A professor at my University forwarded a transcript of the Larry King Live episode to me and I thought I'd give it to the cypherpunks to chew on.... Boy, Andy Grove really let me down.... ---------- From: David Farber <farber@central.cis.upenn.edu> To: interesting-people mailing list <interesting-people@eff.org> Subject: Larry King Live - you be the judge Date: Friday, June 17, 1994 2:51PM Subject: Larry King Live - you be the judge Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 12:08:32 -0400 From: Stephen Walker <steve@tis.com> CNN REPORT - LARRY KING: CLIPPER CHIP June 15, 1994 extracts from panel on Information Superhighway PANEL INCLUDES: Vic Sussman - U.S. News & World Report Andy Grove - Intel Corporation Vice President Al Gore Chairman of the FCC Vic Sussman: The Clipper Chip is essentially, I should let the Vice President tell you, but the Clipper Chip is essentially, the simplest way to think about it is it's a way of encrypting or making phone conversations private and they will be private for anyone. Your neighbor will not be able to listen in on your phone conversations. However,.. Larry King: They can now? Vic Sussman: They can now, but they won't with the Clipper Chip. However, the government that is law enforcement has to have a trap door so they can get in and listen to what, you know, legal wire taps. The problem is, and I can't believe I'm sitting next the Vice President and saying this, the fact is this thing is loathed by everyone outside of government. Now, I'll let Andy talk. Larry King: Loathed? Vic Sussman: Loathed and despised. Yes, the Clipper Chip. Larry King: First, we will get Andy before the gang up begins. Andy, what do you think of the Clipper Chip? Andy Grove: The reason I was laughing is because the issues of the Clipper Chip are the arcane of the arcane and discussing it with the respectable technical community that you have on your show and yourself is a little bit like discussing the technical merits of a speed trap. Larry King: Why the neanderthal here? Why? Andy Grove: Uh, the Clipper Chip is an implementation. One particular implementation of the government's right to tap digital information. The government has had the right to tap analog information. The kind of information that is taking place between you and me and on the phone. The government has that right. Larry King: Under different lines? Andy Grove: Pardon? Larry King: Under different lines and circumstances? Andy Grove: They have to get a warrant, but they can tap it. Now just because the information goes digitally, I don't see the difference. The government for its own law enforcement needs should be able to tap digital information just as well as they have had the right to tap analog information forever. Chairman of the FCC: This isn't really the FCC he is talking about. This is law enforcement issues. Larry King: Do you believe that? (to Vic Sussman) Vic Sussman: Well, I'm a reporter. I'm just reporting what people are saying. What people are saying is that it is going to be hard to find any software manufacturers, any computer manufacturers, any telecommunication people who support this outside of the administration. V.P. Al Gore: This is a much misunderstood issue Larry, It is an issue that quickly becomes very emotional. There are a lot of people who think that the government's ability to go to court and get a warrant and try to track down a terrorist or drug dealer, whatever, Uh, ought to be just shut off if communication is digital. Now, I'm stating the case a little parjodially but that really is what is at stake. Think of a future in which you have a world trade center bombing thirty years from now with a nuclear device or a threat of a nuclear device being exploded in an urban area or some other mass terror. Do we want to live in a world where the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are prevented from being able to do their jobs. Now, the government should not have the right (Gore laughs) to tap communication unless there is a legal proceeding in which there is a due cause, in which evidence is presented, in which a court says, "Look alright, you have presented enough evidence to meet the burden of proof, legally there is sufficient cause to allow you to conduct this criminal investigation." Larry King: We have run out of time. ------- End of Forwarded Message These opinions are mine and do not in any way represent the opinions of Microsoft Corporation, its employees, or stockholders.