From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 1 00:41:21 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2016 00:41:21 -0700 Subject: Propaganda Is Beautiful [was: comprehending the heart's nationalism] In-Reply-To: <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> Message-ID: <22330bf838bf6ca0db784e75a26f64ca@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Александр: > propaganda > Art is propaganda. Everything is art. Some propaganda [has images]: http://www.crestock.com/blog/design/propaganda-design-aesthetics-soviet-retro-posters-118.aspx http://www.crestock.com/blog/design/the-evolution-of-propaganda-design-us-retro-posters-122.aspx Wordlife, Spencer From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 08:44:19 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:44:19 -0700 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57768FD3.3070301@riseup.net> On 06/30/2016 02:12 AM, Cem Örsel quoted Zenaan Harkness" quoting Oriental Review: > The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with the > historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit > Anna Zhdanova In a picture. An elderly Russian woman drunk and down on the snow-patched ground in a rural area of Russia with a klezmer band playing for her and other folks offering food, In the US there's be people standing around with cellies calling the cops and tsk tsk-ing The image and context came from Foreign Policy magazine a few years ago https://i.imgur.com/wi1Amd5.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 01:19:58 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 11:19:58 +0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> Message-ID: 2016-07-01 8:27 GMT+03:00 Mirimir < ​​ mirimir at riseup.net>: > Russian > ​ ​ > people, however, I love. > Especially the anarchists :) > > Mirmir, thanks for the declaration of Love. it's mutual *ツ* ​ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1308 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 08:08:41 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:08:41 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [Programming] Tutoriais de Diversas Linguagens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everybody! :) I was thinking about sending this message only for Juan because it was written in Portuguese, but these links are interesting for everybody who wants to learn a bit more about programming in several languages. #love <3 Sorry, my strong migraine is killing me now, so I won't translate my original message, but, yes, even feeling pain, the links made me really happy and I had lots of sincere laughs writing that e-mail and reading the manifesto, hihi... ;)) Hope it can make you smile too. Lots of love and kisses!!! <3 Ceci PS 1: - Mirimir, I love you! Migraine, lots of pain, neck tension, fever, my lovely insomnia... but I have electricity, internet, water and music, so life is still fun, yay!!! <3 PS 2: - Juan, the word "fuderosa" doesn't exist. I mixed a Brazilian bad word and the adjetive "poderosa". It means that Samuel Jackson has a f*cking powerful voice, hihi... :) Hey, I am helping a MIT researcher with an open repository of lyrics, a pretty cute project! Would you like to help her? She also needs lyrics in Spanish and more references of artists from Spain, Mexico, Argentina, etc... :D ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" Date: Jul 1, 2016 11:37 AM Subject: [Programming] Tutoriais de Diversas Linguagens To: "hackerspaces-brasil at googlegroups.com" < hackerspaces-brasil at googlegroups.com> Cc: "thackday at googlegroups.com" Queridos, Dezenas de tutoriais de diversas linguagens, porque é essencial "Become a Programmer, Motherfucker", hahaha!!! ;D http://programming-motherfucker.com/become.html O Manifesto "Programming Motherfucker", uma paródia do "Agile Manifesto", me fez rir mais do que deveria, admito, hahaha!!! ;D http://programming-motherfucker.com/ Perdão, queridos, realmente não consigo parar de imaginar a voz fuderosa do Samuel Jackson dizendo "Programming Motherfucker" enquanto escrevo esta mensagem, hahahaha!!! ;D Estou LOLando alegremente até agora, hahaha!!! Perdão, Agile Lovers, Devs e todos que detestam palavrões, mas risadas e material de estudo *sempre* são úteis, eeee!!! :D :D :D Beijos, amor e muitas risadas para todos!!! Excelente final de semana, eeee!!! <3 Ceci, bobaaa... :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3103 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 12:39:30 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:39:30 -0700 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5776b909.dd21c80a.c5677.ffffbd6e@mx.google.com> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <57768FD3.3070301@riseup.net> <5776b909.dd21c80a.c5677.ffffbd6e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5776C6F2.2070700@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 11:42 AM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:44:19 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 06/30/2016 02:12 AM, Cem Örsel quoted Zenaan Harkness" quoting >> Oriental Review: >> >>> The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with >>> the historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit >>> Anna Zhdanova >> In a picture. > > In a picture, Dostoyevski sent to siberia. > In a picture Chelsea Manning gets 35 years in a military prison for exposing war crimes. Dostoyevski got off easy. You're conflating apples and hand grenades troll. I suppose you also think today's average German citizen is responsible for the 3rd Reich... troll. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 12:47:57 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:47:57 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5776C8ED.8000408@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 12:28 PM, juan quoted mirmir: >> > By providing freedom and privacy for state subjects. > Still waiting for the evidence that 'proves' your absurd claim. Open source code allowing for discovery of flaws and concurrent fixes is proof of concept. You're looking for "perfect" security. That's why I think you're a fucking fascist, Juan. Fascists WORSHIP some fubar ideation of 'perfection'. Of genetics, of social conformity, of human features such as eye color... of code. 100+ malicious nodes found snooping on Tor hidden services. https://motherboard.vice.com/read/over-100-snooping-tor-nodes-have-been-spying-on-dark-web-sites -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 10:06:52 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 14:06:52 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [Programming] Tutoriais de Diversas Linguagens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [OT] [Friday silly message] Definitely, without any doubt, I am the world's worst programmer, but this kind of thing is pure love, ow! *-* http://helloworldcollection.de I love esoteric programming languages and "hello world" using ArnoldC is pretty cute! I didn't know this language! <3 https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC/wiki/ArnoldC But this is my favorite language, the only one that makes me feel like a great ninja programmer, yay!!! :D http://yiap.nfshost.com/esoteric/unnecessary/unnecessary.html Unnecessary is an esoteric programming language. The language is named 'Unnecessary' because of the method this programming language works: the source file is unnecessary; in fact the existence of source code file leads to critical error. In case of critical error the interpreter must stop immediately and report the error. Unnecessary has no instructions/commands. You can do nothing with this language, so using it is unnecessary as well. The whole Unnecessary program is NOP. Or actually, there should be no Unnecessary programs, since only valid Unnecessary program is a non-existing source code file. The goal was to create a programming language that is easy to learn, not very useful, doesn't require input or do output, has no memory, has no instructions. Only an interpreter is required. As well, good thing is that distributing Unnecessary programs is extremely easy, and can be done without computers. As well, storage is no problem: you can have infinite amount of Unnecessary programs in a memory bit. Actually, storing them requires less memory than a bit. Every valid program, however, is a quine. That's the only possible program, and the only valid form of program. In Unnecessary creating a null quine doesn't even require the existence of the empty program file, as in other languages. Has programming ever been easier?(Not to mention that it isn't even possible to write anything else than bug-free code!) Oh, and the valid Unnecessary program file extension is "unn". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2333 bytes Desc: not available URL: From boston at csail.mit.edu Fri Jul 1 12:39:09 2016 From: boston at csail.mit.edu (Brett Boston) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 15:39:09 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [Programming] Tutoriais de Diversas Linguagens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5776C6DD.7010304@csail.mit.edu> > http://yiap.nfshost.com/esoteric/unnecessary/unnecessary.html > > What a cute idea! Unfortunately, the interpreter doesn't meet their specification. That is, open() can raise IOError in cases where a file exists (such as when the user running the interpreter doesn't have the proper permissions). Clearly this should have been formally verified! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 11:42:02 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 15:42:02 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57768FD3.3070301@riseup.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <57768FD3.3070301@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5776b909.dd21c80a.c5677.ffffbd6e@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:44:19 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 06/30/2016 02:12 AM, Cem Örsel quoted Zenaan Harkness" quoting > Oriental Review: > > > The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with > > the historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit > > Anna Zhdanova > > In a picture. In a picture, Dostoyevski sent to siberia. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 12:28:54 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 16:28:54 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:39:04 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > > > Yeah. Ask Ulbricht. Or the guys from agora who made it > > quite clear that tor doesn't work. Or freedom hosting, or or or > > Ulbricht went down because associates fucked up, got busted, and > cooperated with investigators. Also, it seems that his OPSEC sucked. You parroted bullshit from the feds : you earned -10 points [deleted lots of dishonest bullshit] > > >> But the important point is that > >> Tor has overall reduced state power. > >> > > > > Yeah well. Sounds nice. Too bad there's zero evidence for > > that claim. Actually the claim is pretty absurd. How can a project > > of the US military whose purpose is to serve the US military > > and the US state 'reduce state power'? > > By providing freedom and privacy for state subjects. Still waiting for the evidence that 'proves' your absurd claim. The tor project is good for the military and state. Therefore it's bad for the military's and the state's victims. Buy yeah, first rule of the torbot : play dumb and parrot propaganda. > > As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe that > anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and freedom. I > also believe that they may eventually reduce state power > substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like a dream. OK. This is the first reasonable and honest thing you said. You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 12:51:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 16:51:41 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5776C6F2.2070700@riseup.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <57768FD3.3070301@riseup.net> <5776b909.dd21c80a.c5677.ffffbd6e@mx.google.com> <5776C6F2.2070700@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5776c95c.0709370a.3946d.ffffa008@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:39:30 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/01/2016 11:42 AM, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:44:19 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> > >> On 06/30/2016 02:12 AM, Cem Örsel quoted Zenaan Harkness" quoting > >> Oriental Review: > >> > >>> The Russian ideal is more benevolent, contrasting noticeably with > >>> the historical Western hankering to dominate, subdue and exploit > >>> Anna Zhdanova > >> In a picture. > > > > In a picture, Dostoyevski sent to siberia. > > > > In a picture Chelsea Manning gets 35 years in a military prison for > exposing war crimes. Dostoyevski got off easy. Got off easy? You are a sick piece of shit rayzer. Well, that is hardly news. > You're conflating apples and hand grenades troll. I suppose you also > think today's average German citizen is responsible for the 3rd > Reich... troll. > > > > > > Rr > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 13:03:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 17:03:16 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5776C8ED.8000408@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <5776C8ED.8000408@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5776cc13.7028c80a.b0a9e.6341@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 12:47:57 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/01/2016 12:28 PM, juan quoted mirmir: > >> > By providing freedom and privacy for state subjects. > > Still waiting for the evidence that 'proves' your absurd > > claim. > > > Open source code LOL - you are way beyond stupid - and trolling. What the fuck has 'open source' got to do with the dishonest and baseless claim made by mirimir? Anwer : no - thing. So we'll be waiting for the evidence showing how the pentagon advances freedom...forever...cause the evidence does not exist. > allowing for discovery of flaws and concurrent fixes > is proof of concept. > > You're looking for "perfect" security. That's why I think you're a > fucking fascist, Juan. Ah rayzer, you really don't know what else to say. Only a fucktard like you would try to equate individualist anarchist with 'fascist' =) You on the other hand are a mix of marxist commie with...americunt fascist! Go suck the pentagon's cock, asshole. And why are you, a dumb anti-liberal bot in this list, apart from trolling? Eh rayzer? Oh I know you 'have' to pay the bills... > Fascists WORSHIP some fubar ideation of > 'perfection'. lol - pyschobabble comming from a commie fascist. Isn't that cute. > Of genetics, of social conformity, that would be the ideal of commie marxists like you - either obey society or die. As matter of fact, scumbag, you devoted more than a few messages to make the point that individuals should obey 'society' or the 'species' or some other deranged 'collective' 'entity'. > of human features > such as eye color... of code. > > 100+ malicious nodes found snooping on Tor hidden services. > > https://motherboard.vice.com/read/over-100-snooping-tor-nodes-have-been-spying-on-dark-web-sites > > > > > From gmoss82 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 17:40:16 2016 From: gmoss82 at gmail.com (Greg Moss) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 17:40:16 -0700 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Message-ID: hi hi Cecilia honey. I have been a spending all day and night (haven't left computer for month) reading all your wonderful post and 0ther BS propaganda on this list. I luv you ;-). On Jul 1, 2016 5:34 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > On Jul 1, 2016 8:21 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > > > Land of the free. Home of the brave. > > > > All hail America. > > Zenaan, my dear, your country serves Vegemite to children. It's a pretty > serious crime against humanity and it occurs daily, in all Australian > schools. > > It has lots of sodium, a disgusting flavour and stinks more than my > disastrous homemade Sauerkraut. Am I saying "Hail Australia", Land of > Vegemite and Home of Crocodilo Dundee? :-) > > This crime was horrible, really shocking and sad, but the point is > recognizing publicly the existence of a repulsive crime and never more > permiss that something similar occurs in the whole world, not just > criticizing a country. Sorry, it doesn't make sense. > > I do love my country, but it never will be a blind stupid love. There are > lots of disgusting crimes here and also in your country, in the USA, in > Russia, in the whole world. No exceptions. > > The USA are not my favorite country, but it was not a regional problem. > Violent crimes happen in every single country of this world, including > Russia. Please, remember it. > > Ah, for your knowledge, I hate all the governments, including Russian. No > exceptions here too. As Mirimir, I love Russian people, but it is too much > innocence believing that Russian government is better than North-American > government. Both are disgusting. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2041 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 18:15:15 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:15:15 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:39:04 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >>> >>> Yeah. Ask Ulbricht. Or the guys from agora who made it >>> quite clear that tor doesn't work. Or freedom hosting, or or or >> >> Ulbricht went down because associates fucked up, got busted, and >> cooperated with investigators. Also, it seems that his OPSEC sucked. > > You parroted bullshit from the feds : you earned -10 points So what do you say actually happened? What are your sources? > [deleted lots of dishonest bullshit] > > > >> >>>> But the important point is that >>>> Tor has overall reduced state power. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah well. Sounds nice. Too bad there's zero evidence for >>> that claim. Actually the claim is pretty absurd. How can a project >>> of the US military whose purpose is to serve the US military >>> and the US state 'reduce state power'? >> >> By providing freedom and privacy for state subjects. > > > Still waiting for the evidence that 'proves' your absurd claim. I know quite a few :) > The tor project is good for the military and state. Therefore > it's bad for the military's and the state's victims. > > Buy yeah, first rule of the torbot : play dumb and parrot > propaganda. > > >> >> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe that >> anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and freedom. I >> also believe that they may eventually reduce state power >> substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like a dream. > > OK. This is the first reasonable and honest thing you said. > > You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a > 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. That's fundamentally the cypherpunk dream, I believe. So why do you bother being on this list, if you think that it's all bullshit? From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 18:55:42 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:55:42 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 07:28 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:15:15 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > > >>>> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe >>>> that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and >>>> freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power >>>> substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like a dream. >>> >>> OK. This is the first reasonable and honest thing you said. >>> >>> You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a >>> 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. >> >> That's fundamentally the cypherpunk dream, I believe. So why do you >> bother being on this list, if you think that it's all bullshit? > > > Bullshit is all the tor propaganda you vomited and vomit, > fucktard. > . > And I don't think the cypherpunk dream is to have a fake > anonmity network created and run by the pentagon. Unlike you, > apparently. Yore reading comprehension sucks ;) Read the fucking paragraph that you quoted. It says nothing about Tor. It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're apparently saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you? But right now, Tor is the best we have. So we use it, with suitable precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest? From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:08:50 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 20:08:50 -0700 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57773042.7020806@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 06:38 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > then how can we say anything but support for Juan's outspoken vehemence? ROTF! Because he won't be satisfied with anything less than perfect bulletproof cant-bust-em security. That's delusional and I don't pander to people's delusions. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:11:20 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 20:11:20 -0700 Subject: using gnupg with mutt In-Reply-To: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> References: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577730D8.6090606@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 07:32 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Does anyone know how to have an automatic association between a pgp > public key and a 'specified by me' email address? > > As in, some people create gpg keys which do not include their email > address, and I would have thought it trivial for me, in my own keyring, > to associate a public key I have received, with one or more email > addresses of my choosing (and / or the person's name, as fair as I know > the name etc). > > gpg --edit-key HASH > brings up a prompt, and help gives things like trust and list, and there > is a "notation" sub command which sounds perfect for the job, but can > only operate on private keys, not public keys. > > This all does not make sense to me. When someone sends me an email, > signed with their private key, and I get a copy of their public key, I > should be able to associate their public key, with their email address, > even if their own signing of their pub/sub public key does not include > that particular (or any) email address. > > What gives? > > TIA > What gives? Waiting for Juan to tell us how compromised gpg is and that you're a fed if you question his (snigger) authority. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 19:13:23 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 20:13:23 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 07:38 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Juan says "I will not compromise the safety of a fellow fighter no > matter what", and he sacrifices the appearance of civility to try to > achieve this - to try to support our brothers who want to fight, who > want to whistleblow, who want to undermine the murderers in our world. > > Leading potential fighters astray in their thinking is essentially > unforgiveable - which is why I am bound by my own conscience to always > say "Juan, thank you! So few speak up as much as you do, for those who > genuinely need someone to speak up for them!" > > How can we let down our brothers so much? Well, Juan basically tells them to use nothing. Or at least, I haven't managed to elicit any substantive recommendations. So what the fuck? > Yes, speak our dreams, our hopes! But do so honestly! Yes, the Tor Project is bullshitting people, and that's evil. > "Positive thinking" is not about deceiving ourselves or those who read > our proclamations on crypto anarchist software. And in fact it's quite > the opposite as I hope is clear by now - let's get off the hippy flower > power "positive speaking will magically manifest secure anonymising > software" bullshit bandwagon, and speak bluntly, plainly, and clearly so > onlookers are NEVER deceived! I'm not about positive thinking, but rather about working with what's available. And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, for example. Even though it was built for the US military. > Surely this is the LEAST we can do for our potential future brothers in > punk land?! > From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:07:22 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:07:22 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57772960.cf22c80a.e3106.ffffeaf1@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> <57772960.cf22c80a.e3106.ffffeaf1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57772FEA.4020501@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 08:41 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:55:42 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >>> Mirimir wrote: >>> >>>>>> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe >>>>>> that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and >>>>>> freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state >>>>>> power substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like >>>>>> a dream. >>>>> > >> >> Yore reading comprehension sucks ;) > > I don't think so. > >> >> Read the fucking paragraph that you quoted. It says nothing about Tor. > > Dude! Context! > > The whole discussion was about tor! And at some point > you said > > "I also believe that they may eventually reduce state > power substantially" > > "They" stands for "anonymity systems" which in this > 'context' basically means tor. Even more so since you keep > repeating that tor is the best system 'we' have. As I said, your reading comprehension sucks. Or you're just twisting shit to pretend that you're right. > So you say that 'anonimity systems' *may eventually* reduce > state power, from which it follows that RIGHT NOW, THEY > DON'T. And you further acknowledge that such reduction seems > like a dream. > > So you basically conceded my point. I simply reading your > allegedly 'general' comment in a way that underscores the fact > that tor doesn't work. It works for many people. > Would *working* anonimity systems reduce state power? Likely > yes. Do the current anonimity systems reduce state power? No. > Especially tor, a creation of the state. So you keep saying. >> It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're apparently >> saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you? > > Anonimity systems in general include tor in particular. Yes, but statements about anonymity systems generally aren't limited to Tor. >> But right now, Tor is the best we have. > > Yeah. You said so a couple of times... > > >> So we use it, with suitable >> precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest? >> > > I suggest you stop using the pronoun 'we'. *You* find the 'free' > tax-funded pentagon's 'anonimity' network useful and apparently > don't care much about the real price of the system. No, I don't care about the "real price of the system". Why should I? And, as I said before, people that you hate would be using any effective anonymity system. So you might as well get over it. > I further suggest that anybody interested in freedom stay away > from the pentagon. Doubly so if they are cypherpunk > 'anarchists' or sympathetic to the cause. The Pentagon is everywhere, dude ;) From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:08:54 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:08:54 -0600 Subject: using gnupg with mutt In-Reply-To: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> References: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57773046.5020008@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 08:32 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Does anyone know how to have an automatic association between a pgp > public key and a 'specified by me' email address? That's easy in Enigmail. > As in, some people create gpg keys which do not include their email > address, and I would have thought it trivial for me, in my own keyring, > to associate a public key I have received, with one or more email > addresses of my choosing (and / or the person's name, as fair as I know > the name etc). > > gpg --edit-key HASH > brings up a prompt, and help gives things like trust and list, and there > is a "notation" sub command which sounds perfect for the job, but can > only operate on private keys, not public keys. > > This all does not make sense to me. When someone sends me an email, > signed with their private key, and I get a copy of their public key, I > should be able to associate their public key, with their email address, > even if their own signing of their pub/sub public key does not include > that particular (or any) email address. > > What gives? > > TIA > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 17:26:39 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:26:39 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2016 8:21 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > Land of the free. Home of the brave. > > All hail America. Zenaan, my dear, your country serves Vegemite to children. It's a pretty serious crime against humanity and it occurs daily, in all Australian schools. It has lots of sodium, a disgusting flavour and stinks more than my disastrous homemade Sauerkraut. Am I saying "Hail Australia", Land of Vegemite and Home of Crocodilo Dundee? :-) This crime was horrible, really shocking and sad, but the point is recognizing publicly the existence of a repulsive crime and never more permiss that something similar occurs in the whole world, not just criticizing a country. Sorry, it doesn't make sense. I do love my country, but it never will be a blind stupid love. There are lots of disgusting crimes here and also in your country, in the USA, in Russia, in the whole world. No exceptions. The USA are not my favorite country, but it was not a regional problem. Violent crimes happen in every single country of this world, including Russia. Please, remember it. Ah, for your knowledge, I hate all the governments, including Russian. No exceptions here too. As Mirimir, I love Russian people, but it is too much innocence believing that Russian government is better than North-American government. Both are disgusting. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1513 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:32:27 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:32:27 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57773042.7020806@riseup.net> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57773042.7020806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577735CB.5070408@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 09:08 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/01/2016 06:38 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> then how can we say anything but support for Juan's outspoken vehemence? > > ROTF! Because he won't be satisfied with anything less than perfect > bulletproof cant-bust-em security. It's more about ideological purity than perfection, I think. He says that he _uses nothing_. > That's delusional and I don't pander to people's delusions. I gather that he's calling for a boycott of Tor, based on its origin, design, and funding. But it's not as clear as, for example, boycotts of South Africa or Israel. Many years ago, I recall getting shit from Jewish friends for driving a VW Bug. Designed by Nazis! But this was decades after WWII. So how were Nazis still relevant? > Rr > > From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:56:32 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:56:32 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577732b4.9721c80a.4f04e.163b@mx.google.com> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> <57772960.cf22c80a.e3106.ffffeaf1@mx.google.com> <57772FEA.4020501@riseup.net> <577732b4.9721c80a.4f04e.163b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57773B70.50108@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 09:21 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:07:22 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >> As I said, your reading comprehension sucks. > > No it doesn't. I explained that given the 'context' my > reading is quite valid. Looks like your writing sucks. De gustibus non disputandem ;) >> Or you're just twisting >> shit to pretend that you're right. > > I am right. And you admited that anonimity systems don't work. I did no such thing. >>> So you say that 'anonimity systems' *may eventually* reduce >>> state power, from which it follows that RIGHT NOW, THEY >>> DON'T. And you further acknowledge that such reduction seems >>> like a dream. >>> >>> So you basically conceded my point. I simply reading your >>> allegedly 'general' comment in a way that underscores the >>> fact that tor doesn't work. You're forgetting the "substantially" bit. Tor does reduce state power, now, for many people. Maybe not overall, on a net basis, given how state fascists use it. By "substantially", I mean that anonymity systems might eventually destroy states by undermining taxation. As in Stephenson's _Snow Crash_ or MacArdry's _Last Trumpet Project_. >> It works for many people. > > What a fucktard you are. It's clear again that your writing > skills suck. > > "I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power > substantially. " > > So they don't work They don't yet work substantially, fucktard ;) > "It works for many people." > > So you contadicted yourself. But don' worry. You got it right > the first time. Anonimity systems don't work. > > >> >>> Would *working* anonimity systems reduce state power? Likely >>> yes. Do the current anonimity systems reduce state power? >>> No. Especially tor, a creation of the state. >> >> So you keep saying. > > Because it is correct. > > >> >>>> It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're >>>> apparently saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you? >>> >>> Anonimity systems in general include tor in particular. >> >> Yes, but statements about anonymity systems generally aren't limited >> to Tor. > > > But tor is 'the best'. So if even 'the best' is a failure, then > the rest of systems are going to be even more of a failure. > That's like the A of the ABC of basic logic. The best _right now_ does not mean the best ever. WTF. >>>> But right now, Tor is the best we have. >>> >>> Yeah. You said so a couple of times... >>> >>> >>>> So we use it, with suitable >>>> precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest? >>>> >>> >>> I suggest you stop using the pronoun 'we'. *You* find the >>> 'free' tax-funded pentagon's 'anonimity' network useful and >>> apparently don't care much about the real price of the system. >> >> No, I don't care about the "real price of the system". Why should I? > > > Right. You are a 'nihilist' eh? As long as you can buy dmt it's > OK for the pentagon to fuck as many people as they can. It's not "OK". It's what's so. The Pentagon will use any anonymity system to fuck people. >> And, as I said before, people that you hate would be using any >> effective anonymity system. So you might as well get over it. > > grarpamp replied to that particular piece of bullshit. He's not so rabid about not using Tor, I think. >>> I further suggest that anybody interested in freedom stay >>> away from the pentagon. Doubly so if they are cypherpunk >>> 'anarchists' or sympathetic to the cause. >> >> The Pentagon is everywhere, dude ;) > > > So? It's in your mind ;) From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 1 20:59:29 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:59:29 -0600 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57773C21.5040008@riseup.net> On 07/01/2016 09:14 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 1, 2016 11:22 PM, "Mirimir" wrote: >> >> And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of >> fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, for > example. Even though it was built for the US military. > > Better examples than weapons, my dear... > > https://mic.com/articles/86489/11-incredible-products-that-were-really-invented-by-the-u-s-military#.PYyYcVJRn But I _like_ weapons :) From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 18:01:22 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 22:01:22 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2016 9:40 PM, "Greg Moss" wrote: > > hi hi Cecilia honey. I have been a spending all day and night (haven't left computer for month) reading all your wonderful post and 0ther BS propaganda on this list. I luv you ;-). Err... Hmm... No words... (ô.ô) #blushed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 18:28:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 22:28:16 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:15:15 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > >> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe > >> that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and > >> freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power > >> substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like a dream. > > > > OK. This is the first reasonable and honest thing you said. > > > > You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a > > 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. > > That's fundamentally the cypherpunk dream, I believe. So why do you > bother being on this list, if you think that it's all bullshit? Bullshit is all the tor propaganda you vomited and vomit, fucktard. . And I don't think the cypherpunk dream is to have a fake anonmity network created and run by the pentagon. Unlike you, apparently. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 19:41:18 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 23:41:18 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57772960.cf22c80a.e3106.ffffeaf1@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:55:42 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > Mirimir wrote: > > > >>>> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe > >>>> that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and > >>>> freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state > >>>> power substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like > >>>> a dream. > >>> > > Yore reading comprehension sucks ;) I don't think so. > > Read the fucking paragraph that you quoted. It says nothing about Tor. Dude! Context! The whole discussion was about tor! And at some point you said "I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power substantially" "They" stands for "anonymity systems" which in this 'context' basically means tor. Even more so since you keep repeating that tor is the best system 'we' have. So you say that 'anonimity systems' *may eventually* reduce state power, from which it follows that RIGHT NOW, THEY DON'T. And you further acknowledge that such reduction seems like a dream. So you basically conceded my point. I simply reading your allegedly 'general' comment in a way that underscores the fact that tor doesn't work. Would *working* anonimity systems reduce state power? Likely yes. Do the current anonimity systems reduce state power? No. Especially tor, a creation of the state. > It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're apparently > saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you? Anonimity systems in general include tor in particular. > > But right now, Tor is the best we have. Yeah. You said so a couple of times... > So we use it, with suitable > precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest? > I suggest you stop using the pronoun 'we'. *You* find the 'free' tax-funded pentagon's 'anonimity' network useful and apparently don't care much about the real price of the system. I further suggest that anybody interested in freedom stay away from the pentagon. Doubly so if they are cypherpunk 'anarchists' or sympathetic to the cause. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 20:14:03 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:14:03 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 1, 2016 11:22 PM, "Mirimir" wrote: > > And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of > fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, for example. Even though it was built for the US military. Better examples than weapons, my dear... https://mic.com/articles/86489/11-incredible-products-that-were-really-invented-by-the-u-s-military#.PYyYcVJRn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 632 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 20:21:06 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:21:06 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57772FEA.4020501@riseup.net> References: <604DFEB9-86FC-47E1-A357-C4B05A94479D@johnlgrubbs.net> <5770427b.4b2ac80a.3c626.535b@mx.google.com> <57707307.5090900@riseup.net> <57707c4b.9924c80a.610e4.ffff8628@mx.google.com> <57708A7C.3050100@riseup.net> <57708e78.c120ed0a.22f49.ffffb50d@mx.google.com> <5770962F.7030209@riseup.net> <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <57771841.a828c80a.59cd7.ffffe363@mx.google.com> <57771F1E.2040206@riseup.net> <57772960.cf22c80a.e3106.ffffeaf1@mx.google.com> <57772FEA.4020501@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577732b4.9721c80a.4f04e.163b@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:07:22 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > As I said, your reading comprehension sucks. No it doesn't. I explained that given the 'context' my reading is quite valid. Looks like your writing sucks. > Or you're just twisting > shit to pretend that you're right. I am right. And you admited that anonimity systems don't work. > > > So you say that 'anonimity systems' *may eventually* reduce > > state power, from which it follows that RIGHT NOW, THEY > > DON'T. And you further acknowledge that such reduction seems > > like a dream. > > > > So you basically conceded my point. I simply reading your > > allegedly 'general' comment in a way that underscores the > > fact that tor doesn't work. > > It works for many people. What a fucktard you are. It's clear again that your writing skills suck. "I also believe that they may eventually reduce state power substantially. " So they don't work "It works for many people." So you contadicted yourself. But don' worry. You got it right the first time. Anonimity systems don't work. > > > Would *working* anonimity systems reduce state power? Likely > > yes. Do the current anonimity systems reduce state power? > > No. Especially tor, a creation of the state. > > So you keep saying. Because it is correct. > > >> It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're > >> apparently saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you? > > > > Anonimity systems in general include tor in particular. > > Yes, but statements about anonymity systems generally aren't limited > to Tor. But tor is 'the best'. So if even 'the best' is a failure, then the rest of systems are going to be even more of a failure. That's like the A of the ABC of basic logic. > > >> But right now, Tor is the best we have. > > > > Yeah. You said so a couple of times... > > > > > >> So we use it, with suitable > >> precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest? > >> > > > > I suggest you stop using the pronoun 'we'. *You* find the > > 'free' tax-funded pentagon's 'anonimity' network useful and > > apparently don't care much about the real price of the system. > > No, I don't care about the "real price of the system". Why should I? Right. You are a 'nihilist' eh? As long as you can buy dmt it's OK for the pentagon to fuck as many people as they can. > > And, as I said before, people that you hate would be using any > effective anonymity system. So you might as well get over it. grarpamp replied to that particular piece of bullshit. > > > I further suggest that anybody interested in freedom stay > > away from the pentagon. Doubly so if they are cypherpunk > > 'anarchists' or sympathetic to the cause. > > The Pentagon is everywhere, dude ;) So? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 20:31:28 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:31:28 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57773523.0126c80a.89d81.fffffcd9@mx.google.com> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:14:03 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 1, 2016 11:22 PM, "Mirimir" wrote: > > > > And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of > > fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, > > for > example. Even though it was built for the US military. > > Better examples than weapons, my dear... > > https://mic.com/articles/86489/11-incredible-products-that-were-really-invented-by-the-u-s-military#.PYyYcVJRn What's your point Cecilia? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 20:49:44 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:49:44 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577735CB.5070408@riseup.net> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57773042.7020806@riseup.net> <577735CB.5070408@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5777396b.489d370a.903a8.3f12@mx.google.com> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:32:27 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/01/2016 09:08 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > > > > On 07/01/2016 06:38 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> then how can we say anything but support for Juan's outspoken > >> vehemence? > > > > ROTF! Because he won't be satisfied with anything less than perfect > > bulletproof cant-bust-em security. > > It's more about ideological purity than perfection, It's about common sense and basic decency. > I think. He says > that he _uses nothing_. And I also said that you can use VPNs if you want. So don't twist what I said, ashole. I'd also say that freenet is a better choice for distributing content than tor, for instance. But of course, I make no recommendations. > > > That's delusional and I don't pander to people's delusions. > > I gather that he's calling for a boycott of Tor, based on its origin, > design, and funding. And how well it performs. And its real objectives : to increase even more the power of the US state. But hey, as long as you can get high on dmt, everything is fine. > But it's not as clear as, for example, boycotts > of South Africa or Israel. Many years ago, I recall getting shit from > Jewish friends for driving a VW Bug. Designed by Nazis! But this was > decades after WWII. So how were Nazis still relevant? > > > Rr > > > > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 02:58:40 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 06:58:40 -0300 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> <57773523.0126c80a.89d81.fffffcd9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 2, 2016 12:40 AM, "juan" wrote: > > On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 00:14:03 -0300 > Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > On Jul 1, 2016 11:22 PM, "Mirimir" wrote: > > > > > > And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, for example. Even though it was built for the US military. > > > > Better examples than weapons, my dear... > > > > https://mic.com/articles/86489/11-incredible-products-that-were-really-invented-by-the-u-s-military#.PYyYcVJRn > > > What's your point Cecilia? Nothing really important. I was just saying that you should not consider _only_ US military origins to judge if something is good or not. You can, but should not do it. I was also telling Mirimir that I don't like weapons. Had bad experiences with them. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1338 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 04:37:52 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 08:37:52 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: Zenaan, USA killed great part of my dad's family. They used nuclear weapons to destroy lifes and cities. Japan was already deeply destroied when they decided to test their nuclear bombs. My dad's family used to live in Hiroshima. You know what happened with them. My mom always says it was racism, that US probably would use the bombs in some oriental country or in Africa anyway, because oriental people and black people are always considered inferior people there. They are not Caucasian, they are different physically, they have different ways of being, beliefs, religions, food, etc. Well, the problem is not North American prejudice, but all the prejudices. All the people have difficulties to understand, to accept and to respect differences, to manage their personal references. USA and Germany used the war as an excuse to test their new toys playing with human lifes. Japan, Italy, England, France, all the other countries didn't do the same just because they had not 'new toys' or they probably had played with them in a cruel way too. The problem was not the country, but all the wars. There are lots of good people in all the countries, in all the places. A country is not a villain or the good guy, Zenaan. Russia is not better than USA. They are different countries and have different backgrounds. Both deserves respect. It would not be rational to hate USA for killing my family. Lots of people there also lost their families in that stupid and cruel war. I need to hate all the wars,governments, bad people, cruelty and lies, not USA. (Certainly, mosquitos too. Maybe also Vegemite.) Take care, everybody! Have a lovely weekend and lots of love and fun! <3 Ceci [OT] My mom's family is Shinto. You can imagine my mom's extreme happiness when, some years ago, I told her about my North American Jew boyfriend, haha!! ;D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1990 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 16:10:29 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 09:10:29 +1000 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Land of the free. Home of the brave. All hail America. ----- Forwarded message from "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" ----- >From "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" Fri Jul 6 02:40:09 2018 To: pfir-list at pfir.org From: "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2016 15:17:20 -0700 Off-Topic TSA Thugs: TSA Agents BEAT AND JAIL Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/01/tsa-agents-beat-and-jail-disabled-teen-with-brain-cancer-video/ ⌐Hannah, who is also partially deaf and blind in one eye set ⌐ off a metal detector while passing through security. They ⌐ wanted to do further scanning, she was reluctant, she didn't ⌐ understand what they were about to do," Shirley told WREG. ⌐ "She's trying to get away from them but in the next instant, ⌐ one of them had her down on the ground and hit her head on the ⌐ floor. There was blood everywhere." Hannah was arrested sent ⌐ to "Jail East," though authorities eventually threw out the ⌐ charges. - - - Her Mother says they have made this trip to and from St. Jude many times, but this is the first time her daughter was assaulted by TSA. She also says TSA kept her away from her daughter so there was no way to explain to her what these [criminal thugs - my words] wanted. ----- End forwarded message ----- From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 18:00:05 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:00:05 +1000 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 09:26:39PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 1, 2016 8:21 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > > > Land of the free. Home of the brave. > > > > All hail America. > > Zenaan, my dear, your country serves Vegemite to children. It's a pretty > serious crime against humanity and it occurs daily, in all Australian > schools. Guilty as charged dear Cecilia. > It has lots of sodium, a disgusting flavour and stinks more than my > disastrous homemade Sauerkraut. Am I saying "Hail Australia", Land of > Vegemite and Home of Crocodilo Dundee? :-) Well, you just did - Yay Crocodilo PONIES!!!! :D > This crime was horrible, really shocking and sad, but the point is > recognizing publicly the existence of a repulsive crime and never more > permiss that something similar occurs in the whole world, not just > criticizing a country. Sorry, it doesn't make sense. 1) The number of crimes being committed by American govt and its organs (CIA, NSA, five eyes, FBI, private corporations running their jails, their diplomats, their banking cartels, their MIC, their corporations, their "rendition", their illegal unlawful unethical prison jurisdictions, their ...) is almost beyond belief. The hegemon "America" is out of control and perpetrating evil on a scale the world finds difficult to even grasp, and regular Americans seem to be in a lot of denial about the depth, breadth, intensity and persistence through time of the wrongs their government continues to perpetrate in their name. 2) Blindness to the problems, or doing nothing to fix the problems, is called acquiescence, and is also called tacit consent - i.e. Americans who are not opposing their government, are by default (tacitly) consenting to the evil perpetrated in their name. > I do love my country, but it never will be a blind stupid love. There are > lots of disgusting crimes here and also in your country, in the USA, in > Russia, in the whole world. No exceptions. I am in vigorous and persistent proclamation of the evils being perpetrated by the idiots in my Australian government. I continue to participate, decade in and out, in grass roots groups who make steps to fix some of these problems. As best as I am capable. Many Aussies I've come across are very complacent, comfortable and to be honest, apathetic. We are such a young country, immature in many ways from "ooh you're not yet 18 you mustn't touch a drop of alcohol, even though we know this leads to Aussies being some of the greatest binge drinkers in the world" to our population-wide immaturity around relationships and sexuality (second only to America it seems), to our bloody idiot politicians like Tony Abbot (previous prime minister) publicly saying he will "shirt front" (bounce his chest against, in order to topple over) the Russian president Putin (yes it wouldn't really happen, but shit, how firetrucking immature can we Aussies be? We're a bloody embarrassment to the world!!!) We Australians "punch way above our weight category" on an international level, in many forums - mostly sport, but also science and computing and business, and we have a steady parade of actors who make it to Hollywood. We can be rightfully proud of our limited cultural, scientific and humanitarian achievements and I don't deny this to my fellow Australians. Yet the reality is, we can do SO much better, and we have many problems, and evils being perpetrated and perpetuated in our name, which we absolutely MUST fix up/ stop! Australians need to grow the f!#$ up! > The USA are not my favorite country, but it was not a regional problem. > Violent crimes happen in every single country of this world, including > Russia. Please, remember it. I agree. But the USA government is most definitely not a regional problem. It is a military, financial and political hegemon. And it is perpetrating murder, democratic goverment overthrows, coups, war, torture, "cultural export", and basically worldwide thuggery in the name of some bullshit ideology of "democracy". This is a very great evil, being done by America, and supported by many Western countries such as Australia, Germany, France, the UK and plenty of other me-toos. We must not fail to do everything we can to name the World's Greatest Problem today, to educate people about this problem, and to work towards something less problematic. THIS is why I will never let up on America - not until they stop murdering and torturing and overthrowing peoples all around the world, in the name of "Democracy" or whatever the firetruck ideology they want to pretend to be "promoting" with these techniques (murder, torture, overthrow, etc). > Ah, for your knowledge, I hate all the governments, including Russian. No > exceptions here too. As Mirimir, I love Russian people, but it is too much > innocence believing that Russian government is better than North-American > government. Both are disgusting. At the moment, the consequences are quite different. I am confident, seeing the actions of current Russian govt lead by Putin, so much restraint in the face of so much Western provocations, for so many years, that Putin will continue to cause Russia to act conservatively and towards a multi polar (politically) world. He will win the next election, his popularity guarantees that, which means another 7 to 8 years for him, and for the world for which I am very greatful. Next Russian president, of course I cannot predict. But Putin, yes I can confidently continue to predict, as his personal record is unimpeachable - every country could be extremely proud. I really really hope that the next Russian president after Putin (in about 7 years time from now) will reach at least half the standard of Putin in leading Russia. Remember, the 10 to 15% of Russians who disapprove of Putin, think he is much too soft against the West's provocations... this is a very serious point. Soros and the Neocons wanted to provoke significant reactions from Russia, and they did not get it, so they have no excuse to raise WWII (not yet anyway) - how can I be anything other than EXTEREMELY grateful to Putin and those in the current Russian parliament who support him? We should all be grateful for the current situation in Russia - there is absolutely no comparison to America's actions on the international stage, AT this point in time in history. I hope my passionate reply is ok :) Cecilia, thank you so very much for your speaking from your heart. You do speak important truth which I support. It is very good for us to focus on the love that individual humans bring to this world. I hope that more and more love can go into actions which bring the governments of the world into more alignment with what is good and healing for this world and its people. I think we share very similar hopes for the future... Have a wonderful day, Zenaan From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 18:38:44 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:38:44 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> References: <57709a1b.c94a370a.959b3.ffff9730@mx.google.com> <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> > > You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a > > 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. > > That's fundamentally the cypherpunk dream, I believe. So why do you > bother being on this list, if you think that it's all bullshit? I think his key point here is that we must not be in self delusion. It is ok to dream. Cypherpunk dream is a great dream. A dream of freedom, hope, for everyone. But when we are in a denial of a particular problem, or speaking as though a particular limitation does not exist, or a particular piece of software provides some guarantee which it does NOT provide - then not only are we deluding ourselves, but (and I see this as a pain for Juan) we are leading others astray. This is why over and over, when the facts don't support an assumption, especially when that assumption could endanger life and or liberty of someone trying to do some good (e.g. a whistleblower), then how can we say anything but support for Juan's outspoken vehemence? Juan says "I will not compromise the safety of a fellow fighter no matter what", and he sacrifices the appearance of civility to try to achieve this - to try to support our brothers who want to fight, who want to whistleblow, who want to undermine the murderers in our world. Leading potential fighters astray in their thinking is essentially unforgiveable - which is why I am bound by my own conscience to always say "Juan, thank you! So few speak up as much as you do, for those who genuinely need someone to speak up for them!" How can we let down our brothers so much? Yes, speak our dreams, our hopes! But do so honestly! "Positive thinking" is not about deceiving ourselves or those who read our proclamations on crypto anarchist software. And in fact it's quite the opposite as I hope is clear by now - let's get off the hippy flower power "positive speaking will magically manifest secure anonymising software" bullshit bandwagon, and speak bluntly, plainly, and clearly so onlookers are NEVER deceived! Surely this is the LEAST we can do for our potential future brothers in punk land?! From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 18:42:04 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:42:04 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> References: <5770A80B.1080608@riseup.net> <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160702014204.GF5207@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 02, 2016 at 11:38:44AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > You finally acknowledge that all your bullshit is a > > > 'dream' - it's not reality and not true. > > > > That's fundamentally the cypherpunk dream, I believe. So why do you > > bother being on this list, if you think that it's all bullshit? > > I think his key point here is that we must not be in self delusion. > > It is ok to dream. Cypherpunk dream is a great dream. A dream of > freedom, hope, for everyone. > > But when we are in a denial of a particular problem, or speaking as > though a particular limitation does not exist, or a particular piece of > software provides some guarantee which it does NOT provide - then not > only are we deluding ourselves, but (and I see this as a pain for Juan) > we are leading others astray. > > This is why over and over, when the facts don't support an assumption, > especially when that assumption could endanger life and or liberty of > someone trying to do some good (e.g. a whistleblower), then how can we > say anything but support for Juan's outspoken vehemence? > > Juan says "I will not compromise the safety of a fellow fighter no > matter what", and he sacrifices the appearance of civility to try to > achieve this - to try to support our brothers who want to fight, who > want to whistleblow, who want to undermine the murderers in our world. > > Leading potential fighters astray in their thinking is essentially > unforgiveable Because there are SO FEW REAL FIGHTERS FOR FREEDOM!!! We absolutely MUST do everything we can to support those who may tentatively try to make SOME stand in this world for truth, for transparency, and against evil! > - which is why I am bound by my own conscience to always > say "Juan, thank you! So few speak up as much as you do, for those who > genuinely need someone to speak up for them!" > > How can we let down our brothers so much? > > Yes, speak our dreams, our hopes! But do so honestly! > > "Positive thinking" is not about deceiving ourselves or those who read > our proclamations on crypto anarchist software. And in fact it's quite > the opposite as I hope is clear by now - let's get off the hippy flower > power "positive speaking will magically manifest secure anonymising > software" bullshit bandwagon, and speak bluntly, plainly, and clearly so > onlookers are NEVER deceived! > > Surely this is the LEAST we can do for our potential future brothers in > punk land?! -- Free Australia: www.UPMART.org Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly warranted. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 19:32:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 12:32:57 +1000 Subject: using gnupg with mutt Message-ID: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> Does anyone know how to have an automatic association between a pgp public key and a 'specified by me' email address? As in, some people create gpg keys which do not include their email address, and I would have thought it trivial for me, in my own keyring, to associate a public key I have received, with one or more email addresses of my choosing (and / or the person's name, as fair as I know the name etc). gpg --edit-key HASH brings up a prompt, and help gives things like trust and list, and there is a "notation" sub command which sounds perfect for the job, but can only operate on private keys, not public keys. This all does not make sense to me. When someone sends me an email, signed with their private key, and I get a copy of their public key, I should be able to associate their public key, with their email address, even if their own signing of their pub/sub public key does not include that particular (or any) email address. What gives? TIA From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 1 19:51:08 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 12:51:08 +1000 Subject: Wikileaks is the Endgame In-Reply-To: <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> References: <5770ba03.c469370a.f2f5f.ffffa595@mx.google.com> <5770C89D.4050208@riseup.net> <5772d036.2839ed0a.a7c2e.ffffcef5@mx.google.com> <577314E9.80400@riseup.net> <577458b3.c469370a.95c6d.1dfa@mx.google.com> <57747838.6030702@riseup.net> <5776c405.5623ed0a.6d72d.ffffcb0b@mx.google.com> <577715A3.4000807@riseup.net> <20160702013844.GE5207@x220-a02> <57772343.5060304@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160702025108.GL5207@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 08:13:23PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/01/2016 07:38 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > "Positive thinking" is not about deceiving ourselves or those who read > > our proclamations on crypto anarchist software. And in fact it's quite > > the opposite as I hope is clear by now - let's get off the hippy flower > > power "positive speaking will magically manifest secure anonymising > > software" bullshit bandwagon, and speak bluntly, plainly, and clearly so > > onlookers are NEVER deceived! > > I'm not about positive thinking, but rather about working with what's > available. And that includes Tor, even if it's primarily a tool of > fascist oppression. The Colt M1911A1 is one of my favorite weapons, for > example. Even though it was built for the US military. I agree with that. Juan is very conservative when it comes to saying a particular piece of software is useful for something. That conservatism is a healthy thing. We should emulate that conservatism (if not his particular style :) > > Surely this is the LEAST we can do for our potential future brothers in > > punk land?! > > From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 2 04:47:19 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 14:47:19 +0300 Subject: using gnupg with mutt In-Reply-To: <577730D8.6090606@riseup.net> References: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> <577730D8.6090606@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160702114719.GA754@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 08:11:20PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > Waiting for Juan to tell us how compromised gpg is and that you're a fed > if you question his (snigger) authority. > ===== https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2003-November/020570.html Thu Nov 27 09:29:51 CET 2003 GnuPG's ElGamal signing keys compromised Phong Nguyen identified a severe bug in the way GnuPG creates and uses ElGamal keys for signing. This is a significant security failure which can lead to a compromise of almost all ElGamal keys used for signing. Note that this is a real world vulnerability which will reveal your private key within a few seconds. ====== Do you mean to see more like this from gpg? IIRC gpg used small number, to save picoseconds in computations and the attack fucked them with lattice reduction in nanoseconds... Not to mention the compatibility with pgp 0.0001, which makes keyid collisions trivial (the ubuntu comrades suffered from this few times). From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 12:09:00 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 15:09:00 -0400 Subject: Tor... patented? Message-ID: For readers, since it was missing from the reply... The main patent of relavence as requested, and subsequently relegated via reply to 2) above... 6266704 Onion Routing Network For Securely Moving Data Through Communication Networks http://pimg-fpiw.uspto.gov/fdd/04/667/062/0.pdf http://www.google.com/patents/US6266704 http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6266704.PN.&OS=PN/6266704&RS=PN/6266704 Many interesting references... https://www.google.com/search?q=patent+6266704 http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=6266704&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PTXT From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 12:23:54 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 15:23:54 -0400 Subject: Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys Message-ID: http://bits-please.blogspot.fr/2016/06/extracting-qualcomms-keymaster-keys.html https://github.com/laginimaineb/ExtractKeyMaster https://github.com/laginimaineb/android_fde_bruteforce https://github.com/laginimaineb?tab=repositories In this blog post, I'll demonstrate how TrustZone kernel code-execution can be used to effectively break Android's Full Disk Encryption (FDE) scheme. We'll also see some of the inherent issues stemming from the design of Android's FDE scheme, even without any TrustZone vulnerability. A couple of months ago the highly-publicised case of Apple vs. FBI brought attention to the topic of privacy - especially in the context of mobile devices... Full disk encryption is used world-wide, and can sometimes be instrumental to ensuring the privacy of people's most intimate pieces of information. As we've seen, the current encryption scheme... can be hacked by an adversary or even broken by the OEMs... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 12:10:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 16:10:26 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 08:37:52 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > The problem was not the country, but all the wars. There are lots of > good people in all the countries, in all the places. A country is > not a villain or the good guy, Zenaan. Russia is not better than > USA. They are different countries and have different backgrounds. > Both deserves respect. No country deserves respect and some countries are way more despicable than others. US ranks first. It's funny. You got the american treatment in the tor mailing list. You saw what kind of garbage the boyces and the quinns posted here. And you are still making excuses for "the land of the free"? Something is very wrong. > > It would not be rational to hate USA for killing my family. "a 2015 Pew Research Center survey finds that the share of Americans who believe the use of nuclear weapons was justified is now 56%, with 34% saying it was not. " > Lots of > people there also lost their families in that stupid and cruel war. >I need to hate all the wars,governments, bad people, cruelty and > lies, not USA. > > (Certainly, mosquitos too. Maybe also Vegemite.) > > Take care, everybody! Have a lovely weekend and lots of love and > fun! <3 > > Ceci > > [OT] My mom's family is Shinto. You can imagine my mom's extreme > happiness when, some years ago, I told her about my North American Jew > boyfriend, haha!! ;D From skquinn at rushpost.com Sat Jul 2 15:37:52 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2016 17:37:52 -0500 Subject: Tor... patented? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1467499072.17622.1.camel@moonpatrol> On Sat, 2016-07-02 at 15:09 -0400, grarpamp wrote: > For readers, since it was missing from the reply... > The main patent of relavence as requested, and > subsequently relegated via reply to 2) above... > http://www.google.com/patents/US6266704 "Sep 10, 2013 FP Expired due to failure to pay maintenance fee Effective date: 20130724" It was assigned to the US Navy, which never asserted any claims of infringement for Tor (or as far as I know, any other similar technologies). -- Shawn K. Quinn From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 16:00:07 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:00:07 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 2, 2016 4:16 PM, "juan" wrote: > > No country deserves respect and some countries are way more despicable than others. US ranks first. I love countries and their cultures, my dear. Unhappily, there are frontiers among all the countries. > It's funny. You got the american treatment in the tor mailing list. You saw what kind of garbage the boyces and the quinns posted here. And you are still making excuses for "the land of the free"? > > Something is very wrong. I admiss I didn't like Boyce, Dani Moth, Quinn and Ted's messages, but I am not "making excuses" for their country, Juan. Ted was the most aggressive of all and I think he was talking only about Zenaan and you, but he seems _a lot_ the kind of guy who shoots in someone's head saying that some people "deserves" it for being different. I was really shocked after reading his messages. Boyce's act of banning was disgusting, but what really upset me was the "rape apology" stuff. It was completely unnecessary and pretty sick knowing my past and details of my present. But, well, everybody knows his ego is much bigger than his intelligence. He is an intelligent guy, but is very pretentious. It always was usual inside Tor Project core team. He follows their patterns. In that occasion, I admiss I hoped sincerely that Boyce and Dani Moth were raped twice each one, because only a person who _really_ was raped can be completely sure that making "rape apology" always will be impossible for me. I love sex. Rape is not sex, it is violence, fury, torture. It's dark. It is to feel a dark and deep fear of death. Usually, I don't feel fear of death. It is the only certainty in this uncertain life. I swear I felt the same desperate fear of death when I was raped. Nobody deserves to feel this kind of despair. I was angry in that occasion and I sincerely apologize for wishing something so cruel for Boyce and Dani. I regret it a lot and ask pardon for being like them. It is not correct at all. Quinn is intolerant and has narrow patterns of decency, but he is a good person and I like him, Juan. You are not exactly tolerant and open-minded too, haha!! ;D > > [Cecilia] It would not be rational to hate USA for killing my family. > > "a 2015 Pew Research Center survey finds that the share of Americans who believe the use of nuclear weapons was justified is now 56%, with 34% saying it was not. " Sorry, I don't believe in all researches because I have lots of researchers as friends and colleagues and I was a researcher in several moments of my life too, my dear Juan. And you know, I am terribly hard headed like you, haha!! ;D http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-reason-america-used-nuclear-weapons-against-japan-it-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192 It was a political decision, not military, Juan. In all the countries, in all the places, the problem is the government, not the people. Few stupid and cruel politicians killed my family, not the North American people. There are lots of infinitely sad ghosts stories in Hiroshima. Shadows and eternal crying... I sincerely hope these sad ghosts haunt all the cruel politicians who decided to play with human lives. My migraine is still killing me and my mood is really bad. I don't like drugs, but tried a lots of medicines for pain in last days. My hard head and I think they didn't work, haha!! ;D I bet you will feel envy now, Juan. Coconut ice cream and sweet corn ice cream, nom nom... Trying usual food will be a disaster. Ice cream is a good choice when feeling sick. My mood will be better soon, hihi... <3 I was thinking about lemon and ginger popsicles, much better for sickness, but they had only creamy ice creams now. So, I will make tea. Hot and cold together, hihi... <3 You are a good person, my dear Juan. I was wrong about Razer and you being a couple in love. Now I hope you, Razer and Mirimir can make a lovely ménage à trois and being happy forever, hahaha!!! ;D Nope, I am sick and you are too far to kick my butt like a soccer ball... and Messi is not playing anymore, hahaha!! ;D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4711 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Sat Jul 2 17:02:25 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:02:25 -0400 Subject: using gnupg with mutt In-Reply-To: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> References: <20160702023257.GH5207@x220-a02> Message-ID: <4F6B64DB-2D07-47D7-AE4B-4B3F3C5232C2@synfin.org> > On Jul 1, 2016, at 10:32 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Does anyone know how to have an automatic association between a pgp > public key and a 'specified by me' email address? > > As in, some people create gpg keys which do not include their email > address, and I would have thought it trivial for me, in my own keyring, > to associate a public key I have received, with one or more email > addresses of my choosing (and / or the person's name, as fair as I know > the name etc). > > gpg --edit-key HASH > brings up a prompt, and help gives things like trust and list, and there > is a "notation" sub command which sounds perfect for the job, but can > only operate on private keys, not public keys. > > This all does not make sense to me. When someone sends me an email, > signed with their private key, and I get a copy of their public key, I > should be able to associate their public key, with their email address, > even if their own signing of their pub/sub public key does not include > that particular (or any) email address. > > What gives? > > TIA In the case of someone not including their email address in their key, you will probably need to just save the message to a file, pop into the shell, and verify manually... which I realize isn't what you're looking for! I'll poke around my mutt config when I get to a real computer, seems maybe you could play with the pgp_verify_command (setting is something like that..), although mutt+gpg always a little fragile IME (although def works).... -- John From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 18:10:18 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 21:10:18 -0400 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> Message-ID: > http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/01/tsa-agents-beat-and-jail-disabled-teen-with-brain-cancer-video/ > > Hannah, who is also partially deaf and blind in one eye set > off a metal detector while passing through security. They > wanted to do further scanning, she was reluctant, she didn't > understand what they were about to do," Shirley told WREG. > "She's trying to get away from them but in the next instant, > one of them had her down on the ground and hit her head on the > floor. There was blood everywhere." Hannah was arrested sent > to "Jail East," though authorities eventually threw out the > charges. Citizens probably not going to like this TSA story much if the actual video comes out and it's not a clean situation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3osmhlMB-Q Other opinions... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXbHzaCRZNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG_e7kZL4Wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkX7qE_wHD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEZiLiuBU0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLH2S9Fx5ak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqWOd-ldqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hB5ROWdw4Q Facts and Ficus, The Freedom Is Good To Go... From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 19:31:15 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 02:31:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Report: US crypto regulation... flawed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1796784852.979898.1467513075666.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: grarpamp Subject: Report: US crypto regulation... flawed https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/government-encryption-regulation-report-criticism https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Going-Dark-Going-Forward.pdf >US Republican congressional staff trying to find a middle ground on >encryption have said previous efforts to regulate privacy technology >were flawed and that lawmakers need to learn more about technology >before trying to regulate it, according to a report released on >Wednesday. On the one hand, I can't disagree.  However, government is so far behind in actually understanding technology, what is described here is a truly hopeless task.                Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2795 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Sun Jul 3 09:44:32 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 09:44:32 -0700 Subject: Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79c9f6c8b2fa7c9da43d62e2c255c059@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > break Android's Full Disk Encryption > But muh dick pics! Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 11:45:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 14:45:55 -0400 Subject: DHS et al: Mass Transit Audio Spies Message-ID: http://www.csoonline.com/article/3090502/security/big-brother-is-listening-as-well-as-watching.html From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 12:02:38 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 16:02:38 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 20:00:07 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 2, 2016 4:16 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > No country deserves respect and some countries are way more > despicable than others. US ranks first. > > I love countries and their cultures, my dear. Unhappily, there are > frontiers among all the countries. And yet you can't have countries if you don't have murdering governments and the borders they create. Countries can only exist when you have borders between them. And the pro government assholes, of course. > > I admiss I didn't like Boyce, Dani Moth, Quinn and Ted's messages, > but I am not "making excuses" for their country, Juan. You aren't? But a country like the US wouldn't exist without scumbags like the ted smiths, boyces, quinns, that psycho steven, the syversons and his lapdogs. > Quinn is intolerant and has narrow patterns of decency, but he is a > good person and I like him, Juan. You are seriously fucked up then. Did you actually understand what the scumbag was proposing? I'll assume the answer is "yes". > You are not exactly tolerant and > open-minded too, haha!! ;D That comes from you, who support the US nazis? Ha ha. > > > > [Cecilia] It would not be rational to hate USA for killing my > > > family. > > > > "a 2015 Pew Research Center survey finds that the share of > Americans who believe the use of nuclear weapons was justified is now > 56%, with 34% saying it was not. " > > Sorry, I don't believe in all researches because I have lots of > researchers as friends and colleagues and I was a researcher in > several moments of my life too So? You know they are all dishonest, including yourself? From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 17:16:07 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:16:07 -0700 Subject: DHS et al: Mass Transit Audio Spies Message-ID: > Those who have nothing to say, have nothing to fear. > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM, grarpamp > wrote: > > http://www.csoonline.com/article/3090502/security/big-brother-is-listening-as-well-as-watching.html > > https://audiofingerprint.openwpm.com/ This page tests browser-fingerprinting using the AudioContext and Canvas API. Using the AudioContext API to fingerprint does not collect sound played or recorded by your machine - an AudioContext fingerprint is a property of your machine's audio stack itself. If you choose to see your fingerprint, we will collect the fingerprint along with a randomly assigned identifier, your IP Address, and your User-Agent and store it in a private database so that we can analyze the effectiveness of the technique. We will not release the raw data publicly. A cookie will be set in your browser to help in our analysis. We also test a form of fingerprinting using Flash if you have Flash enabled. This page is a part of Princeton CITP's Web Transparency and Accountability Project. For questions or concerns email dreisman at princeton.edu and ste at cs.princeton.edu From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 17:16:07 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:16:07 -0700 Subject: DHS et al: Mass Transit Audio Spies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those who have nothing to say, have nothing to fear. On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 11:45 AM, grarpamp wrote: > > http://www.csoonline.com/article/3090502/security/big-brother-is-listening-as-well-as-watching.html > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 668 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 13:59:37 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:59:37 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 4:06 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > [Cecilia] I admiss I didn't like Boyce, Dani Moth, Quinn and Ted's messages, but I am not "making excuses" for their country, Juan. > > You aren't? But a country like the US wouldn't exist without scumbags like the ted smiths, boyces, quinns, that psycho steven, the syversons and his lapdogs. Juan, my dear, US already have lots of people making excuses for them and being well paid for it. Don't worry, I won't waste my time with it. I simply told you what I think about countries, governments and people. The same way there are lots of awesome persons in all the countries, there are lots of bad persons ("scumbags"?) in all the countries too. (Sorry, I still don't know exactly what "scumbag" means, because there are several bizarre definitions in Brazilian posts ("gentalha"? wtf?), but probably there are lots of scumbags in all the places, haha!!) > > [Cecilia] Quinn is intolerant and has narrow patterns of decency, but he is a good person and I like him, Juan. > > You are seriously fucked up then. Well, I am sure Quinn thinks exactly the same thing all the times when I say I like you in public, my dear Juan... hihi... ;) > > [Cecilia] You are not exactly tolerant and open-minded too, haha!! ;D > > That comes from you, who support the US nazis? Ha ha. I never said that I am tolerant and open-minded, Juan. Sorry if you felt offended with my words. I don't support any kind of 'nazis'. Radical people are extremely boring. > > [Cecilia] Sorry, I don't believe in all researches because I have lots of researchers as friends and colleagues and I was a researcher in several moments of my life too > > So? You know they are all dishonest, including yourself? Hmm... Sorry, after talking about deaths, wars and rapes, I confess I was thinking only in Portuguese. Always is the most comfortable language for me. Pardon, reading now what wrote yesterday, there are more mistakes and I didn't write some words when talking about the rapes. Both made me feel the same way, the same deep panic of death, the same smell of fear. Sorry for it. "Eu não acredito em todas as pesquisas" here doesn't mean necessarily that I really do _not_ believe in _all_ researches. If I really wouldn't believe in all researches, in Portuguese, I would use 'double negative', what doesn't exist in English, sorry. I would say "Eu não acredito em nenhuma pesquisa", Juan. I simply translated - literally - what I thought in that moment and doesn't make sense in English, sorry. I was trying to say that not necessarily I believe in all researches, that I don't believe in some of them... Does it sound better now or should I try again? :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 14:04:13 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:04:13 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> Message-ID: On Jun 28, 2016 5:26 AM, "Tom" wrote: > > Today is the best times of all. Todays poorest people are rich compared to poor people a couple of centuries ago. > > So, I don't need to believe, I know it's getting better. Even if local situations might be worsen here and there, this doen't matter that much for the species as a whole. Hi, Tom! A friend of mine really appreciated this book a lot: http://www.diamandis.com/abundance I think you can like it too. Good reading! :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 670 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 15:28:05 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:28:05 -0400 Subject: Journalists Fucked... by FBI, and by Themselves (via Appelbaum at CIJ Berlin) Message-ID: https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/leaked-fbi-documents-reveal-secret-rules-spying-journalists-national-security-letters The leaked rules The Intercept has published give us a revealing and startling look at how the FBI can conduct surveillance of journalists in complete secrecy and with no court oversight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJValv4YQcY I understand you think me your political enemy... From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 15:32:29 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:32:29 -0400 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Another small demonstration and win to go with videos of same... http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/03/tobey.pdf http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/112230.P.pdf From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 15:39:43 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:39:43 -0400 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> Message-ID: https://www.google.com/search?q=aaron+tobey From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 3 19:35:00 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 19:35:00 -0700 Subject: Journalists Fucked... by FBI, and by Themselves (via Appelbaum at CIJ Berlin) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5779CB54.5020006@riseup.net> On 07/03/2016 03:28 PM, grarpamp wrote: > https://freedom.press/blog/2016/06/leaked-fbi-documents-reveal-secret-rules-spying-journalists-national-security-letters > > The leaked rules The Intercept has published give us a revealing and > startling look at how the FBI can conduct surveillance of journalists > in complete secrecy and with no court oversight. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJValv4YQcY > > I understand you think me your political enemy... > It's easy when you pwn the biggest names in journalism "We look forward to a successful relationship with the CIA" —Amazon.com press statement November 2013. The company was founded, and majority interest is held by Jeff Bezos… Bezos now owns Washington Post See: Carl Bernstein, THE CIA and the Media (Bernstein on the CIA's "Operation Mockingbird" subversion of some of the most trusted names in US 1950s Journalism) and more up to today's fraudulent news media at my Tumblr tag: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/operation+mockingbird Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 15:43:34 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 19:43:34 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:59:37 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > [Cecilia] Quinn is intolerant and has narrow patterns of > > > decency, but > he is a good person and I like him, Juan. > > > > You are seriously fucked up then. > > Well, I am sure Quinn thinks exactly the same thing all the times > when I say I like you in public, my dear Juan... hihi... ;) You are digging yourself deeper =) My position is radically different to that of quinn and his mob and yet you think we are both 'likeable'? Your opinions here are absurd. Not to mention, again, that you think that a totalitarian piece of shit like quinn is a good guy. Since you believe that, your moral judgements are a bad joke...which shows what you really stand for. > > > > [Cecilia] You are not exactly tolerant and open-minded too, > > > haha!! ;D > > > > That comes from you, who support the US nazis? Ha ha. > > I never said that I am tolerant and open-minded, Juan. Fine. I'm not tolerant either. I don't tolerate stupidity and evil intentions or acts. As to being 'open minded', again, I'm certainly not open minded to stupidity. Being 'open minded' to stupidity is hardly a virtue. > Sorry if you > felt offended with my words. I don't support any kind of 'nazis'. > Radical people are extremely boring. Not sure who you are calling radical? The nazis? The problem with the nazis were not that they were radicals. Or that they were 'boring'... > > > > [Cecilia] Sorry, I don't believe in all researches because I > > > have > lots of researchers as friends and colleagues and I was a researcher > in several moments of my life too > > > > So? You know they are all dishonest, including yourself? > > > "Eu não acredito em todas as pesquisas" here doesn't mean necessarily > that I really do _not_ believe in _all_ researches. If I really > wouldn't believe in all researches, in Portuguese, I would use > 'double negative', what doesn't exist in English, sorry. I would say > "Eu não acredito em nenhuma pesquisa", Juan. I simply translated - > literally - what I thought in that moment and doesn't make sense in > English, sorry. I don't think your explanation changes anything. You want to ignore this particular poll because it doesn't paint the americunts in a good light. But the poll is completely consistent with americunt 'culture'. If anything the real numbers are prolly higher. > > I was trying to say that not necessarily I believe in all researches, > that I don't believe in some of them... Does it sound better now or > should I try again? :P No need. You won't get anywhere =) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 16:13:22 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:13:22 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> Message-ID: <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 18:04:13 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jun 28, 2016 5:26 AM, "Tom" wrote: > > > > Today is the best times of all. Todays poorest people are rich > > compared > to poor people a couple of centuries ago. > > > > So, I don't need to believe, I know it's getting better. Even if > > local > situations might be worsen here and there, this doen't matter that > much for the species as a whole. > > Hi, Tom! A friend of mine really appreciated this book a lot: > > http://www.diamandis.com/abundance > > I think you can like it too. Good reading! :-) american fascist propaganda endorsed by clinton, wsj, the 'economist' and a bunch of other high ranking pieces of shit. Congrats Cecilia. "Today is the best times of all" Yep. Now that the americunt global police state is almost fully functional. Finally the democrats can drone the enemies of humanity with the push of a button. We all should praise american science. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 16:13:44 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:13:44 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 7:42 PM, "grarpamp" wrote: > > Another small demonstration and win to go with videos of same... > http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2011/03/tobey.pdf > http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/Opinions/Published/112230.P.pdf Being sincere, my dear grarpamp, I didn't have courage enough to see the videos that you sent yesterday yet. Yesterday, I was pretty sensitive to sounds and it was a day without music because of my migraine. Today, I confess I had no courage to see videos after reading Lauren's post. I hate violence and injustice and my stomach is pretty weak in some moments. I sent your last message to Lauren and I am copying him in this message, because he can consider interesting your new references and I do love and respect him a lot. Sorry, instead reading about that disgusting crime, today I will finish a book ("When Breath Becomes Air" by Paul Kalanithi; amazing book, but terribly sad!) and cook some comfortable food, because I am still feeling pain... :(((( Tender kisses, thanks for your links!!! <3 Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 16:46:26 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:46:26 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 8:18 PM, "juan" wrote: > > american fascist propaganda endorsed by clinton, wsj, the 'economist' and a bunch of other high ranking pieces of shit. > > Congrats Cecilia. > > "Today is the best times of all" > > Yep. Now that the americunt global police state is almost fully functional. Finally the democrats can drone the enemies of humanity with the push of a button. We all should praise american science. My dear Juan, Please, consider seriously to have some sex or masturbation or, at least, eat carbohydrates like a crazy. You do need serotonin and endorphins with urgence!!! :P God, my mood is horrible, but you are becoming a 'mal amado', very bitter and much grumpier than me! :P Please, search for 'mal amado' and 'mimimi'. It's Brazilian slang and I don't know how to translate these expressions, but they mean you need some love urgently and that you don't stop complaining about everything! :((( I love science. All sciences, not just "American science". And I love books much more than you can imagine. Much more, I swear. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 17:02:36 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 21:02:36 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5779a726.3224ed0a.c2c75.ffffadce@mx.google.com> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:46:26 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 3, 2016 8:18 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > american fascist propaganda endorsed by clinton, wsj, the > 'economist' and a bunch of other high ranking pieces of shit. > > > > Congrats Cecilia. > > > > "Today is the best times of all" > > > > Yep. Now that the americunt global police state is almost > > fully > functional. Finally the democrats can drone the enemies of humanity > with the push of a button. We all should praise american science. > > My dear Juan, > > Please, consider seriously to have some sex or masturbation or, at > least, eat carbohydrates like a crazy. You do need serotonin and > endorphins with urgence!!! :P OK Cecilia. You've finally proven that you are fucking retard. A fucking retard who whether as unpaid hobby, or not, parrots establishment propaganda. Get a fucking clue. Or stop playing dumb. > > God, my mood is horrible, but you are becoming a 'mal amado', very > bitter and much grumpier than me! :P > > Please, search for 'mal amado' and 'mimimi'. It's Brazilian slang > and I don't know how to translate these expressions, but they mean > you need some love urgently and that you don't stop complaining about > everything! :((( > > I love science. All sciences, not just "American science". And I > love books much more than you can imagine. Much more, I swear. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 17:50:41 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 21:50:41 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 7:51 PM, "juan" wrote: > > My position is radically different to that of quinn and his mob and yet you think we are both 'likeable'? Your opinions here are absurd. Juan, you and Quinn are not my friends, but I appreciate both. Certainly not enough to invite you to visit my house or to borrow money and books, but I like you both. :) A fool example, I have friends who believe in God in a blind way and also extremely Atheists friends. They are good persons and I sincerely respect all of them. They have different personal beliefs, but they all have good character and are intelligent. > Not to mention, again, that you think that a totalitarian piece of shit like quinn is a good guy. Since you believe that, your moral judgements are a bad joke...which shows what you really stand for. He is a good person. Too moralist and intollerant for being my friend, but he is a good person. You are a good person, but very aggressive in some moments and pretty intollerant too. Uff... Juan, you seem to know more about me than myself to judge me so bad in all the moments. Please, what do I really stand for? > Fine. I'm not tolerant either. I don't tolerate stupidity and evil intentions or acts. As to being 'open minded', again, I'm certainly not open minded to stupidity. Being 'open minded' to stupidity is hardly a virtue. Juan, if I show you some truth and you don't like it, you simply will say it is stupidity because you are too proud and hard headed for admissing when are wrong. > > [Cecilia] Sorry if you felt offended with my words. I don't support any kind of 'nazis'. Radical people are extremely boring. > > Not sure who you are calling radical? The nazis? The problem with the nazis were not that they were radicals. Or that they were 'boring'... I was not talking about nazism, only about extremely radical people: feminazis, vegan nazis, econazis, etc. Sorry, at least for me, radical people are always boring and/or annoing. > I don't think your explanation changes anything. You want to ignore this particular poll because it doesn't paint the americunts in a good light. But the poll is completely consistent with americunt 'culture'. If anything the real numbers are prolly higher. Juan, it hurts me a lot because it is a pool about my family's death, not because "doesn't paint the americans in a good light". It would hurt me the same if it was a pool about French people opinion, if it was a pool about Chinese people opinion... The problem is thinking about people saying that it was correct to use nuclear weapons to kill people. And, please, always remember that laws, sausages and researches are not made in a beautiful way. I don't trust in all researchers that I've knowed. I already saw some serious frauds in works and books. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3190 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 18:02:12 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 22:02:12 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> <5779a726.3224ed0a.c2c75.ffffadce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 9:08 PM, "juan" wrote: > OK Cecilia. You've finally proven that you are fucking retard. Serotonin and endorphins are science. I told you I like science. I was not offending you. Search about hormones and their effects in the mood. If I am a "fucking retard", at least, I have the "fuck¡ng" part and my mood is better than yours... Better being a fuck¡ng retard than being a retard without fuck¡ng like you, hihi! :) > A fucking retard who whether as unpaid hobby, or not, parrots establishment propaganda. Get a fucking clue. Or stop playing dumb. If you don't want to read my messages, just delete all of them. I really don't care and I still think you needs serotonin and endorphins urgently, Juan. Try it, please. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 932 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 18:28:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 22:28:26 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 21:50:41 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 3, 2016 7:51 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > My position is radically different to that of quinn and his > > mob > and yet you think we are both 'likeable'? Your opinions here are > absurd. > > Juan, you and Quinn are not my friends, but I appreciate both. You don't know anything about me, apart from the political comments I've made here. Same thing for quinn. All we know about him is that he's a totalitarian american shitbag. Whatever your personal connection to him is, (if any) it's irrelevant here. It is absurd for you to conclude that I'm a 'good' person and that quinn is a 'good' person too, since we represent completely opposed views of what 'good' means. Is this so hard to grasp? > Certainly not enough to invite you to visit my house or to borrow > money and books, but I like you both. :) > > A fool example, I have friends who believe in God in a blind way and > also extremely Atheists friends. They are good persons and I > sincerely respect all of them. 'Religious' liars are not good persons. Lying is not good. It's becoming clear that 'good' doesn't really mean anything to you. > They have different personal beliefs, > but they all have good character and are intelligent. > > > Not to mention, again, that you think that a totalitarian > > piece > of shit like quinn is a good guy. Since you believe that, your moral > judgements are a bad joke...which shows what you really stand for. > > He is a good person. Too moralist and intollerant for being my > friend, but he is a good person. OK. "Good" means nothing to you. > > You are a good person, but very aggressive in some moments and pretty > intollerant too. Tell me Cecilia, is it OK for governments to exist? You know, the 'good' utopian governments that do stuff that you think is 'good', like, I don't know 'free' schooling for poor children. If I recall correctly you said you are not an anarchist, but I'm making sure...before pointing out that you are in no position to call me 'aggressive' or 'intolerant'. > > Uff... Juan, you seem to know more about me than myself to judge me > so bad in all the moments. Please, what do I really stand for? See the stuff you posted and my comments... > > > Fine. I'm not tolerant either. I don't tolerate stupidity > > and > evil intentions or acts. As to being 'open minded', again, I'm > certainly not open minded to stupidity. Being 'open minded' to > stupidity is hardly a virtue. > > Juan, if I show you some truth and you don't like it, you simply will > say it is stupidity because you are too proud and hard headed for > admissing when are wrong. What am I wrong about? > I was not talking about nazism, only about extremely radical people: > feminazis, vegan nazis, econazis, etc. Sorry, at least for me, > radical people are always boring and/or annoing. OK - and the relevance here is? Or was that just one more random and irrelevant thought? > > > I don't think your explanation changes anything. You want to > ignore this particular poll because it doesn't paint the americunts > in a good light. But the poll is completely consistent with americunt > 'culture'. If anything the real numbers are prolly higher. > > Juan, it hurts me a lot because it is a pool about my family's death, It's not just about your family. It about the fact that TODAY there are lots of people who support that kind of attrocity. > not because "doesn't paint the americans in a good light". It would > hurt me the same if it was a pool about French people opinion, if it > was a pool about Chinese people opinion... The problem is thinking > about people saying that it was correct to use nuclear weapons to > kill people. The ones who are saying it are the americans. So tell me again about how good countries are and how much respect they deserve? > > And, please, always remember that laws, sausages and researches are > not made in a beautiful way. I don't trust in all researchers that > I've knowed. I already saw some serious frauds in works and books. From gnu3ra at riseup.net Sun Jul 3 21:53:37 2016 From: gnu3ra at riseup.net (gnu3ra) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2016 23:53:37 -0500 Subject: Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys In-Reply-To: <79c9f6c8b2fa7c9da43d62e2c255c059@openmailbox.org> References: <79c9f6c8b2fa7c9da43d62e2c255c059@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: This doesn't seem to be too much of a worry as long as the user uses a ridiculously long password. LUKS on linux does not use any hardware backed storage and it still fares fine. The only beef I have is if the key derivation function is weak (allowing for faster brute forcing). This can still be fixed by using >64 characters and many many bits of entropy. On 07/03/2016 11:44 AM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >> >> break Android's Full Disk Encryption >> > > But muh dick pics! > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > > From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 3 23:55:41 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 00:55:41 -0600 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577A086D.6020707@riseup.net> On 07/04/2016 12:03 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 4, 2016 2:45 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: >> >>> [Cecilia] Part of world's beauty is how different can be the persons. > Some people explode cities using nuclear weapons, some people try to build > a whole new world... :-) >> >> Yes, from an artistic point of view, exploding a city could be seen as a > "beautiful thing". No, what's beautiful is human diversity, the flexibility, the freedom to choose, etc, etc. > I never said that exploding a city is a "beautiful thing". I was not > talking about art, just about human nature. Contrasts between destruction > and creation. > > Sorry, I will leave the thread or I will spend millions of words to say the > obvious in an absolutely not polite way. > > After telling that half of my family was killed because the city they used > to live was destroied, I think it is pretty hard to see a city exploding > and people dying under "an artistic point of view". I highly recommend _To Hell and Back: The Last Train from Hiroshima_ by Charles Pellegrino.[0] [0] https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/charles-pellegrino/to-hell-and-back-last-train/ From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 21:23:36 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 01:23:36 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> <20160701231029.GU11626@x220-a02> <20160702010005.GB5207@x220-a02> <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 3, 2016 10:33 PM, "juan" wrote: > > You don't know anything about me, apart from the political comments I've made here. Same thing for quinn. All we know about him is that he's a totalitarian american shitbag. Whatever your personal connection to him is, (if any) it's irrelevant here. Why are you so sure about it, my dear Juan? You never will know exactly what I know, hihi... Nobody can know _exactly_ what another person knows. Never forget it, my dear. :-) > It is absurd for you to conclude that I'm a 'good' person and that quinn is a 'good' person too, since we represent completely opposed views of what 'good' means. > > Is this so hard to grasp? My dear Juan, I am talking about MY subjetive impressions about persons in general. Why can't you accept that I don't think exactly what you want I think? :((( Is it so offensive for you if I have my own opinion and it is different than yours? Why are you trying to impose me your opinion like a dictator? :((( Please, you say to be an 'anarchist', so be coherent. You say I am a 'retard', but I am an honest retard and you are not being honest, if you really are an anarchist. I didn't try to impose you my opinion. I simply told you what I think about you, and people, and about countries, wars, whatever... I never said my words are an 'absolute truth' or that I never will be wrong... > 'Religious' liars are not good persons. Lying is not good. Hey! Don't you respect a person's beliefs? Why do you think a religious person is a liar? :P Not necessarily. Even using Math or Physics, nobody can prove the existence or not of a God (or Gods, or Godess, or Godesses, whatever). If God exists, it is not a lie. There are several religions and holy books, but there is not an unambiguous, definitive interpretation of God, Juan. Sincerely? I don't trust religions and holy books, but I tried to study lots and lots of possibilities when younger. Reviews? Always is about love. Trying to be a good person and avoiding to be a bad person is enough. (I am not talking about being a 'saint' or something similar. Just avoiding to be a son of a b¡tch is enough and God and/or the people will sincerely appreciate your efforts! :-) I know, infinitely subjetive points of view, different backgrounds and ways of being, etc, etc... Part of world's beauty is how different can be the persons. Some people explode cities using nuclear weapons, some people try to build a whole new world... :-) > OK. "Good" means nothing to you. Oh, good! hihi... :-) > Tell me Cecilia, is it OK for governments to exist? You know, the 'good' utopian governments that do stuff that you think is 'good', like, I don't know 'free' schooling for poor children. You already know what I think about governments. I don't support them. > If I recall correctly you said you are not an anarchist, but I'm making sure...before pointing out that you are in no position to call me 'aggressive' or 'intolerant'. Only limited and/or stupid people respect labels. A person is much more than empty labels. Persons are their acts, their thoughts, their words, not the labels they like to use in society. If you want to use the "anarchist" label, the problem is yours, not mine. I hate governments, but I really think it is very limited to say "Oh, I am anarchist". Instead just talking about being a proud anarchist in lists, mimimi mimimi, do something real to destroy governments. "Talking is cheap, show me the code", do you remember? I am doing my part instead consider myself an anarchist. I only make jokes using 'vegan' and 'veggie' labels to explain that I don't eat meat and I don't like to kill animals, because the people really have serious problems to understand my reasons and it is easier to use a stupid already knowed label than spending time explaining all my actions. Nobody seems to care enough to see my acts, they just want to know my labels and judge them. Sorry, if I need to say "Oh, Juan, I am anarchist" to be accepted for you, we never will be friends. See my actions and who I am instead trying to impose your opinion with offenses. :P > What am I wrong about? Uff... God, I didn't say you are wrong. It was an hypothesis. Please, think instead being so defensive. > OK - and the relevance here is? Or was that just one more random and irrelevant thought? I was answering to your comment, Juan. Please, read again what you wrote before. My thoughts are so 'irrelevant' as yours. Or do you *really* think that everything you wrote is relevant for someone? Sorry, the world doesn't work this way! :-) Believe me, nobody says only 'relevant' things. First of all, because 'relevance' is pretty subjective. An important thing for me not necessarily will be relevant for me, and vice versa. > The ones who are saying it are the americans. > > So tell me again about how good countries are and how much respect they deserve? Uff... Juan, did you really read what I wrote before? I am too lazy to repeat everything again! :((( Sorry, I will stop to spend your time and also mine, Juan. Believe me, we both will be banned again if we make an infinite discussion here and I certainly will win in the end. I am not saying that I am right. I am just saying I will win at the end. Remember: I can do the same things that you, and wearing high heels, make up and dress. And I am much more 'troll' and 'hard headed' than you can be in this life and in all next lives, if they exist, hihi! :D I can be more boring and repetitive than you, my dear Juan, and I am Brazilian. Our national motto is "I am Brazilian and I never give up" ("Eu sou brasileiro/a e não desisto nunca"), hahaha!!! ;D Have a lovely night and sweet dreams, my dear! Try the serotonin and endorphins thing! Your body will thank you! <3 Cecilia PS: - You are a _without fuck¡ng_ boring and grumpy old sir, but I still like you, Juan. A bit less, but I still would give you a cupuaçu popsicle! You can't stop my affection, la la la... My feelings are mine, not yours, hahaha!! #singing #lalala ;D Yep, I know I am a _with fuck¡ng_ boring and grumpy old lady! #ProudTroll :)))) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7099 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 23:03:45 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 03:03:45 -0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> References: <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 4, 2016 2:45 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > > [Cecilia] Part of world's beauty is how different can be the persons. Some people explode cities using nuclear weapons, some people try to build a whole new world... :-) > > Yes, from an artistic point of view, exploding a city could be seen as a "beautiful thing". I never said that exploding a city is a "beautiful thing". I was not talking about art, just about human nature. Contrasts between destruction and creation. Sorry, I will leave the thread or I will spend millions of words to say the obvious in an absolutely not polite way. After telling that half of my family was killed because the city they used to live was destroied, I think it is pretty hard to see a city exploding and people dying under "an artistic point of view". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 4 08:04:28 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 08:04:28 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <577A7AFC.6010803@riseup.net> On 07/04/2016 06:18 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Happy 4 July!!! > > Long live the 'merican dream, long live the NSA!!! > > The founding fathers based slavery mainly on skin color. > > Nowadays every a'merican has _equal_ opportunity of slavery, > this is how progress works AFAICT. > America never had a revolution. Revolutions are based on ideology. Greed is NOT an ideology. Ben Franklin on the roots of that Greed: "Sir, there are two passions which have a powerful influence on the affairs of men. These are ambition and avarice; the love of power, and the love of money. Separately each of these has great force in prompting men to action; but when united in view of the same object, they have in many minds the most violent effects. Place before the eyes of such men, a post of honor that shall be at the same time a place of profit, and they will move heaven and earth to obtain it. The vast number of such places it is that renders the British Government so tempestuous. The struggles for them are the true sources of all these factions which are perpetually dividing the Nation, distracting its Councils, hurrying sometimes into fruitless and mischievous wars, and often compelling a submission to dishonorable terms of peace. And of what kind are the men that will strive for this profitable pre-eminence, through all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate; the Iovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will thrust themselves into your Government and be your rulers. And these too will be mistaken in the expected happiness of their situation: For their vanquished competitors of the same spirit, and from the aame motives will perpetually be endeavoring to distress their administration, thwart their measures, and render them odious to the people." ~Benjamin Franklin, Opposition to Executive Salaries, Constitutional Convention June 2 1787 http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1786-1800/the-anti-federalist-papers/opposition-to-executive-salaries-(june-2).php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fulanoperez at cryptolab.net Sun Jul 3 23:22:46 2016 From: fulanoperez at cryptolab.net (Fulano Diego Perez) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 08:22:46 +0200 Subject: DHS et al: Mass Transit Audio Spies Message-ID: From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Mon Jul 4 03:09:34 2016 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 10:09:34 +0000 Subject: [Cryptography] Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys In-Reply-To: <5BCAC416-4DDD-4E0D-87E9-9B62E82E6C6A@lrw.com> References: , <5BCAC416-4DDD-4E0D-87E9-9B62E82E6C6A@lrw.com> Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4CB9A99@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Jerry Leichter writes: >Lessons? Generality and power lead (to complexity, which is the enemy of >security. I think a more direct lesson here is that taking a security mechanism that consists of a bit flag used to tag a block of memory, defining any such tagged area as secure by executive fiat, and selling it as TrustZone, is no match for, you know, actually doing real security. It's not like this hasn't happened before, in 2013 Motorola cellphones got 0wned via attackers targeting the insecure TrustZone and attacking from inside that out to the (apparently) quite secure non-TrustZone code. Peter. From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz Mon Jul 4 03:13:40 2016 From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 10:13:40 +0000 Subject: [Cryptography] Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys In-Reply-To: References: <5BCAC416-4DDD-4E0D-87E9-9B62E82E6C6A@lrw.com>, Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4CB9AB8@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz> Jeffrey Schiller writes: >If you look at the exploit you will see it is a simple case of failing to >check array/string bounds. ... which is exactly what was exploited in the 2013 attack, alongside a whole boatload of other missing defensive features, no DEP, no ASLR, executable stack, strcpy()s all over the place, it was described at the time as a "hack like it's 1999" attack. As I said in the previous post, security is more than just a fancy name and a lot of marketing, you have to actually make an effort to make it secure. Oh, and given that this looks like a repeat of the same flaws from three years ago, patching your insecure code also helps. Peter. From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jul 4 08:40:10 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2016 11:40:10 -0400 Subject: Declaration of the End of Government Secrecy In-Reply-To: <577A7AFC.6010803@riseup.net> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577A7AFC.6010803@riseup.net> Message-ID: https://cryptome.org/2016/07/end-gov-secrecy.pdf From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 4 11:48:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 11:48:36 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577AAF84.9000308@riseup.net> Similar, set to a monty python skit: A man and woman enter. The man is played by Eric Idle, the woman is played by Graham Chapman (in drag), and the Secretary of State is played by Terry Jones, also in drag. Man: You sit here, dear. Woman: All right. Man: Morning! Secretary of State: Morning! Man: Well, what’ve you got? Secretary of State: Well, there’s sanctions and prosecutions; sanctions drone strikes and prosecutions; sanctions and war; sanctions prosecutions and war; sanctions prosecutions drone strikes and war; war prosecutions drone strikes and war; war sanctions war war prosecutions and war; war drone strikes war war prosecutions war cyber war and war; Vikings: War war war war… Secretary of State: …war war war sanctions and war; war war war war war war targeted assassinations war war war… Vikings: War! Lovely war! Lovely war! Secretary of State: …or a United Nations resolution combined with infiltration, a USAID fake Twitter application, a CIA overthrow, trained enhanced interrogators and with crippling sanctions on top and war. Woman: Have you got anything without war? Secretary of State: Well, there’s war sanctions drone strikes and war, that’s not got much war in it. Woman: I don’t want ANY war! Man: Why can’t she have sanctions prosecutions war and drone strikes? Woman: THAT’S got war in it! Man: Hasn’t got as much war in it as war sanctions drone strikes and war, has it? Vikings: War war war war… (Crescendo through next few lines…) Woman: Could you do the sanctions prosecutions war and drone strikes without the war then? Secretary of State: Urgghh! Woman: What do you mean ‘Urgghh’? I don’t like war! Vikings: Lovely war! Wonderful war! Secretary of State: Shut up! Vikings: Lovely war! Wonderful war! Secretary of State: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can’t have sanctions prosecutions war and drone strikes without the war. Woman: I don’t like war! Man: Sshh, dear, don’t cause a fuss. I’ll have your war. I love it. I’m having war war war war war war war targeted assassinations war war war and war! Vikings: War war war war. Lovely war! Wonderful war! Secretary of State: Shut up!! Targeted assassinations are off. Man: Well could I have her war instead of the targeted assassinations then? Secretary of State: You mean war war war war war war… (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words) Vikings: (Singing elaborately…) War war war war. Lovely war! Wonderful war! War w-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-r war w-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-r war. Lovely war! Lovely war! Lovely war! Lovely war! Lovely war! War war war war! No actual diplomats were harmed in the making of this production. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/96175631379 (H/t WashingtonBlog and David Swanson) On 07/04/2016 10:27 AM, juan wrote: > (south park - season 7 ep 1) > > > Adams: We must go to war! > > Dickinson: But what about the violence?! The lives lost?! If we > found a country, it should be founded on peace and diplomacy. > > Congressman 1: England will only understand one thing: Force. > > Congressman 2: [rises] I must state again for the record that > South Carolina, North Carolina, > Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Georgia are against war! [pounds the table > with his fist] > > Congressman 3: Yeah, because you don't care > about the fate of the Colonies like we do! You're all unpatriotic! And > if you don't like the Colonies, then you can git out! > > Dickinson: > Don't you call us unpatriotic! We're protesting this war > because we care so deeply for the fate of our Colonies! You are all > unpatriotic for leading the Colonies into a war that half of them > don't want! [the various Congressmen begin squabblig with each other] > > Cartman: [observing] Whoa, how very very relevant. > > Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble > Rabble Rabble! > > Dickinson: We cannot found a country based on > war! > > Adams: We cannot found a country that is afraid to fight! > > Congressman: Rabble! > > Congressmen: Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble! > > [the doors open and in walks an august figure. The boisterous voices > become hushed] Oh my, it's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. > It's Benjamin Franklin. [they keep murmuring this as Franklin walks > towards the main desk] > > Cartman: Oh, it's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. > It's Benjamin Franklin. > > Hancock: Mr. Franklin, where do you stand on the war issue? > > Franklin: I believe that if we are to form a new country, we > cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of > the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and > unwilling to fight to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a > country that appears to want both? > > Jefferson: Yes. Yes of course. We go to war, and > protest going to war at the same time. > > Dickinson: Right. If the people of our new country are allowed > to do whatever they wish, then some will support the war and some will > protest it. > > Franklin: And that means that as a nation, we could go to war > with whomever we wished, but at the same time, act like we didn't want > to. If we allow the people to protest what the government does, then the > country will be forever blameless. > > Adams: [holding a slice of chocolate > cake] It's like having your cake, and eating it, too. > > Congressman 2: Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying > one thing and doing another. > > Hancock: And we will call that country the > United States of America. > > --------------- > > Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and > doing another. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 10:27:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 14:27:27 -0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> (south park - season 7 ep 1) Adams: We must go to war! Dickinson: But what about the violence?! The lives lost?! If we found a country, it should be founded on peace and diplomacy. Congressman 1: England will only understand one thing: Force. Congressman 2: [rises] I must state again for the record that South Carolina, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Georgia are against war! [pounds the table with his fist] Congressman 3: Yeah, because you don't care about the fate of the Colonies like we do! You're all unpatriotic! And if you don't like the Colonies, then you can git out! Dickinson: Don't you call us unpatriotic! We're protesting this war because we care so deeply for the fate of our Colonies! You are all unpatriotic for leading the Colonies into a war that half of them don't want! [the various Congressmen begin squabblig with each other] Cartman: [observing] Whoa, how very very relevant. Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble! Dickinson: We cannot found a country based on war! Adams: We cannot found a country that is afraid to fight! Congressman: Rabble! Congressmen: Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble! [the doors open and in walks an august figure. The boisterous voices become hushed] Oh my, it's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. [they keep murmuring this as Franklin walks towards the main desk] Cartman: Oh, it's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. It's Benjamin Franklin. Hancock: Mr. Franklin, where do you stand on the war issue? Franklin: I believe that if we are to form a new country, we cannot be a country that appears war-hungry and violent to the rest of the world. However, we also cannot be a country that appears weak and unwilling to fight to the rest of the world. So, what if we form a country that appears to want both? Jefferson: Yes. Yes of course. We go to war, and protest going to war at the same time. Dickinson: Right. If the people of our new country are allowed to do whatever they wish, then some will support the war and some will protest it. Franklin: And that means that as a nation, we could go to war with whomever we wished, but at the same time, act like we didn't want to. If we allow the people to protest what the government does, then the country will be forever blameless. Adams: [holding a slice of chocolate cake] It's like having your cake, and eating it, too. Congressman 2: Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another. Hancock: And we will call that country the United States of America. --------------- Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 10:33:37 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 14:33:37 -0300 Subject: [OT] Five Simple Rules In-Reply-To: References: <5771DEBD.7000803@riseup.net> <20160628081344.GJ70912@r4> <57799b9a.6c2cc80a.ba252.ffffa466@mx.google.com> <5779a726.3224ed0a.c2c75.ffffadce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577a9d73.55aa370a.d9bab.ffff9296@mx.google.com> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 22:02:12 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > A fucking retard who whether as unpaid hobby, or not, > > parrots > establishment propaganda. Get a fucking clue. Or stop playing dumb. > > If you don't want to read my messages, just delete all of them. I > really don't care and I still think you needs serotonin and > endorphins urgently, Juan. Try it, please. Yes, Cecilia. I finally understood how right you are (and you are so right because you are so honest and truth-loving). The problem here is that I didn't take my dose of Soma. From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 04:37:31 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 14:37:31 +0300 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> References: <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: > 2016-07-04 8:35 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > Yes it's good to focus on the love. > But for survival, sometimes we must focus on the evil, just so much so > that we can protect ourselves. > Bingo, Zen! Well expressed. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 915 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 3 22:35:27 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 15:35:27 +1000 Subject: TSA Thugs: TSA Agents Beat And Jail Disabled Teen With Brain Cancer In-Reply-To: References: <5778112d.8e63370a.7ac2f.ffff816d@mx.google.com> <577960d5.8d38c80a.6ba10.ffff8609@mx.google.com> <5779949e.564e370a.24a9.575b@mx.google.com> <5779bb44.489d370a.25971.0877@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160704053527.GQ30352@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 04, 2016 at 01:23:36AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > There are several religions and holy books, but there is not an > unambiguous, definitive interpretation of God, Juan. Sincerely? I don't > trust religions and holy books, but I tried to study lots and lots of > possibilities when younger. Reviews? Always is about love. Trying to be > a good person and avoiding to be a bad person is enough. Problem is, most religions have bits about love thy neighbour, but also how here and there "God" calls upon "his" "subjects" to sacrifice a son for example, or to "cut off the head of the unbelievers [of this particular religion]" for example. So perhaps "every religion" has some proclamation to love thy neighbour, I don't know, cannot vouch for that, but this is not enough to make an assessment of a religion and whether those who subscribe to that particular dogma are likely or not to kill me, and or my family, and or my friends. Even if a religion is "the religion of peace" or says "love thy neighbour" does not mean there are not other beliefs written in that religion's holy books, which call upon the believers to commit evil crimes. Yes it's good to focus on the love. But for survival, sometimes we must focus on the evil, just so much so that we can protect ourselves. If we don't do this, we are in denial of reality of religions, and also, sadly, of humans.. > Part of world's beauty is how different can be the > persons. Some people explode cities using nuclear weapons, some people try > to build a whole new world... :-) Yes, from an artistic point of view, exploding a city could be seen as a "beautiful thing". I won't use those terms together in that way, and I think doing so often causes conversational contention of no benefit. Contention can be useful, but not when we end up disputing "artistic" or "obviously fallacious" points... > > What am I wrong about? > > Uff... God, I didn't say you are wrong. It was an hypothesis. Please, > think instead being so defensive. This is very useful type of communication. No point we waste time running down rabbit holes for no benefit :) Love y'all From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 3 22:51:16 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 15:51:16 +1000 Subject: Android Full Disk Encryption Broken - Extracting Qualcomm's KeyMaster Keys In-Reply-To: References: <79c9f6c8b2fa7c9da43d62e2c255c059@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <20160704055116.GR30352@x220-a02> > On 07/03/2016 11:44 AM, Spencer wrote: > > Hi, > > > >> > >> break Android's Full Disk Encryption > >> > > > > But muh dick pics! > > > > Wordlife, > > Spencer On Sun, Jul 03, 2016 at 11:53:37PM -0500, gnu3ra wrote: > This doesn't seem to be too much of a worry as long as the user uses a > ridiculously long password. The longer the picture, the longer the password, that's what I always say. > LUKS on linux does not use any hardware > backed storage and it still fares fine. The only beef I have is if the > key derivation function is weak (allowing for faster brute forcing). > This can still be fixed by using >64 characters and many many bits of > entropy. Yep, instead of a 4-number pin at the login screen, I can really see folks going for a > 64 character pin phrase ... that extra entropy will be simply irresistible to folks with very, long, pictures. From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 4 06:18:13 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 16:18:13 +0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! Message-ID: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> Happy 4 July!!! Long live the 'merican dream, long live the NSA!!! The founding fathers based slavery mainly on skin color. Nowadays every a'merican has _equal_ opportunity of slavery, this is how progress works AFAICT. From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 4 20:12:26 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:12:26 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <1065430722.1626788.1467664134202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <577AAF84.9000308@riseup.net> <1065430722.1626788.1467664134202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <577B259A.8010007@riseup.net> On 07/04/2016 01:28 PM, jim bell wrote: > *From:*Rayzer > > > >Similar, set to a monty python skit: > >Secretary of State: Shut up!! Targeted assassinations are off. > > What's wrong with targeted assassinations? > > Jim Bell > Not enough WAR! (just plain murder) Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2791 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bbrewer at littledystopia.net Mon Jul 4 17:13:54 2016 From: bbrewer at littledystopia.net (bbrewer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:13:54 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" Message-ID: > Begin forwarded message: > > From: nettime's substance investor > Subject: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" > Date: July 4, 2016 at 4:28:06 PM EDT > To: nettime-l at mx.kein.org > Resent-From: nettime at kein.org > Resent-To: Nettime > > > http://pastebin.com/CcGUBgDG > > ===== BEGIN SIGNED MESSAGE ===== > To the DAO and the Ethereum community, > > I have carefully examined the code of The DAO and decided to > participate after finding the feature where splitting is rewarded with > additional ether. I have made use of this feature and have rightfully > claimed 3,641,694 ether, and would like to thank the DAO for this > reward. It is my understanding that the DAO code contains this feature > to promote decentralization and encourage the creation of "child > DAOs". > > I am disappointed by those who are characterizing the use of this > intentional feature as "theft". I am making use of this explicitly > coded feature as per the smart contract terms and my law firm has > advised me that my action is fully compliant with United States > criminal and tort law. For reference please review the terms of the > DAO: > > "The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart > contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at > 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this > explanation of terms or in any other document or communication > may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond > those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory > terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes > and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s > code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe > there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions > offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at > 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls > and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation." > > A soft or hard fork would amount to seizure of my legitimate and > rightful ether, claimed legally through the terms of a smart contract. > Such fork would permanently and irrevocably ruin all confidence in > not only Ethereum but also the in the field of smart contracts and > blockchain technology. Many large Ethereum holders will dump their > ether, and developers, researchers, and companies will leave Ethereum. > Make no mistake: any fork, soft or hard, will further damage Ethereum > and destroy its reputation and appeal. > > I reserve all rights to take any and all legal action against any > accomplices of illegitimate theft, freezing, or seizure of my > legitimate ether, and am actively working with my law firm. Those > accomplices will be receiving Cease and Desist notices in the mail > shortly. > > I hope this event becomes an valuable learning experience for the > Ethereum community and wish you all the best of luck. > > Yours truly, > "The Attacker" > ===== END SIGNED MESSAGE ===== > > Message Hash (Keccak): > 0xaf9e302a664122389d17ee0fa4394d0c24c33236143c1f26faed97ebbd017d0e > > Signature: > 0x5f91152a2382b4acfdbfe8ad3c6c8cde45f73f6147d39b072c81637fe81006061603908f692dc15a1b6ead217785cf5e07fb496708d129645f3370a28922136a32 > > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 4 13:28:54 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:28:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577AAF84.9000308@riseup.net> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <577AAF84.9000308@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1065430722.1626788.1467664134202.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Rayzer >Similar, set to a monty python skit: >Secretary of State:    Shut up!! Targeted assassinations are off. What's wrong with targeted assassinations?                   Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 17:42:52 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 21:42:52 -0300 Subject: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <577b0214.0e0c370a.f80b3.fffffb21@mx.google.com> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:13:54 -0400 bbrewer wrote: > > A soft or hard fork would amount to seizure of my legitimate and > > rightful ether, Ahaha! Fun!! And the hacker/entrepreneur/thief will ask the US gov't for help to 'enforce' the hacking-thieving 'contract'!! Even more fun!!! > > I reserve all rights to take any and all legal action Priceless!!!! From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 19:58:19 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2016 22:58:19 -0400 Subject: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is awesome and should hold true (to the extent it's understood that there is no bug in ethereum itself and that DAO is separate from ethereum). If you write a fucked up contract, expect to be fucked. Trying to roll it back is seriously bad mojo upon ethereum making it unworthy of any degree of trust whatsoever. That's like bitcoin rolling back the pizza because user didn't think... that would become crazy amount of money today. hodling, positive returns to fiat given on all donations... bitcoin:14vpQmtParLRFDWuQr9rWMdYWTQXxtPXB3 From marksteward at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 01:49:48 2016 From: marksteward at gmail.com (Mark Steward) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 09:49:48 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amusing but old and fake. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4oo1io/an_open_letter_from_the_hacker/d4e62fj Mark On 5 Jul 2016 01:22, "bbrewer" wrote: > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > From: nettime's substance investor > > Subject: Ethereum: DAO - "The Attacker" > > Date: July 4, 2016 at 4:28:06 PM EDT > > To: nettime-l at mx.kein.org > > Resent-From: nettime at kein.org > > Resent-To: Nettime > > > > > > http://pastebin.com/CcGUBgDG > > > > ===== BEGIN SIGNED MESSAGE ===== > > To the DAO and the Ethereum community, > > > > I have carefully examined the code of The DAO and decided to > > participate after finding the feature where splitting is rewarded with > > additional ether. I have made use of this feature and have rightfully > > claimed 3,641,694 ether, and would like to thank the DAO for this > > reward. It is my understanding that the DAO code contains this feature > > to promote decentralization and encourage the creation of "child > > DAOs". > > > > I am disappointed by those who are characterizing the use of this > > intentional feature as "theft". I am making use of this explicitly > > coded feature as per the smart contract terms and my law firm has > > advised me that my action is fully compliant with United States > > criminal and tort law. For reference please review the terms of the > > DAO: > > > > "The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart > > contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at > > 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this > > explanation of terms or in any other document or communication > > may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond > > those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory > > terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes > > and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s > > code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe > > there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions > > offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at > > 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls > > and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation." > > > > A soft or hard fork would amount to seizure of my legitimate and > > rightful ether, claimed legally through the terms of a smart contract. > > Such fork would permanently and irrevocably ruin all confidence in > > not only Ethereum but also the in the field of smart contracts and > > blockchain technology. Many large Ethereum holders will dump their > > ether, and developers, researchers, and companies will leave Ethereum. > > Make no mistake: any fork, soft or hard, will further damage Ethereum > > and destroy its reputation and appeal. > > > > I reserve all rights to take any and all legal action against any > > accomplices of illegitimate theft, freezing, or seizure of my > > legitimate ether, and am actively working with my law firm. Those > > accomplices will be receiving Cease and Desist notices in the mail > > shortly. > > > > I hope this event becomes an valuable learning experience for the > > Ethereum community and wish you all the best of luck. > > > > Yours truly, > > "The Attacker" > > ===== END SIGNED MESSAGE ===== > > > > Message Hash (Keccak): > > 0xaf9e302a664122389d17ee0fa4394d0c24c33236143c1f26faed97ebbd017d0e > > > > Signature: > > > 0x5f91152a2382b4acfdbfe8ad3c6c8cde45f73f6147d39b072c81637fe81006061603908f692dc15a1b6ead217785cf5e07fb496708d129645f3370a28922136a32 > > > > > > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime at kein.org > > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5327 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 5 10:47:40 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 13:47:40 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> > On Jul 4, 2016, at 1:27 PM, juan wrote: > > Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and > doing another. > Lol. They get it right it sometimes (southpark), hilarious the rest of the time if you’re just stoned on weed. Anyway - “an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another”… I don’t think it was an original concept in the late 18th century, and its sure the fuck not an original concept now. This is just kinda how shit, err, “works”... — John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 518 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 11:47:13 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 14:47:13 -0400 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics https://twitter.com/wikileaks https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/07/05/1556204/the-fbi-recommends-not-to-indict-hillary-clinton-for-email-misconduct http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html The Internet seems to be all over this today. From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 5 15:53:07 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 15:53:07 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> On 07/05/2016 10:47 AM, John Newman wrote: >> On Jul 4, 2016, at 1:27 PM, juan wrote: >> >> Think of it: an entire nation founded on saying one thing and >> doing another. >> > Lol. They get it right it sometimes (southpark), hilarious the rest of the time if you’re just stoned on weed. > > Anyway - “an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another”… I don’t think it was an original concept in the late 18th century, and its sure the fuck not an original concept now. This is just kinda how shit, err, “works”... > > — > John > Psychopaths rise to the top of the shitpile and self-select It's the B and C of the Abcs of psychopathy No bonds No conscience Can lie with straight face and even the physiological signs of lying aren't there. Here's a classic end result when non-psychopaths get pwned: > "General Miles said to me in plain words, "If you will come out and > give up your arms, I will spare your lives and send you back to the > reservation." General Miles had promised we might return to our > country with what stock we had left. ... I believed General Miles, or > I never would have surrendered." ~Chief Joseph, "An Indian's Views of > Indian Affairs," North American Review, vol. CXXVIII, 1879, pg. 429 Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 5 16:03:29 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 16:03:29 -0700 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <577C3CC1.6050809@riseup.net> On 07/05/2016 11:47 AM, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/politics > https://twitter.com/wikileaks > https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/07/05/1556204/the-fbi-recommends-not-to-indict-hillary-clinton-for-email-misconduct > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html > > The Internet seems to be all over this today. > Diversion op. If the candidates did what they were supposed to be doing. Discussing the details of their presidential policies, it would be easy to see they all intend (within the bounds of what's realistically possible) to do the same exact fucking thing. Welcome to the one party state with two right wing factions. Donald Trump, a lifelong neoliberal democrat, is running on the Rethuglican ticket and Hillary Clinton, a neocon Republican (except for womens rights issues), is running for the Demoncrats I figure with Donald Trump, having pretty much destroyed the Republican's chance for a president in the oval orifice, and Burn-E siphoning off 3rd party support, Hillary will be the first president in decades to have a REAL mandate instead of the bogus ones, like Reagan claimed with 21% of the vote. She will still do exactly what the elite tell her to do. If by some fluke Trump won. So would he. They don't want to be the stars in the next 'zapruder' footage. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 5 16:05:09 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 16:05:09 -0700 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <577C3D25.1020908@riseup.net> In short, I think every fucking one of them is a criminal and singling out Clinton is total tl;dr waste of reading time. On 07/05/2016 11:47 AM, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/politics > https://twitter.com/wikileaks > https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/07/05/1556204/the-fbi-recommends-not-to-indict-hillary-clinton-for-email-misconduct > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/loretta-lynch-hillary-clinton-email-server.html > > The Internet seems to be all over this today. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 16:05:46 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 19:05:46 -0400 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Top of /r/news, with armchair legal analysis... https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4rd6ou/fbi_recommends_no_charges_against_hillary_clinton/ http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi-email-comey.html https://twitter.com/lawfareblog From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 16:29:43 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 19:29:43 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/5/16, Rayzer wrote: > Psychopaths rise to the top of the shitpile and self-select > It's the B and C of the Abcs of psychopathy > No bonds > No conscience > Can lie with straight face and even the physiological signs of lying > aren't there. > Here's a classic end result when non-psychopaths get pwned: > >> "General Miles said to me in plain words, "If you will come out and >> give up your arms, I will spare your lives and send you back to the >> reservation." General Miles had promised we might return to our >> country with what stock we had left. ... I believed General Miles, or >> I never would have surrendered." ~Chief Joseph, "An Indian's Views of >> Indian Affairs," North American Review, vol. CXXVIII, 1879, pg. 429 The former being flatly damning of the white man, his later words are equally interesting... https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-November/010874.html To the victor... From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 01:56:52 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 04:56:52 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> Message-ID: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/04/saudi-arabia-bombings-jeddah-medina-prophets-mosque-qatif http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/05/484817551/illinois-man-is-arrested-after-burning-u-s-flag-wont-face-charges http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database http://theadvocate.com/news/16311988-77/report-one-baton-rouge-police-officer-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-suspect-on-north-foster-drive https://theintercept.com/2016/07/05/washington-has-been-obsessed-with-punishing-secrecy-violations-until-hillary-clinton/ Maybe was not so happy. From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 6 05:05:29 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:05:29 -0400 Subject: gmail usage Message-ID: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". Do you use gmail for your main / private / important emails, in addition to list correspondence? Or do you consider the internet so pwned that it doesnt matter? (although, why make it easier for them..) I'm just curious... I started getting squeamish about it myself a good few years back, before snowden, just because it seems like an obviously bad idea to house all my correspondence at the HQ of one of the biggest corporations in the world, for them to play with, mine, and cross-index for targeted advertising as they see fit.. Setting up your own mail server (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, although you gotta pay a hosting fee, depending on how you decide to do it. And I guess there are other alternatives to gmail that are much better in this area, although I'm still inclined to use my own thing.. -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 6 08:08:45 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:08:45 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160706130203.GA689@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <20160706130203.GA689@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <577D1EFD.6000402@riseup.net> On 07/06/2016 06:02 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 05, 2016 at 01:47:40PM -0400, John Newman wrote: >> Lol. They get it right it sometimes (southpark), hilarious the rest of the time if you’re just stoned on weed. >> >> Anyway - “an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another”… I don’t think it was an original concept in the late 18th century, and its sure the fuck not an original concept now. This is just kinda how shit, err, “works”... >> > When is the official end of slavery in the USA? > (in ancient times I mean, not now) > > According to wiki "the land of the free" propaganda was published > in 1814 and the "founding fathers" didn't care about slavery at all. > The founders cared VERY MUCH about slavery. There was no industry of note, only agriculture, and the plantation/slave system was the only source of revenue for the country. As far a black folks being equal and not enslaved? Still workin' on it. Wallet. Sleeping. Skittles. Cell phone. Loud music. Cigarettes. Cigarillos. Shopping at Walmart. Toy gun. Failure to signal. CD's. In case you can't make the connection, these are reasons Black People in America are murdered by the police every day. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 6 08:30:09 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:30:09 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577D2401.7000703@riseup.net> On 07/06/2016 05:05 AM, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > Do you use gmail for your main / private / important emails, in > addition to list correspondence? > > Or do you consider the internet so pwned that it doesnt matter? > (although, why make it easier for them..) > > I'm just curious... I started getting squeamish about it myself a > good few years back, before snowden, just because it seems like an > obviously bad idea to house all my correspondence at the HQ of one > of the biggest corporations in the world, for them to play with, mine, > and cross-index for targeted advertising as they see fit.. > > Setting up your own mail server > (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, > although you gotta pay a hosting fee, depending on how you decide > to do it. And I guess there are other alternatives to gmail > that are much better in this area, although I'm still inclined > to use my own thing.. > > The only thing I use Gmail for is newsletters and an occasional official mail to businesses. If google wants to parse my interests by what I receive in the way of newsletters I really don't give a fuck. I get Stratfor, Reuters, Foreign Policy, Foreign Policy In Focus, The Economist... A dozen others. I hope their AI chokes on it. Speaking of AI... I posted a FB status about a gay man in Illinois who burned a flag, in drag, and then posted it as a profile pic on FB. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210289592215367&set=a.1674617904466.91080.1207997125&type=3&theater He was arrested under an Illinois state flag defacement law and then released b/c that law violates a 1989 Supreme ruling that flag burning is constitutionally protected. A few minutes later I noticed a Sponsored Sidebar ad... Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/BnrCbZu.png If you post on Facebook with the hashtags #LGBT and #Flagburner you end up seeing sidebar ads for incestuous pedobears at answersDOTCom. The pic IS SFW (I guess)... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 6 08:58:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 08:58:31 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Julian_Assange:_=22Of_course=2c_when_she_is_in_power?= =?UTF-8?Q?=e2=80=a6[Hillary_Clinton]_is_a_problem_for_freedom_of_speech.=22?= In-Reply-To: <20160706145148.GC30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706145148.GC30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577D2AA7.6050508@riseup.net> On 07/06/2016 07:51 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > So Julian Assange says of Hillary Clinton "Of course, when she is in power…she is a problem for freedom of speech." > > My question is, why does he say this in particular? > > I don't doubt that it's true, but I don't live in America and I don't > have a TV, so I'm hoping someone knows why he would say this.. > > Quote is from: WikiLeaks Releases 1,258 Hillary Clinton Iraq War Emails > http://theduran.com/wikileaks-releases-1258-hillary-iraq-war-emails/ > He worded it that way because she's the presumptive DemoCreep nominee and most likely to end up in the Oval Orifice with a landslide mandate to do WTFSW (whatever the fuck she wants). Surely Julian Assange knows they're ALL WARMONGERING SPYING MURDEROUS FREAKS... including Bernie.... whose just as much of a psychopathic liar as Donald Trump. A friend from Vermont told me he's called "Mr. Oblivious" because he never listens to his constituents, and NEVER keeps campaign promises. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From demonfighter at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 06:22:52 2016 From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:22:52 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 8:05 AM, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". I assumed from the beginning that they'd examine everything that passed through their servers. "If you're not paying for it, you're not the customer, you're the product" has been Cypherpunks wisdom since forever. Gmail has my main mail accounts, for various work, personal, and list stuff. I'm not too worried about privacy for this, as I don't put anything sensitive where outsiders can see it. (Though sometimes other people send sensitive info to my gmail accounts, which pisses me off.) I have a couple non-gmail accounts for various purposes, but these are also free accounts and I assume no privacy there. Formerly I ran email servers of my own. Let those slide mainly because keeping up with the patches and the spam was too time-consuming. For anything I want to keep secure, I use encryption. I had been relying on encrypted email -- GPG on my end, usually a PGP mail client plugin on the other end. I'm getting away from that because certain email correspondents who are not me seem to have trouble with even the relatively-easy-to-use plugins. eg, one normally technically savvy guy kept sending me signed rather than encrypted messages containing very sensitive material, and another guy could not manage to send me an encrypted message that I could decrypt. Lately I've been using non-email communications if I want to keep it private. A variant of a "send a message to this website's administrator" page, transmitted over SSL, is good enough for my purposes. It's not encrypted on my server and the response page is not encrypted on the recipient's computer, but at least it is (or should be) safe from casual snooping along the way. None of the above is meant to be the definitive answer to private communications or to worries about snooping. So far as I know it works well enough for my expected threats. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dreamingforward at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 07:44:28 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:44:28 -0500 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". Users have an expectation of privacy, but not necessarily a right to it. Without payment of services, there is no implied contract. (That can be argued both ways though.) You can encrypt your message within gmail (or any free email provider). marxos From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 6 07:22:18 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 10:22:18 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: > On Jul 6, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Build your own network. Rollout your own home servers/ open stack/ > etc. > It's the only way you will ever get any "reasonable expectation of > privacy" honoured! > > Enjoy the ride, too :) Agreed! > >> Setting up your own mail server >> (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, > Few ISPs provide a fixed IP address for free if you ask, some certainly > provide a fixed IP if you pay a little extra every month. > > Recommended to have two IP addresses too - have fun :) I actually meant getting a VPS or cheap rack mount server at one of many many possible hosting facilities... where a /29 plus like more IPv6 addresses then you will ever need usually comes standard... -- john From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 6 10:28:08 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 10:28:08 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577D3B39.9000001@pilobilus.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <577D3B39.9000001@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <577D3FA8.2000901@riseup.net> On 07/06/2016 10:09 AM, Steve Kinney wrote: > "Obsessive avoidance of Internet surveillance does not take you off > the radar, it only takes you out of the game." - Me Cops notice people who drive too well. "Drive it like it's stolen" can mean drive it so no one notices as well as wild in the street. Wheelmen for professional bank/jewelery store robbery teams tend to be pretty good drivers too. Obsessive avoidance does not take you out of the game. It actually make you a person of interest. It's best to swim like any other phish in the internet sea unless you abso-positiv-lutely need the secrecy, THEN you use those techniques. It's a dissuasion/obfuscation tactic. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sdw at lig.net Wed Jul 6 11:23:49 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 11:23:49 -0700 Subject: Propaganda Is Beautiful [was: comprehending the heart's nationalism] In-Reply-To: <22330bf838bf6ca0db784e75a26f64ca@openmailbox.org> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <5775FF51.7030502@riseup.net> <22330bf838bf6ca0db784e75a26f64ca@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: On 7/1/16 12:41 AM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >> >> Александр: >> propaganda >> > > Art is propaganda. > Everything is art. > > Some propaganda [has images]: > > http://www.crestock.com/blog/design/propaganda-design-aesthetics-soviet-retro-posters-118.aspx > > http://www.crestock.com/blog/design/the-evolution-of-propaganda-design-us-retro-posters-122.aspx Nice. Note: > *1955:* With the end of World War II, the US government stepped down the production of propaganda posters. Propaganda directed > towards the new enemy, the Soviet Union, seems to have shifted more towards television, and away from printed posters. At least, I > haven't really been able to find any "official" anti-communist posters from the period. > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > sdw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1962 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Wed Jul 6 08:25:43 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 11:25:43 -0400 Subject: Julian Assange: =?iso-8859-1?Q?"Of_course,_when_she_is_in_power=85[Hillary_Clin?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?ton]_is_a_problem_for_freedom_of_speech."?= In-Reply-To: <20160706145148.GC30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706145148.GC30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: He means that anyone in power is a problem for freedom of speech. Official secrecy is mandatory for official power, secrecy for power. Note that WikiLeaks uses secrecy for its power to seduce and withhold, as does media, as do institutions, and, lo, as do individuals. Freedom of speech is necessarily asymmetrical, favors oneself, disfavors others. Freedom of speech has always been weaponized by secrecy. BTW, the Clinton emails released by WikiLeaks is a dribble promoted by many, many more, never fully disclosed, the latest fashion of the dinky-leak-secrets industry. At 10:51 AM 7/6/2016, you wrote: >So Julian Assange says of Hillary Clinton "Of >course, when she is in power she is a problem for freedom of speech." >My question is, why does he say this in particular? > >I don't doubt that it's true, but I don't live in America and I don't >have a TV, so I'm hoping someone knows why he would say this.. > >Quote is from: WikiLeaks Releases 1,258 Hillary Clinton Iraq War Emails >http://theduran.com/wikileaks-releases-1258-hillary-iraq-war-emails/ From oda at member.fsf.org Wed Jul 6 08:15:34 2016 From: oda at member.fsf.org (Oda) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:15:34 -0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: 99% of my email massages go/come to/from a gmail account, so it's useless to spend time setting up my own mail server. There are several ways to send sensitive information (actually I don't think email is one of them). I'm using hubzilla (former redmatrix) for a few years now, you should give a try. -- Oda ------------------------------------------------------ If you don't have time to do it right, where are you going to find the time to do it over? ------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Xer0Dynamite wrote: >> Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, >> as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google >> is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly >> stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > Users have an expectation of privacy, but not necessarily a right to > it. Without payment of services, there is no implied contract. (That > can be argued both ways though.) > > You can encrypt your message within gmail (or any free email provider). > > marxos From sdw at lig.net Wed Jul 6 12:27:03 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:27:03 -0700 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> On 6/30/16 1:10 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > > >> In the unlikely >> event that we elect Trump, > He is unlikely to be elected because he's marginally better > than that murderours cunt, your boss hitlery. Not sure why a sexist slur makes any difference. Murderous? Are all US leaders, in general, murderous because the US (and others) feels it has to act as world policeman in generally impossible to finesse circumstances? Are policemen "murderous" because some of them are? What is your measure for 'murderous' here? At what point is self-defense not murderous? Do you think it is unfair for the US to have an asymmetric advantage? What does the presence of several orders of magnitude of better technological sophistication say about any particular pairing of cultures? The US never wants to fight. The goal is always to buy and sell things, share ideas, and party. Ignorant idiots who imagine that they will pick a fight and somehow 'win' without first building a more effective culture are sadly clueless. >> The US is too >> open and too self-examining in public for much false propaganda to >> get very far for long. > Of course. The only propaganda that the US tolerates is 'true' > propaganda. Feel free to point out the propaganda. There certainly have been untrue or weak statements made by certain politicians and officials, and usually are followed up quickly by public dissection and correction by the US and other media and others. Perhaps in the very short term, this is sometimes propaganda, but usually it seems more like mistakes / wrong guesses / inferences, self-delusion, and, once in a while, ruses. Even secret things often eventually get out; by US law, most secret things have to be disclosed after some period of time. But feel free to highlight, specifically, all of the propaganda that you are assailed with. > > >> I'm not sure that American Sniper is propaganda, > Of course not. It's not propaganda! It's jew-kristian art. If you say so. Seems like a character study to me, sad all around. > > >> The US almost completely holds back on propaganda > Right. The US psycho-leaders and all their sheep don't even know > what 'propaganda' means. They've never seen any, let alone > produced it. Examples? References? > > >> However, when hardly >> anyone in Afghanistan knows anything at all about 9/11 or similar, > > That's interesting. So you know exactly what the population of > afghanistan (let's assume 25 million) knows? Research much? http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/11/in-rural-afghanistan-many-don%E2%80%99t-know-911/ > > Last year, when 1,000 men in the southern Helmand and Kandahar provinces were read a three-paragraph description of the attacks, > only 8 percent said they knew about them, according to a survey by the International Council on Security and Development think > tank . The finding suggested a vast > majority of men in those provinces *-* a major area of conflict between coalition forces and the Taliban *-* didn’t know about the > event that precipitated the invasion of their country. > > Journalist Adam Pletts went to see for himself. While on patrol with U.S. Marines in Helmand province recently, he showed pictures > of the burning World Trade Center towers to Afghan men. In encounter after encounter, villagers and Afghan policemen said they > didn’t know about 9/11. > > “We don’t know, sir, because we’re farmers. We never heard anything else about the world,” one said, according to a translator > with Pletts. > > When Pletts showed pictures to several elders in one village, an elder said he thought the city in the picture was Kabul, > Afghanistan’s capital. > > “(He) clearly had never been to Kabul. Just shows you how isolated they are, even in their own country,” Marine Capt. Zachary > Shore said. > > The attacks, or at least parts of them, aren’t a mystery to everyone in Helmand and Kandahar. In the 2010 ICSD survey, 68 percent > in those provinces said they did recognize pictures of the burning twin towers, even if most of them didn't recognize the > three-paragraph description. The Wall Street Journal > noted that the events of 9/11 “are known to > educated Afghans, and to many residents of big cities,” and described interviews at Kabul University where “students said... they > were fully aware of the September 11 attacks.” > > But Shore isn’t surprised by the number of rural Afghans who apparently aren’t aware of the event that prompted the United States > to attack the Taliban, which was harboring the al Qaeda terror movement. “If I’d just got here, I would have been surprised, but > having been here now for six months, I’m not,” the Marine said. “This is pretty much the stone ages, where we are.” > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka-ImUVvXWM http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904103404576556531604340742 http://www.rferl.org/content/what_afghans_know_about_911/24318456.html > > How did you manage that one? You must have a high ranking > position in the americunt 'national security' 'industry' eh. > And you speak a few varieties of persian I assume? We call it 'free press' and 'investigative journalism'. Sure, there is a little bias in what they decide to investigate. But any untruths would be quickly countered by another news organization somewhere in the Western world. Or RT, which doesn't seem half bad except for certain Russian-interest reporting. > > >> that is a failure of the world to provide even basic knowledge to >> everyone. > And now you sound flatly crazy. The 'world' is supposed to > provide knowledge? What, you think "world" means "fascist > public indoctrination system"? Basic humanist principles. If you think that allowing people to suffer and die in ignorance, from disease, starvation, and stone age practices, is the only way to avoid fascism, then your argument is pretty weak. What is fascist about educating people about science, sociology, psychology, etc.? > > At any rate, I'd bet a couple of cents that people in > afhanistan know about your 9/11 false flag attack. See above. You have to be very uninformed and impressionable to believe it was a false flag attack. > > > >> it would seem like an important strategy for both US State and >> Defense, but I don't see it happening much. > > So we have a piece of neocunt shit making world domination > plans in the cpunks mailing list. How cute is that? The US and the Western world have been dominating the world in the cultural / technological / defense senses for a long, long time. Usually, they studiously try to avoid direct domination now by enlightened choice. To a large extent, the US doesn't want or need to dominate the world except for security purposes. Everyone sane wants people everywhere to have better lives in every sense. A few of those people think that expanding religion is the answer; I'm completely opposed to that in all forms. Most think that better secular knowledge and training would produce a much better life, regardless of starting point. Unfortunately, minimizing knowledge is a key component is a key part of the survival meme set of many religions. The truly educated tend to graduate from religion. If you were to choose 1000, and maybe even only 100 competent individuals with a good range of knowledge and skill from the US or a number of Western countries, and placed them in a village anywhere in the world, absent fundamentalist warfare, they would start a growing evolution / revolution within a generation. The differences between societies aren't geographic, genetic, or magic: poorly educated people with broken culture will fail anywhere while the opposite is generally true. Nationalist fighting as if it were equivalent sports teams or family feud squabbles with no right or wrong just obscures the real issues. That tends to hurt everyone not in the US and EU; on average, it hardly affects our lives. For me, Russia is a Western country in this sense. Metropolitan China, Japan, and India are too. So, First World really, but most of those are converging on Western values where it counts. > > Anyway, enough time wasted. Yes, it seems you have been wasting your time. >> The US has no need to try to make people like it; that should not >> generally be a goal. But the world, especially including the capable >> Western world, both governments and populations, has a responsibility >> to educate those with abject ignorance, poverty, and knowing nothing >> but conflict that there are better ways of being, limitless >> opportunities, and that they could effectively work to modernize and >> become effective societies and cultures. We need something similar >> to 'genocide' to identify pathological ignorance, recognize that it >> leads to the ruin of many lives, and determine how to take action to >> stop it. There is no need for each culture to be exactly like the >> West or a particular form of government, but they should understand >> the options, understand how things can work effectively and why, and >> be able to incorporate elements in a local way to eventually make it >> work. We need to decide how hands off we should be in allowing large >> areas to fumble about without making progress and even regress. The >> prime directive should only apply to societies that are functioning >> to a reasonable degree. >> >> An interesting question is whether and how poisoned thinking, i.e. >> bad memes, are shared, instilled, and propagated to eventually create >> terrorists and criminals: What should we do to prevent spreading >> poisonous ideas? Should we be rooting out bad imams, literature, >> religious leaders? Ideally, our values and culture is an effective >> answer to these sources, but, just like in the biological world, >> eventually a successful defense will occur. If you've read The >> Selfish Gene, you know that truth, rightness, or goodness are not the >> goals of particular genes or memes (ideas). The only thing that >> determines success is successful competition and replication. Our >> Western ideas can successfully compete and replicate against these >> bad meme sets, but only if they are present. We seem to be in a >> situation where some of our allies are supporting the teaching of >> memes that are directly opposed to modern knowledge, including social >> and political knowledge. What should we do about that? >> >> All of this is crosscutting to security, encryption, communication, >> publishing, and surveillance. Distrust is healthy, and sometimes >> prudent. And, if we fail totally as a modern society, we may need it >> to maintain a modern underground in our new dark ages. In addition >> to safe commerce and social connection, and balancing government and >> keeping it healthy, we should even better organize and extend the >> ways that we help enlighten the ignorant while combating meme cancer. >> >> I imagine that soon we'll have universally available Internet (LEOs >> for instance), ultra-inexpensive devices (smart phones are down to >> $50 or less now), and organized, complete, and effective educational >> material that is somehow available, safe, and effective for >> everyone. There should be some kind of support systems of various >> kinds, to the extent possible. We are failing for not working toward >> these kind of things effectively enough. >> >> sdw >> sdw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 15707 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 6 09:28:41 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:28:41 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706151354.GD30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> <20160706151354.GD30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160706162841.GA16580@synfin.org> On Thu, Jul 07, 2016 at 01:13:54AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 10:22:18AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > Renting a VPS is not ownership of the server/host. > > If you don't own or at least control (physical access and all) the > hardware, your server's RAM is owned/pwned. > > Think: VM is migrated across the hosting provider network, RAM and all. > > Think: Root in the host, has access to RAM of all guests. > > Think. Yes, I'm well aware of this distinction :) However, I consider it a fair trade off against consolidating all my email and contacts in plain text to google. You have to pick your battles. Find a hosting provider you can trust, or at least think you can trust, HEH. Alternatively, just lease a small 1U box. I had this service for free for like 10 years working at various ISPs. Of course, you STILL don't control any of the switching or routing fabric or whatever netwitness style gestapo software they may be running outside your rack... and this is true even if you were to run everything at home off your personal cable modem/DSL. You don't control the upstream from your house. -- John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:49:59 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:49:59 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:05 AM, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > Don't make any political statement on the internet that you would not feel comfortable shouting from the steps of city hall to a crowd of baleful law enforcers. This is the meaning of "free speech" in Soviet America. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 939 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 6 10:09:13 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 13:09:13 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577D3B39.9000001@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/06/2016 08:05 AM, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what > Google is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've > publicly stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > > Do you use gmail for your main / private / important emails, in > addition to list correspondence? > > Or do you consider the internet so pwned that it doesnt matter? > (although, why make it easier for them..) "Obsessive avoidance of Internet surveillance does not take you off the radar, it only takes you out of the game." - Me When it comes to the "chilling effects" of State surveillance, everybody who subscribes to CPunks is a member of a certain type of Polar Bear Club. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. I use GMail accounts as spam filters, i.e. destination addresses for contact forms on websites, and as logins for G-Everything services like Google Analytics. Google Analytics does make it "easier" for Google's best friend, tech support department and business partner NSA to keep track of who is visiting the websites in question, but the trade-off in utility for yrs. truly & clients more than justifies that. Anybody who wants a lower profile on the networks already blocks execution of javascript except from whitelisted domains, and blocks calls from their browsers to any URL with the string "analytics" in its URL. I did register a domain name and hire a hosting service /just/ so I could have real e-mail accounts, more or less under my own control. I did this for convenience, not any belief that it presents a barrier to State surveillance. On a related note, something truly horrible: I have an active account with NSA subsidiary The Facebook. Initially I set it up to test "social network integration" features when making websites: You can't market to the rubes in the cheap seats unless you can see the Internet through their piggy little eyes. Eventually I decided "what the hell" and started pumping out propaganda there. This led directly to physical participation in the local activist & radical scene. Given that my network traffic has been flagged for full take and permanent retention by every U.S. intelligence service capable of same since such capabilities first became available, I am sure that my presence on The Facebook does more harm to them and their interests than it does to me and my interests. State surveillance at least guarantees one an audience. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXfTs5AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqUU0IAILk8R3x+ksm81gQHFZtq14U lWHte1kXuUqDOpgKFgqYgPK3Kz08T1VCGdVFTbdLbqBvKjckBo9pBcY3M1Lr4Las S4/Yd5z0BMCu9oskNV4+UgSzB/Yes0+flSdTLUUhCcNuqbN4Er6cf0ceF6Jz2gO6 P3dBVuQ8oty5bbO/ifExb28GxLBswbRy/RLXJ/oH3WJAmftWz8BC+BXLDQudHR1q mfcqkjkKEhJWPIeop7fdPn9D07vd5C0BYV+89Swl4IGIHCRhJX72z30aUxSdZfkd B99Bx3alffllboYugDYawm1u7DrXSbPsBsmrk6odjwxz2QZR4y8+a6xuZLWDc2Y= =gMLs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 6 10:16:10 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 13:16:10 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706162841.GA16580@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> <20160706151354.GD30352@x220-a02> <20160706162841.GA16580@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577D3CDA.8050106@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/06/2016 12:28 PM, John Newman wrote: > However, I consider it a fair trade off against consolidating all > my email and contacts in plain text to google. You have to pick > your battles. Find a hosting provider you can trust, or at least > think you can trust, HEH. I trust Pair Networks to stay in business long enough to be useful, to provide competent tech support, and to refrain from most of the grossly abusive customer service tactics that are standard features in that industry. Apparently they decided early on to market to a professional audience using "quality" to differentiate their brand. It worked on me. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXfTzZAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqvD8H+wdRKZuFT4cFklH8eWu138oZ PfnHFOGIlxulkQSpO+CFNqxDbgmTYbMNtK1slro6aHqRSRa6YiIOFP95Nm6piQid L5uJsj0jgB0ZmzzKoFoDGoWrE+d4nKG0EbXiNPCGrGARXLulqSjp4HOUf71tr2mP 8oxgBH8062qYZvljRPFvX2FHVw0TqkLFGtpTsGwQ2rthEJhJMTRidVRbY0l5veNL RNCu/6cqhlWR7p9TUMC/+LEp2LCTp+3sIlsAheCkORXCgcrl8jJu8clf4eic1RcD SLxb6YDy1UM26SGyXCLBIFRpmuiRptKEQ/lfWloiXbjLGWMOVU3D7Y/7EpuZ+5E= =rqYZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:52:20 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 14:52:20 -0400 Subject: EasyDoc Eleanor Malware Onion Bots Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/05/easydoc_malware_adds_tor_backdoor_to_mac_systems_for_botnet_control/ http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/07/06/new-mac-malware-can-remotely-access-facetime-camera-but-macos-gatekeeper-users-are-protected Security firm Bitdefender has issued an alert about a malicious app that hands over control of Macs to criminals via Tor. The software, called EasyDoc Converter.app, is supposed to be a file converter but doesn't do its advertised functions. Instead it drops complex malware onto the system that subverts the security of the system, allowing it to be used as part of a botnet or to spy on the owner. "This type of malware is particularly dangerous as it's hard to detect and offers the attacker full control of the compromised system," said Tiberius Axinte, Technical Leader, Bitdefender Antimalware Lab. "For instance, someone can lock you out of your laptop, threaten to blackmail you to restore your private files or transform your laptop into a botnet to attack other devices. The possibilities are endless." The malware, dubbed Backdoor.MAC.Eleanor, sets up a hidden Tor service and PHP-capable web server on the infected computer, generating a .onion domain that the attacker can use to connect to the Mac and control it. Once installed, the malware grants full access to the file system and can run scripts given to it by its masters.A report on AppleInsider says that malware can also control the FaceTime camera on a victim's computer. But thankfully, Apple's Gatekeeper security prevents the unsigned app from being installed. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:06:00 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:06:00 -0400 Subject: Darknet Shenanigans [was: suspicious "Relay127001" relays] Message-ID: On 7/6/16, Roger Dingledine wrote: > In this > case we actually found these relays misbehaving (accessing onion https://boingboing.net/2016/07/01/researchers-find-over-100-spyi.html http://motherboard.vice.com/read/over-100-snooping-tor-nodes-have-been-spying-on-dark-web-sites https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-24/dc-24-speakers.html#Noubir https://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-booming-and-opaque-business-of-dark-web-monitoring https://motherboard.vice.com/read/dark-web-drug-dealers-are-making-sloppy-mistakes-onionscan-tor All quite expected and well known ever since the dawn of overlay networks. Same with the Internet. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:32:28 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:32:28 -0400 Subject: These Maps Show What the Dark Web Looks Like Message-ID: https://motherboard.vice.com/read/these-maps-show-what-the-dark-web-looks-like What does the dark web actually look like? Well, new research maps out the relationships between a load of Tor hidden services, and shows that many dark web sites, rather than being isolated entities, are perhaps more intimately intertwined than commonly thought. From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 6 06:02:04 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:02:04 +0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160706130203.GA689@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Tue, Jul 05, 2016 at 01:47:40PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > Lol. They get it right it sometimes (southpark), hilarious the rest of the time if you’re just stoned on weed. > > Anyway - “an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another”… I don’t think it was an original concept in the late 18th century, and its sure the fuck not an original concept now. This is just kinda how shit, err, “works”... > When is the official end of slavery in the USA? (in ancient times I mean, not now) According to wiki "the land of the free" propaganda was published in 1814 and the "founding fathers" didn't care about slavery at all. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:13:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:13:56 -0400 Subject: Senate Funding Bill For State Dept. Asks It To Figure Out Ways To Stop Bad People From Using Tor In-Reply-To: <05c3d619-71d6-d7be-1a22-193bc4c01589@gmail.com> References: <05c3d619-71d6-d7be-1a22-193bc4c01589@gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jeremy Rand Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:17:24 -0500 Subject: [tor-talk] Senate Funding Bill For State Dept. Asks It To Figure Out Ways To Stop Bad People From Using Tor Well, this looks unfortunate. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160701/18073734878/senate-funding-bill-state-dept-asks-it-to-figure-out-ways-to-stop-bad-people-using-tor I assume the Tor Project staff are aware of this language? ------------------------------------------------------ (Mis)Uses of Technology by Mike Masnick Wed, Jul 6th 2016 9:34am (Feedbacks linked above) https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2938815/FY2017-State-Foreign-Operations-Appropriations.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2938816/BILLS-114s3117pcs.pdf Senate Funding Bill For State Dept. Asks It To Figure Out Ways To Stop Bad People From Using Tor from the good-luck-with-that dept It would appear that Congress is not so happy that the State Department is a major funding source for the Tor project. Tor, of course, is the internet anonymyzing system that was originally developed with support from the US government as a way to promote free and safe access to the internet for people around the globe (mostly focusing on those under threat in authoritarian countries). Of course, other parts of our government aren't huge fans of Tor, because it doesn't just help activists and dissidents in other countries avoid detection, but also, well, just about anyone (except on days when the FBI decides to hack their way in). There has, of course, always been some tension there. There are always the conspiracy theorists who believe that because Tor receives US government funding it is by default compromised. Those tend to be tinfoil hat wearing types, though. The folks who work on Tor are not exactly recognized for being particularly friendly to intrusive government surveillance. They tend to be the exact opposite of that. And, of course, part of the Snowden revelations revealed that Tor was one tool that still stymied the NSA in most cases. But it appears that Congress may be quietly trying to undermine this. On Friday, Politico had a tiny blurb in passing about how the latest State Department appropriations bill making its way through Congress includes some references to stopping "circumvention technologies" from being used by bad people. The Politico report suggests this is designed to apply more broadly to encryption, but reading the specifics it appears to be targeted straight at Tor. Here's the Senate report on the appropriations, where it discusses funding related to "internet freedom." That, of course, was the reasoning behind Tor in the first place, but here Congress is now trying to put some limitations on what the State Dept. can do with its funds, including demanding that it seek out ways to stop bad guys from using technology like Tor. In the report, it's described this way: ...the Committee requires that spend plans submitted by the Department of State and BBG pursuant to section 7078(c) of the act include a description of safeguards to ensure that circumvention technologies are not used for illicit purposes, such as coordinating terrorist activities or online sexual exploitation of children. In the full bill, the key section notes that the funding shall only be available for internet freedom after efforts are made to stop bad people from using the tools. ... made available for the research and development of new tools or techniques authorized in paragraph (A) only after the BBG CEO, in consultation with the Secretary of State and other relevant United States Government departments and agencies, evaluates the risks and benefits of such new tools or techniques, and establishes safeguards to minimize the use of such new tools or techniques for illicit purposes. In case you're wondering, the "BBG CEO" is the CEO of the Broadcasting Board of Governors, the US government agency that manages media efforts around the globe, such as the Voice of America. Make no mistake, this appears to be an attempt to sneak in an attack on Tor via Congress into the State Dept. Tor has been developed to provide the best absolute anonymity/privacy tools for people using the internet -- with the acknowledgement that it can be misused, because the people developing it recognize that the best way to protect the vast majority of its users is to build a system that is truly secure -- not one that artificially tries to limit its uses. Hopefully, this provision is changed, or else it may be eventually leveraged as a way to attack Tor, to attack Tor's funding and try to get the State Department to stop supporting such useful projects. ---------------------------------- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:22:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:22:45 -0300 Subject: frustrated with the MSM lately? In-Reply-To: References: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577d5a04.c469370a.cd7d5.ffffb233@mx.google.com> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 21:37:39 +0300 Александр wrote: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgSX-WD96Q > > > > Wau! > So loud and clear... so true and "UNdiplomatic"... > Beautiful! Interesting thing is, 70 years after WWII the americunt invasion of europe keeps progressing... Not surprising though, amerika is a cancer. > > Thank you, Zen. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:33:08 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:33:08 -0300 Subject: [OT] [Hiroshima] [Nagasaki] Fwd: Paz In-Reply-To: <577d4c907d609_56dfc09068156b6@resque-action-alert-sending-0ef33724eed2a1413.mail> References: <577d4c907d609_56dfc09068156b6@resque-action-alert-sending-0ef33724eed2a1413.mail> Message-ID: "Paz" means "Peace" in Portuguese. The message was written in Portuguese and English. I know it is absolutely OT and I sincerely beg pardon for sending it to this list, but considering some of our last discussions, everybody can understand why I cried a lot reading it and why I am asking for help. Thank you all in advance! Peace. Ceci ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Rogerio Nagai, via Change.org" Date: Jul 6, 2016 3:23 PM Subject: Paz To: [image: Change.org] Cecilia, este abaixo-assinado foi feito por uma pessoa como você. * Clique e assine para apoiar. * 1 min. de silêncio para PAZ em homenagem as vítimas de Hiroshima e Nagasaki na abertura das Olimpíadas 2016 Rogerio Nagai São Paulo-SP Clique para assinar ***** (Versão em Português) ***** A abertura dos Jogos Olímpicos de 2016 no Rio de Janeiro será às 20 horas do dia 5 de agosto. No Japão serão 8 horas da manhã do dia 6. Às 8:15 do dia 6 o povo de Hiroshima fará um Minuto de Silêncio pelas vítimas da bomba atômica que explodiu sobre sua cidade nesse dia e nessa hora, há 71 anos atrás, matando imediatamente milhares de homens, mulheres e crianças. O Prefeito de Hiroshima sugeriu ao Presidente do Comitê Olímpico Internacional um Minuto de Silêncio na abertura dos Jogos - momento em que todos os olhos do mundo estarão voltados para essa solenidade - juntamente com o Minuto de Silêncio em Hiroshima, lembrando todas as vítimas das bombas, dos testes atômicos, dos acidentes nas usinas nucleares, da mineração do urânio e de todos os tipos de violência no mundo de hoje. Ele o fez a pedido dos Hibakusha - sobreviventes de Hiroshima e Nagasaki - e em nome dos 7.000 Prefeitos da Associação Prefeitos pela Paz, que ele preside. Os Jogos Olímpicos foram criados para ajudar na construção da Paz entre os povos. Pessoas e organizações de todo o mundo querem se associar a esta homenagem, vamos juntos pedir um mundo de PAZ!!! ***** (English version) ***** The opening ceremony of the 2016 Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro will be at 8:00 pm on the 5 th August. In Japan, it will be 8:00 am on the 6th. At 8:15 am on the 6th the people of Hiroshima will observe one minute’s silence in memory of the victims of the atomic bomb that exploded over their city that day and at that time, 71 years ago, killing immediately thousands of men, women and children. The Mayor of Hiroshima has suggested to the President of the International Olympic Committee one minute’s silence at the opening of the Games – a moment when all the world will be focused on this ceremony - along with the Minute’s silence in Hiroshima, remembering all the victims of the bombs, atomic tests, accidents in nuclear power plants, uranium mining and all kinds of violence in the world today. He did it at the request of the Hibakusha – survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - and on be half of 7,000 Mayors of the Mayors for Peace Association, which he chairs. The Olympic Games were created to help in building Peace between peoples. For the first time they take place in a continent without bombs and atomic weapons. People and organizations from all over the world want to be associated with this tribute, let us together ASKING A world of PEACE!!! Clique para assinar Quer saber mais sobre este e outros abaixo-assinados? *Curta a Change.org no Facebook *! O que você quer mudar? Faça um abaixo-assinado . ------------------------------ A pessoa (ou organização) que iniciou este abaixo-assinado não é afiliada à Change.org. A Change.org não criou esta campanha e não é responsável pelo conteúdo do abaixo-assinado. Este email foi enviado pela Change.org para cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com. Você pode editar suas preferências de email ou cancelar o recebimento dos emails da Change.org. * Fazer abaixo-assinado * · Entre em contato · Política de privacidade * Change.org * · 548 Market St #29993, San Francisco, CA 94104-5401, EUA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 56931 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:51:36 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:51:36 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> Message-ID: <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:27:03 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > On 6/30/16 1:10 PM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 > > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > > > > > >> In the unlikely > >> event that we elect Trump, > > He is unlikely to be elected because he's marginally better > > than that murderours cunt, your boss hitlery. > > Not sure why a sexist slur makes any difference. "sexist"? The fuck are you taling about? Oh wait. I guess that pandering to feminazi cunts is your way to try to get laid? Sad. > Murderous? Are all > US leaders, in general, murderous Of course. Now tell me Stephen, what does an establishment bot like you do in an allegedly crypto ANARCHIST mailing list? I can counter your sick garbage/propaganda, but I'm curious why you post it here...? From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 6 14:12:07 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:12:07 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577D3FA8.2000901@riseup.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <577D3B39.9000001@pilobilus.net> <577D3FA8.2000901@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577D7427.4050503@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/06/2016 01:28 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/06/2016 10:09 AM, Steve Kinney wrote: >> "Obsessive avoidance of Internet surveillance does not take you >> off the radar, it only takes you out of the game." - Me > > Cops notice people who drive too well. > > "Drive it like it's stolen" can mean drive it so no one notices as > well as wild in the street. Wheelmen for professional bank/jewelery > store robbery teams tend to be pretty good drivers too. I have long considered this a minor but common cognitive error: It present a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. My suggestion: When you do drugs, don't drink and drive. > Obsessive avoidance does not take you out of the game. It actually > make you a person of interest. That's on the record via a non-Snowden leak of NSA filter rules published by a German paper. But obsessive avoidance of surveillance takes one out of the game of propaganda and networking for IRL political actions. It also limits one's ability to monitor opposition propaganda and team building efforts. That's a big win for the opposition: The so-called chilling effect of mass surveillance that makes Liberals run and hide while the Radicals laugh and high five each other. > It's best to swim like any other phish in the internet sea unless > you abso-positiv-lutely need the secrecy, THEN you use those > techniques. It's a dissuasion/obfuscation tactic. It is also beneficial to use evasive tools and tactics on a regular basis whether you need to or not, both to maintain the tools, stay current on the state of those arts, and so that occasional use of such tools for practical purposes will not stand out as red flag indicators that you are doing something especially interesting. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXfXQmAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqcToH/iwKKhfcJ+U3EElKVNK8PC1a 2GG7pX/s+wo+7kzVXnMlxn9xb4zMk49y9t8h3+h5Ky3duZ8fC4MtQbc98d6vLUom xp/B8Obj3KxrP+JD7PpTdwBJfwoWwVPoX6ZTmME2okdMsW4ML9f2A3ZroERUdUsY A0EQyJ5c4ctAEGGVkBkkNhEjrBse71uuw4C0cMOSQ9lDhCDZC03H160IvPC+8x7i vQsrtl/K1/MvMCwY7uCC5fUE1Jctd+UHQYnOhb05x2jPsE5INHrZJdqFbJNNGnlz myPdXSyiLIH8SYTakQjGuZmL7hBRCy2NxQ9q1ZaJQIQ/NdxsuucpGscCeAizfPk= =pfNw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 14:20:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:20:23 -0400 Subject: Why MAC Address Randomization is not Enough: An Analysis of Wi-Fi Network Discovery Mechanisms Message-ID: http://papers.mathyvanhoef.com/asiaccs2016.pdf From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:29:02 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:29:02 -0300 Subject: Senate Funding Bill For State Dept. Asks It To Figure Out Ways To Stop Bad People From Using Tor In-Reply-To: References: <05c3d619-71d6-d7be-1a22-193bc4c01589@gmail.com> Message-ID: <577d698d.5444370a.ee393.ffffbb37@mx.google.com> Great! Maybe we'll finally get rid of the tor cunts! From sdw at lig.net Wed Jul 6 18:51:03 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 18:51:03 -0700 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> On 7/6/16 12:51 PM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:27:03 -0700 > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > >> On 6/30/16 1:10 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 >>> "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In the unlikely >>>> event that we elect Trump, >>> He is unlikely to be elected because he's marginally better >>> than that murderours cunt, your boss hitlery. >> Not sure why a sexist slur makes any difference. > "sexist"? The fuck are you taling about? Oh wait. I guess that > pandering to feminazi cunts is your way to try to get laid? > Sad. Perhaps you were using the UK definition of 'cunt', although that usage is, I think, often as an endearment, much like 'bastard' or 'dude' in the US. In some locales, it's almost always used in a sexist sense. Anyway, your stooping to ad hominem attacks means you've already lost the argument. I was on BBSs in 1982, Compuserve in 1984, UUCP/Usenet in 1987 (a couple hops from uvax), running a server on the Internet continuously since 1992, setting up a couple ISPs including a satellite link in the early 90's, on AOL in 1995 (I wrote BuddyList for AOL.), and various other things. Calling me names on the Internet is not going to phase me. >> Murderous? Are all >> US leaders, in general, murderous > > Of course. Well, no wonder. So, if you were President of the US, what would you do differently? How would that work better? > Now tell me Stephen, what does an establishment bot like you do > in an allegedly crypto ANARCHIST mailing list? Define 'anarchist' and 'crypto-anarchist', think a little, and you may find some answers. Let's go with the Wikipedia definition: > Crypto-anarchists employ cryptographic software to evade prosecution and harassment > while sending and receiving information over computer networks , in an effort to > protect their privacy and political freedom > . From that, you can derive a number of reasons to support and/or be aware of and/or use the techniques from cypherpunks. For instance, you could look at the US as being largely based on free-speech-anarchism, as per the First Amendment. Based on that, and perhaps borrowing from the Second, Fourth Amendments and other sources, you could easily justify an effort like cypherpunks. In the 90's, Cypherpunks, individually and as a whole, were super important to avoid things going the wrong way in the US. It was important for clear-headed arguments to be made, legal and other challenges mounted in just the right way, and education and code spread widely and evolved quickly. Paranoid babble would not have helped, and is still not helping. Understanding the "establishment" doesn't mean being "their" bot. Your lack of understanding and/or irrational distrust doesn't make you an anarchist; it shows your ignorance. "You don't know your own argument unless you know your opponent's." - anon (I think.) You can't even understand who your opponent is unless you understand all sides as much as possible. > I can counter your sick garbage/propaganda, but I'm > curious why you post it here...? Quite a weak and lazy response; you obviously have nothing but bluster. If you can't back up your statements with evidence, you aren't really saying anything useful. Plonk. I think I've probably been "here" much longer than you have. I was learning and participating since fairly early, and continuously for quite a few years. For instance: http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1995/02/msg00141.html sdw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10298 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 6 13:25:29 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 20:25:29 +0000 Subject: frustrated with the MSM lately? In-Reply-To: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 7:41 AM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Someone is: > > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/putin-loses-it-journalists-i-dont-know-how-get-through-you-people/ri15456 > > youtube-dl --all-subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgSX-WD96Q > > My frustration is primarily with people who think that the US media are somehow "independent" just because they're not directly funded by the government. But at least government funded media sources have to work hard to *appear* independent, because they don't get the presumption of independence. The result is that you hear BBC asking much harder questions of MPs than you see asked to, say, the President by US media. The only real solution is to find sources that truly *are* independent, because they have no special access, don't embed with military units, don't get invited to White House press conferences, etc. Find the outfits the politicians refuse to talk to. In any case, though, I'm not sure I'd choose Putin as a spokesperson against sycophantic media. He's just missing the good ol' days when the government mostly controlled what reached Russians' ears. There are two sides to every story, but usually both sides are wrong. And the midpoint between them is wrong too. The real story is off on some axis perpendicular to the line between the two sides. To paraphrase Chomsky since I've so far failed to find a quote that concisely sums up the point, if you want to control what the public thinks, narrowly define the parameters of the debate and then ensure that there's vigorous debate within those parameters. This is what the Western MSM vs Russian media sounds like to me. It's all just nationalistic nonsense. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2364 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 6 17:25:43 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 20:25:43 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577D2401.7000703@riseup.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <577D2401.7000703@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Rayzer wrote: > > The only thing I use Gmail for is newsletters and an occasional official > mail to businesses. Yeah I use it myself for a few things, signing into the google overlord to gain access to the marvels. E.g. I like google voice, I like being able to use a standard rom on any android phones I have. Also, convenient for other stuff I don’t worry about, linked to a few accounts here and there, OAuth’ing in through google can be convenient sometimes, etc.. Google maps is nice. Heh. :) — John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 526 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 6 20:33:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 20:33:38 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160707031232.GI30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707031232.GI30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577DCD92.5040701@riseup.net> On 07/06/2016 08:12 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:49:59PM -0700, Jason McVetta wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:05 AM, John Newman wrote: >> >>> Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, >>> as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google >>> is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly >>> stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". >>> >> Don't make any political statement on the internet that you would not feel >> comfortable shouting from the steps of city hall to a crowd of baleful law >> enforcers. >> >> This is the meaning of "free speech" in Soviet America. > In Soviet Fascist Amerika, free speech fuck you. > I shouted fuck you at a cop from across the street just yesterday, for reasons not relevant here but let's just say he was hassling a 'poor person'. The motherfucker shouted back "Watch your language! There's children around." I shouted back "You have rooms full of NA and AA kids here because your CRIMINAL city government doesn't give a FUCK if there's jobs or housing for them so they're 'checking out' early and you're worried about my FUCKING language!" that he was a coward to hide behind children like that... Stupid pig stare from across the street. You have the right to remain silent You have the right to free speech f you're stupid enough to try it. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From skquinn at rushpost.com Wed Jul 6 18:45:14 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 20:45:14 -0500 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <1467855914.10223.3.camel@moonpatrol> On Wed, 2016-07-06 at 08:05 -0400, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > Do you use gmail for your main / private / important emails, in > addition to list correspondence? I use Gmail for as little as possible, usually only to email myself things to my main account on Fastmail (rushpost.com is one of their vanity domains). The "theft alerts" on my Android phone go to my Gmail because there's no way to send them elsewhere. A few emails from Google go there because it's either a pain in the ass or impossible to send them elsewhere. It's also another backup email for my social media accounts. In a perfect world I believe I wouldn't have to use Gmail at all. There is a reason we have the ability to put other domains after the "@" after all. -- Shawn K. Quinn From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:37:39 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 21:37:39 +0300 Subject: frustrated with the MSM lately? In-Reply-To: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgSX-WD96Q > Wau! So loud and clear... so true and "UNdiplomatic"... Beautiful! Thank you, Zen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 370 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 06:38:43 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 23:38:43 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 08:05:29AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? I had technical reasons to need to, and then momentum and a stream of life events meant it took me ~8 years (since pre general availability when it was invite only) to break that addiction! That's long time to be without a libre email stack, and a long time to be dependent on a company that, to justify the money they take from the NSA, having already stopped saying "do no evil" a few years back when they went into China, -now- has to further say: > They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". Build your own network. Rollout your own home servers/ open stack/ etc. It's the only way you will ever get any "reasonable expectation of privacy" honoured! Enjoy the ride, too :) > Setting up your own mail server > (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, > although you gotta pay a hosting fee, Few ISPs provide a fixed IP address for free if you ask, some certainly provide a fixed IP if you pay a little extra every month. Recommended to have two IP addresses too - have fun :) From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 06:50:16 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 23:50:16 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160706135016.GZ30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 09:22:52AM -0400, Steve Furlong wrote: > For anything I want to keep secure, I use encryption. I had been relying on > encrypted email -- GPG on my end, usually a PGP mail client plugin on the > other end. I'm getting away from that because certain email correspondents > who are not me seem to have trouble with even the relatively-easy-to-use > plugins. eg, one normally technically savvy guy kept sending me signed > rather than encrypted messages containing very sensitive material, and > another guy could not manage to send me an encrypted message that I could > decrypt. Run your own server, preferably at home. Provide a web frontend. Have those people who you need secure communication with sign up for a fancy new email account, on your server. Only send email to their email account on your server. If it's really really important, block their email account from sending email outside your server - they can still download attachments, but they can't "make an easy mistake" since they have to be intentional. If you provide POP or IMAP access, only allow encrypted access. If your contacts use the web interface, and you -really- want "security" (to the level you are confident in your own server at least), then issue your own Certificate Authority and server Certificate, and meet your contacts in person, manually installing your server certificate into their browser certificate directory! NEVER trust ANY external Certificate Authority for any server or communications that is highly sensitive! Feel el1te!!! > Lately I've been using non-email communications if I want to keep it > private. If it's on a phone or fax, or in front of a Samsung TV, or near any land line phone that's been certified by your national telecommunications authority, or in a public WIFI cafe which is likely bugged, or near any mobile phones that are switched on, or .... etc ... then assume your conversation is property of your national government and most likely the "five eyes" (USA, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Germany). > A variant of a "send a message to this website's administrator" > page, transmitted over SSL, is good enough for my purposes. It's not > encrypted on my server and the response page is not encrypted on the > recipient's computer, but at least it is (or should be) safe from casual > snooping along the way. > > None of the above is meant to be the definitive answer to private > communications or to worries about snooping. So far as I know it works well > enough for my expected threats. Suggestions for improvement are welcome. Use a chat application which provides PFS/ perfect forward secrecy, and allows transfer of files - that's another approach. There are plenty more. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 06:51:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 23:51:49 +1000 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160706130203.GA689@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <20160706130203.GA689@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160706135149.GA30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 04:02:04PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 05, 2016 at 01:47:40PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > Lol. They get it right it sometimes (southpark), hilarious the rest of the time if you’re just stoned on weed. > > > > Anyway - “an entire nation founded on saying one thing and doing another”… I don’t think it was an original concept in the late 18th century, and its sure the fuck not an original concept now. This is just kinda how shit, err, “works”... > > > > When is the official end of slavery in the USA? > (in ancient times I mean, not now) > > According to wiki "the land of the free" propaganda was published > in 1814 and the "founding fathers" didn't care about slavery at all. Or we can say, they cared very deeply ("it wasn't wrong, it was good business practice!") about their businesses... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 19:56:10 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 23:56:10 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> Message-ID: <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 18:51:03 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > On 7/6/16 12:51 PM, juan wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:27:03 -0700 > > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > > > >> On 6/30/16 1:10 PM, juan wrote: > >>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:33:22 -0700 > >>> "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> In the unlikely > >>>> event that we elect Trump, > >>> He is unlikely to be elected because he's marginally > >>> better than that murderours cunt, your boss hitlery. > >> Not sure why a sexist slur makes any difference. > > "sexist"? The fuck are you taling about? Oh wait. I guess > > that pandering to feminazi cunts is your way to try to get laid? > > Sad. > > Perhaps you were using the UK definition of 'cunt', although that > usage is, I think, often as an endearment, much like 'bastard' or > 'dude' in the US. In some locales, it's almost always used in a > sexist sense. Anyway, your stooping to ad hominem attacks means > you've already lost the argument. What argument? There's isn't any argument on sight, on your part at least. By-the-way : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cunt "1) A person so vile as to be without any redeeming feature." "2) stupid/contemptible person of either gender " "Only in America is this considered a specifically misogynistic insult " Another reason to use it against ameriCUNTS - so that they reveal themselves as lunatic, 'politically correct' puritans from the anti-sex league. Sexism!! What a terrible horrible crime against humanity!!! SOMEBODY PLEASE CALL HOMELAND SECURITY!!!! > > I was on BBSs in 1982, Congrats? And I give a damn, why? > Calling me names on the Internet is not going > to phase me. I'm just being descriptive ;) > > >> Murderous? Are all > >> US leaders, in general, murderous > > > > Of course. > > Well, no wonder. So, if you were President of the US, Sorry, your question is absurd. I, unlike you, happen to be in a crypto anarchist mailing list because I subscribe to the anarchist political philosophy. I hope you can get the correct conclusion from that premise, regarding me being 'president' of anything. > what would you > do differently? How would that work better? > > > Now tell me Stephen, what does an establishment bot like > > you do in an allegedly crypto ANARCHIST mailing list? > > Define 'anarchist' Dude, if you don't know the ABC of political philosophy, which you obviously don't, that's not my problem. Wikipedia? LMAO. Didn't your wikipedia article explain to you why government officials are 'murderous'? Tsk tsk. Looks like you can't answer the question. Why would a left wing fascist, sympathetic to that sick, murderous CUNT clinton, bother with crypto ANARCHISM? Second try. Try to do better this time. > For instance, > you could look at the US as being largely based on > free-speech-anarchism, If I were ignorant and dishonest, I could do that. > as per the First Amendment. Ahhhh! Laughable statist documents now are the pilars of crypto anarchism? Amazing. > In the > 90's, Cypherpunks, individually and as a whole, were super important > to avoid things going the wrong way in the US. Sure. And they were oh so successful. Chuckle. Thanks to their plans the US government has been finally overthrown and/or made obsolete! Good work! > > Understanding the "establishment" doesn't mean being "their" bot. Right. I for instance understand the establishment, including its bots, like yourself. You on the other hand just repeat establishment cliches =) Trump bad! Now, the other 'choice'... > > > I can counter your sick garbage/propaganda, but I'm > > curious why you post it here...? > > Quite a weak and lazy response; Right, lazy. I admit I have zero interest in wasting time explaining the ABC to somebody who's obviously...an establishment bot. > you obviously have nothing but > bluster. If you can't back up your statements with evidence, you > aren't really saying anything useful. Plonk. Evidence like your comment about trump....and virtually all the rest of what you said? > > I think I've probably been "here" much longer than you have. Yep, I've bothered to check the archives and saw your name (I also read some interesting stuff from other people...) And so I know that after 20 years you seem have learned nothing and actually became even more of a 'moderate' (i.e. american fascist) No wonder the americunt, electronic, global police state is just about to launch its 2.0 version. With opposition like you they surely need no advertising agencies... > I was > learning and participating since fairly early, and continuously for > quite a few years. For instance: > > http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1995/02/msg00141.html > > sdw > From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 07:33:22 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 00:33:22 +1000 Subject: frustrated with the MSM lately? Message-ID: <20160706143322.GB30352@x220-a02> Someone is: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/putin-loses-it-journalists-i-dont-know-how-get-through-you-people/ri15456 youtube-dl --all-subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgSX-WD96Q From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 21:37:16 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 00:37:16 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] These Maps Show What the Dark Web Looks Like In-Reply-To: References: <0615878f-7daa-73eb-fa43-43f9b4526edc@rawbw.com> Message-ID: On 7/7/16, Sean Lynch wrote: > since it would be criminally negligent for a hosting provider to use the > same key across all its machines. Please link to any such law. Also replicating ssh_host_key in and of itself has no access affect on the server side. All it does is make the user place more trust in dns/ip for authenticating any given server during login. It could be used in distributed load balancing, or to simplify cloning boxes. Possible and possibly stupid, yes. Negligent or criminal, no. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 07:51:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 00:51:48 +1000 Subject: Julian Assange: "Of course, =?utf-8?Q?when?= =?utf-8?Q?_she_is_in_power=E2=80=A6=5BHillar?= =?utf-8?Q?y?= Clinton] is a problem for freedom of speech." Message-ID: <20160706145148.GC30352@x220-a02> So Julian Assange says of Hillary Clinton "Of course, when she is in power…she is a problem for freedom of speech." My question is, why does he say this in particular? I don't doubt that it's true, but I don't live in America and I don't have a TV, so I'm hoping someone knows why he would say this.. Quote is from: WikiLeaks Releases 1,258 Hillary Clinton Iraq War Emails http://theduran.com/wikileaks-releases-1258-hillary-iraq-war-emails/ From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 08:13:54 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 01:13:54 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160706133843.GY30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160706151354.GD30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 10:22:18AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > On Jul 6, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Build your own network. Rollout your own home servers/ open stack/ > > etc. > > It's the only way you will ever get any "reasonable expectation of > > privacy" honoured! > > > > Enjoy the ride, too :) > > Agreed! > > > > >> Setting up your own mail server > >> (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, > > > Few ISPs provide a fixed IP address for free if you ask, some certainly > > provide a fixed IP if you pay a little extra every month. > > > > Recommended to have two IP addresses too - have fun :) > > I actually meant getting a VPS or cheap rack mount server at one of > many many possible hosting facilities... where a /29 plus like more > IPv6 addresses then you will ever need usually comes standard... Renting a VPS is not ownership of the server/host. If you don't own or at least control (physical access and all) the hardware, your server's RAM is owned/pwned. Think: VM is migrated across the hosting provider network, RAM and all. Think: Root in the host, has access to RAM of all guests. Think. If you don't own it, you don't control it. If you don't control it, it will be used against you. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 21:58:57 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 01:58:57 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> References: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:18:56 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Quote: > "Always and everywhere, when the masses are restless, even the most > enthusiastic liberals immediately reverse themselves and become the > most fanatical champions of the omnipotence of the State." > > I take exception to the historical absolute assertion "(They > ["Liberals"] know very well that no state in history has ever been > created by contract, and that all states were established by conquest > and violence.)", in that around 1900, the Commonwealth of Australia, > the federation of various states including New South Wales, > Queensland, Victoria etc, was created by referendum and consent of > the British parliament and the British monarchy, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and our beloved US are all ex colonies/administrative divisions of the british empire - the quintessential state created by conquest. Even if some of the - partial - secessions were 'consensual' as far as state agents were concerned, the new states never got any consent from 'their' subjects. And even if a state is not created by literal 'foreign' conquest, it still operates exactly like an invading army. Which is actually worse since it's your own 'countrymen' the ones who are invading and plundering you. > and not "by conquest > and violence" even though it is true that the majority of states > ("countries") in existence were created by conquest and violence. > > New Zealand and Canada and perhaps other Commonwealth states, I think > share similar non violent histories, though I am no historian, so > please do your own research if important. > > Setting aside this historical exception to the "conquest and violence" > rule about the creation of states, the paper gives much to think and > debate about. > > > Quote: > "Under the aspect of their earthly existence, the mass of men present > so sorry and degrading a spectacle, so poor in spirit, in will and > initiative, that one must be endowed with a truly great capacity for > self — delusion, to detect in them an immortal soul, or even the > faintest trace of free will." Yes, the essay is interesting because it has a couple of very contradictory positions like that one =P Also, I like how Bakunin who is supposedly a 'collectivist' and does have a demagogical collecvtivist streak actually ends up siding with the indidividual and against society's 'authority'. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 23:22:33 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 02:22:33 -0400 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: <577C3D25.1020908@riseup.net> References: <577C3D25.1020908@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/5/16, Rayzer wrote: > In short, I think every fucking one of them is a criminal and singling > out Clinton is total tl;dr waste of reading time. Even on the subject issue... the FBI reports directly to DOJ Atty Gen Lynch and DNI Clapper, which both appointed by and report directly to the Democrat Pres Obama, who shills for Democrat baller Hillary, leading in an election year, married to Democrat Pres Bill, additionally investigated by both State and DNI OIG's reporting similarly. No real independence, conflict of interest. Even if the best of beat cops had something to say, with that weight over their head is probably going to watch their words. Parsing emitted words is fun, yet yes, tldr. Perhaps better answer is to answer with list of who in history has fallen from the highest echelons due to actual legal process, not simply from political fuckups. Or with why fucking shit up, or doing fucked up shit, isn't illegal. Oh well, off topic, sorry. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 23:53:11 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 02:53:11 -0400 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: References: <577C3D25.1020908@riseup.net> Message-ID: Slightly more on topic thread closure... https://theintercept.com/2016/07/05/washington-has-been-obsessed-with-punishing-secrecy-violations-until-hillary-clinton/ People who leak to media outlets for the selfless purpose of informing the public – Daniel Ellsberg, Tom Drake, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden – face decades in prison. Those who leak for more ignoble and self-serving ends... are usually spared if they are sufficiently Important-in-DC. But if there is to be anything positive that can come from this lowly affair, perhaps [they] might start demanding the same reasonable leniency and prosecutorial restraint for everyone else who isn’t Hillary Clinton. From greenblue357 at posteo.de Wed Jul 6 20:51:00 2016 From: greenblue357 at posteo.de (greenblue) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2016 03:51:00 +0000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <577D2401.7000703@riseup.net> Message-ID: <8598d4b3-d2ae-cef3-d13a-11b93716ce87@posteo.de> John Newman: > On Jul 6, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> The only thing I use Gmail for is newsletters and an occasional official >> mail to businesses. > > Yeah I use it myself for a few things, signing into the google overlord to gain access to the marvels. E.g. I like google voice, I like being able to use a standard rom on any android phones I have. > > Also, convenient for other stuff I don’t worry about, linked to a few accounts here and there, OAuth’ing in through google can be convenient sometimes, etc.. > > Google maps is nice. Heh. :) > > — > John > why anyone ever would want to use gmail is beyond me. especially on the cypherpunks list. we should all know better. greenblue -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 6 21:10:04 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2016 04:10:04 +0000 Subject: [tor-talk] These Maps Show What the Dark Web Looks Like In-Reply-To: <0615878f-7daa-73eb-fa43-43f9b4526edc@rawbw.com> References: <0615878f-7daa-73eb-fa43-43f9b4526edc@rawbw.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 2:19 PM Yuri wrote: > On 07/06/2016 12:32, grarpamp wrote: > > > https://motherboard.vice.com/read/these-maps-show-what-the-dark-web-looks-like > > > > What does the dark web actually look like? Well, new research maps out > > the relationships between a load of Tor hidden services, and shows > > that many dark web sites, rather than being isolated entities, are > > perhaps more intimately intertwined than commonly thought. > > > The article says "this lack of diversity in hosting infrastructure is > concerning—it places the future of a large proportion of Onion Services > in the hands of a limited number of groups". The future web might even > have no hosting, because the new technologies like ZeroNet don't require > hosting at all. I personally believe that distributed architecture is > superior to centralized architecture, and is a way to go. > > Agree with the need for decentralized architectures, though ZeroNet is only part of the way there. It's fine for small, static sites, blogs, and small chat rooms, but the mail and ID services are each controlled by one individual, and all their data are flooded to all users. We really need a platform on which to build decentralized apps, more like Freenet or Gnunet. As for centralization in Tor, it wasn't clear to me from the article that the related sites were actually legit as opposed to, say, clones. Since they found sites that only linked among themselves, they must have just been mass scanning onion addresses. But what we really care about are the sites a lot of people actually use. For such a purpose, finding and ranking the sites by spidering from a few well-known seed sites would be more useful than enumerating all the hidden sites. They talked about a bunch of sites being hosted by the same hosting provider, but given that they had identical SSH host keys I'd guess they were all actually the same machine, since it would be criminally negligent for a hosting provider to use the same key across all its machines. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2639 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 03:18:01 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 06:18:01 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> Message-ID: > Maybe was not so happy. Double sad now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7DhbRUvNI From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 04:01:08 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 08:01:08 -0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2016 12:06 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:15:34PM -0300, Oda wrote: > > 99% of my email massages go/come to/from a gmail account, so it's useless to spend time setting up my own mail server. > > > > There are several ways to send sensitive information (actually I don't think email is one of them). I'm using hubzilla (former redmatrix) for a few years now, you should give a try. > > "Should", should I? > > It may be good, but hey, "it's useless to spend time setting up my own mail server" - well consider this burner email address burnt. > > Your personal need for centralised services may well mean you personally find certain things useless. > > Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists. Tsk, tsk... Oh, my dear Master Y-Oda, your suggestions are a disgrace to anarchists... Bad, bad boy! I will tell you horrible dad jokes and send Justin Bieber lyrics until you stop being an anarchist disgrace! ;) Zen, I didn't know Master Y-Oda was here, but it was an unexpected joy. I call him 'FOdastico Mestre YOda' (something like "F*cking Fantastic Master YOda") and several other strange names, because he is almost a "ninja master" in several subjects, is a very practical person and has an awesome sense of humor. Yesterday, I wrote a long letter to a hackerspace and mentioned Master Y-Oda as reference. Believe me, you can not agree with his opinions and suggestions, as I also do in some moments, but this guy does deserve our respect, Zen. Oda is able of discreetely trolling governments, always smiling and listening to music. Not necessarily good music, because we have pretty different musical tastes in some moments, haha!! ;D He not only thinks out the box, he kicks the box, my dear. Oda has an amazing sense of humor, a fantastic intelligence, a strong personality and a lovely hair. Not so gorgeous as ryziek's hair, of course, but I love Oda and all the things that make him so special. Kind soul, practical actions, unexpected ideas, creative hackings, dark sense of humor and beautiful hair included, haha!! ;D Governments, police, teachers and my own parents can't make me stop an argument. Oda can do it just saying "Stop, Ceci". I think it shows you how much I respect him. I have good reasons for it, Zen. He was trying to help. If you didn't appreciate his suggestions, believe me, he absolutely doesn't care. The same about being an anarchist disgrace, hihi! ;) Warm hugs! Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2849 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 7 08:19:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 08:19:31 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> On 07/07/2016 04:01 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > On Jul 7, 2016 12:06 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:15:34PM -0300, Oda wrote: > > > 99% of my email massages go/come to/from a gmail account, so it's > useless to spend time setting up my own mail server. > > > > > > There are several ways to send sensitive information (actually I > don't think email is one of them). I'm using hubzilla (former > redmatrix) for a few years now, you should give a try. > > > > "Should", should I? > > > > It may be good, but hey, "it's useless to spend time setting up my > own mail server" - well consider this burner email address burnt. > > > > Your personal need for centralised services may well mean you > personally find certain things useless. > > > > Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists. > > Tsk, tsk... Oh, my dear Master Y-Oda, your suggestions are a disgrace > to anarchists... Bad, bad boy! I will tell you horrible dad jokes > and send Justin Bieber lyrics until you stop being an anarchist > disgrace! ;) > > Zen, I didn't know Master Y-Oda was here, but it was an unexpected > joy. I call him 'FOdastico Mestre YOda' (something like "F*cking > Fantastic Master YOda") and several other strange names, because he > is almost a "ninja master" in several subjects, is a very practical > person and has an awesome sense of humor. > > Yesterday, I wrote a long letter to a hackerspace and mentioned Master > Y-Oda as reference. Believe me, you can not agree with his opinions > and suggestions, as I also do in some moments, but this guy does > deserve our respect, Zen. > > Oda is able of discreetely trolling governments, always smiling and > listening to music. Not necessarily good music, because we have > pretty different musical tastes in some moments, haha!! ;D > > He not only thinks out the box, he kicks the box, my dear. Oda has an > amazing sense of humor, a fantastic intelligence, a strong personality > and a lovely hair. Not so gorgeous as ryziek's hair, of course, but I > love Oda and all the things that make him so special. Kind soul, > practical actions, unexpected ideas, creative hackings, dark sense of > humor and beautiful hair included, haha!! ;D > > Governments, police, teachers and my own parents can't make me stop an > argument. Oda can do it just saying "Stop, Ceci". I think it shows > you how much I respect him. I have good reasons for it, Zen. > > He was trying to help. If you didn't appreciate his suggestions, > believe me, he absolutely doesn't care. The same about being an > anarchist disgrace, hihi! ;) > > Warm hugs! > > Cecilia > To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood "Don't criticize, analyze." If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, don't talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists." Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4003 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 7 09:28:51 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 09:28:51 -0700 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577E8343.5020407@riseup.net> They're slamming the WH for never having installed those anti-missile systems near their respective city halls, right? On 07/06/2016 09:53 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I know, I know, a positive story about Americans, at least some of them? > Absolutely. > > America is a large non democratic MIC hegemonic state, and I do not mean > to promote that structure. This article should speak for itself, and is > heartwarming to hear anything like this coming out of the USA: > > 1,400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War > With Russia > http://theantimedia.org/mayors-slam-obama-nuclear-policy-russia/ > > (Alt: > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/1400-us-mayors-just-slammed-white-house-risking-nuclear-war-russia/ri15436 > ) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 7 09:57:53 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 09:57:53 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577E8A11.3070503@riseup.net> No... I'm kicking Zeenan. I hadn't read yours before posting. Consider it addition to what you were saying. Joe Hill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill On 07/07/2016 09:29 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > Ah, Rayzer, as you answered after my message, I am considering you are > kicking me, not Zenaan! :P > > Please, spanking hurts less than kicks! :P > > On Jul 7, 2016 1:19 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" > wrote: > > On Jul 7, 2016 12:29 PM, "Rayzer" > wrote: > > > > To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood > > > > "Don't criticize, analyze." > > > > If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, > don't talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are > fact is a disgrace to anarchists." > > Hmm... Sorry, I didn't understand, Rayzer. :-/ > > Who said "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to > anarchists" was Zenaan, about Oda's message. > > I never would say this kind of thing and I didn't like it. So, I > told Zen who Oda was... :P > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2243 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 19:47:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 12:47:56 +1000 Subject: Fw: [ PFIR ] UK bill introduces 10 year prison sentence for online pirates Message-ID: <20160707024756.GE30352@x220-a02> "Every problem is an opportunity." "There's no problems, only solutions." Anyone in the UK? Now might be a good time to get a Pirate Party chapter going, only with a politically correct name, or use this as grist for your personal mill to further the state of the art of online file sharing. Good luck. ------- Subject: [ PFIR ] UK bill introduces 10 year prison sentence for online pirates https://torrentfreak.com/uk-bill-introduces-10-year-prison-sentence-for-online-pirates-160706/ The UK Government's Digital Economy Bill, which is set to revamp current copyright legislation, has been introduced in Parliament. One of the most controversial changes is the increased maximum sentences for online copyright infringement. Despite public protest, the bill increased the maximum prison term five-fold, from two to ten years. - - - Oscar Pistorius just received a sentence of about half that for murdering his girlfriend. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein (lauren at vortex.com): http://www.vortex.com/lauren From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 19:54:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 12:54:50 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:15:34PM -0300, Oda wrote: > 99% of my email massages go/come to/from a gmail account, so it's > useless to spend time setting up my own mail server. > > There are several ways to send sensitive information (actually I don't > think email is one of them). I'm using hubzilla (former redmatrix) for > a few years now, you should give a try. "Should", should I? It may be good, but hey, "it's useless to spend time setting up my own mail server" - well consider this burner email address burnt. Your personal need for centralised services may well mean you personally find certain things useless. Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 20:07:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:07:42 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> Message-ID: <20160707030742.GG30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:27:03PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote: > The US never wants to fight. The goal is always to buy and sell > things, share ideas, and party. Ignorant idiots who imagine that they > will pick a fight and somehow 'win' without first building a more > effective culture are sadly clueless. You must be American. I feel for you. There's this thing called Wikipedia around ... if you haven't got the time, I suggest saying less. > >> The US is too > >> open and too self-examining in public for much false propaganda to > >> get very far for long. > > Of course. The only propaganda that the US tolerates is 'true' > > propaganda. > > Feel free to point out the propaganda. Check out the CIA "list of government coups" or whatever it's called - been posted a few times on this list. I don't know what you're saying, but you're either incoherent or presuming your own position "unless disproved". That's not how logic works, that's just lazy abuse of weak readers/listeners. /Stephen D. Williams;killfiled From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 20:12:32 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:12:32 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160707031232.GI30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:49:59PM -0700, Jason McVetta wrote: > On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:05 AM, John Newman wrote: > > > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > > > Don't make any political statement on the internet that you would not feel > comfortable shouting from the steps of city hall to a crowd of baleful law > enforcers. > > This is the meaning of "free speech" in Soviet America. In Soviet Fascist Amerika, free speech fuck you. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 20:18:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:18:17 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> References: <20160622114123.GN29643@x220-a02> <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> Message-ID: <20160707031817.GJ30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 06:51:03PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote: > On 7/6/16 12:51 PM, juan wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:27:03 -0700 > > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > >> Murderous? Are all > >> US leaders, in general, murderous > > > > Of course. > > Well, no wonder. So, if you were President of the US, what would you > do differently? How would that work better? There was someone on this list wanting an example of American propaganda. Not sure who that was, don't think it was a real person, but above is an example, fwiw. Here we have an example of a rather sad and lonely species, the Americ0nt. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 09:19:40 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:19:40 -0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2016 12:29 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood > > "Don't criticize, analyze." > > If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, don't talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists." Hmm... Sorry, I didn't understand, Rayzer. :-/ Who said "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists" was Zenaan, about Oda's message. I never would say this kind of thing and I didn't like it. So, I told Zen who Oda was... :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 760 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 09:29:13 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:29:13 -0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: Ah, Rayzer, as you answered after my message, I am considering you are kicking me, not Zenaan! :P Please, spanking hurts less than kicks! :P On Jul 7, 2016 1:19 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > On Jul 7, 2016 12:29 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > > > To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood > > > > "Don't criticize, analyze." > > > > If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, don't > talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are fact is a > disgrace to anarchists." > > Hmm... Sorry, I didn't understand, Rayzer. :-/ > > Who said "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists" > was Zenaan, about Oda's message. > > I never would say this kind of thing and I didn't like it. So, I told Zen > who Oda was... :P > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1246 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 20:38:11 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:38:11 +1000 Subject: [tor-talk] Why MAC Address Randomization is not Enough: An Analysis of Wi-Fi Network Discovery Mechanisms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160707033811.GL30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 05:20:23PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > http://papers.mathyvanhoef.com/asiaccs2016.pdf > -- > tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org > To unsubscribe or change other settings go to > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk --- ABSTRACT We present several novel techniques to track (unassociated) mobile devices by abusing features of the Wi-Fi standard. This shows that using random MAC addresses, on its own, does not guarantee privacy. First, we show that information elements in probe requests can be used to fingerprint devices. We then combine these fingerprints with incremental sequence numbers, to create a tracking algorithm that does not rely on unique identi- fiers such as MAC addresses. Based on real-world datasets, we demonstrate that our algorithm can correctly track as much as 50% of devices for at least 20 minutes. We also show that commodity Wi-Fi devices use predictable scram- bler seeds. These can be used to improve the performance of our tracking algorithm. Finally, we present two attacks that reveal the real MAC address of a device, even if MAC ad- dress randomization is used. In the first one, we create fake hotspots to induce clients to connect using their real MAC address. The second technique relies on the new 802.11u standard, commonly referred to as Hotspot 2.0, where we show that Linux and Windows send Access Network Query Protocol (ANQP) requests using their real MAC address. --- Sad state of "security" in the world today. We know we need open source -everything-, including network stacks, firmware, and even chip/ hardware designs, not to mention manufacturing to end user chain of physical trust.. A long way to go. From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jul 7 10:54:21 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:54:21 -0400 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/07/2016 12:53 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I know, I know, a positive story about Americans, at least some of > them? Absolutely. > > America is a large non democratic MIC hegemonic state, and I do not > mean to promote that structure. This article should speak for > itself, and is heartwarming to hear anything like this coming out > of the USA: > > 1,400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear > War With Russia > http://theantimedia.org/mayors-slam-obama-nuclear-policy-russia/ > > (Alt: > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/1400-us-mayors-just-slammed-whit e-house-risking-nuclear-war-russia/ri15436 > > ) How could a thing like this happen? In recent decades, Mayors are among the very few Amerikans who have been exposed to accurate information about nuclear weapon targeting, yields and effects, because U.S. cities still have (archaic, symbolic) "Civil Defense" staff, assets and plans to manage. Since mayors have no authority to affect military spending and the foreign policy that drives it, nobody is bribing and blackmailing them to be cheerleaders for strategic nucular conflict toe to toe with the Russkies, already in progress. Those who believe that nuclear warfare is a game where "the only way to win is not to play" have not seen the budget figures for Uncle Sam's latest round of warhead & delivery system development & deployment. That money ain't just fed into a shredder ya know. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXfpdNAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqIskH/0zaTmoVPIuDf/qIlitmYvLS cm2AoPNmBLHPcnJGf3IYGZXD8zM0K9k+UQw4Cz+bQ0+ZY0vBT92Fm2JQ3CEEj18s tc1gbQoP+zIj9DciEJARF4CH+x0i70UH+I+eaJV9qf/qwC1D4He1E2POVcvIH6uz L6fmB5GmK553Jd9DEEr05ltHUA2+MyIARINDLIB0Je7H2lns1HtnZ+dhf26nOjQY 1+Y06faej6LjmfMl+6CtK1BR/jQ5K8wnPXjg4tF0vXEJzUSsURs0zEAC2mVV2TZE HS0ynx+Rs7O/Vekz1EHInP16WiozHkDsEV7QWVmykjshlUndW6JKPF43o37lVMU= =YGKG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 7 04:15:42 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:15:42 +0300 Subject: Fw: [ PFIR ] UK bill introduces 10 year prison sentence for online pirates In-Reply-To: <20160707024756.GE30352@x220-a02> References: <20160707024756.GE30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160707111542.GB689@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Thu, Jul 07, 2016 at 12:47:56PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > https://torrentfreak.com/uk-bill-introduces-10-year-prison-sentence-for-online-pirates-160706/ > > The UK Government's Digital Economy Bill, which is set to > revamp current copyright legislation, has been introduced in > Parliament. One of the most controversial changes is the > increased maximum sentences for online copyright infringement. > Despite public protest, the bill increased the maximum prison > term five-fold, from two to ten years. > Isn't this dangerous to honest users? "pirate-ransom": Own the user, make her download pirate/illegal content preferably from well watched site. In addition possibly make her seed the content. Remove signs of owning. Find a way to take money from her, if possible. It is possible that LEAs did something similar. IIRC the Hacking Team leaked stuff had movies with titles suggesting illegal content, don't have link at hand ATM. Check the sizes of botnets and the amount of sickuarity bugs and backdoors. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 21:18:56 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:18:56 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> References: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> > > PS, On "choice": every morning, between 8am and 8:17am, I "choose" > > to have a coffee, a fully free, first amendment style choice of my > > free will. Nope, nothing biological or preordained about it > > whatsoever. Nope, nuthin! > > Speaking of free will, anarchism, russians and the like, here's > an interesting read > http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/michail-bakunin-man-society-and-freedom.html That's an awesome read! Thank you. I put it into an OpenOffice file, 4 pages, 88KiB, numbered paragraphs, "tidy" layout by my standards. Email if you'd like a copy for easy printing. Quote: "Always and everywhere, when the masses are restless, even the most enthusiastic liberals immediately reverse themselves and become the most fanatical champions of the omnipotence of the State." I take exception to the historical absolute assertion "(They ["Liberals"] know very well that no state in history has ever been created by contract, and that all states were established by conquest and violence.)", in that around 1900, the Commonwealth of Australia, the federation of various states including New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria etc, was created by referendum and consent of the British parliament and the British monarchy, and not "by conquest and violence" even though it is true that the majority of states ("countries") in existence were created by conquest and violence. New Zealand and Canada and perhaps other Commonwealth states, I think share similar non violent histories, though I am no historian, so please do your own research if important. Setting aside this historical exception to the "conquest and violence" rule about the creation of states, the paper gives much to think and debate about. Quote: "Under the aspect of their earthly existence, the mass of men present so sorry and degrading a spectacle, so poor in spirit, in will and initiative, that one must be endowed with a truly great capacity for self — delusion, to detect in them an immortal soul, or even the faintest trace of free will." From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 10:42:07 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:42:07 -0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577E8A11.3070503@riseup.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> <577E8A11.3070503@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2016 2:04 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > No... I'm kicking Zeenan. I hadn't read yours before posting. Consider it addition to what you were saying. > > Joe Hill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill Oh, in this case, I think Zen will prefer being kicked than spanked! ;) Thank you for the references, dear. I've spent my last hours in a hospital and I am in a horrible mood. So, I was searching "anarchist disgrace" to have some fun. It didn't work well, but was curious, haha!! ;D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 21:53:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:53:25 +1000 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia Message-ID: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> I know, I know, a positive story about Americans, at least some of them? Absolutely. America is a large non democratic MIC hegemonic state, and I do not mean to promote that structure. This article should speak for itself, and is heartwarming to hear anything like this coming out of the USA: 1,400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia http://theantimedia.org/mayors-slam-obama-nuclear-policy-russia/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/1400-us-mayors-just-slammed-white-house-risking-nuclear-war-russia/ri15436 ) From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 6 22:11:16 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 15:11:16 +1000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?America=E2=80=99?= =?utf-8?Q?s?= Permanent Wars on the World Message-ID: <20160707051116.GO30352@x220-a02> America’s Permanent Wars on the World "Since 1945, America’s Manifest Destiny, posing as the Free World’s Crusade against the Red Menace, has claimed 20 to 30 million lives worldwide and bombed one-third of the earth’s people." http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/13/the-great-leap-backward-americas-illegal-wars-on-the-world/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/great-leap-backward-americas-illegal-wars-world/ri15448 ) Luciana Bohne Can we face it in this election season? America is a weapons factory, the White House a war room, and the president the manager of the neoliberal conspiracy to recolonize the planet. It exports war and mass poverty. On the economic front, usurious neoliberalism; on the military front, illegal wars. These are the trenches of America’s battle for world domination in the 21st century. If not stopped, it will be a short century. Since 1945, America’s Manifest Destiny, posing as the Free World’s Crusade against the Red Menace, has claimed 20 to 30 million lives worldwide and bombed one-third of the earth’s people. In the 19thcentury, America exterminated another kind of “red menace,” writing and shredding treaties, stealing lands, massacring, and herding Native populations into concentration camps (“Indian reservations”), in the name of civilizing the “savages.” By 1890, with the massacre of Lakota at Wounded Knee, the frontier land grab—internal imperialism– was over. There was a world to conquer, and America trained its exceptionally covetous eye on Cuba and the Philippines. American external imperialism was born. Then, something utterly dreadful happened in 1917—a successful social revolution in Russia, the second major after the French in 1789, to try to redistribute the wealth of the few to the advantage of the many. The rulers of the world—US, Britain, France and sundry acolytes—put aside their differences and united to stem the awful threat of popular democracy rising and spreading. They invaded Russia, fomented a civil war, funding and arming the counter-revolutionary forces, failed, and tried again in 1939. But Hitler’s war of extermination on the USSR ended in a spectacular victory for Moscow. For a while, after 1945, the US had to behave as a civilized country, formally. It claimed that the USSR had a barbarian, all-conquering ideology, rooted in terror, disappearances, murder, and torture. By contrast, the US was the shining city on the hill, the beacon of hope for a “the free world.” Its shrine was the United Nations; its holy writ was international law; its first principle was the inviolability of the sovereignty of nations. All this was rubbish, of course. It was an apartheid society. It nuked Japan not once but twice, deliberately selecting civilian targets. It shielded from justice top Nazi criminals to absorb them as partners in intelligence structures. It conducted virtual “show trials” against dissidents during the hysteria of the McCarthy congressional hearings, seeding the country with a harvest of fear. It waged a genocidal war on Vietnam to prevent independence and unification. It assassinated African independence leaders and bestowed fascist dictators on Latin America. It softly occupied Western Europe, tied it to itself through military “cooperation” in NATO, and it waged psy-op war on its opposition parties. Behind the civilized façade was a ruthless effort to take out the Soviet Union and crush self-determination in the colonial world. By hook and by crook, the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, and America went berserk with triumphalism. Now, at last, the conquest of the world, interrupted in 1917, could resume. The global frontier reopened and America’s identity would be regenerated through violence, which had delivered the American West to the European invaders in the 19th century. The benign mask dropped. Behind it came a rider on a pale horse. According to the ideologically exulted, history had ended, ideologies had died, and the messianic mission of the US to become the steward of God’s property on earth could be fulfilled. The “civilizing mission” was afoot.A cabal of neo-conservative policy wonks first sketched what I call the Great Leap Backward into lawlessness as a revival of the myth of the frontier in the 1990s. “The Plan for a New American Century” (PNAC) envisaged the 21st century as a unilateralist drive to entrench American values globally—what the PNAC ideologues call “freedom and democracy”—through preemptive wars and regime change. This frenzied delirium of US military domination turned into official foreign policy with the Bush Doctrine after 9/11, but it was the Clinton administration’s Doctrine of Humanitarian Warfare before 9/11, that shut the door on the prohibition of aggressive wars by the UN Charter, remaking the map of the world into a borderless American hunting reserve by removing the principle of sovereignty and replacing it with “right to protect” (R2P)—or humanitarian pretext for use of force. Clinton’s doctrine was an act of supreme, even witty, exploitation of liberal principles and commitment to policies of human rights. It was how the liberal left was induced to embrace war and imperialism as the means of defending human rights. The Carnegie Endowment cooked up the doctrine in 1992. Its report, “Changing Our Ways: America’s Role in the New World,” urged “a new principle of international relations: the destruction or displacement of groups of people within states can justify international intervention.” The report recommended that the US use NATO as the enforcer. It must be noted, too, that the principle of “humanitarian war” has no authority in international law. The Charter of the United Nations sought to outlaw war by making it impossible for unilateral interventions in the business of sovereign states by self-appointed guardians of human rights. The reason behind the proscription was not heartlessness but the consciousness that WW II had been the result of serial violations of sovereignty by Germany, Italy, and Japan—by militarist imperialism, in other words. The bell tolled for the UN and the old order in the 1999 Kosovo War. The bi-partisan effort to dismantle the architecture of the post war’s legal order played out there. With the Kosovo War, the Clinton administration launched the first humanitarian war and set the precedent for waging war without Security Council clearance of many to follow by both Republican and Democrat administrations. The Clintonites who used NATO to bomb Serbia to protect ethnic Albanians in Kosovo from non-existing Serbian genocide may or may not have appreciated the fact that Hitler had used the pretext of R2P—humanitarian intervention—to launch WW II by claiming to protect German minorities in Poland, but they certainly knew that the monopoly on use of force rested with the UN’s Security Council. This monopoly was secured after WW II precisely to prevent unilateral attacks on sovereign states through bogus claims of altruistic interventions, such as Hitler had championed and pursued. Ironically for critics of the Soviet leader, it was Stalin who insisted at the Yalta Conference that if the USSR were to join the United Nations a veto in the Security Council was a must to insure that any war would be a multilateral consensus and a multilateral action. As the Clintonites understood, the postwar legal authority for peacekeeping and the prevention of war entrusted to the UN Security Council posed a colossal obstacle to the pursuit of American world domination. For the vision of PNAC and the Carnegie Endowment to become reality, the United Nations, the guarantor of sovereignty, had to go. In the run-up to the Kosovo War, the Clintonites fatally and deliberately destabilized the United Nations, substituting the uncooperative UN Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali with the subservient NATO shill, Kofi Annan. Annan obligingly opined that in the matter of war and peace, UN Security Council resolutions were not the only way to skin a country– especially one chosen by the US for remaking, partitioning, or regime changing, a cynic might add. So now we live in a dangerous world. Once again, since the 1930s, the world is being stalked by an expansionist power answering to no law but its own unilateral, humanitarian vigilantism. The Kosovo precedent has spun out of control. Libya smolders in the ashes of NATO bombs, dropped to prevent “genocide”; Syria fights for survival under attack by genocidal terrorist groups, armed, trained and funded by genocide preventers grouped in the NATO alliance and the Gulf partners; Afghanistan languishes in a permanent state of war, present ten thousand American troops which bomb hospitals to promote human rights; in Iraq, the humanitarians are back, after twenty-five years of humanitarian failure. And in Ukraine, Nazi patriots are promoting American democratic and humanitarian values by shelling Donbass daily. I hesitate to mention Africa, where humanitarian Special Forces are watering the fields where terrorists sprout like mushrooms after rain—in Mali, Nigeria, Somalia, Kenya. Then there is Yemen, perhaps the most callous, vicious, and careless humanitarian crime of a litany of crimes against humanity in the Middle East. The US government has recently admitted deploying troops to Yemen. The Pentagon claims that the deployment will assist Saudi Arabia (“the Arab coalition”) to fight al-Qaeda in Arabian Peninsula. Can a sentient being meet such a grotesque claim with anything but infernal laughter? Help Saudi Arabia to fight its own creature? Are we stupid yet? $4 trillion dollars later, spent on the War-on-Terror/Humanitarian-R2P, the pattern of military destabilization of sovereign states proceeds apace, one recalcitrant, independent country at a time in the Middle East and North Africa. For the rest of the world, the surrender of sovereignty is sought by means of economic globalization through trade pacts—TTP, TTIP, etc.—that virtually abolish the constitution of states, including our own. Spearheading the economic effort to control the periphery and the entire world is the so-called “Washington Consensus.” It hugs the market-fundamentalist idea that global neoliberalism and core finance capital’s economic control of the planet by means of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Trade Organization (WTO) is the option to poverty and social chaos. Neither military nor economic war on the sovereignty of nations has yielded anything close to a stable, prosperous, and peaceful world. It had delivered death, destruction, debt, market crises, tidal waves of refugees and displaced persons, and concentrated masses of wealth in a few but powerful hands. What the poet W.H. Auden called “the international wrong,” which he named “imperialism” in his poem “September 1939,” is the crisis that stares out of the mirror of the past into our faces, and it bodes war, war, and more war, for that is where imperialism drives. In this scenario, no potential presidential candidate—even establishment-party dissenter—who does not call for both the end of the bi-partisan “Washington Consensus” and the end of bipartisan militarist aggression can reverse the totality of the “international wrong” or stem the domestic descent into social brutalization. If none calls this foreign policy debacle “imperialism,” elections will be a sleepwalker’s exercise. Nothing will change. Except, almost certainly, for the worse. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 12:27:03 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 16:27:03 -0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577eac7e.8451370a.bc50d.21e1@mx.google.com> On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 06:18:01 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > > Maybe was not so happy. > > Double sad now. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7DhbRUvNI video is censored by age From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 7 21:06:07 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 21:06:07 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> On 07/04/2016 06:18 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Happy 4 July!!! > > Long live the 'merican dream, long live the NSA!!! > > The founding fathers based slavery mainly on skin color. > > Nowadays every a'merican has _equal_ opportunity of slavery, > this is how progress works AFAICT. > Getting weird in Dallas. I have a few words to say regarding... #AltonSterling #PhilandoCastile focus for #PoliceMurders protests disrupted by Sniper killing cops in #Dallas https://twitter.com/AuntieImperial/status/751258860120264704 Also: https://twitter.com/406Llama/status/751263504779190274 Let's see how my spidey-sense about mayhem is working... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 7 14:28:13 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2016 21:28:13 +0000 Subject: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble In-Reply-To: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> References: <20160628084946.GB3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:07 AM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > OK, a few facts first, to try to pre-empt some standard responses (to > whoever ends up reading this): > > > 1) > I am pro-Russian, from points of view including the following: > > - That which I perceive as a "higher human intention" permeating the > Russian psyche, Russian history and the "Russian ethos". > > - Putin is unimpeachable. He has never taken any bribe, is patriotic > for his nation, loves his people, speaks truth, and encourages > Russians, and the entire world, to stand for a better world - > seriously, can we ask for a better leader? in ANY country? > I like a lot of what you say, and it's great to read the perspective of someone who is completely outside the western propaganda-sphere, but I find your devotion to Putin to be both baffling and concerning. There is simply no way a former intelligence agent and director of an intelligence agency, ANY intelligence agency, who then somehow rose all the way to be President of a large, powerful country is "unimpeachable." The rest of the things you say about him may well be true, except perhaps for the "better world" part. Nobody can unilaterally stand for the rest of the world unless they are willing to collaborate and compromise with a lot of other people. This is not to say that Putin is any worse than any US leader, of course. But substantially better? I seriously doubt it. I'd be equally concerned about any US or European leader who inspired a level of devotion similar to what Putin inspires in his followers. Of course, it is in large part the West's fault that Russians look to someone like Putin in the first place. We failed to dissolve NATO after the USSR collapsed, which is part of a pattern of the US acting like it "won" the cold war (the same way it thinks it "won" WWII) and thus now owns the planet. > > - Russians (in general) do not say "I, human, am the greatest and > highest thing in existence" - such arrogance is not the Russian > way. > Russians allow for things or consciousnesses or beings of greater > capacity, things yet unknown to the mind of man, for higher > possibilties for "man" and "soul"; > as true scientists, Russian souls are open to higher possibilties, > potential and actual realities, holding as true that we are more > than reproducing worms. > No matter -how- great any "scientific achievement," humility in the > face of the extraordinary-ness of this existence is maintained. > > - As at right now, the multi-polar world vision is the only hope we > have for a reasonable power balance in this world. > Anarchists or those desiring direct democracy, the "true" > socialists and "true" communists, and even the communalist Rojavans > - none have the mind share to cause a significant stand against > America the hegemon! > Perhaps in the future, we can attempt to move towards something > even better than a multi polar nationalistic world, who knows - I > certainly hope for greater possibilities, but right now, America is > absolutely despotic in its actions, and its collective despotic > hegemonic intention, MUST be stopped. > > The hegemon must be stopped. > Agreed, though I am not sure about the "nationalistic" part. Multipolar, as an acknowledgement that not everyone wants the same thing, but I'd prefer we were all skeptical of our own nation and accepting of others. > > > 2) > The world is in the middle of a major war at the moment, and most > sheeple don't see this war for the future 'world order' - they see > "localised" military wars only - Libya, Iraq, Syria, etc. But the real > war is a war of wills, the war of empire - the American hegemonic > intention vs the "global south" (as Pepe Escobar calls it) and this > "global south"'s multi-polar intention. > "Major war" in the sense that this may be when the world finally realizes it is not, in fact, unipolar. Once nations start realising the US cannot keep its promises to protect them, they will start looking elsewhere and taking more responsibility for their own defense. I feel like the US's turning to Iran for help with Daesh, along with asking countries to continue to invest more in their own militaries, is a pretty strong indication that the US realizes this is happening and that many here are actually willing to accept that fact. But this is by no means a popular view here, with both Trump and Clinton promising in their own ways to "make America great again". I'd prefer "Make America part of the world for the first time." > > I say this multi-polar possibility, in the framework of nations, MICs > and governments (which predominate the world today), is the only current > hope for a balance of powers in this world, for the possibility of one > or a group of countries opposing a demonic / evil intention of another > very powerful country (right now, it is America and its endless > domination of the rest of the planet, in the future, it may be some > other wanna-be hegemon). > I imagine there are those in the US who would welcome a new cold war. They are obviously trying to create (have created) a new one. It seems like there's a pretty big risk of taking us back to a bipolar world rather than a unipolar one. > > Saddam Hussein had the gall to think he could throw off his CIA > overlords (who put him in power in the first place) and start selling > oil for Euros, ditching the US dollar. Are you kidding me? > Not sure I buy this particular theory, considering how strongly GWB pushed for the invasion from his first day of office. I think it comes down to simple revenge for the plot to assassinate his father. > > Muammar Gaddhafi was slowly building a physical gold base reached over > 120 tonnes (small by some national standards, very large by Canadian > standards) and he consistently promoted an arabic world "gold dinar" > currency. And what happened when he started to try to sell oil for > currencies other than US dollars? > > That's right, America, France and the UK piled in to bust up his party. > > The hegemon must be stopped. > Oil is obviously strategic, but I think you overestimate the US's belief in the risk of the decline of the petrodollar. I think the US convinced Saudi Arabia to keep pumping despite declining oil prices in order to weaken Russia economically while propping up its own flagging, net-oil-importing economy. This plan only works in the short term, though, and it will end up making Russia stronger in the long term, since Russians aren't idiots and will diversify. I think Putin's decision to ditch tech and focus exclusively on energy was a huge mistake that made it more vulnerable to this strategy than it would have been otherwise, but there is still time to reverse that mistake. > > > > 3) > Putin is the only true statesman on the world stage today. Now I'm sure > some will disagree with this, but if you wish to suggest the contrary to > me, please bring with you AT LEAST ONE FACT. There are first hand > reports where Americans studying him for many years from within Russia > have stated "yeah, we haven't been able to find a single instance of > Putin accepting a bribe" for just one of many examples. > I don't have a strong opinion on this, other than that it is a matter of opinion. You request facts, and you state a couple, but you actually need references. And even with references, accepting bribes is not the only form of corruption. I consider benefiting from bad things done on your behalf, even when you did not order them, to also be a form of corruption if you do not denounce them, investigate them, prosecute them, etc. > > And if you can find an actual fact that shows an evil deed done by > Putin, an example of corruption by his own hands, I will be very > surprised, and will question and research your source - so be prepared to > be absolutely certain about your purported fact. > It is always true of politicians and cops that it's very hard to point to a specific evil thing they did. After all, if you could prove it, they would have been impeached, no? > > The only fact I have that goes anywhere near this is the current Russian > legislation making its way towards law which shall require backdoors in > all encryption software sold (perhaps used?) in Russia - I hope it's not > signed into law, but if it is, it is hard to deny Russia parity with the > "glorious" West, in the face of the endless attempts to overthrow > nations both near to Russia, and in other continents, and Russia itself! > Well, if it passes, you can always hope the various western countries pass similar laws. I don't think the US is likely to succeed, but you never know. The FBI keeps hammering on this "going dark" bullshit. > > American government's intention to split Russia up the guts is > documented by America itself. Poor Soros, he is currently failing with > this particular intention, and we ought be very very grateful this is > so. > I don't think the USG has a single intention. But at best, they have seriously underestimated Russia and been incredibly disrespectful toward them. But it does seem plausible to me that there are elements in the US government who wish to pull all of Russia's old partners away to isolate them. Which seems idiotic to me. > > As many of us have now read many times, by American mouths, > "Ukraine's recent Maidan was the most blatant coup in history", and > America, mostly via the CIA, has been attacking nation after nation, > democratically elected leader after democratically elected leader in > foreign nations around the world, since WWII. America is the epitome of > a hegemonic empire nation running amok - and sadly, no one even > attempts to dispute this very sad fact... > I certainly won't attempt to dispute it. Just the part about Russia's or Putin's ambitions being particularly pure. > > 4) > With the quantity, quality and intensity of mud slinging propaganda > against USSR (since WWII), against Russia since the USSR's collapse, and > against Putin in his time, it is so very easy for us Western schooled > humans to accept that "some of the mud just MUST be true", e.g. "oh > well, this particular Western lie has been exposed, but you know, Putin > is still really bad, and Russia is just murderers and drunkards, like all > the way down like". > > No there might not be any truth to the "bad Russians, bad Putin" meme! > Maybe. > Perhaps they're fellow humans? > Certainly. > Perhaps they're in fact really fine humans, and real humans? > Politicians are never "really fine humans." But I have no doubt that Putin loves Russia and wants to make it great again. But I have similarly little doubt that Donald Trump loves America and wants to make it great again. The devil is in the details. Perhaps their current leader is pretty damn great, by any and all > international, national and local, Christian, and any other, standards? > Maybe, compared to other politicians. > > Perhaps the current collective Russian vision of a multi polar world is > in fact the best thing for all of us on this planet, given the current > despotic intentions of America and the deep hegemon (UK, France, etc - > the Western oligarchic elite power brokers)? > Multi-polar with relatively high freedom of trade and movement, yes. Bi-polar with strong nationalism and economic isolationism? No. > We can call this "Russians simply MUST be bad" meme, "the Western > apologist". I.e. the Western apologist is he or she who cannot break the > mold of the Western MSM propaganda, and so has convinced himself that > "although I have not seen an actual fact to say so, it must be true that > Putin is somehow bad, since, you know, he's in government and no one in > government can be trusted anyway, and he's, he's, he's Russian! so he > MUST be bad!" > > Read Putin's Crimea speech! > > Read Putin's recent anniversary address to the United Nations! > > In fact, READ ANY SPEECH OF THE current president of russia, > Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, aka VVP! > > Read his words! Watch him on youtube! > > Please, form your own assessment! Create an opinion for yourself, which > is not my opinion, not the MSM opinion, but is your own, personal, > opinion. Please. > > Utopian society cannot be formed instantaneously, and may never be had > generally on this old earth - we have largely despotic democracies > prevailing around the world (despotic because often selfish people > stand for election (they demonstrate their selfishness by their > actions)): > > THIS IS TODAY'S REALITY > > - we have to move forward from WHERE WE ARE NOW - what is the best way > to move forward from where we are now?!! > > Any possibility for balancing the out of control American Military > Industrial Complex hegemon, is a blessing which we ought seize with both > hands! > > Bring on the multi-polar world. Let's do our bit towards at the very > least, this proposed balance of powers in the world! > > The hegemon must be stopped... > > > > > > And now, for today's particular Western lie exposed (sadly, just another > of so many): > > ----- > Major Allegations Against Russian President Now Being Questioned (Part > I) > Putin, it turns out, was "probably" not responsible for the murder of > Alexander Litvinenko. > Dr. Julia Svetlichnaja > 2016-06-28 > > http://eastwestaccord.com/major-allegations-russian-president-now-questioned/ > (Alt: > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/major-allegations-against-russian-president-now-being-questioned-part-i/ri15230 > ) > ----- > > Thankfully, with the internet, more and more of the Western lies are > being exposed. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 17652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 7 04:38:05 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 21:38:05 +1000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160707113805.GQ30352@x220-a02> Cecilia, your words remind me that I jump the gun in my expressions, which are unnecessarily harsh. Thank you for your gentle reminder. Oda, please accept my apologies for being unnecessarily harsh, it's embarrassing to be reminded so warmly be Cecilia. Much love everyone, Zenaan On Thu, Jul 07, 2016 at 08:01:08AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 7, 2016 12:06 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 12:15:34PM -0300, Oda wrote: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 22:37:41 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 01:37:41 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/8/16, Rayzer wrote: >> Happy 4 July!!! >> The founding fathers based slavery mainly on skin color. Happily, now all colors are free to excercise their 2nd amendment rights, stay legal and have no intent to commit crimes (TX is big open carry)... regardless of how stupid they are to stand around like a dumbass in the middle of one that goes down right across the street with amped up police crawling everywhere... would be amazing if he made it back home alive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWAvPy7-0-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BFur0EHzT8 > Getting weird Word. Police brutality, murder, etc is one thing and systemic. The last two are having decently abiding protests, but this Dallas news was a huge wrong move and anti solution. Triple sad. Quad if you count the kid shot in Fresno. From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 7 19:01:32 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 02:01:32 +0000 Subject: tribalism - future world order? In-Reply-To: <20160630012256.GX3088@x220-a02> References: <20160630012256.GX3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 29, 2016, 18:31 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Tribalism. Seems to be the way of things. This article summarises the > countries that have broken up since WWII - from Africa to Europe and > Asia. > > Is North America immune? > > One day, chickens must come home to roost.. Karmicly, Americans continue > to tacitly consent to their government's meddling in so many other > countries. > > > Across the globe, 'people want to rule themselves and be themselves': > http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/after-brexit-a-trump-path-to-victory/#! > > (Alt: > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/after-brexit-trump-path-victory/ri15282 > ) > Trump is going to lose by a landslide. The American press are pretending it's not a shutout because otherwise they'd have nothing to report and people would accuse them of being biased. They are, and people accuse them of it anyway, but Trump is so unpopular that it appears inconceivable that he could have been nominated by a mainstream party, but the only reason he's even on the stage is that the Republican party is in the process of self-destruction. This is unprecedented in living memory, and certainly since the existence of television or radio and the 24 hour news cycle, so few people realize that this is what it looks like. Go read up on the election of 1872. The roles of the parties were basically reversed, with the Democrats being the dying party of the angry white man, throwing their support to the nominee of the Liberal Republicans because they hated Grant so much. Grant himself was surrounded by scandal but still managed to get the Republican nomination uncontested and then win by a landslide. I imagine he was more popular than Clinton, but then again Greeley was undoubtedly far more popular than Trump. As were the two guys who split the electoral vote after he died. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2564 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 00:06:20 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 03:06:20 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> Message-ID: > would be amazing if he made it back home alive. Alive and well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sJq-7ZcZMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owSJePQD8cs And one nutbag properly arrested... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebv-B1B3LI0 Interesting how mass adoption of internet, phones, crypto, twitters, etc is bringing multiple independant civilian news reports with video on any event from around the world in just tens of minutes to a world of viewers. Complete with a variety of independant and collective analysis and feedback into future things. And the big networks are now sourcing from that. Big change from just 5-10 years ago. That part's working. Yet we still hear "ban crypto" "censor net" "kill p2p". Sad. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 00:28:15 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 03:28:15 -0400 Subject: A Stick Figure Guide to the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) Message-ID: http://www.moserware.com/2009/09/stick-figure-guide-to-advanced.html Act 1: Once Upon a Time… Act 2: Crypto Basics Act 3: Details Act 4: Math! Epilogue From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jul 8 02:32:40 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 05:32:40 -0400 Subject: The Whistleblower Architects: surveillance, infrastructure, and freedom of information according to Cryptome Message-ID: The Whistleblower Architects: surveillance, infrastructure, and freedom of information according to Cryptome (part 1) http://archinect.com/features/article/149955321/the-whistleblower-architects-surveillance-infrastructure-and-freedom-of-information-according-to-cryptome-part-1 The Whistleblower Architects: surveillance, infrastructure, and freedom of information according to Cryptome (part 2) http://archinect.com/features/article/149956364/the-whistleblower-architects-surveillance-infrastructure-and-freedom-of-information-according-to-cryptome-part-2 From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 8 03:52:30 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 06:52:30 -0400 Subject: Why MAC Address Randomization is not Enough: An Analysis of Wi-Fi Network Discovery Mechanisms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <577F85EE.8070503@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/06/2016 05:20 PM, grarpamp wrote: > http://papers.mathyvanhoef.com/asiaccs2016.pdf Good read. Major insights into device fingerprinting. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXf4XuAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqo+MIAKqZgsAFc+t6wftJ1Yp+8YhV mAGTyqpigU/IvHlVfh4t5p3gioEwHd/C30ppJEAV+LYvGPDP2w/QlmvrVqirzT87 RDTBbZizcpj5+YRmRHw9MVREzJ5VbzXjSR3QHNbSfWG9SL5kIiNIep6IQsj7kjCl L9/N5gPDlvx9PiRsAM27sDldzsG6wYYaQyfnxpvvtP+DahDs8TijczN7hRiVQyNK ZcaKiMds0/CibAP0bJ9Cy1qo/tb9n0+jKShqwyWpmtgWzbaXIQ64llDBgmpsKkSE mrGJDoz+E0hLBdpNswdRn9mUkzg0tmoan+/rZKovhYQ0uLAsDzb1ZBQgwm6mCCw= =Lu2I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 8 04:09:17 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 07:09:17 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> References: <576ab93e.4497370a.b0274.2156@mx.google.com> <20160630121309.GA90224@synfin.org> <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/07/2016 12:58 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:18:56 +1000 Zenaan Harkness > wrote: > Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and our beloved US are all ex > colonies/administrative divisions of the british empire - the > quintessential state created by conquest. > > Even if some of the - partial - secessions were 'consensual' as far > as state agents were concerned, the new states never got any > consent from 'their' subjects. > > And even if a state is not created by literal 'foreign' conquest, > it still operates exactly like an invading army. Which is actually > worse since it's your own 'countrymen' the ones who are invading > and plundering you. > > >> and not "by conquest and violence" even though it is true that >> the majority of states ("countries") in existence were created by >> conquest and violence. >> >> New Zealand and Canada and perhaps other Commonwealth states, I >> think share similar non violent histories, though I am no >> historian, so please do your own research if important. >> >> Setting aside this historical exception to the "conquest and >> violence" rule about the creation of states, the paper gives much >> to think and debate about. By conquest, in every case listed. Ask the descendants of people who lived there before sea power in the ages of canvas and steam existed. Some have gone in for 100% compromise and accommodation in later generations, others are not quite so forgetful. Try Buffy Sainte-Marie: She's harmless, she writes country songs and was a regular on Sesame Street. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXf4ndAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq+fYH/A49ZMGEiqSxdcmLqBEnlPpO i2Mj6TCKSu3h8iEg9cXi4vL9vuWT/Z/97EBIYkHR6FeCcZJ+gO5Kln7OZntp5EyU qDNCEpKMNcNJ/fOvdVdVYFrAXoWGd7+Cvw/C48aEMQuwqBsa4ER7G2xDLFYgMdc3 NZKhmqJ1PXT0mfpjUhEMd/ZLv6CwEpaNaWyG6uGAVQ8/4RJJTWN21irj05dUmwzw UO4JWyjj9MD39sYzngQ26kVufXCTYNWoJ4bqefu7QCk9d7PxxruJMiYS1RgoIqqc 192Yj5HGFe3sJ4TgIe7fuPmSTfF3+20qFK406BgmbYoi5tOumc0BmY9VtC27cRs= =IVsj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 08:05:58 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 08:05:58 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577FC156.9040309@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 12:06 AM, grarpamp wrote: >> would be amazing if he made it back home alive. > Alive and well... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sJq-7ZcZMA > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owSJePQD8cs > > And one nutbag properly arrested... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebv-B1B3LI0 > > > Interesting how mass adoption of internet, phones, > crypto, twitters, etc is bringing multiple independant > civilian news reports with video on any event from around > the world in just tens of minutes to a world of viewers. > Complete with a variety of independant and collective > analysis and feedback into future things. > And the big networks are now sourcing from that. > Big change from just 5-10 years ago. > That part's working. > > Yet we still hear "ban crypto" "censor net" "kill p2p". > Sad. > The first time I ever saw Telnet /(the occupation of Courant Physics Institute NYU during the Cambodia/Laos invasion student strike... ALMOST got to take a fireaxe to an Arpanet machine!)/ I thought Jeez! If you could get US kids chatting with Vietnamese kids the government could NEVER indoctrinate them with the idea that those kids are "Gooks" or "Slopes". Hasn't happened quite yet, but my one joy is it has become virtually impossible to lie about wars and other state-sponsored mayhem for long. It's caused a certain 'acceleration' of the kind of wars that do get fought before the truth catches up, and in that process, the wars become more brutal, and more obviously illegal under international law, or what's left of international law... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2359 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 7 16:56:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 09:56:42 +1000 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577eac7e.8451370a.bc50d.21e1@mx.google.com> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577a9c02.5444370a.3e18f.ffff843f@mx.google.com> <00D67379-9DBB-4147-BCDE-AA3D2E6FE21B@synfin.org> <577C3A53.9010806@riseup.net> <577eac7e.8451370a.bc50d.21e1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160707235642.GR30352@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 07, 2016 at 04:27:03PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 06:18:01 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > > > > Maybe was not so happy. > > > > Double sad now. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7DhbRUvNI > > video is censored by age Some can't be downloaded, but I only watch those I can download. This way, if I've seen it, I always have a copy to upload somewhere for the next gal. From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 8 07:27:57 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 10:27:57 -0400 Subject: FBI Fails To Charge Sec. Clinton In-Reply-To: References: <577C3D25.1020908@riseup.net> Message-ID: <59B0E446-1567-42EE-A41E-64C687030AEC@synfin.org> On July 7, 2016 2:22:33 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >On 7/5/16, Rayzer wrote: >> In short, I think every fucking one of them is a criminal and >singling >> out Clinton is total tl;dr waste of reading time. > >Even on the subject issue... the FBI reports directly to >DOJ Atty Gen Lynch and DNI Clapper, which both appointed >by and report directly to the Democrat Pres Obama, >who shills for Democrat baller Hillary, leading in an election year, >married to Democrat Pres Bill, additionally investigated by both >State and DNI OIG's reporting similarly. >No real independence, conflict of interest. >Even if the best of beat cops had something to say, with that >weight over their head is probably going to watch their words. >Parsing emitted words is fun, yet yes, tldr. > >Perhaps better answer is to answer with list of who >in history has fallen from the highest echelons due >to actual legal process, not simply from political fuckups. Nixon! That crooked fuck. Who Ford pardoned, heh. Of course they are all crooked fucks.. >Or with why fucking shit up, or doing fucked up shit, >isn't illegal. All sorts of ridiculous shit is illegal if you aren't in the halls of power, or rich. -- John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 10:58:09 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 10:58:09 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> <577FC156.9040309@riseup.net> Message-ID: <577FE9B1.5060002@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 09:55 AM, grarpamp wrote: > nternational telnet / ntalk / IRC from the student computer labs / dialup... > this was a thing in the late 80's and 90's It was an ArpaNet machine a mid-size mainframe in an air conditioned room. Telnet and all the Unix comm stuff had already been developed but only a few mil companies had access to .com addresses in the early 70s to use it. They didn't toy with the machine (just toyed with the idea of taking an ax to it) but that's about the same time period I first heard about telnet, ftp, irc. Rr Ps. Ended up pissing on it and destroying the air conditioning's access to the room (blocked vents). Prolly caused a zillion dollars in damage. The perps escaped into the crowd in the building as the police entered to clear it and were never caught. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sdw at lig.net Fri Jul 8 11:08:06 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:08:06 -0700 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36cbab01-eadd-a1a7-98a8-332292da6037@lig.net> +e On 7/8/16 9:55 AM, John Newman wrote: > Hey Pravda started forwarding straight to the list ... ;) > > -- > John > > On Jul 8, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Александр > wrote: > >> Sending it from Zenaan. His ISP plays with him... >> >> ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение ---------- >> From: Mail Delivery System >> To: zen at freedbms.net >> Cc: >> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:47:51 +1000 (AEST) >> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender >> This is the mail system at host x220a02. >> >> I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not >> be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. >> >> For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. >> >> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can >> delete your own text from the attached returned message. >> >> The mail system >> >> >: host mail.bigpond.com [61.9.189.249] said: 552 >> 5.2.0 >> GCpv1t0052DXzPg01CpwnU Suspected spam message rejected. OB702 (in reply to >> end of DATA command) >> >> Final-Recipient: rfc822; cypherpunks at cpunks.org >> Action: failed >> Status: 5.2.0 >> Remote-MTA: dns; mail.bigpond.com >> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 552 5.2.0 GCpv1t0052DXzPg01CpwnU Suspected spam message >> rejected. OB702 >> >> >> ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение ---------- >> From: Zenaan Harkness > >> To: cypherpunks > >> Cc: >> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:47:48 +1000 >> Subject: walking in another's shoes >> >> >> Assertions of fact which I presume are not in dispute except perhaps by >> schooled (and not educated) North Americans: >> >> - North America/ the USA, has NO righteous authority to be the >> "policeman of the world"! >> >> - The only authority the the USA has to be "the policeman of the world" >> is the predatorial right, the predatorial authority. >> >> - The United States of America government is ethically bankrupt. >> >> - The government of the USA has been co-opted by the North American (and >> western world oligarch controlled) Military Industrial Complex. >> >> - The hegemonic intention of the government of the USA and the "neo >> conservatives" or war mongers of "the West", is a predatorial >> manifestion of the desire for empire, the desire to control the world. >> >> >> The hegemonic USA must end. >> >> >> That said, here is what might be termed a human perspective of what an >> average Russian living in Russia or perhaps the Donbas today, might >> actually be experiencing, feeling and thinking, and why (historical >> memories etc) - a somewhat moving piece for those so inclined: >> >> --- >> "Why People Never Believe That War Is Coming – Until It Is Too Late" >> >> In Russian: http://www.apn-spb.ru/opinions/article23999.htm >> In English: >> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/why-people-never-believe-war-coming-their-peril/ri15473 >> --- >> >> >> A thought: >> >> The "terrorists" in Syria, aka IS or ISIS or ISIL, go into town, >> villages and cities, forcing "conversion" or death upon those families >> who live there. >> >> The so called "terrorists" of eastern Ukraine in the Donbas/ >> Novorossia, are families fighting for their lives against the Ukraine >> state army who are coming to "subdue" them, to "encourage" them to >> accept the new Ukrainian coup government with its laws saying the >> Russian language is no longer official, and no longer allowed to be >> taught in their local schools, and many more abominations to "European >> values"! >> >> Oh, but it's all just "Russian aggression". >> >> FFS, wake up European nations! wake up North Americans! >> >> Absolutely the Ukrainian army must stop shooting and bombing its own >> people! >> >> Absolutely the eastern Ukrainian people have a right to defend >> themselves against "their own" army shooting at them, their own >> "president" Poroshenko "Donbas Children Will Sit in Cellars, “Ours” Will >> Go to School": >> >> >> Amazing Poroshenko Video: Keep Donbas Children "Holed Up" in ... >> http://russia-insider.com/en/node/1122 >> >> http://sputniknews.com/europe/20141114/1014748940.html >> >> https://dninews.com/article/doctor-liza-will-evacuate-13-children-moscow-donbass >> >> (well at least Poroshenko said it in a civilized setting - the Odessa >> Opera House.) >> >> Poroshenko: “we [in Ukraine] will have work they – [in the Donbas] >> won’t. We will have pensions – they won’t. We will care for our children >> and pensioners – they won’t. Our children will go to school, to >> kindergartens – their children will sit in cellars. They don’t know how >> to organize or do anything. This, ultimately, is how we will win this >> war.” >> >> https://southfront.org/its-like-a-textbook-for-torture-why-the-donbass-will-never-forgive-the-ukrainians/ >> (this article is too intense, I can't finish reading it) >> >> https://www.rt.com/news/163288-seven-children-wounded-unicef/ >> A boy holds a placard reading "Save Donbas children. Please stop ATO!" >> (anti-terrorists operation) in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa on >> June 1, 2014 (AFP Photo) / AFP >> (This one's a bit easier to read.) >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_situation_during_the_war_in_Donbass >> >> http://www.phillip-butler.com/when-will-we-the-people-stop-the-killing-in-donbass/ >> "Someone explain to me so I can understand. How is it that Russia is >> somehow negligent in influencing pro-Russian separatists in east >> Ukraine, when the Kiev junta’s forces are the ones shelling civilians >> daily? Does Germany’s Angela Merkel see something the world cannot? God >> only knows." >> >> >> All hail Ukraine! >> Home of the direct second and third generation Nazis! >> >> >> >> We, the collective "West" are an absolute disgrace on this planet!!!!! >> >> So YES if I were the USA president I would do better! The only real >> challenge is doing better as USA president, and stopping yourself from >> being killed for cleaning up the endless shit that is North American >> foreign policy! >> >> >> >> "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. -- Stephen D. Williams sdw at lig.net stephendwilliams at gmail.com LinkedIn: http://sdw.st/in V:650-450-UNIX (8649) V:866.SDW.UNIX V:703.371.9362 F:703.995.0407 AIM:sdw Skype:StephenDWilliams Yahoo:sdwlignet Resume: http://sdw.st/gres Personal: http://sdw.st facebook.com/sdwlig twitter.com/scienteer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12078 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 11:15:12 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:15:12 -0700 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <1BDE8FBB-B5C5-4007-A1BA-34A624FB7CC4@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> <1BDE8FBB-B5C5-4007-A1BA-34A624FB7CC4@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577FEDB0.1060606@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 09:53 AM, John Newman wrote: >> On Jul 7, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Rayzer wrote: >> To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood >> >> "Don't criticize, analyze." >> >> If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, don't talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists." >> > Big Bill... one of I think only two Americans buried in the Kremlin necropolis. He fucking split when out on appeal during that 20s red scare. > > -- > John > > He was rounded up in the Palmer Red Raids first... Many European immigrants also fled about that time, which essentially destroyed the IWW which was mostly EU anarchist immigrants like Joe Hill. Where I live there was one old American Wobbly left when I got here in the mid-70s... Tom Scribner, the Musical Saw Player "Tom became a legendary musical saw player; he appeared on an album with Neil Young, and also played with George Harrison on the Larry Hosford album "Crosswords." He appeared on a Charles Kuralt "On the Road" special, and was on various other television broadcasts. He was also a featured person in the documentary file "The Wobblies" due to his active participation in formation of the IWW labor union." http://www.scribnerfamilies.org/Images6.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 11:23:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:23:42 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 10:46 AM, M373 wrote: > They bombed him. This is the first incident in the US that I am aware of. > > "10:20 a.m. > > A robotics expert says Dallas police appear to be the first law > enforcement agency to use a robot to kill. > > Peter W. Singer, of the New America Foundation, says the killing of a > suspect in Thursday night's fatal shooting of five police officers is > the first instance of which he's aware of a robot being used lethally by > police. > > Dallas Police Chief David Brown told reporters that after hours of > failed negotiations and in order to not put any officers in harm's way, > his department used a robot to deliver a bomb that killed the suspect. > Brown said they saw no other option. > > Singer said in an email Friday that when he was researching his 2009 > book "Wired for War" a U.S. soldier told him troops in Iraq sometimes > used MARCbot surveillance robots against insurgents." > > http://www.wrdw.com/content/news/The-Latest-Police-1-officer-killed-3-injured-in-Dallas-385952871.html > > Local PD used one to kill a guy who was already dead about 8/9 years ago. A cop saw a wanted fleeing felon in a van in a parking lot, approached the door, gunfire exchanged and he retreated. An hour or two later in the 'standoff' they sent out a robot to place a concussion grenade under the van and detonated it. They found out the perp had been mortally wounded in the initial exchange of gunfire and was dead when they blew him up. They've also used the robot to blow up a couple of Geotag gamer caches around town ROTF! Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 01:25:57 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 11:25:57 +0300 Subject: A Stick Figure Guide to the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2016-07-08 10:28 GMT+03:00 grarpamp : > http://www.moserware.com/2009/09/stick-figure-guide-to-advanced.html > Act 1: Once Upon a Time… > Act 2: Crypto Basics > Act 3: Details > Act 4: Math! > Epilogue > > Very nice. Thanks grarpamp! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 970 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 7 19:29:19 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:29:19 +1000 Subject: tribalism - future world order? In-Reply-To: References: <20160630012256.GX3088@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160708022919.GS30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 02:01:32AM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Wed, Jun 29, 2016, 18:31 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > Tribalism. Seems to be the way of things. This article summarises the > > countries that have broken up since WWII - from Africa to Europe and > > Asia. > > > > Is North America immune? > > > > One day, chickens must come home to roost.. Karmicly, Americans continue > > to tacitly consent to their government's meddling in so many other > > countries. > > > > > > Across the globe, 'people want to rule themselves and be themselves': > > http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/after-brexit-a-trump-path-to-victory/#! > > > > (Alt: > > > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/after-brexit-trump-path-victory/ri15282 > > ) > > > > Trump is going to lose by a landslide. The American press are pretending > it's not a shutout because otherwise they'd have nothing to report and > people would accuse them of being biased. They are, and people accuse them > of it anyway, but Trump is so unpopular that it appears inconceivable that > he could have been nominated by a mainstream party, but the only reason > he's even on the stage is that the Republican party is in the process of > self-destruction. This is unprecedented in living memory, and certainly > since the existence of television or radio and the 24 hour news cycle, so > few people realize that this is what it looks like. > > Go read up on the election of 1872. The roles of the parties were basically > reversed, with the Democrats being the dying party of the angry white man, > throwing their support to the nominee of the Liberal Republicans because > they hated Grant so much. Grant himself was surrounded by scandal but still > managed to get the Republican nomination uncontested and then win by a > landslide. I imagine he was more popular than Clinton, but then again > Greeley was undoubtedly far more popular than Trump. As were the two guys > who split the electoral vote after he died. It's sort of interesting what's happening - at the moment a hung parliament in our Australian federal elections just gone - they're still counting postal votes and discussing possible alliances to determine if they can create a "Governable coalition" - ironic given that in our first election around 100 years ago, there were no parties, and the government operated just fine. Italy seems to be having similar "problems". In the age of the US demoncratic empire, it's interesting times. The Elites' Panic at the Revolt Against Globalism http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/07/03/the-revolt-against-globalism/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/revolt-against-globalism/ri15439 ) From M373 at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 10:46:24 2016 From: M373 at riseup.net (M373) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:46:24 -0500 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot Message-ID: They bombed him. This is the first incident in the US that I am aware of. "10:20 a.m. A robotics expert says Dallas police appear to be the first law enforcement agency to use a robot to kill. Peter W. Singer, of the New America Foundation, says the killing of a suspect in Thursday night's fatal shooting of five police officers is the first instance of which he's aware of a robot being used lethally by police. Dallas Police Chief David Brown told reporters that after hours of failed negotiations and in order to not put any officers in harm's way, his department used a robot to deliver a bomb that killed the suspect. Brown said they saw no other option. Singer said in an email Friday that when he was researching his 2009 book "Wired for War" a U.S. soldier told him troops in Iraq sometimes used MARCbot surveillance robots against insurgents." http://www.wrdw.com/content/news/The-Latest-Police-1-officer-killed-3-injured-in-Dallas-385952871.html From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 8 09:53:02 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:53:02 -0400 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> <20160707025450.GF30352@x220-a02> <577E7303.9050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1BDE8FBB-B5C5-4007-A1BA-34A624FB7CC4@synfin.org> > On Jul 7, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Rayzer wrote: > To knock off Joe Hill's last words to Bill Bill Haywood > > "Don't criticize, analyze." > > If you have a prob with somone's POV Zenaan, task them about it, don't talk meaningless smack like "Implying your suggestions are fact is a disgrace to anarchists." > Big Bill... one of I think only two Americans buried in the Kremlin necropolis. He fucking split when out on appeal during that 20s red scare. -- John From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 09:55:47 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:55:47 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <577FC156.9040309@riseup.net> References: <20160704131813.GA852@sivokote.iziade.m$> <577F26AF.4080507@riseup.net> <577FC156.9040309@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/8/16, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/08/2016 12:06 AM, grarpamp wrote: >> And one nutbag properly arrested... >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebv-B1B3LI0 As with the other, seems this guy just chose a nutty outfit, thus making the interaction quite remarkable. > The first time I ever saw Telnet /(the occupation of Courant Physics > Institute NYU during the Cambodia/Laos invasion student strike... ALMOST > got to take a fireaxe to an Arpanet machine!)/ I thought Jeez! If you > could get US kids chatting with Vietnamese kids the government could International telnet / ntalk / IRC from the student computer labs / dialup... this was a thing in the late 80's and 90's, way before AIM / ICQ / facebook. Not encrypted, not really anonymized, probably not even tapped, and personal, as opposed being any part at all to news media with their wire. Though of course western europe and a few select institutions outside were the only ones reasonably well connected and free and english speaking on the other end... germany, england, finns, brit colonies. Scanned pictures then, and now video transcends written language, just a mouse click away. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 10:42:14 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 13:42:14 -0400 Subject: Bitcoin Halving Less Than 24hr Away Message-ID: http://bitcoinclock.com/ http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=2 http://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd Last chance to buy early... steady market demand pressure by influx of fiats (net after miner to power plant passthrough), and increase in market float and party holdings, resulting in price stablization since Jan 2015 and rise since Sep 2015 gonna keep pressing that much harder up after the half. Shit boards below... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=57.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=7.0 From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 10:45:04 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 13:45:04 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] Putin goes full Stasi; wants encryption keys for the Internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Long live p2p? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:15:46 -0700 Subject: [Cryptography] Putin goes full Stasi; wants encryption keys for the Internet To: cryptography at metzdowd.com FYI -- https://meduza.io/en/news/2016/07/07/putin-gives-federal-security-agents-two-weeks-to-produce-encryption-keys-for-the-internet Putin gives federal security agents two weeks to produce 'encryption keys' for the Internet 13:28, 7 july 2016 After signing controversial anti-terrorist legislation earlier today, President Putin ordered the Federal Security Service (the FSB, the post-Soviet successor to the KGB) to produce encryption keys to decrypt all data on the Internet. According to the executive order, the FSB has two weeks to do it. Responsibility for carrying out Putin's instructions falls on Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the FSB. The new "anti-terrorist" laws require all "organizers of information distribution" that add "additional coding" to transmitted electronic messages to provide the FSB with any information necessary to decrypt those messages. It's still unclear what information exactly online resources are expected to turn over, given that all data on the Internet is encoded, one way or another, and in many instances encryption keys for encrypted information simply don't exist. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2016/06/27/the-duma-s-new-big-brother-legislation-kills-russia-s-internet-companies-and-hurts-ordinary-web-users-here-s-how The Duma's new 'Big-Brother' legislation kills Russia's Internet companies and hurts ordinary Web users. Here's how. 16:06, 27 june 2016 Last week, lawmakers in the State Duma approved what Edward Snowden has called "Russia's new Big-Brother law." A major part of this legislation creates new regulations on the Internet. According to the amendments, telecom providers and the "organizers of information distribution" will need to store copies of nearly all information they transmit. They can't delete this information until it's six months old. This applies to recordings of phone calls, as well as the contents of text messages. And they have to keep copies of metadata of these communications (the information about when and between whom messages occurred, but not the actual content of the messages) for a whopping three years. Companies will additionally be required to help Russia's Federal Security Service (the modern-day successor to the Soviet KGB) decrypt all the data. The largest Internet companies in Russia--Mail.ru and Yandex--oppose the bill, as do the industry groups the Russian Association for Electronic Communications and the Regional Center for Internet Technologies, and even the "Communications and IT" working group within the Russian government. Meduza looks at why this legislation isn't just impractical, but will also harm ordinary Internet users and Internet companies alike. It's expensive The legislation requires telecom providers and "organizers of information distribution" (which could be literally any website on the Internet, as determined by Russia's state censor) to store all data sent by its users or visitors. This is a gigantic amount of data: Russia would need every data-storage manufacturer in the world working for seven years straight, before the country had the infrastructure necessary to accommodate so much storage and processing. And there's another problem: the electrical grid in central Russia simply isn't powerful enough to fuel the still-unbuilt data centers that will be required by the new legislation. The equipment and materials needed to build these data centers, moreover, isn't produced in Russia, so companies will be forced to buy imported goods. Experts say the costs of building this infrastructure will be more than 5 trillion rubles (roughly $77 billion). For comparison, the federal government's total revenues in 2015 totaled 13.7 trillion rubles (about $210 billion). The legislation says implementing the new statutes won't require any state subsidies, but that's untrue: at the very least, government agencies will need to upgrade the country's data cables (given that Russia's existing network of cables is too weak to cope with the higher volume of transmitted information created by the new regulations). The government also risks losing income from Russia's Internet companies, which currently pay taxes on their profits. The new legislation could make many businesses unprofitable, after they're forced to spend tens if not millions of rubles on new data-storage equipment. It's dumb The new legislation requires all "organizers of information distribution" that add "additional coding" to transmitted electronic messages to provide the Federal Security Service (FSB) with any information necessary to decrypt those messages. What lawmakers seem not to understand is that virtually all information transmitted over the Internet is "encoded." Any text or image sent over email using Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is in something called Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) format. Will "organizers" need to send the FSB information about how MIME works? If we're talking about encryption, we're talking about almost half the traffic on the Internet--and the volume is only growing. In most cases, incidentally, the "organizers of information distribution" don't have the keys to decrypt their own data. (That is precisely how Internet privacy works.) For example, it's not even technically possible to store encryption keys when using the HTTPS protocol, which is used by an enormous number of websites, including the one you're reading now, and even Gosuslugi.ru, the Russian government's official portal where citizens can contact the state about public services. In other words, the legislation bans the state's own website for contact with ordinary citizens. How this legislation is supposed to regulate financial systems is also unclear. The SWIFT network that links the world's financial institutions doesn't use Russian cryptographic algorithms, but nearly all the world's banks--including banks in Russia--use SWIFT. The world's payment systems, moreover, are required to comply with the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCI DSS), a proprietary information security standard that doesn't disclose its encryption keys. In order to comply with the legislation, programmers will need to come up with new encryption methods that must simultaneously work with existing encryption methods, given that foreign companies won't support these new technologies (which don't currently exist, anyway). But even if Russia manages to create some kind of center to house all encryption keys, the concentration of data would make the center extremely attractive, and therefore very vulnerable, to hackers. By breaking into this hypothetical data center, after all, it would be possible to decrypt any message sent inside Russia. The new legislation also violates Russian citizens' right to the privacy of correspondence, which is enshrined in Article 23 of the Constitution. In order to deprive Russians of this right, police need a court order. The "Yarovaya legislation," however, grants law-enforcement agencies access to everyone's messages without any judicial oversight. Today, most messaging apps use encryption. In fact, encryption is one of their most important competitive advantages, as users often seek out the safest and most secure communications available. The new law will make any Russian online service less competitive. It's unclear what foreign companies will do. Some might simply walk away from the Russian market. This text is based on statements by the Russian Internet companies Yandex and Mail.ru (which are considered "organizers of information distribution"), the industry groups the Russian Association for Electronic Communications and the Regional Center for Internet Technologies (which position themselves as links between the state and the Internet), and the "Communications and IT" working group within the Russian government. --------------- Theresa May, James Comey, Cyrus Vance, et al, can't wait to go full Stasi, as well. 'Putin-in-the-middle' attacks, anyone? _______________________________________________ The cryptography mailing list cryptography at metzdowd.com http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jul 8 08:56:00 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (Mr Nobody) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 15:56:00 +0000 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <577FCD39.3000608@mail-on.us> I believe that the best option is to be aware that everything that you're sending is systematically scanned by machine learning algorithms, stored and sent to whichever has the money/ power to convince your email provider. This applies to gmail or any other company. If your corncern is that your mail are only read by the person you intend to, you could perfectly use gmail with gpg and be sure enough that your messages won't be read until the advent of quantum computing. Protonmail is doing this basically from a webmail, so you don't have to worry about managing your keys, *only* trust that they encrypt well your private key. But if your level of tinfoil hat-edness is high enough you probably shouldn't be using email at all, but other protocols with perfect forward secrecy, and mechanisms that you can make sure that the messages you send can be securely erased. In an increase of paranoia, Whatsapp/Signal/Jabber+OTR+Tor are good choices. All these options use a client-server model in which you have to "somehow" that they don't leak the metadata to national agencies or such, even though they are not able to obtain the plain texts of your messages in a foreseeable future. You could run your own Jabber server, get a certificate, and route the messages through tor yourself, but it obviously takes time. Pond, which has been discussed many times in this list, is the closest you can get to email, without being email. Difficult to categorize but worth looking are Bitmessage, which is "like" mail, but uses bitcoin's blockchain protocol, and Ricochet, which send messages by running hidden services. It does not provide encryption beyond the transport layer provided by tor. Then, it comes the turn of serverless systems that are somewhat less known. Your messages get to their destination in a similar fashion that you get files through torrent. There are promising projects such as Tox which isn't a messaging app in itself, but a protocol (famous clients exist such as qTox or uTox), Retroshare, Ring (found by one of the creators of Skype) etc. At the end it depends mainly on your needs, and how nuts you are. Hope this helps. John Newman: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > Do you use gmail for your main / private / important emails, in > addition to list correspondence? > > Or do you consider the internet so pwned that it doesnt matter? > (although, why make it easier for them..) > > I'm just curious... I started getting squeamish about it myself a > good few years back, before snowden, just because it seems like an > obviously bad idea to house all my correspondence at the HQ of one > of the biggest corporations in the world, for them to play with, mine, > and cross-index for targeted advertising as they see fit.. > > Setting up your own mail server > (postfix+spamassasin+...clamav+..whatever) isn't really that hard, > although you gotta pay a hosting fee, depending on how you decide > to do it. And I guess there are other alternatives to gmail > that are much better in this area, although I'm still inclined > to use my own thing.. > > -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 06:07:03 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:07:03 +0300 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! Message-ID: Sending it from Zenaan. His ISP plays with him... ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение ---------- From: Mail Delivery System To: zen at freedbms.net Cc: Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:47:51 +1000 (AEST) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender This is the mail system at host x220a02. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system : host mail.bigpond.com[61.9.189.249] said: 552 5.2.0 GCpv1t0052DXzPg01CpwnU Suspected spam message rejected. OB702 (in reply to end of DATA command) Final-Recipient: rfc822; cypherpunks at cpunks.org Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; mail.bigpond.com Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 552 5.2.0 GCpv1t0052DXzPg01CpwnU Suspected spam message rejected. OB702 ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение ---------- From: Zenaan Harkness To: cypherpunks Cc: Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:47:48 +1000 Subject: walking in another's shoes Assertions of fact which I presume are not in dispute except perhaps by schooled (and not educated) North Americans: - North America/ the USA, has NO righteous authority to be the "policeman of the world"! - The only authority the the USA has to be "the policeman of the world" is the predatorial right, the predatorial authority. - The United States of America government is ethically bankrupt. - The government of the USA has been co-opted by the North American (and western world oligarch controlled) Military Industrial Complex. - The hegemonic intention of the government of the USA and the "neo conservatives" or war mongers of "the West", is a predatorial manifestion of the desire for empire, the desire to control the world. The hegemonic USA must end. That said, here is what might be termed a human perspective of what an average Russian living in Russia or perhaps the Donbas today, might actually be experiencing, feeling and thinking, and why (historical memories etc) - a somewhat moving piece for those so inclined: --- "Why People Never Believe That War Is Coming – Until It Is Too Late" In Russian: http://www.apn-spb.ru/opinions/article23999.htm In English: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/why-people-never-believe-war-coming-their-peril/ri15473 --- A thought: The "terrorists" in Syria, aka IS or ISIS or ISIL, go into town, villages and cities, forcing "conversion" or death upon those families who live there. The so called "terrorists" of eastern Ukraine in the Donbas/ Novorossia, are families fighting for their lives against the Ukraine state army who are coming to "subdue" them, to "encourage" them to accept the new Ukrainian coup government with its laws saying the Russian language is no longer official, and no longer allowed to be taught in their local schools, and many more abominations to "European values"! Oh, but it's all just "Russian aggression". FFS, wake up European nations! wake up North Americans! Absolutely the Ukrainian army must stop shooting and bombing its own people! Absolutely the eastern Ukrainian people have a right to defend themselves against "their own" army shooting at them, their own "president" Poroshenko "Donbas Children Will Sit in Cellars, “Ours” Will Go to School": Amazing Poroshenko Video: Keep Donbas Children "Holed Up" in ... http://russia-insider.com/en/node/1122 http://sputniknews.com/europe/20141114/1014748940.html https://dninews.com/article/doctor-liza-will-evacuate-13-children-moscow-donbass (well at least Poroshenko said it in a civilized setting - the Odessa Opera House.) Poroshenko: “we [in Ukraine] will have work they – [in the Donbas] won’t. We will have pensions – they won’t. We will care for our children and pensioners – they won’t. Our children will go to school, to kindergartens – their children will sit in cellars. They don’t know how to organize or do anything. This, ultimately, is how we will win this war.” https://southfront.org/its-like-a-textbook-for-torture-why-the-donbass-will-never-forgive-the-ukrainians/ (this article is too intense, I can't finish reading it) https://www.rt.com/news/163288-seven-children-wounded-unicef/ A boy holds a placard reading "Save Donbas children. Please stop ATO!" (anti-terrorists operation) in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa on June 1, 2014 (AFP Photo) / AFP (This one's a bit easier to read.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_situation_during_the_war_in_Donbass http://www.phillip-butler.com/when-will-we-the-people-stop-the-killing-in-donbass/ "Someone explain to me so I can understand. How is it that Russia is somehow negligent in influencing pro-Russian separatists in east Ukraine, when the Kiev junta’s forces are the ones shelling civilians daily? Does Germany’s Angela Merkel see something the world cannot? God only knows." All hail Ukraine! Home of the direct second and third generation Nazis! We, the collective "West" are an absolute disgrace on this planet!!!!! So YES if I were the USA president I would do better! The only real challenge is doing better as USA president, and stopping yourself from being killed for cleaning up the endless shit that is North American foreign policy! "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 13:23:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 17:23:16 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> References: <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:12:50 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > So, there is precedent for creation of a new state (country) by > secession and referendum, rather than conquest and/ or war. No because the colonies were created by invasion/conquest. Australia is not a 'new' state. It's just a rebranded part of the british empire. And isn't the australian state still subservient to london, both 'legally' and as a matter of fact? But even more important, the australian state is the biggest criminal gang in the region known as 'australia'. The people who call themselves the gov't of australia are an invading army. > > This precedent, although benefitting mainly just the "landed gentry" > (land owners), is still something we can view with significant regard > as a better way than civil war. > > Today's Ukraine shows us a classic case of the two examples: Crimea > managed to get support from Russia for a referendum and voted almost > unanimously for secession, which Russia duly recognised. The Donbass > however, were not granted this option and instead must continue to > fight for their lives against the Ukro-Nazis from the West who would > rather kill ever Russian speaking Ukrainian they can get their hands > on - the ongoing war there is an absolute disgrace to Europe, France, > Germany, UK and the rest of the Western regime's cabal who supported > the overthrow of Ukraine (for the n'th time), and refused to demand > that the new (Nazi-fied) government stop killing its own citizens in > the East who want at least a federalization (like we have in > Australia, and I believe is not too dissimilar to the North American > United States). > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM meme > "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". They did. > > That's called bullshit word manipulation! If "illegal annexation" is > all it was, then the citizens of Crimea are massively grateful for > that "illegal annexation" and the citizens of the Donbass/ Novorossia > sadly pine for the day they are not longer shelled, bombed and shot > on a daily basis! > > If only Victoria Nuland's "fuck the EU" had the right intention behind > it... the EU, like the US, is absolutely disgraceful! From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 18:31:44 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:31:44 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57805400.9050004@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 03:45 PM, Jack Liddy wrote: > Philadelphia PD used bombs, dropped from a helicopter, against members of the MOVE group. 10+ people died, and the > fire, which firefighters were ordered to ignore, destroyed 60+ houses. > MOVE! As I pointed out in my twitter discussions of what just happened in Dallas, referring to the 'back to africa' nature of the org's FB page being in conflict with armed revolutionary groups (b/c the New BPP and it's useful idiot clones like this are quite confused)., MOVE!'s destruction (along with the city block thanks to a fire caused by a satchel bomb PPD ILLEGALLY acquired from the FBI) was commanded because of an adamant refusal to comply with citations regarding an illegal compost pile and keeping livestock (chickens I believe) in city limits. "Some notes on the MOVE! organization & MOVE9 in Response to a comparison with the Symbionese Liberation Army": http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85529775934 Wherein it's noted Cinque was a product of a MKUltra shrink @ Atascadero. He was an LASD public disorder unit operative before they 'regrooved' him... More. MOVE! generally: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85426158239 Also see this wayback machine cache of the Huey P. Newton Foundation's web page that discusses everything POLICE PROVOCATEUR about the New (so-called) Black Panther Party. which has (or had) a very active chapter in Dallas that's been in the news over the last few years for arms violations etc. http://web.archive.org/web/20140106051514/http://blackpanther.org/FAQs.html Rr "You'll never silence the voice of the voiceless" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 18:32:50 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:32:50 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 06:24 PM, jim bell wrote: > > > *From:* Rayzer > > >"They've also used the robot to blow up a couple of Geotag gamer caches > >around town ROTF!" > > I do hope they remembered to leave something of equal or greater value > than the stuff they blew up! > Jim Bell > > > No, and city park workers were left to fill in the holes... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 8 17:40:41 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 20:40:41 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> References: <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57804809.9090606@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/08/2016 07:45 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: >>> Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM >>> meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". >> >> They did. > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > "legal"? In the sense that "legal" means compliant with orders imposed by the the State, "legal secession" is a logical absurdity: One does not gain immunity from a sovereign State's enforcement powers by submitting to them, nor independence by obeying its dictates. If the Sovereign stops being a Sovereign by abandoning the enforcement powers that define State sovereignty, that's different - but the order to "do your own thing" remains just a noise. Word games: To the extent that they control people's minds, they can be even more "real" than physical bullets, bars and chains - because they control the application of these physical tools. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXgEgJAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqacIH/A2f8ASKpKCjuIsRcY2TqION wzHxs5rK0xEPbWutTKcCFL1I2KYfrHMl4fX+z0/BJkF6O8CD1luUGpJSKfLL+02u Tzu+TQqANCWKafrQm2QW/IlUzwSI5Kwp9JRU/DVrF+G0zu6EO7yEPRwp9wBShZgm ySB053YpJlo9x5kD0YyAOgFDA673M7qeQml14nkJSPN2GKfeuTbaKuV8deH9nT5l iy6vTZBoIvKrOQVxqRb7mfjLI+xX+VaUfsVcgsfqsXdP/o37Z6qbdhsRflyG3i/T tAIMT0oPKSOv7VNdO2kRnV/rFQ+qc5bbmIlrR/2mab9NtOubmrS9Dkvw5bipXak= =ol6c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 17:24:24 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 21:24:24 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> References: <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM meme > > > "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > > > > They did. > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > "legal"? People who want to join russia, join russia. People who don't want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last kind of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 05:12:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:12:50 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> References: <57757c53.890b370a.7ac99.ffffe7bd@mx.google.com> <4447ea7d-8cc5-253d-5373-a48aae35af2f@lig.net> <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> > > Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and our beloved US are all ex > > colonies/administrative divisions of the british empire - the > > quintessential state created by conquest. > By conquest, in every case listed. Ask the descendants of people who > lived there before sea power in the ages of canvas and steam existed. > Some have gone in for 100% compromise and accommodation in later > generations, others are not quite so forgetful. One land mass can be the place for more than one change in national boundaries. The point is, America had a revolutionary war to "free" themselves from Great Britain, whereas by the time the colonies of Australasia decided to secede, the Crown allowed for most powers going to the new country Australia, without any civil war, just a referendum. So, there is precedent for creation of a new state (country) by secession and referendum, rather than conquest and/ or war. This precedent, although benefitting mainly just the "landed gentry" (land owners), is still something we can view with significant regard as a better way than civil war. Today's Ukraine shows us a classic case of the two examples: Crimea managed to get support from Russia for a referendum and voted almost unanimously for secession, which Russia duly recognised. The Donbass however, were not granted this option and instead must continue to fight for their lives against the Ukro-Nazis from the West who would rather kill ever Russian speaking Ukrainian they can get their hands on - the ongoing war there is an absolute disgrace to Europe, France, Germany, UK and the rest of the Western regime's cabal who supported the overthrow of Ukraine (for the n'th time), and refused to demand that the new (Nazi-fied) government stop killing its own citizens in the East who want at least a federalization (like we have in Australia, and I believe is not too dissimilar to the North American United States). Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". That's called bullshit word manipulation! If "illegal annexation" is all it was, then the citizens of Crimea are massively grateful for that "illegal annexation" and the citizens of the Donbass/ Novorossia sadly pine for the day they are not longer shelled, bombed and shot on a daily basis! If only Victoria Nuland's "fuck the EU" had the right intention behind it... the EU, like the US, is absolutely disgraceful! From jackeliddy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 15:45:56 2016 From: jackeliddy at yahoo.com (Jack Liddy) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:45:56 +0000 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> Philadelphia PD used bombs, dropped from a helicopter, against members of the MOVE group. 10+ people died, and the fire, which firefighters were ordered to ignore, destroyed 60+ houses. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 18:47:33 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:47:33 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> References: <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:50:40 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 09:24:24PM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM > > > > > meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > > > > > > > > They did. > > > > > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > > > "legal"? > > > > People who want to join russia, join russia. People who > > don't want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed > > by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last > > kind of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. > > So then, why was the referendum in Crimea and the apparrently > overwhelming "want" of the people of Crimea to secede from Ukraine > and "join Russia", somehow "illegal"? Was there an option to not join any state? Or even create an 'indepenent' state? Rhetorical question of course... Plus, 97% voted "yes"? That's very hard to believe. Plus, crimea was annexed by the russian empire in ~1780. That looks like a precendent of sorts... From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 05:56:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:56:31 +1000 Subject: walking in another's shoes Message-ID: Assertions of fact which I presume are not in dispute except perhaps by schooled (and not educated) North Americans: - North America/ the USA, has NO righteous authority to be the "policeman of the world"! - The only authority the the USA has to be "the policeman of the world" is the predatorial right, the predatorial authority. - The United States of America government is ethically bankrupt. - The government of the USA has been co-opted by the North American (and western world oligarch controlled) Military Industrial Complex. - The hegemonic intention of the government of the USA and the "neo conservatives" or war mongers of "the West", is a predatorial manifestion of the desire for empire, the desire to control the world. The hegemonic USA must end. That said, here is what might be termed a human perspective of what an average Russian living in Russia or perhaps the Donbas today, might actually be experiencing, feeling and thinking, and why (historical memories etc) - a somewhat moving piece for those so inclined: --- "Why People Never Believe That War Is Coming – Until It Is Too Late" In Russian: http://www.apn-spb.ru/opinions/article23999.htm In English: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/why-people-never-believe-war-coming-their-peril/ri15473 --- A thought: The "terrorists" in Syria, aka IS or ISIS or ISIL, go into town, villages and cities, forcing "conversion" or death upon those families who live there. The so called "terrorists" of eastern Ukraine in the Donbas/ Novorossia, are families fighting for their lives against the Ukraine state army who are coming to "subdue" them, to "encourage" them to accept the new Ukrainian coup government with its laws saying the Russian language is no longer official, and no longer allowed to be taught in their local schools, and many more abominations to "European values"! Oh, but it's all just "Russian aggression". FFS, wake up European nations! wake up North Americans! Absolutely the Ukrainian army must stop shooting and bombing its own people! Absolutely the eastern Ukrainian people have a right to defend themselves against "their own" army shooting at them, their own "president" Poroshenko "Donbas Children Will Sit in Cellars, “Ours” Will Go to School": Amazing Poroshenko Video: Keep Donbas Children "Holed Up" in ... http://russia-insider.com/en/node/1122 http://sputniknews.com/europe/20141114/1014748940.html https://dninews.com/article/doctor-liza-will-evacuate-13-children-moscow-donbass (well at least Poroshenko said it in a civilized setting - the Odessa Opera House.) Poroshenko: “we [in Ukraine] will have work they – [in the Donbas] won’t. We will have pensions – they won’t. We will care for our children and pensioners – they won’t. Our children will go to school, to kindergartens – their children will sit in cellars. They don’t know how to organize or do anything. This, ultimately, is how we will win this war.” https://southfront.org/its-like-a-textbook-for-torture-why-the-donbass-will-never-forgive-the-ukrainians/ (this article is too intense, I can't finish reading it) https://www.rt.com/news/163288-seven-children-wounded-unicef/ A boy holds a placard reading "Save Donbas children. Please stop ATO!" (anti-terrorists operation) in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa on June 1, 2014 (AFP Photo) / AFP (This one's a bit easier to read.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_situation_during_the_war_in_Donbass http://www.phillip-butler.com/when-will-we-the-people-stop-the-killing-in-donbass/ "Someone explain to me so I can understand. How is it that Russia is somehow negligent in influencing pro-Russian separatists in east Ukraine, when the Kiev junta’s forces are the ones shelling civilians daily? Does Germany’s Angela Merkel see something the world cannot? God only knows." All hail Ukraine! We, the collective "West" are an absolute disgrace on this planet!!!!! So YES if I were the USA president I would do better! The only real challenge is doing better as USA president, and stopping yourself from being killed for cleaning up the endless shit that is North American foreign policy! "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 19:00:03 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:00:03 -0300 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:45:56 +0000 Jack Liddy wrote: > Philadelphia PD used bombs, dropped from a helicopter, against > members of the MOVE group. 10+ people died, and the fire, which > firefighters were ordered to ignore, destroyed 60+ houses. That's the price you pay to live in a civilized, first-world community. If the good guys didn't do that, the terrorists would take over. Just ask Stephen Williams. He'll explain it. From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 8 22:03:00 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:03:00 -0600 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> On 07/08/2016 08:36 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 10:47:33PM -0300, juan wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:50:40 +1000 >> Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 09:24:24PM -0300, juan wrote: >>>> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 >>>> Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: >>>>>>> Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM >>>>>>> meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". >>>>>> >>>>>> They did. >>>>> >>>>> How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as >>>>> "legal"? >>>> >>>> People who want to join russia, join russia. People who >>>> don't want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed >>>> by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last >>>> kind of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. >>> >>> So then, why was the referendum in Crimea and the apparrently >>> overwhelming "want" of the people of Crimea to secede from Ukraine >>> and "join Russia", somehow "illegal"? >> >> >> Was there an option to not join any state? > > I suspect not, but in the context, I think that would literally have > been suicide. Or endless civil war as we see since then (the last two > years) in eastern Ukraine. I find it hard to imagine how anarchist societies could develop in our currently state-dominated world. Anarchist societies have survived through isolation, and some still do. But how does that work in places under active state contention? Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less equally powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In science fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new technology that eliminates states' power monopoly. Maybe it'll be the Singularity. >> Or even create an >> 'indepenent' state? Rhetorical question of course... > > Supported by themselves? > > Again, I think contextually, they sought the support of mother Russia - > we humans crave the perceived (correctly or incorrectly) safety of our > 'parent' nation state. See subject. > > >> Plus, 97% voted "yes"? That's very hard to believe. Yes. But Russia has been exporting ethnic Russians to Crimea for centuries. And for other ethnic groups, voting against joining Russia would have indeed been voting for civil war, on the minority side. You can't vote your conscience when there's a gun to your head. > May be so, and some reports that the Crimean parliament reps were > 'encouraged' to vote for secession, but that's a miniscule percentage of > the population. > > The Crimean population, who now have overwhelming gratitude for the > "polite green men" who kept them safe from the Nazi Banderites who > wanted to bring their "peace train" to Crimea - I assume you've seen > -that- particular documentary - the voice of the Crimean average person > appears to be strong, consistent, and certainly not "coerced" in any way > by 'mother Russia'. As I see it, they were in genuine fear for their > lives, families, homes and stability of "state", and as such it is no > wonder to me that they voted overwhelmingly for secession from the new > 'illegitimate' at that point in time "sovereign Ukraine". They tried > (asked Russia for support for such a referendum) numerous times in the > past, and were rejected every prior time. That's just another gang, the one that NATO helped build. And sure, they also have grievances going back centuries. > In fact, in the actual context of that point in time, it is in hindsight > inconceivable that the people of Crimea would -not- have voted > significantly for the protection of union with Russia - most of them are > Russian after all, Ukraine was a very artificial 'state' created by the > USSR at the height of its empire, when it would have been almost > impossible to imagine the breakup of the USSR. > > And that internal war of the new Ukraine govt against its own people in > the Donbass, still goes on, and Europe still turns a blind eye, not > wanting to legitimize "federalist" secession tendencies in Europe, and > irrationally wanting to keep 'pressure' on Russia for its multi polar > intentions. Shows how 'democratic' the "West" is... > > >> Plus, crimea was annexed by the russian empire in ~1780. That >> looks like a precendent of sorts... > > Don't know that history yet - but we're talking here of course about the > recent annexation, not that original one. Notwithstanding, there is > interesting history for what it's worth: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Empire > " > Count Alexander Bezborodko, then a close advisor to the Empress, wrote > in his diary that Russia was "forced" to annex Crimea: > > The Porte has not kept good faith from the very beginning. Their > primary goal has been to deprive the Crimeans of independence. They > banished the legal khan and replaced him with the thief Devlet Giray. > They consistently refused to evacuate the Taman. They made numerous > perfidious attempts to introduce rebellion in the Crimea against the > legitimate Khan Şahin Giray (Sahin Giray). All of these efforts did not > bring us to declare war... …The Porte never ceased to drink in each drop > of revolt among the Tatars... …Our only wish has been to bring peace to > Crimea…and we were finally forced by the Turks to annex the area.[14] > " Look, Russian governments have always needed an ocean port that's not frozen for much of the year. The rest of it is just bullshit. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 06:12:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:12:46 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160708131246.GA30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 04:07:03PM +0300, Александр wrote: > Sending it from Zenaan. His ISP plays with him... Thank you Alex - sorry list, I didn't get my "managed to send using Gmail" to Alex quick enough. Which goes to show an actual benefit of gmail - bypassing my ISP's filtering... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 20:27:38 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:27:38 -0300 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57806ea0.422ded0a.3ef62.ffff892a@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:39:38 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 11:00:03PM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:45:56 +0000 > > Jack Liddy wrote: > > > > > Philadelphia PD used bombs, dropped from a helicopter, against > > > members of the MOVE group. 10+ people died, and the fire, which > > > firefighters were ordered to ignore, destroyed 60+ houses. > > > > > > That's the price you pay to live in a civilized, first-world > > community. If the good guys didn't do that, the terrorists > > would take over. > > > > Just ask Stephen Williams. He'll explain it. > > :) > > Or ask Poroshenko, Tony Blair, Clinton, most Australian politicians > or... or putin or any other psycho from the russian government. From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 18:24:09 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 01:24:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Rayzer >"They've also used the robot to blow up a couple of Geotag gamer caches >around town ROTF!" I do hope they remembered to leave something of equal or greater value than the stuff they blew up!          Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From demonfighter at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 01:27:10 2016 From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:27:10 -0400 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 21:46:08 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:46:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Facebook Messenger adds end-to-end encryption. In-Reply-To: <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/08/messenger-adds-end-to-end-encryption/ Quote:"Facebook Messenger wants to be your primary messaging app. As people become more and more concerned about security, being the best messaging app means being the most secure. That’s why Facebook is finally adding an option for users to encrypt their chats in Messenger.Messenger will begin to offer an end-to-end encryption feature to a limited test group of users today. It’s a security option that’s been a long time coming for Facebook, which has considered making end-to-end encryption available for several months. The so-called “secret conversations” debuted today will be only visible to the sender and the reader, which means Facebook can’t enable some of the chatbot and payment features that are normally a part of the Messenger experience. However, end-to-end encryption boxes out law enforcement and even Facebook itself from reading users’ chats, ensuring that their conversations remain private.Messenger has also taken steps to make sure that chats remain secure, even if a user’s device gets lost or stolen. In secret conversations, Messenger will allow users to set an expiration date for a message so that it won’t be visible in the conversation forever. Once the time runs out, the message will vanish from the devices of all users in the conversation. Facebook released technical details about its implementation of secret conversations in a white paper (PDF).Secret conversation mode will only be available on iOS and Android, not in Messenger.com, Facebook chat, or the desktop Messenger app — at least for now. Facebook’s vice president of messaging products David Marcus told TechCrunch that the addition of end-to-end encryption is intended to help Messenger become everyone’s go-to app."[end of portion quoted]                     Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4770 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rtomek at ceti.pl Fri Jul 8 20:09:23 2016 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 05:09:23 +0200 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 04:07:03PM +0300, Александр wrote: > Sending it from Zenaan. His ISP plays with him... > > ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение ---------- > From: Mail Delivery System > To: zen at freedbms.net > Cc: [...] > All hail Ukraine! > Home of the direct second and third generation Nazis! Ugh. I tried to google who else Russians may call a nazi, because it is so hard to believe there is only one such country in a whole big world. But gog could not find anything interesting, other than this: [ http://time.com/3545855/russia-ukraine-war-history/ ] Russians Rewrite History to Slur Ukraine Over War Simon Shuster / Moscow @shustry Oct. 29, 2014 (quotations start here) Vladimir Putin has turned the idea of fascism into a political tool, and now Russian historians are adapting to the Kremlin line The trio of German historians, as well as a handful of their colleagues from Eastern Europe, flew into Moscow last week for what they thought would be a conference on the history of Nazi war crimes. It was the fifth in a series of international summits held every other year since 2006, first in Berlin and Cologne, then in Slovakia and Belarus, to keep alive the memory of the towns and villages destroyed during World War II. But the German co-chairman of the conference, Sven Borsche, began to feel that something was amiss in Moscow as soon as he met his Russian hosts. “All they wanted to talk about was the conflict in Ukraine,” he says. Even without the simultaneous translations provided for the foreign guests, they would have gotten the political message. The photographs shown by several of the Russian speakers put the atrocities of the Nazi SS right alongside pictures from the current war in eastern Ukraine. There is not much difference, the Russian historians suggested, between the actions of the Ukrainian military in its war against separatist rebels and the atrocities that Hitler’s forces committed during World War II. (...) This rhetoric—calling it an argument would overstate its relation to facts—has recently come into vogue among Russian historians. Under their interpretation of history, the struggle that began with the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 continues for Russia today, in a direct line through the generations, with the conflict in Ukraine. That is the connection President Vladimir Putin first presented to the Russian people in March, when he sent his troops to invade and annex the Ukrainian region of Crimea. The Russian-speaking residents of that peninsula, he said in a speech on the day of the annexation, need Russia’s protection from Ukraine’s new leaders, whom he referred to as “neo-Nazis and anti-Semites.” Ukraine’s ensuing war to prevent Russia from seizing any more of its territory has likewise been branded a fascist campaign against ethnic Russians. (...) As these speeches were translated for the foreign delegates, including guests from the Czech Republic and Slovakia, their faces turned gradually from confusion to disgust. Joerg Morre, the director of Berlin’s Karlhorst Museum, which focuses on the history of the eastern front in World War II, began to fidget in his seat. “I mean, to show the photographs of the Second World War and then switch in the next slide to what’s happening in Ukraine,” Morre told me during a break in the conference, “No way is that right. Now way!” Borsche, the co-chairman, agreed with him: “It’s polemical!” he said. As the conference drew to a close, the two of them decided to voice their objections. Morre, springing from his seat, took hold of the microphone and told the hall that he did not agree with the final declaration of the conference, which had been written by its Russian organizers. Specifically, he took issue with the clause that declared, “Our generation is facing the task to deter [the] revival of Fascism and Nazism,” a thinly veiled reference to Ukraine, the German delegates felt. “It has become clear that we have different views on what fascism means today,” Morre told the hall in nearly perfect Russian. “Your point of view is not mine. So I call for this part of the resolution to be removed,” he added. “I do not want to sign it, and I am not the only one.” After some noisy debate, the delegates agreed to put the matter to a vote. Practically all of the foreign participants raised their hands in favor of deleting the reference to a “revival” of European fascism. All of the Russian participants, including a large group of high school students who had been herded into the auditorium about 15 minutes earlier, had the clear majority in voting to leave the text of the declaration unchanged. So the hosts of the conference won out—a small but telling victory for the cause of Russian revisionism. Outside the hall, Borsche seemed at a loss for words as he waited in the coat-check line. He had served as one of the initiators of the conference and its co-chairman, flying in from Germany for the occasion to discuss a shared history of suffering during World War II. But he says he had no idea that his Russian colleagues would use it as a chance to promote their political agenda against Ukraine. “That’s not correct,” he told me. If there is some lesson to be learned from the experience, it’s a familiar one, he said: “The more people are convinced of their own opinion, the more they become estranged from other opinions. That’s a real difficult problem.” And as Russia sets out to redefine what Nazism means, it is a problem that Western historians will somehow have to face. (quotations end here) [...] > "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. I can only imagine when people find out about this, they will run like hares and mad cows straight to non-western countries. Spread the word, man. Also, buy your tickets while you can, before the mad crowd prevents you from running away from this horrible place. Even better, once you buy tickets, use them asap, go to your destination, meet your dreams. Do not forget to drop few words to the list, so other lost souls know what to expect outside. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 02:54:32 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 05:54:32 -0400 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <57805400.9050004@riseup.net> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805400.9050004@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/8/16, Rayzer wrote: > http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85529775934 > MOVE! generally: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85426158239 > http://web.archive.org/web/20140106051514/http://blackpanther.org/FAQs.html There seems to be a fair blowback brewing over the MURDER of the Dallas guy by sending in a killbot while both sides were sortof just stalemated and chilling out for a while. Should have just pitched camp and waited for him to give up, try to become some more kind of an hero, or die of dehydration. From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jul 9 02:58:20 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:58:20 -0400 Subject: Facebook Messenger adds end-to-end encryption. In-Reply-To: References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: End-to-end encryption is reliable only if it begins and ends without use of computers and networked transceivers and devices, operating systems and systems administration, electromagnetism and algorithms, ISPs and packets. Each of these are vulnerabilities, not unlike Tor, anonymization, VPN, OTR, any method widely promoted and recommended. The more widely known and adopted the less like to be secure. So Facebook fails the same way Crypto-AG failed, and those developed in between. Cybersecurity is on a roll, given extra boost by Snowden releases (limited as they are by his "do no harm to the USA") and his continuing boosterism from protection of the other world policeman out to make sure no encryption is invulnerable. Currently all states are promoting limited cybersecurity in various see-through couture but never disclosing what the states use for hiding most-secret comsec. Snowden, among many in the ballooning cybersec field, never advocates full disclosure, and in that ancient way, protect their state-sanctioned privileges, in RU as in 5-Eyes. Facebook is regulated by the USG and through it other nations so not likely to place its survival above that of customers. But it certainly uses the language of customer protection pretty much identical to all the 74 amici which jumped on board Apple's grandstanding fight against USG, settled secretly. Official secrecy continues to be the primary vulnerability of cybersecurity and public comsec. No nation can survive without it, nor can any state-regulated entity. Without top secret code word privilege nobody is secure. And those with that privilege willingly harm the populace by lying and cheating and disinforming. Snowden fits that, probably entrapped to do so by his media handlers who dare not challenge the states which privilege media. At 01:37 AM 7/9/2016, you wrote: >2016-07-09 7:46 GMT+03:00 jim bell ><jdb10987 at yahoo.com>: >https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/08/messenger-adds-end-to-end-encryption/ > >Quote: >"Facebook Messenger wants to be your primary >messaging app. As people become more and more >concerned about security, being the best >messaging app means being the most secure. >That’s why Facebook is finally adding an >option for users to encrypt their chats in Messenger. >Messenger will begin to offer an end-to-end >encryption feature to a limited test group of >users today. It’s a security option that’s >been a long time coming for Facebook, which has >considered making end-to-end encryption >available for several months. The so-called >“secret conversations” debuted today will be >only visible to the sender and the reader, which >means Facebook can’t enable some of the >chatbot and payment features that are normally a >part of the Messenger experience. However, >end-to-end encryption boxes out law enforcement >and even Facebook itself from reading users’ >chats, ensuring that their conversations remain private. >Messenger has also taken steps to make sure that >chats remain secure, even if a user’s device >gets lost or stolen. In secret conversations, >Messenger will allow users to set an expiration >date for a message so that it won’t be visible >in the conversation forever. Once the time runs >out, the message will vanish from the devices of >all users in the conversation. Facebook released >technical details about its implementation of >secret conversations in a white paper >(PDF). >Secret conversation mode will only be available >on iOS and Android, not in Messenger.com, >Facebook chat, or the desktop Messenger app — at >least for now. Facebook’s vicce president of >messaging products David Marcus told TechCrunch >that the addition of end-to-end encryption is >intended to help Messenger become everyone’s go-to app." >[end of portion quoted] >           Jim Bell > > >Jim, everyone, >is it just me, or.... but when i see/hear the >word "facebook" i get vomiting reflex and can't force myself reading further? > >I'm not talking about using/not using it >(facebook/their new secUUUre app), but talking >about trust. A total lack of trust toward them. >No matter what they write, say or "invent". > >Reminds me a saying on Russian towards a well known enemy which states, >"you can kill me, but i won't believe you". > >___ > >* the same refers to google too, of course. I >use it, for example, 'cause i *have to* from >various of reasons, but do i trust them? NO WAY. >Do i use it for sensitive stuff? NO WAY. And >their "new encryption" or "goody goody >statements" won't buy my trust after all the >revelations! And i don't need "new" revelations to keep that in my mind. > >But.... am i the only one? Do we need a Snowden >explosion every 3-5 years to keep in mind that >we are being fucked up all the time by the >googles-facebooks and alike? -> thus NOT to >trust them, no matter how they "sing"? >I hope that we don't. >. From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 22:16:33 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:16:33 +0300 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> Message-ID: 2016-07-09 6:09 GMT+03:00 Tomasz Rola : > Russians Rewrite History Wonderful. Just wonderful. The fucken west, the us-europe evil bundle, rewrite the History in every imaginable aspect (just pick up the WW2 and the Ukraine/Iraq/... example), but guess who rewrites the History? *It's the main VICTIM of their lies - the bloody Russians!* So, not only that they do this vile crime, rewriting the whole History, but they blame THE MAIN VICTIM of their lies in their own sin. Yeah.....! This is all what is west about. LIES. LIES. LIES. Hail West. Hail Lies. Hail Hatred. Hail or maybe.... shall we say *Fuck West. Fuck Lies. Fuck Hatred. And Fuck Those Who Spread It!* *Just FUCK!* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1362 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 22:37:50 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:37:50 +0300 Subject: Facebook Messenger adds end-to-end encryption. In-Reply-To: <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 2016-07-09 7:46 GMT+03:00 jim bell : > https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/08/messenger-adds-end-to-end-encryption/ > > Quote: > "Facebook Messenger wants to be your primary messaging app. As people > become more and more concerned about security, being the best messaging app > means being the most secure. That’s why Facebook is finally adding an > option for users to encrypt their chats in Messenger. > Messenger will begin to offer an end-to-end encryption feature to a > limited test group of users today. It’s a security option that’s been a > long time coming for Facebook, which has considered making end-to-end > encryption available for several months. The so-called “secret > conversations” debuted today will be only visible to the sender and the > reader, which means Facebook can’t enable some of the chatbot and payment > features that are normally a part of the Messenger experience. However, > end-to-end encryption boxes out law enforcement and even Facebook itself > from reading users’ chats, ensuring that their conversations remain private. > Messenger has also taken steps to make sure that chats remain secure, even > if a user’s device gets lost or stolen. In secret conversations, Messenger > will allow users to set an expiration date for a message so that it won’t > be visible in the conversation forever. Once the time runs out, the message > will vanish from the devices of all users in the conversation. Facebook > released technical details about its implementation of secret conversations > in a white paper (PDF > > ). > Secret conversation mode will only be available on iOS and Android, not in > Messenger.com, Facebook chat, or the desktop Messenger app — at least for > now. Facebook’s vice president of messaging products David Marcus told > TechCrunch that the addition of end-to-end encryption is intended to help > Messenger become everyone’s go-to app." > [end of portion quoted] > Jim Bell > > > Jim, everyone, is it just me, or.... but when i see/hear the word "facebook" i get vomiting reflex and can't force myself reading further? I'm not talking about using/not using it (facebook/their new secUUUre app), but talking about trust. *A total lack of trust toward them.* No matter what they write, say or "invent". Reminds me a saying on Russian towards a well known enemy which states, "you can kill me, but i won't believe you". ___ * the same refers to google too, of course. I use it, for example, 'cause i *have to* from various of reasons, but do i trust them? NO WAY. Do i use it for sensitive stuff? NO WAY. And their "new encryption" or "goody goody statements" won't buy my trust after all the revelations! And i don't need "new" revelations to keep that in my mind. But.... am i the only one? Do we need a Snowden explosion every 3-5 years to keep in mind that we are being fucked up all the time by the googles-facebooks and alike? -> thus NOT to trust them, no matter how they "sing"? I hope that we don't. . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5719 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 9 08:45:47 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 08:45:47 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805400.9050004@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57811C2B.4000904@riseup.net> On 07/09/2016 02:54 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/8/16, Rayzer wrote: >> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85529775934 >> MOVE! generally: http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/85426158239 >> http://web.archive.org/web/20140106051514/http://blackpanther.org/FAQs.html > There seems to be a fair blowback brewing over the MURDER > of the Dallas guy by sending in a killbot while both sides were > sortof just stalemated and chilling out for a while. > Should have just pitched camp and waited for him to give up, > try to become some more kind of an hero, or die of dehydration. > You know... If they can't prove necessity you could ALMOST get a murder charge worked up which is normally impossible. You can't convict cops for murder because: "The law that authorizes federal criminal civil rights charges against police officers says that in a homicide case ... a police officer can be guilty only if he not only violated the victim’s Fourth Amendment right to be free from excessive force, ***but the officer also “willfully” violated that right***". “Law enforcement actions based on fear, panic, misperception or even poor judgment do not constitute willful conduct prosecutable under the statute." http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/104858503374 Blowing up a suspect instead of waiting them out COULD be construed to be a wilful act. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 16:45:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> References: <577d60c8.4941370a.464a1.ffffdd65@mx.google.com> <3a269553-0320-7bb3-adb8-765d43e2cbdc@lig.net> <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM meme > > "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > > They did. How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as "legal"? From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 17:11:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:11:53 +1000 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> Alex Jones says the media should not ignore Putin's warnings of World War 3 buildup: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/alex-jones-freaks-out-wake-listen-putin-our-media-lying-about-war-russia-video/ri15504 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMMscY7Btus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvvCvACQ-gE How is a sleepwalking nation to stop sleepwalking to the MIC pied piper? From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 9 10:20:47 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:20:47 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5781326F.1000206@riseup.net> On 07/09/2016 09:53 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Isn't it weird so many shooters are military guys? > > The Dallas shooter [1] "was an Army Reserve Afghan War > veteran". > > In 2009 [2] "Hasan was a United States Army Medical > Corps psychiatrist who admitted to the shootings" > > IIRC the person who recently shot gays in a bar was > a security guard in respected c0rp0ration. > > Some kind of "disposable hero" syndrome? > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers&oldid=729053396 > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nidal_Hasan&oldid=726572811 > You understated G4s' role. They ARE a mercenary recruiter with quick reaction teams stationed in South Sudan and elsewhere. They also provide armed security, executive protection teams, etc. The military's already trained you to kill without compunction and never deprogram you. Whatever rage resides in you from that, or other experiences, is easily steerable. When people are confused or angry they DO NOT make correctly informed decision. Easy prey for government spooks. Just in... Local action just as I was reading The Hill's article: "America's anger boils over" which is quite hot. In the eleven minutes after I posted the following, it had *336* new comments: "Right now, outside this cafe' there are 3 police cars & 6 cops from 3 different agencies because of a car without a back plate belonging to a local disabled vet. They know who the car belongs to. He has coffee here every day. He's an amputee who gets meds. They think he's a drug dealer because he's kind to the homeless and outcasts andbuys them coffee, gives them spare change... and the missing plate gave the police, the semi-deputized 'rangers' (muni codes only) and a private patrol company that's totally un-deputized, a chance to harass him. I told one of the 'rangers' (A city councilmember's son) to be careful... There's people out there who like to kill cops. Normally I wouldn't say anything of the sort in my normal dealings with them but f*ck them. If the act like pigs MAYBE we SHOULD make bacon." Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3268 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Sat Jul 9 07:38:58 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:38:58 -0400 Subject: Facebook Messenger adds end-to-end encryption. In-Reply-To: <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> <526917253.102739.1468039568540.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57810C82.4080308@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/09/2016 12:46 AM, jim bell wrote: > https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/08/messenger-adds-end-to-end-encryption / > > Quote: "Facebook Messenger wants to be your primary messaging app. > As people become more and more concerned about security, being the > best messaging app means being the most secure. That’s why Facebook > is finally adding an option for users to encrypt their chats in > Messenger. So in brief, The Facebook wants to assure that that The Facebook, its DARPA investors, and whoever has broken into a given user's computer have /exclusive/ access to that user's "private" comms. - From a marketing perspective, as long as whatever they deploy is "good enough" that it can not be easily demonstrated useless, mission accomplished. Not that it matters much: Some people believe that The Facebook is an appropriate venue for business and "serious" personal communications, some know better, and as this is a question of basic competence it is unlikely that a cryptographic fig leaf will change the behavior of more than 1% of users' behavior for the worse. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXgQyCAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqEXYH/3v1aATqGHkY5zKWqaGRse7O 7YjSC7lmqtq4HKVQ1JmyaF0LBys99QsRx9GPJ8k9GD48h2bph4piQHOHL0B+Yytu O03G3UcUyHa3Zg0nBg8hCvKOlUm+d6c+9vKWoVVjpgNw3RmLmf21I1msSVxU89Vm OxWjfIDsEpzeRvabqKKxqKjC1nFJVJVVGeKu9SbkToE/Cs9XbQWqdCUSD+6I+hhK xtC9Mzxeisvhl8jM1YdpN0txNeT3GYBVojn9PqugL06WiH9t07w1+NRCd2lxspYz Ylk7QMmZYYyjUqg00GG7Tmod9t4xoa6J9qVEYMSPUhffILeO4kcZ1S+lOcORzUs= =soZ1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 17:50:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:50:40 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> References: <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 09:24:24PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM meme > > > > "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > > > > > > They did. > > > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > > "legal"? > > People who want to join russia, join russia. People who don't > want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed > by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last kind > of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. So then, why was the referendum in Crimea and the apparrently overwhelming "want" of the people of Crimea to secede from Ukraine and "join Russia", somehow "illegal"? From jnn at synfin.org Sat Jul 9 07:53:58 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 10:53:58 -0400 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> Message-ID: <48FFD6A9-1640-456F-B19B-8FE15163F7D4@synfin.org> On July 9, 2016 1:16:33 AM EDT, "Александр" wrote: >2016-07-09 6:09 GMT+03:00 Tomasz Rola : > >> Russians Rewrite History > > >Wonderful. Just wonderful. The fucken west, the us-europe evil bundle, >rewrite the History in every imaginable aspect (just pick up the WW2 >and >the Ukraine/Iraq/... example), >but guess who rewrites the History? >*It's the main VICTIM of their lies - the bloody Russians!* >So, not only that they do this vile crime, rewriting the whole History, >but >they blame THE MAIN VICTIM of their lies in their own sin. >Yeah.....! This is all what is west about. LIES. LIES. LIES. > >Hail West. Hail Lies. Hail Hatred. Hail > >or maybe.... shall we say >*Fuck West. Fuck Lies. Fuck Hatred. And Fuck Those Who Spread It!* >*Just FUCK!* Yes, fuck em! Fuck ALL nation-state propaganda and lies! Including, but by no means limited to, mouthpieces for Putin! -- John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 18:04:07 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 11:04:07 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57804809.9090606@pilobilus.net> References: <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <57804809.9090606@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160709010407.GG30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 08:40:41PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 07/08/2016 07:45 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > >>> Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM > >>> meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > >> > >> They did. > > > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > > "legal"? > > In the sense that "legal" means compliant with orders imposed by the > the State, "legal secession" is a logical absurdity: One does not > gain immunity from a sovereign State's enforcement powers by > submitting to them, nor independence by obeying its dictates. Ack. > If the Sovereign stops being a Sovereign by abandoning the enforcement > powers that define State sovereignty, that's different - but the order > to "do your own thing" remains just a noise. Considering George Friedman, president of STRATFOR's “really the most blatant coup in history.” ( http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/merkel-urged-temper-natos-belligerence/ri15482 ), does the new/coup government of the "sovereign" state of Ukraine, continue "legally" as the same sovereign? Once the "democratically" ('normal' by OSCE assessments) elected pre-"Maidan coup" government of Ukraine was overthrown, non democratically, by United States of America government intentions and actions, does the "sovereign" "state of Ukraine" even exist any more, legally? Is it fair to say that the people of Crimea, voting at referendum, witnessing/ hearing of busloads of fellow Russian-speakers being murdered, brutalised and shot, essentially an internal civil war taking place, is it fair to say that when they (after the 5th or so request over many years) finally got consent and support from 'mother' Russia to help them run a referendum without being further shot, brutalised etc as was happening in other parts of Ukraine, they run their referendum, and then we say it was "just noise" or "illegal"? Such a position I just don't get and obviously cannot agree with... > Word games: To the extent that they control people's minds, they can > be even more "real" than physical bullets, bars and chains - because > they control the application of these physical tools. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 18:38:14 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 11:38:14 +1000 Subject: The heart of a Scotsman - George Galloway, The Chilcot Report: What Next? Message-ID: <20160709013814.GI30352@x220-a02> The wheels of "democracy" when it works, when someone with heart, patience, tenacity and a strong sense of justice (a mighty lot to ask, so we can be very grateful for this man of principal) such as George Galloway, is an event worth witnessing, given how rare such events are. George Galloway you have been vindicated. Thank you for speaking so clearly. "Mr Blair: This Is For Iraq (Video)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNmy5-2va8 (Youtube link also here: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/mr-blair-iraq/ri15485 ) From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 19:36:08 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:36:08 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 10:47:33PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:50:40 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 09:24:24PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 > > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > > > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM > > > > > > meme "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". > > > > > > > > > > They did. > > > > > > > > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as > > > > "legal"? > > > > > > People who want to join russia, join russia. People who > > > don't want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed > > > by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last > > > kind of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. > > > > So then, why was the referendum in Crimea and the apparrently > > overwhelming "want" of the people of Crimea to secede from Ukraine > > and "join Russia", somehow "illegal"? > > > Was there an option to not join any state? I suspect not, but in the context, I think that would literally have been suicide. Or endless civil war as we see since then (the last two years) in eastern Ukraine. > Or even create an > 'indepenent' state? Rhetorical question of course... Supported by themselves? Again, I think contextually, they sought the support of mother Russia - we humans crave the perceived (correctly or incorrectly) safety of our 'parent' nation state. See subject. > Plus, 97% voted "yes"? That's very hard to believe. May be so, and some reports that the Crimean parliament reps were 'encouraged' to vote for secession, but that's a miniscule percentage of the population. The Crimean population, who now have overwhelming gratitude for the "polite green men" who kept them safe from the Nazi Banderites who wanted to bring their "peace train" to Crimea - I assume you've seen -that- particular documentary - the voice of the Crimean average person appears to be strong, consistent, and certainly not "coerced" in any way by 'mother Russia'. As I see it, they were in genuine fear for their lives, families, homes and stability of "state", and as such it is no wonder to me that they voted overwhelmingly for secession from the new 'illegitimate' at that point in time "sovereign Ukraine". They tried (asked Russia for support for such a referendum) numerous times in the past, and were rejected every prior time. In fact, in the actual context of that point in time, it is in hindsight inconceivable that the people of Crimea would -not- have voted significantly for the protection of union with Russia - most of them are Russian after all, Ukraine was a very artificial 'state' created by the USSR at the height of its empire, when it would have been almost impossible to imagine the breakup of the USSR. And that internal war of the new Ukraine govt against its own people in the Donbass, still goes on, and Europe still turns a blind eye, not wanting to legitimize "federalist" secession tendencies in Europe, and irrationally wanting to keep 'pressure' on Russia for its multi polar intentions. Shows how 'democratic' the "West" is... > Plus, crimea was annexed by the russian empire in ~1780. That > looks like a precendent of sorts... Don't know that history yet - but we're talking here of course about the recent annexation, not that original one. Notwithstanding, there is interesting history for what it's worth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Empire " Count Alexander Bezborodko, then a close advisor to the Empress, wrote in his diary that Russia was "forced" to annex Crimea: The Porte has not kept good faith from the very beginning. Their primary goal has been to deprive the Crimeans of independence. They banished the legal khan and replaced him with the thief Devlet Giray. They consistently refused to evacuate the Taman. They made numerous perfidious attempts to introduce rebellion in the Crimea against the legitimate Khan Şahin Giray (Sahin Giray). All of these efforts did not bring us to declare war... …The Porte never ceased to drink in each drop of revolt among the Tatars... …Our only wish has been to bring peace to Crimea…and we were finally forced by the Turks to annex the area.[14] " From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 19:39:38 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:39:38 +1000 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <801d11b3-abea-93ef-b172-bbe14504587b@yahoo.com> <57805a19.4da8370a.fae5f.7b28@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160709023938.GK30352@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 11:00:03PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:45:56 +0000 > Jack Liddy wrote: > > > Philadelphia PD used bombs, dropped from a helicopter, against > > members of the MOVE group. 10+ people died, and the fire, which > > firefighters were ordered to ignore, destroyed 60+ houses. > > > That's the price you pay to live in a civilized, first-world > community. If the good guys didn't do that, the terrorists > would take over. > > Just ask Stephen Williams. He'll explain it. :) Or ask Poroshenko, Tony Blair, Clinton, most Australian politicians or... From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 8 23:21:03 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:21:03 +1000 Subject: The heart of a Scotsman - George Galloway, The Chilcot Report: What Next? In-Reply-To: <20160709013814.GI30352@x220-a02> References: <20160709013814.GI30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160709062103.GL30352@x220-a02> The success of the "failure of democracy" - the more appropriate way to spin this one: http://theduran.com/chilcott-inquiry-report-britains-role-iraq-war-irrelevance/ "An Inquiry report that needs 12 volumes and an executive summary reported to be 200 pages long to answer a question the answer to which is obvious cannot be other than an exercise in obfuscation." From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 12:29:22 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:29:22 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57815002.4666370a.3908e.4186@mx.google.com> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:03:00 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > >> Was there an option to not join any state? > > > > I suspect not, but in the context, I think that would literally have > > been suicide. Or endless civil war as we see since then (the last > > two years) in eastern Ukraine. > > I find it hard to imagine how anarchist societies could develop in our > currently state-dominated world. Well, the statists can simply leave the anarchists alone. Sure it's unlikely, but it's simple. But my point was that the referendum wasn't especially pristine. The soundest pro russian argument here may be that the russians didn't raze crimea to the ground...which is something the NATO humanitarians were more likely to do. > Anarchist societies have survived > through isolation, and some still do. But how does that work in places > under active state contention? > > Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less equally > powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In science > fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new technology > that eliminates states' power monopoly. What technologies? The only 'technology' I can imagine making a difference would be some sort of physical shield that would make it impossible for individuals to be physically attacked. > Maybe it'll be the > Singularity. The sigularity is singular bullshit. If anything it seems likely to replace(i. e. kill) humanity with a bunch of motherfucking psychos like kurzweil and the rest of master-race 'elite' lunatics. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 12:37:48 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:37:48 -0300 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578151fb.042f370a.4cba.34c6@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:27:10 -0400 Steve Furlong wrote: > > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! > > ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. I say 2+2 = 4, true I say 2+2 = 3, false Oops. The 'medium' has nothing to do with the truth of the content. So yeah, it's quite legitimate to criticize western scumbags using 'their' medium. As a matter of fact, trying to fault an argument because of the medium used to convey it looks pretty much like, you know...a fallacy. From sdw at lig.net Sat Jul 9 16:45:52 2016 From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:45:52 -0700 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> On 7/9/16 1:27 AM, Steve Furlong wrote: > > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! > > ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. And empowered by freedom and free speech invented and protected by The West, and the US in particular. It seems likely that the degree of free speech in other Western countries came about, was extended, and/or was protected because of the US First Amendment. There was some existing precedent, and some countries have had various restrictions, but the impenetrable First Amendment provided the most firm model. Every aspect of interpretation had to be fought about, especially including encryption and encryption technology, sometimes with kind of funny results. The fact that electronic source code was restricted while the same code printed in a book couldn't be restricted at all kind of broke some arguments. Everything about the Internet could have been worse, and would have been had it evolved any other way. It's not just because it started in the US, but because of the people involved, the peculiar restrictions of DARPA funding, think tank goals, and the telecommunications monopoly that ATT had at the time, along with their inability to believe that packet switching had any value over circuit switching. We are very lucky, and we owe a lot to a small set of people who made many great choices. By contrast: http://gawker.com/putin-is-literally-breaking-the-internet-1783293408 The US, and much of the West, fought all this out 20 years ago. Let's expand this idea, which I posted on the 6th: > > From that, you can derive a number of reasons to support and/or be aware of and/or use the techniques from cypherpunks. For > instance, you could look at the US as being largely based on free-speech-anarchism, as per the First Amendment. Based on that, > and perhaps borrowing from the Second, Fourth Amendments and other sources, you could easily justify an effort like cypherpunks. > In the 90's, Cypherpunks, individually and as a whole, were super important to avoid things going the wrong way in the US. It was > important for clear-headed arguments to be made, legal and other challenges mounted in just the right way, and education and code > spread widely and evolved quickly. Paranoid babble would not have helped, and is still not helping. Cypherpunks could only have survived and thrived and made a difference by being predominantly based in the US. On the other hand, it was helped along and strengthened by international participation, which probably tipped the balance in a number of cases. The balance of powers, freedom vs. Federal / police control, public vs. private, etc. all tend to come down on the side of the state and against the individual or group if a country doesn't have airtight constitutional protections. For instance, while France is generally a nicely free country, it had been illegal to use encryption in a lot of cases in France until fairly recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography_law#France Encryption and privacy is like tax law: You should understand what your rights are, where the lines are, and you're within your rights to go right up to the line. And, when something isn't right, you should be able to explain why precisely and work to fix it. We keep knocking down laws that, if they survived, would become templates for other countries. A few things that slipped through have proved that. Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. In many ways, the US is always imperfect, always in a squabble or fight about rights and limits, land grabs or monopoly and healthy commerce; that's part of the design of the system and what enables it to generally work and improve long term. Things tend to go in the right direction eventually, catching up with or adopting best practices from elsewhere. It is a model of stable instability, noise that causes eventual escape from disoptimal minima / maxima. A lot of other systems are similar, but seeing some of them go bad, I wonder how many are missing the complete model of balance of powers needed for more permanent stability and resiliency. The quality of people involved can keep any system working somewhat for a while, or conversely they can break a fairly good system. The interesting measure, and the real measure of comparison, is whether a system is elastic and resilient enough to handle extreme torque, failing in little ways gracefully while never failing overall, and still keep going. One apparent exception, by many people's standards, is guns where historical decisions have a long throw. As yet another resiliency strategy, a kind of defense in depth at the state level, it may or may not still have some of the same effect. We'll just have to solve the problem of effective prevention of mental illness (and very bad meme sets) while suffering some attrition on that front. Solving those is hard, but extremely important and valuable. Determined people don't need guns to kill other people, so I'm skeptical that gun control helps much. We're entering the age of building anything on demand starting only with information and/or imagination, so the impulse of controlling the existence of things is going to rapidly become less effective. Seems like we're almost ready to seriously work on maintaining the quality of mental health and emotional health and culture. This book, perused last night, seems to be on the right track, exploring that direction: Natural Security: A Darwinian Approach to a Dangerous World sdw -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7172 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1238 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 12:49:02 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:49:02 -0300 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5781549c.8604370a.ec0a2.05a0@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:53:57 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > Isn't it weird so many shooters are military guys? Not really? The military are trained, murdering psychos... > The Dallas shooter [1] "was an Army Reserve Afghan War > veteran". ...although in this case the guy did a lot of good. > > > In 2009 [2] "Hasan was a United States Army Medical > Corps psychiatrist who admitted to the shootings" He finished off a few americunt soldiers? More good. > > IIRC the person who recently shot gays in a bar was > a security guard in respected c0rp0ration. > > Some kind of "disposable hero" syndrome? Sort of I guess. Though they were no heroes from the establishment point of view... > > > [1] > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers&oldid=729053396 > [2] > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nidal_Hasan&oldid=726572811 From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 9 10:30:41 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:30:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Mirimir >I find it hard to imagine how anarchist societies could develop in our >currently state-dominated world. Anarchist societies have survived >through isolation, and some still do. But how does that work in places >under active state contention? >Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less equally >powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In science >fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new technology >that eliminates states' power monopoly. Maybe it'll be the Singularity. The pathway to the solution was described in 1995-95, by me: https://cryptome.org/ap.htm "Assassination Politics". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3108 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 9 08:45:04 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 18:45:04 +0300 Subject: gmail usage In-Reply-To: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> References: <20160706120529.GB7697@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160709154504.GA847@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jul 06, 2016 at 08:05:29AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > Do any gmail users (which I've noticed there a lot of on the list, > as well as in real life, heh) feel at all threatened by what Google > is doing with access to your entire mail stream? They've publicly > stated users have no "reasonable expectation of privacy". > > I don't use gmail and g00gle just reading my plaintext email is one of the reasons. They might sell it to their comrades. And to have gmail account, they want working mobile phone, which is totally unacceptable for me. > Or do you consider the internet so pwned that it doesnt matter? If you ask me, the internet pwned beyond compare. Backdoors almost anywhere. Bugs everywhere. Steady supply of fresh bugs. (JYA might comment about the state of security too). From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 9 19:09:26 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:09:26 -0700 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <5781549c.8604370a.ec0a2.05a0@mx.google.com> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5781549c.8604370a.ec0a2.05a0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5781AE56.3000904@riseup.net> On 07/09/2016 12:49 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:53:57 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > >> Isn't it weird so many shooters are military guys? > Not really? The military are trained, murdering psychos... > > >> The Dallas shooter [1] "was an Army Reserve Afghan War >> veteran". > > ...although in this case the guy did a lot of good. > >> >> In 2009 [2] "Hasan was a United States Army Medical >> Corps psychiatrist who admitted to the shootings" > > He finished off a few americunt soldiers? More good. > >> IIRC the person who recently shot gays in a bar was >> a security guard in respected c0rp0ration. >> >> Some kind of "disposable hero" syndrome? > > Sort of I guess. Though they were no heroes from the > establishment point of view... > > > It IS worthwhile noting the FBI has access to VERY elaborate psychological profiles the US military keeps on it's soldiers (from day one). It would be a lot easier for the FBI setup operators to work a US soldier, than on some prole muslim at a US mosque. I'd like to see an FOIA on ANY CONTACT AT ANY TIME the FBI had with the reservist in Dallas, but I suspect that request would only garner standard meetings, NOT meetings with provocateurs and other operators b/c "State Secret". Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rtomek at ceti.pl Sat Jul 9 10:52:34 2016 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:52:34 +0200 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160709175234.GA9441@tau1.ceti.pl> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:33:58PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > This rhetoric—calling it an argument would overstate its relation > > to facts—has recently come into vogue among Russian > > historians. Under their interpretation of history, the struggle > > that began with the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 > > continues for Russia today, in a direct line through the > > generations, with the conflict in Ukraine. That is the connection > > President Vladimir Putin first presented to the Russian people in > > March, when he sent his troops to invade and annex the Ukrainian > > region of Crimea. > > "Invasion" of Crimea by Russia in 2014? Please! > > If the actions of Russia in the face of the Azov battalian's "peace > train" to Crimea, a referendum, secession and joining to Russia, without > a single bullet fired, is supposed to be a "Russian invasion", then the > world does not have much to worry about with Russia. I guess Russia is no longer powerful enough to openly break treaties it signed: [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances ] "The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories relating to Belarus', Kazakhstan's and Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents. The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan." In light of this act, if I was responsible for Russian politics, and I received a plea to join Russia by a foreign party belonging to country which integrity I myself guaranteed - such a plea would smell rather fishy to me. Unless, of course, I predicted great bonuses if I agree and let them join me. Never mind that right now there is huge loss of money for Russia, they will replenish their finances in a future, somehow. > I guess it would also be "assumed fact" that Russia continues, for over > 2 years, to "invade" eastern Ukraine/ Donbass - I tell you this, if I > had family living in Donbass who would struggle to defend themselves > against various Ukraine "battallians", to defend their families, > children, houses, friends, I would most likely have been fighting with > them to help them defend the rest of my family, their house, friends > etc. This works the other way too. How about people who want to defend their families, children, houses and friends from living in Russia? > ISIS invades Syria, entering from Iraq, Turkey and other surrounding > areas, provided weapons and training by CIA, and takes over towns and > cities; THAT is an invasion. And I was so certain that daesh had been financed by some wealthy people from Near East. [...] > Saying black is white don't mean shit! Some people will believe just anything. [...] > >From what I've seen from afar, it is. And up until about 2 years ago, I > didn't know much about Russia... but I keep reading, Western as well as > Russian propaganda. Oh, do you mean you know/learn Russian? Because this is the best way to read Russian propaganda. Try to be like Aleksandr, who (I guess) already knows Russian and learned English, so he can read the propaganda from both sources without having to count on strangers' good will and faithfulness. Actually, do not limit yourself to mere propaganda. It would have been so cheap, you know. Russian culture is vast and rich. Try it. Some names to explore, if you need a starter: Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Mikhail Sholokhov, Isaac Babel, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Osip Mandelstam, Mikhail Bulgakov, Varlam Shalamov. Some of them you can get for free, from wikisources and other places. Even more of their works you can find if you can read them from Russian wikisources. > > “The more people are convinced of their own opinion, the more they > > become estranged from other opinions. That’s a real difficult > > problem.” And as Russia sets out to redefine what Nazism means, it > > is a problem that Western historians will somehow have to face. > > A good point here. Let's see how things play out over the next couple of > years. Sure. > > > "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. > > > > I can only imagine when people find out about this, they will run like > > hares and mad cows straight to non-western countries. > > We Westerners are well fed, well entertained, well schooled (not > educated) and sadly very compliant with external authorities. > > Golden cages do -not- make for an honourable humans! I would say that cages made of barbed wire convert humans to animals. So if I can choose, may I stay in my silver cage, please? It does not really have to be golden one. > > Spread the word, > > man. Also, buy your tickets while you can, before the mad crowd > > prevents you from running away from this horrible place. Even better, > > once you buy tickets, use them asap, go to your destination, meet your > > dreams. Do not forget to drop few words to the list, so other lost > > souls know what to expect outside. > > I would hope humans worthy of that noun, strive for something higher > than a new car, 5 bedroom house and footy tickets. > > Yes, I keep dreaming. >From "Cancer Ward" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, as given on wikipedia [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Ward ]: (start quote) The most confusing thing about the imprisoned animals was that even supposing Oleg took their side and had the power, he would still not want to break into the cages and liberate them. This was because, deprived of their home surroundings, they had lost the idea of rational freedom. It would only make things harder for them, suddenly to set them free. This was the odd way Kostoglotov reasoned. His brain was so twisted that he could no longer see things simply and dispassionately. Whatever he experienced from now on, there would always be this shadow, this grey spectre, this subterranean rumbling from the past. (end quote) -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 9 09:53:57 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 19:53:57 +0300 Subject: Dallas suspect killed by police robot In-Reply-To: <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> References: <577FEFAE.3050806@riseup.net> <550155193.55415.1468027449282.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57805442.1020903@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160709165357.GB847@sivokote.iziade.m$> Isn't it weird so many shooters are military guys? The Dallas shooter [1] "was an Army Reserve Afghan War veteran". In 2009 [2] "Hasan was a United States Army Medical Corps psychiatrist who admitted to the shootings" IIRC the person who recently shot gays in a bar was a security guard in respected c0rp0ration. Some kind of "disposable hero" syndrome? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers&oldid=729053396 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nidal_Hasan&oldid=726572811 From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 17:15:07 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 21:15:07 -0300 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> References: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> Message-ID: <578192fc.042f370a.4cba.5ba4@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:45:52 -0700 "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > On 7/9/16 1:27 AM, Steve Furlong wrote: > > > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! > > > > ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. > > > And empowered by freedom and free speech invented and protected by > The West, and the US in particular. It seems likely that the degree > of free speech in other Western countries came about, was extended, > and/or was protected because of the US First Amendment. Yes, stephen is nothing but a motherfucking troll =) The 'west' was living in the stone age until the americunts invented ICBMs. With a little help from their imported german nazis... > Cypherpunks could only have survived and thrived and made a > difference by being predominantly based in the US. and yet cypherpunks didn't make any single, fucking difference - that should tell you someting about the state of your americunt cesspool. > Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. Of course, of course. The US just need to finish off a few million more niggers or hundreds of millions more 'foreigners' worldwide, *then* it will be perfect. > In many ways, the US is > always imperfect, always in a squabble or fight about rights and > limits, land grabs or monopoly and healthy commerce; that's part of > the design of the system Of course of course! Well, that's the first sensible thing you said. All the americunt savagery IS part of the 'design' of the 'system'. The monopolies, the land grabs, the jails, the wars. That's your true americunt spirit. > and what enables it to generally work and > improve long term. Sure. The more savagery, the more improvement. War is peace and all that. J. > sdw > From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 9 21:17:12 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 21:17:12 -0700 Subject: Message from the front lines Message-ID: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> DeRay Mckesson, one of ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ ideological main men has been arrested in ‪#‎BatonRouge‬ during an ‪#‎AltonSterling‬ ‪#‎PoliceMurder‬ protest for "Walking".. It's also his BIRTHDAY! Congrats Deray! Join the "I spent my birthday in jail for the cause" club. I spent my 18th in the Tombs, 100 Centre St. Manhattan Criminal court, for an anti-Vietnam war demo in 1971. https://twitter.com/StylistComplete/status/751978156123238400 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jul 9 21:09:33 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:09:33 -0600 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57815002.4666370a.3908e.4186@mx.google.com> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <57815002.4666370a.3908e.4186@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5781CA7D.7010004@riseup.net> On 07/09/2016 01:29 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:03:00 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >>>> Was there an option to not join any state? >>> >>> I suspect not, but in the context, I think that would literally have >>> been suicide. Or endless civil war as we see since then (the last >>> two years) in eastern Ukraine. >> >> I find it hard to imagine how anarchist societies could develop in our >> currently state-dominated world. > > Well, the statists can simply leave the anarchists alone. Sure > it's unlikely, but it's simple. Yes, very unlikely. > But my point was that the referendum wasn't especially > pristine. > > The soundest pro russian argument here may be that the russians > didn't raze crimea to the ground...which is something the NATO > humanitarians were more likely to do. > > > >> Anarchist societies have survived >> through isolation, and some still do. But how does that work in places >> under active state contention? >> >> Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less equally >> powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In science >> fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new technology >> that eliminates states' power monopoly. > > What technologies? The only 'technology' I can imagine making a > difference would be some sort of physical shield that would > make it impossible for individuals to be physically attacked. Vinge's bobbles? But then we get to _Marooned in Realtime_. >> Maybe it'll be the >> Singularity. > > The sigularity is singular bullshit. If anything it seems > likely to replace(i. e. kill) humanity with a bunch of > motherfucking psychos like kurzweil and the rest of master-race > 'elite' lunatics. I like https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf :) From admin at pilobilus.net Sat Jul 9 19:19:15 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:19:15 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/09/2016 01:30 PM, jim bell wrote: > *From:* Mirimir > > >> Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less >> equally powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In >> science fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new >> technology that eliminates states' power monopoly. Maybe it'll be >> the Singularity. > > The pathway to the solution was described in 1995-95, by me: > > https://cryptome.org/ap.htm > > "Assassination Politics". A couple of years ago, Forbes reported that 400 billionaires owned 1/2 the capital assets in the U.S. In the face of this, I think AP may have a problem with scale: How many small investors does it take to redirect AP profiteers away from targets chosen by factions among the ruling class, beginning with anyone suspected of operating the AP infrastructure and/or promoting it effectively to a wide audience of participants? If an AP lottery is not "fair and honest" by allowing anyone to be targeted regardless of occupation or etc., how long until ones that do allow any human to be bet on appear, with inflated bounties on perceived enemies of the ruling class? Mind you, AP is a frightfully clever idea. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXgbCjAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqGZoIAICNaiMWRFIzrIIANUs2YC+w XtdUCCMgv0SIWiV+Xs5n7bpuTh4pyPBPdwT0nH13AJaGph9PBGSIUbFgWObP9v+3 jSqG9c9g04kXPA2FkVImS5d8LqiPH0kwfRBfjTKT2Hw51C5yw3t9i7ZKjAfShi2R +fhEKStDfM+ED9XvakbPu5bmCEOXg8hMFWOX4LZUAL1J7x+cnR8xTXCiEhnzAxqg h0E4w8SsMf+bOhIHdbZcDHIbGyCrMAyUtvj/LQ/j+2ZZHIlXtsxbpIWvJWxl5VVA lfnJV2Yy7vguQ8KlMBcPKMzxJgqPmQIlpg7/0KKZh743f0LYINfATpTtIwijIkw= =QHtt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 05:33:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:33:58 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> Message-ID: <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> > This rhetoric—calling it an argument would overstate its relation > to facts—has recently come into vogue among Russian > historians. Under their interpretation of history, the struggle > that began with the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 > continues for Russia today, in a direct line through the > generations, with the conflict in Ukraine. That is the connection > President Vladimir Putin first presented to the Russian people in > March, when he sent his troops to invade and annex the Ukrainian > region of Crimea. "Invasion" of Crimea by Russia in 2014? Please! If the actions of Russia in the face of the Azov battalian's "peace train" to Crimea, a referendum, secession and joining to Russia, without a single bullet fired, is supposed to be a "Russian invasion", then the world does not have much to worry about with Russia. I guess it would also be "assumed fact" that Russia continues, for over 2 years, to "invade" eastern Ukraine/ Donbass - I tell you this, if I had family living in Donbass who would struggle to defend themselves against various Ukraine "battallians", to defend their families, children, houses, friends, I would most likely have been fighting with them to help them defend the rest of my family, their house, friends etc. ISIS invades Syria, entering from Iraq, Turkey and other surrounding areas, provided weapons and training by CIA, and takes over towns and cities; THAT is an invasion. As it is, we in the West can sit back so comfortably, armchair war generals, declare with the CIA that Al Nusra, Daesh and other Wahabbi extremists entering/invading Syria are actually "freedom fighters" as they invade towns and cities, raping, killing and destroying, because, you know "Assad must go", whilst those families defending themselves and their houses in eastern Ukraine against their own supposed "government" are "terrorists". Saying black is white don't mean shit! > Ukraine’s ensuing war to prevent > Russia from seizing any more of its territory has likewise been > branded a fascist campaign against ethnic Russians. >From what I've seen from afar, it is. And up until about 2 years ago, I didn't know much about Russia... but I keep reading, Western as well as Russian propaganda. > “The more people are convinced of their own opinion, the more they > become estranged from other opinions. That’s a real difficult > problem.” And as Russia sets out to redefine what Nazism means, it > is a problem that Western historians will somehow have to face. A good point here. Let's see how things play out over the next couple of years. > > "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. > > I can only imagine when people find out about this, they will run like > hares and mad cows straight to non-western countries. We Westerners are well fed, well entertained, well schooled (not educated) and sadly very compliant with external authorities. Golden cages do -not- make for an honourable humans! > Spread the word, > man. Also, buy your tickets while you can, before the mad crowd > prevents you from running away from this horrible place. Even better, > once you buy tickets, use them asap, go to your destination, meet your > dreams. Do not forget to drop few words to the list, so other lost > souls know what to expect outside. I would hope humans worthy of that noun, strive for something higher than a new car, 5 bedroom house and footy tickets. Yes, I keep dreaming. From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 05:48:27 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:48:27 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160709124827.GN30352@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 04:27:10AM -0400, Steve Furlong wrote: > > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! > > ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. I am not talking about wealth, technology, inventions, not even health and power to holiday and travel. We can be in denial of the endless CIA coups and USA wars since (and before as history shows) WWII. We can deny that we are told daily by our Western MSM that black is white, the endless NATO encroachment towards Russia's borders is not aggressive and Russia supporting a no-bullet-fired referendum in Crimea, which is mostly Russian people and Russia's only warm water naval base, "aggression". We can say that the CIA funding, fuelling with arms, and training Al Nusra "syrian rebels" is "bringing democracy". We can say murdering Saddam Hussein was for the good of the world and Hillary Clinton's democratic salute to Ghaddafi, "we came, we saw, he died" somehow brings greater stability and peace to the world. We can say the UK and France in creating the Muslim Brotherhood a century ago was great for democratic "regime change" all over the middle east over the last century and we can say installing missile stations in Poland the Baltic states which today can travel 500km and in two years 1000km, is somehow to "contain the threat of Iran's nuclear program" and "poses no threat to Russia" even though being able to directly target Russia's Nuclear stockpile does not endanger the nuclear "balance" currently in the world. We can even say that the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund actually improve the lot of the third world (or the "global south" second and third worlds) despite the specific and impressive debt slavery of those nations over the last half century. We can say all sorts of things, and pretend that these things are somehow "honourable" and "bringing democracy" to the world. But I sent an email, and the Internet was invented by the United States DoD, so any disputation of all these things we can say, some examples above, must be false. No, the West is honourable, upstanding, bringing exaltant standards of human respect, dignity, egalité, liberté, fraternité, democracy. I wish this were the case, but basically, what the West brings to the world today is the exaltation of money, financial greed, war, war and more war. And some golden cages, the trappings of wealth and technology. From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 07:57:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:57:48 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160709145748.GR30352@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:33:58PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I guess it would also be "assumed fact" that Russia continues, for over > 2 years, to "invade" eastern Ukraine/ Donbass - By the way, it ought be obvious to any thinking mind, but if Russia chose to actually invade Ukraine and risk the big confront with America and WWIII, it would have seized Ukraine's capital Kiev in about 48 hours - less time than it would take the US to actually get its shit in order to respond and ship over many battallians of various forces (which is, truly, what the war hawks want the excuse to do - to be "the policeman of the world"). The conclusion AFAICT on both sides (USA and Russia) seems to be that, assuming no nuclear armageddon, a regular ground/air war would proceed for a few months and America would likely reclaim Ukraine from such an aggressive Russia, but Russia would exact a very high toll as the price for "Western freedom". Fortunately, this did not happen. (And in that hypothetical, the Ukrainians would have experienced a hell far greater, far more devastating, far more intense, and over a much shorter time frame, than they have ever experienced (as f@#$ed up as it is) over the last two years of civil war.) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 22:49:20 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:49:20 -0400 Subject: The Fact of Sisyphus Message-ID: Barrett Brown, whose column received the 2016 National Magazine Award for columns and commentary, is an imprisoned U.S. journalist and the founder of Project PM, a crowd-sourced investigation into the cyber-industrial complex. In 2012, the FBI raided his house, and later that year Barrett was indicted on 12 federal charges relating to the 2011 Stratfor hack. The most controversial charge, linking to the hacked data, was dropped, but in 2015 Brown was sentenced to 63 months in prison. For more information about his case, and to contribute to his legal defense fund, please visit the Free Barrett website. If you’d like to send him a book, here’s his Amazon wish list. Brown's ebook, Keep Rootin' for Putin is available as a free download. Barrett Brown #45047-177 FCI Three Rivers Federal Correctional Institution P.O. Box 4200 Three Rivers, TX 78071 https://freebarrettbrown.org/ https://twitter.com/@FreeBarrett_ https://theintercept.com/2016/07/09/barrett-brown-the-fact-of-sisyphus/ Barrett Brown 2016-07-09T11:45:01+00:00 Partly as a consequence of my natural rambunctiousness, I’ve spent a total of five months over the past few years of incarceration being held in 23- to 24-hour-a-day Special Housing Unit confinement cells, collectively and informally known as “the hole,” at three different prisons and in stints ranging from six to 60 days; indeed, my first three Intercept columns were composed from the SHU over at Federal Correctional Institution Fort Worth. But as these were given over largely to rambling self-promotion and some rather intemperate attacks on several contemporary novelists, I’ve never gotten around to providing a real sense of what it’s actually like to live in one of these federal dungeons. The chief thing to keep in mind is that dungeons vary. The most fundamental division lies between those in which inmates are kept singly in cells along a corridor set off from the rest of the prison and purposefully denied human contact to one extent or another, and those in which two prisoners are kept together in such cells, usually with a window or metalwork grill on the door through which inmates can communicate with others in their corridor via the age-old medium of shouting. The first — known as solitary confinement to everyone but prison officials, who’ve gradually replaced the term with an assortment of euphemisms — is often conflated in the public mind with the second, lesser-known setup, but at any rate the nature of one’s detention is such that human contact is either intentionally and elaborately absent or haphazardly and excruciatingly omnipresent. Even within these two categories, one finds a great deal of variation from institution to institution, but day-to-day SHU life at FCI Fort Worth should make for a useful baseline. There, a weekday begins at 6 a.m. when the lights in one’s cell come on. A few minutes later the rectangular slot in one’s door is unlocked and a guard pushes in a plastic tray containing breakfast along with a couple of little plastic bags of milk. It’s rather dehumanizing, this matter of having to drink milk out of bags like a common Canadian, but getting breakfast in bed every day makes up for it. Fifteen minutes later the guard comes back and takes up the trays, and then one of his colleagues will walk down the hall jotting down the names of those who want to go outside for one’s permitted daily hour of weekday recreation. Having compiled the list, the guard goes back to his station and tries to arrange things such that incompatible inmates aren’t placed together in the same recreation cage. This sort of reminds me of the old riddle about the farmer who has a fox and a rooster and a bag of corn but can only take one at a time across the river in his boat and the fox will eat the rooster and the rooster will eat the corn if either pair is left together unattended (the solution, incidentally, is to shoot the fox, because it’s a fox). If you are indeed going to rec that morning, the guard opens the hatch and you back up to it and put your hands through to be handcuffed, and then your cellmate does likewise regardless of whether or not he’s going out as well, as the door isn’t ever supposed to be opened until both occupants are cuffed. When the door does open, you walk out backward before being patted down and scanned with a hand-held metal detector, led out to the courtyard, placed in one of several large cages with your scientifically designated playmate, and then uncuffed through the slot in the gate. After an hour of kicking around a deflated basketball while yelling old Symbionese Liberation Army slogans at the other prisoners, you’re cuffed back up through the gate slot and returned to your cell. A bit later we get lunch, and then dinner a few hours afterward, followed by mail. Three days a week we’re cuffed up and taken to the other end of the hall for showers. On weekends we generally don’t leave our cells at all. It’s a schedule that leaves prisoners with a great deal of free time, much of which tends to be spent in sleep or exercise. The chief workout routine in the SHU, as well as in jail units and other locales where even improvised equipment can be hard to drum up, is something called burpies, which entails an alternating series of push-ups, squats, and leg thrusts and which I refer to as Berbers because “burpies” is vulgar. Not that I do them anyway, or any other exercise, and I’ve never approved of excessive sleeping, either, for life is not meant to be spent in rest, but rather in conflict or preparation for future conflict. barbed_3 There is one common SHU activity in which I do happily participate, though, simply because it’s something that can’t be done elsewhere and naturally I’m trying to experience all the touristy prison things before my release just in case I don’t come back for a while. The SHU is the only place of which I’m aware where it’s socially acceptable to yell random nonsense where other people can hear it. Now, much of the yelling that people do through gaps under the door or the crack between the door and its mounting or the metal grills that serve as windows in some units, as the case may be, is entirely purposeful communication consisting of gossip, plots, threats, lyrics, Symbionese Liberation Army slogans, vows, requests, and commercial offers, and this sort of thing will go on throughout the day, with peak times occurring after meals and other periods when everyone tends to be awake (as to how those commercial offers are accepted, there is a process known as “fishing” or “shooting the line” by which small items may be transferred among inmates, but a full column’s description will be required to do it justice; suffice it to say that string and persistence are involved). But in addition to all of this more or less mundane intercourse, there’s also a wholly distinct and inimitable element of shouting-for-the-sake-of-shouting. Some of this takes the form of memes; at Seagoville Federal Detention Center, for instance, the guards once brought in a drunk off the compound who, after being placed in his cell, spent the next hour banging on the door and yelling out some sloshy, inconsequential narrative that he would punctuate every few sentences with the refrain, “They hear me but they don’t FEEL me, though!” Thereafter this phrase became a very popular meme that would be shouted out several times a day; it had been incorporated into the vibrant oral culture of our particular SHU corridor. But SHU shouts can be, and often are, more or less apropos of nothing. I myself was fond of drinking six or seven lukewarm cups of the freeze-dried instant coffee we can buy from the weekly commissary cart, going up to the door grill, and calling out in a raspy, feminine voice, “My brother is coming … with MANY FREMEN WARRIORS” about 20 or 30 times in a row, often capped off with a triumphant, “Meet the Atreides Gom Jabbar, grandfather!” And it wouldn’t occur to anyone to inquire as to why I’d done this; people in the SHU wake up every morning with a sort of preternatural awareness that someone could start yelling out lines from David Lynch’s highly underrated 1984 film version of Dune at any moment and will either assume that the yeller needed to do this to feel self-actualized or, alternatively, that he’s one of the untold thousands of mentally ill prisoners whom U.S. prison authorities have allowed to languish in punishment cells for years on end (though in my case, people tended to recognize me by voice as the guy who was always kicking around the deflated basketball and calling for death to the fascist insect that preys on the life of the people). Aside from sleeping, screaming, and exercising, there’s also reading. Federal SHUs generally have book carts that are rolled up the hallway once a week; inmates crouch next to their door slots to view the selections and point to what they want. Prison book carts are always exciting, tending to be largely composed of donations from ancient rural branch libraries that have just given up and closed down or whatever, such that one can always expect to find a stray gem or hilarious oddity. On one occasion I grabbed an award-winning 1962 volume on Jefferson by Dumas Malone in which the claim that the third president engaged in a sexual relationship with the slave Sally Hemings is dismissed as “wholly unwarranted.” But my best find to date remains the early ’80s sci-fi novel I came across a couple of years back in which the U.S. has fallen under a dystopian theocracy after having rather unwisely elected a Mormon president. Fortunately, SHU inmates are allowed to receive books through the mail from commercial retailers just as we can in the prison itself, with the only difference being that we can’t get hardcover books lest we use them to make shanks. When the editors at The Intercept sent me a hardback copy of the new Jonathan Franzen tome Purity last year, I was only given it after a guard tore off the cover. This was a rather upsetting thing to have witnessed, though halfway through the narrative I was kind of wishing he’d finished the job. I try to keep a copy of something by Hegel with me at all times as well, not so much with the intent of reading it straight through, but rather as a means by which to play a little game I’ve invented called Shut the Fuck Up, Hegel, You Fucking Fraud. What you do is, you flip to a random page in any volume of Hegel’s works and look for the inevitable instance of hyper-oracular nonsense, such as this line I just randomly came across from page 129 of Lectures on the Philosophy of History: The spread of Indian culture is prehistorical, for history is limited to that which makes for an essential epoch in the development of spirit. On the whole, the diffusion of Indian culture is only a dumb, deedless expansion, that is, without a political act. The people of India have achieved no foreign conquests, but have been on every occasion vanquished themselves. Then you write in the margin, “Shut the fuck up, Hegel, you fucking fraud.” And from page 51: What spirit really strives for is the realization of its own concept; but in so doing it hides that goal from its own vision; it is proud and quite enjoys itself in this alienation from itself. “Whatever, douche.” Indeed, to live in the hole is to be thrust into a world in which everything must be repurposed and all possibilities pursued. One day I decided to compose a list of unnecessary people throughout history and had jotted down Ezra Pound, the Emperor Aurangzeb, Carlos Mencia, Charles IV, and Gary Bauer when it became clear that I’d cast my net too wide, at which point I abandoned the project. Instead I tried to decide which city I’d destroy if I had the chance, other than Houston. I eventually decided on Singapore, which I feel has been setting a bad example for the other cities. SHU time is a time for remembrance. I thought of all the strange and interesting people I’d met throughout my incarceration, such as the fellow who would conclude all of his assertions with the phrase, “Even a small child knows that.” Among the things a small child knows, it seems, is that sentences handed down for conspiracy to distribute methamphetamines tend to be much harsher in Texas than in California and that a particular guard who works the morning shift is kind of a dick sometimes but not always. There was also the guy who feted me with coffee and candy bars during a weeklong transit stop at a local jail, at one point showing me the program from his father’s funeral a few years prior; the cover bore a photo of a man dressed all in yellow, right down to his cape and top hat, and who apparently went only by the name Yellow Shoes. As noted in the program text, Yellow Shoes was survived by well over 30 children. His father had been a famous East Dallas pimp, my friend explained, somewhat unnecessarily. Now he himself had been indicted as a drug dealer when in fact he was a pimp like his father before him, something he planned to explain to the judge at the first opportunity. Frankly, I’d say he had a strong case. Finally, SHU inmates also spend some variable portion of each day reflecting on the astonishing degree of injustice they’ve had the chance to observe, as well as cultivating a healthy contempt for the system that perpetrates that injustice and the society that continues to permit it. Some months ago I asked The Intercept to file a Freedom of Information Act request with the Bureau of Prisons in pursuit of all records pertaining to yours truly in hopes of documenting further instances of government misconduct to add to my collection. Recently the BOP provided us with 175 pages, all of which we’ve posted online — including the fully one-third that the BOP has completely redacted. Tellingly, some clear and potentially criminal wrongdoing actually crops up even among those pages that the agency has not gone so far as to completely blank out, as we’ll see in a moment. First, let’s get the vital statistics from Ben Brieschke of the BOP’s notoriously shady South Central Regional Office, who prepared the cover letter: After a careful review, we determined 89 pages are appropriate for release in full; 28 pages are appropriate for release in part; and, [sic] 58 pages must be withheld in their entirety. Most of these redactions are being justified under two FOIA exemptions, one of which is intended for those files or portions thereof “which would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions,” with the other pertaining to those bits of information “which could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or personal safety of an individual.” This latter consideration certainly sounds serious, and one can get a sense of the peril to which BOP staff are forever subject by the fact that first names are blocked out with the “(b)(7)(F)” box throughout these documents, lest they be tracked down by violent ex-prisoners or what have you. One can likewise get a sense that even the BOP doesn’t buy its own bullshit in this regard by the fact that it has failed to block out the first name of a member of the BOP’s Special Investigative Services (SIS) security division, and in another document has left in the typed-out first, last, and middle names of some dozen other officers and staff, an act of negligence that — what was that phrase again? — “could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or personal safety” of the individuals it itself has just fully identified, if we take the BOP’s own word for it (though in my infinite benevolence, I’ve asked The Intercept to block out the names in question, for all men know of my great regard for the comfort and well-being of American law enforcement officials). Of course, the reality is that despite these names having sat on the internet for weeks before I came across the regional office’s slip in my paper copies and had them redacted, no one has been endangered by the BOP’s incompetence here, as the (b)(7)(F) exemption is less a necessary security measure than it is a convenient smokescreen by which to cover up its own misconduct. And at many institutions, employees tend to be less wary of inmates than they are of the administration itself; when medical staff at several BOP prisons spoke to USA Today earlier this year about the bureau’s despicable tendency to regularly use them as prison guards rather than, say, having them work full-time providing the medical care that’s already in short supply, all of those coming forward chose to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation. Speaking of retaliation, have a look at this inmate progress report prepared by two Fort Worth staff at the end of August 2015 in which I am commended for my “good sanitation” and continued FRP payments (the monthly restitution I’ve been ordered to pay to my corporate “victims”). Elsewhere it’s noted that I’m “currently participating in the GED program” (until recently the BOP refused to acknowledge that, in addition to my good sanitation, I’m also a high school graduate; as a result I had to sign up for high school equivalency classes). And here are the signatures of the staff members in question, S. Vanderlinden and M. Gutierrez, along with my own, perhaps not terribly impressive signature. Now take a look at this other document composed 12 days later, after I’d been thrown in the hole again, and signed by the very same two staff members, which I was never supposed to see. Now it seems that I’ve shown “poor institutional adjustment,” “poor program participation,” and even “poor living skills” — true enough if we’re talking about signature design — and thus must be moved to a medium security prison immediately. This would be my new favorite illustration of the casual criminality that has long marked the BOP’s operational culture had I not also acquired this other, even more extraordinary specimen — the latest response from the BOP regarding the Administrative Remedy complaint I filed over a year ago regarding the retaliatory seizure of my email access, the first of a string of bizarre incidents at Fort Worth that would culminate in the confiscation of my notebook outside the law library. As I’ve noted before, the Prison Litigation Reform Act of 1986 — passed during a period in which U.S. domestic policy was being determined largely on the basis of questionable anecdotes — requires that inmates who wish to sue the BOP and its employees first complete an arcane and multilayered regimen of paperwork to the satisfaction of the BOP and its employees. Inmates who find that the process itself is being violated by the BOP and its employees are free to file another complaint for review by the BOP and its employees. Astonishingly, this process is not always free from abuse by the BOP and its employees. When we last checked in on my own complaint about my email access having been seized by BOP Washington liaison Terrance Moore an hour after I’d used it to alert a journalist to BOP misconduct, the regional office had rather despicably claimed that my appeal had been late, even though it clearly hadn’t, as the failure by the warden’s executive assistant Jerry McKinney to respond to my BP-9 form within 20 days of the day he logged it in, as well as his failure to request the 20-day extension to his own deadline until well after his first deadline had passed, as well as his failure to meet even that extended deadline, allowed me to consider this a rejection at the institutional level and freed me to proceed to the regional level, as is noted in the BOP’s own policy guidelines — except that I couldn’t, because, as I’ve also documented via forms signed and dated by McKinney himself, McKinney failed to return the original documents to me for another month despite messages I sent over the internal staff notification system requesting that he do so. Finally he brought me back a triply late and thus invalid rejection — even handing it to me nine days after the date it was signed, as is again documented by his own dating and signature. The regional counsels know this fully well, and also know that just a few days later I was placed in the SHU and thereafter shipped to Oklahoma for processing and then to my current prison, where I filed my regional appeal as soon as I received the box containing my legal papers. They know this because, as I learned recently when I complained that the BOP was now apparently violating the law by holding some of my mail for nearly two weeks, I’m on some ultra-rare and secretive classification known as “Inmates of Greatest Concern,” which requires that everything I do be monitored and scrutinized for the benefit of some unspecified outside agency. Nonetheless, the region rejected my appeal due to it being “untimely,” made an inappropriate request that I obtain “staff verification” that this wasn’t my fault from staff at a prison I am accusing of systematic retaliation and whom I have no means of contacting since I’m no longer housed there, and demanded that my appeal be reduced to a single typewritten page and resubmitted, all within 15 days of the date of this rejection, which just happened to be 15 days prior to my receipt of it. Thus I’d been given zero days to comply, including mail time. I documented the entirety of this in a column months ago and wrote back to the region’s legal counsel, explaining in detail why his requests were impossible. Several weeks later I received another rejection notice in which the counsel ignores my explanations and maintains that I missed the deadline, although he himself seems confused as to when that deadline actually was since he lists it as having fallen on two different dates. And just so I understand that the zero days thing wasn’t a mistake, the rejection notice is dated December 4 — and they’d delayed mailing it to me such that it didn’t even arrive at the warden’s office until December 29. This time, then, I’d been given negative 10 days to comply. My email access was finally reinstated several months ago by the security staff at my current prison, who immediately determined that there was no legitimate reason why I shouldn’t have it; my continued pursuit of this process is intended to force an admission of wrongdoing from the BOP as well as to illustrate how it actually operates. This, after all, is the only procedure by which my 200,000 fellow federal inmates are able to protect the last human rights remaining to them, whether they’ve been subject to ongoing retaliation, or they’ve been kept in the hole for years on end contrary to law and all decency, or they’ve been beaten while in handcuffs, or they’ve been denied basic medical care — all issues that have been encountered by people I’ve known and interviewed over the past few years. Here’s a list of grievances logged in at Fort Worth in 2014 and 2015, which we’ve obtained via another FOIA request; keep in mind that for every complaint filed, there are dozens of incidents that go undocumented because veteran inmates are aware of the near impossibility of getting heard by the court under a system that can be violated without consequences. Imagine spending a year in the hole due to a mistake, trying all the while to get a court to order your release, and getting back a demand that you include two extra copies of a document and that you do this six days ago. This sort of thing happens regularly, throughout the system, although the problem appears to be particularly systematic in this regional district. The truly disturbing part is not that this happens in the first place, but rather that it will likely continue happening despite now having been fully documented. For it is not just the prisons that are broken, but the media as well. To help illustrate the manner in which the press has become largely incapable of performing its necessary watchdog role even when large parts of its job are done for it, and how certain parties have managed to benefit from this state of affairs, next time we’ll discuss why it is that I happen to be in prison. We’ll also talk about a man named Peter Thiel. As it happens, these subjects are very much intertwined. Quote of the Day: “At the very outset we have the antithesis between the goal of the state as the abstract generality on the one hand, and the abstract person on the other; but when subsequently, in the course of history, personality gains the ascendant, its breakup into atoms can only be held together externally; then the subjective power of rule comes forward as if summoned to fulfill this task. For abstract legality is this; not to be concrete from within, not to have organization from within; and this, having come to power, has only an arbitrary power as contingent subjectivity as what moves it, as what rules it; and the individual seeks in the developed private law solace for his lost freedom. This the purely secular reconciliation of the antithesis.” — Fucking Hegel Drawing by Paul Davis. Fee donated to Barrett Brown’s legal defense fund. 49 Comments Threads Latest William St. George July 10 2016, 5:37 a.m. The Hegel quotes, especially the last one, are extremely reminiscent of the sort of thing a university student might write having taken a Benzedrine tablet the previous night before a test in the Philosophy of History — obviously a mistake as witness the incoherence of the types of thoughts resulting. So what might Hegel have been taking. I do not think even in the original German the last quote could really be said to have any meaning but rather pieces of meaning stuck together by a beleaguered mind. Great piece of writing by B. Brown. Eventually fitting all this together in a book will be wise. Another Soul On Ice or Soul On Computer Chip. ↪ Reply AtheistInChief July 10 2016, 3:34 a.m. We’ll also talk about a man named Peter Thiel. I can’t wait. — Fucking Hegel ↪ Reply Rick July 10 2016, 1:14 a.m. Fucking brilliant. Hang on. ↪ Reply Yes July 10 2016, 1:00 a.m. You’re brilliant, Barrett. Stay strong. You deserve so much better than your current situation and I hope that it will change for the better as soon as possible. ↪ Reply cwradio July 9 2016, 9:21 p.m. I always enjoy your posts, Barrett; they’re good for at least 5-6 belly laughs. I’m glad you’ve kept your sense of humor in a system that has run aground against its Peter Principle. Corrections by insects! ↪ Reply altohone July 9 2016, 7:34 p.m. Always entertaining and enlightening BB. A few questions came to mind- How was the $890.000 or so in restitution calculated? I saw no mention in the documents, nor whether it was being collected for disbursement to the “victims” or kept by the state. I’d appreciate it if anybody has a link… or perhaps BB will cover it in the forthcoming piece he alluded to this round? Why are they redacting publicly accessible news articles? How is it that cursive is used by guards on these forms? Is printing or at least legibility not a consideration? How is that nobody else in the SHU is familiar with Dune? I never understood the “grandfather” thing though… anybody? Thanks. ↪ Reply nfjtakfa ↪ altohone July 9 2016, 8:35 p.m. She was talking to her grandfather on her mother’s side at the time. Baron Vladimir Harkonnen was Lady Jessica’s actual father under the secret Bene Gesserit breeding program, and so Alia Atreides was his the evil Baron’s granddaughter – just as her brother Paul, the Kwisatz Haderach, was his grandson. ↪ Reply altohone ↪ nfjtakfa July 9 2016, 10:45 p.m. I should have expected that to be the question that gets answered. Not that I don’t appreciate the reply. OK, so why the big stink about Jessica only having daughters so the two families could finally be brought together? The grandfather thing seemingly makes that redundant… but also explains the unexpected success of the breeding program. It’s been 30 years or so since I read the book… maybe I should pick it up again. The movie made no prior references to these facts. Maybe it was too hard to suspend disbelief that the Baron could spawn a beauty like Jessica. But grandchildren marrying each other makes Herbert a bit more twisted than I remember. ↪ Reply photosymbiosis ↪ altohone July 9 2016, 11:15 p.m. “But grandchildren marrying each other makes Herbert a bit more twisted than I remember.” That’s just the modern perspective; it was pretty common in the era of divine kings and queens – they didn’t want to pollute the royal blood with that of commoners, so keeping it all in the family was not unusual, accounting for the relatively high rate of inherited genetic disorders in various royal dynasties. https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Habsburg-Jaw-And-Other-Royal-Inbreeding-Deformities-and-Disorders Other good Frank Herbert quotes: “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” (Dune) “We are plagued by a corrupt polity which promotes unlawful and/or immoral behavior. Public interest has no practical significance in everyday behavior among the ruling factions. The real problems of our world are not being confronted by those in power. In the guise of public service, they use whatever comes to hand for personal gain. They are insane with and for power.” (Dosadi Experiment) ↪ Reply nfjtakfa ↪ altohone July 9 2016, 11:26 p.m. It was never about just bringing any two families together in particular so much as the Bene Gesserit were always trying to produce a truly prescient male (that they could control) as a main goal of their breeding program. By producing a son a generation or two earlier than they wanted (for her Duke Leto Atreides) it meant they weren’t yet prepared, it wasn’t at the time and place of their choosing and they would never control him. Back-story: The Reverend-Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam blackmailed The Baron, who didn’t like women sexually, into their breeding program and he was so angry he raped her violently. She in turn used her Bene Gesserit abilities during the rape to get some revenge of her own and infect him with the disease that then plagued him for decades, making him grossly fat with ugly sores everywhere. (book “House Harkonnen,” I believe) In the original Dune, the Baron only learned of his grandchildren as a died at Alia’s hand from her personal Gom Jabbar. Jessica and the BeneGesserit never told him Jessica was his daughter with Helen Mohiam. And Alia was, after all, a Reverend Mother with access to “other voices” (ancestors, mostly previous Reverend Mothers) from before she was born, as Jessica went through the water of life transformation while pregnant, making Alia what they called an abomination. She knew from her ancestral voices within what he didn’t, and informed him of it as he died. Some of this back-story was filled in years later in a series of many books written by Frank Herbert’s son Brian together with Kevin J. Anderson. They’ve written some 14 books in the Dune Universe filling in the complete back story of the Butlerian Jihad and the Great Houses with prelude, including the Machine Universe of Omnius and Erasmus – and even series far into the future of Frank’s original Dune. Um, I guess I’ve sort of read them all – for decades now. They’re in fact still at it with a couple more already in the works according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Herbert ↪ Reply photosymbiosis ↪ nfjtakfa July 10 2016, 12:51 a.m. Please, the Brian Herbert books are awful, awful, awful! One of the most pathetic efforts to flog a parent’s name into a literary cash payoff ever seen. Utter garbage, bottom of the barrel scrapings. Frank Herbert had a real grasp of how dictatorships and empires rise and fall, and he wove in ecology and history in a unique way. That drivel produced by his son is embarrassingly bad in contrast. ↪ Reply nfjtakfa ↪ photosymbiosis July 10 2016, 2:58 a.m. Some weren’t that great, but some weren’t nearly as bad as some of Frank’s own efforts either. Especially in my younger years I devoured fantasy / sci-fi realms as a form of escape, although less so for that reason the last decade so much as author chasing. For instance, for a year or three in the ’08 – ’10 time frame I couldn’t get enough of R.A. Salvatore and read most everything he ever wrote. When I read for entertainment or escape it’s never about construct so much as storytelling and being taken elsewhere, like with good music – if the storytelling transports you places that can be enough. And please yourself, btw, I never recommended the books or made any claims about them whatsoever. But I’ll tell you this, I’ve never read a single Brian Herbert / Kevin J. Anderson book of the Dune universe as bad as Dune Messiah, which I read the year it was released, by Frank Herbert himself. ↪ Reply altohone ↪ nfjtakfa July 10 2016, 4:54 a.m. Well, I was specifically referring to the dialogue in the movie where Jessica was berated… I skipped the quotation marks due to uncertainty about the precise wording, but the gist is accurate… bringing the two families together part. I’m sure the movie isn’t true to the book, but your response suggests the dialog in the movie was actually false, and that is surprising. ↪ Reply photosymbiosis July 9 2016, 7:06 p.m. Thanks for the inside view of the federal prison complex, it’s very enlightening. My immediate inclination was to compare-and-contrast the above report with the Russian prison complex as described in Don’t Trust Dont’ Fear Don’t Beg, by Ben Stewart. I don’t think I’d like either one much, although the Soviet system seems to have more opportunities for cell-to-cell communication via the sock relay system – doroga. On the other hand, the quality of the food in Russian prisons seems much lower: http://www.alternativesjournal.ca/community/reviews/dont-trust-dont-fear-dont-beg-extraordinary-story-arctic-thirty Here’s how the Greenpeace detainees were welcomed by the other prisoners – an educational note: The best of day and time to you, all arrestees! Here is hoping this note finds you in good health and strong of mood. Here is the deal. There is us and there is them, there are thieves and there are stars. The stars have stars on their shoulder plates, and those, dear friends, are the guards. Then there is us, we are the arrestees. We are the thieves. Now, the doroga is most important, it keeps us as one, together, in solidarity. It is what keeps us alive. If there is anything you need, you will have it. All you need do is ask. You will not sell or buy things, no, you are expected to give. If you have something, you give it. If you need it something, it will be given to you. If you want to be a part of the doroga, you are welcome to join our community of ropes, you will be supported, you will be given what you need. If however you are afraid to be a part of the road, we understand, and you will still be given support. But do not interfere with the doroga. If you interfere with the road, you will be punished, you will no longer be one of us, you will be one of them. You will no longer be a thief. You become a star. Here’s another nice feature of the Russian prison complex: “You are not permitted to be rude. Hard cursing is not allowed against another prisoner. One is permitted to say, “I hate this fucking shit” but you can’t say “Fuck you.” You will treat other arrestees with respect. Hilarious, Russian prisoners treat each other more politely than many TI commentators do. Funny isn’t it? But then, those who engage in such tactics are most likely “stars”, I’d say, out to disrupt conversations – although when you have to share a cell with people, it’s probably wiser to be polite. Food for thought? Here’s another interesting feature of the Russian prison complex, one that could be imported to the United States: Below that there’s another category. Former employees of law enforcement agencies. Cops. Prosecutors. There are a lot of them in prison, there’s lots of crime that goes on in that sector of society. Bribery, murder, everything. And they end up here. They have their own cells as well. They keep themselves to themselves, otherwise they tend to get killed. One of the reasons killer cops and dishonest prosecutors and dirty federal agents from outfits like the FBI and DEA and ATF tend to avoid prison time is that judges worry about their fate in prison; they’d be hated by everyone. However, if you set up segregated prison units for such people, the justice system might be more willing to throw them in jail. Great idea, isn’t it? Works for the Russians, apparently. Here’s some more good advice: “Don’t trust anybody in a uniform,” says Vitaly. “The more faith you put in the authorities, the more it hurts when they screw you over. To trust the police is to disrespect yourself. And don’t fear because whatever you’re scared of, you can’t stop it happening. What will be will be. Your fear changes nothing, but it hurts you, so let it go. And don’t beg because it never works. Nobody ever begged their way out of SIZO-1, so don’t sacrifice your dignity on a false promise. There’s no point being nice to the guards, the investigator, the prosecutor or the judge. Your pleading only makes them despise you more.” All in all, It seems like the U.S. federal prison complex is the more Stalinist one, with all the solitary confinement games and efforts to prevent prisoners from developing support networks and obsessive fears along those lines; in addition the U.S. won’t put crooked members of the justice system in jail, while the Russians do. Again, thanks for the report from the inside. ↪ Reply Stuart Meade July 9 2016, 7:05 p.m. Thx for the good read Barrett and for getting the systemic nonsense meant to silence and bury prisoners in the system and protect the BOP from the law, out there. One question for a future column? Does this ‘stonewall’ extend to those attempting to get review of their convictions? ↪ Reply Lana July 9 2016, 6:55 p.m. Love to you Barrett. Thanks for documenting the outrageously unjust processes suffered by incarcerated persons & sorry you are going through this. Totally with you on both Franzen and Hegel. You might enjoy the very straightforward “Listen Little Man” by Wilhelm Reich, just a thought. ?? ↪ Reply Lana ↪ Lana July 9 2016, 6:57 p.m. Those question marks were supposed to be a smiley face, what a mystery ↪ Reply br'er rabbit July 9 2016, 6:35 p.m. Love the Hegel bits . . imagine the translator. I’d suggest “Jung’s seminar on Nietzsche’s Zarathustra” next but don’t want to destroy your angst. Look forward to your next dispatch. ↪ Reply Wnt July 9 2016, 4:48 p.m. Barrett Brown’s verbal flyswatter led me in a few steps to http://search.freedomarchives.org/search.php?view_collection=344 , a collection of the mimeographed newsletters of the “above-ground support group of the SLA”, and truly a wonderful resource for the budding historians around here. (Apparently the group would be much easier to understand if one or more of the people reporting about it in media would try) Alas, I don’t know if there’s any way he could read it. ↪ Reply Baldie McEagle July 9 2016, 3:09 p.m. Barrett had better be careful. Next time they will give him negative TWENTY days to comply. The bureaucrats are inhuman but, thankfully, they prefer round numbers that can easily be recorded. ↪ Reply Brian T July 9 2016, 2:13 p.m. Wonderful writing, Barrette. You are our new Hunter S. And though many do not realize it, we desperately need your artful pros in our lives. Not to mention your important work reviewing books. ↪ Reply Si1ver1ock July 9 2016, 2:06 p.m. I agree, Hegel is a bit of a chew. Instead, we should send Mr. Brown the collected books of Carlos Castaneda. Start with The Active Side of Infinity and read backwards. In solidarity with Mr. Brown , I shall reread the book Camp Concentratin by Thomas Disch. Louis Sacchetti is a poet and pacifist imprisoned for refusing to enlist in the war against Third World guerillas. Sacchetti and the other inmates are used in perverse scientific experiments, and Sacchetti is infected with a germ that raises intelligence to incredible heights while causing decay and death. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/553907.Camp_Concentration ↪ Reply Nate July 9 2016, 1:51 p.m. Poor Barrett. Thrown in the hole for refusing orders, drinking toilet hooch, and taking morphine. A real victim. ↪ Reply Brian T ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 2:06 p.m. “They hear me but they don’t FEEL me, though!” ↪ Reply John Kelly ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 4:17 p.m. Poor Nate, throws in his petty and sadistic little jabs, not realizing that he seems like an execrable little TWAT by comparison with the brilliant and hilariously anti-authoritarian human being he is attempting to smear. The poor Nate. It must feel very small. ↪ Reply Nate ↪ John Kelly July 9 2016, 8:31 p.m. How are they petty and jabs when he’s the one publishing them for all to see. At least I read them! You should as well, they give you a much better idea of what happens. Here’s some other facts from his file, some of which are just the full quotations that he referenced in his article: * “Mr. Brown has maintained poor institutional adjustment since his arrival at this facility on February 25, 2015. He has received two Greatest severity level Incident Reports.” * “His security level increased as a result of poor program participation, poor living skills, and three Incident reports.” * Barrett has paid less than one percent of his restitution. * When busted on opiate use, stated: “I am guilty, I did it.” Sanctions included 90-day loss of phone, email, commissary (ouch), visits (man, that’s harsh), and 30 days in the hole. “Inmate Brown…displayed a poor attitude during this investigation.” Barrett’s characterization of taking the morphine pill: “I’m afraid I’m back in the hold after failing my latest ‘random’ drug test which tested positive for one of the little morphine pills that people sell here. I know it was stupid of me, so it’s not necessary for everyone to explain that to me again. Please keep in mind that I’m an untreated substance abuser living in a ??? with literally a thousand drug dealers… * Two months before this, Barrett was placed in the hole for alcohol use. An officer searched “Brown’s locker and found a coffee mug full of homemade intoxicants” which “tested .400 with the Alco-sensor IV” (potent!!) When the officer questioned Brown if he was intoxicated he responded. “No, but have you?” (LOL). “He bought it from the hooch distributor within the unit.” “At his hearing he stated “I’m guilty.” This time “he displayed a fair attitude during the investigation.” * So to put this in a timeline, Barrett got sent to the hole for alcohol in June 2015. He got out in July 2015. One month later he was back in the hole for drugs. * Despite his abuse issues and comments about being untreated, his August 2015 Progress report says “Mr. Brown declined interest in the Residential Drug Abuse Program. He has not participated in any drug education programs.” The next review indicates he has to “enroll and complete the 100-hour drug abuse program within 12 months. Remain incident free until next review.” ↪ Reply Sillyputty ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 7:11 p.m. Dammit, Nate. I thought you were better than that. I was reserving Barret’s fantastically creative Hegel line for CraigSummers, but: “Shut the fuck up, Nate, you fucking fraud.” ↪ Reply Karl ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 7:56 p.m. Hey Nate, don’t let the rabble get you down. I suspect that Mr. Brown would rather have one honest response to this self-deprecating conveyance of his Sisyphean misadventures than a hundred obsequious reflections whose feigned sympathies utterly fail to reflect even a rudimentary understanding of the author’s comical madness as he attempts to reconcile his unfailing propensity for self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness in a penal system that is designed to view such behavior as being antithetical to its unyielding intention of frustrating, and eventually pacifying, such anti-authority impulses. ↪ Reply nfjtakfa ↪ Karl July 9 2016, 8:48 p.m. Say, decent “Fucking Hegel” impression. ↪ Reply Karl ↪ nfjtakfa July 9 2016, 9:26 p.m. Say, decent “Fucking Hegel” impression. This comment is a perfect case in point of those whose demonstrable ignorance requires them to reflexively focus on and reflect a single element of a deeply nuanced and highly sophisticated article with the hope that they too can be perceived as being aesthetically possessed of the author’s artistic sensibilities. Yes, we get it nfjtakfa… You hear him, and you feel him, and you would be him, but for the fact that you are not him. ↪ Reply Kitt ↪ Karl July 9 2016, 9:01 p.m. Excerpts: ‘The Elements of Style’ Strunk And White ↪ Reply Karl ↪ Kitt July 9 2016, 11:20 p.m. Hi Kitt. Long time, no insult. Let me respond to your criticisms of style by referring you to the opinions of your fellow sheep on such matters: Your fawning over the rules as if some benign entity made them is a pure authoritarian wet dream, and you are a petty oozing carbuncle… especially when compared to B.B. – John Kelly Nicely said. I’m reminded of the types who dwell on typos and grammar to avoid the content too. – Altohone ↪ Reply altohone ↪ Karl July 10 2016, 4:38 a.m. And, speaking of twats that aren’t here for the content… The true sheep can’t face reality. Baaaa. ↪ Reply Nate ↪ Karl July 9 2016, 9:22 p.m. Karl, I don’t even consider them a rabble, just some people commenting in a forum. I don’t believe their sympathy is faked (maybe hollow) but that they don’t know any way to express it other than fawning and drooling all over his articles. As if his pariah status renders his articles immune to criticism. They don’t seem to mind that in spite of Barrett’s intentions to “expose wrongdoing” in the prison system, he himself keeps breaking the rules and doing wrong. He mostly takes the low hanging fruit: talks about screaming in the SHU for comedic purposes, when a lot of people in SHU are mentally ill and not just creating funny material for TI; the guards are morons, admin staff cannot spell, etc. So as is clear, I don’t sympathize with Barrett’s self-inflicted plight. But reviewing his 177-page FOIA record attached to this article, the one thing that made me feel for the guy was seeing his visitor log: Mother, father, grandmother. That’s it for the timeframe presented. I’d imagine while serving time, you learn who your real friends and family are. ↪ Reply Karl ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 9:56 p.m. Karl, I don’t even consider them a rabble, just some people commenting in a forum. Rabble are defined by their tendency to act as a herd as they have a natural tendency to engage in group think. Group thinkers are reflexively prone to attacking anyone who reminds them that they themselves lack authenticity. It is deeply ironic (and highly humorous) that demonstrable group thinkers like Kitt, Mona, nfjtakfa etc. find themselves defending the very person who would clearly hold their type in utter contempt. ↪ Reply altohone ↪ Karl July 9 2016, 10:59 p.m. And, speaking of projection… ↪ Reply John Kelly ↪ Nate July 9 2016, 10:09 p.m. No. I enjoy the in-your-face bravery of this man. Your fawning over the rules as if some benign entity made them is a pure authoritarian wet dream, and you are a petty oozing carbuncle… especially when compared to B.B. Those, like you, who care more about rules than they do about the incredibly cruel punishment meted out by your sadistic masters, are mentally ill, empathy-free little toadies who just can’t resist piling on when someone is being made to suffer for no fucking reason. “He broke the rules”… oh well then, chop off his hands and make him eat them. No punishment is too harsh for these terrible rule breakers. ↪ Reply altohone ↪ John Kelly July 9 2016, 11:09 p.m. Nicely said. I’m reminded of the types who dwell on typos and grammar to avoid the content too. But I’m laughing that he spent time reviewing and quoting the FOIA release to attempt to defend himself by regurgitating information we all already knew but couldn’t care less about. ↪ Reply Nate ↪ John Kelly July 10 2016, 1:02 a.m. Your fawning over the rules as if some benign entity made them is a pure authoritarian wet dream Yep, I sleep with a copy of prison rules under my pillow. Seriously, it doesn’t take a genius to understand that a prison must have rules, including ones that restrict drugs and alcohol. Those, like you, who care more about rules than they do about the incredibly cruel punishment meted out by your sadistic masters, are mentally ill, empathy-free little toadies who just can’t resist piling on when someone is being made to suffer for no fucking reason. Made to suffer for no reason!? Alcohol and drugs = “no reason.” Got it! He broke the rules”… oh well then, chop off his hands and make him eat them. No punishment is too harsh for these terrible rule breakers. Very melodramatic. ↪ Reply John Kelly ↪ Nate July 10 2016, 1:42 a.m. Thanks for making the case for your consideration as authoritarian tool of the day. Winning! Rules that have excessive punishments attached are not about anything but sadism. I don’t give two fucks whether or not B.B. gets drunk or high… well, actually I think he should be able to if he so desires. There is no harm attached except for the punishment… the punishment that gives sad little fucks like yourself a such a raging hard-on. Prisons need to be abolished for non-violent “offenders”. They are place of rape, torture, medical neglect, and murder… not to mention taking people’s freedom for trite reasons. You are sick, and there is no cure for what ails you. ↪ Reply Nate ↪ John Kelly July 10 2016, 3:10 a.m. Thanks for making the case for your consideration as authoritarian tool of the day. sighs I think we need to wrap up this discussion. You get more juvenile by the moment. I don’t give two fucks whether or not B.B. gets drunk or high… well, actually I think he should be able to if he so desires. It really doesn’t matter what you think. Your safety isn’t at stake. Drugs + Alcohol + Criminals = What Could Go Wrong!? I’m sure that while pondering your decision you considered the safety of both the guards, inmates, and the public. Those rapist and murders that describe would surely show restraint with the drugs & liquor. Get a grip. The irony of your argument is that if a federal prison was knowingly allowing drinking and drug use, or facilitating its smuggling into the facility, there would be criminal charges directed at the staff involved. But Barrett is a brave guy so he get’s a waiver. Uh, no. Rules that have excessive punishments attached are not about anything but sadism. Hey, there is one thing we can agree on! Segregation should not be the punitive option of first resort, and that the list of punishments assessed for Barrett’s drinking and drug use was very harsh. Especially the length of stay in segregation and the removal of visitation. There is no harm attached except for the punishment… the punishment that gives sad little fucks like yourself a such a raging hard-on. Prisons need to be abolished for non-violent “offenders”. They are place of rape, torture, medical neglect, and murder… not to mention taking people’s freedom for trite reasons. You are sick, and there is no cure for what ails you. Again, stop typing your emotional response and ponder what harm there may be if inmates are using drugs and alcohol in the institution. This is not controversial. And spare me your faux indignation and breathless insinuation about hard-ons for punishment; it only makes you sound like a petulant child. ↪ Reply John Kelly ↪ Nate July 10 2016, 3:50 a.m. Impressive levels of stupidity demonstrated by authoritarian ass-hat. Thanks, very revealing. Harm? hah! The only harm is perpetrated by sadists like you. ↪ Reply Nate ↪ John Kelly July 10 2016, 4:32 a.m. Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong. I wish you a good night Mr. Kelly! ↪ Reply Rick ↪ John Kelly July 10 2016, 1:19 a.m. Well said. I’m passing this one on. ↪ Reply Donald Brown ↪ Karl July 10 2016, 12:00 a.m. Reactionaries are often a hoot, but pseudo-intellectual reactionaries are a hootenanny. How painful it must be to fall short of the level wittiness and intelligence one fancies oneself to possess. Perhaps belittling one’s superiors, like a yappy chihuahua nipping at the pack’s alpha’s ankles, offers some consolation, offers a fleeting sensation of adequacy. ↪ Reply Karl ↪ Donald Brown July 10 2016, 2:08 a.m. Reactionaries are often a hoot, but pseudo-intellectual reactionaries are a hootenanny. Reactionary? This is a very interesting charge. Care to provide one jot of evidence to back it up? I have dozens of posts on the intercept website – so you can begin there. Of course terms like “reactionary” become very malleable to anonymous putzes like yourself when challenged. Yet I am enticed by the prospect of your brilliance. Please enlighten us all with your insight and I will gladly consider the rest of your claim that you and yours are my “superior.” Absent that evidence however, you will just prove to be another one of Mona’s many sock puppets like nfjtakfa et al… (Hi Mona). keep it coming, every insult from the likes of you (and yours) is merely another feather in my bonnet. P.s. Nice touch using Barret’s last name. ↪ Reply bahhummingbug July 9 2016, 1:48 p.m. First of all Barrett Brown, chin up: it’s clear this fucking Hegel dude likes to talk just to hear his own head rattle. There’s a lot of that going around. He’s probably a big wig at some prestigious university of higher education. Having gone all the way through the 9th grade, I read Dune. While I enjoyed the book, I could detect no semblance between it and ‘the movie’. Idk what’s wrong with you … but it’s severe whatever it is. What I don’t understand is: why do you owe Peter Thiel money and how do you get/access Email? This sort of reminds me of the old riddle about the farmer who has a fox and a rooster and a bag of corn but can only take one at a time across the river in his boat and the fox will eat the rooster and the rooster will eat the corn if either pair is left together unattended (the solution, incidentally, is to shoot the fox, because it’s a fox). Ah, this is most likely why you’re in Jail Barrett Brown. First you take the chicken over. Then you take the bag of corn over and Bring Back the chicken. Then you take the Fox over. Finally, going back for the chicken again. xo bah. ↪ Reply metalgear July 9 2016, 12:39 p.m. Hang in there Barrett your half way thru I talked to you in the past on one of those mini-chatroom thingies you were brilliant and you still are When you get out you’ll stake your claim you already have a good job and rep ↪ Reply nfjtakfa July 9 2016, 12:35 p.m. You give me great hope, Alia, I too might survive such torment with humor and sanity intact. ↪ Reply From jnn at synfin.org Sun Jul 10 01:59:16 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 04:59:16 -0400 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On July 8, 2016 8:11:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >Alex Jones says the media should not ignore Putin's warnings of Alex Jones is completely fucking unhinged.. he is occasionally right in the same sense that some one shooting at a barn occasionally gets off a good shot. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Sun Jul 10 02:15:11 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 05:15:11 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> References: <577dc449.6726ed0a.ace26.ffffe1c6@mx.google.com> <20160707032803.GK30352@x220-a02> <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On July 8, 2016 8:50:40 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 09:24:24PM -0300, juan wrote: >> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:45:52 +1000 >> Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 05:23:16PM -0300, juan wrote: >> > > > Instead all we get is endless repetition of the western MSM >meme >> > > > "Russia illegally annexed Crimea". >> > > >> > > They did. >> > >> > How is a "legal" secession to happen, for it to be classified as >> > "legal"? >> >> People who want to join russia, join russia. People who don't >> want to, don't. And sane people who don't want to be governed >> by any mafia are left alone and 'stateless'. And this last kind >> of secession is the only meaningful one by the way. > >So then, why was the referendum in Crimea and the apparrently >overwhelming "want" of the people of Crimea to secede from Ukraine >and "join Russia", somehow "illegal"? That "referendum" was a fiasco. 90% turnout and 95% voted Mother Russia! Sounds like one of Koba's free and fair elections. -- John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From rtomek at ceti.pl Sat Jul 9 22:43:21 2016 From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:43:21 +0200 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709233613.GT30352@x220-a02> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> <20160709175234.GA9441@tau1.ceti.pl> <20160709233613.GT30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160710054321.GB9441@tau1.ceti.pl> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 09:36:13AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 07:52:34PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:33:58PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: [...] > > How can you stomach saying that and in the same breath you decry > America's most blatant coup in history overthrowing ... Ukraine?! > > > Oh, that's right, what America does is not bad, what Russia does cannot > be anything BUT bad, because, -Russians-! I can agree that Russia is no better than USA, only weaker and thus has to achieve its goals with different means. As of "bad because Russian", I do not say things like that. It is not my way. I suppose if I was actually prejudiced, you would be feeling much more comfortable... > And of course, you read Putin's Crimea speech. I am rather busy pursuing my things. Maybe I will spare a while over one of coming weekends. Did he delivered it somewhere on the net? Was it edited or is it presented as it was? > You must be Polish. Sorry, I mean American. Seems like you think there is something wrong with being one or another? > I won't dignify the rest with any further reply, you are trolling. Too bad we will not share our experiences with Russian language. But I have just learned about one guy, Dmitry Merezhkovsky. And Russian symbolism. Like I wrote, Russian culture is vast and rich, so whenever I look at it, I always come out with something interesting to learn about. So you called me a troll in just right moment. Thanks! -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 16:36:13 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 09:36:13 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160709175234.GA9441@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20160709030923.GB4063@tau1.ceti.pl> <20160709123358.GM30352@x220-a02> <20160709175234.GA9441@tau1.ceti.pl> Message-ID: <20160709233613.GT30352@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 07:52:34PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote: > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:33:58PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > This rhetoric—calling it an argument would overstate its relation > > > to facts—has recently come into vogue among Russian > > > historians. Under their interpretation of history, the struggle > > > that began with the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 > > > continues for Russia today, in a direct line through the > > > generations, with the conflict in Ukraine. That is the connection > > > President Vladimir Putin first presented to the Russian people in > > > March, when he sent his troops to invade and annex the Ukrainian > > > region of Crimea. > > > > "Invasion" of Crimea by Russia in 2014? Please! > > > > If the actions of Russia in the face of the Azov battalian's "peace > > train" to Crimea, a referendum, secession and joining to Russia, without > > a single bullet fired, is supposed to be a "Russian invasion", then the > > world does not have much to worry about with Russia. > > I guess Russia is no longer powerful enough to openly break treaties > it signed: > > [ > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances > > ] > > "The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three > identical political agreements signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5 > December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories > relating to Belarus', Kazakhstan's and Ukraine's accession to the > Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum > was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian > Federation, the United States of America, and the United > Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual > assurances in separate documents. > > The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use > of force against the territorial integrity or political > independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan." > > In light of this act, if I was responsible for Russian politics, and I > received a plea to join Russia by a foreign party belonging to country > which integrity I myself guaranteed - such a plea would smell rather > fishy to me. Unless, of course, I predicted great bonuses if I agree > and let them join me. Never mind that right now there is huge loss of > money for Russia, they will replenish their finances in a future, > somehow. How can you stomach saying that and in the same breath you decry America's most blatant coup in history overthrowing ... Ukraine?! Oh, that's right, what America does is not bad, what Russia does cannot be anything BUT bad, because, -Russians-! And of course, you read Putin's Crimea speech. You must be Polish. Sorry, I mean American. I won't dignify the rest with any further reply, you are trolling. > > I guess it would also be "assumed fact" that Russia continues, for over > > 2 years, to "invade" eastern Ukraine/ Donbass - I tell you this, if I > > had family living in Donbass who would struggle to defend themselves > > against various Ukraine "battallians", to defend their families, > > children, houses, friends, I would most likely have been fighting with > > them to help them defend the rest of my family, their house, friends > > etc. > > This works the other way too. How about people who want to defend > their families, children, houses and friends from living in Russia? > > > ISIS invades Syria, entering from Iraq, Turkey and other surrounding > > areas, provided weapons and training by CIA, and takes over towns and > > cities; THAT is an invasion. > > And I was so certain that daesh had been financed by some wealthy > people from Near East. > > [...] > > Saying black is white don't mean shit! > > Some people will believe just anything. > > [...] > > >From what I've seen from afar, it is. And up until about 2 years ago, I > > didn't know much about Russia... but I keep reading, Western as well as > > Russian propaganda. > > Oh, do you mean you know/learn Russian? Because this is the best way > to read Russian propaganda. Try to be like Aleksandr, who (I guess) > already knows Russian and learned English, so he can read the > propaganda from both sources without having to count on strangers' > good will and faithfulness. > > Actually, do not limit yourself to mere propaganda. It would have been > so cheap, you know. Russian culture is vast and rich. Try it. Some > names to explore, if you need a starter: Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Mikhail > Sholokhov, Isaac Babel, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Osip Mandelstam, > Mikhail Bulgakov, Varlam Shalamov. Some of them you can get for free, > from wikisources and other places. Even more of their works you can > find if you can read them from Russian wikisources. > > > > “The more people are convinced of their own opinion, the more they > > > become estranged from other opinions. That’s a real difficult > > > problem.” And as Russia sets out to redefine what Nazism means, it > > > is a problem that Western historians will somehow have to face. > > > > A good point here. Let's see how things play out over the next couple of > > years. > > Sure. > > > > > "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity.. > > > > > > I can only imagine when people find out about this, they will run like > > > hares and mad cows straight to non-western countries. > > > > We Westerners are well fed, well entertained, well schooled (not > > educated) and sadly very compliant with external authorities. > > > > Golden cages do -not- make for an honourable humans! > > I would say that cages made of barbed wire convert humans to > animals. So if I can choose, may I stay in my silver cage, please? It > does not really have to be golden one. > > > > Spread the word, > > > man. Also, buy your tickets while you can, before the mad crowd > > > prevents you from running away from this horrible place. Even better, > > > once you buy tickets, use them asap, go to your destination, meet your > > > dreams. Do not forget to drop few words to the list, so other lost > > > souls know what to expect outside. > > > > I would hope humans worthy of that noun, strive for something higher > > than a new car, 5 bedroom house and footy tickets. > > > > Yes, I keep dreaming. > > >From "Cancer Ward" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, as given on wikipedia [ > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Ward ]: > > (start quote) > > The most confusing thing about the imprisoned animals was that even > supposing Oleg took their side and had the power, he would still > not want to break into the cages and liberate them. This was > because, deprived of their home surroundings, they had lost the > idea of rational freedom. It would only make things harder for > them, suddenly to set them free. > > This was the odd way Kostoglotov reasoned. His brain was so twisted > that he could no longer see things simply and dispassionately. > Whatever he experienced from now on, there would always be this > shadow, this grey spectre, this subterranean rumbling from the > past. > > (end quote) > > -- > Regards, > Tomasz Rola From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 10:04:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:04:42 -0700 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 05:07 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:17:12PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> club. I spent my 18th in the Tombs, 100 Centre St. Manhattan Criminal >> court, for an anti-Vietnam war demo in 1971. >> >> https://twitter.com/StylistComplete/status/751978156123238400 >> >> > And did the protest change anything? My dad, A WWII army Colonel, later coordinator for tech writers (InfoSec) at NASA Huntsville, military NASA... Later a regional coordinator for the ADL in the Southeast US until his passing in the 2007 (He stalked the KKK with a bodyguard taking pics of the 'unhoooded' and passed other racist org intel along), in other words, 'a company man' told me a couple of years before he died, with some surprise in his voice: "You know? You kids stopped that war!" Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT LIKE what he was seeing. SOMETHING changed about US Foreign policy in a way he had not expected and he was looking at Pentagon 'Generals" on TV wondering if they even knew what they were talking about. My dad also had his security clearance threatened because of my teen antiwar activism. THE NYPD's "Red Squad" Capt. Finnegan, the 'silver fox', and his thugs, got my name after a guerrilla theater action and bust at NYU's Queens campus and passed it on to the feds who weren't aware I hadn't seen him for ten years and he had no say over me legally or otherwise. Now they'd know. And I didn't need Ed Snowden to inform me the US government spies on, and is scared of, it's own citizens. > > The protesters are protesting, the screwing is going on with some > damages from both sides. > > Long ago, an old man told me wars like in Vietnam were done for beta > testing of weapons and dangerous stuff, especially the side effects. Not so sure about Vietnam, an extractive resource war (Tungsten, tin, rubber, much more incl oil in the Spratlys, S China Sea, that Halliburton was test drilling for under mercenary and special forces protection) but later, and now, ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY. The only thing of value the US produces anymore is weapons systems, and it's hard to sell them unless they've been field tested. > > First they poison them, then they ``heal'' them... > See this musical informative vid (sorry FB only...Youtube DMCA pulled it) for more on that, and no they don't heal them, they let them die... or, as with 'Psychological Kevlar' pre-treating for PTSD and a bunch of other stuff, they use soldiers as guinea pigs. It's IN THE CONTRACT. They PWN you. I remember seeing pics of special forces guys shoveling Agent Orange into the hoppers of Bird Dog Cessnas in Vietnam's jungles bare-chested, without so much as a dust mask. I know a guy who has lung disease... He was in the Navy. His job was cleaning up ship hulls for repainting. They gave him basic dust masks but NEVER checked to make sure he was using it.. Not that the masks would have been effective but. Hence the title of that video: "The Pentagon: They Eat Their Own" Rr > > https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/birth-defects-caused-agent-orange > ==== > In the years following the Vietnam War reports, of high rates > of miscarriages, premature births, congenital birth defects, > and infant mortality began to surface from regions in Vietnam > where Agent Orange was used. > > the United States Government passed the Agent Orange Act. This act > mandates the US government to pay for the medical care of any > Vietnam War veteran, regardless of length of service, related to an Agent Orange disease. > > ==== > > IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs (some > for being brave) and some of the drugs were found to have very > adverse side effects. Don't have better reference ATM than this: > > http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs-that-built-a-super-soldier/477183/ > > === > The British philosopher Nick Land aptly described the Vietnam War as > “a decisive point of intersection between pharmacology and the technology of violence.” > > Committee on Crime revealed that from 1966 to 1969, the armed forces had > used 225 million tablets of stimulants, mostly Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), > an amphetamine derivative that is nearly twice as strong as the Benzedrine used in the Second World War. > > For the first time in military history, the prescription of potent antipsychotic > drugs like chlorpromazine, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKlinea ... became > routine. > === > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6247 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 10:15:08 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:15:08 -0700 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5782829C.3020009@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 01:59 AM, John wrote: > > On July 8, 2016 8:11:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> Alex Jones says the media should not ignore Putin's warnings of > Alex Jones is completely fucking unhinged.. he is occasionally right in the same sense that some one shooting at a barn occasionally gets off a good shot. > > John He's the PT Barnum, or should I say "The Donald Trump" of conspiracy theories. He's a marketer. He has no ideology because making money isn't an ideology and doesn't care what he says as long as it gets attention (Trump). I DO NOT KNOW why anyone bothers with his site. All the information there is generally available on the intertubz-at-large and there are other long-existent sites like Lew Rockwell (used to be 'right' but now seems to lean leftish), and Jeff Rense' site, which unfortunately followed Jones' flashy InfoMarketing lead. Maybe it's because (ahem) "Birds of a feather flock together"... In InfoWars case, Cuckoo birds. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 17:17:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:17:50 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> References: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> Message-ID: <20160710001750.GU30352@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 04:45:52PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote: > On 7/9/16 1:27 AM, Steve Furlong wrote: > > > "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! > > > > ... he says, using a communication medium invented by The West. > > > And empowered by freedom and free speech invented and protected by The > West, and the US in particular. It seems likely that the degree of > free speech in other Western countries came about, was extended, > and/or was protected because of the US First Amendment. > There was some existing precedent, Indeed, I'm pretty sure an "ug" emitted from the lips of at least one cave man. > Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. At least they invented free speech. From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 9 17:46:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:46:10 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <578192fc.042f370a.4cba.5ba4@mx.google.com> References: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> <578192fc.042f370a.4cba.5ba4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160710004610.GV30352@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:15:07PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:45:52 -0700 > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > > Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. > > Of course, of course. The US just need to finish off a few > million more niggers or hundreds of millions more 'foreigners' > worldwide, *then* it will be perfect. And the Rosicrucians are certainly not backward about being forward zbout their intentions in this regard (the Georgian monoliths or "guidestones"): "1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2602 From admin at pilobilus.net Sun Jul 10 09:30:36 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:30:36 -0400 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5782782C.8020004@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/10/2016 04:59 AM, John wrote: > > > On July 8, 2016 8:11:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness > wrote: >> Alex Jones says the media should not ignore Putin's warnings of > > Alex Jones is completely fucking unhinged.. he is occasionally > right in the same sense that some one shooting at a barn > occasionally gets off a good shot. Not sure about the "unhinged" part, he does seem to be able to keep his production company on-track and making money. But Alex Jones can't speak for 10 seconds without NEW WORLD ORDER AGENDA 21 breaking into his Orwellian "duckspeak" slogans ILLUMINATI MIND CONTROL to pound home the repetitive message of a completely CHEMTRAILS POPULATION REDUCTION false and superficial view of global politics that keeps the true believers UN TROOPS KICIKING IN YOUR DOORS from recognizing their real enemies and organizing WAKE UP SHEEPLE! themselves for effective resistance. That's a crude but effective FASCIST PROPAGANDA indoctrination technique. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXgngsAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqf5UH/AgeaHlTLbQpoIrUdDdDA1gJ DKDMJQNCF43HRUovXMh/y0LyR1g85p2tzniO71zDmN+0Im7pXGHFxDn/jRQf6H+d 0E/TFD2kF6I455MwslWWdQFkTKtrTK9bJQ1eWNnore67Um8c6far2pqq2e62wO6Y X7k27HcHDvXgba2exNLBP+PFLfIbnyllVPWByxv2/Os3PkUDvROJ6aVkA4P6U1bR VkUcB7OGvNbRtzAUM5rbnjU2ck/1NRFDvjAzSf4lQphzNQdtPR7KK7DK8M3GFW1h tiPRCRsknF1JM3J5lJS9Cspx8pwSsy6vCUEqAoNTfsheMoBMjZm59FGIT97SXDc= =GVXb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Sun Jul 10 09:59:47 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:59:47 -0400 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <5782782C.8020004@pilobilus.net> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> <5782782C.8020004@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <0CE4436E-AB23-46BA-ACEA-37F5C655EDE0@synfin.org> On July 10, 2016 12:30:36 PM EDT, Steve Kinney wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > > > >On 07/10/2016 04:59 AM, John wrote: >> >> >> On July 8, 2016 8:11:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness >> wrote: >>> Alex Jones says the media should not ignore Putin's warnings of >> >> Alex Jones is completely fucking unhinged.. he is occasionally >> right in the same sense that some one shooting at a barn >> occasionally gets off a good shot. > >Not sure about the "unhinged" part, he does seem to be able to keep >his production company on-track and making money. > >But Alex Jones can't speak for 10 seconds without NEW WORLD ORDER >AGENDA 21 breaking into his Orwellian "duckspeak" slogans ILLUMINATI >MIND CONTROL to pound home the repetitive message of a completely >CHEMTRAILS POPULATION REDUCTION false and superficial view of global >politics that keeps the true believers UN TROOPS KICIKING IN YOUR >DOORS from recognizing their real enemies and organizing WAKE UP >SHEEPLE! themselves for effective resistance. That's a crude but >effective FASCIST PROPAGANDA indoctrination technique. > Lol. If what you just described doesn't meet the definition of unhinged I don't know what does.. unless he's a great actor and just acts like a fucking nut for the money it brings. -- John From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 10 05:07:28 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:17:12PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > club. I spent my 18th in the Tombs, 100 Centre St. Manhattan Criminal > court, for an anti-Vietnam war demo in 1971. > > https://twitter.com/StylistComplete/status/751978156123238400 > > And did the protest change anything? The protesters are protesting, the screwing is going on with some damages from both sides. Long ago, an old man told me wars like in Vietnam were done for beta testing of weapons and dangerous stuff, especially the side effects. First they poison them, then they ``heal'' them... https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/birth-defects-caused-agent-orange ==== In the years following the Vietnam War reports, of high rates of miscarriages, premature births, congenital birth defects, and infant mortality began to surface from regions in Vietnam where Agent Orange was used. the United States Government passed the Agent Orange Act. This act mandates the US government to pay for the medical care of any Vietnam War veteran, regardless of length of service, related to an Agent Orange disease. ==== IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs (some for being brave) and some of the drugs were found to have very adverse side effects. Don't have better reference ATM than this: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/04/the-drugs-that-built-a-super-soldier/477183/ === The British philosopher Nick Land aptly described the Vietnam War as “a decisive point of intersection between pharmacology and the technology of violence.” Committee on Crime revealed that from 1966 to 1969, the armed forces had used 225 million tablets of stimulants, mostly Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), an amphetamine derivative that is nearly twice as strong as the Benzedrine used in the Second World War. For the first time in military history, the prescription of potent antipsychotic drugs like chlorpromazine, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKlinea ... became routine. === From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 12:28:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:28:31 -0300 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > > IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 12:36:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:36:41 -0300 Subject: 1, 400 US Mayors Just Slammed the White House for Risking Nuclear War With Russia In-Reply-To: <0CE4436E-AB23-46BA-ACEA-37F5C655EDE0@synfin.org> References: <20160707045325.GN30352@x220-a02> <577E974D.2080107@pilobilus.net> <20160709001153.GD30352@x220-a02> <5782782C.8020004@pilobilus.net> <0CE4436E-AB23-46BA-ACEA-37F5C655EDE0@synfin.org> Message-ID: <5782a334.0703370a.4df7.ffffc8bb@mx.google.com> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:59:47 -0400 John wrote: >.. unless he's a great actor and just > acts like a fucking nut for the money it brings. I wouldn't say 'great' actor. Just good enough to convince the audience to pay. Also, the idea of a world government isn't exactly unhinged, except the part about it being an european plot against poor innocent americans. > > -- > John From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 12:52:07 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:52:07 -0300 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5781CA7D.7010004@riseup.net> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <57815002.4666370a.3908e.4186@mx.google.com> <5781CA7D.7010004@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5782a6d1.fb29c80a.ff4ca.7ea4@mx.google.com> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:09:33 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > I like https://anarplex.net/hosted/files/last_trumpet/LTP.pdf :) A novel. Thanks! Let's see (or read...) From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 18:12:06 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:12:06 -0600 Subject: UN's WHO instructing Syrians to stop smoking In-Reply-To: <20160710233114.GY30352@x220-a02> References: <20160710233114.GY30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5782F266.4060607@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 05:31 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Won't someone please think of the Syrians.. > > "I can see the problem. While fleeing from air strikes, mass graves and > ethnic cleansing, Syrians have just got to resist the temptation of a > quick gasper to calm their nerves. Your home may be in flames, your > family enslaved, your torturers itching to pull out your fingernails – > but above all you've got to ignore the pretty ciggy packet in your > pocket." > > The UN has failed to protect Syrians from war and hunger. Now it’s > telling them to stop smoking > http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/un-failing-syrians-war-hunger-conflict-assad-isis-stop-smoking-robert-fisk-a7079306.html Well, US tobacco companies did an outstanding job of addicting the world! Maybe not as direct as nukes, but more effective long term. From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 18:16:38 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:16:38 -0600 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > >> >> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs > > Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. > > http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. I do like the newer stuff better :) From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 20:46:12 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:46:12 -0600 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5782f8a9.428b370a.73b37.2ee2@mx.google.com> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> <5782f8a9.428b370a.73b37.2ee2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57831684.7050603@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 07:41 PM, juan wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:16:38 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 >>> Georgi Guninski wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs >>> >>> Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. >>> >>> http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 >> >> It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. > > Who says they don't take 'speed' aka amphetamine anymore? > > > >> Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. >> > > morphine is an 'opiate'. Variety is the spice of life ;) >> I do like the newer stuff better :) >> > > It's all the same stuff. The change an atom here and there just > to be able to get new patents. Not the same at all :) From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 21:47:22 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:47:22 -0700 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578324DA.3050002@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 08:56 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/10/2016 07:34 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >> My dear Juan, >> >> Boyce was stupid and very injust, but he is not a bad person. I was >> talking about this kind of thing, testardo... :) >> >> Kisses and kicks! Take care! :* >> >> Ceci > It looks like sandstorm.io only accepts credit card payments. Bad :( Buy a throwaway Mastercard at a drug store Albeit they'll know whereabouts you bought it. > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Lina Srivastava" >> Date: Jul 10, 2016 9:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure >> communications platform for a survivors group >> To: "Griffin Boyce" >> Cc: "Lina Srivastava" , "liberationtech" < >> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu> >> >> Dear Griffin, >> >> Thank you very much! I will pass this information along. >> >> Best regards, >> Lina >> >>> Hi Lina, >>> >>> While the content isn't encrypted for most of their apps, I would >>> recommend Sandstorm as a good hosted option for forums and other >>> collaborative apps. It's free for up to 5 apps (called "grains") and up >>> to 200MB storage. For more, it's $9 a month: https://sandstorm.io/ >>> >>> For encrypted communication, Ricochet.im is pretty great and doesn't >>> require a lot of work to set up. It has sane defaults (requires Tor to >>> run). >>> >>> best, >>> Griffin >>> >>> >>> Lina Srivastava wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> A new support group for survivors of campus sexual assault is looking >>>> for a secure online communications platform. The group is not one of >>>> my clients, nor am I a member of or advisor to the group -- I am >>>> passing this request along as a favor -- so I have relatively little >>>> information about membership numbers, etc. I do believe everyone who >>>> is in the group is located in the U.S. or Canada. And they are looking >>>> for high security levels, giving survivors the ability to seek support >>>> from other members and to collectively organize for changes to policy >>>> and legislation on rape and assault. They are hoping to have >>>> password-protected login, private messaging, group forums, file share, >>>> all encrypted. >>>> >>>> Do any of you have advice for an existing platform that would provide >>>> this that is relatively affordable? >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> Lina >>> -- >>> Accept what you cannot change, and change what you cannot accept. >>> PGP: 0x03cf4a0ab3c79a63 >>> >> >> -- >> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of >> list guidelines will get you moderated: >> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, >> change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at >> companys at stanford.edu. >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 21:48:54 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:48:54 -0700 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <57831684.7050603@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> <5782f8a9.428b370a.73b37.2ee2@mx.google.com> <57831684.7050603@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57832536.2070906@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 08:46 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/10/2016 07:41 PM, juan wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:16:38 -0600 >> Mirimir wrote: >> >>> On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: >>>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 >>>> Georgi Guninski wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs >>>> Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. >>>> >>>> http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 >>> It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. >> Who says they don't take 'speed' aka amphetamine anymore? >> >> > >>> Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. >>> >> morphine is an 'opiate'. > Variety is the spice of life ;) > >>> I do like the newer stuff better :) >>> >> It's all the same stuff. The change an atom here and there just >> to be able to get new patents. > Not the same at all :) > > I just poke a lot of smot and leave the chemicals to the guinea pigs. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 10 20:56:03 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 21:56:03 -0600 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> On 07/10/2016 07:34 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > My dear Juan, > > Boyce was stupid and very injust, but he is not a bad person. I was > talking about this kind of thing, testardo... :) > > Kisses and kicks! Take care! :* > > Ceci It looks like sandstorm.io only accepts credit card payments. Bad :( > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Lina Srivastava" > Date: Jul 10, 2016 9:30 PM > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure > communications platform for a survivors group > To: "Griffin Boyce" > Cc: "Lina Srivastava" , "liberationtech" < > liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu> > > Dear Griffin, > > Thank you very much! I will pass this information along. > > Best regards, > Lina > >> Hi Lina, >> >> While the content isn't encrypted for most of their apps, I would >> recommend Sandstorm as a good hosted option for forums and other >> collaborative apps. It's free for up to 5 apps (called "grains") and up >> to 200MB storage. For more, it's $9 a month: https://sandstorm.io/ >> >> For encrypted communication, Ricochet.im is pretty great and doesn't >> require a lot of work to set up. It has sane defaults (requires Tor to >> run). >> >> best, >> Griffin >> >> >> Lina Srivastava wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> A new support group for survivors of campus sexual assault is looking >>> for a secure online communications platform. The group is not one of >>> my clients, nor am I a member of or advisor to the group -- I am >>> passing this request along as a favor -- so I have relatively little >>> information about membership numbers, etc. I do believe everyone who >>> is in the group is located in the U.S. or Canada. And they are looking >>> for high security levels, giving survivors the ability to seek support >>> from other members and to collectively organize for changes to policy >>> and legislation on rape and assault. They are hoping to have >>> password-protected login, private messaging, group forums, file share, >>> all encrypted. >>> >>> Do any of you have advice for an existing platform that would provide >>> this that is relatively affordable? >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Lina >> >> -- >> Accept what you cannot change, and change what you cannot accept. >> PGP: 0x03cf4a0ab3c79a63 >> > > > -- > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of > list guidelines will get you moderated: > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, > change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at > companys at stanford.edu. > From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 18:34:11 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 22:34:11 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> Message-ID: My dear Juan, Boyce was stupid and very injust, but he is not a bad person. I was talking about this kind of thing, testardo... :) Kisses and kicks! Take care! :* Ceci ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Lina Srivastava" Date: Jul 10, 2016 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group To: "Griffin Boyce" Cc: "Lina Srivastava" , "liberationtech" < liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu> Dear Griffin, Thank you very much! I will pass this information along. Best regards, Lina > Hi Lina, > > While the content isn't encrypted for most of their apps, I would > recommend Sandstorm as a good hosted option for forums and other > collaborative apps. It's free for up to 5 apps (called "grains") and up > to 200MB storage. For more, it's $9 a month: https://sandstorm.io/ > > For encrypted communication, Ricochet.im is pretty great and doesn't > require a lot of work to set up. It has sane defaults (requires Tor to > run). > > best, > Griffin > > > Lina Srivastava wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> A new support group for survivors of campus sexual assault is looking >> for a secure online communications platform. The group is not one of >> my clients, nor am I a member of or advisor to the group -- I am >> passing this request along as a favor -- so I have relatively little >> information about membership numbers, etc. I do believe everyone who >> is in the group is located in the U.S. or Canada. And they are looking >> for high security levels, giving survivors the ability to seek support >> from other members and to collectively organize for changes to policy >> and legislation on rape and assault. They are hoping to have >> password-protected login, private messaging, group forums, file share, >> all encrypted. >> >> Do any of you have advice for an existing platform that would provide >> this that is relatively affordable? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Lina > > -- > Accept what you cannot change, and change what you cannot accept. > PGP: 0x03cf4a0ab3c79a63 > -- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech. Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator at companys at stanford.edu. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3543 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 18:41:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 22:41:15 -0300 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5782f8a9.428b370a.73b37.2ee2@mx.google.com> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:16:38 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 > > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > > > >> > >> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs > > > > Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. > > > > http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 > > It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. Who says they don't take 'speed' aka amphetamine anymore? > > Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. > morphine is an 'opiate'. > I do like the newer stuff better :) > It's all the same stuff. The change an atom here and there just to be able to get new patents. From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 10 17:50:13 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 00:50:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <248810488.681181.1468198213872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Steve Kinney >> Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less >> equally powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. In >> science fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on some new >> technology that eliminates states' power monopoly. Maybe it'll be >> the Singularity. > > The pathway to the solution was described in 1995-95, by me: > https://cryptome.org/ap.htm > "Assassination Politics". "A couple of years ago, Forbes reported that 400 billionaires owned 1/2 the capital assets in the U.S." First, I should point out that to the extent that this may seem to be a problem,part of the problem is that behind the scenes, governments actuallymay be _promoting_ income inequality, rather than reducing it.  I'veseen an article that indicates that considered over the entire world economy,income inequality may have peaked in the 1980's, and has been loweringsince then.  To a great degree, that is because of world trade, and the fact that we (America) are getting manufactured goods from foreign countries, to anextent far different than in the, say, 1960's.   This strongly contrasts with thekind of people (leftists) who selectively point to income inequality within a singlenation, saying it is increasing. "In the face of this, I think AP may have a problem with scale:  How many small investors does it take to redirect AP profiteers away from targets chosen by factions among the ruling class, beginning with anyone suspected of operating the AP infrastructure and/or promoting it effectively to a wide audience of participants?" It's hard to target people when you don't know who they are.  In today's political world, people try to make changes by being loud and complaining.Potentially, this makes them targets while AP is turning on.  But I believe thatin a smoothly-functioning 'post-AP-transition' world, people simply don't needto complain.Or, they will be able to do so anonymously.  Would a very rich person havesort of special advantage in an AP world?  Well, he'd have a lot of money, but that would be just about the only advantage he has.  AP would effectively shut down governments, not merely shutting down the need for government, but also making it virtually impossible to run a large,or oppressive (or both) government.  This means that governments won't be able to funnel money to those people who (in today's world) eventually becomebillionaires. >If an AP lottery is not "fair and honest" by allowing anyone to be targeted regardless of occupation or etc., how long until ones that do allow any human to be bet on appear, with inflated bounties on perceived enemies of the ruling class?" Long ago, I realized that a fully-functioning, 'complete' AP system would eventually haveto somehow replace both the existing national defense system, as well as theexisting 'criminal justice' system. "Did somebody actually aggress on somebody else?" But initially, to get there, I think it would be sufficient to have an AP-organization with a much-simpler standard:  "Does the person named as the aggressor work for government atsome level?".    He's already aggressed.  No more proof is necessary. If, hypothetically, I was running such an AP system, I knew that I couldn't stop anyone else fromalso running a different AP system, different rules.  I imagined that this wouldn't (couldn't) be a monopoly, it would amount to a competition.  Some organizations (I'll label them "unethical") would accept bets on anyone.  Others, such as my own, would initially just have the initial"does he work for government" standard.  Over time, I believe that the "ethical" organizationswould have advantages, so they could do the equivalent of offering lower prices:The amount of their awards could be lower.  The "unethical" organizations would "do" anybody, but it would cost much more.  They would take higher profits, meaning that peoplewho had a genuine beef with someone else would tend to employ "ethical" systems.  "Business"would tend to shift.  Over time, the market will shift from "unethical" to "ethical".   Eventually, what amounted to "court systems" would be included, to decide whethera complaint was valid.  These "court systems" would, of course, be "voluntary",in the sense nobody would be required to appear, but the consequence of failure to appearwould be that 'bare AP' would operate:  If enough donations appeared to motivate somebody,that would happen.   >Mind you, AP is a frightfully clever idea. At the time I started writing the first part of AP in January-February 1995, I was entirely unaware  of the existence of the CP list, or documents such as Cyphernomicon:I had no direct access to the Internet, and the WWW.  In section 16.4.2 of Cyphernomicon  is the paragraph:  http://www.kreps.org/hackers/overheads/11cyphernervs.pdf "The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this technology, citingnational security concerns, use of the technology by drug dealers and tax evaders, andfears of societal disintegration. Many of these concerns will be valid; crypto anarchywill allow national secrets to be trade freely and will allow illicit and stolen materialsto be traded. An anonymous computerized market will even make possible abhorrentmarkets for assassinations and extortion." Despite my forming the idea essentially independently, even then I was not under any impression that I  was somehow inventing the concept of an  "assassination market", which I assumed at the time to be obvious.   Rather, I believed that  what  would usually be thought of such a market would be a system where "Anonymous Person A could hire Anonymous Person B to kill Person C."  Certainly that was a sufficiently  fascinating idea in the early 1990's to be worth discussing, but it occurred to me that if that was the only use made of it, few people want specific other peopledead enough to completely finance it themselves.  Far more interesting, the thing I really broughtto the table, would be the idea where tens, hundreds, thousands, or even millions of anonymous persons pool their donations, and offer to any number of potential assassins, such that the winning assassin gets his reward also anonymously.   THAT, I thought and still think, was a new concept.  That is not merely quantitatively different than 'your father's assassination market', but in fact qualitatively different:  Combine enough donations, no matter how tiny the individual ones are, and that will be plenty to buy death.  Further, offer those donations to an unlimited number of people, and the target will have no idea from where the killing blow will strike.  Each potential assassin knows he competing with all the rest. And once I thought of that idea, I've always believed that it was absolutely inevitable.  SOMEBODY was going to think of this, eventually.  It just happened to be me.               Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 16745 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 03:26:44 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 04:26:44 -0600 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57837464.4030407@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 03:55 AM, John wrote: > > > On July 10, 2016 9:16:38 PM EDT, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 >>> Georgi Guninski wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs >>> >>> Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. >>> >>> http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 >> >> It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. >> >> Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. >> >> I do like the newer stuff better :) > > Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*... > > John I mostly get off on thinking, and doing stuff. So it's stimulants that I like. And I prefer ones that don't cause anxiety and other craziness. But I do need to sleep, and sometimes I need help with that. And sometimes there is pain, and I need help with that. However, being zoned out on downers has never appealed. I'd rather just sleep. From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 02:55:44 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 05:55:44 -0400 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> Message-ID: On July 10, 2016 9:16:38 PM EDT, Mirimir wrote: >On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: >> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 >> Georgi Guninski wrote: >> >> >>> >>> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs >> >> Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. >> >> http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 > >It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. > >Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. > >I do like the newer stuff better :) Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*... John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 02:59:40 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 05:59:40 -0400 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160710225708.GA9998@x220-a02> References: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> <578192fc.042f370a.4cba.5ba4@mx.google.com> <20160710004610.GV30352@x220-a02> <20160710225708.GA9998@x220-a02> Message-ID: <06A2537D-5302-4016-A238-2E090D0966BF@synfin.org> On July 10, 2016 6:57:08 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:46:10AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:15:07PM -0300, juan wrote: >> > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:45:52 -0700 >> > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: >> > > Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. >> > >> > Of course, of course. The US just need to finish off a few >> > million more niggers or hundreds of millions more 'foreigners' >> > worldwide, *then* it will be perfect. >> >> And the Rosicrucians are certainly not backward about being forward >> zbout their intentions in this regard (the Georgian monoliths or >> "guidestones"): >> "1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with >> nature." >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones >> http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2602 > >US President Harry S. Truman in 1941: “If we see that Germany is >winning >the war, we ought to help Russia; and if that Russia is winning, we >ought to help Germany, and in that way let them kill as many as >possible. . . .” > >From here: > >NATO Marches Toward Destruction >"It is a Cold War that grows increasingly hotter..." >https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/08/nato-marches-toward-destruction/ > >(Alt: >http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nato-marches-toward-destruction/ri15506 >) Truman was a moron who never should have been president. Much better if Henry Wallace had stayed on the ticket as FDRs VP and been there to take over in 45. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 03:45:25 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 06:45:25 -0400 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <57837464.4030407@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> <57837464.4030407@riseup.net> Message-ID: <03E2DF5C-98DE-46EC-B7DF-2DC131F87010@synfin.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On July 11, 2016 6:26:44 AM EDT, Mirimir wrote: >On 07/11/2016 03:55 AM, John wrote: >> >> >> On July 10, 2016 9:16:38 PM EDT, Mirimir wrote: >>> On 07/10/2016 01:28 PM, juan wrote: >>>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:07:28 +0300 >>>> Georgi Guninski wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> IIRC, the USA gave its Vietnamese soldiers psychoactive drugs >>>> >>>> Correct tense is "gives", I dare say. >>>> >>>> http://archive.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2003/02/57434 >>> >>> It used to be amphetamines, barbiturates and morphine. >>> >>> Now it's modafinil, zolpidem or similar, and various opiates. >>> >>> I do like the newer stuff better :) >> >> Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it >on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*... >> >> John > >I mostly get off on thinking, and doing stuff. So it's stimulants that >I >like. And I prefer ones that don't cause anxiety and other craziness. > >But I do need to sleep, and sometimes I need help with that. And >sometimes there is pain, and I need help with that. However, being >zoned >out on downers has never appealed. I'd rather just sleep. When you've built a tolerance and don't fall out in a nod, opiates can be extremely stimulating .... I've had 8 hour bouts of creativity from opiate high more times than I can count, hacking code, pursuing intellectual interests, etc.... Of course the caveat here is the looming threat of addiction. Then again, methamphetamine will give a similar stimulating experience, even more focused, for 24 hours+.... but the accompanying crash is awful IMO, and it sometimes gives me unwanted anxiety. I stick to marijuana these days. ;) John -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFBBAEBCgArJBxrZXliYXNlLmlvL25peGVuIDxuaXhlbkBrZXliYXNlLmlvPgUC V4N4uwAKCRDjJCC+1Hp4x6RoCACpQog1C0/qAc5+YUIIRgUsgxPT+/PiLZMUlG5y oRmg/Ei7aRXJQgE/J0nOtdB1SkPRp8TCp4lAgimuSNi/B5IDfWgMKwzMWia9vZ5t VDhHfZsj6SVY5lbeqa9p2/mBHy0QjgGmFuI+JvU2iTVlYPRbJBeqmiqz8akPvrHR MQQOZkG7K9RkDwUTiPLDKeBd7WiqnrBm+5cJmsPl36eJg4qGV2Yz20zjMPTTJlgF dq+oqH0CQxx1X+w4ZH2jVqlOal7IjRZGDj7u4MoClROxj0cSa3lltp7bMNRQptOg srN9Bh/vKHKFHlZH6g6X25x0cZmvC6R1MXaqtl4L83bjVTrS =rjbV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 07:47:20 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:47:20 -0700 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <20160711132647.GA880@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> <20160711132647.GA880@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5783B178.3010403@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 06:26 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:04:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> "You know? You kids stopped that war!" >> >> >> Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it >> wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT > > Glad to hear this, but I am not sure it is true. > > Almost all protests have zero effects, not counting damages between > protesters and cops. "Occupy Wallstreet?". > Occupy Wall Steeet wasn't a focused protest it was a general insurrection and it was fun but insurrections either disintegrate or they are crushed. I'm talking about coordinated action on a single focus with tens of thousands of people in the streets all across the US and all sorts of side shows like continual sabotage of the system.... The "Dave Graebers" and other 'vanguard' types were there to fuck everything up too, but for the most part they has so little control over organizations that what happened on the street was not what they intended, but EVERYONE was FOCUSED ON THE WAR. EVERYONE knew someone killed or maimed in Vietnam, or their GF's brother was killed there. The US government was turning college students into cannon fodder with the draft and if your grades didn't keep up with the continually changing requirements of the selective service... changed to suit their manpower needs, off you went and your organized religion wasn't gonna help you either. They'd be glad to pray over your coffin and call you a hero though. This is why AUTOMATED WARFARE. It IS most likely the PRIMARY REASON for it Americans don't like to see the remains of their loved ones come home in a sack on a C-5a Globemaster and it undermines the Pentagon's ability to make war. Want to change things? Anything. It take two traits utterly lacking in American society at the moment. Rage and Focus. Richard Nixon may have sat in to Oval Orifice during the post-Cambodia invasion moratorium as the WH was surrounded by tens of thousands of people with a pitched street battle between protestors and swarms of cop on Pennsylvania Avenue. But he 'blinked', and the US began negotiating... Carpet bombing VIetnam at the same time with HUGE protests about that too, but within a few years it was "Helicopters from the embassy roof". Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 21:53:40 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 07:53:40 +0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> Message-ID: Oh yeah. That's definitely proves boyce is a goody goody guy. Illusions. Sweet illusions, Cecilia. By the way, Hitler ""LOVED"" animals. Especially deers. https://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/hitler-with-roe-deer.jpg And boyce likes to "help" sometimes with 3 sentences (3 cents) in the list. Wau. It proves so much. *Boyce sends you a big thank you for the PR you made him right now. *And that he'll bring you back to the tor list for your ""service"" (and don't tell me you didn't think about that opening this thread.Oh no. You just wanted to "open" our eyes to the goodness in boyce. oops). 2016-07-11 6:56 GMT+03:00 Mirimir : > On 07/10/2016 07:34 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > My dear Juan, > > > > Boyce was stupid and very injust, but he is not a bad person. I was > > talking about this kind of thing, testardo... :) > > > > Kisses and kicks! Take care! :* > > > > Ceci > > It looks like sandstorm.io only accepts credit card payments. Bad :( > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: "Lina Srivastava" > > Date: Jul 10, 2016 9:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure > > communications platform for a survivors group > > To: "Griffin Boyce" > > Cc: "Lina Srivastava" , "liberationtech" < > > liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu> > > > > Dear Griffin, > > > > Thank you very much! I will pass this information along. > > > > Best regards, > > Lina > > > >> Hi Lina, > >> > >> While the content isn't encrypted for most of their apps, I would > >> recommend Sandstorm as a good hosted option for forums and other > >> collaborative apps. It's free for up to 5 apps (called "grains") and up > >> to 200MB storage. For more, it's $9 a month: https://sandstorm.io/ > >> > >> For encrypted communication, Ricochet.im is pretty great and doesn't > >> require a lot of work to set up. It has sane defaults (requires Tor to > >> run). > >> > >> best, > >> Griffin > >> > >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3579 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 10 15:39:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:39:46 +1000 Subject: Russia had a first strike doctrine, to "handle" NATO expansion Message-ID: <20160710223946.GX30352@x220-a02> An interesting factoid. (Putin chose to not strike, so the doctrine has at least changed or otherwise gone... but who knows for sure.) NATO’s Summit in Warsaw and US Aggressiveness Eric Zuesse http://theduran.com/natos-summit-warsaw-us-aggression/ From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 10 15:57:08 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:57:08 +1000 Subject: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity! In-Reply-To: <20160710004610.GV30352@x220-a02> References: <2f0fbf15-a44f-6f64-76d0-962523a4d6c7@lig.net> <578192fc.042f370a.4cba.5ba4@mx.google.com> <20160710004610.GV30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160710225708.GA9998@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:46:10AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 09:15:07PM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:45:52 -0700 > > "Stephen D. Williams" wrote: > > > Which isn't to say that the US is perfect. > > > > Of course, of course. The US just need to finish off a few > > million more niggers or hundreds of millions more 'foreigners' > > worldwide, *then* it will be perfect. > > And the Rosicrucians are certainly not backward about being forward > zbout their intentions in this regard (the Georgian monoliths or > "guidestones"): > "1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with > nature." > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones > http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2602 US President Harry S. Truman in 1941: “If we see that Germany is winning the war, we ought to help Russia; and if that Russia is winning, we ought to help Germany, and in that way let them kill as many as possible. . . .” >From here: NATO Marches Toward Destruction "It is a Cold War that grows increasingly hotter..." https://consortiumnews.com/2016/07/08/nato-marches-toward-destruction/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/nato-marches-toward-destruction/ri15506 ) From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 10 16:31:14 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:31:14 +1000 Subject: UN's WHO instructing Syrians to stop smoking Message-ID: <20160710233114.GY30352@x220-a02> Won't someone please think of the Syrians.. "I can see the problem. While fleeing from air strikes, mass graves and ethnic cleansing, Syrians have just got to resist the temptation of a quick gasper to calm their nerves. Your home may be in flames, your family enslaved, your torturers itching to pull out your fingernails – but above all you've got to ignore the pretty ciggy packet in your pocket." The UN has failed to protect Syrians from war and hunger. Now it’s telling them to stop smoking http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/un-failing-syrians-war-hunger-conflict-assad-isis-stop-smoking-robert-fisk-a7079306.html From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 06:53:05 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:53:05 -0400 Subject: Stuxnet the movie Message-ID: <02e1b18a211472f9d46b3dcbd403b490@synfin.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/jul/08/alex-gibney-zero-days-cyberweapons-stuxnet - -- John Newman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXg6TCAAoJEOMkIL7UenjHzrMIALEmztK6tZ3pVc+N3Vi5ef1U ja+eXOJrn7YHhSDLHHlRZjAZ1TGAWHKQH1HflieJyUSgpQsJEuaahmTasWAAOshO DUZ0y6utpGYQWOz+gzM8/EYYYos/idRKZVmzFjDcWXdrueEmT7d+zsF0057qqrpD kWG62xF7SU/jbTcXZQYYoIvAylw+e1Pyy7IeRhBpp1y6cITRw6afPrGRtQwmRKVS zVIONUQAttnDzkqYnNKs02FND8lXjB5WZn2A2DRzElM541fkDKQIAhbzo5OZTd1L /sP5KZHpU6Uhym0WtSPKV45NThk+AP2NNof1YY16tZ3Wqd7w4e+Q9LHUFM3I5II= =25jq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 05:57:34 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:57:34 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 11, 2016 2:05 AM, "Александр" wrote: > > Oh yeah. > That's definitely proves boyce is a goody goody guy. > Illusions. Sweet illusions, Cecilia. > > By the way, Hitler ""LOVED"" animals. Especially deers. > https://retrieverman.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/hitler-with-roe-deer.jpg > And boyce likes to "help" sometimes with 3 sentences (3 cents) in the list. Wau. It proves so much. > > Boyce sends you a big thank you for the PR you made him right now. And that he'll bring you back to the tor list for your ""service"" (and don't tell me you didn't think about that opening this thread.Oh no. You just wanted to "open" our eyes to the goodness in boyce. oops). === No, I was just thinking about hardcore wild and hot sex with a guy who hates me. All that I want in my life is flirting with Boyce in public, using the cpunks list. Oh, the way he banned me was so sexy, Alex... How about telling everybody I was doing "ludicrous rape apologetics" in his inbox? Wow, it was really exciting! Learn with him how to seduce a woman, my dear! :-) Hahaha, talking seriously now... Alex, my dear, what is the problem with you in the last weeks? Your last messages had more "f*ck this, f*ck that" than my whole sexual life, you are much more aggressive than usual and you simply didn't read the message content, silly boy! :-/ When I forwarded the message, I was trying: 1) to annoy Juan a bit. I like him a lot and he knows it. 2) to ask for some help for Lina, showing her thread in another list (Liberation Tech). Both, list and thread,can be interesting for some people here, I suppose. 3) to prove that even Boyce is able of good things, like _everybody_ in this world. I have a lot of things in common with Hitler, Alex. I am a vegetarian who loves children, animals, books, painting and German people too. Am I a bad person because of my preferences? :-) Boyce wrote to Lina in private, not in public, giving her a suggestion. I really appreciate kind and spontaneous support acts. The fact he used three sentences doesn't care. In some moments, three simple words are enough. Some people can write books without saying something really relevant. Writing a lot doesn't mean anything, Alex. I don't know if Boyce is a member of cpunks list or not, but it doesn't care. I don't want to be part of tor-talk list again and I know he is too proud to apologize for being injust with his stupid allegations of rape apology. You don't know me enough, Alex. Don't try to judge my acts using your way of thinking as measure, please. We are very different. I don't know what "PR" means, but I probably will be annoied with you if I search for its meaning. I really did not understand the "service" part, but I am sure you were so injust as Boyce. Congratulations, Alexander. You did it like a boss... whoops, a Boyce! ;) Hihi... Take care, silly boy. :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3411 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 08:57:26 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 11:57:26 -0400 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5783B178.3010403@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> <20160711132647.GA880@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5783B178.3010403@riseup.net> Message-ID: <8EE009AA-5F5D-4CCD-9F83-E68D4B4AD0B7@synfin.org> > On Jul 11, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Rayzer wrote: > > > >> On 07/11/2016 06:26 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: >>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:04:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >>> "You know? You kids stopped that war!" >>> >>> >>> Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it >>> wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT >> >> Glad to hear this, but I am not sure it is true. >> >> Almost all protests have zero effects, not counting damages between >> protesters and cops. "Occupy Wallstreet?". > > Occupy Wall Steeet wasn't a focused protest it was a general > insurrection and it was fun but insurrections either disintegrate or > they are crushed. I'm talking about coordinated action on a single focus > with tens of thousands of people in the streets all across the US and > all sorts of side shows like continual sabotage of the system.... The > "Dave Graebers" and other 'vanguard' types were there to fuck everything > up too, but for the most part they has so little control over > organizations that what happened on the street was not what they > intended, but EVERYONE was FOCUSED ON THE WAR. > > EVERYONE knew someone killed or maimed in Vietnam, or their GF's brother > was killed there. The US government was turning college students into > cannon fodder with the draft and if your grades didn't keep up with the > continually changing requirements of the selective service... changed to > suit their manpower needs, off you went and your organized religion > wasn't gonna help you either. They'd be glad to pray over your coffin > and call you a hero though. > > This is why AUTOMATED WARFARE. It IS most likely the PRIMARY REASON for it > > Americans don't like to see the remains of their loved ones come home in > a sack on a C-5a Globemaster and it undermines the Pentagon's ability to > make war. > > Want to change things? Anything. It take two traits utterly lacking in > American society at the moment. > > Rage and Focus. Richard Nixon may have sat in to Oval Orifice during the > post-Cambodia invasion moratorium as the WH was surrounded by tens of > thousands of people with a pitched street battle between protestors and > swarms of cop on Pennsylvania Avenue. > > But he 'blinked', and the US began negotiating... Carpet bombing VIetnam > at the same time with HUGE protests about that too, but within a few > years it was "Helicopters from the embassy roof". > > Rr I wonder how different shit may have played out if Nixon hadn't been so blatantly crooked he was caught and impeached.... he dropped more explosives on Cambodia, and obfuscated the flight logs to hide it, than all the combined Allied bombings from ww2 John From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 11:44:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 15:44:15 -0300 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782a149.a72aed0a.a4ad.63d6@mx.google.com> <5782F376.1040804@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5783e867.7028c80a.2c597.0a2f@mx.google.com> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 05:55:44 -0400 John wrote: > > Diacetylmorphine has been an instant fucking hit since bayer put it > on the market 100+ years ago. *Shudders*... > Funny thing is, it was sold as a 'non-addictive' replacement for morphine... I thought it was 'invented' at bayer but it was actually first synthetized in 1874 in england. Bayer only trademarked it and did the marketing... > John > From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 11 06:26:47 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 16:26:47 +0300 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160711132647.GA880@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 10:04:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > "You know? You kids stopped that war!" > > > Yes... Yes we did. But NOT before we "Brought the war home", and it > wasn't JUST kids. BTW, he was alive for the invasion of Iraq and DID NOT Glad to hear this, but I am not sure it is true. Almost all protests have zero effects, not counting damages between protesters and cops. "Occupy Wallstreet?". From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 16:52:57 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:52:57 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57843159.9010704@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 05:33 PM, grarpamp wrote: > http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 > https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/99859 > https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf > https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf I was just about to post that. So I wonder whether it will be implemented. Dissent never was, as far as I know. I'd be up for hosting a Riffle server, if there were code and instructions somewhere. But I see nothing on GitHub about this Riffle. From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 16:57:48 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:57:48 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5784327C.8010700@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 05:33 PM, grarpamp wrote: > http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 > https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/99859 > https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf > https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf Ah: https://github.com/kwonalbert/riffle From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 17:49:16 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 18:49:16 -0600 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: <578432b2.93cf370a.43986.1e23@mx.google.com> References: <578432b2.93cf370a.43986.1e23@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57843E8C.3040405@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 06:01 PM, juan wrote: > On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:33:40 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > >> http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 > > > "But the recent discovery of vulnerabilities in the most > popular of these networks — Tor —" > > Recent? LMAO at these shitbags. On the other hand, what would > the tor bots say, now that it's vox populi at places like mit > that their beloved 'anonimity' scam doesn't work? Probably a reference to the relay early bug that CMU team exploited. > "The heart of the system is a series of servers called a > mixnet. " > > Go figure. I thought mixnets had been rejected by the greatest > geniuses of the crypto world, lead by that motherfucking > scumbag paul syverson? Or maybe that was a tor-thing too... The paper explains background: https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf Also Kwon's thesis: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 11 19:01:53 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:01:53 -0700 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Watch [Was: Boots] In-Reply-To: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57844F91.4060105@riseup.net> On 07/11/2016 04:49 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area > creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground > and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. Coulda woulda shouda... All I know is my dad, as mentioned previously, worked for NASA as a tech writer coordinator and also worked the Gemini and Apollo series. As a keepsake, he gave me one of those "Omega Moon Watches" that were mementos for mission workers. It wasn't a retail distribution which were all self-winders. It was an old fashioned wind-up. Why? They didn't know if a self-winder would work in Zero gravity... WHO ON FUCKING EARTH would bother to create a hoax so complex you'd have to do that to cover your ass? Rr Ps. the watch didn't keep time worth a shit and I sold it to a collector for a couple of hundred dollars. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:33:40 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:33:40 -0400 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity Message-ID: http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/99859 https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 16:41:54 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:41:54 -0400 Subject: Message from the front lines In-Reply-To: <5783B178.3010403@riseup.net> References: <5781CC48.5040903@riseup.net> <20160710120728.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5782802A.5060402@riseup.net> <20160711132647.GA880@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5783B178.3010403@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/11/16, Rayzer wrote: > Occupy Wall Steeet wasn't a focused protest it was a general > insurrection and it was fun but insurrections either disintegrate or > they are crushed. I'm talking about coordinated action on a single focus > with tens of thousands of people in the streets all across the US and > all sorts of side shows like continual sabotage of the system.... The > "Dave Graebers" and other 'vanguard' types were there to fuck everything > up too, but for the most part they has so little control over > organizations that what happened on the street was not what they > intended, but EVERYONE was FOCUSED ON THE WAR. https://theintercept.com/2016/07/11/images-militarized-police-baton-rouge-draw-global-attention/ Summer heat maybe bring em out... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 17:01:11 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:01:11 -0300 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578432b2.93cf370a.43986.1e23@mx.google.com> On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:33:40 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 "But the recent discovery of vulnerabilities in the most popular of these networks — Tor —" Recent? LMAO at these shitbags. On the other hand, what would the tor bots say, now that it's vox populi at places like mit that their beloved 'anonimity' scam doesn't work? "The heart of the system is a series of servers called a mixnet. " Go figure. I thought mixnets had been rejected by the greatest geniuses of the crypto world, lead by that motherfucking scumbag paul syverson? Or maybe that was a tor-thing too... From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 11 18:34:13 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:34:13 -0400 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: <578432b2.93cf370a.43986.1e23@mx.google.com> References: <578432b2.93cf370a.43986.1e23@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On July 11, 2016 8:01:11 PM EDT, juan wrote: >On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:33:40 -0400 >grarpamp wrote: > >> http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 > > > "But the recent discovery of vulnerabilities in the most > popular of these networks — Tor —" > > Recent? LMAO at these shitbags. On the other hand, what would > the tor bots say, now that it's vox populi at places like mit > that their beloved 'anonimity' scam doesn't work? > > > "The heart of the system is a series of servers called a > mixnet. " > > Go figure. I thought mixnets had been rejected by the greatest > geniuses of the crypto world, lead by that motherfucking > scumbag paul syverson? Or maybe that was a tor-thing too... > I run a low bandwidth tor relay (150K), just for kicks. It's not an exit node because I don't want the hassle that goes with that (my node name twentysevendollars). Sometimes I like to run network programs through torsocks for a little potential anonymity.... otherwise I don't even use tor much myself. I never made any promises to anyone about true anonymity. Am I a Pentagon employed duplicitous Americunt? Or just someone that likes to fuck around on his freebsd server? John From admin at pilobilus.net Mon Jul 11 21:21:44 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 00:21:44 -0400 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <248810488.681181.1468198213872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> <248810488.681181.1468198213872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57847058.5050401@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/10/2016 08:50 PM, jim bell wrote: > *From:* Steve Kinney >>> Also, anarchy seems to work best when everyone is more-or-less >>> equally powerful. Everyone has the same weapons, for example. >>> In science fiction, anarchist societies typically depend on >>> some new technology that eliminates states' power monopoly. >>> Maybe it'll be the Singularity. >> >> The pathway to the solution was described in 1995-95, by me: >> https://cryptome.org/ap.htm "Assassination Politics". > >> "A couple of years ago, Forbes reported that 400 billionaires >> owned 1/2 the capital assets in the U.S." > First, I should point out that to the extent that this may seem to > be a problem, part of the problem is that behind the scenes, > governments actually may be _promoting_ income inequality, rather > than reducing it. My own view is that the sole function of the State it to convert money into power, then back into money. Partial reinvestment of State partons' capital gains produces an accelerating feedback cycle, concentrating more money (=power) into fewer hands over time. I don't anticipate this changing as corporations become more sovereign and States less so. > I've seen an article that indicates that considered over the entire > world economy, income inequality may have peaked in the 1980's, and > has been lowering since then. To a great degree, that is because > of world trade, and the fact that we (America) are getting > manufactured goods from foreign countries, to an extent far > different than in the, say, 1960's. This strongly contrasts with > the kind of people (leftists) who selectively point to income > inequality within a single nation, saying it is increasing. I think that's a matter of perspective. Some of "poorest of the poor" have seen rising incomes, while the "middle class" in many industrialized jurisdictions has been taking a beating. But the billionaires, "statistically insignificant" in terms of head count, continue to dominate political activity due to the massive extent of income and assets inequality that appears at the very top of the scale. A couple of graphs based on U.S. statistics: http://www.lcurve.org/ (a real classic) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/this-depressing-c hart-shows-that-the-rich-arent-just-grabbing-a-bigger-slice-of-the-incom e-pie-theyre-taking-all-of-it/ - - or - https://tinyurl.com/gor6gdd (less extreme-looking aggregate numbers) >> "In the face of this, I think AP may have a problem with scale: >> How many small investors does it take to redirect AP profiteers >> away from targets chosen by factions among the ruling class, >> beginning with anyone suspected of operating the AP >> infrastructure and/or promoting it effectively to a wide audience >> of participants?" > It's hard to target people when you don't know who they are. In > today's political world, people try to make changes by being loud > and complaining. Potentially, this makes them targets while AP is > turning on. But I believe that in a smoothly-functioning > 'post-AP-transition' world, people simply don't need to complain. This raises the issue of implementation. In the case at hand, counter-anonymity is a question of money: How much money do you have, how badly do you want to prevent anonymous transactions? Remailers, onion and garlic routing, etc. are at present only somewhat resistant to an adversary who can observe much of the network, most of the time. I envision a briefing where a select group of U.S. billionaires and telco CEOs learn about AP and are told, "We must spend x trillion dollars over the next decade to keep this from happening." Rinse and repeat in other national and corporate jurisdictions. Ouch. > Or, they will be able to do so anonymously. Would a very rich > person have sort of special advantage in an AP world? Well, he'd > have a lot of money, but that would be just about the only > advantage he has. I believe that this advantage should be sufficient, given prevailing conditions as illustrated by the L-Curve graph mentioned above, and the imperfect nature of anonymity technologies available or envisioned today. The absurd spike at the top of the income scale gives a handful of individuals enormously disproportionate power, and they aim to keep it. > AP would effectively shut down governments, not merely shutting > down the need for government, but also making it virtually > impossible to run a large, or oppressive (or both) government. > This means that governments won't be able to funnel money to those > people who (in today's world) eventually become billionaires. I think that should be preceded with, "If successful." Funding a global, directly democratic freelance mercenary force targeting "abusers of" power would not produce a post-AP world overnight. Exhausting the defensive and counter-offensive resources of today's ruling class would take time. Assuring that assets pass intact from deceased owners to their heirs and assignees is already a core function of the State, so killing individual billionaires might introduce turbulence but would not remove the problem of "minority rule by violent means." I think it would be likely to lead to wide scale ultra-violent responses. >> If an AP lottery is not "fair and honest" by allowing anyone to >> be targeted regardless of occupation or etc., how long until ones >> that do allow any human to be bet on appear, with inflated >> bounties on perceived enemies of the ruling class?" > Long ago, I realized that a fully-functioning, 'complete' AP system > would eventually have to somehow replace both the existing national > defense system, as well as the existing 'criminal justice' system. > "Did somebody actually aggress on somebody else?" But initially, to > get there, I think it would be sufficient to have an > AP-organization with a much- simpler standard: "Does the person > named as the aggressor work for government at some level?". He's > already aggressed. No more proof is necessary. > Over time, I believe that the "ethical" organizations would have > advantages, so they could do the equivalent of offering lower > prices: The amount of their awards could be lower. The "unethical" > organizations would "do" anybody, but it would cost much more. I have my doubts. The cost of overcoming the defences of a President would be astronomically higher than the costs and risks of overcoming the defences of, for instance, an independent journalist. This would mandate a much higher bounty on the former. Conversely, public demand for removing an unpopular President would also be proportionally higher - a mitigating factor. Conversely x2, that President's backers might consider certain journalists worth paying over-market prices to remove, as her efforts might eventually aim the AP process at them personally. > They would take higher profits, meaning that people who had a If, > hypothetically, I was running such an AP system, I knew that I > couldn't stop anyone else from also running a different AP system, > different rules. I imagined that this wouldn't (couldn't) be a > monopoly, it would amount to a competition. Some organizations > (I'll label them "unethical") would accept bets on anyone. > Others, such as my own, would initially just have the initial "does > he work for government" standard. genuine beef with someone else > would tend to employ "ethical" systems. "Business" would tend to > shift. Over time, the market will shift from "unethical" to > "ethical". It seems to me that replacing an unjust and inequitable system of governance enforced by the threat of murder, with a more just and fair system of governance enforced by murder would not produce results that most would consider ethical. Not to say that, if successfully implemented as envisioned, it would necessarily be worse than what we have today. > Eventually, what amounted to "court systems" would be included, to > decide whether a complaint was valid. These "court systems" would, > of course, be "voluntary", in the sense nobody would be required to > appear, but the consequence of failure to appear would be that > 'bare AP' would operate: If enough donations appeared to motivate > somebody, that would happen. A "Court" is a forum governed by a sovereign authority, where petitions and arguments are heard and decisions on the application of sovereign authority are made. A Court whose sole function is to authorize murder could dispense revenge, but never justice: Every sovereign in every war throughout history has presented its casus belli as the defense of human life, and the fact that war is tolerated by enough people to make it possible demonstrates that application of a "non-aggression principle" in conjunction with decisions to hire and direct murderers can not be entrusted to either sovereigns or a peasant rabble. >> Mind you, AP is a frightfully clever idea. > At the time I started writing the first part of AP in > January-February 1995, I was entirely unaware of the existence of > the CP list, or documents such as Cyphernomicon: I had no direct > access to the Internet, and the WWW. In section 16.4.2 of > Cyphernomicon is the paragraph: > http://www.kreps.org/hackers/overheads/11cyphernervs.pdf > > The State will of course try to slow or halt the spread of this > technology, citing national security concerns, use of the > technology by drug dealers and tax evaders, and fears of societal > disintegration. Many of these concerns will be valid; crypto > anarchy will allow national secrets to be trade freely and will > allow illicit and stolen materials to be traded. An anonymous > computerized market will even make possible abhorrent markets for > assassinations and extortion." > > Despite my forming the idea essentially independently, even then I > was not under any impression that I was somehow inventing the > concept of an "assassination market", which I assumed at the time > to be obvious. Ever since the appearance of hierarchical societies with capital assets to defend, assassination markets of a sort, e.g. military and police activities, have been the bedrock of political and economic systems. The anonymity element has traditionally been partial and figurative - decisions to commit State sanctioned murder are "nothing personal" in the sense that they are supported by consensus across committees and syndicates, automated to the fullest extent possible (law, policy, due process), and paid for by small payments from large numbers of peasants who have been persuaded to tolerate murder for hire "for the greater good." Those who do the actual killing are absolved of liability because they are "faceless cogs in the machne" only following orders. The AP model radically streamlines and democratizes, but does not remove, today's process of controlling people via murder "for the greater good of the greater number." If the practical barriers to its implementation could be overcome, AP might be an improvement over present methods. Revenge is not justice, but unlike justice it can at least be played as a formal game. AP markets would eventually provide great entertainment, in the form of assassin vs. assassin contests triggered by contentious "hits." Crowdfunding contract killers to identify and kill other contract killers could evolve into a full replacement for today's professional athletic amusements. > Rather, I believed that what would usually be thought of such a > market would be a system where "Anonymous Person A could hire > Anonymous Person B to kill Person C." Certainly that was a > sufficiently fascinating idea in the early 1990's to be worth > discussing, but it occurred to me that if that was the only use > made of it, few people want specific other people dead enough to > completely finance it themselves. Far more interesting, the thing > I really brought to the table, would be the idea where tens, > hundreds, thousands, or even millions of anonymous persons pool > their donations, and offer to any number of potential assassins, > such that the winning assassin gets his reward also anonymously. > THAT, I thought and still think, was a new concept. That is not > merely quantitatively different than 'your father's assassination > market', but in fact qualitatively different: Combine enough > donations, no matter how tiny the individual ones are, and that > will be plenty to buy death. Further, offer those donations to an > unlimited number of people, and the target will have no idea from > where the killing blow will strike. Each potential assassin knows > he competing with all the rest. > And once I thought of that idea, I've always believed that it was > absolutely inevitable. SOMEBODY was going to think of this, > eventually. It just happened to be me. The seeds were everywhere. Lots of twistid visionaries saw assassination markets coming, though none worked out the details to make it (nearly) practicable - that was waiting on applicable technology. - From Subvert Comix #3, by Spain Rodriguez, 1976: http://pilobilus.net/xfer/Subvert_no3_pg35.jpg But again, the devil is in the details: Thus far it looks to me like the twin problems of anonymity that is not reliably anonymous, and the vast scale of financial resources presently controlled by the segments of the population who are AP's likeliest targets, are outstanding problems complicating AP's implementation. Back in 1984 I was interviewed by a non-human intelligence, who briefly explained why it was self evidently necessary to remove 90% of the Earth's human population and asked for authorization to proceed. I could not fault his case, but I did impose a condition on my acceptance of his offer: Proceed only if everyone faces an equal chance of removal - no favoritism or exemptions of any kind allowed. Apparently a compliant solution is taking quite a long time to implement. But as and when it is, many of the problems AP would combat would be greatly reduced, as would the practical barriers to AP's implementation. Although a "better future" was not promised or even implied, I am cautiously optimistic... :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhHBYAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqPyEH/RNxnDR6tlDwgsqDN1IZCqKk op1g/MCUQgpn/+UDGatCeVEeaBXoM4e3NQRIH8tlM6Jpxm51guviVbMlK+jGDg5t jVv8FvbDyWQkm7Pu+eSjYMFMHx9ctbdusP6ImTLhWrlxpHYdPfUGU5eA/hOpp3EV QnmVNZt8JbmRwhns4dIu6qnNY320loo9p2AvXgE/JxaP1Q+V3iGDla1isorH3gOd 5m6/WU3fzZo1wd9o+0srRZ+bwl7rxau2WTMrt1w1/54w2crtGEcPaOr4bv4oiDLt 3OATbof6mC5GddGNVv6cThCnnl1MxM0eO7UYO7YFWk2mEYYwr5mUGxkydG6YXcM= =1ial -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 02:32:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:32:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fwd: Re: [liberationtech] Need some advice re: online secure communications platform for a survivors group In-Reply-To: <578324DA.3050002@riseup.net> References: <8fa9979a1355d6f5c8dc1f7b4dac53e0@cryptolab.net> <578318D3.9080906@riseup.net> <578324DA.3050002@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/11/16, Rayzer wrote: > Buy a throwaway Mastercard at a drug store Albeit they'll know > whereabouts you bought it. Sorry, these days these require kyc, and if that doesn't match up to all the data selling / sharing / mining, they're gonna aml your balance straight to themselves, permanently. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 02:44:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:44:56 -0400 Subject: US Congress Grabbing More PATRIOT Ass Message-ID: http://rare.us/story/congress-is-going-to-try-to-expand-the-patriot-act-tonight-and-hopes-no-one-will-notice/ http://www.majorityleader.gov/floor/ http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20160711/HR5606.pdf https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/aml2007/fincen-314afactsheet.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/patriot/index.html?r=1&id=314#314 Congress is going to try to expand the Patriot Act tonight and hopes no one will notice July 11, 2016 2:42 pm In the wake of recent mass shootings, Monday night the U.S. House of Representatives is scheduled to vote on an expansion of the Patriot Act, which significantly broadened government surveillance powers after 9/11. The proposed bill, H.R. 5606, expands Section 314 of the Patriot Act to cover non-terrorism or money laundering related investigations. Critics claim that the bill is a threat to the privacy of innocent Americans and is being rammed through Congress without debate. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 02:49:09 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:49:09 -0400 Subject: US Congress Grabbing More PATRIOT Ass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5607/text From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 02:50:57 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:50:57 -0400 Subject: US Congress Grabbing More PATRIOT Ass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.heritage.org/issues/legal/overcriminalization From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 12 07:42:40 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 07:42:40 -0700 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <578501E0.2080305@riseup.net> On 07/12/2016 06:54 AM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > 12.07.2016, 16:48, "Tom" : >>> This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area >>> creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground >>> and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. >> No atmosphere, no blowing. >> >> - Tom > He's talking about the module thrusters, you don't need atmosphere to blow particles on the ground. > And they drop right back down pretty much where they stirred from. Ever worked in a machine shop that had banks of Negative Ion Generators in the ceiling for dust control? Like that. Ps. Didn't the LE module use the smaller outrigger thrusters to land? I don't think the main engine was operational as it approached the surface b/c minimal gravity so it's not like the thing needed massive energy to keep from a hard touchdown. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 12 07:51:29 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 07:51:29 -0700 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: <20160712140702.GD4387@r4> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> <20160712140702.GD4387@r4> Message-ID: <578503F1.3040306@riseup.net> On 07/12/2016 07:07 AM, Tom wrote: >>> No atmosphere, no blowing. >> He's talking about the module thrusters, you don't need >> atmosphere to blow particles on the ground. > Ok. It's been debunked anyway: > http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/1691/why-didnt-the-apollo-11-lander-blow-the-dust-away-or-why-does-it-look-like-it > > > - Tom > Well I stand corrected. It was the "Electrical opposite" of what I stated in my last post. Positive Ionic charge, not negative. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 12 08:03:39 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 08:03:39 -0700 Subject: zero days - should they be sent somewhere? In-Reply-To: <20160712090818.GS30352@x220-a02> References: <20160712090818.GS30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578506CB.8040606@riseup.net> On 07/12/2016 02:08 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Wondering if zero days spam should be sent somewhere, or just ignored? > Flush twice... It's a long way to NSA-HQ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 12 05:33:33 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 08:33:33 -0400 Subject: Fwd: An open letter to security researchers and practitioners In-Reply-To: <578038B9.40504@eff.org> References: <578038B9.40504@eff.org> Message-ID: -------- Original Message -------- From: Jeremy Gillula Sent: July 8, 2016 7:35:21 PM EDT To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: An open letter to security researchers and practitioners An open letter to security researchers and practitioners: We need you to take a stand to protect security researchers who report defects in browsers, before it's too late. Earlier this month, the World Wide Web Consortium's Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) spec progressed to Draft Recommendation phase. This is a controversial standard for transmitting DRM-encumbered videos, and it marks the very first time that the W3C has attempted to standardize a DRM system. This means that for the first time, W3C standards for browsers will fall under laws like the DMCA (and its international equivalents, which the US Trade Representative has spread all over the world). These laws allow companies to threaten security researchers who disclose vulnerabilities in DRM systems, on the grounds that these disclosures make it easier to figure out how to bypass the DRM. Last summer, the Copyright Office heard from security researchers about the effect that DRM has on their work; those filings detail showstopper bugs in consumer devices, cars, agricultural equipment, medical implants, and voting machines that researchers felt they couldn't readily publish about, lest they face punitive lawsuits from the companies they embarrassed. EFF has asked the W3C to take a minimal step to insulate their stakeholders from the legal fallout from the inclusion of DRM in their standards. Our proposal asks the W3C to bind its members to legal promises not to use the DMCA or laws like it against security researchers or implementers. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/06/w3c-eme-and-eff-frequently-asked-questions So far, the W3C executive has failed to act on this proposal, despite diverse support from a number of W3C members. We are hosting an open letter from security, privacy and technology experts to the W3C's director, Tim Berners-Lee; and its CEO, Jeff Jaffe, asking them to make any further work on EME contingent on adopting rules to protect the open web from these bad laws. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/03/security-researchers-tell-w3c-protect-researchers-who-investigate-browsers Will you sign this letter? Some of security's leading lights have already put their names to it. We can't afford to make widely used tools like browsers off-limits to security research and disclosure, especially not as HTML5 is being positioned as a UI environment to replace apps as the primary way of interacting with sensors, actuators, embedded systems and the whole Internet of Things. If you're willing to sign on, please send an email to cory at eff.org with your country of residence and your institutional affiliation (if any). Thank you, Cory Doctorow Apollo 1201 Project Electronic Frontier Foundation -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3801 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidthomasnix at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 05:44:46 2016 From: davidthomasnix at gmail.com (David Nix) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 08:44:46 -0400 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: Googling for "Neil Armstrong's boots" returns tons of photographs of the protective outer overshoe boot cover... Just sayin... :-) On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Sound like rather compelling questions to me. > But I'm not a physicist, and I never worked for Nike or a boot maker, so > I couldn't begin to say how ripple soles got left behind on the Moon. > > Bah humbug ... prolly someone conspired to think of a theory. > > > ----- Forwarded message from Gil May ----- > From: Gil May > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:21:54 +1000 > Subject: Neil Armstrong's Boots > > No one has answered my simple question, instead of providing an answer they > want to call me names and say I am a conspirator--I am not, I am just > asking a fair question. > > When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the lunar surface he left a deep footprint > in the dust showing a *ripple soled imprint, *the photo was shown all > around the world. The landing module was about 3 meters in diameter and the > thrust rocket central: from “NASA Launch Vehicle/Spacecraft Key Facts > , > LM descent stage maximum rated thrust = 9,870 lbf (43,904 N)”. This > massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area > creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground > and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. > > [image: Inline image 3] > > In July, 46 years to the day after the first moon walk, the *Smithsonian's > National Air and Space Museum* in Washington, D.C., started its first > Kickstarter campaign, asking for money to preserve the spacesuit Neil > Armstrong wore when he stepped off Apollo 11 onto the moon in 1969. Oct 15, > 2015 > > How the Smithsonian Will Save Neil Armstrong's Spacesuit > > *www.popularmechanics.com/ > space/moon-mars/a17583/neil-armstrong-spacesuit* > > [image: Inline image 2] > [image: Inline image 1] > NASA verified this was the actual space suit worn by Neil Armstrong, > interesting to see the boots have no ripple sole. Please explain NASA. My > father often said “Do not ask difficult questions you upset folk and get > called names”. > > > Oh Dear! > Cheers From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 11 16:49:12 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:49:12 +1000 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots Message-ID: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> Sound like rather compelling questions to me. But I'm not a physicist, and I never worked for Nike or a boot maker, so I couldn't begin to say how ripple soles got left behind on the Moon. Bah humbug ... prolly someone conspired to think of a theory. ----- Forwarded message from Gil May ----- From: Gil May Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:21:54 +1000 Subject: Neil Armstrong's Boots No one has answered my simple question, instead of providing an answer they want to call me names and say I am a conspirator--I am not, I am just asking a fair question. When Neil Armstrong stepped onto the lunar surface he left a deep footprint in the dust showing a *ripple soled imprint, *the photo was shown all around the world. The landing module was about 3 meters in diameter and the thrust rocket central: from “NASA Launch Vehicle/Spacecraft Key Facts , LM descent stage maximum rated thrust = 9,870 lbf (43,904 N)”. This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. [image: Inline image 3] In July, 46 years to the day after the first moon walk, the *Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum* in Washington, D.C., started its first Kickstarter campaign, asking for money to preserve the spacesuit Neil Armstrong wore when he stepped off Apollo 11 onto the moon in 1969. Oct 15, 2015 How the Smithsonian Will Save Neil Armstrong's Spacesuit *www.popularmechanics.com/ space/moon-mars/a17583/neil-armstrong-spacesuit* [image: Inline image 2] [image: Inline image 1] NASA verified this was the actual space suit worn by Neil Armstrong, interesting to see the boots have no ripple sole. Please explain NASA. My father often said “Do not ask difficult questions you upset folk and get called names”. Oh Dear! Cheers From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 12 01:43:48 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:43:48 +0300 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160712084348.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 07:33:40PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 Interesting. So far read only this (it is for dummies). Is riffle resistant to active timing attacks (possibly from internal nodes)? Can sufficiently many malicious nodes cause total DOS? (I suspect they will decrease performance at least). From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jul 12 09:05:13 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 12:05:13 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] Putin goes full Stasi; wants encryption keys for the Internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57851539.5060408@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/08/2016 01:45 PM, grarpamp wrote: > Long live p2p? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Henry Baker > Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:15:46 -0700 > Subject: [Cryptography] Putin goes full Stasi; wants encryption > keys for the Internet To: cryptography at metzdowd.com > > FYI -- > > https://meduza.io/en/news/2016/07/07/putin-gives-federal-security-agen ts-two-weeks-to-produce-encryption-keys-for-the-internet > > Putin gives federal security agents two weeks to produce > 'encryption keys' for the Internet Considering his professional background, it seems unlikely that Mr. Putin would consider such a thing to be possible. If such a demand has been made possible reasons include demonstrating that it can't be done. The laughably short deadline suggests an effort to "keep the story alive" in public view for some propaganda purpose. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhRU5AAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqp1cH/0m4DoOtBhTnBX0vsfmOGbZ7 MALGpIbGKd8u9Y69U83JL6iguO7O3avYn+3VbJIhXQhxCeZdhOmnPGvxdIlDXPFv H/vQfSTdNMyQjMiexl8RSHa4IWsE+wp9a2UQ81stPT4FP3UijYCHhK6AqpyWLvCD A7sbCZLGSgflFG65jqjEvjaTzS9t2iTvhj1ix3no8YT/Gr9TMVw5nMzXl5umQil4 r+pSChVRgX/mAZ+YWZMvE9mXXfzIXwFGU/MoJt+IEQBhrqryb20p71mvW7tXfgVI wFFSiP/6YyjY3YuIY2uQZkmvKgx4sGNPXq6t2Qy84mC6cb4Jr3nQCRImclN7h9E= =0CVV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nadine at iinet.net.au Mon Jul 11 22:34:51 2016 From: nadine at iinet.net.au (Nadine Earnshaw) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:34:51 +0800 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Watch [Was: Boots] In-Reply-To: <20160712040942.GN30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <807db3cb373e44d65c115466c4a161883f9e3c0a@mail.iinet.net.au>   with the number of staff that work at nasa how exactly would it be that they were all in on the conspiracy?way too many people to have such a thing pulled off in secrecy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zenaan Harkness" To: Cc: Sent:Tue, 12 Jul 2016 14:09:42 +1000 Subject:Re: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Watch [Was: Boots] On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 07:01:53PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/11/2016 04:49 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area > > creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground > > and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. > > > Coulda woulda shouda... All I know is my dad, as mentioned previously, > worked for NASA as a tech writer coordinator and also worked the Gemini > and Apollo series. As a keepsake, he gave me one of those "Omega Moon > Watches" that were mementos for mission workers. It wasn't a retail > distribution which were all self-winders. It was an old fashioned wind-up. > > Why? They didn't know if a self-winder would work in Zero gravity... > > WHO ON FUCKING EARTH would bother to create a hoax so complex you'd have > to do that to cover your ass? Certainly not a retailer acting in naieve self interest, and who has no inside access to the set being used to fake the landings and moon rover films. > Rr > Ps. the watch didn't keep time worth a shit and I sold it to a collector > for a couple of hundred dollars. PS No one said Omega watch company was in on the conspiracy! Who on firetrucking earth would bother to consider they were? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2352 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 11 21:09:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 14:09:42 +1000 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Watch [Was: Boots] In-Reply-To: <57844F91.4060105@riseup.net> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <57844F91.4060105@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160712040942.GN30352@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 07:01:53PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/11/2016 04:49 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area > > creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground > > and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. > > > Coulda woulda shouda... All I know is my dad, as mentioned previously, > worked for NASA as a tech writer coordinator and also worked the Gemini > and Apollo series. As a keepsake, he gave me one of those "Omega Moon > Watches" that were mementos for mission workers. It wasn't a retail > distribution which were all self-winders. It was an old fashioned wind-up. > > Why? They didn't know if a self-winder would work in Zero gravity... > > WHO ON FUCKING EARTH would bother to create a hoax so complex you'd have > to do that to cover your ass? Certainly not a retailer acting in naieve self interest, and who has no inside access to the set being used to fake the landings and moon rover films. > Rr > Ps. the watch didn't keep time worth a shit and I sold it to a collector > for a couple of hundred dollars. PS No one said Omega watch company was in on the conspiracy! Who on firetrucking earth would bother to consider they were? From s at ctrlc.hu Tue Jul 12 06:04:20 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:04:20 +0200 Subject: [tor-talk] Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: <57843159.9010704@riseup.net> References: <57843159.9010704@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160712130420.GO6938@ctrlc.hu> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 05:52:57PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/11/2016 05:33 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 > > https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/99859 > > https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf > > https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf > > I was just about to post that. > > So I wonder whether it will be implemented. Dissent never was, as far as > I know. https://github.com/DeDiS/Dissent -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From tom at vondein.org Tue Jul 12 06:28:10 2016 From: tom at vondein.org (Tom) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:28:10 +0200 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> > This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area > creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground > and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. No atmosphere, no blowing. - Tom From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 12:43:47 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:43:47 -0400 Subject: Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/4sebaw/mit_anonymity_network_promises_to_be_more_secure/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12073942 http://dedis.cs.yale.edu/dissent/ From tom at vondein.org Tue Jul 12 07:07:02 2016 From: tom at vondein.org (Tom) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:07:02 +0200 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160712140702.GD4387@r4> > > No atmosphere, no blowing. > He's talking about the module thrusters, you don't need > atmosphere to blow particles on the ground. Ok. It's been debunked anyway: http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/1691/why-didnt-the-apollo-11-lander-blow-the-dust-away-or-why-does-it-look-like-it - Tom From bastianifortress at yandex.com Tue Jul 12 06:54:36 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:54:36 +0300 Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: 2420000010667585728 References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> Message-ID: <806691468331676@web23h.yandex.ru> 12.07.2016, 16:48, "Tom" : >>  This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area >>  creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground >>  and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. > > No atmosphere, no blowing. > > - Tom He's talking about the module thrusters, you don't need atmosphere to blow particles on the ground. From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jul 12 14:52:56 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 17:52:56 -0400 Subject: The Laws (was the principles) of secure information systems design In-Reply-To: <57855EC8.1020705@m-o-o-t.org> References: <57855EC8.1020705@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <578566B8.3010409@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/12/2016 05:19 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > I've been revising the principles, and came up with this. It's an > early version. [ ... ] > The Laws of secure information systems design: > > Law 0: It's all about who is in control Law 1: Someone else is > after your data Law 2: If it isn't stored it can't be stolen Law 3: > Only those you trust can betray you Law 4: Attack methods are many, > varied, ever-changing and eternal Law 5: The entire system is > subject to attack Law 6: A more complex system has more places to > attack Law 7: Holes for good guys are holes for bad guys too Law 8: > Kerckhoffs's Principle rulez! - usually... Law 9: A system which is > hard to use will be abused or unused law 10: Design for future > threats Law 11: Security is a Boolean Law 12: People offering the > impossible are lying Law 13: Nothing ever really goes away Law 15: > "Schneier's law c" [1] holds illimitable dominion over all... > including these laws I call these "Network Security Axioms." You will recognize most of them, I am sure. A couple are originals. Everything is under control; your control or someone else's. A trusted system is one that can break your security model. A hardened perimeter is easily broken; a hardened system, not so much. The laws of nations are easily broken; the laws of physics, not so much. In God we trust, all others provide full source code for peer review. Given enough observers, all bugs are shallow. To make a system stronger, attack it. Physical access can compromise any network security model. A failed data backup may cost more than a successful break-in. An unexamined assumption is a ticking time bomb. User refusal is the principal barrier to secure networking. Three years old, but holding up fairly well: http://pilobilus.net/comsec-101.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhWa4AAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqg/YIAIqudvOHmV2r1n2fNzZCtMnO Hv9QhnwiWmer09SC6bZrDfX7U6hr/M2/nEn5d8aqrypZV4PYpZRYxW5ld3FEVU1Z HCQAP+zTEZGxBuZIzHAcniUfDrH5lCvCt9PBMOkrfrV6xh5kqbLoTSpWFcOYunnI 5MUXTFX3MqjwbvG1m7ObKYXWMBLUxII+pHhPbKN9NgxiHXUaJVdvl1lMs/z+inUM vUTyjj9EASqUcfGNykdFamEmIDyEh4+K2z2nlt7mneKzv+vXGpcEa2ZqroDl+1a/ ozFTivDR7vBJmsCdnlLcPbwNkGtSMzRiveV216q4zT9WidoZMQpMwodEBgVOY8c= =1Rre -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 12 10:55:07 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 17:55:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The Moon landing again - Fw: Neil Armstrong's Boots In-Reply-To: <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> References: <20160711234912.GK30352@x220-a02> <20160712132810.GC4387@r4> Message-ID: <2071664322.1874694.1468346107263.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Tom >> This massive thrust would have blown the dust away from the landing area >> creating a massive dust cloud, so why was thick dust still on the ground >> and no massive dust cloud? Please explain NASA. >No atmosphere, no blowing.    - Tom I'd answer this somewhat differently.  The rocket jet would indeed dislodge the dust:  The particleswould acquire velocities, and would follow mostly-parabolic paths and eventually collide with and stayon the surface again. While this might be labelled a "cloud", unlike in Earth's atmosphere these particles will presumably return to the Moon's surface in a few seconds, yet far away from the lunar lander. As to "why was thick dust still on the ground", most likely the dust was very thick.  (many meters).From:   http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/letss/regolith.pdf "The lunar surface is covered by a layer ofunconsolidated debris called the lunar regolith (fig. 53).The thickness of the regolith varies from about 5 m onmare surfaces to about 10 m on highland surfaces. Thebulk of the regolith is a fine gray soil with a density ofabout 1.5 g/cm3, but the regolith also includes brecciaand rock fragments from the local bedrock (reviewsby Heiken et al. 1974 and Papike et al. 1982). Abouthalf the weight of a lunar soil is less than 60 to 80 micronsin size. The grain size distribution is given in figure 55." There may be an additional factor.  As I vaguely recall, there is an odd electrostatic attraction between the particles of lunar soil.  Perhaps not surprising, because except for subsurfacefrozen-water deposits (and some polar craters) the moon is 'dry as a bone'.   -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 12 02:08:18 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 19:08:18 +1000 Subject: zero days - should they be sent somewhere? Message-ID: <20160712090818.GS30352@x220-a02> Wondering if zero days spam should be sent somewhere, or just ignored? From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 12 03:15:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 20:15:52 +1000 Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57847058.5050401@pilobilus.net> References: <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> <248810488.681181.1468198213872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57847058.5050401@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160712101552.GT30352@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 12:21:44AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 07/10/2016 08:50 PM, jim bell wrote: > > *From:* Steve Kinney > > Over time, I believe that the "ethical" organizations would have > > advantages, so they could do the equivalent of offering lower > > prices: The amount of their awards could be lower. The "unethical" > > organizations would "do" anybody, but it would cost much more. > > I have my doubts. The cost of overcoming the defences of a President > would be astronomically higher than the costs and risks of overcoming > the defences of, for instance, an independent journalist. This would > mandate a much higher bounty on the former. Conversely, public demand > for removing an unpopular President would also be proportionally > higher - a mitigating factor. Conversely x2, that President's backers > might consider certain journalists worth paying over-market prices to > remove, as her efforts might eventually aim the AP process at them > personally. Is this a fundamental weakness of AP? Descent into hell for anyone with intense motivation to change the existing system for the better - just one example being "no journalist safe from a vengeful William/ Bill Browder" for example: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/oh-browder-almighty-he-passes-laws-congress-and-censors-worldwide-media/ri15465 > > They would take higher profits, meaning that people who had a If, > > hypothetically, I was running such an AP system, I knew that I > > couldn't stop anyone else from also running a different AP system, > > different rules. I imagined that this wouldn't (couldn't) be a > > monopoly, it would amount to a competition. Some organizations > > (I'll label them "unethical") would accept bets on anyone. > > Others, such as my own, would initially just have the initial "does > > he work for government" standard. genuine beef with someone else > > would tend to employ "ethical" systems. "Business" would tend to > > shift. Over time, the market will shift from "unethical" to > > "ethical". > > It seems to me that replacing an unjust and inequitable system of > governance enforced by the threat of murder, with a more just and fair > system of governance enforced by murder would not produce results that > most would consider ethical. Not to say that, if successfully > implemented as envisioned, it would necessarily be worse than what we > have today. I agree. I am starting to see absolutely no guarantees of an outcome of "better". > > Eventually, what amounted to "court systems" would be included, to > > decide whether a complaint was valid. These "court systems" would, > > of course, be "voluntary", in the sense nobody would be required to > > appear, but the consequence of failure to appear would be that > > 'bare AP' would operate: If enough donations appeared to motivate > > somebody, that would happen. > > A "Court" is a forum governed by a sovereign authority, where > petitions and arguments are heard and decisions on the application of > sovereign authority are made. A Court whose sole function is to > authorize murder could dispense revenge, but never justice: Every > sovereign in every war throughout history has presented its casus > belli as the defense of human life, and the fact that war is tolerated > by enough people to make it possible demonstrates that application of > a "non-aggression principle" in conjunction with decisions to hire and > direct murderers can not be entrusted to either sovereigns or a > peasant rabble. Sounds correct. Is it possible to remove the emotional "revenge" element, and surely the extremely wealthy would be most able to act in accordance with any "emotional revenge" element that they personally experience, or that they can manipulate the public into experiencing by the oligarch's control of the media consumed by the masses... Looks pretty bleak on the face of it.. > But again, the devil is in the details: Thus far it looks to me like > the twin problems of anonymity that is not reliably anonymous, and the > vast scale of financial resources presently controlled by the segments > of the population who are AP's likeliest targets, are outstanding > problems complicating AP's implementation. Also, it "feels" 'unenlightened' - "surely there's a better way" etc > Back in 1984 I was interviewed by a non-human intelligence, who > briefly explained why it was self evidently necessary to remove 90% of > the Earth's human population and asked for authorization to proceed. > I could not fault his case, but I did impose a condition on my > acceptance of his offer: Proceed only if everyone faces an equal > chance of removal - no favoritism or exemptions of any kind allowed. > Apparently a compliant solution is taking quite a long time to > implement. But as and when it is, many of the problems AP would > combat would be greatly reduced, as would the practical barriers to > AP's implementation. > > Although a "better future" was not promised or even implied, I am > cautiously optimistic... I do not share your optimism on this one. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 12 20:25:36 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 21:25:36 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] Riffle: an efficient communication system with strong anonymity In-Reply-To: <20160712130420.GO6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <57843159.9010704@riseup.net> <20160712130420.GO6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <5785B4B0.2060004@riseup.net> On 07/12/2016 07:04 AM, stef wrote: > On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 05:52:57PM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/11/2016 05:33 PM, grarpamp wrote: >>> http://news.mit.edu/2016/stay-anonymous-online-0711 >>> https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/99859 >>> https://people.csail.mit.edu/devadas/pubs/riffle.pdf >>> https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/99859/927718269-MIT.pdf >> >> I was just about to post that. >> >> So I wonder whether it will be implemented. Dissent never was, as far as >> I know. > > https://github.com/DeDiS/Dissent OK, but is there a network of appreciable size? From peter at m-o-o-t.org Tue Jul 12 14:19:04 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 22:19:04 +0100 Subject: The Laws (was the principles) of secure information systems design Message-ID: <57855EC8.1020705@m-o-o-t.org> I've been revising the principles, and came up with this. It's an early version. As ever, corrections and suggestions are welcome. Calling them Laws is perhaps a bit overreaching - but on reflection I thought that's mostly what they are, break them and the system won't be secure. I will put the Laws up on the 'net shortly, hopefully with a link for suggestions and comments. The Laws of secure information systems design: Law 0: It's all about who is in control Law 1: Someone else is after your data Law 2: If it isn't stored it can't be stolen Law 3: Only those you trust can betray you Law 4: Attack methods are many, varied, ever-changing and eternal Law 5: The entire system is subject to attack Law 6: A more complex system has more places to attack Law 7: Holes for good guys are holes for bad guys too Law 8: Kerckhoffs's Principle rulez! - usually... Law 9: A system which is hard to use will be abused or unused law 10: Design for future threats Law 11: Security is a Boolean Law 12: People offering the impossible are lying Law 13: Nothing ever really goes away Law 15: "Schneier's law c" [1] holds illimitable dominion over all... including these laws -- Peter Fairbrother [1] " a: Anyone, from the most clueless amateur to the best cryptographer, can create an algorithm that he himself can't break. It's not even hard. b: What is hard is creating an algorithm that no one else can break, even after years of analysis. c: And the only way to prove that is to subject the algorithm to years of analysis by the best cryptographers around." From peter at m-o-o-t.org Tue Jul 12 16:17:42 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 00:17:42 +0100 Subject: The Laws (was the principles) of secure information systems design In-Reply-To: <578566B8.3010409@pilobilus.net> References: <57855EC8.1020705@m-o-o-t.org> <578566B8.3010409@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57857A96.8040608@m-o-o-t.org> On 12/07/16 22:52, Steve Kinney wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 07/12/2016 05:19 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote: >> I've been revising the principles, and came up with this. It's an >> early version. The laws of secure information systems design: Law 0: It's all about who is in control Law 1: Someone else is after your data Law 2: If it isn't there it can't be stolen Law 3: Only those you trust can betray you Law 4: Attack methods are many, varied, ever-changing and eternal Law 5: The entire system is subject to attack Law 6: A more complex system has more places to attack Law 7: Openings for good guys are openings for bad guys too Law 8: Kerckhoffs's Principle rules Law 9: A system which is hard to use will be abused or unused law 10: Design for future threats Law 11: Security is a Boolean Law 12: People offering the impossible are lying Law 13: Nothing ever really goes away Law 15: "Schneier's law c" holds illimitable dominion over all... including these laws > I call these "Network Security Axioms." You will recognize most of > them, I am sure. A couple are originals. Yes, I especially recognise 1,2, 7-11. If you don't mind, I might include something with 8 and 9: as-is the "Laws" are a bit too theoretical, and too skewed towards security over availability. I have always regarded the "Principles", soon to be "Laws", as mostly widespread and preexisting, and more of a communal than an individual effort - (revised) two come from Schneier, one from Satoshi, two from Jerry Leichter, several others are just well-known homilies recast - with myself more as an editor and arranger than anything else. In fact I would like to see them written so as to be applicable to all systems, not just especially secure systems, or systems which have to be secure. But that is even harder... -- Peter Fairbrother > Everything is under control; your control or someone else's. > > A trusted system is one that can break your security model. > > A hardened perimeter is easily broken; a hardened system, not so much. > > The laws of nations are easily broken; the laws of physics, not so much. > > In God we trust, all others provide full source code for peer review. > > Given enough observers, all bugs are shallow. > > To make a system stronger, attack it. > > Physical access can compromise any network security model. > > A failed data backup may cost more than a successful break-in. > > An unexamined assumption is a ticking time bomb. > > User refusal is the principal barrier to secure networking. > > Three years old, but holding up fairly well: > http://pilobilus.net/comsec-101.html > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhWa4AAoJEECU6c5Xzmuqg/YIAIqudvOHmV2r1n2fNzZCtMnO > Hv9QhnwiWmer09SC6bZrDfX7U6hr/M2/nEn5d8aqrypZV4PYpZRYxW5ld3FEVU1Z > HCQAP+zTEZGxBuZIzHAcniUfDrH5lCvCt9PBMOkrfrV6xh5kqbLoTSpWFcOYunnI > 5MUXTFX3MqjwbvG1m7ObKYXWMBLUxII+pHhPbKN9NgxiHXUaJVdvl1lMs/z+inUM > vUTyjj9EASqUcfGNykdFamEmIDyEh4+K2z2nlt7mneKzv+vXGpcEa2ZqroDl+1a/ > ozFTivDR7vBJmsCdnlLcPbwNkGtSMzRiveV216q4zT9WidoZMQpMwodEBgVOY8c= > =1Rre > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 00:01:43 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:01:43 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <5785E757.1000807@riseup.net> On 07/12/2016 11:58 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Hey all! Just a simple question out of curiosity; i see pgp signed mails going > round in the mailing list, but where do you keep your public keys, and how am i > supposed to get them? Does the mailing list have its own keybase, or do you just > sign your messages to look cool :) > > (Also, here, have a cookie: https://xkcd.com/1181/) I started signing posts to tor-talk to make a point. And also, I was feeling paranoid after someone started spoofing email addresses :) For me, see https://keybase.io/mirimir :) From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 00:04:59 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:04:59 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/13/2016 12:44 AM, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't > understand signatures and their purposes. OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed message with a valid signature :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhegLAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+rWkH/0NIgwqxlGVVNX+cOgVbvABt dfUnwJcWIOVN+GsV6BQaOXF4FnVP4SYXnmmoL3RnrZA4b+pXDSAQxpyeVxsrIFCw dYNmwUOoy/cIsy16CTJufUqQqbDGiCXfK3wpmlgFxzGccTG3zS+gSmh/Po77IFsm nnkuHKSlu1VgvtmXa/FTtg4KSrtS2jg+Vjh7sFGYbXK8maGQUuLVWg7blPtFcOod Xca40Iy8SAj4rwhUMEdE43Au1fo523OpCPqubW0uSGlpPbrzPNfixHENFolBGoZP h4a0bRTdMZYfSbxhpeFh6/5QkgsBl80JS3w90kieUtDWn32HYuUEXqIpujBv2ro= =P9K+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 00:32:04 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:32:04 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 01:13 AM, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 08:44:53AM +0200, stef wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > if you'd know how to use ml archives you'd have found my similar question from > 1-2 years ago and the answers to that. I'll take that as a "no", until the message shows up :) From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 01:19:46 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 02:19:46 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <5785edfe.c233ed0a.db894.1df3@mx.google.com> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> <5785edfe.c233ed0a.db894.1df3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5785F9A2.1010107@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 01:32 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:04:59 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > On 07/13/2016 12:44 AM, stef wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >>>>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) >>>> >>>> it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't >>>> understand signatures and their purposes. > > OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed > message with a valid signature :) > > >> The thing is, who would bother spoofing your messages? (nothing >> personal) Sure of that? >> Plus, beig able to DENY that you wrote something looks like one >> of the few nice features that email has... Why would I want to deny having written something as Mirimir? I'd just use a different account. From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 02:41:21 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 03:41:21 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <57860CC1.9060404@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 03:34 AM, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:32:04AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/13/2016 01:13 AM, stef wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 08:44:53AM +0200, stef wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >>>>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) >>> >>> if you'd know how to use ml archives you'd have found my similar question from >>> 1-2 years ago and the answers to that. >> >> I'll take that as a "no", until the message shows up :) > > you're not worth my time. sorry. I still take that as a no ;) From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 02:54:21 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 03:54:21 -0600 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713093351.GU6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> <20160713093351.GU6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <57860FCD.7020306@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 03:33 AM, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:04:59AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/13/2016 12:44 AM, stef wrote: >>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >>>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) >>> >>> it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't >>> understand signatures and their purposes. >> >> OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed >> message with a valid signature :) > > ok, i see you understand the primary goal of pgp signatures. i also see, that > usually you don't sign here your messages, both of this i approve of. OK, sorry to be touchy. You were criticizing someone else, after all. I thought that you were arguing that signatures didn't prevent forgery. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 00:32:37 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 04:32:37 -0300 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5785edfe.c233ed0a.db894.1df3@mx.google.com> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:04:59 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 07/13/2016 12:44 AM, stef wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > >> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > > > it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't > > understand signatures and their purposes. > > OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed > message with a valid signature :) The thing is, who would bother spoofing your messages? (nothing personal) Plus, beig able to DENY that you wrote something looks like one of the few nice features that email has... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhegLAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+rWkH/0NIgwqxlGVVNX+cOgVbvABt > dfUnwJcWIOVN+GsV6BQaOXF4FnVP4SYXnmmoL3RnrZA4b+pXDSAQxpyeVxsrIFCw > dYNmwUOoy/cIsy16CTJufUqQqbDGiCXfK3wpmlgFxzGccTG3zS+gSmh/Po77IFsm > nnkuHKSlu1VgvtmXa/FTtg4KSrtS2jg+Vjh7sFGYbXK8maGQUuLVWg7blPtFcOod > Xca40Iy8SAj4rwhUMEdE43Au1fo523OpCPqubW0uSGlpPbrzPNfixHENFolBGoZP > h4a0bRTdMZYfSbxhpeFh6/5QkgsBl80JS3w90kieUtDWn32HYuUEXqIpujBv2ro= The hell is this gibberish? Is your computer broken?? > =P9K+ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 13 02:12:14 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 05:12:14 -0400 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <5F14DF42-B053-48B5-932B-6378E9E2CB51@synfin.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On July 13, 2016 1:58:10 AM EDT, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >Hey all! Just a simple question out of curiosity; i see pgp signed >mails going round in the mailing list, but where do you keep your >public keys, and how am i supposed to get them? Does the mailing list >have its own keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > >(Also, here, have a cookie: https://xkcd.com/1181/) I have mutt configured, or gpg really, to retrieve keys that aren't in my key ring from the keyserver pool sks-keyservers.net. Likewise ive published the public key that I use for jnn at synfin.org to that keyserver pool, so others can retrieve my public key from there... It's not a perfect solution security wise but it works ok. Also it looks cool. John -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFBBAEBCgArJBxrZXliYXNlLmlvL25peGVuIDxuaXhlbkBrZXliYXNlLmlvPgUC V4YF5wAKCRDjJCC+1Hp4x6uQB/oDOY8VZY4CKSxX4w3ARHAe85qN+5beNmH6/xxN e7JfxBl9Q45Oj3Xn2hqfRefI+cMHQpfm2xrWRK8hj/iYKgbHOqNOku5O3Yrtnizq Tjl77CfIeTU5Et6hC/LkCQqrzMmv35TDKWeaAsCo6T9qOQsLBBOuQDqoYSGTW4sk kFp6XtjN2yC4j06NKcs73415MLItaXJj4kDrWlym+NeMX4RmWhVHXynhuYXmnyV1 nwk/poOtuzR6qZpIBiVJXLTc80KgkYioD7XjQ5ekRUo9RUfgyTGMYXfSWMwiQK5g W+Vvvg2nfp5TiDXn+15FM8AxTXptjM1uGwNRerCm178wqK77 =tDw4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 13 03:33:19 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 06:33:19 -0400 Subject: EasyDoc Eleanor Malware Onion Bots In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D8C5F2D-BFAE-4A65-99B6-9DC25DC96C53@synfin.org> > On Jul 6, 2016, at 2:52 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/05/easydoc_malware_adds_tor_backdoor_to_mac_systems_for_botnet_control/ > http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/07/06/new-mac-malware-can-remotely-access-facetime-camera-but-macos-gatekeeper-users-are-protected > > Security firm Bitdefender has issued an alert about a malicious app > that hands over control of Macs to criminals via Tor. The software, > called EasyDoc Converter.app, is supposed to be a file converter but > doesn't do its advertised functions. Instead it drops complex malware > onto the system that subverts the security of the system, allowing it > to be used as part of a botnet or to spy on the owner. "This type of > malware is particularly dangerous as it's hard to detect and offers > the attacker full control of the compromised system," said Tiberius > Axinte, Technical Leader, Bitdefender Antimalware Lab. "For instance, > someone can lock you out of your laptop, threaten to blackmail you to > restore your private files or transform your laptop into a botnet to > attack other devices. The possibilities are endless." The malware, > dubbed Backdoor.MAC.Eleanor, sets up a hidden Tor service and > PHP-capable web server on the infected computer, generating a .onion > domain that the attacker can use to connect to the Mac and control it. > Once installed, the malware grants full access to the file system and > can run scripts given to it by its masters.A report on AppleInsider > says that malware can also control the FaceTime camera on a victim's > computer. But thankfully, Apple's Gatekeeper security prevents the > unsigned app from being installed. This is why I install only a limited number of apps from (hopefully non subverted) known good sources on hackintosh & MacBook. Some UNIX stuff from homebrew, transmission, chrome, iterm and a couple others.. of course even this isn't anywhere near perfect "Easydoc converter.app" name fucking sounds fishy (and worthless)... More and more malware finally starting to target osx (err macOS, or whatever it's called these days).. John From bastianifortress at yandex.com Tue Jul 12 22:58:10 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 07:58:10 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? Message-ID: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 341 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 08:03:14 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 08:03:14 -0700 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <5785E757.1000807@riseup.net> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <5785E757.1000807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57865832.2040904@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 12:01 AM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/12/2016 11:58 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >> Hey all! Just a simple question out of curiosity; i see pgp signed mails going >> round in the mailing list, but where do you keep your public keys, and how am i >> supposed to get them? Does the mailing list have its own keybase, or do you just >> sign your messages to look cool :) >> >> (Also, here, have a cookie: https://xkcd.com/1181/) > I started signing posts to tor-talk to make a point. And also, I was > feeling paranoid after someone started spoofing email addresses :) > > For me, see https://keybase.io/mirimir :) > I sign to verify I sent it and it's not spoofed. Still not 100% verification but it beats nothing. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 08:12:03 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 08:12:03 -0700 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <57865A43.1090207@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 02:34 AM, stef wrote: > you're not worth my time. sorry. > So this shit is worthy of my time 'stef'? You said there was some post on the topic. Produce it. I blocked EIGHT PEOPLE on twitter yesterday for critiquing one of my tweets, with source of info, while categorically failing to produce sources requested for their opposing statements. That's the way legitimate posters 'roll'. I said produce the source, and ONE even went as far as to 'ignore/mute' me and actually had the GALL to say so in the convo. THAT ONE earned a spam report (not that it does a fuckload of good). Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From s at ctrlc.hu Tue Jul 12 23:44:53 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 08:44:53 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't understand signatures and their purposes. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From s at ctrlc.hu Wed Jul 13 00:13:32 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:13:32 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 08:44:53AM +0200, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > > keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) if you'd know how to use ml archives you'd have found my similar question from 1-2 years ago and the answers to that. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 23:14:24 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:14:24 +0300 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: 2016-07-13 8:58 GMT+03:00 Bastiani Fortress : > you just sign your messages to look cool :) Exactly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 719 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 05:37:30 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:37:30 -0300 Subject: The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good Message-ID: Joke Du Jour: The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good. http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-says-its-malware-isn-t-malware-because-the-fbi-1783537208 Hahahaha!!! :D Yeah, that's the reason why they receive Santa's gifts every Christmas! Ho ho ho!!! :D -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 417 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 13 06:44:52 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:44:52 -0400 Subject: EasyDoc Eleanor Malware Onion Bots In-Reply-To: <20160713104620.GW30352@x220-a02> References: <5D8C5F2D-BFAE-4A65-99B6-9DC25DC96C53@synfin.org> <20160713104620.GW30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <3DD9D2F0-5F14-4F25-AAF2-C9A1C5A4C71A@synfin.org> On July 13, 2016 6:46:20 AM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 06:33:19AM -0400, John Newman wrote: >> >> > On Jul 6, 2016, at 2:52 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> > >> > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/05/easydoc_malware_adds_tor_backdoor_to_mac_systems_for_botnet_control/ >> > >http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/07/06/new-mac-malware-can-remotely-access-facetime-camera-but-macos-gatekeeper-users-are-protected >> > >> > Security firm Bitdefender has issued an alert about a malicious app >> > that hands over control of Macs to criminals via Tor. The software, >> > called EasyDoc Converter.app, is supposed to be a file converter >but >> > doesn't do its advertised functions. Instead it drops complex >malware >> > onto the system that subverts the security of the system, allowing >it >> > to be used as part of a botnet or to spy on the owner. "This type >of >> > malware is particularly dangerous as it's hard to detect and offers >> > the attacker full control of the compromised system," said Tiberius >> > Axinte, Technical Leader, Bitdefender Antimalware Lab. "For >instance, >> > someone can lock you out of your laptop, threaten to blackmail you >to >> > restore your private files or transform your laptop into a botnet >to >> > attack other devices. The possibilities are endless." The malware, >> > dubbed Backdoor.MAC.Eleanor, sets up a hidden Tor service and >> > PHP-capable web server on the infected computer, generating a >.onion >> > domain that the attacker can use to connect to the Mac and control >it. >> > Once installed, the malware grants full access to the file system >and >> > can run scripts given to it by its masters.A report on AppleInsider >> > says that malware can also control the FaceTime camera on a >victim's >> > computer. But thankfully, Apple's Gatekeeper security prevents the >> > unsigned app from being installed. >> >> This is why I install only a limited number of apps from (hopefully >non subverted) known good sources on hackintosh & MacBook. Some UNIX >stuff from homebrew, transmission, chrome, iterm and a couple others.. >of course even this isn't anywhere near perfect >> >> "Easydoc converter.app" name fucking sounds fishy (and worthless)... >> >> More and more malware finally starting to target osx (err macOS, or >whatever it's called these days).. > >Just as well your operating system, drivers and desktop software are >all >open source too - you'd be at the mercy of a corporation's walled >garden >otherwise. Aye true enough. I use Linux and freebsd as other primary OSs but am for instance using the nvidia supplied x11 driver, which has a binary blob in it... Performs so much better than nouveau though!! Otherwise it's all free - xfce, Firefox and chromium... I still remember when Linux journal advertised commercial X11 for Linux that came with motif & cde... heh, I was still a bright eyed kid John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From s at ctrlc.hu Wed Jul 13 02:33:51 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:33:51 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160713093351.GU6938@ctrlc.hu> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:04:59AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/13/2016 12:44 AM, stef wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > >> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > > > it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't > > understand signatures and their purposes. > > OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed > message with a valid signature :) ok, i see you understand the primary goal of pgp signatures. i also see, that usually you don't sign here your messages, both of this i approve of. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From s at ctrlc.hu Wed Jul 13 02:34:43 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:34:43 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:32:04AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/13/2016 01:13 AM, stef wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 08:44:53AM +0200, stef wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > >>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > > > if you'd know how to use ml archives you'd have found my similar question from > > 1-2 years ago and the answers to that. > > I'll take that as a "no", until the message shows up :) you're not worth my time. sorry. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From aestetix at aestetix.com Wed Jul 13 02:54:36 2016 From: aestetix at aestetix.com (aestetix) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:54:36 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160713095435.GB8596@dan> In my case, it's available upon request, or to anyone who gets an email from me. And before you ask, no, I will not sign your public key, at least not on a public keyserver. Here is one of the reasons why: https://github.com/aestetix/pglulz Cheers, aestetix On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >Hey all! Just a simple question out of curiosity; i see pgp signed mails going >round in the mailing list, but where do you keep your public keys, and how am i >supposed to get them? Does the mailing list have its own keybase, or do you >just sign your messages to look cool :) > >(Also, here, have a cookie: https://xkcd.com/1181/) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 513 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 07:54:55 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:54:55 -0300 Subject: The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good In-Reply-To: <20160713130351.GA30352@x220-a02> References: <20160713130351.GA30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 13, 2016 10:16 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 09:37:30AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > > > The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good. > > But the individuals ARE all good - everyone has GOOD in them, and they act according to their schooling and training and upbringing, as best they can - they're just doing their jobs you see. The Latin word "mal" (or "malus"), used as root in several Latin languages, means “bad” or “evil". It was used in the origins of the words "malice" and "malicious". The etymology of this word makes explicit its meaning. It is a "malicious software". An intentionally harmful software. If you want to believe a "malware" can be a "goodware" - or something similar - because people are good, is your option, but it definitely is *not* a wise choice, in my humble opinion. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 07:59:26 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 11:59:26 -0300 Subject: The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good In-Reply-To: <20160713130351.GA30352@x220-a02> References: <20160713130351.GA30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 13, 2016 10:16 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > But the individuals ARE all good - everyone has GOOD in them, and they act according to their schooling and training and upbringing, as best they can - they're just doing their jobs you see. I hear that some supporters of the FBI are actually volunteers (friends of employees just helping out), so they're really good guys. We cannot deny the FBI employees gainful employment which provides them opportunities for honourable actions. At least some of the time. At least, I assume so. === The people are good, but we have trolls and stupid persons in all places. A good person can be really stupid, did you know it? We can have stupid people even in respected lists of discussion. :-) Recent examples in this list: - People saying I am making "rape apology" when I am trying to stop a stupid lynch mob and severe human rights violation. People saying how "beautiful and artistic" was using a nuclear bomb to explode the city where my family used living before being killed. People saying I was flattering a guy just because of a stupid mailing list. You know, we have disgusting people telling lies and writing stupid things, making propaganda for corrupt politicians and institutions in every place of this world, all minutes. Even on the best mailing and discussion lists. And they never apologize when are injust. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1534 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anthony at cajuntechie.org Wed Jul 13 10:12:36 2016 From: anthony at cajuntechie.org (Anthony Papillion) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:12:36 -0500 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <755abba8-76cd-1fac-4787-7b2541017010@cajuntechie.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 7/13/2016 12:58 AM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Hey all! Just a simple question out of curiosity; i see pgp signed > mails going round in the mailing list, but where do you keep your > public keys, and how am i supposed to get them? Does the mailing > list have its own keybase, or do you just sign your messages to > look cool :) In my case, there are a number of places you can get my public key: - - My personal blog - - My Keybase profile - - Almost any key server - - You can just ask me for it I suspect most people provide their keys in a similar fashion with most simply placing their keys on public key servers. As for /why/ I sign my mails, I started signing mails after someone decided to spoof a few fairly important emails from me. I consistantly sign mails - even unimportant mail, to show a reliable pattern. I do this even for mail to people I know don't use PGP because, if there is ever a question about a piece of mail, I can /prove/ that I sent it if I have to (I can walk them through downloading and installing PGP and validating my signature, and (while much LESS valuable and reliable) I can give people, even those who don't use PGP, a sense that I /did not/ send a piece of mail if it is not signed. It has nothing to do with looking cool. A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXhnaEAAoJEAKK33RTsEsVLvYP/RzAx7QLXSsWVVuazawfZKum A2KHotW4UvP+5vu4TkJ3rUvRkQuygMW3Kbqhqk5BJVxi48Sxg4Xfpi0Z/pFp8i7r ulSUkodgzDWduB03/YW6BPMT/cD7IpjRZOoA2PWRSf34Nq7lSczl/e70RHIkZADi ZWz1uiLSJVigpMGs3jUEp42/Ns9s7vwhd8LO0vime70fDWlvp44GUP/NbPGYNqTT pBoypnB3eL1jewKAy9weE4EWE+UWzfDY3uX3EYLKEOiQDv7C7cBn8k+dlUR/Uz/j FuUrH4MN7JFTedOUFjoRZtFLSShgeg7uqGNe/jeFlCjZGumBsQ8hrLuujzyVqlLG arjlsHXYJuJEZgfVU21/KLJzjxJj95gGQcRqyass7UwN0cz1NU3tVov/FhIouglK JSn/phFqvHh+tLI4Xe/1aEhLrt8e2gLZRWucV4EAmyLxPmlhhp/5J344BExN0mEE MI8v4VRaM+usv8v++qY3xklHS1jTWZC8cdqeFP4idSK/wShxyiu7doplzQw7TKUq L/rcQPoF9eeHg/ohh/6GKXduMa6jy198SHqgiEjkKCh7XouN4J4xiRiPXSTd/xLX 5JmpFJRuimC8aqb1TVRBWkXgsV3xf72zdBf6cNkknKd7AjlWdYM/ZMNNa3XPLFlT h2rPa84g4e86pRnt9LZz =M5s1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 13 10:52:42 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 13:52:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <63A554BC-2012-49F2-8FB9-E10E26E7115B@synfin.org> On Jul 13, 2016, at 2:44 AM, stef wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > it doesn't even look cool, it just shows how much you don't understand > signatures and their purposes. > > -- > otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt Your sites SSL cert install is fucked up. Chaining issue I think, install the intermediary cert. John From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 13 09:49:48 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 19:49:48 +0300 Subject: [OT] Why kill a private key publicly? In-Reply-To: <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160713164948.GA932@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:04:59AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed > message with a valid signature :) > Spoofing your email detectably is trivial, e.g. with netcat by hand. If I could sign in your name, why kill your private key publicly, scaring gpg lusers? Wouldn't it be better for me to profit from your private key? IMHO for the majority of lusers, getting their private key is not related to crypto, more to apps sploits. lol, just trolling ;) @juan: denying you wrote something signed is possible too. just revoke the key, claiming hax0r attack. for plausibility you can leak the private signing key (assuming it is worthless as it should be on ML). From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 13 03:21:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:21:49 +1000 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <20160713071332.GS6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785EE74.8080807@riseup.net> <20160713093443.GV6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <20160713102149.GV30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:34:43AM +0200, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:32:04AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > > On 07/13/2016 01:13 AM, stef wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 08:44:53AM +0200, stef wrote: > > >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 07:58:10AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > > >>> keybase, or do you just sign your messages to look cool :) > > > > > > if you'd know how to use ml archives you'd have found my similar question from > > > 1-2 years ago and the answers to that. > > > > I'll take that as a "no", until the message shows up :) > > you're not worth my time. sorry. Oh but it's worth the rest of our time - please, do demonstrate. That would be very cool, Mirimir can have a sob, and we can all have a laugh looking on :) Definitely, definitely worth the time :D From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 20:44:12 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:44:12 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 08:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: > https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html > > Tor guts itself. > And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. > > Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) > C'mon... Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper for the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 13 03:46:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:20 +1000 Subject: EasyDoc Eleanor Malware Onion Bots In-Reply-To: <5D8C5F2D-BFAE-4A65-99B6-9DC25DC96C53@synfin.org> References: <5D8C5F2D-BFAE-4A65-99B6-9DC25DC96C53@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160713104620.GW30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 06:33:19AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > > On Jul 6, 2016, at 2:52 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/05/easydoc_malware_adds_tor_backdoor_to_mac_systems_for_botnet_control/ > > http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/07/06/new-mac-malware-can-remotely-access-facetime-camera-but-macos-gatekeeper-users-are-protected > > > > Security firm Bitdefender has issued an alert about a malicious app > > that hands over control of Macs to criminals via Tor. The software, > > called EasyDoc Converter.app, is supposed to be a file converter but > > doesn't do its advertised functions. Instead it drops complex malware > > onto the system that subverts the security of the system, allowing it > > to be used as part of a botnet or to spy on the owner. "This type of > > malware is particularly dangerous as it's hard to detect and offers > > the attacker full control of the compromised system," said Tiberius > > Axinte, Technical Leader, Bitdefender Antimalware Lab. "For instance, > > someone can lock you out of your laptop, threaten to blackmail you to > > restore your private files or transform your laptop into a botnet to > > attack other devices. The possibilities are endless." The malware, > > dubbed Backdoor.MAC.Eleanor, sets up a hidden Tor service and > > PHP-capable web server on the infected computer, generating a .onion > > domain that the attacker can use to connect to the Mac and control it. > > Once installed, the malware grants full access to the file system and > > can run scripts given to it by its masters.A report on AppleInsider > > says that malware can also control the FaceTime camera on a victim's > > computer. But thankfully, Apple's Gatekeeper security prevents the > > unsigned app from being installed. > > This is why I install only a limited number of apps from (hopefully non subverted) known good sources on hackintosh & MacBook. Some UNIX stuff from homebrew, transmission, chrome, iterm and a couple others.. of course even this isn't anywhere near perfect > > "Easydoc converter.app" name fucking sounds fishy (and worthless)... > > More and more malware finally starting to target osx (err macOS, or whatever it's called these days).. Just as well your operating system, drivers and desktop software are all open source too - you'd be at the mercy of a corporation's walled garden otherwise. From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 20:42:05 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 21:42:05 -0600 Subject: [OT] Why kill a private key publicly? In-Reply-To: <20160713164948.GA932@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <5785E81B.3000105@riseup.net> <20160713164948.GA932@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <57870A0D.9010909@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 10:49 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:04:59AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> OK, let's see if you can spoof my email address, and produce a signed >> message with a valid signature :) >> > > Spoofing your email detectably is trivial, e.g. with netcat by hand. For sure. > If I could sign in your name, why kill your private key publicly, > scaring gpg lusers? Wouldn't it be better for me to profit from your > private key? For lulz :) And anyway, Mirimir has nothing worth stealing except reputation. > IMHO for the majority of lusers, getting their private key is not > related to crypto, more to apps sploits. True. Not so trivial, though. > lol, just trolling ;) :) > @juan: denying you wrote something signed is possible too. just revoke > the key, claiming hax0r attack. for plausibility you can leak the > private signing key (assuming it is worthless as it should be on ML). :) From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 20:48:07 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 21:48:07 -0600 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57870B77.9050606@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 09:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: > https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html > > Tor guts itself. > And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. > > Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) Well, they had to, after all the shit that's come out, and all the additional shit that may come out. Shari Steele was brought in to clean house, and that's what she's doing. But who brought her in, I wonder? And whose interests is the new leadership serving? Time will tell. From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 13 21:28:43 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 22:28:43 -0600 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578714FB.807@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 09:44 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/13/2016 08:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors >> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html >> >> Tor guts itself. >> And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. >> >> Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) >> > > > C'mon... > > Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper for > the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." No, he's the token good guy ;) Stupid enough? From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 13 06:03:51 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:03:51 +1000 Subject: The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160713130351.GA30352@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 09:37:30AM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Joke Du Jour: > > The FBI Says Its Malware Isn't Malware Because The FBI Is Good. > > http://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-says-its-malware-isn-t-malware-because-the-fbi-1783537208 > > Hahahaha!!! :D > > Yeah, that's the reason why they receive Santa's gifts every Christmas! Ho > ho ho!!! :D But the individuals ARE all good - everyone has GOOD in them, and they act according to their schooling and training and upbringing, as best they can - they're just doing their jobs you see. I hear that some supporters of the FBI are actually volunteers (friends of employees just helping out), so they're really good guys. We cannot deny the FBI employees gainful employment which provides them opportunities for honourable actions. At least some of the time. At least, I assume so. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 20:17:31 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:17:31 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board Message-ID: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html Tor guts itself. And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 13 20:39:32 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:39:32 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/13/2016 11:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: > https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-di rectors > > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-priva cy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html > > Tor guts itself. And under whatever your definition of "elects" > is. > > Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) Bruce Schneier gonna be on the board, this should be fun! :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXhwl0AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqLjEH/3EKjaJwDc1a5wphoDB7ThQk 3F6XEYX4ClBOuA4xFdxrqsI3RUclD6lGtFdUKyPGOlsW929KkFkx1a+UuCGlAfaf K7sKTHCLjd4dRXORm8NyvfaeiNsMUmbLzgZ4PTMQBGljOkQXSoYkkgkieHQAVItj QkDNVn1LG5Y9JhVOjs8SuBJAeOVQFfsy/NDg9Ni68NRmpAEjgbyOPwammq+xpd+1 KmeqYOzbU45Pw2LG257Gor8mK0wB3ZZSASSj8LJv09wvh17o1zn41+bphUPs4/kj y3rIqHZA6hfSPNZ72e9CnQIMG9bJ2d4ikilFEfRKnV+1kM6moWzN37IWdYLJfQ4= =Jdl+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 20:41:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:41:59 -0400 Subject: Tor repos on github draw certain... Message-ID: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000512.html ... censors, quotes of free speech, and irony. Create your own repos on an onion today... FTW! Related: https://blog.cloudflare.com/author/marek-majkowski/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 21:35:08 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 00:35:08 -0400 Subject: AP: estimating odds, cryptocurrencies, status Message-ID: On 7/13/16, jim bell wrote: > The analysis for America is simple: The Feds collect $3 trillion in taxes > peryear. Suppose each person who pays $1 in tax also pays 1 cent for a > fundto get rid of his oppressors, or $30 billion. If a hit cost $100,000 > (probably that estimate is very high), if you divide $30 billion by > $100,000, that wouldpay for 300,000 hits. Do you think that the government > could function effectively if even as few as 30,000 get killed over a 1-year > period?Let alone 300,000? Say there are 10M anonymous user of darknets, 0.001% might throw $100 cryptos at it for politics or lols, that's $1M or 10 $100k hits. There's all sorts of sliders you can play with there that could ultimately yield some form of interference in the timeline. Beyond estimating, there's the large questions of - What, if any, such markets have sprung up? - If not, why not? - When will they? What are their requirements and environment to startup, and succeed? http://worldbitcoinnetwork.com/BitcoinPriceModel-Alpha.html https://coinmarketcap.com/ From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 20:53:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 00:53:27 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57870c1b.8d2a370a.7f67c.0c0f@mx.google.com> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:17:31 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors > http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html > > Tor guts itself. The 'core' shitbags are all there. They will never 'gut' themselves. Though it would be great if they literally did, japanese-style. Then again, those scumbags are the exact opposite of people with principles. > And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. > That 'board of directors' is just a list of parasites who are there either for the money(tax money) or the 'prestige'. > Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 20:54:13 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 00:54:13 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> References: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57870c49.855e370a.df2a.0b62@mx.google.com> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:39:32 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > > Bruce Schneier gonna be on the board, this should be fun! It doesn't take much effort to find out that schneider is some kind of americunt neocon. From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 13 18:09:09 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 01:09:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: comprehending the heart's nationalism In-Reply-To: <57847058.5050401@pilobilus.net> References: <577dcf4f.412bc80a.c1bb6.ffffd0e2@mx.google.com> <20160707041856.GM30352@x220-a02> <577de112.0a31c80a.b7ab6.6f46@mx.google.com> <577F89DD.2010707@pilobilus.net> <20160708121250.GU30352@x220-a02> <57800b27.8d2a370a.f9aa6.3cd5@mx.google.com> <20160708234552.GC30352@x220-a02> <578043ae.c120ed0a.c8cb1.25b9@mx.google.com> <20160709005040.GF30352@x220-a02> <5780572b.623aed0a.1be27.558b@mx.google.com> <20160709023608.GJ30352@x220-a02> <57808584.8060906@riseup.net> <250888668.254317.1468085441198.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5781B0A3.9060905@pilobilus.net> <248810488.681181.1468198213872.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <57847058.5050401@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <1378230756.2838306.1468458549276.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Steve Kinney >> First, I should point out that to the extent that this may seem to >> be a problem, part of the problem is that behind the scenes, >>governments actually may be _promoting_ income inequality, rather >> than reducing it. >My own view is that the sole function of the State it to convert money >into power, then back into money.  Partial reinvestment of State >partons' capital gains produces an accelerating feedback cycle, >concentrating more money (=power) into fewer hands over time.  I don't >anticipate this changing as corporations become more sovereign and >States less so. Maybe the solution is to make States less able to restrict competition,particularly in hidden ways.  The fight between Uber and Lyft and the'traditional' taxi service is a classic example.  Historically, the monopolized "right" to operate a taxi in New York (a "medallion") has been bought and soldnearly a million dollars.  That's the 'value' of a government-promoted monopoly,at least to the participants. > But the >billionaires, "statistically insignificant" in terms of head count, >continue to dominate political activity due to the massive extent of >income and assets inequality that appears at the very top of the scale. Reduce the tax rate of "billionaires", and they will be much less motivated toget involved with government.  And while that happens, states will not have the powerto benefit the people who BECOME billionaires, assisted by such government power. >A couple of graphs based on U.S. statistics: >http://www.lcurve.org/ (a real classic) For some reason I can't seem to "operate" the graph.  The picture zooms, but allI see is a straight red line going from the left side of the box to the right side.  Maybe there is intended to be a curve, but it doesn't appear that way to me. >https://tinyurl.com/gor6gdd (less extreme-looking aggregate numbers) One of the reasons there are terms, "lying with statistics", is that people cancarefully select the facts they choose to present, and exclude other relevant facts. I would like to see, on these graphs, a representation of the size of government atthe times involved:  Put simply, I think of government as much more the CAUSE of these problems, rather than the solution.   Another problem is that this data represents periods with a dramatic difference in America'sindustrial power:  From 1945-1970+, America was a manufacturer to the world:  Europe had been bombed out, and nations such as Europe, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Mexico, China, and India weren't competeing with America.  That effect was so extreme that in the 50's and 60's,many or most families got away with only one breadwinner, usually the husband.  How muchdoes this change, to today, affect the numbers presented? >> turning on.  But I believe that in a smoothly-functioning >> 'post-AP-transition' world, people simply don't need to complain. >This raises the issue of implementation.  In the case at hand, >counter-anonymity is a question of money:  How much money do you have, >how badly do you want to prevent anonymous transactions?  Remailers, >onion and garlic routing, etc. are at present only somewhat resistant >to an adversary who can observe much of the network, most of the time. >I envision a briefing where a select group of U.S. billionaires and >telco CEOs learn about AP and are told, "We must spend x trillion >dollars over the next decade to keep this from happening."  Rinse and >repeat in other national and corporate jurisdictions.  Ouch. That seems to assume that merely by spending money that outcome canbe avoided.  Can it?  If people are very dissatisfied, and they can by spending$10 dollars per person, help shut down a hegemonic system, how can thisbe resisted successfully? >> AP would effectively shut down governments... >I think that should be preceded with, "If successful."  Funding a >global, directly democratic freelance mercenary force targeting >"abusers of" power would not produce a post-AP world overnight. So far, it's taken over 21 years.  I am not disappointed, however.Pay attention to Ethereum and Augur. >Exhausting the defensive and counter-offensive resources of today's >ruling class would take time.  Assuring that assets pass intact from >deceased owners to their heirs and assignees is already a core >function of the State, so killing individual billionaires might >introduce turbulence but would not remove the problem of "minority >rule by violent means."  I think it would be likely to lead to wide >scale ultra-violent responses. I don't think nearly anybody anticipated the rapid fall of the "Iron Curtain" in 1989.  Yet it happened. Very quickly. > Over time, I believe that the "ethical" organizations would have > advantages, so they could do the equivalent of offering lower > prices: The amount of their awards could be lower.  The "unethical" > organizations would  "do" anybody, but it would cost much more. I have my doubts.  The cost of overcoming the defences of a President would be astronomically higher than the costs and risks of overcoming the defences of, for instance, an independent journalist.  This would mandate a much higher bounty on the former. It's the old, "Just put a big enough defense on the top guy, and nobodycan get to him" objection to AP. That's one reason why AP isn't limited, even in theory, to merely thetop-level people.  What about second, third, fourth, and fifth level people?Their families?  Their friends?  It wouldn't take much to keep virtuallyanybody from wanting to work for a government.  They would probablyhave to pay an increasingly large amount to accept the risk, money that it would be increasingly hard for government to collect. The analysis for America is simple:  The Feds collect $3 trillion in taxes peryear.  Suppose each person who pays $1 in tax also pays 1 cent for a fundto get rid of his oppressors, or $30 billion.   If a hit cost $100,000 (probably that estimate is very high), if you divide $30 billion by $100,000, that wouldpay for 300,000 hits.  Do you think that the government could function effectively if even as few as 30,000 get killed over a 1-year period?Let alone 300,000? > Conversely, public demand >for removing an unpopular President would also be proportionally >higher - a mitigating factor.  Conversely x2, that President's backers >might consider certain journalists worth paying over-market prices to >remove, as her efforts might eventually aim the AP process at them >personally. Currently, "journalists" are seen as having very disproportionate power.  Butwe've already seen that the situation is dramatically changed from the pre-Internet period (which I arbitrarily label as pre-1995, based on its accessibilityand influence.).   With blogs, just abouteveryone is a "journalist" today.  Why do we now need "journalists" to go  after government, if we have a functioning AP system? >It seems to me that replacing an unjust and inequitable system of >governance enforced by the threat of murder, with a more just and fair >system of governance enforced by murder would not produce results that >most would consider ethical.  If they didn't understand the whole picture, sure they might believe that.  One difference is, "who makes the decisions as to who get killed?"If a long and bloody war (for example the war between Iraq and Iran in theearly 1980s) could be stopped by purchasing the death of a few hundredIraqi and Iranian leaders,  I think most people would view that outcomeas being highly ethical and beneficial to society.  Just not beneficial to the leaderships, themselves. > Not to say that, if successfully >implemented as envisioned, it would necessarily be worse than what we >have today. This should have been studied and debated extensively 20 years ago.  Howmany INTELLIGENT such debates eventually occurred about AP.  (I'm not referring to CP list discussions, of course).  I could probably count themon one hand, or at most two hands. >> Eventually, what amounted to "court systems" would be included, to >> decide whether a complaint was valid.  These "court systems" would, >> of course, be "voluntary", in the sense nobody would be required to >> appear, but the consequence of failure to appear would be that >> 'bare AP' would operate:  If enough donations appeared to motivate >> somebody, that would happen. >A "Court" is a forum governed by a sovereign authority, where >petitions and arguments are heard and decisions on the application of >sovereign authority are made. Currently, this is true.  The history of "courts", I believe, included a kingmaking decisions about disputes of his people.  Terminology such as a "court" ("a King's Court"), "pleadings", "arguments" survived.   But soon enough I imagine that this got very boring and time-consuming for the King, sohe happily deligated this task to some trusted person, who eventually becamecalled a "judge".I use the term "court" to put this decision-making function in a familiar light.We think of a "court" as being a physical location (a room), and people, setup to make decisions.  One modern analog is "arbitration", and I could haveused that analogy.  An AP-type system will ultimately replace not merely regional defense, but also what we currently think of as "law enforcement"functions.  But these will not necessarily be monopoly-operations. >  A Court whose sole function is to >authorize murder could dispense revenge, but never justice: Maybe we will have to agree to disagree on this? > Every sovereign in every war throughout history has presented its casus belli as the defense of human life, and the fact that war is tolerated by enough people to make it possible demonstrates that application of a "non-aggression principle" in conjunction with decisions to hire and direct murderers can not be entrusted to either sovereigns or a peasant rabble." Effectively we entrust authority to do this to people chosen by vote, orappointed by these people, etc.  Why not replace this with a different version of "wisdom of the masses"? >> And once I thought of that idea, I've always believed that it was >> absolutely inevitable.  SOMEBODY was going to think of this, >> eventually.  It just happened to be me. >The seeds were everywhere.  Lots of twistid visionaries saw >assassination markets coming, though none worked out the details to >make it (nearly) practicable - that was waiting on applicable >technology. >- From Subvert Comix #3, by Spain Rodriguez, 1976: > http://pilobilus.net/xfer/Subvert_no3_pg35.jpg Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've long known that Science Fiction has beenused as a way to test out new ideas, rhetorically, without having to placethem (threateningly) in modern-day fiction.   -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 28871 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 21:25:14 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 01:25:14 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5787138f.442eed0a.6f9d4.0ec5@mx.google.com> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:44:12 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper > for the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." No, no, no. That's mathematically impossible. schneier is a libertarian individualist anarchist who doesn't have any loyalty to the americunt nazis. schneier is as much of a principled anarchist as you, rayzer... > > Rr > > > From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 00:00:08 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 03:00:08 -0400 Subject: GlomarDisclosure with your host Michael Best Message-ID: https://glomardisclosure.com/ From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 00:06:58 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 04:06:58 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:44:12 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper > for the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." Oh, and by the way rayzer, You never finished explaining your conspiracy theory regarding appelbaum? What happened to poor appelbaum? He's the victim of a complot of course! But led by whom? The swiss, the chinese, pedophiles, anti-semites, right-wingers, or what? > > Rr > > > From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 14 02:39:16 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 05:39:16 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870c1b.8d2a370a.7f67c.0c0f@mx.google.com> References: <57870c1b.8d2a370a.7f67c.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > On Jul 13, 2016, at 11:53 PM, juan wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:17:31 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > >> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors >> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html >> >> Tor guts itself. > > The 'core' shitbags are all there. They will never 'gut' > themselves. Though it would be great if they literally did, > japanese-style. Then again, those scumbags are the exact > opposite of people with principles. Roger Dingledine and Nick Mathewson sure as fuck weren't and didn't go anywhere. What does the board even do to draw their fat salaries? What did Appelbaum even do? Besides talk about Julian Assange every 5 minutes. It seems they have a massive coder-to-manager ratio deficit. John From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 07:35:02 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:35:02 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578714FB.807@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <578714FB.807@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5787A316.3080805@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 09:28 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/13/2016 09:44 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> On 07/13/2016 08:17 PM, grarpamp wrote: >>> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html >>> >>> Tor guts itself. >>> And under whatever your definition of "elects" is. >>> >>> Note the headline pic... can't fade me brahs, still reppin :) >>> >> >> C'mon... >> >> Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper for >> the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." > No, he's the token good guy ;) > > Point taken. That's the way the local city council is populated (if you're socially to the left of fascists). One advantage I can see with Schneier is there's someone on the board to toot their horn if they find or hear about something amiss, and the personal infosec capability to front other whistleblowers without blowing their cover I don't think he has any qualms about doing that and DOES NOT NEED torproject to be celebrity nor can they really damage his rep. It's unlikely that what happened to ioerror could be done to him because A, he's not sub-culturally affiliated, whatever you want that to mean... B... He was a hardcore CIA intel analyst and his persec is going to be uncrackeable by the kind of jokers he might encounter at torproject. Therefore I think he's more than appropriate as a watchdog... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 07:37:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:37:36 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 12:06 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:44:12 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > >> Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a sleeper >> for the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." > > Oh, and by the way rayzer, > > You never finished explaining your conspiracy theory regarding > appelbaum? > > What happened to poor appelbaum? He's the victim of a complot > of course! But led by whom? The swiss, the chinese, pedophiles, > anti-semites, right-wingers, or what? > > > > I had no "Conspiracy Theory" regarding ioerror but I did just mention something about him in re one of the new board members elsewhere in the thread. If you read it and you don't like my analysis. Fuck off I TRULY don't care. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 07:42:22 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:42:22 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870c49.855e370a.df2a.0b62@mx.google.com> References: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> <57870c49.855e370a.df2a.0b62@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5787A4CE.3030908@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 08:54 PM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:39:32 -0400 > Steve Kinney wrote: > > >> Bruce Schneier gonna be on the board, this should be fun! > > It doesn't take much effort to find out that schneider is some > kind of americunt neocon. > > > Didn't he do speaking tours with Medea Benjamin? Is she an 'americunt neocon' too? Is everyone within the territorial boundaries of the continental US, cunts? Enquiring minds want to know what the mentally ill troll thinks. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 07:49:00 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:49:00 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870c1b.8d2a370a.7f67c.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5787A65C.2000600@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 02:39 AM, John Newman wrote: >> On Jul 13, 2016, at 11:53 PM, juan wrote: >> >> On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 23:17:31 -0400 >> grarpamp wrote: >> >>> https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-project-elects-new-board%C2%A0-directors >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/technology/tor-project-a-digital-privacy-group-reboots-with-new-board.html >>> >>> Tor guts itself. >> The 'core' shitbags are all there. They will never 'gut' >> themselves. Though it would be great if they literally did, >> japanese-style. Then again, those scumbags are the exact >> opposite of people with principles. > > Roger Dingledine and Nick Mathewson sure as fuck weren't and didn't go anywhere. > > What does the board even do to draw their fat salaries? What did Appelbaum even do? Besides talk about Julian Assange every 5 minutes. It seems they have a massive coder-to-manager ratio deficit. > > John > > > > Welcome to the machine... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 07:54:16 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:54:16 -0700 Subject: Tor project changes directorship In-Reply-To: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> References: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5787A798.6030107@riseup.net> On 07/13/2016 11:06 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > when in fact now may be a full CIA/NSA takeover of Tor project? > > I see... Do you also believe the bug-bounty program they just activated is there to collect info on people willing to help find tor security flaws so the CIA can spook, stalk, and assassinate those people? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 05:15:46 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:15:46 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160714113333.GB689@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> <20160714113333.GB689@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Jul 14, 2016 8:44 AM, "Georgi Guninski" wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:39:32PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > > Bruce Schneier gonna be on the board, this should be fun! > > > > lol, one of the best ways to kill his reputation (if any). It would be pretty fun. More funny memes! :D https://www.schneierfacts.com/facts/37 The internet always needs more cats and memes to survive. Schneier using onions to attack terrorists and pedophiles in a version of Angry Birds would be pop and very cute, ow! *-* Tor Project should consider Chuck Norris on the board too. :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 809 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Thu Jul 14 00:29:18 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:29:18 +0200 Subject: Sanity in Switzerland: What's in a handshake? In-Reply-To: <20160713235725.GB30352@x220-a02> References: <20160713235725.GB30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <7501468481358@web19m.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6412 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 05:47:03 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:47:03 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> <20160714113333.GB689@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Jul 14, 2016 9:15 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > > Schneier using onions to attack terrorists and pedophiles in a version of Angry Birds would be pop and very cute, ow! *-* Hmm... Pokémon Go is already a more popular app than Tinder, another app where you swipe to find monsters in your area. So maybe would be more insteresting to create a game where we can use our accounts as a Pokédex, a database of personal profiles, stats, useful informations, etc, but about activists, IT Security experts, researchers, etc, not about real monsters. You know, a Pokédex exactly like FBI and NSA already have, hihi... ;) (To slower people, it's just a silly joke. Avoid unnecessary drama when something is very obvious. I don't support Internet vigilantism and FBI and NSA's "pokédex".) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 943 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 13 16:57:25 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 09:57:25 +1000 Subject: Sanity in Switzerland: What's in a handshake? Message-ID: <20160713235725.GB30352@x220-a02> ----- Forwarded message from Jim ----- Hugh Fitzgerald: Switzerland: What’s in a Handshake? JIHAD WATCH By Hugh Fitzgerald May 27, 2016 12:12 pm 117 Comments Sometimes it’s the little things that are most telling. In Switzerland it has long been customary for students to shake the hands of their teachers at the beginning and end of the school day. It’s a sign of solidarity and mutual respect between teacher and pupil, one that is thought to encourage the right classroom atmosphere. Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga recently felt compelled to further explain that shaking hands was part of Swiss culture and daily life. And the reason she felt compelled to speak out about the handshake is that two Muslim brothers, aged 14 and 15, who have lived in Switzerland for several years (and thus are familiar with its mores), in the town of Therwil, near Basel, refused to shake the hands of their teacher, a woman, because, they claimed, this would violate Muslim teachings that contact with the opposite sex is allowed only with family members. At first the school authorities decided to avoid trouble, and initially granted the boys an exemption from having to shake the hand of any female teacher. But an uproar followed, as Mayor Reto Wolf explained to the BBC: “the community was unhappy with the decision taken by the school. In our culture and in our way of communication a handshake is normal and sends out respect for the other person, and this has to be brought [home] to the children in school.” Therwil’s Educational Department reversed the school’s decision, explaining in a statement on May 25 that the school’s exemption was lifted because “the public interest with respect to equality between men and women and the integration of foreigners significantly outweighs the freedom of religion.” It added that a teacher has the right to demand a handshake. Furthermore, if the students refused to shake hands again “the sanctions called for by law will be applied,” which included a possible fine of up to 5,000 dollars. This uproar in Switzerland, where many people were enraged at the original exemption granted to the Muslim boys, did not end after that exemption was itself overturned by the local Educational Department. The Swiss understood quite clearly that this was more than a little quarrel over handshakes; it was a fight over whether the Swiss would be masters in their own house, or whether they would be forced to yield, by the granting of special treatment, to the Islamic view of the proper relations between the sexes. It is one battle – small but to the Swiss significant – between o’erweening Muslim immigrants and the indigenous Swiss. Naturally, once the exemption was withdrawn, all hell broke loose among Muslims in Switzerland. The Islamic Central Council of Switzerland, instead of yielding quietly to the Swiss decision to uphold the handshaking custom, criticized the ruling in hysterical terms, claiming that the enforcement of the handshaking is “totalitarian” (!) because its intent is to “forbid religious people from meeting their obligations to God.” That, of course, was never the “intent” of the long-standing handshaking custom, which was a nearly-universal custom in Switzerland, and in schools had to do only with encouraging the right classroom atmosphere of mutual respect between instructor and pupil, of which the handshake was one aspect. The Swiss formulation of the problem – weighing competing claims — will be familiar to Americans versed in Constitutional adjudication. In this case “the public interest with respect to equality” of the sexes and the “integration of foreigners” (who are expected to adopt Swiss ways, not force the Swiss to exempt them from some of those ways) were weighed against the “religious obligations to God” of Muslims, and the former interests found to outweigh the latter. What this case shows is that even at the smallest and seemingly inconsequential level, Muslims are challenging the laws and customs of the Infidels among whom they have been allowed to settle. Each little victory, or defeat, will determine whether Muslims will truly integrate into a Western society or, instead, refashion that society to meet Muslim requirements. The handshake has been upheld and, what’s more, a stiff fine now will be imposed on those who continue to refuse to shake hands with a female teacher. This is a heartening sign of non-surrender by the Swiss. But the challenges of the Muslims within Europe to the laws and customs of the indigenes have no logical end and will not stop. And the greater the number of Muslims allowed to settle in Europe, the stronger and more frequent their challenges will be. They are attempting not to integrate, but rather to create, for now, a second, parallel society, and eventually, through sheer force of numbers from both migration and by outbreeding the Infidels, to fashion not a parallel society but one society — now dominated by Muslims. The Swiss handshaking dispute has received some, but not enough, press attention. Presumably, it’s deemed too inconsequential a matter to bother with. But the Swiss know better. And so should we. There’s an old Scottish saying that in one variant reads: “Many a little makes a mickle.” That is, the accumulation of many little things leads to one big thing. That’s what’s happening in Europe today. This was one victory for the side of sanity. There will need to be a great many more. Source: https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/05/hugh-fitzgerald-switzerland-whats-in-a-handshake From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 10:19:03 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 10:19:03 -0700 Subject: Tor project changes directorship In-Reply-To: <20160714163855.GD689@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> <5787A798.6030107@riseup.net> <20160714163855.GD689@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5787C987.8010601@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 09:38 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 07:54:16AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> Do you also believe the bug-bounty program they just activated is there >> to collect info on people willing to help find tor security flaws so the >> CIA can spook, stalk, and assassinate those people? >> > Is tor's bug bounty still INVITE ONLY? (search the web for reference). > > Shit like this doesn't make any sense to me. > > Anyway, IMHO the goal of the bounty was to find low hanging fruit > backdoors, introduced mainly by n-tuple agents with legal write access > and other actors with illegal write access. As someone wrote long ago, > "onions are fragile". > > Why doesn't that make any sense? The way everyone spews on about it you'd think if someone actually did fix some holes the gubmint didn't want fixed they'd be found dead in an alligator-inhabited ditch somewhere in bumfuck Florida. I'd imagine torproject also want people who have SOME experience. Does that mean anyone qualified is compromised? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 14 04:33:33 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 14:33:33 +0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> References: <57870974.8060403@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160714113333.GB689@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:39:32PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > Bruce Schneier gonna be on the board, this should be fun! > lol, one of the best ways to kill his reputation (if any). From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 13 23:06:51 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:06:51 +1000 Subject: Tor project changes directorship Message-ID: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> Trying to contain fallout, or transferring of the guard given problems with current directorship/ attempt to maintain illusion of transparency, when in fact now may be a full CIA/NSA takeover of Tor project? ----- Forwarded message from "LWN.net Daily Summary" ----- https://lwn.net/Articles/694406/ Tor Project Elects All-New Board of Directors [Announcements] Posted Jul 13, 2016 19:39 UTC (Wed) by ris The Tor Project has announced a new board of directors. "As Tor's board of directors, we consider it our duty to ensure that the Tor Project has the best possible leadership. The importance of Tor's mission requires it; the public standing of the organization makes it possible; and we are committed to achieve it. We had that duty in mind when we conducted an Executive Director search last year, and appreciate the leadership Shari Steele has brought. To support her, we further believe that it is time that we pass the baton of board oversight as the Tor Project moves into its second decade of operations." From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 12:10:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:10:45 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:37:36 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/14/2016 12:06 AM, juan wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:44:12 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > > > >> Someone say something truly stupid like "Bruce Schneier is a > >> sleeper for the CIA to make sure Tor stays insecure." > > > > Oh, and by the way rayzer, > > > > You never finished explaining your conspiracy theory > > regarding appelbaum? > > > > What happened to poor appelbaum? He's the victim of a > > complot of course! But led by whom? The swiss, the chinese, > > pedophiles, anti-semites, right-wingers, or what? > > > > > > > > > > I had no "Conspiracy Theory" regarding ioerror Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts, why don't you explain what happened to him anyway? What, you are too much of a dishonest clown to face basic facts? > but I did just mention > something about him in re one of the new board members elsewhere in > the thread. bla bla bla > > If you read it and you don't like my analysis. Fuck off I TRULY don't > care. > > Rr > From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 17:51:15 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:51:15 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 12:10 PM, juan wrote: > Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts Sure, sure. You do that nutjob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 18:39:11 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:39:11 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 06:24 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:51:15 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 07/14/2016 12:10 PM, juan wrote: >>> Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts >> Sure, sure. You do that nutjob. > I already did stupid scumbag > > > >From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 23:13:17 2016 > > "Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being > seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him." > Indeed, that's what has happened. Still waiting for someone to contact the police about his alleged rapes. Nutjob. > > > "The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but it appears to use github's servers. > http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net Hasn't github been > 'compromised'? " > > ** hacking conspiracy against github too! I never mentioned hacking anything. Nutjob. The poster had an account. Nutjob > > > >From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 14:25:47 2016 > > " You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of > orchestrated institutional slander?" > > "The reason I noted it so quickly is because Institutional > Slander campaigns aren't new, " > > > > > So, let's now hear your conspiracy theory, scumbag. > So I'm still waiting for you to show me one I've posted. Nutjob. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 18:44:24 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:44:24 -0700 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57883FF8.6070104@riseup.net> Every time I respond to juan :> On 07/14/2016 05:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > KGB Man Putin Trolls the CIA Like a Boss > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-man-putin-trolls-cia-boss-video/ri15618 > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 14 09:38:55 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:38:55 +0300 Subject: Tor project changes directorship In-Reply-To: <5787A798.6030107@riseup.net> References: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> <5787A798.6030107@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160714163855.GD689@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 07:54:16AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > Do you also believe the bug-bounty program they just activated is there > to collect info on people willing to help find tor security flaws so the > CIA can spook, stalk, and assassinate those people? > Is tor's bug bounty still INVITE ONLY? (search the web for reference). Shit like this doesn't make any sense to me. Anyway, IMHO the goal of the bounty was to find low hanging fruit backdoors, introduced mainly by n-tuple agents with legal write access and other actors with illegal write access. As someone wrote long ago, "onions are fragile". From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 14 20:16:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 20:16:43 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> On 07/14/2016 06:55 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:39:11 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 07/14/2016 06:24 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:51:15 -0700 >>> Rayzer wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/14/2016 12:10 PM, juan wrote: >>>>> Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts >>>> Sure, sure. You do that nutjob. >>> I already did stupid scumbag >>> >>> >>> >From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 23:13:17 2016 >>> >>> "Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being >>> seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander >>> him." >>> >> Indeed, that's what has happened. Still waiting for someone to contact >> the police about his alleged rapes. Nutjob. > > So you are saying that the rest of tor scumbags are > 'slandering' their 'ex' comrade, and 'freedom fighter' > appelbaum? I'm saying you're a trolling nutjob. Nutjob. It's not 'the rest'. It's 'a few'. There's a difference Nutjob. > > How can such a horrible conspiracy be possible?? You sound like > a nutjob rayzer... > > And of course, a leading 'anarchist' like you get his > facts from the police. Isn't that cute... > I don't get facts from the police. If and when it occurs I get INFORMATION from them. There's a difference ... Nutjob. > >>> >>> "The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but it appears >>> to use github's servers. >>> http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net Hasn't github been >>> 'compromised'? " >>> >>> ** hacking conspiracy against github too! >> >> I never mentioned hacking anything. Nutjob. The poster had an >> account. Nutjob > > Well, it's obvious that you are a charlantan too. > > Github has been 'compromised'... That seems to be the sentiment of quite a few people who put their code there... Nutjob. > > > >>> " You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of >>> orchestrated institutional slander?" >>> >>> "The reason I noted it so quickly is because Institutional >>> Slander campaigns aren't new, " > >> So I'm still waiting for you to show me one I've posted. Nutjob. >> > Come on rayzer. You *are* pretty stupid, but even in your case > it's clear that you are going the extra mile here and playing > even more dumb. > > > There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", > which just so happens to have been orchestrated by...your tor > friends!!!! > > Go ahead, razyer, do play your part =) > > There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", by people who have a bone to pick with ioerror, and it doesn't seem to be the 'bone' that allegedly got rammed up their allegedly unwilling asses or else there's be a police report from ONE OF THEM by now, and for your information, NUTJOB, I have no friends that came from ANYTHING related to computers or the industry. I make acquaintances with Libertarian psychopaths (like you nutjob), I don't befriend them. ArAr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 14 11:11:09 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:11:09 +0300 Subject: Tor project changes directorship In-Reply-To: <5787C987.8010601@riseup.net> References: <20160714060651.GD30352@x220-a02> <5787A798.6030107@riseup.net> <20160714163855.GD689@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5787C987.8010601@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160714181109.GE689@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 10:19:03AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/14/2016 09:38 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 07:54:16AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> Do you also believe the bug-bounty program they just activated is there > >> to collect info on people willing to help find tor security flaws so the > >> CIA can spook, stalk, and assassinate those people? > >> > > Is tor's bug bounty still INVITE ONLY? (search the web for reference). > > > > Shit like this doesn't make any sense to me. > > > > Anyway, IMHO the goal of the bounty was to find low hanging fruit > > backdoors, introduced mainly by n-tuple agents with legal write access > > and other actors with illegal write access. As someone wrote long ago, > > "onions are fragile". > > > > > > Why doesn't that make any sense? The way everyone spews on about it > you'd think if someone actually did fix some holes the gubmint didn't > want fixed they'd be found dead in an alligator-inhabited ditch > somewhere in bumfuck Florida. I'd imagine torproject also want people > who have SOME experience. Does that mean anyone qualified is compromised? > lol. certainly the onions want "talent". there is shortage of "talent" AFAICT. why the onions don't get audit from a "certified" sickuarity corporation? you know the joke what mericuntia is? "a place where russian jews teach chinese students". From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 14 04:54:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:54:17 +1000 Subject: overthrowing a powerfully united, cohesive nation of people - US Senator Richard Black on Syria Message-ID: <20160714115417.GF30352@x220-a02> US Senator Richard Black: "We Have Never Done Anything More Loathsome or Despicable Than What We're Doing in Syria." http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/us-senator-we-have-never-done-anything.html (Slightly slow to start, but some amazing quotes and some (new for me) historical facts from this one. A very small sampling: " the CIA could not go before Congress and say, “Look, we intend to attack a neutral, non-belligerent country, where the people are happy, prosperous, and enjoy greater women’s rights and religious freedom than any other Arab nation; we’re going to rip it to shreds, we’re going to open up a torrent of bloodshed: Please give us an appropriation so we can purchase weapons to do it.” " " Within three days from the city of Hama, 70,000 Christians streamed into Damascus; why Damascus? Because they knew that President Assad would protect the Christians. He would protect anyone who was under attack by the Muslim Brotherhood. " " if you want to consider whether the people of Syria are for or against their government and their President, just consider this: Syria has a population of 23 million people. It is in the sixth year of a war in which it has been opposed by the United States, Great Britain, France, NATO, the European Union,... " " Where have we [USA] come?! What has come of this country?! " " Extremely reckless, nearly an insane American policy, driven by Saudi wealth that lines the pockets of top people in this country. It’s sad. " ) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 18:24:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 22:24:16 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:51:15 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/14/2016 12:10 PM, juan wrote: > > Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts > > Sure, sure. You do that nutjob. I already did stupid scumbag >From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 23:13:17 2016 "Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander him." "The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but it appears to use github's servers. http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net Hasn't github been 'compromised'? " ** hacking conspiracy against github too! >From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jun 7 14:25:47 2016 " You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of orchestrated institutional slander?" "The reason I noted it so quickly is because Institutional Slander campaigns aren't new, " So, let's now hear your conspiracy theory, scumbag. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 18:55:51 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 22:55:51 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:39:11 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/14/2016 06:24 PM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:51:15 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> > >> On 07/14/2016 12:10 PM, juan wrote: > >>> Sure, sure. While I search for your past posts > >> Sure, sure. You do that nutjob. > > I already did stupid scumbag > > > > > > >From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jun 4 23:13:17 2016 > > > > "Appelbaum's departure under seemingly normal circumstances being > > seized as excuse to (what appears to be) institutionally slander > > him." > > > > Indeed, that's what has happened. Still waiting for someone to contact > the police about his alleged rapes. Nutjob. So you are saying that the rest of tor scumbags are 'slandering' their 'ex' comrade, and 'freedom fighter' appelbaum? How can such a horrible conspiracy be possible?? You sound like a nutjob rayzer... And of course, a leading 'anarchist' like you get his facts from the police. Isn't that cute... > > > > > > "The smear site is privacy-protected as to ownership but it appears > > to use github's servers. > > http://en.utrace.de/?query=jacobappelbaum.net Hasn't github been > > 'compromised'? " > > > > ** hacking conspiracy against github too! > > > I never mentioned hacking anything. Nutjob. The poster had an > account. Nutjob Well, it's obvious that you are a charlantan too. Github has been 'compromised'... > > " You mean like my "Mistake" assuming ioerror was the victim of > > orchestrated institutional slander?" > > > > "The reason I noted it so quickly is because Institutional > > Slander campaigns aren't new, " > So I'm still waiting for you to show me one I've posted. Nutjob. > Come on rayzer. You *are* pretty stupid, but even in your case it's clear that you are going the extra mile here and playing even more dumb. There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", which just so happens to have been orchestrated by...your tor friends!!!! Go ahead, razyer, do play your part =) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 21:07:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 01:07:16 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578860d4.42b2370a.ebcb1.0a5b@mx.google.com> On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 20:16:43 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > I'm saying you're a trolling nutjob. Nutjob. > > It's not 'the rest'. It's 'a few'. lol! you are delusional =) Do you know that your beloved tor project threw that 'anarchist', pentagon-financed clown appelbaum under the bus? How did that happen, sonny? =) How is it possible that the tor freedon fighters didn't show any sort of 'solidarity' for their brother appelbaum? =) How do explain what's going on with a 'few' high-ranking tor cunts, sonny? Why are you so unwilling to share your little conspiracy theory? =) You know what you should be explaining? You should explain what kind of retard 'trusts' a 'project' staffed by gentlemen like the tor gentlemen. The tor gentlemen : on the pentagon's payroll. Having CIA employees. Lunatic left-wing 'feminist' fascists. Censors. And above all, backstabbing scumbags. They sure are people who deserve "full trust" =) > There's a difference Nutjob. In your delusional mind? sure. > > > > How can such a horrible conspiracy be possible?? You sound > > like a nutjob rayzer... > > > > And of course, a leading 'anarchist' like you get his > > facts from the police. Isn't that cute... > > > > I don't get facts from the police. If and when it occurs I get > INFORMATION from them. You say nothing happened because your government's police force (or germany's) says nothing happened? You are the king of anarchists rayzer! And's how's the DVM doing? Are people showing their papieren in den autobahnen? > > There's a difference ... Nutjob. for charlatans like you, yes. > > > > Well, it's obvious that you are a charlantan too. > > > > Github has been 'compromised'... > > That seems to be the sentiment of quite a few people You are rambling =) > who put their > code there... Nutjob. > There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", by people > who have a bone to pick with ioerror, Oh. People. And who are these people? =) What do they do for a living? =) What are their political views? =) Are you talking about your friends from the tor 'project' inc. ? > and it doesn't seem to be the > 'bone' that allegedly got rammed up their allegedly unwilling asses > or else there's be a police report from ONE OF THEM by now, and for > your information, NUTJOB, I have no friends that came from ANYTHING > related to computers or the industry. Come on rayzer. Since you are a high ranking, highly dishonest tor-bot, it's quite safe to assume that they are your friends. Or employeers. Or something like that... > I make acquaintances with > Libertarian psychopaths (like you nutjob), I don't befriend them. lol! I think the psychos are your friends...and family. Didn't you mention your dad was a psycho from the US military? =) > > ArAr > From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jul 14 23:27:24 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 02:27:24 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> On 07/14/2016 11:16 PM, Rayzer wrote: [ Ker-SNIP! ] > There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", by people who > have a bone to pick with ioerror, and it doesn't seem to be the 'bone' > that allegedly got rammed up their allegedly unwilling asses or else > there's be a police report from ONE OF THEM by now, and for your > information, NUTJOB, I have no friends that came from ANYTHING related > to computers or the industry. I make acquaintances with Libertarian > psychopaths (like you nutjob), I don't befriend them. > > ArAr I have myself been declared a motherfucker by Juan's executive fiat, though not if I recall correctly a Statist Pig. Perhaps this post will rectify that deficiency. Only time will tell. Not everyone seems to be in agreement about how horrible ioerror is. His defenders include at least one individual who isn't afraid of disclosing information that she knows sounds "paranoid," in the process of disclosing her take on Jake. https://contraspin.co.nz/tag/jacob-appelbaum/ https://suzi3d.com/ The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather a big data point. Lots of people are willing to throw stones, nobody is willing to face a potential perjury charge or countersuit. Maybe nobody was actually harmed, beyond hurt feelings. Any male geek person with Our Mr. Applebaum's "celebrity" status who is also (in my heteronormative radical queer opinion) good looking, is very likely to avail himself of the sexual perquisites of social prestige. If that is the case with Our Mr. Applebaum, it would inevitably result in at least /some/ hurt feelings, even if he was a perfect fucking knight in shining armor - which he probably ain't, because who is? Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity Politics fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, and its fan base demographic intersects with the fan base of everything that even looks "radical and culturally cutting edge" to a fuzzy studies major, including the TOR Project. In this social matrix, acts of simple careless idiocy, devoid of malice and producing no real harm, could lead to all of the charges we have seen. If you are of a paranoid bent, ask whether a political warfare operation could produce the exact results seen in Our Mr. Applebaum's recent history. Seeking out unsatisfied customers of Brand Jake who are associated with evangelists for Feminazi fashion would be a snap: Thanks to ubiquitous surveillance with automated social network mapping and psychographic classification, finding people matching the desired profile and history would only require a work order. Develop one agent - witting or not - and the rest handles itself. (If, and please pardon the expression, Our Mr. Applebaum has exposed himself in any way.) Of course, this kind of thing is unheard of. Unless the name Mendax means anything to you. It is possible that Our Mr. Applebaum is a raging asshole who routinely mistreats women in serious ways. But if so, the lack of any criminal charges or civil action is surprising. It is possible that he is a victim of spontaneous combustion comparable to the Mean Girls on the cheerleading squad getting some amusing revenge, motivated by nothing more serious than some naive sap's socially awkward behavior. That model fits the available evidence better than the criminal model. It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was asked to arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could quote a very reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. The beauty part: By itself this observation proves nothing, as it is difficult or impossible to prove absent a credible inside source. That's the beauty part of the institution of State Secrecy. From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 15 03:09:37 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 06:09:37 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 15, 2016, at 2:27 AM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > > > On 07/14/2016 11:16 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > [ Ker-SNIP! ] > >> There's an "orchestrasted institutional slander campaign", by people who >> have a bone to pick with ioerror, and it doesn't seem to be the 'bone' >> that allegedly got rammed up their allegedly unwilling asses or else >> there's be a police report from ONE OF THEM by now, and for your >> information, NUTJOB, I have no friends that came from ANYTHING related >> to computers or the industry. I make acquaintances with Libertarian >> psychopaths (like you nutjob), I don't befriend them. >> >> ArAr > > I have myself been declared a motherfucker by Juan's executive fiat, > though not if I recall correctly a Statist Pig. Perhaps this post will > rectify that deficiency. Only time will tell. > > Not everyone seems to be in agreement about how horrible ioerror is. > His defenders include at least one individual who isn't afraid of > disclosing information that she knows sounds "paranoid," in the process > of disclosing her take on Jake. > > https://contraspin.co.nz/tag/jacob-appelbaum/ > > https://suzi3d.com/ > > The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather a > big data point. Lots of people are willing to throw stones, nobody is > willing to face a potential perjury charge or countersuit. Maybe nobody > was actually harmed, beyond hurt feelings. > > Any male geek person with Our Mr. Applebaum's "celebrity" status who is > also (in my heteronormative radical queer opinion) good looking, is very > likely to avail himself of the sexual perquisites of social prestige. > If that is the case with Our Mr. Applebaum, it would inevitably result > in at least /some/ hurt feelings, even if he was a perfect fucking > knight in shining armor - which he probably ain't, because who is? > > Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity Politics > fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, and its fan base demographic > intersects with the fan base of everything that even looks "radical and > culturally cutting edge" to a fuzzy studies major, including the TOR > Project. In this social matrix, acts of simple careless idiocy, devoid > of malice and producing no real harm, could lead to all of the charges > we have seen. > > If you are of a paranoid bent, ask whether a political warfare operation > could produce the exact results seen in Our Mr. Applebaum's recent > history. Seeking out unsatisfied customers of Brand Jake who are > associated with evangelists for Feminazi fashion would be a snap: > Thanks to ubiquitous surveillance with automated social network mapping > and psychographic classification, finding people matching the desired > profile and history would only require a work order. Develop one agent > - witting or not - and the rest handles itself. (If, and please pardon > the expression, Our Mr. Applebaum has exposed himself in any way.) > > Of course, this kind of thing is unheard of. Unless the name Mendax > means anything to you. > > It is possible that Our Mr. Applebaum is a raging asshole who routinely > mistreats women in serious ways. But if so, the lack of any criminal > charges or civil action is surprising. > > It is possible that he is a victim of spontaneous combustion comparable > to the Mean Girls on the cheerleading squad getting some amusing > revenge, motivated by nothing more serious than some naive sap's > socially awkward behavior. That model fits the available evidence > better than the criminal model. > > It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was asked to > arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could quote a very > reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. The beauty part: By > itself this observation proves nothing, as it is difficult or impossible > to prove absent a credible inside source. That's the beauty part of the > institution of State Secrecy. Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? He may talk about him a lot, but he's not Julian Assange. Maybe he was just a douche bag with a few people too many and they threw up some exaggerated reports to get him chucked. In any event, he doesn't seem to be fighting back particularly hard. John From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 15 03:46:22 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 06:46:22 -0400 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: On July 14, 2016 8:02:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >KGB Man Putin Trolls the CIA Like a Boss >http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-man-putin-trolls-cia-boss-video/ri15618 Cool speech, props to Putin. Although it would've come off even better had he made it shirtless while straddling a horse bareback, somewhere in the Siberian steppes ;) John From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 07:49:44 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 07:49:44 -0700 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5788F808.50804@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 03:46 AM, John wrote: > > On July 14, 2016 8:02:53 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> KGB Man Putin Trolls the CIA Like a Boss >> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-man-putin-trolls-cia-boss-video/ri15618 > Cool speech, props to Putin. > > Although it would've come off even better had he made it shirtless while straddling a horse bareback, somewhere in the Siberian steppes ;) > > John > > He DOES know how to charm the media.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 08:02:32 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 08:02:32 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <5788FB08.8070705@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 03:09 AM, John Newman wrote: > Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? He's close to Glenn Greeenwald. Therefore "Snowden". I suspect Greenwald IS the long-range target of an op like this being out LGBT and all, and the attack on ioerror was a 'shot across the bow'. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/193327464733343746 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 15 05:42:58 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 08:42:58 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160715121648.GG16437@x220-a02> References: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715121648.GG16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <7e2295acdd152d4ec63d7caf598564f7@synfin.org> On 2016-07-15 08:16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > There is a phrase, and you can pretend I said this immortal quote but > it would not be the case that I originated it: > > "One man can change the world." > > A man who stands on principle can be many things which can change a > particular "world" (if not the world at large): > > - the canary in the mine whistleblower, e.g. "keeping the TOR bastards > honest" and thus causing a lot of angst for those who wanted to use > Tor for their state-sponsored human-subversive intentions > > - the sole individual who facilitates/ is the conduit for key > transmissions of whistleblowers and their information, to a > publisher > who has infrastructure to publish bypassing national "intelligence > networks" - e.g. to connect a Chelsie Manning to a Julian Assange. > > Remember - there was (perhaps still is, we don't know because it's so > top secretive) a grand jury out to hang draw and quarter Julian > Assange, > an Australian - I think Australia has an extradition treaty with USA, > we > certainly host Pine Gap which is a global hub for the USA/ five eyes. > > HUGE resources have been put into this case against Julian > - plane flights > > - enrollement of foreign so-called "sovereign" governments such as > UK, Sweden, Australia > > - subversion of the Swedish justice department > > - unilaterally grounding the aeroplane of the president of Ecuador > > - and probably plenty more behind the scenes which we are not aware of > publicly. > > THIS IS F@#$ING HUGE!!! > > The USA/CIA/FBI/NorthAmerican Government wants Julian Assange really, > really badly! > > From inside the Ecuadorian embassy, Julian --continues-- to publish > things which embarrass the North American establishment oligarchs - > Hitlery emails, banking scandals, war files and plenty more. > > Wikileaks (with all its problems which around these parts some are > aware > of) is a MASSIVE thorn in the side of the Empire of the North American > and Atlantic Regime. > I absolutely agree with everything you've said about Assange, and fully think his interment in Ecuador (the embassy) stems from the massive embarrassment he caused and continues to cause to governments, corporations, etc. > Jacob Applebaum was a key figure facilitating the conduit of leakers to > Assange, and, apparently, certainly quite possibly, keeping the > bastards > honest at Tor Inc, which was supposed to be an American Military and > CIA > operation - and here was this pipsqueak Jacob taking the "published > principles of an intention (however weakly implemented) toward aiding > public anonymity of transmission of information", literally! > > Jacob Applebaum took that fucking intention fucking literally! > > The fucking hide of him!!! > I don't know enough about what Appelbaum ever did beyond some (IMO) over-hyped "art projects" and name-dropping Assange every 5 minutes in that internal tor IRC chat that was leaked. So, seeing I have a lack of knowledge here, I'll take you at your word at his importance. > Perhaps he was grateful for the opportunity to bow out? IDK, just > postulating of course, but hell, if he really was the only man truly > standing in the gaggle of self interested, intensely feminazi and pro > CIA agents employees of Tor Inc, for that many years, I imagine he'd > "fucking had enough". Perhaps few men could stand as long as he did in > his situation... most are armchair anarchists, armchair Mannings, > armchair Assanges, waving our arms at "What a fucking bad job they're > doing, I could do it SO much better". Perhaps you're right! :) -- John Newman From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 14 17:02:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:02:53 +1000 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss Message-ID: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> KGB Man Putin Trolls the CIA Like a Boss http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-man-putin-trolls-cia-boss-video/ri15618 From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 15 07:46:21 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 10:46:21 -0400 Subject: Fwd: chris just granted you 15 more invites (ALSO: Keybase Filesystem) In-Reply-To: <01000155eed7307f-09dafaf7-699d-473b-8167-17fce3b8b0cb-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <01000155eed7307f-09dafaf7-699d-473b-8167-17fce3b8b0cb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <03ab17daf1f7cd7c922b384039fb0040@synfin.org> Does anyone want a keybase invite? They just granted me 15 more. Up till now its been a basically useless service (IMO), although the new keybase filesystem feature actually looks interesting.... -- John -------- Original Message -------- Subject: chris just granted you 15 more invites (ALSO: Keybase Filesystem) Date: 2016-07-15 09:55 From: "Keybase.io" To: jnn at synfin.org Dear nixen, CHRIS [1] (CHRIS at CHRISCOYNE.COM) just granted you 15 more Keybase invitations, which you can send to friends. Please use them wisely! The signup queue is > 25,000 people long right now, and this bypasses the line entirely. There are now TWO WAYS to invite people: 1. THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY. Use the tab on the top of the website [2]. 2. BY SHARING ENCRYPTED FILES in the Keybase filesystem [3]. Just drop files in a folder with you and _username at service_, such as /KEYBASE/PRIVATE/NIXEN,SOMEONE at TWITTER/. That actually works. Real end-to-end encryption. A popup window will arise, like the godhead at dawn, and tell you what happens next. That is our prophesy. _Either way, you're now invited to play with the Keybase filesystem. Make sure to run the latest Keybase [4] app._ Thanks, Keybase Links: ------ [1] https://keybase.io/chris [2] https://keybase.io/ [3] https://keybase.io/docs/kbfs [4] https://keybase.io/download -- John From catskillmarina at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 08:09:13 2016 From: catskillmarina at gmail.com (Marina Brown) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:09:13 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <7e2295acdd152d4ec63d7caf598564f7@synfin.org> References: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715121648.GG16437@x220-a02> <7e2295acdd152d4ec63d7caf598564f7@synfin.org> Message-ID: On 07/15/2016 08:42 AM, John Newman wrote: > On 2016-07-15 08:16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> There is a phrase, and you can pretend I said this immortal quote but >> it would not be the case that I originated it: >> >> "One man can change the world." >> >> A man who stands on principle can be many things which can change a >> particular "world" (if not the world at large): >> >> - the canary in the mine whistleblower, e.g. "keeping the TOR bastards >> honest" and thus causing a lot of angst for those who wanted to use >> Tor for their state-sponsored human-subversive intentions >> >> - the sole individual who facilitates/ is the conduit for key >> transmissions of whistleblowers and their information, to a publisher >> who has infrastructure to publish bypassing national "intelligence >> networks" - e.g. to connect a Chelsie Manning to a Julian Assange. >> >> Remember - there was (perhaps still is, we don't know because it's so >> top secretive) a grand jury out to hang draw and quarter Julian Assange, >> an Australian - I think Australia has an extradition treaty with USA, we >> certainly host Pine Gap which is a global hub for the USA/ five eyes. >> >> HUGE resources have been put into this case against Julian >> - plane flights >> >> - enrollement of foreign so-called "sovereign" governments such as >> UK, Sweden, Australia >> >> - subversion of the Swedish justice department >> >> - unilaterally grounding the aeroplane of the president of Ecuador >> >> - and probably plenty more behind the scenes which we are not aware of >> publicly. >> >> THIS IS F@#$ING HUGE!!! >> >> The USA/CIA/FBI/NorthAmerican Government wants Julian Assange really, >> really badly! >> >> From inside the Ecuadorian embassy, Julian --continues-- to publish >> things which embarrass the North American establishment oligarchs - >> Hitlery emails, banking scandals, war files and plenty more. >> >> Wikileaks (with all its problems which around these parts some are aware >> of) is a MASSIVE thorn in the side of the Empire of the North American >> and Atlantic Regime. >> > > I absolutely agree with everything you've said about Assange, and fully > think his interment in Ecuador (the embassy) stems from the massive > embarrassment > he caused and continues to cause to governments, corporations, etc. > >> Jacob Applebaum was a key figure facilitating the conduit of leakers to >> Assange, and, apparently, certainly quite possibly, keeping the bastards >> honest at Tor Inc, which was supposed to be an American Military and CIA >> operation - and here was this pipsqueak Jacob taking the "published >> principles of an intention (however weakly implemented) toward aiding >> public anonymity of transmission of information", literally! >> >> Jacob Applebaum took that fucking intention fucking literally! >> >> The fucking hide of him!!! >> > > I don't know enough about what Appelbaum ever did beyond some (IMO) > over-hyped > "art projects" and name-dropping Assange every 5 minutes in that > internal tor > IRC chat that was leaked. So, seeing I have a lack of knowledge here, > I'll take you at your word at his importance. > > >> Perhaps he was grateful for the opportunity to bow out? IDK, just >> postulating of course, but hell, if he really was the only man truly >> standing in the gaggle of self interested, intensely feminazi and pro >> CIA agents employees of Tor Inc, for that many years, I imagine he'd >> "fucking had enough". Perhaps few men could stand as long as he did in >> his situation... most are armchair anarchists, armchair Mannings, >> armchair Assanges, waving our arms at "What a fucking bad job they're >> doing, I could do it SO much better". > > Perhaps you're right! :) > As a former labor organizer i know that when you are under a microscope every personal fault you have will be used against you. If you are a minute late you will be legally fired. If you take too lake a break you will be canned. If you are a political organizer it will be your personal faults that will be used against you - your excessed with booze or drugs or inability to control impulses or in this case apparent intoxication with power in relationships. I very much enjoyed Jakes presentations but i can see how rock star status can be too much for some. It's important to stay sober when you are under the gun. --- Marina -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 11:57:04 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 11:36 AM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:33:26 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > >> WTF is "emotional abuse"? Calling a bitch "bitch"? @juan will get >> death sentence for "emotional abuse" just from this list, I suspect. > Exactly right =) > > > > It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about people and their personalities for the feds. As can be seen with the FBI's ongoing sting ops of Muslims, they tend to tap people who are mentally defective to assist them. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 09:14:33 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 13:14:33 -0300 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: <5788F808.50804@riseup.net> References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> <5788F808.50804@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 15, 2016 12:00 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > He DOES know how to charm the media.... Yep, so much charm... ;) http://9gag.com/gag/a44bPMA And you can use it to avoid rapes too. It certainly will kill any healthy libido, aff... Uglier than elephant underwear for men! (>_<) ugh!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 457 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 15 11:13:15 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:13:15 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578927BB.1080309@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/15/2016 06:09 AM, John Newman wrote: >> On Jul 15, 2016, at 2:27 AM, Steve Kinney >> wrote: >> It is possible that Our Mr. Applebaum is a raging asshole who >> routinely mistreats women in serious ways. But if so, the lack >> of any criminal charges or civil action is surprising. >> >> It is possible that he is a victim of spontaneous combustion >> comparable to the Mean Girls on the cheerleading squad getting >> some amusing revenge, motivated by nothing more serious than some >> naive sap's socially awkward behavior. That model fits the >> available evidence better than the criminal model. >> >> It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was >> asked to arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could >> quote a very reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. The >> beauty part: By itself this observation proves nothing, as it is >> difficult or impossible to prove absent a credible inside source. >> That's the beauty part of the institution of State Secrecy. > > Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any > kind of massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from > taking him down? He may talk about him a lot, but he's not Julian > Assange. I don't know. He may have done as little as personally offended someone with the power to order his disposal. It does seem a bit much to call a conspiratorial operation at this scale "massive" in the world where the 911 attack happened, and U.S. propaganda assets continue to sell false narratives of /many/ violent events to the public. The stunning success of efforts to manage Western press coverage of the annexation of Libya on Secretary Clinton's watch is more frightening to me than the whole history of the Bush/Obama Administration's nuclear brinksmanship vs. the Russian Federation, still in progress and apparently locked in for eight more years. > Maybe he was just a douche bag with a few people too many and they > threw up some exaggerated reports to get him chucked. To me that seems the most likely answer. "Douchebag" is in the eye of the beholder, and it doesn't take much to trigger disproportionate retaliation in a hostile workplace environment. > In any event, he doesn't seem to be fighting back particularly > hard. Lao Tzu has a lot to say about the strategic value of calculated non-action. Attorneys generally advise world + dog to wait for the opposition to disclose everything it has before doing anything other than assert the right to remain silent. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXiSe7AAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq0tAH/2hcKDlsKjKUJtXOBWR0Dhjf B1W8AlgAT3xPoSpVY0Wwy2OdBSTXmF24WQgzeRkhN0UmoPISGgQQMLUYIHK0KOSE fuRuMLIgns01Zqa3qaAyoyFjgtNhh4L3a3oTU0lglo2u6Ub7ZYXBO2jP19dJFR1N iCJj8YSw2XyZwzfOTlCeAccq5JbY+TR4AzAPeNmj1x4vKf0A9Xp6ztuuknO33GLk qi5YYDwEbDQ/sDrUQzUFlytXcRTqFnfjRmEnkVSh+fgA08FdDynAr4nTZfFMzWqS bRkVxt43udOS3+D6onquUpDPCBS2EDQdciEvO7brj0B9H5YP0Se89Vz9V83NVpM= =a62V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From guninski at guninski.com Fri Jul 15 04:33:26 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:33:26 +0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:27:24AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather a > big data point. Lots of people are willing to throw stones, nobody is > willing to face a potential perjury charge or countersuit. Maybe nobody > was actually harmed, beyond hurt feelings. > I don't know what the truth is. Just to play devil's advocate, lack of proceedings might mean out of court deal (I don't believe this is the case). > Any male geek person with Our Mr. Applebaum's "celebrity" status who is > also (in my heteronormative radical queer opinion) good looking, is very > likely to avail himself of the sexual perquisites of social prestige. Well, feds/nsa are known to use ladies to seduce people and then blackmail them (probably this is since ancient times). Isn't this very close to Assange's charges in Sweden? They look quite made up to me. Are most activists rapists? This appears highly unlikely to me. According to The Guardian, Applebaum was accused of "emotional abuse". WTF is "emotional abuse"? Calling a bitch "bitch"? @juan will get death sentence for "emotional abuse" just from this list, I suspect. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 11:36:37 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 15:36:37 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:33:26 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > WTF is "emotional abuse"? Calling a bitch "bitch"? @juan will get > death sentence for "emotional abuse" just from this list, I suspect. Exactly right =) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 11:54:32 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 15:54:32 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578930c0.8805370a.74af7.9ad9@mx.google.com> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 02:27:24 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > > I have myself been declared a motherfucker by Juan's executive fiat, You mean, because you repeat stupid nsa propaganda about tor? > though not if I recall correctly a Statist Pig. Yeah, unlike rayzer you do make good libertarian points - sometimes. > Perhaps this post > will rectify that deficiency. Only time will tell. Let's see... > The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather > a big data point. Ah, so, you are a statist pig after all =) Why don't you cut the crap Steve and pick the explanation where rayzer left it. To recap : rayzer explained nothing, so you can start right at the begining. > Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity > Politics fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, Yeah, true, and irrelevant. The issue is, pay attention, How is it possible for the amazing, transparent, and 'freedom fighting' tor project to use all those dirty tricks against one of their most amazing transparent and freedom fighting members? If you don't understand what I am asking because of my obvious and admitedly mediocre command of the english language, ASK FOR CLARIFICATION. If you don't, and avoid the question like rayzer does, then I'll correctly conclude that you are just as dishonest as he is. > It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was asked > to arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could quote a very > reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. So it's just a matter of waiting for the next 'financial report' from tor inc. in order to learn how much the tor project paid to get rid of their accomplice appelbaum? The report will have an entry like "psyop against appelbaum.........$300,000*.........CIA" "*paid through syverson's cayman offshore account" > The beauty part: By > itself this observation proves nothing, as it is difficult or > impossible to prove absent a credible inside source. That's the > beauty part of the institution of State Secrecy. > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 12:23:21 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:23:21 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > people and their personalities for the feds. Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > As can be seen with the FBI's ongoing sting ops of Muslims, they tend > to tap people who are mentally defective to assist them. > > Rr > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 12:54:00 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:54:00 -0300 Subject: schneier's concentration camp Message-ID: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other external factors or events." -------------- So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. Also look at this comment from one of his supremacist bots : "Shachar • July 15, 2016 2:07 AM @free, I always wondered about such comments. What makes Miko Peled's version of how things went down more reliable than other sources?..." That guy shachar is replying to sombebody who used the nickname "free". So now look for the post that schachar is replying to? OOPS. It doesn't exist. And that's because it was deleted by schneier =) And I know because I made the censored post : Here's the post deleted by tor's director and neocunt schneier " The truth about the jew land thieves (and worse) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZfnpN4Dfc https://mikopeled.com/ " Only three lines, but three lines too much for worthless scumbags like schneier =) Here's a cached version of the page, just in case... http://archive.is/v4MuE From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 15 15:27:50 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 18:27:50 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57896366.20800@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/15/2016 03:23 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 Rayzer > wrote: > > >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about >> people and their personalities for the feds. > > > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) Kind of a pointless one, though: We can reasonably presume that posting here results in enhanced surveillance and analysis of everything one does on any network accessible to our Security Services, which would include... all networks of every kind. Just testing the threshold of irrational response to insults would add very little to the resulting profiles. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXiWNmAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqKVUH/3hHbF/3vPcaDatMMMqNSEQ2 b4zgrVMIlGh9FjXlTXRLVY1lkLVhdKB3IF1qvIPeYrKjdPFTSBYMYMweFXyC6Vj4 4f/Oz+b8tdDcBR0cp3h5TUlTldZu6/C3S+PpEPS3XFh+MTmx05Ty3fPLg+fvUvXX yAuXpHp7+F0fVhuW9DOHmWO/ZLAZqbNOZ8eYKjQ5XfcGMI/DNew/S5QYM5adpRo9 4Nx3FB+ZM9N1SZo0tZM+tKhAuDpX2Q0Va1T2eMtCQcaHfCsmYz9wcepBfbKJmYsH ETJ8P2x9AZqemI0rpyz6Jtpco+vNdqEwFjW6v7MvYRc7e2IPkzHlVKSEcT6vPqA= =gIvj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From afalex169 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 08:29:26 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 18:29:26 +0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715121648.GG16437@x220-a02> <7e2295acdd152d4ec63d7caf598564f7@synfin.org> Message-ID: Zen, thank you very much for your great insights: Zenaan Harkness : > !!! Jacob Applebaum took that fucking intention fucking literally! > The fucking hide of him!!! > How DARE anyone take principled intentions literally, ESPECIALLY when > the neoc9nt American establishment is paying for it. > FFS, Wake UP! > ___ !!! if he really was the only man truly > standing in the gaggle of self interested, intensely feminazi and pro > CIA agents employees of Tor Inc, for that many years, I imagine he'd > "fucking had enough". > ___ !!! unless one becomes successful at actually changing some part of the > empire, then he'd become a rapist > with public "witnesses" telling their story. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1273 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 15 16:00:27 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 19:00:27 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578930c0.8805370a.74af7.9ad9@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578930c0.8805370a.74af7.9ad9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57896B0B.3090808@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/15/2016 02:54 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 02:27:24 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: >> The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems >> rather a big data point. > > Ah, so, you are a statist pig after all =) > > Why don't you cut the crap Steve and pick the explanation where > rayzer left it. To recap : rayzer explained nothing, so you can > start right at the begining. I think I already did that? >> Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity >> Politics fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, > > Yeah, true, and irrelevant. Looking at the motives and means of people who have opportunities is usually very relevant in determining who did what and why. Of course, that might be inconvenient for anyone who comes in with a preconceived notion that explains it all. > The issue is, pay attention, How is it possible for the amazing, > transparent, and 'freedom fighting' tor project to use all those > dirty tricks against one of their most amazing transparent and > freedom fighting members? > > If you don't understand what I am asking because of my obvious and > admitedly mediocre command of the english language, ASK FOR > CLARIFICATION. > > If you don't, and avoid the question like rayzer does, then I'll > correctly conclude that you are just as dishonest as he is. What I see here is an assumption that the TOR Project itself, or some element thereof, would be the actor behind any effort to kick Our Mr. Applebaum out of the project and "activist" communities in general, via a reputation attack. I would not rule that out, but I would include the whole alphabet soup of TLAs on the list of potential suspects. The TOR Drama includes multilateral conflict of interest between the State Department (funding TOR as a vector for transmitting State propaganda to foreign audiences), CIA (a love/hate relationship with TOR; helps some missions, hinders others), the FBI (we hates all nasty TORses, hates them we does), and God knows who else. If the TOR Project ever manages to well and truly piss the State Department off that would mean Big Trouble: Including maybe a huge shake-up like we are seeing now? Just closing it down by pulling the funding would probably not be an option, as that would massively complicate lots of political warfare projects in progress against "regimes" targeted for disposal. The incoming President wouldn't like that, and we know what happens to people who do things she doesn't like. >> It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was >> asked to arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could >> quote a very reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. > > > So it's just a matter of waiting for the next 'financial report' > from tor inc. in order to learn how much the tor project paid to > get rid of their accomplice appelbaum? > > The report will have an entry like > > "psyop against appelbaum.........$300,000*.........CIA" > > "*paid through syverson's cayman offshore account" Now yer just being silly. A project like taking Applebaum down could be paid for out of petty cash and/or by raiding the office coffee fund. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXiWsKAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqN6kH/jtPcBX6uCODPVRWcL4sMqPx qQkUtwMcJiFYjKZ95pFnl/xOgLoNkR/VlBzRV50Maz6qL9nGT0PMy/UiUt7YJAzx J7SUe/CFDfxJOfmxgdgtBu5TZmA9v8T+R3DEK4X+xZWeDmIZERiP1aYwptTOnHD5 Zn7eQA3fVcMROddtBvQDGG+7Y/dERf6VMmVtwSHj4Oa3mEcbNvZXmPPH1aLbBG2D 16/Hd2ZSMqJcsnkXdw9oo0OboLwrKKl5xjZd/G5UHsAa8L7QO3v914S6PZS0mOW7 SEut6PMGy+DED9I4bYaQNhVk5m2uOGs/myAolGVRyqgZ+Is+JFzTTJnJSI0lIYo= =QNrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 20:00:52 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:00:52 -0700 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 12:54 PM, juan wrote: > > https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html > > "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" > > "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective > in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with > little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior > likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other > external factors or events." > > -------------- > > So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable > new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. The only thing that matters when you write an analysis is that it's correct. The question was obvious. His answer was clear. If it wasn't effective he would have said so, and that's what matters. All else redacted. We're discussing Schneier not 'one of his supremacist bots.' Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 20:44:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 20:44:43 -0700 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 08:16 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:00:52PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> On 07/15/2016 12:54 PM, juan wrote: >>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html >>> >>> "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" >>> >>> "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective >>> in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with >>> little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior >>> likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other >>> external factors or events." >>> >>> -------------- >>> >>> So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable >>> new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. >> The only thing that matters when you write an analysis is that it's >> correct. The question was obvious. His answer was clear. If it wasn't >> effective he would have said so, and that's what matters. > Actually, what matters to some is the nature/ character/ principles of a > man or woman. > > Juan's presented facts speak loudly to this, and are in fact, what > matters. > You seem to have a problem understanding honesty as a virtue yet you so go on on about "nature/ character/ principles". Wutsupwitsdat? A little hypocrite wot? As I said I have no computer industry friends and the crap you're spewing is illustrative of why that might be. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 17:16:18 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 21:16:18 -0300 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Atlantic_Council=3A_working_with_the_Russians_agai?= =?UTF-8?Q?nst_al=2DQaeda=2C_not_feasible=2C_due_to_long_term_costs_to_=E2=80=9CAme?= =?UTF-8?Q?rica=E2=80=99s_reputation=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: <20160715161649.GI16437@x220-a02> References: <20160715161649.GI16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Russian propaganda is always so interesting and useful... yawn... (-_-) zzzz... On Jul 15, 2016 1:28 PM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > Last month we were looking for a definition of psychopathic. Psychopaths are opportunist guys, able of really disgusting acts - supporting other psychopaths, like Donald Trump, for example - just for having benefits. Exactly what Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un did few months ago, do you remember? If not, search about. You should search about KGB methods of torture and about Russian LGBTQ rights too, please. Putin has much more in common with Trump and CIA than you would like to know. Oh, and when it is convenient, Putin really appreciate USA a lot!!! :D https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/18/vladimir-putin-donald-trump-striking-america-superpower Psychopaths never are very coherent, because they care only about their own interests, not about real values and honor. Please, consider using the "Put In panties" all the times when making PR for Putin. The Russian government will appreciate your cute act of tenderness and the propaganda will be more effective, really unforgettable for everybody. At least, we will laugh several times in a week and all this stupid Russian propaganda finally will be useful... All governments and politicians are really disgusting, ugh!!! 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1660 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 04:23:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 21:23:53 +1000 Subject: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: <57883FF8.6070104@riseup.net> References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> <57883FF8.6070104@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160715112353.GC16437@x220-a02> > On 07/14/2016 05:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > KGB Man Putin Trolls the CIA Like a Boss > > http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/kgb-man-putin-trolls-cia-boss-video/ri15618 On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 06:44:24PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > Every time I respond to juan :> Cheeky man :) You buys gring eternal enkertainement to the list :) From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 04:55:05 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 21:55:05 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160715115505.GF16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:27:24AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather a > big data point. Lots of people are willing to throw stones, nobody is > willing to face a potential perjury charge or countersuit. Maybe nobody > was actually harmed, beyond hurt feelings. > > Any male geek person with Our Mr. Applebaum's "celebrity" status who is > also (in my heteronormative radical queer opinion) good looking, is very > likely to avail himself of the sexual perquisites of social prestige. > If that is the case with Our Mr. Applebaum, it would inevitably result > in at least /some/ hurt feelings, even if he was a perfect fucking > knight in shining armor - which he probably ain't, because who is? > > Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity Politics > fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, and its fan base demographic > intersects with the fan base of everything that even looks "radical and > culturally cutting edge" to a fuzzy studies major, including the TOR > Project. "fuzzy studies" :D Great phrase. > In this social matrix, acts of simple careless idiocy, devoid > of malice and producing no real harm, could lead to all of the charges > we have seen. > > If you are of a paranoid bent, ask whether a political warfare operation > could produce the exact results seen in Our Mr. Applebaum's recent > history. Seeking out unsatisfied customers of Brand Jake who are > associated with evangelists for Feminazi fashion would be a snap: > Thanks to ubiquitous surveillance with automated social network mapping > and psychographic classification, finding people matching the desired > profile and history would only require a work order. Develop one agent > - witting or not - and the rest handles itself. (If, and please pardon > the expression, Our Mr. Applebaum has exposed himself in any way.) Much-o ACK-o. > Of course, this kind of thing is unheard of. Unless the name Mendax > means anything to you. I take it you mean "unheard of" in the literal, rather than colloquial, sense. > It is possible that Our Mr. Applebaum is a raging asshole who routinely > mistreats women in serious ways. But if so, the lack of any criminal > charges or civil action is surprising. > > It is possible that he is a victim of spontaneous combustion comparable > to the Mean Girls on the cheerleading squad getting some amusing > revenge, motivated by nothing more serious than some naive sap's > socially awkward behavior. That model fits the available evidence > better than the criminal model. > > It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was asked to > arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could quote a very > reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. The beauty part: By > itself this observation proves nothing, as it is difficult or impossible > to prove absent a credible inside source. That's the beauty part of the > institution of State Secrecy. Sadly, more ACKs. And the feminazi zealot types need only the merest of subtle nudges to launch off on righteous tirade journeys, "thinking" that they are "choosing" their pathway of vengeful action. Humans - not entirely unpredictable creatures. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 05:16:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 22:16:49 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160715121648.GG16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 06:09:37AM -0400, John Newman wrote: ... mucho snippo ... > > It is highly probable that IF a political warfare activity was asked to > > arrange this party for Our Mr. Applebaum, they could quote a very > > reasonable price and deliver the goods on time. The beauty part: By > > itself this observation proves nothing, as it is difficult or impossible > > to prove absent a credible inside source. That's the beauty part of the > > institution of State Secrecy. > > Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind > of massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him > down? He may talk about him a lot, but he's not Julian Assange. There is a phrase, and you can pretend I said this immortal quote but it would not be the case that I originated it: "One man can change the world." A man who stands on principle can be many things which can change a particular "world" (if not the world at large): - the canary in the mine whistleblower, e.g. "keeping the TOR bastards honest" and thus causing a lot of angst for those who wanted to use Tor for their state-sponsored human-subversive intentions - the sole individual who facilitates/ is the conduit for key transmissions of whistleblowers and their information, to a publisher who has infrastructure to publish bypassing national "intelligence networks" - e.g. to connect a Chelsie Manning to a Julian Assange. Remember - there was (perhaps still is, we don't know because it's so top secretive) a grand jury out to hang draw and quarter Julian Assange, an Australian - I think Australia has an extradition treaty with USA, we certainly host Pine Gap which is a global hub for the USA/ five eyes. HUGE resources have been put into this case against Julian - plane flights - enrollement of foreign so-called "sovereign" governments such as UK, Sweden, Australia - subversion of the Swedish justice department - unilaterally grounding the aeroplane of the president of Ecuador - and probably plenty more behind the scenes which we are not aware of publicly. THIS IS F@#$ING HUGE!!! The USA/CIA/FBI/NorthAmerican Government wants Julian Assange really, really badly! >From inside the Ecuadorian embassy, Julian --continues-- to publish things which embarrass the North American establishment oligarchs - Hitlery emails, banking scandals, war files and plenty more. Wikileaks (with all its problems which around these parts some are aware of) is a MASSIVE thorn in the side of the Empire of the North American and Atlantic Regime. Jacob Applebaum was a key figure facilitating the conduit of leakers to Assange, and, apparently, certainly quite possibly, keeping the bastards honest at Tor Inc, which was supposed to be an American Military and CIA operation - and here was this pipsqueak Jacob taking the "published principles of an intention (however weakly implemented) toward aiding public anonymity of transmission of information", literally! Jacob Applebaum took that fucking intention fucking literally! The fucking hide of him!!! How DARE anyone take principled intentions literally, ESPECIALLY when the neoc9nt American establishment is paying for it. FFS, Wake UP! > Maybe he was just a douche bag with a few people too many and they > threw up some exaggerated reports to get him chucked. Well that certainly demonstrates the principled actions of a principled North American Incorporation spreading the principles of Democracy, Transparency, Liberty of information, and the Rule of Law, now doesn't it? > In any event, he doesn't seem to be fighting back particularly hard. Read his words. Read his interviews. He was being actively stalked and monitored by The Powers That Be, and he became aware of this, realised he needed to do more of the op-sec he was teaching whistleblowers how to do, his op sec was far above what most of us ever approach. Jacob was not able to live a "normal" life. Perhaps he was grateful for the opportunity to bow out? IDK, just postulating of course, but hell, if he really was the only man truly standing in the gaggle of self interested, intensely feminazi and pro CIA agents employees of Tor Inc, for that many years, I imagine he'd "fucking had enough". Perhaps few men could stand as long as he did in his situation... most are armchair anarchists, armchair Mannings, armchair Assanges, waving our arms at "What a fucking bad job they're doing, I could do it SO much better". From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 05:27:15 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 22:27:15 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160715122715.GH16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:33:26PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 02:27:24AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > > The absence of any legal proceedings, criminal or civil, seems rather a > > big data point. Lots of people are willing to throw stones, nobody is > > willing to face a potential perjury charge or countersuit. Maybe nobody > > was actually harmed, beyond hurt feelings. > > > > I don't know what the truth is. Just to play devil's advocate, lack of > proceedings might mean out of court deal (I don't believe this is the > case). > > > Any male geek person with Our Mr. Applebaum's "celebrity" status who is > > also (in my heteronormative radical queer opinion) good looking, is very > > likely to avail himself of the sexual perquisites of social prestige. > > Well, feds/nsa are known to use ladies to seduce people and then blackmail > them (probably this is since ancient times). > > Isn't this very close to Assange's charges in Sweden? They look quite > made up to me. > > Are most activists rapists? This appears highly unlikely to me. No, only the most successful ones. > According to The Guardian, Applebaum was accused of "emotional abuse". > > WTF is "emotional abuse"? Calling a bitch "bitch"? @juan will get > death sentence for "emotional abuse" just from this list, I suspect. Probably not a death sentence (although I think that's what they want for Assange), more likely nothing, unless he becomes successful at actually changing some part of the empire, then he'd become a rapist with public "witnesses" telling their story. Evidently Sweden's upper eschelongs/ oligarchs are held by North America regime 'by the balls' - look at the public statements since the "events", the statements of the two lasses who were supposedly raped by Assange. The message is more important to the empire than the punishment - Julian is holed up until at least 2020 from what we can tell, Manning doing life in prison, Snowden exiled for god knows how long and because he cut a deal with the devil (the Guardian) rather than go through Jake Applebaum to Assange and wikileaks, his exile seems to be for little to nothing in the way of actual facts. Snowden: have you learnt your lesson on this? Or are you compromised and therefore unable to admit you made a huge mistake on this one? Or are those who helped you flee North America wanting to save their asses, given their choice to help you as far as they considered that they could get away with helping you (given your personal choices) and so this is why your "leaks" are all filtered through the Western MSM and basically the facts themselves/ anything of real substance is now buried for decades? Snowden, do you deny there is a major problem in the particular process you chose/ choices you made, in this regard? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 15 18:32:42 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 22:32:42 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57896B0B.3090808@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578930c0.8805370a.74af7.9ad9@mx.google.com> <57896B0B.3090808@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <57898e15.87a2370a.e8c37.f27f@mx.google.com> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 19:00:27 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > >> Pardon my macroaggression, but there is a very current Identity > >> Politics fad for cutting all Male Pigs down to size, > > > > Yeah, true, and irrelevant. > > Looking at the motives and means of people who have opportunities is > usually very relevant in determining who did what and why. > Of course, that might be inconvenient for anyone who comes in with a > preconceived notion that explains it all. It's OK to analyze motives and means, I don't dispute that. But means exist to achieve some end, which supposedly is more important than the means. In the case of appelbaum he got metaphorically lynched by politically correct feminists, but what really matters is that a) he got lynched b) by his own employeers c) who are members of the 'good' 'pro-privacy' 'community'. > > > The issue is, pay attention, How is it possible for the amazing, > > transparent, and 'freedom fighting' tor project to use all those > > dirty tricks against one of their most amazing transparent and > > freedom fighting members? > > > > What I see here is an assumption that the TOR Project itself, or some > element thereof, would be the actor behind any effort to kick Our Mr. > Applebaum out of the project I think we would agree that appelbaum was indeed kicked out, no? We should further agree that the kicking was formally done by the tor project's 'authorties'? So we can safely assume that either those 'authorities' acted on their own accord, or else got their marching orders from sombebody else? And from my point of view, that doesn't make much of a differece anyway. Whether they 'betrayed' appelbaum because they were 'following orders', or not, doesn't change what they did. > and "activist" communities in general, > via a reputation attack. I would not rule that out, but I would > include the whole alphabet soup of TLAs on the list of potential > suspects. I don't object to that, but I don't think it matters too much who the 'intellectual author' is. Whether it's some feminist bitches who now run at least part of the show, or it's syverson and the general baxter*, the tor project is still a bad joke. * youtube.com/watch?v=L6O6sM2Shok > The TOR Drama includes multilateral conflict of interest between the > State Department (funding TOR as a vector for transmitting State > propaganda to foreign audiences), CIA (a love/hate relationship with > TOR; helps some missions, hinders others), the FBI (we hates all nasty > TORses, hates them we does), and God knows who else. It's obvious that tor helps the state more than it hinders it. Otherwise the state would have never created and tolerated something like it. > > If the TOR Project ever manages to well and truly piss the State > Department off that would mean Big Trouble: Including maybe a huge > shake-up like we are seeing now? Just closing it down by pulling the > funding would probably not be an option, Nobody really wants to close it down. The factional fights inside the state are just for show. > > "psyop against appelbaum.........$300,000*.........CIA" > > > > "*paid through syverson's cayman offshore account" > > Now yer just being silly. A project like taking Applebaum down could > be paid for out of petty cash and/or by raiding the office coffee > fund. True that =P > > :o) > From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 15 22:47:00 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 23:47:00 -0600 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <5789CA54.1000703@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 11:19 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:44:43PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> On 07/15/2016 08:16 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:00:52PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >>>> On 07/15/2016 12:54 PM, juan wrote: >>>>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html >>>>> >>>>> "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" >>>>> >>>>> "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective >>>>> in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with >>>>> little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior >>>>> likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other >>>>> external factors or events." >>>>> >>>>> -------------- >>>>> >>>>> So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable >>>>> new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. >>>> The only thing that matters when you write an analysis is that it's >>>> correct. The question was obvious. His answer was clear. If it wasn't >>>> effective he would have said so, and that's what matters. >>> Actually, what matters to some is the nature/ character/ principles of a >>> man or woman. >>> >>> Juan's presented facts speak loudly to this, and are in fact, what >>> matters. >> >> You seem to have a problem understanding honesty as a virtue > > Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. > > I call this something other than honesty. Taste? Bruce doesn't hide the fact that he moderates comments on his blog. If he claimed that he doesn't delete posts, but in fact does, that would be dishonest. It's his blog, so it's his choice. > Did you unintentionally misunderstand me? > > >> yet you so >> go on on about "nature/ character/ principles". Wutsupwitsdat? A little >> hypocrite wot? As I said I have no computer industry friends and the >> crap you're spewing is illustrative of why that might be. > From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 09:16:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 02:16:49 +1000 Subject: Atlantic Council: working with =?utf-8?Q?t?= =?utf-8?Q?he_Russians_against_al-Qaeda=2C_not_feasible=2C_due_to_long_ter?= =?utf-8?B?bSBjb3N0cyB0byDigJxBbWVyaWNh4oCZcyByZXB1dGF0aW9u4oCd?= Message-ID: <20160715161649.GI16437@x220-a02> Last month we were looking for a definition of psychopathic. This hints at a definition. https://www.rt.com/op-edge/351265-washingtons-syria-policy-kerry-moscow/ "With Washington’s Syria policy in disarray, Kerry goes to Moscow ... again" From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 01:58:18 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 04:58:18 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: Seems scrubbage exists of forward search references to one's contribution, adding to the pile on, diminishment, and reframing through that... https://blog.torproject.org/blog/what-tor-supporter-looks-%E2%80%93-jacob-appelbaum https://web.archive.org/web/20160304052552/https://blog.torproject.org/blog/what-tor-supporter-looks-%E2%80%93-jacob-appelbaum https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/ioerror https://web.archive.org/web/20160310120411/https://blog.torproject.org/category/tags/ioerror https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ioerror https://web.archive.org/web/20160610002952/https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ioerror https://blog.torproject.org/blog/7 https://people.torproject.org/~ioerror/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150315135427/https://people.torproject.org/~ioerror/ Censorship and removal of truth [even if only of historical record] is rather shameful. And blog post on the Board issue seems to have very few comments approved compared to average comment numbers in other posts, for a seemingly big topic (total replacement) where are all the comments? And if anyone has this deleted video, please repost this footage of censored foreign lands to a censorship free location: https://vimeo.com/172360421 http://archive.is/XvBxg http://archive.is/mMVQH https://www.reddit.com/user/ioerror https://web.archive.org/web/20150324124253/https://people.torproject.org/~ioerror/index.jpg From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 03:14:07 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 06:14:07 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 7/15/16, juan wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about >> people and their personalities for the feds. > > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) It's been said that within every conspiracy theory lies an element of truth ;-) From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 06:01:14 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 07:01:14 -0600 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160716104926.GT16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160716104926.GT16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578A301A.8060805@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 04:49 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:28:49AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite >> noisy. >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ >> >>> UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption >> >> Very sound, nice and democratic... > > So we have various countries banning end to end encryption - Russia, > possibly China?, now the UK ... what is stopping America from doing so? > > The Zimmerman (PGP) case? That just protects writing about it, including code. Not using it. > The CIA's need/use/funding for Tor, and their need for many "average > Joes" to use it also, for it to work? Maybe so. That would be funny :) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 04:50:53 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 07:50:53 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: On 7/15/16, John Newman wrote: > Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of > massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? On both... Are you fucking kidding me? Even before Snowden censored himself and Assange got locked down... He's one of the outspoken few that was still out traveling around the world bringing knowledge of Tor / privacy / human rights / surveillance etc the whole scope... with zero fear and a solid compelling presentation based on personal conviction and experience. Others at Tor mostly stayed to the conference rooms, he was transcending personal rooms even before joining Tor... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo Here he is talking on the subject with a roomful of Muslims in Quwait... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcpVBqy9Dc And you want to know who wants to take him down, and how? Get real. Get fucking real. Don't expect the new Tor board to support similar work in the future even if someone doing it fell into their lap. It's too hot topic, and they'll be too busy playing politik and law with their US Government now anyway. Historical narratives indeed... https://youtube.com/watch?v=L6O6sM2Shok&t=293 From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 08:09:17 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:09:17 -0700 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> On 07/15/2016 10:19 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. Fact. Juan is a TROLL who couldn't possibly have anything rational to add to anything Schnier posts. First ad hom and he's gone most anywhere anytime anyway. Tough darts. No one's got the time for spew. I have ongoing problems with the local indymedia redacting my comments because they don't adhere to their unfathomable ideology that I can't quite identify, so I simply don't bother posting there. What was it someone said about freedom of the press is OWNING the press? If Juan has something to say that Bruce Schnier doesn't want to hear or allow in his comments he should start a blog. Write an open letter and use all those SEO tricks to get his post noticed by the same people who read Schnier. The fallacious assumption you're making here is that Schnier owes him a soapbox to respond, IF what Juan does can be considered 'responding'. No one owes anyone shit. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 05:17:16 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:17:16 -0400 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160716115540.GU16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160716115540.GU16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: >> Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? The US shipped out rocks leaving the Jupiters still in their bunkers under the Turkish sand dunes ;) From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 08:35:20 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:35:20 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578A5438.4060806@riseup.net> I agree with everything said here. Jacob Appelbaum wears counterculture on his sleeve. ... Some thing I remember most developers did WAY back when personal computing first got off the ground. Wozniak, Jobs and the rest would get shit-faced out at the Albatross on Portola while Moby Grape played. The Chateu up on the summit and Zayante Club were basically weekend retreats for coders to get away, smoke a bunch of Killer Local Bud, and decompress before going back to their breadboards and eye-destroying green-black dot-matrix montiors. The cops used to pick up bleary-eyed tie-dye shirt wearing local coders wandering the streets of Santa Cruz early in the morning thinking they were 'woods hippies' to be harassed. Now it's about money power and ego. Those rubes compromise easily. They 'drop trou', as the brits say. But the ones who are in 'for the love of it' .... You have to dig dirt. Rr On 07/16/2016 04:50 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/15/16, John Newman wrote: >> Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of >> massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? > On both... Are you fucking kidding me? > > Even before Snowden censored himself and Assange got locked down... > He's one of the outspoken few that was still out traveling around the world > bringing knowledge of Tor / privacy / human rights / surveillance etc the > whole scope... with zero fear and a solid compelling presentation based > on personal conviction and experience. Others at Tor mostly stayed > to the conference rooms, he was transcending personal rooms even > before joining Tor... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo > > Here he is talking on the subject with a roomful of Muslims in Quwait... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcpVBqy9Dc > > And you want to know who wants to take him down, and how? > Get real. Get fucking real. > > > Don't expect the new Tor board to support similar work > in the future even if someone doing it fell into their lap. > It's too hot topic, and they'll be too busy playing politik > and law with their US Government now anyway. > > Historical narratives indeed... > https://youtube.com/watch?v=L6O6sM2Shok&t=293 > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 08:38:07 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:38:07 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578A54DF.1080901@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 03:14 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/15/16, juan wrote: >> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 >> Rayzer wrote: >> >>> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about >>> people and their personalities for the feds. >> Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > lies an element of truth ;-) > That's a statement based on my own empirical observation and internalized database about how social network disruptors operate. So... Conspiracy theory, or hypothesis? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 08:41:50 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:41:50 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578A55BE.1030905@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 04:32 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:14:07AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: >> On 7/15/16, juan wrote: >>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 >>> Rayzer wrote: >>> >>>> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about >>>> people and their personalities for the feds. >>> Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) >> It's been said that within every conspiracy theory >> lies an element of truth ;-) > Agreed. > Here is another conspiracy theory: both rayzer and juan are puppet > accounts of a single actor, other than god [1]. That's why I sign my posts. Further, my handle appears all over the intertubz at various venues for at least a decade now and covers topics that Juan has no expertise whatsoever in, nor interest. Rr > > [1] Dear juan, stay assured Jesus loves you. In case you don't get it, > it doesn't matter if you believe that gravity works or not. Not sure if > Stallman likes scumbags like you. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 08:48:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:48:38 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578A5756.3090402@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 04:40 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Consider searching the web for: > news Turkey coup d'etat > > Someone old told me coup d'etat's are common for Turkey, the search > terms are: > > history Turkey coup d'etat > > Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? > http://nationalinterest.org/feature/turkey-secretly-working-nuclear-weapons-13898 NOW, here's a 'conspiracy' theory... A number of Turkish soldiers are saying they thought the coup was a drill... Of course You'd say that too if a firing squad or beheading was the other option. https://twitter.com/AP/status/754295122104348672 ON THE OTHER HAND Erdogan could be seen to be setting up a fake coup to use as excuse to kill of dissenting elements in the Turkish Military who say he's trying to create an islamist state and use the puny, half-assed, undermined-from-the-git coup attempt by low-level officers (patsies to you) to cement his power, as dictator, who allows the supplying of ‪‎ISIS‬, and whose son owns the trucks that transport, the refineries that process, the ships that carry to market, oil stolen from Iraq and elsewhere, again, by ISIS. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 17:50:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 10:50:42 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> References: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160716005042.GL16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 11:57:04AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/15/2016 11:36 AM, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:33:26 +0300 > > Georgi Guninski wrote: > >> WTF is "emotional abuse"? Calling a bitch "bitch"? @juan will get > >> death sentence for "emotional abuse" just from this list, I suspect. > > Exactly right =) > It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about people > and their personalities for the feds. > As can be seen with the FBI's ongoing sting ops of Muslims, they tend to > tap people who are mentally defective to assist them. Ahhh, so Juan calling the employees of Tor Inc "kinks", wait, ah "runts", no no, "bunts" - what was it again? Anyway, so this is actually the FBI in North America, using Juan in South America, to "sting" Muslims. In Nice, France perhaps? That's quite theory... From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 18:10:59 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:10:59 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <57896B0B.3090808@pilobilus.net> References: <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578930c0.8805370a.74af7.9ad9@mx.google.com> <57896B0B.3090808@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160716011059.GM16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 07:00:27PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > If the TOR Project ever manages to well and truly piss the State > Department off that would mean Big Trouble: Including maybe a huge > shake-up like we are seeing now? Just closing it down by pulling the > funding would probably not be an option, as that would massively > complicate lots of political warfare projects in progress against > "regimes" targeted for disposal. The incoming President wouldn't like > that, and we know what happens to people who do things she doesn't like. "We came, we saw, he died" - with a cackle/ chuckle over the death of Qaddafi. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 18:14:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:14:50 +1000 Subject: An important text for understanding the project of the Empire of Chaos Message-ID: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> “Our real enemy is our greatest ally. The ultimate proof” [by Maurizio Blondet] ~ An important short text to understand the project of the Empire of Chaos https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/enemy-ally-blondet/ Here's a small version of linked video (1GiB otherwise): youtube-dl -f 249+242 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeLu_yyz3tc From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 16 01:28:49 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:28:49 +0300 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption Message-ID: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite noisy. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption Very sound, nice and democratic... From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jul 16 08:45:40 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:45:40 -0400 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> Message-ID: The purpose of cpunks is to host aggressive messages others with thin skins, reputations, profits, ideologies and egos to protect delete. Which may explain why deleters appear absent here (many are ghosts) but do lurk or have lurkers and protection agents watching for slightest challenge, keeping lists for covert anonymized retribution -- for worst offenses, extermination -- following the lead of nations and religions. Moderated fora, Wikipedia the prime example, Tor a slight one, cannot abide misbehavior or funding will be squeezed or shut down. Govs, NGOs. coms, are moderated to assure survival of banality as cover for brutality. Celebrity is moderation, and might be better called tampering. At 11:09 AM 7/16/2016, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="jI2MW7vW1fHw2QRI2kFPwN2k8GBwdAMjH" >From: Rayzer >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Message-ID: <578A4E1D.9070001 at riseup.net> >Subject: Re: schneier's concentration camp >References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9 at mx.google.com> > <5789A364.9060509 at riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437 at x220-a02> > <5789ADAB.5030001 at riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437 at x220-a02> >In-Reply-To: <20160716051958.GP16437 at x220-a02> > > > >On 07/15/2016 10:19 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. > > >Fact. Juan is a TROLL who couldn't possibly have anything rational to >add to anything Schnier posts. > >First ad hom and he's gone most anywhere anytime anyway. > >Tough darts. No one's got the time for spew. > >I have ongoing problems with the local indymedia redacting my comments >because they don't adhere to their unfathomable ideology that I can't >quite identify, so I simply don't bother posting there. > >What was it someone said about freedom of the press is OWNING the press? > >If Juan has something to say that Bruce Schnier doesn't want to hear or >allow in his comments he should start a blog. Write an open letter and >use all those SEO tricks to get his post noticed by the same people who >read Schnier. > >The fallacious assumption you're making here is that Schnier owes him a >soapbox to respond, IF what Juan does can be considered 'responding'. No >one owes anyone shit. > >Rr > > From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 02:09:59 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:09:59 +0300 Subject: An important text for understanding the project of the Empire of Chaos In-Reply-To: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-07-16 4:14 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > “Our real enemy is our greatest ally. The ultimate proof” [by Maurizio > Blondet] ~ An important short text to understand the project of the > Empire of Chaos > https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/enemy-ally-blondet/ > > Here's a small version of linked video (1GiB otherwise): > youtube-dl -f 249+242 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeLu_yyz3tc > 20 years ago, that would be "unprecedented" and "impossible" to hear in such a forum. These things have been said in the dark rooms of the CIA... and even there - usually below one's breath. Now, look at those scums in suits and with verbal diarrhea. Those bastards have lost even their most basic FEAR & LOGIC. They declare about all their evil plans even before they accomplish them (and admit all the past atrocities). They are SO SURE in their fucken victory. Oh yeah. Well, i can understand their unbelievable self confidence. *Reading/hearing* all the brainwashed sheeple EVEN on this "punk" list (no point talking about the other mainstream "lists"), and *SEEING* no serious re-action to any CRUELTY they do, -> that would lead every fucker like friedman/ hitler & ameriCunts/anglozionists to this conclusion - *"WE CAN (AND WE WILL) DO EVERYTHING WE WANT. THIS EARTH IS FULL OF DEATH WALKING ZOMBIES/ HOLLOW BODIES WITH NO HEARTS AND MINDS. WE WILL ENSLAVE EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. THIS TIME - TOTALLY"* ('cause up until now, it's was only 70%, but this ain't enough for us anymore!) _______ And.... the billions of moron people see that, hear that and some even feel it on their own skin... AND THEN WHAT? ​​ *They don't give a fuck. Read my lips: THEY_DON'T_GIVE_A_FUCK!Self delusion, cowardliness and golden cages. Nothing more.* oh, and don't forget the: "this is all russian/chinese/... propaganda. no, this can't be truth" oh, and don't forget the: "i wanna sleep, eat and fuck. and also, give me that newiiii gadget from apple store" oh, and don't forget the: "leave me alone with this heaaaavy conversations. 'am too fucken "busy", too apathetic" oh, and don't forget the beloved family fairy tale: "i loooove my children. I have a reSSponsibility. i'll be a piece of silent shit "for them". i'll let hitler/friedman/... explode this world "for them". just leave me alone!" Oh, You know what? *FUCK YOU, SHEEPLE! FUCK YOU MORONS! FUCK YOU COWARDS! FUCK YOU!GO TO HELL! * __ *the problem is, WE ARE in the same boat. Me, Zenaan and... YOU, BILLIONS OF FUCKEN SHEEPLE! -> So, we are gonna sink/go to hell WITH YOU, bastards.!* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3827 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 08:28:49 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 12:28:49 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: The removal of content is happening since last month, my dear @grarpamp. Lots of strange things are happening and there is evident censorship in some places when you mention Jake's name. This kind of thing makes me feel really upset and I am considering if was correct to avoid cruel gossip, because it is disgusting, vile. "JA group" used this kind of despicable resource, but they are not a good and healthy reference for normal people, with a little bit of ethics. "Decent people", using Quinn's favorite expression. "Sane people", in my own code of ethics. I never asked Jake about this fact, because it would sound disgusting and non sense for him and he already has lots of more relevant worries. I used this embarrassing information for my personal conviction only. We can't use this information in a trial, but I am sure he had no sexual contact or approach with one of the alleged victims because he has a very sensitive nose. Jake is very clean and really cares a lot about personal hygiene. Everybody knows how much he cares about his apparence and his smell always is good, even after a longer talk. A comfortable smell that remembers me "cleanliness", daily baths and use of cleaning products, like soap, shampoo, etc. It is an important detail for a Brazilian person. We do love water and baths. Brazilians usually are considered "bath addicteds" and "maniacs for cleanliness, hygiene products and perfums" in whole world. The girl is knowed in some activist circles for _not_ having an accurate hygiene and for several disgusting intimate smells. One of her ex-lovers, who I've knowed in person, confirmed me it some weeks ago and I really felt bad for her. I don't know her in person and I don't know if she has a disease or just unsanitary, unhygienic habits, but being associated with "sour cream", "rotten cheese" and other bizarre odors is very humilliating. He never had courage to lick any part of her body and left her after two disastrous sexual meetings. Jake never would touch a stinky person in an intimate way. He is too clean for it and he could have sex with a better person very, very easily. Sorry, I can't believe it. He probably would reject her sexual advances, exactly like her ex-lover did. She is a revengeful person and, well, a rejected woman is the Hell in a human form. She said his ex-lover is gay and he doesn't like sex to some people. He is not gay and likes sex a lot, but only with clean women. Not her case! :P It was childish and cruel, but I confess when I was angry, I tried to play with two horrible versions of "Smelly Cat" (one of Phoebe' songs, Friends sitcom), provisionally called "Smelly Pussy" and "Smelly Little Cat" just for making Jake laugh a bit. It was a bad idea and I left it at all. Jake deserves good music and I sing like a banshee dying, uh! :(( (I don't know if it is really used, but they teach a pussy is a "little cat" for foreign people and I just learned it can be a bad word when I tried to explain how much I love puppies and kittens to my ex-boyfriend. I said "I love pussies" and he laughed for a long time before explaining my mistake... d'oh! :P) Tender kisses. Wish you all a lovely day! :* Cecilia, at hospital, in a horrible mood... I've spent my whole week visiting hospitals and strongly wished to die all the times after reading dramatic Russian propaganda. Too much drama and noise because of another corrupt politician, who doesn't support LGBTQ rights and censors philosophers, aff... :((( PS for @Georgi: - Stallman certainly likes scumbags, because is a complete scumbag in some moments. But I swear he is very funny and cute when in the mood! <3 I don't know if Jesus loves @Juan, but later I will share a cute comic book named "Religion - Ruining Everything Since 4004 B.C.". A lovely friend sent me and I read it yesterday, at hospital, while complaining about God's dark humor and bad jokes. It was published under a Creative Commons license and I need to thank the author for being so generous and fun. He made me smile while my temperamental body was rejecting medicines, so his book is good, hihi... ;) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4522 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 20:16:08 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 13:16:08 +1000 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:00:52PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/15/2016 12:54 PM, juan wrote: > > https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html > > > > "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" > > > > "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective > > in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with > > little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior > > likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other > > external factors or events." > > > > -------------- > > > > So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable > > new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. > > The only thing that matters when you write an analysis is that it's > correct. The question was obvious. His answer was clear. If it wasn't > effective he would have said so, and that's what matters. Actually, what matters to some is the nature/ character/ principles of a man or woman. Juan's presented facts speak loudly to this, and are in fact, what matters. > All else redacted. We're discussing Schneier not 'one of his supremacist > bots.' > > > Rr > From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 16 04:32:44 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:32:44 +0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:14:07AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/15/16, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > >> people and their personalities for the feds. > > > > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > > It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > lies an element of truth ;-) Agreed. Here is another conspiracy theory: both rayzer and juan are puppet accounts of a single actor, other than god [1]. [1] Dear juan, stay assured Jesus loves you. In case you don't get it, it doesn't matter if you believe that gravity works or not. Not sure if Stallman likes scumbags like you. From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 16 04:40:46 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:40:46 +0300 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey Message-ID: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Consider searching the web for: news Turkey coup d'etat Someone old told me coup d'etat's are common for Turkey, the search terms are: history Turkey coup d'etat Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 15 22:19:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 15:19:58 +1000 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:44:43PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/15/2016 08:16 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 08:00:52PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> On 07/15/2016 12:54 PM, juan wrote: > >>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html > >>> > >>> "Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" > >>> > >>> "The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective > >>> in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with > >>> little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior > >>> likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other > >>> external factors or events." > >>> > >>> -------------- > >>> > >>> So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable > >>> new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. > >> The only thing that matters when you write an analysis is that it's > >> correct. The question was obvious. His answer was clear. If it wasn't > >> effective he would have said so, and that's what matters. > > Actually, what matters to some is the nature/ character/ principles of a > > man or woman. > > > > Juan's presented facts speak loudly to this, and are in fact, what > > matters. > > You seem to have a problem understanding honesty as a virtue Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. I call this something other than honesty. Did you unintentionally misunderstand me? > yet you so > go on on about "nature/ character/ principles". Wutsupwitsdat? A little > hypocrite wot? As I said I have no computer industry friends and the > crap you're spewing is illustrative of why that might be. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:18:51 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 16:18:51 -0300 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <5789CA54.1000703@riseup.net> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> <5789CA54.1000703@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578a87ef.c437ed0a.e8d64.74ad@mx.google.com> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 23:47:00 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > Bruce doesn't hide the fact that he moderates comments on his blog. Bruce? What, is the shitbag a family member of yours or something? > Bruce doesn't hide the fact that he moderates comments on his blog. He doesn't? So where's the notice saying that he is a censor who will delete comments he doesn't like? And even if there was such notice, that wouldn't change the fact that he's an intellectual fraud. Exactly like you mirimir. Yep, I've had enough of you =) You've finally proven you are a piece of shit - not to be trusted, at all. > > If he claimed that he doesn't delete posts, but in fact does, that > would be dishonest. > > It's his blog, so it's his choice. > > > Did you unintentionally misunderstand me? > > > > > >> yet you so > >> go on on about "nature/ character/ principles". Wutsupwitsdat? A > >> little hypocrite wot? As I said I have no computer industry > >> friends and the crap you're spewing is illustrative of why that > >> might be. > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:24:36 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 16:24:36 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 06:14:07 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 7/15/16, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > >> people and their personalities for the feds. > > > > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > > It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > lies an element of truth ;-) So rayzer, I mean, grarpamp, what's the element of truth here? =) Since you are honest and transparent, you will tell us, right? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:29:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 16:29:04 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578a8a54.4365370a.758d3.f32d@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:32:44 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:14:07AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > On 7/15/16, juan wrote: > > > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 > > > Rayzer wrote: > > > > > >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > > >> people and their personalities for the feds. > > > > > > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > > > > It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > > lies an element of truth ;-) > > Agreed. > > Here is another conspiracy theory: both rayzer and juan are puppet > accounts of a single actor, other than god [1]. > > [1] Dear juan, stay assured Jesus loves you. In case you don't get it, > it doesn't matter if you believe that gravity works or not. Not sure > if Stallman likes scumbags like you. Are you drunk Georgi? I'm sure that a scumbag like stallman doesn't like me. Are you one of his puppets? Admitedly, I can hardly make head or tail of your message, except that you sound rather confused. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:32:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 16:32:27 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 07:50:53 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 7/15/16, John Newman wrote: > > Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any > > kind of massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from > > taking him down? > > On both... Are you fucking kidding me? The question is quite reasonable, and you don't have a reasonable answer. Appelbaum is pretty much a secondary character at best. > > Even before Snowden censored himself and Assange got locked down... > He's one of the outspoken few that was still out traveling around the > world bringing knowledge of Tor Well, of course. He's a despicable 'ex' pentagon employee. Unlike you grarpamp who probably are not 'ex'. > / privacy / human rights / > surveillance etc the whole scope... with zero fear and a solid > compelling presentation based on personal conviction and experience. > Others at Tor mostly stayed to the conference rooms, he was > transcending personal rooms even before joining Tor... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo > > Here he is talking on the subject with a roomful of Muslims in > Quwait... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcpVBqy9Dc > > And you want to know who wants to take him down, and how? > Get real. Get fucking real. You get fucking real. Appelbaum is a self-serving fraud. > > > Don't expect the new Tor board to support similar work > in the future even if someone doing it fell into their lap. > It's too hot topic, and they'll be too busy playing politik > and law with their US Government now anyway. > > Historical narratives indeed... > https://youtube.com/watch?v=L6O6sM2Shok&t=293 From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 12:35:06 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 16:35:06 -0300 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578a8bbd.55aa370a.2c81a.64ea@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:09:17 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/15/2016 10:19 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. > > > Fact. Juan is a TROLL who couldn't possibly have anything rational to > add to anything Schnier posts. schneider is a jewish neocon like you rayzer =) OOPS. Your 'lefty' 'progressive' 'humanitarian' mask fell off yet again =) > > First ad hom and he's gone most anywhere anytime anyway. > > Tough darts. No one's got the time for spew. > > I have ongoing problems with the local indymedia redacting my comments > because they don't adhere to their unfathomable ideology that I can't > quite identify, so I simply don't bother posting there. > > What was it someone said about freedom of the press is OWNING the > press? > > If Juan has something to say that Bruce Schnier doesn't want to hear > or allow in his comments he should start a blog. Write an open letter > and use all those SEO tricks to get his post noticed by the same > people who read Schnier. > > The fallacious assumption you're making here is that Schnier owes him > a soapbox to respond, IF what Juan does can be considered > 'responding'. No one owes anyone shit. > > Rr > From peter at m-o-o-t.org Sat Jul 16 10:02:57 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 18:02:57 +0100 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> On 16/07/16 09:28, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > noisy. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > >> UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > > Very sound, nice and democratic... Things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have approximately zero legal significance. To a very close approximation. Practically speaking, indistinguishable from zero. What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. Which in this case is pretty bad, but not a power to ban end-to-end encryption. In fact, it doesn't affect most in-use forms of end-to-end encryption at all. And it doesn't say anything at all about applying your own encryption. Details below, if interested. -- Peter Fairbrother The ostensible target may be internet/phone service providers, to force backdoors in mobile links and VPNs - but the actual target is "relevant operators". It includes a whole lot of other things apart from internet and phone providers (and Apple and Facebook). "Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a system." That would include many commercial sites who use SSL/TLS. If you put a "contact me" link on your web pages, you are a "relevant operator". Gimme your SSL keys! That's what the Bill actually says, if you read it carefully. Like RIPA, it is opaque beyond the point of obscurity, and it takes a lot of reading. Good points? Only encryption which has been applied by a "relevant operator" is affected - at least until the Home Secretary makes regulations otherwise (which under the Bill she can do). Bad points? It doesn't do anything at all against the clued-up terrorist or criminal. It decreases security for legitimate actors and businesses. BTW, things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have approximately zero legal significance. What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 15:25:52 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 18:25:52 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 7/16/16, juan wrote: >> >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about >> >> people and their personalities for the feds. >> > >> > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) >> >> It's been said that within every conspiracy theory >> lies an element of truth ;-) > > So rayzer, I mean, grarpamp, what's the element of truth here? We spent $1k and produced this video just to countertroll you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4EEa0HAqzQ From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 15:44:30 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 19:44:30 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578ab825.0762370a.59ac.04b6@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 18:25:52 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 7/16/16, juan wrote: > >> >> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > >> >> people and their personalities for the feds. > >> > > >> > Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > >> > >> It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > >> lies an element of truth ;-) > > > > So rayzer, I mean, grarpamp, what's the element of truth > > here? > > We spent $1k and produced this video just to countertroll you? So grarpamp you couldn't name the 'element of truth' in your pal's conspiracy theory. You fail yet again. And yes, from the point of view of torbots like you and rayzer I am a 'troll'. But that says a lot more about you than me... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4EEa0HAqzQ ah yes, they have some good stuff - too bad they are tor whores too (well, they also worked for russia today lol) From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 03:45:53 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 20:45:53 +1000 Subject: An important text for understanding the project of the Empire of Chaos In-Reply-To: References: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160716104553.GS16437@x220-a02> > And.... the billions of moron people see that, hear that and some even feel > it on their own skin... AND THEN WHAT? ... I hear you Alex - it is hard to not react violently when evil presents itself so blatantly, so cold heartedly. It makes for a heavy heart, great sadness, disillusionment, infuriation, exasperation and great anger towards the Empire, the North American Regime of Chaos. The best we can do is to consider carefully possible pathways of action, those pathways which may be most effective, either as individual action, or most effective in inspiring other individuals to join us in a pathway of action together, and then to channel all that anger and fury into ... action. Let's hope the empire does not cause World War 3 during its death throws, before it finally dies. I am with you, and also with a heavy heart, Zen From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 03:49:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 20:49:26 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160716104926.GT16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:28:49AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > noisy. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > > > UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > > Very sound, nice and democratic... So we have various countries banning end to end encryption - Russia, possibly China?, now the UK ... what is stopping America from doing so? The Zimmerman (PGP) case? The CIA's need/use/funding for Tor, and their need for many "average Joes" to use it also, for it to work? From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 17:56:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 20:56:59 -0400 Subject: Cryptome Edit War Breaks Out Message-ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cryptome&action=history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/69.86.243.212 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/John_Young_18428 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/FreeMeWikipedia 1 2 11 Spy services feed info to whistleblowers to keep tabs on site visitors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMRUiB_8tTc 12 9 10 WikiLeaks Fog of Infowar and its Ties to The Elite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lTBJAkNyBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzHRgJLgSm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7ve_ez3LL0 7 26 10 Wikileaks War Logs Show Global Intelligence Facade Of 'War On Terror' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70pmhZHy6eQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3XE448dfXA 2 26 10 The Internet is a Police State Surveillance Grid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU5lDiZRBnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zs-49UfJbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0OlaR_JiK8 12 7 09 Yahoo Spying on You for Big Brother https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ELaF930hyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWx3U4r-2s4 From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 18:26:52 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:26:52 -0400 Subject: Cryptome Edit War Breaks Out In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cryptome From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 21:29:39 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:29:39 -0700 Subject: [from offlist] Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A5756.3090402@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578B09B3.9020403@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 11:58 AM, Marina Brown wrote: > On 07/16/2016 11:48 AM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> On 07/16/2016 04:40 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: >>> Consider searching the web for: >>> news Turkey coup d'etat >>> >>> Someone old told me coup d'etat's are common for Turkey, the search >>> terms are: >>> >>> history Turkey coup d'etat >>> >>> Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? >>> >> http://nationalinterest.org/feature/turkey-secretly-working-nuclear-weapons-13898 >> >> >> NOW, here's a 'conspiracy' theory... >> >> A number of Turkish soldiers are saying they thought the coup was a >> drill... Of course You'd say that too if a firing squad or beheading was >> the other option. >> >> https://twitter.com/AP/status/754295122104348672 >> >> ON THE OTHER HAND Erdogan could be seen to be setting up a fake coup to >> use as excuse to kill of dissenting elements in the Turkish Military who >> say he's trying to create an islamist state and use the puny, >> half-assed, undermined-from-the-git coup attempt by low-level officers >> (patsies to you) to cement his power, as dictator, who allows the >> supplying of ‪‎ISIS‬, and whose son owns the trucks that transport, the >> refineries that process, the ships that carry to market, oil stolen from >> Iraq and elsewhere, again, by ISIS. >> >> Rr >> > Erdogan was busy blaming Gulen, a cleric who runs the equivalent of the > Turkish Rotary club. In Erdogan's paranoid world view Gulens > organization which runs a string of business clubs and bording schools > is really a conspiracy to kick him out of power in Turkey. Anything that > goes wrong in Turkey to Erdogan is automatically blamed on Gulen. > > This is the comical but true illustration of Erdogans view. > > --- Marina Brown > That's also my assessment. Gulen had the misfortune to know a RAND analyst who was CIA and later vouched for him when his visa was threatened. But he's no Dalai Lama or the guy who defected from the Libyan army then spent 30 years living in Vienna Va before the CIA tapped him to lead the nascent groups that killed gadaffi, or a Manny Noriega. The fact that his visa was threatened says he's involuntary... Also note no one was saying he'd be invited to the coup party... MOST writeups claim he's a moderate Sufi with minor mystical tendencies. I think he's rather stay in Pa. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 21:39:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:39:43 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <21261468708375@web5h.yandex.ru> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A5756.3090402@riseup.net> <21261468708375@web5h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <578B0C0F.70604@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 03:32 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > > An unbelievable night it was, yesterday :S I live in ankara the > capital, and our house shook with jet shockwaves and bombs till 5 a.m. > (could not get a proper sleep, obviously). > > Things seem to have settled down today. It was a very, very immature > and idiotically conducted coup attempt, mistakes were way too amateur, > especially considering turkish army's expertise on how to "restore > democracy" in its history. > > First off, as a very brief intro to power struggle in turkey; there > are secularist nationalists, which have been dominant ideologically in > state and military through all republic's history. Then erdogan's > islamist party won elections and in 14 years, first time in republic's > history, has managed to purge secularists from army, police > departments and judiciary system so extensively. Via show trials, > planted evidences, false accusations, etc., they have put all > secularist army personel in prison with accusations of coup attempts. > Some of the officers were not very innocent (army is known to have > ousted islamist govts before), but in overall, very few and immature > real evidence was expanded by way more lies, used to purge almost all > secularists in army. > > Then there is a religious sect following the cleric fethullah gulen > (who has been residing in pennsylvania for some time now). They have > been hand in hand with erdogan in coming to power and all of > secularist-purging operations all these years, they are also > ideologically compatible with erdogan against the modern, pro-western > secularists and other leftists. But eventually, they had come to a > power struggle with erdogan and went in full scale war with hım with > phone tapes disclosing massive corruption and hidden unlawful funds by > erdogan and his circle. Accusations and detention operations have been > exchanged and erdogan has come victorious from that too. (I will refer > to gulen organisation as "cemaat" from now on.) > > As any one with too much power and popularity, erdogan is now seeking > to secure even more power (to form a total one man dictatorship with > strong personality cult, to be precise) by changing the constitution > and fundamentals of republic. He could not manage to gather enough > political support (though he has a 45%-50% voter base) and > deliberately made the country into a living hell, letting massive > syrian refugee groups into country without proper preparations and > security (some of which are isis affiliated); breaking the peace talks > with kurd insurgents and provoking them by means of bloody military > operations into their cities; subtly (and sometimes openly) supporting > isis and not taking a strong stance against their terrorists inside > the borders (he constantly cracked down on leftist students and > intelligentsia whereas caught isis terrorists were being kept a few > days under detention and easily released). We have been enduring > frequent and horrible terror bombings at vital points in ankara and > istanbul for about a year now. Most people, unfortunately (this is > actually a classic, though) consolidating around him with extensive > propaganda and with hopes that he will provide a strong leadership to > stop this mayhem (with the irony, of course, that he is the one mostly > responsible for all this bloodshed). > > Now... > > The coup attempt was done yesterday, without any apparent support > whatsoever from opposition parties, civil organisations or foreign > countries. They could not manage to seize erdogan or any other govt > ofiicials. They could not manage to disrupt media or communications > (except a coup declaration from the national channel), whereas erdogan > managed to make a media coverage with teleconference, calling the > people to get down on streets and protest the rolling tanks. Coup > staff has bombed security and intelligence headquarters (they are very > loyal to erdogan), and eventually the parliament building itself with > jets. They made incredibly stupid moves, did not arrest any govt > personel, could not prevent media's pro-erdogan propaganda calling > people to streets, could not seize erdogan where even i myself could > keep track of his presidential aircraft from air traffic websites. No > leader for coup emerged, people could not even determine the ideology > of the rebels, lest show any support. In the end, it was ousted. Here > are the few theories for the coup attempt: > > 1- The coup was sincerely a coup, pulled off by still remaining few > secularist generals veeery clumsily and failed. > > 2- It was conducted by cemaat generals, knowing that they will also be > purged at the next defence counsel (poor translation?) in a desperate > attempt to hold on to their last chances. > > 3- It was mit (intel office of turkey, reputed to be loyal to erdogan > nowadays) falsely informing the generals with a secularist coup plan, > where they were given missions that will create terror but not > actually do any harm to erdogan's staff, claiming the critical jobs > like arresting erdogan, seizing media, etc. were allocated to *some > other general*. They took their parts with high hopes, only to > discover they were deceived and suddenly left with blood on their > hands with insufficient power to finish what they started. In > desparation, they threw everything they have, bombing the assembly > building and shooting around. This theory sounded like the most likely > to me. > > 4- It was a total hoax by erdogan. > > Whatever it was, we appear to be doomed now. Erdogan consolidated his > power, he's going to arrest whoever he likes and nobody's going to > question his rationale. His supporters have been brought down to > streets and are now highly provoked, possibly leading to random > violence and moblynching against minorities and opposers. He's gained > great sympathy from other rightwing voters (he's been using an > anti-coup rethoric all along his carreer, posing as the aggrieved of > constant aggression from military staff as an elected entity himself). > Calls to public to gather at the airport and guard erdogan were made > from mosques all through the night with religious verses (wtf, > really?! apparantly they like to depict this as a coup against their > invisible friend up in the skies). > > I am very worried for the countries' future, and for myself. This is > the current situation. Any comments are welcome. > > I REALLY appreciate the backgrounder Bastiani. My take on Gulen is he'd just as soon stay in Pennsylvania... Rr > > 7:08 PM, July 16, 2016, Rayzer >: > > > > On 07/16/2016 04:40 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > Consider searching the web for: > news Turkey coup d'etat > > Someone old told me coup d'etat's are common for Turkey, the > search > terms are: > > history Turkey coup d'etat > > Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? > > > http://nationalinterest.org/feature/turkey-secretly-working-nuclear-weapons-13898 > > > NOW, here's a 'conspiracy' theory... > > A number of Turkish soldiers are saying they thought the coup was a > drill... Of course You'd say that too if a firing squad or > beheading was > the other option. > > https://twitter.com/AP/status/754295122104348672 > > ON THE OTHER HAND Erdogan could be seen to be setting up a fake > coup to > use as excuse to kill of dissenting elements in the Turkish > Military who > say he's trying to create an islamist state and use the puny, > half-assed, undermined-from-the-git coup attempt by low-level officers > (patsies to you) to cement his power, as dictator, who allows the > supplying of ‪‎ISIS‬, and whose son owns the trucks that > transport, the > refineries that process, the ships that carry to market, oil > stolen from > Iraq and elsewhere, again, by ISIS. > > Rr > > > > > -- > You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are > nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 10399 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 21:43:05 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:43:05 -0700 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <578a87ef.c437ed0a.e8d64.74ad@mx.google.com> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> <5789CA54.1000703@riseup.net> <578a87ef.c437ed0a.e8d64.74ad@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578B0CD9.505@riseup.net> Why are you quoting my post in this Juan? You weren't responding to me. Are all the widdle lines on the sidebar moving around on you b/c narcotics? On 07/16/2016 12:18 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 23:47:00 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> Bruce doesn't hide the fact that he moderates comments on his blog. > Bruce? What, is the shitbag a family member of yours or > something? > > >> Bruce doesn't hide the fact that he moderates comments on his blog. > He doesn't? So where's the notice saying that he is a censor > who will delete comments he doesn't like? > > And even if there was such notice, that wouldn't change the > fact that he's an intellectual fraud. > > Exactly like you mirimir. Yep, I've had enough of you =) You've > finally proven you are a piece of shit - not to be trusted, at > all. > > >> If he claimed that he doesn't delete posts, but in fact does, that >> would be dishonest. >> >> It's his blog, so it's his choice. >> >>> Did you unintentionally misunderstand me? >>> >>> >>>> yet you so >>>> go on on about "nature/ character/ principles". Wutsupwitsdat? A >>>> little hypocrite wot? As I said I have no computer industry >>>> friends and the crap you're spewing is illustrative of why that >>>> might be. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 16 21:44:55 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:44:55 -0700 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <578a8bbd.55aa370a.2c81a.64ea@mx.google.com> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> <5789A364.9060509@riseup.net> <20160716031608.GO16437@x220-a02> <5789ADAB.5030001@riseup.net> <20160716051958.GP16437@x220-a02> <578A4E1D.9070001@riseup.net> <578a8bbd.55aa370a.2c81a.64ea@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578B0D47.5070401@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 12:35 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 08:09:17 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> >> On 07/15/2016 10:19 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> Fact: Schnier deleted Juan's post. >> >> Fact. Juan is a TROLL who couldn't possibly have anything rational to >> add to anything Schnier posts. > > schneider is a jewish neocon like you rayzer =) > > OOPS. Your 'lefty' 'progressive' 'humanitarian' mask fell off > yet again =) > I rest my case. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 04:55:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 21:55:40 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160716115540.GU16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 02:40:46PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Consider searching the web for: > news Turkey coup d'etat > > Someone old told me coup d'etat's are common for Turkey, the search > terms are: > > history Turkey coup d'etat Interesting. Conflicting reports. Evidently Turkish govt is trying to paint a "we handled it already" picutre, but that may not be the case. Let's see... > Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? Pretty sure not, although they have been the conduit for mountains of weapons from Libya and Ukraine into Syria - and Ukraine had a lot of USSR military gear. But I think any nukes got handled shortly after the collapse of USSR - one of the rare examples of co-operation between North America and Russia, to handle the ex-soviet nuclear arsenal. Thankfully. And besides, the rat line from Libya and Ukraine has been run by the CIA, not Turkey. Still absolutely shameful of course... From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:08:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:08:23 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578ab825.0762370a.59ac.04b6@mx.google.com> References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> <578ab825.0762370a.59ac.04b6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 7/16/16, juan wrote: > So grarpamp you couldn't name the 'element of truth' in your > pal's conspiracy theory. You're wasting your time Juan. And welcome to another stint in the purgatory of my mail filter. From joyland at sigaint.org Sat Jul 16 15:22:40 2016 From: joyland at sigaint.org (Joy) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:22:40 -0000 Subject: Fwd: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government Message-ID: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> - - - Begin forwarded message - - - From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:27:08 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:27:08 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: > And if anyone has this deleted video, please repost this footage > of censored foreign lands to a censorship free location: > https://vimeo.com/172360421 Someone has posted this video here. 270MiB. Unknown if it is the original quality or content. http://player.vimple.ru/iframe/04506a053f124483b8fb05ed73899f19 From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:31:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 23:31:27 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> References: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578aed56.0363370a.39f33.9e2f@mx.google.com> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 11:58:10 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I watched those talks by Applebaum that grarpamp posted, and I have a > new appreciation for who Applebaum is, at least a small view of part > of his life journey. And frankly, I like what I see. Combining this > with the way he was thrown under the bus by the rest of the Tor Inc > (some now ex) employees, paints a compelling picture for me that > Applebaum was a hard pill for the rest of Tor Inc to swallow - and I > mean that in a "very good for the rest of us" way. > What I see is a guy who 'earned' something like 100K per year (WTF!!!) - money paid by the pentagon, while pretending to be a 'lefty' 'anarchist'. AND, he got 100K per year from the pentagon to promote the pentagon's fake anonimity network. In my book that is pretty bad. And I don't think he's done any pretty good things to at least offset all that bad, let alone ending up with a positive balance. Perhaps he wasn't as bad as other members of the tor 'project' but that's not exactly a high standard. Not to mention he *was* a full member of the tor establishment until a month ago. Sorry. > The balance in my high mount everest opinion, from what little I've > read and seen so far, shows Applebaum in a light which is a very good > light. A man of empathy, a man who's not had an easy personal journey > in life, a man who made some tough and adventurous decisions in ways > which I (for what little it's worth) personally approve of. > > Thank you Jacob Applebaum. > > (PS grarpamp, thanks for those links by the way, really appreciated.) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:32:46 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 23:32:46 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <578a8947.012fed0a.e86f.00af@mx.google.com> <578ab825.0762370a.59ac.04b6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578aeda5.412fc80a.85511.946d@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:08:23 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 7/16/16, juan wrote: > > So grarpamp you couldn't name the 'element of truth' in your > > pal's conspiracy theory. > > You're wasting your time Juan. Why? Well, I know you are a dishonest scumbag, true, but I think it's OK to drive the point home. > And welcome to another stint in the purgatory of my mail filter. uh oh - I'll comment on your spam anyway, you know =) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 19:34:34 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 23:34:34 -0300 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578aee11.8aebe90a.fa7fb.9239@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:27:08 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > > And if anyone has this deleted video, please repost this footage > > of censored foreign lands to a censorship free location: > > https://vimeo.com/172360421 > > Someone has posted this video here. 270MiB. > Unknown if it is the original quality or content. > > http://player.vimple.ru/iframe/04506a053f124483b8fb05ed73899f19 doesn't work without js it's amazing how a master of hackers like you grarpamp can't even provide a link to some half decent hosting? From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sat Jul 16 15:32:55 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 00:32:55 +0200 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <578A5756.3090402@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A5756.3090402@riseup.net> Message-ID: <21261468708375@web5h.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8091 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Sat Jul 16 22:57:01 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:57:01 -0400 Subject: schneier's concentration camp In-Reply-To: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> References: <57893eb1.822dc80a.fdcf8.19a9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <686D3291-7369-4823-9BBD-99927E3F64DB@synfin.org> On July 15, 2016 3:54:00 PM EDT, juan wrote: > > >https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/security_effect.html > >"Security Effectiveness of the Israeli West Bank Barrier" > >"The Barrier together with associated security activities was effective >in preventing suicide bombings and other attacks and fatalities with >little if any apparent displacement. Changes in terrorist behavior >likely resulted from the construction of the Barrier, not from other >external factors or events." > >-------------- > >So that's the kind of nazi war propaganda that this highly reputable >new member of the tor's 'board of directors' posts in his blog. > > >Also look at this comment from one of his supremacist bots : > >"Shachar • July 15, 2016 2:07 AM >@free, >I always wondered about such comments. What makes Miko Peled's version >of how things went down more reliable than other sources?..." > > >That guy shachar is replying to sombebody who used the nickname "free". >So now look for the post that schachar is replying to? OOPS. It doesn't >exist. And that's because it was deleted by schneier =) At the moment there are a couple of sarcastic responses to what was IMO a blog post in way bad taste, that haven't been "moderated." The following gem : In other news, J. Mengele has published a paper comparing the effectiveness of intima-to-intima approximation versus interrupted simple sutures for sewing gypsy twins together. -- John From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 23:35:45 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 02:35:45 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> References: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 7/16/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > So we have various countries banning end to end encryption - Russia, > possibly China?, now the UK ...what is stopping America from doing so? Apparently this guy. https://www.schneierfacts.com/ https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bruce+schneier+chuck+norris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ui3tLbzIgQ Time will tell what come of bans. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 00:17:17 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:17:17 -0400 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... Message-ID: https://securityinabox.org/en/about http://bpo4ybbs2apk4sk4.onion/ This toolkit was created by the Tactical Technology Collective and Front Line Defenders. The development of the toolkit is supported by Hivos, Internews, Sida, EIDHR, Oak Foundation, Sigrid Rausing Fund, AJWS, Open Society Foundations, Ford Foundation. Special Thanks to The Citizen Lab, the Guardian Project, Riseup, the Tor Project & EFF https://tacticaltech.org/ Tactical Tech is an international NGO helping human rights advocates use information... https://www.frontlinedefenders.org/ Front Line Defenders was founded with the specific aim of protecting human rights defenders... https://ansarukhilafah.wordpress.com/category/security-tips/ Everything about the Islamic state; News updates,All Media releases,fatawa and articles about the Khilafah... From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 16 20:51:23 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:51:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: AP: estimating odds, cryptocurrencies, status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1470994802.446780.1468727483630.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: grarpamp Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:35 PM Subject: AP: estimating odds, cryptocurrencies, status On 7/13/16, jim bell wrote: >> The analysis for America is simple:  The Feds collect $3 trillion in taxes >> peryear.  Suppose each person who pays $1 in tax also pays 1 cent for a >> fundto get rid of his oppressors, or $30 billion.  If a hit cost $100,000 >> (probably that estimate is very high), if you divide $30 billion by >> $100,000, that wouldpay for 300,000 hits.  Do you think that the government >> could function effectively if even as few as 30,000 get killed over a 1-year >> period?Let alone 300,000? >Say there are 10M anonymous user of darknets, 0.001% might >throw $100 cryptos at it for politics or lols, that's $1M or 10 $100k hits. >There's all sorts of sliders you can play with there that could >ultimately yield some form of interference in the timeline. AP should be remarkably economical.  There are economic concepts known as"current value of money" and "future value of money" that reflect the effects of inflationand the interest rate.   If a person has to pay "1 unit" of tax each year, how much should he be willing to spend to avoid this?  Ignoring inflation, and assuming the interest rate is about 3%, a person might be willing to pay (1/0.03), or 33 units to ceasethat obligation.  (approximately).  Fortunately, as my estimate above explains,if 'everyone' was willing to pay perhaps 1% of his yearly obligations, that would presumably stop the system that requires these payments. Now, it should be pointed out that there will still have to be SOME sort of systemto run what we have called up until now "government".  But there is no reason to believe that such a system needs to be nearly as large as it currently is. For instance, I have predicted that AP will completely replace what has been called"National Defense", not merely for America but for each geographic entity previously called a "country".  In other words, the $600 billion that we're spending might drop tounder (say) $1 billion/year.   That would certainly sound impossible to believe to aperson to whom AP wasn't explained.   >Beyond estimating, there's the large questions of >- What, if any, such markets have sprung up? So far, no effective ones, I think.  At least, no death attributable to such a system hasbeen identified, and I feel certain we would have heard if that had happened.Sanjuro's thing of about November 2013 did not function; I felt it would not when I heard that it only accepted a minimum bid of 1 Btc, which at thetime was about $800.  I felt, and still feel, that a minimum donation at least a factor of1000 times smaller would be desirable, and probably 10,000x smaller. The one really useful thing about Sanjuro's effort is that it exposed how people (atleast, hundreds of journalists) were going to react to an AP-type system.  His systemdidn't eventually work, but the people who wrote about it didn't know that at the time.  Therefore, I accept their reactions as being representative of 'the real thing' when it happens. One of the reasons that government can't complain too loudly was the Federal Government's FutureMAP system, proposed for a day or so in 2003.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Analysis_Market  >- If not, why not? An excellent subject for a debate!  But remember, if nobody had bothered to take thetime an effort to implement Bitcoin, we'd all be asking "Why hasn't anybody implementedan effective digital currency yet?  After all, I first read of David Chaum's article aboutDigicash in Scientific American magazine in 1992 or so.  It took another 17 or so years to do Btc.More later on this. - When will they? What are their requirements and environment to startup, and succeed? As Nick Szabo said in May 2015, at:   http://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2015/05/small-game-fallacies.html      " A sufficiently large market predicting an individual's death is also, necessarily, an assassination market, and similarly other "prediction" markets are also act markets, changing incentives to act outside that market to bring about the predicted events."  But everybody has to be assured that the system will function, will play fair, and that all actors involved will get what they expect from it.  I am paying attention to Ethereum and Augur.  A prediction market, run on an  unstoppable distributed computer comprising hundreds of thousands of separate networked computers, means that things aren't occurring at anyspecific location, but instead are happening "everywhere".                 Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 14737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 01:25:25 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 04:25:25 -0400 Subject: AP: estimating odds, cryptocurrencies, status In-Reply-To: <1470994802.446780.1468727483630.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1470994802.446780.1468727483630.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/16/16, jim bell wrote: > AP should be remarkably economical. There are economic concepts known > as"current value of money" and "future value of money" that reflect the > effects of inflationand the interest rate. If a person has to pay "1 unit" > of tax each year, how much should he be willing to spend to avoid this? People should learn those concepts. A lot of success is tied to them. > Now, it should be pointed out that there will still have to be SOME sort of > systemto run what we have called up until now "government". But there is no > reason to believe that such a system needs to be nearly as large as it > currently is. Bid systems can reduce costs to the buyers, and can even include insurance on contractual performance of obligations by bidders. Performance incentives could take many forms. > For instance, I have predicted that AP will completely replace what has been > called"National Defense", not merely for America but for each geographic > entity previously called a "country". In other words, the $600 billion that > we're spending might drop tounder (say) $1 billion/year. That would > certainly sound impossible to believe to aperson to whom AP wasn't > explained. > I am paying attention to Ethereum and Augur. A prediction market That's something a lot of people read AP haven't yet grown beyond... The potential application isn't just assassinations, or dark predictions... but democratically produced outcomes, and VC funded side expeditions. As with existing systems today, the procurement needs of general populations will end up greatly outweighing the minor background noise of things like murder for hire. Want that road from A to B repaired... write a contract for it. A new fire truck or cop on the street... wager a prediction. Basic health / elder care... Terraforming Mars... Now offering 1:2 farmer's commodity that, if not wholesale reformed, a certain global power will have difficulty surviving under its current ways past the 32 bit epoch, certainly not past 2076. bitcoin:1B98do1M9Uh1FRmMQsCGrLpUeG1etUPCbU All buyers stipulating insurance terms will be rejected ;) From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 17 07:06:40 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 07:06:40 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578B90F0.40000@riseup.net> On 07/16/2016 11:35 PM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/16/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> So we have various countries banning end to end encryption - Russia, >> possibly China?, now the UK ...what is stopping America from doing so? > Apparently this guy. > > https://www.schneierfacts.com/ > https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bruce+schneier+chuck+norris > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ui3tLbzIgQ > > Time will tell what come of bans. > Apparently this guy: https://johnleach.co.uk/ = schneierfacts.com/ I wonder how badly his Brightbox Cloud is compromised. He can't even run a decent slander blog. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jul 16 21:50:20 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 07:50:20 +0300 Subject: Fwd: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: A very good example of a Lie (by Peter Fairbrother) and a further precise exposure of the contradictions within the Lie (by Zenaan). P.s For future attempts by liars: So apparent contradictions in the lie itself... you know, Peter/mr. X... it doesn't add too much authenticity to it. However, there is still a chance that a superficial sheeple will swallow it. But thanks God, we've got Zenaan :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Zenaan Harkness Date: 2016-07-17 4:42 GMT+03:00 Subject: Re: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:02:57PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > On 16/07/16 09:28, Georgi Guninski wrote: > >Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > >noisy. > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > > > >>UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > > > >Very sound, nice and democratic... First part: > Things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have > approximately zero legal significance. To a very close approximation. > Practically speaking, indistinguishable from zero. > > What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. > > Which in this case is pretty bad, but not a power to ban end-to-end > encryption. > > In fact, it doesn't affect most in-use forms of end-to-end encryption at > all. Second part: > "Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in > the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any > telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person > providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in > or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of > communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a > system." > > That would include many commercial sites who use SSL/TLS. If you put a > "contact me" link on your web pages, you are a "relevant operator". Gimme > your SSL keys! I'm not sure how you can say the first part above, in the face of quoting and saying what you do in the second part. > That's what the Bill actually says, if you read it carefully. Like RIPA, it > is opaque beyond the point of obscurity, and it takes a lot of reading. You quoted the relevant part, thank you. That part does not take much reading to see how bad it truly is, even though the rest (unquoted) of the bill may be massively opaque. > Good points? Only encryption which has been applied by a "relevant > operator" is affected - So something is good, or potentially good - let's find out what: > at least until the Home Secretary makes regulations > otherwise (which under the Bill she can do). In other words, the bill doesn't automatically affect the status quo of existing websites (website certificates?) because, well who knows, that's the current interpretation but tomorrow's interpretation can just as well be "hand over your keys bitch, or you're going to jail" even if you are Facebook or Google (though the "going to jail" bit, if it were possible, would be a good outcome for Facebook for example ... alas, I dream)! And the determination of who has to hand over keys (i.e. who is a "relevant operator") is nothing more than whatever the Home Secretary (currently female it seems) says! Perhaps next week is her bad week of the month and your free speech website (nicely TLSed with personally issued and in person verified certificate provider keys etc) happens to have a discussion which pushes her (the Home Secretary's) trigger word buttons. And you say this is GOOD?! WTF? Am I misunderstanding something here? Sounds as good as North America's endless extra-judicial drone killings (that's murder, and despotic, in case it's not otherwise obvious to you). > Bad points? It doesn't do anything at all against the clued-up terrorist or > criminal. It decreases security for legitimate actors and businesses. You say that as though there are good points, see above. > BTW, things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, > have approximately zero legal significance. What the Courts look at is the > wording of the Act. Thanks for quoting the relevant part of the act, and letting us know that the definitions for "relevant operator"s will be handed down extra- judicially by the Home Secretary. How very, democratic we might as well call it.. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6020 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter at m-o-o-t.org Sun Jul 17 01:28:49 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:28:49 +0100 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> On 17/07/16 02:42, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:02:57PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: >> On 16/07/16 09:28, Georgi Guninski wrote: >>> Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite >>> noisy. >>> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ >>> >>>> UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption >>> >>> Very sound, nice and democratic... > > First part: > >> Things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have >> approximately zero legal significance. To a very close approximation. >> Practically speaking, indistinguishable from zero. >> >> What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. >> >> Which in this case is pretty bad, but not a power to ban end-to-end >> encryption. >> >> In fact, it doesn't affect most in-use forms of end-to-end encryption at >> all. > > Second part: > >> "Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in >> the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any >> telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person >> providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in >> or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of >> communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a >> system." >> >> That would include many commercial sites who use SSL/TLS. If you put a >> "contact me" link on your web pages, you are a "relevant operator". Gimme >> your SSL keys! > > I'm not sure how you can say the first part above, in the face of > quoting and saying what you do in the second part. > >> That's what the Bill actually says, if you read it carefully. Like RIPA, it >> is opaque beyond the point of obscurity, and it takes a lot of reading. > > You quoted the relevant part, thank you. That part does not take much > reading to see how bad it truly is, even though the rest (unquoted) of > the bill may be massively opaque. Actually, just finding that in the Bill wasn't easy - and it isn't a single part, it's taken from at least five different places in the Bill. If it seems clear, then I did a good job putting them together. Thing is, while the Bill isn't good, it doesn't have anything at all to do with banning end-to-end encryption. Or banning any sort of encryption. It can require "relevant operators" to maintain some backdoors, most obviously in mobile link encryption and some VPNs and other encrypted links which are operated by "relevant operators". Less obviously, it can be applied to some websites and the like. But there is no power to ban encryption anywhere in the Bill. If you as a private person apply the encryption yourself, there is no power in the Bill to make you backdoor it (though there have been powers in RIPA to enforce demands for keys in some circumstances since 2001), and there is no power to prevent you from using encryption. >> Good points? Only encryption which has been applied by a "relevant >> operator" is affected - > > So something is good, or potentially good - let's find out what: > >> at least until the Home Secretary makes regulations >> otherwise (which under the Bill she can do). > > In other words, the bill doesn't automatically affect the status quo of > existing websites (website certificates?) because, well who knows, > that's the current interpretation but tomorrow's interpretation can just > as well be "hand over your keys bitch, or you're going to jail" even if > you are Facebook or Google (though the "going to jail" bit, if it were > possible, would be a good outcome for Facebook for example ... alas, I > dream)! > > And the determination of who has to hand over keys (i.e. who is a > "relevant operator") is nothing more than whatever the Home Secretary > (currently female it seems) Yep, we have a brand new female Home Secretary. The old one is now Prime Minister ... (and she's madder than Mad Maggy Thatcher ever was 8-( says! Perhaps next week is her bad week of > the month and your free speech website (nicely TLSed with personally > issued and in person verified certificate provider keys etc) happens to > have a discussion which pushes her (the Home Secretary's) trigger word > buttons. > > And you say this is GOOD?! > > WTF? Am I misunderstanding something here? I was not clear - while the HS can extend the notices to eg include other forms of encryption not applied by "relevant operators", she cannot serve notices on, or force any other obligation on, anyone except "relevant operators". If you are a private citizen and you aren't providing a service, she can't prevent you from doing any encryption you like, nor can she make you backdoor it. PGP is okay, and there's not a thing in the Bill which says she can do anything to ban it. Neither can she stop people using SSL/TLS, or except in the case of some UK-based servers, mandate backdoors in it. She could in theory serve a notice on Google, Apple or Facebook - but in practice, none of these would actually be obligated to obey it. > Sounds as good as North America's endless extra-judicial drone killings > (that's murder, and despotic, in case it's not otherwise obvious to > you). > >> Bad points? It doesn't do anything at all against the clued-up terrorist or >> criminal. It decreases security for legitimate actors and businesses. > > You say that as though there are good points, see above. > > >> BTW, things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, >> have approximately zero legal significance. What the Courts look at is the >> wording of the Act. > > Thanks for quoting the relevant part of the act, and letting us know > that the definitions for "relevant operator"s will be handed down extra- > judicially by the Home Secretary. err, no - that one is defined in the Bill, she can't change the meaning of "relevant operator". She can change some of the things she requires "relevant operators" to do - but if you aren't a "relevant operator" she can't require you to do anything. > How very, democratic we might as well call it.. > hmmm -- Peter Fairbrother From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 18:02:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 11:02:26 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578A55BE.1030905@riseup.net> References: <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <20160715113326.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <57892c8d.850a370a.8a5a0.2a1f@mx.google.com> <57893200.8020004@riseup.net> <57893781.7c33c80a.b641d.2364@mx.google.com> <20160716113244.GC748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A55BE.1030905@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160717010226.GX16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 08:41:50AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/16/2016 04:32 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:14:07AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > >> On 7/15/16, juan wrote: > >>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:57:04 -0700 > >>> Rayzer wrote: > >>> > >>>> It's "Informational Abuse". Juan's fishing for information about > >>>> people and their personalities for the feds. > >>> Now that's an entertaining conspiracy theory =) > >> It's been said that within every conspiracy theory > >> lies an element of truth ;-) > > Agreed. > > > Here is another conspiracy theory: both rayzer and juan are puppet > > accounts of a single actor, other than god [1]. > > That's why I sign my posts. > > Further, my handle appears all over the intertubz at various venues for > at least a decade now and covers topics that Juan has no expertise > whatsoever in, nor interest. Hmmmm... yes, yes, God -would- be so devious now wouldn't he, come to think of it, and he's probably have no problem knowing your private key either... "God, omnipotently devious in his subversive trolling brilliance." From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 18:42:38 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 11:42:38 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:02:57PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > On 16/07/16 09:28, Georgi Guninski wrote: > >Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > >noisy. > > > >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > > > >>UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > > > >Very sound, nice and democratic... First part: > Things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have > approximately zero legal significance. To a very close approximation. > Practically speaking, indistinguishable from zero. > > What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. > > Which in this case is pretty bad, but not a power to ban end-to-end > encryption. > > In fact, it doesn't affect most in-use forms of end-to-end encryption at > all. Second part: > "Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in > the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any > telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person > providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in > or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of > communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a > system." > > That would include many commercial sites who use SSL/TLS. If you put a > "contact me" link on your web pages, you are a "relevant operator". Gimme > your SSL keys! I'm not sure how you can say the first part above, in the face of quoting and saying what you do in the second part. > That's what the Bill actually says, if you read it carefully. Like RIPA, it > is opaque beyond the point of obscurity, and it takes a lot of reading. You quoted the relevant part, thank you. That part does not take much reading to see how bad it truly is, even though the rest (unquoted) of the bill may be massively opaque. > Good points? Only encryption which has been applied by a "relevant > operator" is affected - So something is good, or potentially good - let's find out what: > at least until the Home Secretary makes regulations > otherwise (which under the Bill she can do). In other words, the bill doesn't automatically affect the status quo of existing websites (website certificates?) because, well who knows, that's the current interpretation but tomorrow's interpretation can just as well be "hand over your keys bitch, or you're going to jail" even if you are Facebook or Google (though the "going to jail" bit, if it were possible, would be a good outcome for Facebook for example ... alas, I dream)! And the determination of who has to hand over keys (i.e. who is a "relevant operator") is nothing more than whatever the Home Secretary (currently female it seems) says! Perhaps next week is her bad week of the month and your free speech website (nicely TLSed with personally issued and in person verified certificate provider keys etc) happens to have a discussion which pushes her (the Home Secretary's) trigger word buttons. And you say this is GOOD?! WTF? Am I misunderstanding something here? Sounds as good as North America's endless extra-judicial drone killings (that's murder, and despotic, in case it's not otherwise obvious to you). > Bad points? It doesn't do anything at all against the clued-up terrorist or > criminal. It decreases security for legitimate actors and businesses. You say that as though there are good points, see above. > BTW, things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, > have approximately zero legal significance. What the Courts look at is the > wording of the Act. Thanks for quoting the relevant part of the act, and letting us know that the definitions for "relevant operator"s will be handed down extra- judicially by the Home Secretary. How very, democratic we might as well call it.. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 17 11:55:49 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 11:55:49 -0700 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578BD4B5.1070708@riseup.net> On 07/17/2016 11:38 AM, John Newman wrote: do you really think Applebaum is of the same level of importance to the things you mention - privacy / human rights / surveillance state, etc, as Julian Assange or Ed Snowden? It's just teh "MAN'S" way of saying "hi... We're gonna fuck over all your acquaintances." Remember what Chris Dorner did to the LAPD that scared the living shit out of them? He went after the cops' family and friends. It's classic counterinsurgency tactic he learned from the kind of people who want to kill Snowden and Assange. It's NOT limited to high profile people either. I knew a woman a junkie hooker, who was murdered so the feds could spook her memorial service to see if her weatherman fugitive boyfriend would turn up. Like that... Rr >> On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:50 AM, grarpamp wrote: >> >> On 7/15/16, John Newman wrote: >>> Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of >>> massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? >> On both... Are you fucking kidding me? >> >> Even before Snowden censored himself and Assange got locked down... >> He's one of the outspoken few that was still out traveling around the world >> bringing knowledge of Tor / privacy / human rights / surveillance etc the >> whole scope... with zero fear and a solid compelling presentation based >> on personal conviction and experience. Others at Tor mostly stayed >> to the conference rooms, he was transcending personal rooms even >> before joining Tor... >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo >> >> Here he is talking on the subject with a roomful of Muslims in Quwait... >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcpVBqy9Dc >> > Right on. I obviously didn’t keep abreast of all the important > Applebaum-works (I don’t watch a whole lot of youtube videos, I > prefer reading). I run a little tor relay, lurk on a couple of tor > lists, am constantly hacking my fork of roundcube to work better with > GPG, etc… but basically I've always had more of an interest in the > technical details. So apparently I missed some important shit. > > As I already said to Zen - thanks for filling me in :P > > P.S. All sarcasm/snide bullshit aside - do you really think Applebaum > is of the same level of importance to the things you mention - > privacy / human rights / surveillance state, etc, as Julian Assange > or Ed Snowden? Snowden may have clammed up but he got a lot of > good shit out there. Likewise they have tried to clam Assange up > but he keeps on pumping shit out. > > — > john -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3655 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 18:58:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 11:58:10 +1000 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> References: <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> <578a8b1f.ca2fc80a.d602b.9fd6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160717015810.GB16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 04:32:27PM -0300, juan wrote: > You get fucking real. Appelbaum is a self-serving fraud. The jury's out, but the jury is always out - who knows what the future will bring, who know's what "evidence of wrongdoing" or for that matter what further "evidence of right doing" will be presented in respect of Applebaum in the future. I watched those talks by Applebaum that grarpamp posted, and I have a new appreciation for who Applebaum is, at least a small view of part of his life journey. And frankly, I like what I see. Combining this with the way he was thrown under the bus by the rest of the Tor Inc (some now ex) employees, paints a compelling picture for me that Applebaum was a hard pill for the rest of Tor Inc to swallow - and I mean that in a "very good for the rest of us" way. The balance in my high mount everest opinion, from what little I've read and seen so far, shows Applebaum in a light which is a very good light. A man of empathy, a man who's not had an easy personal journey in life, a man who made some tough and adventurous decisions in ways which I (for what little it's worth) personally approve of. Thank you Jacob Applebaum. (PS grarpamp, thanks for those links by the way, really appreciated.) From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 16 20:13:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:13:49 +1000 Subject: Fwd: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government In-Reply-To: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> Message-ID: <20160717031349.GC16437@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 10:22:40PM -0000, Joy wrote: > - - - Begin forwarded message - - - > > Date: July 15, 2016 at 3:21:32 PM EDT > From: Herb Lin > To: "'David Farber (dave at farber.net)'" , ip > Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing > Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT community > and the US government > > Dear IPers - Making your intentions easier to read would be a start. Makes them easier to respond to: > You may know that President Obama has established a commission to > consider how to > - strengthen cybersecurity in both > - the public and > - private sectors > - while protecting privacy, > - ensuring public safety and > - ensuring economic and national security, > - fostering discovery and development > of new technical solutions, Your terms of reference are fundamentally in conflict. This causes people to contribute in the hope that you will personally balance possible outcomes in favour of the people (or principles which we would identify as just and righteous), and in the US government this "balance" or "favouring of righteousness" is almost never achieved. The stated intentions, these foundations or 'terms of reference' of your "study" are conflicting. No foundation principles have been provided by you. No undertakings have been provided by you in respect of how any contributions to your study will be used. We who contribute, are expected to have faith that you, representative of "the government" will somehow do the right thing, act in our interest. How are we to have faith that you would in fact act in our interest? You have presented no foundation of intention, let alone undertaking, such as any of the following: - fundamental human rights (right to travel, communicate privately etc) - the ultimate sovereignty of we the people - true democracy (political anarchy or direct democracy for example) - nor any other principle worth supporting or standing for, You are employed by the US government. The US government drones people to death, every day, all around the world, based on meta data that it collects globally to the greatest extent possible. These daily killings by the US, done via the IT infrastructure centred at Ramstein Air Base in Germany, established by the "IP"ers "technology" and "security" "professionals" of America, these killings are all extra-judicial, outside any court case, outside anything resembling democracy or the rule of law! HOW CAN WE TRUST YOU? WHY SHOULD WE CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR STUDY? You want feedback and assistance, but rather than any of: - principles - foundations - truth - true democracy - absolute sovereignty of the people, you merely provide a list of conflicting "considerations" and "possible intentions", which cannot possibly be resolved in your foundation terms. The US North American regime has year after year, since World War 2, deceived the people, bombed other people, unilaterally acted in war, and generally been highly despotic in its actions. How can this possibly be brought to a stop? Can your study help to stop the North American regime? How will the results of your study help to stop the daily extra-judicial killing by the US government by drone, all around the world? How can the results of your study bring any credibility whatsoever, to the actions of the US government and military industrial banking complex? North America has sold and bombed away every shred of honor, decency and democracy that it ever had. Therefore the US government has no credibility. The US government is not a legitimate government. The US government is not accountable where it matters - in respect of killing people in other sovereign nations. The US government does not respect the rule of law. The US government is not a democracy. There are SO many problems with the US government, that any attempt to help it, is only going to help kill more people, daily, around the world, outside of any acceptable process, by the US military. This all has to stop. Is there any hope, that contributing to your study, will help stop the killing? In the eyes of those who seek righteousness and goodness in the world, can you provide any reason for hope? The North American government has no high moral ground; no moral ground at all; it violates what the common man would consider ethical or moral at every turn, since World War 2 and indeed before! What's in it for us? Why should we help you? What's in it for our human brothers and sisters in Iraq, Syria, France, North America, Latin America, China, Russia and everywhere else in the world? > - and bolstering partnerships between > Federal, State, and local government and the private sector in the > - development, > - promotion, > - and use of > - cybersecurity technologies, > - policies, > - and best practices. The "government" (you personally in this instance) will usually come unstuck, and the terms of reference/ stated intentions of your study prove this prima facie (on the face of it) - your terms are in conflict from the start, so you will be unable to produce any effect worth contributing to, based on your current terms (which are in conflict). That is, we the people, who contribute to your study, will end up, like every other instance in the past, "screwed over". So, again, why should we help you? > (See > https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/02/09/executive-order-commission-enhancing-national-cybersecurity.) > I am one of the 12 designated commissioners. Western governments appear entirely lacking self awareness when it comes to what they do (which is a lot of evil actions amongst other things), how they are perceived by people who directly suffer the consequences of the "government" not upholding and protecting the absolute human rights of the people in its own country let alone other countries, as well as in the eyes of those who witness such injustices. If some country started conducting extra-judicial drone killings of US citizens on US soil, do you think there might be an uproar? You ("government") want to "balance" "competing" interests (so you imply, you don't even be explicit about this) such as those of the people (security, privacy and anonymity of communication for example - we can only hope, you give no promise, no undertaking, we are to trust you absolutely); and those "interests" of the government, which "should" be aligned with the people, but never seem to be! I.e. the interests of the government and military industrial banking complex (monitoring the people to the greatest extent possible, to aid those with power and money - i.e. subversion of the "democratic" "government" to the selfish, greedy and despotic intentions of the few with great money and great power). Are you able to affect any real change? Is there any hope that your study will actually help shift the "balance" away from those with power, to the people of the world? It is unlikely you can contribute to true democracy by helping to dismantle this despotic global surveillance infrastucture that the US government and its organs has put in place and uses to unilaterally kill people daily (CIA: "we kill people based on meta data"), but anything else you do will of course further these despotic intentions and methods of globabl surveillance and despotic actions of killing people daily without any trial, without any conviction, without any testing of evidence and without any jury of ones peers, and therefore you will be personally contributing to this evil that the world suffers at the hands of the US government today. And tomorrow. And every day after that. More and more humans being killed. Illegally. Herb/ Joy, can you help to stop this? This global illegal communications intercepting and meta data and actual data collecting infrastructure, is used on a daily basis to drone kill people all over the world, outside of any judicial process, outside of any "democratic" consent of 'the people' other than implied tacit consent by apathy and momentum (which of course has no hope of competing with the active monetary and power motivations of the military industrial banking complex). Can you help to stop these daily illegal killings? "Democratic governments" consider themselves sovereign, and with ultimate authority, and ultimate power. The supreme authority of the people, both collectively as well as individually, must be acknowledged, publicly, by any government to consider itself legitimate, and for that government to be seen as legitimate by educated humans. All 'significant' decisions (say anything costing more than $1000, like unilaterally dropping a drone bomb on a human in a foreign sovereign country) must be put to the people to decide on, for any "democracy" to actually be a democracy. Otherwise it is a fascist state, and not a democracy, and is killing people illegally. In other countries. Illegally. Many humans are schooled, but sadly, not educated. > Recognizing that trust is hard to build It is very hard to build when you are facilitating the daily killing of people around the world, outside the rule of law, outside democracy, outside sanity. > and easy to destroy Extra-judicial killing destroys trust, destroys democracy, and destroys a nation. North America will ultimately suffer the fallout of its despotic daily illegal killings. > (and a variety of things have happened over the last 20 years have > occurred to do the latter), Like killing people daily, completely illegally. That will certainly destroy trust. No individual can trust North America. Even presidential aeroplanes (the highest of "diplomatic immunity" if such a thing even existed or was respected by USA) is violated by the North American government - witness the grounding of the Ecuadorian president's plane in America's desperation to try to catch Snowden. No nation can trust the North American/ USA government. > one issue that has come up is the enormous > gap of trust between the U.S. government and the information > technology (IT) community, Are you truly surprised? Are you surprised that there is an enormous gap of trust? Are you suggesting that gap is not deserved? Are you mistakenly believing that the U.S. government is good and wholesome? > from which many IPers are drawn. Perhaps their conscience is getting to them, with all the killings happening by their infrastructure, on a daily basis, by the US military? Killing takes a toll on conscionable humans. > This rift > is not helpful to either side, It is not helpful to the US government. But this rift is VERY helpful to we the people. We are suffering the despotic actions of the US government. We are suffering the US government: - killing people daily, extra-judicially - monitoring most of the worlds communications in real time - collecting of most of the worlds comms meta data - the use of the things we make (computers, networks, crypto systems) to kill people extra-judicially on a daily basis - the targetting and stalking of our best and fairest (those who want to bring the US government to account, to blow the whistle on despotic actions) - the reckless debt creation - the financial meltdown to come, which was mathematically guaranteed when the US dollar was taken OFF the gold backing standard - endless violations of human rights by the US government, all around the world, on a daily basis We, IPers, crypto nerds, cypher punks, programmers, hackers, crackers, moms, dads, brothers and sisters, artists and all the rest, we NEED to maintain distrust of the US government, or for some of us, we will be killed as a result of our righteous actions! If we let down our guard, we will be imprisoned for many years simply for exercising our right of freedom of speech! HOW DARE you suggest that our distrust is not helpful to our side. And who's SIDE are you on?!!!! When the government is at war with people/ on the other side, of its own people, and you work for the government, are you on the right side or the wrong side? Shouldn't you be trying to cause others "in government" to treat the people as not "on the other side"? How can you, the government, speak to us like this? > and I'd like to solicit input from the IP community about what you > think the government can do - destroy all meta data collected - dismantle the global monitoring infrastructure - rapproach with Russia (the US MIC needs an enemy to maintain justification for its funding) - dismantle Ramstein Air Base - respect China - respect sovereignty of nations - obtain permission from sovereign democratically elected governments before going to war or assisting in any way a civil war within a country - respect international law - respect the rule of law > or refrain from doing - stop collecting meta data - stop killing people daily, illegally - stop overthrowing sovereign nations - stop frauding your own elections > to help bridge that gap. Stop killing people illegally. > It would be most helpful if you could three things in your response: > > 1 - Your best examples of things the government (and what part of the > US government) has done to alienate the IT community specifically. > (Or, at the very least, show how the examples you provide connect to > the interests of the IT community.) Using the IT community created infrastructure, to illegally kill people every day, every week, every month, every year, year after year. Can this be stopped? > 2 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > short and medium term (i.e., 0-10 year time frame) that would help > bridge the trust gap. If your answer is "Don't do dumb things!", ultimateit > would be better and more useful to provide *examples* of what not to > do. Stop killing people illegally, every day, in sovereign countries all around the world. > 3 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > longer term to do the same. Promise to the world, publicly, repeatedly, to never kill people illegally again. Promise to the world, publicly, to stop sending weapons to anyone. Promise to the world to start obeying the rule of law, international law, and the UN Security Council. Stick to these promises. > Please send your responses to CENCinput1 at gmail.com. (I set up this > email address, but I'd like to keep the traffic separate from my > non-Commission work email.) I promise to read as many as I can > individually and share what I learn with the commission membership. > > Also, feel free to circulate this call for input to anyone else you > feel would want to comment. > > Thanks much > > Herb > > ======================================================================= > Herb Lin > Senior Research Scholar, Center for International Security and Cooperation > Research Fellow, Hoover Institution > Stanford University > Stanford, CA 94305 USA > herblin at stanford.edu > 650-497-8600 office || 202-841-0525 cell || 202-540-9878 fax > AIM herblin (any time you see me) > Skype herbert_lin (usually by appointment) > Twitter @HerbLinCyber > This message was sent to the list address and trashed, but can be found > online. > > - - - End forwarded message - - - From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 03:59:01 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:59:01 +0300 Subject: Fwd: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government In-Reply-To: <20160717031349.GC16437@x220-a02> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <20160717031349.GC16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: This "answer" must be printed and put on the desk of not only this "researcher", but on the desk of all the congressman. Couldn't stop myself from reposting this harsh piece of truth again, Zenaan. With "amen" on every basic statement of it. ___ in the US government this "balance" or "favouring of righteousness" is > almost never achieved. > !!! The US government drones people to death, every day, all around the > world, based on meta data that it collects globally to the greatest > extent possible. > !!! These daily killings by the US, done via the IT infrastructure centred at > Ramstein Air Base in Germany, established by the "IP"ers "technology" > and "security" "professionals" of America, these killings are all > extra-judicial, outside any court case, outside anything resembling > democracy or the rule of law! > !!! HOW CAN WE TRUST YOU? > THE KEY QUESTION. Or... shall i say a KEY STATEMENT? . The US North American regime has year after year, since World War 2, > deceived the people, bombed other people, unilaterally acted in war, and > generally been highly despotic in its actions. > !!! How can this possibly be brought to a stop? > ?! North America has sold and bombed away every shred of honor, decency and > democracy that it ever had. > ==> > Therefore the US government has no credibility. > The US government is not a legitimate government. > The US government is not accountable where it matters - in respect of > killing people in other sovereign nations. > The US government does not respect the rule of law. > The US government is not a democracy. > !!! There are SO many problems with the US government, that any attempt to > help it, is only going to help kill more people, daily, around the > world, outside of any acceptable process, by the US military. > !!! This all has to stop. > !!! In the eyes of those who seek righteousness and goodness in the world, > can you provide any reason for hope? > !!! The North American government has no high moral ground; no moral ground > at all; > it violates what the common man would consider ethical or moral at every > turn, since World War 2 and indeed before! > !!!!!!!!!! Why should we help you? > What's in it for our human brothers and sisters in Iraq, Syria, France, > North America, Latin America, China, Russia and everywhere else in the > world? > !!! Western governments appear entirely lacking self awareness when it comes > to what they do (which is a lot of evil actions amongst other things) > !!! Western governments appear entirely lacking self awareness when it comes > to how they are perceived by people who directly suffer the consequences of > the "government" not upholding and protecting the absolute human rights > of the people in its own country let alone other countries, as well as > in the eyes of those who witness such injustices. > !!! **** If some country started conducting extra-judicial drone killings of US* > *citizens on US soil, do you think there might be an uproar?* > *That's the BEST comparison ever!!!!* and those "interests" of the government, which "should" > be aligned with the people, but never seem to be! > !!! Are you able to affect any real change? > !!! despotic global surveillance infrastucture that the US > government and its organs has put in place and uses to unilaterally kill > people daily (CIA: "we kill people based on meta data") > !!! despotic intentions and methods > of globabl surveillance and despotic actions of killing people daily > without any trial, without any conviction, without any testing of > evidence and without any jury of ones peers > !!! > > *you will be personally contributing to this evil that the world suffers > at the handsof the US government today.* *!!!MOST OF US ARE DOING THAT!* More and more humans being killed. > Illegally. > Herb/ Joy/mr. X/Y/Z, can you help to stop this? > *!!!The question is, whether he/we WANT to or.... the warm bed and the nice suit is more important...The moment he WANTS -> HE "SUDDENLY" CAN.!* This global illegal communications intercepting and meta data and actual > data collecting infrastructure, is used on a daily basis to drone kill > people all over the world, outside of any judicial process, outside of > any "democratic" consent of 'the people' other than implied tacit > consent by apathy and momentum > !!! > *Can you help to stop these daily illegal killings?* *Again, this question refers to EVERY HUMAN BEING. Especially on this list.* The supreme authority of the people, both collectively as well as > individually, must be acknowledged, publicly, by any government to > consider itself legitimate > !!! All 'significant' decisions (say anything costing more than $1000, like > unilaterally dropping a drone bomb on a human in a foreign sovereign > country) must be put to the people to decide on, for any "democracy" to > actually be a democracy. Otherwise it is a fascist state, and not a > democracy, and is killing people illegally. > !!! Many humans are schooled, but sadly, not educated. > And "universitized" and even "professored"/big-bossed, but still, not educated! Extra-judicial killing destroys trust, destroys democracy, and destroys > a nation. North America will ultimately suffer the fallout of its > despotic daily illegal killings. > !!! Like killing people daily, completely illegally. That will certainly > destroy trust. > !!! No individual can trust North America. > No nation can trust the North American/ USA government. > !!! > > > > *Are you surprised that there is an enormous gap of trust?Are you > suggesting that gap is not deserved?Are you mistakenly believing that the > U.S. government is good andwholesome?* *!!!NO, HE IS NOT. Excluding the case that this is a CIA officer OR a dead walking zombie (although i see no big difference)*. Killing takes a toll on conscionable humans. > !!! > This rift is not helpful to either side, > It is not helpful to the US government. > But this rift is VERY helpful to we the people. We are suffering the > despotic actions of the US government. > !!! ___ > *We are suffering the US government:* > * - killing people daily, extra-judicially* > * - monitoring most of the worlds communications in real time* > * - collecting of most of the worlds comms meta data* > * - the use of the things we make (computers, networks, crypto systems)* > * to kill people extra-judicially on a daily basis* > * - the targetting and stalking of our best and fairest (those who want* > * to bring the US government to account, to blow the whistle on* > * despotic actions)* > * - the reckless debt creation* > * - the financial meltdown to come, which was mathematically guaranteed* > * when the US dollar was taken OFF the gold backing standard* > * - endless violations of human rights by the US government, all around* > * the world, on a daily basis* > !!! ___ *We, IPers, crypto nerds, cypher punks, programmers, hackers, crackers,* > *moms, dads, brothers and sisters, artists and all the rest, we NEED to* > *maintain distrust of the US government, or for some of us, we will be* > *killed as a result of our righteous actions!* > *!!!YES, DISTRUST! A TOTAL DIS-TRUST OF THE US GOV.* ! If we let down our guard, we will be imprisoned for many years simply > for exercising our right of freedom of speech! > !!! __ HOW DARE you suggest that our distrust is not helpful to our side. > *He is desperately LYING, Zen! Those scums want us to SMILE AND ENJOY when they torture our souls and killing our bodies. You see, it's not enough for them just to torture (all of us) and kill (some of us). We should also smile and welcome these actions.and trust them. Fucken INQUISITORS!* __ > > *When the government is at war with people/ on the other side, of its > ownpeople, and you work for the government, are you on the right side orthe > wrong side?* > !!! *How can you, the government, speak to us like this?* > !!! __ > and I'd like to solicit input from the IP community about what you think > the government can do > > - destroy all meta data collected > AMEN. - dismantle the global monitoring infrastructure > AMEN. - rapproach with Russia (the US MIC needs an enemy to maintain > justification for its funding) > AMEN. - dismantle Ramstein Air Base > AMEN. - respect China > AMEN. - respect sovereignty of nations > AMEN. - obtain permission from sovereign democratically elected governments > before going to war or assisting in any way a civil war within a > country > AMEN. - respect international law > AMEN. - respect the rule of law > AMEN. It's a good start, USgov. Don't you think? __ *> what you think the government should refrain from doing* > *- stop collecting meta data* > *- stop killing people daily, illegally* > *- stop overthrowing sovereign nations* > *- stop frauding your own elections* > ... *Stop LYING LYING LYING!Stop playing the chosen/god's/best nation of the world. AND START REALLY BECOMING SO.* ... ... > Your best examples of things the government (and what part of the > > US government) has done to alienate the IT community specifically. > Using the IT community created infrastructure, to illegally kill people > every day, every week, every month, every year, year after year. > Can this be stopped? > !!! > 2 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > > short and medium term > > *Stop killing people illegally, every day, in sovereign countries > allaround the world.* > !!! > 3 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > > longer term to do the same. > > > > > > > > *a. Promise to the world, publicly, repeatedly, to never kill > peopleillegally again.b. Promise to the world, publicly, to stop sending > weapons to anyone.c. Promise to the world to start obeying the rule of law, > internationallaw, and the UN Security Council.* > > p.s > Stick to these promises. > !!! *I think this answer/reply couldn't be written better.Thank you very much Zenaan. From me and from many "silent", but smart people on this list.* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 18001 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dreamingforward at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 12:21:58 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 14:21:58 -0500 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: >> - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? > > Your pro-commie propaganda? CNN? Who to believe? Try getting out and traveling. You can experience reality without believing anything. Then you can formulate differing opinions into new synthesis of understanding. Understand that concept from Hegel, it can enlighten you. \0x From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 11:28:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 14:28:56 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/results?q=dylan+noble+body+cam The mentioned "kid shot in Fresno" releases and assorted LE / family interviews and commentary for eval above. From jnn at synfin.org Sun Jul 17 11:38:01 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 14:38:01 -0400 Subject: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board In-Reply-To: References: <57870A8C.3070906@riseup.net> <57873979.8244b00a.24fc.0c17@mx.google.com> <5787A3B0.8010403@riseup.net> <5787e311.e935ed0a.e1e8e.8381@mx.google.com> <57883383.9070705@riseup.net> <57883a9f.9d3bed0a.5356c.d31e@mx.google.com> <57883EBF.9040001@riseup.net> <5788420a.91c3370a.bee34.d20b@mx.google.com> <5788559B.1000609@riseup.net> <5788824C.2090907@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:50 AM, grarpamp wrote: > > On 7/15/16, John Newman wrote: >> Wtf is or was so important about Appelbaum that would lead to any kind of >> massive conspiratorial smear campaign? Who gains from taking him down? > > On both... Are you fucking kidding me? > > Even before Snowden censored himself and Assange got locked down... > He's one of the outspoken few that was still out traveling around the world > bringing knowledge of Tor / privacy / human rights / surveillance etc the > whole scope... with zero fear and a solid compelling presentation based > on personal conviction and experience. Others at Tor mostly stayed > to the conference rooms, he was transcending personal rooms even > before joining Tor... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo > > Here he is talking on the subject with a roomful of Muslims in Quwait... > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTcpVBqy9Dc > Right on. I obviously didn’t keep abreast of all the important Applebaum-works (I don’t watch a whole lot of youtube videos, I prefer reading). I run a little tor relay, lurk on a couple of tor lists, am constantly hacking my fork of roundcube to work better with GPG, etc… but basically I've always had more of an interest in the technical details. So apparently I missed some important shit. As I already said to Zen - thanks for filling me in :P P.S. All sarcasm/snide bullshit aside - do you really think Applebaum is of the same level of importance to the things you mention - privacy / human rights / surveillance state, etc, as Julian Assange or Ed Snowden? Snowden may have clammed up but he got a lot of good shit out there. Likewise they have tried to clam Assange up but he keeps on pumping shit out. — john -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 526 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 12:11:06 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 15:11:06 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4t9vdm/3_baton_rouge_police_officers_just_shot_developing/ """ d5fr7am Oh for fucks sake, the news has been really bad over the last two weeks. First it was, "ISIS truck bomb in Iraq kills almost 300 people", then "Black army veteran kills 5 police in Dallas in sniper style attack", then "Lorry attack in Nice kills 80+" and "Coup attempt in Turkey kills more than 200". Now this. """ http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/house-passes-most-significant-mental-health-reform-bill-decades-n611106 https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4tacwq/house_passes_most_significant_mental_health/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-07-13/eyewitness-who-filmed-alton-sterlings-death-suing-baton-rouge-police http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/11/alton-sterling-witness-cops-took-my-phone-my-surveillance-video-locked-me-up.html https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4t4g34/boy_age_12_arrested_in_alleged_plot_to_shoot/ From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 05:37:29 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 15:37:29 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > What causes our blindness? > ... > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? Your pro-commie propaganda? CNN? From dreamingforward at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 13:53:32 2016 From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 15:53:32 -0500 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: In what sense was it rhetorical? Do you think he wasn't wondering what or whom to believe amidst conflicting stories? It's not a simple question when the media bombards you with it. And, sorry, Hegel is likely the only answer as it incorporates the scientific method as well as EVERY OTHER. Was there another? \0x On 7/17/16, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 17, 2016 4:28 PM, "Xer0Dynamite" wrote: >> >> Who to believe? Try getting out and traveling. You can experience > reality without believing anything. Then you can formulate differing > opinions into new synthesis of understanding. >> >> Understand that concept from Hegel, it can enlighten you. > > Mark, > > Georgi was making a rethorical question only. And, sorry, in my opinion, > Hegel is not the best answer. I tried it when I was a pretentious > teenager. Now, I am just pretentious, hihi... ;) > > (But not so much as Zenaan, ugh!) > > Take care! > > - c. > From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 06:06:30 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:06:30 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717130630.GB687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:37:29PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > What causes our blindness? > > > ... > > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? > > Your pro-commie propaganda? > > CNN? In addition, do your "world views" make you blind? IMHO, the majority of your posts on this lists boil down to: u$a bad (true IMHO), russia good (false IMHO). From peter at m-o-o-t.org Sun Jul 17 08:08:41 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:08:41 +0100 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B94B5.4010805@m-o-o-t.org> References: <578B94B5.4010805@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <578B9F79.7040301@m-o-o-t.org> On 17/07/16 12:48, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Please, if you want to contribute to comprehending this new UK act, you > will need to slow it waaay down, because you are writing conclusions, > assumptions, with minimal quotes from the act, and making assertions > based on these foundation things, and these foundation things are > contradictory, and your conclusions are contradictory. > > Perhaps it's the British way, or perhaps the intention behind the > passing of this Act is so nefarious, that the only way they could pass > it was to be as obtuse, opaque and contradictory as it is, so that, > ultimately, they (the parliament and those behind it - "the Lords > spiritual and the Lords temporal") can wreak their mischief on the > 'unsuspecting' people. Being kind, you might say they put a good face on it. Being more realistic, they try and mostly succeed in slipping it through with the nastier parts unnoticed. That's what they did with RIPA, the previous act. Oh, and afaict there are no contradictions anywhere in what I have said. > Peter, if your intention be genuinely "pro" the people and "pro" human > rights or at least "pro" understanding/comprehending, my assessment is > that so far, you are diving into the trap this Act sets and intends for > you - i.e. that you be "unsuspecting" of evil intentions behind it, > trusting in the government, trusting in those who drafted it, trusting > in your "Lords temporal" - If you think I trust any of them, you are sadly mistaken. The Lords however are slightly better than the Home Office, who write the bills and tell their patsies in the Lords and Commons what to say the bills mean - which is frequently quite different to what they actually mean. However I am expert - repeat expert - in reading the actual damn Bills, and working out what they actually say. Better than the members of the Lords or Commons, better than the politicians who tell the Home Office cunts what to put in the Bills, better than the DPPs who apply them - most of whom don't read the actual Bills, just summaries, because the Bills are so complicated - and I am approaching as good as the people who write the damn things. If I don't go through all the details here it's just because the bills are so obscure and complex it would take megabytes and days of arguments. Then you would have to know the general legal framework behind the wording of a Bill, and the general legal framework of the UK, before knowing what it meant. And even then you might occasionally be surprised by a decision, some Judges just make stuff up as they go along, and not everything which should be appealed is. But you are welcome to read it yourself, it is available at: www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0040/17040.pdf Enjoy! -- Peter F From peter at m-o-o-t.org Sun Jul 17 08:08:50 2016 From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:08:50 +0100 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B944B.80308@m-o-o-t.org> References: <578B944B.80308@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <578B9F82.6030904@m-o-o-t.org> On 17/07/16 12:37, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > First part: > >> Thing is, while the Bill isn't good, it doesn't have anything at all to do >> with banning end-to-end encryption. Or banning any sort of encryption. > > > Second part: > >> It can require "relevant operators" to maintain some backdoors, most >> obviously in mobile link encryption and some VPNs and other encrypted links >> which are operated by "relevant operators". >> >> Less obviously, it can be applied to some websites and the like. > > > Third part, which is really the first part repeated, for kicks: > >> But there is no power to ban encryption anywhere in the Bill. > > > TADAAA!!! > > > And the winner is - no one! This is sad. The bill is sad. Your > interpretation is self contradictory. Err, how? The bill gives powers to require some backdoors [1], but it doesn't ban encryption in any form. Or do you think some types of mandatory backdoors and banning encryption are the same thing? [1] The HS doesn't control the backdoors, the "relevant operators" do. The HS can require "relevant operators" to maintain the capability to decrypt encryptions which they apply - but it doesn't say anything about banning encryption which other people apply, or banning encrypted communications where other people have done the encryption As for doing the impossible and maintaining the capability to decrypt encryptions other people have applied, if you can't do it, you can't do it. There is no need or duty to do the impossible. [...] >> If you as a private person apply the encryption yourself, there is no power >> in the Bill to make you backdoor it (though there have been powers in RIPA >> to enforce demands for keys in some circumstances since 2001), and there is >> no power to prevent you from using encryption. > > OK, I'll help out here - read this paragraph just above again, then > without blinking (I'm serious now) read the following paragraph three > times: > >>>> "Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in >>>> the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any >>>> telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person >>>> providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in >>>> or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of >>>> communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a >>>> system." > > I'm getting lazy, so I'm going to trust you to point out to us, in > simple terms, your own contradiction, e.g. how a commieputer program > running on my phone, and talking to Juan or Applebaum's phone which is > likewise running the same program, how this program for example could be > considered to be encompassed by "any service", with me, running that > program as the "relevant operator" of my telemaphone, which service so > operated consists of provision (to me the operator, likewise to Juan or > Appelbaum at the other end as mentioned) of "access to" or at the very > least "facilitates for making use of" a certain "telecommuniscations > system" provided by my ISP/Telco (and likewise by/for Juan or Applebaum > at the other end as previously mentions), and further which program > manages the latency of, facilitates the creation of the connection, and > optionally stores for the operator the data thereby transmitted, or that > may be transmitted next time I operate this sytsem, my means -of- the > system. > > Again, I'll leave it to you to point out such an example for the benefit > of our loyal, deserving and patronising readers. You are not *providing* a service. You may well be using one, but you are not providing one. Therefore you are not a "relevant operator", and that part of the Bill does not apply to you. You have to read these things carefully. You might argue otherwise, that maybe you are providing a service to yourself. Stranger things have happened, but I very much doubt any UK Court would agree with you. And even if by some dark and unlikely miracle a Court decided you are providing a service, and are therefore a "relevant operator", what might happen? The Home Secretary serves a Notice (which she signs with her own withered hand) on little old you, personally, requiring you to maintain the capability to decrypt your own comms. At some later point, after you have returned the Notice for reconsideration and she has consulted the relevant committees, Judge etc, and then sent it back to you, she might require you to decrypt some comms. If you failed to do so because you have not maintained the capacity, she could then institute civil proceedings for an injunction to make you maintain that capacity in future. But she can't send you to jail, or fine you, for having failed to maintain that capability. However the last four paragraphs are just fantasy, because you are not providing a service, and therefore you are not a "relevant operator". If you don't get it, I think the Bill is ugly, evil, stupid, invasive, disproportionate and generally sucks big time - but it has fuck all to do with banning encryption. -- Peter Fairbrother From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 06:45:26 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:45:26 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:03:15PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:37:29PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > What causes our blindness? > > > > > ... > > > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > ... > You must only believe my ANTI-commie propaganda! That other stuff I spew > out is highly suspect at the best of times... Well, didn't you just write that "beliefs" cause blindness? And want me to "believe" you? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 12:49:59 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:49:59 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578be0b9.c99f370a.b5430.4429@mx.google.com> On Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:17:17 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > The development of the toolkit is supported by Hivos, Internews, Sida, > EIDHR, Oak Foundation, Sigrid Rausing Fund, AJWS, Open Society > Foundations, Ford Foundation. That's a laundry list of 'progressive' fascists, who certainly don't overlook this mailing list as a propaganda outlet. > Special Thanks to The Citizen Lab, the Guardian Project, Riseup, the > Tor Project & EFF laundry list of 'pro-privacy' scumbags fully aligned with the project of their fascist bosses. thanks grarpamp for the updates on what your side is up to. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 12:52:36 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:52:36 -0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Jul 17, 2016 4:28 PM, "Xer0Dynamite" wrote: > > Who to believe? Try getting out and traveling. You can experience reality without believing anything. Then you can formulate differing opinions into new synthesis of understanding. > > Understand that concept from Hegel, it can enlighten you. Mark, Georgi was making a rethorical question only. And, sorry, in my opinion, Hegel is not the best answer. I tried it when I was a pretentious teenager. Now, I am just pretentious, hihi... ;) (But not so much as Zenaan, ugh!) Take care! - c. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 716 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 07:08:08 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 17:08:08 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > To those who intentionally perpertrate deception, confusion, lies and > evil, may the warriors of sanity tear your evil words to shreds! > Amen, brother. Georgi Guninski wrote: > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? > Your pro-commie propaganda? I can't believe i read such a boolshit comment from a human being with mind. Zenaan wrote ... teared his chest apart and took out his heart, put it down in front of all of us in this comment/essay (and not only here).. and what do we see? Such a superficial, stupid, arrogant comment. > the majority of your posts on this lists boil down to: > u$a bad (true IMHO), russia good (false IMHO). Again. super-superficial super-boolshit that was written by a man without mind and heart/soul. EMPTINESS. Hope the "silent" readers are much much more "human" than this kind of stupidity, or more precisely - absolute emptiness. __ *Zen, never reply to this kind of comments. It's pure trolling and conscious attempt to hurt you. That's it.* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1297 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 14:04:56 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:04:56 -0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:02:20 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Perhaps we can agree on the following: > > 1. I have posted a lot of pro-Russia articles. > > 2. Before today I had not clarified in simple terms my belief that > Russia is the only reason BRICS could be created, and the only reason > other nations have the guts to stand together against the attacks from > the USA. We can argue/agree that having an alliance against the US is a good thing, in the short term at least. However... > Putin rescuing Russia from destruction as a nation, is a good thing? ...however, to go from the general idea of russia and china counterbalancing the anglo-american nazis to saying that putin is a great guy is...totally unwarrented. As a matter of fact, I can argue that putin is a lot more friendly to his alleged 'western' enemies that he pretends to be. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 14:08:58 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:08:58 -0300 Subject: Comic Book "Religion - Ruining Everything Since 4004 B.C." Message-ID: "Religion - Ruining Everything Since 4004 B.C." ​ by Zach Weinersmith.​ ​The c​ ute comic book ​ that I mentioned yesterday​ ​. It was licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0. :)​ https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_4J_wOx6q78WHkwaUd5YzEzbFk/view?usp=sharing ​ ​Forgive me for using the Google Drive for sharing it! :P Remember: Christianity is the religion of forgiveness. And if you don't believe that, you can burn in a pit of fire for all eternity! :) If you like Zach's work, visit his site, with lots of fun and interesting comics: http://www.smbc-comics.com He is a lovely guy and some of his messages to Kickstarter were really delicious. I think he will appreciate your visit. Warm hugs! Take care, everybody! <3 Cecilia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2106 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 14:24:03 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:24:03 -0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Xer0Dynamite wrote: > In what sense was it rhetorical? Do you think he wasn't wondering > what or whom to believe amidst conflicting stories? It's not a simple > question when the media bombards you with it. > > And, sorry, Hegel is likely the only answer as it incorporates the > scientific method as well as EVERY OTHER. Was there another? > ​Yes, Mark. There are several methods. Search about, please. It will be good for you. You are the kind of guy who prefers to ask about "little bits" in public lists, instead searching more about electronics. They have great kits, but for children only. You are too big for them. After your studies, I will be happy if could help you. Take care. - c. ​ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1598 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 08:40:15 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:40:15 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-07-17 17:59 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > I am hearing > George's heart here > Oh, you just told Peter not to "throw" illusions on others... not to see good where there is total absence of it... and... TADAM. George's heart, Zen?! Please! I (and any observer with 1 mg mind and heart) can see in his comments/trolling NO heart (even no mind), but a heap of... you know what. . ​ -- *भक्ति ПРЕДАННОСТЬ друг другу! भक्ति* *ϟ БОРЬБА СО ЗЛОМ друг во имя друга! **ϟ* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2206 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 08:50:01 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 18:50:01 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717155001.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 01:24:29AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > grarpamp, what I believe or say ultimately shouldn't matter --to the > > things that are important to you personally--. > > Sorry, mixed up who I was replying to - grarpamp, George, blah blah Try again to guess to whom you were replying, not that this matters to you I suppose. From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 09:34:35 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 19:34:35 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717160831.GC16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> <20160717155001.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717160831.GC16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717163435.GE687@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 02:08:31AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > People matter to me. Individuals matter to me. My principles matter to me. > Did you notice you miZZpelled my name about 5 times, ZenUUn? Rejecting "authority", while trolling for Russia? Isn't she YOUR AUTHORITY? From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 04:03:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 21:03:40 +1000 Subject: Fwd: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717110340.GK16437@x220-a02> You flatter me too much; I give thanks for my existence - these bodies and this world are just amazing. And I ask my fellow humans for patience, tolerance and forgiveness for my many failings. I am certainly glad when able to share a moment of clarity, and grateful to those who clearly point out any failings as I present such... it's a long journey being human, and we share this little old world together. Kind regards, Zen On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 07:50:20AM +0300, Александр wrote: > A very good example of a Lie (by Peter Fairbrother) and a further precise > exposure of the contradictions within the Lie (by Zenaan). > > P.s > For future attempts by liars: > So apparent contradictions in the lie itself... you know, Peter/mr. X... it > doesn't add too much authenticity to it. However, there is still a chance > that a superficial sheeple will swallow it. > But thanks God, we've got Zenaan :) From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 04:37:47 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 21:37:47 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <20160717113747.GL16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 09:28:49AM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > On 17/07/16 02:42, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 06:02:57PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > >>On 16/07/16 09:28, Georgi Guninski wrote: > >>>Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > >>>noisy. > >>> > >>>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > >>> > >>>>UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > >>> > >>>Very sound, nice and democratic... > > > >First part: > > > >>Things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, have > >>approximately zero legal significance. To a very close approximation. > >>Practically speaking, indistinguishable from zero. > >> > >>What the Courts look at is the wording of the Act. > >> > >>Which in this case is pretty bad, but not a power to ban end-to-end > >>encryption. > >> > >>In fact, it doesn't affect most in-use forms of end-to-end encryption at > >>all. > > > >Second part: > > > >>"Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in > >>the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any > >>telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person > >>providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in > >>or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of > >>communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a > >>system." > >> > >>That would include many commercial sites who use SSL/TLS. If you put a > >>"contact me" link on your web pages, you are a "relevant operator". Gimme > >>your SSL keys! > > > >I'm not sure how you can say the first part above, in the face of > >quoting and saying what you do in the second part. > > > >>That's what the Bill actually says, if you read it carefully. Like RIPA, it > >>is opaque beyond the point of obscurity, and it takes a lot of reading. > > > >You quoted the relevant part, thank you. That part does not take much > >reading to see how bad it truly is, even though the rest (unquoted) of > >the bill may be massively opaque. > > Actually, just finding that in the Bill wasn't easy - and it isn't a single > part, it's taken from at least five different places in the Bill. If it > seems clear, then I did a good job putting them together. Jolly good show ole chap! Jolly good show... Listen up everyone, we have a humble servent of thee who doth provide copious work products for thy glory and satisfaction. Please, do think of the humble! Here we go round the mulberry bush, the muleberyy bush, da mulled bree bush, here we go ... ahem, ok, ok, I'll stop there. Here we go again - now watch closely, I'll only do this once; it's a magic trick see, so if I do it twice, it spoils the fun. Now: First part: > Thing is, while the Bill isn't good, it doesn't have anything at all to do > with banning end-to-end encryption. Or banning any sort of encryption. Second part: > It can require "relevant operators" to maintain some backdoors, most > obviously in mobile link encryption and some VPNs and other encrypted links > which are operated by "relevant operators". > > Less obviously, it can be applied to some websites and the like. Third part, which is really the first part repeated, for kicks: > But there is no power to ban encryption anywhere in the Bill. TADAAA!!! And the winner is - no one! This is sad. The bill is sad. Your interpretation is self contradictory. Your quotes are clear. The clarity iluciferdated is appreciated. You contra conclusions are a weird kinda magic trick. But hey, feel free to keep saying black is white - at least I'm enjoying it :D > If you as a private person apply the encryption yourself, there is no power > in the Bill to make you backdoor it (though there have been powers in RIPA > to enforce demands for keys in some circumstances since 2001), and there is > no power to prevent you from using encryption. OK, I'll help out here - read this paragraph just above again, then without blinking (I'm serious now) read the following paragraph three times: > >>"Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in > >>the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any > >>telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person > >>providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in > >>or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of > >>communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a > >>system." I'm getting lazy, so I'm going to trust you to point out to us, in simple terms, your own contradiction, e.g. how a commieputer program running on my phone, and talking to Juan or Applebaum's phone which is likewise running the same program, how this program for example could be considered to be encompassed by "any service", with me, running that program as the "relevant operator" of my telemaphone, which service so operated consists of provision (to me the operator, likewise to Juan or Appelbaum at the other end as mentioned) of "access to" or at the very least "facilitates for making use of" a certain "telecommuniscations system" provided by my ISP/Telco (and likewise by/for Juan or Applebaum at the other end as previously mentions), and further which program manages the latency of, facilitates the creation of the connection, and optionally stores for the operator the data thereby transmitted, or that may be transmitted next time I operate this sytsem, my means -of- the system. Again, I'll leave it to you to point out such an example for the benefit of our loyal, deserving and patronising readers. > >>Good points? Only encryption which has been applied by a "relevant > >>operator" is affected - > > > >So something is good, or potentially good - let's find out what: > > > >>at least until the Home Secretary makes regulations > >>otherwise (which under the Bill she can do). > > > >In other words, the bill doesn't automatically affect the status quo of > >existing websites (website certificates?) because, well who knows, > >that's the current interpretation but tomorrow's interpretation can just > >as well be "hand over your keys bitch, or you're going to jail" even if > >you are Facebook or Google (though the "going to jail" bit, if it were > >possible, would be a good outcome for Facebook for example ... alas, I > >dream)! > > > >And the determination of who has to hand over keys (i.e. who is a > >"relevant operator") is nothing more than whatever the Home Secretary > >(currently female it seems) > > Yep, we have a brand new female Home Secretary. The old one is now Prime > Minister ... > > (and she's madder than Mad Maggy Thatcher ever was 8-( > > says! Perhaps next week is her bad week of > >the month and your free speech website (nicely TLSed with personally > >issued and in person verified certificate provider keys etc) happens to > >have a discussion which pushes her (the Home Secretary's) trigger word > >buttons. > > > >And you say this is GOOD?! > > > >WTF? Am I misunderstanding something here? > > I was not clear - while the HS can extend the notices to eg include other > forms of encryption (I'll assume those particular forms of encryption are those particular forms of encryption not covered by the Act of course, since as you so magnanimously pointed out, the Act does not ban any end to end encryption.) > not applied by "relevant operators", she cannot serve > notices on, or force any other obligation on, anyone except "relevant > operators". Ahh ok, so so long as I am not added to her unilaterally designated and completely hidden (for national security purposes of course) "no fly" list, whoops sorry, I mean "may not end to end encrypt" list, i.e. as long as I am not designated as a terrorist, whoops sorry again, I mean "relevant operator", which I am not entitled to know about, and for which, if I were so designated, either individually or as a class, say "those humans who have subscribed to cypherpunks list, made a phone call to Iraq or Syria, made any donation to Greenpeace (those bloody terrorists), or used the Tor Browser Bundle, attended a Communist Party event, participated in an Occupy protest, or have any family member who protested against Vietnam war, Falklands war, Afganistan war, the cold war or any other way, then I should be ok to keep using end to end encryption? > If you are a private citizen and you aren't providing a service, Which for example if I am running Linphone in a VM on CyanogenMod on my mobile handset, I could never be "considered to be providing or operating or managing and potentially providing access to" any "telecommunications service" to myself, with or without "conference room" audio facility to connect a few Libyans in a conference call, or ... Can you see the picture? > she can't prevent you from doing any encryption you like, > nor can she make you backdoor it. As long as ALL of the above conditions are met, and ALL of the conditions we have not yet thought of are met, by me, then I should be A-OK, she'll be right mate, just end to end encrypt right on brother... right? > PGP is okay, Woah! Awesome. Thanks Peter for your legal interpretation of that Act and its exemption for PGP! Come on guys, now swap out libtorcrypt.so and plug in libgpgcrypt.so instead - Peter tells us that'll be A-OK and we'll all get a free ticket for facilitating our end to end voice, text, chat and video calls to any and all, right around the world! Jump on the Free Train - We live in a dee-mock-crass see? Sing it brother, we are SAVED! Sing it from the hill tops! > and there's not a thing in the Bill which says she can do > anything to ban it. Phew! Pete, brother, you really had me going there for a while I really thought we were all fucked.. > Neither can she stop people using SSL/TLS, or except in the case of some > UK-based servers, mandate backdoors in it. Ahh ok, so as long as Juan or Applebaum don't run their phone directory and voice service daemon on their mobile handset, in the geographic territory called UK, only THEN are we all ok. Shit, I dunno WHAT to believe. Peter, you make it so confusing? > She could in theory serve a notice on Google, Apple or Facebook - but in > practice, none of these would actually be obligated to obey it. Because they could never be classified by her as relevant operators - only terrorist would ever be so classified. Ladies, and, Gentlemen! We have conclusion! > >Sounds as good as North America's endless extra-judicial drone killings > >(that's murder, and despotic, in case it's not otherwise obvious to > >you). > > > >>Bad points? It doesn't do anything at all against the clued-up terrorist or > >>criminal. It decreases security for legitimate actors and businesses. > > > >You say that as though there are good points, see above. > > > > > >>BTW, things said in the Lords (or Commons), even by Government spokesmen, > >>have approximately zero legal significance. What the Courts look at is the > >>wording of the Act. > > > >Thanks for quoting the relevant part of the act, and letting us know > >that the definitions for "relevant operator"s will be handed down extra- > >judicially by the Home Secretary. > > err, no - that one is defined in the Bill, she can't change the meaning of > "relevant operator". > > She can change some of the things she requires "relevant operators" to do - > but if you aren't a "relevant operator" she can't require you to do > anything. Wellllll ... Peter ... you certainly cleared all that up. The bill only applies to relevant operators, which could never be Facebook or Google, probably could never be end user operators, unless possibly their bodies are physically located in the UK, but it's likely the new Act would apply to terrorist, but we're not sure, we do no it will likely harm Facebook and Google, but it doesn't apply to them because no court would ever uphold that they are relevant operators. Peter, we mere humans are eternally grateful. Please, do come again... From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 04:48:32 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 21:48:32 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <20160717114832.GN16437@x220-a02> > I was not clear - while the HS can extend the notices to eg include other > forms of encryption not applied by "relevant operators", she cannot serve > notices on, or force any other obligation on, anyone except "relevant > operators". > > If you are a private citizen and you aren't providing a service, she can't > prevent you from doing any encryption you like, nor can she make you > backdoor it. > > PGP is okay, and there's not a thing in the Bill which says she can do > anything to ban it. > > Neither can she stop people using SSL/TLS, or except in the case of some > UK-based servers, mandate backdoors in it. > > She could in theory serve a notice on Google, Apple or Facebook - but in > practice, none of these would actually be obligated to obey it. You sir, receive the award from The Ministry of Truth! In all seriousness, you need to read, re-read, and read again, that which you write. I will assume for now that you are well intentioned, but take notice, as the old saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Please, if you want to contribute to comprehending this new UK act, you will need to slow it waaay down, because you are writing conclusions, assumptions, with minimal quotes from the act, and making assertions based on these foundation things, and these foundation things are contradictory, and your conclusions are contradictory. Perhaps it's the British way, or perhaps the intention behind the passing of this Act is so nefarious, that the only way they could pass it was to be as obtuse, opaque and contradictory as it is, so that, ultimately, they (the parliament and those behind it - "the Lords spiritual and the Lods temporal") can wreak their mischief on the 'unsuspecting' people. Peter, if your intention be genuinely "pro" the people and "pro" human rights or at least "pro" understanding/comprehending, my assessment is that so far, you are diving into the trap this Act sets and intends for you - i.e. that you be "unsuspecting" of evil intentions behind it, trusting in the government, trusting in those who drafted it, trusting in your "Lords temporal" - I urge you to be not so trusting, and you may find it easier to home in on the keys, finding that clarity which is implied in your attempt to bring to others the meaning, intentions and consequences of this Act of the UK parliament. Colloquially (again) - FFS WAKE UP! From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 05:13:45 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 22:13:45 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention Message-ID: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> When we see someone that we want to say "come in spinner" to, our first duty is to assume good intention. When we don't see what is horrific, that which is an abomination to human, an abomination to righteousness, and we see someone justifying it, qualifying it, basically being "apologetic" for it, it is too easy to see mal intent. However, the road to hell has a lot of paving. It is by the hand of our fellow humans that the many and varied well paved roads to hell, are so well paved! This affects us all! The snow jobs that are presented, the blindness, can be interpreted in different ways. Everyone has the opportunity, should they carpe diem, to wear a different hat when that hat is presented. To myself folks have kindly (usually) said "Hey Zenaan, that's pretty harsh" and "hey Zenaan, you're jumping to conclusions" and "oi Zenaan, you're raking someone over the coals, and they don't deserve it" and "Zenaan, you are emotionally vehement about this pet theory of yours, do you truly have any facts behind it", and far too many times folks have been right, and on those times I am able to wear another hat, to see my own blindness, I am very grateful (at least, sometimes, after licking my perceived wounds for a few days or weeks). What causes our blindness? - a desire to believe in our government/ system - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views - a belief in my/ my tribe's (my nation's) superiority - a "hippy" or fatalistic belief that "it all works out eventually, everyone's just doing their best, so it's all ok" But it's not all ok. There is much that is so very, very wrong. So wrong and so bad, it is evil in action. Unethical beyond belief. North America's incarceration rate of predominantly black people, mostly for purported "crimes" that harm no one, not a single person (e.g. smoking a bit of weed, selling a bit of weed, not paying a parking fine and being caught a few times with a "disqualified driver license" as a result, and doing 18 months jail the second and third times this then happens again). Men and women lose their jobs as a result of such evil. Single separated parents are unable to travel to see their children (withe the other parent) as a result of such evil. Families are broken up as a result of such evil (the bloke loses his license, cannot lawfully drive to work, loses his job, loses his sense of dignity, family breaks up.) We humans collectively via our tacit consent of our "democratic" governments, bring hell down on our neighbours, or on "other people in other suburbs who -must- be somewhat bad or they would not be in jail". We are so desperate to find "the evil out there" that a mere allegation of rape or pedophilia causes us to jump on a public lynch train. We are so bound in our "lives" that we vote over and over again for the mainstream political parties who are compromised in all ways and who continue the endless litany of murder by empire, day in, day out. We humans are fundamentally shameful, unable to break the chains of our schooling and programming, deceiving ourselves that the words used in an Act mean something other than what they say, hoping beyond fact, hoping beyond all evidence that our "government" is there to do (at least some) good. Violation of human rights, when instituted in statute, demonstrates an evil, on the record of the governments own Act. Here in Australia, us Aussies say about our GST tax "oh well, the government needs money to run, oh well, it's worse in other countries, oh well, the money is used for schools and hospitals" and yet the act says "The commissioner of taxation may deem an event that did not happen as having happened, and an event that did happen as having not happened, or may deem that an event that happened, actually happened at a time other than when it actually happened". And the people pay. The people consent. Yet more so, the people become apologists, trying to defend the indefensible "someone has to pay for the roads, that why we have road tolls" or "PGP gets an exemption" or "people die in cars, that's we have to have RFID sat tracking state issued driver licenses". We, humans, defend the indefensible. Scraping the barrell for some sanity where there is none. Assuming good intention in words which demonstrate evil intention, demonstrate the intention to remove human rights, intention to grant to the executive (government "officials") the power to demonically deem black to be white, truth to be falsity, falsity to be truth, and anyone they don't like to be a terrorist. When you accept the indefensible, even tacitly by doing no action in opposition, you contribute a little bit to that evil. When you try to defend the indefensible, it is a bit worse, because you lead others astray - the busy, the tired, those who might trust you without reading in depth, those who are unable to read, those who are naturally influenced by the "charisma" of someone speaking publicly. Better to say nothing, than to lead others astray. I am so very grateful when others have pointed out my bullshit - it's a small mercy, and much better than my bullshit prevailing. To those who care, let's lift our game! We can do better. To those who intentionally perpertrate deception, confusion, lies and evil, may the warriors of sanity tear your evil words to shreds! From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 06:03:15 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 23:03:15 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:37:29PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > What causes our blindness? > > > ... > > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? It's a question for introspection, not so much a question for answer. I saw a rather muddled and contradictory interpretation of a recent UK "anti end to end encryption Act", and the question is, what questions can we ask ourselves, or suggest to one another, to help each other "wake up"? The rest is just noise sorry - I'll try to be clearer next time. > Your pro-commie propaganda? Oh absolutely not - true drivel! You must only believe my ANTI-commie propaganda! That other stuff I spew out is highly suspect at the best of times... > CNN? Ummm... I'm not American, so I'll leave it to someone who has experienced whatever this CNN thing is that you speak of... but good luck anyway, if you're seeking believable propaganda, I know this bloke who speaks rather highly of something also known as direct democracy - I think it was called anarchism or something. He's pretty brash, and you might find yourself wanting to kill file him here and there, but his propaganda is top notch, that's for sure!!! Definitely believable, and I reckon it's worth believing too... ... ... can't remember his name just yet ... it'll come to me though, and when I do, I'll be sure to pass it on. Well worth the bother I say... From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 06:53:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 23:53:46 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717130630.GB687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130630.GB687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717135346.GR16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 04:06:30PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:37:29PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > What causes our blindness? > > > > > ... > > > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > > > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? > > > > Your pro-commie propaganda? > > > > CNN? > > In addition, do your "world views" make you blind? Very unlikely I am not blind to many things. Tis a sad state of affairs which I sincerely wish to improve on. > IMHO, the majority of your posts on this lists boil down to: > > u$a bad (true IMHO), russia good (false IMHO). What I -do- say is that USA is a global bullying hegemon, and highly despotic in its actions, and absolutely must be stopped if at all possible (preferably peacefully, but if that does not happen, it is possible we will be unfortunate to experience some form of war - international (very unfortunately if so) or perhaps a domestic civil war - but really, when that US dollar dissolves, which can't be far off looking at debt interest payments vs GDP/tax collection, perhaps America will just stop being aggressive to the world, and finally start to focus on fixing their own problems internally - we can only hope). And as to Russia - especially in the light of Saddam and Qaddafi's results of trying to shift the petro dollar system (acting in their respective national interests, and thereby weakening USA's ability to bully the world), ought we be grateful that Russia is still standing, and moreso leading the charge of a different world (multi polar) system? Would China have spearheaded BRICS? Never! Would Brazil or any of the South American countries have had the ability to do it? South Africa? Anyone else? No country was able to stand for an alternative system (alternative to hegemonic North America), without Russia - does this not seem indisputable? Is any system which says "no" to unilateral bullying and unilateral debt and inflation exportation (of USA, to the rest of the world, via their petro dollar) a "good" thing for the rest of us? It seems so to me... (PS And so it seems to me we should be -very- grateful to Putin - Russia would have fallen without someone of his standing - but I think it takes a -lot- of reading to determine this (his actual words, both Russian AND Western propaganda, as well as the on lookers from Pepe Escobar, to Saker, to Germany's points of view to plenty more - without a great deal of deep diving, it is almost impossible to escape the Western MSM narrative; just my high opinion of course).) (PPS Step 1: save the Russian nation, done; Step 2, handle USA, this is in progress and will be for a while yet, unfortunately; Step 3, when the day comes that USA is handled, then there might be space in peoples' consciousness to once again consider experimenting with utopian communities, enclaves and possibly mini Rojava-sized nations; in the meantime, how can we stop USA acting so vilely, so despotically, day in and day out? Is this not the only question of significance to the world today? ) From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 07:39:08 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:39:08 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 04:45:26PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:03:15PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:37:29PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 10:13:45PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > What causes our blindness? > > > > > > > ... > > > > - attachment to our own beliefs/ world views > > > > ... > > > You must only believe my ANTI-commie propaganda! That other stuff I spew > > out is highly suspect at the best of times... > > Well, didn't you just write that "beliefs" cause blindness? And want me > to "believe" you? Please! Find your own center! Do you have a conscience (serious question)? If so, what is it that --your-- conscience says is right, and says is wrong? Feel free to ask me what I believe, or think you "should" believe, or what can we do, or whatever, but ultimately the only thing that matters in this world is your own inner authority - what YOU choose to do and effect into this world as best you can! You can answer that question here, or hold it as a precious candle of righteousness inside yourself - that is always up to you - but choose wisely, foster that which is good and righteous inside yourself, do what you can to strengthen that part of yourself that is good for the world! Seriously, we (and I include myself here) in "the West" are truly schooled in various things which mostly disempower us and cause us to be really fucked up in a few fundamentals. Here are just two of them: 1) We humans seek external authority. grarpamp, what I believe or say ultimately shouldn't matter --to the things that are important to you personally--. In school from a terribly young age we "yes sir" and "no sir" and accept our punishment of detention when we rebel against the insanity, inanity and motivation-destroying environment that is "school" - 45 minutes and BANG there goes the fire bell! OFF to another class for you NO MATTER how engrossed you are in the current subject - even if you FINALLY managed to clear you mind just a little, start reading or start actually contemplating or juggling a thought or two but NO! PACK YOUR GEAR SON AND GET TO THE NEXT CLASS, you gotta change topic NOW!! And you obey. Because you have no option. Your parents sent you there. Everyone else obeys. We are schooled to obey. Except some drop out and or fail to learn even to read and write. But we learn that we must obey EXTERNAL authority! The school bell. The teacher. The parents. The police officer. The government. The think tank. So, grarpamp, do NOT project your authority onto me! Seriously STOP! For this world to have ANY hope of getting better, you must live your own authority. Of course this means you first find your authority, within yourself. All I can do is ask a question or two, post a hopefully provocative anti-pro-commie link to kick your brain, all Juan can do is try to point out a possible attachment you have to your government or a particular implied or explicit belief you seem to have and ask you (rhetorically) "grarpamp, do you really want to keep holding that belief?" Sometimes perhaps we should be asked by a Juan or a John "can you see what I see about what you say?" There is no perfect question! It is our own, individual job to wake up - we must do our part if we are to have any -hope- of waking up or at least seeing something we did not see before! You see, when you get caught up in "oh that's just propaganda" or "Juan you offended me I'm kill filing you", you are a sheep, lost in personality, lost in self pity, some sense of hurt or shame or pride or some other bullshit. Piss it off! Same goes for me - I've been caught up too many times in what I perceived as personal attacks on me SO many times its bloody embarrassing in hindsight. And next. I've witnessed my aggression towards others when I felt I was "unfairly" treated, jibed, dismissed or attacked - one or two incidents of this (my reactive aggressive towards another individual) have brought upon myself many years of personal heart pain. Life's a bitch - or rather, I've been a bitch, and I just hope people forgive me here and there, and that I catch myself more as I go forward, before I blurt out some hurtful or bullying statement. Memories can tear us apart, so I try to transform them into positive action arising from my conscience. Might not be much... but I try... Embrace the clarity that Juan thinks he brings for me (mostly) it looks like clarity - if you can't see it, and are blinded by some bullshit sense of personal injury, Fuck that off bro! The pity pot ain't useful for fixing this world! Seriously, who gives a rat's arse what Juan or I or anyone think about you? But truly, if you read between the lines, it looks to me like Juan really cares about you. Few go to such lengths as he does to say "dude, do you hear yourself!" Sure, you don't have to agree with him (or me, or anyone), you might think he's wrong, hell he might be wrong! Who cares? STOP TAKING IT PERSONALLY! We don't have time for that! "What is it I might not be seeing?" Most everyone round these parts (besides the CIA and USA apologists) is actually wanting and hoping that we might glean some new nugget to help us and others help this world, to help stop the evil that USA gov is perpetrating... Others use the list to dump their brain, to try to get clarity through feedback, to try to uncover some evil or potential problem presenting itself some place on the glove. Many just look and listen. It is heartbreaking to witness what's happening in the world, but we cannot look away, we must continue ... 2) We humans project our own nature onto others. Example: if we are 'lustful yet guilty feeling', we (humans) tend to assume most/ all others are lustful and guilty feeling - classic problem in relationships where partner A has an awesome partner B; partner B is vivacious, socially and sexually confident and matching the natural desires and appetite of partner A, and is naturally charismatic, so when in public, partner B is happy to flirt and "be cheeky" whilst knowing at all times they are faithful to their partner A since they are trustworthy and therefore trust themselves as well as their partner A; yet despite such an awesome partner B, partner A cannot cope because they themselves are insecure and sexually guilt-laden due to their "Church umbrella" upbringing, so they distrust partner B, they PROJECT onto partner B, the insecurities and lack of strength that they feel themselves, and far too often, for such reasons, partner A breaks off the relationship! So (Peter I'm looking at you on this one :) stop projecting on your "leaders" in your "democratic UK government" that just because they "debate" a new Act, don't assume it is an Act which has good intention behind it, don't assume that the words that can be taken to have meanings that clearly actively against our interests, "might not really be against us, or here's hoping" - that way lies madness and the well paved roads to hell! Just because -you- have good intentions, don't assume others do. Of course, assume good faith, but --vigorously-- test their bullshit (including mine of course!) in case they have bad intention. If they truly have good intention, they will thank you and fix up their bullshit, if they don't, they are either terminally schooled, or active against our interests. Good luck, From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 17 23:52:11 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:52:11 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> On 07/17/2016 01:17 AM, grarpamp wrote: > https://securityinabox.org/en/about > http://bpo4ybbs2apk4sk4.onion/ It doesn't mention Whonix! WTF? Or even anything about preventing leaks, except a warning about Orweb (0.6.1 and older). There's a section on COMODO Firewall with links about iptables and OSX apps, but the focus is entirely on defense against malware and hacking. This would not have protected people against FBI attacks on users of Freedom Hosting and PlayPen. If FBI does that shit, do you think that NSA doesn't? Or that your other favorite evil TLAs don't? Sad :( From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 07:59:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:59:57 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> > > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > To those who intentionally perpertrate deception, confusion, lies and > > evil, may the warriors of sanity tear your evil words to shreds! > > > Amen, brother. > > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > Well, if I don't believe in my world view, whom to believe? > > Your pro-commie propaganda? > I can't believe i read such a boolshit comment from a human being with mind. > Zenaan wrote ... teared his chest apart and took out his heart, put it down > in front of all of us in this comment/essay (and not only here).. and what > do we see? Such a superficial, stupid, arrogant comment. Oh it is too easy to be harsh. I have been harsh much too much in the past (not so distant past too I might add - apologies again). To get to clarity inside ourselves is a long journey. I am hearing George's heart here - perhaps just a bit lost in his head, that is all. I get very lost in mine, far too often :/ Better perhaps to cut each other a little more slack - that's what I want for myself anyway. Passion is good, defence of good intentioned people who are being attacked is also good. I ask myself: how can we accomplish these goals, and make sure we help build up people who are wanting to be "good" by grokking their own conscience, finding their own center, and hopefully eventually acting in the world without just paving another road to hell. May be not easy, but all we have is each other. Need to expand the field of those who might act to help the world, as much as possible. > > the majority of your posts on this lists boil down to: > > u$a bad (true IMHO), russia good (false IMHO). > Again. super-superficial Well, it is a genuine viewpoint, and I have not exactly posted much "negative" stuff about Russia. I see and agree that there is some negative stuff about Russia (some of the corrupt regional governors are finally getting a few lessons, but I assume there are quite a few more out there - hopefully they get the message and live a higher game going forward - we can only hope; also the backdoor for all encryption and ISPs must store all data for X period of time - it's pretty bad stuff, unfortunately). I said it before, but: on a whole-world scale, I think the world desperately needs a counter-force to USA. It is my firm opinion, in the face of the attempts by Saddam and Qaddafi (Qaddafi was deceived big time after his help to USA after 9/11, another despotic USA double cross and back stabbing - absolutely despicable!) to sell their oil in Euros (not Dinars, Euros mind you!) and the consequences thereafter, that Russia is the only man standing between USA hegemony, and a slightly software multi polar world. SO, strategically, we ABSOLUTELY NEED Russia. Who else can stop the hegemon? Even Russia cannot stop the hegemon by herself, but China, Brazil, and other countries were willing to take a stand behind Russia. How can we not be grateful for this? Brazil and other countries have since taken a beating, China keeps getting threatened, Russia is under eternal sanctions and her allies and buffer zones are being attacked and undermined, but together these nations are standing against the bully, the United States of America. Together they are still standing, despite the multitudinous attacks on the global south! I really, really hope that this stand against the global bully that is the USA, continues, and prevails. I hope that the USA hegemony falls - no matter the cost to North America or her allies, since the devastating cost that the USA is wreaking upon the world is unforgivable! The USA's actions over the last endless years, continuing today, day in and day out, is unforgivable! The hegemon must be brought down. (Sorry for being so wordy!) (PS Alex, thank you for your heart and your passion - what I thought was obvious, and is obvious to you, was evidently not so obvious.) From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 08:12:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 01:12:46 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B918D.8010508@m-o-o-t.org> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578A68C1.6070504@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717014238.GZ16437@x220-a02> <578B41C1.6060506@m-o-o-t.org> <20160717113747.GL16437@x220-a02> <578B918D.8010508@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <20160717151246.GV16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:09:17PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > On 17/07/16 12:37, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > >First part: > > > >>Thing is, while the Bill isn't good, it doesn't have anything at all to do > >>with banning end-to-end encryption. Or banning any sort of encryption. > > > > > >Second part: > > > >>It can require "relevant operators" to maintain some backdoors, most > >>obviously in mobile link encryption and some VPNs and other encrypted links > >>which are operated by "relevant operators". > >> > >>Less obviously, it can be applied to some websites and the like. > > > > > >Third part, which is really the first part repeated, for kicks: > > > >>But there is no power to ban encryption anywhere in the Bill. > > > > > >TADAAA!!! > > > > > >And the winner is - no one! This is sad. The bill is sad. Your > >interpretation is self contradictory. > > > Err, how? > > The bill gives powers to require some backdoors [1], but it > doesn't ban encryption in any form. Peter, I think you need to read up on what is a "backdoor", what is "encryption" and how they relate to each other, and therefore how your persistent statement that the Act "doesn't ban encryption" is either a folly to say on your part (I'm only just still assuming) or an intentional furfy (hard for me to believe anyone knowledgeable would try that on this list, since everyone on this list (I assume) has no trouble identifying the folly in your many conflicting statements. Have you done any computer programming? If not, that would be a really good thing for you to do - there are some very nice languages and programming environments (IDEs, REPL shells etc) compared to what we had in our day, so it should be an enjoyable, and hopefully enlightening experience for you. There's no point repeating the mulberry bush roundabout, since it's about to get frustrating for me (and probably already has for most of the kind and patient folks on this cp list whom are probably quite a bit cleverer than you or I). Chalk this one up to a learning experience Peter and let it go for now - your enthusiasm is a good thing, but when it comes to communications security, your lack of understanding is very, very dangerous to those need actual security and who mistake your authoritative words for actual authority and actual understanding on your part - that's a dangerous thing for those who need communications security, you would be in some cases putting actual lives at risk. Stop that. Learning is fun - enjoy the ride. > Or do you think some types of mandatory backdoors and banning encryption are > the same thing? > > > [1] The HS doesn't control the backdoors, the "relevant operators" do. > > The HS can require "relevant operators" to maintain the capability to > decrypt encryptions which they apply - but it doesn't say anything about > banning encryption which other people apply, or banning encrypted > communications where other people have done the encryption > > As for doing the impossible and maintaining the capability to decrypt > encryptions other people have applied, if you can't do it, you can't do it. > There is no need or duty to do the impossible. > > [...] > > >>If you as a private person apply the encryption yourself, there is no power > >>in the Bill to make you backdoor it (though there have been powers in RIPA > >>to enforce demands for keys in some circumstances since 2001), and there is > >>no power to prevent you from using encryption. > > > >OK, I'll help out here - read this paragraph just above again, then > >without blinking (I'm serious now) read the following paragraph three > >times: > > > >>>>"Relevant operators" are persons who provide "any service that consists in > >>>>the provision of access to, and of facilities for making use of, any > >>>>telecommunication system (whether or not one provided by the person > >>>>providing the service) [... including] any case where a service consists in > >>>>or includes facilitating the creation, management or storage of > >>>>communications transmitted, or that may be transmitted, by means of such a > >>>>system." > > > >I'm getting lazy, so I'm going to trust you to point out to us, in > >simple terms, your own contradiction, e.g. how a commieputer program > >running on my phone, and talking to Juan or Applebaum's phone which is > >likewise running the same program, how this program for example could be > >considered to be encompassed by "any service", with me, running that > >program as the "relevant operator" of my telemaphone, which service so > >operated consists of provision (to me the operator, likewise to Juan or > >Appelbaum at the other end as mentioned) of "access to" or at the very > >least "facilitates for making use of" a certain "telecommuniscations > >system" provided by my ISP/Telco (and likewise by/for Juan or Applebaum > >at the other end as previously mentions), and further which program > >manages the latency of, facilitates the creation of the connection, and > >optionally stores for the operator the data thereby transmitted, or that > >may be transmitted next time I operate this sytsem, my means -of- the > >system. > > > >Again, I'll leave it to you to point out such an example for the benefit > >of our loyal, deserving and patronising readers. > > You are not *providing* a service. You may well be using one, but you are > not providing one. Therefore you are not a "relevant operator", and that > part of the Bill does not apply to you. > > You have to read these things carefully. > > > > > You might argue otherwise, that maybe you are providing a service to > yourself. Stranger things have happened, but I very much doubt any UK Court > would agree with you. > > And even if by some dark and unlikely miracle a Court decided you are > providing a service, and are therefore a "relevant operator", what might > happen? The Home Secretary serves a Notice (which she signs with her own > withered hand) on little old you, personally, requiring you to maintain the > capability to decrypt your own comms. > > At some later point, after you have returned the Notice for reconsideration > and she has consulted the relevant committees, Judge etc, and then sent it > back to you, she might require you to decrypt some comms. > > If you failed to do so because you have not maintained the capacity, she > could then institute civil proceedings for an injunction to make you > maintain that capacity in future. > > But she can't send you to jail, or fine you, for having failed to maintain > that capability. > > > However the last four paragraphs are just fantasy, because you are not > providing a service, and therefore you are not a "relevant operator". > > > > If you don't get it, I think the Bill is ugly, evil, stupid, invasive, > disproportionate and generally sucks big time - but it has fuck all to do > with banning encryption. > > > -- Peter Fairbrother -- Free Australia: www.UPMART.org Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly warranted. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 08:24:29 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 01:24:29 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> > grarpamp, what I believe or say ultimately shouldn't matter --to the > things that are important to you personally--. Sorry, mixed up who I was replying to - grarpamp, George, blah blah blah... I need sleep. Apologies again... anyway, let's read the messages that speak to our hearts, and not get so caught up in who said exactly what to whom - how is that gonna help the world? PS: YOU pick the messages that YOU think are relevant to YOU. How much clearer can I say it? Find your own authority already.. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 08:42:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 01:42:52 +1000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B9F79.7040301@m-o-o-t.org> References: <578B94B5.4010805@m-o-o-t.org> <578B9F79.7040301@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: <20160717154252.GY16437@x220-a02> Peter, there is absofuckinglutely NO way I will EVER accept your desire for me to cow before your authority of interpretation of this despotic UK bill/Act!!! You seriously lack self awareness of how I hear the words that you keep writing, in particular the words in your email below. You may live in the UK in a circle of folks who accept your authority. I am not one of them. Your attempt to impose your authority will succeed with many of the people, most of the time, because most Western humans are extremely schooled, and almost exclusively externalise their authority! This is a fucking shame!!! And even the folks on THIS list struggle with the conversation!!!! We are the fringe so-called "anarchists" who bash all governments at every opportunity, crave a world where individual authority ("sovereignty") is respected above most other things! And here you come, to a crypto, anarchist, email mailing list, and say the things you say below, and the things you say in your other emails. You, Peter Fairbrother, are either seriously messed up and intensely lacking in self awareness, bombastic in your expectation that others submit to/ accept your authority by fiat of your own words (so who the fuck are you?!??), or you are intentionally trolling us! Either take a deep breath and go learn to code and read a pschology primer, or if you can't take the hint, leave this list. Leave us the hell alone since your words are very dangerous to onlookers such as a potential future whistleblower who actually needs to come to grips with the UK jurisdiction and how to cope inside the physical boundaries of that jurisdiction. The useful part of the discussion is you quote which apparently (I hope you are accurate) assembles the relevant bits from the act, which we and other security minded folks DO need to know about. That's useful and thanks. Other than that, you don't know what you're talking about. So take your presumption of authority, and try to put that to a constructive use. You are presently a fair way away from being constructive in this conversation. On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 04:08:41PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > > On 17/07/16 12:48, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > >Please, if you want to contribute to comprehending this new UK act, you > >will need to slow it waaay down, because you are writing conclusions, > >assumptions, with minimal quotes from the act, and making assertions > >based on these foundation things, and these foundation things are > >contradictory, and your conclusions are contradictory. > > > >Perhaps it's the British way, or perhaps the intention behind the > >passing of this Act is so nefarious, that the only way they could pass > >it was to be as obtuse, opaque and contradictory as it is, so that, > >ultimately, they (the parliament and those behind it - "the Lords > >spiritual and the Lords temporal") can wreak their mischief on the > >'unsuspecting' people. > > Being kind, you might say they put a good face on it. Being more > realistic, they try and mostly succeed in slipping it through with the > nastier parts unnoticed. > > That's what they did with RIPA, the previous act. > > Oh, and afaict there are no contradictions anywhere in what I have said. > > >Peter, if your intention be genuinely "pro" the people and "pro" human > >rights or at least "pro" understanding/comprehending, my assessment is > >that so far, you are diving into the trap this Act sets and intends for > >you - i.e. that you be "unsuspecting" of evil intentions behind it, > >trusting in the government, trusting in those who drafted it, trusting > >in your "Lords temporal" - > > If you think I trust any of them, you are sadly mistaken. > > The Lords however are slightly better than the Home Office, who write > the bills and tell their patsies in the Lords and Commons what to say > the bills mean - which is frequently quite different to what they > actually mean. > > However I am expert - repeat expert - in reading the actual damn Bills, > and working out what they actually say. > > Better than the members of the Lords or Commons, better than the > politicians who tell the Home Office cunts what to put in the Bills, > better than the DPPs who apply them - most of whom don't read the actual > Bills, just summaries, because the Bills are so complicated - and I am > approaching as good as the people who write the damn things. > > > > If I don't go through all the details here it's just because the bills > are so obscure and complex it would take megabytes and days of arguments. > > Then you would have to know the general legal framework behind the > wording of a Bill, and the general legal framework of the UK, before > knowing what it meant. And even then you might occasionally be surprised > by a decision, some Judges just make stuff up as they go along, and not > everything which should be appealed is. > > But you are welcome to read it yourself, it is available at: > > www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0040/17040.pdf > > Enjoy! > > -- Peter F > > > > > > -- Free Australia: www.UPMART.org Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly warranted. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 09:02:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:02:20 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 06:40:15PM +0300, Александр wrote: > 2016-07-17 17:59 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > > > I am hearing > > George's heart here > > > Oh, you just told Peter not to "throw" illusions on others... not to see > good where there is total absence of it... and... TADAM. > George's heart, Zen?! > Please! I (and any observer with 1 mg mind and heart) can see in his > comments/trolling NO heart (even no mind), but a heap of... you know what. You may be right. I do not know him, nor what is in his mind/ his true intention. Perhaps he really intends to troll me. It is possible I could deserve that - I'm just a human, all humans are fallible. Perhaps I used less than the best words and should say "I am hoping to hear his heart" - perhaps that is clearer, perhaps not. Perhaps I am naieve and gullible, I don't know for sure. Perhaps we can agree on the following: 1. I have posted a lot of pro-Russia articles. 2. Before today I had not clarified in simple terms my belief that Russia is the only reason BRICS could be created, and the only reason other nations have the guts to stand together against the attacks from the USA. You see when I read George's words I read what I considered to be a "genuine bafflement" - as in, he was sort of asking me "dude, are just trolling us or what?" - that's certainly been suggested before. So since this "are you trolling?" keeps coming at me, then my next thought was "to me it seems obvious I'm not - I am trying to present relevant facts" - but relevant to what? Why is it that I say that Putin rescuing Russia from destruction as a nation, is a good thing? And then I had the "ahah!" moment and thought: I guess I haven't clearly stated my thesis of "a) USA vs the world, and b) Russia gives balls to the other countries" thesis. I hope it was useful for someone ... George perhaps. PS It's not fair for me to hide my thesis, to just assume everyone thinks the way I do, and from this point of view, it was a fair call (in my mind) for George to call me on it - perhaps there are other things I take for granted that make me look like a nut job, perhaps there always will be. I don't get much feedback see, so without George challenging me, I would not have been pushed to consider that may be I was withholding my viewpoint. From s at ctrlc.hu Sun Jul 17 17:03:51 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:03:51 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <63A554BC-2012-49F2-8FB9-E10E26E7115B@synfin.org> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <63A554BC-2012-49F2-8FB9-E10E26E7115B@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160718000351.GA6938@ctrlc.hu> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:52:42PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > Your sites SSL cert install is fucked up. > Chaining issue I think, install the intermediary cert. nope: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.ctrlc.hu it's a CACert and it uses sha1 for the signature hash algo, call it sentimentality, but it takes some time for me to part with this beautiful idea, that sadly died. i guess i'll have to jump on the next SOP (letsencrypt), which by it's success became a much juicier target than CACert ever was. there'll be an update soon for this cert. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 09:08:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:08:31 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717155001.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> <20160717155001.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160717160831.GC16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 06:50:01PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 01:24:29AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > grarpamp, what I believe or say ultimately shouldn't matter --to the > > > things that are important to you personally--. > > > > Sorry, mixed up who I was replying to - grarpamp, George, blah blah > > Try again to guess to whom you were replying, not that this matters to > you I suppose. People matter to me. Individuals matter to me. My principles matter to me. Making a mistake of which name it was supposed to be at that particular moment, is almost completely irrelevant, as long as there is a willingness to fix the mistake and move on. We have bigger problems to worry about, like many daily extra-judicial killings all around the world but the USA government which pretends it is "democratic". From s at ctrlc.hu Sun Jul 17 17:18:49 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:18:49 +0200 Subject: [OT] Where are your public keys people? In-Reply-To: <20160718000351.GA6938@ctrlc.hu> References: <671121468389490@web22o.yandex.ru> <20160713064453.GR6938@ctrlc.hu> <63A554BC-2012-49F2-8FB9-E10E26E7115B@synfin.org> <20160718000351.GA6938@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <20160718001849.GA30751@ctrlc.hu> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 02:03:51AM +0200, stef wrote: > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 01:52:42PM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > Your sites SSL cert install is fucked up. > > Chaining issue I think, install the intermediary cert. > > nope: > https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.ctrlc.hu > > it uses sha1 for the signature hash algo, err, md5 -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 18 03:45:19 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> On 07/18/2016 03:55 AM, stef wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:52:11AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/17/2016 01:17 AM, grarpamp wrote: >>> https://securityinabox.org/en/about >>> http://bpo4ybbs2apk4sk4.onion/ >> >> It doesn't mention Whonix! WTF? > > most of this is pre-snowden stuff, there has been little updates in the last > few years. it's quite a bit of work not only to maintain this (new screenshots > for changing UIs over the years) and then also translating all this in all the > languages in which it is available. dunno if ttc had attracted more funding to > update siab lately. I guess. But damn, an up-to-date English version makes more sense to me. >> This would not have protected people against FBI attacks on users of > > i contributed to siab but i stopped recommending it 1-2 years ago, as i have > similar concerns as you regarding the material. Sad. >> Freedom Hosting and PlayPen. If FBI does that shit, do you think that >> NSA doesn't? Or that your other favorite evil TLAs don't? > > the clients of the above linked material are usually (sadly) aligned with the > interests of US foreign policy. and just like with tor (also the basis for > whonix as you surely know) i'm not surprised the US is sponsoring something > they can break, but provides some cover for the pawns in their geopolitical > interests. My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable by design. But I've become increasingly concerned by the continuing emphasis on Tor browser (easy to install but easily compromised) and omission of Whonix (harder to install but much harder to compromise). It is arguable that ease of use trumps strong protection, in that there's greater net benefit. But less charitably, maybe the need for numerous users to hide among trumps everything else. From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 18 07:24:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 07:24:42 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> On 07/17/2016 11:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > This sounds compelling and conclusive. Let's see. > Good news for Syrian nationalism, not good news for Kurdish project. > You've got to explain... HOW can an ISIS-enabling Islamist be "Good news for Syrian nationalism..."? Perhaps you didn't read what you wrote before hitting the send button", or perhaps you mean something quite different than what most people understand as "Good news". Rr > > > > Hell Hath No Fury Like a Teflon Sultan > > "For all practical purposes Erdogan now controls the Executive, the > Legislative and the Judiciary – and is taking no prisoners to purge the > military for good." > > Pepe Escobar > > http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160717/1043158581/erdogan-turkey-coup.html > > (Alt: > http://russia-insider.com/en/hell-hath-no-fury-teflon-sultan/ri15659 > ) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 21:40:20 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 07:40:20 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160718034726.GF16437@x220-a02> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718034726.GF16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Zen, you swallowed their provocations which misled all the discussion toward "putin VS us"/ oh, you misspelled my naaaame ;( / another bullshit -> which is NOT the issue here at all. Reread your first-core comment/essay which began all this thread and you'll see this total misdirection they lead you to-> which you are swallowing here instead of ignoring. You violated the balance (you know what i'm talking about) and all this became a squash + vast lost of energy for you. And here i will quote Jesus Christ: *"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine"* I want to protect you, so i write it to you (again) - STOP this conversation. You wrote in a perfect manner your first essay/statement. The others - Guninski's trollings/ AND almost empty OR MISleading comments by others ... -> thus all this thread became casting pearls before pigs (and those who are the pigs - know whom i'm talking about. and i'm not talking only about those who write, but who read too). *So... STOP. Please STOP, my precious friend.* Take a contrast shower. Go for a walk. Listen to good music. Read some good poetry/something abstract. Watch some good old movie. Take a good sleep. Give some rest for your body and soul. And try to be "quite" for a few days (at least). You don't have the "duty" to answer ANY provocation/arrow/bullshit somebody writes (and in many cases even good point). You have a duty TO POINT something important out. And that's what you did by opening this thread and writing from the depth of your heart. All the rest is stupid loss of precious energy and feeding the conscious evil or just stupid people-pigs here. And that's not your intention if you are not crazy. Your Brother, A. ___ P.S Everything what's written here refers NOT ONLY to this thread alone. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2022 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 22:46:28 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:46:28 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160718054628.GA686@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 06:04:56PM -0300, juan wrote: > > Putin rescuing Russia from destruction as a nation, is a good thing? > > ...however, to go from the general idea of russia and china > counterbalancing the anglo-american nazis to saying that putin > is a great guy is...totally unwarrented. > > As a matter of fact, I can argue that putin is a lot more > friendly to his alleged 'western' enemies that he pretends to > be. Probably we are even more screwed up if the world is owned by common oligarchs and the usa vs. russia is just a reality show for the masses. The fall of socialism in europe and russia happened in a strange way IMHO. From guninski at guninski.com Sun Jul 17 22:49:00 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:49:00 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160718054900.GB686@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 02:21:58PM -0500, Xer0Dynamite wrote: > Who to believe? Try getting out and traveling. You can experience > reality without believing anything. Then you can formulate differing > opinions into new synthesis of understanding. > > Understand that concept from Hegel, it can enlighten you. > Probably you are right. To countertroll myself, If I am a sheeple, by my logic I will believe in a manipulated sheeple. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 05:24:42 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:24:42 -0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718034726.GF16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Zenaan and Alexander, It's fun in some moments, but I decided to avoid feeding dumb trolls. Time and patience are very limited resources, so it probably will be my last message for you both. You are really boring, meh! :( Sorry, I don't respect dumb, stupid and pretentious people, with a huge complex of superiority and an ego bigger than Putin's baldness. But if you both want to complain about who has the biggest ego, please, always remember: - I am fabulous, b¡tches. You both are donkeys, I am a colorful unicorn. You walk, I parade. You will be dust, I will be glitter! <3 Hahaha!! Just joking for the lulz, but remember I am a professional troll and you both are begginners and not so smart. ;) I am not a pig, but I prefer being juicy, tasty bacon than repulsive Vegemite. And I really love pearls. They look great with dresses and high heels. Very classy! <3 At least, I am really happy, because Zenaan finally stopped writing me in private and copying me in every stupid message sent to a person of this group. It was ridiculous and non sense, but he spent more than a month to perceive he was being ignored and/or rejected. Very slow and disgusting guy, ugh! :((( Happy oink, oink for you both! (ˆ(oo)ˆ) Cecilia, adopting Zen Chinchilla Philosophy from now on, hihi... ;) PS 1: - A person who really cares about another person, at least, try to write correctly their name. The problem was not misspelling Georgi's name, but showing you simply don't care about him, even after spending zillions of words trying to prove you really care about others. Pure contradiction. "D'oh!" again, slow guy. PS 2: - You probably will appreciate the "Zen Chinchilla Philosophy", Mirimir. Some years ago, I adapted an idea just to annoy a stupid guy and used a chinchilla as example. It worked well, but I should write a "Zen Chichilla Manifesto" just for fun. You know, I am so cute as a chinchilla. But - thank God! - not so furry, haha!! ;D Repeating: - Please, if I die in the next days, tell everybody that all these disgusting and repetitive messages licking Putin's b at lls, ignoring all the Russian government's fails, and against "The West", "The Empire", etc, etc, killed me with infinite and painful boredom, ugh! It's a cruel torture, a real crime against the humanity! :P But, well, everything in Australia wants to kill you. Aparently, also Zenaan, even when pretending to be an eternal misunderstood victim of society's ignorance. Oh, poor Zen! :'( https://www.yahoo.com/style/everything-in-australia-wants-to-kill-you-photo-by-126005221362.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2950 bytes Desc: not available URL: From s at ctrlc.hu Mon Jul 18 02:55:23 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 11:55:23 +0200 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:52:11AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/17/2016 01:17 AM, grarpamp wrote: > > https://securityinabox.org/en/about > > http://bpo4ybbs2apk4sk4.onion/ > > It doesn't mention Whonix! WTF? most of this is pre-snowden stuff, there has been little updates in the last few years. it's quite a bit of work not only to maintain this (new screenshots for changing UIs over the years) and then also translating all this in all the languages in which it is available. dunno if ttc had attracted more funding to update siab lately. > This would not have protected people against FBI attacks on users of i contributed to siab but i stopped recommending it 1-2 years ago, as i have similar concerns as you regarding the material. > Freedom Hosting and PlayPen. If FBI does that shit, do you think that > NSA doesn't? Or that your other favorite evil TLAs don't? the clients of the above linked material are usually (sadly) aligned with the interests of US foreign policy. and just like with tor (also the basis for whonix as you surely know) i'm not surprised the US is sponsoring something they can break, but provides some cover for the pawns in their geopolitical interests. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 20:38:54 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:38:54 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160717163435.GE687@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717143908.GS16437@x220-a02> <20160717152429.GX16437@x220-a02> <20160717155001.GD687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717160831.GC16437@x220-a02> <20160717163435.GE687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160718033854.GD16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 07:34:35PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 02:08:31AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > People matter to me. Individuals matter to me. My principles matter to me. > > Did you notice you miZZpelled my name about 5 times, ZenUUn? Picked up the points I consider important here eh? Is my apology and correct spelling of Georgi now that I've had a few hours sleep, going to help stop USA from killing people every day, like today, and tomorrow, and every day thereafter? > Rejecting "authority", while trolling for Russia? Isn't she YOUR AUTHORITY? Can't make sense of this bit. Who's authority did I reject? From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 20:41:45 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:41:45 +1000 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160718034145.GE16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:11:06PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4t9vdm/3_baton_rouge_police_officers_just_shot_developing/ > > """ > d5fr7am > Oh for fucks sake, the news has been really bad over the last two > weeks. First it was, "ISIS truck bomb in Iraq kills almost 300 > people", then "Black army veteran kills 5 police in Dallas in sniper > style attack", then "Lorry attack in Nice kills 80+" and "Coup attempt > in Turkey kills more than 200". Now this. > """ Well, the leader of "the free world" (North America) keeps killing people day in day out, so it must be ok, that's just what happens, so that's wuts gunna keep happening... U S A !! U S A !! From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 20:47:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:47:26 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160718034726.GF16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 06:04:56PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 02:02:20 +1000 > Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > Perhaps we can agree on the following: > > > > 1. I have posted a lot of pro-Russia articles. > > > > 2. Before today I had not clarified in simple terms my belief that > > Russia is the only reason BRICS could be created, and the only reason > > other nations have the guts to stand together against the attacks from > > the USA. > > We can argue/agree that having an alliance against the US is a > good thing, in the short term at least. However... > > > > > Putin rescuing Russia from destruction as a nation, is a good thing? > > ...however, to go from the general idea of russia and china > counterbalancing the anglo-american nazis to saying that putin > is a great guy is...totally unwarrented. > > As a matter of fact, I can argue that putin is a lot more > friendly to his alleged 'western' enemies that he pretends to > be. And I'd agree with you. Putin sure wanted and tried hard over many years to create an alliance with the west, and genuine state-level economically mutually beneficial "partnership", with perks of "fighting the same 'bad' guys together". Over and over he kept/ keeps getting snubbed - so yes, the lack of any rapproachment between Russia and USA is certainly not for want of Russia trying... Perhaps this failure of USA to get in bed with Russia is a better long term outcome; I suspect so. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 20:53:35 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:53:35 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160718035335.GG16437@x220-a02> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 04:52:36PM -0300, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Now, I am just pretentious, hihi... ;) > > (But not so much as Zenaan, ugh!) Just call me Mr Subtle... my humility should precede me, so better you drum it home for those who miss the point, how humble I really am - quite amazing really... From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 18 04:11:01 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:11:01 +0300 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) Message-ID: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) This was intended as reply to juan's reply, but deserves another thread. juan claimed the chinese are against 'merica. i thought that the chinese are the main 'merica public debt creditor, but can't find reference for this on the interwebz. Partial results: CNN [sic] http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ | Who owns America's debt? | Donald Trump says he can "make a deal" on America's debt. | Last week, he implied that he could negotiate with America's creditors to get them to accept a lower rate of repayment, such as 85 cents for every dollar. | The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of the debt. | China's share of the debt is sizable -- about 7% -- but it's hardly the largest holder of U.S. government bonds. What do you expect from 'mericuns? They are creditors of themselves, lol. And they "negotiate" paying less... Though the chinese give mericuns virtual money, they don't mind stealing from them: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/hacker_gets_46_months_cooler_time_for_shipping_f35_f22_secrets_to_pla/ | Chinese national Su Bin has been sentenced to 46 months jail after admitting his role in stealing information on the Lockheed F-22 and F-35 aircraft, along with Boeing's C-17 cargo plane. | The hacker admitted reports detailing the stolen data were sent to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army General Staff Headquarters. From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 22:09:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 15:09:10 +1000 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: References: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718034726.GF16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160718050910.GH16437@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:40:20AM +0300, Александр wrote: > Zen, you swallowed their provocations which misled all the discussion > toward "putin VS us"/ oh, you misspelled my naaaame ;( / another > bullshit -> which is NOT the issue here at all. Reread your first-core > comment/essay which began all this thread and you'll see this total > misdirection they lead you to-> which you are swallowing here instead > of ignoring. Important reminder of one of my many shortcomings, thanks. > You don't have the "duty" to answer ANY provocation/arrow/bullshit > somebody writes (and in many cases even good point). Another good point to remind me. Thanks. > You have a duty TO POINT something important out. And that's what you > did by opening this thread and writing from the depth of your heart. > All the rest is stupid loss of precious energy and feeding the > conscious evil or just stupid people-pigs here. And that's not your > intention if you are not crazy. Let's remind the most important question: What can we do, collectively and or individually, to help to stop the North American human killing machine? Most else pales into significance. I am much too wordy most of the time - sorry abou that. It would be much better if I could say in one paragraph what takes me 10 pages. Regards, From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 17 23:02:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:02:40 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> This sounds compelling and conclusive. Let's see. Good news for Syrian nationalism, not good news for Kurdish project. Hell Hath No Fury Like a Teflon Sultan "For all practical purposes Erdogan now controls the Executive, the Legislative and the Judiciary – and is taking no prisoners to purge the military for good." Pepe Escobar http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160717/1043158581/erdogan-turkey-coup.html (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/hell-hath-no-fury-teflon-sultan/ri15659 ) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 12:42:14 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:42:14 -0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160718054628.GA686@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717121345.GO16437@x220-a02> <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718054628.GA686@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578d3062.1724c80a.9d11c.e098@mx.google.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:46:28 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 06:04:56PM -0300, juan wrote: > > > Putin rescuing Russia from destruction as a nation, is a good > > > thing? > > > > ...however, to go from the general idea of russia and china > > counterbalancing the anglo-american nazis to saying that > > putin is a great guy is...totally unwarrented. > > > > As a matter of fact, I can argue that putin is a lot more > > friendly to his alleged 'western' enemies that he pretends > > to be. > > Probably we are even more screwed up if the world is owned by common > oligarchs and the usa vs. russia is just a reality show for the > masses. I think it partially is. > > The fall of socialism in europe and russia happened in a strange way > IMHO. Strange, how? Care to elaborate? I would say that the 'hardcore' socialism of eastern europe/the URSS morphed into something more similar to the 'polite' socialism that rules 'the west'. A look at the economy of the US, the leading 'capitalist free market' of the universe easily shows that the control that the government and its cronies have over the economy is complete. Power is concentrated in a few hands, just like in the good old URSS. From my point of view, although there's been a nominal fall of socialism, 'democratic' socialism rules everywhere. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 12:57:32 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:57:32 -0300 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:11:01 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) > > This was intended as reply to juan's reply, but deserves > another thread. > > juan claimed the chinese are against 'merica. Not exactly. I am well aware that the chinese oligarchs are in bed with western oligarchs to...various extents. I said it would be a good thing if russia/china opposed the US, but it's not something that's happening to any serious degree, I'd say. > > i thought that the chinese are the main 'merica public debt > creditor, Which means that the working chinese have been forced by their own government to finance the americunt-wall-street financial mafia. Good for goldman-sachs. Bad for Mr. Li. > but can't find reference for this on the > interwebz. > > Partial results: > > CNN [sic] > http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ | Who > owns America's debt? > > | Donald Trump says he can "make a deal" on America's debt. > > | Last week, he implied that he could negotiate with America's > creditors to get them to accept a lower rate of repayment, such as 85 > cents for every dollar. > > | The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such > as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the > Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of > the debt. Governments 'lending' money to themselves, which seems pretty absurd, simply means that they keep printing billions out of thin air. Need money? Just print it! Isn't socialized banking amazing. > > | China's share of the debt is sizable -- about 7% -- but it's hardly > the largest holder of U.S. government bonds. > > What do you expect from 'mericuns? They are creditors of > themselves, lol. And they "negotiate" paying less... Yeah, all creditors are equal, but some creditors are more equal than others. Some creditors are going to lose more than others... > > Though the chinese give mericuns virtual money, they don't mind > stealing from them: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/hacker_gets_46_months_cooler_time_for_shipping_f35_f22_secrets_to_pla/ > > | Chinese national Su Bin has been sentenced to 46 months jail after > admitting his role in stealing information on the Lockheed F-22 and > F-35 aircraft, along with Boeing's C-17 cargo plane. Stealing from the biggest thieves on the world? =) > > | The hacker admitted reports detailing the stolen data were sent to > the Chinese People’s Liberation Army General Staff Headquarters. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 14:39:53 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 18:39:53 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable by > design. keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully satisfied yet. From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 18 19:54:19 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 19:54:19 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> On 07/18/2016 04:33 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:24:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> >> On 07/17/2016 11:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> This sounds compelling and conclusive. Let's see. >>> Good news for Syrian nationalism, not good news for Kurdish project. >>> >> You've got to explain... HOW can an ISIS-enabling Islamist be "Good news >> for Syrian nationalism..."? > Because Syria is Russias very long term national partner, and Turkey is > also making up with Russia. ISTM that Turkey will back off completely > now and stop sending the jihadis to Syria. That's because the plan changed. The US and Russia are going to divvy up Syria now. Partition time. OFC that won't happen overnight, but it's now inevitable. > > Could be wrong of course, but I don't think Russia would accept > rapproachment if Turkey keeps fighting Syria. I.e., Erdogan will have > his hand in the Russian Turk Stream money pot, and will give up Syrian > ISIS oil smuggling trade in return - he will make MUCH more money > shipping Russian gas, then laundering ISIS oil. Just pragmatism. > That's great for Turkey (barring the scenario I presented above), but I don't see that it's in any way good for "Syrian nationalism"... ....and that was the question at hand. As far as your other missive's link goes: Erdogan Taunts Obama Over Coup Attempt in Turkey Erdogan will not forgive the Obama administration for leading him up the garden path on Syria, convincing him that Washington was leaving no stone unturned to overthrow the Assad regime http://atimes.com/2016/07/erdogan-taunts-obama-over-turkeys-coup-bid/ Erdogan's hand is ISIS, and they're already all over Europe thanks to the Russian AF rout, and they ARE mixed in with the refugee population, and they HAVE terrorized those refugees to not talk, and IF Erdogan doesn't get a BIG part of the Syrian Partition pie... Selah... Rr > >> Perhaps you didn't read what you wrote >> before hitting the send button", or perhaps you mean something quite >> different than what most people understand as "Good news". >> >> Rr >> >> >>> >>> >>> Hell Hath No Fury Like a Teflon Sultan >>> >>> "For all practical purposes Erdogan now controls the Executive, the >>> Legislative and the Judiciary – and is taking no prisoners to purge the >>> military for good." >>> >>> Pepe Escobar >>> >>> http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160717/1043158581/erdogan-turkey-coup.html >>> >>> (Alt: >>> http://russia-insider.com/en/hell-hath-no-fury-teflon-sultan/ri15659 >>> ) >>> >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3991 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From seanl at literati.org Mon Jul 18 15:50:10 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 22:50:10 +0000 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 1:00 PM juan wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:11:01 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) > > > > This was intended as reply to juan's reply, but deserves > > another thread. > > > > juan claimed the chinese are against 'merica. > > > Not exactly. I am well aware that the chinese oligarchs are in > bed with western oligarchs to...various extents. > > I said it would be a good thing if russia/china opposed the US, > but it's not something that's happening to any serious degree, > I'd say. > The Chinese are pro-China, but they recognize that the US is a very large market for Chinese goods, and for now their economy is built on exports. Whatever they may think of the US or Europe, our fortunes are tied together by trade unless/until they decide to become "self-sufficient," which works both ways. When this starts to happen, war may not be too far behind. > > > > > i thought that the chinese are the main 'merica public debt > > creditor, > > Which means that the working chinese have been forced by their > own government to finance the americunt-wall-street financial > mafia. Good for goldman-sachs. Bad for Mr. Li. > Exactly. But yeah, 7%. They may be the largest FOREIGN debt holder, which I'm pretty sure is what Trump actually means. > > > but can't find reference for this on the > > interwebz. > > > > Partial results: > > > > CNN [sic] > > http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ | Who > > owns America's debt? > > > > | Donald Trump says he can "make a deal" on America's debt. > > > > | Last week, he implied that he could negotiate with America's > > creditors to get them to accept a lower rate of repayment, such as 85 > > cents for every dollar. > > > > | The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such > > as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the > > Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of > > the debt. > > > Governments 'lending' money to themselves, which seems pretty > absurd, simply means that they keep printing billions out of > thin air. Need money? Just print it! Isn't socialized banking > amazing. > Yep, just bookkeeping tricks. But yeah, didn't protect the banks back in the days (1990s) when they weren't allowed to branch across state lines, were required to hold a large fraction of their debt in their own state's bonds, and states kept defaulting. And it means a US government "default" will have interesting consequences. > > > > > | China's share of the debt is sizable -- about 7% -- but it's hardly > > the largest holder of U.S. government bonds. > > > > What do you expect from 'mericuns? They are creditors of > > themselves, lol. And they "negotiate" paying less... > > > Yeah, all creditors are equal, but some creditors are more > equal than others. Some creditors are going to lose more than > others... > Yup. > > > > > Though the chinese give mericuns virtual money, they don't mind > > stealing from them: > > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/hacker_gets_46_months_cooler_time_for_shipping_f35_f22_secrets_to_pla/ > > > > | Chinese national Su Bin has been sentenced to 46 months jail after > > admitting his role in stealing information on the Lockheed F-22 and > > F-35 aircraft, along with Boeing's C-17 cargo plane. > > Stealing from the biggest thieves on the world? =) > > > > > > | The hacker admitted reports detailing the stolen data were sent to > > the Chinese People’s Liberation Army General Staff Headquarters. > > Not even really stealing. The Chinese people already paid for it by keeping their goods cheap for us 'muricans. They're basically American taxpayers for all intents and purposes. It's hard to blame Trump for believing that the problem with the national debt is that the US owes a bunch of people money, and therefore the solution is to negotiate some sort of settlement whereby the US pays less than face value on its debt. But not blaming him and thinking he's qualified to be President with such a view are completely separate things. The problem is not that the US has too much debt. The problem is that the US is running out of credit. And by "credit" I mean generically *trust.* No negotiated settlement can recover lost credit. Quite the contrary; if the US is going to saber-rattle in order to avoid paying what it's promised to pay despite having its debts denominated in its own currency, that can only hurt the US's credit with other countries. Debt is also not the only promise the US federal government, to say nothing of state and local governments, have made that they are going to have trouble keeping. There's a bunch of other mandatory spending that's growing every year faster than GDP with no plan to reduce it: pension obligations, social security, medicare, welfare. 2/3 of the Federal budget is mandatory spending. Half of discretionary spending would have to be cut in order to balance the budget. Half of discretionary spending goes to the military. And of course, huge cuts like that will also cut into revenue, at least in the short term, while doing nothing to actually reduce the governments' unfunded liabilities. That said, the US is actually in fantastic shape compared to most of the "developed" world. So interest rates remain low for the US because it's the nicest house in a really shitty neighborhood. Dark times are ahead for the entire developed world unless economic growth rates come up quite a bit. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 21:30:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 00:30:44 -0400 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] Message-ID: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690 http://archive.is/T8Hlu (Uncensored version) http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/07/18/lucky_green_torpedos_tors_tonga_node/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/4tectj/tor_veteran_lucky_green_exits_torpedos_critical/ """"" Tonga (Bridge Authority) Permanent Shutdown Notice 2016-07-16T01:06:25Z Dear friends, Given recent events, it is no longer appropriate for me to materially contribute to the Tor Project either financially, as I have so generously throughout the years, nor by providing computing resources. This decision does not come lightly; I probably ran one of the first five nodes in the system and my involvement with Tor predates it being called "Tor" by many years. Nonetheless, I feel that I have no reasonable choice left within the bounds of ethics, but to announce the discontinuation of all Tor-related services hosted on every system under my control. Most notably, this includes the Tor node "Tonga", the "Bridge Authority", which I recognize is rather pivotal to the network Tonga will be permanently shut down and all associated crytographic keys destroyed on 2016-08-31. This should give the Tor developers ample time to stand up a substitute. I will terminate the chron job we set up so many years ago at that time that copies over the descriptors. In addition to Tonga, I will shut down a number of fast Tor relays, but the directory authorities should detect that shutdown quickly and no separate notice is needed here. I wish the Tor Project nothing but the best moving forward through those difficult times, --Lucky """"" From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 18 23:31:30 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 00:31:30 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> <578CE4E4.9050803@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578DC942.3080201@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/18/2016 07:08 PM, Jon Tullett wrote: > On 18 July 2016 at 16:17, Mirimir wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 07/18/2016 07:33 AM, Jon Tullett wrote: >>> On 18 July 2016 at 14:57, Mirimir wrote: >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> On 07/18/2016 06:11 AM, Jon Tullett wrote: >>>> >>>>> Haroon Meer, who I greatly respect in the security space, >>>>> describes UX complexity in terms of his mum. As in, "could >>>>> my mum do this?" and if the answer is no, it's too complex >>>>> for the average user. I like that. >>>> >>>> His mum probably shouldn't be using Tor. >>> >>> Why not? Are you able to say with certainty that they are not >>> at risk and shouldn't be using Tor? Sounds like a risky >>> assumption. Not that it's applicable here, but activists' >>> families are not uncommonly at high risk. I'd caution against >>> assuming you know someone's risk profile better than they do. >>> And that, in a nutshell, is why I don't think Tor should be >>> making such an assumption in its recommendations to users in >>> general. >> >> Giving clueless folk an illusion of safety is arguably bad. > > Now you're back to "sheep". Don't assume that "technically > inexperienced" equates to "clueless". Well, say "technically inexperienced" if you like. In my world, we call that "clueless". I'm more or less clueless in many areas, and am not ashamed to admit it. > Security theatre is generally not positive, but again, security is > never absolute and you will always be able to find an argument for > doing more, and someone who will argue that failing to do so is, > yes, arguably bad. Everyone has to draw the line somewhere. Tor has > done so. Well, given what we know of TLA capabilities, what Tor Project says at is tantamount to false advertising: | Anonymity Online | | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself against network surveillance | and traffic analysis. Maybe so against local adversaries. But clearly not against global adversaries. Cynical folk note that so far, the US and its allies are the only known global adversary. And claim that this is self-serving bullshit. | Tor prevents people from learning your location or browsing habits. It for sure hasn't stopped FBI, with their honeypots that drop malware. And I doubt that it stops NSA/GCHQ. But Tor Project just postures about "bad FBI". They don't give naive users, who may be at risk, even a brief heads up about proxy leakage, and how to prevent it. Two or three years ago, even after the Freedom Hosting debacle, I was willing to cut Tor Project some slack. But after the PlayPen attack, it's becoming harder to escape the conclusion that Tor Project either doesn't want to mitigate this risk, or doesn't have the contractual freedom to do so. > We're going in circles on this now, so this will be my last > repetition of that particular argument. As I've said, I think we > agree there's room for better education, but just differ on > details. Fair enough :) >>>>> It's probably far more meaningful to help users understand >>>>> that spectrum, self-assess where they fall on it and what >>>>> their risk profile may look like as a result, and pointers >>>>> to resources which would align with that. >>>> >>>> That sounds good to me. Except that there's nothing on the >>>> Tor Project site about Whonix, and virtually nothing about >>>> proxy-bypass leaks. >>> >>> Why should there be mention of Whonix? It's an independent >>> project. >> >> What about >> ? > > That's a list of projects Tor is involved with. It's interesting > but there's no context - someone who knows they need the tool is > already most of the way there. Helping people identify that the > need the tool at all is the part I'm interesting in. It's my general impression that Whonix project has been actively rebuffed. But I have no inside knowledge. > (snip) >> Tails is on >> but not >> Whonix. Why is that? > > At a guess, it's because Tor is more actively involved in Tails > than in Whonix. But that is just a guess. Have you asked the > maintainers? Yes, that does seem to be the case. But asking hasn't gotten me anywhere. Maybe some fly on the wall will dump some evidence ;) >>> Proxy bypass, maybe, but that's in there with all the other >>> potential risks, and again, Tor can't document all of them. >> >> Tor Project has made a huge deal over the PlayPen pwnage. >> Demanding that the FBI release information about its NIT. But >> they can't be bothered to actually explain how users could have >> been protected? > > Very different issues, I think. I'm sure you disagree; I'm not > going to debate it. I don't disagree that they're different issues. My point is that warning users about proxy bypass takes but a few words on a website, and maybe a link. And given that it's such an easy fix, I suspect that Tor Project either doesn't want to admit the risk so clearly, or is somehow being prevented from doing so. >>> That's a rhetorical question - I'm sure there are pros and >>> cons either way and it could be argued at length without >>> conclusion. I'm not convinced Tor should be promoting either; >>> same way I'm not convinced Tor should be promoting any specific >>> tools. There will always be others, and they may be better >>> suited to users depending on their circumstances. >> >> Sure. Except that proxy bypass has been a major fail. Do you >> disagree? > > Yes, I do. Systems get attacked, and are updated to thwart > attacks. Tor does this - that is not a fail, that's the normal > security dev process. Don't assume that nothing is happening - it's > not like Tor is not actively researched and developed. It's been at least five years! The relay early bug got fixed in months. Maybe devs are working on some integrated firewall or whatever. That would be cool. But Whonix isn't vulnerable, has been available for years, and gets no love. And it's not just Whonix. Other approaches that separate tor process and userland have also been largely ignored. >> A few years ago, I wrote >> . > > Have you updated it to account for subverted VPN providers? > Advising people to use VPNs which may have been subject to national > security letters is arguably bad. Which VPNs have received NSLs? Anyway, I don't assume that a particular VPN operator can be trusted any more than a particular Tor relay operator can. Just as Tor uses three-relay circuits, I recommend using nested VPN chains, with at least three different VPNs, operating in different jurisdictions. Some useful links: IVPN privacy guides: https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides VPN info/ratings: https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ VPN test results: https://vpntesting.info/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjck/AAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+2hgH/38KYdqwRmjIoz/CnfVyizHv c6c0KnouGRfxXqMfC8wuIPG5rptIx22k0fZScv+vt+1OHJts6kzol2SUPMQKRnmo f6oBS7z7MBAJR+JEJ02LfPRMihl5/FzY4CupTE+kIQlg2cPj83jnmu1Ywdg+gLpi o21YNt9RdZhYjFPwtp7/4c70f6QBnNV/lNXLapBKciXbVhw+WClhanXnbqwgXZHr C8BkPnQ6M3KruNYueAD0lb0HSDBqd1l9lQmn5arRjpKbJctCP5joOOlXOMYHmugA 0/caDabgdG76rZE9l/9nFrE2mFvPfBSNHjjaWns8YNH0U0J54G1CEfCD6wJB0R4= =AA9M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 00:30:37 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 01:30:37 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578DD71D.9060101@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/19/2016 12:02 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/18/16, Mirimir wrote: >> Anyway, what does Tor Project gain by not mentioning Whonix? > > That's a bit sideways, but in the interest of sideways eventually > moving forward... I'd say "meta" rather than "sideways", but hey ;) > 1) Funding of sorts, which spreads around, to develop TBB, a > sizable prioject, to do decent things a browser should do, > hopefully feeding back to Mozilla. Were certain elements of > security left uninvestigated and just punted to Whonix+FF, well > that's a incomplete partial approach too. If you want funds, you > might not want to publish other partial solutions. Well, Whonix uses stock Tor browser, with a tweak to keep it from launching its own local tor process. It also enforces stream separation for other apps. But the key thing here is that it prevents proxy bypass. > Securing the browser and browser meta is a fine project. And as has > been said, it's still needed to pair the app with defense in depth > and a known line around application land. Just remember TBB and Tor > are not and cannot be that line. Yes, they are for sure not that line. So why not acknowledge that? Maybe key funders have said no to that. > 2) Captured audience dependency. As with publishing, this is > corporate 101. Giving someone an app is well... welcome to apps, > and a torbox to run them on. Like iTunes on iPhone. Right. For most, Tor browser on Windows. Pwnage waiting to happen. But why does Tor Project care about captured audience dependency? People using Whonix, like people using Tails, are still using Tor. And still using stock Tor browser. Maybe goals of key funders are driving this. Deliver lots of Tor relays and users to hide our agents. But make sure that users can't hide from our TLAs. That's what language in Graham's appropriations bill says. Maybe that's been the backroom deal for years, and Tor Project has been pushing back. One does get that sense from the leaked IRC logs. > Giving someone unix is like airdropping a great big box of freedom > their way. Here, have some free beer... > > https://www.freebsd.org/ https://www.openbsd.org/ > https://torbsd.github.io/ > > Or whatever it is penquins drink... https://www.whonix.org/ > https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes https://www.qubes-os.org/ > > Or a fine Javanese app... https://geti2p.net/ > > 3) Like I said, the real reason is probably a bit more mundane... > nobody signed on to update the content. Tor has money, go hire > yourself. I doubt that they hire anons :( But damn, I'd do it for free, if they let me :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjdcZAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+G24IAKZTOZVxidiX2qEnOokfKh1T pg8BsXRgyMx7395mMc3WDFx16zc1Ylbh14z+YUq+1TOenO2wURjtTT9OCjCAjnOI IL1GRXjM23QLTI0qkRCwiEB04HZsu5t1jq1sJ7F23BUX/UjSBuK1osmtK3Ve3ucb qMTgZVIgmnWwdFkEM1l5fcDltnIYzOxF5VR0jHo5KTQ63l7E/xcNaWD/Y92yUu5C ZLeCYgVc+KdngHhVPDzhphCeWXwrVdpwRO0zqqLiR8ijn/dW0fFA7gOfZzTI1YTw VmVymrDWBfr6RjZ0FVeSIrvhewVRPjHIepTHwOuQQsAde5UGhtNv9lnXt+P7Rq4= =w5Ab -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 21:53:53 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 01:53:53 -0300 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578db1b0.4941370a.479d6.1be3@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 00:30:44 -0400 grarpamp wrote: >http://archive.is/T8Hlu >Changed 47 seconds ago by cypherpunks >Tor spoke doing as SJW's did, part and parcel. >Tor is vulnerable to GPA etc. >Tor eats at table of USGOV. >Tor is in the hands of pop meta players now, >not OG hackers and activists. I wouldn't be surprised if "cypherpunks" is grarpamp. Anyway, whoever "cypherpunks" is, he's a dumb liar. Tor always was vulnerable to 'GPAs', always was funded by the US nazis, and completely in bed with the US gov't. Any 'hackers' who worked for tor were and are nothing but unprincipled US gov't lapdogs. From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 23:07:40 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:07:40 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] webmail send while using TOR is tagged as spamends up in spam In-Reply-To: <1971985558.1256611.1468905219801.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1971985558.1256611.1468905219801.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1971985558.1256611.1468905219801.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Friet Pan Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 05:13:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [tor-talk] webmail send while using TOR is tagged as spamends up in spam To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org i use yahoo to mail with mailinglists but i use TOR to connect to yahoo. tuns out that all my posts now end up in everyones spam folders. Is this because the tor exitnodes are used by spammers? or is every mail that was send from a TOR user falsely marked as spam? also the subscription confirmation email i received from this list ended up in yahoo's spam. So now i also wonder how many people on this list are not receiving THIS message. I'm NOT a spammer. Can i sue yahoo for falsely tagging my mails as spam? or better can TOR sue Yahoo? :-D and win and get a lot of money to put into development? please have a look at dmarc.org it tries to explain in lawyer-ish speak how the yahoo, gmail, facebook aol, paypal, ebay, amazon cartel teamed together to force people to 'autenticate' authenticate as in ...get a code that they can use to invade our privacy. (or is this my brain going into paranoia mode?) can this be fixed? Or do we need a new email protocol that respects privacy by default, decentralized, with whitelist and request to communicate and eventually a blacklist to be able to block extreme cases. is it enough to move away from yahoo, or will the same stuff happen when using another email provider? Thanks for improving my privacy! Wp -- tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org To unsubscribe or change other settings go to https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 01:53:41 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:53:41 -0600 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: <578db1b0.4941370a.479d6.1be3@mx.google.com> References: <578db1b0.4941370a.479d6.1be3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578DEA95.9020306@riseup.net> On 07/18/2016 10:53 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 00:30:44 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > >> http://archive.is/T8Hlu > >> Changed 47 seconds ago by cypherpunks >> Tor spoke doing as SJW's did, part and parcel. >> Tor is vulnerable to GPA etc. >> Tor eats at table of USGOV. >> Tor is in the hands of pop meta players now, >> not OG hackers and activists. > > > I wouldn't be surprised if "cypherpunks" is grarpamp. Anyway, > whoever "cypherpunks" is, he's a dumb liar. Tor always was > vulnerable to 'GPAs', always was funded by the US nazis, and > completely in bed with the US gov't. Any 'hackers' who worked > for tor were and are nothing but unprincipled US gov't lapdogs. Tor bug tracker uses "cypherpunks" for anonymous postings. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 01:57:05 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:57:05 -0600 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <578DEB61.1050107@riseup.net> On 07/18/2016 10:30 PM, grarpamp wrote: > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690 > http://archive.is/T8Hlu (Uncensored version) > > http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/07/18/lucky_green_torpedos_tors_tonga_node/ > https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/4tectj/tor_veteran_lucky_green_exits_torpedos_critical/ > > """"" > Tonga (Bridge Authority) Permanent Shutdown Notice > 2016-07-16T01:06:25Z > > Dear friends, > Given recent events, it is no longer appropriate for me to materially > contribute to the Tor Project either financially, as I have so > generously throughout the years, nor by providing computing resources. > This decision does not come lightly; I probably ran one of the first > five nodes in the system and my involvement with Tor predates it being > called "Tor" by many years. > Nonetheless, I feel that I have no reasonable choice left within the > bounds of ethics, but to announce the discontinuation of all > Tor-related services hosted on every system under my control. I wonder what triggered this. The Appelbaum mess? Board change? Probably some back story about one or both. Maybe it'll leak :) From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 02:31:09 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:31:09 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable by >> design. > > > keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully > satisfied yet. He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after all. But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure communication, but only by making it public, for use by both funders and their enemies. It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to US military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's intentionally designed to be vulnerable. There's also the fact that nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to global adversaries. So it seems unlikely that he had such a design that he put aside as unsellable. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 02:40:20 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > all along about Tor Inc. Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government uses it for evil. It's the same argument that we make about encryption generally. Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 00:55:27 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:55:27 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: <578DC942.3080201@riseup.net> References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> <578CE4E4.9050803@riseup.net> <578DC942.3080201@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/19/16, Mirimir wrote: > Well, given what we know of TLA capabilities, what Tor Project says at > is tantamount to false advertising: > > | Anonymity Online > | > | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself against network surveillance > | and traffic analysis. ... > | Tor prevents people from learning your location or browsing habits. I never liked those statements. I don't expect the user to know why I or we don't, that takes an investment. But at least give them a damn link right there alongside them that says "Learn about the limitations of Tor" or something similar, out to a nice open wiki page on the subject so they can start. Not just "Learn more about Tor" out to an overview containing a tiny "staying anonymous" section with no links, docs or text to further support itself. Even in there "fast enough for web browsing" is a bad qualifier. Creating concise correct current text that holds up to parsing is work, and there are degrees involved. But in a leading "privacy" and "anonymity" app with certain remarked use cases beyond surfing example.com all day, not doing so as an integrated project component is kinda unexcusable. > Cynical folk note that so far, the US and its allies are > the only known global adversary. And claim that this is self-serving > bullshit. ... > it's becoming harder to escape the conclusion that Tor Project either > doesn't want to mitigate this risk, or doesn't have the contractual > freedom to do so. Interesting to note that because former reasonably well known and accepted decades of humanitarian investment by some of these states has been reinvested into decades of things like drone strikes... it makes it harder for projects like Tor to freely make the case that their project existance and use case is even valid for human rights and so on when states are trending bashing those rights and their validity. Right of anonymity and privacy, let alone legal and technical extant versions of same, seems a very tenuous thing. And the latter especially, is not something you can just brush on a frontpage and say it exists. From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 03:01:47 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 04:01:47 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> <578CE4E4.9050803@riseup.net> <578DC942.3080201@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578DFA8B.7000609@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/19/2016 03:50 AM, Jon Tullett wrote: > On 19 July 2016 at 08:31, Mirimir wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 07/18/2016 07:08 PM, Jon Tullett wrote: >>> On 18 July 2016 at 16:17, Mirimir wrote: >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > >>>> A few years ago, I wrote >>>> . >>> >>> Have you updated it to account for subverted VPN providers? >>> Advising people to use VPNs which may have been subject to >>> national security letters is arguably bad. >> >> Which VPNs have received NSLs? > > I take it that's a no, then? I account for it by distributing trust, just as Tor does. > Point being, not only do we now know which operators have received > letters, we _can't_ know. The first rule of NSL club is you don't > talk about NSL club. I have yet to see much evidence that warrant > canaries help. And that's not the only risk; operators can be > coerced, hacked, suborned, or otherwise compromised. Belgacom, for > example. What Tor relays have received NSLs? > We mitigate that by layering services, but that's back to the > question of how complex an environment suits your risk profile. Not > everyone has the same nut; not everyone needs the same size > hammer. The NSA is a pretty big nutcracker ;) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjfqHAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+jfsH/j2m+GIEfHEG/Ye1mKviqiYB 2NpeeI5W/r6Zq/Bv/xoqnid+qhwtP/4BwkukXeJ2LhXHBinDKJuKJluOzqiSOqMI 7ThceELgk0ec2eiPSDNJAfH784ShDMpwZEJIJ4I6MmuPXBJ6CJFdzau0rf/M0vGT tm2m5SfPKh66ZvtGzvoHGsyUV0p1Hu5I3H3ID+EiBbP2uqSi/mL1OXaezT5tGamu OxczvVFo5cl3uGCJechHXq/jlTyiNrRf6YAUocitFXwXejMHpUQrvU/TlDnZqN5u rA9Ezxg2YFZ3NltC1Owob8oEgA8/VfWhUZ5v+w9poWG8c6WgOfB4pti5Jq6TAfo= =W8Yj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 03:10:44 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 04:10:44 -0600 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 01:41 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> the Russian AF rout, > > PS, what does "AF" mean? Afghanistan ;) From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 03:38:13 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 04:38:13 -0600 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> <578CE4E4.9050803@riseup.net> <578DC942.3080201@riseup.net> <578DFA8B.7000609@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578E0315.8050009@riseup.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/19/2016 04:18 AM, Jon Tullett wrote: > On 19 July 2016 at 12:01, Mirimir wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 07/19/2016 03:50 AM, Jon Tullett wrote: >>> On 19 July 2016 at 08:31, Mirimir wrote: >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> On 07/18/2016 07:08 PM, Jon Tullett wrote: >>>>> On 18 July 2016 at 16:17, Mirimir >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>> >>>>>> A few years ago, I wrote >>>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Have you updated it to account for subverted VPN providers? >>>>> Advising people to use VPNs which may have been subject to >>>>> national security letters is arguably bad. >>>> >>>> Which VPNs have received NSLs? >>> >>> I take it that's a no, then? >> >> I account for it by distributing trust, just as Tor does. > > But your guide does not. It doesn't even mention them. Why are you > concealing the truth from users?!?11 This gets at the trust issue: | Using VPN services obscures online activity from local observers, | and it also obscures location and identity from remote observers | on the Internet. However, users are entirely vulnerable to | betrayal by the VPN provider. With a second VPN service tunneled | through the first, trust has been distributed, in that compromise | would require collusion between the two providers. That comes pretty close, I think. NSLs are really irrelevant in risk assessment. Because NSL or not, you have no way to know who you can trust. So you can't trust anyone. > The point I'm trying to make is that you can't cover every base. > Too often, attempts to do so just end up with unusable rambling > essays on security which no one will read and which still fail to > cover a lot of ground. You're accusing Tor of something that you > yourself can't avoid. That's not a criticism - just a reflection of > reality. Say what you will, this is misleading: | Tor prevents people from learning your location or browsing habits. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjgMTAAoJEGINZVEXwuQ+P4UH/3zyjj3FmgZTjH0Qe7pijN5s ETxHDAK5gZoGA/8VVeYIEG3SNg2rnNSc6cvD9aW5pdebdZfirtvuwY++vVrFw3P/ y5zqt+MQAdfcPlsFmpty5qkzKAAuO37/4m6yAEAxuTkJvfCpY/ThWVFy8xXk+OeV p2naoo5GFboRP3r4+N1nxY7DsgzwRfhkxVZQSxmPjJhEFxTvNiq2crAnvUHLrBJe 46QiWn+agldN54LxkPVasAUgd7RWirl4O+H9UhZumA2ZrBHNa4I5YYoOw28zc4Am /G2+Kdgst3Ua8em3D6LvNmQnMAUXi7NS5tAazl5IYpQsuj1G/jfkDnUtYeTJN1s= =+aIe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mirimir at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 03:48:47 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 04:48:47 -0600 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160719102459.GV16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> <20160719102459.GV16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578E058F.2010900@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 04:24 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:10:44AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/19/2016 01:41 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >>>> the Russian AF rout, >>> >>> PS, what does "AF" mean? >> >> Afghanistan ;) > > Oh ok, well, my initial non thinking assumption that it was some > military term proves how I should have asked first before jamming foot > in mouth. > > Now I have another question - what does Rayzer mean by "the Russian AF > rout"? Well, the US worked with SA to build Taliban, which kicked their ass. Using experience from Viet Nam, they basically wrote the book on asymmetric warfare. But of course, that came back to kick their ass when the same ideology and methods focused on foreign domination of Middle East. Even after 9/11 and Iraq, they tried that shit again in Syria. But WTF, maybe it's all part of some long AI game ;) From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 02:42:17 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 05:42:17 -0400 Subject: Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users Message-ID: https://cryptome.org/2016/07/cloudflare-de-anons-tor.htm 18 July 2016 Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users A sends: Cloudflare's insistence on solving reCAPTCHA puzzles when visitors are coming from Tor exit nodes to one of the 2 million web sites that Cloudflare 'protects' can be very instrumental for traffic analysis and de-anonymizing of Tor users. This is how: The only non-public prerequisite for the de-anonymizing entity is the ability to monitor traffic between ISPs and Tor entry nodes, and traffic entering Cloudflare servers (no decryption required in either case). There are, of course, no 2 million Cloudflare servers, probably there is no more than few hundred. Each click on one of the images in the puzzle generates a total of about 50 packets between Tor user's computer and the Cloudflare's server (about half are requests and half are real-time responses from the server.) All this happens in less than a second, so eventual jitter introduced in onion mixing is immaterial. The packet group has predictable sizes and patterns, so all the adversary has to do is note the easily detectable signature of the "image click" event, and correlate it with the same on the Cloudflare side. Again, no decryption required. There likely are many simultaneous users (thousands), but they do not solve puzzles at the same time, and they do not click on the puzzle image at the same time. Simple math shows that disambiguating is trivial. If there is some ambiguity left, Cloudflare can conveniently serve few more images to specific users (or even random users, as long as within the same few seconds different users get different amount of 'correct' images.) This obvious opportunity is not the proof, but NSA would have to be utterly incompetent not to be exploiting it. No one is that incompetent. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 02:55:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 05:55:59 -0400 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://cryptome.org/2016/07/lucky-green-shuts-tor-tonga.htm 17 July 2016 Lucky Green Leaves Tor, to Shut Tonga Bridge A sends: Tor's initial response to approaching bridge infrastructure shutdown, from the private tor-intenal list: http://pastebin.com/w5WFMBXg - Message on tor-internal reacting to Tonga sunsetting a guest Sunday 17th of July 2016 12:52:20 PM CDT 39 Never text 1.87 KB Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2016 11:15:29 +0200 From: Sebastian Hahn To: tor-internal at lists.torproject.org, Karsten Loesing , Nick Mathewson , Roger Dingledine Subject: [tor-internal] Tonga is going away permanently Aug 31 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) [-- Attachment #1 --] [-- Type: multipart/signed, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 1.8K --] [-- PGP output follows (current time: Sat 16 Jul 2016 09:37:19 AM UTC) --] gpg: Signature made Sat 16 Jul 2016 09:15:30 AM UTC gpg: using RSA key A96C6FDD140C961B gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found [-- End of PGP output --] [-- The following data is signed --] Hey, Lucky announced[0] that he is quitting all his Tor involvement including operation of Tonga and several relays. The relays should not cause any problems, but we need to deploy a new bridge auth asap, make sure it can transfer descriptors as the current one does etc. We need a supremely trusted operator for this, as they see sensitive data that they shouldn't lose, as well as someone who is able to provide a very high-availability system because bridge auth works quite differently compared to the dirauth system. Nevertheless, this will cause severe disruption for the bridge ecosystem as our users typically take a long time to update their version of Tor. We should strive to have this set up very soon and included in a Tor release well before Aug 31, and yet it will still cause disruptions. The above is just my take on the whole thing and I'm somewhat shocked by the development. Sebastian [0]: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690 [-- End of signed data --] [-- Attachment #2 --] [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: base64, Size: 0.2K --] _______________________________________________ tor-internal mailing list From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 07:38:25 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 07:38:25 -0700 Subject: Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users Message-ID: <3bfd07c1-ffa1-c4cb-e44d-48be537cbfa1@riseup.net> https://cryptome.org/2016/07/cloudflare-de-anons-tor.htm I pointed out that possibility regarding Hushmail in February 2015. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/111007562804 http://66.media.tumblr.com/acc793091fadb7eabc16dbf9705b2be3/tumblr_njs0wgovEO1r9ju7do2_1280.png It's especially treacherous if you do have something to hide, and helps them tune their shit, if you log in on tor, and also barefoot, at different times. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 07:54:00 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 07:54:00 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 02:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > all along about Tor Inc. > Right about what? That the feds, SPECIFICALLY THE PENTAGON, is responsible for EVERY PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY you'll ever use? Including microwave ovens and TeeVee dinners... You'd have to be an utter fucking RUBE, not to realize that. THE OBJECT, if you view life as a video game instead of a B-Movie, is to HIJACK their starship, and use it to destroy their Fleet before they destroy you. Juan's a federal troll. As he elicit responses to his spew he sends the info off to his handlers to build elaborate psycho-emotional profiles on list users. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:07:21 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:07:21 -0700 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: <578DEB61.1050107@riseup.net> References: <578DEB61.1050107@riseup.net> Message-ID: <809e5d4b-0399-b21a-0bcc-25c52658e480@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 01:57 AM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/18/2016 10:30 PM, grarpamp wrote: >> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19690 >> http://archive.is/T8Hlu (Uncensored version) >> >> http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/07/18/lucky_green_torpedos_tors_tonga_node/ >> https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/4tectj/tor_veteran_lucky_green_exits_torpedos_critical/ >> >> """"" >> Tonga (Bridge Authority) Permanent Shutdown Notice >> 2016-07-16T01:06:25Z >> >> Dear friends, >> Given recent events, it is no longer appropriate for me to materially >> contribute to the Tor Project either financially, as I have so >> generously throughout the years, nor by providing computing resources. >> This decision does not come lightly; I probably ran one of the first >> five nodes in the system and my involvement with Tor predates it being >> called "Tor" by many years. >> Nonetheless, I feel that I have no reasonable choice left within the >> bounds of ethics, but to announce the discontinuation of all >> Tor-related services hosted on every system under my control. > I wonder what triggered this. The Appelbaum mess? Board change? > > Probably some back story about one or both. Maybe it'll leak :) > > "...within the bounds of ethics..." can mean a lot of different things. Maybe this person didn't like the way ioerror was SLANDERED. Maybe a rift in the Board about how much say the gubmint gets in the project and it just got replaced with a majority sold out to teh gubmint. I might add IF there was some new MAJOR problem within tor software itself ioerror or this guy would surely be blowing that whistle... Now that there's been a purge, that could change. People like schneier might be reasonable and ethical watchdogs but he CERTAINLY isn't someone who can spot the problems in the code. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:18:55 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:18:55 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 07/19/2016 12:41 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> the Russian AF rout, > PS, what does "AF" mean? > Air Force, and there are thousands of pics of matched and identified ISIS al-nusra folks flooding Turkish train and bus terminals in the wake of that AF bombing campaign... Where DO you think they ended up, even if only because they knew instinctively the plan had changed, and they retired? The US and Russia are going to partition Syria with the interest of regional players like the Kurds in mind, and ISIS, al-nusra, and the rest just became redundant and their only useful idiot use now is to foment terror in the countries that financed them so as to allow those countries build or reinforce their totalitarian states ... b/c "MUSLIMS!" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:19:50 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:19:50 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <2f44faa6-d752-65db-cc1f-901d480d4a1c@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 03:10 AM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 01:41 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >>> the Russian AF rout, >> PS, what does "AF" mean? > Afghanistan ;) > > (Russian) Air Force... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:21:39 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:21:39 -0700 Subject: Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users In-Reply-To: <3bfd07c1-ffa1-c4cb-e44d-48be537cbfa1@riseup.net> References: <3bfd07c1-ffa1-c4cb-e44d-48be537cbfa1@riseup.net> Message-ID: <38d6b55b-4131-4981-b89f-6103531e6e05@riseup.net> Ooops! Dupe! Sorry. On 07/19/2016 07:38 AM, Rayzer wrote: > https://cryptome.org/2016/07/cloudflare-de-anons-tor.htm > > I pointed out that possibility regarding Hushmail in February 2015. > > http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/111007562804 > > http://66.media.tumblr.com/acc793091fadb7eabc16dbf9705b2be3/tumblr_njs0wgovEO1r9ju7do2_1280.png > > It's especially treacherous if you do have something to hide, and helps > them tune their shit, if you log in on tor, and also barefoot, at > different times. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:22:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:22:38 -0700 Subject: Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6aa47d6a-074c-7e86-05e7-4ece88915a09@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 02:42 AM, grarpamp wrote: > https://cryptome.org/2016/07/cloudflare-de-anons-tor.htm > > 18 July 2016 > > Cloudflare reCAPTCHA De-anonymizes Tor Users > > A sends: > > Cloudflare's insistence on solving reCAPTCHA puzzles when visitors are > coming from Tor exit nodes to one of the 2 million web sites that > Cloudflare 'protects' can be very instrumental for traffic analysis > and de-anonymizing of Tor users. > > This is how: > > The only non-public prerequisite for the de-anonymizing entity is the > ability to monitor traffic between ISPs and Tor entry nodes, and > traffic entering Cloudflare servers (no decryption required in either > case). There are, of course, no 2 million Cloudflare servers, probably > there is no more than few hundred. > > Each click on one of the images in the puzzle generates a total of > about 50 packets between Tor user's computer and the Cloudflare's > server (about half are requests and half are real-time responses from > the server.) All this happens in less than a second, so eventual > jitter introduced in onion mixing is immaterial. The packet group has > predictable sizes and patterns, so all the adversary has to do is note > the easily detectable signature of the "image click" event, and > correlate it with the same on the Cloudflare side. Again, no > decryption required. > > There likely are many simultaneous users (thousands), but they do not > solve puzzles at the same time, and they do not click on the puzzle > image at the same time. Simple math shows that disambiguating is > trivial. If there is some ambiguity left, Cloudflare can conveniently > serve few more images to specific users (or even random users, as long > as within the same few seconds different users get different amount of > 'correct' images.) > > This obvious opportunity is not the proof, but NSA would have to be > utterly incompetent not to be exploiting it. No one is that > incompetent. > I pointed out this possibility regarding Hushmail in February 2015. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/111007562804 http://66.media.tumblr.com/acc793091fadb7eabc16dbf9705b2be3/tumblr_njs0wgovEO1r9ju7do2_1280.png It's especially treacherous if you do have something to hide, and helps them tune their shit, if you log in on tor, and also barefoot, at different times. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3177 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 08:34:05 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:34:05 -0700 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 02:12 AM, stef wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44:16AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move >> to something allegedly better? >> >> Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. >> >> For a start, I would like to know: >> >> 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > from the top of my head: > dissent, > riffle, > i2p, > mixminion > pynchon-gate > percy++ > >> 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? >> 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? >> 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? >> 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? >> 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? >> >> As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with >> USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. >> > ---end quoted text--- > dissent, riffle, i2p, mixminion pynchon-gate percy++ NONE of these are intended for the same target audience as tor. IOW NONE of the above could CONCEIVABLY be used by a journalist or computer-illiterate dissident in Tanzania right NOW. And honestly, imho, I2P is probably just a compromises as tor, but it's so much more fucking obuscurant, to hide that possibility. I tried using it for a while. Fucking useless and continues to be so. No one's mentioned Retroshare. It seems a likely candidate. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 18 23:04:49 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:04:49 +0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160719060449.GA843@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 03:11:06PM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4t9vdm/3_baton_rouge_police_officers_just_shot_developing/ > > """ > d5fr7am > Oh for fucks sake, the news has been really bad over the last two > weeks. First it was, "ISIS truck bomb in Iraq kills almost 300 > people", then "Black army veteran kills 5 police in Dallas in sniper > style attack", then "Lorry attack in Nice kills 80+" and "Coup attempt > in Turkey kills more than 200". Now this. > """ > Today's news: "man attacks passengers in train in germany with axe, later shot dead by police". From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 18 16:33:02 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:33:02 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:24:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/17/2016 11:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > This sounds compelling and conclusive. Let's see. > > Good news for Syrian nationalism, not good news for Kurdish project. > > > > You've got to explain... HOW can an ISIS-enabling Islamist be "Good news > for Syrian nationalism..."? Because Syria is Russias very long term national partner, and Turkey is also making up with Russia. ISTM that Turkey will back off completely now and stop sending the jihadis to Syria. Could be wrong of course, but I don't think Russia would accept rapproachment if Turkey keeps fighting Syria. I.e., Erdogan will have his hand in the Russian Turk Stream money pot, and will give up Syrian ISIS oil smuggling trade in return - he will make MUCH more money shipping Russian gas, then laundering ISIS oil. Just pragmatism. > Perhaps you didn't read what you wrote > before hitting the send button", or perhaps you mean something quite > different than what most people understand as "Good news". > > Rr > > > > > > > > > > Hell Hath No Fury Like a Teflon Sultan > > > > "For all practical purposes Erdogan now controls the Executive, the > > Legislative and the Judiciary – and is taking no prisoners to purge the > > military for good." > > > > Pepe Escobar > > > > http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160717/1043158581/erdogan-turkey-coup.html > > > > (Alt: > > http://russia-insider.com/en/hell-hath-no-fury-teflon-sultan/ri15659 > > ) > > > > -- Free Australia: www.UPMART.org Please respect the confidentiality of this email as sensibly warranted. From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 09:36:31 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:36:31 -0700 Subject: As I was saying, the Turkish govt knew about the coup in advance Message-ID: ...and pwned it. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx/?pageID=238&nID=101805&NewsCatID=341/ Now, as most intel news says, Erdogan has had a 'Pyrrhic victory'. https://www.google.com/search?&q=Erdogan+Pyrrhic+victory Meaning his NATO-allowed luv affair with ISIS and it's stolen oil (in return for gun-running/resupply logistics to them at the CIA's behest) is about to come to a screeching halt because the US and Russia are going to 'soft partition' Syria. That means ISIS and all it's islamist allies just became redundant, or else, IF Erdogan 'thinks he has cojones to buck his socio-psychopathic NATO 'friends', as another recent headline states: Turkey could 'turn into Syria or Libya' http://gulfnews.com/news/mena/turkey/fears-that-turkey-could-turn-into-syria-or-libya-1.1865324\ Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1502 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 09:38:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:38:42 -0700 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: <20160719160907.GF843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719160907.GF843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5f73bf2b-aa04-e764-8f11-166bd20cb77c@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 09:09 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:55:59AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: >> From: Sebastian Hahn >> To: tor-internal at lists.torproject.org, > Well, who leaked that? > > Some possibilities include: > > 1. Someone legally subscribed to tor-internal. > 2. Someone illegally subscribed to tor-internal. > 3. Someone owning the mail server/network near it. > 4. Someone owning tor developer subscribed. > Not that there's anything profound about it's contents all, and if leaked by hostile parties notifies them they need to 'tighten up' to prevent more of the same. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 18 23:52:47 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:52:47 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <578d3062.1724c80a.9d11c.e098@mx.google.com> References: <20160717123729.GA687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718054628.GA686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d3062.1724c80a.9d11c.e098@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160719065247.GB843@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 04:42:14PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:46:28 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > The fall of socialism in europe and russia happened in a strange way > > IMHO. > > Strange, how? Care to elaborate? > I may be wrong on this, just a personal opinion about bulgaria. It came too fast, without any warnings signs. The system appeared to work -- there was lack of some goods and services, not of first need ones. Essentially there was no poverty. Nowadays, retired people are literally poor. They can hardly afford to pay the food, bills and medicines. Extreme conspiracy theories claimed Gorbachov was in bed with CIA. I doubt this could be possible without KGB's consent. From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 19 00:18:10 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:18:10 +0300 Subject: on grokiing intention In-Reply-To: <20160719065247.GB843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160717130315.GP16437@x220-a02> <20160717134318.GC687@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160717145957.GU16437@x220-a02> <20160717160220.GB16437@x220-a02> <578bf24b.dacb370a.38973.5bc1@mx.google.com> <20160718054628.GA686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d3062.1724c80a.9d11c.e098@mx.google.com> <20160719065247.GB843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160719071810.GC843@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:52:47AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > ... Nowadays, retired people are > literally poor. They can hardly afford to pay the food, bills and > medicines. > ooops, this was buggy. I mean: "SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT of retired people are...". From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 19 00:37:30 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:37:30 +0300 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160719073730.GD843@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:50:10PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > The Chinese are pro-China, but they recognize that the US is a very large > market for Chinese goods, and for now their economy is built on exports. I think this is only partial explanation. China is _very big_ exporter. > The problem is not that the US has too much debt. The problem is that the > US is running out of credit. And by "credit" I mean generically *trust.* No Not according to the financial rating charlatans. USA rating varies between AAA/Aaa/AA+ (AAA is best possible AFAICT) . And this is after they were discussing default in congress and candidate president wants to pay only 85% of the debt... Pretty much the definition of Ponzi scheme. From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 18 17:52:04 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:52:04 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160719005204.GN16437@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:33:02AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:24:42AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > > > > > > On 07/17/2016 11:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > This sounds compelling and conclusive. Let's see. > > > Good news for Syrian nationalism, not good news for Kurdish project. > > > > > > > You've got to explain... HOW can an ISIS-enabling Islamist be "Good news > > for Syrian nationalism..."? > > Because Syria is Russias very long term national partner, and Turkey is > also making up with Russia. ISTM that Turkey will back off completely > now and stop sending the jihadis to Syria. > > Could be wrong of course, but I don't think Russia would accept > rapproachment if Turkey keeps fighting Syria. I.e., Erdogan will have > his hand in the Russian Turk Stream money pot, and will give up Syrian > ISIS oil smuggling trade in return - he will make MUCH more money > shipping Russian gas, then laundering ISIS oil. Just pragmatism. More details: Behind the CIA's Desperate Turkey Coup Attempt http://journal-neo.org/2016/07/18/behind-the-cia-desperate-turkey-coup-attempt/ Erdogan Taunts Obama Over Coup Attempt in Turkey Erdogan will not forgive the Obama administration for leading him up the garden path on Syria, convincing him that Washington was leaving no stone unturned to overthrow the Assad regime http://atimes.com/2016/07/erdogan-taunts-obama-over-turkeys-coup-bid/ From s at ctrlc.hu Tue Jul 19 02:12:13 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:12:13 +0200 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44:16AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move > to something allegedly better? > > Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. > > For a start, I would like to know: > > 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? from the top of my head: dissent, riffle, i2p, mixminion pynchon-gate percy++ > 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? > 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? > 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? > 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > > As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with > USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. > ---end quoted text--- -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 19 01:44:16 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? Message-ID: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move to something allegedly better? Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. For a start, I would like to know: 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 02:55:41 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 12:55:41 +0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-07-19 12:15 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > all along about Tor Inc. > > And NOT ONLY about the Tor Inc. . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 799 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tedks at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 16:22:05 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:05 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: Juan, Zeeblocks, and the Cyrillic name guy are pretty obvious Russian internet troll army sorts of people. That's been obvious for a while. (Who else links to Russia fucking today?) It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. On July 19, 2016 7:54:00 AM PDT, Rayzer wrote: > > >On 07/19/2016 02:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right >> all along about Tor Inc. >> > >Right about what? That the feds, SPECIFICALLY THE PENTAGON, is >responsible for EVERY PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY you'll ever use? Including >microwave ovens and TeeVee dinners... > >You'd have to be an utter fucking RUBE, not to realize that. > >THE OBJECT, if you view life as a video game instead of a B-Movie, is >to >HIJACK their starship, and use it to destroy their Fleet before they >destroy you. > >Juan's a federal troll. As he elicit responses to his spew he sends the >info off to his handlers to build elaborate psycho-emotional profiles >on >list users. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Tue Jul 19 10:19:01 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:19:01 +0000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:42 AM Rayzer wrote: > > On 07/19/2016 02:12 AM, stef wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44:16AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > >> Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move > >> to something allegedly better? > >> > >> Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. > >> > >> For a start, I would like to know: > >> > >> 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > > from the top of my head: > > dissent, > > riffle, > > i2p, > > mixminion > > pynchon-gate > > percy++ > > > >> 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? > >> 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? > >> 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? > >> 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > >> 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > >> > >> As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with > >> USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. > >> > > ---end quoted text--- > > > > dissent, > riffle, > i2p, > mixminion > pynchon-gate > percy++ > > NONE of these are intended for the same target audience as tor. IOW NONE > of the above could CONCEIVABLY be used by a journalist or > computer-illiterate dissident in Tanzania right NOW. > One (not really) counterexample, though for a very narrow use case is/was NightWeb, which was an Android app that embedded I2P. Was somewhat easier to set up than OrBot plus a browser, but unfortunately its author abandoned it. Again, though, not actually the web, though email through Tor is not exactly easy to use either. Speaking of which, there's also a standalone Bote app. You can only send messages to other Bote users, but it's easier to set up and probably more secure than Tor-based solutions due to the lack of a central target, despite the concerns about I2P's security you mention below. And honestly, imho, I2P is probably just a compromises as tor, but it's > so much more fucking obuscurant, to hide that possibility. I tried using > it for a while. Fucking useless and continues to be so. > This continues to be my main concern about I2P. It hasn't had nearly the attention Tor has. It could have gaping holes and we wouldn't necessarily know about them, while any holes in Tor have to be subtle at this point, opinions about Tor's funding & governance model notwithstanding. > No one's mentioned Retroshare. It seems a likely candidate. > I keep meaning to spend more time looking at that. Thanks for the reminder. > > Rr > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3561 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 00:22:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:22:33 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160719072233.GP16437@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > As far as your other missive's link goes: > > Erdogan Taunts Obama Over Coup Attempt in Turkey > Erdogan will not forgive the Obama administration for leading him up the > garden path on Syria, convincing him that Washington was leaving no > stone unturned to overthrow the Assad regime > http://atimes.com/2016/07/erdogan-taunts-obama-over-turkeys-coup-bid/ > > > > Erdogan's hand is ISIS, and they're already all over Europe thanks to > the Russian AF rout, Rayzer, seriously, are you serious? Which North Atlantic + European military bloc rhyming with poTATO is Turkey+Erdogan a member of again? (Hint: NATO.) And which country is Syria's primary military partner and long term ally again? (Hint: Russia.) And who was it that intended to overthrow Syria again? (Hint: USA.) And who was it that established ISIS, trained, funded and provided weapons to ISIS collaborators, provided military and logistical support to invade Syria and was loudly proclaiming for 4 years that "Assad must go"? (Hint: USA.) Did you not watch that interview/ talk by USA General Wesley Clark? Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YtF76s-yM http://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-going-to-take-out-7-countries-in-5-years-iraq-syria-lebanon-libya-somalia-sudan-iran/5166 (article links to the full Wesley Clark interview - recommended (I'd only seen the short most significant part before) Rayzer, you are parroting the establishment/ MSM position, is that position truthful? (Hint: it is a lie.) To remind ourselves of a few further facts: - The first refugee waves into Europe came from Afganistan and then Iraq. - The second refugee wave into Europe came from Libya. Until Qaddafi's murder at the hands of Hillary "We came, we saw, he died" Clinton, Libya essentially "captured" a lot of African refugees (look how many CIA ops and USA MIC wars are going on in Africa), and Libya provided a lot of employment, hope, accomodation and, relatively speaking, stability. Look at the immigration of actual refugees into Europe since Libya was "democratically liberated" by the West (USA, France, Germany, UK). - Only the third wave comes from Syria, and this wave of refugees into Europe from Syria began --way-- before Russia went into Syria to rescue her ally, only in November/December last year (Hint: 2015)! And this third wave has predominantly been from Turkey, not Syria - and Erdogan used it as blackmail for a few billion $Euro from Germany - many times Erdogan was blackmailing in fact. Turkey to Lesbos (Greek island) has been a main conduit for Syrian, Iraqi and Afghani refugees, for one example. If you look at the media though, you see a different story (the lie that is), you see all this "ooh, so much Muslim refugees into Europe, since BAD RUSSIA went to defend Syria!" > and they ARE mixed in with the refugee population, > and they HAVE terrorized those refugees to not talk, and IF Erdogan > doesn't get a BIG part of the Syrian Partition pie... Selah... Since you seem to know details about Erdogan's deals with Russia, perhaps you care to share them with the rest of us? From tedks at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 17:23:45 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:23:45 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160720000717.GC16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <20160720000717.GC16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Feel free to tell me how any of that relates, even remotely, to what I said. On July 19, 2016 5:07:17 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:22:05PM -0700, Ted Smith wrote: >... > >Feel free to demonstrate how the USA champions democratic principles, >respect for sovereignty (national and individual - corporation >sovereignty is the problem, not the solution) and the rule of law, as >it >(the USA BIMSIC - banking, industrial, military, suveillance, injustice >complex) drones humans to death, every day, in at least 12 countries. > >Feel free to initiate a thread on how we might engender, induce or >otherwise educate our fellow humans to find authority within >themselves, >to stand for a principle greater than meat pies and footy, and to act >in >pursuance of such a principle. Many of us a flat out of ideas - really. > >And also, feel free to point out how "my" "democratically elected" >"leaders" here in Australia are really doing a fine and upstanding job >at the helm of this great land, how we should all, individually and >collectively be striving to emulate them and how this will lead us into >a better place, a better world, a better future. > >Please, and seriously, any such bit of positive news would be good for >my ears as much as for yours, 'cause mostly all I see going on all >around the world today is ludicrous unethical evil actions, idiots >strutting around as "leaders" spouting abominations against all human >decency, common sense and righteousness! > >Please, do enlighten me - I'll wait... -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 00:41:13 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:41:13 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > the Russian AF rout, PS, what does "AF" mean? From seanl at literati.org Tue Jul 19 11:07:05 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:07:05 +0000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Participate as a country, dope as a country, get banned as a country. Maybe Russia should clean its house if it wants representation at the games. Or if the institution itself is illegitimate, why do Russians want to represent their country so badly at the games? On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 5:11 AM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > If anyone wanted an example of propaganda and political bullying: > > "The IAAF and now the sports bodies of the US and Canada are not only > demanding that Russian athletes prove their innocence before they can > take part in the Games. They also demand that even if athletes prove > their innocence, they should only be allowed to take part in the Games > as “neutrals” and not as Russians. Thus even if proved innocent Russian > athletes would have to deny their nation and their country – foregoing > the right to wear its colours or hear its anthem if they win." > > http://theduran.com/stalinist-witch-hunt-russian-athletes/ > > > (I'm not sure anyone takes seriously the assertion that USA basically > does not use propaganda, only speaks truth and righteousness - I find it > quite amazing that such an assertion was even put in this mailing list > but I guess it's possible -some- people do believe that...) > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1668 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Tue Jul 19 11:14:59 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:14:59 +0000 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: <20160719073730.GD843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> <20160719073730.GD843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:43 AM Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:50:10PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > > The Chinese are pro-China, but they recognize that the US is a very large > > market for Chinese goods, and for now their economy is built on exports. > > I think this is only partial explanation. China is _very big_ exporter. > > > The problem is not that the US has too much debt. The problem is that the > > US is running out of credit. And by "credit" I mean generically *trust.* > No > > Not according to the financial rating charlatans. USA rating varies > between AAA/Aaa/AA+ (AAA is best possible AFAICT) . > Exactly. These are the same people who gave mortgage-backed securities the same rating. And we saw what happened the last time a ratings agency tried to downgrade US government debt: they got "investigated." All the ratings agencies have privileged standing in US law; many entities, in particular government pension plans, are only allowed to invest in "investment grade" instruments, with "investment grade" being determined by one of a specific set of corporations. Given that they're paid by the people selling the instruments rather than by investors, they'd just evaporate if they lost their special standing under US law. And this is after they were discussing default in congress and candidate > president wants to pay only 85% of the debt... Pretty much the > definition of Ponzi scheme. > Yup. The Ponzi scheme most of the world's financial system is built on (is, really). So the question is, what form will its collapse take, and how long will it take? I'm not sure if I'd prefer that it be quick and extremely painful or slow to give people who have a clue what's going on time to insulate themselves. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:19:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:19:31 -0300 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: <578DEA95.9020306@riseup.net> References: <578db1b0.4941370a.479d6.1be3@mx.google.com> <578DEA95.9020306@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578e98ab.d030c80a.d3fae.71b6@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 02:53:41 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/18/2016 10:53 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 00:30:44 -0400 > > grarpamp wrote: > > > >> http://archive.is/T8Hlu > > > >> Changed 47 seconds ago by cypherpunks > >> Tor spoke doing as SJW's did, part and parcel. > >> Tor is vulnerable to GPA etc. > >> Tor eats at table of USGOV. > >> Tor is in the hands of pop meta players now, > >> not OG hackers and activists. > > > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if "cypherpunks" is grarpamp. > > Anyway, whoever "cypherpunks" is, he's a dumb liar. Tor always was > > vulnerable to 'GPAs', always was funded by the US nazis, and > > completely in bed with the US gov't. Any 'hackers' who > > worked for tor were and are nothing but unprincipled US gov't > > lapdogs. > > Tor bug tracker uses "cypherpunks" for anonymous postings. AHAHA! That's even crazier... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:34:26 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:34:26 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:31:09 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > >> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable > >> by design. > > > > > > keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully > > satisfied yet. > > He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after all. > > But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US > military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure > communication, but only by making it public, for use by both funders > and their enemies. Oh come on Mirimir. As 'we' know, they did the only thing they could have done. The only way for them to be able to exploit their users as cover is by making the system 'public' and 'free'. They didn't do it because of ANY altruistic and humanitarian motivation. They had no other choice, and it was good propaganda to boot! So, 1) They need human shields, their abused 'users' 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. > > It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to US > military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's > intentionally designed to be vulnerable. The distinction looks rather subtle. It's actually invisible and non-existent from my point of view... > There's also the fact that > nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to > global adversaries. Hardly surprising cosidering how powerful the US government is and how far its control over 'industry' and 'academy' goes. It includes the 'community' of sold out 'hackers' too. Also, it should be obvious that having bad and *subsidized* systems like tor fucks up the 'market' for security. > So it seems unlikely that he had such a design > that he put aside as unsellable. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:38:42 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:38:42 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > > all along about Tor Inc. > > Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) > > If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government uses it > for evil. So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT SECURE. Is something unclear? > It's the same argument that we make about encryption > generally. No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities that your enemies don't have. > > As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. What wouldn't work? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:57:15 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:57:15 -0300 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move > to something allegedly better? We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor are resources that can't be used in good projects. > > Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. > > For a start, I would like to know: > > 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? > 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? > 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? > 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > > As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with > USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. Of course it does. As a matter of fact tor cunts dingledine and syverson are part of mit, or part of mit projects like 'dissent'. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:59:09 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 18:59:09 -0300 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: <20160719160907.GF843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719160907.GF843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <578ea1f9.464b370a.470ee.d05f@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:09:07 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:55:59AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > From: Sebastian Hahn > > To: tor-internal at lists.torproject.org, > > Well, who leaked that? > > Some possibilities include: > > 1. Someone legally subscribed to tor-internal. Tor internal? What is that? What, the tor cunts, the universal champions of 'transparency' (and human rights!) have a little 'secret' list to discuss their little dirty secrets? =) Aren't they oh so cute and transparent! From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 19 09:09:07 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:09:07 +0300 Subject: Lucky Green Quits Tor Hard [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160719160907.GF843@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 05:55:59AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > From: Sebastian Hahn > To: tor-internal at lists.torproject.org, Well, who leaked that? Some possibilities include: 1. Someone legally subscribed to tor-internal. 2. Someone illegally subscribed to tor-internal. 3. Someone owning the mail server/network near it. 4. Someone owning tor developer subscribed. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 02:15:30 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:15:30 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan Message-ID: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right all along about Tor Inc. From s at ctrlc.hu Tue Jul 19 10:17:25 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:17:25 +0200 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160719171725.GA31591@ctrlc.hu> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 08:34:05AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > > from the top of my head: > > dissent, > > riffle, > > i2p, > > mixminion > > pynchon-gate > > percy++ > > NONE of these are intended for the same target audience as tor. IOW NONE > of the above could CONCEIVABLY be used by a journalist or > computer-illiterate dissident in Tanzania right NOW. this was not my interpretation of "alternatives to tor", and surely some come with much reduced functionality, percy++ just being a library. there's much more use-cases than using a browser anonymously, in some of these use-cases tor can indeed be replaced by these technologies. also i still consider that some people on this list are actually building stuff, instead of being overly verbose, and for those, at least pynchon gate and percy++ should be interesting building blocks. a real alternative to tor would tackle the GPA issue, for that i think the only solution is high-latency, that means also that browsing the web will be quite a different experience with such. btw david chaums cmix is also an interesting inspiration for a replacement in certain use-cases, but surely not in general either. and not for dissidents in tanzania now (which was no explicit requirement anyways). but then those dissidents probably have also problems with computers in general including tor. > And honestly, imho, I2P is probably just a compromises as tor, but it's > so much more fucking obuscurant, to hide that possibility. I tried using > it for a while. Fucking useless and continues to be so. we agree on this one. however this was not the point of the question i believe, and as such fits as an answer. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 02:30:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:30:57 +1000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160719093057.GS16437@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44:16AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move > to something allegedly better? Great question Georgi. > Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. > > For a start, I would like to know: > > 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? I2P has been touted, but despite a stated intention, it still lacks the most relevant fundamental enhancement over tor: - chaff traffic (i.e. maintain e.g. a 15kibps connection to each of my direct peers, throtting and chaff-filling as needed to achieve that) > 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? > 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? > 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? > 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > > As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with > USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. Fundamentals of any stack for any system are: - physical concept - N2N/ neighbour to neighbour vs software overlay on existing ISP based centralised "Internet" as people know it today - hardware - open cores are available - but audit trails and distribution networks and more still need to be solved conceptually, before any sort of kickstarter/ community group funding - ability/ tools/ software for small community groups to randomly audit a random chip, circuit board, ethernet jack, etc, to verify that it conforms to a FLOSS design - bios and firmware - EVERY piece of the stack MUST be FLOSS! - needs to be audited - drivers - more FLOSS required - need a minimal set, to go with chosen hardware - needs to be audited - network stack - floss of course - needs to be audited Pick any level of the stack, have a think, and contribute. My current pet thought lorenz well is the network stack - twould be good to have an analysis of available stack, comparing them re various attributes, including: - simplicity - dependencies - libraries, data structures - suitability to user space operation - what application-level APIs/ libraries would we want to target, e.g. just UDP (not TCP :), sockets, SCTP, ethernet, more? - "flexibility" - to what level is it field tested? Sadly, there is much work to do before we can even begin to satisfy the Juan's of the world :/ From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 02:42:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:42:40 +1000 Subject: Pepe Escobar - Why the Pentagon and NATO Are Bluffing Message-ID: <20160719094240.GT16437@x220-a02> Enjoyable and grounded "where we're at now" sitrep from the ever entertaining Pepe Escobar, with some interesting (for my little mind) viewpoints: Why the Pentagon and NATO Are Bluffing "All bets are off if we have a Full Spectrum Dominatrix in Washington in 2017" http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/07/17/why-pentagon-and-nato-are-bluffing.html http://russia-insider.com/en/why-pentagon-and-nato-are-bluffing/ri15697 Also, that article links to a previous recent Escobar wrap, which my aging LCD monitor is half way through and riveted by: Beware what you wish for: Russia is ready for war https://www.rt.com/op-edge/344002-beware-russia-war-us/ Enjoy From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 02:52:23 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:52:23 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160719095223.GU16437@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 03:40:20AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > > all along about Tor Inc. > > Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) > > If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government uses it > for evil. It's the same argument that we make about encryption > generally. Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. Oh come on! What's a little backdoor between enemies? Picky picky... From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 20:12:34 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:12:34 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3fcab771-c683-8b7c-5bcc-c84b1c4d7bec@riseup.net> >>> Juan's a federal troll. As he elicit responses to his spew he sends >>> the info off to his handlers to build elaborate psycho-emotional >>> profiles on list users. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 03:24:59 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:24:59 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160719102459.GV16437@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:10:44AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 01:41 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:54:19PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> the Russian AF rout, > > > > PS, what does "AF" mean? > > Afghanistan ;) Oh ok, well, my initial non thinking assumption that it was some military term proves how I should have asked first before jamming foot in mouth. Now I have another question - what does Rayzer mean by "the Russian AF rout"? From jjr2 at gmx.com Tue Jul 19 03:44:17 2016 From: jjr2 at gmx.com (Jason Richards) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:44:17 +1000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719093057.GS16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719093057.GS16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160719204417.0f55e057@localhost.localdomain> >> 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > > I2P has been touted, but despite a stated intention, it still lacks > the most relevant fundamental enhancement over tor: > - chaff traffic (i.e. maintain e.g. a 15kibps connection to each of my > direct peers, throtting and chaff-filling as needed to achieve that) I2P is a good contender to replace hidden services, but isn't really designed to replace the routing/anonymization for access to the clearnet. Maybe JAP for that aspect? Tor has a lot of traction, I don't see anything replacing it until/unless it disappears. Any overlay network has a lot of hard yards to do to become popular, as Tor and I2P have discovered. J From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 19 20:56:14 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:56:14 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578ef2b0.57a5370a.c8c25.1bf6@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> <3fcab771-c683-8b7c-5bcc-c84b1c4d7bec@riseup.net> <578ef2b0.57a5370a.c8c25.1bf6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 07/19/2016 08:43 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:12:34 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> Juan's a federal troll. > So where's the evidence? Perhaps the evidence is all my > consistent anti-state posts? (unlike yours) > > > The evidence is the consistency of your trolling. That's what you do There are two options as to why that consistency... A> You're mentally defective and have a bad case of "Any attention is good attention" syndrome. B> You're cataloging responses to your trolling. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 05:02:41 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:02:41 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games Message-ID: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> If anyone wanted an example of propaganda and political bullying: "The IAAF and now the sports bodies of the US and Canada are not only demanding that Russian athletes prove their innocence before they can take part in the Games. They also demand that even if athletes prove their innocence, they should only be allowed to take part in the Games as “neutrals” and not as Russians. Thus even if proved innocent Russian athletes would have to deny their nation and their country – foregoing the right to wear its colours or hear its anthem if they win." http://theduran.com/stalinist-witch-hunt-russian-athletes/ (I'm not sure anyone takes seriously the assertion that USA basically does not use propaganda, only speaks truth and righteousness - I find it quite amazing that such an assertion was even put in this mailing list but I guess it's possible -some- people do believe that...) From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jul 19 19:13:00 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:13:00 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> Message-ID: <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/16/2016 06:22 PM, Joy wrote: > - - - Begin forwarded message - - - > > Date: July 15, 2016 at 3:21:32 PM EDT From: Herb Lin > To: "'David Farber (dave at farber.net)'" > , ip Subject: Call for input to > President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the > trust gap between the IT community and the US government > You may know that President Obama has established a commission to > consider how to strengthen cybersecurity in both the public and > private sectors while protecting privacy, ensuring public safety > and economic and national security, fostering discovery and > development of new technical solutions, and bolstering partnerships > between Federal, State, and local government and the private sector > in the development, promotion, and use of cybersecurity > technologies, policies, and best practices. The mission defined above is much more ambitious than it may initially appear, because direct conflicts of interest are hard wired into it. The "cybersecurity" buzzword embraces a spectrum of practical security context from protecting consumer financial credentials through shielding "secret" government databases from unauthorized access, to preventing malicious alteration of the firmware that runs our civil and industrial infrastructure. Privacy is not encompassed by the term "cybersecurity" as it is intended and understood by those who use presently use it in a national policy context - but this can and should change. Network security addresses practical concerns of privacy, utility, reliability and cost effectiveness as well as countermeasures to stereotypical hacker threats. The express inclusion of privacy protection in its brief directs the Commission to deliver recommendations directly counter to the interests of private enterprises and government departments which presently collect, analyze, and transfer or act on "private" information about individuals and groups. If economic security is taken to include protecting the revenue streams of dominant U.S. IT vendors and their associated armies of specialized workers in the field, either "cybersecurity" or economic security must be sacrificed. If national security is taken to include protecting intelligence service access to surveillance and sabotage targets via widely distributed security defects in IT products and services, either "cybersecurity" or national security must be sacrificed. A security model can not be "just a little bit pregnant." Every variance or exception that permits violations of any system's specified security protocol creates new vulnerabilities that compromise the security of that system, usually in subtle as well as obvious ways. Security threats are both external and internal to the enterprise, and include hackers who want to break in for fun and/or profit, but also: Enterprise IT consumers who who make non-negotiable demands for features and functions that create security vulnerabilities; senior executives whose golfing buddies know more about network security than the enterprise's entire IT staff; IT vendors who are free to hide deficiencies and misrepresent their wares under immunity from prosecution or civil liability; academics and consultants whose personal fortunes rise and fall with the value of vendor-specific credentials; and certified technical workforces whose educational and occupational background is restricted to a vendor specific context, and includes mandatory training as outside sales reps for those same vendors. Add to this the massive political influence of dominant U.S. IT vendors' senior executives and major shareholders, and our picture of an industry hard wired for security failure is complete. The expected end result of the complex of counter-security factors outlined above would be smoking rubble, and that is and apt description of prevailing network security conditions. Pervasive "cybersecurity" failures have prompted the Executive branch to prepare for intervention across both government and private sector domains; in itself this is evidence that a deep systemic disorder harmful to the National Interest has been recognized and acknowledged. Developing a functional model that explains why an emergency exists is the first step toward reliably and durably ending it. The inclusive nature of the Commission's mandate requires it to address "cybersecurity" in a holistic manner. The systemic disorders listed above are inherent in the present economic and political relationships of parties whose inputs control IT security across all domains. Effective solutions will be called "radical" and rightly so, as one must change the underlying economic and political relationships that drive the ongoing failure of "cybersecurity" to achieve meaningful results. Bolting layers of external reinforcement onto a broken machine does not fix the machine, only prolongs its ability to produce broken outputs. Like an urban renewal project, implementing an effective national "cybersecurity" strategy begins with a wrecking ball. If this is not an acceptable option, "enhanced cybersecurity" is not a possible outcome. > Recognizing that trust is hard to build and easy to destroy (and a > variety of things have happened over the last 20 years have > occurred to do the latter), one issue that has come up is the > enormous gap of trust between the U.S. government and the > information technology (IT) community, from which many IPers are > drawn. This rift is not helpful to either side, and I'd like to > solicit input from the IP community about what you think the > government can do or refrain from doing to help bridge that gap. In the present context, trust has two distinct and nearly opposite definitions: In a political context, trust means confidence cultivated to further a collaborative and/or manipulative agenda. In a network security context, trust is a controlled asset whose role is minimized on every front and excluded where and as possible: A trusted actor or system is one that can break your security model. A competent IT security strategy compartmentalizes, simplifies and hardens the handling of protected assets. Tools must be selected and protocols designed on a case by case basis to enable a given enterprise or department's necessary functions while minimizing exposure of its assets to hostile actors. Trust is rationed, and dispensed only where and as the benefits of trust outweigh the risks. As a simple example illustrating the role of trust in "cybersecurity," all major web browsers automatically download and execute software as directed by any website their users visit, without the user's knowledge or express consent. Large families of critical security vulnerabilities grow from this promiscuous trust model. Many botnets propagate themselves via this vector, which has also enabled targeted attacks compromising "secured" assets affecting major corporations and government agencies. Browser makers build automatic execution of 3rd party software into their browsers because both end users and major commercial website operators demand it. Vendor efforts to mitigate this critical security threat by 'sanitizing and sandboxing' incoming executable code can reduce but not reliably prevent high impact security incidents arising from a fundamentally insecure trust model. Informed end users can install tools like NoScript which prevent the browser from downloading and executing software without the user's express consent. Individual websites can be whitelisted by the user, where and as the benefits of automatically executing arbitrary software from a given site are believed to outweigh the risks of doing so. In practice this trivially simple trust based security measure has proven itself orders of magnitude more effective than a promiscuous trust model "mitigated" by complex, failure prone defenses against hostile code. Bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government is already a done deal, because there has never been one. The U.S. government funded and directed the creation of the IT industry. As indicated above, the existing bridges enabling public/private partnership in IT enterprises create promiscuous trust relationships in the face of conflicts of interest, perverse incentives and institutional inertia all working against the objectives of "cybersecurity." Rather than reinforcing them, these bridges must be locked down or removed as the first step toward enhancing "cybersecurity." > 1 - Your best examples of things the government (and what part of > the US government) has done to alienate the IT community > specifically. (Or, at the very least, show how the examples you > provide connect to the interests of the IT community.) The U.S. government has not alienated the IT community: It has shielded this community from liability for fraudulent performance claims, fed it billions of dollars of annual revenue, and given Fortune 500 IT corporations nearly full control of government policy affecting those same corporations. The intimate partnership of IT vendors and government decision makers has, however, alienated a large segment of the public at large. With regard to privacy concerns, IT vendors are correctly perceived as the government's partners in domestic mass surveillance. The interests of the IT community are directly served by the government's nearly absolute tolerance for commercial mass surveillance, inherently insecure products and protocols, forced obsolescence strategies and abusive marketing practices - all of which are routinely implemented by major IT vendors to reduce costs and/or enhance revenues. The current condition of gross insecurity across private and State owned IT assets is a product of the dominant role of vendors who are richly rewarded for exploiting the technological ignorance of private and public sector decision makers. The cumulative cost of unstable, insecure IT infrastructure supplied and serviced by parasitic vendors greatly exceeds the short term costs of replacement with stable, security oriented infrastructure; but perverse incentives and conflicts of interest assure that no such course can be taken absent dynamic and determined public sector leadership. > 2 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > short and medium term (i.e., 0-10 year time frame) that would help > bridge the trust gap. If your answer is "Don't do dumb things!", > it would be better and more useful to provide *examples* of what > not to do. Revoke software vendors' blanket immunity from prosecution for consumer fraud and from liability for damage caused by failure to control product defects. Where there is no accountability, there is no motivation to spend money on security and no rational basis for consumer trust. The infallible invisible hand of the Free Market can not produce security, quality or innovation where the State grants special immunity from prosecution and civil liability to privileged parties. Mandate security evaluations based on performance and design metrics for all software (and firmware) purchased for use by government agencies and departments. These evaluations must include examination of the specific product offerings under consideration, and the bidder's historical security track record across all products. Total cost of ownership calculations for IT assets must include estimated costs of potential security failures, and projected costs of recovery from same, proportionally adjusted to reflect the relative security performance of each competing bidder's products. This could be facilitated by the establishment of a transparent, accountable Federal activity that collects relevant data and produces reports in a standardized format consistent with government procurement process. Mandate reporting of security incidents by every government activity, and every commercial enterprise with a State or Federal tax ID, where financial losses and costs of remediation and recovery from the incident exceed $5,000.00. Require reporting of the category of failure, specific software tools that presented the vulnerabilities exploited, direct losses incurred, and the costs of remedial and recovery measures taken. Specify that aggregate data from these reports be made available to the public on at least a quarterly basis. Direct the Federal Communication Commission to conduct and annually review studies on the privacy impacts, positive and negative, of deployed and proposed network communication protocols and Standards, publicly report their findings, and solicit public comments in a transparent process. Mandate that all reports reference IETF RFC 6973, Privacy Considerations, as guidance in identifying, naming and evaluating adverse and beneficial privacy impacts of deployed and proposed network communication protocols and architectures. > 3 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in the > longer term to do the same. See above. A durable commitment of all necessary resources to assure that the measures suggested in response to query 2 are effectively implemented would create and sustain rational, constrained trust relationships affecting all those aspects of "cybersecurity" which are properly the government's business. The requirement that recommendations be "realistic" is regrettable. "Practicable" would have been better language. A realistic proposal might be considered as one that will not provoke a do-or-die defense of the status quo from dominant IT vendors, U.S. intelligence activities, and others whose bread and butter is "cyber insecurity." A practicable proposal would be one that is within the scope of public policy authorities and industry capabilities: Vendors who assert that requirements are "impossible" or simply refuse to comply will be replaced by vendors who are ready to step forward and meet any challenges presented. Solutions to many of today's most serious and widespread network security failures are already avaialbe as off the shelf products from vendors with excellent security track records. The proposals presented under query 3 above may not be considered reasonable by dominant industry stakeholders, but they are practicable, and these or materially similar policy initiatives are necessary if the President is serious about getting the results he has asked for. Steve Kinney -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjt4rAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqOlMH/2Pb88LKcsAeOQMlBrqNrd7b WR5PYY5302/JmujeJkkA3n/AwzRsVwtnOLJ9JyfpRbbiml8qIiP98rcfsjeUO6jh 3z+13y96Y/pKMWOCDPuiBrFTTR6rk77MaxrXCJSZaeSrSAhRpNFKwmuShIjdVXPB F1ecYyaOwOCVva+keigKMDPwG6o2pgBErMS8FFYfvTWSeJgMKg9ZNsa5XuJzrbV2 PN/K/+i1LyCekpyvycc/dKY+maV70bMjKMEOIz9QNfZc4V+4AtBRjzlnSp/wDJY9 YpnryYMNVK6CtBciGfutq9ujdvZIn4H6z9coUXOv4RMLEFqFmIXHphXxSUzkDOI= =IHnQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jul 19 19:22:52 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:22:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <6f7be65b-5168-7f8f-1f83-3cb8e32c951b@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Maybe I will finally qualify for the title Statist Pig with this post. One can only hope. Contrary to the original query's request that replies not consist of "don't do dumb things," I have composed a very elaborate text that actually says, "don't do dumb things." :o) On 07/19/2016 10:13 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 07/16/2016 06:22 PM, Joy wrote: >> - - - Begin forwarded message - - - > >> Date: July 15, 2016 at 3:21:32 PM EDT From: Herb Lin >> To: "'David Farber (dave at farber.net)'" >> , ip Subject: Call for input >> to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging >> the trust gap between the IT community and the US government > >> You may know that President Obama has established a commission >> to consider how to strengthen cybersecurity in both the public >> and private sectors while protecting privacy, ensuring public >> safety and economic and national security, fostering discovery >> and development of new technical solutions, and bolstering >> partnerships between Federal, State, and local government and the >> private sector in the development, promotion, and use of >> cybersecurity technologies, policies, and best practices. > > The mission defined above is much more ambitious than it may > initially appear, because direct conflicts of interest are hard > wired into it. The "cybersecurity" buzzword embraces a spectrum of > practical security context from protecting consumer financial > credentials through shielding "secret" government databases from > unauthorized access, to preventing malicious alteration of the > firmware that runs our civil and industrial infrastructure. > Privacy is not encompassed by the term "cybersecurity" as it is > intended and understood by those who use presently use it in a > national policy context - but this can and should change. > > Network security addresses practical concerns of privacy, utility, > reliability and cost effectiveness as well as countermeasures to > stereotypical hacker threats. The express inclusion of privacy > protection in its brief directs the Commission to deliver > recommendations directly counter to the interests of private > enterprises and government departments which presently collect, > analyze, and transfer or act on "private" information about > individuals and groups. If economic security is taken to include > protecting the revenue streams of dominant U.S. IT vendors and > their associated armies of specialized workers in the field, > either "cybersecurity" or economic security must be sacrificed. If > national security is taken to include protecting intelligence > service access to surveillance and sabotage targets via widely > distributed security defects in IT products and services, either > "cybersecurity" or national security must be sacrificed. > > A security model can not be "just a little bit pregnant." Every > variance or exception that permits violations of any system's > specified security protocol creates new vulnerabilities that > compromise the security of that system, usually in subtle as well > as obvious ways. Security threats are both external and internal to > the enterprise, and include hackers who want to break in for fun > and/or profit, but also: Enterprise IT consumers who who make > non-negotiable demands for features and functions that create > security vulnerabilities; senior executives whose golfing buddies > know more about network security than the enterprise's entire IT > staff; IT vendors who are free to hide deficiencies and > misrepresent their wares under immunity from prosecution or civil > liability; academics and consultants whose personal fortunes rise > and fall with the value of vendor-specific credentials; and > certified technical workforces whose educational and occupational > background is restricted to a vendor specific context, and includes > mandatory training as outside sales reps for those same vendors. > Add to this the massive political influence of dominant U.S. IT > vendors' senior executives and major shareholders, and our picture > of an industry hard wired for security failure is complete. The > expected end result of the complex of counter-security factors > outlined above would be smoking rubble, and that is and apt > description of prevailing network security conditions. > > Pervasive "cybersecurity" failures have prompted the Executive > branch to prepare for intervention across both government and > private sector domains; in itself this is evidence that a deep > systemic disorder harmful to the National Interest has been > recognized and acknowledged. Developing a functional model that > explains why an emergency exists is the first step toward reliably > and durably ending it. The inclusive nature of the Commission's > mandate requires it to address "cybersecurity" in a holistic > manner. The systemic disorders listed above are inherent in the > present economic and political relationships of parties whose > inputs control IT security across all domains. > > Effective solutions will be called "radical" and rightly so, as > one must change the underlying economic and political relationships > that drive the ongoing failure of "cybersecurity" to achieve > meaningful results. Bolting layers of external reinforcement onto > a broken machine does not fix the machine, only prolongs its > ability to produce broken outputs. Like an urban renewal project, > implementing an effective national "cybersecurity" strategy begins > with a wrecking ball. If this is not an acceptable option, > "enhanced cybersecurity" is not a possible outcome. > >> Recognizing that trust is hard to build and easy to destroy (and >> a variety of things have happened over the last 20 years have >> occurred to do the latter), one issue that has come up is the >> enormous gap of trust between the U.S. government and the >> information technology (IT) community, from which many IPers are >> drawn. This rift is not helpful to either side, and I'd like to >> solicit input from the IP community about what you think the >> government can do or refrain from doing to help bridge that gap. > > In the present context, trust has two distinct and nearly opposite > definitions: In a political context, trust means confidence > cultivated to further a collaborative and/or manipulative agenda. > In a network security context, trust is a controlled asset whose > role is minimized on every front and excluded where and as > possible: A trusted actor or system is one that can break your > security model. > > A competent IT security strategy compartmentalizes, simplifies and > hardens the handling of protected assets. Tools must be selected > and protocols designed on a case by case basis to enable a given > enterprise or department's necessary functions while minimizing > exposure of its assets to hostile actors. Trust is rationed, and > dispensed only where and as the benefits of trust outweigh the > risks. > > As a simple example illustrating the role of trust in > "cybersecurity," all major web browsers automatically download and > execute software as directed by any website their users visit, > without the user's knowledge or express consent. Large families of > critical security vulnerabilities grow from this promiscuous trust > model. Many botnets propagate themselves via this vector, which > has also enabled targeted attacks compromising "secured" assets > affecting major corporations and government agencies. Browser > makers build automatic execution of 3rd party software into their > browsers because both end users and major commercial website > operators demand it. Vendor efforts to mitigate this critical > security threat by 'sanitizing and sandboxing' incoming executable > code can reduce but not reliably prevent high impact security > incidents arising from a fundamentally insecure trust model. > > Informed end users can install tools like NoScript which prevent > the browser from downloading and executing software without the > user's express consent. Individual websites can be whitelisted by > the user, where and as the benefits of automatically executing > arbitrary software from a given site are believed to outweigh the > risks of doing so. In practice this trivially simple trust based > security measure has proven itself orders of magnitude more > effective than a promiscuous trust model "mitigated" by complex, > failure prone defenses against hostile code. > > Bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US > government is already a done deal, because there has never been > one. The U.S. government funded and directed the creation of the > IT industry. As indicated above, the existing bridges enabling > public/private partnership in IT enterprises create promiscuous > trust relationships in the face of conflicts of interest, perverse > incentives and institutional inertia all working against the > objectives of "cybersecurity." Rather than reinforcing them, these > bridges must be locked down or removed as the first step toward > enhancing "cybersecurity." > >> 1 - Your best examples of things the government (and what part >> of the US government) has done to alienate the IT community >> specifically. (Or, at the very least, show how the examples you >> provide connect to the interests of the IT community.) > > The U.S. government has not alienated the IT community: It has > shielded this community from liability for fraudulent performance > claims, fed it billions of dollars of annual revenue, and given > Fortune 500 IT corporations nearly full control of government > policy affecting those same corporations. The intimate partnership > of IT vendors and government decision makers has, however, > alienated a large segment of the public at large. With regard to > privacy concerns, IT vendors are correctly perceived as the > government's partners in domestic mass surveillance. The interests > of the IT community are directly served by the government's nearly > absolute tolerance for commercial mass surveillance, inherently > insecure products and protocols, forced obsolescence strategies and > abusive marketing practices - all of which are routinely > implemented by major IT vendors to reduce costs and/or enhance > revenues. > > The current condition of gross insecurity across private and State > owned IT assets is a product of the dominant role of vendors who > are richly rewarded for exploiting the technological ignorance of > private and public sector decision makers. The cumulative cost of > unstable, insecure IT infrastructure supplied and serviced by > parasitic vendors greatly exceeds the short term costs of > replacement with stable, security oriented infrastructure; but > perverse incentives and conflicts of interest assure that no such > course can be taken absent dynamic and determined public sector > leadership. > >> 2 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in >> the short and medium term (i.e., 0-10 year time frame) that would >> help bridge the trust gap. If your answer is "Don't do dumb >> things!", it would be better and more useful to provide >> *examples* of what not to do. > > Revoke software vendors' blanket immunity from prosecution for > consumer fraud and from liability for damage caused by failure to > control product defects. Where there is no accountability, there > is no motivation to spend money on security and no rational basis > for consumer trust. The infallible invisible hand of the Free > Market can not produce security, quality or innovation where the > State grants special immunity from prosecution and civil liability > to privileged parties. > > Mandate security evaluations based on performance and design > metrics for all software (and firmware) purchased for use by > government agencies and departments. These evaluations must > include examination of the specific product offerings under > consideration, and the bidder's historical security track record > across all products. Total cost of ownership calculations for IT > assets must include estimated costs of potential security failures, > and projected costs of recovery from same, proportionally adjusted > to reflect the relative security performance of each competing > bidder's products. This could be facilitated by the establishment > of a transparent, accountable Federal activity that collects > relevant data and produces reports in a standardized format > consistent with government procurement process. > > Mandate reporting of security incidents by every government > activity, and every commercial enterprise with a State or Federal > tax ID, where financial losses and costs of remediation and > recovery from the incident exceed $5,000.00. Require reporting of > the category of failure, specific software tools that presented the > vulnerabilities exploited, direct losses incurred, and the costs of > remedial and recovery measures taken. Specify that aggregate data > from these reports be made available to the public on at least a > quarterly basis. > > Direct the Federal Communication Commission to conduct and > annually review studies on the privacy impacts, positive and > negative, of deployed and proposed network communication protocols > and Standards, publicly report their findings, and solicit public > comments in a transparent process. Mandate that all reports > reference IETF RFC 6973, Privacy Considerations, as guidance in > identifying, naming and evaluating adverse and beneficial privacy > impacts of deployed and proposed network communication protocols > and architectures. > >> 3 - Things that the U.S. government could realistically do in >> the longer term to do the same. > > See above. A durable commitment of all necessary resources to > assure that the measures suggested in response to query 2 are > effectively implemented would create and sustain rational, > constrained trust relationships affecting all those aspects of > "cybersecurity" which are properly the government's business. > > The requirement that recommendations be "realistic" is > regrettable. "Practicable" would have been better language. A > realistic proposal might be considered as one that will not provoke > a do-or-die defense of the status quo from dominant IT vendors, > U.S. intelligence activities, and others whose bread and butter is > "cyber insecurity." > > A practicable proposal would be one that is within the scope of > public policy authorities and industry capabilities: Vendors who > assert that requirements are "impossible" or simply refuse to > comply will be replaced by vendors who are ready to step forward > and meet any challenges presented. Solutions to many of today's > most serious and widespread network security failures are already > avaialbe as off the shelf products from vendors with excellent > security track records. The proposals presented under query 3 above > may not be considered reasonable by dominant industry stakeholders, > but they are practicable, and these or materially similar policy > initiatives are necessary if the President is serious about getting > the results he has asked for. > > Steve Kinney > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjuB8AAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq3a0H/irlhwCoGeBc9QFjnIT3OvPg AFDw/rw+NLwI7GrJyMyr+Sz4gxsC3CXGy5UuasLHtzDlN7nKN2kzvAYl3lj2TihD it8aoQ5C2oK5hGu/Vz12hjuH9DJxOHr1ctlACpyTBeIw5MwLJFap/MMi8Q76z/ZA 7X4tQLGeMCkQeHXS3wSmYTcMv1/Zg+LaYiTJ/Jnuy9hMlGDiv7mTGOEWsrPKZ4bT t1h+cFRKK+yPD99mYT3qc68jFlVGEas76IhQFNbXwUl8/N+eKRvXTJJpiWZtWbRN Xm8rZWr5aLnI2RNMiIPfn2YzhUQimQCVE1HnDn6yHMQg98DYzlqRYsBMWvTNIqM= =Mo7H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 06:01:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 23:01:52 +1000 Subject: Hillary Clinton's Benghazi gun running - CCB report Message-ID: <20160719130152.GX16437@x220-a02> http://journal-neo.org/2016/07/19/an-ominous-truth-obama-s-america-stands-for-no-one/ "Their [USA] refusal to even talk with Qaddafi to orchestrate a peaceful settlement on the eve of his death, that fact galvanizes their absolute intentions to overthrow the government. America put on the black hat out in the open for the first time ever in our history. Now Syria is a bloodbath." http://www.aim.org/benghazi/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CCB-Interim-Report-4-22-2014.pdf From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 19:33:10 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 23:33:10 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 16:22:05 -0700 Ted Smith wrote: > Juan, Zeeblocks, and the Cyrillic name guy are pretty obvious Russian > internet troll army sorts of people. That's been obvious for a while. So how many pro putin or even pro russia posts did I write, you dumb, dishonest fuck? =) Then again ted you are a full fledged pentagon fascist and the official syverson's cock sucker...your job description prevents you from saying anything sensible or decent. > (Who else links to Russia fucking today?) > > It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. I suggest you call homeland security. How many other 'anarchists' and 'cypherpunks' like you would join you in your crusade to defend...your full fledged american punk fascism? =) > > On July 19, 2016 7:54:00 AM PDT, Rayzer wrote: > > > > > >On 07/19/2016 02:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > >> all along about Tor Inc. > >> > > > >Right about what? That the feds, SPECIFICALLY THE PENTAGON, is > >responsible for EVERY PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY you'll ever use? Including > >microwave ovens and TeeVee dinners... > > > >You'd have to be an utter fucking RUBE, not to realize that. > > > >THE OBJECT, if you view life as a video game instead of a B-Movie, is > >to > >HIJACK their starship, and use it to destroy their Fleet before they > >destroy you. > > > >Juan's a federal troll. As he elicit responses to his spew he sends > >the info off to his handlers to build elaborate psycho-emotional > >profiles on > >list users. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 19:40:30 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 23:40:30 -0300 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <6f7be65b-5168-7f8f-1f83-3cb8e32c951b@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <6f7be65b-5168-7f8f-1f83-3cb8e32c951b@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578ee3e8.4da8370a.607e8.1286@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:22:52 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Maybe I will finally qualify for the title Statist Pig with this post. > One can only hope. I took a (very) quick look at your previos post and skipped it cause it seemed a bit too academic. OK, I'll have to read it... > > Contrary to the original query's request that replies not consist of > "don't do dumb things," I have composed a very elaborate text that > actually says, "don't do dumb things." > > :o) > From seanl at literati.org Tue Jul 19 16:42:09 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 23:42:09 +0000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 4:27 PM Ted Smith wrote: > Juan, Zeeblocks, and the Cyrillic name guy are pretty obvious Russian > internet troll army sorts of people. That's been obvious for a while. (Who > else links to Russia fucking today?) > What, you can't copy and paste? Александр directly transliterates as "Aleksandr". I'm guessing from his email address that "Alex" might be acceptable. > It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. > I, for one, enjoy seeing a different perspective, and AFAICT it's no more biased than most of what I read in the Western MSM. And despite the fact that I may disagree with a lot of what they say, most of it is at least interesting, which I cannot say of everything posted here by others. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1312 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 19:51:20 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 23:51:20 -0300 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government In-Reply-To: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> Message-ID: <578ee672.fa26c80a.63958.1515@mx.google.com> On Sat, 16 Jul 2016 22:22:40 -0000 "Joy" wrote: > - - - Begin forwarded message - - - > > Date: July 15, 2016 at 3:21:32 PM EDT > From: Herb Lin > To: "'David Farber (dave at farber.net)'" , ip > Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on > Enhancing Cybersecurity - bridging the trust gap between the IT > community and the US government >> > Recognizing that trust is hard to build and easy to destroy (and a > variety of things have happened over the last 20 years have occurred > to do the latter), one issue that has come up is the enormous gap of > trust between the U.S. government and the information technology > (IT) community, So here we have a pathetic, fucking lie. As any retard should know, the american 'information technology' mafia is fully in bed with the american government. The US is a corporatocracy, and 'IT' corporations play a fundamental role as 'private' members of the US government. "gap of trust" - ROFL! From admin at pilobilus.net Tue Jul 19 21:29:10 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 00:29:10 -0400 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/19/2016 11:46 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:13:00 -0400 Steve Kinney > wrote: > >> Mandate security evaluations based on performance and design >> metrics for all software (and firmware) purchased for use by >> government agencies and departments. > > You do get a good amount of statist pig points for that one. > > Actually, the government must stop buying stuff and must start > giving back all the money they stole. I can dig it. But how to implement this? My strategy is to let Nature take its course; after the State collapses, surviving resources no longer under State control will be up for grabs. BTW, money as we know it is a fiction created and maintained by the State for the purpose of enriching the powerful at everyone else's expense. See how easy it is to fall into the trap of compliance with State sponsored assumpitons? :) >> Mandate reporting of security incidents by every government >> activity, and every commercial enterprise with a State or Federal >> tax ID, > > So yeah, statist bullshit. Note that this would only affect the State itself, and those who have made a positive commitment to submit to State dominion. >> Direct the Federal Communication Commission to conduct and >> annually review studies on the privacy impacts, > > And even more statist bullshit. > > And of course I now have to ask. First you correctly explain the > relationship between the 'industry' and the state and then expect > the state to regulate it? What? This ain't a call for regulation; it's just a call for public reporting by a State agency. ;) >> See above. A durable commitment of all necessary resources to >> assure that the measures suggested in response to query 2 are >> effectively implemented would create and sustain rational, >> constrained trust relationships affecting all those aspects of >> "cybersecurity" which are properly the government's business. > > So yeah, statist pig. Only if I expect this to produce real world results. Prescribing abstinence as a cure for alcoholism, or getting well as a cancer cure, would be similar in effect. >> A practicable proposal would be one that is within the scope of >> public policy authorities and industry capabilities: Vendors who >> assert that requirements are "impossible" or simply refuse to >> comply will be replaced by vendors who are ready to step forward >> and meet any challenges presented. Solutions to many of today's >> most serious and widespread network security failures are already >> avaialbe as off the shelf products from vendors with excellent >> security track records. > > such as? For a start, if my (impossible) suggestions were implemented, Microsoft would lose its most important State protections, all its government contracts, and a large part of its market share in the business and consumer markets. Those product lines would be largely replaced by UNIX model operating systems, Free software applications, etc. My first draft was an explicit Microsoft death sentence, I worked backward from there to create generic, vendor agnostic conditions that would assure the same result. No anarchists were harmed in the production of this policy brief. I wrote it because it amuses me to keep a hand in - I used to do quality assurance programs and the like, and sometimes I miss the games. Also to troll the Commission. Thank you for your feedback, and may I add, OINK OINK. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXjv4WAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqvdAIAK3cVa+zDIgUkCQNLQtCD7IO 1+1IiNaTmzR5NOpAZJYEstrOrxC0xfmAED3w471temR3c7BGI37MbJwGMIxHPfO0 kYAm3azEosnDOkUEvaOwj+mvskCgj6A58XAL9t82GX+vZnmHpO7c7QlMymnRKBmu 9KKzpSSlJEbCP8qZPb9kSPTMJ/sMSUTKaKgY8DwCtBBi1fSCah6AT8bnlgAhD2z6 aSE4/mnaWqDPez6gPPCkKXqCqyt63niYatcu+LBeA/5ifuzV3YXHQ8QwTgWLB30o sK9mmdH6F2YyqKV9yFBr7YyMRx05srSbaEIfrV+D9IK4sNE5ilL2QkD7QRbG+gY= =EyUm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:43:35 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 00:43:35 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <3fcab771-c683-8b7c-5bcc-c84b1c4d7bec@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> <3fcab771-c683-8b7c-5bcc-c84b1c4d7bec@riseup.net> Message-ID: <578ef2b0.57a5370a.c8c25.1bf6@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:12:34 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > Juan's a federal troll. So where's the evidence? Perhaps the evidence is all my consistent anti-state posts? (unlike yours) > As he elicit responses to his spew he sends the info off to his > handlers to build elaborate psycho-emotional profiles on list users. "elaborate psycho-emotional profiles" - wow that sounds like world-class tin foil hattery eh rayzer? Or perhaps that's what you do for a living...? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 20:46:32 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 00:46:32 -0300 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:13:00 -0400 Steve Kinney wrote: > Bridging the trust gap between the IT community and the US government > is already a done deal, because there has never been one. The U.S. > government funded and directed the creation of the IT industry. ^^^ quoted for truth > The U.S. government has not alienated the IT community: It has > shielded this community from liability for fraudulent performance > claims, fed it billions of dollars of annual revenue, and given > Fortune 500 IT corporations nearly full control of government policy > affecting those same corporations. so called patents and copyrights, i.e. government privileges, play a fundamental role too. > Mandate security evaluations based on performance and design metrics > for all software (and firmware) purchased for use by government > agencies and departments. You do get a good amount of statist pig points for that one. Actually, the government must stop buying stuff and must start giving back all the money they stole. > > Mandate reporting of security incidents by every government activity, > and every commercial enterprise with a State or Federal tax ID, So yeah, statist bullshit. > Direct the Federal Communication Commission to conduct and annually > review studies on the privacy impacts, And even more statist bullshit. And of course I now have to ask. First you correctly explain the relationship between the 'industry' and the state and then expect the state to regulate it? What? > See above. A durable commitment of all necessary resources to assure > that the measures suggested in response to query 2 are effectively > implemented would create and sustain rational, constrained trust > relationships affecting all those aspects of "cybersecurity" which are > properly the government's business. So yeah, statist pig. > > A practicable proposal would be one that is within the scope of public > policy authorities and industry capabilities: Vendors who assert that > requirements are "impossible" or simply refuse to comply will be > replaced by vendors who are ready to step forward and meet any > challenges presented. Solutions to many of today's most serious and > widespread network security failures are already avaialbe as off the > shelf products from vendors with excellent security track records. such as? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 21:19:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 01:19:45 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <578ee230.07b9370a.2939a.143d@mx.google.com> <3fcab771-c683-8b7c-5bcc-c84b1c4d7bec@riseup.net> <578ef2b0.57a5370a.c8c25.1bf6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578efb2c.0435c80a.4c806.1fe3@mx.google.com> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:56:14 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/19/2016 08:43 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 20:12:34 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > >> Juan's a federal troll. > > So where's the evidence? Perhaps the evidence is all my > > consistent anti-state posts? (unlike yours) > > > > > > > > The evidence is the consistency of your trolling. Well, for a commie statist like you, who's also a tor/pentagon/schneier/isreal propaganda agent, any consistent libertarian position is 'trolling'. Now, produce the evidence showing that I work for your government. No, my anti-state posts and my comments about you americunt fucks doesn't count as evidence (for any sane person of course, for you on the other hand...) > That's what you do > > There are two options as to why that consistency... > > A> You're mentally defective and have a bad case of "Any attention is > good attention" syndrome. > > B> You're cataloging responses to your trolling. > > > > From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 00:52:11 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 01:52:11 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right >>> all along about Tor Inc. >> >> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) >> >> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government uses it >> for evil. > > So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain > fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? > > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. If > on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT > SECURE. > > Is something unclear? What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what you've shared. So it sounds like just an assumption. >> It's the same argument that we make about encryption >> generally. > > No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > > >> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep >> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities > that your enemies don't have. That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > > What wouldn't work? Let's assume, hypothetically, that Tor is secure for everyone. And let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 01:02:29 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:02:29 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <20160719224607.GY16437@x220-a02> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <20160719224607.GY16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <578F3015.9030403@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 04:46 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the >> system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. > > GPA? Someone chasing a decent grade point average? GNU privacy assistant? GPA = global passive adversary And actually, they're global _active_ adversaries :( > We need a way to have a git backed WordNet or VERA local dictionary, > perhaps connected to wiktionary.org so we can sync new acronyms for our > command line tapping dict pleasure. > From mirimir at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 01:13:27 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:13:27 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 03:34 PM, juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:31:09 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 >>> Mirimir wrote: >>> >>>> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable >>>> by design. >>> >>> >>> keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully >>> satisfied yet. >> >> He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after all. >> >> But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US >> military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure >> communication, but only by making it public, for use by both funders >> and their enemies. > > Oh come on Mirimir. As 'we' know, they did the only thing they > could have done. > > The only way for them to be able to exploit their users as > cover is by making the system 'public' and 'free'. They didn't > do it because of ANY altruistic and humanitarian motivation. > They had no other choice, and it was good propaganda to boot! I didn't say that there was anything altruistic or humanitarian about it. And yes, they did what they had to do. > So, > > 1) They need human shields, their abused 'users' Yes, they do. All Tor users do, actually. > 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the > system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. I can't imagine how you know. I do agree that it's prudent to be suspicious. But no better alternatives have been implemented. So the best option that I see is layering stuff. Route Tor through nested VPNs. Route Mixmaster, Pond, Bitmessage, etc through Tor. Encrypt private stuff with GnuPG. >> It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to US >> military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's >> intentionally designed to be vulnerable. > > The distinction looks rather subtle. It's actually invisible and > non-existent from my point of view... Maybe so. >> There's also the fact that >> nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to >> global adversaries. > > Hardly surprising cosidering how powerful the US government is > and how far its control over 'industry' and 'academy' goes. It > includes the 'community' of sold out 'hackers' too. If your assessment is correct, we are truly fucked :( > Also, it should be obvious that having bad and *subsidized* > systems like tor fucks up the 'market' for security. Yes, it does :( >> So it seems unlikely that he had such a design >> that he put aside as unsellable. >> > > From tedks at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 05:05:51 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 05:05:51 -0700 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <2A5D15C8-3C1D-4A61-B171-0473F340B8EE@riseup.net> Quality cypherpunks content as always, Zenaan. If only they had encrypted the doping! On July 19, 2016 5:02:41 AM PDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >If anyone wanted an example of propaganda and political bullying: > >"The IAAF and now the sports bodies of the US and Canada are not only >demanding that Russian athletes prove their innocence before they can >take part in the Games. They also demand that even if athletes prove >their innocence, they should only be allowed to take part in the Games >as “neutrals” and not as Russians. Thus even if proved innocent >Russian >athletes would have to deny their nation and their country – foregoing >the right to wear its colours or hear its anthem if they win." > >http://theduran.com/stalinist-witch-hunt-russian-athletes/ > > >(I'm not sure anyone takes seriously the assertion that USA basically >does not use propaganda, only speaks truth and righteousness - I find >it >quite amazing that such an assertion was even put in this mailing list >but I guess it's possible -some- people do believe that...) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1547 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Tue Jul 19 22:08:04 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 05:08:04 +0000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <20160720000717.GC16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 17:29 Ted Smith wrote: > Feel free to tell me how any of that relates, even remotely, to what I > said. > I think his point is that he would welcome such discussion about other countries. Russia has been the West's "whipping boy" since the USSR collapsed. Instead of dismantling the cold war apparatus as it should have, the US and NATO just kept right on going. In my opinion the cold warriors and their children have been trying desperately to ignite a new cold war, and it seems to me they've succeeded. One thing I don't quite understand is, why cypherpunks? I don't think you will find many pro-US-government folks here aside from the fed moles. Recruiting maybe? The latest Russian surveillance law will probably put a damper on that. > > On July 19, 2016 5:07:17 PM PDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:22:05PM -0700, Ted Smith wrote: >> ... >> >> Feel free to demonstrate how the USA champions democratic principles, >> respect for sovereignty (national and individual - corporation >> sovereignty is the problem, not the solution) and the rule of law, as it >> (the USA BIMSIC - banking, industrial, military, suveillance, injustice >> complex) drones humans to death, every day, in at least 12 countries. >> >> Feel free to initiate a thread on how we might engender, induce or >> otherwise educate our fellow humans to find authority within themselves, >> to stand for a principle greater than meat pies and footy, and to act in >> pursuance of such a principle. Many of us a flat out of ideas - really. >> >> And also, feel free to point out how "my" "democratically elected" >> "leaders" here in Australia are really doing a fine and upstanding job >> at the helm of this great land, how we should all, >> individually and >> collectively be striving to emulate them and how this will lead us into >> a better place, a better world, a better future. >> >> Please, and seriously, any such bit of positive news would be good for >> my ears as much as for yours, 'cause mostly all I see going on all >> around the world today is ludicrous unethical evil actions, idiots >> strutting around as "leaders" spouting abominations against all human >> decency, common sense and righteousness! >> >> Please, do enlighten me - I'll wait... >> >> > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3255 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 20 04:35:52 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 07:35:52 -0400 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: > On Jul 19, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes > have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer. > > Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is > evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the > games, unless they can prove their innocence. > Yes doping is a huge fucking problem in every country that can afford it. However, the US of Ass, as tyrannical a bunch of fucks as they are, have not had a whistle blower like Roschenkov come forward and make broad claims that there is US govmt sponsored doping program, with the CIA acting as facilitators for clean blood / urine / drugs... as your surely must know, this has happened for Russia. I would swear it seems like you must be getting paid by the FSB for much of this pro-Russian Rah-rah-Putin-is-our-man shit you spout Zen, if I didn't know better ;) (which I don't) Or maybe it's "ideological" John From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 08:12:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:12:36 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: <40292f2f-3070-5b1e-60bd-0459766fad18@riseup.net> On 07/19/2016 10:48 PM, Александр wrote: > And back to the original post from Zenaan... > (sorry teddy, your attempt of misleading didn't succeed after all) > Juan was 100% right. And he was the only one on tor-talk and the cypherpunk list, who persistently (for years!) claimed that Tor is totally fucked up. Tor ISNT "Totally fucked up". It has security issues just like EVERYTHING YOU WILL EVER USE RELATED TO THE INTERNET... IF that ever stopped happening world governments would simply pull the plug and there's be no more internet. AND TORPROJECT HAS A FUCKED UP "CULTURE" JUST LIKE EVERY ORGANIZATIONAL CULTURE RELATED TO THE INTERNET. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 08:15:35 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:15:35 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <4506055a-7666-5601-b9d3-6b8d84332c7a@squimp.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <4506055a-7666-5601-b9d3-6b8d84332c7a@squimp.com> Message-ID: On 07/20/2016 12:49 AM, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote: > technocratic utopia ...is a Fascist 'utopia'. What happened to Jake Appelbaum is a classic example of your TED driven utopia. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 22:29:03 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:29:03 +0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: 2016-07-20 2:42 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch : > What, you can't copy and paste? Александр directly transliterates as > "Aleksandr". I'm guessing from his email address that "Alex" might be > acceptable. > > Thanks, Sean. I guess it's way too complicated for this too smarti/cypherpunki Teddy-bear fucker. ​:D /█\ .Π. ___ tedks at riseup.net: > Juan, Zeeblocks, and the Cyrillic name guy are pretty obvious Russian > internet troll army sorts of people. That's been obvious for a while. (Who > else links to Russia fucking today?) > It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. > Those bullshit accusations are (especially) really really funny to read from a hollow person who never published anything serious on this list. Just whining every three months about "Zenaan, Juan and this Cyrillic guy" (wau, teddy-bear, you really hurt me :( ) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1797 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 08:40:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:40:42 -0700 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160720070802.GA851@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> <20160720070802.GA851@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <65b010c0-48ae-1fb1-9b1f-d1aec09943f6@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 12:08 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 08:34:05AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> dissent, >> riffle, >> i2p, >> mixminion >> pynchon-gate >> percy++ >> >> NONE of these are intended for the same target audience as tor. IOW NONE >> of the above could CONCEIVABLY be used by a journalist or >> computer-illiterate dissident in Tanzania right NOW. >> > Aren't the shiny features easy to do if there is core functionality? > > Given socks proxy or network interface it is trivial. > I suspect the shiny gui is a venue for a number of security risks. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 15:46:07 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:46:07 +1000 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160719224607.GY16437@x220-a02> > 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the > system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. GPA? Someone chasing a decent grade point average? GNU privacy assistant? We need a way to have a git backed WordNet or VERA local dictionary, perhaps connected to wiktionary.org so we can sync new acronyms for our command line tapping dict pleasure. From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 22:48:23 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:48:23 +0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: And back to the original post from Zenaan... (sorry teddy, your attempt of misleading didn't succeed after all) *Juan was 100% right. And he was the only one on tor-talk and the cypherpunk list, who persistently (for years!) claimed that Tor is totally fucked up.* And now there are unambiguous proves from all the evidences that came out in the recent months (not that before there was nothing). So, thank you, Juan. The teddy-bears on this list who are so fucken smart and so educated and "strict cypherpunki"... - are not so smart after all. And this "troll/fsb agent" Juan... is smarter than them. ! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Wed Jul 20 08:56:27 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 08:56:27 -0700 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the =?UTF-8?Q?alternatives=3F?= In-Reply-To: <65b010c0-48ae-1fb1-9b1f-d1aec09943f6@riseup.net> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> <20160720070802.GA851@sivokote.iziade.m$> <65b010c0-48ae-1fb1-9b1f-d1aec09943f6@riseup.net> Message-ID: Hi, >>> >>> Rayzer: >>> NONE could be used by a journalist right NOW. >>> i2p mail works just fine XD > > Rayzer: > I suspect the shiny gui is a venue for security risks. > How ? Wordlife, Spencer From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 16:02:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:02:17 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer. Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the games, unless they can prove their innocence. Oh, and just to teach a lesson, those atheletes that have never been involved in doping, if and only if they can prove they never doped their bodies, well they can participate in the upcoming Olympics, but they are not allowed to represent North America, and if the get a gold medal, the American national anthem will NOT be played - since Russia is hosting the Olympics, the Russian national anthem will be played instead. That is definitely fair and appropriate to the North American athletes who have always done the right thing - a little bit of healthy national and personal punishment before any trial and before any conviction. Yep, that's how a democratic world should definitely work. Just the way I thought of it too there Sean. Not! Western schooled persons (no point calling them humans) have lost touch with empathy, justice, don't even comprehend the rule of law and checks and balances, innocence until proven guilty and all that democratic "rubbish". On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 06:07:05PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > Participate as a country, dope as a country, get banned as a country. Maybe > Russia should clean its house if it wants representation at the games. Or > if the institution itself is illegitimate, why do Russians want to > represent their country so badly at the games? > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 5:11 AM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > If anyone wanted an example of propaganda and political bullying: > > > > "The IAAF and now the sports bodies of the US and Canada are not only > > demanding that Russian athletes prove their innocence before they can > > take part in the Games. They also demand that even if athletes prove > > their innocence, they should only be allowed to take part in the Games > > as “neutrals” and not as Russians. Thus even if proved innocent Russian > > athletes would have to deny their nation and their country – foregoing > > the right to wear its colours or hear its anthem if they win." > > > > http://theduran.com/stalinist-witch-hunt-russian-athletes/ > > > > > > (I'm not sure anyone takes seriously the assertion that USA basically > > does not use propaganda, only speaks truth and righteousness - I find it > > quite amazing that such an assertion was even put in this mailing list > > but I guess it's possible -some- people do believe that...) From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 09:03:20 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 07/19/2016 02:31 AM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: >> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 >> Mirimir wrote: >> >>> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not broken/breakable by >>> design. >> >> keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully >> satisfied yet. > He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after all. > > But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US military > funding for a project that provided deniable and secure communication, > but only by making it public, for use by both funders and their enemies. > > It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to US > military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's > intentionally designed to be vulnerable. There's also the fact that > nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to > global adversaries. So it seems unlikely that he had such a design that > he put aside as unsellable. > > You're arguing logically with a brain-dead troll Mirimir... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Wed Jul 20 09:07:50 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:07:50 -0700 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: Hi, > > John Newman: > Yes doping is a huge fucking problem > Yeah, we wouldn't want people healing faster or getting stronger. They should be made to eat gluten free and vegan before they compete, too, so they are extra weak and can give others a chance. Wordlife, Spencer From spencerone at openmailbox.org Wed Jul 20 09:17:52 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:17:52 -0700 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Steve Kinney: > Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the > business and consumer markets > I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 and XP will still be paying for support q: People, on the other hand, will be using the free and open-source KanyeOS built on the BAE-Waynux system. Wordlife, Spencer From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 09:29:18 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:29:18 -0700 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> <20160720070802.GA851@sivokote.iziade.m$> <65b010c0-48ae-1fb1-9b1f-d1aec09943f6@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5feb0e87-d2ec-b784-da33-144fcb10ea09@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 08:56 AM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >>>> >>>> Rayzer: >>>> NONE could be used by a journalist right NOW. >>>> > > i2p mail works just fine XD > >> >> Rayzer: >> I suspect the shiny gui is a venue for security risks. >> > > How ? > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > Not a coder so I can't supply anything more than a hunch but the graphics security end of the 'user experience' was just recently noted here: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/231820-netflix-only-streams-1080p-to-a-pc-if-youre-using-a-microsoft-browser IOW, if you're using any browser but MS Edge Netflix DRM coding apparently doesn't work, and many guis use browser 'parts' or... ahem, Java, to display a gui. Another example was the hacked LOIC dDos tool so popular with anons a few years ago. You plugged in an IRC address/channel and the tool was remotely operated. By whom, and what logs were kept was, and still is, unknown. But that sort of spying is almost too crass to list as a security flaw. The users were their own worse enemies Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 16:29:22 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:29:22 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160719232922.GB16437@x220-a02> Further, direct from the Kremlin: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/52537 Statement in response to the report by the World Anti-Doping Agency July 18, 2016 President of Russia Vladimir Putin: Recent events and the tense atmosphere that has formed around international sport and the Olympic movement involuntarily recall the situation in the early 1980s. Back then, many Western countries, citing the deployment of Soviet troops in Afghanistan, boycotted the Moscow Olympics. Four years later, the Soviet Union retaliated by boycotting the Los Angeles Olympics, using the pretext of an allegedly insufficient level of security for the Soviet team. The result was that many Soviet and American athletes and athletes from other countries were caught up in this campaign of reciprocal boycotts and lost the chance to add their names to world sporting history. Their years of long and hard effort and training were in vain. In short, people had their dreams broken and became hostages of political confrontation. The Olympic movement found itself in a serious crisis and faced divisions within. Later, some of the political figures of that era on both sides admitted that this had been a mistake. Today, we see a dangerous return to this policy of letting politics interfere with sport. Yes, this intervention takes different forms today, but the essence remains the same; to make sport an instrument for geopolitical pressure and use it to form a negative image of countries and peoples. The Olympic movement, which is a tremendous force for uniting humanity, once again could find itself on the brink of division. Today, so-called ‘doping scandals’ are the method used, attempts to apply sanctions for detected cases of doping to all athletes, including those who are ‘clean’, supposedly to protect their interests. But unlike in the 1980s, athletes undergo very strict and comprehensive anti-doping tests during competition and during the entire training process. Over the last 6 months, all Russian athletes have undergone anti-doping tests on WADA’s recommendations, with the tests overseen by the UK Anti-Doping Agency and other anti-doping laboratories abroad. The accusations against Russia’s athletes are based on information given by one single person, an individual with a notorious reputation. Criminal charges were opened against him in 2012 for violating anti-doping laws, but there was not enough evidence against him at that moment and the case was dropped. On June 17 this year, following his allegations of involvement in using banned substances and information from Russian athletes concerning extortion, a criminal case was reopened against him in connection with the new circumstances that had come to light. One of his close relatives, who used to work under his direction, has already been convicted in Russia for illegal trade in anabolic steroids. The question arises as to how much trust we can place in arguments based solely on the allegations of people of this kind, and how much weight can such allegations have. The US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) and several anti-doping agencies in other countries, without waiting for the official publication of the World Anti-Doping Agency’s commission, have hastened to demand that the entire Russian team be banned from taking part in the Rio de Janeiro Olympics. What is behind this haste? Is it an attempt to create the needed media atmosphere and apply pressure? We have the impression that the USADA experts had access to what is an unpublished report at the very least, and have set its tone and even its content themselves. If this is the case, one country’s national organisation is again trying to dictate its will to the entire world sports community. The officials named in the commission's report as directly involved will be temporarily removed from their posts until a full investigation is complete. But to be able to make a final decision on these officials’ responsibility, we ask the WADA commission to provide fuller and more objective fact-based information so that Russia’s law enforcement and investigative agencies can use it in their investigation. We can guarantee that their work will be seen through to its conclusion and that all subsequent measures will be taken in full to prevent violation of Russian law and ensure that our country fulfils its international obligations. We have always taken the clear position that there is no place for doping in sport. It endangers athletes’ health and lives and discredits fair sporting competition. We are consistent in eliminating this scourge, improve our national laws in this area, and cooperate openly with the relevant international organisations and the International Olympic Committee. We are unfailing in meeting our obligations. Russia is well aware of the Olympic movement’s immense significance and constructive force, and shares in full the Olympic movement’s values of mutual respect, solidarity, fairness, and the spirit of friendship and cooperation. This is the only way to preserve the Olympic family’s unity and ensure international sport’s development in the interest of bringing peoples and cultures closer together. Russia is open to cooperation on achieving these noble goals. From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 09:36:44 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:36:44 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: > Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known > for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most > of what he's accused of. But I blame the community for tolerating it > and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have > existed without the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying > to force a kiss on a woman, Source please. No source and it didn't happen. Supply a source and it still might not have happened. What I'm seeing here is hearsay. Lots of that going around... Ask Juan. It's one of his his specialties. Rr On 07/20/2016 09:24 AM, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 1:02 AM Mirimir > wrote: > > On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 > > Mirimir > wrote: > > > >> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was > right > >>> all along about Tor Inc. > >> > >> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) > >> > >> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government > uses it > >> for evil. > > > > So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain > > fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? > > > > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. If > > on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT > > SECURE. > > > > Is something unclear? > > What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what > you've shared. So it sounds like just an assumption. > > > So much about security is based on probabilities and unknowns, and our > own privacy is such a personal issue, that I don't think this is > something that's going to be solved by "evidence." Some people are > going to be uncomfortable using or supporting Tor no matter what > because of its history, and now potentially because they blame Tor for > what happened to Appelbaum. > > Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known > for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most > of what he's accused of. But I blame the community for tolerating it > and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have > existed without the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying > to force a kiss on a woman, just wished they had such big balls rather > than being concerned over whether or not she actually wanted that. > > > >> It's the same argument that we make about encryption > >> generally. > > > > No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > > > I think that what they are saying is that whether or not crypto is > effective for a given application depends on the resources your > adversaries are able and willing to apply to breaking it. > > > >> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > >> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > > > Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities > > that your enemies don't have. > > That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) > > > Agreed. It's also the fundamental fallacy behind all of the NSA's > attempts to weaken crypto. > > > So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you > just > arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That they're so > confident about their superior capabilities? > > > The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. > > > >> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > > > > What wouldn't work? > > Let's assume, hypothetically, that Tor is secure for everyone. And > let's > acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. > > If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? > > Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6994 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nathan at squimp.com Wed Jul 20 00:49:11 2016 From: nathan at squimp.com (Nathan Andrew Fain) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:49:11 +0200 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: <4506055a-7666-5601-b9d3-6b8d84332c7a@squimp.com> What killed this list is not the anti-westernism (even more of that would be fine) it is the users that refuse to get their own twitter account and instead of post every link they read and every grumpy thought they have on cpunks instead. It is a good recipe for destroying any technocratic utopia that resists moderation or regulation: just fill it with trash. On 20/07/2016 01:22, Ted Smith wrote: > It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 17:07:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:07:17 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160720000717.GC16437@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 04:22:05PM -0700, Ted Smith wrote: ... Feel free to demonstrate how the USA champions democratic principles, respect for sovereignty (national and individual - corporation sovereignty is the problem, not the solution) and the rule of law, as it (the USA BIMSIC - banking, industrial, military, suveillance, injustice complex) drones humans to death, every day, in at least 12 countries. Feel free to initiate a thread on how we might engender, induce or otherwise educate our fellow humans to find authority within themselves, to stand for a principle greater than meat pies and footy, and to act in pursuance of such a principle. Many of us a flat out of ideas - really. And also, feel free to point out how "my" "democratically elected" "leaders" here in Australia are really doing a fine and upstanding job at the helm of this great land, how we should all, individually and collectively be striving to emulate them and how this will lead us into a better place, a better world, a better future. Please, and seriously, any such bit of positive news would be good for my ears as much as for yours, 'cause mostly all I see going on all around the world today is ludicrous unethical evil actions, idiots strutting around as "leaders" spouting abominations against all human decency, common sense and righteousness! Please, do enlighten me - I'll wait... From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 20 00:08:02 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:08:02 +0300 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719091213.GC30751@ctrlc.hu> <916a76b5-8cc9-3972-5cfb-9e9da4ad07f1@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160720070802.GA851@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 08:34:05AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > dissent, > riffle, > i2p, > mixminion > pynchon-gate > percy++ > > NONE of these are intended for the same target audience as tor. IOW NONE > of the above could CONCEIVABLY be used by a journalist or > computer-illiterate dissident in Tanzania right NOW. > Aren't the shiny features easy to do if there is core functionality? Given socks proxy or network interface it is trivial. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 17:12:46 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:12:46 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160720001246.GE16437@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:02:17AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes > have been doping, like say your cyclists, Just, you know, hypothetically of course... From tedks at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 10:17:49 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:17:49 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <4506055a-7666-5601-b9d3-6b8d84332c7a@squimp.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <4506055a-7666-5601-b9d3-6b8d84332c7a@squimp.com> Message-ID: <84F071E0-25EF-4016-BC5C-517CFC38BF8A@riseup.net> Absolutely. Blogposting should be met with the scorn it deserves. Too late here, though. On July 20, 2016 12:49:11 AM PDT, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote: >What killed this list is not the anti-westernism (even more of that >would be fine) it is the users that refuse to get their own twitter >account and instead of post every link they read and every grumpy >thought they have on cpunks instead. It is a good recipe for destroying >any technocratic utopia that resists moderation or regulation: just >fill >it with trash. > >On 20/07/2016 01:22, Ted Smith wrote: >> It's a shame we let the FSB kill cpunks. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1120 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 10:32:57 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:32:57 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 09:56 AM, Sean Lynch wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:43 AM Rayzer > wrote: > >> Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've >> known for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at >> least most of what he's accused of. But I blame the community for >> tolerating it and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. >> He could not have existed without the legions of fanboys who, >> when they saw him trying to force a kiss on a woman, > > Source please. No source and it didn't happen. Supply a source and > it still might not have happened. > > > I'm not interested in trying to convince you or anyone else that it > happened. I am telling you why *I* am convinced. You can decide I'm > stupid if you like, just like I'll decide you're motivated by other > reasons besides just thinking there's a government/SJW conspiracy. The conspiracy is organizational, and feudal in nature. I've seen similar and anyone whose ever worked for a corporation has seen similar slander campaigns. > > What I'm seeing here is hearsay. > > Yep. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in court. For all > others, it's preponderance of evidence. You certainly don't seem to > require any evidence to believe his accusers are liars. > Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to work in 'Merica. IF it was so widely observed why haven't charges been filed anywhere about anything. Until then, it's ALL BULLSHIT. > Lots of that going around... Ask Juan. It's one of his his > specialties. > > > As I've said before, a large fraction of what we do is subjective and > very personal. And subject to a lot of passion. Nothing wrong with that. > Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been falsely accused like this, and eventually their accusers moved on, along with their Orcs. No one misses them. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4383 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Wed Jul 20 15:21:31 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 15:21:31 -0700 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <3c46e516-a389-f191-234a-d0c9be18189c@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <3c46e516-a389-f191-234a-d0c9be18189c@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <2f69dac45faeaf906f9772daafbd1473@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Steve Kinney: > forced obsolescence, managed security failure, and product > misrepresentation in proprietary software. > Not exclusively proprietary stuff ... see Torvalds, Zawinski, Dingledine, Freitas, et al. > > Post-apocalypse, Free Software will dominate > we can stand up a patchwork quilt of autonomous infrastructures > Automatic low credit score droning done with publicly audited open-source code XD Wordlife, Spencer From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 09:24:04 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:24:04 +0000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 1:02 AM Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > >> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was right > >>> all along about Tor Inc. > >> > >> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) > >> > >> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government uses it > >> for evil. > > > > So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain > > fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? > > > > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. If > > on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT > > SECURE. > > > > Is something unclear? > > What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what > you've shared. So it sounds like just an assumption. > So much about security is based on probabilities and unknowns, and our own privacy is such a personal issue, that I don't think this is something that's going to be solved by "evidence." Some people are going to be uncomfortable using or supporting Tor no matter what because of its history, and now potentially because they blame Tor for what happened to Appelbaum. Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most of what he's accused of. But I blame the community for tolerating it and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have existed without the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying to force a kiss on a woman, just wished they had such big balls rather than being concerned over whether or not she actually wanted that. > >> It's the same argument that we make about encryption > >> generally. > > > > No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > I think that what they are saying is that whether or not crypto is effective for a given application depends on the resources your adversaries are able and willing to apply to breaking it. > >> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > >> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > > > Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities > > that your enemies don't have. > > That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) > Agreed. It's also the fundamental fallacy behind all of the NSA's attempts to weaken crypto. > So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you just > arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That they're so > confident about their superior capabilities? > The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. > >> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > > > > What wouldn't work? > > Let's assume, hypothetically, that Tor is secure for everyone. And let's > acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. > > If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? > > Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4424 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 20 06:35:13 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:35:13 +0300 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> <20160719073730.GD843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160720133513.GB851@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 06:14:59PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > So the question is, what form will its collapse take, and how long will it > take? I'm not sure if I'd prefer that it be quick and extremely painful or > slow to give people who have a clue what's going on time to insulate > themselves. There was discussion in 2015 about collapse: https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-October/009615.html Sometimes I wonder, do sheeple deserve pain in the collapse after sheeple supported the clear Ponzi scheme for so long. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 19 23:36:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:36:10 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <0120a4c7-9094-13ef-735b-6ba35dcb2bcf@riseup.net> <20160720000717.GC16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160720063610.GB31268@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 05:08:04AM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 17:29 Ted Smith wrote: > > > Feel free to tell me how any of that relates, even remotely, to what I > > said. > > I think his point is that he would welcome such discussion about other > countries. > > Russia has been the West's "whipping boy" since the USSR collapsed. Instead > of dismantling the cold war apparatus as it should have, the US and NATO > just kept right on going. In my opinion the cold warriors and their > children have been trying desperately to ignite a new cold war, and it > seems to me they've succeeded. > > One thing I don't quite understand is, why cypherpunks? I don't think you > will find many pro-US-government folks here aside from the fed moles. > Recruiting maybe? The latest Russian surveillance law will probably put a > damper on that. Not to mention our Aussie post 9/11 gestapo legislation which has snuck under the radar and never been repealed. Australia is now just awaiting a modern Hitler to "put it to good use" - detention without lawyer because "terrorist", no right to say you are detained, or why, to your family, indefinite detainment, no right to trial by jury, no nothing. If you're a terrst, you're gone! Pretty sure we have similarly bad comms legislation to Russia. I proposed an cypherPlusPunks list (or "politicopunks" or "anythingpunks"), but a few folks suggested it probably would not be useful, and that this list, being anarchist and all, was not really up for censoship of any kind. My thesis is that everything we do, everything we say, everything we code, -is- politics to a greater degree. The geopolitical status today is hectic, and possibly getting worse by the month. And so, we need to focus on whatever we can possibly do to bring this beast called the USA down to a soft landing for the rest of the world. Whatever it takes, this is our primary goal. After that, we can get back to our lives in general. From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 09:47:03 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:47:03 +0000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 4:09 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes > have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer. > > Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is > evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the > games, unless they can prove their innocence. > > Oh, and just to teach a lesson, those atheletes that have never been > involved in doping, if and only if they can prove they never doped their > bodies, well they can participate in the upcoming Olympics, but they are > not allowed to represent North America, and if the get a gold medal, the > American national anthem will NOT be played - since Russia is hosting > the Olympics, the Russian national anthem will be played instead. > > That is definitely fair and appropriate to the North American athletes > who have always done the right thing - a little bit of healthy > national and personal punishment before any trial and before any > conviction. > > Yep, that's how a democratic world should definitely work. Just the way > I thought of it too there Sean. > I am pretty sure I understand your position, and I'm sympathetic to it, but as an unpatriotic (in the sense that I do not support the government and I feel physically ill when I see people waving flags) American, I'm afraid that swapping America for Russia helps me see it better. I think this points out a fundamental flaw in the Olympics, and in fact in the entire international system: Individuals do not exist as entities in the international system. There is absolutely nothing democratic about the Olympics. The games exist to glorify states over individuals. The Western media do highlight superstars, but for the most part only American athletes get highlighted in the US. I gave up on the Olympics years ago. It is a fundamentally corrupt and hypocritical institution. And as you can see, it's being used as a tool of the West to try to punish Russia. So I totally agree with you, that's not the way a democratic world should work. But I'd add that the Olympics are not the way a democratic world should work. In a democratic system, states exist to serve the people. They should be at the bottom, not at the top. Not! > > > Western schooled persons (no point calling them humans) have lost touch > with empathy, justice, don't even comprehend the rule of law and checks > and balances, innocence until proven guilty and all that democratic > "rubbish". > I agree, though I think most people have always just followed the herd. Most people have always thought "rule of law" has meant "order", and that a powerful government unconstrained itself by law, as long as it was tying to do "the right thing" was the way to maintain "rule of law." Never mind that precisely the opposite is true. Which means the line has been being held by... what, exactly? Inertia, probably. The West has been essentially coasting on the inertia of WWII and then on the Cold War, which kept lots of people employed in a system that is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass destruction. The old corporate/crony capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good for is war. The "war on terror" is the wrong kind of war to keep it going, because high tech weapons are for the most part useless. Terrorism requires political, policy, *human* solutions. But the system is not evolved to put the kind of people in power who are capable of creating those kinds of solutions. Ironically, as undemocratic as it was, the system that existed in Europe prior to WWI was probably better suited to small scale conflicts than our current system. The French Revolution introduced the concept of "total war" to Europe, and the old system was not adapted to that. Now "total war" would likely destroy us all, but we're also pretty shitty at small scale wars. As you've said before, we need to have a multipolar system again. Such a system would reward diplomacy over saber-rattling. Doesn't matter so much if there's still a lot of tension, as long as it doesn't escalate to war. As long as individuals don't get too caught up in the tension, because the only reason to have states in the first place is to let individuals conduct their lives in relative stability and peace. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5337 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 09:47:54 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:47:54 +0000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:47 AM Sean Lynch wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 4:09 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes >> have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer. >> >> Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is >> evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the >> games, unless they can prove their innocence. >> >> Oh, and just to teach a lesson, those atheletes that have never been >> involved in doping, if and only if they can prove they never doped their >> bodies, well they can participate in the upcoming Olympics, but they are >> not allowed to represent North America, and if the get a gold medal, the >> American national anthem will NOT be played - since Russia is hosting >> the Olympics, the Russian national anthem will be played instead. >> >> That is definitely fair and appropriate to the North American athletes >> who have always done the right thing - a little bit of healthy >> national and personal punishment before any trial and before any >> conviction. >> >> Yep, that's how a democratic world should definitely work. Just the way >> I thought of it too there Sean. >> > > > I am pretty sure I understand your position, and I'm sympathetic to it, > but as an unpatriotic (in the sense that I do not support the government > and I feel physically ill when I see people waving flags) American, I'm > afraid that swapping America for Russia helps me see it better. > Err, *doesn't* help me see it better. > > I think this points out a fundamental flaw in the Olympics, and in fact in > the entire international system: Individuals do not exist as entities in > the international system. There is absolutely nothing democratic about > the Olympics. The games exist to glorify states over individuals. The > Western media do highlight superstars, but for the most part only American > athletes get highlighted in the US. > > I gave up on the Olympics years ago. It is a fundamentally corrupt and > hypocritical institution. And as you can see, it's being used as a tool of > the West to try to punish Russia. > > So I totally agree with you, that's not the way a democratic world should > work. But I'd add that the Olympics are not the way a democratic world > should work. In a democratic system, states exist to serve the people. They > should be at the bottom, not at the top. > > Not! >> >> >> Western schooled persons (no point calling them humans) have lost touch >> with empathy, justice, don't even comprehend the rule of law and checks >> and balances, innocence until proven guilty and all that democratic >> "rubbish". >> > > I agree, though I think most people have always just followed the herd. > Most people have always thought "rule of law" has meant "order", and that a > powerful government unconstrained itself by law, as long as it was tying to > do "the right thing" was the way to maintain "rule of law." Never mind that > precisely the opposite is true. > > Which means the line has been being held by... what, exactly? Inertia, > probably. The West has been essentially coasting on the inertia of WWII and > then on the Cold War, which kept lots of people employed in a system that > is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass destruction. The old > corporate/crony capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing > it's good for is war. The "war on terror" is the wrong kind of war to keep > it going, because high tech weapons are for the most part useless. > Terrorism requires political, policy, *human* solutions. But the system is > not evolved to put the kind of people in power who are capable of creating > those kinds of solutions. > > Ironically, as undemocratic as it was, the system that existed in Europe > prior to WWI was probably better suited to small scale conflicts than our > current system. The French Revolution introduced the concept of "total war" > to Europe, and the old system was not adapted to that. > > Now "total war" would likely destroy us all, but we're also pretty shitty > at small scale wars. As you've said before, we need to have a multipolar > system again. Such a system would reward diplomacy over saber-rattling. > Doesn't matter so much if there's still a lot of tension, as long as it > doesn't escalate to war. As long as individuals don't get too caught up in > the tension, because the only reason to have states in the first place is > to let individuals conduct their lives in relative stability and peace. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6109 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 09:51:49 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move > > to something allegedly better? > > > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor are > resources that can't be used in good projects. > They are not your resources to redirect, but the resources expended on Tor are tiny compared to, say, Bitcoin. Or even just Ethereum. This is not a good argument, and I think it may be motivated by your own personal feelings about Tor. Which you are perfectly entitled to have, but you should not be surprised when people who do not share those feelings don't find your arguments based on them compelling. > > Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them all. > > > > For a start, I would like to know: > > > > 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less functionality)? > > 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with shady stuff like TLAs? > > 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like debian's openssl memset())? > > 4. What is their security/anonymity bug history? > > 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > > 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > > > > As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with > > USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. > > Of course it does. As a matter of fact tor cunts dingledine and > syverson are part of mit, or part of mit projects like > 'dissent'. > So design your own? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2261 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 09:56:03 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:56:03 +0000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:43 AM Rayzer wrote: > Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known for > years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most of what > he's accused of. But I blame the community for tolerating it and saying > nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have existed without > the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying to force a kiss on a > woman, > > Source please. No source and it didn't happen. Supply a source and it > still might not have happened. > I'm not interested in trying to convince you or anyone else that it happened. I am telling you why *I* am convinced. You can decide I'm stupid if you like, just like I'll decide you're motivated by other reasons besides just thinking there's a government/SJW conspiracy. What I'm seeing here is hearsay. > Yep. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in court. For all others, it's preponderance of evidence. You certainly don't seem to require any evidence to believe his accusers are liars. Lots of that going around... Ask Juan. It's one of his his specialties. > As I've said before, a large fraction of what we do is subjective and very personal. And subject to a lot of passion. 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Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2222 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 20 14:04:41 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:04:41 -0400 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <3c46e516-a389-f191-234a-d0c9be18189c@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/20/2016 12:17 PM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >> >> Steve Kinney: Microsoft would lose a large part of its market >> share in the business and consumer markets >> > > I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 > and XP will still be paying for support q: I know of a couple of small businesses still running core missions on Windows 98; in their use cases it "just works" and they see no need to fix it. There are still millions of XP installations grinding away out there. When a tool has successfully supported necessary business process for years, rational managers don't replace it until it either breaks or something comes along that offers a real improvement in the performance of the enterprise as a whole. Hence the key roles of forced obsolescence, managed security failure, and product misrepresentation in the wonderful world of proprietary software. > People, on the other hand, will be using the free and open-source > KanyeOS built on the BAE-Waynux system. Post-apocalypse, Free Software will dominate because of its superior performance in the context of salvaging and repurposing hardware, and because it already has a distributed architecture in place for developing and maintaining software. The more Free Software we have in our large scale integrated infrastructure today, the faster and better we can stand up a patchwork quilt of autonomous infrastructures tomorrow. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXj+dpAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqMRAH/iEIut2RsA7vrJfRG9aU6fJw e5HTKnyc1IdlUOikugs0ifHLHm5CsWsBxwlsmDDsBwPR9j3f0iU7krtF85vkU2Bm WkhA9+rbmO9uzLoAqTJ1vzTwJEubDl3rWK4yk6KSSyqLZo79SIGE6bNKUIEAoGWQ 1kh4lvpHqYiP+ziJ5XTBQd735qdzVxqp1/HK4ji/Iex3cFfHhhBhsMkDQQF4rzFP +ljuV685MN+dwY6OIprR+BkS4FwyN9j1K71hJzgylIeXs1A5dAB4tdI9a4LCmmoa 8ojgLMtVJICbjiF8jwvPVWm52c+Tfj1sqtimiHE9DFPI51lgmcj7eC2DNsq7rGI= =CYQm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:05:57 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:05:57 -0400 Subject: [tor-talk] FBI cracked Tor security In-Reply-To: <578DD71D.9060101@riseup.net> References: <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <652210562.2768097.1468453881242.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5787332E.5000708@riseup.net> <57875032.1070206@riseup.net> <578A2DC1.7070603@riseup.net> <131570253.378767.1468722075564.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <578AF771.6020009@riseup.net> <578CD24E.40002@riseup.net> <578DD71D.9060101@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/19/16, Mirimir wrote: > I doubt that they hire anons :( US IRS rules prevent that to such degree that any btc anons get beyond trivial limits will not be coming from the audited corporate wallet. While tor may be hodling legacy btc, donations are currently going via bitpay probably set to convert it all straight to usd with no holdback. Nor does tor corp have any real need for anons. And even if the board welcomed anons philosophically, lawyers would probably block it citing risk, liability, and other scary stuff. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:32:43 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 17:32:43 -0400 Subject: #Jakegate Becomes #Torgate [re: Tor Replaces Its Entire Board] Message-ID: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/755019531228250112 "Tor operator @LuckyGreen resigns; a collection of leaks (for/against) on the @TorProject 'rape+plagiarism+CIA' saga https://www.oneeyedman.net/?p=2508 Since things seem to be falling apart at the Tor Project, and also in the campaign against Jacob Appelbaum (@ioerror), I’m beginning a list (for my own convenience) of leaked documents.." From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 20 18:47:56 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 18:47:56 -0700 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 12:16 PM, Sean Lynch wrote: So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people said robbed them? Depends on who those people are, and if they're not willing to confront the person BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (in this case meaning get the cops), I ABSOLUTELY assume bullshit. You can say whatever you like, but if you can take action, especially action that isn't going to get you 30-90 days or longer for dotting someone's i, and you don't... You're a punk. Rr > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:27 AM Александр > wrote: > > 2016-07-20 20:32 GMT+03:00 Rayzer >: > > Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. > > I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been > falsely accused like this. > > +1! > > > Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to > work in 'Merica. > > that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. > Otherwise it's medieval inquisition. Period. > > > So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people > said robbed them? Let an accused child molester be alone with your > kids because they were never convicted? > > There are different standards of proof for different functions. > "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not necessary for "we don't want this > person associated with our project/company/etc". No standard > whatsoever is required for an individual deciding with whom to do > business, who to trust to watch their kids or housesit, etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4404 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 12:12:29 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 19:12:29 +0000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:21 AM Александр wrote: > > 2016-07-20 19:47 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch : > >> a system is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass >> destruction. >> >> The capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good >> for is war. >> > Brilliant! > There was a time when your edits would have bothered me, because what I thought of as "capitalism" was just people freely exchanging with one another. But that was just a libertarian attempt to coopt a term that was originally meant pejoratively. I do believe in free exchange (though "free" is obviously open to interpretation) and some form of private property (again, open to interpretation). What I don't believe in is economies enslaved to the state for the purpose of powering the war machine. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 12:16:31 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 19:16:31 +0000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:27 AM Александр wrote: > 2016-07-20 20:32 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : > >> Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. >> > I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been falsely accused >> like this. >> > +1! > > > Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to work in >> 'Merica. >> > that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. Otherwise > it's medieval inquisition. Period. > So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people said robbed them? Let an accused child molester be alone with your kids because they were never convicted? There are different standards of proof for different functions. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not necessary for "we don't want this person associated with our project/company/etc". No standard whatsoever is required for an individual deciding with whom to do business, who to trust to watch their kids or housesit, etc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2266 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Wed Jul 20 16:33:03 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 19:33:03 -0400 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <2f69dac45faeaf906f9772daafbd1473@openmailbox.org> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <3c46e516-a389-f191-234a-d0c9be18189c@pilobilus.net> <2f69dac45faeaf906f9772daafbd1473@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <90041bfe-81af-9091-25fa-a877e758002f@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/20/2016 06:21 PM, Spencer wrote: > Automatic low credit score droning done with publicly audited > open-source code XD By definition, credit reporting agencies will not survive into the post-apocalyptic world. Ditto for State programs conducting economic wars of conquest through terrorist means. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkAovAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqNjQIALbUkFadkYZRrHV1HlHaCXje lqWYi7XBnkDfRX9wrYe0zuGx3ZfKiRU303PSBK7dDREsvfMJejDiGtNv8M1/9/X/ a/DRDHedQ2HpPrQzt8hwLlhSVhC+qpmH66MWg+FXXnoIITfOGcrG24EbfIn43ap1 F8UA2vs/jG/jHzOOSmComUveJ8WIrELXFU9yG9OigZt4DV86nqFbv9sR8xdZGMOr S1oQvSDT4sEUGqGH5oJ7oi6260KTc7Wp5uo8dNk4ndKOuCpJzIyCM7C/eLwebhYL P+fq6iQ8g8yUGhK2dC+Gd5/noWqCyXO4YHrsAn0xEQf6M9ptvumMvagqk1voREc= =Vyfb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 20 12:51:22 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 19:51:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: <1428383046.2639361.1469044282959.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Sean Lynch On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:27 AM Александр wrote: 2016-07-20 20:32 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been falsely accused like this. +1! Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to work in 'Merica. that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. Otherwise it's medieval inquisition. Period. >So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people said robbed them? Let an accused child molester be alone with your kids >because they were never convicted? >There are different standards of proof for different functions. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not necessary for "we don't want this person >associated with our project/company/etc". No standard whatsoever is required for an individual deciding with whom to do business, who to trust >to watch their kids or housesit, etc. I absolutely agree with your statement.  Too many people forget that "beyond a reasonable doubt"and "innocent until proven guilty" are simply terms which apply to the American (and British, and others)legal systems, and don't automatically apply to all other human interaction.  (That doesn't mean that we should somehowadopt "guilty until proven innocent").                 Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5310 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Wed Jul 20 20:11:45 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:11:45 -0700 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <73af7d0df0fdc2400b7c896051cdcf4f@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > John: > Yeah that's exactly what's meant > Control is the intention; fairness is the costume. Wordlife, Spencer From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 20 17:45:43 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:45:43 -0400 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On July 20, 2016 12:07:50 PM EDT, Spencer wrote: >Hi, > >> >> John Newman: >> Yes doping is a huge fucking problem >> > >Yeah, we wouldn't want people healing faster or getting stronger. > >They should be made to eat gluten free and vegan before they compete, >too, so they are extra weak and can give others a chance. > Yeah that's exactly what's meant by the anti doping regs. Give me a fucking break. Who gives a shit about the Olympics anyway. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 20 17:57:52 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:57:52 -0400 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: On July 20, 2016 7:19:35 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:17:52AM -0700, Spencer wrote: >> >Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the >> >business and consumer markets >> >> I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 >and XP >> will still be paying for support q: > >I never understood why folks upgraded from WfWG3.1 - 98 was -never- as >stable, except when nothing was installed (including drivers). Not to >mention those ghastly green hills... I never understood why anyone would run Windows -at all-. Linux and *BSD have both been totally usable for 20+ years now... John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 11:14:25 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:14:25 +0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: 2016-07-20 20:32 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : > Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. > I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been falsely accused > like this. > +1! Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to work in > 'Merica. > that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. Otherwise it's medieval inquisition. Period. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 11:21:26 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 21:21:26 +0300 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-07-20 19:47 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch : > a system is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass > destruction. > > The capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good > for is war. > Brilliant! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 825 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 05:45:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:45:57 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160720124557.GC30324@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:35:52AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > > > > On Jul 19, 2016, at 7:02 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > So you're American, and some rogue trainers, agency guys and atheletes > > have been doping, like say your cyclists, sprinters and the odd swimmer. > > > > Since this doping scandal is "systemic" in North Amerika, it is > > evidently appropriate to ban all American's from participating at the > > games, unless they can prove their innocence. > > > Yes doping is a huge fucking problem in every country that can afford > it. However, the US of Ass, as tyrannical a bunch of fucks as they > are, have not had a whistle blower like Roschenkov come forward and > make broad claims that there is US govmt sponsored doping program, > with the CIA acting as facilitators for clean blood / urine / drugs... > as your surely must know, this has happened for Russia. A whistleblower is someone who provides facts/ data such as emails, letters, you know, the sort of stuff that Wikileaks would publish if it were compelling and likely to be true or verifiable in some way. There was in fact talk of the entire US cycling team being banned some years back. Anyway, even if the your government were shown to be encouraging their athletes to use doping enhancement drugs, if you were personally not using drugs, would you consider it due process of law that you were blanket banned from participating in the Olympic games and, due to your patriotism, representing your country? I would stand for your right to participate and represent your country. The alternative is guilt by association, penalty without trial and conviction; this alternative would imply a political campaign of abuse of fairness and due process and would personally stand vehemently against that, no matter the country targetted, ON PRINCIPLE! Seems to me there is this mindset in America that the law/ judicial process/ democratic principles/ international law, all of these things should be bypassed - there should be no checks and balances, merely the say so of a disgruntled or paid-off "whistleblower" who only says "he said she said", i.e. hear say only. On principle this is the pathway to despotism. Allow such despotism against your enemies and ultimately you allow despotism, in principle, against yourself. How we treat our purported "enemies" and "bad guys" when they are in a position of weakness and we are holding the cards of power (/ political correctness/ purported authority, etc) - THAT makes the mark of a nation and a man! America be a mighty bully at this point in history ... we must stand against bullying, on all levels! > I would swear it seems like you must be getting paid by the FSB for > much of this pro-Russian Rah-rah-Putin-is-our-man shit you spout Zen, > if I didn't know better ;) (which I don't) Or maybe it's "ideological" Principled ~= ideological. Guilty as charged... (PS, 'shit' aint shit, if it's true; and how else do you suggest we judge a man except by his words and his deeds?) From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 05:48:03 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:48:03 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <2A5D15C8-3C1D-4A61-B171-0473F340B8EE@riseup.net> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <2A5D15C8-3C1D-4A61-B171-0473F340B8EE@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160720124803.GD30324@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 05:05:51AM -0700, Ted Smith wrote: > Quality cypherpunks content as always, Zenaan. If only they had encrypted the doping! So Ted, what do you say is "the rule of law" or the "principles of justice" in an anarchist context? Or is there no room for the international Olympic games in a global anarchist society world? From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 05:55:50 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 22:55:50 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160720124557.GC30324@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> <20160720124557.GC30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160720125550.GF30324@x220-a02> > of fairness and due process and would personally stand vehemently > against that, no matter the country targetted, ON PRINCIPLE! "and --I-- would stand vehemently against that" From bastianifortress at yandex.com Wed Jul 20 14:26:01 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 23:26:01 +0200 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey - probable conclusion In-Reply-To: <2f44faa6-d752-65db-cc1f-901d480d4a1c@riseup.net> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160718060240.GI16437@x220-a02> <578CE6AA.3070100@riseup.net> <20160718233302.GL16437@x220-a02> <08a1b357-5019-c906-5952-e6ee07ebc119@riseup.net> <20160719074113.GQ16437@x220-a02> <578DFCA4.7080707@riseup.net> <2f44faa6-d752-65db-cc1f-901d480d4a1c@riseup.net> Message-ID: <271601469049961@web21g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 902 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Wed Jul 20 21:57:42 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 00:57:42 -0400 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <73af7d0df0fdc2400b7c896051cdcf4f@openmailbox.org> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> <73af7d0df0fdc2400b7c896051cdcf4f@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: On July 20, 2016 11:11:45 PM EDT, Spencer wrote: >Hi, > >> >> John: >> Yeah that's exactly what's meant >> > >Control is the intention; fairness is the costume. > >Wordlife, >Spencer Umm... Insight was the intent; asinine was the reality. You a big Lance Armstrong fan? Barry Bonds? This seems like a remarkably stupid thing to continue discussing. Homeslice, John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 00:43:58 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:43:58 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 12:26 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 01:52:11 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > >> On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 >>> Mirimir wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>>>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was >>>>> right all along about Tor Inc. >>>> >>>> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) >>>> >>>> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government >>>> uses it for evil. >>> >>> So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain >>> fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? >>> >>> Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. >>> If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT >>> SECURE. >>> >>> Is something unclear? >> >> What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what >> you've shared. > > It certainly is 'technical', pretty basic, and you must be > as aware of this just as I am, so I don't understand why you > want me to repeat it. Trolling? Bah. > > But here it goes again! Pay fucking attention. > > The US military is a 'global adversary' - they have enough taps > on cables, exchanges, ASs, whatever, to be able to deanonimize > tor users. Especially so called 'hidden' services. > > > On the other hand, people like, say, Ross Ulbricht, don't have > taps on the global fiber infrastructure, don't have access to > IXPs, can't hack routers, etc. Get that? > > Furthermore the only psychos who have that level of access to > the 'infrastructure' are the syverson psychos, the US military. > > The US military can spy on all the planet - no other national > government can do that. That why they can safely use tor, and > no one else can. What you say is possible. But none of us actually know how bad it is. Except, of course, for those with privileged information about US military capabilities ;) Tor Project says: | Anonymity Online | | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself | against network surveillance and traffic | analysis. | Tor prevents people from | learning your location or | browsing habits. You warn people not to use Tor, because it's useless against US military. And as I recall, you also reject Tor on moral grounds, because US military uses it for evil. I consider both positions to be irresponsible. Conning people into using Tor recklessly, with insecure setups, is at best irresponsible. If the goal is cover traffic for US military, it's malicious. But frightening people from using Tor, when there are no viable alternatives, is also at best irresponsible. Even if Tor is more or less useless against US military, it still protects users against other adversaries. And arguably it even protects most users from US military, if only because they're not important enough to focus on. >> So it sounds like just an assumption. >> >>>> It's the same argument that we make about encryption >>>> generally. >>> >>> No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. >>> >>> >>>> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep >>>> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. >>> >>> Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities >>> that your enemies don't have. >> >> That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) > > > No fallacy. YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT. Putting it in caps doesn't make it right :) >> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? > > They can be OK, and I don't care for any 'general theory' about > backdoors anyway - I'm just talking about or. I disagree about backdoors generally. But specifically about vulnerability of Tor to global adversaries, you may be right. But also you may be wrong. > The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US military > has sabotaged the internet. Actually, they pretty much invented it ;) >> Or are you >> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. > > I don't think they are the dumb ones here... ;) >> That >> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >> > > Yep. There's nothing surprinsing about that. I wonder if they have AIs yet. That would be amazing! >>>> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. >>> >>> What wouldn't work? >> >> Let's assume, hypothetically, > > > Sorry Mirimir, if you first acknowledge facts, then I might > entertain your hypotheticals. > > >> that Tor is secure for everyone. And >> let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. > > > Are you trolling me? Not at all, Juan :) >> If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? >> >> Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? I'm just wanting to clarify your position. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 00:54:45 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 01:16 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:24:04 +0000 > Sean Lynch wrote: > > >>>> Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. >>>> If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT >>>> SECURE. >>>> >>>> Is something unclear? >>> >>> What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from >>> what you've shared. So it sounds like just an assumption. >>> >> >> So much about security is based on probabilities and unknowns, > > > It seems kinda obvious to me that analyzing the security of > say a symetric encryption algorithm is very different > than analyzing the security of something like tor. > > In the case of tor there a A LOT more probabilities and > unknowns involved. Also in the case of tor there are a few very > damning knowns. > > So, any advertising regarding something like tor must have a > lot more disclaimers than say, AES advertising. I totally agree with you on that. I want Tor Project to put more disclaimers and warnings on their front page. >> and >> our own privacy is such a personal issue, that I don't think this is >> something that's going to be solved by "evidence." Some people are >> going to be uncomfortable using or supporting Tor no matter what >> because of its history, > > It's not just 'history'. Tor is fucked up because of its > nature, purpose and past and current funding. > > >> and now potentially because they blame Tor >> for what happened to Appelbaum. > > The appelbaum soap opera is totally irrelevant actually, except > that it's good because it shows that the members of the tor > project are backstabbing clowns. Indeed :) > Now, think how much trust people who don't even trust > themselves deserve. Tor is open source, so trusting software doesn't depend entirely on trusting coders. >> Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known >> for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most >> of what he's accused of. >> But I blame the community for tolerating it >> and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have >> existed without the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying >> to force a kiss on a woman, just wished they had such big balls >> rather than being concerned over whether or not she actually wanted >> that. >> >> >>>>> It's the same argument that we make about encryption >>>>> generally. >>>> >>>> No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. >>> >> >> I think that what they are saying is that whether or not crypto is >> effective for a given application depends on the resources your >> adversaries are able and willing to apply to breaking it. > > > The 'traffic analysis' of tor is not even crypto. It's based on > IXPs taps, not on fancy math and number crunching. It's based on intercepts _and_ "fancy math and number crunching". >>>>> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep >>>>> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. >>>> >>>> Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities >>>> that your enemies don't have. >>> >>> That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) >>> >> >> Agreed. It's also the fundamental fallacy behind all of the NSA's >> attempts to weaken crypto. > > > There isn't any fallacy there. They weaken crypto because that > serves their ends. > > And if they need a 'secure' cypher they won't use any of the > ones they sabotaged. > > But, again, this doesn't apply to tor. You are very suspicious ;) >>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you >>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That >>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >>> >> >> The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. > > > I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you are > not thinking as correctly as you should. They have done some pretty stupid things. >>>>> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. >>>> >>>> What wouldn't work? >>> >>> Let's assume, hypothetically, that Tor is secure for everyone. And >>> let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. >>> >>> If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? >>> >>> Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? >>> >>> > > From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 01:20:37 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:20:37 -0600 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579085D5.3030408@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 06:45 PM, John wrote: > > > On July 20, 2016 12:07:50 PM EDT, Spencer wrote: >> Hi, >> >>> >>> John Newman: >>> Yes doping is a huge fucking problem >>> >> >> Yeah, we wouldn't want people healing faster or getting stronger. So why can't Olympics be about who has best drugs, nanotech, etc? >> They should be made to eat gluten free and vegan before they compete, >> too, so they are extra weak and can give others a chance. > Yeah that's exactly what's meant by the anti doping regs. Give me a > fucking break. Who gives a shit about the Olympics anyway. Not me. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 01:26:30 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:26:30 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57908736.6060409@riseup.net> On 07/20/2016 10:03 AM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/19/2016 02:31 AM, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: >>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 Mirimir >>> wrote: >>> >>>> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not >>>> broken/breakable by design. >>> >>> keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully >>> satisfied yet. >> He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after >> all. >> >> But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US >> military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure >> communication, but only by making it public, for use by both >> funders and their enemies. >> >> It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to >> US military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that >> it's intentionally designed to be vulnerable. There's also the >> fact that nobody has come up with anything practical that's not >> vulnerable to global adversaries. So it seems unlikely that he >> had such a design that he put aside as unsellable. >> >> > > You're arguing logically with a brain-dead troll Mirimir... I don't consider Juan to be a troll. I get that he doesn't have much patience with those whom he sees as fools :) But being considered a fool has never bothered me ;) It's my favorite Tarot card. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 01:49:44 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:49:44 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 12:47 AM, juan wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:13:27 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >>>> But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US >>>> military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure >>>> communication, but only by making it public, for use by both >>>> funders and their enemies. >>> >>> Oh come on Mirimir. As 'we' know, they did the only thing >>> they could have done. >>> >>> The only way for them to be able to exploit their users as >>> cover is by making the system 'public' and 'free'. They >>> didn't do it because of ANY altruistic and humanitarian motivation. >>> They had no other choice, and it was good propaganda to >>> boot! >> >> I didn't say that there was anything altruistic or humanitarian about >> it. And yes, they did what they had to do. > > > So, what point were you making? Syverson and co. did the only > thing they could have done if they wanted to help the US nazi > military - What exactly is 'respectable' about that? > > Any 'good' they did, they did it only as means to do as much > damage as they could. It's clear from Syverson's writing that he has a devious sense of humor. And that he gets off on being clever. So I consider it possible that he was just fucking with them. It amuses me. But anyway, it's pointless to argue about people's motivations. What we have now is Tor. Do we ignore it, or make the best of it? I say that it's better than nothing. You disagree. So it goes. >>> So, >>> >>> 1) They need human shields, their abused 'users' >> >> Yes, they do. All Tor users do, actually. > > > I don't know. What I do know is that the ones who created the > system and misrepresent it are syverson and co. Whoever controls Tor Project is misrepresenting it. We agree on that. What we disagree about is how badly they are misrepresenting it. >>> 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the >>> system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. >> >> Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. I can't imagine how you know. > > > If you don't want to use basic reasoning skills and want to > ignore evidence regarding how far the sabotage of internet > 'security' goes, that's your problem. So tell me again, what would you have people use instead of Tor? >> I >> do agree that it's prudent to be suspicious. But no better >> alternatives have been implemented. > > So what. You know, to me you sound like a christian who > want to believe bullshit because he doesn't want to face > reality. Is the tor fairy tale comforting? Same question. What to use, if not Tor? Nothing? How is that better? >> So the best option that I see is >> layering stuff. Route Tor through nested VPNs. Route Mixmaster, Pond, >> Bitmessage, etc through Tor. Encrypt private stuff with GnuPG. > > Not the issue at hand... Huh? What the bloody hell do you mean by that? >>>> It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to >>>> US military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's >>>> intentionally designed to be vulnerable. >>> >>> The distinction looks rather subtle. It's actually >>> invisible and non-existent from my point of view... >> >> Maybe so. >> >>>> There's also the fact that >>>> nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to >>>> global adversaries. >>> >>> Hardly surprising cosidering how powerful the US government >>> is and how far its control over 'industry' and 'academy' goes. It >>> includes the 'community' of sold out 'hackers' too. >> >> If your assessment is correct, we are truly fucked :( > > > If you expect help from the establishment you certainly are fucked. You work with what you have. >>> Also, it should be obvious that having bad and *subsidized* >>> systems like tor fucks up the 'market' for security. >> >> Yes, it does :( >> >>>> So it seems unlikely that he had such a design >>>> that he put aside as unsellable. >>>> >>> >>> > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 23:26:18 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:26:18 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 01:52:11 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > >> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was > >>> right all along about Tor Inc. > >> > >> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) > >> > >> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government > >> uses it for evil. > > > > So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain > > fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? > > > > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. > > If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT > > SECURE. > > > > Is something unclear? > > What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what > you've shared. It certainly is 'technical', pretty basic, and you must be as aware of this just as I am, so I don't understand why you want me to repeat it. Trolling? Bah. But here it goes again! Pay fucking attention. The US military is a 'global adversary' - they have enough taps on cables, exchanges, ASs, whatever, to be able to deanonimize tor users. Especially so called 'hidden' services. On the other hand, people like, say, Ross Ulbricht, don't have taps on the global fiber infrastructure, don't have access to IXPs, can't hack routers, etc. Get that? Furthermore the only psychos who have that level of access to the 'infrastructure' are the syverson psychos, the US military. The US military can spy on all the planet - no other national government can do that. That why they can safely use tor, and no one else can. > So it sounds like just an assumption. > > >> It's the same argument that we make about encryption > >> generally. > > > > No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > > > > > >> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > >> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > > > Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities > > that your enemies don't have. > > That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) No fallacy. YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT. > > So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? They can be OK, and I don't care for any 'general theory' about backdoors anyway - I'm just talking about or. The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US military has sabotaged the internet. > Or are you > just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. I don't think they are the dumb ones here... > That > they're so confident about their superior capabilities? > Yep. There's nothing surprinsing about that. > >> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > > > > What wouldn't work? > > Let's assume, hypothetically, Sorry Mirimir, if you first acknowledge facts, then I might entertain your hypotheticals. > that Tor is secure for everyone. And > let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. Are you trolling me? > > If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? > > Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 23:47:32 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:47:32 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 02:13:27 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > >> But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US > >> military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure > >> communication, but only by making it public, for use by both > >> funders and their enemies. > > > > Oh come on Mirimir. As 'we' know, they did the only thing > > they could have done. > > > > The only way for them to be able to exploit their users as > > cover is by making the system 'public' and 'free'. They > > didn't do it because of ANY altruistic and humanitarian motivation. > > They had no other choice, and it was good propaganda to > > boot! > > I didn't say that there was anything altruistic or humanitarian about > it. And yes, they did what they had to do. So, what point were you making? Syverson and co. did the only thing they could have done if they wanted to help the US nazi military - What exactly is 'respectable' about that? Any 'good' they did, they did it only as means to do as much damage as they could. > > > So, > > > > 1) They need human shields, their abused 'users' > > Yes, they do. All Tor users do, actually. I don't know. What I do know is that the ones who created the system and misrepresent it are syverson and co. > > > 2) The system doesn't pose a threat to 'GPAs' - that is the > > system doesn't pose a threat to its owner, the US military. > > Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. I can't imagine how you know. If you don't want to use basic reasoning skills and want to ignore evidence regarding how far the sabotage of internet 'security' goes, that's your problem. > I > do agree that it's prudent to be suspicious. But no better > alternatives have been implemented. So what. You know, to me you sound like a christian who want to believe bullshit because he doesn't want to face reality. Is the tor fairy tale comforting? > So the best option that I see is > layering stuff. Route Tor through nested VPNs. Route Mixmaster, Pond, > Bitmessage, etc through Tor. Encrypt private stuff with GnuPG. Not the issue at hand... > > >> It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to > >> US military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that it's > >> intentionally designed to be vulnerable. > > > > The distinction looks rather subtle. It's actually > > invisible and non-existent from my point of view... > > Maybe so. > > >> There's also the fact that > >> nobody has come up with anything practical that's not vulnerable to > >> global adversaries. > > > > Hardly surprising cosidering how powerful the US government > > is and how far its control over 'industry' and 'academy' goes. It > > includes the 'community' of sold out 'hackers' too. > > If your assessment is correct, we are truly fucked :( If you expect help from the establishment you certainly are fucked. > > > Also, it should be obvious that having bad and *subsidized* > > systems like tor fucks up the 'market' for security. > > Yes, it does :( > > >> So it seems unlikely that he had such a design > >> that he put aside as unsellable. > >> > > > > From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 02:54:34 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:54:34 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 02:46 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:43:58 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >>> >>> The US military can spy on all the planet - no other >>> national government can do that. That why they can safely use tor, >>> and no one else can. >> >> What you say is possible. > > Possible? > > Do you think that the utah datacenter is fantasy, that the > klein 'disclosures' about ATT are fantasy, that all the > snowden stuff is fantasy, etc? > > Those are not possibilities, those are facts. Your claims go far beyond any evidence that I've seen. >> Except, of course, for those with privileged information about US >> military capabilities ;) > > > The info is in the fucking public domain. And, considering > what's in the public domain, even retards should assume that > their 'secret' capabilities are even bigger. That's a fair argument. But again, you work with what you have. >> Tor Project says: >> >> | Anonymity Online >> | >> | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself >> | against network surveillance and traffic >> | analysis. >> >> | Tor prevents people from >> | learning your location or >> | browsing habits. >> >> You warn people not to use Tor, because it's useless against US >> military. > > and even against the FBI, actually. Oh, here's more very old > news > > 'DEA and NSA Team Up to Share Intelligence, Leading to Secret > Use of Surveillance in Ordinary Investigations" > > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering > > >> And as I recall, you also reject Tor on moral grounds, >> because US military uses it for evil. > > I am a libertarian. I correctly recognize the US military as > the biggest threat to civilization on the whole fucking planet. We all use knives, which military use to kill. One of my favorites is an old German gravity knife, used by paratroopers. It's very convenient for one-handed use. >> I consider both positions to be irresponsible. Conning people into >> using Tor recklessly, with insecure setups, is at best irresponsible. >> If the goal is cover traffic for US military, it's malicious. >> >> But frightening people from using Tor, > > > I am not frightening anyone. I'm telling people the truth. Had > people like Ulbricht assumed that tor was fucked he wouldn't be > roting in jail right now, for instance. If he had done it without Tor, he would have been in jail a lot sooner! It is likely that he pushed his luck too far using Tor. >> when there are no viable >> alternatives, is also at best irresponsible. > > > You know there are alternatives. You just were promoting > vpns a couple of days ago on tor-talk (and I'm glad you were) Nested VPN chains are also vulnerable to global adversaries. It may be that all low-latency anonymity systems that can scale to many users are vulnerable to global adversaries. >> Even if Tor is more or >> less useless against US military, it still protects users against >> other adversaries. And arguably it even protects most users from US >> military, if only because they're not important enough to focus on. > > > Tell that to freedom hosting and all the rest. I can keep going > in circles, you know, constantly refuting your propaganda... Yes, we do keep coming back to the same circular discussion, don't we? I'm concerned that Tor is pwned by US military, but I'm not convinced that rejecting it entirely is the best course. >>>> So it sounds like just an assumption. >>>> >>>>>> It's the same argument that we make about encryption >>>>>> generally. >>>>> >>>>> No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep >>>>>> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. >>>>> >>>>> Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires >>>>> capabilities that your enemies don't have. >>>> >>>> That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) >>> >>> >>> No fallacy. YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT. >> >> Putting it in caps doesn't make it right :) > > > You just repeat baseless, wrong assertions, so I'm going to keep > saying that your baseless assertions ARE FALSE. > > YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT and I already explained why, > twice. Or perhaps ten times. Tor is backdoored by design. GPAs > have access to the backdoor. That's not really a backdoor. You argue that Tor is vulnerable to global adversaries, and was designed that way. But it's not just Tor. It seems that all low-latency anonymity systems that scale to numerous users are vulnerable to global adversaries. >>>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? >>> >>> They can be OK, and I don't care for any 'general theory' >>> about backdoors anyway - I'm just talking about or. >> >> I disagree about backdoors generally. >> >> But specifically about vulnerability of Tor to global adversaries, you >> may be right. But also you may be wrong. > > Cosmic bullshit. I'm just saying that you don't know for sure. You may think that you do. But there's just too much uncertainty. You said as much in another thread. The issue is what to do when there's uncertainty. We disagree. >>> The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US >>> military has sabotaged the internet. >> >> Actually, they pretty much invented it ;) > > > Oh yes. We lived in the stone age before the US miliary > invented duct tape. Pretty much ;) At least, initial development of computers was mainly driven by military. >>>> Or are you >>>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. >>> >>> I don't think they are the dumb ones here... >> >> ;) >> >>>> That >>>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >>>> >>> >>> Yep. There's nothing surprinsing about that. >> >> I wonder if they have AIs yet. That would be amazing! > > > Yes, kurzweil is an AI. He's as clever as google's spam filter. I was pointing to the difficulty of interpreting global intercepts. >>>>>> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. >>>>> >>>>> What wouldn't work? >>>> >>>> Let's assume, hypothetically, >>> >>> >>> Sorry Mirimir, if you first acknowledge facts, then I might >>> entertain your hypotheticals. >>> >>> >>>> that Tor is secure for everyone. And >>>> let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. >>> >>> >>> Are you trolling me? >> >> Not at all, Juan :) > > > Hm, I misread the part about evil? The US military uses tor for > evil, there's nothing 'hypothetical' about that. Is that what > you are saying? > > So the only hypothetical part would be tor actually working... Yes. I thought that was clear. >>>> If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? >>>> >>>> Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? > > Even if it worked I wouldn't recommend it. OK, thanks, that's what I thought. > Although the question is too vague and of course loaded. > > Would a real anonimity network make it possible to actually > cause substantial damage to the government? In that case it > might be worthwhile to try it. Perhaps. More than damaged, I want to see governments gone. > But would any government create something that can be used to > destroy it? Obviously not, so your hypothetical is just > diversion (in the 'military' sense). Sorry. Sure they would. Nuclear weapons, for example. Or biological warfare, which is now pretty much doable at home. Or personal computers and the Internet :) >> I'm just wanting to clarify your position. Thanks. From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 03:14:24 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:14:24 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 03:00 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > >> >> I totally agree with you on that. I want Tor Project to put more >> disclaimers and warnings on their front page. > > Yeah. Just like used car dealers do =) > > I want the tor project to explain what tor is, exactly. To > explain what the state is, how it is funded. To explain > what the US state is, what it has done and what it does. > > > And to finally explain that they, the tor project, work for > those motherfucking psychos known as the American State, helping > their imperial project while vomiting hypocritical nonsense > about 'human rights' and 'oppresed womyn' > > Let me know when they behave like decent humans being and do > that. At this point, I'd settle for some disclaimers and warnings about vulnerabilities, and links to resources for addressing them. >>> Now, think how much trust people who don't even trust >>> themselves deserve. >> >> Tor is open source, so trusting software doesn't depend entirely on >> trusting coders. > > Come on, not that one... It ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing. >>> The 'traffic analysis' of tor is not even crypto. It's >>> based on IXPs taps, not on fancy math and number crunching. >> >> It's based on intercepts _and_ "fancy math and number crunching". > > No. It's timing, counting packets that kind of thing. Nothing > fancy. I suppose they have dedicated hardware to do that sort > of correlation, well call that 'number crunching' if you want... Not that simple. Maybe not "fancy", but there's a *lot* of data. And when you look for correlation at such scales, false positives are a *huge* problem. >>> There isn't any fallacy there. They weaken crypto because >>> that serves their ends. >>> >>> And if they need a 'secure' cypher they won't use any of the >>> ones they sabotaged. >>> >>> But, again, this doesn't apply to tor. >> >> You are very suspicious ;) > > > Yes. Do you 'trust' them? =) I don't trust anyone :) >>>>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you >>>>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That >>>>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >>>>> >>>> >>>> The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. >>> >>> >>> I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you >>> are not thinking as correctly as you should. >> >> They have done some pretty stupid things. > > > For instance? I think 'stupid' in this context would mean > "things that reduced their power and influence". I don't think > the power of the US military, which is of course the heart of > any state, is decreasing. Quite the contrary. So, I'd describe > as rather clever in their little brown-children-murdering game. They did succeed in taking down the Soviet Union, by forcing it to bankrupt itself and disappoint its population. But I think that they've consistently fucked up in the Middle East. Generally, they focus too much on short-term objectives, and set themselves up for eventual failure. They count too much on brute force. > Look the US military blew up the WTC to have an excuse to > impose a global 'cyber' police state. How's their little plan > proceeding? Short term, it's doing OK. Long term, probably not so good. I suspect that the Chinese have pwned them hard. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 00:16:24 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:16:24 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:24:04 +0000 Sean Lynch wrote: > > > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. > > > If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT > > > SECURE. > > > > > > Is something unclear? > > > > What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from > > what you've shared. So it sounds like just an assumption. > > > > So much about security is based on probabilities and unknowns, It seems kinda obvious to me that analyzing the security of say a symetric encryption algorithm is very different than analyzing the security of something like tor. In the case of tor there a A LOT more probabilities and unknowns involved. Also in the case of tor there are a few very damning knowns. So, any advertising regarding something like tor must have a lot more disclaimers than say, AES advertising. > and > our own privacy is such a personal issue, that I don't think this is > something that's going to be solved by "evidence." Some people are > going to be uncomfortable using or supporting Tor no matter what > because of its history, It's not just 'history'. Tor is fucked up because of its nature, purpose and past and current funding. > and now potentially because they blame Tor > for what happened to Appelbaum. The appelbaum soap opera is totally irrelevant actually, except that it's good because it shows that the members of the tor project are backstabbing clowns. Now, think how much trust people who don't even trust themselves deserve. > > Personally, from having talked to people who knew him that I've known > for years, I am inclined to believe that Appelbaum did at least most > of what he's accused of. > But I blame the community for tolerating it > and saying nothing at least as much as I blame him. He could not have > existed without the legions of fanboys who, when they saw him trying > to force a kiss on a woman, just wished they had such big balls > rather than being concerned over whether or not she actually wanted > that. > > > > >> It's the same argument that we make about encryption > > >> generally. > > > > > > No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > > > > I think that what they are saying is that whether or not crypto is > effective for a given application depends on the resources your > adversaries are able and willing to apply to breaking it. The 'traffic analysis' of tor is not even crypto. It's based on IXPs taps, not on fancy math and number crunching. > > > > >> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > > >> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > > > > > > Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires capabilities > > > that your enemies don't have. > > > > That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) > > > > Agreed. It's also the fundamental fallacy behind all of the NSA's > attempts to weaken crypto. There isn't any fallacy there. They weaken crypto because that serves their ends. And if they need a 'secure' cypher they won't use any of the ones they sabotaged. But, again, this doesn't apply to tor. > > > > So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you > > just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That > > they're so confident about their superior capabilities? > > > > The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you are not thinking as correctly as you should. > > > > >> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > > > > > > What wouldn't work? > > > > Let's assume, hypothetically, that Tor is secure for everyone. And > > let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. > > > > If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? > > > > Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? > > > > From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 03:22:58 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:22:58 -0600 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 03:19 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:49:44 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: >>> If you expect help from the establishment you certainly are >>> fucked. >> >> You work with what you have. > > That is absurd. If what you have is not fitted for the task at > hand you are just wasting your time. OK, but here you are, using a GMail address, and presumably nothing to substantively obscure your identity. Maybe you're not "wasting your time", but you are for sure trusting your environment. And, I would argue, you are limiting yourself to what you can say and do that won't get you fucked up. From seanl at literati.org Wed Jul 20 21:48:44 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:48:44 +0000 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 18:03 John wrote: > > > On July 20, 2016 7:19:35 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:17:52AM -0700, Spencer wrote: > >> >Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the > >> >business and consumer markets > >> > >> I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 > >and XP > >> will still be paying for support q: > > > >I never understood why folks upgraded from WfWG3.1 - 98 was -never- as > >stable, except when nothing was installed (including drivers). Not to > >mention those ghastly green hills... > > I never understood why anyone would run Windows -at all-. Linux and *BSD > have both been totally usable for 20+ years now... > In '93 when WfWG 3.11 came out and even in '98, Linux was basically a hobbyist OS. Nowadays the problem isn't the OS but the applications. If you're just using a web browser, it's not a problem, but that's essentially what ChromeOS is from the perspective of the average user, and Android is rapidly filling that space and has plenty of applications. Which brings up an interesting point more relevant to the original topic, which is that to have any amount of security you really need to know what you're doing. I'm not holding my breath for the government to do anything about that besides exploit it to increase its own power and spy on us. The first thing that should come to one's mind when thinking of government's relationship to private industry and cybersecurity is AT&T's (and others) cooperation with the NSA and the government's subsequent shielding of them from any liability for it. That which is permitted rapidly becomes mandatory when government has all kinds of extra laws it can enforce at its own discretion, and privileges like indemnification that it can extend or withdraw as it likes. > John > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2710 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 01:46:09 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 05:46:09 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:43:58 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > > > The US military can spy on all the planet - no other > > national government can do that. That why they can safely use tor, > > and no one else can. > > What you say is possible. Possible? Do you think that the utah datacenter is fantasy, that the klein 'disclosures' about ATT are fantasy, that all the snowden stuff is fantasy, etc? Those are not possibilities, those are facts. > Except, of course, for those with privileged information about US > military capabilities ;) The info is in the fucking public domain. And, considering what's in the public domain, even retards should assume that their 'secret' capabilities are even bigger. > > Tor Project says: > > | Anonymity Online > | > | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself > | against network surveillance and traffic > | analysis. > > | Tor prevents people from > | learning your location or > | browsing habits. > > You warn people not to use Tor, because it's useless against US > military. and even against the FBI, actually. Oh, here's more very old news 'DEA and NSA Team Up to Share Intelligence, Leading to Secret Use of Surveillance in Ordinary Investigations" https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering > And as I recall, you also reject Tor on moral grounds, > because US military uses it for evil. I am a libertarian. I correctly recognize the US military as the biggest threat to civilization on the whole fucking planet. > > I consider both positions to be irresponsible. Conning people into > using Tor recklessly, with insecure setups, is at best irresponsible. > If the goal is cover traffic for US military, it's malicious. > > But frightening people from using Tor, I am not frightening anyone. I'm telling people the truth. Had people like Ulbricht assumed that tor was fucked he wouldn't be roting in jail right now, for instance. > when there are no viable > alternatives, is also at best irresponsible. You know there are alternatives. You just were promoting vpns a couple of days ago on tor-talk (and I'm glad you were) > Even if Tor is more or > less useless against US military, it still protects users against > other adversaries. And arguably it even protects most users from US > military, if only because they're not important enough to focus on. Tell that to freedom hosting and all the rest. I can keep going in circles, you know, constantly refuting your propaganda... > > >> So it sounds like just an assumption. > >> > >>>> It's the same argument that we make about encryption > >>>> generally. > >>> > >>> No it is not. You are *misaplying* the argument. > >>> > >>> > >>>> Systems with backdoors can't be secure. And you can't keep > >>>> anyone from using anonymity systems without backdoors. > >>> > >>> Yes you can if access to the backdoor requires > >>> capabilities that your enemies don't have. > >> > >> That's the fallacy about backdoors ;) > > > > > > No fallacy. YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT. > > Putting it in caps doesn't make it right :) You just repeat baseless, wrong assertions, so I'm going to keep saying that your baseless assertions ARE FALSE. YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT and I already explained why, twice. Or perhaps ten times. Tor is backdoored by design. GPAs have access to the backdoor. > > >> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? > > > > They can be OK, and I don't care for any 'general theory' > > about backdoors anyway - I'm just talking about or. > > I disagree about backdoors generally. > > But specifically about vulnerability of Tor to global adversaries, you > may be right. But also you may be wrong. Cosmic bullshit. > > > The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US > > military has sabotaged the internet. > > Actually, they pretty much invented it ;) Oh yes. We lived in the stone age before the US miliary invented duct tape. > > >> Or are you > >> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. > > > > I don't think they are the dumb ones here... > > ;) > > >> That > >> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? > >> > > > > Yep. There's nothing surprinsing about that. > > I wonder if they have AIs yet. That would be amazing! Yes, kurzweil is an AI. He's as clever as google's spam filter. > > >>>> As I understand Juan's position, that wouldn't work for him. > >>> > >>> What wouldn't work? > >> > >> Let's assume, hypothetically, > > > > > > Sorry Mirimir, if you first acknowledge facts, then I might > > entertain your hypotheticals. > > > > > >> that Tor is secure for everyone. And > >> let's acknowledge that US military uses it for evil. > > > > > > Are you trolling me? > > Not at all, Juan :) Hm, I misread the part about evil? The US military uses tor for evil, there's nothing 'hypothetical' about that. Is that what you are saying? So the only hypothetical part would be tor actually working... > >> If that were so, would you use and recommend Tor? > >> > >> Or would you reject it, because it's used for evil? Even if it worked I wouldn't recommend it. Although the question is too vague and of course loaded. Would a real anonimity network make it possible to actually cause substantial damage to the government? In that case it might be worthwhile to try it. Perhaps. But would any government create something that can be used to destroy it? Obviously not, so your hypothetical is just diversion (in the 'military' sense). Sorry. > > I'm just wanting to clarify your position. > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 02:00:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:00:45 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > I totally agree with you on that. I want Tor Project to put more > disclaimers and warnings on their front page. Yeah. Just like used car dealers do =) I want the tor project to explain what tor is, exactly. To explain what the state is, how it is funded. To explain what the US state is, what it has done and what it does. And to finally explain that they, the tor project, work for those motherfucking psychos known as the American State, helping their imperial project while vomiting hypocritical nonsense about 'human rights' and 'oppresed womyn' Let me know when they behave like decent humans being and do that. > > Now, think how much trust people who don't even trust > > themselves deserve. > > Tor is open source, so trusting software doesn't depend entirely on > trusting coders. Come on, not that one... > > > > The 'traffic analysis' of tor is not even crypto. It's > > based on IXPs taps, not on fancy math and number crunching. > > It's based on intercepts _and_ "fancy math and number crunching". No. It's timing, counting packets that kind of thing. Nothing fancy. I suppose they have dedicated hardware to do that sort of correlation, well call that 'number crunching' if you want... > > > > There isn't any fallacy there. They weaken crypto because > > that serves their ends. > > > > And if they need a 'secure' cypher they won't use any of the > > ones they sabotaged. > > > > But, again, this doesn't apply to tor. > > You are very suspicious ;) Yes. Do you 'trust' them? =) > > >>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you > >>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That > >>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? > >>> > >> > >> The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. > > > > > > I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you > > are not thinking as correctly as you should. > > They have done some pretty stupid things. For instance? I think 'stupid' in this context would mean "things that reduced their power and influence". I don't think the power of the US military, which is of course the heart of any state, is decreasing. Quite the contrary. So, I'd describe as rather clever in their little brown-children-murdering game. Look the US military blew up the WTC to have an excuse to impose a global 'cyber' police state. How's their little plan proceeding? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 02:19:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:19:04 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:49:44 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > It's clear from Syverson's writing that he has a devious sense of > humor. I don't know, although that "users get routed" paper title is clearly an insulting pun. The motherfucker is making FUN of the idiots who get 'rooted' 'routed' using his garbage network. Incredible. > And that he gets off on being clever. So I consider it > possible that he was just fucking with them. It amuses me. > Well, enjoy your amusement... > But anyway, it's pointless to argue about people's motivations. What > we have now is Tor. Do we ignore it, or make the best of it? > > I say that it's better than nothing. You disagree. So it goes. That's your personal preference, not an argument. And the "better than nothing" bit has been addressed ad nauseam. Cheap VPNs are also 'better than nothing'. > Whoever controls Tor Project is misrepresenting it. We agree on that. > > What we disagree about is how badly they are misrepresenting it. OK. > > > > If you don't want to use basic reasoning skills and want to > > ignore evidence regarding how far the sabotage of internet > > 'security' goes, that's your problem. > > So tell me again, what would you have people use instead of Tor? Tell me, do you like cats? > > >> I > >> do agree that it's prudent to be suspicious. But no better > >> alternatives have been implemented. > > > > So what. You know, to me you sound like a christian who > > want to believe bullshit because he doesn't want to face > > reality. Is the tor fairy tale comforting? > > Same question. What to use, if not Tor? Nothing? How is that better? I can't recall if I mentioned VPNs? Freenet? Maidsafe, if they ever finish it? I don't know. Have the 'cypherpunks' create something? Aren't some 'cypherpunks' rather rich? And what about the people who bought bitcoins at 10 cents? Can't they put their money where their mouths are? Ah no. Better to use the pentagon's fake anonimity network. > >> So the best option that I see is > >> layering stuff. Route Tor through nested VPNs. Route Mixmaster, > >> Pond, Bitmessage, etc through Tor. Encrypt private stuff with > >> GnuPG. > > > > Not the issue at hand... > > Huh? > > What the bloody hell do you mean by that? I'm not focussing on how to apply patches to broken-by-design tor at the moment... > > > > If you expect help from the establishment you certainly are > > fucked. > > You work with what you have. That is absurd. If what you have is not fitted for the task at hand you are just wasting your time. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 02:21:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:21:04 -0300 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 Sean Lynch wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: > > > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 > > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and > > > move to something allegedly better? > > > > > > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor are > > resources that can't be used in good projects. > > > > They are not your resources to redirect, No they are not mine. They belong to the people who the US gov't/military robs. No taxes no tor. > but the resources expended > on Tor are tiny compared to, say, Bitcoin. What, the pentagon puts more money on bitcoin than tor?? =) > Or even just Ethereum. > This is not a good argument, and I think it may be motivated by your > own personal feelings about Tor. My feelings about tor are the logical result of basic moral principles, reasoning and bla bla bla. I am not a 10 year old girl having a fit about dressing. And actually I'd expect 10 year old kids to be smarter about authority and the establishment than any tor apologist =P Tor is criminal garbage created by the pentagon to serve their ends. It would be very weird for a libertarian anarchist(your caee I think?) to believe otherwise. > Which you are perfectly entitled to > have, but you should not be surprised when people who do not share > those feelings don't find your arguments based on them compelling. Come on Sean, do not take me for an idiot. My arguments are arguments. They are not based on 'feelings'. If anything the people driven by feelings, not logic and evidence, are the tor supporters. > > > > Certainly some advanced attack and/or backdoor will screw them > > > all. > > > > > > For a start, I would like to know: > > > > > > 1. What are alternatives to tor (possibly with less > > > functionality)? 2. Is the alternative known to be in bed with > > > shady stuff like TLAs? 3. Did they have braindamaged bugs (like > > > debian's openssl memset())? 4. What is their security/anonymity > > > bug history? 5. To what attacks they are known to be vulnerable? > > > 6. To what attacks they are conjectured to be immune? > > > > > > As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed > > > with USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. > > > > Of course it does. As a matter of fact tor cunts dingledine > > and syverson are part of mit, or part of mit projects like > > 'dissent'. > > > > So design your own? From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 03:40:24 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:40:24 -0400 Subject: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request Message-ID: Please post links to the following documents as they existed covering the most recent portion of FY 2015 up to October 1 2015. In addition, post both the oldest and current version of such documents. - Articles Of Incorporation - Charter - Bylaws - Operating Agreement - Various Licenses and Certificates held - List of Officeholders, Executives, Voting Members, and Shareholders - Form blanks to be signed by new parties of all types Additional documents and parameters. - Filings with governments in 2015, including covering FY 2015 - Various audits, reports, financials in and covering FY 2015 - Meeting Minutes covering years 2010 ~ 2015 Submitted on behalf of users, donors, and interested parties. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 03:50:11 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:50:11 -0400 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <20160721055835.GN30324@x220-a02> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> <20160721055835.GN30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <529F0C36-88DA-4762-B246-703D507F0242@synfin.org> On July 21, 2016 1:58:35 AM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 08:57:52PM -0400, John wrote: >> On July 20, 2016 7:19:35 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness >wrote: >> >On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:17:52AM -0700, Spencer wrote: >> >> >Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the >> >> >business and consumer markets >> >> >> >> I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 >> >and XP >> >> will still be paying for support q: >> > >> >I never understood why folks upgraded from WfWG3.1 - 98 was -never- >as >> >stable, except when nothing was installed (including drivers). Not >to >> >mention those ghastly green hills... > >Actually, it was WfWG 3.11, to be precise. I only had Windows 3.1, and >lusted after the full windows for worgroups edition... > >> I never understood why anyone would run Windows -at all-. Linux and >> *BSD have both been totally usable for 20+ years now... > >I did not know about Linux back then - I had actually heard about gcc >and tried to download it on an old loaner PC running DOS that I had at >the time, but I was getting only 1200baud! After 12 hours, reading >enough to realise I'd be doing a lot of swapping just to use it, I >figured I would wait until after upgrading to one of the new beaut >24/32kbps spangled modems and a better PC. > >A few years later someone I was working with brought in a slackware >full >CD set, and I was pleasantly amazed. Memory is not the best so there >are >probably other events in between. The first time I ever tried to install Linux was on a 286 in I think 1995 (I lagged on quality computers as a kid). I downloaded the kernel source from a BBS at 9600 baud and got totally fucking confused with what to do with the resulting tgz file.... Eventually I was able to extract it in DOS, but of course it was still unusable... Linux needs 32bit and you can't install from a kernel source archive... Anyway I got a Pentium 120 a year or two later and figured it out. Never really looked back. Used a lot of Solaris in late 90s as well - netras were reasonably cheap (are dirt cheap now) John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 03:56:56 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:56:56 -0400 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On July 21, 2016 5:21:04 AM EDT, juan wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 >Sean Lynch wrote: > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: >> >> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 >> > Georgi Guninski wrote: >> > >> > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and >> > > move to something allegedly better? >> > >> > >> > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor >are >> > resources that can't be used in good projects. >> > >> >> They are not your resources to redirect, > > No they are not mine. They belong to the people who the US > gov't/military robs. No taxes no tor. Well, phrasing I guess, but most of the relays just belong to volunteers. I run a relay most of the time, although I dont consider it one of the top 5 or even top 10 services I maintain on that particular box... It's kind of just a half ass interesting service to fuck with occasionally. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 04:01:28 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:01:28 -0400 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On July 21, 2016 2:26:18 AM EDT, juan wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 01:52:11 -0600 >Mirimir wrote: > >> On 07/19/2016 03:38 PM, juan wrote: >> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 03:40:20 -0600 >> > Mirimir wrote: >> > >> >> On 07/19/2016 03:15 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> >>> The dawning inescapable realisation that "he's right" and was >> >>> right all along about Tor Inc. >> >> >> >> Well, I wouldn't go that far ;) >> >> >> >> If Tor were actually secure, I could accept that US government >> >> uses it for evil. >> > >> > So Mirimir, what's the problem here? Am I failing to explain >> > fuckingly basic facts or are you playing dumb? >> > >> > Tor IS actually secure IF YOU ARE THE FUCKING US MILITARY. >> > If on the other hand you are one of their TARGETS then tor IS NOT >> > SECURE. >> > >> > Is something unclear? >> >> What's your evidence for that? I doubt that it's technical, from what >> you've shared. > > It certainly is 'technical', pretty basic, and you must be > as aware of this just as I am, so I don't understand why you > want me to repeat it. Trolling? Bah. > > But here it goes again! Pay fucking attention. > > The US military is a 'global adversary' - they have enough taps > on cables, exchanges, ASs, whatever, to be able to deanonimize > tor users. Especially so called 'hidden' services. > > > On the other hand, people like, say, Ross Ulbricht, don't have > taps on the global fiber infrastructure, don't have access to > IXPs, can't hack routers, etc. Get that? I agree, sadly. I still think it's interesting tech though. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 04:15:56 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:15:56 -0400 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> Message-ID: On July 21, 2016 5:54:34 AM EDT, Mirimir wrote: >On 07/21/2016 02:46 AM, juan wrote: >> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:43:58 -0600 >> Mirimir wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> The US military can spy on all the planet - no other >>>> national government can do that. That why they can safely use tor, >>>> and no one else can. >>> >>> What you say is possible. >> >> Possible? >> >> Do you think that the utah datacenter is fantasy, that the >> klein 'disclosures' about ATT are fantasy, that all the >> snowden stuff is fantasy, etc? >> >> Those are not possibilities, those are facts. > >Your claims go far beyond any evidence that I've seen. > >>> Except, of course, for those with privileged information about US >>> military capabilities ;) >> >> >> The info is in the fucking public domain. And, considering >> what's in the public domain, even retards should assume that >> their 'secret' capabilities are even bigger. > >That's a fair argument. But again, you work with what you have. > >>> Tor Project says: >>> >>> | Anonymity Online >>> | >>> | Protect your privacy. Defend yourself >>> | against network surveillance and traffic >>> | analysis. >>> >>> | Tor prevents people from >>> | learning your location or >>> | browsing habits. >>> >>> You warn people not to use Tor, because it's useless against US >>> military. >> >> and even against the FBI, actually. Oh, here's more very old >> news >> >> 'DEA and NSA Team Up to Share Intelligence, Leading to Secret >> Use of Surveillance in Ordinary Investigations" >> >> > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering >> >> >>> And as I recall, you also reject Tor on moral grounds, >>> because US military uses it for evil. >> >> I am a libertarian. I correctly recognize the US military as >> the biggest threat to civilization on the whole fucking planet. > >We all use knives, which military use to kill. One of my favorites is >an >old German gravity knife, used by paratroopers. It's very convenient >for >one-handed use. > >>> I consider both positions to be irresponsible. Conning people into >>> using Tor recklessly, with insecure setups, is at best >irresponsible. >>> If the goal is cover traffic for US military, it's malicious. >>> >>> But frightening people from using Tor, >> >> >> I am not frightening anyone. I'm telling people the truth. Had >> people like Ulbricht assumed that tor was fucked he wouldn't be >> roting in jail right now, for instance. > >If he had done it without Tor, he would have been in jail a lot sooner! > >It is likely that he pushed his luck too far using Tor. > His opsec was horrible even aside from tor. He kept all his torchat logs archived on his laptop, in addition to journals describing the entire creation of the silk road, including the (ridiculous) "murder contracts", etc. But they did find his "hidden" server and get it cloned before all of this, so blaming tor is not unreasonable. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 04:23:30 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:23:30 -0400 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160721104333.GT30324@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> <20160721104333.GT30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <38930EDA-AFE5-4A64-BEE3-2457FA4CA4BB@synfin.org> On July 21, 2016 6:43:33 AM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 04:14:24AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/21/2016 03:00 AM, juan wrote: >> > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 >> > Mirimir wrote: >> >>>>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are >you >> >>>>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That >> >>>>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you >> >>> are not thinking as correctly as you should. >> >> >> >> They have done some pretty stupid things. >> > >> > For instance? I think 'stupid' in this context would mean >> > "things that reduced their power and influence". I don't think >> > the power of the US military, which is of course the heart of >> > any state, is decreasing. Quite the contrary. So, I'd describe >> > as rather clever in their little brown-children-murdering game. >> >> They did succeed in taking down the Soviet Union, by forcing it to >> bankrupt itself and disappoint its population. > >You give too much credence to the USA - communism as practiced by >Stalin's co-horts (different again from Stalinism the modern political >ideology), is sort of like "democracy as practiced by the Western >governments". Both were essentially fascist, certainly statist and >socialist. > >And the massive internal inefficiencies, lack of motivators for those >at >the top to improve efficiencies of the society overall, and other >problems, were a very large part of the problem - Bush and Clinton >declaring behind closed doors "fuck it, we won, we will expand NATO all >the way to Russia's borders" is mostly just ego on the part of certain >North Americans. > > >> But I think that they've >> consistently fucked up in the Middle East. > >Ack. > > >> Generally, they focus too much on short-term objectives, and set >> themselves up for eventual failure. They count too much on brute >> force. > >The crazies from the basement are currently running this USA hegemon - >we call them neocons or neo conservatives since they are puppets of the >USA BISMIC - revolving doors and all that, the turbo charging of >sociopathy. In the words of Juan, they're psycopaths! Respecting no >sovereignty, no international law, not the rule of law, not innocence >until proven guilty, no mutual respect for other nations, no respect >for >the supreme/ultimate sovereignty of the people (any people - it's own >North American humans or humans anywhere else on the planet). > >USA is one seriously psychopathic nation bullying the rest of the world >at the moment and daily droning innumerable humans to death, again all >around the world. > >Insanity incarnate. > Absolutely true. But if you think Russia destroying the hegemon will lead to some sort of Putopia, I think you are seriously deluded... All the big nation states act essentially psychopathic, fermenting conflict, ignoring crucial shit like the fact we are cooking our planet and humanity into an early grave, etc... John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From afalex169 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 21:44:39 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 07:44:39 +0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: Александр wrote: >> Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. >> > I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been falsely accused >> like this. >> > +1! > > > Александр wrote: >> Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to work in >> 'Merica. >> > that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. Otherwise > it's medieval inquisition. Period. > > > 2016-07-20 22:16 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch : > So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people said > robbed them? Let an accused child molester be alone with your kids because > they were never convicted? Let's play this game. > 1. So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people > said robbed them? > > They said? Ok. I'll give you/everybody and example from my personal life: They said? Oh, the old ladies downstairs also saying ... saying... i'm a gay (some of them claim now a pervert one, oh, you know, slander always evolves. and in Russia gay... is worse than a leprous) *so WHY are they saying so?!* a. They are really bored and evil. b. They SAW SOMETHING what they distorted. 'cause they saw me one time "hugging some guy" (it was my brother by the way whom i brought from the airport). AND? Am i a gay?! 'cause the whole building and many relatives of those old ladies are sure AND say i'm a pervert gay. Ok, they say. But with your fucken logic, i am. It's not that i have something against them, but *it's A LIE*. That's the point here. *But people like you, who are "passioned" believe this shit "without a trial" (a check with me, at least)* by the way, God what a howl was one time when i played and laughed with one of their grandchildren... that's the day i first heard this slander about me. Back to your statement "So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people said robbed them?"- I would check it by myself and not PREjudice the person beforehand. And yes, i would do business with someone whom "many" people dislike/judge before he himself proves me he is a fucker (or there was a fair trial). 2. Let an accused child molester be alone with your kids because they were > never convicted? > Sean, he was officially accused, but not convicted or.. you are talking again about "rumors" and "sayings". If so, i don't give a damn shit about those sayings.I, myself, not far away from getting this accusation too. And based on what? Some hallucinations of old grannies with rotten mind? ___ *I claim that ONE CANNOT JUDGE THE OTHER UNLESS HE WAS PERSONALLY ASSAULTED BY HIM/HER OR THAT PERSON WAS OFFICIALLY ACCUSED AND CONVICTED* (so yes, there are very contradictive cases... but at least, this person was officially accused if not convicted and we can inspect all the documents and we know who are his accusers. that's the bare fucken *minimum*, not that there were not thousands of fake cases, especially with women who revenged their "ex man") *And Appelbaum? * You judge him by some fucken rumors - you said that yourself. Exactly like all the parents of this building judged me by rumors created by old bitch and are afraid to see kids near me. Not only there was no conviction in a trial against Appelbaum, but NO EVEN ONE OFFICIAL ACCUSATION from those "victims" (which is no problem to do, you know, but those fuckers don't want to do *the bare minimum*, because they are afraid that the lie will blow up in the police station sooner or later). *So for me, they are SLANDERS. It's a SMEAR CAMPAIGN. Jake IS innocent. That's it.* I am saying a fair trial. And not some fucken rumors. And you are saying "rumors" -> thus Appelbaum/me/you are fucked up. As i said, it's a way to inquisition trials. Which are based on no true evidences, but rumors/feelings and in which you are guilty until proven otherwise. *And this is the ultimate EVIL.* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6029 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 08:49:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 Subject: KRS-1 says 'Lets Box' about Institutional Slander [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> Message-ID: <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> Rapper KRS-One checks in regarding the institutional slander of Hip-Hop master Afrika Bambaataa and backs my play. http://atlantablackstar.com/2016/07/20/krs-one-defends-afrika-bambaataa-tells-those-with-a-problem-to-quit-hip-hop/ Wanna box MFs? Some of you you seem to live in a sheltered cubie world... just waiting for someone you talked smack about to simply show up with a tec9 and finish the discussion. Stress much? The REAL world out there is VERY DIFFERENT, yet after decades of backstabbing and office shooter incidents, some of you remain simply stoopid. As I told a group of people at a public event just the other day in response to a question posed by a local pastor about people talking behind one's back: > "You can talk about me behind my back, or in front of me, but you'd better be speaking the truth or else there's going to be trouble." Someone talking smack without the facts is a snitch waiting to get stitched, and NO ONE will feel sorry for them. Until someone files charges, no matter WHAT the claims are, I back Jacob Appelbaum 100% and I do not even know him. It's called "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest the coding world, and over the years turned it into a damn near useless pursuit... working for the moneymen who pretty much stopped any real development in the world of personal computing dead in it's fucking tracks. Rr On 07/20/2016 06:47 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > On 07/20/2016 12:16 PM, Sean Lynch wrote: > > > So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several > people said robbed them? > > > Depends on who those people are, and if they're not willing to > confront the person BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (in this case meaning get > the cops), I ABSOLUTELY assume bullshit. > > You can say whatever you like, but if you can take action, especially > action that isn't going to get you 30-90 days or longer for dotting > someone's i, and you don't... > > You're a punk. > > Rr > > >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:27 AM Александр > > wrote: >> >> 2016-07-20 20:32 GMT+03:00 Rayzer > >: >> >> Sorry Passion is no excuse for rumor-mongering. >> >> I just happen to know WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE who have been >> falsely accused like this. >> >> +1! >> >> >> Innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it's supposed to >> work in 'Merica. >> >> that's the way it MUST work in any normal society/person's head. >> Otherwise it's medieval inquisition. Period. >> >> >> So you're saying you'd do business with someone that several people >> said robbed them? Let an accused child molester be alone with your >> kids because they were never convicted? >> >> There are different standards of proof for different functions. >> "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not necessary for "we don't want this >> person associated with our project/company/etc". No standard >> whatsoever is required for an individual deciding with whom to do >> business, who to trust to watch their kids or housesit, etc. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6790 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 01:58:47 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:58:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <133919730.2982206.1469091527061.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Georgi Guninski To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 1:44 AM Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? >Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives and move >to something allegedly better? Tor reminds me a bit of the Clipper chip, that brief attempt to implement a DES (56 bit key),key-escrowed chip for encrypted telephones that was tried in 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip If the USG had simply abandoned the plan for key escrow (giving the government the keys), the world wouldarguably have been better off  (compared to no encryption at all) for awhile if they'd implemented 56-bit DES.  But, that was distasteful, in large part because it would have been a shame to build a system that was less secure than it could have been with then existing technology.    However, I think the main impediment to implementing secure phones in that time frame (1993) was that it wouldhave been necessary to transmit data rates over the POTS (Plaint Old Telephone System) that weren't reallypractical:  Modems had gotten to about 14.4kbps by then, as I recall.   Tor, likewise, should not be less secure than it could be.  Multiple transfer hops (as opposed to the current one-hop),decoy (a given packet 'explodes' into multiple packets, maybe only one is 'real') transfers,  padded with adjustable filler traffic, etc, should have been added by now.  Why the delay?         Jim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 6699 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 09:00:28 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:00:28 -0700 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 07/21/2016 05:36 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Yes, it's USA bashing, and yes, we should (bash the USA that is)! > > At least US diplomats contemplate that, should this particular beheading > be incontrovertible, "it would certainly give us pause". > > ... > > Oh. > > ... > > Hmm. > > .. > > Well then. The upstanding grande ole U S of A, then, eh? > > "Moderate rebels" eh? > > > What a world the USA is creating. > > > US Considers a 'Pause' in Supplies for Group Beheading a Child > http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/07/us-considers-pause-in-supplies-for-group-beheading-sick-child.html > http://russia-insider.com/en/us-considers-pause-supplies-group-beheading-sick-boy/ri15750 > The "Rebels" are claiming 'psychological damage' caused by Assad's brutality. One comment I've seen is "They must be getting PR lessons from the DoD too." These freaks were on the US "White List". As recently as last year they were firing US-supplied (by an 'allied agency affiliated with the CIA') TOW missiles, per McClatchy. I'm going to pitch AGAIN for the fact all these people are about to be abandoned because the US and Russia have come to terms on a 'soft partition' of Syria, and pretty soon the US will be 'vetting' them and bringing them to 'Merica as 'allies who fought for us'. Hide your children and small pets (Goats too... I hear they like to schtup goats) Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 09:17:06 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:17:06 -0700 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <57908736.6060409@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <57908736.6060409@riseup.net> Message-ID: <07cf2c95-e2d0-7db9-a2f2-1d30188931de@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 01:26 AM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/20/2016 10:03 AM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> On 07/19/2016 02:31 AM, Mirimir wrote: >>> On 07/18/2016 03:39 PM, juan wrote: >>>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:45:19 -0600 Mirimir >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My current working hypothesis is that Tor is not >>>>> broken/breakable by design. >>>> keep sucking mirimir - your friend syverson isn't fully >>>> satisfied yet. >>> He's not my friend, Juan. He works for the fucking US Navy, after >>> all. >>> >>> But I do respect him. Think about it. He and his friends got US >>> military funding for a project that provided deniable and secure >>> communication, but only by making it public, for use by both >>> funders and their enemies. >>> >>> It might be that this vulnerability was crucial for selling it to >>> US military. But that's distinguishable from the argument that >>> it's intentionally designed to be vulnerable. There's also the >>> fact that nobody has come up with anything practical that's not >>> vulnerable to global adversaries. So it seems unlikely that he >>> had such a design that he put aside as unsellable. >>> >>> >> You're arguing logically with a brain-dead troll Mirimir... > I don't consider Juan to be a troll. I get that he doesn't have much > patience with those whom he sees as fools :) But being considered a > fool has never bothered me ;) It's my favorite Tarot card. > > From another thread: Juan: "Tor is criminal garbage created by the pentagon to serve their ends." Sorry he's a troll, and as I've claimed repeatedly he's simply fishing for info to catalog responses. His irrational extremism gives him away. He's looking for extremists to stalk by acting like one. Just because he can make some sort of argument to support a position doesn't mean he isn't a federal troll doing socio-psychlogical profiling. Most of his shorter posts could be written by an AI robot. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 16:19:35 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:19:35 +1000 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:17:52AM -0700, Spencer wrote: > >Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the > >business and consumer markets > > I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 and XP > will still be paying for support q: I never understood why folks upgraded from WfWG3.1 - 98 was -never- as stable, except when nothing was installed (including drivers). Not to mention those ghastly green hills... From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 16:33:06 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:33:06 +1000 Subject: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> <20160719230217.GZ16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160720233306.GL30324@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 07:12:29PM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:21 AM Александр wrote: > > 2016-07-20 19:47 GMT+03:00 Sean Lynch : > >> a system is unsuited to anything but mass construction for mass > >> destruction. > >> > >> The capitalist system is breaking down because the only thing it's good > >> for is war. > > > > Brilliant! > > There was a time when your edits would have bothered me, because what I > thought of as "capitalism" was just people freely exchanging with one > another. But that was just a libertarian attempt to coopt a term that was > originally meant pejoratively. I do believe in free exchange (though "free" > is obviously open to interpretation) and some form of private property > (again, open to interpretation). What I don't believe in is economies > enslaved to the state for the purpose of powering the war machine. Oh, I believe in them - they are very real and dangerous and need to be dismantled. I assume that's what you meant though :) BTW, USSR, as well as Russia, has proposed and wanted, a few times, to get going on reducing the nuclear missile stockpiles, at least once even proposing to reduce them to zero. It was always North America (BMIC I assume) that would not go there... From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 09:44:47 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 09:44:47 -0700 Subject: KRS-1 says 'Lets Box' about Institutional Slander [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2abbf844-9374-8b6f-72af-e0f93a1b58fc@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 09:30 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > >> "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest >> the coding world, > And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', whining > about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. > > Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you > from this list and subscribe you to > marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com > Respond to the post troll. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 10:17:10 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:17:10 -0700 Subject: Social Network Spying [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 07/21/2016 09:30 AM, juan wrote: Sonny... Trolling for a response to catalog my age. Older than dirt. Breadboard daze. Rr > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > >> "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest >> the coding world, > And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', whining > about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. > > Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you > from this list and subscribe you to > marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 09:47:12 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:47:12 -0400 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <5790f0a6.0ba3370a.87c8c.8222@mx.google.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> <5790f0a6.0ba3370a.87c8c.8222@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On July 21, 2016 11:59:37 AM EDT, juan wrote: >On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:56:56 -0400 >John wrote: > >> >> >> On July 21, 2016 5:21:04 AM EDT, juan wrote: >> >On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 >> >Sean Lynch wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 >> >> > Georgi Guninski wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives >> >> > > and move to something allegedly better? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor >> >are >> >> > resources that can't be used in good projects. >> >> > >> >> >> >> They are not your resources to redirect, >> > >> > No they are not mine. They belong to the people who the US >> > gov't/military robs. No taxes no tor. >> >> Well, phrasing I guess, but most of the relays just belong to >> volunteers. > > Apologies John, I really don't mean to pick on you > personally. > > I'd point out though that the organization exists thanks to > state funding. The whole thing would be rather different if all > the participants were volunteers. > > (are all high speed nodes also run by and paid for volunteers?) > Good question, i actually don't know the answer.. I expect the relationships get pretty incestuous at the higher levels. The top 10 "public" relays are all doing in the range of 50MB/s+.... You can browse the public relays here - https://atlas.torproject.org/ For comparison, my relay, when it's up, is capped at 200KB/s. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 08:59:37 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:59:37 -0300 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5790f0a6.0ba3370a.87c8c.8222@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:56:56 -0400 John wrote: > > > On July 21, 2016 5:21:04 AM EDT, juan wrote: > >On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 > >Sean Lynch wrote: > > > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: > >> > >> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 > >> > Georgi Guninski wrote: > >> > > >> > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives > >> > > and move to something allegedly better? > >> > > >> > > >> > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor > >are > >> > resources that can't be used in good projects. > >> > > >> > >> They are not your resources to redirect, > > > > No they are not mine. They belong to the people who the US > > gov't/military robs. No taxes no tor. > > Well, phrasing I guess, but most of the relays just belong to > volunteers. Apologies John, I really don't mean to pick on you personally. I'd point out though that the organization exists thanks to state funding. The whole thing would be rather different if all the participants were volunteers. (are all high speed nodes also run by and paid for volunteers?) > I run a relay most of the time, although I dont consider > it one of the top 5 or even top 10 services I maintain on that > particular box... It's kind of just a half ass interesting service to > fuck with occasionally. > > John > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 09:23:12 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 13:23:12 -0300 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <20160721115723.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <20160721115723.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5790f62d.562ac80a.c1e8a.8b76@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:57:23 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > Empires rise and fall. And get replaced by something worse. Ha. That's chemically pure optimism. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 09:30:38 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 13:30:38 -0300 Subject: KRS-1 says 'Lets Box' about Institutional Slander [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest > the coding world, And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', whining about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you from this list and subscribe you to marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 11:08:04 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:08:04 -0400 Subject: Bunnie, Green and EFF Go After DMCA Message-ID: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-lawsuit-takes-dmca-section-1201-research-and-technology-restrictions-violate https://www.eff.org/files/2016/07/21/1201_complaint.pdf Washington D.C.—The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) sued the U.S. government today on behalf of technology creators and researchers to overturn onerous provisions of copyright law that violate the First Amendment. EFF’s lawsuit, filed with co-counsel Brian Willen, Stephen Gikow, and Lauren Gallo White of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, challenges the anti-circumvention and anti-trafficking provisions of the 18-year-old Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). These provisions—contained in Section 1201 of the DMCA—make it unlawful for people to get around the software that restricts access to lawfully-purchased copyrighted material, such as films, songs, and the computer code that controls vehicles, devices, and appliances. This ban applies even where people want to make noninfringing fair uses of the materials they are accessing. From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jul 21 11:08:08 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:08:08 -0400 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <4214ab5a-2816-29de-8dbd-6d0b8992c960@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/21/2016 12:00 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> US Considers a 'Pause' in Supplies for Group Beheading a Child >> http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/07/us-considers-pause-in-supplies-f or-group-beheading-sick-child.html >> >> http://russia-insider.com/en/us-considers-pause-supplies-group-beheading - -sick-boy/ri15750 >> > > The "Rebels" are claiming 'psychological damage' caused by Assad's > brutality. > > One comment I've seen is "They must be getting PR lessons from the > DoD too." > > These freaks were on the US "White List". As recently as last year > they were firing US-supplied (by an 'allied agency affiliated with > the CIA') TOW missiles, per McClatchy. > > I'm going to pitch AGAIN for the fact all these people are about to > be abandoned because the US and Russia have come to terms on a > 'soft partition' of Syria, and pretty soon the US will be 'vetting' > them and bringing them to 'Merica as 'allies who fought for us'. vs. rebranding them and transferring them to the next front in the U.S. led "globalist" economic conquest of the world, as was done with the "Peace Loving People of Libya" who pushed the Libyan army 2/3 of the way across the country in a couple of weeks with U.S. close air support and tactical direction. The more "portable" elements of that mercenary force were shifted to the Iraq/Syria border, both to get them out of the way of pacification operations in Libya and to further the National Interest through murder and terrorism in States that "need to fail" before they can be properly looted. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkQ+IAAoJEECU6c5Xzmuq/GUH/2MKJKm4PCMkvW29t3bgha1A nJRWayE35b69GXmTOsa9Wa/kYKsvBCVNRNF0UnrSYyRlXQPyTRWaS7Rr1y6EsJrM gXJz7oCNhaD1Xg56IYTwClGuJLm7d6hdLIFWPBxKzCpl9Ntp4o0GT3NvGpmfB33b jvep8mjT01H3lNobmTUZI7X++Rwcjaph39mQ+0dBWPvuezdbH0uqlegioUMagGq+ QkbGZUJNzIf2l9zbJMOq9DTKlBZd0pAsYW7iDyu8na6lWj1FcZl3LtUTlKbrxXma DSq4uUYc5VRLvUPqYNeP9rFKx7iqD+6mhWe5xpEvhamdmh1/9jvTPTXjm9Fr4fY= =HIAZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 11:11:48 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:11:48 -0400 Subject: Open Phones Message-ID: "Open"... being relative, yet interesting... https://neo900.org/ Are you tired of all those closed mobile platforms? Do you want to truly own a device that has the ability to do whatever you want, just like your PC? The Neo900 project aims to provide a Fremantle (Maemo™ 5) compatible successor to the N900, with a faster CPU, more RAM and an LTE modem. This is all based on a free, mature and stable platform - the GTA04. We'll provide complete, ready-to-use devices, as well as motherboard replacements for your current devices. Most importantly, the Neo900 is an open platform, carrying on in the tradition of the Openmoko project. Neo900 will support all operating systems available for GTA04 (QtMoko, SHR, Debian, Replicant, ...) and should serve as a great platform for porting systems like Maemo, Ubuntu or Firefox OS - or even for writing your own one! We bring the hardware, you choose the operating system. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 11:28:50 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:28:50 -0400 Subject: Police 3D Print Dead Man's Fingers To Unlock Phone Message-ID: http://fusion.net/story/327145/3d-print-dead-mans-fingers-to-unlock-his-phone/ Last month, law enforcement officers showed up at the lab of Anil Jain, a professor at Michigan State University. Jain wasn’t in trouble; the officers wanted his help. Jain is a computer science professor who works on biometric identifiers such as facial recognition programs, fingerprint scanners and tattoo matching; he wants to make them as difficult to hack as possible. But the police were interested in the opposite of this: they wanted his help to unlock a dead man’s phone. Jain and his PhD student Sunpreet Arora couldn’t share details of the case with me, since it’s an ongoing investigation, but the gist is this: a man was murdered, and the police think there might be clues to who murdered him stored in his phone. But they can’t get access to the phone without his fingerprint or passcode. So instead of asking the company that made the phone to grant them access, they’re going another route: having the Jain lab create a 3D printed replica of the victim’s fingers. With them, they hope to unlock the phone. ... And Jain said he was happy to help when they got in touch: “We do it for the fun.” Just like telecoms, government "asks", university gives, for teh lols. From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 21 04:57:23 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 14:57:23 +0300 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <20160721115723.GA690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:29:10AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote: > My first draft was an explicit Microsoft death sentence, I worked > backward from there to create generic, vendor agnostic conditions that > would assure the same result. > I will drink to m$'s death. But not sure if currently it is good for non-sheeple. It is known that m$ are lamers and their ``code'' is complete mess. My enemies better be pussies than lions. As an aside, the pokeman game mania doesn't appear to work on windoze shit AFAICT, hurting their phone sales (if any). Empires rise and fall. And get replaced by something worse. From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 12:06:49 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:06:49 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAJRcRZPfwQ Miami Police Shoot Unarmed Black Man Caring For Autistic Patient - Charles Kinsey because, officer says, "I don't know why". From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 12:40:13 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:40:13 -0400 Subject: SilkRoad Server Status Message-ID: On 7/21/16, John wrote: > But they did find his "hidden" server and get it cloned before all of this When this last came up I don't recall it being clear beyond speculation how they found it. Are there now links to any investigative journalist who has since said how this was done, and backed up their work with case docs / official statements? From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 22:58:35 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:58:35 +1000 Subject: Call for input to President's Commission on Enhancing Cybersecurity In-Reply-To: References: <9e171562185b19e3a2d7cf592fa62db3.webmail@localhost> <97016ae9-da84-76be-9f67-ae5e724a7912@pilobilus.net> <578ef362.d767370a.76b3a.1b42@mx.google.com> <12ed06c9-df31-2f76-82cb-b93938f2a69c@pilobilus.net> <4de3a61f1ef3e89187b38248afc81aa0@openmailbox.org> <20160720231935.GK30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160721055835.GN30324@x220-a02> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 08:57:52PM -0400, John wrote: > On July 20, 2016 7:19:35 PM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:17:52AM -0700, Spencer wrote: > >> >Microsoft would lose a large part of its market share in the > >> >business and consumer markets > >> > >> I am confident that even after the collapse, businesses running 98 > >and XP > >> will still be paying for support q: > > > >I never understood why folks upgraded from WfWG3.1 - 98 was -never- as > >stable, except when nothing was installed (including drivers). Not to > >mention those ghastly green hills... Actually, it was WfWG 3.11, to be precise. I only had Windows 3.1, and lusted after the full windows for worgroups edition... > I never understood why anyone would run Windows -at all-. Linux and > *BSD have both been totally usable for 20+ years now... I did not know about Linux back then - I had actually heard about gcc and tried to download it on an old loaner PC running DOS that I had at the time, but I was getting only 1200baud! After 12 hours, reading enough to realise I'd be doing a lot of swapping just to use it, I figured I would wait until after upgrading to one of the new beaut 24/32kbps spangled modems and a better PC. A few years later someone I was working with brought in a slackware full CD set, and I was pleasantly amazed. Memory is not the best so there are probably other events in between. From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 21 09:20:32 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:20:32 +0000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <5790f0a6.0ba3370a.87c8c.8222@mx.google.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> <57909340.10a9370a.e8cdb.3e3c@mx.google.com> <5790f0a6.0ba3370a.87c8c.8222@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:05 AM juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 06:56:56 -0400 > John wrote: > > > > > > > On July 21, 2016 5:21:04 AM EDT, juan wrote: > > >On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 16:51:49 +0000 > > >Sean Lynch wrote: > > > > > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 2:59 PM juan wrote: > > >> > > >> > On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:44:16 +0300 > > >> > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives > > >> > > and move to something allegedly better? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > We need to get rid of tor first. Resources wasted on tor > > >are > > >> > resources that can't be used in good projects. > > >> > > > >> > > >> They are not your resources to redirect, > > > > > > No they are not mine. They belong to the people who the US > > > gov't/military robs. No taxes no tor. > > > > Well, phrasing I guess, but most of the relays just belong to > > volunteers. > > Apologies John, I really don't mean to pick on you > personally. > > I'd point out though that the organization exists thanks to > state funding. The whole thing would be rather different if all > the participants were volunteers. > > (are all high speed nodes also run by and paid for volunteers?) > Whatever I may think of your other beliefs about the organization, the funding model is definitely a problem. Same goes for Mozilla taking money from Google, MS, eBay, etc. Organizations building important infrastructure need to be independent. > > > I run a relay most of the time, although I dont consider > > it one of the top 5 or even top 10 services I maintain on that > > particular box... It's kind of just a half ass interesting service to > > fuck with occasionally. > > > > John > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3030 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 13:26:30 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:26:30 -0400 Subject: SilkRoad Server Status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56D7F7E9-CF5C-4728-B34D-854CAD17420C@synfin.org> On July 21, 2016 3:40:13 PM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >On 7/21/16, John wrote: >> But they did find his "hidden" server and get it cloned before all of >this > >When this last came up I don't recall it being clear beyond >speculation how they found it. Are there now links to any >investigative journalist who has since said how this was done, >and backed up their work with case docs / official statements? Not to my knowledge, but I haven't searched around lately. The initial FBI claim, as I recall, was that the server had a captcha that was leaking the real IP, so no tor hack was needed. But I think that may have been bullshit. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 21 09:33:10 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:33:10 +0000 Subject: An important text for understanding the project of the Empire of Chaos In-Reply-To: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716011450.GN16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 6:27 PM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > “Our real enemy is our greatest ally. The ultimate proof” [by Maurizio > Blondet] ~ An important short text to understand the project of the > Empire of Chaos > https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/enemy-ally-blondet/ > > Here's a small version of linked video (1GiB otherwise): > youtube-dl -f 249+242 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeLu_yyz3tc Thanks for the post. The idea that there "is no Europe" as far as the US is concerned got me thinking: what does the USG think about Brexit? Despite being an "ameriCunt" I actually had no idea. WSJ seems to think it will be bad for the US: http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-expected-to-rattle-u-s-economy-shake-its-influence-1466741275. Without the UK in the EU, perhaps the EU (i.e. Germany) will become friendlier to Russia? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1503 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 20 23:42:43 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:42:43 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: References: <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160721064243.GP30324@x220-a02> I think we need a mandatory reading list - topics, and mandatory reading on each topic, to consider oneself "informed" for a debate (and I say this as someone who has too often jammed foot in mouth, and been not informed on topics I thought I was, and presumably still fall FAR short on!) - anyone up for starting a gitified recommended reading list?: ** innocent until proven guilty vs lynch mobs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_witch_trials Of Witch Trials and Inquisitions http://grailmaiden.crazedfanboy.com/brans/inquis1.html Salem Witch Trials vs. the Spanish Inquisition - StarDestroyer.Net BBS https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=5473 A Brief History Of The Salem Witch Trials - Free Republic http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1916888/posts The Malleus Maleficarum http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal12.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence Kenja Theatre Documentary - Guilty Until Proven Innocent - Kenja ... http://www.guilty-until-proven-innocent.com/ Justice: Which countries treat suspects as guilty until proven innocent? https://www.quora.com/Justice-Which-countries-treat-suspects-as-guilty-until-proven-innocent It's bad everywhere, including here in Australia, from "crimes" where there are no victims (as in most of "the west") to instutitionalization of the principle of guilty until you prove your damn innocence. Australia is a classic example of a messed up country - this stuff destoys familes, lives, and IS institutionalized in our country: Hazem El Masri case shows Australia has a problem with innocent until proven guilty http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hazem-el-masri-case-shows-australia-has-a-problem-with-innocent-until-proven-guilty-20160315-gnjf4r.html " The principle of treating someone as innocent until they are proven guilty no longer exists. George Williams March 15 2016 George Williams 'Trouble just happens to find you': Hazem El Masri opens up http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/trouble-just-happens-to-find-you-hazem-el-masri-opens-up-about-the-toughest-time-in-his-life-20160314-gnicqt.html Australia has a problem with the presumption of innocence. It is being displaced by a rush to judgment. The reasons for this are understandable, but problematic. People want to believe that the perpetrator of a violent act has been found and arrested. They want to see someone punished for the crime. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hazem-el-masri-case-shows-australia-has-a-problem-with-innocent-until-proven-guilty-20160315-gnjf4r.html El Masri urges others to report violence Hazem El Masri has spoken to the press after charges against him were dropped. He encouraged those listening to report all instances of domestic violence. The likelihood of prejudgment is increased when the accused fits the profile of a person expected to be involved in illegal activity. Such stereotypes are reinforced by media reporting, and can be compounded by politicians willing to echo, rather than question, community preconceptions. NRL players are often subject to such assumptions of guilt. Former NRL star Hazem El Masri is an example. Despite an unblemished record as a player, and a long history of community service, many were ready to assume that allegations of domestic violence were well-founded. Hazem El Masri after appearing at Bankstown court where all charges against him were dropped. Photo: Nick Moir As El Masri has said ( http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/trouble-just-happens-to-find-you-hazem-el-masri-opens-up-about-the-toughest-time-in-his-life-20160314-gnicqt.html ): "A lot of people branded me guilty without even a presumption of innocence beforehand … Everyone wants to jump on that bandwagon". The result was "probably … the toughest thing in my whole life". The episode has come at a great personal cost, even though he has now been vindicated. The allegations against him have been shown to be false, and the charges withdrawn by the police ( http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/domestic-violence-charges-against-hazem-el-masri-to-be-dropped-20160310-gnfa97.html). His case raises questions about how well we respect the notion that a person must be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Known as "the golden thread" of the criminal law, the presumption means that the prosecution must prove the guilt of a person beyond reasonable doubt. This enables our society to be underpinned by justice and fair treatment. It acts as a crucial counterweight to the tendency to prejudge. The law must reflect this principle. Unfortunately, and increasingly, it does not. For many years, parliaments around Australia have enacted new statutes that erode the presumption of innocence. This in turn has contributed to a growing community culture in which it has become more acceptable to judge a person based upon media coverage and political commentary, rather than on the basis of evidence assessed by a judge or jury. This problem is now so widespread that it was the subject of a speech last month by the Chief Justice of NSW, Tom Bathurst. His survey of the NSW statute book threw up more than just a few instances here and there. The results were shocking in showing that breaches of the presumption have become a routine part of the legislative process. His conservative estimate was that there are at least 52 laws in the state that encroach upon the principle. It is being whittled away, piece by piece. One example is section 685 of the Local Government Act. It reverses the presumption of innocence by making that mere allegations, such as that someone has not received a council approval, is "sufficient proof of the matter" alleged. In the words of the chief justice, this "renders someone guilty of a criminal offence by a mere accusation". Another example is section 60E of the Water Management Act. It says that where water is taken without a licence, the occupier of the relevant premises is deemed guilty of an offence. Remarkably, the act goes on to state that this does not prevent proceedings being brought against "the person who actually committed the offence". Federal law provides many further examples. A long list is set out in the report on traditional rights and freedoms released earlier this month by the Australian Law Reform Commission. Some of the federal laws that breach the presumption are in expected areas such as terrorism and drug offences. Others relate to taxation, copyright and marriage. The commission's report reveals that infringements upon the principle are pervasive, and that many such laws are enacted without exciting media attention or political debate. It has simply become common to treat a person as being guilty unless they can show otherwise. The consequences are enormous. It means that people can be imprisoned where once they would have been let free. Bail laws have been tightened, and prisons filled to overcrowding, on the basis that accusations should more readily allow a person to be detained before trial. Despite this, politicians are still prone to recite the mantra that a person is innocent until proven guilty. At some point, such exhortations must ring hollow. As the long list of laws breaching the presumption of innocence grows, we are losing something fundamental and important from our system of justice. A long-standing principle protective of individuals and the truth is giving way to a regime based increasingly upon assumptions and premature judgment. In the light of this, the treatment of El Masri should come as no surprise. George Williams is the Anthony Mason Professor of Law at the University of New South Wales Twitter: @ProfGWilliams From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 21 10:00:41 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:00:41 +0000 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <20160716104926.GT16437@x220-a02> References: <20160716082849.GB748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160716104926.GT16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 4:03 AM Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 11:28:49AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > Hope this is not duplicate, the personal drivels were quite > > noisy. > > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/14/gov_says_new_home_sec_iwilli_have_powers_to_ban_endtoend_encryption/ > > > > > UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption > > > > Very sound, nice and democratic... > > So we have various countries banning end to end encryption - Russia, > possibly China?, now the UK ... what is stopping America from doing so? It's not entirely clear that it's even legal in the US to force backdoors/key escrow/etc. And even if it is, the USG seems to prefer more subtle means of control. Forcing key escrow or backdoors is something of a sledgehammer, and it gets a LOT of attention from civil libertarians. Also, I think Apple has had a hand in keeping it from happening. They have a lot of influence (read: money to pay for lobbyists and donate to political campaigns), and their whole business model is built on not having access to your data, to distinguish themselves from Google, which gets a large fraction of its income from serving targeted ads. Facebook and Google are starting to do end-to-end, but both companies seem a bit more hesitant about it. I suspect WhatsApp did it in part to hold Facebook to their word that they would never scan private messages for ad targeting purposes, and FB Messenger end-to-end is opt-in AIUI. But even if a ban on end-to-end might slightly benefit each company by giving them an excuse for retaining access, the USG seems to prefer key escrow, which doesn't benefit them at all while creating an additional cost. Personally I'm a bit conflicted over the whole thing. Pragmatically, not morally. A ban on end-to-end or even forced key escrow would push the more idealistic people to start working on and using better open source solutions. One should not trust any crypto that can be turned off silently with a remote flag flip. > > The Zimmerman (PGP) case? > > The CIA's need/use/funding for Tor, and their need for many "average > Joes" to use it also, for it to work? > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2871 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 17:11:10 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:11:10 -0700 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: <4214ab5a-2816-29de-8dbd-6d0b8992c960@pilobilus.net> References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> <4214ab5a-2816-29de-8dbd-6d0b8992c960@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <419ed414-c6b9-c1a2-c626-4ec1ff6e406d@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 11:08 AM, Steve Kinney wrote: > On 07/21/2016 12:00 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > >> US Considers a 'Pause' in Supplies for Group Beheading a Child > >> http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/07/us-considers-pause-in-supplies-f > or-group-beheading-sick-child.html > >> > >> > http://russia-insider.com/en/us-considers-pause-supplies-group-beheading > -sick-boy/ri15750 > >> > > > The "Rebels" are claiming 'psychological damage' caused by Assad's > > brutality. > > > One comment I've seen is "They must be getting PR lessons from the > > DoD too." > > > These freaks were on the US "White List". As recently as last year > > they were firing US-supplied (by an 'allied agency affiliated with > > the CIA') TOW missiles, per McClatchy. > > > I'm going to pitch AGAIN for the fact all these people are about to > > be abandoned because the US and Russia have come to terms on a > > 'soft partition' of Syria, and pretty soon the US will be 'vetting' > > them and bringing them to 'Merica as 'allies who fought for us'. > > vs. rebranding them and transferring them to the next front in the > U.S. led "globalist" economic conquest of the world, as was done with > the "Peace Loving People of Libya" who pushed the Libyan army 2/3 of > the way across the country in a couple of weeks with U.S. close air > support and tactical direction. The more "portable" elements of that > mercenary force were shifted to the Iraq/Syria border, both to get > them out of the way of pacification operations in Libya and to further > the National Interest through murder and terrorism in States that > "need to fail" before they can be properly looted. > > :o/ > I don't think they're as heterogeneous as all that and some, perhaps a large number. will be 'left behind' or absorbed into other societies. The Baathists they were ALLEGEDLY collaborating with, miraculously stripped of any socialist tendencies by US/Iraqi execution and 'other means', will eventually re-insert itself in the Iraqi government without a whimper from the US State Department, because they now resemble (again) the political tendencies the US would like to see in a submissive-to-the-West Iraq. My $0.02c Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 17:24:23 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:24:23 -0700 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: <20160721234727.GD23291@x220-a02> References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> <20160721234727.GD23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 07/21/2016 04:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:00:28AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> Hide your children and small pets (Goats too... I hear they like to >> schtup goats) > Too inclusive - according to the Koran, only female goats. > Since you brought the Koran into anything these goatfuckers do, you really need to cite that. With context... That's the ISLAMIC RULES. You have to put it in context to other places in the Koran. But the least you can do, as a not-a-Muslim, who doesn't know the rules, is quote the passage and give it's reference # or else I can simply assume you're a stupid bigot troll who found that at some shithole of a White Supremacist website on the darknet. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 18:04:06 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:04:06 -0700 Subject: Social Network Spying [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <57916ad9.c233ed0a.13e99.f8fd@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> <57916ad9.c233ed0a.13e99.f8fd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8661509a-e4d6-673d-c00c-697abe6a61c4@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 05:40 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:17:10 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> On 07/21/2016 09:30 AM, juan wrote: >> >> Sonny... >> >> Trolling for a response to catalog my age. > You already gave hints regarding your age more than once. So I > wouldn't need to catalog anything now. Not that I give a damn > about your age of course. Ofc you don't 'sonny' I've given enough info for the feds to know exactly who I am even without cyber-detective work. I don't give a fuck. I can smell pork at 100 yards, even before it's on the spit roasting. Rr >> Older than dirt. Breadboard daze. >> >> Rr >> >>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 >>> Rayzer wrote: >>> >>> >>>> "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who >>>> infest the coding world, >>> And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', >>> whining about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. >>> >>> Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you >>> from this list and subscribe you to >>> marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 15:08:10 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:08:10 -0400 Subject: Terasem on Geoethical Nanotechnology, Bio-Cryptoeconomy Message-ID: http://turingchurch.com/2016/07/21/video-11th-terasem-annual-workshop-on-geoethical-nanotechnology-second-life-july-20/ http://www.melanieswan.com/ http://www.blockchainstudies.org/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g2JZ_rAXwU Futurist Melanie Swan gave a talk titled “Philosophy of Biological Cell Repair informs Geoethical Nanotechnology". Melanie is the founder of the Institute for Blockchain Studies to examine the theoretical, philosophical and societal implications of blockchain technology, and the author of “Blockchain: Blueprint for a New Economy,” a book dedicated to advanced future applications of emerging blockchain computing. Melanie talked about nanotechnology and biological cell repair, important advances, and key philosophical aspects from a systems theory perspective. Other keywords: relational process thinking, complexity, Big Data, machine learning, posthuman and transhuman perspectives, nanobots, bio-cryptoeconomy. From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 18:23:07 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:23:07 -0700 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: <20160722010816.GH23291@x220-a02> References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> <20160721234727.GD23291@x220-a02> <20160722010816.GH23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <1f850171-9685-649b-df34-981c8c26f8b8@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 06:08 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 05:24:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> On 07/21/2016 04:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:00:28AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >>>> Hide your children and small pets (Goats too... I hear they like to >>>> schtup goats) >>> Too inclusive - according to the Koran, only female goats. >>> >> >> Since you brought the Koran into anything these goatfuckers do, you >> really need to cite that. With context... That's the ISLAMIC RULES. You >> have to put it in context to other places in the Koran. But the least >> you can do, as a not-a-Muslim, who doesn't know the rules, is quote the >> passage and give it's reference # or else I can simply assume you're a >> stupid bigot troll who found that at some shithole of a White >> Supremacist website on the darknet. > A quick google search: > https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Bestiality > > It's a large page so refer specifically a few particular quotes: > > There is also a certain saying which remains popular among the Arabs: > The Arabs have never taken quite so condemnatory an attitude towards the > practice, and indeed a popular Arab saying had it that "The pilgrimage > to Mecca is not complete without copulating with the camel." > > "Our companions have said that if the penile head has penetrated a > woman's anus, or a man's anus, or an animal's vagina or its anus then it > is necessary to wash whether the one being penetrated is alive or dead, > young or old, whether it was done intentionally or absentmindedly, > whether it was done willfully or forcefully." > > "If a woman inserts (in her vagina) an animal's penis she must wash, and > if she inserts a detached penis (thakaran maktu-an, lit. “a severed male > member”) there are two opinions; the most correct is that she must > wash." > > "If he had sexual intercourse with an animal, that will not make his > hajj void" > > "Sex with animals, dead people and masturbation, does not invalidate > one's fast provided ejaculation does not occur" > > "Sex with animals before the mission (Islam) was wide spread and many > narrations are narrated that it is halal but makrooh (disliked). And on > the compulsory precaution one should abandon this practice that may > cause self harm. And you must admit this to the owner of the sheep and > pay the owner." > > > " > Conclusion > > >From all of the above, we can certainly see that, unlike the West, > Islamic societies do not universally harbor negative attitudes towards > bestiality. Many Muslims seek out gratification or are indifferent to > this perversion, and in some cases it is even openly promoted and made > obligatory. > " > > Which Salafist nutjob's interpolation of the Koran does this belong to? I wat a quote of Koranic verse, as, lets say, a Pakistani reading it at the local grocery store counter waiting for a customer might read it. It shouldn't be too hard to find... (snigger) Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 15:41:49 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:41:49 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?What_If_There_Just_Aren=E2=80=99t_Enough_Jobs_to_Go_Around?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3F?= Message-ID: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/07/21/what-if-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12139627 http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Declining-Entrepreneurship-Labor-Mobility-and-Business-Dynamism-A-Demand-Side-Approach.pdf " The Roosevelt authors say a key factor is the concentration of resources in the hands of managers and owners of large corporations—think of CEOs who are compensated largely in shares of the firms they oversee. This ownership encourages them to skimp on labor costs to further enrich themselves, in their analysis. That shrinking demand for labor then helps depress job-market dynamism. It also contributes to broader secular stagnation, since wealthier people tend to save more of their incomes. " " 1) Eventually, and probably pretty soon (within 100years), that there obviously won't be jobs for everyone. Automation, progress(efficiency gains) and increasing population makes it inevitable. 2) That a general "goal" of society is do away with jobs. In any traditional sense. To me we've been approaching that ever since agriculture provided ability to support specialists (those who don't spend time gathering/producing the food/resources they need). Such as scientists, artists and soldiers. The jobs keep moving "up" the ladder (away from production). Previous low-rung jobs get reduced in number by efficiency or replaced via automation. The end of this trend is that all basic needs are met by 0 to a tiny fraction of a percent of human labor and rest are all free to pursue specialist activities such as science, art, and killing each other. " From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 18:51:09 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:51:09 -0700 Subject: KRS-1 says 'Lets Box' about Institutional Slander [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Reference for 'FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest the coding world,' Scumbucket moneymen who destroyed personal computing and turned it into entertainment toys-for-al et al "And now, with that said, here is the "#Police Are Slave Patrollers" Chrome extension on the Google Web Store: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/police-are-slave-patrolle/ngjggakcpjladadijhgmpemakehbimpm?hl=en … Enjoy. Read the comments from coders... https://twitter.com/maymaymx/status/756302869716926469 Rr On 07/21/2016 09:30 AM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > >> "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who infest >> the coding world, > And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', whining > about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. > > Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you > from this list and subscribe you to > marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 19:43:23 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:43:23 -0700 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases Message-ID: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> " I made a thing. It fixes Wikipedia et al." Overview: https://twitter.com/maymaymx/status/755958353273192448 https://github.com/meitar/de-euphemizer/#readme -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 607 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 02:48:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:48:20 +1000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <133919730.2982206.1469091527061.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <133919730.2982206.1469091527061.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160721094820.GQ30324@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:58:47AM +0000, jim bell wrote: > Tor, likewise, should not be less secure than it could be.  Multiple > transfer hops (as opposed to the current one-hop),decoy (a given > packet 'explodes' into multiple packets, maybe only one is 'real') > transfers,  padded with adjustable filler traffic, etc, should have > been added by now.  Why the delay? AIUI, there current stated reason is "we do those things we get funding for, and we've never been able to get funding for these particular things" - although the cynic in me can't help think that they are failing to properly apply the funding they get/ failing to make the 'proper' (perhaps semi-devious) funding applications. Of course the basic problems are: 1) GPAs/ USA monitors the whole world's internet 2) the CIA/USA/NSA is the only one currently funding Tor to any decent extent. We got a long way to go.. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 02:51:59 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:51:59 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160721095159.GR30324@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 06:00:45AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > I totally agree with you on that. I want Tor Project to put more > > disclaimers and warnings on their front page. > > Yeah. Just like used car dealers do =) > > I want the tor project to explain what tor is, exactly. To > explain what the state is, how it is funded. To explain > what the US state is, what it has done and what it does. > > And to finally explain that they, the tor project, work for > those motherfucking psychos known as the American State, helping > their imperial project while vomiting hypocritical nonsense > about 'human rights' and 'oppresed womyn' I think that particular wording would not be received by them - perhaps you can propose a paragraph, for each of these proposed facts, and we can suggest some politically correct wording, you can vet that, then we can submit to them a proposed "Caveats in the Eye of the Beholder" proposed tpo.o extra web page? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 15:54:38 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:54:38 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160721095159.GR30324@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> <20160721095159.GR30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579151ea.e928c80a.e0984.e9d9@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:51:59 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 06:00:45AM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > I totally agree with you on that. I want Tor Project to put more > > > disclaimers and warnings on their front page. > > > > Yeah. Just like used car dealers do =) > > > > I want the tor project to explain what tor is, exactly. To > > explain what the state is, how it is funded. To explain > > what the US state is, what it has done and what it does. > > > > And to finally explain that they, the tor project, work for > > those motherfucking psychos known as the American State, > > helping their imperial project while vomiting hypocritical nonsense > > about 'human rights' and 'oppresed womyn' > > I think that particular wording would not be received by them - > perhaps you can propose a paragraph, for each of these proposed > facts, and we can suggest some politically correct wording, That would be a funny excercise in satire, sarcasm and irony. Thanks for the offer, but I pass =P The more they show their true colors, the better. I wouldn't really want them to now start pretending that they are honest. > you can > vet that, then we can submit to them a proposed "Caveats in the Eye > of the Beholder" proposed tpo.o extra web page? From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 20:22:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:22:36 -0700 Subject: Power in the Age of the Feudal Internet - Bruce Schneier Message-ID: <109fe995-7c98-ea7d-7f3a-a68e26cffe99@riseup.net> I was probably wrong about my statement he doesn't have the technical capability to examine code like ioerror "He holds an MS degree in Computer Science from American University and a BS degree in Physics from the University of Rochester." Un-dated discussion paper from "MIND #6: Internet and Security": http://en.collaboratory.de/w/Power_in_the_Age_of_the_Feudal_Internet Power in the Age of the Feudal Internet Discussion Papers > Internet and Security > Proposition PROPOSITION Bruce Schneier, Cryptographer and Computer Security Specialist and Author of Liars and Outliers: Enabling the Trust Society Needs to Thrive We’re in the middle of an epic battle for power in cyberspace. On one side are the nimble, unorganized, distributed powers such as dissident groups, criminals, and hackers. On the other side are the traditional, organized, institutional powers such as governments and large multinational corporations. During its early days, the Internet gave coordination and efficiency to the powerless. It made them powerful, and seem unbeatable. But now the more traditional institutional powers are winning, and winning big. How these two fare long-term, and the fate of the majority of us that don’t fall into either group, is an open question – and one vitally important to the future of the Internet. In its early days, there was a lot of talk about the “natural laws of the Internet” and how it would empower the masses, upend traditional power blocks, and spread freedom throughout the world. The international nature of the Internet made a mockery of national laws. Anonymity was easy. Censorship was impossible. Police were clueless about cybercrime. And bigger changes were inevitable. Digital cash would undermine national sovereignty. Citizen journalism would undermine the media, corporate PR, and political parties. Easy copying would destroy the traditional movie and music industries. Web marketing would allow even the smallest companies to compete against corporate giants. It really would be a new world order. Some of this did come to pass. The entertainment industries have been transformed and are now more open to outsiders. Broadcast media has changed, and some of the most influential people in the media have come from the blogging world. There are new ways to run elections and organize politically. Facebook and Twitter really did help topple governments. But that was just one side of the Internet’s disruptive character. Today, the traditional corporate and government power is ascendant, and more powerful than ever. On the corporate side, power is consolidating around both vendor-managed user devices and large personal-data aggregators. It’s a result of two current trends in computing. First, the rise of cloud computing means that we no longer have control of our data. Our e-mail, photos, calendar, address book, messages, and documents are on servers belonging to Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and so on. And second, the rise of vendor-managed platforms means that we no longer have control of our computing devices. We’re increasingly accessing our data using iPhones, iPads, Android phones, Kindles, ChromeBooks, and so on. Even Windows 8 and Apple’s Mountain Lion are heading in the direction of less user control. I have previously called this model of computing feudal. Users pledge allegiance to more powerful companies who, in turn, promise to protect them from both sysadmin duties and security threats. It’s a metaphor that’s rich in history and in fiction, and a model that’s increasingly permeating computing today. Feudal security consolidates power in the hands of the few. These companies act in their own self-interest. They use their relationship with us to increase their profits, sometimes at our expense. They act arbitrarily. They make mistakes. They’re deliberately changing social norms. Medieval feudalism gave the lords vast powers over the landless peasants; we’re seeing the same thing on the Internet. It’s not all bad, of course. Medieval feudalism was a response to a dangerous world, and depended on hierarchical relationships with obligations in both directions. We – especially those of us who are not technical – like the convenience, redundancy, portability, automation, and shareability of vendor-managed devices. We like cloud backup. We like automatic updates. We like it that Facebook just works – from any device, anywhere. Government power is also increasing on the Internet. Long gone are the days of an Internet without borders, and governments are better able to use the four technologies of social control: surveillance, censorship, propaganda, and use control. There’s a growing “cyber sovereignty” movement that totalitarian governments are embracing to give them more control – a change the US opposes, because it has substantial control under the current system. And the cyberwar arms race is in full swing, further consolidating government power. In many cases, the interests of corporate and government power are aligning. Both corporations and governments want ubiquitous surveillance, and the NSA is using Google, Facebook, Verizon, and others to get access to data it couldn’t otherwise. The entertainment industry is looking to governments to enforce their antiquated business models. Commercial security equipment from companies like BlueCoat and Sophos is being used by oppressive governments to surveil and censor their citizens. The same facial recognition technology that Disney uses in its theme parks also identifies protesters in China and Occupy Wall Street activists in New York. What happened? How, in those early Internet years, did we get the future so wrong? The truth is that technology magnifies power in general, but the rates of adoption are different. The unorganized, the distributed, the marginal, the dissidents, the powerless, the criminal: they can make use of new technologies faster. And when those groups discovered the Internet, suddenly they had power. But when the already powerful big institutions finally figured out how to harness the Internet for their needs, they had more power to magnify. That’s the difference: the distributed were more nimble and were quicker to make use of their new power, while the institutional were slower but were able to use their power more effectively. So while the Syrian dissidents used Facebook to organize, the Syrian government used Facebook to identify dissidents. All isn’t lost for distributed power, though. For institutional power the Internet is a change in degree, but for distributed power it’s a change of kind. The Internet gives decentralized groups – for the first time – access to coordination. This can be incredibly empowering, as we saw in the SOPA/PIPA debate, Gezi, and Brazil. It can invert power dynamics, even in the presence of surveillance censorship and use control. There’s another more subtle trend, one I discuss in my book Liars and Outliers. If you think of security as an arms race between attackers and defenders, technological advances – firearms, fingerprint identification, lockpicks, the radio – give one side or the other a temporary advantage. But most of the time, a new technology benefits the attackers first. We saw this in the early days of the Internet. As soon as the Internet started being used for commerce, a new breed of cybercriminal emerged, immediately able to take advantage of the new technology. It took police a decade to catch up. And we saw it on social media, as political dissidents made quicker use of its organizational powers before totalitarian regimes were able to use it effectively as a surveillance and propaganda tool. The distributed are not hindered by bureaucracy, and sometimes not by laws or ethics. They can evolve faster. This delay is what I call a “security gap”. It’s greater when there’s more technology, and in times of rapid technological change. And since our world is one in which there’s more technology than ever before, and a greater rate of technological change than ever before, we should expect to see a greater security gap than ever before. In other words, there will be an increasing time period where the nimble distributed power can make use of new technologies before the slow institutional power can make better use of those technologies. It’s quick vs. strong. To return to medieval metaphors, you can think of a nimble distributed power – whether marginal, dissident, or criminal – as Robin Hood. And you can think of ponderous institutional power – both government and corporate – as the Sheriff of Nottingham. So who wins? Which type of power dominates in the coming decades? Right now, it looks like institutional power. Ubiquitous surveillance means that it’s easier for the government to round up dissidents than it is for the dissidents to anonymously organize. Data monitoring means it is easier for the Great Firewall of China to block data than it is to circumvent it. And as easy as it is to circumvent copy protection schemes, most users can’t do it. This is largely because leveraging power on the Internet requires technical expertise, and most distributed power groups don’t have that expertise. Those with sufficient technical ability will be able to stay ahead of institutional power. Whether it’s setting up your own e-mail server, effectively using encryption and anonymity tools, or breaking copy protection, there will always be technologies that are one step ahead of institutional power. This is why cybercrime is still pervasive, even as institutional power increases, and why organizations like Anonymous are still a social and political force. If technology continues to advance – and there’s no reason to believe it won’t – there will always be a security gap in which technically savvy Robin Hoods can operate. My main concern is for the rest of us: everyone in the middle. These are people who don’t have the technical ability to evade either the large governments and corporations that are controlling our Internet use, or the criminal and hacker groups who prey on us. These are the people who accept the default configuration options, arbitrary terms of service, NSA-installed back doors, and the occasional complete loss of their data. In the feudal world, these are the hapless peasants. And it’s even worse when the feudal lords – or any powers – fight each other. As anyone watching Game of Thrones knows, peasants get trampled when powers fight: when Facebook, Google, Apple, and Amazon fight it out in the market; when the US, EU, China, and Russia fight it out in geopolitics; or when it’s the US vs. the terrorists or China vs. its dissidents. The abuse will only get worse as technology continues to advance. In the battle between institutional power and distributed power, more technology means more damage. Cybercriminals can rob more people more quickly than criminals who have to physically visit everyone they rob. Digital pirates can make more copies of more things much more quickly than their analog forebears. And 3D printers mean that the data use restriction debate now involves guns, not movies. It’s the same problem as the “weapons of mass destruction” fear: terrorists with nuclear or biological weapons can do a lot more damage than terrorists with conventional explosives. It’s a numbers game. Very broadly, assume there’s a particular crime rate society is willing to tolerate. With historically inefficient criminals, we were willing to live with some percentage of criminals in our society. As technology makes each individual criminal more powerful, the percentage we can tolerate decreases. This is essentially the “weapons of mass destruction” debate: as the amount of damage each individual terrorist can do increases, we need to do increasingly more to prevent even a single terrorist success. The more destabilizing the technologies, the greater the rhetoric of fear, and the stronger institutional power will get. This means even more repressive security measures, even if the security gap means that such measures are increasingly ineffective. And it will squeeze the peasants in the middle even more. Without the protection of feudal lords, we’re subject to abuse by criminals and other feudal lords. Also, there are often no other options but to align with someone. But both these corporations and the government – and sometimes the two in cahoots – are using their power to their own advantage, trampling on our rights in the process. And without the technical savvy to become Robin Hoods ourselves, we have no recourse but to submit to whatever institutional power wants. So what happens as technology increases? Is a police state the only effective way to control distributed power and keep our society safe? Or do the fringe elements inevitably destroy society as technology increases their power? Probably neither doomsday scenario will come to pass, but figuring out a stable middle ground is hard. These questions are complicated, and dependent on future technological advances that we cannot predict. But they are primarily political questions, and any solutions will be political. In the short term, we need more transparency and oversight. The more we know of what institutional powers are doing, the more we can trust that they are not abusing their authority. We have long known this to be true in government, but we have increasingly ignored it in our fear of terrorism and other modern threats. This is also true for corporate power. Unfortunately, market dynamics will not necessarily force corporations to be transparent; we need laws to do that. The same is true for decentralized power; transparency is how we will differentiate political dissidents from criminal organizations. Oversight is also critically important, and is another long-understood mechanism for checking power. This can be a combination of things: courts that act as third-party advocates for the rule of law rather than rubber-stamp organizations, legislatures that understand the technologies and how they affect power balances, and vibrant public-sector press and watchdog groups that analyze and debate the actions of those wielding power. Transparency and oversight give us the confidence to trust institutional powers to fight the bad side of distributed power, while still allowing the good side to flourish. For if we are going to entrust our security to institutional powers, we need to know they will act in our interests and not abuse that power. Otherwise, democracy fails. In the longer term, we need to work to reduce power differences. The key to all of this is access to data. On the Internet, data is power. To the extent the powerless have access to it, they gain in power. To the extent that the already powerful have access to it, they further consolidate their power. As we look to reducing power imbalances, we have to look at data: data privacy for individuals, mandatory disclosure laws for corporations, and open government laws. Medieval feudalism evolved into a more balanced relationship in which lords had responsibilities as well as rights. Today’s Internet feudalism is both ad-hoc and one-sided. Those in power have a lot of rights, but increasingly few responsibilities or limits. We need to rebalance this relationship. In medieval Europe, the rise of the centralized state and the rule of law provided the stability that feudalism lacked. The Magna Carta first forced responsibilities on governments and put humans on the long road toward government by the people and for the people. In addition to re-reigning in government power, we need similar restrictions on corporate power: a new Magna Carta focused on the institutions that abuse power in the 21st century. Today’s Internet is a fortuitous accident: a combination of an initial lack of commercial interests, government benign neglect, military requirements for survivability and resilience, and computer engineers building open systems that worked simply and easily. Corporations have turned the Internet into an enormous revenue generator, and they’re not going to back down easily. Neither will governments, which have harnessed the Internet for political control. We’re at the beginning of some critical debates about the future of the Internet: the proper role of law enforcement, the character of ubiquitous surveillance, the collection and retention of our entire life’s history, how automatic algorithms should judge us, government control over the Internet, cyberwar rules of engagement, national sovereignty on the Internet, limitations on the power of corporations over our data, the ramifications of information consumerism, and so on. This won’t be an easy period for us as we try to work these issues out. Historically, no shift in power has ever been easy. Corporations have turned our personal data into an enormous revenue generator, and they’re not going to back down. Neither will governments, who have harnessed that same data for their own purposes. But we have a duty to tackle this problem. Data is the pollution problem of the information age. All computer processes produce it. It stays around. How we deal with it -- how we reuse and recycle it, who has access to it, how we dispose of it, and what laws regulate it -- is central to how the information age functions. And I believe that just as we look back at the early decades of the industrial age and wonder how society could ignore pollution in their rush to build an industrial world, our grandchildren will look back at us during these early decades of the information age and judge us on how we dealt with the rebalancing of power resulting from all this new data. I can’t tell you what the result will be. These are all complicated issues, and require meaningful debate, international cooperation, and innovative solutions. We need to decide on the proper balance between institutional and decentralized power, and how to build tools that amplify what is good in each while suppressing the bad. ------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 16:31:54 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:31:54 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57915aa7.91c3370a.c2532.eec6@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:54:34 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > >> > >> But frightening people from using Tor, > > > > > > I am not frightening anyone. I'm telling people the truth. > > Had people like Ulbricht assumed that tor was fucked he wouldn't be > > roting in jail right now, for instance. > > If he had done it without Tor, he would have been in jail a lot > sooner! > > It is likely that he pushed his luck too far using Tor. A lot of people in the silk road forum liked to brag about how clever they were and how good tor was... > > >> when there are no viable > >> alternatives, is also at best irresponsible. > > > > > > You know there are alternatives. You just were promoting > > vpns a couple of days ago on tor-talk (and I'm glad you > > were) > > Nested VPN chains are also vulnerable to global adversaries. Of course. I never suggested otherwise. The point is, they are vulnerable more or less like tor is, but at least they don't have some of tor's downsides. > It may be > that all low-latency anonymity systems that can scale to many users > are vulnerable to global adversaries. Yes, that sounds pretty likely. > > >> Even if Tor is more or > >> less useless against US military, it still protects users against > >> other adversaries. And arguably it even protects most users from US > >> military, if only because they're not important enough to focus on. > > > > > > Tell that to freedom hosting and all the rest. I can keep > > going in circles, you know, constantly refuting your propaganda... > > Yes, we do keep coming back to the same circular discussion, don't we? I think you know all the stuff I keep repeating as well as I do, or perhaps even better. You just don't want to draw any radical conclusion... > > YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT and I already explained > > why, twice. Or perhaps ten times. Tor is backdoored by design. GPAs > > have access to the backdoor. > > That's not really a backdoor. Maybe I'm not fully complying with the technical definition of backdoor, but regardless of the name we use, tor works as if it was 'backdoored' by the people who created it. They can deanonimize people. It's not as easy as calling an actual backdoor in the code, but it can be done anyway. > You argue that Tor is vulnerable to > global adversaries, and was designed that way. But it's not just Tor. True. But I never said "it's just tor" either... > It seems that all low-latency anonymity systems that scale to > numerous users are vulnerable to global adversaries. Yes. > > > > Cosmic bullshit. > > I'm just saying that you don't know for sure. You can of course ask for imposible levels of proof. Do you want videos of meetings between syverson and his pentagon bosses? > You may think that you > do. But there's just too much uncertainty. You said as much in another > thread. What I said is there's too much uncertainty for people who want to pretend that tor is 'reasonably' safe. THEY have the burden of proof and THEY can't prove their claims because there are lots of possible failure points. If you are selling something that is complex, and even you don't even fully understand, then that's too bad...for you! You can't get a free pass because *your* system is complex. PLUS, there's a fair amount of evidence illustrating failures. Ever heard about Ross Ulbricht? Freedom hosting? Agora? Sybil attacks? 2015 FBI attack? (I'm not even keeping up with the news) > The issue is what to do when there's uncertainty. We disagree. > Yeah well. > >>> The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US > >>> military has sabotaged the internet. > >> > >> Actually, they pretty much invented it ;) > > > > > > Oh yes. We lived in the stone age before the US miliary > > invented duct tape. > > Pretty much ;) At least, initial development of computers was mainly > driven by military. Ah yes. The more broken windows, the more economic development we get. > >> > >> I wonder if they have AIs yet. That would be amazing! > > > > > > Yes, kurzweil is an AI. He's as clever as google's spam > > filter. > > I was pointing to the difficulty of interpreting global intercepts. I don't think you need an 'AI'(whatever you imagine them to be) to count packets or match timing/patterns. > > > > Hm, I misread the part about evil? The US military uses tor > > for evil, there's nothing 'hypothetical' about that. Is that what > > you are saying? > > > > So the only hypothetical part would be tor actually > > working... > > Yes. I thought that was clear. Yes, my bad. > > Would a real anonimity network make it possible to actually > > cause substantial damage to the government? In that case it > > might be worthwhile to try it. Perhaps. > > More than damaged, I want to see governments gone. And you think the pentagon is funding a system that could cause even a bit of damage to them? > > > But would any government create something that can be used > > to destroy it? Obviously not, so your hypothetical is just > > diversion (in the 'military' sense). Sorry. > > Sure they would. Nuclear weapons, for example. So how are you going to destroy government using nuclear weapons? (which you don't have access to anyway) > Or biological warfare, > which is now pretty much doable at home. Well, chemical weapons are pretty much doable at home too and were not directly created by the government. They are a basic application of 19th century commercial chemistry. But all this is beside the point. > Or personal computers and the > Internet :) The internet is a tool for total domination. > > >> I'm just wanting to clarify your position. > > Thanks. > From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 03:34:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:34:31 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160721103431.GS30324@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 03:54:34AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > >> when there are no viable > >> alternatives, is also at best irresponsible. > > > > You know there are alternatives. You just were promoting > > vpns a couple of days ago on tor-talk (and I'm glad you were) > > Nested VPN chains are also vulnerable to global adversaries. It may be > that all low-latency anonymity systems that can scale to many users are > vulnerable to global adversaries. ... which are based on current traditional centralised physical network. Yes. Which is why, to get out from the GPAs, we must build a home to home, neighbour to neighbour, suburb to suburb, global physical network. > > YOU ARE MISAPPLYING THE ARGUMENT and I already explained why, > > twice. Or perhaps ten times. Tor is backdoored by design. GPAs > > have access to the backdoor. > > That's not really a backdoor. You argue that Tor is vulnerable to global > adversaries, and was designed that way. But it's not just Tor. It seems > that all low-latency anonymity systems that scale to numerous users are > vulnerable to global adversaries. ditto - need a new phy layer If you don't own it, you don't control it. It you don't control it, it WILL be used against you. > >>> The 'backdoor' in tor is simply the fact that the US > >>> military has sabotaged the internet. > >> > >> Actually, they pretty much invented it ;) > > > > Oh yes. We lived in the stone age before the US miliary > > invented duct tape. > > Pretty much ;) At least, initial development of computers was mainly > driven by military. ATI, bought by AMD, was originally registered as Alien Technologies Incorporated. They eventually officially changed their name to just ATI. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 03:43:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:43:33 +1000 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160721104333.GT30324@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 04:14:24AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/21/2016 03:00 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 01:54:45 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > >>>>> So are you arguing that well-designed backdoors are OK? Or are you > >>>>> just arguing that US military are dumb enough to think so. That > >>>>> they're so confident about their superior capabilities? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> The latter seems perfectly plausible to me. Groupthink. > >>> > >>> > >>> I don't think the US military are dumb. If you do, then you > >>> are not thinking as correctly as you should. > >> > >> They have done some pretty stupid things. > > > > For instance? I think 'stupid' in this context would mean > > "things that reduced their power and influence". I don't think > > the power of the US military, which is of course the heart of > > any state, is decreasing. Quite the contrary. So, I'd describe > > as rather clever in their little brown-children-murdering game. > > They did succeed in taking down the Soviet Union, by forcing it to > bankrupt itself and disappoint its population. You give too much credence to the USA - communism as practiced by Stalin's co-horts (different again from Stalinism the modern political ideology), is sort of like "democracy as practiced by the Western governments". Both were essentially fascist, certainly statist and socialist. And the massive internal inefficiencies, lack of motivators for those at the top to improve efficiencies of the society overall, and other problems, were a very large part of the problem - Bush and Clinton declaring behind closed doors "fuck it, we won, we will expand NATO all the way to Russia's borders" is mostly just ego on the part of certain North Americans. > But I think that they've > consistently fucked up in the Middle East. Ack. > Generally, they focus too much on short-term objectives, and set > themselves up for eventual failure. They count too much on brute > force. The crazies from the basement are currently running this USA hegemon - we call them neocons or neo conservatives since they are puppets of the USA BISMIC - revolving doors and all that, the turbo charging of sociopathy. In the words of Juan, they're psycopaths! Respecting no sovereignty, no international law, not the rule of law, not innocence until proven guilty, no mutual respect for other nations, no respect for the supreme/ultimate sovereignty of the people (any people - it's own North American humans or humans anywhere else on the planet). USA is one seriously psychopathic nation bullying the rest of the world at the moment and daily droning innumerable humans to death, again all around the world. Insanity incarnate. > > Look the US military blew up the WTC to have an excuse to > > impose a global 'cyber' police state. How's their little plan > > proceeding? > > Short term, it's doing OK. Long term, probably not so good. > > I suspect that the Chinese have pwned them hard. Let's hope China does not copy the USA's bullying ways when USA falls! Let's hope for the sake of the world, the the fall of the USA is a soft landing and not Hillary Psycopath Clinton's world war 3! From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 16:51:34 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:51:34 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57907609.d434c80a.a7051.2f21@mx.google.com> <57907FC5.70602@riseup.net> <57908e7d.0626c80a.3b650.326f@mx.google.com> <5790A080.3060508@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57915f44.ad25ed0a.c89a5.ef9e@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:14:24 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > > They did succeed in taking down the Soviet Union, by forcing it to > bankrupt itself and disappoint its population. I don't think the US military did that at all. The russians and their 'satellites' shot themselves in the foot. The soviet system had more central planning and top-down control than fascist western corporatism and so it was less efficient. It's obviously better to give a bit more 'freedom' to your subjects so that you can fleece them better. Then they will happily murder children to defend mcdonalds and coca-cola. And yes, things like jew-kristian religion do help a good deal. > But I think that > they've consistently fucked up in the Middle East. Do they get their budget cut because of their supposed failures? Nope. They just keep getting more money and more power. Total success! Countries get destroyed and 'rebuilt' by american firms. Success. > Generally, they > focus too much on short-term objectives, and set themselves up for > eventual failure. They count too much on brute force. Well, of course they are nothing but murderers. But succesful ones. I think calling them stupid would be misleading. They are competent in their narrow field. > > > Look the US military blew up the WTC to have an excuse to > > impose a global 'cyber' police state. How's their little > > plan proceeding? > > Short term, it's doing OK. Long term, probably not so good. Time will tell...Eventually all empires fall, I guess... > I suspect that the Chinese have pwned them hard. Military speaking? I don't know. Hints? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 17:27:04 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:27:04 -0300 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <20160721103431.GS30324@x220-a02> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> <20160721103431.GS30324@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57916797.464b370a.0b12.f146@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:34:31 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > Which is why, to get out from the GPAs, we must build a home to home, > neighbour to neighbour, suburb to suburb, global physical network. That certainly would be nice... > > If you don't own it, you don't control it. > It you don't control it, it WILL be used against you. Yes. Also in the current system users should be able to audit their ISPs. After all ISPs only exist to *serve* their customers. And 'their' hardware is actually PAID by the customers. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 17:40:58 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:40:58 -0300 Subject: Social Network Spying [was: Re: the most annoying thing about Juan] In-Reply-To: References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <0b7e4e8d-64b9-5af2-dcec-1bdef4509c77@riseup.net> <0e5ab5ab-1711-b42b-ef16-21d8ef8e0395@riseup.net> <222ab656-5c1c-0831-8ff1-28e1f37bca98@riseup.net> <5790f7eb.cd31c80a.b49bb.87af@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <57916ad9.c233ed0a.13e99.f8fd@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:17:10 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > On 07/21/2016 09:30 AM, juan wrote: > > Sonny... > > Trolling for a response to catalog my age. You already gave hints regarding your age more than once. So I wouldn't need to catalog anything now. Not that I give a damn about your age of course. > > Older than dirt. Breadboard daze. > > Rr > > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:49:38 -0700 > > Rayzer wrote: > > > > > >> "Solidarity". Something lacking among FEUDAL LIBERTARIANS who > >> infest the coding world, > > And here we have master rayzer, who is not a 'troll', > > whining about libertarian programmers in the cpunks mailing list. > > > > Sonny, ask some computer literate person to unsubscribe you > > from this list and subscribe you to > > marxist.fascists at tor.pentagon.com > > > > > > > > > > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 18:00:56 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:00:56 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:22:58 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/21/2016 03:19 AM, juan wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:49:44 -0600 > > Mirimir wrote: > > > > >>> If you expect help from the establishment you certainly > >>> are fucked. > >> > >> You work with what you have. > > > > That is absurd. If what you have is not fitted for the task > > at hand you are just wasting your time. > > OK, but here you are, using a GMail address, and presumably nothing to > substantively obscure your identity. It's a bit too late for me to start hiding my identity. And the US hasn't invaded argentina yet =P (though they just might =/ ) > Maybe you're not "wasting your > time", but you are for sure trusting your environment. And, I would > argue, you are limiting yourself to what you can say and do that won't > get you fucked up. Ah, you are talking about things one can personally do online? I was referring in general to tools used to achieve political ends. Like, I don't know, if the only 'official' recourse you have to change a political system is voting, then you better not waste time with it because you will get nowhere. Likewise, expecting an anonimity network provided by the government to be meaningfully useful against the government strikes me as naive at best. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 05:36:43 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:36:43 +1000 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" Message-ID: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> Yes, it's USA bashing, and yes, we should (bash the USA that is)! At least US diplomats contemplate that, should this particular beheading be incontrovertible, "it would certainly give us pause". ... Oh. ... Hmm. .. Well then. The upstanding grande ole U S of A, then, eh? "Moderate rebels" eh? What a world the USA is creating. US Considers a 'Pause' in Supplies for Group Beheading a Child http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/07/us-considers-pause-in-supplies-for-group-beheading-sick-child.html http://russia-insider.com/en/us-considers-pause-supplies-group-beheading-sick-boy/ri15750 From mirimir at riseup.net Thu Jul 21 21:43:05 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:43:05 -0600 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57915aa7.91c3370a.c2532.eec6@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> <57915aa7.91c3370a.c2532.eec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5791A459.7070000@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 05:31 PM, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 03:54:34 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: >> It is likely that he pushed his luck too far using Tor. > > > A lot of people in the silk road forum liked to brag about how > clever they were and how good tor was... Say what you will about Tor, a global drug marketplace is very cool :) But yes, assumptions are dangerous. >>> Tell that to freedom hosting and all the rest. I can keep >>> going in circles, you know, constantly refuting your propaganda... >> >> Yes, we do keep coming back to the same circular discussion, don't we? > > > I think you know all the stuff I keep repeating as well as I > do, or perhaps even better. You just don't want to draw any > radical conclusion... Yes, that about sums it up. Because that radical conclusion would leave me nothing to work with. Indeed, we could have the same argument about the machine that I'm typing this message on. The CPU is a total black box. It could be pwned as badly as Tor. Firmware could have been pwned. So I work with what I have, being as careful as I know how. >>> Would a real anonimity network make it possible to actually >>> cause substantial damage to the government? In that case it >>> might be worthwhile to try it. Perhaps. >> >> More than damaged, I want to see governments gone. > > And you think the pentagon is funding a system that could cause > even a bit of damage to them? It's possible. >>> But would any government create something that can be used >>> to destroy it? Obviously not, so your hypothetical is just >>> diversion (in the 'military' sense). Sorry. >> >> Sure they would. Nuclear weapons, for example. > > So how are you going to destroy government using nuclear > weapons? (which you don't have access to anyway) I don't. But lots of other folks do. Russia could still destroy the US, and perhaps end civilization as we know it. >> Or personal computers and the >> Internet :) > > The internet is a tool for total domination. Well, you do seem willing to use the Internet ;) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 19:36:17 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:36:17 -0300 Subject: SilkRoad Server Status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579185e1.10a9370a.e8cdb.1efe@mx.google.com> On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:40:13 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > On 7/21/16, John wrote: > > But they did find his "hidden" server and get it cloned before all > > of this > > When this last came up I don't recall it being clear beyond > speculation how they found it. Are there now links to any > investigative journalist who has since said how this was done, > and backed up their work with case docs / official statements? https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140203/11143926078/parallel-construction-revealed-how-dea-is-trained-to-launder-classified-surveillance-info.shtml "organizations would share info with the DEA and other law enforcement agencies, but then tell them to reconstruct the evidence via a process called "parallel construction," so that the surveillance would not then be discussed in court. " Do I need to connect the dots? From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 21 21:25:30 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 00:25:30 -0400 Subject: Power in the Age of the Feudal Internet - Bruce Schneier In-Reply-To: <109fe995-7c98-ea7d-7f3a-a68e26cffe99@riseup.net> References: <109fe995-7c98-ea7d-7f3a-a68e26cffe99@riseup.net> Message-ID: On July 21, 2016 11:22:36 PM EDT, Rayzer wrote: >I was probably wrong about my statement he doesn't have the technical >capability to examine code like ioerror > Actually I believe he wrote a book on coding cryptography, example code in C. He can code. https://www.schneier.com/books/applied_cryptography/ Hes also written at least a few open source tools, e.g. passwordsafe. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From seanl at literati.org Thu Jul 21 18:47:50 2016 From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 01:47:50 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] The "Sharing Economy" Is the Problem In-Reply-To: <566C6B9A.20105@gmail.com> References: <20151209174840.GA16643@vortex.com> <5668A7B4.2010705@riseup.net> <566C6B9A.20105@gmail.com> Message-ID: People renting out entire houses as investments on Airbnb are just a reflection of the fact that the hotel business is a racket. Don't blame Airbnb; they're just the messenger. Likewise Uber and taxis. Both organizations take power away from the rent-seekers and by proxy the government. Yes they are still centralized and self-interested, but the real bad guys here are the corrupt city and state governments that are in bed with the hoteliers and taxi companies. Get rid of the special privileges (regulatory barriers etc) and Uber and Airbnb's profit margins would be much lower. On Sat, Dec 12, 2015, 10:54 Tomas Overdrive Petru wrote: > On 09.12.15 23:14, Rayzer wrote: > > The problem with the "Sharing Economy" is that it only shares with other > > people involved in that 'economy' and excludes others. That's feudal, > > and Feudalist sharing is NOT sharing for the benefit of a whole > > community. It's sharing for the benefit of a few. > Something feels here like sand in cogwheel... so what? So we have > invented we can share our resources, which is positive from social side > same as from ecological. > Now we should decide if to kill whole idea for everybody, or just create > new market, where you can fight to win? > Where is bonus of NOT to allow sharing of cars as business? > I have been in some countries where no such thing as public transport > does really exists and this model is there on voluntary and kapitalistic > basic for years and why not. > In our country to get cab, like one from that approved companies is > usually ... stupid. They will rob you, they will dictate their rules, > what you can and what you can't. It is closed market without any > progress for years. > I do expect argument, that legal taxi at least pay taxes and some social > security and all that. You can be sure, they know town or city and they > know how to drive. > Hmm. OK, one correct thing is, that they are doing special driving > license to be allowed to drive cab. That is all. > Price is 40% higher than Uber, service is usually much worse and even > Prague as city is not able to get a rid of this taxi mafia. Czech people > do not need taxi, because we can easily get a bus, tram, trolleybus, > train ... wherever we want, so they are just robbing tourists. Uber and > simillar services can just easily kill this sh*t by just creating free > market possibility. > > Regards, > -- Over > > > -- > “Borders I have never seen one. But I have heard they exist in the minds > of some people.” > ― Thor Heyerdahl > > > Telegram ................... @over23 > facebook ................... facebook.com/overdrive23 > Hackerspace project ........ https://labka.cz > twitter .................... https://twitter.com/#!/over2393 > GnuPG key FingerPrint ...... 08EA E4DC EF85 0F02 9267 5B48 2E58 6902 C5F8 > 794C > Public key ................. http://overdrive.dronezone.eu/overdrive.txt > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3634 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jul 21 23:17:44 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 02:17:44 -0400 Subject: Power in the Age of the Feudal Internet - Bruce Schneier In-Reply-To: References: <109fe995-7c98-ea7d-7f3a-a68e26cffe99@riseup.net> Message-ID: <755a5a2d-c640-57fa-d080-966ec40b92d0@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/22/2016 12:25 AM, John wrote: > > > On July 21, 2016 11:22:36 PM EDT, Rayzer > wrote: >> I was probably wrong about my statement he doesn't have the >> technical capability to examine code like ioerror >> > > Actually I believe he wrote a book on coding cryptography, example > code in C. He can code. > > https://www.schneier.com/books/applied_cryptography/ > > Hes also written at least a few open source tools, e.g. > passwordsafe. And AES finalist Twofish. (What we now call "AES" is actually Rijndael, see http://csrc.nist.gov/archive/aes/index2.html ) In the essay above, I did note a thread of pro-Establishment political correctness running all through the rhetoric. Does he really buy it, is he just protecting his tenure in the Corporate Suits hierarchy, or is he tying a pork chop around the necks of a few inconvenient truths in hope that policymakers will at least play with them? Only Bruce Schneier knows the real Bruce Schneier Facts. If I had to guess, I would say all three. One thing we do know: You won't catch him consorting with the peasants. :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkbqHAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqkCsIALIPR5IytNG208V+7F363HVn 9LAc0qjC6m5NCItzK3tmARrZVMlYfHuCX4kURn3abIyAWuv8zu+NINKVJNQvE1HD mMdN/I4O+3Ts/E4hkNxecsoni40sFLTGM2pDprvI9vvYJ8rkAldiCreBVIOaa2Ei NAIDMz/JZZ+dFjB1R5yuDwqVKR/Kr7FZ/kIFGOoSuTzPm70AjuMVuiG42qqerCMn Y4Mmt4gIm5A0KQepL8G/tEKhQjG3nKBno6Ty6TAEHb+jh/sBi3dafcf/+5RJiBkB JS4iT3zwiFbq6GvDHCY9qfj8BYIGBhFCf88G4EEa5h02EudNRMi05ZLfIi5/KFw= =gt0+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 22:20:08 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 02:20:08 -0300 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <2047779980.734766.1469158175227.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> <2047779980.734766.1469158175227.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5791ac48.1923ed0a.28d9a.d854@mx.google.com> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 03:29:35 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > >   >  It's a bit too late for me to start hiding my identity. >    > And the US hasn't invaded argentina yet =P (though they just >   >  might =/ ) > "Where shall we go, Max?" > "Argentina?" Ahaha! Good catch! I missed that one. Actually, I don't remember much of the movie. Torrent... > [Yellow Submarine 1968]Yellow Submarine (film) - Wikipedia, the free > encyclopedia Jim Bell > > > From admin at pilobilus.net Thu Jul 21 23:21:50 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 02:21:50 -0400 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/21/2016 11:21 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 07:43:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> " I made a thing. It fixes Wikipedia et al." >> >> Overview: https://twitter.com/maymaymx/status/755958353273192448 >> >> https://github.com/meitar/de-euphemizer/#readme > > I can think of a few Juan would add to that list - some might > consider them nsfw, others might consider them facts :) Don't know or care about some chrome extension, but I do know this: The facts are nsfw. That's an axiom of the "workplace" paradigm. Has Scott Adams taught us NOTHING? :o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkbt+AAoJEECU6c5XzmuqrQoH/2vrxwpge12jvtbDCd1pNc8N wEYfeQX+HlrTe/kuNII8Ek219u7novDRh5JzNHWXpM9TcJEKhnEiUoXPtDXFrRFL ka70PEKWKtyZZ6+bVPi2YFiGOv4ZM7yLglfTT77CypjvNixg0At+8ypWVIM6NQIG FN2d5e0W0egGP92tWSHN0FJKin1pKJvtWQxOzAV4iTu0u/tk08pCwM03rRR9iWIv j0ryXhhwqnO8HgfxVxSf9ozsd04PuvYi1jx+C/39ZhospLqi9CGHUraDJppHZR2Z ioJITkDOBBS65dLhf1WLHTjyALMXqAKC4r8NWlJ7WaCzWQvxruj7w51vnIU4cUc= =sUVP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 21 20:29:35 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 03:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> References: <578C7C9B.3070602@riseup.net> <20160718095523.GB30751@ctrlc.hu> <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2047779980.734766.1469158175227.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: juan On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:22:58 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/21/2016 03:19 AM, juan wrote:   >  It's a bit too late for me to start hiding my identity.    > And the US hasn't invaded argentina yet =P (though they just   >  might =/ ) "Where shall we go, Max?" "Argentina?" [Yellow Submarine 1968]Yellow Submarine (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia              Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 02:16:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 05:16:44 -0400 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents Message-ID: https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/ https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/877591/download https://torrentfreak.com/images/KAT-complaint.pdf http://kickass.to/IPRC_Seized_2016_kat.jpg http://kickasstorrents.to/ http://kickasstorrents.website/ https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-mirrors-and-imposters-spring-into-action-160722/ https://torrentfreak.com/can-kickasstorrents-make-a-comeback-160721/ https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-hits-new-high-with-unrivaled-community-160619/ https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-ups-user-privacy-with-two-factor-authentication-160410/ With the current game becoming a losing or at least tiresome battle, it's no wonder filesharers are slowly coming over to darknets and raising their game. Once they jettison clearnet ops entirely, they might prove quite resistant indeed. From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 22 06:51:00 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 06:51:00 -0700 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <22e307fd-5fbe-ae38-7478-0d4dfdfbf6af@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 11:21 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > > On 07/21/2016 11:21 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 07:43:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> " I made a thing. It fixes Wikipedia et al." > >> > >> Overview: https://twitter.com/maymaymx/status/755958353273192448 > >> > >> https://github.com/meitar/de-euphemizer/#readme > > > I can think of a few Juan would add to that list - some might > > consider them nsfw, others might consider them facts :) > > Don't know or care about some chrome extension, but I do know this: > The facts are nsfw. That's an axiom of the "workplace" paradigm. > > Has Scott Adams taught us NOTHING? > > :o) > > If you look at the response on another thread to my calling the corporate coding world (actually any corp will do) 'feudal', no. Rr Ps. I consider that extension, even tho I don't use Chrome, an Effective Use of Technology for Social Change. The possibilities are limitless! Marketable as "The de-programming tool on your browser bar" For instance, Georgi, on another thread "Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names?" Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1998 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 22 06:58:04 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 06:58:04 -0700 Subject: Power in the Age of the Feudal Internet - Bruce Schneier In-Reply-To: <755a5a2d-c640-57fa-d080-966ec40b92d0@pilobilus.net> References: <109fe995-7c98-ea7d-7f3a-a68e26cffe99@riseup.net> <755a5a2d-c640-57fa-d080-966ec40b92d0@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <8ddfefda-05cc-f71e-7826-8c368daddbbf@riseup.net> On 07/21/2016 11:17 PM, Steve Kinney wrote: > > > On 07/22/2016 12:25 AM, John wrote: > > > > On July 21, 2016 11:22:36 PM EDT, Rayzer > > wrote: > >> I was probably wrong about my statement he doesn't have the > >> technical capability to examine code like ioerror > >> > > > Actually I believe he wrote a book on coding cryptography, example > > code in C. He can code. > > > https://www.schneier.com/books/applied_cryptography/ > > > Hes also written at least a few open source tools, e.g. > > passwordsafe. > > And AES finalist Twofish. (What we now call "AES" is actually > Rijndael, see http://csrc.nist.gov/archive/aes/index2.html ) > > In the essay above, I did note a thread of pro-Establishment political > correctness running all through the rhetoric. Does he really buy it, > is he just protecting his tenure in the Corporate Suits hierarchy, or > is he tying a pork chop around the necks of a few inconvenient truths > in hope that policymakers will at least play with them? > > Only Bruce Schneier knows the real Bruce Schneier Facts. If I had to > guess, I would say all three. One thing we do know: You won't catch > him consorting with the peasants. > > :o) > > > The essay illustrates he understands how political and social power affects technology and science. That knowledge can cut both ways. Here's a little bit of humor slander about him... "I think he's Grey." (snigger) Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 22 09:27:24 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:27:24 -0700 Subject: Who needs socially conscious hackers anyway? Message-ID: McDonald's 'Make Burger History' Site Hijacked With Offensive Burger Ideas "Just come in to a participating 'Create Your Taste' McDonald's and order your Creation at the self ordering kiosk," McDonald's promised. But its failure to consider what pranksters might dream up online has left the company red-faced, with the website overrun by racist, homophobic and otherwise offensive suggestions... ...The burger concepts ranged from the mild, such as "Bag of Lettuce" (literally just a pile of lettuce leaves) and "The Carbonator" (seven burger buns, no filling), to X-rated, including "Girth" (a stack of seven undressed burger patties) and "Ron's Creamy Surprise" (a pile of mayonnaise, best left unexplained). But many went totally tasteless, creating burgers with names like "Mosque at Ground-Zero," "Rektal Prolapse" and "Toddler Body Bag," some of which ended up on the website's front page before it was shut down entirely overnight. https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/07/21/2233238/mcdonalds-make-burger-history-site-hijacked-with-offensive-burger-ideas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1701 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Thu Jul 21 23:45:17 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:45:17 +0300 Subject: Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? Message-ID: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? Euphemisms are positive answer too. Search terms are welcome. The closest I have seen is Russian analysis in news of the USA debt (maybe Zenaan posted the link, not sure). From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 16:47:27 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 09:47:27 +1000 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160721234727.GD23291@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:00:28AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > Hide your children and small pets (Goats too... I hear they like to > schtup goats) Too inclusive - according to the Koran, only female goats. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 17:04:04 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 10:04:04 +1000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20160719093057.GS16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160719093057.GS16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160722000404.GF23291@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 07:30:57PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Fundamentals of any stack for any system are: > > - physical concept - N2N/ neighbour to neighbour vs software overlay > on existing ISP based centralised "Internet" as people know it today Engineer Gets Tired Of Waiting For Telecom Companies To Wire His town -- So He Does It Himself https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/07/20/202200/engineer-gets-tired-of-waiting-for-telecom-companies-to-wire-his-town----so-he-does-it-himself THIS is the kind of thing we need more of, only with a relentless eye toward freedom and the enablement of individual control (not centralised control) over the physical network. Anyone live anywhere near this guy, to spend some hours having coffee? In general it has always been, and will always be, the grassroots individuals working together who will longer term change the world - for the better or for the worse. "Which role do I play?" From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 18:08:16 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:08:16 +1000 Subject: ten year old kid in Syria beheaded yesterday by U.S. supported "moderate rebels" In-Reply-To: References: <20160721123643.GA23291@x220-a02> <20160721234727.GD23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160722010816.GH23291@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 05:24:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/21/2016 04:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:00:28AM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > >> Hide your children and small pets (Goats too... I hear they like to > >> schtup goats) > > Too inclusive - according to the Koran, only female goats. > > > > > Since you brought the Koran into anything these goatfuckers do, you > really need to cite that. With context... That's the ISLAMIC RULES. You > have to put it in context to other places in the Koran. But the least > you can do, as a not-a-Muslim, who doesn't know the rules, is quote the > passage and give it's reference # or else I can simply assume you're a > stupid bigot troll who found that at some shithole of a White > Supremacist website on the darknet. A quick google search: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Bestiality It's a large page so refer specifically a few particular quotes: There is also a certain saying which remains popular among the Arabs: The Arabs have never taken quite so condemnatory an attitude towards the practice, and indeed a popular Arab saying had it that "The pilgrimage to Mecca is not complete without copulating with the camel." "Our companions have said that if the penile head has penetrated a woman's anus, or a man's anus, or an animal's vagina or its anus then it is necessary to wash whether the one being penetrated is alive or dead, young or old, whether it was done intentionally or absentmindedly, whether it was done willfully or forcefully." "If a woman inserts (in her vagina) an animal's penis she must wash, and if she inserts a detached penis (thakaran maktu-an, lit. “a severed male member”) there are two opinions; the most correct is that she must wash." "If he had sexual intercourse with an animal, that will not make his hajj void" "Sex with animals, dead people and masturbation, does not invalidate one's fast provided ejaculation does not occur" "Sex with animals before the mission (Islam) was wide spread and many narrations are narrated that it is halal but makrooh (disliked). And on the compulsory precaution one should abandon this practice that may cause self harm. And you must admit this to the owner of the sheep and pay the owner." " Conclusion >From all of the above, we can certainly see that, unlike the West, Islamic societies do not universally harbor negative attitudes towards bestiality. Many Muslims seek out gratification or are indifferent to this perversion, and in some cases it is even openly promoted and made obligatory. " From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 18:12:35 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:12:35 +1000 Subject: Two Different Instructors On Using Tor Crypto Etc... In-Reply-To: <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> References: <578CB33F.7050106@riseup.net> <578d4bf6.ca2fc80a.a1dda.9726@mx.google.com> <578DF35D.2080008@riseup.net> <578e9c29.5629370a.04e7.f1d6@mx.google.com> <578F32A7.9000107@riseup.net> <57906f43.e129370a.b15e4.2504@mx.google.com> <57908CA8.8040806@riseup.net> <579092c9.5444370a.c4ac2.3467@mx.google.com> <5790A282.1030700@riseup.net> <57916f87.0864370a.4c861.fa6b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160722011235.GI23291@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:00:56PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 04:22:58 -0600 > Mirimir wrote: > > > On 07/21/2016 03:19 AM, juan wrote: > > > On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 02:49:44 -0600 > > > Mirimir wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> If you expect help from the establishment you certainly > > >>> are fucked. > > >> > > >> You work with what you have. > > > > > > That is absurd. If what you have is not fitted for the task > > > at hand you are just wasting your time. > > > > OK, but here you are, using a GMail address, and presumably nothing to > > substantively obscure your identity. > > > It's a bit too late for me to start hiding my identity. > And the US hasn't invaded argentina yet =P (though they just > might =/ ) Not directly no, just the usual: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor " Some estimates are that at least 60,000 deaths can be attributed to Condor,[8][9] and possibly more.[10] " " The United States government provided technical support and supplied military aid to the participants until at least 1978, and again after Republican Ronald Reagan became President in 1981. " From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 22 11:18:46 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:18:46 -0700 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: <8ED42DB0-372A-45AE-8CB7-6EA7C88A86E5@synfin.org> References: <8ED42DB0-372A-45AE-8CB7-6EA7C88A86E5@synfin.org> Message-ID: On 07/22/2016 11:01 AM, John wrote: > > On July 22, 2016 5:16:44 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >> https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/ >> https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/877591/download >> https://torrentfreak.com/images/KAT-complaint.pdf >> http://kickass.to/IPRC_Seized_2016_kat.jpg >> >> http://kickasstorrents.to/ >> http://kickasstorrents.website/ >> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-mirrors-and-imposters-spring-into-action-160722/ >> https://torrentfreak.com/can-kickasstorrents-make-a-comeback-160721/ >> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-hits-new-high-with-unrivaled-community-160619/ >> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ >> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-ups-user-privacy-with-two-factor-authentication-160410/ >> >> With the current game becoming a losing or at least >> tiresome battle, it's no wonder filesharers are slowly coming >> over to darknets and raising their game. Once they jettison >> clearnet ops entirely, they might prove quite resistant indeed. > Buy a $40 Amazon firestick and install Kodi. It beats torrenting all to hell (for movies / TV). > > John > Amazon? Install a special player? No. Just no, and forevermore it will be no. Rr Ps. I just downloaded a 1080p Hi-rez copy of Banksy's Exit Through The Gift Shop from putlocker using jDownloader thank you very much. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 18:32:51 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 11:32:51 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160722013251.GJ23291@x220-a02> Some historical background on Turkish coups and current analysis: Why Russia Revealed Coup Plans to Erdogan Putin prefers the devil he knows to the unpredictable pro-US military http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/turkey-why-russia-revealed-coup-plans-erdogan/ri15764 From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 21 20:21:48 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 13:21:48 +1000 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 07:43:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > " I made a thing. It fixes Wikipedia et al." > > Overview: https://twitter.com/maymaymx/status/755958353273192448 > > https://github.com/meitar/de-euphemizer/#readme I can think of a few Juan would add to that list - some might consider them nsfw, others might consider them facts :) From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 22 11:01:12 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 14:01:12 -0400 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ED42DB0-372A-45AE-8CB7-6EA7C88A86E5@synfin.org> On July 22, 2016 5:16:44 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/ >https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/877591/download >https://torrentfreak.com/images/KAT-complaint.pdf >http://kickass.to/IPRC_Seized_2016_kat.jpg > >http://kickasstorrents.to/ >http://kickasstorrents.website/ >https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-mirrors-and-imposters-spring-into-action-160722/ >https://torrentfreak.com/can-kickasstorrents-make-a-comeback-160721/ >https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-hits-new-high-with-unrivaled-community-160619/ >https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ >https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-ups-user-privacy-with-two-factor-authentication-160410/ > >With the current game becoming a losing or at least >tiresome battle, it's no wonder filesharers are slowly coming >over to darknets and raising their game. Once they jettison >clearnet ops entirely, they might prove quite resistant indeed. Buy a $40 Amazon firestick and install Kodi. It beats torrenting all to hell (for movies / TV). John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 22 11:46:50 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 14:46:50 -0400 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <22e307fd-5fbe-ae38-7478-0d4dfdfbf6af@riseup.net> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> <22e307fd-5fbe-ae38-7478-0d4dfdfbf6af@riseup.net> Message-ID: <8c77a333-1298-df6d-2a55-11b80880a886@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/22/2016 09:51 AM, Rayzer wrote: > Ps. I consider that extension, even tho I don't use Chrome, an > Effective Use of Technology for Social Change. > > The possibilities are limitless! Marketable as "The de-programming > tool on your browser bar" > > For instance, Georgi, on another thread > > "Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial > system with their true names?" Can't say that I see much value in toys created for the purpose of reinforcing the brand loyalty of Sheeple 2.0 with regard to whatever Identity Politics trap they have fallen into. Of course if you /want/ to deploy a stupidity amplifier, anything that constantly reminds a True Believer that he or she is better than other people will do the trick. Does your bright idea help mutually alienate people who might otherwise band together to promote their common interests at the expense of their rulers? Apply for a grant! Identity politics works by conditioning people to pin their self esteem on the inherent superiority of their racial, language, national, economic, social and/or political in-group. Strict compliance with the pseudo-gang's rigid stereotypical beliefs and behaviors makes the faithful Somebodies, and prevents them from associating with hated Others. Like all effective propaganda platforms, identity politics formalizes and exploits a pre-existing human weakness, in this case the so-called herd instinct. Identity politics is maintained and advanced through strategy that consistently scapegoats and demonizes targeted Others and, to a lesser extent, anyone else who fails to hear and obey the correct Party Line. Logic, reason and practicality are off the table, although simulating these to provide "proofs" of what Believers already believe is an important part of the complete and balanced propaganda breakfast. It's easy, because all issues are reduced to binary us versus them issues. The more valid an evidence based criticism of any article of faith, the more desperately the true believer clutches for straws: It doesn't take much to "rescue" them from wrong thinking. Otherwise sane and rational people become easily led animals when they fall under the spell of identity politics; a high IQ only means superior internal resources for rationalizing ignorant beliefs. That's where Knee Jerk Reactionary Republicans, Yellow Dog Democrats and other packaged personlike Product comes from, and how segmented markets are herded into battles that assure a populace so divided against itself that its rulers have a free hand to do whatever they want unopposed, except by easily marginalized outliers and minorities. Funny thing: Lots of readers will agree with the above assessment, because it applies to ignorant easily led Other People, proving that their own identity group is better. :o/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkmoaAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqKSoIAIukZKpTXk8hZDCw3yyhfOpK jMHfQYI3Y4SWEoVYM/V4NTuvrM7y1NCDnN0OdSQ5H/+X8W+iW8LN5mf8RyIJuwVE uKRRP1n4HDE7/bV03K6p6T0HRjpWIViOZ7qIv87g0JXumOwz3P71GVoafdo+cLv5 3k3Uro5iXVt3tmtYqV5ga3tgFJo5MxkXBvm4DumQS+XAnNZFIqPC8Uf3XeNJGtQA 6HYXjVV66h3Xa0454ySkIc/HkQ0rwYo4yZpq3aeALLUkTZKF1YgDEruOAjMqXklV sgsoBFMsu54feAO24GK4qA44ihn01iePgSYgBVLwwLgVNiGVjHBGwuOReus7cm8= =hZj7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 22 12:28:09 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:28:09 -0400 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: References: <8ED42DB0-372A-45AE-8CB7-6EA7C88A86E5@synfin.org> Message-ID: It's an android app (and Windows/OS X/Linux), the successor to Xbmc. it's actually really fucking impressive, after you've installed the right 3rd party plugins. None of the Amazon shit really comes into it, besides paying $40 for something that probably cost $50 to manufacture. Actually, people were building raspberry pi Kodi boxes (and surely still are) before this super cheap and simple solution arrived. -- John > On Jul 22, 2016, at 2:18 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > >> On 07/22/2016 11:01 AM, John wrote: >> >>> On July 22, 2016 5:16:44 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >>> https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/ >>> https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/877591/download >>> https://torrentfreak.com/images/KAT-complaint.pdf >>> http://kickass.to/IPRC_Seized_2016_kat.jpg >>> >>> http://kickasstorrents.to/ >>> http://kickasstorrents.website/ >>> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-mirrors-and-imposters-spring-into-action-160722/ >>> https://torrentfreak.com/can-kickasstorrents-make-a-comeback-160721/ >>> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-hits-new-high-with-unrivaled-community-160619/ >>> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ >>> https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-ups-user-privacy-with-two-factor-authentication-160410/ >>> >>> With the current game becoming a losing or at least >>> tiresome battle, it's no wonder filesharers are slowly coming >>> over to darknets and raising their game. Once they jettison >>> clearnet ops entirely, they might prove quite resistant indeed. >> Buy a $40 Amazon firestick and install Kodi. It beats torrenting all to hell (for movies / TV). >> >> John > > Amazon? Install a special player? > > No. Just no, and forevermore it will be no. > > Rr > > Ps. I just downloaded a 1080p Hi-rez copy of Banksy's Exit Through The > Gift Shop from putlocker using jDownloader thank you very much. > From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 22 12:43:52 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:43:52 -0400 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <8c77a333-1298-df6d-2a55-11b80880a886@pilobilus.net> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> <22e307fd-5fbe-ae38-7478-0d4dfdfbf6af@riseup.net> <8c77a333-1298-df6d-2a55-11b80880a886@pilobilus.net> Message-ID: <8FC2B340-DDB2-4536-9555-ED412DDE2DA2@synfin.org> Ehhh.... Fuck a cop. John On July 22, 2016 2:46:50 PM EDT, Steve Kinney wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > > > >On 07/22/2016 09:51 AM, Rayzer wrote: > >> Ps. I consider that extension, even tho I don't use Chrome, an >> Effective Use of Technology for Social Change. >> >> The possibilities are limitless! Marketable as "The de-programming >> tool on your browser bar" >> >> For instance, Georgi, on another thread >> >> "Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial >> system with their true names?" > >Can't say that I see much value in toys created for the purpose of >reinforcing the brand loyalty of Sheeple 2.0 with regard to whatever >Identity Politics trap they have fallen into. Of course if you /want/ >to deploy a stupidity amplifier, anything that constantly reminds a >True Believer that he or she is better than other people will do the >trick. Does your bright idea help mutually alienate people who might >otherwise band together to promote their common interests at the >expense of their rulers? Apply for a grant! > >Identity politics works by conditioning people to pin their self >esteem on the inherent superiority of their racial, language, >national, economic, social and/or political in-group. Strict >compliance with the pseudo-gang's rigid stereotypical beliefs and >behaviors makes the faithful Somebodies, and prevents them from >associating with hated Others. > >Like all effective propaganda platforms, identity politics formalizes >and exploits a pre-existing human weakness, in this case the so-called >herd instinct. Identity politics is maintained and advanced through >strategy that consistently scapegoats and demonizes targeted Others >and, to a lesser extent, anyone else who fails to hear and obey the >correct Party Line. Logic, reason and practicality are off the table, >although simulating these to provide "proofs" of what Believers >already believe is an important part of the complete and balanced >propaganda breakfast. It's easy, because all issues are reduced to >binary us versus them issues. The more valid an evidence based >criticism of any article of faith, the more desperately the true >believer clutches for straws: It doesn't take much to "rescue" them >from wrong thinking. > >Otherwise sane and rational people become easily led animals when they >fall under the spell of identity politics; a high IQ only means >superior internal resources for rationalizing ignorant beliefs. >That's where Knee Jerk Reactionary Republicans, Yellow Dog Democrats >and other packaged personlike Product comes from, and how segmented >markets are herded into battles that assure a populace so divided >against itself that its rulers have a free hand to do whatever they >want unopposed, except by easily marginalized outliers and minorities. > >Funny thing: Lots of readers will agree with the above assessment, >because it applies to ignorant easily led Other People, proving that >their own identity group is better. > >:o/ > > > > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > >iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkmoaAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqKSoIAIukZKpTXk8hZDCw3yyhfOpK >jMHfQYI3Y4SWEoVYM/V4NTuvrM7y1NCDnN0OdSQ5H/+X8W+iW8LN5mf8RyIJuwVE >uKRRP1n4HDE7/bV03K6p6T0HRjpWIViOZ7qIv87g0JXumOwz3P71GVoafdo+cLv5 >3k3Uro5iXVt3tmtYqV5ga3tgFJo5MxkXBvm4DumQS+XAnNZFIqPC8Uf3XeNJGtQA >6HYXjVV66h3Xa0454ySkIc/HkQ0rwYo4yZpq3aeALLUkTZKF1YgDEruOAjMqXklV >sgsoBFMsu54feAO24GK4qA44ihn01iePgSYgBVLwwLgVNiGVjHBGwuOReus7cm8= >=hZj7 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 13:08:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:08:59 -0400 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A couple status examples from at least the surface layer of a couple different darknets... https://www.reddit.com/r/onions/comments/4u2g8y/deepweb_torrent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/i2p/comments/4nsu8r/any_good_p2pfilesharing_forums_on_i2p/ From admin at pilobilus.net Fri Jul 22 13:22:58 2016 From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:22:58 -0400 Subject: #BlackLivesMatter: Chrome extension de-euphemize certain common phrases In-Reply-To: <8FC2B340-DDB2-4536-9555-ED412DDE2DA2@synfin.org> References: <0e35cf50-4863-743d-2520-b32e5145b167@riseup.net> <20160722032148.GK23291@x220-a02> <485b23e2-4361-8e9d-88e2-05fbec871ef8@pilobilus.net> <22e307fd-5fbe-ae38-7478-0d4dfdfbf6af@riseup.net> <8c77a333-1298-df6d-2a55-11b80880a886@pilobilus.net> <8FC2B340-DDB2-4536-9555-ED412DDE2DA2@synfin.org> Message-ID: <3aed61a0-a1d9-68c3-a57a-ba14e19673ec@pilobilus.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/22/2016 03:43 PM, John wrote: > Ehhh.... Fuck a cop. A cop should fuck himself. He'll get more pussy that way. ;o) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXkoCiAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqE+gH/iKH8q3eSslJq0AIxnbq5LNa KEqaAjjAayRYbyv1kdulUXgs2dRdiWUs49kKDCxDiRrd3NU8tzWQTB+o/2zynGlp B79qXza99HSyvWa+QKnpKzjE4NduKYGEfjpqbjlB3tuSuLLLPZNEzswgMZFujWYB qZsRvRCKS9PCLJT7Wamrsw2nq1prekXMSuHfFmneZhAlvxfievd9EHJIdnxJPui+ 07ZOrNek40SeMYrqshmS6EqwTpp5fmnH3HmRxD24b/Rc9td2GmbzFmidku8f12ah ImpF9OzUd7lX1z24WxUz08JXhcfWdtaF1XCcFq4dKCvs33NrgId4LIWBtfXswEw= =rves -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From joyland at sigaint.org Fri Jul 22 09:56:25 2016 From: joyland at sigaint.org (Joy) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:56:25 -0000 Subject: Instead of only bashing tor, why not discuss the alternatives? In-Reply-To: <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> References: <20160719084416.GE843@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578ea182.822dc80a.feff0.d504@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <248f07c603191d6b7339b43a628c6ab8.webmail@localhost> >> As an aside, I heard critique of Riffle: MIT are allegedly in bed with >> USA. Don't know it this makes sense or not. > > > > Of course it does. As a matter of fact tor cunts dingledine and > syverson are part of mit, or part of mit projects like > 'dissent'. > > MIT is not as cohesive as people seem to think. Some groups might as well be at DARPA while others don't take military funding. The university really doesn't care. On that basis, I don't think the MIT name is enough to credit or discredit a project. You really have to look at the history of the research group. Additionally this was a grad student's project for a thesis requirement so by department policy it can't contain any confidential information. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 13:12:58 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:12:58 -0300 Subject: Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? In-Reply-To: <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> References: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57927d83.2d3ced0a.128e5.c0b4@mx.google.com> > > Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the > > financial system with their true names? > I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind, but this is a classic of sorts... MEMOIRS OF EXTRAORDINARY POPULAR DELUSIONS AND THE Madness of Crowds. By CHARLES MACKAY http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24518/24518-h/delusions.html From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 14:09:35 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 18:09:35 -0300 Subject: Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? In-Reply-To: <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> References: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <57928ac8.58efe90a.fe5f0.d36f@mx.google.com> > For example, one of the > economic "true-isms" that I've never grokked is why the central > bankers/ accountant types always say "high interest rates reduce > inflation, low interest rates may cause inflation" - I've always > thought of it the other way around. Any takers on this one? > Government and the banking mafia print money, that is, they 'inflate' the 'money supply' and so prices go up. The whole process can be referred to as 'inflation'. When all prices go up, people usually say there's 'inflation' and they are usually right, although they don't know the reason for the higher prices. So you have two related meanings for the word 'inflation'. A more technical one which includes the cause for higher prices, and a more 'vulgar' def. according to which 'inflation' just means higher prices. "high interest rates reduce inflation" So, what's meant by 'inflation' there? Just higher prices. And yes, the assertion is backwards. What really happens is this : The banking mafia prints money out of thin air. Since they have more (fake/counterfeited) money to lend, they lower interest rates. Fake 'capital' is more abundant, so because of demand/supply, the 'price' of capital (interest) goes down. And so, printing money has two different effects. It makes fake credit cheaper AND it causes prices of other goods and services to go up, in part because people are now spending the new money they got as credit. "low interest rates may cause inflation" Causation is backwards. Inflation of the money supply leads to 'low', SUBSIDIZED interest rates. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 16:55:22 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 19:55:22 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > because, officer says, "I don't know why". More with the dumb... http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4u0gf4/bullet_that_struck_caregiver_in_north_miami_was/ http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html And just more... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGaa7E6ICX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ghdM66U4Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNJT8EpLBuI https://www.readfrontier.com/investigation/judges-order-elliott-williams-jail-cell-became-burial-crypt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4txoga/the_us_customs_and_border_protection_has_agreed/ Needless escalation, failure to chill? Defensive death weapon used as command compliance device? Aggressive, unstable, roid rage employees? Systematic mistraining? Political defense of the blue power arm? Unelected unaccountable forces? You decide. Keep your phones charged and encrypted. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 22 02:57:43 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 19:57:43 +1000 Subject: Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? In-Reply-To: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 09:45:17AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the > financial system with their true names? There's a little book from decades ago I recommend, and the title about sums it up according to my dad: "I want the world plus 5%." If there's anything specific you really want to grok, start somewhere, anywhere in fact, and just post a question if you get stuck - plenty of folks round here are smarter than you or I. For example, one of the economic "true-isms" that I've never grokked is why the central bankers/ accountant types always say "high interest rates reduce inflation, low interest rates may cause inflation" - I've always thought of it the other way around. Any takers on this one? > Euphemisms are positive answer too. I'll those to Juan :) From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 22 03:01:03 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 20:01:03 +1000 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160722100103.GP23291@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 05:16:44AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ Is there dark web site down too, or have they already 'distributed'? > With the current game becoming a losing or at least > tiresome battle, it's no wonder filesharers are slowly coming > over to darknets and raising their game. Once they jettison > clearnet ops entirely, they might prove quite resistant indeed. >From some perspectives, that'll be a damn good thing - cause the darknets to "have to" go through a period of 'rapid improvement', cause the RIAA MAFIAA to have to work much harder and if they enlist the USA Feds (federal agencies), there's a slim chance they'll exploit and expose backdoors other than the GPAs, thereby causing further improvement by necessity. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 17:37:00 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 20:37:00 -0400 Subject: Police 3D Print Dead Man's Fingers To Unlock Phone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/21/16, grarpamp wrote: > http://fusion.net/story/327145/3d-print-dead-mans-fingers-to-unlock-his-phone/ > > Last month, law enforcement officers showed up at the lab of Anil > Jain, a professor at Michigan State University. Jain wasn’t in > trouble; the officers wanted his help. > And Jain said he was happy to help when they got in touch: “We do it > for the fun.” > > Just like telecoms, government "asks", university gives, for teh lols. On 7/21/2016 2:18 PM, David I. Emery wrote: > the police ask specialists at a nearby university (gee, a taxpayer-funded > institution?!) for help analyzing the victim's ... ... vagina and rectum. Seems that little "happy to help" warrantless irrational venture cost UMC El Paso / Texas Tech $1.1 million worth of, you guessed it... taxpayer dollars again... US woman given body cavity searches at border settles case http://bigstory.ap.org/3c4047c5014b4b90be6af639f8274eee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Medical_Center_(El_Paso,_Texas) In the 1950s, voters created the El Paso County Hospital District, which would govern the General Hospital, agreeing to be taxed to support the District which would also provide indigent care. http://www.umcelpaso.org/webshell/umcep.nsf/0/C0D10803C6CBB1C287256DA3007063CE Unlike the other hospitals in this area, University Medical Center of El Paso is owned by the people of El Paso. They are the city’s only not-for-profit, community hospital, which means their allegiances are to no one other than the people they serve... http://www.umcelpaso.org/webshell/umcep.nsf/0/E29CB8423D69B27087256D9A00176868 Ignoring the censorship of taxpayer funded docs in at least the front page of the first doc... the payout is hopefully listed in the finances here. > and the professors just laugh and say "Naw, it might violate the dead person's privacy!" Seems to me like a whole lot more people need to be saying "Naw, it might violate peoples rights". https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4txoga/the_us_customs_and_border_protection_has_agreed/ $475,000 of taxpayer money, again, yet heads still aren't rolling, and laws and lawmakers aren't changing. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 17:44:08 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 20:44:08 -0400 Subject: Global Authorities Redacting Islam To Further Their Agendas Message-ID: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4u28tl/authorities_in_nice_are_protesting_against_a/ " Nothing to hide, nothing to fear right? Let us see the footage. Same with the fabled Orlando 911 call and cctv footage etc.. " The FBI wanted to remove all references to Islam from those 911 calls and people rightfully got upset. Whatever the goal of covering up the cause of these attacks is - its apparently global. " Redacting the embarassing, furthering the plan. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 22 03:55:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 20:55:26 +1000 Subject: Largest Torrent Site Kick Ass Torrents Shutdown By US Agents In-Reply-To: <20160722100103.GP23291@x220-a02> References: <20160722100103.GP23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160722105526.GR23291@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 08:01:03PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 05:16:44AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://torrentfreak.com/kickasstorrents-enters-the-dark-web-adds-official-tor-address-160607/ > > Is there dark web site down too, or have they already 'distributed'? Yep, all down. USA, as we know, assumes "global jurisdiction" and further, not only assumes global jurisdiction, but exercises global jurisdiction. This bully must be stopped. Note well the following: "U.S. Government has arrested the alleged owner of KAT ... The 30-year-old Ukrainian was arrested in Poland today, and is charged with criminal copyright infringement and money laundering ... [by] a federal court in Chicago" Also note well that Apple dobbed him in (sure, poor op-sec, made a purchase on iTunes, single email address, and assumed all advertisers would be trusted, evidently). https://torrentfreak.com/feds-seize-kickasstorrents-domains-charge-owner-160720/ Feds Seize KickassTorrents Domains, Arrest Alleged Owner (Updated) By Ernesto on July 20, 2016 Breaking The U.S. Government has arrested the alleged owner of KickassTorrents, the world's largest torrent site. The 30-year-old Ukrainian was arrested in Poland today and is charged with criminal copyright infringement and money laundering. In addition, a federal court in Chicago has ordered the seizure of several KAT domain names. With millions of unique visitors per day KickassTorrents (KAT) has become the most-used torrent site on the Internet, beating even The Pirate Bay. Today, however, the site has run into a significant roadblock after U.S. authorities announced the arrest of the site’s alleged owner. The 30-year-old Artem Vaulin, from Ukraine, was arrested today in Poland from where the United States has requested his extradition. In a criminal complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Chicago, the alleged owner is charged with conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement, conspiracy to commit money laundering, and two counts of criminal copyright infringement. https://torrentfreak.com/images/katcomplaint.png The complaint further reveals that the feds posed as an advertiser, which revealed a bank account associated with the site. It also shows that Apple handed over personal details of Vaulin after the investigator cross-referenced an IP-address used for an iTunes transaction with an IP-address that was used to login to KAT’s Facebook account. “Records provided by Apple showed that [email protected] conducted an iTunes transaction using IP Address 109.86.226.203 on or about July 31, 2015. The same IP Address was used on the same day to login into the KAT Facebook,” the complaint reads. In addition to the arrest in Poland, the court also granted the seizure of a bank account associated with KickassTorrents, as well as several of the site’s domain names. Commenting on the announcement, Assistant Attorney General Caldwell said that KickassTorrents helped to distribute over $1 billion in pirated files. “Vaulin is charged with running today’s most visited illegal file-sharing website, responsible for unlawfully distributing well over $1 billion of copyrighted materials.” “In an effort to evade law enforcement, Vaulin allegedly relied on servers located in countries around the world and moved his domains due to repeated seizures and civil lawsuits. His arrest in Poland, however, demonstrates again that cybercriminals can run, but they cannot hide from justice.” KAT’s .com and .tv domains are expected to be seized soon by Verisign. For the main Kat.cr domain and several others, seizure warrants will be sent to the respective authorities under the MLAT treaty. At the time of writing the main domain name Kat.cr has trouble loading, but various proxies still appear to work. KAT’s status page doesn’t list any issues, but we assume that this will be updated shortly. TorrentFreak has reached out to the KAT team for a comment on the news and what it means for the site’s future, but we have yet to hear back. From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jul 22 14:03:00 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (Mr Nobody) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:03:00 +0000 Subject: Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) In-Reply-To: References: <20160718111101.GC686@sivokote.iziade.m$> <578d33f7.0435c80a.0219.df82@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I don't thnk that self sufficiency works in this world anymore, and less for a country like China. Tinfoil hat apart, T-Bills from the US pay shit, but they keep their value. Inflation is high in China, and keeping it in the bank makes it disappear. Sean Lynch: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 1:00 PM juan wrote: > >> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:11:01 +0300 >> Georgi Guninski wrote: >> >>> Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) >>> >>> This was intended as reply to juan's reply, but deserves >>> another thread. >>> >>> juan claimed the chinese are against 'merica. >> >> Not exactly. I am well aware that the chinese oligarchs are in >> bed with western oligarchs to...various extents. >> >> I said it would be a good thing if russia/china opposed the US, >> but it's not something that's happening to any serious degree, >> I'd say. >> > The Chinese are pro-China, but they recognize that the US is a very large > market for Chinese goods, and for now their economy is built on exports. > Whatever they may think of the US or Europe, our fortunes are tied together > by trade unless/until they decide to become "self-sufficient," which works > both ways. When this starts to happen, war may not be too far behind. > > >>> i thought that the chinese are the main 'merica public debt >>> creditor, >> Which means that the working chinese have been forced by their >> own government to finance the americunt-wall-street financial >> mafia. Good for goldman-sachs. Bad for Mr. Li. >> > Exactly. But yeah, 7%. They may be the largest FOREIGN debt holder, which > I'm pretty sure is what Trump actually means. > > >>> but can't find reference for this on the >>> interwebz. >>> >>> Partial results: >>> >>> CNN [sic] >>> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ | Who >>> owns America's debt? >>> >>> | Donald Trump says he can "make a deal" on America's debt. >>> >>> | Last week, he implied that he could negotiate with America's >>> creditors to get them to accept a lower rate of repayment, such as 85 >>> cents for every dollar. >>> >>> | The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such >>> as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the >>> Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of >>> the debt. >> >> Governments 'lending' money to themselves, which seems pretty >> absurd, simply means that they keep printing billions out of >> thin air. Need money? Just print it! Isn't socialized banking >> amazing. >> > Yep, just bookkeeping tricks. But yeah, didn't protect the banks back in > the days (1990s) when they weren't allowed to branch across state lines, > were required to hold a large fraction of their debt in their own state's > bonds, and states kept defaulting. And it means a US government "default" > will have interesting consequences. > > >>> | China's share of the debt is sizable -- about 7% -- but it's hardly >>> the largest holder of U.S. government bonds. >>> >>> What do you expect from 'mericuns? They are creditors of >>> themselves, lol. And they "negotiate" paying less... >> >> Yeah, all creditors are equal, but some creditors are more >> equal than others. Some creditors are going to lose more than >> others... >> > Yup. > > >>> Though the chinese give mericuns virtual money, they don't mind >>> stealing from them: >>> >>> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/hacker_gets_46_months_cooler_time_for_shipping_f35_f22_secrets_to_pla/ >>> | Chinese national Su Bin has been sentenced to 46 months jail after >>> admitting his role in stealing information on the Lockheed F-22 and >>> F-35 aircraft, along with Boeing's C-17 cargo plane. >> Stealing from the biggest thieves on the world? =) >> >> >>> | The hacker admitted reports detailing the stolen data were sent to >>> the Chinese People’s Liberation Army General Staff Headquarters. >> > Not even really stealing. The Chinese people already paid for it by keeping > their goods cheap for us 'muricans. They're basically American taxpayers > for all intents and purposes. > > It's hard to blame Trump for believing that the problem with the national > debt is that the US owes a bunch of people money, and therefore the > solution is to negotiate some sort of settlement whereby the US pays less > than face value on its debt. But not blaming him and thinking he's > qualified to be President with such a view are completely separate things. > > The problem is not that the US has too much debt. The problem is that the > US is running out of credit. And by "credit" I mean generically *trust.* No > negotiated settlement can recover lost credit. Quite the contrary; if the > US is going to saber-rattle in order to avoid paying what it's promised to > pay despite having its debts denominated in its own currency, that can only > hurt the US's credit with other countries. > > Debt is also not the only promise the US federal government, to say nothing > of state and local governments, have made that they are going to have > trouble keeping. There's a bunch of other mandatory spending that's growing > every year faster than GDP with no plan to reduce it: pension obligations, > social security, medicare, welfare. 2/3 of the Federal budget is mandatory > spending. Half of discretionary spending would have to be cut in order to > balance the budget. Half of discretionary spending goes to the military. > And of course, huge cuts like that will also cut into revenue, at least in > the short term, while doing nothing to actually reduce the governments' > unfunded liabilities. > > That said, the US is actually in fantastic shape compared to most of the > "developed" world. So interest rates remain low for the US because it's the > nicest house in a really shitty neighborhood. Dark times are ahead for the > entire developed world unless economic growth rates come up quite a bit. > -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 22 04:13:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:13:31 +1000 Subject: NATO preparing an invasion of Russia, Bundeswehr about to declare Russia an enemy nation In-Reply-To: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160722111331.GS23291@x220-a02> On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 07:55:19PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > http://theduran.com/germany-preparing-war-russia/ Well, the original white paper draft, if it were as alleged, got watered down a bit, for which we can be grateful - now it's just unpleasant, the usual "bad Russia" fear mongering (Russia is reclassified (from as previously a "partner") to a "factor of instability") lapdogging for USA / NATO thereby encouraging increased BISMIC funding. The cynic in me imagines that the first, rather horrific draft was simply to make this version "diplomatically palatable in comparison." Moscow to consider Germany's change of policy in viewing Russia as factor of instability July 21, 18:13 UTC+3 German government approved the 2016 White Paper on the country’s security policy and armed forces on July 13 http://tass.ru/en/politics/889834 From bbrewer at littledystopia.net Fri Jul 22 18:33:50 2016 From: bbrewer at littledystopia.net (bbrewer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:33:50 -0400 Subject: the most annoying thing about Juan In-Reply-To: <57915aa7.91c3370a.c2532.eec6@mx.google.com> References: <20160719091530.GR16437@x220-a02> <578DF584.8030003@riseup.net> <578e9d29.1724c80a.2784a.da4d@mx.google.com> <578F2DAB.9010206@riseup.net> <57906a49.55aa370a.3886c.29ec@mx.google.com> <57907D3E.3070605@riseup.net> <57908b11.c79b370a.9b025.364a@mx.google.com> <57909BDA.6060707@riseup.net> <57915aa7.91c3370a.c2532.eec6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > On Jul 21, 2016, at 7:31 PM, juan wrote: > ….. > The internet is a tool for total domination. 100% agree with your thoughts on tor as a network (ie; using it does nothing but protect the creators due to the core design principle — the ‘tech behind it’ need not be changed nor understood, if this is. as well, the above quoted statement reminded me only of the proverb, “don’t put all your eggs in one basket”. Oh my, we’ve so failed that one. -Benjamin From bbrewer at littledystopia.net Fri Jul 22 18:37:32 2016 From: bbrewer at littledystopia.net (bbrewer) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:37:32 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re=3A_What_If_There_Just_Aren=E2=80=99t_Enough_Jobs_to?= =?utf-8?Q?_Go_Around=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jul 21, 2016, at 6:41 PM, grarpamp wrote: > > http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/07/21/what-if-there-just-arent-enough-jobs-to-go-around/ > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12139627 > http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Declining-Entrepreneurship-Labor-Mobility-and-Business-Dynamism-A-Demand-Side-Approach.pdf > > " > The Roosevelt authors say a key factor is the concentration of > resources in the hands of managers and owners of large > corporations—think of CEOs who are compensated largely in shares of > the firms they oversee. This ownership encourages them to skimp on > labor costs to further enrich themselves, in their analysis. That > shrinking demand for labor then helps depress job-market dynamism. It > also contributes to broader secular stagnation, since wealthier people > tend to save more of their incomes. > " > > " > 1) Eventually, and probably pretty soon (within 100years), that there > obviously won't be jobs for everyone. Automation, progress(efficiency > gains) and increasing population makes it inevitable. > 2) That a general "goal" of society is do away with jobs. In any > traditional sense. To me we've been approaching that ever since > agriculture provided ability to support specialists (those who don't > spend time gathering/producing the food/resources they need). Such as > scientists, artists and soldiers. The jobs keep moving "up" the ladder > (away from production). Previous low-rung jobs get reduced in number > by efficiency or replaced via automation. The end of this trend is > that all basic needs are met by 0 to a tiny fraction of a percent of > human labor and rest are all free to pursue specialist activities such > as science, art, and killing each other. > “ I once read an article somewhere about the notion of the modern day ‘job’ and how they didn’t (all) exist in order to get actual ‘work’ done, but instead existed to prove ones ‘worth’ to society, in the form of what we call money. Perhaps you have a link or title to this article? I’ve completely spaced the author, title, location of this piece, but i’ve mentioned it to friends a million times over, and am simply unable to locate… Cheers, Benjamin > From mrnobody at mail-on.us Fri Jul 22 14:50:00 2016 From: mrnobody at mail-on.us (Mr Nobody) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:50:00 +0000 Subject: Open Phones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems like an awesome initiative but jeez... a thousand dollars. Don't get me wrong, I believe is a right price for a handmade piece of engineering like that. It's incredible what economies of scale can do in technology. Nowadays you yet decent android phones for $60-70... how it went down that much. grarpamp: > "Open"... being relative, yet interesting... > > > https://neo900.org/ > > Are you tired of all those closed mobile platforms? Do you want to > truly own a device that has the ability to do whatever you want, just > like your PC? > > The Neo900 project aims to provide a Fremantle (Maemo™ 5) compatible > successor to the N900, with a faster CPU, more RAM and an LTE modem. > This is all based on a free, mature and stable platform - the GTA04. > > We'll provide complete, ready-to-use devices, as well as motherboard > replacements for your current devices. > > Most importantly, the Neo900 is an open platform, carrying on in the > tradition of the Openmoko project. Neo900 will support all operating > systems available for GTA04 (QtMoko, SHR, Debian, Replicant, ...) and > should serve as a great platform for porting systems like Maemo, > Ubuntu or Firefox OS - or even for writing your own one! > > We bring the hardware, you choose the operating system. > -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 22 04:56:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 21:56:34 +1000 Subject: Western backed 'moderate rebels' the Free Syrian Army, condemn recent USA and French bombing in Syria as "shocking massacres" Message-ID: <20160722115634.GT23291@x220-a02> Trigger warning: this article comes not from the US Veterans Today, but from the newsroom formerly known as Russia Today, or to some "Russia f!@#ing Today", now known as RT.com . . . Those seeking politically correct Western newspeak have been warned! Syrian opposition asks US-led coalition to halt strikes after reports of mass civilian casualties https://www.rt.com/news/352542-syrian-opposition-us-strikes/ See also: 'Bloody massacres’: Syria appeals to UN after French & US airstrikes 'kill over 140 civilians’ https://www.rt.com/news/352255-france-syria-civilians-dead/ And for those who are as sadly cynical as I: ‘Beyond a massacre: France deliberately bombed Syrian civilians after Nice attack’ https://www.rt.com/op-edge/352283-syria-us-france-bombing/ " Western coalition forces knew they were attacking an area inhabited by civilians and yet they carried out a bombing. How can 30 airstrikes be a mistake? How can they all be a mistake, political commentator Marwa Osman asked RT. The Syrian Foreign Ministry has written to the UN blaming US and French warplanes for the deaths of more than 100 civilians near the city of Manbij. The alleged French act of aggression claimed the lives of more than 120 civilians, most of them children, women and elderly. The fate of scores of other civilians still under the debris is unknown. The letter also mentioned the French air strikes came a day after US warplanes conducted a bombing raid, which Damascus claims killed 20 other civilians. " From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 20:07:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 23:07:44 -0400 Subject: Are there scientific papers calling sheeple and the financial system with their true names? In-Reply-To: <57927d83.2d3ced0a.128e5.c0b4@mx.google.com> References: <20160722064516.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160722095743.GO23291@x220-a02> <57927d83.2d3ced0a.128e5.c0b4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: > economic "true-isms" that I've never grokked is why the central > bankers/ accountant types always say "high interest rates reduce > inflation, low interest rates may cause inflation" - I've always > thought of it the other way around. Any takers on this one? Easy money prompts market makers to price higher and take more knowing it exists. It's fairly closely coupled. Don't worry much about small numeric X-flation. Unless the swings are faster than the time needed for it to pass through the market back to your wallet as income. Example: steep swings in commodities like petrol, gold, steel, and bitcoin often make one consider stockpiling for resale so you don't get priced out before then. Then you have long term, like does your money still allow you to buy the same quantity and quality of goods and services. That's the kicker. Economics is one thing, weird shit being done to and with markets is something else. Ask Bilderberg et al on that one. From spencerone at openmailbox.org Sat Jul 23 00:16:39 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 00:16:39 -0700 Subject: Open Phones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3851de868d7620dd3d14ae9e5eeaa92b@openmailbox.org> Hi, >> >> grarpamp: >> https://neo900.org/ >> "resistive [is] superior to capacitive screens" GTFOH. Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 23:44:13 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 02:44:13 -0400 Subject: Dying BlackBerry Tows Govt Line On Crypto Message-ID: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2465381/blackberry-ceo-disturbed-by-apples-hard-line-on-encryption https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/03/15/2045231/what-apple-can-learn-from-blackberry-not-to-do BlackBerry CEO John Chen said he is "disturbed" by Apple's tough approach to encryption and user privacy, warning that the firm's attitude is harmful to society. Earlier this year, Chen said in response to Apple resisting the government's demands to unlock an iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino shooters: "We are indeed in a dark place when companies put their reputations above the greater good." During BlackBerry's Security Summit in New York this week, Chen made several more comments about Apple's stance on encryption. "One of our competitors, we call it 'the other fruit company,' has an attitude that it doesn't matter how much it might hurt society, they're not going to help," he said. "I found that disturbing as a citizen. I think BlackBerry, like any company, should have a basic civil responsibility. If the world is in danger, we should be able to help out." He did say there was a lot of "nonsense" being reported about BlackBerry and its approach to how it handles user information. "Of course, there need to be clear guidelines. The guidelines we've adopted require legal assets. A subpoena for certain data. But if you have the data, you should give it to them," he said. "There's some complete nonsense about what we can and can't do. People are mad at us that we let the government have the data. It's absolute garbage. We can't do that." Chen also warned that mandatory back doors aren't a good idea either, hinting at the impending Investigatory Powers Bill. "There's proposed legislation in the U.S., and I'm sure it will come to the EU, that every vendor needs to provide some form of a back door. That is not going to fly at all. It just isn't," he said. It should be noted that blackberry is losing government sales due in part to its lineup of ancient and unsupported phones. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 00:06:59 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 03:06:59 -0400 Subject: Facebook WhatApp Payments, Microsoft Skype: Biggest Central Spy Platforms Message-ID: https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/20/one-billion-messengers/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/07/skype-finalizes-its-move-to-the-cloud-ignores-the-elephant-in-the-room/ https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/755759397050003460 Mass userbases, seeming updates, yet qualified analysts still able to easily lodge legitimate critiques on security, privacy, openness, crypto, privacy... From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 00:34:57 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 03:34:57 -0400 Subject: Facebook WhatApp Payments, Microsoft Skype: Biggest Central Spy Platforms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-fbi-can-neither-confirm-nor-deny-wiretapping-your-a-1776092971 Glomar'd: What you get when asking FBI whether "your home of things" is tapped. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 01:28:18 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 04:28:18 -0400 Subject: Open Phones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/22/16, Mr Nobody wrote: > Seems like an awesome initiative but jeez... a thousand dollars. > Don't get me wrong, I believe is a right price for a handmade piece of > engineering like that. New model closed source iPhones go for $700+. I'd happily pay $1k+ for an open phone if it used an open community designed baseband chip, ran a real unix, and was hopefully modular repairable / upgradeable even if bulkier version... the hackerspace of phones. > It's incredible what economies of scale can do in technology. Nowadays > you yet decent android phones for $60-70... how it went down that much. People can safely tether these to an IP hotspot / wifi, but lose cellular voice and SMS which won't make basic users happy. They could emulate it with VoIP, SIP trunks etc. Add in openvpn, tor, whatever. But it's a mashup. Given it's widely known to be a backdoor, the push for open baseband chips should really happen. And someone should test it with a kickstart. It can't be that hard to pull off. After all, baseband already exists in SDR, and ASIC miners have proven startup sized community fabrication efforts producing chips in large very sellable quantities. And there are now plenty of well heeled potential donors who are rather pissed at the surveillance and backdoor issues. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 02:26:10 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 05:26:10 -0400 Subject: UK 'emergency' 'serious' bulk spying retention is said OK Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/19/eu_court_bulk_data_ok_for_serious_crime/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 02:57:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 05:57:55 -0400 Subject: US FOIPA Held Up By Bogus Use Of Green Screens Message-ID: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/16/justice-department-freedom-of-information-computer-system A new lawsuit alleges that the FBI intentionally conducts inadequate searches of its records using a decades-old computer system when queried by citizens looking for records that should be available to the public. Freedom of Information Act (Foia) researcher Ryan Shapiro alleges “failure by design” in protocols at the Department of Justice (DoJ) for responding to public requests. The Foia law states that agencies must “make reasonable efforts to search for the records in electronic form or format”. In an effort to demonstrate that the FBI does not comply with this provision, Shapiro requested records of his own requests and ran up against the same roadblocks that stymied his progress in previous inquiries. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 08:20:58 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 08:20:58 -0700 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160723105821.GD690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160723105821.GD690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On 07/23/2016 03:58 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 02:40:46PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? > Don't know if this is true, but according to the Russian comrades, > "Turkey is housing 50-90 US nuclear bombs at Incirlik airbase". > > https://www.rt.com/op-edge/352703-top-10-turkey-failed-coup/ > > > ====== > 4. No NATO to the rescue > > Some observers found it incredible that there was no NATO > assistance forthcoming during the attempted coup, and despite > the fact that Turkey is housing 50-90 US nuclear bombs at > Incirlik airbase that could fall into the hands of a rebel > opposition with unknown credentials. > ======= > > > Common wisdom and most reliable reports say Turkey has US Nukes on it's soil for use against Russia just like they had Tora Bora-like installations to monitor Russian comms during the so-called 'cold war'. Tora Bora was also a sigint facility for that purpose. Iran had them too. There was no danger whatsoever of the nukes being misappropriated by the coup plotters. They're even more US-oriented policy-wise than Erdogan's government ever was. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 08:25:21 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 08:25:21 -0700 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160723080350.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160723080350.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On 07/23/2016 01:03 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Did someone mention yesterday's Munich shooting? > He just wanted to kill people. The Orlando and Nice killers ditto. No terrorism connections whatsoever... and miraculously, the media reported the Nice killer was off-meds. Ramp-down's a biatch. They really need to stop selling mind poison as 'medication'. It's NO SUBSTITUTE AT ALL for talk therapy... Just cheaper for the insurance companies. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 23 01:03:50 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:03:50 +0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160723080350.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Did someone mention yesterday's Munich shooting? -- I read the news today, oh boy -- Beatles From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 11:39:42 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:39:42 -0700 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words Message-ID: Hi Zeenan... You never DID get back to me about where you got that perverse interpolation of some salafist screed about the rules of Goat-Fucking, sweetheart. Here are some references. The basic tenets of the religion of hate analyzed... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoEZh2JWcAAgj7E.jpg:large Also see: Open Letter to al-Bagdadi and ISIS by Muslim scholars from around the world. http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/islam/page/2 1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas , and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith . 2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language. 3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences. 4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know. 5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings. 6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent. 7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers. 8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct. 9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief. 10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’. 11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture. 12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus. 13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert. 14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights. 15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights. 16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud ) without following the correct procedures that ensure justice and mercy. 17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people. 18 It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead. 19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God. 20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions. 21.Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray. 22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims. 23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam. 24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere. — -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sat Jul 23 04:35:55 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 13:35:55 +0200 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160723105821.GD690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160723105821.GD690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <90041469273755@web16g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1133 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Sat Jul 23 03:58:21 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 13:58:21 +0300 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey In-Reply-To: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160716114046.GD748@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160723105821.GD690@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 02:40:46PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Does the NATO's Turkey have nukes? Don't know if this is true, but according to the Russian comrades, "Turkey is housing 50-90 US nuclear bombs at Incirlik airbase". https://www.rt.com/op-edge/352703-top-10-turkey-failed-coup/ ====== 4. No NATO to the rescue Some observers found it incredible that there was no NATO assistance forthcoming during the attempted coup, and despite the fact that Turkey is housing 50-90 US nuclear bombs at Incirlik airbase that could fall into the hands of a rebel opposition with unknown credentials. ======= From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 11:56:27 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 14:56:27 -0400 Subject: Greens Party Jill Stein to Pardon Snowden, Manning, Kiriakou, Swartz, Etc Message-ID: http://www.wmnf.org/jill-stein-says-edward-snowden-cabinet-becomes-president/ http://www.jill2016.com/ So, I’d say let’s welcome home Edward Snowden as soon as we can and likewise, I would pardon Chelsea Manning, and some other whistleblowers out there, John Kiriakou and others who’ve really done a great service for us. And I also want to mention Aaron Swartz, who was a proponent of a free and liberated Internet and for sharing our resources on that internet, who was basically hounded into suicide And mind you, this is the majority of our discretionary budget. It’s 54% of our budget. It’s almost half of your income tax pays for these wars and this military that’s scattered all across the world, that does not make us safer, it actually makes us less safe and it inflames the local populations If you add up all the other bases of all the other countries put together, it’s less than 30, ok? And we have 1,000. So, there’s something really wrong with this picture. By coming back to a truly Defense Department, rather than an ‘offense department,’ we can actually scale way back on our military expenditures and have hundreds of billions of dollars to put into true security, here at home and in the causes of peace and justice around the world.” From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 12:43:56 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 15:43:56 -0400 Subject: EU Intel Property Office Report Hates on Tor, Bitcoin, Bittorrent, Goods Pirates and Models Message-ID: https://torrentfreak.com/tor-and-bitcoin-hinder-anti-piracy-efforts-160715/ https://euipo.europa.eu/tunnel-web/secure/webdav/guest/document_library/observatory/resources/Research_on_Online_Business_Models_IBM/Research_on_Online_Business_Models_IBM_en.pdf https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/launch-ipc3-europe%E2%80%99s-response-intellectual-property-crime https://torrentfreak.com/tag/bitcoin/ https://torrentfreak.com/tag/tor/ A new report published by the European Union Intellectual Property Office identifies a wide range of 'business models' that are used by pirate sites. The organization, which announced a new collaboration with Europol this week, signals Bitcoin and the Tor network as two key threats to ongoing anti-piracy efforts. To avoid enforcement efforts, pirate sites often go to extremes to hide themselves from rightsholders and authorities. Increasingly, this also means that they use various encryption technologies to increase their resilience and anonymity. Several of these techniques are highlighted in a new report published by the European Union Intellectual Property Office (EUIPO). The report gives a broad overview of the business models that are used to illegally exploit intellectual property. This includes websites dedicated to counterfeit goods, but also online piracy hubs such as torrent sites and file-hosting platforms. From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 13:06:07 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 16:06:07 -0400 Subject: Null Island Message-ID: http://www.nullisland.com/ The next http://www.sealandgov.org/ ? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 12:27:51 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 16:27:51 -0300 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: <20160723080350.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160723080350.GB690@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <5793c46b.9a35ed0a.fff52.8be6@mx.google.com> On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 11:03:50 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > Did someone mention yesterday's Munich shooting? No. Can anybody guess why the amount of false flags is increasing? > From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 18:25:04 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 18:25:04 -0700 Subject: Greens Party Jill Stein to Pardon Snowden, Manning, Kiriakou, Swartz, Etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f9a59d2-70a8-60fc-9378-7e2bc2b33f86@riseup.net> Jill Stein invites Bernie to join the Green Party now. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288987-green-party-candidate-sanders-should-leave-the-party-that On 07/23/2016 11:56 AM, grarpamp wrote: > http://www.wmnf.org/jill-stein-says-edward-snowden-cabinet-becomes-president/ > http://www.jill2016.com/ > > > So, I’d say let’s welcome home Edward Snowden as soon as we can and > likewise, I would pardon Chelsea Manning, and some other > whistleblowers out there, John Kiriakou and others who’ve really done > a great service for us. And I also want to mention Aaron Swartz, who > was a proponent of a free and liberated Internet and for sharing our > resources on that internet, who was basically hounded into suicide > > And mind you, this is the majority of our discretionary budget. It’s > 54% of our budget. It’s almost half of your income tax pays for these > wars and this military that’s scattered all across the world, that > does not make us safer, it actually makes us less safe and it inflames > the local populations > If you add up all the other bases of all the other countries put > together, it’s less than 30, ok? And we have 1,000. So, there’s > something really wrong with this picture. > By coming back to a truly Defense Department, rather than an ‘offense > department,’ we can actually scale way back on our military > expenditures and have hundreds of billions of dollars to put into true > security, here at home and in the causes of peace and justice around > the world.” > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 18:35:15 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 18:35:15 -0700 Subject: Null Island In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <662565f6-ce89-995a-3a37-b6240360b7ac@riseup.net> On 07/23/2016 01:06 PM, grarpamp wrote: > http://www.nullisland.com/ > > The next http://www.sealandgov.org/ ? > "A group of Null Islanders celebrate Khweta, our circumcision ceremony..." Oh look they have a mass Bris! http://www.kveller.com/article/what-to-expect-at-a-bris/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 993 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 23 03:04:39 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 20:04:39 +1000 Subject: US FOIPA Held Up By Bogus Use Of Green Screens In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160723100439.GV23291@x220-a02> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 05:57:55AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/16/justice-department-freedom-of-information-computer-system > > A new lawsuit alleges that the FBI intentionally conducts inadequate > searches of its records using a decades-old computer system when > queried by citizens looking for records that should be available to > the public. > > Freedom of Information Act (Foia) researcher Ryan Shapiro alleges > “failure by design” in protocols at the Department of Justice (DoJ) > for responding to public requests. The Foia law states that agencies > must “make reasonable efforts to search for the records in electronic > form or format”. > > In an effort to demonstrate that the FBI does not comply with this > provision, Shapiro requested records of his own requests and ran up > against the same roadblocks that stymied his progress in previous > inquiries. Rabbit holes ... the goals and purpose of government, along with murder, theft, graft, deception, papers please, coercion, corruption and all manner of other evils. The United States Government is merely the best example of despotic government today. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 20:41:51 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 20:41:51 -0700 Subject: Democrat National Committee gets leaked. In-Reply-To: <986469847.4440458.1469329840687.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <986469847.4440458.1469329840687.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <986469847.4440458.1469329840687.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <95cc00bb-67e3-d8dc-596b-478972a32142@riseup.net> On 07/23/2016 08:10 PM, jim bell wrote: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703873/Does-believe-God-Wikileaks-releases-hacked-emails-eve-Hillary-s-convention-one-reveals-plan-story-Bernie-never-act-raise-questions-faith.html > > > I am so absolutely overjoyed that somebody released these 19,000+ > Democrat National Committee emails, showing that they were and are > trying to sabotage Sanders' primary campaign. If there is a way to > destroy a political party, this is certainly it. And the one about > trying to get Bernie Sanders to state he's an atheist, because that > would bother the Southern Baptists worse than if he were Jewish, > that's clearly an example of making just about everyone angry at the > same time. Wonderful act! Even better timing! > > Maybe the Democrats (and the Republicans as well) will begin to > appreciate the value of good encryption. > > If anybody out there is old enough to remember the 1968 Democrat > Convention in Chicago, which turned into a "police riot", maybe we > will see a repeat 48 years later. > > I will, of course, be voting for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, > albeit with a few reservations. (Only some of which can be seen by > doing a Google-search for the words 'Nazi cake'). I utterly detest > pandering, even if (especially if!) done by people identifying > themselves as libertarians.. > > Jim Bell > They caught my 14 year old ass in the Jersey City freightyard with an older friend (16) and I didn't make it... But I got my licks in anyway! Note that Jill Stein is going for the Democratic Party's throat b/c #DNCLeaks: I said it once today, I'll say it again: #BernieMustDisavow the DNC. #DNCLeaks make it obvious there was no room for the revolution. https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/757025206997168128 She also invited him to join the Green Party. The Hill's lede on Twitter: "Jill Stein invites Sanders to join the Green Party and "continue his revolution" http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288987-green-party-candidate-sanders-should-leave-the-party-that IF he decides to do that when he speaks at the DNC... ROTF! The "revolution" starts NOW! (Steve Earle, the Musical Marxist said that) This is a good version (Occupied Wall Street): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPZJIuCTdNM Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4991 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 22:20:51 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 22:20:51 -0700 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> Message-ID: <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> On 07/23/2016 10:05 PM, Mirimir wrote: > On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: > > > >> Thank you, Rayzer! >> It's extremely important to purify the True Islamic Religion/Quran from all >> the garbage the western fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. > Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off anarchocapitalism. > > > > Like Christianity... It doesn't HAVE TO be capitalist but note point 5. "It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times..." Contemporary times is Crapitalist times, and organized religions, for better or worse, will go with that flow. As little as I like organized religions they ARE a vehicle for moving masses of people in a given direction. Too bad psychopaths take over just as surely as they take over corporations and any other organizational structure. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sat Jul 23 22:05:03 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 23:05:03 -0600 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: > Thank you, Rayzer! > It's extremely important to purify the True Islamic Religion/Quran from all > the garbage the western fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off anarchocapitalism. From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 23 20:10:40 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 03:10:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Democrat National Committee gets leaked. References: <986469847.4440458.1469329840687.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <986469847.4440458.1469329840687.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703873/Does-believe-God-Wikileaks-releases-hacked-emails-eve-Hillary-s-convention-one-reveals-plan-story-Bernie-never-act-raise-questions-faith.html I am so absolutely overjoyed that somebody released these 19,000+ Democrat National Committee emails, showing that they were and are trying to sabotage Sanders' primary campaign.  If there is a way to destroy a political party, this is certainly it.  And the one about trying to get Bernie Sanders to state he's an atheist, because that would bother the Southern Baptists worse than if he were Jewish, that's clearly an example of making just about everyone angry at the same time.  Wonderful act!  Even better timing!   Maybe the Democrats (and the Republicans as well) will begin to appreciate the value of good encryption. If anybody out there is old enough to remember the 1968 Democrat Convention in Chicago, which turned into a "police riot", maybe we will see a repeat 48 years later. I will, of course, be voting for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson, albeit with a few reservations.  (Only some of which can be seen by doing a Google-search for the words 'Nazi cake').   I utterly detest pandering, even if (especially if!) done by people identifying themselves as libertarians..                   Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2666 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Sun Jul 24 02:14:39 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 03:14:39 -0600 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> On 07/23/2016 11:20 PM, Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/23/2016 10:05 PM, Mirimir wrote: >> On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: >> >> >> >>> Thank you, Rayzer! It's extremely important to purify the True >>> Islamic Religion/Quran from all the garbage the western >>> fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. >> Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off >> anarchocapitalism. >> >> >> >> > > Like Christianity... It doesn't HAVE TO be capitalist but note > point 5. "It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of > contemporary times..." Contemporary times is Crapitalist times, and > organized religions, for better or worse, will go with that flow. I think that there's market-based stuff in Islam that predates Western capitalism. There's also a lot that anticipates socialism. Building on Christianity. I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone global before Christianity did. > As little as I like organized religions they ARE a vehicle for > moving masses of people in a given direction. Too bad psychopaths > take over just as surely as they take over corporations and any > other organizational structure. Yes, too bad :( From afalex169 at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 21:35:15 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:35:15 +0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2016-07-23 21:39 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : > Hi Zeenan... > > You never DID get back to me about where you got that perverse > interpolation of some salafist screed about the rules of Goat-Fucking, > sweetheart. > > Here are some references. > > The basic tenets of the religion of hate analyzed... > > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoEZh2JWcAAgj7E.jpg:large > > > Also see: Open Letter to al-Bagdadi and ISIS by Muslim scholars from > around the world. > > http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/islam/page/2 > > 1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary > learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory > as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a > portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling > without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related > to that matter. > > In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites > for fatwas , and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal > arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith . > > > 2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything > without mastery of the Arabic language. > > 3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore > established Islamic sciences. > > 4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, > except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know. > > 5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times > when deriving legal rulings. > > 6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent. > > 7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and > diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers. > > 8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the > right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct. > > 9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or > she) openly declares disbelief. > > 10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians > or any ‘People of the Scripture’. > > 11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture. > > 12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was > abolished by universal consensus. > > 13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert. > > 14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights. > > 15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights. > > 16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud ) without > following the correct procedures that ensure justice and mercy. > > 17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people. > > 18 It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead. > > 19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God. > > 20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of > Prophets and Companions. > > 21.Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than > clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray. > > 22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus > from all Muslims. > > 23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam. > > 24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to > emigrate anywhere. > > — > > > Thank you, Rayzer! It's extremely important to purify the True Islamic Religion/Quran from all the garbage the western fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4656 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 24 11:26:02 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:26:02 -0700 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <6c44923c-51ce-8076-9826-a626a6b0f38b@riseup.net> On 07/24/2016 10:53 AM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Islam forbids interest (interest as an economy term), and a bank in > turkey has been taking interest in such a complicated way (i don't > know how, exactly) that it claims they do not take interest and is > halal to attract fundematalist clients :D Islam in many ways does > resemble socialism, but it's still total bullshit in many other ways. > (i say this as an atheist, living in turkey btw) My understanding is the Islamic banks have a 'workaround'. Instead of charging interest you simply owe the loan amount plus whatever the interest is. If you borrow $100 and the interest is 5% you've borrowed $105 dollars. Except for the more extreme fundamentalists, it's been accepted that way for a long time. No one said "point 5" was gonna be easy... Ps. As I was reading Gadaffi's 'Little Green Book' online a while back I noted his ideas had a lot in common with Anarcho-Syndicalism. Rr > > 24.07.2016, 11:38, "Mirimir" : >> >> On 07/23/2016 11:20 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> >> >> On 07/23/2016 10:05 PM, Mirimir wrote: >> >> On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: >> >> >> >> Thank you, Rayzer! It's extremely important to purify >> the True >> Islamic Religion/Quran from all the garbage the western >> fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. >> >> Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off >> anarchocapitalism. >> >> >> >> >> >> Like Christianity... It doesn't HAVE TO be capitalist but note >> point 5. "It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of >> contemporary times..." Contemporary times is Crapitalist times, and >> organized religions, for better or worse, will go with that flow. >> >> >> I think that there's market-based stuff in Islam that predates Western >> capitalism. There's also a lot that anticipates socialism. Building on >> Christianity. I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone >> global before Christianity did. >> >> As little as I like organized religions they ARE a vehicle for >> moving masses of people in a given direction. Too bad psychopaths >> take over just as surely as they take over corporations and any >> other organizational structure. >> >> >> Yes, too bad :( >> > > > -- > /You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are > nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger./ > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3940 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 23 18:54:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:54:34 +1000 Subject: some nuance by OpenDemocracy.net on Russian journalism/ state coercion over it Message-ID: <20160724015434.GY23291@x220-a02> Some may find this interesting as it brings a little nuance to the old meme of "the Russian state censors Russian media with a heavy hand". Russian journalism’s double white lines Ilya Yablokov 22 July 2016 https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/ilya-yablokov/russian-media-s-double-white-lines From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 23 20:22:37 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 13:22:37 +1000 Subject: the West - in a state of complete self-negation, lost, confused, angry Message-ID: <20160724032237.GB23291@x220-a02> Russia's New Conservative Allies in the US: The 'Alt-Right' Phenomenon For those that have been paying attention, the rise of the Alt-Right is as surprising, as it is entirely expected http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/unexpected-ally-russia-emerges-west-its-known-alt-right/ri15784 AND, a NEW phrase - "ethno-masochism" :D "especially noticeable in higher education, where students are taught to believe there is something uniquely oppressive in being a straight male, something uniquely oppressive in being of European descent, something particularly deplorable about being straight…... and on it goes" "It has come to the point where it is easier to come out publically to polite society as a Tranny than it is to come out as a Trump supporter." Hate speech raids in Germany: http://www.thelocal.de/20160713/german-police-launch-first-nationwide-hate-speech-raids and plenty more ... "cultural strength" for the "white fella" (as we Aussies say), your day has come :) From sswalow at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 11:13:23 2016 From: sswalow at gmail.com (swalow swalow) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 14:13:23 -0400 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: How's the situation in Turkey? On Jul 24, 2016 2:01 PM, "Bastiani Fortress" wrote: > > Islam forbids interest (interest as an economy term), and a bank in turkey has been taking interest in such a complicated way (i don't know how, exactly) that it claims they do not take interest and is halal to attract fundematalist clients :D Islam in many ways does resemble socialism, but it's still total bullshit in many other ways. (i say this as an atheist, living in turkey btw) > > 24.07.2016, 11:38, "Mirimir" : >> >> On 07/23/2016 11:20 PM, Rayzer wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 07/23/2016 10:05 PM, Mirimir wrote: >>>> >>>> On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thank you, Rayzer! It's extremely important to purify the True >>>>> Islamic Religion/Quran from all the garbage the western >>>>> fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. >>>> >>>> Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off >>>> anarchocapitalism. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Like Christianity... It doesn't HAVE TO be capitalist but note >>> point 5. "It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of >>> contemporary times..." Contemporary times is Crapitalist times, and >>> organized religions, for better or worse, will go with that flow. >> >> >> I think that there's market-based stuff in Islam that predates Western >> capitalism. There's also a lot that anticipates socialism. Building on >> Christianity. I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone >> global before Christianity did. >> >>> As little as I like organized religions they ARE a vehicle for >>> moving masses of people in a given direction. Too bad psychopaths >>> take over just as surely as they take over corporations and any >>> other organizational structure. >> >> >> Yes, too bad :( >> > > > -- > You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3302 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 11:34:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:34:41 -0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> Message-ID: <57950971.7c33c80a.9de78.3d87@mx.google.com> On Sat, 23 Jul 2016 23:05:03 -0600 Mirimir wrote: > On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: > > > > > Thank you, Rayzer! > > It's extremely important to purify the True Islamic Religion/Quran > > from all the garbage the western fuckers/crazy extremists have put > > on it. > > Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off anarchocapitalism. If you take the religious bullshit out of sick jokes like kkkristianity, jewism and islam, what's left, exactly? I daresay, nothing. As to 'anarchocapitalism' having anything to do with islam or similar criminal organizations, well that doesn't speak too well of 'anarchocapitalism' does it. > > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 11:57:22 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:57:22 -0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:53:38 +0200 Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Islam in many ways does > resemble socialism, but it's still total bullshit in many other ways. As if socialism wasn't total bullshit, ha ha ha. From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 24 18:06:07 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:06:07 -0700 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> On 07/24/2016 02:14 AM, Mirimir wrote: > I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone global before Christianity did. The Persian civilization spawned three major religions: Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism (which heavily influenced Saint Augustine before he turned to Christianity), and the Bahá'í Faith. They even contributed greatly to Islam. Another religion that arose from ancient Iran is Mazdakism, which has been dubbed the first communistic ideology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people#Religion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazdak > On 07/23/2016 11:20 PM, Rayzer wrote: >> >> On 07/23/2016 10:05 PM, Mirimir wrote: >>> On 07/23/2016 10:35 PM, Александр wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Thank you, Rayzer! It's extremely important to purify the True >>>> Islamic Religion/Quran from all the garbage the western >>>> fuckers/crazy extremists have put on it. >>> Except for the religious bullshit, it's not far off >>> anarchocapitalism. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Like Christianity... It doesn't HAVE TO be capitalist but note >> point 5. "It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of >> contemporary times..." Contemporary times is Crapitalist times, and >> organized religions, for better or worse, will go with that flow. > I think that there's market-based stuff in Islam that predates Western > capitalism. There's also a lot that anticipates socialism. Building on > Christianity. I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone > global before Christianity did. > >> As little as I like organized religions they ARE a vehicle for >> moving masses of people in a given direction. Too bad psychopaths >> take over just as surely as they take over corporations and any >> other organizational structure. > Yes, too bad :( > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2859 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jul 24 15:21:07 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:21:07 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sig hell! >--Lauren-- >Lauren Weinstein >(lauren at vortex.com): http://www.vortex.com/lauren >Founder: > - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org > - PRIVACY Forum: >http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info >Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: >http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info >Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy >Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com >Google+: >http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein >Twitter: >http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein >Tel: +1 (818) >225-2800 / Skype: vortex.com >I have consulted to Google, but I am not currently >doing so -- my opinions expressed here are mine alone. >_______________________________________________ >pfir mailing list >http://lists.pfir.org/mailman/listinfo/pfir From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 14:59:36 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:59:36 -0300 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My dear Lauren (bcc), Did I mention how much I love you today? It's a strange coincidence, but I love you even more when I can use your messages to annoy Putin fans in public lists! :D Lots of tender kisses, hihi! :* Ceci (yep, always a troll, but I am a very cute troll, less boring than Putin fans, hihi! *-*) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" < pfir at pfir.org> Date: Jul 24, 2016 6:34 PM Subject: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release To: > Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email > release > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-campaign--and-some-cyber-experts--say-russia-is-behind-email-release/2016/07/24/5b5428e6-51a8-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html > > A top official with Hillary Clinton's campaign on Sunday > accused the Russian government of orchestrating the release of > damaging Democratic Party records in order to help the campaign of > Republican Donald Trump -- and some cyber security experts in the > U.S. > and overseas agree. The extraordinary charge came as some national > security officials have been growing increasingly concerned about > possible efforts by Russia to meddle in the election, according to > several individuals familiar with the situation. > > - - - > > Murderous dictator Putin wants a fellow dictator in the White House, > whom he can manipulate like a puppet and rebuild the Soviet Union. He > knows that Trump admires vicious dictators and their methods, and > loves Putin in particular. Putin knows that Trump would make the > perfect patsy. Trump's business dealings in Russia are deep -- and his > campaign manager has long worked with dictators in Russia and > elsewhere. Meanwhile at the GOP convention last week, the platform was > changed into a pro-Russia love-fest, leaving the countries that Putin > has crushed or wants to crush at his mercy. And Trump says if NATO > countries won't pay whatever extortion Trump demands, he'll just let > them be taken by Putin. Get the picture? > > --Lauren-- > Lauren Weinstein (lauren at vortex.com): http://www.vortex.com/lauren > Founder: > - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org > - PRIVACY Forum: http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info > Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: > http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info > Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > Google+: http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein > Twitter: http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein > Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 / Skype: vortex.com > I have consulted to Google, but I am not currently > doing so -- my opinions expressed here are mine alone. > _______________________________________________ > pfir mailing list > http://lists.pfir.org/mailman/listinfo/pfir > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4447 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 15:30:21 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:30:21 -0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <518241469397572@web30h.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> <518241469397572@web30h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <579540ae.cf27370a.d390e.63cb@mx.google.com> On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:59:32 +0200 Bastiani Fortress wrote: > oh come on :) > >--- > You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are > nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. I was about to ask if that was a turkish saying, but after searching, I see it's a quote from kafka. Unsurprisingly, the meaning isn't too clear =P But yeah, I am a stranger, and also a 'citizen of the world'? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 15:39:29 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:39:29 -0300 Subject: some nuance by OpenDemocracy.net on Russian journalism/ state coercion over it In-Reply-To: <20160724015434.GY23291@x220-a02> References: <20160724015434.GY23291@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579542d8.4431ed0a.58a86.5202@mx.google.com> On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:54:34 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Some may find this interesting as it brings a little nuance to the old > meme of "the Russian state censors Russian media with a heavy hand". What I gather from the article is that journalists in russia are fully corrupt, and the few who are not corrupt get fired. Which is what the author wants to convey anyway? So it turns out that journalism in russia is as corrupt as it is in any other country on the planet. Hardly surprising at all. > > Russian journalism’s double white lines > Ilya Yablokov 22 July 2016 > https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/ilya-yablokov/russian-media-s-double-white-lines From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 10:53:38 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:53:38 +0200 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2229 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 15:55:44 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:55:44 -0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <145711469397185@web10h.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> <145711469397185@web10h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: On Jul 24, 2016 7:01 PM, "Bastiani Fortress" wrote: > > We even fear to make jokes in whatsapp, rumor has it that policemen ask to see your phone too when they do a routine check at the city center. Please, consider using Signal or Telegram instead whatsapp. I will test Wire this week for fun. They are not totally secure apps, but certainly are a bit better than whatsapp. I am a fan of Durov brothers' work, but I am still waiting for an answer about this security fail for curiosity: https://twitter.com/telegram_macos/status/756989757801005057?p=v I don't know about migration to Europe as you asked in another thread, but if the things become worst in Ankara, maybe could you consider to know Brazil in person? I am not interesting, but my neighbour is the always charming Juan! :P I always say things like "Thank God I am Atheist!", but I sincerely try to respect people's faith and, even considering God's existence very uncertain, I always ask to God protect my loved ones. It isn't a logical thing, but I feel more comfortable because I know I can't protect my family and my friends in all the moments. Hope God, if exists, can love and feel compassion for every single person in this crazy world. I have Muslim friends and I was very frustrated yesterday because I've found a Brazilian Telegram group saying awful, disgusting things about the Islamism. All the religions are about love. There are crazy radical people in all the religions and being a Christian doesn't mean anything. It was very disgusting seeing so many people using Jesus and the Bible as excuses to offend and to attack other persons, aff... :(( Take care, my dear! Warm straight hugs and my best wishes of inner peace and hope! Be strong! :* Ceci -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jul 24 16:58:19 2016 From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:58:19 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Long sigs indicate the writer has forgotten what is automatically inserted after the nym, or wishes to disavow vanity when it is no longer needed to overcome depression and self-loathing with narcissim of outdated accomplishments. Ads for oneself with every message is the root cause of climate change and the rise of terrorism and wretchedly inept comsec. Schneier's Crypto-gram the most bloated adverselfie, SM nothing but fatuous sigs. Cypherpunks, OTOH, is pure hygienic content, never a cross word pustule. At 07:07 PM 7/24/2016, you wrote: >On Jul 24, 2016 7:27 PM, "John Young" ><jya at pipeline.com> wrote: > > > > Sig hell! > >Hmm... Sorry, if you are trying to offend my >friend, the correct expression is "Sieg Heil"... :P > >Well, he doesn't deserve it, but "Sig hell" is >more offensive because it's wrong twice... :P From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 16:07:36 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 20:07:36 -0300 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 24, 2016 7:27 PM, "John Young" wrote: > > Sig hell! Hmm... Sorry, if you are trying to offend my friend, the correct expression is "Sieg Heil"... :P Well, he doesn't deserve it, but "Sig hell" is more offensive because it's wrong twice... :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 17:57:42 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 21:57:42 -0300 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jul 24, 2016 9:04 PM, "John Young" wrote: > > Cypherpunks, OTOH, is pure hygienic content, never a cross word pustule. Hygienic content. Thanks for the information, good to know it. I was lurking here for few years and never perceived it. Well, at least, I am not the only slow person here, hihi! ;) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 412 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 18:56:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 22:56:27 -0300 Subject: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579570fd.a32fc80a.bbc1c.7a12@mx.google.com> On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 18:59:36 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > My dear Lauren (bcc), > > Did I mention how much I love you today? It's a strange coincidence, > but I love you even more when I can use your messages to annoy Putin > fans in public lists! If I were a putin fan I wouldn't find what weinstein says to be annoying, at all. Rather, I'd realize that weinstein repeatedly shoots himself in the foot. What weinstein is saying is that the only people who dared to call out the clinton 'democratic' criminals is wikileaks and the russian government. (oops! a 'conspiracy theory' eh) No one in the US had the decency and the guts to leak stuff about the motherfucking democrats - the russians had to do it. Just how pathetic americans are? "Murderous dictator Putin wants a fellow dictator in the White House, whom he can manipulate like a puppet and rebuild the Soviet Union." OK, so weinstein is mccarthy reborn. Weinstein is a left-wing american fascist, a sick puppet of that murderous cunt clinton, and is having a fit about putin? Pot calling the kettle black. Pot, meet kettle! http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Pot+meet+Kettle :D > > Lots of tender kisses, hihi! :* > > Ceci (yep, always a troll, but I am a very cute troll, less boring > than Putin fans, hihi! *-*) That's a matter of opinion. A left-wing fascist like weinstein to me is both boring and revolting =) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 20:22:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:22:42 -0400 Subject: Comms and Messaging Tools Message-ID: On 7/24/16, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > Please, consider using Signal or Telegram instead whatsapp. I will test > Wire this week for fun. Tests are fun but user still must compile wide viewpoint on tools and tool itself before using anything to suit appplication. Random search... https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/582916365750669312 https://twitter.com/alyssarowan/status/582244684216561665 https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1177.pdf https://ricochet.im/ https://tox.chat/ https://blogs.fsfe.org/h2/2016/05/31/why-privacy-is-more-than-crypto/ https://danielpocock.com/how-many-mobile-phone-accounts-will-be-hijacked-this-summer > They are not totally secure apps, but certainly are a bit better than > whatsapp. I am a fan of Durov brothers' work, but I am still waiting for > an answer about this security fail for curiosity: > > https://twitter.com/telegram_macos/status/756989757801005057 From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 19:33:40 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:33:40 -0300 Subject: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: <579570fd.a32fc80a.bbc1c.7a12@mx.google.com> References: <579570fd.a32fc80a.bbc1c.7a12@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 24, 2016 11:02 PM, "juan" wrote: > That's a matter of opinion. A left-wing fascist like weinstein to me is both boring and revolting =) I know, haha! I will send you Vegemite because we are so different that you probably will love it, my dear! :)) Ah, I love Lauren, but I know you always will hate great part of my friends or contacts, Juan. (Less my another anarchist friend who lives in Buenos Aires, also hates North America and calls "nasist" my friend who works in NASA, hahaha!! I can't kick him because is a petulant child yet, but he will grow up and my revenge will be terrible: I will send Vegemite for him too, hahaha!!) Live and let live, my dear. But being sincere, I still prefer living in a world without politicals. :) You know I really think Putin and Trump stink more than Vegemite and fermented shark (Iceland typical food) and blue cheese mixed together, ugh ugh ugh!!! :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 19:42:43 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:42:43 -0300 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Off-Topic: Donald Trump's and Vladimir Putin's Shared Agenda Should Alarm Anyone Concerned About Democracy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With Lots Of Love (another kind of LOL, haha!!) for you, my dear Juan! :) I love to annoy you. Take care and have a lovely night, fool. The Fool is Mirimir's favorite tarot card, but mine always will be The World, dear. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "PFIR (People For Internet Responsibility) Announcement List" < pfir at pfir.org> Date: Jul 24, 2016 11:30 PM Subject: [ PFIR ] Off-Topic: Donald Trump's and Vladimir Putin's Shared Agenda Should Alarm Anyone Concerned About Democracy To: Off-Topic: Donald Trump's and Vladimir Putin's Shared Agenda Should Alarm Anyone Concerned About Democracy http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a46984/donald-trump-vladimir-putin/ In brief: In his business dealings, He, Trump seems increasingly dependent on money from Russia and from the former Soviet republics within its increasingly active sphere of influence. This is because most of the big banks on this side of the pond won't go near him without HazMat suits. (Gee, could it be that his sudden emergence as a Warren-esque crusader against the "rigged system" of the banksters is less of a principled opposition and simply pure animal vengeance? Unpossible!) As Marshall points out, this isn't exactly a deep corporate secret ... Marshall presents a judicious but comprehensive bill of indictment as regards He, Trump's relationship with Putin. He doesn't allege direct complicity, only a mutuality of interest that should alarm anyone concerned about the stability of American democracy. He also carefully traces the connections to Russia of several of He, Trump's crucial advisors. (I knew about Paul Manafort's connection to Putin's Ukrainian marionette, but the relationship that Carter Page, one of the campaign's key foreign-policy advisers, to Gazprom, the Russian energy behemoth that Putin controls, was a new one for me.) He shies away from the more baroque conspiracy theories, although I don't think the notion that Russian intelligence was behind the hack-and-release of 20,000 internal DNC e-mails at exactly the right time is that far-fetched. This should be the only story about the Trump campaign until he comes clean. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2927 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 14:53:05 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:53:05 +0200 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <145711469397185@web10h.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4763 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 14:59:32 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 23:59:32 +0200 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <518241469397572@web30h.yandex.ru> oh come on :) 24.07.2016, 21:10, "juan" : > On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 19:53:38 +0200 > Bastiani Fortress wrote: > >>  Islam in many ways does >>  resemble socialism, but it's still total bullshit in many other ways. > >         As if socialism wasn't total bullshit, ha ha ha. --  You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 15:16:09 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 00:16:09 +0200 Subject: Open Phones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <665271469398569@web11o.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 22:28:35 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:28:35 -0300 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <136961469421916@web11g.yandex.ru> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> <518241469397572@web30h.yandex.ru> <579540ae.cf27370a.d390e.63cb@mx.google.com> <136961469421916@web11g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <5795a2b7.e736ed0a.4cb89.8c9e@mx.google.com> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 06:45:16 +0200 Bastiani Fortress wrote: > That wasn't intended for you, it's just my signature btw :D Ahaha! Now I look pretty retarded =) - Or some would say, I've revealed my true self... > The > castle of kafka and the tartar steppe of buzzati (bastiani fortress > is a reference to the tartar steppe) are among my favorite novels. I didn't know buzzati - italian - looks interesting. I might try to read something. > > Tendency in this group is towards anarchism, rather than socialism i > guess? Well, that's the case as far as I'm concerned. Socialism may be OK as long it's practised between consenting persons - but it's not my cup of tea... As to the group's party line...there probably are different opinions =P, although I'd expect a sizable amount of cpunks to be free-market anarchists... J. From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 00:17:02 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:17:02 -0400 Subject: Religion in images and words Message-ID: On 7/23/16, Rayzer wrote: > You never DID get back to me about where you got that perverse > interpolation of some salafist screed about the rules of Goat-Fucking, Many proclaimed followers of any particular religion book are exactly hypocritical. Doesn't help that many religion books are flawed in many different ways, many most key of which is reliance upon the unproveable. Under such circumstances, perverse interpolations should be expected and prevalent. > The basic tenets of the religion of hate analyzed... > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoEZh2JWcAAgj7E.jpg:large Mere word count, lacks context, context is everything. > Also see: Open Letter to al-Bagdadi and ISIS by Muslim scholars from > around the world. The best home for religion may be in comparative / religious studies, analyzed and open lettered by those who follow either none or all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions Here are some screeds to keep people busy, don't miss your prayer time and thus burn in hell... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_colonization https://www.youtube.com/results?q=religion+debunked https://www.youtube.com/results?q=richard+dawkins https://www.youtube.com/results?q=molyneux+religion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJkVEnFW5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqw4krMOug Then again, the net has lots more... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTJhsHYDDQ https://www.youtube.com/results?q=richard+dawkins+owned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfYLBzFwFY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwcLEby4w3M Why did you take such great pains to conceal yourself from us? Which god are you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGs_qK2PQA From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 01:54:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 04:54:42 -0400 Subject: UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption In-Reply-To: <578B9F79.7040301@m-o-o-t.org> References: <578B94B5.4010805@m-o-o-t.org> <578B9F79.7040301@m-o-o-t.org> Message-ID: On 7/17/16, Peter Fairbrother wrote: > But you are welcome to read it yourself, it is available at: > > www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0040/17040.pdf >From Nov 2015, but with front and back matter... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/473770/Draft_Investigatory_Powers_Bill.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/publications https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/investigatory-powers-bill http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/investigatorypowers.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/07/iocco_on_s94/ The Interception of Communications Commissioner’s Office (IOCCO) has today published its 55-page review (PDF) of secret directions given under section 94 of the Telecommunications Act 1984. The OP headline suffices.... "UK gov says new Home Sec will have powers to ban end-to-end encryption Amber Rudd yet to emerge from blanket of ministerial double-speak." Secrets upon secrets, never good for humanity, only for the keepers. From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 01:57:48 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 04:57:48 -0400 Subject: The Power Of Irradiating Ourselves Message-ID: Free power of course... https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/07/14/2049246/cleanspace-co-sensor-runs-on-freevolt-rf-harvesting A few years ago, a Kickstarter was set up to develop a locator tag powered by free radio frequency (RF) energy harvested from the environment. This was called a scam here on Slashdot and was shut down before it was funded on Kickstarter. However, it now appears that the concept is not as far-fetched as some predicted. A UK company CleanSpace has developed a carbon monoxide (CO) sensor which is powered by free RF. A review of the product has been posted on YouTube. It uses Freevolt technology to keep a battery charged and the CO sensor running. Since they have several thousand of these devices collecting data, they do appear to work and it seems to be in the 'not a scam' department. From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 02:06:27 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 05:06:27 -0400 Subject: Tech Bashes Trump Message-ID: https://shift.newco.co/an-open-letter-from-technology-sector-leaders-on-donald-trumps-candidacy-for-president-5bf734c159e4 We are inventors, entrepreneurs, engineers, investors, researchers, and business leaders working in the technology sector. We are proud that American innovation is the envy of the world, a source of widely-shared prosperity, and a hallmark of our global leadership. We believe in an inclusive country that fosters opportunity, creativity and a level playing field. Donald Trump does not. He campaigns on anger, bigotry, fear of new ideas and new people, and a fundamental belief that America is weak and in decline. We have listened to Donald Trump over the past year and we have concluded: Trump would be a disaster for innovation. His vision stands against the open exchange of ideas, free movement of people, and productive engagement with the outside world that is critical to our economy — and that provide the foundation for innovation and growth. ... From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 02:32:00 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 05:32:00 -0400 Subject: Fw: Sex, onions and CIA In-Reply-To: <20160725083834.GG17859@x220-a02> References: <20160725083834.GG17859@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 7/25/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > (assuming that most nettimers don't wade in the dark pastebin swamps) > (for the related CIA agent inside Tor story, see > http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 ) Many people don't wade in dark swamps, even this one that doesn't have people has topic... http://sixteen7iuqazme7.onion/tor/ http://pastebin.com/Y49pubYn The amount of muck you could mine from chan and IRC with a good engine... is limitless. There's probably a whole department at NSA dedicated to eating raw sewage. Odds are there's more than a few diamonds in those tubes... From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 02:38:01 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 05:38:01 -0400 Subject: US Bipartisan Defend Fourth Amendment Message-ID: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/07/bipartisan-caucus-launches-house-defend-fourth-amendment On matters implicating privacy, such as mass surveillance or the powers of investigatory agencies, Congress has too often failed to fulfill its responsibilities. By neglecting to examine basic facts, and deferring to executive agencies whose secrets preclude meaningful debate, the body has allowed proposals that undermine constitutional rights to repeatedly become enshrined in law. In last week’s launch of a new bipartisan Fourth Amendment Caucus in the House, however, the Constitution has gained a formidable ally. lol. From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 21:45:16 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 06:45:16 +0200 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <579540ae.cf27370a.d390e.63cb@mx.google.com> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <209521469382818@web8g.yandex.ru> <57950ec1.2d3ced0a.128e5.3a8d@mx.google.com> <518241469397572@web30h.yandex.ru> <579540ae.cf27370a.d390e.63cb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <136961469421916@web11g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1227 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Mon Jul 25 05:54:51 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 06:54:51 -0600 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <20160725124521.GE42070@synfin.org> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <20160725124244.GD42070@synfin.org> <20160725124521.GE42070@synfin.org> Message-ID: <57960C1B.3060500@riseup.net> On 07/25/2016 06:45 AM, John Newman wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 08:42:44AM -0400, John Newman wrote: >> You should check out the When Gravity Falls trilogy by George >> Effinger, classic cyberpunk written in the late 80s... > > Correction: book is called "When Gravity Fails" Thanks, I will :) From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 24 21:57:36 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 06:57:36 +0200 Subject: Dying BlackBerry Tows Govt Line On Crypto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <456831469422656@web23m.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2505 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 03:18:13 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 07:18:13 -0300 Subject: From conspiracy theorists/ factists, to "Putin's useful idiots" In-Reply-To: <20160725085914.GI17859@x220-a02> References: <20160725085914.GI17859@x220-a02> Message-ID: On Jul 25, 2016 6:09 AM, "Zenaan Harkness" wrote: > > The MSM - drumming home meme after meme: > > Presenting "Putin's Useful Idiot": Anyone Who Disagrees With The Establishment Uff... When I think the 4chan's old "Poo Poo Pee Pee" series, with Smug Pepe, were the most offensive and unethical memes in the world... :(( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 25 05:42:44 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 08:42:44 -0400 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160725124244.GD42070@synfin.org> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 03:14:39AM -0600, Mirimir wrote: > I think that there's market-based stuff in Islam that predates Western > capitalism. There's also a lot that anticipates socialism. Building on > Christianity. I sometimes wonder where we'd be if Islam had gone > global before Christianity did. You should check out the When Gravity Falls trilogy by George Effinger, classic cyberpunk written in the late 80s... Very reminescent of Gibson's sprawl stuff, except the central conceit is that Western society has collapsed and the Islamic countries have come to dominance. Its been a while since I've read them, and obviously they are just as dated as Neuromancer, but I think the books hold up pretty well... (Neuromancer still holds up quite well, IMO).. John From jnn at synfin.org Mon Jul 25 05:45:21 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 08:45:21 -0400 Subject: For ZH.... The religion of hate in one image and a few words In-Reply-To: <20160725124244.GD42070@synfin.org> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <20160725124244.GD42070@synfin.org> Message-ID: <20160725124521.GE42070@synfin.org> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 08:42:44AM -0400, John Newman wrote: > You should check out the When Gravity Falls trilogy by George > Effinger, classic cyberpunk written in the late 80s... Correction: book is called "When Gravity Fails" -- John From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 24 17:22:28 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:22:28 +1000 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160725002228.GA17859@x220-a02> Sig heil indeed :) On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 06:21:07PM -0400, John Young wrote: > Sig hell! > > >--Lauren-- > >Lauren Weinstein (lauren at vortex.com): > >http://www.vortex.com/lauren > >Founder: > > - Network Neutrality Squad: http://www.nnsquad.org > > - PRIVACY Forum: > >http://www.vortex.com/privacy-info > >Co-Founder: People For Internet Responsibility: > >http://www.pfir.org/pfir-info > >Member: ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy > >Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com > >Google+: > >http://google.com/+LaurenWeinstein > >Twitter: > >http://twitter.com/laurenweinstein > >Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 / Skype: > >vortex.com > >I have consulted to Google, but I am not currently > >doing so -- my opinions expressed here are mine alone. > >_______________________________________________ > >pfir mailing list > >http://lists.pfir.org/mailman/listinfo/pfir From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 24 17:58:11 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 10:58:11 +1000 Subject: A Sense of Historical Guilt Prevents Germans From Coping with Terrorism Message-ID: <20160725005811.GB17859@x220-a02> This is a personal reflection/ polemic by a 2nd generation Russian born and bred in Germany: "I am the daughter of a veteran of WWII, a Soviet soldier who fought fascism with his own hands, and yet I have a guilt complex because I’m German. That’s the problem." A Sense of Historical Guilt Prevents Germans From Coping with Terrorism Even 3rd generation emigrants have a weird identity as German speaking aliens Xenia Zinoviev The author is a RI correspondent born in Munich and daughter of Alexander Zinoviev, the Soviet political exile who spent 21 years in Germany before returning to Russia in 1999 in protest against NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/sense-historical-guilt-prevents-germans-coping-terrorism/ri15802 From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 24 18:15:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:15:33 +1000 Subject: far from being the problem, Muslims could hold the solution to radicalism In-Reply-To: <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160725011533.GC17859@x220-a02> France, possibly, begins to wake up on this one: France opens up its eyes to Salafism, rethinks counterterrorism https://www.rt.com/op-edge/352975-salafism-france-terror-muslims/ " Could it be that France has just blown the whistle on Salafism, and finally anchored its counter-terrorism narrative against not Islam, but the devolution which has worked to hijack its Scriptures and redact its principles? " From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 25 04:47:47 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 14:47:47 +0300 Subject: Tech Bashes Trump In-Reply-To: <20160725095038.GK17859@x220-a02> References: <20160725095038.GK17859@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160725114747.GA1892@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:50:38PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 05:06:27AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://shift.newco.co/an-open-letter-from-technology-sector-leaders-on-donald-trumps-candidacy-for-president-5bf734c159e4 > > So Hillary Clinton compared Russian president Vladimir Putin to Hitler - > Putin struck back in 2014 with the sexist put down "it’s better not to > argue with women". > lol. Better wording would be "it's better to not argue with mad bitches in menstruation (if any)". Maybe the KGB advised him this is not very diplomatic. On the other hand, if comrade Trump wins the lottery, IMHO the murican collapse will come in at most half year after the lottery. > My god! That nasty, nasty chauvanist bastard! How dare he! > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648950/Maybe-weakness-not-worst-quality-woman-Vladimir-Putins-incredibly-sexist-Hillary-Clinton.html > > > May be soon it'll be Hillary Clinton who's "Putin's useful idiot"... From guninski at guninski.com Mon Jul 25 05:29:28 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 15:29:28 +0300 Subject: Open Phones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160725122928.GB1892@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 04:28:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > New model closed source iPhones go for $700+. > I'd happily pay $1k+ for an open phone if it used an open > community designed baseband chip, ran a real unix, and > was hopefully modular repairable / upgradeable even if > bulkier version... the hackerspace of phones. > Well, Tor appears to me partial counterexample to "the theory of many eyes". Even if the chip is community designed, do you really know what "the community is?". Who audited it? Also, the implementation must be exactly what is designed. Can't find reference ATM, but pretty sure I read that faulty NAND gates can compromise a lot of things (crypto too), while the metal appears to work as designed. How do you verify a chip is what is claimed to be? Maybe peel it, take snapshots and then reverse engineer the wiring/gates and compare to the source (VHDL?) ? As for phones, I don't keep anything of importance on them and consider them compromised. Might not work for you. From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 01:38:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:38:34 +1000 Subject: Fw: Sex, onions and CIA Message-ID: <20160725083834.GG17859@x220-a02> ----- Forwarded message from 41x1sy+e6f8r3fbkbc08 at guerrillamail.com ----- Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2016 18:27:39 +0000 From: 41x1sy+e6f8r3fbkbc08 at guerrillamail.com To: "nettime-l at mail.kein.org" Subject: Sex, onions and CIA (assuming that most nettimers don't wade in the dark pastebin swamps) (for the related CIA agent inside Tor story, see http://pastebin.com/WPAmqkW8 ) ONLY BACKGROUND. NOT FOR PUBLICATION. I am in the security community and work on Tor. There are number of facts behind the campaign to destroy Jake that I know of. Some are personal. Some are political. Some are cultural. 1) the US government is responsible for the majority of Tor financing. This funding stream was put at risk by Jake's publication of NSA documentation in Der Spiegel and his cooperation with WikiLeaks and the CCC. Jake's constant mention of WikiLeaks and Snowden to use Tor was also an important irritation. 2) Shari's appointment as the Executive Director of Tor; the entrance of Alison Macrina 3) Jake's internal opposition to Tor hiring a CIA contractor last year. This is still not public knowledge 4) The rise of the "micro-aggression/trigger/safe space/victim" American subculture 5) A sexual culture clash between Germany and the United States; the regular use of MDMA in the Berlin scene 6) Jake, although a vulnerable person in broader US society, has "rockstar" social capital in a subculture with scarce resources (women, prestige, finance) 7) The creeping "NGO"ization of Tor 8) Old enemies and rivals of Jake trying to payback; Jake has slept with hundreds of women and men. Some he has not kept good relations with. There are many envious sexually unsuccessful men, angry lovers & their partners and professional & political rivals. Over time, in this small pond and its extended community, they found each other and formed a bloc to "Jake destroy". 9) Jake has an extreme attention seeking, exhibitionist personality; He often uses sexual jokes or sexual swagger to attract attention and leaps on the spotlight. Roger's strategy was to allow Jake to take the light so that others were safe in obscurity. The three main reasons why the US government fund Tor are (1) so ​​people in China and Iran have access to US propaganda sites (2) for its spies to conduct hacking attacks (GCHQ Snowden docs show Tor as part of the GCHQ attack suite (3)to cover the traces of US agents surfing sites. Jake has been a threat to Tor financing for years and is seen as such within Tor and espcially by Shari. His flashy work in Der Spiegel with NSA docs and collaboration with Snowden, WikiLeaks & Poitras drove people mad with fear and jealousy. Jake caused hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of funding problems in past years and financing fears until his resignation. For several years people have looked for a way to get him out. Jacob stayed in the DPRK and Cuba earlier this year, which must have increased concern for Tor funding. Last year Jake internally outed an attempted CIA hiring. This also caused bad blood between Jake and those those who supported the hiring. Nick Farr also was a paid hacking consultant for the CIA. Roger interned at the NSA and his wife has a security clearance and accepted money from DARPA/Pentagon to de-anonymize people. Although it is not considered within Tor that Roger is a risk, he is comfortable with these close links with intelligence power, which is a risk if it is the standard for Tor staff. That the US government is happy for Shari and Roger's spouses to have security clearances is also unsettling. It is publicly known that Shari husband worked for the Pentagon (he is quoted in Forbes as previous tech director for DoD). People in Tor say that he worked for the NSA on the XKeyscore mass interception system. He is now officially a VP at Amazon, but it is said he still advises the government. Andrea has false rape accusations in the past including about a journalist from Pando. She is also an exhibitionist. Meredith Patterson has a campaign to get Jake to commit suicide. She has a long-standing feud with Jake and used it distract from her own role in pushing her husband Len to suicide. Most people in Tor believe that Meredith or Andrea are behind the "@TimeToDieJake" account (which became "@VictimsOfJake"). On June 13, it tweeted "@ioerror Tick tock. Looking forward to the days ahead? We are. But don't worry. There's an easy way out. Just ask Len." Andrea and Meridith are girlfriends / lovers. Andrea was born male must as flashy "side with women" to gain acceptance. Both are exhibitionists. The mad Meredith, cheered by Andrea, took an actual hammer to lunge at Englishman "Sam the Techie" at a 2013 summer camp. The cause was sexual allegation gossip. Then they defamed him together with another heavy exhibitionist griefer "Asher Wolf". They made him a pariah and drove him from the "community". He disappeared in 2014 and was last seen with a lost mind, homeless. They feel untouchable power from this. Isis is jealous of credit for Tor development and angry about Jake's rejection. She is also an ideological player and majored in feminist theory. In Tor it is believed that Isis up the attack site. Alison ("Sam") is the centralizer for "victims". She collects and massages stories. Alison, a new addition to the Tor, is a "female Jake" very promiscuous, socially dominant, sex on the table, and a Tor evangelist. She only had Jake in the way of her becoming Jake. The Texas lawyer who wrote the first so-called "analysis" of Jake's statement is Alison's lover (she admits on Twitter). Many who support the action, if the reasons are not obvious, are the lovers of Alison or others. A fake address, jacobappelbaum at yandex.ru was created and pushed the fake website to tor-talk mailing list (the message is still there) during the initial attack launch. Recent reviews for Poitras' "risk" were very flattering to Jacob, driving rivalries. Many people were getting jealous of Jake basking in limelight, especially some of the newer Tor developers who felt he was showered with credit for their hard work. They did not accept Roger's strategy. The media often misreported that Jake was the "lead" Tor developer which angered them; he developed very little. The attack is a serious attempt, abetted by bad media to make Jake look like a serial rapist with language and semantic tricks. They conflate "incidents" of plagiarism, propositioning, telling off-color jokes or violations of privacy with a single incident of alleged "rape" to falsely suggest there is a dozen. There is only one claim where the allegation, if true, can be categorized as any kind of "rape". An anonymous Internet post by "River" claims that Jake had sex with her in front of others when she was intoxicated when she had previously indicated she wanted to have sex, but privately. Nasty gossip about women is spread by the women in the Tor community. Alison had her own affair with Jake so "River" was a rival. Alison and others tried to diminish her sexual social value by spreading gossip that she had sex with Jake in front of others. Sexual competition between the women in the enlarged Tor community is hard and sneaky. While there is an oversupply of men, giving women sexual power and entitlement, there is a severe undersupply of handsome sane men. Globe-trotting charismatic hacker rebels have to no in-group pressure to marry. Freedom is more virtuous than stability. A few months later (as indicated in the post) River came to say that after speaking to others she understood that Jake had "raped" her. This helped to counter the (mostly false) gossip that she was a "slut". The new narrative: that she was the victim of drug and sexual predation. Whatever the truth of the assertions of this incident, it has been proven that those campaigning against Jake have outrageously used this single anonymous claim of conditional consent rape without evidence or witnesses to paint him to be the raper of a dozen. Ironically, it is those with a reputation for promiscuity, like Alison, who are they most aggressive spreaders of sexual gossip. Why? Becuase spreading sexual gossip about a female reduces her social-sexual value (which is still often linked to sexual scarcity). This undermines not only the competition, but also makes life easier for the really promiscuous, because it gives rise to the false impression that female promiscuity is the norm. Women are angry when they manage to track down the source of sexual gossip about them. But the socially manipulative gossips in the Tor comunity, including Allison and Jillian York EFF (also called highly promiscuous and the central player in EFF in this saga) have an extremely disingenuous pretext: "concern". Under the fancy dress of "concern" about successive men, they have reduced the sexual-social value of dozens of women that I know of. It is an evil thing. Despite Jake living three years in exile in Germany, it is Americans that express discomfort. There is an incestuous connection of people between EFF, Tor & FPF; Shari was Executive Director of EFF is now on the board of the EFF and has become the Executive Director of Tor. Tor was an EFF project. Trevor Timm is now FPF Executive Director but was at EFF. York and many other anti-Jake people are at EFF; some have even made public anti-Jake statements. However EFF represents Jake as his lawyers. Incredible. Both Tor and EFF have performed in an extremely unprofessional manner. Their spectacular failure is an expression of a cultural and ideological cul-de-sac, where State Department funding and hi-tech pseudo-anarchists embrace the shifting sexual norms of "safe space" Twitter identity politics. The mixuture? It is in their lungs. It fills the air. They are blind. The cannot see their own cultural imperialism. Sad. ----- End forwarded message ----- From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 01:59:14 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 18:59:14 +1000 Subject: From conspiracy theorists/ factists, to "Putin's useful idiots" Message-ID: <20160725085914.GI17859@x220-a02> The MSM - drumming home meme after meme: Presenting "Putin's Useful Idiot": Anyone Who Disagrees With The Establishment http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/presenting-putins-useful-idiot-anyone-who-disagrees-establishment/ri15808 From rayzer at riseup.net Mon Jul 25 19:05:23 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:05:23 -0700 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote: > howdy, > > for those not sabotaging this list with noise, but wanting to hack on/with some > crypto you might find this implementation of the axolotl protocol using > nacl/libsodium entertaining: https://github.com/stef/libsaxolotl > > happy hacking,s > If you mean my posts I have two words for you. Fuck off. If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They still apply. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 02:45:29 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:45:29 +1000 Subject: Tech Bashes Trump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160725094529.GJ17859@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 05:06:27AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://shift.newco.co/an-open-letter-from-technology-sector-leaders-on-donald-trumps-candidacy-for-president-5bf734c159e4 Given Hitlery Clinton's war creds, I don't think she's the least-worst option - if World War 3 erupts the rest is simply irrelevant. > We are inventors, entrepreneurs, engineers, investors, researchers, > and business leaders working in the technology sector. We are proud > that American innovation is the envy of the world, a source of > widely-shared prosperity, and a hallmark of our global leadership. USA leadership is defined these days by the CIA. Overthrowing sovereign nations - now that's leadership that cannot be ignored. The litany of outsourcing, from North America's industrial base (we've had the same sellout here in Australia) to China, to H1B visa's, the destruction of USA's middle class is all but complete now. This is a very sad thing, and will ultimately affect the 1%ers. [Here in Australia we have a "negative gearing" tax regime on property (land, houses and commercial real estate) and so the middle class is defined by those with real estate assets, since money (fwiw) tends strongly away from entrepreneurial wealth and into real estate.] > We believe in an inclusive country that fosters opportunity, > creativity and a level playing field. Would be nice if that were true. > Donald Trump does not. Can he be much worse than 'the establishment' as represented by Hillary Clinton (even --if-- this statement is true)? > He campaigns on anger, bigotry, fear of new ideas and new people, Trump campaigns on "fear of new ideas"? Now -that's- a new one! > and a fundamental belief that America is weak and in decline. This is true - America is a wounded dragon: http://russia-insider.com/en/american-hegemony-dragon-wounded/ri15797 > We have listened to Donald Trump over the past year and we have > concluded: Trump would be a disaster for innovation. I don't know, but I don't believe this is true. > His vision stands against the open exchange of ideas, That's an intense statement! That needs unpacking to carry any weight with me! > [against] free movement of people, I think his 'wall across Mexico border' ain't gonna be funded regardless - that would be pretty funny if it were ever created :) > and [against] productive engagement with the outside world Yeah? This is sounding ... political, at this point, rather than factual. > that is > critical to our economy — and that provide the foundation for > innovation and growth. ... From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 02:50:38 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 19:50:38 +1000 Subject: Tech Bashes Trump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160725095038.GK17859@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 05:06:27AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://shift.newco.co/an-open-letter-from-technology-sector-leaders-on-donald-trumps-candidacy-for-president-5bf734c159e4 So Hillary Clinton compared Russian president Vladimir Putin to Hitler - Putin struck back in 2014 with the sexist put down "it’s better not to argue with women". My god! That nasty, nasty chauvanist bastard! How dare he! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648950/Maybe-weakness-not-worst-quality-woman-Vladimir-Putins-incredibly-sexist-Hillary-Clinton.html May be soon it'll be Hillary Clinton who's "Putin's useful idiot"... From tedks at riseup.net Mon Jul 25 22:26:45 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:26:45 -0700 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> Message-ID: <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> On 07/25/2016 09:27 PM, Александр wrote: > > On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote: > > *for those not sabotaging this list with noise, * > > 2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer >: > > If you mean my posts I have two words for you. > > *Fuck off.* > > If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They > still apply. > > * > At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of > shitty claims. > *Thank you, Razer! > > I wonder where is our beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, > who repeat themselves like fascist parrots about censoring the list to > the "crypto-shit only"-> sttttop the offtopic "shit". I was reading the code. Do you code, Александр? You should really try to learn, it's a very empowering experience. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2267 bytes Desc: not available URL: From s at ctrlc.hu Mon Jul 25 16:42:00 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 01:42:00 +0200 Subject: libsaxolotl Message-ID: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> howdy, for those not sabotaging this list with noise, but wanting to hack on/with some crypto you might find this implementation of the axolotl protocol using nacl/libsodium entertaining: https://github.com/stef/libsaxolotl happy hacking,s -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From grarpamp at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 23:21:35 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 02:21:35 -0400 Subject: NIST To Ban SMS Two-Factor Auth Message-ID: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html DRAFT NIST Special Publication 800-63B Digital Authentication Guideline Authentication and Lifecycle Management This document and its companion documents, SP 800-63-3, SP 800-63A, and SP 800-63C, provide technical and procedural guidelines to agencies implementing electronic authentication to choose and implement effective authentication processes based on risk. The recommendation covers remote authentication of users (such as employees, contractors, or private individuals) interacting with government IT systems over open networks. It defines technical requirements for each of the three authenticator assurance levels. If the out of band verification is to be made using a SMS message on a public mobile telephone network, the verifier SHALL verify that the pre-registered telephone number being used is actually associated with a mobile network and not with a VoIP (or other software-based) service. It then sends the SMS message to the pre-registered telephone number. Changing the pre-registered telephone number SHALL NOT be possible without two-factor authentication at the time of the change. OOB using SMS is deprecated, and will no longer be allowed in future releases of this guidance. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 22:51:55 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 02:51:55 -0300 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> Message-ID: <5796f9a4.962cc80a.82a44.99fb@mx.google.com> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:26:45 -0700 Ted Smith wrote: > I was reading the code. Does 'the code' solve the underlying political problems? Nope? I thought so. >Do you code, Александр? You should really try > to learn, it's a very empowering experience. It's a nice passtime... From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 00:03:42 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 03:03:42 -0400 Subject: Bitcoin Not Money Says US Judge Message-ID: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91682102.html https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4uizf6/miami_judge_rules_bitcoin_is_not_money/ http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91785802.ece/BINARY/Read%20the%20ruling%20(.PDF) “This court is unwilling to punish a man for selling his property to another, when his actions fall under a statute that is so vaguely written that even legal professionals have difficulty finding a singular meaning,” she wrote. The ruling was lauded by Bitcoin experts who believe the ruling will encourage the use of the virtual currency, and offer a roadmap to governments across the world that have struggled to understand and regulate it. http://livestream.com/internetsociety/hopeconf/videos/130745035 https://news.bitcoin.com/tumbling-bitcoins-guide-rinse-cycle/ http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/amokschuetze-von-muenchen-tatwaffe-aus-dem-darknet-a-1104461.html https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4uczuu/finally_were_there_weapon_for_the_recent_killing/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 00:08:25 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 03:08:25 -0400 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock Message-ID: http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-prison-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives/ https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock-iphone-using-touch-id-in-second-federal-case A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against them. The first time this ever happened in a federal case was back in May, following a District Court ruling in 2014. The legal position of forcing suspects to use their fingerprints to unlock devices won't be known with certainty until a case reaches the U.S. Supreme Court, but lower court rulings so far appear to establish a precedent which is at odds with that concerning passcodes. Most constitutional experts appear to believe that the Fifth Amendment prevents a suspect from being compelled to reveal a password or passcode, as this would amount to forced self-incrimination -- though even this isn't certain. Fingerprints, in contrast, have traditionally been viewed as 'real or physical evidence,' meaning that police are entitled to take them without permission. From bastianifortress at yandex.com Mon Jul 25 22:23:54 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:23:54 +0200 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> Message-ID: <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1727 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 21:27:13 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:27:13 +0300 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> Message-ID: > > On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote: > > *for those not sabotaging this list with noise, * 2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer : > If you mean my posts I have two words for you. > > *Fuck off.* > > If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They still apply. > *At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of shitty claims.*Thank you, Razer! I wonder where is our beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, who repeat themselves like fascist parrots about censoring the list to the "crypto-shit only"-> sttttop the offtopic "shit". Silence, a?... and even if not - we tell you BEFOREHAND - ​​ *Fuck off*! *Fuck off*! without any explanations WHY we post what we post and HOW this is cypherpunk related, more than your strict-crypto-ONLY topics.(explanations, which were already given dozens of times, by the way) Rayzer, 1. Welcome to the club. 2. Wait a few more days and post a few more great posts to get the accusation of being a troll/fsb agent/... :D 3. Be ready to paste the FUCK OFF a few times more. or... MANY times. A. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2258 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 26 08:18:27 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:18:27 -0700 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 07/25/2016 10:26 PM, Ted Smith wrote: > On 07/25/2016 09:27 PM, Александр wrote: >> >> On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote: >> > *for those not sabotaging this list with noise, * >> >> >> 2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer > >: >> >> If you mean my posts I have two words for you. >> >> *Fuck off.* >> >> If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They >> still apply. >> >> * >> At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of >> shitty claims. >> *Thank you, Razer! >> >> I wonder where is our beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, >> who repeat themselves like fascist parrots about censoring the list >> to the "crypto-shit only"-> sttttop the offtopic "shit". > I was reading the code. Do you code, Александр? You should really try > to learn, it's a very empowering experience. I really really wanted an Altair when I saw it in a boys life magazine circa 1967-8 but my parents were NEVER going to shell out that kind of money so I missed the early days of personal computing. I started with Basic V1.1 on an Epson HX-20 CP/M laptop in the mid-late 80s. Wrote a terminal/logging program which I used on BBSs and Packet Radio that ran @1200 baud that would also spit out a printed log of the radio contact. I wrote it myself from examples provided in the Epson manual that was full of mistakes I had to debug and correct. I went to a Tandy ColorComputer and Basic09, then OS9 L1 and L2 (microware for 68XXX chips) Then I learned a little C, but before I could dig in there was C+ and C++ and then... ...and then I figured out unless I was getting paid for writing code so I could write them off I simply couldn't afford the INCREDIBLY PRICED books on the subject... A subject that was changing at lightspeed... before WWW tutorials etc. I did pick up enough Jscript to get me in trouble though. I apologize to NO ONE for not posting directly code-related items. That IS NOT the purpose of this list according to EVERYTHING I've managed to find about it historically and suspect it just more feudal bullshit from people who 'came lately' to the coding world, and as I claimed before, came for the money. By the time I figured out there was money to be made. I could already see, considering I lived in the heart of it, all the psychopaths flocking to 'the next big thing' and decided I would NEVER EVER EVER do code work for a living (at least in the US). I was looking at Cisco books laying around at the Gym when CIsco started up and saw that I had learned 99% of it playing with packet radio, iNos jNos and TPK. Fuck 'em. Fuck their money. You can train a CHILD or that guy sitting on the ground downtown panhandling to do coding. It's NOT brain surgery. And the arrogance of people I see in the industry is still profoundly disturbing. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4914 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 26 08:20:36 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:20:36 -0700 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <20160726094650.GA30751@ctrlc.hu> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <20160726094650.GA30751@ctrlc.hu> Message-ID: <8964346e-f00c-ba9e-6b65-5a1005e9ee4d@riseup.net> I have the PERFECT solution that I've never applied to anyone on this list before, including Juan. You've been kill-listed cunt. On 07/26/2016 02:46 AM, stef wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:05:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: >> If you mean my posts I have two words for you. > you are in the circle polluting this list. yes. > > this is the cypherpunks mailinglist (or at least it was) and cypherpunks write > code, not stupid insults like this. you are sabotaging all the good work that > could be done here, and when someone posts something code related, you either > say "this is not for the average ignorant tanzanian activits" or you > immediately feel buthurt. so if someone, you should fuck off. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 26 05:27:51 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:27:51 -0400 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ >http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ >http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-prison-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives/ >https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock-iphone-using-touch-id-in-second-federal-case > > A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to >unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give >investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against >them. The first time this ever happened in a federal case was back in >May, following a District Court ruling in 2014. The legal position of >forcing suspects to use their fingerprints to unlock devices won't be >known with certainty until a case reaches the U.S. Supreme Court, but >lower court rulings so far appear to establish a precedent which is at >odds with that concerning passcodes. Most constitutional experts >appear to believe that the Fifth Amendment prevents a suspect from >being compelled to reveal a password or passcode, as this would amount >to forced self-incrimination -- though even this isn't certain. >Fingerprints, in contrast, have traditionally been viewed as 'real or >physical evidence,' meaning that police are entitled to take them >without permission. Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner, since I first read about the 2014 case you referenced.. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 15:56:45 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:56:45 +1000 Subject: Tech Bashes Trump In-Reply-To: <20160725095038.GK17859@x220-a02> References: <20160725095038.GK17859@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160725225645.GM17859@x220-a02> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:50:38PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 05:06:27AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > > https://shift.newco.co/an-open-letter-from-technology-sector-leaders-on-donald-trumps-candidacy-for-president-5bf734c159e4 > > So Hillary Clinton compared Russian president Vladimir Putin to Hitler - > Putin struck back in 2014 with the sexist put down "it’s better not to > argue with women". > > My god! That nasty, nasty chauvanist bastard! How dare he! > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2648950/Maybe-weakness-not-worst-quality-woman-Vladimir-Putins-incredibly-sexist-Hillary-Clinton.html > > > May be soon it'll be Hillary Clinton who's "Putin's useful idiot"... More useful idioting - everything (of course) is Russia's fault: http://theduran.com/us-media-blames-putin-russia-everything-proof/ I like Juan's version re the DNC emails leak - if Russia did it, that'd be credit to them and shame on the US. From spencerone at openmailbox.org Tue Jul 26 09:49:24 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 09:49:24 -0700 Subject: What happened with coderman@gmail.com =?UTF-8?Q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <23e4a461dfead0aa8b46c741b03c9a83@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Georgi Guninski: > What happened with coderman at gmail.com? > I noticed the lack of technical posts on other lists and wondered the same ): Wordlife, Spencer From zen at freedbms.net Mon Jul 25 17:01:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 10:01:34 +1000 Subject: Conclusion - Re: IAAF, USA and Canada demand Russian athletes represent "no country" at Olympic games In-Reply-To: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> References: <20160719120241.GW16437@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160726000134.GA7495@x220-a02> IOC rules Russia not to be banned from Rio Olympics, decides exposing the West (with Russia ban) is not the greatest good. Doping Scandal: Putin Plays Strategically Against the Russophobes https://www.nalin.ru/rossiya-nichego-ne-razrushaet-pochemu-nelzya-xlopat-olimpijskoj-dveryu-2194 http://russia-insider.com/en/essay/doping-scandal-putin-plays-strategically-against-russophobes/ri15842 Vovan and Lexus, Russian phone pranksters have a lark: In Deep WADA: Famous Russian Pranksters Learn Truth Behind Doping Scandal http://sputniknews.com/world/20160722/1043479375/doping-scandal-prank-call.html http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/deep-wada-famous-russian-pranksters-learn-truth-behind-doping-scandal/ri15837 :) From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 00:24:09 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 10:24:09 +0300 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <5796f9a4.962cc80a.82a44.99fb@mx.google.com> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <9f79bf29-43de-c6d4-1514-87be0db4fbea@riseup.net> <5796f9a4.962cc80a.82a44.99fb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ted Smith wrote: > >Do you code, Александр? You should really try > > to learn, it's a very empowering experience. > 1. Who told you that i don't? 2. But i DO MUCH MORE than that. And interested in much more than that. I advice the same to you, smarty-coder. p.s. Oh, teddy, you finally learned how to do a copypaste to my name... wau. What a coder. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 634 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Tue Jul 26 01:42:57 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:42:57 +0300 Subject: What happened with coderman@gmail.com ? Message-ID: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> What happened with coderman at gmail.com? Web search suggest he is not posting since March this year. From s at ctrlc.hu Tue Jul 26 02:46:50 2016 From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:46:50 +0200 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160726094650.GA30751@ctrlc.hu> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 07:05:23PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > If you mean my posts I have two words for you. you are in the circle polluting this list. yes. this is the cypherpunks mailinglist (or at least it was) and cypherpunks write code, not stupid insults like this. you are sabotaging all the good work that could be done here, and when someone posts something code related, you either say "this is not for the average ignorant tanzanian activits" or you immediately feel buthurt. so if someone, you should fuck off. -- otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 02:03:43 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:03:43 +0300 Subject: What happened with coderman@gmail.com ? In-Reply-To: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: Good question. Thought about him 6 months ago but didn't find anything useful. Maybe someone has got any info? 2016-07-26 11:42 GMT+03:00 Georgi Guninski : > What happened with coderman at gmail.com? > > Web search suggest he is not posting since March this year. > > -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 02:14:46 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:14:46 +0300 Subject: Europeans: the Most Brutal Mass Murderers of All Time? In-Reply-To: <20160726082640.GA26012@x220-a02> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> <20160726082640.GA26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: 2016-07-26 11:26 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > Is “Western Christian” Europe backsliding and reverting > to her old ways? > backsliding?! Oh, you are an optimist, Zen! They never "slided" away from the bloody path of parasitizing/killing others in the benefit of themselves. In Europe and the US - there are no old days or new days - there are eternal "PRESENT DAYS" of oppression and mass murders over the weaker countries. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 09:58:27 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:58:27 -0300 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <8964346e-f00c-ba9e-6b65-5a1005e9ee4d@riseup.net> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <20160726094650.GA30751@ctrlc.hu> <8964346e-f00c-ba9e-6b65-5a1005e9ee4d@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579795db.c4a7370a.633c6.59cb@mx.google.com> On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:20:36 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > I have the PERFECT solution that I've never applied to anyone on this > list before, including Juan. Oh, it's nice to see, again, how the pentagon torbots like rayzer and grarpamp operate. They vomit propaganda and then cover their ears...or eyes. How cute =) > > You've been kill-listed cunt. > > From skquinn at rushpost.com Tue Jul 26 12:08:44 2016 From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:08:44 -0500 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1469560124.3141.3.camel@moonpatrol> On Tue, 2016-07-26 at 15:35 -0300, juan wrote: > People could do lots of different things...if they owned their > phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are > owned by apple too, and by the US government. Not all of them; in fact I think Android has taken the lead over iOS in mobile phones, though I understand if one balks at trusting Google. There is also Windows Phone, though I'm personally not too keen on trusting Microsoft. Anyway, getting back to the topic of the original message: I don't use the fingerprint unlock functionality on my devices for exactly this reason. Fingerprints can't be changed when compromised; passwords can. -- Shawn K. Quinn From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 11:12:19 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:12:19 -0400 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/26/16, jim bell wrote: > could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data In particular apply to the standard index / thumb scan, key change to pre stored key subsequently zeroed requiring offline decrypt by owner later. Some unix full disk encryption has concept of any of multiple keys can unlock master key. Whatever, but having reached that point in process, beware charges of evidence destruction, interference, contempt, etc. From grarpamp at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 11:17:29 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:17:29 -0400 Subject: What happened with coderman@gmail.com ? In-Reply-To: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On 7/26/16, Georgi Guninski wrote: > What happened with coderman at gmail.com? He's on holiday hunting cyber ninjas in foreign lands ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb11Tz3xVKY From juan.g71 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 11:35:10 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 15:35:10 -0300 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: > > There's another set of possibilities.  Usually, a person has 10 > fingers.  They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or > more), and in two different directions, each.   With some additional > software, People could do lots of different things...if they owned their phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are owned by apple too, and by the US government. > some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", > designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being > scanned wants to do that.  Further, again with additional > programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically > disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. >    Jim Bell > > > > From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 26 10:49:02 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: John On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: >http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ >http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/02/federal-court-touch-id-fingerprint/ >http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/05/feds-say-suspect-should-rot-in-prison-for-refusing-to-decrypt-drives/ >https://apple.slashdot.org/story/16/07/25/1559208/suspect-required-to-unlock-iphone-using-touch-id-in-second-federal-case > > A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to >unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give >investigators access to data which can be used as evidence against >them. [cut] >Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner,  since I first read about >the 2014 case you referenced..   John There's another set of possibilities.  Usually, a person has 10 fingers.  They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each.   With some additional software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that.  Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time.         Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3725 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 26 14:59:58 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:59:58 -0400 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1469560124.3141.3.camel@moonpatrol> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> <1469560124.3141.3.camel@moonpatrol> Message-ID: > On Jul 26, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > > On Tue, 2016-07-26 at 15:35 -0300, juan wrote: >> People could do lots of different things...if they owned their >> phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are >> owned by apple too, and by the US government. > > Not all of them; in fact I think Android has taken the lead over iOS in > mobile phones, though I understand if one balks at trusting Google. Depending on which phone you have and which ROM you flash onto it, you can get an Android phone that is -mostly- independent of the Google ecosystem - an independent app store (F-droid), firefox as the browser, different mail clients (k-9, etc)…. different EVERYTHING, basically, but the core system for managing the UI, and connecting to networks/making calls/etc. I mean, yes, you are still running google code at the core of the thing - but you can get some distance. E.g. - https://fsfe.org/campaigns/android/liberate.en.html http://www.xda-developers.com/setting-up-android-marshmallow-without-google/ http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/using-android-without-google/ Over the years I’ve played with dozens of ROMs on a handful of different android phones… its fun screwing around with them. I’ve gotta keep an iPhone for work, and honestly the iPhone 5s looks like a piece of fucking junk compared to my nexus 6. John From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 26 15:01:23 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:01:23 -0400 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C04C867-720F-4805-A1A5-607C47735BE3@synfin.org> > On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:49 PM, jim bell wrote: > > There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. > Jim Bell > This would be an amazing addition to cyanogenmod ;) — John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2106 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 526 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 01:06:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:06:58 +1000 Subject: [WW3-APPROACHES] Russia may pre-emptively strike In-Reply-To: <20160610115653.GA17273@x220-a02> References: <20160609095519.GA11276@x220-a02> <20160609124006.GA12783@x220-a02> <20160610115653.GA17273@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160726080658.GA1995@x220-a02> Tensions are rising as the North American wounded dragon flails: Russia Thinks America Is Going To Attack Her, Will Strike First - Armageddon Approaches http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/07/22/armageddon-approaches-paul-craig-roberts/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/armageddon-approaches/ri15821 ) "If Washington persists, it will provoke the preventive strike that Zhirinovsky told the German editor the Merkel regime was inviting." "Most wars happen without the public’s knowledge until they happen." "There is no sign that [USA] Congress is aware of approaching Armageddon" From jnn at synfin.org Tue Jul 26 15:07:30 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:07:30 -0400 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <473D813E-2E27-4B03-B8EF-E10CD61F9C41@synfin.org> > On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:23 AM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > > Wowow, easy... Perhaps we can start using the prefix [RUS] for russian nationalism related posts of zenaan, that would make topic distinction a little easier :D +1 John From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 26 18:22:37 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:22:37 -0700 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <934624693.5906464.1469560741003.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> <934624693.5906464.1469560741003.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <25d4ce44-1795-a17b-ebb1-98a08626c1fd@riseup.net> On 07/26/2016 12:19 PM, jim bell wrote: The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola 68000 microprocessor Was just discussing my ColorComputer 3 on another thread. It had a 68xx chip and at 4mhz could run Multivue, a GUI based on the Xerox PARC model (written in C... the manual had ALL the code) in a unix-like system (Microware OS9) that could run rings around any PC of the time. Multiple shells, it wasn't necessary to hard code memory locations if you wrote code for it (Relocatable Object Memory) and all. I hung onto it until it became totally obsolete. Rr > > > *From:* juan > On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) > jim bell > wrote: > >> There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 > >> fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or > >> more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional > >> software, > > > People could do lots of different things...if they owned their > > phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are > > owned by apple too, and by the US government. > > Not MY phone, which is an Android. I have detested Apple ever since > the very early 1980s, when they had a nasty legal habit of suing > anybody who tried to make an add-on card for the Apple II computer. > (Which didn't have a SHIFT key, which is why for a long time you > could tell a person on the BBS's had an Apple BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS > TYPED IN ALL CAPS!!!). Who forgets to add a shift key? > > The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola > 68000 microprocessor for their Macintosh computer, which had a 24-bit > linear memory address space (later increased to 32 bits), unlike the > foolish 80X86 series, which had a botch called "segmentation". > (Although, I have long maintained that there would be nothing wrong > with segmentation, as long as the individual segments could be made as > large as any program and/or data that you could ever want to use. The > 8086/88 only allowed segments 64Kbytes in length. Sure, later > iterations allowed larger segment sizes, but by that point the > limitation had been locked into software! A segment size of 4 > gigabytes (2**32) would have been just great. > > Whatever happened to the R4000??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R4000 > > Jim Bell > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 7335 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Tue Jul 26 18:23:56 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:23:56 -0700 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1C04C867-720F-4805-A1A5-607C47735BE3@synfin.org> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <1C04C867-720F-4805-A1A5-607C47735BE3@synfin.org> Message-ID: On 07/26/2016 03:01 PM, John Newman wrote: > >> On Jul 26, 2016, at 1:49 PM, jim bell > > wrote: >> >> There's another set of possibilities. Usually, a person has 10 >> fingers. They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or >> more), and in two different directions, each. With some additional >> software, some of those could be assigned to be "duress codes", >> designed to re-encrypt the data if the person whose fingers are being >> scanned wants to do that. Further, again with additional >> programming, the fingerprint scan function could be automatically >> disabled if it hadn't been used for an extended period of time. >> Jim Bell >> > > This would be an amazing addition to cyanogenmod ;) > > — > John Give it the middle finger to do a full reset to factory specs! Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3581 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 01:26:40 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:26:40 +1000 Subject: Europeans: the Most Brutal Mass Murderers of All Time? In-Reply-To: <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> References: <57944C7F.7010102@riseup.net> <243cd174-862e-2532-c752-f60802e40d9c@riseup.net> <579486FF.8050907@riseup.net> <4aa3c92f-fc92-9915-f7b8-420c90888f7a@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160726082640.GA26012@x220-a02> A needed addition to this thread: Europeans: the Most Brutal Mass Murderers of All Time? “It is true that the “new Europe” has largely kept itself in check over the past few decades choosing peace and prosperity over war. But is that about to change? Is “Western Christian” Europe backsliding and reverting to her old ways?” http://russia-insider.com/en/history/europeans-most-brutal-mass-murderers-all-time/ri15844 From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 26 12:19:00 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 19:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <5797ac85.e928c80a.c54fd.7660@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <934624693.5906464.1469560741003.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: juan On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:49:02 +0000 (UTC) jim bell wrote: >> There's another set of possibilities.  Usually, a person has 10 >> fingers.  They can presumably be scanned in two different axes (or >> more), and in two different directions, each.   With some additional >> software, >    People could do lots of different things...if they owned their >   phones. But the phones are owned by apple. The phone users are >   owned by apple too, and by the US government. Not MY phone, which is an Android.  I have detested Apple ever since the very early 1980s, when they had a nasty legal habit of suing anybody who tried to make an add-on card for the Apple II computer.  (Which didn't have a SHIFT key, which is why for a long time you could tell a person on the BBS's had an Apple BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS TYPED IN ALL CAPS!!!).   Who forgets to add a shift key? The one really great thing Apple ever did was to choose the Motorola 68000 microprocessor for their Macintosh computer, which had a 24-bit linear memory address space  (later increased to 32 bits), unlike the foolish 80X86 series, which had a botch called "segmentation".  (Although, I have long maintained that there would be nothing wrong with segmentation, as long as the individual segments could be made as large as any program and/or data that you could ever want to use.  The 8086/88 only allowed segments 64Kbytes in length.  Sure, later iterations allowed larger segment sizes, but by that point the limitation had been locked into software!  A segment size of 4 gigabytes (2**32) would have been just great. Whatever happened to the R4000???  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R4000                Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4708 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 02:50:14 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 19:50:14 +1000 Subject: [RU-NEWS] Russia considers =?utf-8?Q?statu?= =?utf-8?Q?s_quo_on_Palestine_unacceptable_=E2=80=94?= Putin Message-ID: <20160726095014.GD26012@x220-a02> With the new boss in town, potentially good news for the Palestinians. Russia considers status quo on Palestine unacceptable — Putin http://tass.ru/en/politics/890417 Good cause for hope I'd say, with the USA in its financial death throws, all players in the middle east will be looking to the Kremlin for political alliance, "legitimacy" as well as protection - Israel will presumably continue to want Russia's protection for the Leviathan oil basin in the mediterranean sea, Turkey has well and truly begun its rapprochement with Russia and will undoubtedly benefit from 'Turk stream' pipelin into Europe, and the Saudi's now have a major roadblock to any "aunti imperial" regime change operations they have lusted over until now (stalemate in the desperately poor Yemen has turned to the Yemenis now fighting back -into- Saudi Arabia (from what I hear, old Yemeni lands that were "given" to Saudi Arabia when Yemen was at its absolute weakest and was otherwise being land raped by the Saudi's and their Western supporters)). All in all, extremely positive (/ militarily stable) situations developing all over the place. Courtesy Russia. Putin has the remainder of his current term in office and undoubtedly one more term after this - here's truly hoping that Russia's subsequent leader is at least half as functional re world affairs. The only major caveat of course, is an overly hawkish USA president at the upcoming North American federal elections. And, unfortunately, this is a bloody big caveat! I hope that the Eurasion alliances now forming, some mentioned above, become strong enough in the next 2 months in the case that Hitlery Clinton gets elected. Another reminder of the nature of "the West"/ very recent European history (mostly polemic, not much history): The West has raped, killed and destroyed the whole world http://www.pravdareport.com/world/americas/25-07-2016/135116-war_with_russia-0/ Good luck, little old world.. From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 03:26:57 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:26:57 +1000 Subject: [RU_NEWS] Kurds + US mid east plays - US-Saudi Plan to Prompt Iranian Pullback from Syria Message-ID: <20160726102657.GE26012@x220-a02> The US-Saudi Plan to Prompt an Iranian Pullback from Syria July 25, 2016 - Andrew Korybko, Katehon http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/the-us-saudi-plan-to-prompt-iranian.html A rather long analysis of the big mid east plays that could unfold - Iran, Saudi Arabia, USA and parts of the new silk road belt (Iran, Pakistan and India). From carimachet at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 11:03:32 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 21:03:32 +0300 Subject: What happened with coderman@gmail.com ? In-Reply-To: <23e4a461dfead0aa8b46c741b03c9a83@openmailbox.org> References: <20160726084257.GA4148@sivokote.iziade.m$> <23e4a461dfead0aa8b46c741b03c9a83@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: arghhhhhhhhh On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:49 PM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > > >> Georgi Guninski: >> What happened with coderman at gmail.com? >> >> > I noticed the lack of technical posts on other lists and wondered the same > ): > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > > > > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1719 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 05:12:21 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:12:21 +1000 Subject: [RU-NEWS] new money - NEO =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= =?utf-8?Q?_Switzerland?= is Paving the Way to Europe for China Message-ID: <20160726121221.GF26012@x220-a02> On all things yuan, AIIB and a new, non unipolar, world currency order. NEO – Switzerland is Paving the Way to Europe for China http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/25/neo-switzerland-is-paving-the-way-to-europe-for-china/ From spencerone at openmailbox.org Tue Jul 26 23:18:53 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 23:18:53 -0700 Subject: on building a political platform matrix In-Reply-To: <20160727041326.GK26012@x220-a02> References: <20160727041326.GK26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <72d28db322af26332d19ea33cb686aeb@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Zenaan Harkness: > find answers within > Cyans. Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 02:30:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 05:30:55 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: <891237487.6282317.1469605772214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <891237487.6282317.1469605772214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/27/16, jim bell wrote: > of them leak a master-key (quite anonymously, we suppose) to people they > ... > I'm waiting, hoping, that they also release a few tens of thousands of > "private" Hillary emails, the ones they've been rumoring on the media over Similarly as before, if Snowden has anything left, it will drop before election or no more than a year into 2017. Since further damning an outgoing executive branch is pointless, 2017 is more likely. > It's way to dangerous to elect a person, Hillary Clinton, who may have > foolishly Doesn't matter, it foolish elect this fake career politician state bitch regardless. Get rid of careerists and statists. With 325M people to pick from you can find better. From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 27 06:56:34 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 06:56:34 -0700 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <20160727074803.GC1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> <20160727074803.GC1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <4b90f427-6e91-2f63-8256-099027558782@riseup.net> On 07/27/2016 12:48 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Please try to configure your mail to send text/plain. > > See bellow how your mail looks in sound console clients. > > Likely some lists will ban html only email. > > On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 07:23:54AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >> Wowow, easy... Perhaps we can start using the prefix [RUS] for russian nationalism related posts of zenaan, that would make topic distinction a little easier :D

7:47 AM, July 26, 2016, "Александр" <afalex169 at gmail.com>:
On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote:
> for those not sabotaging this list with noise,

2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer <rayzer at riseup.net>:
If you mean my posts I have two words for you.

Fuck off.

If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They still apply.


At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of shitty claims.
Thank you, Razer!

I wonder where is our beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, who repeat themselves like fascist parrots about censoring the list to the "crypto-shit only"-> sttttop the offtopic "shit".
Silence, a?... ! > and even if not - we tell you BEFOREHAND - ​​
Fuck off!
Fuck off! without any explanations WHY we post what we post and HOW this is cypherpunk related, more than your strict-crypto-ONLY topics.(explanations, which were already given dozens of times, by the way)

Rayzer,
1. Welcome to the club.
2. Wait a few more days and post a few more great posts to get the accusation of being a troll/fsb agent/... :D
3. Be ready to paste the FUCK OFF a few times more.
or... MANY times.

A.







--
You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. > > What the hell kind of mail program do you use that shows "
" and all the html in plain text mode viewing html emails Georgi? Does it also shows and too (HTML v0.0)? It has to date back farther than elm and pine... Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 00:49:32 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 07:49:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fwd: [ PFIR ] Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <891237487.6282317.1469605772214.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I guess I have to laugh at this, below.  Does Hillary Clinton or her corrupt cronies really think that Americans care who, exactly, who obtained and leaked the DNC emails?  And why should we believe that ONLY ONE individual (or group) had them?  There are probably plenty of DNC insiders who are disgusted with how bad a choice Clinton is, this year.  Might at least one of them leak a master-key (quite anonymously, we suppose) to people they figure would go ahead and use it?  No doubt Russia has the talent, and certainly the motivation, but so do many other people.   I'm waiting, hoping, that they also release a few tens of thousands of "private" Hillary emails, the ones they've been rumoring on the media over the last few days.   We'll learn a lot.  We first heard of her private server over a year ago, as I recall.  About that time, I first heard that the deleted emails had been chosen through a process of negative-elimination:  The emails that were saved were those that contained one or more of a number of keywords.  Lack those keywords, and the message wasn't saved.  It sounds like a system that her buddies designed to be able to eliminate everything they wanted to erase:  "Just remember not to enter any relevant keyword, and you know the message won't survive."  What were those keywords?  There should have been plenty of emails that were so short they didn't make the cut, even if they were indeed government business.  It is virtually certain, therefore, that this system was designed and known to Hillary Clinton virtually from the moment it was first used. It's way to dangerous to elect a person, Hillary Clinton, who may have foolishly depended on having a system to delete messages, when it's possible those same messages were copied, and eventually found their way to unknown others.  The blackmail possibilities would be endless. I would have thought that by now, somebody would have performed experiments on a mock-up of her server, perhaps the same hardware and software they used, to try to determine if somebody would have been able to break in.  Offer a $100,000 reward, or something like it.                Jim Bell Clinton campaign -- and some cyber experts -- say Russia is behind email release https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-campaign--and-some-cyber-experts--say-russia-is-behind-email-release/2016/07/24/5b5428e6-51a8-11e6-bbf5-957ad17b4385_story.html         A top official with Hillary Clinton's campaign on Sunday         accused the Russian government of orchestrating the release of         damaging Democratic Party records in order to help the campaign of         Republican Donald Trump -- and some cyber security experts in the U.S.         and overseas agree.  The extraordinary charge came as some national         security officials have been growing increasingly concerned about         possible efforts by Russia to meddle in the election, according to         several individuals familiar with the situation. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 5533 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 27 08:11:40 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 08:11:40 -0700 Subject: [from 'karl', offlist] libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> <20160727074803.GC1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> <4b90f427-6e91-2f63-8256-099027558782@riseup.net> Message-ID: My posts are HTML compatible. NOT HTML only. Any modern mail reader set to view in plain text should have no problem whatsoever nor would it be rejected by a list that only accepts plain text. I do not attached images, web beacons or any other crap. All my missives are typed by hand and represent ME, on a list THAT IS NOT a 'coders' list, but a general interest list for people interested in cybersec, with coders subscribed. That is what this list has been afaict since it's inception, and that's the reason I'm here. As far as 'conflict' goes. I respond to trolls in kind, once or twice, and then ignore them. You might send your complaint to: Juan Cari Machete 'Stef' who thinks like you that this is a 'coder list' and referred to my posts as 'pollution'. That last one is Kill-listed for eternity... Because a list Fascist is just like any other fascist. You KILL THEM by any means necessary with any weapon at hand. And if YOU send me another email offlist with your whines, I'll add you to the list of known trolls. Kapiche? Rr On 07/27/2016 07:42 AM, Karl wrote: > Hi Rr, > > I'm new to this list, but I'm used to it being quite polite to send > text-only emails, and very helpful to contribute with real work (code). > > These flames and insults do not belong on public lists. They are very > hurtful. You seem very strong; have the strength to lessen these conflicts. > > Sent from my phone > On Jul 27, 2016 10:04 AM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > > > On 07/27/2016 12:48 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> Please try to configure your mail to send text/plain. >> >> See bellow how your mail looks in sound console clients. >> >> Likely some lists will ban html only email. >> >> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 07:23:54AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >>> Wowow, easy... Perhaps we can start using the prefix [RUS] for russian > nationalism related posts of zenaan, that would make topic distinction a > little easier :D

7:47 AM, July 26, 2016, "Александр" & > lt;afalex169 at gmail.com>:
On 07/25/2016 > 04:42 PM, stef wrote:
> for those not sabotaging this list with > noise,

2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer & > lt;rayzer at riseup.net>:
If you mean my posts I have two > words for you.

Fuck off.

If you don't mean my > posts backtrack to those two words. They still apply.

/>
At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of > shitty claims.
Thank you, Razer!

I wonder where is our > beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, who repeat themselves like > fascist parrots about censoring the list to the "crypto-shit only"-> > sttttop the offtopic "shit".
Silence, a?... ! >> and even if not - we tell you BEFOREHAND - ​​
Fuck off!
Fuck > off! without any explanations WHY we post what we post and HOW this is > cypherpunk related, more than your strict-crypto-ONLY topics.(explanations, > which were already given dozens of times, by the way)

Rayzer, >
1. Welcome to the club.
2. Wait a few more days and post a few > more great posts to get the accusation of being a troll/fsb agent/... :D
/>3. Be ready to paste the FUCK OFF a few times more.
or... MANY > times.

A.






/>
--
You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, > you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. >> > > What the hell kind of mail program do you use that shows "
" and all > the html in plain text mode viewing html emails Georgi? Does it also > shows and too (HTML v0.0)? > > It has to date back farther than elm and pine... > > Rr > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Tue Jul 26 23:50:09 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 08:50:09 +0200 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <473D813E-2E27-4B03-B8EF-E10CD61F9C41@synfin.org> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> <473D813E-2E27-4B03-B8EF-E10CD61F9C41@synfin.org> Message-ID: <751171469602209@web26g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 928 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 16:11:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 09:11:33 +1000 Subject: Court Forces Fingerprint Phone Unlock In-Reply-To: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1159269352.5984438.1469555342339.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20160726231133.GJ26012@x220-a02> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 05:49:02PM +0000, jim bell wrote: > From: John > On July 26, 2016 3:08:25 AM EDT, grarpamp wrote: > >http://9to5mac.com/2016/07/25/touch-id-fingerprint-fbi-law/ > > > > A second federal judge has ruled that a suspect can be compelled to > >unlock their iPhone using their fingerprint in order to give > >Use a long PIN for your encrypted phone. I've abided by this, despite >the extreme convenience of the fingerprint scanner,  since I first >read about >the 2014 case you referenced..   John > > > There's another set of possibilities.  Usually, a person has 10 > fingers.  They can presumably be scanned in two different axes Um ... I think that's called "chopping" with two different axes - but fingers are so small, and axes so sharp (compared with splitters anyhow), that -one- axe is probably enough. From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 27 00:48:03 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:48:03 +0300 Subject: libsaxolotl In-Reply-To: <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> References: <20160725234200.GZ30751@ctrlc.hu> <37450d9f-d4d0-c122-bcaf-61863ed66735@riseup.net> <204191469510634@web28o.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160727074803.GC1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> Please try to configure your mail to send text/plain. See bellow how your mail looks in sound console clients. Likely some lists will ban html only email. On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 07:23:54AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Wowow, easy... Perhaps we can start using the prefix [RUS] for russian nationalism related posts of zenaan, that would make topic distinction a little easier :D

7:47 AM, July 26, 2016, "Александр" <afalex169 at gmail.com>:
On 07/25/2016 04:42 PM, stef wrote:
> for those not sabotaging this list with noise,
 
2016-07-26 5:05 GMT+03:00 Rayzer <rayzer at riseup.net>:
If you mean my posts I have two words for you.

Fuck off.

If you don't mean my posts backtrack to those two words. They still apply.


At last!!! At last it's not me or Zen who reply to these kind of shitty claims.
Thank you, Razer!

I wonder where is our beloved grarpamp AND Ted-the fucken teddy-bear, who repeat themselves like fascist parrots about censoring the list to the "crypto-shit only"-> sttttop the offtopic "shit".
Silence, a?... ! and even if not - we tell you BEFOREHAND - ​​
Fuck off!
Fuck off! without any explanations WHY we post what we post and HOW this is cypherpunk related, more than your strict-crypto-ONLY topics.(explanations, which were already given dozens of times, by the way)

Rayzer,
1. Welcome to the club.
2. Wait a few more days and post a few more great posts to get the accusation of being a troll/fsb agent/... :D
3. Be ready to paste the FUCK OFF a few times more.
or... MANY times.

A.







--
You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 27 00:58:58 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:58:58 +0300 Subject: System time as cookie/deanonymization? Message-ID: <20160727075858.GD1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> One of these days, I saw a box whose system time was off by about a minute. No big deal in this case, but significantly smaller difference is a fingerprint of the machine: Alice is off by -0.58390128310s, etc. Getting very good approximation of system time from a browser is not very trivial, but likely writing something like NTP in javascript is doable. Read that tor browser bundle downgrades the clock resolution possibly for other reasons, but IIRC the resolution was enough for this purpose. Can this be used for cookie/deanonymization? Anyone already implemented it/wrote a paper? Quick web search didn't answer exactly this. From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 27 11:36:46 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:36:46 -0700 Subject: Interesting series of tweets about ioerror Message-ID: <8f773e8a-0c6c-1e34-bc6d-98d1ecec6693@riseup.net> This woman claims she's being pressured to say she was victimized by ioerror: https://twitter.com/dhammicmarxist/status/758367439725862912 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Tue Jul 26 21:13:26 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:13:26 +1000 Subject: on building a political platform matrix Message-ID: <20160727041326.GK26012@x220-a02> A human wants to know what to believe in, what to barrack for. It is suggested that they find answers from within their fabulous selves. How might we best facilitate the individual's quiotic political discovery journey in some easy to access way? Pointing at books is simply too much for the average modern Western human, schooled as s/he is. Perhaps a 'decision' tree? A list or flow chart or the like for the possible planks of any political platform? Should it be anything other than a wiki? Probably should be git backed and text based in the back end, markdown or etc. From guninski at guninski.com Wed Jul 27 05:28:44 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 15:28:44 +0300 Subject: System time as cookie/deanonymization? In-Reply-To: References: <20160727075858.GD1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <20160727122844.GF1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 06:55:52PM +0800, Jason McVetta wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Georgi Guninski > wrote: > > > > Getting very good approximation of system time from a browser is not > > very trivial, but likely writing something like NTP in javascript is > > doable. > > > > Haven't tried it, but this JS library claims to return > microsecond-resolution system time in a vareity of browsers: > https://github.com/medikoo/microtime-x Thanks. I don't think this library is enough. AFAICT, the lib gives you high precision time _in the browser_, but this is not enough for the question. To get it, you use the network which is of unknown latency (unless you sniff it). To get the system time you must know: 1. When you got the time 2. When you received the time Something like Eisenstein's theory about impossibility to synchronize clocks with super-light speed. Sometimes I wonder what is so special about the speed of light and if humans were blind per design and didn't know what light is, would they replace "speed of light with 'speed of fastest thing they can measure", explaining relativity with "the fast thing slows down near `matter'" ;) (this paragraph is just trolling). From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 10:04:41 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:04:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: System time as cookie/deanonymization? In-Reply-To: <20160727122844.GF1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160727075858.GD1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> <20160727122844.GF1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <1747951156.6501006.1469639081913.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Georgi Guninski >To get it, you use the network which is of unknown latency (unless you >sniff it). >To get the system time you must know: >1. When you got the time >2. When you received the time >Something like Eisenstein's theory about impossibility to synchronize >clocks with super-light speed. Sometimes I wonder what is so special >about the speed of light and if humans were blind per design and didn't >know what light is, would they replace "speed of light with 'speed of >fastest thing they can measure", explaining relativity with "the fast >thing slows down near `matter'" ;) (this paragraph is just trolling). As I recall, it is impossible to (perfectly) synchronize a rotating assemblage of clocks.Since Earth is rotating, that means all clocks on it (except at the poles) are rotating, too. This is related:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_synchronisation Interesting side-side-issue:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement Scientists have continued to experiment with the use of optical fibers to study quantumentanglement.  http://phys.org/news/2008-06-world-largest-quantum-bell-spans.html(no relation, of course)  They generated photon-pairs which were quantum-entangled, sent them in opposite directions, made their measurements far away, and found(as they kinda-sorta expected) that the first measurement somehow affected the secondmeasurement many kilometers away. I read a few years ago, somewhere, that in such a test they were able to exclude the possibility of a direct-communication effect manipulating the results unless it wereat a speed of at least 10,000 c (10,000x the speed of light in a vacuum.) Perhaps this system could be used to synchronize clocks.  Although, since the speed of light in an optical fiber is very constant over time (assuming the temperature isn'tchanging) then very good results can obviously be obtained using the far more mundanesystem. Interesting tidbit:  A 1 centimeter change in the altitude of a clock, at about the Earth'ssurface, changes the rate of that clock by about 1 part in 10E18.   (My own calculation:  Itmight be a factor of 2 off.)    Experimental clocks of approximately this accuracy exist.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature12941.html?message-global=remove In addition, "nuclear clocks" are talked about.  (although they are somewhat hard toGoogle-search because of term confusion with the "Doomsday Clock".  here's an example:http://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/17/why-do-physicists-want-a-nuclear-clock/#2dc823e1d0b5               Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12105 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdb10987 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 27 11:24:44 2016 From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:24:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The Power Of Irradiating Ourselves In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1733374128.6538275.1469643884806.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: grarpamp >Free power of course... >https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/07/14/2049246/cleanspace-co-sensor-runs-on-freevolt-rf-harvesting >A few years ago, a Kickstarter was set up to develop a locator tag >powered by free radio frequency (RF) energy harvested from the >environment. This was called a scam here on Slashdot and was shut down >before it was funded on Kickstarter. However, it now appears that the >concept is not as far-fetched as some predicted. A UK company >CleanSpace has developed a carbon monoxide (CO) sensor which is >powered by free RF. A review of the product has been posted on >YouTube. It uses Freevolt technology to keep a battery charged and the >CO sensor running. Since they have several thousand of these devices >collecting data, they do appear to work and it seems to be in the 'not >a scam' department. I don't think there's necessarily a contradiction here.  While there do exist CO sensors which needto keep the detector heated to 400 degrees C, and therefore benefit from being connected tothe AC supply, "electrochemical cells" which have extremely low power consumption are nowavailable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_detector  The device needs merely to 'wake up' occasionally, maybe every minute or so, interrogate the voltage on the electrochemicalcell, and sound the alarm if the limit value is exceeded. The main concern is ensuring that the detector has enough power at the time it is necessaryto alarm to sound that alarm.  The ongoing (non-alarm) power consumption is probably much less than the self-discharge rate of a battery.   Modern alkaline-cells have a shelf-life of in excess of 5 years, andperhaps as much as 10 years, although Wikipedia doesn't state this specifically.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery   http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/non-rechargeable_FAQ.pdf In contrast, a tracking device must actively emit some sort of signal to alert some remote system toits current location, which takes power.  It must also somehow know where it is:  GPS receivers use much less power than they once did, but even that is far greater than that which a tiny battery couldbe expected to provide.   And the amount of power available from "free RF" is obviously quite variable:  If you're 0.5 kilometeraway from a 50Kw television transmitter, that's a lot of signal strength.  Compare that with out inthe boonies, 1 km away from a cell-phone tower is not a lot.  It would make more sense to designa CO detector with solar cells on the bottom, and have people mount it on an outside window, with a rechargeable battery to store enough to get through the night.                      Jim Bell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 12577 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 03:55:52 2016 From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 18:55:52 +0800 Subject: System time as cookie/deanonymization? In-Reply-To: <20160727075858.GD1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160727075858.GD1125@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > > Getting very good approximation of system time from a browser is not > very trivial, but likely writing something like NTP in javascript is > doable. > Haven't tried it, but this JS library claims to return microsecond-resolution system time in a vareity of browsers: https://github.com/medikoo/microtime-x -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 840 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Wed Jul 27 20:33:48 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 20:33:48 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... Message-ID: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. I have 'on the ground' experience from a lifetime of hardcore activism from the lifelong POV of heretic outsider. I've seen this before. A lot. It's basically what "Vanguard orgs" do to un-pc offenders. You could say it's a vicious form of henpecking and it happens in EVERY organization. But believe me... it's the same tactic that scared the living shit out of the LAPD/SD when Chris Dorner did it. If you want Snowden, and you can't get Snowden, and you want Greenwald but... Go after their friends. Dorner wasn't killing cops. He was killing friends and relatives. It's COIN Strategic Hamlet tactic. Worst case, they think, Snowden grow old and sick and dies early worried and feeling guilty because he comes to belive he endangered friends. Like cults ... Like Voodoo... Scientology EXCELS at it. Bohemian Grove... Majick. They "Abandon care", but do different unto others. Get the picture? The people who do this shit are pure evil... I've seen that evil 'on the ground'. The "Red Squads" of the 60s did this shit. I was there... Nothing's changed except the medium and the rapidity with which rumors and innuendo spread... But the tactic? Timeless... Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... Read online: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ theindicter.com The Weaponising Of Social Part 1: The Crucifixion of IOError by The Indicter Thanks to a small group of supposed anonymity-protecting privacy activists thousands of people now know the name of Jacob Appelbaum’s fiancée`. Even those that didn’t want to. We found it out by reading an extremely controversial website launched a week ago, that had a few sparse accounts of some nasty sounding happenings allegedly involving Jacob, with promises of more to come. No one truly concerned with privacy issues should care if Jacob has a fiancée let alone who she is, out of respect for his right to a private life and because it is patently obvious that attacks on him shouldn’t extend to her. Her name was later removed after the bulk of the damage had been done, without any editorial admission that it had ever been there in the first place. Unfortunately, that simple yet far-reaching invasion of privacy, is only the tip of the iceberg. [Update 12/06/16: Detractors are claiming the above is factually incorrect as they say Appelbaum is no longer engaged. The source was the smear website itself, which named Appelbaum’s ‘partner’, then removed her name and called her his ‘fiancée’, and now implies past tense. IMO, who he is or isn’t engaged to is frankly his own business. The point stands.] Preamble In a strange paradox, Jacob Appelbaum’s accusers both want to deny any relevance between their accusations and him being a known target of the US government as a result of the nature of his work, while having the clearly stated aim of wanting to prevent him from being able to continue it. Even as they are being dwarfed, swept aside and forgotten in the controversy, the topics on which Jacob Appelbaum and WikiLeaks work are much larger and more important than any individual. Those who concertedly dedicate themselves to such causes are unjustly forced to quite literally risk our safety, our families, our livelihoods, our citizenships, our liberty and everything we own, in our fight to preserve our ideals and our planet. The high stakes in a situation like this demand more than knee-jerk reactions, hearsay, and because-all-my-friends-say, when one of us is attacked or discredited. They deserve the investment of time; of serious, weighty yet measured consideration; analysis; and investigation. All of the elements that should be prerequisite to forming any intellectual opinon, let alone one where reputations and potentially lives are at stake. But we are yet to see any of that, at least anything more in-depth than a series of personal statements via “Twitlonger”. Just a whole lot of uproar; a whole lot more silence; and a bunch of axe-grinding. With very little actual analysis, because the topic of rape is so taboo that most people are shit scared of approaching it objectively. As such, this post should be subtitled “We Owe IO More Than 600 Words”. Because we do. We owe him much, much more than that. We owe it to him and to our causes, to find out the truth. Preamble dispensed with, I’m going to give some historical context to what made me write this article and analyse the claims made on and by the anti-IO website. In Part 2 of this article, we will look into the main personalities that appear to be driving this, discuss some of the environmental factors affecting the response and get into the wider context, which is all but being ignored Lessons Long-Since Learned The website now being widely sourced as justification for dismantling Appelbaum’s career and reputation does as much to discredit itself as it does to discredit Jacob. That the name of the female closest to him was disclosed in a forum that claims to exist to protect women was not the first red flag. Several years ago, a situation unfolded where a prominent activist (Activist A) was privately accused of rape by another activist (Activist B). This was then broadcast far and wide through the creation of a Twitter account that purported to be Activist B talking directly and openly about her first hand experience of being raped by Activist A. Many fell for it, and instantaneously an online frenzy was being whisked up against Activist A. For all the same – on the surface – seemingly valid reasons that we see people turning on Jacob Appelbaum for now. However, when I read the tweets of the account calling for the persecution of Activist A, I innately knew that what I was reading was not the words of a rape survivor. It came across to me as someone trying to posture themselves as one, out of empathy and/or indignation, rather than legitimately recounting an actual firsthand memory of a personal experience. So I did the socially unacceptable but morally right thing and spoke out. While people were aghast that I dared to question a “victim” – the facade soon crumbled and it turned out that my instincts were absolutely correct. The account claiming to be a rape victim was not Activist B at all. It was Activist C, her boyfriend, who had (according to Activist B, without her knowledge) taken it upon himself to impersonate her and attack Activist A in public after she had raised issues in confidence. There had been some question of infidelity, she had privately claimed lack of consent, Activist C had decided that Activist A’s life should be ruined as a result, and gone public. Whether or not Activist A ever did in fact rape Activist B got lost in the controversy of Activist C’s foolish meddling in the entire situation. Activist A claimed no. Activist B claimed yes. Activist C permanently obscured the situation by his actions. So how was I able to immediately identify, on gut feeling, that this anonymous account claiming to be a rape victim was not a rape victim? And why did I risk my “social capital” to speak out on such a highly contentious topic? Because people who are not survivors of rape cannot competently impersonate survivors of rape. They think the act itself is the whole story but it is just a tiny fraction of it. So when they attempt to concoct the scenario, they always limit it to the specific event rather than the holistic experience, the emotional journey. Rape Testimony Real rape testimony is 20% what physically happened and 80% how it affected us. It is visceral. It is memories and shapes and impressions and images. It is sights and smells and feelings, a twisted nostalgia we would desperately like to free ourselves from but cannot ever. It is asymmetrical and it evolves. It unfolds. The expression of it is a cathartic, painful release but a necessary step in the healing. It is not a telegram. It is not a thematical construct with set form or submission rules. They are not a fixed length. Nor fixed sentence structures. They do not have a statistical linguistic pattern. They are not uniform. They ebb and flow in proportion to the victim’s telling. They sway and move, mobile in the outpouring of emotion, of grief. When multiple examples of rape testimonies are compared side by side, they don’t conform in any way save in their effective translation of trauma, of a raw and primal pain. So when I realised the extent to which the accounts on the anti-Jacob website do conform and began to note other anomalies, huge alarm bells started ringing. Speaking From Experience As someone intimately acquainted with the plight of survivors, you can feel inside you when something is just not right with a situation like this. As a survivor, my personal obligation to other victims and to the truth has led me to speak up several times in the past – even when it is utterly humiliating, damaging to my reputation or even outright dangerous to do so. This is not an expectation I have of others – I have the benefit of the passage of time, maturity, experience and healing – water under the bridge – that many others don’t. Thus I spoke out in an article addressing statements made by the Minister of Police and the grotesquely poor conduct of NZ cops in handling sexual assault including my own historical abduction and gang rape. I likewise spoke the difficult and humiliating truth against the notorious ‘FBI’ snitch Sabu when he assumed the identity of one of my friends in order to target me sexually, in an attempt to entrap me. I spoke out about my favourite publication in the world when a new staffer there published a ridiculous pile of rape apologist bullshit. I spoke out against the self-admitted serial pack rapists known as The RoastBusters who weren’t even so much as arrested after bragging about stupefying and pack-raping dozens of 13-16 year old girls. Then I spoke out against media’s irresponsible reporting on the issue. And again, when the Minister of Justice used the plight of the many Roastbusters victims who had received no justice whatsoever, in order to falsely justify the passage of anti-trolling legislation. Even though it triggered the hell out of me to do so, I attended protest events, supported movements, and covered live actions in support of survivors, and in defiance of the repressive tactics wielded by New Zealand’s blatantly corrupt and incompetent police forces, who so profoundly fail survivors, and the public. As faithfully as I spoke out in all those cases, so must I speak out too when I believe that rape testimony may be being falsely manufactured, or manipulated, or misrepresented, or used to serve the ulterior motives and agenda of someone(s) who may not be rape survivors at all. “Believe victims“, some people say. The key word is not believe. The key word is victims. Not “believe any two-bit twat(s) who impersonate survivors and/or edit rape testimony because they have something to gain by smearing someone all over the net, in the name of other victims.” Especially when in doing so, knowingly or not, those someone(s) are also serving the interests of The Empire and damaging movements that people pay dearly to create, build and sustain. (If you are in any doubt about this take note that among the first people gloating about Jacob Appelbaum’s perceived downfall was in fact, Sabu.) For The Empire, I can assure you, does not give the slightest flying shit about rape victims, unless they can be used to its advantage. On a daily basis, it perpetuates and facilitates mass rape all over the world, while expending tax dollars to cement and maintain all of the societal and environmental conditions that create rape culture. The double-edged sword of the taboo of rape was constantly wielded against Julian Assange and his supporters over the last five years, albeit with ever-dwindling effectiveness. Allegations of rape against information activists are a lose-lose situation for us but a ‘win’ for our enemies, and that is again apparent in Appelbaum’s case. The end result is a real-life example of why these types of accusations are such an efficient tool for those wishing to utterly devastate and incapacitate a perceived rival. It emboldens the targets enemies and silences their friends. It isolates them and eclipses all their prior undertakings. For all these reasons I cannot merely sit silent, or put out an ambiguous 600-word opinion piece sitting on a fence. Instead I did what I do best. I read, read, read, read and read more. Dug, investigated and analysed. The following, is my findings. More: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 20:28:06 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2016 23:28:06 -0400 Subject: US NY DA Wants Crypto Rolled Back Message-ID: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/vance-phone-decrypt-iccs,news-23050.html Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. called on Apple and Google to weaken their device encryption, arguing that thousands of crimes remained unsolved because no one can crack into the perpetrators' phones. Vance, speaking at the International Conference on Cyber Security here, said that law enforcement officials did not need an encryption "backdoor," sidestepping a concern of computer-security experts and device makers alike. Instead, Vance said, he only wanted the encryption standards rolled back to the point where the companies themselves can decrypt devices, but police cannot. This situation existed until September 2014, when Apple pushed out iOS 8, which Apple itself cannot decrypt. "Tim Cook was absolutely right when he told his shareholders that the iPhone changed the world," Of course without actually seeing what's on the phones such claims "unsolved" cannot be made. Even more stupid since telcos, providers and NSA have backups of same data. From grarpamp at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 23:33:51 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 02:33:51 -0400 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 7/27/16, Rayzer wrote: > A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. > http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ The follow on piece has been said to be insightful... http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-2-stomping-on-ioerrors-grave/ There's excellent historical and running coverage here, you can clone, contribute, and add any missing elements to it... https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor/blob/master/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor.md There does seem to be some muting of former tone in todays last post (which is notably closed for comment)... https://blog.torproject.org/blog/jacob-appelbaum-leaves-tor-project https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement https://blog.torproject.org/blog/statement-0 You're probably right that history is likely to look poorly upon those who participated in this, even if only for process used, and may thus be likely to hold an ironic cloud of question / irrelavance over them, to include damping any would be global action / stage they might wish to participate in. From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 28 07:49:13 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 07:49:13 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[WAR]_Fw:_=e2=80=9cThe_Real_Terrorist_Was_Me_And_The_?= =?UTF-8?Q?Real_Terrorism_Is_This_Occupation=e2=80=9d_|_Ex_U.S._Soldier.?= In-Reply-To: <20160728064731.GP26012@x220-a02> References: <20160728064731.GP26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <19e8243c-0c1c-610e-d95f-18357aa6720a@riseup.net> On 07/27/2016 11:47 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | > Ex U.S. Soldier > July 27, 2016 by Dane Arr > http://prepareforchange.net/2016/07/27/the-real-terrorist-was-me-and-the-real-terrorism-is-this-occupation-ex-u-s-soldier/ > > Many of us have been awake to the reality of the world being dominated > by a Cabal, using control of the media , banking and governments to wage > war on innocent people, all of it facilitated by a high level agreement > on “population control”, which has become an agreement to decimate > populations whenever possible using every policy that they (the Cabal) > can implement. At this point, in Cabal controlled countries, almost > every function of government, originally created to serve the public, > now serves the depopulation agenda. Healthcare, food production, law > enforcement, the judiciary, media and in the case of this Youtube video > the act of patriotism and defending one’s country has been subverted to > become a part of the doctrine of “continuous war” wherein troops are > deployed to defend their country under false pretenses and then > encouraged to believe everyone there is a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, > and that they should be killed under the flimsiest of pretexts. When > they do, there is no accountability, other than being rewarded for doing > so. > > This has been the case since the Vietnam War and 911 triggered invasion > of Afghanistan and Iraq set off the most egregious case of this mindless > slaughter of innocents. The soldiers involved enlist under false > impressions about what they will be doing, and then are lured into what > can only be called mass murder by the situations they are thrust into > and the mind control they are subjected to. > > This young man has come forward, just as so many have in the past, > filled with sorrow and remorse over what has happened in his life. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lHWifCtWM > > > ----- Forwarded message from Jim ----- > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:05:25 +1000 > From: Jim > Subject: “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | Ex U.S. Soldier. > > I wish that every human being on this planet look at this. > > “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | Ex U.S. Soldier. > > http://prepareforchange.net/2016/07/27/the-real-terrorist-was-me-and-the-real-terrorism-is-this-occupation-ex-u-s-soldier/ > ----- End forwarded message ----- > Haven't watched yet so I don't know if it's the same IVAW guy who said that a few years ago, but it's good to see that MEME going around. Here's a video I mashed up a while back exhorting soldiers to rise up and desert their posts. Stop Thinking Like An American! Start Thinking About Humanity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTuzFpPi6xg Footage of VVAW's Congressional steps medal tossing contest (they were all winners in my book), Tom Morello and Outernational's "Sir NO SIR", and Asian Dub Foundation's "American Psychosis" gleaned from Adbuster's CD Live Without Dead Time. Believe it or not Youtube flagged it for copyright material because of a particularly crude marching ditty used at the beginning of Outernational's tune, despite the fact the rights were already paid for by the artists. Fuck 'em. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 27 16:08:30 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 09:08:30 +1000 Subject: Civil Disobedience prize/ monetary award Message-ID: <20160727230830.GM26012@x220-a02> July 27th, 2016 Disobedience Has Its Award http://fossforce.com/2016/07/disobedience-award/#more-1594540 Christine Hall Civil disobedience gets its due with the creation of a special award that was announced at last week’s Forbidden Research symposium at MIT. News & Analysis As one whose early early political education, after I was old enough to quit listening to my father and think for myself, came largely from the various civil disobedience factions in the 1960s, it’s heartening to see that disobedience now has an award. So far it’s one off, but if successful might be repeated and perhaps be awarded annually. The award will also offer the recipient more than mere accolades, as it’s attached to a $250,000 prize. The MIT Media Lab Disobediance award was announced at Thursday’s Forbidden Research symposium ( http://www.media.mit.edu/events/forbidden/overview ) at MIT and was later the subject of a blog post by Joi Ito ( https://medium.com/mit-media-lab/rewarding-disobedience-ae194d9f0785#.i6se1wt9h ), the director of MIT Media Lab. The cash comes by way of a donation from Reid Hoffman, the executive chairman of LinkedIn, who evidently has some disposable cash after last month’s announced deal that will see Microsoft taking control of the social site he co-founded for $26.2 billion. According to Ito, the award “will go to a person or group engaged in what we believe is excellent disobedience for the benefit of society. The disobedience that we would like to call out is the kind that seeks to change society in a positive way, and is consistent with a set of key principles. The principles include non-violence, creativity, courage, and taking responsibility for one’s actions. The disobedience can be in – but is not limited to – the fields of scientific research, civil rights, freedom of speech, human rights, and the freedom to innovate.” Michael Petricone with the Consumer Electronics Association, has tweeted a suggestion ( https://twitter.com/mpetricone/status/757524702206259200 ) that the award be named in honor of hactivist Aaron Swartz. On Tuesday, Mike Masnick seconded that notion ( https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160725/23412635066/mit-media-lab-launched-disobedience-award-funded-reid-hoffman.shtml?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20techdirt%2Ffeed%20%28Techdirt%29 ) on Techdirt. I’ll gladly throw my hat into that ring. MIT owes him at least that much. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 27 17:14:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 10:14:34 +1000 Subject: [RUS] USA media meltdown (e.g. "It's Official: Hillary Clinton Is Running Against Vladimir Putin") Message-ID: <20160728001434.GA11990@x220-a02> US Regime Media in Full Meltdown Mode Over Trump's NATO Remarks http://russia-insider.com/en/us-regime-media-gets-its-panties-bunch-over-trumps-nato-remarks/ri15773 From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 07:21:35 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 11:21:35 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> Message-ID: OT, but it's a cute and interesting idea! :) Little tender kisses, take care! :* Ceci ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cecilia Tanaka" Date: Jul 28, 2016 11:16 AM Subject: Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python To: "python-brasil at googlegroups.com" Ow, que fofura! *o* Beijinhos carinhosos e ternurinhas! <3 Ceci ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Justin Seitz" Date: Jul 28, 2016 10:58 AM Subject: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python To: "List about Data Driven Journalism and Open Data in Jounrnalism" Hey List! I just published a new blog post on how to use Python to discover and scan hidden services using Python and OnionScan. I would definitely be interested to hear your feedback! http://www.automatingosint.com/blog/2016/07/dark-web-osint-with-python-and-onionscan-part-one/ Thanks, Justin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1545 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 07:27:48 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 11:27:48 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> Message-ID: You all already know my oppinion about this subject. I love and trust Jake, and I signed this manifest as a lawyer, not as her friend. https://ourresponse.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 218 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 28 09:05:18 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:05:18 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> Message-ID: <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. -- John > On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:21 AM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > OT, but it's a cute and interesting idea! :) > > Little tender kisses, take care! :* > > Ceci > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Cecilia Tanaka" > Date: Jul 28, 2016 11:16 AM > Subject: Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python > To: "python-brasil at googlegroups.com" > > Ow, que fofura! *o* > > Beijinhos carinhosos e ternurinhas! <3 > > Ceci > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Justin Seitz" > Date: Jul 28, 2016 10:58 AM > Subject: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python > To: "List about Data Driven Journalism and Open Data in Jounrnalism" > > Hey List! > > I just published a new blog post on how to use Python to discover and scan hidden services using Python and OnionScan. I would definitely be interested to hear your feedback! > > http://www.automatingosint.com/blog/2016/07/dark-web-osint-with-python-and-onionscan-part-one/ > > Thanks, > > Justin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1944 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 09:36:44 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:36:44 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 1:05 PM, "John Newman" wrote: > > Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. There are lots of interesting projects in the whole world, wow! It's always fascinating to think about all the possibilities! (*o*) #love <3 I am not a programmer, but you don't need to be a programmer to see beauty in some ideas and codes. I like open data and strange crazy stuff. :) < http://thegovlab.org/we-want-to-hear-from-you-what-is-the-value-of-open-data-for-developing-economies/> I already saw cute Brazilian projects using Python in security area and a lovely project about a possibly safer cell phone, making interesting changes in CyanogenMod (USP, you will appreciate it, @Oda. Already saw it in person, yay!), but most of the ideas are under construction and development yet. I will share information when ready. :) I don't code, but code is cute! <3 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1352 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 04:29:30 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:29:30 +0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> Message-ID: > > On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 08:33:48PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. > ... > Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... > Read online: > > http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ > > Oh YEAH! Thank you Rayzer! Suzie Dawson has done a tremendous investigation and very broad cover of this smear campaign against Appelbaum/it's origin, falseness and mendacity. Zenaan Harkness > Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own > life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and > become such a powerful voice for justice. > > Indeed, Zen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1116 bytes Desc: not available URL: From afalex169 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 04:41:21 2016 From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JDQu9C10LrRgdCw0L3QtNGA?=) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:41:21 +0300 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BWAR=5D_Fw=3A_=E2=80=9CThe_Real_Terrorist_Was_Me_And_The_R?= =?UTF-8?Q?eal_Terrorism_Is_This_Occupation=E2=80=9D_=7C_Ex_U=2ES=2E_Soldier=2E?= In-Reply-To: <20160728064731.GP26012@x220-a02> References: <20160728064731.GP26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: Thank you Zen and Jim. No matter how many times i hear it... or read about it... every single time i hear/read or see one of the fractions of the disaster happening on our planet... i just cry from the depth of my heart. No, i don't cry for 10 minutes with tons of water, but i cry like every Man/Soldier of Truth. One minute with two or three tears. . 2016-07-28 9:47 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness : > “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | > Ex U.S. Soldier > July 27, 2016 by Dane Arr > > http://prepareforchange.net/2016/07/27/the-real-terrorist-was-me-and-the-real-terrorism-is-this-occupation-ex-u-s-soldier/ > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lHWifCtWM > > > ----- Forwarded message from Jim ----- > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 27 22:39:52 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:39:52 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and become such a powerful voice for justice. Thanks for posting this Rayzer... important to get out this message. Regards, Zenaan On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 08:33:48PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > A pretty good rundown of how social disruption works. ... > Lots of links and embedded images of tweets etc in-post... > Read online: > http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ > > theindicter.com > > The Weaponising Of Social Part 1: The Crucifixion of IOError > > by The Indicter > > Thanks to a small group of supposed anonymity-protecting privacy > activists thousands of people now know the name of Jacob Appelbaum’s > fiancée`. Even those that didn’t want to. > > We found it out by reading an extremely controversial website launched a > week ago, that had a few sparse accounts of some nasty sounding > happenings allegedly involving Jacob, with promises of more to come. > > No one truly concerned with privacy issues should care if Jacob has a > fiancée let alone who she is, out of respect for his right to a private > life and because it is patently obvious that attacks on him shouldn’t > extend to her. > > Her name was later removed after the bulk of the damage had been done, > without any editorial admission that it had ever been there in the first > place. > > Unfortunately, that simple yet far-reaching invasion of privacy, is only > the tip of the iceberg. > > [Update 12/06/16: Detractors are claiming the above is factually > incorrect as they say Appelbaum is no longer engaged. The source was the > smear website itself, which named Appelbaum’s ‘partner’, then removed > her name and called her his ‘fiancée’, and now implies past tense. IMO, > who he is or isn’t engaged to is frankly his own business. The point > stands.] > > Preamble > > In a strange paradox, Jacob Appelbaum’s accusers both want to deny any > relevance between their accusations and him being a known target of the > US government as a result of the nature of his work, while having the > clearly stated aim of wanting to prevent him from being able to continue it. ... From jnn at synfin.org Thu Jul 28 12:50:08 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:50:08 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: On July 28, 2016 12:36:44 PM EDT, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >On Jul 28, 2016 1:05 PM, "John Newman" wrote: >> >> Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. > >There are lots of interesting projects in the whole world, wow! It's >always fascinating to think about all the possibilities! (*o*) #love ><3 > >I am not a programmer, but you don't need to be a programmer to see >beauty >in some ideas and codes. I like open data and strange crazy stuff. :) > Agree! I do code all the time at work but it's mostly script fu, shell scripts, or, increasingly porting perl to Python or expanding old perl code. I haven't written more than a few lines of C for like 10 years. Keep meaning to look into using Android Studio or XCode... But always end up back in vim, hacking on little unixy stuff ;) John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 12:23:39 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:23:39 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:39:52 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own > life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and > become such a powerful voice for justice. > > Thanks for posting this Rayzer... important to get out this message. What message. appelbaum is a corrupt piece of shit and he got what he deserves, regardless of where the blow came from. what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. From zen at freedbms.net Wed Jul 27 23:47:32 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:47:32 +1000 Subject: [WAR] Fw: =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=9CThe_Real_Terr?= =?utf-8?Q?orist_Was_Me_And_The_Real_Terrorism_Is_This_Occupation?= =?utf-8?B?4oCd?= | Ex U.S. Soldier. Message-ID: <20160728064731.GP26012@x220-a02> “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | Ex U.S. Soldier July 27, 2016 by Dane Arr http://prepareforchange.net/2016/07/27/the-real-terrorist-was-me-and-the-real-terrorism-is-this-occupation-ex-u-s-soldier/ Many of us have been awake to the reality of the world being dominated by a Cabal, using control of the media , banking and governments to wage war on innocent people, all of it facilitated by a high level agreement on “population control”, which has become an agreement to decimate populations whenever possible using every policy that they (the Cabal) can implement. At this point, in Cabal controlled countries, almost every function of government, originally created to serve the public, now serves the depopulation agenda. Healthcare, food production, law enforcement, the judiciary, media and in the case of this Youtube video the act of patriotism and defending one’s country has been subverted to become a part of the doctrine of “continuous war” wherein troops are deployed to defend their country under false pretenses and then encouraged to believe everyone there is a “terrorist” or “insurgent”, and that they should be killed under the flimsiest of pretexts. When they do, there is no accountability, other than being rewarded for doing so. This has been the case since the Vietnam War and 911 triggered invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq set off the most egregious case of this mindless slaughter of innocents. The soldiers involved enlist under false impressions about what they will be doing, and then are lured into what can only be called mass murder by the situations they are thrust into and the mind control they are subjected to. This young man has come forward, just as so many have in the past, filled with sorrow and remorse over what has happened in his life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lHWifCtWM ----- Forwarded message from Jim ----- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:05:25 +1000 From: Jim Subject: “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | Ex U.S. Soldier. I wish that every human being on this planet look at this. “The Real Terrorist Was Me And The Real Terrorism Is This Occupation” | Ex U.S. Soldier. http://prepareforchange.net/2016/07/27/the-real-terrorist-was-me-and-the-real-terrorism-is-this-occupation-ex-u-s-soldier/ ----- End forwarded message ----- From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 28 16:54:08 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:54:08 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2c69a89e-9553-7912-a6f2-e9b316d399e7@riseup.net> +10x1e6 Kisses! Rr And bring chocolate! On 07/28/2016 01:54 PM, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" > wrote: > > > > > > https://ourresponse.org/ > > > > >we know that there are struggles around sexism. > > > > sexism? What? > > > > >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not > destroy the movement > > > > What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? > > > > > > > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism > > > > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled > objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just > upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! > It can't get any more self-parodic than this... > > Juan, I love you, but you are very 'mal cogido' and need chocolate > desperately, hunfs! You know I don't respect men with more > premenstrual tension than me, ugh! :P > > Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not > a feminazi. If I was a feminazi, I would pretend being a victim right > now, making lots of drama, writing fake statements about how much you, > bad bad Juan, make me feel horrible because I am a poor and fragile > little girl and I need the group's protection, oooh... Poor me! > Someone, please, help me! When it is convenient, I am not able of > doing anything by mylself, in special without spread all the drama and > hate in a twitter timeline or stupid Facebook posts! :'( > > I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. Same rights, dear. It's more > fun and interesting being a girl and, as said before, I can do the > same things than you, but using make-up, dress and high heels. And > lots of pearls, oink oink! :D > > Do you remember when those "victims" wrote that some women were using > their sexuality to attack other women? Ah! When they are supposedly > raped, Jake is guilty. When I am raped and tell publicly what means > being a real victim, I am using my sexuality against other women. Do > you understand the difference? I do not. > > The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, in never using > sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. > > Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3328 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 12:58:16 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:58:16 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> > > https://ourresponse.org/ >we know that there are struggles around sexism. sexism? What? >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy the movement What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 13:54:44 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:54:44 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > https://ourresponse.org/ > > >we know that there are struggles around sexism. > > sexism? What? > > >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy the movement > > What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? > > > > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism > > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... Juan, I love you, but you are very 'mal cogido' and need chocolate desperately, hunfs! You know I don't respect men with more premenstrual tension than me, ugh! :P Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not a feminazi. If I was a feminazi, I would pretend being a victim right now, making lots of drama, writing fake statements about how much you, bad bad Juan, make me feel horrible because I am a poor and fragile little girl and I need the group's protection, oooh... Poor me! Someone, please, help me! When it is convenient, I am not able of doing anything by mylself, in special without spread all the drama and hate in a twitter timeline or stupid Facebook posts! :'( I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. Same rights, dear. It's more fun and interesting being a girl and, as said before, I can do the same things than you, but using make-up, dress and high heels. And lots of pearls, oink oink! :D Do you remember when those "victims" wrote that some women were using their sexuality to attack other women? Ah! When they are supposedly raped, Jake is guilty. When I am raped and tell publicly what means being a real victim, I am using my sexuality against other women. Do you understand the difference? I do not. The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, in never using sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2424 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 14:13:43 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:13:43 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:54:44 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > > > https://ourresponse.org/ > > > > >we know that there are struggles around sexism. > > > > sexism? What? > > > > >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not > > >destroy > the movement > > > > What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? > > > > > > > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism > > > > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled > objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just > upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! > It can't get any more self-parodic than this... > > Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not > a feminazi. But that doesn't prevent you from working with feminanzis, apparentely... > > I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. You shouldn't be playing feminazi games then. Regardless my comments are about 'ourresponse.org', not you. > The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, False. They believe in 'sexism' and the they are corrupt supporters of the pentagon's 'tor project'. If they believed in 'justice' they would never support a guy who gets 100K per year from the US state while pretending to be an 'anarchist'. What kind of fucking game is that. But if you want to be part of the group that believes in 'sexism' and supports garbage like the tor project fine, don't complain if you get called out though. > in never using > sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'. > > Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* Yeah. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 14:30:55 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:30:55 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579a78b0.d030c80a.1d734.a77c@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:02:49 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a > > fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting > > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. > > Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. > > When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their > heart. Yeah, 100K per year should buy you a decent actor or marketing monkey. Lefty anarchist. LMAO. > I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have > been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. Appoelbaum is as corrupt as all his tor buddies are. Did you catch that little 'mistake' about EVEN having 'ex' CIA employees working for them? When was that? Oh that was more than a year ago. Did you learn that because appelbaum 'disclosed' it, more than a year ago? Nope, the corrupt fuck covered it up. Just like all the rest of stuff he covered up, and we'll never know about. > > Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own > truths. Let me know when he speaks one single truth. > o > > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, > > but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. From rayzer at riseup.net Thu Jul 28 18:37:22 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:37:22 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=e2=80=99t_delete_shit_no?= =?UTF-8?Q?thing.=22?= Message-ID: Apple’s iMessage too! ("Signal leaves virtually nothing.") Quote source @thegrugq, Twitter https://twitter.com/thegrugq/status/758833939020521472 WhatsApp Forensic Artifacts: Chats Aren’t Being Deleted Posted on July 28, 2016 Sorry, folks, while experts are saying the encryption checks out in WhatsApp, it looks like the latest version of the app tested leaves forensic trace of all of your chats, even after you’ve deleted, cleared, or archived them… even if you “Clear All Chats”. In fact, the only way to get rid of them appears to be to delete the app entirely. To test, I installed the app and started a few different threads. I then archived some, cleared, some, and deleted some threads. I made a second backup after running the “Clear All Chats” function in WhatsApp. None of these deletion or archival options made any difference in how deleted records were preserved. In all cases, the deleted SQLite records remained intact in the database. More, including 'How WhatsApp Can Fix This': http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6143 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 14:47:19 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:47:19 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 6:16 PM, "juan" wrote: > > But that doesn't prevent you from working with feminanzis, apparentely... Oh, Juan... I am a lawyer. I work with all kinds of monsters, like other jurists, politicals, feminazis, etc. I wanted to work with pokemons or dragons and unicorns, but it's what I have in the moment! :P > You shouldn't be playing feminazi games then. Regardless my comments are about 'ourresponse.org', not you. Oh, sorry for my ego trip, hihi! :) > But if you want to be part of the group that believes in 'sexism' and supports garbage like the tor project fine, don't complain if you get called out though. Juan, I am not playing a game. I can't say the same about all the "players" of these stories about the Tor Project. It's a bad soap opera, with bad actors. I can answer strictly for me and about me, in this case. :-/ > Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'. Hmm... Not exactly, dear. I have a vagina, Juan. It's natural for me believe in sexism, because I live the sexism all the days. Theoretically, I should be considered an equal, but the world doesn't work this way. And it becomes even worse when bad people hide themselves behind politically correct lies in a hypocritical society. > > Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* > > Yeah. Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1692 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 15:03:21 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:03:21 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 6:47 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2016 6:16 PM, "juan" wrote: > > > > Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* > > > > Yeah. > > Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/ It's OT in this thread, but we all will need more chocolate, Juan dear. Meh! :( < https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/new-us-cyber-security-policy-solidifies-fbi-as-key-cyber-leader > < https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fbi-director-speaks-at-cyber-security-gathering > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 15:52:26 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:52:26 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 4:50 PM, "John" wrote: > > Agree! I do code all the time at work but it's mostly script fu, shell scripts, or, increasingly porting perl to Python or expanding old perl code. > > I haven't written more than a few lines of C for like 10 years. Keep meaning to look into using Android Studio or XCode... But always end up back in vim, hacking on little unixy stuff ;) No false modesty, John, I am the worst programmer of my country! And you know, I live in a huge country, hahaha!! ;D My coding style is very famous here and everybody can learn it easily. "I hate programming. I hate programming. Oh, God, it works!!! I f*cking love programming!!! I want to do it forever, yay!!! Sh¡t, what happened now?! I hate programming again! Code, code..." :P Hahaha!!! I flirt with a lot of languages for curiosity, but my heart belongs to Python. Well, at least all my pythonist friends are kicking me hardly because of ipython 5.0. etc, etc... I need to see it yet, whoops! :( They are the cutest programmers here and I love them, but... meh, I am feeling very very lazy and my real hobby in the last days is purring in the bed, with books, cute fluffy toys, blankets and smooth jazz... #meowfeelings (=^‥^=) Puuuuurrr... Rom rom rom... ~(=^‥^) Take care, meow! I will be kittening here! （＾ω＾） (Yup, still doing voluntary works and trying to bake the perfect crunchy Italian bread, but I need a brief vacation.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1655 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 17:43:42 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 21:43:42 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <2c69a89e-9553-7912-a6f2-e9b316d399e7@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <2c69a89e-9553-7912-a6f2-e9b316d399e7@riseup.net> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 9:02 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > +10x1e6 > > Kisses! > > Rr > > And bring chocolate! Muuuuah! Kisses, hugs and creamy hot chocolate, dear! <3 PS: - I confess I was wondering about those discussions in the tor-talk list, instead thinking about chocolate, my love. They still have good people in the project and I like some of them, but I don't trust the Tor Project anymore. At least, not for now. :( Well, let's make hot chocolate and try to think about cute things only, purring like a lazy cat, or I will have insomnia and nightmares with the FBI! :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 18:34:39 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:34:39 -0300 Subject: Scanning the Dark Web with Python (was Re: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 37, Issue 101) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Justin! Hope you are doing fine! :) I liked your project a lot and forwarded the message you had originally sent to the list "Data Driven Journalism and Open Data in Journalism" to two different lists. A Brazilian guy wants to talk with you about the project. He contacted me and I asked to talk directly to you. And, well, Flipchan sent this cute message now: === On Jul 28, 2016 9:45 PM, "Flipchan" wrote: > > Cant u scan tor in a simplier way?like generating .onion addresses then curl(ing) them with multiple threads in py?:) === Sorry, my programming is still a shame, even worst than my English. Please, may you answer to the questions? I am curious and will forward your answer to Python Brazil list too! :) Thank you very much! Good luck and success! <3 Ceci -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 952 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 18:47:40 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 22:47:40 -0300 Subject: Scanning the Dark Web with Python (was Re: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 37, Issue 101) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Whoops, my bad! Wrong email address. Sorry everybody, Justin included! :P On Jul 28, 2016 10:34 PM, "Cecilia Tanaka" wrote: > Hi, Justin! Hope you are doing fine! :) > > I liked your project a lot and forwarded the message you had originally > sent to the list "Data Driven Journalism and Open Data in Journalism" to > two different lists. > > A Brazilian guy wants to talk with you about the project. He contacted me > and I asked to talk directly to you. And, well, Flipchan sent this cute > message now: > > === > On Jul 28, 2016 9:45 PM, "Flipchan" wrote: > > > > Cant u scan tor in a simplier way?like generating .onion addresses then > curl(ing) them with multiple threads in py?:) > === > > Sorry, my programming is still a shame, even worst than my English. > Please, may you answer to the questions? I am curious and will forward > your answer to Python Brazil list too! :) > > Thank you very much! Good luck and success! <3 > > Ceci > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1363 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 20:04:23 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 23:04:23 -0400 Subject: planet.freebsd.org Message-ID: https://planet.freebsd.org/ From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 22:16:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:16:44 -0400 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 7/29/16, Cari Machet wrote: > sim card is detectible without power sauce plox. From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 29 01:18:10 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:18:10 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, > > Cecilia Tanaka: > migraine, insomnia, and really bad mood > All them carbs! Wordlife, Spencer From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 22:21:39 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html The Tor Project Social Contract THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT At The Tor Project, we make tools that help promote and protect the essential human rights of people everywhere. We have a set of guiding principles that make that possible, but for a long time, those principles were more or less unspoken. In order to ensure that project members build a Tor that reflects the commitment to our ideals, we've taken a cue from our friends at Debian and written the Tor Social Contract -- the set of principles that show who we are and why we make Tor. Our social contract is a set of behaviors and goals: not just the promised results we want for our community, but how we achieve them. We want to grow Tor by supporting and advancing these guidelines in our Tor time, while taking care not to undermine them in the rest of our time. The principles can also be used to help recognize when people's actions or intents are hurting Tor. Some of these principles are established norms, things we've been doing every day for a long time, while others are more aspirational -- but all of them are values we want to live in public, and we hope it will make our future choices easier and more open. This social contract is just one of several documents that define our community standards, so if you're looking for things that aren't here (e.g., something that might be in a code of conduct) bear in mind that content might be in a different document. Social goals can be complex. If there is ever tension in the application of the following principles we will always strive to place highest priority on the safety and freedom of any who would use the fruits of our endeavors. The social contract can also help us work through such tensions -- for example, there are times when we might have a need to use tools that are not completely open (contradicting point 2) but opening them would undermine our users' safety (contradicting point 6). Using such a tool should be weighed against how much it's needed to make our technologies usable (point 1). And if we do use such a tool, we must be honest about its capabilities and limits (point 5). Tor is not just software, but a labor of love produced by an international community of people devoted to human rights. This social contract is a promise from our internal community to the rest of the world, affirming our commitment to our beliefs. We are excited to present it to you. 1. We advance human rights by creating and deploying usable anonymity and privacy technologies We believe that privacy, the free exchange of ideas, and access to information are essential to free societies. Through our community standards and the code we write, we provide tools that help all people protect and advance these rights. 2. Open and transparent research and tools are key to our success We are committed to transparency; therefore, everything we release is open and our development happens in the open. Whenever feasible, we will continue to make our source code, binaries, and claims about them open to independent verification. In the extremely rare cases where open development would undermine the security of our users, we will be especially vigilant in our peer review by project members. 3. Our tools are free to access, use, adapt, and distribute The more diverse our users, the less simply being a user of Tor implies about any user, so we aim to create tools that anyone can access and use. We do not restrict access to our tools unless it is for the security of all users, and we design, build, and deploy our tools without collecting identifiable information about our users. We expect the code and research we publish to be improved by many different people, and that is only possible if the tools are free of cost and free to use, copy, modify and redistribute. 4. We make Tor and related technologies ubiquitous through advocacy and education We are not just people who build software, but ambassadors for online freedom. We want everybody in the world to understand that their human rights, particularly of free speech, freedom to access information, and privacy, do not have to disappear when they use the internet, and we do this by teaching people why and how to use Tor. We are always working to make our tools both more secure and more usable, which is why we use our own tools and listen to user feedback. Our vision of a more free society will not be accomplished simply behind a computer screen, and so in addition to writing good code, we also prioritize community outreach and advocacy. 5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related technologies We never intentionally mislead our users nor misrepresent the capabilities of the tools, nor the potential risks associated with using them. Every user should be free to make an informed decision about whether they should use a particular tool and how they should use it. We are responsible for accurately reporting the state of our software, and we work diligently to keep our community informed through our various communication channels. 6. We will never willfully harm our users We take seriously the trust our users have placed in us. Not only will we always do our best to write good code, but it is imperative that we resist any pressure from adversaries who want to harm our users. We will never implement front-doors or back-doors into our projects. In our commitment to transparency, we are honest when we make errors, and we communicate with our users about our plans for improvement. From john at johnlgrubbs.net Thu Jul 28 19:23:10 2016 From: john at johnlgrubbs.net (Me) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:23:10 +0000 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: Cyanogenmod was just killed by M$. Best alternative IMO is CopperheadOS. -John On July 28, 2016 11:36:44 AM CDT, Cecilia Tanaka wrote: >On Jul 28, 2016 1:05 PM, "John Newman" wrote: >> >> Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. > >There are lots of interesting projects in the whole world, wow! It's >always fascinating to think about all the possibilities! (*o*) #love ><3 > >I am not a programmer, but you don't need to be a programmer to see >beauty >in some ideas and codes. I like open data and strange crazy stuff. :) > >< >http://thegovlab.org/we-want-to-hear-from-you-what-is-the-value-of-open-data-for-developing-economies/> > > > > >I already saw cute Brazilian projects using Python in security area and >a >lovely project about a possibly safer cell phone, making interesting >changes in CyanogenMod (USP, you will appreciate it, @Oda. Already >saw it >in person, yay!), but most of the ideas are under construction and >development yet. I will share information when ready. :) > >I don't code, but code is cute! <3 -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 23:30:33 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:30:33 -0400 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! Message-ID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Civil Forfeiture (HBO) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 22:34:25 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:34:25 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579aea03.57a5370a.44210.edcb@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html > > The Tor Project Social Contract > THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT Why do you post that kind of garbage here grarpamp? From flipchan at riseup.net Thu Jul 28 17:38:44 2016 From: flipchan at riseup.net (Flipchan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:38:44 +0200 Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 37, Issue 101 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cant u scan tor in a simplier way?like generating .onion addresses then curl(ing) them with multiple threads in py?:) cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org skrev: (28 juli 2016 23:36:33 CEST) >Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to > cypherpunks at cpunks.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python > (John Newman) > 2. Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python > (Cecilia Tanaka) > 3. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (juan) > 4. Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python (John) > 5. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (juan) > 6. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (Cecilia Tanaka) > 7. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (Zenaan Harkness) > 8. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (juan) > 9. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (Zenaan Harkness) > 10. Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... (juan) > 11. [WAR] "Trump will destroy US foreign policy" - a damn good > thing? (Zenaan Harkness) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:05:18 -0400 >From: John Newman >To: Cecilia Tanaka >Cc: cpunks >Subject: Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python >Message-ID: <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6 at synfin.org> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. > >-- >John > >> On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:21 AM, Cecilia Tanaka > wrote: >> >> OT, but it's a cute and interesting idea! :) >> >> Little tender kisses, take care! :* >> >> Ceci >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Cecilia Tanaka" >> Date: Jul 28, 2016 11:16 AM >> Subject: Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python >> To: "python-brasil at googlegroups.com" >> >> Ow, que fofura! *o* >> >> Beijinhos carinhosos e ternurinhas! <3 >> >> Ceci >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Justin Seitz" >> Date: Jul 28, 2016 10:58 AM >> Subject: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python >> To: "List about Data Driven Journalism and Open Data in Jounrnalism" >> >> Hey List! >> >> I just published a new blog post on how to use Python to discover and >scan hidden services using Python and OnionScan. I would definitely be >interested to hear your feedback! >> >> >http://www.automatingosint.com/blog/2016/07/dark-web-osint-with-python-and-onionscan-part-one/ >> >> Thanks, >> >> Justin >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:36:44 -0300 >From: Cecilia Tanaka >To: cpunks >Subject: Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >On Jul 28, 2016 1:05 PM, "John Newman" wrote: >> >> Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. > >There are lots of interesting projects in the whole world, wow! It's >always fascinating to think about all the possibilities! (*o*) #love ><3 > >I am not a programmer, but you don't need to be a programmer to see >beauty >in some ideas and codes. I like open data and strange crazy stuff. :) > >< >http://thegovlab.org/we-want-to-hear-from-you-what-is-the-value-of-open-data-for-developing-economies/> > > > > >I already saw cute Brazilian projects using Python in security area and >a >lovely project about a possibly safer cell phone, making interesting >changes in CyanogenMod (USP, you will appreciate it, @Oda. Already >saw it >in person, yay!), but most of the ideas are under construction and >development yet. I will share information when ready. :) > >I don't code, but code is cute! <3 >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:23:39 -0300 >From: juan >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291 at mx.google.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:39:52 +1000 >Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> Suzie Dawson is an awesome example of someone who has taken their own >> life experiences of pain, humiliation and presumably devastation, and >> become such a powerful voice for justice. >> >> Thanks for posting this Rayzer... important to get out this message. > > What message. > > appelbaum is a corrupt piece of shit and he got what he > deserves, regardless of where the blow came from. > > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud > who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. > > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but > it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:50:08 -0400 >From: John >To: Cecilia Tanaka , cpunks > >Subject: Re: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > >On July 28, 2016 12:36:44 PM EDT, Cecilia Tanaka > wrote: >>On Jul 28, 2016 1:05 PM, "John Newman" wrote: >>> >>> Thanks! Love stuff like this... this will make an interesting tool. >> >>There are lots of interesting projects in the whole world, wow! It's >>always fascinating to think about all the possibilities! (*o*) #love > >><3 >> >>I am not a programmer, but you don't need to be a programmer to see >>beauty >>in some ideas and codes. I like open data and strange crazy stuff. >:) >> > >Agree! I do code all the time at work but it's mostly script fu, shell >scripts, or, increasingly porting perl to Python or expanding old perl >code. > >I haven't written more than a few lines of C for like 10 years. Keep >meaning to look into using Android Studio or XCode... But always end up >back in vim, hacking on little unixy stuff ;) > >John >-- >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:58:16 -0300 >From: juan >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090 at mx.google.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > >> >> https://ourresponse.org/ > >>we know that there are struggles around sexism. > > sexism? What? > >>We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not destroy >the movement > > What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? > > >> there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism > > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled > objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are > just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our > own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:54:44 -0300 >From: Cecilia Tanaka >To: cpunks >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" wrote: >> > >> > https://ourresponse.org/ >> >> >we know that there are struggles around sexism. >> >> sexism? What? >> >> >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not >destroy >the movement >> >> What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? >> >> >> > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism >> >> Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled >objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just upset >because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! It >can't >get any more self-parodic than this... > >Juan, I love you, but you are very 'mal cogido' and need chocolate >desperately, hunfs! You know I don't respect men with more >premenstrual >tension than me, ugh! :P > >Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not a >feminazi. If I was a feminazi, I would pretend being a victim right >now, >making lots of drama, writing fake statements about how much you, bad >bad >Juan, make me feel horrible because I am a poor and fragile little girl >and >I need the group's protection, oooh... Poor me! Someone, please, help >me! When it is convenient, I am not able of doing anything by mylself, >in >special without spread all the drama and hate in a twitter timeline or >stupid Facebook posts! :'( > >I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. Same rights, dear. It's more >fun >and interesting being a girl and, as said before, I can do the same >things >than you, but using make-up, dress and high heels. And lots of pearls, >oink oink! :D > >Do you remember when those "victims" wrote that some women were using >their >sexuality to attack other women? Ah! When they are supposedly raped, >Jake >is guilty. When I am raped and tell publicly what means being a real >victim, I am using my sexuality against other women. Do you understand >the >difference? I do not. > >The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, in never using >sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. > >Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:02:49 +1000 >From: Zenaan Harkness >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <20160728210249.GT26012 at x220-a02> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud >> who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting >> 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. > >Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. > >When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their >heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have >been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. > >Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own >truths. >o >> even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but >> it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:13:43 -0300 >From: juan >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0 at mx.google.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:54:44 -0300 >Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > >> On Jul 28, 2016 5:02 PM, "juan" wrote: >> > > >> > > https://ourresponse.org/ >> > >> > >we know that there are struggles around sexism. >> > >> > sexism? What? >> > >> > >We should use this moment to grow and make things better, not >> > >destroy >> the movement >> > >> > What movement? The movement of pentagon propagandists? >> > >> > >> > > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism >> > >> > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled >> objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are just >> upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our own medicine! >> It can't get any more self-parodic than this... >> > >> Please, after eating carbohydrates, think a bit and remember I am not >> a feminazi. > > But that doesn't prevent you from working with feminanzis, > apparentely... > > >> >> I am a feminist, not a feminazi, Juan. > > You shouldn't be playing feminazi games then. Regardless my > comments are about 'ourresponse.org', not you. > > > >> The people who signed this petition believe in Justice, > > False. They believe in 'sexism' and the they are corrupt > supporters of the pentagon's 'tor project'. > > If they believed in 'justice' they would never support a guy > who gets 100K per year from the US state while pretending to be > an 'anarchist'. What kind of fucking game is that. > > But if you want to be part of the group that believes in > 'sexism' and supports garbage like the tor project fine, don't > complain if you get called out though. > > >> in never using >> sexism in witches hunter without proofs, without due process. > > > Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'. > >> >> Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* > > Yeah. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 9 >Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:12:42 +1000 >From: Zenaan Harkness >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <20160728211242.GU26012 at x220-a02> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 04:58:16PM -0300, juan wrote: >> > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism >> >> Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled >> objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are >> just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our >> own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... > >May be ioerror got 'just desserts'. It does not look that way to me. > >Also seems the "leak" war (using Wikileaks) going on between warring >factions in North America at the moment is a Good Thing (TM)(C)(R). > >BUT, you may well be right that the harm being caused by USA, all >around >the world, droning people to death day in and day out, is being fuelled >by their well funded tool Tor and that the balance is not in our >favour. >Though I believe that the balance is certainly not in our favour, if >you >have a North American establishment damaging leak, I think you owe it >to >the world to get that leak out there, whether via Wikileaks or some >other mechanism. > >I am barely hopeful for a "soft landing" for the world when the USA's >fiat dollar finally crashes. After the turmoil, it's possible we may >see >some genuine improvements. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:30:55 -0300 >From: juan >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org >Subject: Re: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: > @ioerror et al... >Message-ID: <579a78b0.d030c80a.1d734.a77c at mx.google.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:02:49 +1000 >Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a >> > fraud who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting >> > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. >> >> Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. >> >> When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their >> heart. > > > Yeah, 100K per year should buy you a decent actor or > marketing monkey. Lefty anarchist. LMAO. > > >> I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have >> been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. > > Appoelbaum is as corrupt as all his tor buddies are. > > Did you catch that little 'mistake' about EVEN having 'ex' CIA > employees working for them? When was that? Oh that was more > than a year ago. Did you learn that because appelbaum > 'disclosed' it, more than a year ago? Nope, the corrupt fuck > covered it up. Just like all the rest of stuff he covered up, > and we'll never know about. > > >> >> Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own >> truths. > > Let me know when he speaks one single truth. > > >> o >> > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, >> > but it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:34:01 +1000 >From: Zenaan Harkness >To: CypherPunks >Subject: [WAR] "Trump will destroy US foreign policy" - a damn good > thing? >Message-ID: <20160728213401.GV26012 at x220-a02> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > >Depraved Clinton War Criminal Says Trump Will Destroy US Foreign Policy > >Madeleine Albright openly condoned the slaughter of 500,000 Iraqi >children > >http://www.infowars.com/clinton-war-criminal-says-trump-has-destroyed-us-foreign-policy/ >(Alt: >http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/clinton-war-criminal-says-trump-has-destroyed-us-foreign-policy/ri15903 >) > >CNN rolled out the old war horse Madeleine Albright on Tuesday to push >the Putin conspiracy angle on the DNC leak. > >Albright told the convention Donald Trump had “already done damage” to >American foreign policy “just by running for president.” She said >defeating Trump would represent a defeat for Putin and the Russians. > > “Putin is eager to see Trump win, and that should worry every > American,” she said. “Take it from someone who fled the Iron > Curtain—I know what happens when you give the Russians a green > light.” > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IITvNeh0r0E > > >Secretary of Hate > >The damage inflicted by Albright when she was “Secretary of Hate,” as >Bob Djurdjevic ( http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/Mad.html ) >characterized her time at the State Department, is almost incalculable. > >In 1998, as Bill Clinton unleashed cruise missiles on Iraq, murdering >dozens of civilians in response to Saddam Hussein thumbing his nose at >the United Nations, Albright declared: “If we have to use force, it is >because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. >We see farther into the future.” > >In 2013, she admitted the bombing of Yugoslavia by her boss was >illegal, >but decided it was fair. Clinton teamed up with NATO in 1999 and >conducted 38,400 sorties, including 10,484 strike sorties, in a terror >bombing campaign that lasted 78 days and destroyed infrastructure, >commercial buildings, schools, health institutions, media houses and >cultural monuments. > >In addition to convincing Clinton to bomb Yugoslavia with depleted >uranium and cluster munitions to force Slobodan Milošević to sign the >Rambouillet peace accord, she pushed to send US troops to Bosnia, >according to the recollection of then Chairman of Joint Chiefs of >Staff, >Colin Powell. > >Hillary Clinton celebrated the illegal attack. In October 2000, The New >York Times ( >http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/03/hillarys_war.html ) >reported Clinton “cited American involvement in Bosnia and Kosovo as >examples of foreign engagements she favored on moral and strategic >grounds.” Clinton urged her husband to bomb Yugoslavia without >congressional approval and said what “do we have NATO for if not to >defend our way of life?” > >NATO also defended the way of life of the Kosovo Liberation Army, a >terrorist gang of ethnic Albanian separatists. The KLA effort for an >independent Kosovo supported by Albright and the United States >encouraged similar terrorist groups in the Balkans, the Middle East, >and >Russia. The Kosovo precedent was responsible for inspiring Chechen >terrorists in Russia and the murder of scores of Russian citizens. > > >Career Achievement: 500,000 Dead Children > >Albright’s crowning achievement, however, was the murder of half a >million Iraqi children under a brutal and medieval sanctions regime >imposed on the country by the United States and the United Nations. > > “We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, > that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the > price worth it?” asked Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes asked Albright in > 1996. > > “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price—we think the > price is worth it,” Albright responded. > >On Tuesday, the war criminal Albright warmed up the crowd for Bill >Clinton, described at the time of the Yugoslavia bombing raid by Edward >Herman as the world’s “leading active war criminal.” > >The crowd was clueless about the magnitude of the crimes committed—and >those to be committed if Hillary Clinton wins. The corporate media once >again failed to note the complicity of Albright and Clinton in mass >murder and crimes against humanity, preferring instead to dwell on the >alleged DNC hacking by Vladimir Putin, an accusation without definitive >evidence that is now passed off as a fait accompli. > >-------- > > >------------------------------ > >Subject: Digest Footer > >_______________________________________________ >cypherpunks mailing list >cypherpunks at cpunks.org >https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks > > >------------------------------ > >End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 37, Issue 101 >******************************************** -- Sincerly Flipchan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 9746 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 22:42:40 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:42:40 -0300 Subject: paging tor bots Message-ID: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> the worthless EFF cunt who now rules the 'tor project' corporation vomited : https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor Project." So who are those people who won't be getting any more pentagon money? It's funny how the universal champions of 'transparency' can fire people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that they have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? The tor corporation should stop writing software and devote all their limitless talents to write a universal manual on universal transparency. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 23:09:19 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:09:19 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579aea03.57a5370a.44210.edcb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 29, 2016 2:37 AM, "juan" wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > > > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html > > > > The Tor Project Social Contract > > THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT > > > Why do you post that kind of garbage here grarpamp? Open the link and see the message's date, Juan. Brand new social contract, dear. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 734 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 23:21:33 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:21:33 -0300 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2016 11:23 PM, "Me" wrote: > > Cyanogenmod was just killed by M$. Best alternative IMO is CopperheadOS. Thank you a lot for the tip! :) The guy who is using CyanogenMod is a cute professor and researcher in a public institution here, the USP that mentioned before. Being sincere, he started the project some years ago, so I would consider changes too... :P -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 23:25:56 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:25:56 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579aea03.57a5370a.44210.edcb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579af617.d434c80a.bd235.f782@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:09:19 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > On Jul 29, 2016 2:37 AM, "juan" wrote: > > > > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 > > grarpamp wrote: > > > > > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html > > > > > > The Tor Project Social Contract > > > THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT > > > > > > Why do you post that kind of garbage here grarpamp? > > Open the link and see the message's date, Juan. Brand new social > contract, dear. social contract = laughable nonsense social contract writen by the tor scumbags? three times as nonsensical. Those people should be returning all the tax money they stole, shutting down their fucking 'project' and going home. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 23:28:49 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 03:28:49 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html > > The Tor Project Social Contract > THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT > 5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related > technologies fucking pieces of lying shit - that's what they are. > > 6. We will never willfully harm our users and again. This is a really 'brand new' and impressive 'social contract' eh Cecilia? From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 00:02:24 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 04:02:24 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 29, 2016 3:37 AM, "juan" wrote: > > This is a really 'brand new' and impressive 'social contract' eh Cecilia? It's only a social contract, Juan. I didn't say it is or will be true. And you are sure, it isn't impressive. I am disappointed, but was interesting to know about its existence. You only can criticize what you know that exists, dear. Grarpamp was right sharing this kind of information here. :) PS: - Very late with answers, migraine, insomnia and really bad mood in this exact moment. Please, kick me with tenderness or I will write a fake statement, hahaha!! ;) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 762 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirimir at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 03:44:53 2016 From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 04:44:53 -0600 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579B33A5.80404@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 12:28 AM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 01:21:39 -0400 > grarpamp wrote: > >> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2016-July/000552.html >> >> The Tor Project Social Contract >> THE TOR SOCIAL CONTRACT > >> 5. We are honest about the capabilities and limits of Tor and related >> technologies > > fucking pieces of lying shit - that's what they are. Given misleading bullshit currently on their website, I must agree :( >> 6. We will never willfully harm our users > > > and again. Those are weasel words :( Is it "users", or "cannon fodder"? From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 01:13:45 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:13:45 -0300 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:45:57 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:42:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > > > "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor > > Project." > > > This is how free market work :PPPP Military contractors have nothing to do with the free market. > > This reminds me how Mozilla screwed Brendan Eich (the creator of > javascript) for a legal donation not related with his work. > > > people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that > > they have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? > > > > Not exactly employees, but the bosses of their official bosses are not > public IMHO (maybe few more levels of recursion are needed). Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson suck, right, those are 'anonymous'. But the guys who just got fired are at the bottom of the hiearchy/mafia. From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 01:15:14 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:15:14 -0300 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <579b0fb5.0435c80a.eac4e.fc23@mx.google.com> Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson suck, Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson sucks, From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 01:51:35 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 05:51:35 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <579af6c4.42bb370a.355fc.e93d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Jul 29, 2016 5:29 AM, "Spencer" wrote: > > Hi, > >> >> Cecilia Tanaka: >> migraine, insomnia, and really bad mood >> > > All them carbs! Already tried them. Apparently, carbs are yummy, but don't make miracles. Juan can call me 'mal cogida' too, hahaha!! ;D Had bad news and was banned in another list. Some people are not original, meh! :P Giving Jake any kind of public support means being excluded, banned, rejected, dumped, etc, etc. Always the same noisy drama, bah! ;P I am still the same person, doing and saying exactly the same things, but apparently, I am less charming now. Considering that, one week ago, I was considered 'the cutest person' in that group, my 'awesomeness' ended very fast, hahaha!!! ;) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 968 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 28 14:02:49 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:02:49 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud > who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own truths. o > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but > it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 04:08:51 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:08:51 -0400 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: <20160729090015.GX26012@x220-a02> References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> <361971469772001@web29g.yandex.ru> <20160729090015.GX26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <345F8E2E-A0CF-41E8-8608-939EA0C91E68@synfin.org> On July 29, 2016 5:00:15 AM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 08:00:01AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: >> Do you people have some methods for concentration? I have little >> time after works and one day i start to develop a c++ game i >> started months ago and never looked back, another day i try to >> learn ruby by adding random functionality to an online >todo-listish >> project which will obviously reach a dead end eventually, some >> other days i try pic stuff on breadboards... When i take a timeout >> at work, i try to read papers on network protocols, and sometimes >> bitcoin, and sometimes other crypto stuff... It does give a >> momentary satisfaction, but the thing is, nothing ever gets done >in >> the end. I started to think that being able to reach knowledge >this >> easily (smartphones, wikipedia, sci-hub, etc.) perhaps isn't a >good >> thing, and diverts focus. > >Indeed, in an age where we have unlimited access to information, the >hardest thing can be deciding what to say no to, what to ignore. > >So for success, hone your skill of determining what to ignore, as early >and quickly as possible, so that the limited time you do spend on >anything is spent on worthwhile things. > I don't think Zen's point can be stressed enough... There is literally so much out there, if you really want to learn something well it's important to develop a little tunnel vision, verging on myopia, until you have sufficient mastery... At which point you can branch back out to a broad view and see how your new understanding of informs future research & learning endeavors... I have this exact problem myself. John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 28 14:12:42 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:12:42 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160728211242.GU26012@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 04:58:16PM -0300, juan wrote: > > there needs to be a positive agenda around sexism > > Translation : we *are* feminazis and we have no principled > objection about an aberration like the 'tor project'. We are > just upset because one member of our mafia got a dose of our > own medicine! It can't get any more self-parodic than this... May be ioerror got 'just desserts'. It does not look that way to me. Also seems the "leak" war (using Wikileaks) going on between warring factions in North America at the moment is a Good Thing (TM)(C)(R). BUT, you may well be right that the harm being caused by USA, all around the world, droning people to death day in and day out, is being fuelled by their well funded tool Tor and that the balance is not in our favour. Though I believe that the balance is certainly not in our favour, if you have a North American establishment damaging leak, I think you owe it to the world to get that leak out there, whether via Wikileaks or some other mechanism. I am barely hopeful for a "soft landing" for the world when the USA's fiat dollar finally crashes. After the turmoil, it's possible we may see some genuine improvements. From zen at freedbms.net Thu Jul 28 14:34:01 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:34:01 +1000 Subject: [WAR] "Trump will destroy US foreign policy" - a damn good thing? Message-ID: <20160728213401.GV26012@x220-a02> Depraved Clinton War Criminal Says Trump Will Destroy US Foreign Policy Madeleine Albright openly condoned the slaughter of 500,000 Iraqi children http://www.infowars.com/clinton-war-criminal-says-trump-has-destroyed-us-foreign-policy/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/clinton-war-criminal-says-trump-has-destroyed-us-foreign-policy/ri15903 ) CNN rolled out the old war horse Madeleine Albright on Tuesday to push the Putin conspiracy angle on the DNC leak. Albright told the convention Donald Trump had “already done damage” to American foreign policy “just by running for president.” She said defeating Trump would represent a defeat for Putin and the Russians. “Putin is eager to see Trump win, and that should worry every American,” she said. “Take it from someone who fled the Iron Curtain—I know what happens when you give the Russians a green light.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IITvNeh0r0E Secretary of Hate The damage inflicted by Albright when she was “Secretary of Hate,” as Bob Djurdjevic ( http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/Mad.html ) characterized her time at the State Department, is almost incalculable. In 1998, as Bill Clinton unleashed cruise missiles on Iraq, murdering dozens of civilians in response to Saddam Hussein thumbing his nose at the United Nations, Albright declared: “If we have to use force, it is because we are America. We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see farther into the future.” In 2013, she admitted the bombing of Yugoslavia by her boss was illegal, but decided it was fair. Clinton teamed up with NATO in 1999 and conducted 38,400 sorties, including 10,484 strike sorties, in a terror bombing campaign that lasted 78 days and destroyed infrastructure, commercial buildings, schools, health institutions, media houses and cultural monuments. In addition to convincing Clinton to bomb Yugoslavia with depleted uranium and cluster munitions to force Slobodan Milošević to sign the Rambouillet peace accord, she pushed to send US troops to Bosnia, according to the recollection of then Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, Colin Powell. Hillary Clinton celebrated the illegal attack. In October 2000, The New York Times ( http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/03/hillarys_war.html ) reported Clinton “cited American involvement in Bosnia and Kosovo as examples of foreign engagements she favored on moral and strategic grounds.” Clinton urged her husband to bomb Yugoslavia without congressional approval and said what “do we have NATO for if not to defend our way of life?” NATO also defended the way of life of the Kosovo Liberation Army, a terrorist gang of ethnic Albanian separatists. The KLA effort for an independent Kosovo supported by Albright and the United States encouraged similar terrorist groups in the Balkans, the Middle East, and Russia. The Kosovo precedent was responsible for inspiring Chechen terrorists in Russia and the murder of scores of Russian citizens. Career Achievement: 500,000 Dead Children Albright’s crowning achievement, however, was the murder of half a million Iraqi children under a brutal and medieval sanctions regime imposed on the country by the United States and the United Nations. “We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” asked Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes asked Albright in 1996. “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price—we think the price is worth it,” Albright responded. On Tuesday, the war criminal Albright warmed up the crowd for Bill Clinton, described at the time of the Yugoslavia bombing raid by Edward Herman as the world’s “leading active war criminal.” The crowd was clueless about the magnitude of the crimes committed—and those to be committed if Hillary Clinton wins. The corporate media once again failed to note the complicity of Albright and Clinton in mass murder and crimes against humanity, preferring instead to dwell on the alleged DNC hacking by Vladimir Putin, an accusation without definitive evidence that is now passed off as a fait accompli. -------- From carimachet at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 21:35:15 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:35:15 +0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the cia couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible without power that shit aint heart On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud > > who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting > > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. > > Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. > > When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their > heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have > been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. > > Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own > truths. > o > > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but > > it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2445 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Thu Jul 28 22:47:50 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:47:50 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6ICJEZWxldGluZyBXaGF0c0FwcCBjaGF0cyBkb2VzbuKAmXQgZGVsZXRlIHNoaXQgbm90aGluZy4i?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1762 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 07:51:09 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 07:51:09 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=e2=80=99t_delete_shi?= =?UTF-8?Q?t_nothing.=22?= In-Reply-To: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: On 07/28/2016 10:47 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > I installed signal on my phone with some enthusiasm, but it's > practically useless because no one around me adopted it yet. It's sad > that once a "social" app dominates the market, it's very hard to get > people to switch to better alternatives unless there is a security > scandal or something. Same goes with ring... > Personally I think having to expose the phone number of a smartphone to another user to establish a chat is an incredible security risk in the short and long run and leads to all sorts of metadata harvesting of your unencrypted info. It appears one should keep a low-budget smartphone for that use instead of their main number for better persec. I questioned Morgan Mayhem (Intercept's sysadmin/cybersec guy) about that when he broached how secure signal is (he's one of the developers) on his twitter feed. Never got a reply. Telegram allows the use of an @name instead of exposing your number if you set up an account but I'm unsure what happens when a connection is established and the contact is added to you contact list Rr > 4:53 AM, July 29, 2016, Rayzer : > > Apple’s iMessage too! ("Signal leaves virtually nothing.") > > Quote source @thegrugq, Twitter > https://twitter.com/thegrugq/status/758833939020521472 > > WhatsApp Forensic Artifacts: Chats Aren’t Being Deleted > > Posted on July 28, 2016 > > Sorry, folks, while experts are saying the encryption checks out in > WhatsApp, it looks like the latest version of the app tested leaves > forensic trace of all of your chats, even after you’ve deleted, > cleared, > or archived them… even if you “Clear All Chats”. In fact, the only way > to get rid of them appears to be to delete the app entirely. > > To test, I installed the app and started a few different threads. > I then > archived some, cleared, some, and deleted some threads. I made a > second > backup after running the “Clear All Chats” function in WhatsApp. > None of > these deletion or archival options made any difference in how deleted > records were preserved. In all cases, the deleted SQLite records > remained intact in the database. > > More, including 'How WhatsApp Can Fix This': > http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6143 > > > > > > -- > You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are > nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3618 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bastianifortress at yandex.com Thu Jul 28 23:00:01 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:00:01 +0200 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> Message-ID: <361971469772001@web29g.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2396 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 08:06:38 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 08:06:38 -0700 Subject: Happy sysadmin day In-Reply-To: <20160729071159.GA693@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <20160729071159.GA693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: On 07/29/2016 12:12 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: > Happy sysadmin day! > > http://xkcd.com/705/ > > Maybe someday I must blog about some admins' lameness. > I remember when the hip t-shirt for admins was the snide "I read your Emails" Not so popular anymore. Haven't seen one for a decade or so now. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 29 09:22:32 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:22:32 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Cari Machet: > sim card is detectable without power > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain resources. Wordlife, Spencer From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 29 09:45:53 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:45:53 -0700 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: <345F8E2E-A0CF-41E8-8608-939EA0C91E68@synfin.org> References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> <361971469772001@web29g.yandex.ru> <20160729090015.GX26012@x220-a02> <345F8E2E-A0CF-41E8-8608-939EA0C91E68@synfin.org> Message-ID: Hi, > > Bastiani Fortress: > being able to reach knowledge this easily perhaps > isn't a good thing > Your fine. T-shaped, you seem (: Wordlife, Spencer From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 09:56:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:56:43 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <9433f285-72c5-a7e7-84ea-9284081b2b61@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 09:22 AM, Spencer wrote: > Hi, > >> >> Cari Machet: >> sim card is detectable without power >> > > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain > resources. > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > I agree. They're like flash drives. RF inert... BUT: http://www.gemalto.com/techno/ota/ It appears the card needs to be in the phone for this to work, and I'm almost positive 'airline mode' would disable it, because the transmitter/receiver in the phone is disabled, because the CIA (or whomever) just doesn't have enough excuses if planes keep crashing into mountainsides due to Cellphone RF interfering with their electronic nav gear so the CIA can get the contact list and pussy pics from you sim card. Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 29 10:00:49 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:00:49 -0700 Subject: on building a political platform matrix In-Reply-To: <20160727070217.GL26012@x220-a02> References: <20160727041326.GK26012@x220-a02> <72d28db322af26332d19ea33cb686aeb@openmailbox.org> <20160727070217.GL26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <6bf1b82f36748a99942f8eb0ac5c2fc3@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > Zenaan Harkness: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyan > Wrong wiki page XD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psilocybin_mushrooms Wordlife, Spencer From guninski at guninski.com Fri Jul 29 00:12:00 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:12:00 +0300 Subject: Happy sysadmin day Message-ID: <20160729071159.GA693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Happy sysadmin day! http://xkcd.com/705/ Maybe someday I must blog about some admins' lameness. From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 10:41:28 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:41:28 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <12b211f0-10cf-db45-6ed4-419aa0e8689a@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 10:12 AM, Cari Machet wrote: > If you read the link i sent you would know there is residual power > left on the device and an internal battery for specific tasks > > Also malware can be placed on your device > > Its sad that ppl on this list dont know tech > > Right. The REMOVABLE sim card needs to be phone powered and even flight mode would kill anyone's ability to R/w access the card's data. What happens when the phone is powered on? Well that's why they're called "Smartphones"... because they're smarter than the typical user. Unless you expect an immediate drone strike as soon as they geo-locate seconds after the first cellsite polls your phone, you buy a burner android from tracphone or Virginmobile at your nearest 7-11. Use it, and burn it. IF what you're doing is so fucking important and secretive, you can afford the $29.95. Rr Ps. I've got the better part of an RF engineering degree under my belt. I know electronics tech. You know shit. There's also a number of other peeps around here with electronic-mechanical skills. Pps. It's sad that you're such a douche > > On Jul 29, 2016 7:32 PM, "Spencer" > wrote: > > Hi, > > > Cari Machet: > sim card is detectable without power > > > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super > villain resources. > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2820 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From guninski at guninski.com Fri Jul 29 00:45:57 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:45:57 +0300 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:42:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor Project." > This is how free market work :PPPP This reminds me how Mozilla screwed Brendan Eich (the creator of javascript) for a legal donation not related with his work. > people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that they > have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? > Not exactly employees, but the bosses of their official bosses are not public IMHO (maybe few more levels of recursion are needed). From tedks at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 10:50:40 2016 From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:50:40 -0700 Subject: [RUS] The power of "Nyet" In-Reply-To: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> References: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <9117eaca-73d7-7336-bfac-1628b1e2d1c7@riseup.net> Can you tag these with [SPAM] or [QUAR] instead? On 07/29/2016 03:35 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > Depending very much on your sense of humour, it is conceivable you might > find this mildly humorous... > > The Power of “Nyet” > http://www.cluborlov.com/ > (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/power-nyet/ri15908 ) From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 07:52:21 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:52:21 -0400 Subject: [RUS] Trump Does The Unthinkable. The not so well known Donald Trump. In-Reply-To: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> References: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: Well, there is the fact that Trump is an orange buffoon, an inarticulate reject from Wonka's chocolate factory. Im not saying he's any worse than Hillary of course... But he might be slightly less embarrassing. I rather liked some of what I saw about Bernie. But anyway it's all a big fucking racket , isn't it... John On July 29, 2016 5:23:51 AM EDT, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >I'm sure it may be possible to draw some negatives from this piece. May >as well stop now since this relates to USA politics... > > >------ Forwarded message ------ >http://townhall.com/columnists/lizcrokin/2016/07/10/trump-does-the-unthinkable-n2190160 >Trump Does The Unthinkable > >Townhall >Liz Crokin >Posted: Jul 10, 2016 12:01 AM > >Donald Trump is a racist, bigot, sexist, xenophobe, anti-Semitic and >Islamophobe -- did I miss anything? The left and the media launch these >hideous kinds of attacks at Trump everyday; yet, nothing could be >further from the truth about the real estate mogul. As an entertainment >journalist, I’ve had the opportunity to cover Trump for over a decade, >and in all my years covering him I’ve never heard anything negative >about the man until he announced he was running for president. Keep in >mind, I got paid a lot of money to dig up dirt on celebrities like >Trump for a living so a scandalous story on the famous billionaire >could’ve potentially sold a lot of magazines and would’ve been a “yuge” >feather in my cap. Instead, I found that he doesn’t drink alcohol or do >drugs, he’s a hardworking businessman and totally devoted to his >beloved wife and children. On top of that, he’s one of the most >generous celebrities in the world with a heart filled with more gold >than h! > is $100 million New York penthouse. > >In 2004, the first season of “The Apprentice” aired and at that time I >worked as an entertainment columnist for the “RedEye Edition of the >Chicago Tribune” and as a freelancer for “Us Weekly”. I had a gut >feeling that Chicago contestant, Bill Rancic, was going to win the >reality show. So I contacted him and covered the hit show the entire >season. I managed to score an invite to New York for the show’s grand >finale and after-party. This is where I first met Trump and got to ask >him a few questions. That year, Rancic did win “The Apprentice”. I >attended “The Apprentice” finale the next two years in a row. Between >that and the frequent visits Trump and his family made to Chicago >during the construction of their Trump International Hotel & Tower, I >got a chance to meet most of his family too and I’ve had nothing but >positive experiences with them. Since the media has failed so miserably >at reporting the truth about Trump, I decided to put together some of! >the acts of kindness he’s committed over three decades which has gone >virtually unnoticed or fallen on deaf ears. > >In 1986, Trump prevented the foreclosure of Annabell Hill’s family farm >after her husband committed suicide. Trump personally phoned down to >the auction to stop the sale of her home and offered the widow money. >Trump decided to take action after he saw Hill’s pleas for help in news >reports. > >In 1988, a commercial airline refused to fly Andrew Ten, a sick >Orthodox Jewish child with a rare illness, across the country to get >medical care because he had to travel with an elaborate life-support >system. His grief stricken parents contacted Trump for help and he >didn’t hesitate to send his own plane to take the child from Los >Angeles to New York so he could get his treatment. > >In 1991, 200 Marines who served in Operation Desert Storm spent time at >Camp Lejeune in North Carolina before they were scheduled to return >home to their families. However, the Marines were told that a mistake >had been made and an aircraft would not be able to take them home on >their scheduled departure date. When Trump got wind of this, he sent >his plane to make two trips from North Carolina to Miami to safely >return the Gulf War Marines to their loved ones. > >In 1995, a motorist stopped to help Trump after the limo he was >traveling in got a flat tire. Trump asked the Good Samaritan how he >could repay him for his help. All the man asked for was a bouquet of >flowers for his wife. A few weeks later Trump sent the flowers with a >note that read: “We’ve paid off your mortgage.” > >In 1996, Trump filed a lawsuit against the city of Palm Beach, Florida >accusing the town of discriminating against his Mar-a-Lago resort club >because it allowed Jews and blacks. Abraham Foxman, who was the >Anti-Defamation League Director at the time, said Trump “put the light >on Palm Beach – not on the beauty and the glitter, but on its seamier >side of discrimination.” Foxman also noted that Trump’s charge had a >trickle-down effect because other clubs followed his lead and began >admitting Jews and blacks. > >In 2000, Maury Povich featured a little girl named Megan who struggled >with Brittle Bone Disease on his show and Trump happened to be >watching. Trump said the little girl’s story and positive attitude >touched his heart. So he contacted Maury and gifted the little girl and >her family with a very generous check. > >In 2008, after Jennifer Hudson’s family members were tragically >murdered in Chicago, Trump put the Oscar-winning actress and her family >up at his Windy City hotel for free. In addition to that, Trump’s >security took extra measures to ensure Hudson and her family members >were safe during such a difficult time. > >In 2013, New York bus driver Darnell Barton spotted a woman close to >the edge of a bridge staring at traffic below as he drove by. He >stopped the bus, got out and put his arm around the woman and saved her >life by convincing her to not jump. When Trump heard about this story, >he sent the hero bus driver a check simply because he believed his good >deed deserved to be rewarded. > >In 2014, Trump gave $25,000 to Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi after he spent >seven months in a Mexican jail for accidentally crossing the US-Mexico >border. President Barack Obama couldn’t even be bothered to make one >phone call to assist with the United States Marine’s release; however, >Trump opened his pocketbook to help this serviceman get back on his >feet. > >In 2016, Melissa Consin Young attended a Trump rally and tearfully >thanked Trump for changing her life. She said she proudly stood on >stage with Trump as Miss Wisconsin USA in 2005. However, years later >she found herself struggling with an incurable illness and during her >darkest days she explained that she received a handwritten letter from >Trump telling her she’s the “bravest woman, I know.” She said the >opportunities that she got from Trump and his organizations ultimately >provided her Mexican-American son with a full-ride to college. > >Lynne Patton, a black female executive for the Trump Organization, >released a statement in 2016 defending her boss against accusations >that he’s a racist and a bigot. She tearfully revealed how she’s >struggled with substance abuse and addiction for years. Instead of >kicking her to the curb, she said the Trump Organization and his entire >family loyally stood by her through “immensely difficult times.” > >Trump’s kindness knows no bounds and his generosity has and continues >to touch the lives of people from every sex, race and religion. When >Trump sees someone in need, he wants to help. > >Two decades ago, Oprah asked Trump in a TV interview if he’d run for >president. He said: “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it >out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with >this country.” That day has come. Trump sees that America is in need >and he wants to help – how unthinkable! -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 8444 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guninski at guninski.com Fri Jul 29 03:43:12 2016 From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 13:43:12 +0300 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160729104244.GE693@sivokote.iziade.m$> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 05:13:45AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:45:57 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:42:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > > > > > "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor > > > Project." > > > > > This is how free market work :PPPP > > > Military contractors have nothing to do with the free market. > Are you sure about this? AFAICT you called them "security insurance" in the free market. Anyway, I meant that in a free market (FM), you will still have corporations (possibly under more politically correct term like FM corporation). The boss of a FM corporation can fire whoever for whatever reasons (especially for critique of the FM corp and god forbid for disbelief of the current implementation of the FM). > > > > > This reminds me how Mozilla screwed Brendan Eich (the creator of > > javascript) for a legal donation not related with his work. > > > > > > people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that > > > they have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? > > > > > > > Not exactly employees, but the bosses of their official bosses are not > > public IMHO (maybe few more levels of recursion are needed). > > > Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson suck, > right, those are 'anonymous'. > > But the guys who just got fired are at the bottom of the > hiearchy/mafia. OK, I wasn't clear enough (didn't bother to type for this trolling). I meant the bosses of the grayhat Obomba (soon to be replaced by something visually whiter). From carimachet at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 04:58:55 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 14:58:55 +0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: i learned this in 2011 at ows from our security people that fucking knew what they were talking about but here: http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/07/02/snowden-on-wiretapping-put-your-cell-phones-in-the-fridge/ besides if he didnt want them to track him he wouldnt have the phone on him literally ... it was super bad performance art and indicated to me he had actually very little tech knowledge regarding activism and he was a lot into smoke and mirrors also i read andy's book and he talks about going to the middle east as an activists and its just a fucking joke ... pathetic ... its just gibberish ... i found it sad and i think its a fraudulent presentation which makes me question his character ... presenting about being an activist in a region for hype screams ethics violation X 100 he lacks intelligence On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:16 AM, grarpamp wrote: > On 7/29/16, Cari Machet wrote: > > sim card is detectible without power > > sauce plox. > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 2518 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 12:03:54 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 15:03:54 -0400 Subject: [RUS] The power of "Nyet" In-Reply-To: <9117eaca-73d7-7336-bfac-1628b1e2d1c7@riseup.net> References: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> <9117eaca-73d7-7336-bfac-1628b1e2d1c7@riseup.net> Message-ID: Your spam filters can work on RUS as easily as SPAM ;) Be they procmail, imapfilter, or umm something else... John On July 29, 2016 1:50:40 PM EDT, Ted Smith wrote: >Can you tag these with [SPAM] or [QUAR] instead? > > >On 07/29/2016 03:35 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: >> Depending very much on your sense of humour, it is conceivable you >might >> find this mildly humorous... >> >> The Power of “Nyet” >> http://www.cluborlov.com/ >> (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/power-nyet/ri15908 ) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1152 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 12:16:44 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 15:16:44 -0400 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <6ED47CE2-A530-4507-9D30-8A79BF77241E@synfin.org> Apparently ecstacy is big in Berlin ;). ( An amusing detail in one of the appelbaum break downs I read, or started to read, listed as evidence of... who the fuck knows? the tor Berliners rolling with each other and fucking each other non-stop? ) John On July 29, 2016 12:35:15 AM EDT, Cari Machet wrote: >when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar > >he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the >cia >couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible >without >power > >that shit aint heart > >On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness >wrote: > >> > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud >> > who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting >> > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. >> >> Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. >> >> When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their >> heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have >> been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. >> >> Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own >> truths. >> o >> > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, >but >> > it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. >> > > > >-- >Cari Machet >NYC 646-436-7795 >carimachet at gmail.com >AIM carismachet >Syria +963-099 277 3243 >Amman +962 077 636 9407 >Berlin +49 152 11779219 >Reykjavik +354 894 8650 >Twitter: @carimachet > >7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 > >Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the >addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not >the >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this >information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email >without >permission is strictly prohibited. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 12:57:28 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 15:57:28 -0400 Subject: Happy sysadmin day In-Reply-To: References: <20160729071159.GA693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <6EFCDD88-4A32-407E-917C-A490D1B350E8@synfin.org> On July 29, 2016 11:06:38 AM EDT, Rayzer wrote: > > >On 07/29/2016 12:12 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote: >> Happy sysadmin day! >> >> http://xkcd.com/705/ >> >> Maybe someday I must blog about some admins' lameness. >> > >I remember when the hip t-shirt for admins was the snide "I read your >Emails" > >Not so popular anymore. Haven't seen one for a decade or so now. > >Rr You learn things you don't want to know and can never unlearn running mailsnarf for a few weeks.... (Is dsniff still maintained?) John -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jnn at synfin.org Fri Jul 29 12:59:28 2016 From: jnn at synfin.org (John) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 15:59:28 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_?= =?UTF-8?Q?doesn=E2=80=99t_delete_shit_nothing=2E=22?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: And signal refuses to work with my SIP number on Android 6. Which makes it almost a non starter (that and the stated lack of adoption).. John On July 29, 2016 10:51:09 AM EDT, Rayzer wrote: >On 07/28/2016 10:47 PM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > >> I installed signal on my phone with some enthusiasm, but it's >> practically useless because no one around me adopted it yet. It's sad >> that once a "social" app dominates the market, it's very hard to get >> people to switch to better alternatives unless there is a security >> scandal or something. Same goes with ring... >> > >Personally I think having to expose the phone number of a smartphone to >another user to establish a chat is an incredible security risk in the >short and long run and leads to all sorts of metadata harvesting of >your >unencrypted info. It appears one should keep a low-budget smartphone >for >that use instead of their main number for better persec. > >I questioned Morgan Mayhem (Intercept's sysadmin/cybersec guy) about >that when he broached how secure signal is (he's one of the developers) >on his twitter feed. Never got a reply. > >Telegram allows the use of an @name instead of exposing your number if >you set up an account but I'm unsure what happens when a connection is >established and the contact is added to you contact list > >Rr > > > >> 4:53 AM, July 29, 2016, Rayzer : >> >> Apple’s iMessage too! ("Signal leaves virtually nothing.") >> >> Quote source @thegrugq, Twitter >> https://twitter.com/thegrugq/status/758833939020521472 >> >> WhatsApp Forensic Artifacts: Chats Aren’t Being Deleted >> >> Posted on July 28, 2016 >> >> Sorry, folks, while experts are saying the encryption checks out >in >> WhatsApp, it looks like the latest version of the app tested >leaves >> forensic trace of all of your chats, even after you’ve deleted, >> cleared, >> or archived them… even if you “Clear All Chats”. In fact, the >only way >> to get rid of them appears to be to delete the app entirely. >> >> To test, I installed the app and started a few different threads. >> I then >> archived some, cleared, some, and deleted some threads. I made a >> second >> backup after running the “Clear All Chats” function in WhatsApp. >> None of >> these deletion or archival options made any difference in how >deleted >> records were preserved. In all cases, the deleted SQLite records >> remained intact in the database. >> >> More, including 'How WhatsApp Can Fix This': >> http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6143 >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are >> nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4214 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spencerone at openmailbox.org Fri Jul 29 16:10:23 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 16:10:23 -0700 Subject: Low-power SIM Location [was: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al...] In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: Hi, > > Cari Machet: > the link > A new development; it seems I missed that message (: > > [detectable with] residual power > Is not the same as "detectable without power". It seems that a SIM needs a device with batteries or super capacitors to have access to anything more than a few seconds of power. Wordlife, Spencer From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 18:59:49 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:59:49 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579bf917.4224c80a.9ab7a.d942@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> <579bf917.4224c80a.9ab7a.d942@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1db0551d-c925-3d91-1c80-85bebbaab22e@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 05:51 PM, juan wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:22:32 -0700 > Spencer wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> Cari Machet: >>> sim card is detectable without power >>> >> This does not seem physically possible, at least without super >> villain resources. > > maybe ('new') sim cards have an RFID subsystem...? So they > could be 'detectable' at some range... > RFID in SIM Card - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtlPOUi9rE Didn't watch. It's from the product's company though. A search on Google turns up lots more on the company. DDG not so much. Go search: MDT RFID Ps. You also have to realize that 'some range' isn't much range unless there's a power source. Beware that friendly stranger sitting next to you at the cafe'. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:00:15 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:00:15 +1000 Subject: [OT] Fwd: [ddj] Scanning the Dark Web with Python In-Reply-To: <361971469772001@web29g.yandex.ru> References: <03d7f422-414b-99d7-5c6e-5e585056a748@automatingosint.com> <20E91EDE-138D-4CE1-8EA9-F506A749CDD6@synfin.org> <361971469772001@web29g.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <20160729090015.GX26012@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 08:00:01AM +0200, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Do you people have some methods for concentration? I have little > time after works and one day i start to develop a c++ game i > started months ago and never looked back, another day i try to > learn ruby by adding random functionality to an online todo-listish > project which will obviously reach a dead end eventually, some > other days i try pic stuff on breadboards... When i take a timeout > at work, i try to read papers on network protocols, and sometimes > bitcoin, and sometimes other crypto stuff... It does give a > momentary satisfaction, but the thing is, nothing ever gets done in > the end. I started to think that being able to reach knowledge this > easily (smartphones, wikipedia, sci-hub, etc.) perhaps isn't a good > thing, and diverts focus. Indeed, in an age where we have unlimited access to information, the hardest thing can be deciding what to say no to, what to ignore. So for success, hone your skill of determining what to ignore, as early and quickly as possible, so that the limited time you do spend on anything is spent on worthwhile things. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:05:23 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:05:23 +1000 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20160729090523.GY26012@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 05:13:45AM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:45:57 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:42:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > > > > > "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor > > > Project." > > > > > This is how free market work :PPPP > > > Military contractors have nothing to do with the free market. I took Georgi's comment to mean "ironic" (:P), in the extreme (:PPPP) > > This reminds me how Mozilla screwed Brendan Eich (the creator of > > javascript) for a legal donation not related with his work. > > > > > > people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that > > > they have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? > > > > > > > Not exactly employees, but the bosses of their official bosses are not > > public IMHO (maybe few more levels of recursion are needed). > > > Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson suck, > right, those are 'anonymous'. > > But the guys who just got fired are at the bottom of the > hiearchy/mafia. Evidently :) From rayzer at riseup.net Fri Jul 29 19:21:43 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:21:43 -0700 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote: > Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree > with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak. Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners.... I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... "Anarchist". Rr "I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:23:51 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:23:51 +1000 Subject: [RUS] Trump Does The Unthinkable. The not so well known Donald Trump. Message-ID: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> I'm sure it may be possible to draw some negatives from this piece. May as well stop now since this relates to USA politics... ------ Forwarded message ------ http://townhall.com/columnists/lizcrokin/2016/07/10/trump-does-the-unthinkable-n2190160 Trump Does The Unthinkable Townhall Liz Crokin Posted: Jul 10, 2016 12:01 AM Donald Trump is a racist, bigot, sexist, xenophobe, anti-Semitic and Islamophobe -- did I miss anything? The left and the media launch these hideous kinds of attacks at Trump everyday; yet, nothing could be further from the truth about the real estate mogul. As an entertainment journalist, I’ve had the opportunity to cover Trump for over a decade, and in all my years covering him I’ve never heard anything negative about the man until he announced he was running for president. Keep in mind, I got paid a lot of money to dig up dirt on celebrities like Trump for a living so a scandalous story on the famous billionaire could’ve potentially sold a lot of magazines and would’ve been a “yuge” feather in my cap. Instead, I found that he doesn’t drink alcohol or do drugs, he’s a hardworking businessman and totally devoted to his beloved wife and children. On top of that, he’s one of the most generous celebrities in the world with a heart filled with more gold than h! is $100 million New York penthouse. In 2004, the first season of “The Apprentice” aired and at that time I worked as an entertainment columnist for the “RedEye Edition of the Chicago Tribune” and as a freelancer for “Us Weekly”. I had a gut feeling that Chicago contestant, Bill Rancic, was going to win the reality show. So I contacted him and covered the hit show the entire season. I managed to score an invite to New York for the show’s grand finale and after-party. This is where I first met Trump and got to ask him a few questions. That year, Rancic did win “The Apprentice”. I attended “The Apprentice” finale the next two years in a row. Between that and the frequent visits Trump and his family made to Chicago during the construction of their Trump International Hotel & Tower, I got a chance to meet most of his family too and I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with them. Since the media has failed so miserably at reporting the truth about Trump, I decided to put together some of! the acts of kindness he’s committed over three decades which has gone virtually unnoticed or fallen on deaf ears. In 1986, Trump prevented the foreclosure of Annabell Hill’s family farm after her husband committed suicide. Trump personally phoned down to the auction to stop the sale of her home and offered the widow money. Trump decided to take action after he saw Hill’s pleas for help in news reports. In 1988, a commercial airline refused to fly Andrew Ten, a sick Orthodox Jewish child with a rare illness, across the country to get medical care because he had to travel with an elaborate life-support system. His grief stricken parents contacted Trump for help and he didn’t hesitate to send his own plane to take the child from Los Angeles to New York so he could get his treatment. In 1991, 200 Marines who served in Operation Desert Storm spent time at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina before they were scheduled to return home to their families. However, the Marines were told that a mistake had been made and an aircraft would not be able to take them home on their scheduled departure date. When Trump got wind of this, he sent his plane to make two trips from North Carolina to Miami to safely return the Gulf War Marines to their loved ones. In 1995, a motorist stopped to help Trump after the limo he was traveling in got a flat tire. Trump asked the Good Samaritan how he could repay him for his help. All the man asked for was a bouquet of flowers for his wife. A few weeks later Trump sent the flowers with a note that read: “We’ve paid off your mortgage.” In 1996, Trump filed a lawsuit against the city of Palm Beach, Florida accusing the town of discriminating against his Mar-a-Lago resort club because it allowed Jews and blacks. Abraham Foxman, who was the Anti-Defamation League Director at the time, said Trump “put the light on Palm Beach – not on the beauty and the glitter, but on its seamier side of discrimination.” Foxman also noted that Trump’s charge had a trickle-down effect because other clubs followed his lead and began admitting Jews and blacks. In 2000, Maury Povich featured a little girl named Megan who struggled with Brittle Bone Disease on his show and Trump happened to be watching. Trump said the little girl’s story and positive attitude touched his heart. So he contacted Maury and gifted the little girl and her family with a very generous check. In 2008, after Jennifer Hudson’s family members were tragically murdered in Chicago, Trump put the Oscar-winning actress and her family up at his Windy City hotel for free. In addition to that, Trump’s security took extra measures to ensure Hudson and her family members were safe during such a difficult time. In 2013, New York bus driver Darnell Barton spotted a woman close to the edge of a bridge staring at traffic below as he drove by. He stopped the bus, got out and put his arm around the woman and saved her life by convincing her to not jump. When Trump heard about this story, he sent the hero bus driver a check simply because he believed his good deed deserved to be rewarded. In 2014, Trump gave $25,000 to Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi after he spent seven months in a Mexican jail for accidentally crossing the US-Mexico border. President Barack Obama couldn’t even be bothered to make one phone call to assist with the United States Marine’s release; however, Trump opened his pocketbook to help this serviceman get back on his feet. In 2016, Melissa Consin Young attended a Trump rally and tearfully thanked Trump for changing her life. She said she proudly stood on stage with Trump as Miss Wisconsin USA in 2005. However, years later she found herself struggling with an incurable illness and during her darkest days she explained that she received a handwritten letter from Trump telling her she’s the “bravest woman, I know.” She said the opportunities that she got from Trump and his organizations ultimately provided her Mexican-American son with a full-ride to college. Lynne Patton, a black female executive for the Trump Organization, released a statement in 2016 defending her boss against accusations that he’s a racist and a bigot. She tearfully revealed how she’s struggled with substance abuse and addiction for years. Instead of kicking her to the curb, she said the Trump Organization and his entire family loyally stood by her through “immensely difficult times.” Trump’s kindness knows no bounds and his generosity has and continues to touch the lives of people from every sex, race and religion. When Trump sees someone in need, he wants to help. Two decades ago, Oprah asked Trump in a TV interview if he’d run for president. He said: “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with this country.” That day has come. Trump sees that America is in need and he wants to help – how unthinkable! From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:38:13 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:38:13 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160729093813.GA26012@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:35:15AM +0300, Cari Machet wrote: > when i have heard him speak i see a tweeked out liar > > he pulled out the battery of his phone as some big show that now the cia > couldnt follow him or some weird shit >>>> sim card is detectible without > power > > that shit aint heart You may be right - I've only seen a couple of youtubes. Notwithstanding even if Applebaum is a bad man, and or a lying CIA paid scumbag, the lynch mobbing INjustice he has received is absolutely deplorable, and must be denounced! I read a saying researching some law-related things a few weeks back, something like "the problem with defending 'human rights' is that most of the time we [lawyers] are defending low life scoundrels in the process". There are many anecdotes about Jacob Applebaum. Everyone is entitled to draw their own conclusions about his true character. His right to justice however, is as strong and as certain as the right any of us has to justice, regardless of his true character and nature and deeds. We must never precondition an individual human's absolute right to justice, and a just process of executing justice upon them, upon whether we personally consider that person to be "good" or "bad" or anywhere inbetween! We must not be distracted from this fundamental! It is any position we hold, or imply for that matter, that "that brown person over there in the middle east is bad, and my opinion is all that matters, outside of any just legal process" that leads to so-called "rational" people (100s and 1000s of them in the USA military), choosing to drone people to death, day in, and day out. The USA's daily extra-judicial killings must be stopped. We must start by acknowledging that "bad" people deserve the process of law as much as "good" people. Anything else is tyranny, sociopathy and ultimately war. > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > what the hell is wrong with you people? appelbaum is a fraud > > > who pretends to be an 'anti capitalist' 'lefty' while getting > > > 100,000 US$ per year for spreading pentagon propaganda. > > > > Not any more apparently - he resigned/ was "asked" to. > > > > When I see and hear him speak, I see someone who speaks from their > > heart. I have to respect that, no matter how misguided he might have > > been about the rest of the Tor Inc employees. > > > > Seems clear he is definitely on his own journey and speaking his own > > truths. > > o > > > even if he promoted tor 'for free' he would be doing harm, but > > > it just so happens that he got a good chunk of money too. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:45:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:45:20 +1000 Subject: Buckminster Fuller quote from =?utf-8?Q?19?= =?utf-8?B?NzAgcmUuIOKAmGVhcm4gYSBsaXZpbmcuJ+KAnV0=?= Message-ID: <20160729094520.GC26012@x220-a02> The full quote is in the image attached. ----- Forwarded message from Jim ----- Buckminster Fuller quote from 1970, “We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to ‘earn a living'” P.S… so now go look up the word, “specious”… 1. https://kauilapele.wordpress.com/2016/07/25/buckminster-fuller-quote-from-1970-we-should-do-away-with-the-absolutely-specious-notion-that-everybody-has-to-earn-a-living/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: buckminster_fuller_earn_a_living_quote.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 172173 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 02:57:37 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:57:37 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <20160729093813.GA26012@x220-a02> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <20160729093813.GA26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160729095737.GE26012@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:38:13PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > We must never precondition an individual human's absolute right to > justice, and a just process of executing justice upon them, upon whether > we personally consider that person to be "good" or "bad" or anywhere > inbetween! > > We must not be distracted from this fundamental! > > It is any position we hold, or imply for that matter, that "that brown > person over there in the middle east is bad, and my opinion is all that > matters, outside of any just legal process" that leads to so-called > "rational" people (100s and 1000s of them in the USA military), choosing > to drone people to death, day in, and day out. > > The USA's daily extra-judicial killings must be stopped. We must start > by acknowledging that "bad" people deserve the process of law as much as > "good" people. s/process of law/appropriate anarchic justice system/ From carimachet at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 10:12:06 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:12:06 +0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: If you read the link i sent you would know there is residual power left on the device and an internal battery for specific tasks Also malware can be placed on your device Its sad that ppl on this list dont know tech On Jul 29, 2016 7:32 PM, "Spencer" wrote: Hi, > Cari Machet: > sim card is detectable without power > > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain resources. Wordlife, Spencer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 941 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 03:15:54 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:15:54 +1000 Subject: Interesting Article on Open Source Languages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160729101554.GF26012@x220-a02> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 06:29:30PM -0400, Bahn, Nathan wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-open-source-programming-languages-are-crushing-proprietary-peers/ All tech which can be classified as infrastructure, will tend to "free libre and open source" over the medium term (unit of time defining 'medium' is shrinking over time, at least for most software). Even niche tech which has at least one dedicated hacker hobbyist, will dominate a corresponding proprietary offering over the medium term. Employee programmers choosing (when they have the choice) proprietary over libre software, are simply yet to discover their true self interest maximization potential (over the long term). Once any proprietary tech is effectively monetized by an individual or company with libre tech, they will over the medium to long term completely dominate the company doing the proprietary tech. The more individuals and groups/companies with an economic vested interested in a particular libre tech, the faster that group will accelerate away from any and all proprietary alternatives, over the medium to long term. Proprietary tech is merely a temporary historical anomaly, existing pursuant to the lack of awareness of the relevant actors as to their maximal self interest in the medium to long term. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 03:35:18 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:35:18 +1000 Subject: [RUS] The power of "Nyet" Message-ID: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> Depending very much on your sense of humour, it is conceivable you might find this mildly humorous... The Power of “Nyet” http://www.cluborlov.com/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/power-nyet/ri15908 ) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 17:31:31 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:31:31 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:47:19 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > > Only feminazis believe in 'sexism'. > > Hmm... Not exactly, dear. I have a vagina, Juan. So it turns out that men and women ARE different? Now that's a shocking revelation... > It's natural for > me believe in sexism, because I live the sexism all the days. > Theoretically, I should be considered an equal, An equal to what/to whom? All people are different in various ways. Are you talking about equality before the law?(which logically entails anarchism btw) Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak. > but the world doesn't > work this way. And it becomes even worse when bad people hide > themselves behind politically correct lies in a hypocritical society. > > > > Take care and eat chocolate, dear! :* > > > > Yeah. > > Hum, I will need chocolate too! :-/ From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 04:40:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:40:17 +1000 Subject: [RUS] The third Rome In-Reply-To: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> References: <20160729103518.GG26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160729114017.GA8062@x220-a02> Not humorous, quite the opposite really, a regional analysis piece. The New Byzantine Alliance - The Kremlin And the Porte Revolutionize the Centre of the Old World http://johnhelmer.net/?p=16140 (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/new-byzantine-alliance-kremlin-and-porte-revolutionize-centre-old-world/ri15881 ) From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 17:45:40 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:45:40 -0300 Subject: paging tor bots In-Reply-To: <20160729104244.GE693@sivokote.iziade.m$> References: <579aebf2.562ac80a.59069.eefd@mx.google.com> <20160729074557.GB693@sivokote.iziade.m$> <579b0f5c.6329c80a.894f3.02c9@mx.google.com> <20160729104244.GE693@sivokote.iziade.m$> Message-ID: <579bf7cd.0220ed0a.5979a.ce7d@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 13:43:12 +0300 Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 05:13:45AM -0300, juan wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:45:57 +0300 > > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:42:40AM -0300, juan wrote: > > > > https://blog.torproject.org/blogs/ssteele > > > > > > > > "two additional people...are no longer involved with the Tor > > > > Project." > > > > > > > This is how free market work :PPPP > > > > > > Military contractors have nothing to do with the free > > market. > > > > Are you sure about this? AFAICT you called them "security insurance" > in the free market. I'm talking about the current kind of military contractors, which includes the tor project. And what I said about insurance is that activities that currently are carried by the state/police can be replaced by insurace. As a matter of fact, even today the police doesn't do anything useful if you get robbed whereas if your stuff is insured you will get your money back. I don't think any kind of army belongs in a free society/free market so, no, no military contractors in a free market. Aaaaand, all this has nothing to do with the 'anonymous' firing done by the tor project anyway. > > Anyway, I meant that in a free market (FM), you will still have > corporations (possibly under more politically correct term like FM > corporation). 'corporations' are a legal fiction created by the state, so no. > The boss of a FM corporation can fire whoever for whatever reasons > (especially for critique of the FM corp and god forbid for disbelief > of the current implementation of the FM). > > > > > > > > This reminds me how Mozilla screwed Brendan Eich (the creator of > > > javascript) for a legal donation not related with his work. > > > > > > > > > people without even naming them? I wouldn't like to imagine that > > > > they have 'secret' 'nameless' employees? > > > > > > > > > > Not exactly employees, but the bosses of their official bosses > > > are not public IMHO (maybe few more levels of recursion are > > > needed). > > > > > > Ah, if you mean the pentagon pyschos whose cocks syverson > > suck, right, those are 'anonymous'. > > > > But the guys who just got fired are at the bottom of the > > hiearchy/mafia. > > OK, I wasn't clear enough (didn't bother to type for this trolling). > > I meant the bosses of the grayhat Obomba (soon to be replaced by > something visually whiter). From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 17:51:10 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:51:10 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <579bf917.4224c80a.9ab7a.d942@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:22:32 -0700 Spencer wrote: > Hi, > > > > > Cari Machet: > > sim card is detectable without power > > > > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super > villain resources. maybe ('new') sim cards have an RFID subsystem...? So they could be 'detectable' at some range... > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 04:52:58 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:52:58 +1000 Subject: [WAR] Looming War With Russia Should Be THE Crucial Issue Of The US Elections In-Reply-To: <20160728213401.GV26012@x220-a02> References: <20160728213401.GV26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <20160729115258.GB8062@x220-a02> Looming War With Russia Should Be THE Crucial Issue Of The US Elections http://thesaker.is/the-central-issue-in-the-u-s-presidential-campaign/ (Alt: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/central-issue-us-presidential-campaign/ri15885 ) "The path we’re on can end only in one of two ways: Either the U.S. ‘news’ media will get real and start reporting the crucial realities ... and ... compel the U.S. government to reverse course, or, there will be a surprise blitz attack by U.S.-NATO against Russia, or else by Russia against U.S.-NATO." From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 05:45:10 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 22:45:10 +1000 Subject: Attempted coup d'etat in Turkey Message-ID: (Sorry for the thread break - have to use gmail as my ISP is flagging and rejecting this email.) The Saker analysis: Syria and the Coup in Turkey https://southfront.org/syria-and-the-coup-in-turkey/ (Alt: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/syria-and-the-coup-in-turkey/ http://thesaker.is/major-developments-in-syria-and-turkey/ ) Other interesting perspectives: http://thesaker.is/the-turkish-coup-for-russia-from-turkey-with-enough-love-to-last-until-the-great-war/ The Saker goes on a rant! :D Enjoy :) http://thesaker.is/wishful-thinking-saker-rant/ Damn! Sharapova like I've never seen her before: http://thesaker.is/which-one-looks-doped-up-to-you/ From spencerone at openmailbox.org Sat Jul 30 00:11:47 2016 From: spencerone at openmailbox.org (Spencer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 00:11:47 -0700 Subject: "Deleting WhatsApp chats =?UTF-8?Q?doesn=E2=80=99t=20delete?= =?UTF-8?Q?=20shit=20nothing=2E=22?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <1d456cadb0d5f1c82ec0640e4ce22522@openmailbox.org> Hi, > > grarpamp: > your own discrete contact fingerprints > It would be dope to have control over your contact info in people's lists. Wordlife, Spencer From carimachet at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 14:39:56 2016 From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 00:39:56 +0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <12b211f0-10cf-db45-6ed4-419aa0e8689a@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> <0164087bf8820ef4e6551e45a64b2f12@openmailbox.org> <12b211f0-10cf-db45-6ed4-419aa0e8689a@riseup.net> Message-ID: as usual rayzer you have to name call i get tired of getting drilled for info and told i dont know anything ... boring irritating should i just say google it ? no again read the informative link i sent in this thread On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/29/2016 10:12 AM, Cari Machet wrote: > > If you read the link i sent you would know there is residual power left on > the device and an internal battery for specific tasks > > Also malware can be placed on your device > > Its sad that ppl on this list dont know tech > > > > Right. The REMOVABLE sim card needs to be phone powered and even flight > mode would kill anyone's ability to R/w access the card's data. What > happens when the phone is powered on? Well that's why they're called > "Smartphones"... because they're smarter than the typical user. > > Unless you expect an immediate drone strike as soon as they geo-locate > seconds after the first cellsite polls your phone, you buy a burner android > from tracphone or Virginmobile at your nearest 7-11. Use it, and burn it. > IF what you're doing is so fucking important and secretive, you can afford > the $29.95. > > Rr > > Ps. I've got the better part of an RF engineering degree under my belt. I > know electronics tech. You know shit. There's also a number of other peeps > around here with electronic-mechanical skills. > > Pps. It's sad that you're such a douche > > > > > > On Jul 29, 2016 7:32 PM, "Spencer" wrote: > > Hi, > > >> Cari Machet: >> sim card is detectable without power >> >> > This does not seem physically possible, at least without super villain > resources. > > Wordlife, > Spencer > > > > > > -- Cari Machet NYC 646-436-7795 carimachet at gmail.com AIM carismachet Syria +963-099 277 3243 Amman +962 077 636 9407 Berlin +49 152 11779219 Reykjavik +354 894 8650 Twitter: @carimachet 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187 Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without permission is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 4197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juan.g71 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 21:14:03 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 01:14:03 -0300 Subject: [RUS] Trump Does The Unthinkable. The not so well known Donald Trump. In-Reply-To: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> References: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: <579c28a6.9a35ed0a.6a6af.f4cf@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:23:51 +1000 Zenaan Harkness wrote: > I'm sure it may be possible to draw some negatives from this piece. > May as well stop now since this relates to USA politics... > > > ------ Forwarded message ------ > http://townhall.com/columnists/lizcrokin/2016/07/10/trump-does-the-unthinkable-n2190160 > Trump Does The Unthinkable > http://www.snopes.com/luck/trump.asp It's safe to assume that the whole article is pure bullshit. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 23:30:45 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:30:45 -0400 Subject: [RUS] Trump Does The Unthinkable. The not so well known Donald Trump. In-Reply-To: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> References: <20160729092351.GZ26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 7/29/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > [trump generosity] To the extent any of the anecdotes are true, it's a dose of Americana that warrants yet more ignoring of that cunt Hillary who almost certainly would have a hard time matching it historically. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 23:38:55 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:38:55 -0400 Subject: [WAR] The Road to Armageddon - America's protection racketeering to save is usury power In-Reply-To: <20160730022244.GD17721@x220-a02> References: <20160730022244.GD17721@x220-a02> Message-ID: On 7/29/16, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > translates to regime change and removing those who won’t agree. In other > words, the U.S. produces dollars and the world peripheries produce to > sell for those dollars, consequently, this means the U.S. has been > living free by printing pieces of private profit-making paper for > decades. Not without consequence. Currency of last resort has profiteering inbred. And to which decades has profit applied. But it is known that the press cannot print free of charge forever. Some say past QE[n] will yield insurmountables in 10 years. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 23:54:16 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:54:16 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=E2=80=99t_delete_shit_n?= =?UTF-8?Q?othing=2E=22?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: I laught at all this bullshit. If you don't personally know interlocutor or can't be bothered to look them up and nego acceptable flag waving pursuant to id'd comms, you're stupid. All this buddy list contact list email @ phone number sharing invite feature bullshit is well NON feature and privacy fucking NSA tracking advertising BULLSHIT. Advertise your own discrete contact fingerprints on nets or be happy as random anons. From grarpamp at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 23:58:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:58:44 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=E2=80=99t_delete_shit_n?= =?UTF-8?Q?othing=2E=22?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: Same goes for adoption. If you can't convince to run then you ain't got shit to sell, you're not important enough, or youi're too crazy. To them. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 30 07:18:48 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:18:48 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=e2=80=99t_delete_shi?= =?UTF-8?Q?t_nothing.=22?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> On 07/29/2016 11:54 PM, grarpamp wrote: > I laught at all this bullshit. > If you don't personally know interlocutor or can't be bothered > to look them up and nego acceptable flag waving pursuant > to id'd comms, you're stupid. > All this buddy list contact list email @ phone number sharing > invite feature bullshit is well NON feature and privacy fucking > NSA tracking advertising BULLSHIT. > Advertise your own discrete contact fingerprints on nets or > be happy as random anons. > Ahem... I don't mean to sound profound here, but you can do both. You can have a public and secret presence on the intertubz. It DOES help dramatically if you have two entirely different sets of communications tools but even it you don't ... How arrogant are the 99.9999% of users to think they're more than a flyspeck on the windshield of the NSA's locomotive? That you matter to them and are worth spending more than a few nanoseconds on? Rr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 18:36:07 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 11:36:07 +1000 Subject: FM Corporations/ businesses/ entitities Message-ID: <20160730013607.GB17721@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 09:45:40PM -0300, juan wrote: > On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 13:43:12 +0300 > Georgi Guninski wrote: > > Anyway, I meant that in a free market (FM), you will still have > > corporations (possibly under more politically correct term like FM > > corporation). > > 'corporations' are a legal fiction created by the state, so no. When > 1 humans associate for the purposes of shared economic activity/ incentive in what we may as well term "business", it is in their interests to face the world as a named entity. I think this is Georgi's point - in a FM we are free to associate with one another as we so choose. So in Georgi's case here, FM corporation ~= business ~= economic activity association And of course, where there is no government, there shall be no "corporations" as created by governments. Any group calling themselves a "corporation" would have a meaning different from the current meaning, thus "FM corporation". This leads to perhaps an interesting question: Today there are many businesses, companies, corporations etc. which entities represent their owners (possibly in the form of share holders) and controllers (possibly just the owners, and/ or part owners, or the directors/ managers employed to control certains aspects of the business). Share holders/ owners can include other entities - trusts, hedge funds, pension funds etc. These entity owners have actual interests - economic interests, and any other contractable/ name-able interest which might be written, but may not be written, including for example: - simple economic interests - share dividends, perceived future share price for future sale etc - maturity of an estate, vesting from the estate holder to the named beneficiaries in a will - power and control structures as manifested by the CIA, FBI, NSA, North American BISMIC (banking intelligence surveillance/ spying military industrial control complex) Contracts (explicit/ implied) - entities - interests (or rather "beneficiaries"). (Of course some interests would not be considered "lawful" or acceptable to an average direct democracy/ anarchic voter (assuming that particular interest were up for a vote) for example.) THE QUESTION: The question I think always shall be, is how to transition to an anarchic society, in consideration of existing interests. I.e. how to peacefully transition existing entities/ structure/ interests into an anarchistic/ truly free market reality. I am implying evolution. Revolution - we see how well that went after the fall of the Tzar, to the various CIA instigated revolutionary coups from Lybia to Syria, Ukraine to Yugoslavia, none of which resulted in nor were intended to result in an actualisation of an anarchistic society. The problem with revolution, is that it is ideological extremists who give enough of a shit to pick up a gun and start shooting (for example) police, citizens and government officials, and the outcome is that the ideological extremists end up holding the seats of power and institute something -other- than anarchism. Such extremists as our world's history have seen, tend to sociopathy, rather than the benevolent, side of dictatorship. We must always remember it is never the arm chair pundit ("oh I wish our democracy elected representatives actually represented us") crowd who will change the world. So historically, revolutions seem to be more a devolution than an evolution of the status quo. If you have counter examples, please highlight them now. So it is that I hold far greater hope for a better/ anarchistic/ direct democracy type of future, via the pathway of evolution, and not revolution. And so it is also that we owe it to our future generations to consider pathways to peaceful transition of existing interests, into that better future. From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 19:22:44 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:22:44 +1000 Subject: [WAR] The Road to Armageddon - America's protection racketeering to save is usury power Message-ID: <20160730022244.GD17721@x220-a02> The Road to Armageddon http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/road-armageddon/ri15914 A few quotes: " The roots of America’s current belligerence lie in the private ownership of its currency, privatised by Woodrow Wilson in 1919, the now U.S. Federal Reserve. Like any privatised business, the Federal Reserve relies on a customer base, but as its customers dwindled, the future consequences forced America into protection racketeering, and manipulation to save its usury power. Today, this intervention translates to regime change and removing those who won’t agree. In other words, the U.S. produces dollars and the world peripheries produce to sell for those dollars, consequently, this means the U.S. has been living free by printing pieces of private profit-making paper for decades. " "In 1973 ( http://www.businessinsider.com/the-media-wont-touch-this-story-about-the-end-of-the-us-dollar-2012-4 ) President Nixon asked King Faisal of Saudi Arabia to accept only US dollars as payment for oil and to invest any excess profits in US Treasury bonds, notes, and bills. In return, Nixon offered military protection for Saudi oilfields. The same offer was extended to each of the world's key oil producing countries, and by 1975 every member of OPEC had agreed to only sell oil in U.S. dollars." In a world-wide economic recession, the world is finally beginning to realise the previous power of the U.S. lies not in exceptionalism, but in its parasitic nature. All this remains a conspiracy theory to many Americans, but well known to the rest of the world – Ron Paul explains ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSj8UN2UDSk ). From zen at freedbms.net Fri Jul 29 19:51:33 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:51:33 +1000 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> Message-ID: <20160730025133.GE17721@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 07:21:43PM -0700, Rayzer wrote: > On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote: > > Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't agree > > with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak. > > Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners.... > > I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... > "Anarchist". > > Rr > > "I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson Everything depends on context. We are in a purportedly anarchist email list, and it is conceivably useful to try to shared meanings with our words. So, useful can be to inquisition one another as to true meaning and intention. I "Suggest" taking the suggestions of others as by default having good intention regards communication. You are of course free to plonk :) From grarpamp at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 11:17:04 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 14:17:04 -0400 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <20160728053952.GN26012@x220-a02> <579a5ad8.7724ed0a.f1ffa.8291@mx.google.com> <20160728210249.GT26012@x220-a02> Message-ID: Relationships Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5492/attachment-0004.pdf Internal Complaint Review Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5492/attachment-0005.pdf Harassment Prevention Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5492/attachment-0006.pdf Employee Communications Policy (final).pdf http://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/attachments/20160729/c0fd5492/attachment-0007.pdf From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 12:21:59 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 16:21:59 -0300 Subject: "Deleting WhatsApp chats =?utf-8?B?ZG9lc27igJl0?= delete shit nothing." In-Reply-To: <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579cfd6c.4737ed0a.1ddec.637a@mx.google.com> On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:18:48 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > How arrogant are the 99.9999% of users to think they're more than a > flyspeck on the windshield of the NSA's torbot rayzer doing his job again - telling people to use garbage like tor and telling people that the government isn't really paying attention. locomotive? That you matter to > them and are worth spending more than a few nanoseconds on? > > Rr > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 13:59:41 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 17:59:41 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579d1454.1923ed0a.446c9.6d4f@mx.google.com> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:21:43 -0700 Rayzer wrote: > > > On 07/29/2016 05:31 PM, juan, the Anti-PC-Police wrote: > > Anyway, 'sexism' is typical feminazi jargon. If you don't > > agree with feminazis I'd suggest you don't use their newspeak. > > Still fascism attempting to act like it has manners.... rayzer, I know that you are the typical american 'lefty' fascist. I don't care if you think you have 'manners' or not. now go suck schneiers cock. and some feminazi cock too! > > I "Suggest" other people not respond to what wording pleases you... > "Anarchist". > > Rr > > "I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and > not be questioned about their motives." ~RW Emerson > > From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 14:07:50 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 18:07:50 -0300 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier Message-ID: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> "Real-World Security and the Internet of Things" "Governments need to play a larger role" signed - supreme leader of the 'tor project' corporataion. From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 30 18:38:18 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 18:38:18 -0700 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: <2F901354-6940-4A6A-815E-4C0109C48B86@openmailbox.org> References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> <484B2AF6-39A6-4ED5-9084-8748F8E05746@openmailbox.org> <2F901354-6940-4A6A-815E-4C0109C48B86@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <7cc84c1a-c383-053e-ce9d-070833d43478@riseup.net> I was tempted to say:" He's still a cunt." OH NO! I said it! On 07/30/2016 04:19 PM, oshwm wrote: > to clarify, the gov need to fuck off and leave the rest of us to make > shit safe :) > > On 30 July 2016 23:34:42 BST, oshwm wrote: > > you're a cunt juan but absolutely correct :D > > On 30 July 2016 22:07:50 BST, juan wrote: > > > "Real-World Security and the Internet of Things" > > "Governments need to play a larger role" > > > signed - supreme leader of the 'tor project' corporataion. > > > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1782 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sat Jul 30 18:46:01 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 18:46:01 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=e2=80=99t_delete_shi?= =?UTF-8?Q?t_nothing.=22?= In-Reply-To: <579cfd6c.4737ed0a.1ddec.637a@mx.google.com> References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> <579cfd6c.4737ed0a.1ddec.637a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 07/30/2016 12:21 PM, juan wrote: > On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:18:48 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > >> How arrogant are the 99.9999% of users to think they're more than a >> flyspeck on the windshield of the NSA's > > torbot rayzer doing his job again - telling people to use > garbage like tor and telling people that the government isn't > really paying attention. I didn't tell anyone to use tor in my post and that's right... They aren't really paying attention. They're just storing data for "attention" at some point when it becomes worthwhile to them. In five minutes, 5 hours, years, or never. The idea is to fly under the radar so it's 'never'. Once you're on their radar there's (snigger) "No Place To Hide" (the title of Greenwald's book about hooking up with Snowden), Rr > > > > locomotive? That you matter to >> them and are worth spending more than a few nanoseconds on? >> >> Rr >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 30 06:17:17 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:17:17 +1000 Subject: [WAR] Peoples' protest power - Okinawa protests cause USA to stop its occupation of Okinawa ! Message-ID: <20160730131717.GG17721@x220-a02> Reports that South Korea may be next. This information ought be spread far and wide to those in USA military occupied regions of the world. "Get out and protest, in large numbers, to -end- USA military occupation of your area." AWESOME news! A day for celebration. Where will US lose its bases after Japan? http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/americas/29-07-2016/135163-usa-0/ From oshwm at openmailbox.org Sat Jul 30 15:34:42 2016 From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:34:42 +0100 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <484B2AF6-39A6-4ED5-9084-8748F8E05746@openmailbox.org> you're a cunt juan but absolutely correct :D On 30 July 2016 22:07:50 BST, juan wrote: > > >"Real-World Security and the Internet of Things" > >"Governments need to play a larger role" > > >signed - supreme leader of the 'tor project' corporataion. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From oshwm at openmailbox.org Sat Jul 30 16:19:21 2016 From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:19:21 +0100 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: <484B2AF6-39A6-4ED5-9084-8748F8E05746@openmailbox.org> References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> <484B2AF6-39A6-4ED5-9084-8748F8E05746@openmailbox.org> Message-ID: <2F901354-6940-4A6A-815E-4C0109C48B86@openmailbox.org> to clarify, the gov need to fuck off and leave the rest of us to make shit safe :) On 30 July 2016 23:34:42 BST, oshwm wrote: >you're a cunt juan but absolutely correct :D > >On 30 July 2016 22:07:50 BST, juan wrote: >> >> >>"Real-World Security and the Internet of Things" >> >>"Governments need to play a larger role" >> >> >>signed - supreme leader of the 'tor project' corporataion. > >-- >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 998 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dezelin at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 15:28:50 2016 From: dezelin at gmail.com (Aleksandar Dezelin) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:28:50 +0200 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:07 PM, juan wrote: > Governments need to play a larger role Governments need to play a larger role -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 499 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sat Jul 30 07:31:34 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:31:34 +1000 Subject: [MONEY] The USA Debt Time-bomb Message-ID: <20160730143134.GI17721@x220-a02> F. William Engdahl The USA Debt Time-bomb Tocking, Ticking, Tock, Tick ... http://journal-neo.org/2016/07/28/the-usa-debt-time-bomb-tocking-ticking-tock-tick/ This one's gonna be big .. From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 22:47:43 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 02:47:43 -0300 Subject: Fwd: Re: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss In-Reply-To: <4y2JMdEUuJVwCC0gg9OqHtfEx-fLd6a65EGwO3nsxVJDMyKpXD3hRrQjqpU9EHgxSV-Lm_0X1QhFnKxckpcl0A==@protonmail.ch> References: <20160715000253.GG30352@x220-a02> <5788F808.50804@riseup.net> <4y2JMdEUuJVwCC0gg9OqHtfEx-fLd6a65EGwO3nsxVJDMyKpXD3hRrQjqpU9EHgxSV-Lm_0X1QhFnKxckpcl0A==@protonmail.ch> Message-ID: Hi, Digitalfolklore! Hope you wanted to send this message to cypherpunks lists, not for me in special. :) I don't know exactly what is happening, but received some strange private messages in different channels about Wikileaks. Err... Why me? Did someone say something or is just my famous oriental charm? :-/ Usually, I love Wikileaks, but I do not support some of their last actions. Everybody knows about strange leaks to manage USA elections, the Turkish leaks and deleted bizarre tweets. These things annoyed me a lot. I wasn't tweeting in the last times, but, few days ago, I admiss I tweeted about and retweeted one of Wikileaks' account tweets about Jake. Just it. Only a cordial relationship between an institucional account and a poor unknowed follower, who had lost a lot of friends, contacts and followers in last months. I am only lurking on twitter, avoiding flaming wars and boring people. No much patience for all the drama. It's my usual behaviour in foreign lists too. I only broke my typical pattern because of Jake. I was already an old reader here and on tor-talk list, before being kickbanned. I am very noisy and chaotical, and my English stinks more than someone's... little cat! So, silence is always more comfortable for me, even being a talkative troll. :) Am I guilty of some of their bad leaks and was not informed about it yet? They were noisy and chaotical, but not mine! :) Ah, I always make a lot of strange things, but not personalized panties. If you want Snodew or Assange panties, you can suggest the idea to Wikileaks. Certainly they will be very sexy, but not like the charming "Put in" panties, hihi! :) It would be fun to use Tor Project panties. I still use their stickers in my notebooks and devices, even after all this mess. It's a pity that g-strings have no much area to onions or Schneier facts, hahaha!!! ;D https://www.zerodayclothing.com/schneierfacts.php There are Schneier Facts T-shirts, but cryptography in panties would be awesome, wow!!! Loved the idea!!! Ok, I will consider it just for fun! <3 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Digitalfolklore" Date: Jul 30, 2016 2:03 AM Subject: Re: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss To: "Cecilia Tanaka" waiting for wikileaks to make one with Snowden on it no one mentioning the Turkish leaks with all the women voters names in plain text, phone numbers, addresses? good old wikileaks keeping the innocent safe VH > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Trolling the CIA Like a Boss > Local Time: July 16, 2016 2:14 AM > UTC Time: July 15, 2016 4:14 PM > From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org > > On Jul 15, 2016 12:00 PM, "Rayzer" wrote: > > > > He DOES know how to charm the media.... > > Yep, so much charm... ;) > > http://9gag.com/gag/a44bPMA > > And you can use it to avoid rapes too. It certainly will kill any healthy libido, aff... Uglier than elephant underwear for men! (>_<) ugh!!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3837 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 23:22:34 2016 From: cecilia.tanaka at gmail.com (Cecilia Tanaka) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 03:22:34 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> Message-ID: Muuuaaah! :* My dear Rayzer, thank you a lot for caring about me, but I will answer to Juan. I like him very much. He has lots of patience with me and is always teaching and explaining me several things. He is nice and feels pity when I don't understand bad words, wordplays and concepts of anarchism. And I do love to annoy him, hihi! ;) 'Mal cogida' is a very very very bad word in Spanish, which he teached me. I like him enough to say that he is the only guy in the world who can call me 'mal cogida' without being kicked right in the balls with all my strenght, hihi! :) Juan dear, sorry, I will answer to your message, but a bit later. Now I am very busy, burning all my bras because they are oppressing my breasts! :P Nah, it's a joke. Cute bras are very expensive, hihi! ;) Talking seriously, I am really busy, need to finish a lot of crazy stuff and was stupid enough to delete the draft of my answer about sexism when was distracted, d'oh! :P Sorry, I won't write about it again right now. It's a boring theme. Talk to you soon! Kisses, take care and eat chocolate! :* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1193 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rayzer at riseup.net Sun Jul 31 10:18:02 2016 From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 10:18:02 -0700 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Deleting_WhatsApp_chats_doesn=e2=80=99t_delete_shi?= =?UTF-8?Q?t_nothing.=22?= In-Reply-To: <86741469984694@web30j.yandex.ru> References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> <579cfd6c.4737ed0a.1ddec.637a@mx.google.com> <86741469984694@web30j.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <02edfe32-2449-2cad-6703-4696704ee8cf@riseup.net> On 07/31/2016 10:04 AM, Bastiani Fortress wrote: > Did you just propose we send everything in cleartext :D Not EVERYTHING! Go about your biz... Nothing to see here. Just some dickpics, move along. But if you need security. Use a computer you've never used before in a town or place you've never been before for your secure coms then destroy it and do the same with the $5 burner phone from 7-11. I figure it would take at least a 1/2 hour or so before a Predator Drone made it to that location from the nearest military base so you have some time. The implication is if you're publicly 'subversive' on the internet in any way that's really a threat there's no way to secure anything and you're essentially, as someone once said about 'revolutionaries', a 'dead man on furlough'. Rr > > 4:59 AM, July 31, 2016, Rayzer : > > > > On 07/30/2016 12:21 PM, juan wrote: > > On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:18:48 -0700 > Rayzer wrote: > > How arrogant are the 99.9999% of users to think they're > more than a > flyspeck on the windshield of the NSA's > > > torbot rayzer doing his job again - telling people to use > garbage like tor and telling people that the > government isn't > really paying attention. > > > > I didn't tell anyone to use tor in my post and that's right... They > aren't really paying attention. They're just storing data for > "attention" at some point when it becomes worthwhile to them. In five > minutes, 5 hours, years, or never. The idea is to fly under the > radar so > it's 'never'. > > Once you're on their radar there's (snigger) "No Place To Hide" (the > title of Greenwald's book about hooking up with Snowden), > > Rr > > > > > > > locomotive? That you matter to > > them and are worth spending more than a few nanoseconds on? > > Rr > > > > > > > > -- > You’re not from the Castle, you’re not from the village, you are > nothing. Unfortunately, though, you are something, a stranger. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 3462 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 10:35:19 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:35:19 -0400 Subject: Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/21/16, grarpamp wrote: > [doc request[ Since this seems to have been ignored by Tor Project Inc for more than a week, and people have indicated further interest, it has now been lodged as a formal ticket. Requests to update comment #1 regarding doc list and date ranges could go in this mail thread. Enjoy. ps: Mir, Zen, and Jaro were on point... the string "FOI" takes in spirit and strength and has no explicit to do with any "law". # Tor Project Corporate Document FOI Request https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/19794 From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 11:12:44 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 14:12:44 -0400 Subject: War Torn's, Iraq Etc... Streams From Indie Journos Message-ID: On 7/28/16, Jaromil wrote: > Our Streamtime.org collective > ... > our operations were heavily targeted by Dutch police > ... > in the context of freedom of speech for people caught in war zones. > ... > operations are *independently motivated* is crucial to our mission and > the nature of the Streamtime project. > ... > many people I've met later on don't know this story. Speaking of that, both in itself at your leisure, and more specific on this that came up... Do you, or anyone, have [links], or can post, archives of the content Jacob Appelbaum pushed out before during and after relavent his .IQ journey? References below... # 22C3: Personal experiences bringing technology and new media to disaster areas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaW1ge-tTVo " Welcome IRAQ! Streamtime.org - Free as a fish Haan al-Irsaal (Arabic for Streamtime), was born in the spring of 2004 when in the attic of Cultural Political centre De Balie in Amsterdam two journalists and a hacker joined their forces with the purpose to promote independent, free speech web-radio and blogging from war-torn Iraq and its Diaspora. Today and after many years, Streamtime consists of a rich collection of on-line sound recordings collected between 2004 and 2010, some rather complex memories, huge archives stored off-line and a network of good friends. It is a unique narration about the many Iraqi bloggers who where online since the beginning of the war in Iraq. We focused on a cultural sense of finding our own way in the quagmire that is Iraq, and its representation in the global media. We don't try to change politics in order to foster cultural change; we support cultural manifestation in order to force political change. We imagine improvised expressive devices like a CD that turns your PC into an on line streaming studio. Imagine a mob that creates a traffic jam. Think of the religious policeman in London, the konfused kollege kid and the jealous dentist in Baghdad and the jailed blogger in Cairo. Building autonomous networks in extreme conditions. " From grarpamp at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 11:51:52 2016 From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 14:51:52 -0400 Subject: Snowden Curative Censor vs Wikileaks Freedom Message-ID: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/07/28/a-twitter-spat-breaks-out-between-snowden-and-wikileaks/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12197744 http://cryptome.org/0002/ja-conspiracies.pdf " Two of the biggest names in government data leaks clashed over how to responsibly release information on Twitter on Thursday. It started when Edward Snowden tweeted that WikiLeaks' "hostility to even modest curation" was a mistake. WikiLeaks wasn't happy about the criticism -- and hit Snowden back by accusing him of pandering to Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. " From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 12:40:07 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 16:40:07 -0300 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579e532d.05dde90a.c0813.e91b@mx.google.com> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:28:50 +0200 Aleksandar Dezelin wrote: > On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:07 PM, juan wrote: > > > Governments need to play a larger role > > Governments need to play a larger role Is that what you advocate here in the cpunks mailing list Aleksandar? For completness' sake, the source for schneier's mental vomit https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/07/real-world_secu.html From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 14:03:05 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 18:03:05 -0300 Subject: worthless scumbag bruce schneier In-Reply-To: References: <579d163c.c4a7370a.633c6.6fc2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <579e669e.94c5370a.8ed4.860a@mx.google.com> I wonder which one of the shitbags who read this list posted this in schneier's blog - If I had to guess, it was "rayzer". " Juan G • July 31, 2016 3:23 PM I'm really just an idiot troll working for the US Gov, but don't tell anyone ok? Juan G • July 31, 2016 3:26 PM You can reach me at juan.g71 at gmail.com Note the 'g' in there, it means Gov as in G-Man." From bastianifortress at yandex.com Sun Jul 31 10:04:54 2016 From: bastianifortress at yandex.com (Bastiani Fortress) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 19:04:54 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6ICJEZWxldGluZyBXaGF0c0FwcCBjaGF0cyBkb2VzbuKAmXQgZGVsZXRlIHNoaXQgbm90aGluZy4i?= In-Reply-To: References: <391461469771270@web17h.yandex.ru> <4ea69686-30a5-c427-21e6-de9c61b9f91a@riseup.net> <579cfd6c.4737ed0a.1ddec.637a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <86741469984694@web30j.yandex.ru> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/html Size: 1573 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 31 03:02:31 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:02:31 +1000 Subject: Happy 4 July!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160731100231.GJ17721@x220-a02> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:30:33AM -0400, grarpamp wrote: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks > > Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Civil Forfeiture (HBO) If any USA citizen -still- happens to be waiting for an excuse to know, without any shadow of a doubt, that their own government 'organs' are corrupt to the core, this is it. This is incredible. Even worse than here in Australia - although our "law enforcement" departments are running hard for the fascist arseholes crown... From juan.g71 at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 16:24:23 2016 From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:24:23 -0300 Subject: Deconstructing an Institutional Slander operation: @ioerror et al... In-Reply-To: References: <4579aed2-1c44-553d-d37a-df440042166d@riseup.net> <579a62f6.ef24ed0a.805c6.9090@mx.google.com> <579a74a9.57a5370a.44210.a0e0@mx.google.com> <579bf47b.8d2a370a.c27ce.d1da@mx.google.com> <0a5bbe20-a784-7be5-7367-3318558289dd@riseup.net> Message-ID: <579e87bd.c124c80a.0b33.2d53@mx.google.com> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 03:22:34 -0300 Cecilia Tanaka wrote: > 'Mal cogida' is a very very very bad word in Spanish, which he > teached me. I like him enough to say that he is the only guy in the > world who can call me 'mal cogida' without being kicked right in the > balls with all my strenght, hihi! :) So, for people who don't speak spanish : "mal cogida/o" roughly means "not well fucked", and the idea is that a person who doesn't have enough sex is whinny and grumpy. Is there an equivalent english word/expression? (ps: Cecilia, I would never dare to call you mal cogida =P ) From zen at freedbms.net Sun Jul 31 16:57:20 2016 From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 09:57:20 +1000 Subject: [RUS] Western regime's financial isolation of Russia now all but over Message-ID: <20160731235720.GL17721@x220-a02> This particular article is by a particularly humble author, but notwithstanding, the information is significant. Russia wins conclusively the Battle of the Eurobond Alexander Mercouris http://theduran.com/russia-wins-conclusively-eurobond-battle/ "Euroclear agrees to provide depository services to the Russian Eurobond, confirming that Russia is now able to raise Eurobond financing as it pleases." ( In other news, Trump continues to hold his line on Russia: http://theduran.com/crimea-rather-russia-ukraine-donald-trump-tells-george-stephanopoulos-video/ Bernie Sanders “sold his soul to the devil” http://theduran.com/bernie-sanders-sold-soul-devil-says-donald-trump/ USA regime's blaming Russia for "cyber attacks" must mean the USA has really clean hands in all of this right? FSB finds cyber-spying virus in computer networks of 20 state authorities http://tass.ru/en/politics/891681 ‘US deliberately destroyed CIA black site used for torture’ https://www.rt.com/op-edge/353564-us-destroyed-cia-black-site/ Humans! And, perhaps the efforts to handle in advance any fallout from the public media exposure starting to happen re tactical nuclear weapons. Psychopath Inc., UK edition. Poll: 66% of UK Voters Support a Nuclear Strike That Would Kill 100,000 "We must be willing to use nuclear weapons," said Prime Minister Theresa May boasting about having the courage to kill 100,000 or more people indiscriminately. http://sputniknews.com/military/20160731/1043814688/theresa-may-nuclear-war-poll.html Skydiving without a parachute: "US skydiver Luke Aikins, 42, set a free jump record by landing on a special net from a height of 7.6 kilometers (25,000 feet) without a parachute!" http://sputniknews.com/videoclub/20160731/1043806279/luke-aikins-record-skydiving.html Putin: "I am not your friend, I am the President of Russia" http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/putin-i-am-not-your-friend-i-am.html )