From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 00:39:25 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 04:39:25 -0300 Subject: What happened to Pond? In-Reply-To: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> References: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> Message-ID: <574e9140.8667370a.c2c19.48e0@mx.google.com> On Sun, 29 May 2016 13:58:05 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > You need a telephone number to use that Whisper Systems stuff, right? Dont worry, you can use an android phone and get the app. Those phones are super secure. Androido is based on free linux! And google is the flagship of western, liberal, democratic capitalism. They don't be no evil. > > Setting up Pond servers isn't hard. A friend is working on a how-to. > > But then there's the Panda exchange server :( > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 00:43:49 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 04:43:49 -0300 Subject: A promising method to thwart global surveillence In-Reply-To: <574B0EDD.7040000@pilobilus.net> References: <5748671B.5060906@pilobilus.net> <1415723331.464091.1464366125503.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <574B0EDD.7040000@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <574e9249.0ac48c0a.c3ed8.6423@mx.google.com> On Sun, 29 May 2016 11:46:37 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > > Hiding arbitrary data inside media files by flipping bits is likely to > fool a human observer, but unlikely to pass through a stego detection > filter without tripping an alarm. How? Audio and video have noise. You replace the natural noise with your 'noise'. How can an observer tell if he's looking at noise inherent in audio/video signals or at encrypted, noise-like data? > > :o) > > > From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 1 10:29:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:29:31 -0700 Subject: All your disk image are (forever) belong to us, says appeals court In-Reply-To: <207f3121-0306-79c1-3289-f424f0a65edf@cajuntechie.org> References: <207f3121-0306-79c1-3289-f424f0a65edf@cajuntechie.org> Message-ID: <574F1B7B.1000203@riseup.net> On 05/31/2016 09:19 AM, Anthony Papillion wrote: > "We own your ass and there is nothing you can do about it" That's right, and 'Mericans wouldn't know what to do unless they were pwned: You're free to speak your mind my friend As long as you agree with me Don't criticize the father land Or those who shape your destiny 'Cause if you do You'll lose your job your mind and all the friends you knew We'll send out all our boys in blue They'll find a way to silence you But there's nothing you and I can do You and I are only two What's right and wrong is hard to say Forget about it for today We'll stick our heads into the sand Just pretend that all is grand Then hope that everything turns out ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SeUqDjPeP0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jun 1 10:29:54 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 13:29:54 -0400 Subject: A promising method to thwart global surveillence In-Reply-To: <574e9249.0ac48c0a.c3ed8.6423@mx.google.com> References: <5748671B.5060906@pilobilus.net> <1415723331.464091.1464366125503.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <574B0EDD.7040000@pilobilus.net> <574e9249.0ac48c0a.c3ed8.6423@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <574F1B92.4070901@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/01/2016 03:43 AM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 29 May 2016 11:46:37 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: > > >> >> Hiding arbitrary data inside media files by flipping bits is >> likely to fool a human observer, but unlikely to pass through a >> stego detection filter without tripping an alarm. > > > How? Audio and video have noise. You replace the natural noise with > your 'noise'. How can an observer tell if he's looking at noise > inherent in audio/video signals or at encrypted, noise-like data? Short answer: Statistical analysis; naturally occurring noise and noise introduced from a "random" source (i.e. encrypted data) and/or at random positions in the data stream are quantifiably different. Longer answer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganalysis Longest answer: Stenography & watermarking vs. detection of same is an ongoing arms race, with substantial advantages on the attacker's side . Example of do-it-yourself steganalysis: http://stegsecret.sourceforge.net/ :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXTxuSAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqgucH/RnqAr2Ac+QjNyR6rDN/vI3m z2wu3YgnfujgKyXqcCBY1YB8bcwHL8YBqfe6MOg4HxToSxb8wpNvKF1qS1YQ+3JG 5y7uMPVzEF4XM/cdzuspZXl06x7gdV8sJNHRsuyxxWaKzvB1zf04XaKkE9wGWm85 8fenFtQbTaQXnn1BhO+93yOjXf61W8Q+F8Fg9h/g7a6jYYjQqmCgGeED9Q4DkIfh Rui4eYRUhAC2uDa8ckvLDWUcEcHXi1eFyqEOVnmk+B0wXPXulsz8SxOvet6Igznl k4DuezjkMKbAsF4gtNmcqgQsrbeDfXmwM1/xjO8d2DKcg82jk6Veb99d35QQfzs= =DwpB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 21:13:10 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 00:13:10 -0400 Subject: Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now Message-ID: https://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-uk-is-using-bulk-interception-to-catch-criminalsand-not-telling-them https://conspicuouschatter.wordpress.com/2016/02/03/a-technical-reading-of-the-himr-data-mining-research-problem-book/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2702948-Problem-Book-Redacted.html Researchers have speculated that GCHQ may have the capability to deanonymise Tor users by examining the timing of connections going in and out of the Tor network. ... there is clear evidence that timing information is both recognized as being key to correlating events and streams; and it is being recorded and stored at an increasing granularity. There is no smoking gun as of 2011 to say they casually de-anonymize Tor circuits, but the writing is on the wall for the onion routing system. GCHQ at 2011 had all ingredients needed to trace Tor circuits. It would take extra-ordinary incompetence to not have refined their traffic analysis techniques in the past 5 years. The Tor project should do well to not underestimate GCHQ’s capabilities to this point. ... one should wonder why we have been waiting for 3 years until such clear documents are finally being published from the Snowden revelations. If those had been the first published, instead of the obscure, misleading and very non-informative slides, it would have saved a lot of time — and may even have engaged the public a bit more than bad powerpoint. http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-uk-will-police-the-dark-web-with-a-new-task-force https://blog.torproject.org/blog/traffic-correlation-using-netflows Prediction market (place your bids): "First networks utilizing fill traffic as TA countermeasure to emerge and reach early deployment by year end 2017..." From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 1 22:32:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 05:32:20 +0000 Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? Message-ID: Can this be done? For example, this quote and "case" reference, should have some context: "Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be decided." [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250] How do I find the document containing that quote? That quote and reference can be found by google on many sites in many documents, but only as the quote - the full source document/ ruling would provide the context, which would be more useful. Some examples of URLs with the above quote (besides many others): http://freedom-school.com/lewis-mohr/bowden-petition-and-challenge-to-jurisdiction.pdf http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/how-beat-any-court-case http://thegetjusticecoalition.blogspot.com/2007/05/cp-6.html From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 1 22:36:38 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 05:36:38 +0000 Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's a massive list of quotes etc: http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/files/lawnotes/Jurisdiction.txt Attached is my version where I got rid of the many duplicates and tidied it up a bit. If you want the .odt version just holler - it's 78KiB. -------------- next part -------------- JURISDICTION 1. JURISDICTION. [Bouvier's Law, 1856 Edition] A power constitutionally conferred upon a judge or magistrate, to take cognizance of, and decide causes according to law, and to carry his sentence into execution. 6 Pet. 591; 9John. 239. 2. JURISDICTION. [Black's Law 4th edition, 1891] It is the authority by which courts and judicial officers take cognizance of and decide cases. 3. "Trial court acts without jurisdiction when it acts without inherent or common law authority, ..." [State v. Rodriguez, 725 A.2d 635, 125 Md.App 428, cert den 731 A.2d 971,354 Md. 573 (1999)] 4. "Trial court acts without jurisdiction when it acts without inherent or common law authority, nor any authority by statute or rule." [State v. Rodriguez, 725 A.2d 635, 125 Md.App 428, cert den 731 A.2d 971,354 Md. 573 (1999)] 5. "No judicial process, whatever form it may assume, can have any lawful authority outside of the limits of the jurisdiction of the court or judge by whom it is issued; and an attempt to enforce it beyond these boundaries is nothing less than lawless violence." [Ableman v. Booth, 21 Howard 506 (1859)] 6. "Once challenged, jurisdiction cannot be ‘assumed’, it must be proved to exist." [Stuck v. Medical Examiners, 94 Ca2d 751.211 P2s 389] 7. "Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be decided." [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250] 8. "No sanction can be imposed absent proof of jurisdiction" [Stanard v. Olesen, 74 S. Ct.768] 9. "The law requires proof of jurisdiction to appear on the record of the administrative agency and all administrative proceedings" [Hagans v. Lavine, 415 U.S. 528] 10. Other cases also such as McNutt v. G.M., 56 S. Ct. 789,80 L. Ed. 1135, Griffin v. Mathews, 310 Supp. 341, 423 F. 2d 272, Basso v. U.P.L., 495 F 2d. 906, Thomson v. Gaskiel, 62 S. Ct. 673, 83 L. Ed. 111, and Albrecht v U.S., 273 U.S. 1, also all confirm, that, when challenged, jurisdiction must be documented, shown, and proven, to lawfully exist before a cause may lawfully proceed in the courts. 11. "If any tribunal finds absence of proof of jurisdiction over person and subject matter, the case must be dismissed." [Louisville R.R. v. Motley, 211 U.S. 149, 29 S. Ct. 42] 12. Civil Rights... "Civil action for deprivation of rights, 28 U.S.C 1343, gives U.S. District court original jurisdiction. When it clearly appears that the court lacks jurisdiction, the court has no authority to reach the merits. In such a situation the action should be dismissed for want of jurisdiction. [Melo v. US, 505 F2d 1026, 1030] 13. “However late this objection has been made, or may be made in any cause, in an inferior or appellate court of the United States, it must be considered and decided, before any court can move one further step in the cause; as any movementis necessarily the exercise of jurisdiction.” Rhode Island v. Massachussetts, 37 U.S. 657, 718, 9L.Ed. 1233 (1838) 14. “It is most true that this Court will not take jurisdiction if it should not: but it is equally true, that it must take jurisdiction if it should. The judiciary cannot, as the legislature may, avoid a measure because it approaches the confines of the constitution. We cannot pass it by because it is doubtful. With whatever doubts, with whatever difficulties, a case may be attended, we must decide it, if it be brought before us. We have no more right to decline the exercise of jurisdiction which is given, than to usurp that which is not given. The one or the other would be treason to the constitution. Questions may occur which we would gladly avoid; but we cannot avoid them. All we can do is, to exercise our best judgment, and conscientiously to perform our duty. In doing this, on the present occasion, we find this tribunal invested with appellate jurisdiction in all cases arising under the constitution and laws of the United States. We find no exception to this grant, and we cannot insert one.” [Cohens v. Virginia, 19 U.S. 264, 404, 5 L.Ed. 257, 6 Wheat. 264 (1821)] 15. Where there is no jurisdiction over the subject matter, there is, as well, no discretion to ignore that lack of jurisdiction. [John J. Joyce v.United States of America, 474 F.2d 215, 219] 16. "The burden shifts to the court to prove jurisdiction." [Rosemondv. Lambert, 469 F2d 416]. 17. "Court must prove on the record, all jurisdiction facts related to the jurisdiction asserted." [Lantanav. Hopper, 102 F2d 188; Chicagov. New York, 37 F Supp 150]. 18. "Because Federal courts are limited in jurisdiction, the presumption is that it is without jurisdiction unless the contrary affirmatively appears." Grace v. American Central Insurance Co., 109 U.S. 278 19. "Special provision is made in the Constitution for the cession of jurisdiction from the states over places where the federal government shall establish forts or other military works. And it is only in these places, or in territories of the United States, where it can exercise a general jurisdiction" [New Orleans v. United States, 35 U.S. (10 Pet.) 662 (1836)] 20. "... Federal jurisdiction cannot be assumed, but must be clearly shown." [Brooks v. Yawkey, 200 F. 2d 633] 21. "All legislation is prima facie territorial" [American Banana Co. v. U.S. Fruit, 213, U.S. 347 at 357-358] 22. "There is a canon of legislative construction which teaches Congress that, unless a contrary intent appears [legislation] is meant to apply only within territorial jurisdiction of the United States." [U.S. v. Spelar, 338 U.S. 217 at 222] 23. "the United States never held any municipal sovereignty, jurisdiction, or right of soil in Alabama or any of the new states which were formed ... The United States has no Constitutional capacity to exercise municipal jurisdiction, sovereignty or eminent domain, within the limits of a state or elsewhere, except in the cases in which it is expressly granted ..." [Pollard v. Hagan, 44 U.S.C. 212, 221, 223] 24. "Absent required colloquy by magistrate judge, language printed on consent form was not sufficient to inform defendant of his rights under statute allowing defendant charged with misdemeanor to waive trial before district judge and to elect trial before magistrate judge, where the relevant portion of the consent form was three sentences long, and only one of the sentences addressed defendant's right to an Article III judge." [U.S.C.A. Const. Art. 3, sec. 1 etseq; 18 U.S.C.A. sec 3401(b); FRCrP 58(b)(2), (b)(3)(A), 18 U.S.C.A. U.S. v. Gochis 196 F.R.D. 519 (2000)] 25. "Court may always raise question of subject matter jurisdiction on appeal and in courts below." [U,S. v. Prestenbach, 230 F.3d 780 (2000)] 26. "Courts can always consider questions as to subject matter jurisdiction whenever raised and even sua sponte." [U.S. v. White, 139 F.3d 998 cert den 119 S.Ct 343,525 U.S. 393,142 L.Ed.2d 283 (1998)] 27. "Jurisdiction over a defendant requires both personal and subject matter jurisdiction." [Boles v. State, 717 So.2d 877 (1998)] 28. "Courts acquire authority to adjudicate matter if they have both subject matter and in personam jurisdiction." [McKinney's CPL v. sec. 1.20 subd. 9. -- People v. Marzban, 660 N.Y.S.2d 808,172 Misc.2d 987 (1997)] 29. "Subject matter jurisdiction is determined from pleadings." [Hall v. State, 933 S.W.2d 363, 326 Ark. 318, 326 Ark. 823 rehearing denied (1996)] 30. "In its most fundamental or strict sense, 'jurisdiction' means an entire absence of power to hear or determine the case, an absence of authority over the subject matter or the parties, but the term may also refer to the situation where a court that has jurisdiction over the subject matter has no power to act except in a particular manner, or to give certain kinds of relief, or to act without the occurrence of certain procedural prerequisites; action 'in excess of jurisdiction' by a court that has jurisdiction in a fundamental sense is not void, but only voidable." [People v. Burnett, 83 Cal.Rptr.2d 629, 71 Cal.App 151 (1999)] 31. "Judgment made when the court lacks subject matter jurisdiction is void." [Clark v. State, 727 N.E.2d 18, transfer denied 741 N.E.2d 1247 (2000)] 32. "In a criminal action, the trial court must not only have jurisdiction over the offense charged, but over the question which the judgment presumes to decide." [State v. Kraushaar, 957 P.2d 1106, 264 Kan. 667] "Information is the only vehicle by which a court obtains and has limits placed on its jurisdiction." -Id (1998) 33. "Court lacked jurisdiction over defendant charged with possession of loaded firearm such as would enable it to entertain defendant's motion to dismiss indictment on ground that diplomatic immunity created legal impediment to his conviction, where defendant failed to appear in court to be arraigned on accusatory instrument." -Id 34. "In legal prosecution, all legal requisites must be complied with to confer jurisdiction on the court in criminal matters, as district attorney cannot confer jurisdiction by will alone." [People v. Page, 667 N.Y.S.2d 689,177 Misc.2d 448 (1998)] 35. Where the court is without jurisdiction, it has no authority to do anything other than to dismiss the case." Fontenot v. State, 932 S.w.2d 185 "Judicial action without jurisdiction is void."-Id (1996) "Jurisdiction means the power of a court to hear and determine a cause, which power is conferred by a constitution or a statute, or both." [Penn v. Com. 528 S.E.2d 179, 32 Va.App. 422 (2000)] 36. "A court cannot acquire jurisdiction to try a person for an act made criminal only by an unconstitutional law, and thus, an offense created by an unconstitutional statute, is no longer a crime and a conviction under such statute cannot be a legal cause for imprisonment." [State v. Benzel, 583 NW.2d 434, 220 Wis.2d 588 (1998)] 37. "Jurisdiction is determined solely from face of information or indictment." [State v. Lainez, 771 So.2d 617, and Snyder v. State 715 So.2d 367, review denied 727 So.2d 911 (2000)] 38. "As a prerequisite for presiding over a case, a court must have jurisdiction over the subject matter of an offense and of the person of the defendant; that is, two jurisdictional requirements must be satisfied before a court has authority to hear and determine a particular cause of action." [Malone v. Com., 30 SW.3d 180 (2000)] 39. "Lack of subject matter jurisdiction is a non-waivable defect which may be raised at any stage of the proceedings." [State v. LaPier, 961 P.2d 1274,289 Mont. 392,1998 MT 174 (1998)] 40. "Ruling made in absence of subject matter jurisdiction is a nullity." [State v. Dvorak, 574 N.W.2d 492,254 Neb. 87 (1998)] 41. "If the trial court is without subject matter jurisdiction of defendants case, conviction and sentence would be void ab initio." [State v. Swiger, 708 N.E.2d 1033, 125 Ohio.App.3d 456, dismissed, appeal not allowed, 694 N.E.2d 75, 82 Ohio St.3d 1411 (1998)] 42. "Before a court may exercise judicial power to hear and determine a criminal prosecution, that court must possess three types of jursdiction: jurisdiction over the defendant, jurisdiction over the alleged crime, and territorial jurisdiction." [Const. Art. 1 sec. 9, State v. Legg, 9 S.W.3d 111 (1999)] 43. "Without jurisdiction, criminal proceedings are a nullity." [State v. Inglin, 592 N.W.2d 666, 274 Wis.2d 764 (1999)] 44. "Criminal subject matter jurisdiction is the power of the court to inquire into charged crime, to apply applicable law, and to declare punishment." [W.SA Const. Art. 7, sec. 8; W.S.A. 753.03, State v. West, 571 NW.2d 196,214 Wis.2d 468, review denied 579 NW.2d 44, 216 Wis.2d 612 (1997)] 45. "Municipal courts do not have jurisdiction to render final judgments on felony charges." [Muhammad v. State, 998 SW.2d 763, 67 Ark.App 262 (1999)] 46. "Circuit courts have exclusive original jurisdiction over all misdemeanors which arise out of the same circumstances as a felony also charged." [State v. Coble, 704 So.2d 197 (1998)] 47. "Circuit court has no jurisdiction to try misdemeanors in the absence of a felony." [Short v. State 767 So.2d 575 (2000)] 48. "State Constitution establishes exclusive jurisdiction over felony cases in the superior court." [State v. Sterling, 535 S.E.2d 329, 244 Ga.App. 328 (2000)] 49. "There was no merit to defendant's contention that district court lacked subject matter jurisdiction over him because his crime did not take place on federally owned land and the 10th Amendment reserved drug prosecutions such as his to the states." [U.S.CA Const. Amend. 10, Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970, sec. 401 (a), 406, 21 U.S.CA secs 841(a), 846. U.S. v. Deering 179 F.3d 592, cert. den. 120 S.Ct 361,528 U.S. 945,145 L.Ed.2d 283 (1999)] 50. "Whether or not the government takes out the interstate commerce element of an offense has no effect on the district court's subject matter jurisdiction. [U.S. v. Degan, 229 F.3d 553, 2000 Fed. App 367P. (2000)] 51. "Federal criminal jurisdiction is limited to cases involving activities specifically made criminal by either Federal Constitution or Congress." [U.S. v. Corona, 934 F.Supp. 740, affirmed in part 108 F.3d 565 (1996)] 52. "Under 'effects doctrine,' a sovereign only possesses jurisdiction to prosecute a crime when, inter alia, the effect within the territory is substantial." [U.S. v. Woodward, 149 F.3d 46, cert. den. 119 S.Ct 1026, 525 U.S. 1138, 143 L.Ed.2d 37 (1998)] 53. "Under the theory of 'territorial jurisdiction,' jurisdiction to subject the accused to criminal prosecution rests in the courts of the state in which the crime is committed." [State v. Liggins, 557 N.w.2d 263, denial of post conviction relief confirmed 2000 WL 1827164 (1996)] "Territorial jurisdiction is an essential element of a crime, and a state is required to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt." -Id 54. "Territorial jurisdiction" is question of state's power to prosecute and punish accused for crime and must be proven beyond reasonable doubt." [People v. al-Ladkani, 647 N.Y.S.2d 666, 169 Misc.2d 720 (1996)] 55. "Jurisprudence of personal jurisdiction in civil matters has no bearing on question whether a person may be brought to a State and tried there for crimes under that State's laws." [In re Vasquez, 705 N.E.2d 606, 428 Mass. 842 (1999)] 56. "Where the law provides method for acquiring jurisdiction over defendant in criminal action, as by indictment of grand jury, that method must be strictly pursued to acquire jurisdiction." [People v. Page, 677 N.Y.S.2d 689,177 Misc.2d 448 (1998)] 57. "If defendant enters plea of not guilty and is in court on day of trial, the court has jurisdiction over his person." [State v. Waters, 971 P.2d 538, 93 Wash.App 969 (1999) "Subject matter jurisdiction may not be conferred on a federal court by stipulation, estoppel, or waiver." U.S. v. Burch, 169 F.3d 666. (1999)] 58. "Power of courts to proceed, i.e., their jurisdiction over the subject matter, cannot be conferred by mere act of litigant, whether it amounts to consent, waiver, or estoppel, and hence the lack of such jurisdiction may be raised for the first time on appeal." [People v. Lopez, 60 CaLRptr.2d 511, 52 CaLAppAth 233 (1997)] 59. "Jurisdiction can not be conferred to court by agreement of parties." [Akins v. State, 691 So.2d 587 (1997)] 60. "Lack of jurisdiction cannot be cured by consent or waived by entry of a guilty plea; doctrine of waiver cannot be effective when court lacks jurisdiction over the case itself." [Harrell v. State, 721 SO.2d 1185 rehearing denied, review dismissed 728 SO.2d 205 (1998)] 61. "Party cannot stipulate to jurisdiction when court lacks it." [Sterling v. State, 682 SO.2d 694 (1996)] 62. "Where no cognizable crime is charged, the court lacks fundamental subject matter jurisdiction to render a judgment of conviction, i.e. it is powerless in such circumstances to inquire into the facts, to apply the law, and to declare the punishment for an offense." [Robinson v. State, 728 A.2d 698, 353 Md. 683 (1999)] 63. "Parties cannot confer subject matter jurisdiction upon judicial tribunal by either acquiescence or consent; nor may subject matter jurisdiction be created by waiver, estoppel, consent, or conduct of parties." [State v. Trevino, 556 NW.2d 638, 251 Neb. 344 (1996)] 64. "Appearance ticket is not accusatory instrument and its filing does not confer jurisdiction over defendant." [People v. Gabbay, 670 N.Y.S.2d 962, 175 Misc.2d 421 appeal denied 678 N.Y.S.2d 26,92 N.Y.2d 879, 700 N.E.2d 564 (1997)] 65. "Service of an appearance ticket on an accused does not confer personal or subject matter jurisdiction upon a criminal court." [People v. Giusti, 673 N.Y.S.2d 824, 176 Misc.2d 377 (1998) "No valid conviction can occur if the charging instrument is void." State v. Wilson, 6 S.W.3d 504 (1998)] 66. "Threshold issue of whether court has jurisdiction to resolve pending controversy is fundamental and cannot be ignored; accordingly, court may sua sponte address issue, as subject matter jurisdiction cannot be conferred by agreement of parties, but must be vested in court by constitution or statute." State v. Roberts, 940 SW.2d 655, on remand 1997 WL334879. (1996) 67. "While superior court lacks authority to try a defendant for a felony charged by information with an offense not previously subjected to a preliminary hearing, violation of this limitation on the superior court's power would constitute action in excess of jurisdiction, waivable error, and not non-waivable subject matter jurisdiction." [People v. Burnett, 83 Cal.Rptr.Zd 629, 71 Cal.App.ath 151 (1999)] 68. "Criminal law magistrates have no power of their own and are unable to enforce any ruling." [V.T.C.A., Government Code sec. 54.651 et seq., Davis v. State, 956 S.W.2d 555 (1997)] 69. "A court's authority to exercise its subject matter jurisdiction over a case may be restricted by Failure to comply with statutory requirements that are mandatory in nature and, thus, are prerequisite to court's lawful exercise of that jurisdiction." [Moore v. Com., 527 S.E.2d 406, 259 Va. 431 (2000)] 70. "Only Congress can make an act a crime, affix punishment to it, and declare court that shall have jurisdiction." [U.S. v. Beckford, 966 F.Supp. 1415 (1997)] 71. "... the states are separate sovereigns with respect to the federal government" [Heath v. Alabama, 474 U.S. 82] From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 1 23:36:10 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 06:36:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <529396451.3496197.1464849370682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> There is a good site for Supreme Court cases:    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/home  A good case on jurisdiction is   https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/96-643   "Steel Co. v. Citizens for a Better Environment". (1998)From the syllabus (which is not part of the actual decision): "(b) This Court declines to endorse the “doctrine of hypothetical jurisdiction,” under which several Courts of Appeals have found it proper to proceed immediately to the merits question, despite jurisdictional objections, at least where (1) the merits question is more readily resolved, and (2) the prevailing party on the merits would be the same as the prevailing party were jurisdiction denied. That doctrine carries the courts beyond the bounds of authorized judicial action and thus offends fundamental separation-of-powers principles. In a long and venerable line of cases, this Court has held that, without proper jurisdiction, a court cannot proceed at all, but can only note the jurisdictional defect and dismiss the suit. See, e.g., Capron v. Van Noorden , 2 Cranch 126; Arizonans for Official English v. Arizona, 520 U. S. ___, ___. Bell v. Hood ,supra ; National Railroad Passenger Corp. v. National Assn. of Railroad Passengers, 414 U. S. 453; Norton v. Mathews, 427 U. S. 524;Secretary of Navy v. Avrech, 418 U. S. 676 (per curiam); United States v. Augenblick, 393 U. S. 348; Philbrook v. Glodgett, 421 U. S. 707; and Chandler v. Judicial Council of Tenth Circuit, 398 U. S. 74, distinguished. For a court to pronounce upon a law’s meaning or constitutionality when it has no jurisdiction to do so is, by very definition, an ultra vires act. Pp. 8–17."            Jim Bell From: Zenaan Harkness To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 10:32 PM Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? Can this be done? For example, this quote and "case" reference, should have some context: "Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be decided." [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250] How do I find the document containing that quote? That quote and reference can be found by google on many sites in many documents, but only as the quote - the full source document/ ruling would provide the context, which would be more useful. Some examples of URLs with the above quote (besides many others): http://freedom-school.com/lewis-mohr/bowden-petition-and-challenge-to-jurisdiction.pdf http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/how-beat-any-court-case http://thegetjusticecoalition.blogspot.com/2007/05/cp-6.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 17525 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 08:32:45 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:32:45 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> Message-ID: On 6/2/16, juanjo wrote: > Something like this is what I feared when days ago I sent a message to > this list... If you allow Tor Browser to have all hops from the same > country, or the Tor network relies only on a few countries to host their > nodes (Germany, US, France) then Tor will be useless soon... > > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-May/040991.html True regarding physical or network compromise of nodes, however that is single purpose and not very efficient attack. Instead, this is traffic analysis by GPA's and cooperating GPA's. They have their illegal, unethical, multipurpose mass surveillance network taps all over the planet. Even if your path was from Canada in (to Venezuela to China to Russia out) to Mexico, they don't have to have taps in any of those countries, only on transit that has visability of the IP's / points of interest, typically just the endpoints. There's nothing you can do about it but - start researching and using networks that use fill traffic - shut down those GPA's and their activities against you It is those out of control self aware self preserving entities with their secret games interpretations etc, that will lessen, chill, and tax at your overall life, not random criminals running about. Background on public tech... http://betanews.com/2016/05/26/microsoft-facebook-underwater-transatlantic-marea-data-cable/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/how-the-internet-works-submarine-cables-data-centres-last-mile/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 09:29:05 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:29:05 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> Message-ID: On 6/2/16, Allen wrote: > Another alternative would be to re-architect the services of interest to > use a message or packet store-and-forward protocol with a random delay to > thwart traffic analysis. Perhaps different terms for same derivative thing? >From other searchable and recent threads... Fill traffic needs store and forward with random delay, for low latency requirements it could be called reclocking with jitter, rearchitecting for higher latency adds additional bounds on time to the interval and jitter clocks. Packet / message oriented / UDP seems useful to remove constraints of TCP-in-TCP allowing for management of fill traffic, multipath traffic spreading, pluggables, and so on. Ineffective is say rearchitecting web "services" to deliver a tarball of a website for offline reading, if said delivery is over a traditional non fill network, it will be TA'd. Fill / chaff seem needed, otherwise in an all wheat network, input traffic on one side seems to match output traffic on the other side at some point, regardless of storage / delay. Fixed packet sizes seem to help. Fill ratios up to 100% utilization can mask the wheat. Minimum fill is amount needed for plausible deniability that single input can't be mapped to a single output. ie: 10MiB in, must have at least two outputs that received 10MiB. Is there any group / list that is actively researching or developing such networks? Or that wants to? From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 2 10:29:10 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 13:29:10 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> Message-ID: <57506CE6.1080308@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/02/2016 12:29 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/2/16, Allen wrote: >> Another alternative would be to re-architect the services of >> interest to use a message or packet store-and-forward protocol >> with a random delay to thwart traffic analysis. > > Perhaps different terms for same derivative thing? It seems to me that high capacity routers would take a performance hit from the number crunching and caching requirements of semi-anonymizing all network traffic. A proposal to redo the whole Internet in some such protocol would be hard to sell. People who "want" some measure of privacy are willing to make cost and performance trade-offs proportional to their motivation; but bulk data carriers and large hosting providers are more interested in shaving fractional pennies off data transactions than in end user privacy. > Fill / chaff seem needed, otherwise in an all wheat network, input > traffic on one side seems to match output traffic on the other side > at some point, regardless of storage / delay. How much of the network can an adversary see, vs. how big a performance hit do you need to take to reduce your profile? Dummy traffic makes matching the ends of a hidden path orders of magnitude harder, so the numbers crunched and bandwidth consumed might be an overall performance tradeoff win. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXUGzmAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfgcH+QFak6wq83axLkDPVT7DQ2tK KbG5G/oaNdIijsv6iDGXeTw9c2HNB8LM16hFsZYvwAI4SECNn/b8knjxyS2xe4or qLI1GbTB/8dyO7rotIq9ZNzoJYL1HExYA/glMKO0dJZk3+6z4M/E6tE8y/aFlZ5N iYH7PcWpVypg9UFlAXpdVrqzaILD10hqi5w97rWFEAsJ7PZrdmQZn8mkzfHXq6Jh 0Q1c6G1P10MR5paNq8HMEcN7JJA7YBiTkjJrsrBdTcn0Qiskpqa4J2olqWBBLPvN wq4V84ArIcX8YvHTwXpUGIEuzafrxxMYlez4j/Kg4QvnJQsbahkl1+QJXgdUuJY= =Ol35 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jun 2 14:35:17 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 15:35:17 -0600 Subject: What happened to Pond? In-Reply-To: References: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> <574e9140.8667370a.c2c19.48e0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5750A695.9000307@riseup.net> On 06/02/2016 01:55 PM, realcr wrote: > Androido! > This mail has made my day :) Yes, well Juan is spot on, for sure :) That's why we want to keep Pond as an option. Regardless of what statists say. > On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 10:39 AM, juan wrote: > >> On Sun, 29 May 2016 13:58:05 -0600 >> Mirimir wrote: >> >>> >>> You need a telephone number to use that Whisper Systems stuff, right? >> >> Dont worry, you can use an android phone and get the app. Those >> phones are super secure. Androido is based on free linux! And >> google is the flagship of western, liberal, democratic >> capitalism. They don't be no evil. >> >> >> >>> >>> Setting up Pond servers isn't hard. A friend is working on a how-to. >>> >>> But then there's the Panda exchange server :( >>> >> >> > From z9wahqvh at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 13:36:26 2016 From: z9wahqvh at gmail.com (z9wahqvh) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:36:26 -0400 Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? In-Reply-To: <529396451.3496197.1464849370682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <529396451.3496197.1464849370682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: these are widely available without charge, including the actual Court documents. the Cornell site JB mentions is excellent. Wikipedia typically has a link to the full text of every major case and many minor ones if they have a page for the case (which they usually do). Justia has most Supreme Court and many other Federal court decisions at http://law.justia.com/cases/. and then there is the Court itself, where you can use the general search box or the fuller search here: http://www.supremecourt.gov/search_center.aspx. as long as you have the names of the litigating parties it's easy to find the whole text. I think currently they have all decisions from the late 1990s as separate PDFs, and earlier ones are contained in bound volumes, so you need to download the year's volume for the case you have and then search the litigant names. On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 2:36 AM, jim bell wrote: > There is a good site for Supreme Court cases: > https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/home > > A good case on jurisdiction is > https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/96-643 "Steel Co. v. > Citizens for a Better Environment". (1998) > From the syllabus (which is not part of the actual decision): > > "(b) This Court declines to endorse the “doctrine of hypothetical > jurisdiction,” under which several Courts of Appeals have found it proper > to proceed immediately to the merits question, despite jurisdictional > objections, at least where (1) the merits question is more readily > resolved, and (2) the prevailing party on the merits would be the same as > the prevailing party were jurisdiction denied. That doctrine carries the > courts beyond the bounds of authorized judicial action and thus offends > fundamental separation-of-powers principles. In a long and venerable line > of cases, this Court has held that, without proper jurisdiction, a court > cannot proceed at all, but can only note the jurisdictional defect and > dismiss the suit. See, e.g., *Capron *v. *Van Noorden *, 2 Cranch 126; *Arizonans > for Official English *v. *Arizona, *520 U. S. ___, ___. *Bell *v. *Hood *, > *supra *; *National Railroad Passenger Corp. *v. *National Assn. of > Railroad Passengers, *414 U. S. 453 > ; *Norton *v. > *Mathews, *427 U. S. 524 > ;*Secretary of > Navy *v. *Avrech, *418 U. S. 676 > *(per curiam); > United States *v. *Augenblick, *393 U. S. 348 > ; *Philbrook *v. > *Glodgett, *421 U. S. 707 > ; and *Chandler * > v. *Judicial Council of Tenth Circuit, *398 U. S. 74 > , distinguished. For > a court to pronounce upon a law’s meaning or constitutionality when it has > no jurisdiction to do so is, by very definition, an *ultra vires *act. > Pp. 8–17." > > Jim Bell > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Zenaan Harkness > *To:* cypherpunks at cpunks.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 1, 2016 10:32 PM > *Subject:* How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? > > Can this be done? > > For example, this quote and "case" reference, should have some context: > "Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be > decided." [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250] > > How do I find the document containing that quote? > > That quote and reference can be found by google on many sites in many > documents, but only as the quote - the full source document/ ruling > would provide the context, which would be more useful. > > Some examples of URLs with the above quote (besides many others): > > http://freedom-school.com/lewis-mohr/bowden-petition-and-challenge-to-jurisdiction.pdf > http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/how-beat-any-court-case > http://thegetjusticecoalition.blogspot.com/2007/05/cp-6.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 14674 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jahlove at riseup.net Thu Jun 2 12:55:34 2016 From: jahlove at riseup.net (Jah Love) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:55:34 +0000 Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? In-Reply-To: <529396451.3496197.1464849370682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <529396451.3496197.1464849370682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57508F36.8050605@riseup.net> I hate google, but for non Supreme Court cases you can use scholar.google.com and click "case law" and do a search. It seems like the source you got that quote from messed up because the proper citation is Maine v. Thiboutot, 448 U.S. 1, 100 S. Ct. 2502, 65 L. Ed. 2d 555 (1980). Also, that quote isn't found in that ruling. https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=683186685758382033 Another option is to go to a county or state law library and use WestLaw Next or Lexis Nexis for free to do a search for the cases you want. WestLaw has a button that lets you email the court rulings to yourself. jim bell: > There is a good site for Supreme Court cases: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/home > A good case on jurisdiction is https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/96-643 "Steel Co. v. Citizens for a Better Environment". (1998)From the syllabus (which is not part of the actual decision): > "(b) This Court declines to endorse the “doctrine of hypothetical jurisdiction,” under which several Courts of Appeals have found it proper to proceed immediately to the merits question, despite jurisdictional objections, at least where (1) the merits question is more readily resolved, and (2) the prevailing party on the merits would be the same as the prevailing party were jurisdiction denied. That doctrine carries the courts beyond the bounds of authorized judicial action and thus offends fundamental separation-of-powers principles. In a long and venerable line of cases, this Court has held that, without proper jurisdiction, a court cannot proceed at all, but can only note the jurisdictional defect and dismiss the suit. See, e.g., Capron v. Van Noorden , 2 Cranch 126; Arizonans for Official English v. Arizona, 520 U. S. ___, ___. Bell v. Hood ,supra ; National Railroad Passenger Corp. v. National Assn. of Railroad Passengers, 414 U. S. 453; Norton v. Mathews, 427 U. S. 524;Se c retary of Navy v. Avrech, 418 U. S. 676 (per curiam); United States v. Augenblick, 393 U. S. 348; Philbrook v. Glodgett, 421 U. S. 707; and Chandler v. Judicial Council of Tenth Circuit, 398 U. S. 74, distinguished. For a court to pronounce upon a law’s meaning or constitutionality when it has no jurisdiction to do so is, by very definition, an ultra vires act. Pp. 8–17." > Jim Bell > > > From: Zenaan Harkness > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 10:32 PM > Subject: How to download the full ruling of USA Supreme Court cases? > > Can this be done? > > For example, this quote and "case" reference, should have some context: > "Jurisdiction, once challenged, cannot be assumed and must be > decided." [Maine v. Thiboutot, 100 S. Ct. 250] > > How do I find the document containing that quote? > > That quote and reference can be found by google on many sites in many > documents, but only as the quote - the full source document/ ruling > would provide the context, which would be more useful. > > Some examples of URLs with the above quote (besides many others): > http://freedom-school.com/lewis-mohr/bowden-petition-and-challenge-to-jurisdiction.pdf > http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/how-beat-any-court-case > http://thegetjusticecoalition.blogspot.com/2007/05/cp-6.html > > > > From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jun 2 11:01:07 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:01:07 +0300 Subject: Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160602180107.GB2348@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 12:13:10AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > deanonymise Tor users by examining the timing of connections going in > and out of the Tor network. > ... isn't this well known, especially if they inject delays in suspects (or say districts)? From realcr at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 12:55:17 2016 From: realcr at gmail.com (realcr) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 22:55:17 +0300 Subject: What happened to Pond? In-Reply-To: <574e9140.8667370a.c2c19.48e0@mx.google.com> References: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> <574e9140.8667370a.c2c19.48e0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Androido! This mail has made my day :) On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 10:39 AM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 29 May 2016 13:58:05 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > > > > You need a telephone number to use that Whisper Systems stuff, right? > > Dont worry, you can use an android phone and get the app. Those > phones are super secure. Androido is based on free linux! And > google is the flagship of western, liberal, democratic > capitalism. They don't be no evil. > > > > > > > Setting up Pond servers isn't hard. A friend is working on a how-to. > > > > But then there's the Panda exchange server :( > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 21:06:37 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 00:06:37 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> Message-ID: On 6/2/16, Allen wrote: > another alternative would be random packet sizes, ie, the packet size > transmitted to the next hop would not be the same as the size received What does this help / enable? Nodes are known to GPA's, there is no way to hide them. If GPA counting physical packets, over time period, bytes into a relay must equal bytes out, otherwise they're being dropped somewhere, which is inefficient... as opposed to temporarily reducing fill to cover wheat demand. There is up to %50 capacity loss with random sizes, requiring up to 2x higher packet / interrupt rates to compensate within the same pipe / cpu. And the code to do all the carving, queuing and reassembly of every single packet, more complex and costly than padding the last carrier packet of some layer. There is also to consider... - physical / logical paths and pathing - circuit, packet, label, or flow switching - what layers the fill is in (above, at, or below wheat), the layers managed at, and by who. Big challenge is figuring how the network self manages the fill system to dynamically make room for wheat demand wherever it is needed in the network. (That dynamic is also what makes the user apparent application performance roughly the same as non fill networks. Of course their NIC (or their configured anonymous network rate limit within that), is always saturated, but that's transparent to the application layer.) If that's all solved fill traffic might be a good defense to Global *Passive* Adversary, and even a fair one to a Global *Traffic Flow Perturbing Active* Adversary. (What evidence is there that Global Adversaries that are not partnered with Global Telecoms are able to, as opposed to simply listening, arbitrarily drop / inject / delay packets on the global backbones?) Designing something new, including fill, crypto, and anonymity... probably far harder than putting tor's basic design together was. On the other hand, there's now 15 more years of research, experience and components on hand to throw at it. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:07:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:07:23 -0400 Subject: Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: <20160602180107.GB2348@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160602180107.GB2348@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On 6/2/16, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 12:13:10AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: >> deanonymise Tor users by examining the timing of connections going in >> and out of the Tor network. >> ... > > isn't this well known, especially if they inject delays in suspects (or > say districts)? On global backbones... Inject / drop / delays require a complete fiber cut and insertion of active hardware capable of selecting traffic. A carrier that cares about such things must not ignore their line diagnostics. If you had insane alien tap tech capable of precise timing, invading wavelengths, and faster-than-subject-fiber processing and transmission... dropping could be done without cut by laser corrupting CRC / addresses with gain hits or losses, whiteout, etc... injection is similar, delay is drop and injection. Adversaries couldn't do sneaky blackbag shit to the fiber if carriers would encrypt all their links, like Google now says it does internally. All bets are off if the carrier is partner with, or under threat of, adversary... regarding global telecoms (remember Qwest), this paragraph seems the most likely of all the above. Continental, regional, district... more or less the same thing. On the last hop mile RJ-45 of a suspect end user... childs play, and they're fucked at that point anyways. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:43:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:43:59 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: <8d3f6f22-8ea0-2c1f-dc0b-0e73617cce34@gmail.com> References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> <8d3f6f22-8ea0-2c1f-dc0b-0e73617cce34@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/2/16, Aymeric Vitte top posted without trimming: > Yes: https://github.com/Ayms/node-Tor#convergence > > Let's imagine that one Tor circuit reaches a P2P network (here browsers) > and is splitted between different peers (UDP) circuits before > reasynching to a relay or end point, then the reconciliation from the > source to the end point is quite unlikely >> Is there any group / list that is actively researching >> or developing such networks? Or that wants to? If I remember right you're doing file caching / serving in the browsers-as-torrent-nodes layer. Yes that asynchronous would seem to break end to end timing. But the 654321012 byte file "into one tor circuit" from user at one end would still count same bytes out to a "reasynching end point" user at the other end. (Or users plural if requested by more than one user). Between otherwise relatively quiet endpoints / users. If they are all shuffling around encrypted bits fulltime, without being driven to do so by end user demand, such that the start and stop of the bytes of the poster and requestor[s] can't be delineated, that looks more generally like the fill traffic. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 00:02:02 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 03:02:02 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: <20160603052227.2C0D5120070@fleegle.mixmin.net> References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> <20160603052227.2C0D5120070@fleegle.mixmin.net> Message-ID: On 6/3/16, StealthMonger wrote: > This stuff has been in daily use since the last millennium. The links > below are out of date but should get you started. Anonget looks interesting. Seems better if used over an anonymizing network to help de-identify use of the particular applictions anonget and nntp. Perhaps be aware of submitting relatively very much longer lists of URL's than everyone else if it does not break up both the submission before sending, and the posting by hsub to a.a.m. If not already, posting could maybe use --throw-keyids and no hsub. Did not see server code, or look closely at it all yet. From StealthMonger at nym.mixmin.net Thu Jun 2 22:22:27 2016 From: StealthMonger at nym.mixmin.net (StealthMonger) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 06:22:27 +0100 (BST) Subject: [tor-talk] Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: (grarpamp@gmail.com's message of "Thu, 2 Jun 2016 12:29:05 -0400") References: <574FF7BF.1020604@avanix.es> Message-ID: <20160603052227.2C0D5120070@fleegle.mixmin.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 grarpamp writes: > Fill / chaff seem needed, otherwise in an all wheat network, > input traffic on one side seems to match output traffic on the > other side at some point, regardless of storage / delay. > Fixed packet sizes seem to help. > Fill ratios up to 100% utilization can mask the wheat. > Minimum fill is amount needed for plausible deniability > that single input can't be mapped to a single output. > ie: 10MiB in, must have at least two outputs that > received 10MiB. This stuff has been in daily use since the last millennium. The links below are out of date but should get you started. > Is there any group / list that is actively researching > or developing such networks? Or that wants to? See usenet newsgroup alt.privacy,anon-server - -- -- StealthMonger Long, random latency is part of the price of Internet anonymity. anonget: Is this anonymous browsing, or what? http://groups.google.ws/group/alt.privacy.anon-server/msg/073f34abb668df33?dmode=source&output=gplain stealthmail: Hide whether you're doing email, or when, or with whom. mailto:stealthsuite at nym.mixmin.net?subject=send%20index.html Key: mailto:stealthsuite at nym.mixmin.net?subject=send%20stealthmonger-key -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.9 iEYEARECAAYFAldQ2XwACgkQDkU5rhlDCl7KWwCeImYXWb+tWLOd4GT6g/8PLDFM /1wAoK0Wl1r418g7JN8nmegEj058hHH1 =1Sdo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jun 3 11:45:22 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 14:45:22 -0400 Subject: Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now In-Reply-To: References: <20160602180107.GB2348@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5751D042.3070802@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/03/2016 01:07 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/2/16, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 12:13:10AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: >>> deanonymise Tor users by examining the timing of connections >>> going in and out of the Tor network. ... >> >> isn't this well known, especially if they inject delays in >> suspects (or say districts)? > ... > All bets are off if the carrier is partner with, or under threat > of, adversary... regarding global telecoms (remember Qwest), this > paragraph seems the most likely of all the above. > > Continental, regional, district... more or less the same thing. > > On the last hop mile RJ-45 of a suspect end user... childs play, > and they're fucked at that point anyways. Anonymized routing protocols are designed to defeat passive observation and limited traffic manipulation by hostile actors. But what if an effectively unlimited number of compromised routers, subject to realtime observation and internal manipulation, were available to hostile actors? Game over, I think. About 15 years ago I used online traceroute utilities and whois lookups to determine (roughly) where all the high performing Mixmaster remailers were physically located. Over half of them, including most with "exotic sounding" TLDs, were apparently in the state of Texas. Then I used my data to construct "hard to compromise" chains, routing Mixmaster messages through national jurisdictions not likely to have comprehensive data sharing between their security services, and started sending test messages. None of these test messages ever made it back to me. So I concluded that, despite its major technical superiority to other anonymized networking protocols, the Mixmaster network was most likely compromised by passive observation (one owner for a majority of reliable remailers) and active intervention (traffic between uncontrolled remailers interrupted in transit). Owning enough of the routers in an anonymizing network to negate its security is largely a question of money: How much budget to you have, how certain do you want to be that nobody is really anonymous? If I had to neutralize an anonymous routing network, my approach would be to set up a cloud server running thousands of instances of the router software in question, customized to facilitate monitoring by a hypervisor. Each of these routers would be connected via VPN to a unique remote host, which would function as a transparent proxy. The proxy hosts could be machines owned by "friendly" actors, rooted consumer grade routers, purpose built appliances, conventional Windows botnets or some combination of these. I have not seen this method of attack described and named; I call it a "hydra" attack, because one body, many heads. I think this mode of attack deserves competent attention (i.e., not by me) because realtime observation and manipulation of any desired quantity of routers would provide solutions to any distributed anonymous routing protocol. The only defence I can think of is to assure that message traffic passes back and forth between mutually hostile national jurisdictions before delivery. This would be a bit of a hairball to implement, lots of slippery variables and potential counter-actions by hostiles would have to be taken into account. But this approach could increase the cost and reduce the reliability of Hydra attacks against anonymizing protocols. Long story short: If you want to be /really/ anonymous in the presence of hostile State sponsored actors, do not rely on a software-only approach: Use physical security measures to conceal your identity from the physical router that connects you to the Internet, because most or all of the anonymizing routers your traffic passes through may be owned and controlled by the very people you are hiding from. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXUdBBAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqlFoH/2COw22qWVeQr2B+s9w3LEwt XG+ixbo9a7fT0tmvy6S5bmmq39Cq38sw1eQnV6RSd1hzirKWqCwqwWpVS65biYpn CoCpm2AriwLHiyNgZZq1H36McybKYMph2Gd9DDmKPgUWn4p61V/jKDfXDCSqZmIs kkmTSaEBoRI0xpwauVqCYbs2kRk1srZvbRoXxSyFYtgeXGg/4HBqZ9S8pZkgS9gs M7izZs4xUkzgj7qQ40swtjzwSUJaCeRGxtoB3xemGdD/ngQId68GI7nVCIlk4w+R m3HjxtmhrOTaSsF6yuxVhODNS2FRvAXv+KPwuTr5PCYXPBcrb+XEkITOdUAf8e0= =tKZB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From skquinn at rushpost.com Fri Jun 3 13:12:29 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 15:12:29 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Breaking: victory in Muckrock FOIA case] Message-ID: <1464984749.3514.1.camel@moonpatrol> Score one for the good guys. -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: James S. Tyre Reply-to: "James S. Tyre" To: FOI-L at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: Breaking: victory in Muckrock FOIA case Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 13:05:26 -0700 (EFF will have more to say later) https://twitter.com/EFF/status/738819423155281921 -- James S. Tyre Law Offices of James S. Tyre 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax) jstyre at jstyre.com Special Counsel, Electronic Frontier Foundation https://www.eff.org -- Shawn K. Quinn From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jun 3 12:03:36 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (mrnobody at mail-on.us) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 19:03:36 +0000 Subject: What happened to Pond? In-Reply-To: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> References: <574B49CD.1080204@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5751D488.2010209@mail-on.us> It the how to progresses, I'd be great if you could share it here. Mirimir: > On 05/29/2016 01:27 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> "*Pond is in stasis*, and has been for several years. I hope that some >> of the ideas prove useful in the future, but people should use >> something [better polished and reviewed](https://whispersystems.org). >> I've no plans to shutdown down the default server, but **new users >> should look elsewhere**." -- agl at github > You need a telephone number to use that Whisper Systems stuff, right? > > Setting up Pond servers isn't hard. A friend is working on a how-to. > > But then there's the Panda exchange server :( > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 08:45:10 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 08:45:10 -0700 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject Message-ID: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out because of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet (5/30) simply says "Change of the guard" See this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror to do an "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. CNN > http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From shelley at misanthropia.org Sat Jun 4 09:33:47 2016 From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley) Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2016 09:33:47 -0700 Subject: How long before compulsory microchipping of cattle, I mean, 'citizens'? In-Reply-To: <1551c2d78b0.2789.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org> References: <573bbb9f.88c48c0a.2060f.ffffaa66@mx.google.com> <5752C352.3000404@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <20160604163331.78C35CC07A@mailuser.nyi.internal> On June 4, 2016 8:21:50 AM "mrnobody at mail-on.us" wrote: > The funny thing, is not going to be compulsory, it's happening already > voluntarily. > Check chapter to of this documentary: Dark Net > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Net_%28TV_series%29 What a dreadfully awful series. I side-eyed my way through parts of the first two episodes, the second only because I wondered how they'd cover grinding/biohacking, and it was so poorly done I could hardly get through it. There is much ado made about "evil" RFID chips, usually by insane religious whack jobs (e.g. Katherine Albrecht) or scientifically illiterate tinfoil hat-types, but it's much more benign to have some self-selected info contained on a passive chip in a finger than to carry a GPS-enabled tracking device on one's person at all times. My voluntary chip-implanted info is much more private and secure than the personal info all of you voluntarily divulge on Failbook daily. Hey, post another "selfie" and be sure to tag all your friends! Check-in at your favorite restaurant (and don't forget to post pictures of your food, everyone cares about what you're stuffing into your face.) Post your vacation pictures with the GPS coordinates in the EXIF data. Let Facebook harvest your contact info! Make it easy for the feds and every advertiser on Earth to profile you and track your every move. And then have the nerve to talk about Orwellian surveillance and the "evils" of RFID chips. > > grarpamp: > > On 5/17/16, juan wrote: > >> I'll hazard : 20 years. > > Nope, sorry, you're already effectively chipped. > > And considered cattle. > > Best you can do now is try to cast off your chains. > > > From mrnobody at mail-on.us Sat Jun 4 05:02:26 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (mrnobody at mail-on.us) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 12:02:26 +0000 Subject: How long before compulsory microchipping of cattle, I mean, 'citizens'? In-Reply-To: References: <573bbb9f.88c48c0a.2060f.ffffaa66@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5752C352.3000404@mail-on.us> The funny thing, is not going to be compulsory, it's happening already voluntarily. Check chapter to of this documentary: Dark Net https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Net_%28TV_series%29 grarpamp: > On 5/17/16, juan wrote: >> I'll hazard : 20 years. > Nope, sorry, you're already effectively chipped. > And considered cattle. > Best you can do now is try to cast off your chains. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 10:38:33 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 14:38:33 -0300 Subject: How long before compulsory microchipping of cattle, I mean, 'citizens'? In-Reply-To: <5752C352.3000404@mail-on.us> References: <573bbb9f.88c48c0a.2060f.ffffaa66@mx.google.com> <5752C352.3000404@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <5753121a.6b2fc80a.434d1.2267@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 12:02:26 +0000 "mrnobody at mail-on.us" wrote: > The funny thing, is not going to be compulsory, it's happening already > voluntarily. Sure, it's going to be 'voluntary' like taxes, conscription and every single dictate from the government. > Check chapter to of this documentary: Dark Net > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Net_%28TV_series%29 > > grarpamp: > > On 5/17/16, juan wrote: > >> I'll hazard : 20 years. > > Nope, sorry, you're already effectively chipped. > > And considered cattle. > > Best you can do now is try to cast off your chains. > > > > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 13:50:15 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 17:50:15 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> Message-ID: Cari, please, respect Rayzer and everybody here. What do you know about Jake? Did you already meet him? If you don't like him and you really think it is necessary, be polite and tell your reasons in a less aggressive way. It doesn't hurt. You don't need to be stupid to say what you think and why. Jake is my friend and I really love him. I don't know what happened, but every person in this world deserves respect. Take care. Cecilia On Jun 4, 2016 5:27 PM, "Cari Machet" wrote: > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you are > speaking of in such a manner > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Rayzer wrote: > >> >> ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude >> disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out because >> of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet (5/30) simply says >> "Change of the guard" >> >> See this twitter thread: >> https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 >> >> The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake >> >> LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror to do an >> "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". >> >> The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, >> @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. CNN > >> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ >> >> > > > -- > Cari Machet > NYC 646-436-7795 > carimachet at gmail.com > AIM carismachet > Syria +963-099 277 3243 > Amman +962 077 636 9407 > Berlin +49 152 11779219 > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 > Twitter: @carimachet > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without > permission is strictly prohibited. > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3738 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 14:20:29 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 18:20:29 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 17:50:15 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Cari, please, respect Rayzer and everybody here. > > What do you know about Jake? Did you already meet him? > > If you don't like him and you really think it is necessary, be polite > and tell your reasons in a less aggressive way. It doesn't hurt. > You don't need to be stupid to say what you think and why. > > Jake is my friend and I really love him. I don't know what happened, > but every person in this world deserves respect. applebaum, like the rest of members of the tor mafia is a despicable fraud. The guy pretends to be an 'anarchist' while working for the pentagon. Funnily enough, that is not something 'people' give a shit about. Hell, tor project pentagon's employees are regarded as 'freedom fighters' 'fighting' for 'free speech' in 'oppressed countries' - when they actually are motherfucking scumbags whose job is to 'secure' the communications of the americunt empire. The really funny thing is that appelbaum is being 'smeared' with some sexual bullshit that only retarded puritan monkeys (i.e. americunts) care about. Serves him well though. Oh, and these retards are leaving the US...and going to...germany*?? How retarded can people be? *germany : fascist shithole like the US, US empire province, and US military outpost used to drone women and children for fun. > > Take care. > > Cecilia > On Jun 4, 2016 5:27 PM, "Cari Machet" wrote: > > > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? > > > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you > > are speaking of in such a manner > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > >> > >> ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude > >> disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out > >> because of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet > >> (5/30) simply says "Change of the guard" > >> > >> See this twitter thread: > >> https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 > >> > >> The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake > >> > >> LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror to > >> do an "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". > >> > >> The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, > >> @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. CNN > > >> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Cari Machet > > NYC 646-436-7795 > > carimachet at gmail.com > > AIM carismachet > > Syria +963-099 277 3243 > > Amman +962 077 636 9407 > > Berlin +49 152 11779219 > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 > > Twitter: @carimachet > > > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 > > > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the > > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are > > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of > > this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > > email without permission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 14:38:53 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 18:38:53 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It is your opinion and I respect it, but I don't agree, Juan. My opinion definitely is not the same. Cheers. Cecilia, from Brazil... Oh, wait! I am not an "Americunt". Am I a kind of "Nipo-Brazilian cunt"?! :-o On Jun 4, 2016 6:25 PM, "juan" wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 17:50:15 -0300 > Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > Cari, please, respect Rayzer and everybody here. > > > > What do you know about Jake? Did you already meet him? > > > > If you don't like him and you really think it is necessary, be polite > > and tell your reasons in a less aggressive way. It doesn't hurt. > > You don't need to be stupid to say what you think and why. > > > > Jake is my friend and I really love him. I don't know what happened, > > but every person in this world deserves respect. > > > applebaum, like the rest of members of the tor mafia is a > despicable fraud. The guy pretends to be an 'anarchist' while > working for the pentagon. > > Funnily enough, that is not something 'people' give a shit > about. > > Hell, tor project pentagon's employees are regarded as > 'freedom fighters' 'fighting' for 'free speech' in 'oppressed > countries' - when they actually are motherfucking scumbags > whose job is to 'secure' the communications of the americunt > empire. > > The really funny thing is that appelbaum is being 'smeared' > with some sexual bullshit that only retarded puritan monkeys > (i.e. americunts) care about. Serves him well though. > > Oh, and these retards are leaving the US...and going > to...germany*?? How retarded can people be? > > > *germany : fascist shithole like the US, US empire province, and US > military outpost used to drone women and children for fun. > > > > > > > > Take care. > > > > Cecilia > > On Jun 4, 2016 5:27 PM, "Cari Machet" wrote: > > > > > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? > > > > > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you > > > are speaking of in such a manner > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude > > >> disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out > > >> because of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet > > >> (5/30) simply says "Change of the guard" > > >> > > >> See this twitter thread: > > >> https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 > > >> > > >> The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake > > >> > > >> LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror to > > >> do an "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". > > >> > > >> The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, > > >> @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. CNN > > > >> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cari Machet > > > NYC 646-436-7795 > > > carimachet at gmail.com > > > AIM carismachet > > > Syria +963-099 277 3243 > > > Amman +962 077 636 9407 > > > Berlin +49 152 11779219 > > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 > > > Twitter: @carimachet > > > > > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 > > > > > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the > > > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are > > > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of > > > this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > > > email without permission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5728 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mrnobody at mail-on.us Sat Jun 4 11:43:27 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (mrnobody at mail-on.us) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 18:43:27 +0000 Subject: How long before compulsory microchipping of cattle, I mean, 'citizens'? In-Reply-To: <20160604163331.78C35CC07A@mailuser.nyi.internal> References: <573bbb9f.88c48c0a.2060f.ffffaa66@mx.google.com> <5752C352.3000404@mail-on.us> <20160604163331.78C35CC07A@mailuser.nyi.internal> Message-ID: <5753214F.5000205@mail-on.us> Speak for yourself on facebook if you please, I'm no user of it, so you can save yourself the speech. I wasn't saying that the documentary was good, I was giving a reference on how some people are microchiping themselves voluntarily without government coercion. No judgement, put as many chips as you want. Shelley: > On June 4, 2016 8:21:50 AM "mrnobody at mail-on.us" > wrote: > >> The funny thing, is not going to be compulsory, it's happening already >> voluntarily. >> Check chapter to of this documentary: Dark Net >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Net_%28TV_series%29 > > What a dreadfully awful series. I side-eyed my way through parts of > the first two episodes, the second only because I wondered how they'd > cover grinding/biohacking, and it was so poorly done I could hardly > get through it. > > There is much ado made about "evil" RFID chips, usually by insane > religious whack jobs (e.g. Katherine Albrecht) or scientifically > illiterate tinfoil hat-types, but it's much more benign to have some > self-selected info contained on a passive chip in a finger than to > carry a GPS-enabled tracking device on one's person at all times. > > My voluntary chip-implanted info is much more private and secure than > the personal info all of you voluntarily divulge on Failbook daily. > Hey, post another "selfie" and be sure to tag all your friends! > Check-in at your favorite restaurant (and don't forget to post > pictures of your food, everyone cares about what you're stuffing into > your face.) Post your vacation pictures with the GPS coordinates in > the EXIF data. Let Facebook harvest your contact info! Make it easy > for the feds and every advertiser on Earth to profile you and track > your every move. And then have the nerve to talk about Orwellian > surveillance and the "evils" of RFID chips. > > >> >> grarpamp: >> > On 5/17/16, juan wrote: >> >> I'll hazard : 20 years. >> > Nope, sorry, you're already effectively chipped. >> > And considered cattle. >> > Best you can do now is try to cast off your chains. >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ONLY AT VFEmail! - Use our Metadata Mitigator to keep your email out of the NSA's hands! $24.95 ONETIME Lifetime accounts with Privacy Features! 15GB disk! No bandwidth quotas! Commercial and Bulk Mail Options! From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 20:00:28 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:00:28 -0700 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575395CC.5010003@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 01:21 PM, Cari Machet wrote: > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you are > speaking of in such a manner > > > Why the fuck are you a troll? Is it pathological? Something you need medications for but it hasn't quite been adjusted for your particular psychosis? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1273 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 20:05:02 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:05:02 -0700 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575396DE.1080206@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 02:20 PM, juan wrote: > The guy pretends to be an 'anarchist' while > working for the pentagon. Umn... This is why one of tor's developers had to flee the country... Because "work for the gubmint". You're missing a few pieces of some puzzle and I can almost hear them rattling around your head from here. Like "Cari" Another contentless ad-hom filled nothing from the peanut (with the accent on 'nut') gallery. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 10:11:52 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:11:52 +0300 Subject: A Russian Warning Message-ID: Source: *http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.il/2016/05/a-russian-warning.html http://thesaker.is/a-russian-warning/ *A Russian Warning We, the undersigned, are Russians living and working in the USA. We have been watching with increasing anxiety as the current US and NATO policies have set us on an extremely dangerous collision course with the Russian Federation, as well as with China. Many respected, patriotic Americans, such as Paul Craig Roberts, Stephen Cohen, Philip Giraldi, Ray McGovern and many others have been issuing warnings of a looming a Third World War. But their voices have been all but lost among the din of a mass media that is full of deceptive and inaccurate stories that characterize the Russian economy as being in shambles and the Russian military as weak—all based on no evidence. But we—knowing both Russian history and the current state of Russian society and the Russian military, cannot swallow these lies. We now feel that it is our duty, as Russians living in the US, to warn the American people that they are being lied to, and to tell them the truth. And the truth is simply this: *If there is going to be a war with Russia, then the United Stateswill most certainly be destroyed, and most of us will end up dead.* Let us take a step back and put what is happening in a historical context. Russia has suffered a great deal at the hands of foreign invaders, losing 22 million people in World War II. Most of the dead were civilians, because the country was invaded, and the Russians have vowed to never let such a disaster happen again. Each time Russia had been invaded, she emerged victorious. In 1812 Nepoleon invaded Russia; in 1814 Russian cavalry rode into Paris. On June 22, 1941, Hitler’s Luftwaffe bombed Kiev; On May 8, 1945, Soviet troops rolled into Berlin. But times have changed since then. If Hitler were to attack Russia today, he would be dead 20 to 30 minutes later, his bunker reduced to glowing rubble by a strike from a Kalibr supersonic cruise missile launched from a small Russian navy ship somewhere in the Baltic Sea. The operational abilities of the new Russian military have been most persuasively demonstrated during the recent action against ISIS, Al Nusra and other foreign-funded terrorist groups operating in Syria. A long time ago Russia had to respond to provocations by fighting land battles on her own territory, then launching a counter-invasion; but this is no longer necessary. Russia’s new weapons make retaliation instant, undetectable, unstoppable and perfectly lethal. Thus, if tomorrow a war were to break out between the US and Russia, it is guaranteed that the US would be obliterated. At a minimum, there would no longer be an electric grid, no internet, no oil and gas pipelines, no interstate highway system, no air transportation or GPS-based navigation. Financial centers would lie in ruins. Government at every level would cease to function. US armed forces, stationed all around the globe, would no longer be resupplied. At a maximum, the entire landmass of the US would be covered by a layer of radioactive ash. We tell you this not to be alarmist, but because, based on everything we know, we are ourselves alarmed. If attacked, Russia will not back down; she will retaliate, and she will utterly annihilate the United States. The US leadership has done everything it could to push the situation to the brink of disaster. First, its anti-Russian policies have convinced the Russian leadership that making concessions or negotiating with the West is futile. It has become apparent that the West will always support any individual, movement or government that is anti-Russian, be it tax-cheating Russian oligarchs, convicted Ukrainian war criminals, Saudi-supported Wahhabi terrorists in Chechnya or cathedral-desecrating punks in Moscow. Now that NATO, in violation of its previous promises, has expanded right up to the Russian border, with US forces deployed in the Baltic states, within artillery range of St. Petersburg, Russia’s second-largest city, the Russians have nowhere left to retreat. They will not attack; nor will they back down or surrender. The Russian leadership enjoys over 80% of popular support; the remaining 20% seems to feel that it is being too soft in opposing Western encroachment. But Russia will retaliate, and a provocation or a simple mistake could trigger a sequence of events that will end with millions of Americans dead and the US in ruins. Unlike many Americans, who see war as an exciting, victorious foreign adventure, the Russians hate and fear war. But they are also ready for it, and they have been preparing for war for several years now. Their preparations have been most effective. Unlike the US, which squanders untold billions on dubious overpriced arms programs such as the F-35 joint task fighter, the Russians are extremely stingy with their defense rubles, getting as much as 10 times the bang for the buck compared to the bloated US defense industry. While it is true that the Russian economy has suffered from low energy prices, it is far from being in shambles, and a return to growth is expected as early as next year. Senator John McCain once called Russia “A gas station masquerading as a country.” Well, he lied. Yes, Russia is the world’s largest oil producer and second-largest oil exporter, but it is also world’s largest exporter of grain and nuclear power technology. It is as advanced and sophisticated a society as the United States. Russia’s armed forces, both conventional and nuclear, are now ready to fight, and they are more than a match for the US and NATO, especially if a war erupts anywhere near the Russian border. But such a fight would be suicidal for all sides. We strongly believe that a conventional war in Europe runs a strong chance of turning nuclear very rapidly, and that any US/NATO nuclear strike on Russian forces or territory will automatically trigger a retaliatory Russian nuclear strike on the continental US. Contrary to irresponsible statements made by some American propagandists, American antiballistic missile systems are incapable of shielding the American people from a Russian nuclear strike. Russia has the means to strike at targets in the USA with long-range nuclear as well as conventional weapons. The sole reason why the USA and Russia have found themselves on a collision course, instead of defusing tensions and cooperating on a wide range of international problems, is the stubborn refusal by the US leadership to accept Russia as an equal partner: Washington is dead set on being the “world leader” and the “indispensable nation,” even as its influence steadily dwindles in the wake of a string of foreign policy and military disasters such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen and the Ukraine. Continued American global leadership is something that neither Russia, nor China, nor most of the other countries are willing to accept. This gradual but apparent loss of power and influence has caused the US leadership to become hysterical; and it is but a small step from hysterical to suicidal. America’s political leaders need to be placed under suicide watch. First and foremost, we are appealing to the commanders of the US Armed Forces to follow the example of Admiral William Fallon, who, when asked about a war with Iran, reportedly replied “not on my watch.” We know that you are not suicidal, and that you do not wish to die for the sake of out-of-touch imperial hubris. If possible, please tell your staff, colleagues and, especially, your civilian superiors that a war with Russia will not happen on your watch. At the very least, take that pledge yourselves, and, should the day ever come when the suicidal order is issued, refuse to execute it on the grounds that it is criminal. Remember that according to the Nuremberg Tribunal “To initiate a war of aggression… is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.” Since Nuremberg, “I was just following orders” is no longer a valid defense; please don’t be war criminals. We also appeal to the American people to take peaceful but forceful action to oppose any politician or party that engages in irresponsible, provocative Russia-baiting, and that condones and supports a policy of needless confrontation with a nuclear superpower that is capable of destroying America in about an hour. Speak up, break through the barrier of mass media propaganda, and make your fellow Americans aware of the immense danger of a confrontation between Russia and the US. There is no objective reason why US and Russia should consider each other adversaries. The current confrontation is entirely the result of the extremist views of the neoconservative cult, whose members were allowed to infiltrate the US Federal government under President Bill Clinton, and who consider any country that refuses to obey their dictates as an enemy to be crushed. Thanks to their tireless efforts, over a million innocent people have already died in the former Yugoslavia, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, the Ukraine, Yemen, Somalia and in many other countries—all because of their maniacal insistence that the USA must be a world empire, not a just a regular, normal country, and that every national leader must either bow down before them, or be overthrown. In Russia, this irresistible force has finally encountered an immovable object. They must be forced to back down before they destroy us all. We are absolutely and categorically certain that Russia will never attack the US, nor any EU member state, that Russia is not at all interested in recreating the USSR, and that there is no “Russian threat” or “Russian aggression.” Much of Russia’s recent economic success has a lot to do with the shedding of former Soviet dependencies, allowing her to pursue a “Russia first” policy. But we are just as certain that if Russia is attacked, or even threatened with attack, she will not back down, and that the Russian leadership will not “blink.” With great sadness and a heavy heart they will do their sworn duty and unleash a nuclear barrage from which the United States will never recover. Even if the entire Russian leadership is killed in a first strike, the so-called “Dead Hand” (the “Perimetr” system) will automatically launch enough nukes to wipe the USA off the political map. *We feel that it is our duty to do all we can to prevent such a catastrophe.* Evgenia Gurevich, Ph.D. http://thesaker.ru Victor Katsap, PhD, Sr. Scientist NuFlare Technology America, Inc. Andrei Kozhev Serge Lubomudrov Dmitry Orlov http://cluborlov.blogspot.com The Saker (A. Raevsky) http://thesaker.is __________________________ Source: *http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.il/2016/05/a-russian-warning.html http://thesaker.is/a-russian-warning/ * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 11587 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 20:13:17 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:13:17 -0700 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 05:56 PM, juan wrote: > I wouldn't describe what I wrote as opinion. No, but it could be described as entirely off-topic of Jacob Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him. Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but it appears to use github's servers. http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net Hasn't github been 'compromised'? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 20:50:41 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:50:41 -0700 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5753A191.9080703@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 08:28 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:13:17 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 06/04/2016 05:56 PM, juan wrote: >>> I wouldn't describe what I wrote as opinion. >> No, but it could be described as entirely off-topic of Jacob >> Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being >> seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him. > > I agree that accusing people of 'sexual misconduct' is a > textbook example of slandering, character assassination, witch > hunting, etc. > > Though it seems that applebaum's own bosses are part of the > slandering effort... > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > That post wasn't there earlier today. Note that it's industry standard boilerplate distancing the org from any liability for NOT mentioning potential problems, but there's absolutely nothing new here and all the 'evidence' is still un-vetted or verified. At least one post I've seen from the twitter account link I posted earlier was obviously not evidence against him, but a visual sexually semantic enticement without relevance to the issue. Perhaps one of the accusers is mentally unstable. Rr Ps. AFA 'working for the gubmint'. DUDE! They didn't even think it was safe to DRAFT me for the Vietnam war... I was threatening to kill the first motherfucker who handed me a gun and I'm MUCH MORE PISSED OFF NOW! >> Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but >> it appears to use github's servers. >> >> http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net >> >> Hasn't github been 'compromised'? >> >> Rr >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 20:50:03 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 21:50:03 -0600 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5753A16B.7070407@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 09:28 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:13:17 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> >> On 06/04/2016 05:56 PM, juan wrote: >>> I wouldn't describe what I wrote as opinion. >> >> No, but it could be described as entirely off-topic of Jacob >> Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being >> seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him. > > > I agree that accusing people of 'sexual misconduct' is a > textbook example of slandering, character assassination, witch > hunting, etc. > > Though it seems that applebaum's own bosses are part of the > slandering effort... > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele Maybe he's made mistakes. Maybe he's a SJW victim. Maybe some of both. Maybe Shari Steele's ascension was a SJW victory. All hard to say. Very. So where are you on SJW, Juan? Me, I'm conflicted. And very glad to be in the shadows. >> Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but >> it appears to use github's servers. >> >> http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net >> >> Hasn't github been 'compromised'? >> >> Rr >> > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 17:56:54 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 21:56:54 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 18:38:53 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > It is your opinion and I respect it, but I don't agree, Juan. I wouldn't describe what I wrote as opinion. What I wrote is basically a list of facts. The tor project is a project of the US military and it is obviously self-serving, like any other government project. Tell me that all the 'hidden' services that were seized were not seized and that people like DPR are not in jail. Of course, you cannot do that. It's too bad that shitbags like syverson and dingledine won't get the applebaum treatment tho. My > opinion definitely is not the same. > > Cheers. > > Cecilia, from Brazil... > > Oh, wait! I am not an "Americunt". Am I a kind of "Nipo-Brazilian > cunt"?! :-o > On Jun 4, 2016 6:25 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 17:50:15 -0300 > > Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > > > Cari, please, respect Rayzer and everybody here. > > > > > > What do you know about Jake? Did you already meet him? > > > > > > If you don't like him and you really think it is necessary, be > > > polite and tell your reasons in a less aggressive way. It > > > doesn't hurt. You don't need to be stupid to say what you think > > > and why. > > > > > > Jake is my friend and I really love him. I don't know what > > > happened, but every person in this world deserves respect. > > > > > > applebaum, like the rest of members of the tor mafia is a > > despicable fraud. The guy pretends to be an 'anarchist' > > while working for the pentagon. > > > > Funnily enough, that is not something 'people' give a shit > > about. > > > > Hell, tor project pentagon's employees are regarded as > > 'freedom fighters' 'fighting' for 'free speech' in > > 'oppressed countries' - when they actually are motherfucking > > scumbags whose job is to 'secure' the communications of the > > americunt empire. > > > > The really funny thing is that appelbaum is being 'smeared' > > with some sexual bullshit that only retarded puritan monkeys > > (i.e. americunts) care about. Serves him well though. > > > > Oh, and these retards are leaving the US...and going > > to...germany*?? How retarded can people be? > > > > > > *germany : fascist shithole like the US, US empire province, and US > > military outpost used to drone women and children for fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care. > > > > > > Cecilia > > > On Jun 4, 2016 5:27 PM, "Cari Machet" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation > > > > person? > > > > > > > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people > > > > you are speaking of in such a manner > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Rayzer > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude > > > >> disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out > > > >> because of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet > > > >> (5/30) simply says "Change of the guard" > > > >> > > > >> See this twitter thread: > > > >> https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 > > > >> > > > >> The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake > > > >> > > > >> LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror > > > >> to do an "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". > > > >> > > > >> The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, > > > >> @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. > > > >> CNN > > > > >> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Cari Machet > > > > NYC 646-436-7795 > > > > carimachet at gmail.com > > > > AIM carismachet > > > > Syria +963-099 277 3243 > > > > Amman +962 077 636 9407 > > > > Berlin +49 152 11779219 > > > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 > > > > Twitter: @carimachet > > > > > > > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 > > > > > > > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If > > > > you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > > > > that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, > > > > or copying of this email without permission is strictly > > > > prohibited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From carimachet at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 13:21:49 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 22:21:49 +0200 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> Message-ID: why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you are speaking of in such a manner On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > ...and from what I'm seeing it looks like there's a crude > disinformation/smear campaign to make it look like he bowed out because > of pederasty accusations. while his most recent tweet (5/30) simply says > "Change of the guard" > > See this twitter thread: > https://twitter.com/Asher_Wolf/status/738924124920119296 > > The disinfo/slander op: https://twitter.com/TimeToDieJake > > LOOKS LIKE an Institutional Slander operation to get @ioerror to do an > "Aaron Swartz" or "Ian Murdock". > > The other of the two who've departed torproject recently, > @isislovecruft, fled to Germany because of harassment by FBI. CNN > > http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ > > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 22:22:31 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2016 23:22:31 -0600 Subject: social justice - was Re: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5753ae0f.8da3370a.6b671.1ca5@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> <5753A16B.7070407@riseup.net> <5753ae0f.8da3370a.6b671.1ca5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5753B717.7000504@riseup.net> On 06/04/2016 10:43 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 21:50:03 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> So where are you on SJW, Juan? Me, I'm conflicted. And very glad to be >> in the shadows. >> > > Isn't sjw a derogative term? ;) Yes, and I used it deliberately :) This feels a lot like a lynching to me. It's the fucking CIA, I bet. > The feminist stuff is a pretty bad joke. Modern feminists are > nothing but recycled puritans and founding members of the anti > sex league. Agreed. But then, I'm a redneck hippie ;) > People complaining about racism have more of a point I think. Maybe, what if they're mostly white, from rich families? > Sjws complaining about unfair wealth distribution have a point > again, but their analysis of the problem and proposed > solution(s) are typical state socialism. Agreed. > Political correcteness is a bad, dangerous and anti-liberal(in > the true sense) joke. > > I don't know. The overall philosophy isn't exactly impressive... Batshit insane, I'd say. >>>> Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership >>>> but it appears to use github's servers. >>>> >>>> http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net >>>> >>>> Hasn't github been 'compromised'? >>>> >>>> Rr >>>> >>> >>> > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 20:17:57 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 00:17:57 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <575396DE.1080206@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575396DE.1080206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575399ef.ae668c0a.ec35e.1424@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:05:02 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/04/2016 02:20 PM, juan wrote: > > The guy pretends to be an 'anarchist' while > > working for the pentagon. > > Umn... This is why one of tor's developers had to flee the country... > Because "work for the gubmint". Like you probably do. > > You're missing a few pieces of some puzzle and I can almost hear them > rattling around your head from here. Like "Cari" Another contentless > ad-hom filled nothing from the peanut (with the accent on 'nut') > gallery. > > Rr > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 20:28:40 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 00:28:40 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 20:13:17 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/04/2016 05:56 PM, juan wrote: > > I wouldn't describe what I wrote as opinion. > > No, but it could be described as entirely off-topic of Jacob > Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being > seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him. I agree that accusing people of 'sexual misconduct' is a textbook example of slandering, character assassination, witch hunting, etc. Though it seems that applebaum's own bosses are part of the slandering effort... https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but > it appears to use github's servers. > > http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net > > Hasn't github been 'compromised'? > > Rr > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 21:43:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 01:43:45 -0300 Subject: social justice - was Re: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5753A16B.7070407@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> <5753A16B.7070407@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5753ae0f.8da3370a.6b671.1ca5@mx.google.com> On Sat, 4 Jun 2016 21:50:03 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > So where are you on SJW, Juan? Me, I'm conflicted. And very glad to be > in the shadows. > Isn't sjw a derogative term? ;) The feminist stuff is a pretty bad joke. Modern feminists are nothing but recycled puritans and founding members of the anti sex league. People complaining about racism have more of a point I think. Sjws complaining about unfair wealth distribution have a point again, but their analysis of the problem and proposed solution(s) are typical state socialism. Political correcteness is a bad, dangerous and anti-liberal(in the true sense) joke. I don't know. The overall philosophy isn't exactly impressive... > >> Here's a fact. The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership > >> but it appears to use github's servers. > >> > >> http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net > >> > >> Hasn't github been 'compromised'? > >> > >> Rr > >> > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 21:53:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 01:53:26 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5753b04e.6b2fc80a.434d1.5494@mx.google.com> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 03:32:14 +0000 Jack Liddy wrote: > You can find the page on here: https://github.com/ioerrror (note the > spelling). By the way, there isn't any real (or made up) data in the .net site or the github repo? All I saw is a bunch of names. https://github.com/ioerrror/jacobappelbaum.net/blob/master/content/alice.md "this is a placehoder" From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 22:26:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 02:26:04 -0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5753B4D1.9030505@yahoo.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> <5753b04e.6b2fc80a.434d1.5494@mx.google.com> <5753B4D1.9030505@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5753b7f2.f4288c0a.be7be.242f@mx.google.com> On Sun, 5 Jun 2016 05:12:49 +0000 Jack Liddy wrote: > Some of the pages (Sam, West, River, Forest, and Daniel) have content. Oh, I stupidly missed those. Thanks! From jackeliddy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 20:32:14 2016 From: jackeliddy at yahoo.com (Jack Liddy) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 03:32:14 +0000 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> You can find the page on here: https://github.com/ioerrror (note the spelling). From jackeliddy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 4 22:12:49 2016 From: jackeliddy at yahoo.com (Jack Liddy) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 05:12:49 +0000 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5753b04e.6b2fc80a.434d1.5494@mx.google.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> <5753b04e.6b2fc80a.434d1.5494@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5753B4D1.9030505@yahoo.com> Some of the pages (Sam, West, River, Forest, and Daniel) have content. From carimachet at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 20:49:17 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 05:49:17 +0200 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539D3E.9000206@yahoo.com> Message-ID: as i have stated a million times - tor is fucked and rayzor > boring On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:32 AM, Jack Liddy wrote: > You can find the page on here: https://github.com/ioerrror (note the > spelling). > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1796 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 21:33:36 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 07:33:36 +0300 Subject: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> Message-ID: ​​ *Slander, slander, slander* (collective & well planned one) - that is always the name of the game, when "they" want to destroy someone. People, at least if you don't want to make war and defend your friend/fellow worker/comrade in arms...(it is more difficult than "just ignore it" and put likes on facebook, right?) - at least don't you believe in everything you read. Qui habet aures audiendi, audiat. 2016-06-04 22:22 GMT+03:00 jacob appelbaum (ioerror) questions < jacobappelbaum.net at yandex.com>: > They say Jacob Appelbaum finally raped enough people that Tor as an > organization couldn't ignore it anymore. According to the Tor Project, the > circumstances surrounding Jake's departure are a personal matter. > > http://jacobappelbaum.net/ > -- > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2018 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 21:44:06 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 07:44:06 +0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: <5753A191.9080703@riseup.net> References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> <57534621.0f65370a.b0bd4.fffffdd7@mx.google.com> <575378da.0beb8c0a.3e84f.3c3f@mx.google.com> <575398CD.6060802@riseup.net> <57539c70.69588c0a.2906c.ffffe0de@mx.google.com> <5753A191.9080703@riseup.net> Message-ID: copy-paste from another thread, but i'll put it here: > 2016-06-04 22:22 GMT+03:00 jacob app > elbaum (ioerror) questions : > They say Jacob Appelbaum finally raped enough people that Tor as an organization couldn't ignore it anymore. According to the Tor Project, the circumstances surrounding Jake's departure are a personal matter. > > http://jacobappelbaum.net/ Slander, slander, slander (collective & well planned one) - that is always the name of the game, when "they" want to destroy someone. People, at least if you don't want to make war and defend your friend/fellow worker/comrade in arms...(it is more difficult than "just ignore it" and put likes on facebook, right?) - at least don't you believe in everything you read. Qui habet aures audiendi, audiat. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1024 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 22:19:29 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 08:19:29 +0300 Subject: Then there were two... IoError retires from torproject In-Reply-To: References: <5752F786.6020803@riseup.net> Message-ID: > 2016-06-04 23:21 GMT+03:00 Cari Machet : > why the fuck are you always always always so misinformation person? > > its not a fucking smear campaign - you have no idea the people you are speaking of in such a manner Oh, and you are the one who has any idea, right? You "know for sure" Appelbaum is x/y/z, right? And "you know for sure" that it's not a smear campaign? You and many others are just barking like dogs, that's it. *Was there already an OFFICIAL TRIAL -> and a verdict?!* *Where are the SOLID and INDISPUTABLE facts* and not some written/said boolshit about Appelbaum?! Nothing. Just a lot of mud and wails of slander. What about the presumption of INNOCENCE, until PRO ​​ VEN otherwise in an official trial?! (not even saying about the fact, that we've got so many examples of convicting innocent people in a court with false evidences) It's the same scheme every time. And most of the people keep eating this boolshit time after time ​​ . ​​ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1509 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 5 01:20:04 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 08:20:04 +0000 Subject: How long before compulsory microchipping of cattle, I mean, 'citizens'? In-Reply-To: References: <573bbb9f.88c48c0a.2060f.ffffaa66@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 5/18/16, grarpamp wrote: > On 5/17/16, juan wrote: >> I'll hazard : 20 years. > > Nope, sorry, you're already effectively chipped. > And considered cattle. Can only agree 100% - try telling your friendly 'magistrate' that you are not accepting their jurisdiction except by evidence/ proof of jurisdiction over you, in the petty "papers please" case they dragged you to court for... say driving a car a little over the speed limit or without your govt issued permission license to travel by that mode of transport - it is very hard to hold ground, to not get railroaded in the "conversation" between you and the Magistrate as s/he challenges you straight back (which ought to have been left to the prosecutor at least, showing bluntly that the magistrate has ganged up against you on the police side of course) to not implicitly consent to --their-- jurisdiction as you try to field the blows (devious questions). It's really obnoxious stuff - well, challenging at least. > Best you can do now is try to cast off your chains. ABSO-FIRETRUCKIN-LUTELY From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 11:34:22 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2016 14:34:22 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] A possible solution to traffic correlation attacks, In-Reply-To: <8554176B-F17B-4FC6-AFBA-29DA392E4B28@riseup.net> References: <8554176B-F17B-4FC6-AFBA-29DA392E4B28@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/5/16, Not Friendly wrote: > After about an hour of brain storming I may of found a way to stop traffic > correlation attacks. The idea is to add an artificial delay of a few > randomized ms (two separate delays, one to the tor exit and another deal on > traffic exiting the network) and add an extra chunk of randomized data (just > a small random amount of KB that never exits the network). It would make > traffic harder to correlate. What are your thoughts on this? Doesn't work. "never exits" - GPA's don't necessarily need to correlate any internal flows. They can look only at the endpoints. The minute you insert traffic that lights up some other endpoint, in an otherwise sufficiently quiet network, or distinguishable way (bytes / latency [pump], which is made even easier for them if they reign over an endpoint), you're done. You need fulltime regulated fill traffic, within which, your traffic resides. From hettinga at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 04:39:07 2016 From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 07:39:07 -0400 Subject: GNU's "anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments system" Heh. Message-ID: The Register GNU cryptocurrency aims at 'the mainstream economy not the black market' GNU and an outfit called “Inria” have released Alpha code – version 0.0.0 to be precise – of an anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments system they say is “a currency for the mainstream economy, and not the black market.” “Taler”, as the effort is dubbed, looks to be an attempt to build on the concepts behind Bitcoin. So while Taler lets you use encrypted “coins” as a means of exchange, it is explicitly not a new currency. Instead, it “... uses an electronic exchange holding financial reserves in existing currencies.” “This means that Taler is not a new currency with the inherent currency fluctuation risks, but instead the cryptographic coins correspond to existing currencies, such as US Dollars, Euros or even BitCoins.” The technology is also designed to be open enough that governments can peer inside, levy “sales, value-added or income taxes”. As a GNU project, the code is of course freely-available. For now, the effort is in its very early stages. GNU even warns, in the announcement of the project's debut, that “There is no auditor, and hence components do not properly support auditors either. As a result, a dishonest exchange could embezzle funds.” There's also no real-world integration at present, “so only toy currencies are available for now.” If you're interested regardless of those foibles, the 0.0.0 code does include “key components providing logic for running a bank, exchange, merchant and wallet.” That code is described as follows: • Exchange implements the full Taler protocol, but does not integrate with traditional banking systems (only with Taler's own "bank"). • Wallet can withdraw and spend coins, but does not yet handle refreshing, refunding, synchronizing, or export of cryptographic proofs. Some error handling may be insufficient. The wallet was only tested with Chrome/Chromium. • Merchant backend can generate contracts and handle payments, but does not yet offer full back-office support for tracking payments received. Frontend examples are available in Python and PHP. • The bank can manage accounts, allows the wallet to withdraw funds and can receive payments from the exchange. Inria and GNU hope to have more advanced versions of Taler to share by year's end. When they do, it may well be game on in the cryptocurrency space: Taler's already used fighting words with its “mainstream, not black market” talk. Bitcoin's many admirers may take offence at that kind of language and point to strong adoption. Sceptics can point to security woes among Bitcoin exchanges, governance woes and the cryptocurrency's volatility as evidence that different approaches to electronic currencies probably won't hurt their evolution. ® From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 6 08:16:23 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:16:23 -0700 Subject: GNU's "anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments system" Heh. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <575593C7.2050203@riseup.net> Now we're getting somewhere! Not just "another mythical currency', but a mythical currency based on government distributed mythical currency, or even more labyrinthine... a mythical currency based on another mythical currency (bitkoin). I want to drop this 4-1-1 about crapitalism on ya all: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/145508373404 Rr Ps. Remember folks, the petroleum age and industrial revolution are (soon to be 'were') just a microscopic blip, an anomaly, a zit, on history's timeline. On 06/06/2016 04:39 AM, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > > The Register > > > > GNU cryptocurrency aims at 'the mainstream economy not the black market' > > > GNU and an outfit called “Inria” have released Alpha code – version 0.0.0 to be precise – of an anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments system they say is “a currency for the mainstream economy, and not the black market.” > > “Taler”, as the effort is dubbed, looks to be an attempt to build on the concepts behind Bitcoin. So while Taler lets you use encrypted “coins” as a means of exchange, it is explicitly not a new currency. Instead, it “... uses an electronic exchange holding financial reserves in existing currencies.” > > “This means that Taler is not a new currency with the inherent currency fluctuation risks, but instead the cryptographic coins correspond to existing currencies, such as US Dollars, Euros or even BitCoins.” > > The technology is also designed to be open enough that governments can peer inside, levy “sales, value-added or income taxes”. > > As a GNU project, the code is of course freely-available. > > For now, the effort is in its very early stages. GNU even warns, in the announcement of the project's debut, that “There is no auditor, and hence components do not properly support auditors either. As a result, a dishonest exchange could embezzle funds.” There's also no real-world integration at present, “so only toy currencies are available for now.” > > If you're interested regardless of those foibles, the 0.0.0 code does include “key components providing logic for running a bank, exchange, merchant and wallet.” That code is described as follows: > > • Exchange implements the full Taler protocol, but does not integrate with traditional banking systems (only with Taler's own "bank"). > • Wallet can withdraw and spend coins, but does not yet handle refreshing, refunding, synchronizing, or export of cryptographic proofs. Some error handling may be insufficient. The wallet was only tested with Chrome/Chromium. > • Merchant backend can generate contracts and handle payments, but does not yet offer full back-office support for tracking payments received. Frontend examples are available in Python and PHP. > • The bank can manage accounts, allows the wallet to withdraw funds and can receive payments from the exchange. > Inria and GNU hope to have more advanced versions of Taler to share by year's end. > > When they do, it may well be game on in the cryptocurrency space: Taler's already used fighting words with its “mainstream, not black market” talk. Bitcoin's many admirers may take offence at that kind of language and point to strong adoption. Sceptics can point to security woes among Bitcoin exchanges, governance woes and the cryptocurrency's volatility as evidence that different approaches to electronic currencies probably won't hurt their evolution. ® > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jun 6 10:00:06 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:00:06 -0400 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/06/2016 08:18 AM, Александр wrote: > Unambiguous and comprehensive response from Jacob Appelbaum himself > to all this dirty slander toward him! If this kind of response > "does not enough" for you, people, - just go fuck yourself. > > http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soorlp > > Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror 6th Jun 2016 from TwitLonger Berlin, > June 6, 2016 Anyone who is visible on the Internet for any substantial length of time will attract both admirers, wannabe rivals and self appointed "watchdogs" regardless of anything said or done in real life. Widely broadcast accusations backed by no verifiable independent sources only indicate that someone, somewhere is pissed off. To the people who "know" that TOR is a complete sham designed to compromise unwary users, Appelbaum ranks with Hitler, Stalin and Attila the Hun. To those who "know" that TOR is the bestest weapon in the whole Freedom Fighter arsenal, he is the noblest of heroes. Both views are dead wrong. Whether TOR is harmful or helpful depends entirely on how well its users understand both what it does, and what their potential adversaries can do about it. Since the Five Eyes & aligned regimes can easily afford to literally own and monitor a majority of nodes in any distributed anonymous routing network (ask me about the Hydra protocol), neither TOR nor any other planned or proposed anonymizing network provides more than fig leaf security against that particular cluster of adversaries. The same goes for BRICS aligned adversaries. But even against this category of attack, TOR may be a useful component in a physical security protocol for hit-and-run network access. Against less capable surveillance actors, TOR is "good enough" unless the operating system it runs on has itself been compromised. The largest proven security hazard with TOR is that end users will disclose their identity in the content of cleartext at an exit node, either literally or by engaging in stereotyped behavior matching a profile developed from open public sources, i.e. textual analysis attacks. No "airtight" security protocol has ever survived contact with end users. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVawWAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqnd4H/06n6JWk1NDv8k7+snwAFNYH 8EJed9XNVPe3PSVX1gKX2WIE72tV+LjKzPciY01ld4ze01XAUIhu2Kw5+NsqAnI7 at1AegXZRo73cHO6Ys3YfIQohQMZqfnKDnq2oaBWnkddGd/Ar9PtcneKbXDtLX2A 39+DYCJCB+4OSA+TTpTaZTILHop9N1PAxp7fXNi0KK2QPxKW9ICfNl17wi1TuuSu vmDV5ONiBtheNRiMhwkrwFUNHrz9wvBZnZ6aaz5Zf2IvWT6QvFvUMylQgtxgzBL+ rgBxMD8ASCE79Ka+KEYq+Xw8uBkOf5uJE+L0yEuQUxm/xZmNQXDk+uaiu9VGV8U= =omZK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 10:08:57 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 14:08:57 -0300 Subject: GNU's "anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments system" Heh. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5755ae27.c7b9370a.3efa.ffffb9ca@mx.google.com> This isn't news. It does highlight a very important fact though. A fair amount of advocates of 'free' sofware are very dangerous, statist pieces of shit, like stallman and the rest of hist cult. > > > The Register > > > > GNU cryptocurrency aims at 'the mainstream economy not the black > market' > > > GNU and an outfit called “Inria” have released Alpha code – version > 0.0.0 to be precise – of an anonymous-but-taxable electronic payments > system they say is “a currency for the mainstream economy, and not > the black market.” > > “Taler”, as the effort is dubbed, looks to be an attempt to build on > the concepts behind Bitcoin. So while Taler lets you use encrypted > “coins” as a means of exchange, it is explicitly not a new currency. > Instead, it “... uses an electronic exchange holding financial > reserves in existing currencies.” > > “This means that Taler is not a new currency with the inherent > currency fluctuation risks, but instead the cryptographic coins > correspond to existing currencies, such as US Dollars, Euros or even > BitCoins.” > > The technology is also designed to be open enough that governments > can peer inside, levy “sales, value-added or income taxes”. > > As a GNU project, the code is of course freely-available. > > For now, the effort is in its very early stages. GNU even warns, in > the announcement of the project's debut, that “There is no auditor, > and hence components do not properly support auditors either. As a > result, a dishonest exchange could embezzle funds.” There's also no > real-world integration at present, “so only toy currencies are > available for now.” > > If you're interested regardless of those foibles, the 0.0.0 code does > include “key components providing logic for running a bank, exchange, > merchant and wallet.” That code is described as follows: > > • Exchange implements the full Taler protocol, but does not > integrate with traditional banking systems (only with Taler's own > "bank"). • Wallet can withdraw and spend coins, but does not yet > handle refreshing, refunding, synchronizing, or export of > cryptographic proofs. Some error handling may be insufficient. The > wallet was only tested with Chrome/Chromium. • Merchant backend can > generate contracts and handle payments, but does not yet offer full > back-office support for tracking payments received. Frontend examples > are available in Python and PHP. • The bank can manage accounts, > allows the wallet to withdraw funds and can receive payments from the > exchange. Inria and GNU hope to have more advanced versions of Taler > to share by year's end. > > When they do, it may well be game on in the cryptocurrency space: > Taler's already used fighting words with its “mainstream, not black > market” talk. Bitcoin's many admirers may take offence at that kind > of language and point to strong adoption. Sceptics can point to > security woes among Bitcoin exchanges, governance woes and the > cryptocurrency's volatility as evidence that different approaches to > electronic currencies probably won't hurt their evolution. ® From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 05:17:14 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:17:14 +0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Has anyone HEARD from IOError since his last tweet? In-Reply-To: <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> References: <51c9eb8d-bcfc-cce0-02b8-18c4c544a7de@cajuntechie.org> <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> Message-ID: Unambiguous and comprehensive response from Jacob Appelbaum himself to all this dirty slander toward him! If this kind of response "does not enough" for you, people, - just go fuck yourself. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soorlp Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror 6th Jun 2016 from TwitLonger Berlin, June 6, 2016 In the past few days, a calculated and targeted attack has been launched to spread vicious and spurious allegations against me. Given the way these accusations have been handled, I had little choice but to resign from my position as an advocate at the Tor Project and devote my full attention to completing my doctoral work on cryptography at the Technical University of Eindhoven. Vague rumors and smear campaigns against me are nothing new. As a longtime public advocate for free speech and a secure internet, there have been plenty of attempts to undermine my work over the years. Now, however, these unsubstantiated and unfounded attacks have become so aggressive that I feel it’s necessary to set the record straight. Not only have I been the target of a fake website in my name that has falsely accused me of serious crimes, but I have also received death threats (including a Twitter handle entitled ‘TimeToDieJake’). I think it’s extremely damaging to the community that these character-assassination tactics are being deployed, especially given their ugly history of being used against fellow members of the LGBT community. It pains me to watch the community to which I’ve dedicated so much of my life engage in such self-destructive behavior. Nonetheless, I am prepared to use legal channels, if necessary, to defend my reputation from these libelous accusations. I want to be clear: the accusations of criminal sexual misconduct against me are entirely false. Inevitably, there may have been moments in my professional or private life when I may have inadvertently hurt or offended others’ feelings. Whenever I was aware of these instances, I have, and will continue to, apologize to the friends and colleagues in question and to continually learn how to be a better person. Though the damage to my reputation caused by these allegations alone is impossible to undo, I nonetheless take the concerns of the Tor community seriously. To dispel any further rumors, to the best of my knowledge, the Tor network is not ‘compromised.’ I’ve dedicated my life as a journalist, activist, and longtime member of the Tor Project to advocating for the transparency of public processes and to speaking out about the necessity of privacy, security, and anonymity. These are ideals that I will continue to uphold, despite the vicious campaign that is currently being waged against me. Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2910 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 05:18:05 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:18:05 +0300 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Unambiguous and comprehensive response from Jacob Appelbaum himself to all this dirty slander toward him! If this kind of response "does not enough" for you, people, - just go fuck yourself. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soorlp Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror 6th Jun 2016 from TwitLonger Berlin, June 6, 2016 In the past few days, a calculated and targeted attack has been launched to spread vicious and spurious allegations against me. Given the way these accusations have been handled, I had little choice but to resign from my position as an advocate at the Tor Project and devote my full attention to completing my doctoral work on cryptography at the Technical University of Eindhoven. Vague rumors and smear campaigns against me are nothing new. As a longtime public advocate for free speech and a secure internet, there have been plenty of attempts to undermine my work over the years. Now, however, these unsubstantiated and unfounded attacks have become so aggressive that I feel it’s necessary to set the record straight. Not only have I been the target of a fake website in my name that has falsely accused me of serious crimes, but I have also received death threats (including a Twitter handle entitled ‘TimeToDieJake’). I think it’s extremely damaging to the community that these character-assassination tactics are being deployed, especially given their ugly history of being used against fellow members of the LGBT community. It pains me to watch the community to which I’ve dedicated so much of my life engage in such self-destructive behavior. Nonetheless, I am prepared to use legal channels, if necessary, to defend my reputation from these libelous accusations. I want to be clear: the accusations of criminal sexual misconduct against me are entirely false. Inevitably, there may have been moments in my professional or private life when I may have inadvertently hurt or offended others’ feelings. Whenever I was aware of these instances, I have, and will continue to, apologize to the friends and colleagues in question and to continually learn how to be a better person. Though the damage to my reputation caused by these allegations alone is impossible to undo, I nonetheless take the concerns of the Tor community seriously. To dispel any further rumors, to the best of my knowledge, the Tor network is not ‘compromised.’ I’ve dedicated my life as a journalist, activist, and longtime member of the Tor Project to advocating for the transparency of public processes and to speaking out about the necessity of privacy, security, and anonymity. These are ideals that I will continue to uphold, despite the vicious campaign that is currently being waged against me. Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2952 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 11:21:48 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:21:48 -0300 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <5755bf35.c6b08c0a.f505f.4c8c@mx.google.com> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:00:06 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > To the people who "know" that TOR is a complete sham designed to > compromise unwary users, Appelbaum ranks with Hitler, 1) tor was created and is still funded by the US military. 2) the US military created tor to allow them to hide part of their 'intelligence gathering' activities, spying and the like. 3) if only people from the US government connected to tor then the network would be useless. It would be obvious for any observer that activity from the tor network came from the US government. That is the exact reason why tor needs a large and diverse user base. So, what the people responsible for tor (syverson, dingledine, appelbaum...etc) did is setting up a system that allows the US government/military to be anonymous **using ordinary people like you and me as cover**. 4) last but not least, the anonimity that tor provides for ordinary people is limited. The US government can 'deanonymize' tor users (and especially 'hidden' services) because they can monitor a large part of the internet. In a sense tor is completely 'backdoored', by design. So Steve tell me that tor isn't a complete sham. Well you could or course argue that being only a 97% sham proves your point... From danimoth at cryptolab.net Mon Jun 6 06:28:11 2016 From: danimoth at cryptolab.net (danimoth) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:28:11 +0200 Subject: [tor-talk] Has anyone HEARD from IOError since his last tweet? In-Reply-To: References: <51c9eb8d-bcfc-cce0-02b8-18c4c544a7de@cajuntechie.org> <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> Message-ID: <20160606132811.GA5193@miyamoto> On 06/06/16 at 03:17pm, Александр wrote: > Unambiguous and comprehensive response from Jacob Appelbaum himself to all > this dirty slander toward him! > If this kind of response "does not enough" for you, people, - just go fuck > yourself. [cut] Should Russia propose to him a diplomatic status, in order for him to go there and then be protected by the great brotherood of Great Mother Russia? Please I want to be saved by Russians and I still believe that Russia extents from the Pacific to the Atlantic (Portugal side). I pray for the mother russia all the days. OT: I don't know why - simply - there's no lawyer involved for these claims. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 11:43:07 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:43:07 -0300 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > > Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which > could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the number of > hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would improve it > greatly.  TOR is a net positive, Yes, a net positive. Don't you love the US military Jim? They created the infrastructure for cypherpunks to overthrow the US government (and military) by means of a prediction market. Right? > but that should not be at the > expense of continuing improvements.             Jim Bell From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 11:47:59 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 15:47:59 -0300 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > > Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which > could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the number of > hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would improve it > greatly.  TOR is a net positive, Or let's try this : Tor is a crass example of controlled opposition. No doubt controlled opposition is a net positive...for the establishment. And so it must be a net negative for the opposition. > but that should not be at the > expense of continuing improvements.             Jim Bell From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 6 11:23:17 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Steve Kinney On 06/06/2016 08:18 AM, Александр wrote: > Unambiguous and comprehensive response from Jacob Appelbaum himself > to all this dirty slander toward him! If this kind of response > "does not enough" for you, people, - just go fuck yourself. > > http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soorlp > > Jacob Appelbaum · @ioerror 6th Jun 2016 from TwitLonger Berlin, > June 6, 2016 >To the people who "know" that TOR is a complete sham designed to >compromise unwary users, Appelbaum ranks with Hitler, Stalin and >Attila the Hun.  To those who "know" that TOR is the bestest weapon in >the whole Freedom Fighter arsenal, he is the noblest of heroes.  Both >views are dead wrong.  Whether TOR is harmful or helpful depends >entirely on how well its users understand both what it does, and what >their potential adversaries can do about it. Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the number of hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would improve it greatly.  TOR is a net positive, but that should not be at the expense of continuing improvements.             Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2777 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 6 19:33:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:33:36 -0700 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57563280.8070206@riseup.net> From a stupid simple persec POV Tor buys you time... to make a run for it... or whatever. That's the best you can ever hope for. Use the time wisely. Revolutionaries are dead men on furlough, and so are whistle-blowers. Rr On 06/06/2016 05:25 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > > On 06/06/2016 02:47 PM, juan wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) jim bell > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements > >> which could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the > >> number of hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would > >> improve it greatly. TOR is a net positive, > > > Or let's try this : > > > Tor is a crass example of controlled opposition. No doubt > > controlled opposition is a net positive...for the establishment. > > And so it must be a net negative for the opposition. > > Since nobody asked, here's a description of why neither TOR nor any > other existing or presently planned anonymizing protocol I know of can > be relied on to conceal a user's identity from the Five Eyes or any of > several other hostile actors. I surface this concept every year or > so, but so far nobody seems interested in discussing it. Maybe it's > just too discouraging to think about. No matter who created it or > why, TOR and similar mix networks are at best security theater, > relative to top tier State adversaries. > > Quoting myself from an earlier post: > > Anonymized routing protocols are designed to defeat passive > observation and limited traffic manipulation by hostile actors. But > what if an effectively unlimited number of compromised routers, > subject to realtime observation and internal manipulation, were > available to hostile actors? Game over, I think. > > About 15 years ago I used online traceroute utilities and whois > lookups to determine (roughly) where all the high performing Mixmaster > remailers were physically located. Over half of them, including most > with "exotic sounding" TLDs, were apparently in the state of Texas. > > Then I used my data to construct "hard to compromise" chains, routing > Mixmaster messages through national jurisdictions not likely to have > comprehensive data sharing between their security services, and > started sending test messages. None of these test messages ever made > it back to me. > > So I concluded that, despite its major technical superiority to other > anonymized networking protocols, the Mixmaster network was most likely > compromised by passive observation (one owner for a majority of > reliable remailers) and active intervention (traffic between > uncontrolled remailers interrupted in transit). > > Owning enough of the routers in an anonymizing network to negate its > security is largely a question of money: How much budget to you have, > how certain do you want to be that nobody is really anonymous? > > If I had to neutralize an anonymous routing network, my approach would > be to set up a cloud server running thousands of instances of the > router software in question, customized to facilitate monitoring by a > hypervisor. Each of these routers would be connected via VPN to a > unique remote host, which would function as a transparent proxy. The > proxy hosts could be machines owned by "friendly" actors, rooted > consumer grade routers, purpose built appliances, conventional Windows > botnets or some combination of these. > > I have not seen this method of attack described and named; I call it a > "hydra" attack, because one body, many heads. I think this mode of > attack deserves competent attention (i.e., not by me) because realtime > observation and manipulation of any desired quantity of routers would > provide solutions to any distributed anonymous routing protocol. > > The only defense I can think of is to assure that message traffic > passes back and forth between mutually hostile national jurisdictions > before delivery. This would be a bit of a hairball to implement, lots > of slippery variables and potential counter-actions by hostiles would > have to be taken into account. But this approach could increase the > cost and reduce the reliability of Hydra attacks against anonymizing > protocols. Somewhat. Probably not enough for "life safety" application > s. > > Long story short: If you want to be /really/ anonymous in the > presence of hostile State sponsored actors, do not rely on a > software-only approach: Use physical security measures to conceal > your identity from the physical router that connects you to the > Internet, because most or all of the anonymizing routers your traffic > passes through may be owned and controlled by the very people you are > hiding from. > > :o/ > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6179 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jun 6 17:25:49 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:25:49 -0400 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/06/2016 02:47 PM, juan wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) jim bell > wrote: > > >> >> Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements >> which could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the >> number of hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would >> improve it greatly. TOR is a net positive, > > Or let's try this : > > Tor is a crass example of controlled opposition. No doubt > controlled opposition is a net positive...for the establishment. > And so it must be a net negative for the opposition. Since nobody asked, here's a description of why neither TOR nor any other existing or presently planned anonymizing protocol I know of can be relied on to conceal a user's identity from the Five Eyes or any of several other hostile actors. I surface this concept every year or so, but so far nobody seems interested in discussing it. Maybe it's just too discouraging to think about. No matter who created it or why, TOR and similar mix networks are at best security theater, relative to top tier State adversaries. Quoting myself from an earlier post: Anonymized routing protocols are designed to defeat passive observation and limited traffic manipulation by hostile actors. But what if an effectively unlimited number of compromised routers, subject to realtime observation and internal manipulation, were available to hostile actors? Game over, I think. About 15 years ago I used online traceroute utilities and whois lookups to determine (roughly) where all the high performing Mixmaster remailers were physically located. Over half of them, including most with "exotic sounding" TLDs, were apparently in the state of Texas. Then I used my data to construct "hard to compromise" chains, routing Mixmaster messages through national jurisdictions not likely to have comprehensive data sharing between their security services, and started sending test messages. None of these test messages ever made it back to me. So I concluded that, despite its major technical superiority to other anonymized networking protocols, the Mixmaster network was most likely compromised by passive observation (one owner for a majority of reliable remailers) and active intervention (traffic between uncontrolled remailers interrupted in transit). Owning enough of the routers in an anonymizing network to negate its security is largely a question of money: How much budget to you have, how certain do you want to be that nobody is really anonymous? If I had to neutralize an anonymous routing network, my approach would be to set up a cloud server running thousands of instances of the router software in question, customized to facilitate monitoring by a hypervisor. Each of these routers would be connected via VPN to a unique remote host, which would function as a transparent proxy. The proxy hosts could be machines owned by "friendly" actors, rooted consumer grade routers, purpose built appliances, conventional Windows botnets or some combination of these. I have not seen this method of attack described and named; I call it a "hydra" attack, because one body, many heads. I think this mode of attack deserves competent attention (i.e., not by me) because realtime observation and manipulation of any desired quantity of routers would provide solutions to any distributed anonymous routing protocol. The only defense I can think of is to assure that message traffic passes back and forth between mutually hostile national jurisdictions before delivery. This would be a bit of a hairball to implement, lots of slippery variables and potential counter-actions by hostiles would have to be taken into account. But this approach could increase the cost and reduce the reliability of Hydra attacks against anonymizing protocols. Somewhat. Probably not enough for "life safety" application s. Long story short: If you want to be /really/ anonymous in the presence of hostile State sponsored actors, do not rely on a software-only approach: Use physical security measures to conceal your identity from the physical router that connects you to the Internet, because most or all of the anonymizing routers your traffic passes through may be owned and controlled by the very people you are hiding from. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVhSNAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqc4UH/A0eQjkZgAu7vwyiPZrMzBEC H94bqFcewk38iok92fMjHpb5YLg6eYlBr4lShTZsDM2JX+MU9ds5rzpWgs0grkmF P1fikgA5ETRx1WSi87yNbuhSu3mdSJwMnGrpk+b2NeagsHrlIgO4WrMXDWGPb03J 4efRo54mntY+pSIflfw+AKkhR8UxHKVCKSsABnCrXC0OxbV3BgDWyUJ1tunm6Rdg EvDsHLjJsMe0M0AzAw2mJwxX6aQ2dIMiHnCy8ZF3Gvn0ri8IliA/vFVjj/RkZMk0 MmUYcFRy3h0RbPBW2pGCLPiYtiIhvyW3XR1/Yzli5VlqkXpQbkvrel+XtNLj2Rc= =1cfu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 21:48:24 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 00:48:24 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc Message-ID: On 6/6/16, Steve Kinney wrote: > Since nobody asked, here's a description of why neither TOR nor any > other existing or presently planned anonymizing protocol I know of can > be relied on to conceal a user's identity from the Five Eyes or any of > several other hostile actors. I surface this concept every year or > so, but so far nobody seems interested in discussing it. Maybe it's > just too discouraging to think about. No matter who created it or > why, TOR and similar mix networks are at best security theater, > relative to top tier State adversaries. > > what if an effectively unlimited number of compromised routers, > subject to realtime observation and internal manipulation, were > available to hostile actors? Game over, I think. > > About 15 years ago I used online traceroute utilities and whois > lookups to determine (roughly) where all the high performing Mixmaster > remailers were physically located. Over half of them, including most > with "exotic sounding" TLDs, were apparently in the state of Texas. > > Then I used my data to construct "hard to compromise" chains, routing > Mixmaster messages through national jurisdictions not likely to have > comprehensive data sharing between their security services, and > started sending test messages. None of these test messages ever made > it back to me. > > So I concluded that, despite its major technical superiority to other > anonymized networking protocols, the Mixmaster network was most likely > compromised by passive observation (one owner for a majority of > reliable remailers) and active intervention (traffic between > uncontrolled remailers interrupted in transit). > > Owning enough of the routers in an anonymizing network to negate its > security is largely a question of money: How much budget to you have, > how certain do you want to be that nobody is really anonymous? While money can buy shill humans to stand in, as below, it's costly, and casual human interactions by multiple signers reviewing them may expose them to risk. > proxy hosts could be machines owned by "friendly" actors, rooted > consumer grade routers, purpose built appliances, conventional Windows > botnets or some combination of these. Govt seems to have no issue doing such illegal / unethical things. And they certainly can use their own network, tor, to do it. > The only defense I can think of is to assure that message traffic > passes back and forth between mutually hostile national jurisdictions > before delivery. This is suggested often on tor-talk. And tor devs continually pass on it. > This would be a bit of a hairball to implement Not really. Tor already loads GeoIP. So 20 or so lines of code and you've got a separate country for each hop. A few more lines to define groups like FVEY / BRICS, hemispheres, regions, AS, etc. Users could isolate on whatever they wanted. And a bunch more lines to include attributes as to "verified to be a human node operator in person" pki web of trust into the consensus. At least that way it raises the cost and risk to adversaries who today just use their Govt credit card to order up VPS nodes all over the world. Does it benefit? Tor devs say trust the random node selection. Others say at least some subset of users know the / their environment better and could use such tools to advantage. Tor still refuses to do it. So like mixmaster, you have to do it yourself. That sucks. It could stand to be talked over a bit more. > have to be taken into account. But this approach could increase the > cost and reduce the reliability of Hydra attacks against anonymizing > Long story short: If you want to be /really/ anonymous in the > presence of hostile State sponsored actors, do not rely on a > software-only approach: Use physical security measures to conceal > your identity from the physical router that connects you to the > Internet > No "airtight" security protocol has ever survived contact > with end users. password:12345, lol. From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 22:07:37 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 01:07:37 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Has anyone HEARD from IOError since his last tweet? In-Reply-To: <5755c126.010b370a.6c6f.ffffcd26@mx.google.com> References: <51c9eb8d-bcfc-cce0-02b8-18c4c544a7de@cajuntechie.org> <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> <5755c126.010b370a.6c6f.ffffcd26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/16, juan wrote: > The accussations are false, yet he leaves the oh so amazing tor > project, AND his own bosses throw him under the bus? > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > Something doesn't add up. Perhaps the adversary grew weary / wary of its useful idiot. Perhaps the useful idiot was too pure / against the system, which itself just went through a change of its own guard. Perhaps the useful idiot discovered a secret. The system is mind control. Yet within the mindless babble of idiots lies a certain insight. Listen to them. From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 08:49:51 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:49:51 -0700 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> Message-ID: <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 06:55 AM, J.M. Porup wrote: > On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 08:25:49PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: >> Since nobody asked, here's a description of why neither TOR nor any >> other existing or presently planned anonymizing protocol I know of can >> be relied on to conceal a user's identity from the Five Eyes or any of >> several other hostile actors. > I wrote about the Dissent Project last year: > > https://motherboard.vice.com/read/dissent-a-new-type-of-security-tool-could-markedly-improve-online-anonymity > > project home page: > > http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/ > > Serious project, led by Bryan Ford at EPFL. Roger Dingledine said nice > things about it. > > Project seems to lack momentum, but could offer cryptographically- > provable anonymity guarantees, as long as real-time comms is not the > use case. > > jmp > > > SOMEONE'S got to spew here about Yale's connection to the CIA... Juan? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jm at porup.com Tue Jun 7 06:55:16 2016 From: jm at porup.com (J.M. Porup) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:55:16 -0400 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 08:25:49PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > Since nobody asked, here's a description of why neither TOR nor any > other existing or presently planned anonymizing protocol I know of can > be relied on to conceal a user's identity from the Five Eyes or any of > several other hostile actors. I wrote about the Dissent Project last year: https://motherboard.vice.com/read/dissent-a-new-type-of-security-tool-could-markedly-improve-online-anonymity project home page: http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/ Serious project, led by Bryan Ford at EPFL. Roger Dingledine said nice things about it. Project seems to lack momentum, but could offer cryptographically- provable anonymity guarantees, as long as real-time comms is not the use case. jmp From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 10:49:05 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:49:05 -0700 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 09:52 AM, juan wrote: > So rayzer what don't you tell us about your connections to your government? Oh... That's easy. I have none. Although I WAS stalked by capt Finnegan, the Silver Fox and his thugboys from the NYPD's Bureau of Special Services (Red Squad) as a teen antiwar activist in the 60s, so I'm SURE there's an FBI jacket on me somewhere, but I've never filed an FOIA to find out what they knew besides my dad's Mil NASA clearance they tried to threaten as blackmail, and honestly, i DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF THEY SPOOK ME. I figure it gives 'them that's doin' breathing space. 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 11:25:47 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 11:25:47 -0700 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <57570a67.c5858c0a.f4cd9.ffff8430@mx.google.com> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> <57570a67.c5858c0a.f4cd9.ffff8430@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575711AB.6060701@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 10:54 AM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:49:05 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 06/07/2016 09:52 AM, juan wrote: >>> So rayzer what don't you tell us about your connections to your >>> government? >> Oh... That's easy. I have none. > Sure. The kind of garbage you post in this list is just 'a > mistake'. > > Umn... You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of orchestrated institutional slander? Is that the kind of mistake you mean? ICYWondered... The reason I noted it so quickly is because Institutional Slander campaigns aren't new, and they certainly aren't something that showed up with the advent of intertubz, and I was anti-gov prolly before you were born and I've seen it ALL before. Including trolls who clutter up lists with spew to cause people to unsub or not read. That's you Juan. Although it's true SOME PEOPLE need the comic levity you provide... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 09:52:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 13:52:15 -0300 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 08:49:51 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > SOMEONE'S got to spew here about Yale's connection to the CIA... > > Juan? > So rayzer what don't you tell us about your connections to your government? As to 'dissent', last time I checked it was designed so as to make censorship extremely easy. Admitedly I took a look at it a few years ago and maybe I overlooked something. ps: you don't seem to know the A of the ABC of american society. American society is *the* poster child for corporatism/fascism. The cooperation between the 'privte' sector and the 'public' sector is complete. Only a government agent would suggest that an american university isn't fully in bed with the american government. > Rr > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 10:43:02 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:43:02 -0300 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> Message-ID: <5757079b.48e78c0a.ef0aa.ffff8610@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:55:16 -0400 "J.M. Porup" wrote: > > http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/ > "Dissent can guarantee that each user of an online forum gets exactly one bandwidth share, one vote, or one pseudonym, which other users can block in the event of misbehavior. " Translation : 'dissent' offers FULL CENSORSHIP CAPABILITIES. Ever heard of 1984? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 10:53:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:53:41 -0300 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> Message-ID: <57570a1b.262fed0a.e5e92.ffff8d1a@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 09:55:16 -0400 "J.M. Porup" wrote: > > http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/ > AAANNNNDDDD, I had missed this nugget : Key Collaborators Aaron Johnson Paul Syverson Nothing says 'dissent' like a closely knit mafia of scumbags working for the US navy. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 10:54:57 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:54:57 -0300 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57570a67.c5858c0a.f4cd9.ffff8430@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:49:05 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/07/2016 09:52 AM, juan wrote: > > So rayzer what don't you tell us about your connections to your > > government? > > Oh... That's easy. I have none. Sure. The kind of garbage you post in this list is just 'a mistake'. From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jun 7 11:59:26 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:59:26 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/07/2016 12:48 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/6/16, Steve Kinney wrote: [...] >> The only defense I can think of is to assure that message >> traffic passes back and forth between mutually hostile national >> jurisdictions before delivery. > > This is suggested often on tor-talk. And tor devs continually pass > on it. > >> This would be a bit of a hairball to implement > > Not really. Tor already loads GeoIP. So 20 or so lines of code and > you've got a separate country for each hop. A few more lines to > define groups like FVEY / BRICS, hemispheres, regions, AS, etc. > Users could isolate on whatever they wanted. > > And a bunch more lines to include attributes as to "verified to be > a human node operator in person" pki web of trust into the > consensus. At least that way it raises the cost and risk to > adversaries who today just use their Govt credit card to order up > VPS nodes all over the world. Making users prove they are human without disclosing any personally identifying information is not an easy task. As far as I know, nobody has found a way to do it. The closest the IT industries have come so far is the CAPTCHA. Automated CAPTCHA breaking methods include forwarding the challenge image, puzzle or etc. to 3rd party websites where users solve CAPTCHAS to access content, and submitting those users' solutions back the site your automated gadget wants to fool. > Does it benefit? Tor devs say trust the random node selection. > Others say at least some subset of users know the / their > environment better and could use such tools to advantage. > > Tor still refuses to do it. So like mixmaster, you have to do it > yourself. That sucks. It could stand to be talked over a bit more. Routing TOR traffic back and forth across mutually hostile borders would indeed be easy to do. It only requires, as Dr. Strangelove would say, The WILL to do so! However, this would lead to... >> lots of slippery variables and potential counter-actions by >> hostiles that would have to be taken into account. The State Department funds TOR to defeat national firewalls of "repressive regimes", enabling communication favorable to the U.S. National Interest. TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used against the National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks. But apparently State, CIA etc. will not give TOR up, because of its role in the development and management of dissident groups in countries slated for destruction. A really big bump in TOR traffic crossing the borders of "repressive regimes" could create traffic jams that degrade TOR's performance right where the State Department wants TOR to work best, and escalate the arms race between TOR and the operators of national firewall filters. This would shift the cost/benefit ratio for TOR's sponsors in the wrong direction. Hence "hairball." One possible solution would be to build privacy directly into Internet protocols. That could drive the costs associated with network surveillance way up compared to today's rates, while making TOR and etc. redundant. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6973 Of course, every State and Corporate stakeholder will unite against implementing any such scheme, even if practicable solutions are found. But someday, somewhere a window of opportunity might open up, and meanwhile "there's no such thing as wasted basic research." :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVxmOAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfwEIAJRNYp3byLHPUiU/hXhGbjR2 BgXN0IiXO7PnU1tRBmaeXaBSt6Bb51XlZzSiD1pa76GOMFnF8aGEaZnucPxUUnat 0LagY7w6XtX1WoOQPvaoQxij5EPkrfaU3Wk+OErcF4dW96/w7KV7RFUayQMs1zD9 O8MUstF89RaE1eDU8Iw+EqhvUdcZoDVwkTluq6xwLrNBxz4lRmWAr/5CuFrx8Z5J Y2IQ21VZctYUO0lbVljh4TfF4mSvS68ddZVlfmZbmpjHZYQWSJFTmnrkgRLRtzoQ HkWlyrxZQ1hqkUt0tp8iQSISj/RrRtm9U1SuR9sZWQNXs/D6jFlu6u7l+j9nhNM= =KYGq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 11:46:54 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:46:54 -0300 Subject: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <575711AB.6060701@riseup.net> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> <57570a67.c5858c0a.f4cd9.ffff8430@mx.google.com> <575711AB.6060701@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57571696.a9148c0a.da6fb.5afc@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 11:25:47 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/07/2016 10:54 AM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 10:49:05 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> > >> On 06/07/2016 09:52 AM, juan wrote: > >>> So rayzer what don't you tell us about your connections to your > >>> government? > >> Oh... That's easy. I have none. > > Sure. The kind of garbage you post in this list is just 'a > > mistake'. > > > > > > Umn... You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of > orchestrated institutional slander? Slander by the tor project[1] you mean? [1] https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele By now you must have realized that the tor project threw appelbaum under the bus? You and the vast majority of people on this list and in the 'hacker' 'community' ignore the fact that the tor is a project of the US military and that it doesn't really work, except as a tool for the US military. Now, your beloved tor project is showing that it's not only controlled by right-wingers from the pentagon. There's also a faction of lefty fascists and champions of 'social justice'. ` Failing to see his stuff or not giving a shit about it looks like a big 'mistake' to me. > > Is that the kind of mistake you mean? > > ICYWondered... The reason I noted it so quickly is because > Institutional Slander campaigns aren't new, and they certainly aren't > something that showed up with the advent of intertubz, and I was > anti-gov prolly before you were born and I've seen it ALL before. > Including trolls who clutter up lists with spew to cause people to > unsub or not read. > > That's you Juan. Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. Although it's true SOME PEOPLE need the comic levity > you provide... > > Rr > From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jun 7 13:00:29 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 16:00:29 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/07/2016 03:13 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:59:26 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: >> TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used against the >> National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks. > > False, please do not post garbage. By now any 'observer' should > realize that the nsa is a 'fully capable' 'global passive > adversary' - In no way tor can be used against the **US** national > interest. > > HELL, even tor scumbags admit it > > http://www.nrl.navy.mil/itd/chacs/biblio/users-get-routed-traffic-corr elation-tor-realistic-adversaries > > Do your fucking homework Steve. Garbage, please do not post "False." TOR can be used effectively as a component in tactical security protocols, because TOR can prevent identification of users who do brief hit-and-run network access via physical routers not associated with the users in question. And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence services. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVyfdAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqpCcH/RMepc8NDnZvDSnd2Q05eK67 orX2TIlhE3Ee4XHR03Dqm7jmltWok7JkHkBT6BHTuFLuW2p3AGyxp7aDqCZYjeTA YtowxSR8uOirsAqvAt3FmHln9kvdhsagu3Chsubp3jaMx+vymoPtGOUqBwvgdVMP WNcGREwX6Za8/PJ4gfp/fWXpgaOwsFoRGaU6qvYmemtzug2kxuPrbn+7XcPKgJAg rwIkjbnd0kjYp8UUazLnSu7cIlM+HL89qEE/0fi+SWz6vQ8YyQXW3sDffZ15Nt5p u79cHC/cRdQpMWdvTjvVs7ALPtvCSpBMdOcy3vbNiclKa9RSUVcfEI6tyrGZitY= =3uG5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 12:13:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 16:13:31 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:59:26 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > The State Department funds TOR to defeat national firewalls of > "repressive regimes", enabling communication favorable to the U.S. > National Interest. true > TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used > against the National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks. False, please do not post garbage. By now any 'observer' should realize that the nsa is a 'fully capable' 'global passive adversary' - In no way tor can be used against the **US** national interest. HELL, even tor scumbags admit it http://www.nrl.navy.mil/itd/chacs/biblio/users-get-routed-traffic-correlation-tor-realistic-adversaries Do your fucking homework Steve. > But > apparently State, CIA etc. will not give TOR up, because of its role > in the development and management of dissident groups in countries > slated for destruction. There's absolutely no reason for the US government to give up tor since it's perfectly working AS DESIGNED AND INTENDED. > > A really big bump in TOR traffic crossing the borders of "repressive > regimes" could create traffic jams that degrade TOR's performance > right where the State Department wants TOR to work best, and escalate > the arms race between TOR and the operators of national firewall > filters. This would shift the cost/benefit ratio for TOR's sponsors > in the wrong direction. Hence "hairball." > > One possible solution would be to build privacy directly into Internet > protocols. That could drive the costs associated with network > surveillance way up compared to today's rates, while making TOR and > etc. redundant. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6973 > > Of course, every State and Corporate stakeholder will unite against > implementing any such scheme, even if practicable solutions are found. > But someday, somewhere a window of opportunity might open up, and > meanwhile "there's no such thing as wasted basic research." > > :o/ > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVxmOAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfwEIAJRNYp3byLHPUiU/hXhGbjR2 > BgXN0IiXO7PnU1tRBmaeXaBSt6Bb51XlZzSiD1pa76GOMFnF8aGEaZnucPxUUnat > 0LagY7w6XtX1WoOQPvaoQxij5EPkrfaU3Wk+OErcF4dW96/w7KV7RFUayQMs1zD9 > O8MUstF89RaE1eDU8Iw+EqhvUdcZoDVwkTluq6xwLrNBxz4lRmWAr/5CuFrx8Z5J > Y2IQ21VZctYUO0lbVljh4TfF4mSvS68ddZVlfmZbmpjHZYQWSJFTmnrkgRLRtzoQ > HkWlyrxZQ1hqkUt0tp8iQSISj/RrRtm9U1SuR9sZWQNXs/D6jFlu6u7l+j9nhNM= > =KYGq > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 12:56:58 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 16:56:58 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror In-Reply-To: References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:43:46 +0300 Cari Machet wrote: > The dead rise Well, at least they got something right. They indeed are a cult. A group of intellectual frauds. ] > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "ja.talk" > Date: Jun 7, 2016 10:10 PM > Subject: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob > Appelbaum / ioerror > To: > Cc: > > https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2853643-Jacob-Appelbaum-CULT-of-the-DEAD-COW-Statement.html > https://www.facebook.com/cultdeadcow/posts/10157076402890360 > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > 06-June-2016 > > CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror > > Like much of the hacker community, we were troubled to hear the > allegations of sexual abuse, manipulation, and bullying leveled > against one of our members, Jacob Appelbaum, A.K.A. ioerror. We’re > also aware that the Tor Project is conducting an internal > investigation, and encourage anyone with relevant testimony to come > forward. For some, it won’t be easy. There can be shaming or > humiliation, or the fear of not being believed. > > It is also our responsibility to create an environment where people > feel safe to come forward. We have always stood for freedom of speech > and expression, which sometimes necessitates the right to anonymity. > This is something that victims of abuse often require. We stand by > their right to be anonymous. Others, like our friend Nick Farr, who > decided to go public with his own difficulties, deserve our respect > and support. Everyone will do this in their own way. > > We know that it may be scary, but we also encourage victims to contact > their appropriate local authorities. We understand the complicated > relationship we all have with law enforcement, but there is a time and > place for government intervention. If the most extreme of these > allegations are true, they should be addressed in a court of law, and > dealt with appropriately. > > CULT OF THE DEAD COW is known for a lot of things, but treating people > horribly is not one of them. If communities are to thrive and remain > relevant we have to do some housecleaning from time to time. As we > have become aware of the anonymous accusations of sexual assault, as > well as the stories told by individuals we know and trust, we've > decided to remove Jake from the herd effective immediately. > > EOM > -- > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 13:09:46 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 17:09:46 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 16:00:29 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 06/07/2016 03:13 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 14:59:26 -0400 Steve Kinney > > wrote: > > >> TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used against the > >> National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks. > > > > False, please do not post garbage. By now any 'observer' should > > realize that the nsa is a 'fully capable' 'global passive > > adversary' - In no way tor can be used against the **US** national > > interest. > > > > HELL, even tor scumbags admit it > > > > http://www.nrl.navy.mil/itd/chacs/biblio/users-get-routed-traffic-corr > elation-tor-realistic-adversaries > > > > Do your fucking homework Steve. > > Garbage, please do not post "False." Take it up with fucking syverson steve. It's quite interesting that the highest capo mafioso from tor admits it doesn't work and yet you deny it. > TOR can be used effectively as a > component in tactical security protocols, because TOR can prevent > identification of users who do brief hit-and-run network access via > physical routers not associated with the users in question. like any cheap VPN or proxy cnt. > > And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against adversaries who > are /not/ top tier signals intelligence services. Which is not the point, motherfucker. > > :o) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXVyfdAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqpCcH/RMepc8NDnZvDSnd2Q05eK67 > orX2TIlhE3Ee4XHR03Dqm7jmltWok7JkHkBT6BHTuFLuW2p3AGyxp7aDqCZYjeTA > YtowxSR8uOirsAqvAt3FmHln9kvdhsagu3Chsubp3jaMx+vymoPtGOUqBwvgdVMP > WNcGREwX6Za8/PJ4gfp/fWXpgaOwsFoRGaU6qvYmemtzug2kxuPrbn+7XcPKgJAg > rwIkjbnd0kjYp8UUazLnSu7cIlM+HL89qEE/0fi+SWz6vQ8YyQXW3sDffZ15Nt5p > u79cHC/cRdQpMWdvTjvVs7ALPtvCSpBMdOcy3vbNiclKa9RSUVcfEI6tyrGZitY= > =3uG5 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 13:31:11 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 17:31:11 -0300 Subject: the nature of the internet In-Reply-To: <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 20:05:48 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > > > From: juan > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) > jim bell wrote: > > >Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements > > >which could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the > > >number of hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would > > >improve it greatly.  TOR is a net positive, > > > >    Yes, a net positive. Don't you love the US military Jim? They > >    created the infrastructure for cypherpunks to overthrow the US > >    government (and military) by means of a prediction market. > I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will > eventually be seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government. Not sure if you mean that government embarked in slow motion suicide? Or by suicide-by-government you mean the government will kill us all? (such an outcome is rather likely I believe) If you think that the (government created) internet is going to destroy government, I would like to see both the theory and evidence for the claim. Because what we are seeing right now is the exact opposite. There are tons of evidence showing that the internet is amplifying the power of government in...exactly the way good old Orwell predicted. You are of course free to be as 'optimistic' as you want but I feel curious about the rational grounds for your optimism. > It > wasn't a one-step process, however:  Requring the invention of > higher-speed modems to assist traffic, the World Wide Web, fiber > optics, good encryption, etc.  TOR was/is yet another piece of the > puzzle that will have to be assembled.My attention is on Ethereum and > Augur, which will make the prediction market open. > Nobody will much > care if I donate 0.001 BTC to see the end of [fill in the blank with > the name of your un-favorite politician or government employee.] Why not? Government will know you donated xxx to yyy and hunt you down. That is their job description and business model. >Jim> Bell > > From dreamingforward at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 16:17:15 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:17:15 -0500 Subject: the nature of the internet In-Reply-To: <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice to see some old-timers in the debate. >> Not sure if you mean that government embarked in slow motion > suicide? > Government will kill itself. I'll argue that there is no need NOR *desire* for the government to kill itself, but it will be forced to deal with its weaknesses. Forgive me if these topics have been beaten to death, I've only recently re-entered cypherpunks domain after being away for 20 years. The Constitution was founded on pretty solid principles: liberty and justice for all. If there's any problem with the government, it is because the citizens have become weak, cowardly, or stupid perhaps all three. But indeed the weaknesses of the Law could hardly be analyzed because of the immense power that the legal-political-media establishment had acquired since WWII -- most people had simply adapted (with TV), become numb (via psyche drugs), and were quite content with their beef steak. The problem isn't the government, it's that we have a society of addicts that are farmed for GDP--and hardly anyone knows it because of the reasons given above. The people who DO are mostly at the bottom, beaten down on indian reservations, or in prison already. We really have two problems: 1) the need to address the prior wrongs or history and force the People to deal with themselves, and 2) to correct the weaknesses in the Constitution that allowed these problems to grow into such monstrous proportions. > There are tons of evidence showing that the internet is > amplifying the power of government in...exactly the way good > old Orwell predicted. > The following is still true: > https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/Crypto_misc/crossbows_to_cryptography.paper > The Libertech Project, by Chuck Hamill. Great paper. > You are of course free to be as 'optimistic' as you want but I > feel curious about the rational grounds for your optimism. > > Need I say it yet again? https://cryptome.org/ap.htm > The world has had 21 years to figure out a say to stop it. If as much > effort were put into implementing it as was put into Bitcoin, we'd all be > free today. Jim Bell Great point to remind the younguns, Jim. One major fix to all these problems is to simply change the voting model. The winner-takes-all voting system and the current Constitution REQUIRES the election of incompetence to power. The current system does not allow the full opinion of the electorate to be heard. I know that PoliSci has tried to solve this problem in the past, but it has only *recently* been solved: bi-valent, fractional voting (http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Fractional_Voting). In short, there is no need for primaries. For every candidate on the ballot (say 4), the voter gets a token to allocate however s/he wants, POSITIVE or NEGATIVE on each. If the voter wishes to put ALL 4 against or in support of a candidate they can do so. The key is: if there are no candidates who receive a NET positive vote THERE IS NO ELECTED OFFICIAL for that season and the politics REVERTs back to the next-lower down level of governance (50 regional government, for example). And if the election goes all the way down to city MAYORAL elections and there still is no positive vote for a candidate, the law reverts back to the People until someone gets a fire up their butt to run for office with a real plan and vision that people believe in. Think about it: this single change is simple and dramatic, reasonable, effective, and costs less. Jefferson said to tear down government when it no longer serves us. I say just change the voting model so that people can trust that their opinion means something (votes are simply "in support "and nothing) and that idiots don't get into office with enormous power at their disposal... Cheers! Mark Janssen, PhD Gothenburg, Nebraska From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jun 7 15:51:25 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:51:25 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/07/2016 04:09 PM, juan wrote: >> And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against >> adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence >> services. > > Which is not the point, motherfucker. So in other words, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it? ;o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXV0/tAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqNAwH/jw7D0XvppNYljl/aBLKOxOR Q0UjAM2SrbO0JYhjDdbw7WrPys6jTQ+szRdxwHfoAwcHTEp8nxMcOEhnuoryBYt3 yN7RUApwyuRTJtzcMuqIg+N8/xYI0WeiEYzKXFuu4U3vwfPzi5FrY0Vnfo93jT2W 5Ji5Ike+3A/aYvpb2oryN0ciEuNQ2CQ41f9iuaC9YocQsVsl3mlAlAfGRW1GbXTa 71NxbYvb7W0a8+db4HvvXyn8fn0yhK0Zlmyy0sgioUogmKCJqU+s983NiCT7qxv6 ZUOw3Ul4g0r2BpCM+3R7cCOCVOeNtVnXWBfQCiIp4ron5BcuGCsSveQ0aqELoSM= =L6zN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 19:31:58 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:31:58 -0700 Subject: Fwd: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:49:04 -0300 From: juan To: rayzer at riseup.net > come on rayzer, be 'transparent' like your buddies from the > pentagon and publish your gov't sourced income Juan... I gave you MORE than enough metainfo about me to figure out who or what I am. You've got my approximate age (teen in the 60s) The city I was in in the late 60s The damning fact that the NYPD stalked me and went after my dad's security clearance! That alone ought to be enough to get my jacket out of cold storage. On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: > Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. You pegged me Juan... I'm a Groucho Marxist, and a John Lennonist -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2308 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 15:40:21 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:40:21 -0300 Subject: the nature of the internet In-Reply-To: <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57574d4c.b1568c0a.a518b.717e@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:14:05 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > > > From: juan > >> I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will > > >eventually be seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government. > > >    Not sure if you mean that government embarked in slow motion >     suicide? > Government will kill itself. Is that some kind of libertarian-marxist magical thinking according to which the 'material forces' of 'technology' will magically do what libertarians want? Why is it that technology won't be used to further control people, *exacly like it's being used now*? Sorry about re-stating what I said in my previous message but I don't think I got any meaningful answer. > > >     There are tons of evidence showing that the internet is >     amplifying the power of government in...exactly the way good >     old Orwell predicted. > The following is still true: > https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/Crypto_misc/crossbows_to_cryptography.paper > The Libertech Project, by Chuck Hamill.  I browsed that paper in the past. I see absolutely no coherent theory in it. It's just a bunch of cliches and wishful thinking. Tell me Jim, did the invention of 'personal' firearms meant that ordinary people, serfs and peasants could now defend themselves from the state? Rhetorical question of course and the anwer is a big NO. Why is that the case? > > >     You are of course free to be as 'optimistic' as you want but I >     feel curious about the rational grounds for your optimism. > > > Need I say it yet again?      https://cryptome.org/ap.htm > The world has had 21 years to figure out a say to stop it.  If as > much effort were put into implementing it as was put into Bitcoin, > we'd all be free today.              Bitcoin should provide 'financial freedom' but so far it hasn't. The bigger and yet completely unsolved problem is how to make online communications untraceable. It would seem wise to solve that problem before starting any 'prediction' market. J. >Jim Bell From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 19:47:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:47:43 -0700 Subject: [throwing] cryptographically-provable anonymity [under the bus] In-Reply-To: <57571696.a9148c0a.da6fb.5afc@mx.google.com> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> <20160607135515.GC1120@fedora-21-dvm> <5756ED1F.20203@riseup.net> <5756fbb4.4286370a.9beba.41b3@mx.google.com> <57570911.7060106@riseup.net> <57570a67.c5858c0a.f4cd9.ffff8430@mx.google.com> <575711AB.6060701@riseup.net> <57571696.a9148c0a.da6fb.5afc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5757874F.4030700@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: > Slander by the tor project[1] you mean? [1] > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele By now you must have > realized that the tor project threw appelbaum under the bus? You and > the vast majority of people on this list and in the 'hacker' > 'community' ignore the fact that the tor is a project of the US > military and that it doesn't really work, except as a tool for the US > military. Now, your beloved tor project is showing that it's not only > controlled by right-wingers from the pentagon. There's also a faction > of lefty fascists and champions of 'social justice'. ` Failing to see > his stuff or not giving a shit about it looks like a big 'mistake' to me. A> One person's 'under the bus' is another person's 'distancing'. Steele's post was an industry standard employer liability distancing. The slander originated at a twitter account, and github. How Steele learned of the allegations was most likely direct complaints. The fact the the authorities weren't brought in by torproject pre-emptively (which IS what a company will do if there are criminal allegations) most likely indicates they believed the charges were baseless, but distancing is what you do anyway. B> I know it's a military project and always has been. NOT relevant to the issue of what security you can expect from it. Just because people assume it has some supersecret power doesn't make it fact and I don't believe the tor project claims it's intended to be the only security you need. But honestly. If you use tails with tor on a public library computer miles from where you live to deliver documentation there's no physical trace on any computer anywhere and even IF the exit entrance and ALL THE TOR NODES were pwned by the FBI's DITU crew they STILL wouldn't know who you are or be able to geolocate you accurately. How secure do you need to be Juan? Rr. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 15:59:21 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:59:21 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:51:25 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 06/07/2016 04:09 PM, juan wrote: > > > >> And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against > >> adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence > >> services. > > > > Which is not the point, motherfucker. > > So in other words, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it What am I wrong about, exactly? You can re-read my previous messages and notice all the stuff I said and you ignored. Especially my first message explaining why tor is a scam. THen, read the 'paper' from scumbag syverson. Then, come back. > > ;o) > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXV0/tAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqNAwH/jw7D0XvppNYljl/aBLKOxOR > Q0UjAM2SrbO0JYhjDdbw7WrPys6jTQ+szRdxwHfoAwcHTEp8nxMcOEhnuoryBYt3 > yN7RUApwyuRTJtzcMuqIg+N8/xYI0WeiEYzKXFuu4U3vwfPzi5FrY0Vnfo93jT2W > 5Ji5Ike+3A/aYvpb2oryN0ciEuNQ2CQ41f9iuaC9YocQsVsl3mlAlAfGRW1GbXTa > 71NxbYvb7W0a8+db4HvvXyn8fn0yhK0Zlmyy0sgioUogmKCJqU+s983NiCT7qxv6 > ZUOw3Ul4g0r2BpCM+3R7cCOCVOeNtVnXWBfQCiIp4ron5BcuGCsSveQ0aqELoSM= > =L6zN > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 13:05:48 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 20:05:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: juan On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > >Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which > >could be made to the TOR protocol, such as increasing the number of > >hops, generating fake extra traffic, etc, which would improve it > >greatly.  TOR is a net positive, >    Yes, a net positive. Don't you love the US military Jim? They >    created the infrastructure for cypherpunks to overthrow the US >    government (and military) by means of a prediction market. I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will eventually be seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government.  It wasn't a one-step process, however:  Requring the invention of higher-speed modems to assist traffic, the World Wide Web, fiber optics, good encryption, etc.  TOR was/is yet another piece of the puzzle that will have to be assembled.My attention is on Ethereum and Augur, which will make the prediction market open.  Nobody will much care if I donate 0.001 BTC to see the end of [fill in the blank with the name of your un-favorite politician or government employee.]                 Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 7 15:14:05 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:14:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: the nature of the internet In-Reply-To: <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: juan >> I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will > >eventually be seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government. >    Not sure if you mean that government embarked in slow motion     suicide? Government will kill itself.     There are tons of evidence showing that the internet is     amplifying the power of government in...exactly the way good     old Orwell predicted. The following is still true:   https://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/Crypto_misc/crossbows_to_cryptography.paper The Libertech Project, by Chuck Hamill.      You are of course free to be as 'optimistic' as you want but I     feel curious about the rational grounds for your optimism. Need I say it yet again?      https://cryptome.org/ap.htm The world has had 21 years to figure out a say to stop it.  If as much effort were put into implementing it as was put into Bitcoin, we'd all be free today.             Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carimachet at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 12:43:46 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:43:46 +0300 Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror In-Reply-To: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> Message-ID: The dead rise ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "ja.talk" Date: Jun 7, 2016 10:10 PM Subject: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror To: Cc: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2853643-Jacob-Appelbaum-CULT-of-the-DEAD-COW-Statement.html https://www.facebook.com/cultdeadcow/posts/10157076402890360 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 06-June-2016 CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror Like much of the hacker community, we were troubled to hear the allegations of sexual abuse, manipulation, and bullying leveled against one of our members, Jacob Appelbaum, A.K.A. ioerror. We’re also aware that the Tor Project is conducting an internal investigation, and encourage anyone with relevant testimony to come forward. For some, it won’t be easy. There can be shaming or humiliation, or the fear of not being believed. It is also our responsibility to create an environment where people feel safe to come forward. We have always stood for freedom of speech and expression, which sometimes necessitates the right to anonymity. This is something that victims of abuse often require. We stand by their right to be anonymous. Others, like our friend Nick Farr, who decided to go public with his own difficulties, deserve our respect and support. Everyone will do this in their own way. We know that it may be scary, but we also encourage victims to contact their appropriate local authorities. We understand the complicated relationship we all have with law enforcement, but there is a time and place for government intervention. If the most extreme of these allegations are true, they should be addressed in a court of law, and dealt with appropriately. CULT OF THE DEAD COW is known for a lot of things, but treating people horribly is not one of them. If communities are to thrive and remain relevant we have to do some housecleaning from time to time. As we have become aware of the anonymous accusations of sexual assault, as well as the stories told by individuals we know and trust, we've decided to remove Jake from the herd effective immediately. EOM -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3047 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 20:30:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 00:30:31 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> Users Get Routed: Traffic Correlation on Tor by Realistic Adversaries http://www.ohmygodel.com/publications/usersrouted-ccs13.pdf Our results show that Tor users are FAR MORE SUSCEPTIBLE to compromise than indicated by prior work. QUITE SIMPLE AND EFFICIENT TECHNIQUES CAN CORRELATE TRAFFIC at these separate locations by taking advantage of identifying traf- fic patterns [29]. As a result, the user and his destination may be identified, completely subverting the protocol’s security goals. Given the SEVERITY OF THE TRAFFIC CORRELATION PROBLEM and its se- curity implications, we develop an analysis framework for evaluat- ing the security of various user behaviors on the live OUR ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT 80% OF ALL TYPES OF USERS MAY BE DE- ANONYMIZED BY A RELATIVELY MODERATE TOR-RELAY ADVERSARY WITHIN SIX MONTHS. OUR RESULTS ALSO SHOW THAT AGAINST A SINGLE AS ADVERSARY ROUGHLY 100% OF USERS IN SOME COMMON LOCATIONS ARE DEANONYMIZED WITHIN THREE MONTHS (95% IN THREE MONTHS FOR A SINGLE IXP) signed paul FUCKING syverson Now, all the RETARDS who parrot that 'tor stinks' perhaps should try to update their mental databases. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 21:32:26 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 00:32:26 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: On 6/7/16, Steve Kinney wrote: > And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against adversaries who > are /not/ top tier signals intelligence services. Not really. If said tt-si-services have a liking toward such minor adversaries, or to any particular bigcorp, political movement, etc, or to anything that's to their advantage and your weakness... that you are using tor (or for that matter, any GPA-weak network) against, or to evade... the tt-si-services will rat or parallel you out to them without hesitation. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 21:48:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 00:48:42 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: On 6/7/16, Steve Kinney wrote: >> And a bunch more lines to include attributes as to "verified to be >> a human node operator in person" pki web of trust into the > Making users prove they are human without disclosing any personally > identifying information is not an easy task. As far as I know, nobody Did not say "users". I said "operators", ie: relays. For which there are 1000 exits and 7000 relays. For which single humans run subgroups of them. For which users, operators, etc worldwide could have keysigining parties with them, inject that into the consensus, and give knobs to "users". Which is for some users a far better option and cost raiser than dirt cheap govt / adversary VPS of... 1150 "router (Unnamed|default|ididnteditheconfig)" with no contact info. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 22:48:03 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:48:03 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Has anyone HEARD from IOError since his last tweet? In-Reply-To: References: <51c9eb8d-bcfc-cce0-02b8-18c4c544a7de@cajuntechie.org> <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> <5755c126.010b370a.6c6f.ffffcd26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/7/16, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/6/16, juan wrote: >> The accussations are false, yet he leaves the oh so amazing tor >> project, AND his own bosses throw him under the bus? >> >> https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele >> >> Something doesn't add up. > > Perhaps the adversary grew weary / wary of its useful idiot. > Perhaps the useful idiot was too pure / against the system, > which itself just went through a change of its own guard. > Perhaps the useful idiot discovered a secret. > > The system is mind control. > Yet within the mindless babble of idiots lies a certain insight. > Listen to them. Someone who doesn't know how to direct relavant commentary to the list... noted this, and Ludlow's demise, in comparison... http://www.thenation.com/article/strange-case-barrett-brown/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 22:49:26 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:49:26 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] CULT OF THE DEAD COW Statement on Jacob Appelbaum / ioerror In-Reply-To: <57571f33.28568c0a.20ff6.5a42@mx.google.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57571f33.28568c0a.20ff6.5a42@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/7/16, juan wrote: > > cult of the clown cow vomited : >> [chunks] > Just in case somebody out there hasn't yet realized what kind > of 'collective' fraud the 'hacker' 'community' is. > > The 'hacker' 'community' is actually a bunch of posseurs and > intellectual frauds, slightly more knowledgable than script > kiddies and fully aligned with the US establishment. > > >> We understand the >> complicated relationship we all have with law enforcement, > > as in, "we are a bunch of sell outs" Sellouts, rats, and snakeoil... LoL... now that's closer ontopic cpunk than all this ioerror interpersonal bs... With Tangent, Ratte, L0pht as grand IPO brokers and VC money. DEFCON's coming up, better buy your tickets. And wear your shades. > If the most extreme >> of these allegations are true, they should be addressed in a court of >> law, and dealt with appropriately. Word. From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 07:29:27 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:29:27 -0700 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: <57582BC7.5030506@riseup.net> On 06/08/2016 02:08 AM, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote: > Does anyone maintain a moderated mirror of this list? If so, feel free > to message me off list. I'd also be happy to help maintain it when I > have time. > Kind of defeats the purpose of being a 'punk' now doesn't it? Maybe you were looking for a [dev] listserv? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 07:37:33 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 07:37:33 -0700 Subject: [tor-talk] Has anyone HEARD from IOError since his last tweet? In-Reply-To: References: <51c9eb8d-bcfc-cce0-02b8-18c4c544a7de@cajuntechie.org> <20160606114036.GB1963@localhost> <5755c126.010b370a.6c6f.ffffcd26@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57582DAD.1020504@riseup.net> On 06/07/2016 10:48 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/7/16, grarpamp wrote: >> On 6/6/16, juan wrote: >>> The accussations are false, yet he leaves the oh so amazing tor >>> project, AND his own bosses throw him under the bus? >>> >>> https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele >>> >>> Something doesn't add up. >> Perhaps the adversary grew weary / wary of its useful idiot. >> Perhaps the useful idiot was too pure / against the system, >> which itself just went through a change of its own guard. >> Perhaps the useful idiot discovered a secret. >> >> The system is mind control. >> Yet within the mindless babble of idiots lies a certain insight. >> Listen to them. > Someone who doesn't know how to direct relavant commentary > to the list... noted this, and Ludlow's demise, in comparison... > http://www.thenation.com/article/strange-case-barrett-brown/ > Barrett was too smacked out on downers for slander to affect him (aamof I do believe he enjoyed it) so they had to 'take him out' by other means (federal prison) If anyone wants a zipfile of ProjectPM as it appeared at the time of his arrest (before the change to cloudflare honeypot hosting) https://mega.nz/#!qIsyWJDL!e0DZDDyAgO79AQzxN3B0EwPRPXdpbGF35QzHwg4VlcI (19mb) Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 08:40:56 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:40:56 -0700 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions In-Reply-To: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> References: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57583C88.4000907@riseup.net> Personally I believe in obfuscation... The less the spooks know the better including knowing of your evasion by taunting them (/depends on what your trying to accomplish I guess/). For browsers like firefox there's IPFuck and a user-agent string changer that allows one to spoof another browser or create a "/Could be mutt but fucked if I'm telling you/" string. Must be some tool like that for mail user-agents. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/blend-in/ Also see: https://sourceforge.net/projects/emspoofer/ Rr On 06/08/2016 04:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I know, I know, this is wildly off topic for this list, but I dare to ask: > > Dear Dolly, I note that many punky punks round these parts use their MUA > du journk, yet happily advertise (of course falsely) their MUA User-Agent > name and version (due to the default header config which does as much). > > Of course everyone round these parts is perfectly aware of such matters > and has long ago manually modified such string to discretely lead any > would be infiltrator astray. Such significant information so many people > give away, "presently company excluded" of course... :) > > So, can anyone tell me of known spam filters or "outright rejection" > filters in any known mail server configurations/ setups, which would > reject an email header such as: > > User-Agent: Could be mutt but fucked if I'm telling you. > > Is it better to simply not include such a header? > > Or is it better to do the sly "make it look genuine but it's not" number? > > Better is a purely objective assessment of course with no rune for > alternative threat models or other subjective quasi quagmires... > > Confused, > Z > > P.S. Thank you my gracious and all knowing lords of the crypto best > practices paddfock. May we romp in freedom with daisies to save the world, > as I've heard love and light is all powerful and will save us all. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2519 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 08:57:35 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:57:35 -0700 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5758406F.9080503@riseup.net> On 06/08/2016 03:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > UR RESULTS ALSO SHOW THAT AGAINST A SINGLE AS ADVERSARY > > ROUGHLY 100% OF USERS IN SOME COMMON LOCATIONS ARE DEANONYMIZED > > WITHIN THREE MONTHS (95% IN THREE MONTHS FOR A SINGLE IXP) What? You exshpect to live forever? Three months is a lifetime. Use it wisely. Ps. there's a high probability of metadata being matched to users using simple search techniques. A Stanford graduate student has shown just how easily names can be matched with phone records, contradicting some of the legal justification offered by federal authorities for the National Security Agency’s bulk collection of phone data. President Barack Obama said in June that the surveillance captured only which telephone numbers were connected to others. “There are no names … in that database,” Obama said. Just last week, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said cell phone customers had no reasonable expectation to privacy because the data collected by the NSA because it did not contain their names. But researcher Jonathan Mayer and co-author Patrick Mutchler reported that they’d gathered thousands of phone numbers from volunteers and checked various public online directories to link some of the 5,000 numbers chosen at random from their database to individuals. With “marginal effort,” they matched more than 27 percent of the numbers using just Yelp, Google Places and Facebook. They then randomly sampled 100 numbers from the database and ran Google searches for each. “In under an hour, we were able to associate an individual or a business with 60 of the 100 numbers,” Mayer wrote. “When we added in our three initial sources, we were up to 73. "Between Intelius, Google search and our three initial sources, we associated a name with 91 of the 100 numbers,” http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/71327622408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dwhite at olp.net Wed Jun 8 08:48:06 2016 From: dwhite at olp.net (Dan White) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:48:06 -0500 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions In-Reply-To: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> References: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160608154805.GB4172@dan.olp.net> On 06/08/16 21:02 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >So, can anyone tell me of known spam filters or "outright rejection" >filters in any known mail server configurations/ setups, which would >reject an email header such as: > > User-Agent: Could be mutt but fucked if I'm telling you. Choose some phrase that does not include both mutt and fucked and you're probably fine, with regards to the commercial email space. Otherwise avoid non-ascii. User-agent strings have importance in direct client to server protocols, like http and imap. -- Dan White From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 10:56:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:56:42 -0700 Subject: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> On 06/08/2016 10:06 AM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:31:58 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity >> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:49:04 -0300 >> From: juan >> To: rayzer at riseup.net >> >> >>> come on rayzer, be 'transparent' like your buddies from the >>> pentagon and publish your gov't sourced income >> >> Juan... I gave you MORE than enough metainfo about me to figure out >> who or what I am. > Who you pretend to be, or even actual details about your > personal life are wholly irrelevant. What matters here is, for > instance, your laughable defense of the pentagon's 'anonimity' > network. > I'm not defending "the pentagon's 'anonimity' network." I'm saying, in so many words, that even the most compromised network still has uses if you know that the network is compromised. And in the case of something like tor if everyone used it that would increase the efforts needed to stalk the network. Even if every node was compromised, sifting through X packets is more expensive in any number of measures than sifting through x to the 6th power packets. My take is dissuading people from using it because it's compromised destroys what little effectiveness it might have, and as the gubmint would like, renders it useless. By that logic, you're the fed Juan. Rr > >> You've got my approximate age (teen in the 60s) >> >> The city I was in in the late 60s >> >> The damning fact that the NYPD stalked me and went after my dad's >> security clearance! >> >> That alone ought to be enough to get my jacket out of cold storage. >> >> >> >> On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: >>> Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. >> You pegged me Juan... I'm a Groucho Marxist, and a John Lennonist > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 10:59:06 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:59:06 -0700 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57585490.f4288c0a.430f8.3b5b@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> <5758406F.9080503@riseup.net> <57585490.f4288c0a.430f8.3b5b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57585CEA.9030702@riseup.net> On 06/08/2016 10:23 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:57:35 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 06/08/2016 03:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> UR RESULTS ALSO SHOW THAT AGAINST A SINGLE AS ADVERSARY >>>> ROUGHLY 100% OF USERS IN SOME COMMON LOCATIONS ARE DEANONYMIZED >>>> WITHIN THREE MONTHS (95% IN THREE MONTHS FOR A SINGLE IXP) >> What? You exshpect to live forever? >> Three months is a lifetime. Use it wisely. > > Exacty the kind of thing a government agent would say. > > Exactly the kind of thing a pragmatist would say. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 11:12:23 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:12:23 -0700 Subject: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57586007.1070106@riseup.net> Misstated... On 06/08/2016 10:56 AM, Rayzer wrote: > sifting through X > packets is more expensive in any number of measures than sifting through > x to the 6th power packets. Should read sifting through x to the 6th power packets is more expensive in any number of measures than sifting through x packets -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 7 18:45:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:45:25 +1000 Subject: the nature of the internet In-Reply-To: <57574d4c.b1568c0a.a518b.717e@mx.google.com> References: <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c434.852e8d0a.8bcca.008c@mx.google.com> <1493442019.22760.1465329948790.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57572f05.a32bed0a.b3b6f.ffff9ed7@mx.google.com> <926796236.95040.1465337645620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57574d4c.b1568c0a.a518b.717e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160608014525.GA31007@x220-a02> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 07:40:21PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 22:14:05 +0000 (UTC) > jim bell wrote: > > From: juan > >     You are of course free to be as 'optimistic' as you want but I > >     feel curious about the rational grounds for your optimism. > > > > > > Need I say it yet again?      https://cryptome.org/ap.htm > > The world has had 21 years to figure out a say to stop it.  If as > > much effort were put into implementing it as was put into Bitcoin, > > we'd all be free today.              > > > Bitcoin should provide 'financial freedom' but so far it > hasn't. > > The bigger and yet completely unsolved problem is how to make > online communications untraceable. It would seem wise to solve > that problem before starting any 'prediction' market. +1 An inexpensive "secure" (which may mean limited in funcationality) end user hardware router with a minimum 3 outgoing and one incoming connection is required; to create a non centralised mesh network of some sort. Then, the predominant usage model of the internet needs to be shifted to "people using this non centralized end user controlled mesh network". Then some protocols layered on top of this. Again: If you don't own it, you don't control it, if your don't control it, it --will-- be used against you. It's a minimum 20 year plan, but it is the only option before us. From nathan at squimp.com Wed Jun 8 02:08:35 2016 From: nathan at squimp.com (Nathan Andrew Fain) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 12:08:35 +0300 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Does anyone maintain a moderated mirror of this list? If so, feel free to message me off list. I'd also be happy to help maintain it when I have time. From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 02:21:32 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:21:32 +0300 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: Black - White Death - Life Moderated - Punk How can anyone connect the word "moderated = theoretically censored here or there" with the whole idea/l of CypherPunk? . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 217 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drwho at virtadpt.net Wed Jun 8 12:25:37 2016 From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 12:25:37 -0700 Subject: [private] Re: [tor-talk] http://jacobappelbaum.net/ In-Reply-To: <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> References: <1041661465068162@web3m.yandex.ru> <5755AC16.70800@pilobilus.net> <1523844871.6095855.1465237397040.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5755c558.442a8d0a.eba1.032a@mx.google.com> <5756148D.3000004@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160608122537.f598e52ce40d981f17f69fb8@virtadpt.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:25:49 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > several other hostile actors. I surface this concept every year or > so, but so far nobody seems interested in discussing it. Maybe it's > just too discouraging to think about. No matter who created it or If the argument that we're all screwed anyway is made in a sufficiently detailed way, and the technique described can be reasonably implemented by a sufficiently motivated actor (a single person at the very least)... why bother responding? If things are as bad as you say, what's the point? - -- The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1 WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ "The building was on fire, and it wasn't my fault." --Harry Dresden -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXWHExAAoJED1np1pUQ8RkQPsP/3YAANWB0utFAWtifIkrkw7h gU9jiI/bJeic1OwZWTkHfg9cMfuBlW3GGNbPKs4ab4I4EomYC/d9i+0TAqb9jiFD zFv03CSg0j0qOgULRicmDWFcBMmPZWeALF3K/MiOh1KeUW3RxhF0WCkXYGjjgehD Vz4h4eKItI9QIMz9WEjnf9oXPzW/i/5O269mTKzNN0yBgE5HW5jjgsubngeitGo+ ZNoOd92XmVgElOx4lYzbGsHMawMePn4G7qYpKnvuuQmwwkEtK/RfYInzJa/5NM7a hhmN35gKP626KLULEBM+ft/LiWbxet0c3qhvY4gMelTpIw4YzMDWDtfiVUeT2Hhg G8alKefCC33OmJM2yo9zu2bAONElmzVQFMq7JPPNfYpLB6dGO6EwfMNTxuOp9Z1c HEyifypCJiMEld1+yoVund/EZufzv0F9Ic6y6jTtlcWqtL5DDdL/sCleTf8+sIbQ suFShqsmSFdebBI3s4/gffsK3NgpE8L8HtveUYNq5fr6InwKaAoFeHQOaXIZWIFJ DqtaT+FmwNhsD8OvMCVdt2KXGFVN9seVS5LfPdVK/8SFnU4uVN3CNs3McmJF+PR1 IcWFIFKW55Dd5Orz4+gurzFYQwfBYZeSF5vrFymYFVHluWhObbBPxu8K/vbe49Oa s+UkcMRwjVjgn32DtwP/ =jK2Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 10:06:03 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:06:03 -0300 Subject: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:31:58 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:49:04 -0300 > From: juan > To: rayzer at riseup.net > > > > come on rayzer, be 'transparent' like your buddies from the > > pentagon and publish your gov't sourced income > > > Juan... I gave you MORE than enough metainfo about me to figure out > who or what I am. Who you pretend to be, or even actual details about your personal life are wholly irrelevant. What matters here is, for instance, your laughable defense of the pentagon's 'anonimity' network. > > You've got my approximate age (teen in the 60s) > > The city I was in in the late 60s > > The damning fact that the NYPD stalked me and went after my dad's > security clearance! > > That alone ought to be enough to get my jacket out of cold storage. > > > > On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: > > Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. > > You pegged me Juan... I'm a Groucho Marxist, and a John Lennonist > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 10:23:39 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 14:23:39 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <5758406F.9080503@riseup.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> <5758406F.9080503@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57585490.f4288c0a.430f8.3b5b@mx.google.com> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 08:57:35 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/08/2016 03:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > UR RESULTS ALSO SHOW THAT AGAINST A SINGLE AS ADVERSARY > > > ROUGHLY 100% OF USERS IN SOME COMMON LOCATIONS ARE DEANONYMIZED > > > WITHIN THREE MONTHS (95% IN THREE MONTHS FOR A SINGLE IXP) > > What? You exshpect to live forever? > Three months is a lifetime. Use it wisely. Exacty the kind of thing a government agent would say. From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jun 8 12:24:25 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:24:25 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <575870E9.4070407@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/08/2016 12:48 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/7/16, Steve Kinney wrote: >>> And a bunch more lines to include attributes as to "verified to >>> be a human node operator in person" pki web of trust into the > >> Making users prove they are human without disclosing any >> personally identifying information is not an easy task. As far >> as I know, nobody > > Did not say "users". I said "operators", ie: relays. For which > there are 1000 exits and 7000 relays. For which single humans run > subgroups of them. For which users, operators, etc worldwide could > have keysigining parties with them, inject that into the consensus, > and give knobs to "users". Which is for some users a far better > option and cost raiser than dirt cheap govt / adversary VPS of... > > 1150 "router (Unnamed|default|ididnteditheconfig)" with no contact > info. Something like that did cross my mind, and I'm glad you expanded on the theme. Here we see the difference between a "protocol" as defined in software, and a "protocol" for face to face human interaction. In theory, the approach outlined above would make a network like TOR orders of magnitude more effective. But a problem remains: Software based solutions are easy to deploy, "just do it." End users who know something happened (likely a small minority, unless the changes degrade service) can keep using, drop out, or fork the project. Meatspace based solutions are hard: They require the informed participation of /numerous/ geographically dispersed participants. Compare the case of the PGP web of trust: It only works if a critical mass of well informed, proactive end users make it work. Getting enough TOR users to do real work in the real world to register themselves as TOR users sounds like a non-starter to me. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWHDpAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqNFMIAMuOzSukl9tqMvM0EvFjPRfy M+DFaujsWbwme+zc6qlHxqAVmD7VmXlvyJ9KqKBHitRg1mV8fmsTCy9pFqd0lzsP zR0DRYN2nCk0dkR1WA3kkwu2VoaQqXP4PfQabxJbN9dMVpNBfSrzfxKI0XClJ4Hf bnHgehnqKjPRXbAiznsLWgJ3SKGqW8vBc9GEA2fBzGY6NmyVZaTXpp4AM28aT6Eg gCXSOtKFXWJU9xm4x4Rd32ujsKnqJdO9+bscbbr5tLDR+g2gvbNOSqjboIyjJ6zw qWlp+BinZe6EIiW9BGRrt+m6AGFCEgBL1PkYlD9ovVQ8Varb8Tdg+pAzvKgj7mw= =LbIM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jun 8 13:11:19 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:11:19 -0400 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57587BE7.8070500@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/07/2016 06:59 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:51:25 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: > > On 06/07/2016 04:09 PM, juan wrote: > >>>>> And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against >>>>> adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence >>>>> services. >>>> >>>> Which is not the point, motherfucker. > > So in other words, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it > > >> What am I wrong about, exactly? You can re-read my previous >> messages and notice all the stuff I said and you ignored. > >> Especially my first message explaining why tor is a scam. The big error I see is your apparent belief that TOR should be able to do impossible things, and interpreting its failure to do so as evidence of malicious intent by its sponsors and developers. Overly enthusiastic fans of tools like TOR promise "airtight security," because they believe that airtight security is possible. Overly enthusiastic critics of TOR and similar tools demand the same impossible performance, and consider anything less to be a betrayal of public trust. One of the most effective ways to defeat a grass roots political adversary is to build and unleash opposing camps of True Believers to fight for and against a simplistic, misrepresented version of whatever the "unwelcome" advocates are trying to accomplish. What makes this approach so effective is that people will do it ALL BY THEMSELVES in many instances; guiding them to do it harder, faster and better is no challenge at all if one has a budget for that. I don't imagine that every outspoken critic of my little ideas is a paid enemy agent; I prefer a more evidence based brand of paranoia. To me, the tempest in TOR's teacup looks like a perfectly natural phenomenon, driven by false hope vs. harsh reality problems. Everyone has a right to petition the Universe for redress of grievances against the laws of physics; this can even be productive, as and when it leads to an improved understanding of those laws. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWHvnAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfIYH/ROrA+wSAQyDzWB8QHoCQ0aB 8g03ILCC54SG5tWk/9IyvOKXGo89Jqyh+31ur+Dhkme3reBqlmD6FUengm0UCDAD tGJ7qMNP2EAqzRbXNWckrJSiFgDPH1BjDcwSNwu9/r9+foq3VVJ2SRIg0dO0U5V5 w6lRmwbhDAWqZhHkLzXO8IkOXG2ge/7rFtvcvjuex0Pvfm1d0ZhCvzh46QuUOThy R/psKyW/TGNPRlagdbtQjokdq+XDcPc0S0kWexIQEqfIwRoLHRuUIlLZ98slNNW3 1NlLrN1yFpANA/GpZfp1+x0/GcrTXziyztcV2iu2nYMM/w5OdqS8qmCaT9XR8Cw= =WvFe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From yui at cock.li Wed Jun 8 06:51:35 2016 From: yui at cock.li (Yui Hirasawa) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 16:51:35 +0300 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: <20160608135135.GB14522@Edelfelt> > How can anyone connect the word "moderated = theoretically censored here or > there" with the whole idea/l of CypherPunk? Haven't you heard? These days censoring encourages and strenghtens free speech! From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 14:03:06 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:03:06 -0300 Subject: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575887fc.11de8c0a.aff6.5700@mx.google.com> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:56:42 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/08/2016 10:06 AM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:31:58 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > >> Subject: Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity > >> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:49:04 -0300 > >> From: juan > >> To: rayzer at riseup.net > >> > >> > >>> come on rayzer, be 'transparent' like your buddies from > >>> the pentagon and publish your gov't sourced income > >> > >> Juan... I gave you MORE than enough metainfo about me to figure out > >> who or what I am. > > Who you pretend to be, or even actual details about your > > personal life are wholly irrelevant. What matters here is, > > for instance, your laughable defense of the pentagon's 'anonimity' > > network. > > > > I'm not defending "the pentagon's 'anonimity' network." I'm saying, in > so many words, that even the most compromised network still has uses You keep defending tor and making completely retarded excuses for it while denying that you are defending it. I quoted an 'expert witness' who also happens to be tor's capo mafioso clearly saying that tor is fucked and yet you keep vomiting nonsense. Seriously, what the fuck is wrng with you. What's your evidence and expertise that allows you to 'refute' syverson and co.? > And in the case of > something like tor if everyone used it that would increase the > efforts needed to stalk the network. Even if every node win any > number of measures than sifting through x to the 6th power packets. DUDE! What the fuck are you talkng about. You are a charlatan. > > My take is dissuading people from using it because it's compromised > destroys what little effectiveness it might have, Are you crazy, utterly stupid, or what. Wait no, you are a government agent promoting a system that is clearly flawed, to the point that the same scumbags who created admit it. And yet you, > and as the gubmint > would like, renders it useless. > > By that logic, you're the fed Juan. Yes, by the logic of a fucktard like you, who promotes a honeypot, I am the fed. And by 'ordinary' and sound logic, you, a promoter of a honeypot, are the fed. > > Rr > > > > >> You've got my approximate age (teen in the 60s) > >> > >> The city I was in in the late 60s > >> > >> The damning fact that the NYPD stalked me and went after my dad's > >> security clearance! > >> > >> That alone ought to be enough to get my jacket out of cold storage. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: > >>> Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. > >> You pegged me Juan... I'm a Groucho Marxist, and a John Lennonist > > > > > > > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 14:28:46 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 18:28:46 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57587BE7.8070500@pilobilus.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> <57587BE7.8070500@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57588e01.cc29c80a.c08ee.5b53@mx.google.com> Steve Kinney 'asserted' : "TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used against the National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks." Steve Kinney is a charlatan who hasn't done basic research about tor and simply parrots bullshit he got from the 'main stream media' When informed about basic research showing tor's flaws Steve Kinney blantantly ignores it, because he is an intellectual fraud. And then he writes baseless bullshit like the stuff below. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 06/07/2016 06:59 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:51:25 -0400 Steve Kinney > > wrote: > > > > On 06/07/2016 04:09 PM, juan wrote: > > > >>>>> And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against > >>>>> adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence > >>>>> services. > >>>> > >>>> Which is not the point, motherfucker. > > > > So in other words, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it > > > > > >> What am I wrong about, exactly? You can re-read my previous > >> messages and notice all the stuff I said and you ignored. > > > >> Especially my first message explaining why tor is a scam. > > The big error I see is your apparent belief that TOR should be able to > do impossible things, and interpreting its failure to do so as > evidence of malicious intent by its sponsors and developers. > > Overly enthusiastic fans of tools like TOR promise "airtight > security," because they believe that airtight security is possible. > Overly enthusiastic critics of TOR and similar tools demand the same > impossible performance, and consider anything less to be a betrayal of > public trust. > > One of the most effective ways to defeat a grass roots political > adversary is to build and unleash opposing camps of True Believers to > fight for and against a simplistic, misrepresented version of whatever > the "unwelcome" advocates are trying to accomplish. What makes this > approach so effective is that people will do it ALL BY THEMSELVES in > many instances; guiding them to do it harder, faster and better is no > challenge at all if one has a budget for that. > > I don't imagine that every outspoken critic of my little ideas is a > paid enemy agent; I prefer a more evidence based brand of paranoia. > To me, the tempest in TOR's teacup looks like a perfectly natural > phenomenon, driven by false hope vs. harsh reality problems. Everyone > has a right to petition the Universe for redress of grievances against > the laws of physics; this can even be productive, as and when it leads > to an improved understanding of those laws. > > :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWHvnAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfIYH/ROrA+wSAQyDzWB8QHoCQ0aB > 8g03ILCC54SG5tWk/9IyvOKXGo89Jqyh+31ur+Dhkme3reBqlmD6FUengm0UCDAD > tGJ7qMNP2EAqzRbXNWckrJSiFgDPH1BjDcwSNwu9/r9+foq3VVJ2SRIg0dO0U5V5 > w6lRmwbhDAWqZhHkLzXO8IkOXG2ge/7rFtvcvjuex0Pvfm1d0ZhCvzh46QuUOThy > R/psKyW/TGNPRlagdbtQjokdq+XDcPc0S0kWexIQEqfIwRoLHRuUIlLZ98slNNW3 > 1NlLrN1yFpANA/GpZfp1+x0/GcrTXziyztcV2iu2nYMM/w5OdqS8qmCaT9XR8Cw= > =WvFe > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 15:51:50 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 19:51:50 -0300 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <2fc15e81-9eeb-51bd-b003-b4af967f52f0@gmail.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> <57587BE7.8070500@pilobilus.net> <57588e01.cc29c80a.c08ee.5b53@mx.google.com> <2fc15e81-9eeb-51bd-b003-b4af967f52f0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5758a178.442a8d0a.16bf0.64b4@mx.google.com> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:40:34 +0800 Charles wrote: > This list degenerated into a shitshow for paranoid poseurs like Juan. > Un-subbing. Good riddance. And don't let the door hit you on the ass. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 8 03:07:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:07:57 +1000 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: <20160608100757.GA3649@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:21:32PM +0300, Александр wrote: > Black - White > Death - Life > Moderated - Punk > How can anyone connect the word "moderated = theoretically censored here or there" with the whole idea/l of CypherPunk? Oh come on! Haven't you heard the news? This is the new, improved, --conservative-- punks we're talking about! 'Punk' punks? How passé!! Plebes! :D From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 8 20:19:28 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:19:28 -0700 Subject: [offlist trollbait] Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity In-Reply-To: <575887fc.11de8c0a.aff6.5700@mx.google.com> References: <57571716.c9b38c0a.61e11.0945@mx.google.com> <5757839E.9070109@riseup.net> <5758506f.55948c0a.e382c.394c@mx.google.com> <57585C5A.4090901@riseup.net> <575887fc.11de8c0a.aff6.5700@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5758E040.4090802@riseup.net> It's been fun Juan, but we're talking past each other. One ... more... time. 1 > Tor fulfils a basic function of security by obscuring your location at A long enough for you to be at some other unknown location, B, by the time they figure out where location A was, and in conjunction with s/w like tails also leave no trace, or again, a trace that's not immediately discoverable on any computer so they have no physical evidence... The computer used, for forensics. 2 > There is NO WAY to minimize risk to zero (law of diminishing returns). There will ALWAYS be risk when you divulge state or other secrets. 3 > You are demanding defeat. That's all Juan. That's why YOU are 'the fed'. And it's really quite funny because in my activities against the state I'm the one people refer to as the defeatist or pessimist, but you... You're over the top. Rr On 06/08/2016 02:03 PM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:56:42 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 06/08/2016 10:06 AM, juan wrote: >>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 19:31:58 -0700 >>> Rayzer wrote: >>> >>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>> Subject: Re: cryptographically-provable anonymity >>>> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 15:49:04 -0300 >>>> From: juan >>>> To: rayzer at riseup.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> come on rayzer, be 'transparent' like your buddies from >>>>> the pentagon and publish your gov't sourced income >>>> Juan... I gave you MORE than enough metainfo about me to figure out >>>> who or what I am. >>> Who you pretend to be, or even actual details about your >>> personal life are wholly irrelevant. What matters here is, >>> for instance, your laughable defense of the pentagon's 'anonimity' >>> network. >>> >> I'm not defending "the pentagon's 'anonimity' network." I'm saying, in >> so many words, that even the most compromised network still has uses > > You keep defending tor and making completely retarded excuses > for it while denying that you are defending it. > > I quoted an 'expert witness' who also happens to be tor's capo > mafioso clearly saying that tor is fucked and yet you keep > vomiting nonsense. > > Seriously, what the fuck is wrng with you. What's your evidence > and expertise that allows you to 'refute' syverson and co.? > > > >> And in the case of >> something like tor if everyone used it that would increase the >> efforts needed to stalk the network. Even if every node win any >> number of measures than sifting through x to the 6th power packets. > DUDE! What the fuck are you talkng about. You are a charlatan. > >> My take is dissuading people from using it because it's compromised >> destroys what little effectiveness it might have, > > Are you crazy, utterly stupid, or what. Wait no, you are a > government agent promoting a system that is clearly flawed, to > the point that the same scumbags who created admit it. > > And yet you, > > >> and as the gubmint >> would like, renders it useless. >> >> By that logic, you're the fed Juan. > Yes, by the logic of a fucktard like you, who promotes a > honeypot, I am the fed. > > And by 'ordinary' and sound logic, you, a promoter of a > honeypot, are the fed. > > > >> Rr >> >>>> You've got my approximate age (teen in the 60s) >>>> >>>> The city I was in in the late 60s >>>> >>>> The damning fact that the NYPD stalked me and went after my dad's >>>> security clearance! >>>> >>>> That alone ought to be enough to get my jacket out of cold storage. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 06/07/2016 11:46 AM, juan wrote: >>>>> Sure. Because a marxist clown like you says so. >>>> You pegged me Juan... I'm a Groucho Marxist, and a John Lennonist >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hanafoshana at hananet.net Wed Jun 8 04:20:38 2016 From: hanafoshana at hananet.net (ϳ) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:20:38 +0900 Subject: ()ϳ 2 ᰡ ȸ Message-ID: <200206081127.GAA21544@einstein.ssz.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6368 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 8 03:38:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 20:38:25 +1000 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 12:30:31AM -0300, juan wrote: > Users Get Routed: > Traffic Correlation on Tor by Realistic Adversaries > > http://www.ohmygodel.com/publications/usersrouted-ccs13.pdf > > > Our results show that Tor users are FAR MORE SUSCEPTIBLE to compromise > than indicated by prior work. > > > QUITE SIMPLE AND EFFICIENT TECHNIQUES CAN CORRELATE TRAFFIC > at these separate locations by taking advantage of identifying traf- > fic patterns [29]. As a result, the user and his destination may be > identified, completely subverting the protocol’s security goals. > > > Given the SEVERITY OF THE TRAFFIC CORRELATION PROBLEM and its se- > curity implications, we develop an analysis framework for evaluat- > ing the security of various user behaviors on the live > > > OUR ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT 80% OF ALL TYPES OF USERS MAY BE DE- > ANONYMIZED BY A RELATIVELY MODERATE TOR-RELAY ADVERSARY WITHIN SIX > MONTHS. > > > OUR RESULTS ALSO SHOW THAT AGAINST A SINGLE AS ADVERSARY > ROUGHLY 100% OF USERS IN SOME COMMON LOCATIONS ARE DEANONYMIZED > WITHIN THREE MONTHS (95% IN THREE MONTHS FOR A SINGLE IXP) > > > signed paul FUCKING syverson > > > Now, all the RETARDS who parrot that 'tor stinks' perhaps should try to > update their mental databases. This needs to be +1'ed, noted well, remembered, reminded and generally proclaimed loudly. The use cases of "benefit" are looking slim indeed, and in fact "you have at most one month and even then a ~30% chance of being specifically identified. The metaphorical hit and run is the remaining use case, assuming you don't make any mistake at all whilst hitting the tor network and running for your hope to be not detected arse. Fill traffic overlay net, and hardware based "new mesh network" seem to be the only sane approaches for sane future work named thus far... Juan, you've been so fucking right it's, it's, it's ... I ... From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 8 04:02:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:02:50 +1000 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions Message-ID: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> I know, I know, this is wildly off topic for this list, but I dare to ask: Dear Dolly, I note that many punky punks round these parts use their MUA du journk, yet happily advertise (of course falsely) their MUA User-Agent name and version (due to the default header config which does as much). Of course everyone round these parts is perfectly aware of such matters and has long ago manually modified such string to discretely lead any would be infiltrator astray. Such significant information so many people give away, "presently company excluded" of course... :) So, can anyone tell me of known spam filters or "outright rejection" filters in any known mail server configurations/ setups, which would reject an email header such as: User-Agent: Could be mutt but fucked if I'm telling you. Is it better to simply not include such a header? Or is it better to do the sly "make it look genuine but it's not" number? Better is a purely objective assessment of course with no rune for alternative threat models or other subjective quasi quagmires... Confused, Z P.S. Thank you my gracious and all knowing lords of the crypto best practices paddfock. May we romp in freedom with daisies to save the world, as I've heard love and light is all powerful and will save us all. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 20:57:46 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 23:57:46 -0400 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions In-Reply-To: <20160608154805.GB4172@dan.olp.net> References: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> <20160608154805.GB4172@dan.olp.net> Message-ID: On 6/8/16, Dan White wrote: > User-agent strings have importance in [...] imap Link to RFC please. Just pick the most popular thing out there and clone it. Else read the TBB ua string rehashes on tor-talk. Or use no string at all. https://user-agents.me/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 21:52:35 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:52:35 -0400 Subject: Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets Message-ID: First come the clearnet indexes... # kickass torrents http://lsuzvpko6w6hzpnn.onion/ # the pirate bay http://uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk.onion/ # rutor http://rutorc6mqdinc4cz.onion/ # btdigg http://btdigg63cdjmmmqj.onion/ # torrents md http://tmdwwwebwyuuqepd.onion/ # demonoid http://demonhkzoijsvvui.onion/ # Putting the "Tor" back in Torrent https://gist.github.com/obvio171/addb26214a8c159f84a8 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8022341 # For DHT, PEX, UDP https://www.onioncat.org/ Just a teaser of what's already out there... From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 23:21:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 02:21:42 -0400 Subject: The Internet As Govt Self Suicide Device Message-ID: On 6/7/16, jim bell wrote: > > From: juan > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) > jim bell wrote: >> >Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which >> >could be made to the TOR protocol Perhaps. Though I think tor's basic design and inertia may be unsuited to GPA resistant mods, such that new project[s] would be better ground for trialing that. Doesn't mean that current nets can't be drawn from. >> >TOR is a net positive, For quite some use cases, just not all use cases. > I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will eventually be > seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government. Gov's don't self suicide. However they may piss other folks off, who then rise to kill them. Replacing them with yet another govt. Of course twisting their own original tools for military comms superiority against them is always fun, and yes, seen as ironic. There are also too many places in the world where govs still have effective control over it... censorship events, etc... such that govt survival mechanism will be effective nationalization under "exigent state of emergency". It may take another 20 years before the race condition between govts and freedom of the net yields a real winner, or a real meltdown. > is on Ethereum and Augur, which will make the prediction market open. > Nobody will much care if I donate 0.001 BTC to see the end of > [fill in the > blank with the name of your] ...neighbors dog that shits on your lawn and barks all night. Call it practice for the big game. With license issued by Anonymous Dept of Parks and Rec. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 23:39:30 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 02:39:30 -0400 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: On 6/8/16, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote: > Does anyone maintain a moderated mirror of this list? If so, feel free > to message me off list. I'd also be happy to help maintain it when I > have time. I maintain such a list. However you would quit before starting out of disagreement with its policy. Metzdowd runs a moderated list with various heads, corp, gov, and apologist types. Some fair tech and math and news shows up there too. But it's mostly rehash of RNGs ;) Or you could simply run thunderbird, or unix tor mutt notmuch msmtp fetchmail maildrop mailpile whatever... and tune your own moderation however you like. Don't forget to filter me out. From charles.paul at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 15:40:34 2016 From: charles.paul at gmail.com (Charles) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 06:40:34 +0800 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57588e01.cc29c80a.c08ee.5b53@mx.google.com> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <57572a00.65688c0a.d00ef.61e8@mx.google.com> <57574FED.8060005@pilobilus.net> <575751c2.dd2cc80a.48e8.4fa1@mx.google.com> <57587BE7.8070500@pilobilus.net> <57588e01.cc29c80a.c08ee.5b53@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2fc15e81-9eeb-51bd-b003-b4af967f52f0@gmail.com> This list degenerated into a shitshow for paranoid poseurs like Juan. Un-subbing. On 6/9/2016 5:28 AM, juan wrote: > > > Steve Kinney 'asserted' : > > "TOR is a two edged sword that can also be used > against the National Interest, so the NSA thinks TOR stinks." > > > Steve Kinney is a charlatan who hasn't done basic research about tor and > simply parrots bullshit he got from the 'main stream media' > > > When informed about basic research showing tor's flaws Steve Kinney > blantantly ignores it, because he is an intellectual fraud. > > And then he writes baseless bullshit like the stuff below. > > > > > > > On 06/07/2016 06:59 PM, juan wrote: >>>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 18:51:25 -0400 Steve Kinney >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 06/07/2016 04:09 PM, juan wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> And of course, TOR can be up to 100% effective against >>>>>>>> adversaries who are /not/ top tier signals intelligence >>>>>>>> services. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which is not the point, motherfucker. >>>> >>>> So in other words, I'm right, you're wrong, and you know it >>>> >>>> >>>>> What am I wrong about, exactly? You can re-read my previous >>>>> messages and notice all the stuff I said and you ignored. >>>> >>>>> Especially my first message explaining why tor is a scam. > > The big error I see is your apparent belief that TOR should be able to > do impossible things, and interpreting its failure to do so as > evidence of malicious intent by its sponsors and developers. > > Overly enthusiastic fans of tools like TOR promise "airtight > security," because they believe that airtight security is possible. > Overly enthusiastic critics of TOR and similar tools demand the same > impossible performance, and consider anything less to be a betrayal of > public trust. > > One of the most effective ways to defeat a grass roots political > adversary is to build and unleash opposing camps of True Believers to > fight for and against a simplistic, misrepresented version of whatever > the "unwelcome" advocates are trying to accomplish. What makes this > approach so effective is that people will do it ALL BY THEMSELVES in > many instances; guiding them to do it harder, faster and better is no > challenge at all if one has a budget for that. > > I don't imagine that every outspoken critic of my little ideas is a > paid enemy agent; I prefer a more evidence based brand of paranoia. > To me, the tempest in TOR's teacup looks like a perfectly natural > phenomenon, driven by false hope vs. harsh reality problems. Everyone > has a right to petition the Universe for redress of grievances against > the laws of physics; this can even be productive, as and when it leads > to an improved understanding of those laws. > > :o) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 21:27:31 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 07:27:31 +0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Freedom of the Press Foundation - Statement on Jacob Appelbaum In-Reply-To: <628381465423428@web22g.yandex.ru> References: <750371465422852@web18m.yandex.ru> <628381465423428@web22g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: > > https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/statement-jacob-appelbaum > In light of the allegations that have been made, Jacob Appelbaum is no > longer a member of our outside volunteer technical advisory board. We hope > that the serious accusations made against him, and his denial of them, are > resolved as fairly and as expeditiously as possible.... > yeah. and in the meantime, we will treat Appelbaum as if he IS ALREADY convicted.... as if he IS ALREADY a serial rapist -> and throw him from his position = reject him from our community, this way showing everybody our "neutrality/objectivity" (not talking about showing Appelbaum himself, a respectful member, some kind of "support", before proven otherwise!) Yeap, lets show one more time that a man can work all his life to build his reputation and to help the world in so many ways... and some f*ckers can ruin it in one week, by creating an amateur smear campaign with anonymous and saaad stories. Well done, puppets. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1249 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dwhite at olp.net Thu Jun 9 06:31:55 2016 From: dwhite at olp.net (Dan White) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 08:31:55 -0500 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions In-Reply-To: References: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> <20160608154805.GB4172@dan.olp.net> Message-ID: <20160609133154.GA4146@dan.olp.net> On 06/08/16 23:57 -0400, grarpamp wrote: >On 6/8/16, Dan White wrote: >> User-agent strings have importance in [...] imap > >Link to RFC please. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2971.txt -- Dan White From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 9 08:29:13 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 11:29:13 -0400 Subject: The Internet As Govt Self Suicide Device In-Reply-To: <20160609123544.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160609123544.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <57598B49.8060209@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/2016 08:35 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 02:21:42AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: >> It may take another 20 years before the race condition between >> govts and freedom of the net yields a real winner, or a real >> meltdown. >> > > I suspect in up to 20 years climate change will screw earth hard. > > Humans have seen revolutions, but did something change for the good > of the sheeple? > > "real winner" likely will be government, which people can't screw > or possibly "robin hood" dictatorship. This faith-based global development plan was created by think tanks and economic planners telling The Boss only and exactly what he wants to hear: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/29/six-maps-that-wil l-make-you-rethink-the-world/ https://tinyurl.com/zl2h6l8 This evidence based assessment of best to median case outcomes for industrial civilization in the mid term future was created by a geophysicist who apparently doesn't give a fuck what the boss wants to hear: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2013/10/29/how-science-telling-us-all- revolt https://tinyurl.com/gwhvr9v In a world where the State's sole function is to convert money into power, and power back into money in an accelerating feedback cycle, the head on collision of these two models is already a done deal. Lemming herders FTW. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWYtJAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqO5oH/1wog5Bqaf+CQFsuvwe3BxN3 aQjLcKzdhMeBAXrQrYnTSelNNQLD5Q0R+z1to2xVX48Zc4IZmVTR1gDO+QzTzUgi zWuXCMVcq9Kh5ctjkeTrwUnS8bB912gekWnABkYsU2hea2kvgARU8GxJ+4LK7/Su Q0VmWzXq582x4ivRCUyv6Zf3mBDx4scYB4aXU469W7rImaEzLKABAkvNlgYyirA6 CId0/Jp8Qa8Anm6cJLKj+5+qbuofdWHpsroUmf9WaxQPkALX/C/1laeleeApKNvD f/U/tQm/4JkKDFupQjwAQPttZWUhYpjb05nxqTpN6vxjmeLEdW4AQ4aB5GUOtIc= =nPoR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 9 08:42:51 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 11:42:51 -0400 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: <57598E7B.4070806@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/08/2016 05:08 AM, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote: > Does anyone maintain a moderated mirror of this list? If so, feel > free to message me off list. I'd also be happy to help maintain it > when I have time. Once upon a time, dialup bandwidth and megabyte-scale storage devices justified forum censorship on practical grounds. These days, any forum with "punk" in its name where "anarchy" is considered on-topic can easily afford to allow freedom of speech. To build your very own moderated digest of cpunks at home in your spare time, get a MUA with spam filtering capabilities. Personally, I'm a "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" kind of guy. Lao Tzu say: When the worst student hears about the way He laughs out loud. If he did not laugh It would be unworthy of being the way. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWY57AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqGuQIAKXYV/k8iEFThQWI9C5wFVyW yT0eFB34ABwGeV9KNU0BP5FlWBo1b5VWSfZZlawAEH0+mStaIiaNqij+aurKGIaQ fJ6MqTjYbRM0LhhVvvSspZAwtWjRZ4U7uQ1h6kOm3CVINBo2HO6z7MHVFq7ioqYA lZ/dg+KxJhlXTOVNaCkeRvebUnGW4Dbag8WsVWJHOr5iNM3matQzn/zurm2gSyjD VQKDZVPRCQmirEnpuYtBXljZqRdU50Lg6O65IsvSZL2+oSBODBOvh6lXt/Rphuqy v8bapujLtzogEW95dZrOi5AWYopFgdnRkCuZaJnoAelz/DL7l3MTfMCFznU7aT0= =bX7g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 8 19:03:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:03:56 +1000 Subject: The cheap low risk node majority attack, pki, geoip, etc In-Reply-To: <57585CEA.9030702@riseup.net> References: <5757198E.90206@pilobilus.net> <57571cd3.c49f8c0a.9876c.2fb7@mx.google.com> <575727DD.3000205@pilobilus.net> <5757915a.32288c0a.251ba.ffff93e5@mx.google.com> <20160608103825.GA3949@x220-a02> <5758406F.9080503@riseup.net> <57585490.f4288c0a.430f8.3b5b@mx.google.com> <57585CEA.9030702@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160609020356.GA7239@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 08, 2016 at 10:59:06AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 06/08/2016 10:23 AM, juan wrote: > > Rayzer wrote: > >> What? You exshpect to live forever? > >> Three months is a lifetime. Use it wisely. > > > > Exacty the kind of thing a government agent would say. > > Exactly the kind of thing a pragmatist would say. Awww, heartwarming backslapping of one another, how cute. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 09:20:35 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:20:35 -0400 Subject: MUA 'new email' User-Agent email header field - suggestions and questions In-Reply-To: <20160609133154.GA4146@dan.olp.net> References: <20160608110250.GA4279@x220-a02> <20160608154805.GB4172@dan.olp.net> <20160609133154.GA4146@dan.olp.net> Message-ID: On 6/9/16, Dan White wrote: > https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2971.txt Its an optional extension, and a privacy violating one, with a long list of MUST NOTs, in deference to actual CAPABILITYs, thus ignored this pointless rfc from list of standard rfc's. I'll submit my own bugs and pass on stats. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 09:21:30 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:21:30 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: <91bc6be3-68b4-1c07-f75c-295a861457d8@gmail.com> References: <91bc6be3-68b4-1c07-f75c-295a861457d8@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/9/16, Aymeric Vitte wrote: > Missing something here or why do you post those old links without > mentioning newer projects? Some of your stuff depends on clearnet peers / services, I see no need for that in the new old world of anonymous overlay networks. Some of your stuff is commercial, for clearnet no less, spammed out in every message you send. I see no need for that either. As in the subject "entirely within". As in the body "just a teaser". From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 09:33:21 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 12:33:21 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: <1210682039.8347.1465453017115.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1210682039.8347.1465453017115.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/9/16, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > The problem is getting the software in the first place. > Popcorn Time #1 got bullied off the web, then sprouted > two forks, neither of which could keep a stable url. > So you better not have a single hitch in your web server. Otherwise that > will be the first thing to go, and you'll end > up wasting the rest of your development time playing > cat-and-mouse across dns, onion addys, etc. You missing greater part of the subject and context... Competent services and users can't be bullied off of anonymous overlay networks by anyone except perhaps GPA's that have nothing better to do. Clearnet is a joke compared to that general caveat. Which is why bittorrent is moving into the overlays... yes, they're tired of wasting their time with bullies and they have better things to do, including building and using stable, resistant, systems. That's just ops, is not giving up, but continuing to better advancing any of their philosophical ideas on piratepartiet, privacy, etc. From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 9 10:10:21 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 13:10:21 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: References: <1210682039.8347.1465453017115.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5759A2FD.1030004@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/2016 12:33 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/9/16, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: >> The problem is getting the software in the first place. Popcorn >> Time #1 got bullied off the web, then sprouted two forks, neither >> of which could keep a stable url. So you better not have a single >> hitch in your web server. Otherwise that will be the first thing >> to go, and you'll end up wasting the rest of your development >> time playing cat-and-mouse across dns, onion addys, etc. > > You missing greater part of the subject and context... Competent > services and users can't be bullied off of anonymous overlay > networks by anyone except perhaps GPA's that have nothing better to > do. Clearnet is a joke compared to that general caveat. Which is > why bittorrent is moving into the overlays... yes, they're tired of > wasting their time with bullies and they have better things to do, > including building and using stable, resistant, systems. That's > just ops, is not giving up, but continuing to better advancing any > of their philosophical ideas on piratepartiet, privacy, etc. Beauty part: With great user base comes great anonymity sets and routing node counts, hence less responsibility. Considering who we are asked to be responsible to, and what they do with that supposed authoritah, win. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXWaL9AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqGbQH/RB7/0Y55ugaBFMRQO7sqWCj WTcZKPTY5E8Lixb7zyhSZYGOxSbqIWpRfSCAIL5WFBipd9n0hAidY4VcXrt0PdkQ OTIusiLHXZx8P9+pdKDFIvX0z331OjXBbytDOKld5F9Z51PALvEM/g/Fsm/RkiFG H0O0fFGZ8iL6dyHNqfcn7yDIlsi0x8PDBbgIHArL0SqHmxeiP5zTXDZvpjwG6ilK VIvsZqe6M4a12mQaYADZ+JPdFVhPEplMiMTQW9WCDKVJK98Nfa1WagVRsvrJAxb6 F/fmsPHKEqL6MVRZIo8cGB9SKghxw8DVNPucHpwzrjbpksbcU70wUjkjqgLd4aA= =VWUX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From slipknot at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 13:47:08 2016 From: slipknot at riseup.net (Kivo Eba Ng) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 13:47:08 -0700 Subject: PGP survey invitation Message-ID: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> This came to my inbox. However, I wouldn’t touch this with a 10’ pole. > Dear PGP/GPG user, > > My name is Sven Braun and I am an MSc candidate at the Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford, United Kingdom. > > You receive this message, as your email address is publicly available on PGP public key servers. > > I am running a study on the usage of the email and data encryption software PGP/GPG to understand who is using PGP/GPG and encryption in society. > > I kindly invite you to participate in my survey: https://oii.qualtrics.com/SE?Q_DL=2cwWZBfUIKuwBYV_blrVb70dci9gK5T_MLRP_cOr20AuySQUMcdv&Q_CHL=email > > If you have any further questions about this research, please do not hesitate to contact me > (+44 1865 986891) or my advisor Dr Anne-Marie Oostveen > (+44 1865 287208). > > Many thanks in advance for your participation, > Sven > > -- > Sven Braun > MSc Candidate, Social Science of the Internet > Oxford Internet Institute > University of Oxford Mike -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tom at vondein.org Thu Jun 9 05:06:31 2016 From: tom at vondein.org (Tom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 14:06:31 +0200 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation In-Reply-To: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160609120631.GN12001@r4> On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 07:55:19PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > http://theduran.com/germany-preparing-war-russia/ This is nonsense. Their source is: http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2016/06/06/merkel-erklaert-russland-zum-rivalen-von-deutschland/ deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de is run by one stupid paranoid liar. More: https://www.psiram.com/ge/index.php/Deutsche_Wirtschafts_Nachrichten (german only) - Tom From slipknot at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 14:31:19 2016 From: slipknot at riseup.net (Kivo Eba Ng) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 14:31:19 -0700 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1D18A352-651E-4604-99F8-CA225E9898A8@riseup.net> The invitation to participate in the pgp survey looks like a spearfishing attack, but I agree that it’s probably legit after contacting the researchers at Oxford. However, GCHQ has its tentacles deeply ensconced in British academia. I feel the chill. m > On Jun 9, 2016, at 1:57 PM, moosehadley at gmail.com wrote: > > Took a look at it, > Looks like the person who made it has decent intentions. > It's just general questions about how you use PGP (when did you generate your first keypair? is your key personal, professional, or shared?) > > And every question can be skipped. > > If you feel like helping this guy get his P.H.D. just fill it out anonymously. > >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Kivo Eba Ng wrote: >> >> This came to my inbox. However, I wouldn’t touch this with a 10’ pole. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1770 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 11:25:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 15:25:04 -0300 Subject: The Internet As Govt Self Suicide Device In-Reply-To: <1384982054.368745.1465495556806.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1384982054.368745.1465495556806.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5759b46d.2432ed0a.5fd0d.ffffd1db@mx.google.com> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 18:05:56 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > >Gov's don't self suicide. > Usually, that's true.  The most obvious counter-examples today > include Venezuela and Greece.   Venezuela is controlled by a somewhat more totalitarian government than in the past. Not only the government of venezuela hasn't 'commited suicide', it's actually stronger than it used to be. I don't know how bad the current greek government is, but I do know it is alive and kicking and that the 'crisis' it underwent was caused by all the money they stole. So at best you can argue that when a government grows too fast there may be some kind of 'blowback' but that is all. > There is a difference, albeit small, > between a government taking an action to deliberately kill itself, as > opposed to a government taking an action will will eventually cause > that government to be killed.  To a first approximation, both amount > to "suicide". > > However they may piss other > >folks off, who then rise to kill them. > I include that kind of event as being "suicide".          Jim Bell > From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jun 9 05:35:44 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 15:35:44 +0300 Subject: The Internet As Govt Self Suicide Device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160609123544.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 02:21:42AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > It may take another 20 years before the race condition > between govts and freedom of the net yields a real winner, > or a real meltdown. > I suspect in up to 20 years climate change will screw earth hard. Humans have seen revolutions, but did something change for the good of the sheeple? "real winner" likely will be government, which people can't screw or possibly "robin hood" dictatorship. From moosehadley at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 13:57:10 2016 From: moosehadley at gmail.com (moosehadley at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:57:10 -0400 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> Message-ID: Took a look at it, Looks like the person who made it has decent intentions. It's just general questions about how you use PGP (when did you generate your first keypair? is your key personal, professional, or shared?) And every question can be skipped. If you feel like helping this guy get his P.H.D. just fill it out anonymously. > On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Kivo Eba Ng wrote: > > This came to my inbox. However, I wouldn’t touch this with a 10’ pole. From moosehadley at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 13:57:55 2016 From: moosehadley at gmail.com (moosehadley at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:57:55 -0400 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> Message-ID: <6042D341-47FD-431A-B13D-A16D103F232D@gmail.com> MSc, not PHD > On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:57 PM, moosehadley at gmail.com wrote: > > Took a look at it, > Looks like the person who made it has decent intentions. > It's just general questions about how you use PGP (when did you generate your first keypair? is your key personal, professional, or shared?) > > And every question can be skipped. > > If you feel like helping this guy get his P.H.D. just fill it out anonymously. > >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Kivo Eba Ng wrote: >> >> This came to my inbox. However, I wouldn’t touch this with a 10’ pole. From seanl at literati.org Thu Jun 9 11:04:32 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 18:04:32 +0000 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 9:52 PM grarpamp wrote: [...] > # Putting the "Tor" back in Torrent > https://gist.github.com/obvio171/addb26214a8c159f84a8 > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8022341 Code, or it didn't happen. We have ideas up the wazoo. What we lack are practical, usable implementations. I would really love to see this, but there are any number of people who have already figured this out on their own and don't need some non-programmer (I'm assuming, since this appears to be just an idea and not even a design doc being put out for review) telling them what they need to do. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 9 11:05:56 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 18:05:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The Internet As Govt Self Suicide Device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1384982054.368745.1465495556806.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: grarpamp On 6/7/16, jim bell wrote: > >  From: juan > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 18:23:17 +0000 (UTC) > jim bell wrote: >> >Apparently there are a number of easy-to-describe improvements which >> >could be made to the TOR protocol Perhaps. Though I think tor's basic design and inertia may be unsuited to GPA resistant mods, such that new project[s] would be better ground for trialing that. Doesn't mean that current nets can't be drawn from. >> >TOR is a net positive, >For quite some use cases, just not all use cases. Yes, that's why I said a "net positive". > I've argued for years that the invention of the Internet will eventually be > seen as a very slow-motion suicide by government. >Gov's don't self suicide. Usually, that's true.  The most obvious counter-examples today include Venezuela and Greece.  There is a difference, albeit small, between a government taking an action to deliberately kill itself, as opposed to a government taking an action will will eventually cause that government to be killed.  To a first approximation, both amount to "suicide". > However they may piss other >folks off, who then rise to kill them. I include that kind of event as being "suicide".          Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3797 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 9 18:40:47 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 18:40:47 -0700 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575A1A9F.6050609@riseup.net> On 06/09/2016 01:47 PM, Kivo Eba Ng wrote: > This came to my inbox. However, I wouldn’t touch this with a 10’ pole. > >> Dear PGP/GPG user, >> >> My name is Sven Braun and I am an MSc candidate at the Oxford >> Internet Institute, University of Oxford, United Kingdom. >> >> You receive this message, as your email address is publicly available >> on PGP public key servers. >> >> I am running a study on the usage of the email and data encryption >> software PGP/GPG to understand who is using PGP/GPG and encryption in >> society. >> >> I kindly invite you to participate in my >> survey: https://oii.qualtrics. >> com/SE?Q_DL=2cwWZBfUIKuwBYV_blrVb70dci9gK5T_MLRP_cOr20AuySQUMcdv&Q_CHL=email >> >> If you have any further questions about this research, please do not >> hesitate to contact me > > (+44 1865 986891) or my advisor Dr >> Anne-Marie Oostveen > > (+44 1865 287208). >> >> Many thanks in advance for your participation, >> Sven >> >> -- >> Sven Braun >> MSc Candidate, Social Science of the Internet >> Oxford Internet Institute >> University of Oxford > > > Mike > Got one too at a NON-cypherpunks list address. The person might be for real but the end use of the info might be 'surreal'. The address I received it at was the one I get tails update mail and not much else at. Odd that should be the address chosen when I have 8 or 9 sks registered addresses. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5213 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 9 02:55:19 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 19:55:19 +1000 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation Message-ID: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> http://theduran.com/germany-preparing-war-russia/ If it were all just money and politics, that would be one thing, but the demoncratic "elite" who rule our nations have a tendency to end up in war over and again, causing the death of millions of humans. It should go without saying that any mistake, oversight, misunderstanding or other unfortunate event actually triggering war this time with Russia, would be beyond anything the world has seen to date. Now just might be the time for German speakers to speak up, writing and or emailing to your politicians in the firmest civil tones you can muster. Seriously, the global oligarchs don't actually care, so we must care, individually, in the form of conscientious and resolute action of some sort, to demonstrate our care about ourselves and our brethren across this little blue planet. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 9 05:40:06 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:40:06 +1000 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation In-Reply-To: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160609124006.GA12783@x220-a02> Further: Led by Poland Europe's 'House Negroes' Compete for Darwin Awards http://www.unz.com/tsaker/led-by-poland-the-european-house-negroes-compete-for-the-darwin-awards/ http://thesaker.is/lead-by-poland-the-european-house-negroes-compete-for-the-darwin-awards/ The Empire Is Smashing the 'B' in BRICS http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160608/1041017686/brics-brazil-coup.html Obama to Putin: 'Drop Dead', Refuses to Discuss Nuclear War Risk Caused By US Missile Shield http://russia-insider.com/en/obama-slams-door-putins-face-says-if-putin-doesnt-want-russias-retaliatory-forces-eliminated-hell How Russia is preparing for WWIII http://thesaker.is/how-russia-is-preparing-for-wwiii/ G7 Boldly Displays Its Lies Regarding Anti-Russia Sanctions http://thesaker.is/g7-boldly-displays-its-lies-regarding-anti-russia-sanctions/ 30,000 Troops Kick Off NATO's Largest Eastern Europe War Game Ever, Will Practice Invading Russia's Kaliningrad http://news.antiwar.com/2016/06/06/nato-begins-largest-e-europe-war-game-since-cold-war/ http://russia-insider.com/en/30000-troops-kick-natos-largest-eastern-europe-war-game-ever/ri14840 "Some 31,000 NATO troops are in Eastern Europe today for “Anaconda-2016,” which officials are describing as the single biggest war games held in the region since the Cold War, following months of NATO buildup which had similarly been likened to the Cold War era." When It Comes to Russia, the New York Times Loses Its Mind http://journal-neo.org/2016/06/05/is-the-new-york-times-on-dope/ http://russia-insider.com/en/when-it-comes-russia-new-york-times-loses-its-mind/ri14831 "A media that covers for power instead of covering power, that is for the state instead of being the fourth estate" For those who have not seen it from last year: Film: How Crimea Returned to Russia without a shot being fired http://russia-insider.com/en/excellent-russian-film-about-how-crimea-returned-russia-subs-english-german-french-chinese-arabic UN Investigation Slams Ukraine for Torture, Secret Prisons http://www.globalresearch.ca/united-nations-accuses-ukrainian-security-service-sbu-of-torture/5528717 http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/un-investigation-slams-ukraine-torture-secret-prisons/ri14830 This one looks amazing, well worth a read, I'm guessing Egypt will issue a sigh of relief: Having Saved Syria, Putin Now Looking to Do the Same to Libya http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2016/06/04/After-imposing-his-will-on-Syria-Putin-is-moving-onto-Libya.html http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/having-saved-syria-putin-now-looking-do-same-libya/ri14797 From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 9 05:41:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:41:48 +1000 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation In-Reply-To: <20160609120631.GN12001@r4> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> <20160609120631.GN12001@r4> Message-ID: <20160609124148.GB12783@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 02:06:31PM +0200, Tom wrote: > On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 07:55:19PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > http://theduran.com/germany-preparing-war-russia/ > > This is nonsense. > > Their source is: > http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2016/06/06/merkel-erklaert-russland-zum-rivalen-von-deutschland/ > > deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de is run by one stupid paranoid liar. Thank you. Sounds like "Britain's" "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights". Appreciated. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 00:49:41 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 03:49:41 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: <51b8845d-be2b-571b-4ebb-b1f2d3267d16@gmail.com> References: <91bc6be3-68b4-1c07-f75c-295a861457d8@gmail.com> <51b8845d-be2b-571b-4ebb-b1f2d3267d16@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/9/16, Aymeric Vitte wrote: > I don't care at all what you think about "my stuff" Nor do I care to purchase clearnet tools or see people spammed for it. Clearnet is noninteresting fossil. > wrong appreciation/description of it, Stuff, model, same diff. I've appreciated the description of what it is and how its used. Peersm clients interact BT to clearnet to shuffle into browserland. Don't care about such clearnet use, whether optional or not. The subject says "entirely within anonymous overlay nets", that means ZERO interaction with clearnet, other than obviously the overlay itself. > I was not referring to this only > Apparently you are trying to revive some old concepts that just can't > work with bittorrent Suggest you define "old concepts" and "newer projects" with links. > "Which is why bittorrent is moving into the overlays", please clarify > what you mean > why you posted this Already did. > why popcorn time shows up here Some people think popcorn time is the only bittorrent app, and that where it appears is relavent. I don't. > Le 09/06/2016 à 18:21, grarpamp a écrit : >> On 6/9/16, Aymeric Vitte wrote: >>> Missing something here or why do you post those old links without >>> mentioning newer projects? >> Some of your stuff depends on clearnet peers / services, I see no >> need for that in the new old world of anonymous overlay networks. >> Some of your stuff is commercial, for clearnet no less, spammed >> out in every message you send. I see no need for that either. >> >> As in the subject "entirely within". >> As in the body "just a teaser". > > -- > Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist > Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass > Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org > Peersm : http://www.peersm.com > torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live > node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor > GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms > > -- > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk > From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 00:57:03 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 03:57:03 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/9/16, Sean Lynch wrote: > Code, or it didn't happen. We have ideas up the wazoo. What we lack are > practical, usable implementations. I would really love to see this, but > there are any number of people who have already figured this out on their > own and don't need some non-programmer (I'm assuming, since this appears to > be just an idea and not even a design doc being put out for review) telling > them what they need to do. Popcorn time aside, yes people have figured out that they can today practicably usably entirely BT within Tor with onioncat and BT client of choice. Similarly though a bit harder within I2P etc. If you don't understand that onion = IPv6 there, then people need to follow and read the prior onioncat link. In that case it's not necessary to hack apps (PT) to understand onion and special proxy method into tor or whatever overlay net. From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jun 10 10:18:03 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (Mr Nobody) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 17:18:03 +0000 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: <87porprnsj.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> <575A1A9F.6050609@riseup.net> <87porprnsj.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> Message-ID: <575AF64B.3010301@mail-on.us> Lol poor guy, he'll have a severe self selection problem in his survey. Christoph Egger: > Rayzer writes: >> Got one too at a NON-cypherpunks list address. The person might be for >> real but the end use of the info might be 'surreal'. The address I >> received it at was the one I get tails update mail and not much else >> at. Odd that should be the address chosen when I have 8 or 9 sks >> registered addresses. > This is how random samples work? > -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From christoph at christoph-egger.org Fri Jun 10 09:50:20 2016 From: christoph at christoph-egger.org (Christoph Egger) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 18:50:20 +0200 Subject: PGP survey invitation In-Reply-To: <575A1A9F.6050609@riseup.net> (sfid-20160610_034236_947824_93B07C23) (rayzer@riseup.net's message of "Thu, 9 Jun 2016 18:40:47 -0700") References: <45C050B8-8796-41A3-9DB1-E9A90E8A789D@riseup.net> <575A1A9F.6050609@riseup.net> Message-ID: <87porprnsj.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> Rayzer writes: > Got one too at a NON-cypherpunks list address. The person might be for > real but the end use of the info might be 'surreal'. The address I > received it at was the one I get tails update mail and not much else > at. Odd that should be the address chosen when I have 8 or 9 sks > registered addresses. This is how random samples work? From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 10 19:12:57 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:12:57 -0700 Subject: [digital-rights-activism] Oklahoma Police and your money! In-Reply-To: <20160611012209.GA21343@x220-a02> References: <1b86705b-d4ae-59a6-e221-7b84129b48a4@yandex.com> <575B2A52.9060009@yahoo.com> <20160611012209.GA21343@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575B73A9.7000806@riseup.net> On 06/10/2016 06:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 04:13:16AM -0500, Cryptobits wrote: >> > It's easier to lose all your money in Oklahoma than it is in Las Vegas! >> >⋅ >> > https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/oklahoma-police-can-seize-your-entire-bank-account-on-a-traffic-stop-without-any-charges-at-all/ In SOME PLACES they do that, or if they can't, they JAIL YOU (Ferguson, Mo is classic...) In California they go one better. All municipal infractions without criminal penalties are turned over to a state-mandated private collection agency and the municipalities receive a percentage of the value of the tickets. The collection agency then duns you for two years trying to collect then turns them over to the state IRS (Franchise Tax Board) which pays them the uncollected amount. Now... apply that to a houseless jobless person, and there has to be hundreds of thousands, literally, in California, with zero ability to pay sometime HUNDREDS of camping and other nuisance ordinance tickets they might receive over the years. Besides the harassment value of writing those tickets which is repaid to the municipality by the collection agency on receipt, the state's taxpayers pay for the cost of the ticket, and that money is locked into the judicial-law enforcement industrial complex instead of being used to, lets say, build low cost and affordable housing. Providing job development, re-integration services etc. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 17:51:50 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 20:51:50 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: References: <91bc6be3-68b4-1c07-f75c-295a861457d8@gmail.com> <51b8845d-be2b-571b-4ebb-b1f2d3267d16@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/10/16, Aymeric Vitte wrote: > [stuff] The OP subject is that - major bt indexes are now operating as onions. Though those indexed torrents specify clearnet trackers, there are also now darknet trackers and users connecting to them and sharing among themselves with their favorite udp enable bt apps by using onioncat. No hacks or other software needed. Thanks for the various subthread though. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 18:12:41 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:12:41 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: <20160610142956.GA31550@reflex> References: <20160610142956.GA31550@reflex> Message-ID: On 6/10/16, Jaromil wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jun 2016, grarpamp wrote: >> > FTR there are I2P plugins for a vast range of external clients and > even an embedded new client. I2P embedded client is a webfront toy that does not scale. Define scale as 100 to 1000+ torrents loaded in the app's index for seeding. > Oh and BTW there is even a C++ > reimplementation of I2P. This is known. Hopefully it ends up being lighter. > why "a bit harder"? Onioncat 80 is harder in I2P due to I2P address width.. There needs to be a better wider more cross darknet inclusive solution, but as you may know, that's already up for grabs in a recent former thread you can easily find / participate. > Please, lets be frank. I2P supports torrenting on its network since > many years and it works perfectly fine. As a minimal tool for small users of a few torrents. It scales worse than the combo Tor + Onioncat UDP + Transmission, plus opentracker forming initial meetup space to prime into PEX / DHT. Which people are also using right now today, entirely within Tor, and linked to some other networks via other tunnel interfaces which I won't bother to detail here. See dark docs. > need for Tor to push more "marketing" to race above "competitors". The > linked gist to conquer a new fronteer to bring more relays to Tor: BS! Didn't write it, don't share all its plan either. In particular, dislike every clearnet app on the planet having to link against library for this net, library for that net, deal with Tor's stupid lack of anything but TCP transport, talk socks5, not be peertopeer endtoend bidirectional, etc over these darknets. Leads to social balkanization and one-net specific apps like each darknet creating dinky little private tools like Snark. Not knocking i2p / snark, knocking lack of vision and cooperation to make apps interoperable across many darknets at once. As important as competitive race, is inclusion. Which yields faster adoption. Similar to how the subject line is yielding faster adoption among some percent of the 100M+ torrenters out there. > direction of best implementations and there is no doubt that I2P is > the best for torrents. Subjective statement. Best you can do is put them all in a comparison table. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 04:56:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:56:53 +1000 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation In-Reply-To: <20160609124006.GA12783@x220-a02> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> <20160609124006.GA12783@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160610115653.GA17273@x220-a02> Imagine western 'leaders' accepting such public grilling - makes me proud to have Russia in this world: "Behold, the Russian "aggressor state" with "no press freedom." " Sergei Lavrov Grilled Live on Air by Famous Russian War Reporter (Video) http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/sergei-lavrov-grilled-live-air-famous-russian-war-reporter-video/ri14791 The posturing continues: In Hitler's Steps: Huge US Military Convoy to Advance From Germany to Russia's Border http://russia-insider.com/en/hitlers-steps-huge-us-military-convoy-advance-germany-russias-border/ri14784 Nice to see they ain't denyin it: Nuland to Congress: We Spend $100 Mil a Year Trying to Destabilize Russia (Video) http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/vicky-nuland-we-spend-100-mil-year-trying-destabilize-russia/ri14888 The longer game plan of Novorossiya: Donetsk and Lugansk Republics Dress Rehearsal for Novorossia? http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/new-russian-spring-looming-ukraine/ri14892 Making hay - I love this part of the story: ‘Merkel, Be Tough! Don’t Give up! Don’t Lift the Sanctions!’ – Russian Farmer http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/merkel-be-tough-dont-give-dont-lift-sanctions-russian-farmer/ri14739 The Dick Cheney bouncing oil ball (PNAC) (also, the General Wesley Clark video half way down is well worth a watch for anyone who hasn't gotten a round tuit yet: Looks Like the Saudis Have Lost the Oil War http://journal-neo.org/2016/06/01/saudis-have-lost-the-oil-war/ You've prolly all heard Sen McCain's "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country" - seems to me "America is a global oil well theif/ thug masquerading as a country". Stephen Cohen: Unprecedented NATO Mobilization - Looks Like War With Russia (Audio Podcast) http://www.thenation.com/article/beyond-cold-war-to-mobilization-for-war-against-russia/ (So why isn't Cohen running for president?) Gadaffi's Murder in Libya Was a 'War Crime' - Lavrov http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160531/1040526924/lavrov-gaddafi-war-crime.html Perhaps just a blog post from a livejournal - only for the religiously minded (as in, please ignore it unless you may be inspired by Christian religious overtones): Putin visits Greek Church: http://russia-insider.com/en/christianity/brother-putin-did-he-become-monk/ri14738 And finally for a giggle: Brits Ecstatic With Themselves After Spotting a Surfaced Russian Sub https://www.rt.com/op-edge/345996-russian-sub-uk-media/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 21:19:00 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 00:19:00 -0400 Subject: [digital-rights-activism] Oklahoma Police and your money! In-Reply-To: <575B73A9.7000806@riseup.net> References: <1b86705b-d4ae-59a6-e221-7b84129b48a4@yandex.com> <575B2A52.9060009@yahoo.com> <20160611012209.GA21343@x220-a02> <575B73A9.7000806@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/10/16, Rayzer wrote: > > On 06/10/2016 06:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 04:13:16AM -0500, Cryptobits wrote: >>> > It's easier to lose all your money in Oklahoma than it is in Las >>> > Vegas! >>> >⋅ >>> > https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/oklahoma-police-can-seize-your-entire-bank-account-on-a-traffic-stop-without-any-charges-at-all/ > > In SOME PLACES they do that, or if they can't, they JAIL YOU (Ferguson, > Mo is classic...) Or they... well, you probably don't want to watch this, it's sad... https://player.vimeo.com/video/169710819 https://player.vimeo.com/video/169710782 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmNynzhFZzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfxbpEmPa8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySS6KOp6wPY https://theintercept.com/2016/06/07/tased-in-the-chest-for-23-seconds-dead-for-8-minutes-now-facing-a-lifetime-of-recovery/ > that money is locked into the judicial-law enforcement > industrial complex instead of being used to, lets say, build low cost > and affordable housing. Providing job development, re-integration > services etc. Sad. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 22:42:47 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 01:42:47 -0400 Subject: Tor (and other nets) probably screwed by Traffic Analysis by now Message-ID: Re subject thread, betanews, ars... https://cryptome.org/2016/06/800-backbones-tapped.pdf https://cryptome.org/2016/06/transnational-cables-tapped.pdf Also, search employment postings at cable landings / hubs, note the two post pattern of identical position descriptions, except one of them requires clearance, the other doesn't. Two sides to the room... From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 18:22:09 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 11:22:09 +1000 Subject: [digital-rights-activism] Oklahoma Police and your money! In-Reply-To: <575B2A52.9060009@yahoo.com> References: <1b86705b-d4ae-59a6-e221-7b84129b48a4@yandex.com> <575B2A52.9060009@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160611012209.GA21343@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 04:13:16AM -0500, Cryptobits wrote: > It's easier to lose all your money in Oklahoma than it is in Las Vegas! >⋅ > https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/oklahoma-police-can-seize-your-entire-bank-account-on-a-traffic-stop-without-any-charges-at-all/ On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 09:00:02PM +0000, Jack Liddy wrote: > It's a shame, there was once a a few people (two or more, depending on which version you believe) in Oklahoma who > bravely stood up to the authorities and refused to allow their massive overreach. Now this is common place and > people are helpless. "People are helpless" Well, perhaps that's the mindset that results in the few who stand, only to find that almost no one jumps on board. Or perhaps I'm overestimating and you are not one of the few who stood, in which case the only shame is that -you- did not stand with those who did. Now here's a huge firetruckin irony: last year, or perhaps early this year, slashd0t.0rg went through some management process of attempting to monetize the site (again) in a way which some of the users (perhaps most) really did not appreciate. This new website layout issue was evidently a momentous human rights trigger, since saw quite a huge campaign from quite a few members of that website, "troll" the beginning of the comments of EVERY new article, to make their point, and they proclaimed they would not stop until the website reverted to its old layout. And wouldn't you know it? Within a couple weeks (don't quote me) of sustained and diligent and united (amongst the protesters) action, they got what they wanted and the weebsite was mostly reverted back to its old layout. But having your assets/ car /bank account/ life/ anonymity of travel to be raped and pillaged? Seriously, who cares? One or two "constitutional extremists" who protest and my god, the gall of them, even go to court against the respective local, state or federal government organ? Man, how extreme, they're like, you know, like terrorists or something, our whole democracy might crumble or you know, like the end of the world, so nah, can't get up to help them... "riseup"? You're kidding me right? Humans ... get what they f**kin deserve. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 11 11:49:03 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 11:49:03 -0700 Subject: As I was saying, Juan ... (Data Overload Edition) Message-ID: <575C5D1F.7090305@riseup.net> Facing Data Deluge, Secret U.K. Spying Report Warned of Intelligence Failure 97 percent of the calls, messages, and data the program had collected were found to have been “not viewed” by the authorities. "The amount of data being collected, however, proved difficult for MI5 to handle. In March 2010, in another secret report, concerns were reiterated about the agency’s difficulties processing the material it was harvesting. “There is an imbalance between collection and exploitation capabilities, resulting in a failure to make effective use of some of the intelligence collected today,” the report noted. “With the exception of the highest priority investigations, a lack of staff and tools means that investigators are presented with raw and unfiltered DIGINT data. Frequently, this material is not fully assessed because of the significant time required to review it.” The problem was not unique to MI5. Many of the agency’s larger-scale surveillance operations were being conducted in coordination with the National Technical Assistance Centre, a unit of the electronic eavesdropping agency Government Communications Headquarters, better known as GCHQ. The Centre plays a vital but little-known role. One of its main functions is to act as a kind of intermediary, managing the highly sensitive data-sharing relationships that exist among British telecommunications companies and law enforcement and spy agencies. Perhaps the most important program the Centre helps deliver is code-named PRESTON, which covertly intercepts phone calls, text messages, and internet data sent or received by people or organizations in the U.K. who have been named as surveillance targets on warrants signed off by a government minister. A top-secret 2009 study found that, in one six-month period, the PRESTON program had intercepted more than 5 million communications. Remarkably, 97 percent of the calls, messages, and data it had collected were found to have been “not viewed” by the authorities. The authors of the study were alarmed because PRESTON was supposedly focused on known suspects, and yet most of the communications it was monitoring appeared to be getting ignored — meaning crucial intelligence could have been missed. “Only a small proportion of the Preston Traffic is viewed,” they noted. “This is of concern as the collection is all warranted.” In full: https://theintercept.com/2016/06/07/mi5-gchq-digint-surveillance-data-deluge/ Again. IF EVERYONE was using Tor, PGP, etc, NO MATTER HOW FLAWED OR COMPROMISED, it WOULD break them, and their respective country's treasury. Promoting the idea we SHOULDN'T use it and 'spread the risk' is a useful idiot's cowardly POV. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3385 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 19:02:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 12:02:25 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Graffiti "rapist lives here" at Jacob Appelbaum's house In-Reply-To: <575B423C.5080605@gmail.com> References: <8b728b279ddf918e1fa5ac45d72f47f2.webmail@localhost> <10f1ee82e116a07d1ec766d41e50f686@riseup.net> <575B2EEC.5080503@riseup.net> <575B423C.5080605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160611020225.GC21934@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 06:42:04PM -0400, Kevin wrote: > We talk about how internet bullying is wrong. Well, this is internet > bullying. This is internet bullying, descended into an internet lynch mobbing, descended further into physical net vigilante crimes. The mindset allowing for such descent, and such crimes, I believe arises from the not-handled suppression/ repression from our government organs. When we don't handle the bully in our face (papers please show your license, insert this piece of plastic into an orifice of your body so we can verify your DNA^Bblood alcohol level, your bank account has just been fleeced for your oustanding $3K of fines since that's all you had stashed their and we will take the rest next time you pass, etc etc), we repress ourselves. We have submitted to a bully, we have accepted by default (tacitly) an injustice. We are leaving the problem to the next guy as well, and to who knows perhaps our grandchildren. And the problem is, we are not leaving the same problem, we are leaving a bigger problem because the bully got a little bit more confident with his/her bullying. There are state sponsored bullies, and there are individual bullies. And the sense of powerlessness which arises since we let so many bullies (mostly the state sponsored ones) prevail in our weekly lives, leving these bullies "to the next guy", is a foundation which is ripe for YOU jumping into a lynch mob! "Oh look, a single non state sponsored individual who REALLY did something wrong! Yeah let's crucify him! Crucify him now! I know the courts are fucked and the police are corrupt, so we must crucify him/her NOW so we can finally FEEL a bit of justice!" Fact is, the foundation of a lynch mobber is one of intense cowardice. The public cricifixion is nothing but a release valve, and the weak (non state sponsored) individual target of the mob, pays a very high and very public price for the cowardice of the many. EVERY one must ask themselves, am I a coward? Am I not doing my part to handle the bullies in my own life? Am I leaving the problems to the next guy "who I'm so fucking grateful for, my heroes"? When will I start living my part for the world I want to live in, which starts in my own home, my own communities, my own country? Or will I continue to cowardly leave shit to the next guy... From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 22:12:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:12:48 +1000 Subject: [digital-rights-activism] Oklahoma Police and your money! In-Reply-To: References: <1b86705b-d4ae-59a6-e221-7b84129b48a4@yandex.com> <575B2A52.9060009@yahoo.com> <20160611012209.GA21343@x220-a02> <575B73A9.7000806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160611051248.GA30380@x220-a02> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:19:00AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/10/16, Rayzer wrote: > > > > On 06/10/2016 06:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 04:13:16AM -0500, Cryptobits wrote: > >>> > It's easier to lose all your money in Oklahoma than it is in Las > >>> > Vegas! > >>> >⋅ > >>> > https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/oklahoma-police-can-seize-your-entire-bank-account-on-a-traffic-stop-without-any-charges-at-all/ > > > > In SOME PLACES they do that, or if they can't, they JAIL YOU (Ferguson, > > Mo is classic...) > > Or they... well, you probably don't want to watch this, it's sad... > > https://player.vimeo.com/video/169710819 > https://player.vimeo.com/video/169710782 > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmNynzhFZzY > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfxbpEmPa8c > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySS6KOp6wPY Sickening. To average folks - this is what you consent to by default as you continue to fail to oppose, as you continue to do nothing to rights these and so many other wrongs, as you continue to put your mortgage and your kids football practice ahead of any sanity in your own government, your own country's systems of control, domination and bullying. THIS is what you are leaving to your children as they grow up. > https://theintercept.com/2016/06/07/tased-in-the-chest-for-23-seconds-dead-for-8-minutes-now-facing-a-lifetime-of-recovery/ > > > that money is locked into the judicial-law enforcement > > industrial complex instead of being used to, lets say, build low cost > > and affordable housing. Providing job development, re-integration > > services etc. > > Sad. The road to chaos is being well and truly laid in America, and tacitly consented to by the majority of humans in that country. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 22:43:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 15:43:49 +1000 Subject: global censorship Message-ID: <20160611054349.GA30976@x220-a02> So I try to load the following news item in TBB: http://www.pravdareport.com/news/hotspots/crimes/10-06-2016/134690-donbass_war-0/ It just comes up completely blank. No worries a quick "new circuit for this site" and ... still blank. OK, let's search google cache. google.com redirects to google.ch. paste in url, search - no cache, no results, but 403 "that's an error. Your client does not have permission to get URL /...". Rinse repeat, new circuit for this site, paste, search, same result 403. Netherlands, switzerland, at this point I give up and use firefox. I just want to read the news article, which happens to be a little topical - lynch mob, but this one's in Ukraine, physical net. Bingo, page appears. What gives? Why so many blocks to this particular article (since, BTW, I loaded 4 other articles from the same website, within the same minute or so, and they all appeared in separate tabs in tbb no problems) ?? From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 10 23:08:09 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 16:08:09 +1000 Subject: global censorship In-Reply-To: <20160611054349.GA30976@x220-a02> References: <20160611054349.GA30976@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160611060808.GA31931@x220-a02> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 03:43:49PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > So I try to load the following news item in TBB: > http://www.pravdareport.com/news/hotspots/crimes/10-06-2016/134690-donbass_war-0/ > > It just comes up completely blank. No worries a quick "new circuit for > this site" and ... still blank. > > OK, let's search google cache. google.com redirects to google.ch. paste in > url, search - no cache, no results, but 403 "that's an error. Your client > does not have permission to get URL /...". > > Rinse repeat, new circuit for this site, paste, search, same result 403. > > Netherlands, switzerland, at this point I give up and use firefox. I just > want to read the news article, which happens to be a little topical - > lynch mob, but this one's in Ukraine, physical net. > > Bingo, page appears. > > What gives? Why so many blocks to this particular article (since, BTW, I > loaded 4 other articles from the same website, within the same minute or > so, and they all appeared in separate tabs in tbb no problems) ?? I guess it could also be a pretty basic nation-level network shock testing (targetting a particular user, in this case, whether it was me or not who knows) - as in, five URL requests come in, spread out over about half a minute or less, perfect opportunity to stuff up the timing of replies, or completely block some of those replies to that same website. Did I mention I'm really dissatisifed with the current state of anonymity software? no fill traffic, no traffic timing/ latency randomization etc (allowing user to choose their preferences/ tolerances of course). Middle nodes of any significant capacity may have to have relatively restrictive windows for such things, or there might be cache size issues to provide that randomized latency, certainly needs a bit of mathematical theoretical analysis to determine what would make sense for Tor's concept of middle nodes/ pure relays. Anyway, now I'm essentially rambling I guess. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 11 20:50:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:50:38 -0700 Subject: current issues re the potential of Kurdistan In-Reply-To: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> References: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575CDC0E.2050304@riseup.net> The Kurds are Exceptional... The US keeps screwing them over and over and over again and they seem to like it. Did you know a hundred years ago they were animists who believed in magic? If you drew a circle around one they couldn't escape. George Gurdjieff recounted one such incident in his autobiography Meetings with Remarkable Men. Rr On 06/11/2016 08:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > By Retaking Raqqa Syrian Army May Upset 'Federalization' Plan > http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160610/1041140173/syria-raqqa-kurds-federalization.html > > > I don't think Kurdistan in any form will come out from this particular CIA > initiated war in Syria - there are too many regional fears of an expanding > Kurdistan (into Turkey and Iran for example, not to mention Iraq and Syria > of course), and there appears to be some genuine understanding that > religious based government becomes quite intolerant of minorities, and > therefore a greater desire in the people for a separation of religion and > state, if nothing else than for to maximise longer term stability. > > In all areas of Jihadistan, I can only agree. > > And it's hard to not oppose Exceptionalistan (USA) on principle these > days... > > And it certainly does not look like Russia will let Syria 'fall', being a > long term strategic partner. > > Doesn't change the fact though of the existence of the YPJ and the > potential longer term cultural catalytic effects they may cause - here's > hoping. > > Good luck humans > > Rojava https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava > YPJ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Protection_Units > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kurt.buff at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 20:54:58 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 20:54:58 -0700 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: Anarchism is hard for some people to differentiate from nihilism. Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises and, most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David Friedman, too. Once you've made your way through their works, you can call yourself educated in anarchism. Ignore Emma Goldman, the various Russian anarchist, the anarcho-syndicalists, etc. - they aren't serious. Kurt On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > It seems that nearly everyone in this day and age is a statist to some > degree, Juan excepted :) > > Why is this so, I have asked myself. > > The state is a bully, and no one has escaped the experiences of being > bullied by the state - RBTs, license checks, seizing of bank accounts > outside of any court hearing nor any chance for the target to be heard in > a court of law with a righteous jurisdiction; > and anyway, the courts, that last bastion of freedom and justice against > the tyranny of the state, is almost completely, systemically, > instutitionally corrupt by any common man standard. > > The state seizes taxes at every corner, violates our constitutions, > unilaterally attacks other states, and conspires year after year to > increase the burdens and the violations of its own constituents, namely we > the people. > > The state (whether USA, Australia, etc) is nowadays so abhorrent, so in > violation of the constitution which created it, so outside of ethics, > morals, anything resembling higher causes or principles, it really is a > beast of epic proportion which must be slayed or transformed, or the > descent to total chaos war and bloodshed will once again happen, just > another war to end all wars. > > Yet nearly everyone still clings to the state. Whether implicitly (it's > the best history has given us, other options would of course be so much > worse) or explicitly (driver licenses are our only hope to rid the world > of evil environment destroying cars). > > > 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust > ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, > creativity, leisure, life, family, mortgage and the rest before any higher > principle, in denial of the magnificence of that which we be, that which > we are, these incredible universes we stroll around in. > > We expect "others won't stand behind me if I did take a stand against a > bully or a tyranny, because deep down I know I am probably unlikely to get > behind someone else taking a stand - especially since I haven't seen > myself do so yet, so I have no evidence suggesting I'm that way inclined, > so it's most likely true." > > We hail the heroes "oh I think it's awesome that history proves that > someone comes along to fix things up every now and then - at a minimum on > average of every 400 years". > > Yes this and endless more excuses for not supporing your local freedom > "fighters" even in a small way, fatalism is just one more excuse. I've > heard so many of them. > > > 'We' live in golden cages. By historical standards, almost everyone in the > West can eat cheesecake every day, travel to friends and sights and events > one way or another, drape ourselves in silk and suede, or lounge on the > beach. > > And the gold cage is never enough, the car or pushbike really needs to be > newer, faster, with better suspension, and I want more and my kids need to > go to more activities and events and and and... I have my life to live. > > > And the state redistributes the wealth of others to make our golden cages. > So we encage one another, binding our fellow man to tyranny, > binding ourselves to self serving, self centered, selfish non action. > > Sleepwalking in comfort whilst the beast prepares its final meal. > > Gee it's great that heroes come along and solve such problems in history > occasionally... now don't interrupt me whilst I shout down your Trump > rebellion and screem the benefits of The Democratic Platform > notwithstanding the evil that my state has become regardless. > > Cowards most of us. From rysiek at hackerspace.pl Sat Jun 11 12:37:13 2016 From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:37:13 +0200 Subject: Is there a moderated version of cpunks? In-Reply-To: <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> References: <2622801465326537@web12j.yandex.ru> <57572701.1203370a.bb048.2e14@mx.google.com> <78a730748030b2f02776fbee0c11a97c@cypherpoet.com> Message-ID: <2125334.M30IH5v75l@lapuntu> Dnia środa, 8 czerwca 2016 12:08:35 CEST Nathan Andrew Fain pisze: > Does anyone maintain a moderated mirror of this list? If so, feel free > to message me off list. I'd also be happy to help maintain it when I > have time. I think such an effort would have been entirely in fain, if I may say so. -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 931 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From kurt.buff at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 21:59:07 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:59:07 -0700 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 9:07 PM, eden wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Kurt Buff wrote: >> Anarchism is hard for some people to differentiate from nihilism. > > I agree. > >> Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises and, >> most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David Friedman, too. >> >> Once you've made your way through their works, you can call yourself >> educated in anarchism. >> >> Ignore Emma Goldman, the various Russian anarchist, the >> anarcho-syndicalists, etc. - they aren't serious. > > Are you serious? > > Von MISES? How would you distinguish between Anarchism and > Libertarianism (and nihilism)? Yes, I'm serious, including about von Mises. He's extraordinarily influential, and Rothbard cites him as a primary influence. You must grant him (as you must with other historical figures, especially those of intellectual stature) the limitations of his time and place. See especially https://www.amazon.com/Mises-Liberalism-J%C3%B6rg-Guido-H%C3%BClsmann/dp/193355018X/. He was not prepared to take the last few steps toward repudiating government, but he laid the foundation for those who would. Libertarians (both big and small 'L') usually postulate some form of minimalist government - usually of the "night watchman" strain. Nihilism (as opposed to both regular libertarianism and individualist anarchism) seems to eschew both personal responsibility and the logic of causality, preferring the dream state of absolute freedom, without consequence. Kurt From kurt.buff at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 22:53:04 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 22:53:04 -0700 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Александр wrote: >> Zenaan Harkness, zen at freedbms.net: >> >> It seems that nearly everyone in this day and age is a statist to some >> degree, Juan excepted :) >> >> Why is this so, I have asked myself. >> >> The state is a bully, and no one has escaped the experiences of being >> bullied by the state - RBTs, license checks, seizing of bank accounts >> outside of any court hearing nor any chance for the target to be heard in >> a court of law with a righteous jurisdiction; >> and anyway, the courts, that last bastion of freedom and justice against >> the tyranny of the state, is almost completely, systemically, >> instutitionally corrupt by any common man standard. >> >> The state seizes taxes at every corner, violates our constitutions, >> unilaterally attacks other states, and conspires year after year to >> increase the burdens and the violations of its own constituents, namely we >> the people. >> >> The state (whether USA, Australia, etc) is nowadays so abhorrent, so in >> violation of the constitution which created it, so outside of ethics, >> morals, anything resembling higher causes or principles, it really is a >> beast of epic proportion which must be slayed or transformed, or the >> descent to total chaos war and bloodshed will once again happen, just >> another war to end all wars. >> >> Yet nearly everyone still clings to the state. Whether implicitly (it's >> the best history has given us, other options would of course be so much >> worse) or explicitly (driver licenses are our only hope to rid the world >> of evil environment destroying cars). >> >> 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust >> ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, >> creativity, leisure, life, family, mortgage and the rest before any higher >> principle, in denial of the magnificence of that which we be, that which >> we are, these incredible universes we stroll around in. >> >> We expect "others won't stand behind me if I did take a stand against a >> bully or a tyranny, because deep down I know I am probably unlikely to get >> behind someone else taking a stand - especially since I haven't seen >> myself do so yet, so I have no evidence suggesting I'm that way inclined, >> so it's most likely true." >> >> We hail the heroes "oh I think it's awesome that history proves that >> someone comes along to fix things up every now and then - at a minimum on >> average of every 400 years". >> >> Yes this and endless more excuses for not supporing your local freedom >> "fighters" even in a small way, fatalism is just one more excuse. I've >> heard so many of them. >> >> 'We' live in golden cages. By historical standards, almost everyone in the >> West can eat cheesecake every day, travel to friends and sights and events >> one way or another, drape ourselves in silk and suede, or lounge on the >> beach. >> >> And the gold cage is never enough, the car or pushbike really needs to be >> newer, faster, with better suspension, and I want more and my kids need to >> go to more activities and events and and and... I have my life to live. >> >> And the state redistributes the wealth of others to make our golden cages. >> So we encage one another, binding our fellow man to tyranny, >> binding ourselves to self serving, self centered, selfish non action. >> >> Sleepwalking in comfort whilst the beast prepares its final meal. >> >> Gee it's great that heroes come along and solve such problems in history >> occasionally... now don't interrupt me whilst I shout down your Trump >> rebellion and screem the benefits of The Democratic Platform >> notwithstanding the evil that my state has become regardless. >> >> Cowards most of us. > > Wonderful speech, Zenaan. Gives so much food for thought & actions... > In the past 4 days i have read so much powerful stuff from you... something > really great is going on in your head-heart-soul. DON"T STOP IT! :) > >> 2016-06-12 6:54 GMT+03:00 Kurt Buff : >> Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises and, >> most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David Friedman, too. >> >> Once you've made your way through their works, you can call yourself >> educated in anarchism. > > That's really great, Kurt. But Zenaan is asking WHY don't we > act? Why do we live like SLAVES? and WHEN will we start putting great words > (like in the books you listed) into ACTIONS? > > Knowledge is NOT ONLY about "knowing" it in brain, you know... It's about > incarnating it into actions = into ones physical life! > > Even in this cypherpunk list, i believe there are 80% at least, who don't > need more "insights/education of how everything sucks and how one should (at > least try to) repair it". > BUT > as Zenaan says in his speech,- self serving (egoismus) and self delusion get > the victory over all our great intentions and insights. > > Cowards most of us. There's a difference between cowardice and understanding that some/many/most actions in support of liberty are [un|counter]productive. Plus, as we age, we accumulate obligations, some of which (marriage and children especially) are vastly inhibitory. This is not to say that action for freedom is worthless, but it does mean that one must be judicious in choosing those actions which will productive and worth the risk. It's important to realize that not all actions which are morally legitimate are reasonable. Take for instance the writings of Richard Slomon, who advocated for a number of (in his philosophy) morally legitimate actions (cf "retaliatory recapture"), but who didn't actually undertake those actions, for various reasons. (https://thedegree.org/research/richard-r-slomon-archive/) Lastly, one should realize that your first obligation is to yourself, then to your [chosen] family/friends, and finally none at all to "society", which is a construct of dubious utility, and which doesn't exist on its own. It's not a matter of "every man for himself and devil take the hindmost", it's a matter of "there's only so much one can do, and the most important things come first". Kurt From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 11 06:35:12 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:35:12 +1000 Subject: 2 year concise recap - US, Syria, lying like a clinton, dissolving the EU Message-ID: <20160611133512.GA2238@x220-a02> This is concise in wording, so I appreciate it, yet detailed so not particularly short. Journal-Neo.org is nearly always in depth like this it seems. The US Congress Debates: The Funding of World War III http://journal-neo.org/2016/06/07/the-us-congress-debates-the-funding-of-world-war-iii/ I guess someone will record the old song "Cryin like a refugee" as "Lyin like a Clinton". And to pre-empt a retort from last year, no, the facts of America's actions is not a beat up on America, it's simply facts. If you can spare the time, this article's a great and succinct read covering a lot of territory. Enjoy. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 22:05:44 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 02:05:44 -0300 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575ced8a.8fa4370a.129c7.fffff440@mx.google.com> On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:59:07 -0700 Kurt Buff wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 9:07 PM, eden wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Kurt Buff > > wrote: > >> Anarchism is hard for some people to differentiate from nihilism. > > > > I agree. > > > >> Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises > >> and, most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David > >> Friedman, too. > >> > >> Once you've made your way through their works, you can call > >> yourself educated in anarchism. > >> > >> Ignore Emma Goldman, the various Russian anarchist, the > >> anarcho-syndicalists, etc. - they aren't serious. > > > > Are you serious? > > > > Von MISES? How would you distinguish between Anarchism and > > Libertarianism (and nihilism)? > > > Yes, I'm serious, including about von Mises. He's extraordinarily > influential mises was a second rate utiliarian **statist**. His only connection to anarchism is that he made some of the most stupid criticism of anarchism you could ever read. looks like now we have a bot from the austrian cult of economics , and Rothbard cites him as a primary influence. You must > grant him (as you must with other historical figures, especially those > of intellectual stature) the limitations of his time and place. See > especially > https://www.amazon.com/Mises-Liberalism-J%C3%B6rg-Guido-H%C3%BClsmann/dp/193355018X/. > He was not prepared to take the last few steps toward repudiating > government, but he laid the foundation for those who would. > > Libertarians (both big and small 'L') usually postulate some form of > minimalist government - usually of the "night watchman" strain. > > Nihilism (as opposed to both regular libertarianism and individualist > anarchism) seems to eschew both personal responsibility and the logic > of causality, preferring the dream state of absolute freedom, without > consequence. > > Kurt From edenw at gal3.com Sat Jun 11 21:07:23 2016 From: edenw at gal3.com (eden) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 04:07:23 +0000 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Kurt Buff wrote: > Anarchism is hard for some people to differentiate from nihilism. I agree. > Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises and, > most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David Friedman, too. > > Once you've made your way through their works, you can call yourself > educated in anarchism. > > Ignore Emma Goldman, the various Russian anarchist, the > anarcho-syndicalists, etc. - they aren't serious. Are you serious? Von MISES? How would you distinguish between Anarchism and Libertarianism (and nihilism)? -- eden From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 22:02:02 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 08:02:02 +0300 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: > > *Zenaan Harkness, zen at freedbms.net :* > > It seems that nearly everyone in this day and age is a statist to some > degree, Juan excepted :) > > Why is this so, I have asked myself. > > The state is a bully, and no one has escaped the experiences of being > bullied by the state - RBTs, license checks, seizing of bank accounts > outside of any court hearing nor any chance for the target to be heard in > a court of law with a righteous jurisdiction; > and anyway, the courts, that last bastion of freedom and justice against > the tyranny of the state, is almost completely, systemically, > instutitionally corrupt by any common man standard. > > The state seizes taxes at every corner, violates our constitutions, > unilaterally attacks other states, and conspires year after year to > increase the burdens and the violations of its own constituents, namely we > the people. > > The state (whether USA, Australia, etc) is nowadays so abhorrent, so in > violation of the constitution which created it, so outside of ethics, > morals, anything resembling higher causes or principles, it really is a > beast of epic proportion which must be slayed or transformed, or the > descent to total chaos war and bloodshed will once again happen, just > another war to end all wars. > > Yet nearly everyone still clings to the state. Whether implicitly (it's > the best history has given us, other options would of course be so much > worse) or explicitly (driver licenses are our only hope to rid the world > of evil environment destroying cars). > > 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust > ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, > creativity, leisure, life, family, mortgage and the rest before any higher > principle, in denial of the magnificence of that which we be, that which > we are, these incredible universes we stroll around in. > > We expect "others won't stand behind me if I did take a stand against a > bully or a tyranny, because deep down I know I am probably unlikely to get > behind someone else taking a stand - especially since I haven't seen > myself do so yet, so I have no evidence suggesting I'm that way inclined, > so it's most likely true." > > We hail the heroes "oh I think it's awesome that history proves that > someone comes along to fix things up every now and then - at a minimum on > average of every 400 years". > > Yes this and endless more excuses for not supporing your local freedom > "fighters" even in a small way, fatalism is just one more excuse. I've > heard so many of them. > > 'We' live in golden cages. By historical standards, almost everyone in the > West can eat cheesecake every day, travel to friends and sights and events > one way or another, drape ourselves in silk and suede, or lounge on the > beach. > > And the gold cage is never enough, the car or pushbike really needs to be > newer, faster, with better suspension, and I want more and my kids need to > go to more activities and events and and and... I have my life to live. > > And the state redistributes the wealth of others to make our golden cages. > So we encage one another, binding our fellow man to tyranny, > binding ourselves to self serving, self centered, selfish non action. > > Sleepwalking in comfort whilst the beast prepares its final meal. > > Gee it's great that heroes come along and solve such problems in history > occasionally... now don't interrupt me whilst I shout down your Trump > rebellion and screem the benefits of The Democratic Platform > notwithstanding the evil that my state has become regardless. > > Cowards most of us. > Wonderful speech, Zenaan. Gives so much food for thought & actions... In the past 4 days i have read so much powerful stuff from you... something really great is going on in your head-heart-soul. DON"T STOP IT! :) 2016-06-12 6:54 GMT+03:00 Kurt Buff : > Try reading Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Ludwig von Mises and, > most especially, Murray Rothbard. Maybe a bit of David Friedman, too. > > Once you've made your way through their works, you can call yourself > educated in anarchism. > That's really great, Kurt. But Zenaan is asking WHY don't we ​*​* * act*? Why do we live like SLAVES? and WHEN will we start putting great words (like in the books you listed) *into ACTIONS*? Knowledge is NOT ONLY about "knowing" it in brain, you know... It's about incarnating it into actions = into ones physical life! Even in this cypherpunk list, i believe there are 80% at least, who don't need more "insights/education of how everything sucks and how one should (at least try to) repair it". *BUT* as Zenaan says in his speech,- *self serving (egoismus) and self delusion* get the victory over all our great intentions and insights. *Cowards most of us.* . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5709 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Sun Jun 12 06:18:07 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:18:07 -0400 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: <20160612095723.GA6765@x220-a02> References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> <20160612095723.GA6765@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575D610F.5080604@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/12/2016 05:57 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> Lastly, one should realize that your first obligation is to >> yourself, then to your [chosen] family/friends, and finally none >> at all to "society", which is a construct of dubious utility, and >> which doesn't exist on its own. It's not a matter of "every man >> for himself and devil take the hindmost", it's a matter of >> "there's only so much one can do, and the most important things >> come first". > > Problem is, "most important things", in almost all humans, fails > to include "actions which will in some (even small) way, bring > forward some correction or shift to my wayward state, in which I am > in some small way a party to". [description of issue oriented populist political activism omitted ] > Good luck, and may your actions speak for you. Rock the world in > your own little way. Inspire others where possible. Do what we can. > Amongst the 100s of causes and slogans, one may take off - and > that's all that's needed! Enjoy the ride. Plus one on that. Let me get out my Norton II hat & soap box for a minute here. Anarchism provides a frame of reference that enables us to understand how systems of government actually work, and what we can do with and to them in purely practical terms. Anarchism does not propose a Utopian system of government to replace the ones already in place, nor is it a call to "smash the State" and replace it with nothing. Anarchism describes a group of people who work together for mutual advantage as a syndicate. Syndicates organize themselves to develop and exploit resources for social and economic gain, often in competition against rival syndicates and among their own membership. In a stable going concern State, law and public policy are whatever its dominant syndicates impose by force on the rest of the people in the territory they control through the State. In this context force means applied power, not just physical violence: Propaganda, elaborate deceptions and economic incentives do all the heavy lifting. Competent State authorities only apply kidnapping and murder when other methods of manipulation fail: Violence "is wrong" in the sense that, except in the context of terrorism (using the threat of violence to enforce compliant behavior), violence destroys valuable resources that "should" properly belong to the dominant syndicates. Anarchists study politics as social power: Who has it, who does not, and how these groups interact. As such, Anarchism provides a frame of reference for analyzing and comparing various "systems of government" and for modifying these systems where and as useful opportunities to do so arise. A State sanctioned discipline called Human Ecology seeks to exploit anarchist theory for the exclusive benefit of dominant syndicates. Anarchy becomes a visible "force" when and as enough previously unorganized people push back against State sanctioned syndicates to forcibly modify those syndicates' behavior. When dominant syndicates controlling a State lose touch with reality and exceed the bounds of their real social power, they may do enough physical and economic harm to motivate active rebellion among formerly docile State subjects. At these times, Anarchists provide propaganda, educational resources, and facilitation to enable formerly unorganized people to form effective ad hoc syndicates of their own, and exercise the specific forms of social and economic power accessible to them. In the context of political warfare, Anarchism functions as a force mltiplier: By themselves, anarchists do not have the material resource base needed to affect significant changes in the behavior of State sanctioned syndicates. But where and as substantial numbers of disenfranchised people begin to demand social and economic power of their own, anarchists can facilitate the rapid development of effective organization, realistic goal setting, and effective action by those motivated people. Some call this process Direct Democracy. As a countermeasure to the potential impact of Anarchist theory and practice on the behavior of populations dominated by powerful minority syndicates, State sanctioned propagandists present a fictional version of Anarchism based on nihilism. States spare no expense in promoting and reinforcing a false definition of Anarchy as "violent opposition to social order of any kind." Naive self identifying anarchists who rebel as they are told by State sponsored propagandists provide "living proof" that the State's definition of Anarchy is correct. The well promoted presence of these pseudo-anarchists on mass communication networks diverts and obstructs public access to Anarchist resources - except where and as "real" anarchists effectively weaponize their own understanding of propaganda and information warfare techniques. Well that's enough about that for now. Get busy. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXXWEOAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq6cQH/RRCqCkkRIa5rtmc8dtbAIB9 HEm+OssWZJAqz+Qq3TQVrj2ErOP81Dth+wWUJ+KO1fjfrw+gtSXCzMU7sCeEAaAB 5OmZUbRDSxZfJ82DLIsjS8eEoTWT0yhzn59Du0aD508M89e6yUMd/xgwdsr24rw1 e4ZexCytdxtsg2j1j8CJ7hmDZUetaJMrVpL7cJlD5TOKzoDLVlLkibzFxtz3mhiL oRAoYcFaKEVI7rhoYfVL84kNlZzZx930a4F5Qg5WK4XgA3fP/o03dItWTlqMLmK3 rNQ2JIBRAtcOLg3rSoq41px0zjttBbKlPEOxKsNsr47QFcEY/0CiAf5gxPzdI3s= =4d3l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 11 20:04:02 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:04:02 +1000 Subject: current issues re the potential of Kurdistan Message-ID: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> By Retaking Raqqa Syrian Army May Upset 'Federalization' Plan http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160610/1041140173/syria-raqqa-kurds-federalization.html I don't think Kurdistan in any form will come out from this particular CIA initiated war in Syria - there are too many regional fears of an expanding Kurdistan (into Turkey and Iran for example, not to mention Iraq and Syria of course), and there appears to be some genuine understanding that religious based government becomes quite intolerant of minorities, and therefore a greater desire in the people for a separation of religion and state, if nothing else than for to maximise longer term stability. In all areas of Jihadistan, I can only agree. And it's hard to not oppose Exceptionalistan (USA) on principle these days... And it certainly does not look like Russia will let Syria 'fall', being a long term strategic partner. Doesn't change the fact though of the existence of the YPJ and the potential longer term cultural catalytic effects they may cause - here's hoping. Good luck humans Rojava https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava YPJ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Protection_Units From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 11 20:33:41 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:33:41 +1000 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist Message-ID: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> It seems that nearly everyone in this day and age is a statist to some degree, Juan excepted :) Why is this so, I have asked myself. The state is a bully, and no one has escaped the experiences of being bullied by the state - RBTs, license checks, seizing of bank accounts outside of any court hearing nor any chance for the target to be heard in a court of law with a righteous jurisdiction; and anyway, the courts, that last bastion of freedom and justice against the tyranny of the state, is almost completely, systemically, instutitionally corrupt by any common man standard. The state seizes taxes at every corner, violates our constitutions, unilaterally attacks other states, and conspires year after year to increase the burdens and the violations of its own constituents, namely we the people. The state (whether USA, Australia, etc) is nowadays so abhorrent, so in violation of the constitution which created it, so outside of ethics, morals, anything resembling higher causes or principles, it really is a beast of epic proportion which must be slayed or transformed, or the descent to total chaos war and bloodshed will once again happen, just another war to end all wars. Yet nearly everyone still clings to the state. Whether implicitly (it's the best history has given us, other options would of course be so much worse) or explicitly (driver licenses are our only hope to rid the world of evil environment destroying cars). 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, creativity, leisure, life, family, mortgage and the rest before any higher principle, in denial of the magnificence of that which we be, that which we are, these incredible universes we stroll around in. We expect "others won't stand behind me if I did take a stand against a bully or a tyranny, because deep down I know I am probably unlikely to get behind someone else taking a stand - especially since I haven't seen myself do so yet, so I have no evidence suggesting I'm that way inclined, so it's most likely true." We hail the heroes "oh I think it's awesome that history proves that someone comes along to fix things up every now and then - at a minimum on average of every 400 years". Yes this and endless more excuses for not supporing your local freedom "fighters" even in a small way, fatalism is just one more excuse. I've heard so many of them. 'We' live in golden cages. By historical standards, almost everyone in the West can eat cheesecake every day, travel to friends and sights and events one way or another, drape ourselves in silk and suede, or lounge on the beach. And the gold cage is never enough, the car or pushbike really needs to be newer, faster, with better suspension, and I want more and my kids need to go to more activities and events and and and... I have my life to live. And the state redistributes the wealth of others to make our golden cages. So we encage one another, binding our fellow man to tyranny, binding ourselves to self serving, self centered, selfish non action. Sleepwalking in comfort whilst the beast prepares its final meal. Gee it's great that heroes come along and solve such problems in history occasionally... now don't interrupt me whilst I shout down your Trump rebellion and screem the benefits of The Democratic Platform notwithstanding the evil that my state has become regardless. Cowards most of us. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 11:56:42 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 15:56:42 -0300 Subject: In support of Spooner: dominion, and the Christian Bible as a legal document In-Reply-To: <20160612132258.GA7714@x220-a02> References: <20160612132258.GA7714@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575db04a.74548c0a.6e97b.271f@mx.google.com> State AND church are the enemy. In the west, jew-christian religion is the sworn enemy of freedom. Natural law has nothing to do with jew-christian theocracy. Natural law is based on reason, not not on the scams of theocrats. On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:22:58 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Quoting the King James Bible, Authorised Edition: > Genesis: > "1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: > and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the > fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and > over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. > > 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created > he him; male and female created he them. > > 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and > multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion > over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over > every living thing that moveth upon the earth." > > > In Australia, our federal Constitution (the Commonwealth of Australia > Constitution Act 1901, clause 9), invokes the Blessing of Almighty > God, and references the bible, the King James Bible Authorised > Edition to be precise. > > This foundation may be useful to those confronting a purported court. > > There is likely a similar foundation in America. > > > By my understanding of Spooner, "natural law" and "natural justice" is > universal natural principal needing no statute to define it, which > would demonstrate a contradiction - if justice, right and wrong, > requires a law to define it, then it is no longer a natural / > universal principal. > > Our current predominant "shared common delusions" include courts, and > police carrying guns requiring we go to court (or arresting us and > taking us there by physical force). > > So we face the current reality of our society as it is, not as we > would like it to be. > > It is in this context that getting back to the foundations of the > founding fathers, and the principles of natural justice and dominion, > and making use of those documents held in some regard and referenced, > and at the very foundation of our constitution (at least here in > Australia) by our founding fathers, namely the King James Bible, may > have a utilitarian value in handling the current reality we face > ourselves within. > > > > It's perhaps a great blessing that Spooner never finished his > voluminous treatise on natural justice, since this pamphlet, the > limit of his treatise, is so short even a slow reader with attention > deficit disorder has hope to focus for long enough, over a few > sittings, to get through this short list of paragraphs. I suggest > this Lysander Spooner's pamphlet be required reading for all and > sundry. Help spread the word - I shall. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 12:24:35 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 16:24:35 -0300 Subject: In support of Spooner: dominion, and the Christian Bible as a legal document In-Reply-To: <20160612132258.GA7714@x220-a02> References: <20160612132258.GA7714@x220-a02> Message-ID: <575db6d3.5324c80a.a6b5b.3339@mx.google.com> Spooner on christianity : The Deist's Reply to the Alleged Supernatural Evidences of Christianity (1836) Spooner's comment on 'jesus' character : "Perhaps the most conspicuous defects in his personal character were, 1st, his readiness to resort to subterfuge, when challenged to work miracles, by those who doubted his miraculous powers, 2d, his propensity to practice concealment; and 3d, his notorious cowardice. " http://www.lysanderspooner.org/s/deistsreply.pdf http://www.lysanderspooner.org/works/ Spooner wrongly assumes that there was 'historical' 'jesus', but at least his view of the 'founder' of 'christianity' wasn't exactly flattering. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 02:57:23 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:57:23 +1000 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160612095723.GA6765@x220-a02> > Lastly, one should realize that your first obligation is to yourself, > then to your [chosen] family/friends, and finally none at all to > "society", which is a construct of dubious utility, and which doesn't > exist on its own. It's not a matter of "every man for himself and > devil take the hindmost", it's a matter of "there's only so much one > can do, and the most important things come first". Problem is, "most important things", in almost all humans, fails to include "actions which will in some (even small) way, bring forward some correction or shift to my wayward state, in which I am in some small way a party to". 0. Pick a cause. E.g. - handling the inevitable descent into nazism of every fascist state, which is every purported democracy today. 1. Name it. E.g. "No More Papers Please!" 2. Communicate it. Online, in person. 3. Find those who are passionate about it and will form part of your "core team" in this wayward t3rr0r1st group of extreme constitutionalists. 4. Invent some some slogans. E.g. "Be radical, live our absolute right to give no more than our name to any authority." 5. Perhaps water it down a bit, if you don't have enough takers, E.g. "Be radical, live our absolute right to give no more than our name and address as per section 51 of the Crimes Act 1971 (Australia), to any authority." (Sorry, that section and year are not quite right, but the details are otherwise correct, either download it from austlii.edu.au and read it to find it, or reply and ask, if you can't find it.) 6. Make plans, take actions, build it, do it. 7. Know and teach that for a cause to truly impact beneficially in the world, many individuals must carry it clearly in their words, with certainty in their hearts. A single individual put on a leadership pedestal, a Jacob, a Zenaan, a Juan or yourself, can and will be taken down. EVERY individual must live the cause, the freedom, speak from his own heart and carry the battle cry in a moments notice - only --then-- is the cause truly won, truly owned by many, and earned by many, and therefore able to persist. Every single one of us, as flawed as we are, uncomfortable and unsure, doubtful and embarrassed, every single one of us carries the capacity to communicate in our body and mind, the capacity to be sincere, clear and true in our minds and hearts. The perception of greatness in an individual "out there", in the "glory" of a public success, in the "exceptionalism" of an individual is a fast way to excusing inaction, to clouding the mind and the heart, into denying our equal potential as humans. All are unique and exceptional. Even if you only get through steps 0 to 2 above, that's more than 99% of people can generally say they've done in the past 10 years. Consider renumbering the steps to begin with 1 when talking with non computer programmers. Tech people may be a useful target demographic/ group - freedom of speech, freedom of code, experience in working and communicating with others, these days more "geek cred" than "nerd aversion", so possibly tending toward influential in general, if not only in the business and "silicon valley investor" set. Good luck, and may your actions speak for you. Rock the world in your own little way. Inspire others where possible. Do what we can. Amongst the 100s of causes and slogans, one may take off - and that's all that's needed! Enjoy the ride. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 03:31:00 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:31:00 +1000 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160612103100.GA6983@x220-a02> > Lastly, one should realize that your first obligation is to yourself, > then to your [chosen] family/friends, and finally none at all to > "society", which is a construct of dubious utility, and which doesn't > exist on its own. society is a word which for the average person in conversation is used to describe part of his reality in which he finds himself. Taking one of the positions in the words above: "your first obligation is ... finally none at all to 'society'..." One way to tackle this position is to name it as the prisoner's dilemma: do the prisoners each hold out for the others, and thereby maximise the benefit to everyone, or jump at the first opportunity for individual benefit, maximising the cost/pain to everyone. I say this is a question of conscience. I encourage us all to live according to one's own conscience, one's knowledge of good and evil, and one's perception of right and wrong and how to improve things towards the "good" end of the spectrum (again, according to your own personal awareness of what is good). We in the West are schooled, not so much educated, and our schooling is so effective we do not see how brainwashed we are. "It's a dog eat dog world, every man for himself, society/government are dubious constructs not much related to reality and therefore to be ignored, focus on self and family instead, be competitive, be number 1, win that human rat race and take the podium and then you will have been successful in life." I say this is competitive schooling^Wbrainwashing is driving us away from our humanity, away from our conscience, and truly, away from those things which actually bring happiness in life. So many relatively wealthy or on the way to wealthy individuals here in Australia spend their adult lives striving, so hard, for financial success, to become that millionaire (and seriously, the papers, TV and people talk about how really, even if you want to retire "comfortably", you now need a MULTI million dollar retirement fund. That's right, just to be comfortable AT RETIREMENT AND NOT BEFORE, you need to become a multi millionaire. I say this to people and they nod in agreement - the cost of living comfortably is now so expensive. Seriously, it's now broadly accepted. So, all these people, racing around for decades to becomes multis (multi millionaires), a lifetime, only to discover at retirement that they need to find some people to spend their "comfortable retirement" with. Other folks, like some I know, take a different view, a different approach, considering that it is most productive (from a sanity perspective) to spend a good decade or two discovering people worthy of spending time with, hanging out with, marching a cause with, and -then- pursue a bit of "comfortability" in this world. Then occasionally I find a real extremist who will put a righteous cause and loyalty to friends who share the principles, even above family. Them's worth hanging onto... Please, choose words wisely. As to action, if someone believe's their action is righteous and will benefit others, and we believe such action will benefit at least some and at least even in small ways, then let's support such action, even if we encourage more effective action - with concrete suggestions of how to act more effectively of course (don't need to belabour -that- point around here now right?)... Be a monk IN the world. A rebellious table turning, boat rocking, rock of conscience type of monk, with care and graciousness to all, firm vehemence and determination against bullies, love to family and friends and consideration in our public voice. Who needs more depression? - let's inspire instead! From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 03:54:32 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:54:32 +1000 Subject: How Citizen Diplomacy Broke Through the Iron Curtain Message-ID: <20160612105432.GA7075@x220-a02> With the endless NATO approach to Russia's borders, Poland and Baltic states putting bullseyes on their foreheads with America's supposedly "anti" ballistic missile "shield", endless anti Russian MSM propaganda and known psychopathic criminals in charge of most (or all) of the western ICBM nuclear bomb arsenal from USA to UK, and what looks on the face of it to be pretty serious ongoing escalations as we speak, the following is I say quite apt for the times, a good reminder that the stereotypes (Russian state is repressive, Putin's a fascist, Russians are drunkards and madmen all the way down) fail in the face of meeting actual fellow humans, with their own families, mothers, grandfathers, children, hopes, tragedies and loves. We are all human. ------------- How Citizen Diplomacy Broke Through the Iron Curtain http://www.opednews.com/articles/Lessons-for-Peace-from-Bac-by-David-Swanson-Peace_Peace_Peace-Activism_Peace-Advocacy-Activism-160603-97.html http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lessons-peace-back-ussr/ri14805 One American woman determined to visit the USSR ignored US government warnings and established more contacts and learned more about the country than US officials had in decades David Swanson In the early 1980s almost nobody from the United States traveled to the Soviet Union or vice versa. The Soviets wouldn't let anybody out, and good Americans were disinclined to visit the Evil Empire. But a woman in California named Sharon Tennison took the threat of nuclear war with the seriousness it deserved and still deserves. She got a group of friends together and asked the Russian consulate for permission to visit Russia, make friends, and learn. Russia said fine. The U.S. government, in the form of the FBI and USAID, told them not to go, warned that they would not be permitted to move freely once there, and generally communicated that they, the U.S. government employees, had internalized their own propaganda. Tennison and company went anyway, had a wonderful experience, and spoke at events with slide shows upon their return, thus attracting many more people for the next trip. Now it was Tennison's turn to brief the flabbergasted and ignorant U.S. government staff who had virtually no actual knowledge of Russia beyond what she gave them. This was back in the day when President Ronald "Is this a film or reality?" Reagan said that 20 million dead Americans would be acceptable in a war. Yet the so-called intelligence so-called community didn't know its assets from its elbows. War as a "last resort" was being considered without having considered literally any other resorts. Someone had to step in, and Sharon Tennison decided she'd try. Those first trips took courage, to defy the U.S. government, and to operate in a Soviet Union still monitored by a nasty KGB. But the Americans went with friendship, were generally permitted to go wherever they wanted, and encountered friendship in return. They also encountered knowledge of cultural differences, the influences of history, political and social habits both admirable and lamentable. They became, in fact, a bridge between two worlds, experts on each for the other. They expanded their work as Gorbachev came to power and the USSR opened up. They hired staff and opened offices in both countries. They sponsored and facilitated all variety of exchanges from art schools to Rotary clubs to police officers to environmentalists. They began bringing Russians to the United States as well as the reverse. They spoke all over the United States, even -- in some examples Tennison gives in her book The Power of Impossible Ideas -- converting gung-ho members of the U.S. weapons industry into volunteers and staff (in one case a man lost his job at General Dynamics as penalty for associating with them, but this freed him to more closely associate). Tennison's organization worked on sister cities, citizen diplomacy, alcoholics anonymous, and economic development. The latter would, over the years, become increasingly central and certainly focused on privatization and Americanization in a manner that might well be criticized. But it was not U.S. citizen diplomats who created the oligarchs of the 1990s or any culture of oligarch admiration. In fact, Tennison and her philanthropists made grants to Russians dependent on their making donations to others, working to build a culture of philanthropy. Alcoholics Anonymous can also be criticized, of course, but this was an effort to assist Russians with a real problem, not to threaten them with nuclear annihilation. All of these projects built relationships that have lasted and that have influenced U.S. policy for the better. Through the 1990s, the projects evolved to include food and financial donations, orphanages, aid modeled on the Marshall Plan's Productivity Tours, the creation of urban gardens and sustainable agriculture, and numerous business-training initiatives. Tennison met Vladimir Putin before he rose to power. She also met and advised top officials in the U.S. government. She accepted huge grants from USAID, the agency that had advised her never to begin her work. Of course, USAID has been involved in coups and hostile propaganda around the world, and a closer look at that problematic association might have been helpful in The Power of Impossible Ideas. But the work Tennison describes was all for the better, including taking U.S. Congressional leaders to dine in ordinary Russian homes. (I wonder how many current U.S. Congress members have done that.) I can't possibly recount all the amazing stories in Tennison's book, which lives up to its vague and extravagant title; I strongly recommend you read it yourself. The critical development in the later chapters is the diversion Tennison encountered between reality and U.S. media. She found Putin to be a force for reconciliation, and the U.S. media to be intent on demonization -- at least from the moment that Russia refused to participate in attacking Iraq in 2003. Putin had tried to partner with the United States, challenging the demands of Russian hardliners. He allowed the U.S. to use Russian bases in Central Asia. He overlooked the United States withdrawing from the ABM treaty. He accepted NATO expansion right to Russia's border. He supported, up to a point, the U.S. "war on terrorism." Washington didn't care. "During the 2000s," writes Tennison, "I watched as the reservoir of goodwill from the Gorbachev/Reagan years evaporated." In 2004 the State Department cut off its funding for Tennison's work. In 2006 the Council on Foreign Relations produced a report hostile toward Russia. That same year, Russia gave the United States the 10-story-tall monument that stands in Bayonne, New Jersey, but it was too late to have the U.S. media inform many people of it. In 2007, the U.S. was pushing to get Georgia and Ukraine into NATO. Now, following the Ukrainian coup, the U.S. is seeking "partnerships" with NATO for those nations. The U.S. also announced its plans to put Ronnie's "Star Wars" into Poland and the Czech Republic, later changed to Poland and Romania. Finally, Putin began pushing back, warning against aggression toward Russia. In 2007, Tennison brought a group of 100 Russians to Washington, D.C., to speak to Congress. But the hostility only increased. (By 2016 Pentagon staff would be openly saying ( http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/army-internal-fight-russia-defense-budget-213885 ) the motivation of this hostility is bureaucratic and profit-driven.) In 2008, Tennison and others in her organization ( http://ccisf.org/ ) launched a blog ( http://russiaotherpointsofview.com/ ) to correct bad U.S. media. But with tensions growing ever worse ( http://davidswanson.org/node/5151 ), Tennison has lately returned to where she started and begun taking groups of interested Americans to visit Russian cities and get to know members of the demonized foreign land. These trips are as badly needed as they were in the 1980s, though they may require less courage. In fact, what seems to me to require the most courage, or the greatest delusion, is to not participate in this potentially world-saving project. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 04:10:06 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:10:06 +1000 Subject: a death wish for Planet Earth In-Reply-To: <20160612105432.GA7075@x220-a02> References: <20160612105432.GA7075@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160612111006.GA7157@x220-a02> >From the perspective of the potential to create World War 3, Trump's "America first" slogan is a contraction (if it were carried through in a Trump presidency) of the hegemonic Exceptionalistan principle which Clinton is a great promoter and enthusiastic supporter of (see below for a summary). And here's a sobering current economic anecdote: "Fully half of 25-year old Americans live in their childhood rooms in their parents’ homes." Some hard hitting truths in this article... Cockroaches to Inherit the Earth? http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/09/where-do-matters-stand-paul-craig-roberts/ http://russia-insider.com/en/cockroaches-inherit-earth/ri14920 "If you cannot wake up and escape The Matrix, your doom will bring the doom of the planet." Paul Craig Roberts "Hillary is a person so crazed that she declared the president of Russia to be 'the new Hitler'"” On the eve of World War II the United States was still mired in the Great Depression and found itself facing war on two fronts with Japan and Germany. However bleak the outlook, it was nothing compared to the outlook today. Has anyone in Washington, the presstitute Western media, the EU, or NATO ever considered the consequences of constant military and propaganda provocations against Russia? Is there anyone in any responsible position anywhere in the Western world who has enough sense to ask: “What if the Russians believe us? What if we convince Russia that we are going to attack her?” The same can be asked about China. The recklessness of the White House Fool and the media whores has gone far beyond mere danger. What do the Russians think when they see that the Democratic Party intends to elect Hillary Clinton president of the US? Hillary is a person so crazed that she declared the president of Russia to be “the new Hitler” and organized through her underling, neocon monster Victoria Nuland, the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine. Nuland installed Washington’s puppet government in a former Russian province that until about 20 years ago was part of Russia for centuries. I would bet that this tells even the naive pro-western part of the Russian government and population that the United States intends war with Russia. Ever since Russia stood up to Obama over Syria, the Russians have been experiencing hostile propaganda and military operations on their borders. These provocations are justified by Washington and its NATO vassals as a response to “Russian aggression.” Russian aggression consists of nothing but obviously false assertions that Russia is about to invade the Baltics, Poland, and Romania and recreate the Soviet Empire, the Eastern European part of which, together with the former Russian provinces of Georgia and Ukraine, now belong to the American Empire. The Russians know that the propaganda about “Russian aggression” is a lie. What is the purpose of the lie other than to prepare the Western peoples for war with Russia? There is no other explanation. Even morons such as Obama, Merkel, Hollande, and Cameron should be capable of understanding that it is extremely dangerous to convince a major military power that you are going to attack. To simultaneously also convince China doubles the danger. Clearly, the West is incapable of producing leadership capable of preserving life on earth. What can be done when the entire West demonstrates a death wish for Planet Earth? Until the criminal regimes of Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama, American presidents from John F. Kennedy forward worked to reduce tensions with the Soviets. Kennedy worked with Khrushchev to reduce tensions caused by US missiles in Turkey and Soviet missiles in Cuba. President Nixon negotiated SALT I (the Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty) and the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. President Carter negotiated SALT II, which was never ratified by the US Senate but was observed by the executive branch. President Reagan negotiated with Soviet leader Gorbachev the end of the Cold War. President George H.W. Bush in exchange for Gorbachev’s agreement to the reunification of Germany promised that NATO would not move one inch to the East. All of these achievements were thrown away by the neoconized Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama regimes, each a criminal regime on par with Nazi Germany. Today life on Planet Earth is far less secure than during the darkest days of the Cold War. Whatever threat global warming poses, it is miniscule compared to the threat of nuclear winter. If the evil that is concentrated in Washington and its vassals perpetrates nuclear war, cockroaches will inherit the earth. I have been warning about the growing danger of a nuclear war resulting from the arrogance, hubris, ignorance, and evil personified by Washington. Recently, four knowledgable Russian-Americans spelled out the likely consequences of trying to drive Russia to submission with war threats: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/03/41522/ See also: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/05/28/as-our-past-wars-are-glorified-this-memorial-day-weekend-give-some-thought-to-our-prospects-against-the-russians-and-chinese-in-world-war-iii/ Don’t expect the brainwashed American population to have the moral conscience and fortitude to prevent nuclear war or even the intelligence to prevent their own vaporization. In a recent article in the Wall Street Journal Scott Sagan and Benjamin Valentino report that 59% of the US population support attacking Iran with nuclear weapons in the event that Iran sank one US Navy ship: http://www.wsj.com/articles/would-the-u-s-drop-the-bomb-again-1463682867 Republicans were much more likely than Democrats to approve attacking Iran with nuclear weapons with 81% of Republicans approving nuclear war compared to 47% of Democrats. Yet, the Democrats are behind Hillary who would be the first to use nuclear weapons. After all, a feminized woman has to prove how tough she is, just as Margaret Thatcher was “the Iron Lady.” Before it it too late for Americans and all of humanity, arrogant Americans need to recall that “those who live by the sword, die by the sword.” The economic picture is equally dismal and unpromising. The latest payroll jobs report was even more awful than reported. Hardly any new jobs were created, but what largely escaped reporting is the fact that the economy actually lost 59,000 full-time jobs. Increasingly the US economy consists of part-time jobs that cannot support an independent existence. Thus, more Americans age 19-34 live at home with parents than independently with spouses or partners. Fully half of 25-year old Americans live in their childhood rooms in their parents’ homes. This is the “New Economy” that the filthy lying neoliberal economists promised would be reward for the American work force giving up their manufacturing and professional skill jobs to foreigners. What a monstrous lie the neoliberal economists told so that corporate executives and shareholders could put into their own pockets the living wage of the American work force. These neoliberal economists, and, alas, libertarian “free market” ones, have not been held accountable for their impoverishment of the American work force deeply buried in debt with no future prospects. Those few Americans who have any awareness are beginning to realize that the One Percent and the western governments that serve them are re-establishing feudalism. The brilliant and learned economist, Michael Hudson, has labeled our era the era of neo-feudalism. He is correct. The majority of young Americans come out of university heavily indebted, primed for debtor prison. When half of 25-year olds cannot marry and form households, how can anyone believe that housing sales and prices are rising except as a result of speculative investors banking on rental income from a population that cannot even pay its student loans. The United States is the sickest place on earth. There is no public or political discussion of any important issue or of the multiple crises that confront America or the crises that America brings to the world. The American people are so stupid and unaware that they are capable of electing a criminal and a warmonger like Hillary president of the United States and be proud of it. These “tough” Americans are so frightened of hoax dangers, such as “Muslim terrorists” and “Russian aggression” that they willingly sacrificed their depleted pocketbooks, the Constitution of the United States—an act of treason on the part of the American people who utterly failed their responsibility to protect the Constitution—and their own liberty to a universal police state that has all power over them. It is extraordinary that once-proud, once-great European peoples look for leadership from a country of moronic non-entities who have pissed away the liberty, security, and prosperity that their Founding Fathers gave to them. Fellow Americans, if you care to avoid vaporization and, assuming we do avoid it, live a life other than serfdom, you must wake up and realize that your most deadly enemy is Washington, not the hoax of “Russian aggression,” not the hoax of “Muslim terrorism,” not the hoax of “domestic extremism,” not the hoax of welfare bankrupting America, not the hoax of democracy voting away your wealth, which Wall Street and the corporations have already stolen and stuck in their pockets. If you cannot wake up and escape The Matrix, your doom will bring the doom of the planet. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 06:04:28 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:04:28 +1000 Subject: A disputation of Spooner? Message-ID: <20160612130428.GA7661@x220-a02> Been referred a couple of times now, and finally spent the necessary time to properly absorb Spooner's The Science of Justice. I am indebted to those who have encouraged me to do so. Thanks in particular to the quiet and gentle persistence of Juan. So. Very. Compelling. Who, if anyone, disputes, could dispute, might dispute, or suggests any possible dispute whatsoever, of any of the foundations Lysander states in such simple terms, and if so, which ones (quote of relevant verbiage appreciated)? : http://www.panarchy.org/spooner/law.1882.html Black and white absolutes allowed, nuanced views encouraged, statists, fascists, nihilists, anarchists and all others encouraged, presumptions tolerated, projections gladly received, ad homs and straw men shall be summarily mocked and enjoyed by all. Hear ye! Hear ye! By royal order of the ghostly spirit of Lord Spooner, Let the disputations begin. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 06:22:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:22:58 +1000 Subject: In support of Spooner: dominion, and the Christian Bible as a legal document Message-ID: <20160612132258.GA7714@x220-a02> Lysander Spooner's pamphlet on Natural Justice: "The Science of Justice" http://www.panarchy.org/spooner/law.1882.html Quoting Spooner: "If there be such a natural principle as justice, it is necessarily the highest, and consequently the only and universal, law for all those matters to which it is naturally applicable. And, of consequently, all human legislation is simply and always an assumption of authority and dominion, where no right of authority or dominion exists. It is, therefore, simply and always an intrusion, an absurdity, a usurpation, and a crime." Quoting the King James Bible, Authorised Edition: Genesis: "1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." In Australia, our federal Constitution (the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1901, clause 9), invokes the Blessing of Almighty God, and references the bible, the King James Bible Authorised Edition to be precise. This foundation may be useful to those confronting a purported court. There is likely a similar foundation in America. By my understanding of Spooner, "natural law" and "natural justice" is universal natural principal needing no statute to define it, which would demonstrate a contradiction - if justice, right and wrong, requires a law to define it, then it is no longer a natural / universal principal. Our current predominant "shared common delusions" include courts, and police carrying guns requiring we go to court (or arresting us and taking us there by physical force). So we face the current reality of our society as it is, not as we would like it to be. It is in this context that getting back to the foundations of the founding fathers, and the principles of natural justice and dominion, and making use of those documents held in some regard and referenced, and at the very foundation of our constitution (at least here in Australia) by our founding fathers, namely the King James Bible, may have a utilitarian value in handling the current reality we face ourselves within. It's perhaps a great blessing that Spooner never finished his voluminous treatise on natural justice, since this pamphlet, the limit of his treatise, is so short even a slow reader with attention deficit disorder has hope to focus for long enough, over a few sittings, to get through this short list of paragraphs. I suggest this Lysander Spooner's pamphlet be required reading for all and sundry. Help spread the word - I shall. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 06:29:05 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:29:05 +1000 Subject: Call for translators - panarchy.org Message-ID: <20160612132905.GA7754@x220-a02> A job, a job, a very very very fine job. Those who are able to translate between languages, or tidy up translate.google.com 's translations at least, may be inspired in the coming years to contribute fine tuned translation of a document at panarchy.org - e.g. search 1934 on the front page for an Italian document with no English translation (reading and speaking only English, I selfishly promote translations to English :) For humble objective self satisfaction, anonymous contributions I am sure will be welcomed with gratitude. For a public ack and some mutual admiration backslapping, a note to this list is in order. In fact, a note regarding a new translation by an anonymous contributor would also be greatly appreciated. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 12 06:43:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 23:43:40 +1000 Subject: synchronicity - historical quotes on Natural Justice Message-ID: <20160612134340.GA7877@x220-a02> Just received the below from a totally different channel. It's in the air. 1722 seems to be missing a word, perhaps "possessions"? 1859 omits "or for the restitution of a damage caused by him to another" otherwise we're saying once a crime (e.g. of theft) has occurred, no restitution is permitted in natural law, which I would (hopefully obviously) disagree with. : 300s BC Epicurus Natural Justice is a symbol or expression of usefulness, to prevent one person from harming or being harmed by another. 900s Islamic Theologians Man can rationally know that man has a right to life and property. 1689 John Locke Being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions. 1682 Samuel von Pufendorf Among the absolute duties of anybody to anybody, the first place belongs to this one: let no one injure another. For this is the broadest of all duties, embracing all men as such. 1722 William Wollaston No man can have the right to begin to interrupt the happiness of another yet every man has a right to defend himself and his against violence 1790 Mary Wollstonecraft The birthright of man is such a degree of liberty, civil and religious, as is compatible with the liberty of every other individual 1816 Thomas Jefferson Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits of the law because law is often but the tyrants will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him. 1851 Herbert Spencer Every man is free to do that which he wills, provided he infringes not the equal freedom of any other man. 1859 John Stuart Mill The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over a member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. 1961 Ayn Rand The precondition of a civilized society is the barring of physical force from social relationships 1963 Murray Rothbard No one may threaten or commit violence (aggress) against another mans person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a non-aggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory. L. Neil Smith No one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being, nor to delegate its initiation. Walter Block It shall be legal for anyone to do anything he wants, provided only that he not initiate (or threaten) violence against the person or legitimately owned property of another. ----- End forwarded message ----- From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 09:46:18 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:46:18 -0700 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... (Data Overload Edition) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 16:22:38 -0300 From: juan Rest of your copypasta garbage from ebay deleted. Ok... You want something handcrafted? Let's talk about Orlando. Then tell me I'm a cop, cop. Bringing Home A Thug: The Orlando Night Club Massacre‬ victims were gay perhaps BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT! It’s the end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator Population” For a start, and for your information, the Wounded Knee Massacre of Natives on this continent was the largest Mass Murder in US history. I wonder how THEY ‘gender-identified’? Unfortunately for the FBI, the nightmare in Orlando isn’t turning out to be the perfect recruiting tool to get LGBTs to practice their newfound 'liberation’ joining them in spying on their own citizens or recruiting in an imperial military, but I suspect there WILL be a rush to join in the slaughter of dark-skinned people in faraway places by the completely ignorant . But let me get to the point here. It’s a point I’ve made repeatedly over the years. What happened in Orlando is the end result of a nation that keeps out ECONOMIC IMMIGRANTS but LOVES to bring home their thugs. ARVN soldiers, who later terrorized their own communities with Military-style home-invasion robberies. The people they victimized in San Jose California were too scared to talk to the police who admitted they couldn’t protect them. Iraq & Afghan interpreters who worked with the CIA and various contractors like Caci (G4s, the shooter’s employer /does interpreting-interrogation work too /!) to 'interpret’ the screams of their tortured fellow citizens for the US intelligence community. Sometimes, a LOT of the time, they even end up the victims of stings by the organizations who paid them to spy on their own communities in the US. Many are… Umn… 'less-than-bright’. I feel ZERO sympathy for them except for the fact/those folks are often literally 'morons ’./ Right now, the Defense Language institute would LOVE to have you visit Monterey California if you’re a Pashtun speaker, or speaker of obscure dialects unique to South and Central Asia. Hell they even have BUS SERVICE developed for those folks to commute from other cities in the area like my town! Then there’s Chechens who fought our dirty terror war against Russia in the 90s and their families. The Tsarnaevs immediately come to mind. Former CIA director/Porter Goss on that dirty war you never heard of /, and for the longest time even the president of the US didn’t know of. Colombian & Guamanian mercs who worked for the Pentagon in Iraq and Afghanistan in return for citizenship status. AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! The VICTIMS WERE perhaps ‪Gay‬-identified, but it’s REALLY THE CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST folks… YOU ALLOW the thugs to be protected and nurtured but people with drive ambition and the willingness to work hard are rejected… Sent back to their countries often to be tortured and killed… FOR YOUR WAY OF LIFE and the continuation of it … AND IT IS KILLING YOU NOW. It’s the end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator Population”. You are becoming the victims of your own murderous way of interacting with the rest of the world that you as Americans seem so oblivious to … So oblivious that you’d actually think about electing a warmonger like Bernie Sanders as some sort of alternative. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/145862418629 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5436 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jun 13 03:44:18 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 13:44:18 +0300 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160613104418.GA692@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 01:33:41PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust Isn't distrusting enemies/those who deserve it/ common sense and best practice? > ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, Not trusting others doesn't necessarily mean you don't trust yourself. As for practical anarchism, I consider it utopia (hi Juan ;) ) with the current sheeple. Maybe the most plausible implementation of anarchism is if aliens colonize humans or possibly "teach" them how good anarchism is ;) -- "It's all the same, only the names will change" -- Bon Jovi From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 11:29:52 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:29:52 -0300 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> Message-ID: <575efb7c.8febe90a.3a28f.ffffabed@mx.google.com> On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:46:18 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT > about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! OK. Let me spell it out for you. Yesterday's false flag attack was obviously about gays. The evil muslamic terrorists hate gays - and gays are a minority that has always been deeply admired in the Western, Judeo-Christian, Democratic Nations. That's why an attack against gays is such an outrage. Hm. Wait. Something's off. Gays have been despised in the jew-kristian cesspools for ages, HOWEVER, somehow, right now it's become politically expedient to pretend to care about gays. So, an attack against gays is just the thing you need if you want more 'progressives' to support your bombing, 'civilizing' efforts against non-american sub-humans. > > The VICTIMS WERE perhaps ‪Gay‬-identified, but it’s REALLY THE > CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST > > folks… YOU ALLOW the thugs to be protected and nurtured but people > with drive ambition and the willingness to work hard are rejected… > Sent back to their countries often to be tortured and killed… FOR > YOUR WAY OF LIFE and the continuation of it … AND IT IS KILLING YOU > NOW. It’s the end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator > Population”. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 13:16:19 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 17:16:19 -0300 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: <20160613104418.GA692@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> <20160613104418.GA692@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <575f1473.d7648c0a.59fb4.ffffb1cd@mx.google.com> On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 13:44:18 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 01:33:41PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We > > don't trust > > Isn't distrusting enemies/those who deserve it/ > common sense and best practice? It is... > > > ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, > > Not trusting others doesn't necessarily mean you don't trust yourself. > > As for practical anarchism, I consider it utopia (hi Juan ;) ) Hi Georgi (^-^)/ > with > the current sheeple. The problem boils down to cultural beliefs. So it's a matter of doing some software upgrade, so to speak... > Maybe the most plausible implementation of > anarchism is if aliens colonize humans or possibly "teach" them how > good anarchism is ;) > From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 13 21:07:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:07:31 -0700 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <575efb7c.8febe90a.3a28f.ffffabed@mx.google.com> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> <575efb7c.8febe90a.3a28f.ffffabed@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <575F8303.8070402@riseup.net> On 06/13/2016 11:29 AM, juan wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:46:18 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > >> AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT >> about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! > > OK. Let me spell it out for you. Yesterday's false flag attack > was obviously about gays. > > Yah... It's about LGBT. Turns out the guy was a regular at the club and had a 'gay dating app' on his phone. Either he was a jilted lover with a bone to pick or the Orlando PD should be reviewing their cold cases for a potential 'gay lover serial killer' who snapped and decided to kill a bunch in one burst. Ps The police had a standoff with him before he was dead. Wonder how many clubbers the cops killed. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 13 04:42:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 21:42:33 +1000 Subject: the challenge of becoming an anarchist - why nearly everyone's a statist In-Reply-To: <20160613104418.GA692@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160612033341.GA5679@x220-a02> <20160613104418.GA692@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160613114233.GB19966@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 01:44:18PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 01:33:41PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > 'We' have lost faith in our fellow humans to a high degree. We don't trust > > Isn't distrusting enemies/those who deserve it/ > common sense and best practice? Indeed. I gnashing my teeth here and there over those dang humans, so very few can be trusted to behave rationally, let alone without the negative aspects of the mind and emotion - vindictiveness, anger, spite, envy, greed, lust, lynch-mobbingness etc. > > ourselves and so we don't trust our fellow 'citizens'. We put money, > > Not trusting others doesn't necessarily mean you don't trust yourself. > > As for practical anarchism, I consider it utopia (hi Juan ;) ) with the > current sheeple. An immediate transition, say removal of the state, would probably descend into gangs exacting vigilante justice on each other, causing a lot of damage, collateral damage, to humans and property, before eventually they figure out (if they/ the majority do figure anything out) that sanity requires a basic procedure of "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" and therefore a justice procedure which involves more than just "go bash the shit out of the person your mate says did the wrong thing". > Maybe the most plausible implementation of anarchism is if aliens > colonize humans or possibly "teach" them how good anarchism is ;) An external authority is indeed probably required with the current state of schooled humans, to educate them on internal authority and how best to exercise that, such as to syndicate in an objectively self interested way. Lynch mobbing demonstrates that most humans don't get past their first thought to a second thought. That's just asking a lot... evidently. So practically I believe we are left with attempts to create enclaves of like minded individuals - syndicates of self interested humans, limited in number, acting in mutual self interest, learning how to handle the different natures of one another. I do believe we are stuck with the state for the short to medium term, and I'd hate to see the last 20 years of US hegemonic demonic domination of the planet had Russia completely disintegrated with Yeltsin. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 19:03:58 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 23:03:58 -0300 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <20160614003146.GD19966@x220-a02> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> <20160614003146.GD19966@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jun 13, 2016 9:39 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:46:18AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > From: juan > ... > > This (including the deleted bits) is one of the clearest and well laid out posts I've seen in a long time. Thank you Juan, and thank you Rayzer for posting. [OT] Err... Zen, I know that Rayzer and Juan will kick me after I say it in public, but all the times when Rayzer and Juan begins this kind of discussion, I swear that I remember this old song lyrics: http://youtu.be/CtPeknt0mBA I never know if it is love or hate... :-/ On Jun 13, 2016 9:39 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:46:18AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > From: juan > ... > > AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT > about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! > > > > The VICTIMS WERE perhaps ‪Gay‬-identified, but it’s REALLY THE CHICKENS > COMING HOME TO ROOST > > < > http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2FThe+Politics+of+a+Perpetrator+Population+&t=NmM3NzJkNWY1OTg2ZDkxNjQzNDAyZjM0YjRjZDI1MTZlZjk1YTVmNyxUcHh6UG5TaQ%3D%3D > > > > folks… YOU ALLOW the thugs to be protected and nurtured but people with > > drive ambition and the willingness to work hard are rejected… Sent back > > to their countries often to be tortured and killed… FOR YOUR WAY OF > > LIFE and the continuation of it … AND IT IS KILLING YOU NOW. It’s the > > end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator Population”. > > > > You are becoming the victims of your own murderous way of > > interacting with the rest of the world that you as Americans seem so > > oblivious to … So oblivious that you’d actually think about electing a > > warmonger like Bernie Sanders as some sort of alternative. > > > > http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/145862418629 > > This (including the deleted bits) is one of the clearest and well laid out > posts I've seen in a long time. Thank you Juan, and thank you Rayzer for > posting. > > And for me personally, not being American and seeing Bernie Sanders be > largely ignored by the MSM despite much larger rally turnouts than > Clinton, I assumed he was not a war monger/ MIC man, so this hint that > he's a war monger is important. Leads to lots of interesting "who's > conspiring in what ways" thoughts... > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 23:52:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 02:52:42 -0400 Subject: Rebel Cities Rejecting Surveillance Message-ID: https://decentralize.today/rebel-cities-towards-a-global-network-of-neighbourhoods-and-cities-rejecting-surveillance-6a92e68243a8 Renata Avila Guatemalan Human Rights Lawyer, @Couragefound Advisory Board and @CreativeCommons Board The city of the future I see in promotional videos for systems of mass surveillance and mass control seems to be subsumed in a permanent state of normalcy. It is a city with no traffic, no protests, no visible disasters, no spontaneous mobilisations, no surprises. Spontaneous events, as if they were system errors, are suppressed before they occur. Movement analysis and decision-making happens in a control room that looks like a spaceship, where technicians work in real-time, watching all of us, without us being able to see them. There is no citizen access. To the contrary, these are closed systems, difficult to monitor. Where actions are regulated by a system, designed elsewhere, that pretends it is not political. But technology is political. Cities where everything is controlled by invisible technology, almost imperceptible in daily life. Those surveillance cameras now visible on street corners are replaced by systems of constant monitoring integrated in the landscape. Cities of sensors collecting our data all day long, where each movement is registered and stored, where decisions are automated and dehumanised. Monetised to optimise consumption, predict behavior. Control people. And where the benefits of not knowing who decides and why, stand to be gained by the same conglomerate who bets on this vision. A few companies developing software, hardware and capacities in countries that can be counted on one hand. A market of US$8 billion, which is expected to grow tenfold by the year 2020. Fed with meager public funds from countries like ours [in Latin America]. Although discourses keep feeding the imaginary, descriptions of cameras detecting pickpockets, this is something radically different. Matrices that combine lots of data in real-time. This vision for the city of the future, promoted by a small group of technology conglomerates, is one where quality of life is directly proportional to the predictability and homogeneity of its inhabitants, clashing with the struggle for diversity and diverse behaviors. To achieve this vision, much more is sacrificed than privacy. We pawn off our security to those in the sealed-off control room. It is to sacrifice the purest form of democracy we have, our right to protest freely and anonymously in the town square. Local surveillance systems are rapidly expanding across Latin America. Much earlier and faster than the regulatory frameworks for adequate protection of privacy and personal data. Without democratic mechanisms, community or neighbourhood consultations to determine their necessity or appropriateness. They are sophisticated and ephemeral systems that require updates and costly maintenance and show vague results. In Tegucigalpa, Honduras, for example, the city could not maintain the surveillance system due to a lack of budget to maintain the cameras. The contracts that are signed tie the hands of more than one public institution, borrowing from future municipal budgets, with a coordinated marketing and data machinery that does not offer solid evidence to prove effectiveness. Public authorities assure us that cameras, scenario modeling and mass surveillance will eliminate the problem of insecurity, advancing these over other public policies meant to attack extreme poverty and inequality of access to basic services, as well as the recovery of public space. The studies that vouch for the effectiveness of surveillance as a crime reduction measure are incomplete; they do not take local internal and external factors into account, and cannot be applied to different contexts. Cities of the future, promoted by the conglomerates benefitting from them, allow for events to be preempted, for preventive decisions to be made to control the masses, block protests, predict civic mobilisations for more and better rights. To discriminate by algorithm. To exclude by patterns of behavior. Do we want a future without surveillance? A future where diversity, and not uniformity of behavior, is the rule? Let’s start by eradicating (the now invisible) vigilante culture of the neighbourhood and the city. Let’s start by participating in all public spaces and if they do not exist, let’s open them. Before the final bastion of democracy becomes a memory erased by someone behind a screen. Among the steps we can all take, here are three I will elaborate on: Prevent the arrival of surveillance If mass surveillance is still at the exploratory stage as a security measure, it is important to organise neighbours against it, asking if municipal goods or services will be sacrificed in favor of surveillance, and question the impact that prioritising it will have on community and neighbourhood life. Moreover, it is important to ask about the long-term sustainability and viability of such projects, the conditions by which the municipality is acquiring them and the time frames. It is important to quantify what is being sacrificed to invest in surveillance. For example, indicating how many programs for children and youth at risk could be started for the same price, offering more complete and long-term solutions. Once a mass surveillance system is installed, privacy and intimacy are only for those who can afford them. Question mass surveillance already installed and the costs of maintenance and updates Decisions to improve security and quality of life of neighbourhoods and cities should be participatory. The benefits of installing mass and continuous surveillance mechanisms in public space should be weighed against analog, social alternatives. Technological surveillance is expensive because for every camera installed there are not just related fixed costs for maintenance and updates, there is also a sacrifice in terms of public spending on social programs. Moreover, almost all the technology providers are not domestic companies. Mostly closed technology, running on proprietary software, makes effective citizen oversight impossible. Contracts with camera providers and services are generally in the millions of dollars, and are binding long beyond the term of the signing government, without considering the realities of a municipality. Connect with other rebel cities and collectives To free ourselves from surveillance and other repressive and authoritarian forms of power that this opens up, we must immediately activate the mechanisms of law that allow us to oversee the functions of mass surveillance systems in our cities. And do this collectively, in coordination with other cities affected by the problem. Just as there are Smart Cities networks we should form our own Rebel Cities networks where surveillance is rejected and participatory democracy is affirmed, a democracy framed in respect for human rights and diversity, focused on collective solutions, which is the true path to safer cities. Not cameras. We can then simultaneously activate collaborative mechanisms to prevent their expansion. Make freedom of information requests for public information detailing their costs. Demand studies on their results. Take serious legal action in face of possible illegal uses of surveillance for discriminatory policies. Demand from authorities protection of personal data where it exists, and where it does not, demand that human rights authorities undertake feasibility studies, weighing the impact on individual guarantees before installing systems. Democracy begins and ends there. In its exercise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvGuw2zZ3qc http://www.insightcrime.org/news-briefs/fiscal-crisis-honduras-security-cameras http://www.pic-six.com/?module=catalog&item_id=3&c_id=12 From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 00:11:27 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 03:11:27 -0400 Subject: Club Evidence Message-ID: On 6/14/16, Rayzer wrote: > Ps The police had a standoff with him before he was dead. Wonder how > many clubbers the cops killed. Rest assured any evidence the club owner had of that on camera... has been top secreted into the bitbucket. For some reason I see market for write-once time expiring storage into anonymous overlay networks... From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 13 17:31:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:31:46 +1000 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160614003146.GD19966@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:46:18AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > From: juan ... > AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! > > The VICTIMS WERE perhaps ‪Gay‬-identified, but it’s REALLY THE CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST > > folks… YOU ALLOW the thugs to be protected and nurtured but people with > drive ambition and the willingness to work hard are rejected… Sent back > to their countries often to be tortured and killed… FOR YOUR WAY OF > LIFE and the continuation of it … AND IT IS KILLING YOU NOW. It’s the > end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator Population”. > > You are becoming the victims of your own murderous way of > interacting with the rest of the world that you as Americans seem so > oblivious to … So oblivious that you’d actually think about electing a > warmonger like Bernie Sanders as some sort of alternative. > > http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/145862418629 This (including the deleted bits) is one of the clearest and well laid out posts I've seen in a long time. Thank you Juan, and thank you Rayzer for posting. And for me personally, not being American and seeing Bernie Sanders be largely ignored by the MSM despite much larger rally turnouts than Clinton, I assumed he was not a war monger/ MIC man, so this hint that he's a war monger is important. Leads to lots of interesting "who's conspiring in what ways" thoughts... From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 13 18:23:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:23:40 +1000 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160614012340.GA29929@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:46:18AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... (Data Overload Edition) > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 16:22:38 -0300 > From: juan > > AM I making my point for you? Stop making this about LGBTs. It’s NOT about ‪‎LGBT‬-s! > > The VICTIMS WERE perhaps ‪Gay‬-identified, but it’s REALLY THE CHICKENS COMING HOME TO ROOST > > folks… YOU ALLOW the thugs to be protected and nurtured but people with > drive ambition and the willingness to work hard are rejected… Sent back > to their countries often to be tortured and killed… FOR YOUR WAY OF > LIFE and the continuation of it … AND IT IS KILLING YOU NOW. It’s the > end result of “The Politics of a Perpetrator Population”. Just in: Why Westerners Are Never Told Why They’re Attacked http://theduran.com/westerners-never-told-theyre-attacked/ From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 13 20:39:02 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:39:02 +1000 Subject: Fwd from the fedz: Re: As I was saying, Juan ... In-Reply-To: References: <575c64e4.412bc80a.4a51.ffff8dbc@mx.google.com> <575EE35A.5020202@riseup.net> <20160614003146.GD19966@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160614033902.GD29929@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 11:03:58PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jun 13, 2016 9:39 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 09:46:18AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > > From: juan > > ... > > > > This (including the deleted bits) is one of the clearest and well laid > out posts I've seen in a long time. Thank you Juan, and thank you Rayzer > for posting. > > [OT] Err... Zen, I know that Rayzer and Juan will kick me after I say it > in public, but all the times when Rayzer and Juan begins this kind of > discussion, I swear that I remember this old song lyrics: > > http://youtu.be/CtPeknt0mBA > > I never know if it is love or hate... :-/ :D Yeah! Gettin' jiggy wid it! Round these parts, it's love, all love. A scathing ad hom, an argument destroyed - may look like antagonism, but don't be deceived dear CPers. Behind the powerful rebukes, the unrelenting personal criticism, the "ARE YOU FIRETRUCKING KIDDING ME?"s, lies a deep appreciation for one another. From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 13 21:12:37 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 14:12:37 +1000 Subject: A clever psyop - blame potential leaks on Russia Message-ID: <20160614041236.GF29929@x220-a02> OK, OK, I admit it's not -that- clever. And it's not exactly that ain't not never seen such tactics before... Alright alright, I guess it's even par for the course for the West and its MSM. Well here's a position I can be bold and not retract from: it seemed quite clever when I first read it. There, colour me naive! There are many adjectives appropriate to what we are seeing these days - barrell scraping, pathetic, limp, reactive, bullying, lacking any depth, lacking any imagination or creativity, farcical, impotent. That's the West... except not yet militarily impotent unfortunately. Russia About to Release Clinton's Emails? "...it was possible that the release would, if made, be through a third party, such as Wikileaks." http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Russia-Is-Reportedly-Set-To-Release-Intercepted-Messages-From-Clintons-Private.html http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-about-release-clinton-emails/ri14941 Yep, got it, there's some awareness that it's most likely only a matter of time before some bloody punk (or Trump insider) releases more of those damning Hillary emails, and we are to blame Russia. Got it. Putin in fact - since it would of course be his personal vindictive intention against Hillary. No doubt about it, I now know what to think. God I love oilprice dot com! From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 08:36:57 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: How Syrian Kurds dropped Marx and adopted communalism In-Reply-To: <20160615082256.GB11126@x220-a02> References: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> <575CDC0E.2050304@riseup.net> <20160615082256.GB11126@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57617619.7020606@riseup.net> On 06/15/2016 01:22 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 08:50:38PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> The Kurds are Exceptional... >> >> The US keeps screwing them over and over and over again and they seem to >> like it. > I think they are exceptionally pragmatic. So US offers some guns to fight > some undesirable (to US) rebels over yonder, who the Kurds also happen to > dislike, so they take the guns, get the job done, then the US drops them > publicly or reneges on further support - of course they are going to > continue to fight to protect their lands, homes and people. It's called collusion with an invading army to allow the invaders to partition the nation of Syria seemingly legitimately (by invitation of the colluders right?) Hey it works so well for Bandera, the Stern Gang, the Basques, and the IRA when they attempted the same with the Nazis... Vicious freaks. > > Then the US comes along again, offers a bit more since there is again some > political alignment, so of course there is some cooperation. Seems > entirely rational to me... > > >> Did you know a hundred years ago they were animists who believed in magic? >> >> If you drew a circle around one they couldn't escape. >> >> George Gurdjieff recounted one such incident in his autobiography >> Meetings with Remarkable Men. > Wow. That's really amazing. The 'power' of magic eh.. > > >> On 06/11/2016 08:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> By Retaking Raqqa Syrian Army May Upset 'Federalization' Plan >>> http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160610/1041140173/syria-raqqa-kurds-federalization.html > > Here's another one which may interest those on this topic: > > How Syrian Kurds dropped Marx and adopted communalism > http://thesaker.is/how-syrian-kurds-dropped-marx-and-adopted-communalism/ > > by Claudio Gallo > > Debbie is not only the daughter of Murray Bookchin ( > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin ), the theorist of > Communalism. She is a journalist and writer: in 2004, she wrote, together > with Jim Schumacher, “The Virus and the Vaccine: Contaminated Vaccine, > Deadly Cancers, and Government Neglect” about the polio vaccine scandal. > She served as presidential candidate Bernie Sanders’ press secretary from > 1991-1994. But, yes, she is also her father’s daughter, spreading the > legacy of the American philosopher born from Jewish Russian parents > emigrated to the United States. > > >From Abdullah Öcalan to the Kurds who were recently fighting ISIS in > Kobane, all threw Marxism over their shoulders to embrace your father’s > philosophy: Communalism. What is Communalism? > > Communalism is the idea that democracy works best when citizens make > decisions together on the local level, in assemblies. They meet > face-to-face with their neighbors and discuss issues of importance to > their communities. They send recallable delegates to councils to make > regional decisions; but power always resides at the local level, rather > than with the nation-state. My father believed that these local assemblies > would transform, and be transformed by, an increasingly enlightened > citizenry. People could reclaim and redefine politics as something we do > for ourselves rather than just voting for someone and hoping for the best. > Communalism also envisions what my father called a “moral economy” in > which people make collective decisions about how to use natural resources > for economic production, with the ecological impact in mind. > > In this vision there is no money, no market: how is it possible? > > Today we take capitalism for granted. But God didn’t ordain capitalism. In > much of human history societies functioned without it. As my father first > pointed out in the early 1960s, capitalism is on a collision course with > nature that threatens our survival as a species. Capitalism’s “grow or > die” ethos demands the ceaseless exploitation of natural resources. The > rapacious growth and individualism that it has fostered has led to global > warming, that is on the verge of making our planet uninhabitable for our > grandchildren. Is capitalism so sacred that we are willing to destroy the > planet for future generations? There are many examples in history of > people working cooperatively to make decisions for the benefit of a > community without using money – from primitive societies to large Israeli > kibbutzim. Communalism assumes that in a free society, people with > different skills, interests, and desires, will contribute their labor to > the well being of society. And given the advanced technology of the modern > age, it means that we would all have to work less and have more leisure > time than we do today. > > What do you think is so remarkable about Rojava (the Kurdish area of > Syria)? > > The Kurds have created a society that fully empowers women and people of > every ethnic and religious plurality to work together in charting the > future of their communities. Their economic planning is ecologically > sensitive and they are practicing the most democratic form of government > there is on the planet, all under conditions of war. It is truly > inspiring. > > How did Communalism make its way to the Kurdish land? > > When Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan was sentenced to life imprisonment, he > was brought many books by his lawyers, including some of books by my > father like The Ecology of Freedom and From Urbanization to Cities, which > had been translated into Turkish. Öcalan had become increasingly > disillusioned with a Marxist-Leninist approach that had led to three > decades of warfare with the Turkish state; he believed that by employing > my father’s ideas Kurds could achieve self-rule and true democracy even > while remaining within the borders of Turkey. But while Öcalan’s concept > of Democratic Confederalism incorporates my father’s thinking, Öcalan, has > contributed many original ideas, for example, particularly emphasizing the > role of women. > > Which is the strongest criticism that you father had against Marx? > Murray_Bookchin > > Murray Bookchin > > My father had enormous respect for Marx, but he felt that modern day > Marxists were living in the past and that we had to go beyond “class > analysis,” and the tactics employed by revolutionaries in the 1930s, and > examine why workers had not, in fact, made a revolution. He rejected the > idea of workers or the proletariat as the “hegemonic class,” and argued > that social change today will only come about if we appeal to people as > citizens of their communities who share a common desire not just for > income equality but for clean air and water, safe food, and an end to all > forms of hierarchy and oppression, be it of race, ethnicity, gender, etc. > He also saw that socialism hadn’t led to freedom in the Eastern European > countries and felt that power had to be decentralized and located at the > municipal level, not in a centralized party apparatus. > > Despite the ideal of Communalism, the Syrian Kurds were accused by Amnesty > International in 2015 of destroying Arab households: you wrote an article > in which you questioned those charges. > > I think that as exciting as it is to see the remarkable social project > unfolding in Rojava, under conditions of war mistakes will be made; they > must be acknowledged and corrected. But there were a number of questions > raised about the evidence they cited, including the veracity of those they > interviewed and the failure to corroborate some anecdotes. Many people > felt it lessened the credibility of that report. > > Communalist Kurds and Washington together against the IS: a strange > coalition, isn’t it? > > It should be a natural coalition because the USA and EU promote themselves > as champions of democracy. However, while the West recognizes that the > Kurds are their best ally in fighting Isis, the USA and EU are also > fearful that Turkey will open its doors and allow migrants to enter > Europe. So they bowed to Turkey and have excluded Rojava representatives > from the Geneva talks about the future of Syria. They have turned a blind > eye to the ways Turkey assists ISIS and to the Turkish military > bombardment of the Kurdish towns of the southeast — in which the military > has killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including children, under the > pretense of searching for PKK terrorists. If they really believe the > democratic values they claim, the US and EU should invite Rojava > representatives to the Geneva talks and encourage the expansion of the > Rojava model throughout Syria so that a peaceful, democratic solution can > be reached which will allow people to stay in their homes instead of > having to flee. > > The idea of an autonomous Kurdish region has to come to terms with Turkish > hostility: there will be another war in the near future? > > I am a journalist, not a Middle East analyst, so it’s hard for me to > predict if there will be an all-out war. My personal feeling is that > people are very justified in worrying that President Erdogan is heading > down the path of dictatorship. An authoritarian regime will only spark > more unrest and instability, which is bad for the people in the region and > harms our efforts to defeat ISIS. It is my deepest hope that Western > leaders will use the substantial leverage they have to demand an end to > Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s violence against the Kurdish people and insist on a > return to peace negotiations. It is clear that the “Kurdish Question” > cannot be solved militarily and that the sooner Erdogan resumes > negotiations the better it will be for all of Turkish society and the rest > of the world. > > (Original interview > http://www.lastampa.it/2016/04/22/cultura/cos-i-curdi-siriani-hanno-abbandonato-marx-per-mio-padre-WOVS5lxc8XH7Iyt75hx9DN/pagina.html > appeared in Italian in Turin-based newspaper “La Stampa”) > > > --- > For those still reading, some lighter viewing: > The US army against the army of Russia (Russian humor) > http://thesaker.is/the-us-army-against-the-army-of-russia-russian-humor/ > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 15 01:22:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 18:22:56 +1000 Subject: How Syrian Kurds dropped Marx and adopted communalism In-Reply-To: <575CDC0E.2050304@riseup.net> References: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> <575CDC0E.2050304@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160615082256.GB11126@x220-a02> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 08:50:38PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > The Kurds are Exceptional... > > The US keeps screwing them over and over and over again and they seem to > like it. I think they are exceptionally pragmatic. So US offers some guns to fight some undesirable (to US) rebels over yonder, who the Kurds also happen to dislike, so they take the guns, get the job done, then the US drops them publicly or reneges on further support - of course they are going to continue to fight to protect their lands, homes and people. Then the US comes along again, offers a bit more since there is again some political alignment, so of course there is some cooperation. Seems entirely rational to me... > Did you know a hundred years ago they were animists who believed in magic? > > If you drew a circle around one they couldn't escape. > > George Gurdjieff recounted one such incident in his autobiography > Meetings with Remarkable Men. Wow. That's really amazing. The 'power' of magic eh.. > On 06/11/2016 08:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > By Retaking Raqqa Syrian Army May Upset 'Federalization' Plan > > http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160610/1041140173/syria-raqqa-kurds-federalization.html Here's another one which may interest those on this topic: How Syrian Kurds dropped Marx and adopted communalism http://thesaker.is/how-syrian-kurds-dropped-marx-and-adopted-communalism/ by Claudio Gallo Debbie is not only the daughter of Murray Bookchin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin ), the theorist of Communalism. She is a journalist and writer: in 2004, she wrote, together with Jim Schumacher, “The Virus and the Vaccine: Contaminated Vaccine, Deadly Cancers, and Government Neglect” about the polio vaccine scandal. She served as presidential candidate Bernie Sanders’ press secretary from 1991-1994. But, yes, she is also her father’s daughter, spreading the legacy of the American philosopher born from Jewish Russian parents emigrated to the United States. >From Abdullah Öcalan to the Kurds who were recently fighting ISIS in Kobane, all threw Marxism over their shoulders to embrace your father’s philosophy: Communalism. What is Communalism? Communalism is the idea that democracy works best when citizens make decisions together on the local level, in assemblies. They meet face-to-face with their neighbors and discuss issues of importance to their communities. They send recallable delegates to councils to make regional decisions; but power always resides at the local level, rather than with the nation-state. My father believed that these local assemblies would transform, and be transformed by, an increasingly enlightened citizenry. People could reclaim and redefine politics as something we do for ourselves rather than just voting for someone and hoping for the best. Communalism also envisions what my father called a “moral economy” in which people make collective decisions about how to use natural resources for economic production, with the ecological impact in mind. In this vision there is no money, no market: how is it possible? Today we take capitalism for granted. But God didn’t ordain capitalism. In much of human history societies functioned without it. As my father first pointed out in the early 1960s, capitalism is on a collision course with nature that threatens our survival as a species. Capitalism’s “grow or die” ethos demands the ceaseless exploitation of natural resources. The rapacious growth and individualism that it has fostered has led to global warming, that is on the verge of making our planet uninhabitable for our grandchildren. Is capitalism so sacred that we are willing to destroy the planet for future generations? There are many examples in history of people working cooperatively to make decisions for the benefit of a community without using money – from primitive societies to large Israeli kibbutzim. Communalism assumes that in a free society, people with different skills, interests, and desires, will contribute their labor to the well being of society. And given the advanced technology of the modern age, it means that we would all have to work less and have more leisure time than we do today. What do you think is so remarkable about Rojava (the Kurdish area of Syria)? The Kurds have created a society that fully empowers women and people of every ethnic and religious plurality to work together in charting the future of their communities. Their economic planning is ecologically sensitive and they are practicing the most democratic form of government there is on the planet, all under conditions of war. It is truly inspiring. How did Communalism make its way to the Kurdish land? When Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan was sentenced to life imprisonment, he was brought many books by his lawyers, including some of books by my father like The Ecology of Freedom and From Urbanization to Cities, which had been translated into Turkish. Öcalan had become increasingly disillusioned with a Marxist-Leninist approach that had led to three decades of warfare with the Turkish state; he believed that by employing my father’s ideas Kurds could achieve self-rule and true democracy even while remaining within the borders of Turkey. But while Öcalan’s concept of Democratic Confederalism incorporates my father’s thinking, Öcalan, has contributed many original ideas, for example, particularly emphasizing the role of women. Which is the strongest criticism that you father had against Marx? Murray_Bookchin Murray Bookchin My father had enormous respect for Marx, but he felt that modern day Marxists were living in the past and that we had to go beyond “class analysis,” and the tactics employed by revolutionaries in the 1930s, and examine why workers had not, in fact, made a revolution. He rejected the idea of workers or the proletariat as the “hegemonic class,” and argued that social change today will only come about if we appeal to people as citizens of their communities who share a common desire not just for income equality but for clean air and water, safe food, and an end to all forms of hierarchy and oppression, be it of race, ethnicity, gender, etc. He also saw that socialism hadn’t led to freedom in the Eastern European countries and felt that power had to be decentralized and located at the municipal level, not in a centralized party apparatus. Despite the ideal of Communalism, the Syrian Kurds were accused by Amnesty International in 2015 of destroying Arab households: you wrote an article in which you questioned those charges. I think that as exciting as it is to see the remarkable social project unfolding in Rojava, under conditions of war mistakes will be made; they must be acknowledged and corrected. But there were a number of questions raised about the evidence they cited, including the veracity of those they interviewed and the failure to corroborate some anecdotes. Many people felt it lessened the credibility of that report. Communalist Kurds and Washington together against the IS: a strange coalition, isn’t it? It should be a natural coalition because the USA and EU promote themselves as champions of democracy. However, while the West recognizes that the Kurds are their best ally in fighting Isis, the USA and EU are also fearful that Turkey will open its doors and allow migrants to enter Europe. So they bowed to Turkey and have excluded Rojava representatives from the Geneva talks about the future of Syria. They have turned a blind eye to the ways Turkey assists ISIS and to the Turkish military bombardment of the Kurdish towns of the southeast — in which the military has killed hundreds of innocent civilians, including children, under the pretense of searching for PKK terrorists. If they really believe the democratic values they claim, the US and EU should invite Rojava representatives to the Geneva talks and encourage the expansion of the Rojava model throughout Syria so that a peaceful, democratic solution can be reached which will allow people to stay in their homes instead of having to flee. The idea of an autonomous Kurdish region has to come to terms with Turkish hostility: there will be another war in the near future? I am a journalist, not a Middle East analyst, so it’s hard for me to predict if there will be an all-out war. My personal feeling is that people are very justified in worrying that President Erdogan is heading down the path of dictatorship. An authoritarian regime will only spark more unrest and instability, which is bad for the people in the region and harms our efforts to defeat ISIS. It is my deepest hope that Western leaders will use the substantial leverage they have to demand an end to Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s violence against the Kurdish people and insist on a return to peace negotiations. It is clear that the “Kurdish Question” cannot be solved militarily and that the sooner Erdogan resumes negotiations the better it will be for all of Turkish society and the rest of the world. (Original interview http://www.lastampa.it/2016/04/22/cultura/cos-i-curdi-siriani-hanno-abbandonato-marx-per-mio-padre-WOVS5lxc8XH7Iyt75hx9DN/pagina.html appeared in Italian in Turin-based newspaper “La Stampa”) --- For those still reading, some lighter viewing: The US army against the army of Russia (Russian humor) http://thesaker.is/the-us-army-against-the-army-of-russia-russian-humor/ From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 18:43:59 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 19:43:59 -0600 Subject: Hillary Pushes Surveillance and Watchlists Etc, Hates Crypto Guns and Actual Freedom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5762045F.2000107@riseup.net> On 06/15/2016 07:23 PM, grarpamp wrote: > http://bitcoinist.net/clinton-recommends-expanding-state-surveillance/ > http://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481853366/in-wake-of-orlando-shooting-clinton-suggests-broader-terror-watch-lists > > Hillary Clinton has come out in support of extending the surveillance state. > Her Proposals include a dedicated task force applied to preventing > “self-radicalization,” more “integrated intelligence use” among the > different levels of law enforcement, working with silicon valley to > “prevent online radicalization” and broadening the scope of federal > watch lists, gun control related databases, and surveillance. I wonder what she thinks of CIA efforts in Ukraine ;) From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 19:51:35 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 19:51:35 -0700 Subject: #DoxDump: Guccifer2.0 dumps DNC #DonaldTrump dirty dox on Wikileaks Message-ID: <57621437.3010208@riseup.net> "The main part of the papers, thousands of files and mails, I gave to Wikileaks. They will publish them soon." Worldwide known cyber security company CrowdStrike announced that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) servers had been hacked by “sophisticated” hacker groups. I’m very pleased the company appreciated my skills so highly))) But in fact, it was easy, very easy. Guccifer may have been the first one who penetrated Hillary Clinton’s and other Democrats’ mail servers. But he certainly wasn’t the last. No wonder any other hacker could easily get access to the DNC’s servers. Shame on CrowdStrike: Do you think I’ve been in the DNC’s networks for almost a year and saved only 2 documents? Do you really believe it? Here are just a few docs from many thousands I extracted when hacking into DNC’s network. They mentioned a leaked database on Donald Trump. Did they mean this one? Direct to 6.8mb sampling in .doc format: https://guccifer2.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/1.doc Site with more: https://guccifer2.wordpress.com/2016/06/15/dnc/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1837 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 18:23:06 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:23:06 -0400 Subject: Hillary Pushes Surveillance and Watchlists Etc, Hates Crypto Guns and Actual Freedom Message-ID: http://bitcoinist.net/clinton-recommends-expanding-state-surveillance/ http://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481853366/in-wake-of-orlando-shooting-clinton-suggests-broader-terror-watch-lists Hillary Clinton has come out in support of extending the surveillance state. Her Proposals include a dedicated task force applied to preventing “self-radicalization,” more “integrated intelligence use” among the different levels of law enforcement, working with silicon valley to “prevent online radicalization” and broadening the scope of federal watch lists, gun control related databases, and surveillance. From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 21:27:33 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:27:33 -0700 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57622AB5.1030001@riseup.net> On 06/15/2016 09:02 PM, Blake Hadley wrote: > If they had disclosed the locations, I'm sure they'd all end up being vandalized. > Shot at, stolen, spray painted over... > >> On Jun 15, 2016, at 10:25 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> >> The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has successfully convinced a >> federal judge to block the disclosure of where the bureau has attached >> surveillance cams on Seattle utility poles. > EarthFirst! was running an annual surveillance cam smashing contest "Because Security Cameras Won’t Destroy Themselves" http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/44075560310 Also see: How Can I Destroy Surveillance Cameras? http://earthfirstjournal.org/newswire/2014/05/31/how-can-i-destroy-surveillance-cameras/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1618 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 19:25:48 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 22:25:48 -0400 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/4o8q8s/fbi_says_utility_pole_surveillance_cam_locations/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/fbi-says-utility-pole-surveillance-cam-locations-must-be-kept-secret/ The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has successfully convinced a federal judge to block the disclosure of where the bureau has attached surveillance cams on Seattle utility poles. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/fbi-can-search-400-million-face-recognition-photos Today the federal Government Accountability Office (GAO) finally published its exhaustive report on the FBI’s face recognition capabilities. The takeaway: FBI has access to hundreds of millions more photos than we ever thought. And the Bureau has been hiding this fact from the public—in flagrant violation of federal law and agency policy—for years. https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/industry-dominated-group-writes-drone-privacy-best-practices-dont-deserve-name An industry-dominated “multistakeholder process” convened by the Commerce Department recently produced a set of voluntary privacy “best practices” for commercial drones that are so riddled with exceptions and vague language that companies could engage in all sorts of practices that would violate the public's privacy expectations, while still claiming to comply with these guidelines. From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jun 15 22:38:59 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:38:59 -0600 Subject: Only nine of the 29 Windows VPN clients that I tested didn't leak Message-ID: <57623B73.5010402@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 https://vpntesting.info/ I tested 29 Windows VPN clients for DNS, IPv4 and IPv6 Leaks. Six (AirVPN, FrootVPN, IVPN, Mullvad, Perfect Privacy and SlickVPN) performed perfectly. Three others (CyberGhost, oVPN.to and SecureVPN.to) hit VPN-specified nameservers directly while reconnecting after uplink interruption. But that's not a huge issue, in that they didn't hit other nameservers. The other 20 Windows VPN clients failed in various ways. Over half leaked IPv6 packets whenever the machine was connected to the Internet. After uplink interruption, some failed to reconnect automatically, and some leaked IPv4 packets. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXYjtvAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+DrQH/2KZYuuj8Gy9uW0txWL/JInP s2VxNZGV7q3glqW25tgjGDEXSCV7wS6z7YGBgoORYgv9VgsG27ISdVvmSKTGeKuN zvDghFv5uHjGBMCLqOeb06sAVqBb6neldnwqNOOIgyK0pRRdET0/j1lbw8LkxyGD pr+Ne1ura3yywAl4OwjOGEENhmFGqboF9m8b99/Jeznr+fMHvi5oJwrCMurIJ41n ojpOtYgNZU4boEh8osUZV+Q9+WGVV2xrZSL/FQUbjyibM6gjXI+cfXJnYOg0T7QV wE13FOAaFE7nJypEC0HiEDEZPmJ0jH9JcMCDgn0cMQmdcWFbG0eYjSaQ2M6kS5A= =2eVp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From moosehadley at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 21:02:08 2016 From: moosehadley at gmail.com (Blake Hadley) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:02:08 -0400 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If they had disclosed the locations, I'm sure they'd all end up being vandalized. Shot at, stolen, spray painted over... > On Jun 15, 2016, at 10:25 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has successfully convinced a > federal judge to block the disclosure of where the bureau has attached > surveillance cams on Seattle utility poles. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 21:53:22 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:53:22 -0400 Subject: Oilprice vs Solar Price Message-ID: On 6/14/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > God I love oilprice dot com! Won't somebody please think of the photons... http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/ https://www.ises.org/ http://www.pv-tech.org/ http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/ http://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/ https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+power+price+trends From skquinn at rushpost.com Wed Jun 15 23:06:58 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:06:58 -0500 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> On Thu, 2016-06-16 at 01:22 -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html > Recent Intel x86 processors implement a secret, powerful control > mechanism that runs on a separate chip that no one is allowed to audit > or examine. > > https://libreboot.org/faq/ > Links being mostly on the billions of gates we know exist, > unfortunately not on the top secret ones we don't... A computer inside a computer, running an OS the users can't change or audit. What could possibly go wrong? And what derelict clown thought up this idea? The existence of this malware is bad enough if it can be disabled, or changed to no longer be a threat. The fact that the CPU will not boot or will not stay running if this "other" CPU is physically removed, makes this a disaster. This makes the Pentium FDIV and F00F bugs look like the missing yellow key bug in MAP31 of the TNT: Evilution episode of Final Doom. (Which is to say, an annoyance but one which can be easily worked around.) Do AMD CPUs have these yet? How about other manufacturers (if there are any left)? Is this something we have to worry about today on any new computer designed for Intel CPUs, or is this just for "enterprise-level" gear? How do I know if a computer has this *before* I buy it? -- Shawn K. Quinn From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 15 22:22:53 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:22:53 -0400 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy Message-ID: https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html Recent Intel x86 processors implement a secret, powerful control mechanism that runs on a separate chip that no one is allowed to audit or examine. https://libreboot.org/faq/ Links being mostly on the billions of gates we know exist, unfortunately not on the top secret ones we don't... From shelley at misanthropia.org Thu Jun 16 07:38:41 2016 From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 07:38:41 -0700 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160616143825.69368F29FA@mailuser.nyi.internal> On June 16, 2016 7:18:33 AM Xer0Dynamite wrote: > >> The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has successfully convinced a > >> federal judge to block the disclosure of where the bureau has attached > >> surveillance cams on Seattle utility poles. > > > > If they had disclosed the locations, I'm sure they'd all end up being > > vandalized. > > Shot at, stolen, spray painted over... > > That's not a legitimate complaint. The local mayor could still > protest the installation of such devices on her/his city. If the > directive to install such devices does not come from a higher up > executive, there''s no reason not to protest if it's undesired. > > The FBI, like all law enforcement, isn't supposed to act like > renegades, taking Justice into their own hands. They can be liable > for CIVIL lawsuits (without the protection of the government) of > acting on their own like that. (Those employees, to protect > themselves, should make sure they have the request from the President > in writing.). > > Here's another schizoid thing about it all. Quiz: The Department of > Justice is under the Executive Branch or the Judicial Branch. Oh, the > Executive, so it just want its own brand of Justice, is that it? > Because what's supposed to happen is that people are to be charged > with a crime by the executive, and THEN it goes in front of a Court to > be heard. > > The other thing is, that the municipal, county, and state government > can say NO to such installations. Don't complain about the federal > government, complain about your local mayor. It's not that easy. The feds claim that each of those hidden cameras is linked to a federal investigation. Which is probably total bullshit, but that's their claim. I'm not sure how much room the mayor has to protest something like that. Also, Ed Murray is a career politician and I don't think he's anti-LE. Our previous mayor, Mike McGinn, probably would have put up a fight against such bullshit. We owe a lot to Ed Murray for advancing LGBTQ equality, but he hasn't been a great mayor. One other thing: local, state and federal LE get away with a hell of a lot by using Fusion centers. They can really blur the lines of what is legal and who has jurisdiction by claiming joint operating protection. It is an unbelievable amount of bullshit (put into place under Bush the Lesser and expanded by Obama.) Combine that with other atrocities like parallel construction and you have the rogue police state we are now experiencing. -S From dreamingforward at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 07:05:16 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:05:16 -0500 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> The US Federal Bureau of Investigation has successfully convinced a >> federal judge to block the disclosure of where the bureau has attached >> surveillance cams on Seattle utility poles. > > If they had disclosed the locations, I'm sure they'd all end up being > vandalized. > Shot at, stolen, spray painted over... That's not a legitimate complaint. The local mayor could still protest the installation of such devices on her/his city. If the directive to install such devices does not come from a higher up executive, there''s no reason not to protest if it's undesired. The FBI, like all law enforcement, isn't supposed to act like renegades, taking Justice into their own hands. They can be liable for CIVIL lawsuits (without the protection of the government) of acting on their own like that. (Those employees, to protect themselves, should make sure they have the request from the President in writing.). Here's another schizoid thing about it all. Quiz: The Department of Justice is under the Executive Branch or the Judicial Branch. Oh, the Executive, so it just want its own brand of Justice, is that it? Because what's supposed to happen is that people are to be charged with a crime by the executive, and THEN it goes in front of a Court to be heard. The other thing is, that the municipal, county, and state government can say NO to such installations. Don't complain about the federal government, complain about your local mayor. Mark http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Hack_the_Law From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jun 16 10:50:44 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 11:50:44 -0600 Subject: Only nine of the 29 Windows VPN clients that I tested didn't leak In-Reply-To: References: <57623B73.5010402@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5762E6F4.1000502@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2016 10:28 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/16/16, Mirimir wrote: >> https://vpntesting.info/ >> >> I tested 29 Windows VPN clients for DNS, IPv4 and IPv6 Leaks. > > Nice. > > You might want to include - For clients that may be doing packet > filtering instead of just modifying kernel routing tables... test > ICMP, generic UDP (non-DNS), TCP, etc. - The codebase and VPN > protocol of each client (OpenVPN, SoftEther, etc) Thanks. I've been thinking about how to test harder. I did ICMP ping 8.8.8.8 and wget google.com, but not other packet types. I'll take a closer look at the clients. In many cases, it was just stock OpenVPN, or maybe with a wrapper. >> hit VPN-specified nameservers directly while reconnecting after >> uplink interruption. But that's not a huge issue, in that they >> didn't hit other nameservers. > > Seems big if the direct hits were not encrypted over the VPN and > user's requirement is to encrypt to the VPN termination. Good point. I'll tweak that language. >> After uplink interruption, some failed to reconnect >> automatically > > These interruption, reconnect, renegotiation, timeout, edge cases > are important to discover. Yes, it's why doing your own leak prevention is best. Unless the VPN provides its own IPv6 address, disable IPv6 everywhere you can, and block it with firewall rules. Use firewall rules to allow connections on physical interface only to VPN server. Restrict everything else to VPN tunnel. And make sure that you're using VPN-assigned DNS server(s) through VPN tunnel. But the six totally leak-free Windows VPN clients do that. Indeed, FrootVPN and Perfect Privacy provide their own IPv6 addresses. And FrootVPN is leak-free using stock OpenVPN, doing just server-side. > More advanced users of Tor + OpenVPN might be interested in this > capability... https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/ticket/577 Interesting. VPN SOCKS5 port. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXYubxAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+SPIH/igDGoMyQeqm/ZD8XlluRuOK A7ZhSW5aYZ8si8nel9ulj1EyS1AsfUnMJHZmidHDp7PaQMWjyt0fk1StiAIaqaoq NKc4qF68QpZOpfuhijL6JFvaWbNYnsn1aAZ5KDINDz2VRKfGNOnOjkx6BwqXKApg 3VcCV4oc9L79nbXZzjA3JdERQVSA2mA32g6VMN/BkLXXYkb2escV3QlWOst4SaCQ v11hITwGDP0jMRM/hfiTLND2r/h0kzhCVqV7AVLodB09wIZm0pT7fG4Uw1EADwoa x6YV/PHRjqKVsTHc9v/B+WsI1R+AG7Vsv/nQL6smHeqjC3k++ClgUtyAEKErdq8= =T60g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 09:28:50 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:28:50 -0400 Subject: Only nine of the 29 Windows VPN clients that I tested didn't leak In-Reply-To: <57623B73.5010402@riseup.net> References: <57623B73.5010402@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/16/16, Mirimir wrote: > https://vpntesting.info/ > > I tested 29 Windows VPN clients for DNS, IPv4 and IPv6 Leaks. Nice. You might want to include - For clients that may be doing packet filtering instead of just modifying kernel routing tables... test ICMP, generic UDP (non-DNS), TCP, etc. - The codebase and VPN protocol of each client (OpenVPN, SoftEther, etc) > hit VPN-specified nameservers directly while > reconnecting after uplink interruption. But that's not a huge issue, > in that they didn't hit other nameservers. Seems big if the direct hits were not encrypted over the VPN and user's requirement is to encrypt to the VPN termination. > After uplink interruption, > some failed to reconnect automatically These interruption, reconnect, renegotiation, timeout, edge cases are important to discover. More advanced users of Tor + OpenVPN might be interested in this capability... https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/ticket/577 From moosehadley at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 12:36:47 2016 From: moosehadley at gmail.com (Blake Hadley) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:36:47 -0400 Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone In-Reply-To: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> References: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> Message-ID: The way they describe it, they send light down a cable, then watch for the reflection to come back to them. The reflection should look the same with every single pulse of light, unless something affects it, which in this case would be the vibrations of sound. So it should pick up sound along the entire length of cable, which would return a lot of ambient noise if you're trying to hear inside someone's house from all the way back at a utility company. I don't know how good their audio filtering abilities are, but it seems like wherever you take measurements can't be too far from what you want to hear. On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:56 PM, This 1s wrote: > Looking for stuff I found this post: > > > http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2012/09/04/turning-a-fiber-optic-cable-into-a-microphone/ > > > Is internet cable in house a hot mic? > > Is it the end of the fiber, the field around the cable, or both? > > > Thanks in advance :D > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1522 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 16 00:11:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:11:48 +1000 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <20160616071148.GC8633@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 01:06:58AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > On Thu, 2016-06-16 at 01:22 -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html > > Recent Intel x86 processors implement a secret, powerful control > > mechanism that runs on a separate chip that no one is allowed to audit > > or examine. > > > > https://libreboot.org/faq/ > > Links being mostly on the billions of gates we know exist, > > unfortunately not on the top secret ones we don't... > > A computer inside a computer, running an OS the users can't change or > audit. What could possibly go wrong? And what derelict clown thought up > this idea? The derelict clowns at the NSA and other US MIC organs, who pay a pretty penny for the in CPU operating system! And, of course, the derelict clowns heading up Intel who take the money. > The existence of this malware is bad enough if it can be disabled, or > changed to no longer be a threat. The fact that the CPU will not boot or > will not stay running if this "other" CPU is physically removed, makes > this a disaster. This makes the Pentium FDIV and F00F bugs look like the > missing yellow key bug in MAP31 of the TNT: Evilution episode of Final > Doom. (Which is to say, an annoyance but one which can be easily worked > around.) > > Do AMD CPUs have these yet? How about other manufacturers (if there are > any left)? Is this something we have to worry about today on any new > computer designed for Intel CPUs, or is this just for "enterprise-level" > gear? How do I know if a computer has this *before* I buy it? You sir, are not entitled to know! Now get back to your subservient life, peasant! From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 16 00:14:35 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:14:35 +1000 Subject: one man's freedom - romantic snapshot Message-ID: <20160616071435.GD8633@x220-a02> >From the American Prairies to the Russian Steppes (Video) An American Sioux flees America to find freedom and a new life in Russia Alexei Ovchinnikov Simon North A Native American from South Dakota, USA, has left the land of the free to find what he considers to be true freedom in Russia’s countryside. The narrator notes the physical resemblance of Justin Irwin, or Big Wolf, to his Sioux warrior ancestors as described by adventure novelists of the time like Thomas Mayne Reid and James Fenimore Cooper:“Quite a hard face with an aquiline nose, strong chin, high cheekbones and dark hair in a plait at the nape of his neck.” As to what removed Big Wolf from his native prairies to place him in the Russian hinterland, Irwin bewails the place of money in American culture and the corporatism it entails, leading to what he describes as a fascist, police state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kbrvxsOX-8 From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 14:29:20 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:29:20 -0400 Subject: Enemy Of The State... Under Ur Bus, Rushin Ur Home [was: crypto anonymity] Message-ID: On 6/7/16, Rayzer wrote: > But honestly. If you use tails with tor on a public library computer > miles from where you live to deliver documentation there's no physical > trace on any computer anywhere and even IF the exit entrance and ALL THE > TOR NODES were pwned by the FBI's DITU crew they STILL wouldn't know who > you are or be able to geolocate you accurately. All nodes?... then even with your e2e-TLS they still know your endpoint, time and bytes. They see that, pull your face from the library video and roadways of your plate, fingerprints from that book you picked up, DNA from the fuck all mess you left in the loo, the IMEI from the towers, your facebook gps presence via your phone, bounce it all around Lexis and IAFIS Part Deux, etc... and you're rushed and zeroed all for doxing some corruption... or maybe just buyin a lil weed off darkmarket to smoke in ur VW bus while talkin harmless shit about the man... man. lol. > How secure do you need to be Juan? As in swimming, coding, and locksport, everyone should practice opsec... just in case they need it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJQ30fPYec8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpHhPaVHhxw Keep in mind that was *18 years ago*... Today it's more than real... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS-BQF1X7Qw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tant0AMirJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlSAiI3xMh4 Other takes on the EOS phrase that came up in youtube... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLf2gqSJ98 http://www.fullmoon.nu/book/side_issues/IdentityCards.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sTfpj-IF_Y https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=enemy+of+the+state From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 16 00:37:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 17:37:42 +1000 Subject: the beast flails against itself In-Reply-To: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> References: <20160612030402.GA5642@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160616073742.GE8633@x220-a02> As Russia Obliterates CIA's 'Moderate' Aleppo Rebels the Pentagon Does a Happy Dance There's no hatred like hatred between rival bureaucracies http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-obliterates-cias-moderate-syria-rebels-pentagon-does-happy-dance/ri14957 Quite humorous, except that a few 100 thousand humans have lost their lives as a result ... and that's just in Syria. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 15:15:09 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:15:09 -0400 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: >> Do AMD CPUs have these yet? The second link was there for a purpose. From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 18:16:11 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:16:11 -0700 Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone In-Reply-To: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> References: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:56 AM, This 1s wrote: > Is internet cable in house a hot mic? > I doubt it. Sounds like this needs some pretty special equipment at the end of the fiber. Also not clear that it can be used concurrently with data transmission over the fiber. Could be that the company is lighting up unused fiber? Cheap way to get audio surveillance along a vast stretch of pipeline that happens to have some dark fiber sitting beside it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 865 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 15:03:46 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:03:46 -0300 Subject: Shit The FBI Says... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57632210.c437ed0a.d15a8.7c1c@mx.google.com> On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 09:05:16 -0500 Xer0Dynamite wrote: > The FBI, like all law enforcement, isn't supposed to act like > renegades, taking Justice into their own hands.] Newsflash!! the fbi and any other part of your government are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. > They can be liable > for CIVIL lawsuits (without the protection of the government) of > acting on their own like that. (Those employees, to protect > themselves, should make sure they have the request from the President > in writing.). > > Here's another schizoid thing about it all. Quiz: The Department of > Justice is under the Executive Branch or the Judicial Branch. Oh, the > Executive, so it just want its own brand of Justice, is that it? > Because what's supposed to happen is that people are to be charged > with a crime by the executive, and THEN it goes in front of a Court to > be heard. > > The other thing is, that the municipal, county, and state government > can say NO to such installations. Don't complain about the federal > government, complain about your local mayor. > > Mark > http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Hack_the_Law From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 15:06:28 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:06:28 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:06:58 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > On Thu, 2016-06-16 at 01:22 -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-with.html > > Do AMD CPUs have these yet? I want to know too. (OK, I'll see what I can find out...) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 15:18:50 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:18:50 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57632598.07538c0a.466cc.ffff9a6c@mx.google.com> On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:15:09 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > >> Do AMD CPUs have these yet? > > The second link was there for a purpose. well, your link wasn't explicitly enough this one is : https://libreboot.org/faq/#amd From this1s at mailbox.org Thu Jun 16 10:56:55 2016 From: this1s at mailbox.org (This 1s) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:56:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone Message-ID: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> Looking for stuff I found this post: http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2012/09/04/turning-a-fiber-optic-cable-into-a-microphone/ Is internet cable in house a hot mic? Is it the end of the fiber, the field around the cable, or both? Thanks in advance :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 397 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 18:01:27 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:01:27 -0400 Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone In-Reply-To: <144961222.4673726.1466122448738.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> <144961222.4673726.1466122448738.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/16/16, jim bell wrote: > Presumably, the light (probably actually the IR, or infrared) leaves the end > of the fiber, and then reflects off a (very nearby, say 10 micron away) > flat, ultra-thin membrane (perpendicular to the fiber) which has been coated > to make it optically reflective. The resulting reflection re-enters the > fiber, and returns to the source. The light source (presumably a laser) > is then optically-mixed with the reflection IR, and this results in an > FM-modulated signal. Jim Bell > The way they describe it, they send light down a cable, then watch for the > reflection to come back to them. > The reflection should look the same with every single pulse of light, unless > something affects it, which in this case would be the vibrations of sound. > So it should pick up sound along the entire length of cable, which would > return a lot of ambient noise if you're trying to hear inside someone's > house from all the way back at a utility company. > I don't know how good their audio filtering abilities are, but it seems like > wherever you take measurements can't be too far from what you want to hear. > Looking for stuff I found this post: > http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2012/09/04/turning-a-fiber-optic-cable-into-a-microphone/ > Is internet cable in house a hot mic?Is it the end of the fiber, the field > around the cable, or both? Without searching for their mentioned acronym and tech, and since any moron can setup what amounts to a $100 optical audio bounce off a glass window pane, be it a tiny polished fiber end or bedroom window... given the frequency limit, distances, and going more exotic, I was thinking audio / groundwave causing lateral physical stress upon the fiber inducing lensing effects possibly detectable by insane OTDR / DSP tech. Then again, I'm insane. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 18:27:24 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:27:24 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Discuss-gnuradio] IMSI Catcher Catcher? In-Reply-To: <31189.1466126114@server1.tristatelogic.com> References: <31189.1466126114@server1.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:15:14 -0700 Subject: [Discuss-gnuradio] IMSI Catcher Catcher? To: discuss-gnuradio at gnu.org [[ Up front confession: I know essentially nothing about radio. ]] Just a short while ago, I saw a Vice News video titled "State of Surveillance" in which Snowden brought up the fact that some journalists had found and outted some stingrays (IMSI Catchers) which had, apparently, been operating in some very sensitive areas of Oslo, Norway, for an unknown amount of time, managed by unknown people, for unknown purposes. That was the first that I personally had ever heard about that, so I googled it and found a lot of information about it online. I started to wonder about the fact that these Norwegian journalists were able to pull together the hardware and software necessary to detect the various anomalies that indicated the presence of these multiple stingrays in the Oslo city center. I googled some more and found the following blog article, written by Bruce Schneier, in which he notes that these days, pretty much anybody could easily build their own stingray, presumably out of an off-the- shelf computer and a reasonably cheap ($330 USD) little box called a "HackRF": https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/04/the_further_dem_1.html So, after that I was thinking that perhaps someone already has! Or better yet, perhaps someone has already written the code necessary to turn, for example, an ordinary laptop plus a HackRF box into a portable device that could *detect* the presence of stingrays, i.e. an "IMS-Catcher Catcher". For me at least it would be really a lot of fun to have one of those, i.e. an IMS-Catcher Catcher (stingray detector). I am not far from the State Capitol in California, and I, for one, would love nothing better than to wardrive down around the Capitol (and associated state government buildings), checking to see if there are any active stingrays operating in the area. (In the Oslo incidents, it was reported that several of the stringrays seemed to be strategically placed near major government building, including the Prime Minister's residence.) Of course, if I found any, I would immediately try to share that info with the few journos I know... and everybody else who I could get to pay attention. So, anyway, finally, my quuestion: Do any of you folks here know if anybody has created any publically available software (copyleft or otherwise) that would allow, e.g. a HackRF or any other inexpensive SDR to be turned into a stingray detector? If so, I'd love to receive a link to that. I have a laptop and $330 USB burning a hole in my pocket. Regards, rfg P.S. I did do some googling for what I'm asking for (before posting here) but the closest thing I found way an academic paper from Q3 2014 that seemed to say that the software these guys developed wasn't even up to what could be called "Beta quality": https://www.sba-research.org/wp-content/uploads/publications/DabrowskiEtAl-IMSI-Catcher-Catcher-ACSAC2014.pdf They made their code freely available, but it appears that it has been stagnant and languishing since they did their paper in Q3 2014. :-( https://sourceforge.net/projects/icc/ P.P.S. In an ideal world, I'd like to see great massive hoards of people running around city centers all over the world... wardriving for a new generation... triangulating the exact locations of any stingrays they find, and then making all that info public someplace, e.g. on some single web site. I mean nobody knows where these things are *or* who might be operating them! (Anybody can buy one now for only $1800 USD off of alibaba.com... or probably build one themselves for much less with a laptop and a HackRF.) P.P.P.S. It really is too bad that the journalists who broke the Oslo stingrays story didn't do the sensible thing and follow-up properly on their initial finding, i.e. by *triangulating* until they had the exact locations of the various stingrays they found. If they had done that, then it might have been a LOT harder for the Powers That Be to just dismiss and deny their published findings, as they did, thus effectively sweeping the whole thing under the rug as far as the public was concerned. _______________________________________________ Discuss-gnuradio mailing list Discuss-gnuradio at gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnuradio From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 18:34:41 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:34:41 -0400 Subject: The Law of the Log [was: tor webmail/vpn/hosting providers] Message-ID: On 6/7/16, Артур Истомин wrote: > On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 03:40:37PM +0200, carlo von lynX wrote: >> I don't understand why people still use mail services under >> Patriot Act.. er.. I mean Freedom Act jurisdiction? It's >> like searching with DuckDuckGo.. even if the majority of >> employees is sooo convinced that they are not collaborating >> with authorities, the law says they are. > > Exactly my thoughts. Duckduckgo and other services under US jurisdiction > *by law* saving logs, mails etc. There are laws - 'must' log / save, in fucked up countries - 'must not', in nicer countries - 'may' or 'no such law', in other weird / free / limbo places In the context, the US is actually largely the third case. In that situation, human nature trends toward saving, which then gets abused, whether by the saver and their lineage, or by an authority over, or adversary of, the saver. >> Laws are one of the few things on earth that still tell the >> truth. Once you read them, you understand why the earth is shite. >> The fact, only a minority does, allows general population (and >> the media by reflection) to think of reality as something else >> than what it is. See also: Reality TV programming From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 16 17:14:08 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 00:14:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone In-Reply-To: References: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> Message-ID: <144961222.4673726.1466122448738.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Presumably, the light (probably actually the IR, or infrared) leaves the end of the fiber, and then reflects off a (very nearby, say 10 micron away) flat, ultra-thin membrane (perpendicular to the fiber) which has been coated to make it optically reflective.  The resulting reflection re-enters the fiber, and returns to the source.    The light source (presumably a laser) is then optically-mixed with the reflection IR, and this results in an FM-modulated signal.         Jim Bell From: Blake Hadley To: This 1s Cc: CypherPunks Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone The way they describe it, they send light down a cable, then watch for the reflection to come back to them. The reflection should look the same with every single pulse of light, unless something affects it, which in this case would be the vibrations of sound. So it should pick up sound along the entire length of cable, which would return a lot of ambient noise if you're trying to hear inside someone's house from all the way back at a utility company. I don't know how good their audio filtering abilities are, but it seems like wherever you take measurements can't be too far from what you want to hear. On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 1:56 PM, This 1s wrote: Looking for stuff I found this post:http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2012/09/04/turning-a-fiber-optic-cable-into-a-microphone/ Is internet cable in house a hot mic?Is it the end of the fiber, the field around the cable, or both? Thanks in advance :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4268 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 21:55:14 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 00:55:14 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Bittorrent starting to move entirely within anonymous overlay nets In-Reply-To: <575B6377.90807@riseup.net> References: <91bc6be3-68b4-1c07-f75c-295a861457d8@gmail.com> <51b8845d-be2b-571b-4ebb-b1f2d3267d16@gmail.com> <575B6377.90807@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/10/16, Mirimir wrote: > But there's still the traffic load. Or maybe, one could consider it as > chaff. Just sort of, though. Right? If that's the old "OMG, too much" argument... load re anon overlay nets may be more like bitcoin's interrelated variables... difficulty, txfees, reward, watts, price, txrate, etc... they'll slide nicely around to compensate until some unsolveable fundamental limit is reached. ie: Private (non-exit/I2P) use of these nets... if they slow, users will start talking urging more nodes, which they'll readily deploy themselves since private is low risk and satiates their use case. If the required node count to support n-million users starts blowing up CPU/RAM, devs will start getting poked to work on layering that. Even parallel nets with usage charters may arise by then as a given networks adversary resistance begets users begets trust begets honoring narrower charter. Besides, load happens to useful nets, no point trying to stave it off (nets are anon so staving is a no anyway), and trying to stave makes the stavers look stupid. A little education helps too, users will self regulate if they sense that, "Oh shit, I know this net is used for , but I can't even get my own through, so I better ease up on variable ". Is it chaff, and good as to filling otherwise quiet parts of the net? Perhaps. But as in other GPA threads, I think fill traffic may need to be actively managed to defeat that, rather than just flooded. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 22:23:05 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:23:05 -0400 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/17/16, juan wrote: > Any-way, what's the point of bothering running any sort of > 'secure' software on wholly compromised hardware...? There isn't. But blatant risk taking is apparently fun for humans to engage in ;) > I naively admit I wasn't aware of the fact that americunts > (intel/amd) had sunk that low, but then again that's rather > stupid on my part. Don't worry, many people don't know Intel's NIC's are involved in it too, all documented on Intel's site. Which means like any good manufacturer, they left themselves (and whoever their buddies or daddies are) nice little magic packet backdoors to the otherwise "secure" AMT, before even getting packet to the CPU gates and userland. > Question remains, addressed to people interested in > 'security' : > > Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental problem...? I certainly not first to suggest starting open version of cpu and fab, but people cry 'impossible', and 'cost v benefit', 'time', bawl waah. Musk said fuck all that anti BS and is going to Mars. > All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar > propaganda is...well...propaganda. There are facts in there. But what is the fundamental problem? Surveillance? Secrets? Structures? The human genome? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 21:35:22 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:35:22 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:15:09 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > >> Do AMD CPUs have these yet? > > The second link was there for a purpose. > https://libreboot.org/faq/ Any-way, what's the point of bothering running any sort of 'secure' software on wholly compromised hardware...? I naively admit I wasn't aware of the fact that americunts (intel/amd) had sunk that low, but then again that's rather stupid on my part. Question remains, addressed to people interested in 'security' : Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental problem...? All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar propaganda is...well...propaganda. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 22:46:04 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:46:04 -0400 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > On 6/17/16, juan wrote: >> the fact that americunts >> (intel/amd) had sunk that low Then there's question what is and isn't secret in these chips, who will buy them, and what they'll do to Intel and users, by who... https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+processors https://www.google.com/search?q=indian+processors https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+processors From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:24:25 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 02:24:25 -0400 Subject: The Memory Hole 2 Message-ID: http://thememoryhole2.org/ Back for round 2. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:52:01 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 02:52:01 -0400 Subject: Snowden on VICE/HBO 'State of Surveillance' Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucRWyGKBVzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhPV58YV_Kk When NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden leaked details of massive government surveillance programs in 2013, he ignited a raging debate over digital privacy and security. That debate came to a head this year, when Apple refused an FBI court order to access the iPhone of alleged San Bernardino Terrorist Syed Farook. Meanwhile, journalists and activists are under increasing attack from foreign agents. To find out the government's real capabilities, and whether any of us can truly protect our sensitive information, VICE founder Shane Smith heads to Moscow to meet the man who started the conversation, Edward Snowden. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:17:18 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 03:17:18 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576395c0.8726c80a.2b5af.ffffad56@mx.google.com> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:23:05 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 6/17/16, juan wrote: > > Any-way, what's the point of bothering running any sort of > > 'secure' software on wholly compromised hardware...? > > There isn't. But blatant risk taking is apparently fun for humans > to engage in ;) Yeah... Well, I imagine that 'upstanding citizens' assume they will never be attacked by the Intel/AMD/US governmentcorporation. So, from the point of view of 'upstanding citizens' everything is fine and dandy. I know, in theory it may be possible for evil terrists to use the same backdoors or 'management engine' that the US govtcorp uses, but I think that's unlikely. Contrary to libertarian wishes, the gov't isn't that stupid or inept. > > > I naively admit I wasn't aware of the fact that americunts > > (intel/amd) had sunk that low, but then again that's rather > > stupid on my part. > > Don't worry, many people don't know Intel's NIC's are involved > in it too, all documented on Intel's site. Which means like > any good manufacturer, they left themselves (and whoever > their buddies or daddies are) nice little magic packet backdoors > to the otherwise "secure" AMT, before even getting packet > to the CPU gates and userland. Ah yes, the ethernet subsystems also have a fully compromissed embedded procesor(s)? > > > Question remains, addressed to people interested in > > 'security' : > > > > Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental > > problem...? > > I certainly not first to suggest starting open version of cpu and fab, > but people cry 'impossible', and 'cost v benefit', 'time', bawl waah. Yes, and I'm wondering why. Creating a replacement for intel processors at 'competitive' prices might be a bit hard, but...hm...OK...there's this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenRISC > > Musk said fuck all that anti BS and is going to Mars. > > > All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar > > propaganda is...well...propaganda. > > There are facts in there. > > But what is the fundamental problem? > Surveillance? Secrets? Structures? > > The human genome? Yeah, maybe the human genome. But joking aside, if one wants a 'secure' system of sorts while said 'secure' system can be trivially remote controlled by an 'attacker', one seems to have a fundamental problem, in my opinion... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:20:43 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 03:20:43 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5763968d.1203370a.6167e.ffffacef@mx.google.com> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 01:46:04 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > > On 6/17/16, juan wrote: > >> the fact that americunts > >> (intel/amd) had sunk that low > > Then there's question what is and isn't secret in these chips, > who will buy them, and what they'll do to Intel and users, > by who... > > https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+processors > https://www.google.com/search?q=indian+processors > https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+processors A quick look and I see there are no indian processors and a few russian ones. China is a wholly different matter and but althoug I'm not too hapy to admit it, the chinese can be trusted as much as the americans : zero. Not sure if that's what you were getting at though? From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jun 17 07:49:04 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 07:49:04 -0700 Subject: Turning optical fiber cable into microphone In-Reply-To: References: <1020347516.35649.1466099815308@office.mailbox.org> <144961222.4673726.1466122448738.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Jason McVetta: > special equipment & dark fiber > >> grarpamp: >> morons with OTDR / DSP tech. >> >>> jim bell: >>> light + reflection IR = FM-modulated signal. >>> >>>> Blake Hadley: >>>> send light down a cable, watch for >>>> vibrations of sound along the length of cable >>>> in the reflection >>>> >>>> measurements can't be too far from target >>>> Thanks! I wonder if my ISP are morons and how well they can clean up all the noise :P -- This1s From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 23:12:22 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:12:22 +0300 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) Message-ID: Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution is a book by Peter Kropotkin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evolution https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1902/mutual-aid/ Written partly in response to social Darwinism and in particular to Thomas H. Huxley's Nineteenth Century essay, "The Struggle for Existence", Kropotkin's book drew on his experiences in scientific expeditions in Siberia to illustrate the phenomenon of cooperation. After examining the evidence of cooperation in nonhuman animals, in pre-feudal societies and medieval cities, and in modern times, he concluded that *cooperation and mutual aid, and not Darwin's pitiless struggle, are the most important factors in the evolution of species and the ability to survive.* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1015 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mutual_Aid-A_Factor_of_Evolution-Peter_Kropotkin.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 557338 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryacko at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 09:56:48 2016 From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:56:48 -0700 Subject: No subject Message-ID: https://twitter.com/YourAnonCentral/status/743498759892406272 From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 01:54:34 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:54:34 +0300 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Friends and Colleagues, sorry for the pdf attachment. I know most of us have got a "vomit reflex" on pdf and alike... The pdf version of the book (after a light check of it) was intended only for my friend Zenaan in a private correspondence. With respect, Alexander. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shelley at misanthropia.org Fri Jun 17 12:03:12 2016 From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:03:12 -0700 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160617190256.82AB1CCDA6@mailuser.nyi.internal> On June 17, 2016 10:11:05 AM Ryan Carboni wrote: > https://twitter.com/YourAnonCentral/status/743498759892406272 Heh: "Real Official Authentic #Anonymous" That's like the party van parked in front of your house with "100% Cable Repair Co. NOT the Feds! #real anon #AllYourExitNodesAreBelongToUs" painted on the side :p From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 02:09:41 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:09:41 +0300 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This work is such a tremendous FRESH AIR for us... after reading-seeing & being zombified by the "social Darwinists" with their endless examples of pitiless and brutal struggle in the Nature (-> thus it "must be" between us too!). Rereading this wonderful work (now on English)...i meet again Kropotkin's (and other researchers) great examples of mutual aid in the animal kingdom. One of these examples is truly amazing: Facts illustrating mutual aid amidst the termites, the ants, and the bees > are so well known to the general reader, especially through the works of > Romanes, L. Büchner, and Sir John Lubbock, that I may limit my remarks to a > very few hints.(7*) If we take an ants' nest, we not only see that every > description of work- rearing of progeny, foraging, building, rearing of > aphides, and so on -- is performed according to the principles of voluntary > mutual aid; we must also recognize, with Forel, that the chief, the > fundamental feature of the life of many species of ants is the fact and the > obligation for every ant of sharing its food, already swallowed and partly > digested, with every member of the community which may apply for it. Two > ants belonging to two different species or to two hostile nests, when they > occasionally meet together, will avoid each other. But two ants belonging > to the same nest or to the same colony of nests will approach each other, > exchange a few movements with the antennae, and "if one of them is hungry > or thirsty, and especially if the other has its crop full... it immediately > asks for food." The individual thus requested never refuses; it sets apart > its mandibles, takes a proper position, and regurgitates a drop of > transparent fluid which is licked up by the hungry ant. Regurgitating food > for other ants is so prominent a feature in the life of ants (at liberty), > and it so constantly recurs both for feeding hungry comrades and for > feeding larvae, that Forel considers the digestive tube of the ants as > consisting of two different parts, one of which, the posterior, is for the > special use of the individual, and the other, the anterior part, is chiefly > for the use of the community. If an ant which has its crop full has been > selfish enough to refuse feeding a comrade, it will be treated as an enemy, > or even worse. If the refusal has been made while its kinsfolk were > fighting with some other species, they will fall back upon the greedy > individual with greater vehemence than even upon the enemies themselves. > And if an ant has not refused to feed another ant belonging to an enemy > species, it will be treated by the kinsfolk of the latter as a friend. > > All this is confirmed by most accurate observation and decisive > experiments.(8*) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2928 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jun 17 09:56:03 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 12:56:03 -0400 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57642BA3.8080600@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2016 05:09 AM, Александр wrote: > This work is such a tremendous FRESH AIR for us... after > reading-seeing & being zombified by the "social Darwinists" with > their endless examples of pitiless and brutal struggle in the > Nature (-> thus it "must be" between us too!). > > Rereading this wonderful work (now on English)...i meet again > Kropotkin's (and other researchers) great examples of mutual aid in > the animal kingdom. > > One of these examples is truly amazing: Here's mine: Over the years three people have told me the same curious story about how their dog died: Old and sick, about ready to go, the dog went out and disappeared: To be found later, having dug a fairly deep hole in the ground some distance away from the house, backed into it, and died there. None of these animals was "in the habit" of digging holes and camping there. An animal that is about to die will not reproduce. That beast has already been dealt out of the game. Yet somehow, the domesticated canine has acquired a genetic program for a solitary funeral rite: A practical one, that inhibits the spread of disease and minimizes attraction of scavengers etc. to the site. How is that possible? The all-conquering Dominant Individual may or may not contribute to the survival of a community that includes his or her own offspring. But the individual whose behavior actually does contribute to the survival of that community increases the odds of his or her descendants out-competing those of other local communities. Add massively iterated trial and error and viola: Whatever neurophysical mechanism inspires a dying dog to do that unlikely ritual became a factory stock feature in the canine world. The recently popular book Sex At Dawn includes a fatal critique of "what we think we know" about those horrible killer apes whose example supposedly explains and excuses human ultra-violence. Among other examples, it turns out that foraging apes, when presented with a single super high value food source daily by anthropologists who want to study them, do begin to fight over control of that pile of fruit. The most dominant individuals "would rather let it rot" than allow others to share it: A massively iterated genetic trial and error process prepared them to defend high value food items "as if" there was only enough for one or two individuals - because that is usually true of "rare goodies" found while foraging. But meanwhile, when observed foraging in the wild, members of the same species tend to announce their finds to attract others to areas where more goodies are likely to be found, by bragging on the way cool find /they/ own. Among Homo Saps, the massive advantages of language and technology have given a free ride to individuals who get top marks in intelligence, strength and psychopathy. They organize for mutual advantage and spread their contra-survival social traits through the population like a wildfire. Thanks to abstract language, the capacity to lie gives them a powerful arsenal of behavioral manipulation techniques and they will seize on any opportunity to rationalize and glorify their violent behavior. Their cult of the "rugged individual" and deification of those who accumulate the most wealth and power at the expense of the community has yet to be bred out of the human species by massively iterated trial and error. One of these days I'm gonna create a propaganda poster modeled on the heroic art of the NSDAP, featuring our favorite Objectivist, with the inspirational slogan: "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ayn Rand." :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXZCujAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqNCYH/1wubp64zk+S86M3TuCAfQXu a8asvbOL0DnoACNg5iVAzHdSpIBV3fyDBmlSd1fW9id0A9PJkL85GiLHtDfOJhM4 1s3E8gwHmm1mzLHTDQEgHrrBkGVKxJjWPxWRfTDBQOTbP/Uyd/2/E/46pwNRb8xK CqbCybW7kGtlPwlPPTO9jaHNYHh5M5Pq8vNPRhvg2hZr2iQnahKTjG7GLpsH/Uie Fj6WEfL6eFgqBMBlfNh4diONZL6xoEowLtpa1IvI54jPLWmKCWKDkwT1j2F6NxPr nA/Glw8uUhhMdio4do4Y+0B1BqZKi9fShNMXNyPPnUmp0uck/1STlpHKwVjDPQE= =Ak01 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From anthony at cajuntechie.org Fri Jun 17 11:52:38 2016 From: anthony at cajuntechie.org (Anthony Papillion) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:52:38 -0500 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/16/2016 11:35 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 18:15:09 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > >>>> Do AMD CPUs have these yet? >> >> The second link was there for a purpose. >> https://libreboot.org/faq/ > > > > Any-way, what's the point of bothering running any sort of > 'secure' software on wholly compromised hardware...? > > I naively admit I wasn't aware of the fact that americunts > (intel/amd) had sunk that low, but then again that's rather > stupid on my part. > > Question remains, addressed to people interested in > 'security' : There's value in running security software on a compromised system because it helps to stop /mass/ surveillance. Ultimately, if you are under surveillance, they're going to get you but they're going to have to devote some time an effort /to you/. You're not going to get caught up in the worldwide dragnet. My personal quarrel with the NSA and other security services isn't that they watch people at all. It's that innocent people are getting caught in a dragnet and that information could be used against them later. > Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental problem...? It's a hard AND expensive problem to address. There aren't a whole lot of people with processor design skills that aren't already working in processor design for one of the biggies. And the few that are likely don't have the money to bring up what it takes to do it. It's not like this is going to be bootstrapped by a Kickstarter. > All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar > propaganda is...well...propaganda. It's making people more aware of what's going on and how to protect themselves. Sure, it's not solving the problem but it is making things a bit better. Perfect is the enemy of good. If the spooks don't go after one person because it would take more personalized resources than simply catching them in a dragnet, that security has worked. We don't need 'perfect'. We need 'good enough'. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 10:43:23 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:43:23 -0300 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57643685.5125ed0a.da985.fffff3fe@mx.google.com> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 09:56:48 -0700 Ryan Carboni wrote: > https://twitter.com/YourAnonCentral/status/743498759892406272 Ahaha. As if 'anonymous' wasn't a wholly owned subsidiary of the US gov't? One belonging to the feminazi brand, to be more precise. Anyway, it's nice to see two factions of orks fighting each other. From shelley at misanthropia.org Fri Jun 17 15:51:30 2016 From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:51:30 -0700 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <20160617225114.501E2CC01B@mailuser.nyi.internal> On June 17, 2016 3:37:42 PM Mr Nobody wrote: > I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into when > using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also they use > your replies to train artificial intelligence modes > > https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/index.html#creation-of-value > > > Tor users helping google with image recognition lol > > -- > http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion > It's been that way for many years... I'm surprised there is anyone left who didn't know that. (Not being a smartass. I think it was 5 or 6 years ago that 4chan had an admittedly poor-taste go at trying to poison the well there.) -S From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 12:28:50 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:28:50 -0300 Subject: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 17, 2016 2:04 PM, "Ryan Carboni" wrote: > > https://twitter.com/YourAnonCentral/status/743498759892406272 Meh, too childish... It's becoming pretty boring! :-/ Maybe a man can't see it, but even the most stupid woman in the world can notice an evident *lie* in the last statment published. The obvious efforts trying to adjust the accusations to being more realistic and plausible, giving also more colours and emotions, are pretty interesting. I like it! ;) I didn't stop to search for some trustworthy information and for more references in last days. A programmer (woman) told me some 'juicy gossip' about one of alleged victims, but it would be pretty disgusting to tell it here. Ugh! :-/ Well, in thesis, one of alleged victims is being hypocrite and hates Jacob. It was obvious since the first message, but some of the reasons were unexpected for me, at least. I need to search more information about it and verify if it is really true before invite her to write a statment or tell more about it in a trial. Another tech woman, a brutally sincere friend who I love a lot and consider one of the most intelligent persons that I know, perceived the lie that I mentioned before I point it to her. It simply does not make sense... :-/ I always says my friend is a 'feminazi' who hates all the men and she knows about it and says even worse things about me, hahaha!! She is really bitter sometimes, but pretty realistic and I do love extremely sincere friends, haha!! ;D Well, she knows in person Jake, Isis and a lot of people mentioned and doesn't like anyone. None of them, I swear. :P Told me some stories about egocentrism, injured pride, politics, money, etc, and asked me to avoid this kind of f*cking harmful crazy people because I am too stupid to protect myself, haha!! It makes sense, but now I am curious about the truth, haha!! ;D She asked me to avoid meetings with one of alleged victims at any cost, because "she is a f*cking sick jealous crazy b*tch", able of killing me and tell lies about self-defense or psychotical breaks and lapses of memory in public. My friend is a bit neurotic, but is a good woman and is just worried about me, hihi... ;) Just in case, the world is really small and I will contact one of the ex-partners of this alleged victim in special. I don't know him, but I would like to know if she likes scandals, lies, breaking objects, this kind of crazy stupid actions... She has an ego much bigger than usual and I know that Jake has the same problem, ugh! :P Warm hugs and tender kisses!!! Ah, thank you everybody!!! I received some lovely messages about helping homeless people and two donations, yay!!! ;D (No Tor t-shirts, but some hot blankets! <3 ) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3077 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shelley at misanthropia.org Fri Jun 17 16:40:54 2016 From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:40:54 -0700 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <20160617234037.C3901CC070@mailuser.nyi.internal> On June 17, 2016 3:37:42 PM Mr Nobody wrote: > I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into when > using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also they use > your replies to train artificial intelligence modes In case you or anyone else is interested in the evolution of recaptcha after google acquired it in 2009 - beginning with using us as free labor to digitize their books, to decoding street addresses for Google maps and on to the Match Game crap we have today: https://techcrunch.com/2012/03/29/google-now-using-recaptcha-to-decode-street-view-addresses/ http://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/something-interesting-ive-noticed-recently-with-recaptcha.423026/ Warning for sensitive individuals: this image contains a racial slur. It was what /b/ called the attempt to screw with recaptcha, just including it for relevant reference (so don't send me hate mail): http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/1019304/Operation/ So, yeah. We've known from the start that they were using recaptcha as free labor. -S From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 16 23:51:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:51:26 +1000 Subject: Physical Key Extraction Attacks on PCs Message-ID: <20160617065126.GE18717@x220-a02> Fwd: Subject: [ PFIR ] Physical Key Extraction Attacks on PCs Physical Key Extraction Attacks on PCs http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2016/6/202646-physical-key-extraction-attacks-on-pcs/fulltext Our research thus focuses on two main questions: Can physical side-channel attacks be used to nonintrusively extract secret keys from PCs, despite their complexity and operating speed? And what is the cost of such attacks in time, equipment, expertise, and physical access? Results. We have identified multiple side channels for mounting physical key-extraction attacks on PCs, applicable in various scenarios and offering various trade-offs among attack range, speed, and equipment cost. The following sections explore our findings, as published in several recent articles. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 16:05:23 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:05:23 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576481fc.da24c80a.f283b.5142@mx.google.com> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:52:38 -0500 Anthony Papillion wrote: > > There's value in running security software on a compromised system > because it helps to stop /mass/ surveillance. Does it? Your servers are compromised and so are your 'SSL' connections...your tor routers are obviously compromised...any system used to defend against mass surveillance that you run on compromised hardware is...compromised. > Ultimately, if you are > under surveillance, they're going to get you but they're going to have > to devote some time an effort /to you/. You're not going to get caught > up in the worldwide dragnet. Backdoored hardware affects everybody except the gov't. Not to mention, why would it be OK to stop mass surveilance but not 'targeted' surveillance...of some big number of people? > > My personal quarrel with the NSA and other security services isn't > that they watch people at all. Well, at least you are sincere... > It's that innocent people are getting > caught in a dragnet and that information could be used against them > later. Aren't they 'innocent'? If they are 'innocent' they 'have nothing to hide'. > > > Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental > > problem...? > > It's a hard AND expensive problem to address. There aren't a whole lot > of people with processor design skills that aren't already working in > processor design for one of the biggies. I don't think processor design is especially hard. I admit I'm guessing, but I can't imagine what could be so hard about designing some kind of not-fancy, risc system. Not to mention.... http://opencores.org/ > And the few that are likely > don't have the money to bring up what it takes to do it. It's not like > this is going to be bootstrapped by a Kickstarter. Actually, it seems exactly like the kind of project that could/should be 'crowfunded'. What's the 'minimum order' when dealing with something like TSMC ? > > > All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar > > propaganda is...well...propaganda. > > It's making people more aware of what's going on and how to protect > themselves. Sure, it's not solving the problem but it is making > things a bit better. I don't know. I wouldn't blame Snowden and co.(or maybe I would?) but since 2013 things just kept and keep getting worse. Your NSA friends didn't back off an inch. > Perfect is the enemy of good. If the spooks > don't go after one person because it would take more personalized > resources than simply catching them in a dragnet, that security has > worked. We don't need 'perfect'. We need 'good enough'. 'good enough' requires working hardware, not hardware remotely controlled from washington. From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 10:15:33 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 20:15:33 +0300 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) In-Reply-To: <57642BA3.8080600@pilobilus.net> References: <57642BA3.8080600@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: > > they will seize on any opportunity to rationalize and > glorify their violent behavior. > > BINGO, Steve! That's why (in this case) Darwin's pitiless struggle as the basic law of nature is so convenient for them -> for the media/education/propaganda. p.s. thank you very much for your thoughts/examples on the subject. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 814 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anthony at cajuntechie.org Fri Jun 17 19:09:21 2016 From: anthony at cajuntechie.org (Anthony Papillion) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:09:21 -0500 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <576481fc.da24c80a.f283b.5142@mx.google.com> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> <576481fc.da24c80a.f283b.5142@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6325ac18-14cf-61de-9c82-61c3bff4139b@cajuntechie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 6/17/2016 6:05 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:52:38 -0500 Anthony Papillion > wrote: > >> >> There's value in running security software on a compromised >> system because it helps to stop /mass/ surveillance. > > Does it? Your servers are compromised and so are your 'SSL' > connections...your tor routers are obviously compromised...any > system used to defend against mass surveillance that you run on > compromised hardware is...compromised. Yes it does. Because before Snowden, they were basically capturing data right off the wire in many cases. They were passive. It just flowed right into their filters. Compromised hardware doesn't stop them from getting your data in all cases, but it makes them work a little more for it. They can't just sit on the wire and collect it because they have to address the differences in each compromised system. They have to seek you out instead of sucking it all in. >> Ultimately, if you are under surveillance, they're going to get >> you but they're going to have to devote some time an effort /to >> you/. You're not going to get caught up in the worldwide >> dragnet. > > Backdoored hardware affects everybody except the gov't. > > Not to mention, why would it be OK to stop mass surveilance but > not 'targeted' surveillance...of some big number of people? I don't have a problem with targeted surveillance For example, if the police believe (with good reason) that someone is plotting to bomb the Whitehouse, I believe they should absolutely have the right and the tools to monitor that person. That surveillance should stop the moment they either have enough to make an arrest or they realize they are wrong. Do you believe that no surveillance should happen at all for any reason? You believe that's reasonable? >> It's that innocent people are getting caught in a dragnet and >> that information could be used against them later. > Aren't they 'innocent'? If they are 'innocent' they 'have nothing > to hide'. I don't subscribe to that believe so please don't put words that I didn't say or assume beliefs that I haven't expressed. People who are caught in the surveillance dragnet /may/ be innocent of any crime or they might not be. We really don't know, do we? I'm sure that some if the information the agencies have gathered /do/ involve people who are guilty of crimes and the data might prove it. Some, probably most, don't. If the government has strong evidence that an individual has committed a crime and evidence of it is being shared with others then they should go through the legal channels and get authorization to collect data on that single person. Not the entire neighborhood, not the entire city. A single person. Also, I don't subscribe to the bs about 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear'. Taking precautions to protect privacy should never be taken as evidence of guilt. I'm not ashamed of my naked body and there are times when I might even have no problem walking in front of a window naked. But there are also times when I want privacy and will draw my blinds. I don't hide the fact that I use the bathroom but that won't stop me from closing the door when I go in. In both of those cases, I'm not hiding anything. I'm exercising a right to /privacy/. My privacy, when I am not committing a crime that harms others, should /always/ be under my control. >>> Nobody seems to be trying to fix 'our' fundamental problem...? >> >> It's a hard AND expensive problem to address. There aren't a >> whole lot of people with processor design skills that aren't >> already working in processor design for one of the biggies. > > I don't think processor design is especially hard. I admit I'm > guessing, but I can't imagine what could be so hard about > designing some kind of not-fancy, risc system. > > Not to mention.... > > http://opencores.org/ Processor design isn't particularly difficult. Neither is algebra. Something doesn't have to be /hard/ to not be /common/ and not be specialized. Processor design is not difficult to those who have taken an interest in it and chosen to learn how to do it. The number of people who would do that and then not seek jobs in the industry is negligible. Sure, there are some people who might do it out of interest or even for fun, but do you believe that number is really enough to start a company powerful enough to mass manufacture chips? Oh, and what about the person actually 'assembling' the chip who might know very little if anything about processor design? What about that person being bribed to insert something they don't even understand into the assembly process? Do you think that wouldn't happen? If Intel made it a policy not to have anything secret in their microprocessors, do you really believe the security agencies would just go "darn! There goes our chance to compromise Intel chips!" Also, what's stopping the agencies from actually starting up a front company just to manufacture open chips and slipping something in? Don't think it would happen because 'someone is watching' and the whole 'shallow bugs with many eyes' thing? I present to you Heartbleed and ShellShock. Oh and, of course, having the perfect processor /design/ is useless unless you have trusted fab which, of course, circles back to the low level worker and a nice big deposit of Bitcoin. >> And the few that are likely don't have the money to bring up >> what it takes to do it. It's not like this is going to be >> bootstrapped by a Kickstarter. > > > Actually, it seems exactly like the kind of project that > could/should be 'crowfunded'. > > What's the 'minimum order' when dealing with something like TSMC ? > OK, so I'll retract my statement above. Maybe this could be crowd sourced. But again, how do we guarantee fab security? If a company has to crowdfund a small number of chips, do you really think they are going to have the money to set up fab operations that they can closely audit and control? >>> All the talk about snowden, tor, 'hacking' and similar >>> propaganda is...well...propaganda. >> >> It's making people more aware of what's going on and how to >> protect themselves. Sure, it's not solving the problem but it is >> making things a bit better. > > > I don't know. I wouldn't blame Snowden and co.(or maybe I would?) > but since 2013 things just kept and keep getting worse. > > Your NSA friends didn't back off an inch. No, you're very right that they didn't. New attacks are being developed right now against vulnerabilities and backdoors we haven't even discovered yet. And the attacks get better and better especially when the companies collude with the government. It's not going to magically get better through simply knowing about how bad it is. That wasn't my point. But what can happen is larger and larger groups of people (who control the money that places like Intel are rather fond of) standing up and saying "we can't trust you so we're going elsewhere". Critical mass is needed to make a difference not just a few geeks ranting on Internet forums and mailing list. We don't have the market moving power that a larger group does. That's why making people aware and actually agitating the situation is so important. >> Perfect is the enemy of good. If the spooks don't go after one >> person because it would take more personalized resources than >> simply catching them in a dragnet, that security has worked. We >> don't need 'perfect'. We need 'good enough'. > > > 'good enough' requires working hardware, not hardware remotely > controlled from washington. No it doesn't. Good enough, in this case, means getting a bit of breathing room for people while the geeks figure out how we back the government off technically. Until they can't technically control every single piece of hardware, at least make it as hard as possible for them to control it. Sure, it's not solving the problem entirely but you have to admit it's going to protect some people who would otherwise get caught up in a dragnet. Their data isn't there anymore. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% behind making hardware secure. But we can't be so focused on absolute security with no compromise that we /only/ work on that and leave everything wide open until we have absolute. That's kind of like "well, we think the NSA might be able to break TLS by asking for our private key so we'll just keep using HTTP until we develop a way where having our private key doesn't matter". You do what you can and then you refine it closer and closer to perfection. Shit, I write a lot... Sorry :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXZK1RAAoJEAKK33RTsEsVZP0QAJGSzHuvIDzoGJav/QG2eXOf hgl8Q/D/0/xStelYBsx2Sq6y6RHzczFeI3LlJdAT3W/WkqtugSCRtTtUFY4sHsyL gbRfCIkW2Yfg25z6fCr5iCp6rMqwEYlEy+H46tVsEizmGtYqVYo1jNaEsHMAzbbD SwTZ+I2sByKRoc+ArLzNiuEyp/1qynxQStocFNjZuhyJi7ujaKxK5k3V6Lh2HBkt dcNJngwJ7Ws4esIDDQ4DtzsNgK56GWMEt66GtUHGQaZxklB+QAwawZGgFpP2rHLu hjH72ko0doGwoSX1SRVATneqofq7WCvR7k8bRTV2ipsgGKHOpfndT6UBldK94ukL Tso2BOb7YVxgNIbz2BIOE4auJr9CNpQJSoaikoLkmQ1/IeYqqt7JAhdYR0VuBNbt 5sFUq0LejAQYZQSNoPX/38tlz6t7+9VO4iVn2iWzNp052/S3UwLvZaH/n9cfjaNm Hjhz0jebH2rzLdm3SlZr8F618luPuqgQg7HHNCdvm2MIlNc5oDKZOWhhfvvgDy1/ q1wZPntscLdolM/VY1m4MZMOK219MEatp4lgNBxsChhKH5Op11LN2U6hUZ069Rgb TL121QmP7JfmkbpehVONRbhhbou8bKsbcRvBe7ZDaS1kp950npNY8vJOjbpcINAX ISgmOkyMy9JcdKhxwhOc =DS8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 17:53:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:53:41 -0300 Subject: Interesting Ethereum Dustup In-Reply-To: References: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57649b5f.4286370a.b1b69.55bd@mx.google.com> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:41:12 +0300 Cari Machet wrote: > goldman sachs is everywhere fucking yeah, what's needed here is not 'smart contracts' but a machine for mincing meat. Anyway, on the topic of 'smart contracts' and all those mirrors and smoke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_funded_crowdfunding_projects highest funded project is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO_%28organization%29 with 160 millions (I think the wiki figure was 230 millions a couple of days ago - wikitrash isn't exactly reliable...) > > On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 2:11 AM, jim bell wrote: > > > > > http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/blockchain-company-s-smart-contracts-were-dumb > > > > > > Partial quote: > > > > Blockchain Company's Smart Contracts Were Dumb > > 2 > > JUNE 17, 2016 5:46 PM EDT > > By > > Matt Levine > > There's a fairly incredible trial going on in London right now. The > > Libyan Investment Authority is suing Goldman Sachs over some trades > > that they did together. To oversimplify slightly, the LIA handed > > Goldman a pile of money and signed some complicated contracts > > describing the circumstances in which Goldman would have to give > > LIA money back, and how much. And then everyone closed their eyes > > and counted to 10, and when they opened their eyes, poof, the money > > was gone. It was $1.2 billion. Libya is mad, and suing. The LIA has > > various arguments in its lawsuit, but none of them amount to > > "Goldman owes us money under those contracts." The contracts > > specified a set of functions that took inputs (mostly, the prices > > of some bank stocks) and produced as outputs a set of dollar > > amounts that Goldman was supposed to pay Libya. The specifications > > in the contracts are perfectly clear; there's no dispute about how > > to read the contracts, or about how the functions work. Everyone > > agrees that the total dollar amount produced by the functions is > > zero. Instead, Libya's arguments take the form of: We didn't really > > mean what those contracts said. We didn't understand them. We were > > bamboozled into signing them, overwhelmed by a "swarm" of Goldman > > bankers, seduced -- literally -- by the bankers' offerings > > ofinternships and aftershaves and prostitutes. We were > > unsophisticated, we trusted Goldman to look out for our best > > interests, we thought the functions were something other than what > > they turned out to be. Whatever you think about those arguments -- > > my own views are complicated -- they are definitely the kinds of > > arguments that are, like, allowed in court. The contracts > > specifying the functions are important. Ninety-nine-point-whatever > > percent of the time, derivatives contracts just work: I pay you a > > premium for a call option, and you promise to pay me if it ends up > > in the money, and if it does, you do, and if it doesn't, I shrug > > and walk away. We knew what we were getting into, and we got out of > > it what we expected. But every so often, people don't know what > > they're getting into, or what they get out of it isn't what either > > side reasonably expected. And when that happens, they go to court > > and argue about it. Usually one side did well out of the deal, and > > argues that everything's fine and everyone got what they expected; > > the other side did poorly, and argues that something fundamentally > > unfair happened and the deal should be altered. [end of portion > > quoted] > > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 18:09:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:09:16 -0300 Subject: Interesting Ethereum Dustup In-Reply-To: References: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57649f06.0126c80a.12941.49bc@mx.google.com> lol! "On June 17, 2016 The DAO was hacked and $50 million in Ether was stolen" From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 17 05:26:59 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:26:59 +1000 Subject: How Russia is preparing for WWIII Message-ID: <20160617122659.GL18717@x220-a02> The Saker May 28, 2016, 3:25 pm How Russia is preparing for WWIII http://theduran.com/russia-preparing-ww3/ I find the Saker an unusually enjoyable read generally, and this submission to theduran.com is no exception. Enjoy.. From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jun 17 15:29:17 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (Mr Nobody) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:29:17 +0000 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models Message-ID: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into when using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also they use your replies to train artificial intelligence modes https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/index.html#creation-of-value Tor users helping google with image recognition lol -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 17 05:48:18 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:48:18 +1000 Subject: How Russia is preparing for WWIII In-Reply-To: <20160617122659.GL18717@x220-a02> References: <20160617122659.GL18717@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160617124818.GM18717@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:26:59PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > The Saker > May 28, 2016, 3:25 pm > > How Russia is preparing for WWIII > > http://theduran.com/russia-preparing-ww3/ > > I find the Saker an unusually enjoyable read generally, and this > submission to theduran.com is no exception. Enjoy.. Above article links to this, which besides being informative, has some mildly humorous factoids: http://thesaker.is/debunking-popular-cliches-about-modern-warfare/ From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 16:11:38 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:11:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Interesting Ethereum Dustup References: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/blockchain-company-s-smart-contracts-were-dumb Partial quote: Blockchain Company's Smart Contracts Were Dumb 2 JUNE 17, 2016 5:46 PM EDT By Matt Levine There's a fairly incredible trial going on in London right now. The Libyan Investment Authority is suing Goldman Sachs over some trades that they did together. To oversimplify slightly, the LIA handed Goldman a pile of money and signed some complicated contracts describing the circumstances in which Goldman would have to give LIA money back, and how much. And then everyone closed their eyes and counted to 10, and when they opened their eyes, poof, the money was gone. It was $1.2 billion. Libya is mad, and suing. The LIA has various arguments in its lawsuit, but none of them amount to "Goldman owes us money under those contracts." The contracts specified a set of functions that took inputs (mostly, the prices of some bank stocks) and produced as outputs a set of dollar amounts that Goldman was supposed to pay Libya. The specifications in the contracts are perfectly clear; there's no dispute about how to read the contracts, or about how the functions work. Everyone agrees that the total dollar amount produced by the functions is zero. Instead, Libya's arguments take the form of: We didn't really mean what those contracts said. We didn't understand them. We were bamboozled into signing them, overwhelmed by a "swarm" of Goldman bankers, seduced -- literally -- by the bankers' offerings ofinternships and aftershaves and prostitutes. We were unsophisticated, we trusted Goldman to look out for our best interests, we thought the functions were something other than what they turned out to be. Whatever you think about those arguments -- my own views are complicated -- they are definitely the kinds of arguments that are, like, allowed in court. The contracts specifying the functions are important. Ninety-nine-point-whatever percent of the time, derivatives contracts just work: I pay you a premium for a call option, and you promise to pay me if it ends up in the money, and if it does, you do, and if it doesn't, I shrug and walk away. We knew what we were getting into, and we got out of it what we expected. But every so often, people don't know what they're getting into, or what they get out of it isn't what either side reasonably expected. And when that happens, they go to court and argue about it. Usually one side did well out of the deal, and argues that everything's fine and everyone got what they expected; the other side did poorly, and argues that something fundamentally unfair happened and the deal should be altered. [end of portion quoted] From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 17 08:04:43 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:04:43 +1000 Subject: And why - US State Dept demands war against Russia in Syria In-Reply-To: <20160617122659.GL18717@x220-a02> References: <20160617122659.GL18717@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160617150443.GN18717@x220-a02> > How Russia is preparing for WWIII And why: 51 John Kerry State Department underlings demand direct war against Russia's protected ally Assad http://russia-insider.com/en/state-department-mutinies-demands-war-vs-russia-over-syria/ri15013 Read to the end. Military muscles appear to be tightening. F$@##$ Insane in the USA! As the beast flails, hope the war mongers don't prevail in their demands.. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 21:28:24 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:28:24 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: <6325ac18-14cf-61de-9c82-61c3bff4139b@cajuntechie.org> References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> <576481fc.da24c80a.f283b.5142@mx.google.com> <6325ac18-14cf-61de-9c82-61c3bff4139b@cajuntechie.org> Message-ID: <5764cdb4.3627c80a.6a4b4.77f7@mx.google.com> On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 21:09:21 -0500 Anthony Papillion wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 6/17/2016 6:05 PM, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:52:38 -0500 Anthony Papillion > > wrote: > > > >> > >> There's value in running security software on a compromised > >> system because it helps to stop /mass/ surveillance. > > > > Does it? Your servers are compromised and so are your 'SSL' > > connections...your tor routers are obviously compromised...any > > system used to defend against mass surveillance that you run on > > compromised hardware is...compromised. > > Yes it does. Because before Snowden, they were basically capturing > data right off the wire in many cases. And now more people turned https on? So the gov't now has to steal keys? And how hard could it be to steal keys when all intel/amd processors are backdoored? Also, you say "before snowden", but it just so happens that there were people giving the game away before snowden did : This is from 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A > They were passive. It just > flowed right into their filters. Compromised hardware doesn't stop > them from getting your data in all cases, but it makes them work a > little more for it. They can't just sit on the wire and collect it > because they have to address the differences in each compromised > system. They have to seek you out instead of sucking it all in. Yes, they now have to work more. But the million dollar question is how much more. > > I don't have a problem with targeted surveillance For example, if the > police believe (with good reason) that someone is plotting to bomb the > Whitehouse, I believe they should absolutely have the right and the > tools to monitor that person. And I believe that blowing up the white house and its contents is an act of justice ;) > That surveillance should stop the moment > they either have enough to make an arrest or they realize they are > wrong. Do you believe that no surveillance should happen at all for > any reason? You believe that's reasonable? This being the cpunks mailing list I think it's reasonable to subscribe to libertarian anarchism and correctly see the government as the biggest criminal organization in town and having zero legitimacy. So I don't think that anything the gov't does is reasonable (OK, defense of person and property would be reasonable IF they only did that, which is virtually impossible or an 'utopia') > > >> It's that innocent people are getting caught in a dragnet and > >> that information could be used against them later. > > Aren't they 'innocent'? If they are 'innocent' they 'have nothing > > to hide'. > > I don't subscribe to that believe so please don't put words that I > didn't say or assume beliefs that I haven't expressed. People who are > caught in the surveillance dragnet /may/ be innocent of any crime or > they might not be. We really don't know, do we? We don't. My point is, if one believes the government is good and it catches the bad guys, then why would one object to mass surveillance? > I'm sure that some if > the information the agencies have gathered /do/ involve people who are > guilty of crimes and the data might prove it. Some, probably most, > don't. 'crimes' as defined by the government? Like smoking pot or gay sex? But again, the gov't uses mass surveillance. They discover 'criminals', which is allegedly good, while the innocent under surveillance don't suffer any harm (they don't even know they are being spied). What's the objection to mass surveillance then? > > Also, I don't subscribe to the bs about 'if you have nothing to hide, > you have nothing to fear'. Why not? The goverment is good. Why shouldn't they know everything, in order to 'prevent' crimes and find 'criminals'? > Taking precautions to protect privacy > should never be taken as evidence of guilt. I'm not ashamed of my > naked body and there are times when I might even have no problem > walking in front of a window naked. But there are also times when I > want privacy and will draw my blinds. I don't hide the fact that I use > the bathroom but that won't stop me from closing the door when I go > in. In both of those cases, I'm not hiding anything. I'm exercising a > right to /privacy/. My privacy, when I am not committing a crime that > harms others, should /always/ be under my control. Right to privacy, sounds reasonable to me, but the government can claim that 'national security' trumps it. Or something. > >> And the few that are likely don't have the money to bring up > >> what it takes to do it. It's not like this is going to be > >> bootstrapped by a Kickstarter. > > > > > > Actually, it seems exactly like the kind of project that > > could/should be 'crowfunded'. > > > > What's the 'minimum order' when dealing with something like TSMC ? > > > OK, so I'll retract my statement above. Maybe this could be crowd > sourced. But again, how do we guarantee fab security? That is of course a good question...My answer is "I don't have the slightest idea" - grarpamp? But at least the design and fabrication of micros seems doable. Not only that, there are a few designs already created... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LatticeMico32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC-V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S1_Core https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSPARC > If a company has > to crowdfund a small number of chips, do you really think they are > going to have the money to set up fab operations that they can closely > audit and control? Building a fab isn't an option - at least not a 5 billion, state of the art fab. What can realistically be crowdfunded is the manufacturing of chips at one of the fabs that do that kind of work. > > No, you're very right that they didn't. New attacks are being > developed right now against vulnerabilities and backdoors we haven't > even discovered yet. And the attacks get better and better especially > when the companies collude with the government. It's not going to > magically get better through simply knowing about how bad it is. That > wasn't my point. I see. > But what can happen is larger and larger groups of > people (who control the money that places like Intel are rather fond > of) standing up and saying "we can't trust you so we're going > elsewhere". Critical mass is needed to make a difference not just a > few geeks ranting on Internet forums and mailing list. We don't have > the market moving power that a larger group does. That's why making > people aware and actually agitating the situation is so important. Yes, if enough people stopped buying stuff from intel, they might get worried. But how many people are we talking about? Tens of millions? More? Is it easier to convince that many people to boycott intel, or is it easier to manufacture open source processors for a smaller market more interested in security? > > >> Perfect is the enemy of good. If the spooks don't go after one > >> person because it would take more personalized resources than > >> simply catching them in a dragnet, that security has worked. We > >> don't need 'perfect'. We need 'good enough'. > > > > > > 'good enough' requires working hardware, not hardware remotely > > controlled from washington. > > No it doesn't. Good enough, in this case, means getting a bit of > breathing room for people while the geeks figure out how we back the > government off technically. Until they can't technically control every > single piece of hardware, at least make it as hard as possible for > them to control it. Yeah, but in this particular case I don't see how software is going to do any damage control when " the ME is capable of accessing any memory region without the main x86 CPU knowing about the existence of these accesses. It also runs a TCP/IP server on your network interface" > Sure, it's not solving the problem entirely but > you have to admit it's going to protect some people who would > otherwise get caught up in a dragnet. Their data isn't there anymore. > > Don't get me wrong, I am 100% behind making hardware secure. But we > can't be so focused on absolute security with no compromise that we > /only/ work on that and leave everything wide open until we have > absolute. Yes, agreed. But what seems to have happened so far is that the majority of efforts have been directed at the software side of things. > That's kind of like "well, we think the NSA might be able to > break TLS by asking for our private key so we'll just keep using HTTP > until we develop a way where having our private key doesn't matter". > You do what you can and then you refine it closer and closer to > perfection. > > Shit, I write a lot... > > Sorry :) no worries =P > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXZK1RAAoJEAKK33RTsEsVZP0QAJGSzHuvIDzoGJav/QG2eXOf > hgl8Q/D/0/xStelYBsx2Sq6y6RHzczFeI3LlJdAT3W/WkqtugSCRtTtUFY4sHsyL > gbRfCIkW2Yfg25z6fCr5iCp6rMqwEYlEy+H46tVsEizmGtYqVYo1jNaEsHMAzbbD > SwTZ+I2sByKRoc+ArLzNiuEyp/1qynxQStocFNjZuhyJi7ujaKxK5k3V6Lh2HBkt > dcNJngwJ7Ws4esIDDQ4DtzsNgK56GWMEt66GtUHGQaZxklB+QAwawZGgFpP2rHLu > hjH72ko0doGwoSX1SRVATneqofq7WCvR7k8bRTV2ipsgGKHOpfndT6UBldK94ukL > Tso2BOb7YVxgNIbz2BIOE4auJr9CNpQJSoaikoLkmQ1/IeYqqt7JAhdYR0VuBNbt > 5sFUq0LejAQYZQSNoPX/38tlz6t7+9VO4iVn2iWzNp052/S3UwLvZaH/n9cfjaNm > Hjhz0jebH2rzLdm3SlZr8F618luPuqgQg7HHNCdvm2MIlNc5oDKZOWhhfvvgDy1/ > q1wZPntscLdolM/VY1m4MZMOK219MEatp4lgNBxsChhKH5Op11LN2U6hUZ069Rgb > TL121QmP7JfmkbpehVONRbhhbou8bKsbcRvBe7ZDaS1kp950npNY8vJOjbpcINAX > ISgmOkyMy9JcdKhxwhOc > =DS8O > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From carimachet at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 17:41:12 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:41:12 +0300 Subject: Interesting Ethereum Dustup In-Reply-To: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: goldman sachs is everywhere fucking On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 2:11 AM, jim bell wrote: > > http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/blockchain-company-s-smart-contracts-were-dumb > > > Partial quote: > > Blockchain Company's Smart Contracts Were Dumb > 2 > JUNE 17, 2016 5:46 PM EDT > By > Matt Levine > There's a fairly incredible trial going on in London right now. The Libyan > Investment Authority is suing Goldman Sachs over some trades that they did > together. To oversimplify slightly, the LIA handed Goldman a pile of money > and signed some complicated contracts describing the circumstances in which > Goldman would have to give LIA money back, and how much. And then everyone > closed their eyes and counted to 10, and when they opened their eyes, poof, > the money was gone. It was $1.2 billion. Libya is mad, and suing. > The LIA has various arguments in its lawsuit, but none of them amount to > "Goldman owes us money under those contracts." The contracts specified a > set of functions that took inputs (mostly, the prices of some bank stocks) > and produced as outputs a set of dollar amounts that Goldman was supposed > to pay Libya. The specifications in the contracts are perfectly clear; > there's no dispute about how to read the contracts, or about how the > functions work. Everyone agrees that the total dollar amount produced by > the functions is zero. > Instead, Libya's arguments take the form of: We didn't really mean what > those contracts said. We didn't understand them. We were bamboozled into > signing them, overwhelmed by a "swarm" of Goldman bankers, seduced -- > literally -- by the bankers' offerings ofinternships and aftershaves and > prostitutes. We were unsophisticated, we trusted Goldman to look out for > our best interests, we thought the functions were something other than what > they turned out to be. > Whatever you think about those arguments -- my own views are complicated > -- they are definitely the kinds of arguments that are, like, allowed in > court. The contracts specifying the functions are important. > Ninety-nine-point-whatever percent of the time, derivatives contracts just > work: I pay you a premium for a call option, and you promise to pay me if > it ends up in the money, and if it does, you do, and if it doesn't, I shrug > and walk away. We knew what we were getting into, and we got out of it what > we expected. But every so often, people don't know what they're getting > into, or what they get out of it isn't what either side reasonably > expected. And when that happens, they go to court and argue about it. > Usually one side did well out of the deal, and argues that everything's > fine and everyone got what they expected; the other side did poorly, and > argues that something fundamentally unfair happened and the deal should be > altered. > [end of portion quoted] > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4280 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 17 17:45:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:45:49 +1000 Subject: American Ambassador to Russia in Moscow, Michael McFaul, gives a lesson to Russian students Message-ID: <20160618004549.GC3495@x220-a02> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/michael-mcfaul-reason-i-tell-people-im-canada-video/ri15040 At least this Michael McFaul fellow demonstrates why he was appointed America's US Ambassador to Russia in Moscow (besides imparting some key points about America of course, at least from the American perspective, which is of course good for children to comprehend - to be able to view another's perspective). From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jun 18 01:20:23 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:20:23 +0300 Subject: Interesting Ethereum Dustup In-Reply-To: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1699763299.5217887.1466205098347.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160618082023.GA688@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:11:38PM +0000, jim bell wrote: > http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/blockchain-company-s-smart-contracts-were-dumb > Questions and answers site about Ethereum on SE: https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/ (SE is on cloudfare). From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jun 18 01:23:34 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:23:34 +0300 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <20160618082334.GB688@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:29:17PM +0000, Mr Nobody wrote: > I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into when > using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also they use > your replies to train artificial intelligence modes > > https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/index.html#creation-of-value > > > Tor users helping google with image recognition lol > When over tor, some captchas with distorted images are so weird, I am not sure solution exists at all... Is it possible this to be on purpose? Or should I try to pass the Turing test? :) From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 18 17:08:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 10:08:48 +1000 Subject: the fall of the USA's Magnitsky Act (a massive conviction without trial) Message-ID: <20160619000848.GA20759@x220-a02> The Magnitsky Act is one foundation for the Western "taking it on faith" litany of assumptions leading to action which is disgraceful towards Russia, indicting of the West and its so called 'leaders', and facilitating the media to spoon feed the public with again more assumptions that Russian government/ Putin is despotic, does really bad things like stealing money from 'innocent ex-pat investment bankers' and arresting, torturing and murdering whistleblowers. "A lie will circle the world before the truth puts its boots on." But when the truth finally gets going, those chickens will come home to roost. For anyone who has bought into this particular thread of the Western regime, this documentary, when it's available, is going to be important to watch. The hysterics arising from the Putinism "Russia is not the kind of a country that extradites human rights champions. (Россия не та страна которая выдаёт борцов за права человека.)" can be enjoyed just that little bit more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putinisms The extent of the efforts at various levels and from various (Western) parliamentarians to suppress this documentary, leaves a bad taste indeed. The linked prior article about the first cancelled screening is worth reading too and sets a fuller stage (besides providing a text book case of the Streissand effect): http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/empty-seat-william-browder-once-again-takes-charge-european-parliament/ri14127 And this whole Magnitsky saga is highly topical in respect of a certain days of our lives opera occurring in other forums over the last week or so: "We heard about the inconsistencies of the Magnitsky narrative that Browder has peddled in all venues, and the eureka moment of the film maker that led him to change the message of his film mid-way through production into what ultimately became a scathing critique of Browder, and also a serious critique of the entire concept of applying personal sanctions against alleged human rights abusers without due process, as was the case in the compilation of the Magnitsky List." --- Advance Review of Devastating Film About Bill Browder Which He Tried to Suppress Gilbert Doctorow http://russia-insider.com/en/exclusive-advance-review-devastating-film-about-bill-browder-which-he-tried-suppress/ri15044 From Jens.Stomber at gmx.de Sun Jun 19 05:29:04 2016 From: Jens.Stomber at gmx.de (Jens.Stomber at gmx.de) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:29:04 +0300 Subject: good news Message-ID: <0000a32d142a$9953f539$de442419$@gmx.de> Hello, Here is a good news from our mutual friend, just read it here Cheers, Jens.Stomber at gmx.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2097 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tedks at riseup.net Sun Jun 19 20:16:13 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 20:16:13 -0700 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> Message-ID: <1466392573.14041.62.camel@riseup.net> Thanks for this piece of cypherpunk news, Zenaan. Quality content as always. On Mon, 2016-06-20 at 11:52 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > The West has not escaped fascism, and the Russian state is not > without its > many problems. > > We are humans, and we be in this world with other humans. > > Perhaps more people in positions of power will see the benefits of > benevolence in their localised dictatorial capacity, see the longer > term > benefits to all for actual community oriented thinking and action. > > "Be like ants." > > > > > Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of > the > Soviet Union > > On this 75th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union > the > Russians will once again remind the world that the Red Army saved > European > civilisation as well as Russia from the Nazis > > Geoffrey Roberts > > http://russia-insider.com/en/barbarossa/ri15045 -- Sent from Ubuntu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kurt.buff at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:54:08 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 22:54:08 -0700 Subject: Kropotkin -vs- Darwin. Humanity, Cooperation and Mutual Aid -vs- Egoism and Pitiless Struggle; Socialism/Communism -vs- Competitive Capitalism/Darwinism. (Russia -vs- West) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kropotkin said only one salient thing: If there were a God, we would need to assassinate him. The characterization of Darwinism as egoism and pitiless struggle is so odd as to be not even wrong, though it was popular. Evolutionary theory (and Darwinism) is about differential reproduction, not the Hobbesian war of all against all. It certainly admits of, and has been demonstrated to use, cooperation. Kurt On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 11:12 PM, Александр wrote: > Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution is a book by Peter Kropotkin > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evolution > https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1902/mutual-aid/ > > Written partly in response to social Darwinism and in particular to Thomas > H. Huxley's Nineteenth Century essay, "The Struggle for Existence", > Kropotkin's book drew on his experiences in scientific expeditions in > Siberia to illustrate the phenomenon of cooperation. After examining the > evidence of cooperation in nonhuman animals, in pre-feudal societies and > medieval cities, and in modern times, he concluded that cooperation and > mutual aid, and not Darwin's pitiless struggle, are the most important > factors in the evolution of species and the ability to survive. From john at johnlgrubbs.net Sun Jun 19 21:03:22 2016 From: john at johnlgrubbs.net (Me) Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:03:22 -0500 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame Message-ID: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-2-stomping-on-ioerrors-grave/ -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 261 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yui at cock.li Sun Jun 19 14:33:26 2016 From: yui at cock.li (Yui Hirasawa) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:33:26 +0300 Subject: good news In-Reply-To: <0000a32d142a$9953f539$de442419$@gmx.de> References: <0000a32d142a$9953f539$de442419$@gmx.de> Message-ID: <20160619213325.GC30307@Edelfelt> > Here is a good news from our mutual friend, just read it here > Got anything that I can read without javascript? From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 22:13:05 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:13:05 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: On 6/20/16, Me wrote: > http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-2-stomping-on-ioerrors-grave/ Indeed, further down the rabbithole it goes... https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=deepweb From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 00:28:54 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 03:28:54 -0400 Subject: Food for thought In-Reply-To: <5765CDC8.2070206@riseup.net> References: <6e1a4f9e1edfe0c73ddd16e23c75d08e.webmail@localhost> <20160617062644.GA18717@x220-a02> <5f2e3bc2696e2189a91799a46ed78d62.webmail@localhost> <5765CDC8.2070206@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/18/16, Mirimir wrote: > Still, I'm left with a poor impression of just about everyone > involved. I don't mean to blame anyone. But damn, the Tor community > during the past few years comes across as a soap opera! And the code > that came out of that soap opera is what people are counting on? > Seriously? > > But OK, maybe they "do good work". Soap Operas... funded by various interests, keeping you entranced and stupid since the 1950's. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 00:13:48 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 04:13:48 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: I don't know Suzie, but she is right. "... there are many, many more revelations to come." Some masks will be definitely removed. The future will be pretty interesting. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 210 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jun 19 21:29:45 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 07:29:45 +0300 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <1466392573.14041.62.camel@riseup.net> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <1466392573.14041.62.camel@riseup.net> Message-ID: 2016-06-20 6:16 GMT+03:00 Ted Smith : > Thanks for this piece of cypherpunk news, Zenaan. Quality content as > always. > Thanks for this boring response, Ted. You are a very good parrot, repeating himself every 3-6 months. By the way, a parrot, who never posts/writes something serious/"cypherPanki related" by himself (in the last years, at least). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1021 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 19 17:13:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:13:40 +1000 Subject: good news In-Reply-To: <20160619213325.GC30307@Edelfelt> References: <0000a32d142a$9953f539$de442419$@gmx.de> <20160619213325.GC30307@Edelfelt> Message-ID: <20160620001340.GI20759@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:33:26AM +0300, Yui Hirasawa wrote: > > Here is a good news from our mutual friend, just read it here > > > > Got anything that I can read without javascript? Looking at the email source domain cock.li, the list of recipients, and the lack of any depth in the content ("just enough intrigue to catch out the termainally sleepy"), you can be pretty sure this is a cracker or spam. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 19 17:34:22 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:34:22 +1000 Subject: good news In-Reply-To: <20160620001340.GI20759@x220-a02> References: <0000a32d142a$9953f539$de442419$@gmx.de> <20160619213325.GC30307@Edelfelt> <20160620001340.GI20759@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160620003422.GA13569@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:13:40AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:33:26AM +0300, Yui Hirasawa wrote: > > > Here is a good news from our mutual friend, just read it here > > > > > > > Got anything that I can read without javascript? > > Looking at the email source domain cock.li, the list of recipients, and > the lack of any depth in the content ("just enough intrigue to catch out > the termainally sleepy"), you can be pretty sure this is a cracker or > spam. As another, ironic example of spam, this just arrived in my inbox: ... List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 00:06:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: How to enable digest emails to End Users How to enable spam digest emails – [1]Watch the video [2]Gee eFf I MailEssentials # I modified this line to reduce their google feedback loop - the first three "words" are actually just three letters as one acronym. [3]How to enable spam digest emails in GFI MailEssentials Hi micle, Spam Digest is a short report sent via email to the administrator or your end users which lists spam email blocked by GFI MailEssentials. [4]Learn more on Spam Digest. In this video we show you how to enable spam digest emails in the product. [5]Watch the video now If you have any questions or need assistance during your trial, please call us at +1 (888) 243-4329 or contact [6]support. GFI MailEssentials Resource Center [resource_center_arrow.png] ... Notice there are many cheeky things going on, besides the fact that it was sent to a non-existent email address (I have not included that line, not wanting extra spam of course) which was my first giveaway. Then there's the extra cheeky List-Unsubscribe email header (and it was in a link in the bottom of the email too) - for all I know, this email could be an initial part of a spam sequence - this first email is just canvassing say 10 million email addys, to see who clicks on at least ONE of the links in this sort-of-reasonable sounding email "oh, these guys must have sent the email by mistake to me, looks like they handle spam, I'll click the unsubscribe link so they don't mistakenly email me again". Yeah right!! But wait! this list-unsub link begins with a hash of some sort, not just the (non-existent/ fake) email address to which this spam email was sent to. Again, by itself not necessarily nefarious. Next, the observant might notice the millisends on the date stamp, which does not necessarily say this is spam, but adds to the picture. Also, the name that this "letter" addresses begins with a lowercase, is misspelt, clearly is addressing at best an email address and not a person, and at best best, has been scoured since there is no family name. The content, if legitimate, is definitely spam - "Spam Digest is a short report sent via email to the administrator OR YOUR END USERS". Oh, it must be ok, I'm just an end user, my administrator must really want me to view this video. And finally, it is spam - it's neither appropriate nor legitimate for a spam filtering company to spam the users belonging to the administrator who installs and manages such a product to protect his/her users from spam - well, no administrator worth his salt anyway :) And so on and so on... May you have a lovely and spam minimized day :) P.S. It's really a damn good thing I'm on our side of the fence and not doing the low level dirty work of spam propagation - if I were me, I'd really hate being on the receiving end of the cunning I'd dish out. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 19 17:40:28 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 10:40:28 +1000 Subject: Like Comcast, Google Fiber Now Forces Customers Into Arbitration Message-ID: <20160620004028.GB13569@x220-a02> So, the endless anarchic public discussion on the benefits of private contracts has put down roots, starts to shoot, and our brave new world with such benefits begins. Wonderful to see how well educated humans do seize the day to bring forth some sanity to this world of corporate greed and selfishness. I have to add though - sheep deserve to be shorn. How can they ever learn any lessons if there were never any opposition to their self indulgent ataraxia. ----- Forwarded message from Slashdot Headlines ----- Like Comcast, Google Fiber Now Forces Customers Into Arbitration http://clicks.slashdot.org/ct.html?ufl=3&rtr=on&s=x8pb08,2khay,10sc,9bih,8wet,4hdj,ehhv Like Comcast, Google Fiber Now Forces Customers Into Arbitration http://clicks.slashdot.org/ct.html?ufl=3&rtr=on&s=x8pb08,2khay,10sc,kujb,7w4g,4hdj,ehhv >From the cover-your-arse department An anonymous reader writes: In Google Fiber's updated terms, the company now says they "require the use of binding arbitration to resolve disputes rather than jury trials or class actions." Ars Technica reports: "While the clause allows cases in... Read More http://clicks.slashdot.org/ct.html?ufl=3&rtr=on&s=x8pb08,2khay,10sc,669l,fbdi,4hdj,ehhv From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 19 18:52:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 11:52:52 +1000 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union Message-ID: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> The West has not escaped fascism, and the Russian state is not without its many problems. We are humans, and we be in this world with other humans. Perhaps more people in positions of power will see the benefits of benevolence in their localised dictatorial capacity, see the longer term benefits to all for actual community oriented thinking and action. "Be like ants." Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union On this 75th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union the Russians will once again remind the world that the Red Army saved European civilisation as well as Russia from the Nazis Geoffrey Roberts http://russia-insider.com/en/barbarossa/ri15045 From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 09:17:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:17:44 -0400 Subject: [Cryptography] Digital currencies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/20/16, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > Using as much > electricity as the island of Malta does to distribute the ledger is an > abomination. Far less than all the electricity consumed by the fiat system of the US alone... gov / fed reserve / bank buildings full of offices / datacenters / networks / devices, hvac, payroll, healthcare, vehicles, maintenance... all the electrons needed to make it go. Bitcoin, and any other digital currency, is likely highly efficient and becoming optimal implementations of whatever usable monetary and other features they provide. > Ultimately BitCoin is betting on the ultimate dotcom bubble, > the only value in the currency is that people want the currency. Someone have a rare known "thing" that others want, negotiate and trade for it. You're correct, and nothing could be more pure. The delusion that any fiat is backed by any "value" should end the minute you try to trade it for something of value to you from its issuer / participant brokers and discover them telling you to get lost at gunpoint, thus establishing its exact and formal value to both of you as zero. Particularly for any physical good. Then when actually trading with others you must also evaluate whatever issuer / broker party is doing with it, which at times in history is difficult to do, and such doings not necessarily always to your benefit. From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jun 20 08:28:46 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 18:28:46 +0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum* In-Reply-To: <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> References: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160620152846.GB844@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 09:00:24PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Debian fails to have any of: > - due process I am very disappointed by the quality of debian. They appear GNU utopists like juan's anarchism utopia -- with garbage source you can't make tens of hundreds of non-shit packages. The openssl drama borders with malice and at best is cheap social engineering of debianz IMHO. Not that closed source is any better. From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 20 19:04:35 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 19:04:35 -0700 Subject: what 'Tor' actually stands for - do you want a brown t-shirt? In-Reply-To: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> References: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5768A0B3.2000007@riseup.net> On 06/20/2016 06:04 PM, juan wrote: > > dingledine : > > "Also, yes, this mailing list has gotten out of control. We are > all distracted doing more urgent things, but I think we should > soon find the time anyway to proceed to the "clean up our > lists" plan." > > > boyce : > > "Due to the extreme amount of off-topic posting (centered > around a handful of users), there's much discussion about whether to > replace tor-talk with a moderated list" > > > > me to boyce : >> are you brownshirts going to 'moderate' the cpunks mailing >> list too? > > his reply : > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIoMfVNVx4g > > > Well, you started off with an insulting insinuation. Did you expect that you WOULDN'T be considered a Douche (a vinegar sour douche at that) considering you so amply spew? You know they have operations to 'tighten that thang up' so you don't spew douche so readily... Rr "Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business and eventually degenerates into a racket." --Eric Hoffer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 20 04:00:24 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:00:24 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum* In-Reply-To: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> References: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:36:54PM +0300, ja.talk wrote: > https://nm.debian.org/public/person/error > > Jacob Appelbaum > > Account name > error > > OpenPGP fingerprint > 043E 0E69 DD56 BA59 5905 8756 90BC 9192 B062 91B2 > > Status > Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 Debian is not, and never has been, about justice. Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to have any separation of powers - just a single public "community" executive/ power of authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy to identify appeal/ right of reply/response process. Debian is not about human rights. Debian is not about justice. Without foundations of human rights and justice, Debian fails fundamentally to provide an effective --long term-- foundation for effective community. Debian is about their operating system/ software distribution and packaging, and the whims of the developers who are the only ones who get to vote on anything. See Debian's Social Contract, which is all about (free libre) software, its utility and benefits, and even their "3. We will not hide problems" clause is purely utilitarian and software based, and has nothing to do about humans, rights, justice nor ethics! : https://www.debian.org/social_contract and Debian's Code of Conduct : https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Debian fails to have any of: - due process - separation of powers - right to respond - right to appeal - ethical foundation - principled foundation other than utility And before you leap in with an excessively quick "oh, you can respond, just send an email" - take notice, if it is not written into the foundation rights, there is no such right in operation in Debian! So take your false beliefs and read Debian's foundation documents again before embarrassing yourself publicly. --- Fundamentally, with only a "be excellent to each other" hippy ethos, tyranny can (and I say in the long term shall) reign supreme; despots can hide, well intentioned idiots can pave abundant roads to hell, and all without realising their mistakes nor the years of damage to their hailed "community", since that damage is predominantly unseen. Debian is no friend to ethics nor justice nor fundamental community building principles - nothing more than the grandiose principle of "Utility"! Yes, "free libre software" is indeed more useful than proprietary closed source software. You heard it here first. Debian? An excellent operating system for a certain category of individual. Just don't expect your idea of community to remotely prevail within the "Debian" project. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 18:04:11 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:04:11 -0300 Subject: what 'Tor' actually stands for - do you want a brown t-shirt? Message-ID: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> dingledine : "Also, yes, this mailing list has gotten out of control. We are all distracted doing more urgent things, but I think we should soon find the time anyway to proceed to the "clean up our lists" plan." boyce : "Due to the extreme amount of off-topic posting (centered around a handful of users), there's much discussion about whether to replace tor-talk with a moderated list" me to boyce : > are you brownshirts going to 'moderate' the cpunks mailing > list too? his reply : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIoMfVNVx4g From rsw at jfet.org Mon Jun 20 19:05:08 2016 From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:05:08 -0400 Subject: what 'Tor' actually stands for - do you want a brown t-shirt? In-Reply-To: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> References: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160621020508.GA31356@antiproton.jfet.org> juan wrote: > me to boyce : > > are you brownshirts going to 'moderate' the cpunks mailing > > list too? Juan, I like the cut of your jib, even when I don't agree with you. But what's with all this speculation that cpunks will become moderated? And how do you propose that a bunch of people who have no connection to the list will be the ones to do so? To be clear: I have no intention of moderating this list, ever. I'm too lazy, for one :) -=rsw From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 20 19:27:13 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 23:27:13 -0300 Subject: what 'Tor' actually stands for - do you want a brown t-shirt? In-Reply-To: <20160621020508.GA31356@antiproton.jfet.org> References: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> <20160621020508.GA31356@antiproton.jfet.org> Message-ID: <5768a5c3.57ede90a.d37c3.ffffdc51@mx.google.com> On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:05:08 -0400 "Riad S. Wahby" wrote: > juan wrote: > > me to boyce : > > > are you brownshirts going to 'moderate' the cpunks mailing > > > list too? > > Juan, I like the cut of your jib, even when I don't agree with you. > > But what's with all this speculation that cpunks will become > moderated? My bad, I didn't mean to suggest it will. > And how do you propose that a bunch of people who have no > connection to the list will be the ones to do so? That's the thing. I was mocking Griffin because he's in both lists. He might have some saying about tor-talk's 'policies', but he doesn't have any power here (I assumed) Apologies if I wasn't clear enough... > > To be clear: I have no intention of moderating this list, ever. I'm > too lazy, for one :) laissez-faire ;) > > -=rsw From rysiek at hackerspace.pl Tue Jun 21 01:37:39 2016 From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:37:39 +0200 Subject: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum* In-Reply-To: <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> References: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> Message-ID: <3124684.SC53FuBJkl@lapuntu> Dnia poniedziałek, 20 czerwca 2016 21:00:24 CEST Zenaan Harkness pisze: > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 01:36:54PM +0300, ja.talk wrote: > > https://nm.debian.org/public/person/error > > > > Jacob Appelbaum > > > > Account name > > error > > > > OpenPGP fingerprint > > 043E 0E69 DD56 BA59 5905 8756 90BC 9192 B062 91B2 > > > > Status > > Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 > > Debian is not, and never has been, about justice. > > Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to have any > separation of powers - just a single public "community" executive/ power of > authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy to identify appeal/ right > of reply/response process. That sounds like anarchy -- that's good, right? Juan, help me out here! -- Pozdrawiam, Michał "rysiek" Woźniak Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147 GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 931 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 20 17:38:29 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:38:29 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Question for those who say "Tor is pwned" In-Reply-To: <82802cd6-e80a-5fdc-4b17-6d89fac1dfe7@cajuntechie.org> References: <82802cd6-e80a-5fdc-4b17-6d89fac1dfe7@cajuntechie.org> Message-ID: <20160621003829.GI4433@x220-a02> > I see a lot of people talking about how Tor is pwned by the US > Government and is insecure 'by design'. I'm assuming that they know > this from a thorough analysis of the source code, which I freely admit > I haven't done. So, since you guys actually have taken the time to > audit the source and find the vulnerabilities that would allow Tor to > be so easily pwned, could you explain it to me and, preferable, post > relevant sections (or links to sections) of the source you're basing > your statements on? It's foundation design issues. And hardware level network issues. The code is generally (in the public conversation anyway) assumed to be "best effort, bugs fixed relatively soon after they arise". > I'd really like to investigate these vulnerabilities myself but the > code is too massive for one person to realistically audit by > themselves so links would be very helpful. Again, you will need more nuance than "has the code been audited" if you really want a relevant answer. There's a lot of research out there, and also logic and discussions which are straightforward to follow. Next, once you've done some investigation, you start to come across a few interesting factoids of note such as: - lack of network chaff is a fundamental limitation, and problem for privacy (for those who need it) given current known data collection capabilities of the "five eyes" - all network meta data, and there is evident (I'm not about to search the lists, but you only need to search 2.5 years (the time I've been watching)) resistent within "Tor project proper" to making this particular fundamental improvement happen; - arguments are put such as "oh there are no studies proving the benefits of network chaff" and the obvious "we don't have a budget for that (yet) but we encourage contributions" - persistent push back against bittorrent over Tor, including threatening offlist email attacks against those who suggest as much; BT over Tor would provide some chaff, simply by increase of volume, load, unpredictability of end clients, for example. - just watching TBB's behaviour has been interesting - some days, when I open up say 5 tabs for 5 different news websites using the "open all bookmarks from this folder as tabs" function, they all essentially start to load simultaneously, but other days/times, each tab loads distinctly sequentially, which to my mind is a dead giveaway that my current on-ramp is part of some sort of profiling (read 'deanonymising') - configurable latency randomization is another technical improvement which has been bandied around for years, and sounds easy to my programmer mind in practice, but has yet to see anything like the light of day There is ample room for an alternate dev team. Unfortunately, the US DoD are the ones providing almost all the funding, so they get to continue to control Tor development. If you are a big funder, start a whole new dev team, in a -completely separate jurisdiction (if that's possible). I know of an apparently well intentioned and productive man who may be close to ideal to set up and lead such a team :) Also, fundamentally we need a physical layer network which individual humans in their homes and offices, actually control - that is, shift the entire network to a "dark fibre" concept, where suburbs have random connections to one another, neighbours connect to one another with ethernet, wireless and more. If you don't own it, you don't control it. If you don't control it, it --will-- be used against you. This is a long term (say 20 year) plan, but it's the only long term option if we want to achieve anything resembling a genuine network of the people which honours privacy and anonymity of communication. By virtue of our capacity and existence and by the blessing of our cognizance of these things, we humans are with the right to anonymous and private communication. We have the right. I encourage you to work towards a world where many can live the right. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 09:13:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:13:42 -0400 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR Message-ID: https://www.crowdsupply.com/lime-micro/limesdr A Software Defined Radio for Everyone LimeSDR is a low cost, open source, apps-enabled (more on that later) software defined radio (SDR) platform that can be used to support just about any type of wireless communication standard. LimeSDR can send and receive UMTS, LTE, GSM, LoRa, Bluetooth, Zigbee, RFID, and Digital Broadcasting, to name but a few. While most SDRs have remained in the domain of RF and protocol experts, LimeSDR is usable by anyone familiar with the idea of an app store - it’s the first SDR to integrate with Snappy Ubuntu Core. This means you can easily download new LimeSDR apps from developers around the world. If you’re a developer yourself, you can share and/or sell your LimeSDR apps through Snappy Ubuntu Core as well. The LimeSDR platform gives students, inventors, and developers an intelligent and flexible device for manipulating wireless signals, so they can learn, experiment, and develop with freedom from limited functionality and expensive proprietary devices. From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jun 20 19:22:01 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:22:01 +1000 Subject: what 'Tor' actually stands for - do you want a brown t-shirt? In-Reply-To: <20160621020508.GA31356@antiproton.jfet.org> References: <5768924c.10a2370a.d4f48.ffffcc01@mx.google.com> <20160621020508.GA31356@antiproton.jfet.org> Message-ID: <20160621022201.GP4433@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:05:08PM -0400, Riad S. Wahby wrote: > juan wrote: > > me to boyce : > > > are you brownshirts going to 'moderate' the cpunks mailing > > > list too? > > Juan, I like the cut of your jib, even when I don't agree with you. > > But what's with all this speculation that cpunks will become moderated? > And how do you propose that a bunch of people who have no connection to > the list will be the ones to do so? > > To be clear: I have no intention of moderating this list, ever. I'm too > lazy, for one :) 0. Thank you for being light hearted, friendly, public and clear with this communication - it truly is a breath of fresh air compared to what some of us have experienced on the interweb "Communities". 1. Juan accidentally sent an email intended to me privately, to the list. 2. Juan was referring to tor-talk in recent emails, not cp, and there have been actual notification to that list that tor-talk may soon be moderated, and the authorities over that list are discussing such presently. 3. Like giving thanks and +1s, giving a "whoops, that was intended to a single offlist recipient, apologies" can be considered to add to the noise of a list. Sometimes, a "sorry, brown paper bag moment" email may curtail further noise. It's evidently a judgement call. Again, thank you so much for being so grounded in your communication. Best regards all, From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 09:22:26 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:22:26 -0400 Subject: PayPal enforces spy or die Message-ID: https://seafile.de/en/important-infos-about-app-seafile-de-and-licensing-purchases-through-our-web-shops/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11944011 PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as all our customers’ files for illegal content. They have also asked us to provide them with detailed statistics about the files types of our customers sync and share on https://app.seafile.de Since complying with this demand would violate German / European data protection laws (and also be morally wrong in our opinion) we have declined to comply with this demand. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 09:50:40 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:50:40 -0400 Subject: Russia Fucks Your Crypto Too Message-ID: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/06/20/2231208/russian-bill-requires-encryption-backdoors-in-all-messenger-apps http://www.dailydot.com/politics/encryption-backdoor-russia-fsb/ http://www.currenttime.tv/a/27809255.html A new bill in the Russian Duma, the country's lower legislative house, proposes to make cryptographic backdoors mandatory in all messaging apps in the country so the Federal Security Service -- the successor to the KGB -- can obtain special access to all communications within the country. [Apps like WhatsApp, Viber, and Telegram, all of which offer varying levels of encrypted security for messages, are specifically targeted in the "anti-terrorism" bill, according to the Russian-language media. Fines for the offending companies could reach 1 million rubles or about $15,000.] Russian Senator Elena Mizulina argued that the new bill ought to become law because, she said, teens are brainwashed in closed groups on the internet to murder police officers, a practice protected by encryption. Mizulina then went further. "Maybe we should revisit the idea of pre-filtering [messages]," she said. "We cannot look silently on this." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXb4Ka2ygwU The train went on and on ... From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 09:54:48 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:54:48 -0400 Subject: US Congress NSLs FBI to Please Think of the Orlando's Message-ID: https://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/06/21/0543212/invoking-orlando-senate-republicans-set-up-vote-to-expand-fbi-spying http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-fbi-emails-idUSKCN0Z7056?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell set up a vote late on Monday to expand the FBI's authority to use a secretive surveillance order without a warrant to include email metadata and some browsing history information. The move, made via an amendment to a criminal justice appropriations bill, is an effort by Senate Republicans to respond to last week's mass shooting in an Orlando nightclub after a series of measures to restrict guns offered by both parties failed on Monday. Privacy advocates denounced the effort, saying it seeks to exploit a mass shooting in order to expand the government's digital spying powers. The amendment would broaden the FBI's authority to use so-called National Security Letters to include electronic communications transaction records such as time stamps of emails and the emails' senders and recipients. NSLs do not require a warrant and are almost always accompanied by a gag order preventing the service provider from sharing the request with a targeted user. The amendment filed Monday would also make permanent a provision of the USA Patriot Act that allows the intelligence community to conduct surveillance on "lone wolf" suspects who do not have confirmed ties to a foreign terrorist group. A vote is expected no later than Wednesday, McConnell's office said. Last week, FBI Director James Comey said he is "highly confident that [the Orlando shooter] was radicalized at least in part through the internet." From spencerone at openmailbox.org Tue Jun 21 13:08:07 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:08:07 -0700 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, > > grarpamp: > https://www.crowdsupply.com/lime-micro/limesdr > A Software Defined Radio for Everyone > What is your vision? Wordlife, Spencer From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 10:41:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 14:41:26 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum* In-Reply-To: <3124684.SC53FuBJkl@lapuntu> References: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> <3124684.SC53FuBJkl@lapuntu> Message-ID: <57697bfe.5930c80a.ab8ce.7b29@mx.google.com> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 10:37:39 +0200 rysiek wrote: > Dnia poniedziałek, 20 czerwca 2016 21:00:24 CEST Zenaan Harkness > pisze: > > Debian developer voting base has public foundations which fail to > > have any separation of powers - just a single public "community" > > executive/ power of authority, with no formal nor rigorous nor easy > > to identify appeal/ right of reply/response process. > > That sounds like anarchy -- Well, if by anarchy you mean the opposite of anarchy? then yes. War is peace. > that's good, right? What I gather from Zen's post is that debian has some governing body wich involves 'voting', so democracy eh? isn't that 'good'? And the governing body, like any governing body, has the last word and THAT is exactly what statism is all about. Your state has the last word, you either obey 'the law' or die. THAT is your system, rysiek, the opposite of anarchy. And in reality Debian isn't completely statist, because, although Debian's 'government' seems autocratic, they don't force you to use Debian AND if you use it, you can change the software in any way you like, that being the principle behind free software, which in turn happens to be pretty 'anarchic'. > Juan, help me out here! Hopefully you'd find something helpful in the above tirade... > From kurt.buff at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 17:20:14 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 17:20:14 -0700 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll bet it's 20/20, after correction... On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >> >> grarpamp: >> https://www.crowdsupply.com/lime-micro/limesdr >> A Software Defined Radio for Everyone >> > > What is your vision? > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 15:03:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:03:04 -0300 Subject: PayPal enforces spy or die In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5769b94f.8fac370a.8ab56.ffffc8d0@mx.google.com> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:22:26 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://seafile.de/en/important-infos-about-app-seafile-de-and-licensing-purchases-through-our-web-shops/ > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11944011 > > PayPal has demanded that we monitor data traffic as well as all our > customers’ files for illegal content. They have also asked us to > provide them with detailed statistics about the files types of our > customers sync and share on https://app.seafile.de And who owns paypal...? > > Since complying with this demand would violate German / European data > protection laws (and also be morally wrong in our opinion) we have > declined to comply with this demand. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 15:05:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:05:15 -0300 Subject: Russia Fucks Your Crypto Too In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5769b9d2.c29e370a.77ed2.4ac0@mx.google.com> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 12:50:40 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/06/20/2231208/russian-bill-requires-encryption-backdoors-in-all-messenger-apps > http://www.dailydot.com/politics/encryption-backdoor-russia-fsb/ > http://www.currenttime.tv/a/27809255.html > > Russian Senator Elena Mizulina > argued that the new bill ought to become law because, she said, teens > are brainwashed She is right. It will become law because teens are brainwashed by fascists like her and her russian government. > in closed groups on the internet to murder police > officers, That is, justice. > a practice protected by encryption. Mizulina then went > further. "Maybe we should revisit the idea of pre-filtering > [messages]," she said. "We cannot look silently on this." > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXb4Ka2ygwU > The train went on and on ... From kurt.buff at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 22:27:52 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 22:27:52 -0700 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:18 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/21/16, Kurt Buff wrote: >> I'll bet it's 20/20, after correction... >> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Spencer >> wrote: >>> What is your vision? > > Rockin the coke bottles, bitches. LASIK, FTW. From spencerone at openmailbox.org Tue Jun 21 23:49:27 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 23:49:27 -0700 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <267d0112670089e1e8725736b6302e64@openmailbox.org> Hi, >>>> >>>> Spencer: >>>> What is your vision? >>>> >>> >>> Kurt Buff: >>> I'll bet it's 20/20, after correction... >>> >> >> grarpamp: >> Rockin the coke bottles, bitches. >> > > Kurt Buff: > LASIK, FTW. > I see. Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 22:18:02 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 01:18:02 -0400 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/21/16, Kurt Buff wrote: > I'll bet it's 20/20, after correction... > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Spencer > wrote: >> What is your vision? Rockin the coke bottles, bitches. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 22:35:41 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 01:35:41 -0400 Subject: PayPal enforces spy or die In-Reply-To: <5769b94f.8fac370a.8ab56.ffffc8d0@mx.google.com> References: <5769b94f.8fac370a.8ab56.ffffc8d0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/21/16, juan wrote: > And who owns paypal...? lol From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 21 23:29:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 02:29:23 -0400 Subject: Led By Dems, US Congress Now Orlando'ing Their Constitution Message-ID: https://theintercept.com/2016/06/21/democrats-war-on-due-process-and-terrorist-fear-mongering-long-pre-dates-orlando/ Crypto, guns, rights and process... all cannon fodder to these fucks. related slopes... http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 00:41:51 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 03:41:51 -0400 Subject: LimeSDR brings apps to SDR In-Reply-To: <267d0112670089e1e8725736b6302e64@openmailbox.org> References: <267d0112670089e1e8725736b6302e64@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: On 6/22/16, Spencer wrote: >>>>> Spencer: >>>>> What is your vision? >>>> >>>> Kurt Buff: >>>> I'll bet it's 20/20, after correction... >>> >>> grarpamp: >>> Rockin the coke bottles, bitches. >> >> Kurt Buff: >> LASIK, FTW. > > I see. I don't, damn amateurs wit lazerz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VNxmn0lNA From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jun 22 05:00:57 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 08:00:57 -0400 Subject: Phony Nakamoto applying for Bitcoin patents Message-ID: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Z61GM -- John From jya at pipeline.com Wed Jun 22 06:20:01 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 09:20:01 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: That's pretty damn good. Thanks. Although every nation, cult, gang, mafia has a similar rationale. At 07:41 AM 6/22/2016, you wrote: >The following is a viewpoint worth comprehending, if not embracing. > >This could be described I guess as the higher intention of a "Russian". > >I consider it may be useful to contemplate ones own version of >"principles" of honour, heart, heroism, worthy sacrifice and all those >other concepts fit for legend and foundations. How else can we speak into >existence a better future, no matter the label used? > > > >http://orientalreview.org/2016/06/19/the-russian-world-and-european-civilization/ > >(Alt: >http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/how-russian-world-differs-ideals-western-civilization/ri15115 >) > >How the Russian World Differs From the Ideals of Western Civilization > >The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with the >historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit >Anna Zhdanova >(Oriental Review) > > Image: A noble warrior > >Originally appeared at Oriental Review > >In recent years, both the Western as well as the liberal Russian press >have had a lot to say about Russian “barbarianism,” as if to contrast it >with European “civilization.” But a closer inspection ­ through the prism >of the heroic pages of Russian history ­ of the two groups’ moral ideals >and actual lives presents us with quite a different picture. > >For example, in pagan times, ancient Russians never worshipped a god of >war, although their contemporaries in Europe were transfixed by their own >martial deity, constructing an entire epic narrative around the concepts >of war and conquest. > > >After defeating the “infidels” (the Golden Horde), Russians never sought >to forcibly convert them to Christianity. In the epic poem “Ilya Muromets >and the Pagan Idol,” the Russian hero liberates Constantinople from that >mythological monstrosity, but refuses to become the voevoda (or ruler) of >the city and returns home. Ancient Russian literature does not include >tales of personal enrichment through conquest or plunder, although this is >a common theme in the Western canon. > >The hero of the “Nibelungenlied” is obsessed with his search for a hidden >treasure ­ the Rheingold. The main character of the ancient English poem >“Beowulf” dies, having beheld “the >gorgeous heirlooms, golden store Now >I’ve bartered here for booty of treasure the last of my life.” It would >never occur to any hero from a Russian epic to sacrifice his life in >exchange for riches. Ilya Muromets is not even able to accept the >inducement offered by the brigands he meets ­ the “golden treasure, richly >colored robe, and as many fine horses as he needed” (citation from the >Russian fairytale ( http://tchaykovsky.ru/skazka/murom_solov.htm ) “Ilya >Muromets and Nightingale the Robber”). He did not hesitate to reject the >path by which he would “be rich,” instead voluntarily taking the road on >which he would “be killed.” > >And it is not only in this epic, but also in the legends, tales, songs, >proverbs, and folk wisdom of the Russian people where it is evident that >one’s duty to uphold one’s personal or tribal honor is something quite >distinct from any duty to exact personal or tribal revenge. > >The notion of retaliation, as such, is absent from Russian folklore, as if >it were never part of the original “genetic code” of its people ­ the >Russian champion has always gone to war as a liberator. And in this we can >see the difference between Russians and Western Europeans. > >The Russian historian and philosopher Ivan Ilyin ( >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin ) wrote: > > “Europe cannot grasp us because the Slavic and Russian way of >contemplating the world, nature, and man is something alien to it. >Humanity in Western Europe is motivated by will and intellect. The Russian >people are above all guided by their hearts and imaginations, relegating >the mind and will to a supporting role. Therefore, the average European is >ashamed of sincerity, scruples, and kindness, viewing them as >“foolishness.” > >A European, nursed on the ideals of Rome, is secretly contemptuous of >other nations and desires to rule over them. Russians, however, on the >whole expect kindness, scruples, and sincerity from others. > >The Russian people have always enjoyed the natural freedom of the vast >space they inhabit gazing “in wonder” at other nations, getting along >with them amiably, with hatred only for oppressive invaders “ >Russians’ congenial relationships with their geographic neighbors are >testament to their sense of justice and mercy. The Russian people never >committed the same atrocities for which the enlightened Europeans were >responsible in their own conquered lands. > >The psychology of the nation includes a certain principle of moral >restraint. These naturally strong, resilient, dynamic people have been >endowed with an amazing ability to survive. > >This spiritual strength is also the basis for Russians’ renowned >forbearance and tolerance toward others. > >Continually invaded from all sides and forced to live in an incredibly >harsh climate, the Russian people managed to colonize vast swathes of >land, but without slaughtering, enslaving, robbing, or forcibly baptizing >any nation. > >Western Europeans’ policies of colonialism annihilated the aboriginal >populations on three continents and forced natives from across Africa into >slavery, while its cities grew rich on the backs of those colonies. > >The Russian nation, which also waged wars that were not purely defensive, >acquired, like all great nations, large tracts of land, but never treated >their conquered subjects as the Europeans did. The European people reaped >the benefits of Europe’s conquests and its cities were enriched by the >colonial plunder. > >Russians robbed neither Siberia nor Central Asia nor the Caucasus nor the >Baltics. Russia has preserved every nation within its borders, acting as >their protector, granting them the right to own land and property and to >practice their own faith, traditions, and culture. > >Russia has never been a nationalist state ­ it has belonged to all who >inhabit her. The Russian people were granted only one “advantage” ­ to >bear the burden of nation-building. > >The resulting state was like no other in the history of the world, and the >Russian people defended it with their own blood, willingly sacrificing >their very lives. > >Precisely because they have borne so much suffering and heavy sacrifice, >my people deeply empathized with the pain and suffering of other peoples >languishing under the Nazi yoke. > >And after liberating their own homeland, Russians channeled that same >spirit of self-sacrifice and energy into liberating half of Europe. > >This was an example of epic heroism! These are the stouthearted people >born of the Russian earth! And I believe that such a feat can be >accomplished even by a great nation only once a century. > >The patriotism displayed by Russian soldiers in the fields of the Great >Patriotic War met the highest ideal of patriotism ­ something >unprecedented in the history of any nation anywhere in the world. And I >will never agree with the media’s pronouncements about Russian >“barbarianism” vs. European “virtue.” > >I stand proud that our ancestors ­ our heroic ancestors ­ were so lovely, >, >steadfast, courageous, and resilient, and that we are their descendants! From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 22 11:47:41 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 11:47:41 -0700 Subject: AboveTheLaw - Tor hacks: The FBI Can Keep Its Code, Or Its Criminal, Not Both Message-ID: <576ADD4D.80203@riseup.net> U.S. District Judge Robert Bryan ordered the FBI to produce the full code of its malware. The government refused. I’m not making that up. A federal judge told the government to do something and the FBI essentially said, “How you gonna make me?” This is not good. I thought Apple had a really solid argument for refusing to help the government hack into one of their phones that was used by the San Bernardino shooter. The government eventually figured out how to do it without Apple’s help, but I don’t think a company should be forced to break its own system. Same goes for the government. I don’t think the government should be compelled to reveal its code for catching criminals. Don’t get me wrong, I do think the government should be compelled to reveal that it has a code or a hack or some malware that allows it to spy on us. I think they should have to explain in plain English how it works, and I think we should be able to have a national, public conversation about whether or not we want to the government to have this kind of power. But I see limited upside in forcing the government to reveal the actual code for its software, if it doesn’t want to and reasonably believes that revealing the code would do real harm. However, there are consequences to that position. If the government obtains evidence against you, you have the right to know how they did it. If the government doesn’t want to reveal that to you, well, then you get to take a walk. That might sound “unfair” to the vast majority of Americans who would trade seemingly all their liberties for a little enhanced security, but the Fourth Amendment is there to protect you from the government even when you don’t know you need protecting. All of these competing interests are coming to a head in a Washington case involving an alleged child pornographer. The FBI obtained evidence against Jay Michaud, a local teacher, by placing malware on a Tor site frequented by “dark web” users. Michaud’s attorneys would like to see the code used by the government to gather evidence against their client. Normally, that’s a pretty standard and reasonable request. Unfortunately, other dark web users would also really like to know how the FBI is catching them. Getting their hands on the code would be huge. Even if the code is produced in “sealed” documents, we can’t pretend that we live in a leak-free world. U.S. District Judge Robert Bryan ordered the FBI to produce the full code of its malware. The government refused. I’m not making that up. A federal judge told the government to do something and the FBI essentially said, “How you gonna make me?” This is not good. This is a borderline constitutional crisis. In response, Judge Bryan tossed the evidence against Michaud obtained by the malware, but allowed the case to continue. On Simple Justice, Scott Greenfield has written passionately about how Judge Bryan caved to pressure from the executive branch. (Judge Kneels And Welcomes His Governmental Overlords link) I don’t think the FBI should be compelled to release its code. I’m reminded of when the Allies broke the Enigma code, a story recently popularized in the movie The Imitation Game. Once we broke the German code, we didn’t stop every attack we knew was coming. Preserving the hack was more important than preventing individual losses. People died because we didn’t want to reveal what we had. There were consequences to our decision. Here, Judge Bryan should have tossed the whole case against Michaud. That should be the consequence of the FBI’s decision. Yes, that means one alleged child pornographer and teacher goes free. Yes, that is unfortunate. But if the FBI really wants to protect its code, then they should be willing to give up this one guy for all of the information they are getting through using this hack. It’s a difficult decision, but if the FBI and Judge Bryan don’t want to make it, they should get into the cupcake business and leave the balancing of liberty and security to sterner men and women. Prosecute the alleged criminal under the agreed upon rules that are there to protect all of us, or do not. There is no try. 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 21 19:07:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:07:56 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Debian Developer, removed since 2016-06-18 *Appelbaum* In-Reply-To: <57697bfe.5930c80a.ab8ce.7b29@mx.google.com> References: <86081466419014@web4j.yandex.ru> <20160620110024.GB4433@x220-a02> <3124684.SC53FuBJkl@lapuntu> <57697bfe.5930c80a.ab8ce.7b29@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160622020756.GF29643@x220-a02> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 02:41:26PM -0300, juan wrote: > > that's good, right? > > What I gather from Zen's post is that debian has some governing > body wich involves 'voting', so democracy eh? isn't that > 'good'? > > And the governing body, like any governing body, has the last > word and THAT is exactly what statism is all about. Your state > has the last word, you either obey 'the law' or die. THAT is > your system, rysiek, the opposite of anarchy. > > And in reality Debian isn't completely statist, because, > although Debian's 'government' seems autocratic, they don't > force you to use Debian AND if you use it, you can change the > software in any way you like, that being the principle > behind free software, which in turn happens to be pretty > 'anarchic'. Your assessment of Debian corresponds to my understanding. For those who just can't get enough of The Man "demoncraticly" imposing his collective will on you, you might be sad to read the following and find some empathy with one of the world's all time greatest democracy promoters, George Soros: Soros Complains Russia Now 'Global Power' While EU 'Falling Apart' Has the billionaire regime-change architect finally admitted defeat? http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/aww-thats-shame-soros-complains-russia-now-global-power-eu-falling-apart/ri15098 A dejected George Soros confessed yesterday that not all is proceeding according to his grand design. Photo: Business magnate George Soros arrives to speak at the Open Russia Club in London, Britain June 20, 2016 Attending a London pow-wow with fellow Russia-haters, the world's most infamous private "democracy" promoter had this to say, according to Reuters ( http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-soros-idUSKCN0Z629H ): Billionaire investor George Soros said on Monday he saw Russia emerging as a global power as the European Union collapses, in much the same way as the EU flourished when the Soviet Union started falling. Soros added that he felt "more than ever" that the EU's destiny hinged on Ukraine's future, speaking in London at an event hosted by the Open Russia, a Russian opposition movement founded by Kremlin critic Mikhail Khodorkovsky. So the future of the European Union hinges on a bankrupt, failed state run by oligarchs, Nazi militia, mafia and general psychopaths ( http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/shocking-confession-ukranian-dr-evil-bragging-about-killing-militiamen-donbas/ri15095 ). I'm sure the French, Germans, and Italians are gratified to hear that. Somehow I think they probably disagree. European nations have lost billions in trade with Russia since the introduction of sanctions - which they are apparently renewing ( http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160621/1041666675/eu-russia-sanctions.html ) once again at Washington's demand. If this is the future they will be tied to, all the more reason for the British to vote to leave the EU on June 23. But Soros hasn't given up on the EU dream completely - he wrote ( http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36582026 ) in The Guardian today attempting to scare British voters that going through with Brexit will collapse the pound. Soros is probably growing frustrated at the increasingly hard time he is having at building the new world order he wants. Russia's not cooperating, and populations in Europe are supporting EU-skeptic parties while American voters are supporting Trump. Here's hoping he meets continued disappointment. His misfortune is the world's gain. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 21 19:31:30 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:31:30 +1000 Subject: anarchic money options? Message-ID: <20160622023130.GG29643@x220-a02> Whilst Putin and Russia, BRICS nations and south east Asia in particular are working as diligently as they can toward a post-hegemonic world order, what are the anarchists planning? The P/E, debt to equity, national debt and private debt levels in the USA are simply not sustainable past 2024 mathematically, and most likely 2020 or earlier. That is, when you can no longer make interest payments, you go bankrupt, and if you're the FED printing as much QE money as you can possibly get away with, when you hit the wall, you take the entire currency with you. Earlier emails have linked to graphs which show this tax receipts vs US govt debt wall has an absolute end date of 2024, but most likely confidence in the US dollar will collapse well prior to then. So. Turmoil and upheavel when that moment comes. And some are well prepared to survive short to medium term food, water and shelter problems. Many are not. Some others have been and continue to put away tonnes of gold (Russia, China and other nations) whilst the sleepy democratic upstanding nice ones doddle along as though nothing's changed, like Canada who sold out 99.999% of their state gold reserves. The good news is that during such upheavel and crises, opportunities arise for very limited numbers of individual humans - mostly for those who prepared in advance. Now, those who are more than one can make more hay when the opportunities arise. To the hard core anarchists, the pioneers (not the settlers, and probably not even the squatters, only the hard core pioneers) - if you want to sieze the day, the best way to do so is to plan well in advance. My thoughts? Well, for broad acceptance of any political system of human interaction, broad acceptance (by those you communicate with in your broader communities) is of course required. Amidst the chaos and turmoil survival will dominate a human's every thought. Any advance planning, to be successful, must embrace the realities to come. Those who will be able to speak with clarity, having imbibed the understandings of the existing foundations (constitutions, amendments, money and its control), and considered well possible futures, may be able to inspire others to "a better future". But that can hardly be possible by sitting around hoping for someone else to do so. "Better" foundations must be practical, straightforward to the mind - you will have to communicate them with sheep after all, and ought be discussed and thrashed out and options and alternatives considered, well in advance. Community arises in interaction of humans, be it action, communication or contention (verbal and physical). Without powerfully simple yet constructive conversations arising between millions of people (USA has ~300 million population), then a new system shall be imposed, instituting babylon once again. And the sheep shall be shorn. What futures can even be communicated? We must start somewhere... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 09:15:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 13:15:04 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:41:23 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > How the Russian World Differs From the Ideals of Western Civilization Russia is ~100% western 'civilization' or culture. Ethnically, linguistically, religiously 'western'. > > The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with the > historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit Well, you could argue that the russian empire was/is more limited than the british empire, but that's about it. Since russia is pretty much western, it shares all the western (or global) political vices. Have you noticed how russia went from feudal totalitarianism (tzarism) to commie totalitarianism, that is feudalism recycled? Also noticed how the russians adopted a piece of garbage like the marxist religion, a product 100% 'made in europe'? I do think that the anti russian propaganda coming from washington and their european vasal states and pets is both stupid and dangerous, but idealizing russia isn't too helpful either. > Anna Zhdanova > (Oriental Review) > From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 21 20:17:13 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 13:17:13 +1000 Subject: the fall of the USA's Magnitsky Act (a massive conviction without trial) In-Reply-To: <20160619000848.GA20759@x220-a02> References: <20160619000848.GA20759@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160622031713.GI29643@x220-a02> > The extent of the efforts at various levels and from various (Western) > parliamentarians to suppress this documentary, leaves a bad taste indeed. The neocon's WaPo rag jumps in the Magnitsky ring, trying to defend the indefensible: Russia Mauls Browder - Jeff Bezos' Neocon Rag Leaps to His Defense https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/21/wposts-agit-prop-for-the-new-cold-war/ Also reprinted here: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-mauls-browder-jeff-bezos-neocon-rag-leaps-his-defense/ri15102 From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jun 22 10:43:49 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 13:43:49 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576ACE55.6070805@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/22/2016 09:20 AM, John Young wrote: > That's pretty damn good. Thanks. > > Although every nation, cult, gang, mafia has a similar rationale. > My take-away: "The notion of retaliation, as such, is absent from Russian folklore, as if it were never part of the original 'genetic code' of its people ­ the Russian champion has always gone to war as a liberator." In regions where the climate tries to kill everyone for months on end every year, "common sense" social behavior and resulting cultural norms benefit from a massively iterated sorting process; those who are naturally inclined toward cooperation and a reasonable amount of self-sacrifice tend to outlive those who are not so inclined. Given enough time this sorting process will affect the physical genome as well as the implicit semantic content of "culture." Bad weather makes good neighbors. I have been saying this since I was a teenager, having by then lived in a range of locations from tropical to sub-arctic. Of course there are a lot of other variables. Civilization so-called is pure poison to the human spirit as well as the natural world it exploits, ruins and discards in the name of Progress. The pervasive propaganda narrative describing Western civilization as the ascent of Man from barbarous savagery to nobility and enlightenment may be the biggest Big Lie ever told. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXas5VAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq5WAH/AyXQg8fzpfiKDZirGmNfUxP fltEI2xiTDrRyiRJ3v10c97e0u9k/XMhytXFci0WyOzc+e+xIDSm0xlGtGVAojWs 03ShXj7/ms/ZriLMzX0DBlPUnbjU5xyJE5ObgKaSzZ4+DqneZGoW+JHuq7CfSfVY DIthHitcl9Z+nS6N6I04KC2gWN4M1UJ+UWmVkQjEhRw/xxya0mESaiuV4t9fFMTh +GJJFj/Npd7CFgOTSsxzTeJe4LnYmt+8yYG8J6Z2CNaVPwPM5ZDgvWsoOhtjg6/T oc0dMjK0i+v6fSpD1cYSEJ9n3vsoo+ZDZzcrG3ryZsgO/fRJ4NMP/y5HKtphRhs= =+1vm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 10:15:49 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:15:49 -0300 Subject: Closed CPU's and Fabs Untrustworthy In-Reply-To: References: <1466057218.30688.4.camel@moonpatrol> <576322b2.51568c0a.24ec4.ffff9f7b@mx.google.com> <57637ddb.0b16370a.2f26c.22da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576ac77b.d92fc80a.ca205.24b9@mx.google.com> so after some basic searching (showing how limited my knowledge is) I learned that * sun designed (mass manufactured?) open source processors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSPARC * sun was eaten by oracle (I knew oracle controlled java, I never bothered to check why...) * fixed costs for having a modern cheap mass produced start at 2 million dollars? http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/7042/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a-custom-asic-made grarpamp? From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 11:34:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 14:34:59 -0400 Subject: [tor-dev] Freenet + Onioncat: Is the traffic welcome? In-Reply-To: <58ea0313344582c6a3d818ee3b8a61be.squirrel@_> References: <58ea0313344582c6a3d818ee3b8a61be.squirrel@_> Message-ID: On 6/22/16, konstant at mail2tor.com wrote: > I posted steps on how to connect Freenet nodes over Onioncat and Garlicat > for Tor/I2P. I am looking to scale it into an Opennet inside Tor with a > lot of peers: > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2016-June/039056.html > https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2016-June/039059.html Cool. You may want to review two recent threads regarding # bittorrent https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-June/041355.html # onioncat https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2016-April/010847.html (Some portion of these threads are on tor-talk, tor-dev, cypherpunks, etc so you'll need to search those for full context. They may span multiple months so you'll have to dig those out. And note that torproject's archives destroy useful things like cc, attachments, crypto sigs. Cypherpunks is intact.) > Is the extra traffic desirable in Tor? Reading asn's comment, I was under > the impression that you are interested in adding higher latency traffic > such as Freenet or mixnets for better anonymity: > https://blog.torproject.org/blog/crowdfunding-future-hidden-services >From the operations and UX side, as opposed to theory and design side... Some [officials] within torproject will decry traffic, and have even gone so far as to suggest they'll deploy coded countermeasures (which since the traffic is anonymous, and the code is opensource, doesn't work and kills someone else's good as well). In the end, just like video on clearnet, users and their traffic will come, and utilize whatever capacity and features they can, nothing you can do about it. A more qualified thought... I find ongoing intentional exclusive use of exits so people can basically get their trivial entertainment LOL's using filesharing apps such as bittorrent (or any other use that is known to tax networks)... to be rather immature to unethical. However I do see fine use in performing initial import of clearnet datasets via exits (if maintaining anonymity of such import action is necessary), provided they then cut their clients over to run exclusively within the anonymous networks. (In the case of bittorrent, that means disconnecting the split horizon network path to clearnet, swapping out clearnet trackers for trackers within the anonymous overlay networks, using PEX / DHT within those nets, and possibly managing running two instances over various datasets.) ie: Someone might import the latest opensource unix iso's via clearnet without use of exits, then cut and seed exclusively via anon overlay nets. Same person might need to import the latest political leaks and civil rights videos via exits, then cut and seed similarly. > Using both projects in tandem can finally realize the vision of FreeHaven. > You are the best at firewall circumvention, performance and accessing the > web, Freenet supplies users with censorship resistant publishing and p2p > services. There is a HotPETs 16 paper co-authored by George Danezis on > renewing interest in anonymous storage networks: > > http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/M.Isaakidis/p/isaakidis-p2pstorageservices-hotpets16.pdf I agree that linking the various overlays, features, services, and users together is generally a good thing. I tend to argue IPv6 for that since so many of todays apps and users speak that. However there's certainly other shims, proxies, and addressing stacks people can dream and code up, particularly for asynchronous / non-real-time messaging and file like storage services. Users also need to research and think clearly about any security and privacy impact using such links may have on them. From griffin at cryptolab.net Wed Jun 22 12:46:05 2016 From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:46:05 -0400 Subject: tor-talk subscription update Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 To whom it may concern, You have been removed from the tor-talk mailing list for persistent off-topic posts and I encourage you to spend your time elsewhere. Do not re-subscribe to the list. best of luck, Griffin - -- “We have to create; it is the only thing louder than destruction.” ~ Andrea Gibson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXaup/AAoJEAPPSgqzx5pjRBAH/jtlRw70yVDL9d62mgHPA3uo fiab3QDDjw04tKMbEGqwGEEHpOKn3nP6bynxGiwUi2Xsp7f3HHi1UD7c79n9cFsp RHqRNpYvLP81eABIpcany0Z2mmI9uVZs0ccirVMcq3YK10ADtG7zYujl6KBgCDWl M6FGWnmLEFa8vw24ia+6lEukARJ2nXTIFMrDisfbQ7bkJFSHaGGsenuy66yde2zS uECH1C/98f5RtZDv7NJJtTebbAPZMSnBQVYU3//ossTG7OFI60EPYAPH3xPdpS3/ zuocWagHiL1KYvqkoxCm3qWv7k9c7CvUhEJXgy4dhGQEljDdu3UsVsV8PPheDcM= =lKWK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 05:59:23 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:59:23 +0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <20160622121134.GP29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: *This article is not some amateur propaganda. This is truth, people. I speak in the name of the vast majority of hundreds of Russian people i know/knew very well.* __ It would never occur to any hero from a Russian epic to sacrifice his life in exchange for riches. He did not hesitate to reject the path by which he would “be rich,” instead voluntarily taking the road on which he would “be killed.” ___ The Russian champion has always gone to war as a liberator, not a conqueror! And in this we can see the difference between Russians and Western Europeans. __ Humanity in Western Europe is motivated by will and intellect. The Russian people are above all guided by their hearts and imaginations, relegating the mind and will to a supporting role. __ The Russian people never committed the same atrocities for which the enlightened Europeans were responsible in their own conquered lands. __ Spiritual strength is the basis for Russians’ renowned forbearance and tolerance toward others. __ Continually invaded from all sides and forced to live in an incredibly harsh climate, the Russian people managed to colonize vast swathes of land, but without slaughtering, enslaving, robbing, or forcibly baptizing any nation. __ Western Europeans’ policies of colonialism annihilated the aboriginal populations on three continents and forced natives from across Africa into slavery, while its cities grew rich on the backs of those colonies. The Russian nation never treated their conquered subjects as the Europeans did. __ Russia has never been a nationalist state – it has belonged to all who inhabit her. __ Precisely because they have borne so much suffering and heavy sacrifice, my people deeply empathized with the pain and suffering of other people. __ The patriotism displayed by Russian soldiers in the fields of the Great Patriotic War met the highest ideal of patriotism – something unprecedented in the history of any nation anywhere in the world. And I will never agree with the media’s pronouncements about Russian “barbarianism” vs. European “virtue.” __ I stand proud that our ancestors – our heroic ancestors – were so lovely, steadfast, courageous, and resilient, and that we are their descendants! __ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2443 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 09:34:41 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 16:34:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Phony Nakamoto applying for Bitcoin patents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1186534465.7497013.1466613281268.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: John Newman To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:00 AM Subject: Phony Nakamoto applying for Bitcoin patents >http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0Z61GM I wonder how much luck he will have getting patents.  My impression is that under European law, patents cannot be granted if disclosure of the invention has preceded the filing; American law used to, and may still, allow disclosure up to one year before filing for the patents.  Since Bitcoin is well over 6 years old, perhaps it will be considered 'disclosed' already.           Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1952 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 09:43:13 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 16:43:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: tools for enrollment In-Reply-To: <20160622123934.GQ29643@x220-a02> References: <20160622123934.GQ29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <805376823.7722774.1466613793173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Zenaan Harkness To: cypherpunks Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:39 AM Subject: tools for enrollment [...] >2) One foundation of any sane community is the right of a human to >   grow his own food and any other plant, for medicinal or other >   purposes (personal enjoyment, to trade with others, etc) >3) A document called the King James Bible (one random example), speaks >   to this fundamental human right, in a way which certain adult humans >  can receive as, well let's just call it "the gospel truth." However, see 1943 Supreme Court case Wickard v. Filburn.  Wikipedia:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn In what had to have been the high-water mark for justification of Federal Government powers, from Wikipedia: "An Ohio farmer, Roscoe Filburn, was growing wheat for use to feed animals on his own farm. The U.S. government had established limits on wheat production based on acreage owned by a farmer, in order to stabilize wheat prices and supplies. In 1941 Filburn grew more than the limits permitted and he was ordered to pay a penalty of $117.11. He claimed his wheat was not sold in interstate commerce and so the penalty could not apply to him. The Supreme Court stated "The intended disposition of the crop here involved has not been expressly stated..." and later "Whether the subject of the regulation in question was "production," "consumption," or "marketing" is, therefore, not material for purposes of deciding the question of federal power before us [...] [b]ut even if appellee's activity be local and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'"[4]""The Supreme Court interpreted the United States Constitution's Commerce Clause under Article 1 Section 8, which permits the United States Congress "to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." The Court decided that Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for animal feed on the open market, which is traded nationally (interstate), and is therefore within the purview of the Commerce Clause. Although Filburn's relatively small amount of production of more wheat than he was allotted would not affect interstate commerce itself, the cumulative actions of thousands of other farmers just like Filburn would certainly become substantial. Therefore, according to the court, Filburn's production could be regulated by the federal government." I consider the Supreme Court's 'reasoning' in this case to be insane.                       Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8275 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 12:56:50 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 16:56:50 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce Message-ID: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> Begin forwarded message: From griffin at cryptolab.net Wed Jun 22 14:03:52 2016 From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:03:52 -0400 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a > lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? Hello Cecilia, This is the relevant thread on tor-project: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html As you can see, the emphasis is on off-topic posts and not the members' personal beliefs. Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 messages filled with the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a factor in my decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. juan wrote: >> > I'm obviously re-subscribing right now. The fuck is wrong >> > with you. >> >> You're banned. Go elsewhere. > > so you work for the department of defense, eh shitbag? Too > stupid and coward to even admit it =) Senpai isn't going to notice you bro. From griffin at cryptolab.net Wed Jun 22 14:20:07 2016 From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:20:07 -0400 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576afebe.e5269f0a.71b77.2505@mx.google.com> References: <576afebe.e5269f0a.71b77.2505@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <36d9f104c9a8f4875cd576f3adc2c71a@cryptolab.net> juan wrote: > I asked this scumbag boyce if he worked for tor (that is > the pentagon) and the sorry shitbag denied it =) > > What a dumb piece of shit he is, and a coward to boot =) I don't work for Tor, nor do I work for the Pentagon. But hey believe what you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 13:42:54 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:42:54 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) Message-ID: Lovely sweet guy. Hope he is honest enough to expose exactly who were the people banned in tor-talk list. Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? Thanks in advance! Cecilia ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Griffin Boyce" Date: Jun 22, 2016 4:46 PM Subject: tor-talk subscription update To: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 To whom it may concern, You have been removed from the tor-talk mailing list for persistent off-topic posts and I encourage you to spend your time elsewhere. Do not re-subscribe to the list. best of luck, Griffin - -- “We have to create; it is the only thing louder than destruction.” ~ Andrea Gibson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXaup/AAoJEAPPSgqzx5pjRBAH/jtlRw70yVDL9d62mgHPA3uo fiab3QDDjw04tKMbEGqwGEEHpOKn3nP6bynxGiwUi2Xsp7f3HHi1UD7c79n9cFsp RHqRNpYvLP81eABIpcany0Z2mmI9uVZs0ccirVMcq3YK10ADtG7zYujl6KBgCDWl M6FGWnmLEFa8vw24ia+6lEukARJ2nXTIFMrDisfbQ7bkJFSHaGGsenuy66yde2zS uECH1C/98f5RtZDv7NJJtTebbAPZMSnBQVYU3//ossTG7OFI60EPYAPH3xPdpS3/ zuocWagHiL1KYvqkoxCm3qWv7k9c7CvUhEJXgy4dhGQEljDdu3UsVsV8PPheDcM= =lKWK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1508 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 22 00:45:39 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:45:39 +1000 Subject: Led By Dems, US Congress Now Orlando'ing Their Constitution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160622074539.GM29643@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 02:29:23AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://theintercept.com/2016/06/21/democrats-war-on-due-process-and-terrorist-fear-mongering-long-pre-dates-orlando/ > > Crypto, guns, rights and process... all cannon fodder to these fucks. > > related slopes... > > http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf Those in power see the democratic institutions as their tool to impose their will upon the people, and so they do and so they act. Except that people in each jurisdiction of relevance can learn to have powerful conversations with one another, and agree to act in unity on specific pathways, the same crap will continue. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 14:11:33 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 18:11:33 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <576afebe.e5269f0a.71b77.2505@mx.google.com> I asked this scumbag boyce if he worked for tor (that is the pentagon) and the sorry shitbag denied it =) What a dumb piece of shit he is, and a coward to boot =) From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 14:23:30 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 18:23:30 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Boyce, I asked to Roger about the tor-talk moderation rules weeks ago and did not receive any answer. I can send the message in private to you, if you don't believe. ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and emotional scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I deserve to be called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** I was talking about truth and lies, about judgements without proofs. I was a real victim in the past, I didn't tell lies. I know in my own burned skin what is being a victim of rape. Please, you can offend my intelligence, but it is really injust and pretty sick to call me "rape apologetics". I bet you will leave ja.group post lies in tor-talk list, Boyce. How about being *fair*, please? I can create a fake account just for reading tor-talk list, but I prefer to use my own name and be transparent, expose myself when talking about lies. So, the ja.group or any person can contact me if they really want to talk about the truth. Thanks for the answer, but you were unfair and really disgusting. Cecilia On Jun 22, 2016 6:03 PM, "Griffin Boyce" wrote: > Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > >> Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a >> lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? >> > > Hello Cecilia, > > This is the relevant thread on tor-project: > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html > > As you can see, the emphasis is on off-topic posts and not the members' > personal beliefs. Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 > messages filled with the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a > factor in my decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. > > juan wrote: > >> > I'm obviously re-subscribing right now. The fuck is wrong >>> > with you. >>> >>> You're banned. Go elsewhere. >>> >> >> so you work for the department of defense, eh shitbag? Too >> stupid and coward to even admit it =) >> > > Senpai isn't going to notice you bro. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2910 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 14:36:59 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 18:36:59 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <36d9f104c9a8f4875cd576f3adc2c71a@cryptolab.net> References: <576afebe.e5269f0a.71b77.2505@mx.google.com> <36d9f104c9a8f4875cd576f3adc2c71a@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <576b04b5.4702b00a.dae54.2adf@mx.google.com> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 17:20:07 -0400 Griffin Boyce wrote: > juan wrote: > > I asked this scumbag boyce if he worked for tor (that is > > the pentagon) and the sorry shitbag denied it =) > > > > What a dumb piece of shit he is, and a coward to boot =) > > I don't work for Tor, dude, you are the shitbag who does mailing list censorship for them (free of charge or not, it's irrelevant), hence you work for tor, hence for the pentagon. > nor do I work for the Pentagon. But hey > believe what you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 14:59:43 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 18:59:43 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi again, Boyce. I will re-subscribe and be on topic now. You can moderate my messages to be sure I will be strictly on topic, if you want. I am humbly asking to return because there are some interesting subjects there, about Tor Project in general. Sorry for being deeply sincere, but mentioning "ludicrous rape apologetics" makes really clear your beliefs and preferences. Hope to be accepted again. Cecilia On Jun 22, 2016 6:23 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > Boyce, > > I asked to Roger about the tor-talk moderation rules weeks ago and did not > receive any answer. I can send the message in private to you, if you don't > believe. > > ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and emotional > scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I deserve to be > called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** > > I was talking about truth and lies, about judgements without proofs. I > was a real victim in the past, I didn't tell lies. I know in my own burned > skin what is being a victim of rape. Please, you can offend my > intelligence, but it is really injust and pretty sick to call me "rape > apologetics". > > I bet you will leave ja.group post lies in tor-talk list, Boyce. How > about being *fair*, please? I can create a fake account just for reading > tor-talk list, but I prefer to use my own name and be transparent, expose > myself when talking about lies. So, the ja.group or any person can contact > me if they really want to talk about the truth. > > Thanks for the answer, but you were unfair and really disgusting. > > Cecilia > On Jun 22, 2016 6:03 PM, "Griffin Boyce" wrote: > >> Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >> >>> Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a >>> lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? >>> >> >> Hello Cecilia, >> >> This is the relevant thread on tor-project: >> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html >> >> As you can see, the emphasis is on off-topic posts and not the members' >> personal beliefs. Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 >> messages filled with the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a >> factor in my decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. >> >> juan wrote: >> >>> > I'm obviously re-subscribing right now. The fuck is wrong >>>> > with you. >>>> >>>> You're banned. Go elsewhere. >>>> >>> >>> so you work for the department of defense, eh shitbag? Too >>> stupid and coward to even admit it =) >>> >> >> Senpai isn't going to notice you bro. >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3685 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 15:13:03 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:13:03 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 18:59:43 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Hi again, Boyce. > > I will re-subscribe and be on topic now. You can moderate my > messages to be sure I will be strictly on topic, if you want. > > I am humbly asking to return because there are some interesting > subjects there, about Tor Project in general. Wow. Are you begging those shitbags, and promising to be an obedient sheep? Disgusting. > > Sorry for being deeply sincere, but mentioning "ludicrous rape > apologetics" makes really clear your beliefs and preferences. > > Hope to be accepted again. > > Cecilia > On Jun 22, 2016 6:23 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" > wrote: > > > Boyce, > > > > I asked to Roger about the tor-talk moderation rules weeks ago and > > did not receive any answer. I can send the message in private to > > you, if you don't believe. > > > > ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and > > emotional scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I > > deserve to be called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** > > > > I was talking about truth and lies, about judgements without > > proofs. I was a real victim in the past, I didn't tell lies. I > > know in my own burned skin what is being a victim of rape. Please, > > you can offend my intelligence, but it is really injust and pretty > > sick to call me "rape apologetics". > > > > I bet you will leave ja.group post lies in tor-talk list, Boyce. > > How about being *fair*, please? I can create a fake account just > > for reading tor-talk list, but I prefer to use my own name and be > > transparent, expose myself when talking about lies. So, the > > ja.group or any person can contact me if they really want to talk > > about the truth. > > > > Thanks for the answer, but you were unfair and really disgusting. > > > > Cecilia > > On Jun 22, 2016 6:03 PM, "Griffin Boyce" > > wrote: > > > >> Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > >> > >>> Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a > >>> lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? > >>> > >> > >> Hello Cecilia, > >> > >> This is the relevant thread on tor-project: > >> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html > >> > >> As you can see, the emphasis is on off-topic posts and not the > >> members' personal beliefs. Though having my inbox overrun with > >> more than 300 messages filled with the most ludicrous rape > >> apologetics was certainly a factor in my decision to ask for the > >> ability to remove subscribers. > >> > >> juan wrote: > >> > >>> > I'm obviously re-subscribing right now. The fuck is wrong > >>>> > with you. > >>>> > >>>> You're banned. Go elsewhere. > >>>> > >>> > >>> so you work for the department of defense, eh shitbag? Too > >>> stupid and coward to even admit it =) > >>> > >> > >> Senpai isn't going to notice you bro. > >> > > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 15:17:01 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:17:01 -0300 Subject: Fwd: Re: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Boyce blocked my address in his private e-mail. I've sent a message to another e-mail address. I was banned and can't subscribe again. Phew, hard times... :-/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" Date: Jun 22, 2016 7:12 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) To: Hi Boyce. I can't subscribe again. I was talking seriously about being on topic. If you search in my messages, you find references about my rapes. Sorry, I am receiving lots of messages talking about rape me again. And again. And again. I won't go to a Python meeting because my presence was public and two persons that mention the rape are surely Brazilian. Some of my friends are trying to discover their identities and I am being more cautelous than usual. Sorry, don't you think it was a bit injust call me a "rape apologetics"? Being sincere, it was disgusting enough for making me crying until now. Cecilia ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" Date: Jun 22, 2016 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) To: "Griffin Boyce" Cc: "cpunks" Hi again, Boyce. I will re-subscribe and be on topic now. You can moderate my messages to be sure I will be strictly on topic, if you want. I am humbly asking to return because there are some interesting subjects there, about Tor Project in general. Sorry for being deeply sincere, but mentioning "ludicrous rape apologetics" makes really clear your beliefs and preferences. Hope to be accepted again. Cecilia On Jun 22, 2016 6:23 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > Boyce, > > I asked to Roger about the tor-talk moderation rules weeks ago and did not > receive any answer. I can send the message in private to you, if you don't > believe. > > ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and emotional > scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I deserve to be > called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** > > I was talking about truth and lies, about judgements without proofs. I > was a real victim in the past, I didn't tell lies. I know in my own burned > skin what is being a victim of rape. Please, you can offend my > intelligence, but it is really injust and pretty sick to call me "rape > apologetics". > > I bet you will leave ja.group post lies in tor-talk list, Boyce. How > about being *fair*, please? I can create a fake account just for reading > tor-talk list, but I prefer to use my own name and be transparent, expose > myself when talking about lies. So, the ja.group or any person can contact > me if they really want to talk about the truth. > > Thanks for the answer, but you were unfair and really disgusting. > > Cecilia > On Jun 22, 2016 6:03 PM, "Griffin Boyce" wrote: > >> Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >> >>> Boyce, please, just pro-Jake people were banned or it was just a >>> lovely coincidence? How about a bit of transparency, please? >>> >> >> Hello Cecilia, >> >> This is the relevant thread on tor-project: >> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html >> >> As you can see, the emphasis is on off-topic posts and not the members' >> personal beliefs. Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 >> messages filled with the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a >> factor in my decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. >> >> juan wrote: >> >>> > I'm obviously re-subscribing right now. The fuck is wrong >>>> > with you. >>>> >>>> You're banned. Go elsewhere. >>>> >>> >>> so you work for the department of defense, eh shitbag? Too >>> stupid and coward to even admit it =) >>> >> >> Senpai isn't going to notice you bro. >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5692 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 16:07:47 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:07:47 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2016 7:16 PM, "juan" wrote: > > Wow. Are you begging those shitbags, and promising to be an obedient sheep? Disgusting. I don't know Boyce, Juan. He certainly doesn't know me too. Also you, my dear. I have no much pride. I don't care about "begging", if the reasons are important for me and other persons. I want to learn more about Tor Project and I want to do it using my real name and this personal account, because I use it for mailing and discussion lists. I have lots of accounts, but this is the public one, the less important account. I hate moderation, but I was and I am moderator in several lists, because I am considered transparent and everybody can contact me easily, Juan. My personal convictions about avoiding moderation at any cost, in a recent past, had a really negative impact in one of the lists that I used to moderate. A poisounous guy made a real chaos in the discuss list. It was a disaster because I knowed him in person and everybody knows I really liked him a lot. I wrote several advertising messages before put him in moderated mode. I never banned a person and he was the only person that I put under moderation until now. After being advertised about the moderation, he left a much more than 2.000 persons list, who always said "love too much", and offended me in several personal channels, including cell phone and messengers. I received dozens of cruel messages telling about my friends' impressions about me. After his disgusting messages for me, I was completely sure that I was right choosing to moderate him and his destructive e-mails. I was protecting the readers of the list, Juan. It was a proof of consideration and respect, not censure. A moderator can be an injust person and I already was victim of it several times, but the moderator role in all the lists is protecting them and their members. I am a moderator and already was under moderation. I know both positions. If you want, I can send all the references in private. You will discover that I know censure and harassment in a very intimate way, Juan. Lots of lovely traums to haunt me all the nights, my dear... Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2396 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 10:29:35 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:29:35 +0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> Message-ID: 2016-06-22 19:15 GMT+03:00 juan : Russia is ~100% western 'civilization' or culture. > Ethnically, linguistically, religiously 'western'. > You are wrong, my friend. Not religiously and not morally. Russia ​​ /ns is/are definitely not a western type in the real spiritual core of human beings. Russians are really different (not "special high race", but there is something really High and Great in this nation. In the soul of Russian people). ​​ > > I do think that the anti russian propaganda coming from > >washington and their european vasal states and pets is both > > stupid and dangerous, but idealizing russia isn't too helpful > >either. > Juan, my friend.... i understand your point, but the problem is... that you miss something else... you miss the "why is Zen such a great fun of Russia/ns/ of this "russkost" thing". it's difficult to express in words... one should feel it... it's the Russian real-core DIFFERENCE from other nations, especially from the Western nations... it's Russians HEARTS. Their SPIRITS. Their high standards of MORALITY and HEROISM. It's Russians attitude to Good and Evil...Their humane attitude to other nations.... I don't know how to express it, partly it's written in this article. It's not idealizing the Russians, but something else (i'm not writing it because i myself is a Russian, believe me).​ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2320 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 16:36:08 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:36:08 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> On Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:07:47 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > I hate moderation, but I was and I am moderator in several lists, > because I am considered transparent and everybody can contact me > easily, Juan. Your absurd and duplicious apology for censorship, hypocritically dubbed 'moderation', has been duly noted. Yeah, you censor people in other to protect your poor retarded audience. Touching. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 16:37:33 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 20:37:33 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576b20f6.0e8d1f0a.cef3d.3cb4@mx.google.com> "other" should read "order" From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 17:07:18 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:07:18 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2016 8:39 PM, "juan" wrote: > > Your absurd and duplicious apology for censorship, hypocritically dubbed 'moderation', has been duly noted. > > Yeah, you censor people in other to protect your poor retarded audience. Touching. No, they were not my audience at all. My ego never was not so pretentious. They were people trying to learn more about programming, electronics, security, better ways of buying components, even living in a corrupt country, full of injust imposts and taxes... A little about everything, Juan. Some of us talked about phylosophy, History, poetry... And all of the group asked to moderate that guy. It was not my decision. Democracy, my dear. I was just one of the moderation team, the only woman, and my work was avoing spammers and disasters. The difference was that I was knowed as moderator in public for being easily contacted for all the members of the list. The rest of the moderator team wanted to avoid problems in their inboxes. They were wiser than me and really coward in one person' specific case. Sorry, Juan, I really don't care if you likes me or not. It won't change my life or my personal convictions. Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1376 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 22 04:41:23 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:41:23 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism Message-ID: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> The following is a viewpoint worth comprehending, if not embracing. This could be described I guess as the higher intention of a "Russian". I consider it may be useful to contemplate ones own version of "principles" of honour, heart, heroism, worthy sacrifice and all those other concepts fit for legend and foundations. How else can we speak into existence a better future, no matter the label used? http://orientalreview.org/2016/06/19/the-russian-world-and-european-civilization/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/how-russian-world-differs-ideals-western-civilization/ri15115 ) How the Russian World Differs From the Ideals of Western Civilization The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with the historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit Anna Zhdanova (Oriental Review) Image: A noble warrior Originally appeared at Oriental Review In recent years, both the Western as well as the liberal Russian press have had a lot to say about Russian “barbarianism,” as if to contrast it with European “civilization.” But a closer inspection – through the prism of the heroic pages of Russian history – of the two groups’ moral ideals and actual lives presents us with quite a different picture. For example, in pagan times, ancient Russians never worshipped a god of war, although their contemporaries in Europe were transfixed by their own martial deity, constructing an entire epic narrative around the concepts of war and conquest. After defeating the “infidels” (the Golden Horde), Russians never sought to forcibly convert them to Christianity. In the epic poem “Ilya Muromets and the Pagan Idol,” the Russian hero liberates Constantinople from that mythological monstrosity, but refuses to become the voevoda (or ruler) of the city and returns home. Ancient Russian literature does not include tales of personal enrichment through conquest or plunder, although this is a common theme in the Western canon. The hero of the “Nibelungenlied” is obsessed with his search for a hidden treasure – the Rheingold. The main character of the ancient English poem “Beowulf” dies, having beheld “the gorgeous heirlooms, golden store … Now I’ve bartered here for booty of treasure the last of my life.” It would never occur to any hero from a Russian epic to sacrifice his life in exchange for riches. Ilya Muromets is not even able to accept the inducement offered by the brigands he meets – the “golden treasure, richly colored robe, and as many fine horses as he needed” (citation from the Russian fairytale ( http://tchaykovsky.ru/skazka/murom_solov.htm ) “Ilya Muromets and Nightingale the Robber”). He did not hesitate to reject the path by which he would “be rich,” instead voluntarily taking the road on which he would “be killed.” And it is not only in this epic, but also in the legends, tales, songs, proverbs, and folk wisdom of the Russian people where it is evident that one’s duty to uphold one’s personal or tribal honor is something quite distinct from any duty to exact personal or tribal revenge. The notion of retaliation, as such, is absent from Russian folklore, as if it were never part of the original “genetic code” of its people – the Russian champion has always gone to war as a liberator. And in this we can see the difference between Russians and Western Europeans. The Russian historian and philosopher Ivan Ilyin ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin ) wrote: “Europe cannot grasp us … because the Slavic and Russian way of contemplating the world, nature, and man is something alien to it. Humanity in Western Europe is motivated by will and intellect. The Russian people are above all guided by their hearts and imaginations, relegating the mind and will to a supporting role. Therefore, the average European is ashamed of sincerity, scruples, and kindness, viewing them as “foolishness.” A European, nursed on the ideals of Rome, is secretly contemptuous of other nations and desires to rule over them. Russians, however, on the whole expect kindness, scruples, and sincerity from others. The Russian people have always enjoyed the natural freedom of the vast space they inhabit … gazing “in wonder” at other nations, getting along with them amiably, with hatred only for oppressive invaders … “ Russians’ congenial relationships with their geographic neighbors are testament to their sense of justice and mercy. The Russian people never committed the same atrocities for which the enlightened Europeans were responsible in their own conquered lands. The psychology of the nation includes a certain principle of moral restraint. These naturally strong, resilient, dynamic people have been endowed with an amazing ability to survive. This spiritual strength is also the basis for Russians’ renowned forbearance and tolerance toward others. Continually invaded from all sides and forced to live in an incredibly harsh climate, the Russian people managed to colonize vast swathes of land, but without slaughtering, enslaving, robbing, or forcibly baptizing any nation. Western Europeans’ policies of colonialism annihilated the aboriginal populations on three continents and forced natives from across Africa into slavery, while its cities grew rich on the backs of those colonies. The Russian nation, which also waged wars that were not purely defensive, acquired, like all great nations, large tracts of land, but never treated their conquered subjects as the Europeans did. The European people reaped the benefits of Europe’s conquests and its cities were enriched by the colonial plunder. Russians robbed neither Siberia nor Central Asia nor the Caucasus nor the Baltics. Russia has preserved every nation within its borders, acting as their protector, granting them the right to own land and property and to practice their own faith, traditions, and culture. Russia has never been a nationalist state – it has belonged to all who inhabit her. The Russian people were granted only one “advantage” – to bear the burden of nation-building. The resulting state was like no other in the history of the world, and the Russian people defended it with their own blood, willingly sacrificing their very lives. Precisely because they have borne so much suffering and heavy sacrifice, my people deeply empathized with the pain and suffering of other peoples languishing under the Nazi yoke. And after liberating their own homeland, Russians channeled that same spirit of self-sacrifice and energy into liberating half of Europe. This was an example of epic heroism! These are the stouthearted people born of the Russian earth! And I believe that such a feat can be accomplished even by a great nation only once a century. The patriotism displayed by Russian soldiers in the fields of the Great Patriotic War met the highest ideal of patriotism – something unprecedented in the history of any nation anywhere in the world. And I will never agree with the media’s pronouncements about Russian “barbarianism” vs. European “virtue.” I stand proud that our ancestors – our heroic ancestors – were so lovely, steadfast, courageous, and resilient, and that we are their descendants! From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 17:59:32 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 21:59:32 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ugh, sorry for being a English grammar serial killer! :(( Please, the correct was: "My ego never was so pretentious." There are lots of mistakes in my last message, but this one sounds pretty non sense. Forget the "you likes" too, please. Ugly mistake! "You like", Juan likes, uff... :(( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carimachet at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 13:12:45 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:12:45 +0200 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> Message-ID: the state is getting more and more fear based every second On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 9:56 PM, juan wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:46:05 -0400 > From: Griffin Boyce > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > Subject: tor-talk subscription update > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > To whom it may concern, > > You have been removed from the tor-talk mailing list for persistent > off-topic posts and I encourage you to spend your time elsewhere. Do > not re-subscribe to the list. > > best of luck, > Griffin > > - -- > “We have to create; it is the only thing louder than destruction.” > ~ Andrea Gibson > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXaup/AAoJEAPPSgqzx5pjRBAH/jtlRw70yVDL9d62mgHPA3uo > fiab3QDDjw04tKMbEGqwGEEHpOKn3nP6bynxGiwUi2Xsp7f3HHi1UD7c79n9cFsp > RHqRNpYvLP81eABIpcany0Z2mmI9uVZs0ccirVMcq3YK10ADtG7zYujl6KBgCDWl > M6FGWnmLEFa8vw24ia+6lEukARJ2nXTIFMrDisfbQ7bkJFSHaGGsenuy66yde2zS > uECH1C/98f5RtZDv7NJJtTebbAPZMSnBQVYU3//ossTG7OFI60EPYAPH3xPdpS3/ > zuocWagHiL1KYvqkoxCm3qWv7k9c7CvUhEJXgy4dhGQEljDdu3UsVsV8PPheDcM= > =lKWK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2802 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 22 05:39:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:39:34 +1000 Subject: tools for enrollment Message-ID: <20160622123934.GQ29643@x220-a02> Trigger warning and Punk anarchist apostasy alert: the following question may be considered entirely blasphemous to punk tradition! Prior attempts to put the following concept have been downright clumsy, thus the following: 1) A significant portion of the adult humans in America might be considered part of the so-called "bible belt". 2) One foundation of any sane community is the right of a human to grow his own food and any other plant, for medicinal or other purposes (personal enjoyment, to trade with others, etc) 3) A document called the King James Bible (one random example), speaks to this fundamental human right, in a way which certain adult humans can receive as, well let's just call it "the gospel truth." The question: Ought we reject outright all passages in such a document on any grounds of personal preferred vehemence such as including but not limited to the grounds of superstition, historical abuse, unnecessary externalization of authority, or any and other such grounds, or ought we, for the purposes of communicating with certain of our fellow adult humans regarding such a fundamental human right (which right must be upheld for any community or society to call itself just, righteous, sane and etc) ought we highlight those particular passages in said document, in support of said fundamental human right? (If the latter, humorous slogans give rise to themselves such as for example "Be truly punk, get down and rock it with the King James Bible!") From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 22 06:44:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:44:10 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160622134410.GV29643@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 09:20:01AM -0400, John Young wrote: > That's pretty damn good. Thanks. > > Although every nation, cult, gang, mafia has a similar rationale. Seems those truly selfless in their nationalism (/ anarchism/ or etc) ultimately cede the actual seats of power to others. And those others end up being less than selfless. It's a dichotomy just begging to be resolved, perhaps ever unresolvable? When the selfless in service, retire to their normal average life, the joys, loves and heartaches of family for example, and the seats of power then wielded by those who desire such, the cycle of tyranny once again begins. "Who wants to be involved in politics? I just want to live my creative/ productive life thank you very much!" How the mind craves answers... the spirit, higher purpose From gmkarl at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 03:14:00 2016 From: gmkarl at gmail.com (Karl Semich) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:14:00 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms Message-ID: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Hi list, I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure spaces such as shielded rooms. I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such security being accessible for all people. - Karl, USA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 02:18:55 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:18:55 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> References: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> Message-ID: You are not indifferent and I really don't care about your opinion about me. So you think I am a "ludicrous rape apologetics". So what? Should I cry again? Sorry, I prefer not spending water and my time with a loser again. Get a life, dear. And if possible be raped. You will discover in person that it is really impossible to be a "ludicrous rape apologetics" after being raped. But you don't care about it. Your point was simply to humilliate a person in public. On Jun 23, 2016 4:40 AM, "danimoth" wrote: > On 22/06/16 at 06:23pm, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and emotional > > scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I deserve to be > > called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** > > Usually the right place to discuss these kind of things is in the > courts. Not some technical mailing list, otherwise your claims are > likely to be ignored, and you are likely to seem (even to my indifferent > eyes) a "ludicrous rape apologetics". > > D. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1405 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Thu Jun 23 07:31:14 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 07:31:14 -0700 Subject: Tor is anti-censorship software Message-ID: <0ac227aaadc17aac5d57ddd9ba20ea34@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Александр: > I tried to subscribe to the Tor list > (you know, this "anti-censorship" software list :D). > Got a message that i am banned. censored. > Like you, Juan, Zen, and a few others. > Banning people under the guise of 'Topic' is not going to shift the focus away from Tor's lack of assurances. Juan's comments, in particular, have been most valuable in pointing out the network's shortcomings in this area. These great people provide much of the value of this particular list; at least we still have grarpamp and Lara (: Wordlife, Spencer From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jun 23 04:45:02 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 07:45:02 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: Excellent initiative. Candidates: libraries, toilets, gyms, taxis, subways, buses, airplanes, schools, colleges, offices, factories, farms, deserts, oceans. Banned in all government, military, spy, facilities along with official secrecy. Banned in top level corporate offices and board rooms. Banned in finance, investment, SWIFT, banking. Banned in advertising, public relations, fund-raisers, political campaigns. Banned to leaders, celebrities, the famous, the heroic, award winners. Banned to opinionators, moderators, censors, redactors, media. Banned on cypherpunks except Hettinga who gets what he wants unfettered, unfiltered, uncontaminated. At 06:14 AM 6/23/2016, you wrote: >Hi list, > >I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure spaces >such as shielded rooms. > >I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such >security being accessible for all people. > >- Karl, USA > > From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jun 22 21:45:44 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 07:45:44 +0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Those who didn't betray Appelbaum are now banned? Those who ask questions and/or dig deeper that the average sheeple are now censored by the "ANTIcensorship" project/software? And the excuse is so touching.... "ludicrous rape apologetics" and "offtopic discussions". Juan are there any words than can describe such an ugly, cowardly and idiotic behavior? I can't find in my vocabulary. Nor english and nor russian. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 04:09:22 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:09:22 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> Message-ID: All Jake's friends and supporters are being brutally harassed in last weeks. It is absolutely lovely receiving messages talking about raping me when everybody says they are 'rape victims' and 'we need to avoid any kind of violence against women'. Uff, it seems a bad and sick contraditory joke, really hypocrite... Why do the people forget that I am a woman when it is convenient? And I was a _real_ victim, I didn't tell lies using an anonymous site and my networking... :-/ The worst part about everything is feeling really lucky, because Jake is receiving messages talking about killing him. At least, I will be just raped and, of course, only for correct and fair persons. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From skquinn at rushpost.com Thu Jun 23 06:33:33 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:33:33 -0500 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> On Thu, 2016-06-23 at 22:38 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I don't know Alex, but I do know this: I have an expectation (recently > dashed to smithereens) that a project such as Tor Inc, promoting > "freedom of speech, whistleblowing and more", should facilitate at least > ONE public communication forum (email list) which list has a strong > guarantee of freedom of speech, even though most or all other lists may > be considered semi or fully private club lists (only excepting the > laws which bind that corporation in its jurisdiction - a corporation > obviously cannot fail to censor illegal "speech" in its home > jurisdiction). I am all for freedom of speech, but a list started for a specific purpose becomes useless if most, or even many, of the posts are off-topic. The tor-talk list (which I do not subscribe to) was started for a specific purpose, and allowing the continued posting of off-topic garbage defeats the whole purpose of having such a list. I don't work for the US military or US government, but I support the TOr Project's and Graham Boyce's efforts to restore order to the list in principle. Those who have threatened to rejoin the list under other identities have committed a despicable and reprehensible act and deserve the ban from the forum they have received. I will admit that sometimes our governments in the US sometimes get it wrong when passing laws. We as a nation have learned from our mistakes and the history of the laws reflect this. To infiltrate an e-mail list originated from private computer systems with off-topic posts, and then to threaten to continue doing so despite being banned from that list is against the law in most states and I believe violates Federal law as well. It is the right of the Tor Project and the people behind it to refuse to re-publish off-topic messages. To that effect, I support the Tor Project taking legal action against any such offenders if that becomes necessary. Before anyone even asks, my beliefs are the same regardless of whether or not Jacob Applebaum is guilty of what he has been accused of. (I do consider it noteworthy that so far such accusations have only been made in the court of public opinion, not in any court of law.) -- Shawn K. Quinn From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 09:17:49 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 09:28:59 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:28:59 -0700 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623094838.GA15985@Edelfelt> References: <20160623094838.GA15985@Edelfelt> Message-ID: <576C0E4B.1040804@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 03:15 AM, Yui Hirasawa wrote: >> Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 messages filled with >> the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a factor in my >> decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. > So people not wantint to lynch someone just because of baseless claims > is now rape apology? > +1 I've yet to see ANY PROOF, or any authorities involved in this. ANY ORGANIZATION that had any evidence whatsoever that the claims against ioerror were true would INSTANTLY be in touch with the police etc. Especially (take note my favorite spread-cheeky asscrack Juan) if the org WAS affiliated with the federal gubmint -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From danimoth at cryptolab.net Thu Jun 23 00:34:37 2016 From: danimoth at cryptolab.net (danimoth) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:34:37 +0200 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> On 22/06/16 at 06:23pm, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > ** I was already raped twice and I do have deep physical and emotional > scars. Do you really think I loved my experiences and I deserve to be > called "ludicrous rape apologetics"? ** Usually the right place to discuss these kind of things is in the courts. Not some technical mailing list, otherwise your claims are likely to be ignored, and you are likely to seem (even to my indifferent eyes) a "ludicrous rape apologetics". D. From skquinn at rushpost.com Thu Jun 23 07:55:32 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:55:32 -0500 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623140817.GE6268@x220-a02> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> <20160623140817.GE6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <1466693732.5723.9.camel@moonpatrol> On Fri, 2016-06-24 at 00:08 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I don't know who you're referring to - I've seen no threats to rejoin, Graham Boyce alluded to it in one of his messages. > but I did see Cecilia respectful (if painfully submissive) request to > be allowed to rejoin under her own provisio then she keep herself > "on-topic". It seems evident she cannot even contact Boyce since he > has kill filed her. His inbox, his rules. > Would you agree that users who are about to be banned, ought be given, > say, AT LEAST ONE CHANCE to comply with a request to "stop posting off > topic, if you continue we will ban you"? Tor Project's mailing list, Tor Project's rules. That said, I am inclined to be nice and warn first. However, I feel no obligation to do so, particularly if a disruptive participant knows he/she is being disruptive and/or posting off-topic on purpose. > Wow. You're really hard core here. Intended or not by you, you are > coming across to me as pretty hard core fascist. If not intended, I > grant you may just be modern-classicly schooled. The US, its states and cities, and for that matter most of the civilized world, is run by laws. Yes, sometimes the people that make those laws get it wrong, but I believe at least with the laws regarding harassment and unauthorized computer system access, they got it right. That said, one should not need to read a law book or a holy book to know how to behave as a member of decent society. Threatening to rejoin a mailing list one has just been booted from, is not how decent people behave. -- Shawn K. Quinn From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 08:26:52 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:26:52 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: Quinn, Sorry, I respect neurotic people, it was pretty stupid, wow! Federal court? Hahaha!!! I do love North-American ego trips, hahaha!!! :D At least, a trial would be much more interesting and fun than another rape, yay!!! :D I simply asked to Boyce if I could re-subscribe again and told him what is happening. I told him I asked about the tor-talk list moderation rules weeks ago and had no answer about it. I told him why I think it was really disgusting and sick to call me a "ludicrous rape apologetics". I told him to put me under moderation, but permissing me to learn more about the Tor Project, reading the list. I promised to be on topic only. Answers? No, I didn't receive any answer. I don't know if someone told lies about it, but he didn't answer to my messages and I gave up. I said earlier that I won't waste more tears and time with a loser able of calling a "rape apologetics" a victim of rape. It was really unfair and cruel and, sorry, only a sick person makes this kind of thing. Boyce is the kind of guy able of telling lies to manipulate dumber people. Ja.group proved it is pretty easy. I know it can be really hard for you understand it, but some people around the world really like to avoid guns, lies and moralist hypocrite discourses. Ja.group members are still subscribed on tor-talk list and, as they did before, they simply will create another account to post there. I said I want to use my real name and this personal account. It is not hard to understand it, is it? :) Take care and keep easy with the neurosis, please. It is not healthy. Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1733 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 08:48:03 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:48:03 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <1466693732.5723.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> <20160623140817.GE6268@x220-a02> <1466693732.5723.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2016 12:00 PM, "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > > On Fri, 2016-06-24 at 00:08 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > I don't know who you're referring to - I've seen no threats to rejoin, > > Graham Boyce alluded to it in one of his messages. Oh, it was pretty obvious. So sorry, Quinn, I thought it was a neurosis of yours. It is Boyce's neurosis, instead. Or maybe just another lie. :P > That said, one should not need to read a law book or a holy book to know how to behave as a member of decent society. Threatening to rejoin a mailing list one has just been booted from, is not how decent people behave. My dear, I was waiting for Boyce's answer. I asked humbly after his offenses and had no answers, so I gave up. Sorry, I won't die or be sick because of it. I cried yesterday, I admiss, but just because it was really stupid calling me a "rape apologetics". Today is a new day and I have several perspectives for my life and my studies. I don't need tor-talk list, it is past. I will never use lies to subscribe there. My nature is really easy to understand. I used my real name and a public account in all the moments. I like true colors. And being sincere, probably I already read much more Law books and holy books (not only the Bible) than you and I think it is really complex to define how "decent people behave". I don't have this kind of pretention. Take care and be happy. Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1674 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yui at cock.li Thu Jun 23 03:15:31 2016 From: yui at cock.li (Yui Hirasawa) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:15:31 +0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160623094838.GA15985@Edelfelt> > Though having my inbox overrun with more than 300 messages filled with > the most ludicrous rape apologetics was certainly a factor in my > decision to ask for the ability to remove subscribers. So people not wantint to lynch someone just because of baseless claims is now rape apology? From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 23 10:16:55 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 13:16:55 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <576C1987.7040203@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/23/2016 06:14 AM, Karl Semich wrote: > Hi list, > > I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure > spaces such as shielded rooms. > > I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such > security being accessible for all people. > > - Karl, USA The word "honeypot" comes to mind at once. If "you and yours" did not set up, maintain, and control access to such a space, "secure" does not belong in its name. The presence of the word "public" also raises an eyebrow, as "no security protocol has ever survived contact with end users." Maybe I exaggerate a little. Maybe not. These objections do not rule out the possibility of something useful being accomplished, only point out challenges that will need creative solutions and constant attention. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXbBmGAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq5SoH/ROrJk0uPqWu/BQPVzqHge01 61xUt2wQ64jcwrlZIzuMUuhjoUkJGraUhkFp+mFbsEZtzEc2SyupO13WGaMKp+5F x2ar5sZP30bXFcOfHBHJPkwEyTYvKH+8Zfox+1H/W3q/JC2jkXfIb03rXxyvwN/S 78R7UrcSu6U36cp/1PXin6wRFMqb2zdWL11YAmcovUGYuym8yFVgXORy67A/0rJ9 W52P21ULnubYkEka9PJG4n7mw7QHkcCQZ7+MUpAOa7dHxl6F/ahJaiciVw3uFgLD a7diJj0rMwiGlI7CskXHsbBvLYGtzDLxX174/AIn7oqyqarSPDlwa85l8pyV2q0= =MG1F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 14:00:41 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:00:41 -0700 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Karl Semich wrote: > I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such > security being accessible for all people. > Attempting to compile such a list would be laborious and self-defeating. It would invite compromise of the enumerated "secure" locations. It would be more useful to compile characteristics of "secure public spaces", and heuristics for locating them in one's local environs. How can we tell - without special equipment etc - if a given space is monitored? If we land in an unfamiliar city, how can we correctly "guess" where to find a secure public space? On a recent trip I discovered a little 3' x 4' nook in the outside wall of LA's Bonaventure Hotel. Tho adjacent to areas of high pedestrian traffic, the nook was unspied by any cameras. No microphones or other sensors were visible nearby. A blissful respite from the otherwise panoptic surveillance of urban California. In this case we might speculatively take the hotel's Brutalist architecture as the heuristic for finding similar spaces. Although sometimes described as an aesthetically "fascist" style, Brutalist architects loved to create little difficult-to-surveil nooks & crannies in their buildings. Alas many of these spaces have been fenced up by the buildings' current Centrist owners. For example the contemptible disfigurement of Boston's magnificent Government Service Center building. What are other heuristics for finding secure less-surveilled spaces? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2170 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:29:40 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:29:40 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> Message-ID: <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' boyce. You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:31:03 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:31:03 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> <20160623140817.GE6268@x220-a02> <1466693732.5723.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: PS: - Quinn contacted me in private and he was not talking about me. Sorry again, Quinn! :P I asked him to apologize me and I was sincere, but I still think that using a Federal Court to judge a person trying to read a list and not using the same courts to judge persons who created that site is really bizarre. Here, the ja.group would be judged for three different crimes against (a person's) honor, at least. They and the Tor Project would spend a considerable amount of money paying civil and criminal indenizations. Being sincere, I really don't know who tried to re-subscribe using another account or if it was just another lie. You all know, everybody in the Tor Project loves "alleged victims" that never show proofs, hihi... ;) In private, some people said they didn't try subscribe again. I swear I did not, so I don't know if someone really tried to subscribe using threats or not. Juan and I had some private conversation yesterday night about moderation and I think he understands me better now. He doesn't agree, but now understands my points and my jokes about being a veggie girl, hihi... ;) The world is becoming pretty boring in some moments, uff... :-/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1280 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:40:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:40:31 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576c1ec0.c4501f0a.e1b3.41cb@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:33:33 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > I am all for freedom of speech, but a list started for a specific > purpose becomes useless if most, or even many, of the posts are > off-topic. The tor-talk list (which I do not subscribe to) was started > for a specific purpose, and allowing the continued posting of > off-topic garbage Virtually none of the posts were off-topic. They were all about tor, and as far as I was concerned tor's failure and misrepresentations. So, cut the 'off topic' fake excuse please. > defeats the whole purpose of having such a list. > > I don't work for the US military or US government, but I support the > TOr Project's and Graham Boyce's efforts to restore order to the list LOL - translation : I'm another fascist shitbag who supports the pentagon's fake anonimity network AND now OUTRIGHT CENSORSHIP. > in principle. Those who have threatened to rejoin the list under other > identities have committed a despicable and reprehensible act OK. That sounds like sarcasm because if that's not sarcasm you get the world prize in crazyness. > and > deserve the ban from the forum they have received. > > I will admit that sometimes our governments in the US sometimes get it > wrong when passing laws. We as a nation have learned from our mistakes > and the history of the laws reflect this. Again either that's sarcasm, or I'm - almost - speechless. > To infiltrate an e-mail list > originated from private computer systems with off-topic posts, and > then to threaten to continue doing so despite being banned from that > list is against the law in most states and I believe violates Federal > law as well. You are starting to sound like a really crazy piece of shit... > It is the right of the Tor Project and the people behind > it to refuse to re-publish off-topic messages. To that effect, I > support the Tor Project taking legal action against any such > offenders if that becomes necessary. Yep. You are even way more crazy and despicable than your employeers. What the fuck are you doing in a cypherpunk mailing list, apart from trolling and spying? > > Before anyone even asks, my beliefs are the same regardless of whether > or not Jacob Applebaum is guilty of what he has been accused of. (I do > consider it noteworthy that so far such accusations have only been > made in the court of public opinion, not in any court of law.) > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:43:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:43:31 -0300 Subject: Tor is anti-censorship software In-Reply-To: <0ac227aaadc17aac5d57ddd9ba20ea34@openmailbox.org> References: <0ac227aaadc17aac5d57ddd9ba20ea34@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <576c1f74.45c41f0a.878b0.488a@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 07:31:14 -0700 Spencer wrote: > Hi, > > > > > Александр: > > I tried to subscribe to the Tor list > > (you know, this "anti-censorship" software list :D). > > Got a message that i am banned. censored. > > Like you, Juan, Zen, and a few others. > > > > Banning people under the guise of 'Topic' is not going to shift the > focus away from Tor's lack of assurances. > > Juan's comments, in particular, have been most valuable in pointing > out the network's shortcomings in this area. > > These great people provide much of the value of this particular list; > at least we still have grarpamp and Lara (: > > Wordlife, > Spencer > Thanks Spencer. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:47:25 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 14:47:25 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576c205d.6640b00a.78560.47f0@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 07:45:44 +0300 Александр wrote: > Those who didn't betray Appelbaum are now banned? > Those who ask questions and/or dig deeper that the average sheeple > are now censored by the "ANTIcensorship" project/software? > And the excuse is so touching.... "ludicrous rape apologetics" and > "offtopic discussions". > > Juan are there any words than can describe such an ugly, cowardly and > idiotic behavior? > I can't find in my vocabulary. Nor english and nor russian. I have one word for it : American =) There are totalitarians everywhere of course. But totalitarians pretending to be the moral rulers of the universe? Only Americans can do that. From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 05:10:43 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:10:43 +0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> Message-ID: 2016-06-23 14:09 GMT+03:00 Cecilia Tanaka : > All Jake's friends and supporters are being brutally harassed in last weeks. > > It is absolutely lovely receiving messages talking about raping me when > everybody says they are 'rape victims' and 'we need to avoid any kind of > violence against women'. > > Uff, it seems a bad and sick contraditory joke, really hypocrite... Why do > the people forget that I am a woman when it is convenient? And I was a > _real_ victim, I didn't tell lies using an anonymous site and my > networking... :-/ > > The worst part about everything is feeling really lucky, because Jake is > receiving messages talking about killing him. At least, I will be just > raped and, of course, only for correct and fair persons. Cecilia, STOP! Please STOP! Stop groveling. It's not about some f*cken ego i'm talking about with you, but a man/woman should have some self respect! Don't you get that they ENJOY your humiliation?! And IT IS a self-humiliation, most of the things you are writing here in the past 24 hours. And what for, Cecilia? They will "get it", say sorry and bring you back to the tor-list?! ! ____ Also you should understand that this BAN is not a personal decision by "x", but a collective decision by the pseudo leaders of the whole tor community. ____ I tried to subscribe to the Tor list (you know, this "anti-censorship" software list :D). Got a message that i am banned. censored. Like you, Juan, Zen and a few others. As i already said on the list a few days ago, what do you expect from scums (calling themselves the backbone of the "tor community"), that create slander and/or scums who believe in it at once -> thus BETRAYING Jacob Appelbaum = BETRAYING one of their Leaders and/or Friends?! And this betrayal is related to the 90% of the silent cowards of the tor community too. Those that "aboooove" the mud. Those who write nothing on this topic OR write political-correct shit. yeah. How convenient it is... viewing from the "safe" side when your brother/Leader is being brutally crucified, right? _____ O.k. So now, the great censors/pseudo leaders of the Tor community will stay with a. notorious bastards + b. cowardly sheeple, that never ask nor say inconvenient questions or things. (don't know whether "a" or "b" is more disgusting) This act of the "ban" (with such beautiful' causes) just proves one more time that we were right all the way. Jacob Appelbaum IS innocent. Ban us or not, f*ckers. . _____ Cecilia, send this message to Jacob, please. He must SEE (-> know and feel) that he is not alone in this ugly and unfair war against him! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 11:15:23 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:15:23 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576c26eb.e701b00a.58eed.5168@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:26:52 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Quinn, > > Sorry, I respect neurotic people, it was pretty stupid, wow! Federal > court? Hahaha!!! I do love North-American ego trips, hahaha!!! :D The guy is either out of his fucking mind, or royally trolling us. > > At least, a trial would be much more interesting and fun than another > rape, yay!!! :D +1 for dark humour From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 11:37:11 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:37:11 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:27:46 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > There is room in the world for private or semi-private clubs where the > democracy of the club prevails. The benefit of this over capital-D > democracy, as Juan has succinctly pointed out wrt the Debian example, > is that no one HAS to join that club. I don't HAVE to die for the > cause of Debian, and on top of it, I can fork as much of the code and > do with it as I want/ am able. Yes, but Cecilia and I were talking about censorship in tor-talk. Although there may be parallels with linux distributions or private clubs, this case is purely a free speech case. Cecilia said 'moderation' (that is censorship) was almost always bad, but sometimes 'justified'(or something like that). Given the 'context' and as far as I'm concerned, Cecilia was saying that banning all the people that tor-fascists banned was 'justified' 'ok' or whatever. By the way, Cecilia's 'argument' is pretty much self-defeating. If censorship is OK 'sometimes', then she can't complain about being censored 'sometimes', like 'this' time. > > Now, for foundations for robust broader "community"/ national > "society", this is another matter entirely - we need fundamental > human rights to be respected very strongly, for a strong society > potential. Yes. > > We need the right to create and live "hard core free speech" forums, > we need "the right to free and anonymous travel on the commons", we > need these and more! > Yes. > And having strong foundations does not remove the right for small/ > medium or large groups to form their own (semi) private clubs (if > they're useful for you, healing for others, comforting for some, go > for it, create as many private clubs as your heart desires). > > "Strong public rights, is not contradictory to private clubs." Well, if we had mechanisms for 'public' free speech then private censorship might be more tolerable. But right now we have the worst of both worlds. Public and private censorship. As to the so called tor-project, it is a 'public' project in more than one sense. It's funded by 'public'(stolen) money, it's 'open source', it can be used by anyone, and it's a MILITARY project of the US military, which happens to be invading and has military bases in tens of countries all over the world. All the people being attacked by the US military are an unwilling party to the United States Private Club. > Juan, I'd like your thoughts on this proposition. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 12:38:39 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:38:39 -0400 Subject: [tor-dev] Freenet + Onioncat: Is the traffic welcome? In-Reply-To: <3ac522f3cceb8cd72a4f2dbd356c973e.squirrel@_> References: <58ea0313344582c6a3d818ee3b8a61be.squirrel@_> <3ac522f3cceb8cd72a4f2dbd356c973e.squirrel@_> Message-ID: On 6/22/16, konstant at mail2tor.com wrote: > I want to be clear about a couple of things. I am not looking to defy the > wishes of Tor developers and relay contributors. I hope to get their views > on the matter. Should they explicitly refuse, I will look at I2P. When I ran, donated, managed relays... only wanted all of what I paid for to be consumed. "Wished" it would be in alignment with certain ideals, but realized that's not reality. For more and different opinions from relays, you might want to post to tor-relays@ referencing the archive url to this thread. > Second, my idea does not touch Exit bandwidth at all. We will only deploy > hidden services. Yeah, it's freenet over tor. Makes for an interesting definition of hidden service. Don't forget to add around 1000+ ms latency. > Wasting resources is abusive. However, comparing bittorrent traffic to > Freenet doesn't do it justice. Freenet is used by dissidents for freedom > of speech and publishing small static files like blogs, not to share gigs > of media files. Anonymous uncensorable overlay networks, are "used" by whoever, for whatever, limited only by the techinical and practical capabilities of each network. There are many "gigs of media files" being shared over freenet and other nets by many happy and even wasteful users. This fact understandably burns the britches of those who intend their network to be used only for some other purposes. It happens. There seems to be ongoing and growing interest around the world in overlay nets and parallel wire[less] 'guerilla' nets, and lots of room for improved and new code and models. No worries here. > [arma] the main rule is that if you're going to add traffic to tor, run some relays to match > [arma] for hidden services, that's 1MB/s of traffic onto 6 places, so 6MB/s This has always been my position. Each user of these "free" community powered networks has an impact. For some nets this has readily calculable minimums, like tor and its 6x minimum for exclusively non-exit (HS) use. Other nets or usage models may be roughly estimated. Therefore each user of such networks should know / learn the impact for their respective network. And should realize that they are in a way obligated to return the resources they consume, as otherwise their network will not have headroom and their own experience will go downhill fast. > Freenet has 10KiB/s minimum bandwidth requirement. Note that the correct form for engineering, and apps interfacing at the level of, network traffic rates... is bits (b), not bytes (B), and decimal prefixes, not binary prefixes. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 11:48:14 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:48:14 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I would love to see you and Rayzer interacting in person, Juan. I think it's true love! :D <3 :D <3 Hmm... Now, I don't have money enough to organize a little cpunk party, but I will keep the idea in mind. So, I could kick you in person, Juan. Lovely kicks, with tenderness, respect, consideration and all my strenght, haha!! ;D Also talking about love, several of my personal friends are North-Americans, Juan. I love and respect them a lot and I would die for some of them right now, if necessary. Ex-boyfriend included, hihi! :-) I make my jokes about North-American ego trips, but it is just a fool cliché to annoy some few persons. In general, I really love them. There are lots of good people in all the countries, my dear. You, for example, are Argentine and I love you, hahaha!! Sorry, Juan, Brazilian stupid joke, hahaha!!! ;D Now you have the right of kicking me very strongly too. If we meet someday, we can take a pic holding onions and bacon before kicking each other, hahaha!! #soccerfeelings :D Take care and have a lovely day, dear! :* Cecilia PS: - A trial means being f*cked like in a rape, my dear Juan, but I think they won't beat me up or burn me with cigarettes in a court. It's a better option for me, less painful, ugh! :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1397 bytes Desc: not available URL: From felix at tribut.de Thu Jun 23 06:50:51 2016 From: felix at tribut.de (Felix Eckhofer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:50:51 +0200 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160623131400.GD6268@x220-a02> References: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> <20160623131400.GD6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <58f276fa7f71bc7dddc112e3ce2a5613@tribut.de> Hey. Am 23.06.2016 15:14, schrieb Zenaan Harkness: > Cecilia, it is amazing to watch the intensity of this campaign - all > ja.talk repostings to the tor-talk list were allowed, but your > responses, which actually came from personal experience, have been used > as grounds to completely ban you from tor-talk. ja.talk was also removed: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-June/000459.html felix From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 12:24:42 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:24:42 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2016 3:42 PM, "juan" wrote: > Cecilia said 'moderation' (that is censorship) was almost always bad, but sometimes 'justified'(or something like that). > > Given the 'context' and as far as I'm concerned, Cecilia was saying that banning all the people that tor-fascists banned was 'justified' 'ok' or whatever. Hey, I did not say it at all, hard headed Juan! :P But it is their list and their rules, being unjust or not. If they want to censor their list in a dishonest and stupid way, using bad excuses, they will lose credibility, respect and collaborators. Their problems, not mine. > By the way, Cecilia's 'argument' is pretty much self-defeating. If censorship is OK 'sometimes', then she can't complain about being censored 'sometimes', like 'this' time. Sorry, I wanted to read the list and don't care about following rules to do it, if necessary. Social rules, for example: - In the Summer, I really prefer to be nude all the time, but I use clothes or I will be arrested. :-/ Reading the tor-talk list is not possible because my personal positions are different? Ok, what could I wait of a guy who can't simply admiss that was stupid, limited and cruel for calling a raped woman, a "ludicrous rape apologetics". I know it is a terrible bad karma, but I would love to graffitti these exact words in his house. So Boyce would be able to understand how heavy and offensive were his words. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1725 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 12:35:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:35:31 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:24:42 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jun 23, 2016 3:42 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > Cecilia said 'moderation' (that is censorship) was almost > > always > bad, but sometimes 'justified'(or something like that). > > > > Given the 'context' and as far as I'm concerned, Cecilia was > saying that banning all the people that tor-fascists banned was > 'justified' 'ok' or whatever. > > Hey, I did not say it at all, hard headed Juan! :P > > But it is their list and their rules, being unjust or not. It's not their list, it's funded with stolen money. And even if it was their list, that doesn't give them any divine rule-making authority. > If they > want to censor their list in a dishonest and stupid way, using bad > excuses, they will lose credibility, respect and collaborators. > Their problems, not mine. That's true. The fact that they are now showing their true fascist colors is a good thing. > > > By the way, Cecilia's 'argument' is pretty much > > self-defeating. > If censorship is OK 'sometimes', then she can't complain about being > censored 'sometimes', like 'this' time. > > Sorry, I wanted to read the list And you can read the list. https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/ You don't need to be subscribed to read it. > and don't care about following rules > to do it, if necessary. Social rules, for example: - In the Summer, > I really prefer to be nude all the time, but I use clothes or I will > be arrested. :-/ > > Reading the tor-talk list is not possible because my personal > positions are different? Ok, what could I wait of a guy who can't > simply admiss that was stupid, limited and cruel for calling a raped > woman, a "ludicrous rape apologetics". > > I know it is a terrible bad karma, but I would love to graffitti these > exact words in his house. So Boyce would be able to understand how > heavy and offensive were his words. boyce is just a left-wing fascist. It's now fashionable among left-wing fascists to pretend to care oh so much about women, while ignoring cases where women are actually hurt. From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jun 23 14:33:31 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:33:31 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: Portable SCIFs have been around for decades, tent-size and desk-top: http://cryptome.org/bema-se.htm More compact and emanation-resistant now. Carry your own. Entrepreneurs would offer curb-side service, like food carts, or larger like waste shredders and blood test labs. Yarping and texting on cellphones in the open, believing privacy policies, faith in crypto, wi-fi, ISPs, VPNs, HTTPS, Tor, clouds, IoT, is day-dreaming, making sellers rich. Anything that encourages and supports self-security instead of products, standards, official protectors, is the right direction. Quietly clumsy beats drum-beating authorities ever compromising their users for cohorts. SCIFs leak, sure, rig fixes, test, retest, minimize use of EMR devices, don't bet your life on any security, homebrew or top 10. Have a nice day. At 05:00 PM 6/23/2016, you wrote: >On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Karl Semich ><gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote: >I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such >security being accessible for all people. > > >Attempting to compile such a list would be >laborious and self-defeating. It would invite >compromise of the enumerated "secure" locations.  > >It would be more useful to compile >characteristics of "secure public spaces", and >heuristics for locating them in one's local >environs. How can we tell - without special >equipment etc - if a given space is >monitored? If we land in an unfamiliar city, >how can we correctly "guess" where to find a secure public space? > >On a recent trip I discovered a little 3' x 4' >nook in the outside wall of LA's Bonaventure >Hotel. Tho adjacent to areas of high >pedestrian traffic, the nook was unspied by any >cameras. No microphones or other sensors were >visible nearby. A blissful respite from the >otherwise panoptic surveillance of urban California.  > >In this case we might speculatively take the >hotel's Brutalist architecture as the heuristic >for finding similar spaces. Although sometimes >described as an aesthetically "fascist" style, >Brutalist architects loved to create little >difficult-to-surveil nooks & crannies in their >buildings. Alas many of these spaces have been >fenced up by the buildings' current Centrist >owners. For example the >contemptible >disfigurement of Boston's magnificent Government Service Center building. > >What are other heuristics for finding secure less-surveilled spaces? From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 13:38:59 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:38:59 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jun 23, 2016 4:38 PM, "juan" wrote: > > And you can read the list. > > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/ > > You don't need to be subscribed to read it. Thank you, my dear, but it is not the same thing. I want to be formaly subscribed and receive aaaall the lovely messages in my inbox. You know me enough to understand my personal position, Juan. :) If the people behind ja.group are still subscribed, even after using two fake accounts to humilliate and harass a person, why can't I be subscribed too? :) Some of the people behind the lynch mob already told their names and they are still in the tor-talk list. Only two fake accounts were banned. The real accounts are normally subscribed. Not fair, not reasonable. It says a lot about the moderation team's preferences. If I had told lies using a fake account, my personal account would be still protected and subscribed. Instead, I decided to expose myself in an honest way and I am being punished for not using a fake account to defend Jake. You know, being sincere and transparent is not a valuable thing for hypocrite people. Do you remember the jokes that I told about my personal convictions, Juan? I am millions of times more hard headed than you, my dear. Just wait, hihi! :) > boyce is just a left-wing fascist. It's now fashionable among left-wing fascists to pretend to care oh so much about women, while ignoring cases where women are actually hurt. Yeah, I confess I was waiting for formal excuses because he is pretending to be politically correct. I am pretty disappointed. He is a bad actor and not much smart. The lies about banned people using threats to subscribe again were stranger than his disgusting offenses about rape apology. Sick guy, really disturbing, eeck! :-/ Well, hope he learns how to fake better with his friends of ja.group. It is pretty stupid, Juan, but I was trying to sing a bit of Bob Marley, hihi... ;) Bad Boyce, bad Boyce, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Bad Boyce, bad Boyce, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2465 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 23 16:19:47 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:19:47 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> On 06/23/2016 05:33 PM, John Young wrote: > Portable SCIFs have been around for decades, tent-size and desk-top: > > http://cryptome.org/bema-se.htm > > More compact and emanation-resistant now. Carry your own. "I demand the cone of silence!" Sorry about that, Chief. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jun 23 16:59:51 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:59:51 -0400 Subject: tools for enrollment In-Reply-To: <805376823.7722774.1466613793173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160622123934.GQ29643@x220-a02> <805376823.7722774.1466613793173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B8FEF90-5CF4-4626-9A7B-0C364A8A396C@synfin.org> On June 22, 2016 12:43:13 PM EDT, jim bell wrote: >From: Zenaan Harkness To: cypherpunks > > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:39 AM > Subject: tools for enrollment > [...] >>2) One foundation of any sane community is the right of a human to >>   grow his own food and any other plant, for medicinal or other >>   purposes (personal enjoyment, to trade with others, etc) > >>3) A document called the King James Bible (one random example), speaks >>   to this fundamental human right, in a way which certain adult >humans >>  can receive as, well let's just call it "the gospel truth." > >However, see 1943 Supreme Court case Wickard v. Filburn.  Wikipedia: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn >In what had to have been the high-water mark for justification of >Federal Government powers, from Wikipedia: >"An Ohio farmer, Roscoe Filburn, was growing wheat for use to feed >animals on his own farm. The U.S. government had established limits on >wheat production based on acreage owned by a farmer, in order to >stabilize wheat prices and supplies. In 1941 Filburn grew more than the >limits permitted and he was ordered to pay a penalty of $117.11. He >claimed his wheat was not sold in interstate commerce and so the >penalty could not apply to him. The Supreme Court stated "The intended >disposition of the crop here involved has not been expressly stated..." >and later "Whether the subject of the regulation in question was >"production," "consumption," or "marketing" is, therefore, not material >for purposes of deciding the question of federal power before us [...] >[b]ut even if appellee's activity be local and though it may not be >regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by >Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate >commerce and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at >some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'"[4]""The >Supreme Court interpreted the United States Constitution's Commerce >Clause under Article 1 Section 8, which permits the United States >Congress "to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the >several States, and with the Indian Tribes." The Court decided that >Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would >buy for animal feed on the open market, which is traded nationally >(interstate), and is therefore within the purview of the Commerce >Clause. Although Filburn's relatively small amount of production of >more wheat than he was allotted would not affect interstate commerce >itself, the cumulative actions of thousands of other farmers just like >Filburn would certainly become substantial. Therefore, according to the >court, Filburn's production could be regulated by the federal >government." >I consider the Supreme Court's 'reasoning' in this case to be insane. >                      Jim Bell We live in an absurd police state (police world, largely), where jackbooted thugs regulate what you put into your own body. What fucking right does any government have to say about what drug I want to eat, smoke or shoot? Is it my body or isn't it? Fuck cops, fuck the judicial system, and fuck all the politicians out there who think they are doing important work, so many foul cogs in a disgusting, suffocating, broken machine. -- John Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 20:08:34 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:08:34 -0700 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576CA432.4030007@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 11:48 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > I would love to see you and Rayzer interacting in person, Juan. I > think it's true love! :D <3 :D <3 I have no interest whatsoever in spending any amount of time incarcerated for violent crimes spank you very much... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dreamingforward at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 18:16:58 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:16:58 -0500 Subject: tools for enrollment In-Reply-To: <4B8FEF90-5CF4-4626-9A7B-0C364A8A396C@synfin.org> References: <20160622123934.GQ29643@x220-a02> <805376823.7722774.1466613793173.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <4B8FEF90-5CF4-4626-9A7B-0C364A8A396C@synfin.org> Message-ID: > We live in an absurd police state (police world, largely), where jackbooted > thugs regulate what you put into your own body. What fucking right does any > government have to say about what drug I want to eat, smoke or shoot? Is it > my body or isn't it? > > Fuck cops, fuck the judicial system, and fuck all the politicians out there > who think they are doing important work, so many foul cogs in a disgusting, > suffocating, broken machine. Yes, but John, you are mistaking media bullshit for reality. If you ever get busted for drugs, tell the court what you just said and that they'd have to outlaw prime-rib and cheesecake because they are also bad for you. I no longer believe in media. I've seen the Court from the inside. What's happening is far stranger and has to do with the intimidating power of the all-seeing-eye and how it controls everything with Latin: medical system, legal system, and commerce. Twain was right. No one's competent enough to be this malicious. Mark From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 10:53:57 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:53:57 +0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c205d.6640b00a.78560.47f0@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <576c205d.6640b00a.78560.47f0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: 2016-06-23 20:47 GMT+03:00 juan : > Juan, are there any words that can describe such an ugly, cowardly > and > > idiotic behavior? > > I can't find in my vocabulary. Nor english and nor russian. > > *I have one word for it : American =)* > > > There are totalitarians everywhere of course. > *But totalitarians pretending to be the moral rulers of the > universe? *Only > Americans can do that. > +1!, my friend! Thanks for solving this enigma :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1373 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 21:43:02 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:43:02 -0700 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. >> > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' > boyce. > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and > suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 21:50:27 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:50:27 -0700 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576cafa5.4702b00a.1f077.ffffc120@mx.google.com> References: <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> <20160624033122.GO6268@x220-a02> <576cafa5.4702b00a.1f077.ffffc120@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576CBC13.3070209@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 08:58 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:31:22 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >>> here's scumbag rayzer cheering his comrade boyce, and >>> cheering censorship of course >>> >>> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013507.html >> I did a double take on that too - I thought first "may be this is HTML >> email not translating bold into text format properly or something". >> >> I ended up reading it as follows: >> >> > > Best of luck >> > ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. >> >> As in, Rayzer saying Boyce is an ASSCRACK, and not approving. > > rayzer can of course clear it up, but thing is, he is replying > to this post : > > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013473.html > > Notice that boyce's message (fowarded by me) ends with "best of > luck" > > And according to rayzer that should have been "best of luck > asscrack" - boyce should have insulted me. But he didn't so > rayzer thinks "he's way too polite". > > > > > The last paragraph is my thought on the topic That's what moderators should say to serial offenders (according to them) and it IS NOT indicative of any support for his actions. Although dev lists do moderate for good reason occasionally (and preen subscribers for their skills) , [tor-talk] is not one of those Rr > > > > > > > >> Then of course the "He's WAY too polite" comment could come across as >> "if he were not so polite, he might not be seen as an ASSCRACK, and >> would be doing his job properly, as it is, he fucked up." >> >> But then my default "assume best intention" hat compels me to then >> assume that Rayzer is a little socially inept, probably as a result of >> vaccination damage causing a mild autism or something. >> >> But then, he has demonstrated more than adequate capacity for being >> not inept, and in fact quite intellectually incisive (if moronic in >> his views - doublethink indeed). >> >> It does seem to me has has failed to contemplate in depth on his >> schooling/ indoctrination - at the very least.i >> >> >>> Then again, rayzer is a retard who thinks appelbaum is being >>> 'smeared' by the tor mafia and that the tor mafia is to be >>> trusted...doublethink can go a long way... >>> >>>> - though >>>> I admit I might have missed that he actually is. For now "I don't >>>> recall" is my plea on this one :) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 05:27:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:27:46 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 09:07:18PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jun 22, 2016 8:39 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > Your absurd and duplicious apology for censorship, hypocritically > dubbed 'moderation', has been duly noted. > > > > Yeah, you censor people in other to protect your poor > retarded audience. Touching. > > No, they were not my audience at all. My ego never was not so > pretentious. They were people trying to learn more about programming, > electronics, security, better ways of buying components, even living in a > corrupt country, full of injust imposts and taxes... A little about > everything, Juan. Some of us talked about phylosophy, History, poetry... > And all of the group asked to moderate that guy. It was not my decision. > Democracy, my dear. :) There is room in the world for private or semi-private clubs where the democracy of the club prevails. The benefit of this over capital-D democracy, as Juan has succinctly pointed out wrt the Debian example, is that no one HAS to join that club. I don't HAVE to die for the cause of Debian, and on top of it, I can fork as much of the code and do with it as I want/ am able. So these private clubs, I think they can be useful for people. I think of AA as another example (Alcoholics Anonymous) - useful for some people, private (members only) but open to anyone joining if they need or want, but also probably subject to security - getting the boot if you are destructive to the rules of that private club. I'm ok with groups having their private clubs, or semi private/ semi public. Although I object to some of the "democratic foundations" of Debian, I am ok with the Debian developers continuing to choose to have their private little free software democracy club - that's just not for me. I roll to Juan's "if someone's got something to say, they're allowed to damn well say it" side of the street. > I was just one of the moderation team, the only woman, and my work was > avoing spammers and disasters. The difference was that I was knowed as > moderator in public for being easily contacted for all the members of the > list. The rest of the moderator team wanted to avoid problems in their > inboxes. They were wiser than me and really coward in one person' specific > case. I hear that you learned some wisdom, and I can see how cowardliness could exist coincident with wisdom, although I would personally not juxta those two realities as part of the same adjective for a person's actions - if it's cowardly, that's the end of it for me, it's a cowardly act. > Sorry, Juan, I really don't care if you likes me or not. It won't change > my life or my personal convictions. > > Cecilia Again, marginal cost of online discussion group is as good as zero. Why should we hold against you, your desire for or participation in a moderated online discussion group? For me that's an equation like "1 + orange = flying". Now, for foundations for robust broader "community"/ national "society", this is another matter entirely - we need fundamental human rights to be respected very strongly, for a strong society potential. We need the right to create and live "hard core free speech" forums, we need "the right to free and anonymous travel on the commons", we need these and more! And having strong foundations does not remove the right for small/ medium or large groups to form their own (semi) private clubs (if they're useful for you, healing for others, comforting for some, go for it, create as many private clubs as your heart desires). "Strong public rights, is not contradictory to private clubs." Juan, I'd like your thoughts on this proposition. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 05:38:54 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:38:54 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 07:45:44AM +0300, Александр wrote: > Those who didn't betray Appelbaum are now banned? > Those who ask questions and/or dig deeper that the average sheeple are now > censored by the "ANTIcensorship" project/software? > And the excuse is so touching.... "ludicrous rape apologetics" and > "offtopic discussions". > > Juan are there any words than can describe such an ugly, cowardly and > idiotic behavior? > I can't find in my vocabulary. Nor english and nor russian. I don't know Alex, but I do know this: I have an expectation (recently dashed to smithereens) that a project such as Tor Inc, promoting "freedom of speech, whistleblowing and more", should facilitate at least ONE public communication forum (email list) which list has a strong guarantee of freedom of speech, even though most or all other lists may be considered semi or fully private club lists (only excepting the laws which bind that corporation in its jurisdiction - a corporation obviously cannot fail to censor illegal "speech" in its home jurisdiction). It is extremely disappointing to me that Tor Inc fails to even attempt to do so. We are left with the reality they are nothing a (semi) private club operating on dictatorial (sorry, "democratic") principles. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 06:14:00 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 23:14:00 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <20160623073437.GA27547@miyamoto> Message-ID: <20160623131400.GD6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 08:09:22AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > All Jake's friends and supporters are being brutally harassed in last > weeks. > > It is absolutely lovely receiving messages talking about raping me when > everybody says they are 'rape victims' and 'we need to avoid any kind of > violence against women'. > > Uff, it seems a bad and sick contraditory joke, really hypocrite... Why do > the people forget that I am a woman when it is convenient? And I was a > _real_ victim, I didn't tell lies using an anonymous site and my > networking... :-/ > > The worst part about everything is feeling really lucky, because Jake is > receiving messages talking about killing him. At least, I will be just > raped and, of course, only for correct and fair persons. Cecilia, it is amazing to watch the intensity of this campaign - all ja.talk repostings to the tor-talk list were allowed, but your responses, which actually came from personal experience, have been used as grounds to completely ban you from tor-talk. Uncomfortable echoes of "I told you so, all of you" in the voice of Juan, inexplicable bounce around my mind :) So many examples we have (Debian, Tor, your electronics groups and plenty more) where people join an online discussion group of some sort, invest life energy, and for a while feel they are "part of a community", only to have that feeling destroyed at some point when the moderator, administrator or employees pull rank and expose themselves, and expose the presumptions we made about them and -their- forums as matching what we originally thought it was. When there is public opposition to a particular exercise of dictatorial authority, then that is a data point suggesting a new, similar group (public or private club) could be created, with different or similar rules etc. When there is alignment between those who exercise authority over a forum, perhaps on behalf of the majority of that forum or not, and the expectations of the majority in that forum, then there will presumably be relative harmony. And those who experience being in the minority learn that they need to look elsewhere for others who share their particular bent. The journey can be painful, eye opening, liberating or all of these. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 19:47:00 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 23:47:00 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:09:10 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Hey, I'll take Team Cecilia, Juan, Alex, Rayzer and the rest of > cypherpunks ANY day. Might not be many people in this world who value > freedom of speech, but at least a few... Out of curiosity...How did the torbot rayzer get into that list...? Also rayzer is not the only 'cypherpunk' pentagon bot. We have at least boyce, 'ted smith', that psycho quinn, out of the top of my head. Indeed, I'd bet a couple of cents that the amount of robotic 'tor supporters' here is as high as it is in tor-talk. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jun 23 22:58:17 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 23:58:17 -0600 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: <576CCBF9.1020003@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/23/2016 10:56 PM, Александр wrote: >> >>> Rayzer wrote: >> * Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. * I wasn't >> supporting his (Griffin Boyce's) position. >> > > No?! You weren't? So you'll have to write in a little bit more ... > clear and distinct manner next time. 'cause that's exactly what i > thought too, Rayzer. That's how I read it too, as an insult to juan. > 2016-06-24 7:43 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : >> >> >> >> On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 Rayzer >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. >>>> >>> You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) >>> >>> Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident >>> torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' >>> boyce. >>> >>> You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and >>> suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. >>> >>> >> >> I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXbMvyAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+u2sIAL+PQqaohV8XnVs+xsBsOpAk g9HnaC7aV6i6gvHnSPO43/2rzRPttgK6YvQBYgjjJY9x/V3/e4pzRi6XtSS89jmJ 165rnOIwJYm+ZH5NDAy66wq8tkhVjCs1BXOabMcLANWxpXlpY46SLn7q7QTWHQWO TuNtCp5ZhZtt7B8TX9NSiICMbILPfq0297zPQggsFh0gcpMpI4nUAEw/8SlSaC15 2wcl5WfEutalszOvvMc/fIJ7OfHhwP7i5eH7XGRYh5HS1U1nJUybR9D4omonTvmX mZUIT2l4lmli0+ovAVMb/vNromzLQaWzvTUHZFc8jAuLG711c5xRaGC7S3Lawxc= =mxKh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 07:08:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:08:17 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <20160623140817.GE6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 08:33:33AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > On Thu, 2016-06-23 at 22:38 +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > I don't know Alex, but I do know this: I have an expectation (recently > > dashed to smithereens) that a project such as Tor Inc, promoting > > "freedom of speech, whistleblowing and more", should facilitate at least > > ONE public communication forum (email list) which list has a strong > > guarantee of freedom of speech, even though most or all other lists may > > be considered semi or fully private club lists (only excepting the > > laws which bind that corporation in its jurisdiction - a corporation > > obviously cannot fail to censor illegal "speech" in its home > > jurisdiction). > > I am all for freedom of speech, but a list started for a specific > purpose becomes useless if most, or even many, of the posts are > off-topic. The tor-talk list (which I do not subscribe to) was started > for a specific purpose, and allowing the continued posting of off-topic > garbage defeats the whole purpose of having such a list. Im saying "ok, so we agree folks have the right to create private clubs (private/ authoritarian/ moderated lists)" - what do you think about my expectation that Tor Inc actually live a bit of what it preaches and provide at least one "free speech, go for it guys and gals" list? > I don't work for the US military or US government, but I support the TOr > Project's and Graham Boyce's efforts to restore order to the list in > principle. Those who have threatened to rejoin the list under other > identities have committed a despicable and reprehensible act and deserve > the ban from the forum they have received. I don't know who you're referring to - I've seen no threats to rejoin, but I did see Cecilia respectful (if painfully submissive) request to be allowed to rejoin under her own provisio then she keep herself "on-topic". It seems evident she cannot even contact Boyce since he has kill filed her. Would you agree that users who are about to be banned, ought be given, say, AT LEAST ONE CHANCE to comply with a request to "stop posting off topic, if you continue we will ban you"? To my mind, that would be a sane foundation for the development of anything I would consider "community", but most "communities" administrators/ censors/ democratic dictators don't seem to give a rats... > I will admit that sometimes our governments in the US sometimes get it > wrong when passing laws. We as a nation have learned from our mistakes > and the history of the laws reflect this. I'm guessing you're talking about "we" as in America and Americans? Because that does not include me, and says to me, more about you. > To infiltrate an e-mail list > originated from private computer systems with off-topic posts, and then > to threaten to continue doing so despite being banned from that list is > against the law in most states and I believe violates Federal law as > well. Perhaps that happened. I did not see that, and so your assertion seems to me to be taken out of context of reality, and with a healthy dose of USA laws bias/ prejudice. > It is the right of the Tor Project and the people behind it to > refuse to re-publish off-topic messages. To that effect, I support the > Tor Project taking legal action against any such offenders if that > becomes necessary. Wow. You're really hard core here. Intended or not by you, you are coming across to me as pretty hard core fascist. If not intended, I grant you may just be modern-classicly schooled. From griffin at cryptolab.net Thu Jun 23 21:17:46 2016 From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:17:46 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: Zenaan Harkness wrote: > And we are now clear on your choice to exercise your predatorial right > to arbitrary exercise of power. Fascism in action. Get off the cross, we need the wood. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 20:19:29 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:19:29 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> References: <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:55:53 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:47:00PM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:09:10 +1000 > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > Hey, I'll take Team Cecilia, Juan, Alex, Rayzer and the rest of > > > cypherpunks ANY day. Might not be many people in this world who > > > value freedom of speech, but at least a few... > > > > Out of curiosity...How did the torbot rayzer get into that > > list...? > > > > Also rayzer is not the only 'cypherpunk' pentagon bot. We > > have at least boyce, 'ted smith', that psycho quinn, out of > > the top of my head. Indeed, I'd bet a couple of cents that the > > amount of robotic 'tor supporters' here is as high as it is > > in tor-talk. > > Because he's not asking for censorship of cypherpunks list Nobody is doing that, at least not openly. But I'm quite sure that all the torbots I mentioned would love to censor this list as well. here's scumbag rayzer cheering his comrade boyce, and cheering censorship of course https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013507.html Then again, rayzer is a retard who thinks appelbaum is being 'smeared' by the tor mafia and that the tor mafia is to be trusted...doublethink can go a long way... > - though > I admit I might have missed that he actually is. For now "I don't > recall" is my plea on this one :) From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 23 21:26:21 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:26:21 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <20160624012247.GH6268@x220-a02> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> <20160624012247.GH6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576CB66D.4080003@pilobilus.net> On 06/23/2016 09:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 07:19:47PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: >> On 06/23/2016 05:33 PM, John Young wrote: >>> Portable SCIFs have been around for decades, tent-size and desk-top: >>> >>> http://cryptome.org/bema-se.htm >>> >>> More compact and emanation-resistant now. Carry your own. >> >> "I demand the cone of silence!" >> >> Sorry about that, Chief. > > "99, get me that SCIF definition will you?" > > "Right away, Max." > Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility. Control had a portable version of the cone of silence - basically two plexiglass fish bowls connected by a tube - but of course it got stuck on the Chief's head then ended up shattered the first time it was deployed. I have come to realize the Agent 86 may have been the greatest intelligence officer of his generation: That is if, as I now suspect, he was working for Kaos all along. Smart wasted vast amounts of Control's money, misdirected 100% of its manpower and resources toward a crew of small time losers who were probably a KGB front set up for the purpose, and completely demoralized Control's Chief and (all but one of) his fellow Agents. And they fell for it. To such an extent that Control went out of business for good just five years after Smart showed up on the record as its "top Agent." :o) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 20:58:40 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:58:40 -0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <20160624033122.GO6268@x220-a02> References: <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> <20160624033122.GO6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576cafa5.4702b00a.1f077.ffffc120@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:31:22 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > here's scumbag rayzer cheering his comrade boyce, and > > cheering censorship of course > > > > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013507.html > > I did a double take on that too - I thought first "may be this is HTML > email not translating bold into text format properly or something". > > I ended up reading it as follows: > > > > Best of luck > > ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > > As in, Rayzer saying Boyce is an ASSCRACK, and not approving. rayzer can of course clear it up, but thing is, he is replying to this post : https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013473.html Notice that boyce's message (fowarded by me) ends with "best of luck" And according to rayzer that should have been "best of luck asscrack" - boyce should have insulted me. But he didn't so rayzer thinks "he's way too polite". > > Then of course the "He's WAY too polite" comment could come across as > "if he were not so polite, he might not be seen as an ASSCRACK, and > would be doing his job properly, as it is, he fucked up." > > But then my default "assume best intention" hat compels me to then > assume that Rayzer is a little socially inept, probably as a result of > vaccination damage causing a mild autism or something. > > But then, he has demonstrated more than adequate capacity for being > not inept, and in fact quite intellectually incisive (if moronic in > his views - doublethink indeed). > > It does seem to me has has failed to contemplate in depth on his > schooling/ indoctrination - at the very least.i > > > > Then again, rayzer is a retard who thinks appelbaum is being > > 'smeared' by the tor mafia and that the tor mafia is to be > > trusted...doublethink can go a long way... > > > > > - though > > > I admit I might have missed that he actually is. For now "I don't > > > recall" is my plea on this one :) From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 23:19:30 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:19:30 -0400 Subject: US Federal Court: The Fourth Amendment Does Not Protect Your Home Computer Message-ID: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/federal-court-fourth-amendment-does-not-protect-your-home-computer https://www.eff.org/files/2016/06/23/matish_suppression_edva.pdf https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/06/23/2040255/federal-court-the-fourth-amendment-does-not-protect-your-home-computer The EFF reports that a federal court in Virginia today ruled that a criminal defendant has no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in his personal computer (PDF), located inside his home. The court says the federal government does not need a warrant to hack into an individual's computer. EFF reports: "The implications for the decision, if upheld, are staggering: law enforcement would be free to remotely search and seize information from your computer, without a warrant, without probable cause, or without any suspicion at all. To say the least, the decision is bad news for privacy. But it's also incorrect as a matter of law, and we expect there is little chance it would hold up on appeal. (It also was not the central component of the judge's decision, which also diminishes the likelihood that it will become reliable precedent.) But the decision underscores a broader trend in these cases: courts across the country, faced with unfamiliar technology and unsympathetic defendants, are issuing decisions that threaten everyone's rights. From carlos at s8f.org Thu Jun 23 22:18:08 2016 From: carlos at s8f.org (Carlos Rodriguez) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 05:18:08 +0000 Subject: Salty 4.0 released 40 years to the day after Diffie-Hellman algorithm invented Message-ID: <0101015580d804ce-f582d1b8-739a-4077-b756-ccfc55fc1021-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com> Salty is a nodejs-powered CLI-based alternative to PGP/GPG using NaCl instead of RSA/DSA. There is a GUI in progress. Commits and tags in the Salty repo (and this announcement) are signed with GPG key 5FBB 2F98 3862 1AFF. Features • NO 3rd parties (peerio), NO p2p network (PRISM-safe, usable on airgapped machines), NO browser js (it’s not safe!), NO exotic/compiled deps (goodbye openssl vulns), no Comodo SSL (CloudFlare), and NO shady corporations (Virgil Sec). PERIOD. • general purpose CLI, lightweight library attached • audited, bundled dependencies - no install scripts or backdoors • supports anonymous-sender or signed/verified messaging • sharable pubkey string that can fit in a single tweet • does NOT use your ssh keys, pgp keys, or anything RSA • encrypt public key is always ephemeral - does NOT leak metadata • sender identity is deniable, unless they explicitly commit to sign the message • file length hidden with padding • public signing/verifying with detached signatures • binary or “ascii armor” PEM output • import/export your wallet folder - PEM encoded and secretboxed with Scrypt KDF • (new in 3.1) can use anonymous private Github gists to remotely store salty messages • (new in 3.1) full tar/gz support for encrypting/decrypting directories (supports symmetric or asymmetric cipher) • MIT-licensed — How is this better than PGP? This is a step-by-step rebuttal to [secushare](http://secushare.org/PGP)'s arguments against the PGP model, and how [Salty](https://s8f.org/salty.html) tries to make things right again. ### 1. Downgrade Attack: The risk of using it wrong. Unlike PGP, Salty does not "integrate" into your browser, email client, or other sensitive software. Therefore, usability shortcomings of integration UIs will not raise security issues. It is up to the user to safeguard the connection (i.e. their email account) which Salty can't control, and is not interested in controlling. "Doing it wrong" is barely possible since there are so few modes of use, and all parameters are hard-coded into the software, so no critical choices are necessary on the part of the user. ### 2. The OpenPGP Format: You might aswell run around the city naked. Salty does not include the sender or recipient's public key in plaintext. By default it encrypts using an ephemeral key and nonce, obscures the message length with padding, encrypts the real message length, and encrypts the info for verifying authenticity and integrity (hmac, public keys, and signature). Signature is opt-in. ### 3. Transaction Data: Mallory knows who you are talking to. Fully anonymized traffic seems like a pipe dream, and (despite the existence of the Tor project) will probably not be possible in the near future. However, for what it's worth: In theory, the idea of a "mixing service" from Bitcoin for psuedo-anonymizing transactions is possible using Salty files. Since a Salty file can only be made sense of by one who posesses the receiver's private key, a secure "drop box" could be set up where everyone dumps to the same folder, and everyone reads every file, trying to decrypt everything until decryptable files are found. ### 4. No Forward Secrecy: It makes sense to collect it all. Salty solves this problem in two ways: 1. With Salty it's easy to refresh keys: just regenerate your decryption key, and tweet the resulting pubkey string. Destroying your encryption key effectively renders your previously received messages unreadable and useless to collect. 2. Recovering the 32-byte key used to encrypt a message will not allow decryption of all Alice<->Bob messages, since each message has a unique key as the result of Diffie-Hellman with Alice using an ephemeral key. ### 5. Cryptogeddon: Time to upgrade cryptography itself? Salty throws out RSA and NIST-approved curves entirely, using the independently developed, peer-reviewed, battle tested, public domain NaCl crypto suite. ### 6. Federation: Get off the inter-server super-highway. Salty is not a network protocol, but it's recommended to use the most secure channel possible to trade Salty messages. The same goes for any sensitive information transferred between two parties. ### 7. Discovery: A Web of Trust you can't trust. Salty does not prescribe a web-of-trust model. Keyservers are optional and if one has a Twitter account, not necessary at all. End of story! ### 8. PGP conflates non-repudiation and authentication. Salty allows the sender to decide whether to sign the message, revealing to the receiver (via HMAC) that they in fact constructed it with their known identity. By default, only message integrity is ensured, protecting the sender's privacy if they desire it. ### 9. Statistical Analysis: Guessing on the size of messages. Salty does some random-padding to help obscure the message size. ### 10. Workflow: Group messaging with PGP is impractical. This is still true. Group messaging is better done by a network protocol. — Code on Github: https://github.com/carlos8f/salty Cheers, Carlos -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 07:31:20 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:31:20 -0700 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: <576D4438.2080304@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 09:56 PM, Александр wrote: > > > Rayzer > wrote: > * Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > * I wasn't supporting his (Griffin Boyce's) position. > > > No?! You weren't? > So you'll have to write in a little bit more ... clear and distinct > manner next time. You mean... Like Z? (snigger) > 'cause that's exactly what i thought too, Rayzer. Sorry about the confusion... It was off the top of my head. If you follow the issue back you'll see that I called it institutional slander the first I heard of it and as time goes by without ANY authorities involved, it just reinforces that position which I've never wavered from. Rr > > 2016-06-24 7:43 GMT+03:00 Rayzer >: > > > > > > > > On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > > > Rayzer > wrote: > > > > > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > > >> > > > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > > > > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > > > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' > > > boyce. > > > > > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and > > > suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > > > > > > > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3142 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 07:33:46 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:33:46 -0700 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: <576D44CA.40205@riseup.net> On 06/24/2016 05:24 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > Being sincere, I thought Rayzer was just being ironic, making a joke > about Boyce's polite words to Juan and the banned people. > Exactly... Mostly about his reply to Juan ... not knowing the other parties or their propensity for ad homs and coherent thought processes. Rr > Few minutes after sending this message, Rayzer condemned Boyce's > banning acts in another message. He is not supporting the banning, Juan. > > When I received Boyce's message wishing "best of luck", I admiss I > thought "Oh, thank you, Mr. Boyce. Please, go to Hell with all my > cumpliments and have a lovely journey.". Polite messages are cute! <3 > > Creepy guy. Boyce, not Rayzer or you, Juan. Better avoiding more > misunderstandings, hahaha!! ;D > > On Jun 24, 2016 1:47 AM, "Rayzer" > wrote: > > > > On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > > Rayzer > wrote: > > > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > >> > > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' > > boyce. > > > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and > > suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > > > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2984 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 21:45:57 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:45:57 +0300 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <31DCB384-6FBD-40A4-8E75-D11002BF8038@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: > > He is a bad actor and not much smart. The lies about banned people using > threats to subscribe again were stranger than his disgusting offenses about > rape apology. Sick guy, really disturbing, eeck! :-/ > Well, Cecilia, you said it all here. Zen writes: > Alexander,I didn't realize that you'd also been banned. So I didn't ask > Boyce. But likewise, I don't recall that you've made as many off-topic > posts as I have. So I'm suspicious. > > I'm suspicious too. But... they had to crucify few random victims to shut all the others/to teach a lesson all the rest of the people with good heart, mind and soul. that' a common tactic among scumbags. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 07:46:41 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:46:41 -0700 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c1ec0.c4501f0a.e1b3.41cb@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623123854.GC6268@x220-a02> <1466688813.3365.13.camel@moonpatrol> <576c1ec0.c4501f0a.e1b3.41cb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576D47D1.4050003@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 10:40 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: >> We as a nation have learned from our mistakes >> and.. > > Juan responded: > Again either that's sarcasm, or I'm - almost - speechless. > > No... I do believe he's serious... I'd agree you know. For instance our nation learned that wars to hold ground are a waste of manpower delivering to many unsightly corpses to Dover AFB... So why 'go there' when we can get some vicious freak proxies like the Saudis or Kenya and Ethiopia (CIA Somalia war now handed off to Africom and proxies) to do our dirt for us? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 21:56:58 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:56:58 +0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: > > > Rayzer wrote: > * Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > * I wasn't supporting his (Griffin Boyce's) position. > No?! You weren't? So you'll have to write in a little bit more ... clear and distinct manner next time. 'cause that's exactly what i thought too, Rayzer. 2016-06-24 7:43 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : > > > > On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > >> > > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' > > boyce. > > > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and > > suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > > > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1539 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 08:15:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:15:31 -0700 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576D4E93.6000303@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 07:47 PM, juan wrote: > Also rayzer is not the only 'cypherpunk' pentagon bot. http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Teaser "TeaserBots are usually anarchopunkz with nothing to do and lots of Dharma to work off. They cruise around looking for listmembers that haven't made interstellar contact yet and buzz them, meaning that they find some isolated listserv on the intertubz with very few on-topic people around, then post re:s to some poor unsuspecting soul whom no one's going to believe (Juan) and then strut up and down in front of their NSA-linked cams wearing silly antennas on their head and making beep beep noises like a computer with a stuck key" Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 08:28:57 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:28:57 -0700 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <576D51B9.3020105@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 03:14 AM, Karl Semich wrote: > Hi list, > > I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure spaces > such as shielded rooms. > > I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such > security being accessible for all people. > > - Karl, USA > I have Retroshare installed but never use it. Is that what you mean by /"public secure spaces//such as shielded rooms."/?/ / Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 824 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jun 24 08:33:04 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:33:04 -0700 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <576D52B0.5050003@riseup.net> On 06/23/2016 04:19 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > "I demand the cone of silence!" > What? (that's the joke) Here's something from the same time period as the cone of silence... The OG Selfie: http://i.imgur.com/GW3bhD4.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 05:24:44 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:24:44 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: Being sincere, I thought Rayzer was just being ironic, making a joke about Boyce's polite words to Juan and the banned people. Few minutes after sending this message, Rayzer condemned Boyce's banning acts in another message. He is not supporting the banning, Juan. When I received Boyce's message wishing "best of luck", I admiss I thought "Oh, thank you, Mr. Boyce. Please, go to Hell with all my cumpliments and have a lovely journey.". Polite messages are cute! <3 Creepy guy. Boyce, not Rayzer or you, Juan. Better avoiding more misunderstandings, hahaha!! ;D On Jun 24, 2016 1:47 AM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > > On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > >> > > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your 'senpai' > > boyce. > > > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, and > > suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > > > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1757 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 05:50:29 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:50:29 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jun 24, 2016 12:12 AM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > On 06/23/2016 11:48 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > I would love to see you and Rayzer interacting in person, Juan. I think it's true love! :D <3 :D <3 > > I have no interest whatsoever in spending any amount of time incarcerated for violent crimes spank you very much... Ah, Rayzer... I like you a lot, but if you spank me, I think Juan will feel a bit jealous, hihi... :D No, not because he loves you... just because he wants to spank me too, hahaha!! And throw dozens of onions at my head, hahaha!! ;D My "feminazi" friend hates men and Tor, so I used to send her some pics holding onions, with male friends in non sense situations. She always sends me pics using leather and fur, holding bacon, hamburgers, barbecue, dildos, crazy neon preservatives, messages saying "Die, vegan nazi! Barbecue is life!", this kind of lovely things, hahaha!!! ;D I told Juan about our jokes and he was not offended with the bacon and the burgers, but he absolutely doesn't like my relationship with Tor and onions, hahaha!! ;D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1268 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 18:09:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:09:10 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: References: <576b0d29.c8249f0a.fdc44.32aa@mx.google.com> <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 05:38:59PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jun 23, 2016 4:38 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > And you can read the list. > > > > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/ > > > > You don't need to be subscribed to read it. > > Thank you, my dear, but it is not the same thing. I want to be formaly > subscribed and receive aaaall the lovely messages in my inbox. You know me > enough to understand my personal position, Juan. :) > > If the people behind ja.group are still subscribed, even after using two > fake accounts to humilliate and harass a person, why can't I be subscribed > too? :) > > Some of the people behind the lynch mob already told their names and they > are still in the tor-talk list. Only two fake accounts were banned. The > real accounts are normally subscribed. Not fair, not reasonable. It says > a lot about the moderation team's preferences. > > If I had told lies using a fake account, my personal account would be still > protected and subscribed. Instead, I decided to expose myself in an honest > way and I am being punished for not using a fake account to defend Jake. > You know, being sincere and transparent is not a valuable thing for > hypocrite people. > > Do you remember the jokes that I told about my personal convictions, Juan? > I am millions of times more hard headed than you, my dear. Just wait, > hihi! :) Reminds me of a line from that movie earlier this year, Eddie The Eagle, where he lands off the ski jump without crashing for the first time (or at least, without dieing :) and his trainer (who got banned from the sport so many years prior for being arrogant 'but transparent') yells out "You did it! And we're a disgrace!!" So: You did it! You stood for honesty, spoke personally and transparently, drew out some more fascists, and crashed and burned, and (according to tor-project), we're a disgrace! Hey, I'll take Team Cecilia, Juan, Alex, Rayzer and the rest of cypherpunks ANY day. Might not be many people in this world who value freedom of speech, but at least a few... > > boyce is just a left-wing fascist. It's now fashionable > among left-wing fascists to pretend to care oh so much about women, while > ignoring cases where women are actually hurt. > > Yeah, I confess I was waiting for formal excuses because he is pretending > to be politically correct. I am pretty disappointed. He is a bad actor > and not much smart. This is one of the beautiful results (sometimes) of being "simple" (transparnet, open, honest, asking straightforward questions etc, even when some people will say "oh, how stupid you are - you got banned/ everybody knows the answer/ etc") - ahah, but some true human nature got shown, and others have a chance to see something they may be not saw before. That's a great service to other humans, so thanks y'all! > The lies about banned people using threats to > subscribe again were stranger than his disgusting offenses about rape > apology. Sick guy, really disturbing, eeck! :-/ Astoundingly messed up guy. I'm suspecting actually a fake guy, one of the ja.group women with a huge knot in her knickers - but that would be even more disturbing. > Well, hope he learns how to fake better with his friends of ja.group. It > is pretty stupid, Juan, but I was trying to sing a bit of Bob Marley, > hihi... ;) > > Bad Boyce, bad Boyce, whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for > you? > Bad Boyce, bad Boyce, whatcha gonna do? > Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you? Exodus! Bull shit of ja.people. They gone exposed their messed up tor group. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 18:20:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:20:25 +1000 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160624012025.GG6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 05:33:31PM -0400, John Young wrote: > Portable SCIFs have been around for decades, tent-size and desk-top: > > http://cryptome.org/bema-se.htm Is cryptome meant to be not accessible over tor? I don't know what SCIFs is. > More compact and emanation-resistant now. Carry your own. > > Entrepreneurs would offer curb-side service, like food carts, or larger > like waste shredders and blood test labs. Yarping and texting on cellphones > in the open, believing privacy policies, faith in crypto, wi-fi, ISPs, VPNs, > HTTPS, Tor, clouds, IoT, is day-dreaming, making sellers rich. > > Anything that encourages and supports self-security instead of products, > standards, official protectors, is the right direction. +1 this 1+ Same with authority - encouraging, conversational tools etc, for internalising authority, and for identifying where we are schooled in externalising authority. (Sorry, a little offtopic.) From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 18:22:47 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:22:47 +1000 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160624012247.GH6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 07:19:47PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 06/23/2016 05:33 PM, John Young wrote: > > Portable SCIFs have been around for decades, tent-size and desk-top: > > > > http://cryptome.org/bema-se.htm > > > > More compact and emanation-resistant now. Carry your own. > > "I demand the cone of silence!" > > Sorry about that, Chief. "99, get me that SCIF definition will you?" "Right away, Max." From skquinn at rushpost.com Fri Jun 24 09:48:50 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:48:50 -0500 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> On Fri, 2016-06-24 at 13:28 -0300, someone wrote: > It's also funny who boyce denied working for the tor ****s > multiple times, while doing their dirty work. More like Mr. Boyce just wanted order restored to a mailing list he enjoyed reading, that had been made unusable by the volume of off-topic or garbage posts over most of a month. Any project like Tor relies on its fair share of volunteers to make stuff happen. That doesn't necessarily mean those volunteers are on the government payroll, if anything it would mean quite the opposite. It's also unnecessarily pejorative to call that "dirty work." I really think all the majority of the tor-users list readership wants, is an on-topic list. That's what Mr. Boyce gave them. Their list, their rules. If you don't like it, start your own list with whatever topic you want. With freedom of speech, comes freedom to decide what to ignore. To flood a mailing list with off-topic and garbage posts, intrudes upon the freedom of speech for the participants of that list who want to discuss the named topic. -- Shawn K. Quinn From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 19:55:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:55:53 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> References: <576b20a2.e701b00a.1d4b5.415d@mx.google.com> <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:47:00PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:09:10 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Hey, I'll take Team Cecilia, Juan, Alex, Rayzer and the rest of > > cypherpunks ANY day. Might not be many people in this world who value > > freedom of speech, but at least a few... > > Out of curiosity...How did the torbot rayzer get into that > list...? > > Also rayzer is not the only 'cypherpunk' pentagon bot. We > have at least boyce, 'ted smith', that psycho quinn, out of the > top of my head. Indeed, I'd bet a couple of cents that the > amount of robotic 'tor supporters' here is as high as it is in > tor-talk. Because he's not asking for censorship of cypherpunks list - though I admit I might have missed that he actually is. For now "I don't recall" is my plea on this one :) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 09:14:10 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:14:10 -0300 Subject: message from tor brownshirt griffin boyce In-Reply-To: <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> References: <576aed3c.f825c80a.88fef.5418@mx.google.com> <576C0BAD.50509@riseup.net> <576c1c35.82bf1f0a.5e03c.4461@mx.google.com> <576CBA56.1020904@riseup.net> Message-ID: <576d5bfe.88b41f0a.85321.2f02@mx.google.com> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:43:02 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/23/2016 10:29 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:17:49 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> Best of luck ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > >> > > You didn't need to do that rayzer, but thanks anyway =) > > > > Now you've completely proven that you are just the resident > > torbot, and pro-censorship scum one level below your > > 'senpai' boyce. > > > > You are a marxist statist in the cypherpunk mailing list, > > and suck the pentagon's dick. Priceless. > > > > > > I wasn't supporting his position dick-for-brains Thanks for clarifying. Apologies, and I take back what I said. At least in this message =P > > > From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 20:23:00 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:23:00 +1000 Subject: Need a grass roots or war time "civil" movement - White Helments at your $60M service! Message-ID: <20160624032300.GN6268@x220-a02> Some people will hopefully even be surprised, in the "oh, my, god, the US govt/media/mil complex is serving me propaganda" way... one can only hope. https://southfront.org/dramatic-rescue-man-kid-runs-towards-camera-44-staged-pictures/ “Dramatic Rescue! Man With Kid Runs Towards Camera!” – 44 Staged Pictures From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 09:28:48 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:28:48 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:17:46 -0400 Griffin Boyce wrote: > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > And we are now clear on your choice to exercise your predatorial > > right to arbitrary exercise of power. Fascism in action. > > Get off the cross, we need the wood. It's funny how the pentagon lapdogs get to censor people in 'their' list and also use this one to exercise 'free speech'. It's also funny who boyce denied working for the tor cunts multiple times, while doing their dirty work. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 20:31:22 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:31:22 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> References: <20160623122746.GA6268@x220-a02> <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160624033122.GO6268@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:19:29AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:55:53 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:47:00PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:09:10 +1000 > > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > Hey, I'll take Team Cecilia, Juan, Alex, Rayzer and the rest of > > > > cypherpunks ANY day. Might not be many people in this world who > > > > value freedom of speech, but at least a few... > > > > > > Out of curiosity...How did the torbot rayzer get into that > > > list...? > > > > > > Also rayzer is not the only 'cypherpunk' pentagon bot. We > > > have at least boyce, 'ted smith', that psycho quinn, out of > > > the top of my head. Indeed, I'd bet a couple of cents that the > > > amount of robotic 'tor supporters' here is as high as it is > > > in tor-talk. > > > > Because he's not asking for censorship of cypherpunks list > > Nobody is doing that, at least not openly. But I'm quite > sure that all the torbots I mentioned would love to censor this > list as well. > > > here's scumbag rayzer cheering his comrade boyce, and cheering > censorship of course > > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013507.html I did a double take on that too - I thought first "may be this is HTML email not translating bold into text format properly or something". I ended up reading it as follows: > > Best of luck > ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. As in, Rayzer saying Boyce is an ASSCRACK, and not approving. Then of course the "He's WAY too polite" comment could come across as "if he were not so polite, he might not be seen as an ASSCRACK, and would be doing his job properly, as it is, he fucked up." But then my default "assume best intention" hat compels me to then assume that Rayzer is a little socially inept, probably as a result of vaccination damage causing a mild autism or something. But then, he has demonstrated more than adequate capacity for being not inept, and in fact quite intellectually incisive (if moronic in his views - doublethink indeed). It does seem to me has has failed to contemplate in depth on his schooling/ indoctrination - at the very least.i > Then again, rayzer is a retard who thinks appelbaum is being > 'smeared' by the tor mafia and that the tor mafia is to be > trusted...doublethink can go a long way... > > > - though > > I admit I might have missed that he actually is. For now "I don't > > recall" is my plea on this one :) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 09:59:47 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:59:47 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576d66b0.ce9a1f0a.a7fb3.3b83@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:48:50 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > On Fri, 2016-06-24 at 13:28 -0300, someone wrote: > > It's also funny who boyce denied working for the tor ****s > > multiple times, while doing their dirty work. > > More like Mr. Boyce just wanted order restored What the fuck does a psycho like you do in this list? > to a mailing list he > enjoyed reading, that had been made unusable by the volume of > off-topic or garbage posts over most of a month. > > Any project like Tor relies on its fair share of volunteers to make > stuff happen. That doesn't necessarily mean those volunteers are on > the government payroll, if anything it would mean quite the opposite. > It's also unnecessarily pejorative to call that "dirty work." I > really think all the majority of the tor-users list readership wants, > is an on-topic list. That's what Mr. Boyce gave them. Their list, > their rules. If you don't like it, start your own list with whatever > topic you want. > > With freedom of speech, comes freedom to decide what to ignore. To > flood a mailing list with off-topic and garbage posts, intrudes upon > the freedom of speech for the participants of that list who want to > discuss the named topic. > From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 21:00:30 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:00:30 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:37:08PM -0400, Griffin Boyce wrote: > I've been fairly surprised that the response has been almost entirely > positive. The 45-post thread on cypherpunks where Zenaan Harkness called me > a "fake man" (classy) notwithstanding. Taking out of context an "expressed suspicion" as a fact of name calling, won't do you any favours. > And is Zenaan banned? No. Is grarpamp or most of the other people who > posted in support of Jacob Appelbaum banned? No. And is Jacob Appelbaum > himself on the ban list? No. So please let us dispense with the idea that > the handful of people banned from this list are being persecuted for their > beliefs. > > There are thousands of people on this mailing list who receive *every* > message -- this is not a forum where off-topic posts can be deleted before > being seen. And quite frankly, three weeks of unbridled posting seems like > plenty to me. "We gave you enough rope to hang yourself, and those who went slightly overboard by my personal definition (at least until next week or whenever I change the rules again) are now banned, without even a single individual warning/ request to keep on topic, being given to said individuals. Classy. List administration at its best there Boyce. Not. "Arbitrary justice", which you might like to inform yourself regarding, is where "the rules" are not known in advance, and no concession is made to those who break the rules, WHEN THEY DON'T KNOW THOSE RULES. Your choice to allow "three weeks of unbridled posting" created in many of our minds, a rule which we all thought we were following - ja.talk kept reposting media crap, we had a right to respond (or so we thought). Your executive choice to ban certain individuals who "broke" your rule (because they went three weeks and ONE EXTRA DAY (let's say)), when you NEVER STATED to us your rule about "three weeks is OK, but three weeks + one day and THEN you will be banned with no right to recourse nor even any right to request me personally to change my mind" is EXTREMELY arbitrary. You have told us by your actions as well as your words (besides a few other things about yourself) that you WILL exercise arbitrary power over real humans attempting to communicate their truth, their soul, their pain, their attempts to find resultion on at least one of the normally -most- challenging and difficult conversations we Westerners have to confront, rape. Aren't you a bloody hero now?!! Three claps for Boyce, dispensing justice and facilitating community. Clap, clap, clap. > Tor is a software project, not a telenovela. Please keep posts > on-topic in the future. "And those who broke my rule in the past, are now kill filed by me, and even if you genuinely want to join and participate and abide by my rules, well who gives a flying f*** about you, this is MY list, and I AM the administrator, and I SET THE RULES!" Three cheers for Boyce, bringing real empathy and humanity to the Tor project, making the world a better place, cleaning up unsavoury posters. "Boyce, doing the Right Thing (cause he said so)." > There are endless opportunities to express an opinion > online, and everyone is free to seek them out. Of course. As I too have said. And we are now clear on your choice to exercise your predatorial right to arbitrary exercise of power. Fascism in action. How very American (hat tip to Juan)... Zenaan From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 10:04:28 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:04:28 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576d67cd.3303b00a.4194d.416d@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:48:50 -0500 worthless scumbag wrote: > > Any project like Tor relies on its fair share of volunteers to make > stuff happen. So they work for 'the project' whether they are paid or not. > That doesn't necessarily mean those volunteers are on > the government payroll, They are likely to get benefits from the government. They want to be hired in the future by the govenment, they can get 'recommendations', 'pad' their CVs, etc etc etc. Corrupt assholes are 'creative' when it comes to this sort of thing. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 23 21:06:39 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 14:06:39 +1000 Subject: Hi, Boyce! (was Fwd: tor-talk subscription update) In-Reply-To: <576cafa5.4702b00a.1f077.ffffc120@mx.google.com> References: <576c2c08.cd00b00a.2f0e3.54f3@mx.google.com> <576c39b5.e701b00a.58eed.66e1@mx.google.com> <20160624010910.GF6268@x220-a02> <576c9ed9.86031f0a.23de9.ffffb5e9@mx.google.com> <20160624025553.GM6268@x220-a02> <576ca676.91a31f0a.8b9bf.ffffbf42@mx.google.com> <20160624033122.GO6268@x220-a02> <576cafa5.4702b00a.1f077.ffffc120@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160624040639.GQ6268@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 12:58:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:31:22 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > > > > here's scumbag rayzer cheering his comrade boyce, and > > > cheering censorship of course > > > > > > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013507.html > > > > I did a double take on that too - I thought first "may be this is HTML > > email not translating bold into text format properly or something". > > > > I ended up reading it as follows: > > > > > > Best of luck > > > ASSCRACK. He's WAY too polite. > > > > As in, Rayzer saying Boyce is an ASSCRACK, and not approving. > > > rayzer can of course clear it up, but thing is, he is replying > to this post : > > https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2016-June/013473.html > > Notice that boyce's message (fowarded by me) ends with "best of > luck" > > And according to rayzer that should have been "best of luck > asscrack" - boyce should have insulted me. But he didn't so > rayzer thinks "he's way too polite". Damn I'm slow. Sorry bout that :/ Hangs head in self humiliating shame... shuffles off as quietly as possibly conceivable... hoping no one notices he was even there in the first plac From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 11:44:02 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 15:44:02 -0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Reminder to stay on-topic In-Reply-To: <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <8424e8e4-3d77-14e3-14ad-603f0cd566fc@gmx.com> <4b1100b593e57824092f0178c53a2e40@cryptolab.net> <20160624040030.GP6268@x220-a02> <576d5f6b.87341f0a.cbb4e.3926@mx.google.com> <1466786930.4951.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <576d7f3d.890d1f0a.2b3d5.7c09@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:48:50 -0500 psychoquinn wrote: > With freedom of speech, comes freedom to decide what to ignore. To > flood a mailing list with off-topic and garbage posts, intrudes upon > the freedom of speech dude, you can't be that retarded There's no way for A's freedom of speech to intrude upon B's freedom of speech. The only way to 'intrude' upon freedom of speech is by means of CENSORSHIP. > for the participants of that list who want to > discuss the named topic. the named topic of your cesspool is 'tor' and that's why I discussed. I discussed your fake anonimity network and your criminal activites related to it. Not to mention, there have been probably hundreds of people posting 'off topic' garbage and none were banned. But we all know what kind of retarded fraud you are quinn. Your 'arguments' aren't exactly surprising nor valid. > From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jun 24 19:28:04 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:28:04 -0700 Subject: Tor is anti-censorship software In-Reply-To: <576c1f74.45c41f0a.878b0.488a@mx.google.com> References: <0ac227aaadc17aac5d57ddd9ba20ea34@openmailbox.org> <576c1f74.45c41f0a.878b0.488a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1ec2eb1e082a3556af9e171dc2125986@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > juan: > Thanks Spencer. > Ofc xD Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 19:16:09 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 22:16:09 -0400 Subject: How is Phantom coming along? In-Reply-To: <416c6084-fea2-4d39-a829-33082b29f982@googlegroups.com> References: <416c6084-fea2-4d39-a829-33082b29f982@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 6/24/16, behnam rousta wrote: > Excuse me. > I need a table of comparison between phantom, tor, and i2p. > their differences like routing algorithm, communication protocol, connection > type and more like this. > if anyone can help please do me a favor and show me a table or something to > make me understood their differences. > Thank you guys. There was a hidden wiki at one point, don't know if still there. I2P may be harder for some to understand than tor and phantom. For phantom just review these, and ask list if any questions... http://www.magnusbrading.com/phantom/phantom-design-paper.pdf http://www.magnusbrading.com/phantom/phantom-implementation-paper.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYM_zog5Su4 Let the mailing list know if you port the code to your platform. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 19:52:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 22:52:56 -0400 Subject: [tor-dev] Freenet + Onioncat: Is the traffic welcome? In-Reply-To: <8166e02faa6e3dc1bdc03ace7ffecf31.squirrel@_> References: <58ea0313344582c6a3d818ee3b8a61be.squirrel@_> <87twgika3x.fsf@riseup.net> <8166e02faa6e3dc1bdc03ace7ffecf31.squirrel@_> Message-ID: On 6/24/16, konstant at mail2tor.com wrote: > Chinese users can reach Freenet again with Tor. China blocks Freenet with > DPI for a long time. This use case is nice to hear. Compared to other networks and attack vectors it's not the best at, Tor has put good effort into and is rather strong at getting around DPI type censorship. Other nets can probably learn something from tor re this. >> As Roger suggested, we should be aware of how much load this project adds >> to the Tor network. > Easy. The Tor seednodes can track unique addresses they see. Yes any unix packet filter can count this by IPv6 netblock. (Different example, to count tor / i2p clearnet, that needs done by UID.) From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:02:37 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:02:37 -0400 Subject: [tor-dev] Freenet + Onioncat: Is the traffic welcome? In-Reply-To: References: <58ea0313344582c6a3d818ee3b8a61be.squirrel@_> <3ac522f3cceb8cd72a4f2dbd356c973e.squirrel@_> Message-ID: On 6/23/16, grarpamp wrote: > Don't forget to add around 1000+ ms latency. Should say that on average tor's not that high, but as to prudently setting somewhat higher timeouts, especially for initial setup where the '+' may indeed apply. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:23:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:23:55 -0400 Subject: Russia mandates backdoors, data retention next Message-ID: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/06/24/1825242/russia-lawmakers-pass-spying-law-that-requires-encryption-backdoors-call-surveillance http://www.dailydot.com/politics/encryption-backdoor-russia-fsb-bill-passes/ A bill that was proposed recently in the Russian Duma to make cryptographic backdoors mandatory in all messaging apps, has passed. Patrick Howell O'Neill, reports for DailyDot:A massive surveillance bill is now on its way to becoming law in Russia. The "anti-terrorism" legislation includes a vast data-eavesdropping and -retention program so that telecom and internet companies have to record and store all customer communications for six months, potentially at a multitrillion-dollar cost. Additionally, all internet firms have to provide mandatory backdoor access into encrypted communications for the FSB, the Russian intelligence agency and successor to the KGB. The bill, with support from the ruling United Russia party, passed Friday in the Duma, Russia's lower legislative house, with 277 votes for, 148 against, and one abstaining. It now moves to Russia's Federal Council and the Kremlin, where it's expected to pass into law. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:28:53 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:28:53 -0400 Subject: Russia mandates backdoors, data retention next In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: AKA, Zenaan's beloved Russia fucks him in the ass. Before bending to pickup something pretty, check your six first... From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:47:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:47:23 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/23/16, Karl Semich wrote: > I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure spaces > such as shielded rooms. Tech spaces can probably be created anywhere, yet by nature of usability, such tech must be surrounded by the most antithetical of environs. Anymore, even getting to such a facility is insecure. To have secure convo, one must now go away, away from digital, far away, out to nature. Disconnect. Disappear. Become. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:59:07 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:59:07 -0400 Subject: Philip K. Dick foreshadowing the post-Snowden world Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cyberpunk/comments/497ndj/philip_k_dick_foreshadowing_the_postsnowden_world/ The android and the human, 1972 From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 21:17:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:17:55 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576D52B0.5050003@riseup.net> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> <576C6E93.5030601@pilobilus.net> <576D52B0.5050003@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/24/16, Rayzer wrote: > http://i.imgur.com/GW3bhD4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/kdNOe5u.jpg http://hackaday.com/2015/10/19/tempest-a-tin-foil-hat-for-your-electronics-and-their-secrets/ http://www.cordsen.com/index.php/services/tempest-certification http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/converting-microwave-oven-emp-resistant-enclosure/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjJ6uSYWWc https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CI_dJ8huDlA/Vr3Vr1mG8BI/AAAAAAAARg0/KAgpdHonHcE/s1600/SCIF.jpg https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=scif+tin+foil+room From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 20:59:32 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 00:59:32 -0300 Subject: Russia mandates backdoors, data retention next In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <576e0152.5427370a.b9a5f.ffffe9fd@mx.google.com> On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:28:53 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > AKA, Zenaan's beloved Russia fucks him in the ass. and, you keep posting tor spam - did you miss the posts from tor's scumbag supreme syverson, admiting yet again what kind of joke tor is? 'local' 'adversaries' - ha ha ha. > Before bending to pickup something pretty, check your six first... From gmkarl at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 03:04:20 2016 From: gmkarl at gmail.com (Karl Semich) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 06:04:20 -0400 Subject: Publicly Usable Secure Rooms In-Reply-To: <576C1987.7040203@pilobilus.net> References: <576BB668.2040108@gmail.com> <576C1987.7040203@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <576E5724.90606@gmail.com> On 06/23/2016 01:16 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 06/23/2016 06:14 AM, Karl Semich wrote: > > I was wondering if anybody had any information on public secure > > spaces such as shielded rooms. > > > I would like to index such places, and create motion towards such > > security being accessible for all people. > > The word "honeypot" comes to mind at once. If "you and yours" did not > set up, maintain, and control access to such a space, "secure" does > not belong in its name. > > The presence of the word "public" also raises an eyebrow, as "no > security protocol has ever survived contact with end users." > > Maybe I exaggerate a little. Maybe not. These objections do not rule > out the possibility of something useful being accomplished, only point > out challenges that will need creative solutions and constant attention. I think that even spaces compromised by only some parties would be helpful to people who have less security otherwise. Similarly, so many people do actually use Tor and other products. Would constant, public logging, during construction and use, be any significant help with such concerns? Sometimes I imagine a space with both private and publicly logged areas, trade-offs for those with different needs. Perhaps an "open-source" approach could help, where any can contribute concerns or improvements for the next go-around? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From deorgie at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 01:45:02 2016 From: deorgie at gmail.com (Deorge Chesterton) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 08:45:02 +0000 Subject: moderation test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try again, thought police, we still got it Oh yeah, and why would a list full of well-read, realist dystopian, borderline nihilist, self-proclaimed anarchists, even remotely want any part of such a thing? Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: BVAUGHN74! /golf claps Peace seems never to arrive without a pre-emptive period of chaos. Don't take that away from all of us Dr. Ian Malcolms. How will we stay on top of the food chain if we are afraid to speak? Nice meeting you all, by the way. For all I know I'm probably looking like an ass for not knowing whatever prompted this and simply reacting irrationality as a result. Back to the lurker dungeon. be excellent to each other whenever and wherever possible, my ninjacompoops On Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 02:31 wrote: > <> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1263 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bvaughn74 at gmx.com Sat Jun 25 01:23:28 2016 From: bvaughn74 at gmx.com (bvaughn74 at gmx.com) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 10:23:28 +0200 Subject: moderation test Message-ID: <> From bvaughn74 at gmx.com Sat Jun 25 02:03:00 2016 From: bvaughn74 at gmx.com (bvaughn74 at gmx.com) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 11:03:00 +0200 Subject: moderation test Message-ID: > be excellent to each other http://i.imgur.com/2Zlj7iM.jpg -----Original message----- Sent: Saturday, 25 June 2016 at 10:45:02 From: "Deorge Chesterton" To: bvaughn74 at gmx.com,cypherpunks at cpunks.org Subject: Re: moderation test Try again, thought police, we still got it Oh yeah, and why would a list full of well-read, realist dystopian, borderline nihilist, self-proclaimed anarchists, even remotely want any part of such a thing? Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: BVAUGHN74! /golf claps Peace seems never to arrive without a pre-emptive period of chaos. Don't take that away from all of us Dr. Ian Malcolms. How will we stay on top of the food chain if we are afraid to speak? Nice meeting you all, by the way. For all I know I'm probably looking like an ass for not knowing whatever prompted this and simply reacting irrationality as a result. Back to the lurker dungeon. be excellent to each other whenever and wherever possible, my ninjacompoops On Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 02:31 wrote: > <> > From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 01:58:52 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 11:58:52 +0300 Subject: moderation test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > For all I know I'm probably looking like an ass for not knowing whatever > prompted this and simply reacting irrationality as a result. > As a matter of fact, that was really nice reaction from a borderline nihilist, Deorge :D 2016-06-25 11:45 GMT+03:00 Deorge Chesterton : > > Try again, thought police, we still got it > > Oh yeah, and why would a list full of well-read, realist dystopian, borderline nihilist, self-proclaimed anarchists, even remotely want any part of such a thing? > > Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: BVAUGHN74! /golf claps > > Peace seems never to arrive without a pre-emptive period of chaos. Don't take that away from all of us Dr. Ian Malcolms. How will we stay on top of the food chain if we are afraid to speak? > > Nice meeting you all, by the way. For all I know I'm probably looking like an ass for not knowing whatever prompted this and simply reacting irrationality as a result. > > Back to the lurker dungeon. be excellent to each other whenever and wherever possible, my ninjacompoops > > > On Sat, Jun 25, 2016, 02:31 wrote: >> >> <> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1512 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 24 19:29:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:29:34 +1000 Subject: a view of Japan from =?utf-8?Q?rebellious_?= =?utf-8?Q?author_-_What_Japanese_Media_Doesn=E2=80=99t?= Want You to Say! Message-ID: <20160625022934.GY6268@x220-a02> This started reading like an MSM style "Japan suffering US imperialist military subjugation" op-ed. Refrishingly, did not turn out that way... trigger warning: if you are Japanese, or a Japanese apologist, you may well find this embarrassing to the point of confront. What Japanese Media Doesn’t Want You to Say! 22.06.2016 Author: Andre Vltchek http://journal-neo.org/2016/06/22/what-japanese-media-doesnt-want-you-to-say/ My intention is - we must confront how various people actually are (at least as far as we can determine the general nature of a people based on historical facts). Whether this op-ed delivers on that is a purely personal matter of course. Half way through, can't stop reading... enjoy. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jun 24 19:43:24 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:43:24 +1000 Subject: How is Phantom coming along? In-Reply-To: References: <416c6084-fea2-4d39-a829-33082b29f982@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <20160625024324.GZ6268@x220-a02> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:16:09PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > For phantom just review these, and ask list if any questions... > > http://www.magnusbrading.com/phantom/phantom-design-paper.pdf Very enjoyable read thanks, but damn, 68 pages, I'm up to page 6, and still have no idea about the design. It's hard work getting informed... > http://www.magnusbrading.com/phantom/phantom-implementation-paper.pdf > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYM_zog5Su4 > > Let the mailing list know if you port the code to your platform. From admin at pilobilus.net Sat Jun 25 10:13:31 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:13:31 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy theorist definition. In-Reply-To: References: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576EBBBB.60807@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/25/2016 11:03 AM, Александр wrote: > > 2016-06-25 17:53 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness >: > > Conspiracy theorist: Someone who questions the statements of known > liars. The "conspiracy theory" meme was widely circulated by the CIA in a 1967 memo to its private sector press agents titled “Countering Criticism of the Warren Commission Report,” advising them in detail on how to assist in the suppression of independent investigation of the JFK murder. This document was released in 1976 in response to a New York Times FOIA filing, as CIA Document 1035-960. "Innuendo of such seriousness affects not only the individual concerned, but also the whole reputation of the American government. Our organization itself is directly involved: among other facts, we contributed information to the investigation. Conspiracy theories have frequently thrown suspicion on our organization, for example by falsely alleging that Lee Harvey Oswald worked for us. The aim of this dispatch is to provide material countering and discrediting the claims of the conspiracy theorists, so as to inhibit the circulation of such claims in other countries. Background information is supplied in a classified section and in a number of unclassified attachments." The agency also directed its members “to employ propaganda assets to [negate] and refute the attacks of the critics. Book reviews and feature articles are particularly appropriate for this purpose.” Full text: http://www.jfklancer.com/CIA.html Today, State sponsored propagandists have embraced the cottage industry promoting "conspiracy theories" on the Internet as an effective weapon of information warfare. Although the Internet makes censorship of unwelcome information difficult or impossible once it is in circulation, staining such information with the taint of "lunatick bullshit" is easy: Find or create false, easily disproven narratives describing the same subject matter, and assure that they are prominently featured and vigorously promoted by click bait website operators whose sites are already loaded with obviously delusional content. Social media promotion by a self recruiting army of volunteer nut jobs does the rest. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXbru7AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqmZEH/1U46qKKX83Ua9cH1LvyBnlu 2QamCK+f6QrJbWTbYXqVETxo+E+fIGszgZxHooDo9pgfkDLdhd8dk/9fE1Rd/WKb RzDMqYrS7jL3EkXGK9awGzs/+tiC4cP3mTRk9seFhgY7Hq6LJI3ew5yNBA5L4yEf 2KIeYZXSJSEJI6zdZyhyFQXQAy/toPybeO1N2PrqD1/PVzL4WzOUbhERVLp7Fn6A O+s0VjaCOk2WjgzNckkd7W2SIKbtWt8Go4YaWmF/RBKdlogSBgMJYXf9bXdVGj9N 2ilO96USiKyB5OLaHMo3CBLaM1VIzC2s81Gi2C9vRZzJSfd+u2TYaFdqqNNZRnI= =U0eu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kurt.buff at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 13:31:30 2016 From: kurt.buff at gmail.com (Kurt Buff) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:31:30 -0700 Subject: U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-3 that police may use evidence found in illegal stops. In-Reply-To: References: <20160625145054.GD6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: "The uncontested absurdities of today are the accepted slogans of tomorrow. The come to be accepted by degrees, by precedent, by implication, by erosion, by default, by dint of constant pressure on one side and constant retreat on the other - until the day when they are suddenly declared to be the country's official ideology." -Ayn Rand On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 11:29 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/25/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> http://www.dailydot.com/politics/supreme-court-justice-search-arrest-warrant/?tw=dd > > http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf > > As before... torpedoing their Constitution. > > Keep on twisting the words and phrases, especially > at Common Law, a little more here, a little more there, > and so the garrot turns. Maybe they'll an hero by 2076. > After all, 300 years... plenty time to either get it right or gtfo. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 09:32:43 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:32:43 -0300 Subject: Conspiracy theorist definition. In-Reply-To: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> References: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576eb1d3.ce9b370a.64eec.ffffe8af@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:53:56 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Conspiracy theorist: > Someone who questions the statements of known liars. Hehehe =) Also a conspiracy is a secret criminal plan. Governments are full of those. And even worse for the anti-conspiracy nutcases : http://www.dictionary.com/browse/conspiracy?s=t "4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act." OOPS. You don't even need secrecy to have a conspiracy. It clearly follows then that whatever governments do is 'conspiracy'. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 11:29:37 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:29:37 -0400 Subject: U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-3 that police may use evidence found in illegal stops. In-Reply-To: <20160625145054.GD6268@x220-a02> References: <20160625145054.GD6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 6/25/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > http://www.dailydot.com/politics/supreme-court-justice-search-arrest-warrant/?tw=dd http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-1373_83i7.pdf As before... torpedoing their Constitution. Keep on twisting the words and phrases, especially at Common Law, a little more here, a little more there, and so the garrot turns. Maybe they'll an hero by 2076. After all, 300 years... plenty time to either get it right or gtfo. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 11:31:53 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 14:31:53 -0400 Subject: moderation test Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 11:03:00AM +0200, bvaughn74 at gmx.com wrote: > > be excellent to each other > > http://i.imgur.com/2Zlj7iM.jpg Provenance and context? If this is old, then you're sick. If this is new and related, then either someone's fucking around, or people have blood on their hands. Such sadness. So yes, please, be excellent to each other... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3fx6TugN7g From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 12:28:43 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 15:28:43 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?SVQtbWVlcyBKw7VodmlzdDog4oCeVVNBIHZhbGl0c3VzIGphIEtpbSBEb3Rjb20gcsO2?= =?UTF-8?B?w7Z2aXNpZCBuZWxpIGFhc3RhdCBtaW51IGVsdXN04oCc?= Message-ID: http://ekspress.delfi.ee/kuum/it-mees-johvist-usa-valitsus-ja-kim-dotcom-roovisid-neli-aastat-minu-elust?id=74201189 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/from-file-sharing-to-prison-a-megaupload-programmer-tells-his-story/ The whole case was blackmail. They were just waiting for the defendant to get tired of fighting and give up. It’s not the one who’s in the right who wins, but the one who has the most staying power. They never send you straight to where you’re going. You drive through a number of other prisons first. If you make trouble, say by complaining to the judge that your rights are being violated, you’re put through this thing called "diesel therapy." They bounce you back and forth between prisons like a ping-pong ball. I was taken from Alexandria to Brooklyn, from there to Pennsylvania, from there back to Brooklyn, and from there to Pennsylvania again—a total of about 16 hours of driving. Before I got to where I was meant to be going, I was put in two different prisons, one of which was a supermax prison where they keep the worst of the worst. I was there for 10 days. There are more than 2.5 million prisoners in the United States. Almost one percent of the whole population is in prison, and that’s a huge problem. But what surprised me most was that there are private prisons in the US. The more prisoners, the more money you get from the state. It’s big business. Estonia was the only country that didn’t give its people any support. All the other countries gave their prisoners at least some pocket money. Even 10-20 euros would’ve been a great help, because you don’t even get normal soap for free there, not to mention shampoo. You’re given toothpaste whose "best before" was in 2005 and two 20 x 40 cm towels for your whole body for half a year. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 12:36:26 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 15:36:26 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_IT=2Dmees_J=C3=B5hvist=3A_=E2=80=9EUSA_valitsus_ja_Kim_Dotcom_?= =?UTF-8?Q?r=C3=B6=C3=B6visid_neli_aastat_minu_elust=E2=80=9C?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How are you different today to the person you were a year ago? Prison didn’t change me. It was like detention in school. But I’m different today from what I was before 2012. I have less trust in all sorts of state affairs, especially big countries. I saw the dark side of the American dream in all its glory. Many people think it’s some paradise. Actually, it’s just one big system. The US, China, Russia—take your pick. It sounds like you’ve lost faith in American democracy. Can you call forcing your policies on other countries "democracy?" If you have the money, you have the right. Since the US is a capitalist country, that principle is particularly relevant. I don’t believe the US will help Estonia in any war. They also promised to help Ukraine, but did they really? How did your son cope with all of this? He’s 13. He knows exactly what happened. He’s not a kid any more. What do you dream of? All my dreams were fulfilled by the time I was 25. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 14:45:18 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 17:45:18 -0400 Subject: Russia mandates backdoors, data retention next In-Reply-To: <576e0152.5427370a.b9a5f.ffffe9fd@mx.google.com> References: <576e0152.5427370a.b9a5f.ffffe9fd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/24/16, juan wrote: > tor's scumbag supreme syverson, admiting yet again what kind of > joke tor is? 'local' 'adversaries' - ha ha ha. Every tool has tech strength and weakness, things it admits and doesn't or spins away from, open / closed source, different goals, org level purity, corruption, influences, etc. Save some top secret revelation yet to come, Tor is well characterized by now by a lot of people in many regards. It's really good at some things, and plainly sucks at others. Research. read, write, and choose tools to fit purpose at hand, or don't, or stay off the net. It's pretty simple. From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 08:03:44 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:03:44 +0300 Subject: Conspiracy theorist definition. In-Reply-To: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> References: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-06-25 17:53 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > Conspiracy theorist: > Someone who questions the statements of known liars. > hm... sometimes he questions the statements of UNknown (yet) liars too :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 857 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jun 25 17:06:30 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:06:30 -0600 Subject: moderation test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <576F1C86.3090003@riseup.net> On 06/25/2016 02:23 AM, bvaughn74 at gmx.com wrote: > <> > So maybe you could share what you've learned? I have noticed that it takes longer for messages to show up in this list, compared to some others that I subscribe to. I suppose that I could calculate delays, and see if there's any dependence on time of day. But I don't really care, and have better things to do :) From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 25 02:16:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:16:34 +1000 Subject: moderation test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160625091634.GB6268@x220-a02> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 10:23:28AM +0200, bvaughn74 at gmx.com wrote: > <> Sigh. So now, besides lots of blank lines and a few fuckity fucks to filter out the fascists, we need Yeah! From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jun 25 15:35:58 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:35:58 -0300 Subject: Russia mandates backdoors, data retention next In-Reply-To: References: <576e0152.5427370a.b9a5f.ffffe9fd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <576f06f8.412bc80a.3659c.745e@mx.google.com> On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 17:45:18 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 6/24/16, juan wrote: > > tor's scumbag supreme syverson, admiting yet again what > > kind of joke tor is? 'local' 'adversaries' - ha ha ha. > > Every tool has tech strength and weakness, Your are both dishonest and fucking stupid grarpamp Did you denounce the cesorship in tor-talk? Nope. And what are you doing now? Vomiting more tor propaganda. things it admits > and doesn't or spins away from, open / closed source, > different goals, org level purity, corruption, influences, etc. > Save some top secret revelation yet to come, Tor is well > characterized by now by a lot of people in many regards. > It's really good at some things, and plainly sucks at others. > Research. read, write, and choose tools to fit purpose > at hand, or don't, or stay off the net. It's pretty simple. From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 25 07:50:54 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:50:54 +1000 Subject: U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-3 that police may use evidence found in illegal stops. Message-ID: <20160625145054.GD6268@x220-a02> Americans: your country is looking more f@!#$! by the week. Russians: why are you desperately chasing the West's digital fascism legislation world title?! Damn the world's getting depressing... Subject: U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-3 that police may use evidence found in illegal stops. U.S. Supreme Court rules 5-3 that police may use evidence found in illegal stops The US Supreme Court ruled that police may use evidence in court, even if it is obtained by unconstitutional means, provided the suspect has one or more outstanding arrest warrants. We have been unable to locate the part of the Constitution that says it can be ignored if someone has an outstanding arrest warrant. The Daily Dot. 20 June 2016 (Story) http://www.dailydot.com/politics/supreme-court-justice-search-arrest-warrant/?tw=dd From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jun 25 07:53:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:53:56 +1000 Subject: Conspiracy theorist definition. Message-ID: <20160625145356.GE6268@x220-a02> Conspiracy theorist: Someone who questions the statements of known liars. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 01:59:51 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu Just links. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 09:11:37 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 09:11:37 -0700 Subject: [tor-talk] Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160626121527.GG26799@x220-a02> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <20160626094405.GF26799@x220-a02> <20160626121527.GG26799@x220-a02> Message-ID: <576FFEB9.1060401@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 05:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Both Juan and Putin claim (vehemently) that Tor is a creation and a tool > of the NSA, the CIA and the American war machine, and that it cannot be > trusted as a consequence of these facts. Don't trust ANYONE. But just because you don't trust doesn't mean you can't use items, or ally with people. Rr Ps. NASA didn't trust it's new laser measuring system and did trust it's old ally the 'drop-gauge' and the Hubble telescope ended up needing an expensive 'monocle' delivered. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 05:47:11 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 09:47:11 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160626112731.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <20160626112731.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: I remembered an old fool story, hihi... ;) Few years ago, some Noisebridgers (members of a hackerspace in San Francisco) asked Jake's banishment saying that he was a FBI agent inside Tor, who betrayed Assange and Wikileaks, hahaha!! ;D Lovely Sunday everybody! <3 Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 323 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jun 26 04:27:31 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 14:27:31 +0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: <20160626112731.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 04:59:51AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > > Just links. lol. did the onions confirm or deny this? if true, they are even more fucked up. (just waiting to learn some new words from juan). From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 14:11:16 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:11:16 -0400 Subject: Tor funding Message-ID: On 6/26/16, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > ... the most important part of that transcript IMO is the > discussion about funding. Both Mike Perry and Jacob Appelbaum agreed > in it that the current funding model "comprimises" the project (their word). > Why can't Tor use a funding model similar to Wikipedia? Tor actually does have an individual donation component. Though it doesn't yet go into statistics about number and size distribution of transactions for each funding method, there's at least some level of breakout in the annual report and filings. Tor has an element of "can't teach old dog new tricks", or at least "we're moving, slowly..." the Tor dog has received a lot of "compromised" (from some minds or global perspectives) money. Some principals in tor grew up in certain spheres of work, for which say, writing proposals for, and getting, government grants, is what they're good at. Contracts bids are of course more one sided than bilateral interest work or grant requests. Public sector work / careers (Government, University) are just naturally that way. Others are good at courting large private foundations / NGOs, some of those not everyone would agree on either, and some possibly funded in turn by similar objectionables. > If you just stood up and said, "Help us get out of this Faustian bargain," > the people and organizations that rely on your software would certainly help > find a way to raise the money needed to support your work. Maybe some of this needs to be thrown out to some sort of community approval model. Maybe a growing percentage moratorium on objectionables, and such a stand up announcement, is part of that. Some even say remove all the program outreach money to a separate entity. With other folks just coding for BTC. Balancing and transitioning is hard. > For better or for worse Tor is currently synonymous > with online anonymity (or the best semblance of it available), in the same > way Wikipedia is synonymous with online encyclopedia. Maybe tor just got "lucky" here, who knows. One thing that should be thought about is any undue mass effect, and how to help other projects in the space [1] that are small or lack the above historically conjoined funding talent and sources, yet whose code, ideas, and papers are seen as important / competing work, or have been used by larger projects. Monopolies in any field are usually not a good thing, so you want to be quite careful about creating or sustaining them. And continually reevaluate, as a process, if what you're funding and coding is still worthy of your efforts. [1] Anon overlays, messaging, storage, crypto, activism, etc. [Sorry for subject change it didn't fit original of that blogger, and for gmail thread breakage.] From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jun 26 14:11:36 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:11:36 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: WORD. At 05:02 PM 6/26/2016, juan wrote: >On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 >grarpamp wrote: > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > > > This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the likes > of grarpamp. > > It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so called > 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get > money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. > > ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this > very moment. > > Only retards would care about the fact that one of them also > worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. > > Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts have > over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. They > are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING NOT. >I > I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to miss > this point. > > > > > https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > > > > Just links. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 17:27:51 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:27:51 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> DUDE IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING'S COMPROMISED YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT! I don't think anyone who actually uses tor as more than 'something their neighbour told them to try so they try it once' actually BELIEVES tor is the ultimate in anonymity but... (see the shouting at the top) On 06/26/2016 02:11 PM, John Young wrote: > WORD. > > At 05:02 PM 6/26/2016, juan wrote: >> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 >> grarpamp wrote: >> >> > >> https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ >> > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 >> >> >> This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the likes >> of grarpamp. >> >> It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so called >> 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get >> money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. >> >> ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this >> very moment. >> >> Only retards would care about the fact that one of them also >> worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. >> >> Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts have >> over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. They >> are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING NOT. >> I >> I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to miss >> this point. >> >> >> > >> https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu >> > >> > Just links. > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 07:51:50 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:51:50 +0300 Subject: Brexit Signals the End of the Neocon's "End of History" In-Reply-To: <20160626134231.GI26799@x220-a02> References: <20160626134231.GI26799@x220-a02> Message-ID: > > Brexit Signals the End of the Neocons. > Amen. May it be so. but i'm afraid, we'll need something more than Britain's retirement from EU for that. Well, the "end of the neocons" should start somewhere... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 393 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 14:55:47 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:55:47 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 6/26/16, juan wrote: > This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the likes > of grarpamp. To be clear, content of any links is not mine. Posted for careful analysis and respectful discussion, including any you may have to offer. I have nothing more to say. Peace. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 14:02:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 18:02:15 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the likes of grarpamp. It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so called 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this very moment. Only retards would care about the fact that one of them also worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts have over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. They are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING NOT. I I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to miss this point. > https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > > Just links. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 19:07:56 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:07:56 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 06:08 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:27:51 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> DUDE IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING'S COMPROMISED YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT! > > But tor isn't compromised!! What are you talking about? Are you > trying to scare people off tor? > > See what kind dishonest asshole you are rayzer? Dishonest... Really? Show me the discrepancy in any position I've taken at ANY TIME ... Troll. > > > And in reality, the idea that you can 'work' with the > compromised-by-design, pentagon's fake-anonimity network, is the > kind of nonsense that...gov't agents wanting to entrap people > would say. > > Do tell. Some proof of that hypothesis Troll. FWIW I CAN PROVE compromised networks STILL accomplish a lot. ANY ORGANIZATION, political, corporate, you-name-it that has ever been existed has been infiltrated by feds/other corporations, opposition ... yet SOMEHOW they manage to get some things done. Same applies to HumInt networks in war zones... Troll. Same applies to Tor... It's not exceptional. Like you... Troll. Rr >> I don't think anyone who actually uses tor as more than 'something >> their neighbour told them to try so they try it once' actually >> BELIEVES tor is the ultimate in anonymity but... (see the shouting at >> the top) >> >> >> On 06/26/2016 02:11 PM, John Young wrote: >>> WORD. >>> >>> At 05:02 PM 6/26/2016, juan wrote: >>>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 >>>> grarpamp wrote: >>>> >>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ >>>>> http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 >>>> >>>> This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the >>>> likes of grarpamp. >>>> >>>> It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so >>>> called 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get >>>> money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. >>>> >>>> ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this >>>> very moment. >>>> >>>> Only retards would care about the fact that one of them >>>> also worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts have >>>> over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. >>>> They are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING >>>> NOT. I >>>> I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to >>>> miss this point. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu >>>>> Just links. >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 19:21:55 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:21:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: How to identify a sociopath / psychopath In-Reply-To: <20160627020431.GA28297@x220-a02> References: <20160627020431.GA28297@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57708DC3.6000706@riseup.net> It's as simple as ABC No anxiety No bonds No conscience Donald Trump is classic btw eBook, Snakes In Suits... For free (as in you don't pay) https://mega.nz/#!eM8gwI4Y!EKlQNkgQKUwhhilMEdSXU2VSyRdD6KFYNEqHVTJMdUE On 06/26/2016 07:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > How to identify a sociopath / psychopath? > > > Have you ever felt the urge to throw one of your group's leading > lights and a principled and staunch man, under the bus? > > Do you notice you occasionally get caught up in a public lynch > mobbing, which in hindsight was a less than admirable move? > > Have you ever been involved in a conversation where uncomfortablly > powerful/ confronting questions are asked which challenge > conventional thinking or the status quo, and instead of supporting > the questioner, you tried to defend the indefensible until it was > obvious the indefensible could no longer be defended? > > > Is it possible that for you, the ends ("I/we are trying to save the > world") justifies the means ("an evil is done now, under my watch")? > > > Is it really too radical to suggest that instead of justifying an > evil, it might be better to just say no? > To support the staunch and principled man or woman in uncomfortable > times? > To identify and support humility and humanity, to display a little > empathy? > > > > So you say you need the wood for what you're building, but how does > heartlessness make a better world? > > > Does justifying an evil now, in pursuance of a purportedly better > world, make you just a little bit sociopathic? > > anon. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 02:44:05 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:44:05 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: <20160626094405.GF26799@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 04:59:51AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > > Just links. Meh, just links. THANK YOU! (I dare not CC tor-talk, even with a thanks - do let us know if you get a warning or permanent ban :) From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jun 26 09:58:44 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:58:44 +0300 Subject: [tor-talk] Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <576FFEB9.1060401@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <20160626094405.GF26799@x220-a02> <20160626121527.GG26799@x220-a02> <576FFEB9.1060401@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160626165843.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 09:11:37AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > Don't trust ANYONE. I agree. From skquinn at rushpost.com Sun Jun 26 18:04:14 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:04:14 -0500 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> On Sun, 2016-06-26 at 18:02 -0300, someone wrote: > This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the likes > of grarpamp. > > It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so called > 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get > money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. > > ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this > very moment. > > Only retards would care about the fact that one of them also > worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. [remainder snipped, but it's more of the same] I've never engaged in ad hominem attacks on this list, and I don't think they have a place here. This post starts with an ad hominem attack, and goes on to slam those who run the Tor Project (some of which are likely volunteers), while incorrectly saying they all work for the US military. To the rest of the readership on this list (besides the original poster), do you consider this acceptable? Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive discussion was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the list was not. Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we have to do to fix this? -- Shawn K. Quinn From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 20:31:35 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:31:35 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 08:16 PM, juan wrote: > Except that when I use the internet I'm not tring to hide > anything. > > And no lying piece of shit advertised the internet as > having anything to do with : > > "Anonymity Online." > > Or that the internet lets you : > > "Protect your privacy. Defend yourself > against network surveillance and traffic analysis." > > > Obfuscation... no matter if it's momentary, is 'defense'. Sometimes all you need is the time to close your laptop lid and walk out of the cafe' to avoid identification and/or capture. The onus is on the USER regarding their infosec needs vs the method of defense. For best defense do what Osama did. Throw away ALL electronic communication devices including wireline telephones and use trusted couriers, and as can bee seen, even that didn't work in the long run... because a trusted courier used a plain ol cellie. But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 19:52:32 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:52:32 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 07:04 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > I've never engaged in ad hominem attacks on this list, and I don't think > they have a place here. This post starts with an ad hominem attack, and > goes on to slam those who run the Tor Project (some of which are likely > volunteers), while incorrectly saying they all work for the US military. Why not just killfile people who post stuff that you don't want to read? > To the rest of the readership on this list (besides the original > poster), do you consider this acceptable? It's not my call. This is an unmoderated, uncensored list. I like that. If you don't like it, unsubscribe. > Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive discussion > was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the list was not. > Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we have to do to fix > this? When would that have been? I've been subscribed off and on to various versions of this list for about 20 years, and there's always been garbage. Some of the garbage has been very entertaining :) Back in the day, there was so much garbage that I had to subscribe to the filtered version, to conserve bandwidth. And even that had loads of garbage. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 20:57:49 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:57:49 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <5770A43D.5030000@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 08:44 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > I shouldn't have to. That's what community standards of decent behavior > are for. That's what moderation is for. Direct question,,, Why are you interested in changing a list's demeanor when it's ALWAYS been like this according to long term "residents"? Maybe you should just unsub if it's an issue for you. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 19:57:51 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:57:51 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. From tedks at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:12:35 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:12:35 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> Message-ID: <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> Juan doesn't get paid to recommend privacy-enhancing technology. Just to scare people away from using it. On June 26, 2016 7:57:51 PM PDT, Mirimir wrote: >So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? > >What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? > >Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 707 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:14:21 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:14:21 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770A81D.1060300@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 08:50 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > >> But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? > Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) > > That was aimed at Juan. Mercenary recruiter for NATO (Kosovo Liberation Army) and formerly Arab Legionnaire, which was a CIA op in Afghanistan early on... Yeah. He was CIA... ...and I have an interesting theory on what 'turned' him, but that's entirely off-topic. Let me just say it involved another CIA Asset AQ Khan, the Pakistani nuclear boogieman India ATTEMPTED TO turn over to US authorities, a dirty bomb made from material he could have supplied, a Riyadh shopping mall, and PNAC, that really really REALLY wanted to wrest control of OPEC away from the Saudis b/c 'they don't control the volatility of the price of oil enough'. Osama hated the Saudi government enough to do it too. http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/11/there-are-couple-of-things-about-saudi.html I suspect someone higher up in spoookland nixed his plan and he said Fuck it, and went rogue Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tedks at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:21:54 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:21:54 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> You're totally correct, but the people who actually do control this list have decided it's more important for the obvious CyberCom trolls to drive the list into the ground than it is to violate their concept of ~freedom of speech~. It really sucks that the list has been fucked over by some people who are at worst being paid to do so by a government (a possibility I've become convinced is near to the truth), or at best just assholes who didn't even have the balls to post on the al-qaeda.net version (of course, signatures indicate they were trolling the debian lists during that period). Every ecosystem attracts parasites, and the best kept gardens die by pacifism. People whom this post/subthread is about: how many people have to say they dislike your posts and killfile your email before you take the hint and stop posting? You are not contributing anything of value, and you aren't liked in this community. If this list was a party, you'd be having your circlejerk in the corner, or screaming alone, while literally everyone else ignored you. Try to feel, just for a second, the shame, isolation, and sense of social ineptitude I'm sure you have at plenty of times in your life if not most of it. That is how you should feel wherever you post to this list. Inb4 the lurkers support you in email On June 26, 2016 8:44:18 PM PDT, "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: >On Sun, 2016-06-26 at 20:52 -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 06/26/2016 07:04 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: >> > I've never engaged in ad hominem attacks on this list, and I don't >think >> > they have a place here. This post starts with an ad hominem attack, >and >> > goes on to slam those who run the Tor Project (some of which are >likely >> > volunteers), while incorrectly saying they all work for the US >military. >> >> Why not just killfile people who post stuff that you don't want to >read? > >I shouldn't have to. That's what community standards of decent behavior >are for. That's what moderation is for. > >> > To the rest of the readership on this list (besides the original >> > poster), do you consider this acceptable? >> >> It's not my call. > >As part of the community, it is your call. A simple "no, I consider >this >unacceptable" would have sufficed. > >> This is an unmoderated, uncensored list. I like that. >> If you don't like it, unsubscribe. > >That's a complete non-solution, as it means I lose all of the quality >messages along with the crap. It is throwing the proverbial baby out >with the bathwater. > >Standing up for someone's right to pollute the list with messages that, >in all honesty, contribute nothing to civil discussion, is bad enough. >Your suggestion that I unsubscribe is many times worse than that. > >> > Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive >discussion >> > was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the list was >not. >> > Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we have to do to >fix >> > this? >> >> When would that have been? I've been subscribed off and on to various >> versions of this list for about 20 years, and there's always been >> garbage. Some of the garbage has been very entertaining :) Back in >the >> day, there was so much garbage that I had to subscribe to the >filtered >> version, to conserve bandwidth. And even that had loads of garbage. > >Maybe circa 2003-2006 or so, it used to not be like this. At least, I >don't remember it being anywhere near this bad, even when there was the >occasional flaming going on. I've never seen someone spew one attack >after another after another. > >Getting banned from a mailing list, in general, should serve as a >warning that one's conduct is unacceptable. If this describes you, >recently, please heed that warning. > >-- >Shawn K. Quinn -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5261 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 20:50:28 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:50:28 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: > But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 19:06:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:06:56 -0400 Subject: [Cryptography] Fwd: Study on Trends in Crypto-Messaging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/17/16, Tom A. wrote: > fwd > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > On 2016.06.17, at 4:11 PM, Liberationtech wrote: >> >> Study on Trends in Crypto-Messaging: >> >> Another contribution in the crypto discussion: Two security researchers >> examine in their BIG SEVEN study seven encryption applications for e-mail >> and instant messaging out of the open source area and then performed a >> deeper IT-audit for the acquainted software solutions. The evaluation took >> into account the essential criteria, study fields and methods of eight >> international IT-audit manuals and identifies Ten Trends in the >> Crypto-Messaging. >> >> The comparatively studied applications include CryptoCat, OTR-XMPP clients >> such as Pidgin with the OTR-plugin, RetroShare and GoldBug, Signal, >> Surespot and Tox. >> >> http://bit.ly/1V146AS >> https://sf.net/projects/goldbug/files/bigseven-crypto-audit.pdf >> >> by Adams, David / Maier, Ann-Kathrin (2016): BIG SEVEN Study, open source >> crypto-messengers to be compared.. >> >> >> Sent by Mobile. """ Security researcher David Adams from Tokyo about the published BIG SEVEN CRYPTO-study: "We looked at the seven major open source programs for encrypted online-communication" ... The software "GoldBug - email client and instant messenger" here was ahead with excellent results and is not only very trustworthy and compliant to... """ Co-author of the study Ann-Kathrin Maier from Munich confir study deepened with a detailed audit of the crypto-program results for encrypted email and secure online chat. By our trustworthiness of this open source encryption in GoldBug." """ Therefore, the comparative BIG SEVEN study ... is recommended... as preparatory reading material for questions at the next crypto party. """ Really? Lol :) - Googling your two bogus paper authors "security researchers" turns up nothing, other than the name you stole from an unrelated real person. Shame on you. - There was no such dated post on liberationtech for you to be "forwarding" from. - If whatever is in this so called paper about other projects [1] isn't accurate, they'll be denouncing you in public just like EFF and Tor did when you lied about your affiliation with them. We are *very* interested in your project... why don't you post your "Sent by Mobile" phone number so we can talk with you? Or the phone number you used to register with google. How are the unreproducible binaries, community censorship, refusal to talk, and weasling around wikipedia and cheesy websites coming along these days? Any links yet to positive commentary by well known and respected public members of the real community, such as from anyone in the apps below [1]? If you're trying to be the next Satoshi, you're not doing a very good job. Your history of lies, fakes, and shady operations is ridiculous. Someday someone will dox you and what an interesting day that will be. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Goldbug https://sourceforge.net/projects/goldbug/ [1] briar, cryptocat, gpg, otr, mailpile, pond, retroshare, tox, signal, silent, i2p, ricochet, torchat, surespot, etc. From tedks at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 22:07:58 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:07:58 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> Juan, I don't know how you could have thought that message referred to you. You're one of the only voices of truth on this list. I read every one of your emails twice, even three times. PLEASE keep posting. On June 26, 2016 9:33:17 PM PDT, juan wrote: >On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:12:35 -0700 >Ted Smith wrote: > >> Juan doesn't get paid to recommend privacy-enhancing technology. Just >> to scare people away from using it. > > And here's another nugget from Ted : > > According to him I am `at worst an agent of some oppressive > government hoping to scare people off Tor" > > > I realize that it's quite legitimate for you to come up with > crazy conspiracy theories while denouncing people who denounce > the tor conspiracy... > > ...but anyways, do humour me, which 'oppressive government' do > I work for? =) > > I think I deserve to know =) Or at least I deserve to be > entertained a bit... > > > > > > >> >> On June 26, 2016 7:57:51 PM PDT, Mirimir wrote: >> >So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? >> > >> >What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? >> > >> >Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. >> -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 18:08:54 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:08:54 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:27:51 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > DUDE IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING'S COMPROMISED YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT! But tor isn't compromised!! What are you talking about? Are you trying to scare people off tor? See what kind dishonest asshole you are rayzer? And in reality, the idea that you can 'work' with the compromised-by-design, pentagon's fake-anonimity network, is the kind of nonsense that...gov't agents wanting to entrap people would say. > > I don't think anyone who actually uses tor as more than 'something > their neighbour told them to try so they try it once' actually > BELIEVES tor is the ultimate in anonymity but... (see the shouting at > the top) > > > On 06/26/2016 02:11 PM, John Young wrote: > > WORD. > > > > At 05:02 PM 6/26/2016, juan wrote: > >> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 > >> grarpamp wrote: > >> > >> > > >> https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > >> > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > >> > >> > >> This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the > >> likes of grarpamp. > >> > >> It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so > >> called 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to get > >> money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. > >> > >> ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At this > >> very moment. > >> > >> Only retards would care about the fact that one of them > >> also worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. > >> > >> Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts have > >> over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. > >> They are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING > >> NOT. I > >> I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to > >> miss this point. > >> > >> > >> > > >> https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > >> > > >> > Just links. > > > > > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 18:11:50 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:11:50 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <57707cfb.489d370a.da8bb.0cc2@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:04:14 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > To the rest of the readership on this list (besides the original > poster), do you consider this acceptable? OK, we are going to have some fun now. > > Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive > discussion was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the > list was not. Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we > have to do to fix this? First things first, so make scumbags like you pay for their crimes. > From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:14:03 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:14:03 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 09:16 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:57:51 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? > > To 'defend' against 'local' adversaries, the only thing that > tor allegedly does? I don't recommend anything, but it looks > like VPNs can be as good or as bad as tor. You can even nest > them, can't you. Yes, VPNs will provide as much privacy as Tor does for purely local adversaries. But if your adversary can get logs from the VPN server, or the hosting provider, you're screwed. With Tor, such adversaries would need to get logs from at least two of the three relays in circuits. And circuits change frequently, so that means lots of relays. And sure, you can nest VPNs. So a nested chain of three VPNs arguably does as much as a Tor circuit. But it's static. Or at least, I haven't figured out how to automate switching. And there's also the matter of paying for a bunch of VPNs. Anyway, I hedge my bets by accessing Tor through nested VPNs. >> What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? > > Nothing. I'd play with freenet but I don't want to install > java, so... Right. I2P also runs on Java. >> Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. > > Except that when I use the internet I'm not tring to hide > anything. Well, that's cool, if it works for you. Doesn't work for me, however. > And no lying piece of shit advertised the internet as > having anything to do with : > > "Anonymity Online." > > Or that the internet lets you : > > "Protect your privacy. Defend yourself > against network surveillance and traffic analysis." You have a point. But far too many people do seem to believe that they're anonymous on the Internet. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 05:15:27 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:15:27 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160626094405.GF26799@x220-a02> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <20160626094405.GF26799@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160626121527.GG26799@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 07:44:05PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 04:59:51AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > > https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > > > > Just links. > > Meh, just links. THANK YOU! Tor HQ cannot come back from this with the current crowd. "http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8" is devastating. To quote one of the participants at line 227 "22:14 < Yawning> I don't think I can sit in this conversation and remain civil." I can only concur. Americans in power - the insidious arrogance and pride leading to blindness, heartless comparisons between e.g. Iraq war and Mahondas Ghandi, thuggery (implied threat to sue/ take legal action, bullying, distraction/ changing topic, isis "my keyboard does not work" in the middle of this really intense conversation. Just say no more! Anyway, the conversation indicts. Has to be read. grarpamp, thank you again. Both Juan and Putin claim (vehemently) that Tor is a creation and a tool of the NSA, the CIA and the American war machine, and that it cannot be trusted as a consequence of these facts. After reading this conversation, it is impossible to disagree with both Juan and Putin on this point. So I guess this makes both Putin and Juan, "conspiracy factualists", because there certainly ain't no 'theory' to be tested any more... It is not surprising that Russia is wanting to "button the digital hatches" so to speak, given the horrific demoncratic record of the CIA since WWII - the major and very sad problem is that such legislation almost never gets unwound once the battle is over. So there's always another battle.. At line 268: "< mikeperry> also, I am completely unsure what to do about the DaveC1 thing. it seems like it will put a lot of our community at risk and cause fallout. I was excited to have a bridge to the State dept and gov't bureaucrats, but this seems like the cost is too great. forgive me if I appear to otherwise ignore this, really not sure how to handle it" Thought: If the CIA, which funds Tor via the DoD etc, really wanted an advocacy position, then there was no reason to not just keep "DaveC1" on payroll at the CIA and promote Tor. So DaveC1's attempt to get on Tor payroll directly, and be close to the core of Tor, falls apart on multiple grounds as well as this. Here's a classic at 227 "22:25 < ioerror> We [Tor] don't hire war criminals, we don't [can't be accused of] discriminate by not hiring them" (in response to the supposedly "ex-" CIA man, DaveC1, who implied the threat he would sue Tor Inc if they refused to employ him "just because he used to work for the CIA and shot citizens of Iraq" (or rather, terminated his employment it seems, now that they figured out he lied to get employed, saying he was from US State Dept). >From line 310: " 22:30 < mikeperry> I have no doubt that the CIA would find Tor useful, and its funding would not comrpromise us, but as I said then, the optics [of directly employing a (ex) CIA agent] would be so bad that the et improvement to Tor from such funding would not be worth the bad PR 22:31 < ioerror> mikeperry: Funding does compromise us 22:31 < ioerror> I am clear on that now. 22:31 < ioerror> Tor is compromised. ... 22:32 < ioerror> When we set the road map and found funders to fund us, it was different 22:32 < ioerror> we haven't done that for a long time 22:32 < ioerror> The money has corrupted us " Here's a satisfying line 332: "22:35 < DaveC1> Runa: re: the not waiting until I could disclose. Didn't have the financial resources to end one career and wait (unsure how long) to start looking for other work. I tried to be as clear as possible with Roger what my situation was without committing a felony. I obviously failed. " Yep, seems CIA agents find it real hard to -not- commit felonies, even when they are -trying- to not commit felonies. Really, the entire log is a must read. ioerror/ Jacob Applebaum - this man is staunch! No wonder Jacob was taken down. From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:26:36 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:26:36 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770a568.ce9b370a.2a0c7.ffff9c9f@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> <5770a568.ce9b370a.2a0c7.ffff9c9f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5770AAFC.4080101@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 10:04 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:50:28 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> >> >>> But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? >> >> Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) >> > > > So mirimir, given the obvious technical facts and flaws about > tor ('global' adversaries quite capable), and the 'politics' of > the tor mafia, like outright censorship, infighting, > feminazism, complete lack of transparency, complete lack of > honest funding, etc. > > What do you 'recommend' =) At a minimum, I recommend hitting Tor through at least one VPN. Or better, nested chains of at least three VPNs. To prevent leaks, I recommend using pfSense VMs as VPN gateways, and Whonix VMs for Tor. One can also use VPS running SSH onion services for old-school host chaining. Each VPS connects through a VPN, so Tor can't detect that you're chaining circuits. See . From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 21:43:20 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:43:20 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770A81D.1060300@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> <5770A81D.1060300@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770AEE8.9050907@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 10:14 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/26/2016 08:50 PM, Mirimir wrote: >> On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> >> >>> But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? >> Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) >> >> > > That was aimed at Juan. > > Mercenary recruiter for NATO (Kosovo Liberation Army) and formerly Arab > Legionnaire, which was a CIA op in Afghanistan early on... Yeah. He was > CIA... > > > ...and I have an interesting theory on what 'turned' him, but that's > entirely off-topic. Let me just say it involved another CIA Asset AQ > Khan, the Pakistani nuclear boogieman India ATTEMPTED TO turn over to US > authorities, a dirty bomb made from material he could have supplied, a > Riyadh shopping mall, and PNAC, that really really REALLY wanted to > wrest control of OPEC away from the Saudis b/c 'they don't control the > volatility of the price of oil enough'. > > Osama hated the Saudi government enough to do it too. > > http://auntieimperial.blogspot.com/2010/11/there-are-couple-of-things-about-saudi.html > > I suspect someone higher up in spoookland nixed his plan and he said > Fuck it, and went rogue Maybe he never went rogue. Follow the money. > Rr > From skquinn at rushpost.com Sun Jun 26 20:44:18 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:44:18 -0500 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> On Sun, 2016-06-26 at 20:52 -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 06/26/2016 07:04 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > > I've never engaged in ad hominem attacks on this list, and I don't think > > they have a place here. This post starts with an ad hominem attack, and > > goes on to slam those who run the Tor Project (some of which are likely > > volunteers), while incorrectly saying they all work for the US military. > > Why not just killfile people who post stuff that you don't want to read? I shouldn't have to. That's what community standards of decent behavior are for. That's what moderation is for. > > To the rest of the readership on this list (besides the original > > poster), do you consider this acceptable? > > It's not my call. As part of the community, it is your call. A simple "no, I consider this unacceptable" would have sufficed. > This is an unmoderated, uncensored list. I like that. > If you don't like it, unsubscribe. That's a complete non-solution, as it means I lose all of the quality messages along with the crap. It is throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Standing up for someone's right to pollute the list with messages that, in all honesty, contribute nothing to civil discussion, is bad enough. Your suggestion that I unsubscribe is many times worse than that. > > Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive discussion > > was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the list was not. > > Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we have to do to fix > > this? > > When would that have been? I've been subscribed off and on to various > versions of this list for about 20 years, and there's always been > garbage. Some of the garbage has been very entertaining :) Back in the > day, there was so much garbage that I had to subscribe to the filtered > version, to conserve bandwidth. And even that had loads of garbage. Maybe circa 2003-2006 or so, it used to not be like this. At least, I don't remember it being anywhere near this bad, even when there was the occasional flaming going on. I've never seen someone spew one attack after another after another. Getting banned from a mailing list, in general, should serve as a warning that one's conduct is unacceptable. If this describes you, recently, please heed that warning. -- Shawn K. Quinn From tedks at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 23:07:52 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:07:52 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> Message-ID: Why not? On June 26, 2016 10:41:12 PM PDT, Mirimir wrote: >On 06/26/2016 11:15 PM, juan wrote: > > > >> So go ahead Teddy, tell me who I work for. > >Can I play? > >I'd bet on Americans, because they're devious motherfuckers ;) > >But seriously, I can't imagine that you're acting as an agent here. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 846 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 19:26:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:26:26 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 19:07:56 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/26/2016 06:08 PM, juan wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 17:27:51 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> DUDE IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING'S COMPROMISED YOU CAN WORK WITH THAT! > > > > But tor isn't compromised!! What are you talking about? Are > > you trying to scare people off tor? > > > > See what kind dishonest asshole you are rayzer? > > > Dishonest... Really? Show me the discrepancy in any position I've > taken at ANY TIME ... Troll. From pretenting to be an anarchist who sucks the DMV's cock to being a torbot who now (maybe) admits he is promoting a 'compromised' piece of garbage? Your are too stupid rayzer - and dishonest. > > > > > > > And in reality, the idea that you can 'work' with the > > compromised-by-design, pentagon's fake-anonimity network, > > is the kind of nonsense that...gov't agents wanting to entrap people > > would say. > > > > > > Do tell. Some proof of that hypothesis Troll. What proof do I need for such self-evident fact, fucktard? You promote a fake-anomity network because that's the way to 'compromise' people. Have them use a 'compromised' tool. And what kinf of fucktard would argue that 'compromised' tools are still useful? What's the point of ever fixing anything if 'broken' tools 'work'. You can't be that fucking stupid rayzer. > > FWIW I CAN PROVE compromised networks STILL accomplish a lot. Of course. They accomplish a lot for the people who compromised them. That's the whole point, fucktard. ANY > ORGANIZATION, political, corporate, you-name-it that has ever been > existed has been infiltrated by feds/other corporations, > opposition ... yet SOMEHOW they manage to get some things done. > > > Same applies to HumInt networks in war zones... Troll. > > Same applies to Tor... It's not exceptional. Like you... Troll. > > Rr > > > >> I don't think anyone who actually uses tor as more than 'something > >> their neighbour told them to try so they try it once' actually > >> BELIEVES tor is the ultimate in anonymity but... (see the shouting > >> at the top) > >> > >> > >> On 06/26/2016 02:11 PM, John Young wrote: > >>> WORD. > >>> > >>> At 05:02 PM 6/26/2016, juan wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 > >>>> grarpamp wrote: > >>>> > >>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/4pw7bz/tor_infiltrated_by_cia_agent/ > >>>>> http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 > >>>> > >>>> This is more propaganada. It is to be expected from the > >>>> likes of grarpamp. > >>>> > >>>> It has some nice touches, like illustrating the ABC of so > >>>> called 'public choice'. First objective of the tor cunts is to > >>>> get money. And they do that by servicing the pentagon. > >>>> > >>>> ALL of those shitbags are pentagon employees. Now. At > >>>> this very moment. > >>>> > >>>> Only retards would care about the fact that one of them > >>>> also worked for the CIA. That is FUCKING IRRELEVANT. > >>>> > >>>> Furthermore, what kind of moral authority do tor cunts > >>>> have over a CIA employee. They are actually WORSE than the CIA. > >>>> They are pretending to be the 'good guys' while they are FUCKING > >>>> NOT. I > >>>> I can't believe the 'public' is so fucking retarded as to > >>>> miss this point. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://0bin.net/paste/blHWhjY9CRGB8A5X#EArYlEpN1fvqLSclzCivmmIMf3iRMvCYhi++oVYwWFu > >>>>> Just links. > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 22:41:12 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:41:12 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 11:15 PM, juan wrote: > So go ahead Teddy, tell me who I work for. Can I play? I'd bet on Americans, because they're devious motherfuckers ;) But seriously, I can't imagine that you're acting as an agent here. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 06:42:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:42:31 +1000 Subject: Brexit Signals the End of the Neocon's "End of History" Message-ID: <20160626134231.GI26799@x220-a02> Polemic, and could be shorter, but ends so succintly courtesy Ralph Waldo Emerson quote. Brexit Signals the End of the Neocon's "End of History" http://russia-insider.com/en/brexit-signals-end-neocons-end-history/ri15213 From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 20:16:06 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:16:06 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 20:57:51 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? To 'defend' against 'local' adversaries, the only thing that tor allegedly does? I don't recommend anything, but it looks like VPNs can be as good or as bad as tor. You can even nest them, can't you. > > What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? Nothing. I'd play with freenet but I don't want to install java, so... > > Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. Except that when I use the internet I'm not tring to hide anything. And no lying piece of shit advertised the internet as having anything to do with : "Anonymity Online." Or that the internet lets you : "Protect your privacy. Defend yourself against network surveillance and traffic analysis." > From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 23:16:42 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:16:42 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770C4CA.7000001@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 12:07 AM, Ted Smith wrote: > Why not? Well, OK, I could imagine that. But no more than I could imagine that you or anyone else is doing so. And with no real evidence, it's not worth worrying about. > On June 26, 2016 10:41:12 PM PDT, Mirimir wrote: >> On 06/26/2016 11:15 PM, juan wrote: >> >> >> >>> So go ahead Teddy, tell me who I work for. >> >> Can I play? >> >> I'd bet on Americans, because they're devious motherfuckers ;) >> >> But seriously, I can't imagine that you're acting as an agent here. > From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jun 26 23:33:01 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:33:01 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> On 06/26/2016 11:32 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:14:03 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> >> Yes, VPNs will provide as much privacy as Tor does for purely local >> adversaries. But if your adversary can get logs from the VPN server, >> or the hosting provider, you're screwed. > > Yes. But how easy it is for your or my local government to get > logs from an ISP in a different country? There isn't a single > answer, but I suspect in general it's not that easy. So unless > we are a relatively serious 'criminal' 'threat', we should be > safe, I'd think. Yes, it's not so easy. And even with help from their national government, it would take a while. And even VPNs that log can't retain logs forever, so you might get lucky. > And if the aim is to avoid surveillance from one's local ISP, > then the bar is low since ISPs don't have police powers...yet. True. But ISPs normally aren't a treat. It's who's pushing their buttons. Whether it's the MPAA or Los Zetas. >> With Tor, such adversaries >> would need to get logs from at least two of the three relays in >> circuits. And circuits change frequently, so that means lots of >> relays. > > True. So it would seem as if tor would be effective against > adversaries in some particular cases... > > But the fact remains. Against 'small' adversaries tor isn't > needed and against big adversaries tor doesn't work... Yes. But there are many mid-size adversaries. And you could also say that Tor works against all but the global adversaries. Plus clever ones that can exploit bugs. >> And sure, you can nest VPNs. So a nested chain of three VPNs arguably >> does as much as a Tor circuit. But it's static. Or at least, I haven't >> figured out how to automate switching. And there's also the matter of >> paying for a bunch of VPNs. > > Yes, cost would be a problem. But it's not that tor is free > either. Somebody else is paying the bill. True. But not me. > On the other hand, tor is a subsidized state project. Like any > state project the quality is limited AND it drives off > 'private' investment and development. I have no clue what percentage of Tor code has been funded by the US government. There are lots of volunteers, after all. But I agree that Tor has rather dominated the space for "anonymity systems". Every few years, I see a paper about something new, but they never seem to go anywhere. So yes, there is a problem. But I don't think that state subsidy is directly at fault. >> Anyway, I hedge my bets by accessing Tor through nested VPNs. >> >>>> What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? >>> >>> Nothing. I'd play with freenet but I don't want to install >>> java, so... >> >> Right. I2P also runs on Java. > > I think there's a C++ implementation now as well. Interesting. But I still don't like I2P, because decent performance depends on being a relay, with a public IP address and open port. One can do it with VPNs and port forwarding. But still. >>>> Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. >>> >>> Except that when I use the internet I'm not tring to hide >>> anything. >> >> Well, that's cool, if it works for you. Doesn't work for me, however. > > > Just in case, please don't think that I subscribe to the "I've > nothing to hide" bullshit or something like that. I'd love to > use a really robust darknet. But since I don't think the current > darknets are to be trusted I'm doing without them, at least for > the time being... I get that. And I suspect that you're in a friendlier environment. >>> And no lying piece of shit advertised the internet as >>> having anything to do with : >>> >>> "Anonymity Online." >>> >>> Or that the internet lets you : >>> >>> "Protect your privacy. Defend yourself >>> against network surveillance and traffic analysis." >> >> You have a point. But far too many people do seem to believe that >> they're anonymous on the Internet. > > They are, if they use tor! OK, bad joke on my part. Many Tor users have been screwed by thinking that they were "anonymous". But still, many more would have been screwed if they had done whatever they were doing without any protection. Maybe some of them, such as the ones pwned by CMU, would have been better off using VPNs. That's rather ironic, considering how much abuse Tor supporters have heaped on VPNs. But overall, I think that Tor has done much good. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 20:51:13 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:51:13 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <5770a257.cf38c80a.9cb2f.7c64@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:44:18 -0500 "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > > Getting banned from a mailing list, in general, should serve as a > warning that one's conduct is unacceptable. If this describes you, > recently, please heed that warning. Wow. Is this stupid motherfucker and worthless scumbag threatening me? Isn't that cute =) Are you going to send the marines? > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 21:04:18 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:04:18 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770a568.ce9b370a.2a0c7.ffff9c9f@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:50:28 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > > > But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? > > Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) > So mirimir, given the obvious technical facts and flaws about tor ('global' adversaries quite capable), and the 'politics' of the tor mafia, like outright censorship, infighting, feminazism, complete lack of transparency, complete lack of honest funding, etc. What do you 'recommend' =) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 22:20:39 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:20:39 -0400 Subject: [Cryptography] Digital currencies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/20/16, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/20/16, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: >> Using as much >> electricity as the island of Malta does to distribute the ledger is an >> abomination. > > Far less than all the electricity consumed by the fiat system > of the US alone... gov / fed reserve / bank buildings full of > offices / datacenters / networks / devices, hvac, payroll, healthcare, > vehicles, maintenance... all the electrons needed to make it go. Taking bitcoin as subject currency... and substituting best publicly available hardware... https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020160615101405024dzgObks806F2 you can compute the current best case electric consumption from double-sha256 hashrate... https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty and see that it's really just a drop in the bucket both net, and compared brick and mortar systems above... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_power_stations_in_the_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_energy_consumption http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 http://www.epri.com/Our-Work/Documents/Energy%20Efficiency/iPadEnergyConsumeExecSummary6-2012Final.pdf BTC hashpower has also been relatively logarithm flat since ASIC replaced everything in late 2014... http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever.png ASIC is mostly done tech, so this flattening will continue... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=81.0 meanwhile enabling potentially more distributed end user coupled mining devices models where some extra differential cost is available and accepted. Adoption there may add hashrate but not techrate.. https://21.co/ which should do interesting things to the existing competitive mining for profit sake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PJnDi_uGA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30rvfroRHTY In the end, whichever digital currencies survive, whether anonymous and decentalized, or otherwise... I'd bet that when you draw a box around it, and compare it to any other honestly boxed traditional currency system that does the same thing, they're going to use less overall power. Don't forget to add in today's gov / bank regulators, loan departments, markets, investment vehicles, etc... everything part of delivering similar features. Compared to purely digital forms of same residing in cyberspace on ethereum-like programmable bot contracts. Long term... entire populations of staff and buildings stand to be obsoleted. Welcome to the Matrix. > Bitcoin, and any other digital currency, is likely highly efficient > and becoming optimal implementations of whatever usable > monetary and other features they provide. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 21:33:17 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:33:17 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:12:35 -0700 Ted Smith wrote: > Juan doesn't get paid to recommend privacy-enhancing technology. Just > to scare people away from using it. And here's another nugget from Ted : According to him I am `at worst an agent of some oppressive government hoping to scare people off Tor" I realize that it's quite legitimate for you to come up with crazy conspiracy theories while denouncing people who denounce the tor conspiracy... ...but anyways, do humour me, which 'oppressive government' do I work for? =) I think I deserve to know =) Or at least I deserve to be entertained a bit... > > On June 26, 2016 7:57:51 PM PDT, Mirimir wrote: > >So juan, what do you recommend instead of Tor? > > > >What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? > > > >Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 21:46:37 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:46:37 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770af54.5623ed0a.2d1db.ffffa053@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 21:21:54 -0700 Ted Smith wrote: > You're totally correct, but the people who actually do control this > list have decided it's more important for the obvious CyberCom trolls > to drive the list into the ground than it is to violate their concept > of ~freedom of speech~. You mean, the people who host the list do have principles? Unlike you? I understand how you feel Ted. Having no principles while dealing with people who do have principles and respect free speech must be painful. Ah, you are giving your game away too. You are another wannabe lefty 'anarchist' who actually use robotic jargon from the US DoD and neocon establishment. "oppressive government" What kind of person uses that cliche...? (certainly no anarchist would, since the expression clearly implies the existence of 'non oppressive' government...Plus 'oppressive government' means 'government' in the pentagon's kill list) > > It really sucks that the list has been fucked over by some people who > are at worst being paid to do so by a government (a possibility I've > become convinced is near to the truth) Based on what evidence? =) Come on Ted. You are a scientist and a champion of 'transparency'. Do enlighten your readership. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 21:58:34 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 01:58:34 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: Quinn, You use a lot the adjective "decent". Please, your patterns of decency are _not_ exactly the same adopted in a punk community or even in several countries around the world. Mine, for example. I am not being ironic or agressive. I am talking too serious with you. Sorry, asking for moderation here, in this specific list, makes no sense. It would be really wrong. I was banned from tor-talk mailing list for defending a victim of brutal harassment and accusations with no proofs. This victim is my friend and is being attacked for a lynch mob. Is it not decent for you? I already had seen Jake in several talks before, but he just becomes my friend when I saw him crying for Aaron Swartz. I learned to love him after it. I was crying next to him and I was a cute, fragile, young girl, but he prefered to comfort and to hug a fat, tall, not so young man, who was crying much more than us together. Jake never knowed, but the tall North-American guy that, years ago, he hugged in a so sweet way is one of the persons that I more respect in the whole world. I could die for this guy now if he needs it, because he has a huge, amazing heart, one of the kindest souls that I know and he really believes in a better world and works hard for it. I think Jake never will remember me, but that was the first time I saw him as a friend. Jake was not a "rock star" (ridiculous expression used for some people), he was just a sad boy crying for a dead friend, for Aaron's lost dreams... I've spent a long time just seeing them hugging each other and, even not being the best of creatures, I sincerely prayed for them, asking God to bless both and Aaron' soul and his family. When Jake left my friend, I also hugged him, my huge lovely crying teddy bear... Jake saw our hug with some curiosity because he saw me watching them for a long time. I was hugging my friend and Jake saw my eyes still crying. My head was almost behind my friend's arm, because he is much, really much taller than me. Jake was not so close and made me a signal, asking me if I needed something. I smiled, so he smiled and finally left the room. After it, I already saw Jake crying, blushing, smiling, laughing, missing more friends, dead and alive... God, do you really think that would be decent to let stupid blind people destroy my friend's life?! If you think it is decent, sorry, I reject your concept of decency now and will reject it all the days of my life. I prefer to be banned of all existent mailing and discussion lists than supporting something so infamous, so disgusting... Take care and (re)think about your concepts of decency, please. Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2804 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 22:15:42 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 02:15:42 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:07:58 -0700 Ted Smith wrote: > Juan, I don't know how you could have thought that message referred > to you. You're one of the only voices of truth on this list. I read > every one of your emails twice, even three times. PLEASE keep posting. Come on Ted. We know you are pathetic, but I expected something slightly better =) I know the message refers to me because it starts with my name =) - As to the other message you sent to tor-talk, 'context' made it quite clear that it referred to me. And when you take into account that they are basically the same message... So go ahead Teddy, tell me who I work for. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 22:32:12 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 02:32:12 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:14:03 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > Yes, VPNs will provide as much privacy as Tor does for purely local > adversaries. But if your adversary can get logs from the VPN server, > or the hosting provider, you're screwed. Yes. But how easy it is for your or my local government to get logs from an ISP in a different country? There isn't a single answer, but I suspect in general it's not that easy. So unless we are a relatively serious 'criminal' 'threat', we should be safe, I'd think. And if the aim is to avoid surveillance from one's local ISP, then the bar is low since ISPs don't have police powers...yet. > With Tor, such adversaries > would need to get logs from at least two of the three relays in > circuits. And circuits change frequently, so that means lots of > relays. True. So it would seem as if tor would be effective against adversaries in some particular cases... But the fact remains. Against 'small' adversaries tor isn't needed and against big adversaries tor doesn't work... > > And sure, you can nest VPNs. So a nested chain of three VPNs arguably > does as much as a Tor circuit. But it's static. Or at least, I haven't > figured out how to automate switching. And there's also the matter of > paying for a bunch of VPNs. Yes, cost would be a problem. But it's not that tor is free either. Somebody else is paying the bill. On the other hand, tor is a subsidized state project. Like any state project the quality is limited AND it drives off 'private' investment and development. > > Anyway, I hedge my bets by accessing Tor through nested VPNs. > > >> What do you use for privacy and/or "anonymity"? > > > > Nothing. I'd play with freenet but I don't want to install > > java, so... > > Right. I2P also runs on Java. I think there's a C++ implementation now as well. > > >> Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. > > > > Except that when I use the internet I'm not tring to hide > > anything. > > Well, that's cool, if it works for you. Doesn't work for me, however. Just in case, please don't think that I subscribe to the "I've nothing to hide" bullshit or something like that. I'd love to use a really robust darknet. But since I don't think the current darknets are to be trusted I'm doing without them, at least for the time being... > > > And no lying piece of shit advertised the internet as > > having anything to do with : > > > > "Anonymity Online." > > > > Or that the internet lets you : > > > > "Protect your privacy. Defend yourself > > against network surveillance and traffic analysis." > > You have a point. But far too many people do seem to believe that > they're anonymous on the Internet. They are, if they use tor! OK, bad joke on my part. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 22:49:59 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 02:49:59 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> <5770ac33.476c370a.feea3.ffffa114@mx.google.com> <31B02DEC-589E-4B2E-A9F4-D6384CB3C359@riseup.net> <5770b625.1c35ed0a.d4cba.ffffa0b4@mx.google.com> <5770BC78.2070508@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770be2f.0da9370a.b67dd.ffffa7de@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:41:12 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 06/26/2016 11:15 PM, juan wrote: > > > > > So go ahead Teddy, tell me who I work for. > > Can I play? Of course =) > > I'd bet on Americans, because they're devious motherfuckers ;) Well, they certainly fit the 'oppressive government' bill > But seriously, I can't imagine that you're acting as an agent here. > From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jun 27 02:13:51 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 05:13:51 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5770EE4F.90808@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/27/2016 12:21 AM, Ted Smith wrote: > Every ecosystem attracts parasites, and the best kept gardens die > by pacifism. Pardon me for butting in, but I noticed you calling human beings "parasites" and given us a murderer's definition of pacifism. The other day Juan called me a motherfucker among other silly things. I take that as an endorsement, but then, I'm an anarchist. In our present context, Moderation is to Censorship as the Just War Theory is to public mass murder for private profit. I believe you will find that similar views prevail in the local community. Here's one for the lofty philosophical quotes file: The difference between pacifism and passive-ism is an appreciation of the difference between force and violence. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXcO5PAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq/oIH/3awvlGYNhGrmwVwDUzWLv7w 2ryyh3FjDVMYJHfW/kLLg2teenM6JnZL5FKi+++EB1wsyq3HxbODG0HAx8nB+VMq aXXGRJ9C9vJXNcNfvQEN+VSuN9sbvlAk6paQ9bxkSaqEV8p4Mrczh3CJqlhij5vE jVTfy8QflSE9IcBLZYtrEok2No0KW445jN6khMlYDxM1sD1cficHtW3/z7PifCn9 2eyeXo7vjpRV3bc3snumiE8C/E8qOmfLQ5EmqkpbccwSpocx0BtxX45WwhRLwS0i ZbNxK6PCcaNJ8lI8DlwxKhIEsoD4PUCI/8Od1Mr3xeipOLFvqZ5RqxcS9o8vylM= =udSn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 04:25:45 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:25:45 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160627112545.GA11426@synfin.org> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 08:57:51PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > Why do you use the Internet? It's arguably just as pwned as Tor is. I dont think the pwn3d'ness of the reguar internet is in question, or arguable, at all. I mean, if there were ANY questions, they all went away PS (post snowden)... -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 27 08:10:26 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:10:26 -0700 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577141E2.2000403@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 06:45 AM, John Newman wrote: > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 11:52:52AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the >> Soviet Union >> >> On this 75th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union the >> Russians will once again remind the world that the Red Army saved European >> civilisation as well as Russia from the Nazis > And they sure paid a high fucking price for it! Maybe things would've gone > better if Stalin hadn't purged all the competent military personnel in > the 30's.... but, no denying they turned it around. Hitler and Stalin > were both mad men. > There's historical evidence to dispute the concept that Stalin was "Mad". A biography written about a decade ago included a conversation between Stalin, and his son, who was influence peddling the family name. To the best of my recollection the convo went like this: Stalin to his son: "You are not "Stalin". I am not "Stalin". "Stalin" is that person you hear about on the radio and read about in the newspapers" Josef Stalin was aware that his persona had been hijacked and he was not in charge of all events that were occurring in his name. Compare to Hitler, who was thoroughly delusional. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 05:25:20 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:25:20 -0400 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> Message-ID: <20160627122520.GB11426@synfin.org> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:29:17PM +0000, Mr Nobody wrote: > I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into when > using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also they use > your replies to train artificial intelligence modes > > https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/index.html#creation-of-value > > > Tor users helping google with image recognition lol > > -- > http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion > There are lots of captcha libs out there that dont depend on or report back to google, e.g. secureimage (https://www.phpcaptcha.org/), I'm sure there are similar for node/js, python, etc.. -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 06:45:42 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 09:45:42 -0400 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 11:52:52AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the > Soviet Union > > On this 75th anniversary of the German invasion of the Soviet Union the > Russians will once again remind the world that the Red Army saved European > civilisation as well as Russia from the Nazis And they sure paid a high fucking price for it! Maybe things would've gone better if Stalin hadn't purged all the competent military personnel in the 30's.... but, no denying they turned it around. Hitler and Stalin were both mad men. -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jun 27 10:46:03 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:46:03 -0700 Subject: [offlist] Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160627153616.GA63934@synfin.org> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> <577141E2.2000403@riseup.net> <20160627153616.GA63934@synfin.org> Message-ID: <5771665B.4080207@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 08:36 AM, John Newman wrote: > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 08:10:26AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> There's historical evidence to dispute the concept that Stalin was "Mad". >> >> A biography written about a decade ago included a conversation between >> Stalin, and his son, who was influence peddling the family name. To the >> best of my recollection the convo went like this: >> >> Stalin to his son: "You are not "Stalin". I am not "Stalin". "Stalin" is >> that person you hear about on the radio and read about in the newspapers" >> >> Josef Stalin was aware that his persona had been hijacked and he was not >> in charge of all events that were occurring in his name. Compare to >> Hitler, who was thoroughly delusional. > > I'm not familiar with the anecdote you mention, but it sounds like > he was acknowledging his own cult of personality.. Anyway, I was > being slightly hypberbolic when I said "mad". > > I read a biography of Stalin like 6 months ago by a guy named > Khlevniuk, and the picture of Koba was not one of insanity per se.. > but he was filled with paranoia, extremely crafty, and took a "kill > first" policy with anyone that could possibly pose a threat. He > was actually planning a bunch of Jewish pogroms when he died in 53. > Beria was said to have danced in glee around the still-living but > paralyzed Stalin after his fatal stroke... of course, Beria was one > sick puppy himself. > The anecdote was mentioned on Doug Henwood's [lbo-talk] list quite a few years ago when the bio (author unknown to me now... fog of time, was mentioned in the post) was first published. I was paraphrasing, but it's a close paraphrase. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 08:36:16 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 11:36:16 -0400 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <577141E2.2000403@riseup.net> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> <577141E2.2000403@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160627153616.GA63934@synfin.org> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 08:10:26AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > There's historical evidence to dispute the concept that Stalin was "Mad". > > A biography written about a decade ago included a conversation between > Stalin, and his son, who was influence peddling the family name. To the > best of my recollection the convo went like this: > > Stalin to his son: "You are not "Stalin". I am not "Stalin". "Stalin" is > that person you hear about on the radio and read about in the newspapers" > > Josef Stalin was aware that his persona had been hijacked and he was not > in charge of all events that were occurring in his name. Compare to > Hitler, who was thoroughly delusional. I'm not familiar with the anecdote you mention, but it sounds like he was acknowledging his own cult of personality.. Anyway, I was being slightly hypberbolic when I said "mad". I read a biography of Stalin like 6 months ago by a guy named Khlevniuk, and the picture of Koba was not one of insanity per se.. but he was filled with paranoia, extremely crafty, and took a "kill first" policy with anyone that could possibly pose a threat. He was actually planning a bunch of Jewish pogroms when he died in 53. Beria was said to have danced in glee around the still-living but paralyzed Stalin after his fatal stroke... of course, Beria was one sick puppy himself. -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 19:04:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:04:31 +1000 Subject: Fw: How to identify a sociopath / psychopath Message-ID: <20160627020431.GA28297@x220-a02> How to identify a sociopath / psychopath? Have you ever felt the urge to throw one of your group's leading lights and a principled and staunch man, under the bus? Do you notice you occasionally get caught up in a public lynch mobbing, which in hindsight was a less than admirable move? Have you ever been involved in a conversation where uncomfortablly powerful/ confronting questions are asked which challenge conventional thinking or the status quo, and instead of supporting the questioner, you tried to defend the indefensible until it was obvious the indefensible could no longer be defended? Is it possible that for you, the ends ("I/we are trying to save the world") justifies the means ("an evil is done now, under my watch")? Is it really too radical to suggest that instead of justifying an evil, it might be better to just say no? To support the staunch and principled man or woman in uncomfortable times? To identify and support humility and humanity, to display a little empathy? So you say you need the wood for what you're building, but how does heartlessness make a better world? Does justifying an evil now, in pursuance of a purportedly better world, make you just a little bit sociopathic? anon. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 19:14:07 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:14:07 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <20160627021407.GK26799@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 08:04:14PM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > Once upon a time, cypherpunks was a place where constructive discussion > was the norm, and outright garbage being posted to the list was not. > Now, it seems it is the reverse of that. What do we have to do to fix > this? That would be called either cypherNOTpunks or nettime, the latter exists and includes a lovely big copyright exclusivity warning threat at the bottom of every email the listserv sends out along with the moderation - should be just what your nanny ordered. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 19:39:12 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:39:12 +1000 Subject: [Cryptography] Fwd: Study on Trends in Crypto-Messaging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160627023912.GB2470@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:06:56PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Goldbug Seems they couldn't keep the corresponding wikipedia page "straight" and managed to have that taken down - wikibooks probably cannot take the book down, even in the face of the software being known dodgy. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 20:57:15 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 13:57:15 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: <20160627035715.GD2470@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:44:18PM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > Standing up for someone's right to pollute the list with messages that, > in all honesty, contribute nothing to civil discussion, is bad enough. You get to choose EITHER: a) the nature of the list you join (nettime seems like a good fit for what you say you want), or b) with whom you jump onto the same list You don't get to choose both. That would be a fascist dictatorship by any other name. Some of us happen to like the mix. You don't like the mix, and you are free to complain about the particular mix in this neck o the woods, as we are free to mock such requests and cackle like hyenas. > Your suggestion that I unsubscribe is many times worse than that. Perhaps be grateful that's the only suggestion you got. Seriously there are millions of people online, and 100s of 10900s of online forums to cater to those folks - you can't accuse the web of lack of choice. And if you really want something just that little bit different to what's already out there - a new ShawnCyphers forum is but a few clicks away - in this regard we live in a world of abundance. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 21:06:51 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:06:51 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770a257.cf38c80a.9cb2f.7c64@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> <5770a257.cf38c80a.9cb2f.7c64@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160627040651.GF2470@x220-a02> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:51:13AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 22:44:18 -0500 > "Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: > > Getting banned from a mailing list, in general, should serve as a > > warning that one's conduct is unacceptable. If this describes you, > > recently, please heed that warning. > > Wow. Is this stupid motherfucker and worthless scumbag > threatening me? Isn't that cute =) > Are you going to send the marines? Ooh. Aah. Hmm. Shawn, can you tone it down a little please, it sounds like Juan's getting a bit scared here. We don't want bullying on the list, or we might have to introduce moderation ... From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jun 26 21:19:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:19:58 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> References: <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <37D1751C-D14D-4C62-A92B-D6BD357EE1E9@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160627041958.GG2470@x220-a02> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 09:12:35PM -0700, Ted Smith wrote: > Juan doesn't get paid to recommend privacy-enhancing technology. > Just to scare people away from using it. I doubt he gets paid for that, but it's certainly a much needed community service. Can't have potential leakers and dissidents running around being led to their own state-sponsored damnation by the MIC shills now... From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 11:31:23 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:31:23 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_IT-mees_J=C3=B5hvist=3A_=E2=80=9EUSA_valitsus_ja_Ki?= =?UTF-8?Q?m_Dotcom_r=C3=B6=C3=B6visid_neli_aastat_minu_elust=E2=80=9C?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30114C51-C4C4-4737-8A20-E36054CCD2E3@synfin.org> On June 25, 2016 3:28:43 PM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >http://ekspress.delfi.ee/kuum/it-mees-johvist-usa-valitsus-ja-kim-dotcom-roovisid-neli-aastat-minu-elust?id=74201189 >http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/from-file-sharing-to-prison-a-megaupload-programmer-tells-his-story/ > >The whole case was blackmail. They were just waiting for the defendant >to get tired of fighting and give up. It’s not the one who’s in the >right who wins, but the one who has the most staying power. > >They never send you straight to where you’re going. You drive through >a number of other prisons first. If you make trouble, say by >complaining to the judge that your rights are being violated, you’re >put through this thing called "diesel therapy." They bounce you back >and forth between prisons like a ping-pong ball. > >I was taken from Alexandria to Brooklyn, from there to Pennsylvania, >from there back to Brooklyn, and from there to Pennsylvania again—a >total of about 16 hours of driving. Before I got to where I was meant >to be going, I was put in two different prisons, one of which was a >supermax prison where they keep the worst of the worst. I was there >for 10 days. There are more than 2.5 million prisoners in the United >States. Almost one percent of the whole population is in prison, and >that’s a huge problem. But what surprised me most was that there are >private prisons in the US. The more prisoners, the more money you get >from the state. It’s big business. > >Estonia was the only country that didn’t give its people any support. >All the other countries gave their prisoners at least some pocket >money. Even 10-20 euros would’ve been a great help, because you don’t >even get normal soap for free there, not to mention shampoo. You’re >given toothpaste whose "best before" was in 2005 and two 20 x 40 cm >towels for your whole body for half a year. USA has highest prison population per capita in the world, like 700+ per 100k. Maybe north Korea is a close second, there aren't good numbers available.... it's a fucking horrendous travesty, mostly thanks to drug prohibition and its draconian sentencing. -- John Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2914 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 04:33:24 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:33:24 +0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770EE4F.90808@pilobilus.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <1466989454.3476.6.camel@moonpatrol> <577094F0.6000305@riseup.net> <1466999058.3319.9.camel@moonpatrol> <4D9E3A7F-9C04-43EA-A00F-CD1C05A48882@riseup.net> <5770EE4F.90808@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: > > I was banned from tor-talk mailing list for defending a victim of brutal > harassment and accusations with no proofs. This victim is my friend and is > being attacked for a lynch mob. Is it not decent for you? > ! Nothing to add. Except that WE BOTH were banned for that reason by fuckers who talk about "principles/decency/etc." Boyce, Quinn,..... - are hypocrites. Just ugly hypocrites who play with beautiful words like jugglers. I prefer to be banned of all existent mailing and discussion lists than > supporting something so infamous, so disgusting... > !!! Me too. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 900 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jun 27 12:18:52 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 15:18:52 -0400 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1971E838-64E7-49ED-BFC2-6B5AB45F3CDD@synfin.org> Didn't bother reading past your "truth about Stalin" line, tbh... he killed all the old Bolsheviks in show trials, consolidated his power, and created the template for fucking North Korea. Or is there a vicious smear campaign against the Kims going on too ? ;) I won't bother to defend any politician or state. The US is built on slavery and genocide. That doesn't make Stalin a good guy. -- John On June 27, 2016 2:50:09 PM EDT, "Александр" wrote: >John Newman jnn at synfin.org > >> Hitler and Stalin >> were both mad men. >> >> i love this nasty maneuver when mixing TOGETHER (as if they were the >same): >lie AND truth // >black AND white // >destroyer AND savior >... > >a few words about the smear campaign against Stalin for the last 70 >years. >(information not from your TV/papers/great propaganda bibliographic >book): > >*Let's Be Honest - Stalin Was Less of a Criminal Than Churchill, >Truman, >and LBJ* > >"It's time to recover the truth about Stalin and the USSR from a >cesspool >of hostile propaganda" > >We have long maintained that the truth about the USSR, in general, and >particularly the Stalin period, has long been the object of the most >cynical, mean-spirited, and comprehensive propaganda effort ever seen >in >the annals of history. > >For reasons of sheer class interest among the plutocrats of the West, >the >business elites that still rule most of the so-called “capitalist >democracies,” the demonization of Stalin was a necessity, a campaign >only >briefly interrupted by World War Two and quickly resumed literally a >few >hours after its ending. > >The Western elites —with the American ruling circles in the >lead—correctly >saw an enemy in Stalin. They could not bribe him and they could not >intimidate him. Nor could they easily topple him, as they had done (and >still do) countless times with weaker, “inconvenient leaders.” What’s >more, >Stalin was at the helm of a powerful nation and titular leader of an >ideology directly opposed to their indispensable economic system. >Occasional diplomacy aside, they hated him. He and his nation stood in >the >way of their plans for global hegemony. So the the venom had to flow >and >did—abundantly. And in that sordid enterprise the capitalist elites >found >countless allies, not to mention the usual battalions of ignorant, >useful >idiots. > >As any propaganda student will attest, when vilifying a nation’s >policies >and social values, it’s far easier (and effective) if the propagandist >aims >the Big Lie machine at its leader. As we have seen in recent times with >Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad, Fidel Castro, Iran and North >Korea’s leaders, Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez, and finally Putin—among many >others (the empire is never lacking in “dangerous enemies”)—the >character >assassination of a leader is an old tactic to prepare the perennially >benighted home population for an attack on the targeted nation. > >From this perspective it’s not difficult to see that if the Ministry of >Truth could swiftly complete the total demonization of Vladimir Putin—a >figure in good standing merely 3 years ago—and not even an avowed >socialist, one can only imagine what outrageous fabrications they could >have concocted (and did) to cordon off the image of Stalin, an >outspoken >communist, over several decades. This made eminent sense to the West’s >doctrinal gatekeepers. Given the identification of Stalin’s long rule >with >the Soviet Union at its most embattled, the blackening of Stalin’s name >served an important purpose: it provided the Western propagandists an >invaluable shorthand—an “irrefutable symbol” of communism’s putative >evil—to block the very idea of genuine socialism as an option for >humanity. > >The preceding is obviously not to argue that Stalin was a flawless >leader, >or a saint who just happened to have a powerful army, or that he didn’t >make some serious mistakes. He did. However, the most elementary >fairness >demands that we ask, which world historical figure confronted with >enormously difficult choices emerges today (barring self-serving >ideological propaganda) unscathed from close and impartial examination? > >Judging Stalin by the context in which he had to act, and even more >important, the purposes he served, he was arguably no worse, morally, >than >most Western leaders, and by any rational measure, probably a damn >sight >better. For who are these distinguished gentlemen who have led the >West >for over a century now? > >Churchill, the most revered member in the club, was an unapologetic >racist >and imperialist who in the 1920s endorsed the policy of RAF bombing and >gassing Iraqi villages (Mesopotamia) into submission, for for failure >to >pay their assigned tribute. JFK, Lyndon Johnson, and Nixon pursued an >illegitimate, barbaric, genocidal war in Vietnam that remains one of >the >horrors of modern imperialism. Truman dropped the bomb on the Japanese >as a >way to keep the Soviets “in line,” making America so far the only >nation to >have used nuclear weapons on a civilian population. And during the >postwar, >the US tentacles, chiefly acting through the CIA and its clients, have >managed to murder and repress tens of millions of people around the >globe—in all latitudes and scores of nations, from the Philippines, to >Indonesia to Chile, to Nicaragua, to Iran, the Congo, Korea, the entire >Middle East, literally bathed in blood—always in pursuit of >geostrategic >advantage, and the suppression of popular democracy in order to better >permit the continuation and maximization of corporate profit. So much >for >the inherent perfidy of communism and angelic innocence of capitalism. > >The record is by now so huge and consistent, the hypocrisy so >staggering, >that we can state categorically there is not a single case in which >America >has used its immense diplomatic and military power to back a genuine >democratic leader (such people are immediately branded “communists” and >dealt accordingly) or assisted people struggling for freedom from class >oppression. It’s a vile and hypocritical record that continues to this >day, >thanks to the complete brainwash to which the American population has >been >subjected as a measure of pre-emptive pacification. The whole thing is >amply documented so there’s no point in even trying to refute it. > >In any case, recovering the truth about Stalin and the USSR from the >cesspool of hostile propaganda in which the enemies of socialism >situated >it, assisted by the perennially misguided and often fanatical >anti-communist and especially anti-Stalinist leftists, is no task for >the >weakhearted. > >That’s why we salute our colleagues at Russia Insider, and its editor, >Charlie Bausman, in particular, for their decision to publish Grover >Furr. >Letting this scholar speak to a larger audience is a badly needed blow >for >truth —especially in the current context of reckless warmongering on >Russia’s and China’s doorstep. The Big Lie must be defeated if a >lasting >peace is ever to be attained by humanity. > >http://russia-insider.com/en/history/lets-be-honest-stalin-was-less-criminal-churchill-truman-and-lbj/ri8303 -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8017 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 12:37:42 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:37:42 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> Message-ID: <57718025.6327c80a.b6019.ffff8f2c@mx.google.com> On Sun, 26 Jun 2016 04:59:51 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 It was somewhat entertaining.... ** = my comments. sekritarma> my little birdy tells me silk road 2 was indeed opsec sekritarma> failure, and the surrounding busts were because the silk sekritarma> road 2 guy named a whole lot of names **"my little birdy"(transparency first!) and tor's failure is always blamed on someone else. ioerror> Once, I was deported from Lebanon for being jewish, which was ioerror> because htey said i was a spy for israel (false) **lol - he needs to deny it...? mikeperry> I was excited to have a bridge to the State dept and gov't mikeperry> bureaucrats, **no comment... ioerror> If we hire a CIA person, which we have done apparently, we ioerror> will get people murdered **...because of opressive regimes! gamambel> why don't we take the RBN money for HS? **RBN? mikeperry> we're in that line also in part because we need lots of mikeperry> people to find Tor valuable, including the CIA **no comment. mikeperry>Andrew mailed tor-internal about his creepy plane flight with mikeperry>CIA agents next to him, telling him he should apply for IARPA mikeperry>funding/CIA funding mikeperry> I have no doubt that the CIA would find Tor useful, and its mikeperry> funding would not comrpromise us, **no comment. ioerror> mikeperry: Funding does compromise us ioerror> I am clear on that now. ioerror> Tor is compromised. **wow - that's so honest - as long it's said behind closed doors... DaveC1> And, I mean, again. I was joining an organization started by a DaveC1> NSA veteran. THat's the part that's still really confusing to DaveC1> me. ioerror> DaveC1: Roger's internship at the NSA is not the same kind of ioerror> veteran who helped invade iraq **sure - the NSA are good guys. Looks like the ex murderer, I mean 'soldier' and CIA agent is more reasonable than the tor mafia. ioerror> I have a lot of respect for Paul from the NRL and for many ioerror> people who fought in many wars **and looks like appelbaum's 'pacifism' is quite selective. Then again, he's on the pentagon's payroll... ioerror> I have very different politics than most people comprehend **yeah! fake anarchist working for the pentagon is kinda hard to 'comprehend'... DaveC1> ...But the things you're saying create an actively hostile work DaveC1> environment for veterans. **american psycho-murderer (aka soldier) whining about 'discrimination' - priceless. DaveC1> Runa: Griffin asked what was up. I told her "let me tell Roger DaveC1> first?, is that OK?" I would have told you the same. **griffin?? that wouldn't be the worthless scumbag boyce, would it...? because he says he doesn't work for the tor mafia... DaveC1> Runa: Sorry. I really didn't think that it would be a big deal DaveC1> since Roger was NSA. **birds of a feather... mikeperry> asn: I am not as distressed by the idea of a CIA pm as I am mikeperry> by what the rest of the world will think. **we are corrupt to the core, we only care about deceiving people as best as we can. ---------------- Also, there's a guy constantly repeating that his family in iran is going to be murdered because of this CIA guy. The story is completely nonsense of course. Supposedly, the iranian guy is working for tor, *helping the pentagon undermine the iranian government*. That's fine and dandy. The iranian gov't doesn't really care. HOWEVER, if the silly story about the CIA agent gets out, now the iranian government is going to kill this guy's family....why exactly? Because now they really understood what tor is about? Please. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 13:01:22 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:01:22 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [Air-L] mapping american interest in the rest of the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know if it can be interesting for everybody, but it possibly can be curious for some people here. I am sharing Kalev e-mail address for private feedbacks and he is a kind person. Please, don't be aggressive with him. He is a researcher and, like me, loves open data and open knowledge. There are several good and interesting persons in the AIR-L list, but most of communication happens out the mailing list. Please, no conflicts there. Love and dreams, Cecilia PS: - A guy asked me why I always say "North Americans" instead just "Americans". There are also Latin America and South America, not only North America. The world is really small, but much more complex than most of us usually think. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "kalev leetaru" Date: Jun 27, 2016 4:02 PM Subject: [Air-L] mapping american interest in the rest of the world To: "air-l at listserv.aoir.org" Thought this would be of great interest to those of you studying media geography and online bias. The Google Trends group created for me a map of how often Americans have searched about each country in the world thus far in 2016. Turns out it matches quite closely the attention paid to each country by American television coverage 2009-2016. Africa, Central Asia and the Baltics are standouts, along with Southern Europe. Thought this was quite fascinating to pair up all of the work being done on media geography and online bias with the use of search volume as a proxy for American public interest in those countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/06/27/do-americans-care-about-the-rest-of-the-world-these-two-google-maps-give-you-the-answer/ ~Kalev _______________________________________________ The Air-L at listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jun 27 17:18:21 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:18:21 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <57709E17.9020700@riseup.net> <5770A284.3000901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5771C24D.5080807@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/26/2016 11:50 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 06/26/2016 09:31 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > >> But you probably believe bin-Hidin never existed... Right Juan? > > Dude, he was obviously a CIA agent ;) Very obvious he had zip point zero to do with the 911 event; to get his foreknowledge and participation into the record, it was necessary to promote a video featuring a short, fat, hook nosed gold-ring-wearing asshole as "Bin Ladin." Fairly obvious he died in the winter of 2001/2 as well, IF one examines the available information with this possibility in mind. ;o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXccJNAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqW/YH/3eZB1j0ZZkKHZbmBdoYkZiX MBLFmNmnjU3cFfNmTtJldx1D5oeFnYPnmNN/fcs1UO2DcxtcvAja7/FH5nArhDjK ufGUugugV2g+hQcP236O/hTyOV75ltxaxMxu6wmKbglR+yC6f6sE8OlDCmOYZ7Af fDjuPSrOFrtX5BWgHdh6dVVB8C+H9sd3SNK/Saa8+i2009vV3HbK5lkC+3cNZE8l Ohblav1pUugswTM7FM6fQ9y2IDEmaFNYC8JZ8O7VNVd8FMoZCG5RadUKIY6AzG7p gpaJI8teAP0pyVq1TTJH8IUyjGyoNyJ4gOxQp1uY7uWubQykEXdDf7NOItlXTL4= =R6v0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jun 27 19:19:41 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:19:41 -0600 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 06:36 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Most of all know about my love for fun subjects, like Law, comics, music, > open data and Astronomy. > > Below, a small excerpt of Neil deGrasse Tyson's last speech in the new > "Cosmos" series. It is really beautiful and inspiring not only for > researchers, but for everybody who wants to search for truth. > > "How did we, tiny creatures living on that speck of dust, ever manage to > figure out how to send spacecraft outer among the stars of the milky way? > Only a few centuries ago, a mere second of the cosmic time. We knew > nothing of where and when we were. Oblivious to the rest of the cosmos, we > inhabited a kind of prison, a tiny universe bounded by a nutshell. > > How did we escape from the prison? It was the work of generation of > searchers, who took 5 simple rules to heart. > > Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, > including me. Think for yourself. Also, think about why they're saying that. What's the game? > Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. > Believing something doesn't make it so. I've wasted time on pet ideas, for sure :( > Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a > favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. Yes. And if something can't be tested, forget about it. That includes theories with so many free variables that they can fit any result. > Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve > judgement. That's how we get breakthroughs. > And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be > wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about somethings. Newton, > Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made > mistakes. Of course they did, their were human." There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jun 27 10:36:48 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 20:36:48 +0300 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160627173648.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 09:45:42AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > the 30's.... but, no denying they turned it around. Hitler and Stalin > were both mad men. > Is this delicate invocation of Godwin's law about the other threads? (Look up Godwin's law on wikipedia if you don't know it.) From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 17:36:24 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:36:24 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Most of all know about my love for fun subjects, like Law, comics, music, open data and Astronomy. Below, a small excerpt of Neil deGrasse Tyson's last speech in the new "Cosmos" series. It is really beautiful and inspiring not only for researchers, but for everybody who wants to search for truth. "How did we, tiny creatures living on that speck of dust, ever manage to figure out how to send spacecraft outer among the stars of the milky way? Only a few centuries ago, a mere second of the cosmic time. We knew nothing of where and when we were. Oblivious to the rest of the cosmos, we inhabited a kind of prison, a tiny universe bounded by a nutshell. How did we escape from the prison? It was the work of generation of searchers, who took 5 simple rules to heart. Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me. Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgement. And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about somethings. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1607 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 11:50:09 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:50:09 +0300 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union Message-ID: John Newman jnn at synfin.org > Hitler and Stalin > were both mad men. > > i love this nasty maneuver when mixing TOGETHER (as if they were the same): lie AND truth // black AND white // destroyer AND savior ... a few words about the smear campaign against Stalin for the last 70 years. (information not from your TV/papers/great propaganda bibliographic book): *Let's Be Honest - Stalin Was Less of a Criminal Than Churchill, Truman, and LBJ* "It's time to recover the truth about Stalin and the USSR from a cesspool of hostile propaganda" We have long maintained that the truth about the USSR, in general, and particularly the Stalin period, has long been the object of the most cynical, mean-spirited, and comprehensive propaganda effort ever seen in the annals of history. For reasons of sheer class interest among the plutocrats of the West, the business elites that still rule most of the so-called “capitalist democracies,” the demonization of Stalin was a necessity, a campaign only briefly interrupted by World War Two and quickly resumed literally a few hours after its ending. The Western elites —with the American ruling circles in the lead—correctly saw an enemy in Stalin. They could not bribe him and they could not intimidate him. Nor could they easily topple him, as they had done (and still do) countless times with weaker, “inconvenient leaders.” What’s more, Stalin was at the helm of a powerful nation and titular leader of an ideology directly opposed to their indispensable economic system. Occasional diplomacy aside, they hated him. He and his nation stood in the way of their plans for global hegemony. So the the venom had to flow and did—abundantly. And in that sordid enterprise the capitalist elites found countless allies, not to mention the usual battalions of ignorant, useful idiots. As any propaganda student will attest, when vilifying a nation’s policies and social values, it’s far easier (and effective) if the propagandist aims the Big Lie machine at its leader. As we have seen in recent times with Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Bashar al-Assad, Fidel Castro, Iran and North Korea’s leaders, Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez, and finally Putin—among many others (the empire is never lacking in “dangerous enemies”)—the character assassination of a leader is an old tactic to prepare the perennially benighted home population for an attack on the targeted nation. >From this perspective it’s not difficult to see that if the Ministry of Truth could swiftly complete the total demonization of Vladimir Putin—a figure in good standing merely 3 years ago—and not even an avowed socialist, one can only imagine what outrageous fabrications they could have concocted (and did) to cordon off the image of Stalin, an outspoken communist, over several decades. This made eminent sense to the West’s doctrinal gatekeepers. Given the identification of Stalin’s long rule with the Soviet Union at its most embattled, the blackening of Stalin’s name served an important purpose: it provided the Western propagandists an invaluable shorthand—an “irrefutable symbol” of communism’s putative evil—to block the very idea of genuine socialism as an option for humanity. The preceding is obviously not to argue that Stalin was a flawless leader, or a saint who just happened to have a powerful army, or that he didn’t make some serious mistakes. He did. However, the most elementary fairness demands that we ask, which world historical figure confronted with enormously difficult choices emerges today (barring self-serving ideological propaganda) unscathed from close and impartial examination? Judging Stalin by the context in which he had to act, and even more important, the purposes he served, he was arguably no worse, morally, than most Western leaders, and by any rational measure, probably a damn sight better. For who are these distinguished gentlemen who have led the West for over a century now? Churchill, the most revered member in the club, was an unapologetic racist and imperialist who in the 1920s endorsed the policy of RAF bombing and gassing Iraqi villages (Mesopotamia) into submission, for for failure to pay their assigned tribute. JFK, Lyndon Johnson, and Nixon pursued an illegitimate, barbaric, genocidal war in Vietnam that remains one of the horrors of modern imperialism. Truman dropped the bomb on the Japanese as a way to keep the Soviets “in line,” making America so far the only nation to have used nuclear weapons on a civilian population. And during the postwar, the US tentacles, chiefly acting through the CIA and its clients, have managed to murder and repress tens of millions of people around the globe—in all latitudes and scores of nations, from the Philippines, to Indonesia to Chile, to Nicaragua, to Iran, the Congo, Korea, the entire Middle East, literally bathed in blood—always in pursuit of geostrategic advantage, and the suppression of popular democracy in order to better permit the continuation and maximization of corporate profit. So much for the inherent perfidy of communism and angelic innocence of capitalism. The record is by now so huge and consistent, the hypocrisy so staggering, that we can state categorically there is not a single case in which America has used its immense diplomatic and military power to back a genuine democratic leader (such people are immediately branded “communists” and dealt accordingly) or assisted people struggling for freedom from class oppression. It’s a vile and hypocritical record that continues to this day, thanks to the complete brainwash to which the American population has been subjected as a measure of pre-emptive pacification. The whole thing is amply documented so there’s no point in even trying to refute it. In any case, recovering the truth about Stalin and the USSR from the cesspool of hostile propaganda in which the enemies of socialism situated it, assisted by the perennially misguided and often fanatical anti-communist and especially anti-Stalinist leftists, is no task for the weakhearted. That’s why we salute our colleagues at Russia Insider, and its editor, Charlie Bausman, in particular, for their decision to publish Grover Furr. Letting this scholar speak to a larger audience is a badly needed blow for truth —especially in the current context of reckless warmongering on Russia’s and China’s doorstep. The Big Lie must be defeated if a lasting peace is ever to be attained by humanity. http://russia-insider.com/en/history/lets-be-honest-stalin-was-less-criminal-churchill-truman-and-lbj/ri8303 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7092 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 18:13:47 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:13:47 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ PFIR ] Cryptography pioneer Marty Hellman calls for compassion in personal, cyber, and international threats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For your information, with warm hugs from Brazil! :* Cecilia PS: - Juan, maybe you and some people don't like him and his posts, but Lauren is a kind soul. I really like him a lot. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" < pfir at pfir.org> Date: Jun 27, 2016 9:08 PM Subject: [ PFIR ] Cryptography pioneer Marty Hellman calls for compassion in personal, cyber, and international threats To: Cryptography pioneer Marty Hellman calls for compassion in personal, cyber, and international threats https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/27/cryptography-pioneer-marty-hellman-on-using-compassion-in-personal-cyber-and-international-threats/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29 Hellman no longer does crypto research, though he retains a position at Stanford; instead, he has been advocating for changes in policy that acknowledge the new, more interconnected global community. "I see cyberweapons as very similar to nuclear weapons," he said. "Early on we had a monopoly on nuclear weapons so we thought they were the greatest thing going. But unlike a nuclear weapon, a cyberweapon doesn't destroy itself, so like with Stuxnet, our adversaries were able to take it apart and figure out how it works. We need to start thinking this through more carefully." - - - --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein (lauren at vortex.com): http://www.vortex.com/lauren Founder: - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org - PRIVACY Forum: http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com Google+: http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein Twitter: http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 / Skype: vortex.com I have consulted to Google, but I am not currently doing so -- my opinions expressed here are mine alone. _______________________________________________ pfir mailing list http://lists.pfir.org/mailman/listinfo/pfir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3706 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 20:06:19 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:06:19 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> Message-ID: I am killing the English in all my messages, haha!! Sorry for all my stupid Grammar errors! ;) On Jun 27, 2016 11:34 PM, "Mirimir" wrote: > > > How did we escape from the prison? It was the work of generation of searchers, who took 5 simple rules to heart. > > > > Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me. Think for yourself. > > Also, think about why they're saying that. What's the game? > > > Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. > > I've wasted time on pet ideas, for sure :( Me too. Probably much more than you, my dear Mirimir. To find the truth, you must believe. I always wanted to believe. I still believe in a better world for everybody, but it is becoming pretty hard to discover what means a "better world" and "everybody", uh! :-/ > > Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. > > Yes. And if something can't be tested, forget about it. That includes theories with so many free variables that they can fit any result. Being a hard headed person makes me waste a lot of time following variables because Law is not an Exact Science and persons are not exact and precise at all, haha!! ;) > > Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgement. > > That's how we get breakthroughs. > > > And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about somethings. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, they were human." > > There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. No truth. It hurts. And it is probably true. :( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2205 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jun 27 23:57:50 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 00:57:50 -0600 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57721FEE.4070407@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 11:09 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 06/27/2016 11:06 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > [Mirimir wrote] >>> There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. >> >> No truth. It hurts. And it is probably true. :( > > What is truth? Well, Cecilia posted about science, and I was also talking about the concept of truth in science. See http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/ From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jun 27 22:09:15 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:09:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> On 06/27/2016 11:06 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >> There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. > > No truth. It hurts. And it is probably true. :( What is truth? Pilate asked this question to underline the fact that in his house, his words were true simply because he said them. That's a fringe benefit of working under authority granted by a living God, i.e. the Roman Emperor. Truth in the common, everyday sense means honest reporting. "Telling the truth" is no guarantee of factual accuracy per evidence unknown to the speaker, or reasoning not used by the speaker, but a best effort by all involved leads to useful results. An engineer might say that truth is whatever concepts and data provide maximum practical utility. Propagandists take a very utilitarian approach since manufacturing truth is their stock in trade. Professionals in that field have no delusion that truth cam exist independently of the interests it serves. In formal games including maths, truth is whatever complies with the rules of the game. Among my favorite "truths" is the family of logical statements that are both true (well formed) and self contradictory, i.e. Goedel's incompleteness theorem. These formally provable truths pop the bubble of "objectivity," leaving us in a world where, at best, truth is context-dependent and strictly local. Another way to look at truth is in the context of "authenticity." Is a given person "true to" his or herself? Conscious of the role of the individual as an active participant in creating truth? This take on truth puts it in the same bucket as freedom and beauty; the stuff of art, not science. Recommended reading on truth and related topics: Quantum Psychology by Robert Anton Wilson. Dropbox link to PDF courtesy of the Erisian Liberation Front. http://db.tt/VGjx8M02 From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 23:40:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:40:44 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame Message-ID: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19486 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19477 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19271 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19267 https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/emailLists https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11983398 http://archive.is/u6iOS http://archive.is/U2miA https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor/blob/master/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor.md Just links. And yes, the DPRK exists and makes a fine travel destination ;) https://vimeo.com/172360421 From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 22:51:11 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:51:11 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2016 2:22 AM, "Steve Kinney" wrote: > > On 06/27/2016 11:06 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > >> There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. > > > > No truth. It hurts. And it is probably true. :( > > What is truth? Pretty relative, my dear. I only know my own truth and I never consider it as absolute. It can change with lots of variables, like the present moment. Having no absolute truth, in the end, is the same than no truth. Uh, being sincere, at this point, I don't know if the truth really exists... :P > Recommended reading on truth and related topics: Quantum Psychology by Robert Anton Wilson. Dropbox link to PDF courtesy of the Erisian Liberation Front. > > http://db.tt/VGjx8M02 Oh, loved very much the gift! Thank you a lot, Steve! <3 Now I am interested in other books of the same author. He is pretty interesting, ow! Thank you for all the references! #love *-* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 01:23:45 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:23:45 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <57721FEE.4070407@riseup.net> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> <57721FEE.4070407@riseup.net> Message-ID: The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, my dear Mirimir. Thank you, sweetie! :* Small hours soundtrack: Gershwin Brothers, The Beach Boys and Henry Mancini. My old grumpy lady selection while reading lots of books and links at same time, hihi... ;) On Jun 28, 2016 4:10 AM, "Mirimir" wrote: > On 06/27/2016 11:09 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > On 06/27/2016 11:06 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > [Mirimir wrote] > >>> There is no truth. You can only know what's probably not true. > >> > >> No truth. It hurts. And it is probably true. :( > > > > What is truth? > > Well, Cecilia posted about science, and I was also talking about the > concept of truth in science. > > See http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/popper/ > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 01:55:31 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:55:31 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2016 5:26 AM, "Tom" wrote: > > Today is the best times of all. Todays poorest people are rich compared to poor people a couple of centuries ago. > > So, I don't need to believe, I know it's getting better. Even if local situations might be worsen here and there, this doen't matter that much for the species as a whole. Hi Tom! :) Thank you for all your considerations about several perceptions of reality, beliefs and truth. There is an old Brazilian joke that says the world is really much better now. In Abel and Cain times, the murder rates were 50% of the population, hihi... ;) Hugs, take care! Sorry for the horrible joke! :* Cecilia PS: - Ugh, this gmail account is trolling me! Sorry for strange duplicated messages! O.o -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 924 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 02:17:54 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 06:17:54 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2016 3:53 AM, "grarpamp" wrote: > > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19486 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19477 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19271 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19267 > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/emailLists > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11983398 > http://archive.is/u6iOS > http://archive.is/U2miA > https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor/blob/master/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor.md > > Just links. > > And yes, the DPRK exists and makes a fine travel destination ;) > > https://vimeo.com/172360421 Thank you a lot, my dear grarpamp. Pretty fun selection, but all this bad Tor soap opera always makes me feel more miserable and broken hearted than Morrissey lyrics, uff... :(( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1804 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 09:31:04 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:31:04 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> On 06/27/2016 11:40 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > And yes, the DPRK exists and makes a fine travel destination ;) > > https://vimeo.com/172360421 > DPRK +1 for Marijuana is legal. It's considered Folk Medicine. I keep pointing out to people that, unlike Vietnam, the US DID bomb the DPRK's agricultural dikes and then, due to an artificial and hostile neighbor to the South and US saber rattling, never managed to repair them leaving the country somewhat dependent on food aid, and also note that if the US was a small nation under constant treat from a nuclear superpower THEIR leadership would look and act a whole lot different than it does, and the people in the society would be sociologically very different. Two words.... "Iron Ore". That's what the DPRK has in abundance and that's what the US wants to loot to keep the Steel mills smoking and factories in the South pumping out those cheap cars 'Mericans can afford to buy with their continually devaluing dollar. However if your political tendencies are towards Libertarianism (ie Feudalism) and I KNOW more than a few of you are, I have an alternative tourist destination for you: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libertarian-parad_n_197763.html Rr Ps. After YEARS of being available on Youtube "Somalia: A Libertarian Paradise" has been blocked in the US... Perhaps elsewhere (use a proxy). I've also discovered that the Rage Against the Machine Video "Killing in the Name of..." set to footage of the 2K DNC protests has met a similar fate after years of availability. You are being reverse propagandized by the flushing of information down the memory hole 'Merican. Even the "Sinister North Korean" regime isn't THAT clever... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 10:11:44 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 09:54 AM, juan wrote: > rayzer is a marxist CLANG! Wrong. Try again troll. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tom at vondein.org Tue Jun 28 01:13:44 2016 From: tom at vondein.org (Tom) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:13:44 +0200 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> Hi Cecilia, first of all: thanks for posting this, many people seem to have forgotten these things lately. On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 12:06:19AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Me too. Probably much more than you, my dear Mirimir. To find the truth, > you must believe. I always wanted to believe. I still believe in a better > world for everybody, but it is becoming pretty hard to discover what means > a "better world" and "everybody", uh! :-/ There's no need to believe, observing is sufficient. From our vantage point it may seem everything is getting worse. We kill each other, we exterminate species, we destroy the environment, intolerance, corruption and lies, lies and much more lies. But the thing is: it's not the reality, it's just what we perceive it to be. Actually it's the other way around: things are getting better and better. Yes, sometimes it's two steps forward and one backward. However, look at the details. How many pople are being killed during wars these days? Of course, still too many, but not millions as in past times. More and more people pay attention to the environment. Who did that 100 years ago? Nobody. Who did protest against forest clearance in those times? Nobody. Against discrimination? A handfull. The list is endless. The difference to past times is this: 100 years ago children got missed all times, every day. The general public didn't care much, or even notice. Today, if a child gets lost, all the media - sometimes even international ones - report about it, every day 24/7, for weeks. This is the cause of the perception "oh my god all this criminality!" while in reality there's LESS criminality than ever before. You might counter: but what about unreported missing black children? What about the desastrous violence in Venezuela and Mexico? What about all those global warming deniers? What about the rising fascisim in the EU? What about idiots like Trump or Farage? Yes, these things must be fixed. But if you "zoom out" a little and look on the big picture, you'll realize that we as a species are developing, growing and indeed getting better. Well, at least this is as I see it. I just hate it that almost every one laments all day "we're going to die, the past was so much better" and such crab. Try to make a living in 1850. Or 1650. Or 350. Or 14000 b.c. Today is the best times of all. Todays poorest people are rich compared to poor people a couple of centuries ago. So, I don't need to believe, I know it's getting better. Even if local situations might be worsen here and there, this doen't matter that much for the species as a whole. best, Tom From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 11:10:32 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:10:32 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772b223.3224ed0a.eb6ac.79ad@mx.google.com> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> <5772b223.3224ed0a.eb6ac.79ad@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5772BD98.7000502@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 10:23 AM, juan wrote: > your past comments about marx make you a marxist. I comment about a lot of things. Everything you extrapolate from there just goes a long way to illustrating your unique kind of mental illness. > at any rate, you clearly are a dishonest retard who say > that liberalism (what anglos now call 'libertarianism') is > feudalism. If you are not the world's champion of trolls, then > what are you. There's probably a name for it. If not, there should be. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 03:09:45 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:09:45 +0300 Subject: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble In-Reply-To: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: Zenaan, thank you so much for your powerful speech that comes from the depth of your Heart. I am pro-Russian, from points of view including the following: > .... > You are a pro-Russian/Putin + you are a HUGE PRO-TRUTH! PRO-GREAT-FUTURE for all of us! there might not be any truth to the "bad Russians, bad Putin" meme! > AND > Perhaps they're (the Russians) fellow humans? > Perhaps they're in fact really fine humans (the Russians), and real humans? > Perhaps their current leader, Putin, is pretty damn great, by any and all > international, national and local, Christian, and any other, standards? > > !!! __ Please, form your own assessment! Create an opinion for yourself, which > is not my opinion, not the MSM opinion, but is your own, personal, > opinion. Please. > > Please. __ Zen, I think you should post your speech in a different thread. It's much more than the "Litvienko case" here... and these deep and true words deserve to be repeated. Your Brother, A. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 09:44:11 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:44:11 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> Message-ID: <5772a8f5.57ede90a.caf59.67b3@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:13:44 +0200 Tom wrote: > There's no need to believe, observing is sufficient. From our vantage > point it may seem everything is getting worse. We kill each other, we > exterminate species, we destroy the environment, intolerance, > corruption and lies, lies and much more lies. > > But the thing is: it's not the reality, OK. Now we have a bunch of very cheap relativists who are of course their own parody.... it's just what we perceive it > to be. Actually it's the other way around: things are getting better > and better. Yes, sometimes it's two steps forward and one backward. .... Sorry dude. Your pro-establishment bullshit is not 'true' because there's no such thing as 'truth'. > > You might counter: but what about unreported missing black children? > What about the desastrous violence in Venezuela and Mexico? What > about all those global warming deniers? What about the rising > fascisim in the EU? What about motherfucking americans and their global police state eh? > What about idiots like Trump or Farage? Yes. Terrible. They are not lefty, 'progressive' americunt fascists! That's really horrible. > Yes, > these things must be fixed. But if you "zoom out" a little and look > on the big picture, you'll realize that we as a species are > developing, growing and indeed getting better. > > Well, at least this is as I see it. I just hate it that almost every > one laments all day "we're going to die, the past was so much better" > and such crab. Try to make a living in 1850. Or 1650. Or 350. Or > 14000 b.c. Today is the best times of all. Todays poorest people are > rich compared to poor people a couple of centuries ago. > > So, I don't need to believe, I know it's getting better. Even if local > situations might be worsen here and there, this doen't matter that > much for the species as a whole. > > > > > best, > Tom > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 09:49:35 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:49:35 -0300 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160628122930.GC685@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> <20160628122930.GC685@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5772aa39.7425c80a.b7739.713e@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:29:30 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 09:45:42AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > the 30's.... but, no denying they turned it around. Hitler and > > Stalin were both mad men. > > Does it matter if they were mad or evil? Is Obama mad (x)or evil? both From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 09:54:21 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:54:21 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:31:04 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > However if your political tendencies are towards Libertarianism (ie > Feudalism) well go figure - rayzer showing yet again that he is lagughable ignorant and dishonest. background : rayzer is a marxist : that is, the most despicable kind of lefty totalitarian out there. so yeah libertarianism (real name, liberalism) is feudalism and war is peace. > and I KNOW more than a few of you are, yeah, this being the cpunks mailing list, it is to be expected. Thanks for embarrasing yourself yet again. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 10:23:20 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:23:20 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5772b223.3224ed0a.eb6ac.79ad@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:11:44 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/28/2016 09:54 AM, juan wrote: > > rayzer is a marxist > > CLANG! > > Wrong. > > Try again troll. your past comments about marx make you a marxist. at any rate, you clearly are a dishonest retard who say that liberalism (what anglos now call 'libertarianism') is feudalism. If you are not the world's champion of trolls, then what are you. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 12:17:50 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:17:50 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/28/16, grarpamp wrote: > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 http://archive.is/nFCHI In every organization there's always a time window, a time for even 'statment coming', a corporate lockdown, and management / censorship of media, image, and self. It'll probably be year end before an overall picture as to these events starts to solidify for history. From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jun 28 05:29:30 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:29:30 +0300 Subject: Operation Barbarossa: The 75th Anniversary of the Nazi Invasion of the Soviet Union In-Reply-To: <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> References: <20160620015252.GD13569@x220-a02> <20160627134542.GA13004@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160628122930.GC685@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 09:45:42AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > the 30's.... but, no denying they turned it around. Hitler and Stalin > were both mad men. Does it matter if they were mad or evil? Is Obama mad (x)or evil? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 11:39:07 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:39:07 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772BD98.7000502@riseup.net> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> <5772b223.3224ed0a.eb6ac.79ad@mx.google.com> <5772BD98.7000502@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5772c3e7.890b370a.2754f.6424@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:10:32 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > On 06/28/2016 10:23 AM, juan wrote: > > your past comments about marx make you a marxist. > > I comment about a lot of things. I don't think so. And regardless, when your comments are pro-marx then you can be called a marxist. > > Everything you extrapolate from there just goes a long way to > illustrating your unique kind of mental illness. uh oh > > > at any rate, you clearly are a dishonest retard who say > > that liberalism (what anglos now call 'libertarianism') is > > feudalism. If you are not the world's champion of trolls, > > then what are you. > > There's probably a name for it. If not, there should be. name for a dishonest shitbag like you : of course : dishonest shitbag. Quite descriptive isn't it. So tell me rayzer what does a marxist statist like you do in a supposedly crypto-anarchist list WHINING about liberalism/libertarianism? What, are you worried that some people don't want to get their driver licenses and want to ignore the supreme authority of your state? > > Rr > From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jun 28 12:53:05 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:53:05 -0400 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <5772D5A1.7010700@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/28/2016 01:51 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >> Recommended reading on truth and related topics: Quantum >> Psychology by > Robert Anton Wilson. Dropbox link to PDF courtesy of the Erisian > Liberation Front. >> >> http://db.tt/VGjx8M02 > > Oh, loved very much the gift! Thank you a lot, Steve! <3 > > Now I am interested in other books of the same author. He is > pretty interesting, ow! Thank you for all the references! #love > *-* It's entirely my pleasure. Many people I know credit Prometheus Rising, also by Wilson, for saving their so-called "sanity." Wilson presents Timothy Leary's neurosomatic model of human development, motivation and behavior in practical, relevant layman's terms. This model is "true" in the sense that I have seen it produce practical results. http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/04%20Prometheus%20Rising.pdf This revered Holy Book by Wislon, Bob Shea and other contributors is a lot of fun; may puzzling Internet in-jokes will make sense after reading. It's amazing what can happen when smart people take LSD. http://db.tt/UYAtkhsA :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXctWhAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq/n4H/1MnfyzEYxLh9utPvK1RvlpF fBnmYi/7jI+JlKeWpbX+yPbMrEvtW+u6hWEMhVqXXNW68Fdi4lWtcIN8WBIdJC/M 2RW8+/EkPf7zjNHDUt56YZZ6rB1Hx/eiz2wAwTVpA3BgPXCo/oR388ZpvlgF3Lcy 19gz8t0/fknrRWGTQNYgAhNPkLgUvTCK9jEO4kLYl2nktEytcCWWWrXLO2WJFr86 SEiMieTJ8GMbeyTaj3mN5mENXuKU10U1CZdVS5VP4RB+tKgR5jmSYl7zdYQ304Zj 8U0QKka+zGeieQHKKtqwDmCxt/DP/EwT4Py9uUfZmPNFrBQFHK2XtOysFCzHoZI= =418F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 12:27:34 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:27:34 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5772cf43.420a370a.ddb31.fffff884@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:17:50 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 6/28/16, grarpamp wrote: > > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 > > http://archive.is/nFCHI > > In every organization there's always a time window, a > time for even 'statment coming', a corporate lockdown, > and management / censorship of media, image, and self. > > It'll probably be year end before an overall picture as > to these events starts to solidify for history. Open source failure. There's a bug in there! How come that trac thing doesn't let freedom fighters fully and completely censor people, without leaving any traces? That's buggy. Please torbots, fix the memory hole of your tor pals. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 12:31:36 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:31:36 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:33:01 -0600 Mirimir wrote: >. But overall, I think that Tor has done much good. for the US military, yes. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 17:04:26 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:04:26 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5773108A.9080201@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 01:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/28/16, grarpamp wrote: >> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 > > http://archive.is/nFCHI > > In every organization there's always a time window, a > time for even 'statment coming', a corporate lockdown, > and management / censorship of media, image, and self. > > It'll probably be year end before an overall picture as > to these events starts to solidify for history. Yes, the last few years of internal Tor Project drama is starting to become clear. It's worse than I could ever have imagined. Frightening. And so I can see why they need to lock it all down. So it goes. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 17:23:05 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:23:05 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 01:31 PM, juan wrote: > On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:33:01 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> . But overall, I think that Tor has done much good. > > > for the US military, yes. For sure. But also for online drug dealers. There have been a few spectacular failures, certainly. And the security model of having illegal stuff mailed to meatspace addresses is laughable. But it has clearly increased availability, especially for niche substances like DMT and analogues. Quality too, I suspect. For me, that's a good. No question. More generally, Tor has allowed many to evade state control. Some of them deserve to die, in my opinion. But the important point is that Tor has overall reduced state power. Is that not a good thing, juan? It's true that Tor has allowed the CIA to act more freely in Ukraine, Syria, Iran, etc. But that, like freedom for pedophiles, is just a cost of usable "anonymity systems" (or whatever you want to call them). From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 01:49:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:49:46 +1000 Subject: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble Message-ID: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> OK, a few facts first, to try to pre-empt some standard responses (to whoever ends up reading this): 1) I am pro-Russian, from points of view including the following: - That which I perceive as a "higher human intention" permeating the Russian psyche, Russian history and the "Russian ethos". - Putin is unimpeachable. He has never taken any bribe, is patriotic for his nation, loves his people, speaks truth, and encourages Russians, and the entire world, to stand for a better world - seriously, can we ask for a better leader? in ANY country? - Russians (in general) do not say "I, human, am the greatest and highest thing in existence" - such arrogance is not the Russian way. Russians allow for things or consciousnesses or beings of greater capacity, things yet unknown to the mind of man, for higher possibilties for "man" and "soul"; as true scientists, Russian souls are open to higher possibilties, potential and actual realities, holding as true that we are more than reproducing worms. No matter -how- great any "scientific achievement," humility in the face of the extraordinary-ness of this existence is maintained. - As at right now, the multi-polar world vision is the only hope we have for a reasonable power balance in this world. Anarchists or those desiring direct democracy, the "true" socialists and "true" communists, and even the communalist Rojavans - none have the mind share to cause a significant stand against America the hegemon! Perhaps in the future, we can attempt to move towards something even better than a multi polar nationalistic world, who knows - I certainly hope for greater possibilities, but right now, America is absolutely despotic in its actions, and its collective despotic hegemonic intention, MUST be stopped. The hegemon must be stopped. 2) The world is in the middle of a major war at the moment, and most sheeple don't see this war for the future 'world order' - they see "localised" military wars only - Libya, Iraq, Syria, etc. But the real war is a war of wills, the war of empire - the American hegemonic intention vs the "global south" (as Pepe Escobar calls it) and this "global south"'s multi-polar intention. I say this multi-polar possibility, in the framework of nations, MICs and governments (which predominate the world today), is the only current hope for a balance of powers in this world, for the possibility of one or a group of countries opposing a demonic / evil intention of another very powerful country (right now, it is America and its endless domination of the rest of the planet, in the future, it may be some other wanna-be hegemon). Saddam Hussein had the gall to think he could throw off his CIA overlords (who put him in power in the first place) and start selling oil for Euros, ditching the US dollar. Are you kidding me? Muammar Gaddhafi was slowly building a physical gold base reached over 120 tonnes (small by some national standards, very large by Canadian standards) and he consistently promoted an arabic world "gold dinar" currency. And what happened when he started to try to sell oil for currencies other than US dollars? That's right, America, France and the UK piled in to bust up his party. The hegemon must be stopped. 3) Putin is the only true statesman on the world stage today. Now I'm sure some will disagree with this, but if you wish to suggest the contrary to me, please bring with you AT LEAST ONE FACT. There are first hand reports where Americans studying him for many years from within Russia have stated "yeah, we haven't been able to find a single instance of Putin accepting a bribe" for just one of many examples. And if you can find an actual fact that shows an evil deed done by Putin, an example of corruption by his own hands, I will be very surprised, and will question and research your source - so be prepared to be absolutely certain about your purported fact. The only fact I have that goes anywhere near this is the current Russian legislation making its way towards law which shall require backdoors in all encryption software sold (perhaps used?) in Russia - I hope it's not signed into law, but if it is, it is hard to deny Russia parity with the "glorious" West, in the face of the endless attempts to overthrow nations both near to Russia, and in other continents, and Russia itself! American government's intention to split Russia up the guts is documented by America itself. Poor Soros, he is currently failing with this particular intention, and we ought be very very grateful this is so. As many of us have now read many times, by American mouths, "Ukraine's recent Maidan was the most blatant coup in history", and America, mostly via the CIA, has been attacking nation after nation, democratically elected leader after democratically elected leader in foreign nations around the world, since WWII. America is the epitome of a hegemonic empire nation running amok - and sadly, no one even attempts to dispute this very sad fact... 4) With the quantity, quality and intensity of mud slinging propaganda against USSR (since WWII), against Russia since the USSR's collapse, and against Putin in his time, it is so very easy for us Western schooled humans to accept that "some of the mud just MUST be true", e.g. "oh well, this particular Western lie has been exposed, but you know, Putin is still really bad, and Russia is just murderers and drunkards, like all the way down like". No there might not be any truth to the "bad Russians, bad Putin" meme! Perhaps they're fellow humans? Perhaps they're in fact really fine humans, and real humans? Perhaps their current leader is pretty damn great, by any and all international, national and local, Christian, and any other, standards? Perhaps the current collective Russian vision of a multi polar world is in fact the best thing for all of us on this planet, given the current despotic intentions of America and the deep hegemon (UK, France, etc - the Western oligarchic elite power brokers)? We can call this "Russians simply MUST be bad" meme, "the Western apologist". I.e. the Western apologist is he or she who cannot break the mold of the Western MSM propaganda, and so has convinced himself that "although I have not seen an actual fact to say so, it must be true that Putin is somehow bad, since, you know, he's in government and no one in government can be trusted anyway, and he's, he's, he's Russian! so he MUST be bad!" Read Putin's Crimea speech! Read Putin's recent anniversary address to the United Nations! In fact, READ ANY SPEECH OF THE current president of russia, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, aka VVP! Read his words! Watch him on youtube! Please, form your own assessment! Create an opinion for yourself, which is not my opinion, not the MSM opinion, but is your own, personal, opinion. Please. Utopian society cannot be formed instantaneously, and may never be had generally on this old earth - we have largely despotic democracies prevailing around the world (despotic because often selfish people stand for election (they demonstrate their selfishness by their actions)): THIS IS TODAY'S REALITY - we have to move forward from WHERE WE ARE NOW - what is the best way to move forward from where we are now?!! Any possibility for balancing the out of control American Military Industrial Complex hegemon, is a blessing which we ought seize with both hands! Bring on the multi-polar world. Let's do our bit towards at the very least, this proposed balance of powers in the world! The hegemon must be stopped... And now, for today's particular Western lie exposed (sadly, just another of so many): ----- Major Allegations Against Russian President Now Being Questioned (Part I) Putin, it turns out, was "probably" not responsible for the murder of Alexander Litvinenko. Dr. Julia Svetlichnaja 2016-06-28 http://eastwestaccord.com/major-allegations-russian-president-now-questioned/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/major-allegations-against-russian-president-now-being-questioned-part-i/ri15230 ) ----- Thankfully, with the internet, more and more of the Western lies are being exposed. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 18:01:15 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:01:15 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160629002510.GS3088@x220-a02> References: <5773108A.9080201@riseup.net> <20160629002510.GS3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57731DDB.6030206@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 06:25 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 06:04:26PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 06/28/2016 01:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: >>> On 6/28/16, grarpamp wrote: >>>> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 >>> >>> http://archive.is/nFCHI >>> >>> In every organization there's always a time window, a >>> time for even 'statment coming', a corporate lockdown, >>> and management / censorship of media, image, and self. >>> >>> It'll probably be year end before an overall picture as >>> to these events starts to solidify for history. >> >> Yes, the last few years of internal Tor Project drama is starting to >> become clear. It's worse than I could ever have imagined. Frightening. >> And so I can see why they need to lock it all down. So it goes. > > "need to"? or do you mean merely "chose to"? That's a hard call. I'm tempted to say "need to". Because it could get MUCH worse before starting to clear up. But maybe "feel that they need to try to" would have been best. Because I fear that it's hopeless now. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jun 28 18:25:16 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:25:16 -0600 Subject: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble In-Reply-To: <20160629010107.GA19361@synfin.org> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160629010107.GA19361@synfin.org> Message-ID: <5773237C.30302@riseup.net> On 06/28/2016 07:01 PM, John Newman wrote: > ... I still can't understand cheerleading for ANY of the major > nation-states out there... they are all some twist on the same > corrupt, nepotic, oligarchic/plutocratic template. ... I agree. What I can do is disengage, and encourage disengagement. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 02:52:28 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:52:28 +1000 Subject: America is a rogue state In-Reply-To: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160628095228.GE3088@x220-a02> Stephen F. Cohen: Has US Gone Rogue by Waging Undeclared War on Russia? Stephen F. Cohen 2016-06-28 https://www.thenation.com/article/is-the-us-pursuing-a-rogue-policy-by-waging-undeclared-war-against-russia/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-pursuing-rogue-policy-waging-undeclared-war-against-russia/ri15229 ) "As evidence, Cohen points to some recent examples: the emerging permanence of NATO’s “exercises” on Russia’s borders on land, sea, and in the air; the Obama administration’s refusal to separate physically its “moderate oppositionists” in Syria from anti-Assad fighters recognized as terrorist groups, despite having promised to do so; the demand by 51 State Department “diplomats” that Obama launch air strikes against Assad’s Syrian army, which is allied with Moscow, even if it might mean “military confrontation with Russia”; the questionable allegation that Russia had hacked files of the Democratic National Committee coupled with a NATO statement that hacking a member state might now be regarded as war against the entire military alliance; and the EU’s renewal of economic sanctions against Russia without any meaningful pretext. " ... From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jun 28 18:01:07 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:01:07 -0400 Subject: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble In-Reply-To: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160629010107.GA19361@synfin.org> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 06:49:46PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > 1) > I am pro-Russian, from points of view including the following: > - Putin is unimpeachable. He has never taken any bribe, is patriotic ... > America the hegemon! > Perhaps in the future, we can attempt to move towards something > even better than a multi polar nationalistic world, who knows - I > certainly hope for greater possibilities, but right now, America is > absolutely despotic in its actions, and its collective despotic > hegemonic intention, MUST be stopped. > > The hegemon must be stopped. > > The hegemon must be stopped... > > And now, for today's particular Western lie exposed (sadly, just another > of so many): > > ----- > Major Allegations Against Russian President Now Being Questioned (Part > I) > Putin, it turns out, was "probably" not responsible for the murder of > Alexander Litvinenko. > Dr. Julia Svetlichnaja > 2016-06-28 > http://eastwestaccord.com/major-allegations-russian-president-now-questioned/ > (Alt: > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/major-allegations-against-russian-president-now-being-questioned-part-i/ri15230 So, it seems that, maybe, perhaps, Litvinenko wasn't directly assassinated by the FSB (or whatever the Russian security service calls itself these days...). I mean, maybe he wasn't, but who gives a fuck? Even if the polonium didn't originate in Russia (I think they were able to pin-point which reactor it came out of, but setting that aside..), I still can't understand cheerleading for ANY of the major nation-states out there... they are all some twist on the same corrupt, nepotic, oligarchic/plutocratic template. Even if Putin is the fucking hero of the world (because he didnt kill Litvinenko, makes good speeches, doesn't take bribes), there's still all sorts of absurd shit going on in that country and in EVERY OTHER country in the world. Do you really think Putin wants to destroy American hegemony without utterly replacing it? -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 18:30:37 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:30:37 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <5772D5A1.7010700@pilobilus.net> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> <5772D5A1.7010700@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2016 4:57 PM, "Steve Kinney" wrote: > > Many people I know credit Prometheus Rising, also by Wilson, for saving their so-called "sanity." Oh, unhappily I have no much sanity to be saved... meh! :( But I swear I will read it with care and attention. I absolutely do love books! They make me purr, rom rom... <3 ( 'rom rom' is a Brazilian onomatopoeia for 'purring' and, for me, it sounds pretty cute when talking about books because 'hon' - 'book' in Japanese - sounds like 'rom', hihi... So I am happy, purring and asking for more books at same time, haha!! 'rom rom' feelings, meow! <3 ) > This revered Holy Book by Wislon, Bob Shea and other contributors is a lot of fun; may puzzling Internet in-jokes will make sense after reading. It's amazing what can happen when smart people take LSD. Oh, I really love this book, haha!! Already read "Principia Discordia" some years ago and it saved my life, haha!! I was pretty stressed and almost killing a boss when read it. The book made me laugh a lot and saved two lifes, my boss and mine, hihi... ;) I didn't learn the world's worst bad word yet, but used to call him 'boss-ta'. 'Bosta' is a Brazilian bad word, which means 'sh¡t', but it is a bit less offensive... :P It's a lovely coincidence, Steve. Today I was seriously considering to kill one of my stalkers, but it would be pretty hard to hide his body and killing a person wouldn't be a vegan thing, uff... :-/ Well, I never tried LSD. I don't have inclination for drugs, but I know a lot of different users, including several Apple products addicteds and hardcore Microsoft users. I sincerely try to respect and understand all of them, but I prefer ice cream. :) One of my craziest friends invited me to travel with him to know an indigenous tribe and use an hallucinogen made with frogs' poison. He already tried it three times, really loved it and swears it will heal my broken heart. So I told him the cheekiest lie of my life to avoid hurting his feelings... "Oh, Dani, poison extracted from frogs? Sorry, it is not vegan!" :P :P :P ( I am not vegan anymore, just veggie, but he doesn't need to know it or will invite me to taste one of his hallucinogen teas, uh! Luckly, he thinks vegans are a kind of 'radical veggie nazis', who don't taste anything without "free animal cruelty" labels. It is not true, but it is pretty convenient for me! "Sorry, Dani, your hemp is a plant, but it has no labels. Is it organic?" Hahaha!! ) Tender kisses, warm hugs and lots of 'rom rom' from Brazil, my dear! :* Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3005 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 10:47:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:47:48 +1000 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <5772a8f5.57ede90a.caf59.67b3@mx.google.com> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> <5772a8f5.57ede90a.caf59.67b3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160628174748.GK3088@x220-a02> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 01:44:11PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:13:44 +0200 > Tom wrote: > > What about idiots like Trump or Farage? > > Yes. Terrible. They are not lefty, 'progressive' americunt > fascists! That's really horrible. In a world crying out for any politician worthy of the title, Nigel Farage steps up to the plate: Nigel Farage Makes His First Speech to EU Parliament Since Brexit Vote Alex Christoforou http://theduran.com/nigel-farage-makes-first-speech-eu-parliament-since-brexit-vote-video/ "You, as a political project are in denial" - Nigel Farage to the entire EU parliament. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN9o3g-yuA From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 10:50:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:50:49 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> References: <5772A648.9000007@riseup.net> <5772ab57.c538ed0a.2cbad.76a5@mx.google.com> <5772AFD0.5020407@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160628175049.GL3088@x220-a02> > CLANG! Oh, personally not a big fan of C-LANG. Swift looks alright... they certainly did Unicode "right". From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 17:25:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:25:10 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5773108A.9080201@riseup.net> References: <5773108A.9080201@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160629002510.GS3088@x220-a02> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 06:04:26PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 06/28/2016 01:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > On 6/28/16, grarpamp wrote: > >> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19513 > > > > http://archive.is/nFCHI > > > > In every organization there's always a time window, a > > time for even 'statment coming', a corporate lockdown, > > and management / censorship of media, image, and self. > > > > It'll probably be year end before an overall picture as > > to these events starts to solidify for history. > > Yes, the last few years of internal Tor Project drama is starting to > become clear. It's worse than I could ever have imagined. Frightening. > And so I can see why they need to lock it all down. So it goes. "need to"? or do you mean merely "chose to"? From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 06:37:09 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:37:09 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> <5772D5A1.7010700@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: Fool PS: - Uh, thinking a bit better, "free animal cruelty" and "animal cruelty free" are *not* the same thing and I made a pretty cruel mistake, absolutely not vegan... Poor animals! :-/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 223 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jun 28 18:51:23 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:51:23 +1000 Subject: America is a rogue state In-Reply-To: <20160628095228.GE3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160628095228.GE3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160629015123.GA22028@x220-a02> So there's this little story from a little birdy, over southfront org site, which may be kinda looks something like u-s-depart THIS IS RANDOM TEXT ment-of-sta AND THIS te-denied-to-comment-situation-with-c SEE YA ia-arm ARCHITECTURE s-stolen-in-j JOKES I TELL YOU, JOKES ordan From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 13:38:35 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:38:35 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?RXVyb3Bl4oCZcyDigJhOZXQgTmV1dHJhbGl0eeKAmSBSdWxlcyBGYWlsIHRvIEJhbiAuLg==?= =?UTF-8?B?LnRvci4uLi4gVGhyb3R0bGluZw==?= Message-ID: https://torrentfreak.com/europes-net-neutrality-rules-dont-ban-bittorrent-throttling-160628/ “So if your ISP is lazy, or wants to cut corners and save money, they can throttle BitTorrent, or VPNs, or Bitcoin, or Tor, or any class of traffic they can identify,” Wilson says. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 15:13:19 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:13:19 -0400 Subject: First They Came For Assange Message-ID: https://freeassangenow.org/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxLa6jtF01g https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=first+they+came+for+assange First they came after Julian Assange, then they came after Chelsea Manning, then they came after Edward Snowden who is next? Also, https://twitter.com/embassycat From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jun 29 16:21:54 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:21:54 -0400 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <20160618082334.GB688@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> <20160618082334.GB688@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <57745812.1030307@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/18/2016 04:23 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:29:17PM +0000, Mr Nobody wrote: >> I just discovered that the reCaptchas that you usually bump into >> when using tor are not only a way to distinguish humans, but also >> they use your replies to train artificial intelligence modes >> >> https://www.google.com/recaptcha/intro/index.html#creation-of-value >> >> >> >> Tor users helping google with image recognition lol >> > > When over tor, some captchas with distorted images are so weird, I > am not sure solution exists at all... > > Is it possible this to be on purpose? I have run into sites where their 100% insoluble captchas were used to support the pretense of a "free" service option for non-subscribers. Apparently their SEO consultants* saw some benefit in annoying the hell out of users and discouraging them from believing that the sites in question work at all, paid account or not. Also, what better way for a centralized captcha provider to sabotage a website than to flag it to receive insoluble captchas? * I originally typed "crooked SEO consultants" but that is redundant. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXdFgSAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqbYMH/AqYEC1imC5cQn37yNA0uDlC c3n872CZwVo9x/7VqIlYaoiVSXllNz9pXQxoZTfBisX4sAdP4KOicrNylSzQr9Pn 4/3ZVKF60F0HWRgX3Fqy6+4mcYXPd1OzoDYBIK2wcBEbRU8oNFFXgFQt5DV+VMED PU84QOiylOq3rryw+muuWp/h23UkMun2C+HSS8AZZ9MaWZu8HZU5CJQ14MH5+0ws 1AW8lFQffiLsojh46OBsYDGSkQqx1J1Sq6F40jUjrOVffEAAgNAGyxHfC3/x+mWs pGUslRwUMPaApz8+xwRxsaKdh1PG1RVlhT6I+AG+uFjeU6GYleGb77aZnKTgq00= =Zxpf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jun 29 18:39:04 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:39:04 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> On 06/29/2016 05:26 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:23:05 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 06/28/2016 01:31 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:33:01 -0600 >>> Mirimir wrote: >>> >>>> . But overall, I think that Tor has done much good. >>> >>> >>> for the US military, yes. >> >> For sure. But also for online drug dealers. > > Yeah. Ask Ulbricht. Or the guys from agora who made it quite > clear that tor doesn't work. Or freedom hosting, or or or Ulbricht went down because associates fucked up, got busted, and cooperated with investigators. Also, it seems that his OPSEC sucked. It's not clear how Freedom Hosting got compromised. I don't believe that it was a Tor exploit. And it was call-home malware that pwned users. Which only affected idiots using Tor browser in Windows. Agora owners never said exactly what flaws in Tor concerned them, as I recall. And there are workarounds. Bigger problems, I think, are moving large amounts of money anonymously, and explaining income. > Also, what % of 'illegal' drugs are sold through tor? 0.01%? I have no clue. But for some demographics, I bet that it's huge. Have you ever tried to find DMT? I love DMT :) >> There have been a few >> spectacular failures, certainly. And the security model of having >> illegal stuff mailed to meatspace addresses is laughable. > > > It is, but that's not the point. Although, you know, using the > state's mail system to ship drugs is as stupid as using the > pentagon's fake anonimity network for the online side of > the business. > > *Furthermore*, this being the cpunks mailing list, the standard > should be a lot higher. Tor is not a realistic option at > all for people who have a quarrell with the powers that be. It's the best that's available, I believe. > If you are selling an 'anonimity' network for crypto-anarchism, > then your anonimity network better work against the US > gov't and assorted lapdogs. Perfection is the enemy of workability :) And if you know of something better, please do recommend it. >> But it has >> clearly increased availability, especially for niche substances like >> DMT and analogues. Quality too, I suspect. >> >> For me, that's a good. No question. >> >> More generally, Tor has allowed many to evade state control. > > > Yes. Many US agents and agents from vasal states. That's > how tor serves western imperialism. Is that what you want? It's not what I want, but it's what I'll accept. Consider this thought experiment. Let's say that some cypherpunk, with unimpeachable anarchist credentials, creates an anonymity system. One that's not vulnerable to local adversaries or global adversaries. One, perhaps, that uses covert channels, so ISPs can't even detect that it's being used. Then they release the source, and fun begins. So who would use it? I'm guessing that everyone who uses Tor, I2P, etc, etc would use it. And so we'd be back to where we are now with Tor, with just the exception that the new system isn't vulnerable to global adversaries. How would you keep statist criminals from using it? There's still the criticism that Tor is intentionally vulnerable to global adversaries. Maybe it was at first, by design. But it's an open-source project. You'd need to argue that contributions which increased resistance to global adversaries have been rejected or discouraged. Is there evidence for that? >> Some of >> them deserve to die, in my opinion. > > You mean the state agents no? Both. >> But the important point is that >> Tor has overall reduced state power. >> > > Yeah well. Sounds nice. Too bad there's zero evidence for that > claim. Actually the claim is pretty absurd. How can a project > of the US military whose purpose is to serve the US military > and the US state 'reduce state power'? By providing freedom and privacy for state subjects. Also, see the above thought experiment. It doesn't matter whose project it is. The same people would end up using it. > Are you on drugs? =) Always :) Mostly caffeine, though. Modafinil too :) >> Is that not a good thing, juan? > > No, tor is not a good a thing. > > Dissapointing. Your argument boils down to "the mafia or > the state can do good things, maybe, sometimes". > > So you can look at some good stuff that can be attributed to > tor, while ignoring all the bad stuff. > > That's like basic economics turned on its head... It's not a zero-sum game. As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like a dream. >> It's true that Tor has allowed the CIA to act more freely in Ukraine, >> Syria, Iran, etc. But that, like freedom for pedophiles, is just a >> cost of usable "anonymity systems" (or whatever you want to call >> them). > > lol - so now it turns out that 'pedophiles' are the moral > equivalent of the CIA or the murdering psychos at the pentagon? Maybe not, but pedophiles are the goto example. Government criminals fuck people at much larger scales, for sure. Maybe the crypter assholes are a better example, but that's still small-scale. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 15:51:11 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:51:11 -0300 Subject: First They Came For Assange In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 29, 2016 7:18 PM, "grarpamp" wrote: > > https://freeassangenow.org/ Oh, Assange? The rapist? So much "ludicrous rape apologetics" in the world, tsk tsk... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 351 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jun 29 20:16:12 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:16:12 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57748EFC.2050407@riseup.net> On 06/29/2016 04:26 PM, juan wrote: > Tor is not a realistic option at > all for people who have a quarrell with the powers that be. The realistic option is an assortment of tools, of which tor is one. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 16:26:06 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:26:06 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:23:05 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 06/28/2016 01:31 PM, juan wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 00:33:01 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > >> . But overall, I think that Tor has done much good. > > > > > > for the US military, yes. > > For sure. But also for online drug dealers. Yeah. Ask Ulbricht. Or the guys from agora who made it quite clear that tor doesn't work. Or freedom hosting, or or or Also, what % of 'illegal' drugs are sold through tor? 0.01%? > There have been a few > spectacular failures, certainly. And the security model of having > illegal stuff mailed to meatspace addresses is laughable. It is, but that's not the point. Although, you know, using the state's mail system to ship drugs is as stupid as using the pentagon's fake anonimity network for the online side of the business. *Furthermore*, this being the cpunks mailing list, the standard should be a lot higher. Tor is not a realistic option at all for people who have a quarrell with the powers that be. If you are selling an 'anonimity' network for crypto-anarchism, then your anonimity network better work against the US gov't and assorted lapdogs. > But it has > clearly increased availability, especially for niche substances like > DMT and analogues. Quality too, I suspect. > > For me, that's a good. No question. > > More generally, Tor has allowed many to evade state control. Yes. Many US agents and agents from vasal states. That's how tor serves western imperialism. Is that what you want? > Some of > them deserve to die, in my opinion. You mean the state agents no? > But the important point is that > Tor has overall reduced state power. > Yeah well. Sounds nice. Too bad there's zero evidence for that claim. Actually the claim is pretty absurd. How can a project of the US military whose purpose is to serve the US military and the US state 'reduce state power'? Are you on drugs? =) > Is that not a good thing, juan? No, tor is not a good a thing. Dissapointing. Your argument boils down to "the mafia or the state can do good things, maybe, sometimes". So you can look at some good stuff that can be attributed to tor, while ignoring all the bad stuff. That's like basic economics turned on its head... > > It's true that Tor has allowed the CIA to act more freely in Ukraine, > Syria, Iran, etc. But that, like freedom for pedophiles, is just a > cost of usable "anonymity systems" (or whatever you want to call > them). lol - so now it turns out that 'pedophiles' are the moral equivalent of the CIA or the murdering psychos at the pentagon? > From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jun 29 20:14:30 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:14:30 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57748E96.1090600@riseup.net> On 06/29/2016 08:36 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/29/16, Mirimir wrote: >> So who would use it? I'm guessing that everyone who uses Tor, I2P, etc, >> etc would use it. And so we'd be back to where we are now with Tor, with >> just the exception that the new system isn't vulnerable to global >> adversaries. >> >> How would you keep statist criminals from using it? > > When you have a non vulnerable network, or at least one that's > equally invulnerable to or exploitable by all participants, the > question of who uses it becomes more mooted by that balance. True. > Today's overlay networks are vulnerable to GPA's, which at > this stage are just governments and global telecoms... not > end users. There's a big imbalance there, and it's not in > favor of said users. That's also true. But you take what you can get. >> There's still the criticism that Tor is intentionally vulnerable to >> global adversaries. Maybe it was at first, by design. But it's an >> open-source project. > > Best design principles vs adversaries, as school of thought > over a decade ago, are certainly different than what would > be designed in 2017. There's room for something new. I totally agree. What about Dissent?[0] Also funded by DARPA ;) What do you see as promising? [0] http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2015/10/192387-seeking-anonymity-in-an-internet-panopticon/fulltext From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 19:36:28 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:36:28 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/29/16, Mirimir wrote: > So who would use it? I'm guessing that everyone who uses Tor, I2P, etc, > etc would use it. And so we'd be back to where we are now with Tor, with > just the exception that the new system isn't vulnerable to global > adversaries. > > How would you keep statist criminals from using it? When you have a non vulnerable network, or at least one that's equally invulnerable to or exploitable by all participants, the question of who uses it becomes more mooted by that balance. Today's overlay networks are vulnerable to GPA's, which at this stage are just governments and global telecoms... not end users. There's a big imbalance there, and it's not in favor of said users. > There's still the criticism that Tor is intentionally vulnerable to > global adversaries. Maybe it was at first, by design. But it's an > open-source project. Best design principles vs adversaries, as school of thought over a decade ago, are certainly different than what would be designed in 2017. There's room for something new. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 19:59:36 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:59:36 -0400 Subject: LinkNYC Vonage Telephone Kiosks Message-ID: https://cryptome.org/2016/06/linknyc-spy-kiosks-installation-videos.htm At least with payphones you didn't give up much privacy in a time when even voiceprinting by spies would be a challenge. These are vastly different. They do look new and shiny though, certainly very secure... "I do it for one reason and one reason only. I'm learning about a system. The phone company is a System. A computer is a System, do you understand? If I do what I do, it is only to explore a system. Computers, systems, that's my bag. The phone company is nothing but a computer." From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jun 29 23:01:28 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 00:01:28 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <57748E96.1090600@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5774B5B8.5010200@riseup.net> On 06/29/2016 10:34 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 6/29/16, Mirimir wrote: >> What do you see as promising? > > Hard to say as keeping track of all the papers > and few actually coded implementations is hard. Yes, far more papers than implementations. Once you have something that works well enough, or that people are at least so convinced, new ideas don't attract much interest. But maybe that's changing now. > I2P is still interesting as a packet switched net. > PS tech tends to have more modification flexibility > to new pluggable ideas than circuit switching. Why did Tor go with circuit switching? Was it mostly about efficiency? We have a very different Internet now. Also, is it easier to bury packet switching in chaff? > All the other little more specific messaging / file > systems have some good elements. Which ones, in particular? With global active adversaries, which can observe and modify packets on every public network, it's hard to imagine how substantive [anonymity | unlinkability | deniability | privacy] is possible. Sure, every node might send traffic that's not provably nonrandom to every other node at constant rate. But it's still obvious that you're up to something. And once they tweak your traffic, they can look at what other nodes start behaving differently. So I come back to the need for covert channels. > More than asserting something promising from the mess, there > might be value in the prior step of sorting out what may be promising. > There are folks who would be good partners in that. Maybe so. But many of them tend to keep to themselves ;) From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 21:06:31 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 00:06:31 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57748EFC.2050407@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57748EFC.2050407@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/29/16, Rayzer wrote: > The realistic option is an assortment of tools, of which tor is one. Yes this is why people mix things like Freenet over Tor, Bitcoin over I2P, etc. They can run independant, but in the absence of themselves being a perfect overlay network, they add other layers toward achieving that as a whole. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 21:34:20 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 00:34:20 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57748E96.1090600@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <57748E96.1090600@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/29/16, Mirimir wrote: > But you take what you can get. Of course, and build on it. > Also funded by DARPA ;) DARPA is fine so long as you always remember who and what they're procuring for. Which is rightfully a no go among the the ideals of many people. I had this chat with someone once, and they chose to leave their job later on because of that conflict seeded. > What do you see as promising? Hard to say as keeping track of all the papers and few actually coded implementations is hard. I2P is still interesting as a packet switched net. PS tech tends to have more modification flexibility to new pluggable ideas than circuit switching. All the other little more specific messaging / file systems have some good elements. More than asserting something promising from the mess, there might be value in the prior step of sorting out what may be promising. There are folks who would be good partners in that. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 01:18:30 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 04:18:30 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5774B5B8.5010200@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <57748E96.1090600@riseup.net> <5774B5B8.5010200@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 6/30/16, Mirimir wrote: > Yes, far more papers than implementations. Papers are a legitmate validation route before investing in implementation. Though when faced with many rough equivalents, moving to code is the ballsy right move. > Once you have something that > works well enough, or that people are at least so convinced, new ideas > don't attract much interest. But maybe that's changing now. We know fossil fuel is unsustainable at current rates. > Why did Tor go with circuit switching? You'd have to ask Paul and the historical anonbib on that. > Was it mostly about efficiency? Perhaps. And or prevalance of TCP / parts of historical thinking telecom models. > Also, is it easier to bury packet switching in chaff? Which is more programmable and pluggable? Which is harder to emulate with the other? Circuit switching, packet switching, packet switching with MPLS. Why doesn't Ma Bell have 1:1 hardlines from NYC to Delhi? And does it matter to you? > Which ones, in particular? Pick any of them and folks will say some parts are really cool and effective, other parts not so much. > But it's still obvious that you're up to something. It seems very hard to hide that fact. But so long as free speech and or via crypto is upheld, actual fact of usage doesn't seem that bad. If not held, you've probably got bigger problems to where Libtech has to sneak in and Arab Spring your ass out. > And > once they tweak your traffic, they can look at what other nodes start > behaving differently. Not if those other nodes refuse to talk with or pass traffic for you until your traffic falls back in line with expected network params. Think of it this way... TCP is nice because it silently and flexibly adapts to network conditions. When your adversary *is* the network condition, you may not want that feature. Tor checks for invalid packets via the OS stack, cell format and crypto. But it and others have zero visibility into me shaping your throughput into nice waveforms and watching whatever else your NIC does appear straight out the other side somewhere. That's dumb as fuck. > So I come back to the need for covert channels. These are definitely useful. SDR, guerilla community meshnets, sat transponders, tropo, bulk sneakernets. > We have a very different Internet now. What do the spies say? Does it matter? From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jun 30 04:11:54 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 07:11:54 -0400 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > > On Jun 29, 2016, at 7:26 PM, juan wrote: >> >> For sure. But also for online drug dealers. > > Yeah. Ask Ulbricht. Or the guys from agora who made it quite > clear that tor doesn't work. Or freedom hosting, or or or > > Also, what % of 'illegal' drugs are sold through tor? 0.01%? > I wonder if it's even that high? Err no pun intended. I think you'd be a fool to purchase dope over tor.. there are still indictments coming down on low level buyers all over the world, fallout from the first and second Silk Road busts. Also, unless you're looking for somewhat rare entheogens, in general the prices online are way jacked up. I still make all my transactions the old fashioned way - I just feel like agora etc are crawling with Feds and scammers. Risk reward ratio doesn't balance out when the shit so readily available anyway. -- John From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jun 30 05:13:10 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:13:10 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 01:15:04PM -0300, juan wrote: > Since russia is pretty much western, it shares all the western > (or global) political vices. > > Have you noticed how russia went from feudal totalitarianism > (tzarism) to commie totalitarianism, that is feudalism > recycled? Also noticed how the russians adopted a piece of > garbage like the marxist religion, a product 100% 'made in > europe'? > > I do think that the anti russian propaganda coming from > washington and their european vasal states and pets is both > stupid and dangerous, but idealizing russia isn't too helpful > either. I agree. And, honestly, there is propaganda coming from both sides, from all sides. Russia has paid troll farms pumping out pro-Kremlin crap, the US has ridiculous propaganda films like 'American Sniper', etc, etc.. there's so much bullshit flying around sometimes all you can see is brown. -- John From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 29 18:22:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:22:56 +1000 Subject: tribalism - future world order? Message-ID: <20160630012256.GX3088@x220-a02> Tribalism. Seems to be the way of things. This article summarises the countries that have broken up since WWII - from Africa to Europe and Asia. Is North America immune? One day, chickens must come home to roost.. Karmicly, Americans continue to tacitly consent to their government's meddling in so many other countries. Across the globe, 'people want to rule themselves and be themselves': http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/after-brexit-a-trump-path-to-victory/#! (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/after-brexit-trump-path-victory/ri15282 ) From orselcem at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 02:12:46 2016 From: orselcem at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Cem_=C3=96rsel?=) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:12:46 +0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: Whether this is objectively true or not, what good comes out of this nationalistic manner? Every nation on earth tend to see their cultural qualities, superior to other nations. This may look naive at a first glance, but it leads to chauvinism and rivalry. I used to think the best thing about russian culture (not that i know it very well) was that it managed to beat the nationalism and elitism at least once in its history, leading to internationalist practices. Now you counteract it... On Jun 22, 2016 2:49 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > The following is a viewpoint worth comprehending, if not embracing. > > This could be described I guess as the higher intention of a "Russian". > > I consider it may be useful to contemplate ones own version of > "principles" of honour, heart, heroism, worthy sacrifice and all those > other concepts fit for legend and foundations. How else can we speak into > existence a better future, no matter the label used? > > > > > http://orientalreview.org/2016/06/19/the-russian-world-and-european-civilization/ > > (Alt: > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/how-russian-world-differs-ideals-western-civilization/ri15115 > ) > > How the Russian World Differs From the Ideals of Western Civilization > > The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with the > historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit > Anna Zhdanova > (Oriental Review) > > Image: A noble warrior > > Originally appeared at Oriental Review > > In recent years, both the Western as well as the liberal Russian press > have had a lot to say about Russian “barbarianism,” as if to contrast it > with European “civilization.” But a closer inspection – through the prism > of the heroic pages of Russian history – of the two groups’ moral ideals > and actual lives presents us with quite a different picture. > > For example, in pagan times, ancient Russians never worshipped a god of > war, although their contemporaries in Europe were transfixed by their own > martial deity, constructing an entire epic narrative around the concepts > of war and conquest. > > > After defeating the “infidels” (the Golden Horde), Russians never sought > to forcibly convert them to Christianity. In the epic poem “Ilya Muromets > and the Pagan Idol,” the Russian hero liberates Constantinople from that > mythological monstrosity, but refuses to become the voevoda (or ruler) of > the city and returns home. Ancient Russian literature does not include > tales of personal enrichment through conquest or plunder, although this is > a common theme in the Western canon. > > The hero of the “Nibelungenlied” is obsessed with his search for a hidden > treasure – the Rheingold. The main character of the ancient English poem > “Beowulf” dies, having beheld “the gorgeous heirlooms, golden store … Now > I’ve bartered here for booty of treasure the last of my life.” It would > never occur to any hero from a Russian epic to sacrifice his life in > exchange for riches. Ilya Muromets is not even able to accept the > inducement offered by the brigands he meets – the “golden treasure, richly > colored robe, and as many fine horses as he needed” (citation from the > Russian fairytale ( http://tchaykovsky.ru/skazka/murom_solov.htm ) “Ilya > Muromets and Nightingale the Robber”). He did not hesitate to reject the > path by which he would “be rich,” instead voluntarily taking the road on > which he would “be killed.” > > And it is not only in this epic, but also in the legends, tales, songs, > proverbs, and folk wisdom of the Russian people where it is evident that > one’s duty to uphold one’s personal or tribal honor is something quite > distinct from any duty to exact personal or tribal revenge. > > The notion of retaliation, as such, is absent from Russian folklore, as if > it were never part of the original “genetic code” of its people – the > Russian champion has always gone to war as a liberator. And in this we can > see the difference between Russians and Western Europeans. > > The Russian historian and philosopher Ivan Ilyin ( > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin ) wrote: > > “Europe cannot grasp us … because the Slavic and Russian way of > contemplating the world, nature, and man is something alien to it. > Humanity in Western Europe is motivated by will and intellect. The Russian > people are above all guided by their hearts and imaginations, relegating > the mind and will to a supporting role. Therefore, the average European is > ashamed of sincerity, scruples, and kindness, viewing them as > “foolishness.” > > A European, nursed on the ideals of Rome, is secretly contemptuous of > other nations and desires to rule over them. Russians, however, on the > whole expect kindness, scruples, and sincerity from others. > > The Russian people have always enjoyed the natural freedom of the vast > space they inhabit … gazing “in wonder” at other nations, getting along > with them amiably, with hatred only for oppressive invaders … “ > > Russians’ congenial relationships with their geographic neighbors are > testament to their sense of justice and mercy. The Russian people never > committed the same atrocities for which the enlightened Europeans were > responsible in their own conquered lands. > > The psychology of the nation includes a certain principle of moral > restraint. These naturally strong, resilient, dynamic people have been > endowed with an amazing ability to survive. > > This spiritual strength is also the basis for Russians’ renowned > forbearance and tolerance toward others. > > Continually invaded from all sides and forced to live in an incredibly > harsh climate, the Russian people managed to colonize vast swathes of > land, but without slaughtering, enslaving, robbing, or forcibly baptizing > any nation. > > Western Europeans’ policies of colonialism annihilated the aboriginal > populations on three continents and forced natives from across Africa into > slavery, while its cities grew rich on the backs of those colonies. > > The Russian nation, which also waged wars that were not purely defensive, > acquired, like all great nations, large tracts of land, but never treated > their conquered subjects as the Europeans did. The European people reaped > the benefits of Europe’s conquests and its cities were enriched by the > colonial plunder. > > Russians robbed neither Siberia nor Central Asia nor the Caucasus nor the > Baltics. Russia has preserved every nation within its borders, acting as > their protector, granting them the right to own land and property and to > practice their own faith, traditions, and culture. > > Russia has never been a nationalist state – it has belonged to all who > inhabit her. The Russian people were granted only one “advantage” – to > bear the burden of nation-building. > > The resulting state was like no other in the history of the world, and the > Russian people defended it with their own blood, willingly sacrificing > their very lives. > > Precisely because they have borne so much suffering and heavy sacrifice, > my people deeply empathized with the pain and suffering of other peoples > languishing under the Nazi yoke. > > And after liberating their own homeland, Russians channeled that same > spirit of self-sacrifice and energy into liberating half of Europe. > > This was an example of epic heroism! These are the stouthearted people > born of the Russian earth! And I believe that such a feat can be > accomplished even by a great nation only once a century. > > The patriotism displayed by Russian soldiers in the fields of the Great > Patriotic War met the highest ideal of patriotism – something > unprecedented in the history of any nation anywhere in the world. And I > will never agree with the media’s pronouncements about Russian > “barbarianism” vs. European “virtue.” > > I stand proud that our ancestors – our heroic ancestors – were so lovely, > steadfast, courageous, and resilient, and that we are their descendants! > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9177 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sdw at lig.net Thu Jun 30 12:33:22 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> Message-ID: On 6/30/16 5:13 AM, John Newman wrote: > On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 01:15:04PM -0300, juan wrote: >> Since russia is pretty much western, it shares all the western >> (or global) political vices. >> >> Have you noticed how russia went from feudal totalitarianism >> (tzarism) to commie totalitarianism, that is feudalism >> recycled? Also noticed how the russians adopted a piece of >> garbage like the marxist religion, a product 100% 'made in >> europe'? >> >> I do think that the anti russian propaganda coming from >> washington and their european vasal states and pets is both >> stupid and dangerous, but idealizing russia isn't too helpful >> either. > I agree. And, honestly, there is propaganda coming from both sides, > from all sides. Russia has paid troll farms pumping out pro-Kremlin > crap, the US has ridiculous propaganda films like 'American Sniper', > etc, etc.. there's so much bullshit flying around sometimes all you > can see is brown. > The world has a long memory; true propaganda, distorting or outright lying about the actual facts, is going to be quite apparent later. It's fine for Russia to be proud of themselves, but it seems like they have been embarrassing themselves frequently. In the unlikely event that we elect Trump, we might return the favor for a while. But everyone would see through it and know it would stop in 4 years, so it would likely be more humorous than anything. The US is too open and too self-examining in public for much false propaganda to get very far for long. I'm not sure that American Sniper is propaganda, even unintentionally. Seems mostly like highlighting the sad situations people have allowed to happen. Perhaps in the Strongest Tribe sense it has some weight, but snipers are a narrow, special breed. I would think that the magical hand of God like drone war would have more weight. The effect depends on what those people are thinking: Do they realize that they can never win in any serious sense? Do they care or are they fine with just proving a point? The US almost completely holds back on propaganda / education in the world, maybe for fear of or a general policy against being seen to be promulgating propaganda. In most cases, where media and news and the Internet flow openly, it isn't really needed. However, when hardly anyone in Afghanistan knows anything at all about 9/11 or similar, that is a failure of the world to provide even basic knowledge to everyone. Separate from that, just understanding how a modern culture works, whether the US or Europe or any other high-functioning society, would be an important thing for some seriously problematic masses of people to know. I don't care who causes effective education to bring these people up to date with understanding modern cultures, but it needs to happen. In the absence of some other paths, it would seem like an important strategy for both US State and Defense, but I don't see it happening much. The US has no need to try to make people like it; that should not generally be a goal. But the world, especially including the capable Western world, both governments and populations, has a responsibility to educate those with abject ignorance, poverty, and knowing nothing but conflict that there are better ways of being, limitless opportunities, and that they could effectively work to modernize and become effective societies and cultures. We need something similar to 'genocide' to identify pathological ignorance, recognize that it leads to the ruin of many lives, and determine how to take action to stop it. There is no need for each culture to be exactly like the West or a particular form of government, but they should understand the options, understand how things can work effectively and why, and be able to incorporate elements in a local way to eventually make it work. We need to decide how hands off we should be in allowing large areas to fumble about without making progress and even regress. The prime directive should only apply to societies that are functioning to a reasonable degree. An interesting question is whether and how poisoned thinking, i.e. bad memes, are shared, instilled, and propagated to eventually create terrorists and criminals: What should we do to prevent spreading poisonous ideas? Should we be rooting out bad imams, literature, religious leaders? Ideally, our values and culture is an effective answer to these sources, but, just like in the biological world, eventually a successful defense will occur. If you've read The Selfish Gene, you know that truth, rightness, or goodness are not the goals of particular genes or memes (ideas). The only thing that determines success is successful competition and replication. Our Western ideas can successfully compete and replicate against these bad meme sets, but only if they are present. We seem to be in a situation where some of our allies are supporting the teaching of memes that are directly opposed to modern knowledge, including social and political knowledge. What should we do about that? All of this is crosscutting to security, encryption, communication, publishing, and surveillance. Distrust is healthy, and sometimes prudent. And, if we fail totally as a modern society, we may need it to maintain a modern underground in our new dark ages. In addition to safe commerce and social connection, and balancing government and keeping it healthy, we should even better organize and extend the ways that we help enlighten the ignorant while combating meme cancer. I imagine that soon we'll have universally available Internet (LEOs for instance), ultra-inexpensive devices (smart phones are down to $50 or less now), and organized, complete, and effective educational material that is somehow available, safe, and effective for everyone. There should be some kind of support systems of various kinds, to the extent possible. We are failing for not working toward these kind of things effectively enough. sdw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6841 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jun 29 20:39:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 13:39:48 +1000 Subject: tribalism - future world order? In-Reply-To: References: <20160630012256.GX3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160630033948.GZ3088@x220-a02> I agree. Well said. On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 08:43:18PM -0500, Xer0Dynamite wrote: > It need not be. If America and the G20 countries simply allow the > Natives to live in the wilderness and keep rivers pure, it would make > up for the sins of history. That would allow a reformation of > government. Just like an individual doesn't graduate in life until > they've cleared up their own mistakes and set them right, the dominant > countries need to sweep that white elephant right out of the rug it's > kept on top of it for 100 years. > > On 6/29/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Tribalism. Seems to be the way of things. This article summarises the > > countries that have broken up since WWII - from Africa to Europe and > > Asia. > > > > Is North America immune? > > > > One day, chickens must come home to roost.. Karmicly, Americans continue > > to tacitly consent to their government's meddling in so many other > > countries. > > > > > > Across the globe, 'people want to rule themselves and be themselves': > > http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/after-brexit-a-trump-path-to-victory/#! > > > > (Alt: > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/after-brexit-trump-path-victory/ri15282 > > ) From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jun 30 06:30:50 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:30:50 +0300 Subject: Filling out captchas helps google train AI models In-Reply-To: <57745812.1030307@pilobilus.net> References: <576479BD.4010809@mail-on.us> <20160618082334.GB688@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57745812.1030307@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160630133050.GA1516@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 07:21:54PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > I have run into sites where their 100% insoluble captchas were used to > support the pretense of a "free" service option for non-subscribers. > Apparently their SEO consultants* saw some benefit in annoying the > hell out of users and discouraging them from believing that the sites > in question work at all, paid account or not. > >From my experience, the less javascript you allow, the more insoluble the captchas are. With all javascript + cookies the captchas are easy in general. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 13:10:39 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 17:10:39 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> Message-ID: <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > In the unlikely > event that we elect Trump, He is unlikely to be elected because he's marginally better than that murderours cunt, your boss hitlery. > The US is too > open and too self-examining in public for much false propaganda to > get very far for long. Of course. The only propaganda that the US tolerates is 'true' propaganda. > > I'm not sure that American Sniper is propaganda, Of course not. It's not propaganda! It's jew-kristian art. > The US almost completely holds back on propaganda Right. The US psycho-leaders and all their sheep don't even know what 'propaganda' means. They've never seen any, let alone produced it. > However, when hardly > anyone in Afghanistan knows anything at all about 9/11 or similar, That's interesting. So you know exactly what the population of afghanistan (let's assume 25 million) knows? How did you manage that one? You must have a high ranking position in the americunt 'national security' 'industry' eh. And you speak a few varieties of persian I assume? > that is a failure of the world to provide even basic knowledge to > everyone. And now you sound flatly crazy. The 'world' is supposed to provide knowledge? What, you think "world" means "fascist public indoctrination system"? At any rate, I'd bet a couple of cents that people in afhanistan know about your 9/11 false flag attack. > it would seem like an important strategy for both US State and > Defense, but I don't see it happening much. So we have a piece of neocunt shit making world domination plans in the cpunks mailing list. How cute is that? Anyway, enough time wasted. > > The US has no need to try to make people like it; that should not > generally be a goal. But the world, especially including the capable > Western world, both governments and populations, has a responsibility > to educate those with abject ignorance, poverty, and knowing nothing > but conflict that there are better ways of being, limitless > opportunities, and that they could effectively work to modernize and > become effective societies and cultures. We need something similar > to 'genocide' to identify pathological ignorance, recognize that it > leads to the ruin of many lives, and determine how to take action to > stop it. There is no need for each culture to be exactly like the > West or a particular form of government, but they should understand > the options, understand how things can work effectively and why, and > be able to incorporate elements in a local way to eventually make it > work. We need to decide how hands off we should be in allowing large > areas to fumble about without making progress and even regress. The > prime directive should only apply to societies that are functioning > to a reasonable degree. > > An interesting question is whether and how poisoned thinking, i.e. > bad memes, are shared, instilled, and propagated to eventually create > terrorists and criminals: What should we do to prevent spreading > poisonous ideas? Should we be rooting out bad imams, literature, > religious leaders? Ideally, our values and culture is an effective > answer to these sources, but, just like in the biological world, > eventually a successful defense will occur. If you've read The > Selfish Gene, you know that truth, rightness, or goodness are not the > goals of particular genes or memes (ideas). The only thing that > determines success is successful competition and replication. Our > Western ideas can successfully compete and replicate against these > bad meme sets, but only if they are present. We seem to be in a > situation where some of our allies are supporting the teaching of > memes that are directly opposed to modern knowledge, including social > and political knowledge. What should we do about that? > > All of this is crosscutting to security, encryption, communication, > publishing, and surveillance. Distrust is healthy, and sometimes > prudent. And, if we fail totally as a modern society, we may need it > to maintain a modern underground in our new dark ages. In addition > to safe commerce and social connection, and balancing government and > keeping it healthy, we should even better organize and extend the > ways that we help enlighten the ignorant while combating meme cancer. > > I imagine that soon we'll have universally available Internet (LEOs > for instance), ultra-inexpensive devices (smart phones are down to > $50 or less now), and organized, complete, and effective educational > material that is somehow available, safe, and effective for > everyone. There should be some kind of support systems of various > kinds, to the extent possible. We are failing for not working toward > these kind of things effectively enough. > > sdw > From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 16:54:57 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 19:54:57 -0400 Subject: Google's FASTER Sea Cable... exploited faster? Message-ID: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/new-faster-trans-pacific/2915510.html http://9to5google.com/2016/06/29/faster-cable-system-google/ http://subtelforum.com/articles/google-faster-cable-system-is-ready-for-service-boosts-trans-pacific-capacity-and-connectivity/ Cables are generally not end to end encrypted, nor do transit buyers do so... just what tapping fun trails behind the cable ships at 1000m, and what secret deals can be heard with spy mics in the boardroom. http://www.ijcte.org/vol7/929-AC0006.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/28/politics/russian-submarine-expansion-atlantic/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221003490_Node_pattern_simulation_of_an_undersea_sensor_network_using_RF_electromagnetic_communications http://www.mit.edu/~millitsa/resources/pdfs/royal.pdf http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/06/chinas-seaweb-undersea-surveillance.html http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2069325-china-is-building-an-underwater-great-wall-to-counter-us-submarines/ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-07/china-pushes-plan-for-oceanic-space-station-in-south-china-sea https://builtvisible.com/messages-in-the-deep/ For the nodules :) From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jun 30 17:55:12 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:55:12 -0400 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <5772067B.5090701@pilobilus.net> <5772D5A1.7010700@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <5775BF70.8070405@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/29/2016 09:37 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Fool PS: - Uh, thinking a bit better, "free animal cruelty" and > "animal cruelty free" are *not* the same thing and I made a pretty > cruel mistake, absolutely not vegan... Poor animals! :-/ Speaking of thinking, I don't know what I was thinking when I failed to post this packet of political propaganda, pertaining to proper procedures for prudent populist power players: http://pilobilus.net/strategic_conflict_docs_intro.html The archive with the docs: Strategic_Nonviolent_Conflict.zip MD5: 40a9370ea4b08eebabcd0c4af5f48884 SHA256: 30782d439a0b32e88a26f9078ca01dcdb536fcf67de19a083ed21a93c135c680 :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXdb9wAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqfbQIALqU8WvOmf598tzpUW0ZO1ej 7gPwXV8J6lozL+a5YhYjwxCLtkQo3lCXP1yuATbLZZBaloAQ7zq6ZdDdDaqiYyYl xS+H3ctBcLuoTNUQQtcPaVil2qc4kDw9SuOg+AdHTziRdEwElz+HThwqJOrvwb3T 5IA4lzkNkAoK1hJ65j3bIBjOHW7OvkwTUlOouGj7JgDqYizuHmcGEULm3jt+akZg Sk4PzVG7yBa5kofhNRux78Ook4JMl4G0bftperipwEtoO1jRQr15vtn5yMWfnQT9 b8ZyDplqQxt9dprMGavghkoBcgygyNNk2GnFnSgVp5b4ELIPHP81bTUCgN6eFM4= =n7FE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jun 30 04:36:07 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:36:07 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160630113607.GA9172@x220-a02> > Whether this is objectively true or not, what good comes out of this > nationalistic manner? Every nation on earth tend to see their cultural > qualities, superior to other nations. This may look naive at a first > glance, but it leads to chauvinism and rivalry. I used to think the best > thing about russian culture (not that i know it very well) was that it > managed to beat the nationalism and elitism at least once in its history, > leading to internationalist practices. Now you counteract it... I see it a bit different than that. For me, part of the Russian way is humility for example, which I see lacking in a lot of Australian politicians for example. I am Australian, but I actually see "being Russian" as something to strive for - kind of like "being someone who works towards one best self perceived potential for oneself". Sorry, I don't really have the words for it... but for me a "true Russian" is someone who seeks a higher potential, for themselves, their neighbours, the whole world. This is quite different to the plain "someone who lives within the borders of the country currently called Russia". And Russians today have the "benefit" if we can call it that, of having collectively gone through hell and back, in the current last few generations (WWII and the collapse of the USSR - very hard times). Perhaps for some geographic Russians, there is a prideful nationalism, but I think it is not so much - USSR was the world's second only superpower, then bam, USSR is no more, there's a breakup into a dozen countries, and suddenly "geographic Russians" are now separated all over eastern Europe, in so many different countries, families now need visas and travel permission to visit each other. And this isn't isolated experience, this is experience for many many millions of people! Russians genuinely looked up to the West. We were presented as the moral high ground, the ethically superior system - and, thankfully, many/ most Russians now see this "political" bullshit for what it was. Anyone can be Russian. Even anarchists :) From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 18:52:46 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:52:46 -0400 Subject: Report: US crypto regulation... flawed Message-ID: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/government-encryption-regulation-report-criticism https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Going-Dark-Going-Forward.pdf US Republican congressional staff trying to find a middle ground on encryption have said previous efforts to regulate privacy technology were flawed and that lawmakers need to learn more about technology before trying to regulate it, according to a report released on Wednesday. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jun 30 22:27:45 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:27:45 -0600 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> Message-ID: <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> On 06/30/2016 10:51 PM, Александр wrote: > 2016-06-30 22:33 GMT+03:00 Stephen D. Williams : > In this loooong comment, i see so many lies and propaganda... so many > delusions and contradictions (some of them Juan has commented), so many > psychological techniques that mislead the direction of the discussed > subject/s.... that it seems like *a big fucken ameriCunt SARCASM*, when > someone claims, among other false things, that there is no propaganda > in/from the us, providing a billion tons of cheap US propaganda by himself. I totally agree, Александр. I could barely stand to read it all. But I don't trust what the Russian government says, either. Russian people, however, I love. Especially the anarchists :) From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 21:51:55 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 07:51:55 +0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> Message-ID: 2016-06-30 22:33 GMT+03:00 Stephen D. Williams : > The world has a long memory; true propaganda, distorting or outright lying > about the actual facts, is going to be quite apparent later. It's fine for > Russia to be proud of themselves, but it seems like they have been > embarrassing themselves frequently. In the unlikely event that we elect > Trump, we might return the favor for a while. But everyone would see > through it and know it would stop in 4 years, so it would likely be more > humorous than anything. The US is too open and too self-examining in > public for much false propaganda to get very far for long. > > I'm not sure that American Sniper is propaganda, even unintentionally. > Seems mostly like highlighting the sad situations people have allowed to > happen. Perhaps in the Strongest Tribe sense it has some weight, but > snipers are a narrow, special breed. I would think that the magical hand > of God like drone war would have more weight. The effect depends on what > those people are thinking: Do they realize that they can never win in any > serious sense? Do they care or are they fine with just proving a point? > > The US almost completely holds back on propaganda / education in the > world, maybe for fear of or a general policy against being seen to be > promulgating propaganda. In most cases, where media and news and the > Internet flow openly, it isn't really needed. However, when hardly anyone > in Afghanistan knows anything at all about 9/11 or similar, that is a > failure of the world to provide even basic knowledge to everyone. Separate > from that, just understanding how a modern culture works, whether the US or > Europe or any other high-functioning society, would be an important thing > for some seriously problematic masses of people to know. I don't care who > causes effective education to bring these people up to date with > understanding modern cultures, but it needs to happen. In the absence of > some other paths, it would seem like an important strategy for both US > State and Defense, but I don't see it happening much. > > The US has no need to try to make people like it; that should not > generally be a goal. But the world, especially including the capable > Western world, both governments and populations, has a responsibility to > educate those with abject ignorance, poverty, and knowing nothing but > conflict that there are better ways of being, limitless opportunities, and > that they could effectively work to modernize and become effective > societies and cultures. We need something similar to 'genocide' to > identify pathological ignorance, recognize that it leads to the ruin of > many lives, and determine how to take action to stop it. There is no need > for each culture to be exactly like the West or a particular form of > government, but they should understand the options, understand how things > can work effectively and why, and be able to incorporate elements in a > local way to eventually make it work. We need to decide how hands off we > should be in allowing large areas to fumble about without making progress > and even regress. The prime directive should only apply to societies that > are functioning to a reasonable degree. > > An interesting question is whether and how poisoned thinking, i.e. bad > memes, are shared, instilled, and propagated to eventually create > terrorists and criminals: What should we do to prevent spreading poisonous > ideas? Should we be rooting out bad imams, literature, religious leaders? > Ideally, our values and culture is an effective answer to these sources, > but, just like in the biological world, eventually a successful defense > will occur. If you've read The Selfish Gene, you know that truth, > rightness, or goodness are not the goals of particular genes or memes > (ideas). The only thing that determines success is successful competition > and replication. Our Western ideas can successfully compete and replicate > against these bad meme sets, but only if they are present. We seem to be > in a situation where some of our allies are supporting the teaching of > memes that are directly opposed to modern knowledge, including social and > political knowledge. What should we do about that? > > All of this is crosscutting to security, encryption, communication, > publishing, and surveillance. Distrust is healthy, and sometimes prudent. > And, if we fail totally as a modern society, we may need it to maintain a > modern underground in our new dark ages. In addition to safe commerce and > social connection, and balancing government and keeping it healthy, we > should even better organize and extend the ways that we help enlighten the > ignorant while combating meme cancer. > > I imagine that soon we'll have universally available Internet (LEOs for > instance), ultra-inexpensive devices (smart phones are down to $50 or less > now), and organized, complete, and effective educational material that is > somehow available, safe, and effective for everyone. There should be some > kind of support systems of various kinds, to the extent possible. We are > failing for not working toward these kind of things effectively enough. > In this loooong comment, i see so many lies and propaganda... so many delusions and contradictions (some of them Juan has commented), so many psychological techniques that mislead the direction of the discussed subject/s.... that it seems like *a big fucken ameriCunt SARCASM*, when someone claims, among other false things, that there is no propaganda in/from the us, providing a billion tons of cheap US propaganda by himself. >_< -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6627 bytes Desc: not available URL: