my only comment on Sun's non-portable software is that it **used-to-be** a case of excessive Berzerkely attitude. Solaris is an effort, and a very credible effort to meet industry and consumer standards. The code is compatible to Sys V R4, and on x86 implementations will execute Sys V R4 binaries, as well as SCO binaries which opens that whole set of markets (software availability). at the Solaris 2.1 and 2.2 levels, Sparc Solaris and X86 Solaris were not even compatible to each other. I just took 200K+ lines of code from a Sys V package and ported it to both Sparc and X86 Solaris 2.4 --perfect. The code also had defines for 4.2+ BSD --those also compiled. Take your pick. Sun got the message on standards; their respone was to meet both; and, they have done a good job of it. Secondly, there is no such thing as bug-free code --that's like free-lunch and it's all relevant. Which would you rather have? patches available on the net, or be forced to upgrade to new bugs with MS plus a few more overkill features. Again, my point is: why bad mouth Sun? This is what has fractured UNIX in the market place and gives the MS assholes the ability to not only stomp UNIX with reviews which always ask "...which flavour of UNIX is it this month?" but, even worse, it gives Gates an opportunity to set YET ANOTHER **PROPRIETY** MS STANDARD --that does not run securely with the mainline. Do you wish to give Microsoft, whose intentions have never waivered from getting a piece of every transaction in the world, **complete** control over everything? on every desktop? In other words, do you want to see Microsoft, and possibly only Microsoft/Intel, in the marketplace. Network managers complained about the Ray Noorda cult, but wait until everybody is forced to join the Bill Gates cult. SUN is not the enemy; MS is. Do you wish to live with MS who, according to the head cultist, **never** issues a maintenance release since the software does not have bugs. Just updates, **expensive** updates, which fix some bugs, add a few overkill features, and introduce new bugs. Is there any really good software for **applications** on UNIX at even close to windows compatible prices --let alone the wealth of material available. Sure WABI gets the main productivity pieces, but PagerMaker and Corel are frozen at Version 5 for WABI. Personally, I use OS/2 as the front end to my Suns; OS/2 is likewise frozen at W3.1 level software --but at least WinOS2 does not crash my entire system or network. I want some of the features in the W95 versions of Corel and Pagemaker, such as HTML --they will never be made available for either OS/2 of UNIX. In other words, we need to stop bitching, and start supporting the alternative systems --constructively. It all comes back to software, and even us techo-freaks, or whatever we are with the long hair blowing all over, need to think about the people who want a simple answer and MS gives the glitter --if we do not help sustain the alternatives, we will not even have the luxury of decent hardware. Even GNU has a W95 and an NT **full pack**.