Cyphertentacles, Here's a posting I made yesterday to the Extropians list, describing the Detweiler situation. Yes, even they have heard of L. Detweiler and his new prominence as a Net.Loon of note. So when some folks asked for an explanation, I sat down and wrote up a summary of the situation. Here it is: ***from the Extropians list (with a quote from that list excised, as they have rules about forwarding list traffic, except one's own, of course)*** I'll descend into the depths of Detweiler's mad world for a bit to answer some questions raised by John Clark. Detweiler is actually a fascinating case history in Net paranoia....we actually have gotten to see the birth of a Net.loon like McElwaine or Serdar Argic, a Net.loon who is already famous. He makes anybody we've seen on the Extropians list look like a Minor Perversion (apologies to Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep") by comparison. Antics like his are why postive reputation filters are needed so urgently, not just on mailing lists like Cypherpunks, but throughout Cyberspace. (The Extropians list software, with ::excludes, is sorely needed on Cypherpunks. Various things are holding up the transfer of this. I have suggested to Harry that one approach is to set up "mailing list servers" that support this software, as a profit-making venture.) Anyway, here's the saga of Lawrence Detweiler, aka S. Boxx and a dozen other such names. --quote from John Clark removed-- Lawrence Detweiler, sometimes called Larry and sometimes called Lance (which may be a mistake, one he never corrected until recently) is a guy who's about 22-23 who lives in Colorado, having recently graduated from Colorado State U. in Computer Science. Don't know what his career is now, if he has one. He joined the Cypherpunks list about a year ago and showed great enthusiasm and energy, volunteering to write the FAQ on "Anonymity on the Internet" and "Privacy and Anonymity." He put this out very quickly (too bad he's crazy and can't do the same for the Cypherpunks FAQ, which I have recently agreed to write, or the Extropians FAQ, about which I'll say no more). Detweiler was, like I said, very energetic, often writing very long rants against Clipper, Dorothy Denning, etc. He often got angry with someone and slipped into insulting them as being duplicitous, malicious, etc., instead of merely ascribing their different opinions as being just that. He asked for my help several times in getting his views accepted by the Cypherpunks, and I tried to get him to tone down his ad hominem attacks and general rants (he was always prone to writing agonized prose, such as "I am becoming increasingly disgusted and completely and thoroughly disenchanted by the nauseatingly waffling on vital issues by the Cypherpunks High Command."--this is not something he actually wrote, but my attempt to duplicate his style). His FAQs are very well-done, if a bit long, and tell us there's a glimmer of brilliance beside the madness....the two often go together, so this is hardly surprising. By last summer, Detweiler was handing out "Cypherpunks of the Week" awards, was arguing for his own form of electronic democracy (one person one vote, to be done on a daily basis on all sorts of issues....needless to say, many of us disagreed with him), and was generally ranting and raving. When I stated my disagreement with his electronic democracy idea as being the main goal of the Cypherpunks--and this was done in a mild, objective manner--Detweiler spat venom at me and accused me of being an agent of some government agency. His paranoia and rancor increased steadily throughout September and by October he had become "S. Boxx" and other pseudonyms, using his "an12070" account to argue about "pseudospoofing" and "tentacles of the Medusa." He apparently decided that I, for example, was using a variety of fake names, including Nick Szabo, Hal Finney, Geoff Dale (yes, the very same folks you all know from _this_ List!), to drive him crazy and to argue against his points. Thus, if Nick Szabo argues against electronic democracy AND has a Netcom account, as I do, then it's obvious: szabo@netcom.com is obviously a "tentacle" of tcmay@netcom.com! What could be more obvious? This all increased, with Detweiler launching daily rants against me, Eric Hughes, and others. He demanded apologies "or else." He demanded statements from the "Cypherpunks High Command" that we no longer "pseudospoof." He appealed to John Gilmore to "put a stop to this pseudospoofing," but John was in Nepal on a trek and didn't respond. When John eventually returned, he replied in a calm manner and suggested that Detweiler was mistaken. True to form, Detweiler went ballistic at this "betrayal" and declared Gilmore to be just another "Big Mac." (In DetSpeak, many new terms exist. Those of us who appeared on the cover of "Wired" (issue 1.2), Eric, John, and me, are "Big Macs." Other Cyperhpunks are "cheeseburgers." Of course, we are also "TENTACLES" and "SNAKES" of Medusa. Sometimes Detweiler refers to _me_ as Medusa, other times he imputes to "her" the role of coordinating the Grand Conspiracy to a) drive him crazy, b) spread the Cryptoanarchist message, and c) corrupt all of Cyberspace with Lies. He also drifts into Christian rants about Hell, Satan, God, and Damnation. Keeping track of his shifting terminology is a chore.) He asked to be removed from the Cypherunks list, and was, but continued to post to it (blindly). He created his own group, the "Cypherwonks" list, with a fascist list of rules and regulations about true identities, the evils of pseudospoofing, etc. I gather from reports that it is now moribund. (I didn't join, for obvious reasons, not even under a "tentacle"--which I don' even have, needless to say). Ironically, but hardly surprisingly, the very thing Detweiler rails against so much, "pseudospoofing," is precisely what he is most famous for! I'm sure a psychologist would have a field day with him. Detweiler issued death threats, saying he would be visiting the Bay Area to "kill the tentacles." He mostly did this under his an12070 name, though he often confused the identities and made several telling slips which confirmed to even the doubters that L. Detweiler = an12070 = S. Boxx = Pablo Escobar = Adolf Hitler, all names he has used for his paranoid rants. (Other evidence: same line lengths, same use of TeX-style ``quotes'' in messages, same use of no spaces between initials in names like "T.C.May," same florid languages, same emphasis on same issues, and, most tellingly of all, several "goofs" in which private messages to one or the other were quoted by the other, and even goofs within messages that alluded to himself as "Lance" or "Larry.") And so it goes. He has been posting his "CRYPTOANARCHIST INVASION ALERT"-type messages to several Usenet groups for the last couple of months, and has recently gone even further in the direction of madness. I expect one day to hear Detweiler has shot and killed himself, or has shot and killed others, or is holding them hostage. I know the Colorado Cypherpunks group--which expelled Detweiler from their physical meetings and from their list--is fairly concerned about their security, and the security of Phil Zimmermann, who lives in Colorado and whom Detweiler alternately characterizes as "God" or as "Satan." After the latest rounds of forged messages, with my name attached and with .sig block attached, I alerted Julf, operator of the anon.penet.fi site, to the obvious "abuse" of his remailer site....I didn't do this when Detweiler was ranting, only when he was sending out posts which gave the appearance of being from _me_. No an12070 messages have been seen by me for several days now, and Detweiler has made comments about how S. Boxx "told him" that his account has been stopped. Yeah, right. So that's the saga of L. Detweiler, the latest Net Perversion to be born in cyberspace. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power:2**859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available.