Guy wrote:

Has 'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net' replaced 'cypherpunks@toad.com'?

Apparently it hasn't, because I never got a copy of my own post back. So, here it is again...

From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 16:26:58 1998

Guy <guy@panix.com> claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.

Leaving him with full access to a minimum of three other accounts. Don't cry for him, Ukrainia...

I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and that it is counter productive.

Hey, maybe _you_ would get a warm and fuzzy feeling when Dimitry posts a death threat (including to this list) and signs your name: not me. ! I will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to whomever KILLS ! Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa. ! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on http://www.panix.com/~guy ! ---guy

Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason to go attempting to censor people. Ever heard of a kill file?

Censor? Yeah, and the "Freedom Fighters" who are against any spam cancellation do so because they are fighting "censorship". I don't think so.

As an aside I don't think getting into a dirty tricks contest with Dimitri is a good idea, I am pretty sure Dimitri could win by a large margin if he cared to.

No dirty tricks involved: I complained to PSINet using traffic analysis. If he had simply called me a cocksucker, I would not have complained.

Guy <guy@panix.com> writes:

...

PSINet terminated Vulis for stalking, which I documented he did to a minimum of four people.

What is your working definition of stalking as applied to a mailing list, USENET or email? What are you talking about?

In addition to death threats, forging death threats: he tries to get people fired from their jobs. But Dimitry can't figure out where I work (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA), reducing him to saying I was fired from where I _used to_ work. <snicker> This stalking: attempting to deprive someone of their right to work. ----

From tcmay@got.net Mon Feb 23 17:14:50 1998

At 1:24 PM -0800 2/23/98, Adam Back wrote:

...

Guy <guy@panix.com> claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.

I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and that it is counter productive.

Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason to go attempting to censor people. Ever heard of a kill file?

I agree with Adam. As one who has borne a frontal assault of Vulis' insults and raves, and (in all probability his) ASCII artwork, I dealt with it by filtering as much of it as I could into a trash file.

Oh, great, an independently wealthy person is telling me it's not a problem that a known stalker has posted angrily to this list asking if anyone knows where I work.

In my 10 years of actively being on the Net (though my first ARPANet account was in 1973), I've complained a handful of times to postmasters, and only _once_ because of content. The rest were about spam, mail bombs, etc.

The one content-based complaint I made was about Lawrence Detweiler's attachment of my name to pro-Hitler, anti-Jewish rants he sent to newsgroups like alt.culture.jewish and alt.culture.german.

Then please explain why you agree with Adam, since I decided to complain to PSINet about Vulis stalking me and signing my name to death threats?

If Vulis can have his account yanked for calling Guy a pedophile, what about all those who have called Arthur C. Clarke a pedophile?

Has there been any determination (and what does that mean anyway?) as to whether either Guy or Clarke are pedophiles?

Ahhh, that's the wrong question. Look past your nose. Calling me a pedophile is one part of Vulis' patented style of stalking attacks. Add to that him saying I was fired from consulting work for being a pedophile, asking if anyone knows where I now work, etc: stalking. It wasn't merely him being insulting, but part of a larger Simon-Barr-Sinister pattern of behavior. Certain behavior is not permissible regardless of the venue. Not a direct analogy, but: you would censor (CENSOR! CENSOR!) people who work for you who wanted to speak "Ebonics" on the job. Gosh, how dare you deprive them of their right to free speech!. ----

From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 21:35:47 1998

John Young <jya@pipeline.com> writes:

...

Since Guy's death notice Dimitri's telephone has not answered several tries. The number of his sig: 1-718-261-2013, in Brooklyn across floater bay from here.

Was he whacked as well as unplugged? Or is he hiding from the peds, plotting anthrax terror posing as Jim Kallstrom?

OK, Guy, could you fill us in on what exactly you did to get PSInet to pull Dimitri's plug?

Exactly what I said: I submitted traffic analysis reports ("the big picture") regarding Vulis' stalking activity via PSINet to their legal people. I have previously posted to this list a dejanews URL for an early traffic analysis report on him that I posted to Usenet. It was like that, only more complete and specifically oriented towards getting him spanked.

Did it involve calls to law enforcement?

No. He used an anonymous remailer for the death threat. His personal stalking of me didn't get far before I blew him off PSINet. I'm sure he's learned his lesson. ;-) He's still here, but sulking silently. He's run out of dirty tricks.

Is it likely that your claims would have been relayed by PSI to law enforcement?

Oh, I _wish_ I had that kind of influence. Of course, in the Cryptography Manifesto polemic, I have said not-nice things about law enforcement, as part of complaining about Key Recovery and the general Orwellian state of affairs. Guy's CM: Louis Freeh is a Scary Man with the morals of a styrofoam cup. On the other hand, I do believe most FBI personnel are good people who perform an invaluable service for all of us. Guy's CM: This posting isn't about the many good FBI and other law enforcement people. Gee, could I do a better job of offending both "sides"? ;-)

If you have taken this far enough to get Dimitri into legal trouble, and your claims are untrue, or exaggerated, I think you owe it to Dimitri to try to undo some of this stuff fast!

Hell. Freeze. Over.

What did you tell PSInet?

I documented his stalking behavior via PSINet, documented that he had begun stalking me via PSINet, and stated that if they didn't terminate him and he continued stalking me, I would sue them. And that the traffic analysis report they were holding was what a jury would use to decide PSINet was liable for their continued (after _years_ of people's complaints) inaction. ---guy With Vulis, the best defense is a good offense.