Uhh. When I started this thread with "Cyberspace is by nature crime-free," I meant crime as what at least _I_ perceive as morally wrong enough to justify the intervention of society as a whole, usually represented by functionaries of the state - police, judiciary, etc.; and NOT what may or not be wrong in the eyes of existing law, which as we all know, is an ass. Unless we want a totally "everyone for him/herself" society (which is contradictory - society is a framework or protocol by which individuals interact with each other), and become like Rwanda, say, we need the intervention of [police/state/society/collective] to ensure that basic social agreements are kept - thou shalt not rape, for instance. Even anarchist Tim May has in previous posts conceded the possible need for a police force to investigate murders. Now to cyberspace... I greatly believe in the Internet as a model for society. While there are incompatibilities between a society on cyberspace and one on the streets, what is needed is an adaption of cybersociety to the "real world" NOT vice versa. Out of all 'crimes' listed in previous posts by Matthew Gream and others, the only one I accept as possibly requiring society intervention in the information age is that of intellectual property. The extent of such intervention is debatable. I will summarize my attitude to the other points with this: saying that cracking an ordinary Unix system is fraud is like saying that walking into a field protected perhaps by a tattered hedge is 'breaking in.' Unless you want a nanny state, you have to protect yourself, and your rights. Unless you want a jungle, you have to accept intervention by agents of the society you live in, when protection is far to difficult for an individual. You expect police help to catch a murderer. You don't expect police help to catch someone who stole money that fell out of your torn pocket. (_I_ don't.) Continued... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh They came for the Jews, and I was silent because I was not a Jew; rishab@dxm.ernet.in They came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not protest, because I did not Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 belong to a trade union; Voicemail +91 11 3760335 They came for the Catholics, and I said nothing because I was not a Catholic; H 34C Saket And then they came for me. New Delhi There was no one left to say anything... INDIA ----Father Niemoeller