I remember seeing a news report a while back that said the number of violent car thefts has increased because more people are using sophisticated car alarms and/or car tracking devices. According to the news report, instead of breaking into cars when the owners were away, car thieves would wait until the owner shows up and deactivates the car alarm. The thieves then pounce on the owner, killing or severely injuring him/her, and take the car. Regardless of the actually magnitude of this problem (the media would call increase of 1 a major new trend) this did get me to thinking. Assume you use strong crypto to protect your secrets. Assume a lot of people start using crypto to protect their secrets. Assume there are people who want to discover these secrets. Might we some day see an increase in the number physical attacks as bad guys resort to rubber-hose methods to get at the keys that protect the secrets? Don't get me wrong, I'm still in favor of using strong crypto. I'm just wondering about some of the social implications. Jim_Miller@suite.com