(Duncan's message not included, because I only want to make a brief point.) Not addressed in Duncan's essay was my chief concern: The "National Benefits Card" is required to get license plate tags. (And maybe other things, like car and home insurance, etc.) It's all well and good to talk about disobedience, how the State can't enforce traffic laws and how the "record" of several hundred traffic citations shows this, etc. But how this applies to me is a different matter. To make this concrete, I recently got a speeding ticket--I was late for the Saturday Cypherpunks meeting, ironically. The computer form arrived a week or so ago: pay $130 by such-and-such date (in lieu of contesting the charge), or the fee will roughly double, and then double again, and so on. (I'm not sure of what the limits are, but the fees escalate rapidly). Now my point is this: I plan to pay up, and all the talk in the world about people with dozens or hundreds of citations DOES ME NO GOOD. If I fail to pay, I lose my car insurance (which makes me ripe for a "deep pockets" lawsuit by anyone who gets into an accident with me). Lots of other implications. Very real implications. It may be that scofflaws who are poor have an advantage--no assets to seize, no insurance to worry about, etc. But for folks like me, the notion that such laws can be safely ignored is crazy. (No offense, Duncan, but I read your rant with enjoyment....I just didn't see any connection with the reality I see around me.) I continue to see great dangers here, in tying a national ID card to transactions we are essentially unable to avoid in this society: driving, insurance (and let's not argue insurance...I mean it is unavoidable in the sense of legal issues, torts, etc.), border crossings, etc. As an example we haven't talked about recently, the national ID card would presumably be tied in to income tax filings, in various ways I won't go into here. The Postal Service, aiming to get into this area I guess, has floated the idea of electronic filing, ID systems, etc. Now how will one file taxes without such a card if one is made mandatory for interactions with the government? Saying "taxes are not collectable" is not an adequate answer. They may not be collectible for street punks and others who inhabit the underground economy, but they sure are for folks like me. I see nothing in Duncan's essay that applies to me. And that's what worries me about the move toward national ID systems and complete traceability of all economic interactions. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."