I was not interested in starting a flame but I seem to have ignited one. I'm sorry about that. Since almost nobody sees these people from big corps as having a conflict of interest by being here I am willing to drop the subject having raised the point. It just seemed funny to me that cypherPUNKS would be so happy to have these fortune 500 types running the show. I guess I see the point that these people have something to contribute as long as they are honest about who they are. I have to say it rubs me wrong though. Like I said I've written a lot of code in my day and many of you are probably running some of it while you read this (enough said). I just don't want to depend on att or netscape to protect me. Even if they do a good job the cost of using their stuff is too high (for example the fine print in that att product). Lets write our own code and gpl it so no one can take it away! s/ Bill Gates