-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jim McCoy writes:

L. McCarthy writes:

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Jim McCoy writes:

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Actually this "dumb flamewar" has produced some good discussion regarding actual implementation issues. I beg to differ. If you think that was a good discussion, I'd hate to see what you'd classify as a bad discussion. Crypto relevance was minimal, too. A bad discussion contains very little signal.

Right. We went through dozens of messages to establish that some people like MIME and others don't, just as we did several weeks ago. What a surprise that not much has changed since then. Bleeding wonderful.

The crypto relevance to the MIME discussion was quite apparent to me, it is a shame you missed it.

If it was "quite apparent", it's a shame you didn't make that clearer at the time, rather than claiming it now. I saw plenty of flaming about various people's mailers and net connections. If someone was making points about crypto there, they were doing a damn fine job of hiding it.

Every argument that was used against MIME will one day be used to discourage the widespread use of cryptography.

By this reasoning we should resurrect all the old firestorms about gun control and child pornography. Analogies can be drawn, perhaps, but I don't feel those discussions are appropriate here.

Additionally, MIME is a necessary standard for encapsulating cryptographic messages in a package that can get through some of the stranger transport mechanisms used on the net,

Good standards are good. There's a revelation. Yep, we sure needed dozens of messages to rehash that. Right.

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Everything that has happened with MIME will happen again when people try to add cryptography to the structure of the net. It seems to me that people are *already* trying to add cryptography to the structure of the net, and that would actually be worth discussing. Yeah, like the PGP-MIME draft, which will open up the ability to effectively use PGP to more people than anything the cypherpunks have ever done :)

So why not talk about that instead ?

Standards are important and instead of trying to tilt at windmills to no purpose perhaps it is worthwhile to examine how existing standards can be effectively marshaled towards cypherpunk goals.

Exactly. - - -L. Futplex McCarthy - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.1 iQCVAwUBLvF4X2f7YYibNzjpAQHmKQQAj9Sn16yJw2p52wH5IDca45MR1LYHAt0b YHndPHHD9ktpOgc4aoOBBnduItNgj6Z0hkuMRIoSB/Zy7P+Q11nMIcZwAiiocqlO /DA8pZ6WNEoZ47dUGX7+PrfJLkecJaxaCeZihFqqUUegaqhLSTRa6oX3QCgtXRfW UD4NMJ/mQu0= =feNH - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBLvF5uioZzwIn1bdtAQHi4AGAy25SDZwylW/AWgX1YYPMOEb8BHrilE5V a8SlvxhpX0uEAy0HqfjSIlGfTO7+WpBY =Y17/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----