[TARGET ACQUIRED] Cryptography in France
At 4:46 PM 11/21/1996, Thomas Hennes wrote:
I'm not an anarchist, nor am I illuminated. I'm a regular guy with a regular job. I'm simply tired of all these self-proclaimed important people that live in the fast lane with MY taxes. And crypto would be a mean for me to combat them more efficiently and to bring back some of that much-needed social equilibrium. And, the hell with it, I want GUARANTEED PRIVACY.
Here's our target! France is the perfect testing ground for a top-notch cryptoanarchist system. Lots of computers, lots of smart users, high taxes, and a police state.
At 8:47 AM -0800 11/21/96, John Anonymous MacDonald wrote:
Here's our target! France is the perfect testing ground for a top-notch cryptoanarchist system. Lots of computers, lots of smart users, high taxes, and a police state.
Not likely. I gave a talk a couple of years ago in France (well, Monte Carlo, actually, but the conference was heavily francocentric), and it was clear to me that France is in the Dark Ages on these issues. Sure, they've got "Minitel," an ostensibly ubiquitous network. But Minitel is actually a primitive, sub-Prodigy-class system, controlled by the government of France and associated special interests (France Telecom, etc.). The number of French persons actively on the Internet is fairly low--ask yourself how many ".fr" domain names you've seen lately, and when you last saw one on Cypherpunks? I see many more Finnish and even New Zealand domain names. Further, encryption is heavily restricted in France. As one French friend put it, "You can apply for a license to use crypto--the same way you would apply for a license to buy your own Exocet missile." So, France is somewhere near the bottom of my list of fertile grounds for crypto anarchy. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May wrote:
I gave a talk a couple of years ago in France (well, Monte Carlo, actually, but the conference was heavily francocentric), and it was clear to me that France is in the Dark Ages on these issues.
Not all issues.. France is not in the Dark ages in matters of computer smarts or network connectivity, but...
Sure, they've got "Minitel," an ostensibly ubiquitous network. But Minitel is actually a primitive, sub-Prodigy-class system, controlled by the government of France and associated special interests (France Telecom, etc.).
...but yeah, we suffered from the Minitel at the same time that BBSes were flourishing in the US. Calling the Minitel a sub-Prodigy-class system is, believe me, an insult to Prodigy. The Minitel transmitted at 75 bps in one direction and 300 bps in the other, and -you had guessed it- it was only a matter of state-monopoly France Telecom wanting to make more money whereas they had the technical knowledge to implement a much better system. The Minitel did nothing but delay the arrival of the Internet and other PC-based networks, setting networking in France several years back in terms of technicality and economic opportunity.
The number of French persons actively on the Internet is fairly low--ask yourself how many ".fr" domain names you've seen lately, and when you last saw one on Cypherpunks? I see many more Finnish and even New Zealand domain names.
Don't let this fool you.. A LOT of net users in France do not have the dreaded ".fr" domain. There is quite a number of ".com" and ".net" French users on the Internet. And I am a living example of the fact (this is my real address up there, not a US-based remailer).
Further, encryption is heavily restricted in France. As one French friend put it, "You can apply for a license to use crypto--the same way you would apply for a license to buy your own Exocet missile."
This is sad, because this is true. Which was all the reason why I wrote the original message in that thread.
So, France is somewhere near the bottom of my list of fertile grounds for crypto anarchy.
Why? It is probably easier to implement crypto anarchy in other, more fertile grounds, but the question is, is it more _useful_ ? Thomas Hennes aie-rd@pobox.oleane.com
participants (3)
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nobody＠cypherpunks.ca -
Thomas Hennes -
Timothy C. May