Bob Hettinga writes:
Immediate and final clearing must save money, somehow, but right now, it's hard to prove whether cash is still king in cyberspace. I have a (somewhat religious, in the sense that it may not be empirically proved in my lifetime) belief that that's the case. That's why I like to agitate for a test. Yes, Tim, I know, you guys aren't bankers...
Don't let me stop you, Bob! My main objection is not to anyone going ahead and trying something (why should I object to that?), but to two themes which often seem to go together: 1. Proselytizing for some kind of group project. Exhorting others to "do something!" 2. An underestimation of the task ahead. A failure to absorb the work already done, and a failure to see the work still needed. An assumption that the task at hand is the _selling_ of digital cash as a concept. Now if Bob or anyone else can pull of digital cash, can convince some bank to do a fairly major launch, fine. He or they will be famous. I adopted this "politely skeptical" stance a year or so ago when I hear about the efforts by Hughes, Abraham, Sandfort, and Frissell to do some version of a digital bank. Ditto for the Austin group's plans to do a new type of credit union. This list has seen many proposals for many systems. Most don't go anywhere, which is hardly surprising, given the lack of funding, the serious technical, regulatory, and market resistance issues. Note to All Readers Tired of this Issue: I think this'll be my last response in a long while on this issue. Those who wish to build RemailNet (tm), First Internet Bank (tm), Digibux Depository (tm), or e$ Savings and Loan (tm) should certainly proceed. But statements of plans, or exhortations that Cypherpunks should all pull together on one of these plans, are less impressive to me--and I suspect to others--than some tangible progress such as we saw with remailers, with PGP, with message pools, and with thoughtful articles on the important protcols (such as we saw tonight with Hal's posting on the Stefan Brands scheme). I don't think any of us on this list is yet ready to present a plan to real bankers. Eric Hughes has told me he agrees. I don't know what Hal or the others think, but the issues surrounding digital cash are still sufficiently murky at this point to make a plan to deploy digital cash premature. I see several ways around this: 1. The research groups centered around Chaum, with other CWI folks like Brands having other approaches, will be likely centers of expertise. Not surprising. Of relevance because this is where the impetus will be concentrated. 2. I can imagine a financial entity (bank, brokerage, etc.) having a working group looking into this. As a research project, as a way of keeping current on something important. 3. Digital cash may come out of left field, sort of analogous to the way hypertext is arriving unexpectedly from the Mosaic/Web developments (done by a small group, fairly quickly). What I can't see is a bunch of us going to a bank and "shmoozing" with them and then having them see the light. Maybe Bob sees things differently. Maybe he's right. Who knows. What I know is that changing the world by exhortation is usually a hopeless task. Examples work much better. Cypherpunks write code. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."