-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity calling itself "Phil <hallam@w3.org>" allegedly wrote:
Perhaps someone with US legal experience might care to comment
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
on the enforceability of such a clause.
That's not me, but I have some things to say anyway. If I could figure out how to make DigiCash's SunOS client write money into ASCII files I would attach 2 cybercents to the end of this.
Surely the nature of the relationship is defined by its character and not soley by a contract disclaimer.
I prefer to think that contractual relationships are defined by the explicit stipulations the contract, and the implicit understandings between the two parties (which are unavoidable, since they begin at the semantic or even cognitive level and cannot be described explicitly with our current science/tech, but which should be made explicit wherever possible), and are completely *un*-influenced by the arbitrary opinion of some third organization which happens to own lots of big guns in their geographical regions.
3. The bank accepts no liability for anything going wrong, although it may, at its sole option, attempt to make ammends.
Wouldn't it be convenient if such clauses were enforcable?
Wouldn't be nice if whatever clauses two competent entities agreed to were enforceable? (non-repudiation, reputations, Nick Szabo's "liens"...)
4. Parties agree to wave a jury trial.
5. Parties agree to binding arbitration.
These seem pretty dangerous to me if enforcable. They would effectively usurp the power of the courts as arbiter.
Indeed they do usurp that power, don't they? :-) <I smile happily.> And it's only going to get worse(/better). ((anon)nymity, e-cash, tax evasion, black markets...)
Although I have less confidence in the competence of a jury than that of judges I'm pretty sure that the UK courts would consider such contract clauses in a dim light.
And I, by way of contrast, consider such clauses, which remove business relationships from the realm of violence and into the realm of mutually consensual, organizationally emergent social structures, in a very positive light.
Consumers have votes, they are not afraid of regulation. Forget the pap you see spouted by politicians about deregulation, they simply mean remove the regulations that negatively affect our interests, their supporters are likewise.
And I'm of the opinion that any "regulation" (i.e. threat of force against peaceful parties) negatively affects my interests (all of ours) in the long run. And I too have a vote. Crypto relevance? Much! The overview is that crypto tech will ultimately enable my view of ideal social structure rather than yours. Non-repudiation, e-cash, Nick Szabo's "liens", tax evasion, black markets, (anon)nymity, reputations and (hopefully hopefully) the education/enlightenment of the populace because of powerful non-censorable information access all point this way. Of course, it will be a long, twisted road from here to there (we live in interesting times), but I am ultimately hopeful. I hope this rant is not wholely without value. I do it rarely, so you are safe for another few months now that I have it out of my system. Regards, Bryce signatures follow "To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." <a href="http://ugrad-www.cs.colorado.edu/~wilcoxb/Niche.html"> bryce@colorado.edu </a> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.01 iQCVAwUBMI6P9/WZSllhfG25AQHl9wQAmOWc0PiNbeKaT0Ow1d63g5bdQ2A0417D nXlv3T4olwymwTiB3oWv4t28LPIkKwl2dCm6xLduk1+8z5t7rwZCUYRc91t7ro58 8y6yZOvSRvupKm9IUu5l/Nhmd2uv4TpHQKq11UfCaxUmXdxeZ8AS5RrB1uq51BUM ctATwNuH08c= =WJ/H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- rom owner-cypherpunks Wed Oct 25 12:30:03 1995 Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks> Received: by toad.com id AA28197; Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:30:03 PDT Received: from larry.infi.net by toad.com id AA28174; Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:29:42 PDT Received: by larry.infi.net (Infinet-S-3.3) id PAA04999; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:29:21 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 15:29:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan Horowitz <alanh@infi.net> To: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com> Cc: Ian Goldberg <iang@cory.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>, cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Mandatory ID in California? In-Reply-To: <199510251617.MAA23789@panix.com> Message-Id: <Pine.SV4.3.91.951025152409.3136C-100000@larry.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com Precedence: bulk "States may not authorize arrest...for failing to produce identification..." Kolender v. Lawson 461 U.S. 352 (1983) "...may not compel an answer and they must allow the person to leave after a reasonable brief period of time...." - - ibid California is the Ninth Circuit, no? See, inter alia, Martinelli v. City of Beaumont, 820 F.2nd 1491 (1987). Alan Horowitz alanh@infi.net