Speaking of phone records and such, btw, AT&T keeps phone records for quite a long time. About half a year or so my girlfriend visited her relatives in Hong Kong and I called her there to save them some major money. A few months ago, I get a letter/offer from AT&T saying that I could save over xxx% on calls to HK, Taiwan, etc... Now, I'm a white boy and my name would give them absolutely no hint of having relatives or friends in Hong Kong. Obviously they keep records for waaaay far back, and keep them in use!!! If they use'em for advertising, you can bet they use them for other shady "law-enforcement" type info for cops, etc.... That's a fairly strange conclusion to draw. In fact, I was originally going to use a much stronger word than ``strange'', but I forbore to change my standing policy against flames. Why, pray tell, do you think that because AT&T uses its own information, that it gives it to the government? For one thing, that would be illegal, as I read the law. 18 USC 2703(c)(1)(A) specifically prohibits giving out records of subscriber information to government agencies, except in reponse to a subpoena, warrant, or court order. (Oddly enough, it is permissible to give out the information to non-government agencies; if I recall correctly what I've read of the legislative history of the act, that was specifically intended to permit compilation and sale of mailing lists and marketing data.) For another, it isn't at all clear to me that it's in any way unethical for a company to understand which of its products its customers buy. *Selling* such data is another matter -- I don't like that at all -- but that isn't what you're claiming. You also say that AT&T is not using racial data or certain names to pick out markets. All you're saying is that you once called Hong Kong, and that AT&T is now offering you a cheaper way to do so. What's wrong with that? (Btw -- half a year is not at all a long time. That's only very slightly longer than they'd need to keep the data just to resolve billing questions.) --Steve Bellovin Disclaimer: Obviously, I work for AT&T. That doesn't mean I like everything the company does -- but in this case, I fail to see the offense.