Alan Bostick wrote: ...
But it _doesn't_ quack like a duck; it hoots like a loon. Credit cards aren't fungible like cash, they aren't anonymous like cash*, they don't operate like cash from the cardholder's point of view, and they don't operate like cash from the merchant's point of view.
I'm beginning to think the ideas of money, instruments, clearing, etc., are confusing to a lot of us. Part of it is that various objects have mix-ins from other classes. Part of it is that the legal system has its own rules. Etc. For example, I tend toward Amanda's point of view, that credit cards "quack like a duck." When I make a purchase with my credit card, and the thing clears, both the merchant and I act as if we've just exchanged money. (In fact, one of my "credit cards," with the little Visa symbol, etc., is actually a "debit card"...when I use it, money is taken _immediately_ out of my account. I assume--but don't know for sure--that the merchant's account is credited quickly, if not immediately. Anyway, there are many forms of "money," with many things that make the forms "money-like." It's be nice if we could chart out all these forms, see the critical things that factor in, etc. Has such an analysis been done? (Especially kept current, with all the various new forms, new rules, new laws.)
*I don't see any reason why a credit card couldn't be anonymized, with some kind of "Julf-style" bank account and an any-bearer-gets-to-use-this card. People might want some kind of PIN protection if they're concerned about losing the card. But the banks haven't chosen to offer such a thing, and they just aren't available.
This has come up several times. I'll let others recount what they know. The consensus about major banks not offering "anonymous cards" is that two factors are at work: 1. The public has not yet woken up and asked for a card which _obscures_ their purchases. (Some people were proposing that we try to convince American Express, as an example, to issue a "Privacy Card.") 2. Truly anonymous cards, like bank accounts in false names, are not encouraged in the U.S. Things like Social Security numbers, IRS reporting requirements (interest paid, for example), etc., all make truly anonymous cards pretty rare. (Even the "cash deposit" cards are not anonymous.) Of course, I'm not saying one can't find ways to get credit cards issued under assumed identities. It probably happens a lot. But this is a different issue, I argue. There could be a legal way to issue true "cash credit cards," similar to the cash-charged-up phone cards, but I have no idea what would be needed. Offshore-based cards may still be the best bet, as several folks (the usual suspects) have noted; a bank in the Caymans issuing a Visa card, for example. (Though the "Frontline" report on money-laundering mentioned ATM and credit card "scams" as a way to launder money that was being stopped, so...) --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tcmay