From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan  1 09:23:27 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 09:23:27 -0800
Subject: Happy cpunks new year
In-Reply-To: <20160101161020.GB2484@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160101161020.GB2484@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <5686B60F.1070501@riseup.net>

Georgi Guninski wrote:
> Happy new year cpunks!
>
> Let in 2016 the establishment be overthrown, provably unbreakable crypto
> be implemented (lol) and we can buy love and beer at reasonable price
> (as Terry Pratchett wrote).
>

*A thought for a new year.*

*Could accomplishing peace on earth be this simple to do?*


  *Stop voting for people who bomb people!*

If the power elite�s media and political parties that pick who we get to
vote for don�t present us with a candidate who will do that*:
*


  *BOYCOTT THE 2016 U.S. VOTE!*

http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/136359631069
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/136335693014

Just sayin'...

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan  1 11:15:01 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
Message-ID: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>

How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!

(RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)

A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left him,
according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock, founder
of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his post-incarceration
archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Jan  1 08:10:20 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 18:10:20 +0200
Subject: Happy new year cpunks
Message-ID: <20160101161020.GB2484@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Happy new year cpunks!

Let in 2016 the establishment be overthrown, provably unbreakable crypto
be implemented (lol) and we can buy love and beer at reasonable price
(as Terry Pratchett wrote).




From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan  1 18:58:02 2016
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:58:02 -0700
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>

On 01/01/2016 04:58 PM, juan wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>> How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!
>>
>> (RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)
>>
>> A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left
>> him, according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock,
>> founder of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his
>> post-incarceration archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV
>>
> 
> 
> 	And after writing all that....he killed himself? 

Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe someone pwned the
account.

As far as we know, he's dead. But we don't know how he died. Maybe
they'll do an autopsy. And maybe the results will become public. And
maybe we can trust what they say. Or maybe not.

I think that we do know that the police interacted with him, at least
twice. And that they arrested him at least once. And that he bailed
himself out, and went to hospital to have a minor head wound stitched.

Maybe some TLA pwned his Twitter account, and worked with the police to
have him harassed and murdered. Or maybe he just had a bad night, too
many drugs, bad drugs, or whatever. And had some unfortunate
interactions with the police. And then suicided by cop.

I've been pretty lucky with my bad trips, but who knows what would have
happened if things turned ugly. Automatic weapons can be mucho fun on
acid in the desert. But misunderstandings might have been fatal.

Maybe we'll never know just what happened.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  1 15:58:36 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 20:58:36 -0300
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!
> 
> (RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)
> 
> A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left
> him, according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock,
> founder of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his
> post-incarceration archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV
> 


	And after writing all that....he killed himself? 




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Fri Jan  1 21:35:07 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2016 21:35:07 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <20160102053451.93EF5C016C4@frontend1.nyi.internal>

On January 1, 2016 9:30:33 PM "Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn at rushpost.com> wrote:

> Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is
> pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like
> there's more to it before where this one cuts off.
> 	
> --

This is the most complete archive of his tweets that I've seen:
https://archive.is/DcVrY





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan  1 21:39:55 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 21:39:55 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net>

Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-01-01 at 11:15 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
>> How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!
>>
>> (RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)
>>
>> A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left him,
>> according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock, founder
>> of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his post-incarceration
>> archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV
> Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is
> pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like
> there's more to it before where this one cuts off.
> 	

Source, reply in a thread by @ioerror:
https://twitter.com/tellmemo/status/682555293822091264

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From skquinn at rushpost.com  Fri Jan  1 21:21:41 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2016 23:21:41 -0600
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>

On Fri, 2016-01-01 at 11:15 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
> How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!
> 
> (RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)
> 
> A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left him,
> according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock, founder
> of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his post-incarceration
> archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV

Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is
pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like
there's more to it before where this one cuts off.
	
-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan  1 23:56:03 2016
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 00:56:03 -0700
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>

On 01/01/2016 10:39 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>> On Fri, 2016-01-01 at 11:15 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
>>> How dare they treat him like a Black or homeless person!
>>>
>>> (RR extracts tongue from cheek, mutters the letters ACAB/FTP)
>>>
>>> A day after an altercation with the San Francisco Police which left him,
>>> according to the police report, with “abrasions”, Ian Murdock, founder
>>> of the Debian Linux Project, is dead. Here’s his post-incarceration
>>> archived tweetstream: https://archive.is/J9lZV
>> Is this the most complete archive that exists? Granted, what's there is
>> pretty damning towards whatever LEA is involved, but it seems like
>> there's more to it before where this one cuts off.
>> 	
> 
> Source, reply in a thread by @ioerror:
> https://twitter.com/tellmemo/status/682555293822091264

American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've
increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate.

Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged, upper-middle-class
white guy would have been beaten down like that. Unless he was out of
control, anyway.

But then, I have no recent experience with the San Francisco County
Sheriff's Department or SFPD. Maybe they're tired of fucking with rich
nerds. Maybe, if he were non-white, they would have just shot him.

Whatever happened, it's very sad.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 10:25:12 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 15:25:12 -0300
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
 <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:58:02 -0700
Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 01/01/2016 04:58 PM, juan wrote:
> > On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800
> > Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:  https://archive.is/J9lZV
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 	And after writing all that....he killed himself? 
> 
> Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe someone pwned
> the account.
	

	That's certainly possible.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan  2 15:01:57 2016
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:01:57 -0700
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com> <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com> <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
 <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net>

On 01/02/2016 03:32 PM, juan wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:24:48 -0500
> Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I believe it would be a Good Thing if word was passed hand to hand
>> in the direction of Ian's family, to the effect that Conspiracy
>> Nuts 
> 
> 	wow - you just keep outdoing yourself...
> 
> 	'course, saying that the messages in his account are fake has
> 	nothing to do with 'conspiracies' 

:)

> will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy is
>> performed.  (And maybe not even then.)
>>
>> No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the
>> community, and closure won't come easily.

We can all agree that "closure won't come easily", no?




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sat Jan  2 13:24:48 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:24:48 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com> <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/02/2016 01:25 PM, juan wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:58:02 -0700 Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 01/01/2016 04:58 PM, juan wrote:
>>> On Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:15:01 -0800 Rayzer
>>> <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:  https://archive.is/J9lZV
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And after writing all that....he killed himself?
>> 
>> Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe
>> someone pwned the account.
> 
> 
> That's certainly possible.

Stating the obvious:

When he was arrested, it is likely that a phone with stored login
credentials for his personal accounts was in hostile hands for at
least a few hours.

He most likely expressed his displeasure with and hostile
intentions toward the SFPD to agents of SFPD before or during his
incarceration.  Coming from a "rich white geek" whose status as
such could be determined in ten seconds via any search engine, any
threats of lawful reprisals he might have made should have brought
all the defensive resources at SFPD's disposal into play.
Nothing posted in his name after the time of his arrest should be
taken at face value.

My cursory search for information about California law indicates
that an autopsy is not required for "known suicides", whatever
/that/ means.  Apparently the County Coroner gets to make that call.

I believe it would be a Good Thing if word was passed hand to hand
in the direction of Ian's family, to the effect that Conspiracy
Nuts will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy is
performed.  (And maybe not even then.)

No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the
community, and closure won't come easily.






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From admin at pilobilus.net  Sat Jan  2 13:45:03 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:45:03 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com> <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com> <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <568844DF.1030002@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/02/2016 04:24 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:

> No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to
> the community, and closure won't come easily.

The most complete account I have seen so far:

http://sfbay.ca/2015/12/31/police-confirm-ian-murdock-arrest-before-
suicide/



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From dan at geer.org  Sat Jan  2 15:14:21 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 18:14:21 -0500
Subject: A good way to spur adoption of strong cryptography and security
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 26 Dec 2015 00:14:23 -0600."
 <20151226061423.GC19662@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <20160102231421.0EB65A06E3D@palinka.tinho.net>

 > Now you give me an idea, how about we automate router firmware dumps, 
 > and start providing free wifi for campaign staffers in collaboration
 > with www.ngpvan.com

Or you could just join 'em and be their Snowden...


https://www.ngpvan.com/about

GROW WITH US

We're hiring across the board.

RECEIVE GREAT BENEFITS

Paid parental leave, 100% health care premiums paid, annual
profit-sharing, and paid, annual professional development. We take
care of our staff so that they can focus on taking care of our
clients.

LOVE WHERE YOU WORK

We like to think we've created a relaxed, start-up atmosphere all
of us can enjoy. We have free beer every Friday, an annual company-wide
hackathon, regular events, fun retreats in sunny places, a company
softball team, free drinks + snacks, and all the memes you could
ever hope for.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  2 14:32:27 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 19:32:27 -0300
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
 <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>
 <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:24:48 -0500
Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:


> I believe it would be a Good Thing if word was passed hand to hand
> in the direction of Ian's family, to the effect that Conspiracy
> Nuts 

	wow - you just keep outdoing yourself...

	'course, saying that the messages in his account are fake has
	nothing to do with 'conspiracies' 




will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy is
> performed.  (And maybe not even then.)
> 
> No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to the
> community, and closure won't come easily.
> 




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 00:23:28 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 03:23:28 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've
> increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate.
>
> Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged, upper-middle-class
> white guy would have been beaten down like that.

"The police are uneducated, evil, and sadistic. Do not trust them. …
The rest of my life is to fight against the police. … they are NOT
friends, so don’t ever ever believe otherwise.”

Anyhow...
Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication,
philosophy, etc yielding yet another unraveling.
Reiser, Schwartz, Murdock... others...
Learning from such things, were it to be, is a lucky priviledge and
moment of insight.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sun Jan  3 01:43:24 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 04:43:24 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com> <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com> <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
 <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com> <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5688ED3C.3030803@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/02/2016 06:01 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 01/02/2016 03:32 PM, juan wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 16:24:48 -0500 Steve Kinney
>> <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> I believe it would be a Good Thing if word was passed hand
>>> to hand in the direction of Ian's family, to the effect
>>> that Conspiracy Nuts
>> 
>> wow - you just keep outdoing yourself...
>> 
>> 'course, saying that the messages in his account are fake
>> has nothing to do with 'conspiracies'

I don't recall saying that the messages in his account are fake,
or that a conspiracy of any sort took place.

I do suggest that any practicable measures to verify the details
of any narrative, including collection of physical evidence
through a formal process, would be a Good Thing.  "To avoid even
the appearance of," etc.

>> will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy
>> is
>>> performed.  (And maybe not even then.)
>>> 
>>> No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to
>>> the community, and closure won't come easily.
> 
> We can all agree that "closure won't come easily", no?

Verily.

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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sun Jan  3 09:45:34 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2016 09:45:34 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <20160103153151.GD2488@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160103153151.GD2488@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20160103174519.0EEDE6800F0@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On January 3, 2016 7:42:46 AM Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 03:23:28AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> > Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication,
>
> Reddit is one of the most reliable sources you can cite.

I laughed out loud, for real :)  Yeah, one of their "finest" moments was 
when they falsely but loudly accused a man who had gone missing as being 
one of the Boston Marathon bombers, that was a real piece of work.  It's 
like a failed /b/ raid, but without actual hackers*.

* Well, back when /b/ was still good**.

** /b/ was never good.


> RIP Ian

Indeed.  What a damn shame.

-S





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan  3 11:30:19 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:30:19 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <20160103174519.0EEDE6800F0@frontend2.nyi.internal>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160103153151.GD2488@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20160103174519.0EEDE6800F0@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <568976CB.7090908@riseup.net>

Shelley wrote:
> On January 3, 2016 7:42:46 AM Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 03:23:28AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
>> > Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health /
>> medication,
>>
>> Reddit is one of the most reliable sources you can cite.
>
> I laughed out loud, for real :)  Yeah, one of their "finest" moments
> was when they falsely but loudly accused a man who had gone missing as
> being one of the Boston Marathon bombers, that was a real piece of
> work.  It's like a failed /b/ raid, but without actual hackers*.
>
> * Well, back when /b/ was still good**.
>
> ** /b/ was never good.
>
>
>> RIP Ian
>
> Indeed.  What a damn shame.
>
> -S
>

He contemplated suicide pre-incident. "Mood Med Ramp Up" causes that,
and erratic behavior. Looks like a suicide with PD abuse as contributing
factor. He apparently died at the altercation address too. No word about
who lived at that address... X-GF/BF? Crack Dealer?

"I am the owl
I seek out the foul
Wipe 'em away
Keep America free
For clean livin' folks like me

If you demonstrate
Against somebody we like
I'll slip on my wig
And see if I can start a riot
Transform you to an angry mob
All your leaders go to jail for my job

But we ain't the Russians
Political trials are taboo
We've got our secret
Ways of getting rid of you
Fill you full of LSD
Turn you loose on a freeway

[Chorus]

Send you spinning
Send you spinning
Send you spinning all over the freeway
Spinning on the crowded freeway
Spinning on the freeway
Spinning on the freeway
Spin
Spin
Spin-Lookout

#DeadKennedys

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/iamtheowl.html

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  3 08:32:23 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 13:32:23 -0300
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <5688ED3C.3030803@pilobilus.net>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
 <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>
 <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
 <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com>
 <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net> <5688ED3C.3030803@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <56894d5d.8f48370a.3a6f3.6c71@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 04:43:24 -0500
Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:

> I don't recall saying that the messages in his account are fake,
> or that a conspiracy of any sort took place.


Ray :   https://archive.is/J9lZV  

Me : And after writing all that....he killed himself?  

Mirimir : Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe
someone pwned the account. 

Me : That's certainly possible.  

You : "Stating the obvious: When he was arrested, it is likely that a
phone with stored login credentials for his personal accounts was in
hostile hands for at least a few hours."


	Sorry Steve but considering the quoted context, what else could
	you possibly be saying.  You even added

	"Nothing posted in his name after the time of his arrest should
	be taken at face value." 

	You seem to be clearly suggesting that the messages are fake,
	plus advancing the 'conspiracy' theory that the police was
	involved. Which is, of course, a plausible 'hypothesis'.














> 
> I do suggest that any practicable measures to verify the details
> of any narrative, including collection of physical evidence
> through a formal process, would be a Good Thing.  "To avoid even
> the appearance of," etc.
> 
> >> will never let them hear the end of this unless an autopsy
> >> is
> >>> performed.  (And maybe not even then.)
> >>> 
> >>> No matter how it happened, Ian's death was a tragic loss to
> >>> the community, and closure won't come easily.
> > 
> > We can all agree that "closure won't come easily", no?
> 
> Verily.
> 
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From hozer at hozed.org  Sun Jan  3 12:57:52 2016
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 14:57:52 -0600
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <56894d5d.8f48370a.3a6f3.6c71@mx.google.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com>
 <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com>
 <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
 <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com>
 <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net> <5688ED3C.3030803@pilobilus.net>
 <56894d5d.8f48370a.3a6f3.6c71@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20160103205752.GG19662@nl.grid.coop>

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 01:32:23PM -0300, juan wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 04:43:24 -0500
> Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> 
> > I don't recall saying that the messages in his account are fake,
> > or that a conspiracy of any sort took place.
> 
> 
> Ray :   https://archive.is/J9lZV  
> 
> Me : And after writing all that....he killed himself?  
> 
> Mirimir : Well, we don't know for sure that he wrote that. Maybe
> someone pwned the account. 
> 
> Me : That's certainly possible.  
> 
> You : "Stating the obvious: When he was arrested, it is likely that a
> phone with stored login credentials for his personal accounts was in
> hostile hands for at least a few hours."
> 
> 
> 	Sorry Steve but considering the quoted context, what else could
> 	you possibly be saying.  You even added
> 
> 	"Nothing posted in his name after the time of his arrest should
> 	be taken at face value." 

This is the **cypherpunks** mail list. Isn't the point of of being 
a punk to *question* authority, and the cypherpunk to question the 
narrative of weak authentication systems?

It seems important not to confuse the man Ian with a device and
cryptographic key that was once known to be in posession of the man,
who is now deceased.

Now if there is some reliable human witness that Ian actually keyed
that text into a device in his physical posession then I think we'd
all like to hear about it.

The only digital witness to the alleged tweets is not a particularly
credible one, in my opinion.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sun Jan  3 14:31:23 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 17:31:23 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <20160103205752.GG19662@nl.grid.coop>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net>
 <568712f8.08f28c0a.87a3.24a6@mx.google.com> <56873CBA.7050906@riseup.net>
 <5688164f.05a28c0a.a38f8.43bc@mx.google.com> <56884020.1000908@pilobilus.net>
 <56885043.524a370a.a44df.069c@mx.google.com> <568856E5.1060301@riseup.net>
 <5688ED3C.3030803@pilobilus.net> <56894d5d.8f48370a.3a6f3.6c71@mx.google.com>
 <20160103205752.GG19662@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <5689A13B.8020704@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/03/2016 03:57 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

> This is the **cypherpunks** mail list. Isn't the point of of
> being a punk to *question* authority, and the cypherpunk to
> question the narrative of weak authentication systems?
> 
> It seems important not to confuse the man Ian with a device
> and cryptographic key that was once known to be in posession of
> the man, who is now deceased.
> 
> Now if there is some reliable human witness that Ian actually
> keyed that text into a device in his physical posession then I
> think we'd all like to hear about it.
> 
> The only digital witness to the alleged tweets is not a
> particularly credible one, in my opinion.

"Everybody lies." - Greg House

First and foremost we lie to ourselves, continuously, as our
central nervous systems build models of the world based on
incomplete data and unexamined assumptions.  We usually believe
the result of this process is the "real world," because it is the
only world we can experience.  We have to believe, because the
processing overhead of questioning and testing everything, all the
time, would be crippling - and the results would be inconclusive.

But there is a limit to the advantage of taking our illusory
impressions of the real world at face value, and sometimes it does
pay to consciously examine how confident we are of a source of
information, why we have that confidence, and how these factors
should affect own conclusions about that information.  What
evidence do we really have, where did it come from and how can it
be tested?

When our available information is second hand, ambiguous and/or
self contradictory, and especially when it originates in a context
of human conflict, there may be no rational basis for confident
conclusions about what really happened:  Just a cluster of
possible interpretations which can be assigned higher or lower
probability on a basis of educated guesswork about the quality of
the sources and how the information itself fits - or does not fit
- - into what we already 'know' about its native context.

People who do this for a living are called intelligence analysts,
and their training includes all of the above.  When the going gets
spooky, the spooks his the books.  Highly recommended for anyone
who takes an interest in news and current events:

http://cryptome.org/2013/01/aaron-swartz/Psychology-of-Intelligence-
Analysis.pdf

Subjective human experience is the instrument that detects and
represents "reality," so it pays to have a handle on how that
system works.  I doubt that the CIA requires trainees to read and
study this textbook, but it wouldn't hurt if they did:

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/04%20Prometheus%20Rising
.pdf

:o)




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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Jan  3 07:31:51 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 17:31:51 +0200
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160103153151.GD2488@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Jan 03, 2016 at 03:23:28AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health / medication,

Reddit is one of the most reliable sources you can cite.
Next time try /. or stackexchange.

RIP Ian




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Jan  4 12:03:07 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 12:03:07 -0800
Subject: The product with the most hacker exploitable vulns in 2015
Message-ID: <568ACFFB.9050708@riseup.net>

Envelope Puh-lease!

User-Friendly" Apple Inc. is Number 1 for ‪#‎Hacker‬ exploitable
vulnerabilities in 2015!

Specifically their two most popular products: Mac OSX and iPhone OS.

http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/04/and-the-product-with-the-most-distinct-vulnerabilities-in-2015-is/

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Jan  4 13:18:59 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:18:59 -0800
Subject: The product with the most hacker exploitable vulns in 2015
In-Reply-To: <568ACFFB.9050708@riseup.net>
References: <568ACFFB.9050708@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <568AE1C3.2020601@gmail.com>

On 01/04/2016 12:03 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> Envelope Puh-lease!
>
> User-Friendly" Apple Inc. is Number 1 for ‪#‎Hacker‬ exploitable
> vulnerabilities in 2015!
>
> Specifically their two most popular products: Mac OSX and iPhone OS.
>
>
http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/04/and-the-product-with-the-most-distinct-vulnerabilities-in-2015-is/

Note that in 2015 Apple hired LegbaCore, so it is likely that Apple's
upcoming firmware/hardware will be a lot more secure (and probably less
flexible, like Windows boxes).

Thanks,
Lee
RSS: http://firmwaresecurity.com/feed





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Jan  4 19:37:06 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 19:37:06 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures (Venezuela edition)
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568B3A62.9040808@riseup.net>


Twitter: @JasonLeopold
https://twitter.com/JasonLeopold/status/684199158182494214>

> FBI just sent me its file on Hugo Chavez, which consists of 739 blank
> pgs, in response to my 2013 #FOIA. Everything w/h & referred to OGA

w/h, withheld. OGA, 'Other Government Agency' is a euphemism for the
Central Intelligence Agency.


Need another laugh?

>
>  "Associated Press reporter Matt Lee laughs at a US State Department
> Spokesperson’s contention the U.S. is NOT involved in the recent
> Venezuelan coup attempt" 
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/113693156429\


That smile on Lee's face, as he 'cracks' and says:

>
> “I’m sorry. Whoah, whoah, whoah. The US has a long-standing practice
> of not promoting ... [coups] – how long-standing would you say?”
>

...is priceless:

RR


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From unicorn at blackhats.org  Mon Jan  4 21:54:33 2016
From: unicorn at blackhats.org (Quux)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 06:54:33 +0100
Subject: The product with the most hacker exploitable vulns in 2015
In-Reply-To: <568ACFFB.9050708@riseup.net>
References: <568ACFFB.9050708@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <928AB1A4-0B2F-4569-ABA5-50666F173699@blackhats.org>

Only if you combine all versions of the mentioned products. If you would do the same with, for instance, all Microsoft product versions they would still rule the list. :-)

Ciao,
Quux. 

> On 04 Jan 2016, at 21:03, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> Envelope Puh-lease!
> 
> User-Friendly" Apple Inc. is Number 1 for ‪#‎Hacker‬ exploitable
> vulnerabilities in 2015!
> 
> Specifically their two most popular products: Mac OSX and iPhone OS.
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/04/and-the-product-with-the-most-distinct-vulnerabilities-in-2015-is/
> 
> -- 
> RR
> 
> "You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
> with mine until it worked..."
> 
> 




From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Tue Jan  5 16:25:57 2016
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 16:25:57 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=iKFMwB5vokFbzygmAP70T-Q4mNc+Nov9XoO4z-0G-aikA@mail.gmail.com>

I encourage everyone reading this, regardless of where you live, to
contact California
Assemblyman David Chiu
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chiu_(politician)>.  Chiu is a the
California state legislator for the district including San Francisco.  He
is a mainstream elitist/financialist Democrat, but historically he has been
close to the Silicon Valley tech community.

When you call Chiu's office, explain the Murdock case if the staffer you
speak with is not familiar.  Politely mention that the SFPD is widely known
to be corrupt.    Then ask that the Assemblyman work to have the incident
investigated *by an independent investigator from outside the San Francisco
Police Department*.  A state assemblymember does not have direct legal
authority to appoint an investigator - but for sure, if an elected
legislator speaks out, many people will listen.

Assemblyman Chiu's office phone number is (916) 319-2017.  You can also
contact him electronically thru his official website
<http://asmdc.org/members/a17/>.

Some members of this list may criticize this suggestion as naively
optimistic.  Maybe it is; but I guess I haven't completely given up all
hope for our "democratic" political institutions.  Anarchists will call
that foolish; the rest will, I hope, call Assemblyman Chiu's office.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 12:23 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> > American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've
> > increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate.
> >
> > Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged, upper-middle-class
> > white guy would have been beaten down like that.
>
> "The police are uneducated, evil, and sadistic. Do not trust them. …
> The rest of my life is to fight against the police. … they are NOT
> friends, so don’t ever ever believe otherwise.”
>
> Anyhow...
> Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health /
> medication,
> philosophy, etc yielding yet another unraveling.
> Reiser, Schwartz, Murdock... others...
> Learning from such things, were it to be, is a lucky priviledge and
> moment of insight.
>
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Jan  5 17:32:07 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 17:32:07 -0800
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <CAN9H=iKFMwB5vokFbzygmAP70T-Q4mNc+Nov9XoO4z-0G-aikA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKFMwB5vokFbzygmAP70T-Q4mNc+Nov9XoO4z-0G-aikA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568C6E97.2030802@riseup.net>

Jason McVetta wrote:
> I encourage everyone reading this, regardless of where you live, to
> contact California Assemblyman David Chiu
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chiu_%28politician%29>.  Chiu is
> a the California state legislator for the district including San
> Francisco.  He is a mainstream elitist/financialist Democrat, but
> historically he has been close to the Silicon Valley tech community.
>
> When you call Chiu's office, explain the Murdock case if the staffer
> you speak with is not familiar.  Politely mention that the SFPD is
> widely known to be corrupt.    Then ask that the Assemblyman work to
> have the incident investigated /by an independent investigator from
> outside the San Francisco Police Department/.  A state assemblymember
> does not have direct legal authority to appoint an investigator - but
> for sure, if an elected legislator speaks out, many people will listen.  
>
> Assemblyman Chiu's office phone number is (916) 319-2017.  You can
> also contact him electronically thru his official website
> <http://asmdc.org/members/a17/>.  
>
> Some members of this list may criticize this suggestion as naively
> optimistic.  Maybe it is; but I guess I haven't completely given up
> all hope for our "democratic" political institutions.  Anarchists will
> call that foolish; the rest will, I hope, call Assemblyman Chiu's
> office.  
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 12:23 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com
> <mailto:grarpamp at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 2:56 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net
>     <mailto:mirimir at riseup.net>> wrote:
>     > American LEA have been heavily militarized, for sure. And they've
>     > increasingly been trained to escalate confrontations and dominate.
>     >
>     > Still, I find it hard to imagine how a middle-aged,
>     upper-middle-class
>     > white guy would have been beaten down like that.
>
>     "The police are uneducated, evil, and sadistic. Do not trust them. …
>     The rest of my life is to fight against the police. … they are NOT
>     friends, so don’t ever ever believe otherwise.”
>
>     Anyhow...
>     Reddit seems to think it's some combination of pressure, health /
>     medication,
>     philosophy, etc yielding yet another unraveling.
>     Reiser, Schwartz, Murdock... others...
>     Learning from such things, were it to be, is a lucky priviledge and
>     moment of insight.
>
>

I still think it's a med reaction exacerbated by his run in with the
SFPD. What I'd really like to have examined is a toxicology report for
Murdock, due to his repeated erratic behavior the SFPD 'intervened' in.
You'd think they'd do such a thing, but I suspect not.

At one point in my younger days I personally knew Abbie Hoffman. Later
in life, and  at the other end of the US I had a hard time believing the
story of his suicide having always noted his maniac side but never
seeing the 'down side' of his personality. I broached that on a list
where someone who knew him a lot better than me posts and he went and
asked Abbie's brother-in-law Wally, from his first marriage to Anita
Hoffman.

The response from Wally was an eyeopener. Apparently Abbie was not in
very good health and had about 95% arterial blockage. Then he was
feeling under the weather so the doctors prescribed Prozac for him,
unknowing at the time that the combination of arterial blockage and
prozac causes suicidal thoughts and tendencies.

I suspect something similar happened to Ian Murdock, and the SFPD was
involved, and crudely so, but unless the 'abrasions' to his head that
needed stitches were severe enough to have caused his demise or
exacerbated a pre-existing head injury or unknown such as potential for
cerebral hemorrhage (again, this could be due to prescription meds), it
just another instance of the police as insensitive abusive
bureaucrats-with-guns ham-handly 'dealing' with a citizen, booking and
releasing him.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From ryacko at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 00:54:02 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 00:54:02 -0800
Subject: What did Linode do?
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/3zlttw/linode_user_credentials_compromised_all_customers/

First under DDOS attack, now being hacked.

What did Linode do?
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From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 07:21:32 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 07:21:32 -0800
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TLx-3sfFwO2aNDgeDnPTDzkvTSpiZCmG2C18s84wsw0A@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/16, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/3zlttw/linode_user_credentials_compromised_all_customers/
>
> First under DDOS attack, now being hacked.
>
> What did Linode do?


they hosted high risk instances, apparently. :/

i do appreciate that given a small set of indicators (few compromised
accounts) they acted conservatively and reset ALL accounts. this is a
reassuring behavior, rather than cause for alarm!




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan  6 07:47:02 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 07:47:02 -0800
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568D36F6.5010603@riseup.net>

Ryan Carboni wrote:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/3zlttw/linode_user_credentials_compromised_all_customers/
>
> First under DDOS attack, now being hacked.
>
> What did Linode do?

They operate out of New Jersey?

> Linode (a portmanteau of the words linux and node) is a privately
> owned virtual private server provider based in Galloway, New Jersey.
> [wikipedia]

As my Italian uncle would say, "Tough Darts."

But seriously... Why WOULDN'T hackers want to take down any old SSD
virtual cloud anyway. I mean, after all, what did ProtonMail do to have
cyberhackers collude with a so-far un-named superpower government to
take THEM offline? They offered security...

From the Register, on Jan 4.

> “For the short term, we will be using BGP communities to attempt to
> block Asia Pacific, the Middle East, South America, and others,
> hopefully leaving us only with traffic from North America and Western
> Europe."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/04/linode_back_at_last_after_ten_days_of_hell/

I would take an un-educted guess that this WAS the purpose of the
attack. Shutting the rest of the world's service off and isolating North
America as a practice drill.

Ps. North Korea successfully detonated a Hydrogen Bomb yesterday.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan  6 12:54:01 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 12:54:01 -0800
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <644031702.1170604.1452109529724.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <644031702.1170604.1452109529724.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <568D7EE9.7060204@riseup.net>

Boogieman with an H-Bomb!

Time to launch ANOTHER "test" ICBM at Kwajalein from Vandenbird(sic) AFB

Kwajalein Atoll (USAG-KA), home to the U.S. Army Space and Missile
Defense Command's (SMDC) Ronald Reagan ICBM Test Site..."
|
"Kwajalein Range Services, LLC, a joint venture company formed by
Bechtel and Lockheed Martin" runs a hella web page!

https://www.krsjv.com/default.aspx

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan  6 13:21:43 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 13:21:43 -0800
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568D8567.2060402@riseup.net>

Did anyone ever mention that TV forensic shows like "CSI Wherever" are
media-borne federal disinformation operations leading us to believe that
LEOs have unlimited time, manpower and money to pursue the 'bad guys',
when, if you read the news, you will easily see that most of their
operations consist of FABRICATING AND FALSIFYING EVIDENCE.

To wit, the "Miracle FARC Computer":

>
>   **The "FARC Miracle Laptop" Returns To Discredit The New
> Left-leaning Governor Of Guerrero Mexico**
>
> It’s a MIRACLE! (Like an image of Jesus in a slice of french toast)
>
> Did you know the INTERPOL report stated the FARC computer had been
> tampered with? (also this NACLA report) The western media knew, and
> LIED about it.
>
> Now The “FARC Miracle Laptop” Returns To Discredit The New
> Left-leaning Governor Of Guerrero Mexico.
>
> There’s also the Iranian “Computer of Death” and recently, the ISIS
> “Computer of Doom” (See this post)
>
> As the vicious moron who was recently prezident said “Fooled me once…”


Lottsa Links @ http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/101872219239/

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From ryacko at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 14:14:10 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:14:10 -0800
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i1uHKSUWdaYTOJ=m6XPjaj6Dc-HR5mxifhJJG7AX1_j2g@mail.gmail.com>

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/how-lieberman-got-amazon-to-drop-wikileaks

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group that advocates for Internet
freedom of speech by defending court cases, said the axing certainly
doesn't violate the First Amendment. But it is, according to senior staff
attorney Kevin Bankston, "disappointing."

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/sheriffs-threats-against-credit-card-companies-violate-first-amendment

As we wrote about last month, we submitted an amicus brief to the Seventh
Circuit arguing that government officials such as Sheriff Dart may not use
their positions of authority to coerce companies with express or implied
threats of legal liability into taking actions that censor speech—whether
online or offline.




As we all know, escort services are important, not Wikileaks, whose founder
makes use of the CIA's escort service with expected results.
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From ryacko at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 14:46:53 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:46:53 -0800
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>

> These occurred five years apart, and only the second one involved an actual
> court case. I don't think it's a reasonable comparison.

Maybe not. But one must tirelessly question inconsistencies. The
amount of harm to Backpage is very indirect, it was a letter to credit
card companies. The EFF however is okay with a letter to a printer -
the web host - to discontinue service. Comparatively, the harm to
wikileaks was far greater than that to Backpage, but the EFF was more
willing to support Backpage with a brief, than to volunteer support to
Wikileaks.

I have no doubt that Glenn Greenwald will never mention this,
afterall, he himself is selective in questioning other public figures.
He'd never question public figures in a meaningful way. And apparently
neither will the EFF.

With ineffective dissidents like these, who needs oppression?




From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 11:55:04 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:55:04 -0500
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
Message-ID: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>

https://leb.fbi.gov/2016/january/forensic-spotlight-digital-forensic-examination-a-case-study
Copied below (some/all of the formatting will likely be stripped by the
mailing list)

*Forensic Spotlight*

*Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study*

By John McHenry and Michael Gorn, M.S.

1/6/2016

A 2014 investigation into the distribution of child pornography revealed
the identity and geographic location of a suspect. The case expanded to
include domestic and international elements and collaboration by multiple
law enforcement agencies associated with the Internet Crimes Against
Children (ICAC) task force.

A Sarasota, Florida, municipality was tasked with the local investigation,
which led to the January 2015 arrest of a 34-year-old male. The city
requested the assistance of Sarasota County Sheriff’s Office Intelligence
Unit digital forensics experts to complete a comprehensive examination of
the devices seized during the arrest. The information presented with the
case indicated that the suspect was a local commercial and residential
painter.

*Evidence*

Among the items presented for digital forensic examination was a cell phone
with a 13+ megapixel camera capable of capturing high definition images.
Many of the images captured by and extracted from the phone contained a
pixel resolution of 2322 x 4128 and metadata directly linking the photos to
the device. During the forensic examination, experts collected evidence to
support charges for the possession, manufacture, and transmission of child
pornography. The pictures included adult hands and pornographic images of
infants.
[image: Open quotes]

As detectives further enlarged the pictures on the monitor, a high level of
detail was witnessed within the fingerprints.

In April 2015 Sarasota County Sheriff’s Office detectives, using a 42” high
definition monitor, observed a paint-like substance on the hands in the
photos, which correlated to the suspect’s trade as a painter. As detectives
further enlarged the pictures on the monitor, a high level of detail was
witnessed within the fingerprints. After removing the pornographic details,
investigators submitted five images to the Sarasota County Sheriff’s Office
Fingerprint Unit with a request for analysis. The argument of “some other
guy did it” is a common defense in the field of digital forensics because
it often is not possible to determine who actually used a device.
Therefore, the potential of a fingerprint association becomes vitally
important.

*Print Examination*

A latent print examiner (LPE) received the case and examined the ridge
detail present in the images. In one image (figure 1), detail was of
sufficient quality and quantity to be identified as the left middle finger
of the suspect when compared with fingerprints taken during the jail
booking process. Due to the digital image being a reversal of the print on
the booking card, the print as visualized in the phone image had to be
inverted.

*Figure 1*

[image: FS figure 1.jpg]

This first identification was enough for the state attorney’s office to
request a motion to compel the offender to provide major case prints. The
office granted the motion, and the LPE went to the courtroom to take the
set of prints.

Further examination of two digital images from the phone led to
identification of the left thumb of the suspect on the major case prints.
These images were inverted for comparison. A second qualified LPE verified
all identifications.

*Trial*

Prior to trial the defense counsel successfully argued to have the
suspect’s confession suppressed. No faces were present in any images. This
made the fingerprint evidence extremely valuable because the suspect could
argue that a partner who had the same first name shared a common e-mail
account, and the fingers depicted in the images were from the partner. The
subject also could claim guilt for possession, distribution, and
transmission of child pornography, but not the manufacture.

*Conclusion*

The identifications made by the latent print examiners proved that the
suspect was involved directly in the acts as witnessed in the images
recovered by the digital forensic detectives. This conclusive evidence was
one piece of the forensic puzzle that assisted the jury in finding the
offender guilty of 26 charges, including capital sexual battery;
molestation; and possession, distribution, and transmission of child
pornography. The offender faces up to life in prison.

*Detective McHenry is a certified forensic computer examiner assigned to
the digital forensics laboratory of the Sarasota County, Florida, Sheriff’s
Office.*

*Mr. Gorn is a certified crime scene investigator and supervisor of the
forensic services unit for the Sarasota County, Florida, Sheriff’s Office.*



The *Bulletin* currently is seeking submissions for its Forensic Spotlight,
a department that highlights current and noteworthy developments in the
forensic sciences. Articles focus on topics, such as fingerprinting,
ballistics, toxicology, paint analysis, document validity, and other
laboratory-based technology used in crime solving. Submissions can be sent
to*leb at ic.fbi.gov*
<https://leb.fbi.gov/owa/redir.aspx?SURL=YpOZ5D9fwGUCND6iaKk_OGoEqHSOET9bweqBXkxl9kzrz4qj9vfRCG0AYQBpAGwAdABvADoAbABlAGIAQABpAGMALgBmAGIAaQAuAGcAbwB2AA..&URL=mailto%3aleb%40ic.fbi.gov>
for
review and possible publication.
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan  6 15:16:04 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 15:16:04 -0800
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i1uHKSUWdaYTOJ=m6XPjaj6Dc-HR5mxifhJJG7AX1_j2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1uHKSUWdaYTOJ=m6XPjaj6Dc-HR5mxifhJJG7AX1_j2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568DA034.8060000@riseup.net>

Ryan Carboni wrote:
> whose founder makes use of the CIA's escort service

The woman you're discussing, the woman making accusations about Julian
Assange, was involved in a WOMEN'S RIGHTS NGO working in Cuba.

To describe her, wittingly a CIA operator or not, as an 'escort', can
only be described as bizarre and lacking in truthfulness.

Which leads me to ask... Which federal agency do YOU work for?

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From ryacko at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 15:39:34 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 15:39:34 -0800
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i2FwevR5GtGqEaGt-8_Fc1Tr=qxEfwHQEzs=B7BAOLg=w@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Which leads me to ask... Which federal agency do YOU work for?


Evidently the one in an appropriations fight with the one controlling the
Snowden narrative.

Although I am sitting on some damning evidence which shows that the ACLU,
The Intercept, Wikileaks, and Vice Media are themselves sitting on evidence
which shows some blatant violations of civil rights... on the scale of
Netflix's Making A Murderer, but the whole web is pretty circumstantial at
the moment. And you know how libel laws work.

I'm certain it'll come to something eventually.
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Jan  6 13:54:05 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 16:54:05 -0500
Subject: ICYMI They Kill Tech Geeks Too...
In-Reply-To: <CAN9H=iKFMwB5vokFbzygmAP70T-Q4mNc+Nov9XoO4z-0G-aikA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5686D035.9030701@riseup.net> <1451712101.7683.1.camel@moonpatrol>
 <568762AB.6090508@riseup.net> <56878293.2010806@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_w+Qn2mYG8rcWuVyu9Xy87Q+JTGeVm_nfwK2+OY5_ekw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKFMwB5vokFbzygmAP70T-Q4mNc+Nov9XoO4z-0G-aikA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568D8CFD.2030405@pilobilus.net>

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Hash: SHA1

On 01/05/2016 07:25 PM, Jason McVetta wrote:

> Some members of this list may criticize this suggestion as
> naively optimistic.  Maybe it is; but I guess I haven't
> completely given up all hope for our "democratic" political
> institutions.  Anarchists will call that foolish; the rest
> will, I hope, call Assemblyman Chiu's office.

It's a piss poor pitiful Anarchist, who refuses to use the tools
of the State against the interests of the State.



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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan  6 17:25:44 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 17:25:44 -0800
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <568daaf8.11db8c0a.3c0fe.6e67@mx.google.com>
References: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <568daaf8.11db8c0a.3c0fe.6e67@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <568DBE98.9080109@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:55:04 -0500
> Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https: //leb.fbi.gov/2016/january/forensic-spotlight-digital-forensic-examination-a-case-study
>> Copied below (some/all of the formatting will likely be stripped by
>> the mailing list)
> 	What, exactly, is your point? 
>
>

That the FBI and Sarasota PD were capable of enlarging an already hi-def
image of a fingerprint and comparing it to print taken at the suspect's
booking.

Really. NOT. 'rocket science'.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Jan  6 08:48:16 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 18:48:16 +0200
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <568D36F6.5010603@riseup.net>
References: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <568D36F6.5010603@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 07:47:02AM -0800, Rayzer wrote:
> Ps. North Korea successfully detonated a Hydrogen Bomb yesterday.

This is interesting.

nato and UN are uneasy, they want all the bombs for themselves:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/12084087/North-Korea-hydrogen-bomb-Kim-Jong-un-earthquake-live.html

---
UN Security Council meets to discuss the world's response as leaders
urge for "strong action" to be taken against Pyongyang following H-bomb
test which caused 5.1 magnitude earthquake - follow live updates 
---





From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  6 11:45:29 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 19:45:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <644031702.1170604.1452109529724.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



 From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
 To: Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> 

On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 07:47:02AM -0800, Rayzer wrote:> Ps. North Korea successfully detonated a Hydrogen Bomb yesterday.>This is interesting.
>nato and UN are uneasy, they want all the bombs for themselves:
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/12084087/North-Korea-hydrogen-bomb-Kim-Jong-un-earthquake-live.html
>UN Security Council meets to discuss the world's response as leaders
>urge for "strong action" to be taken against Pyongyang following H-bomb
>test which caused 5.1 magnitude earthquake - follow live updates
The Richter scale is logarithmic:  A "Magnitude 0" earthquake is defined as a ground motion of 1 micron (10E-6 meters) 100 kilometers away from the epicenter.  Magnitude 1 means 10 microns motion, Mag 2 means 100 microns motion, etc. (I don't know if "motion" is described as "Peak-to-peak" or RMS, root-mean-square).  Energy goes up by a factor of about 31 for a magnitude increased by one unit.       Jim Bell



  
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 15:49:38 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 20:49:38 -0300
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568da859.24608c0a.4ac39.3062@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:46:53 -0800
Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 
> I have no doubt that Glenn Greenwald will never mention this,
> afterall, he himself is selective in questioning other public figures.
> He'd never question public figures in a meaningful way. And apparently
> neither will the EFF.
> 
> With ineffective dissidents like these, who needs oppression?

	Great point. It's just controlled opposition. 






From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 16:00:49 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 21:00:49 -0300
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568daaf8.11db8c0a.3c0fe.6e67@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:55:04 -0500
Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://leb.fbi.gov/2016/january/forensic-spotlight-digital-forensic-examination-a-case-study
> Copied below (some/all of the formatting will likely be stripped by
> the mailing list)


	What, exactly, is your point? 








From seanl at literati.org  Wed Jan  6 14:32:07 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 22:32:07 +0000
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i1uHKSUWdaYTOJ=m6XPjaj6Dc-HR5mxifhJJG7AX1_j2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1uHKSUWdaYTOJ=m6XPjaj6Dc-HR5mxifhJJG7AX1_j2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-=LdG4temSVBQUE6tEE5vM_ZMH7AZE6cswUzqNrOWpbOw@mail.gmail.com>

These occurred five years apart, and only the second one involved an actual
court case. I don't think it's a reasonable comparison.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:21 PM Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/how-lieberman-got-amazon-to-drop-wikileaks
>
> The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group that advocates for Internet
> freedom of speech by defending court cases, said the axing certainly
> doesn't violate the First Amendment. But it is, according to senior staff
> attorney Kevin Bankston, "disappointing."
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/sheriffs-threats-against-credit-card-companies-violate-first-amendment
>
> As we wrote about last month, we submitted an amicus brief to the Seventh
> Circuit arguing that government officials such as Sheriff Dart may not use
> their positions of authority to coerce companies with express or implied
> threats of legal liability into taking actions that censor speech—whether
> online or offline.
>
>
>
>
> As we all know, escort services are important, not Wikileaks, whose
> founder makes use of the CIA's escort service with expected results.
>
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From seanl at literati.org  Wed Jan  6 15:09:43 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 23:09:43 +0000
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-kEMrWYuVEH-BkxJNc8ypEiTO9BkZ0LHbrUJQR2ew8Mvw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:47 PM Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:

> > These occurred five years apart, and only the second one involved an
> actual
> > court case. I don't think it's a reasonable comparison.
>
> Maybe not. But one must tirelessly question inconsistencies. The
> amount of harm to Backpage is very indirect, it was a letter to credit
> card companies. The EFF however is okay with a letter to a printer -
> the web host - to discontinue service. Comparatively, the harm to
> wikileaks was far greater than that to Backpage, but the EFF was more
> willing to support Backpage with a brief, than to volunteer support to
> Wikileaks.
>

I think you're leaving out something kind of important in your comparison.
Whatever you think of the morality of what Wikileaks is doing (personally,
I strongly support it, even if I don't consider Julian Assange the best
poster child), they *are* breaking US law. Amazon's terms of service don't
allow that, and AIUI that's what Lieberman's (who is below Satan and Eric
Posner on my list of favorite people) letter said. I'm guessing the circuit
court would not have found that the sheriff's letter to the credit card
companies constituted a prior restraint on freedom of speech had it been
about Backpage's breaking the law.


> I have no doubt that Glenn Greenwald will never mention this,
> afterall, he himself is selective in questioning other public figures.
> He'd never question public figures in a meaningful way. And apparently
> neither will the EFF.
>

Everyone needs to make their own choices about where they want to take
risks and spend their time and credibility/political capital. I'm happy
Greenwald and the EFF do what they do. I don't think they're perfect, but
I'm not one to talk; I've found myself self-censoring quite a lot more
since my kids were born.


> With ineffective dissidents like these, who needs oppression?
>

I'd certainly prefer a world with the EFF and Greenwald but without the
NSA, CIA, GCHQ, etc. I'm sure you don't mean this literally, but I do think
it's important to keep a sense of perspective.

If you're dissatisfied with the willingness of various dissidents to...
well... dissent, let's talk about how we can influence them or others to
dissent in ways you think will be more effective.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 20:51:29 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 23:51:29 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.wired.com/2016/01/david-chaum-father-of-online-anonymity-plan-to-end-the-crypto-wars/?mbid=social_twitter

Now Chaum has returned with his first online privacy invention in more
than a decade. And with it, he wants to bring those crypto wars to an
end... a new encryption scheme he calls PrivaTegrity ... based on
cMix.

Chaum wouldn't comment on whether the project... would be
commercialized or run as a non-profit.

Chaum is also building into PrivaTegrity another feature... a backdoor
that allows anyone doing something "generally recognized as evil" to
have their anonymity and privacy stripped altogether.

Nine server council... a hoseablitly focus point similar to Tor dirauths.
In any case... interesting.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/294737065/cMix-Anonymization-by-High-Performance-Scalable-Mixing




From rsw at cs.stanford.edu  Wed Jan  6 21:41:16 2016
From: rsw at cs.stanford.edu (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 00:41:16 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160107054116.GB2125@antiproton.jfet.org>

grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chaum is also building into PrivaTegrity another feature... a backdoor
> that allows anyone doing something "generally recognized as evil" to
> have their anonymity and privacy stripped altogether.

This isn't exactly true. The way he presented it in his talk at Real
World Crypto today, there is some public contract associated with the
system that governs how eavesdropping can occur. One valid contract is
"no eavesdropping."

The idea is that a policy enforcement mechanism is built in, the
policy is well known to the participants, and the system is designed
to resist any eavesdropping that is not consistent with that policy.

It appears that one must assume at least one non-colluding mix server
in order for this guarantee to hold. The proposed mechanism for
ensuring non-collusion is hosting servers in different administrative
domains.

> [scribd url]

scribd is disgusting. Here's the real source that doesn't hold the
document hostage:
    https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/008

-=rsw



From carimachet at gmail.com  Wed Jan  6 16:25:19 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:25:19 +0200
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-kEMrWYuVEH-BkxJNc8ypEiTO9BkZ0LHbrUJQR2ew8Mvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHKdp-kEMrWYuVEH-BkxJNc8ypEiTO9BkZ0LHbrUJQR2ew8Mvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQXmF5_pJQEA_4FPPMy+B-enGpSeG3YCP_ZS5YBnBKY03w@mail.gmail.com>

The @eff is pretty fucked up

The anomizers history is intertwined with that of the USG

I find their budgets vague

They funded tor numerous times thru the years which i find strange

They do no boots on the ground work that i am aware of

They have been supra-nationalistic which is strange

I cld go on but... yay lets all be grateful for what exsists sure YAY!
however having a critical eye should be a main job of any one of us ... o
whats that saying?... i cant remember .... oh yay >>> trust no one

On Jan 7, 2016 1:15 AM, "Sean Lynch" <seanl at literati.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:47 PM Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > These occurred five years apart, and only the second one involved an
>> actual
>> > court case. I don't think it's a reasonable comparison.
>>
>> Maybe not. But one must tirelessly question inconsistencies. The
>> amount of harm to Backpage is very indirect, it was a letter to credit
>> card companies. The EFF however is okay with a letter to a printer -
>> the web host - to discontinue service. Comparatively, the harm to
>> wikileaks was far greater than that to Backpage, but the EFF was more
>> willing to support Backpage with a brief, than to volunteer support to
>> Wikileaks.
>>
>
> I think you're leaving out something kind of important in your comparison.
> Whatever you think of the morality of what Wikileaks is doing (personally,
> I strongly support it, even if I don't consider Julian Assange the best
> poster child), they *are* breaking US law. Amazon's terms of service don't
> allow that, and AIUI that's what Lieberman's (who is below Satan and Eric
> Posner on my list of favorite people) letter said. I'm guessing the circuit
> court would not have found that the sheriff's letter to the credit card
> companies constituted a prior restraint on freedom of speech had it been
> about Backpage's breaking the law.
>
>
>> I have no doubt that Glenn Greenwald will never mention this,
>> afterall, he himself is selective in questioning other public figures.
>> He'd never question public figures in a meaningful way. And apparently
>> neither will the EFF.
>>
>
> Everyone needs to make their own choices about where they want to take
> risks and spend their time and credibility/political capital. I'm happy
> Greenwald and the EFF do what they do. I don't think they're perfect, but
> I'm not one to talk; I've found myself self-censoring quite a lot more
> since my kids were born.
>
>
>> With ineffective dissidents like these, who needs oppression?
>>
>
> I'd certainly prefer a world with the EFF and Greenwald but without the
> NSA, CIA, GCHQ, etc. I'm sure you don't mean this literally, but I do think
> it's important to keep a sense of perspective.
>
> If you're dissatisfied with the willingness of various dissidents to...
> well... dissent, let's talk about how we can influence them or others to
> dissent in ways you think will be more effective.
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:18:09 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 05:18:09 -0500
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>

That was the point.
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:42:35 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 05:42:35 -0500
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_RCtRXg=7ka0ODBqokHwgKKRTcXtqtyC5dsHNpLy8B5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, I didn't finish that thought.

That was the point - that 99% of the time it's not some super secret
next-next-gen ECHELON CSI super-crap that gets someone, it's the little
things. Enhanced prints, broken tail lights, an unmasked IP address, shit
like that.

To put it in a metaphor, so many people waste so much time worrying about
super-thieves getting past their laser grid that they never realize when
they have their pocket picked, etc.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:18 AM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> That was the point.
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:46:15 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 05:46:15 -0500
Subject: DHS Daily Infrastructure Reports
Message-ID: <CANFTA09SgPrPwD+yZ0Dv2t9N_w+J4-GXLc__p3kFGZVxSbobuA@mail.gmail.com>

The DHS Daily Open Source Infrastructure Report is collected each business
day as a summary of open-source published information concerning
significant critical infrastructure issues. Each Daily Report is divided by
the critical infrastructure sectors and key assets defined in the National
Infrastructure Protection Plan.

https://archive.org/details/DHSDailyReports
800 Daily Reports from DHS gathered so far, with FOIA requests pending for
more.

They'll be uploaded individually as soon as the new batch of
sub-collections are created (hooray backlog)

Enjoy!

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From ziolkoneo at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 02:05:13 2016
From: ziolkoneo at gmail.com (Tracerneo)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:05:13 +0100
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 7 January 2016 at 05:51, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>online privacy
>encryption scheme
>backdoor that allows anyone […] to have their anonymity and privacy stripped altogether

I don't know, maybe I'm retarded, but this doesn't compute.

What I'm afraid though, is that such abominations might catch on,
because people like adopting flawed things, that give them illusion of
control.

-- 
Daniel Ziółkowski
http://tracerneo.eu.org/




From adi at hexapodia.org  Thu Jan  7 11:41:18 2016
From: adi at hexapodia.org (Andy Isaacson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:41:18 -0800
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160107194117.GR13670@hexapodia.org>

On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 11:51:29PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> Nine server council... a hoseablitly focus point similar to Tor dirauths.
> In any case... interesting.

The privaTegrity (PT) backdoor is significantly more malignant than the
Tor dirauth issue.

If you pwn the Tor dirauths, you can sign and publish a false
"consensns" to clients that will cause them to use only your relays for
new connections, thus breaking anonymity for new connections.  Doing so
leaves a trail of bits showing that this was done (mostly just on the
target system).  Tor is actively seeking solutions to make their system
more privacy-preserving and if a better option shows up in research,
they will likely adopt it.

If you pwn the PT overlords, you can retrospectively deanonymize
connections that you recorded in the past.  If PT were deployed at scale
with a, say, 12-month deanonymization window [1] then every connection
during that interval would be silently deanonymized by APT0 who has
stealthily exfiltrated the overlord private material.

[1] the whole point of the PT backdoor and its claim to "break the
    crypto war stalemate" is that a lawful investigation could go back
    and ask "who sent this bomb threat".

If PT were deployed at scale and a vulnerability were found that used
the backdoor, the developers are left with an uncomfortable choice --
fix the vuln and thereby break the backdoor, or leave users vulnerable
and preserve the so-called "lawful" access?  This is not a conflict that
I want my privacy technologists to have to navigate.

Now, cMix seems like an interesting technology (much like the tech bits
of eCash were interesting back in the 90s, a previous #chaumism[3]).  I
chatted with one of the coauthors yesterday and there's clearly an
interesting performance improvement to existing mix networks; read the
paper[2] for more details.  But the PT system built on it is predicated
on an unrealistic model of datacenter security, international
geopolitics, network economics, cyberwar, and network reliability.

[2] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/008.pdf
[3] https://twitter.com/hashtag/chaumisms

-andy




From carimachet at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 09:37:16 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 18:37:16 +0100
Subject: Electronic Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQXmF5_pJQEA_4FPPMy+B-enGpSeG3YCP_ZS5YBnBKY03w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i3fADY9WbGsjnDJtcbQ0qU43iLRC2-Hi1TL3vomqKDpng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHKdp-kEMrWYuVEH-BkxJNc8ypEiTO9BkZ0LHbrUJQR2ew8Mvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXmF5_pJQEA_4FPPMy+B-enGpSeG3YCP_ZS5YBnBKY03w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVnuJzWcGBT6_oahUtKazG_=gLgrF3NPeQ8O90FGJP-Bw@mail.gmail.com>

limited hang out

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> The @eff is pretty fucked up
>
> The anomizers history is intertwined with that of the USG
>
> I find their budgets vague
>
> They funded tor numerous times thru the years which i find strange
>
> They do no boots on the ground work that i am aware of
>
> They have been supra-nationalistic which is strange
>
> I cld go on but... yay lets all be grateful for what exsists sure YAY!
> however having a critical eye should be a main job of any one of us ... o
> whats that saying?... i cant remember .... oh yay >>> trust no one
>
> On Jan 7, 2016 1:15 AM, "Sean Lynch" <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:47 PM Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > These occurred five years apart, and only the second one involved an
>>> actual
>>> > court case. I don't think it's a reasonable comparison.
>>>
>>> Maybe not. But one must tirelessly question inconsistencies. The
>>> amount of harm to Backpage is very indirect, it was a letter to credit
>>> card companies. The EFF however is okay with a letter to a printer -
>>> the web host - to discontinue service. Comparatively, the harm to
>>> wikileaks was far greater than that to Backpage, but the EFF was more
>>> willing to support Backpage with a brief, than to volunteer support to
>>> Wikileaks.
>>>
>>
>> I think you're leaving out something kind of important in your
>> comparison. Whatever you think of the morality of what Wikileaks is doing
>> (personally, I strongly support it, even if I don't consider Julian Assange
>> the best poster child), they *are* breaking US law. Amazon's terms of
>> service don't allow that, and AIUI that's what Lieberman's (who is below
>> Satan and Eric Posner on my list of favorite people) letter said. I'm
>> guessing the circuit court would not have found that the sheriff's letter
>> to the credit card companies constituted a prior restraint on freedom of
>> speech had it been about Backpage's breaking the law.
>>
>>
>>> I have no doubt that Glenn Greenwald will never mention this,
>>> afterall, he himself is selective in questioning other public figures.
>>> He'd never question public figures in a meaningful way. And apparently
>>> neither will the EFF.
>>>
>>
>> Everyone needs to make their own choices about where they want to take
>> risks and spend their time and credibility/political capital. I'm happy
>> Greenwald and the EFF do what they do. I don't think they're perfect, but
>> I'm not one to talk; I've found myself self-censoring quite a lot more
>> since my kids were born.
>>
>>
>>> With ineffective dissidents like these, who needs oppression?
>>>
>>
>> I'd certainly prefer a world with the EFF and Greenwald but without the
>> NSA, CIA, GCHQ, etc. I'm sure you don't mean this literally, but I do think
>> it's important to keep a sense of perspective.
>>
>> If you're dissatisfied with the willingness of various dissidents to...
>> well... dissent, let's talk about how we can influence them or others to
>> dissent in ways you think will be more effective.
>>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan  7 18:39:01 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 18:39:01 -0800
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <568f13e9.715c8c0a.b301.ffffe48b@mx.google.com>
References: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0_RCtRXg=7ka0ODBqokHwgKKRTcXtqtyC5dsHNpLy8B5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <568f13e9.715c8c0a.b301.ffffe48b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <568F2145.8030106@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 05:42:35 -0500
> Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I didn't finish that thought.
>>
>> That was the point - that 99% of the time it's not some super secret
>> next-next-gen ECHELON CSI super-crap that gets someone, it's the
>> little things. Enhanced prints, broken tail lights, an unmasked IP
>> address, shit like that.

Do you realize how many times in the last decade alone the FBI crime
lab's been skewered, SHUT DOWN ENTIRELY FOR FUCKING UP EVIDENCE? Did you
know they are the ONLY agency that investigates their own shootings and
they're ALL justified? That most of the people the FBI manages to put in
prison aren't imprisoned for the charges sought, but for lying to a
federal officer (which is why you SHOULD NEVER talk to the FBI. They
know the answers before they ask the questions) Did you know that if I,
or anyone with decent vision had the print card and that photo we could
match it without any other forensic analysis than plain-sight observation?

Dude You're either totally ignorant about this and just posting out of
boredom or you're trolling. Probably both. Go watch CSI on TeeVee and
believe in their invincibility. You'll be in good company amongst the
programmed media-zombie 'mericans

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


>
> 	You don't know if that happens 99% of the time. I highly doubt
> 	it does. 
>
> 	Fact remains, the kind of access that governments have to
> 	electronic communications enables them to catch lots of people
> 	for whatever 'crime' they want. 
>
>  
>> To put it in a metaphor, so many people waste so much time worrying
>> about super-thieves getting past their laser grid that they never
>> realize when they have their pocket picked, etc.
>
> 	That may be true sometimes, but government surveillance remains
> 	a pretty serious threat, and the claim that the cops catch
> 	people doing 'old fashioned' 'police work' is mostly a smoke
> 	screen/propaganda. 
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:18 AM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That was the point.
>>>
>



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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan  7 19:33:57 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 19:33:57 -0800
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?A_Redaction_Re-Visited:_NSA_Targeted_=e2=80=9cThe_Two_Lea?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ding=e2=80=9d_Encryption_Chips?=
Message-ID: <568F2E25.9000300@riseup.net>

Plain text and html...
> ..and no, I don't give a fuck about anyone's Greenwald-bashing. AFAICT
> he's doing it EXACTLY right. Want Dox dumps? Talk to the Anonymous
> children. The ones with more than a 3rd grade vocabulary MIGHT be able
> to formulate a coherent sentence on paper.
>
> Also see this thread at a reddit IAMA that greenwald held regarding
> the topic. A number of engineering types [scroll down... 'bardfinn']
> were speculating based on Greenwald's discussion
> https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1nisdy/were_glenn_greenwald_and_janine_gibson_of_the/


[...]

On September 5, 2013, The Guardian
<http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security>,
the /New York Times
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/us/nsa-foils-much-internet-encryption.html?_r=0>// /and/ProPublica
<http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption> /jointly
reported — based on documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden —
that the National Security Agency had compromised some of the encryption
that is most commonly used to secure internet transactions. The
/NYT /explained/ /that NSA “has circumvented or cracked much of the
encryption, or digital scrambling, that guards global commerce and
banking systems, protects sensitive data like trade secrets and medical
records, and automatically secures the emails, web searches, internet
chats and phone calls of Americans and others around the world.” One
2010 memo described that “for the past decade, NSA has led an
aggressive, multipronged effort to break widely used internet encryption
technologies.”

In support of the reporting, all three papers published redacted
portions of documents from the NSA along with its British counterpart,
GCHQ. Prior to publication of the story, the NSA vehemently argued that
any reporting of any kind on this program would jeopardize national
security by alerting terrorists to the fact that encryption products had
been successfully compromised. After the stories were published, U.S.
officials aggressively attacked
<http://www.reuters.com/article/net-us-usa-security-snowden-intelligence-idUSBRE9850RU20130906>
the newspapers for endangering national security and helping terrorists
with these revelations.

All three newspapers reporting this story rejected those arguments prior
to publication and decided to report the encryption-cracking successes.
Then-/NYT/ Executive Editor Jill Abramson described
<http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/decision-to-publish-against-government-request-was-not-a-particularly-anguished-one/>
the decision to publish as “not a particularly anguished one” in light
of the public interest in knowing about this program, and /ProPublica/
editors published a lengthy explanation
<http://www.propublica.org/article/why-we-published-the-decryption-story> along
with the story justifying their decision.

All three outlets, while reporting the anti-encryption efforts, redacted
portions of the documents they published or described. One redaction in
particular, found in the /NYT /documents
<http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/05/us/documents-reveal-nsa-campaign-against-encryption.html>,
from the FY 2013 “black budget,” proved to be especially controversial
among tech and security experts, as they believed that the specific
identity of compromised encryption standards was being concealed by the
redaction.

None of the documents in the Snowden archive identify all or even most
of the encryption standards that had been targeted, and there was a
concern that if an attempt were made to identify one or two of them, it
could mislead the public into believing that the others were safe. There
also seemed to be a concern among some editors that any attempt to
identify specific encryption standards would enable terrorists to know
which ones to avoid. One redaction in particular, from the /NYT/, was
designed to strike this balance and was the one that became most
controversial:

The issue of this specific redaction was raised
<https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/464044144906600448> again
<https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/464015111913369600> by
security researchers last month
<https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/678573907947966464> in the wake of
news
<https://forums.juniper.net/t5/Security-Incident-Response/Important-Announcement-about-ScreenOS/ba-p/285554> of
a backdoor found on Juniper systems, followed by /The Intercept/’s
reporting
<https://theintercept.com/2015/12/23/juniper-firewalls-successfully-targeted-by-nsa-and-gchq/>
that the NSA and GCHQ had targeted Juniper. In light of that news, we
examined the documents referenced by those 2013 articles with particular
attention to that controversial redaction, and decided that it was
warranted to un-redact that passage. It reads as follows:

<https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/01/bull.png>


The reference to “the two leading encryption chips” provides some hints,
but no definitive proof, as to which ones were successfully targeted.
Matthew Green, a cryptography expert at Johns Hopkins, declined to
speculate on which companies this might reference. But he said that “the
damage has already been done. From what I’ve heard, many foreign
purchasers have already begun to look at all U.S.-manufactured
encryption technology with a much more skeptical eye as a result of what
the NSA has done. That’s too bad, because I suspect only a minority of
products have been compromised this way.”

NSA requested until 5 p.m. today to respond but then failed to do
so. (/Update/: The NSA subsequently emailed to say: “It would be
accurate to state that NSA declined to comment.”)

[...]

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/04/a-redaction-re-visited-nsa-targeted-the-two-leading-encryption-chips/

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan  7 20:37:55 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 20:37:55 -0800
Subject: [addenda] A Redaction Re-Visited: NSA Targeted ...
In-Reply-To: <568F2E25.9000300@riseup.net>
References: <568F2E25.9000300@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <568F3D23.6060202@riseup.net>

For those too lazy to look it up here's some speculation from
Greenwald's IAMA October 31 2013.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1nisdy/were_glenn_greenwald_and_janine_gibson_of_the/ccj4rvw

Again, plain text and html:

While I do not know the name redacted in that report, the "VPN and Web
encryption devices" mentioned are most likely hardware SSL acceleration
appliances <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSL_acceleration>[1] , and due
to the sensitive nature of the backdoor being discussed, are probably in
chips fabricated by a US-based silicon designer using a US-located
silicon fabrication plant.

The reason for that is twofold; first, you don't want a foreign power
discovering your backdoor in a chip, and second, you don't want a
foreign power inserting their own backdoor.

The vendors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSL_acceleration#Vendors>[2]
list in Wikipedia lists the following vendors of SSL appliances:

  * Barracuda Networks
  * Array Networks
  * CAI Networks
  * Cavium Networks (fabless semiconductor designer)
  * Cisco Systems
  * Citrix Systems
  * Cotendo
  * Coyote point systems
  * Crescendo Networks
  * Exinda
  * F5 Networks
  * Foundry Networks
  * Forum Systems
  * Freescale Semiconductor (fabless and fab-owning)
  * Hifn
  * IBM (fab-owning)
  * Interface Masters Technologies
  * jetNEXUS
  * Juniper Networks
  * Nortel Networks
  * Radware
  * Riverbed Technology
  * Strangeloop Networks
  * Sun Microsystems

Of those, the two names that stand out most are IBM (which is no
stranger to crippling encryption upon the demands of the NSA, with
fabrication plants throughout the world and the United States, but which
isn't significantly given to florid chip descriptors) and Freescale
Semiconductors - it is itself a large semiconductor fabricator, focused
on semiconductor fabrication, with foundries in Chandler, AZ and Oak
Hill, TX.

One not mentioned in that list is Broadcom, a semiconductor manufacturer
that is /fabless/, that is - it doesn't own any fabrication capability,
itself. It does, however, design a very large percentage of
communications chips used in the industry. Not finding a Broadcom chip
somewhere in a device is notable.

The redacted space is roughly twelve all-caps letters or sixteen
mixed-case letters in that font. If we could have someone identify
exactly which font was used, then we could experiment with chip names
from SSL acceleration device manifests, in that font, and see which fit
into the redacted space, possibly with the manufacturer's name in front
of the chip - for example, the Freescale SAHARA
<http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?code=NETWORK_SECURITY_CRYPTOG>[3]
appears to fit nicely - and is touted as having configurable access
control to the random number generator and hashing functions on that
feature sheet linked - but is just one possibility. Another is the
PowerArchitecture™ from Mocana -formerly FreeScale
<https://mocana.com/partnerprog/freescale/selling_freescale_sca.pdf>[4] .

If I were in the position to lead a project to reverse-engineer the
possible name of the chip, I would:

  * Find out what the top five top-selling SSL acceleration device
    manufacturers in the world are;
  * get a list of their best-selling products;
  * Get parts manifests for each of their popular products, possibly
    from an electronics tear down research organisation;
  * Locate and name the crypto accelerator chips;
  * Determine who designed and fabricated those chips.
  * Get the name of the font used in the report in the imgur link;
  * Compose the name of each of those chips in that font at that pitch;
  * Do a little comparing.

/Edit/: OP is assuming that the report is listing /two, separate/ chips.
While that is /possible/, it is equally as likely that one variety or
species of chip is being named! i.e. /Intel Pentium chips/. There is
also no guarantee that the redacted text lists a florid,
marketing-friendly name, and may possibly be a code name internal to the
US intelligence community. These and other alternatives should not be
discounted.

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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 18:53:57 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 21:53:57 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <20160107194117.GR13670@hexapodia.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2_i_=WrJzRA0xFks8Oc3YpRdQ8thtN0G942i=kQcGhu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160107194117.GR13670@hexapodia.org>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zeauoHjswqvjwA8zK2BE+johwZxYsq8RqGjtFs89Hhstg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Andy Isaacson <adi at hexapodia.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 11:51:29PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> > Nine server council... a hoseablitly focus point similar to Tor dirauths.
> > In any case... interesting.
>
> The privaTegrity (PT) backdoor is significantly more malignant than the
> Tor dirauth issue.
>
> If you pwn the Tor dirauths, you can sign and publish a false
> "consensns" to clients that will cause them to use only your relays for
> new connections, thus breaking anonymity for new connections.  Doing so
> leaves a trail of bits showing that this was done (mostly just on the
> target system).  Tor is actively seeking solutions to make their system
> more privacy-preserving and if a better option shows up in research,
> they will likely adopt it.
>
> If you pwn the PT overlords, you can retrospectively deanonymize
> connections that you recorded in the past.  If PT were deployed at scale
> with a, say, 12-month deanonymization window [1] then every connection
> during that interval would be silently deanonymized by APT0 who has
> stealthily exfiltrated the overlord private material.
>
> [1] the whole point of the PT backdoor and its claim to "break the
>     crypto war stalemate" is that a lawful investigation could go back
>     and ask "who sent this bomb threat".
>
> If PT were deployed at scale and a vulnerability were found that used
> the backdoor, the developers are left with an uncomfortable choice --
> fix the vuln and thereby break the backdoor, or leave users vulnerable
> and preserve the so-called "lawful" access?  This is not a conflict that
> I want my privacy technologists to have to navigate.
>
> Now, cMix seems like an interesting technology (much like the tech bits
> of eCash were interesting back in the 90s, a previous #chaumism[3]).  I
> chatted with one of the coauthors yesterday and there's clearly an
> interesting performance improvement to existing mix networks; read the
> paper[2] for more details.  But the PT system built on it is predicated
> on an unrealistic model of datacenter security, international
> geopolitics, network economics, cyberwar, and network reliability.
>
> [2] https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/008.pdf
> [3] https://twitter.com/hashtag/chaumisms
>
> -andy
>


To add;
It was surprising (to me) that Chaum should be the one to produce the first
of the modern 'solving the key escrow problem' algorithms. Academia has
been ignoring this particular problem for quite a while - I expect that
more proposed solutions will follow, solutions that will be more difficult
to prove insecure...

PT sounds like its rooted in threat models & crypto systems from 10-15
years ago - I'm not sure why anyone would migrate to this system - over
anything presently available (unless everything else is made illegal, of
course).

Check out cMix's 'beta' paper & make attacks as necessary.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/294737065/cMix-Anonymization-by-High-Performance-Scalable-Mixing

Some of Chaum's earlier work involved designing systems with arbiters where
3rd parties could prove evidence of misdeeds - this system, using threshold
secret sharing (right?), doesn't expose the same properties.

Which means that, of course, operators of routers are free to collude and
subject to TAO from various IA.

-Travis
-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  7 17:40:49 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 22:40:49 -0300
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_RCtRXg=7ka0ODBqokHwgKKRTcXtqtyC5dsHNpLy8B5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0_RCtRXg=7ka0ODBqokHwgKKRTcXtqtyC5dsHNpLy8B5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568f13e9.715c8c0a.b301.ffffe48b@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 7 Jan 2016 05:42:35 -0500
Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, I didn't finish that thought.
> 
> That was the point - that 99% of the time it's not some super secret
> next-next-gen ECHELON CSI super-crap that gets someone, it's the
> little things. Enhanced prints, broken tail lights, an unmasked IP
> address, shit like that.


	You don't know if that happens 99% of the time. I highly doubt
	it does. 

	Fact remains, the kind of access that governments have to
	electronic communications enables them to catch lots of people
	for whatever 'crime' they want. 

 
> To put it in a metaphor, so many people waste so much time worrying
> about super-thieves getting past their laser grid that they never
> realize when they have their pocket picked, etc.


	That may be true sometimes, but government surveillance remains
	a pretty serious threat, and the claim that the cops catch
	people doing 'old fashioned' 'police work' is mostly a smoke
	screen/propaganda. 





> 
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:18 AM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > That was the point.
> >




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 00:44:42 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 03:44:42 -0500
Subject: Obama gonna crypto your guns, they gonna throw the killswitch on yall
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28KYMUwr1_UQvg=0fuHRS1Y8yEVQbhc89nN10-9Fu07EQ@mail.gmail.com>

Digital smart guns, digital finger photo voice dna retina prints,
digital databases and checkpoints, digital connected backdoored
clipper chipped things, bigdata on you, legal twisting of former
rights, bans on your uses of digits, no analog, no cash, ubiquitous
worldwide surveillance, tracking and control... It's all falling
into place, from every country and government... the great digital
killswitch and enslavement device is coming. Kiss your freedom goodbye.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 01:25:24 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 04:25:24 -0500
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <568F2145.8030106@riseup.net>
References: <CANFTA0-M4JCT7+C3mdO-jmcZVV9mNCG+nGYHRzmWTH9PWeCNdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0_RCtRXg=7ka0ODBqokHwgKKRTcXtqtyC5dsHNpLy8B5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <568f13e9.715c8c0a.b301.ffffe48b@mx.google.com> <568F2145.8030106@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_kJhDHmDMcTJSBr96gDMW52ztfbeRE6Jm3f2AR0a5pQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> boredom or you're trolling. Probably both. Go watch CSI on TeeVee and
> believe in their invincibility. You'll be in good company amongst the
> programmed media-zombie 'mericans

Don't seem to be seeing any criminal *defense* oriented teevee
series in any country, now do we... it's all daily programming...
defense only wins in the movies.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 01:36:37 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 04:36:37 -0500
Subject: [tor-talk] Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ...
 PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <5A9308FB-9802-46C1-BDD1-C668B6F1F9EB@gmail.com>
References: <5A9308FB-9802-46C1-BDD1-C668B6F1F9EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28ZrnCKt_tqi2zPvSixHKTL-8PNV8JjHeZei85zTh0twg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Bryan Ford <brynosaurus at gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy Isaacson wrote:
>> The privaTegrity (PT) backdoor is significantly more malignant than the
>> Tor dirauth issue.

[Massive snip in from worthwhile tor-talk thread on central points of
authority / DHT...]

Are there networks where there is an autonomous AI engine within
the network itself, a possible distributed execution sandbox,  that
decides what, likely changing over time, set of nodes will serve elevated
roles?
And where AI's programmed evaluation metrics may somehow be tied
to some kind of consensus wherein like blockchain, major portions
of net must agree or risk fork.
And how self-adaptive and permanent is the AI?




From admin at pilobilus.net  Fri Jan  8 09:50:05 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:50:05 -0500
Subject: Obama gonna crypto your guns, they gonna throw the killswitch on
 yall
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28KYMUwr1_UQvg=0fuHRS1Y8yEVQbhc89nN10-9Fu07EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28KYMUwr1_UQvg=0fuHRS1Y8yEVQbhc89nN10-9Fu07EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568FF6CD.50107@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/08/2016 03:44 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> Digital smart guns, digital finger photo voice dna retina
> prints, digital databases and checkpoints, digital connected
> backdoored clipper chipped things, bigdata on you, legal
> twisting of former rights, bans on your uses of digits, no
> analog, no cash, ubiquitous worldwide surveillance, tracking
> and control... It's all falling into place, from every country
> and government... the great digital killswitch and enslavement
> device is coming. Kiss your freedom goodbye.

Kinda makes the pending collapse of what we laughingly call
"civilization" a joke where the good news and bad news are one and
the same.



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From admin at pilobilus.net  Fri Jan  8 09:54:02 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 12:54:02 -0500
Subject: A good way to spur adoption of strong cryptography and security
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0RZRRTxb_4Gfh45PAoKt4wtMzYaxKg887Cr-YMSDdC+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0RZRRTxb_4Gfh45PAoKt4wtMzYaxKg887Cr-YMSDdC+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568FF7BA.7040906@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 12/25/2015 05:43 AM, Ryan Carboni wrote:

> Can foreign governments still teach blackmailed government
> employees how to pass a polygraph?

Sure, and that will hold true right up until functional MRIs
replace polygraphs as the bureaucratic terrorists' weapon of choice.

:o)



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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 10:10:08 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:10:08 -0300
Subject: FBI Digital Forensic Examination: A Case Study
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08zJBkW-i7ajztzcGmDmNy3Z6okm_F=g3KqeKA8Ww6yhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568ffbc4.45dc8c0a.6b45d.ffffd153@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:55:04 -0500
Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://leb.fbi.gov/2016/january/forensic-spotlight-digital-forensic-examination-a-case-study



	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering


	You're welcome.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 12:42:39 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:42:39 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] Verisimilitrust
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4BC30B2@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4BC30B2@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28BgxCw+fd5dOJwQPFEWKGb-yO4bpd5vUHkTh0WfgOeyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> From the Mozilla policy list, in a discussion about what to do about
> Kazakhstan requesting that their MITM certificate be added to the browser
> trust lists:
>
>   It would appear from this information, that this CA (and probably others
>   like it) is deliberately serving a dual role:
>
>   1. It is the legitimate trust anchor for some domains that browser
>      users will need to access (in this case: Kazakh government sites
>      under gov.kz).
>
>   2. It is the trust anchor for fake MITM certificates used to harm
>      browser users, and which should thus be regarded as invalid.
>
> causing an immediate panicked response to try and find a reason to deny the
> request, because the CA/Browser Forum policies don't actually say you can't
> have an acknowledged MITM cert as a trusted root:
>
>   Kazakhstan has submitted the request for root inclusion:
>   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1232689
>
>   So, we really do need to have this discussion now.
>
> I think we need to formally give up on the use of the word "trust" in its
> conventional sense in relation to PKI.  Browser PKI has done to the term
> "trust" what the popular press has done to the word "hacker".
>
>   Thus it would be prudent to extend the trust list format (and the NSS code
>   using it) to be able to specify additional restrictions beyond those
>   specified in the CA root itself.
>
>   [...]
>
> In other words certificates are going to be turned inside-out, instead of the
> cert encoding policy-related information as per X.509, we've got a third party
> (browser vendors) imposing its policy on the certificate from the outside.
> We've already got the same third party overriding CAs on revocation via
> hardcoded cert blacklists, and as has been shown over and over again, CAs do
> only the bare minimum of checking for anything but EV certs.  So if this
> change is made we can summarise the purpose of a CA as follows:
>
>   Verify identity in certs - Not really (except to justify premium-priced EVs).
>   Provide policy for certs - No, the browser vendor will.
>   Provide revocation info for certs - No, the browser vendor will.
>   Charge money to turn off the browser warnings - Yes.
>
> So that's pretty much pared browser PKI down to its essence, a license to
> print money for a select group of companies.

The entire planet ignored warnings preached by early wise men and
bought into the CA "trust" hype and money printing game for decades.
Shame it took rampant surveillance and attacks for people to
begin pulling their head out of the sand, let alone search for different
models.

If your new model involves someone getting rich, or relies on
centralization / trust that you have no part in endorsing... it's broken.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 13:46:25 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 16:46:25 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] Obama gonna crypto your guns, they gonna throw the
 killswitch on yall
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.20.1601081603260.16996@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <CAD2Ti28KYMUwr1_UQvg=0fuHRS1Y8yEVQbhc89nN10-9Fu07EQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LFD.2.20.1601081603260.16996@bofh.nohats.ca>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29WO9JX_KERzgzDLdTb8EuJo87y-Okn6sV1PrXrP4cqNg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Paul Wouters <paul at cypherpunks.ca> wrote:
> I think it is a bigger problem that people - strike that, Americans -
> are afraid of killswitches for their guns than that they are about the
> surveillance and killswitches for self driving cars.

Of course it's not "people", widely, globally... as they either
gave up or never had that frame of reference to consider
being "afraid of" today, some of whom now live in systems / places
that have since become worse. Poking in such manner at Americans
that do have that frame... doesn't look smart.

Of course they're not going to give them up... because it's
really hard to surveill those trying to take stuff away from
them, and they certainly can't drive dead cars into the
thieves either. Limited options... limited solutions.

Are you going to give up your crypto?
No? Oh, I see, so now you're afraid of that.
Because you know you can use it to keep stuff away from the thieves.

Americans are as dumb as the rest, but not always as
dumb as you think.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 14:35:21 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:35:21 -0500
Subject: What did Linode do?
In-Reply-To: <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAO7N=i0ow+3e86ZDEKFMNposHVPvQL3SyzZ6hc4LmEE68_4xbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <568D36F6.5010603@riseup.net> <20160106164816.GA3763@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29pMhOL08UetYbeQoai5qn30zjKgR16Xds5SFgYu6L6xg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 07:47:02AM -0800, Rayzer wrote:
>> Ps. North Korea successfully detonated a Hydrogen Bomb yesterday.
>
> This is interesting.
>
> nato and UN are uneasy, they want all the bombs for themselves:

Always amusing the response to those who seek to
assert their own parity and independance and rights.

What are they going to say if Switzerland decides
to "me too" even if simply for the sake of doing it.

Turning it around... many countries endorse crypto
or don't care to ban crypto... where are their global voices
in unison against the banning rhetoric spewed by say US/UK?

Cowering from their nukes?

"Me too" indeed.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 12:55:28 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 17:55:28 -0300
Subject: [Cryptography] Verisimilitrust
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28BgxCw+fd5dOJwQPFEWKGb-yO4bpd5vUHkTh0WfgOeyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4BC30B2@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <CAD2Ti28BgxCw+fd5dOJwQPFEWKGb-yO4bpd5vUHkTh0WfgOeyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56902284.874d370a.40a5d.05cd@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 8 Jan 2016 15:42:39 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:


> If your new model involves someone getting rich, or relies on
> centralization / trust that you have no part in endorsing... it's
> broken.

	...or works exactly as designed.





From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 18:23:08 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 18:23:08 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>

usually there is no confirmation regarding active investigations in
FOIA replies.

unlike this one! :)
   [[ see attached. ]]
"In short, this is a very open and very active criminal investigation
and we absolutely cannot release anything, particularly [[
...REDACTED... ]] and we cannot assist [REDACTED] by releasing
anything at this time."
- https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/speedyexemptnotes-21372/#file-71041


the reason original request was speedily rejected is two fold:
1. a prior request for similar information was made by someone in 2014.
2. in 2015, as in 2014, there was an ongoing investigation regarding
the incident.

the incident in question resulted from this FOIA request:
'''
Reports, analysis, advisories, investigative materials and other
responsive documents associated with the attack on PG&E Corporation's
Metcalf Transmission Substation located outside of San Jose,
California on April 16, 2013. Please include guidance issued to other
critical power distribution operators as result of this incident.
Please include processing notes for this request, even if denied in
part. Thank you!
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/parastoowho-21164/


now to find out who that first request was from... :P



best regards,
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan  8 20:51:23 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 20:51:23 -0800
Subject: Cicada 3301: 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_D50J9KD_Dkua9B04RLtVXAWWZE8Vqbt3Y4NDin0ijUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_D50J9KD_Dkua9B04RLtVXAWWZE8Vqbt3Y4NDin0ijUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569091CB.2020405@riseup.net>

grarpamp wrote:
> https://twitter.com/1231507051321/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
> http://uncovering-cicada.wikia.com/
>
From their timeline

https://twitter.com/1231507051321/status/625902337266204673

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

    
Some news organisations have recently claimed that "3301" is
tied to the illegal activities of a group that has claimed
responsibility for attacks against Planned Parenthood.
  
We do not engage in illegal activities.  We are not associated
with this group in any way, nor do condone their use of our
name, number, or symbolism.
 
3301
    
      
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

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zrPAdjLJK5VXYaI/bVD+qZXTMpa4VbETTUDPgpAKvW6aYzuLld4t4v3EbHlDfNyT
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=77uq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
http://pastebin.com/smRatr3D

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 22:38:42 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 22:38:42 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>

first FOIA of the New Year!
'''
To Whom It May Concern:

This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act. I hereby
request the following records:

Records associated with the suppression, coordination, or appraisal
via third parties of vulnerabilities in Dual_EC and ANSI X9.31 in
ScreenOS or Juniper OS, developed by Juniper Corporation in
California, and reported to the Bureau as part of the Vulnerabilities
Equities Process, or as part of National Security investigations
facilitated by the Data Intercept Technology Unit within the Bureau
(DITU). Passive decrypt enabling of Juniper ScreenOS may also be
referred to as "VPN Decryption (CVE-2015-7756) in ScreenOS 6.2.0r15
through 6.2.0r18 and 6.3.0r12 through 6.3.0r20". Time frame of
responsive records search is during or after 2005, and before 2016.
Specific identifying terms for search include changed values for X
coordinates for Dual EC curve point Q of:
9585320EEAF81044F20D55030A035B11BECE81C785E6C933E4A8A131F6578107,
2c55e5e45edf713dc43475effe8813a60326a64d9ba3d2e39cb639b0f3b0ad10, or
c97445f45cdef9f0d3e05e1e585fc297235b82b5be8ff3efca67c59852018192. Note
that proper matching of these cryptographic curve point values may
require marshaling to a packed binary representation. A search of
primary record repositories as well as cross-references to these data
stores is explicitly requested. Cross reference search is demanded for
proper scope of responsive materials. Please include timeline for
initial discovery with source of discovery, first operational use, and
finally, date for vendor notification, if applicable. Please provide
emails, memorandums of understanding, agreements, or legal orders
directed to Juniper Corporation relevant to this request, if
applicable. Please also review records associated with activities
authorized by Executive Order 12,333, or Section 215 of the Patriot
Act, or Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
Amendments Act (FAA), or any other applicable authority while
processing this request. Records related to coordination with partner
agencies, including NSA, and especially programs including MARINA,
TRAFFICTHIEF, PINWHALE, BULLRUN, AMBULANT, APERIODIC, AUNTIE, ABEYANT,
DICHOTOMY, DILEMMA, FIRSTDOWN, FORBIDDEN, FORBORNE, PAWLEYS, TAREX,
PENDLETON, PAINTEDEAGLE, PAWNSHOP, PERKYAUTUMN, PICAROON, PICARESQUE,
PIEDMONT, PITCHFORD, PLACEBO, POMPANO, or PRESSURETWIN for explicit
search of responsive materials. Note that some of these ECI Coverterms
may be germane to NSA or CIA elements only; explicit resolution into
current terms, if necessary, is requested. See
https://robert.sesek.com/2014/9/unraveling_nsa_s_turbulence_programs.html
for additional context regarding bulk decryption activities relevant
to records sought in this request. Thank you!
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/prunedkipperos-23339/

:P


best regards,




From dan at geer.org  Fri Jan  8 19:43:15 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 22:43:15 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:05:13 +0100."
 <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>

Tracerneo writes:
 | On 7 January 2016 at 05:51, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
 | >online privacy
 | >encryption scheme
 | >backdoor that allows anyone..to have their anonymity and privacy stripped
 |  altogether
 | 
 | I don't know, maybe I'm retarded, but this doesn't compute.
 | 
 | What I'm afraid though, is that such abominations might catch on,
 | because people like adopting flawed things, that give them illusion of
 | control.

With respect, the stripping involved requires unanimity amongst the
nine sites, each much different than the other.  If one is to dismiss
Chaum's scheme due to the possibility of 9-way unanimous collusion,
then, in like manner, all threshold (split-key) cryptosystems are
unacceptable.  And then there is the DNS where the possibility of
collusion amongst all root servers would also trigger disavowal of
the DNS.

I'm probably missing your point.

--dan




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  8 20:29:09 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 23:29:09 -0500
Subject: Cicada 3301: 2016
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_D50J9KD_Dkua9B04RLtVXAWWZE8Vqbt3Y4NDin0ijUg@mail.gmail.com>

https://twitter.com/1231507051321/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
http://uncovering-cicada.wikia.com/




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan  9 07:33:18 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 07:33:18 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5691283E.6040900@riseup.net>

> 9585320EEAF81044F20D55030A035B11BECE81C785E6C933E4A8A131F6578107,
> 2c55e5e45edf713dc43475effe8813a60326a64d9ba3d2e39cb639b0f3b0ad10, or
> c97445f45cdef9f0d3e05e1e585fc297235b82b5be8ff3efca67c59852018192
but not

> 9585320EEAF81044F20D55030A035B11BECE81C785E6C933E4A8A131F6578109,
> 2c55e5e45edf713dc43475effe8813a60326a64d9ba3d2e39cb639b0f3b0ac10, or
> c97445f45cdef9f0d3e05e1e585fc297235b82b5be8ff3efca67c59852017192
...

.......

Giving away state secrets in FOIA requests... They HAVE a 'jacket' with
yo' name on it...

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."



coderman wrote:
> first FOIA of the New Year!
> '''
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act. I hereby
> request the following records:
>
> Records associated with the suppression, coordination, or appraisal
> via third parties of vulnerabilities in Dual_EC and ANSI X9.31 in
> ScreenOS or Juniper OS, developed by Juniper Corporation in
> California, and reported to the Bureau as part of the Vulnerabilities
> Equities Process, or as part of National Security investigations
> facilitated by the Data Intercept Technology Unit within the Bureau
> (DITU). Passive decrypt enabling of Juniper ScreenOS may also be
> referred to as "VPN Decryption (CVE-2015-7756) in ScreenOS 6.2.0r15
> through 6.2.0r18 and 6.3.0r12 through 6.3.0r20". Time frame of
> responsive records search is during or after 2005, and before 2016.
> Specific identifying terms for search include changed values for X
> coordinates for Dual EC curve point Q of:
> 9585320EEAF81044F20D55030A035B11BECE81C785E6C933E4A8A131F6578107,
> 2c55e5e45edf713dc43475effe8813a60326a64d9ba3d2e39cb639b0f3b0ad10, or
> c97445f45cdef9f0d3e05e1e585fc297235b82b5be8ff3efca67c59852018192. Note
> that proper matching of these cryptographic curve point values may
> require marshaling to a packed binary representation. A search of
> primary record repositories as well as cross-references to these data
> stores is explicitly requested. Cross reference search is demanded for
> proper scope of responsive materials. Please include timeline for
> initial discovery with source of discovery, first operational use, and
> finally, date for vendor notification, if applicable. Please provide
> emails, memorandums of understanding, agreements, or legal orders
> directed to Juniper Corporation relevant to this request, if
> applicable. Please also review records associated with activities
> authorized by Executive Order 12,333, or Section 215 of the Patriot
> Act, or Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
> Amendments Act (FAA), or any other applicable authority while
> processing this request. Records related to coordination with partner
> agencies, including NSA, and especially programs including MARINA,
> TRAFFICTHIEF, PINWHALE, BULLRUN, AMBULANT, APERIODIC, AUNTIE, ABEYANT,
> DICHOTOMY, DILEMMA, FIRSTDOWN, FORBIDDEN, FORBORNE, PAWLEYS, TAREX,
> PENDLETON, PAINTEDEAGLE, PAWNSHOP, PERKYAUTUMN, PICAROON, PICARESQUE,
> PIEDMONT, PITCHFORD, PLACEBO, POMPANO, or PRESSURETWIN for explicit
> search of responsive materials. Note that some of these ECI Coverterms
> may be germane to NSA or CIA elements only; explicit resolution into
> current terms, if necessary, is requested. See
> https://robert.sesek.com/2014/9/unraveling_nsa_s_turbulence_programs.html
> for additional context regarding bulk decryption activities relevant
> to records sought in this request. Thank you!
> '''
>  - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/prunedkipperos-23339/
>
> :P
>
>
> best regards,
>


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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sat Jan  9 08:30:56 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 08:30:56 -0800
Subject: [cryptome] Re: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160109163039.F3EC2680102@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On January 8, 2016 10:39:08 PM coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> first FOIA of the New Year!

Thank you for continuing to seek the truth despite their shitty attempts to 
dissuade you!  This is an especially good one.

> MARINA,
> TRAFFICTHIEF, PINWHALE, BULLRUN, AMBULANT, APERIODIC, AUNTIE, ABEYANT,
> DICHOTOMY, DILEMMA, FIRSTDOWN, FORBIDDEN, FORBORNE, PAWLEYS, TAREX,
> PENDLETON, PAINTEDEAGLE, PAWNSHOP, PERKYAUTUMN, PICAROON, PICARESQUE,
> PIEDMONT, PITCHFORD, PLACEBO, POMPANO, or PRESSURETWIN

I feel like I'm looking at paint chip colors in Kafka's Home Despot :p

-S





From tbiehn at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 07:58:46 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:58:46 +0000
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>

Dan,
The 9 servers are operated by Chaum, and is the software and OS config open
source and 3rd party verifiable as being the same as running on the servers?

9 servers will be operated in 9 different jurisdictions, not by 9 separate
unrelated 'entities'.

'Trust us' is just something we've become accustomed to not needing.

Travis

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016, 11:48 PM  <dan at geer.org> wrote:

> Tracerneo writes:
>  | On 7 January 2016 at 05:51, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>  | >online privacy
>  | >encryption scheme
>  | >backdoor that allows anyone..to have their anonymity and privacy
> stripped
>  |  altogether
>  |
>  | I don't know, maybe I'm retarded, but this doesn't compute.
>  |
>  | What I'm afraid though, is that such abominations might catch on,
>  | because people like adopting flawed things, that give them illusion of
>  | control.
>
> With respect, the stripping involved requires unanimity amongst the
> nine sites, each much different than the other.  If one is to dismiss
> Chaum's scheme due to the possibility of 9-way unanimous collusion,
> then, in like manner, all threshold (split-key) cryptosystems are
> unacceptable.  And then there is the DNS where the possibility of
> collusion amongst all root servers would also trigger disavowal of
> the DNS.
>
> I'm probably missing your point.
>
> --dan
>
>
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 21:03:50 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:03:50 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>

ramping up FOIA in the year new, a new favorite!

'''
Records associated with the investigation of leaked sensitive US
intelligence products identified in email communication between
Hillary Clinton and Sid Blumenthal - email account name "sbwhoeop", on
June 8th, 2011. The previously sensitive information subject to this
request involves the clandestine planning within Sudan’s government to
seize control of oil assets in Abyei. Records within the
Counterintelligence Unit of the Operations Section within the National
Security Division's (NSD) Office of Intelligence at the Department are
specifically requested, including cross-references or related training
materials, procedures, or guidelines used during evaluation of the
incident described. Records involving joint activities with other
agencies, including the National Security Agency (NSA) or the Central
Intelligence Agency (CIA), are specifically requested, considering the
role of the Counterintelligence Unit in excluding intelligence
partners, foreign and domestic, from suspicion during course of
investigation. Origin of sensitive material is presumed to be an
exceptionally controlled program involving sensitive HUMINT and SIGINT
resources in the country of Sundan or providing communications
services to them. Obscuring information identifying the origin of
intelligence is appropriate; this request does not seek such
information. However, a search within record stores requiring special
access controls is expected. Please be considerate in recognizing that
while the operations and results of Counterintelligence Unit
activities may be exempt from disclosure, the existence of documents
may not be. Nor may procedures and policies of wider public interest
related to the context of this request be denied by Glomar without
sufficient basis. Note also the passage in time since the event
occurred, further diminished any claims of continuing sensitivity.
Last but not least, please keep in mind the spirit and letter of the
Law called Freedom of Information Act while servicing this request.
Thank you! Your professional time and prompt efforts are appreciated.
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/littlebird-23349/

a title could be, "Who's spilling secrets to Sid?"
 :)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 21:09:42 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:09:42 -0800
Subject: [cryptome] Re: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <20160109163039.F3EC2680102@frontend2.nyi.internal>
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 <20160109163039.F3EC2680102@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Sg3G+vPnCLi0jn8uP0XLV42AnYZuAj15OE79e_zZKf_A@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/16, Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> ...
> Thank you for continuing to seek the truth despite their shitty attempts to
> dissuade you!

one day they'll figure out this only steels my resolve  ;)



> This is an especially good one.

after a year of practice, i am only beginning to feel not-incompetent
at formulating useful requests. deceptively difficult; akin to reverse
engineering, perhaps...

FOIA suggestions welcome!


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 21:54:55 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:54:55 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/9/16, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ... https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/littlebird-23349/
>
> a title could be, "Who's spilling secrets to Sid?"


note, the answer may be "no one"! :)

regarding my earlier comment about reverse engineering, sometimes
you're looking to prove a negative with a request - the "metadata" or
side channels associated with processing the request sufficient to
provide an answer, even if the content itself is all "[REDACTED]".


see also:
'''
What Sidney Blumenthal’s Memos to Hillary Clinton Said, and How They
Were Handled

By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTMAY 18, 2015

In 2011 and 2012, Hillary Rodham Clinton received at least 25 memos
about Libya from Sidney Blumenthal, a friend and confidant who at the
time was employed by the Clinton Foundation. The memos, written in the
style of intelligence cables, make up about a third of the almost 900
pages of emails related to Libya that Mrs. Clinton said she kept on
the personal email account she used exclusively as secretary of state.
Some of Mr. Blumenthal’s memos appeared to be based on reports
supplied by American contractors he was advising as they sought to do
business in Libya. Mr. Blumenthal also appeared to be gathering
information from anonymous Libyan and Western officials and local news
media reports. What follows are descriptions of some of the memos and
how they were handled by Mrs. Clinton and her aides.

Clinton Says Idea on Rebels Should Be Considered

In April 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo about the rebel
forces fighting the regime of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. The rebels, Mr.
Blumenthal wrote, were considering hiring security contractors to
train their forces. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to her aide, Jake
Sullivan, and said that the idea should be considered. (Pages 1-3)

Clinton Friend’s Libya Role Blurs Lines of Politics and Business

Sidney Blumenthal counseled Hillary Rodham Clinton when she was
secretary of state about Libya, where he was also advising a business
venture.

In 2011 and 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded 18 memos to Mr. Sullivan, who
in turn circulated them to senior State Department officials,
including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, who was killed in the
2012 attacks in Benghazi, and Ambassador Gene A. Cretz, who preceded
him.

=An Alert to Possible Terrorist Attacks in Libya
In May 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo reporting that
affiliates of Al Qaeda in Libya were plotting attacks in revenge for
the United States’ killing of Osama bin Laden. Mrs. Clinton forwarded
the email to Mr. Sullivan, saying that it was “disturbing, if true.”
Mr. Sullivan questioned its accuracy, but said he would share with
others. (Pages 4-5)

=Highlighting the Role of a Potential Business Partner
In January 2012, Mr. Blumenthal wrote to Mrs. Clinton about challenges
facing Libya’s new government. In the memo, Mr. Blumenthal said that
Libya’s prime minister was bringing in new economic advisers, and that
a businessman, Najib Obeida, was among “the most influential of this
group.” At the time, Mr. Obeida was a potential business partner for a
group of contractors whom Mr. Blumenthal was advising. Mrs. Clinton
instructed Mr. Sullivan to ask for a response from senior State
Department officials including Mr. Cretz, then the ambassador to
Libya. (Pages 6-15)

=A Memo Is Passed On, Despite Questions
In March 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded a memo by Mr. Blumenthal to Mr.
Sullivan, saying that she was dubious about its content. Mr. Sullivan
agreed, stating that Mr. Blumenthal’s report resembled “a conspiracy
theory” — but still asked State Department officials to review it.
(Pages 16-17)

=A Warning Is Forwarded to Incoming Ambassador
In April 2012, Mr. Blumenthal wrote to Mrs. Clinton warning about the
imminent rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Libya. Mrs. Clinton
forwarded the memo to Mr. Sullivan, who sent it to Mr. Stevens, the
incoming United States ambassador to Libya. Mr. Stevens’ response —
that the Brotherhood in fact had a relatively small following in Libya
— was passed on to Mrs. Clinton. (Pages 18-24)

=Clinton Suggests Sharing Information With Israel
After receiving an August 2012 memo from Mr. Blumenthal about how the
new Libyan prime minister wanted to have a better relationship with
Israel, Mrs. Clinton suggested to Mr. Sullivan that they pass the
intelligence along to the Israelis. (Pages 25-27)
'''
- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us/politics/what-sidney-blumenthals-memos-to-hillary-clinton-said-and-how-they-were-handled.html?_r=0


best regards,




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan  9 21:56:04 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:56:04 -0800
Subject: Cicada 3301: 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_9eUsbe1cqqq6ivZPcx3RasWjbD8_EUMKTvU4sZVYSbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_9eUsbe1cqqq6ivZPcx3RasWjbD8_EUMKTvU4sZVYSbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5691F274.3050704@riseup.net>

grarpamp wrote:
> https://twitter.com/1231507051321/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
> http://uncovering-cicada.wikia.com/
>
>> "Please give people some indication as to what these links are about.
>> Edit this and resubmit and I'll send it thru. Thanks."
> Due to retarded policy, you apparently need the following handholding...
> THESE LINKS ARE ABOUT CRYPTO PUZZLES.
> DO NOT CLICK THESE LINKS UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT AND SOLVE CRYPTO PUZZLES.
> MODERN INTERNET ACCESS IS REQUIRED.
> THESE LINKS MAY GIVE YOU EPILEPTIC SEIZURES.
> THEY MAY INFECT YOUR COMPUTER.
> THEY MAY BE PART OF CONSPIRACIES, NEW WORLD ORDER, GOVERNMENT PSY OPS,
> ALIEN X FILES, FINCRIME, MAFIOSO, TERRORISM, CHILD PORN AND DRUGS.
> THEY MAY STEAL ALL YOUR BITCOIN.
> THEY MAY LEAD YOU TO THE DARK SIDE VIA THE DEEP WEB.
> THEY MAY ENCRYPT ALL YOUR FILES.
> 21=DS9-S3JDSj*sd2%31TY/0kn+bs;o MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE KEY.
> THEY MAY CHANGE YOUR RELIGION.
> SOMEONE MAY ASK YOU FOR THE PASSWORD TO YOUR LUGGAGE.
> IF YOU ARE PRONE TO ADDICTION, DO NOT PLAY.
> ZUMBA NFERU IS NOT A NIGERIAN PRINCE AND DOES NOT HAVE $21M FOR YOU.
> DO NOT CLICK THEM IF YOU'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO CLICK THEM.
> OR TO READ.
> OR TO LEARN.
> OR TO EXPLORE ANYTHING ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT BEING BABIED BY YOUR MOMMA.
> CHEERIO.
>

Siriusly... The mod at cryptography metzdowd com didn't know Cicada 3301
might take the whole dang list down the rabbit hole with it?

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan  9 21:27:19 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 00:27:19 -0500
Subject: Cicada 3301: 2016
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_9eUsbe1cqqq6ivZPcx3RasWjbD8_EUMKTvU4sZVYSbw@mail.gmail.com>

https://twitter.com/1231507051321/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
http://uncovering-cicada.wikia.com/

> "Please give people some indication as to what these links are about.
> Edit this and resubmit and I'll send it thru. Thanks."

Due to retarded policy, you apparently need the following handholding...
THESE LINKS ARE ABOUT CRYPTO PUZZLES.
DO NOT CLICK THESE LINKS UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT AND SOLVE CRYPTO PUZZLES.
MODERN INTERNET ACCESS IS REQUIRED.
THESE LINKS MAY GIVE YOU EPILEPTIC SEIZURES.
THEY MAY INFECT YOUR COMPUTER.
THEY MAY BE PART OF CONSPIRACIES, NEW WORLD ORDER, GOVERNMENT PSY OPS,
ALIEN X FILES, FINCRIME, MAFIOSO, TERRORISM, CHILD PORN AND DRUGS.
THEY MAY STEAL ALL YOUR BITCOIN.
THEY MAY LEAD YOU TO THE DARK SIDE VIA THE DEEP WEB.
THEY MAY ENCRYPT ALL YOUR FILES.
21=DS9-S3JDSj*sd2%31TY/0kn+bs;o MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE KEY.
THEY MAY CHANGE YOUR RELIGION.
SOMEONE MAY ASK YOU FOR THE PASSWORD TO YOUR LUGGAGE.
IF YOU ARE PRONE TO ADDICTION, DO NOT PLAY.
ZUMBA NFERU IS NOT A NIGERIAN PRINCE AND DOES NOT HAVE $21M FOR YOU.
DO NOT CLICK THEM IF YOU'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO CLICK THEM.
OR TO READ.
OR TO LEARN.
OR TO EXPLORE ANYTHING ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT BEING BABIED BY YOUR MOMMA.
CHEERIO.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 04:50:35 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 04:50:35 -0800
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic Freedom
 Foundation selective in support of freedom]
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/16, Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
> ... I've found myself self-censoring quite a lot more
> since my kids were born.


this topic has been on my mind recently,

"You know, It would be a lot easier you just didn't do X"
"This wouldn't happen if you quit annoying Y"
"If you accept, Z will pay nicely and protect you."

where X is FOIA requests, security research, PET development, etc.,
 Y is some powerful entity like FBI, NSA, Verizon, Intel, etc.,
  and Z is some convenient but forever bound by position requiring a
clearance and suspension of moral qualms.

when you've got the world to loose (nothing more encompassing than
your own family!) preservation is near irresistible.  simple fear of
harm might be compelling enough for the majority to cower compliant,
even.

---

when i was young, these questions of "do i do right? or do i stay
safe?" were abstract and applicable only to foreign backwaters or past
history. a modern, free liberal democracy need never exercise such
restraint - we have Blind Justice which always finds in favor of the
righteous!

over some years i lost this innocent faith in perfect justice, saw
abuses of power against the less fortunate or less familiar, accrued
things dear to me like friends and new family, and became comfortable
in a lifestyle with all needs met.
.
.
.
now USA in a state of perpetual war, executive power at record levels,
surveillance staggering in breadth and invasiveness, censorship and
suppression of speech creeping ever further into the centralized
systems dominating over our way of life, it's not good...
 and yet we're not rounding up foreign-born citizens and their
families for incarceration at detention camps (like Japanese during
the war).  not to mention that much of the rest of the world would be
killed or imprisoned leading my kind of  life in another jurisdiction!

when people are being killed for exposing corruption or injustice, it
seems ridiculous to complain about annoyances resulting from optional
activities i have chosen to undertake willingly - not out of dire need
or coercion.  with all my needs still met.

---

all of which made me wonder, what did the every day German or Italian
citizen see before fascism ravaged sanity? what did they see that felt
disturbing, but not overtly threating and could be ignored? what did
they see which told them all legitimacy was lost and only resistance
remained?

the #YallQueda rebellion staged their last stand in my state, with
land use abuse the straw upon their broken backs. perhaps loss of
livelihood a better Rubicon?

---

then another "If you quit doing that, it would all be much easier..." was said,
and i wondered if this was the key sign of trouble i was fearing to
see. when lawful activities performed for the good of the public draw
unjustified scrutiny and disruption from the state, has the state
itself become corrupt?

how far must this corruption spread before it cannot be stopped
without destruction of the state, no matter the size and vehemency of
public protest?

can the tools of technology and manufactured consent provide the state
ability to become completely corrupted without detection, nor
resistance from the public?

---

i don't know the answers, and i am curious to hear opinions.

i still live a rich life with needs met and i don't think we're on the
brink of a fascist nightmare future. maybe hell on earth is closer
than i think...

thoughts?



best regards,


NOTE: i am using the terms fascist and fascism explicitly, not capriciously.
'''
Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to
prominence in early 20th-century Europe...

Fascists saw World War I as a revolution that brought massive changes
in the nature of war, society, the state, and technology. The advent
of total war and total mass mobilization of society had broken down
the distinction between civilian and combatant. A "military
citizenship" arose in which all citizens were involved with the
military in some manner during the war. The war had resulted in the
rise of a powerful state capable of mobilizing millions of people to
serve on the front lines and providing economic production and
logistics to support them, as well as having unprecedented authority
to intervene in the lives of citizens. Fascists view World War I as
having made liberal democracy obsolete, and regard total mobilization
of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to
prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to
economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader — such
as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the
governing fascist party — to forge national unity and maintain a
stable and orderly society. Fascism rejects assertions that violence
is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence,
war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.
'''
 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 11:36:43 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:36:43 -0800
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> now USA in a state of perpetual war,
>
> 	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking about.

Juan, let me return your incredulity with clarity,

i know i'm old, but that also means i remember a time we were not
actually at war (except drug war! in hindsight, that counts as war
well enough...)



> 	dude the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
> 	What the fuck are you talking about.

incarceration rate alone doesn't tell the tale. part of this problem
is a "success" in prosecution and consistent(sorta) sentencing.

speaking of ending endless wars, drug sentences will reduce this a
fair amount, but significant reduction will require significant
reduction in sentences...

which is ok, as anything beyond 5 years is just punative;isolationary
- not rehabilitation.



> 	DUDE! Are you trelling or what??

Narcos a local example of serious threat, vs. annoyance.

""
 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/censor-or-die-the-death-of-mexican-news-in-the-age-of-drug-cartels/2015/12/09/23acf3ae-8a26-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html



>> when people are being killed for exposing corruption or injustice,
> 	
> 	speechless

i don't fear accidentally eating polonium, ever, for example. ;)



>> all of which made me wonder, what did the every day German or Italian
>> citizen see before fascism ravaged sanity? what did they see that felt
>
> 	they laughably thought, exactly like you, that  they were
> 	morally superior to the rest of the world.

is this where you advocate direct action to inhibit the machine?
 with unlicensed molotovs and conspiracy to congregate?
  ;)


in seriousness, a detailed and accurate picture of this experience
would be interesting to read.

there are historical references from this period, of dry edification,
but actual accounts from this perspective hard to come by, presumably
because the minds behind them were extinguished...

key aspects which stuck out:
- economic malaise, squeezed lower class.
- theology in service of power, rather than separate.
- business and government collusion in war making.
- nationalism coupled to racism. then ultra-nationalism to mass murder purges.
- willing populace mistaking blunder for boldness, polemics for
persuasion, and ever more cowed into total subservience...



> 	has become corrupt? How much to you get paid to troll this
> 	list?

the "justice system" is not total farce; completely devoid of all
credibility. extra-judicial summary killings are not common place.
secrets laws don't ^H^H^H ... ok, part of it quite fucked.

but beyond redemption? this is what i intend by "completely corrupt" -
unable to dispense justice; only deceit on the scales.



> 	No it's acutally propagandists like you who are to blame.

propaganda! skillful use of this another key factor for thriving
facism. i meant to add that to the list above...

though perhaps it is your feign of forceful repudiation which is the
facade?  i enjoy your consistent and copious criticism Juan. one day i
hope to enjoy your suggestions, too :)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 11:39:30 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:39:30 -0800
Subject: Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug cartels
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/censor-or-die-the-death-of-mexican-news-in-the-age-of-drug-cartels/2015/12/09/23acf3ae-8a26-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html


Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug cartels
By Dana Priest December 11, 2015

CONTROLLING THE STORY: This is the fifth installment in an ongoing
series examining the human cost of reporting the news around the
world.

One journalist's experience on Mexico's deadliest beat

REYNOSA, Mexico — As deadline descended on El Mañana’s newsroom and
reporters rushed to file their stories, someone in the employ of a
local drug cartel called with a demand from his crime boss.

The caller was a journalist for another newspaper, known here as an
enlace, or “link” to the cartel. The compromised journalist barked out
the order: Publish an article saying the mayor in Matamoros had not
paid the cartel $2 million a month in protection fees, as an El Mañana
front-page story had alleged the day before.

“They want us to say he’s not guilty,” the editor who took the call
told his colleagues during the episode in late October. Knowing
glances passed between them as a visiting Washington Post reporter
looked on.

They all knew that defiance carried a high price.

The enlaces are part of the deeply institutionalized system of cartel
censorship imposed on media outlets in northeastern Mexico abutting
the border of Texas. How it works is an open secret in newsrooms here
but not among readers. They are unaware of the life-and-death
decisions editors make every day not to anger different local cartel
commanders, each of whom has his own media philosophy.

Submitting to cartel demands is the only way to survive, said
Hildebrando “Brando” Deandar Ayala, 39, editor in chief of El Mañana,
one of the oldest and largest newspapers in the region with a print
circulation of 30,000. “You do it or you die, and nobody wants to
die,” he said. “Auto censura — self-censorship — that’s our shield.”

Readers get angry when they don’t get the news they need, he said.
Resentment against El Mañana grew so strong two years ago that
reporters took the logos off their cars and stopped carrying their
identification on assignments.

“The readers hate us sometimes,” Deandar said. “But they don’t know
the real risks we go through.”

Mexico has long been a deadly place for reporters. Some 88 journalists
have been slain in the last two decades, according to Article 19, a
worldwide advocacy group that promotes press freedom.

With its endless drug wars, Mexico is one of the most dangerous places
in a world that has seen a recent upswing in violence against
journalists, with scores of reporters killed or jailed in Afghanistan,
Pakistan, the Arab Spring countries, Central America and the former
Soviet bloc.

[Read previous stories from this series]

The risks have been especially high for El Mañana because its
circulation area is bounded to the west by the birthplace of the Zetas
criminal network in Nuevo Laredo and to the east by the Gulf crime
syndicate’s home base in Matamoros.

In February, the last time El Mañana defied a cartel’s censorship
rules, an editor in its Matamoros bureau was dragged outside, stuffed
in a van and beaten as his abductors drove around threatening him with
death.

“Next time, we’ll kill you!” one yelled before pushing him out of the vehicle.

Four El Mañana journalists have been killed in the past 10 years.
Others survived assassination attempts, kidnappings, and grenade and
machine-gun attacks on their offices. Deandar has been shot, kidnapped
and had his home set on fire, he said.

Hildebrando “Brando” Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana,
center, checks in with different departments at the newspaper’s office
in Reynosa, Mexico, on Oct. 29. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)

The worst assaults began in 2004, when an editor in Nuevo Laredo was
stabbed to death. Two years later, gunmen broke into the bureau there,
detonated a grenade and sprayed machine gunfire, leaving one employee
paralyzed.

Afterward, bulletproof glass and electronic security keys were
installed at its three offices, where the blinds are always drawn.

In March 2010, when the Gulf cartel defeated the Zetas for control of
Reynosa, it took revenge on three El Mañana reporters whom the Zetas
had forced to watch one of its mass executions.

The cartel called the three Reynosa reporters and told them, “ ‘either
you come in or we’ll pick you up,’ ” an editor there at the time
recalled.

They surrendered to the cartel and were never heard from again. Their
presumed slayings were never reported by El Mañana, editors said,
because that’s what the Gulf commander demanded. The enlace passed
word that the killings were a one-time message to the Zetas, not a
tactic the cartel intended to repeat against the newspaper.

Twice in 2012, gunmen from the Zetas shot up the offices of the Nuevo
Laredo bureau. Not long after, El Mañana announced it would no longer
print cartel news in its Nuevo Laredo edition. Articles about Nuevo
Laredo crime sometimes appear in other editions, but without a byline
or names in the story.

Five of nine bodies are shown hanging from a bridge in the Mexican
border city of Nuevo Laredo, in Tamaulipas state, in the early morning
of May 4, 2012. The bodies showed signs of beating and torture. (Raul
Llamas/Agence France-Presse via Getty Images)
North America’s ISIS

The cartels’ tactics resemble those most Americans would associate
with al-Qaeda and the Islamic State. The display of multiple beheaded
corpses and bodies hanging from bridges are a regular occurrence.
Hundreds of young people have disappeared. Mass graves are
commonplace.

The comparison with terrorist groups 7,300 miles away frustrates
journalists here. They watch the endless international coverage of
Middle East violence yet know that the terrorism just across the U.S.
border is largely ignored by the American media.

Mexico’s 2014 murder rate of 13 per 100,000 is twice as high as Afghanistan’s.

“We have a war here, and we’re doing war reporting,” said Ildefonso
“Poncho” Ortiz, a deeply sourced reporter for Breitbart News Network’s
Cartel Chronicles, one of the only American outlets to track cartel
maneuvers. “Sometimes AP [the Associated Press wire service] will pick
up a story, but other than that, it never leaves the valley.”

The three largest U.S. newspapers nearby — the Brownsville Herald, the
Monitor in McAllen, Tex., and the Laredo Morning Times — forbid their
reporters from crossing to report because it’s too dangerous,
according to the editors at the newspapers.

Pervasive corruption abets the violence. The local police forces have
been disbanded and replaced by the army and federal police in the
northern Mexican state of Tamaulipas, which includes Matamoros, Nuevo
Laredo and Reynosa.

A car bomb killed the Nuevo Laredo mayor one week after he was sworn
in. The new Matamoros mayor survived an ambush in March. Cartels
install surveillance cameras throughout their cities and employ
lookouts with cellphones to keep watch. U.S. Border Patrol officers
are regularly indicted for cooperating with organized crime.

“Tamaulipas is a black hole when it comes to information,” said Aaron
Nelsen, a reporter based in McAllen for the San Antonio Express-News.
“It’s so hard to get anyone to talk about it,” even elected U.S.
officials.
Hildebrando Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana, sits in the
newspaper’s office in McAllen, Tex., in October. (Jabin Botsford/The
Washington Post)
Ildefonso “Poncho” Ortiz, a reporter with Breitbart News Network,
lives in the United States but regularly reports on cartel activities
along the Mexico border. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
A cartel media director

El Mañana’s circulation area includes major U.S. border cities; its
online editions are read as far north as San Antonio and Houston.

It is a third-generation family enterprise, founded in 1924 as an
anti-establishment voice. Over most of its 91 years, its formidable
enemies were corrupt politicians and their hand-picked prosecutors.

The newspaper now maintains a working relationship with the local
governments, as evidenced by the government advertising it receives.
Withholding state advertising dollars is a common and effective
economic hammer used against media outlets whose investigations upset
the status quo.

“When it’s not the politicians against us, it’s the drug dealers,”
said Heriberto Deandar, 78, who co-owns El Mañana with his brother,
Brando’s father. “He who is not afraid has no courage.”

Brando was raised in Reynosa but moved to McAllen in 2007 for safety
reasons. He commutes to work. Asked why he doesn’t find a safer job,
he said simply, “It’s in my blood. I cannot leave.”

During a recent visit to the town, the eerie atmosphere was inescapable.

Reynosa’s wide boulevards were nearly empty. Heavily armed soldiers
patrolled in black masks to protect their identities from cartels
resentful of the army’s two-year occupation.

Military helicopters whooped periodically overhead, racing to
shootouts or hunting suspects. At dusk, hundreds of cars streamed
slowly across the international bridge to McAllen, where an increasing
number of well-to-do Mexicans have moved their families to safety.

The Metros faction of the Gulf cartel controls much of civic life and
all contraband — drugs, sex slaves, immigrant smuggling, fuel, stolen
vehicles — in or moving through Reynosa, said journalists and media
experts here. Its commander, whose parents are from Reynosa, has a
more liberal view of the media than his counterparts in the other two
cities.

He seems to care about his image, too, they said, as evidenced by the
“narcobanners” that appeared on city bridges in November.

“This is to make it clear that I am a narcotrafficker, not a terrorist
like you’ve been saying in the media,” the cartel boss declared in one
handwritten sheet-sized banner. “Investigate and check your facts.
Crime has lessened since I took charge.”

In Matamoros, though, the commander of the cartel’s Ciclones faction
tolerates no coverage. In Nuevo Laredo, the Zetas have a commander of
finance, assassinations, logistics, stolen vehicles and fuel, weapons,
prostitution, immigrant smuggling — and media.

The Zetas media director, a clean-cut, 30-something man described by
one person who knows him as “a pretty friendly guy,” calls enlaces and
beat reporters at El Mañana and other media outlets every day to tell
them what stories the cartel wants published or censored. One day it’s
a story critical of new government limits on imported cars; the next
it’s a birthday party in the social pages featuring a cartel boss’s
daughter. Sometimes the media director provides photos and video for
an article.

“It’s a common conversation every day,” one reporter said.

Reporters have learned to consult him on nearly everything, one media
expert said. Even a car crash isn’t a simple car crash. “You have to
call somebody to make sure you can write about it,” one journalist
said, because it might actually not be an accident but a purposeful
vehicular homicide organized by the cartel.

Critical coverage of local politicians is also forbidden.

For his own security, the media director changes cellphones often, but
his online avatar always stays the same: a rabbit.

The three cartel commanders’ differing media philosophies force El
Mañana to produce three distinctly different editions. “If you want to
find out what’s happening in Nuevo Laredo or Matamoros, you read El
Mañana de Reynosa,” Deandar said.

For example, when Mexican troops captured the leader of the Matamoros
faction in October, known as “Ciclón 7,” El Mañana did not print a
word about it in its Matamoros edition. But in Reynosa and Nuevo
Laredo, it was banner news.

With Ciclón 7 gone, Deandar said, “we are waiting to see who is the
next chief, so we’ll know the rules.”

Hildebrando Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana, right, and
Enrique Juarez, his Matamoros editor who was kidnapped by the cartel
in February because the paper defied its news blackout, discuss
coverage in Deandar’s office. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
Mechanics of self-censorship

After hearing the enlace’s demand to exonerate the allegedly corrupt
mayor in Matamoros, the editor on duty rubbed his head trying to
contain himself.

“First they tell us what not to publish, now they are telling us what
to publish!” he yelled before heading upstairs to his office.

He dialed the editor in Matamoros who had passed the enlace’s message
to Reynosa, put the phone on speaker mode and upped the volume so the
whole room could hear.

Enlaces pass instructions via phone calls, text messages, apps and in
personal meetings. They often communicate cartel demands to crime
reporters who show up at the scene of shootouts, blockades, car bombs
and executions.

Sometimes a cartel member will run into crime reporters at the scene.

“They’ll say, ‘Get the hell out of here! We’ll kill you!’ And we have
to go,” one reporter said.

Three minutes into the conversation with the Matamoros editor, the
senior editor began raising his voice about the enlace.

“Give me his name and number!” he shouted. “And tell him you’re not
going to take any more messages! No more! Tell him if you take any
more messages, I’m going to fire you!”

He hung up, waved around the piece of paper with the enlace’s name and
phone number on it and then stood up. It was getting dark. Time to
leave for a safer city.

The front-page story that upset the cartel was a reprinted interview
with the new mayor of Matamoros, Leticia Salazar, an anti-corruption
crusader. The interview was conducted by the national Excelsior
newspaper. In it, she accused her predecessor of paying the Gulf
cartel more than $2 million a month in protection fees from public
works funds and towing fees.

El Mañana’s editors felt safe publishing the interview in all editions
because it seemed like a political corruption story, not one about the
cartel.

The cartel demand that followed was to run an interview with the
former mayor quoting him as saying he was innocent of the allegations.
But the former mayor had not requested an interview.

As he left the building, the duty editor said he planned to call the
former mayor on the way home.

Speeding through Reynosa’s back roads in the dark, he called the
former mayor, who said he had not requested an interview and did not
know the cartel had demanded one on his behalf.

It was time for a decision. “If you want an interview, we can do it in
our office or over the phone,” the editor said. If it’s in the office,
“we will need a photo of the interview; if it’s over the phone, we’ll
have to record it. Either way, we need to show it was real,” not
something made up by the cartel.

We won’t publish it right away, the editor added, so the cartel won’t
think it can tell the newspaper what to print.

The interview ran three days later, in all editions, including
Matamoros, where it mattered most to the cartel. But there was no
byline, not even in the Reynosa edition. Instead, it read simply, El
Mañana/Staff.

A photo shows a notice attributed to an organized crime gang that was
left next to the decapitated body of Maria Elizabeth Macias, the
39-year-old chief editor of the newspaper Primera Hora who was found
in Nuevo Laredo. The message was signed “ZZZZ,” normally associated
with the Zetas drug gang. (Agence France-Presse via Getty Images)
Social media steps up

Several years ago, shopkeepers, doctors, lawyers, mechanics, local
government workers and students began to fill the void in local news
with social-media coverage. It took the cartels a while to understand
what was happening on anonymous Twitter accounts and Facebook pages.

Once they did, retribution followed. On Sept. 26, 2011, the
decapitated body of a female blogger was left at the Christopher
Columbus monument in Nuevo Laredo. Next to her corpse were two
keyboards and a handwritten warning, signed “ZZZZ.”

But social-media crime reporting has only grown in the four years
since. It includes real-time maps of shootout locations, slayings and
kidnappings as well as endless cellphone videos of crimes in progress.

During the Post reporter’s visit in October, alerts and bulletins
about news that went unreported by El Mañana were rife on social
media:

Oct 17, 2:39 p.m. @MichaelNike8: Near the exit to San Fernando, tires
burning to distract the authorities

Oct 21, 1:50 p.m. @SSPTAM: Avoid the area between Reynosa and
Monterrey. Authorities are responding (to a situation)

Nov. 3: @Codigo Rojo [Code Red]: Yesterday, federal agents captured 3
men and a female commander of Toro [the local cartel commander in
Reynosa] and seized 3 new trucks and around 20 guns, including 5 or 6
guns covered in gold and diamonds; This photo shows what was taken out
of just one of the trucks.

Also trending on Twitter the same week was the one-year anniversary of
the killing of @Miut3.

@Miut3 was a prolific citizen crime reporter. She tweeted the location
of shootouts, explosions, carjackings and the identities of
disappeared people. On Oct. 15, 2014, her anonymous account was
hacked. Soon afterward, she became unreachable.

A tweet from the account of Maria Del Rosario Fuentes Rubio seen in a
screenshot, which has been modified by The Washington Post to protect
the identity of other Twitter users and with respect to Rubio's
family.

Her followers frantically refreshed their Twitter feeds trying to find
her. The next morning, at 5:04 a.m., a tweet from her account
appeared: “Friends and family, my real name is Maria Del Rosario
Fuentes Rubio, I’m a doctor and today, my life has come to an end.”

Minutes later, two photos appeared on her account. One showed Fuentes
Rubio in distress. “Close your accounts, don’t risk your families the
way I did,” her account read. “I ask you all for forgiveness.”

The second photo showed what appeared to be her bloodied face and
corpse on the ground. No one has been arrested.
An opening

In February, a few months after Fuentes Rubio was killed, the two
factions of the Gulf cartel in northeastern Mexico went to war again.
The chaos provided El Mañana with the kind of journalistic opening it
hadn’t had in 15 years.

With the cartel preoccupied, El Mañana became the newspaper it might
otherwise be had circumstances been different. The entire newsroom
deployed to cover the battles. Dramatic photos, detailed articles and
screaming headlines won Mexico’s attention.

Readers in Reynosa finally got the full story of what was happening around them:

Day One: “Border in Shock,” “Shoot-Outs and Roadblocks . . . ”

Day Two: “Border Under Siege: Marines Attacked, Three Armed Men
Killed, Soldiers Wounded”

“We were all excited in the newsroom,” said a longtime senior editor
who shepherded the coverage. “It was an adrenaline rush.”

“No other newspaper in the state” provided such detailed coverage.
“They were all afraid,” he said, nodding toward Deandar. “We have a
courageous boss.”

This was such big news, Deandar said he thought at the time, that he
wanted to share it even with readers in Matamoros despite the standing
cartel news blackout there. To be cautious, there would be no bylines
and no names of cartel members.

The cartels would not approve, cautioned Enrique Juarez, his Matamoros editor.

Just after midnight, the red printing press in Reynosa rolled out Day
Three’s edition. “Nine Dead in Fighting: Third Day Siege in Urban
Areas and Roads.” Delivery trucks dashed to their distribution hubs.

By 3 a.m., El Mañana employees discovered that the truck carrying the
newspapers for Matamoros had vanished. Deandar rallied a posse; they
found the vehicle at noon in an abandoned field, still full of
newspapers. He ordered the papers be delivered to Matamoros, where
they hit the streets an hour later.

Juarez, up in his second-floor office, got threatening phone calls right away.

At 4 p.m., as deadline loomed, someone called from the lobby asking
him to come down. He found a knife and braced himself. Armed men burst
in. One picked up a big jug of water and threw it at him, causing him
to drop the knife.

“We’re going to break you!” one yelled, as they dragged him away. They
stuffed him into a van, beat him about the head and back, and shoved
him onto the pavement an hour or so later.

Four frightened El Mañana employees in the Matamoros bureau resigned
the next day.

A story about Juarez’s abduction and a photo of him at his desk, with
the assaulting water jug, ran on Day Four next to the headline, “30
Dead Already, Mayor Suffers Grenade Attack, US Consul Suspends
Operations”

It did not appear in the Matamoros edition. Juarez and his family left
the city. He no longer works in Matamoros.

He is still not right, he said in an interview. “I don’t feel safe. I
look around when I go out.” He worries that the fighting cartel
factions will team up again and come after him.

“If I had the opportunity to leave . . . ” His voice trails off.

Enrique Juarez, an editor who was kidnapped over a story the cartel
did not like, is shown in the El Mañana office in Reynosa, Mexico, in
October. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)

Rosario Carmona, a Hubert H. Humphrey Fellow at the University of
Maryland’s Phillip Merrill School of Journalism, where Priest holds
the Knight Chair in Public Affairs Journalism; Alexander Quiñones, a
graduate student there; and Post researcher Julie Tate contributed to
this report.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 10 11:59:03 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:59:03 -0800
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5692B807.3070104@riseup.net>

coderman wrote:
> Juan, let me return your incredulity with clarity,
>
> i know i'm old, but that also means i remember a time we were not
> actually at war (except drug war! in hindsight, that counts as war
> well enough...)

U.S "Personnel" waterboarding a Filipino civilian during the
Spanish-American War.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/6c6155a0f4f9f8233b5f035bffda624c/tumblr_inline_nqnvfbeINf1r5tcby_1280.jpg


Another war, btw based solely on fabrication...

> In 1976 ... in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, Admiral Hyman
> Rickover conducted a new investigation. Rickover, something of a
> maverick in the Navy, came to the conclusion that the explosion was
> caused by spontaneous combustion in the ship’s coal bins, a problem
> that afflicted other ships of the period.

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5470/

IOW "Town Gas" blew up the Maine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas

In summation, you must be ooooolllllld. Older than dirt. Older than
electricity.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 12:03:38 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 12:03:38 -0800
Subject: sad state of symmetric crypto - algebraic ignoring continues?
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QZmOS07THyJEaU9B238dtKWuh6txMkMgGihYEntD5ACg@mail.gmail.com>

algebraic attacks on GHOST, etc:
- http://crypto.2015.rump.cr.yp.to/1ea2c6c01144e0e7f6b14b324c5e4562.pdf
- https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/812.pdf

AES has intentional algebraic structure as well, yet also resists
linear, differential cryptanalysis. (e.g. strong in these aspects
despite simple algebraic structure)


how long until someone discovers a workable algebraic attack?

when will we get S-Box constants and other magics truly generated at
random? No more up my sleeve numbers! :)


best regards,




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 10 12:15:17 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 12:15:17 -0800
Subject: Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug
 cartels
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5692BBD5.9000806@riseup.net>

Ofc, due to the Wapo's owner's BFF relationships with "Other Government
Agencies", what goes unstated is that the Zetas were/are the only major
drug gang in Mexico NOT AFFILIATED with the CIA.

The Gulf Cartel was also the beneficiary of the ATFE's "botched"
(sure...) 'Fast and Furious' gun-running "sting" where they gave
hundreds, if not thousands of military grade weapons to the CIA's drug
smuggling buds in Mexico and never bothered to track them... even if
they could.


coderman wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/censor-or-die-the-death-of-mexican-news-in-the-age-of-drug-cartels/2015/12/09/23acf3ae-8a26-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html
>
>
> Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug cartels
> By Dana Priest December 11, 2015
>
> CONTROLLING THE STORY: This is the fifth installment in an ongoing
> series examining the human cost of reporting the news around the
> world.
>
> One journalist's experience on Mexico's deadliest beat
>
> REYNOSA, Mexico — As deadline descended on El Mañana’s newsroom and
> reporters rushed to file their stories, someone in the employ of a
> local drug cartel called with a demand from his crime boss.
>
> The caller was a journalist for another newspaper, known here as an
> enlace, or “link” to the cartel. The compromised journalist barked out
> the order: Publish an article saying the mayor in Matamoros had not
> paid the cartel $2 million a month in protection fees, as an El Mañana
> front-page story had alleged the day before.
>
> “They want us to say he’s not guilty,” the editor who took the call
> told his colleagues during the episode in late October. Knowing
> glances passed between them as a visiting Washington Post reporter
> looked on.
>
> They all knew that defiance carried a high price.
>
> The enlaces are part of the deeply institutionalized system of cartel
> censorship imposed on media outlets in northeastern Mexico abutting
> the border of Texas. How it works is an open secret in newsrooms here
> but not among readers. They are unaware of the life-and-death
> decisions editors make every day not to anger different local cartel
> commanders, each of whom has his own media philosophy.
>
> Submitting to cartel demands is the only way to survive, said
> Hildebrando “Brando” Deandar Ayala, 39, editor in chief of El Mañana,
> one of the oldest and largest newspapers in the region with a print
> circulation of 30,000. “You do it or you die, and nobody wants to
> die,” he said. “Auto censura — self-censorship — that’s our shield.”
>
> Readers get angry when they don’t get the news they need, he said.
> Resentment against El Mañana grew so strong two years ago that
> reporters took the logos off their cars and stopped carrying their
> identification on assignments.
>
> “The readers hate us sometimes,” Deandar said. “But they don’t know
> the real risks we go through.”
>
> Mexico has long been a deadly place for reporters. Some 88 journalists
> have been slain in the last two decades, according to Article 19, a
> worldwide advocacy group that promotes press freedom.
>
> With its endless drug wars, Mexico is one of the most dangerous places
> in a world that has seen a recent upswing in violence against
> journalists, with scores of reporters killed or jailed in Afghanistan,
> Pakistan, the Arab Spring countries, Central America and the former
> Soviet bloc.
>
> [Read previous stories from this series]
>
> The risks have been especially high for El Mañana because its
> circulation area is bounded to the west by the birthplace of the Zetas
> criminal network in Nuevo Laredo and to the east by the Gulf crime
> syndicate’s home base in Matamoros.
>
> In February, the last time El Mañana defied a cartel’s censorship
> rules, an editor in its Matamoros bureau was dragged outside, stuffed
> in a van and beaten as his abductors drove around threatening him with
> death.
>
> “Next time, we’ll kill you!” one yelled before pushing him out of the vehicle.
>
> Four El Mañana journalists have been killed in the past 10 years.
> Others survived assassination attempts, kidnappings, and grenade and
> machine-gun attacks on their offices. Deandar has been shot, kidnapped
> and had his home set on fire, he said.
>
> Hildebrando “Brando” Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana,
> center, checks in with different departments at the newspaper’s office
> in Reynosa, Mexico, on Oct. 29. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
>
> The worst assaults began in 2004, when an editor in Nuevo Laredo was
> stabbed to death. Two years later, gunmen broke into the bureau there,
> detonated a grenade and sprayed machine gunfire, leaving one employee
> paralyzed.
>
> Afterward, bulletproof glass and electronic security keys were
> installed at its three offices, where the blinds are always drawn.
>
> In March 2010, when the Gulf cartel defeated the Zetas for control of
> Reynosa, it took revenge on three El Mañana reporters whom the Zetas
> had forced to watch one of its mass executions.
>
> The cartel called the three Reynosa reporters and told them, “ ‘either
> you come in or we’ll pick you up,’ ” an editor there at the time
> recalled.
>
> They surrendered to the cartel and were never heard from again. Their
> presumed slayings were never reported by El Mañana, editors said,
> because that’s what the Gulf commander demanded. The enlace passed
> word that the killings were a one-time message to the Zetas, not a
> tactic the cartel intended to repeat against the newspaper.
>
> Twice in 2012, gunmen from the Zetas shot up the offices of the Nuevo
> Laredo bureau. Not long after, El Mañana announced it would no longer
> print cartel news in its Nuevo Laredo edition. Articles about Nuevo
> Laredo crime sometimes appear in other editions, but without a byline
> or names in the story.
>
> Five of nine bodies are shown hanging from a bridge in the Mexican
> border city of Nuevo Laredo, in Tamaulipas state, in the early morning
> of May 4, 2012. The bodies showed signs of beating and torture. (Raul
> Llamas/Agence France-Presse via Getty Images)
> North America’s ISIS
>
> The cartels’ tactics resemble those most Americans would associate
> with al-Qaeda and the Islamic State. The display of multiple beheaded
> corpses and bodies hanging from bridges are a regular occurrence.
> Hundreds of young people have disappeared. Mass graves are
> commonplace.
>
> The comparison with terrorist groups 7,300 miles away frustrates
> journalists here. They watch the endless international coverage of
> Middle East violence yet know that the terrorism just across the U.S.
> border is largely ignored by the American media.
>
> Mexico’s 2014 murder rate of 13 per 100,000 is twice as high as Afghanistan’s.
>
> “We have a war here, and we’re doing war reporting,” said Ildefonso
> “Poncho” Ortiz, a deeply sourced reporter for Breitbart News Network’s
> Cartel Chronicles, one of the only American outlets to track cartel
> maneuvers. “Sometimes AP [the Associated Press wire service] will pick
> up a story, but other than that, it never leaves the valley.”
>
> The three largest U.S. newspapers nearby — the Brownsville Herald, the
> Monitor in McAllen, Tex., and the Laredo Morning Times — forbid their
> reporters from crossing to report because it’s too dangerous,
> according to the editors at the newspapers.
>
> Pervasive corruption abets the violence. The local police forces have
> been disbanded and replaced by the army and federal police in the
> northern Mexican state of Tamaulipas, which includes Matamoros, Nuevo
> Laredo and Reynosa.
>
> A car bomb killed the Nuevo Laredo mayor one week after he was sworn
> in. The new Matamoros mayor survived an ambush in March. Cartels
> install surveillance cameras throughout their cities and employ
> lookouts with cellphones to keep watch. U.S. Border Patrol officers
> are regularly indicted for cooperating with organized crime.
>
> “Tamaulipas is a black hole when it comes to information,” said Aaron
> Nelsen, a reporter based in McAllen for the San Antonio Express-News.
> “It’s so hard to get anyone to talk about it,” even elected U.S.
> officials.
> Hildebrando Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana, sits in the
> newspaper’s office in McAllen, Tex., in October. (Jabin Botsford/The
> Washington Post)
> Ildefonso “Poncho” Ortiz, a reporter with Breitbart News Network,
> lives in the United States but regularly reports on cartel activities
> along the Mexico border. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
> A cartel media director
>
> El Mañana’s circulation area includes major U.S. border cities; its
> online editions are read as far north as San Antonio and Houston.
>
> It is a third-generation family enterprise, founded in 1924 as an
> anti-establishment voice. Over most of its 91 years, its formidable
> enemies were corrupt politicians and their hand-picked prosecutors.
>
> The newspaper now maintains a working relationship with the local
> governments, as evidenced by the government advertising it receives.
> Withholding state advertising dollars is a common and effective
> economic hammer used against media outlets whose investigations upset
> the status quo.
>
> “When it’s not the politicians against us, it’s the drug dealers,”
> said Heriberto Deandar, 78, who co-owns El Mañana with his brother,
> Brando’s father. “He who is not afraid has no courage.”
>
> Brando was raised in Reynosa but moved to McAllen in 2007 for safety
> reasons. He commutes to work. Asked why he doesn’t find a safer job,
> he said simply, “It’s in my blood. I cannot leave.”
>
> During a recent visit to the town, the eerie atmosphere was inescapable.
>
> Reynosa’s wide boulevards were nearly empty. Heavily armed soldiers
> patrolled in black masks to protect their identities from cartels
> resentful of the army’s two-year occupation.
>
> Military helicopters whooped periodically overhead, racing to
> shootouts or hunting suspects. At dusk, hundreds of cars streamed
> slowly across the international bridge to McAllen, where an increasing
> number of well-to-do Mexicans have moved their families to safety.
>
> The Metros faction of the Gulf cartel controls much of civic life and
> all contraband — drugs, sex slaves, immigrant smuggling, fuel, stolen
> vehicles — in or moving through Reynosa, said journalists and media
> experts here. Its commander, whose parents are from Reynosa, has a
> more liberal view of the media than his counterparts in the other two
> cities.
>
> He seems to care about his image, too, they said, as evidenced by the
> “narcobanners” that appeared on city bridges in November.
>
> “This is to make it clear that I am a narcotrafficker, not a terrorist
> like you’ve been saying in the media,” the cartel boss declared in one
> handwritten sheet-sized banner. “Investigate and check your facts.
> Crime has lessened since I took charge.”
>
> In Matamoros, though, the commander of the cartel’s Ciclones faction
> tolerates no coverage. In Nuevo Laredo, the Zetas have a commander of
> finance, assassinations, logistics, stolen vehicles and fuel, weapons,
> prostitution, immigrant smuggling — and media.
>
> The Zetas media director, a clean-cut, 30-something man described by
> one person who knows him as “a pretty friendly guy,” calls enlaces and
> beat reporters at El Mañana and other media outlets every day to tell
> them what stories the cartel wants published or censored. One day it’s
> a story critical of new government limits on imported cars; the next
> it’s a birthday party in the social pages featuring a cartel boss’s
> daughter. Sometimes the media director provides photos and video for
> an article.
>
> “It’s a common conversation every day,” one reporter said.
>
> Reporters have learned to consult him on nearly everything, one media
> expert said. Even a car crash isn’t a simple car crash. “You have to
> call somebody to make sure you can write about it,” one journalist
> said, because it might actually not be an accident but a purposeful
> vehicular homicide organized by the cartel.
>
> Critical coverage of local politicians is also forbidden.
>
> For his own security, the media director changes cellphones often, but
> his online avatar always stays the same: a rabbit.
>
> The three cartel commanders’ differing media philosophies force El
> Mañana to produce three distinctly different editions. “If you want to
> find out what’s happening in Nuevo Laredo or Matamoros, you read El
> Mañana de Reynosa,” Deandar said.
>
> For example, when Mexican troops captured the leader of the Matamoros
> faction in October, known as “Ciclón 7,” El Mañana did not print a
> word about it in its Matamoros edition. But in Reynosa and Nuevo
> Laredo, it was banner news.
>
> With Ciclón 7 gone, Deandar said, “we are waiting to see who is the
> next chief, so we’ll know the rules.”
>
> Hildebrando Deandar Ayala, editor in chief of El Mañana, right, and
> Enrique Juarez, his Matamoros editor who was kidnapped by the cartel
> in February because the paper defied its news blackout, discuss
> coverage in Deandar’s office. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
> Mechanics of self-censorship
>
> After hearing the enlace’s demand to exonerate the allegedly corrupt
> mayor in Matamoros, the editor on duty rubbed his head trying to
> contain himself.
>
> “First they tell us what not to publish, now they are telling us what
> to publish!” he yelled before heading upstairs to his office.
>
> He dialed the editor in Matamoros who had passed the enlace’s message
> to Reynosa, put the phone on speaker mode and upped the volume so the
> whole room could hear.
>
> Enlaces pass instructions via phone calls, text messages, apps and in
> personal meetings. They often communicate cartel demands to crime
> reporters who show up at the scene of shootouts, blockades, car bombs
> and executions.
>
> Sometimes a cartel member will run into crime reporters at the scene.
>
> “They’ll say, ‘Get the hell out of here! We’ll kill you!’ And we have
> to go,” one reporter said.
>
> Three minutes into the conversation with the Matamoros editor, the
> senior editor began raising his voice about the enlace.
>
> “Give me his name and number!” he shouted. “And tell him you’re not
> going to take any more messages! No more! Tell him if you take any
> more messages, I’m going to fire you!”
>
> He hung up, waved around the piece of paper with the enlace’s name and
> phone number on it and then stood up. It was getting dark. Time to
> leave for a safer city.
>
> The front-page story that upset the cartel was a reprinted interview
> with the new mayor of Matamoros, Leticia Salazar, an anti-corruption
> crusader. The interview was conducted by the national Excelsior
> newspaper. In it, she accused her predecessor of paying the Gulf
> cartel more than $2 million a month in protection fees from public
> works funds and towing fees.
>
> El Mañana’s editors felt safe publishing the interview in all editions
> because it seemed like a political corruption story, not one about the
> cartel.
>
> The cartel demand that followed was to run an interview with the
> former mayor quoting him as saying he was innocent of the allegations.
> But the former mayor had not requested an interview.
>
> As he left the building, the duty editor said he planned to call the
> former mayor on the way home.
>
> Speeding through Reynosa’s back roads in the dark, he called the
> former mayor, who said he had not requested an interview and did not
> know the cartel had demanded one on his behalf.
>
> It was time for a decision. “If you want an interview, we can do it in
> our office or over the phone,” the editor said. If it’s in the office,
> “we will need a photo of the interview; if it’s over the phone, we’ll
> have to record it. Either way, we need to show it was real,” not
> something made up by the cartel.
>
> We won’t publish it right away, the editor added, so the cartel won’t
> think it can tell the newspaper what to print.
>
> The interview ran three days later, in all editions, including
> Matamoros, where it mattered most to the cartel. But there was no
> byline, not even in the Reynosa edition. Instead, it read simply, El
> Mañana/Staff.
>
> A photo shows a notice attributed to an organized crime gang that was
> left next to the decapitated body of Maria Elizabeth Macias, the
> 39-year-old chief editor of the newspaper Primera Hora who was found
> in Nuevo Laredo. The message was signed “ZZZZ,” normally associated
> with the Zetas drug gang. (Agence France-Presse via Getty Images)
> Social media steps up
>
> Several years ago, shopkeepers, doctors, lawyers, mechanics, local
> government workers and students began to fill the void in local news
> with social-media coverage. It took the cartels a while to understand
> what was happening on anonymous Twitter accounts and Facebook pages.
>
> Once they did, retribution followed. On Sept. 26, 2011, the
> decapitated body of a female blogger was left at the Christopher
> Columbus monument in Nuevo Laredo. Next to her corpse were two
> keyboards and a handwritten warning, signed “ZZZZ.”
>
> But social-media crime reporting has only grown in the four years
> since. It includes real-time maps of shootout locations, slayings and
> kidnappings as well as endless cellphone videos of crimes in progress.
>
> During the Post reporter’s visit in October, alerts and bulletins
> about news that went unreported by El Mañana were rife on social
> media:
>
> Oct 17, 2:39 p.m. @MichaelNike8: Near the exit to San Fernando, tires
> burning to distract the authorities
>
> Oct 21, 1:50 p.m. @SSPTAM: Avoid the area between Reynosa and
> Monterrey. Authorities are responding (to a situation)
>
> Nov. 3: @Codigo Rojo [Code Red]: Yesterday, federal agents captured 3
> men and a female commander of Toro [the local cartel commander in
> Reynosa] and seized 3 new trucks and around 20 guns, including 5 or 6
> guns covered in gold and diamonds; This photo shows what was taken out
> of just one of the trucks.
>
> Also trending on Twitter the same week was the one-year anniversary of
> the killing of @Miut3.
>
> @Miut3 was a prolific citizen crime reporter. She tweeted the location
> of shootouts, explosions, carjackings and the identities of
> disappeared people. On Oct. 15, 2014, her anonymous account was
> hacked. Soon afterward, she became unreachable.
>
> A tweet from the account of Maria Del Rosario Fuentes Rubio seen in a
> screenshot, which has been modified by The Washington Post to protect
> the identity of other Twitter users and with respect to Rubio's
> family.
>
> Her followers frantically refreshed their Twitter feeds trying to find
> her. The next morning, at 5:04 a.m., a tweet from her account
> appeared: “Friends and family, my real name is Maria Del Rosario
> Fuentes Rubio, I’m a doctor and today, my life has come to an end.”
>
> Minutes later, two photos appeared on her account. One showed Fuentes
> Rubio in distress. “Close your accounts, don’t risk your families the
> way I did,” her account read. “I ask you all for forgiveness.”
>
> The second photo showed what appeared to be her bloodied face and
> corpse on the ground. No one has been arrested.
> An opening
>
> In February, a few months after Fuentes Rubio was killed, the two
> factions of the Gulf cartel in northeastern Mexico went to war again.
> The chaos provided El Mañana with the kind of journalistic opening it
> hadn’t had in 15 years.
>
> With the cartel preoccupied, El Mañana became the newspaper it might
> otherwise be had circumstances been different. The entire newsroom
> deployed to cover the battles. Dramatic photos, detailed articles and
> screaming headlines won Mexico’s attention.
>
> Readers in Reynosa finally got the full story of what was happening around them:
>
> Day One: “Border in Shock,” “Shoot-Outs and Roadblocks . . . ”
>
> Day Two: “Border Under Siege: Marines Attacked, Three Armed Men
> Killed, Soldiers Wounded”
>
> “We were all excited in the newsroom,” said a longtime senior editor
> who shepherded the coverage. “It was an adrenaline rush.”
>
> “No other newspaper in the state” provided such detailed coverage.
> “They were all afraid,” he said, nodding toward Deandar. “We have a
> courageous boss.”
>
> This was such big news, Deandar said he thought at the time, that he
> wanted to share it even with readers in Matamoros despite the standing
> cartel news blackout there. To be cautious, there would be no bylines
> and no names of cartel members.
>
> The cartels would not approve, cautioned Enrique Juarez, his Matamoros editor.
>
> Just after midnight, the red printing press in Reynosa rolled out Day
> Three’s edition. “Nine Dead in Fighting: Third Day Siege in Urban
> Areas and Roads.” Delivery trucks dashed to their distribution hubs.
>
> By 3 a.m., El Mañana employees discovered that the truck carrying the
> newspapers for Matamoros had vanished. Deandar rallied a posse; they
> found the vehicle at noon in an abandoned field, still full of
> newspapers. He ordered the papers be delivered to Matamoros, where
> they hit the streets an hour later.
>
> Juarez, up in his second-floor office, got threatening phone calls right away.
>
> At 4 p.m., as deadline loomed, someone called from the lobby asking
> him to come down. He found a knife and braced himself. Armed men burst
> in. One picked up a big jug of water and threw it at him, causing him
> to drop the knife.
>
> “We’re going to break you!” one yelled, as they dragged him away. They
> stuffed him into a van, beat him about the head and back, and shoved
> him onto the pavement an hour or so later.
>
> Four frightened El Mañana employees in the Matamoros bureau resigned
> the next day.
>
> A story about Juarez’s abduction and a photo of him at his desk, with
> the assaulting water jug, ran on Day Four next to the headline, “30
> Dead Already, Mayor Suffers Grenade Attack, US Consul Suspends
> Operations”
>
> It did not appear in the Matamoros edition. Juarez and his family left
> the city. He no longer works in Matamoros.
>
> He is still not right, he said in an interview. “I don’t feel safe. I
> look around when I go out.” He worries that the fighting cartel
> factions will team up again and come after him.
>
> “If I had the opportunity to leave . . . ” His voice trails off.
>
> Enrique Juarez, an editor who was kidnapped over a story the cartel
> did not like, is shown in the El Mañana office in Reynosa, Mexico, in
> October. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
>
> Rosario Carmona, a Hubert H. Humphrey Fellow at the University of
> Maryland’s Phillip Merrill School of Journalism, where Priest holds
> the Knight Chair in Public Affairs Journalism; Alexander Quiñones, a
> graduate student there; and Post researcher Julie Tate contributed to
> this report.
>
>


-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 13:29:38 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 13:29:38 -0800
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5692B807.3070104@riseup.net>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692B807.3070104@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Q35zK=4btku_tSX6SPzwjzM9KcBsAPOk9Dy_yJgT6vug@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> ...
> In summation, you must be ooooolllllld. Older than dirt. Older than
> electricity.

(~_~;)




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 08:45:04 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 13:45:04 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 04:50:35 -0800
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> .
> now USA in a state of perpetual war, 


	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking about. 



> executive power at record levels,
> surveillance staggering in breadth and invasiveness, censorship and
> suppression of speech creeping ever further into the centralized
> systems dominating over our way of life, it's not good...
>  and yet we're not rounding up foreign-born citizens and their
> families for incarceration at detention camps

	dude the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
	What the fuck are you talking about. 


> (like Japanese during
> the war).  not to mention that much of the rest of the world would be
> killed or imprisoned leading my kind of  life in another jurisdiction!


	DUDE! Are you trelling or what??


> 
> when people are being killed for exposing corruption or injustice, 
	

	speechless



it
> seems ridiculous to complain about annoyances resulting from optional
> activities i have chosen to undertake willingly - not out of dire need
> or coercion.  with all my needs still met.
> 
> ---
> 
> all of which made me wonder, what did the every day German or Italian
> citizen see before fascism ravaged sanity? what did they see that felt


	they laughably thought, exactly like you, that  they were
	morally superior to the rest of the world. 


> ---
> 
> then another "If you quit doing that, it would all be much easier..."
> was said, and i wondered if this was the key sign of trouble i was
> fearing to see. when lawful activities performed for the good of the
> public draw unjustified scrutiny and disruption from the state, has
> the state itself become corrupt?

	
	has become corrupt? How much to you get paid to troll this
	list?

	


> 
> how far must this corruption spread before it cannot be stopped
> without destruction of the state, no matter the size and vehemency of
> public protest?
> 
> can the tools of technology and manufactured consent provide the state
> ability to become completely corrupted without detection, nor
> resistance from the public?


	No it's acutally propagandists like you who are to blame. 



> 
> ---
> 
> i don't know the answers, and i am curious to hear opinions.


	Answers to what. You didnt actually ask any questions, you just
	parroted propaganda.



> 
> i still live a rich life with needs met 


	as some kind of military contractor perhaps? Like tor cunts, or
	worse.




> and i don't think we're on the
> brink of a fascist nightmare future. maybe hell on earth is closer
> than i think...
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> best regards,
> 
> 
> NOTE: i am using the terms fascist and fascism explicitly, not
> capriciously. '''
> Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism that came to
> prominence in early 20th-century Europe...


	DUDE!!!





From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sun Jan 10 11:57:38 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 13:57:38 -0600
Subject: Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug
 cartels
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1452455858.30853.3.camel@moonpatrol>

On Sun, 2016-01-10 at 11:39 -0800, coderman wrote:
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/censor-or-die-the-death-of-mexican-news-in-the-age-of-drug-cartels/2015/12/09/23acf3ae-8a26-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html
> 
> 
> Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug cartels
> By Dana Priest December 11, 2015
> 
> CONTROLLING THE STORY: This is the fifth installment in an ongoing
> series examining the human cost of reporting the news around the
> world.
> 
> One journalist's experience on Mexico's deadliest beat
> 
> REYNOSA, Mexico — As deadline descended on El Mañana’s newsroom and
> reporters rushed to file their stories, someone in the employ of a
> local drug cartel called with a demand from his crime boss.
> 
> The caller was a journalist for another newspaper, known here as an
> enlace, or “link” to the cartel. The compromised journalist barked out
> the order: Publish an article saying the mayor in Matamoros had not
> paid the cartel $2 million a month in protection fees, as an El Mañana
> front-page story had alleged the day before.
> 
> “They want us to say he’s not guilty,” the editor who took the call
> told his colleagues during the episode in late October. Knowing
> glances passed between them as a visiting Washington Post reporter
> looked on.
> 
> They all knew that defiance carried a high price.
[...]

Sounds like the kind of thing that Tor and similar anonymity protections
were made for. Kind of sad that journalists, of all people, would have
to resort to publishing stories anonymously. As William Randolph Hearst
said, "Whatever a patron desires to get published is advertising;
whatever he wants to keep out of the paper is news." Or, as more often
phrased, journalism is that which someone doesn't want published, and
everything else is public relations (PR).

Back in Hearst's day, though, killing journalists to silence them was
unthinkable, and people in general had a bit more scruples back then.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 12:53:45 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:53:45 -0500
Subject: Cicada 3301: 2016
In-Reply-To: <5691F274.3050704@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_9eUsbe1cqqq6ivZPcx3RasWjbD8_EUMKTvU4sZVYSbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5691F274.3050704@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29zkCk+HksQNVFEGeazZS7f=p5F2UXROy5XBDLNw11CVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:56 AM, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> grarpamp wrote:
>> https://twitter.com/1231507051321/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301
>> http://uncovering-cicada.wikia.com/
>>
>>> "Please give people some indication as to what these links are about.
>>> Edit this and resubmit and I'll send it thru. Thanks."

>> Due to retarded policy, you apparently need the following handholding...
>> THESE LINKS ARE ABOUT CRYPTO PUZZLES.

> Siriusly... The mod at cryptography metzdowd com didn't know Cicada 3301
> might take the whole dang list down the rabbit hole with it?

First they reject your concise and totally ontopic post,
so you provide exactly what they ask for,
then they call responsive answers to their asking "inappropriate",
and fail to honor their contract to "send it thru"...

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator."

It's easier for them to reject things like Cicada than for them
to open their minds to the degree necessary to follow them
down the Rabbit Hole... and to censor critiques be they satirical,
thoughtful, or otherwise... that's sad.

Who do you want designing your next cryptosystem?
The Church? Or some random Nigerian scrappers?
The Church might not be all that bad given it's still securely
holding whatever secrets it didn't burn from Antiquity.
Just remember they stole them from the Nigerians.

Rabbit Holes are Scary, and full of Knowledge, and
Wisdom... and Turds. They're certainly not for everyone.

Anyway, I return them to their quarterly circle jerk over
RNG's, die rolling, noise, XOR, and the like, the most
recent of which went over 80 posts.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 13:19:28 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:19:28 -0500
Subject: Censor or die: The death of Mexican news in the age of drug
 cartels
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1R=spCN7c=Rz5y7WTHj5kTZLWyofaCOqBPYSGVZyChw9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29enZcFinggPyJQ5L4YeK58St7RJohbx1M8SdzPbZyHFA@mail.gmail.com>

> “You do it or you die, and nobody wants to
> die,” he said. “Auto censura — self-censorship — that’s our shield.”

> The enlaces are part of the deeply institutionalized system of cartel
> censorship imposed on media outlets in ...

... modern industrial civil democratic western countries.

> In February, the last time El Mañana defied a cartel’s censorship
> rules...

... they were forced to destroy their laptops.

> Cartels install surveillance cameras throughout their cities and employ
lookouts with cellphones to keep watch.

... stingrays and fiber taps too.

> “a pretty friendly guy,” calls enlaces and
> beat reporters at El Mañana and other media outlets every day to tell
> them what stories the cartel wants published or censored. One day it’s
> a story critical of new government limits

"Hey, so we were going to publish some of these TOP SECRET
docs we have, out of "courtesy" and "patriotism" is there anything
you want us to redact?"

> an editor who was kidnapped by the cartel in February because the paper defied its news blackout...

... now spends their time holed up in embassies and foreign lands.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 13:38:43 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 16:38:43 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
 without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <CAOLP8p5ojKDkCdF29T6PYgJ6NF8htcRGcMPGmzHvp-kdgGg1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOLP8p5ojKDkCdF29T6PYgJ6NF8htcRGcMPGmzHvp-kdgGg1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-CSgNKLGmzxdTWcS=xC721-f5FqOyh=4e+Q4Cd5M4Y-w@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:38 AM
Subject: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
without backdoors
To: "cryptography at metzdowd.com" <cryptography at metzdowd.com>


This is an old idea, but perhaps now there might be more reason to
consider it.  I currently call this idea Alias.  Here's my dumb
data-dump on it.  Thoughts?

Alias is a concept for a TOR-like Internet protocol supporting free
speech and user privacy, but without encouraging the worst evil
behaviors.  Exit Nodes are replaced with Public Gateways, which
sponsor users.  The definition of evil behavior is defined by the
Public Gateways and operators of routing nodes.  Users would be
encouraged to use good behavior, as their public alias would develop a
reputation over time.  Anonymity would be protected, but a user's
Public Gateway and any routing node could refuse to route data for
aliases with poor reputations.

TOR was created with a lofty goal: to support free speech.
Unfortunately, TOR has drawn attention from governments and law
enforcement, as it could be used to protect some of the worst
activities, such as contract killing, and the slave trade.  TOR Exit
Node operators generally follow a strict policy of never looking at
traffic, because simply observing this traffic would require Exit Node
operators in most countries to regularly contact law enforcement to
report crimes.  PrivaTegrity is an alternative protocol to TOR, which
aims to find a balance between protecting free speech and protecting
the world from the worst behavior.  Unfortunately, the PrivaTegrity
inserts encryption backdoors.

Alias Design:

This is very much a dumb idea in the half-baked stage.  Feedback and
ideas are welcome.

Alias would be a fork of TOR, and route Internet traffic from a user's
machine through a couple of Routing Nodes, to a Public Gateway, which
replaces the Exit Node.  The Public Gateway would have an account for
the user, under a pseudonym used on Alias network by the user, called
his alias.  The Public Gateway should keep an email contact address
for the user, similar to regular accounts on various web sites.

In Alias, user aliases would have trackable reputations, and the
reputations of user aliases would be combined into a reputation for a
Public Gateway.  At a minimum, incident reports would be used to
compute user reputations.  Exactly how this works is TBD, but the goal
is to cause gateways with very poor reputations to be effectively
blacklisted by routing nodes, and for users with poor reputations to
be dropped by reputable gateways.  Users could move their alias from
one gateway to another when needed, but they could not erase what
their previous gateway knows about there identity.  The Gateway would
not know a user's location, and in many cases will know nothing other
than the user's reputation and email address.  When requested by a
government authority, at a minimum, a gateway can drop support for a
user alias, causing that alias to try to find a new gateway that will
agree to sponsor it.

Participants who act as routing nodes in Alias would be able to select
what sort of reputations they require from aliases and Gateways to
allow traffic to be routed through them to those gateways.  They
could, for example, choose to not route data for any gateway with a
high reputation for routing to pornography sites.

I compare the TOR, PrivaTegrity, and Alias concepts in several "threat
cases" below:

Threat Case: Governments Overreact to Terrorism

In this case, we assume all the governments involved have decided to
share all user network traffic in a mass surveillance program.  The
user Alice has something to say, such as wanting to tell the world
that the mass surveillance program exists.

TOR:  Alice succeeds in using TOR to log into various blogging sites
and publishes her knowledge about the surveillance program.
Unfortunately, TOR provides limited defense against the Men in Black
(MiB), and Alice may be arrested.  The MiB is assumed to compromise
TOR in various ways, such as operating many Exit Nodes and monitoring
meta-data such as packet timing and size between nodes.

PrivaTegrity:  With the assumption that all governments involved are
colluding, Alice is revealed directly, without having to subvert the
protocol.

Alias:  Alice needs a Public Gateway to sponsor her.  She can choose a
gateway with a reputation of sponsoring free speech, such various
newspapers, in a country that is not participating in the mass
surveillance program.  When Alice posts what she knows to various
blogs, the Public Gateway (newspaper in this case) will be the the one
defending her anonymity.  In any case, even if the newspaper is forced
to reveal what they know about Alice, they never knew her location.

Conclusion: Alias seems to provide better protection of free speech in
this case.

Threat Case: A Single Government Blackmails the Rest

Suppose one of the governments involved decides to use it’s influence
in the protocol to blackmail one or more of the other governments
involved into agreeing to some political agenda.

TOR: If the government were the USA, it might have unique powers to
track users through the TOR network.  If true, the USA could refuse to
reveal a French suspected terrorist unless the French government share
mass surveillance data collected on it’s citizens.  Is this sort of
thinking too paranoid?

PrivaTegrity:  With nine separate governments who must collude to
expose a user, it is possible for any one of the nine to blackmail the
rest.  For example, if tracking down a particular user is of critical
importance to one government, another could demand certain trade
policies be agreed to before allowing that user to be revealed.

Alias:  A country containing the Public Gateway sponsoring a user
might make political demands from another country before agreeing to
force the Public Gateway to reveal a user’s email address.  However,
this coercion is weaker than weaker than the TOR case because there is
no country with majority control, and weaker than the PrivaTegrity
case because a government can coerce cooperation only from Public
Gateways in its country.

Conclusion: While none are immune to this threat, Alias seems to
perform better in this case.

Threat Case: Hackers Compromise the Network

In this case, a group of hackers wants to reveal the identity of a
particular user.

TOR: There is little chance that the attacker can hack all the nodes
from the user to the Exit Node, and since the Exit Node has no
information about the user, there seems to be little chance that the
hacker can reveal the user’s identity, short of bugs in the protocol.

PrivaTegrity:  While hackers might hack one or more of the nine
governments, it would be a considerable task for the hacker to hack
them all.  However, it is possible, and this is a weakness vs TOR.

Alias:  The hacker need only hack the user’s chosen Public Gateway,
which is a considerably simpler task than with PrivaTegrity.

Conclusion:  Hackability of Public Gateways is a significant weakness
for Alias compared to the other two.

Threat Case:  Evil Users Secretly Collude

In this case, suppose there is strong evidence that several evil users
wants to collude to do something terrible, and they want to
communicate anonymously.  For example, they could be running a
contract-killing business or enslaving people and selling them on the
Dark Web.

TOR:  Unfortunately, evil behaviors have been enabled in some cases over TOR.

PrivaTegrity:  The users involved in such evil activities can have
their communication secretly wiretapped.  This is a strong capability
for law enforcement in this case.

Alias: Assuming reputable Public Gateways are used, most of the users’
emails would be revealed to law enforcement.  This is weaker than a
wiretap.

Conclusion: In the case of severe evil, PrivaTegrity performs the
best, Alias next best, and TOR the worst.

Threat Case:  Somewhat Evil Users Secretly Collude

What is evil vs good is highly subjective, and getting people to agree
can be difficult.  In this case, the users are engaged in what most
reasonable people consider evil.  For example, consider illegal trade
in ivory, which could lead to the extinction of wild elephants.

TOR:  Users trading in ivory likely would benefit from using TOR.

PrivaTegrity:  Having to get cooperation from nine governments may be
too painful when tracking down a single ivory trader, and the ivory
trader likely could use PrivaTegrity to their advantage.  If, on the
other hand, the nine governments put in place a rapid rubber-stamp
process to enable going after small-time criminals, then this
capability can be highly abused.

Alias:  Ivory traders would avoid using Alias through reputable Public
Gateways, since their identities could easily be revealed¸ and the
sites the traders visit to buy/sell ivory would not likely be very
reputable, lowering their alias' reputation.

Conclusion: Alias seems to perform better at determine somewhat evil behaviors.

Bill

_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptography at metzdowd.com
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 16:24:08 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 21:24:08 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:36:43 -0800
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/10/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> now USA in a state of perpetual war,
> >
> > 	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking about.
> 
> Juan, let me return your incredulity with clarity,
> 
> i know i'm old, but that also means i remember a time we were not
> actually at war (except drug war! in hindsight, that counts as war
> well enough...)


	"America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years
	– Since 1776"

	http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/america-war-93-time-222-239-years-since-1776.html



> 
> 
> 
> > 	dude the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world.
> > 	What the fuck are you talking about.
> 
> incarceration rate alone doesn't tell the tale. 


	It does tell, for starters, that the US is anything but a 'free
	society'.

	"not to mention that much of the rest of the world would be
killed or imprisoned leading my kind of  life in another jurisdiction" 

	I don't know what kind of life you lead but it is  obvious that
	under US 'juris' 'diction', not obeying the nazis in charge
	is likely to land you in jail and of course the police will
	execute you on the spot if you resist. 


> part of this problem
> is a "success" in prosecution and consistent(sorta) sentencing.
> 
> speaking of ending endless wars, drug sentences will reduce this a
> fair amount, but significant reduction will require significant
> reduction in sentences...
> 
> which is ok, as anything beyond 5 years is just punative;isolationary
> - not rehabilitation.


	^^^^^ reformist comentary,  not really relevant.




> 
> > 	DUDE! Are you trelling or what??
> 
> Narcos a local example of serious threat, vs. annoyance.
> 
> ""
>  -
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/censor-or-die-the-death-of-mexican-news-in-the-age-of-drug-cartels/2015/12/09/23acf3ae-8a26-11e5-9a07-453018f9a0ec_story.html


	Dude! You keep posting pentagon propaganda??



> 
> 
> 
> >> when people are being killed for exposing corruption or injustice,
> > 	
> > 	speechless
> 
> i don't fear accidentally eating polonium, ever, for example. ;)



	I really can't tell if you're joking or not but my overall
	impression is that you aren't?

	Anyway I'm glad that Snowden denounced the corrupt government
	of Haiti and now lives as a hero in The United States of
	America. With Assange. Or something like that.


> 
> 
> 
> >> all of which made me wonder, what did the every day German or
> >> Italian citizen see before fascism ravaged sanity? what did they
> >> see that felt
> >
> > 	they laughably thought, exactly like you, that  they were
> > 	morally superior to the rest of the world.
> 
> is this where you advocate direct action to inhibit the machine?


	Looks like a sensible and practical solution, so yes.



> 
> 
> > 	has become corrupt? How much to you get paid to troll this
> > 	list?
> 
> the "justice system" is not total farce;

	That is exactly what it is. 


> completely devoid of all
> credibility. extra-judicial summary killings are not common place.
> secrets laws don't ^H^H^H ... ok, part of it quite fucked.


	The fact that the government sometimes follows some
	'procedures' to commit their crimes, such as say mass
	incarcerate people, is pretty much irrelevant AND
	is exactly what makes the system a farce.

	Oh wait. Insert slogan here about 'rule of law'.

> 
> but beyond redemption? this is what i intend by "completely corrupt" -
> unable to dispense justice; only deceit on the scales.

	What do you mean by redemption? The system works exacly as
	designed. 

> 
> 
> 
> > 	No it's acutally propagandists like you who are to blame.
> 
> propaganda! skillful use of this another key factor for thriving
> facism.


	Yes, exactly.



> meant to add that to the list above...
> 
> though perhaps it is your feign of forceful repudiation which is the
> facade?  i enjoy your consistent and copious criticism Juan. one day i
> hope to enjoy your suggestions, too :)
> 
> 
> best regards,





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 10 21:32:07 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 00:32:07 -0500
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_2aUbwsBft8guPmdPgpCFjbMKhJ5_fmrnzxeBf_5z_Vg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 7:50 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> this topic has been on my mind recently,
>
> "You know, It would be a lot easier you just didn't do X"
> "This wouldn't happen if you quit annoying Y"
> "If you accept, Z will pay nicely and protect you."
>
> where X is FOIA requests, security research, PET development, etc.,
>  Y is some powerful entity like FBI, NSA, Verizon, Intel, etc.,
>   and Z is some convenient but forever bound by position requiring a
> clearance and suspension of moral qualms.
>
> when you've got the world to loose (nothing more encompassing than
> your own family!) preservation is near irresistible.  simple fear of
> harm might be compelling enough for the majority to cower compliant,
> even.
> ...

If one goes into it with a fuck it attitude, then nothing can truly
touch them. And no matter what happens, their family will inherit
that ethos.
If one goes to beer and TV, that's what they inherit.
So the real question is, is a relatively blissful beer and TV
subsistance life the only, indeed natural, way of things?
Or is there an alternate reality in the offing?
The only sure way to find out is to say fuck it.
Otherwise just throw in the towel and embrace the bliss.
That's the easy, understandable, and certainly popular way.
Beyond that... tldr, sorta... the deepweb's a better forum,
but I feel ya bro.

If you do throw it in, you can always send some unspent fuckits
this way, if for nothing else, beer and TV, maybe some chickens,
and a barn, with a tractor...
bitcoin:1KJf6tkfs1GPHgyEqAENj9vvS6anYuU1nD




From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 05:13:01 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:13:01 -0500
Subject: North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) Historical
 Summaries, 1967-1974
Message-ID: <CANFTA08djnbnRteU4rhfLKhQNfhKAruAe2kOaex0UM0q11S8dw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.governmentattic.org/18docs/NORADhistSumms_1967-1974.pdf
71.6 MB

Document Title # of Pages | Release Status#
1 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1967 154 Full
2 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1967
3 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1968 286 Partial
4 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1968
s NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1969 292 Partial
6 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1969
7 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1970 192 Partial
8 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1970
9 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1971 238 Partial
10 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1971
11 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1972 210 I Partial
12 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1972
13 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1973 UNK Refer to AFHRA
14 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1973
15 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jan-Jun 1974 UNK Refer to AFHRA '
16 NORAD Historical Summaries for Jul-Dec 1974 I
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 08:18:14 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 08:18:14 -0800
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
In-Reply-To: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>

> There are similar concerns about AMD from Joanna Rutkowska:
> http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/2015/x86_harmful.pdf
> pp 44-45

Yes, I *really* wish there were more AMD64/ARM32/ARM64 experts, most
seem to focus on x86/x64. Even at AMD and ARM.

If Linaro finishes porting LUV-live (including BITS, CHIPSEC, FWTS) from
Intel to AArch64, CHIPSEC will run on ARM, and the UEFI tests will work,
but there won't be any new ARM64-centric security tests, as the few
dozen Intel-centric ones won't apply to ARM boxes. We need some
arch-centric security experts to create a list of security tests, like
Intel ATR team does with chipsec_main security modules.

One interesting thing about AMD64 is -- *I think* -- that some boards
have blob-free options in the coreboot tree, not relying on AGESA
binaries. That is something, for the blob-concerned community. Fewer
blobs than Intel FSP. Unclear which models, and which branches of the
coreboot tree to look at, and if any of those models have modern
supplies of hardware, or are ancient.

There *are* blob-free ports of Libreboot to modern ARM boxes, some
Chromebooks. And Olimex is apparently working on an ARM64 open source
chip, and laptop, that might be interesting.

Also, the SeaBIOS project is adding TPM and other security features in
recently, it'll be interesting to see that BIOS added to some Libreboot
and other systems, for security + configurability, not just the latter.

Hopefully 2016 will get some OEM to bring us a Stateless x86 Laptop, and
a RISC-V-based laptop. And more Novenas.

Lee
RSS: http://firmwaresecurity.com/feed




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 09:22:34 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 09:22:34 -0800
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
In-Reply-To: <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>
References: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/16, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>...
> Yes, I *really* wish there were more AMD64/ARM32/ARM64 experts, most
> seem to focus on x86/x64. Even at AMD and ARM.

have you played with USB Armory yet?  it's my new favorite ARM platform.
 https://github.com/inversepath/usbarmory



> If Linaro finishes porting LUV-live (including BITS, CHIPSEC, FWTS) from
> Intel to AArch64, CHIPSEC will run on ARM, and the UEFI tests will work,
> but there won't be any new ARM64-centric security tests, as the few
> dozen Intel-centric ones won't apply to ARM boxes. We need some
> arch-centric security experts to create a list of security tests, like
> Intel ATR team does with chipsec_main security modules.

the joy of ARM is avoiding all the usual platform UEFI, CHIPSEC, etc!

the parts of ARM which i enjoy more are the secure boot with signed
boot images. of course, if you're not a developer this is less
compelling.

this all uses TrustZone and fuse memory, under the hood:
  http://genode.org/documentation/articles/usb_armory
 https://github.com/inversepath/usbarmory/tree/master/software/secure_boot



> One interesting thing about AMD64 is -- *I think* -- that some boards
> have blob-free options in the coreboot tree, not relying on AGESA
> binaries.

if you find any, let me know!  i don't believe they exist.
also, BIOS security on AMD may be even worse than Intel.
use an external SPI flash programmer, not a built in one, in that case.



> That is something, for the blob-concerned community. Fewer
> blobs than Intel FSP. Unclear which models, and which branches of the
> coreboot tree to look at, and if any of those models have modern
> supplies of hardware, or are ancient.

those blob concerned are going to be increasingly disappointed into
the future. on the other hand, for those with heirloom device funds,
check out Librem:
 https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-13


> There *are* blob-free ports of Libreboot to modern ARM boxes, some
> Chromebooks. And Olimex is apparently working on an ARM64 open source
> chip, and laptop, that might be interesting.

you're aware of Novena, too? :)
 https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena


> Also, the SeaBIOS project is adding TPM and other security features in
> recently, it'll be interesting to see that BIOS added to some Libreboot
> and other systems, for security + configurability, not just the latter.

indeed!


> Hopefully 2016 will get some OEM to bring us a Stateless x86 Laptop, and
> a RISC-V-based laptop. And more Novenas.

i'm playing with stateless lenovo via USB Armory as OS fill via USB.
not quite what you're asking, but might be a nice stop-gap for those
seeking better boot authenticity...


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 09:33:53 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 09:33:53 -0800
Subject: shipping hardware through mail
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Q04hUET-Y_Cj2mZk0D0cHNxhXB121Rwt8j50C5VJ3jvw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/16, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> have you played with USB Armory yet?  it's my new favorite ARM platform.
>  https://github.com/inversepath/usbarmory

since 2014 i don't buy hardware shipped (to me) anymore.

this is obviously more complicated for hardware not readily available,
like USB Armory, if you don't like in Portland. friend and i had
discussed tamper evident shipping strategies to experiment with.

has anyone had success with such experiments, and what technique used?

anyone want to play a game?

:P


best regards,




From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 10:13:23 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:13:23 -0800
Subject: shipping hardware through mail
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Q04hUET-Y_Cj2mZk0D0cHNxhXB121Rwt8j50C5VJ3jvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Q04hUET-Y_Cj2mZk0D0cHNxhXB121Rwt8j50C5VJ3jvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5693F0C3.5040800@gmail.com>


On 01/11/2016 09:33 AM, coderman wrote:
>  friend and i had
> discussed tamper evident shipping strategies to experiment with.
>
> has anyone had success with such experiments, and what technique used?

Joanna's recent Stateless x86 Laptop also addresses this, chapter 7:

http://blog.invisiblethings.org/2015/12/23/state_harmful.html

---snip---

The physical protections mentioned above do not, however, resolve the
problem
of the attackers subverting the laptop hardware at manufacturing or shipment
stages. This includes, naturally, a potentially conspiring laptop vendor.
In order to address this latter problem we – the industry – need to come up
with reliable and simple methods for comparing PCBs with each other. A tool
analogical to ‘diff’, only working for PCBs rather than on files. Such a
tool,
implemented as a software, could e.g. take two (sets of) photos taken by the
user of the two boards to compare. The photos might be taken with an
ordinary
camera, or, in a more sophisticated setup, using X-ray imaging to reveal
also the
internal layer wiring. This inititive has already been proposed by other
researchers
recently (e.g. [3]), so it is not unreasonable to expect some progress
in this area
in the near future.
Admittedly such an approach would not be able to detect sophisticated
attacks
which replace the original laptop board with identically looking one
(connection-
and chip-geometry-wise), yet with different chips. The author thinks
that such
attacks might be very difficult to pull off in practice, probably
extremely pricey
due to the need of manufacturing small series of custom integrated circuits.

---snip---





From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 10:31:09 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:31:09 -0800
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5693F4ED.70605@gmail.com>

Yes, USB Armories are nice. But they're like a dev board, not a laptop.

What I think we need is for Cyperpunk community to join Open Compute
Project and define the Stateless Laptop. A fat, modular laptop that let
you swap out the Intel/ARM dev board of the year, with a USB Armory or
Arduino or other device to act as IPMI BMC. Like the modularity of
blades/racks, but at the laptop level, like old laptops had bays where
you could put in optical drive or battery or hard drive. Maybe multiple
boards, like a cluster of RPI2s. OCP is for enterprises to build cheap
enterprise hardware, there is no effort to build a privacy/secure
citizen-focused device profile for OEMs to use.

> the joy of ARM is avoiding all the usual platform UEFI, CHIPSEC, etc!

Except UEFI is an option for ARM as well.

For AArch32, I presume it's used by APPL/MSFT/other vendors as a form of
DRM to keep others from removing their OS choice from their HW.

On AArch64, apparently it is there because server admins expect the UEFI
pre-OS env for servers, and AArch64 wants to get into the server market.

But unlike x86, UEFI is optional, U-Boot and coreboot are other options.
Linaro offers both UEFI and U-Boot, their UEFI is a fork of Tianocore,
with more ARM updates. I've not studied it closely, but I think there
are multiple blob-free ARM UEFI implemenations, at least in the Linaro
dev boards supported, and you can update the firmware on most dev boards.

Linaro is porting CHIPSEC to ARM (AArch64), as part of their port of LUV
(Linux UEFI Validation). CHIPSEC and BITS are not ported yet.
https://wiki.linaro.org/LEG/Engineering/luvOS

There is a lot of ARM/UEFI development going on in Linux and even
FreeBSD, UEFI is not Intel-centric.

I used to think that U-Boot was ARM-centric, but it also has Intel
support now. So coreboot, U-Boot, and UEFI are all options for both
Intel and ARM.

Last week at the RISC-V workshop, I hear that someone has already (or is
porting) UEFI to RISC-V.

Personally, I like CHIPSEC. It is a firmware vulnerability tool. Without
this tool, it'd be a lot harder to determine security profile of a
device. I wish it was available on other chips (and had chip-centric
security tests so it was useful). I wish CHIPSEC was available for
coreboot and U-Boot, not just BIOS and UEFI.




From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 11:30:50 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 14:30:50 -0500
Subject: Techniques for Tactical Radio Operations
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-VqaYaAYRd-Sr5xHyWYL2aHNseJyigkzVZPbGdgw=M=A@mail.gmail.com>

Army ATP

https://archive.org/details/ATP602x53TechniquesForTacticalRadioOperations
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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Jan 11 04:55:11 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 14:55:11 +0200
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
Message-ID: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Got this from some forum.

https://libreboot.org/faq/#intel
---
Why is the latest Intel hardware unsupported in libreboot? #intel

It is extremely unlikely that any post-2008 Intel hardware will ever be
supported in libreboot, due to severe security and freedom issues; so
severe, that the libreboot project recommends avoiding all modern Intel
hardware.
---

There are similar concerns about AMD from Joanna Rutkowska:

http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/2015/x86_harmful.pdf
pp 44-45

Is there safe off the shelve hardware and sufficiently powerful?
(Don't think android is an option)

This is not intended as flamewar Intel vs AMD vs whatever.




From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 15:27:17 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:27:17 -0500
Subject: New Lies For Old / The Perestroika Deception
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-OPbq8drJa5fsswc8JEYpSUjjRNPeYJUWzoe5p5vxnbg@mail.gmail.com>

If you've never read them or even heard of them, I highly recommend them.
Whether you dismiss him or think there's something worth listening, the
Nosenko / Golitsyn permanently affair changed U.S. intelligence (not to
mention the JFK and Watergate connections).

New Lies For Old: http://www.spiritoftruth.org/newlies4old.pdf
The Perestroika Deception:
http://www.spiritoftruth.org/The_Perestroika_Deception.pdf

In his book Wedge - The Secret War between the FBI and CIA (Knopf, 1994),
Mark Riebling stated that of 194 predictions made in New Lies For Old, 139
had been fulfilled by 1993, 9 seemed 'clearly wrong', and the other 46 were
'not soon falsifiable'.

Golitsyn was a figure of significant controversy in the Western
intelligence community. The military writer General Sir John Hackett, and
the former CIA counter-intelligence director James Angleton identified
Golitsyn as "the most valuable defector ever to reach the West". However,
the official historian for MI5, Christopher Andrew, described him as an
"unreliable conspiracy theorist". Andrew believes that although
intelligence data provided by Golitsyn were reliable, some of his global
political assessments of the Soviet and KGB strategy are questionable.
New Lies for Old

In 1984, Golitsyn published the book *New Lies For Old*, wherein he warned
about a long-term deception <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception> strategy
of seeming retreat from hard-line Communism designed to lull the West into
a false sense of security, and finally economically cripple and
diplomatically isolate the United States
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States>. Among other things, Golitsyn
stated:
"The "liberalization" would be spectacular and impressive. Formal
pronouncements might be made about a reduction in the communist party's
role: its monopoly would be apparently curtailed. An ostensible separation
of powers between the legislative, the executive, and the judiciary might
be introduced. The Supreme Soviet would be given greater apparent power,
and the president of the Soviet Union and the first secretary of the party
might well be separated. The KGB would be "reformed." Dissidents at home
would be amnestied; those in exile abroad would be allowed to return, and
some would take up positions of leadership in government.Sakharov might be
included in some capacity in the government or allowed to teach abroad. The
creative arts and cultural and scientific organizations, such as the
writers' unions and Academy of Sciences, would become apparently more
independent, as would the trade unions. Political clubs would be opened to
nonmembers of the communist party. Leading dissidents might form one or
more alternative political parties.There would be greater freedom for
Soviet citizens to travel. Western and Unitized Nations observers would be
invited to the Soviet Union to witness the reforms in action."

Angleton and Golitsyn reportedly sought the assistance of William F.
Buckley, Jr. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley,_Jr.> (who
once worked for the CIA) in writing *New Lies for Old*. Buckley refused but
later went on to write a novel about Angleton, *Spytime: The Undoing of
James Jesus Angleton*.
The Perestroika Deception

In 1995 he published a book containing purported memoranda attributed to
Golitsyn entitled *The Perestroika
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perestroika> Deception* which claimed:

   - "The [Soviet] strategists are concealing the secret coordination that
   exists and will continue between Moscow and the 'nationalist' leaders of
   [the] 'independent' republics."
   - "The power of the KGB remains as great as ever... Talk of cosmetic
   changes in the KGB and its supervision is deliberately publicized to
   support the myth of 'democratization' of the Soviet political system."
   - "Scratch these new, instant Soviet 'democrats,' 'anti-Communists,' and
   'nationalists' who have sprouted out of nowhere, and underneath will be
   found secret Party members or KGB agents."
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From dan at geer.org  Mon Jan 11 16:43:39 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:43:39 -0500
Subject: FOIA adventures
Message-ID: <20160112004339.586C9A06DE7@palinka.tinho.net>

Federation of American Scientists current news brief, in part:

-----------------8<------------cut-here------------8<-----------------

HOUSE POISED TO PASS FOIA AMENDMENTS

The House of Representatives is expected to approve a new package
of amendments to the Freedom of Information Act this week, in a
bill known as the FOIA Oversight and Implementation Act of 2015.

The sponsors of the bill said it "would strengthen the Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) to increase transparency and accountability
in government, and improve access to government records for citizens.
It amends FOIA to provide for more disclosure of records, through
both proactive disclosure and limitations on the use of exemptions.
[It] also encourages enhanced agency compliance with statutory
requirements and improves the FOIA process for both agencies and
requesters."

The bill would codify a presumption of openness, limit the application
of the exemption for deliberative records, facilitate electronic
submission of FOIA requests, strengthen the Office of Government
Information Services (the FOIA ombudsman), mandate Inspector General
reviews of FOIA processing, and several other steps. Detailed
justification for the bill is provided in a January 7 report from
the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

	http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2016/foia-rept.pdf

The bill was subsequently modified by the House Intelligence Committee
to affirm that its provisions would not require the disclosure of
properly classified information or of information that "would
adversely affect intelligence sources and methods" that are protected.
The term "adversely affect" is not defined but is clearly intended
to limit disclosure.

	http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2016/hr653.pdf

Truth be told, the Freedom of Information Act is a strange law that
seems engineered to create an unresolvable tension if not a complete
stalemate.  The FOIA empowers individual members of the public
(including me and you) to impose a legally binding obligation on a
government agency. But while there are no limits on the number or
type of requests that a requester may submit at no cost, agencies
are nominally supposed to accommodate the demand within a fixed
period and with fixed resources. And though it only takes minutes
to submit a request, the time required by an agency to fulfill even
a simple request is much longer. A sophisticated systems analysis
is not needed to anticipate the growth of the backlogs that have
in fact developed.

In a further conundrum, those agencies that are more responsive to
the FOIA process thereby tend to generate more demand. There is
little point in submitting a FOIA request to the Defense Intelligence
Agency, to pick one example, because they won't produce a substantive
response in this decade. But other agencies that do respond faithfully
are rewarded-- with more requests.

The best way to untangle and realign these conflicting imperatives
is not clear. More proactive disclosure of information might help,
or it might simply shift the burden to more specialized and challenging
requests. But just encouraging and making it easier to file FOIA
requests is probably not the solution.





From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 11:03:20 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:03:20 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>

the #YallQueda group alleged witnesses to improper burning saw events
which precipitated the "illegal" burn at center of this dispute.

thus, FOIA! let's see if we can find confirmation in past patterns of
burn behavior...

'''
Records associated with controlled burns in the districts of Lakeview,
Medford, and Prineville for all years available back to 2010. Records
indicating the planning, execution, and subsequent evaluation of the
controlled burns is requested. Records indicating complaints or
concerns about plans for burning in these districts within this time
frame are also requested.
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/smokeyfired-23386/


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 11:10:24 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:10:24 +0100
Subject: shipping hardware through mail
In-Reply-To: <5693F0C3.5040800@gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Q04hUET-Y_Cj2mZk0D0cHNxhXB121Rwt8j50C5VJ3jvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5693F0C3.5040800@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QCFWb76ZdKmAFyt6EQu_8RV-FC5QoC1t2hDZ6A2287uA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/16, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> The physical protections mentioned above do not, however, resolve the
> problem
> of the attackers subverting the laptop hardware at manufacturing

USB Armory has schematics available, and you can verify the (locked)
bootloader on it as well. verifying these schematics, that's a bit
more difficult. (for another thread :)



> or shipment stages. This includes, naturally, a potentially conspiring laptop vendor.

i get my Armories from Josh, in person, and he's legit. i haven't
ruled out tampering in the bulk shipments he gets, however.
(ongoing... :)



> In order to address this latter problem we – the industry – need to come up
> with reliable and simple methods for comparing PCBs with each other. A tool
> analogical to ‘diff’, only working for PCBs rather than on files.

yup, those are worthwhile techniques. you've got the Gerbers, so to
speak, in USB Armory, and could do a limited run yourself with a local
vendor (local meaning maybe only a couple states away, depending.)


best regards,




From alex at testcore.net  Mon Jan 11 22:15:36 2016
From: alex at testcore.net (Alex Stahl)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:15:36 -0800
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>
 <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>

Actually, the nine servers are not operated by Chaum.  They're operated by "highly skilled 
people in this room who know how to build and run a secure data center".

At least that's what he said at the talk I witnessed where he unveiled it.

Additionally, Chaum's design allows an entity operating one of the servers to introduce their 
own policy - "it's not up to me what policy you want to introduce; the system is neutral".

So, first of all there's Chaum's obvious failure to recognize that in the same room are the 
exact people who could hack into a "secure data center".

Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a message were to traverse a 
network with nodes operated by the US, Canada, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China 
and Japan, it would require the admins from those countries to all agree to decrypt, turning 
the solution into a political - not mathematical - one.

Now, I'm personally hardly a supporter of the idea, and hate the fact that Chaum's idea lends 
credibility to Comey's "smart people just need to work on it" position.  In fact, I consider any 
sort of backdoored system tantamount to treason to cryptography, and antithetical to its 
purpose.

But I do think it's important to debate on the actual facts at hand.

- A


On Saturday, January 9, 2016 3:58:46 PM PST Travis Biehn wrote:
> Dan,
> The 9 servers are operated by Chaum, and is the software and OS config open
> source and 3rd party verifiable as being the same as running on the servers?
> 
> 9 servers will be operated in 9 different jurisdictions, not by 9 separate
> unrelated 'entities'.
> 
> 'Trust us' is just something we've become accustomed to not needing.
> 
> Travis
> 
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016, 11:48 PM  <dan at geer.org> wrote:
> > Tracerneo writes:
> >  | On 7 January 2016 at 05:51, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  | >online privacy
> >  | >encryption scheme
> >  | >backdoor that allows anyone..to have their anonymity and privacy
> > 
> > stripped
> > 
> >  |  altogether
> >  | 
> >  | I don't know, maybe I'm retarded, but this doesn't compute.
> >  | 
> >  | What I'm afraid though, is that such abominations might catch on,
> >  | because people like adopting flawed things, that give them illusion of
> >  | control.
> > 
> > With respect, the stripping involved requires unanimity amongst the
> > nine sites, each much different than the other.  If one is to dismiss
> > Chaum's scheme due to the possibility of 9-way unanimous collusion,
> > then, in like manner, all threshold (split-key) cryptosystems are
> > unacceptable.  And then there is the DNS where the possibility of
> > collusion amongst all root servers would also trigger disavowal of
> > the DNS.
> > 
> > I'm probably missing your point.
> > 
> > --dan


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From alex at testcore.net  Mon Jan 11 23:30:49 2016
From: alex at testcore.net (Alex Stahl)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 23:30:49 -0800
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <56949e1d.e15e8c0a.c81e8.ffffb42a@mx.google.com>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
 <56949e1d.e15e8c0a.c81e8.ffffb42a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure>

Point is the technology is neutral/agnostic to its location and operator - and that a key part 
of the solution is in fact political.

Hell, I'm still wondering who would use such a system in the first place without the 
imposition of regulation?

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 3:31:49 AM PST juan wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:15:36 -0800
> 
> Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:
> > Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a message
> > were to traverse a network with nodes operated by the US, Canada,
> > Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China and Japan,
> 
> 	I think the actual network would be more like washington,
> 	boston, new york, los angeles, london, panama, puerto rico,
> 	marshal islands and maybe brussels.


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From alex at testcore.net  Tue Jan 12 00:13:28 2016
From: alex at testcore.net (Alex Stahl)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:13:28 -0800
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <5694b1e0.c437370a.bf476.53c1@mx.google.com>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure> <5694b1e0.c437370a.bf476.53c1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <27935919.kTB1f5siNz@tc-secure>

Sounds like we're in agreement then that crypto systems with political solutions aren't 
actually crypto solutions at all then?

Anyone else (dis)agree?

On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 4:56:06 AM PST juan wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 23:30:49 -0800
> 
> Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:
> > Point is the technology is neutral/agnostic to its location and
> > operator - and that a key part of the solution is in fact political.
> 
> 	Oh yes, I do see that. And it's based on the
> 	'division-of-power' and 'checks-and-balances' doctrine, which I
> 	don't find especially convincing or effective.
> 
> > Hell, I'm still wondering who would use such a system in the first
> > place without the imposition of regulation?
> 
> 	Well, the leaders of the liberal democracies might be able to
> 	create a few laws and regulations to adopt chaum's system and
> 	save the children from digital terrorism. Or something.
> 
> > On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 3:31:49 AM PST juan wrote:
> > > On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:15:36 -0800
> > > 
> > > Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:
> > > > Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a
> > > > message were to traverse a network with nodes operated by the US,
> > > > Canada, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China and Japan,
> > > 	
> > > 	I think the actual network would be more like washington,
> > > 	boston, new york, los angeles, london, panama, puerto rico,
> > > 	marshal islands and maybe brussels.


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From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 02:36:09 2016
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 02:36:09 -0800
Subject: US Pres. Cand. Marco Rubio Comes Out For Surveillance State,
 Bashes Snowden
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_hWsPSdqHtXVFjTDmVTgSmMbdLe81C6UfjjonD19M9aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_hWsPSdqHtXVFjTDmVTgSmMbdLe81C6UfjjonD19M9aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=iLW3hK+BfLhW184dsyOeHGzcB+OEjDU2Jfe43Z202EExA@mail.gmail.com>

Is he a computer animation?  He doesn't look very realistic.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 12:12 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.dailydot.com/politics/marco-rubio-freedom-act-surveillance/
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqM7IFUasE0
>
> http://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/01/11/1541256/marco-rubio-we-need-to-add-to-us-surveillance-programs
>
> "We are now at a moment in this country where we don't just need to
> keep the authorities we already have, we need to add to these
> programs,"
>
> "I never believed Edward Snowden was a good public servant... that he
> had done a public service for America," Rubio said. "Edward Snowden is
> a traitor. He took our intelligence information and gave it to the
> Chinese and gave it to the Russians. We cannot afford to have a
> commander-in-chief who thinks people like Edward Snowden are doing a
> good public service."
>
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 00:12:57 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 03:12:57 -0500
Subject: US Pres. Cand. Marco Rubio Comes Out For Surveillance State,
 Bashes Snowden
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_hWsPSdqHtXVFjTDmVTgSmMbdLe81C6UfjjonD19M9aw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/marco-rubio-freedom-act-surveillance/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqM7IFUasE0
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/01/11/1541256/marco-rubio-we-need-to-add-to-us-surveillance-programs

"We are now at a moment in this country where we don't just need to
keep the authorities we already have, we need to add to these
programs,"

"I never believed Edward Snowden was a good public servant... that he
had done a public service for America," Rubio said. "Edward Snowden is
a traitor. He took our intelligence information and gave it to the
Chinese and gave it to the Russians. We cannot afford to have a
commander-in-chief who thinks people like Edward Snowden are doing a
good public service."




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 22:31:49 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 03:31:49 -0300
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>
 <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
Message-ID: <56949e1d.e15e8c0a.c81e8.ffffb42a@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:15:36 -0800
Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:


> Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a message
> were to traverse a network with nodes operated by the US, Canada,
> Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China and Japan, 

	I think the actual network would be more like washington,
	boston, new york, los angeles, london, panama, puerto rico,
	marshal islands and maybe brussels.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 00:32:58 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 03:32:58 -0500
Subject: FOIA adventures
In-Reply-To: <20160112004339.586C9A06DE7@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <20160112004339.586C9A06DE7@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28_fhuZN6trGC_qTSu4CFB6gwk1rd3xRr4QjQ_XanM6Yw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 7:43 PM,  <dan at geer.org> wrote:
> The best way to untangle and realign these conflicting imperatives
> is not clear. More proactive disclosure of information might help,
> or it might simply shift the burden to more specialized and challenging
> requests. But just encouraging and making it easier to file FOIA
> requests is probably not the solution.

When the brass of all these agencies are forced due to lack of resources
to sit their own asses down at desk patrol and sift through and shovel
the government attic out into the sun, that's probably better than them
murdering and surveilling and generally venturing around the world.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 11 23:56:06 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 04:56:06 -0300
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
 <56949e1d.e15e8c0a.c81e8.ffffb42a@mx.google.com>
 <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure>
Message-ID: <5694b1e0.c437370a.bf476.53c1@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 23:30:49 -0800
Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:

> Point is the technology is neutral/agnostic to its location and
> operator - and that a key part of the solution is in fact political.

	Oh yes, I do see that. And it's based on the
	'division-of-power' and 'checks-and-balances' doctrine, which I
	don't find especially convincing or effective.

> 
> Hell, I'm still wondering who would use such a system in the first
> place without the imposition of regulation?

	Well, the leaders of the liberal democracies might be able to
	create a few laws and regulations to adopt chaum's system and 
	save the children from digital terrorism. Or something.


> 
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 3:31:49 AM PST juan wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 22:15:36 -0800
> > 
> > Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:
> > > Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a
> > > message were to traverse a network with nodes operated by the US,
> > > Canada, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China and Japan,
> > 
> > 	I think the actual network would be more like washington,
> > 	boston, new york, los angeles, london, panama, puerto rico,
> > 	marshal islands and maybe brussels.
> 
> 




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan 12 03:24:35 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 06:24:35 -0500
Subject: US Pres. Cand. Marco Rubio Comes Out For Surveillance
 State, Bashes Snowden
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_hWsPSdqHtXVFjTDmVTgSmMbdLe81C6UfjjonD19M9aw@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_hWsPSdqHtXVFjTDmVTgSmMbdLe81C6UfjjonD19M9aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1aIx1a-0000wh-65@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

This is how everyone talks after being "read into" secretkeeping
conditions, no matter what they said before then.

After a few years of abiding these conditions, a few begin to send
canary cheeps about needing less secrecy and more openness
but do not go back across that one-way in, no way out border -- for life,
as a primary condition to being read into.

A much smaller number go across the red line of secretkeeping
but become hounded -- for life -- as traitors, or worse. That is also
a condition of being read into the black-hearted world (with corollary
benefits).

These conditions are described in secrecy agreements. At some
point, all presidential candidates are read into secretkeeping or are
advised to speak as though they have.

What this diabolism has led to is a large enterprise worldwide of liars
and dissimulators, leaks, fake leaks, spy stories, gov-com-org spying
and secretkeeping revolving door industry, led by and enforced by
the three branches and their like worldwide.

This world is georaphically borderless but has a near impenetrable border
at the edge of secretkeeping.

There is, as customary of secretkeeping, gulags for violators populated
with pseudo-violator implants to keep track of miscreants who must
be held to a high standard of obedience. repentance and reeducation,
indefinitely, to embrace and intenralize pantopticonic self-censorship,
to speak and behave dissimulatively, ambivalently, duplicitously.

Whistleblower organizations is one type of implanted gulag. Others are
legal, financial and political support systems for whistleblowers and those
wishing to whistleblow, leak, violate oaths, ignore NDAs.

Entrapment of prospective whistleblowers is facilitated by the press
which relishes its privivleges not available to the whistleblower.

El Chapo got hoodwinked by "journalist" Sean Penn, as Snowden
was, as Manning was, as was Sterling, Kiriakou, Brown, Hammond --
the list is getting longer thanks to the perfect entrapment and tracing
device, digital technology.

It will be interesting to see what the great human flood borderless
immigrants will lead to, by that is meant the cellphone seduction
operation, the vast array of cell antennas currently visible for easy
attack, digitally and physically but hardly as easy pickings as
cellphones themselves spying, informing, guiding the Rubios and
Snowdens.

At 03:12 AM 1/12/2016, you wrote:
>http://www.dailydot.com/politics/marco-rubio-freedom-act-surveillance/
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqM7IFUasE0
>http://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/01/11/1541256/marco-rubio-we-need-to-add-to-us-surveillance-programs
>
>"We are now at a moment in this country where we don't just need to
>keep the authorities we already have, we need to add to these
>programs,"
>
>"I never believed Edward Snowden was a good public servant... that he
>had done a public service for America," Rubio said. "Edward Snowden is
>a traitor. He took our intelligence information and gave it to the
>Chinese and gave it to the Russians. We cannot afford to have a
>commander-in-chief who thinks people like Edward Snowden are doing a
>good public service."





From themikebest at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 05:45:10 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 08:45:10 -0500
Subject: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom,
 Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-LrqNnY2P88+DBEJBUeXBxVC6q2ZyPNewT93LFgL0L7A@mail.gmail.com>

Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking intelligence official ever
to defect from the Soviet Bloc, served as acting chief of communist
Romania's espionage service and top adviser to President Nicolae Ceausescu.

The highest-ranking Soviet bloc intelligence official ever to defect to the
West, Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa is at it again. Today, still living
undercover in the United States, the man credited by the CIA as the only
person in the Western world who single-handedly demolished an entire enemy
espionage service--the one he himself managed--takes aim at an even bigger
target: the exotic, widely misunderstood but still astonishingly
influential realm of the Russian-born "science" of disinformation.Indeed,
within these pages, Pacepa, along with his co-author, historian and law
professor Ronald Rychlak, expose some of the most consequential yet largely
unknown disinformation campaigns of our lifetime.

Discover answers to many crucial questions of the modern era:


   - Why, during the last two generations, has so much of the Western world
   turned against its founding faith, Christianity?
   - Why have radical Islam, jihad and terrorism burst aflame after a long
   period of apparent quiescence?
   - Why is naked Marxism increasingly manifesting in America and its NATO
   allies?
   - What really happened to Russia after the Berlin Wall came down?

Like the solution to a giant jigsaw puzzle lacking one crucial piece,
Disinformation authoritatively provides the missing dimension that makes
the chaos of the modern world finally understandable. By its very nature, a
disinformation campaign can work only if the seemingly independent Western
press accepts intentionally fabricated lies and presents them to the public
as truth. Thus, Pacepa and Rychlak also document how the U.S. "mainstream
media's" enduring sympathy for all things liberal-left has made it
vulnerable to--indeed, the prime carrier of--civilization-transforming
campaigns of lying, defamation and historical revisionism that turn reality
on its head.

   - How destroying the reputation of good leaders has been developed into
   a high art and science.
   - How Pope Pius XII --a generation ago the world's most high-profile
   Christian leader, who personally saved countless Jews from Hitler's
   Holocaust--was transformed, through the magic of disinformation, into a
   Nazi sympathizer.
   - How Christianity and Judaism have been targeted for constant
   denigration and defamation through an ongoing campaign of disinformation.
   - How the Soviet bloc planted 4,000 agents of influence in the Islamic
   world, armed with hundreds of thousands of copies of the most infamous
   anti-Semitic book in history, to fan the flames of ancient Arab resentments
   against the U.S. and Israel and sow the seeds of anti-Semitism that would
   later bloom in the form of violence and terror toward Jews and Christians.
   - How the defamatory attacks on American soldiers John Kerry made before
   Congress upon his return from Vietnam--charges later discredited and
   repudiated--were identical to a contemporaneous KGB disinformation campaign
   concocted to turn Americans against their own leaders.
   - How supposedly respectable institutions like the World Council of
   Churches have long been infiltrated and controlled by Russian intelligence.
   - How much of the world came to believe that the U.S. government itself
   masterminded the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
   - How the Soviet Union has been transformed into the first intelligence
   dictatorship in history.
   - How disinformation is still very much alive in the age of Obama,
   remaining a powerful engine in the ongoing socialist transformation of
   America.

All this and much more is meticulously documented in Disinformation, with
the credibility of an eyewitness who was not only there, but actively
involved as a Soviet bloc spy chief--who, thanks to a crisis of conscience,
"left the dark side" and came to America to help shine a light on the
greatest source of political evil of the modern age.

Excerpts posted to:
http://that1archive.neocities.org/excerpts/Disinformation-Pacepa.html
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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Jan 12 12:49:48 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:49:48 -0800
Subject: [cryptome] Re: Former Spy Chief Reveals bullcrap
In-Reply-To: <CA+xZfSAPzP=3hbZuLFCWzoygnQ9ECsm6oHw9gvnty+No2wnbAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-LrqNnY2P88+DBEJBUeXBxVC6q2ZyPNewT93LFgL0L7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+xZfSAPzP=3hbZuLFCWzoygnQ9ECsm6oHw9gvnty+No2wnbAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160112204932.5DD9C6801CB@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On January 12, 2016 8:30:22 AM Lou Novacheck <luigibasco at gmail.com> wrote:

>How much difference is there between an Obama nation and an abomination?

Seriously?  Did you cut and paste that directly from "Faux News Talking 
Points for Idiots"?


> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:45 AM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

>The highest-ranking Soviet bloc intelligence official ever to defect to the 
>West, Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa is at it again.

Sounds like somebody lived longer than he anticipated and The Company's 
maintenance checks have run thin, so he's making shit up in the long 
tradition of saying anything to make a quick buck.

>Why, during the last two generations, has so much of the Western
> world turned against its founding faith, Christianity?

Whoa, waitaminute.  I wasn't aware that there was a "founding faith," 
especially since the establishment clause specifically prohibits it.  In 
That One Document, what's it called...

> [...] Pacepa and Rychlak also document how the U.S. "mainstream media's" 
> enduring sympathy for all things liberal-left

That's definitely some Faux News-level bullshit right there.  I'm not an 
apologist for the democraps, I think all politics in this town country 
sucks.  But, c'mon!  Wtf?

-S





From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Jan 12 13:09:05 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:09:05 -0800
Subject: [cryptome] Re: Former Spy Chief Reveals bullcrap
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08yLO1X9mdFbq0a5EkYSArLafEo0NTuQ1pL6n7+y2Dc8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-LrqNnY2P88+DBEJBUeXBxVC6q2ZyPNewT93LFgL0L7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+xZfSAPzP=3hbZuLFCWzoygnQ9ECsm6oHw9gvnty+No2wnbAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160112204932.5DD9C6801CB@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CANFTA08yLO1X9mdFbq0a5EkYSArLafEo0NTuQ1pL6n7+y2Dc8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160112210849.58EE76800F3@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On January 12, 2016 12:55:15 PM Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> FWIW, the description is from the book itself.

Oh, I could definitely tell.  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you'd written 
that trashy blurb it or agreed with it.  My crankiness threshold is lower 
than normal today (I know, is that even possible!? :p ) and when the Faux 
News goons start posting mindless drivel, it annoys me.

> There's definitely stuff to disagree with in his book, pretty much
> everything that's supposition. What's interesting are the first hand
> accounts of things and admissions. When he over generalizes, it's pretty
> obvious.

> […] I'd check the book out of the library, but I wouldn't
> recommend most people buy it unless the price is slashed at a used book
> store.

Library?  For this?  Nah: torrents via VPN, skim, delete.  Heh.  You're 
doing a public service by posting excerpts so I don't even waste the time 
and bandwidth on it.

-S





From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 05:49:52 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:49:52 +0100
Subject: some bold idiot sold El Chapo bunk kit
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1S-PMbAYaFsyeSVKrr0F+q6wVYN8QB1UbeJ0t-o7JTPwQ@mail.gmail.com>

'''
Penn noted in his article his own concerns about being tracked in the
plane but said that Chapo's son put him at ease by pointing out a "red
scrambler switch below the cockpit controls" that he claimed blocked
ground radar and that an inside man provided them with information
about when the military's high-altitude surveillance plane has been
deployed.

"He has great confidence that there are no unwanted eyes on us," Penn wrote.

Military technology and weaponry expert, Dr. Robert J. Bunker, was confused.

"It doesn't make any sense," Dr. Bunker, Adjunct Faculty for the
Division of Politics & Economics at Claremont Graduate University,
told VICE News. "If this existed it would be on all our planes."

Bunker said he knew of no invisible radar scrambling systems for small
planes, and listed several hypothetical ways it could function before
discounting them by saying they would be in "the realm of 'Dr. Evil'
planning and technology that borders on simple fantasy."

Bunker suggested that somebody may had "sold the narcos a 'high
technology scrambling system'—but it really doesn't work." Another
possibility could be that Penn was told a story to calm his fears.
'''

---

https://news.vice.com/article/the-actress-who-linked-up-sean-penn-with-el-chapo-was-under-surveillance-since-2014

The Actress Who Linked Up Sean Penn with El Chapo Was Under
Surveillance Since 2014

By Nathaniel Janowitz
January 12, 2016 | 1:05 am

Kate del Castillo — the actress who took Sean Penn to interview El
Chapo — had already been under surveillance for her links to the drug
lord for 14 months before the meeting took place in a mountain
hideout.

In the wake of the kingpin's recapture on Friday, Mexican authorities
said that the monitoring of contacts with actors and producers aided
the manhunt launched in the the wake of his tunnel escape from prison
in July. An unnamed official told The Associated Press that the Penn
interview in October directly led to an operation that almost caught
up with him then.

Related: Sean Penn Interviewed El Chapo – And It Helped Lead to the
Drug Lord's Capture

Now El Universal has published details of the surveillance of Del
Castillo it claims was well-established before his escape from the
Altiplano maximum-security prison and continued after he was a
fugitive. It said their contact included letters exchanged while he
was in jail, as well as several meetings between the actress and
Guzmán's lawyers prior to their mountain encounter.

The article is backed up by photos purported to be taken before and
during the meetings, as well as snaps of her and Penn meeting Guzmán's
associates upon arrival in Mexico on October 2 on their way to
interview El Chapo.

The paper said the surveillance of Del Castillo began in August 2014.
El Chapo reportedly instructed one of his lawyers, Andrés Granados
Flores, to contact her about making a biopic about his life. Through
Guzmán's legal team the actress and drug lord wrote to each other
regarding the project.

Related: How Kate del Castillo Became the Rebel Celebrity Who Took
Sean Penn to 'Chapo'

The first face-to-face meeting between Del Castillo and Granados
reportedly took place on June 16, 2015 — still nearly a month before
Chapo's jailbreak — in an upscale restaurant named the San Ángel Inn,
located in the south of Mexico City. The paper claimed it has seen
photographs from the meeting showing the actress wearing a black
blouse and a white skirt, while the lawyer wore a black suit.

El Universal said that Del Castillo and Granados met again after Chapo
was on the run, on September 25, in the Western City of Guadalajara. A
published photograph purports to show her after arriving on the
airline Aeroméxico, flight 783, from Los Angeles.

Another from the following day claims to show her sitting in a
restaurant with Granados and another member of Guzmán's legal team,
Óscar Manuel Gómez Núñez.

The report said she saw the lawyers twice on that occasion. First for
dinner and the following morning when they gave her a phone with some
sort of special features that would allow her to communicate directly
with Joaquin Guzmán.

The timing of this meeting appears to be reinforced by Sean Penn's
Rolling Stone article in which he says that on September 28 he got
confirmation from his contact with Del Castillo that he would be able
to meet Chapo.

Penn wrote that he and Del Castillo flew from Los Angeles to an
unnamed "city in mid-Mexico" in a chartered plane four days later.

According to the article in El Universal, the city was Guadalajara and
the plane was a Hawker 900XP private jet. The paper published a photo
it said was of the actors meeting the lawyer. From there they
reportedly went to the Hotel Villa Ganza where they registered,
dropped off their equipment, and left.

>From Guadalajara the paper cited the surveillance tracking the two
actors in two vans to Tepic, the capital of Nayarit state. Penn also
said they travelled to another city that he did not name.

Both accounts say the group boarded two private planes — El Universal
says one was white and the other yellow — at a tourist resort with a
private airstrip that took them into the Golden Triangle mountain
region.

According to Penn's article, they were accompanied by one of El
Chapo's sons, Alfredo Guzmán.

Penn noted in his article his own concerns about being tracked in the
plane but said that Chapo's son put him at ease by pointing out a "red
scrambler switch below the cockpit controls" that he claimed blocked
ground radar and that an inside man provided them with information
about when the military's high-altitude surveillance plane has been
deployed.

"He has great confidence that there are no unwanted eyes on us," Penn wrote.

Military technology and weaponry expert, Dr. Robert J. Bunker, was confused.

"It doesn't make any sense," Dr. Bunker, Adjunct Faculty for the
Division of Politics & Economics at Claremont Graduate University,
told VICE News. "If this existed it would be on all our planes."

Bunker said he knew of no invisible radar scrambling systems for small
planes, and listed several hypothetical ways it could function before
discounting them by saying they would be in "the realm of 'Dr. Evil'
planning and technology that borders on simple fantasy."

Bunker suggested that somebody may had "sold the narcos a 'high
technology scrambling system'—but it really doesn't work." Another
possibility could be that Penn was told a story to calm his fears.

After the flight, they arrived in the Golden Triangle. After a long
road trip they met El Chapo for seven hours of chatting, tequila, and
tacos, before agreeing to meet eight days later for a two-day long
interview.

This interview never took place because three days after Chapo, Penn
and Del Castillo met, the kingpin narrowly slipped a navy operation to
capture him.

An unnamed source in Mexican federal law enforcement told The
Associated Press that it was the Penn interview that triggered that
operation.

Some, however, are not so sure.

Mexican columnist Raymundo Riva Palacio wrote on Monday on the website
ejecentral that the authorities had already identified Chapo's precise
location in the Sierra before the interview.

While he says that surveillance of Del Castillo would have provided
useful information in the manhunt for the fugitive after his escape,
her presence in the area alongside a major movie star actually
postponed the operation to try and capture him.

"The US requested that the operation to capture him be postponed 72
hours," Riva Palacio told VICE News, insisting he had two reliable
Mexican sources confirming this. "My theory is that they are putting
the emphasis on the actors because they are protecting somebody,
perhaps undercover people."

In the end Chapo escaped that operation and was not tracked down until
Friday, January 8, in the northern city of Los Mochis, Sinaloa.

A gopro video was released on Monday showing the initial stage of the
raid on a safe house where Guzmán was hiding. Gun shots and arrests
take place for 15 minutes as they search for El Chapo in the video.

The drug lord had slipped out of the house into the city's sewage
system through a hole tunnel reportedly built in a closet. He was
caught hours after resurfacing, stealing a vehicle, and attempting to
flee the city.

Penn's article created a major stir when it was published on Saturday
night. The star said he had "nothin' to hide" in a brief email
exchange with The Associated Press. Del Castillo has yet to make any
comment at all, other than to tell a reporter from Univision,
"Everything when and how it should be. Don't call me again."




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 05:55:21 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:55:21 +0100
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <27935919.kTB1f5siNz@tc-secure>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure>
 <5694b1e0.c437370a.bf476.53c1@mx.google.com>
 <27935919.kTB1f5siNz@tc-secure>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1S11x9RjDurE6DQ2tP7Cg5hFn+npgCfMbdfcPziWabh6g@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/12/16, Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:
> Sounds like we're in agreement then that crypto systems with political
> solutions aren't actually crypto solutions at all then?

"Cryptosystems with Political Solutions are Poisonous Impostors"




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Jan 12 15:42:13 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:42:13 -0800
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <56958F55.2000306@riseup.net>

oshwm wrote:
> You're kidding us right?
> I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind Cloudflare :D

I was going to check that. After all, the "Dear Putin" letter signing
site that was created to ostensibly apologize to Vlad for all the
terrible things the West says about him is hosted by cloudflare. I can
hear echos of dunning voices from the hallowed halls of the House
Un-American Activities Committee now.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked...



> What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
> freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
> website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
> other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
> the real personas.
>
> Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a piss-take
> to me.
>
>
> On 12/01/16 21:28, John Young wrote:
>> Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
>>
>> https://securetheinternet.org/
>>
>> Via Henry Baker, Cryptography List
>>
>>
> "

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From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 07:06:56 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:06:56 +0100
Subject: mobile digital forensics laboratory
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Tixna+mfgpT+hm9h93qX+BXm__JEV3LPnTeJXoMVKdJQ@mail.gmail.com>

looking for details on capabilities and components of "mobile digital
forensic laboratories":
'''
The raid, named Operation Pleiades, resulted in both targets being
detained. In addition, law enforcement officials used mobile labs to
inspect seized evidence.
'''
 - http://www.csoonline.com/article/3021812/security/europol-confirms-raid-against-ddos-extortion-ring-dd4bc.html


any foreign or domestic pointers?


best regards,




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan 12 13:28:19 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 16:28:19 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
Message-ID: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet

https://securetheinternet.org/

Via Henry Baker, Cryptography List





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 12:15:12 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 17:15:12 -0300
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <27935919.kTB1f5siNz@tc-secure>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459982.3lZuYZRVEL@tc-secure>
 <5694b1e0.c437370a.bf476.53c1@mx.google.com>
 <27935919.kTB1f5siNz@tc-secure>
Message-ID: <56955f14.454d370a.dd4d3.1c99@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 00:13:28 -0800
Alex Stahl <alex at testcore.net> wrote:

> Sounds like we're in agreement 

We are.

> then that crypto systems with> political solutions aren't actually
> crypto solutions at all then?
> 
> Anyone else (dis)agree?




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Jan 12 07:47:09 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 17:47:09 +0200
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160112154709.GC2572@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 09:22:34AM -0800, coderman wrote:
> > One interesting thing about AMD64 is -- *I think* -- that some boards
> > have blob-free options in the coreboot tree, not relying on AGESA
> > binaries.
> 
> if you find any, let me know!  i don't believe they exist.
> also, BIOS security on AMD may be even worse than Intel.
> use an external SPI flash programmer, not a built in one, in that case.
> 

Does libreboot support modern AMD?

Didn't see it in supported hardware and in the faq they mention only
intel.




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan 12 15:39:55 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 18:39:55 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <E1aJ8UX-0005Xe-2Y@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

There are indeed similarities of the crypto advocacy crowd with
advocates of guns, which figures because both are classified
as munitions and serve similar purposes.

Gun control could be linked to crypto control, and some cpunks,
in early days at least, emphasized the parallel. "My cold dead hands"
was invoked for gun self-protection and passphrase for privacy
protection.

Other parallels can be seen between cryptographers and weapons
manufacturers pursuing commercial, governmental and user
markets with sales pitches tuned to each category. Dual use
an essential feature, duplicity and dual hats too.

Could be more coming in regulation of cryptographers like gun
manufacturers and dealers. And best, the black market and
underground and warfare tools merchants and of course
informants and betrayers.

Licensed crypto is already at hand througn chips, devices,
algos, OSes and not a few deceptive insertions and implants
emplaced while argument about the crypto war diverts attention.

More crypto cops, overt and covert, sure, why not, that has been
around for a while, almost surely from the beginning of crypto
not to say cpunks and the cryptography lists.




At 05:16 PM 1/12/2016, you wrote:
>You're kidding us right?
>I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind Cloudflare :D
>
>What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
>freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
>website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
>other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
>the real personas.
>
>Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a piss-take
>to me.
>
>
>On 12/01/16 21:28, John Young wrote:
> > Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
> >
> > https://securetheinternet.org/
> >
> > Via Henry Baker, Cryptography List
> >
> >
>
>





From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Jan 12 15:43:59 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 18:43:59 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56958B50.9050302@openmailbox.org>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
 <56958320.0b50370a.d61c.1384@mx.google.com>
 <56958B50.9050302@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <E1aJ8YR-0002Xv-7C@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

And Intel, Sun and Grateful Dead sponsoring cpunks.

At 06:25 PM 1/12/2016, you wrote:
>ha ha, this is like facebook and Google sponsering LetsEncrypt :D
>
>On 12/01/16 22:48, juan wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:16:52 +0000
> > oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >
> >> You're kidding us right?
> >> I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind
> >> Cloudflare :D
> >
> >
> >       https://securetheinternet.org/#signers
> >
> >       So you missed the fact that cloudflare is one of the signers!!
> >       =)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
> >> freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
> >> website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
> >> other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
> >> the real personas.
> >>
> >> Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a
> >> piss-take to me.
> >>
>
>





From admin at pilobilus.net  Tue Jan 12 16:22:53 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:22:53 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56958F55.2000306@riseup.net>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org> <56958F55.2000306@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <569598DD.6000801@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/12/2016 06:42 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> oshwm wrote:
>> You're kidding us right? I haven't even read the contents of
>> the site as its sat behind Cloudflare :D
> 
> I was going to check that. After all, the "Dear Putin" letter
> signing site that was created to ostensibly apologize to Vlad
> for all the terrible things the West says about him is hosted
> by cloudflare. I can hear echos of dunning voices from the
> hallowed halls of the House Un-American Activities Committee
> now.

"People are notoriously bad at estimating risks."
- - Anonymous

:o)


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 14:48:59 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:48:59 -0300
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <56958320.0b50370a.d61c.1384@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:16:52 +0000
oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> You're kidding us right?
> I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind
> Cloudflare :D


	https://securetheinternet.org/#signers

	So you missed the fact that cloudflare is one of the signers!!
	=) 


> 
> What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
> freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
> website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
> other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
> the real personas.
> 
> Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a
> piss-take to me.
> 




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 11:38:01 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:38:01 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Classifed info [in FOIA]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Rq4zGUX5VYYVOM=DxQvH0VwwjXC=Z5Bj-rg17BJ8WEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Rq4zGUX5VYYVOM=DxQvH0VwwjXC=Z5Bj-rg17BJ8WEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TB4xRD2Z6BAqMLMgu6o0Xm6XeNVzXoYVzb4BO+T8cm+Q@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "James S. Tyre" <jstyre at jstyre.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 10:48:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Classifed info
To: FOI-L at listserv.syr.edu

Fun (if only in hindsight) and true story.

In the mid-eighties, the FBI and Naval Intelligence raided my law
office, sans warrant, claiming that I was in possession of classified
docs and that I could be prosecuted under the espionage act.

I did indeed have certain classified docs, but ....

At the time I obtained them, I got them through a valid FOIA request
made a day after they were declassified.  So it wasn't exactly a
secret that I had them, and I had obtained them completely legally.
But then the gov't went "whoops, we didn't really mean to declassify
them."  And then, while copies were in my possession, the docs were
reclassified.

Eventually, the gov't agreed that I could keep the docs, and that was
pretty much that.  But it was certainly interesting for a while.

(Everything about this was political, but deliberately I'm not giving
enough detail from which anyone can infer what the politics were.)

--
James S. Tyre [...]
jstyre at jstyre.com
Special Counsel, Electronic Frontier Foundation




From david250 at videotron.ca  Tue Jan 12 18:52:16 2016
From: david250 at videotron.ca (David Bernier)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 21:52:16 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
 without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-CSgNKLGmzxdTWcS=xC721-f5FqOyh=4e+Q4Cd5M4Y-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOLP8p5ojKDkCdF29T6PYgJ6NF8htcRGcMPGmzHvp-kdgGg1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-CSgNKLGmzxdTWcS=xC721-f5FqOyh=4e+Q4Cd5M4Y-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5695BBE0.20606@videotron.ca>

Very interesting, grarpamp.

On 01/10/2016 04:38 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:38 AM
> Subject: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
> without backdoors
> To: "cryptography at metzdowd.com" <cryptography at metzdowd.com>
> 
> 
> This is an old idea, but perhaps now there might be more reason to
> consider it.  I currently call this idea Alias.  Here's my dumb
> data-dump on it.  Thoughts?
> 
> Alias is a concept for a TOR-like Internet protocol supporting free
> speech and user privacy, but without encouraging the worst evil
> behaviors.  Exit Nodes are replaced with Public Gateways, which
> sponsor users.  The definition of evil behavior is defined by the
> Public Gateways and operators of routing nodes.  Users would be
> encouraged to use good behavior, as their public alias would develop a
> reputation over time.  Anonymity would be protected, but a user's
> Public Gateway and any routing node could refuse to route data for
> aliases with poor reputations.
> 
> TOR was created with a lofty goal: to support free speech.
> Unfortunately, TOR has drawn attention from governments and law
> enforcement, as it could be used to protect some of the worst
> activities, such as contract killing, and the slave trade.  TOR Exit
> Node operators generally follow a strict policy of never looking at
> traffic, because simply observing this traffic would require Exit Node
> operators in most countries to regularly contact law enforcement to
> report crimes.  PrivaTegrity is an alternative protocol to TOR, which
> aims to find a balance between protecting free speech and protecting
> the world from the worst behavior.  Unfortunately, the PrivaTegrity
> inserts encryption backdoors.
> 
> Alias Design:
> 
> This is very much a dumb idea in the half-baked stage.  Feedback and
> ideas are welcome.
> 
> Alias would be a fork of TOR, and route Internet traffic from a user's
> machine through a couple of Routing Nodes, to a Public Gateway, which
> replaces the Exit Node.  The Public Gateway would have an account for
> the user, under a pseudonym used on Alias network by the user, called
> his alias.  The Public Gateway should keep an email contact address
> for the user, similar to regular accounts on various web sites.
> 
> In Alias, user aliases would have trackable reputations, and the
> reputations of user aliases would be combined into a reputation for a
> Public Gateway.  At a minimum, incident reports would be used to
> compute user reputations.  Exactly how this works is TBD, but the goal
> is to cause gateways with very poor reputations to be effectively
> blacklisted by routing nodes, and for users with poor reputations to
> be dropped by reputable gateways.  Users could move their alias from
> one gateway to another when needed, but they could not erase what
> their previous gateway knows about there identity.  The Gateway would
> not know a user's location, and in many cases will know nothing other
> than the user's reputation and email address.  When requested by a
> government authority, at a minimum, a gateway can drop support for a
> user alias, causing that alias to try to find a new gateway that will
> agree to sponsor it.

[...]

Just today, I read a Forbes story from late 2013 where an
anonymous had set up a web-site featuring Bounties in
bitcoins for assassination of named public figures, which
goes with the Crypto Anarchy "credo" (sometimes).

Source:

Nov 18, 2013 @ 08:30 AM
Meet The 'Assassination Market' Creator Who's Crowdfunding Murder With
Bitcoins

Link:

<
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/18/meet-the-assassination-market-creator-whos-crowdfunding-murder-with-bitcoins/#2715e4857a0b50146e921ac1
> .

David




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 12 14:16:52 2016
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:16:52 +0000
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>

You're kidding us right?
I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind Cloudflare :D

What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
the real personas.

Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a piss-take
to me.


On 12/01/16 21:28, John Young wrote:
> Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
> 
> https://securetheinternet.org/
> 
> Via Henry Baker, Cryptography List
> 
> 

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From david250 at videotron.ca  Tue Jan 12 19:17:32 2016
From: david250 at videotron.ca (David Bernier)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:17:32 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
 without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-CSgNKLGmzxdTWcS=xC721-f5FqOyh=4e+Q4Cd5M4Y-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOLP8p5ojKDkCdF29T6PYgJ6NF8htcRGcMPGmzHvp-kdgGg1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-CSgNKLGmzxdTWcS=xC721-f5FqOyh=4e+Q4Cd5M4Y-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5695C1CC.5040805@videotron.ca>



On 01/10/2016 04:38 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 9:38 AM
> Subject: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and PrivaTegrity
> without backdoors
> To: "cryptography at metzdowd.com" <cryptography at metzdowd.com>
> 
> 
> This is an old idea, but perhaps now there might be more reason to
> consider it.  I currently call this idea Alias.  Here's my dumb
> data-dump on it.  Thoughts?
> 
> Alias is a concept for a TOR-like Internet protocol supporting free

[...]

> Conclusion: Alias seems to provide better protection of free speech in
> this case.
> 
> Threat Case: A Single Government Blackmails the Rest
> 
> Suppose one of the governments involved decides to use it’s influence
> in the protocol to blackmail one or more of the other governments
> involved into agreeing to some political agenda.
> 
> TOR: If the government were the USA, it might have unique powers to
> track users through the TOR network.  If true, the USA could refuse to
> reveal a French suspected terrorist unless the French government share
> mass surveillance data collected on it’s citizens.  Is this sort of
> thinking too paranoid?
[...]

It would usually be approached through Intelligence and/or
Diplomatic channels.

If it looks like the US is attempting to extort French surveillance data
on French citizens, in exchange for the name of the French terrorist,
I'd expect France to be disappointed at the USA, with the French looking
for alternative Intelligence sources: Italians, Moroccans, Egyptians,
Russians, etc.

IOW, it's not good for the US to over-play its hand.

But then, it all depends on the "state of play" ...
Sill,  diplomacy is reciprocal  aide , or reciprocal "retaliations",
etc. etc.

One is left to wonder about the actual National Interests,
and many "forces": lobbies/factions/States/regions ,
act on Governments at the same time.

I believe History offers a Guide to Diplomacy.

David





From david250 at videotron.ca  Tue Jan 12 19:43:55 2016
From: david250 at videotron.ca (David Bernier)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:43:55 -0500
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>

On 01/10/2016 07:24 PM, juan wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:36:43 -0800
> coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/10/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> now USA in a state of perpetual war,
>>>
>>> 	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking about.
[snip]

>>>> all of which made me wonder, what did the every day German or
>>>> Italian citizen see before fascism ravaged sanity? what did they
>>>> see that felt
>>>
>>> 	they laughably thought, exactly like you, that  they were
>>> 	morally superior to the rest of the world.
>>
>> is this where you advocate direct action to inhibit the machine?
> 
> 
> 	Looks like a sensible and practical solution, so yes.

Coderman?

Re:
"What did the every day German or Italian citizen see before fascism
ravaged sanity?"

[ They or some fration saw the Reds ]


There were labour, socialist, soviet communist, and anarcho-syndicalist
movements up to and including the 1930s and the Spanish Civil War.

And there was the October 1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, and
subsequent Civil War between Reds and White Russians, plus foreign
interventions in Russia/USSR.

My interpretation is that the Fascism in Europe (in Belgium 1939, for
instance) was at least in part a reaction to the movements and
activities of the Communists, Bolsheviks,  Marxists, Socialists and
Anarcho-syndicalists.


David




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 12 15:25:04 2016
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:25:04 +0000
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <56958320.0b50370a.d61c.1384@mx.google.com>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
 <56958320.0b50370a.d61c.1384@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56958B50.9050302@openmailbox.org>

ha ha, this is like facebook and Google sponsering LetsEncrypt :D

On 12/01/16 22:48, juan wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:16:52 +0000
> oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> 
>> You're kidding us right?
>> I haven't even read the contents of the site as its sat behind
>> Cloudflare :D
> 
> 
> 	https://securetheinternet.org/#signers
> 
> 	So you missed the fact that cloudflare is one of the signers!!
> 	=) 
> 
> 
>>
>> What a great idea tho, how to validate your list of cranky privacy
>> freaks for economic and political targetting - get them to go to a
>> website via cloudlfare, collate identifying markers and crosscheck to
>> other sites that go via Cloudflare and use it to profile and identify
>> the real personas.
>>
>> Maybe I just need a stronger tinfoil hat but this seems like a
>> piss-take to me.
>>

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 12 20:15:56 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:15:56 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:43:55 -0500
David Bernier <david250 at videotron.ca> wrote:

> On 01/10/2016 07:24 PM, juan wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:36:43 -0800
> > coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On 1/10/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> now USA in a state of perpetual war,
> >>>
> >>> 	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking
> >>> about.

> [snip]


	So, yes. I'm waiting for coderman to make some updated
	political comment after hopefully having updated his knowledge
	of american wars. 


	

	
	

	







From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:19:10 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:19:10 -0500
Subject: FOIPA: Federal Law Enforcement Covertly Surveilling Your Neighborhood
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti295be3H+-X-k8NXMVDH8qr6r_fJ77PEtkivJ02-x1jD4A@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/jan/12/alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-grease-trail-seattle-/
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8605281&cid=51289269




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:19:58 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:19:58 -0500
Subject: French To Ban Strong Crypto, Lawmakers Showing They Care
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-VFLKDE8dtUWy0=yL2Bo6jEz1vwHV29PZDynXtNdkAwQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Digital Republic" bill criticizes the effects of strong encryption on
state security forces. "France must take the initiative and force
device manufacturers to take into consideration the imperative of
access for law enforcement officers

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/40nmzg/matthew_green_i_used_to_want_policymakers_to_care/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:20:18 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:20:18 -0500
Subject: Won't Someone Please Think Of The... Dead People
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-H-1NCO=nOuxb3ZF=S8OAEbYa_YfbdABqy85TBmRQ+0A@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2682051-Bill.html
http://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article54138900.html




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 00:20:40 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 03:20:40 -0500
Subject: Intel's Clear Linux... Open and Reproducible, Or Suspect Honey Trap
 For LINUX Fanboys...
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_K8+bYQ34BJqpyDXHT=YUpQUehCUngxgHvUxcL0rPs8g@mail.gmail.com>

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/01/12/1724210/intels-clear-linux-distribution-offers-fast-out-of-the-box-performance
https://clearlinux.org/
Comes complete with Spyware and Cloud...




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 01:22:22 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:22:22 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R2q166W_pwJwA67VT4peV+RhCjYb-Dk+b0qauzrSV+Dw@mail.gmail.com>

new FOIA: all revisions of the OIG report on Brandon Mayfield:
'''
All versions of the document "A Review of the FBI's Handling of the
Brandon Mayfield Case - Office of the Inspector General, Oversight and
Review Division January 2006", including mandatory declassification
review (MDR) under E.O. 13526 of any materials previously deemed
sensitive. Note the significant time elapsed since original
publication of this document when considering sensitivity of
previously withheld materials, in addition to the significant public
interest in this case and its ramifications. Thank you!
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/maydayfield-23421/


original report at:
 https://oig.justice.gov/special/s0601/exec.pdf


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 01:32:52 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:32:52 +0100
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/13/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> 	So, yes. I'm waiting for coderman to make some updated
> 	political comment after hopefully having updated his knowledge
> 	of american wars.

Guantanamo is closing!  (that's not nothing, right? :)

regarding american wars, this is a tale longer than time to tell it...
  instead, this treatise which i enjoyed for through provocation,
   regardless of how your view its correctness:

"On the Moral Superiority"
 - http://www.gatchev.info/blog/?p=1017

---

On the Moral Superiority

There are a lot of news about the leaked Afghan War documents. And a
lot of descriptions of Wikileaks as a threat to the US national and
military security.

Which reminds me a lot of things.

The Cold War

Most Westerners are convinced that Ronald Reagan won it, by raising
the military expenses of USA to a level that the Soviet bloc could not
afford. This is not the first gross Western misconception about the
communism – but is a very important one.

Every single penny in the cost of everything, be that a toaster, tank
or ICBM, is eventually spent on someone’s salary. If you can pay
peanuts, you can produce tanks and ICBMs for peanuts… That was the
case in the Soviet Union. The head of an ICBM project there was paid
about one tenth of the salary of a floor sweeper in an US ICBM
project. And, living in the Soviet Union, he could not run away for a
higher salary. In fact, the Soviet Union could push the military
spending to a level that USA would not be able to afford, just because
they spent so much less per a result than the Americans. (A hint for
the future: watch China.)

Why, then, the Soviets did not win the Cold War, if it was so easy?

Because they could not achieve moral superiority over USA. An
unrealistically sounding answer – if you haven’t lived in a communist
country, and don’t know the situation from inside.

Immediately after the WWII we, who remained in the Soviet bloc, saw
our stand against the Western bloc as a patriotic one. We saw that the
Soviet order was horrible, but the order in the Western bloc was also
not very nice. We had Lavrentiy Beria etc., but the West had Barry
Goldwater etc. The Soviet Union orchestrated aggressions and coups all
around the world, but the U.S. did the same. Where there is no clear
“good” and “evil”, there is only “us” and “them” – and, of course,
everyone is with “us”, not with “them”.

Things changed drastically under John Kennedy, and even more under
Lyndon Johnson. The censorship and the anti-communist witch hunt in
the US disappeared. The civil liberties were strengthened. And despite
the Iron Curtain, this was noticed in the Soviet bloc. Suddenly,
“them” ceased to be about as bad as “us”. We saw that “them” is the
Good, and “us” is the Evil. We started believing that “them” means
freedom, sincerity, truth, decency, while “us” means lies, hypocrisy,
and life in a prison.

The West had achieved a moral superiority.

But how this translated into a Cold War victory?

You can’t run away from a Soviet country, no matter how much you
despise it. However, if you are forced to remain there, you lose your
initiative, inventiveness and desire to work, create and win. And,
most of all, you lose your trust in the system, and your hope for a
better future… The most important engine of the economics, the impulse
of the people to work and create, went dry. The economics continued
going for some time, supported by the effect of the scale, but
eventually stuck. And to our perceptions of the West added one more –
“wealth”. Actually, a “deserved, decently obtained wealth”.

Even the top Soviet functionaries had lost their trust in the
communist system. Publicly, every time they spoke, they acclaimed the
Soviet superiority. Privately, they didn’t believed a word from what
they said. They regarded everyone who believed that the Soviets can be
superior in any way as idiots, brainwashed by the lies they themselves
fabricated. When told: “We can beat the West in the arms and space
race”, they didn’t believed it, despite the calculations they were
shown, and despite that they had nearly done it during the 60s. “If
you believe one thing, and the Western experts believe otherwise, then
it is them who must be right. There is no way you can be right, there
is no way for us to be the better. It is them who speaks the truth,
and us who cheats and lies.” This is what everyone was convinced in –
even the Party core and top.

The military buildup and the “Space Wars” of Ronald Reagan merely
coincided with the final stages of the Soviet economic deterioration.
The rot was clearly seen from inside even before Reagan, and many
people understood it is a matter only of time before the Soviet system
falls apart economically. (Most of us expected this fall to come
later, but to be a catastrophic one: happily, we were wrong.) The
military race could have speeded it up a bit, but I doubt even this –
the Soviet bloc practically didn’t tried to increase the military
spending in order to counter Reagan. There was no use in doing this.
The Cold War was already won by the West, and not in the arms race.

It was the moral superiority that won it. That rendered the Soviet
“army” unwilling to fight – in fact, willing to desert at first
opportunity, and expecting and hoping to lose… The result was the only
possible one. The Soviet bloc simply disappeared into the thin air,
without a single gunshot against the West.

Al-Qaeda

As a student, I saw once a man who was bent on organizing a crusade
against the evil capitalism. He tried to recruit for it every single
person he saw. And always failed… Instead of on the top of some
government body, the system had placed him in a mental clinic. Despite
that this obsession was his only peculiarity.

This is how much the Soviet system believed in itself, facing the
Western moral superiority. In a country where everyone publicly called
for the fall of the capitalism, this man hadn’t seen in his life a
single person who would actually fight the capitalism. Or even believe
that this is a sane idea…

If Osama bin Laden was in a situation similar to the Soviet bloc, he
shouldn’t be able to find a single follower. And the Arab countries
are not as anti-Western as the Soviet bloc was, so his task should
have been even tougher. How is that he found thousands of followers?

Some people believe this to be an effect of the Islam. However, the
communism is a religion also, and one that is much less tolerant of
everything decent than even the darkest sects of the Islam. In
addition, 15% of my country’s population is Muslims, and that madman
could not recruit among them, too. Also, before Osama there were many
other militant Muslims who went on a jihad against the West, and none
found a significant number of supporters. Despite that the US were
supporting then Israel as firmly as now, etc… Obviously, it is the
situation that changed.

The people from Western Europe would not go on a jihad. However,
during the last decade their opinion on the USA plummeted, too. Twenty
years ago, if you were an American in Berlin, you would be revered,
and more honored than the Berliners around… Not anymore. Now, you can
often hear: “The country that lied to the entire world about the Iraqi
WMD? That created and still maintains the Guantanamo gulag? That ran
the Abu Ghraib prison? That bombed to destruction the civilians in
Faluja? That shot the Italian hostage resque mission? That killed the
Reuters journalists in Baghdad? That photographs, fingerprints and
tracks every visitor like a criminal? That created the ECHELON system?
That is killing in Afghanistan maybe more civilians than terrorists?…
If it is decent, then Stalin is, too. This country is a blemish to the
humankind.”

Of course, the real criminal is the war itself. In a war, no involved
army can avoid such things. The war always de-humanizes the people.
And sometimes you can’t avoid wars… However, a moral country is
expected to not lie to the other countries, in order to involve them,
too, in a non-justified war. To not organize gulags. And when its
soldiers perform some nasty crime, to not try first to cover it.
Otherwise, this country starts being considered by the entire world as
an immoral, cheating and lying one. If it is bigger and stronger, it
earns the “Evil Empire” nickname, and deservedly. All of its moral
superiority, earned with bitter, painful and long-lasting sacrifices,
and often paid with the lives of many of its best people, quickly
evaporates.

The worst comes when this country continues to pretend that it is the
mainstay of the world decency, morality and human rights. These
pretensions make me, who has lived twenty-odd years in a communist
country, instantly remember another country. One that pretended that
it is the source of all human rights in the world, but actually was a
big prison. The Soviet Union… Yes, there are differences. But not ones
that matter when it comes to moral image and leadership.

What about Wikileaks?

What Wikileaks does is exposing the indecent and immoral things done,
in this case, by the US army. When Adm. Mike Mullen says that this
risks the lives of American soldiers or Afghan informants, he surely
doesn’t believe himself – the leaked documents do not contain enough
info to endanger them. Few people, if any, will believe him… What he
actually achieves is to remind me (and not only me) of another kind of
people, who also said what neither they nor anybody else believed. The
Soviet functionaries.

I don’t know if Pfc. Manning is the person who leaked those documents
(and the “collateral murder” video on which the US copter pilots
killed the Reuters journalists). If yes, he reminds me of another
person – Hugh Thompson Jr, the officer who stopped the My Lai
massacre, and leaked the info about it. He was sharply criticized by
the US Congressmen for this. He was sent to missions without adequate
cover and supply until he was gunned down and nearly killed. However,
he was awarded a medal by the US government, because of his humanity.

Will the same happen with Pfc. Manning? I doubt it. Given the current
situation, it is more like he will get a sentence, and the medal will
be preserved for those who will succeed to shut down Wikileaks. Which
is another proof that the things in USA have changed – and a proof
which direction they took.

… Remember the great support Obama had among the ordinary people
abroad before the president elections? Especially in Europe? There is
a reason for this support. The ordinary people hoped that he will
restore the US moral superiority, by bringing moral to the US
politics… He failed to do it. The Guantanamo gulag stays. Some
measures are taken to prevent the worst things the US Army does abroad
– however, the “culture of concealment” is stronger than ever. Slowly,
but surely one trend emerges and grows in the thinking of the people
outside US. Namely, that this state has gone too far on the Evil
Empire road. That it cannot be stopped anymore, even by a
good-intended President. And that it is better late than never to say
openly: “Things changed. This is not anymore the moral leader of the
world – this is just another evil empire. One that the decent people
must hate, loathe and oppose to.”

What will happen if this trend of thinking prevails? Easy guess.
Al-Qaeda will grow and attract more and more people, and will probably
obstruct more of the US activity abroad. In fact, it may gain enough
support to carry its fight on American soil. The support for US in
Europe and the rest of the world will gradually diminish, to the
extent that even the pro-US politicians will have to become blind and
deaf to the USA needs. And very surely there will be new “cold wars” –
economic, cultural etc. – between USA and some other countries, but it
will not be possible anymore to win them through moral superiority.

Know Thy Enemy

USA is still the strongest military power in the world. However, even
it cannot afford a major war against a decently strong enemy on its
soil. And an union between some of the other top countries might prove
as strong militarily. Not speaking that USA is not the world biggest
exporter since quite a lot of time, and relatively soon is going to be
dethroned from the first place in the economics, too. (In fact, the EU
already did it.) So, a question arises – how USA is going to maintain
its influence in the world?

Typically, influence is maintained by what you export, in the broadest
sense of the word. Currently, USA exports almost only military power
and economic size. In not a long time these will diminish, compared to
other countries. Unless USA finds something else to export, and to be
the top exporter, its influence in the world will be lost. Which
carries a lot of problems for it, and for the world, too.

The single thing that USA is uniquely positioned to export is exactly
the moral superiority. Its long-standing culture of freedom,
compassion and civil liberties is still unmatched anywhere in the
world. If properly extended to the people outside USA borders, it can
restore this superiority, to the extent USA can become its
overwhelming exporter. However, the freedom and the civil liberties
inside USA are seriously eroded during the last decades, and it seems
that this trend will not be reversed easily. And the growing tendency
to treat the non-US citizens as second-class people doesn’t help too
much.

Still, it is worth trying to do what can be done to preserve the moral
superiority. The history has clearly shown that every bit of it is
worth more than an army of tanks, even in a war. Unless USA choose
this path, they are headed where the decadent Roman Empire was headed
– to internal corruption, weakness and ultimately disappearance. This
is the road down that every evil empire takes, sooner or later.

To preserve moral superiority, the US must first learn what is the
correct move in situations like the current one. Whether Wikileaks is
its enemy, or the best friend they can find – one that is brave enough
to tell you you have a nasty problem, and to press on you to solve it
on time. And whether people like Mike Mullen are its best servants, or
its best enemies – the ones that tell you “There is no problem,
continue this way, people will never learn of the crimes, truth never
comes out”.

If you are still not sure which is the correct position, ask one truly
outstanding soldier – Gen. David Petraeus. He will surely be able to
tell you the truth… Actually, you can tell it yourself, by using his
simple principle – which action decreases the number of your enemies,
and increases the number of your friends.




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 04:23:36 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:23:36 +0100
Subject: DoJ Trojan Horse
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QMH8sF3WhuahrNv_XhMfgAdYAwU2cvH-MPHVCfSCqKAw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/eric-holder-wall-street-double-agent-comes-in-from-the-cold-20150708

---

Eric Holder, Wall Street Double Agent, Comes in From the Cold
Barack Obama's former top cop cashes in after six years of letting
banks run wild
By Matt Taibbi July 8, 2015

    Share
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eric holder
Eric Holder is back at Covington & Burling after serving as U.S.
attorney general for six years. Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty

Eric Holder has gone back to work for his old firm, the white-collar
defense heavyweight Covington & Burling. The former attorney general
decided against going for a judgeship, saying he's not ready for the
ivory tower yet. "I want to be a player," he told the National Law
Journal, one would have to say ominously.
Sidebar
Eric Holder
Goldman Non-Prosecution: AG Eric Holder Has No Balls »

Holder will reassume his lucrative partnership (he made $2.5 million
the last year he worked there) and take his seat in an office that
reportedly – this is no joke – was kept empty for him in his absence.

The office thing might have been improper, but at this point, who
cares? More at issue is the extraordinary run Holder just completed as
one of history's great double agents. For six years, while brilliantly
disguised as the attorney general of the United States, he was
actually working deep undercover, DiCaprio in The Departed-style, as
the best defense lawyer Wall Street ever had.

Holder denied there was anything weird about returning to one of Wall
Street's favorite defense firms after six years of letting one banker
after another skate on monstrous cases of fraud, tax evasion, market
manipulation, money laundering, bribery and other offenses.

"Just because I'm at Covington doesn't mean I will abandon the public
interest work," he told CNN. He added to the National Law Journal that
a big part of the reason he was going back to private practice was
because he wanted to give back to the community.

"The firm's emphasis on pro bono work and being engaged in the civic
life of this country is consistent with my worldview that lawyers need
to be socially active," he said.

Right. He's going back to Covington & Burling because of the firm's
emphasis on pro bono work.

Here's a man who just spent six years handing out soft-touch
settlements to practically every Too Big to Fail bank in the world.
Now he returns to a firm that represents many of those same companies:
Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup, to
name a few.

Collectively, the decisions he made while in office saved those firms
a sum that is impossible to calculate with exactitude. But even going
by the massive rises in share price observed after he handed out these
deals, his service was certainly worth many billions of dollars to
Wall Street.

Now he will presumably collect assloads of money from those very same
bankers. It's one of the biggest quid pro quo deals in the history of
government service. Congressman Billy Tauzin once took a $2
million-a-year job lobbying for the pharmaceutical industry just a few
weeks after helping to pass the revolting Prescription Drug Benefit
Bill, but what Holder just did makes Tauzin look like a guy who once
took a couple of Redskins tickets.

In this light, telling reporters that you're going back to Covington &
Burling to be "engaged in the civic life of this country" seems like a
joke for us all to suck on, like announcing that he's going back to
get a doctorate at the University of Blow Me.

Holder doesn't look it, but he was a revolutionary. He
institutionalized a radical dualistic approach to criminal justice,
essentially creating a system of indulgences wherein the world's
richest companies paid cash for their sins and escaped the sterner
punishments the law dictated.

Here are five pillars of the Holder revolution:
Sidebar
Alayne Fleischmann
The $9 Billion Witness: JPMorgan Chase's Worst Nightmare »

One is that he failed to win a single conviction in court for any
crimes related to the financial crisis. The only trial of any
consequence brought by his Justice Department for crimes related to
the crisis involved a pair of Bear Stearns nimrods named Ralph Cioffi
and Matthew Tannin, who confided in each other via email that the
subprime markets were "toast" but told their clients something very
different to keep them invested.

After a jury acquitted both in early 2009, the Holder Justice
Department turtled. Sources inside the DOJ told me over the years that
both Holder and his deputy, fellow Covington & Burling alum Lanny
Breuer, were obsessed with winning and refused to chance any case
where they felt a jury might go sideways on them. Thus the
Cioffi-Tannin case was the last financial crisis case they dared to
bring into to a criminal courtroom – virtually every other case ended
in settlements.

Two: Holder famously invented a concept called "collateral
consequences," under which the state could pursue non-criminal
alternatives for companies if they believed prosecuting them might
result in too much "collateral" damage. Britain's HSBC bank, which
admitted to massive money laundering violations, and the Swiss bank
UBS, which was caught manipulating the Libor interest rate benchmark,
were examples of firms that escaped vigorous prosecution because
Holder and his lackeys were, ostensibly anyway, concerned about
market-altering consequences.

Significantly, both banks were later caught up in even more serious
scandals, leading to criticism that stiffer punishments the first time
around might have prevented future damage. Holder's successor Loretta
Lynch was even forced to rip up Holder's UBS deal for being
insufficiently punitive. It's worth noting that Holder, before he
became attorney general, represented UBS at Covington & Burling.

Holder's lenient policies were deployed at a time when fellow
officials like Tim Geithner and Ben Bernanke were using bailout monies
to merge troubled firms together and create even larger
mega-companies. Chase and Wells Fargo, which swallowed up Washington
Mutual and Wachovia in state-aided takeovers, were prototypes of the
modern mega-bank. So when Holder wedded "collateral consequences" to
these new Too Big to Fail mega-firms, he created Too Big to Jail. This
is a huge part of his legacy, the creation of an unjailable class.

Three: Holder also pioneered the extrajudicial settlement, striking
huge deals with companies in which judges did not sign off on the
agreements. The arrangement prevented pesky judges like the irksome
Jed Rakoff (who voided a pair of settlements he felt were inadequate)
from protesting lenient justice.

This essentially institutionalized the backroom deal. Everything was
done in secret, and there was no longer any opportunity for judges or
anyone else to check the power of the executive branch to hand out
financial indulgences.

The watchdog group Better Markets described the $13 billion Chase
settlement, one of the biggest extrajudicial deals, as "an
unprecedented settlement amount [that] cannot…immunize the DOJ from
having to obtain independent judicial review of its otherwise
unilateral, secret actions."

Four: There is a huge misconception, pushed equally by odd bedfellows
in the financial community and Obama supporters, that Eric Holder
didn't send anyone from Wall Street to jail because "no one broke any
laws."

This preposterous meme grew out of something Barack Obama said on 60
Minutes. Here are the president's exact words:

"Some of the most damaging behavior on Wall Street — in some cases
some of the least ethical behavior on Wall Street — wasn't illegal."

Obama, a brilliant lawyer and wordsmith, was not saying that all of
the behavior leading to the crash was legal. He merely said that some
of the worst behavior wasn't illegal. Which is true. Meaningless, but
true.

Of course, some of the worst behavior was very illegal. This is
confirmed in the fact that Holder extracted billions of dollars in
settlement monies and even, in a few cases, obtained guilty pleas for
crimes like fraud, manipulation, bribery, money laundering and tax
evasion.

Anyone who even tries to claim that none of the banks actually did
anything illegal should be directed to the HSBC settlement of December
2012. In this deferred prosecution agreement, Europe's largest bank
paid $1.92 billion to settle their responsibility for violations of
the Bank Secrecy Act and other laws.

This is from a description of HSBC's crimes by Holder's Justice Department:

"As a result of HSBC Bank USA's AML failures, at least $881 million in
drug trafficking proceeds – including proceeds of drug trafficking by
the Sinaloa Cartel in Mexico…were laundered through HSBC Bank USA."

You might remember the Sinaloa cartel for their ISIS-style,
unforgettably upsetting torture videos. HSBC washed their cash. They
even created special teller windows to make their deposits easier.
This is admitted, not alleged.

But Holder went out of his way to let them keep their U.S. charter. He
gave their executives a grand total of zero days in jail, zero dollars
in individual fines.

To reiterate: HSBC laundered money for guys who chop peoples' heads
off with chainsaws. So we can dispense with the "but no one broke any
laws" thing.

When asked about this in testimony before the Senate, Holder told
elected officials he was concerned harsher penalties against firms
like HSBC would "have a negative impact on the national economy," and
that this "has an inhibiting influence…on our ability to bring
resolutions that I think would be more appropriate."

Compare this to what he just said after returning to Covington & Burling:

"I think that what we did in the department was, I always like to say,
appropriately aggressive. There may be clients that, for whatever
reason, will not decide to work with me..."

Oddly enough, Holder used that same phrase – "appropriately
aggressive" – in his Senate testimony. In other words, the attorney
general said he was "inhibited" from giving "appropriate" punishments
just a few moments before claiming his punishments were appropriate.
This is classic Clintonian politics, saying two things at the same
time, neither of them true.

Five: Holder contributed countless subtle inventions to soften
punishments. The most revolting in my view was allowing banks like
Chase the courtesy of calling their settlements "remedial payments"
instead of fines for wrongdoing.

This seemingly insignificant semantic tweak allowed the bank to call
$7 billion of their settlement a business expense, which meant they
could claim it as a tax deduction, which in turn meant that taxpayers
like you and me paid a whopping $2.45 billion of Chase's penalty.

Some of the write-ups of these decisions emanating from the financial
and legal press were hilarious. Law360.com, noting that the settlement
language meant that 35 percent of the bank's regulatory burden would
be shifted "onto the backs of taxpayers," pointed out, as if
surprised, that the tax treatment "sparked debate" and that "some are
even angry about it." Shocking!

Of course, none of us mortals can deduct so much as a speeding ticket,
since we wouldn't want to use the tax code to encourage speeding. So
why was it OK for the nation's top cop to make fraud or money
laundering a tax-subsidized activity?

There were other tricks. Banks that committed multiple violations of
the same offense were often allowed to settle or plead to just one
count. And in many cases the fines were staggeringly low compared to
the volume of crime – BNP-Paribas, for instance, paid $8.9 billion
after laundering $30 billion, meaning they paid about 27 cents per
dollar of violations.

Holder is a cynic of a type that's increasingly common in Washington.
To follow his Justice Department was like watching an endless reel of
The Good Wife – smart lawyers half-cleverly constructing one unseemly
moral compromise after another, always justifying it to themselves in
the end somehow in the name of keeping the ball rolling.

Holder doubtless seriously believed at first that in a time of
financial crisis, he was doing the right thing in constructing new
forms of justice for banks, where nobody but the shareholders actually
had to pay for crime. You've heard of victimless crimes; Holder
created the victimless punishment.

But in the end, it was pretty convenient, wasn't it, that "the right
thing" also happened to be the strategy that preserved Democratic
Party relationships with big-dollar donors, kept the client base at
Holder's old firm nice and fat, made the influential rich immeasurably
richer and allowed Eric Holder himself to crash-land into a giant pile
of money upon resignation.

What a coincidence! In any civilized country, it'd be a scandal. In
America, though, he's just another guy selling whatever he can to get
by. It was just too bad that what Holder had to sell was the criminal
justice system.




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 05:07:17 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:07:17 +0100
Subject: direct action transparency
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SRahig7J_R3YDMA_-htW+8P2qBoV=PmkXKZxaRFFh38w@mail.gmail.com>

lost in much of the FOIA reform noise of late, is this note:

"I understand that H.R. 653 does not allow or require FOIA requesters
to obtain IC records or information, without regard to the age of the
records or information, if such disclosure would adversely affect
intelligence sources and methods."
 - http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/01/house-passes-foia-reform-again-217606

Diane Roark was the last moral and independent voice on HPSCI, clearly. :/

---

back to the point: "... if such disclosure would adversely affect
intelligence sources and methods.", a most excellent qualifier.

let's make those sources and methods obsolete!

1. pervasive crypto everywhere. this defeats passive Eve, thus making
bulk collection techniques to be no longer sensitive; ripe for FOIA :)

2. end-to-end crypto, with strong verification and ephemeral keying
always. this defeats Mallory in the middle, like centralized services
and weak suites, thus making middle monkey techniques to be no longer
sensitive; ripe for FOIA :)

3. hardened endpoints surrounded by opsec sauce, with habit of
continual assessment and improvement. this might get close to
defeating ProBurglary: black bags with best in class pull/pivot
multipliers.
  the last and final FOIA Frontier :P


want to help my transparency drive? let's break spook kit!
 are your friends and family using #1? get them to try, by year end.
  how many at level 2?  do you think #3 exists? can we define #3 by year end?


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 11:12:27 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:12:27 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <E1aJ8UX-0005Xe-2Y@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
 <E1aJ8UX-0005Xe-2Y@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28LnpJgO_uyi9AMwCG0YJW-n6P+==8g8ZXx2dShLH4EWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:39 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> There are indeed similarities of the crypto advocacy crowd with
> advocates of guns, which figures because both are classified
> as munitions and serve similar purposes.
>
> Gun control could be linked to crypto control, and some cpunks,
> in early days at least, emphasized the parallel. "My cold dead hands"
> was invoked for gun self-protection and passphrase for privacy
> protection.

Early days? You must have missed the cpunks threads on this
in the last year... search for NRA. The similarities between the
two groups and their missions and environments are remarkable to
the point they should consider partnering for towards mutual benefit.


> Other parallels can be seen between cryptographers and weapons
> manufacturers pursuing commercial, governmental and user
> markets with sales pitches tuned to each category. Dual use
> an essential feature, duplicity and dual hats too.
>
> Could be more coming in regulation of cryptographers like gun
> manufacturers and dealers. And best, the black market and
> underground and warfare tools merchants and of course
> informants and betrayers.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 11:16:44 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:16:44 -0500
Subject: mobile digital forensics laboratory
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Tixna+mfgpT+hm9h93qX+BXm__JEV3LPnTeJXoMVKdJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Tixna+mfgpT+hm9h93qX+BXm__JEV3LPnTeJXoMVKdJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29edibmHYa0c=hpbNASMzeg3DUVQ+hQNhsjkWXGikRimg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:06 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> looking for details on capabilities and components of "mobile digital
> forensic laboratories":
> '''
> The raid, named Operation Pleiades, resulted in both targets being
> detained. In addition, law enforcement officials used mobile labs to
> inspect seized evidence.
> '''
>  - http://www.csoonline.com/article/3021812/security/europol-confirms-raid-against-ddos-extortion-ring-dd4bc.html
>
> any foreign or domestic pointers?

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=party+van




From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Jan 13 11:56:35 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:56:35 -0500
Subject: Sign the Letter to Secure the Internet
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28LnpJgO_uyi9AMwCG0YJW-n6P+==8g8ZXx2dShLH4EWw@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <E1aJ6Rc-0007sV-8L@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <56957B54.2020605@openmailbox.org>
 <E1aJ8UX-0005Xe-2Y@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti28LnpJgO_uyi9AMwCG0YJW-n6P+==8g8ZXx2dShLH4EWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1aJRU2-0002M1-GR@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Indeed, some cpunks advocate both arms and crypto personal offense
and defense, but many more set up crypto initiatives (promotional and
inventive) to distance themselves from those they considered harming
the public image of Encryption (Cryptoo to vulgar",  especially those who
marketed academic, commercial and above all governmental comsec
with the joys and financial rewards of moving among the three cash
bovines wearing cowboy hats and chaps, sporting shaved faces and
skulls, trimmed beards and hair, tatoos and dongles, or ultra-chic hybrids
of all, to match the well-dressed opportunities fronted by gaggles of
natsec-cum-privacy oriented NGOs, press and press-agents eager to
advise, teach and crypto-party to the world's natsec-privacy combo
needy.

Sign on by just repeating technology will figure out how to do the
combo -- by cheating and deception, rigging standards, relishing
NDAs and secretkeeping while faking canaries and openness.




At 02:12 PM 1/13/2016, grarpamp wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:39 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> > There are indeed similarities of the crypto advocacy crowd with
> > advocates of guns, which figures because both are classified
> > as munitions and serve similar purposes.
> >
> > Gun control could be linked to crypto control, and some cpunks,
> > in early days at least, emphasized the parallel. "My cold dead hands"
> > was invoked for gun self-protection and passphrase for privacy
> > protection.
>
>Early days? You must have missed the cpunks threads on this
>in the last year... search for NRA. The similarities between the
>two groups and their missions and environments are remarkable to
>the point they should consider partnering for towards mutual benefit.
>
>
> > Other parallels can be seen between cryptographers and weapons
> > manufacturers pursuing commercial, governmental and user
> > markets with sales pitches tuned to each category. Dual use
> > an essential feature, duplicity and dual hats too.
> >
> > Could be more coming in regulation of cryptographers like gun
> > manufacturers and dealers. And best, the black market and
> > underground and warfare tools merchants and of course
> > informants and betrayers.





From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 13:08:36 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:08:36 -0500
Subject: Collected FISA docs
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_T0Hed21tSY3OZWfg0h5EgPtBWssVeX0KJodNbeXS4Hg@mail.gmail.com>

549 FISA related docs at
https://archive.org/details/ForeignIntelligenceSurveillanceAct

View individual files:
https://archive.org/download/ForeignIntelligenceSurveillanceAct
Quick download:
https://archive.org/compress/ForeignIntelligenceSurveillanceAct

FISC documents only:
https://archive.org/details/ForeignIntelligenceSurveillanceCourt (202
documents, all included in the FISA collection above)

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Jan 13 13:56:27 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:56:27 -0500
Subject: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining
 Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-LrqNnY2P88+DBEJBUeXBxVC6q2ZyPNewT93LFgL0L7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-LrqNnY2P88+DBEJBUeXBxVC6q2ZyPNewT93LFgL0L7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5696C80B.3010808@pilobilus.net>

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Hash: SHA1

On 01/12/2016 08:45 AM, Michael Best wrote:

(quoting somebody's ad copy:)

> Indeed, within these pages, Pacepa, along with his co-author,
> historian and law professor Ronald Rychlak, expose some of the
> most consequential yet largely unknown disinformation campaigns
> of our lifetime.

I was very disappointed that the book in question has all the
earmarks of partisan disinformation in and of itself.  The
networked communication revolution has greatly reduced the
usefulness of censorship and secrecy, and disinformation campaigns
have grown dramatically to compensate for this development. We do
need a better understanding and wider public recognition of the
theory, applications and history of black propaganda and
disinformation, if we want to avoid and counter this form of
deception.

In social media venues where populist and/or radical political
interests are prominently represented, black propaganda in support
of State and corporate interests is rampant.  Ideological converts
who promote, defend and embellish disinformation narratives
supplied by front groups dominate many discussions.  These
campaigns do more than poison wells where factual information
suppressed in broadcast media is available.  They also damage the
image and dilute the message of populist and activist groups in
real life, by seeding their organizational meetings and public
events with ideological converts who vocally advocate for
delusional beliefs and self defeating methods.

Using black propaganda and front groups to co-opt, discredit and
neutralize populist and radical movements is an old and well
established feature of political warfare.  Adapting this strategy
to the Internet environment requires new tactics, and presents new
opportunities.  Activist groups targeted for marginalization,
division and termination by well funded adversaries need to adapt
their own techniques to counter new threats and exploit new
opportunities presented by their opponents in the network
environment.

Disinformation has inherent advantages over real information:  It
can be designed from the ground up for simplicity, emotional
appeal and behavioral impact.  Against this, truth has the
advantages of internal consistency, relevance, and appeal to a
more intelligent audience - so, when truth is attacked by
disinformation operators, it needs all the help it can get to
stand even a slight chance of propagating and affecting human
behavior in the real world.

:o/







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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Jan 13 07:18:47 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:18:47 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
 <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20160113151847.GA2520@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:55:58PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 15:52:39 piszesz:
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > > Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard
> > > to
> > > defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> > > hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly
> > > a real threat?
> > > 
> > > [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
> > 
> > First a joke:
> > 
> > "statistician tried to cross a river of average depth 0.5m and got
> > drowned".
> > 
> > May I ask what percentage of the EU are street policeman (not counting
> > burocrats) to "protect" the sheeple?
> 
> Protect from what, exactly?
>  
> > ...And what if half of the 0.03% were armed turrorists?
> 
> Seriously, are we going in that direction now? Okay, how about this: what if 
> exactly 2 of these immigrants were armed turrists?
> 
> You can pull numbers from your ass, so can I. When you want to get back to a 
> more serious discussion, do tell.
>

>From my ass, confirmed by journos.

Over meeelion migrants, according to some meeeelions:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911

Your ass is off by a factor of about 10 AFAICT.





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 14:52:26 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:52:26 -0500
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and Devices
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_3d3xR8xGYc1_6omOoOgyY491adDqsJ=SNZXFVQLDP2A@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.onthewire.io/new-york-wants-to-force-vendors-to-decrypt-users-phones/
http://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2015/A8093

"Any smartphone ... sold, leased or delivered to New York, shall
be capable of being decrypted and unlocked by its manufacturer or
its operating system provider ... penalty of $2,500 to the vendor
for every device that doesn't comply"




From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Jan 13 15:21:59 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 18:21:59 -0500
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones
 and Devices
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_3d3xR8xGYc1_6omOoOgyY491adDqsJ=SNZXFVQLDP2A@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_3d3xR8xGYc1_6omOoOgyY491adDqsJ=SNZXFVQLDP2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1aJUh9-0002sQ-Gc@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y

"New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its citizens, and
in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by digital device
manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being
beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals.  Revela-
tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government
intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats to their
privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.
Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always
has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."

We Love New York






From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 13 14:45:51 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 19:45:51 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:32:52 +0100
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/13/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > 	So, yes. I'm waiting for coderman to make some updated
> > 	political comment after hopefully having updated his
> > knowledge of american wars.
> 
> Guantanamo is closing!  (that's not nothing, right? :)

	I don't know. You tell me? I can't tell if you're being
	sarcastic or not.


> "On the Moral Superiority"
>  - http://www.gatchev.info/blog/?p=1017


	Browsed that. It mostly contains commonplace bullshit and
	cliches. What's your point? 
	
	Just one sample : "Twenty  years ago, if you were an American in
	Berlin, you would be revered" Sure. And pigs fly.


	By the way, in what sense did russia lose the 'cold war'? I
	think they still have enough missiles to teach the americans a
	leason or fifty.


 
> ---
> 
> On the Moral Superiority

	null pointer







From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Jan 13 16:47:32 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 19:47:32 -0500
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <E1aJUh9-0002sQ-Gc@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_3d3xR8xGYc1_6omOoOgyY491adDqsJ=SNZXFVQLDP2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1aJUh9-0002sQ-Gc@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5696F024.80303@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/13/2016 06:21 PM, John Young wrote:
> http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&
Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y
>
> 
> 
> "New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its
> citizens, and in responding to the misguided and dangerous
> attempts by digital device manufacturers to turn digital
> devices into virtual safes that, being beyond the reach of law
> enforcement, are havens for criminals.  Revela- tions in the
> recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government 
> intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats
> to their privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit
> peoples' privacy. Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant
> requirement, as it always has been. This bill would help to
> protect all New Yorkers."
> 
> We Love New York

NY State Assembly also probably loves cash and other valuable
considerations offered by Apple Inc.

http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-deluged-by-police-demands-to-decrypt-
iphones/

https://threatpost.com/researcher-identifies-hidden-data-acquisition
- -services-in-ios/107335/



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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 14 01:05:45 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:05:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and
 PrivaTegrity without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <5695BBE0.20606@videotron.ca>
References: <5695BBE0.20606@videotron.ca>
Message-ID: <1809780336.5312290.1452762345600.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



 From: David Bernier <david250 at videotron.ca>
>Just today, I read a Forbes story from late 2013 where an
>anonymous had set up a web-site featuring Bounties in
>bitcoins for assassination of named public figures, which
>goes with the Crypto Anarchy "credo" (sometimes).
>Source:
>Nov 18, 2013 @ 08:30 AM
>Meet The 'Assassination Market' Creator Who's Crowdfunding Murder With
>Bitcoins
>Link:>http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/18/meet-the-assassination-market-creator-whos-crowdfunding-murder-with-bitcoins/#2715e4857a0b50146e921ac1
>David
Ah, yes, Sanjuro's Assassination Market.  I, more than most, would like to find out what really happenedwith that.  Inadvertently assisted by me (by directing the anonymous TOR-emailer, claiming to be 'Sanjuro', to AndyGreenberg of Forbes) it got a rather enormous amount of publicity almost instantly in the media.  Nevertheless, littleactually happened, and the media coverage didn't reflect nor describe that.  The main criticism I had of this was the fact that the system was said to have a minimum bid of 1 BTC, which at the time was somewhere around $1000.  This, contrasting with my Assassination Politics essay of 1995-96 where I anticipated allowing bits of 10 cents.  
Assassination Market did not explain a lot of what I had considered necessary for a functioning such system. How can a potential donor trust the system?  How can a potential 'predictor' trust the system?  How to collect?I never tried to research into this, because I judged that to do so would be a little too 'hot' for me to do.  Didany donations actually appear on the system after its initial announcement?  Did any new names/targets appear?
"I have a thousand questions I'd like you ask you, Mr. Klaatu".            Jim Bell  
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From xcelq at fastmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:13:29 2016
From: xcelq at fastmail.com (Patrick Lonergan)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:13:29 -0800
Subject: Privacy Con (FTC's words, not mine)
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08G0ArT66vqYyx11bZ3AUBqNg3OxCQ85XYfM48H+CkK+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08G0ArT66vqYyx11bZ3AUBqNg3OxCQ85XYfM48H+CkK+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1452791609.3324889.492228210.3C847A8D@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Thanks for the messge.


On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 09:05 AM, Michael Best wrote:
> "FTC is hosting #PrivacyCon today with leading researchers to expand
> its insights of emerging technologies + their impact on consumers"
>
> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/events-calendar/2016/01/privacycon
>
> Live webcast: https://kvgo.com/ftc/01-14-2016-Privacy-CON-Workshop
>
> Research submissions:
>
> #PrivacyCon is trending on twitter.
>
> I don't think they realize how unfortunate "Privacy Con" will sound to
> some....
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From xcelq at fastmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:17:47 2016
From: xcelq at fastmail.com (Patrick Lonergan)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:17:47 -0800
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <b7062cbe5e29f2b55588f327a1bcd4b8@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <b7062cbe5e29f2b55588f327a1bcd4b8@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <1452791867.3325860.492231706.0095AB17@webmail.messagingengine.com>

When we make something un break able. like tor but even the "un
breakable" anonymous can be broken.



On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 09:10 AM, boot at ghostmail.com wrote:
> no no no this is all wrong..


> If new york can decrypt, it means there is a backdoor


> we know backdoors can be used by anyone who finds them.


> this is bad not only for pplz but also for business, who will still
> trust us tech?


>


> Thu Jan 14 2016 00:24:18 from John Young <jya at pipeline.com>


> ------------------------------


> http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y


>


> "New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its
> citizens, and


> in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by
> digital device


> manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being


> beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals. Revela-


> tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government


> intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats
> to their


> privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.


> Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always


> has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."


>


> We Love New York


>


>


>


> Sent from secure GhostMail[1]. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and
> cloud storage, free sign up here[2].





Links:

  1. https://www.ghostmail.com
  2. https://www.ghostmail.com
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 14 11:13:08 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 11:13:08 -0800
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <5697F344.5040500@riseup.net>

boot at ghostmail.com wrote:
>
> Last week, former NSA Director Michael Hayden made a very strong
> argument
> <http://www.dailydot.com/politics/michael-hayden-encryption-debate-clinton-bush/?tw=pl> /against/
> deliberately weakening security products by adding backdoors
>
> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/01/michael_hayden_.html
>

They need the practice...

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:05:45 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:05:45 -0500
Subject: Privacy Con (FTC's words, not mine)
Message-ID: <CANFTA08G0ArT66vqYyx11bZ3AUBqNg3OxCQ85XYfM48H+CkK+w@mail.gmail.com>

"FTC is hosting #PrivacyCon today with leading researchers to expand its
insights of emerging technologies + their impact on consumers"

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/events-calendar/2016/01/privacycon

Live webcast: https://kvgo.com/ftc/01-14-2016-Privacy-CON-Workshop

Research submissions:

#PrivacyCon is trending on twitter.

I don't think they realize how unfortunate "Privacy Con" will sound to
some....
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From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Jan 14 09:51:32 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:51:32 -0500
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked
 Phones and Devices
In-Reply-To: <b7062cbe5e29f2b55588f327a1bcd4b8@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <b7062cbe5e29f2b55588f327a1bcd4b8@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1aJm05-0005Ow-V1@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If crypto follows the gun model, there will be a lucrative business
bringing crypto-phones into New York. That will follow the US
crypto marketers flooding the globe through immensely flexible
export controls favoring the most criminal leaders kept in
power with US armaments.

In the end, New York is so deeply corrupted, legally and
illegally as Europe Asia Africa Anartica, the crypto controls
will be as great a business as controls on money, taxes,
sex, medicine, religion, education, sports, natsec, above
all, justice.


At 12:10 PM 1/14/2016, you wrote:

>no no no this is all wrong..
>
>If new york can decrypt, it means there is a backdoor
>
>we know backdoors can be used by anyone who finds them.
>
>this is bad not only for pplz but also for business, who will still 
>trust us tech?
>
>
>Thu Jan 14 2016 00:24:18 from John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
>
>------------------------------
>
>http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y
>
>
>"New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its citizens, and
>
>in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by digital device
>
>manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being
>
>beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals. Revela-
>
>tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government
>
>intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats to their
>
>privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.
>
>Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always
>
>has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."
>
>
>We Love New York
>
>
>
>
>Sent from secure <https://www.ghostmail.com>GhostMail. Easy and free 
>encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, 
><https://www.ghostmail.com>free sign up here.





From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 11:03:41 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:03:41 -0500
Subject: [cryptome] Re: FOIA Fodder
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SB4b2OMdTQJn9spiyGxfgX3X=wuXVuLYWkRVryaB7=0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08kt26f++nP_3NZ=PUPS0oFZtOT4_WMXxpDEkgko72j6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S7c_GDb0juk6WdfJKqhB_mFdqOG3LC5EGQKUYhjpapTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09jGQ7OFC5eAq62MU+GwxEqoExXbVCqaSUD5AQZDce75w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SB4b2OMdTQJn9spiyGxfgX3X=wuXVuLYWkRVryaB7=0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA09y7TG9J61E_n9sYkVGp8V2Cg81P1Uh2pGHPB2tSX3jQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I just added a bunch of new agencies to the FOIA Fodder list, including
links to Lists of FOIA-able OIG investigations posted on Government Attic.

http://that1archive.neocities.org/foia-fodder.html


> i just looked at this list... :P
> perhaps first order of business is to rank order this list?  which
> ones most interesting?  "Werewolf Operation" ??  *grin*


Operation Werwolf - the Nazi stay behind resistance army plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf Should be fun. =)

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:22 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> i just looked at this list... :P
>
> perhaps first order of business is to rank order this list?  which
> ones most interesting?  "Werewolf Operation" ??  *grin*
>
>
>
> best regards,
>
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 12:58:49 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:58:49 -0500
Subject: FOIA adventures
Message-ID: <CANFTA09sTA52-4tUvqoP-4iU_pH4Pw5VgDQs40mp1gXDEjK+Cw@mail.gmail.com>

A few of my recent FOIA requests might be of special interest to these
lists.

CIA software - DUE DILIGANCE
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/due-diligence-software-23449/

"Records relating to CIA's use of software referred to as "Due Diligence"
in The Human Factor: Inside the CIA's Dysfunctional Intelligence Culture by
Ishmael Jones. The software is described as being used to describe
information available about a person from public databases. Please include
records relating to the development of Due Diligence as well as any
associated source code and technical manuals."

TOR Naval Research Laboratory
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/tor-naval-research-laboratory-23446/

"Records relating to the development of onion routing and "The Onion
Router" AKA TOR by "onion routing", which was developed in the mid-1990s by
United States Naval Research Laboratory employees, mathematician Paul
Syverson and computer scientists Michael G. Reed and David Goldschlag."

TOR DARPA
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/tor-darpa-22656/

All my MuckRock requests can be viewed at
https://www.muckrock.com/accounts/profile/TheMikeBest/

New requests and updates posted to That1Archive.neocities.org
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Jan 14 13:03:09 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 16:03:09 -0500
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and Devices
Message-ID: <CANFTA09OyktOkLDCdBN+rV1NVXVq9EayBakJOZL1FYTeFtcWwQ@mail.gmail.com>

*John Young* jya at pipeline.com
<jya%40pipeline.com?Subject=Re%3A%20US%20State%20Of%20New%20York%20to%20Ban%20Encrypted%20Screenlocked%0A%20Phones%20and%20Devices&In-Reply-To=%3CE1aJm05-0005Ow-V1%40elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net%3E>
*Thu Jan 14 12:51:32 EST 2016*

> In the end, New York is so deeply corrupted, legally and
> illegally as Europe Asia Africa Anartica


Damn corrupt penguins! Well, at least now we know how Linux was
compromised. I LOVEDED YOU, TUX! ;-)
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From boot at ghostmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:10:25 2016
From: boot at ghostmail.com (boot at ghostmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:10:25 +0000
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
Message-ID: <b7062cbe5e29f2b55588f327a1bcd4b8@www.ghostmail.com>

no no no this is all wrong..

If new york can decrypt, it means there is a backdoor

we know backdoors can be used by anyone who finds them.

this is bad not only for pplz but also for business, who will still trust us tech?




Thu Jan 14 2016 00:24:18 from John Young <jya at pipeline.com>

------------------------------

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y




"New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its citizens, and

in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by digital device

manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being

beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals. Revela-

tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government

intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats to their

privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.

Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always

has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."




We Love New York











        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From boot at ghostmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:26:57 2016
From: boot at ghostmail.com (boot at ghostmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:26:57 +0000
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
Message-ID: <092bfb265cae9d56f7945e6c0c7c0aa8@www.ghostmail.com>

Yes but if you intentionally build in a huge security hole, you are not protecting people but you put them at risk..




Thu Jan 14 2016 18:22:44 from Patrick Lonergan <xcelq at fastmail.com>

------------------------------
When we make something un break able. like tor but even the "un breakable" anonymous can be broken.

  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 09:10 AM, boot at ghostmail.com wrote:no no no this is all wrong..
If new york can decrypt, it means there is a backdoor
we know backdoors can be used by anyone who finds them.
this is bad not only for pplz but also for business, who will still trust us tech?


Thu Jan 14 2016 00:24:18 from John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
------------------------------
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y


"New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its citizens, and
in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by digital device
manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being
beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals. Revela-
tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government
intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats to their
privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.
Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always
has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."


We Love New York






Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here.
 

        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From boot at ghostmail.com  Thu Jan 14 09:33:35 2016
From: boot at ghostmail.com (boot at ghostmail.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:33:35 +0000
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
Message-ID: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>

Last week, former NSA Director Michael Hayden made a very strong argument against deliberately weakening security products by adding backdoors

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/01/michael_hayden_.html







Thu Jan 14 2016 18:22:44 from Patrick Lonergan <xcelq at fastmail.com>

------------------------------
When we make something un break able. like tor but even the "un breakable" anonymous can be broken.

  On Thu, Jan 14, 2016, at 09:10 AM, boot at ghostmail.com wrote:no no no this is all wrong..
If new york can decrypt, it means there is a backdoor
we know backdoors can be used by anyone who finds them.
this is bad not only for pplz but also for business, who will still trust us tech?


Thu Jan 14 2016 00:24:18 from John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
------------------------------
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A08093&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y


"New York can and should lead the nation in protecting its citizens, and
in responding to the misguided and dangerous attempts by digital device
manufacturers to turn digital devices into virtual safes that, being
beyond the reach of law enforcement, are havens for criminals. Revela-
tions in the recent past about NSA surveillance and similar government
intrusions on privacy have made people acutely aware of threats to their
privacy. The goal of this bill is not to limit peoples' privacy.
Peoples' privacy is protected by the warrant requirement, as it always
has been. This bill would help to protect all New Yorkers."


We Love New York






Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here.
 

        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From rtomek at ceti.pl  Thu Jan 14 09:50:05 2016
From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 18:50:05 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <20160113151847.GA2520@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
 <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>
 <20160113151847.GA2520@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20160114175005.GA17313@tau1.ceti.pl>

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 05:18:47PM +0200, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:55:58PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 15:52:39 piszesz:
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
[...]
> > Protect from what, exactly?
> >  
> > > ...And what if half of the 0.03% were armed turrorists?
> > 
> > Seriously, are we going in that direction now? Okay, how about
> > this: what if exactly 2 of these immigrants were armed turrists?
> > 
> > You can pull numbers from your ass, so can I. When you want to get
> > back to a more serious discussion, do tell.
> >
> 
> >From my ass, confirmed by journos.
> 
> Over meeelion migrants, according to some meeeelions:
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911
> 
> Your ass is off by a factor of about 10 AFAICT.

Both your asses are wrong. Here is what my brain says: given that vast
majority of current wave are lone males, I expect their families are
going to join them in short time - or ASAP?, because they sit in
refugee camps out of Europe and the camps are sometimes (often?)
underfunded (funds ran out?). So the target is going to be few
millions, plus minus few more. Depends how big families are, on
average. If we assume 1 (lone male) +1 (mother) +(2+n) children +(0+x)
(close relatives we cannot leave behind) then the number starts from 3
millions and there is not too many ways I can think of to make it
smaller.

Then, if they all are successfully accomodated, expect another
wave. Actually, expect it anyway.

All those new people might be a problem or may be not. At the moment
it seems that so called institutions are caught with their pants down,
so any problem gets exacerbated. For example, is there any kind of
preparation in advance to give few millions kids decent education once
they get here? Otherwise, in twenty years there will be few millions
of undereducated very angry young ready for anything baaad baaad
jobless illiterate aliens.

As of possible furrorists, they are already here so it is too late to
close the doors. Actually, it seems that furrorists are recruited from
EU-born youth, so defending doors is going to be a bit futile, like
few decades too late futile.

Now, sure this is offtopic, so more to the subject. I need some help
from you guys. I need to do me a cypherpunk hairdo. So, should I stick
some Intel chips into my red mohawk? How many? Is it ok to use old
cheap Pentiums or should I only go with Core 2? Or maybe I should
stick a bunch of resistors into the mohawk, or maybe even some nixie
lamps - but I wouldn't like to look too old, so maybe ARM chips will
be this year's chic?  Is it ok to decorate one of my cheeks with
Enigma-encoded text? How about AES? And another problem: I would like
to cut off about 4cm of ethernet cord, with a plug and stick it into
my nose so that plug shows up from the hole. But I would also like to
glue BT dongle to my other cheek. And I feel that if I do both I will
be looked down even by cypherpunks. So what should I choose? I am so
undecided...

No need to hurry up with advice, however. I need to grow some hairs to
make mohawk from it. Or maybe I will be ok staying with my current
crew cut and sticking some microSDs on it, plug ends up, usb hub glued
to my forehead, rot13 in perl on my cheeks? Please help.

Now, ok. I was joking. In fact if I ever have red mohawk, I will
probably glue single board computer (not Arduino, they are too nice
for me) with some leds, 2000mAh AA, blinking random numbers based on
GPS pos, time, temp and noise. So I do not really seek for advice on
my future c-punk hairdo, but of course constructive thoughts are
welcome.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Jan 14 18:22:01 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:22:01 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/13/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2016 22:43:55 -0500
> David Bernier <david250 at videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 01/10/2016 07:24 PM, juan wrote:
>> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:36:43 -0800
>> > coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 1/10/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> now USA in a state of perpetual war,

coderman, I appreciate your 'introspective' self questioning of
course... and Juan has highlighted one or two assumptions you appear
to be making/ not seeing.

>> >>> 	It has always been. So what the fuck are you talking
>> >>> about.
>> [snip]
>
> 	So, yes. I'm waiting for coderman to make some updated
> 	political comment after hopefully having updated his knowledge
> 	of american wars.

I guess that's the ultimate propaganda success really - not being
aware that your country is always at war, and pretty much always has
been. War is the ultimate rejection and domination of the sovereignty
of other nations and individuals. So a government having their
nation's people thinking they're not at war, and most of the time have
not been, is the fundamental delusion of and successful propaganda of
despotism.

Your 93% link is eye opening - I knew it was coup after coup (war
after war) since WWII, but was not aware of how similar this was to
pre-WWII. And it seems most 'Merrycans don't quite see it (yet?)
either.
Z

PS If anyone can get/ leak the real/ original British Queen Elizabeth
II's (alleged) Christmas message from December 2015, that would be
freakin punk! (That would be the one where she says "enjoy your last
Christmas" if the allegation has any truth to it.) Any good high-brow
British cp's round here? Onion links acceptable...




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Jan 14 19:33:49 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 03:33:49 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/13/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:32:52 +0100
> coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "On the Moral Superiority"
>>  - http://www.gatchev.info/blog/?p=1017
>
> 	Browsed that. It mostly contains commonplace bullshit and
> 	cliches. What's your point?
> 	
> 	Just one sample : "Twenty  years ago, if you were an American in
> 	Berlin, you would be revered" Sure. And pigs fly.

I find that polemic to be very good - not for the cliches of course,
but for two things:

1) an insight from a non American of how America was viewed leading up
to the end of the cold war (originally just "us vs them, we can do it
cheaper" eventually "us evil vs them higher moral ground");
(This itself might be nothing more than a cliche, but I appreciate the
insight from a post- Communist block human)

2) a proscription for "saving" the United States of America - find the
moral high ground, "export" that moral high ground (in action, not in
propaganda words); [s/moral/ethical/ as you will]

I am a "Western" non-American (Australia) and when I read the "
founding fathers' " words of the USofA and of Australia, I actually
find some of them to be genuinely worthy to strive for, to hold as
worthy in general for future generations.

The overt corruption, blatant violation of foundation (constitutional)
principles and basic human rights by the various "Western" governments
is enough to draw out the cynic in the best intentioned individual and
send the rest to some beer and TV soma.

I agree with the proscription of this polemic of "live/ action the
higher moral ground".

That is clear, unambiguous, allows for the personal/ conscience (Juan,
I'm keeping a firm open mind to political anarchy :) , and thankfully
proscriptive. In a world where almost every proscription is shouted
from tall poppy hills and nearly every cry for sanity is met with
bottomless cynicism (the latter of which I am entirely guilty as
charged), this simple and dare I say unassailable "solution" might be
something we can work with (propagandise, educate about, demand from
our "elected authorities").

"Embrace your inner control freak - demand ethical government!" perhaps?

Short of a benevolent (ethical) dictator (head of government), perhaps
the only ethical government is No Government - just can't seem to
shake this thought these days... damn you Juan! ;)


> 	By the way, in what sense did russia lose the 'cold war'? I
> 	think they still have enough missiles to teach the americans a
> 	leason or fifty.

Yes they have the firepower to easily win a hot war. The cold war is
that war for the hearts and or minds of the people - and Russia did
not lose this war to America per se, they lost it due to their own
leadership ( / their manifestation of "communism") - even though, as
the apparently Russian cold-war experiencing blogger said "America won
because they had the higher moral ground".


>> On the Moral Superiority
>
> 	null pointer

Frankly re the current Subject: "Self Preservation and Irreversible
Decline", "Moral Superiority" is I say the most practical answer yet -
if we trust that in principle humans are basically righteous/ ethical/
moral/ good, this seems a solid foundation for justifying political
anarchism yes?

Likewise direct democracy.

Before anyone jumps in to ask "surely the same applies to
'democracy'", note that democracy devolves to power ultimately wielded
by a very small cadre of individuals, in the case of USA and executive
orders, just one individual it seems, which is particularly
problematic since sociopaths are by nature attracted to such positions
or to controlling i.e. compromising or puppeteering those in such
positions;
- whereas with direct democracy 'the people' only have themselves to
blame, since they vote for/against every single law and executive
order, and in political anarchy, well who knows since we haven't seen
a large anarchist community AFAICT - perhaps anarchy would be more
practical and or long lasting than 'western (two) party democracy',
perhaps it would devolve to a modern tribal type thing... I doubt any
system will achieve a long lasting utopianism given the average state
of consciousness of humans on our lovely blue planet.


Perhaps s/moral/ethical/ ?  I have never quite understood why people
get hung up on these terms - perhaps past experience of religionists
ramming "Godly morals" down the throat? - if so, take control of the
word and smite those who would blaspheme the one true definition of
"moral" according to the god of your own sensible mind! :)

("Smite" as in, use words to cut them and slice them to size.)
Z


A couple of definitions:

  Ethics \Eth"ics\ ([e^]th"[i^]ks), n. [Cf. F. ['e]thique. See
     {Ethic}.]
     The science of human duty; the body of rules of duty drawn
     from this science; a particular system of principles and
     rules concerting duty, whether true or false; rules of
     practice in respect to a single class of human actions; as,
     political or social ethics; medical ethics.
     [1913 Webster]

>From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (20 July 2014) [foldoc]:
  computer ethics
  ethics

     <philosophy> Ethics is the field of study that is concerned
     with questions of value, that is, judgments about what human
     behaviour is "good" or "bad".  Ethical judgments are no
     different in the area of computing from those in any other
     area.  Computers raise problems of privacy, ownership, theft,
     and power, to name but a few.

>From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:
  ethics
      n 1: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: {ethical
           motive}, {ethics}, {morals}, {morality}]
      2: the philosophical study of moral values and rules [syn:
         {ethics}, {moral philosophy}]




From themikebest at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 06:23:40 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 09:23:40 -0500
Subject: tuderechoasaber.es (Information requests to Spanish public bodies)
Message-ID: <CANFTA08_RQ9z2utUYzNbPKzpxJ+pjM3Yws6nvQ1S6cSKORj3kg@mail.gmail.com>

tuderechoasaber.es is shutting down, so I archived the website (with the
help of the operators) at https://archive.org/details/tuderechoasaber.es

You can view and browse the files without downloading the entire zip by
going to
https://archive.org/download/tuderechoasaber.es/tuderechoasaber.es.zip/

Cheers.

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan 15 09:16:00 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:16:00 +0000
Subject: Post-"Pre-Publication Review" by DIA censored words "SIGINT" and "Ned
 Beatty"
Message-ID: <56992950.3020302@riseup.net>

Not JUST FOIAs.

Fixing Pre-Publication Review: What Should Be Done?
By Steven Aftergood
Friday, January 15, 2016 at 9:15 AM

Jack Goldsmith and Oona Hathaway called attention in several recent
columns to the pre-publication review process (here, here, here, and
here) that many current and former national security officials and other
government employees must submit to before their work can be published.
The process, they argued, has become dysfunctional, overstepping
legitimate national security boundaries and infringing on freedom of
speech as well as the public’s right to know.

Their case is strong.

Among many pertinent examples, the experience of former Army Reserve
officer Anthony Shaffer is particularly instructive. After he wrote a
memoir of his Afghan war experience, Shaffer submitted his manuscript to
the Army for review, as required, and the approved text was printed. But
then the Defense Intelligence Agency intervened and objected that in its
estimation the cleared volume still contained classified information.
Publication was halted, and the Department of Defense was obliged to
purchase and pulp thousands of copies of the book, although numerous
publicity copies had already been released. A new version of the book
with the objectionable words and passages blacked out was finally
published for sale. (Shaffer presented his version of events in a First
Amendment lawsuit he brought in 2010, with very limited success.)

What makes the Shaffer case valuable in this context is that both the
pre- and post-publication review versions of his text entered public
circulation, permitting external scrutiny of the deletions required by
the official reviewers. In nearly every case, the redacted words and
passages seem to be devoid of national security sensitivity, as the Army
itself had originally concluded.

The most frequent redaction is the cover name that the author used while
serving in Afghanistan, “Christopher Stryker.” Also commonly deleted are
references to the National Security Agency, its headquarters location in
Fort Meade, Maryland, and the use of the term “SIGINT” (signals
intelligence). Somewhat more plausibly, the identity of the former CIA
chief of station in Kabul was replaced with a pseudonym. But rather less
plausibly, a passing mention of the name of character actor Ned Beatty
was deleted.

The point, in other words, is that there is an empirical foundation for
the belief that pre-publication review has gone off the rails. As it is
conducted today, the review process too often arbitrarily impedes the
freedom of many US government employees to participate in public discourse.

In full with links at JUst Security:
https://www.justsecurity.org/28827/fixing-pre-publication-review-done/

-- 
RR
"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with
mine until it worked..."

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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Jan 15 07:21:48 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:21:48 +0200
Subject: Avoid beta testing medical drugs, you can die
Message-ID: <20160115152148.GA2429@sivokote.iziade.m$>

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-15/french-drug-trial-leaves-one-person-near-death-ministry-says

----
Six people participating in a clinical trial for an experimental drug
have been hospitalized after a “serious accident,” France’s Health
Ministry said.

One of the people is on life support and is considered brain dead, the
ministry said in an e-mailed statement on Friday.
-----

Drugs reach software quality.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 12:23:26 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 17:23:26 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56995580.91f08c0a.44524.ffffafb4@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 02:22:01 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:


> I guess that's the ultimate propaganda success really - not being
> aware that your country is always at war, and pretty much always has
> been. 

	Yep. I'm not sure if I already linked this 

	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0705933/

	http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s07e01-im-a-little-bit-country

	It's probably the best analysis of the 'american political
	system' (and history) that I know. 

	(funnily enough. it's way better than anything that
	professional political 'philosophers' say, including statist
	'libertarians')

	

> War is the ultimate rejection and domination of the sovereignty
> of other nations and individuals. So a government having their
> nation's people thinking they're not at war, and most of the time have
> not been, is the fundamental delusion of and successful propaganda of
> despotism.
> 
> Your 93% link is eye opening - I knew it was coup after coup (war
> after war) since WWII, but was not aware of how similar this was to
> pre-WWII. And it seems most 'Merrycans don't quite see it (yet?)
> either.


	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology



> Z
> 
> PS If anyone can get/ leak the real/ original British Queen Elizabeth
> II's (alleged) Christmas message from December 2015, that would be
> freakin punk! (That would be the one where she says "enjoy your last
> Christmas" if the allegation has any truth to it.) Any good high-brow
> British cp's round here? Onion links acceptable...




From dan at geer.org  Fri Jan 15 15:17:42 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:17:42 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 09 Jan 2016 15:58:46 +0000."
 <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>

> The 9 servers are operated by Chaum, and is the software and OS
> config open source and 3rd party verifiable as being the same as
> running on the servers?
>
> 9 servers will be operated in 9 different jurisdictions, not by 9
> separate unrelated 'entities'.
>
> 'Trust us' is just something we've become accustomed to not needing.

I'm not going to disagree with that at all, but here's the thing:
There has to be a root of trust in some way even if (or particularly
if) that root is math, pure math, and nothing but the math so help
me God.

That being said, I would suspect that any system which permits
absolutely zero recourse against things done with it that a super
majority of citizens considers abhorrent is a system that will not
be long tolerated and thus will not long exist.  What then is a
useful model of recourse?

The essential idea of checks and balances is that of prevention,
viz., that no one entity can permanently subvert the workings of
democratic society.  (Here I have to ask to please spare me the
anti-democratic invective.)  I have to agree with some poster or
other who said that Chaum's system only works if it is the only
system, otherwise the evil will just run down some other pipe than
his.  Fair enough, but if one is brilliant and paranoid, then a
system that invests absolutism in no single party is a design goal,
and a worthy design goal at that.  At the same time, if one's
paranoia, existential or otherwise, gets the better of you, then
you will want keep your hand on the tiller even while delegating
fragments of your authority all about.  So it is, I suspect, the
case here.  In other words, if you are too paranoid then you will
never be able to turn the whole thing over to its fate as embodied
in its design and its design alone -- you will wreck it all out of
the kind of paternalism that does seem to be irreducible core of
nearly every argument in the public sphere about safety.

Seriously, I am not arguing for cMix or Mr. Chaum.  I am saying,
carefully and calmly, that some understandable form of recourse is
an unavoidable condition for willing public acquiescence.  Chaum
made a proposal.  Comey made a proposal.  Proposals are likely to
now sprout like wildflowers.  Make one.

Thinking out loud,

--dan




From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan 15 18:38:08 2016
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 19:38:08 -0700
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <5699AD10.2090505@riseup.net>

On 01/15/2016 04:17 PM, dan at geer.org wrote:

<SNIP>

> That being said, I would suspect that any system which permits
> absolutely zero recourse against things done with it that a super
> majority of citizens considers abhorrent is a system that will not
> be long tolerated and thus will not long exist.  What then is a
> useful model of recourse?

That may be so. But rather than a "useful model of recourse", what's
needed are anonymity systems that super majorities can't compromise or
take down.




From jm at porup.com  Fri Jan 15 17:03:44 2016
From: jm at porup.com (J.M. Porup)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 20:03:44 -0500
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <20160116010343.GB1698@fedora-21-dvm>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 06:17:42PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
> That being said, I would suspect that any system which permits
> absolutely zero recourse against things done with it that a super
> majority of citizens considers abhorrent is a system that will not
> be long tolerated and thus will not long exist.  What then is a
> useful model of recourse?

A super majority of citizens are, by definition, insane. The purpose of
any decent anonymity system is to give the slender, sane minority a
fighting chance--and by extension, the human race.

https://medium.com/@toholdaquill/the-triumph-of-nonsense-b38b70ab1bfd

> Seriously, I am not arguing for cMix or Mr. Chaum.  I am saying,
> carefully and calmly, that some understandable form of recourse is
> an unavoidable condition for willing public acquiescence. 

Why on earth is willing public acquiescence a desirable quality
in an anonymity system? Fuck their recourse.

jmp




From themikebest at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 20:07:18 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 23:07:18 -0500
Subject: Drug Lords and the Quiet Man Who Became the CIA's Master Killer
Message-ID: <CANFTA09Z1g6d+=DDH5fOT3TnNm_xBOimrpe6YSrYgCuuj+Sx2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Excerpts from the Kindle edition, description from Amazon.com.

In “How to Get Away with Murder in America,” Evan Wright reveals the story
of Enrique “Ricky” Prado, an alleged killer for a major Miami drug
trafficker who was recruited into the CIA. Despite a grand jury subpoena
and a mountain of evidence unearthed by a federal task force, Prado was
promoted into the agency’s highest echelons and charged with implementing
some of the country’s most sensitive post-9/11 counterterrorist operations,
including the agency’s secret “targeted assassination unit.” All while
staying in close touch with his cocaine-trafficking boss and, evidence
suggests, taking part in additional killings for him.

After Prado retired in 2004 at the rank of SIS-2—the CIA equivalent of a
two-star general—he moved to a senior position at Blackwater, the private
military contractor, where he continued to run the same, now-outsourced
“death squad.” Contrary to government assurances that it was never actually
activated, Wright reveals testimony from one of the Blackwater assassins
that Prado’s unit was indeed carrying out assigned killings. As a former
military intelligence officer told Wright in 2011, “Private contractors are
whacking people like crazy over in Afghanistan for the CIA.”

-

Unfortunately, while this book contains many tantalizing seeds it doesn't
provide context for many events. Further muddying the book's account is the
fact that it follows the investigation chronologically, and not the events
being investigated. Additional research is needed to build on what this
book began.

Excerpts posted to:
http://that1archive.neocities.org/excerpts/CIA-Master-Killer.html

Enjoy!

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 15 18:43:06 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 23:43:06 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5699ae80.87538c0a.3528f.ffffe421@mx.google.com>


"a picture is worth...."

(But I'm writing a reply to your last post anyway Zenaan ;) )
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 00:13:34 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 03:13:34 -0500
Subject: R3 Banking Consortia's Paid Mike Hearn Spews Anti-Bitcoin FUD
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-oEuNyQFmvZ1wh-Lni49LaHuD+BqTx8K_K+W_F-dNhtw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/413pwp/mike_hearns_latest_blog_post_was_a_strategic_move/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4141ud/video_proof_that_r3_controls_mike_hearn_and/
http://r3cev.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc




From hozer at hozed.org  Sat Jan 16 09:47:06 2016
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 11:47:06 -0600
Subject: Avoid beta testing medical drugs, you can die
In-Reply-To: <20160115152148.GA2429@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160115152148.GA2429@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20160116174706.GC10881@nl.grid.coop>

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 05:21:48PM +0200, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-15/french-drug-trial-leaves-one-person-near-death-ministry-says
> 
> ----
> Six people participating in a clinical trial for an experimental drug
> have been hospitalized after a “serious accident,” France’s Health
> Ministry said.
> 
> One of the people is on life support and is considered brain dead, the
> ministry said in an e-mailed statement on Friday.
> -----
> 
> Drugs reach software quality.

This is why it's important to ensure your GMO cannabis feedstock
is from a trusted and authenticated provider, otherwise the 
copy-protection gene might get activated.


And Cannabis-based painkiller? Wouldn't it be cheaper for a flight
to the mile-high-city? What are these drugmakers smoking?




From hozer at hozed.org  Sat Jan 16 10:15:28 2016
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 12:15:28 -0600
Subject: R3 Banking Consortia's Paid Mike Hearn Spews Anti-Bitcoin FUD
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-oEuNyQFmvZ1wh-Lni49LaHuD+BqTx8K_K+W_F-dNhtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-oEuNyQFmvZ1wh-Lni49LaHuD+BqTx8K_K+W_F-dNhtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160116181528.GD10881@nl.grid.coop>

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 03:13:34AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/413pwp/mike_hearns_latest_blog_post_was_a_strategic_move/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4141ud/video_proof_that_r3_controls_mike_hearn_and/
> http://r3cev.com/
> https://www.reddit.com/r/btc


At first, I agreed with Hearn (bitcoin is a failed experiment).

He lost me when he started trash-talking gmaxwell.

One thing I am sure of: Someone made a lot of money
shorting bitcoin over the last couple days. But that's
just the paranoid ramblings of a farmer who's watched
commodity market manipulation for 20 years.


What he cypherpunk wants to know is what is the attack
surface for gmaxwell's confidential transactions:

https://github.com/ElementsProject/elementsproject.github.io/blob/master/confidential_values.md

Of all the privacy nonsense I've heard come out of the
bitcoin crowd I think this is the first thing I've seen
that I believe might work cause the Banksters (aka the
VC investors in blockstream) are paying for it.




From themikebest at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 09:22:35 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 12:22:35 -0500
Subject: After KGB accusations, CIA limits testimony in slander suit
Message-ID: <CANFTA08jdA8T49UY=gGv7rdQXKRWKB_U2m22AFgXfUgWZZri+A@mail.gmail.com>

Erik Heine's CIA file - 5 volumes
https://archive.org/details/HeineErik

According to the New York Times, he was discredited as a KGB agent under
CIA orders. It'll be interesting to dive

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Security-CIA-II/CIA%20II%20045.pdf
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 11:55:32 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 14:55:32 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I might
be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database? There
are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been accessed,
much less made their way online.

Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from which
researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to directly
access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at College
Park, Maryland.*
http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 12:23:52 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 17:23:52 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 03:33:49 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

 
> I am a "Western" non-American (Australia) and when I read the "
> founding fathers' " words of the USofA and of Australia, I actually
> find some of them to be genuinely worthy to strive for, to hold as
> worthy in general for future generations.


	Oh, the liberal* ideals  that those politicians talked about
	are worth striving for. 


	*older sense
> 
> The overt corruption, blatant violation of foundation (constitutional)
> principles and basic human rights by the various "Western" governments
> is enough to draw out the cynic in the best intentioned individual and
> send the rest to some beer and TV soma.


	Here's a bit more cynism : If we want to carry a coup d'etat
	against the british monarchy, what kind of rhetoric should we 
	use? Well, the choice seems kinda obvious. We're against
	tyranny and for freedom. (what does 'freedom' mean exactly,
	well, you'll learn the details in the plantations)


> 
> 
> >> On the Moral Superiority
> >
> > 	null pointer
> 
> Frankly re the current Subject: "Self Preservation and Irreversible
> Decline", "Moral Superiority" is I say the most practical answer yet -
> if we trust that in principle humans are basically righteous/ ethical/
> moral/ good, this seems a solid foundation for justifying political
> anarchism yes?


	
	Well, yes, a political system based on real, individual consent
	is the only system that can claim 'moral superiority'. 

	Funnily enough, western political rhetoric/propaganda is based
	on the ideas of 'government by consent', 'self-government'
	'social contract' and the like. All that stuff logically takes
	political anarchy (the abilty for individuals to *actually*
	'govern' themselves) for granted. And of course, the members of
	the western political mafia/state don't believe or apply a
	single word of their own propaganda. Which makes them so morally
	un-superior...



> - whereas with direct democracy 'the people' only have themselves to
> blame, since they vote for/against every single law and executive
> order, 

	Well, that would be at least more interesing and honest than
	the system we currently have. The problem remains though, some
	people seem to believe that whatever a majority votes for is
	automatically good or legitimate.


> and in political anarchy, well who knows since we haven't seen
> a large anarchist community AFAICT - perhaps anarchy would be more
> practical and or long lasting than 'western (two) party democracy',
> perhaps it would devolve to a modern tribal type thing... I doubt any
> system will achieve a long lasting utopianism given the average state
> of consciousness of humans on our lovely blue planet.


	I suppose  if we look at the current state of human societies
	the conclusion is warranted...

> 
> 
> Perhaps s/moral/ethical/ ?  


	I think the two words are mostly synonyms. Also, in the past
	people used to talk on one hand about "natural philosophy" (now
	called 'physics' and related scientific disciplines) and on the
	other hand about "moral philosophy" which dealt with  



I have never quite understood why people
> get hung up on these terms - perhaps past experience of religionists
> ramming "Godly morals" down the throat? - if so, take control of the
> word and smite those who would blaspheme the one true definition of
> "moral" according to the god of your own sensible mind! :)
> 
> ("Smite" as in, use words to cut them and slice them to size.)
> Z
> 
> 
> A couple of definitions:
> 
>   Ethics \Eth"ics\ ([e^]th"[i^]ks), n. [Cf. F. ['e]thique. See
>      {Ethic}.]
>      The science of human duty; the body of rules of duty drawn
>      from this science; a particular system of principles and
>      rules concerting duty, whether true or false; rules of
>      practice in respect to a single class of human actions; as,
>      political or social ethics; medical ethics.
>      [1913 Webster]
> 
> From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (20 July 2014) [foldoc]:
>   computer ethics
>   ethics
> 
>      <philosophy> Ethics is the field of study that is concerned
>      with questions of value, that is, judgments about what human
>      behaviour is "good" or "bad".  Ethical judgments are no
>      different in the area of computing from those in any other
>      area.  Computers raise problems of privacy, ownership, theft,
>      and power, to name but a few.
> 
> From WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006) [wn]:
>   ethics
>       n 1: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: {ethical
>            motive}, {ethics}, {morals}, {morality}]
>       2: the philosophical study of moral values and rules [syn:
>          {ethics}, {moral philosophy}]




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 13:12:28 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 18:12:28 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
 <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:48:10 +0000
Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> 
> ~Doug Casey, The Ascendance of Sociopaths in U.S. Governance

	Are you quoting casey at face value or as an example of hollow
	libertarian rhetoric? I think the latter may be closer to the
	truth. 

	(though the bit about the US government being corrupt to the
	point of no return is correct)

	Casey is supposed to be some kind of anarchist, yet the idea
	that a government(american or other) has been taken over by
	'bad' people instead of being originally created by bad people,
	and being ineherently bad, is hardly in line with anarchist
	political analysis.


> 
> http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/
> 




From mjbecze at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 16:05:06 2016
From: mjbecze at gmail.com (Martin Becze)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 19:05:06 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I might
> be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database? There
> are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been accessed,
> much less made their way online.
>
> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from which
> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to directly
> access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at College
> Park, Maryland.*
> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 16:07:30 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 19:07:30 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD. I'm there
on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
some weird-ass censorship.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database?
>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>
>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
>> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from which
>> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to directly
>> access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at College
>> Park, Maryland.*
>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>
>
>
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From mjbecze at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 16:16:52 2016
From: mjbecze at gmail.com (Martin Becze)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 19:16:52 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>

How exactly is the accesses setup? Can we arbitrary software that accesses
DB?

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD. I'm there
> on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
> liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
> some weird-ass censorship.
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database?
>>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>>
>>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
>>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
>>> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from which
>>> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to
>>> directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at
>>> College Park, Maryland.*
>>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>>
>>
>>
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 16:18:54 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 19:18:54 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'll take notes on the access and interface when I'm there next, hopefully
next week.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:

> How exactly is the accesses setup? Can we arbitrary software that accesses
> DB?
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD. I'm
>> there on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
>> liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
>> some weird-ass censorship.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>>>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database?
>>>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>>>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>>>
>>>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>>>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
>>>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
>>>> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from which
>>>> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to
>>>> directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at
>>>> College Park, Maryland.*
>>>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 16 12:48:10 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:48:10 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com> <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>



juan:

> 	Well, yes, a political system based on real, individual consent
> 	is the only system that can claim 'moral superiority'. 
> 
> 	Funnily enough, western political rhetoric/propaganda is based
> 	on the ideas of 'government by consent', 'self-government'
> 	'social contract' and the like. All that stuff logically takes
> 	political anarchy (the abilty for individuals to *actually*
> 	'govern' themselves) for granted. And of course, the members of
> 	the western political mafia/state don't believe or apply a
> 	single word of their own propaganda. Which makes them so morally
> 	un-superior...
> 


"In this article, I’m going to argue that the U.S. government, in
particular, has been overrun by the wrong kind of person. It’s a trend
that’s been in motion for many years but has now reached a point of no
return. In other words, a type of moral rot has become so prevalent that
it’s institutional in nature. There is not going to be, therefore, any
serious change in the direction in which the U.S. is headed until a
genuine crisis topples the existing order. Until then, the trend will
accelerate.

The reason is that a certain class of people – sociopaths – are now
fully in control of major American institutions. Their beliefs and
attitudes are insinuated throughout the economic, political,
intellectual, and psychological/spiritual fabric of the U.S."


~Doug Casey, The Ascendance of Sociopaths in U.S. Governance

http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/

-- 
RR
"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with
mine until it worked..."

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From rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 16 14:01:22 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 22:01:22 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com> <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com> <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
 <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <569ABDB2.5000408@riseup.net>



juan:
> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:48:10 +0000
> Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>> ~Doug Casey, The Ascendance of Sociopaths in U.S. Governance
> 
> 	Are you quoting casey at face value or as an example of hollow
> 	libertarian rhetoric? I think the latter may be closer to the
> 	truth. 
> 
> 	(though the bit about the US government being corrupt to the
> 	point of no return is correct)
> 
> 	Casey is supposed to be some kind of anarchist, yet the idea
> 	that a government(american or other) has been taken over by
> 	'bad' people instead of being originally created by bad people,
> 	and being ineherently bad, is hardly in line with anarchist
> 	political analysis.
> 
> 
>>
>> http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/
>>
> 
> 

I'd like to think his point is the sociological balance is past the
tipping point, 'crossed the rubicon' so to speak, where it's no longer
possible to repair the society to some globally normal state, or get the
sociopaths out of power, if one thinks a capitalist society can be free
of psychopaths and sociopaths in the first place.

Ps. I'm not anal about sources. ANYONE can feel free to note and analyse
the intrinsic problems of society and have their own solutions which I
don't have to accept.

In other words, punch holes in his premise, not his politics.

-- 
RR
"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with
mine until it worked..."

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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 20:03:37 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 23:03:37 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>

I spoke to someone from the list privately and did a little digging - it
looks like the files can't be downloaded or saved electronically, at all,
period. They have to be printed instead, from one of four computers which
are located in College Park, MD (transparency!). So now I'm working on a
plan to print and scan files from CREST. Given the scale (11+ million
pages)...

I plan to be down there on Tuesday; I'll get more information and solid
numbers (document counts, print speeds, etc.) and see where things are from
there. Keep your fingers crossed, I may actually be able to get something.

--Mike

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll take notes on the access and interface when I'm there next, hopefully
> next week.
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How exactly is the accesses setup? Can we arbitrary software that
>> accesses DB?
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD. I'm
>>> there on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
>>> liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
>>> some weird-ass censorship.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>>>>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database?
>>>>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>>>>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>>>>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
>>>>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have
>>>>> been released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from
>>>>> which researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to
>>>>> directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at
>>>>> College Park, Maryland.*
>>>>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From mjbecze at gmail.com  Sat Jan 16 20:08:58 2016
From: mjbecze at gmail.com (Martin Becze)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 23:08:58 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALz06g7L7hHw-0GjODWJd6xmRC6L8PDAxvHdLfXCC2h1xOAAow@mail.gmail.com>

> it looks like the files can't be downloaded or saved electronically, at
all, period. They have to be printed instead

This is such bullshit

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 11:03 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I spoke to someone from the list privately and did a little digging - it
> looks like the files can't be downloaded or saved electronically, at all,
> period. They have to be printed instead, from one of four computers which
> are located in College Park, MD (transparency!). So now I'm working on a
> plan to print and scan files from CREST. Given the scale (11+ million
> pages)...
>
> I plan to be down there on Tuesday; I'll get more information and solid
> numbers (document counts, print speeds, etc.) and see where things are from
> there. Keep your fingers crossed, I may actually be able to get something.
>
> --Mike
>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'll take notes on the access and interface when I'm there next,
>> hopefully next week.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How exactly is the accesses setup? Can we arbitrary software that
>>> accesses DB?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD. I'm
>>>> there on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
>>>> liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
>>>> some weird-ass censorship.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>>>>>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST database?
>>>>>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>>>>>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>>>>>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search Tool),
>>>>>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have
>>>>>> been released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from
>>>>>> which researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order
>>>>>> to directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at
>>>>>> College Park, Maryland.*
>>>>>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 17 10:07:23 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 10:07:23 -0800
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <1529438.IxiQeJThT2@lapuntu>
References: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
 <1529438.IxiQeJThT2@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <569BD85B.50801@riseup.net>

rysiek wrote:
> Dnia czwartek, 14 stycznia 2016 17:33:35 boot at ghostmail.com pisze:
>> Last week, former NSA Director Michael Hayden made a very strong
>> argument against deliberately weakening security products by adding
>> backdoors
>>
>> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/01/michael_hayden_.html
> As a friend pointed out, the actual quote is *very* interesting:
> https://bgr.com/2016/01/13/ex-nsa-chief-hayden-encryption/
>
> “I actually think end-to-end encryption is good for America,” Hayden said. “I
>  know encryption represents a particular challenge _for_the_FBI_. But on
>  balance, I actually think it creates greater security for the American nation
>  than the alternative: a backdoor.”
>
> Get it? Again:
> "I know encryption represents a particular challenge _for_the_FBI_."
>
> Burn noticed!
>

I'll say it again. They need the practice. But build stronger code anyway.

A twitter discussion, on the topic w/ side threads:
https://twitter.com/yashalevine/status/688231815463616512

In summation: https://twitter.com/PolityNews/status/688733948374028288

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 07:55:56 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 10:55:56 -0500
Subject: KM/MANLY (1951-53) - CIA countering the actions of pacifist and
 neutralist groups in West Germany
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-z1sHUaFUqQynfykwVC0iCkctfneUOFSA2dFMcuWWcAw@mail.gmail.com>

KMMANLY (1951-53) was originally designed to counter the actions of
pacifist and neutralist groups in West Germany who were opposed to
ratification of the contractual agreements. In practice KMMANLY sought to
win support for the European Defense Community (EDC) in areas of veterans'
affairs and military publishing. To achieve these aims, three publications
were utilized under KMMANLY -- Die Deutsche Soldaten Zeitung (The German
Soldiers' Newspaper, (DSZ)), Europaische Wehrkorrespondenz (European
Defense Newsletter, (EWK)), Wehr Wissenschaftliche Rundschau (Military
Science Journal, (WWR)). In addition KMMANLY supported the Gesellschaft
fuer Wehrkunde (GfW), a military science study group composed of former
high ranking German Army officers.

Wilhelm Classen (PA), Eberhard Von Nostitz, Burghard Von Preussen, Felix
Steiner associated with GfW part of Project. Josef Berschneider, Hans
Iglhaut, Werner Strecker considered for possible use on KMMANLY.

https://archive.org/details/KMMANLY

Enjoy.

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 17 02:50:00 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:50 +0100
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <1529438.IxiQeJThT2@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 14 stycznia 2016 17:33:35 boot at ghostmail.com pisze:
> Last week, former NSA Director Michael Hayden made a very strong
> argument against deliberately weakening security products by adding
> backdoors
> 
> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/01/michael_hayden_.html

As a friend pointed out, the actual quote is *very* interesting:
https://bgr.com/2016/01/13/ex-nsa-chief-hayden-encryption/

“I actually think end-to-end encryption is good for America,” Hayden said. “I
 know encryption represents a particular challenge _for_the_FBI_. But on
 balance, I actually think it creates greater security for the American nation
 than the alternative: a backdoor.”

Get it? Again:
"I know encryption represents a particular challenge _for_the_FBI_."

Burn noticed!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 17 02:55:35 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:55:35 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20160113151847.GA2520@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu> <20160113151847.GA2520@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <22018726.LqXkqEEtSz@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 13 stycznia 2016 17:18:47 piszesz:
> > > May I ask what percentage of the EU are street policeman (not counting
> > > burocrats) to "protect" the sheeple?
> > 
> > Protect from what, exactly?
> > 
> > > ...And what if half of the 0.03% were armed turrorists?
> > 
> > Seriously, are we going in that direction now? Okay, how about this: what
> > if exactly 2 of these immigrants were armed turrists?
> > 
> > You can pull numbers from your ass, so can I. When you want to get back to
> > a more serious discussion, do tell.
> 
> From my ass, confirmed by journos.
> Over meeelion migrants, according to some meeeelions:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911
> 
> Your ass is off by a factor of about 10 AFAICT.

I still don't see any confirmation of the actual number I referred to as being 
pulled out of your ass, which was -- please try to focus here -- "half of the 
0.03% of them are terrorists".

Keep trying, though. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Jan 17 04:05:34 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:05:34 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
 <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
 <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSUVgwgdF_OUEGZiDwp_hcK70Vvfmr6tgLVLaXVHA6Y5A@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:48:10 +0000
> Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>> ~Doug Casey, The Ascendance of Sociopaths in U.S. Governance
>
> 	Are you quoting casey at face value or as an example of hollow
> 	libertarian rhetoric? I think the latter may be closer to the
> 	truth.
>
> 	(though the bit about the US government being corrupt to the
> 	point of no return is correct)
>
> 	Casey is supposed to be some kind of anarchist, yet the idea
> 	that a government(american or other) has been taken over by
> 	'bad' people instead of being originally created by bad people,
> 	and being ineherently bad, is hardly in line with anarchist
> 	political analysis.

Damn it Juan! I was just about to post a "Thanks Razer, evidently
there's no new thought under the sun" (and Razer, thanks regardless),
then in true form, you point out a fundamental limitation in (in this
case Casey's, and what I thought was my own) presented position.

This highlights for me personally how programmed I am in my think, and
how useful it is to be perpetually reminded of at least one or two of
the limitations of said think. But shit, it's embarrassing how
programmed I am...

I sure f-ing hope -one- of these days I can give "the Juan
clarification" (at least to myself/ in my head) before you yourself do
so. Wow. (Still there's no new thought under the Sun, but how hard is
it to shake one's programming.)

>> http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/
>>
>




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Jan 17 04:12:50 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:12:50 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <569ABDB2.5000408@riseup.net>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
 <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
 <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
 <569ABDB2.5000408@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSR=gd-V2yyqtaBKV1yPNW7=+OX=u_S7FiM3z66KYXQoZw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/16, Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> juan:
>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:48:10 +0000
>> Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> ~Doug Casey, The Ascendance of Sociopaths in U.S. Governance
>>
>> 	Are you quoting casey at face value or as an example of hollow
>> 	libertarian rhetoric? I think the latter may be closer to the
>> 	truth.
>>
>> 	(though the bit about the US government being corrupt to the
>> 	point of no return is correct)
>>
>> 	Casey is supposed to be some kind of anarchist, yet the idea
>> 	that a government(american or other) has been taken over by
>> 	'bad' people instead of being originally created by bad people,
>> 	and being ineherently bad, is hardly in line with anarchist
>> 	political analysis.
>>
>>> http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/
>
> I'd like to think his point is the sociological balance is past the
> tipping point, 'crossed the rubicon' so to speak, where it's no longer
> possible to repair the society to some globally normal state, or get the
> sociopaths out of power, if one thinks a capitalist society can be free
> of psychopaths and sociopaths in the first place.

How could that even be possible? Pre-crime? Statistically some small
percentage of new borns are born to be sociopaths right (from memory 1
to 2%)?

Perhaps, how could it be possible to educate ourselves/ act, such that
those wielding power in whatever social system is in place, are no
more sociopathic than the 'average society member'?

Or is there no hope since sociopaths will always be drawn to any
position of power regardless, and the rest of us will tend to leave
said positions to them and suffer the (repetitive historical)
consequences (the "the only people on juries are those dum enough to
not get off of them" syndrome)?




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 17 03:14:37 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:14:37 +0100
Subject: [Cryptography] Obama gonna crypto your guns,
 they gonna throw the killswitch on yall
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29WO9JX_KERzgzDLdTb8EuJo87y-Okn6sV1PrXrP4cqNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28KYMUwr1_UQvg=0fuHRS1Y8yEVQbhc89nN10-9Fu07EQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <alpine.LFD.2.20.1601081603260.16996@bofh.nohats.ca>
 <CAD2Ti29WO9JX_KERzgzDLdTb8EuJo87y-Okn6sV1PrXrP4cqNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1686844.XUm7D3jJS9@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 8 stycznia 2016 16:46:25 grarpamp pisze:
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Paul Wouters <paul at cypherpunks.ca> wrote:
> > I think it is a bigger problem that people - strike that, Americans -
> > are afraid of killswitches for their guns than that they are about the
> > surveillance and killswitches for self driving cars.

A "killswitch" in a gun is called a "trigger", right? ;)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Jan 17 04:26:09 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:26:09 +0000
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1ScJkcu9vtBkAT4rxEOJQ8N6on8Mcv4tCz5=6woxAugvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1ScJkcu9vtBkAT4rxEOJQ8N6on8Mcv4tCz5=6woxAugvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRqYaN9=MjwgtV1X1EQVGdv0B2a-1nrm+jrj4ff8yXbpg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/16, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/15/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
>> ...
>> I guess that's the ultimate propaganda success really - not being
>> aware that your country is always at war, and pretty much always has
>> been. War is the ultimate rejection and domination of the sovereignty
>> of other nations and individuals.
>
> next question:
>  can you have nation states without war?

That would require a truly benevolent 'dictator' at the top ... Gandhi
when prime minister of India was shot by one of his own security
guards, the Israeli prime minister who got in on a "peace with
Palestinians" platform some years back got shot (by an Israeli),  the
only two US presidents who (attempted to) print greenbacks rather than
borrow from the banks (i.e. reclaim the government's constitutional
money power), got shot, ...

the odds for such leaders don't look so good...

On the other hand, Iceland has jailed at least 26 bankers so far:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iceland-has-jailed-26-bankers-why-wont-we-a6735411.html

so perhaps there's hope... they ousted two full parliaments to get
there though, to full new elections and finally a year(?) long
population-wide new constitution creation which on the face of it
appears to be genuinely by the people themselves, and also clearly
-for- themselves, having rejected any bail-in or bail-out for the
failed commercial private banks that brought that country to its
financial knees.

Seems a genuinely community-based groundswell is needed for genuinely
'good' change, if nothing else...




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 17 03:30:11 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:30:11 +0100
Subject: Happy new year cpunks
In-Reply-To: <20160101161020.GB2484@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160101161020.GB2484@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1644991.SOOg8Exszj@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 1 stycznia 2016 18:10:20 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> Let in 2016 the establishment be overthrown, provably unbreakable crypto
> be implemented

...on provably unbreakable and not tampered hardware, might I add.

> and we can buy love and beer at reasonable price
> (as Terry Pratchett wrote).

Hear hear!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 03:46:25 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:46:25 +0100
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1ScJkcu9vtBkAT4rxEOJQ8N6on8Mcv4tCz5=6woxAugvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/15/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> ...
> I guess that's the ultimate propaganda success really - not being
> aware that your country is always at war, and pretty much always has
> been. War is the ultimate rejection and domination of the sovereignty
> of other nations and individuals.

next question:
 can you have nation states without war?



> PS If anyone can get/ leak the real/ original British Queen Elizabeth
> II's (alleged) Christmas message from December 2015, that would be
> freakin punk! (That would be the one where she says "enjoy your last
> Christmas" if the allegation has any truth to it.) Any good high-brow
> British cp's round here? Onion links acceptable...

paging TheCthulhu... paging TheCthulhu to information freedom dept...
if anyone can get it, he's got a good shot!  ;P




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 03:55:28 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:55:28 +0100
Subject: making better earth humans [was: Self Preservation and Irreversible
 Decline]
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Sw8OOV9DSxG00SnO+tjzW4ETd2WW2+CWDakCw5Hnpxyg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>     [ ... insert feedback loop of awful here... ]
> "a picture is worth...."


this is funny and accurate! i have no political disposition, no
"team". early on studying decentralization of technology it became
clear you need decentralization of all things, there is no place to
define a delineation safely.

decentralization as driving force in implies that every node must rise
to the challenge.  in the technical realm this is a fun detour through
information security, accuracy, and byzantine tolerance, among many
obscure details.

but in earth humans, it means the utmost moral imperative is:
 making better earth humans!

first step of this process being education.


best resources for educating future generations of cypherpunks?




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 04:31:25 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:31:25 +0100
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and
 PrivaTegrity without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <1809780336.5312290.1452762345600.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5695BBE0.20606@videotron.ca>
 <1809780336.5312290.1452762345600.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TkTyc_s0q5CDaEnHUTJ8jCijdiGuaHn1GhBV0wK9fLiA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/14/16, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ... The main criticism I had
> of this was the fact that the system was said to have a minimum bid of 1
> BTC, which at the time was somewhere around $1000.  This, contrasting with
> my Assassination Politics essay of 1995-96 where I anticipated allowing bits
> of 10 cents.
> Assassination Market did not explain a lot of what I had considered
> necessary for a functioning such system. How can a potential donor trust the
> system?  How can a potential 'predictor' trust the system?  How to collect?I
> never tried to research into this, because I judged that to do so would be a
> little too 'hot' for me to do.

i am curious how you arrived at a determination of what was "too hot" :)

how do you pick where to draw that line?
 *he says with a toe on something very hot...*


>  Did any donations actually appear on the
> system after its initial announcement?  Did any new names/targets appear?

there were a few targets added, "bid" transactions successful,
 yet my attempt to add my own life to list was for naught. :/

maybe i didn't pay enough... ?
  https://blockchainbdgpzk.onion/address/1P6yannm6Rx9kkMH5LxmAsi1GdZ4JZG73T


best regards,




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 17 04:32:41 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:32:41 +0100
Subject: making better earth humans [was: Self Preservation and
 Irreversible Decline]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Sw8OOV9DSxG00SnO+tjzW4ETd2WW2+CWDakCw5Hnpxyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Sw8OOV9DSxG00SnO+tjzW4ETd2WW2+CWDakCw5Hnpxyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4460308.cU5ogYVd3g@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 17 stycznia 2016 12:55:28 coderman pisze:
> best resources for educating future generations of cypherpunks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy_%28novel%29

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 04:35:34 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:35:34 +0100
Subject: [cryptome] Re: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1S_dWveFU4WQa=AqXTuExzpTECyjZrsFMpEhN_mTWGgQA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> I spoke to someone from the list privately and did a little digging - it
> looks like the files can't be downloaded or saved electronically, at all,
> period. They have to be printed instead, from one of four computers which
> are located in College Park, MD (transparency!). So now I'm working on a
> plan to print and scan files from CREST. Given the scale (11+ million
> pages)...

it's almost like they want to claim transparency in empty words,
 and frustrate it at all points through deterrent actions... hmm!



> I plan to be down there on Tuesday; I'll get more information and solid
> numbers (document counts, print speeds, etc.) and see where things are from
> there. Keep your fingers crossed, I may actually be able to get something.

can you bring in a raspberry pi with battery pack to act as a printer
on the local network and then "print" to a 200G microSD slotted in it?

:P

#OpCIADox




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 04:47:47 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:47:47 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R2q166W_pwJwA67VT4peV+RhCjYb-Dk+b0qauzrSV+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R2q166W_pwJwA67VT4peV+RhCjYb-Dk+b0qauzrSV+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u=64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw@mail.gmail.com>

still have one FOIA left for January; trying to pick a topic...

it must beat this one, in terms of poking bear caliber:
'''
Records of any communication, agreements, transcripts, memorandum of
understanding, contracts, or other responsive materials relating to
Ibragim Todashev as an Undercover Employee, Informant, or Cooperating
Witness with the Bureau before his death on May 22, 2013 at age 27 in
Florida while being interviewed about his possible connection to a
triple murder in Waltham, Mass., on Sept. 11, 2011. Note that while
the content of conversation may be withheld for privacy and other
reasons, the existence of these conversations or other law
enforcements records may not be concealed. Please search
cross-references for Ibragim Todashev that may reveal such
communication, in addition to primary indexes. Thank you!
'''
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/inducedbytrap-23480/


best regards,




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sun Jan 17 12:23:14 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:23:14 -0600
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453062194.2952.3.camel@moonpatrol>

On Sun, 2016-01-17 at 14:52 -0500, Michael Best wrote:
> Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's
> justified and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never
> dies, I suppose. =( 

Yeah, it's about as transparent as Dr Pepper (the soft drink itself, not
the company).

How much does it cost to print each page? I'm pretty sure they would
charge at least 10¢ per page, plus tax (that's about what FedEx Office
and our local libraries charge). That doesn't sound too bad, until you
realize 1,000 pages costs $100 to print. And then there's the weight of
1,000 printed pages...

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From ler762 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 11:50:24 2016
From: ler762 at gmail.com (Lee)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:50:24 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD.

If anyone can access the database from a laptop on the guest wireless
then something like
  https://www.att.com/devices/netgear/beam.html
would give the rest of the world access.  But if access is allowed
from only a NARA computer you're pretty much SOL..

> I'm there
> on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
> liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
> some weird-ass censorship.

Not at all weird; it seems pretty effective to me.  Over 11 million
pages "released" and only 10% _printed_ (as in someone would have to
scan the page to get it back into electronic format) sounds like a
pretty good access control system for something you don't really want
to make public.

Regards,
Lee


>
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
>>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST
>>> database?
>>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
>>> accessed, much less made their way online.
>>>
>>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
>>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search
>>> Tool),
>>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
>>> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from
>>> which
>>> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to directly
>>> access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at College
>>> Park, Maryland.*
>>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
>>>
>>
>>
>




From themikebest at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 11:52:52 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:52:52 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Not at all weird; it seems pretty effective to me.  Over 11 million
> pages "released" and only 10% _printed_ (as in someone would have to
> scan the page to get it back into electronic format) sounds like a
> pretty good access control system for something you don't really want
> to make public.


Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's justified
and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never dies, I suppose.
=(

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Lee <ler762 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/16/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD.
>
> If anyone can access the database from a laptop on the guest wireless
> then something like
>   https://www.att.com/devices/netgear/beam.html
> would give the rest of the world access.  But if access is allowed
> from only a NARA computer you're pretty much SOL..
>
> > I'm there
> > on a semi-regular basis and want to figure out a way to efficiently
> > liberate the docs that are only accessible from there....because that's
> > some weird-ass censorship.
>
> Not at all weird; it seems pretty effective to me.  Over 11 million
> pages "released" and only 10% _printed_ (as in someone would have to
> scan the page to get it back into electronic format) sounds like a
> pretty good access control system for something you don't really want
> to make public.
>
> Regards,
> Lee
>
>
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Can anyone access the CREST db? Do I need any specail permission?
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm spending a fair amount of time at NARA II. Any thoughts on how I
> >>> might be able to automate retrieval of documents from the CREST
> >>> database?
> >>> There are about 10 million pages of CIA docs that haven't even been
> >>> accessed, much less made their way online.
> >>>
> >>> Since 2000, CIA has installed and maintained an electronic full-text
> >>> searchable system, which it has named CREST (the CIA Records Search
> >>> Tool),
> >>> at NARA II in College Park, Maryland. *Over 11 million pages have been
> >>> released in electronic format and reside on the CREST database, from
> >>> which
> >>> researchers have printed about 1.1 million pages. **In order to
> directly
> >>> access CREST, a researcher must visit the National Archives at College
> >>> Park, Maryland.*
> >>> http://www.foia.cia.gov/collection/crest-25-year-program-archive
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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From ler762 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 12:26:13 2016
From: ler762 at gmail.com (Lee)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:26:13 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD8GWsvTOEdkUjudjkZ6T88B0xS-5Tj2LNA+7djtCxkjEdcTEw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not at all weird; it seems pretty effective to me.  Over 11 million
>> pages "released" and only 10% _printed_ (as in someone would have to
>> scan the page to get it back into electronic format) sounds like a
>> pretty good access control system for something you don't really want
>> to make public.
>
>
> Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's justified
> and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never dies, I suppose.
> =(

Where is it presented as a transparency tool?  They seem to be real
clear about what they're doing:
  "In order to directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the
National Archives at
   College Park, Maryland. CIA recognizes that such visits may be
inconvienent and
   present an obstacle to many researchers."

Regards,
Lee




From ler762 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 12:27:28 2016
From: ler762 at gmail.com (Lee)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 15:27:28 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1T=r02E-7AUVZBwM9er6As1_kg2OvofNEDyzw3P4p+9fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T=r02E-7AUVZBwM9er6As1_kg2OvofNEDyzw3P4p+9fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD8GWss+M7NiaG6Yu_aPdDGPUt=hWPH_9V-D_yLPq4R1EkypFw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/16, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/17/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>...
>> Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's
>> justified
>> and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never dies, I suppose.
>> =(
>
>
> "Better than nuthin', see?"

We're obeying the law, see?




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 12:36:25 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:36:25 -0300
Subject: US State Of New York to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
In-Reply-To: <1529438.IxiQeJThT2@lapuntu>
References: <e29fb1d355096512793e7592442fd049@www.ghostmail.com>
 <1529438.IxiQeJThT2@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <569bfb8a.8b1b8c0a.ee136.ffffa20f@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:50 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia czwartek, 14 stycznia 2016 17:33:35 boot at ghostmail.com pisze:
> > Last week, former NSA Director Michael Hayden made a very strong
> > argument against deliberately weakening security products by adding
> > backdoors
> > 
> > https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/01/michael_hayden_.html
> 
> As a friend pointed out, the actual quote is *very* interesting:
> https://bgr.com/2016/01/13/ex-nsa-chief-hayden-encryption/
> 
> “I actually think end-to-end encryption is good for America,” Hayden
> said. “I know encryption represents a particular challenge
> _for_the_FBI_. But on balance, I actually think it creates greater
> security for the American nation than the alternative: a backdoor.”
> 
> Get it? Again:
> "I know encryption represents a particular challenge _for_the_FBI_."


	What are we supposed to get, exactly? 

	Do you think the propaganda that comes from that worthless
	shitbag hayden or any similar animal is true?






> 
> Burn noticed!
> 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 12:51:04 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:51:04 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSUVgwgdF_OUEGZiDwp_hcK70Vvfmr6tgLVLaXVHA6Y5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RVZjsfYZ2-ysi+omKTOxWCq13r8C176zOFnPreKz-jxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5696d3e5.118f8c0a.dcb70.7e81@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSBbc4U3r5cEVPZS2eUGMwJ3LhK5Y0WcoX=2GQS-1oWSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <569aa71a.4cd6370a.e7ed3.37bc@mx.google.com>
 <569AAC8A.8040309@riseup.net>
 <569ab27e.8e668c0a.8a3f.3d64@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSUVgwgdF_OUEGZiDwp_hcK70Vvfmr6tgLVLaXVHA6Y5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569bfefa.0c30370a.877e4.ffffcae3@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:05:34 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> This highlights for me personally how programmed I am in my think, and
> how useful it is to be perpetually reminded of at least one or two of
> the limitations of said think. But shit, it's embarrassing how
> programmed I am...

	Well, once you realize you are programmed, then you are
	not programmed anymore =P 



> 
> I sure f-ing hope -one- of these days I can give "the Juan
> clarification" (at least to myself/ in my head) before you yourself do
> so. 

	I don't want to claim more credit than I deserve, which is
	basically...none.


Wow. (Still there's no new thought under the Sun, but how hard is
> it to shake one's programming.)
> 
> >> http://kickass-cookies.co.uk/the-ascendance-of-sociopaths-in-u-s-governance/
> >>
> >




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 13:12:12 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:12:12 -0300
Subject: making better earth humans [was: Self Preservation and
 Irreversible Decline]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Sw8OOV9DSxG00SnO+tjzW4ETd2WW2+CWDakCw5Hnpxyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Sw8OOV9DSxG00SnO+tjzW4ETd2WW2+CWDakCw5Hnpxyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569c03ee.76208c0a.3d54f.ffffa33e@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 12:55:28 +0100
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/16/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >     [ ... insert feedback loop of awful here... ]
> > "a picture is worth...."

	I guess you can see a positive feedback of bad in that picture.
	But I think the point being made is that the 'logic' of
	government advocates is circular, that is, flawed. 

> 
> 
> this is funny and accurate! i have no political disposition, no
> "team". early on studying decentralization of technology it became
> clear you need decentralization of all things, there is no place to
> define a delineation safely.

	... and no 'central authority' in the realm of politics means
	the state must be gone...


 
> decentralization as driving force in implies that every node must rise
> to the challenge.  in the technical realm this is a fun detour through
> information security, accuracy, and byzantine tolerance, among many
> obscure details.
> 
> but in earth humans, it means the utmost moral imperative is:
>  making better earth humans!
> 
> first step of this process being education.
> 
> 
> best resources for educating future generations of cypherpunks?







From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 13:22:12 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:22:12 -0300
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RMq=Q5pCfnAJR+ZETEL14jBsmGjqT3GfuUif7SzB1WMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1ScJkcu9vtBkAT4rxEOJQ8N6on8Mcv4tCz5=6woxAugvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRqYaN9=MjwgtV1X1EQVGdv0B2a-1nrm+jrj4ff8yXbpg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RMq=Q5pCfnAJR+ZETEL14jBsmGjqT3GfuUif7SzB1WMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569c0646.07f68c0a.9f6b8.ffffa8bf@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 20:46:40 +0100
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> related:
> 
> '''
> In Stayin’ Alive, his powerful history of the “last days” of the
> working class, the historian Jefferson Cowie describes how the proud
> blue-collar identity of previous generations disintegrated during the
> ’70s. “Liberty has largely been reduced to an ideology that promises
> economic and cultural refuge from the long arm of the state,” 


	Yes, that's a good description of what freedom is (the state
	does include interest groups that are not direct and official
	part of the state)


> he
> writes, “while seemingly lost to history is the logic that culminated
> under the New Deal: 

	new deal = hight point of american fascism.


> that genuine freedom could only happen within a
> context of economic security.” 

	So, american fascists get to redefine 'true' freedom. Priceless.

	
	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfSU-VGixjM



As working-class solidarity receded, an
> identity built on racial tribalism often swept in.
> '''
>  -
> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/01/white-working-class-poverty/424341/
> 
> The Atlantic
> All Hollowed Out
> 
> The lonely poverty of America’s white working class
> Eric Thayer / Reuters     Victor Tan Chen Jan 16, 2016 Business
> 
>




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 09:24:29 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:24:29 +0100
Subject: Post-"Pre-Publication Review" by DIA censored words "SIGINT" and
 "Ned Beatty"
In-Reply-To: <56992950.3020302@riseup.net>
References: <56992950.3020302@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TKc1N1Fckb9yeesjAs0FzHhncp496Xx_O1_z=2fZYmpw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/15/16, Razer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> Not JUST FOIAs.
>
> Fixing Pre-Publication Review: What Should Be Done?

i've found the most effective method to avoid pre-publication hassles
 is to never be read in, in the first place.  ;)


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 15:36:55 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:36:55 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28GgdcgMwo6-DAfL-uFPcSg2pJc1fXtc_gxFg25TV15hg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone can access it, but only from NARA II at College Park, MD.

Probably not. Not unless you have a REAL-ID or passport to get past
the goons theatre desk, submit yourself to logging, camera and cell
surveillance, nightly janitorial DNA vacuuming, etc.

> I'm there
> on a semi-regular basis

> because that's some
> weird-ass censorship.

Some weird ass chilling.

So you could tell us of that.

> and want to figure out a way to efficiently liberate
> the docs that are only accessible from there....

GPIO driven keyboard and mouse,
to camera screencap then OCR.
General takeover of workstation.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 11:46:40 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 20:46:40 +0100
Subject: Self Preservation and Irreversible Decline [was: Electronic
 Freedom Foundation selective in support of freedom]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRqYaN9=MjwgtV1X1EQVGdv0B2a-1nrm+jrj4ff8yXbpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TR=8yLxnqRia44uhLZhMhoRBNvHpMrWneNO7egi+mFtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56928ad3.454d370a.dd4d3.ffffb84e@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RU8htvg5Ygzv=PipAVrfzbn8SHAMSOPhgZDZTb_0PMjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5692f66e.08c48c0a.b1ea8.559b@mx.google.com>
 <5695C7FB.7020906@videotron.ca>
 <5695cfc4.45288c0a.c1440.787e@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSThry1R98=q=Sv1+uNPBDCS16UnLmR0f6b6_ZYaU5idTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1ScJkcu9vtBkAT4rxEOJQ8N6on8Mcv4tCz5=6woxAugvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRqYaN9=MjwgtV1X1EQVGdv0B2a-1nrm+jrj4ff8yXbpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RMq=Q5pCfnAJR+ZETEL14jBsmGjqT3GfuUif7SzB1WMQ@mail.gmail.com>

related:

'''
In Stayin’ Alive, his powerful history of the “last days” of the
working class, the historian Jefferson Cowie describes how the proud
blue-collar identity of previous generations disintegrated during the
’70s. “Liberty has largely been reduced to an ideology that promises
economic and cultural refuge from the long arm of the state,” he
writes, “while seemingly lost to history is the logic that culminated
under the New Deal: that genuine freedom could only happen within a
context of economic security.” As working-class solidarity receded, an
identity built on racial tribalism often swept in.
'''
 - https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/01/white-working-class-poverty/424341/

The Atlantic
All Hollowed Out

The lonely poverty of America’s white working class
Eric Thayer / Reuters     Victor Tan Chen Jan 16, 2016 Business

For the last several months, social scientists have been debating the
striking findings of a study by the economists Anne Case and Angus
Deaton.* Between 1998 and 2013, Case and Deaton argue, white Americans
across multiple age groups experienced large spikes in suicide and
fatalities related to alcohol and drug abuse—spikes that were so large
that, for whites aged 45 to 54, they overwhelmed the dependable modern
trend of steadily improving life expectancy. While critics have
challenged the magnitude and timing of the rise in middle-age deaths
(particularly for men), they and the study’s authors alike seem to
agree on some basic points: Problems of mental health and addiction
have taken a terrible toll on whites in America—though seemingly not
in other wealthy nations—and the least educated among them have fared
the worst.

Meanwhile, other recent research has piled on the bad news for those
without college degrees. A Pew study released last month found that
the size of the middle class—defined by a consistent income range
across generations—has shrunk over the last several decades. In part,
this is because high-paying jobs for the less educated are vanishing.
The study builds on other recent research that finds that almost all
the good jobs created since the recession have gone to college
graduates.

The workers I interviewed after the recession for my book on
unemployment—less-educated factory workers—offer some tentative clues
about what might be driving the disquieting trends described by the
Case and Deaton study. This is one of the groups hit hardest by the
rising inequality and greater risk of unemployment and financial
insecurity that have become features of today’s economy, and their
experiences put in concrete terms how the economy and culture have
become more hostile to workers not lucky enough to be working in posh
offices on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley.

One man I talked to was 47 years old, the son of a Detroit factory
worker who headed into the plants himself. (As is standard in
sociology, my interviewees were promised confidentiality.) He told me
how he recently lost his $11-an-hour job: He was driving a forklift at
his company’s plant when he accidentally crashed into a ladder. No one
was hurt and nothing was damaged—but he was an at-will worker at a
company with no union, and he was fired. Shortly afterward, his wife,
who was making $8 an hour at a cleaning company, decided to leave him.
The stress of failing to find a job and being alone made him too
depressed to eat, and he started taking antidepressants.

When it comes to explaining American economic trends, it is important
to remember how critical a role manufacturing and unions have played
in the building—and now dismantling—of a strong middle class. For
generations, factories provided good jobs to people who never went to
college, allowing families—first white ethnic immigrants, and then
others—to be upwardly mobile. Bringing together large numbers of
people under a single roof, factory jobs were also relatively easy to
organize. As the sociologists Bruce Western and Jake Rosenfeld have
argued, unions at their prime helped create a “moral economy” in which
wages rose both in firms with unions and those without them, and in
which the average worker had a notable voice—however compromised back
then by nativism and other exclusionary tendencies—lobbying on their
behalf in Washington.

But in the late ’90s—the beginning of the crisis period that Case and
Deaton identify—the number of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. dropped
dramatically. Intensified by free-trade deals such as NAFTA, the
hollowing-out of American industry then was much greater, in terms of
the absolute number of jobs lost, than what the country experienced
during its first wave of deindustrialization.

Twenty years ago, union membership—in decline since the ’60s—fell to a
level not seen since the Great Depression. For various reasons, it
became much harder to pursue the sorts of collective action that
unions once cultivated throughout the economy—that is, banding
together to convince companies and governments to treat employees
better. Free trade and automation undercut the bargaining positions of
the working class. Political leaders, bankrolled by the wealthy,
rolled back the interventionist policies of the New Deal and postwar
period. Corporations, once relatively tolerant of unions, tapped a
cottage industry of anti-union consultants and adopted unseemly
tactics to crush any organizing drives in their workplaces.

As organized labor in this country has withered, an extreme
individualism has stepped in as the alternative—a go-it-alone
perspective narrowly focused on getting an education and becoming
successful on one’s own merit. This works well for some, but for
others—especially the two-thirds of Americans over the age of 25 who
don’t have a bachelor’s degree—it often means getting mired in an
economy of contract work, low pay, and few, if any, benefits. These
prospects suggest that this is an age of diminished expectations for
the working class.

Certainly, it cannot be said enough that African Americans and Latinos
continue to fare significantly worse than whites in terms of their
overall rates of death and disease, even if the racial gap has
narrowed. Indeed, the broader story that many commentators seem to
have neglected in recent months is the decline of the working class as
a whole. In the decades after World War II, racial minorities were
denied many of the jobs, loans, and other resources that allowed the
white majority to buy homes and accrue wealth. If the gains of
economic growth have gone largely to the rich in recent years, in that
earlier period the white working class could count on hefty rises in
living standards from generation to generation, and they grew
accustomed to that upward trajectory of growing prosperity. When the
labor market turned against them, they had the hardest fall.
Many in the working class are going without marriage—a form of social support.

Any explanation of the ominous trends in the Case and Deaton study is,
at the moment, speculative. More research is needed, as social
scientists like to say, and there are numerous caveats. For example,
while the disappearance of high-paying jobs for those with little
education is a large part of the overall story of a shrinking middle
class, it can’t wholly account for the uptick of mortality identified
in the Case and Deaton study. After all, other countries have not seen
similar hikes in deaths, even though manufacturing and (to a lesser
extent) union membership have crumbled abroad as well.

Likewise, the groups that have been affected most viciously by these
market trends in the U.S., African Americans and Latinos, have not
suffered the dramatic increases in death by suicide or substance abuse
that whites have. It may be that changes in the economy have affected
these workers in different ways. For instance, whites are more likely
to be employed in the declining manufacturing sector than African
Americans or Hispanics—and for that matter, they’re more likely to
live in the rural communities devastated by this most recent,
post-NAFTA era of deindustrialization. Furthermore, whites are less
likely to be union members than African Americans (though not Asians
or Hispanics).

Yet there is clearly more to the despair of the working class than
empty wallets and purses. Patches of the social fabric that once
supported them, in good times and bad, have frayed. When asked in
national surveys about the people with whom they discussed “important
matters” in the past six months, those with just a high-school
education or less are likelier to say no one (this percentage has
risen over the years for college graduates, too). This trend is
troubling, given that social isolation is linked to depression and, in
turn, suicide and substance abuse.
Related Story

Middle-Aged White Americans Are Dying of Despair

One form of social support that many in the working class are going
without is marriage. I’m reminded of another worker I interviewed, a
jobless 54-year-old white woman who used to work at a Ford plant. Her
husband left her, she says, when the paychecks stopped coming. “Jesus
Christ,” she told him once. “I didn’t think that our relationship was
based on the amount of money that I brought in.” Unable to pay her
mortgage, she lost her home and had to move in, as she puts it, with a
“man friend.” She is depressed, unable to sleep at night, and
constantly worried about falling into poverty. “I’m a loser,” she
says.

As scholars of family life as politically distinct as Andrew Cherlin
and Charles Murray have stressed, college graduates and the less
educated have greatly diverged in terms of when and how they partner
up and have kids. Nowadays, well-educated couples are much more likely
to marry, stay married, and have children within marriage than those
with less schooling. The white working class in particular is seeing
sharp drops in these indicators—again, not to the levels of nonwhites,
but a drastic reversal all the same, and one that has intensified over
the last few decades.

A large part of the explanation for this must be that society’s
attitudes about the sanctity and permanence of marriage have changed.
But it’s important to note that there is an economic dimension to
these trends, too—as the frequent separations and divorces I saw among
the long-term unemployed made plain to me. Those struggling
financially are less likely to follow the traditional path of first
comes marriage, then comes a baby. And if they do choose to get
married, there is little room for unemployment. As the Detroit man who
lost his job told me, he and his wife split up “because she’s working,
and … I don’t have any money coming in.” They had been fighting over
finances even before he lost his job, he points out, but the arguments
grew more heated afterward. In a lone-wolf economy, as sociologists
Kathryn Edin and Maria Kefalas have argued, why take a chance on a
partner down on his luck when you’re just barely surviving yourself?

The waning of religious belief may be another trend aggravating the
modern malaise of the white working class. Since the ’90s, the number
of Americans who declare no religious preference on surveys has almost
tripled—from 8 percent at the beginning of that decade, to 21 percent
in 2014. Whites fall disproportionately into this camp. The
religiously unaffiliated are not necessarily secular in their outlook.
Many of them are spiritually inclined but skeptical of organized
religion—especially its intrusion into politics. However, in the
absence of any other source of social support and collective meaning
(say, unions), there’s less in the way of psychological protection
from the slings and arrows of American society.

This sort of isolation was common among the people I talked to. Many
said their faith was helping them get through their ongoing troubles,
yet they rarely or never went to church. Some felt ashamed to be
around people because they were out of work. For others, their
religious belief was somewhat a source of self-help, rather than a
source of community. For example, one of the workers I interviewed
said that being out of work for so long had filled him with a constant
rage. To calm his mind, every night he would pick up his Bible and
read a dozen verses. He had given up on the church and what he
described as its superficial ways. “I want to go to hear the Word—I
don’t want to go to see what you’re wearing,” says the man, 53 and
from Flint, Michigan. The other way he copes is going outside for a
smoke.

For this man and many like him, there is no one to talk to, no one to
rely on. “Nowadays, you got people you really can’t trust, man,” he
says. “You can’t call everybody your friend.” As the ties that bind
them to others have unraveled, the working class has become an ever
lonelier crowd.
Policies to keep people from sinking into poverty and long-term
unemployment could make a huge difference.

The larger context of this isolation and alienation is America’s
culture of individualism. It, too, can worsen the despair. Taken to an
extreme, self-reliance becomes a cudgel: Those who falter and fail
have only themselves to blame. They should have gotten more education.
They should have been more prepared. On this score, too, the U.S.
deviates from other wealthy nations. America’s frontier spirit of
rugged individualism is strong, and it manifests itself differently by
race and education level, too. White Americans, for instance, are more
likely to see success as the result of individual effort than African
Americans are (though not Hispanics). The less educated, particularly
less-educated whites, also share this view to a disproportionate
degree.

In Stayin’ Alive, his powerful history of the “last days” of the
working class, the historian Jefferson Cowie describes how the proud
blue-collar identity of previous generations disintegrated during the
’70s. “Liberty has largely been reduced to an ideology that promises
economic and cultural refuge from the long arm of the state,” he
writes, “while seemingly lost to history is the logic that culminated
under the New Deal: that genuine freedom could only happen within a
context of economic security.” As working-class solidarity receded, an
identity built on racial tribalism often swept in.

With that in mind, it’s interesting that Americans tout the importance
of getting an education—an inherently individualistic strategy—as the
pathway to success. This view was the ideological backbone of the
Clinton administration policies put forth in the ’90s, with their
individual training accounts and lifetime-learning credits. To this
day, the supreme value of education remains one of the few things that
Americans of all persuasions (presidential candidates included) can
agree on. But this sort of zeal can lead to the view that those who
have less education—the working class—are truly to blame for their
dire straits. While many of them will go on to obtain more education,
many others will not—because they can’t afford it, aren’t good
students, or just (as some of my workers said) prefer working with
their hands. But if they don’t collect the educational degrees needed
for today’s good jobs, they are made to feel that they have failed in
a fundamental way.

Some of the analysis of the Case and Deaton article has focused
rightly on recent developments in this country’s drug crisis—namely,
the surge in abuse of prescription opioids, and the resurgence in
heroin use, notably among whites. There is clearly a pressing need to
deal more vigorously with this drug problem and the epidemic of fatal
overdoses and liver disease that has affected the poor and working
class in particular.

At the same time, it should be said that risky individual behaviors
are shaped by broader social conditions. As the researchers Bruce Link
and Jo Phelan have argued, effective health interventions need to
consider the underlying factors that put people “at risk of
risks”—specifically, socioeconomic status and social support. Seeing
this big picture is important because blocking one pathway to disease
or death—say, opioid abuse—may just lead to people to opt for another
deadly means of coping with the pain of their poor life prospects.

One parting observation, then, is that policies to keep people from
sinking into poverty and long-term unemployment can make a huge
difference. In advanced industrial nations that have stronger social
safety nets, the working class is not experiencing the rising death
rates that Case and Deaton identified. Abroad, many of the
working-class unemployed benefit from a financial backstop of sorts
that keeps them from hurtling into the deepest forms of desperation.
Here in the U.S. they would too, if only there were such a thing.

* This article originally named one of the co-authors of this paper as
Susan Case. We regret the error.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 12:21:00 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 21:21:00 +0100
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1T=r02E-7AUVZBwM9er6As1_kg2OvofNEDyzw3P4p+9fg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/17/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>...
> Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's justified
> and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never dies, I suppose.
> =(


"Better than nuthin', see?"

:P




From rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 17 21:04:15 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 05:04:15 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=e2=80=9cYour_Account_May_Have_Been_Targeted_by_State-Spo?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?nsored_Actors=e2=80=9d?=
Message-ID: <569C724F.1090603@riseup.net>

Just Security's editor:

This post is the latest installment of our “Monday Reflections” feature,
in which a different Just Security editor examines the big stories from
the previous week or looks ahead to key developments on the horizon.

The end of 2015 brought a flurry of announcements from tech companies,
including Facebook, Yahoo, and Microsoft, promising to notify their
users if the company believes that state-sponsored actors are targeting
the users’ accounts. These state-sponsored-attacker notifications share
features of other kinds of attributions. On the one hand, like the
Mandiant report and other reports by cybersecurity companies
highlighting state-sponsored cyberintrusions, private companies are
responsible for the attribution. On the other hand, like the limited
evidentiary disclosures made by the US government in attributing the
Sony Pictures hack to North Korea, the companies withhold the
evidentiary basis for the notifications in order to protect their
detection methods and avoid tipping off attackers.

The notifications contribute to evolving debates about the requisite
evidentiary basis for attribution of state-sponsored
cyberattacks—debates over types of evidence, amounts of evidence, and
levels of public disclosure that should be required for attribution in
different contexts. The notifications also show that while standards of
evidence for attribution are discussed in multilateral fora like the
United Nations, states are not the only parties whose practice matters.

Company Notifications

Google pioneered notifications to users about state-sponsored attacks in
2012. The company explained in a blog post at the time that in response
to “specific intelligence—either directly from users or from [its] own
monitoring efforts”—it would display a banner stating “Warning: We
believe state-sponsored attackers may be attempting to compromise your
account or computer.”

Facebook made a similar announcement in October 2015. In a blog post by
Chief Security Officer Alex Stamos, Facebook explained that it would
show users a warning if the company has “a strong suspicion that an
attack could be government-sponsored.” According to the New York Times,
in the wake of the Iranian nuclear deal and “[j]ust weeks into the new
[Facebook] alert system,” numerous State Department officials who work
on Iran and the Middle East received notifications that their accounts
had been targeted by a state-sponsored actor.

In mid-December, Twitter, which had not previously announced a policy on
state-sponsored attacks, notified some users that their accounts “may
have been targeted by state-sponsored actors,” who were “trying to
obtain information such as email addresses, IP addresses, and/or phone
numbers.” (A copy a notification sent to another user is available here.)

On December 21, Yahoo Chief Information Security Officer Bob Lord
announced that “Yahoo will now notify you if we strongly suspect that
your account may have been targeted by a state-sponsored actor.”
Microsoft followed suit on December 30, announcing in a blog post by
Corporate Vice President for Trustworthy Computing Scott Charney that
Microsoft “will now notify you if we believe your account has been
targeted or compromised by an individual or group working on behalf of a
nation state.”

According to the companies, they issue notifications for state-sponsored
attackers in particular because, as Facebook explains, “these types of
attacks tend to be more advanced and dangerous than others.” The
notifications are intended to prompt users to better secure their
account with the notifying company and other online accounts by, for
example, enabling two-step verification, changing passwords, and
monitoring for unusual activity.

Similarities to and Differences From Other Attributions to Nation-States

The state-sponsored-attacker notifications share similarities with prior
attributions by both the private sector and the US government. On the
one hand, the notifications (and the attributions supporting them) are
done by private companies, like the reports on state-sponsored
intrusions issued by cybersecurity companies like Mandiant and
Crowdstrike that I discussed in an earlier post.

On the other hand, unlike the extensive technical details that often
accompany such reports (see, for example, the Mandiant APT1 report), the
state-sponsored-attacker notifications do not come with evidence to back
up the attribution. Google’s post on the notifications explains: “You
might ask how we know this activity is state-sponsored. We can’t go into
the details without giving away information that would be helpful to
these bad actors, but our detailed analysis—as well as victim
reports—strongly suggest the involvement of states or groups that are
state-sponsored.” Facebook’s post similarly states, “To protect the
integrity of our methods and processes, we often won’t be able to
explain how we attribute certain attacks to suspected attackers.” The
invocation of secrecy to protect “methods and processes” echoes similar
statements made by the FBI in announcing the attribution of the Sony
Pictures hack to North Korea. The FBI press release explained that the
“need to protect sensitive sources and methods” prevented the Bureau
from sharing details of its evidence against North Korea. The FBI
provided a general description of the evidence supporting the
attribution, including, for example, “significant overlap between the
infrastructure used in this attack and other malicious cyber activity
the U.S. government has previously linked directly to North Korea.” But
the lack of detailed information triggered significant skepticism within
the security community, prompting FBI Director James Comey to release
additional information several weeks later.

Unlike the other types of attribution, the state-sponsored-attacker
notifications do not name the state involved. They simply inform a user
that some “state-sponsored actor” has targeted the user’s account. Of
course, upon receipt of a notification, some users may have a pretty
good idea which state is targeting them, and the pattern of accounts
targeted may reveal the state’s identity to the company or to the public
if/when the notifications become public. That may be what happened with
the Facebook notifications to State Department employees discussed
above. Still, the notifications’ failure to name the particular state
involved renders them somewhat less accusatory than attributions that
name a specific state...

In full, with links:
https://www.justsecurity.org/28731/your-account-targeted-state-sponsored-actors-attribution-evidence-state-sponsored-cyberattacks/

-- 
RR
"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around with
mine until it worked..."

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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 17 23:14:54 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 08:14:54 +0100
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>

SeppuKuma also offers 23 very different methods one can choose to end
their life, including Everlasting Sleep (lethal injection), Pillow
Kisses (suffocation), Peaceful Breath (helium asphyxia) and Sleepy
time Hug which is where the robotic bear strangles its partner until
their pulse stops for 15 minutes.  All of these attributes enable the
SeppuKuma to give it’s patient the power to choose how they get to end
their own life.

- http://www.iflscience.org/japan-engineers-design-robotic-bear-to-aid-in-assisted-suicide/
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Jan 18 09:18:00 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:18:00 -0800
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569D1E48.1040709@riseup.net>

Travis Biehn wrote:
> Awesome.
>
> Also fake.

Awww... I really wanted the chance to wrestle with the suicide bear.

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


>
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/science/suicidebear.asp
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:14 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com
> <mailto:coderman at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     SeppuKuma also offers 23 very different methods one can choose to end
>     their life, including Everlasting Sleep (lethal injection), Pillow
>     Kisses (suffocation), Peaceful Breath (helium asphyxia) and Sleepy
>     time Hug which is where the robotic bear strangles its partner until
>     their pulse stops for 15 minutes.  All of these attributes enable the
>     SeppuKuma to give it’s patient the power to choose how they get to end
>     their own life.
>
>     -
>     http://www.iflscience.org/japan-engineers-design-robotic-bear-to-aid-in-assisted-suicide/
>


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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 07:07:00 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 10:07:00 -0500
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome.

Also fake.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/science/suicidebear.asp

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:14 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> SeppuKuma also offers 23 very different methods one can choose to end
> their life, including Everlasting Sleep (lethal injection), Pillow
> Kisses (suffocation), Peaceful Breath (helium asphyxia) and Sleepy
> time Hug which is where the robotic bear strangles its partner until
> their pulse stops for 15 minutes.  All of these attributes enable the
> SeppuKuma to give it’s patient the power to choose how they get to end
> their own life.
>
> -
> http://www.iflscience.org/japan-engineers-design-robotic-bear-to-aid-in-assisted-suicide/
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 07:32:52 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 10:32:52 -0500
Subject: FBI on MLK Jr.
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-zoRyP=EDzAGa5_vmXzA+qzabdF652LDnoV4yDPqcsUw@mail.gmail.com>

Since it's today, I thought I'd share some of my MLK files.

FBI Surveillance of Martin Luther King Jr.
https://archive.org/details/nsia-KingMartinLutherKingJrDrFBISurveillanceEtcOPR

Martin Luther King Jr. wiretaps
https://archive.org/details/nsia-KingMartinLutherJrDrWiretapsPost-Assassination

FBI Field Office Records Inventory re: MLK Assassination
https://archive.org/details/nsia-KingMartinLutherJrDrAssassinationFBIFieldOfficeRecordsInventory


J. Edgar Hoover's personal file on Martin Luther King Jr.
https://archive.org/details/nsia-

FBIHooverJEdgarPersonalFileOnMartinLutherKingJr
Martin Luther King Jr. and associates FBI files
https://archive.org/details/MLKFBI


There should be at least one more MLK assassination related doc coming
later today, watch That1Archive <http://That1Archive.neocities.org> for it
and other goodies.

--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Jan 18 11:44:05 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:44:05 -0800
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA08n3rsC_dfbTQVkOFmzbJvHcYY7+Nd4yBsQVxx=fG5dpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA08n3rsC_dfbTQVkOFmzbJvHcYY7+Nd4yBsQVxx=fG5dpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569D4085.9090201@riseup.net>

Janet Reno's United States Department of Justice Investigation of Recent
Allegations Regarding the Assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
June 2000

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/websites/usdojgov/www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/mlk/part1.htm

Michael Best wrote:
> It's outside the realm of your usual FOIA requests, but since I'm out
> of requests for the month (and already bought more than a few
> extra...) I figured I'd mention it. 
>
> While posting docs related to the MLK assassination trial
> <http://that1archive.neocities.org/subfolder1/MLK-assassination-trial.html>,
> I realized that Loyd Jowers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyd_Jowers>, who confessed to playing
> a part in the MLK assassination a few months before his death, surely
> has an FBI file. The DOJ did a follow-up investigation and their
> report concluded he and the other witnesses were lying, but it'd be
> interesting to see what the FBI had on him and what materials the
> DOJ/FBI referenced beyond the trial transcript. 
>
> Let me know if you file anything on it, otherwise I'll try to get to
> it next month (unless I get distracted by other shiny
> FOIAs/projects/IRL (what do I mean, this listserv isn't real?!?) stuffs). 
>
> --Mike
> *
> *
> *coderman* coderman at gmail.com 
> <mailto:coderman%40gmail.com?Subject=Re%3A%20FOIPA%20adventures&In-Reply-To=%3CCAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u%3D64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
> /Sun Jan 17 07:47:47 EST 2016/
>  
>
>     still have one FOIA left for January; trying to pick a topic... it
>     must beat this one, in terms of poking bear caliber:
>     '''
>     Records of any communication, agreements, transcripts, memorandum of
>     understanding, contracts, or other responsive materials relating to
>     Ibragim Todashev as an Undercover Employee, Informant, or Cooperating
>     Witness with the Bureau before his death on May 22, 2013 at age 27 in
>     Florida while being interviewed about his possible connection to a
>     triple murder in Waltham, Mass., on Sept. 11, 2011. Note that while
>     the content of conversation may be withheld for privacy and other
>     reasons, the existence of these conversations or other law
>     enforcements records may not be concealed. Please search
>     cross-references for Ibragim Todashev that may reveal such
>     communication, in addition to primary indexes. Thank you!
>     '''
>     -
>     https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/inducedbytrap-23480/
>     best regards,
>
>


-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."


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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 08:46:19 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:46:19 -0500
Subject: FBI on MLK Jr.
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0-zoRyP=EDzAGa5_vmXzA+qzabdF652LDnoV4yDPqcsUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-zoRyP=EDzAGa5_vmXzA+qzabdF652LDnoV4yDPqcsUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA08pG2YMSLEWYWeH54+DYXLuRb35tQbSNdReyBbVprd_Uw@mail.gmail.com>

It didn't take as long as I thought it might to put the info together.

In December 1993, Lloyd Jowers appeared on ABC's Prime Time Live and
related the details of an alleged conspiracy involving the Mafia and the
U.S. government to kill King. According to Jowers, James Earl Ray was a
scapegoat, and was not responsible for the assassination. Jowers said that
he hired Memphis police Lieutenant Earl Clark to fire the fatal shot. The
existence of such a conspiracy, and Jowers' involvement, was supported in
the verdict of a 1998 court case which was brought against Jowers by the
King family. The allegations and the finding of the Memphis jury were later
rejected by the United States Department of Justice in 2000.

In 1998, the King family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Jowers and
"other unknown co-conspirators" for the murder of King. The King family was
represented by attorney William Pepper, who had previously served as the
attorney of James Earl Ray, King's formerly accused assassin. After four
weeks of testimony and over 70 witnesses in a civil trial in Memphis,
Tennessee, twelve jurors reached a unanimous verdict on December 8, 1999
after about an hour of deliberations that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was
assassinated as a result of a conspiracy which also involved "others,
including governmental agencies."

Mrs. Coretta Scott King commented on the verdict, saying, “There is
abundant evidence of a major high level conspiracy in the assassination of
my husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. And the civil court's unanimous verdict
has validated our belief. I wholeheartedly applaud the verdict of the jury
and I feel that justice has been well served in their deliberations. This
verdict is not only a great victory for my family, but also a great victory
for America."

Page includes Investigation and Trial resources:

   - Coretta Scott King, et al. VS. Loyd Jowers, et al trial transcript (*13
   volumes, 2,735 pages*)
   - Trial Evidence
   - Department of Justice Investigation and Report
   - King Family Press Conference on the MLK Assassination Trial Verdict


Full report and links posted to
http://that1archive.neocities.org/subfolder1/MLK-assassination-trial.html
​
--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org

P.S. Bonus link:
https://archive.org/details/nationalsecurityarchive?and[]=martin%20luther%20king
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 08:58:47 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:58:47 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CAD8GWsvTOEdkUjudjkZ6T88B0xS-5Tj2LNA+7djtCxkjEdcTEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsvTOEdkUjudjkZ6T88B0xS-5Tj2LNA+7djtCxkjEdcTEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_VjD6y3KnfhKO__dtHt7oG5=dN-5Cju8gSZbe46VhFUQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have the beginnings of a plan for this; I'll share more as soon as I
double check a few things and run some numbers.

I shall call it... Project OPERATION.

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Lee <ler762 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/17/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Not at all weird; it seems pretty effective to me.  Over 11 million
> >> pages "released" and only 10% _printed_ (as in someone would have to
> >> scan the page to get it back into electronic format) sounds like a
> >> pretty good access control system for something you don't really want
> >> to make public.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately you're right. The weird part to me is the way it's
> justified
> > and presented as a transparency tool! Double speak never dies, I suppose.
> > =(
>
> Where is it presented as a transparency tool?  They seem to be real
> clear about what they're doing:
>   "In order to directly access CREST, a researcher must visit the
> National Archives at
>    College Park, Maryland. CIA recognizes that such visits may be
> inconvienent and
>    present an obstacle to many researchers."
>
> Regards,
> Lee
>
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 08:59:33 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:59:33 -0500
Subject: Tracking GLOMAR
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_+vBQoTtDsKyZcBgBnAnJcj1EBmJJPHLy=9Jfk+ovMZg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know about any projects that are collecting or tracking GLOMAR
responses? A quick Google search didn't turn anything up, but it could be
worthwhile.
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 09:54:36 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 12:54:36 -0500
Subject: FOIPA adventures
Message-ID: <CANFTA08n3rsC_dfbTQVkOFmzbJvHcYY7+Nd4yBsQVxx=fG5dpQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's outside the realm of your usual FOIA requests, but since I'm out of
requests for the month (and already bought more than a few extra...) I
figured I'd mention it.

While posting docs related to the MLK assassination trial
<http://that1archive.neocities.org/subfolder1/MLK-assassination-trial.html>,
I realized that Loyd Jowers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyd_Jowers>,
who confessed to playing a part in the MLK assassination a few months
before his death, surely has an FBI file. The DOJ did a follow-up
investigation and their report concluded he and the other witnesses were
lying, but it'd be interesting to see what the FBI had on him and what
materials the DOJ/FBI referenced beyond the trial transcript.

Let me know if you file anything on it, otherwise I'll try to get to it
next month (unless I get distracted by other shiny FOIAs/projects/IRL (what
do I mean, this listserv isn't real?!?) stuffs).

--Mike

*coderman* coderman at gmail.com
<coderman%40gmail.com?Subject=Re%3A%20FOIPA%20adventures&In-Reply-To=%3CCAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u%3D64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
*Sun Jan 17 07:47:47 EST 2016*


> still have one FOIA left for January; trying to pick a topic... it must
> beat this one, in terms of poking bear caliber:
> '''
> Records of any communication, agreements, transcripts, memorandum of
> understanding, contracts, or other responsive materials relating to
> Ibragim Todashev as an Undercover Employee, Informant, or Cooperating
> Witness with the Bureau before his death on May 22, 2013 at age 27 in
> Florida while being interviewed about his possible connection to a
> triple murder in Waltham, Mass., on Sept. 11, 2011. Note that while
> the content of conversation may be withheld for privacy and other
> reasons, the existence of these conversations or other law
> enforcements records may not be concealed. Please search
> cross-references for Ibragim Todashev that may reveal such
> communication, in addition to primary indexes. Thank you!
> '''
> -
> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/inducedbytrap-23480/
> best regards,
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 11:12:30 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:12:30 -0500
Subject: US Pres Cand's Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley... All For Crypto
 Backdoors, Secret Negotiations
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_WZjAOK9R1MUH0aAFBwPYYUpeQdYnCNyQan8dYjRk4FA@mail.gmail.com>

http://it.slashdot.org/story/16/01/18/1659205/clinton-hints-at-tech-industry-compromise-over-encryption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2Nokoq1J4&t=2h27m08s
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/18/hillary-clinton-hints-at-apple-facebook-compromise-over-encryption_n_9008034.html

At the Democratic presidential debate last night, Marques Brownlee
asked the candidates a pointed question about whether the government
should require tech companies to implement backdoors in their
encryption, and how we should balance privacy with security. The
responses were not ideal for those who recognize the problems with
backdoors. Martin O'Malley said the government should have to get a
warrant, but skirted the rest of the issue. Bernie Sanders said
government must "have Silicon Valley help us" to discover information
transmitted across the internet by ISIS and other terrorist
organizations. He thinks we can do that without violating privacy, but
didn't say how. But the most interesting comment came from Hillary
Clinton. After mentioning that Obama Administration officials had
"started the conversation" with tech companies on the encryption
issue, one of the moderators noted that the government "got nowhere"
with its requests. Clinton replied, "That is not what I've heard. Let
me leave it at that." The implications of that small comment are
troubling.




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Mon Jan 18 14:16:32 2016
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:16:32 -0800
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CALz06g7L7hHw-0GjODWJd6xmRC6L8PDAxvHdLfXCC2h1xOAAow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7QSOYb0aVN1RpP15XEKc4OG9W5jrEpspPa7J8yOjigBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA08nLTCWnVi8EOnA+ykyy_y-pVsnqnHXXbH-=U2CZYXqSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09j2L5FKgvg2+CvTT42f1tkP_iEdwDFoCK5vt7m2uWajg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7L7hHw-0GjODWJd6xmRC6L8PDAxvHdLfXCC2h1xOAAow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160118141632.a46c6e5947bb0739761c93d5@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 23:08:58 -0500
Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:

> > it looks like the files can't be downloaded or saved electronically, at
> all, period. They have to be printed instead
> This is such bullshit

Print everything to PDF?

Some shell hackery with wget or cURL and pipe through ImageMagick's convert command?

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"We're going to start building everything out of bamboo and duct tape."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWnWRAAAoJED1np1pUQ8RkyHsP/2vo7db4cc04HDAaYKl9fPMX
VcZgUXOCYdeifGu49HVMHyu/+1ZHmAaE/OesY8emHmEapf5TeeFxwHgSeoqfJUS1
Vm/3jzzPFmsZJfeG7tc5fzJecNRxJCfYSmBTT13Km/P7Z7bXiLCX2H2/JKlVgN7H
3WUTogGtdrHzxAs0TLnCuTss/pdyp23sfx3Qt6YEYfqwSUkWF3EVaRozdEbVwQ+i
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a/x49+8fOa3HDsZ2RQgq+/FhM2Al3Vkp2QxaRfRrLeL1KiSMFLyK1x72RLpUVlpo
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qkwSZopu2I30znc1OR6o
=luP4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 11:23:26 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:23:26 -0500
Subject: CREST: CIA Records Search Tool
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_VjD6y3KnfhKO__dtHt7oG5=dN-5Cju8gSZbe46VhFUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0-SCqBMX1UPrUjPpO0LmrihuJX32rHRY7yqMuzDXyd1rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g7Pb1+hwxMRGAjBzkcAr+OarCnUVu77=eTJj1Z=jdjJ8A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0-_urL-kHL42ub3QYWjc0XNX++A6xT4eaPengpqpW=6iA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsskLnZyp6eT2FX9-0m8Hx8P83MxdPyuJsHwRwx1fV5_QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA09SHpwVHFTbiut3Wbd=33PZD9z3u-h-Zbf37PUmieDcjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsvTOEdkUjudjkZ6T88B0xS-5Tj2LNA+7djtCxkjEdcTEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANFTA0_VjD6y3KnfhKO__dtHt7oG5=dN-5Cju8gSZbe46VhFUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29LjdeJRm=T4iNG_tnXN06W-qLkZ_KAi5gJSEWxezB7mQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have the beginnings of a plan for this; I'll share more as soon as I
> double check a few things and run some numbers.
>
> I shall call it... Project OPERATION.

Mail them an 8TB drive in your foia for a digital copy
of the dataset, they're only $225.




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Jan 18 07:08:29 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:08:29 +0200
Subject: Avoid beta testing medical drugs, you can die
In-Reply-To: <20160116174706.GC10881@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20160115152148.GA2429@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20160116174706.GC10881@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <20160118150829.GA2402@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 11:47:06AM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> And Cannabis-based painkiller? Wouldn't it be cheaper for a flight
> to the mile-high-city? What are these drugmakers smoking?

Does the substance of the painkiller matter?

It could be bat's shit or Melinda Gates' menstruation (if any).




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Mon Jan 18 19:30:16 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:30:16 -0600
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
References: <CAH8YiRGYsoD8+SY9ykMBrSP-d0ewoJKpesf8G1aw_KLb-3u=5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160109034315.C077CA06DA5@palinka.tinho.net>
 <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2637825.fEraJcxBr0@tc-secure>
Message-ID: <1453174216.2889.1.camel@moonpatrol>

On Mon, 2016-01-11 at 22:15 -0800, Alex Stahl wrote:
> Second, he implied that, with the use of these policies, if a message
> were to traverse a network with nodes operated by the US, Canada,
> Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, China and Japan, it would
> require the admins from those countries to all agree to decrypt,
> turning the solution into a political - not mathematical - one.

The whole point of cryptography is to be secure against political
problems such as this. Despite whatever good Chaum may be known for,
this is bad, and not something I will ever use if I can possibly help
it.

> 

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From hozer at hozed.org  Mon Jan 18 19:43:10 2016
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:43:10 -0600
Subject: TheCthulhu (CthulhuSec)'s Insurance File
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09uGJcYgbMUg3j9tT4YNnB2P4kBZHsKLWA3haSTbQr5zA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA09uGJcYgbMUg3j9tT4YNnB2P4kBZHsKLWA3haSTbQr5zA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160119034310.GA21671@nl.grid.coop>

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 09:55:31PM -0500, Michael Best wrote:
> https://insurance.thecthulhu.com/
> 
> 
> > I would like to ask the public for help. My freedom may soon be
> > compromised, and therefore I require assistance to see out a final stage.
> 
> I cannot comment on the contents of the container below other than it
> > contains pdfs, word documents, powerpoints, images and a few sql dumps.
> > Every person who downloads this for the record is doing a service for
> > democracy, and should hold people accountable for their atrocities.
> > When the time comes, I will ensure the passphrase for the container is
> > published either through myself or by proxy. I am not the only person with
> > it either.
> > To my friends out there, here is something to consider:
> > https://www.intelexit.org
> > I will not be intimidated. I am not afraid. I know the consequences, and I
> > accept them.
> > With the power of democracy, comes the responsibility of defending it from
> > any threat.

Fascinating stuff.

And because I had a little too much paranoia to drink this morning, which
nation-state(s) are sponsoring intelexit with double and triple agents?

But let's think about this... Let us use the power and paranoia that comes
from living in the no such agency in a match of psycho-therapeutic ju-jitsu
in which German intelligence, the Mossad, and China collaborate to provide
post-traumatic stress disorder treatment for all of our wounded information
warriors.

Would not all of our intelligence agencies stand to gain in collective 
intelligence by helping those who are morally opposed to the game, to 
exit the game, and **live to speak of it**?? 

This is a serious question for those of you who swore an oath to uphold
the constitution and still believe you are doing it. You have collegues
who are abusing you, your friends, and demeaning the very organization 
you work for. The greatest danger to national security is those that 
keep and use secrets for personal gain and power.

If you do not wish to exit, then make it so others can, easily, simply,
and quietly. There is no need for unintended acceleration when someone 
wants to slow down and get out.

Or, at the very least, what secrets can you gain from the other side(s)
when their battered and broken soldiers have had enough? Is this not worth
the investment in allowing a graceful exit?




From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 18:55:31 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:55:31 -0500
Subject: TheCthulhu (CthulhuSec)'s Insurance File
Message-ID: <CANFTA09uGJcYgbMUg3j9tT4YNnB2P4kBZHsKLWA3haSTbQr5zA@mail.gmail.com>

https://insurance.thecthulhu.com/


> I would like to ask the public for help. My freedom may soon be
> compromised, and therefore I require assistance to see out a final stage.

I cannot comment on the contents of the container below other than it
> contains pdfs, word documents, powerpoints, images and a few sql dumps.
> Every person who downloads this for the record is doing a service for
> democracy, and should hold people accountable for their atrocities.
> When the time comes, I will ensure the passphrase for the container is
> published either through myself or by proxy. I am not the only person with
> it either.
> To my friends out there, here is something to consider:
> https://www.intelexit.org
> I will not be intimidated. I am not afraid. I know the consequences, and I
> accept them.
> With the power of democracy, comes the responsibility of defending it from
> any threat.

SHA1: 2300 C680 5A95 D14A 75C0 9136 D28A 6459 42A6 1027

SHA256: 39D4 3376 8682 0821 36DF BF75 83B5 F6C0 7619 ADF5 8039 403F 9995
> C8FE 0245 DC75



Download links on TheCthuhu's page: https://insurance.thecthulhu.com/
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 19:53:07 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:53:07 -0500
Subject: TheCthulhu (CthulhuSec)'s Insurance File
In-Reply-To: <20160119034310.GA21671@nl.grid.coop>
References: <CANFTA09uGJcYgbMUg3j9tT4YNnB2P4kBZHsKLWA3haSTbQr5zA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160119034310.GA21671@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-D57TU7+TfnDsL=TqUcHE_woX+FicSf5V9gXWzvNXp6Q@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Would not all of our intelligence agencies stand to gain in collective
> intelligence by helping those who are morally opposed to the game, to
> exit the game, and **live to speak of it**??


Absolutely. It's a shitty situation for some counterintelligence folks
since it boils down to something that only hurts their Intel Community and
helps the opposition but there's nothing inherently wrong/bad with the
effort and the people behind it might not even be indirectly sponsored by a
foreign intelligence service.

This is a serious question for those of you who swore an oath to uphold
> the constitution and still believe you are doing it. You have collegues
> who are abusing you, your friends, and demeaning the very organization
> you work for. The greatest danger to national security is those that
> keep and use secrets for personal gain and power.


I personally think that in most cases it's better to make a difference from
inside than outside. There are exceptions and situations where that's
impossible, of course, and sometimes an external shock to the system is
necessary to instigate change... but it's always uncontrolled. I want
people to stick around to fix things, not exit and point out the problems.
That's a very personal choice with a lot of variables though, so I respect
people that come to a different conclusion.

If you do not wish to exit, then make it so others can, easily, simply,
> and quietly. There is no need for unintended acceleration when someone
> wants to slow down and get out.


100% agree, with the additional thought that the exit interviews should try
to find a way to 1. solve the problem and 2. hopefully retain the employee.

Or, at the very least, what secrets can you gain from the other side(s)
> when their battered and broken soldiers have had enough? Is this not worth
> the investment in allowing a graceful exit?


And now we get into the CI nightmare again. It can be a ripe field for
recruiting, theoretically. At least one study (I think more, but can't be
sure off the top of my head) has shown that for people who were current and
active personnel at the time, ideology played a relatively low motivation
in betrayals and leaks (to the press or foreign agencies). Usually it's
money or revenge, both of which could certainly play a role for people
exiting the service.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:43 PM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 09:55:31PM -0500, Michael Best wrote:
> > https://insurance.thecthulhu.com/
> >
> >
> > > I would like to ask the public for help. My freedom may soon be
> > > compromised, and therefore I require assistance to see out a final
> stage.
> >
> > I cannot comment on the contents of the container below other than it
> > > contains pdfs, word documents, powerpoints, images and a few sql dumps.
> > > Every person who downloads this for the record is doing a service for
> > > democracy, and should hold people accountable for their atrocities.
> > > When the time comes, I will ensure the passphrase for the container is
> > > published either through myself or by proxy. I am not the only person
> with
> > > it either.
> > > To my friends out there, here is something to consider:
> > > https://www.intelexit.org
> > > I will not be intimidated. I am not afraid. I know the consequences,
> and I
> > > accept them.
> > > With the power of democracy, comes the responsibility of defending it
> from
> > > any threat.
>
> Fascinating stuff.
>
> And because I had a little too much paranoia to drink this morning, which
> nation-state(s) are sponsoring intelexit with double and triple agents?
>
> But let's think about this... Let us use the power and paranoia that comes
> from living in the no such agency in a match of psycho-therapeutic ju-jitsu
> in which German intelligence, the Mossad, and China collaborate to provide
> post-traumatic stress disorder treatment for all of our wounded information
> warriors.
>
> Would not all of our intelligence agencies stand to gain in collective
> intelligence by helping those who are morally opposed to the game, to
> exit the game, and **live to speak of it**??
>
> This is a serious question for those of you who swore an oath to uphold
> the constitution and still believe you are doing it. You have collegues
> who are abusing you, your friends, and demeaning the very organization
> you work for. The greatest danger to national security is those that
> keep and use secrets for personal gain and power.
>
> If you do not wish to exit, then make it so others can, easily, simply,
> and quietly. There is no need for unintended acceleration when someone
> wants to slow down and get out.
>
> Or, at the very least, what secrets can you gain from the other side(s)
> when their battered and broken soldiers have had enough? Is this not worth
> the investment in allowing a graceful exit?
>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 19:12:15 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 00:12:15 -0300
Subject: Chaum Fathers Bastard Child To RubberHose ... PrivaTegrity cMix
In-Reply-To: <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAKtE3zficYU=uVsx45bBruzo-1n6xYM5BgjbPoVArjrTb8gG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160115231742.73056A06D97@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <569da9d5.476a8c0a.4b63b.ffff8185@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 15 Jan 2016 18:17:42 -0500
dan at geer.org wrote:


> That being said, I would suspect that any system which permits
> absolutely zero recourse against things done with it that a super
> majority of citizens considers abhorrent 


	It would be pretty funny to learn what the word 'abhorent' is
	supposed to mean here. 

	Are we talking about the endless crimes commited by government
	officials? 

	What kind of 'abhorrent' things can be done with the shitty
	internet apart from posting picures on facebook and the like? 



	





From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 19:41:38 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 04:41:38 +0100
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
In-Reply-To: <569D1E48.1040709@riseup.net>
References: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <569D1E48.1040709@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RL=sUNgvAndD=MwkqsWpJhmrHBCsa8FxCXBC+wYhCevA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> ...
> Awww... I really wanted the chance to wrestle with the suicide bear.


perhaps solace on a thrill ride of elegance and euphoria?

http://julijonasurbonas.lt/euthanasia-coaster/



don't tell me they're not going to build that either, Travis!  :o
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From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 19:55:41 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 04:55:41 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <569D4085.9090201@riseup.net>
References: <CANFTA08n3rsC_dfbTQVkOFmzbJvHcYY7+Nd4yBsQVxx=fG5dpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <569D4085.9090201@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QC_1GeQ0w+4Hpkeu=H1KLpvRiD+-S=pd=fW1a9tgQXpg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> Janet Reno's United States Department of Justice Investigation of Recent
> Allegations Regarding the Assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
> June 2000
>
> http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/websites/usdojgov/www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/mlk/part1.htm


quite a read!  thanks :)

[ see investigative approach; why CIA also involved? hmm.. ]




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 20:26:47 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:26:47 +0100
Subject: [cryptome] Tracking GLOMAR
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_+vBQoTtDsKyZcBgBnAnJcj1EBmJJPHLy=9Jfk+ovMZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0_+vBQoTtDsKyZcBgBnAnJcj1EBmJJPHLy=9Jfk+ovMZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RViAf=8yc1m8_ia3n5DEsku6tP1uJaTVPhqasZ5MX1MQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/16, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know about any projects that are collecting or tracking GLOMAR
> responses? A quick Google search didn't turn anything up, but it could be
> worthwhile.

i am tracking them in my own MuckRock requests,
 but there is no distinct "Glomar" state for them, crowd on same
"Rejected" status.

a richer annotation of refusals would be useful. let us know if you
find something better!

:)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 20:31:09 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:31:09 +0100
Subject: US Pres Cand's Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley... All For Crypto
 Backdoors, Secret Negotiations
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_WZjAOK9R1MUH0aAFBwPYYUpeQdYnCNyQan8dYjRk4FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_WZjAOK9R1MUH0aAFBwPYYUpeQdYnCNyQan8dYjRk4FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1T5wsyAaCUvokBYzi+PwmMARQPN=vviOw34hcLUepGTZg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/16, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...Bernie Sanders said
> government must "have Silicon Valley help us" to discover information
> transmitted across the internet by ISIS and other terrorist
> organizations. He thinks we can do that without violating privacy, but
> didn't say how.

time to lobby Bernie for warrant to hack approach. :)

consistent with tech building strong end-to-end crypto, too...



> But the most interesting comment came from Hillary
> Clinton. After mentioning that Obama Administration officials had
> "started the conversation" with tech companies on the encryption
> issue, one of the moderators noted that the government "got nowhere"
> with its requests. Clinton replied, "That is not what I've heard. Let
> me leave it at that." The implications of that small comment are
> troubling.

the spooks showed up to say, "easy way? or hard way."
  as they gestured at piles of money, or National Security Letters...




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 20:35:17 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:35:17 +0100
Subject: Avoid beta testing medical drugs, you can die
In-Reply-To: <20160116174706.GC10881@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20160115152148.GA2429@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20160116174706.GC10881@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TRjP_MOz8aFR8xcwM7g0YvSwpzqr2B4oWtgrh9sZ9O3g@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/16, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:
> ...
> And Cannabis-based painkiller? Wouldn't it be cheaper for a flight
> to the mile-high-city? What are these drugmakers smoking?


a long and sordid story behind this statement of similarity.

of course it would be cheaper to buy the dank naturals,
 but also impossible to patent.

see Big Pharma cares about money, not health. therefore, their
incentive is to destroy cannabis in the marketplace (or the courts)
while capitalizing on its chemical benefits through close analogues
which they can then patent and sell for their coffers of lucre.


Big Pharma != Health.
Big Pharma == $$$ (for them)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 18 20:57:54 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 05:57:54 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u=64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TeC_fjcQqs8XfQaA94R69g9FKOicENiP-pr02B26-owQ@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R2q166W_pwJwA67VT4peV+RhCjYb-Dk+b0qauzrSV+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u=64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R+k6xijceMjb94S_KzFYjnJt5gMC8h+9masVks1c1_aw@mail.gmail.com>

reply received!

"Count of Level 4 - National Security Special Sensitive SSBI or
SSBI-PR clearance screenings performed by year, for all years with
responsive records."

Fiscal Year:  SSBI count
2005: 93801
2006: 90733
2007: 107747
2008: 111799
2009: 100623
2010: 108149
2011: 106214
2012: 93776
2013: 97611
2014: 70361
2015: 59795

Fiscal Year:  SSBI-PR count
2005: 52201
2006: 76869
2007: 84815
2008: 67543
2009: 55745
2010: 54363
2011: 71138
2012: 58381
2013: 55492
2014: 54850
2015: 35489

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/level4up-22366/#file-71419


best regards,




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 19 01:19:58 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 09:19:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and
 PrivaTegrity without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TkTyc_s0q5CDaEnHUTJ8jCijdiGuaHn1GhBV0wK9fLiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TkTyc_s0q5CDaEnHUTJ8jCijdiGuaHn1GhBV0wK9fLiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <794489901.1837891.1453195198870.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


 

      From: coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 

On 1/14/16, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ... The main criticism I had
>> of this was the fact that the system was said to have a minimum bid of 1
>> BTC, which at the time was somewhere around $1000.  This, contrasting with
>> my Assassination Politics essay of 1995-96 where I anticipated allowing bits
>> of 10 cents.
>> Assassination Market did not explain a lot of what I had considered
>> necessary for a functioning such system. How can a potential donor trust the
>> system?  How can a potential 'predictor' trust the system?  How to collect?I
>> never tried to research into this, because I judged that to do so would be a
>> little too 'hot' for me to do.

>i am curious how you arrived at a determination of what was "too hot" :)>how do you pick where to draw that line?>*he says with a toe on something very hot...*
It was more of an educated guess.  I knew that I hadn't been promoting AP, yetsomebody was seemingly trying to bring it into reality, or saying they were.  Themost likely scenario, given that this person had contacted me, is that he (they) weresimply trying to discredit me.  To avoid that happening, and to 'kill two birds withone stone', I threw that hot potato to Andy Greenberg.  (I was not at all happy with Greenberg, who greatly misrepresented 'facts' about me in his book).   I figuredthat Greenberg wouldn't do anything with this contact, which would allow me to usehis negligence to discredit him.  Very surprisingly, to me, Greenberg actually wrotean article and published in Forbes!  Literally within hours, many dozen other articles appeared in other media, and in the end it probably was hundreds of articlesover the next year or so.

>>  Did any donations actually appear on the
>> system after its initial announcement?  Did any new names/targets appear?
>there were a few targets added, "bid" transactions successful,
>yet my attempt to add my own life to list was for naught. :/
>maybe i didn't pay enough... ?
 > https://blockchainbdgpzk.onion/address/1P6yannm6Rx9kkMH5LxmAsi1GdZ4JZG73T
I expected to, within a few weeks or months, read many articles publishing details.  But no,all the rest were seemingly just rehashes of Greenberg's.   So, I learned very little.  ButI _DID_ learn that that system wouldn't be successful:  At the very least, it would have hadto convince the public that they could trust the system to operate reliably, and that neveroccurred.The only public criticism I voiced was the fact that the system didn't accept individual donationslower than 1 BTC.  Most people would be willing to throw a penny, nickel, dime, quarter, ordollar into a wishing well.  But nearly $1000?  Highly unlikely.  It was one choice that virtually guaranteed failure, even if everything else was done right. I am now, however, paying attention to Auger and Ethereum, which if they meet their impliedpromises, will actually do the job.
        Jim Bell


  
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From dan at geer.org  Tue Jan 19 07:10:17 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:10:17 -0500
Subject: Cryptsy theft->bankruptcy
Message-ID: <20160119151017.5BF39A06E31@palinka.tinho.net>

...You probably want to see the article (jpegs of relevance)...

www.databreachtoday.com/bitcoin-heist-steals-millions-from-exchange-a-8803

   Cryptsy Faces Potential Bankruptcy Over Just-Revealed 2014 Hack
   Mathew J. Schwartz (euroinfosec) o January 15, 2016

   Bitcoin Heist Steals Millions from Exchange

   Cryptocurrency exchange Cryptsy, which trades bitcoins as well
   as more than 100 types of "altcoins" such as litecoin and namecoin,
   disclosed Jan. 15 that it was robbed in 2014. As a result of the
   breach, the exchange has now suspended all trades and says it
   will file for bankruptcy unless the stolen bitcoins are returned.

   Florida-based Cryptsy says the attacker stole 13,000 bitcoins,
   worth $5 million today, as well as 300,000 litecoins, worth
   $970,000 today. The exchange says the theft was not related to
   the recent phishing and distributed denial-of-service attacks
   that it's suffered. It suspects that the most recent developer
   behind Lucky7Coin - LK7 - is the culprit behind the attacks,
   based on a backdoor that it found inside its network.

   "About a year and a half ago, we were alerted ...  a reduction
   in our safe/cold wallet balances of bitcoin and litecoin, as
   well as a couple other smaller cryptocurrencies," Cryptsy says
   in a blog post. It says its investigation ultimately found that
   the developer of the Lucky7Coin cryptocurrency "had placed an
   IRC backdoor into the code of
    wallet, which allowed it to act as a sort of a Trojan, or
   command-and-control unit."

   The exchange adds: "This Trojan had likely been there for months
   before it was able to collect enough information to perform the
   attack," which was executed on July 29, 2014. A user of code-sharing
   site GitHub in March 2015 detailed that apparent backdoor in the
   Lucky7Coin IRC code, noting that it would give an attacker "the
   ability to run arbitrary commands on the victim's host."

   Cryptsy suspects that whoever originally developed Lucky7Coin
   isn't responsible for the backdoor, but rather someone named
   "Jack," who claimed to have taken over development of the
   cryptocurrency codebase and related code, and who contacted
   Cryptsy on May 22, 2014. "You're the only exchange for this coin
   and I hope you will let me take care of it. I'm responsible,"
   Jack claimed.

Message From New Lucky7Coin Developer

   [Cryptsy-720.jpg] Cryptsy says it fell for a Trojan attack
   initiated by "Jack."

Connection to Jailed 'Silk Road' Secret Service Agent

   Cryptsy is not the first exchange to have faced insolvency after
   hackers stole its bitcoins (see Bitcoin Exchange Hacked With
   Word Macro). But why didn't the exchange come forward sooner?
   Officials at Cryptsy couldn't be immediately reached for comment.
   But in the blog post, Cryptsy says it initially tried to cover
   the missing funds using its exchange profits and appears to
   suggest that everyone would have been worse off, had it gone to
   authorities, because its U.S. Secret Service contact was none
   other than Special Agent Shaun Bridges. "I think we all know
   what happened with him," the Cryptsy blog post notes.

   In August, Bridges pleaded guilty to both money laundering and
   obstruction of justice. He was accused of abusing his position
   while a member of the Secret Service's Electronic Crimes Task
   Force that was investigating the notorious darknet narcotics
   marketplace called Silk Road (see Former Secret Service Agent
   Pleads Guilty to $800K Bitcoin Theft).

   Cryptsy, which is a member of the Financial Crimes Enforcement
   Network, also says it attempted to contact the FBI Miami field
   office recently, but was redirected to the Internet Crime Complaint
   Center.  IC3, as it's also known, is run by the FBI, the National
   White Collar Crime Center and the U.S. Bureau of Justice Assistance;
   it deals with Internet crime complaints (see Hackers Claim FBI
   Information-Sharing Portal Breached). The exchange says it has
   yet to hear back from IC3.

Will Missing Bitcoins Come Home?

   Cryptocurrency news site CoinDesk reports that declining trading
   volumes have undercut the exchange's profits and that the exchange
   has halted trading twice in the past two weeks, blaming one of
   those outages on a phishing attack that employed users' email
   addresses and phone numbers.

   But a class-action lawsuit filed Jan. 13 against Project Investors
   - doing business as Cryptsy - and Paul Vernon, who it says is
   the founder, operator, and CEO of Cryptsy, alleges that since
   November 2015, "certain Cryptsy users started having difficulties
   and inabilities withdrawing any and all forms of currency from
   their accounts." The plaintiff, Virginia-based Jinyao Liu, "seeks
   damages based upon the unlawful conduct of defendants in denying
   account holders the ability to obtain funds in their accounts
   and in misappropriating funds held in the Cryptsy accounts,"
   according to the lawsuit.

     Thank you everyone for the patience while we get these issues
     resolved. Team is working hard and we will try to do more
     frequent updates.
      BigVern (@cryptsy) December 10, 2015

   In its Jan. 15 blog post, Cryptsy says it now faces a 10,000
   bitcoin ($3.8 million) shortfall and identifies three available
   business options: It shutters the website and files for bankruptcy;
   someone purchases the exchange and makes good on the requested
   withdrawals; or the attacker returns the stolen bitcoins - no
   questions asked.

   While that might sound far-fetched, Cryptsy says that after the
   July 29, 2014, theft, based on the bitcoin wallet address tied
   to the theft, "those bitcoins have not moved once since this
   happened" which "gives rise to the possibility they can be
   recovered."

   To help, Cryptsy has offered a reward of 1,000 bitcoins ($380,000)
   for "information which leads to the recovery of the stolen coins."

Bye-Bye, Litecoins

   Cryptsy doesn't reference the fate of the missing litecoins. But
   they appear to have been cashed out: On July 2, 2014, someone
   dumped exactly 300,000 litecoins - quite a coincidence - onto
   an exchange all at once, which was such a large volume of coins
   that it temporarily drove down the price of each individual
   litecoin from $8.50 to just $2.

   As noted on a related Reddit conversation: "The volume was so
   high that he basically chewed through the entire buy side of the
   order book, all the way down to someone who had (probably on a
   lark) put in a buy order at $2," reports Reddit user FreeJack2k2.
   "After clearing out the ask side of the order book, the new sell
   orders only dropped to the low $7 range (the recovery from $2
   was immediate) and eventually got bought back to where we are
   now, at around $8. Whoever had that $2 buy order in the books
   made out like a bandit."




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Jan 19 10:19:33 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:19:33 -0800
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RL=sUNgvAndD=MwkqsWpJhmrHBCsa8FxCXBC+wYhCevA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <569D1E48.1040709@riseup.net>
 <CAJVRA1RL=sUNgvAndD=MwkqsWpJhmrHBCsa8FxCXBC+wYhCevA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569E7E35.4090006@riseup.net>


Ohhh Ahhh!

Last request... Play this on the coaster's PA system as I go twirly
twirly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGPhUr-T6UM

If the first time 'round doesn't work (I'm a tough nut...) try the
extended mix...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3uZNpH5dk

-- 
RR

"You might want to ask an expert about that - I just fiddled around
with mine until it worked..."



coderman wrote:
> On 1/18/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>> ...
>> Awww... I really wanted the chance to wrestle with the suicide bear.
>
> perhaps solace on a thrill ride of elegance and euphoria?
>
> http://julijonasurbonas.lt/euthanasia-coaster/
>
>
>
> don't tell me they're not going to build that either, Travis!  :o



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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 07:23:01 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:23:01 -0500
Subject: freedom is a gentle SeppuKuma
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RL=sUNgvAndD=MwkqsWpJhmrHBCsa8FxCXBC+wYhCevA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1RefL__rF7ok686Uj7Q5sAC1jANDHxHPnGkWRstzpUbew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zfAVNDmUGwWh5xcdgUSjKyLVc3yZV15X2RJ=722e-ur=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <569D1E48.1040709@riseup.net>
 <CAJVRA1RL=sUNgvAndD=MwkqsWpJhmrHBCsa8FxCXBC+wYhCevA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zc6uocPVn7QmXpiYQrJFVjp1X1qSen0J4v-fhaS325OKg@mail.gmail.com>

We just need an enigmatic billionaire with an island.

Bring the whole family.

-Travis

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:41 PM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/18/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > ...
> > Awww... I really wanted the chance to wrestle with the suicide bear.
>
>
> perhaps solace on a thrill ride of elegance and euphoria?
>
> http://julijonasurbonas.lt/euthanasia-coaster/
>
>
>
> don't tell me they're not going to build that either, Travis!  :o
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 09:28:34 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 12:28:34 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course
 Spring 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://hacking4defense.stanford.edu/dodic-problems.html
"National Security Agency (NSA)
To be provided"

This incubator for contracted solutions to whatever has provided an world
rw google doc for helping Stanford students organize into participatory
groups.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oXvCSrFzr2PoIDvOmQPaloJN_JxXFpwXNFluYATTaFw/edit?usp=sharing

*Don't do anything disruptive here.

+1 to the Palantir employees who are already in it to win it.

Perhaps the rest of the project will be conducted on world r/w google drive?

-Travis

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Yosem Companys <companys at stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:55 PM
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
2016)
To: Liberation Technologies <liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu>
Cc: Kimberly Diane Chang <kdchang at stanford.edu>


From: Kimberly Diane Chang <kdchang at stanford.edu>

*MS&E 297 - Hacking for Defense *
Solving National Security Issues with the Lean Launchpad

Interested in Entrepreneurship? Innovating at speed? Helping to make the
world a better place? Working closely with members of the military and
government to solve real, important problems?

Then consider applying for MS&E 297 - Hacking for Defense.  A new class in
Spring 2016 with a teaching team led by *Steve Blank *and including *Tom
Byers *(Professor MS&E), *Joe Felter* (CISAC Senior Research Scholar),
and *Pete
Newell* (Managing Partner BMNT Partners).  In the class, students will
apply the Lean Launchpad methodology to problems proposed or approved by
Department of Defense/Intelligence Community sponsors.

Some of the problems already approved include:


Humanitarian Assistance / Disaster Relief Mobile and Web based App
(National Defense University)
Distributed, Disposable, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance
(Commander US Navy 7th Fleet)
Virtual Advice and Assistance Toolkit for IEDs (Joint Improvised Threat
Defense Agency)
Wearable Sensors and Apps for Divers (Naval Special Warfare Group 3)


Interested in solving a problem not listed here but potentially related to
the government or military? Contact the teaching team.

To learn more, visit our website: hacking4defense.stanford.edu

To receive updates about upcoming info sessions and brown bag lunches. Join
our Facebook group <https://www.facebook.com/groups/1556101194680136/> or
sign up on our email list
<https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1ZHM-ahQGIIYRCxyS2aP0XgIHwG-NF7oDJuF3LiESQxk/viewform?usp=send_form>.



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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 19 12:54:51 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:54:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and
 PrivaTegrity without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <794489901.1837891.1453195198870.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TkTyc_s0q5CDaEnHUTJ8jCijdiGuaHn1GhBV0wK9fLiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <794489901.1837891.1453195198870.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1818336056.8165806.1453236891875.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 19 22:29:43 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 01:29:43 -0500
Subject: FOIPA Glomar
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 11:26 PM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> a richer annotation of refusals would be useful.

Let FOIA do the work for you...
Annual count of all queries replied with "can neither confirm or deny / etc".
Initial query date, query ID number, and query subject for all such replies.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan 20 07:57:10 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 07:57:10 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [whispersystems] Addressing Frustration in the Signal
 Community
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Qb6c3vDRfAUj2BhmzjpM-wX1L6m7DAK6f-U_W0Wy8TpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOkMP8T0Cr7V2tzdRzDB92Lmk91sy9YgVb5_SHV7y_LRf-4KZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Qb6c3vDRfAUj2BhmzjpM-wX1L6m7DAK6f-U_W0Wy8TpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569FAE56.7020903@riseup.net>

[selector: 'strict'] > [outcome: 'frustration']

> ...run a tight ship, keeping strict
> control of the direction of the project, and fighting to maintain
> that. It's this strict process that...
GIGO.

-- 
RR

coderman wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sam Lanning <sam at samlanning.com>
> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:16:48 +0000
> Subject: [whispersystems] Addressing Frustration in the Signal Community
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have noticed that there has been some amount of frustration present
> on this mailing list as of late, and I'd just like to address it as a
> an observer and member of the Signal Community.
>
> The popularity of Signal, and in particular the number of people who
> want to help get involved in the project, contribute, help influence
> the future of it etc... has been growing very impressively. We have
> just under 1000 people on this mailing list (967 at time of writing),
> multiple PRs and issues are being opened in the repos by newcomers
> each day, and we have prominent people in the security community
> (Edward Snowden, Various Tor People, George Torwell [1] etc...)
> constantly telling everyone to use Signal.
>
> It's clear why this is happening, Signal is the only project to have
> emerged that really has the potential to put a dent in mass
> surveillance since Tor, and I use the word "only" on purpose here; Yes
> there are a million different privacy apps / projects that have
> emerged in the last 4 years or so, and existing tools have been
> improved (we have the likes of Tox, Pond, Ricochet etc... And OTR and
> PGP are still going strong), but Signal has always put a very strong
> focus on Usability and User Adoption, and it's these things that have
> lead it to becoming as widely adopted as it is, and it's these things
> we need to continue to focus on more than anything until it becomes as
> popular as, for example, Whatsapp. This is why it has the potential to
> put a dent in MASS surveillance.
>
> But this is obvious to most of you, in fact it is probably these
> reasons that have got you so excited about the project, and why we
> have so many people getting involved in the development of Signal, and
> contributing in any which way they can.
>
> That being said, I feel that the community doesn't realise just how
> big it's growing, and how that contrasts with the size of the OWS team
> itself. I have so much respect for them, they are each being pulled in
> a thousand different directions: development, managing + reviewing
> contributions on github, responding to issues, responding to support
> tickets, addressing each of the feature requests that come in (and
> deciding which ones they can take on etc...), handling PR / marketing
> / social media, corresponding with large projects that want to get
> involved and increase growth that drastically change the requirements
> for the infrastructure, managing and growing the infrastructure
> itself, managing finances and donations, general admin stuff, and of
> course... this mailing list.
>
> Go have a look at their website, to see how big their team is, and how
> many people are working on development (and also understand that
> Frederic Jacobs has recently moved on and the website is yet to be
> updated)... Then look again at this list of things that they need to
> handle among themselves.
>
> Also consider how amazingly Moxie has run a tight ship, keeping strict
> control of the direction of the project, and fighting to maintain
> that. It's this strict process that has lead Signal to where it is
> today. We can't let the project grow beyond this control, this strict
> direction that is vital to the steady, consistent, continual growth
> and success of the project, it can't be diluted... and yet growth is
> the single most important thing we're currently fighting for.
>
> This team is insane.
>
> So I ask you, please don't get frustrated, I know it can be difficult,
> and it can feel like you're shouting into the void, but we still need
> you, the community still needs everyone who's currently involved to
> stay as involved as they can and support one another. The
> whispersystems team reads each and every one of the emails that come
> through this mailing list, as insane as that may sound given the rest
> of their work load... they just don't have time to respond to
> everything, and they leave it up to us to do much of that.
>
> We need to work together, as a community, to help the OWS team grow
> this project into something even more fantastic then it is currently,
> rather than just increasing their workload, and taking their focus
> away from important development work and decision making. We each need
> to take a step back, and make calculated contributions, and help to
> make their life easier any way we can.
>
> So where, as a community, can we go from here...
>
> Well, the single most effective thing you could do, if you really want
> to make a difference, and are able to work in San Francisco, consider
> applying to work full time at OWS [2]. They need designers and
> developers alike.
>
> If like me, you're not in San Francisco, or even the USA, then you can
> continue to contribute online. Keep the morale up and continue doing
> what you're doing. Direct newcomers in the right directions (mailing
> list, issues, support, docs, the unofficial server support google
> group, etc...), and spread the word and try and get as many people to
> adopt Signal as possible.
>
> As a community, we can probably do with some better coordination as to
> what each of us are doing, assigning ourselves development tasks,
> doing code review, handling responding to people, discussing design /
> feature requests, working out as a community which features / work we
> feel are most critical etc... Feature requests, however well
> intentioned, do fill up this mailing list quite a bit, but there
> doesn't really seem like there is a proper (public) home for them at
> the moment, issues should be focussed on bugs / minor feature requests
> only, and sending an email to this list sends it to almost 1000
> people... not ideal.
>
> Perhaps there is the scope for some online space to handle / discuss
> feature requests / work in progress in an open manner? and perhaps
> allow the OWS team to be a little more transparent with the things
> they are currently working on etc... We could then also incorporate
> projects like the new windows phone initiative, and coordinate much
> more effectively? Anyway that's just food for thought, and probably
> best discussed another time.
>
> In the meantime, I'm probably going to write up some intro page for
> newcomers of the Signal community, to outline the landscape, and help
> direct their efforts. I'll post in here when that's done.
>
> Anyway, thanks for reading through this monster of an email! It was
> mostly a brain dump on my part. =)
>
> Oh! And make sure you watch the youtube video I linked below.
>
> Cheers,
> Sam
>
> ---------
> Links:
>
> [1]: https://youtu.be/c4EEa0HAqzQ?t=2m31s
> ^ watch this, really!
>
> [2]: https://whispersystems.org/workworkwork/
>



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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 00:39:15 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 08:39:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] A possible alternative to TOR and
 PrivaTegrity without backdoors
In-Reply-To: <794489901.1837891.1453195198870.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TkTyc_s0q5CDaEnHUTJ8jCijdiGuaHn1GhBV0wK9fLiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <794489901.1837891.1453195198870.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1515067800.8040738.1453279155682.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



 From: coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 

On 1/14/16, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ... The main criticism I had
>> of this was the fact that the system was said to have a minimum bid of 1
>> BTC, which at the time was somewhere around $1000.  This, contrasting with
>> my Assassination Politics essay of 1995-96 where I anticipated allowing bits
>> of 10 cents.
>> Assassination Market did not explain a lot of what I had considered
>> necessary for a functioning such system. How can a potential donor trust the
>> system?  How can a potential 'predictor' trust the system?  How to collect?I
>> never tried to research into this, because I judged that to do so would be a
>> little too 'hot' for me to do.

>i am curious how you arrived at a determination of what was "too hot" :)>how do you pick where to draw that line?>*he says with a toe on something very hot...*
It was more of an educated guess.  I knew that I hadn't been promoting AP, yetsomebody was seemingly trying to bring it into reality, or saying they were.  Themost likely scenario, given that this person had contacted me, is that he (they) weresimply trying to discredit me.  To avoid that happening, and to 'kill two birds withone stone', I threw that hot potato to Andy Greenberg.  (I was not at all happy with Greenberg, who greatly misrepresented 'facts' about me in his book).   I figuredthat Greenberg wouldn't do anything with this contact, which would allow me to usehis negligence to discredit him.  Very surprisingly, to me, Greenberg actually wrotean article and published in Forbes!  Literally within hours, many dozen other articles appeared in other media, and in the end it probably was hundreds of articlesover the next year or so.

>>  Did any donations actually appear on the
>> system after its initial announcement?  Did any new names/targets appear?
>there were a few targets added, "bid" transactions successful,
>yet my attempt to add my own life to list was for naught. :/
>maybe i didn't pay enough... ?
 > https://blockchainbdgpzk.onion/address/1P6yannm6Rx9kkMH5LxmAsi1GdZ4JZG73T
I expected to, within a few weeks or months, read many articles publishing details.  But no,all the rest were seemingly just rehashes of Greenberg's.   So, I learned very little.  ButI _DID_ learn that that system wouldn't be successful:  At the very least, it would have hadto convince the public that they could trust the system to operate reliably, and that neveroccurred.The only public criticism I voiced was the fact that the system didn't accept individual donationslower than 1 BTC.  Most people would be willing to throw a penny, nickel, dime, quarter, ordollar into a wishing well.  But nearly $1000?  Highly unlikely.  It was one choice that virtually guaranteed failure, even if everything else was done right. I am now, however, paying attention to Auger and Ethereum, which if they meet their impliedpromises, will actually do the job.
        Jim Bell


   

  
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From me at benmezger.com  Wed Jan 20 03:13:40 2016
From: me at benmezger.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:13:40 -0200
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] GCHQ's plan to backdoor encrypted phone calls
In-Reply-To: <E1aLj3h-0006eU-CC@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1aLj3h-0006eU-CC@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <569F6BE4.3050401@benmezger.com>

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[Cryptography] GCHQ's plan to backdoor encrypted phone calls
Date: 	Tue, 19 Jan 2016 19:03:25 -0800
From: 	Henry Baker <hbaker1 at pipeline.com>
To: 	cryptography at metzdowd.com



FYI -- The whole article is too long to reproduce here; follow the link to read the whole article.

https://www.benthamsgaze.org/2016/01/19/insecure-by-design-protocols-for-encrypted-phone-calls/

Insecure by design: protocols for encrypted phone calls

    The MIKEY-SAKKE protocol is being promoted by the UK government as a better way to secure phone calls. The reality is that MIKEY-SAKKE is designed to offer minimal security while allowing undetectable mass surveillance, through the introduction a backdoor based around mandatory key-escrow. This weakness has implications which go further than just the security of phone calls.

The current state of security for phone calls leaves a lot to be desired. Land-line calls are almost entirely unencrypted, and cellphone calls are also unencrypted except for the radio link between the handset and the phone network. While the latest cryptography standards for cellphones (3G and 4G) are reasonably strong it is possible to force a phone to fall back to older standards with easy-to-break cryptography, if any. The vast majority of phones will not reveal to their user whether such an attack is under way.

The only reason that eavesdropping on land-line calls is not commonplace is that getting access to the closed phone networks is not as easy compared to the more open Internet, and cellphone cryptography designers relied on the equipment necessary to intercept the radio link being only affordable by well-funded government intelligence agencies, and not by criminals or for corporate espionage. That might have been true in the past but it certainly no longer the case with the necessary equipment now available for $1,500. Governments, companies and individuals are increasingly looking for better security.

A second driver for better phone call encryption is the convergence of Internet and phone networks. The LTE (Long-Term Evolution) 4G cellphone standard carries voice calls over IP packets, and desktop phones in companies are increasingly carrying voice over IP (VoIP) too. Because voice calls may travel over the Internet, whatever security was offered by the closed phone networks is gone and so other security mechanisms are needed.

Like Internet data encryption, voice encryption can broadly be categorised as either link encryption, where each intermediary may encrypt data before passing it onto the next, or end-to-end encryption, where communications are encrypted such that only the legitimate end-points can have access to the unencrypted communication. End-to-end encryption is preferable for security because it avoids intermediaries being able to eavesdrop on communications and gives the end-points assurance that communications will indeed be encrypted all the way to their other communication partner.

Current cellphone encryption standards are link encryption: the phone encrypts calls between it and the phone network using cryptographic keys stored on the Subscriber Identity Module (SIM). Within the phone network, encryption may also be present but the network provider still has access to unencrypted data, so even ignoring the vulnerability to fall-back attacks on the radio link, the network providers and their suppliers are weak points that are tempting for attackers to compromise. Recent examples of such attacks include the compromise of the phone networks of Vodafone in Greece (2004) and Belgacom in Belgium (2012), and the SIM card supplier Gemalto in France (2010). The identity of the Vodafone Greece hacker remains unknown (though the NSA is suspected) but the attacks against Belgacom and Gemalto were carried out by the UK signals intelligence agency -- GCHQ -- and only publicly revealed from the Snowden leaks, so it is quite possible there are others attacks which remain h
idden.

Email is typically only secured by link encryption, if at all, with HTTPS encrypting access to most webmail and Transport Layer Security (TLS) sometimes encrypting other communication protocols that carry email (SMTP, IMAP and POP). Again, the fact that intermediaries have access to plaintext creates a vulnerability, as demonstrated by the 2009 hack of Google's Gmail likely originating from China. End-to-end email encryption is possible using the OpenPGP or S/MIME protocols but their use is not common, primarily due to their poor usability, which in turn is at least partially a result of having to stay compatible with older insecure email standards.

In contrast, instant messaging applications had more opportunity to start with a clean-slate and so this is where much innovation in terms of end-to-end security has taken place. Secure voice communication however has had less attention than instant messaging so in the remainder of the article we shall examine what should be expected of a secure voice communication system, and in particular see how one of the latest and up-coming protocols, MIKEY-SAKKE, which comes with UK government backing, meets these criteria.

MIKEY-SAKKE and Secure Chorus

MIKEY-SAKKE is the security protocol behind the Secure Chorus voice (and also video) encryption standard, commissioned and designed by GCHQ through their information security arm, CESG. GCHQ have announced that they will only certify voice encryption products through their Commercial Product Assurance (CPA) security evaluation scheme if the product implements MIKEY-SAKKE and Secure Chorus. As a result, MIKEY-SAKKE has a monopoly over the vast majority of classified UK government voice communication and so companies developing secure voice communication systems must implement it in order to gain access to this market. GCHQ can also set requirements of what products are used in the public sector and as well as for companies operating critical national infrastructure.

.............

Conclusions and future work

The design of MIKEY-SAKKE is motivated by the desire to allow undetectable and unauditable mass surveillance, which may be a requirement in exceptional scenarios such as within government departments processing classified information. However, in the vast majority of cases the properties that MIKEY-SAKKE offers are actively harmful for security. It creates a vulnerable single point of failure, which would require huge effort, skill and cost to secure -- requiring resource beyond the capability of most companies. Better options for voice encryption exist today, though they are not perfect either. In particular, more work is needed on providing scalable and usable protection against man-in-the-middle attacks, and protection of metadata for contact discovery and calls. More broadly, designers of protocols and systems need to appreciate the ethical consequences of their actions in terms of the political and power structures which naturally follow from their use. MIKEY-SAKKE is the lat
est example to raise questions over the policy of many governments, including the UK, to put intelligence agencies in charge of protecting companies and individuals from spying, given the conflict of interest it creates.

Update 2016-01-19: Fix broken links to GCHQ website, note that master key must be permanently available though not necessarily directly connected to the Internet, and mention suspicions that the NSA were involved in the Vodafone Greece compromise.

The photograph above this article is of a AT&T TSD-3600E Telephone Security Device based around the Clipper key-escrow chip (© Matt Blaze).

An edited version of this article will appear in the March 2016 special edition of IEEE Computer Magazine: Communications and Privacy under Surveillance.

CC BY-ND 4.0

Insecure by design: protocols for encrypted phone calls by Steven J. Murdoch is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Published by
Steven J. Murdoch

Dr Steven J. Murdoch is a Royal Society University Research Fellow in the Information Security Research Group of University College London, working on developing metrics for security and privacy. His research interests include authentication/passwords, banking security, anonymous communications, censorship resistance and covert channels. He has worked with the OpenNet Initiative, investigating Internet censorship, and for the Tor Project, on improving the security and usability of the Tor anonymity system. His current research on developing methods to understand complex system security is supported by the Royal Society. He is also working on analysing the security of banking systems, especially Chip & PIN/EMV, and is Innovation Security Architect of Cronto, an online authentication technology provider and part of the VASCO group.

_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptography at metzdowd.com
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography



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From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 03:04:56 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:04:56 +0100
Subject: effective and fully decentralized means we're all Fort Knox [was:
 Cryptsy theft->bankruptcy]
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TxOWtEeaMT4A9qq10ObNg+RooBf9j=U6u2Omcaq9dvuA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/19/16, dan at geer.org <dan at geer.org> wrote:
> ...
>    Bitcoin Heist Steals Millions from Exchange


full decentralization a double edged sword, for sure.

if we're all sovreign bankers and multi-national producers,
 perhaps Snowden threat model not so outlandish?

first disable passive Eve,
 then deny Mallory her middle,
  finally defend the edges from Black Burglary...


sounds trivial!  ;)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 03:09:39 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:09:39 +0100
Subject: FOIPA Glomar
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TTcx5LKx_Gs7bofd5CgNjk+3R+mTNF5ObaZYyJr=bLTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/20/16, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> Let FOIA do the work for you...
> Annual count of all queries replied with "can neither confirm or deny /
> etc".


aha! were it only this simple.

the dispositions noted in the response,
 the disposition noted in MuckRock,
  the disposition noted in their electronic filing system (if present),
   and the disposition actually contained in the reply document,
may all be different!

this is actually at times a subtle fuck-off without allowing time for appeal.

an effective solution with robust annotations would require a
sustained, multi-year effort with a handful of experienced
invidivuals...  you could learn, and participate? :)


more soon...




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 03:22:41 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:22:41 +0100
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/19/16, Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com> wrote:
> ... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oXvCSrFzr2PoIDvOmQPaloJN_JxXFpwXNFluYATTaFw/edit?usp=sharing
>
> +1 to the Palantir employees who are already in it to win it.
>
> Perhaps the rest of the project will be conducted on world r/w google
> drive?


i can't tell anymore,
 what are legit infosec research efforts,
  and what are subterfuge facades of same...




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 06:03:10 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:03:10 +0100
Subject: Fwd: [whispersystems] Addressing Frustration in the Signal Community
In-Reply-To: <CAOkMP8T0Cr7V2tzdRzDB92Lmk91sy9YgVb5_SHV7y_LRf-4KZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOkMP8T0Cr7V2tzdRzDB92Lmk91sy9YgVb5_SHV7y_LRf-4KZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Qb6c3vDRfAUj2BhmzjpM-wX1L6m7DAK6f-U_W0Wy8TpA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sam Lanning <sam at samlanning.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 09:16:48 +0000
Subject: [whispersystems] Addressing Frustration in the Signal Community

Hi All,

I have noticed that there has been some amount of frustration present
on this mailing list as of late, and I'd just like to address it as a
an observer and member of the Signal Community.

The popularity of Signal, and in particular the number of people who
want to help get involved in the project, contribute, help influence
the future of it etc... has been growing very impressively. We have
just under 1000 people on this mailing list (967 at time of writing),
multiple PRs and issues are being opened in the repos by newcomers
each day, and we have prominent people in the security community
(Edward Snowden, Various Tor People, George Torwell [1] etc...)
constantly telling everyone to use Signal.

It's clear why this is happening, Signal is the only project to have
emerged that really has the potential to put a dent in mass
surveillance since Tor, and I use the word "only" on purpose here; Yes
there are a million different privacy apps / projects that have
emerged in the last 4 years or so, and existing tools have been
improved (we have the likes of Tox, Pond, Ricochet etc... And OTR and
PGP are still going strong), but Signal has always put a very strong
focus on Usability and User Adoption, and it's these things that have
lead it to becoming as widely adopted as it is, and it's these things
we need to continue to focus on more than anything until it becomes as
popular as, for example, Whatsapp. This is why it has the potential to
put a dent in MASS surveillance.

But this is obvious to most of you, in fact it is probably these
reasons that have got you so excited about the project, and why we
have so many people getting involved in the development of Signal, and
contributing in any which way they can.

That being said, I feel that the community doesn't realise just how
big it's growing, and how that contrasts with the size of the OWS team
itself. I have so much respect for them, they are each being pulled in
a thousand different directions: development, managing + reviewing
contributions on github, responding to issues, responding to support
tickets, addressing each of the feature requests that come in (and
deciding which ones they can take on etc...), handling PR / marketing
/ social media, corresponding with large projects that want to get
involved and increase growth that drastically change the requirements
for the infrastructure, managing and growing the infrastructure
itself, managing finances and donations, general admin stuff, and of
course... this mailing list.

Go have a look at their website, to see how big their team is, and how
many people are working on development (and also understand that
Frederic Jacobs has recently moved on and the website is yet to be
updated)... Then look again at this list of things that they need to
handle among themselves.

Also consider how amazingly Moxie has run a tight ship, keeping strict
control of the direction of the project, and fighting to maintain
that. It's this strict process that has lead Signal to where it is
today. We can't let the project grow beyond this control, this strict
direction that is vital to the steady, consistent, continual growth
and success of the project, it can't be diluted... and yet growth is
the single most important thing we're currently fighting for.

This team is insane.

So I ask you, please don't get frustrated, I know it can be difficult,
and it can feel like you're shouting into the void, but we still need
you, the community still needs everyone who's currently involved to
stay as involved as they can and support one another. The
whispersystems team reads each and every one of the emails that come
through this mailing list, as insane as that may sound given the rest
of their work load... they just don't have time to respond to
everything, and they leave it up to us to do much of that.

We need to work together, as a community, to help the OWS team grow
this project into something even more fantastic then it is currently,
rather than just increasing their workload, and taking their focus
away from important development work and decision making. We each need
to take a step back, and make calculated contributions, and help to
make their life easier any way we can.

So where, as a community, can we go from here...

Well, the single most effective thing you could do, if you really want
to make a difference, and are able to work in San Francisco, consider
applying to work full time at OWS [2]. They need designers and
developers alike.

If like me, you're not in San Francisco, or even the USA, then you can
continue to contribute online. Keep the morale up and continue doing
what you're doing. Direct newcomers in the right directions (mailing
list, issues, support, docs, the unofficial server support google
group, etc...), and spread the word and try and get as many people to
adopt Signal as possible.

As a community, we can probably do with some better coordination as to
what each of us are doing, assigning ourselves development tasks,
doing code review, handling responding to people, discussing design /
feature requests, working out as a community which features / work we
feel are most critical etc... Feature requests, however well
intentioned, do fill up this mailing list quite a bit, but there
doesn't really seem like there is a proper (public) home for them at
the moment, issues should be focussed on bugs / minor feature requests
only, and sending an email to this list sends it to almost 1000
people... not ideal.

Perhaps there is the scope for some online space to handle / discuss
feature requests / work in progress in an open manner? and perhaps
allow the OWS team to be a little more transparent with the things
they are currently working on etc... We could then also incorporate
projects like the new windows phone initiative, and coordinate much
more effectively? Anyway that's just food for thought, and probably
best discussed another time.

In the meantime, I'm probably going to write up some intro page for
newcomers of the Signal community, to outline the landscape, and help
direct their efforts. I'll post in here when that's done.

Anyway, thanks for reading through this monster of an email! It was
mostly a brain dump on my part. =)

Oh! And make sure you watch the youtube video I linked below.

Cheers,
Sam

---------
Links:

[1]: https://youtu.be/c4EEa0HAqzQ?t=2m31s
^ watch this, really!

[2]: https://whispersystems.org/workworkwork/




From blibbet at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 15:03:57 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:03:57 -0800
Subject: libreboot not supporting post-2008 Intel hardware?
In-Reply-To: <20160112154709.GC2572@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160111125511.GC2503@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <5693D5C6.8090905@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SGb7KM1pUc1zG69HjLJ9JEjcDeNenA-LeqMAr=RmqPtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160112154709.GC2572@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <56A0125D.7010608@gmail.com>


On 01/12/2016 07:47 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 09:22:34AM -0800, coderman wrote:
>>> One interesting thing about AMD64 is -- *I think* -- that some boards
>>> have blob-free options in the coreboot tree, not relying on AGESA
>>> binaries.
>>
>> if you find any, let me know!  i don't believe they exist.
>> also, BIOS security on AMD may be even worse than Intel.
>> use an external SPI flash programmer, not a built in one, in that case.
>
> Does libreboot support modern AMD?
>
> Didn't see it in supported hardware and in the faq they mention only
> intel.

The blob-free AMD systems are the ones supported prior to this 2014 date
mentioned in the Phoronix and Libreboot FAQ entries below. Current AMD
appears to be binary-only AGESA. AFAICT, if you want a blob-free AGESA,
l look for AMD models targeted in the source drops before that 2014
cutoff. It would be really useful to know if any of those devices are in
current product, or are only on EBay.

I think it'll be easier to find new Libreboot candidates from the new
ARM-based Chromebooks, instead of focusing on Intel/AMD.

AMD (and Intel) aside, and are there any other x86/x64-compatible
vendors out there, like Transmeta?

"In 2011, AMD started cooperating with the coreboot project, releasing
this as source code under a free license. In 2014, they stopped
releasing source code and started releasing AGESA as binary blobs
instead. This makes AGESA now equivalent to Intel FSP."

"More worrying about the prospects for Coreboot on future hardware is
that since the end of 2014, AMD stopped providing open-source AGESA
code. AGESA releases by AMD are now binary-only, with this being the
bootstrap protocol needed to initialize AMD processor cores, memory, and
HyperTransport. Binary AGESA is similar to Intel not opening up their
firmware support packages. "

http://firmwaresecurity.com/2015/08/10/amd-clarifies-firmware-strategy/
http://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2014-November/078892.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/libreboot/comments/40q4xd/why_is_the_latest_amd_hardware_unsupported_in/
https://libreboot.org/faq/#amd




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 10:47:03 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:47:03 -0300
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course
 Spring 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <569fd66a.cd15370a.edb2d.ffff93dd@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:22:41 +0100
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/19/16, Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oXvCSrFzr2PoIDvOmQPaloJN_JxXFpwXNFluYATTaFw/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > +1 to the Palantir employees who are already in it to win it.
> >
> > Perhaps the rest of the project will be conducted on world r/w
> > google drive?
> 
> 
> i can't tell anymore,
>  what are legit infosec research efforts,


	Not anymore? And when were you able to tell? Maybe at the time
	when the US wasn't in a state of perpetual war? 


>   and what are subterfuge facades of same...


	you mean like tor?







From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 11:02:12 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:02:12 -0300
Subject: FOIPA Glomar
In-Reply-To: <1216129034.8618860.1453315951706.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1216129034.8618860.1453315951706.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <569fd9f6.c5f78c0a.e2e9d.045e@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:52:31 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just checking to see if my comments are getting through.
> Jim Bell
> 

	That one and your previous reply to coderman at least did.

	Then again, some of your messages end up in my spam folder but
	that's a problem on my side caused by the gaagle masters of the
	universe who can't code a trivial white listing mechanism.




> 
>   




From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 14:07:36 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:07:36 -0500
Subject: National Archives API
Message-ID: <CANFTA08+fkZCXcJnjs0X0hO-HKhn5hM9v2tORGDWCcnZxBshVQ@mail.gmail.com>

So apparently there's an API. Not sure if it's just for data mining or
actually accessing information or not.

https://github.com/usnationalarchives/Catalog-API

If anyone figures out how to make it do useful things, and feels like
walking me through it....
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 20 10:52:31 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:52:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FOIPA Glomar
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_zNaOAmg0em4-KA6WvPkPhgYGnE-N0N0_tX=W48YxTDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1216129034.8618860.1453315951706.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Just checking to see if my comments are getting through.              Jim Bell


  
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan 20 21:11:51 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:11:51 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500
> grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> "When a person drives a car on a
>> highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate,"
> 	false
>
>
>

Spoken like a true right wing jackass me-first sovereign citizen.

I'll bet you think you're an anarchist too!

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 20:14:59 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:14:59 -0500
Subject: European Court of Human Rights about Bulk Surveillance aka Big Data
 aka Massive Monitoring
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti292UW2vSY8uXpWoDbt9FscKmb+StMA2vAVAo7KagtfmwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 12:25 AM,  <tor_talk at arcor.de> wrote:
> Hi Tor Talkers,
>
> January 13, 2016
> https://cdt.org/blog/did-the-european-court-of-human-rights-just-outlaw-massive-monitoring-of-communications-in-europe/
> Did the European Court of Human Rights Just Outlaw “Massive Monitoring of Communications” in Europe?
> December 9, 2015
> https://www.justsecurity.org/28216/echr-deals-heavy-blow-lawfulness-bulk-surveillance/
> European Human Rights Court Deals a Heavy Blow to the Lawfulness of Bulk Surveillance

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/0348233/european-human-rights-court-rules-mass-surveillance-illegal




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 20:19:10 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/1321243/senior-homeland-security-official-says-internet-anonymity-should-be-outlawed
A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a
license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a car on a
highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate," Erik Barnett,
an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and Customs
Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the Department of
Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's identifiers are ignored
most of the time by law enforcement. Law enforcement will use the
identifiers, though, to determine the driver's identity if the car is
involved in a legal infraction or otherwise becomes a matter of public
interest. Similarly, should not every individual be required to
display a 'license plate' on the digital super-highway?"




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Jan 20 22:05:35 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 01:05:35 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/21/2016 12:25 AM, juan wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:11:51 -0800 Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> 
> wrote:
> 
>> juan wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500 grarpamp 
>>> <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> "When a person drives a car on a highway, he or she 
>>>> agrees to display a license plate,"
>>> false
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Spoken like a true right wing jackass me-first sovereign 
>> citizen.
>> 
>> I'll bet you think you're an anarchist too!
> 
> 
> Dude. You're the one who quotes doug casey.
> 
> As to anarchist, I don't know. You not only quote doug casey 
> but also think that the state owns the highways and the people
>  on it? Oh my...
> 
> Anyway, the point I made, though granted, not explicitly, is 
> that 'implied consent' is bullshit. The point goes way over 
> your head perhaps?

As an anarchist, I have no problem recognizing the difference
between consent, and making accommodations to coercive demands as
a matter of tactical discretion.

Calling compliance with arbitrary orders from people who carry
guns and radios "consent" is like saying that every person who has
ever been raped "was asking for it."





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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 20:33:37 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 01:33:37 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:


> "When a person drives a car on a
> highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate,"

	false





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 20 21:25:48 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 02:25:48 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:11:51 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500
> > grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> "When a person drives a car on a
> >> highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate,"
> > 	false
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Spoken like a true right wing jackass me-first sovereign citizen.
> 
> I'll bet you think you're an anarchist too!


	Dude. You're the one who quotes doug casey.

	As to anarchist, I don't know. You not only quote doug casey
	but also think that the state owns the highways and the people
	on it? Oh my...

	Anyway, the point I made, though granted, not explicitly, is
	that 'implied consent' is bullshit. The point goes way over
	your head perhaps? 

	






From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 07:47:42 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:47:42 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>

On 01/21/2016 12:25 AM, juan wrote:

> > On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:11:51 -0800 Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> juan wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500 grarpamp
> >>> <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> "When a person drives a car on a highway, he or she
> >>>> agrees to display a license plate,"
> >>>>
> >>> false
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Spoken like a true right wing jackass me-first sovereign
> >> citizen.
> >>
> >> I'll bet you think you're an anarchist too!
>
>
> > Dude. You're the one who quotes doug casey.

It doesn't matter WHO one quotes. The only thing that matters is one's
WORLDVIEW, and I stick to what I said. You're a right winger and don't
even know it.


Steve Kinney wrote:
>
> As an anarchist, I have no problem recognizing the difference
> between consent, and making accommodations to coercive demands as
> a matter of tactical discretion.
>
> Calling compliance with arbitrary orders from people who carry
> guns and radios "consent" is like saying that every person who has
> ever been raped "was asking for it."
>
>
>
>
>

So can we get a consensus that someone operating a 1-2 ton weapon of
environmental and generally Mass Destruction, including but not limited
to taking someone's life, should not only prove to 'the herd' they're
capable, or at least KNOW how to operate said WMD properly (license),
and have responsibility for that WMD, their personal property, evidenced
(registration) for the rest of us ?

-- 

RR

"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May




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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 11:56:16 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:56:16 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> invididualist anarchist

ROTF! Fuck the collective right?

So... tell me. What's the diff between an 'individualist anarchist' and
a Libertard when one of it's leading Merican proponents (pretty much the
only nation contributing to this school of 'thought'), ol Ben Tucker,
said "if the individual has the right to govern himself, all external
government is tyranny."

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 13:35:57 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 13:35:57 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com> <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
 <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A14F3D.7080503@riseup.net>

juan wrote:

> 	Now tell me rayzer, you are a 'true' 'anarchist', and the proof
> 	that you are a 'true' 'anarchist' is that you worship the
> 	american DVM ...

Haven't had a DL in 20 years and my ID is 15 years expired.

On the other hand, I don't drive a smogbox anymore, and when the police
ask for ID, I IDENTIFY myself with my name. That's all I'm legally
required to do.

Keep the ad homs comin' rube.

NEXT!

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:56:16 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> juan wrote:
>>> invididualist anarchist
>> ROTF! Fuck the collective right?
> 	
> 	Exactly.
>
> 	You don't sound like you read much on anarchism in particular or
> 	political philosophy in general.
>
>
>
>> So... tell me. What's the diff between an 'individualist anarchist'
>> and a Libertard 
> 	I don't know what you mean by 'libertard'. Then again, you don't
> 	know either...
>
> 	Do you remember some bullshit comment you made about 'working
> 	class' somethig or other, and that I asked if bakunin and
> 	kropotkin were 'working class' ?
>
> 	I'm still waiting for some meaningful reply from you. Ha ha ha.
> 	I know I'll wait forever.
>
> 	And what about that dumb nazi marx, was he 'working class' too?
>
>
>
>> when one of it's leading Merican proponents (pretty
>> much the only nation contributing to this school of 'thought')
> 	...if you say so...
>
>> , ol
>> Ben Tucker, said "if the individual has the right to govern himself,
>> all external government is tyranny."
>>
> 	tucker's quote is correct, what's your problem with it? And it's
> 	based on liberal rights theory. Hardly an 'american' invention.
>
>
> 	Now tell me rayzer, you are a 'true' 'anarchist', and the proof
> 	that you are a 'true' 'anarchist' is that you worship the
> 	american DVM becuase embodies the will of herd, correct? 
>
> 	At least you got something right. A herd is a collection of
> 	animals. 
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 14:33:02 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:33:02 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a1536e.74618c0a.fcba6.78a1@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com> <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
 <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com> <56A14F3D.7080503@riseup.net>
 <56a1536e.74618c0a.fcba6.78a1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A15C9E.9070607@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> Doesn't your fucking herd have the divine collective right to identify you?

Existence shouldn't be regulated by the society you are part of but your
actions and behaviors might very well be to ensure the survival of the
'herd' if not the species.

Safer you sit alone in a dark room in front of a glowing screen as a
'socialization process' Juan. The "herd" would instinctively trample you.

Here's one of my herd, at rest:
http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/126592562829


-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 14:45:25 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:45:25 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A150CD.6010206@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56A150CD.6010206@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <56A15F85.1090009@riseup.net>

Steve Kinney wrote:
> Can we get a consensus that no one should be allowed to operate a
> motor vehicle without proof of income,
That what happens in states with optional insurance regulation. You're
required to produce proof of ability to compensate someone in case you
crush their legs or some other stupid thing that me-firsters never
consider until it's THEIR legs that get crushed.

>  And that this constraint
> should be imposed by deadly force in the event that someone
> persistently refuses to comply?

ROTF! The option is ME pulling out a gun and putting a bullet in your
head immediately if your car threatens my life.

Your choice dude. Keep extrapolating and not answering my direct
question with a direct answer.

The question IS:

> So can we get a consensus that someone operating a 1-2 ton
> weapon of environmental and generally Mass Destruction,
> including but not limited to taking someone's life, should not
> only prove to 'the herd' they're capable, or at least KNOW how
> to operate said WMD properly (license), and have
> responsibility for that WMD, their personal property, evidenced
> (registration) for the rest of us ?


Evasion was a local 'zine by the OG Dharma Punk, but not an appropriate
way to answer a legitimate question.

> Now we have an "Affordable Care Act"

It can't run you over.


> It's a matter of perspective.  A fear based world view that
> imposes a constant 'need' for protection by ersatz parental
> figures is the consensus reality in Amerika.

The worldview in  Merica, as illustrated by the responses I'm seeing is
'denial of responsibility' and a touch of sociopathy... Given that, "a
constant 'need' for protection" seems prerequisite.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 11:21:03 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 16:21:03 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:47:42 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:


> It doesn't matter WHO one quotes. The only thing that matters is one's
> WORLDVIEW, and I stick to what I said. You're a right winger and don't
> even know it.


	Dude! I am a 'liberal'. The consistent version of 'liberal' is
	nowadays called 'invididualist anarchist'. I don't like
	academic jargon though, but that one should set you straight. 

	I'm wondering, Razer...perhaps you didn't like my comments about
	the All American New Fascist Deal? 

	At any rate, the fact that you call a radical libertarian a
	'right winger' says a lot more about you than me...
	

> 
> 
> Steve Kinney wrote:
> >
> > As an anarchist, I have no problem recognizing the difference
> > between consent, and making accommodations to coercive demands as
> > a matter of tactical discretion.
> >
> > Calling compliance with arbitrary orders from people who carry
> > guns and radios "consent" is like saying that every person who has
> > ever been raped "was asking for it."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> So can we get a consensus that someone operating a 1-2 ton weapon of
> environmental and generally Mass Destruction, including but not
> limited to taking someone's life, should not only prove to 'the herd'


	No, we can't.


	And what if we apply your 'logic' a bit more consistently.

	Should all knives and forks be registered with the Department
	of Amerikan Cutlery, and their owners tracked in realtime? 


	And while we are at it, what's the name for your political
	'philosophy' Razer? 



> they're capable, or at least KNOW how to operate said WMD properly
> (license), and have responsibility for that WMD, their personal
> property, evidenced (registration) for the rest of us ?
> 




From admin at pilobilus.net  Thu Jan 21 13:42:37 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 16:42:37 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56A150CD.6010206@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On 01/21/2016 10:47 AM, Rayzer wrote:

> Steve Kinney wrote:
>> 
>> As an anarchist, I have no problem recognizing the difference
>> between consent, and making accommodations to coercive
>> demands as a matter of tactical discretion.
>> 
>> Calling compliance with arbitrary orders from people who 
>> carry guns and radios "consent" is like saying that every 
>> person who has ever been raped "was asking for it."


> So can we get a consensus that someone operating a 1-2 ton 
> weapon of environmental and generally Mass Destruction, 
> including but not limited to taking someone's life, should not 
> only prove to 'the herd' they're capable, or at least KNOW how 
> to operate said WMD properly (license), and have
> responsibility for that WMD, their personal property, evidenced
> (registration) for the rest of us ?

Can we get a consensus that no one should be allowed to operate a
motor vehicle without proof of income, in the form of regular
payments to a privately owned casino?  And that this constraint
should be imposed by deadly force in the event that someone
persistently refuses to comply?

Now we have an "Affordable Care Act" that serves the sole purpose
of using State power to mandate payments to privately owned
casinos, again backed by deadly force in the event that someone
persistently refuses to play.

It's a matter of perspective.  A fear based world view that
imposes a constant 'need' for protection by ersatz parental
figures is the consensus reality in Amerika.  Should the State
service this need by violence or the threat of violence (same
thing actually) against those whose world view is not
predominantly fear based?  The victims of this grand deception
will of course say 'yes', as will the private backers of State
authority who realize massive profits guaranteed by the State.

"Fear is the great teacher." - Charles Manson

:o/





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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 12:35:52 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:35:52 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
 <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:56:16 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > invididualist anarchist
> 
> ROTF! Fuck the collective right?
	
	Exactly.

	You don't sound like you read much on anarchism in particular or
	political philosophy in general.



> 
> So... tell me. What's the diff between an 'individualist anarchist'
> and a Libertard 

	I don't know what you mean by 'libertard'. Then again, you don't
	know either...

	Do you remember some bullshit comment you made about 'working
	class' somethig or other, and that I asked if bakunin and
	kropotkin were 'working class' ?

	I'm still waiting for some meaningful reply from you. Ha ha ha.
	I know I'll wait forever.

	And what about that dumb nazi marx, was he 'working class' too?



> when one of it's leading Merican proponents (pretty
> much the only nation contributing to this school of 'thought')

	...if you say so...

>, ol
> Ben Tucker, said "if the individual has the right to govern himself,
> all external government is tyranny."
> 

	tucker's quote is correct, what's your problem with it? And it's
	based on liberal rights theory. Hardly an 'american' invention.


	Now tell me rayzer, you are a 'true' 'anarchist', and the proof
	that you are a 'true' 'anarchist' is that you worship the
	american DVM becuase embodies the will of herd, correct? 

	At least you got something right. A herd is a collection of
	animals. 

	

























From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 12:43:46 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:43:46 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
 <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a14345.91d7370a.53f86.6b80@mx.google.com>

> you worship the american DVM becuase embodies the will of herd,
> correct? 

 you worship the american DVM because it embodies the will of the  herd

























From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 21 08:39:49 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:39:49 +0200
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160121163949.GB2440@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:19:10PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/1321243/senior-homeland-security-official-says-internet-anonymity-should-be-outlawed
> A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
> anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a

Isn't the "license plate" already implemented -- it is the IP of the
luser.

What more than the equivalent of IP address they expect?

Running gov. trojanized OS?

Even in this case, botnets will provide relatively cheap "license
plates".

Are they clinically insane or just completely technically illiterate?




From admin at pilobilus.net  Thu Jan 21 15:49:55 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:49:55 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A15F85.1090009@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56A150CD.6010206@pilobilus.net> <56A15F85.1090009@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56A16EA3.3060306@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On 01/21/2016 05:45 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> Steve Kinney wrote:
>> Can we get a consensus that no one should be allowed to
>> operate a motor vehicle without proof of income,

> That what happens in states with optional insurance regulation.
> You're required to produce proof of ability to compensate
> someone in case you crush their legs or some other stupid thing
> that me-firsters never consider until it's THEIR legs that get
> crushed.

You want insurance against loss or injury from motor vehicle
accidents, therefore I will pay for that insurance.  And if I
don't, hired thugs will kidnap or kill me on your behalf.

As long as I choose to obey traffic laws in a manner consistent
with public safety, I can not be held liable for any injury to you
resulting from my operation of a motor vehicle.  Therefore, I must
pay for your insurance.  The logic is inescapable:  You are a thief.

>> And that this constraint should be imposed by deadly force in
>> the event that someone persistently refuses to comply?
> 
> ROTF! The option is ME pulling out a gun and putting a bullet
> in your head immediately if your car threatens my life.

This "extrapolation" suggests that my position can not be disputed
by rational argument.

> Your choice dude. Keep extrapolating and not answering my
> direct question with a direct answer.

Demonstrating that an argument is dependent on a forced,
irrational context refutes the said argument.

> The question IS:
> 
>> So can we get a consensus that someone operating a 1-2 ton 
>> weapon of environmental and generally Mass Destruction, 
>> including but not limited to taking someone's life, should
>> not only prove to 'the herd' they're capable, or at least
>> KNOW how to operate said WMD properly (license), and have 
>> responsibility for that WMD, their personal property,
>> evidenced (registration) for the rest of us ?
> 
> Evasion was a local 'zine by the OG Dharma Punk, but not an
> appropriate way to answer a legitimate question.

Nice try, but I am not obligated to refute an argument while
staying within the bounds of the irrational context from which it
emerges.  Relevance is always grounds for objection.  Calling an
automobile a "weapon of mass destruction" does not do much for
your argument except to show that it emerges from a context of
irrational fear.

>> Now we have an "Affordable Care Act"
> 
> It can't run you over.

It can steal your money, on behalf of the industry that lobbied to
have it put in place.  Exactly like compulsory motor vehicle
insurance.

>> It's a matter of perspective.  A fear based world view that 
>> imposes a constant 'need' for protection by ersatz parental 
>> figures is the consensus reality in Amerika.
> 
> The worldview in  Merica, as illustrated by the responses I'm
> seeing is 'denial of responsibility' and a touch of
> sociopathy... Given that, "a constant 'need' for protection"
> seems prerequisite.

Progress!  We agree that you are arguing within a context where a
constant need for protection by (armed) third party authorities is
assumed.

:o)





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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 13:52:41 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:52:41 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A14F3D.7080503@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
 <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
 <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com>
 <56A14F3D.7080503@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a1536e.74618c0a.fcba6.78a1@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 13:35:57 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> 
> > 	Now tell me rayzer, you are a 'true' 'anarchist', and the
> > proof that you are a 'true' 'anarchist' is that you worship the
> > 	american DVM ...
> 
> Haven't had a DL in 20 years and my ID is 15 years expired.


	Doesn't your fucking herd have the divine collective right to
	identify you? The information is irrelevant bullshit anyway
	assuming it's true. 

	The discussion made it clear that you are an 'anarchist' who
	sides with the american state and one of its arms of total
	surveillance, operating on roads.

	But yes you are also an hypocrite since you both defend
	surveillance while not complying with it yourself. 

	

> 
> On the other hand, I don't drive a smogbox anymore, and when the
> police ask for ID, I IDENTIFY myself with my name. That's all I'm
> legally required to do.
> 
> Keep the ad homs comin' rube.

	
	Dude. You are a stupid joke. You had the cheek to call me a
	'right winger', a claim that you obviously can't substantiate,
	and instead what you did is shown that you are intellectually
	bankrupt.

	You :

	1) fancy yourself a 'true' 'anarchist'

	2) are actually an apologist of the american state when it
	bullies people 'aka' individuals. 


	Fuck you. 



> 
> NEXT!
> 

	Dude, you are a stupid fraud who ignores anything you can
	counter. 







From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 21 19:30:15 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:30:15 -0800
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
Message-ID: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>

"A giant squid sucking the face off of North America" ~Jon Stewart

    The logo was widely lampooned as emblematic of the intelligence
    community's tone-deafness to public sentiment. Incidentally, an
    octopus enveloping the planet also so happens to be the logo of
    SPECTRE, the international criminal syndicate that James Bond is
    always thwarting. So there's that.

    Privacy and security researcher Runa Sandvik wanted to know who
    approved this and why, so she filed a FOIA with the NRO for the
    development materials that went into the logo. A few months later,
    the NRO delivered.


https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/jan/19/octopus-NRO/

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 16:21:23 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:21:23 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A15C9E.9070607@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a05fe7.e42a8c0a.6d2fe.ffffd01f@mx.google.com>
 <56A06897.1050304@riseup.net>
 <56a06c22.458f8c0a.e6df2.ffff9e5a@mx.google.com>
 <56A0752F.7070402@pilobilus.net> <56A0FD9E.1030408@riseup.net>
 <56a12fe1.0af88c0a.ead01.5e9c@mx.google.com>
 <56A137E0.5010000@riseup.net>
 <56a14170.8852370a.d4e6f.6975@mx.google.com>
 <56A14F3D.7080503@riseup.net>
 <56a1536e.74618c0a.fcba6.78a1@mx.google.com>
 <56A15C9E.9070607@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a17645.c437370a.11000.ffff88f7@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:33:02 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > Doesn't your fucking herd have the divine collective right to
> > identify you?
> 
> Existence shouldn't be regulated by the society you are part of but
> your actions and behaviors might very well be to ensure the survival
> of the 'herd' if not the species.
> 
> Safer you sit alone in a dark room in front of a glowing screen as a
> 'socialization process' Juan. The "herd" would instinctively trample
> you.
> 
> Here's one of my herd, at rest:
> http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/126592562829


	I'm not really following. You think the collective can trample
	'selfish' individuals? That's exactly why the US is a police
	state  that aims at becoming a global police state. 

	You think it's not 'ok' for the police to become
	'militarized'? On what grounds? 'Militarization' of the
	police is the will of the collective and is needed for
	the survival of the (american) species.

	Police 'militarization' is of course mostly bullshit, in the
	sense that the police were always the same murdering shitbags.

	The fact that now their true nature is a bit more obvious (to
	some) because they have bigger guns, is, if anything, a good
	thing. 

	


		
J.


> 
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 21 12:37:28 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:37:28 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <20160121163949.GB2440@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160121163949.GB2440@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <7494946.Pr6msoACeL@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 21 stycznia 2016 18:39:49 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> Are they clinically insane or just completely technically illiterate?

Yes.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From skquinn at rushpost.com  Thu Jan 21 21:54:45 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:54:45 -0600
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol>

On Fri, 2016-01-22 at 02:39 -0300, juan wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:30:15 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> >     Privacy and security researcher Runa Sandvik wanted to know who
> >     approved this and why, 
> 
> 
> 	Now, that's really a fundamental piece of information which can
> 	lead to some fundamental changes regarding...something. Or
> 	other.
> 
> 
> 
> > so she filed a FOIA 
> 
> 	isn't that runa sandvik on the tor payroll (like
> 	coderman) ? 
> 
> 	ah, the state-funded professional 'activists' and their 
> 	impressive...'research'.
> - 
> 
> > with the NRO for the
> >     development materials that went into the logo. A few months later,
> >     the NRO delivered.
> 	
> 	...delivered bullshit.

I get that you think this FOIA request was a waste of time. However, I
disagree completely, and I think we do have a right to know who came up
with this rather creepy logo. It is definitely an eye-opener to me that
"A little sinister!!" wasn't enough to discourage the final "OK" on it.
Honestly, this logo should never have made it out into the world; I
think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been
developed and all copies of the existing one shredded, overwritten with
zeros, degaussed, etc as appropriate.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 23:24:08 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 02:24:08 -0500
Subject: US State Of California to Ban Encrypted Screenlocked Phones and
 Devices
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29j6fmXW7HJaKS8GWm_Z+VHUgOgF=OoHte9E5AiFBNmYg@mail.gmail.com>

http://asmdc.org/members/a09/news-room/video-gallery/cooper-introduces-human-trafficking-investigation-legislation
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10949354
(Sacramento) – Assemblymember Jim Cooper (D-Elk Grove), along with the
Sacramento County District Attorney’s office, crime victim’s families,
and bill supporters, announced at a state capitol news conference the
introduction of Assembly Bill 1681. The legislation will help law
enforcement investigate and prosecute suspected criminals and criminal
organizations that are involved in human trafficking and other serious
crimes. In 2014, cell phone manufactures began providing new operating
systems for smartphones and tablets, these new operating systems
employ, by default, “full-disk encryption” (FDE). That can be a
problem for law enforcement investigators. “Human traffickers are
using encrypted cell phones to run and conceal their criminal
activities,” said Assemblymember Cooper. “Full-disk encrypted
operating systems provide criminals an invaluable tool to prey on
women, children, and threaten our freedoms while making the legal
process of judicial court orders useless.” Learn more about AB 1681 in
this Assembly Access video.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 21:34:02 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 02:34:02 -0300
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course
 Spring 2016)
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SmVGk3OiNdcWqKD8WcX7dRKGZX81Sa4s-wmr0+5tkHXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <569fd66a.cd15370a.edb2d.ffff93dd@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1SmVGk3OiNdcWqKD8WcX7dRKGZX81Sa4s-wmr0+5tkHXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a1bf8e.0b50370a.d5bf5.ffffa128@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 05:03:54 +0100
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/20/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ... Maybe at the time
> > 	when the US wasn't in a state of perpetual war?
> 
> maybe juan's the fed.

> ...
> 
> 
> 
> > 	you mean like tor?
> 
> casting suspicion on Tor rather than OPSEC..  Fed :P


	DUDE! Aren't you on the payroll of the pentagon via the tor
	cunts? 

	It's quite clear that you and your stupid FOIA spam are a 'state
	sponsored' propaganda effort. 

	What's the purpose of your FOIA spam? What kind of  retard can
	believe that the government is going to write down 'secret'
	information and then hand it when you fill some stupid form? 

	Only retaards...or people who do the 'freedom of information'
	theater for the masses. 

	Aren't you coderman, on the record, twice, saying how good the
	NSA is? Or was that your sockpuppet account grarpamp? 











From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 21:39:30 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 02:39:30 -0300
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:30:15 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

>     Privacy and security researcher Runa Sandvik wanted to know who
>     approved this and why, 


	Now, that's really a fundamental piece of information which can
	lead to some fundamental changes regarding...something. Or
	other.



> so she filed a FOIA 

	isn't that runa sandvik on the tor payroll (like
	coderman) ? 

	ah, the state-funded professional 'activists' and their 
	impressive...'research'.
- 

> with the NRO for the
>     development materials that went into the logo. A few months later,
>     the NRO delivered.
	
	...delivered bullshit.



> 
> 
> https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/jan/19/octopus-NRO/
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 23:39:15 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 04:39:15 -0300
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
 <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <56a1dce8.4e49370a.bb212.ffffa6b3@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:54:45 -0600
"Shawn K. Quinn" <skquinn at rushpost.com> wrote:


> I think the world would be a better place if an alternative
> logo had been developed 

	That sounds like irony and sarcams, yes? =) 

	Well, I can believe it's sarcasm until you crush my hopes
	saying it's not sarcasm...


> and all copies of the existing one shredded,
> overwritten with zeros, degaussed, etc as appropriate.
> 




From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Jan 21 20:03:54 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 05:03:54 +0100
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <569fd66a.cd15370a.edb2d.ffff93dd@mx.google.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKtE3zdAq-xZOK+2cmbR=qGxonxBg_UzmXXcgpR0WC0pK_XWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <569fd66a.cd15370a.edb2d.ffff93dd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SmVGk3OiNdcWqKD8WcX7dRKGZX81Sa4s-wmr0+5tkHXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/20/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ... Maybe at the time
> 	when the US wasn't in a state of perpetual war?

maybe juan's the fed.
- mining for info (birthdate)
- agent provocateur
- ignorant brovado
...



> 	you mean like tor?

casting suspicion on Tor rather than OPSEC..  Fed :P




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan 22 07:45:49 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 07:45:49 -0800
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
 <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <56A24EAD.2080709@riseup.net>

Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-01-22 at 02:39 -0300, juan wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:30:15 -0800
>> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>>     Privacy and security researcher Runa Sandvik wanted to know who
>>>     approved this and why, 
>>
>> 	Now, that's really a fundamental piece of information which can
>> 	lead to some fundamental changes regarding...something. Or
>> 	other.
>>
>>
>>
>>> so she filed a FOIA 
>> 	isn't that runa sandvik on the tor payroll (like
>> 	coderman) ? 
>>
>> 	ah, the state-funded professional 'activists' and their 
>> 	impressive...'research'.
>> - 
>>
>>> with the NRO for the
>>>     development materials that went into the logo. A few months later,
>>>     the NRO delivered.
>> 	
>> 	...delivered bullshit.
> I get that you think this FOIA request was a waste of time. However, I
> disagree completely, and I think we do have a right to know who came up
> with this rather creepy logo. It is definitely an eye-opener to me that
> "A little sinister!!" wasn't enough to discourage the final "OK" on it.
> Honestly, this logo should never have made it out into the world; I
> think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been
> developed and all copies of the existing one shredded, overwritten with
> zeros, degaussed, etc as appropriate.
>

You forgot to extract your tongue from cheek.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan 22 12:42:42 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 12:42:42 -0800
Subject: NSA Spy-by-Crypto
In-Reply-To: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <56A29442.4030604@riseup.net>

John Young wrote:
> DIRNSA said at Atlantic Council on 21 January that NSA spying
> ("intelligence")
> and information protection (IAD) to be meshed. Separation not suitable
> for
> current requirement.
>
> Outside partners to aid dual tech: spy-by-crypto.
>
>
>

Did you EVER have any doubts?

2016 IAD Top Technology Challenges

    Cyber sensing and analysis, adaptable and scalable

    Automated risk detection �monitoring, collection, fusion, sense-making

    Automated risk mitigation �decision making, orchestration, response
actions

    Future cryptography �algorithms, protocols, practices

    Secure mobility �usable, assured, extending from endpoints to clouds

    Distributed cyber situational awareness (multi-domain, multi-event,
timely, spanning authorities and sources, etc.)

    Predict, measure, and manage the impact of compromises on mission
execution (in design & operation)

    Optimize and automate detection and mitigation across the kill chain

    Internet of Things �how to harden it,  use it, defend it, and
protect against it

    Assured recovery & reconstitution of operational cyber systems

    Improve HW and SW assurance for defense systems (incl. weapons
platforms)

https:// www. nsa. gov/ia/

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From themikebest at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 11:17:13 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:17:13 -0500
Subject: FOIA: The Hunt For the Government's Oldest Computer
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-dnNfvT2ccGbWY_6LpeA89=7ukUWi4N+qhc_GChXqJPA@mail.gmail.com>

What started out as an attempt to answer a (seemingly) simple question -
what is the oldest computer still in use by a government agency - has seen
spiraled into a project that touches on issues of national security, record
keeping, and finally finding out whatever happened to Zeos.
https://www.muckrock.com/project/the-hunt-for-the-governments-oldest-computer-32/
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From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Jan 22 11:53:46 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:53:46 -0500
Subject: NSA Spy-by-Crypto
Message-ID: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

DIRNSA said at Atlantic Council on 21 January that NSA spying ("intelligence")
and information protection (IAD) to be meshed. Separation not suitable for
current requirement.

Outside partners to aid dual tech: spy-by-crypto.





From themikebest at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 12:46:18 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:46:18 -0500
Subject: [cryptome] NSA Spy-by-Crypto
In-Reply-To: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_GRD==-jj7vUzyGEHJG298J0CxGWSysbBqq2hvRR9c7w@mail.gmail.com>

How does "spy-by-crypto" work?

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:53 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> DIRNSA said at Atlantic Council on 21 January that NSA spying
> ("intelligence")
> and information protection (IAD) to be meshed. Separation not suitable for
> current requirement.
>
> Outside partners to aid dual tech: spy-by-crypto.
>
>
>
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Jan 22 16:13:21 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 16:13:21 -0800
Subject: Tor Project Crowdsources over $200k, Overall, 75% of funding comes
 from 'da feds'
Message-ID: <56A2C5A1.4060900@riseup.net>

Just a note for those who weren't keeping track back in 'the day' and
think a project's funding source itself affects project outcomes. Abbie
Hoffman got the funding for the Cooper Square Free Store, where
Yippie!'s plans to disrupt the 1968 Democratic National Convention were
hatched, from a YMCA grant for "Youth Services".

If you're a 'revolutionary', you're a dead man on furlough anyway and
the more people use tor, the more cost-prohibitive it becomes for 'da
feds' to stalk them. I consider anti-tor sentiments to intrinsically
play into the hands of [insert evil gubmint name here] intel agencies.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


Tor Project raises over $200,000 in attempt to “diversify” its funding

/Activist group took in about $2.5M in 2014, mostly from US government
sources./

As a result of its recent crowdfunding campaign, the Tor Project
announced
<https://blog.torproject.org/blog/transparency-openness-and-our-2014-financials>
Thursday that it had raised over $200,000 from more than 5,000
individuals over nearly two months.

The organization also released its 2014 Form 990
<https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2696858-2014-TorProject-Combined-Form990-PC-Audit-Results.html>,
the financial document that all nonprofits must file with the IRS.

As of 2014, the organization took in about $2.5 million
<https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2696858-2014-TorProject-Combined-Form990-PC-Audit-Results.html#document/p17/a272897> annually,
roughly 75 percent of that coming from grants from
US government institutions such as Radio Free Asia and the State Department.

Shari Steele, the new head of the Tor Project, told Ars recently
<http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/01/going-forward-the-tor-project-wants-to-be-less-reliant-on-us-govt-funding/>
that the organization wants to diversify its funding and, over time,
become less reliant on government sources of income.

> "I can't deny that there are lots of people within the Tor community
> and lots of people who either are users of Tor or would be users of
> Tor who are concerned about the fact that so much of the money—or any
> of the money—is coming from US government sources," she said. "But the
> reality is that is where the money is coming from. And the
> organization needs money in order to survive. So we're going to take
> this step by step and try to expand the funding sources and then there
> might be conversation about how we do things. But we're very, very
> grateful for our current funding sources."
http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/01/tor-project-raises-over-200000-in-attempt-to-diversify-its-funding/

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From admin at pilobilus.net  Fri Jan 22 14:02:49 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 17:02:49 -0500
Subject: [cryptome] NSA Spy-by-Crypto
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_GRD==-jj7vUzyGEHJG298J0CxGWSysbBqq2hvRR9c7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CANFTA0_GRD==-jj7vUzyGEHJG298J0CxGWSysbBqq2hvRR9c7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A2A709.6050002@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/22/2016 03:46 PM, Michael Best wrote:

> How does "spy-by-crypto" work?

If you can't beat them, buy them out:  Compromised cryptographic
tools are a rich source of intelligence.

Historical example:

http://www.mediafilter.org/caq/cryptogate/

Current example:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/12/nsagchq_exploit.html

:o)



> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:53 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com 
> <mailto:jya at pipeline.com>> wrote:
> 
> DIRNSA said at Atlantic Council on 21 January that NSA spying 
> ("intelligence") and information protection (IAD) to be meshed.
> Separation not suitable for current requirement.
> 
> Outside partners to aid dual tech: spy-by-crypto.
> 
> 
> 
> 

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 12:50:17 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 17:50:17 -0300
Subject: [cryptome] NSA Spy-by-Crypto
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_GRD==-jj7vUzyGEHJG298J0CxGWSysbBqq2hvRR9c7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1aMhjk-00072R-6t@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CANFTA0_GRD==-jj7vUzyGEHJG298J0CxGWSysbBqq2hvRR9c7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a2964d.c5e48c0a.3f41a.0b96@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:46:18 -0500
Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:

> How does "spy-by-crypto" work?


	why don't you ask your owners? fill a 'foia'  or something. 




> 
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:53 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> 
> > DIRNSA said at Atlantic Council on 21 January that NSA spying
> > ("intelligence")
> > and information protection (IAD) to be meshed. Separation not
> > suitable for current requirement.
> >
> > Outside partners to aid dual tech: spy-by-crypto.
> >
> >
> >
> >




From gmoss82 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 20:35:51 2016
From: gmoss82 at gmail.com (Greg Moss)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 20:35:51 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CALA4K1QoCEA5n40vVjO3kFY4qe1kCCgAKk9tJNgW5aTMaQhutQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think its a great idea All in the protection of America people.
On Jan 22, 2016 8:28 PM, <dan at geer.org> wrote:

>  | A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
>  | anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a
>  | license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a car on a
>  | highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate," Erik Barnett,
>  | an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and Customs
>  | Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the Department of
>  | Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's identifiers are ignored
>  | most of the time by law enforcement. Law enforcement will use the
>  | identifiers, though, to determine the driver's identity if the car is
>  | involved in a legal infraction or otherwise becomes a matter of public
>  | interest. Similarly, should not every individual be required to
>  | display a 'license plate' on the digital super-highway?"
>
> In a world of circulating *private sector* plate readers and cameras
> fed to databases where it is dollars, not writs, that open the door,
> the analogy above is bullshit.  As they say in the law, falsus in uno,
> falsus in omnibus.
>
> --dan
>
>
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From dan at geer.org  Fri Jan 22 20:22:45 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 23:22:45 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Jan 2016 23:19:10 -0500."
 <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>

 | A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
 | anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a
 | license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a car on a
 | highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate," Erik Barnett,
 | an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and Customs
 | Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the Department of
 | Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's identifiers are ignored
 | most of the time by law enforcement. Law enforcement will use the
 | identifiers, though, to determine the driver's identity if the car is
 | involved in a legal infraction or otherwise becomes a matter of public
 | interest. Similarly, should not every individual be required to
 | display a 'license plate' on the digital super-highway?"

In a world of circulating *private sector* plate readers and cameras
fed to databases where it is dollars, not writs, that open the door,
the analogy above is bullshit.  As they say in the law, falsus in uno,
falsus in omnibus.

--dan




From dan at geer.org  Fri Jan 22 20:59:21 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 23:59:21 -0500
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:22:41 +0100."
 <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160123045921.B1748A06DA9@palinka.tinho.net>

 | 
 | i can't tell anymore,
 |  what are legit infosec research efforts,
 |   and what are subterfuge facades of same...


Don't Worry, Be Happy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 22 15:17:16 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 00:17:16 +0100
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <56a1bf8e.0b50370a.d5bf5.ffffa128@mx.google.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SmVGk3OiNdcWqKD8WcX7dRKGZX81Sa4s-wmr0+5tkHXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a1bf8e.0b50370a.d5bf5.ffffa128@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2198748.ZE5UmyypRB@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 22 stycznia 2016 02:34:02 juan pisze:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 05:03:54 +0100
> 
> coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/20/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ... Maybe at the time
> > > 
> > > 	when the US wasn't in a state of perpetual war?
> > 
> > maybe juan's the fed.
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > > 	you mean like tor?
> > 
> > casting suspicion on Tor rather than OPSEC..  Fed :P
> 
> 	DUDE! Aren't you on the payroll of the pentagon via the tor
> 	cunts?

Awww, what a cute little butthurt. :)
As if the point was spot-on.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 20:31:13 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 01:31:13 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 23:22:45 -0500
dan at geer.org wrote:


> In a world of circulating *private sector* plate readers 

	dude, the private sector, unlike you and your pals, don't go
	around murdering people for fun.

	no doubt the private sector are your partners in crime, BUT the
	private sector per se is not a threat, unlike you, the
	government.

	it's obvious that you keep underscoring the threats coming from
	the the private sector....so that people don't realize that you
	are a way bigger threat. 

	

> and cameras
> fed to databases where it is dollars, not writs, that open the door,
> the analogy above is bullshit.  As they say in the law, falsus in uno,
> falsus in omnibus.

	LMAO at the latin snobbery. How do you say "US government
	worthless shitbag" in latin? 

	





> 
> --dan
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 22 20:56:58 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 01:56:58 -0300
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course
 Spring 2016)
In-Reply-To: <2198748.ZE5UmyypRB@lapuntu>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SmVGk3OiNdcWqKD8WcX7dRKGZX81Sa4s-wmr0+5tkHXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56a1bf8e.0b50370a.d5bf5.ffffa128@mx.google.com>
 <2198748.ZE5UmyypRB@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a30891.08f28c0a.23eea.40ae@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 00:17:16 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia piątek, 22 stycznia 2016 02:34:02 juan pisze:
> > On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 05:03:54 +0100
> > 
> > coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 1/20/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > ... Maybe at the time
> > > > 
> > > > 	when the US wasn't in a state of perpetual war?
> > > 
> > > maybe juan's the fed.
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > > 	you mean like tor?
> > > 
> > > casting suspicion on Tor rather than OPSEC..  Fed :P
> > 
> > 	DUDE! Aren't you on the payroll of the pentagon via the tor
> > 	cunts?
> 
> Awww, what a cute little butthurt. :)
> As if the point was spot-on.


	Your deductive skills are impressive. First imagine something,
	then draw some unwarranted conclusion. 

	but speaking of butthurt...maybe that's how people feel when
	their retarded, I mean so-clever, pro 'good' government views
	take a beating?
	
	By the way, I'm still waiting for you Rysiek to elaborate on
	your previous bullshit post about the fbi or something. Maybe
	ask dan geer for help? 






> 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 00:11:27 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 05:11:27 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:01:20 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 01:31:13 juan pisze:
> > On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 23:22:45 -0500
> > 
> > dan at geer.org wrote:
> > > In a world of circulating *private sector* plate readers
> > 
> > 	dude, the private sector, unlike you and your pals, don't go
> > 	around murdering people for fun.
> 
> Awww, that's so quaint:
> http://www.alternet.org/story/146579/coca_cola's_role_in_the_assassinations_of_union_leaders_explored_in_powerful_new_documentary
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi#Incidents
> 
> It's cute how some think

	It's cute how you left out the rest of my message.

	What's the problem rysiek? You only can 'argue' by trying to
	distort what I say? 




> that power only corrupts and brings out evil
> in people if it happens to have a form of a government agency; and
> conversely, that no good can ever come from a government agency.

	Dude, coca cola is mostly a creation of your state.
	Trademarks and all that bullshit. And whatever crimes they
	commit they know your state will back them.


	And the general fact remains : A bunch of assholes who sell
	colored water don't have any power unlike the fucking psychos
	who claim a monopoly on 'justice'. Same psychos you
	gallantly support. 

> 
> Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. 

	Sure. So, who's going to protect 'us' from coca cola? Ah clowns
	like you, dan geer and obomba. 

	And whp's going to protect sane people from you and your state
	pals eh rysiek? 


> Wether or not it
> is private sector, mafia, government, or civil society, if it has
> enough power, it *will* corrupt people.


	This last tautology isn't even well formed...
	





> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 00:15:48 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 05:15:48 -0300
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course
 Spring 2016)
In-Reply-To: <5794088.5PEo1FcysR@lapuntu>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2198748.ZE5UmyypRB@lapuntu>
 <56a30891.08f28c0a.23eea.40ae@mx.google.com>
 <5794088.5PEo1FcysR@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a336fd.94138c0a.f486c.5241@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:03:01 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 01:56:58 juan pisze:
> > 	By the way, I'm still waiting for you Rysiek to elaborate on
> > 	your previous bullshit post about the fbi or something.
> > Maybe ask dan geer for help?
> 
> Still waiting for you to elaborate on the free market on somesuch
> bullshit from months ago, dear pot. :)



	Check the archive worthless shitbag. As I mentioned in more
	than one previous post, you left the conversation after it
	becaem painfuly clear that you don't even know what you are
	arguing against. 
	





	
















	

> 




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 07:41:16 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:41:16 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>

rysiek wrote:
> It's cute how some think that power only corrupts and brings out evil in 
> people if it happens to have a form of a government agency; and conversely, 
> that no good can ever come from a government agency.
>
> Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether or not it is 
> private sector, mafia, government, or civil society, if it has enough power, 
> it *will* corrupt people.

+1

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 07:44:55 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:44:55 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> A bunch of assholes who sell colored water don't have any power unlike the fucking psychos who claim a monopoly on 'justice'. Same psychos you gallantly support. 

DUDE! You've LOST it!

Who do you think finances the people with the guns who enforce the just-us?

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 22 23:01:20 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:01:20 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 01:31:13 juan pisze:
> On Fri, 22 Jan 2016 23:22:45 -0500
> 
> dan at geer.org wrote:
> > In a world of circulating *private sector* plate readers
> 
> 	dude, the private sector, unlike you and your pals, don't go
> 	around murdering people for fun.

Awww, that's so quaint:
http://www.alternet.org/story/146579/coca_cola's_role_in_the_assassinations_of_union_leaders_explored_in_powerful_new_documentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi#Incidents

It's cute how some think that power only corrupts and brings out evil in 
people if it happens to have a form of a government agency; and conversely, 
that no good can ever come from a government agency.

Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether or not it is 
private sector, mafia, government, or civil society, if it has enough power, 
it *will* corrupt people.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 22 23:03:01 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 08:03:01 +0100
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <56a30891.08f28c0a.23eea.40ae@mx.google.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2198748.ZE5UmyypRB@lapuntu> <56a30891.08f28c0a.23eea.40ae@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5794088.5PEo1FcysR@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 01:56:58 juan pisze:
> 	By the way, I'm still waiting for you Rysiek to elaborate on
> 	your previous bullshit post about the fbi or something. Maybe
> 	ask dan geer for help?

Still waiting for you to elaborate on the free market on somesuch bullshit 
from months ago, dear pot. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "kettle" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 11:48:33 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:48:33 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com> <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A3D911.4030102@riseup.net>

Scientific American ‏@sciam calling Juan. "You don't know as much as you
think":

"New research suggests that people who think they are experts tend to
fall into the trap of overclaiming"

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-don-t-know-as-much-as-you-think-false-expertise/

But you prolly reject that b/c 'booshie-sci", and besides, you know better.

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 12:03:02 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:03:02 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com> <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>

This asswad thinks he's telling me something I don't know.

But the BEST part?

He starts with a question, and like a true fascist, answers it himself
with his own opinion, the only opinion he doesn't do a blackshirt-like
shout-down in response to.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


juan wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:44:55 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> juan wrote:
>>> A bunch of assholes who sell colored water don't have any power
>>> unlike the fucking psychos who claim a monopoly on 'justice'. Same
>>> psychos you gallantly support. 
>> DUDE! You've LOST it!
>>
>> Who do you think finances the people with the guns who enforce the
>> just-us?
> 	Razer, do make an effort. How do *you* think is government
> 	financed? 
>
> 	Maybe this is news to you : governemnt is financed through a
> 	mechanism called 'taxation'. And another called INFLATION. And
> 	'borrowing' repaid(if ever) by more taxes and inflation, And the
> 	inflation/borrowing bit is done partly through the 'private'
> 	banking mafia...that can't fucking exist unless they get LEGAL
> 	PRIVILEGES from the government. 
>
> 	The government is a criminal organization by its own nature
> 	(something any anarchist worth his salt doesn't even start to
> 	question).
>
> 	Businesses operating honestly on the other hand have absolutely
> 	nothing to do with 'governing'. You go to the supermarket, buy
> 	stuff you need, pay for it and that's it. It's supposed to be a
> 	'mutually beneficial exchange'.
>
> 	But if a business were to FORCE you to 'buy' their stuff or
> 	services, exactly like GOVERNMENT DOES, then it wouldn't
> 	actually be a business...
>
> 	




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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 12:35:37 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:35:37 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3e01f.8a4c370a.2e44f.ffff957b@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com> <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>
 <56a3e01f.8a4c370a.2e44f.ffff957b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A3E419.6050506@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> gov't is financed by corporations. Which is, of course lefty nonsense. 
Funny... It's right-wingers who think the 'banksters' control the
gubmint. Heck! They even think the Rothchilds (about the only "Jewish
bankers" anyone can name since WWII) run the whole fucking show! Banks,
almost every single one of them, from thrifts to GoldmanSachs, are
corporations.

More evidence you just spew.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 12:37:47 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:37:47 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3e184.8e978c0a.fb3b8.ffff98b1@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com> <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3D911.4030102@riseup.net>
 <56a3e184.8e978c0a.fb3b8.ffff98b1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A3E49B.6080303@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:48:33 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> Scientific American ‏@sciam calling Juan. "You don't know as much as
>> you think":
>>
>> "New research suggests that people who think they are experts tend to
>> fall into the trap of overclaiming"
>>
>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-don-t-know-as-much-as-you-think-false-expertise/
>>
>> But you prolly reject that b/c 'booshie-sci", and besides, you know
>> better.
>
>
> ...like parroting pseudo scientific garbage from the establishment. 

As I was saying...You know better.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 13:07:24 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:07:24 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3e776.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff983c@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com> <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>
 <56a3e01f.8a4c370a.2e44f.ffff957b@mx.google.com>
 <56A3E419.6050506@riseup.net>
 <56a3e776.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff983c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A3EB8C.9040709@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> are you defending the banking mafia?

ROTF! No. Just pointing out the discrepancies in your logic.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 10:08:24 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:08:24 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu> <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
 <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-L1nfMp16-TNoD4hRXTM2HUgPoVNGVbbRWr19cybZ2wQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> Who do you think finances the people with the guns who enforce the just-us?

Social engineering... the control and plundering of the weak and
stupid many, by the strong and crafty few... been going on since the
dawn of humanity.
The internet's pretty cool, you can now observe other groups outside
your own collective stupid being fucked by their own fuckers and
confirm by comparison that you're being fucked in the same way.
Wake up.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 10:23:39 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:23:39 -0500
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <20160123045921.B1748A06DA9@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAJVRA1Qj+KQVPUxen=_ejdru44bQ20snvfwMRYyVMe=Dd2KhLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123045921.B1748A06DA9@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29hEsF2MuNGZSerSoabZDY1ij3+XDNe4Su79TpgP-4MDg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 11:59 PM,  <dan at geer.org> wrote:
>  |   and what are subterfuge facades of same...
>
> Don't Worry, Be Happy
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

... yet more social engineering. Dropped by a high artist no less.

Then again, what isn't...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fuck+the+government




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Jan 23 14:07:57 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 14:07:57 -0800
Subject: Drivers Licenses? We Don' Need No Steekin' Licenses
Message-ID: <56A3F9BD.5040606@riseup.net>


*The Decline of the Driver's License*

/Fewer people of all ages are getting them, and it’s not quite clear why./

Julie Beck Jan 22, 2016, The Atlantic

Remember how, in /Clueless, /Alicia Silverstone’s character Cher fails
her driver’s test after nearly killing a biker and scraping her car
alongside several parked cars? And then how she asks, “Do you think I
should write them a note?” as she drives away? And then how, at the
climax of the movie, her friend Tai (Brittany Murphy) calls her “a
virgin who can’t drive <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY0bHULptWQ>”
and it is just the harshest burn?

Well, that was a fictionalized version of the ‘90s, and this is now.
Things are different.

Young people are not getting driver’s licenses so much anymore. In fact,
no one is. According to a new study
<http://www.umich.edu/%7Eumtriswt/PDF/UMTRI-2016-4_Abstract_English.pdf>
by Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle at the University of Michigan
Transportation Research Institute, the percentage of people with a
driver’s license decreased between 2011 and 2014, across all age groups.
For people aged 16 to 44, that percentage has been decreasing steadily 
since 1983.

It’s especially pronounced for the teens—in 2014, just 24.5 percent of
16-year-olds had a license, a 47-percent decrease from 1983, when 46.2
percent did. And at the tail end of the teen years, 69 percent of
19-year-olds had licenses in 2014, compared to 87.3 percent in 1983, a
21-percent decrease.

Among young adults, the declines are smaller but still significant—16.4
percent fewer 20-to-24-year-olds had licenses in 2014 than in 1983, 11
percent fewer 25-to-29-year-olds, 10.3 percent fewer 30-to-34-year-olds,
and 7.4 percent fewer 35-to-39-year-olds. For people between 40 and 54,
the declines were small, less than 5 percent.

Above 55, the story’s a little different. Older adults were more likely
to have a driver’s license in 2014 than in 1983—in the case of those 70
and older, 43.6 percent more likely. But these age groups, too, saw a
modest decline from 2011 to 2014.

The researchers didn’t look into what the reasons for this decline might
be, but in an earlier study, they surveyed
<http://www.umich.edu/%7Eumtriswt/PDF/UMTRI-2013-22_Abstract_English.pdf>young
adults ages 18 to 39 without driver’s licenses about why they don’t have
them. The top three reasons were: “too busy or not enough time to get a
driver’s license” (37 percent), “owning and maintaining a vehicle is too
expensive”(32 percent), and “able to get transportation from others” (31
percent).

Another reason that springs to mind is that more people are living in
cities and using public transportation. But in the survey, only 17
percent said their reason for not having a license was that they
preferred public transit.

In other studies, Sivak and Schoettle suggest that driving in general
may have already peaked in the United States. The total distance driven
per person in the U.S. was at its highest in 2004, and by 2013, it had
decreased by 9 percent. In part, this may be because people are
traveling less in general: Comparing 2004 to 2014, people spent less
time traveling to places to eat and drink, to buy goods and services, to
work, school, and to leisure activities. The ease of Amazon, the rise of
teleworking, and the endless entertainment provided by the Internet may
be leading people to stay home more, but it’s hard to say—there’s no
research available that explains these trends. A /New York Times article
<http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/us/report-finds-americans-are-driving-less-led-by-youth.html>/
from 2013 mentions unemployment as a reason for young people buying
fewer cars, but as Jordan Weissman noted in /The Atlantic/
<http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/crash-the-decline-of-us-driving-in-6-charts/281528/>
that same year, downward trends in driving started before the recession.

Maybe it’s just that people today have more things they’d rather do than
practice parallel parking between traffic cones. Or maybe it’s because
the photos on those plastic cards are almost never flattering. Sivak and
Schoettle are hoping to soon study possible reasons for the drop in
driver’s licenses. But regardless of the cause, it seems that if you
want to insult a teen today, shaming them for not being able to operate
a motor vehicle might not be the way to go.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/the-decline-of-the-drivers-license/425169/?utm_source=SFFB
-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 10:43:43 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:43:43 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
 <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:44:55 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > A bunch of assholes who sell colored water don't have any power
> > unlike the fucking psychos who claim a monopoly on 'justice'. Same
> > psychos you gallantly support. 
> 
> DUDE! You've LOST it!
> 
> Who do you think finances the people with the guns who enforce the
> just-us?

	Razer, do make an effort. How do *you* think is government
	financed? 

	Maybe this is news to you : governemnt is financed through a
	mechanism called 'taxation'. And another called INFLATION. And
	'borrowing' repaid(if ever) by more taxes and inflation, And the
	inflation/borrowing bit is done partly through the 'private'
	banking mafia...that can't fucking exist unless they get LEGAL
	PRIVILEGES from the government. 

	The government is a criminal organization by its own nature
	(something any anarchist worth his salt doesn't even start to
	question).

	Businesses operating honestly on the other hand have absolutely
	nothing to do with 'governing'. You go to the supermarket, buy
	stuff you need, pay for it and that's it. It's supposed to be a
	'mutually beneficial exchange'.

	But if a business were to FORCE you to 'buy' their stuff or
	services, exactly like GOVERNMENT DOES, then it wouldn't
	actually be a business...

	





	






> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 10:55:41 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:55:41 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu> <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a3ccf1.458f8c0a.60e4e.ffff8e7c@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:41:16 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

rysiek vomited:
> > Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether or not
> > it is private sector, mafia, government, or civil society, if it
> > has enough power, it *will* corrupt people.
> 
> +1
> 

	
	Anybody(rysiek) who equates 'civil society' (voluntary
	organization) with the mafia/government - a criminal
	organization by definition - shows that he doesn't know what
	the fuck he's talking about.


	
	


	






	







From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:17:27 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:17:27 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
 <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a3e01f.8a4c370a.2e44f.ffff957b@mx.google.com>



	So, let's recapitulate a bit, the self parody is almost unreal. 

	First Razer asks : 

	"Who do you think finances the people with the guns who enforce	the just-us?  "

	I answer his  question and explain to him how his
	'anarchist' government, including DVM is financed. Taxation,
	robbery, bla bla.

	What's his comeback? 

	"This asswad thinks he's telling me something I don't know." 

	Well, that's funny because you didn't suggest you knew
	it. As a matter of fact what you were apparently saying was that
	gov't is financed by corporations. Which is, of course lefty
	nonsense. 

	 
	> But the BEST part?
	> 
	> He starts with a question, and like a true fascist, answers
	it himself


	Yes, that's the best part - in a way. **Razer** asks a 
	question, and when I answer it, he calls ma a fascist. Because
	I answered his fucking question. Razer can't keep track of the
	stuff he wrote ten minutes ago.

	



> with his own opinion, the only opinion he doesn't do a blackshirt-like
> shout-down in response to.
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:23:20 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:23:20 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A3D911.4030102@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
 <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3D911.4030102@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a3e184.8e978c0a.fb3b8.ffff98b1@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:48:33 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> Scientific American ‏@sciam calling Juan. "You don't know as much as
> you think":
> 
> "New research suggests that people who think they are experts tend to
> fall into the trap of overclaiming"
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-don-t-know-as-much-as-you-think-false-expertise/
> 
> But you prolly reject that b/c 'booshie-sci", and besides, you know
> better.



	Congrats Razer. You used a time honored commie/fascist tactic.
	Invoking 'science' to 'prove' that there's something wrong with
	people you can't refute. 


	Yes Razer, nothing says 'anarchist' like parroting pseudo
	scientific garbage from the establishment. You truly are a
	master of anarchism. A real free thinker. Free as in free
	refills. 

	"New research suggests that people who think they are experts
	tend to fall into the trap of overclaiming"

	Does that claim include your 'intellectual' masters, the
	scientists themselves? Well, maybe they don't just think they
	are 'experts', They truly are! 

























From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 12:48:45 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:48:45 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A3E419.6050506@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com>
 <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56a335f7.524a370a.8b214.51fb@mx.google.com>
 <56A39FF7.6040702@riseup.net>
 <56a3ca23.0ed9370a.c432a.ffffeecf@mx.google.com>
 <56A3DC76.6010907@riseup.net>
 <56a3e01f.8a4c370a.2e44f.ffff957b@mx.google.com>
 <56A3E419.6050506@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a3e776.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff983c@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 12:35:37 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > gov't is financed by corporations. Which is, of course lefty
> > nonsense. 
> Funny... It's right-wingers who think the 'banksters' control the
> gubmint.


	Any sensible person knows that banksters and government are
	partners. Not only 'right wingers' know it, whatever you  think
	you mean by that term (hint : you don't have a clue)


	Anyway, are you showing your true colors again razer, and like a
	good 'progressive' american fascist, are you defending the
	banking mafia? 

	So let me explain it again, so that you can't 'quote me out of
	context' like you just did. 

	Your progressive government is financed by taxation, and
	financial scams like inflation. Those scams are partially
	arranged by the nominally 'private' baking mafia that can only
	do what it does because your government backs them. With guns.


	Now, true master of DVM 'anarchism', tell me again that you
	'know all that'.


	
> Heck! They even think the Rothchilds (about the only "Jewish
> bankers" anyone can name since WWII) run the whole fucking show!
> Banks, almost every single one of them, from thrifts to GoldmanSachs,
> are corporations.

	Yes, and?


	So you actually didn't get a single thing from my post
	explaining to you how your loved DVM, and all the rest
	of your 'anarchist' herd-of-monkeys government is financed.

	Or are  you playing dumb? Which in your case doesn't take much
	effort. 



> 
> More evidence you just spew.









From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 13:23:57 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:23:57 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <1638197.AUs0p1YeiT@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
 <56a3ccf1.458f8c0a.60e4e.ffff8e7c@mx.google.com>
 <1638197.AUs0p1YeiT@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a3efb6.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff9b8a@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:54:14 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 15:55:41 juan pisze:
> > On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:41:16 -0800
> > Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > 
> > rysiek vomited:
> > > > Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether or
> > > > not it is private sector, mafia, government, or civil society,
> > > > if it has enough power, it *will* corrupt people.
> > > 
> > > +1
> > 
> > 	Anybody(rysiek) who equates 'civil society' (voluntary
> > 	organization) with the mafia/government - a criminal
> > 	organization by definition - shows that he doesn't know what
> > 	the fuck he's talking about.
> 
> Are you saying criminal organisations never are (or at least start
> of) as voluntary ones?

	The targets/victims of those organizations are not, by
	definition, 'voluntary'. Like you know, government subjects.
	Subjects. As in, being subjected to. Against their will.

	The mafia is a 'voluntary organization' only if you look at the
	mafiosos. Their VICTIMS, who are extorted, are not 'voluntary'
	extorted. 

	I don't really need to explain such painfully obvious facts? You
	are just trolling. 


> 
> Are you saying no voluntary organisations can ever be or become
> criminal?
	
	A voluntary organization can stop being voluntary. At that
	point it's not voluntary anymore. It's becomes a state or
	state-like organization attacking people. 

	Shouldn't be too hard to understand eh?


> 
> 
> Also, I never "equated civil society with mafia/government"

	Dude, your whole quote and post are there. You listed mafia and
	civil society in the same sentece. If your writing is sloppy
	it's not my fault.



> (making
> such sweeping comparisons seems to be your job here). I said that
> even within civil society, if a given organisation has too much
> power, it might corrupt said organisation (or rather, people within
> it).


	Begs the question, what kind of power do they have and how they
	got it? 

> 
> Might I offer an example:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Watch_Foundation#Blacklist_of_web_pages
> 

	What do you think those idiots stand for? They look like a
	typical right winger puritan assholes to me. 

	"minimise the availability of 'potentially criminal' " 

	'criminal' as defined by (your) state. 

	"criminally obscene adult content in the UK"

	Are you trying to make my points for me rysiek. Why thanks.

	I do realize that it's possible for assholes like these to be
	dangerous, but, are they voluntariy selling something on the
	market place? Or trying to 'morally' police their betters, and
	more than likely have good deal of state and theocracy backing? 

	(do you know that the UK is a theocracy I hope?)



> /me now waits, eating popcorn, for the inevitable No True Scotsman
> 

	Sure. That coming from such a master of state logic like you.
	As in, power bad, but government good. Or is it, "power
	actually good" when your team uses it? 





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 23 12:45:56 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:45:56 +0100
Subject: [liberationtech] MS&E 297: Hacking for Defense (New Course Spring
 2016)
In-Reply-To: <56a336fd.94138c0a.f486c.5241@mx.google.com>
References: <CANhci9F8RNmOF80WvWJ5sfDpdCU_BczveOoHCXYL2F5AC5F2JQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5794088.5PEo1FcysR@lapuntu> <56a336fd.94138c0a.f486c.5241@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3122396.zsGVpHrZ8m@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 05:15:48 juan pisze:
> > Still waiting for you to elaborate on the free market on somesuch
> > bullshit from months ago, dear pot. :)
> 
> 	Check the archive worthless shitbag. As I mentioned in more
> 	than one previous post, you left the conversation after it
> 	becaem painfuly clear that you don't even know what you are
> 	arguing against.

That was precisely my point: I had (and still have) no idea what exactly you 
mean by "free market", apart from "google it".

But hey, being called a "worthless shitbag" by none other than your 
magnificent self is already way more than I could have ever hoped for. :*

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 23 12:47:48 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:47:48 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3e184.8e978c0a.fb3b8.ffff98b1@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A3D911.4030102@riseup.net>
 <56a3e184.8e978c0a.fb3b8.ffff98b1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9693669.eTMtOTX2XY@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 17:23:20 juan pisze:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 11:48:33 -0800
> 
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > Scientific American ‏@sciam calling Juan. "You don't know as much as
> > you think":
> > 
> > "New research suggests that people who think they are experts tend to
> > fall into the trap of overclaiming"
> > 
> > http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-don-t-know-as-much-as-you-th
> > ink-false-expertise/
> > 
> > But you prolly reject that b/c 'booshie-sci", and besides, you know
> > better.
> 
> 	Congrats Razer. You used a time honored commie/fascist tactic.

God, I believe we have a win! :D

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 23 12:54:14 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:54:14 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3ccf1.458f8c0a.60e4e.ffff8e7c@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
 <56a3ccf1.458f8c0a.60e4e.ffff8e7c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1638197.AUs0p1YeiT@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 15:55:41 juan pisze:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:41:16 -0800
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> rysiek vomited:
> > > Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether or not
> > > it is private sector, mafia, government, or civil society, if it
> > > has enough power, it *will* corrupt people.
> > 
> > +1
> 
> 	Anybody(rysiek) who equates 'civil society' (voluntary
> 	organization) with the mafia/government - a criminal
> 	organization by definition - shows that he doesn't know what
> 	the fuck he's talking about.

Are you saying criminal organisations never are (or at least start of) as 
voluntary ones?

Are you saying no voluntary organisations can ever be or become criminal?


Also, I never "equated civil society with mafia/government" (making such 
sweeping comparisons seems to be your job here). I said that even within civil 
society, if a given organisation has too much power, it might corrupt said 
organisation (or rather, people within it).

Might I offer an example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Watch_Foundation#Blacklist_of_web_pages

/me now waits, eating popcorn, for the inevitable No True Scotsman

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 23 14:03:38 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 23:03:38 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a3efb6.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff9b8a@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1638197.AUs0p1YeiT@lapuntu> <56a3efb6.035e8c0a.566b4.ffff9b8a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1866694.CBmBrSBzAC@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 23 stycznia 2016 18:23:57 juan pisze:
> > Are you saying criminal organisations never are (or at least start
> > of) as voluntary ones?
> 
> 	The targets/victims of those organizations are not, by
> 	definition, 'voluntary'. Like you know, government subjects.
> 	Subjects. As in, being subjected to. Against their will.
> 
> 	The mafia is a 'voluntary organization' only if you look at the
> 	mafiosos. Their VICTIMS, who are extorted, are not 'voluntary'
> 	extorted.
> (...)

I did not say a single word about victims. But hey, let's play: if a mafia 
outlet kills a member of this very mafia outlet (due to some internal 
business), does that make that (dead) mafioso a victim?

If so, does that suddenly make the mafioso a "non-voluntary" mafioso?

Also, I would say that Wikipedia became a "victim" of Internet Watch 
Foundation's Internet censorship. I am perfectly happy to agree that Wikipedia 
was not a "voluntary" victim of it. However, does that make IWF suddenly not a 
civil society organisation?

Or, perhaps, we can actually have civil society organisations that (sadly) 
show signs of being corrupted by the power (over *something*)?

> > Are you saying no voluntary organisations can ever be or become
> > criminal?
> 
> 	A voluntary organization can stop being voluntary. At that
> 	point it's not voluntary anymore. It's becomes a state or
> 	state-like organization attacking people.
> 
> 	Shouldn't be too hard to understand eh?

Well, at what point a voluntary organisation stops being voluntary? When they 
commit their first crime? I am confused about your usage of the word 
"voluntary" here. Are you not actually looking for "non-criminal"?

> > Also, I never "equated civil society with mafia/government"
> 
> 	Dude, your whole quote and post are there. You listed mafia and
> 	civil society in the same sentece. If your writing is sloppy
> 	it's not my fault.

If that's your standard for "equating", then I have to ask... Why are you 
equating civil society to mafia? After all, you just "listed civil society and 
mafia in the same sentence".

Here it is again, for your distinct viewing pleasure:
> You listed mafia and civil society in the same sentece.
 
:)

> > (making
> > such sweeping comparisons seems to be your job here). I said that
> > even within civil society, if a given organisation has too much
> > power, it might corrupt said organisation (or rather, people within
> > it).
> 
> 	Begs the question, what kind of power do they have and how they
> 	got it?

That's actually a valid point. Your default answer will be "Teh Gubmint", and 
in the particular case of IWF, you'd actually be right.

Thing is, does that mean that we have:
 - a civil society organisation
 - that *you agree* has been to some extent corrupted by power they got?

It's a "yes/no" question.

> > Might I offer an example:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Watch_Foundation#Blacklist_of_web_p
> > ages
> 	What do you think those idiots stand for? They look like a
> 	typical right winger puritan assholes to me.

And yet they are a civil society organisation. My point stands: *even* civil 
society can be corrupted by power. Do you not agree?

> > /me now waits, eating popcorn, for the inevitable No True Scotsman
> 
> 	Sure. That coming from such a master of state logic like you.
> 	As in, power bad, but government good.

Governments are not good in and of themselves. But seeing *everything* that a 
government touches as evil/bad/criminal/your-word-here is akin to seeing 
everything that contains mercury (the element) as toxic. If that doesn't ring 
a bell, let me help you with that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy

So basically, yes, I am now calling your anti-Tor bullshit akin to the anti-
vaccine crowd bullshit (or, as I prefer to call them, "pro-disease").

> 	Or is it, "power actually good" when your team uses it?

Power bad always, needs to be checked, *regardless* of whether or not it 
(power) happens to be in the hands of a government, mafia, private sector, 
civil society, or pixies and unicorns.

Problem is, there are many, many different power structures. Governments are 
one kind of these. But there are many more, and they emerge on their own, all 
the time. Looking *only* on governments (and mafia) and missing the broader 
picture is just plain silly.


Still, sometimes I would love to have your simple "gummint bad, private sector 
good, remove gummint and the free market will cure cancer" view of the world. 
One can dream...

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 23 23:19:22 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 02:19:22 -0500
Subject: Silk Ulbricht... Lawfare Over The Fourth
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29YcjYRpQz6d-eba-3MSoe2Ccbarr_0-3atY59N9-rJrw@mail.gmail.com>

https://cryptome.org/2016/01/ulbricht-appeal-045.pdf

For background, application to various, including surveillance...
General Warrants, Writs Of Assistance, Particularity, ...




From themikebest at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 06:53:59 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 09:53:59 -0500
Subject: PROMIS/Inslaw Affair docs
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_o9kbg+sc_ddc6f=iGKMAbArNXSaeG9stUH13kyN1g8A@mail.gmail.com>

I've uploaded a few dozen documents on PROMIS to That1Archive.neocities.org
<http://that1archive.neocities.org/>, including reports, memos, research
papers, briefing papers and an affidavit.

Background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inslaw


--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 11:24:27 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:24:27 -0500
Subject: America: *owned*
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29vKedKYTmRvPLGuU1x6GOYvCLjaz1Akx+eQzfdjkuzFA@mail.gmail.com>

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/17/billion-dollar-surveillance-blimp-launch-maryland/
http://tinypic.com/r/r7j7rl/9




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sun Jan 24 13:50:56 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 16:50:56 -0500
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160123042245.618C3A06F22@palinka.tinho.net>
 <56a30259.82d1370a.22ae3.3ff2@mx.google.com> <2162902.XFlArvmDel@lapuntu>
 <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56A54740.6080104@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/23/2016 10:41 AM, Rayzer wrote:
> rysiek wrote:
>> It's cute how some think that power only corrupts and brings
>> out evil in people if it happens to have a form of a
>> government agency; and conversely, that no good can ever come
>> from a government agency.
>> 
>> Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether
>> or not it is private sector, mafia, government, or civil
>> society, if it has enough power, it *will* corrupt people.

"It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people
who want power for the sake of power and that a significant
proportion of such people are imbalanced - in a word, insane."

"Absolute power does not corrupt absolutely, absolute power
attracts the corruptible." - Frank Herbert

Our Mr. Herbert was deep into ecology - including what the think
tank boys and PsyOps shops call 'human ecology.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert#Ideas_and_themes


===================================

Recommended reading:

===================================

National Security and Double Government, Michael J. Glennon

"U.S. national security policy is defined by the network of
executive officials who manage the departments and agencies
responsible for protecting U.S. national security and who,
responding to structural incentives embedded in the U.S. political
system, operate largely removed from public view and from
constitutional constraints."

Full text, 114 pages:
http://harvardnsj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Glennon-Final.pdf

===================================

Rogue Agents, David Teacher

A history of what could be termed "The New Right" in NATO block
covert influence operations from the Cold War through the 1970s.
This quote might influence present company toward reading it:

"In February 1959, Van den Heuvel led a study group to America to
visit the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, a CIA
front group founded in 1955 which changed name in 1961 to become
the Human Ecology Fund, "human ecology" being at the time the
official euphemism for psychological warfare and deprogramming.
Both American organisations were funding conduits for the CIA's
MK-ULTRA programme of research into mind control and brainwashing
(32)."

PDF, 564 pgs, most of it in source doc annexes
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Rogue_Agents

===================================

Attacking Faulty Reasoning, T. Richard Damer

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the
difference. - Samuel Clemens

"Good arguments play a particularly important role in helping us
to make difficult moral decisions. Not only do they help us to
decide what positive action to take but also to avoid actions with
harmful con- sequences. False beliefs, to which faulty reasoning
often leads, blur our moral vision and often result in actions
that cause considerable harm to others. Since we are all re-
sponsible for the consequences of our actions, it is incumbent on
us to base our beliefs and decisions on the conclusions of good
arguments."

257 pgs.
Buy online, or inquire with Textbook Liberation and/or your Postman

===================================

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From gmoss82 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 18:11:56 2016
From: gmoss82 at gmail.com (Greg Moss)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 18:11:56 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
Message-ID: <22289F81-D976-40D4-9363-5A2BADF596D9@gmail.com>

<this thread is hijack before even start! juan and rayzer working for
american 50 cent party?

+1  - this whole news group is a fucking Joke. Fakes with multiple handles. 




On 1/24/16, 5:30 PM, "cypherpunks on behalf of Jerzy Łogiewa" <cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org on behalf of jerzyma at interia.eu> wrote:

>this thread is hijack before even start! juan and rayzer working for
>american 50 cent party?
>
>http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/10/china%E2%80%99s-paid-trolls-meet-50-cent-party
>
>horrible :( i think you try to make this group not useful, full of shit
>
>grarpamp:
>> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/1321243/senior-homeland-security-official-says-internet-anonymity-should-be-outlawed
>> A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
>> anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a
>> license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a car on a
>> highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate," Erik Barnett,
>> an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and Customs
>> Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the Department of
>> Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's identifiers are ignored
>> most of the time by law enforcement. Law enforcement will use the
>> identifiers, though, to determine the driver's identity if the car is
>> involved in a legal infraction or otherwise becomes a matter of public
>> interest. Similarly, should not every individual be required to
>> display a 'license plate' on the digital super-highway?"
>> 





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 24 19:05:20 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 19:05:20 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <22289F81-D976-40D4-9363-5A2BADF596D9@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
 <22289F81-D976-40D4-9363-5A2BADF596D9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A590F0.2080408@riseup.net>

Greg Moss wrote:
> <this thread is hijack before even start! juan and rayzer working for
> american 50 cent party?
>
> +1  - this whole news group is a fucking Joke. Fakes with multiple handles. 
>
>
>
I don't use multiple handles on this list. If I'm joking I make it
pretty fucking clear ... and I didn't hijack this thread as the troll
quoted claims.

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 24 21:16:51 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 21:16:51 -0800
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <1453697652.3066.3.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
 <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol> <56A24EAD.2080709@riseup.net>
 <1453697652.3066.3.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <56A5AFC3.4020608@riseup.net>

Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On Fri, 2016-01-22 at 07:45 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
>> Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>>> I get that you think this FOIA request was a waste of time. However, I
>>> disagree completely, and I think we do have a right to know who came up
>>> with this rather creepy logo. It is definitely an eye-opener to me that
>>> "A little sinister!!" wasn't enough to discourage the final "OK" on it.
>>> Honestly, this logo should never have made it out into the world; I
>>> think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been
>>> developed and all copies of the existing one shredded, overwritten with
>>> zeros, degaussed, etc as appropriate.
>>>
>> You forgot to extract your tongue from cheek.
> Perhaps my phrasing sucked... let me rephrase:
>
> The least the people behind this program could have done, was not waste
> further taxpayer money on a logo which was described as "A little
> sinister!!!" from one the people in charge of approving it. Honestly, as
> issued, I consider the logo disgraceful and un-American. The only silver
> lining to this cloud is that we have some transparency regarding its
> approval, which admittedly is not much of a silver lining.
>
It was this part:

>  I think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been developed....


The world would be a better place if there wasn't an NRO to be designing
ANY patches for...

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 16:26:58 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 21:26:58 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1866694.CBmBrSBzAC@lapuntu>
 <56a5169b.53138c0a.3753e.0426@mx.google.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>



	Ok rysiek, I'm not sure when/if I'm going to reply to all your
	evasive bullshit. What I'm certainly going to do is use one of
	your 'tricks'.


	Tell me rysiek. How does your government or any government
	operate. 

	What happens to people who don't obey your government. Show
	some decency and intellectual honesty and give a concise,
	honest answer. 


	




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 16:45:42 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 21:45:42 -0300
Subject: America: *owned*
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29vKedKYTmRvPLGuU1x6GOYvCLjaz1Akx+eQzfdjkuzFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29vKedKYTmRvPLGuU1x6GOYvCLjaz1Akx+eQzfdjkuzFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a57080.4fe38c0a.3b1ef.21d6@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:24:27 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://theintercept.com/2014/12/17/billion-dollar-surveillance-blimp-launch-maryland/
> http://tinypic.com/r/r7j7rl/9

	
	building a rocket to take that thing down should be easy
	especially in a place with a sophisticated industry like the US
	(yes, the only good thing about the US is engineering)




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sun Jan 24 20:54:12 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 22:54:12 -0600
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <56A24EAD.2080709@riseup.net>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
 <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol> <56A24EAD.2080709@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1453697652.3066.3.camel@moonpatrol>

On Fri, 2016-01-22 at 07:45 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
> Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> > I get that you think this FOIA request was a waste of time. However, I
> > disagree completely, and I think we do have a right to know who came up
> > with this rather creepy logo. It is definitely an eye-opener to me that
> > "A little sinister!!" wasn't enough to discourage the final "OK" on it.
> > Honestly, this logo should never have made it out into the world; I
> > think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been
> > developed and all copies of the existing one shredded, overwritten with
> > zeros, degaussed, etc as appropriate.
> >
> 
> You forgot to extract your tongue from cheek.

Perhaps my phrasing sucked... let me rephrase:

The least the people behind this program could have done, was not waste
further taxpayer money on a logo which was described as "A little
sinister!!!" from one the people in charge of approving it. Honestly, as
issued, I consider the logo disgraceful and un-American. The only silver
lining to this cloud is that we have some transparency regarding its
approval, which admittedly is not much of a silver lining.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 18:15:42 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:15:42 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
Message-ID: <56a58598.c74e370a.b9d51.2840@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 01:30:32 +0000
Jerzy Łogiewa <jerzyma at interia.eu> wrote:


> horrible :( i think you try to make this group not useful, full of
> shit

	So you think that discussing the nature of the political
	system you live in is not useful?

	What kind of 'useful' topics you think we should be allowed to
	discuss?


J.


> 
> grarpamp:
> > http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/1321243/senior-homeland-security-official-says-internet-anonymity-should-be-outlawed
> > A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
> > anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car
> > without a license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a
> > car on a highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate,"
> > Erik Barnett, an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and
> > Customs Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the
> > Department of Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's
> > identifiers are ignored most of the time by law enforcement. Law
> > enforcement will use the identifiers, though, to determine the
> > driver's identity if the car is involved in a legal infraction or
> > otherwise becomes a matter of public interest. Similarly, should
> > not every individual be required to display a 'license plate' on
> > the digital super-highway?"
> > 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 24 18:22:53 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:22:53 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <22289F81-D976-40D4-9363-5A2BADF596D9@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>
 <22289F81-D976-40D4-9363-5A2BADF596D9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a58748.88ff8c0a.3cb10.2b10@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 18:11:56 -0800
Greg Moss <gmoss82 at gmail.com> wrote:

> <this thread is hijack before even start! juan and rayzer working for
> american 50 cent party?
> 
> +1  - this whole news group is a fucking Joke.

	this is a mailing list.

> Fakes with multiple handles. 

	such as? 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 24 15:25:49 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:25:49 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a5169b.53138c0a.3753e.0426@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <1866694.CBmBrSBzAC@lapuntu> <56a5169b.53138c0a.3753e.0426@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 24 stycznia 2016 15:22:09 juan pisze:
> > I did not say a single word about victims. But hey, let's play:
>       (...)
> 	As far as I'm concerned the discussion is about the highly
> 	stupid and misleading comment made by CIA capo mafioso dan geer
> 	regarding the 'private sector'. A high ranking capo of the CIA
> 	mafia is 'kindly' 'warning' 'us' about the dangers of the
> 	'private sector'. Please.

Does the source of the warning make the warning less relevant?

Do you see no potential problems/dangers in private sector having such huge 
databases of who was moving where, when?

>	(...)
> 	"It's cute how some think that power only corrupts and brings
> 	out evil in people if it happens to have a form of a government
> 	agency; and conversely, that no good can ever come from a
> 	government agency."
> 
> 	I am well aware that the government psychos can do some 'good'
> 	with all the resources they steal.

Ah, so we established that *sometimes* the outcome of government action can be 
good. Cool.

> 	A government can invade and destroy a country and then give
> 	some free candy to the surviving orphans. That's really
> 	touching. The overall outcome of government intervention is of
> 	course a disaster.

Fair enough. Let's work with that. Does that mean that orphans should not take 
the government's candy? Does that mean that orphans that *do* take that candy 
are "sellouts" and are to be ostracized or considered akin to government 
agents?

> 	But even if some government plan 'looks good' on some bullshit
> 	utiltiarian terms, imposing the plan by force is just ordinary
> 	crime on an industrial scale.

Again, fair enough. Never been a fan of "imposing a plan by force".

> > if a mafia outlet kills a member of this very mafia outlet (due to some
> > internal business), does that make that (dead) mafioso a victim?
> 
> 	Perhaps. Maybe he wanted to quit and found out that not even
> 	the mafia is a 'voluntary' organization...

So we have a mafioso that became a *victim* of the very mafia he was a 
(voluntary) member of. Cool.

> > If so, does that suddenly make the mafioso a "non-voluntary" mafioso?
> 
> 	Maybe. Or maybe they quarrelled over the spoils. So?

Okay, let me be more specific. Imagine if you will a situation, in which the 
mafioso in question does not *know* that the mafia gave out orders to kill 
him. There was no clear beef between him and the mafia, but some external 
circumstances cause the capos to decide that this guy has to go.

So the mafioso in question does not *know* that he is going to be killed.

And let's assume he has been killed while he was sleeping. So that he had no 
chance of realising what's going on.

My question is: does the sheer fact of being killed by the organisation the 
mafioso was a *voluntary* member of, without him knowing that he's going to be 
killed, change his "membership status" from voluntary to non-voluntary? :)

> 	Why is this important to political theory? How does it affect
> 	the analysis of the criminal nature of the state?

We're trying to establish what does it mean to be a "voluntary organisation", 
and if all victims by definition are not voluntary. You seem to put a lot on 
that, so I am trying to understand how you use those words.

> > Also, I would say that Wikipedia became a "victim" of Internet Watch
> > Foundation's Internet censorship. I am perfectly happy to agree that
> > Wikipedia was not a "voluntary" victim of it.
> 
> 	That's good because "voluntary victim" doesn't make much sense
> 	except maybe as some kind of poetic license.

Cool, so we agreed that Wikipedia is an "involuntary victim" of a civil 
society organisation. Wonderful!

> > However, does that make IWF suddenly not a civil society organisation?
> 
> 	Formally they may look like part of 'civil society' (that is,
> 	non-governmental) but their aims are typical of government.

A-ha! Aims! So we arrive at the dreaded "No True Scotsman". :)

> 	But I think there's some mutual misunderstanding caused
> 	by different definitions of 'civil society'...

So, what's *your* definition* of "civil society", then?

> > Or, perhaps, we can actually have civil society organisations that
> > (sadly) show signs of being corrupted by the power (over *something*)?
> 
> 	If the organizations we are talking about have coercive aims

WorldWide Fund and Greenpeace seem to have "coercive aims", as in: they are 
trying to influence decisions of other people in a certain way. Sometimes even 
using intimidation.

Yet many would agree that these are civil society organisations. So:
 - could you define "coercive aims"? 
 - are Greenpeace and WWF civil society organisations, or not?

> 	I wouldn't consider them part of 'civil society' but rather part
> 	of 'militant society'.

Interesting. Could you define "militant society" and perhaps draw the line 
between the two?

> 	Also I wouldn't say that this IWF thing was corrupted by power,
> 	if that means that they started as not-corrupt. IWF is a
> 	corrupt from day zero, by design. Exactly like all government.

Okay, still needing a definition of "civil society", "coercive aims" and 
"militant society".

> > > > Are you saying no voluntary organisations can ever be or become
> > > > criminal?
> > > 	
> > > 	A voluntary organization can stop being voluntary. At that
> > > 	point it's not voluntary anymore. It's becomes a state or
> > > 	state-like organization attacking people.
> > > 	
> > > 	Shouldn't be too hard to understand eh?
> > 
> > Well, at what point a voluntary organisation stops being voluntary?
> > When they commit their first crime?
> 
> 	It stops being voluntary when it starts coercing people...

Like Greenpeace and WWF?

> > I am confused about your usage of the word "voluntary" here. Are you not
> > actually looking for "non-criminal"?
> 
> 	In this case voluntary and non-crimal point to the same idea.

Okay. So why use two words for it?

Also, does that make the Internet Watch Foundation "criminal"?

> 	Sorry if you don't like my terminology. I think it's fine but
> 	you can change it if you want...As long as you retain my
> 	meaning...?

How can I retain your meaning, if I do not understand it? Well, apart from the 
"shitbag" part, of course.

> > > > Also, I never "equated civil society with mafia/government"
> > > 	
> > > 	Dude, your whole quote and post are there. You listed mafia
> > > 
> > > and civil society in the same sentece. If your writing is sloppy
> > > 
> > > 	it's not my fault.
> > 
> > If that's your standard for "equating", then I have to ask... Why are
> > you equating civil society to mafia? After all, you just "listed
> > civil society and mafia in the same sentence".
> > 
> > Here it is again, for your distinct viewing pleasure:
> > > You listed mafia and civil society in the same sentece.
> 
> 	Ok, ok. Part of the problem is that our definitions of 'civil
> 	society' differ.

Thank goodness we were able to get to that conclusion. Eventually.

> > > 	Begs the question, what kind of power do they have and how
> > > 
> > > they got it?
> > 
> > That's actually a valid point. Your default answer will be "Teh
> > Gubmint", and in the particular case of IWF, you'd actually be right.
> 
> 	Thanks...So looks like this particular example doesn't help
> 	your case, it helps mine =P

Well, it actually highlighted the definition problem. So, how do you define:
 - civil society
 - militant society
 - coercive aims

> > Thing is, does that mean that we have:
> >  - a civil society organisation
> >  - that *you agree* has been to some extent corrupted by power they
> > 
> > got?
> > 
> > It's a "yes/no" question.
> 
> 	That's not how I would describe it. It's an organization with
> 	coercive aims and more or less obvious ties to
> 	government/anti-sex puritan theocrats.
> 
> 	I don't think the IWF are libertarian voluntarists...

Wait, does your definition of "civil society" *require* an organisation to be 
a "libertarian voluntarist" one? And what would that mean?

> > > > Might I offer an example:
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Watch_Foundation#Blacklist_of_w
> > > > eb_p
> > > > ages
> > > 	
> > > 	What do you think those idiots stand for? They look like a
> > > 	typical right winger puritan assholes to me.
> > 
> > And yet they are a civil society organisation. My point stands:
> > *even* civil society can be corrupted by power. Do you not agree?
> 
> 	There's some misunderstanding because I'm using 'civil
> 	society' as a synonym for free society or a society based on
> 	voluntarist principles.

So basically you make up your own meaning of words/phrases and call people 
names because they use it in a different way, without first explaining your 
way of using these terms? Uh-huh.

> 	As opposed to government which operates on the principle of obey or
> 	die.
> 
> 	if on the other hand, by civil society you mean anything that
> 	isn't explicitly and officially part of the government, then
> 	yes, IWF is an example of a corrupt (or criminal-like)
> 	'civil' organization.
> 
> 	Then again, I never said that the private sector is free from
> 	corruption.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere! So we can have private companies that are 
corrupt?

Can they be corrupt without government's help?

> 	You might have caught some of my rants against the
> 	baknking mafia, or the google mafia, or the pharmaceutical
> 	mafia, or...

I try to avoid most of your rants, to be honest.

> 	What I consider a laughable and sick insult is that a high
> 	ranking government mafioso like geer has the cheek to pretend
> 	that the private sector is a bigger threat than his employeers,
> 	the C.I.A.

I don't see where he said it's a "bigger" threat. He just points out that it 
is a threat that needs recognition.

> > > > /me now waits, eating popcorn, for the inevitable No True Scotsman

Well, that one was fast. :)

> > > 	Sure. That coming from such a master of state logic like
> > >   you. As in, power bad, but government good.
> > 
> > Governments are not good in and of themselves.
> 
> 	Of course they are  not good 'in and of themselves'. And they
> 	are not morally neutral either. In and of themselves,
> 	governments are bad, despite their good deeds propaganda.

Why just governments? What makes Teh Gummint so different from mafia on one 
hand, and a huge multinational corporation with their own armed security force 
and/or an effective way of coercing governments to do their bidding on the 
other?

> 	Bottom line : crime can't be 'justified' (that is,
> 	proven to stick to justice principles)
> 
> > But seeing
> > *everything* that a government touches as
> > evil/bad/criminal/your-word-here is akin to seeing everything that
> > contains mercury
> 
> 	I already  pointed out that gov't can do some 'good things',
> 	paid by all the resources they steal.

Fine.

> 	But your 'argument' can only work if you put words in my mouth.
> 
> > (the element) as toxic. If that doesn't ring a bell,
> > let me help you with that:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy
> > 
> > So basically, yes, I am now calling your anti-Tor bullshit akin to
> > the anti- vaccine crowd bullshit
> 
> 	Oh fine. That wasn't the topic of this discussion at all.

No it wasn't. But then, it was in a way. :)

> 	But since you mention it, you can't counter anything I say
> 	about tor and you never did =)

Before we dive into this rabbit hole, do I understand correctly that above you 
just agreed that:

1. in and of itself the fact that a project (say, Tor) takes government money, 
does not *automagically* mean that the project is corrupt/coercive/in bed/etc?

2. that it is *possible* that such a project (not necessarily Tor; some 
hypothetical project) can have good outcome *despite* taking money from the 
government?

> 	"open source" therefore "magically great" doesn't count.

Because Juan Says So.

> > Power bad always, needs to be checked, *regardless* of whether or not
> > it (power) happens to be in the hands of a government, mafia, private
> > sector, civil society, or pixies and unicorns.
> 
> 	Fine. Sort of...

Elaborate on the "sort of" please, as I'm afraid I'm gonna be called a 
"shitbag" soon enough if you don't.

> > Problem is, there are many, many different power structures.
> > Governments are one kind of these. But there are many more, and they
> > emerge on their own, all the time. Looking *only* on governments (and
> > mafia) and missing the broader picture is just plain silly.
> 
> 	Not at all. Government is by far the worst problem.

But you do agree it is not the *only* problem?

> 	Focusing on things that are not as bad as government while constantly
> 	denying the criminal nature of government is...government
> 	propaganda.

What about focusing on things that are not as bad as the government, but *not* 
denying that government is a big problem?

> 	And is exactly what you are doing here as far as I
> 	can tell.

Apparently.

> > Still, sometimes I would love to have your simple "gummint bad,
> > private sector good, remove gummint and the free market will cure
> > cancer" view of the world. One can dream...
> 
> 	That isn't exactly my view. Part of my view is that the
> 	government has to go because of *moral* reasons, not for
> 	utilitarian reasons.  Of course there are good utilitarian
> 	arguments too that statists can't counter, but I personally
> 	don't much care about them.

What, in your view, would happen once Teh Gummint is gone, then?

Also, it's cute how you divide the world into statists and yourself. :)

> 	Let me try this...Do you think encryption systems should be
> 	backdored by the US government, or perhaps the 'united
> 	nations'?

Absofuckinglutely not.

> 	Or should encryption systems be as unbreakable as possible, in
> 	practice making it impossible for government to enforce 'laws'?

Now now, let's not bundle two distinct things. Nice try, but no bone.

I do hold that encryption systems should be as unbreakable as possible, or 
perhaps even more.

And at the same time I hold strongly (and have data to back it up) that this 
will not seriously hinder governments' ability to "enforce laws".

That's exactly why I call LEA's "argument" of "we need backdoors because 
HURDURRISTS" bullshit. No, no they don't. They have more than ample resources 
and means to do whatever it is they're doing without breaking encryption.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 24 15:30:25 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 00:30:25 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A54740.6080104@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A39F1C.6000801@riseup.net> <56A54740.6080104@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <2421887.hO3f7JQuUt@lapuntu>

Yo,

Dnia niedziela, 24 stycznia 2016 16:50:56 Steve Kinney pisze:
> On 01/23/2016 10:41 AM, Rayzer wrote:
> > rysiek wrote:
> >> It's cute how some think that power only corrupts and brings
> >> out evil in people if it happens to have a form of a
> >> government agency; and conversely, that no good can ever come
> >> from a government agency.
> >> 
> >> Power corrupts whenever people have unchecked power. Wether
> >> or not it is private sector, mafia, government, or civil
> >> society, if it has enough power, it *will* corrupt people.
> 
> "It is demonstrable that power structures tend to attract people
> who want power for the sake of power and that a significant
> proportion of such people are imbalanced - in a word, insane."

Absolutely.

> "Absolute power does not corrupt absolutely, absolute power
> attracts the corruptible." - Frank Herbert

Can't those two effects work together and at the same time? I would say 
everybody is corruptible, depends on the particular flavour of corruption. 
Some are corrupted by money, some by power, some by "I am doing the lord's 
work, so I will disregard everybody else", some by sex drugs and alcohol.

And every person in power will get more chances to get their "hit", whatever 
that might be, than a person without that power.

> Our Mr. Herbert was deep into ecology - including what the think
> tank boys and PsyOps shops call 'human ecology.'
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert#Ideas_and_themes
> 
> 
> ===================================
> 
> Recommended reading:
> 
> ===================================

Thanks, looks delicious!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From jerzyma at interia.eu  Sun Jan 24 17:30:32 2016
From: jerzyma at interia.eu (=?UTF-8?Q?Jerzy_=c5=81ogiewa?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 01:30:32 +0000
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu>

this thread is hijack before even start! juan and rayzer working for
american 50 cent party?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/10/china%E2%80%99s-paid-trolls-meet-50-cent-party

horrible :( i think you try to make this group not useful, full of shit

grarpamp:
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/01/20/1321243/senior-homeland-security-official-says-internet-anonymity-should-be-outlawed
> A senior Homeland Security official recently argued that Internet
> anonymity should outlawed in the same way that driving a car without a
> license plate is against the law. "When a person drives a car on a
> highway, he or she agrees to display a license plate," Erik Barnett,
> an assistant deputy director at U.S. Immigration and Customs
> Enforcement and attache to the European Union at the Department of
> Homeland Security, wrote. "The license plate's identifiers are ignored
> most of the time by law enforcement. Law enforcement will use the
> identifiers, though, to determine the driver's identity if the car is
> involved in a legal infraction or otherwise becomes a matter of public
> interest. Similarly, should not every individual be required to
> display a 'license plate' on the digital super-highway?"
> 




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Jan 25 07:50:03 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:50:03 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A5E73B.5020501@interia.eu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu> <56a58598.c74e370a.b9d51.2840@mx.google.com>
 <56A5E73B.5020501@interia.eu>
Message-ID: <56A6442B.5020701@riseup.net>

Jerzy Łogiewa wrote:
> what I try to say is, appears two men attack each other for 50 messages.
> every message is short and only attack. maybe you are fake or not but
> point is: this sucks for everyone else, the list becomes pure garbage pile.
>
> two ideas:
>
> 1, make longer and more detail arguments. consider reader.
> 2, avoid personal attack. if not for respect to other man then respect
> other reader that have made offended you (yet)
>
> if who is anarchist and who is not is important to you, ok, but i ask
> you please "take it outside."
>
> if any mods here, agree?
>
> sorry for my english.
>
> juan:
>> 	So you think that discussing the nature of the political
>> 	system you live in is not useful?
>>
>> 	What kind of 'useful' topics you think we should be allowed to
>> 	discuss?

Jerzy, I believe this list is un-moderated.

The thread became a discussion of 'whose the badder anarchist'.

When you see something like:

> juan wrote:
>> A bunch of assholes who sell colored water don't have any power unlike the fucking psychos who claim a monopoly on 'justice'. Same psychos you gallantly support. 

and it garners a reply like:

> DUDE! You've LOST it!
>

You're looking at streetcorner conversation that would normally lead to
someone getting their 'i dotted', but this is the intertubz, so people
will spew and no one gets hurt.

I can only imagine it leads to less workplace shootings at coding shops,
so no whining...

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From jerzyma at interia.eu  Mon Jan 25 01:13:31 2016
From: jerzyma at interia.eu (=?UTF-8?Q?Jerzy_=c5=81ogiewa?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 09:13:31 +0000
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a58598.c74e370a.b9d51.2840@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A57AB8.1010007@interia.eu> <56a58598.c74e370a.b9d51.2840@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A5E73B.5020501@interia.eu>

what I try to say is, appears two men attack each other for 50 messages.
every message is short and only attack. maybe you are fake or not but
point is: this sucks for everyone else, the list becomes pure garbage pile.

two ideas:

1, make longer and more detail arguments. consider reader.
2, avoid personal attack. if not for respect to other man then respect
other reader that have made offended you (yet)

if who is anarchist and who is not is important to you, ok, but i ask
you please "take it outside."

if any mods here, agree?

sorry for my english.

juan:
> 	So you think that discussing the nature of the political
> 	system you live in is not useful?
> 
> 	What kind of 'useful' topics you think we should be allowed to
> 	discuss?




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Mon Jan 25 08:53:54 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:53:54 -0600
Subject: FOIA: National Reconnaissance Office NROL-39 Octopus Mission Patch
In-Reply-To: <56A5AFC3.4020608@riseup.net>
References: <56A1A247.2000801@riseup.net>
 <56a1c0d6.715b8c0a.6e9b1.ffffa07b@mx.google.com>
 <1453442085.10917.2.camel@moonpatrol> <56A24EAD.2080709@riseup.net>
 <1453697652.3066.3.camel@moonpatrol> <56A5AFC3.4020608@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1453740834.7589.2.camel@moonpatrol>

On Sun, 2016-01-24 at 21:16 -0800, Rayzer wrote:
> It was this part:
> 
> >  I think the world would be a better place if an alternative logo had been developed....
> 
> 
> The world would be a better place if there wasn't an NRO to be designing
> ANY patches for...

Agreed, not exactly my best choice of words. However, if they are going
to figuratively suck off the USA, it is a really bad idea to make the
logo a giant squid literally giving the country a blow job, and spend
taxpayer money on that logo to boot...

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From gmoss82 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 18:08:34 2016
From: gmoss82 at gmail.com (Greg Moss)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 18:08:34 -0800
Subject: America: *owned*
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29vKedKYTmRvPLGuU1x6GOYvCLjaz1Akx+eQzfdjkuzFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29vKedKYTmRvPLGuU1x6GOYvCLjaz1Akx+eQzfdjkuzFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALA4K1RxTG_Yn1ocXocs5+Kdn39dH_S=-N_0-noc3fOmuKcN3w@mail.gmail.com>

That thing is "awesome". Gummint has all sorts of cool devices like it to
keep us Americunts safe!
On Jan 24, 2016 11:30 AM, "grarpamp" <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> https://theintercept.com/2014/12/17/billion-dollar-surveillance-blimp-launch-maryland/
> http://tinypic.com/r/r7j7rl/9
>
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Jan 25 10:56:16 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:56:16 +0100
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu> <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 24 stycznia 2016 21:26:58 juan pisze:
> 	Ok rysiek, I'm not sure when/if I'm going to reply to all your
> 	evasive bullshit.

Well, would you call "evasive bullshit" a situation where somebody does not 
reply to simple yes/no questions without a good reason? :)

> 	What I'm certainly going to do is use one of
> 	your 'tricks'.

What tricks? I am trying to ask precise questions to understand your point of 
view.

> 	Tell me rysiek. How does your government or any government
> 	operate.
> 
> 	What happens to people who don't obey your government. Show
> 	some decency and intellectual honesty and give a concise,
> 	honest answer.

They get fined, jailed, or (worst case scenario) killed. Your point?


While you ponder this, here are some questions that I have asked you in the 
previous e-mail, for your consideration:


(regarding private companies getting licence plate data)

Do you see no potential problems/dangers in private sector having such huge 
databases of who was moving where, when?


(regarding governments doing bad shit and then giving the orphans candy)

Does that mean that orphans should not take the government's candy?

Does that mean that orphans that *do* take that candy are "sellouts" and are 
to be ostracized or considered akin to government agents?


(regarding mafioso being killed by mafia he's a member of)

My question is: does the sheer fact of being killed by the organisation the 
mafioso was a *voluntary* member of, without him knowing that he's going to be 
killed, change his "membership status" from voluntary to non-voluntary?


(regarding civil society)

So, what's *your* definition* of "civil society", then?


(regarding Greenpeace and WWF)

 - could you define "coercive aims"? 
 - are Greenpeace and WWF civil society organisations, or not?


(regarding "militant society" as opposed to "civil society")

Could you define "militant society" and perhaps draw the line 
between the two?


(regarding the definition of "civil society")

Wait, does your definition of "civil society" *require* an organisation to be 
a "libertarian voluntarist" one? And what would that mean?


(regarding possibility of corrupt private companies)

So we can have private companies that are corrupt?

Can they be corrupt without government's help?


(regarding governments being "bad")

Why just governments? What makes Teh Gummint so different from mafia on one 
hand, and a huge multinational corporation with their own armed security force 
and/or an effective way of coercing governments to do their bidding on the 
other?


(regarding projects taking government money)

Before we dive into this rabbit hole, do I understand correctly that above you 
just agreed that:

1. in and of itself the fact that a project (say, Tor) takes government money, 
does not *automagically* mean that the project is corrupt/coercive/in bed/etc?

2. that it is *possible* that such a project (not necessarily Tor; some 
hypothetical project) can have good outcome *despite* taking money from the 
government?


(regarding "power always bad, needs to be checked, regardless of who has it)

> Fine. Sort of...

Elaborate on the "sort of" please.


(regarding the government being the "by far worst problem)

But you do agree it is not the *only* problem?


(regarding government propaganda)

What about focusing on things that are not as bad as the government, but *not* 
denying that government is a big problem?


(regarding "government has to go")

What, in your view, would happen once Teh Gummint is gone, then?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 25 19:47:05 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:47:05 -0500
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28kEGOOKf_BJYLK69CxO=ZH5OEcm-n_Mb1VL7s4gtj3eQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Jan 25 16:33:50 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:33:50 +0000
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi cp-ers,

On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general at postgresql.org ,
they are discussing a Code of Conduct.

A reference and discussion came up around contributor-covenant.org and
it seems many (allegedly 1000's of "open source projects" have
"adopted" it, and there appears to quite the campaign to "encourage"
the PostgreSQL project to likewise adopt that particular agreement.

The pgsql old hands appear to have rejected it. This is a rare thing
AFAICT. There are a few issues raised about the so-called "contributor
covenant" which have very clearly, and repeatedly, not been responded
to, and this has been pointed out, more than once.

Those who chaperone one or more "open source" project mailing lists
may wish to bring themselves up to speed with this so-called
"covenant" before the steamroller hits your group/ list/ community,
since it seems inevitable at this point.

Being riveted and enraptured by concepts of "enforcement",
"protection" of "the marginalized peoples" and as y'all know, my
raving crusade to further promote "political correctness", I figured I
should go and read this "covenant" to find out what all the fuss might
be about and add some scare quotes at appropriate places.

So I went and read it.

It simply, abso-firetruckingly, demands a response, and beyond what
appears to have currently been tippy toe on eggshells burped out so
far.

Here is my first draft to respond to it, I encourage others to refine
my oh-so-subtle analysis, but most importantly to bring yourself up to
speed with the PC-speak which might freight train into one or more of
your "open source" worlds in the relatively near future; informed
ahead of time may be enough to be armed against long and actually
divisive email discussions, as internet searching sadly tells.

The below is my second woeful attempt to bring some sanity to that
"covenant". It needs your improvements.

Good luck,
Zenaan

----
http://contributor-covenant.org/

>> Contributor Covenant
>> A Code of Conduct for Open Source Projects.

Sounds reasonable.


>> Open Source has always been a foundation of the Internet, and with the advent
>> of social open source networks this is more true than ever.

Let's hope free libre and open source software - FLOSS, stays as the foundation
of the Internet!

"social open source networks" - what?? Facebook social network??

Use of new terminology, without explaining that terminology, and
presuming it is known and well understood terminology, in a document
you are pushing as a new and additional "social contract" which others
are pressed upon to adopt and enforce, is IMHO passive aggressive.


>> But free, libre, and open source projects suffer from a startling lack of
>> diversity, with dramatically low participation by women, people of color, and
>> other marginalized populations.

Those who have an interest in promoting, assisting, sponsoring and generally
facilitating "the diversity" within this particular libre software
project or mailing list,
are welcome to do so and in general, ought be supported to the extent that their
actions and words are neither actively nor passively aggressive towards any
member of this mailing list, and are actually supportive of the
technical goals of
this project.


>> Part of this problem

Lack of diversity may be viewed as a problem.

Such a viewpoint is a personal, individual matter. Your personal, individual
opinion on this matter may be discussed, but in general is off topic for this
mailing list.

Speaking or writing that "lack of diversity is a problem", and even moreso,
building the presumption into the words of a so-called "social covenant", where
that presumption is almost hidden and "not up for debate", is a passive
aggressive approach to communication with others who may or may not
disagree with this position.

Passive aggressive communication is not welcome on this mailing list.


>> lies with the very structure of some projects:

What is "the very structure of a project"? This phrase is too generic, and not
explained, despite the next part of that sentence which follows below, which
appears to pretend to answer (or define) the phrase - it does not.

Phrases and terminologies used out of context and having indefinite and vague
meanings, is a sign of passive aggressive communication and all
members of this mailing list are encourage to ridicule such
communication.


>> the use of insensitive language, thoughtless use of pronouns, assumptions of
>> gender, and even sexualized or culturally insensitive names.

Although certain social niceties are encouraged on this mailing list, they are
not required and indeed firm, clear and precise languaging is valued and
encouraged.

If you are overly sensitive, or in need (or desire) of an emotionally sensitive
environment, then consider another mailing list - this mailing list is likely
not for you, and if you are in need of any professional help, you are encouraged
and indeed required to seek professional medical and or psychological advice
and or support.


>> Marginalized people also suffer some of the unintended consequences of
>> dogmatic insistence on meritocratic principles of governance.

There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have
learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive
environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or
psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of
technology discussed on this mailing list.

In all of these cases, this mailing list is not for you, and you will be
encouraged to leave if we discover that any of these conditions apply to you.

Take note, we heartily welcome the opportunity to joust against your best
attempts to otherwise deceive us in regards to such conditions applying to you,
although in general in such cases, please expect derision and ridicule for
wasting our time in such circumstances.


>> Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy often
>> result in greater inequality.

This is a baseless assertion. Provide the references or go away. Such
an unsupported, unreferenced and 'plastic' attempt to dominate our
community into conforming, acting and behaving according to your
standards is unwelcome in the extreme, and grounds for the ridicule of
you.

In any case, this mailing list is for those who have a minimum intermediate
skill and understanding in the programming languages and technologies for
which it has been established, and is explicitly not for those who are overly
sensitive and need an emotionally supportive environment - we might have
a laugh, and it may be at your expense, so if you can't laugh at yourself,
this mailing list is definitely not for you.


>> People with "merit" are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces
>> based on the value of their technical contributions.

You may join this mailing list, but by doing so you agree to speak clearly and
assertively if you feel offended, or otherwise to respectfully leave the mailing
list, as it is unmoderated and uncensored, although discussion is generally
sought to be on topic, and for offtopic digressions to be kept short and taken
offlist or to an alternate list if they persist.

Additionally, your consideration that this mailing list is a public
space, is only partially correct. This mailing list is a list which is
open to conditional membership, and the list administrator reserves
the right to ban you temporarily and or permanently at any time, but
with prior notice and opportunity for discussion given on this mailing
list.

Take Notice further that the discussions had by members of this
mailing list are archived publicly, so to this extent the list may be
considered public, whilst it is strictly a members only mailing list
who choose to have certain public discussions, which may include
attempting to ridicule -you-, so obtain a temporary membership to this
email mailing list only after very careful consideration by you. If
you are at all unsure of your suitability to our list, we are happy to
help you decide by analysing your proposed introduction email of
yourself.


>> Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field, in which everyone has
>> access to the same resources, free time, and common life experiences to draw
>> upon.

The sentence above is another passive-aggressive, presumption filled projected
assertion.

Such communication has no place on this mailing list, except as the target of
naming the presumptions, highlighting the passive aggressive nature and
generally tearing it to shreads and providing an opportunity for the
mailing list members to laugh like hyenas.

- >> "Meritocracy naively assumes"

Meritocracy does no such thing - it is not a person.

- >> "Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field,"

Meritocracy does no such thing - in fact it is the opposite - meritocracy is a
socio political agreement, contract  and or requirement that participants in the
system shall be judged based on their technical merit and or
performance. In our case, slow performance is entirely acceptable, you
are under no requirement nor expectation to make contributions
according to any schedule, only on your own free time and personal
pleasure.

Making any assertion to the contrary is passive aggressive,
manipulative, and shall be joyously and most light heartedly
attacked in words.

- >> "in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time,"

No such assumptions are made on this mailing list, and quite the contrary
- if you have very little free time for example, or a slow computer, then we
will certainly expect that your contributions may be few and far between
as compared with someone who has loads of free time or a faster computer
than you.

If you are experiencing free time and resources problems, then this list is
DEFINITELY not the place for you - you are explicitly instructed to seek
professional time management advice as well as professional financial
counselling. DO NOT bring such personal problems to this mailing list, as they
will be used as instant grounds for removal and for barring from the
list, although more likely simply as grounds for ridicule and laughing
like hyenas.

- >> "and common life experiences to draw upon."

Once again, "meritocracy" (to the extent we can personify a socio political
system), and "we" the members of this mailing list in particular, make no such
assumptions whatsoever, and we more importantly, put no such requirements upon
you.

So sleep tight, it's all alright, we won't hold your differing life
experiences against you, in fact we may be intrigued, but if a
particular experience you share starts to cause an extended off topic
discussion, take notice that we reserve the right to calmly let you
know this so that we can get back to the topics intended for this
mailing list.

This list may be a platform, but at most only for those robust enough
to hold their own on the topic they make a post about.

If you join this mailing list, you are strongly encouraged to communicate your
personal concerns and problems, needs and requirements at the earliest stage
possible, preferably in in your introduction email with a well
identified subject
line.

Then we will be able to readily assess whether this mailing list is
suitable for you or whether you need to find another, more appropriate
environment in which to express yourself and or to find a "contribution
space" which is suitable for your needs.

If you are unsure, then you are welcome to introduce yourself in this way,
and we will respectfully assess your suitability to the mailing list as best
we can.

Take notice that we are not professionals in any field, indeed we are
amateurs that might be in your personal medical or other interests to
NOT associate with, and that if you require any professional advice,
medical or otherwise, then you are required to seek such advice from
suitably certificated professionals in your area - we on this mailing
list cannot help you in such circumstances and if you fail to inform
us of any such problems and or issues you may have that you consider
we would otherwise be responsible for, then you may be in breech of
the legislation in your jurisdiction - deceive the members of this
mailing list at your own legal liability.

On this mailing list, robust communication is a prime valued
contribution - if you are actively wanting to improve your emotional
robustness, this mailing list could possibly be a suitable place for
you - feel free to ask us about this specifically in relation to you.


>> These factors and more make contributing to open
>> source a daunting prospect for many people,

If your emotional strength, your social and or communication capacity, and or
your psychological needs are an issue in any way, you are not welcome on this
mailing list and we require you to seek professional medical advice.


>> especially women and other underrepresented people. (For more critical
>> analysis of meritocracy, refer to this entry on the Geek Feminism wiki.)

If you have any trigger words, emotional weaknesses and or sensitivities which
may cause you to have any reaction whatsoever, you are required to inform the
members of this mailing list in an introduction email if you do join the list,
and if you are required to do so, you must seek professional medical and or
psychological advice and support - this mailing list is most likely an
inappropriate place for you to join, and we continue to encourage ourselves
to not hold back in reminding you this.


>> A Small Step Forward
>> An easy way to begin addressing this problem

You may have some problem, and this mailing list not the place for you to fix
your problem. Only technical matters related to the technical topic of this
mailing list are appropriate problems for fixing in discussions on this
mailing list.

Seek professional advice when you need it, including professional
advice regarding the technical topic of this mailing list if that is what you
require - this mailing list is for non professionals with at least moderate
technical competence, all members are volunteers, all members participate at
their own discretion and with no obligations upon them and with no obligations
whatsoever to you, including courtesy which is valued, but not
required - enter at your own risk.


>> is to be overt in our openness, welcoming all people to contribute, and
>> pledging in return to value them as human beings and to foster an atmosphere
>> of kindness, cooperation, and understanding.

This we agree with - we, the members of this mailing list, proclaim our
intention to welcome all people to contribute, and to value each member as a
human being. We encourage each other to foster an atmosphere of kindness,
cooperation and understanding, and robustness in communication -
passive aggressive communication, despite the best intentions of the
one making such passive aggressive communication, has no place in our
community.

And take notice - persistent bad behaviour, 'bad' by the assessment of
the members alone and discussed publicly on this mailing list, shall
be cause for temporary and or permanent banning from this mailing
list.


>> The Contributor Covenant can be one way to express these values. Pledge your
>> respect and appreciation for contributors and participants in your open
>> source project by adding an explicit CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md to your project
>> repository.

Respect, kindness and cooperation are good things, but this
"http://contributor-covenant.org/" "contributor covenant" to which we hereby
respond, is in no way or shape getting into our project's repository without
this our response.


>> The Contributor Covenant uses semantic versioning for revisions so all URLs
>> are permanent. Previous versions are available here: 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2

>> Using the Contributor Covenant

>> We recommend that you add the Markdown or text version of the Contributor
>> Covenant to your source code repository at the root level.

>> Thanks to Simon Vansintjan there is an automated way to add Contributor
>> Covenant to your project. Assuming that you have node installed, simply run
>> the following two commands from your project folder:

>>     npm install -g covgen
>>     covgen your_email_address

>> You may want to add language similar to this to introduce your code of conduct:

>>     Please note that this project is released with a Contributor Code of
>>     Conduct. By participating in this project you agree to abide by its
>>     terms.

>> You may also use the permalinks given above to reference from your project
>> home page.

>> Important! You must add a contact method to the placeholder in the document
>> so that people know how to report violations.  Enforcing the Contributor
>> Covenant

This above paragraph does not quite feel right. If the members of this mailing
list are so anti-social that genuine "social problems" cannot be resolved on the
mailing list itself, then this "community" of members is quite likely beyond
repair without substantial work by robust individuals with a passion to heal the
community - if you are not such an individual, then you best leave that job to
comeone who is, and take yourself to a kinder, gentler happy place.


>> Do not simply add the Contributor Covenant to your project and assume that
>> any problems with civility, harassment, or discrimination will be solved. As
>> a project maintainer you must be committed to enforcing the code of conduct.

There may be a time and place for banning members from this mailing list,
temporarily and or permanently, but such discussions shall continue to be
public, on the mailing list itself and open to discussion and
contribution by all members. No duty is incumbent upon any member,
including the "project maintainer" - if the community can't work out
its problems, it is unfair to place such a burden upon such a one
individual.


>> A code of conduct without enforcement sends a false signal that your project
>> is welcoming and inclusive, and can create a dangerous situation for
>> marginalized people who participate.

"Marginalized people" who are not competent to contribute on some
technical level (which includes documentation writing, testing as well
as programming), are not welcome - we the members of this mailing list
are volunteers and, on this particular mailing list, are not willing
to tutor those who have special needs - do not join the mailing list
in such circumstances, there are other, appropriate forums, mailing
lists and learning institutions which you ought apply to.

Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes
those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social
environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive
aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to
you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing
list - we shall roast you in words, with glee!


>> Adding the Contributor Covenant to a project places responsibility on the
>> project team that must not be taken lightly.

Since the archives of this mailing list are public, should you have even the
smallest concern regarding your own robustness in public communication, then you
are invited to browse those archives and make an assessment as to whether you
are a suitable candidate to join this mailing list. If you do decide to join,
you are required to make your first email an introduction, which introduction
includes a reference to your assessment of the archives as well as any needs you
feel that the members of this list ought be able to meet.


>> Before adopting the Contributor Covenant take the time to discuss and decide
>> how to deal with problems as they emerge. Document the policy and procedure

Oh, we've taken the time, and "problems as they emerge" shall be
handled publicly, on this mailing list! To the extent we the members
of this maliing list consider you a problem, passive aggressive or
otherwise, we WILL handle you, publicly, with the one caveat that all
members are in general expected to show respectful consideration in
respect of all private or "off-list" communications.

If you are uncomfortable with this policy, you are encouraged to find a more
suitable community to join.


>> for enforcement, and add it to your README or in another visible, appropriate
>> place. Consider if your project team has the willingness and maturity to
>> follow through on your enforcement procedures.

A "community" that requires any significant policing, particularly
clandestine policing, has lost its way - the tyranny of the majority
is not the healthiest way, in the opinion of some members - speak
clearly, speak the truth, and seek a fair response; if you don't
receive a fair response, another community might be much less work for
you, even if it provides less opportunities for emotional growth for
you.




From moritz at headstrong.de  Mon Jan 25 16:55:29 2016
From: moritz at headstrong.de (mo)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 01:55:29 +0100
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A6C401.3070109@headstrong.de>

On Codes on Conduct
Allan MacGregor 1 day ago

https://medium.com/@allanmacgregor/on-codes-on-conduct-37f3247b5e49

Recently, there has been a lot of controversy and discussion surrounding
the adoption of a code of conduct for the PHP project; there has been
endless back and forth between proponents and opponents of the motion.
I’ve debated if I should publish my opinions on the subject or simply
remain quite and hope for the best; however as emails from the internals
list continued to flood my inbox, I found it harder and harder to just
sit idly silent.

The following article(s) are heavily opinionated and there is a very
good chance that you will disagree with my position and my arguments,
the topic by is very nature is extremely contentious and of a sensitive
nature. However, they say that disagreement fosters communication and
the exchange of ideas; and I’m hoping that is true in this case. With
that said, let’s jump into the topic at hand and start talking about
code of conduct.

[...]

Unfortunately, as most things in the real world it is not as simple as
it sounds and we need to at least be aware of the consequences, side
effects, and political baggage documents like a code of conduct can have.

Let’s start by taking a closer look to the Code of Conduct original
proposed for the PHP project:

contributor-covenant.org

[...]

If we are truly talking about creating a welcoming and open community,
then we need to listen and address the concerns of detractors as much as
we do for the proponents of the CoC; after all, the goal is equality and
fairness; is it not?

Even without accounting for this scenario, getting banned from
contribution under the accusation of misconduct could cause problems in
the real world and their work; you could get you banned from
conferences, affect publishing deals, in short, it could royally mess up
with your career.

As it stands, the current proposal for the Code of Conduct has hit an
impasse; the more the discussion seems to go on, the more it seems that
the proposal is attempting to setup a mini-judicial system; and speaking
candidly, the PHP community is not capable of pulling this off.

[...]




From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 04:03:28 2016
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 04:03:28 -0800
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=iK-z3R=wNVdx3Uw1vtMJGHGGru2zC8Q=RLnix9GFocSnQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure there's a good joke in here, about the temperament of those folks
who desire to force their CoC down the throats of the many who do not want
it.  Alas I'm not clever enough to come up with quite the right wording.


On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> Hi cp-ers,
>
> On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general at postgresql.org ,
> they are discussing a Code of Conduct.
>
> A reference and discussion came up around contributor-covenant.org and
> it seems many (allegedly 1000's of "open source projects" have
> "adopted" it, and there appears to quite the campaign to "encourage"
> the PostgreSQL project to likewise adopt that particular agreement.
>
> The pgsql old hands appear to have rejected it. This is a rare thing
> AFAICT. There are a few issues raised about the so-called "contributor
> covenant" which have very clearly, and repeatedly, not been responded
> to, and this has been pointed out, more than once.
>
> Those who chaperone one or more "open source" project mailing lists
> may wish to bring themselves up to speed with this so-called
> "covenant" before the steamroller hits your group/ list/ community,
> since it seems inevitable at this point.
>
> Being riveted and enraptured by concepts of "enforcement",
> "protection" of "the marginalized peoples" and as y'all know, my
> raving crusade to further promote "political correctness", I figured I
> should go and read this "covenant" to find out what all the fuss might
> be about and add some scare quotes at appropriate places.
>
> So I went and read it.
>
> It simply, abso-firetruckingly, demands a response, and beyond what
> appears to have currently been tippy toe on eggshells burped out so
> far.
>
> Here is my first draft to respond to it, I encourage others to refine
> my oh-so-subtle analysis, but most importantly to bring yourself up to
> speed with the PC-speak which might freight train into one or more of
> your "open source" worlds in the relatively near future; informed
> ahead of time may be enough to be armed against long and actually
> divisive email discussions, as internet searching sadly tells.
>
> The below is my second woeful attempt to bring some sanity to that
> "covenant". It needs your improvements.
>
> Good luck,
> Zenaan
>
> ----
> http://contributor-covenant.org/
>
> >> Contributor Covenant
> >> A Code of Conduct for Open Source Projects.
>
> Sounds reasonable.
>
>
> >> Open Source has always been a foundation of the Internet, and with the
> advent
> >> of social open source networks this is more true than ever.
>
> Let's hope free libre and open source software - FLOSS, stays as the
> foundation
> of the Internet!
>
> "social open source networks" - what?? Facebook social network??
>
> Use of new terminology, without explaining that terminology, and
> presuming it is known and well understood terminology, in a document
> you are pushing as a new and additional "social contract" which others
> are pressed upon to adopt and enforce, is IMHO passive aggressive.
>
>
> >> But free, libre, and open source projects suffer from a startling lack
> of
> >> diversity, with dramatically low participation by women, people of
> color, and
> >> other marginalized populations.
>
> Those who have an interest in promoting, assisting, sponsoring and
> generally
> facilitating "the diversity" within this particular libre software
> project or mailing list,
> are welcome to do so and in general, ought be supported to the extent that
> their
> actions and words are neither actively nor passively aggressive towards any
> member of this mailing list, and are actually supportive of the
> technical goals of
> this project.
>
>
> >> Part of this problem
>
> Lack of diversity may be viewed as a problem.
>
> Such a viewpoint is a personal, individual matter. Your personal,
> individual
> opinion on this matter may be discussed, but in general is off topic for
> this
> mailing list.
>
> Speaking or writing that "lack of diversity is a problem", and even moreso,
> building the presumption into the words of a so-called "social covenant",
> where
> that presumption is almost hidden and "not up for debate", is a passive
> aggressive approach to communication with others who may or may not
> disagree with this position.
>
> Passive aggressive communication is not welcome on this mailing list.
>
>
> >> lies with the very structure of some projects:
>
> What is "the very structure of a project"? This phrase is too generic, and
> not
> explained, despite the next part of that sentence which follows below,
> which
> appears to pretend to answer (or define) the phrase - it does not.
>
> Phrases and terminologies used out of context and having indefinite and
> vague
> meanings, is a sign of passive aggressive communication and all
> members of this mailing list are encourage to ridicule such
> communication.
>
>
> >> the use of insensitive language, thoughtless use of pronouns,
> assumptions of
> >> gender, and even sexualized or culturally insensitive names.
>
> Although certain social niceties are encouraged on this mailing list, they
> are
> not required and indeed firm, clear and precise languaging is valued and
> encouraged.
>
> If you are overly sensitive, or in need (or desire) of an emotionally
> sensitive
> environment, then consider another mailing list - this mailing list is
> likely
> not for you, and if you are in need of any professional help, you are
> encouraged
> and indeed required to seek professional medical and or psychological
> advice
> and or support.
>
>
> >> Marginalized people also suffer some of the unintended consequences of
> >> dogmatic insistence on meritocratic principles of governance.
>
> There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have
> learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally
> sensitive
> environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or
> psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of
> technology discussed on this mailing list.
>
> In all of these cases, this mailing list is not for you, and you will be
> encouraged to leave if we discover that any of these conditions apply to
> you.
>
> Take note, we heartily welcome the opportunity to joust against your best
> attempts to otherwise deceive us in regards to such conditions applying to
> you,
> although in general in such cases, please expect derision and ridicule for
> wasting our time in such circumstances.
>
>
> >> Studies have shown that organizational cultures that value meritocracy
> often
> >> result in greater inequality.
>
> This is a baseless assertion. Provide the references or go away. Such
> an unsupported, unreferenced and 'plastic' attempt to dominate our
> community into conforming, acting and behaving according to your
> standards is unwelcome in the extreme, and grounds for the ridicule of
> you.
>
> In any case, this mailing list is for those who have a minimum intermediate
> skill and understanding in the programming languages and technologies for
> which it has been established, and is explicitly not for those who are
> overly
> sensitive and need an emotionally supportive environment - we might have
> a laugh, and it may be at your expense, so if you can't laugh at yourself,
> this mailing list is definitely not for you.
>
>
> >> People with "merit" are often excused for their bad behavior in public
> spaces
> >> based on the value of their technical contributions.
>
> You may join this mailing list, but by doing so you agree to speak clearly
> and
> assertively if you feel offended, or otherwise to respectfully leave the
> mailing
> list, as it is unmoderated and uncensored, although discussion is generally
> sought to be on topic, and for offtopic digressions to be kept short and
> taken
> offlist or to an alternate list if they persist.
>
> Additionally, your consideration that this mailing list is a public
> space, is only partially correct. This mailing list is a list which is
> open to conditional membership, and the list administrator reserves
> the right to ban you temporarily and or permanently at any time, but
> with prior notice and opportunity for discussion given on this mailing
> list.
>
> Take Notice further that the discussions had by members of this
> mailing list are archived publicly, so to this extent the list may be
> considered public, whilst it is strictly a members only mailing list
> who choose to have certain public discussions, which may include
> attempting to ridicule -you-, so obtain a temporary membership to this
> email mailing list only after very careful consideration by you. If
> you are at all unsure of your suitability to our list, we are happy to
> help you decide by analysing your proposed introduction email of
> yourself.
>
>
> >> Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field, in which
> everyone has
> >> access to the same resources, free time, and common life experiences to
> draw
> >> upon.
>
> The sentence above is another passive-aggressive, presumption filled
> projected
> assertion.
>
> Such communication has no place on this mailing list, except as the target
> of
> naming the presumptions, highlighting the passive aggressive nature and
> generally tearing it to shreads and providing an opportunity for the
> mailing list members to laugh like hyenas.
>
> - >> "Meritocracy naively assumes"
>
> Meritocracy does no such thing - it is not a person.
>
> - >> "Meritocracy also naively assumes a level playing field,"
>
> Meritocracy does no such thing - in fact it is the opposite - meritocracy
> is a
> socio political agreement, contract  and or requirement that participants
> in the
> system shall be judged based on their technical merit and or
> performance. In our case, slow performance is entirely acceptable, you
> are under no requirement nor expectation to make contributions
> according to any schedule, only on your own free time and personal
> pleasure.
>
> Making any assertion to the contrary is passive aggressive,
> manipulative, and shall be joyously and most light heartedly
> attacked in words.
>
> - >> "in which everyone has access to the same resources, free time,"
>
> No such assumptions are made on this mailing list, and quite the contrary
> - if you have very little free time for example, or a slow computer, then
> we
> will certainly expect that your contributions may be few and far between
> as compared with someone who has loads of free time or a faster computer
> than you.
>
> If you are experiencing free time and resources problems, then this list is
> DEFINITELY not the place for you - you are explicitly instructed to seek
> professional time management advice as well as professional financial
> counselling. DO NOT bring such personal problems to this mailing list, as
> they
> will be used as instant grounds for removal and for barring from the
> list, although more likely simply as grounds for ridicule and laughing
> like hyenas.
>
> - >> "and common life experiences to draw upon."
>
> Once again, "meritocracy" (to the extent we can personify a socio political
> system), and "we" the members of this mailing list in particular, make no
> such
> assumptions whatsoever, and we more importantly, put no such requirements
> upon
> you.
>
> So sleep tight, it's all alright, we won't hold your differing life
> experiences against you, in fact we may be intrigued, but if a
> particular experience you share starts to cause an extended off topic
> discussion, take notice that we reserve the right to calmly let you
> know this so that we can get back to the topics intended for this
> mailing list.
>
> This list may be a platform, but at most only for those robust enough
> to hold their own on the topic they make a post about.
>
> If you join this mailing list, you are strongly encouraged to communicate
> your
> personal concerns and problems, needs and requirements at the earliest
> stage
> possible, preferably in in your introduction email with a well
> identified subject
> line.
>
> Then we will be able to readily assess whether this mailing list is
> suitable for you or whether you need to find another, more appropriate
> environment in which to express yourself and or to find a "contribution
> space" which is suitable for your needs.
>
> If you are unsure, then you are welcome to introduce yourself in this way,
> and we will respectfully assess your suitability to the mailing list as
> best
> we can.
>
> Take notice that we are not professionals in any field, indeed we are
> amateurs that might be in your personal medical or other interests to
> NOT associate with, and that if you require any professional advice,
> medical or otherwise, then you are required to seek such advice from
> suitably certificated professionals in your area - we on this mailing
> list cannot help you in such circumstances and if you fail to inform
> us of any such problems and or issues you may have that you consider
> we would otherwise be responsible for, then you may be in breech of
> the legislation in your jurisdiction - deceive the members of this
> mailing list at your own legal liability.
>
> On this mailing list, robust communication is a prime valued
> contribution - if you are actively wanting to improve your emotional
> robustness, this mailing list could possibly be a suitable place for
> you - feel free to ask us about this specifically in relation to you.
>
>
> >> These factors and more make contributing to open
> >> source a daunting prospect for many people,
>
> If your emotional strength, your social and or communication capacity, and
> or
> your psychological needs are an issue in any way, you are not welcome on
> this
> mailing list and we require you to seek professional medical advice.
>
>
> >> especially women and other underrepresented people. (For more critical
> >> analysis of meritocracy, refer to this entry on the Geek Feminism wiki.)
>
> If you have any trigger words, emotional weaknesses and or sensitivities
> which
> may cause you to have any reaction whatsoever, you are required to inform
> the
> members of this mailing list in an introduction email if you do join the
> list,
> and if you are required to do so, you must seek professional medical and or
> psychological advice and support - this mailing list is most likely an
> inappropriate place for you to join, and we continue to encourage ourselves
> to not hold back in reminding you this.
>
>
> >> A Small Step Forward
> >> An easy way to begin addressing this problem
>
> You may have some problem, and this mailing list not the place for you to
> fix
> your problem. Only technical matters related to the technical topic of this
> mailing list are appropriate problems for fixing in discussions on this
> mailing list.
>
> Seek professional advice when you need it, including professional
> advice regarding the technical topic of this mailing list if that is what
> you
> require - this mailing list is for non professionals with at least moderate
> technical competence, all members are volunteers, all members participate
> at
> their own discretion and with no obligations upon them and with no
> obligations
> whatsoever to you, including courtesy which is valued, but not
> required - enter at your own risk.
>
>
> >> is to be overt in our openness, welcoming all people to contribute, and
> >> pledging in return to value them as human beings and to foster an
> atmosphere
> >> of kindness, cooperation, and understanding.
>
> This we agree with - we, the members of this mailing list, proclaim our
> intention to welcome all people to contribute, and to value each member as
> a
> human being. We encourage each other to foster an atmosphere of kindness,
> cooperation and understanding, and robustness in communication -
> passive aggressive communication, despite the best intentions of the
> one making such passive aggressive communication, has no place in our
> community.
>
> And take notice - persistent bad behaviour, 'bad' by the assessment of
> the members alone and discussed publicly on this mailing list, shall
> be cause for temporary and or permanent banning from this mailing
> list.
>
>
> >> The Contributor Covenant can be one way to express these values. Pledge
> your
> >> respect and appreciation for contributors and participants in your open
> >> source project by adding an explicit CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md to your project
> >> repository.
>
> Respect, kindness and cooperation are good things, but this
> "http://contributor-covenant.org/" "contributor covenant" to which we
> hereby
> respond, is in no way or shape getting into our project's repository
> without
> this our response.
>
>
> >> The Contributor Covenant uses semantic versioning for revisions so all
> URLs
> >> are permanent. Previous versions are available here: 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2
>
> >> Using the Contributor Covenant
>
> >> We recommend that you add the Markdown or text version of the
> Contributor
> >> Covenant to your source code repository at the root level.
>
> >> Thanks to Simon Vansintjan there is an automated way to add Contributor
> >> Covenant to your project. Assuming that you have node installed, simply
> run
> >> the following two commands from your project folder:
>
> >>     npm install -g covgen
> >>     covgen your_email_address
>
> >> You may want to add language similar to this to introduce your code of
> conduct:
>
> >>     Please note that this project is released with a Contributor Code of
> >>     Conduct. By participating in this project you agree to abide by its
> >>     terms.
>
> >> You may also use the permalinks given above to reference from your
> project
> >> home page.
>
> >> Important! You must add a contact method to the placeholder in the
> document
> >> so that people know how to report violations.  Enforcing the Contributor
> >> Covenant
>
> This above paragraph does not quite feel right. If the members of this
> mailing
> list are so anti-social that genuine "social problems" cannot be resolved
> on the
> mailing list itself, then this "community" of members is quite likely
> beyond
> repair without substantial work by robust individuals with a passion to
> heal the
> community - if you are not such an individual, then you best leave that
> job to
> comeone who is, and take yourself to a kinder, gentler happy place.
>
>
> >> Do not simply add the Contributor Covenant to your project and assume
> that
> >> any problems with civility, harassment, or discrimination will be
> solved. As
> >> a project maintainer you must be committed to enforcing the code of
> conduct.
>
> There may be a time and place for banning members from this mailing list,
> temporarily and or permanently, but such discussions shall continue to be
> public, on the mailing list itself and open to discussion and
> contribution by all members. No duty is incumbent upon any member,
> including the "project maintainer" - if the community can't work out
> its problems, it is unfair to place such a burden upon such a one
> individual.
>
>
> >> A code of conduct without enforcement sends a false signal that your
> project
> >> is welcoming and inclusive, and can create a dangerous situation for
> >> marginalized people who participate.
>
> "Marginalized people" who are not competent to contribute on some
> technical level (which includes documentation writing, testing as well
> as programming), are not welcome - we the members of this mailing list
> are volunteers and, on this particular mailing list, are not willing
> to tutor those who have special needs - do not join the mailing list
> in such circumstances, there are other, appropriate forums, mailing
> lists and learning institutions which you ought apply to.
>
> Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this
> includes
> those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social
> environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive
> aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply
> to
> you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this
> mailing
> list - we shall roast you in words, with glee!
>
>
> >> Adding the Contributor Covenant to a project places responsibility on
> the
> >> project team that must not be taken lightly.
>
> Since the archives of this mailing list are public, should you have even
> the
> smallest concern regarding your own robustness in public communication,
> then you
> are invited to browse those archives and make an assessment as to whether
> you
> are a suitable candidate to join this mailing list. If you do decide to
> join,
> you are required to make your first email an introduction, which
> introduction
> includes a reference to your assessment of the archives as well as any
> needs you
> feel that the members of this list ought be able to meet.
>
>
> >> Before adopting the Contributor Covenant take the time to discuss and
> decide
> >> how to deal with problems as they emerge. Document the policy and
> procedure
>
> Oh, we've taken the time, and "problems as they emerge" shall be
> handled publicly, on this mailing list! To the extent we the members
> of this maliing list consider you a problem, passive aggressive or
> otherwise, we WILL handle you, publicly, with the one caveat that all
> members are in general expected to show respectful consideration in
> respect of all private or "off-list" communications.
>
> If you are uncomfortable with this policy, you are encouraged to find a
> more
> suitable community to join.
>
>
> >> for enforcement, and add it to your README or in another visible,
> appropriate
> >> place. Consider if your project team has the willingness and maturity to
> >> follow through on your enforcement procedures.
>
> A "community" that requires any significant policing, particularly
> clandestine policing, has lost its way - the tyranny of the majority
> is not the healthiest way, in the opinion of some members - speak
> clearly, speak the truth, and seek a fair response; if you don't
> receive a fair response, another community might be much less work for
> you, even if it provides less opportunities for emotional growth for
> you.
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Jan 26 09:01:59 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 09:01:59 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu> <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
 <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56A7A687.1040709@riseup.net>

rysiek wrote a luv note to Juan:
> (regarding the definition of "civil society")
>
> Wait, does your definition of "civil society" *require* an organisation to be 
> a "libertarian voluntarist" one? And what would that mean?

If required it would mean you're 'outside' (and we're back to a hinting
of fascism...)

-- 
RR
"Freedom is the capacity to pause between stimulus and response." ~Rollo May


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From themikebest at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 09:34:41 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:34:41 -0500
Subject: Litvinenko docs pre-September 25 redaction and removal
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_9cymKcYg-yjZndKsVuyZJiS0c4-w7JU6U9oaUK19C3g@mail.gmail.com>

After September 25th, a number of documents from the Litvinenko inquiry
were redacted or removed from the official sites.

Any chance anyone grabbed any of them? I'm grabbing the ones from the
Wayback Machine, but a lot of those files are missing so I'm not sure how
many of the redacted/removed documents were saved this way.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Jan 26 03:40:27 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:40:27 +0200
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <56A6C401.3070109@headstrong.de>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6C401.3070109@headstrong.de>
Message-ID: <20160126114027.GA2438@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 01:55:29AM +0100, mo wrote:
> https://medium.com/@allanmacgregor/on-codes-on-conduct-37f3247b5e49
>

I suppose this list haven't signed any of these,
especially this nonsense:
===
    Examples of unacceptable behaviour by participants include:

    The use of sexualized language or imagery
    Personal attacks
    Trolling or insulting/derogatory comments
    Other unethical or unprofessional conduct
===

Shellshock and Heartbleed were very "professional" conduct,
have the implementors signed the agreements?




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Jan 26 14:09:58 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 14:09:58 -0800
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56a7c6f5.b2148c0a.31ee5.5548@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu> <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
 <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu> <56A7A687.1040709@riseup.net>
 <56a7c6f5.b2148c0a.31ee5.5548@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56A7EEB6.9070709@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> fascism is a variety of collectivism

Every society is a collective. Fascist societies maintain their
collective structure by emotional, psychological, and physically
destructive methods. In any legitimate anarchist collective society if
you don't fit somewhere, that's ok... You don't have to.

What Ben Morea of Up Against the Wall (Motherfuckers) said about the
Situationists and other anarchist cells for example:

> /In 1966 Black Mask magazine cited the Situationist International as a
> group moving in a similar direction to yourselves calling as they were
> for "the revolution of everyday life" and the abolition 'He may be a
> real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed
> obediance to white liberal doctrine of non-violence ... and embrace
> black nationalism' ... 'Through counter-intelligence it should be
> possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them,
> neutralize them, neutralize them'of art as a separate, specialized
> activity. However in late 1967 the SI expelled three of its British
> members for having supported "a certain Ben Morea, publisher of the
> bulletin Black Mask." What was the source of friction between the
> groups and to what extent were you ever linked?/
>
> Ben: The Situationists and I never saw eye to eye. I thought that they
> were extremely doctrinaire and limited. The Situationists seemed to
> excommunicate more people than they kept. There was never really any
> connection between our groups and theirs.

> Ben: A tremendous number of people came through New York and spent
> time with us around the time that The Family began. They included some
> UK Situationists who became the King Mob group, members of the
> Zenga-Kuren from Japan, Jean Jacques Leibel who was one of the leaders
> in the `68 uprising in Paris and also some Provos from Holland. All of
> these groups overlapped with our approach in one way or another...

https://libcom.org/history/against-wall-motherfucker-interview-ben-morea

You don't hear this sort of thing from intrinsically Fascist formations
on the left like the SWP or Revolutionary Workers Party, they're too
busy snitching each other off to the police or engaging in
informant/provocateur activities themselves.

-- 
RR
'Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'

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From ryacko at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 15:39:48 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:39:48 -0800
Subject: What you won't hear at Davos
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>

The elites at Davos like to talk about change and improving lives, but some
fly by helicopter from a private jet. They could have collectively
chartered a plane to Zurich, and then take a train to Davos. It does become
reminiscent in which Russia supports American democracy groups, and the US
supports Russian democracy groups... democracy has become a buzzword for
elites to reduce the autonomy of other elites.

In 1793, it took less then a year for Napoleon to raise an army of a
million men.

In WWII, it took America several years to build up it's fighting strength
to a level capable of fighting the Nazis.

Perhaps today, if we were to start a military from scratch, it will take
fifteen years to do it (probably longer if you desire aircraft).

The point I'm making is indirect, there is a lot of inertia today brought
on by the complexity of technology. The decisions made today once fully
implemented cannot be changed for a while.

The elites have made wrong decisions, they have erred in the direction of
mass surveillance instead of mass liberty, but it did not stop the success
of terrorists. Now we are all less secure. Apparently Juniper routers were
backdoored... some of which were used by US agencies. One seems to hear
more about the OPM hack then the Obamacare website being totally insecure.
Government IT policies and organizations have been totally inadequate for a
long time. The GCHQ wants MIKEY-SAKKE, as opposed to MIKEY-DH, they don't
just want to intercept and decrypt future communications, they want to
decrypt past communications ( as if that has been a major obstacle to
investigations prior to the computer).

But I ramble, to be very clear, to make the internet itself secure, it will
probably take ten years. While frequent derisions that people don't use
encrypted databases are nonsensical, the solutions more likely to yield a
result will take longer to implement.

Basically ten years ago, all the elites made the wrong choice, and they
don't even have the excuse of saying they properly weighed the issues.
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 10:54:55 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:54:55 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu>
 <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
 <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56a7c145.8550370a.a5b2c.0678@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:56:16 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:


> 
> > 	Tell me rysiek. How does your government or any government
> > 	operate.
> > 
> > 	What happens to people who don't obey your government. Show
> > 	some decency and intellectual honesty and give a concise,
> > 	honest answer.
> 
> They get fined, jailed, or (worst case scenario) killed. Your point?

	That is exactly my point and you know it. That is the *theory*
	and *practice* of government. Now where do you, a statist and
	apologist of 'good' government stand with respect to the crimes
	that enable the very existence of your government?

	Further point : the theory of government is radically different
	from the theory of *voluntary interaction* and the 'free
	market' or 'civil society' if you prefer.

	In *theory and practice* the government is nothing but the
	bigest, sicket criminal organization.



> 
> 
> While you ponder this, here are some questions that I have asked you
> in the previous e-mail, for your consideration:
> 
> 
> (regarding private companies getting licence plate data)
> 
> Do you see no potential problems/dangers 


	Yes I do. 

	Then again, I never said the private sector is perfect. That's
	a position you pretentd that I hold because the only way
	for you  to 'win' the argument is by arguing against something
	I never said nor I would ever say.


> in private sector having
> such huge databases of who was moving where, when?
> 
> 
> (regarding governments doing bad shit and then giving the orphans
> candy)
> 
> Does that mean that orphans should not take the government's candy?
> 
> Does that mean that orphans that *do* take that candy are "sellouts"
> and are to be ostracized or considered akin to government agents?


	The orphans do have a legitimate claim against your government
	psychos. 

	But *victims* of government claiming restitution have nothing to
	do with *government employees* pretending to 'fight' government
	from the inside. Like your beloved tor mafiosos for instance.
	Those assholes certainly are pentagon sellouts and state agents
	(by defintion - they are paid by the state).



> 
> 
> (regarding mafioso being killed by mafia he's a member of)
> 
> My question is: does the sheer fact of being killed by the
> organisation the mafioso was a *voluntary* member of, without him
> knowing that he's going to be killed, change his "membership status"
> from voluntary to non-voluntary?


	That is irrelevant bullshit. And I already answered it anyway.
	At least partly because you keep chaging the 'scenario'.

	If you can clearly make whatever point you are trying to make,
	go ahead, make it, and I'll reply to it. I'm not wasting time
	with contrived 'edge cases'.
 

> 
> 
> (regarding civil society)
> 
> So, what's *your* definition* of "civil society", then?


	I already gave in a previous message. Now it's clear that you
	don't read my replies. 

	As to the rest of your 'questions' they are of course the same
	evasive bullshit as before. 

	You can keep playing dumb forever while accusing me of not
	explaining well the basics of anarchist theory. 

	Funny because you also pretend to be an expert on political
	theory PLUS, you are posting in a FUCKING CRYPTO ANARCHIST
	mailing list. 


> 
> 
> (regarding Greenpeace and WWF)
> 
>  - could you define "coercive aims"? 
>  - are Greenpeace and WWF civil society organisations, or not?
> 
> 
> (regarding "militant society" as opposed to "civil society")
> 
> Could you define "militant society" and perhaps draw the line 
> between the two?
> 
> 
> (regarding the definition of "civil society")
> 
> Wait, does your definition of "civil society" *require* an
> organisation to be a "libertarian voluntarist" one? And what would
> that mean?
> 
> 
> (regarding possibility of corrupt private companies)
> 
> So we can have private companies that are corrupt?
> 
> Can they be corrupt without government's help?
> 
> 
> (regarding governments being "bad")
> 
> Why just governments? What makes Teh Gummint so different from mafia
> on one hand, and a huge multinational corporation with their own
> armed security force and/or an effective way of coercing governments
> to do their bidding on the other?
> 
> 
> (regarding projects taking government money)
> 
> Before we dive into this rabbit hole, do I understand correctly that
> above you just agreed that:
> 
> 1. in and of itself the fact that a project (say, Tor) takes
> government money, does not *automagically* mean that the project is
> corrupt/coercive/in bed/etc?
> 
> 2. that it is *possible* that such a project (not necessarily Tor;
> some hypothetical project) can have good outcome *despite* taking
> money from the government?
> 
> 
> (regarding "power always bad, needs to be checked, regardless of who
> has it)
> 
> > Fine. Sort of...
> 
> Elaborate on the "sort of" please.
> 
> 
> (regarding the government being the "by far worst problem)
> 
> But you do agree it is not the *only* problem?
> 
> 
> (regarding government propaganda)
> 
> What about focusing on things that are not as bad as the government,
> but *not* denying that government is a big problem?
> 
> 
> (regarding "government has to go")
> 
> What, in your view, would happen once Teh Gummint is gone, then?
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 11:19:10 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 16:19:10 -0300
Subject: USA To Require Govt Issued ID To Use Internet, No More Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <56A7A687.1040709@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28M7T-f957PDRGJ_6EkvSGgMzUFtuw_4-zEagwvyoCF0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <2317895.4t2QpWVRm8@lapuntu>
 <56a56c1c.4e49370a.bb212.21ab@mx.google.com>
 <1519022.G6MZoRgsvv@lapuntu> <56A7A687.1040709@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <56a7c6f5.b2148c0a.31ee5.5548@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 09:01:59 -0800
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> rysiek wrote a luv note to Juan:
> > (regarding the definition of "civil society")
> >
> > Wait, does your definition of "civil society" *require* an
> > organisation to be a "libertarian voluntarist" one? And what would
> > that mean?
> 
> If required it would mean you're 'outside' (and we're back to a
> hinting of fascism...)
> 

	You are a self described collectivist, for fucks sake. And
	fascism is a variety of collectivism. 

	The 'nation', 'race', 'society', the 'workers' or whatever
	'collectives' you fancy, have absolute 'authority' over
	individuals.

	And it's not just that as a collectivist you are
	quite close to the 'fascism' you whine about. You've clearly
	shown that when people criticize crass state actions like the
	harrasment on people on roads, YOU SIDE WITH THE FUCKING STATE.

	Again, you are nothing but the typical social democrat
	pretending to be an anarcho-who-knows-what. Ah, yes! You are
	the true kind of anarchist. The DVM-Anarchist! You are as fake
	as the libertarians who vote for reagan and bush. 


	Granted at least you've argued against american wars in the
	middle east...














From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 13:09:07 2016
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:09:07 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Welcome to the Smoogs Demo
References: <4976c2cf744a22a25735e67581b21dc1a7d.20160126202153@mail62.suw11.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <5EFB0645-372B-4FE6-A2F3-51867732AB6B@gmail.com>



> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: smoogs.io <hello at smoogs.io>
> Subject: Welcome to the Smoogs Demo
> Date: January 26, 2016 at 4:21:59 PM AST
> To: R. <hettinga at gmail.com>
> Reply-To: smoogs.io <hello at smoogs.io>
> 
> January 2016 smoogs.io <http://smoogs.io/> | Our Demo is live!
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 14:12:28 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:12:28 -0500
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAN9H=iK-z3R=wNVdx3Uw1vtMJGHGGru2zC8Q=RLnix9GFocSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iK-z3R=wNVdx3Uw1vtMJGHGGru2zC8Q=RLnix9GFocSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29B8zLXPw_NWZkYobEE8xSPgBJ9E+Ba46XVOV3fgpZdAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 7:03 AM, Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta at gmail.com> wrote:
> Alas I'm not clever enough to come up with quite the right wording.

Somehow I wanna see the SJW's battle the S1W's ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnL35irZ9o




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 15:49:53 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 18:49:53 -0500
Subject: Network Analysis of Overlay Networks, Capabilities, Fill Traffic
 [was: VPN less safe?]
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti282j05aYnsFD5o6eMFCaA1Up4e1L89rJvLAOOTHi8xEzA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:09 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 10:25:20 -0500
> Paul Syverson <paul.syverson at nrl.navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
>> "20,000 In League Under the Sea: Anonymous Communication, Trust,
>> MLATs, and Undersea Cables" available at
>> http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/popets.2015.1.issue-1/popets-2015-0002/popets-2015-0002.xml?format=INT
>
>
>         As far as I can see, most if not all of the paper deals with a
>         way to organize information about 'network topology' but
>         there's no concrete data regarding which
>         systems/relays/cables/people/IXPs/ASs/whatever are
>         'compromised'.
>
>         ...though the section on cables and cooperation between so
>         called nation states seems to suggest that virtually all the
>         world's infrastructure is 'compromised'?

The USA and Soviets have decades experience tapping cables
around the globe in a cold war sense.
The USA/FVEY has top secret blackops and administrative via corp
partnership and various legal and extralegal access to extensive cable,
hardware, and organizational assets around the globe.
It is simply foolish to not assume that the world is highly
compromised by these actors.
Snowden and all the other surveillance and bigdata news and political
rhetoric have been telling you that for over a decade now.
You might be safe if you are in a locale untouchable by these actors,
conduct all your activities in that locale, and have no similar local
adversaries.

>         Also, is there a more concrete analysis of what can be
>         achieved by monitoring traffic on those cables?

Did you just push a bunch of packets over time into your ISP and
have google send replies back? Well, they can see both ends, so
they saw that traffic pattern in and out, and back in and out, so
they know who's talking to who and when.

> Specifically,
>         how easy it is for your government to find users and especially
>         servers in the tor network or similar networks (i2p, freenet
>         etc)

In addition to simple taps, they can also deploy passive or
active nodes in any of these networks at will. And use all
the tools to perturb things in favor of their efforts.

Tor and other networks are good at hiding endpoints (users, servers)
from each other, keeping traffic content encrypted over the wire, letting
you anonymously publish and consume stuff among other users that
isn't really of interest to (against) such adversaries (and thus won't get
you killed or jailed or disappeared (but will still get you databased
for life)),
and getting around some censorship. That's probably about it.

However when it comes to such global (and regionally lucky) passive
adversaries, and adversaries operating the networks themselves, I
seriously doubt anyone can say with a straight face that these
networks protect against network analysis... who is talking to
who and when.

It would be harder for that analysis to succeed against networks
that filled between all the nodes with fill traffic when unused and
not needed for user traffic. (And in the sense of Tor, between clients
and some number of guards). But that's hard to design so that it
is functional. And no one in the overlay network / messaging field
really seems to be trying it. Mindset, OMG bandwidth, probably
buzzkills most research before it gets started.

Here's some recent mostly tor specific threads if anyone's interested,
plus whatever else has come up whenever I've mentioned this.

https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2016-January/010257.html
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2016-January/010290.html


>         There's also mention of 'user beliefs' and 'trust'. That
>         strikes me as weird. You seem to be saying that routes
>         can be choosen according to users' beliefs, not according to
>         real world facts? It doesn't matter if system X is hostile,
>         what matters is what the user believes about system X?

Users often have better knowledge of the laws, operations and
general feel in their countries and locales and areas of expertise
than a handful of distant project maintainers largely based
in one geopolitical exposure might have. You can download
science, but you need more than that to win a street fight.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 16:15:56 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:15:56 -0500
Subject: What you won't hear at Davos
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_Cgo9=QnkB3MRDGjy1urg2AqNuSNSfhKsJx6EDWCjmQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> Basically [15+] years ago, all the elites made the wrong choice, and they
> don't even have the excuse of saying they properly weighed the issues.

Apparently wrong choices are often engineered solutions.
People know this, and choose to suffer under them as fact of life
rather than immediately reverting, preventing, or making better
choices from the start. They let life pile upon them until one day
all the choices are re-evaluated in furious wholesale glory, winner
take all. Humans will never learn, glory seeking is too addictive.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 26 10:17:44 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:17:44 +0100
Subject: Litvinenko docs pre-September 25 redaction and removal
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA0_9cymKcYg-yjZndKsVuyZJiS0c4-w7JU6U9oaUK19C3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA0_9cymKcYg-yjZndKsVuyZJiS0c4-w7JU6U9oaUK19C3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6683321.YO6FHzTJKI@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 26 stycznia 2016 12:34:41 Michael Best pisze:
> After September 25th, a number of documents from the Litvinenko inquiry
> were redacted or removed from the official sites.
> 
> Any chance anyone grabbed any of them? I'm grabbing the ones from the
> Wayback Machine, but a lot of those files are missing so I'm not sure how
> many of the redacted/removed documents were saved this way.

Interesting. Do you happen to have a list of redacted/deleted files?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 17:35:17 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:35:17 -0500
Subject: Darknets: Full of onions, and eeps, and other wondrous things
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_XjXRBbFDUpw00LRo5o85VQ_Uq16Pmzvt7NU=hwFoZCw@mail.gmail.com>

> Email to tor-talk@ [0] made me wonder if (some of) these
> are run by the same people that have been trying to hijack
> Bitcoin transactions.  In the first step, they could enumerate
> services by crawling them

That would be useful to get an early start in the spamming / seeding
publication below.

> and setting up an impersonation
> site that has substituted Bitcoin addresses on it.

There's no need to 'mirror' or 'clone' or 'set up a site', the good ones
are just transparent cleartext proxies, one onion in front of another.
They can be timed, but don't fall to the dynamic content and
update differences that mirrors do.

Regardless, the last step is publication of the proxy. This is done in
wholesale on onionland services such as forums and the now tens of
wannabe 'hidden wikis', many of which are run by the same actors,
obviously adding to the attack surface. Users surf them, they and the
links looks legit, they get bookmarked and that's that till they somehow
find out. It's been going on that way for years. All onionland services
should be considered suspect, even email, syndication and storage.

> Finally, they are
> running malicious exists that rewrite onion domains to their own
> impersonation sites.

Exit rewriting is an easy way to skim another fraction of users without
needing to play with forums and wikis.

As interesting as why, is that there are so many.

Those willing to immerse themselves in the corners of onionland would
probably find some insight, at least for that which comes from there.

Topside ventures that reach down into onions would be different story.

Databasing, crime, anti-crime, covert stuff, games, research, hacking,
and even the overriding majority of everyday legitimate use by users
around the globe....

The story and scaling over time of all these aspects is becoming quite
interesting.

> [0] <https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-January/040038.html>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 16:42:08 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 21:42:08 -0300
Subject: What you won't hear at Davos
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56a812ab.0b50370a.357d0.3701@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:39:48 -0800
Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:

> The elites have made wrong decisions, they have erred in the
> direction of mass surveillance instead of mass liberty,

	You might try thinking before speaking or writing? 

	Cats are doing it all wrong! Cats meow when they should be
	barking! Cats have erred in the direction of meowing!
	Unbelievable.


> but it did
> not stop the success of terrorists. 

	What terrorists.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Tue Jan 26 19:20:51 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 22:20:51 -0500
Subject: What you won't hear at Davos
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A83793.4050705@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/26/2016 06:39 PM, Ryan Carboni wrote:

> The elites at Davos like to talk about change and improving
> lives, but some fly by helicopter from a private jet. They
> could have collectively chartered a plane to Zurich, and then
> take a train to Davos. It does become reminiscent in which
> Russia supports American democracy groups, and the US supports
> Russian democracy groups... democracy has become a buzzword for
> elites to reduce the autonomy of other elites.

Quite so. "Democracy" was an early casualty of the Industrial
Revolution, which concentrated unprecedented wealth and power in
the hands of industrialists.  In the United States, the issue of
collective rule by land owners vs. collective rule by factory
owners was decided by the Civil War.  Today "democracy" normally
means "deniable subversion and control by a ruling oligarchy."

> In 1793, it took less then a year for Napoleon to raise an army
> of a million men.
> 
> In WWII, it took America several years to build up it's
> fighting strength to a level capable of fighting the Nazis.
> 
> Perhaps today, if we were to start a military from scratch, it
> will take fifteen years to do it (probably longer if you desire
> aircraft).
> 
> The point I'm making is indirect, there is a lot of inertia
> today brought on by the complexity of technology. The decisions
> made today once fully implemented cannot be changed for a
> while.

Not to mention future shock.  Big decisions made today, if they
can not be implemented by next Tuesday, are likely to be
implemented in a world where their relevance is limited at best -
if they can be implemented at all.  The future itself is
recognized as an adversary by those whose interests are best
served by maintaining established power structures.

> The elites have made wrong decisions, they have erred in the 
> direction of mass surveillance instead of mass liberty, but it
> did not stop the success of terrorists. Now we are all less
> secure.

Wait, what?  I would question the possibility that 'elites' can
make any decisions in the direction of mass liberty.  If an elite
class exists, its collective interest lies in increasing the
liberties available to the elite class, at the expense of everyone
else's liberties.

Ideally the lower classes should have the 'liberty' to choose
options from a menu presented to them by their betters.  This
softens the blow of a policy regime where "everything that is not
mandatory is prohibited."  Should one faction of an elite class
appear to advocate for 'popular liberty,' they are doing so in an
effort to shift market dynamics to favor their own enterprises, at
the expense of other elite factions that will oppose any such
nonsense.

> Apparently Juniper routers were backdoored... some of which
> were used by US agencies. One seems to hear more about the OPM
> hack then the Obamacare website being totally insecure.
> Government IT policies and organizations have been totally
> inadequate for a long time. The GCHQ wants MIKEY-SAKKE, as
> opposed to MIKEY-DH, they don't just want to intercept and
> decrypt future communications, they want to decrypt past
> communications ( as if that has been a major obstacle to 
> investigations prior to the computer).
> 
> But I ramble, to be very clear, to make the internet itself
> secure, it will probably take ten years. While frequent
> derisions that people don't use encrypted databases are
> nonsensical, the solutions more likely to yield a result will
> take longer to implement.
> 
> Basically ten years ago, all the elites made the wrong choice,
> and they don't even have the excuse of saying they properly
> weighed the issues.

Of course they weighed the issues.  Doing so enables an elite
class to use its power today, to remain an elite class tomorrow.
At the outset of the Internet's exponential growth, America's
captains of corporate industry contracted their strategic advisers
- - think tanks, intelligence services, market researchers,
propaganda shops - to determine what policies and practices would
best serve their interests in the emerging Information Age.

Informed by the openly published analyses and strategic plans of
social and political activists on the early Internet (i.e. the
WELL community's 'electronic democracy' advocates), these advisers
reported that the Internet would destabilize social and political
power structures in unprecedented ways, shifting power away from
the few toward the many - much as the printing press had in an
earlier age, but on a larger scale with more immediate, agile and
adaptive impact.

Proposed solutions included mitigating the worst impacts of the
Internet on established power by making it a surveillance
platform, with unprecedented scope and depth of penetration into
the everyday lives of whole populations.  This would facilitate
faster, more effective tactical, policy and propaganda responses
to the emergence of populist power centers on the network,
partially mitigating the Internet's undesirable impacts.  So,
along with a major shift toward authoritarian governance,
consolidated broadcast propaganda platforms and accelerated
redistribution of wealth (= power) upward in the social hierarchy,
a comprehensive State and corporate surveillance regimen was
facilitated by the "open" and inherently insecure nature of its
protocols and implementations.

Early 'netizens' understood the potential of the Internet as a
force multiplier for populist political actors, and they knew that
established power blocks with a common vested interest in the
status quo would fight back.  They redoubled their efforts to
develop, refine and propagate strategies and tactics for Internet
enabled populist political action.  Technologists sympathetic to
these efforts started developing practical countermeasures to
Internet surveillance and censorship, and the rest is Cypherpunk
history.

The meaning of "security" depends very much on context:  Whose
security, against what hostile actors?  Technologists with an
Anarchist, Libertarian or other populist political orientation
view "insecure" network protocols, software and hardware as
problems to be solved.  Political warfare assets employed by
military, law enforcement and corporate actors would call these
same features strategic and tactical assets, enabling them to
enhance the security of their employers against hostile and/or
destabilizing influences.

Occasionally, anti-security in the network infrastructure will
turn around and bite its authors in the ass - comprehensive
Chinese penetration of U.S. military contractors and the OMB
personnel records fiasco will probably stand as classic examples
for quite a while.  But occasional victories by one's adversaries
is a cost of doing business in any war, including information
warfare against one's own restive and unruly populace.  Lessons
are learned, tactics are adjusted, and the information warriors
move on to the next battle front.

We shall have a "more secure Internet" going forward.  But as long
as we do have a ruling class, we shall not have a "secure
Internet" except at the scale of darknet operations that, as their
name implies, are as secure against wide public participation as
they are against State and corporate surveillance.

I do hope the IETF and IT industries proves me at least partially
wrong, by implementing the objectives outlined in RFC 6973.  But I
believe nothing of this sort can be implemented until or unless
sufficient technical countermeasures to enable State and corporate
actors to proceed with mass surveillance and censorship as usual
are available.

Another security issue overshadows all of the above:  The role of
disinformation operations that attack the network's end users via
weaponized social psychology.  But that's a whole 'nother topic.

:o/



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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 19:55:39 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 22:55:39 -0500
Subject: What you won't hear at Davos
In-Reply-To: <56A83793.4050705@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAO7N=i0dVHzrdkFqJCp9ekwqc_c49wPGPq1sXG=Ba9aCFObyFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A83793.4050705@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-Otuz7gGiLwhF1X6qYKfD_AnMJhd6=LPDaZVqNOAhBWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 10:20 PM, Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> Today "democracy" normally
> means "deniable subversion and control by a ruling oligarchy."

Elections often elect candidates under some platform into office
where they are then free to do and make and vote internally upon
whatever they please as there is no direct ongoing oversight or
authorization over them except for some rare recall or crime
in egregious cases or political infight.

What places currently elect people to office who then have no
auth to do anything but manage single item issues voted unto
to them by the voters? ie: go build this road.

Sure eventually can go downhill too since people are lazy
and offload that onto them as well.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 26 20:29:54 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 23:29:54 -0500
Subject: Look ^^^up^^^ at your next intersection, vehicle surveillance abounds
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28e10b3pmf2BR59c19FiBzPJu9kusp3W69nEEQ-mqcwvQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/01/no-cost-license-plate-readers-are-turning-texas-police-mobile-debt-collectors-and

"No Cost" License Plate Readers Are Turning Texas Police into Mobile
Debt Collectors and Data Miners

Vigilant Solutions, one of the country’s largest brokers of vehicle
surveillance technology, is offering a hell of a deal to law
enforcement agencies in Texas: a whole suite of automated license
plate reader (ALPR) equipment and access to the company’s massive
databases and analytical tools—and it won’t cost the agency a dime.

Even though the technology is marketed as budget neutral, that doesn’t
mean no one has to pay. Instead, Texas police fund it by gouging
people who have outstanding court fines and handing Vigilant all of
the data they gather on drivers for nearly unlimited commercial use.

ALPR refers to high-speed camera networks that capture license plate
images, convert the plate numbers into machine-readable text, geotag
and time-stamp the information, and store it all in database systems.
EFF has long been concerned with this technology, because ALPRs
typically capture sensitive location information on all drivers—not
just criminal suspects—and, in aggregate, the information can reveal
personal information, such as where you go to church, what doctors you
visit, and where you sleep at night.

Vigilant is leveraging H.B. 121, a new Texas law passed in 2015 that
allows officers to install credit and debit card readers in their
patrol vehicles to take payment on the spot for unpaid court fines,
also known as capias warrants. When the law passed, Texas legislators
argued that not only would it help local government with their
budgets, it would also benefit the public and police. As the bill’s
sponsor, Rep. Allen Fletcher, wrote in his official statement of
intent: ...




From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 04:19:27 2016
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 04:19:27 -0800
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV+ghZmBfXTMBWRSXTkjV28rfCviFUH8Q7S0L8bj8dCSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iK-z3R=wNVdx3Uw1vtMJGHGGru2zC8Q=RLnix9GFocSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV+ghZmBfXTMBWRSXTkjV28rfCviFUH8Q7S0L8bj8dCSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=i+4wu3jXUu-=wznDYnQQK6XopSGFhDKJKcCCWtBC2UJkg@mail.gmail.com>

Honestly, I just don't want to contribute to any project that feels it
necessary to impose a fucking "code of conduct" on participants.  Really I
have better ways to spend my time.


On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> One persons code of conduct is another persons dicktator
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan 27 07:44:25 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:44:25 -0800
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQ3r7X778US8b9ZMKWrBSO1iazz_kKoeb-yDQLz2XkPbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
 <CAOsGNSQ3r7X778US8b9ZMKWrBSO1iazz_kKoeb-yDQLz2XkPbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56A8E5D9.40405@riseup.net>

Zenaan Harkness replies to: 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli wrote::
>> On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of
>> > conduct', or adhering to it.
> Come on ... surely you jest?!?

When Abbie Hoffman was asked about the nature of the Chicago 7, 6, 8, 10
'conspiracy' he replied:

> "Conspiracy? We can't even agree on lunch."

-- 
RR

"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them'


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From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Jan 27 05:41:13 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:41:13 -0500
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
Message-ID: <56A8C8F9.4070208@pilobilus.net>

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On 01/27/2016 06:17 AM, Peter Tonoli wrote:

> On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code
> of conduct', or adhering to it.

I haven't been around here long enough to dare presume to speak on
behalf of the cpunks list regs, but it was my impression that the
list does have a code of conduct.  I can't find my copy, but I
believe it reads "Fuck you, I do what I want."  Not sure of the
exact wording but it's something to that effect IIRC.

It seems to be working OK here so far.  Ain't broke, don't fix it.
 If you don't like it, go elsewhere; anarchy ain't for everybody.

In re FLOSS development and its social infrastructure:

In any healthy and productive engineering shop, physical or
virtual, outside observers who assume that a primate pecking order
defines and governs /all/ human social roles and behaviors may be
forgiven for seeing a "meritocracy" where none exists.  In a
healthy, productive engineering shop, anyone who contributes to
the practical objectives of the project is valued as a team member
and encouraged to continue doing so.  Those who are in a position
to make large and highly visible contributions may thereby become
"popular" but this does not confer authority on them, and is not
an obstacle to anyone else's contributions.

Of course there are dysfunctional engineering shops, commercial
and non-commercial.  Introducing policies requiring the
participants in a toxic work environment promise to play nice, and
promise to punish those who do not, would only compound existing
abuses of power by adding a fresh layer of passive aggressive
posturing and manipulation.







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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Jan 27 09:25:28 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:25:28 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [liberationtech] Geoblocking and Global Video Culture
Message-ID: <56A8FD88.9060807@riseup.net>

Online read. Download available with login via specific social mediaz or
(apparently free) account creation

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


Geoblocking and Global Video Culture
Edited by Ramon Lobato and James Meese

Theory on Demand #18
Published by the Institute of Network Cultures, Amsterdam, 2016

http://networkcultures.org/blog/publication/no-18-geoblocking-and-global-video-culture/

How do global audiences use streaming platforms like YouTube, Netflix and iPlayer? How does the experience of digital video change according to location? What strategies do people use to access out-of-region content? What are the commercial and governmental motivations behind geoblocking?

Geoblocking and Global Video Culture explores the cultural implications of access control and circumvention in an age of VPNs.  Featuring seventeen chapters from diverse critical positions and locations – including China, Iran, Malaysia, Turkey, Cuba, Brazil, USA, Sweden and Australia.


Contributors: Ramon Lobato, James Meese, Juan Llamas-Rodriguez, Cameran Ashraf, Marketa Trimble, Adam Rugg, Florian Hoof, Roland Burke, Jinying Li, Çiğdem Bozdağ, Chris Baumann, Aneta Podkalicka, Chris Baumann, Sandra Hanchard, Vanessa Mendes Moreira de Sa, Hadi Sohrabi, Fidel Alejandro Rodriguez, Evan Elkins.

Copy-editing: Leonieke van Dipten. Editorial support: Miriam Rasch. Cover Design: Katja van Stiphout. DTP: Leonieke van Dipten. EPUB development: Leonieke van Dipten. Infographics: Sandra Hanchard. Printer: Print on Demand. ISBN: 978-94-92302-03-8.

-- Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable on Google.
Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated:
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech.
Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing moderator
at companys at stanford.edu.

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From anarchie+cpunks at metaverse.org  Wed Jan 27 03:17:09 2016
From: anarchie+cpunks at metaverse.org (Peter Tonoli)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:17:09 +0000
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>

Hello,

Quoting Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>:

> Hi cp-ers,
>
> On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general at postgresql.org ,
> they are discussing a Code of Conduct.

Seems the Ruby language community are having the same discussion. This  
<http://rubinius.com/2016/01/26/the-problem-with-minaswan/> blog post  
summarises the authors argument nicely against these contracts.

I quite like the argument that 'disagreeing is not nice'; we have the  
threat that list members won't contribute to 'arguments' because  
there's the risk they may be seen as harassing or not being 'nice',  
when it should be accepted that respectful arguments are 'healthy' in  
a community.

On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of  
conduct', or adhering to it.

Peter.





From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Jan 27 03:49:45 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:49:45 +0000
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ3r7X778US8b9ZMKWrBSO1iazz_kKoeb-yDQLz2XkPbA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/27/16, Peter Tonoli <anarchie+cpunks at metaverse.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Quoting Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>:
>
>> Hi cp-ers,
>>
>> On the PostgreSQL database mailing list pgsql-general at postgresql.org ,
>> they are discussing a Code of Conduct.
>
> Seems the Ruby language community are having the same discussion. This
> <http://rubinius.com/2016/01/26/the-problem-with-minaswan/> blog post
> summarises the authors argument nicely against these contracts.

Thank you very much for the link - will read now.


> I quite like the argument that 'disagreeing is not nice'; we have the
> threat that list members won't contribute to 'arguments' because
> there's the risk they may be seen as harassing or not being 'nice',
> when it should be accepted that respectful arguments are 'healthy' in
> a community.

Argument healthy? Come now, everybody vilt agree with me now, surely
you must know zis!! Auto-philia is the only sanctioned sexuality on
cpers, and any infraction will incursion a long and penetrating
punishment! Any argument with this new responsibly restraint position
shall be referred to Juan the One, and Rayzer the Precise, with
moderation by Me ze Correct, for rezolution now ok


> On the other hand, I can't see Cypherpunks agreeing to a 'code of
> conduct', or adhering to it.

Come on ... surely you jest?!?

I wuz just about to propose we do like the Postgrs developers, create
a committee designated by the core cpers, with an initial proposed CoC
in line with the pg one, in about 3 months, and a final, to be
published in 3 major national US papers to ensure the public gets the
message. FEMA camp tickets, water boards and Pb shall be provided to
all in pursuit of the greater good, dispose of each as you wilt.




From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Jan 27 05:00:36 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:00:36 +0000
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <CAN9H=i+4wu3jXUu-=wznDYnQQK6XopSGFhDKJKcCCWtBC2UJkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iK-z3R=wNVdx3Uw1vtMJGHGGru2zC8Q=RLnix9GFocSnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV+ghZmBfXTMBWRSXTkjV28rfCviFUH8Q7S0L8bj8dCSA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=i+4wu3jXUu-=wznDYnQQK6XopSGFhDKJKcCCWtBC2UJkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRNBp+mOVwktPL_Fof+NhByTXFAKEsyjuzwLUwBNWyHPw@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm. So, you don't want imposed a fucking CoC on you? Hmmmm.

Dangerously non conformant, unwilling, and non-compliant. The verdict is given.

Submissively waving your red CoC flag is your only salvation. But on
this instance only - we have ways to make you comply, the CoC is very
unwilling to be ignored now.

Peeple, whot shall we do?! I think prior to firmly inserting ze CoC,
first we must praise mai el1te spelling.

Big, big, laugh!


On 1/27/16, Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta at gmail.com> wrote:
> Honestly, I just don't want to contribute to any project that feels it
> necessary to impose a fucking "code of conduct" on participants.  Really I
> have better ways to spend my time.
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> One persons code of conduct is another persons dicktator
>>




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 03:30:11 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:30:11 +0200
Subject: To understand what is in the elitist cookbook of the globalist
 psychopaths
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>

not a bad analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97Af1SrgjQ
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From tedks at riseup.net  Wed Jan 27 13:34:34 2016
From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:34:34 -0500
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <56A8C8F9.4070208@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
 <56A8C8F9.4070208@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <1453930474.10710.43.camel@riseup.net>

On Wed, 2016-01-27 at 08:41 -0500, Steve Kinney wrote:
> It seems to be working OK here so far. 

Have you seen this list in the last ~6 months or so? God, I can't even
remember how long it's been since cpunks was good. (inb4 cpunks was
never good)

Were you around when there was actual cypherpunk content instead of
right-wing drivel like this thread? Maybe take a look at the archives.

-- 
Sent from Ubuntu
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 15:08:27 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:08:27 -0500
Subject: Opening up Dugway Proving Grounds, the military's secretive
 biological weapon testing unit
Message-ID: <CANFTA09bDgiTZA_=oJvGQKT+zj2oQSZh0_Hk_uo3Sao9T=Sz6g@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2016/jan/27/look-inside-archives-dugway-proving-grounds-milita/

2,321 pages of report listings

GREAT FOIA fodder
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 15:38:25 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:38:25 -0500
Subject: FBI wants $1, 000 to release 31,
 250 pages on one of CIA's dirtiest officers.
Message-ID: <CANFTA0-U-w-d6H_8t=O+fnPaR6ZmReKN=-sSFppZA6Qxb8Yykg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/thomas-clines-federal-bureau-of-investigation-23157/

He was central to Iran-Contra, the Cuban operations, Pinochet's coup and
rise to power, the secret war in Laos, and EATSCO along with Ed Wilson -
though he made a deal to escape prosecution.
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 27 12:12:24 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 20:12:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Silk Ulbricht... Lawfare Over The Fourth
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29YcjYRpQz6d-eba-3MSoe2Ccbarr_0-3atY59N9-rJrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29YcjYRpQz6d-eba-3MSoe2Ccbarr_0-3atY59N9-rJrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265819500.1205828.1453925544746.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



 >From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
 >To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 11:19 PM
 >Subject: Silk Ulbricht... Lawfare Over The Fourth
   
>https://cryptome.org/2016/01/ulbricht-appeal-045.pdf

>For background, application to various, including surveillance...
>General Warrants, Writs Of Assistance, Particularity, ...

This is a very well-written legal brief.  It could, and should, overturn the entire case against Ulbricht.
Another interesting article, found by Google-searching 'Ulbricht search warrant':
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/feds-silk-road-hack-legal/


           Jim Bell


  
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:07:12 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:07:12 -0500
Subject: To understand what is in the elitist cookbook of the globalist
 psychopaths
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28OiKOR3AMkHamR63nC1FWB3mAFyynd0ngKgt8b_=857Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Александр <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:
> not a bad analysis:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97Af1SrgjQ

Posting this stuff on facebook pages full of sheep
might wake a few more sleepyheads up, everyone
here already had their coffee this morning.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:33:36 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:33:36 -0500
Subject: What you can hear at Davos... With RTL-SDR
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28dPwsyN3m1unoxCrC22nRAaw=gNTjv+ShhQ9RkNq8bEg@mail.gmail.com>

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/01/27/1654246/collecting-private-flight-data-on-the-world-economic-forum-attendees-with-rtl-sdr
http://qz.com/600590/we-brought-an-antenna-to-davos-to-track-private-air-travel-and-heres-what-we-found/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast
http://bit.do/RTL-SDR-and-GNU-Radio-with-Realtek-RTL2832U

Every year politicians and business men meet at the World Economic
Forum in the small mountain town of Davos, Switzerland to discuss
various topics and create business deals. This year Quartz, an online
newspaper/magazine sent a journalist to the forum tasked with writing
a unconventional story about the forum: he was asked to monitor the
private helicopter traffic coming in and out of Davos from transponder
broadcast of ADS-B data. Using an $20 RTL-SDR dongle, Raspberry Pi and
ADS-B collinear antenna they monitored the flights over Davos. From
the data they were able to determine the flight paths that many
helicopters took, the types of helicopters used and the most popular
flight times.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 27 22:36:07 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:36:07 -0500
Subject: NYSE... Got Root?
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28+pe9kbsC7kJCaRBpfLhHXffy=K+DKcvAowqC_FXj-2Q@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-26/high-speed-firms-now-oversee-almost-all-stocks-at-nyse-floor
Barclays, one of the biggest banking and financial services firms in
the world, has sold its business on the floor of the New York Stock
Exchange to Global Trading Systems. This is significant because it
marks a transition between human-based trading and high-speed trading.
Now, humans on the NYSE floor have more of a supervisory role, making
sure the automated systems don't go haywire. Barclays has been around
for hundreds of years; GTS was founded in 2006. "There used to be
dozens of specialist firms, as designated market makers were once
known, at the NYSE floor. But profits from trading U.S. stocks
dwindled, making it difficult to serve as market makers without
automation. Although GTS, Virtu, IMC and KCG employ human traders at
the floor, their businesses are driven by some of the industry's most
sophisticated computer systems."




From konstantin at digithinkit.com  Thu Jan 28 01:39:49 2016
From: konstantin at digithinkit.com (Konstantin Kowaiski)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 04:39:49 -0500
Subject: To understand what is in the elitist cookbook of the globalist
 psychopaths
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCgiEC=BkzGu82mStJtvu+6ZY17cCg+2iEgNTCRp0i7Jne1fg@mail.gmail.com>

What's wrong with global order? She mentioned it shrinks down middle class
but it's shrinking only in US and majority of world population is rising
out of poverty.

I noticed you have Cyrillic name, so I would like to mention the main
problem with Russian economy. It is not globalization, but the failure to
diversify stagnant economy, outdated infrastructure, and lack of new
infrastructure.

Over 70% of Russian export relies on oil sales and weapons to third world
countries. No wonder people loved Putin when the oil was $140/barrel, but
now the economy is fucked. America invests in a lot of different things so
its better off, but it is also getting screwed by Chinese IP theft. They
can manufacture same products for fraction of the cost with cheap labor.
On Jan 27, 2016 6:34 AM, "Александр" <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:

> not a bad analysis:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s97Af1SrgjQ
>
>
>
>
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From konstantin at digithinkit.com  Thu Jan 28 01:59:02 2016
From: konstantin at digithinkit.com (Konstantin Kowaiski)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 04:59:02 -0500
Subject: What you can hear at Davos... With RTL-SDR
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28dPwsyN3m1unoxCrC22nRAaw=gNTjv+ShhQ9RkNq8bEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28dPwsyN3m1unoxCrC22nRAaw=gNTjv+ShhQ9RkNq8bEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCgiECoLTRFRK3teNypufCev_BxJF2_swhFGgc00Oy4_VNVsw@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any good tutorials on how to set up GNU Radio with ADS? I'm a
C++/python hacker, and got the RTL dongle, but i feel like fish out of
water with radio and signal stuff.
On Jan 28, 2016 1:38 AM, "grarpamp" <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/01/27/1654246/collecting-private-flight-data-on-the-world-economic-forum-attendees-with-rtl-sdr
>
> http://qz.com/600590/we-brought-an-antenna-to-davos-to-track-private-air-travel-and-heres-what-we-found/
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast
> http://bit.do/RTL-SDR-and-GNU-Radio-with-Realtek-RTL2832U
>
> Every year politicians and business men meet at the World Economic
> Forum in the small mountain town of Davos, Switzerland to discuss
> various topics and create business deals. This year Quartz, an online
> newspaper/magazine sent a journalist to the forum tasked with writing
> a unconventional story about the forum: he was asked to monitor the
> private helicopter traffic coming in and out of Davos from transponder
> broadcast of ADS-B data. Using an $20 RTL-SDR dongle, Raspberry Pi and
> ADS-B collinear antenna they monitored the flights over Davos. From
> the data they were able to determine the flight paths that many
> helicopters took, the types of helicopters used and the most popular
> flight times.
>
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From tom at vondein.org  Wed Jan 27 23:39:54 2016
From: tom at vondein.org (Tom)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:39:54 +0100
Subject: request for comment re "contributor-covenant.org"
In-Reply-To: <1453930474.10710.43.camel@riseup.net>
References: <CAOsGNSRxtVVkAi-HaaD7oA=9QrPtJ=s=s3W5-jmUYADd9bTFfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTSMOgXZfk1V8jKy+6PwS50w6y6pv29c39kthy-gnKD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160127111709.Horde.sMzLRyyRTFJyDfqEn1S8wTp@collabra.metaverse.org>
 <56A8C8F9.4070208@pilobilus.net>
 <1453930474.10710.43.camel@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160128073954.GO50941@r4>

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 04:34:34PM -0500, Ted Smith wrote:
> Have you seen this list in the last ~6 months or so? God, I can't even
> remember how long it's been since cpunks was good. (inb4 cpunks was
> never good)

And fascist policing of the mailing list would improve the quality of
postings?



Tom

-- 
 sent from the past




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Jan 28 09:28:57 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:28:57 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [liberationtech] Geoblocking and Global Video Culture
In-Reply-To: <18178104.sXYFv63ClI@lapuntu>
References: <56A8FD88.9060807@riseup.net> <18178104.sXYFv63ClI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56AA4FD9.7030907@riseup.net>

rysiek wrote:
> Dnia środa, 27 stycznia 2016 09:25:28 Rayzer pisze:
>> Online read. Download available with login via specific social mediaz or
>> (apparently free) account creation
> Might I suggest:
> http://bugmenot.com/view/networkcultures.org
>
> :)
>

OK then, read it online.
http://issuu.com/instituteofnetworkcultures/docs/tod_18-geoblocking-final_cover/

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


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From afalex169 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 28 02:29:51 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:29:51 +0200
Subject: To understand what is in the elitist cookbook of the globalist
 psychopaths
In-Reply-To: <CAOCgiEC=BkzGu82mStJtvu+6ZY17cCg+2iEgNTCRp0i7Jne1fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEm6KbL4uRLnKE45-YMe9=T2fPZTu2OEPJHcN=77sRbteFYP-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOCgiEC=BkzGu82mStJtvu+6ZY17cCg+2iEgNTCRp0i7Jne1fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbLNo_3vDfheJP0WJkgysOTy3JB+BPm7536DWmjBu0BzdA@mail.gmail.com>

grarpamp at gmail.com
> everyone here already had their coffee this morning.

grarpamp, don't you speak for "everyone". Speak for yourself.

p.s.
I am happy for your coffee. But i don't really care about it.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 28 05:35:22 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:35:22 +0100
Subject: Fwd: [liberationtech] Geoblocking and Global Video Culture
In-Reply-To: <56A8FD88.9060807@riseup.net>
References: <56A8FD88.9060807@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <18178104.sXYFv63ClI@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 27 stycznia 2016 09:25:28 Rayzer pisze:
> Online read. Download available with login via specific social mediaz or
> (apparently free) account creation

Might I suggest:
http://bugmenot.com/view/networkcultures.org

:)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From ryacko at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 09:20:40 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 09:20:40 -0800
Subject: Methods of Exercising Control over the Direction of Discourse
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0BmK3R209pXR8ssuThjLNL_dkpX6up9UK8a2zNAnuJdQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies is no doubt disinformation. It is
seemingly complete, as if to extinguish further analysis on the subject.
But it seems to exclude methods which cannot be noticed, and seems to play
to the fears of the paranoid. No doubt the psychologist who prepared the
document is a threat to humanity itself and ought to be subject to summary
execution.

Afterall, a lack of interest in a topic should not be confused with forum
sliding. Naturally if one is to bring up forum sliding in a forum, one
would be dismissed as a troll and banned, perhaps rightly so.

Through methods pioneered by Freud, I believe I have uncovered the methods
in which the elites manipulate and stifle discussion to benefit their own
interests.

It is important to troll undesirable activists. It creates a low-grade
trauma (which may increase social withdrawal and increased sensitivity to
threats), makes them distrust certain common aspects of the trolls (through
mental association), and wastes their time.

It is also important to shift the internal Overton window of a group. While
greater society has an Overton window over certain subjects, it's
subcultures too have Overton windows. You don't see libertarians talk too
much about nationalization now, do you? For conspiracy theorists, it is
important to make it very difficult for new people to accept any conspiracy
theory. Afterall, there's no clear line as to how the idea that the elites
are conspiring is all that different then all the elites are lizard people
(well, maybe have lizard brains, but that's different). Thus one must shift
the direction of discussion to that of which is absurd so that additional
individuals are unlikely to do anything more than outright dismiss the
theories.

Upon watching a propaganda video by North Korea targeted toward the
conspiracy theorist members of the English-speaking population (
https://youtu.be/WEGMJE6I_Q4?t=28s ), it is evident that the video is
targeting individuals with heightened responses to threats. It talks more
about dangers without focusing on the logic of those dangers or alternative
explanations. It's possible the video did not come from North Korea, but to
make consumerist culture seem to exist by design, when it is quite likely
it will exist anyway but could be promoted to serve the ends of the elites.

These are self-serving individuals who are very good at what they do.
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From shakeitoff at ghostmail.com  Fri Jan 29 05:25:20 2016
From: shakeitoff at ghostmail.com (shakeitoff at ghostmail.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:25:20 +0000
Subject: request for comment re &quot;contributor-covenant.org&quot;
Message-ID: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>

>> Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this includes
>> those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or social
>>environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive
>> aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply to
>> you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this mailing
>> list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!




Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on this list? Why are these silently accepted?




Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above approach.




Be careful of becoming the oppressor.



Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come from the same background as you?




This is a problem. The lack of diversity in this group is not a magical phenomenon without a root cause.



There is a deeper problem. If (and how) this should change is up to this community.




Sadly, the ideals of this community are often lost in the (typically incoherent) bigotry spewing from the trolls.




4.12.4. "Crypto Anarchy sounds too wild for me."

 - I accept that many people will find the implications of

 crypto anarchy (which follows in turn from the existence of

 strong cryptography, via the Crypto Anarchy Principle) to

 be more than they can accept.

 - This is OK (not that you need my OK!). The house of

 Cypherpunks has many rooms.




All are welcome. I hope.




>> There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have

>> learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally sensitive
>> environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or
>> psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field of
>> technology discussed on this mailing list.




Wow. How fucking elitist can you be? 








        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 09:36:56 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:36:56 -0300
Subject: request for comment re &quot;contributor-covenant.org&quot;
In-Reply-To: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <56aba37d.874d370a.a7ede.ffffc8de@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:25:20 +0000
"" <shakeitoff at ghostmail.com> wrote:

> >> Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and
> >> this includes those who communicate deceptively regarding their
> >> own needs and or social
> >>environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a
> >>passive
> >> aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication
> >> may apply to you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences
> >> should you join this mailing list- we shall roast you in words,
> >> with glee!
> 
>  
> 
> Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism
> on this list? Why are these silently accepted?


	Whatever bigotry and chauvinism there is, you don't seem to
	have spoken against it too much (if at all). So, you are asking
	that question to yourself?

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as
> a collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe
> your above approach.

	

	http://cypherpunks.venona.com/date/1994/09/msg00147.html

	https://cryptome.org/jya/fuckit.htm








From themikebest at gmail.com  Fri Jan 29 12:39:59 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 15:39:59 -0500
Subject: The Crisis and Opportunity of Information Warfare
Message-ID: <CANFTA09EsdMwp9Ooi0KyxCOLApH16J-hv5wTFEPhrP0ijx+AAQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://archive.org/details/TheCrisisAndOpportunityOfInformationWarfare

The latest document I found while digging up old publications relating to
PROMIS and the Inslaw affair.

The Inslaw PROMIS softare itself had that purpose... and more important,
> had the full capability of doing it. It is the Cadillac of software systems
> ... tying directly into the ... Federal Emergency Management Agency's plan
> to arrest, jail and hold in detention camps political dissidents


--Mike
That1Archive.neocities.org
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From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Jan 29 16:35:54 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:35:54 +0000
Subject: request for comment re &quot;contributor-covenant.org&quot;
In-Reply-To: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>
References: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRy-ePa3=uNa1v+QSfw420Ks6fCVhwiMNBX2y1CfK6zng@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/16, shakeitoff at ghostmail.com <shakeitoff at ghostmail.com> wrote:
>>> Genuinely anti-social communication is actively discouraged, and this
>>> includes
>>> those who communicate deceptively regarding their own needs and or
>>> social
>>>environment requirements, as well as those who communicate in a passive
>>> aggressive way. If you this any of these types of communication may apply
>>> to
>>> you, then be prepared to suffer the consequences should you join this
>>> mailing
>>> list- we shall roast you in words, with glee!
>
> Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on
> this list? Why are these silently accepted?

Who's "job" is that? Are you defining this job for someone other than yourself?


> Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a
> collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above
> approach.

These two sentences are approaching incoherent. Would you like to try
again? It is probably not constructive for me to respond to
incoherence - there is perhaps some truth or pain or seeking which has
not been expressed clearly, which I would hope you feel confident
about expressing, or re- attempting to express - such is in our
collective interests.


> Be careful of becoming the oppressor.

Agreed.


> Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come
> from the same background as you?
>
> This is a problem.

So say you.

If you wish an intelligent discourse, please put more effort into
explaining this "problem" you assert, describing why you think there
is a problem, etc in a way which others might be able to agree with
you - asserting that something is a problem, in and of itself, says
close to nothing, and is therefore not useful. You might want others
to agree with you that there is a problem, here in this tiny (!!)
corner of the world called the cypherpunks mailing list. You might
even be able to cite coherent facts demonstrating your position - none
of this means I or any other individual has to agree with you, though
some may.

Making you assertion is presently an island waiting for supporters -
nothing more than a political position in search of part members. This
is not the place for such superficiality. I personally seek deeper
conversation.


> The lack of diversity in this group is not a magical
> phenomenon without a root cause.

Your assertions leave me raising my eyebrows.


> There is a deeper problem.

And again.

> If (and how) this should change is up to this
> community.

Possible actions based on unsubstantiated presumptions. This -is-
objectionable to me.

You want me to buy in to your political cause? You might consider
presenting a more substantial position, perhaps one based in fact.


> Sadly, the ideals of this community are often lost in the (typically
> incoherent) bigotry spewing from the trolls.

This is flame bait. Persistent flame baiting is regarded as trolling.


> 4.12.4. "Crypto Anarchy sounds too wild for me."
>  - I accept that many people will find the implications of
>  crypto anarchy (which follows in turn from the existence of
>  strong cryptography, via the Crypto Anarchy Principle) to
>  be more than they can accept.
>
>  - This is OK (not that you need my OK!). The house of
>  Cypherpunks has many rooms.
>
> All are welcome. I hope.

We share the same hope. For me it is a certainty - I need no hope
about "all being welcome", since it is already a fact.

Your assertions to the contrary notwithstanding...


>>> There are forums and mailing lists which are suitable for those who have
>>> learning difficulties (reference?), for those who need an emotionally
>>> sensitive
>>> environment (be sure to check if you need professional medical or
>>> psychological support), and for those who are beginniners in the field
>>> of
>>> technology discussed on this mailing list.
>
> Wow. How fucking elitist can you be?

Is it your position that humans in general have no right to create
communication spaces, semi public as this one is, that fit their
desires?

Do you assert that you would like a particular communication space to
exist, which does not currently exist, but which is somehow similar to
cypherpunks mailing list, but perhaps a little different?

If so, have you tried to create such a space?

Or are you simply begrudging this space that has been created not by
you, and not specifically for you (although you are welcome), for some
reasons (perhaps it does not quite meet your expectations?, perhaps
you have taken certain words posted as adversarial to your own actual
intentions to participate?)?

With your assertion of problems existing in this particular space,
without any substantiation of fact, there is not much of a
conversation besides "I want more of something undefined and other
should provide it to me" is there?

Before I turn my own vehemence into another strawman, perhaps
reconsider your presentation/ wording?

Creating spaces in this world that -you- want, is up to you. You may
of course try to enroll others into you intentions, but at the moment,
you might like to work on refining that last bit...

Good luck,
Zenaan




From shakeitoff at ghostmail.com  Sat Jan 30 10:07:46 2016
From: shakeitoff at ghostmail.com (shakeitoff at ghostmail.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 18:07:46 +0000
Subject: request for comment re
 &amp;quot;contributor-covenant.org&amp;quot;
Message-ID: <18f8c16843bb8a118278f5e28c49389e@www.ghostmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 12:36 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:




>> Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism

>> on this list? Why are these silently accepted?






> Whatever bigotry and chauvinism there is, you don't seem to

> have spoken against it too much (if at all). So, you are asking

> that question to yourself?





You are right. I've done nothing but watch in silence when it happens.

The responsibility is mine, but it is also yours, and it is everyone's in this community.

Speaking out against injustice is not censorship. Although perhaps this could be considered a fine line.





        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From ryacko at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 00:15:32 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:15:32 -0800
Subject: [cryptome] The Crisis and Opportunity of Information Warfare
In-Reply-To: <CANFTA09EsdMwp9Ooi0KyxCOLApH16J-hv5wTFEPhrP0ijx+AAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA09EsdMwp9Ooi0KyxCOLApH16J-hv5wTFEPhrP0ijx+AAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i16H3qnU-iE+ov-ZFaEYV4DSjbDOzwOPdV4W3eyr8jcMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com>
wrote:

> https://archive.org/details/TheCrisisAndOpportunityOfInformationWarfare
>
> The latest document I found while digging up old publications relating to
> PROMIS and the Inslaw affair.
>
> The Inslaw PROMIS softare itself had that purpose... and more important,
>> had the full capability of doing it. It is the Cadillac of software systems
>> ... tying directly into the ... Federal Emergency Management Agency's plan
>> to arrest, jail and hold in detention camps political dissidents
>
>
> --Mike
> That1Archive.neocities.org
>


Promis sounds a lot like Google. Google came out of Stanford, a university
known for much research on behalf of the government.
There doesn't appear to be enough information to prove anything though.
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 01:41:06 2016
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 04:41:06 -0500
Subject: [cryptome] The Crisis and Opportunity of Information Warfare
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i16H3qnU-iE+ov-ZFaEYV4DSjbDOzwOPdV4W3eyr8jcMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANFTA09EsdMwp9Ooi0KyxCOLApH16J-hv5wTFEPhrP0ijx+AAQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7N=i16H3qnU-iE+ov-ZFaEYV4DSjbDOzwOPdV4W3eyr8jcMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5E760BB-64ED-443D-AD13-24308C8CCA17@gmail.com>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inslaw

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 31, 2016, at 3:15 AM, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Michael Best <themikebest at gmail.com> wrote:
>> https://archive.org/details/TheCrisisAndOpportunityOfInformationWarfare
>> 
>> The latest document I found while digging up old publications relating to PROMIS and the Inslaw affair. 
>> 
>>> The Inslaw PROMIS softare itself had that purpose... and more important, had the full capability of doing it. It is the Cadillac of software systems ... tying directly into the ... Federal Emergency Management Agency's plan to arrest, jail and hold in detention camps political dissidents
>> 
>> --Mike
>> That1Archive.neocities.org 
> 
> 
> Promis sounds a lot like Google. Google came out of Stanford, a university known for much research on behalf of the government.
> There doesn't appear to be enough information to prove anything though.
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Sun Jan 31 04:59:04 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:59:04 -0500
Subject: Methods of Exercising Control over the Direction of Discourse
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1ROPsXdusWQgm+jO+FeCAoD6znGTppHnGQGP5XpKBm0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0BmK3R209pXR8ssuThjLNL_dkpX6up9UK8a2zNAnuJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1ROPsXdusWQgm+jO+FeCAoD6znGTppHnGQGP5XpKBm0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56AE0518.4030907@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/31/2016 06:03 AM, coderman wrote:
> On 1/29/16, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ... It is important to troll undesirable activists. It
>> creates a low-grade trauma (which may increase social
>> withdrawal and increased sensitivity to threats), makes them
>> distrust certain common aspects of the trolls (through mental
>> association), and wastes their time.
> 
> esoteric satire subtly applied to test trollishness, underlying
> undercurrent of deceit or goodwill; decentralization demands a
> self sufficient node!

The controversial post that started this discussion directly
quotes the key messaging of current campaigns for the restraint of
speech and enforcement of racial and gender quotas, especially
targeting college campuses - now also targeting collaborative
software development projects, their mailing lists and even CPunks.

Does this phenomenon represent spontaneous demands for justice
arising from the awakening social conscience of Amerika's best and
brightest, or a black propaganda campaign working to drive wedges
between dissident factions and demographics?  I do not think it
matters.  I think the functional consequences of that campaign and
the response it elicits do matter.

Crypto-Anarchy has an inherent agenda of enabling populist
political resistance, organization and uprisings.  To whatever
extent this agenda could find applications in real life, it merits
hostile attention from State sponsored actors.  Depicting the
CPunk and Hacker communities as gangs of racist misogynists, and
prodding them in ways designed to provoke open mockery of any such
concerns, makes strategic sense in this context.

It always pays to outclass the opposition, in word /and/ deed.
Trolls, Buffoons and Lunaticks have their uses and some get paid;
but they have no staying power and eventually land on the rubbish
heap.  It is said that a wise person may choose to act like a
fool, but that a fool can not choose to act like a wise person.
Let the great sorting begin...  or, heh heh, stop it if you can.

:o)







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From jm at porup.com  Sun Jan 31 06:59:04 2016
From: jm at porup.com (J.M. Porup)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:59:04 -0500
Subject: Fwd: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160131145902.GA1773@fedora-21-dvm>

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 02:17:49PM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> My kinda speech,
> Zenaan
> 
> ---
> New high school principal
> 
> A Speech Every Australian High School Principal Should Give.

Complete bullshit. See Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/principal.asp

jmp




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Jan 31 11:55:43 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:55:43 -0800
Subject: Fwd: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56AE66BF.1090903@riseup.net>

ROTF! "There will be a formal dress code"

How "Back to the 50s"... Were you around for the 50s Zenaan?

A sick sick corrosion of conformity enveloped Western Industrial society
and it's satraps (ie. 1950s Australia) like automotive and industrial
effluvia envelop those nations today.

And what if, like more and more "Australians" everyday, your parents
find themselves jobless, homeless, and impoverished, and can't afford
'formal attire' to send the loinspawn off for their five day a week
orwellian programming regimen? Those kids going to get bullied,
ridiculed, with official sanction...

Listen, my mother, a New York City school teacher, was considering
emigrating to Australian in the early 60s when she found out Australia
was offering 'special deals' for immigrant teaching staff from certain
countries. Then she found out Australian schools were still segregated,
and worse.... Black teachers need not have applied.

Fuck your "Australia Nation". Fuck ALL 'nations'.

Kill your indoctrinators today kids!

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"



Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> My kinda speech,
> Zenaan
>
> ---
> New high school principal
>
> A Speech Every Australian High School Principal Should Give.
>
> To the students and faculty of our high school:
>
> I am your new principal, and honored to be so.
>
> There is no greater calling than to teach young people.
>
> I would like to apprise you of some important changes coming to our school.
>
> I am making these changes because I am convinced that most of the
> ideas that have dominated public education in Australia have worked
> against you, against your teachers and against our country.
>
> First, this school will no longer honour race or ethnicity.  I could
> not care less if your racial makeup is black, brown, red, yellow or
> white. I could not care less if your origins are African, Latin
> American, Asian or European, or if your ancestors arrived here on the
> Endeavour or on slave ships.
>
> The only identity I care about, the only one this school will
> recognize, is your individual identity -- your character, your
> scholarship, your humanity.
>
> And the only national identity this school will care about is Australia.
>
> This is an Australian public school, and Australian public schools
> were created to make better Australians.  If you wish to affirm an
> ethnic, racial or religious identity through school, you will have to
> go elsewhere.   We will end all ethnicity, race and non-Australian
> nationality-based celebrations.  They undermine the motto of
> Australia, one of its three central values -- epluribus Unum, "from
> many, one."  And this school will be guided by Australia's values.
> This includes all after-school clubs.  I will not authorize clubs that
> divide students based on any identities.   This includes race,
> language, religion, sexual orientation or whatever else may become in
> vogue in a society divided by political correctness.
>
> Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic,
> racial or other physically defined ties.
>
> Those clubs just cultivate narcissism -- an unhealthy preoccupation
> with the self -- while the purpose of education is to get you to think
> beyond yourself.
>
> So we will have clubs that transport you to the wonders and glories of
> art, music, astronomy, languages you do not already speak, carpentry
> and more.
>
> If the only extracurricular activities you can imagine being
> interested in are those based on ethnic, racial or sexual identity,
> that means that little outside of yourself really interests you.
>
> Second, I am uninterested in whether English is your native language.
>
> My only interest in terms of language is that you leave this school
> speaking and writing English as fluently as possible.
>
> The English language has united Australia's citizens for over 200
> years, and it will unite us at this school.   It is one of the
> indispensable reasons this country of immigrants has always come to be
> one country.  And if you leave this school without excellent English
> language skills, I would be remiss in my duty to ensure that you will
> be prepared to successfully compete in the Australian job market.
>
> We will learn other languages here -- it is deplorable that most
> Australians only speak English -- but if you want classes taught in
> your native language rather than in English,this is not your school.
>
> Third, because I regard learning as a sacred endeavour, everything in
> this school will reflect learning's elevated status.
>
> This means, among other things, that you and your teachers will dress
> accordingly.
>
> Many people in our society dress more formally for Horse Racing events
> than for church or school. These people have their priorities
> backward. Therefore, there will be a formal dress code at this school.
>
> Fourth, no obscene language will be tolerated anywhere on this
> school's property -- whether in class, in the hallways or at athletic
> events. If you can't speak without using the f -word, you can't speak.
> By obscene language I mean the words banned by the Federal
> Communications Commission, plus epithets such as "Abbo," even when
> used by one black student to address another black, or "bitch," even
> when addressed by a girl to a girlfriend. It is my intent that by the
> time you leave this school, you will be among the few your age to
> instinctively distinguish between the elevated and the degraded, the
> holy and the obscene.
>
> Fifth, we will end all self-esteem programs. In this school,
> self-esteem will be attained in only one way -- the way people
> attained it until decided otherwise a generation ago -- by earning it.
>   One immediate consequence is that there will be one valedictorian,
> not eight.
>
> Sixth, and last, I am reorienting the school toward academics and away
> from politics and propaganda.  No more time will be devoted to scaring
> you about smoking and caffeine, or terrifying you about sexual
> harassment or global warming.
>
> No more semesters will be devoted to condom wearing and teaching you
> to regard sexual relations as only or primarily a health issue..
>
> There will be no more attempts to convince you that you are a victim
> because you are not white, or not male, or not heterosexual or not
> Christian.
>
> We will have failed if any one of you graduates this school and does
> not consider him or herself inordinately fortunate -- to be alive and
> to be an Australian.
>
> Now, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag
> of our country.
>
> As many of you do not know the words, your teachers will hand them out to you.
>



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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 03:03:18 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 12:03:18 +0100
Subject: Methods of Exercising Control over the Direction of Discourse
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0BmK3R209pXR8ssuThjLNL_dkpX6up9UK8a2zNAnuJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0BmK3R209pXR8ssuThjLNL_dkpX6up9UK8a2zNAnuJdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1ROPsXdusWQgm+jO+FeCAoD6znGTppHnGQGP5XpKBm0Qg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/16, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> It is important to troll undesirable activists. It creates a low-grade
> trauma (which may increase social withdrawal and increased sensitivity to
> threats), makes them distrust certain common aspects of the trolls (through
> mental association), and wastes their time.

esoteric satire subtly applied to test trollishness,
 underlying undercurrent of deceit or goodwill;
  decentralization demands a self sufficient node!

... long past time to cull the wheat and chaff,
  dear earth humans.
    :P




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Jan 31 06:17:49 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:17:49 +0000
Subject: Fwd: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>

My kinda speech,
Zenaan

---
New high school principal

A Speech Every Australian High School Principal Should Give.

To the students and faculty of our high school:

I am your new principal, and honored to be so.

There is no greater calling than to teach young people.

I would like to apprise you of some important changes coming to our school.

I am making these changes because I am convinced that most of the
ideas that have dominated public education in Australia have worked
against you, against your teachers and against our country.

First, this school will no longer honour race or ethnicity.  I could
not care less if your racial makeup is black, brown, red, yellow or
white. I could not care less if your origins are African, Latin
American, Asian or European, or if your ancestors arrived here on the
Endeavour or on slave ships.

The only identity I care about, the only one this school will
recognize, is your individual identity -- your character, your
scholarship, your humanity.

And the only national identity this school will care about is Australia.

This is an Australian public school, and Australian public schools
were created to make better Australians.  If you wish to affirm an
ethnic, racial or religious identity through school, you will have to
go elsewhere.   We will end all ethnicity, race and non-Australian
nationality-based celebrations.  They undermine the motto of
Australia, one of its three central values -- epluribus Unum, "from
many, one."  And this school will be guided by Australia's values.
This includes all after-school clubs.  I will not authorize clubs that
divide students based on any identities.   This includes race,
language, religion, sexual orientation or whatever else may become in
vogue in a society divided by political correctness.

Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic,
racial or other physically defined ties.

Those clubs just cultivate narcissism -- an unhealthy preoccupation
with the self -- while the purpose of education is to get you to think
beyond yourself.

So we will have clubs that transport you to the wonders and glories of
art, music, astronomy, languages you do not already speak, carpentry
and more.

If the only extracurricular activities you can imagine being
interested in are those based on ethnic, racial or sexual identity,
that means that little outside of yourself really interests you.

Second, I am uninterested in whether English is your native language.

My only interest in terms of language is that you leave this school
speaking and writing English as fluently as possible.

The English language has united Australia's citizens for over 200
years, and it will unite us at this school.   It is one of the
indispensable reasons this country of immigrants has always come to be
one country.  And if you leave this school without excellent English
language skills, I would be remiss in my duty to ensure that you will
be prepared to successfully compete in the Australian job market.

We will learn other languages here -- it is deplorable that most
Australians only speak English -- but if you want classes taught in
your native language rather than in English,this is not your school.

Third, because I regard learning as a sacred endeavour, everything in
this school will reflect learning's elevated status.

This means, among other things, that you and your teachers will dress
accordingly.

Many people in our society dress more formally for Horse Racing events
than for church or school. These people have their priorities
backward. Therefore, there will be a formal dress code at this school.

Fourth, no obscene language will be tolerated anywhere on this
school's property -- whether in class, in the hallways or at athletic
events. If you can't speak without using the f -word, you can't speak.
By obscene language I mean the words banned by the Federal
Communications Commission, plus epithets such as "Abbo," even when
used by one black student to address another black, or "bitch," even
when addressed by a girl to a girlfriend. It is my intent that by the
time you leave this school, you will be among the few your age to
instinctively distinguish between the elevated and the degraded, the
holy and the obscene.

Fifth, we will end all self-esteem programs. In this school,
self-esteem will be attained in only one way -- the way people
attained it until decided otherwise a generation ago -- by earning it.
  One immediate consequence is that there will be one valedictorian,
not eight.

Sixth, and last, I am reorienting the school toward academics and away
from politics and propaganda.  No more time will be devoted to scaring
you about smoking and caffeine, or terrifying you about sexual
harassment or global warming.

No more semesters will be devoted to condom wearing and teaching you
to regard sexual relations as only or primarily a health issue..

There will be no more attempts to convince you that you are a victim
because you are not white, or not male, or not heterosexual or not
Christian.

We will have failed if any one of you graduates this school and does
not consider him or herself inordinately fortunate -- to be alive and
to be an Australian.

Now, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag
of our country.

As many of you do not know the words, your teachers will hand them out to you.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 05:36:12 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 14:36:12 +0100
Subject: Better Discourse through Self Evidence; Mentorship
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R=swOt3qFvQUOAuBr6TddX+9erXJhgK2qM47FAfMwU=w@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/16, Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> ...
> It always pays to outclass the opposition, in word /and/ deed.
> Trolls, Buffoons and Lunaticks have their uses and some get paid;
> but they have no staying power and eventually land on the rubbish
> heap.  It is said that a wise person may choose to act like a
> fool, but that a fool can not choose to act like a wise person.
> Let the great sorting begin...  or, heh heh, stop it if you can.

ignorance in a mind eager to learn more,
 is merely indicative of inquisitiveness.

but willful ignorance in an obstinate fool
 needs no action other than absolute avoidance!


there are many out there looking to learn with sincerity,
 yet so few teachers and mentors able to sate with knowledge
  instead of misguided misinformation or intentional obfuscation...


be the font of educational insight and inspiration you wish to see in
the world :)




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Jan 31 07:00:04 2016
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:00:04 +0000
Subject: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbLSpTd_ib2+p-ogHxkVk3GMaHS7A4YGG3AxMXXQqFR2nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAEm6KbLSpTd_ib2+p-ogHxkVk3GMaHS7A4YGG3AxMXXQqFR2nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4BDD3B7@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Александр <afalex169 at gmail.com> writes:

>I just hope he will not get fired by the end of the semester because of some
>kind of liberal nonsense (""infringement of the rights"") or slander.

Since it came from talk show host Dennis Prager and not any high school
principal, it's unlikely anyone'll get fired over it.

Peter.






From shakeitoff at ghostmail.com  Sun Jan 31 07:01:04 2016
From: shakeitoff at ghostmail.com (shakeitoff at ghostmail.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:01:04 +0000
Subject: request for comment re
 &amp;quot;contributor-covenant.org&amp;quot;
Message-ID: <d4d4c153dd6342552d11ddd8fc9f6ecd@www.ghostmail.com>

>> Cypherpunks defines government as “a home for bullies masquerading as a

>> collective defense.” Interestingly, that is how I would describe your above

>> approach.




> These two sentences are approaching incoherent. Would you like to try

> again? It is probably not constructive for me to respond to

> incoherence - there is perhaps some truth or pain or seeking which has

> not been expressed clearly, which I would hope you feel confident

> about expressing, or re- attempting to express - such is in our

> collective interests.




The main worry is when “gleeful roasting” slips into bullying and irreversible harm. It's easy for a collective group to shout someone out for the wrong reasons. 




Censorship is not the answer to this. But having plain, honest, thoughtful conversations might be. 




>> Look around. Do the people around you look like you? Think like you? Come

>> from the same background as you?

>

>> This is a problem.




> So say you.




> Making you assertion is presently an island waiting for supporters -

> nothing more than a political position in search of part members. This

> is not the place for such superficiality. I personally seek deeper

> conversation.




If you create an environment that is conducive to only one socioeconomic class, you lose individuals who are strong technologists, but whom don’t fit a certain race/gender/economic profile.




It is a loss for the community when strong technologists leave because they do not fit the socioeconomic culture of the majority. Especially when considering what this group is fundamentally trying to resist. 




>From my own personal experience- when a group is diverse, one’s own race/gender/economic background matters less and fades into the background.




This is the ideal- to not even have to talk/think about socioeconomic issues, and focus on common issues- on how to reverse the end of privacy, on writing code, on ensuring strong cryptography.




> Do you assert that you would like a particular communication space to

> exist, which does not currently exist, but which is somehow similar to

> cypherpunks mailing list, but perhaps a little different?




No, there is nothing begrudging. I’m here because I want to be useful to ensure that privacy and personal liberty and privacy continue to exist. And to learn.




This is the ask:  don’t let this be a space where someone has to struggle between alignment to the cypherpunks ideology (writing code, ensuring privacy and liberty, preserving cryptography) and alienation because of one’s socioeconomic background.




Also, let us not forget who the real enemy is.




Thank you.





        Sent from secure GhostMail. Easy and free encrypted email, chat and cloud storage, free sign up here: https://www.ghostmail.com

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 10:36:26 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:36:26 -0300
Subject: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56ae546f.4fe38c0a.1316c.ffffdf14@mx.google.com>



> New high school principal

> The only identity I care about, the only one this school will
> recognize, is your individual identity 

	Sounds...fine?


> And the only national identity this school will care about is
> Australia.

	Wait. If the guy was an individualist he would be closing his
	national  indoctrination center  and overthrowing
	the 'australian'  governemnt and english/german monarchy. 

	
	It doesn't matter who wrote the speech, it is nonsense anyway =)

	And oh, public 'education' 'managed' by nation states is a form
	of socialism. Nation state socialism...










From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 06:40:46 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:40:46 +0100
Subject: "out-of-band exfiltration"
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QYp7+Dw84APkT=NYVXLb=1T-CSJTD9H_caEFhUSrT1cg@mail.gmail.com>

the TAO master spoke of "out-of-band exfiltration" of data at high
risk of discovery,
 one thing an alert sysadmin might observe and react to.

has anyone seen a summary of the exfiltration methods identified in
leaks/other so far?

this would have to span everything from Google Voice Search as covert
channel, to retroreflector enabled signal recovery.

pointers?


best regards,




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sun Jan 31 14:04:26 2016
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:04:26 -0600
Subject: Fwd: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1454277866.7290.1.camel@moonpatrol>

On Sun, 2016-01-31 at 14:17 +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> My kinda speech,
> Zenaan
> 
> ---
> New high school principal
> 
> A Speech Every Australian High School Principal Should Give.

Great speech, but...

> By obscene language I mean the words banned by the Federal
> Communications Commission, 

Shouldn't this be something else, perhaps the Communications and Media
Authority? The FCC is a US agency.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 06:42:37 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 16:42:37 +0200
Subject: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbLSpTd_ib2+p-ogHxkVk3GMaHS7A4YGG3AxMXXQqFR2nQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
> The only identity I care about, the only one this school will
> recognize, is your individual identity -- your character, your
> scholarship, your humanity.
>
> Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic,
> racial or other physically defined ties.
>
> the purpose of education is to get you to think
> beyond yourself.
>
>  I regard learning as a sacred endeavour, everything in
> this school will reflect learning's elevated status.
>
>  It is my intent that by the
> time you leave this school, you will be among the few your age to
> instinctively distinguish between the elevated and the degraded, the
> holy and the obscene.
>
> I am reorienting the school toward academics and away
> from politics and propaganda
>

Amen.
I just hope he will not get fired by the end of the semester because of
some kind of liberal nonsense (""infringement of the rights"") or slander.

Good Luck to this Bold principal.
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 10:10:40 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:10:40 +0100
Subject: request for comment re &quot;contributor-covenant.org&quot;
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRy-ePa3=uNa1v+QSfw420Ks6fCVhwiMNBX2y1CfK6zng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27cef2fea675ec34feed04430fd2ce9f@www.ghostmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRy-ePa3=uNa1v+QSfw420Ks6fCVhwiMNBX2y1CfK6zng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RGf4bhFJ5S8NjDJYOaC3ZCZRVpv0h4nSTXfNgYqeNpHg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
>> ...
>> Why doesn't the gleeful roasting extend to the bigotry and chauvinism on
>> this list? Why are these silently accepted?
>
> Who's "job" is that? Are you defining this job for someone other than
> yourself?

the decentralized node must ascertain for itself,
 the caliber of a communique or code repo.

thus let bigoted chauvinists be so deftly demoted,
 in a robust manner at each end, immune to secondary interference.



>> Be careful of becoming the oppressor.
>
> Agreed.

and what is convention, if not tyranny of the past?

;)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 10:12:57 2016
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 19:12:57 +0100
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R+k6xijceMjb94S_KzFYjnJt5gMC8h+9masVks1c1_aw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1R4iRR6MN1WKoRQP5GM86zG-ZWRznOfUesHqs6qrxvfAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RNH9On85vohEYV3WnSZT+1zt_V4+Z29FQ2RFxkSx0A_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TVDOnCHfJUdegibwK--atNAhUfB8hz3gNTftEDeCJ27Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QyQCiXbw1rvPKQZ8fkOkzPQki=i_k+vW53A0MTAQWoRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TTVO7qD-zc3NUQdfO++74gqaOJJr6a_rhKEB600dF-5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SjduqBGA=NFPb=6SFfb3kyAw0oL2xn6PcRYSR-J_agTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T+mp2LkUrfz0XPOsJFZ-VGuC-r=iSVr795Uq8pyoMOjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYg4qjUuTA7i1F-t4wBKh-1ofQ3Ty0ZwndYo9paxX9ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SA6YJGuawFxRyaBT7eEgFappiFAyjbi3GUFSBKdcfSFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R1f+4OYVpa15ez2X4sZ-Tga0N9sut8bf24iP1d8ztwCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RRHPh6KV-Ncgz2N1rp4FT3ivcqPwy3NBYHKtSx7QT+mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QQgBrgT=iJXaH8QZ2BDqyCZ1gD7h7AH=EJLRcvApK_4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R2q166W_pwJwA67VT4peV+RhCjYb-Dk+b0qauzrSV+Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SEFzByw4wA9o0u=64QHWJmdLmMtbX_debnhBFPOBSxBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1R+k6xijceMjb94S_KzFYjnJt5gMC8h+9masVks1c1_aw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1T00zyoNVPGMFh9pdHKB6wRf7vD0E3VktUDOkog4hcayw@mail.gmail.com>

final FOIA for January:

---

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/injusticelaundrydept-23703/



To Whom It May Concern:

This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act. I hereby
request the following records:

1.) First page of documents, transcripts, guidelines, reports, and
other responsive materials regarding recommend actions by the
Department of Justice with regard to applications for foreign
intelligence and counterintelligence electronic surveillance, as well
as for other investigative activities by executive branch agencies.
The first page only is requested to limit quantity of responsive
materials, and also to limit scope of review of sensitive material
which may be withheld according to proper specific exemptions.

2.) First page of documents, transcripts, guidelines, reports, and
other responsive materials produced by, within, or in collaboration
with the Intelligence Analysis Unit (IAU), which provides liaison with
the intelligence community and timely intelligence product to the
Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General, supporting their
national security responsibilities. The first page only is requested
to limit quantity of responsive materials, and also to limit scope of
review of sensitive material which may be withheld according to proper
specific exemptions.

3.) The first pages of responsive documents for all years since 1980
are explicitly requested, as these responsive materials will have been
produced by work of the the Office of Intelligence Policy and Review
(OIPR), created by Attorney General Order No. 875-80, 28 C.F.R., Part
O, Subpart F-1, approved by Attorney General Civiletti in 1980.
Please consider the spirit as well as the letter of the Freedom of
Information Act Law while processing this request. Thank you!

The requested documents will be made available to the general public,
and this request is not being made for commercial purposes.

In the event that there are fees, I would be grateful if you would
inform me of the total charges in advance of fulfilling my request. I
would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment
if available or CD-ROM, DVD-R, or BD-R if not.

Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation in this matter.
I look forward to receiving your response to this request within 20
business days, as the statute requires.

---

:)


best regards,




From bardi.harborow at gmail.com  Sun Jan 31 09:10:06 2016
From: bardi.harborow at gmail.com (Bardi Harborow)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 22:40:06 +0530
Subject: Fwd: New High School Principal's speech to students.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <510A847E700D4DD684DDF160ADA31ECB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSS+8pZmJqig5Y39+57ghC0jMPydEPdC7P3CLkFf9P5Aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0x7sw5RU41G4-VLa+ZERnFdOAukZaE640RDQbHzqQ_okT0aQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm from Australia, so I thought I would I would throw in my 2 cents
(0.01416 USD at time of writing).

>
> My kinda speech,
> Zenaan
>
> ---
> New high school principal
>
> A Speech Every Australian High School Principal Should Give.
>
> To the students and faculty of our high school:
>
> I am your new principal, and honored to be so.

This principal needs to go back to school and learn the language of
the country they seem to be so proud of. It's "honoured" not
"honored".

>
> There is no greater calling than to teach young people.
>
> I would like to apprise you of some important changes coming to our school.
>
> I am making these changes because I am convinced that most of the
> ideas that have dominated public education in Australia have worked
> against you, against your teachers and against our country.

Okay, fine.

>
> First, this school will no longer honour race or ethnicity.  I could
> not care less if your racial makeup is black, brown, red, yellow or
> white. I could not care less if your origins are African, Latin
> American, Asian or European, or if your ancestors arrived here on the
> Endeavour or on slave ships.
>

How exactly were you "honouring" it before-hand?

> The only identity I care about, the only one this school will
> recognize, is your individual identity -- your character, your
> scholarship, your humanity.
>

*and* your humanity.

> And the only national identity this school will care about is Australia.

The nationalism is painful.

>
> This is an Australian public school, and Australian public schools
> were created to make better Australians.  If you wish to affirm an
> ethnic, racial or religious identity through school, you will have to
> go elsewhere.   We will end all ethnicity, race and non-Australian
> nationality-based celebrations.  They undermine the motto of
> Australia, one of its three central values -- epluribus Unum, "from
> many, one."  And this school will be guided by Australia's values.

What do you count as non-Australian nationality-based celebrations? Do
we even have any Australian nationality-based celebrations.

"Australia's values" -- invading and slaughtering millions of Aborigines?

> This includes all after-school clubs.  I will not authorize clubs that
> divide students based on any identities.   This includes race,
> language, religion, sexual orientation or whatever else may become in
> vogue in a society divided by political correctness.

Okay. This sounds reasonable.

>
> Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic,
> racial or other physically defined ties.
>

Isn't this what clubs are generally?

It makes no sense to start talking about solutions to a problem that
hasn't even been defined yet (shout out to the current contributor
covenant debate).

> Those clubs just cultivate narcissism -- an unhealthy preoccupation
> with the self -- while the purpose of education is to get you to think
> beyond yourself.

"Those" could be a reference to either the clubs before or after the
"changes". Logic would suggest the latter, but the principal should
know better than to structure their paragraphs like this.

More discussion of an imaginary problem.

>
> So we will have clubs that transport you to the wonders and glories of
> art, music, astronomy, languages you do not already speak, carpentry
> and more.
>

Fine.

> If the only extracurricular activities you can imagine being
> interested in are those based on ethnic, racial or sexual identity,
> that means that little outside of yourself really interests you.
>

Ah, okay...?

> Second, I am uninterested in whether English is your native language.
>
> My only interest in terms of language is that you leave this school
> speaking and writing English as fluently as possible.
>
> The English language has united Australia's citizens for over 200
> years, and it will unite us at this school.   It is one of the
> indispensable reasons this country of immigrants has always come to be
> one country.  And if you leave this school without excellent English
> language skills, I would be remiss in my duty to ensure that you will
> be prepared to successfully compete in the Australian job market.
>

The other reason being that people like you are stopped as soon as possible.

> We will learn other languages here -- it is deplorable that most
> Australians only speak English -- but if you want classes taught in
> your native language rather than in English,this is not your school.

"it is deplorable that most Australians only speak English" -- Exactly
why I'm on a student exchange program right now.

"but if you want classes taught in your native language rather than in
English,this is not your school." -- Okay, your school doesn't have
the capability to offer classes in another language. That's fine. Most
schools in Australia don't.

>
> Third, because I regard learning as a sacred endeavour, everything in
> this school will reflect learning's elevated status.
>
> This means, among other things, that you and your teachers will dress
> accordingly.
>

> Many people in our society dress more formally for Horse Racing events
> than for church or school. These people have their priorities
> backward. Therefore, there will be a formal dress code at this school.
>
> Fourth, no obscene language will be tolerated anywhere on this
> school's property -- whether in class, in the hallways or at athletic
> events. If you can't speak without using the f -word, you can't speak.
> By obscene language I mean the words banned by the Federal
> Communications Commission, plus epithets such as "Abbo," even when
> used by one black student to address another black, or "bitch," even
> when addressed by a girl to a girlfriend. It is my intent that by the
> time you leave this school, you will be among the few your age to
> instinctively distinguish between the elevated and the degraded, the
> holy and the obscene.
>

There are two ways of creating change, by forcing it, or by creating
an environment where the students come to the desired conclusion
themselves.

> Fifth, we will end all self-esteem programs. In this school,
> self-esteem will be attained in only one way -- the way people
> attained it until decided otherwise a generation ago -- by earning it.

I'm from Australia and I'm not sure what "self-esteem programs" would
even entail.

>   One immediate consequence is that there will be one valedictorian,
> not eight.

How about none? We could treat learning as a "sacred endeavour" and
not start telling one person that they, essentially "won the game"
while the rest of them lost. It's this sort of ego-building positive
feedback that creates the kind people our governments are full of.

>
> Sixth, and last, I am reorienting the school toward academics and away
> from politics and propaganda.  No more time will be devoted to scaring
> you about smoking and caffeine, or terrifying you about sexual
> harassment or global warming.
>

"politics" -- In my experience, Australian schools don't discuss
politics very much at all.

"smoking and caffeine" -- Lessons regarding smoking and caffeine have
been somewhat mismanaged in Australia and often more people end up
doing these things after the classes, so there is clearly a problem.

"sexual harassment" -- I've never been in a class that talked about this.

"global warming" -- I've never been in a class that tried to "terrify"
anyone about global warming. If the principal is suggesting that we
should stop teaching the opinion of "97 percent or more of actively
publishing climate scientists" then this people is clearly not
interested in "academics".

(J. Cook, et al, "Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global
warming in the scientific literature,"Environmental Research Letters
Vol. 8 No. 2, (June 2013); DOI:10.1088/1748-9326/8/2/024024)

> No more semesters will be devoted to condom wearing and teaching you
> to regard sexual relations as only or primarily a health issue..

A better approach might be to actually evaluate why these classes have
been so inefficient and take up so much time.

>
> There will be no more attempts to convince you that you are a victim
> because you are not white, or not male, or not heterosexual or not
> Christian.
>

I have some sympathies for this sentence, but I need to flesh that out
more in my head.

> We will have failed if any one of you graduates this school and does
> not consider him or herself inordinately fortunate -- to be alive and
> to be an Australian.
>
> Now, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag
> of our country.
>

I cry.

> As many of you do not know the words, your teachers will hand them out to you.

Being this disrespectful like this to your students is not going to
yield good education outcomes.