I write this in the hope that it'll finish off the list/newsgroup discussion and with the fear that it will make it worse. "Let the market decide." If you feel that a newsgroup is the right way to go, then start one. If it offers something valuable to current cypherpunks subscribers, they'll read it. Likewise with alternate mailing lists. If you want a crypto-politics list, start one. If it offers valuable material, people will subscribe. Do not presume to dictate to the folks like Eric and Tim who created, and have since nurtured, this list. Build a better mousetrap, and all that. -Paul -- Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG | "Change the world for a better tomorrow. But perobich@ingr.com | watch your ass today." - aaron@halcyon.com Intergraph Federal Systems | Be a cryptography user- ask me how.