Carl Johnson <toto@sk.sympatico.ca> writes:

Alec wrote:

...

How soon can we expect Turkish and Armenian language modules for this beta?

Alec, All of our Turkish programmers are dead. All of our Armenian programmers' keyboards are screwed because of the blood dripping off of their fingers.

You may well be right. Were any of the Azeri civilians murdered by Armenians in Khojaly computer programmers? Are any of their killers presently employed by Earthweb as associate network administrators? _Newsweek_ 16 March 1992 By Pascal Privat with Steve Le Vine in Moscow THE FACE OF A MASSACRE Azerbaijan was a charnel house again last week: a place of mourning refugees and dozens of mangled corpses dragged to a makeshift morgue behind the mosque. They were ordinary Azerbaijani men, women and children of Khojaly, a small village in war-torn Nagorno-Karabakh overrun by Armenian forces on Feb. 25-26. Many were killed at close range while trying to flee; some had their faces mutilated, others were scalped. While the victims' families mourned, Photo: `We will never forgive the Armenians': Azeri woman mourn a victim. _The New York Times_, Tuesday, March 3, 1992 MASSACRE BY ARMENIANS Agdam, Azerbaijan, March 2 (Reuters) - Fresh evidence emerged today of a massacre of civilians by Armenian militants in Nagorno-Karabakh, a predominantly Armenian enclave of Azerbaijan. Scalping Reported Azerbaijani officials and journalists who flew briefly to the region by helicopter brought back three dead children with the back of their heads blown off. They said shooting by Armenians has prevented them from retrieving more bodies. "Women and children have been scalped," said Assad Faradshev, an aide to Nagorno-Karabakh's Azerbaijani Governor. "When we began to pick up bodies, they began firing at us." The Azerbaijani militia chief in Agdam, Rashid Mamedov, said: "The bodies are lying there like flocks of sheep. Even the fascists did nothing like this." Truckloads of Bodies Near Agdam on the outskirts of Nagorno-Karabakh, a Reuters photographer, Frederique Lengaigne, said she had seen two trucks filled with Azerbaijani bodies. "In the first one I counted 35, and it looked as though there were as many in the second," she said. "Some had their head cut off, and many had been burned. They were all men, and a few had been wearing khaki uniforms." _The Sunday Times_ 1 March 1992 By Thomas Goltz, Agdam, Azerbaijan ARMENIAN SOLDIERS MASSACRE HUNDREDS OF FLEEING FAMILIES Survivors reported that Armenian soldiers shot and bayoneted more than 450 Azeris, many of them women and children. Hundreds, possibly thousands, were missing and feared dead. The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending the women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified refugees. The few survivors later described what happened: 'That's when the real slaughter began,' said Azer Hajiev, one of three soldiers to survive. 'The Armenians just shot and shot. And then they came in and started carving up people with their bayonets and knives.' 'They were shooting, shooting, shooting,' echoed Rasia Aslanova, who arrived in Agdam with other women and children who made their way through Armenian lines. She said her husband, Kayun, and a son-in-law were massacred in front of her. Her daughter was still missing. One boy who arrived in Agdam had an ear sliced off. The survivors said 2000 others, some of whom had fled separately, were still missing in the gruelling terrain; many could perish from their wounds or the cold. By late yesterday, 479 deaths had been registered at the morgue in Agdam's morgue, and 29 bodies had been buried in the cemetery. Of the seven corpses I saw awaiting burial, two were children and three were women, one shot through the chest at point blank range. Agdam hospital was a scene of carnage and terror. Doctors said they had 140 patients who escaped slaughter, most with bullet injuries or deep stab wounds. Nor were they safe in Agdam. On friday night rockets fell on the city which has a population of 150,000, destroying several buildings and killing one person. _The Times_ 2 March 1992 CORPSES LITTER HILLS IN KARABAKH (ANATOL LIEVEN COMES UNDER FIRE WHILE FLYING TO INVESTIGATE THE MASS KILLINGS OF REFUGEES BY ARMENIAN TROOPS) As we swooped low over the snow-covered hills of Nagorno-Karabagh we saw the scattered corpses. Apparently, the refugees had been shot down as they ran. An Azerbaijani film of the places we flew over, shown to journalists afterwards, showed DOZENS OF CORPSES lying in various parts of the hills. The Azerbaijanis claim that AS MANY AS 1000 have died in a MASS KILLING of AZERBAIJANIS fleeing from the town of Khodjaly, seized by Armenians last week. A further 4,000 are believed to be wounded, frozen to death or missing. The civilian helicopter's job was to land in the mountains and pick up bodies at sites of the mass killings. The civilian helicopter picked up four corpses, and it was during this and a previous mission that an Azerbaijani cameraman filmed the several dozen bodies on the hillsides. Back at the airfield in Agdam, we took a look at the bodies the civilian helicopter had picked up. Two old men a small girl were covered with blood, their limbs contorted by the cold and rigor mortis. They had been shot. _TIME_ March 16, 1992 By Jill SMOLOWE -Reported by Yuri ZARAKHOVICH/Moscow M A S S A C R E I N K H O J A L Y While the details are argued, this much is plain: something grim and unconscionable happened in the Azerbaijani town of Khojaly two weeks ago. So far, some 200 dead Azerbaijanis, many of them mutilated, have been transported out of the town tucked inside the Armenian-dominated enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh for burial in neighboring Azerbaijan. The total number of deaths - the Azerbaijanis claim 1,324 civilians have been slaughtered, most of them women and children - is unknown. Videotapes circulated by the Azerbaijanis include images of defaced civilians, some of them scalped, others shot in the head. _BBC1 Morning News at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992_ BBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100 bodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot dead from their heads from a very short distance. _BBC1 Morning News at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992_ Very disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were picked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western Journalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women, children, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their heads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies (mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan claimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces. _Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992_ 2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children in civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close as less than 1 meter. _Report from Karabakpress_ A merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small Azeri town of Khojali (Population 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan, is reported to have taken place on the night of February 28 by the Soviet Armenian Army. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been massacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten and shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed the Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian Army. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the Karabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant were killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its sovereignty. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

CORPSES LITTER HILLS IN KARABAKH

Dear Dr.DVK, Thank you for your lengthy list of articles on the human slaughter that continues on earth to this very day. It reminds me of watching the TV coverage of Desert Storm, as the news channels took great delight in replaying scenes of American flyers massacring retreating Iraquian troops who were beaten and bedraggled, merely trying to survive, and get home to their families. Basically, they were slaughtered so that the flyboys and their superiors at the Pentagon could test their new toys, and make sure that they worked. It was considered acceptable action, however, because these were the 'bad' guys. We 'know' that they were, because we were told so by the ten-second sound-bytes of the New World Order during the nightly news. So I listened as millions of Americans cheered the slaughter of defeated troops, who had thrown up the white flag and retreated, only to have us blow them away from out of the sky on their way back home with our wonderful hi-tech weapons. I listened as thousands of Americans, including the media, truly bought into the Pentagon sound-byte that tells us the world is a better place because we can slaughter the soldiers of less-developed countries 'from a distance', using technology, and not 'risk' precious American lives. Of course, missles don't take prisoners, so everyone we make war with has to die, now, don't they. Remember that this is the same Pentagon that built the InterNet. And the same Americans who cheered the slaughter of defeated troops will be lined up to cheer the slaughter of the misfits among us who are culled from the herd through the tracking of their activities and their communications on the InterGlobal communications system of the New World Order. While the vast majority may be enthralled with their pretty, shiny, new toy--the InterNet--and buy into the sound-bytes that portray it as an empowerer of the common man, there are others who have, since its inception, been warning of the 'dark side' of the InterNet. When the New World Order becomes a reality, the main difference between the next holocaust and the last one will be that the misfits and outcasts will have GameBoys to play with during their trip to Auschwitz. There is a quote I remember which struck me deeply when I heard it, but forgive me if it is not quite correct: "They came for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't speak up. They came for the National Socialists, and I wasn't a National Socialist, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. "And nobody spoke up." I don't know Phil Zimmerman. I've never met him and I'd never heard of him, or of cryptography until the fledgling New World Order began their crusade to start culling out the misfits who stuck out glaringly from the common masses by trying to provide them protection from Big Brother and his goons. I didn't know Phil Zimmerman, but I knew his psyche and I knew his motivations. You might say that we went to different high-schools together. So I spoke up. Loudly (and anonymously). And by the time the sun came up the next morning, bleary-eyed and tired, I had a copy of PGP on my hard drive. I had a weapon of self-defence in my possesion that Phil Zimmerman shed his blood for, at the hands of the New Pharisees. You are free to rail night and day against cryptology and cypherpunks, and whoever else it pleases you to rail against, because this is America. But believe me, America is, and will be, a part of the New World Order. Phil Zimmerman's case was not an 'aberration' of 'what is', it was a foreshadowing of 'what is to come'. But there are others, with more foresight, who rail against the real threats to mankind, and to freedom, and they do quietly, and in secret, not wanting to share the fate of Phil Zimmerman and others, who had too high a profile for the New World Order to ignore. These people are not psychic, but they have the foresight to see the future in the shadows of the past, and they will tell you, man, woman, and child, "You will take my cryptography from me when you pry it from my cold, dead algorithms." So, Dr. DV K, rant and rave as much as pleases you, but be careful what you rave against, lest they come for you. And if you feel the net tightening around you, with the forces of the New World Order hovering over you, deeming that now 'you' are becoming a problem, then think about protecting yourself. Think about cryptography. Kindly, Toto p.s -- If you are going to quote 'news broadcasts' from the BBC, etc, then please don't quote the same 'bad syntax' in three consecutive news releases. i.e - "shot dead from their heads" It might give some people reason to wonder if you are authoring these 'news broadcasts' yourself. -- Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two."

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Carl Johnson wrote:

"They came for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't speak up. They came for the National Socialists, and I wasn't a National Socialist, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. "And nobody spoke up."

"They" came for the Jews AND the Nazis? Damn, they wanted to cover all the bases didn't they?

Carl Johnson wrote:

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: Dear Dr.DVK, Thank you for your lengthy list of articles on the human slaughter[snippo] There is a quote I remember which struck me deeply when I heard it, but forgive me if it is not quite correct: "They came for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't speak up. They came for the National Socialists, and I wasn't a National Socialist, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for me. "And nobody spoke up."

As I remember the quote, it ended something like "and they came for me, but there was nobody left to speak up". [mo' snip]

"You will take my cryptography from me when you pry it from my cold, dead algorithms." Think about cryptography.

We're all thinking about it. We just don't believe (naively) that just because someone issues code that was designed 20 years ago, and which the NSA can undoubtedly crack in a heartbeat, that that code can necessarily protect us against all comers. There is a difference between principle and fact. You have the principles exactly correct, but as to facts, you have to be eternally vigilant, i.e., don't get too comfortable with PGP et al.

Dale Thorn wrote:

As I remember the quote, it ended something like "and they came for me, but there was nobody left to speak up".

Dale, Thanks, I love the quote but can't find it or it's source. Perhaps I can put it all together in bits and pieces.

We just don't believe (naively) that just because someone issues code that was designed 20 years ago, and which the NSA can undoubtedly crack in a heartbeat, that that code can necessarily protect us against all comers.

I don't thinkI'm very naieve about cryptography. I fully realize that the same goons that will crack you over the head for what you've written, will also be prone to cracking you over the head for 'not' being able to read what you have written.

There is a difference between principle and fact. You have the principles exactly correct, but as to facts, you have to be eternally vigilant, i.e., don't get too comfortable with PGP et al.

Thanks for the advice. PGP serves me very well for most of my correspondences, but I add a little 'je ne sais quoi' to it for things I consider to be of more personal import. It's probably something that experienced crytptographers would laugh at, but just because I'm not a professional security-alarm designer doesn't mean I'm going to leave my housekey under the front door mat. -- Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca "There's only one two."