A few more comments for tmp (hit delete if you don't want to know): " isn't what we *really* want a more basic definition of what is allowed and what is not? besides, under the cypherpunk vision, operators would never censor a user for postings-- but is it the case that all cypherpunks can say they have never tried to censor anyone by notes to sysadmins,........?" . Isn't it true that what we really want is a way to defend ourselves or find relief from a disruptive or discomfitting effect? If the capacity to do this (defending) is built into a system, and everyone involved is aware of how it can be applied, then it should be expected that it *will* be used; no one who has a means for relief can be expected to restrain themselves from employing it when they feel there is sufficient cause. At some point it becomes a matter of self-preservation. "the cypherpunk vision seems to split the world into two groups: those people i trust (my friends) and everyone else (whom i completely distrust withintense paranoia). this is a very xenophobic and chauvinistic philosophy at heart." . However, there is no mandate to subscribe to any particular attitude on the net, especially among a group of strangers who are not constrained to remain in contact. " it seems to me to be the case that either `i know who you are' or i don't. what does it mean for me to `know who you are'?" . And why, one might ask oneself, should I care? "the important goal is `defining what privacy really means' and cypherpunks seem to take the position, `it means that nobody knows anything about me'. our society simply cannot function under this constraint." . But society is barely functioning anyway, under all of the present constraints. It would function better if more of these were removed, and everyone's "true self" were allowed to manifest itself; this would also present greater opportunities to deal with underlying problems which otherwise cannot be resolved and only lead to unfriendliness & suspicion. "if i wish to `interconnect', identity is necessary to minimize risk to the people i `interconnect' with." . This is true, but it is also true that anyone who agrees to interconnect must realize that they are taking a risk, and that they cannot default on the responsibility they have assumed by participating. Blanc