From seanl at literati.org  Fri Apr  1 07:26:34 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:26:34 -0700
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
> Got it?
> Period .
> :P
>

I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
techniques.
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From ler762 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 07:38:17 2016
From: ler762 at gmail.com (Lee)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:38:17 -0400
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD8GWsvJNkVWP7VT4ihhb+Wh++onmeQwEX1PBnY5xYxfYamM0A@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/1/16, Sean Lynch  wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Georgi Guninski
> wrote:
>
>> NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
>> Got it?
>> Period .
>> :P
>>
>
> I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
> techniques.

My guess is he was pissed he wasn't allowed to play:
http://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/709818/statement-by-pentagon-press-secretary-peter-cook-on-dods-partnership-with-hacke

Lee




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Apr  1 04:59:55 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:59:55 +0300
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
Message-ID: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>

NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
Got it?
Period .
:P




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 11:32:35 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 15:32:35 -0300
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56febf28.024e370a.1b8ef.fffff930@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:26:34 -0700
Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Georgi Guninski
> <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> 
> > NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
> > Got it?
> > Period .
> > :P
> >
> 
> I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
> techniques.


	Would you care to elaborate Sean? 

	I'd say Georgi's post pretty much sums up the current state of
	the world. Do you disagree? 













From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  1 12:02:01 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:02:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Stingray legal case
References: <240740447.1241023.1459537321337.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <240740447.1241023.1459537321337.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/03/appeals-court-no-stingrays-without-a-warrant-explanation-to-judge/

[quote begins]
On Wednesday, the Maryland Court of Special Appealspublished a legal opinion finding that state police must not only obtain a warrant before deploying a cell-site simulator, but are required to also fully explain to the court what exactly the device does and how it is used.
As Ars has long reported, cell-site simulators—known colloquially as stingrays, can be used to determine a mobile phone’s location by spoofing a cell tower. In some cases, stingrays can intercept calls and text messages. Once deployed, the devices intercept data from a target phonealong with information from other phones within the vicinity. At times, police have falsely claimed the use of a confidential informant when they have actually deployed these particularly sweeping and intrusive surveillance tools.
In recent years, stingray use has come under increasing scrutiny, with several states includingCalifornia, Washington, Virginia, Minnesota, and Utah now mandating a warrant be issued for their use. Last year, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice also imposed new policies that require a warrant for stingray use in most cases.
In an e-mail to Ars, American Civil Liberties Union attorney Nathan Wessler called Wednesday's opinion the "first appellate opinion in the country to fully address the question of whether police must disclose their intent to use a cell site simulator to a judge and obtain a probable cause warrant."
"The court’s opinion is a resounding defense of Fourth Amendment rights in the digital age," he continued. "The court’s withering rebuke of secret and warrantless use of invasive cell phone tracking technology shows why it is so important for these kinds of privacy invasions to be subjected to judicial review. Other courts will be able to look to this opinion as they address rampant use of cell site simulators by police departments across the country.
[end of portion quoted]


My opinion:  The purpose of a "warrant" is to make legal what would otherwise be illegal.  If an ordinary citizen used a stingray for this sort of surveillance, that would clearly be called illegal.  Therefore, police should be required to obtain a warrant in order to use a stingray.  (or, more properly, they shouldn't be allowed to do that at all.)
             Jim Bell




From seanl at literati.org  Fri Apr  1 21:15:37 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:15:37 -0700
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <56febf28.024e370a.1b8ef.fffff930@mx.google.com>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56febf28.024e370a.1b8ef.fffff930@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-=Yr8uQF5ZqH96nuKnpc-DuTta=32_CJs2EQqa4MfwqKQ@mail.gmail.com>

It was a joke. Geez.
On Apr 1, 2016 11:41, "juan" <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:26:34 -0700
> Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Georgi Guninski
> > <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> >
> > > NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
> > > Got it?
> > > Period .
> > > :P
> > >
> >
> > I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
> > techniques.
>
>
>         Would you care to elaborate Sean?
>
>         I'd say Georgi's post pretty much sums up the current state of
>         the world. Do you disagree?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 22:20:29 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 02:20:29 -0300
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-=Yr8uQF5ZqH96nuKnpc-DuTta=32_CJs2EQqa4MfwqKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56febf28.024e370a.1b8ef.fffff930@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-=Yr8uQF5ZqH96nuKnpc-DuTta=32_CJs2EQqa4MfwqKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56ff5707.b3558c0a.a8e33.49ba@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:15:37 -0700
Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:

> It was a joke. Geez.

	My bad. Apologies...


> On Apr 1, 2016 11:41, "juan" <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 07:26:34 -0700
> > Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Georgi Guninski
> > > <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad.
> > > > Got it?
> > > > Period .
> > > > :P
> > > >
> > >
> > > I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
> > > techniques.
> >
> >
> >         Would you care to elaborate Sean?
> >
> >         I'd say Georgi's post pretty much sums up the current state
> > of the world. Do you disagree?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Apr  1 22:38:07 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 08:38:07 +0300
Subject: NSA, USG and sheeple good. You bad. :P
In-Reply-To: <CAD8GWsvJNkVWP7VT4ihhb+Wh++onmeQwEX1PBnY5xYxfYamM0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160401115955.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHKdp-mkMcY3RuKRisoZtfuE0gWkrj7CCe++Pe5zveNfPcGGQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD8GWsvJNkVWP7VT4ihhb+Wh++onmeQwEX1PBnY5xYxfYamM0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160402053807.GA673@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 10:38:17AM -0400, Lee wrote:
> > I see the spooks have decided to try some less subtle manipulation
> > techniques.
> 
> My guess is he was pissed he wasn't allowed to play:
> http://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/709818/statement-by-pentagon-press-secretary-peter-cook-on-dods-partnership-with-hacke
> 
> Lee

More like April Fool's joke.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 21:09:35 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 00:09:35 -0400
Subject: nextdoor.com: Privacy and Datamining Nightmare
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_55-p8-PiU1N3VNNznpOs2m9O--n-r=CiKRPGh+tNZfw@mail.gmail.com>

Like Facebook, but worse.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 22:31:58 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:31:58 -0400
Subject: [tor-relays] I would like to help.
In-Reply-To: <56FB62A5.8050100@t-online.de>
References: <xmv_--WTlvYNMXHyjCJOaeVFpIk2wh6ERe5ktRta_07F8DKLsE4LMpoCdFJQwlghTum1CEzInbJdiz9tlQ3ZlQ==@protonmail.ch>
 <56FB62A5.8050100@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_TtefY8M+NcrH90gkPSC8j3P-ts3goAY=Nd_3J_+M8BA@mail.gmail.com>

Many residential and business ISP's are the same dsl/coax/fiber company.
Many of them will provide extra IP's for some tiny fee, so primary clearnet
use can remain unaffected. Or you can route tor over vpn. Some do run
exits at home. In that case consider contact local LEAs enquiring if
they exonorator / informing them your project.
Find your cyber / crime defense attorney to inform.
And at least consider posting tor-exit-notice on your doors and
clearly segregating your project / personal spaces and activities,
encrypt / index what datasets you have, offsite backups.
Exit issues have become very rare as LEAs have become educated
over the years. Preparation is still better.
After that, being a punk is half the fun and point.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 21:38:42 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:38:42 -0300
Subject: nextdoor.com: Privacy and Datamining Nightmare
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_55-p8-PiU1N3VNNznpOs2m9O--n-r=CiKRPGh+tNZfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_55-p8-PiU1N3VNNznpOs2m9O--n-r=CiKRPGh+tNZfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57009eba.b41b8c0a.f2a60.ffffc8e4@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 00:09:35 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Like Facebook, but worse.

	Isn't evolution amazing? Bad things polish their natures and
	become worse. 

	On the other hand, what does the list of hookers look like?
	They have one, right? 

	And is this yet another 'project' from dan geer and his
	buddies? It sure looks like the kind of thing those pieces of
	shit would 'fund' and promote. 






From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 00:35:56 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:35:56 -0400
Subject: Warrant canaries appear to be usable by large US companies -
 Reddit in this case
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_wXFG0RQT2r66qVCJuNvmaBSW6uYs14pF36kNC2_MXUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> Today, Reddit deleted wording in its
> transparency report that would normally indicate that they had not
> received any "national security letters" or "other classified requests
> for user information." Such "national security...

Some blogs say NSL's are unconstitutional violating:
- the Fourth (are not warrants/subpoenas/orders reviewed signed by judge).
- the First (being extralegal as such, there is no legal prior restraint).
[As if "legal" PR is constitutional in itself.]
>From tens of thousands of NSL's, only maybe three cases
have followed that with courage to fight it. Probably none have
conscientiously object, ie: ignoring and speaking
first instead of asking permission.




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  2 22:35:02 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 05:35:02 +0000
Subject: Warrant canaries appear to be usable by large US companies - Reddit
 in this case
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here and there someone pokes their illogical head up and says "Warrant
canaries can't work" or "warrant canaries will get you introuble with
the law" or some variation on the theme. It boggles me fookin marnd,
it do. Perhaps this story can help massage some of those mental
tensions...


https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/04/01/0321257/reddit-deletes-surveillance-warrant-canary-in-transparency-report

"Reddit Deletes Surveillance 'Warrant Canary' In Transparency Report
>From the deductive-reasoning department
Arthur Dent '99 writes: Today, Reddit deleted wording in its
transparency report that would normally indicate that they had not
received any "national security letters" or "other classified requests
for user information." Such "national security...
"


fooking fook!




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Apr  3 08:19:03 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 08:19:03 -0700
Subject: Warrant canaries appear to be usable by large US companies -
 Reddit in this case
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57013467.8030902@riseup.net>

Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Here and there someone pokes their illogical head up and says "Warrant
> canaries can't work" or "warrant canaries will get you introuble with
> the law" or some variation on the theme. It boggles me fookin marnd,
> it do. Perhaps this story can help massage some of those mental
> tensions...

From what I've read the legal department at reddit isn't really sure
whether it violated the law by killing it's canary.

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

>
> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/04/01/0321257/reddit-deletes-surveillance-warrant-canary-in-transparency-report
>
> "Reddit Deletes Surveillance 'Warrant Canary' In Transparency Report
> >From the deductive-reasoning department
> Arthur Dent '99 writes: Today, Reddit deleted wording in its
> transparency report that would normally indicate that they had not
> received any "national security letters" or "other classified requests
> for user information." Such "national security...
> "
>
>
> fooking fook!
>



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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Apr  2 23:52:46 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 09:52:46 +0300
Subject: nextdoor.com: Privacy and Datamining Nightmare
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_55-p8-PiU1N3VNNznpOs2m9O--n-r=CiKRPGh+tNZfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_55-p8-PiU1N3VNNznpOs2m9O--n-r=CiKRPGh+tNZfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160403065246.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 12:09:35AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> Like Facebook, but worse.


I think bigger problem than the sites is that many more things are
screwed.

One can block sites, but browsers suck probably worse.

On debian 8, "iceweasel about:blank" in a fresh profile sets you a
google cookie. In addition it checks for updates (almost sure from
mozilla.) -- run it from terminal, wait at most few hours and watch
stdout/stderr. Chromium was found to run native code downloaded from
google.

For search engines and the like you are the product (as someone
already said).




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:24:07 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:24:07 -0400
Subject: solutions for source code take downs due to DMCA?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSQDS7S+m49M_7NqHTziDGLDQxmckiUuRigE+2XHgE__A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSR-jtfR5_R1oe1owDHggVwgO1EJqt18Af_fTW5vjp2w2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <4002754.KTskbBlyaO@tanglap>
 <CAOsGNSSQDS7S+m49M_7NqHTziDGLDQxmckiUuRigE+2XHgE__A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_SVcCc-jq0AuioDfU7rv+xM0Mtj5Z2WSLcY6NahRb7FQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/30/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> perhaps tor hidden services are "adequate" for "entertainment
> industry" take downs?

Trackerless bittorrent contained entirely within i2p / tor / phantom
networks works fine. There are some trackers in operation too.
AFAIK nothing related to torrenting multimedia therein has ever
disappeared under suspicion of takedown.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 11:50:43 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:50:43 -0400
Subject: nsa taxis
In-Reply-To: <56fc2f1f.454d370a.46fcd.ffffb8ec@mx.google.com>
References: <56fb253d.cbc3370a.9679a.381d@mx.google.com>
 <CAHBxdkreK-GRqAFnH4cwN6ApLherXmT52LmH5OQpu82vhqx28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKRJQcDniAWHArhoyJn4S8_-WnB8Da6O0fwhuEjFP9KJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56fc2f1f.454d370a.46fcd.ffffb8ec@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-=qXuydNkSGOnXQcsej=rhtadc7dQSi-nCvZ_n7fumcw@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/30/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 	In some ways uber is even more
> 	hostile to a free market than the 'official'
> 	state-licenced(like uber) taxi mafia.

Being "better" at something is easy when the
incumbent player and their strategies are suboptimum.

The current players are angling for lockout, not freedom.

The day you can roll up in your highly peer reviewed
brokeass smoked out flower power Vanagon and blaze
your way to the park from the airport with five execs in
the back, based on a call from an anonymous overlay network
decentral p2p rideshare app complete with aforesaid user reviews...
that's freedom... start coding.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 12:09:18 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:09:18 -0300
Subject: nsa taxis
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-=qXuydNkSGOnXQcsej=rhtadc7dQSi-nCvZ_n7fumcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56fb253d.cbc3370a.9679a.381d@mx.google.com>
 <CAHBxdkreK-GRqAFnH4cwN6ApLherXmT52LmH5OQpu82vhqx28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKRJQcDniAWHArhoyJn4S8_-WnB8Da6O0fwhuEjFP9KJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56fc2f1f.454d370a.46fcd.ffffb8ec@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-=qXuydNkSGOnXQcsej=rhtadc7dQSi-nCvZ_n7fumcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57016ac3.024e370a.1b8ef.1847@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:50:43 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/30/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 	In some ways uber is even more
> > 	hostile to a free market than the 'official'
> > 	state-licenced(like uber) taxi mafia.
> 
> Being "better" at something is easy when the
> incumbent player and their strategies are suboptimum.

	Not only that. Uber is better at centralization and
	corporatism - hardly a virtue.


> 
> The current players are angling for lockout, not freedom.

	Well, of course. I never meant that the current state-licensed
	mafias are free-market heroes. 

> 
> The day you can roll up in your highly peer reviewed
> brokeass smoked out flower power Vanagon and blaze
> your way to the park from the airport with five execs in
> the back, based on a call from an anonymous overlay network
> decentral p2p rideshare app complete with aforesaid user reviews...
> that's freedom... start coding.


	I haven't looked at the current 'state of the art' in
	decentralized markets lately, but some stuff has already been
	coded, no? Problem is, it's not just a matter of coding...


	Also, anonimity and reputation-based systems don't mix well..






From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:13:45 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:13:45 -0400
Subject: nsa taxis
In-Reply-To: <57016ac3.024e370a.1b8ef.1847@mx.google.com>
References: <56fb253d.cbc3370a.9679a.381d@mx.google.com>
 <CAHBxdkreK-GRqAFnH4cwN6ApLherXmT52LmH5OQpu82vhqx28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKRJQcDniAWHArhoyJn4S8_-WnB8Da6O0fwhuEjFP9KJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56fc2f1f.454d370a.46fcd.ffffb8ec@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-=qXuydNkSGOnXQcsej=rhtadc7dQSi-nCvZ_n7fumcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57016ac3.024e370a.1b8ef.1847@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28Z_qgZSU9tW5jUouGmiws-nsHtWq-LHL19WnC=DvFt+w@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 	I haven't looked at the current 'state of the art' in
> 	decentralized markets lately, but some stuff has already been
> 	coded, no? Problem is, it's not just a matter of coding...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet_market#Market_types

openbazaar market + ethereum payments + tor/i2p =
current state of implemented art?

For things to take off... a product / service agnostic market,
anonymous payments, p2p over anonymous overlay nets...
all decentralized, with reputation. All are needed components
for all sorts of free and open commerce to flourish.

> 	Also, anonimity and reputation-based systems don't mix well..

They mix perfectly. Anonymity goes with compartmentalization
and selective exposure of data. You are in control. If you decline
to expose some nonobservable element that others find valuable
to know, that's your choice, and theirs to rate accordingly. Bliss.

In such a reputation enabled digital market, your Real-ID
and whether you ate pancakes or steak for breakfast is
irrelavent to getting me from A to B.
Others might prefer to rate you on the uparmored preventative
safety shell you built into your car vs. seeing money wasted on
your gov-corp mandated insurance docs. Length of service. Etc...
Though [blind] assertions by gov-corp may have value in the market,
the higher reputation market incorporates and weighs any such value
in its "price discovery" process in various ranking categories.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 13:54:32 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:54:32 -0300
Subject: nsa taxis
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28Z_qgZSU9tW5jUouGmiws-nsHtWq-LHL19WnC=DvFt+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56fb253d.cbc3370a.9679a.381d@mx.google.com>
 <CAHBxdkreK-GRqAFnH4cwN6ApLherXmT52LmH5OQpu82vhqx28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9H=iKRJQcDniAWHArhoyJn4S8_-WnB8Da6O0fwhuEjFP9KJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56fc2f1f.454d370a.46fcd.ffffb8ec@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-=qXuydNkSGOnXQcsej=rhtadc7dQSi-nCvZ_n7fumcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57016ac3.024e370a.1b8ef.1847@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti28Z_qgZSU9tW5jUouGmiws-nsHtWq-LHL19WnC=DvFt+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5701836c.064f370a.945b6.28bb@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:13:45 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/3/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 	I haven't looked at the current 'state of the art' in
> > 	decentralized markets lately, but some stuff has already
> > been coded, no? Problem is, it's not just a matter of coding...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet_market#Market_types
> 
> openbazaar market + ethereum payments + tor/i2p =
> current state of implemented art?


	I guess? On the other hand, remailers(to use a classic cpunk
	term) can't be trusted too much (understatement), especially
	tor.

> 
> For things to take off... a product / service agnostic market,
> anonymous payments, p2p over anonymous overlay nets...
> all decentralized, with reputation. All are needed components
> for all sorts of free and open commerce to flourish.

	commerce of physical goods and services has this little problem
	known as delivery...
 

> 
> > 	Also, anonimity and reputation-based systems don't mix
> > well..
> 
> They mix perfectly. 


	Not really. You get the best anonimity when everybody uses the
	same null 'key' and the same nickname, like, I don't know,
	"anonymous coward". Of course, in that case it's impossible to
	attach any reputation to anybody...

	Sure, it may be possible to keep your online reputation not too
	linked to your physical self but doing so is not trivial.



> Anonymity goes with compartmentalization
> and selective exposure of data. You are in control. If you decline
> to expose some nonobservable element that others find valuable
> to know, that's your choice, and theirs to rate accordingly. Bliss.
> 
> In such a reputation enabled digital market, your Real-ID
> and whether you ate pancakes or steak for breakfast is
> irrelavent to getting me from A to B.


	Well, if you are specifically talking about car drivers (and
	passengers) it's pretty obvious that there can be no anonimity. 
	
	Decentralized protocols are still desirable for a number of
	reasons, but they won't solve the underlying political
	problem : the existence of a group of psychos who call
	themselves 'the government'.
 

> Others might prefer to rate you on the uparmored preventative
> safety shell you built into your car vs. seeing money wasted on
> your gov-corp mandated insurance docs. Length of service. Etc...
> Though [blind] assertions by gov-corp may have value in the market,
> the higher reputation market incorporates and weighs any such value
> in its "price discovery" process in various ranking categories.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 18:13:30 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 21:13:30 -0400
Subject: The Panama Papers: The Secrets Of Dirty Money
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>

http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
Fonseca.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 19:50:16 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:50:16 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to leak huge load of data over onions?
In-Reply-To: <1459729889842-d5e5b4d4-40e488b6-3f4618a7@cryptolab.net>
References: <CAKDKvuz2pwuVzBhHm0mgX8Qs67-BWW2Mx+jQCn_UGYw4x5VMtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459162164.30794.14.camel@pentium.freedom.box>
 <5701B45E.5020707@riseup.net>
 <1459729889842-d5e5b4d4-40e488b6-3f4618a7@cryptolab.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_4cLnsn90ir-ajYig-QuX19cbOVmR1TfELfz2nk_is1w@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/16, Griffin Boyce <griffin at cryptolab.net> wrote:
> How do you transmit an elephant? One byte at a time...
>
> But on a serious note, it's possible to transfer 2.6TB over Tor in small
> pieces (such as file by file or via torrent). Given the size, however, I'd
> suspect they mailed hard drives after establishing contact with
> journalists. Even on a fairly fast connection, 2.6TB would take quite a
> while...

That amount of data would take 27 days at 10Mbps.
Few would be willing to sit supervising in a hotseat that long
when they can physically mail 3TB for $100 and 8TB for $230.
Though they might spend 3 days pushing 100Mbps via shells, etc.
Overlay networks move data reasonably well, and reliability
could be handled by chunking protocols. Available link
speeds (thus path speeds) are likely to be limiting factor,
ie: 10Mbps limits you to 100GiB a day. Though at 1Mbps,
DVD torrenting on say I2P seems to be a thing.




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr  3 15:56:19 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 22:56:19 +0000
Subject: Finally, technology and justice come together
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTnXueLed_uG3ePWB-uhTt6bB552gAomQvwGDC=Cy8okA@mail.gmail.com>

Seems we need our government to issue breeding licenses and car cams
to keep a close, and I mean close, eye on everyone.

At least someone is finally putting technology to a good use,
upholding justice, pricking the conscience and delivering some
<ahem>firm, justice.

America, that freedom lovin nation we all love to love. God bless America.


https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/04/02/1938216/oklahoma-video-vigilante-uses-drone-to-wage-war-against-prostitutes-and-johns
"Oklahoma Video Vigilante Uses Drone To Wage War Against Prostitutes and Johns
HughPickens.com writes:
Chris Baraniuk writes at BBC that Brian Bates, known in Oklahoma as
the "Video Vigilante," is taking credit for Amanda Zolicoffer's
conviction on a lewdness charge after being caught on Bates' drone
mounted camera in a sex act in a parked vehicle last year. Zolicoffer
was sentenced to a year in state prison for the misdemeanor while the
case against her alleged client, who was released following arrest in
December, is still pending. "I'm sort of known in the Oklahoma City
area," says Bates . "For the last 20 years I've used a video camera to
document street-level and forced prostitution, and human trafficking."
Bates runs a website where he publishes videos of alleged sex workers
and their clients. "I am openly referred to as a video vigilante, I
don't really shy away from that," says Bates adding that the two
individuals were inside a vehicle and the incident occurred away from
other members of the public. The drone dropped to within a few feet of
the vehicle where it filmed a 75 year old in the front seat of the
white pickup truck. The duo separated after Zolicoffer, who was
identified by her tattoo saying "Baby Gangster," saw the drone
hovering overhead.
"




From seanl at literati.org  Mon Apr  4 10:15:45 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:15:45 -0700
Subject: solutions for source code take downs due to DMCA?
In-Reply-To: <4002754.KTskbBlyaO@tanglap>
References: <CAOsGNSR-jtfR5_R1oe1owDHggVwgO1EJqt18Af_fTW5vjp2w2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <4002754.KTskbBlyaO@tanglap>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-mfZQ1wcBzDTiiJq4phZyhwzZok+M9w37txpN33D4gUgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 4:07 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia sobota, 19 marca 2016 13:04:55 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> > brief github session:
> > (...)
>
> 1. use a centralized, corporate-operated service;
> 2. be surprised when corporate exercises their power based on
> centralisation
>    by taking something down;
> 3. be completely appalled, write an angry blog post or e-mail;
> 4. start using a different centralized service;
> 5. rinse, repeat.
>
> > It seems "we" have yet to design a functional hidden service?
>
> It seems "we" have yet to take our heads out of our asses and stop using
> centralized shit because "it's convenient".


Convenience of the developer is secondary to convenience of the user. If
the user has to take a bunch of extra steps to download or contribute to
your software, your project is far more likely to die of that than it would
be to get taken down on some centralized service.

And even if your software is hosted on some decentralized service, it still
needs to be discoverable in some way. If it's primarily discovered by word
of mouth, some parasite will register a domain and pretend to be the
authoritative host of it, then serve some malware-infested or backdoored
build, if it's even your software at all. That happens even with
centrally-hosted software when the developers don't pay enough attention to
SEO.
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From seanl at literati.org  Mon Apr  4 10:34:47 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:34:47 -0700
Subject: Warrant canaries appear to be usable by large US companies -
 Reddit in this case
In-Reply-To: <57013467.8030902@riseup.net>
References: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <57013467.8030902@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-nDX9ZNeQ_UJ-pC_eN-U5bRucmeF1F141U51dbv56MWzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Here and there someone pokes their illogical head up and says "Warrant
> > canaries can't work" or "warrant canaries will get you introuble with
> > the law" or some variation on the theme. It boggles me fookin marnd,
> > it do. Perhaps this story can help massage some of those mental
> > tensions...
>
> From what I've read the legal department at reddit isn't really sure
> whether it violated the law by killing it's canary.
>
>
Do we know for sure that Reddit deleted the canary because something
happened that killed the canary, rather than because their legal department
decided that the canary was possibly not legal in the first place? One
would think they would simply say that's why they did it if that were the
case, but the fact that they didn't say that is the only evidence I'm aware
of that it's NOT because they decided it was illegal.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Apr  4 00:40:18 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 10:40:18 +0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: The Secrets Of Dirty Money
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
> Fonseca.

What is the main point?

The law is written by the rich for the rich.

I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
and worse stuff.

What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke local
laws and have more virtual money than expected?




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  4 11:09:40 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:09:40 -0700
Subject: Warrant canaries appear to be usable by large US companies -
 Reddit in this case
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-nDX9ZNeQ_UJ-pC_eN-U5bRucmeF1F141U51dbv56MWzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQfR76WrmgOBn6OO1XKKaneqD48nN8SaBmpRvqWMq-KUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <57013467.8030902@riseup.net>
 <CAHKdp-nDX9ZNeQ_UJ-pC_eN-U5bRucmeF1F141U51dbv56MWzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5702ADE4.4070501@riseup.net>

Sean Lynch wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net
> <mailto:Rayzer at riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>     Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>     > Here and there someone pokes their illogical head up and says
>     "Warrant
>     > canaries can't work" or "warrant canaries will get you introuble
>     with
>     > the law" or some variation on the theme. It boggles me fookin marnd,
>     > it do. Perhaps this story can help massage some of those mental
>     > tensions...
>
>     From what I've read the legal department at reddit isn't really sure
>     whether it violated the law by killing it's canary.
>
>
> Do we know for sure that Reddit deleted the canary because something
> happened that killed the canary, rather than because their legal
> department decided that the canary was possibly not legal in the first
> place? One would think they would simply say that's why they did it if
> that were the case, but the fact that they didn't say that is the only
> evidence I'm aware of that it's NOT because they decided it was illegal.


That's a good question and would make an interesting (albeit
one-time-only) defense against being accused of tipping peeps by killing
their canary.

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  4 11:26:26 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:26:26 -0700
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$> <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>

rysiek wrote:
> Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski pisze:
>> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
>>> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
>>> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
>>> Fonseca.
>> What is the main point?
>>
>> The law is written by the rich for the rich.
>>
>> I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
>> and worse stuff.
>>
>> What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke local
>> laws and have more virtual money than expected?
> You're right, none. I suggest you don't read it, ignore it, and hence make 
> your prophecy self-fulfilling. It will give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, 
> I'm sure. :)
>
> For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
> https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
>

About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence agencies
with special thank to the "International Consortium of Investigative
Journalists" (ICIJ), which Pepe Escobar notes is funded by the "Center
for Public Integrity"... IOW:

"...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"


One of his commenters:

"The  Panama Papers are the exact kind of weaponized Psyops posing as an
'activist leak' I wanted to see from Hybrid Warfare."


    THE ULTIMATE LIMITED HANGOUT LEAK

    Put on your Panama hat and dance the leak.

    And if you believe in the integrity of the "International Consortium
    of Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ), I got a made in Shenzhen
    Panama hat to sell ya.

    I never was, and never will be, a member of this racket; well,
    people asked me, and I'm answering.

    The ICIJ gets its cash and its "organizational procedure" via the
    Exceptionalistan-based Center for Public Integrity. The money comes
    from: Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Faimly Fund,
    Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket.

    This alleged most massive leak ever was obtained by - what else - US
    intel.

    But the REAL leak will never be known. Even the uber-pathetic
    Grauniad admitted, on the record, that "much of the leaked material
    will remain private".

    Why? Because it DIRECTLY implicates a gaggle of Western
    0.00000000001% multibillionaires and corporations. All of them play
    the offshore casino game.


https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027375976678
https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027598731678

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  4 12:52:26 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:52:26 -0700
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$> <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu>
 <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:26:26 -0700
> Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> rysiek wrote:
>>> Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski
>>> pisze:
>>>> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>>>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
>>> For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
>>> https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
>>>
>> About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence
>> agencies with special thank to the "International Consortium of
>> Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ),
>
> 	Exactly. 
>
> 	And notice how the morally superior germans (though not as
> 	superior as their masters the aamericunts) are fighting against
> 	the evil icelanders!
>
> 	"a quarter of iceland's cabinet members held offshore
> 	companies" 
>
> 	...which isn't even 'illegal' to start with. 
>
> 		
>


Department of Fear @Twitter put it like this:

    Purpose of #PanamaPapers:
    1. Discredit enemies of the Dept.
    2. Justify increased financial surveillance of the 99% in name of
    nabbing the 1%


https://twitter.com/FearDept/status/716871055738994688

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"









>
>
>> which Pepe Escobar notes is funded
>> by the "Center for Public Integrity"... IOW:
>>
>> "...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
>> Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"
>>
>>
>> One of his commenters:
>>
>> "The  Panama Papers are the exact kind of weaponized Psyops posing as
>> an 'activist leak' I wanted to see from Hybrid Warfare."
>>
>>
>>     THE ULTIMATE LIMITED HANGOUT LEAK
>>
>>     Put on your Panama hat and dance the leak.
>>
>>     And if you believe in the integrity of the "International
>> Consortium of Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ), I got a made in
>> Shenzhen Panama hat to sell ya.
>>
>>     I never was, and never will be, a member of this racket; well,
>>     people asked me, and I'm answering.
>>
>>     The ICIJ gets its cash and its "organizational procedure" via the
>>     Exceptionalistan-based Center for Public Integrity. The money
>> comes from: Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Faimly
>> Fund, Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket.
>>
>>     This alleged most massive leak ever was obtained by - what else -
>> US intel.
>>
>>     But the REAL leak will never be known. Even the uber-pathetic
>>     Grauniad admitted, on the record, that "much of the leaked
>> material will remain private".
>>
>>     Why? Because it DIRECTLY implicates a gaggle of Western
>>     0.00000000001% multibillionaires and corporations. All of them
>> play the offshore casino game.
>>
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027375976678
>> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027598731678
>>
>
>


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  4 14:04:25 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 14:04:25 -0700
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP traffic
Message-ID: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net>

From February this year:

    Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators
    Gabi Nakibly1,3, Jaime Schcolnik2, and Yossi Rubin3

    1 Computer Science Department, Technion, Haifa, Israel
    2Computer Science Department, Interdisciplinary Center, Herzliya,
    Israel
    3Rafael – Advanced Defense Systems, Haifa, Israel


    Over the last few years there have been numerous reports of ISPs
    that alter or proxy their customers’ traffic, including, for
    example, CMA Communications in 2013 [6], Comcast in 2012 [16],
    Mediacom in 2011 [9], WOW! in 2008 [27], and Rogers in 2007 [32].
    Moreover, several extensive studies have brought the details of this
    practice to light [17, 30, 25, 35]. The main motivations of ISPs to
    alter traffic are to facilitate caching, inject advertisements into
    DNS and HTTP error messages, and compress or transcode content.

     All of these reports and studies found that these traffic
    alterations were carried out exclusively by edge ISPs,namely, retail
    ISPs that sell Internet access directly to end customers, and are
    their “first hop” to the Internet. This finding stems from the
    server-centric approach the above studies have taken. In this
    approach, one or a handful of servers are deployed to deliver
    specific content to users, after which a large number of clients are
    solicited to fetch that content from the servers. Finally, an agent
    on the clients – usually a JavaScript delivered by the server itself
    – looks for deviations between the content delivered by the server
    and that displayed to the user. Figure 1(a)illustrates the traffic
    monitored in this server-centric approach.

    Such an approach can be used to inspect the traffic of many clients
    from diverse geographies who are served by different edge ISPs. The
    main disadvantage of this approach is that the content fetched by
    the clients is very specific. All clients fetch the same content
    from the same web servers. This allows only the detection of network
    entities that aim to modify all of the Internet traffic1 of a
    predetermined set of users and are generally oblivious to the actual
    content delivered to the user. Such entities indeed tend to be edge
    ISPs that target only the traffic of their customers.

    In this work we show that the above approach misses a substantial
    portion of the on-path entities that modify traffic on the Internet.
    Using extensive observations over a period of several weeks, we
    analyzed petabits of Internet traffic carrying varied content
    delivered by servers having over 1.5 million distinct IP addresses.
    We newly reveal several network operators that modify traffic not
    limited to a specific set of users. Such network operators alter
    Internet traffic on the basis of its content, primarily by the
    website a user visits. The traffic of every Internet user that
    traverses these network operators is susceptible to alteration."


www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  4 15:07:06 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:07:06 -0700
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702d66d.56a88c0a.f7313.ffffc691@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$> <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu>
 <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
 <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
 <5702d66d.56a88c0a.f7313.ffffc691@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5702E58A.7050902@riseup.net>

juan wrote:
> 	One could argue there's a bit of collateral damage among the
> 	oligarchy. The piece of propaganda that rysiek kindly linked
> 	has a list of evildoers which includes putin...and an
> 	asshole argentine football player. One would wonder why they
> 	are 'making an example' out of this particular guy. I guess
> 	he's not on obomba's team.
>
>


David Cameron's father is in there too.

I've noticed that these sorts of mass unsorted dox dumps often have some
sort of obfuscation angle to them. Just about the time the congressional
Benghazi hearings began someone dumped every damn dox regarding Libya on
the media for publishing. The truth gets lost in the clutter and
ordinary folks who would be interested eyes glaze over. They end up
reinforced in believing what they already 'knew'.

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"



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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 12:44:13 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:44:13 -0400
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28MuuKdgVdynYfwepo1xDQRBkz0brLyEN4k3XvqD_6iAQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> offshore companies
>
> 	...which isn't even 'illegal' to start with.

+1




From me at benmezger.nl  Mon Apr  4 12:11:29 2016
From: me at benmezger.nl (Ben Mezger)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:11:29 -0300
Subject: Is it possible to leak huge load of data over onions?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_4cLnsn90ir-ajYig-QuX19cbOVmR1TfELfz2nk_is1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKDKvuz2pwuVzBhHm0mgX8Qs67-BWW2Mx+jQCn_UGYw4x5VMtg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1459162164.30794.14.camel@pentium.freedom.box> <5701B45E.5020707@riseup.net>
 <1459729889842-d5e5b4d4-40e488b6-3f4618a7@cryptolab.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_4cLnsn90ir-ajYig-QuX19cbOVmR1TfELfz2nk_is1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5702BC61.8020703@benmezger.nl>

It could be possible, though I think they must have done in a different
way. I don't think waiting 27 days is an option, specially for the
source. Freenet has a file-sharing service by default, that could also
have been used. Mailing is an option too, though you have a risk of
loosing the package, so registering would be needed (fucking his
identify). I am really curious about this, since he was not yet caught.

Also what kind of encrypted chat did he have with the journalist? Did
they already have a OTR or something similar? Or did he have to "teach"
them like Snowden had?


On 04/03/2016 11:50 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On 4/3/16, Griffin Boyce <griffin at cryptolab.net> wrote:
>> How do you transmit an elephant? One byte at a time...
>>
>> But on a serious note, it's possible to transfer 2.6TB over Tor in small
>> pieces (such as file by file or via torrent). Given the size, however, I'd
>> suspect they mailed hard drives after establishing contact with
>> journalists. Even on a fairly fast connection, 2.6TB would take quite a
>> while...
> 
> That amount of data would take 27 days at 10Mbps.
> Few would be willing to sit supervising in a hotseat that long
> when they can physically mail 3TB for $100 and 8TB for $230.
> Though they might spend 3 days pushing 100Mbps via shells, etc.
> Overlay networks move data reasonably well, and reliability
> could be handled by chunking protocols. Available link
> speeds (thus path speeds) are likely to be limiting factor,
> ie: 10Mbps limits you to 100GiB a day. Though at 1Mbps,
> DVD torrenting on say I2P seems to be a thing.
> 

-- 
Kind Regards,
Ben Mezger
https://benmezger.nl

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From me at benmezger.nl  Mon Apr  4 12:12:14 2016
From: me at benmezger.nl (Ben Mezger)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:12:14 -0300
Subject: Mossak Fonseca's statement
Message-ID: <5702BC8E.8060406@benmezger.nl>

http://www.scribd.com/doc/306839585/Declaration-de-Mossak-Fonseca-en-anglais

"'Our firm, like many firms, provides worldwide regist
ered agent services for our professional clients (e.g., lawyers, banks,
and trusts) who are intermediaries. As a registered agent we merely help
incorporate companies, and before we agree to work with a client in any
way, we conduct a thorough due-diligence process, one that in every case
meets and quite often exceeds all relevant local rules, regulations and
standards to which we and others are bound.""

-- 
Kind Regards,
Ben Mezger
https://benmezger.nl

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From me at benmezger.nl  Mon Apr  4 12:13:56 2016
From: me at benmezger.nl (Ben Mezger)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:13:56 -0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: The Secrets Of Dirty Money
In-Reply-To: <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <5702BCF4.1030307@benmezger.nl>

Will they at least shut down Panama's offshore?

Here is a full statement by Mossak in English:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/306839585/Declaration-de-Mossak-Fonseca-en-ang
lais

Another question I keep asking myself: how did the source leak this
information? 2.7TB is quite a lot when transferring Online through a
secure channel (and that's is if he transfered online). I am assuming
through Tor it would take quite a lot of time, nevertheless he did a
quite good job, since he was not yet found...

On 04/04/2016 04:40 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
>> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
>> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
>> Fonseca.
> 
> What is the main point?
> 
> The law is written by the rich for the rich.
> 
> I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
> and worse stuff.
> 
> What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke local
> laws and have more virtual money than expected?
> 

-- 
Kind Regards,
Ben Mezger
https://benmezger.nl

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 12:28:25 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 16:28:25 -0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
 'limited hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:26:26 -0700
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> rysiek wrote:
> > Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski
> > pisze:
> >> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> >>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/

> > For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
> > https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
> >
> 
> About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence
> agencies with special thank to the "International Consortium of
> Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ),


	Exactly. 

	And notice how the morally superior germans (though not as
	superior as their masters the aamericunts) are fighting against
	the evil icelanders!

	"a quarter of iceland's cabinet members held offshore
	companies" 

	...which isn't even 'illegal' to start with. 

		




> which Pepe Escobar notes is funded
> by the "Center for Public Integrity"... IOW:
> 
> "...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
> Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"
> 
> 
> One of his commenters:
> 
> "The  Panama Papers are the exact kind of weaponized Psyops posing as
> an 'activist leak' I wanted to see from Hybrid Warfare."
> 
> 
>     THE ULTIMATE LIMITED HANGOUT LEAK
> 
>     Put on your Panama hat and dance the leak.
> 
>     And if you believe in the integrity of the "International
> Consortium of Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ), I got a made in
> Shenzhen Panama hat to sell ya.
> 
>     I never was, and never will be, a member of this racket; well,
>     people asked me, and I'm answering.
> 
>     The ICIJ gets its cash and its "organizational procedure" via the
>     Exceptionalistan-based Center for Public Integrity. The money
> comes from: Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Faimly
> Fund, Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket.
> 
>     This alleged most massive leak ever was obtained by - what else -
> US intel.
> 
>     But the REAL leak will never be known. Even the uber-pathetic
>     Grauniad admitted, on the record, that "much of the leaked
> material will remain private".
> 
>     Why? Because it DIRECTLY implicates a gaggle of Western
>     0.00000000001% multibillionaires and corporations. All of them
> play the offshore casino game.
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027375976678
> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027598731678
> 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 13:12:01 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:12:01 -0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
 'limited hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
 <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5702caf4.064a370a.22d43.ffffc9ef@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:52:26 -0700
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:


> 
> 
> Department of Fear @Twitter put it like this:
> 
>     Purpose of #PanamaPapers:
>     1. Discredit enemies of the Dept.
>     2. Justify increased financial surveillance of the 99% in name of
>     nabbing the 1%
> 

	Indeed.


> 
> https://twitter.com/FearDept/status/716871055738994688
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 14:00:58 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 18:00:58 -0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
 'limited hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
 <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5702d66d.56a88c0a.f7313.ffffc691@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 12:52:26 -0700
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:


> 
> 
> Department of Fear @Twitter put it like this:
> 
>     Purpose of #PanamaPapers:
>     1. Discredit enemies of the Dept.
>     2. Justify increased financial surveillance of the 99% in name of
>     nabbing the 1%
> 

	One could argue there's a bit of collateral damage among the
	oligarchy. The piece of propaganda that rysiek kindly linked
	has a list of evildoers which includes putin...and an
	asshole argentine football player. One would wonder why they
	are 'making an example' out of this particular guy. I guess
	he's not on obomba's team.




> 
> https://twitter.com/FearDept/status/716871055738994688
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 15:38:40 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 19:38:40 -0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
 'limited hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702E58A.7050902@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
 <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
 <5702d66d.56a88c0a.f7313.ffffc691@mx.google.com>
 <5702E58A.7050902@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5702ed59.524a370a.ae2e2.ffffd6b9@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 15:07:06 -0700
Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> juan wrote:
> > 	One could argue there's a bit of collateral damage among the
> > 	oligarchy. The piece of propaganda that rysiek kindly linked
> > 	has a list of evildoers which includes putin...and an
> > 	asshole argentine football player. One would wonder why they
> > 	are 'making an example' out of this particular guy. I guess
> > 	he's not on obomba's team.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> David Cameron's father is in there too.


	Hm. That one may be a bit harder to explain. 'Plausible
	deniability' maybe? As in "See? We are not (completely)
	biased". Also, the best propaganda has a % of truth mixed in.


> 
> I've noticed that these sorts of mass unsorted dox dumps often have
> some sort of obfuscation angle to them. Just about the time the
> congressional Benghazi hearings began someone dumped every damn dox
> regarding Libya on the media for publishing. The truth gets lost in
> the clutter 

	
	Yes, I was thinking about that too. How much damaging
	information could, say, a 100 kb text file contain? My guess is
	a lot. 
	
	On the other hand, having terabytes of raw data that need to be
	somehow analyzed isn't as effective. 

	But, truth be told, having access to the raw data is a good
	thing (assuming it hasn't been tampered with...)


> and ordinary folks who would be interested eyes glaze
> over. They end up reinforced in believing what they already 'knew'.
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Apr  4 10:39:01 2016
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2016 19:39:01 +0200
Subject: The Panama Papers: The Secrets Of Dirty Money
In-Reply-To: <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> > http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
> > The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
> > offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
> > Fonseca.
> 
> What is the main point?
> 
> The law is written by the rich for the rich.
> 
> I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
> and worse stuff.
> 
> What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke local
> laws and have more virtual money than expected?

You're right, none. I suggest you don't read it, ignore it, and hence make 
your prophecy self-fulfilling. It will give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, 
I'm sure. :)

For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr  4 16:28:02 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 23:28:02 +0000
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSg4m8n91gmuRNb_5C=srsJAyZQ6cLNf+FzQLcGENZaQw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> rysiek wrote:
>> Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski pisze:
>>> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
>>>> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
>>>> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
>>>> Fonseca.
>>> What is the main point?
>>>
>>> The law is written by the rich for the rich.

>> For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
>> https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
>
> About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence agencies
> with special thank to the "International Consortium of Investigative
> Journalists" (ICIJ), which Pepe Escobar notes is funded by the "Center
> for Public Integrity"... IOW:
>
> "...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
> Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"

When something 'problematic' (e.g. leaking) becomes a thing, master
that thing, be that thing.

Have control, you will.

Croaky voice, have you.

Weak underbellies, sure up, you will.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 21:04:56 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 00:04:56 -0400
Subject: NSL AmA with ACLU and CALYX
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_Kn8upf5XG7_ryJ9ZYgt+aqeL8C7spbEcVLaa3F3T25A@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4dcm55/we_are_aclu_lawyers_and_nick_merrill_of_calyx/




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr  4 20:13:06 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 03:13:06 +0000
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Instead of wondering which billionaire will finally reach out a hand
to raise us up, we should stop waiting and start acting."

Chart attached, and youtube video (see below) might be worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig


----
http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant-trump-trump-trump/

I Know Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
Apr 1, 2016By Jonna Ivin
BW_man	
>From the era of slavery to the rise of Donald Trump, wealthy elites
have relied on the loyalty of poor whites. All Americans deserve
better.

  I’m just a poor white trash motherfucker. No one cares about me.

I met the man who said those words while working as a bartender in the
Ozark Mountains of northwest Arkansas. It was a one-street town in
Benton County. It had a beauty parlor, a gas station, and a bar where
locals came on Friday nights to shoot the shit over cheap drinks and
country music. I arrived in Arkansas by way of another little town in
Louisiana, where all but a few local businesses had boarded up when
Walmart moved in. In Arkansas, I was struggling to survive. I served
drinks in the middle of the afternoon to people described as America’s
“white underclass (
http://www.counterpunch.org/2009/07/17/america-s-white-underclass/ )”
— in other words, people just like me.

Across the highway from the bar was the trailer park where I lived. I
bought my trailer for $1000, and it looked just like you would imagine
a trailer that cost $1000 would look. There was a big hole in the
ceiling, and parts of the floor were starting to crumble under my
feet. It leaned to one side, and the faint odor of death hung around
the bathroom. No doubt a squirrel or a rat had died in the walls. I
told myself that once the flesh was gone, dissolved into the
nothingness, the smell would go away, but it never did. Maybe that’s
what vermin ghosts smell like.

I loved that trailer. Sitting in a ratty brown La-Z-Boy, I would look
around my tin can and image all the ways I could paint the walls in
shades of possibility. I loved it for the simple reason that it was
the first and only home I have ever owned.

My trailer was parked in the middle of Walmart country, which is also
home to J.B. Hunt Transportation, Glad Manufacturing, and Tyson
Chicken. There is a whole lot of money in that pocket of Arkansas, but
the grand wealth casts an oppressive shadow over a region entrenched
in poverty. Executive mansions line the lakefronts and golf courses.
On the other side of Country Club Road, trailer parks are tucked back
in the woods. The haves and have-nots rarely share the same view, with
one exception: politics. Benton County has been among the most
historically conservative counties in Arkansas. The last Democratic
president Benton County voted for was Harry S. Truman, in 1948.

There is an unavoidable question about places like Benton County, a
question many liberals have tried to answer for years now: Why do poor
whites vote along the same party lines as their wealthy neighbors
across the road? Isn’t that against their best interests?

Ask a Republican, and they’ll probably say conservatives are united by
shared positions on moral issues: family values, religious freedom,
the right to life, the sanctity of marriage, and, of course, guns.

Ask a Democrat the same question, and they might mention white
privilege, but they’re more likely to describe conservatives as
racist, sexist, homophobic gun nuts who believe Christianity should be
the national religion.

But what if those easy answers are two sides of the same political
coin, a coin that keeps getting hurled back and forth between the two
parties without ever shedding light on the real, more complicated
truth?

  I’m just a poor white trash motherfucker. No one
  cares about me.

What if he’s right?

• • •

People want to be heard. They want to believe their voices matter. A
January 2016 survey by the Rand Corporation reported that Republican
primary voters are 86.5 percent more likely to favor Donald Trump if
they “somewhat agree” or “strongly agree” with the statement, “People
like me don’t have any say about what the government does.”

What is it about a flamboyant millionaire that appeals to poor white
conservatives? Why do they believe a Trump presidency would amplify
their voices? The answer may lie in America’s historical relationship
between the wealthiest class and the army of poor whites who have
loyally supported them.

>From the time of slavery (yes, slavery) to the rise of Donald Trump,
wealthy elites have relied on the allegiance of the white underclass
to retain their affluence and political power. To understand this
dynamic, to see through the eyes of poor and working class whites as
they chant, “Trump, Trump, Trump,” let’s look back at a few unsavory
slices of America’s capitalist pie.


Until the first African slaves were brought to Jamestown, Virginia, in
1619, wealthy plantation owners relied on indentured servants for
cheap labor. These white servants were mostly poor Europeans who
traded their freedom for passage to the American colonies. They were
given room and board, and, after four to seven years of grueling
servitude, freedom.

About 40 percent lived long enough to see the end of their contract.
Colonial law provided “freedom dues,” which usually included 100 acres
of land, a small sum of money, and a new suit of clothes. Yet some
freed servants didn’t know what was due them, and they were swindled
out of their land grants. With no resources and nowhere to go, many
walked to regions where land could still be homesteaded, and settled
in remote areas such as the Appalachian Mountains.

As the British labor market improved in the 1680s, the idea of
indentured servitude lost its appeal to many would-be immigrants.
Increasing demand for indentured servants, many of whom were skilled
laborers, soon bumped up against a dwindling supply, and the cost of
white indentured servants rose sharply. Plantation owners kept skilled
white servants, of course, often making them plantation managers and
supervisors of slaves. This introduced the first racial divide between
skilled and unskilled workers.

Still, African slaves were cheaper, and the supply was plentiful.
Seeing an opportunity to realize a higher return on investment, elite
colonial landowners began to favor African slaves over white
indentured servants, and shifted their business models accordingly.
They trained slaves to take over the skilled jobs of white servants.

An investment in African slaves also ensured a cost-effective,
long-term workforce. Female slaves were often raped by their white
owners or forced to breed with male slaves, and children born into
slavery remained slaves for life. In contrast, white female servants
who became pregnant were often punished with extended contracts,
because a pregnancy meant months of lost work time. From a business
perspective, a white baby was a liability, but African children were
permanent assets.

As the number of African slaves grew, landowners realized they had a
problem on their hands. Slave owners saw white servants living,
working, socializing, and even having babies with African slaves.
Sometimes they tried to escape together. What’s more, freed white
servants who received land as part of their freedom dues had begun to
complain about its poor quality. This created a potentially explosive
situation for landowners, as oppressed workers quickly outnumbered the
upper classes. What was to prevent freed whites, indentured servants,
and African slaves from joining forces against the tyranny of their
masters?

As Edmund S. Morgan says in his book American Slavery, American
Freedom, “The answer to the problem, obvious if unspoken and only
gradually recognized, was racism, to separate dangerous free whites
from dangerous slave blacks by a screen of racial contempt.”

Many slave owners in both the North and South were also political
leaders. Soon, they began to pass laws that stipulated different
treatment of white indentured servants, newly freed white men, and
African slaves. No white indentured servant could be beaten while
naked, but an African slave could. Any free white man could whip a
Black slave, and most important, poor whites could “police” Black
slaves. These new laws gave poor whites another elevation in status
over their Black peers. It was a slow but effective process, and with
the passing of a few generations, any bond that indentured servants
shared with African slaves was permanently severed.

As slavery expanded in the South and indentured servitude declined,
the wealthy elite offered poor whites the earliest version of the
American Dream: if they worked hard enough, they could achieve
prosperity, success, and upward social mobility — if not for
themselves, then perhaps for future generations.

But few realized that dream. In “The Whiting of Euro-Americans: A
Divide and Conquer Strategy,” the Rev. Dr. Thandeka notes:

  "Not surprisingly, however, poor whites never became the economic
equals of the elite. Though both groups’ economic status rose, the gap
between the wealthy and poor widened as a result of slave
productivity. Thus, poor whites’ belief that they now shared status
and dignity with their social betters was largely illusory."

With whites and Blacks divided, the wealthy elite prospered enormously
for the next two hundred years while poor whites remained locked in
poverty. With the potential election of Abraham Lincoln, however, the
upper class began to worry they would lose their most valuable
commodity: slave labor. The numbers were not on their side — not the
financial numbers, but the number of bodies it would take to wage war
should Lincoln try to abolish slavery. And it was white male bodies
they needed. (Poor women were of little value to the rich, since they
couldn’t vote or fight in a war.) So how did wealthy plantation owners
convince poor white males to fight for a “peculiar institution” that
did not benefit them?

Religious and political leaders began using a combination of fear,
sex, and God to paint a chilling picture of freed angry Black men
ravaging the South. Rev. Richard Furman stated,

  "… every Negro in South Carolina and every other Southern state will
be his own master; nay, more than that, will be the equal of every one
of you. If you are tame enough to submit, abolition preachers will be
at hand to consummate the marriage of your daughters to black
husbands."

Another warning from Georgia Commissioner Henry Benning to the
Virginia legislature predicted,

  "War will break out everywhere like hidden fire from the earth. We
will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like
vagabonds all over the earth, and as for our women, the horrors of
their state we cannot contemplate in imagination. We will be
completely exterminated and the land will be left in the possession of
the blacks, and then it will go back to a wilderness and become
another Africa or Saint Domingo."

Wealthy plantation owners had succeeded in separating the two races,
and they now planted a fear of Blacks in the minds of poor and working
white men. Enslaved Blacks were an asset to the wealthy, but freed
Blacks were portrayed as a danger to all. By creating this common
enemy among rich and poor alike, the wealthy elite sent a clear
message: fight with us against abolitionists and you will remain safe.

It worked. Poor and working class whites signed up by the hundreds of
thousands to fight for what they believed was their way of life.
Meanwhile, many of the wealthy planters who benefitted economically
from slavery were granted exemptions from military service and avoided
the horrors of battle. On both sides of the Mason-Dixon line, wealthy
elites were allowed to pay other men to take their place on the bloody
battlefields. As the war lingered on, poor whites in the North and
South began to realize the rich had waged the war, but it was the poor
who were dying in it.

I’m just a poor white trash motherfucker. No one cares about me.

With more than 650,000 deaths, the end of the Civil War eventually
brought freedom for African-Americans. But after the war, ex-slaves
were left to linger and die in a world created by those in the North
who no longer cared and those in the South who now resented their
existence. Poor whites didn’t fare much better. Without land,
property, or hope for economic gains, many freed Blacks and returning
white soldiers turned to sharecropping and found themselves once again
working side by side, dependent on wealthy landowners.

• • •

During the Reconstruction Era, the press continued to spread “black
men raping white women” propaganda. Again, this was intended to
prevent poor whites and poor Blacks from joining forces. As Ida B.
Wells wrote in her 1892 pamphlet, Southern Horrors: Lynch Law in All
Its Phases:

  "The editorial in question was prompted by the many inhuman and
fiendish lynchings of Afro-Americans which have recently taken place
and was meant as a warning. Eight lynched in one week and five of them
charged with rape! The thinking public will not easily believe freedom
and education more brutalizing than slavery, and the world knows that
the crime of rape was unknown during four years of civil war when the
white women of the South were at the mercy of the race which is all at
once charged with being a bestial one."

This fear and mistrust continued for decades, not just in the South,
but throughout all of America. From the factories of industrialized
cities in the North to rural farmlands in the Midwest, from the Statue
of Liberty in the East to the filmmakers in the West, racism had
replaced classism as the most blatant form of oppression. But classism
lingered, despite what wealthy elites would have Americans believe.

Martin Luther King Jr. saw the enduring oppression of both poor whites
and Blacks. In December 1967, King and the Southern Christian
Leadership Conference (SCLC) began organizing the Poor People’s
Campaign of 1968. According to Rev. Dr. Ralph Abernathy, the
campaign’s goal was to “dramatize the plight of America’s poor of all
races and make very clear that they are sick and tired of waiting for
a better life.”

King alluded to that goal when he spoke about wealth inequality in
“The Drum Major Instinct” on February 4, 1968. In his sermon, he
talked about a conversation with his white jailers, saying:

  "And then we got down one day to the point — that was the second or
third day — to talk about where they lived, and how much they were
earning. And when those brothers told me what they were earning, I
said, “Now, you know what? You ought to be marching with us. You’re
just as poor as Negroes.” And I said, “You are put in the position of
supporting your oppressor, because, through prejudice and blindness,
you fail to see that the same forces that oppress Negroes in American
society oppress poor white people. And all you are living on is the
satisfaction of your skin being white, and the drum major instinct of
thinking that you are somebody big because you are white. And you’re
so poor you can’t send your children to school. You ought to be out
here marching with every one of us every time we have a march.”

  "Now that’s a fact. That the poor white has been put into this
position, where through blindness and prejudice, he is forced to
support his oppressors. And the only thing he has going for him is the
false feeling that he’s superior because his skin is white — and can’t
hardly eat and make his ends meet week in and week out."

The first Poor People’s Campaign gathering took place in Atlanta in
March 1968, and included more than fifty multiracial organizations
committed to the radical redistribution of political and economic
power.

When King was assassinated just a month later on April 4, the SCLC and
King’s widow, Coretta Scott, decided to go ahead with the campaign. On
Mother’s Day, May 12, thousands of women formed the first wave of
demonstrators, led by Coretta Scott King and joined by Ethel Kennedy,
wife of presidential candidate Sen. Robert Kennedy. Protestors built a
temporary encampment on the Mall in Washington, D.C., and 3,000
participants occupied “Resurrection City” for over a month. In June,
50,000 demonstrators joined them for the Solidarity Day Rally for
Jobs, Peace, and Freedom. SCLC leaders and the National Welfare Rights
Organization lobbied Congress to introduce an “economic bill of
rights” for all Americans.

 image - Poor People's Campaign
 Demonstrators on the National Mall. Oliver F. Atkins Photograph
Collection. Photo © SEPS

Robert Kennedy, a key advocate for the campaign, was assassinated on
June 6, 1968, a month into the campaign. His funeral procession passed
through Resurrection City. Discouraged by the murders of King and
Kennedy, scarce media coverage, and horrible living conditions in the
camp, demonstrators’ optimism waned. Their land use permit expired on
June 24, and Resurrection City closed. When the Poor People’s Campaign
ended, so ended King’s vision of turning the nation’s attention to
eradicating poverty among all people, and guaranteeing all people the
opportunity for meaningful jobs with livable wages.



The minimum wage for a tipped position in Arkansas — like the one I
held as a bartender — is $2.63 an hour. The assumption is that tipped
workers will earn their own minimum wages by making up the difference
in tips. When this happens, a “tip credit” is given to employers, and
they save money by paying less than the standard minimum wage.

It was the way I spoke that landed me the job. I had no experience,
but the owner of the bar told a friend she hired me because, “she
speaks well and has all her own teeth.” I guess she assumed I would
learn to make drinks. I didn’t. I wasn’t very good at my job, but one
thing I was good at was listening. And what I often heard was a
growing dissatisfaction among poor whites who were struggling to make
ends meet in the failing economy.

I understood their fear and frustration. I’ve spent a great deal of my
life living in poverty. It’s scary being poor, worrying that one
parking ticket would mean I couldn’t buy groceries, or deciding
whether I should see a dentist about a toothache or pay my trailer
park fee. It’s humiliating and terrifying, but sitting around and
crying about it isn’t an option because we know that the only thing
more pathetic than someone living in poverty is someone living in
poverty and crying about it. How many times have we been told to get a
job, or that if we just worked harder we could improve our situation?
Work harder. Work harder. Work harder. American society has made it
perfectly clear: if you are poor, it’s your own damn fault.

I understood what it was to go hungry. Many times I didn’t eat on my
days off, but waited until I could get back to work and sneak
something from the kitchen. Remember that tip credit? I did, too,
every time I stole a biscuit with gravy or a basket of tater tots.

I understood their anger. Since crying isn’t an option, we swallow the
sadness, and it sits and churns and gets spit back out as anger. I’ve
felt this anger more times than I care to remember. I was angry that I
couldn’t afford to paint my walls in shades of possibility. I was
angry at my life choices that never felt like real choices. I was
angry that wealth and prosperity were all around me while my hands
remained clenched in empty pockets.

What I couldn’t understand was why my customers directed their anger
at other poor people.

“I applied for a job at Tyson Chicken. They only hire Mexicans because
they work cheap. We need to get those people out if we want jobs.”

I heard this over and over from unemployed men at the bar. So why
weren’t they angry with Tyson Foods, a company that could easily
afford to pay higher wages? Why weren’t they angry with CEO-turned
Chairman John Tyson, whose personal net worth is over a billion
dollars?

The answer I always got was that John’s father, Donald “Don” J. Tyson,
the college drop-out who built his own father’s chicken farm into a
multi-billion-dollar company, was a good ol’ boy. He wasn’t
highfalutin like the city slickers of California and New York. Tyson,
they felt, was one of them, a working class man who’d bootstrapped his
way into the top one percent. He wore a khaki uniform with his name
embroidered over the pocket, spoke with an “aw shucks” southern twang
and was often quoted as saying, “I’m just a chicken farmer.”

 image - Don Tyson
 Donald J. Tyson

Don Tyson wasn’t just a chicken farmer, much like the plantation
owners weren’t just cotton growers. He was a multi-billionaire running
a global corporation. Didn’t they know that in 1997, Tyson Foods pled
guilty and paid $6 million in fines and costs for making gifts to Mike
Espy, then President Bill Clinton’s secretary of agriculture? Didn’t
they know that, from 1988 to 1990, Bill Clinton gave Tyson Foods $7.8
million in tax breaks while turning a blind eye to 300 miles of rivers
polluted from chicken waste? Maybe they didn’t know those things, but
what they did know was that poor Mexicans were taking their jobs.

Over the years, Tyson Foods has settled numerous lawsuits, paying
millions of dollars for infractions ranging from water pollution, race
discrimination, and sex discrimination, as well as a $32 million wage
settlement case.

“The Mexican guys just hire other Mexicans. You can’t even work there
if you don’t speak Spanish.”

Were they right? I would say yes.

In December 2001, a federal grand jury indicted Tyson Foods and six
managers on 36 counts related to conspiring to import undocumented
workers into the U.S., and employing them at fifteen chicken
processing plants throughout the country. One defendant shot himself a
few months after the indictment. Two made plea agreements and
testified for the government. They said they were doing what the
company demanded when they went along with the hiring of illegal
workers. The remaining three executives claimed the others were
“rogue” employees, and denied any knowledge of wrongdoing; they were
acquitted.

The grand jury alleged that the conspiracy began in 1994, when Tyson
executive Gerald Lankford mentioned production at a Tennessee facility
and said, “That plant needs more Mexicans.”

There was no question that Tyson illegally smuggled undocumented
workers into the U.S. The trial was about who initiated the operation.
Regardless of who knew what, at least three managers at Tyson saw that
brown workers were cheaper than white workers, and adjusted their
business model accordingly.

• • •

It makes perfect sense that Don Tyson would say, “My theory about
politics is that if they will just leave me alone, we’ll do just
fine.” What didn’t make sense to me was that poor and working class
locals would agree with him.

Don Tyson, having lived his entire life in northwest Arkansas, was one
of them. I wasn’t. I was born and raised in California. Sure, my
people were blue-collar rednecks and my mother often reminded me that
we were one generation removed from poor white trash, but I wasn’t
Southern and I didn’t speak their language. My speech pattern wasn’t
formed by higher education or a silver spoon in my mouth; it was
simply a matter of accent. But it is an accent associated with liberal
snobs. I was an outsider.

Don Tyson didn’t make poor people in town feel inferior, but outsiders
did. I’m not surprised, considering how socially acceptable it has
become to mock poor whites, especially those born and raised in the
South. Instead of fighting for better education for the white
underclass, we call them ignorant rednecks. Instead of fighting for
them to have better health care, we laugh at their missing teeth.
Instead of fighting for them to have better housing, we joke about
tornados hitting trailer parks.

Luckily, life often has a way of turning stereotypes on their heads,
if we pay attention.

 “It has become socially acceptable to mock poor whites born and
raised in the South.”

I was working my day shift at the bar, the same regulars sitting on
the same barstools. Three men I’d never seen came in and sat at a
table on the patio. They looked like most everyone else in the area,
blue-collar scruffy types. I figured they were on a lunch break or
they were in town to fish on the lake. I took their order, brought
their food, and when they finished eating, dropped off the check. When
they came up to the register to pay, one of the men made a comment
about my hat. I didn’t catch what he said but his friends smirked.

I said, “Excuse me?”

My hat was a black and white newsboy cap. It covered my head on days I
didn’t feel like doing my hair. But to the man, it meant something
else, something I didn’t understand.

He said, “I guess you like ‘em black.”

I said, “My hat?”

I was confused and I felt tension in the air. The bar had gone quiet.
One of my regulars was sitting near the register, and he asked the man
if he was from a particular town, one I hadn’t heard of. When the man
nodded, my regular said, “Well, we don’t roll like that around here.”

I handed the man his change. He glanced around at the regulars staring
at him. It felt like a stand-off in an old western movie. Was a brawl
about to break out over my hat? The man shook his head, looked at me
in disgust, and walked out with his friends. The tension left with
them.

I asked, “What the hell was that all about?”

“They’re Klan,” my customer said. I must have looked shocked. He said,
“Don’t worry. We got your back.”

A few months later, I left Arkansas and moved to Vancouver,
Washington. Across the river in Portland, they call it “Vantucky.” I
always dreaded driving into Portland with my big F150 truck sporting
Arkansas plates. I imagined the liberal urbanites seeing me as one of
“those people,” as if they expected me to barrel down the street
chucking Walmart bags full of trash out the open window while blasting
“Sweet Home Alabama” on my way to shoot up an abortion clinic. This
was all in my head, but in a city known for its liberalism, I once
again felt I didn’t belong.

I signed up for training to be a court appointed special advocate
(CASA) for kids in foster care, and attended a series of classes in
Vancouver. One night, the instructors gathered the forty or so
trainees for an exercise. We stood in a room and the leader of the
group read a list of statements. Without speaking, we were to cross to
the other side if the statement applied to us or stay in our place if
it didn’t. As the exercise went on, I started to notice a pattern.

“I’ve been affected by a family member’s drug or alcohol problem.” I
crossed the room with a third of the volunteers.

“I’ve been affected by poverty.” I crossed the room with a tiny
fraction of volunteers.

“I’ve graduated with a degree in higher education.” I stayed in my
place as all but one woman crossed to the other side. The woman stood
next to me and held my arm, and I immediately sized her up: older,
well-dressed, probably married right out of high school. Privileged.

It was an exercise in non-judgment — and it was humiliating. Not a
single person looked at us. Their eyes focused on the floor, their
hands, or something incredibly interesting on the ceiling. I suppose
it was the polite, non-judgmental thing to do. If something or someone
makes us uncomfortable, we simply avert our eyes and create an
invisible barrier. You stay over there. I’ll stay over here.

Those two experiences helped me see more clearly than ever how
fool-headed it is to stereotype people based on how they look and
where they live. The “redneck hillbillies” in that Arkansas bar could
have laughed with the three Klan members, or said nothing at all.
Instead, they stood up for me — an outsider — and made it known that
the Klan wasn’t welcome there. On the other hand, I assumed a group of
liberal, college-educated volunteers would ooze warmth and solidarity.
But in class that night, I didn’t feel especially welcome. And I felt
ashamed for judging that woman’s life based entirely on her
appearance.

I’m just a poor white trash motherfucker. No one cares about me.

What would America look like today if King had succeeded in uniting
poor people of all races? Would my bar customers in Arkansas more
easily identify with Blacks, Hispanics, and other people of color than
with billionaires like Don Tyson? Would they feel as if their voices
mattered, as if they had some say in what their government does?



Martin Luther King Jr. was concerned about poverty, and he also saw
the growing inequality between the richest Americans and the poor and
working classes. By the 1960s, this inequality was on the rise, but
would soon become much more pronounced.

In 1976 — just eight years after King’s call for unity among all poor
people — Ronald Reagan launched his second unsuccessful bid for the
Republican presidential nomination. In his campaign, he repeatedly
trotted out the now infamous “Welfare Queen” story.

Reagan got the GOP nod in 1980, and during his presidential campaign,
he portrayed himself as a grandfatherly, all-American cowboy, a true
Washington outsider. He promised to fix the economy with a combination
of tax breaks, reduced government regulation, and cuts to federal
programs.

Reagan’s economic plan, dubbed “Reaganomics,” provided tax cuts that
primarily benefitted the rich. The intent was to encourage the upper
classes to spend and invest more, which would boost the economy and
create new jobs. His disdain for welfare hadn’t changed. To offset tax
cuts and massive increases in military spending, Reagan slashed
federal social programs — for low-income Americans.

Neither Reagan nor Congress was willing to touch Social Security,
Medicare, or Medicaid; they were too popular among the middle class.
This left a tiny portion of the federal budget for social programs on
the chopping block, including food stamps, vocational education, and
subsidized housing, among others. From fiscal year 1980 to fiscal year
1987, federal funding for these programs plummeted by 35.6 percent.

After a two-year recession, the economy rebounded and continued to
grow. Yet while the Reagan administration congratulated themselves on
the economic expansion, poor people were still struggling. But Reagan
had given poor whites someone to blame for their suffering: the
Welfare Queen. He never said she was Black. He didn’t have to.

Lee Atwater was an adviser to both Reagan and President George H. W.
Bush, and chairman of the Republican National Committee from 1989
until his death two years later. In 1981, while working in Reagan’s
White House, Atwater gave an interview to Alexander Lamis, a political
scientist at Case Western Reserve University. In an unguarded moment
that Atwater believed was off the record, he said:

  "You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968
you can’t say “nigger” — that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff
like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and
you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes,
and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things
and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We
want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing,
uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.” "

In five short sentences, Atwater explained how Republican politicians
could appeal to poor whites’ racism (conscious or unconscious) without
using blatantly racist language. This shift was important because
Reagan had cut social programs that began with the presidencies of
John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson.
 “Republican politicians appealed to poor whites’ racism without using
blatantly racist language.”

In 1963, President John Kennedy had begun planning a “war on poverty”
intended to help poor, southern whites — particularly in Appalachia
and the rural South. Kennedy had visited Appalachia during the 1960
presidential campaign, and was shocked by what he saw — ”the hungry
children, … the old people who cannot pay their doctors bills, the
families forced to give up their farms.” Many of these families were
descendants of white indentured servants who had fled to the
Appalachian Mountains. The poverty Kennedy saw was, in part, a legacy
of the era of slavery.

President Johnson, a greater ally to Black civil rights leaders than
Kennedy had been, took over the program after Kennedy’s assassination
and expanded its scope. These programs ultimately helped poor Blacks
and poor whites, in both urban and rural areas.

In 1987, Reagan quipped, “In the 60s we waged a war on poverty, and
poverty won.” That was pretty glib for a President who had just
slashed social services by almost 36 percent. What was to keep poor
whites from seeing they had lost just as much as poor Blacks?

The groundwork had already been laid. It wasn’t Reagan’s fault that
social programs had to be cut. The “welfare queens” made him do it.
Poor whites were still poorer, but at least they weren’t criminals,
and that distinction was critical in their minds.

“It’s one of those persistent symbols that come up every election
cycle,” says Kaaryn Gustafson, author of Cheating Welfare: Public
Assistance and the Criminalization of Poverty. “This image of the lazy
African-American woman who refuses to get a job and keeps having kids
is pretty enduring. It’s always been a good way to distract the public
from any meaningful conversations about poverty and inequality.”

Gustafson’s inclusion of inequality is important, because inequalities
in both income and wealth distribution would soon begin a steep climb.
The reality of Reaganomics was that Americans who gained the most were
the nation’s richest ten percent. During periods of economic
expansion, the bottom 90 percent saw a decline in income gains. By
2012, those gains had been replaced by losses.

 image - wealth_chart - see attachment

In hindsight, it makes perfect sense that President Reagan would share
Don Tyson’s desire for smaller government. In 1986, Reagan said, “The
most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the
government and I’m here to help.” What doesn’t make sense is that
America’s white underclass would agree with him.

Public assistance programs are easy targets for politicians, thanks in
part to the racial divide introduced by slave owners in colonial
America. Politicians, the corporate media, and giant employers (like
Tyson) have continued to drive socioeconomic wedges between poor
whites and poor minorities. Working class whites may view economic
struggles as temporary setbacks, and see their use of social services
as a last resort. But politicians keep implying that for minorities,
public assistance is a way of life.

Many social programs — the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program
(SNAP), Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Women, Infants
and Children (WIC) — provide benefits that cannot be abused. Yet the
message to the white underclass was clear: your tax dollars are being
squandered on undeserving people looking for a free ride.

I can’t speak to how much assistance people with children or
disabilities receive, but I can tell you what I received as a single,
childless adult with no assets and a zero balance in my checking
account. I qualified for less than $200 a month through the SNAP food
stamp program. That’s it. I wasn’t living large off the man. I wasn’t
kicking back playing video games on a big screen TV. I was struggling
to survive until I could find work.

I didn’t have the luxury of feeling shame or embarrassment about using
food stamps, but I didn’t prance into the grocery store waving my card
around, either. At the checkout line, I shielded my card, and myself,
from the people around me. I thought, “Fuck you and your judgment.”

When I eventually found a job, I no longer qualified for assistance,
and I remained poor. My story is common and unremarkable, unlike the
fictional tale of welfare recipients driving luxury cars and eating
lobster every night.

• • •

When terrorists attacked the U.S. on September 11, 2001, Americans
pulled together. They displayed a unity reminiscent of the weeks
following the bombing of Pearl Harbor. President George. W. Bush
declared, “America is united.”

Ultimately, there would be two versions of unity: one for the rich and
one for the poor.

The Carlyle Group was named after the luxury hotel where founding
members first met in 1987 to discuss the creation of a multinational
private equity corporation. In 2001, employees and advisors of the
firm included former U.S. President George H. W. Bush; Bush’s former
Secretary of State James Baker; former Secretary of Defense Frank C.
Carlucci; and former British Prime Minister John Major.

Under the guidance of this powerful lineup of Washington insiders and
international leaders, the Carlyle Group soon became known for buying
businesses related to the defense industry — and tripling their value
during wartime. In 2002, they received $677 million in government
contracts. By 2003, as the war effort shifted focus from Afghanistan
to Iraq in search of weapon of mass destruction, the defense contracts
leapt to $2.1 billion.

The Carlyle Group wasn’t the only corporation that would profit from
the wars. From 2003 to 2013, KBR — a subsidiary of Halliburton, once
run by Dick Cheney — was awarded $39.5 billion in government
contracts. Other war profiteers include Agility ($7.4 billion),
DynCorp ($4.1 billion), and Blackwater ($1.3 billion). By early 2013,
private defense contractors had collectively earned more than $138
billion.

A 2006 report by the Institute for Policy Studies found that, in 2005,
CEOs of the largest U.S. private defense contractors continued to
profit from the ongoing wars.

Defense CEO pay was 44 times that of a military general with 20 years
of experience and 308 times that of an Army private in 2005. Generals
made $174,452 and Army privates made $25,085, while average defense
CEO pay was $7.7 million.

In contrast to wealthy individuals who became even wealthier, those
who were sent to do the actual fighting comprised disproportionately
high numbers of working class Americans. In the combined efforts of
Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan and Operation Iraqi Freedom,
almost 7,000 U.S. soldiers have died. More than 970,000 veteran
disability claims have been registered with the Veterans
Administration.

Returning soldiers face higher unemployment rates than their civilian
counterparts, particularly among male veterans age 21 to 24. Between
2009 and 2012, the youngest veterans had an unemployment rate of 21.6
percent, compared to 13.5 percent for civilians.

Veterans struggle to find proper healthcare in a system ill-prepared
for the number of wounded, particularly those with catastrophic
injuries and mental health issues that require long-term care. Private
nonprofit organizations have been picking up the slack left by
inadequate funding in the federal budget.
 “Army privates made $25,085, while average defense CEO pay was $7.7 million.”

Like their ancestors who fought in and survived the Civil War, today’s
soldiers return to find their situations either the same, or much
worse, than when they left. Who would blame them for being angry? As
soldiers go off to war we say, “God bless our troops.” Maybe we should
add, “God help them when they come home.”



“My entire life, I’ve watched politicians bragging about how poor they
are, how they came from nothing, how poor their parents and
grandparents were. And I said to myself, if they can stay so poor for
so many generations, maybe this isn’t the kind of person we want to be
electing to higher office. How smart can they be? They’re morons.”
— Donald Trump, New York Times, 1999, “Liberties; Trump Shrugged”

Donald Trump sells himself as a scrappy, self-made man whose vision,
tenacity, and business savvy alone have made him one of the world’s
most famous billionaires, but Trump is not self-made by any measure. A
poster boy for generations of socioeconomic privilege, Trump joined
the New York Military Academy at age thirteen, then studied at Fordham
University before transferring to the Wharton School of the University
of Pennsylvania. During the Vietnam War, Trump was granted five draft
deferments — the first four for education, and the last for medical
reasons.

In 1968, he joined his father’s real estate business, then
conservatively valued at $40 million. Donald took over The Trump
Organization in 1974 and restyled the company in his image — a special
blend of ego, flamboyance, and rabid ambition. He steered clear of the
steerage class and catered exclusively to the rich by buying or
building luxury residential properties, office buildings, hotels,
casinos, golf courses, and resorts.

Capital from his father’s company wasn’t Trump’s only empire-building
head start. He depended on both government and private assistance,
too, including tax abatements, financial support from the Securities
and Exchange Commission (SEC), investors, and, during the company’s
1990 massive financial troubles, a bailout pact involving seventy
banks.

In his 2000 book, The America We Deserve, Trump criticized
governmental interference in American business. He wrote, “The
greatest threat to the American Dream is the idea that dreamers need
close government scrutiny and control. Job one for us is to make sure
the public sector does a limited job, and no more.”

Trump didn’t seem threatened by the public sector’s involvement in his
four corporate bankruptcies. Trump told Forbes in April 2011,
“Basically I’ve used the laws of the country to my advantage and to
other people’s advantage … just as many, many others on top of the
business world have.”

In his eyes, Trump is a self-made entrepreneur who refuses to
acknowledge the millions of dollars of family, public, and private
assistance that helped him realize his gilt, mirrored glass, and pink
marble American dream. Government regulations that stifle ambition are
a threat to American dreamers everywhere, but laws that can be used to
the advantage of top-of-the-business-world warriors are just fine.

It makes perfect sense that Trump would share Ronald Reagan’s and Don
Tyson’s desire for smaller government. What doesn’t make sense is that
America’s white underclass would agree with him.

Big or small, our government has failed everyone but the wealthiest
class. Most politicians barely maintain a pretense of representing the
people — except during election years when they talk about “issues”
and make promises they have no intention of keeping. Once in office,
they become puppets of the richest ten percent of Americans. If you
think I’m exaggerating, watch this video:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig

Donald Trump is a business man. Until recently, money and fame were
everything to him. He measured his success by his ranking in the
Forbes 400 list of billionaires. Now, Trump wants power and control,
too. Like wealthy plantation owners who just happened to be
politicians, Trump does not need to be bought; he is already rich
enough. From a business perspective, he’s trying to cut out the middle
man — the politicians who have become puppets of the wealthy elite.

I’m just a poor white trash motherfucker. No one cares about me.

What if some people did care, but the wealthy pushed them away?

• • •

Marginalized people have been fighting for equality for decades.
Admittedly, in the quest to fight for the oppressed — people of color,
women, religious minorities, the LGBTQ community — we often overlook
the fact that classism never completely disappeared. For the white
underclass, it’s tempting to feel left out of this fight. But how can
people fighting for social equality include poor whites who see them
as the enemy?

If poor and working class whites who chant, “Trump, Trump, Trump,”
believe they have little in common with these “enemies,” they are
mistaken. We are all sides of the same coin, a coin that has been held
in the pocket of the elite class since the first settlers arrived in
the American colonies.

I’m no one special. I am a poor, uneducated, white woman. I am the
white underclass, and I am no one’s enemy. I fight for racial equality
because people of color are not my enemy. Gays, lesbians, bisexuals,
and transgender people are not my enemy. Immigrants and refugees are
not my enemy. Muslims are not my enemy. Native Americans are not my
enemy. Single mothers and fathers are not my enemy. People on
Medicare, disability, food stamps, and unemployment are not my enemy.
The homeless are not my enemy. And it turns out that the people of a
small Arkansas town in the middle of the Ozarks are not my enemy.

Other poor people are not the enemy, no matter how they look, how they
pray, or who they love. They are fighting to be heard. They are people
who, like Trump supporters, agree with the statement, “People like me
don’t have any say about what the government does.”
 “Other poor people aren't the enemy, no matter how they look, how
they pray, or who they love.”

Trump supporters believe he’s different. They believe that he cares
about us, that he tells it like it is, that he gives us a voice, that
he can’t be bought because he’s already rich, that he’s railing
against politics as usual.

But does Trump care about the white underclass, or does he still think
poor people are “morons”?

Did slave owners care about white indentured servants when they pitted
them against African slaves, or did they want to ensure a steady
supply of cheap labor? Did Ronald Reagan care about poor white people
when he trotted out the fictional welfare queen, or did he need a
budget item to cut? Do wealthy elites and politicians care about poor
and middle class people when they send them off to war, or are they
anticipating massive profits?

Trump is railing against establishment politics not because he cares
about the white underclass, but because he needs us — for now. He
isn’t reaching out a hand to lift us up. He wants to stand on our
shoulders so we can lift him up.

For more than four hundred years, wealthy elites have depended on the
white underclass to “help keep America great.” But who are we keeping
it great for? When will we realize we have more in common with all
poor people than with rich capitalists and corrupt politicians who
manipulate the system to increase their own wealth, power, and
control? Instead of wondering which billionaire will finally reach out
a hand to raise us up, we should stop waiting and start acting.

• • •

“The Revolution is coming and it is a very beautiful revolution.”

“There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must
move toward a democratic socialism.”

One of these quotes is from Martin Luther King Jr. in 1966; the other
is from Bernie Sanders in 1969.

Bernie Sanders was born into a working-class home. His father dropped
out of high school and supported the family as a paint salesman after
coming to the U.S. from Poland and struggling through the Great
Depression. Later, after the war, they would find out most of his
family died in the Holocaust. From this, Bernie Sanders learned a life
lesson, “An election in 1932 ended up killing 50 million people around
the world.”

By the time Bernie graduated from college, he was alone. His brother
had moved to England for work, and both of his parents had died. He
moved to Vermont and held a variety of low-wage jobs, spending many of
the following years broke. He is quoted in a New Yorker article as
saying, “I do know what it’s like when the electric company shuts off
the electricity and the phone company shuts off the phone — all that
stuff. So, for me, to talk to working-class people is not very hard.”

He bootstrapped his way into politics and has remained loyal to the
poor and working class for more than thirty years. He is not a
millionaire. He has not built a fortune from his position holding
office. He doesn’t make money by keeping others poor or sending them
to war. He doesn’t gain power by keeping people silent. Donald Trump
would have you believe Sanders is a “loser” for not taking financial
advantage of his position. I prefer to call him one of our own.

Bernie Sanders doesn’t say that if you are poor, it’s your own damn
fault. He says if you are poor, take my hand. Together we can lift you
up. His campaign isn’t about freebies or handouts. It’s about
opportunity. It’s about believing that, given a chance and an even
playing field, the poor and working class can achieve their dreams. He
knows this because he has lived it.

Sanders’ revolution is about lifting the hand of oppression so we can
all move forward in equality. It is about everyone having the same
opportunity to paint their walls in shades of possibility.

When we have been pushed down for so long, it can become impossible to
see whose hands are keeping us there. Is it really welfare queens or
immigrant laborers or Muslims, as Trump claims? I say no, because
those people have so little power. Maybe the answer lies not in
looking up, but in looking sideways and recognizing that our poor
neighbors, who may be different than us, are struggling too. Maybe if
we all look up together, we can see more clearly that the hand of
oppression belongs only to those who have always had money, power, and
control. Those are the real enemies.

The real enemies fear us. They know that if we come together, we will
have the numbers on our side. They’ve always known this and it
terrifies them. We must stop doing what they want: fighting among
ourselves and allowing ourselves to be held down by their fear. We
must direct a truly united voice against those who, four hundred years
ago, created the American Dream and then held it out of reach. We must
join together and fight back against the wealthy elite and corporate
politicians. We must build a new country that belongs to all of us, a
country where no one ever has to feel like just a poor motherfucker no
one cares about.

Headshot-Jonna-100
Jonna Ivin is STIR’s founder. Read her riveting
bio http://www.stirjournal.com/who-we-are/
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr  5 11:09:25 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:09:25 -0700
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP
 traffic
In-Reply-To: <5703F8B7.4020005@pilobilus.net>
References: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net> <5703F8B7.4020005@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <5703FF55.5060900@riseup.net>

Steve Kinney wrote:
> On 04/04/2016 05:04 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> > From February this year:
>
> > Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators
> > Gabi Nakibly1,3, Jaime Schcolnik2, and Yossi Rubin3
>
> > 1 Computer Science Department, Technion, Haifa, Israel
> > 2Computer Science Department, Interdisciplinary Center,
> > Herzliya, Israel 3Rafael – Advanced Defense Systems, Haifa,
> > Israel
> [...]
>
> > www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
>
> Inadvertent (?) geek humor:
>
> ~/Desktop $ wget http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> --2016-04-05 13:36:35--  http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> Resolving www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
> Connecting to www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)|128.84.21.199|:80...
> connected.
> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
> Location: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf [following]
> --2016-04-05 13:36:36--  http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> Resolving arxiv.org (arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
> Reusing existing connection to www.arxiv.org:80.
> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
> 2016-04-05 13:36:36 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
>
> Apparently they like the user agent string from Firefox better; I
> did get a copy of the article via the said browser.
>
>
>

http://chrispederick.com/work/user-agent-switcher/

-- 

RR

"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"



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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Apr  5 01:53:41 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:53:41 +0300
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
 'limited hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702E58A.7050902@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
 <5702c0c1.1047370a.64578.ffffbaf3@mx.google.com>
 <5702C5FA.3020208@riseup.net>
 <5702d66d.56a88c0a.f7313.ffffc691@mx.google.com>
 <5702E58A.7050902@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160405085341.GB674@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 03:07:06PM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
> 
> David Cameron's father is in there too.
>

I suspect there are much more interesting people there, using decent
proxies.
 




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr  5 12:28:37 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 12:28:37 -0700
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP
 traffic
In-Reply-To: <20160405183803.GF9507@riseup.net>
References: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net> <5703F8B7.4020005@pilobilus.net>
 <5703FF55.5060900@riseup.net> <20160405183803.GF9507@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <570411E5.1020605@riseup.net>

Sangy wrote:

    Why bother? 


It's "Why did *I* bother"

If you have a critique of the doc you might want to state it now since
you seem to think it's a waste of bandwidth...

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 10:00:38 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:00:38 -0400
Subject: What's App End to End Encryption
In-Reply-To: <CAPkBPbBXyrR6a3HMyJjbiyDPJ0TJ6rWOejfz7D4Qbe+5udXeow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkBPbBXyrR6a3HMyJjbiyDPJ0TJ6rWOejfz7D4Qbe+5udXeow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zedo98q72aizb0-t0mN5R2K4Cv+yPN54vss98ZzGs0gyA@mail.gmail.com>

Whats the statement / question here?

https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepaper.pdf

-Travis

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Yush Bhardwaj <yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> http://www.wired.com/2014/11/whatsapp-encrypted-messaging/
>
> What's is also using AES, HMAC AND Elliptic Curve ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Yush Bhardwaj*
>
>


-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Tue Apr  5 10:31:37 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:31:37 -0400
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5703F679.8030807@pilobilus.net>

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On 04/04/2016 11:13 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> "Instead of wondering which billionaire will finally reach out
> a hand to raise us up, we should stop waiting and start
> acting."
> 
> Chart attached, and youtube video (see below) might be worth
> watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
> 
> 
> ---- 
> http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant
- -trump-trump-trump/

Hum.
> 
The attached chart referenced above, is one I have been
circulating for months.  It illustrates the result of boom and
bust cycles in the U.S. domestic economy.  With every boom and
bust cycle in the U.S. domestic economy, the income and assets gap
between the upper and lower classes grows wider.  That's probably
why these cycles exist.

Fun fact:  According to an article published in Forbes a couple of
years ago, 400 people own 1/2 the capital assets in the United
States.  Democratic self governance?  Yeah right, that's possible
in a Company Town that spans a continent.

Aside from quoting a little bit of Big Lie propaganda from a
history professor (the notion that Abe Lincoln campaigned as an
abolitionist), the article itself is entirely in line with my own
views on U.S. class warfare, including the role of racism therein.

Apparently it's a VERY popular article:  No sooner had I finished
reading it than a random passer-by mentioned it to me as something
I should read.

:o)





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From admin at pilobilus.net  Tue Apr  5 10:41:11 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 13:41:11 -0400
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP
 traffic
In-Reply-To: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net>
References: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5703F8B7.4020005@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/04/2016 05:04 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> From February this year:
> 
> Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators 
> Gabi Nakibly1,3, Jaime Schcolnik2, and Yossi Rubin3
> 
> 1 Computer Science Department, Technion, Haifa, Israel 
> 2Computer Science Department, Interdisciplinary Center, 
> Herzliya, Israel 3Rafael – Advanced Defense Systems, Haifa,
> Israel
[...]
> 
> www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf

Inadvertent (?) geek humor:

~/Desktop $ wget http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
- --2016-04-05 13:36:35--  http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
Resolving www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
Connecting to www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)|128.84.21.199|:80...
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf [following]
- --2016-04-05 13:36:36--  http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
Resolving arxiv.org (arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
Reusing existing connection to www.arxiv.org:80.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
2016-04-05 13:36:36 ERROR 403: Forbidden.

Apparently they like the user agent string from Firefox better; I
did get a copy of the article via the said browser.



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Ucwd9r+NfSlNM8/hemrT
=Ctt9
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 11:38:01 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 14:38:01 -0400
Subject: NPR story: When A Dark Web Volunteer Gets Raided By The Police
In-Reply-To: <CAM8WWJC-ywz85VYU6nD-264K6XOOEjhM=_ecwn-WyArfV9FNew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM8WWJC-ywz85VYU6nD-264K6XOOEjhM=_ecwn-WyArfV9FNew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_3vbm4+rgitmmu+4ddaOUEVPSjfwcW2sWJT0oJpdAqZg@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/04/04/472992023/when-a-dark-web-volunteer-gets-raided-by-the-police

He/they gave passwords and let govt search (and perhaps even index,
hash, and copy, knowingly or not [1]) his (possibly then unencrypted) data.
As opposed to having it confiscated pending potentially 2^128 time.
Where is the principled stand there? [2][4]

[1] This happened while he was detained outside / away from
control of his systems.

[2] He "may now have to get rid of his computers because he
can't be sure what the police did to them [3]". For which giving
passwords had no purpose but to nullify a potentially good test
case, trample rights and replace "innocent till guilty" with "violated,
chilled, innocent for now, while Cardinal Richelieu's database hums...
... If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest
of men, whether or not I find something in them which will hang him,
I will database them and own his soul forever."

[3] Already did:
https://twitter.com/SeattlePrivacy/status/716460499106340864

[4] Due credit, thugs with guns at your door does tend to
modify even the most well thought and prepared for principles.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger for next time.




From sangy at riseup.net  Tue Apr  5 11:38:03 2016
From: sangy at riseup.net (Sangy)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 14:38:03 -0400
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP
 traffic
In-Reply-To: <5703FF55.5060900@riseup.net>
References: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net> <5703F8B7.4020005@pilobilus.net>
 <5703FF55.5060900@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160405183803.GF9507@riseup.net>

On Tue, Apr 05, 2016 at 11:09:25AM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
> Steve Kinney wrote:
> > On 04/04/2016 05:04 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> > > From February this year:
> >
> > > Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators
> > > Gabi Nakibly1,3, Jaime Schcolnik2, and Yossi Rubin3
> >
> > > 1 Computer Science Department, Technion, Haifa, Israel
> > > 2Computer Science Department, Interdisciplinary Center,
> > > Herzliya, Israel 3Rafael – Advanced Defense Systems, Haifa,
> > > Israel
> > [...]
> >
> > > www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> >
> > Inadvertent (?) geek humor:
> >
> > ~/Desktop $ wget http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> > --2016-04-05 13:36:35--  http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> > Resolving www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
> > Connecting to www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)|128.84.21.199|:80...
> > connected.
> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
> > Location: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf [following]
> > --2016-04-05 13:36:36--  http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> > Resolving arxiv.org (arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
> > Reusing existing connection to www.arxiv.org:80.
> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
> > 2016-04-05 13:36:36 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
> >
> > Apparently they like the user agent string from Firefox better; I
> > did get a copy of the article via the said browser.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> http://chrispederick.com/work/user-agent-switcher/
> 
> -- 
> 
> RR
> 
> "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"
> 
> 
> 

[redacted] at ~ ✔ wget --user-agent="kek http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
--2016-04-05 14:35:50--  http://www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
Resolving www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
Connecting to www.arxiv.org (www.arxiv.org)|128.84.21.199|:80...
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently
Location: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf [following]
--2016-04-05 14:35:50--  http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
Resolving arxiv.org (arxiv.org)... 128.84.21.199
Reusing existing connection to www.arxiv.org:80.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 184185 (180K) [application/pdf]
Saving to: ‘1602.07128v1.pdf’

1602.07128v1.pdf
100%[======================================================================================================================>]
179.87K   776KB/s    in 0.2s    

2016-04-05 14:35:51 (776 KB/s) - ‘1602.07128v1.pdf’ saved
[184185/184185]

Why bother?




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:35:55 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 15:35:55 -0400
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/16, Ismail Kizir <ikizir at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Dan Geer said:
>> Anyone who voluntarily uses a device whose inherent function requires
>> continuous connectivity has no, repeat no, reasonable expectation of not
>> being tracked.

Problem is, people (and the people) either:
- Did (or do not, or no longer, or would not) grant explicit
permission for such.
- Either way, they have no real idea the true depth of what's going on,
not even at the surface, not because they're stupid or doing something else,
but because you keep it secret and don't tell them, even when they ask,
both of which are evil, in particular while under all the other strange
forces being applied to them. Like braindead Facebook and TV.

"Reasonable expectation" has turned out to be, not open truth
and permission, but a linguistic game, not for the people, but
one continually modified upon and against them.

>>> Someone said:
>>> [The] human brain
>>> ...
>>> Oh wait -- these have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
>>> Let the Nuremburg Trials re-commence.

Every year same goes by, is another set of guilotines discreetly readied.


> For a long time, I have been following the discussions on the list.
> I have a political sciences education, which makes it more interesting for
> me.
> In my personal opinion, we are living one of the rare moments, the
> great constitution of founding fathers is not enough!
>
> European constitutions(except U.K, which is also a Anglo-Saxon
> country) are usually very vey long constitutional texts. And we
> criticize this very much.
>
> As students, we were telling to our professors that we love short
> constitutions. And they were replying: "Everybody loves short
> constituions. But it has a potential danger: Juristocracy. Short
> constitutions need to be 'interpreted' by the 'judges' and/or by the
> administrators, and, in case they have bad intentions, the character of
> the regime may change to oligarchy".
>
> This is one of the rare moments of having a long constitution is better:
> For example, 22th article of Turkish
> Constitution(https://global.tbmm.gov.tr/docs/constitution_en.pdf)
> simply tells:"Everyone has the freedom of communication. Privacy of
> communication is fundamental....". The judges has still very strong
> rights, but limited!
>
> Unfortunately, the actual American political system can't be
> identified as a democracy. And it's very far from Founding Fathers's
> ideals.
>
> It's simply an oligarchy.
>
> Bi-partist system, which doesn't give any hope to "really" change
> anything(proof: Low turnout rates for national elections)
> Elitism ...
> Networks(free-masons, clubs, regional networks, ethnic networks etc.)
> A governmental system which "destroys the citizen against the government"
>
> I humbly want to recommend to everybody in this group, to read Wright
> Mills's extraordinary book called "Power Elite".
>
> This book, is the "masterpiece" of political science studies in the
> domain of "elite theory". It's an academic book, but, everybody
> interested in politics can easily read and understand it. You will
> feel like reading
> a very high quality novel. It's about United States!
>
> I gave my graduate thesis on "political elites". Mills's "work" is so
> good that, I decided to not to become an academician, because, I have
> nothing to tell more than he told on that book. It gives examples from
> his own country, United States, of 1950's, but he's really telling us
> Turkey of 2016 :)
>
> In Europe, American Intellectualism is usually underestimated due to
> its pragmatist characteristics and lack of theoretical background.
> But I know very well that there are very good American intellectuals
> with theoretical background(as Wright Mills).
> And this list refreshes my hopes for American intellectualism.
>
> And again, my humble opinion as a political scientist is that, United
> States needs "theoretical intellectual discussions about its political
> system and personal freedoms"! And only intellectual can do it. It's
> very important, because the rest of the world also depends on it.
>
> Thank you
> Ismail Kizir
>
> http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 12:30:36 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:30:36 -0300
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570412bf.86da8c0a.35766.6cb3@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 03:13:06 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> "Instead of wondering which billionaire will finally reach out a hand
> to raise us up, we should stop waiting and start acting."
> 
> Chart attached, and youtube video (see below) might be worth watching:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
 
	That's the political system working as designed anyway. And
	when they say they are going to bypass congress they hardly
	mean it. 

 

 





From me at benmezger.nl  Tue Apr  5 12:39:02 2016
From: me at benmezger.nl (Ben Mezger)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 16:39:02 -0300
Subject: You thought it was just your local ISP messing with your HTTP
 traffic
In-Reply-To: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net>
References: <5702D6D9.6040201@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <57041456.4060402@benmezger.nl>

Not related though, but somehow this reminded me when I bought my domain
at Transip.nl, where I set fake details (such as address and etc, though
real name), and after paying, a day later I received an email requesting
a copy of my passport + bank card to make sure I was really how I said I
was, otherwise they would be forced to block my account and further
address this "fake" issue. It reminded me of how ICANN can really mess
you up too, and personally.

On 04/04/2016 06:04 PM, Rayzer wrote:
> From February this year:
> 
>     Website-Targeted False Content Injection by Network Operators
>     Gabi Nakibly1,3, Jaime Schcolnik2, and Yossi Rubin3
> 
>     1 Computer Science Department, Technion, Haifa, Israel
>     2Computer Science Department, Interdisciplinary Center, Herzliya,
>     Israel
>     3Rafael – Advanced Defense Systems, Haifa, Israel
> 
> 
>     Over the last few years there have been numerous reports of ISPs
>     that alter or proxy their customers’ traffic, including, for
>     example, CMA Communications in 2013 [6], Comcast in 2012 [16],
>     Mediacom in 2011 [9], WOW! in 2008 [27], and Rogers in 2007 [32].
>     Moreover, several extensive studies have brought the details of this
>     practice to light [17, 30, 25, 35]. The main motivations of ISPs to
>     alter traffic are to facilitate caching, inject advertisements into
>     DNS and HTTP error messages, and compress or transcode content.
> 
>      All of these reports and studies found that these traffic
>     alterations were carried out exclusively by edge ISPs,namely, retail
>     ISPs that sell Internet access directly to end customers, and are
>     their “first hop” to the Internet. This finding stems from the
>     server-centric approach the above studies have taken. In this
>     approach, one or a handful of servers are deployed to deliver
>     specific content to users, after which a large number of clients are
>     solicited to fetch that content from the servers. Finally, an agent
>     on the clients – usually a JavaScript delivered by the server itself
>     – looks for deviations between the content delivered by the server
>     and that displayed to the user. Figure 1(a)illustrates the traffic
>     monitored in this server-centric approach.
> 
>     Such an approach can be used to inspect the traffic of many clients
>     from diverse geographies who are served by different edge ISPs. The
>     main disadvantage of this approach is that the content fetched by
>     the clients is very specific. All clients fetch the same content
>     from the same web servers. This allows only the detection of network
>     entities that aim to modify all of the Internet traffic1 of a
>     predetermined set of users and are generally oblivious to the actual
>     content delivered to the user. Such entities indeed tend to be edge
>     ISPs that target only the traffic of their customers.
> 
>     In this work we show that the above approach misses a substantial
>     portion of the on-path entities that modify traffic on the Internet.
>     Using extensive observations over a period of several weeks, we
>     analyzed petabits of Internet traffic carrying varied content
>     delivered by servers having over 1.5 million distinct IP addresses.
>     We newly reveal several network operators that modify traffic not
>     limited to a specific set of users. Such network operators alter
>     Internet traffic on the basis of its content, primarily by the
>     website a user visits. The traffic of every Internet user that
>     traverses these network operators is susceptible to alteration."
> 
> 
> www.arxiv.org/pdf/1602.07128v1.pdf
> 

-- 
Kind Regards,
Ben Mezger
https://benmezger.nl




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 19:39:39 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 21:39:39 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, sorry for barging in....

On 4/5/16, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/5/16, Ismail Kizir <ikizir at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Dan Geer said:
>>> Anyone who voluntarily uses a device whose inherent function requires
>>> continuous connectivity has no, repeat no, reasonable expectation of not
>>> being tracked.
>
> Problem is, people (and the people) either:
> - Did (or do not, or no longer, or would not) grant explicit
> permission for such.
> - Either way, they have no real idea the true depth of what's going on,
> not even at the surface, not because they're stupid or doing something
> else,
> but because you keep it secret and don't tell them, even when they ask,
> both of which are evil, in particular while under all the other strange
> forces being applied to them. Like braindead Facebook and TV.
>
> "Reasonable expectation" has turned out to be, not open truth
> and permission, but a linguistic game, not for the people, but
> one continually modified upon and against them.

The solution to the problems of state is not better cyptography.
Those are nice techniques which will be useful for other things.  The
solution to the problems of State is to fix the State.   Because the
scenario of overthrowing the government and instating a
socialists/anarchist/whatever state is not going to be a welcome
solution to the existing populace.  Absent that, you only have hiding
from the State or other minor changes which aren't ultimately
effective.

The solution for fixing the State of America (which is the first
domino in the chain) is to remember that the American Revolution
fought for the same ideals as us and USE THE LAW.  It is unambiguously
in the hands of the People.  There's no way a Court, hanging a US flag
can ignore principles of that the nation was founded on.

See <http://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Hack_the_Law> for several cracks in
the behemoth/ juggernaut of what is now "America".

Marxos
So transparent as to be invisible...




From yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 09:48:19 2016
From: yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com (Yush Bhardwaj)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2016 22:18:19 +0530
Subject: What's App End to End Encryption
Message-ID: <CAPkBPbBXyrR6a3HMyJjbiyDPJ0TJ6rWOejfz7D4Qbe+5udXeow@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/whatsapp-encrypted-messaging/

What's is also using AES, HMAC AND Elliptic Curve ?






*Yush Bhardwaj*
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  5 21:43:21 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:43:21 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] Innocent Seattle Exit Operators And Privacy Advocates
 Raided - Tor was run out of home @Phil Mocek and @e347c518
In-Reply-To: <1876498118.763709.1459908306246.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail10.arcor-online.net>
References: <1876498118.763709.1459908306246.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail10.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_rB0UrP0mFnN_buevJ0FM5oQhfoaXd=aqfr12NRgTXnw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/16, tor_talk at arcor.de <tor_talk at arcor.de> wrote:
> Hi Phil Mocek and Tor Talkers,
>
> @Phil Mocek
> thx for the links. normally there is a cache of a website for some time. but
> this time i got none. so thanks for the links.
>>- <https://twitter.com/SeattlePrivacy/status/716460499106340864>
>>- <https://twitter.com/jdormansteele/status/716807343988715521>
>>- <https://web.archive.org/web/20160304025122/www.seattleprivacy.org/>
>
> @e347c518
>> They found no evidence of as a molester so that is good too. Unless it was
>> really but hidden.
>
> nevertheless, the two activists are now known and never search engine
> forgotten at last as some who were raided for a childporn picture by police
> and fbi. if you need a job or want to fund money for a campaign or project
> even for another Tor Exit Node it will be a lot harder or impossible. and
> that is the more crucial thing what has happened here; fearful activists in
> spe will think twice doing a Tor Exit (at home). in these times it isn't
> "not guilty until proven otherwise". if you want a relationship with another
> employer, partner or travel around (with visa) it will be hard if someone
> search your name now in the internet. the most people don't read to the end.
> they aren't interested in "not guilty" but in "unless it was really but
> hidden". that is cruel. you don't want that in your digital CV for a single
> childporn picture which never existed, you never possessed you never saw.
>
> as previously said <1MB childporn pic suffocate all your equipments (can't
> use it after policed touched it)
>
> https://twitter.com/SeattlePrivacy/status/716460499106340864
> #WeWillRebuild
>
> and change your life. i understand now, you really want to change something
> desperately in the USA while installing a Tor ExitNode in your home. that is
> hard core. but you can get wet once only when it is raining. i hope the
> number of the community and the tor exit nodes operators will skyrocket now
> and every time a raid like this happens.
> perhaps we should make some search engine words suggestions trendy for the
> raid winners
> Bultmann Robinson nobel peace prize winner best employee of the month
> guardians of the gate Tor is where your home is home is where Tor is

I'd hire them, let them immigrate their boat on my beach, live quietly
in my flat. One's history may be relavent to the opposition, yet nothing
is impossible among peers.




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr  5 18:16:41 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 01:16:41 +0000
Subject: When is it necessary to take up arms?
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Certainly, when your life, and the lives of many in your community,
are simultaneously going to be threatened - this type of situation is
known to some in recent times.

When is necessary to take up arms:

"The leader of the resistance of Donbass defends his decision to arm
his supporters. “Raging Ukro-Nazis were beginning to destroy Soviet
monuments. Were we supposed to dutifully wait until this crazy beast
came to us? Or were we to lay down our heads before the heirs of the
Hitlerites and their indigenous henchmen?(…) Time quickly showed that
we were right. In Odessa, where the “Kuliovo Field” movement decided
not to take up weapons in hand and did not worry about the force of
the authorities but instead hoped to peacefully collect signatures for
the autonomy of Novorossiya, their people were simply burned alive. In
Zaporozhye, a rally was brutally broken up by force.”
"

Part 1:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/review-torch-of-novorossiya-part-1.html

Part 2:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/04/review-of-gubarevs-tell-all-torch-of.html

There are reenactments, footage of actual events, many photos and
details of mass graves etc, of the brutal events in Ukraine, Donbass
and Crimea. Lest anyone suggest we live in a civilized world where
peace and daisies will save us all.




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr  5 20:36:05 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 03:36:05 +0000
Subject: Rojava - direct democracy, Kurdistan, gender equality, polyethnic
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRsuHDdWHdKiQOV5xWKrFZ4XY0wQZeZAXVz+3mgaAwLeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSR3n0tqMa8A4VpYi9-m7GoNHZK5VyUchcW_zxxL0UNGAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRsuHDdWHdKiQOV5xWKrFZ4XY0wQZeZAXVz+3mgaAwLeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQe6b6_b6dy-eGezkMotDofe_4eVipp5xAbsL7_e3L-zA@mail.gmail.com>

Kurdistan Updates:


http://russia-insider.com/en/kurds-set-declare-autonomy-tensions-syrian-army-what-about-erdogan/ri13400
Kurds Declare Autonomy, Clash With Syrian Army, What Will Erdogan Do?
Clashes errupt as Kurds set to unilateraly declare a federal autonomy
move to neutralize pro-government forces in northeastern Syria
Mark Nicholas
2016-03-17


http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/04/kurd-autonomy-is-it-kerrys-plan-b-or-putins-plan-a/
Kurd Autonomy: Is it Kerry’s Plan B or Putin’s Plan A?
Author: F. William Engdahl
2016-04-04




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  6 08:18:40 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 08:18:40 -0700
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>

Xer0Dynamite wrote:
> The solution for fixing the State of America (which is the first
> domino in the chain) is to remember that the American Revolution
> fought for the same ideals 

That's nice except, despite vicious rumors to the contrary indoctrinated
in 'Mericans by the mind modification programs they call "Schools",
there was no "American Revolution". Revolutions are based on ideologies.
Greed is not an ideology. Any simple perusal of the Constitution shows
it is about trade relations between the states, and nations, and private
property rights, to the advantage of a microscopic percentage of the
people on the continent at that time, and perhaps moreso now.

The Bill of Rights is for the rest of us, and it was hard fought, almost
causing the Constitution to have never been signed at all when
delegations began following Pennsylvania's lead, and also considered
walking out. ... and ever since those documents were signed the people
who hold power have strengthened THEIR rights (the constitution) and
weakened ours (the so-called Bill of Rights)

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  6 09:56:20 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 09:56:20 -0700
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>

Georgi Guninski wrote:
> Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
> lifetime?
>
> Also increase in  major natural disasters (not counting m$ products/
> services)?
>
> I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.
>

Lived in the same Monterey Bay area California town for 40 years. Over
the last ten years or so it's gotten decidedly colder in the winter. It
rarely used to freeze at sea level here (once or twice in a decade or
so) and now it occurs with some regularity... at least three or four
time a year. It also gets warmer. There used to be a couple of 90 degree
days in the summer and the rest more moderate, typically in the upper
60s to upper 70s for most of the season ... Eight years or so ago it
went up to 105f for two days in a row braking every known record. It
gets into the 80s and 90s much more often now. No one has functional air
conditioning here in their homes or cars, and most homes are only
lightly insulated (if at all). Pity the poor commuters stuck in bay area
traffic (not!)

The Climate pundits are saying what are now the extreme temperatures
will be the norm in 20 years.

Chemtrails... What ARE they (that conspiratorial 'they', not me or you
or you) hiding?

http://36.media.tumblr.com/5995c8c38a3a35062a00e50d17e47346/tumblr_n7bh1ufdaD1r9ju7do1_500.jpg

-- 
RR
"Maybe if we tell them the brain is an 'app' people will use it"


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 08:55:16 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 11:55:16 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28ccpVgbyh_tvcwVkMJk-2tBQdpFoTNLpXpV9hqBc6oJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/16, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
> lifetime?

Winter seems timeshifted and not consistent anymore.

> Also increase in  major natural disasters

Maybe not, but human fuckery has gone way up.

Nature's a fun little bitch when she angry, chase her ;)

https://www.youtube.com/results?q=storm+chasing




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  6 13:33:49 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:33:49 -0700
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
 <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570572AD.7060805@riseup.net>

Xer0Dynamite wrote:
> That may be your interpretation, but given the foundation of "which it
> stands" and by the letter of the Law, you have tremendous advantage
> you can leverage on you, the individual's, behalf--regardless of how
> corrupt various Legislative acts have made the Law as it stands today.

Tell that to the US prison population... Almost entirely black people
without adequate legal representation. Don't waste your time quoting
history textbooks at me. It just makes you look ignorant of the reality
of American society. A reality that's been that way since the first day
the "Constitution" was signed. which simply codified preexisting
operational structures.

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 09:55:57 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:55:57 -0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <57053ffd.86da8c0a.409c2.7055@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:49:23 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> 
> Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
> lifetime?


	Of course. The cliamte is a so called 'chaotic' system. It
	changes all the time, and at different time scales. It changes
	per hour, per day, per week, per month, per season, per
	year...you get the picture. 


> 
> Also increase in  major natural disasters 

	No, only man made disasters are increasing.


(not counting m$ products/
> services)?
> 
> I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.




From beatthebastards at inbox.com  Wed Apr  6 15:04:18 2016
From: beatthebastards at inbox.com (I)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:04:18 -0800
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr-6UqtPtLjsPOS4vvazYDG1jXzfWuMPDB0kjvd31LxdJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>

"I've seen prisons."!!









From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 12:43:42 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:43:42 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> Xer0Dynamite wrote:
>> The solution for fixing the State of America (which is the first
>> domino in the chain) is to remember that the American Revolution
>> fought for the same ideals
>
> That's nice except, despite vicious rumors to the contrary indoctrinated
> in 'Mericans by the mind modification programs they call "Schools",
> there was no "American Revolution". Revolutions are based on ideologies.
> Greed is not an ideology.

No, the American Revolution was fought to bring the colonies
independence from tyranny and instigated by the Boston Tea Party
incident and the Declaration of Independence.  The latter is good to
re-read to see very pointedly the ideals held.

> Any simple perusal of the Constitution shows
> it is about trade relations between the states, and nations, and private
> property rights, to the advantage of a microscopic percentage of the
> people on the continent at that time, and perhaps moreso now.

That may be your interpretation, but given the foundation of "which it
stands" and by the letter of the Law, you have tremendous advantage
you can leverage on you, the individual's, behalf--regardless of how
corrupt various Legislative acts have made the Law as it stands today.
Remember the Bar Association is an unconstitutional monopoly that has
intimidated people out of their own rights by convincing them that the
law belongs to them.  Not so.  Even if they argue that they wrote a
Law, it is up to the elected Official to enforce it AND the Court to
uphold it as obeying the SPIRIT of the law (not the LETTER).

Constitutionally, police have no power EXCEPT as authorized by your
elected leader.  They are not mentioned at all in the Constitution.
Frankly, the whole federal government is a mess, and if you get
arrested for some heinous crime like copying data from a corporate
server somewhere, you need to point out that the federal executive
branch (which would be probably doing the arrest) is a schizoid,
psychotic mess and should not be trusted.  (To wit:  the "Department
of Justice".... under.... the Executive Branch. WTF?  Issues of
Justice are handled by the Judicial BRANCH.  It's not up to the
Executive to decide that they're executing Justice.)

> The Bill of Rights is for the rest of us, and it was hard fought, almost
> causing the Constitution to have never been signed at all when
> delegations began following Pennsylvania's lead, and also considered
> walking out. ... and ever since those documents were signed the people
> who hold power have strengthened THEIR rights (the constitution) and
> weakened ours (the so-called Bill of Rights)

Don't believe it.  The rights remain among the People and no Court is
going to be able to argue otherwise.  The Left has GIVEN away power,
mostly to media (do you question the veracity of national news?),
which is why the Internet is so important.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr  6 12:42:54 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:42:54 -0400
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
In-Reply-To: <570412bf.86da8c0a.35766.6cb3@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSJDPQjtdyY+bFhrYWcz+Ha4Rq9V4C=n3svuFRmd_WtxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <570412bf.86da8c0a.35766.6cb3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <570566BE.4070006@pilobilus.net>

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Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/2016 03:30 PM, juan wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 03:13:06 +0000 Zenaan Harkness
> <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> 
>> "Instead of wondering which billionaire will finally reach
>> out a hand to raise us up, we should stop waiting and start
>> acting."
>> 
>> Chart attached, and youtube video (see below) might be worth
>> watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
> 
> That's the political system working as designed anyway. And 
> when they say they are going to bypass congress they hardly 
> mean it.

Nobody has to "bypass" Congres; you have to take a bypass route to
include them in /any/ real decision making process at the Federal
level.  ;o)

More political fun:

The Power Elite, C. Wright Mills, Oxford University Press, 1956

"The power elite is composed of political, economic, and military
men, but this instituted elite is frequently in some tension: it
comes together only on certain coinciding points and only on
certain occasions of ‘crisis.’ In the long peace of the nineteenth
century, the military were not in the high councils of state, not
of the political directorate, and neither were the economic men —
they made raids upon the state but they did not join its
directorate. During the ‘thirties, the political man was
ascendant. Now the military and the corporate men are in top
positions.

"Of the three types of circle that compose the power elite today,
it is the military that has benefited the most in its enhanced
power, although the corporate circles have also become more
explicitly intrenched in the more public decision-making circles.
It is the professional politician that has lost the most, so much
that in examining the events and decisions, one is tempted to
speak of a political vacuum in which the corporate rich and the
high warlord, in their coinciding interests, rule.

Excerpt:  https://tinyurl.com/elitepower

Mentioned this earlier, mentioning it again:

National Security and Double Government, Michael J. Glennon,
Harvard National Security Journal, 2014

"The United States has, in short, moved beyond a mere imperial
presidency to a bifurcated  system — a structure of double
government — in which even the President now exercises little
substantive control over the overall direction of U.S. national
security policy. Whereas Britain’s dual institutions evolved
towards a concealed republic, America’s have evolved in the
opposite direction, toward  greater centralization, less
accountability, and emergent autocracy."

Full text:  https://tinyurl.com/thedeepstate

Recommended soundtrack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI
(Pearl Jam, Do The Evolution)

Monarchies did not survive in the new environment created by high
volume trans-oceanic commerce, and the printing press.  Will
Militant Plutocracy survive in the new environment created by its
own unchecked exponential growth - and the Internet?

:o)



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From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:45:35 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:45:35 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <570572AD.7060805@riseup.net>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
 <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570572AD.7060805@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr-6UqtPtLjsPOS4vvazYDG1jXzfWuMPDB0kjvd31LxdJA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> Xer0Dynamite wrote:
>> That may be your interpretation, but given the foundation of "which it
>> stands" and by the letter of the Law, you have tremendous advantage
>> you can leverage on you, the individual's, behalf--regardless of how
>> corrupt various Legislative acts have made the Law as it stands today.
>
> Tell that to the US prison population... Almost entirely black people
> without adequate legal representation. Don't waste your time quoting
> history textbooks at me. It just makes you look ignorant of the reality
> of American society. A reality that's been that way since the first day
> the "Constitution" was signed. which simply codified preexisting
> operational structures.

That is a good issue.  In almost every case, the prisoner is more
innocent that the leaders who have killed people in cold blood,
without remorse or empathy --the textbook definition of "psychopath".
Yet there is no world police to arrest the leaders and take them to
court and see if their acts were righteous or not.

The only explanation is that lawyers are sucking the tits of Satan.
Because, it's only a very simple legal argument to make that a drug
dealer is working CONSENSUALLY in a FREE MARKET SYSTEM with products
whose effects are *mostly* limited to the INDIVIDUAL's liberty.  Even
a murder case, can be argued for, since the State has set the example.

I don't buy the idea that most prisoners are black.  I think this is
Leftist media propaganda.  I've seen prisons.  They typically
segregate the population, yet it was clear that there were just as
many whites as there were blacks, perhaps more (and this was in LA
County).

\0xDynamite




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  6 05:49:23 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:49:23 +0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
Message-ID: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>


Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
lifetime?

Also increase in  major natural disasters (not counting m$ products/
services)?

I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:57:34 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 15:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <57057617.064a370a.d7c80.ffff981c@mx.google.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
 <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <57057617.064a370a.d7c80.ffff981c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr-5=1RsvKzyBeeCbC+USBDNTC63LJ3c__v_KnZ4wZ=M-g@mail.gmail.com>

No, you are being manipulated to giving up on your own legal system.
There is no mention of tyranny in the early colonies, not by blacks,
whites, nor the red man.

Consider this though:  do you think the Black population has cared
about the Indian when they celebrate "Black History Month" with all
their singing and celebration?

It's all theatre.

\0xD

On 4/6/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:43:42 -0500
> Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>> > Xer0Dynamite wrote:
>> >> The solution for fixing the State of America (which is the first
>> >> domino in the chain) is to remember that the American Revolution
>> >> fought for the same ideals
>> >
>> > That's nice except, despite vicious rumors to the contrary
>> > indoctrinated in 'Mericans by the mind modification programs they
>> > call "Schools", there was no "American Revolution". Revolutions are
>> > based on ideologies. Greed is not an ideology.
>>
>> No, the American Revolution was fought to bring the colonies
>> independence from tyranny
>
> 	LMAO!!!!
>
> 	There was no revolution. There was a coup d'etat carried by the
> 	worst shitbags on the planet, who replaced british 'tyranny'
> 	with their own. Notice how even  the british psychos abolished
> 	slavery before the americunts.
>
>
>> and instigated by the Boston Tea Party
>> incident and the Declaration of Independence.  The latter is good to
>> re-read to see very pointedly the ideals held.
>>
>> > Any simple perusal of the Constitution shows
>> > it is about trade relations between the states, and nations, and
>> > private property rights, to the advantage of a microscopic
>> > percentage of the people on the continent at that time, and perhaps
>> > moreso now.
>>
>> That may be your interpretation, but given the foundation of "which it
>> stands" and by the letter of the Law, you have tremendous advantage
>> you can leverage on you, the individual's, behalf--regardless of how
>> corrupt various Legislative acts have made the Law as it stands today.
>> Remember the Bar Association is an unconstitutional monopoly that has
>> intimidated people out of their own rights by convincing them that the
>> law belongs to them.  Not so.  Even if they argue that they wrote a
>> Law, it is up to the elected Official to enforce it AND the Court to
>> uphold it as obeying the SPIRIT of the law (not the LETTER).
>>
>> Constitutionally, police have no power EXCEPT as authorized by your
>> elected leader.  They are not mentioned at all in the Constitution.
>> Frankly, the whole federal government is a mess, and if you get
>> arrested for some heinous crime like copying data from a corporate
>> server somewhere, you need to point out that the federal executive
>> branch (which would be probably doing the arrest) is a schizoid,
>> psychotic mess and should not be trusted.  (To wit:  the "Department
>> of Justice".... under.... the Executive Branch. WTF?  Issues of
>> Justice are handled by the Judicial BRANCH.  It's not up to the
>> Executive to decide that they're executing Justice.)
>>
>> > The Bill of Rights is for the rest of us, and it was hard fought,
>> > almost causing the Constitution to have never been signed at all
>> > when delegations began following Pennsylvania's lead, and also
>> > considered walking out. ... and ever since those documents were
>> > signed the people who hold power have strengthened THEIR rights
>> > (the constitution) and weakened ours (the so-called Bill of Rights)
>>
>> Don't believe it.  The rights remain among the People and no Court is
>> going to be able to argue otherwise.  The Left has GIVEN away power,
>> mostly to media (do you question the veracity of national news?),
>> which is why the Internet is so important.
>
>




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr  6 13:12:15 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 16:12:15 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <57056D9F.1090608@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/06/2016 08:49 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> 
> Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during
> your lifetime?
> 
> Also increase in  major natural disasters (not counting m$
> products/ services)?
> 
> I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.

In Central Florida in the 1960s, midwinter frost was very often
present in the morning in most open areas (think suburban yards).
By the 1980s frost was very rarely seen, and many who have lived
in the area since 2000 or so have never seen frost.  From at least
the 1960s through 1980s, seasonal hard freezes were seen during
most winters.  Since around 2000, hard freezes only happen when
major storm fronts come down from the Arctic.

In the same part of the world, a widespread and very visible
native plant called the beauty berry would produce the purple
berries it is named for in early fall, shortly after the last hot
day of the year.  This performance was synchronized across
hundreds of square miles.  Beginning in the late 1990s, the beauty
berry is no longer a reliable predictor of the weather:  It now
produces its berries in isolated patches, across a span of about
six weeks.

I think NASA, NOAA, and about 97% of geophysicists have noticed a
few things, too.  The physical models that account for and now
predict their observations are stupidly simple and easy to
understand - if one is willing to make the effort.

As for natural disasters, that's an awfully broad category.  The
more networked the world becomes, and the more motivated press
agencies are to present sensational images, the smaller the event
that qualifies as a "disaster" /and/ the more people hear about
them.  I suspect that any observed "increase" over the last few
decades would most likely be an illusion.

:o)






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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 13:46:45 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 17:46:45 -0300
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFJyfaNSsfpZ-Smu4iuUUXKVDv7qhUNroTPjY-Ac3gSmCdyMSw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_gniJ_ZKBmuisYLiTbK=6QvcMvJQKfm9QMCDOM5YbxwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr9cR5Gu3MSkVHuYGS+-GEQhn52J_myCgEM35FM7P5OR+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528D0.1070105@riseup.net>
 <CAMjeLr-GE+UWgfkJtebjYqyDrQ7ut=SFz_U++v3VLx6u2mSAfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57057617.064a370a.d7c80.ffff981c@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 14:43:42 -0500
Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/6/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > Xer0Dynamite wrote:
> >> The solution for fixing the State of America (which is the first
> >> domino in the chain) is to remember that the American Revolution
> >> fought for the same ideals
> >
> > That's nice except, despite vicious rumors to the contrary
> > indoctrinated in 'Mericans by the mind modification programs they
> > call "Schools", there was no "American Revolution". Revolutions are
> > based on ideologies. Greed is not an ideology.
> 
> No, the American Revolution was fought to bring the colonies
> independence from tyranny

	LMAO!!!!

	There was no revolution. There was a coup d'etat carried by the
	worst shitbags on the planet, who replaced british 'tyranny'
	with their own. Notice how even  the british psychos abolished
	slavery before the americunts. 


> and instigated by the Boston Tea Party
> incident and the Declaration of Independence.  The latter is good to
> re-read to see very pointedly the ideals held.
> 
> > Any simple perusal of the Constitution shows
> > it is about trade relations between the states, and nations, and
> > private property rights, to the advantage of a microscopic
> > percentage of the people on the continent at that time, and perhaps
> > moreso now.
> 
> That may be your interpretation, but given the foundation of "which it
> stands" and by the letter of the Law, you have tremendous advantage
> you can leverage on you, the individual's, behalf--regardless of how
> corrupt various Legislative acts have made the Law as it stands today.
> Remember the Bar Association is an unconstitutional monopoly that has
> intimidated people out of their own rights by convincing them that the
> law belongs to them.  Not so.  Even if they argue that they wrote a
> Law, it is up to the elected Official to enforce it AND the Court to
> uphold it as obeying the SPIRIT of the law (not the LETTER).
> 
> Constitutionally, police have no power EXCEPT as authorized by your
> elected leader.  They are not mentioned at all in the Constitution.
> Frankly, the whole federal government is a mess, and if you get
> arrested for some heinous crime like copying data from a corporate
> server somewhere, you need to point out that the federal executive
> branch (which would be probably doing the arrest) is a schizoid,
> psychotic mess and should not be trusted.  (To wit:  the "Department
> of Justice".... under.... the Executive Branch. WTF?  Issues of
> Justice are handled by the Judicial BRANCH.  It's not up to the
> Executive to decide that they're executing Justice.)
> 
> > The Bill of Rights is for the rest of us, and it was hard fought,
> > almost causing the Constitution to have never been signed at all
> > when delegations began following Pennsylvania's lead, and also
> > considered walking out. ... and ever since those documents were
> > signed the people who hold power have strengthened THEIR rights
> > (the constitution) and weakened ours (the so-called Bill of Rights)
> 
> Don't believe it.  The rights remain among the People and no Court is
> going to be able to argue otherwise.  The Left has GIVEN away power,
> mostly to media (do you question the veracity of national news?),
> which is why the Internet is so important.




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 16:28:52 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 18:28:52 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr-6UqtPtLjsPOS4vvazYDG1jXzfWuMPDB0kjvd31LxdJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr_5F4m9S3f_9F=CAo2mon8+BMLXoqnZqCxVRwaRtQkz0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/16, I <beatthebastards at inbox.com> wrote:
> "I've seen prisons."!!

Sorry.  I should have been more clear.  I've been assaulted three
times by police fighting for justice in America.  I've seen them on
the inside.  I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.

They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.

There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
answer -- and ANSWERED.)

\0xD




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 17:04:43 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:04:43 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQKFri3Q_FQkZUXaM6gqDM2hxaW_+vnwNPSvDu7LyOp1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr-6UqtPtLjsPOS4vvazYDG1jXzfWuMPDB0kjvd31LxdJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
 <CAMjeLr_5F4m9S3f_9F=CAo2mon8+BMLXoqnZqCxVRwaRtQkz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQKFri3Q_FQkZUXaM6gqDM2hxaW_+vnwNPSvDu7LyOp1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr9unHypxOC5uY3hN4-uryPaOF_7A-38w1Kh+ZsxYoq2wA@mail.gmail.com>

> Ahh, those American police, fighting for justice like the rest of us
> should be. What great examples they set.

Agreed, but remember not only are they only 1 branch of the US
government, if they're acting without the authority and direction of
the ELECTED executive, you are at a better legal position than they.

>> I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
>> order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.
>
> Just as well you've clarified the basis of such MASTERY WITH
> CAPITALISATIONS, MAKES IT REALLY CLEAR FOR ME AT LEAST, PROBABLY FOR
> OTHERS TOO.

Hey, my VT220 doesn't allow italics.  And it's simpler to hold down
the shift key when typing than searching for asteriks.

>> They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
>> but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.
>
> I agree with you, but it can be bloody tough getting to the point of
> remaining in one's center in the face of the blatant corruption and
> psychological attacks of a Magistrate or "judge".

Remaining in one's center yes.  Blatant corruption by a Judge, show
me.  Most every time people are victims to Judges who expect certain
kinds of proceedings that decades of lawyers have spoiled them with.
You have to remind them that it's a gov't of the People, not lawyers.

>> There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
>> nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
>> They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
>> they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
>> answer -- and ANSWERED.)
>
> Very good, perhaps would be useful to share some of your successes
> with the rest of us. Yes, there's a whole movement which can be
> googled, but I'm responding to you raising specific and personal
> events - many of us are interested in actual events, in particular
> successes, not hearsay.

Well I'm responding also to the idea that people are victims, they are
not.  They are usually complicit actors and beneficiaries of the
SYSTEM.  My personal story is too complex about how a taser shredded
my immune system so that now I can hardly fight for anything due to
the clinical depression.

Marxos




From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Apr  6 16:34:43 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:34:43 +0000
Subject: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a 'limited
 hangout' then...
In-Reply-To: <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-jSnb1VkoG7TCJb+dFUDzQ9_9g4dNOokBYYSbFkaaa0g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160404074018.GA643@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1633414.r6mfhQyZCI@lapuntu> <5702B1D2.4030700@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRVvk2yVNtTZF739t7nVLBkU2rUUDLj3LVFd1BoKk+m6A@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> rysiek wrote:
>> Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski pisze:
>>> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
>>>> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
>>>> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
>>>> Fonseca.
>>> What is the main point?
>>>
>>> The law is written by the rich for the rich.
>>>
>>> I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
>>> and worse stuff.
>>>
>>> What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke local
>>> laws and have more virtual money than expected?
>> You're right, none. I suggest you don't read it, ignore it, and hence make
>>
>> your prophecy self-fulfilling. It will give you a warm fuzzy feeling
>> inside,
>> I'm sure. :)
>>
>> For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
>> https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
>>
>
> About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence agencies
> with special thank to the "International Consortium of Investigative
> Journalists" (ICIJ), which Pepe Escobar notes is funded by the "Center
> for Public Integrity"... IOW:
>
> "...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
> Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"
>
>
> One of his commenters:
>
> "The  Panama Papers are the exact kind of weaponized Psyops posing as an
> 'activist leak' I wanted to see from Hybrid Warfare."
>
>
>     THE ULTIMATE LIMITED HANGOUT LEAK
>
>     Put on your Panama hat and dance the leak.
>
>     And if you believe in the integrity of the "International Consortium
>     of Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ), I got a made in Shenzhen
>     Panama hat to sell ya.
>
>     I never was, and never will be, a member of this racket; well,
>     people asked me, and I'm answering.
>
>     The ICIJ gets its cash and its "organizational procedure" via the
>     Exceptionalistan-based Center for Public Integrity. The money comes
>     from: Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Faimly Fund,
>     Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket.
>
>     This alleged most massive leak ever was obtained by - what else - US
>     intel.
>
>     But the REAL leak will never be known. Even the uber-pathetic
>     Grauniad admitted, on the record, that "much of the leaked material
>     will remain private".
>
>     Why? Because it DIRECTLY implicates a gaggle of Western
>     0.00000000001% multibillionaires and corporations. All of them play
>     the offshore casino game.
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027375976678
> https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027598731678

Pepe's article not on Facebook version:
http://russia-insider.com/en/dance-panama-papers-limited-hangout-leak/ri13765

Well, at least clear directions for those with a genuine intent to
infiltrate and leak^B^B^B<ahem> axe to grind... don't wink now.




From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Apr  6 16:46:40 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:46:40 +0000
Subject: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr_5F4m9S3f_9F=CAo2mon8+BMLXoqnZqCxVRwaRtQkz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMjeLr-6UqtPtLjsPOS4vvazYDG1jXzfWuMPDB0kjvd31LxdJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
 <CAMjeLr_5F4m9S3f_9F=CAo2mon8+BMLXoqnZqCxVRwaRtQkz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQKFri3Q_FQkZUXaM6gqDM2hxaW_+vnwNPSvDu7LyOp1g@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/16, Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/6/16, I <beatthebastards at inbox.com> wrote:
>> "I've seen prisons."!!
>
> Sorry.  I should have been more clear.  I've been assaulted three
> times by police fighting for justice in America.

Ahh, those American police, fighting for justice like the rest of us
should be. What great examples they set.


> I've seen them on the inside.

Male or female police?


> I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
> order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.

Just as well you've clarified the basis of such MASTERY WITH
CAPITALISATIONS, MAKES IT REALLY CLEAR FOR ME AT LEAST, PROBABLY FOR
OTHERS TOO.


> They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
> but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.

I agree with you, but it can be bloody tough getting to the point of
remaining in one's center in the face of the blatant corruption and
psychological attacks of a Magistrate or "judge".


> There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
> nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
> They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
> they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
> answer -- and ANSWERED.)

Very good, perhaps would be useful to share some of your successes
with the rest of us. Yes, there's a whole movement which can be
googled, but I'm responding to you raising specific and personal
events - many of us are interested in actual events, in particular
successes, not hearsay.

Regards,
Zenaan




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Wed Apr  6 22:12:11 2016
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:12:11 +0000
Subject: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C3B53A@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

>"I've seen prisons."!!

I've seen troopships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

Peter.









From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Apr  7 01:26:33 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:26:33 +0000
Subject: Austrian military chief displays subtly rebellious attitude - America
 cringes
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ3zd83rScqyMPVGFzXJuvJuaAwd0i6TCNiZ2gK7-tnZw@mail.gmail.com>

Can't quite call him punk, yet.

https://www.rt.com/news/338641-russia-austria-cooperation-military/
'Russia closer to Austria than other major world powers' - head of
Austrian General Staff in Moscow
Published time: 6 Apr, 2016 12:46
"
Vienna’s top military figure noted that one of the reasons for his
visit to the Russian capital was to disobey others’ orders.
“I’m not going to carry out instructions and follow orders on who's
worth talking to and who's not. That’s exactly the reason why I
decided to pay you a visit,” Austrian General Staff Lieutenant-General
Othmar Commenda said at a meeting with the chief of Russia's General
Staff, First Deputy Defense Minister Valery Gerasimov.
"




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Apr  7 08:53:57 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:53:57 -0700
Subject: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C3B53A@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <cad2ti2_gnij_zkbmuisylitbk=6qvcmvjqkfm9qmcdom5ybxwq@mail.gmail.com>
 <camjelr9cr5gu3mskvhuygs+-geqhn52j_mycgem35fm7p5or+q@mail.gmail.com>
 <cafjyfanssfpz-smu4iuuuxkvdv7qhunrotpjy-ac3gsmcdymsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570528d0.1070105@riseup.net> <570572ad.7060805@riseup.net>
 <camjelr-ge+uwgfkjtebjyqydrq7ut=sfz_u++v3vlx6u2msafw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E24588017AF.000001F9beatthebastards@inbox.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C3B53A@uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <57068295.3070007@riseup.net>

Peter Gutmann wrote:
>> "I've seen prisons."!!
> I've seen troopships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
>
> Peter.
>
>

I've seen: "...bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon, with mother
finally ******,"

    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving
    hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at
    dawn looking for an angry fix,

    ...angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection
    to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night, who poverty and
    tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural
    darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
    contemplating jazz, who bared their brains to Heaven under the El
    and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,
    who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating
    Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war, who were
    expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on
    the windows of the skull, who cowered in unshaven rooms in
    underwear, burning their money in wastebaskets and listening to the
    Terror through the wall, who got busted in their pubic beards
    returning through Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York, who
    ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in Paradise Alley,
    death, or purgatoried their torsos night after night with dreams,
    with drugs, with waking nightmares, alcohol and cock and endless
    balls, incomparable blind streets of shuddering cloud and lightning
    in the mind leaping toward poles of Canada & Paterson, illuminating
    all the motionless world of Time between, Peyote solidities of
    halls, backyard green tree cemetery dawns, wine drunkenness over the
    rooftops, storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking
    traffic light, sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring
    winter dusks of Brooklyn, ashcan rantings and kind king light of
    mind, who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from
    Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine until the noise of wheels and
    children brought them down shuddering mouth-wracked and battered
    bleak of brain all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo,
    who sank all night in submarine light of Bickford’s floated out and
    sat through the stale beer afternoon in desolate Fugazzi’s,
    listening to the crack of doom on the hydrogen jukebox, who talked
    continuously seventy hours from park to pad to bar to Bellevue to
    museum to the Brooklyn Bridge, a lost battalion of platonic
    conversationalists jumping down the stoops off fire escapes off
    windowsills off Empire State out of the moon, yacketayakking
    screaming vomiting whispering facts and memories and anecdotes and
    eyeball kicks and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars, whole
    intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days and nights with
    brilliant eyes, meat for the Synagogue cast on the pavement, who
    vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a trail of ambiguous
    picture postcards of Atlantic City Hall, suffering Eastern sweats
    and Tangerian bone-grindings and migraines of China under
    junk-withdrawal in Newark’s bleak furnished room, who wandered
    around and around at midnight in the railroad yard wondering where
    to go, and went, leaving no broken hearts, who lit cigarettes in
    boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing through snow toward lonesome farms
    in grandfather night, who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross
    telepathy and bop kabbalah because the cosmos instinctively vibrated
    at their feet in Kansas, who loned it through the streets of Idaho
    seeking visionary indian angels who were visionary indian angels,
    who thought they were only mad when Baltimore gleamed in
    supernatural ecstasy, who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of
    Oklahoma on the impulse of winter midnight streetlight smalltown
    rain, who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz
    or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse
    about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to
    Africa, who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving behind
    nothing but the shadow of dungarees and the lava and ash of poetry
    scattered in fireplace Chicago, who reappeared on the West Coast
    investigating the FBI in beards and shorts with big pacifist eyes
    sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets, who
    burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting the narcotic tobacco
    haze of Capitalism, who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in
    Union Square weeping and undressing while the sirens of Los Alamos
    wailed them down, and wailed down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry
    also wailed, who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked and
    trembling before the machinery of other skeletons, who bit
    detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars for
    committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and
    intoxication, who howled on their knees in the subway and were
    dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts, who let
    themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and
    screamed with joy, who blew and were blown by those human seraphim,
    the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love, who balled in
    the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public
    parks and cemeteries scattering their semen freely to whomever come
    who may, who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a
    sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath when the blond & naked
    angel came to pierce them with a sword, who lost their loveboys to
    the three old shrews of fate the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual
    dollar the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb and the one
    eyed shrew that does nothing but sit on her ass and snip the
    intellectual golden threads of the craftsman’s loom, who copulated
    ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of beer a sweetheart a package
    of cigarettes a candle and fell off the bed, and continued along the
    floor and down the hall and ended fainting on the wall with a vision
    of ultimate cunt and come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,
    who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling in the
    sunset, and were red eyed in the morning but prepared to sweeten the
    snatch of the sunrise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked in
    the lake, who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad stolen
    night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these poems, cocksman and Adonis of
    Denver—joy to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls in empty
    lots & diner backyards, moviehouses’ rickety rows, on mountaintops
    in caves or with gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely
    petticoat upliftings & especially secret gas-station solipsisms of
    johns, & hometown alleys too, who faded out in vast sordid movies,
    were shifted in dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and picked
    themselves up out of basements hung-over with heartless Tokay and
    horrors of Third Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment
    offices, who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on the
    snowbank docks waiting for a door in the East River to open to a
    room full of steam-heat and opium, who created great suicidal dramas
    on the apartment cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime blur
    floodlight of the moon & their heads shall be crowned with laurel in
    oblivion, who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested the
    crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of Bowery, who wept at the
    romance of the streets with their pushcarts full of onions and bad
    music, who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge,
    and rose up to build harpsichords in their lofts, who coughed on the
    sixth floor of Harlem crowned with flame under the tubercular sky
    surrounded by orange crates of theology, who scribbled all night
    rocking and rolling over lofty incantations which in the yellow
    morning were stanzas of gibberish, who cooked rotten animals lung
    heart feet tail borsht & tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable
    kingdom, who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for an
    egg, who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for
    Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks fell on their heads every
    day for the next decade, who cut their wrists three times
    successively unsuccessfully, gave up and were forced to open antique
    stores where they thought they were growing old and cried, who were
    burned alive in their innocent flannel suits on Madison Avenue amid
    blasts of leaden verse & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments
    of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the fairies of
    advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent editors, or
    were run down by the drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality, who
    jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually happened and walked
    away unknown and forgotten into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup
    alleyways & firetrucks, not even one free beer, who sang out of
    their windows in despair, fell out of the subway window, jumped in
    the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes, cried all over the street,
    danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records of
    nostalgic European 1930s German jazz finished the whiskey and threw
    up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans in their ears and the
    blast of colossal steamwhistles, who barreled down the highways of
    the past journeying to each other’s hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude
    watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation, who drove crosscountry
    seventytwo hours to find out if I had a vision or you had a vision
    or he had a vision to find out Eternity, who journeyed to Denver,
    who died in Denver, who came back to Denver & waited in vain, who
    watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and finally went
    away to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes,
    who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying for each
    other’s salvation and light and breasts, until the soul illuminated
    its hair for a second, who crashed through their minds in jail
    waiting for impossible criminals with golden heads and the charm of
    reality in their hearts who sang sweet blues to Alcatraz, who
    retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky Mount to tender
    Buddha or Tangiers to boys or Southern Pacific to the black
    locomotive or Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the daisychain or
    grave, who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hypnotism &
    were left with their insanity & their hands & a hung jury, who threw
    potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism and subsequently presented
    themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads
    and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,
    and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin Metrazol
    electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational therapy pingpong
    & amnesia, who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic
    pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia, returning years later
    truly bald except for a wig of blood, and tears and fingers, to the
    visible madman doom of the wards of the madtowns of the East,
    Pilgrim State’s Rockland’s and Greystone’s foetid halls, bickering
    with the echoes of the soul, rocking and rolling in the midnight
    solitude-bench dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a nightmare,
    bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon, with mother finally
    ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement
    window, and the last door closed at 4 A.M. and the last telephone
    slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied
    down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose
    twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary,
    nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination— ah, Carl, while
    you are not safe I am not safe, and now you’re really in the total
    animal soup of time— and who therefore ran through the icy streets
    obsessed with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use of the
    ellipsis catalogue a variable measure and the vibrating plane, who
    dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images
    juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual
    images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of
    consciousness together jumping with sensation of Pater Omnipotens
    Aeterna Deus to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose
    and stand before you speechless and intelligent and shaking with
    shame, rejected yet confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm
    of thought in his naked and endless head, the madman bum and angel
    beat in Time, unknown, yet putting down here what might be left to
    say in time come after death, and rose reincarnate in the ghostly
    clothes of jazz in the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the
    suffering of America’s naked mind for love into an eli eli lamma
    lamma sabacthani saxophone cry that shivered the cities down to the
    last radio with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered out
    of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.


    End Stanza I

    Howl By Allen Ginsberg

    For Carl Solomon

    http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/179381


-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 22:52:00 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 01:52:00 -0400
Subject: Tor ExitNode with solar powered drone and by protection from church
 like kopimism
In-Reply-To: <151359932.826460.1460079978419.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail10.arcor-online.net>
References: <151359932.826460.1460079978419.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail10.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28HBr4T2xCwoGtUdDk7+LaEn42MTUuh6X4Kh+L=XD3w0g@mail.gmail.com>

Vids ;)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: tor_talk at arcor.de
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 03:46:18 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [tor-talk] Tor ExitNode with solar powered drone and by
protection from church like kopimism
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org

Hi Tor Talkers,

i saw the bags of #WeWillRebuild and the general problem for a Tor
ExitNode at home
the thoughts
===
why don't you put it to a drone or two, one drone to do the ExitNode
and the second for the solar power?

that couldn't be that heavy a drone can't carry even when you can add
a chainsaw to a drone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Viwwetf0gU
Flying chainsaw

or to lift 33kg/72,7Lb beer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf6JKJyFLVI
Heavy Lift 1135mm 33kg Hobby King Beer Lift

the drone(s) must not fly all the time if you have a place it/they
could stay put and out of reach (that avoids the noise the drones
make, too) if you look a bit paranoia do a alarm system on it so you
get a notice if your drones get touched

maybe you can extend the distance with some literally bridges like
wlan/handy/burners

depending on the country you need a license to fly a drone or/and an
insurance or/and to be a member of an air/flying association to cover
the damage your drone might do to others when it isn't that save for
the drone during a windstorm
===
another thought is more handycrafty
put the exit node in a thing that fits in the surroundings outside the
home (stone, tree, grass) with a 3D printer you easily get the best
fit
===
there is a library project, too
https://libraryfreedomproject.org/torexitpilotphase1/

at last they need more popularity

https://www.propublica.org/article/library-support-anonymous-internet-browsing-effort-stops-after-dhs-email
Faced with police and city concerns, library director Fleming agreed
to turn off the Tor relay temporarily until the board could
reconsider. “We need to find out what the community thinks,” he said.
“The only groups that have been represented so far are the Police
Department and City Hall.”

Jacob did some Tor Exits in museum, i heard of.
perhaps some churches , art galleries or med clinics will spend asyl
for Tor, too.
the church kopimism will do that, i suppose so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopimism
The Church, based in Sweden, has been officially recognized by the
Swedish Legal, Financial and Administrative Services Agency as a
religious community, after three application attempts.

perhaps there are other Tor user/exitnods protective synergetic
effects by the one or other constitution. so the time you spend to
avoid law enforcement at home you could spend to persuade someone but
the person must do that on free will not while you have induced your
will to the person.
-- 
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk




From alfie at alfie.wtf  Fri Apr  8 04:14:18 2016
From: alfie at alfie.wtf (Alfie John)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:14:18 +0000
Subject: How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes?
In-Reply-To: <20160408091407.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160408091407.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20160408111418.GL12763@dosf1.alfie.wtf>

On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 12:14:07PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes:
> set up clearnet illegal site, visit it from tor hitting as many exit
> nodes as possible, raid them from the logs?
> 
> My explanation is they don't want to do it.

You only need to raid a single exit node loudly to scare off the rest...

Ho Lu said to him: "I have carefully perused your 13 chapters. May I submit
your theory of managing soldiers to a slight test?"

Sun Tzu replied: "You may."

Ho Lu asked: "May the test be applied to women?"

The answer was again in the affirmative, so arrangements were made to bring 180
ladies out of the Palace. Sun Tzu divided them into two companies, and placed
one of the King's favorite concubines at the head of each. He then bade them
all take spears in their hands, and addressed them thus: "I presume you know
the difference between front and back, right hand and left hand?"

The girls replied: Yes.

Sun Tzu went on: "When I say "Eyes front," you must look straight ahead. When I
say "Left turn," you must face towards your left hand. When I say "Right turn,"
you must face towards your right hand. When I say "About turn," you must face
right round towards your back."

Again the girls assented. The words of command having been thus explained, he
set up the halberds and battle-axes in order to begin the drill. Then, to the
sound of drums, he gave the order "Right turn." But the girls only burst out
laughing. Sun Tzu said: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if
orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame."

So he started drilling them again, and this time gave the order "Left turn,"
whereupon the girls once more burst into fits of laughter. Sun Tzu: "If words
of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood,
the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers
nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers."

So saying, he ordered the leaders of the two companies to be beheaded. Now the
king of Wu was watching the scene from the top of a raised pavilion; and when
he saw that his favorite concubines were about to be executed, he was greatly
alarmed and hurriedly sent down the following message: "We are now quite
satisfied as to our general's ability to handle troops. If We are bereft of
these two concubines, our meat and drink will lose their savor. It is our wish
that they shall not be beheaded."

Sun Tzu replied: "Having once received His Majesty's commission to be the
general of his forces, there are certain commands of His Majesty which, acting
in that capacity, I am unable to accept."

Accordingly, he had the two leaders beheaded, and straightway installed the
pair next in order as leaders in their place. When this had been done, the drum
was sounded for the drill once more; and the girls went through all the
evolutions, turning to the right or to the left, marching ahead or wheeling
back, kneeling or standing, with perfect accuracy and precision, not venturing
to utter a sound. Then Sun Tzu sent a messenger to the King saying: "Your
soldiers, Sire, are now properly drilled and disciplined, and ready for your
majesty's inspection. They can be put to any use that their sovereign may
desire; bid them go through fire and water, and they will not disobey."

Alfie

-- 
Alfie John
https://www.alfie.wtf




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Apr  8 02:14:07 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 12:14:07 +0300
Subject: How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes?
Message-ID: <20160408091407.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>

How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes:
set up clearnet illegal site, visit it from tor hitting as many exit
nodes as possible, raid them from the logs?

My explanation is they don't want to do it.




From muntudebugger at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 05:28:19 2016
From: muntudebugger at gmail.com (Muntu Debugger)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 15:28:19 +0300
Subject: is this spam?
Message-ID: <CAM2GhrAZ5M5DL61pP7SLJDoCO2GWXLuC2pHrrE85d-TgikCq2w@mail.gmail.com>

I know you will click https://goo.gl/UMIzzy and like what it says!!
No Kidding

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 6:54 PM, <cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org> wrote:

> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>         cypherpunks at cpunks.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation (Xer0Dynamite)
>    2. Re: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
>       'limited hangout' then... (Zenaan Harkness)
>    3. Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation (Zenaan Harkness)
>    4. Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation (Xer0Dynamite)
>    5. RE: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
>       (Peter Gutmann)
>    6. Austrian military chief displays subtly rebellious attitude -
>       America cringes (Zenaan Harkness)
>    7. Re: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation (Rayzer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 18:28:52 -0500
> From: Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com>
> To: I <beatthebastards at inbox.com>
> Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
> Message-ID:
>         <CAMjeLr_5F4m9S3f_9F=
> CAo2mon8+BMLXoqnZqCxVRwaRtQkz0Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 4/6/16, I <beatthebastards at inbox.com> wrote:
> > "I've seen prisons."!!
>
> Sorry.  I should have been more clear.  I've been assaulted three
> times by police fighting for justice in America.  I've seen them on
> the inside.  I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
> order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.
>
> They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
> but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.
>
> There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
> nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
> They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
> they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
> answer -- and ANSWERED.)
>
> \0xD
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:34:43 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: The Panama Papers: If you thought Snowden's Leaks were a
>         'limited hangout' then...
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOsGNSRVvk2yVNtTZF739t7nVLBkU2rUUDLj3LVFd1BoKk+m6A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 4/4/16, Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > rysiek wrote:
> >> Dnia poniedziałek, 4 kwietnia 2016 10:40:18 CEST Georgi Guninski pisze:
> >>> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 09:13:30PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> >>>> http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/en/
> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
> >>>> The Panama Papers is a news leak of confidential documents from an
> >>>> offshore tax haven originating from the Panamanian law firm Mossack
> >>>> Fonseca.
> >>> What is the main point?
> >>>
> >>> The law is written by the rich for the rich.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect a lot of laws have subtle workarounds for "optimizing taxes"
> >>> and worse stuff.
> >>>
> >>> What other consequences this may have except to show someone broke
> local
> >>> laws and have more virtual money than expected?
> >> You're right, none. I suggest you don't read it, ignore it, and hence
> make
> >>
> >> your prophecy self-fulfilling. It will give you a warm fuzzy feeling
> >> inside,
> >> I'm sure. :)
> >>
> >> For the rest of you that might be interested, here's another source:
> >> https://www.occrp.org/en/panamapapers/
> >>
> >
> > About your Panama Papers ... Brought to you by US intelligence agencies
> > with special thank to the "International Consortium of Investigative
> > Journalists" (ICIJ), which Pepe Escobar notes is funded by the "Center
> > for Public Integrity"... IOW:
> >
> > "...the Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Family Fund,
> > Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket"
> >
> >
> > One of his commenters:
> >
> > "The  Panama Papers are the exact kind of weaponized Psyops posing as an
> > 'activist leak' I wanted to see from Hybrid Warfare."
> >
> >
> >     THE ULTIMATE LIMITED HANGOUT LEAK
> >
> >     Put on your Panama hat and dance the leak.
> >
> >     And if you believe in the integrity of the "International Consortium
> >     of Investigative Journalists" (ICIJ), I got a made in Shenzhen
> >     Panama hat to sell ya.
> >
> >     I never was, and never will be, a member of this racket; well,
> >     people asked me, and I'm answering.
> >
> >     The ICIJ gets its cash and its "organizational procedure" via the
> >     Exceptionalistan-based Center for Public Integrity. The money comes
> >     from: Ford Foundation, Carnegie Endowment, Rockefeller Faimly Fund,
> >     Kellogg Foundation and the Soros racket.
> >
> >     This alleged most massive leak ever was obtained by - what else - US
> >     intel.
> >
> >     But the REAL leak will never be known. Even the uber-pathetic
> >     Grauniad admitted, on the record, that "much of the leaked material
> >     will remain private".
> >
> >     Why? Because it DIRECTLY implicates a gaggle of Western
> >     0.00000000001% multibillionaires and corporations. All of them play
> >     the offshore casino game.
> >
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027375976678
> > https://www.facebook.com/pepe.escobar.77377/posts/10154027598731678
>
> Pepe's article not on Facebook version:
>
> http://russia-insider.com/en/dance-panama-papers-limited-hangout-leak/ri13765
>
> Well, at least clear directions for those with a genuine intent to
> infiltrate and leak^B^B^B<ahem> axe to grind... don't wink now.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:46:40 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOsGNSQKFri3Q_FQkZUXaM6gqDM2hxaW_+vnwNPSvDu7LyOp1g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 4/6/16, Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 4/6/16, I <beatthebastards at inbox.com> wrote:
> >> "I've seen prisons."!!
> >
> > Sorry.  I should have been more clear.  I've been assaulted three
> > times by police fighting for justice in America.
>
> Ahh, those American police, fighting for justice like the rest of us
> should be. What great examples they set.
>
>
> > I've seen them on the inside.
>
> Male or female police?
>
>
> > I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
> > order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.
>
> Just as well you've clarified the basis of such MASTERY WITH
> CAPITALISATIONS, MAKES IT REALLY CLEAR FOR ME AT LEAST, PROBABLY FOR
> OTHERS TOO.
>
>
> > They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
> > but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.
>
> I agree with you, but it can be bloody tough getting to the point of
> remaining in one's center in the face of the blatant corruption and
> psychological attacks of a Magistrate or "judge".
>
>
> > There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
> > nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
> > They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
> > they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
> > answer -- and ANSWERED.)
>
> Very good, perhaps would be useful to share some of your successes
> with the rest of us. Yes, there's a whole movement which can be
> googled, but I'm responding to you raising specific and personal
> events - many of us are interested in actual events, in particular
> successes, not hearsay.
>
> Regards,
> Zenaan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:04:43 -0500
> From: Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com>
> To: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAMjeLr9unHypxOC5uY3hN4-uryPaOF_7A-38w1Kh+ZsxYoq2wA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> > Ahh, those American police, fighting for justice like the rest of us
> > should be. What great examples they set.
>
> Agreed, but remember not only are they only 1 branch of the US
> government, if they're acting without the authority and direction of
> the ELECTED executive, you are at a better legal position than they.
>
> >> I've mastered the Law it takes to defend yourself and in
> >> order to do that YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE THE BASIS OF THE LAW.
> >
> > Just as well you've clarified the basis of such MASTERY WITH
> > CAPITALISATIONS, MAKES IT REALLY CLEAR FOR ME AT LEAST, PROBABLY FOR
> > OTHERS TOO.
>
> Hey, my VT220 doesn't allow italics.  And it's simpler to hold down
> the shift key when typing than searching for asteriks.
>
> >> They are too thick-headed to appreciate the little guys point of view,
> >> but if you appreciate the law, you can be the victor.
> >
> > I agree with you, but it can be bloody tough getting to the point of
> > remaining in one's center in the face of the blatant corruption and
> > psychological attacks of a Magistrate or "judge".
>
> Remaining in one's center yes.  Blatant corruption by a Judge, show
> me.  Most every time people are victims to Judges who expect certain
> kinds of proceedings that decades of lawyers have spoiled them with.
> You have to remind them that it's a gov't of the People, not lawyers.
>
> >> There's serious injustice as I've said happening in America.  But
> >> nearly everyone you report to is complicit.  They are not victims.
> >> They like their redmeat, their television, their iPhone.  Why should
> >> they fight for those with no voice?  (That's the question I had to
> >> answer -- and ANSWERED.)
> >
> > Very good, perhaps would be useful to share some of your successes
> > with the rest of us. Yes, there's a whole movement which can be
> > googled, but I'm responding to you raising specific and personal
> > events - many of us are interested in actual events, in particular
> > successes, not hearsay.
>
> Well I'm responding also to the idea that people are victims, they are
> not.  They are usually complicit actors and beneficiaries of the
> SYSTEM.  My personal story is too complex about how a taser shredded
> my immune system so that now I can hardly fight for anything due to
> the clinical depression.
>
> Marxos
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 05:12:11 +0000
> From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz>
> To: I <beatthebastards at inbox.com>, "cypherpunks at cpunks.org"
>         <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: RE: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
> Message-ID:
>         <
> 9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C3B53A at uxcn10-tdc05.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >"I've seen prisons."!!
>
> I've seen troopships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
>
> Peter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:26:33 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Austrian military chief displays subtly rebellious attitude -
>         America cringes
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOsGNSQ3zd83rScqyMPVGFzXJuvJuaAwd0i6TCNiZ2gK7-tnZw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Can't quite call him punk, yet.
>
> https://www.rt.com/news/338641-russia-austria-cooperation-military/
> 'Russia closer to Austria than other major world powers' - head of
> Austrian General Staff in Moscow
> Published time: 6 Apr, 2016 12:46
> "
> Vienna’s top military figure noted that one of the reasons for his
> visit to the Russian capital was to disobey others’ orders.
> “I’m not going to carry out instructions and follow orders on who's
> worth talking to and who's not. That’s exactly the reason why I
> decided to pay you a visit,” Austrian General Staff Lieutenant-General
> Othmar Commenda said at a meeting with the chief of Russia's General
> Staff, First Deputy Defense Minister Valery Gerasimov.
> "
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 08:53:57 -0700
> From: Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: [FORGED] Re: [Cryptography] A humble recommendation
> Message-ID: <57068295.3070007 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Peter Gutmann wrote:
> >> "I've seen prisons."!!
> > I've seen troopships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
> >
> > Peter.
> >
> >
>
> I've seen: "...bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon, with mother
> finally ******,"
>
>     I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving
>     hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at
>     dawn looking for an angry fix,
>
>     ...angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection
>     to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night, who poverty and
>     tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural
>     darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
>     contemplating jazz, who bared their brains to Heaven under the El
>     and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,
>     who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating
>     Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war, who were
>     expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on
>     the windows of the skull, who cowered in unshaven rooms in
>     underwear, burning their money in wastebaskets and listening to the
>     Terror through the wall, who got busted in their pubic beards
>     returning through Laredo with a belt of marijuana for New York, who
>     ate fire in paint hotels or drank turpentine in Paradise Alley,
>     death, or purgatoried their torsos night after night with dreams,
>     with drugs, with waking nightmares, alcohol and cock and endless
>     balls, incomparable blind streets of shuddering cloud and lightning
>     in the mind leaping toward poles of Canada & Paterson, illuminating
>     all the motionless world of Time between, Peyote solidities of
>     halls, backyard green tree cemetery dawns, wine drunkenness over the
>     rooftops, storefront boroughs of teahead joyride neon blinking
>     traffic light, sun and moon and tree vibrations in the roaring
>     winter dusks of Brooklyn, ashcan rantings and kind king light of
>     mind, who chained themselves to subways for the endless ride from
>     Battery to holy Bronx on benzedrine until the noise of wheels and
>     children brought them down shuddering mouth-wracked and battered
>     bleak of brain all drained of brilliance in the drear light of Zoo,
>     who sank all night in submarine light of Bickford’s floated out and
>     sat through the stale beer afternoon in desolate Fugazzi’s,
>     listening to the crack of doom on the hydrogen jukebox, who talked
>     continuously seventy hours from park to pad to bar to Bellevue to
>     museum to the Brooklyn Bridge, a lost battalion of platonic
>     conversationalists jumping down the stoops off fire escapes off
>     windowsills off Empire State out of the moon, yacketayakking
>     screaming vomiting whispering facts and memories and anecdotes and
>     eyeball kicks and shocks of hospitals and jails and wars, whole
>     intellects disgorged in total recall for seven days and nights with
>     brilliant eyes, meat for the Synagogue cast on the pavement, who
>     vanished into nowhere Zen New Jersey leaving a trail of ambiguous
>     picture postcards of Atlantic City Hall, suffering Eastern sweats
>     and Tangerian bone-grindings and migraines of China under
>     junk-withdrawal in Newark’s bleak furnished room, who wandered
>     around and around at midnight in the railroad yard wondering where
>     to go, and went, leaving no broken hearts, who lit cigarettes in
>     boxcars boxcars boxcars racketing through snow toward lonesome farms
>     in grandfather night, who studied Plotinus Poe St. John of the Cross
>     telepathy and bop kabbalah because the cosmos instinctively vibrated
>     at their feet in Kansas, who loned it through the streets of Idaho
>     seeking visionary indian angels who were visionary indian angels,
>     who thought they were only mad when Baltimore gleamed in
>     supernatural ecstasy, who jumped in limousines with the Chinaman of
>     Oklahoma on the impulse of winter midnight streetlight smalltown
>     rain, who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz
>     or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse
>     about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to
>     Africa, who disappeared into the volcanoes of Mexico leaving behind
>     nothing but the shadow of dungarees and the lava and ash of poetry
>     scattered in fireplace Chicago, who reappeared on the West Coast
>     investigating the FBI in beards and shorts with big pacifist eyes
>     sexy in their dark skin passing out incomprehensible leaflets, who
>     burned cigarette holes in their arms protesting the narcotic tobacco
>     haze of Capitalism, who distributed Supercommunist pamphlets in
>     Union Square weeping and undressing while the sirens of Los Alamos
>     wailed them down, and wailed down Wall, and the Staten Island ferry
>     also wailed, who broke down crying in white gymnasiums naked and
>     trembling before the machinery of other skeletons, who bit
>     detectives in the neck and shrieked with delight in policecars for
>     committing no crime but their own wild cooking pederasty and
>     intoxication, who howled on their knees in the subway and were
>     dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts, who let
>     themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and
>     screamed with joy, who blew and were blown by those human seraphim,
>     the sailors, caresses of Atlantic and Caribbean love, who balled in
>     the morning in the evenings in rosegardens and the grass of public
>     parks and cemeteries scattering their semen freely to whomever come
>     who may, who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a
>     sob behind a partition in a Turkish Bath when the blond & naked
>     angel came to pierce them with a sword, who lost their loveboys to
>     the three old shrews of fate the one eyed shrew of the heterosexual
>     dollar the one eyed shrew that winks out of the womb and the one
>     eyed shrew that does nothing but sit on her ass and snip the
>     intellectual golden threads of the craftsman’s loom, who copulated
>     ecstatic and insatiate with a bottle of beer a sweetheart a package
>     of cigarettes a candle and fell off the bed, and continued along the
>     floor and down the hall and ended fainting on the wall with a vision
>     of ultimate cunt and come eluding the last gyzym of consciousness,
>     who sweetened the snatches of a million girls trembling in the
>     sunset, and were red eyed in the morning but prepared to sweeten the
>     snatch of the sunrise, flashing buttocks under barns and naked in
>     the lake, who went out whoring through Colorado in myriad stolen
>     night-cars, N.C., secret hero of these poems, cocksman and Adonis of
>     Denver—joy to the memory of his innumerable lays of girls in empty
>     lots & diner backyards, moviehouses’ rickety rows, on mountaintops
>     in caves or with gaunt waitresses in familiar roadside lonely
>     petticoat upliftings & especially secret gas-station solipsisms of
>     johns, & hometown alleys too, who faded out in vast sordid movies,
>     were shifted in dreams, woke on a sudden Manhattan, and picked
>     themselves up out of basements hung-over with heartless Tokay and
>     horrors of Third Avenue iron dreams & stumbled to unemployment
>     offices, who walked all night with their shoes full of blood on the
>     snowbank docks waiting for a door in the East River to open to a
>     room full of steam-heat and opium, who created great suicidal dramas
>     on the apartment cliff-banks of the Hudson under the wartime blur
>     floodlight of the moon & their heads shall be crowned with laurel in
>     oblivion, who ate the lamb stew of the imagination or digested the
>     crab at the muddy bottom of the rivers of Bowery, who wept at the
>     romance of the streets with their pushcarts full of onions and bad
>     music, who sat in boxes breathing in the darkness under the bridge,
>     and rose up to build harpsichords in their lofts, who coughed on the
>     sixth floor of Harlem crowned with flame under the tubercular sky
>     surrounded by orange crates of theology, who scribbled all night
>     rocking and rolling over lofty incantations which in the yellow
>     morning were stanzas of gibberish, who cooked rotten animals lung
>     heart feet tail borsht & tortillas dreaming of the pure vegetable
>     kingdom, who plunged themselves under meat trucks looking for an
>     egg, who threw their watches off the roof to cast their ballot for
>     Eternity outside of Time, & alarm clocks fell on their heads every
>     day for the next decade, who cut their wrists three times
>     successively unsuccessfully, gave up and were forced to open antique
>     stores where they thought they were growing old and cried, who were
>     burned alive in their innocent flannel suits on Madison Avenue amid
>     blasts of leaden verse & the tanked-up clatter of the iron regiments
>     of fashion & the nitroglycerine shrieks of the fairies of
>     advertising & the mustard gas of sinister intelligent editors, or
>     were run down by the drunken taxicabs of Absolute Reality, who
>     jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge this actually happened and walked
>     away unknown and forgotten into the ghostly daze of Chinatown soup
>     alleyways & firetrucks, not even one free beer, who sang out of
>     their windows in despair, fell out of the subway window, jumped in
>     the filthy Passaic, leaped on negroes, cried all over the street,
>     danced on broken wineglasses barefoot smashed phonograph records of
>     nostalgic European 1930s German jazz finished the whiskey and threw
>     up groaning into the bloody toilet, moans in their ears and the
>     blast of colossal steamwhistles, who barreled down the highways of
>     the past journeying to each other’s hotrod-Golgotha jail-solitude
>     watch or Birmingham jazz incarnation, who drove crosscountry
>     seventytwo hours to find out if I had a vision or you had a vision
>     or he had a vision to find out Eternity, who journeyed to Denver,
>     who died in Denver, who came back to Denver & waited in vain, who
>     watched over Denver & brooded & loned in Denver and finally went
>     away to find out the Time, & now Denver is lonesome for her heroes,
>     who fell on their knees in hopeless cathedrals praying for each
>     other’s salvation and light and breasts, until the soul illuminated
>     its hair for a second, who crashed through their minds in jail
>     waiting for impossible criminals with golden heads and the charm of
>     reality in their hearts who sang sweet blues to Alcatraz, who
>     retired to Mexico to cultivate a habit, or Rocky Mount to tender
>     Buddha or Tangiers to boys or Southern Pacific to the black
>     locomotive or Harvard to Narcissus to Woodlawn to the daisychain or
>     grave, who demanded sanity trials accusing the radio of hypnotism &
>     were left with their insanity & their hands & a hung jury, who threw
>     potato salad at CCNY lecturers on Dadaism and subsequently presented
>     themselves on the granite steps of the madhouse with shaven heads
>     and harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy,
>     and who were given instead the concrete void of insulin Metrazol
>     electricity hydrotherapy psychotherapy occupational therapy pingpong
>     & amnesia, who in humorless protest overturned only one symbolic
>     pingpong table, resting briefly in catatonia, returning years later
>     truly bald except for a wig of blood, and tears and fingers, to the
>     visible madman doom of the wards of the madtowns of the East,
>     Pilgrim State’s Rockland’s and Greystone’s foetid halls, bickering
>     with the echoes of the soul, rocking and rolling in the midnight
>     solitude-bench dolmen-realms of love, dream of life a nightmare,
>     bodies turned to stone as heavy as the moon, with mother finally
>     ******, and the last fantastic book flung out of the tenement
>     window, and the last door closed at 4 A.M. and the last telephone
>     slammed at the wall in reply and the last furnished room emptied
>     down to the last piece of mental furniture, a yellow paper rose
>     twisted on a wire hanger in the closet, and even that imaginary,
>     nothing but a hopeful little bit of hallucination— ah, Carl, while
>     you are not safe I am not safe, and now you’re really in the total
>     animal soup of time— and who therefore ran through the icy streets
>     obsessed with a sudden flash of the alchemy of the use of the
>     ellipsis catalogue a variable measure and the vibrating plane, who
>     dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images
>     juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual
>     images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of
>     consciousness together jumping with sensation of Pater Omnipotens
>     Aeterna Deus to recreate the syntax and measure of poor human prose
>     and stand before you speechless and intelligent and shaking with
>     shame, rejected yet confessing out the soul to conform to the rhythm
>     of thought in his naked and endless head, the madman bum and angel
>     beat in Time, unknown, yet putting down here what might be left to
>     say in time come after death, and rose reincarnate in the ghostly
>     clothes of jazz in the goldhorn shadow of the band and blew the
>     suffering of America’s naked mind for love into an eli eli lamma
>     lamma sabacthani saxophone cry that shivered the cities down to the
>     last radio with the absolute heart of the poem of life butchered out
>     of their own bodies good to eat a thousand years.
>
>
>     End Stanza I
>
>     Howl By Allen Ginsberg
>
>     For Carl Solomon
>
>     http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/179381
>
>
> --
> RR
> "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential
> trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 34, Issue 11
> *******************************************
>
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From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 00:57:46 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 07:57:46 +0000
Subject: When is it necessary to take up arms?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRaYJv9a-OhYjyGBGdFNQPCDLyvgu5Mnt6H5tY1CEMcXw@mail.gmail.com>

Serious analysis interposed with the lighter side of Ukraine's current
predicaments:
http://thesaker.is/ukraine-sitrep-april-8th-2016-by-scott/




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 02:24:11 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 09:24:11 +0000
Subject: How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes?
In-Reply-To: <20160409081101.GA675@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160408091407.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20160408111418.GL12763@dosf1.alfie.wtf>
 <20160409081101.GA675@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSvKDsaPDRkYOD=c7y1=N26kfrQLj=W2VGV_dpP7DLbxw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/9/16, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 11:14:18AM +0000, Alfie John wrote:
>> > My explanation is they don't want to do it.
>>
>> You only need to raid a single exit node loudly to scare off the rest...
>>
>
> Hm, are you sure? IIRC at least several exit nodes have been raided.

Come on, it's the principle! When you're one convict prison commander
with 1000 convicts and only three guards, how do you control them in a
god forsaken outback post like early colonial Australia?

When one plays up, you flog someone else, someone who didn't actually
do anything wrong, someone random. Then they self police. Call it tall
poppy or some better name, but the goal is the point - intimidation
and self censorship, self policing, avoidance of the possible problem
etc, of those who would stand up and be counted e.g. by running a Tor
exit node in the pursuit of freedoms and liberty.

In this modern, civilized, respectable age <ahem>, the arthorratays
can only get away with so much random punishment, but they still try,
creating an environment of "guilty until you prove your own damn
innocence", "we will randomly raid you even though we know your Tor
exit node is a common carrier, and if you don't hand over your
passwords immediately for our infestigation we WILL make your life a
living hell" and variations on the theme.

You have freedoms and rights and inviolable protections, only within
the limits of the interests of the power elite/ bankers/ government/
military industrial complex of the day.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Apr  9 01:11:38 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 11:11:38 +0300
Subject: How comes the cops didn't raid all tor exit nodes?
In-Reply-To: <20160408111418.GL12763@dosf1.alfie.wtf>
References: <20160408091407.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20160408111418.GL12763@dosf1.alfie.wtf>
Message-ID: <20160409081101.GA675@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Apr 08, 2016 at 11:14:18AM +0000, Alfie John wrote:
> > My explanation is they don't want to do it.
> 
> You only need to raid a single exit node loudly to scare off the rest...
>

Hm, are you sure? IIRC at least several exit nodes have been raided.
 




From listofactor at mail.ru  Sat Apr  9 08:42:06 2016
From: listofactor at mail.ru (listo factor)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 15:42:06 +0000
Subject: When is it necessary to take up arms?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRaYJv9a-OhYjyGBGdFNQPCDLyvgu5Mnt6H5tY1CEMcXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRaYJv9a-OhYjyGBGdFNQPCDLyvgu5Mnt6H5tY1CEMcXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <570922CE.9030705@mail.ru>

On 04/09/2016 07:57 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Serious analysis interposed with the lighter side of Ukraine's current
> predicaments:

Interesting. For those attracted to the study of Russian-Ukrainian
relationship, I also propose the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Equally serious, but unfortunately it lacks any "lighter side".





From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:29:27 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:29:27 +0000
Subject: When is it necessary to take up arms?
In-Reply-To: <570922CE.9030705@mail.ru>
References: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRaYJv9a-OhYjyGBGdFNQPCDLyvgu5Mnt6H5tY1CEMcXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570922CE.9030705@mail.ru>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTGJD0XOPdk_H8mPaLG7gr1Krn46KULCu52cRD3FXugzA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/9/16, listo factor <listofactor at mail.ru> wrote:
> On 04/09/2016 07:57 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> Serious analysis interposed with the lighter side of Ukraine's current
>> predicaments:
>
> Interesting. For those attracted to the study of Russian-Ukrainian
> relationship, I also propose the following:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
> Equally serious, but unfortunately it lacks any "lighter side".

Stalin's USSR did a lot of pretty bad stuff from what I understand,
and this is just one example of which the drum was recently beaten due
to the CIA's Ukrainian Maidan (to drum up anti Russian sentiment of
course).

Putin's Russia is worlds away from Stalin's USSR, in time, intentions,
deeds, and the experiences of the nation's people - Russians have been
through hell and back like few in 'the West' ever have; I am most
interested in contemporary reality for obvious reasons.

The contradictions, deceptions and lies in the Western MSM dialogue
are shameful. The CIA's coups are shameful. The West's sanctions
against Russia are shameful (notwithstanding that Western firms,
Western farmers and the Western financial system are all taking the
greatest hits from those "sanctions"). Compare America's foreign
minister Kerry's current "Russia played a constructive role in Syria"
with modern history:
http://russia-insider.com/en/john-kerry-would-be-butcher-syria-forced-praise-russia-delivering-syria-iran-deals/ri13810




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:30:31 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:30:31 +0000
Subject: Creating The Devil In Their Own Image
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ5QO1fxYR=k8XRp3sip5B9Tui=Jn1oVpbQ6gGCktV8og@mail.gmail.com>

in reply to: cypherpunks at cpunks.org,

http://thesaker.is/creating-the-devil-in-their-own-image/

Creating The Devil In Their Own Image
February 21, 2016


This comment was chosen by Mod HS from the post “International
Military Review – Syria, Feb. 18, 2016”.  The moderator believes this
comment reflects the West’s obsession with President Vladimir Putin
and how their media demonizes him.  The commenter, mmiriww, responds
to the article written by Sharon Tennison. where she shares her
thoughts as the Ukraine situation worsened. Unconscionable
misinformation and hype was being poured on Russia and Vladimir Putin.
Journalists and pundits scoured the Internet and thesauruses to come
up with fiendish new epithets to describe both. Wherever Sharon makes
presentations across America, she finds the first question ominously
asked during Q&A is always, “What about Putin?”.


Comment by mmiriww
Is Putin incorruptible? A U.S. insider’s view of the Russian
president’s character and his country’s transformation.
“What about Putin”

It’s time to share my thoughts which follow: Putin obviously has his
faults and makes mistakes. Based on my earlier experience with him,
and the experiences of trusted people, including U.S. officials who
have worked closely with him over a period of years, Putin most likely
is a straight, reliable and exceptionally inventive man. He is
obviously a long-term thinker and planner and has proven to be an
excellent analyst and strategist. He is a leader who can quietly work
toward his goals under mounds of accusations and myths that have been
steadily leveled at him since he became Russia’s second president.
I’ve stood by silently watching the demonization of Putin grow since
it began in the early 2000s – – Like others who have had direct
experience with this little known man, I’ve tried to no avail to avoid
being labeled a “Putin apologist”. If one is even neutral about him,
they are considered “soft on Putin” by pundits, news hounds and
average citizens who get their news from CNN, Fox and MSNBC.I don’t
pretend to be an expert, just a program developer in the USSR and
Russia for the past 30 years. But during this time, I’ve have had far
more direct, on-ground contact with Russians of all stripes across 11
time zones than any of the Western reporters or for that matter any of
Washington’s officials. I’ve been in country long enough to ponder
Russian history and culture deeply, to study their psychology and
conditioning, and to understand the marked differences between
American and Russian mentalities which so complicate our political
relations with their leaders. As with personalities in a family or a
civic club or in a city hall, it takes understanding and compromise to
be able to create workable relationships when basic conditionings are
different. Washington has been notoriously disinterested in
understanding these differences and attempting to meet Russia
halfway.In addition to my personal experience with Putin, I’ve had
discussions with numerous American officials and U.S. businessmen who
have had years of experience working with him – – I believe it is safe
to say that none would describe him as “brutal” or “thuggish”, or the
other slanderous adjectives and nouns that are repeatedly used in
western media.

I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia,
as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all
of the slander started, I’ve become nearly obsessed with understanding
his character. I think I’ve read every major speech he has given
(including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone
“talk-ins” with Russian citizens). I’ve been trying to ascertain
whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the
presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he
never anticipated – – and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he
can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances.
If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks
for his performance over the past 14 years. It’s not by accident that
Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama
who was given the title for 2012. The following is my one personal
experience with Putin.

The year was 1992…

It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was
St.Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up
relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet
people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities. A new
program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might
require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was
made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door
entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small,
dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown
suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the
proposal I provided he began asking intelligent questions. After each
of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware
that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who
always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with
hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans’ requests. CCI
stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This
bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more
than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained
that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then
said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about
the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed
us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, “Volodya,
this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who
didn’t ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!” I remember
looking at his business card in the sunlight – – it read Vladimir
Vladimirovich Putin.

1994

Putin as Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg in the early 90s.

U.S. Consul General Jack Gosnell put in an SOS call to me in
St.Petersburg. He had 14 Congress members and the new American
Ambassador to Russia, Thomas Pickering, coming to St.Petersburg in the
next three days. He needed immediate help. I scurried over to the
Consulate and learned that Jack intended me to brief this auspicious
delegation and the incoming ambassador. I was stunned but he insisted.
They were coming from Moscow and were furious about how U.S. funding
was being wasted there. Jack wanted them to hear the “good news” about
CCI’s programs that were showing fine results. In the next 24 hours
Jack and I also set up “home” meetings in a dozen Russian
entrepreneurs’ small apartments for the arriving dignitaries
(St.Petersburg State Department people were aghast, since it had never
been done before – – but Jack overruled). Only later in 2000, did I
learn of Jack’s former three-year experience with Vladimir Putin in
the 1990s while the latter was running the city for Mayor Sobchak.
More on this further down.

December 31, 1999

With no warning, at the turn of the year, President Boris Yeltsin made
the announcement to the world that from the next day forward he was
vacating his office and leaving Russia in the hands of an unknown
Vladimir Putin. On hearing the news, I thought surely not the Putin I
remembered – – he could never lead Russia. The next day a NYT article
included a photo. Yes, it was the same Putin I’d met years ago! I was
shocked and dismayed, telling friends, “This is a disaster for Russia,
I’ve spent time with this guy, he is too introverted and too
intelligent – – he will never be able to relate to Russia’s masses.”
Further, I lamented: “For Russia to get up off of its knees, two
things must happen: 1) The arrogant young oligarchs have to be removed
by force from the Kremlin, and 2) A way must be found to remove the
regional bosses (governors) from their fiefdoms across Russia’s 89
regions”. It was clear to me that the man in the brown suit would
never have the instincts or guts to tackle Russia’s overriding twin
challenges.

February 2000

Almost immediately Putin began putting Russia’s oligarchs on edge. In
February a question about the oligarchs came up; he clarified with a
question and his answer: “What should be the relationship with the
so-called oligarchs? The same as anyone else. The same as the owner of
a small bakery or a shoe repair shop.” This was the first signal that
the tycoons would no longer be able to flaunt government regulations
or count on special access in the Kremlin. It also made the West’s
capitalists nervous. After all, these oligarchs were wealthy
untouchable businessmen – – good capitalists, never mind that they got
their enterprises illegally and were putting their profits in offshore
banks.

Four months later Putin called a meeting with the oligarchs and gave
them his deal: They could keep their illegally-gained wealth-producing
Soviet enterprises and they would not be nationalized …. IF taxes were
paid on their revenues and if they personally stayed out of politics.
This was the first of Putin’s “elegant solutions” to the near
impossible challenges facing the new Russia. But the deal also put
Putin in crosshairs with US media and officials who then began to
champion the oligarchs, particularly Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The latter
became highly political, didn’t pay taxes, and prior to being
apprehended and jailed was in the process of selling a major portion
of Russia’s largest private oil company, Yukos Oil, to Exxon Mobil.
Unfortunately, to U.S. media and governing structures, Khodorkovsky
became a martyr (and remains so up to today).

March 2000

I arrived in St.Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since
1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, “Lena what do
you think about your new president?” She laughed and retorted,
“Volodya! I went to school with him!” She began to describe Putin as a
quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids
being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic
youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary
school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went
to law school, later reapplied and was accepted. I must have grimaced
at this, because Lena said, “Sharon in those days we all admired the
KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were
keeping the country safe. We thought it was natural for Volodya to
choose this career. My next question was, “What do you think he will
do with Yeltsin’s criminals in the Kremlin?” Putting on her
psychologist hat, she pondered and replied, “If left to his normal
behaviors, he will watch them for a while to be sure what is going on,
then he will throw up some flares to let them know that he is
watching. If they don’t respond, he will address them personally, then
if the behaviors don’t change – – some will be in prison in a couple
of years.” I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to
show up in real time.

Throughout the 2000s

St.Petersburg’s many CCI alumni were being interviewed to determine
how the PEP business training program was working and how we could
make the U.S. experience more valuable for their new small businesses.
Most believed that the program had been enormously important, even
life changing. Last, each was asked, “So what do you think of your new
president?” None responded negatively, even though at that time
entrepreneurs hated Russia’s bureaucrats. Most answered similarly,
“Putin registered my business a few years ago”. Next question, “So,
how much did it cost you?” To a person they replied, “Putin didn’t
charge anything”. One said, “We went to Putin’s desk because the
others providing registrations at the Marienskii were getting ‘rich on
their seats.’”

Late 2000

Into Putin’s first year as Russia’s president, US officials seemed to
me to be suspect that he would be antithetical to America’s interests
– – his every move was called into question in American media. I
couldn’t understand why and was chronicling these happenings in my
computer and newsletters.

Year 2001

Jack Gosnell (former USCG mentioned earlier) explained his
relationship with Putin when the latter was deputy mayor of
St.Petersburg. The two of them worked closely to create joint ventures
and other ways to promote relations between the two countries. Jack
related that Putin was always straight up, courteous and helpful. When
Putin’s wife, Ludmila, was in a severe auto accident, Jack took the
liberty (before informing Putin) to arrange hospitalization and
airline travel for her to get medical care in Finland. When Jack told
Putin, he reported that the latter was overcome by the generous offer,
but ended saying that he couldn’t accept this favor, that Ludmila
would have to recover in a Russian hospital. She did – – although
medical care in Russia was abominably bad in the 1990s.

A senior CSIS officer I was friends with in the 2000s worked closely
with Putin on a number of joint ventures during the 1990s. He reported
that he had no dealings with Putin that were questionable, that he
respected him and believed he was getting an undeserved dour
reputation from U.S. media. Matter of fact, he closed the door at CSIS
when we started talking about Putin. I guessed his comments wouldn’t
be acceptable if others were listening.

Another former U.S. official who will go unidentified, also reported
working closely with Putin, saying there was never any hint of
bribery, pressuring, nothing but respectable behaviors and
helpfulness.

I had two encounters in 2013 with State Department officials regarding Putin:

At the first one, I felt free to ask the question I had previously
yearned to get answered: “When did Putin become unacceptable to
Washington officials and why? Without hesitating the answer came back:
“‘The knives were drawn’ when it was announced that Putin would be the
next president.” I questioned WHY? The answer: “I could never find out
why – – maybe because he was KGB.” I offered that Bush #I, was head of
the CIA. The reply was, “That would have made no difference, he was
our guy.”

The second was a former State Department official with whom I recently
shared a radio interview on Russia. Afterward when we were chatting, I
remarked, “You might be interested to know that I’ve collected
experiences of Putin from numerous people, some over a period of
years, and they all say they had no negative experiences with Putin
and there was no evidence of taking bribes”. He firmly replied, “No
one has ever been able to come up with a bribery charge against
Putin.”

>From 2001 up to today, I’ve watched the negative U.S. media mounting
against Putin …. even accusations of assassinations, poisonings, and
comparing him to Hitler. No one yet has come up with any concrete
evidence for these allegations. During this time, I’ve traveled
throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the
country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered,
inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and
hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture
was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.
Alcohol challenges were less obvious, smoking was banned from
buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being
laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in
far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable.
Russia was beginning to look like a decent country – – certainly not
where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally
for the first time in their memories.

My 2013/14 Trips to Russia Modern Russia, thriving

In addition to St.Petersburg and Moscow, in September I traveled out
to the Ural Mountains, spent time in Ekaterinburg, Chelyabinsk and
Perm. We traveled between cities via autos and rail – – the fields and
forests look healthy, small towns sport new paint and construction.
Today’s Russians look like Americans (we get the same clothing from
China). Old concrete Khrushchev block houses are giving way to new
multi-story private residential complexes which are lovely. High-rise
business centers, fine hotels and great restaurants are now common
place – – and ordinary Russians frequent these places. Two and three
story private homes rim these Russian cities far from Moscow. We
visited new museums, municipal buildings and huge super markets.
Streets are in good repair, highways are new and well marked now,
service stations looks like those dotting American highways. In
January I went to Novosibirsk out in Siberia where similar new
architecture was noted. Streets were kept navigable with constant
snowplowing, modern lighting kept the city bright all night, lots of
new traffic lights (with seconds counting down to light change) have
appeared. It is astounding to me how much progress Russia has made in
the past 14 years since an unknown man with no experience walked into
Russia’s presidency and took over a country that was flat on its
belly.

So why do our leaders and media demean and demonize Putin and Russia???

Like Lady MacBeth, do they protest too much?

Psychologists tell us that people (and countries?) project off on
others what they don’t want to face in themselves. Others carry our
“shadow” when we refuse to own it. We confer on others the very traits
that we are horrified to acknowledge in ourselves.

Could this be why we constantly find fault with Putin and Russia?

Could it be that we project on to Putin the sins of ourselves and our leaders?

Could it be that we condemn Russia’s corruption, acting like the
corruption within our corporate world doesn’t exist?

Could it be that we condemn their human rights and LGBT issues, not
facing the fact that we haven’t solved our own?

Could it be that we accuse Russia of “reconstituting the USSR” – –
because of what we do to remain the world’s “hegemon”?

Could it be that we project nationalist behaviors on Russia, because
that is what we have become and we don’t want to face it?

Could it be that we project warmongering off on Russia, because of
what we have done over the past several administrations?

There is a well known code of ethics among us: Is it the Truth, Is it
Fair, Does it build Friendship and Goodwill, and Will it be Beneficial
for All Concerned?

It seems to me that if our nation’s leaders would commit to using
these four principles in international relations, the world would
operate in a completely different manner, and human beings across this
planet would live in better conditions than they do today.

Sharon Tennison

http://www.sott.net/article/278407-Is-Putin-incorruptible-US-insiders-view-of-the-Russian-presidents-character-and-his-countrys-transformation#comment108960




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:31:57 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:31:57 +0000
Subject: US Military Chopper Transfers ISIL Leaders from Fallujah to Unknown
 Location - 21 February 2016
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST0nEaxwsPS8WnTAr6+wkzsGx7qP_rysP2hZB7yjrxxpQ@mail.gmail.com>

America 'encouraging' Iraq into allowing permanent US military bases in Iraq.

America the 'global cop' is also America the 'schoolyard bully'.

Bloody and shameful.


----
http://www.islamicinvitationturkey.com/2016/02/21/source-us-military-chopper-transfers-isil-leaders-from-fallujah-to-unknown-location/

US Military Chopper Transfers ISIL Leaders from Fallujah to Unknown
Location - 21 February 2016

Informed sources disclosed that a US-made helicopter has taken several
senior ISIL leaders out of Anbar province in Western Iraq to an
unknown location.

“A US chopper landed in a farm near the main road linking
al-Saqlaviyeh to Fallujah in Anbar province and took off  after one
hour with ISIL leaders on board,” the Arabic-language Sama Baghdad
news website quoted informed Iraqi sources in Fallujah city as saying
on Sunday.

The sources noted that several ISIL leaders had gathered in Fallujah
farm as if they had been informed of the helicopter’s imminent landing
in the farm.

In a relevant development on February 13, senior Iraqi security
sources lashed out at the US and its regional allies for supporting
Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, and said that Washington is the main cause
of ISIL’s survival in his country.

“We have compelling evidence that a US helicopter landed in Albu Arim
palms of Fallujah city to take out the ISIL leaders who were in
contact with the Americans,” a senior Iraqi security official,
speaking on the condition of anonymity, told FNA.

He noted that other US aircraft were flying over the region to protect
the airplane which was boarding the ISIL leaders, adding, “The US took
out the ISIL leaders in order to rescue them from possible attacks by
the Iraqi Army and security forces.”

In relevant remarks in October, Spokesman of Iraq’s Kata’ib Hezbollah
(Hezbollah Battalions) popular forces Jafar al-Hosseini disclosing
that captured ISIL leaders have acknowledged receiving logistical
backup and intelligence support from the US.

“As the ISIL commanders captured in Iraqi popular forces’ recent
military operations have confessed, the US supports for the terrorist
groups are not limited to the dispatch of logistical support,”
Al-Hosseini told FNA.

He reiterated that the US has provided the ISIL with intelligence
about the Iraqi forces’ positions and targets.

“ISIL commanders trusted the US officials who had assured them that
the Iraqi forces would not attack Fallujah because the US had urged
the Iraqi government to prevent the popular forces from entering
Fallujah and raid Beiji instead; hence the terrorists left Fallujah
for Beiji to stay on the alert in there,” Al-Hosseini added.

Al-Hosseini had also stated on Wednesday that his forces plan to win
back the city of Ramadi only after expelling the American forces from
Anbar province.

“Our forces have two operations underway; first seizing Ramadi from
ISIL and second keeping away the American forces from Anbar province,”
al-Hosseini told FNA.

He underlined that preventing the US forces from getting close to
Anbar province will expedite operations for winning back the province,
specially after the military operations in Salahuddin province that
led to the liberation of the city of Beiji.

Iraqi officials have on different occasions blasted the US and its
allies for supplying the ISIL in Syria with arms and ammunition under
the pretext of fighting the Takfiri terrorist group.

Also in October, the Iraqi army and volunteer forces discovered
US-made military hardware and ammunition, including anti-armor
missiles, in terrorists’ positions and trenches captured during the
operations in the Fallujah region in Al-Anbar province.

The Iraqi forces found a huge volume of advanced TOW-II missiles from
the Takfiri terrorists in al-Karama city of Fallujah.

The missiles were brand new and the ISIL had transferred them to
Fallujah to use them against the Iraqi army’s armored units.

On October 10, the Iraqi forces discovered US-made military hardware
and ammunition from terrorists in Beiji.

“The military hardware and weapons had been airdropped by the US-led
warplanes and choppers for the ISIL in the nearby areas of Beiji,”
military sources told FNA.

In February 2015, an Iraqi provincial official lashed out at the
western countries and their regional allies for supporting Takfiri
terrorists in Iraq, revealing that the US airplanes still continue to
airdrop weapons and foodstuff for the ISIL terrorists.

“The US planes have dropped weapons for the ISIL terrorists in the
areas under ISIL control and even in those areas that have been
recently liberated from the ISIL control to encourage the terrorists
to return to those places,” Coordinator of Iraqi popular forces Jafar
al-Jaberi told FNA.

He noted that eyewitnesses in Al-Havijeh of Kirkuk province had
witnessed the US airplanes dropping several suspicious parcels for
ISIL terrorists in the province.

“Two coalition planes were also seen above the town of Al-Khas in
Diyala and they carried the Takfiri terrorists to the region that has
recently been liberated from the ISIL control,” Al-Jaberi said.

Also in February 2015, a senior lawmaker disclosed that Iraq’s army
has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the
ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province.

“The Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense Committee has
access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed
while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL,” Head of the committee
Hakem al-Zameli said.

He said the Iraqi parliament has asked London for explanations in this regard.

The senior Iraqi legislator further unveiled that the government in
Baghdad is receiving daily reports from people and security forces in
al-Anbar province on numerous flights by the US-led coalition planes
that airdrop weapons and supplies for ISIL in terrorist-held areas.

The Iraqi lawmaker further noted the cause of such western aids to the
terrorist group, and explained that the US prefers a chaotic situation
in Anbar Province which is near the cities of Karbala and Baghdad as
it does not want the ISIL crisis to come to an end.

Also in February 2015, a senior Iraqi provincial official lashed out
at the western countries and their regional allies for supporting
Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, revealing that US and Israeli-made weapons
have been discovered from the areas purged of ISIL terrorists.

“We have discovered weapons made in the US, European countries and
Israel from the areas liberated from ISIL’s control in Al-Baqdadi
region,” the Al-Ahad news website quoted Head of Al-Anbar Provincial
Council Khalaf Tarmouz as saying.

He noted that the weapons made by the European countries and Israel
were discovered from the terrorists in the Eastern parts of the city
of Ramadi.

Meantime, Head of Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense
Committee Hakem al-Zameli also disclosed that the anti-ISIL
coalition’s planes have dropped weapons and foodstuff for the ISIL in
Salahuddin, Al-Anbar and Diyala provinces.

In January 2015, al-Zameli underlined that the coalition is the main
cause of ISIL’s survival in Iraq.

“There are proofs and evidence for the US-led coalition’s military aid
to ISIL terrorists through air(dropped cargoes),” he told FNA at the
time.

He noted that the members of his committee have already proved that
the US planes have dropped advanced weaponry, including anti-aircraft
weapons, for the ISIL, and that it has set up an investigation
committee to probe into the matter.

“The US drops weapons for the ISIL on the excuse of not knowing about
the whereabouts of the ISIL positions and it is trying to distort the
reality with its allegations.

He noted that the committee had collected the data and the evidence
provided by eyewitnesses, including Iraqi army officers and the
popular forces, and said, “These documents are given to the
investigation committee … and the necessary measures will be taken to
protect the Iraqi airspace.”

Also in January 2015, another senior Iraqi legislator reiterated that
the US-led coalition is the main cause of ISIL’s survival in Iraq.

“The international coalition is only an excuse for protecting the ISIL
and helping the terrorist group with equipment and weapons,” Jome
Divan, who is member of the al-Sadr bloc in the Iraqi parliament,
said.

He said the coalition’s support for the ISIL is now evident to
everyone, and continued, “The coalition has not targeted ISIL’s main
positions in Iraq.”

In Late December 2014, Iraqi Parliamentary Security and Defense
Commission MP disclosed that a US plane supplied the ISIL terrorist
organization with arms and ammunition in Salahuddin province.

MP Majid al-Gharawi stated that the available information pointed out
that US planes are supplying ISIL organization, not only in Salahuddin
province, but also other provinces, Iraq TradeLink reported.

He added that the US and the international coalition are “not serious
in fighting against the ISIL organization, because they have the
technological power to determine the presence of ISIL gunmen and
destroy them in one month”.

Gharawi added that “the US is trying to expand the time of the war
against the ISIL to get guarantees from the Iraqi government to have
its bases in Mosul and Anbar provinces.”

Salahuddin security commission also disclosed that “unknown planes
threw arms and ammunition to the ISIL gunmen Southeast of Tikrit
city”.
Bu Konuyu Sosyal Medyada Paylaş




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:33:19 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:33:19 +0000
Subject: Reminders of why USAgov and NATO must be dismantled
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQs=YN5skuSvDPpz8A_st9LtpiGUb3zJOWBt3rgqQRL4g@mail.gmail.com>

http://russia-insider.com/en/kosovo-evil-little-war-almost-all-us-candidates-liked/ri13583
"
Kosovo: An Evil Little War (Almost) All US Candidates Liked
Nebojsa Malic
Originally appeared at RT (
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/337034-kosovo-us-candidates-war/ )

Although the 2016 presidential election is still in the primaries
phase, contenders have already brought up America’s failed foreign
wars. Hillary Clinton is taking flak over Libya, and Donald Trump has
irked the GOP by bringing up Iraq. But what of Kosovo?

The US-led NATO operation that began on March 24, 1999 was launched
under the “responsibility to protect” doctrine asserted by President
Bill Clinton and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair. For 78 days, NATO
targeted what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia – which
later split into Serbia and Montenegro – over alleged atrocities
against ethnic Albanians in the southern province of Kosovo.
Yugoslavia was accused of “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” as bombs
rained on bridges, trains, hospitals, homes, the power grid and even
refugee convoys.

NATO’s actions directly violated the UN Charter (articles 53 and 103),
its own charter, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act and the 1980 Vienna
Convention on the Law of Treaties. The war was a crime against peace,
pure and simple.

Though overwhelmed, Yugoslavia did not surrender; the June 1999
armistice only allowed NATO to occupy Kosovo under UN peacekeeping
authority, granted by Resolution 1244 – which the Alliance has been
violating ever since.

US Secretary of State at the time, Madeleine Albright, was considered
the most outspoken champion of the “Kosovo War.” She is now a vocal
supporter of candidate Clinton, condemning (
https://www.rt.com/usa/331671-clinton-steinem-albright-backlash/ )
women who don’t vote for her to a “special place in Hell.”

Clinton visited the renegade province in October 2012, as the outgoing
Secretary of State. She stood with the ‘Kosovan’ government leaders –
once considered terrorists, before receiving US backing – and
proclaimed unequivocal US support for Kosovo’s independence,
proclaimed four years prior.

“For me, my family and my fellow Americans this is more than a foreign
policy issue, it is personal,” Clinton said. Given the Kosovo
Albanians had renamed a major street in their capital ‘Bill Clinton
Avenue’ and erected a massive gilded monument to Hillary’s husband,
her comments were hardly a surprise.

She is unlikely to be condemned for those remarks by her rival for the
Democratic presidential nomination, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.
While arguing that Congress should have a say in authorizing the
intervention, Sanders entirely bought into the mainstream narrative
about the conflict, seeing it as a case of the evil Serbian “dictator”
Slobodan Milosevic oppressing the unarmed ethnic Albanians. He saw
“supporting the NATO airstrikes on Serbia as justified on humanitarian
grounds” ( http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/#kosovo-crisis
).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8S19u91Dfs

One Sanders aide, Jeremy Brecher, resigned in May 1999 (
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad
) arguing against the intervention as it unfolded, since the “goal of
US policy is not to save the Kosovars from ongoing destruction.”

Trouble is there was no “destruction.” Contrary to NATO claims of
100,000 or more Albanians purportedly massacred by the Serbs, postwar
investigators found fewer than 5,000 deaths – 1,500 of which happened
after NATO occupied the province and the Albanian pogroms began.

Western media, eager to preserve the narrative of noble NATO defeating
the evil Serbs, dismissed the terror as “revenge killings.” NATO
troops thus looked on as their Albanian protégés terrorized, torched,
bombed and pillaged across the province for years, forcing some
250,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and other groups into exile.

After George W. Bush was re-elected in 2004, his administration
adopted the Clinton-era agenda for the Balkans, including backing an
independent Albanian state in Kosovo. None of the Republicans, save
2012 contender Ron Paul, have criticized the Kosovo War since.

Billionaire businessman Donald Trump actually has been critical –
though back in 1999, long before he became the Republican front-runner
and the bane of the GOP establishment. In October that year, Trump was
a guest on Larry King’s CNN show, criticizing (
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/10/08/trump.transcript/ )
the Clintons’ handling of the Kosovo War after a fashion.

    “But look at what we’ve done to that land and to those people and
the deaths that we’ve caused,” Trump told King. “They bombed the hell
out of a country, out of a whole area, everyone is fleeing in every
different way, and nobody knows what’s happening, and the deaths are
going on by the thousands.”

The problem with Trump, then as now, is that he is maddeningly vague.
So, these remarks could be interpreted as referring to the terror
going on at that very moment – the persecution of non-Albanians under
NATO’s approving eye – or the exodus of Albanians earlier that year,
during the NATO bombing. Only Trump would know which, and he hasn’t
offered a clarification.

Though he has the most delegates and leads in the national polls for
the Republican nomination, the GOP establishment is furious with Trump
because he dared call (
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/332416-trump-iraq-us-elections/ ) George W.
Bush a liar and describe the invasion of Iraq as a “big fat mistake.”
According to the British historian Kate Hudson (
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/14/usa.kosovo ), however,
the 2003 invasion was just a continuation of the “pattern of
aggression,” following the precedent set with Kosovo.

    #MarchPogrom of Serbs in #Kosovo happened under UN & NATO
administration. Crime without punishment for 11th year.
pic.twitter.com/sy9c4GlndW
    — Anti-Serbism Monitor (@AntiSerbism)
    March 17, 2015 ( https://twitter.com/AntiSerbism/status/577732537344221184 )

Last week Secretary of State John Kerry reluctantly branded (
https://www.rt.com/usa/335971-isis-genocide-iraq-syria/ ) the actions
of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) in Iraq and Syria
“genocidal” towards the Christians, Yazidis, Shiites and other groups.
He cited examples of how IS destroyed churches, cemeteries and
monuments, and murdered people simply because of who they were.

It was March 17, eight years to the day since 50,000 Albanians began a
three-day pogrom in Kosovo, doing the very same things – while their
activists in the US were raising funds for the very same John Kerry,
as he ran for president as the Democratic candidate.
"



----------------
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/karadjic-told-me-i-saved-serbs-genocide-god-knows-we-are-right/ri13574
"
Karadjic Told Me: 'I Saved Serbs From Genocide. God Knows We Are Right'
Personal reflections on a Serb leader who was sentenced to 40 years in
prison for crimes against humanity
Daria Aslamova (Komsomolskay Pravda)

Photo: Radovan Karadjic and Daria Aslamova, 1993
http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/lfkf.jpg

Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie

The author is a veteran war correspondent who reported from numerous
hot spots throughout the world

This man gave me my first professional tape recorder (his own). With
this man I drank wine at night in the town of Pale near Sarajevo in
March, 1993, during the Bosnian War, with him reading me his poems in
Serbian. A poet and psychiatrist, the Serbian politician Radovan
Karadjic was  sentenced ( http://www.kp.ru/daily/26508.4/3377436/ ) to
40 years' imprisonment by a duplicitous International Criminal
Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia for ‘crimes against humanity’ (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity ).

They even blamed him for ‘genocide (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide ) against Bosnian Muslims (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks )’ in the town of Srebrenica
when he had nothing to do with it. He was a politician, not a general.
(By the way, when the ‘world community’ refers to the massacre of
Muslim men in Srebrenica, it forgets that it was in reprisal for the
murder of Serbian villagers in neighboring towns and villages).

There was a cruel civil war taking place in Bosnia back then, which
began with shootings at a Serbian wedding party in Sarajevo. Bosnian
Muslims got help from the West and the Muslim world, but no one helped
the Serbs. Even Russia, though making loud statements, refused to
supply arms.

The Bosnian Muslims received $2 billion (!) to purchase arms over the
3 years of the war, and 4,500 Al-Qaeda jihadists came to the country
thanks to the US, including Osama Ben Laden. They cut off Serbs’ heads
and threw them like cabbages into a basket. We have shocking
photographs http://www.kp.ru/share/i/4/1084796/big.png (not
recommended for people under 18 and sensitive adults) of those
murders. The murderers are still alive and recruiting new young
terrorists around the world, including for ISIS.  When arrested, they
were provided with new passports. And now for that interview with
Karadjic.

    "My job was great”, - he said. “Thousands of Serbs were liberated
and avoided genocide. Our biggest mistake was poor propaganda. The
world is against us because we were proud and didn’t want to be
humiliated by making excuses. We let this happen, and now the world
considers Serbs evil incarnate.

    Yes, it’s bad for us. But as a psychiatrist, I can say that the
law that applies to an individual, such as ‘stay alone and you will
become mature’, also applies to a nation. Forced isolation will break
him down if he is spiritually weak, or he will rise above it, if he is
worth it. Now the Serbs are alone but this will bring them spiritual
growth and wisdom. God knows we are in the right.”

Sometimes it seems to me that he’s talking about us Russians.
"




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:35:41 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:35:41 +0000
Subject: American/USGovMil intentions
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ0YTrvwP8r8Z7NsOCHa10MjBNteMX_tJwnczqxub473g@mail.gmail.com>

Let's hope this one does not come true:

On America's intentions:

http://journal-neo.org/2016/02/17/washington-s-machiavellian-game-in-syria/
"
An ominous wire report sent a shiver down my spine when I read it. On
January 28, US Army Lieutenant General Sean MacFarland, head of the
US-led coalition against Daesh (ISIL) in Iraq and Syria, said that the
US military was on site at the Mosul Dam to assess “the potential” for
the collapse. Were it to be blown up, it would send a flood of water
down the heavily populated Tigris river valley. “The likelihood of the
dam collapsing is something we are trying to determine right now… all
we know is when it goes, it’s going to go fast and that’s bad,”
MacFarland told reporters in Baghdad. The US State Department
estimates up to 500,000 people could be killed and over one million
rendered homeless should Iraq’s biggest dam collapse.
"




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  9 15:37:48 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:37:48 +0000
Subject: Mighty USA brings freedom to the world => Circles of Hell: Shocking
 Film of Ukraine War Crimes, Sadistic Torture
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRW0cBviK_9wk2B6Pr8a1QexsdD4gk5ZCPq=9E2uDPszw@mail.gmail.com>

All hail the mighty USA - liberating nations from fascist forces,
Maidan is alive.
<warning to the sarcasm impaired: sarcasm intended>

http://russia-insider.com/en/circles-hell-shocking-film-ukraine-war-crimes-torture-fun-video/ri12882

And the USA debates whether to support Saudi Arabia and Turkey in
their intent to "liberate" Syria. Just as well Saudi Arabia chairs one
of the UN Human Rights Commission bodies... grave torture and
executions might otherwise be swept under the political rug in the
name of cheap oil and endless U$Dollar hegemony...

All hail, USA!




From muntudebugger at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 00:38:03 2016
From: muntudebugger at gmail.com (Muntu Debugger)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:38:03 +0300
Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 34, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.715.1460241207.1742.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
References: <mailman.715.1460241207.1742.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
Message-ID: <CAM2GhrBk45y_WqSeuYmovVNJOBL9tcamPiYyg9zCPOuB=Z7KUg@mail.gmail.com>

You are the light of the world <http://goo.gl/GUFmfr> . No form of sickness
or disease can dwell in a body that has the Spirit of God!

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 1:33 AM, <cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org> wrote:

> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>         cypherpunks at cpunks.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
>
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>         cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: When is it necessary to take up arms? (Zenaan Harkness)
>    2. Creating The Devil In Their Own Image (Zenaan Harkness)
>    3. US Military Chopper Transfers ISIL Leaders from Fallujah to
>       Unknown Location - 21 February 2016 (Zenaan Harkness)
>    4. Reminders of why USAgov and NATO must be dismantled
>       (Zenaan Harkness)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:29:27 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: When is it necessary to take up arms?
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOsGNSTGJD0XOPdk_H8mPaLG7gr1Krn46KULCu52cRD3FXugzA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 4/9/16, listo factor <listofactor at mail.ru> wrote:
> > On 04/09/2016 07:57 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >> Serious analysis interposed with the lighter side of Ukraine's current
> >> predicaments:
> >
> > Interesting. For those attracted to the study of Russian-Ukrainian
> > relationship, I also propose the following:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
> > Equally serious, but unfortunately it lacks any "lighter side".
>
> Stalin's USSR did a lot of pretty bad stuff from what I understand,
> and this is just one example of which the drum was recently beaten due
> to the CIA's Ukrainian Maidan (to drum up anti Russian sentiment of
> course).
>
> Putin's Russia is worlds away from Stalin's USSR, in time, intentions,
> deeds, and the experiences of the nation's people - Russians have been
> through hell and back like few in 'the West' ever have; I am most
> interested in contemporary reality for obvious reasons.
>
> The contradictions, deceptions and lies in the Western MSM dialogue
> are shameful. The CIA's coups are shameful. The West's sanctions
> against Russia are shameful (notwithstanding that Western firms,
> Western farmers and the Western financial system are all taking the
> greatest hits from those "sanctions"). Compare America's foreign
> minister Kerry's current "Russia played a constructive role in Syria"
> with modern history:
>
> http://russia-insider.com/en/john-kerry-would-be-butcher-syria-forced-praise-russia-delivering-syria-iran-deals/ri13810
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:30:31 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Creating The Devil In Their Own Image
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOsGNSQ5QO1fxYR=k8XRp3sip5B9Tui=
> Jn1oVpbQ6gGCktV8og at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> in reply to: cypherpunks at cpunks.org,
>
> http://thesaker.is/creating-the-devil-in-their-own-image/
>
> Creating The Devil In Their Own Image
> February 21, 2016
>
>
> This comment was chosen by Mod HS from the post “International
> Military Review – Syria, Feb. 18, 2016”.  The moderator believes this
> comment reflects the West’s obsession with President Vladimir Putin
> and how their media demonizes him.  The commenter, mmiriww, responds
> to the article written by Sharon Tennison. where she shares her
> thoughts as the Ukraine situation worsened. Unconscionable
> misinformation and hype was being poured on Russia and Vladimir Putin.
> Journalists and pundits scoured the Internet and thesauruses to come
> up with fiendish new epithets to describe both. Wherever Sharon makes
> presentations across America, she finds the first question ominously
> asked during Q&A is always, “What about Putin?”.
>
>
> Comment by mmiriww
> Is Putin incorruptible? A U.S. insider’s view of the Russian
> president’s character and his country’s transformation.
> “What about Putin”
>
> It’s time to share my thoughts which follow: Putin obviously has his
> faults and makes mistakes. Based on my earlier experience with him,
> and the experiences of trusted people, including U.S. officials who
> have worked closely with him over a period of years, Putin most likely
> is a straight, reliable and exceptionally inventive man. He is
> obviously a long-term thinker and planner and has proven to be an
> excellent analyst and strategist. He is a leader who can quietly work
> toward his goals under mounds of accusations and myths that have been
> steadily leveled at him since he became Russia’s second president.
> I’ve stood by silently watching the demonization of Putin grow since
> it began in the early 2000s – – Like others who have had direct
> experience with this little known man, I’ve tried to no avail to avoid
> being labeled a “Putin apologist”. If one is even neutral about him,
> they are considered “soft on Putin” by pundits, news hounds and
> average citizens who get their news from CNN, Fox and MSNBC.I don’t
> pretend to be an expert, just a program developer in the USSR and
> Russia for the past 30 years. But during this time, I’ve have had far
> more direct, on-ground contact with Russians of all stripes across 11
> time zones than any of the Western reporters or for that matter any of
> Washington’s officials. I’ve been in country long enough to ponder
> Russian history and culture deeply, to study their psychology and
> conditioning, and to understand the marked differences between
> American and Russian mentalities which so complicate our political
> relations with their leaders. As with personalities in a family or a
> civic club or in a city hall, it takes understanding and compromise to
> be able to create workable relationships when basic conditionings are
> different. Washington has been notoriously disinterested in
> understanding these differences and attempting to meet Russia
> halfway.In addition to my personal experience with Putin, I’ve had
> discussions with numerous American officials and U.S. businessmen who
> have had years of experience working with him – – I believe it is safe
> to say that none would describe him as “brutal” or “thuggish”, or the
> other slanderous adjectives and nouns that are repeatedly used in
> western media.
>
> I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia,
> as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all
> of the slander started, I’ve become nearly obsessed with understanding
> his character. I think I’ve read every major speech he has given
> (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone
> “talk-ins” with Russian citizens). I’ve been trying to ascertain
> whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the
> presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he
> never anticipated – – and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he
> can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances.
> If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks
> for his performance over the past 14 years. It’s not by accident that
> Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama
> who was given the title for 2012. The following is my one personal
> experience with Putin.
>
> The year was 1992…
>
> It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was
> St.Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up
> relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet
> people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities. A new
> program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might
> require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was
> made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door
> entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small,
> dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown
> suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the
> proposal I provided he began asking intelligent questions. After each
> of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware
> that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who
> always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with
> hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans’ requests. CCI
> stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This
> bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more
> than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained
> that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then
> said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about
> the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed
> us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, “Volodya,
> this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who
> didn’t ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!” I remember
> looking at his business card in the sunlight – – it read Vladimir
> Vladimirovich Putin.
>
> 1994
>
> Putin as Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg in the early 90s.
>
> U.S. Consul General Jack Gosnell put in an SOS call to me in
> St.Petersburg. He had 14 Congress members and the new American
> Ambassador to Russia, Thomas Pickering, coming to St.Petersburg in the
> next three days. He needed immediate help. I scurried over to the
> Consulate and learned that Jack intended me to brief this auspicious
> delegation and the incoming ambassador. I was stunned but he insisted.
> They were coming from Moscow and were furious about how U.S. funding
> was being wasted there. Jack wanted them to hear the “good news” about
> CCI’s programs that were showing fine results. In the next 24 hours
> Jack and I also set up “home” meetings in a dozen Russian
> entrepreneurs’ small apartments for the arriving dignitaries
> (St.Petersburg State Department people were aghast, since it had never
> been done before – – but Jack overruled). Only later in 2000, did I
> learn of Jack’s former three-year experience with Vladimir Putin in
> the 1990s while the latter was running the city for Mayor Sobchak.
> More on this further down.
>
> December 31, 1999
>
> With no warning, at the turn of the year, President Boris Yeltsin made
> the announcement to the world that from the next day forward he was
> vacating his office and leaving Russia in the hands of an unknown
> Vladimir Putin. On hearing the news, I thought surely not the Putin I
> remembered – – he could never lead Russia. The next day a NYT article
> included a photo. Yes, it was the same Putin I’d met years ago! I was
> shocked and dismayed, telling friends, “This is a disaster for Russia,
> I’ve spent time with this guy, he is too introverted and too
> intelligent – – he will never be able to relate to Russia’s masses.”
> Further, I lamented: “For Russia to get up off of its knees, two
> things must happen: 1) The arrogant young oligarchs have to be removed
> by force from the Kremlin, and 2) A way must be found to remove the
> regional bosses (governors) from their fiefdoms across Russia’s 89
> regions”. It was clear to me that the man in the brown suit would
> never have the instincts or guts to tackle Russia’s overriding twin
> challenges.
>
> February 2000
>
> Almost immediately Putin began putting Russia’s oligarchs on edge. In
> February a question about the oligarchs came up; he clarified with a
> question and his answer: “What should be the relationship with the
> so-called oligarchs? The same as anyone else. The same as the owner of
> a small bakery or a shoe repair shop.” This was the first signal that
> the tycoons would no longer be able to flaunt government regulations
> or count on special access in the Kremlin. It also made the West’s
> capitalists nervous. After all, these oligarchs were wealthy
> untouchable businessmen – – good capitalists, never mind that they got
> their enterprises illegally and were putting their profits in offshore
> banks.
>
> Four months later Putin called a meeting with the oligarchs and gave
> them his deal: They could keep their illegally-gained wealth-producing
> Soviet enterprises and they would not be nationalized …. IF taxes were
> paid on their revenues and if they personally stayed out of politics.
> This was the first of Putin’s “elegant solutions” to the near
> impossible challenges facing the new Russia. But the deal also put
> Putin in crosshairs with US media and officials who then began to
> champion the oligarchs, particularly Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The latter
> became highly political, didn’t pay taxes, and prior to being
> apprehended and jailed was in the process of selling a major portion
> of Russia’s largest private oil company, Yukos Oil, to Exxon Mobil.
> Unfortunately, to U.S. media and governing structures, Khodorkovsky
> became a martyr (and remains so up to today).
>
> March 2000
>
> I arrived in St.Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since
> 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, “Lena what do
> you think about your new president?” She laughed and retorted,
> “Volodya! I went to school with him!” She began to describe Putin as a
> quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids
> being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic
> youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary
> school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went
> to law school, later reapplied and was accepted. I must have grimaced
> at this, because Lena said, “Sharon in those days we all admired the
> KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were
> keeping the country safe. We thought it was natural for Volodya to
> choose this career. My next question was, “What do you think he will
> do with Yeltsin’s criminals in the Kremlin?” Putting on her
> psychologist hat, she pondered and replied, “If left to his normal
> behaviors, he will watch them for a while to be sure what is going on,
> then he will throw up some flares to let them know that he is
> watching. If they don’t respond, he will address them personally, then
> if the behaviors don’t change – – some will be in prison in a couple
> of years.” I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to
> show up in real time.
>
> Throughout the 2000s
>
> St.Petersburg’s many CCI alumni were being interviewed to determine
> how the PEP business training program was working and how we could
> make the U.S. experience more valuable for their new small businesses.
> Most believed that the program had been enormously important, even
> life changing. Last, each was asked, “So what do you think of your new
> president?” None responded negatively, even though at that time
> entrepreneurs hated Russia’s bureaucrats. Most answered similarly,
> “Putin registered my business a few years ago”. Next question, “So,
> how much did it cost you?” To a person they replied, “Putin didn’t
> charge anything”. One said, “We went to Putin’s desk because the
> others providing registrations at the Marienskii were getting ‘rich on
> their seats.’”
>
> Late 2000
>
> Into Putin’s first year as Russia’s president, US officials seemed to
> me to be suspect that he would be antithetical to America’s interests
> – – his every move was called into question in American media. I
> couldn’t understand why and was chronicling these happenings in my
> computer and newsletters.
>
> Year 2001
>
> Jack Gosnell (former USCG mentioned earlier) explained his
> relationship with Putin when the latter was deputy mayor of
> St.Petersburg. The two of them worked closely to create joint ventures
> and other ways to promote relations between the two countries. Jack
> related that Putin was always straight up, courteous and helpful. When
> Putin’s wife, Ludmila, was in a severe auto accident, Jack took the
> liberty (before informing Putin) to arrange hospitalization and
> airline travel for her to get medical care in Finland. When Jack told
> Putin, he reported that the latter was overcome by the generous offer,
> but ended saying that he couldn’t accept this favor, that Ludmila
> would have to recover in a Russian hospital. She did – – although
> medical care in Russia was abominably bad in the 1990s.
>
> A senior CSIS officer I was friends with in the 2000s worked closely
> with Putin on a number of joint ventures during the 1990s. He reported
> that he had no dealings with Putin that were questionable, that he
> respected him and believed he was getting an undeserved dour
> reputation from U.S. media. Matter of fact, he closed the door at CSIS
> when we started talking about Putin. I guessed his comments wouldn’t
> be acceptable if others were listening.
>
> Another former U.S. official who will go unidentified, also reported
> working closely with Putin, saying there was never any hint of
> bribery, pressuring, nothing but respectable behaviors and
> helpfulness.
>
> I had two encounters in 2013 with State Department officials regarding
> Putin:
>
> At the first one, I felt free to ask the question I had previously
> yearned to get answered: “When did Putin become unacceptable to
> Washington officials and why? Without hesitating the answer came back:
> “‘The knives were drawn’ when it was announced that Putin would be the
> next president.” I questioned WHY? The answer: “I could never find out
> why – – maybe because he was KGB.” I offered that Bush #I, was head of
> the CIA. The reply was, “That would have made no difference, he was
> our guy.”
>
> The second was a former State Department official with whom I recently
> shared a radio interview on Russia. Afterward when we were chatting, I
> remarked, “You might be interested to know that I’ve collected
> experiences of Putin from numerous people, some over a period of
> years, and they all say they had no negative experiences with Putin
> and there was no evidence of taking bribes”. He firmly replied, “No
> one has ever been able to come up with a bribery charge against
> Putin.”
>
> >From 2001 up to today, I’ve watched the negative U.S. media mounting
> against Putin …. even accusations of assassinations, poisonings, and
> comparing him to Hitler. No one yet has come up with any concrete
> evidence for these allegations. During this time, I’ve traveled
> throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the
> country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered,
> inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and
> hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture
> was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.
> Alcohol challenges were less obvious, smoking was banned from
> buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being
> laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in
> far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable.
> Russia was beginning to look like a decent country – – certainly not
> where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally
> for the first time in their memories.
>
> My 2013/14 Trips to Russia Modern Russia, thriving
>
> In addition to St.Petersburg and Moscow, in September I traveled out
> to the Ural Mountains, spent time in Ekaterinburg, Chelyabinsk and
> Perm. We traveled between cities via autos and rail – – the fields and
> forests look healthy, small towns sport new paint and construction.
> Today’s Russians look like Americans (we get the same clothing from
> China). Old concrete Khrushchev block houses are giving way to new
> multi-story private residential complexes which are lovely. High-rise
> business centers, fine hotels and great restaurants are now common
> place – – and ordinary Russians frequent these places. Two and three
> story private homes rim these Russian cities far from Moscow. We
> visited new museums, municipal buildings and huge super markets.
> Streets are in good repair, highways are new and well marked now,
> service stations looks like those dotting American highways. In
> January I went to Novosibirsk out in Siberia where similar new
> architecture was noted. Streets were kept navigable with constant
> snowplowing, modern lighting kept the city bright all night, lots of
> new traffic lights (with seconds counting down to light change) have
> appeared. It is astounding to me how much progress Russia has made in
> the past 14 years since an unknown man with no experience walked into
> Russia’s presidency and took over a country that was flat on its
> belly.
>
> So why do our leaders and media demean and demonize Putin and Russia???
>
> Like Lady MacBeth, do they protest too much?
>
> Psychologists tell us that people (and countries?) project off on
> others what they don’t want to face in themselves. Others carry our
> “shadow” when we refuse to own it. We confer on others the very traits
> that we are horrified to acknowledge in ourselves.
>
> Could this be why we constantly find fault with Putin and Russia?
>
> Could it be that we project on to Putin the sins of ourselves and our
> leaders?
>
> Could it be that we condemn Russia’s corruption, acting like the
> corruption within our corporate world doesn’t exist?
>
> Could it be that we condemn their human rights and LGBT issues, not
> facing the fact that we haven’t solved our own?
>
> Could it be that we accuse Russia of “reconstituting the USSR” – –
> because of what we do to remain the world’s “hegemon”?
>
> Could it be that we project nationalist behaviors on Russia, because
> that is what we have become and we don’t want to face it?
>
> Could it be that we project warmongering off on Russia, because of
> what we have done over the past several administrations?
>
> There is a well known code of ethics among us: Is it the Truth, Is it
> Fair, Does it build Friendship and Goodwill, and Will it be Beneficial
> for All Concerned?
>
> It seems to me that if our nation’s leaders would commit to using
> these four principles in international relations, the world would
> operate in a completely different manner, and human beings across this
> planet would live in better conditions than they do today.
>
> Sharon Tennison
>
>
> http://www.sott.net/article/278407-Is-Putin-incorruptible-US-insiders-view-of-the-Russian-presidents-character-and-his-countrys-transformation#comment108960
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:31:57 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: US Military Chopper Transfers ISIL Leaders from Fallujah to
>         Unknown Location - 21 February 2016
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAOsGNST0nEaxwsPS8WnTAr6+wkzsGx7qP_rysP2hZB7yjrxxpQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> America 'encouraging' Iraq into allowing permanent US military bases in
> Iraq.
>
> America the 'global cop' is also America the 'schoolyard bully'.
>
> Bloody and shameful.
>
>
> ----
>
> http://www.islamicinvitationturkey.com/2016/02/21/source-us-military-chopper-transfers-isil-leaders-from-fallujah-to-unknown-location/
>
> US Military Chopper Transfers ISIL Leaders from Fallujah to Unknown
> Location - 21 February 2016
>
> Informed sources disclosed that a US-made helicopter has taken several
> senior ISIL leaders out of Anbar province in Western Iraq to an
> unknown location.
>
> “A US chopper landed in a farm near the main road linking
> al-Saqlaviyeh to Fallujah in Anbar province and took off  after one
> hour with ISIL leaders on board,” the Arabic-language Sama Baghdad
> news website quoted informed Iraqi sources in Fallujah city as saying
> on Sunday.
>
> The sources noted that several ISIL leaders had gathered in Fallujah
> farm as if they had been informed of the helicopter’s imminent landing
> in the farm.
>
> In a relevant development on February 13, senior Iraqi security
> sources lashed out at the US and its regional allies for supporting
> Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, and said that Washington is the main cause
> of ISIL’s survival in his country.
>
> “We have compelling evidence that a US helicopter landed in Albu Arim
> palms of Fallujah city to take out the ISIL leaders who were in
> contact with the Americans,” a senior Iraqi security official,
> speaking on the condition of anonymity, told FNA.
>
> He noted that other US aircraft were flying over the region to protect
> the airplane which was boarding the ISIL leaders, adding, “The US took
> out the ISIL leaders in order to rescue them from possible attacks by
> the Iraqi Army and security forces.”
>
> In relevant remarks in October, Spokesman of Iraq’s Kata’ib Hezbollah
> (Hezbollah Battalions) popular forces Jafar al-Hosseini disclosing
> that captured ISIL leaders have acknowledged receiving logistical
> backup and intelligence support from the US.
>
> “As the ISIL commanders captured in Iraqi popular forces’ recent
> military operations have confessed, the US supports for the terrorist
> groups are not limited to the dispatch of logistical support,”
> Al-Hosseini told FNA.
>
> He reiterated that the US has provided the ISIL with intelligence
> about the Iraqi forces’ positions and targets.
>
> “ISIL commanders trusted the US officials who had assured them that
> the Iraqi forces would not attack Fallujah because the US had urged
> the Iraqi government to prevent the popular forces from entering
> Fallujah and raid Beiji instead; hence the terrorists left Fallujah
> for Beiji to stay on the alert in there,” Al-Hosseini added.
>
> Al-Hosseini had also stated on Wednesday that his forces plan to win
> back the city of Ramadi only after expelling the American forces from
> Anbar province.
>
> “Our forces have two operations underway; first seizing Ramadi from
> ISIL and second keeping away the American forces from Anbar province,”
> al-Hosseini told FNA.
>
> He underlined that preventing the US forces from getting close to
> Anbar province will expedite operations for winning back the province,
> specially after the military operations in Salahuddin province that
> led to the liberation of the city of Beiji.
>
> Iraqi officials have on different occasions blasted the US and its
> allies for supplying the ISIL in Syria with arms and ammunition under
> the pretext of fighting the Takfiri terrorist group.
>
> Also in October, the Iraqi army and volunteer forces discovered
> US-made military hardware and ammunition, including anti-armor
> missiles, in terrorists’ positions and trenches captured during the
> operations in the Fallujah region in Al-Anbar province.
>
> The Iraqi forces found a huge volume of advanced TOW-II missiles from
> the Takfiri terrorists in al-Karama city of Fallujah.
>
> The missiles were brand new and the ISIL had transferred them to
> Fallujah to use them against the Iraqi army’s armored units.
>
> On October 10, the Iraqi forces discovered US-made military hardware
> and ammunition from terrorists in Beiji.
>
> “The military hardware and weapons had been airdropped by the US-led
> warplanes and choppers for the ISIL in the nearby areas of Beiji,”
> military sources told FNA.
>
> In February 2015, an Iraqi provincial official lashed out at the
> western countries and their regional allies for supporting Takfiri
> terrorists in Iraq, revealing that the US airplanes still continue to
> airdrop weapons and foodstuff for the ISIL terrorists.
>
> “The US planes have dropped weapons for the ISIL terrorists in the
> areas under ISIL control and even in those areas that have been
> recently liberated from the ISIL control to encourage the terrorists
> to return to those places,” Coordinator of Iraqi popular forces Jafar
> al-Jaberi told FNA.
>
> He noted that eyewitnesses in Al-Havijeh of Kirkuk province had
> witnessed the US airplanes dropping several suspicious parcels for
> ISIL terrorists in the province.
>
> “Two coalition planes were also seen above the town of Al-Khas in
> Diyala and they carried the Takfiri terrorists to the region that has
> recently been liberated from the ISIL control,” Al-Jaberi said.
>
> Also in February 2015, a senior lawmaker disclosed that Iraq’s army
> has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the
> ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province.
>
> “The Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense Committee has
> access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed
> while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL,” Head of the committee
> Hakem al-Zameli said.
>
> He said the Iraqi parliament has asked London for explanations in this
> regard.
>
> The senior Iraqi legislator further unveiled that the government in
> Baghdad is receiving daily reports from people and security forces in
> al-Anbar province on numerous flights by the US-led coalition planes
> that airdrop weapons and supplies for ISIL in terrorist-held areas.
>
> The Iraqi lawmaker further noted the cause of such western aids to the
> terrorist group, and explained that the US prefers a chaotic situation
> in Anbar Province which is near the cities of Karbala and Baghdad as
> it does not want the ISIL crisis to come to an end.
>
> Also in February 2015, a senior Iraqi provincial official lashed out
> at the western countries and their regional allies for supporting
> Takfiri terrorists in Iraq, revealing that US and Israeli-made weapons
> have been discovered from the areas purged of ISIL terrorists.
>
> “We have discovered weapons made in the US, European countries and
> Israel from the areas liberated from ISIL’s control in Al-Baqdadi
> region,” the Al-Ahad news website quoted Head of Al-Anbar Provincial
> Council Khalaf Tarmouz as saying.
>
> He noted that the weapons made by the European countries and Israel
> were discovered from the terrorists in the Eastern parts of the city
> of Ramadi.
>
> Meantime, Head of Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense
> Committee Hakem al-Zameli also disclosed that the anti-ISIL
> coalition’s planes have dropped weapons and foodstuff for the ISIL in
> Salahuddin, Al-Anbar and Diyala provinces.
>
> In January 2015, al-Zameli underlined that the coalition is the main
> cause of ISIL’s survival in Iraq.
>
> “There are proofs and evidence for the US-led coalition’s military aid
> to ISIL terrorists through air(dropped cargoes),” he told FNA at the
> time.
>
> He noted that the members of his committee have already proved that
> the US planes have dropped advanced weaponry, including anti-aircraft
> weapons, for the ISIL, and that it has set up an investigation
> committee to probe into the matter.
>
> “The US drops weapons for the ISIL on the excuse of not knowing about
> the whereabouts of the ISIL positions and it is trying to distort the
> reality with its allegations.
>
> He noted that the committee had collected the data and the evidence
> provided by eyewitnesses, including Iraqi army officers and the
> popular forces, and said, “These documents are given to the
> investigation committee … and the necessary measures will be taken to
> protect the Iraqi airspace.”
>
> Also in January 2015, another senior Iraqi legislator reiterated that
> the US-led coalition is the main cause of ISIL’s survival in Iraq.
>
> “The international coalition is only an excuse for protecting the ISIL
> and helping the terrorist group with equipment and weapons,” Jome
> Divan, who is member of the al-Sadr bloc in the Iraqi parliament,
> said.
>
> He said the coalition’s support for the ISIL is now evident to
> everyone, and continued, “The coalition has not targeted ISIL’s main
> positions in Iraq.”
>
> In Late December 2014, Iraqi Parliamentary Security and Defense
> Commission MP disclosed that a US plane supplied the ISIL terrorist
> organization with arms and ammunition in Salahuddin province.
>
> MP Majid al-Gharawi stated that the available information pointed out
> that US planes are supplying ISIL organization, not only in Salahuddin
> province, but also other provinces, Iraq TradeLink reported.
>
> He added that the US and the international coalition are “not serious
> in fighting against the ISIL organization, because they have the
> technological power to determine the presence of ISIL gunmen and
> destroy them in one month”.
>
> Gharawi added that “the US is trying to expand the time of the war
> against the ISIL to get guarantees from the Iraqi government to have
> its bases in Mosul and Anbar provinces.”
>
> Salahuddin security commission also disclosed that “unknown planes
> threw arms and ammunition to the ISIL gunmen Southeast of Tikrit
> city”.
> Bu Konuyu Sosyal Medyada Paylaş
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 22:33:19 +0000
> From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Reminders of why USAgov and NATO must be dismantled
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOsGNSQs=
> YN5skuSvDPpz8A_st9LtpiGUb3zJOWBt3rgqQRL4g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> http://russia-insider.com/en/kosovo-evil-little-war-almost-all-us-candidates-liked/ri13583
> "
> Kosovo: An Evil Little War (Almost) All US Candidates Liked
> Nebojsa Malic
> Originally appeared at RT (
> https://www.rt.com/op-edge/337034-kosovo-us-candidates-war/ )
>
> Although the 2016 presidential election is still in the primaries
> phase, contenders have already brought up America’s failed foreign
> wars. Hillary Clinton is taking flak over Libya, and Donald Trump has
> irked the GOP by bringing up Iraq. But what of Kosovo?
>
> The US-led NATO operation that began on March 24, 1999 was launched
> under the “responsibility to protect” doctrine asserted by President
> Bill Clinton and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair. For 78 days, NATO
> targeted what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia – which
> later split into Serbia and Montenegro – over alleged atrocities
> against ethnic Albanians in the southern province of Kosovo.
> Yugoslavia was accused of “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” as bombs
> rained on bridges, trains, hospitals, homes, the power grid and even
> refugee convoys.
>
> NATO’s actions directly violated the UN Charter (articles 53 and 103),
> its own charter, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act and the 1980 Vienna
> Convention on the Law of Treaties. The war was a crime against peace,
> pure and simple.
>
> Though overwhelmed, Yugoslavia did not surrender; the June 1999
> armistice only allowed NATO to occupy Kosovo under UN peacekeeping
> authority, granted by Resolution 1244 – which the Alliance has been
> violating ever since.
>
> US Secretary of State at the time, Madeleine Albright, was considered
> the most outspoken champion of the “Kosovo War.” She is now a vocal
> supporter of candidate Clinton, condemning (
> https://www.rt.com/usa/331671-clinton-steinem-albright-backlash/ )
> women who don’t vote for her to a “special place in Hell.”
>
> Clinton visited the renegade province in October 2012, as the outgoing
> Secretary of State. She stood with the ‘Kosovan’ government leaders –
> once considered terrorists, before receiving US backing – and
> proclaimed unequivocal US support for Kosovo’s independence,
> proclaimed four years prior.
>
> “For me, my family and my fellow Americans this is more than a foreign
> policy issue, it is personal,” Clinton said. Given the Kosovo
> Albanians had renamed a major street in their capital ‘Bill Clinton
> Avenue’ and erected a massive gilded monument to Hillary’s husband,
> her comments were hardly a surprise.
>
> She is unlikely to be condemned for those remarks by her rival for the
> Democratic presidential nomination, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.
> While arguing that Congress should have a say in authorizing the
> intervention, Sanders entirely bought into the mainstream narrative
> about the conflict, seeing it as a case of the evil Serbian “dictator”
> Slobodan Milosevic oppressing the unarmed ethnic Albanians. He saw
> “supporting the NATO airstrikes on Serbia as justified on humanitarian
> grounds” ( http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-nato/#kosovo-crisis
> ).
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8S19u91Dfs
>
> One Sanders aide, Jeremy Brecher, resigned in May 1999 (
>
> http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-troubling-history-supporting-us-military-violence-abroad
> ) arguing against the intervention as it unfolded, since the “goal of
> US policy is not to save the Kosovars from ongoing destruction.”
>
> Trouble is there was no “destruction.” Contrary to NATO claims of
> 100,000 or more Albanians purportedly massacred by the Serbs, postwar
> investigators found fewer than 5,000 deaths – 1,500 of which happened
> after NATO occupied the province and the Albanian pogroms began.
>
> Western media, eager to preserve the narrative of noble NATO defeating
> the evil Serbs, dismissed the terror as “revenge killings.” NATO
> troops thus looked on as their Albanian protégés terrorized, torched,
> bombed and pillaged across the province for years, forcing some
> 250,000 Serbs, Jews, Roma, and other groups into exile.
>
> After George W. Bush was re-elected in 2004, his administration
> adopted the Clinton-era agenda for the Balkans, including backing an
> independent Albanian state in Kosovo. None of the Republicans, save
> 2012 contender Ron Paul, have criticized the Kosovo War since.
>
> Billionaire businessman Donald Trump actually has been critical –
> though back in 1999, long before he became the Republican front-runner
> and the bane of the GOP establishment. In October that year, Trump was
> a guest on Larry King’s CNN show, criticizing (
> http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/10/08/trump.transcript/ )
> the Clintons’ handling of the Kosovo War after a fashion.
>
>     “But look at what we’ve done to that land and to those people and
> the deaths that we’ve caused,” Trump told King. “They bombed the hell
> out of a country, out of a whole area, everyone is fleeing in every
> different way, and nobody knows what’s happening, and the deaths are
> going on by the thousands.”
>
> The problem with Trump, then as now, is that he is maddeningly vague.
> So, these remarks could be interpreted as referring to the terror
> going on at that very moment – the persecution of non-Albanians under
> NATO’s approving eye – or the exodus of Albanians earlier that year,
> during the NATO bombing. Only Trump would know which, and he hasn’t
> offered a clarification.
>
> Though he has the most delegates and leads in the national polls for
> the Republican nomination, the GOP establishment is furious with Trump
> because he dared call (
> https://www.rt.com/op-edge/332416-trump-iraq-us-elections/ ) George W.
> Bush a liar and describe the invasion of Iraq as a “big fat mistake.”
> According to the British historian Kate Hudson (
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/aug/14/usa.kosovo ), however,
> the 2003 invasion was just a continuation of the “pattern of
> aggression,” following the precedent set with Kosovo.
>
>     #MarchPogrom of Serbs in #Kosovo happened under UN & NATO
> administration. Crime without punishment for 11th year.
> pic.twitter.com/sy9c4GlndW
>     — Anti-Serbism Monitor (@AntiSerbism)
>     March 17, 2015 (
> https://twitter.com/AntiSerbism/status/577732537344221184 )
>
> Last week Secretary of State John Kerry reluctantly branded (
> https://www.rt.com/usa/335971-isis-genocide-iraq-syria/ ) the actions
> of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) in Iraq and Syria
> “genocidal” towards the Christians, Yazidis, Shiites and other groups.
> He cited examples of how IS destroyed churches, cemeteries and
> monuments, and murdered people simply because of who they were.
>
> It was March 17, eight years to the day since 50,000 Albanians began a
> three-day pogrom in Kosovo, doing the very same things – while their
> activists in the US were raising funds for the very same John Kerry,
> as he ran for president as the Democratic candidate.
> "
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/karadjic-told-me-i-saved-serbs-genocide-god-knows-we-are-right/ri13574
> "
> Karadjic Told Me: 'I Saved Serbs From Genocide. God Knows We Are Right'
> Personal reflections on a Serb leader who was sentenced to 40 years in
> prison for crimes against humanity
> Daria Aslamova (Komsomolskay Pravda)
>
> Photo: Radovan Karadjic and Daria Aslamova, 1993
> http://russia-insider.com/sites/insider/files/lfkf.jpg
>
> Translated by Julia Rakhmetova and Rhod Mackenzie
>
> The author is a veteran war correspondent who reported from numerous
> hot spots throughout the world
>
> This man gave me my first professional tape recorder (his own). With
> this man I drank wine at night in the town of Pale near Sarajevo in
> March, 1993, during the Bosnian War, with him reading me his poems in
> Serbian. A poet and psychiatrist, the Serbian politician Radovan
> Karadjic was  sentenced ( http://www.kp.ru/daily/26508.4/3377436/ ) to
> 40 years' imprisonment by a duplicitous International Criminal
> Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia for ‘crimes against humanity’ (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity ).
>
> They even blamed him for ‘genocide (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide ) against Bosnian Muslims (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosniaks )’ in the town of Srebrenica
> when he had nothing to do with it. He was a politician, not a general.
> (By the way, when the ‘world community’ refers to the massacre of
> Muslim men in Srebrenica, it forgets that it was in reprisal for the
> murder of Serbian villagers in neighboring towns and villages).
>
> There was a cruel civil war taking place in Bosnia back then, which
> began with shootings at a Serbian wedding party in Sarajevo. Bosnian
> Muslims got help from the West and the Muslim world, but no one helped
> the Serbs. Even Russia, though making loud statements, refused to
> supply arms.
>
> The Bosnian Muslims received $2 billion (!) to purchase arms over the
> 3 years of the war, and 4,500 Al-Qaeda jihadists came to the country
> thanks to the US, including Osama Ben Laden. They cut off Serbs’ heads
> and threw them like cabbages into a basket. We have shocking
> photographs http://www.kp.ru/share/i/4/1084796/big.png (not
> recommended for people under 18 and sensitive adults) of those
> murders. The murderers are still alive and recruiting new young
> terrorists around the world, including for ISIS.  When arrested, they
> were provided with new passports. And now for that interview with
> Karadjic.
>
>     "My job was great”, - he said. “Thousands of Serbs were liberated
> and avoided genocide. Our biggest mistake was poor propaganda. The
> world is against us because we were proud and didn’t want to be
> humiliated by making excuses. We let this happen, and now the world
> considers Serbs evil incarnate.
>
>     Yes, it’s bad for us. But as a psychiatrist, I can say that the
> law that applies to an individual, such as ‘stay alone and you will
> become mature’, also applies to a nation. Forced isolation will break
> him down if he is spiritually weak, or he will rise above it, if he is
> worth it. Now the Serbs are alone but this will bring them spiritual
> growth and wisdom. God knows we are in the right.”
>
> Sometimes it seems to me that he’s talking about us Russians.
> "
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 34, Issue 14
> *******************************************
>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 15:31:24 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:31:24 -0300
Subject: American Rule Of Law
Message-ID: <570c25b7.0ba08c0a.c5d44.3bc3@mx.google.com>



	
	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

	http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2014/11/20/why-innocent-people-plead-guilty/

	http://www.innocenceproject.org/news-events-exonerations/2015/why-are-people-pleading-guilty-to-crimes-they-didn2019t-commit


	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter

	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

	https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering


	...off the top of my head




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 12 09:52:36 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:52:36 -0700
Subject: The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant Economy - Uber
 Edition
Message-ID: <570D27D4.6050104@riseup.net>

Uber says it gave US agencies data on more than 12M users...

Reuters via Daily Star ... Lebanon:

Uber Technologies Inc. Tuesday released its first ever transparency
report detailing the information requested by not only U.S. law
enforcement agencies, but also by regulators.

The ride-sharing company said that between July and December 2015, it
had provided information on more than 12 million riders and drivers to
various U.S. agencies.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Apr-12/347017-uber-says-gave-us-agencies-data-on-more-than-12m-users.ashx

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"


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From tedks at riseup.net  Tue Apr 12 09:43:09 2016
From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:43:09 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1460479389.3610.0.camel@riseup.net>

I try to live as cypherpunk a lifestyle as possible, so I rarely
venture out of doors. Why both with climate when we have climate
control? 

On Wed, 2016-04-06 at 15:49 +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
> lifetime?
> 
> Also increase in  major natural disasters (not counting m$ products/
> services)?
> 
> I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.
-- 
Sent from Ubuntu

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 12 20:51:30 2016
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 20:51:30 -0700
Subject: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked it.
Message-ID: <570DC242.4030205@riseup.net>

The FBI hired shady grey digital mercenaries (my apologies if I butthurt
anyone on this list or their friends) to crack the San Bernardino
shooter's iPhone.

Washington Post:

    The people who helped the U.S. government come from the sometimes
    shadowy world of hackers and security researchers who profit from
    finding flaws in companies’ software or systems.

    Some hackers, known as “white hats,” disclose the vulnerabilities to
    the firms responsible for the software or to the public so they can
    be fixed and are generally regarded as ethical. Others, called
    “black hats,” use the information to hack networks and steal
    people’s personal information.

    At least one of the people who helped the FBI in the San Bernardino
    case falls into a third category, often considered ethically murky:
    researchers who sell flaws — for instance, to governments or to
    companies that make surveillance tools.

    This last group, dubbed “gray hats,”


More:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-paid-professional-hackers-one-time-fee-to-crack-san-bernardino-iphone/2016/04/12/5397814a-00de-11e6-9d36-33d198ea26c5_story.html

-- 
RR
"Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"

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From jackeliddy at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 12 21:12:31 2016
From: jackeliddy at yahoo.com (Jack Liddy)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:12:31 +0000
Subject: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked it.
In-Reply-To: <570DC242.4030205@riseup.net>
References: <570DC242.4030205@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <570DC72F.6050607@yahoo.com>

The person in charge of PR at Cellebrite deserves a raise after this.




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr 13 03:58:03 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:58:03 +0300
Subject: The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant Economy -
 Uber Edition
In-Reply-To: <570D27D4.6050104@riseup.net>
References: <570D27D4.6050104@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160413105803.GA676@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:52:36AM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
> Uber says it gave US agencies data on more than 12M users...
>

12M suspected/potential turrists only in Uber...
 




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr 13 14:57:30 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 17:57:30 -0400
Subject: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked it.
In-Reply-To: <570DC72F.6050607@yahoo.com>
References: <570DC242.4030205@riseup.net> <570DC72F.6050607@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <570EC0CA.7040707@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/13/2016 12:12 AM, Jack Liddy wrote:
> The person in charge of PR at Cellebrite deserves a raise after
> this.

Ditto the person or persons who found a way to attribute the crack
to someone outside the USG.

The SanBerdino* iPhone Massacre:  A Post Mortem

In a case involving "terrorism" and any "Middle Eastern person,"
the FBI has unlawful legal authority to hand a locked iPhone
containing material evidence to the NSA for cracking.  NSA hands
the phone back, locked up with timestamps undisturbed, along with
a pen drive holding the decrypted content of the device.  All of
this is done under "Top Secret, Sensitive Compartmentalized
Information" cover, as befits the work of a Double Nought Spy
service with a license to do whatever the fuck they want "to
protect and preserve America's Freedom."

Apple got a great publicity boost, Uncle got a shot at legalizing
all of the above and more, and that's the whole story of the big
public controversy.  As for the super-duper security sideshow
about how Apple uses unique hard coded keys to encrypt iPhone
contents, OK fine:  It's actually a decent system, and having the
details out there will result in a bump in sales to "security
conscious" consumers including Apple's /large/ consumer base in
the Federal sector.

Anybody who doubts that the NSA can routinely crack iPhone
encryption - when they have the physical device in hand - haven't
thought it through:  The problem is to read one number stored on
an IC chip.  We have the technology to do that, and the NSA has
the budget, facilities, mandate, and as many practice iPhones as
Apple will sell them.  They also have the resources to "borrow"
any technical documents they need from Apple, with or without
asking permission or telling Apple it happened.  iPhones are
common and reading out the contents of "locked" devices is one of
the reasons why the U.S. has a big budget technical intelligence
service.  It is more than safe to assume that reading out a locked
iPhone is a solved problem at NSA, a documented routine procedure.
 Processing the paperwork for an FBI request based on the word
"terrorism" probably took longer than cracking the iPhone.

The pretended "inability" of the FBI to obtain the contents of a
"Terrorist iPhone" was Security Theater, pure and simple.
Checking out the details of the narrative was necessary to
accurately assess the SanBerdino iPhone Massacre as Security
Theater, but that does not mean it was ever anything but that:  A
set piece show, attempting to set a precedent legalizing forced
Federal back doors in all digital devices made by vendors under
U.S. jurisdiction.

[ * See Frank Zappa and the Mothers, Let's Make The Water Turn
Black. ]



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From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Apr 13 16:44:27 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 23:44:27 +0000
Subject: When is it necessary to take up arms?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTGJD0XOPdk_H8mPaLG7gr1Krn46KULCu52cRD3FXugzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSop+DTkp+vWpNP0GCf2wqeZsi++W7Ysq3vs4oUdkGGMQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRaYJv9a-OhYjyGBGdFNQPCDLyvgu5Mnt6H5tY1CEMcXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <570922CE.9030705@mail.ru>
 <CAOsGNSTGJD0XOPdk_H8mPaLG7gr1Krn46KULCu52cRD3FXugzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ7h5BON0Xiyp13A+d=yFBrk=X6meMsM6G0O0i2pjymKg@mail.gmail.com>

This article is from a “not executed White-bandit”, a Russian who grew
up hating USSR's Stalin with all his heart for most of his life, yet
now has a more interesting/ balanced analysis of things. For those
inclined to great black and whites like myself, this was a good read.

there are a lot of links and a couple of pictures, so I'll just link this one:

The Controversy About Stalin – a 'Basket' of Preliminary Considerations
http://russia-insider.com/en/controversy-about-stalin-basket-preliminary-considerations/ri13850
http://thesaker.is/the-controversy-about-stalin-a-basket-of-preliminary-considerations/




From carimachet at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 01:28:29 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:28:29 +0200
Subject: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked it.
In-Reply-To: <570EC0CA.7040707@pilobilus.net>
References: <570DC242.4030205@riseup.net> <570DC72F.6050607@yahoo.com>
 <570EC0CA.7040707@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQU1y2NMoCdzVWtVKAz7nWzO-AHyS_9F5yHYJVyMr3Fx2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 14, 2016 1:03 AM, "Steve Kinney" <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 04/13/2016 12:12 AM, Jack Liddy wrote:
> > The person in charge of PR at Cellebrite deserves a raise after
> > this.
>
> Ditto the person or persons who found a way to attribute the crack
> to someone outside the USG.
>
> The SanBerdino* iPhone Massacre:  A Post Mortem
>
> In a case involving "terrorism" and any "Middle Eastern person,"
> the FBI has unlawful legal authority to hand a locked iPhone
> containing material evidence to the NSA for cracking.  NSA hands
> the phone back, locked up with timestamps undisturbed, along with
> a pen drive holding the decrypted content of the device.  All of
> this is done under "Top Secret, Sensitive Compartmentalized
> Information" cover, as befits the work of a Double Nought Spy
> service with a license to do whatever the fuck they want "to
> protect and preserve America's Freedom."
>
> Apple got a great publicity boost, Uncle got a shot at legalizing
> all of the above and more,

It is policy from the executive branch from eo 12333

The word "policy" means "law" now

At this point with how eo's are working the legal system is just overidden

Maybe it is for the build > what can be taken out next etc... but the USG
is also stupid ... they fucked up getting access to tye phone in tge 1st
place

> and that's the whole story of the big
> public controversy.  As for the super-duper security sideshow
> about how Apple uses unique hard coded keys to encrypt iPhone
> contents, OK fine:  It's actually a decent system, and having the
> details out there will result in a bump in sales to "security
> conscious" consumers including Apple's /large/ consumer base in
> the Federal sector.
>
> Anybody who doubts that the NSA can routinely crack iPhone
> encryption - when they have the physical device in hand - haven't
> thought it through:  The problem is to read one number stored on
> an IC chip.  We have the technology to do that, and the NSA has
> the budget, facilities, mandate, and as many practice iPhones as
> Apple will sell them.  They also have the resources to "borrow"
> any technical documents they need from Apple, with or without
> asking permission or telling Apple it happened.  iPhones are
> common and reading out the contents of "locked" devices is one of
> the reasons why the U.S. has a big budget technical intelligence
> service.  It is more than safe to assume that reading out a locked
> iPhone is a solved problem at NSA, a documented routine procedure.
>  Processing the paperwork for an FBI request based on the word
> "terrorism" probably took longer than cracking the iPhone.
>
> The pretended "inability" of the FBI to obtain the contents of a
> "Terrorist iPhone" was Security Theater, pure and simple.
> Checking out the details of the narrative was necessary to
> accurately assess the SanBerdino iPhone Massacre as Security
> Theater, but that does not mean it was ever anything but that:  A
> set piece show, attempting to set a precedent legalizing forced
> Federal back doors in all digital devices made by vendors under
> U.S. jurisdiction.
>
> [ * See Frank Zappa and the Mothers, Let's Make The Water Turn
> Black. ]
>
>
>
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From dan at geer.org  Thu Apr 14 09:31:57 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:31:57 -0400
Subject: fwd: DARPA GC
Message-ID: <20160414163157.13572A06D8F@palinka.tinho.net>

DARPA will hold the world's first all-computer Capture the Flag
tournament in which automated systems may take the first steps
toward a defensible, connected future. DARPA's goal for the Cyber
Grand Challenge (CGC) is to spur an automation revolution in computer
security so machines can discover, confirm and fix software flaws
within seconds, instead of waiting up to a year as is typical under
the current human-centric system. DARPA believes these capabilities
are essential if the nation and world are to take full advantage
of the increasingly interlinked big-data revolution while protecting
data and processes-especially as more and more devices, including
vehicles and homes, get connected to the "Internet of Things".

Seven teams from across the United States have qualified to compete
in the Final Event. Nearly $4 million in prizes are at stake-along
with the chance to help revolutionize the future of cybersecurity.
The winning team will receive $2 million; second place will earn
$1 million; and third place will earn $750,000.

The CGC Final Event will take place August 4, 2016, live on stage
co-located with the DEF CON 24 conference in Las Vegas.

For more information, please visit: http://www.cybergrandchallenge.com




DARPA: Cyber Grand Challenge Final Event
WHAT: The World's First All Machine Hacking Tournament
WHEN: Thursday, August 4, 2016 (5:00pm - 8:00pm PCT)
WHERE: Paris Hotel and Conference Center, Las Vegas, NV

To learn more about the Cyber Grand Challenge, check out DARPA
Program Manager Mike Walker on 60 Minutes (https://youtu.be/OVV_k73z3E0)
and his DEF CON presentation about DARPA's fully automated capture
the flag hacking tournament (https://youtu.be/gnyCbU7jGYA).

Cyber Grand Challenge Finals are a free event open to the public;
no attendance fee is required but visitors wishing to stay for DEF
CON note: The DEF CON conference requires an attendance fee - please
go to defcon.org for more details.

Please pass on to those who may be interested.

http://www.cybergrandchallenge.com/

DARPA Adaptive Execution Office - Cyber Grand Challenge Team

For additional questions/inquires please contact : AEO-CGC-Team at darpa.mil





From nathan at squimp.com  Thu Apr 14 06:41:20 2016
From: nathan at squimp.com (Nathan Andrew Fain)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 16:41:20 +0300
Subject: Method FBI used to crack iPhone likely effects recent phones
Message-ID: <b68c61d5a6d447b09d2bed820f8a7cde@cypherpoet.com>

https://deadhacker.com/2016/03/25/the-terrorists-phone/

tldr; NAND proxy to prevent wipe. Instigate fake phantom wipe to reset 
counter+delay for passcode attempts.

This was published only a few days before the news that the FBI cracked 
the iPhone. So it is highly unlikely that the information disclosed was 
used by their hackers. But based on recent information the attack 
described in that post, in my obviously biased opinion, seems 
increasingly probable.

Also so far I found nothing in the iOS Security documentation that 
indicates this attack will NOT work on most recent iPhones. Though it 
could be that I simply missed an important detail.




From muntudebugger at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 07:13:16 2016
From: muntudebugger at gmail.com (Muntu Debugger)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 17:13:16 +0300
Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 34, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1460563201.18596.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
References: <mailman.1.1460563201.18596.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
Message-ID: <CAM2GhrD9Suwwu2TGTTk52sk3N2W5NNm5OUvKyPyG1xbtfD1f+A@mail.gmail.com>

Change in climate
<http://www.ipage.com/join/index.bml?AffID=837795&amp;LinkName=weblink> is
very noticeable, but there is something we can DO!!
<http://www.ipage.com/join/index.bml?AffID=837795&amp;LinkName=weblink>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 7:00 PM, <cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org> wrote:

> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>         cypherpunks at cpunks.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
>       (Ted Smith)
>    2. The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant Economy -
>       Uber Edition (Rayzer)
>    3. #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked
>       it. (Rayzer)
>    4. Re: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys"
>       cracked it. (Jack Liddy)
>    5. Re: The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant
>       Economy - Uber Edition (Georgi Guninski)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:43:09 -0400
> From: Ted Smith <tedks at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
> Message-ID: <1460479389.3610.0.camel at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I try to live as cypherpunk a lifestyle as possible, so I rarely
> venture out of doors. Why both with climate when we have climate
> control?
>
> On Wed, 2016-04-06 at 15:49 +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > Do you notice significant persistent change in climate during your
> > lifetime?
> >
> > Also increase in  major natural disasters (not counting m$ products/
> > services)?
> >
> > I do in Bulgaria, SE Europe.
> --
> Sent from Ubuntu
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:52:36 -0700
> From: Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant Economy -
>         Uber Edition
> Message-ID: <570D27D4.6050104 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Uber says it gave US agencies data on more than 12M users...
>
> Reuters via Daily Star ... Lebanon:
>
> Uber Technologies Inc. Tuesday released its first ever transparency
> report detailing the information requested by not only U.S. law
> enforcement agencies, but also by regulators.
>
> The ride-sharing company said that between July and December 2015, it
> had provided information on more than 12 million riders and drivers to
> various U.S. agencies.
>
>
> http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/World/2016/Apr-12/347017-uber-says-gave-us-agencies-data-on-more-than-12m-users.ashx
>
> --
> RR
> "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential
> trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 20:51:30 -0700
> From: Rayzer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys" cracked
>         it.
> Message-ID: <570DC242.4030205 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The FBI hired shady grey digital mercenaries (my apologies if I butthurt
> anyone on this list or their friends) to crack the San Bernardino
> shooter's iPhone.
>
> Washington Post:
>
>     The people who helped the U.S. government come from the sometimes
>     shadowy world of hackers and security researchers who profit from
>     finding flaws in companies’ software or systems.
>
>     Some hackers, known as “white hats,” disclose the vulnerabilities to
>     the firms responsible for the software or to the public so they can
>     be fixed and are generally regarded as ethical. Others, called
>     “black hats,” use the information to hack networks and steal
>     people’s personal information.
>
>     At least one of the people who helped the FBI in the San Bernardino
>     case falls into a third category, often considered ethically murky:
>     researchers who sell flaws — for instance, to governments or to
>     companies that make surveillance tools.
>
>     This last group, dubbed “gray hats,”
>
>
> More:
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-paid-professional-hackers-one-time-fee-to-crack-san-bernardino-iphone/2016/04/12/5397814a-00de-11e6-9d36-33d198ea26c5_story.html
>
> --
> RR
> "Through counter-intelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential
> trouble-makers ... And neutralize them, neutralize them, neutralize them"
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 04:12:31 +0000
> From: Jack Liddy <jackeliddy at yahoo.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: #FBIvApple: Cellbrite was just a ruse. "The Greys"
>         cracked it.
> Message-ID: <570DC72F.6050607 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> The person in charge of PR at Cellebrite deserves a raise after this.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 13:58:03 +0300
> From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: The Feudal Economy Is A Government-Spying-Compliant
>         Economy - Uber Edition
> Message-ID: <20160413105803.GA676 at sivokote.iziade.m$>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:52:36AM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
> > Uber says it gave US agencies data on more than 12M users...
> >
>
> 12M suspected/potential turrists only in Uber...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 34, Issue 18
> *******************************************
>
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From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Apr 15 08:43:17 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 15:43:17 +0000
Subject: Yee haw folks, it's on - World "money ho$" Bank jumps in bed with
 AIIB - BRICS undoubtedly to come next
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQTKrDpuQ_oxUHDNYH=iNYRwOOL_UfMG66xrT7rz28SzA@mail.gmail.com>

Goood morning multi polar world!

Damn.

Nothin like that fresh smell in the morning, the smell of money!



"
http://thebricspost.com/china-led-aiib-world-bank-to-approve-joint-projects-in-june/#.Vw-cBjB97IU
China-led AIIB, World Bank to approve joint projects in June
April 14, 2016, 6:35 am

 Picture: World Bank President Jim Yong Kim (R) and Asian
Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) President Jin Liqun exchange
documents after signing the first co-financing framework agreement at
the headquarters of World Bank in Washington D.C., the United States,
April 13, 2016 [Xinhua]

The China-led AIIB, alongwith the World Bank and the Asian Development
Bank will approve the first batch of co-financed projects in June,
AIIB President Jin Liqun said Wednesday.

“I would say a huge amount of chemistry has already been nurtured
between the AIIB and the World Bank, the AIIB and the ADB,” Jin said
at an event in Washington.

<Love birds now? Certainly were not love at first sight :D>

“We are working with the World Bank and the ADB for co-financing.
Maybe in June, we could have couples of projects approved by the World
Bank, by the ADB, and by us” he said.

<couples in bed, couples of projects, money for all>

The US had officially opposed the creation of the Asian Infrastructure
Investment Bank (AIIB) (
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/23c51438-64ca-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html
-
<southpark/ Team America voice over: "Nooo Shiiit">
). The emergence of the world’s first major multilateral development
bank in a generation had riled up many at the World Bank.

<they ignore you, laugh at you, fight you, then you win - when money's
at stake, they join you>

The China-led international lender, AIIB, is also “processing
freestanding projects” prepared by its own experts, Jin said on
Wednesday.

<we no tied to you, just letting our partners know we didn't sell out>

“Infrastructure projects are very large.
<very very large, lots of money, big money projects>
It’s not a very good idea for one bank to spend 2 billion or 3 billion
U.S. dollars on one project,” he said, adding that there is vast room
for cooperation among multilateral development banks.

<cooperation is certainly better than war, and mutual investment means
shared interest and hopefully less war - hey, I can hope can't I??>


The $100-billion Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank will boost
infrastructure investment in Asia and improve integration, China’s
President Xi Jinping said in January this year.

<America - shittin BRICs?? nah, joined them now... it's a good sign I
say, a positive development towards a stable world order - I'm just
hoping the more multi-lateral BRICS bank takes prime position on the
world stage ... we really need to nip any hegemonic tendencies in the
butt I'd say>


In its first year of operation, the AIIB expects to approve about $1.2
billion in financing, some of these will be in joint projects with the
World Bank.

“When we work together, we can actually help the host country improve
its macroeconomic policy environment,” he argued.

<And so this way we make use of at least some of your useless
U$Dollars which we hold so many of, otherwise we would just collapse
you tomorrow, better you collapse yourself, stupid idiots, then we not
take blame for your freekin greed and fleepin stupidity>

As the pent-up demand for infrastructure could be as high as 10
trillion dollars over the next decade, Jin said there’s no competition
but “only cooperation and coordination” between the AIIB and other
development banks.

<everybody happy profit>

On Wednesday, the AIIB and the World Bank signed the first
co-financing framework agreement, paving the way for their cooperation
on joint projects this year.

“Signing this agreement enables our institutions to finance
development projects together, and that is an important first step
toward working with a new partner to address the world’s huge
infrastructure needs,” World Bank President Jim Yong Kim said.

While there are huge demands for infrastructure in Asia, Jin said the
AIIB has to “be selective” and invest in good projects that meet its
standards of “financially sustainable, environmentally friendly and
socially acceptable.”

Given the broad definition of infrastructure in the bank’s mandate,
Jin said the AIIB could provide finance for non-physical
infrastructure like health and education in the future.

<laying solid foundations for a new world reserve bank - evidently
irresistible for those who lost their "one world hegemon" gambit>

Jin also noted that the AIIB could support projects under China’s Belt
and Road initiative, but it was not created exclusively for this
initiative.

“We would finance infrastructure projects in all emerging market
economies even though they don’t belong to the Belt and Road
initiative,” he said.

The AIIB has 57 prospective founding members, including some key US
allies, with an authorized capital of $100 billion.

<even Australia jumped in on BRICS bank, which was sort of surprising
considering what slutty lapdogs of the US we've been for so long>

The bank was formally established in Beijing in December last year and
started operation in January.

The AIIB is one of three entities China is promoting, along with a
joint $100 billion BRICS Development Bank and a $40 billion Silk Road
Fund.

TBP and Agencies
"

So US power players decided they not want to sing too many refrains of
"I'm ronely, so ronely" joining the party instead.




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Apr 15 19:15:25 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 02:15:25 +0000
Subject: Russia following in America's failed "war on drugs" footsteps,
 it seems
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQHa8h3E=Ja6B6P40pLzZNUS7hMq7ana6qVTN38Zfx11Q@mail.gmail.com>

Being a great fan of personal liberty to the extent the individual
does not harm another, I can only wholeheartedly support the premises
and observations laid out in the following article.

The "war" on drugs not only does not reduce crime, number of
prisoners, nor as far as we can see since Vietnam nor does it reduce
drug use, but as far as I can tell, the war on drugs only fuels crime,
creating the black markets, creating criminals, causing great angst
and physical health problems for those who are addicted, and
drastically increasing the prison population of "criminals" for
victimless "crimes".

Humans will be human. There will always be those humans who wish to
experiment, or to make life long use their choice or addicted
non-choice as the case may be, whether their drug(s) of choice be
alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, cocaine, heroine, ice, ecstasy or
anything else. Humans will be human and so logically there is NO
FIRETRUCKING POINT in making crimes out of "normal" human behaviour
and choices, where those choices and behaviours harm no one other than
(at most) the individual themselves.

Prohibition never worked.

Alcohol got legalized again, marijuana is on a slowish road to
re-legalization and many of us are aware of DuPont's cotton empire and
political connections causing the prohibition of marijuana.

Indeed, prohibition has only -ever- made the reality on the ground,
for the users/ addicted to that which is prohibited, much worse,
except of course for those police, government, military and other
outlaw gangs who profit from the prohibition - read Victoria Police
Corruption (Hoser) for various Australian examples.

We can only hope that the tending to be somewhat more intellectual
"public conversation" that occurs in Russia will turn to such rational
observations, be supported with bold honest public discussion, and
that they can move their collective political selves in the only
rational "harm minimization" direction - legalizing all drugs, at the
very least on prescription for those who are addicted.

All together now let us pray, pray for the poppies.
...


http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/mirroring-america-why-russias-war-drugs-will-fail/ri13920
Mirroring America: Why Russia's War on Drugs Will Fail
Russia seems determined to pursue a drug policy which over the last 40
years has failed resoundingly in the United States and world wide




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sun Apr 17 09:33:14 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 09:33:14 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFJvYmVydCBEZSBOaXJvIGFuZCBBdXRpc20g4oCTIGEgVHJhZ2ljIERyYW1hIG9mIEludGltaWRhdGlvbg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>

Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a cypherpunks listserv?  
Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.


----------
On April 17, 2016 8:58:51 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> Question - is it possible to have an open public discussion on the
> issue of vaccinations and their level of safety or otherwise?
>
> Apparently not, not even for a "public" figure such as American actor,
> Robert De Niro.
>
>
> Don your flameproof jackets...
>
>
>
>
>
> TRIGGER WARNING: This article may contain implications such as "there
> may be a link between modern vaccinations and autism" and "big pharma
> has a lot of lobbying money and US congress has only publicly heard
> one side".
>
>
>
>
> It may sound macabre, but I'm waiting for the 5 day gestation period
> contagious contaminated flu vaccine to hit - there's plenty of numbers
> and computer crunching of human pupulation activation thresholds for a
> would be Dr Save The World or his mini me.
>
>
> Forearmed is forewarned. And may the rest cower in submission to the
> "you're fucking up our herd mentality^B^B I mean herd immunity"
> intimidation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----
> http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/
> 10.04.2016 Author: F. William Engdahl
> Robert De Niro and Autism – a Tragic Drama of Intimidation
> Column: Society
> Region: USA in the World
>
> Robert De Niro is a magnificent actor, one who has won countless
> awards in his profession over decades. Recently he involved himself in
> a drama that is costing millions of tragic lives to be condemned to a
> special world of autism. What has developed from that involvement is
> tragic. Not alone because his own son is autistic
> ( 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/health/vaccines-autism-robert-de-niro-tribeca-film-festival-andrew-wakefield-vaxxed.html?_r=0
> ).
>
> On March 25 the New York Times printed an article with the title,
> “Robert De Niro Defends Screening of Anti-Vaccine Film at Tribeca
> Festival.” It was a decision deeply personal for De Niro and his wife.
> De Niro, co-founder of the Tribeca Film Festival, defended the
> festival’s controversial decision to screen an anti-vaccine
> documentary, Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe. De Niro explained,
> “Grace and I have a child with autism and we believe it is critical
> that all of the issues surrounding the causes of autism be openly
> discussed and examined. This is very personal to me and my family and
> I want there to be a discussion, which is why we will be screening
> Vaxxed. I am not personally endorsing the film, nor am I
> anti-vaccination; I am only providing the opportunity for a
> conversation around the issue
> ( 
> http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/%20http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/25/11306458/tribeca-film-festival-anti-vaccine-documentary-robert-deniro
> )
> .”
>
> Background
>
> That was a clear statement and a courageous act. De Niro made the
> decision not only to premier the Vaxxed film at his film festivan bust
> also to introduce the Director, Andrew Wakefield and the film
> personally. Before deciding, De Niro contacted US Congressman Bill
> Posey, the same Congressman who has spoken directly and at length with
> the Center for Disease Control (CDC) Whistleblower William Thompson (
> http://celebritories.com/2016/03/vaxxed-filmmakers-accuse-de-niro-tribeca-film-fest-of-censorship-in-wake-of-cancelation/
> ).
>
> In 2014 Thompson told Posey and others that the CDC, where he had been
> employed as a scientist, had documents that CDC officials deliberately
> suppressed tests that indicated links between the common MMR
> vaccine–Measles, Mumps and Rubella (whooping cough)– and child autism.
> After a one hour discussion with Posey on what he had been told by
> Thompson about the CDC autism coverup, De Niro made his personal
> decision to present the Wakefield film (
> http://celebritories.com/2016/03/vaxxed-filmmakers-accuse-de-niro-tribeca-film-fest-of-censorship-in-wake-of-cancelation/
> ). Forty eight hours and a firestorm of mainstream media attack on De
> Niro’s decision led to his reversal of the screening.
>
> In 2015 CDC whistleblower William Thompson, in an apparent act of
> conscience, told US Congressman Posey that while a senior scientist at
> CDC, he and his colleagues, after making a study of the link between
> vaccines and incidence of autism in small black boys, “scheduled a
> meeting to destroy documents related to the study. The remaining four
> co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting
> room, and reviewed and went through all the hardcopy documents that we
> had thought we should discard, and put them into a huge garbage can.”
> The…co-authors…brought a big garbage can into the meeting room… [and
> put the documents]…into a huge garbage can. –CDC Senior Scientist Dr.
> William Thompson (
> http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/%20https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-scientist-we-scheduled-meeting-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/
> ).  A cowered US Congress declined to even hold hearings on Thompson’s
> charges, charges that could have brought the global vaccine industry
> down if held honestly. The pharmaceutical industry makes enormous
> financial contributions to Congressional candidates in key committees.
>
> Autism Epidemic and Rise in Vaccinations
>
> Once De Niro announced he would premier the Vaxxed film at his film
> festival, a savage firestorm of attacks erupted from US mainstream
> media ranging from New York Times to forces to CNN. They all attacked
> Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the Director of Vaxxed, a British citizen,
> medical doctor and scientist who was literally crucified, stripped of
> his medical license in Britain and attacked as a scientific fraud for
> publishing a study in 1998 in the respected scientific journal,
> Lancet, on possible links between MMR vaccinations and an alarming
> rise in child autism. Only in 2010 after twelve years of relentless
> pressure and attacks on Wakefield and claims of faulty methodology did
> Lancet finally retract the article (
> http://www.medicaldaily.com/history-autism-and-vaccines-how-one-man-unraveled-worlds-faith-vaccinations-294474
> ).
>
> I have personally met and talked at length with Andrew Wakefield and
> have respect for his refusal to be cowered by the pharmaceutical
> vaccine cartel. I have also met numerous children in clinics and
> rehabilitation centers who have been maimed, crippled or mentally
> turned into vegetables from vaccinations. Their stories are hushed up
> by the medical industry, a trillion dollar cartel that links countless
> medical professionals, scientists, pharmaceutical makers, the CDC and
> the WHO.
>
> What none of the mainstream, politically correct, media dares to
> report in the De Niro-Wakefield debate are the alarming facts of the
> epidemic rise in autism in the USA over the past two decades. Autism
> rates climbed nearly 30% between 2008 and 2010. Incidents of child
> autism have more than doubled since 2000 according to a new study from
> the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The condition
> affects one of every 68 children who are 8-year-olds. That’s up from
> one in 88 just two years earlier. Thirty years ago autism in the USA
> was virtually unheard of (
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/27/autism-rates-rise/6957815/
> ).
>
> When it was first described in 1943 by Leo Kanner, it was believed to
> occur at a rate of 4–5 per 10,000 children. Today, 1 in 68 (
> http://www.momsagainstmercury.autismoava.org/archivos/Theoretical-Aspects-of-Autism-Causes-A-Review1.pdf
> )!
>
> The CDC claims not to know the cause. It is clearly not genetic change
> because such changes take many generations to manifest. Therefore it
> must be a significant change in the environment of the children.
>
> In 2011, Dr. Helen Ratajczak, herself a former senior scientist in the
> pharmaceutical industry published a groundbreaking article in the
> Journal of Immunotoxicology entitled “Theoretical aspects of autism:
> Causes–A review.” Ratajczak did what nobody else apparently has
> bothered to do: she reviewed the body of published science since
> autism was first described in 1943. Not just one theory suggested by
> research such as the role of MMR shots, or the mercury preservative
> thimerosal; but all of them.
>
> Ratajczak’s article states, in part, that “Documented causes of autism
> include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and
> encephalitis [brain damage] following vaccination [emphasis added].
> Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation
> of the brain.”
>
> The article goes on to discuss many potential vaccine-related
> culprits, including the increasing number of vaccines given in a short
> period of time. CBS award-winning journalist Sharyl Attkisson
> interviewed Ratajczak on her findings. “What I have published is
> highly concentrated on hypersensitivity, Ratajczak told Attkisson in
> an interview, “the body’s immune system being thrown out of balance.”
>
> No less a scientist than Dr. James R. Shannon, former Director,
> National Institute of Health, stated, “The only safe vaccine is one
> that is never used (
> https://vactruth.com/2011/06/06/part-1-of-3-an-interview-about-vaccines-with-helen-v-ratajczak-phd/
> ).” Robert De Niro is a magnificent actor. He let go of an opportunity
> to give mankind far more.
>
> F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds
> a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling
> author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine
> “New Eastern Outlook ( http://journal-neo.org/ )”.
>





From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sun Apr 17 11:24:39 2016
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:24:39 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFJvYmVydCBEZSBOaXJvIGFuZCBBdXRpc20g4oCTIGEgVHJhZ2ljIERyYW1hIG9mIEludGltaWRhdGlvbg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>

A post about vaccines and autism: exactly what does it have to do with 
encryption or any other topic even remotely connected to cypherpunks?  
Nothing.  That's not an opinion - it is a fact.  Whether I like the topic 
or think you're fucking nuts is irrelevant, it has nothing to do with 
crypto (etc.)

There are more appropriate outlets for the types of things you two post.  
This isn't it.  It's not a moderated list, and no one wants it to be.  But 
we generally keep the discussion to some form of 
crypto/computers/privacy/security etc.  This anti-vaxxer BS has nothing to 
do with the intended scope of the list.  I generally ignore this list 
because of the nonsensical mess a few of you have made of it, which has 
driven off so many others as well.  Back to ignore mode.

-S


----------
On April 17, 2016 10:42:50 AM  Александр  <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > 2016-04-17 19:33 GMT+03:00 Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>:
> > >
> > > Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a cypherpunks
> > listserv?  Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.
> > >
> >
>
> That's your own IMHO. You forgot to mention that.
> You've got thousands of people on this list. Not only you/a few more people
> who keep whining about "shitposts/ offtopic".
>
> By the way, i never read any of your own "great/ONtopic" posts (not talking
> about comments).





From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr 17 08:48:25 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 15:48:25 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Robert_De_Niro_and_Autism_=E2=80=93_a_Tragic_Drama_of_Inti?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?midation?=
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>

Question - is it possible to have an open public discussion on the
issue of vaccinations and their level of safety or otherwise?

Apparently not, not even for a "public" figure such as American actor,
Robert De Niro.


Don your flameproof jackets...





TRIGGER WARNING: This article may contain implications such as "there
may be a link between modern vaccinations and autism" and "big pharma
has a lot of lobbying money and US congress has only publicly heard
one side".




It may sound macabre, but I'm waiting for the 5 day gestation period
contagious contaminated flu vaccine to hit - there's plenty of numbers
and computer crunching of human pupulation activation thresholds for a
would be Dr Save The World or his mini me.


Forearmed is forewarned. And may the rest cower in submission to the
"you're fucking up our herd mentality^B^B I mean herd immunity"
intimidation.








----
http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/
10.04.2016 Author: F. William Engdahl
Robert De Niro and Autism – a Tragic Drama of Intimidation
Column: Society
Region: USA in the World

Robert De Niro is a magnificent actor, one who has won countless
awards in his profession over decades. Recently he involved himself in
a drama that is costing millions of tragic lives to be condemned to a
special world of autism. What has developed from that involvement is
tragic. Not alone because his own son is autistic
( http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/health/vaccines-autism-robert-de-niro-tribeca-film-festival-andrew-wakefield-vaxxed.html?_r=0
).

On March 25 the New York Times printed an article with the title,
“Robert De Niro Defends Screening of Anti-Vaccine Film at Tribeca
Festival.” It was a decision deeply personal for De Niro and his wife.
De Niro, co-founder of the Tribeca Film Festival, defended the
festival’s controversial decision to screen an anti-vaccine
documentary, Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe. De Niro explained,
“Grace and I have a child with autism and we believe it is critical
that all of the issues surrounding the causes of autism be openly
discussed and examined. This is very personal to me and my family and
I want there to be a discussion, which is why we will be screening
Vaxxed. I am not personally endorsing the film, nor am I
anti-vaccination; I am only providing the opportunity for a
conversation around the issue
( http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/%20http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/25/11306458/tribeca-film-festival-anti-vaccine-documentary-robert-deniro
)
.”

Background

That was a clear statement and a courageous act. De Niro made the
decision not only to premier the Vaxxed film at his film festivan bust
also to introduce the Director, Andrew Wakefield and the film
personally. Before deciding, De Niro contacted US Congressman Bill
Posey, the same Congressman who has spoken directly and at length with
the Center for Disease Control (CDC) Whistleblower William Thompson (
http://celebritories.com/2016/03/vaxxed-filmmakers-accuse-de-niro-tribeca-film-fest-of-censorship-in-wake-of-cancelation/
).

In 2014 Thompson told Posey and others that the CDC, where he had been
employed as a scientist, had documents that CDC officials deliberately
suppressed tests that indicated links between the common MMR
vaccine–Measles, Mumps and Rubella (whooping cough)– and child autism.
After a one hour discussion with Posey on what he had been told by
Thompson about the CDC autism coverup, De Niro made his personal
decision to present the Wakefield film (
http://celebritories.com/2016/03/vaxxed-filmmakers-accuse-de-niro-tribeca-film-fest-of-censorship-in-wake-of-cancelation/
). Forty eight hours and a firestorm of mainstream media attack on De
Niro’s decision led to his reversal of the screening.

In 2015 CDC whistleblower William Thompson, in an apparent act of
conscience, told US Congressman Posey that while a senior scientist at
CDC, he and his colleagues, after making a study of the link between
vaccines and incidence of autism in small black boys, “scheduled a
meeting to destroy documents related to the study. The remaining four
co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting
room, and reviewed and went through all the hardcopy documents that we
had thought we should discard, and put them into a huge garbage can.”
The…co-authors…brought a big garbage can into the meeting room… [and
put the documents]…into a huge garbage can. –CDC Senior Scientist Dr.
William Thompson (
http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/10/robert-de-niro-and-autism-a-tragic-drama-of-intimidation/%20https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-scientist-we-scheduled-meeting-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/
).  A cowered US Congress declined to even hold hearings on Thompson’s
charges, charges that could have brought the global vaccine industry
down if held honestly. The pharmaceutical industry makes enormous
financial contributions to Congressional candidates in key committees.

Autism Epidemic and Rise in Vaccinations

Once De Niro announced he would premier the Vaxxed film at his film
festival, a savage firestorm of attacks erupted from US mainstream
media ranging from New York Times to forces to CNN. They all attacked
Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the Director of Vaxxed, a British citizen,
medical doctor and scientist who was literally crucified, stripped of
his medical license in Britain and attacked as a scientific fraud for
publishing a study in 1998 in the respected scientific journal,
Lancet, on possible links between MMR vaccinations and an alarming
rise in child autism. Only in 2010 after twelve years of relentless
pressure and attacks on Wakefield and claims of faulty methodology did
Lancet finally retract the article (
http://www.medicaldaily.com/history-autism-and-vaccines-how-one-man-unraveled-worlds-faith-vaccinations-294474
).

I have personally met and talked at length with Andrew Wakefield and
have respect for his refusal to be cowered by the pharmaceutical
vaccine cartel. I have also met numerous children in clinics and
rehabilitation centers who have been maimed, crippled or mentally
turned into vegetables from vaccinations. Their stories are hushed up
by the medical industry, a trillion dollar cartel that links countless
medical professionals, scientists, pharmaceutical makers, the CDC and
the WHO.

What none of the mainstream, politically correct, media dares to
report in the De Niro-Wakefield debate are the alarming facts of the
epidemic rise in autism in the USA over the past two decades. Autism
rates climbed nearly 30% between 2008 and 2010. Incidents of child
autism have more than doubled since 2000 according to a new study from
the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The condition
affects one of every 68 children who are 8-year-olds. That’s up from
one in 88 just two years earlier. Thirty years ago autism in the USA
was virtually unheard of (
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/27/autism-rates-rise/6957815/
).

When it was first described in 1943 by Leo Kanner, it was believed to
occur at a rate of 4–5 per 10,000 children. Today, 1 in 68 (
http://www.momsagainstmercury.autismoava.org/archivos/Theoretical-Aspects-of-Autism-Causes-A-Review1.pdf
)!

The CDC claims not to know the cause. It is clearly not genetic change
because such changes take many generations to manifest. Therefore it
must be a significant change in the environment of the children.

In 2011, Dr. Helen Ratajczak, herself a former senior scientist in the
pharmaceutical industry published a groundbreaking article in the
Journal of Immunotoxicology entitled “Theoretical aspects of autism:
Causes–A review.” Ratajczak did what nobody else apparently has
bothered to do: she reviewed the body of published science since
autism was first described in 1943. Not just one theory suggested by
research such as the role of MMR shots, or the mercury preservative
thimerosal; but all of them.

Ratajczak’s article states, in part, that “Documented causes of autism
include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and
encephalitis [brain damage] following vaccination [emphasis added].
Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation
of the brain.”

The article goes on to discuss many potential vaccine-related
culprits, including the increasing number of vaccines given in a short
period of time. CBS award-winning journalist Sharyl Attkisson
interviewed Ratajczak on her findings. “What I have published is
highly concentrated on hypersensitivity, Ratajczak told Attkisson in
an interview, “the body’s immune system being thrown out of balance.”

No less a scientist than Dr. James R. Shannon, former Director,
National Institute of Health, stated, “The only safe vaccine is one
that is never used (
https://vactruth.com/2011/06/06/part-1-of-3-an-interview-about-vaccines-with-helen-v-ratajczak-phd/
).” Robert De Niro is a magnificent actor. He let go of an opportunity
to give mankind far more.

F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds
a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling
author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine
“New Eastern Outlook ( http://journal-neo.org/ )”.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 12:20:47 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:20:47 -0300
Subject: Robert De Niro and Autism =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= a Tragic Drama of
 Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <5713e201.95548c0a.6bb55.0302@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:24:39 -0700
Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:

> I generally
> ignore this list because of the nonsensical mess a few of you have
> made of it, which has driven off so many others as well. 


	It would be interesting to learn how many crypto-anarchists
	were driven off. On the other hand it's quite clear that some
	of the people who left were outright hostile to the fundamental
	and most basic tenet of cypherpunks : political anarchy.

	Also, the fact that some people sometimes post off topic stuff
	doesn't prevent other people from posting on topic stuff does
	it? 


> Back to
> ignore mode.
> 
> -S
> 
> 
> ----------
> On April 17, 2016 10:42:50 AM  Александр  <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > > 2016-04-17 19:33 GMT+03:00 Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>:
> > > >
> > > > Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a cypherpunks
> > > listserv?  Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > That's your own IMHO. You forgot to mention that.
> > You've got thousands of people on this list. Not only you/a few
> > more people who keep whining about "shitposts/ offtopic".
> >
> > By the way, i never read any of your own "great/ONtopic" posts (not
> > talking about comments).
> 
> 





From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr 17 09:21:34 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:21:34 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?The_Closet_Russian_in_Wolf=E2=80=99s_Clothing_=2D_but_may_be?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_not_quite_as_you=27d_think?=
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSS6HoyYs6FOmwqdSFQ_6i8fAsbrT8Z9JTBUtZrgsXO=Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Comedy gold - or perhaps not even bronze for some, but hey, there's at
least a one in 7 billion chance this might tickle your funny bone.
Enjoy.

http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/16/donald-trump-loves-vladimir-putin-what-the-hell-is-going-on/
 16.04.2016 Author: Seth Ferris
Donald Trump Loves Vladimir Putin: What the Hell is Going On?
Column: Politics
Region: USA in the World

4534544The world follows every US Presidential election race because
the outcome affects billions of peoples’ lives. There isn’t a country
anywhere untouched by US policy. So it matters a great deal who is in
charge, and what the person is likely to do if elected.

As most Americans are observing with some horror, the Republican
primaries are consistently throwing up the scenario even that party’s
establishment doesn’t want. Despite all the party bosses’ attempts to
stop him, billionaire businessman and reality TV star Donald Trump has
emerged as the most popular candidate.

At the time of writing Trump had gained the support of around 755
pledged delegates, as opposed to 521 for his nearest rival, Ted Cruz
of Texas. Despite being considered a joke at the beginning of the
campaign, Trump is so far ahead that 90% of the remaining delegates
would have to pledge for Cruz to stop Trump becoming the Republican
presidential candidate.

Trump is scaring people because he is not so much right-wing as from
another planet. He has views on immigrants, the poor, and the
unemployed which would make the most reactionary dictators in history
blush. He also happily accepts being labelled a fascist in a country
with a large and sensitive Jewish population.

Therefore it would be entirely consistent for this man to be
virulently anti-Russian, as Russia has long been synonymous, in
American eyes, with all the things Trump thinks are wrong with the
country.But nothing could be further from the truth. Trump has
expressed great admiration for Vladimir Putin, and pledged to work
with him, as an ally, if he becomes president. Putin in turn has
described Trump as an “outstanding man” and “unquestionably talented (
http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Trump/?on=russia )”.

The US-Soviet rapprochement under Ronald Reagan, who frequently
referred to the USSR as the “Evil Empire”, seemed amazing at the time.
But it is nowhere near as weird as a US-Russia friendship with Trump
in charge. Wouldn’t Trump rather nuke the place to bits and fill
what’s left of it with Mexicans?What on earth is going on?

The Joke That Is All Too Serious

Trump is striking a chord with a significant portion of the US
electorate because only the US could have produced a Donald Trump. The
characteristics of that society have made him what he is, and even his
opponents have to accept that he is a recognisable, albeit unpleasant,
face of their country.

You can often tell what a country is like when you see what provokes a
response there but not elsewhere. For example, in France it is a very
serious offence to write an anonymous letter, even an anodyne or
complimentary one, because people remember the anonymous denunciations
of members of the Resistance to the Nazis. Other countries do not see
what the fuss is about.

In the US there is an attitude towards big business which other
countries never quite get. In most countries businessmen are seen as
boring, or the enemies of the ordinary man. They wear their own
clothes, speak their own language and have concerns which the rest of
the world aren’t interested in; the business section of a newspaper is
the one you most often find discarded on a train or bus.

In the US it is different. Becoming a big businessman from humble
origins is the so-called American Dream. Only millionaires can
effectively compete in national politics, not simply because there are
no spending limits but because that is how they gain the necessary
public respect. Business is a glamorous world in the US, and top
businessmen are celebrities in the same way rock stars and actors are
in other countries, because they are what every American is told they
should aspire to be.

Trump was a celebrity long before he started appearing on business
advice programmes, simply because he was a famous businessman. Not for
him the corporate dinners and army of secretaries to protect him from
the public. Only in America could someone like Trump be the subject of
a Comedy Central Celebrity Roast, in which comedians line up to insult
someone the audience know as a household name (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nwborH3Dq4&list=PLIdyfW1oW4yRpE4-47EHlT1cmBdFQzeXI&index=34
).

But this celebrity doesn’t come with anything else. It isn’t earned by
having anything to say, simply by the machinery of American society
itself, as Martin Scorsese’s film “The King of Comedy” cruelly exposed
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2Lc0txkbk ). The last thing
Americans want is for such celebrities to say and do anything
reasonable, which reduces them to the level of mere mortals. They have
to be larger than life to remain celebrities and icons, and Trump is
now working this to the full.

The Republican Party has long argued that a liberal intelligentsia has
imposed alien views on the ordinary American. It is no coincidence
that the outrageous radio “shock jocks” who go out of their way to be
confrontational are right-wing, not radical left as they would be in
most countries. As Fareed Zakaria has pointed out, Republicans have
openly courted racists and made wilful ignorance into a badge of
honour to reposition themselves as the anti-political party.

Now Trump is capitalising on his celebrity the only way he is allowed
to. He could never be a serious candidate – Reagan only became a
politician years after giving up acting. By articulating the most
extreme positions, he is giving a voice to those who do a lot of noisy
posturing to distance themselves from practical politicians who can’t
afford to deal in slogans for the sake of it.

Trump is the Republican Frankenstein’s monster, the man they have
encouraged Americans to admire, however much they are trying to
subvert him now. But what is the US itself? Does it act in the
civilized, humane way it preaches, or go around the world adopting the
same attitudes towards others as Trump does, and taking the same
action against them as Trump advocates?

The Closet Russian in Wolf’s Clothing

In fact Putin has very good reasons for wanting to work with Trump,
and vice versa. Both Trump’s Republican and Democratic rivals are
quite content to continue with the traditional US policy of saying one
thing and doing the other. The fact that Hillary Clinton is leading
the Democratic race demonstrates this.

Trump really will try and do what he says, even though most of what he
says is obnoxious and cannot be done. Putin will know what he is
getting with Trump, and has good reason to think that the world is
better off with honesty, even if it is stupid in content.

Similarly, Dangerous Donald is very happy to take Putin on the terms
the US wants to take him on. In his comic book world, Putin is a tough
guy who swaggers around doing whatever he wants. While most of the US
would see this as a negative thing, this is what Trump himself
desperately wants to be. He’d rather have Putin in the same gang than
another one, when he knows his own wealth and fame were built on
bluster rather than being the genius he presents himself as.

If Putin has to work with Trump he will work with the real America,
and be very happy doing so. At present, he waits for the US to
compromise itself and then takes the same action himself to undermine
US hegemony. With Trump in charge, he won’t have to wait. The US will
openly do what it pretends not to now, and Putin will advance Russia’s
interests every time Donald opens his mouth.

Actions Speak Louder Than Reality

Trump supporters, who were told he had no chance, are now displaying
their colours with increasing bravado. Recent Trump rallies have
descended into riots, with his own supporters trying to out-tough each
other ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/donald-trump/12193995/Donald-Trump-may-face-charges-for-inciting-a-riot-over-violence-at-rally.html
). With his hate rhetoric attracting people precisely because they
know that the “liberal intelligentsia” rejects it, violence is
similarly seen as a manifestation of “True Americanness” because it
will be even more condemned by the same people.

The reason Trump’s admiration for Putin has not seen him branded a
closet liberal by these people, as it should logically have done, is
because he has given a particular reason for it. He has stated, quite
reasonably, that the US is wasting money on all the conflicts it is
involved in and these interventions have left all those countries
worse off than before.

Trump ascribes this waste of US money and lives to the liberal
intelligentsia mentality of getting involved in civil conflicts for
arcane policy reasons, whilst ignoring the “real issues” that matter
to the average American. Ultimately, he sees this mentality as more
dangerous to America than anything the Russians might do, a new
departure in US politics of any colour.

Trump knows that Americans want action. Politics is talk, but bombing
terrorists is action. In fact he has recently alienated the US Army
brass by saying that the Geneva Convention is a “problem” which
prevents the US doing what it wants (
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/31/donald-trump-geneva-conventions-the-problem-military-foreign-policy
).

This raises questions about his Constitutional fitness to be
Commander-in-Chief, which raises interesting questions about whether
the courts would intervene if he were elected.

Trump regards Putin’s involvement in Syria as the sort of forthright
anti-terrorist action he wants to take himself, and derides his own
country for turning stable countries into hotbeds of terrorism. Forget
about politics, and the multitude of civil issues which need to be
handled at any given time by any given politician:in the eyes of
Trump, if you fight fire with fire, and enlist all the tough guys you
can to support you, America becomes great again. That is, in essence,
the entire foreign policy of Donald Trump.

But this attitude is not confined to foreign affairs. He maintains
that foreigners aren’t welcome in the US because they are potential
terrorists, and so are all welfare claimants because they aren’t
making millions like good Americans should. Trump himself is of
immigrant descent, as are nearly all American citizens, and has filed
for bankruptcy four times, making him less financially viable than a
welfare claimant. But none of this matters if he is tougher than the
next guy, even though others have to do the dirty work for him.

In Trump’s world order Russia will be expected to take a tougher line
against international terrorism to make Trump look better. It will
earn international brownie points by doing so, and be given a free
hand to pursue its every ambition as long as it calls it “fighting
terrorism.” This free hand is what the US itself has demanded for so
long, while trying to dress it up in other terms. A Trump presidency
would end Russian resistance to this by buying it off with the same
bauble.

Not As Good As It Looks

In such a scenario, America’s long sponsorship of terrorism will be
one of the casualties of the ongoing international revolt against the
political class. Not a bad thing, most would agree. But what will it
be replaced with? Ongoing attempts to call everyone a terrorist in
order to perpetuate a culture of celebrity designed to prevent
Americans addressing the very “real issues” Trump says he wants the
politicians to?

Celebrities such as Trump are treated as untouchable superheroes. As
such, they relate to great historical figures whose reputation has put
them in the same category. Trump would doubtless like to bracket
himself with one such figure in particular; Richard the Lionheart, the
legendary English king who spent all his time engaged in brilliant
combat for Christendom in the Holy Land during the Crusades, the stuff
of poems and ballads and the ideal of chivalry.

Richard the Lionheart avoided his own country as much as possible and
used it purely as a cash cow, practically ruining it in the process.
He was also several things his own people found unacceptable – an
admitted homosexual and, very probably, unable to speak any English,
as a Norman Frenchman. That is precisely why he has become a great
hero – if you look at him and his reign from any other angle, he
appears so negatively that there is little else to say about him.

Donald Trump sees Vladimir Putin as his ally in creating a ruinous
world for the sake of his own glory. Much of his country is giving him
that opportunity, through its own inherent weakness. It is true that
Russia has much to gain from jumping on this bandwagon in the
short-term – but Russia is not America. Putin can play Trump for a
long time, but he too will ultimately have to get back to the real
business before it’s too late, as will the American people.

Seth Ferris, investigative journalist and political scientist, expert
on Middle Eastern affairs, exclusively for the online magazine “New
Eastern Outlook”.




From dreamingforward at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 14:32:06 2016
From: dreamingforward at gmail.com (Xer0Dynamite)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:32:06 -0500
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Robert_De_Niro_and_Autism_=E2=80=93_a_Tragic_Drama_of_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?Intimidation?=
In-Reply-To: <5713fda9.5dc6370a.672a4.2b02@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713fda9.5dc6370a.672a4.2b02@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMjeLr8_AsGV=5xGcj6zdr6SeGOZ+Lg4oC3BivMDLbxg8X49rg@mail.gmail.com>

> 	By-the-way, the first problem with a discussion about vaccines
> 	and 'autism' is to take for granted that such a thing as
> 	'autism' has any intellectual legitimacy, when in reality the
> 	concept of 'autism' is pseudo scientific garbage coming from the
> 	same scumbag 'scientists' who considered homosexuality a kind
> 	of 'mental illness' and who to this day 'cure' children who
> 	'suffer' 'ADHD' by giving them amphetamine.

Are you sure you want to go here Juan?  Because like it or not, and no
matter how uncool or unmetro it is, cutting off your penis does not
make you a woman.  Yet the LBGQT crowd woudl debase women by calling
such crippled men "women".  Also, poop doesn't and cannot make
love--you're body rejects the material coming out of your anus, why
wouldn't be pathological?  How about men who eat poop in the psych
wards?  Should the people who are evaluating them be considered
"Pseudo-scientific garbage"?

Feel free to take all the time you need to explain your position...

\m




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr 17 09:43:13 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:43:13 +0000
Subject: Iceland recap - Icelandic Justice and Criminal Bankers
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRoBYddsNGO=EXoEM61G5zxvcsaj1jYdqkviJc4NkTG_A@mail.gmail.com>

An update on the current state of affairs - also note the second last
paragraph - now ex- prime minister Gunnlaugsson resigned/ stepped down
due to "Panama Papers", as he was "the only Western politician who was
directly mentioned in those papers".

Just who do those Nords think they are, putting bankers in jail?!!?!!!
Who ever heard of such preposterosity?!


http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/17/icelandic-justice-and-criminal-bankers/
 17.04.2016 Author: F. William Engdahl
Icelandic Justice and Criminal Bankers
Column: Society
Region: Europe

On September 15, 2008, a former Goldman Sachs chairman, US Treasury
Secretary Henry Paulsen, deliberately triggered a predictable global
financial meltdown when he decided to break precedent and let Lehman
Bros, the fourth-largest Wall Street investment bank, go bankrupt. The
reasons for his decision are for another time. The fallout from that
traumatic financial crisis remains very much with the world financial
system to this day, more than seven years later. One of the
little-noticed casualties of that Lehman Bros. debacle was the worst
banking crisis in the history of one of the world’s smallest
countries, Iceland. How that country of 323,000 citizens chose to deal
with the crisis is a model for the rest of the world. Instead of
beatifying the criminal bankers responsible for worst world financial
crisis in history, the people of Iceland did something quite
different.

Iceland, a beautiful Nordic island in the far North Atlantic between
Greenland and Norway, with active volcanoes, streams with some of the
most delicious non-industrial and non-GMO wild salmon, self-sufficient
in energy from thermal springs and hydroelectric power, got lured into
the mad, greed-driven frenzy of the US sub-prime real estate crisis in
a big way. In October 2008, amid the global financial Tsunami
triggered by Paulsen’s Lehman act, the Iceland government nationalized
the three largest private banks, Glitnir, Landsbanki and Kaupthing,
following depositor panic withdrawals. The three banks, in a few short
years after they were privatized had managed to amass debts ten times
Iceland’s annual DGP.

When a group of sensible US economists proposed Paulsen nationalize
the top Wall Street banks behind the crisis–JP Morgan Chase,
Citigroup, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs– to restore order and keep
credit flowing to the real economy, he replied that would be
“socialism. We don’t do that in America.” Instead, Paulsen’s US
Treasury used hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars to buy
non-voting shares of the Wall Street banks, meaning the Government
didn’t demand any say in the banks’ policies in return. That might be
called bankers’ socialism–privatize the profits and socialize the
losses.

By November 2008 the UK and Dutch investors in a now-defunct savings
scheme of Landsbanki, Icesave, found their hundreds of millions of
Pounds of investments were, indeed, frozen like ice—their savings were
frozen ice. When the British government demanded of the Iceland
government the repayment of the deposits in the UK branches of the
formerly private Landsbanki bank, an international dispute, known as
the Icesave dispute, erupted. The British government invoked
anti-terrorism legislation against Iceland in order to freeze the
UK-based assets of Kaupthing, Iceland’s biggest bank, bankrupting the
bank. Iceland’s government turned to the IMF for a $5 billion bailout,
the first European country since Italy in 1976 to do so.

Citizen revolt

The Governor of the Iceland Central Bank, David Oddsson went against
the government of Geir Haarde, who had been complicit in facilitating
the private bankers’s criminal Ponzi schemes, and stated on national
TV, “Icelanders will not pay the debts of profligate financiers (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Icelandic_financial_crisis
).”  In January 2009 Haarde’s coalition was forced to resign following
massive protests as unemployment soared from 1% before the crisis to
over 9% in months. The IMF, as always, was demanding severe Greek-like
austerity from the government as condition for its bailout. In
September 2010, Haarde became the first Icelandic minister to be
indicted for misconduct in office, and the only politician in the
world to be charged with responsibility for the financial crisis. He
stood trial before a special court for official offenses, the
Landsdómur. He was convicted on one count.

The Haarde government had twice negotiated terms under which Iceland
would repay the UK and the Netherlands governments, with interest, for
the cost of bailing out Icesave savers. The IMF demanded it as
condition for its money. And Parliament bowed. But Iceland’s staunchly
independent voters twice passed popular referenda rejecting the UK,
Dutch and IMF demands. Under the IMF austerity program, until it was
ended in 2011, Iceland went into an economic depression. Disposable
income fell by a quarter, and 30,000 people – one-tenth of the
population – went into serious loan default; thousands of homes were
repossessed ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/06/iceland-financial-recovery-banking-collapse
).

In April, 2013, 38-year-old Prime Minister, Sigmundur Davíð
Gunnlaugsson, was elected on promises of mortgage relief for every
homeowner instead of relief for foreign bank bondholders in Iceland’s
three failed banks. His government left international bondholders and
depositors out in the cold, as his government and Icelandic bank
administrators froze some 9 billion Pound sterling in foreign assets
the three banks held at the time of nationalization (
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/06/iceland-financial-recovery-banking-collapse
).

The new Finance Minister imposed a 39% tax on Icelanders wanting to
invest money abroad, as well as imposing capital controls, a move that
stabilized the currency. Most tellingly, the government prioritized
saving its people and economy and prosecuting and even jailing the
private bankers and politicians responsible for the crisis, a
180-degree contrast to the US or EU where governments used taxpayer
money to bail out the criminal banks responsible for the fraud in the
first place.

Jail the corrupt bankers!

On November 15, 2015, Iceland courts convicted the 26th banker
involved in the scandal that burst in September 2008. The bankers who
have gone to prison were charged with crimes ranging from insider
trading to fraud, money laundering, misleading markets, breach of
fiduciary duties, lying to the authorities, market manipulation to
embezzlement. Combined, the 26 jailed bankers will serve some 74 years
behind bars. As well, to date criminal fines totaling $212 billion
have been imposed on the 20 biggest banks. More bankers await trial (
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iceland-has-jailed-26-bankers-why-wont-we-a6735411.html
).

By contrast, at the failed British HBOS bank group, the largest UK
mortgage lending bank, taxpayers were forced to make a $29 billion
taxpayer bailout. The UK Financial Services Authority’s only
enforcement was against the head of corporate lending who was fined
£500,000 and banned from the financial services industry, and loss,
(the dishonor!) of knighthood for one HBOS director. In the failed
Royal Bank of Scotland, also bailed out by taxpayers billions, Fred
Goodwin, the head of Royal Bank of Scotland also lost his knighthood.
He had been knighted in 2004 for awarded in 2004 for “services to
banking.” In the USA, not even a whisper of criminal charges against
the CEOs or directors of JP Morgan Chase or Goldman Sachs or Citigroup
has been heard. Government fines against various banks are written off
and the same criminals that Iceland put behind bars are left free.

The Iceland difference

Today Iceland is the successful model for the precise opposite of the
IMF Greece model of squeezing blood from a stone with brutal
austerity. It is the first and so far only European country to surpass
the 2007 pre-crisis economic levels. GDP grew for the first six months
of 2015 at an impressive 5.6%. Inflation went from 18% at the start of
the 2008 crisis to 2% by 2015. National debt went from 88% of GDP in
2010 to 81%, below most EU levels. In March 2015, the government of
Iceland officially withdrew its earlier candidacy to join the European
Union, the only country ever to do so.

Paradoxically, Prime-Minister Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson was caught
in the middle of the Panama Papers scandal and was forced to resign
due to the fact that he didn’t disclose all the financial assets that
were in his possession. His was the only Western politician who was
directly mentioned in those papers, which seems odd at best. However,
Iceland is still reluctant to back down.

Iceland’s President, Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, explained the feelings of
his countrymen: “We were wise enough not to follow the traditional
prevailing orthodoxies of the Western financial world in the last 30
years. We introduced currency controls, we let the banks fail, we
provided support for the poor, and we didn’t introduce austerity
measures like you’re seeing in Europe. Why are the banks considered to
be the holy churches of the modern economy? Why are private banks not
like airlines and telecommunication companies and allowed to go
bankrupt if they have been run in an irresponsible way? The theory
that you have to bail out banks is a theory that you allow bankers
enjoy for their own profit, their success, and then let ordinary
people bear their failure through taxes and austerity (
http://www.loansafe.org/iceland-sentences-26-corrupt-bankers-to-74-years-in-prison
). “




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 14:18:45 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 18:18:45 -0300
Subject: Robert De Niro and Autism =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= a Tragic Drama of
 Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <5713fda9.5dc6370a.672a4.2b02@mx.google.com>



	By-the-way, the first problem with a discussion about vaccines
	and 'autism' is to take for granted that such a thing as
	'autism' has any intellectual legitimacy, when in reality the
	concept of 'autism' is pseudo scientific garbage coming from the
	same scumbag 'scientists' who considered homosexuality a kind
	of 'mental illness' and who to this day 'cure' children who
	'suffer' 'ADHD' by giving them amphetamine. 

	A discussion about how 'medical' propaganda is used to
	manipulate people and how the state-enabled pharmaceutical
	mafia operates wouldn't be horribly off topic for a
	crypto-anarcho-punk list IMO...




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 17 10:34:30 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2016 20:34:30 +0300
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Robert_De_Niro_and_Autism_=E2=80=93_a_Tragic_Drama_of_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?Intimidation?=
In-Reply-To: <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>

> 2016-04-17 19:33 GMT+03:00 Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>:
> >
> > Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a cypherpunks
> listserv?  Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.
> >
>

That's your own IMHO. You forgot to mention that.
You've got thousands of people on this list. Not only you/a few more people
who keep whining about "shitposts/ offtopic".

By the way, i never read any of your own "great/ONtopic" posts (not talking
about comments).
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 00:17:50 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 04:17:50 -0300
Subject: Robert De Niro and Autism =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= a Tragic Drama of
 Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr8_AsGV=5xGcj6zdr6SeGOZ+Lg4oC3BivMDLbxg8X49rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713fda9.5dc6370a.672a4.2b02@mx.google.com>
 <CAMjeLr8_AsGV=5xGcj6zdr6SeGOZ+Lg4oC3BivMDLbxg8X49rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57148a44.87a98c0a.924d9.35e3@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 16:32:06 -0500
Xer0Dynamite <dreamingforward at gmail.com> wrote:

> > 	By-the-way, the first problem with a discussion about
> > vaccines and 'autism' is to take for granted that such a thing as
> > 	'autism' has any intellectual legitimacy, when in reality
> > the concept of 'autism' is pseudo scientific garbage coming from the
> > 	same scumbag 'scientists' who considered homosexuality a
> > kind of 'mental illness' and who to this day 'cure' children who
> > 	'suffer' 'ADHD' by giving them amphetamine.
> 
> Are you sure you want to go here Juan?  Because like it or not, and no
> matter how uncool or unmetro it is, cutting off your penis does not
> make you a woman.  



	I've been looking at your message for a while and I'm still
	wondering how it is related to what I said. You don't seem to
	understand what the issue is, let alone be able to come up
	with a meaningful reply...
  

> Yet the LBGQT crowd woudl debase women by calling
> such crippled men "women".  


	Maybe you should ask jesus and your government to pass a law
	against it.



> Also, poop doesn't and cannot make
> love--you're body rejects the material coming out of your anus, why
> wouldn't be pathological?  How about men who eat poop in the psych
> wards?  Should the people who are evaluating them be considered
> "Pseudo-scientific garbage"?
> 
> Feel free to take all the time you need to explain your position...
> 
> \m




From dan at geer.org  Mon Apr 18 07:06:21 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:06:21 -0400
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 2016 15:42:54 -0400."
 <570566BE.4070006@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <20160418140621.8236FA06D8C@palinka.tinho.net>

 > Nobody has to "bypass" Congres; you have to take a bypass route to
 > include them in /any/ real decision making process at the Federal
 > level.  ;o)


"Real policy is made at the Circuit Court of Appeals."
      -- Sonia Sotomayor





From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Mon Apr 18 11:21:27 2016
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:21:27 -0700
Subject: Why Poor Whites Chant Trump, Trump, Trump
In-Reply-To: <20160418140621.8236FA06D8C@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <570566BE.4070006@pilobilus.net>
 <20160418140621.8236FA06D8C@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=iJumyngg_VBSWVG6f56iVj6YgniSm4xdMh64nFVMTEoNA@mail.gmail.com>

>
> "Real policy is made at the Circuit Court of Appeals."
>       -- Sonia Sotomayor
>


Which may explain why so many ordinary people feel they have no voice in
the government - because truly, they don't.
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Mon Apr 18 10:53:18 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:53:18 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Robert_De_Niro_and_Autism_=e2=80=93_a_Tragic_Drama_of?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_Intimidation?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57151F0E.8010101@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/17/2016 11:48 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Question - is it possible to have an open public discussion on
> the issue of vaccinations and their level of safety or
> otherwise?

My take, just for the hell of it:

1)  At least the best known early vaccines, and today's flu
vaccines, are placebos.

This is based on British public health statistics, consistently
showing mortality attributed to contagious diseases in radical
collapse before the introduction of vaccines against same, with no
noticeable acceleration in that collapse after the introduction of
the vaccines.  Long story short:  The entire impact of sanitary
sewer systems, safer water supplies, public health policy, public
health education and improved medical treatments for contagious
illness have been attributed to vaccines.

The studies most often cited in support of the effectiveness of
flu vaccines share a methodological error which, when corrected,
eliminates the appearance that flu vaccines have any effect,
either way, on mortality stats.  Long article, well worth reading:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine
- -matter/307723/

or https://tinyurl.com/9mpzmt8

2)  Vaccines probably do not "cause" autism.  The illusion that
they do would be present either way, as Autistim Spectrum
disorders normally become apparent as developmental delays and
atypical behaviors at about the same age children are given their
first multiple doses of vaccines.  I do think it is very likely
that vaccination triggers earlier appearance of these symptoms due
to the systemic stress of immune system overload, toxic
preservatives, etc. produced by the vaccines.

There are so many possible chemical drivers of subtle, complex,
not-understood neurological disorders like autism that singling
out one cause for an "epidemic" would require detailed studies of
comparable populations who, for instance, do and do not eat
manufactured foodlike product (anything not accurately labelled
"organic"), do and do not live in households that use novel
biochemicals daily (soaps and detergents with synthetic
components, anything "scented", etc.), do and do not live in
regions subject to major environmental toxicity, etc.  Lots of
luck getting that funded.

In summary:

Immunology is the science that tells us how vaccines should work.
 It is a very complex technical discipline, looking at massively
complex organic processes.  Any long term, motivated effort by
immunologists to produce arguments for or against the
effectiveness of vaccines should produce the desired "proofs."
Funding is only available for studies that /assume/ vaccines work.

Epidemiology is the science that can tell us whether or not
vaccines work.  It is a fairly simple and straightforward
discipline, easily understandable by any literate person who makes
the effort, and it tells us that vaccines do not work.

A possible exception:  Veterinary vaccines might actually work.
If so, only because in the process of developing them, massively
iterated "terminal experiments" are possible.  Not so with humans,
alas; all one has to go on there is "according to our PharmaChem
funded research, this /should/ work," and "hey, at least it does
not appear to kill people outright, so where's the harm?"

Personally, I don't use them.



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From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr 18 20:47:38 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
Subject: China's gold back story
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>

There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold backed
currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed, certainly even
in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness and security levels
of current computing facilities means hoarding physical gold is likely
seen by most, and certainly by nations, as more secure and acceptable
to the public psyche.
<end personal prattle>


----
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-16/china-embraces-gold-advance-post-dollar-era

China Embraces Gold In Advance Of Post-Dollar Era
Tyler Durden's picture
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/16/2016 20:50 -0400


Submitted by Koos Jansen via AllChinaReview.com,
http://www.allchinareview.com/china-embracing-gold-in-advance-of-post-dollar-era/


To challenge the US dollar hegemony and increase its power in the
global realm of finance, China has a potent gold strategy. Whilst the
State Council is preparing itself for the inevitable decay of the
current international monetary system, it has firmly embraced gold in
its economy. With a staggering pace the government has developed the
Chinese domestic gold market, stimulated private gold accumulation and
increased its official gold reserves in order to ensure financial
stability and support the internationalisation of the renminbi.


    “The outbreak of the crisis and its spillover to the entire world
reflect the inherent vulnerabilities and systemic risks in the
existing international monetary system…. The desirable goal of
reforming the international monetary system, therefore, is to create
an international reserve currency that is disconnected from individual
nations and is able to remain stable in the long run…”

    Quote from Governor of the PBOC Zhou Xiaochuan 2009.


In the present zeitgeist we find ourselves on the verge of a shift in
the global monetary order. The shocks through the financial complex in
2008 that reaffirmed the innate fragility of the US dollar as the
world reserve currency have sparked China to become a vocal proponent
of de-Americanization, although its end goal is communicated less
clearly. Being the second largest economy of the world but relatively
in arrears regarding physical gold reserves, China has a strong motive
to surreptitiously work on its gold program until completion. For, if
it would be candid in its gold ambitions, the price would
significantly run higher, potentially disturbing financial markets and
narrowing its window of opportunity to prepare for the next phase.
State Council Rapidly Developed Domestic Gold Market And Stimulated
Private Hoarding

China has been infatuated with gold for thousands of years. In the
mainland, gold mining and use can be traced back to at least 4,000
years ago, and the metal has always represented economic strength and
was regarded as the emperors’ symbol of power. Although the Communist
Party of China captured the monopoly in gold trade and heavily
restricted private gold possession since 1949, in lockstep with the
gradual liberalisation and the ascend of the Chinese economy the state
started to develop the domestic gold market in the late seventies,
which accelerated in 2002.

A new page was turned when the Gold Armed Police started operating in
1979, not coincidentally a few years after the US detached its dollar,
the world reserve currency, from gold. This army division was
initially assigned to gold mining exploration and has done so quite
fruitfully. Since 1979, Chinese domestic mining output has grown 2,137
% from an annual 20 tonnes to an estimated 467 tonnes in 2015. In
1982, the first steps were taken in reviving China’s gold retail
channels. For the first time since 1949 people were allowed to buy
jewelry and the China Gold Coin Incorporation started issuing Panda
coins. The Peoples Bank Of China (PBOC) continued to be the primary
gold dealer that fixed the price and controlled all supply flows.

The real reform of the Chinese gold market was implemented on 30
October 2002 by the launch of the Shanghai Gold Exchange, erected to
serve the full liberalisation of the domestic gold market. From that
date the fixing of the gold price in China was transmitted from the
PBOC to the free market. In 2004, the State Council approved gold as
an investment for individuals and the PBOC slowly repelled control
over supply flows. The Chinese gold market fiercely rose from its
ashes. By 2007 the market was functioning as intended when nearly all
gold supply and demand was flowing through the SGE system6. A year
later, in 2008, the Shanghai Futures Exchange launched a gold futures
contract supplementing existing derivatives at the SGE.

The Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE), which is a subsidiary of the PBOC,
is the very core of the Chinese physical gold market. Its
infrastructure provides a single liquid exchange overseen by the
state, granting all participants a trusty venue that can be
efficiently developed and monitored. The mechanics of the Chinese
market incentivise nearly all supply and demand to connect within the
SGE system. As a consequence, by the amount of gold withdrawn from the
vaults of the SGE – data that was published up until December 2015 in
the Chinese Market Data Weekly Reports – we could gauge Chinese
wholesale gold demand.

After the crisis in 2008, it became apparent in the higher echelons of
the Chinese government that the development of the gold market and
private accumulation had to accelerate to protect the Chinese economy
from looming turmoil. Through state owned banks and media wires the
citizenry were stimulated to diversify savings into physical gold.
Currently, at Chinese banks, numerous gold saving programs can be
entered into, or individuals can open an SGE account and purchase gold
directly in the wholesale market.


    “Individual investment demand is an important component of China’s
gold reserve system, …. Practice shows that gold possession by
citizens is an effective supplement to official reserves and is
essential for our national financial security.”

    Quote by the President of the China Gold Association 2012.


When the gold price came down sharply in April 2013, Chinese gold
demand literally exploded as in a once in a lifetime event. In between
22 and 26 April, 117 tonnes of physical gold were withdrawn from the
vaults of the SGE.


gold_graph


China has been a gigantic gold buyer ever since. Withdrawals from the
vaults of the SGE in 2015 accounted for 2,596 tonnes (90 % of global
annual mine output), up from a mere 16 tonnes in 2002. SGE withdrawal
data correlates with elevated gold import by China.

Whilst clearly enjoying their bargain purchases, China has established
a trend of increasingly obfuscating the true size of its gold demand.
Not long ago several reports were released in the mainland that
disclosed total gold demand to be the equivalent to SGE withdrawals.
Since 2012 these reports have been hidden from public eyes and in
January 2016 the SGE ceased publishing withdrawal data10. Although
annual SGE withdrawals have exceeded 2,100 tonnes since 2013, what is
generally publicised as gold demand is roughly half of this, merely
the demand at jewelry shops and banks that excludes direct purchases
from individual and institutional clients at the SGE. As a result, the
global consensus is that Chinese gold demand is approximately 1,000
tonnes a year though in reality it’s twice this volume.
PBOC Accumulating Gold To Support Renminbi Internationalisation

To free itself from US dollar supremacy and force the sequent monetary
system, China’s goal is to internationalise the renminbi. For
achieving its target, gold is identified as the key. It is the
absolute monetary asset to support the renminbi, the dollars’ Achilles
heel and a hedge during monetary stress. Next to the swift progression
in the Chinese private gold market we can observe the PBOC is covertly
buying gold and has launched the Shanghai International Gold Exchange
to prepare renminbi internationalisation.


    “For China the strategic mission of gold lies in the support of
renminbi internationalization, and so let China become a world
economic power…. Gold is both a very honest asset and forms the very
material basis for modern fiat currencies…. Gold is the world’s only
monetary asset that has no counter party risk, and is the only
cross-nation, cross-language … and cross-culture globally recognized
monetary asset.

    That is why in order for gold to fulfill its destined mission, we
must raise our gold holdings a great deal, and do so with a solid
plan. Step one should take us to the 4,000 tonnes mark, more than
Germany and become number two in the world, next, we should increase
step by step towards 8,500 tonnes, more than the US.”

    Quote by the President of the China Gold Association 2014.


Not surprisingly, China’s strategy is everything but linear. Let us
analyse the State Council’s most recent actions with respect to gold
and the internationalisation of the renminbi. In addition to gold
accumulation, the State Council has aimed to kick start renminbi
internationalisation by having it included into the International
Monetary Fund’s (IMF) basket of currencies, the Special Drawing Rights
(SDR), in 2015. For acceptance, the IMF required openness of China’s
international reserves, of which the PBOC hadn’t updated its gold
reserves since 2009. Here we found the PBOC stretched between opposing
forces; it obviously preferred to hoard gold in concealment not to
disturb financial markets, while at the same time it was requested to
open its books. In July 2015 the PBOC decided to revise its official
gold reserves by 604 tonnes to 1,658 tonnes, which was probably not
the whole truth but served both means, as markets barely reacted to
the increment – the gold price has not increased since then – and the
IMF has granted annexation of the renminbi into the SDR.

-How much gold does the PBOC truly hold-? Before we make an estimate
we must first address the question, how and where does the PBOC buy
gold?  --Some analysts assume the PBOC buys gold in the domestic
market at the SGE. According to my research this is not true. My
sources in the bullion industry tell me first hand that the PBOC buys
gold in the international OTC market using Chinese banks as proxies.
And this intelligence fits into the wider analysis, as there are many
reasons why the PBOC would not buy gold through the SGE.--

A rough estimate suggests the PBOC holds nearly 4,000 tonnes in gold
reserves, more than twice the amount they officially disclose. In a
quest for any clues we must visit the heart of the gold wholesale
market. Data by the London Bullion Market Association points out there
have been approximately 1,700 tonnes of monetary gold exported from
London between 2011 and 2015. China’s central bank is the foremost
suspect for these purchases, given its size and motives, and the
tonnage exported from London is consistent with other sources that
state the PBOC has bought roughly 500 tonnes a years since 2009. All
clues together point to the PBOC holding roughly 4,000 tonnes
currently. Although this remains speculation.

--More of China’s gold strategy was revealed by the recent launch of
the Shanghai International Gold Exchange (SGEI) that offers gold
trading in renminbi for clients worldwide, in an attempt by China to
strengthen the internationalisation of the renminbi.--  In itself the
SGEI clearly underlines China’s gold ambitions16, but the punch line
was added with the launch of the Silk Road Gold Fund in 201517. Led by
the SGE(I), the $16 billion fund will boost the gold industry along
the Silk Road and in turn “will facilitate gold purchases for the
central banks of member states to increase their holdings of the
precious metal”, according to the Chinese state press agency Xinhua18.
Not only is China trying to persuade all mining and consumption of
gold along the Silk Road economic project to be settled through the
SGEI in renminbi, additionally the Chinese promote gold as an
essential component of central banks’ international reserves going
forward.

--We must conclude that the State Council views gold as part of the
coming international monetary system.--  Why else does it quickly
develop the domestic gold market to be embedded in financial markets,
surreptitiously accumulate vast gold reserves and establish a
framework to boost gold business on the Eurasian continent around the
SGEI?  -In my view, China contributes significant value to its gold
strategy in the shadow of the apparent failure of the current fiat
monetary system. And if true, China’s central bank having nearly 4,000
tonnes of gold is well on its way to introduce the next phase.-



Links from the comments:

-----------
http://independenttrader.org/why-china-hides-their-gold-reserves.html


22.07.2015
Why China hides their gold reserves?

    Recommend this article:

      Comments: 1 »

China’s main goal is to internationalise yuan (CNY) and add it to the
currency basket of the International Monetary Fund. To succeed China
needed to update both of their currency and gold reserves. Last update
in 2009 put Chinese reserves at 1054 tons.

Speculations about how much gold is held by the People’s Bank of China
(PBC) seem to have no end.  The newest update was quite a shock. It
was stated that reserves amount to 1658 t and not to 3500 t as it was
commonly perceived. Allegedly reserves were growing only by 100 t per
year during last six years.

Publication was pushed by the IMF, but in my opinion the official
numbers are understated by a huge margin. Recently in one of my
interviews I highlighted that it is more than possible that number
given by authorities will be smaller than the true reserves but even I
was surprised with 1600 t levels.

Why Chinese did not publish their true level of reserves?

a) The IMF negotiations.

It has been several years since China and IMF are discussing adding
the yuan to the currency basket. Special Drawing Rights (SDR) is a
portfolio of dollar, euro, pound and yen. For years Americans having
the right to veto blocked any negotiations and changes.

It may be that in exchange for somewhat cosmetic change of the Chinese
gold reserves the US government agreed to smoothly include second
Asian currency to SDR. Still the US dollar is the biggest loser here
and consequently the US.

Around October the news may break that CNY after 5 long years of talks
will be officially added to the currency basket.

b) Currency reserves

Substantial majority of Chinese currency reserves worth 3.7 trillion
USD is held in short-term US government bonds. Informing the markets
that government reserves equal 5000 t rather than 1050 t would raise
question not only about the source of this plentiful stash of gold but
also who doesn’t have it anymore. This second part is very important
here. This uncertainty could push the price of this precious metal up
and distort delicate balance in the foreign exchange markets. Chinese
have big stake here equal to 98,4% of their currency reserves.

c) Importing at Black Friday’s prices… to be continued

Regarding gold reserves of the Peoples Republic, Roland Wand –
chairman of Chinese World Gold Council branch – said that “gold
amounts to 1,6% of Chinese reserves, while the ideal situation would
5%. If China announce today that 5% of currency reserves are in gold
the result would be huge climb of global demand and the price of gold.
This is not in the best interest of our citizens”.

Last but not least, government actively encourage its citizens to
invest their savings in gold.

What are the goals of China?

>From 20 years Chinese economy is the leader of fast growth. According
to PPP China is the number one economy in the world. While in many
aspects international arena still treats them as developing country.

Chinese policy will eye several goals in near future:

a) Internationalisation of yuan to change its stance from being
transactional currency to reserve one. Thanks to that China will paint
more trustworthy picture of itself on the global stage.

b) Preparing ground for solid currency (loosely bound to gold) with
simultaneous transformation of economy – from centrally planned to
free market.

c) Owning substantial currency reserves guarding against results of
bursting speculative bubbles (stocks, real estate) in the local
market.

d) Diversification of dollar reserves into various assets

e) Developing of alternative (not-western) market. New silk road and AAIB.

f) Dethronement of the US as the global hegemony.

Let’s now see how much gold PBC really has.

a) Production.

Source: Koos Janses, BullionStar.com

>From 2009 to 2014 gold yearly production increased from 315 t to 450
t. Most of the mines are owned by the state and there is a ban for
gold exports.

Since the announcement of official reserves in 2009, approximately
2200 t of gold had been produced. Share of this amount went through
Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) to individual consumers. What was left
probably resides in PBC’s vaults. Ratio is not yet known.

b) Official imports

Gold is imported to China through SGE and then to the market. Last six
years SGE noted the sell of 7000 t of bullion. It is safe to say that
majority ended up in Chinese hands as it is traditional medium of
amassing wealth. Substantial share was snatched by various funds
wholly owned by the state.

c) Unofficial imports

All gold passing from country A to B is recorded. Exception from the
rule is gold coins bought by central banks and government agencies. As
long as the gold is in coin form there is no available information
about its volumes and flows from one country to another. China is able
to import big volumes of aurum through government agencies and have
this imports hidden from official reports.

Similar situations were described by Jim Rickards in the second part
of his book:

“One of the high level G4S directors (global logistics company) shared
that he himself transported gold to China through mountain massif.
Transport was guarded by People’s Liberation Army supported by armored
vehicles. Gold was in 400 oz “good delivery” ingots used by central
banks”.

It is very hard to estimate volume of China’s government reserves. One
thing is for sure that 1660 t is too small of a number. According to
different calculations Chinese already accumulated from 4-8 thousand
tons. Some estimates talk about reserves being over 10 thousand tons
but personally I think it is exaggeration.

>From Chinese officials and also from central bank’s side we may have
heard rumors that government is able to import around 500-600 tons of
gold while still having stable gold market. Recent Dutsche Bank report
seem to confirm this data. In general it is very unlikely that
reserves are below 4.5 thousand tons.



Summary

The big problem of central bank reports is their lack of
accountability. The bank can say one thing but average investor has no
chances to verify it.

The US claims sine ‘50s that they have 8500 tons of gold. There was no
audit since then. Germany claims 3000 tons but majority is abroad.
This makes it hard to distinguish whether they have the gold or its
‘paper promise of return’.

China is no different. Central bank still holds only 1660 tons even if
another 3000 tons are held by funds controlled by the very bank
itself. Formally everything is square.

China’s gold lets them play a very successful game with the US.
Recently Uncle Sam had to accept the change to SDR basket. Next time
it may be other area of Chinese interest which will be focused, time
will show. On global scale this game is played not only for profit but
rather for control. Control is the biggest prize here.




---------
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/item/18455-imf-may-move-from-dc-to-beijing-chief-says

[Enormous number of links in this article, so just quoting the first
paragraph without the hyperlinks; enjoy]

"
Wednesday, 11 June 2014
IMF May Move From D.C. to Beijing, Chief Says
Written by  Alex Newman

IMF May Move From D.C. to Beijing, Chief Says

Days after attending shadowy meetings with top globalists and a member
of the Chinese Communist Party Central Committee, International
Monetary Fund boss Christine Lagarde (shown) shocked the world by
saying IMF headquarters could someday move from Washington, D.C., to
Beijing. The spectacular statement, which came after her attendance at
the infamous Bilderberg summit and the Rothschild-organized “Inclusive
Capitalism” conference, came amid an ongoing establishment effort to
prepare the world for major economic and political changes in the
coming years.

"




---------
Contary to the facile observations of "gold analysts" partial to
playing up "East vs West," "BRICs vs. PRICS." type memes, the Lloyds
and China LLC have been deep in conversation - through both pre & post
Mao eras. Just like with Russia, the entire "Chinese Revolutionary"
movement was a construction of WallSt/ThreadneedleSt; there have been
no changes in ownership since that early phase - just shift in tactics
( https://storify.com/SuaveBel/from-giants-to-pygmies ).

The so-called NWO has selected Sinoland as the next repository for
their planetary ambitions. Since Deng Xiaoping, the leadership has
been given a mandate - not exactly from "Heaven," but most certainly
to do "God's Work." And thus, carefully schooled in adopting the most
current western financial techniques, in order that they accumulate
the necessary heft in the financial arena for this changeover to
happen. They have also been intensely schooled in the limits to their
autonomy of action - the current downturn in the economy being
engineered with precision to demonstrate the perils of too much
'independent deviationism.'

There is a degreee of rebelliousness to all of this - the Xi regime is
composed of many layers of wily insiders, including some who are true
Sino-nationalists, aware of who's been messing with them for the past
century. That's what makes things interesting, watching what goes down
in the Middle Kingdom. And totally screws up the "analysis" of faraway
western-based writers who script their stories to silly comicbook
scenarios like BRICS and "death of the dollar."

Price suppression in gold and silver has been dictated by the policies
of those in control of China's financial fortunes for the past 5 years
- in conjunction with their agents of influence in western markets.
When they decide its time to change direction, so to will the POS/POG.
Until then, beware the revisionist dogma of consensus trance "gold
experts" peddling the stories which the puppetmasters use to cover up
their schemings.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Tue Apr 19 07:29:22 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 10:29:22 -0400
Subject: Do we have backup plan if this list disappears?
In-Reply-To: <20160419110644.GB674@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160419110644.GB674@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <571640C2.6010801@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/19/2016 07:06 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> 
> Do we have backup plan if this list disappears?
> 
> Two public security lists I have been on degraded to the point
> I unsubscribed (on the second they filtered me at SMTP).
> 
> Generalization:
> 
> Do we have backup plan if the interwebz lose a lot of
> connectivity? (maybe some kind of radio communications).
> 
> Probably revealing the plans to adversaries is not good idea,
> not sure.

Last time I looked there was still a copy of the historical CPunk
archive from JYA alive on the i2p torrent network.  Maybe somebody
will periodically upload updated torrents?  Backups are nice,
distributed anonymized backups are even more so.

For interactive use in i2p space, CPunks could be recast as a
"forum", or just route any ole *NIX list server through i2p and
use native i2p mail addresses.  Of course that won't be a thing
until or unless going dark (-ish) suits a critical mass of
subscribers.

I don't see that happening any time soon.  But then, the world
ends tomorrow, replaced by an even stranger one than appeared when
the world ended yesterday.

:o)









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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Apr 19 04:06:44 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:06:44 +0300
Subject: Do we have backup plan if this list disappears?
Message-ID: <20160419110644.GB674@sivokote.iziade.m$>


Do we have backup plan if this list disappears?

Two public security lists I have been on degraded to the point I
unsubscribed (on the second they filtered me at SMTP).

Generalization:

Do we have backup plan if the interwebz lose a lot of connectivity?
(maybe some kind of radio communications).

Probably revealing the plans to adversaries is not good idea, not
sure.




From tedks at riseup.net  Tue Apr 19 15:22:19 2016
From: tedks at riseup.net (Ted Smith)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:22:19 -0400
Subject: Robert De Niro and Autism =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=93?= a Tragic Drama
 of Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <5713e201.95548c0a.6bb55.0302@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713e201.95548c0a.6bb55.0302@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1461104539.24511.23.camel@riseup.net>

Someone with a little knowledge of R/similar could visualize the decay
of cpunks much better than this, but here are some people who wrote
code/built things/were real cypherpunks, versus fucking Mr. "Autism and
Racial Strength" (first post 7/3/2014) over here with this thread and
Juan "You're just an agent of the American Fascists" Garofalo (first
post 9/09/2013)  with the follow-through:

 * Cathal Garvey (last post 10/16/2015)
 * Eugen Leitl (last post 10/26/2015)
 * Peter Gutmann (seems to only troll now, but still posts)
 * James A. Donald (last post 01/24/2016)
 * John Young still posts, but substantially less
And now we're left with the above two concern trolls and company who
never even sent email to al-qaeda.net.

It's an abject falsehood that raising the noise to totally drown out
any signal and alienating the entire rest of the list is somehow not
harmful to the list. 

Nobody who A.) has no concrete contribution to the community and/or B.)
never posted to al-qaeda.net has any business posting more than, say,
John Young. This isn't censorship, this is the continuity of the
community. Just because you CAN spam cpunks with autism and racial
strength doesn't mean it's necessarily cypherpunk to do so. 

Maybe submit to /r/DarkFuturology, guys? You'd probably get more
engagement.

On Sun, 2016-04-17 at 16:20 -0300, juan wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:24:39 -0700
> Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> 
> > I generally
> > ignore this list because of the nonsensical mess a few of you have
> > made of it, which has driven off so many others as well. 
> 
> 
> 	It would be interesting to learn how many crypto-anarchists
> 	were driven off. On the other hand it's quite clear that some
> 	of the people who left were outright hostile to the fundamental
> 	and most basic tenet of cypherpunks : political anarchy.
> 
> 	Also, the fact that some people sometimes post off topic stuff
> 	doesn't prevent other people from posting on topic stuff does
> 	it? 
> 
> 
> > Back to
> > ignore mode.
> > 
> > -S
> > 
> > 
> > ----------
> > On April 17, 2016 10:42:50 AM  Александр  <afalex169 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > > 2016-04-17 19:33 GMT+03:00 Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a
> > > > > cypherpunks
> > > > listserv?  Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > That's your own IMHO. You forgot to mention that.
> > > You've got thousands of people on this list. Not only you/a few
> > > more people who keep whining about "shitposts/ offtopic".
> > > 
> > > By the way, i never read any of your own "great/ONtopic" posts
> > > (not
> > > talking about comments).
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
-- 
Sent from Ubuntu

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 14:32:47 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:32:47 -0300
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold backed
> currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed, certainly even
> in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness and security levels
> of current computing facilities means hoarding physical gold is likely
> seen by most, and certainly by nations, as more secure and acceptable
> to the public psyche


	It seems very very unlikely that any government will setup a
	mechanism that destroys one their fundamental means to loot
	their subjects : paper money and inflation. 

	Rather, what we are seeing is a move towards a fully
	'electronic' system in which we won't be able to buy half a 
	potato without being taxed by the world government.
 

	And funnily enough, we can thank 'satoshi nakamoto' for making
	this (disaster) happen sooner than later. 


	


> <end personal prattle>
> 
> 
> ----
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-16/china-embraces-gold-advance-post-dollar-era
> 
> China Embraces Gold In Advance Of Post-Dollar Era
> Tyler Durden's picture
> Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/16/2016 20:50 -0400
> 
>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 19 15:54:44 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:54:44 -0300
Subject: Robert De Niro and Autism =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= a Tragic Drama of
 Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <1461104539.24511.23.camel@riseup.net>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713e201.95548c0a.6bb55.0302@mx.google.com>
 <1461104539.24511.23.camel@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5716b723.88c48c0a.a178b.2e06@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:22:19 -0400
Ted Smith <tedks at riseup.net> wrote:

> and Juan "You're just an agent of the American Fascists" Garofalo

	some of you are, others like garvey are left-wing fascist clowns
	hostile to libertarian politics and thus hostile to core
	'cypherpunk' 'values'

	so fuck you. shitbag.  

	I stated : "It would be interesting to learn how many
	crypto-anarchists were driven off" 

	Now tell me stupid shitbag smith, who are the 'anarchists' that 
	left this fine mailing list. 

	
	I do agree that this list is pretty much a joke. And that is 
	because of people like you and because of the fact that there
	isn't any real opposition to government to be found, anywhere.

	And arent' you just another one of those tor cunts on the
	pentagon's payroll, "Ted Smith"? 


	
(first post 9/09/2013)  with the follow-through:
> 
>  * Cathal Garvey (last post 10/16/2015)
>  * Eugen Leitl (last post 10/26/2015)
>  * Peter Gutmann (seems to only troll now, but still posts)
>  * James A. Donald (last post 01/24/2016)
	
	pretty much a 'libertarian' right winger - why does a
	lefty-pentagon-clown like you worry about him? 


>  * John Young still posts, but substantially less



	Oh JY is one of the few sane voices here. I doubt you ever read
	or understood any of his posts. If you did you'd know that he
	doesn't take any of this 'security' stuff seriously, and rightly
	so.



> And now we're left with the above two concern trolls and company who
> never even sent email to al-qaeda.net.


	Go ahead and link your posts to the any previous cpunk mailing
	list. I'll be waiting. 





> 
> It's an abject falsehood that raising the noise to totally drown out
> any signal and alienating the entire rest of the list is somehow not
> harmful to the list. 
> 
> Nobody who A.) has no concrete contribution to the community and/or
> B.) never posted to al-qaeda.net has any business posting more than,
> say, John Young. This isn't censorship, this is the continuity of the
> community. Just because you CAN spam cpunks with autism and racial
> strength doesn't mean it's necessarily cypherpunk to do so. 
> 
> Maybe submit to /r/DarkFuturology, guys? You'd probably get more
> engagement.
> 
> On Sun, 2016-04-17 at 16:20 -0300, juan wrote:
> > On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 11:24:39 -0700
> > Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > I generally
> > > ignore this list because of the nonsensical mess a few of you have
> > > made of it, which has driven off so many others as well. 
> > 
> > 
> > 	It would be interesting to learn how many crypto-anarchists
> > 	were driven off. On the other hand it's quite clear that
> > some of the people who left were outright hostile to the fundamental
> > 	and most basic tenet of cypherpunks : political anarchy.
> > 
> > 	Also, the fact that some people sometimes post off topic
> > stuff doesn't prevent other people from posting on topic stuff does
> > 	it? 
> > 
> > 
> > > Back to
> > > ignore mode.
> > > 
> > > -S
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----------
> > > On April 17, 2016 10:42:50 AM  Александр  <afalex169 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > 2016-04-17 19:33 GMT+03:00 Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Why do you persist in posting this OT bullshit on a
> > > > > > cypherpunks
> > > > > listserv?  Go find a subreddit to pollute with your shitposts.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > That's your own IMHO. You forgot to mention that.
> > > > You've got thousands of people on this list. Not only you/a few
> > > > more people who keep whining about "shitposts/ offtopic".
> > > > 
> > > > By the way, i never read any of your own "great/ONtopic" posts
> > > > (not
> > > > talking about comments).
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 





From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr 20 02:49:43 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:49:43 +0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Apr 06, 2016 at 09:56:20AM -0700, Rayzer wrote:
> time a year. It also gets warmer. There used to be a couple of 90 degree
> days in the summer and the rest more moderate, typically in the upper
> 60s to upper 70s for most of the season ... Eight years or so ago it
> went up to 105f for two days in a row braking every known record. It
> gets into the 80s and 90s much more often now. No one has functional air
> conditioning here in their homes or cars, and most homes are only
> lightly insulated (if at all). Pity the poor commuters stuck in bay area
> traffic (not!)
>

Are spring floods common in Texas?

Since when?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/storms-bring-life-threatening-flooding-to-texas/
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/18/us/houston-texas-flooding/
At least 5 dead, hundreds rescued from high water in Houston flooding

As an aside, in Bulgaria floodings became relatively common.
Autumn and Spring are hard to tell, it is Winter xor Summer.




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr 20 02:54:43 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:54:43 +0300
Subject: Robert De Niro and =?utf-8?Q?Autism_?= =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= a Tragic
 Drama of Intimidation
In-Reply-To: <1461104539.24511.23.camel@riseup.net>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713e201.95548c0a.6bb55.0302@mx.google.com>
 <1461104539.24511.23.camel@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20160420095443.GB1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 06:22:19PM -0400, Ted Smith wrote:
>  * Peter Gutmann (seems to only troll now, but still posts)

This appears false. Peter expresses technical opinions:
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-September/009048.html

Sufficiently advanced trolling is indistinguishable from thought
leadership ;)




From seanl at literati.org  Thu Apr 21 11:30:52 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:30:52 -0700
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:32 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
> Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
>
> > There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold backed
> > currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed, certainly even
> > in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness and security levels
> > of current computing facilities means hoarding physical gold is likely
> > seen by most, and certainly by nations, as more secure and acceptable
> > to the public psyche
>
>
>         It seems very very unlikely that any government will setup a
>         mechanism that destroys one their fundamental means to loot
>         their subjects : paper money and inflation.
>
>         Rather, what we are seeing is a move towards a fully
>         'electronic' system in which we won't be able to buy half a
>         potato without being taxed by the world government.
>
>
What Juan said (minus the Satoshi nonsense). ZeroHedge are notorious gold
bugs. There's no freakin' way China is going to give up its ability to
manipulate exchange rates to promote whatever level of exports its central
planners think its businesses need. They are acquiring gold only in order
to diversify their reserves away from dollars, to reduce their dependency
on the United States in case the shit hits the fan in the Pacific. Making
the RMB "gold-backed" would mean letting people exchange it for the
government's gold, exactly counter to their goals.


>         And funnily enough, we can thank 'satoshi nakamoto' for making
>         this (disaster) happen sooner than later.
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From seanl at literati.org  Thu Apr 21 13:45:50 2016
From: seanl at literati.org (Sean Lynch)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:45:50 -0700
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAHKdp-mQeMY4dx9PTBWST8Z9e9_3r=GM7cDbFN6tbmaC0kWmUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:31 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:30:52 -0700
> Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:32 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
> > > Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold
> > > > backed currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed,
> > > > certainly even in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness
> > > > and security levels of current computing facilities means
> > > > hoarding physical gold is likely seen by most, and certainly by
> > > > nations, as more secure and acceptable to the public psyche
> > >
> > >
> > >         It seems very very unlikely that any government will setup a
> > >         mechanism that destroys one their fundamental means to loot
> > >         their subjects : paper money and inflation.
> > >
> > >         Rather, what we are seeing is a move towards a fully
> > >         'electronic' system in which we won't be able to buy half a
> > >         potato without being taxed by the world government.
> > >
> > >
> > What Juan said (minus the Satoshi nonsense). ZeroHedge are notorious
> > gold bugs.
>
>
>         I am a gold bug too, if gold bug means understanding of the
>         fact that physical cash is a decentralized and anonymous
>         system and that gold is a particularly good form of cash.
>

I think in ZeroHedge's case their goldbuggery goes beyond your belief in
gold's superiority (which I share) and into the realm of irrationality. It
starts sounding like a long-term pump-and-dump scam, if there were such a
thing.


>
>         Being truly decentralized and anonymous are not properties
>         that any cryptocurrency has, as far as I know.
>

Indeed, though I think Bitcoin and related research have provided the
necessary building blocks. ZeroCoin/ZeroCash, for example. As far as
decentralized, it's not clear to me that Bitcoin is really worse than gold
has proven to be in practice, with governments cornering the market on
mining & minting.


>
>         On the other hand, a cryptocurrency like bitcoin is threat to
>         governments and the financial mafia, so it's reasonable to
>         assume that the mafia is going to come up with some kind of
>         countermeasure.
>

Indeed. I'm just hoping it proves to be too little, too late.


>         But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing' their
>         own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...
>

And I agree with you that they will probably try to coopt Bitcoin or at
least blockchain technologies. If not to build their "cashless society"
then at least to try to crowd out potential uses for anonymous transactions
by ensuring that all the "legitimate" players are playing on a controlled &
tracked blockchain.
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From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Apr 21 07:32:38 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:32:38 +0000
Subject: How to win friends at AFRICOM - FOIA style
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSXdC5qASNXhqkuAAx9BaCEasS+6NWxZsnD4eqSzapi9A@mail.gmail.com>

I enjoyed this article:
http://www.blacklistednews.com/How_a_Simple_Request_Got_Me_Blacklisted_by_the_Pentagon/50594/0/38/38/Y/M.html

TRIGGER WARNING: contains terms FOIA, US DoD, and negative
implications about American DoD transparency.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 13:31:15 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 17:31:15 -0300
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:30:52 -0700
Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:32 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
> > Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> >
> > > There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold
> > > backed currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed,
> > > certainly even in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness
> > > and security levels of current computing facilities means
> > > hoarding physical gold is likely seen by most, and certainly by
> > > nations, as more secure and acceptable to the public psyche
> >
> >
> >         It seems very very unlikely that any government will setup a
> >         mechanism that destroys one their fundamental means to loot
> >         their subjects : paper money and inflation.
> >
> >         Rather, what we are seeing is a move towards a fully
> >         'electronic' system in which we won't be able to buy half a
> >         potato without being taxed by the world government.
> >
> >
> What Juan said (minus the Satoshi nonsense). ZeroHedge are notorious
> gold bugs. 


	I am a gold bug too, if gold bug means understanding of the
	fact that physical cash is a decentralized and anonymous
	system and that gold is a particularly good form of cash.

	Being truly decentralized and anonymous are not properties
	that any cryptocurrency has, as far as I know.

	On the other hand, a cryptocurrency like bitcoin is threat to
	governments and the financial mafia, so it's reasonable to
	assume that the mafia is going to come up with some kind of
	countermeasure.

	But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing' their
	own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...

		
	

> There's no freakin' way China is going to give up its
> ability to manipulate exchange rates to promote whatever level of
> exports its central planners think its businesses need. They are
> acquiring gold only in order to diversify their reserves away from
> dollars, to reduce their dependency on the United States in case the
> shit hits the fan in the Pacific. Making the RMB "gold-backed" would
> mean letting people exchange it for the government's gold, exactly
> counter to their goals.
> 
> 
> >         And funnily enough, we can thank 'satoshi nakamoto' for
> > making this (disaster) happen sooner than later.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 15:04:08 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:04:08 -0300
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <CAHKdp-mQeMY4dx9PTBWST8Z9e9_3r=GM7cDbFN6tbmaC0kWmUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-mQeMY4dx9PTBWST8Z9e9_3r=GM7cDbFN6tbmaC0kWmUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57194e42.49268c0a.b0b94.5977@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:45:50 -0700
Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:

> I think in ZeroHedge's case their goldbuggery goes beyond your belief
> in gold's superiority (which I share) and into the realm of
> irrationality. It starts sounding like a long-term pump-and-dump
> scam, if there were such a thing.


	Well, I personally don't trust the likes of zerohedge too much
	(I don't really follow them either) but it seems to me that
	although the market for gold is risky because it isn't too
	free, the price of gold still is a reliable measure of the
	devaluation of the dollar (or any other gov't paper)



> 
> 
> >
> >         Being truly decentralized and anonymous are not properties
> >         that any cryptocurrency has, as far as I know.
> >
> 
> Indeed, though I think Bitcoin and related research have provided the
> necessary building blocks. ZeroCoin/ZeroCash, for example. As far as
> decentralized, it's not clear to me that Bitcoin is really worse than
> gold has proven to be in practice, with governments cornering the
> market on mining & minting.


	Yes. But any kind of physical cash is decentralized in the
	sense that two parties can make a transaction without needing a
	middleman/miner/unique database/computer network.


> 
> 
> >
> >         On the other hand, a cryptocurrency like bitcoin is threat
> > to governments and the financial mafia, so it's reasonable to
> >         assume that the mafia is going to come up with some kind of
> >         countermeasure.
> >
> 
> Indeed. I'm just hoping it proves to be too little, too late.


	I guess we'll have to wait and see...



> 
> 
> >         But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing'
> > their own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...
> >
> 
> And I agree with you that they will probably try to coopt Bitcoin or
> at least blockchain technologies. If not to build their "cashless
> society" then at least to try to crowd out potential uses for
> anonymous transactions by ensuring that all the "legitimate" players
> are playing on a controlled & tracked blockchain.


	https://www.hyperledger.org/    ? 

	
	




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Apr 21 18:28:19 2016
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 19:28:19 -0600
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>
References: <CAOsGNSS2+q8cPyiNj6Fw_Bkcpik7+1+dTAxY-UViGF3xK0z5bg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5716a3ed.09158c0a.32e88.2437@mx.google.com>
 <CAHKdp-=eOkq=98SjiS92zbRj9sRg6PxYwOjnco16XnDwuVS7=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5719387b.c1278d0a.eb4b.18ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <57197E33.8090906@riseup.net>

On 04/21/2016 02:31 PM, juan wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:30:52 -0700
> Sean Lynch <seanl at literati.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:32 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016 03:47:38 +0000
>>> Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There appears to be a multi country effort to (re)build gold
>>>> backed currencies, and there's every chance they will succeed,
>>>> certainly even in the face of crypto currencies - the robustness
>>>> and security levels of current computing facilities means
>>>> hoarding physical gold is likely seen by most, and certainly by
>>>> nations, as more secure and acceptable to the public psyche
>>>
>>>
>>>         It seems very very unlikely that any government will setup a
>>>         mechanism that destroys one their fundamental means to loot
>>>         their subjects : paper money and inflation.
>>>
>>>         Rather, what we are seeing is a move towards a fully
>>>         'electronic' system in which we won't be able to buy half a
>>>         potato without being taxed by the world government.
>>>
>>>
>> What Juan said (minus the Satoshi nonsense). ZeroHedge are notorious
>> gold bugs. 
> 
> 
> 	I am a gold bug too, if gold bug means understanding of the
> 	fact that physical cash is a decentralized and anonymous
> 	system and that gold is a particularly good form of cash.

I'm not a "gold bug". But I do own (physically possess) enough gold to
live on for a few years, even at current prices. Also silver, computer
gear and parts, some guns and ammunition, and so on. One never knows.

> 	Being truly decentralized and anonymous are not properties
> 	that any cryptocurrency has, as far as I know.
> 
> 	On the other hand, a cryptocurrency like bitcoin is threat to
> 	governments and the financial mafia, so it's reasonable to
> 	assume that the mafia is going to come up with some kind of
> 	countermeasure.

I use Bitcoin, but don't hoard it. It's a convenient way to get paid and
lease services online. And I know how to use it, as anonymously as
needed. I don't really care about the "threat" aspects. I just do my
thing, and do what it takes to be left alone.

> 	But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing' their
> 	own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...

Assholes do shit all the time ;)

<SNIP>




From dan at geer.org  Fri Apr 22 11:16:37 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 14:16:37 -0400
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:45:50 -0700."
 <CAHKdp-mQeMY4dx9PTBWST8Z9e9_3r=GM7cDbFN6tbmaC0kWmUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160422181637.DAE25A06E97@palinka.tinho.net>

 | >         But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing' their
 | >         own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...
 | 
 | And I agree with you that they will probably try to coopt Bitcoin or at
 | least blockchain technologies. If not to build their "cashless society"
 | then at least to try to crowd out potential uses for anonymous transactions
 | by ensuring that all the "legitimate" players are playing on a controlled &
 | tracked blockchain.

I (think I) understand why a regime like China wants a
cashless society, but what is in it for Sweden (which is
much farther along the road to Hell)?

--dan




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Apr 22 17:46:37 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 00:46:37 +0000
Subject: China's gold back story
In-Reply-To: <20160422181637.DAE25A06E97@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAHKdp-mQeMY4dx9PTBWST8Z9e9_3r=GM7cDbFN6tbmaC0kWmUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160422181637.DAE25A06E97@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRXq3VxsKvZd9FENs9zidWheqoi3CLYY9sE+ymXr_VApA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/16, dan at geer.org <dan at geer.org> wrote:
>  | >         But yeah, it's also true that they've been 'developing' their
>  | >         own electric monies before bitcoin arrived into the scene...
>  |
>  | And I agree with you that they will probably try to coopt Bitcoin or at
>  | least blockchain technologies. If not to build their "cashless society"
>  | then at least to try to crowd out potential uses for anonymous
> transactions
>  | by ensuring that all the "legitimate" players are playing on a controlled
> &
>  | tracked blockchain.
>
> I (think I) understand why a regime like China wants a
> cashless society, but what is in it for Sweden (which is
> much farther along the road to Hell)?

Fear I think, the endless desire of those in power to hold onto that
power, and to try ever further sheeple controlling techniques to that
end.

Sweden appears entirely bound by the balls, Assange rape charges and
extradition - the conduct and sequence of events is, to my eyes, an
indictment against Swedish politicians and the Swedish legal and law
enforcement establishment. I hold that such a number of humans acting
unethically in concert do so because they are compromised - sexually,
financially, or by threats and intimidation. Those who desire control
catch more political bees with honey I suspect, which leads me to
think wikileaks, or rather anonymous publishing, scares the living
daylights out of them.

Only a matter of time before the leak of all leaks makes it public...
as the infighting grows, loyalty blows; will require purported
descriptions for public media consumption rather than direct wikileaks
publishing though, one can imagine.




From jnn at synfin.org  Fri Apr 22 21:50:47 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 00:50:47 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Robert_De_Niro_and_Autism_=E2=80=93_a_Tragic_Dra?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ma_of_Intimidation?=
In-Reply-To: <CAMjeLr8_AsGV=5xGcj6zdr6SeGOZ+Lg4oC3BivMDLbxg8X49rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRYjTZis0pe+ZU7GifLOifCY3ijZNExmZhXivs_3Qg03Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417163258.AA069680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAEm6KbLQpfo6sADr-uGskKV-4oyEpeuMFyzV1Q31hnMA4HhOHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160417182423.08C56680197@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <5713fda9.5dc6370a.672a4.2b02@mx.google.com>
 <CAMjeLr8_AsGV=5xGcj6zdr6SeGOZ+Lg4oC3BivMDLbxg8X49rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9678b87235dc126188df273d4842fca3@synfin.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2016-04-17 17:32, Xer0Dynamite wrote:
> Are you sure you want to go here Juan?  Because like it or not, and no
> matter how uncool or unmetro it is, cutting off your penis does not
> make you a woman.  Yet the LBGQT crowd woudl debase women by calling

What the fuck do you care what someone wants to call themselves?

> such crippled men "women".  Also, poop doesn't and cannot make
> love--you're body rejects the material coming out of your anus, why

Who made you the arbiter of what is and isnt sex? The fuck do you care?
Methink thy doth protest too much ...

- -- 
John
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From jnn at synfin.org  Fri Apr 22 22:34:33 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 01:34:33 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>


> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/storms-bring-life-threatening-flooding-to-texas/
> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/18/us/houston-texas-flooding/
> At least 5 dead, hundreds rescued from high water in Houston flooding

These horrific spring floods weren't common in the 90s when I was in Texas. Or maybe I was too stoned to notice.

We got 30 inches of snow just outside DC in MD this winter, something that hasn't happened in... well, since before I came up here. 

Greenland permafrost is fucking melting. But I've only born witness to that indirectly.

I think it's pretty obvious we are fucked here if we don't make some changes. Maybe this is fermi's great filter.

--
John






From mtal at hushmail.com  Sat Apr 23 17:06:36 2016
From: mtal at hushmail.com (mtal at hushmail.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:06:36 -0500
Subject: Clipper chip datasheet?
Message-ID: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>

I've taken an interest in this little guy recently and I've managed to
find a fair bit of information in the form of retrospectives and a few
academic papers, but nothing more technical. Considering it's been
defunct for decades I'm surprised datasheets and manuals aren't easier
to find online (or maybe it's just me?). Does anybody happen to know
if/where any such material can be found?
Thanks. 
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From rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Apr 23 20:08:52 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 20:08:52 -0700
Subject: Clipper chip datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>
References: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <571C38C4.7010507@riseup.net>

http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/usa/clipper.htm

On 04/23/2016 05:06 PM, mtal at hushmail.com wrote:
> I've taken an interest in this little guy recently and I've managed to
> find a fair bit of information in the form of retrospectives and a few
> academic papers, but nothing more technical. Considering it's been
> defunct for decades I'm surprised datasheets and manuals aren't easier
> to find online (or maybe it's just me?). Does anybody happen to know
> if/where any such material can be found?
>
> Thanks. 

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 12:40:04 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 16:40:04 -0300
Subject: Clipper chip datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C632D7@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C632D7@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <571d20f5.0f49620a.c1637.7413@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:25:37 +0000
Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

> mtal at hushmail.com <mtal at hushmail.com> writes:
> 
> >Does anybody happen to know if/where any such material can be found?
> 
> I don't know about docs, but you can buy the devices themselves in
> bulk:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPYRUS-FORTEZZA-CARDS-CASE-OF-100-FREE-SHIPPING-/201477138783
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-200-spyrus-Fortezza-Compatible-Smart-Cards-for-Gold-Scrap-Recovery-/272213078099
> 
> As Lucky Green recently pointed out to me, the government's previous
> attempt at backdooring crypto is now being sold as scrap.
> 

	you mean, all the garbage that apple produces? Ah, no, that's
	the current (successful) attempt =) 





> Peter.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Apr 24 11:25:37 2016
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:25:37 +0000
Subject: Clipper chip datasheet?
In-Reply-To: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>
References: <20160424000637.0C7A92011A@smtp.hushmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4C632D7@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

mtal at hushmail.com <mtal at hushmail.com> writes:

>Does anybody happen to know if/where any such material can be found?

I don't know about docs, but you can buy the devices themselves in bulk:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPYRUS-FORTEZZA-CARDS-CASE-OF-100-FREE-SHIPPING-/201477138783
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-200-spyrus-Fortezza-Compatible-Smart-Cards-for-Gold-Scrap-Recovery-/272213078099

As Lucky Green recently pointed out to me, the government's previous attempt
at backdooring crypto is now being sold as scrap.

Peter.




From gmoss82 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 18:55:54 2016
From: gmoss82 at gmail.com (Greg Moss)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 18:55:54 -0700
Subject: "60 Minutes" hacks Congressman's phone
Message-ID: <vc1t3w7tls5fi5h5g5h48xh6.1461549354162@email.android.com>

Please post link to script - thanks

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-hacking-your-phone/
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/12/18/german-researchers-discover-a-flaw-that-could-let-anyone-listen-to-your-cell-calls-and-read-your-texts/
>
>2016 Apr 17 Correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi reports on how cellphones and
>mobile phone networks are vulnerable to hacking
>
>The following script is from "Hacking Your Phone" which aired on April
>17, 2016.  Sharyn Alfonsi is the correspondent.  Howard L. Rosenberg
>and Julie Holstein, producers.
>
>A lot of modern life is interconnected through the Internet of things
>-- a global empire of billions of devices and machines. Automobile
>navigation systems.  Smart TVs.  Thermostats.  Telephone networks.
>Home security systems.  Online banking.  Almost everything you can
>imagine is linked to the world wide web.  And the emperor of it all is
>the smartphone.  You've probably been warned to be careful about what
>you say and do on your phone, but after you see what we found, you
>won't need to be warned again.
>
>We heard we could find some of the world's best hackers in Germany...
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 18:38:25 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:38:25 -0400
Subject: "60 Minutes" hacks Congressman's phone
In-Reply-To: <E1asA6R-00034O-RL@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1asA6R-00034O-RL@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_T=-pR88-ha5+_T2Yi9vtObooic1OUDWvvP7tOO8gV4g@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-hacking-your-phone/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/12/18/german-researchers-discover-a-flaw-that-could-let-anyone-listen-to-your-cell-calls-and-read-your-texts/

2016 Apr 17 Correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi reports on how cellphones and
mobile phone networks are vulnerable to hacking

The following script is from "Hacking Your Phone" which aired on April
17, 2016.  Sharyn Alfonsi is the correspondent.  Howard L. Rosenberg
and Julie Holstein, producers.

A lot of modern life is interconnected through the Internet of things
-- a global empire of billions of devices and machines. Automobile
navigation systems.  Smart TVs.  Thermostats.  Telephone networks.
Home security systems.  Online banking.  Almost everything you can
imagine is linked to the world wide web.  And the emperor of it all is
the smartphone.  You've probably been warned to be careful about what
you say and do on your phone, but after you see what we found, you
won't need to be warned again.

We heard we could find some of the world's best hackers in Germany...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 23:12:09 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 02:12:09 -0400
Subject: CryptoNote technical discussion and Chess Challenge
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_zHLwvP+gR8-7YyFxWin=gefp=wD6s9dOqR6=OnZFZYw@mail.gmail.com>

CryptoNote technical discussion and Chess Challenge
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1190988
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkFlarb/comments/3lwro6/chess_challenge/




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 21:49:04 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:49:04 +0300
Subject: The Management of Dissent: How to Destroy an Activist
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbKSOeAJ96aYUVCnFFzDCARHqUb2ra9H1pKk6o7ksSvsdA@mail.gmail.com>

 The Management of Dissent: How to Destroy an Activist
<http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/24/the-management-of-dissent-how-to-destroy-an-activist/>

By Janet Phelan <http://journal-neo.org/author/janet-phelan/>

While the West, and the United States in particular, has repeatedly voiced
criticism over human rights abuses in other countries, the US’s own record
in terms of detaining and incarcerating dissidents is now becoming
conspicuous.

In presenting a recent report on human rights issues, US Secretary of State
John Kerry stated: *“Here is the truth, we believe: A government that fails
to respect human rights, no matter how lofty its pretentions, has very
little to boast about, to teach, and very little indeed in the way of
reaching its full potential
<http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2016/04/255799.htm>.” *

This report itself is heavily weighted in terms of naming Asian and Middle
Eastern countries as human rights abusers. Kerry reports that *“In every
part of the world, we see an accelerating trend by both state and non-state
actors to close the space for civil society, to stifle media and Internet
freedom, to marginalize opposition voices, and in the most extreme cases,
to kill people or drive them from their homes
<http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/#wrapper>.” *

The United States is not named in the report.

However, the US is itself a major culpable actor in such abuses. Despite
its continuing and increasingly strained efforts to self-promote as a
defender of human rights, the US is now inhibiting media and internet
freedom as well as regularly imprisoning activists–often without trial.

The world is already aware of the use of the Espionage Act to imprison and
otherwise intimidate whistleblowers. The cases of Bradley Manning
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Manning>, Jeffrey Sterline
<http://www.ethiogrio.com/news/world-news/16718-ex-cia-officer-jeffrey-sterline-is-convicted-of-leaking-secrets-to-new-york-times-reporter-james-risen.html%20>
,  James Hitselberger
<http://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2014/06/esp-act-overcharged/>,      John
Kiriakou <https://www.rt.com/usa/229103-john-kiriakou-released-prison/>,   and
others have hit the mainstream press
<http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/24/the-management-of-dissent-how-to-destroy-an-activist/.https://www.aclu.org/blog/leak-prosecutions-obama-takes-it-11-or-should-we-say-526>
.

What the world may not be aware of is that non-CIA connected individuals,
who are merely attempting to correct and/ or broadcast injustices, are now
facing jail time.

*You Mean I Forgot to Tell You About Your Trial?*

Tim Lahrman is a name well known to disability rights activists. A trained
paralegal, Tim has been volunteering his paralegal skills to a growing list
of people who are engaged in legal battles against guardians and lawyers.

For those unacquainted with the issues concerning adult guardianships, an
overview reveals that these guardianships constitute a legal loophole
through which an individual may be declared incompetent and then stripped
of all his assets and the lion’s share of his rights. In fact, upon the
initiation of such a guardianship, the alleged incapacitated person may not
even be allowed to hire a lawyer to defend against the guardianship. The
National Association to Stop Guardian Abuse’s website has a compelling
summary of what rights are lost when one goes under a guardianship
<http://stopguardianabuse.org/>.

Robin Gibson, a Los Angeles woman, attributes Tim Lahrman’s legal expertise
to the successful resolution of an ongoing legal conflict with the guardian
for her mother.  Recently, the mother was released from a guardianship
which Gibson states was draining her mother’s estate and wherein the
guardian, Frumeh Labow
<http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/13/local/me-labow13%20>, had
virtually sequestered the older woman from contact with the outside world.

*“I owe this all to Tim,“* pronounced an exhilarated Robin Gibson in a
recent interview. *“I have finally got my mother back.“*

Gibson is only one of many who have benefited from Lahrman’s legal acumen
and skills. And she may be one of the last. For Tim Lahrman now sits in an
Indiana jail cell, held without bail on two seventeen year- old misdemeanor
charges.

Candice Schwager, an attorney from Texas, has this to say about Lahrman’s
incarceration:  *“There is an entirely different agenda behind this
seventeen year old persecution. It’s not even reasonable to think that
Goshen keeps misdemeanor cold case files and this was bad luck. This arrest
was retribution because Tim has brought up the crimes of a clouted
political figure.”*

Tim Lahrman was himself placed under a guardianship in 1987. He was at that
point in time in his twenties and an owner of a thriving automotive
business which was subsequently ravaged through the guardianship
proceedings.

Lahrman’s guardianship was never legally terminated. After sacking his
business, the guardian, Kenneth Scheibenberger, “just sort of wandered
off,” according to Lahrman.

This left Tim Lahrman in legal limbo. Neither his rights nor his property
were ever restored to him. He was left, in essence, as a legal zero.

As the law states, Lahrman thus could not have had the “legal capacity” to
commit the two misdemeanors with which he was charged in 1999 —driving with
a suspended license and possession of a small amount of marijuana.
Tim filed legal notice in the misdemeanor case of his stated “lack of
capacity.” The court took no notice and, after oddly failing in its legal
mandate to summon him for his trial, held the trial without him present,
found him guilty and sentenced him to two years. He was not present at the
hearing and was not subsequently apprehended.

Fast forward to 2016. Tim is not only assisting others in their
guardianship cases but has now filed a number of lawsuits in his own matter
<http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/24/the-management-of-dissent-how-to-destroy-an-activist/.https://dockets.justia.com/docket/circuit-courts/ca7/08-3791>
.

Filed on January 20, 2015 in the U.S. District Court for the Northern
District of Indiana, South Bend Division, Tim Lahrman also sued Elkhart
County Superior Court No. 2 (Stephen R. Bowers, Judge), the Chief Judge of
the Indiana Court of Appeals, the State of Indiana, the Office of Indiana
Attorney General and the Indiana Supreme Court Division of State Court
Administration. Lahrman was picked up in March of this year on the
seventeen year- old stale and expired warrant, and is being held in Elkhart
County Jail without bail. His writ of Habeas Corpus, filed with the court
this past week, was reportedly denied by Judge Bodie Stegelmann. According
to reports, Judge Stegelmann has ordered Lahrman into a psychiatric
evaluation.

Attorney Schwager, who has filed notice in this case, states that Tim was
put into “the hole”—solitary confinement—this past week after asking his
public defender for her name and also requesting the court file. The
request apparently frightened her. Schwager has more
<http://elderlawadvocates.org/gotcha-state-of-indiana-caught-in-its-own-trap-tim-lahrman-story/>
on
the case.

The public defender subsequently withdrew and the judge has ordered Tim to
appear pro se—without legal counsel.

*I Don’t Know You But I Am Sure You Are Incompetent*

Another disability rights activist, Cary Andrew Crittenden, is now being
held in Santa Clara County Jail, in Northern California, after being
arrested on Christmas Eve on “secret charges.”

We can only term the charges “secret” because the Santa Clara County
Prosecutor’s office has consistently refused to honor its legal
responsibility to release the records containing the factual circumstances
surrounding Crittenden’s arrest. The California Public Records Act,
clarified by the court case known as “Kusar” mandates the release of these
records.

Crittenden, who has launched an internet campaign against corruption in
Santa Clara County was previously arrested in Santa Clara County for making
online statements about public officials which were deemed to be “
*harassment*.”

An internal affairs complaint was filed on February 11 with the
Prosecutor’s office concerning the refusal of Assistant District Attorney
David Angel to comply with the records disclosure law, which is in place in
order to guard against “secret arrests.” This IA complaint appears to have
gone the way of the public’s rights to know—into the garbage can. No action
has been taken on the complaint.

The recipient of the complaint, a Lt. Jorge Perez, who states he is an
investigator with the DA’s office, has refused to even release the name of
the individual who has been assigned to investigate the complaint
concerning ADA David Angel’s refusal to comply with the law.

Recently, there was an attempt to have Crittenden declared incompetent to
stand trial. If an individual is so deemed, he may be incarcerated
indefinitely without ever having his day in court. Sniffing this rat,
Crittenden refused to attend the psychiatric evaluation which the court had
set up for him.

In a bizarre, Kafkaesque effort, a “doctor” –who never saw or evaluated
Cary Andrew Crittenden–trotted himself into court. In a declaration that
would have made any surrealist proud, Dr. Burke, the “doc-in the pocket” of
the court, intoned that in his professional opinion, Crittenden, a man he
had never seen, was “incompetent to stand trial.”

The fact that Burke had never evaluated Crittenden did not escape the
attention of the court, however. Crittenden was ordered into another
evaluation, and the subsequent medical professional reportedly determined
that Crittenden was indeed competent.

The propensity for courts now to order activists and dissidents into
psychiatric evaluation is something that deserves special attention. A
person adjudicated incompetent by a court may, in fact, never get a trial.
He can be locked up indefinitely on minor and potentially bogus charges and
also be court- ordered to be forcibly  medicated with anti- psychotics,
which constitute a chemical strait jacket.

If you think that the cases involving Lahrman and Crittenden are the
exception, you may rest assured that, for cases involving guardianship
activists, this is standard court operating procedure. Rosanna Miller, who
was attempting to protect her father’s interests while he was under
guardianship, was arrested in 2014 for failure to pay court costs. The Ohio
Supreme Court, however, had issued a memo stating that an individual cannot
be arrested for failure to pay court costs.

Questions were raised about the possibility that the Bellafontaine judge,
Ann Beck, was involved in a number of financial improprieties. Beck then
quickly released Miller from custody. Barbara Stone, a NY attorney whose
mother, Helen, was under a questionable guardianship in Florida, was
arrested and charged with “custody interference”—which mandates a potential
sentence of five years in prison—for allegedly taking her mother to lunch.

*If I Can’t Get You, I’ll Get Your Kid*

The psychiatric incarceration of John Rohrer raises further questions about
motives to detain this young man, and detain him possibly indefinitely.
Rohrer, who apparently wandered into the wrong house while under the
influence of a hallucinogen, has now been detained over ten years, the last
six and a half years as an in-patient in a state psychiatric facility. The
case has been fraught with illegal maneuvers by the prosecutors and judge,
including denying him his right multiple times to hearings to determine
whether he meets the state’s definition of being “mentally ill.” In fact,
Rohrer has never been deemed incompetent. Rohrer is now being held at
Appalachian Behavioral Healthcare, a State psychiatric hospital, where he
was forcibly drugged for years.

It should be noted that the Ohio Supreme Court has determined that a judge
may not order forced drugging unless he makes a finding that the individual
lacks capacity to consent. The forced drugging must also be in the
patient’s “best interests” and there must not be any alternatives deemed to
be as effective as the drugging. In the Rohrer case, Judge Corzine made
none of these findings, and in fact stated on the record that Rohrer
appeared “pretty lucid today.”

Nevertheless, Corzine ordered the forced drugging of John Rohrer.

According to reports, during a brief 2007 exposure to Risperdal, Rohrer,
who was at that time 27 years old, suffered a cardiac event, but this did
not stop it from being chosen as the primary drug to forcibly inject.

Medical and legal malpractice complaints were filed November 24, 2014 in
the Ohio Court of Claims and November 28, 2014 in the Franklin County
Common Pleas Court by the attorney for John Rohrer. The complaint states
that Rohrer was forcibly injected with Risperdal for more than 3 ½ years
although the drug is known to cause irreversible brain damage. In addition,
the complaint states that Rohrer’s rights to a fair hearing have been
repeatedly violated.

The activist in the Rohrer case is actually his mother. Attorney and talk
show host Katherine Hine founded the advocacy group Stop Child Abuse Now in
Oklahoma and advised a group of foster mothers who were outraged at the
involvement of judges and lawyers in the murder of 2 year old Ryan Luke in
1995. She is the Executive Director of the Ross County Network for Children
in Ohio, an organization with a strong history of conflict with the Ross
County Prosecutors, surrounding two child murderers that the County had not
wanted prosecuted back in the 1990’s.

Hine is now with WJLA radio hosting a two weekly broadcasts—one exposing
illegalities of forced psychiatry and another exposing the consequences of
the lack of judicial accountability. She also is a contributor to The
Columbus Free Press.

The Ross County Prosecutor’s office has made it clear that they despise
her. Now, they are the ones making sure John Rohrer stays locked up.

Hine has faced three disciplinary actions.  She writes, “My first
discipline was in Oklahoma in like 1981 or 1982 when my soon to be ex
grabbed by children in violation of an Oklahoma custody order giving their
temporary custody to me.” According to Hine, “He claimed he wasn’t served.”
She reports that “I got a private reprimand – where you go into an office
and they yell at you about 15 minutes.  Told me what a disgrace to the
profession I was and how ashamed they all were of being in the bar
association with me.”

She was subsequently reprimanded by the Oklahoma Bar in 1997 for
communicating with a judge concerning a matter involving a suspected case
of child abuse, in which she did not represent a party
<http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1997/20438.html>. In
fact, Hine had signed a letter along with seven other individuals who were
concerned that the judge had authorized supervised visitation of a child
with a sexual predator and that the supervision stipulation was being
ignored. In other words, the child was allowed to be alone with the
predator. There was another attempt at discipline when she was accused of
ghost writing for a pro se litigant, but Hine invoked confidentiality and
the complaint evaporated.

Concerning the lengthy incarceration of her son, Katherine Hine has this to
say: “These people are like the Cosa Nostra. They launch intergenerational
vendettas and will go after your family.”

According to Hine, John Rohrer is no longer allowed online. He had
previously set up websites with his music and poetry but the public
awareness of his situation had launched protests among his readers and as a
result, he is now barred by the hospital from going onto the internet.

Recent articles have discussed the increasing incidence of suspension and
disciplinary actions taken against attorneys who are attempting to protect
the rights of individuals
<http://journal-neo.org/2014/03/28/us-moves-to-crush-internal-dissent/%20>. If
the current trend continues, we may see anyone standing up for the rights
of another individual escorted into jail and, from there, potentially into
a rubber room.

*Janet C. Phelan, investigative journalist and human rights defender that
has traveled pretty extensively over the Asian region, an author of
a tell-all book EXILE
<http://www.thebookpatch.com/BookStore/exile/a02d07e3-82ae-4dab-942b-bed32f224566?isbn=9781620309575>,
exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook
<http://journal-neo.org/>” <http://journal-neo.org/>.
<http://journal-neo.org/>
<http://journal-neo.org/2016/04/24/the-management-of-dissent-how-to-destroy-an-activist/>*
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From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr 25 02:42:55 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:42:55 +0000
Subject: Iceland recap - Revenge of the Vikings - Iceland Will Create Its
 Own Money
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ9vkA2+ZZAUmZncn8bczvTo4zM7LOnTuHUOAsNM2X0-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Those plucky Icelandics - let's wish them better luck than JFK and
others. Abundance is merely an engineering problem, and unfortunately
is opposed by hegemony of the few, so good luck to Iceland.

----
http://russia-insider.com/en/revenge-vikings-iceland-will-create-its-own-money/ri14036

Revenge of the Vikings - Iceland Will Create Its Own Money

Well, they were game enough to jail their bankers; let's see if
they'll get away with this
(Blacklisted News)

The banking elite won't like this one bit

Originally appeared at Blacklisted News
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Revenge_of_the_Vikings_%E2%80%94_Iceland_Will_Create_Its_Own_Money/50647/0/38/38/Y/M.html


Back in 1914, the Bradbury Pound (
http://www.ukcolumn.org/bring-back-the-bradbury ) was introduced by
the UK government as an ’emergency measure’ to bolster a failing
economy.

It was a huge success. The banking elite were unhappy, however and
panicked – before managing to wrestle control of the money supply
afterwards.

President John F. Kennedy also introduced a similar ‘Greenback’ in
1961, and again, the banking elite were very unhappy about being
pushed out, and losing control of the issuance of money as debt. JFK
did not survive past 1963.

Then there was Muammar al-Gaddafi in Libya who, in 2009 announced a
new gold-backed dinar, issued by Libya’s state-owned public central
bank ( http://21stcenturywire.com/2011/03/28/globalist-target-the-central-bank-of-libya-is-100-state-owned/
), and with further plans – negotiating with the other African nations
for the creation of an all-African currency to compete with the Euro
and the Dollar. Gaddafi did not survive past 2011.

Who knew that the revolution would start with those radical Icelanders?

One Frosti Sigurjonsson, a lawmaker from the ruling Progress Party,
issued a report that suggests taking the power to create money away
from commercial banks, and hand it to the central bank and,
ultimately, Parliament.

Can’t see commercial banks in the western world be too happy with
this. They must be contemplating wiping the island nation off the map.
If accepted in the Iceland parliament, the plan would change the game
in a very radical way.

It would be successful too, because there is no bigger scourge on our
economies than commercial banks creating money and then securitizing
and selling off the loans they just created the money (credit) with.

Everyone, with the possible exception of Paul Krugman, understands why
this is a very sound idea. Agence France Presse reports:

Iceland’s government is considering a revolutionary monetary proposal
– removing the power of commercial banks to create money and handing
it to the central bank.


The proposal, which would be a turnaround in the history of modern
finance, was part of a report written by a lawmaker from the ruling
centrist Progress Party, Frosti Sigurjonsson, entitled “A better
monetary system for Iceland”.

    “The findings will be an important contribution to the upcoming
discussion, here and elsewhere, on money creation and monetary
policy,” Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson said.

The report, commissioned by the premier, is aimed at putting an end to
a monetary system in place through a slew of financial crises,
including the latest one in 2008.

According to a study by four central bankers, the country has had
“over 20 instances of financial crises of different types” since 1875,
with “six serious multiple financial crisis episodes occurring every
15 years on average.”

Mr Sigurjonsson said the problem each time arose from ballooning
credit during a strong economic cycle.

He argued the central bank was unable to contain the credit boom,
allowing inflation to rise and sparking exaggerated risk-taking and
speculation, the threat of bank collapse and costly state
interventions.

In Iceland, as in other modern market economies, the central bank
controls the creation of banknotes and coins but not the creation of
all money, which occurs as soon as a commercial bank offers a line of
credit. The central bank can only try to influence the money supply
with its monetary policy tools.

Under the so-called Sovereign Money proposal, the country’s central
bank would become the only creator of money.

    “Crucially, the power to create money is kept separate from the
power to decide how that new money is used,” Mr Sigurjonsson wrote in
the proposal.

    “As with the state budget, the parliament will debate the
government’s proposal for allocation of new money,” he wrote.

Banks would continue to manage accounts and payments, and would serve
as intermediaries between savers and lenders.

Mr Sigurjonsson, a businessman and economist, was one of the
masterminds behind Iceland’s household debt relief programme launched
in May 2014 and aimed at helping the many Icelanders whose finances
were strangled by inflation-indexed mortgages signed before the 2008
financial crisis.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Apr 24 18:33:28 2016
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 11:33:28 +1000
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
Message-ID: <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>

On 2016-04-23 3:34 PM, John Newman wrote:
>
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/storms-bring-life-threatening-flooding-to-texas/
>> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/18/us/houston-texas-flooding/
>> At least 5 dead, hundreds rescued from high water in Houston flooding
>
> These horrific spring floods weren't common in the 90s when I was in Texas. Or maybe I was too stoned to notice.
>
> We got 30 inches of snow just outside DC in MD this winter, something that hasn't happened in... well, since before I came up here.
>
> Greenland permafrost is fucking melting. But I've only born witness to that indirectly.
>
> I think it's pretty obvious we are fucked here if we don't make some changes. Maybe this is fermi's great filter.

There are always unusual weather events of some form somewhere.

In the 1950s the North pole melted in summer.  Has not happened in 
recent times.

There are four thousand year old sand dunes on the shores of the arctic 
ocean, indicating that four thousand years ago the arctic regularly 
melted completely for a large part of the summer.

Similarly, the antarctic ice sheet is substantially larger than it was 
when the first explorers mapped it.

When people get excited about unusual melting of artic ice, they ignore 
unusual freezing of antarctic ice.

Cherry picking.

There have been colder years and colder decades before, and warmer years 
and warmer decades before.

There will be colder years and colder decades in future, and warmer 
years and warmer decades in future.

We are no where near as warm as things were during the height of the 
Roman Empire, and nowhere near as cold as things were during the little 
ice age.

Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of 
farmhouses.




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Apr 25 05:16:04 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:16:04 +0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> There have been colder years and colder decades before, and warmer years and
> warmer decades before.
>

Having in mind there have been ice period, certainly long ago it have
been much colder.

Is there easy to plot statistics say about for a century?

To my knowledge global warming is scientifically accepted fact.

It is debated to what extent humans caused it. AFAICT there is
regulation against GW.

IMHO it is the extrema that matter, not the average. This February here
a day was absolute temperature record of over 25 degrees celcius and in
the same month there were quite cold days.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 11:22:17 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:22:17 -0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:16:04 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> > There have been colder years and colder decades before, and warmer
> > years and warmer decades before.
> >
> 
> Having in mind there have been ice period, certainly long ago it have
> been much colder.
> 
> Is there easy to plot statistics say about for a century?
> 
> To my knowledge global warming is scientifically accepted fact.


	And you complain about 'sheeple'...? Not to mention 'global
	warming' propaganda has been rebranded to 'climate change'
	propaganda. Please stick to the correct scientific terminolo




> 
> It is debated to what extent humans caused it. AFAICT there is
> regulation against GW.
> 
> IMHO it is the extrema that matter, not the average. This February
> here a day was absolute temperature record of over 25 degrees celcius
> and in the same month there were quite cold days.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:27:35 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:27:35 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/16, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> Subject: Climate Change Has been going on since Earth began
> https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEPW_P7GVB8

That's natural, and doesnt matter, it's more powerful than us,
anyone who doesn't get that is a retard.

What matters is that anyone who doesn't get that
humans are fucking up their own evironment to their
detriment... is severely beyond retarded. And if it
takes lies and propaganda and regulation to stop
that now... in order to allow humans to reach natural
extinction lifetime above... then so be it.
Besides, the research and tech from it will be useful.

Gotta get off the rock.




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr 25 17:32:07 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:32:07 +0000
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/25/16, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:16:04 +0300
> Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
>> > There have been colder years and colder decades before, and warmer
>> > years and warmer decades before.
>>
>> Having in mind there have been ice period, certainly long ago it have
>> been much colder.
>>
>> Is there easy to plot statistics say about for a century?
>>
>> To my knowledge global warming is scientifically accepted fact.
>
> 	And you complain about 'sheeple'...? Not to mention 'global
> 	warming' propaganda has been rebranded to 'climate change'
> 	propaganda. Please stick to the correct scientific terminolo

Exactly. This one time, about 25 years ago, when the latest "global
warming" media scare started, something just got to me, irritated me,
so I started expressing my 'sincere' concern about global cooling each
time "global warming" was raised - e.g. "actually, they firetrucked
up, it's global cooling that's coming". This one time, someone got
really concerned asking "REALLY?!!" and got all worried about global
cooling as I had an internal chuckle whilst maintaining my austere
frown and nodding sagely.

Then this one time, it all changed to "climate change" and I knew we
contrarians were on to something.

Then this one time, a few years ago, a science major said to me words
which rang loud, "the most abundant times we've been able to ascertain
in the Earth's history are when the carbon dioxide levels were 6 times
what they are now, and so for life on this planet the only thing we
have to worry about in the next few million years is a new ice age".

But hey that's probably all bullshit since the TV tells us we're about
to die and the solution is carbon tax.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 22:09:02 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 01:09:02 -0400
Subject: Cryptography being defended on social media and YouTube. This is on
 the front page of reddit right now
In-Reply-To: <CACJmhGomevk76i4EM+8sN9Zj2jZd4mMfRR=YPyYdB3gwGYv9=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACJmhGoYZU_BLX+sYyMquzwXwWigDFJ7rfybs9VdVHAGijVL6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACJmhGo5aHUVCs3mTWeLrFW7_oW2EUOYF+5hSeHjuE0G2W2qUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACJmhGq_byY+Vt4X=mC9sUR=sczC0QN9qN6tE7dZYE1c6e=RFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACJmhGrRRDWovxdO7+azYb3k8XSbpWzD=mz4Q4JVTOrB0bpcsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACJmhGomevk76i4EM+8sN9Zj2jZd4mMfRR=YPyYdB3gwGYv9=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28nYxwqzBsCa-yfSTZ0_GtZm+a8OzwQ5sXBO1vXjQEjBA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/16, Erik Granger <erikgranger at gmail.com> wrote:
> CGPGrey - Should all locks have keys? Phones, Castles, Encryption, and You.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPBH1eW28mo
>
> I like this video for a few reasons, it explains why cryptography is
> important and why backdoors are bad in layman terms without actually going
> into how cryptography works. I'm happy to see a lot of discussion on
> cryptography taking place all over the internet, and that young people are
> very interested in the technology.

"...digital locks protect the contents of our minds..."




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 22:11:00 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:11:00 -0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571ef826.8231420a.4e0ff.ffff8ca9@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 00:27:35 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> What matters is that anyone who doesn't get that
> humans are fucking up their own evironment to their
> detriment... is severely beyond retarded.

	lololol

> And if it
> takes lies and propaganda and regulation to stop
> that now... i then so be it.

	hey grarpamp, pick up your mask, it just fell off. 


> Besides, the research and tech from it will be useful.
	
	again, lololol

	 
> Gotta get off the rock.

	thanks







From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 22:27:54 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:27:54 -0300
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>


>From "Timothy C. May" <tcmay at got.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:25:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"



A couple of people have sent me pinging messages, asking about my
status on the Cypherpunks list....apparently it has taken several weeks
for folks to notice my absence! :-}  This may speak volumes about why I
have left the list, and what the list has become.....

I chose not to write a "departing flame" (or message, but some might
call it a flame) when I unsubscribed several weeks ago--within an hour
of reading that John and Sandy had decided to make "their" list a
moderated list, by the way--as I saw little benefit. I was also fed up
with things, and saw no point in wasting even more of my time arguing
against the New Cypherpunks World Order, as the NCWO was clearly
presented as a fait accompli, not something ablut which opinions of
list members (or even list _founders_, at least not me) were being
sought. It's my nature to just say "Fuck it" and leave when I feel I
have overstayed my time, or things are no longer fun, or I am made to
feel unwelcome.

But since several people have pinged me, asking about my status, I'll
take some time to say a few things. I've had access to the hks.net
archive site, and/or the Singapore site, to occasionally see what was
being said on the list (old habits die slowly, so I sometimes drop in
to see what you people are flaming each other about...not
surprisingly--in fact utterly predictably--I see vast amounts of
bandwidth consumed by arguments about moderation, about the putative
biases of the Moderator and Director of the New Cypherpunks World
Order, about alternative moderation strategies (which is stupid, as
John and Sandy announced what they were going to do, not just some of
their preliminary thoughts), and so on. I've also noticed fewer
substantive essays. With no false modesty I tried awfully hard to
compose substantive essays on crypto-political topics, often more than
one per day. (Others did too, but they seem to be tapering off as well,
leaving the list to be dominated by something called a "Toto," the
"O.J. was framed!" ravings of Dale Thorn, the love letters between
Vulis and someone name Nurdane Oksas, and the occasional bit of crypto
news. Ho hum. I'm glad I'm not reading the list in e-mail, and thus can
easily avoid replying to these inanities...which would probably not be
approved for reading by Sandy, so why bother anyway?)


Rather than compose a traditional essay, I'll take the  easy way out and
list some bulleted points.

* First, I don't argue that John Gilmore is unfree to do as he wishes
  with his machine, toad, which has been the major machine host for the
Cypherpunks list. John can tell us we have to write in Pig Latin if he
wishes. Much of the debate I saw in the archives was debate that missed
  the point about what John could and couldn't do. No one can seriously
  question the right of the owner of a machine, or the owner of a
  restaurant, etc., to set the policies he wishes. The owner of a
  restaurant is perfectly free--or used to be, and still is to anyone
  with even slightly libertarian or freedom tendencies--to set the
  rules of his "house." He may insist that shirts and shoes be worn, or
  that smoking is not allowed (or even is required, in theory), etc. He
  may say "All those eating in my restaurant must wear funny hats and
  have their costumes approved by Sandy Sandfort." This is
  unexceptionable.

* However, anyone who disputes these rules (disputes in the sense of
disliking or disagreeing with them, not legally challenging them) is
  free to leave. Those who don't like crowded, noisy, smoke-filled
  sports bars are encourgaged to leave. And so on. Again,
  unexceptionable.

(The more complicated case of contracts, verbal or written, and
"changing the rules," does not apply here. No one had a contract with
John, or Sandy, or Hugh, etc., so this is not germane.)

* But the really important issue is this: is the _physical hosting_ of
  the Cypherpunks mailing list coterminous with the "Cypherpunks"? If
  the list was hosted by, say, UC Berkeley or PGP Incorporated, would
  we consider these hosts to be the "owners" of the Cypherpunks group?
  Would we think that a corporate host, say, would have the authority
  to direct what we could say on the list? (Again, not disputing their
  corporate property rights...as a libertarian, I cannot. Other issues
  are what I'm getting at.)

* If a Boy Scout troop meets at a local church, and has for several
  years, continuously, would we consider the church to be the owner of
  the troop? Could the church insist on avoidance of certain "cuss
  words" and demand that prayers be said before each gathering?
  Certainly the church could tell the troop what policies were to be
  followed if the the facilities were to be used, etc., and the troop
  could leave if it didn't like the terms (or, in parallel with my
  situation, any troop member could choose to leave....). This is what
  we mean by "property rights": the legal right of a property owner to
  do with his property as he wishes, modulo prior contractual
  relationships, criminal laws, etc.

* How did the mailing list for the group, now called Cypherpunks, get
started, and how did it end up being run off of John's hardare? Hugh
  Daniel got the actual mailing list rolling, based on a discussion
  Eric Hughes, Hugh, and I had the day after the first physical
  meeting, in September 1992. We thought the group we had just spent
  the day with ought to be able to stay in touch, and that a mailing
  list was the right way to go. There was talk of siting it on the UC
  Berkeley computers (actually, the Undergraduate Association
  computers, a la the Cypherpunks archive site at "csua"), but Hugh
  thought he might be able to use "toad," and this is what happened. (I
  have not heard from Hugh on his views of this New and Moderated
  Non-Anarchic List.)

* I think we should all be very grateful to John for agreeing to let it
  run on his hardware, but not let our gratitude turn into some sort of
subservience and blather about how John "owns" the Cypherpunks group.

* Again, is the "Cyherpunks community" the same as the mailing list?
  And is the mailing list, hosted at toad, the "property" of John
  Gilmore?

* In my view, neither John nor Sandy in any sense "own" our group. It
  is a virtual community which sometimes has physical meetings at
  various places (including corporations, restaurants, and bookstores,
  none of which are even partial "owners" of the group) and which has
  had several instantiations on the Net, including sub-lists not
  connected to toad.com in any way. While John is of course free at any
  time to suspend his hosting of the list, I think it a serious
  misapprehension of the basic nature of virtual communities to accept
  the claim that John should decide on what is appropriate to bear the
  "Cypherpunks" list imprimatur and what is to be consigned to the
  flame list.

* The mechanics of the announcement troubled me greatly. To be blunt, I
  was seething with anger. I was mightily annoyed to read that John had
  made a decision to appoint Sandy as his Moderator, with no discussion
  on the list. I don't know if Eric Hughes and Hugh Daniel were asked
  their opinions, but I certainly know I was not. I feel that as one of
  the two or three founders, depending on how one is counting, and as a
  frequent contributor to the list since its inception, and so on, I
  (and others) should at least have been told of this plan. Better yet,
  have the plans discussed on the list, as some good ideas may have
  been generated.

I'll have more to say about my problems with how things were handled.
Frankly, it smacked of the same kind of fait accompli decision John made
with the unsubscribing of Vulis. While John had (and has) every legal
right to do with his property as he wished, the effect was very
negative. First, Vulis found other ways to post (duh). Second, the list
was consumed with flames about this, many from Vulis, and many from
others. Third, journalists (who love sizzle over substance any day of
the week) lept into the fray with articles which gave Vulis the
publicity he craved. Fourth, it sent a message to enemies of liberty
that "Even the Cypherpunks have found it necessary to abandon their
anarchic ways."

(I'm well aware of the issues with pests like Vulis, who seek to destroy
virtual communities like ours. But the solution John used did not work,
and generated more crap. As you all should know, it was John himself
who coined the wonderful saying, "The Net interprets censorship as
damage and routes around it." A delicious irony.)

* In the archives, I did see a bunch of "I support Sandy" and "John is
  our leader" comments from reasonable people. The obvious noise of
  Vulis and his cohorts like Aga made a "Do something!" attitude
  somewhat understandable. I don't think the decision made was a wise
  one, and I strongly doubt it will work to make the list a better one.

* The proper solution to bad speech is more speech, not censorship.
Censorship just makes opponents of "speech anarchy" happy--it affirms
  their basic belief that censors are needed.

* "Censorship" is another overloaded term. I don't think the
  "Definition 1" of dictionary definitions, about _governmental_
  restrictions, is the only meaningful definition. Everybody knows what
  it meant when we say that "Lockheed is censoring the views of
  employees," even though we know Lockheed is not using government
  power. A censor is one who censors. And even my "American Heritage
  Dictionary" gives this as its "definition 1":

"censor n. 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other
material and to remove or suppress morally, politically, or otherwise
objectionable."

(Other dictionaries of course give similar definitions. The notion that
censors are confined to being government employees is a misconception.)

* OK, even given that John had decided to censor "his" list, what about
  his choice of Sandy Sandfort as the censor? I've known Sandy for
  several years (I was the one who invited him to the second
  Cypherpunks meeting), but he's a poor choice as a censor, moderator,
  whatever. First, because he has so often gotten involved in
  protracted flame wars, such as with Vulis (remember the dozens of
  messages about the "bet" to bring Vulis out? I stayed out of the
  charade completely.), with Hallam-Baker, and with others. Second,
  because he has not been actively composing essays for a while,
  perhaps because of his job with Community Connexion. Other reasons,
  too.

(I count Sandy as a friend, but I'm just being honest here. Sandy is
just not a "Peter Neumann" (moderator of the "RISKS" list).

* Nor do the announced criteria make any sense. While the inane one-line
scatological insults have been filtered out, many "flames" make it
  through, based on what I've seen in perusing the hks archive site.
  And some reasonable comments get dumped in the flame bucket.

* As expected, those who only want to talk about cryptography (but who
rarely do, themselves, also as expected) waste bandwidth saying the
"anarchist" and "libertarian" stuff ought to go in to the "rejected"
  list. More bandwidth wasted, as each group lobbies to have its
  ideological opponents censored by Sandy.

* I would have had no problem had John announced that he was creating a
  new list, the "Good Stuff" list, with Sandy has his Chooser of Good
  Stuff. After all, both Eric Blossom and Ray Arachelian already offer
  just such lists, and more would not hurt.

But by making the _main list_ the censored one, this skewed things
considerably.

* (Frankly, one of my considerations in leaving was the feeling that I
would never know if an essay I'd spent hours composing would be
  rejected by Sandy for whatever reasons....maybe he might think my
  essay was off-topic, or used one of the Seven Deadly Words, or was
  "too flamish." Whatever. I realized that life is too short to have
  Sandy Sandfort deciding whether my essays should go out to the main
  list (which is really just a list like Eric Blossom's best-of list,
  except it is be edict now the main list) or be dumped into the flames
  list, to be read by a handful of people.)

* Why, many reasonable people may ask, did I not simply unsubscribe from
the "Cypherpunks" list and subscribe to the "Cypherpunks-Unedited) (or
whatever it is called) list? Because of my overall anger with the issues
raised above. The imperiousness of the decision, the notion of favoring
Sandy's tastes in a more "first class" way than, say, the tastes of Eric
Blossom, Ray Arachelian, or, for that matter, me.  "Some censors are
  more equal than others."

* The decision to "moderate" (censor) the Cypherpunks list is powerful
ammunition to give to our opponents, and Vulis is certainly gleeful that
his fondest wishes have been realized. And it won't work. People are
consuming even more bandwidth arguing the merits of John's decision, the
traffic is presumably being slowed down by the need for Sandy to wade
through the traffic and stamp "Approved" or "Rejected" on what he
  glances at, and people are "testing the limits" of what they can say
  and what they can't say.

* It also sends a message that people are incapable of filtering out bad
speech, that they need a censor to do it for them. (Again, I have no
problem with competing "screeners," a la having Ray, Eric, or David
Sternlight filtering what they think is OK and what is not. Let a
  thousand filtering services bloom.) But the clear message by having
  Sandy censor the main list (the default list, the list name with the
  main name, the list we all know about, etc.) is that Cypherpunks need
  Big Brother to shelter them from Bad Thoughts, from Naughty Words,
  from Evil Flames, and from Impure Desires. Foo on that.

* Psychologists might point to random reinforcement, even to the
  effects of terror. How many of us are likely to write controversial
  posts knowing that Sandy might wake up having a "bad hair day" and
  thus reject our posts? How many will begin to skew their opinions to
  match those of Sandy? (I would venture a guess that a Duncan Frissell
  would almost certainly get a libertarian rant past Sandy while a
  Phill Hallam-Baker might easily fail to get a leftist rant past him.)

* Those who want "less noise" should subcontract with the filter
  services of their own choosing. This is the "Cypherpunk Way." Having
  Sandy as the censor is the easy way out.

* By the way, the moderated list "RISKS"  works pretty well. But it is
  not a _discussion_ group. It is, rather, a digest of news items
  related to computer and technology risks, with some discussion by
  various contributors, and with a long turnaround time of a few issues
  per week, tops. Peter Neumann also devotes a lot of time to making it
  run smoothly and bases part of his professional career on running it.
  I surmise that Sandy is not prepared to do the same. Nor would this
  be a good idea, as this would kill the spirit of the debate.

* Had there been a debate about the policy, I can think of several
approaches I'd like better. But inasmuch as John made it clear that
  there would be no debate (and, perhaps as part of the "problem," John
  has not really been a active member of the mailing list, in terms of
  participating in the debates), this is all moot.

In any case, my several years with the list have taken a huge amount of
my time. Given the way this whole thing was handled, and the way the
list is degenerating even further, it looks like it's good that I'm
moving on to other things.


* To summarize:

- the decision to censor the list was made without any discussion on the
list, without any discussion with at least some of the longterm core
contributors, and was presented as a "fait accompli."

- while John has every right to do with his hardware as he wishes, he
  does not "own" the Cypherpunks group (though whether he owns the
  "list" is a semantically debatable point)

- whatever our group once was, or still is, is not dependent on having a
particular mailing list running on someone's home machine...and it
  cannot be claimed that any person "owns" the Cypherpunks group.

- there is some talk of creating another Cypherpunks list, on other
machines; I don't know whether or not this will fly, or if I'll devote
  any time to such lists.

- the effect of censorship, such as I have seen it so far, is not
  producing a better list. In fact, as I would have expected, it is
  producing a more boring and sheltered list.


And so there you have it.

I had no plans to set down my views, feeling it was a waste of my time
and your time. Rather than foam and rant the way some did (and Vulis
must have posted 100 messages on the subject), I chose to simply make
my exit, quickly.

But as I have recently seen several mentions of my absence (including a
particularly complimentary comment from Asgaard--thanks), I do feel I
owe it to you all to explain my views.

Which I have done. Have a nice year, and a nice millenium in a couple
of years.


--Tim May




Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't
allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital
money, tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital
pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations,
information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets,
collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on
the information superhighway."












From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Apr 25 19:47:22 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 02:47:22 +0000
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>

Someone just sent me this, very on topic.

Enjoy :)

---
Subject: Climate Change Has been going on since Earth began

We have had 6 major Ice Ages and Warm Periods. Understand we have only
monitored temperatures since 1850, past the time we have to rely on
ice core samples that also hold air samples telling us the CO2
content.
There are 1,500 land volcanoes spewing out CO2.
There are 3.74 million undersea volcanoes spewing out CO2, sulphurs and acids.
Under the ocean there are pools of liquid CO2

A Must See--even for the ignorant.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iEPW_P7GVB8
~15MiB




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Apr 26 05:56:12 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:56:12 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Great repost. May is unique. And well armed and bunkered, physically,
philosophically, politically.

At 01:27 AM 4/26/2016, you wrote:

> From "Timothy C. May" <tcmay at got.net>
>Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:25:50 -0800 (PST)
>To: cypherpunks at toad.com
>Subject: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
>
>
>
>A couple of people have sent me pinging messages, asking about my
>status on the Cypherpunks list....apparently it has taken several weeks
>for folks to notice my absence! :-}  This may speak volumes about why I
>have left the list, and what the list has become.....
>
>I chose not to write a "departing flame" (or message, but some might
>call it a flame) when I unsubscribed several weeks ago--within an hour
>of reading that John and Sandy had decided to make "their" list a
>moderated list, by the way--as I saw little benefit. I was also fed up
>with things, and saw no point in wasting even more of my time arguing
>against the New Cypherpunks World Order, as the NCWO was clearly
>presented as a fait accompli, not something ablut which opinions of
>list members (or even list _founders_, at least not me) were being
>sought. It's my nature to just say "Fuck it" and leave when I feel I
>have overstayed my time, or things are no longer fun, or I am made to
>feel unwelcome.
>
>But since several people have pinged me, asking about my status, I'll
>take some time to say a few things. I've had access to the hks.net
>archive site, and/or the Singapore site, to occasionally see what was
>being said on the list (old habits die slowly, so I sometimes drop in
>to see what you people are flaming each other about...not
>surprisingly--in fact utterly predictably--I see vast amounts of
>bandwidth consumed by arguments about moderation, about the putative
>biases of the Moderator and Director of the New Cypherpunks World
>Order, about alternative moderation strategies (which is stupid, as
>John and Sandy announced what they were going to do, not just some of
>their preliminary thoughts), and so on. I've also noticed fewer
>substantive essays. With no false modesty I tried awfully hard to
>compose substantive essays on crypto-political topics, often more than
>one per day. (Others did too, but they seem to be tapering off as well,
>leaving the list to be dominated by something called a "Toto," the
>"O.J. was framed!" ravings of Dale Thorn, the love letters between
>Vulis and someone name Nurdane Oksas, and the occasional bit of crypto
>news. Ho hum. I'm glad I'm not reading the list in e-mail, and thus can
>easily avoid replying to these inanities...which would probably not be
>approved for reading by Sandy, so why bother anyway?)
>
>
>Rather than compose a traditional essay, I'll take the  easy way out and
>list some bulleted points.
>
>* First, I don't argue that John Gilmore is unfree to do as he wishes
>   with his machine, toad, which has been the major machine host for the
>Cypherpunks list. John can tell us we have to write in Pig Latin if he
>wishes. Much of the debate I saw in the archives was debate that missed
>   the point about what John could and couldn't do. No one can seriously
>   question the right of the owner of a machine, or the owner of a
>   restaurant, etc., to set the policies he wishes. The owner of a
>   restaurant is perfectly free--or used to be, and still is to anyone
>   with even slightly libertarian or freedom tendencies--to set the
>   rules of his "house." He may insist that shirts and shoes be worn, or
>   that smoking is not allowed (or even is required, in theory), etc. He
>   may say "All those eating in my restaurant must wear funny hats and
>   have their costumes approved by Sandy Sandfort." This is
>   unexceptionable.
>
>* However, anyone who disputes these rules (disputes in the sense of
>disliking or disagreeing with them, not legally challenging them) is
>   free to leave. Those who don't like crowded, noisy, smoke-filled
>   sports bars are encourgaged to leave. And so on. Again,
>   unexceptionable.
>
>(The more complicated case of contracts, verbal or written, and
>"changing the rules," does not apply here. No one had a contract with
>John, or Sandy, or Hugh, etc., so this is not germane.)
>
>* But the really important issue is this: is the _physical hosting_ of
>   the Cypherpunks mailing list coterminous with the "Cypherpunks"? If
>   the list was hosted by, say, UC Berkeley or PGP Incorporated, would
>   we consider these hosts to be the "owners" of the Cypherpunks group?
>   Would we think that a corporate host, say, would have the authority
>   to direct what we could say on the list? (Again, not disputing their
>   corporate property rights...as a libertarian, I cannot. Other issues
>   are what I'm getting at.)
>
>* If a Boy Scout troop meets at a local church, and has for several
>   years, continuously, would we consider the church to be the owner of
>   the troop? Could the church insist on avoidance of certain "cuss
>   words" and demand that prayers be said before each gathering?
>   Certainly the church could tell the troop what policies were to be
>   followed if the the facilities were to be used, etc., and the troop
>   could leave if it didn't like the terms (or, in parallel with my
>   situation, any troop member could choose to leave....). This is what
>   we mean by "property rights": the legal right of a property owner to
>   do with his property as he wishes, modulo prior contractual
>   relationships, criminal laws, etc.
>
>* How did the mailing list for the group, now called Cypherpunks, get
>started, and how did it end up being run off of John's hardare? Hugh
>   Daniel got the actual mailing list rolling, based on a discussion
>   Eric Hughes, Hugh, and I had the day after the first physical
>   meeting, in September 1992. We thought the group we had just spent
>   the day with ought to be able to stay in touch, and that a mailing
>   list was the right way to go. There was talk of siting it on the UC
>   Berkeley computers (actually, the Undergraduate Association
>   computers, a la the Cypherpunks archive site at "csua"), but Hugh
>   thought he might be able to use "toad," and this is what happened. (I
>   have not heard from Hugh on his views of this New and Moderated
>   Non-Anarchic List.)
>
>* I think we should all be very grateful to John for agreeing to let it
>   run on his hardware, but not let our gratitude turn into some sort of
>subservience and blather about how John "owns" the Cypherpunks group.
>
>* Again, is the "Cyherpunks community" the same as the mailing list?
>   And is the mailing list, hosted at toad, the "property" of John
>   Gilmore?
>
>* In my view, neither John nor Sandy in any sense "own" our group. It
>   is a virtual community which sometimes has physical meetings at
>   various places (including corporations, restaurants, and bookstores,
>   none of which are even partial "owners" of the group) and which has
>   had several instantiations on the Net, including sub-lists not
>   connected to toad.com in any way. While John is of course free at any
>   time to suspend his hosting of the list, I think it a serious
>   misapprehension of the basic nature of virtual communities to accept
>   the claim that John should decide on what is appropriate to bear the
>   "Cypherpunks" list imprimatur and what is to be consigned to the
>   flame list.
>
>* The mechanics of the announcement troubled me greatly. To be blunt, I
>   was seething with anger. I was mightily annoyed to read that John had
>   made a decision to appoint Sandy as his Moderator, with no discussion
>   on the list. I don't know if Eric Hughes and Hugh Daniel were asked
>   their opinions, but I certainly know I was not. I feel that as one of
>   the two or three founders, depending on how one is counting, and as a
>   frequent contributor to the list since its inception, and so on, I
>   (and others) should at least have been told of this plan. Better yet,
>   have the plans discussed on the list, as some good ideas may have
>   been generated.
>
>I'll have more to say about my problems with how things were handled.
>Frankly, it smacked of the same kind of fait accompli decision John made
>with the unsubscribing of Vulis. While John had (and has) every legal
>right to do with his property as he wished, the effect was very
>negative. First, Vulis found other ways to post (duh). Second, the list
>was consumed with flames about this, many from Vulis, and many from
>others. Third, journalists (who love sizzle over substance any day of
>the week) lept into the fray with articles which gave Vulis the
>publicity he craved. Fourth, it sent a message to enemies of liberty
>that "Even the Cypherpunks have found it necessary to abandon their
>anarchic ways."
>
>(I'm well aware of the issues with pests like Vulis, who seek to destroy
>virtual communities like ours. But the solution John used did not work,
>and generated more crap. As you all should know, it was John himself
>who coined the wonderful saying, "The Net interprets censorship as
>damage and routes around it." A delicious irony.)
>
>* In the archives, I did see a bunch of "I support Sandy" and "John is
>   our leader" comments from reasonable people. The obvious noise of
>   Vulis and his cohorts like Aga made a "Do something!" attitude
>   somewhat understandable. I don't think the decision made was a wise
>   one, and I strongly doubt it will work to make the list a better one.
>
>* The proper solution to bad speech is more speech, not censorship.
>Censorship just makes opponents of "speech anarchy" happy--it affirms
>   their basic belief that censors are needed.
>
>* "Censorship" is another overloaded term. I don't think the
>   "Definition 1" of dictionary definitions, about _governmental_
>   restrictions, is the only meaningful definition. Everybody knows what
>   it meant when we say that "Lockheed is censoring the views of
>   employees," even though we know Lockheed is not using government
>   power. A censor is one who censors. And even my "American Heritage
>   Dictionary" gives this as its "definition 1":
>
>"censor n. 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other
>material and to remove or suppress morally, politically, or otherwise
>objectionable."
>
>(Other dictionaries of course give similar definitions. The notion that
>censors are confined to being government employees is a misconception.)
>
>* OK, even given that John had decided to censor "his" list, what about
>   his choice of Sandy Sandfort as the censor? I've known Sandy for
>   several years (I was the one who invited him to the second
>   Cypherpunks meeting), but he's a poor choice as a censor, moderator,
>   whatever. First, because he has so often gotten involved in
>   protracted flame wars, such as with Vulis (remember the dozens of
>   messages about the "bet" to bring Vulis out? I stayed out of the
>   charade completely.), with Hallam-Baker, and with others. Second,
>   because he has not been actively composing essays for a while,
>   perhaps because of his job with Community Connexion. Other reasons,
>   too.
>
>(I count Sandy as a friend, but I'm just being honest here. Sandy is
>just not a "Peter Neumann" (moderator of the "RISKS" list).
>
>* Nor do the announced criteria make any sense. While the inane one-line
>scatological insults have been filtered out, many "flames" make it
>   through, based on what I've seen in perusing the hks archive site.
>   And some reasonable comments get dumped in the flame bucket.
>
>* As expected, those who only want to talk about cryptography (but who
>rarely do, themselves, also as expected) waste bandwidth saying the
>"anarchist" and "libertarian" stuff ought to go in to the "rejected"
>   list. More bandwidth wasted, as each group lobbies to have its
>   ideological opponents censored by Sandy.
>
>* I would have had no problem had John announced that he was creating a
>   new list, the "Good Stuff" list, with Sandy has his Chooser of Good
>   Stuff. After all, both Eric Blossom and Ray Arachelian already offer
>   just such lists, and more would not hurt.
>
>But by making the _main list_ the censored one, this skewed things
>considerably.
>
>* (Frankly, one of my considerations in leaving was the feeling that I
>would never know if an essay I'd spent hours composing would be
>   rejected by Sandy for whatever reasons....maybe he might think my
>   essay was off-topic, or used one of the Seven Deadly Words, or was
>   "too flamish." Whatever. I realized that life is too short to have
>   Sandy Sandfort deciding whether my essays should go out to the main
>   list (which is really just a list like Eric Blossom's best-of list,
>   except it is be edict now the main list) or be dumped into the flames
>   list, to be read by a handful of people.)
>
>* Why, many reasonable people may ask, did I not simply unsubscribe from
>the "Cypherpunks" list and subscribe to the "Cypherpunks-Unedited) (or
>whatever it is called) list? Because of my overall anger with the issues
>raised above. The imperiousness of the decision, the notion of favoring
>Sandy's tastes in a more "first class" way than, say, the tastes of Eric
>Blossom, Ray Arachelian, or, for that matter, me.  "Some censors are
>   more equal than others."
>
>* The decision to "moderate" (censor) the Cypherpunks list is powerful
>ammunition to give to our opponents, and Vulis is certainly gleeful that
>his fondest wishes have been realized. And it won't work. People are
>consuming even more bandwidth arguing the merits of John's decision, the
>traffic is presumably being slowed down by the need for Sandy to wade
>through the traffic and stamp "Approved" or "Rejected" on what he
>   glances at, and people are "testing the limits" of what they can say
>   and what they can't say.
>
>* It also sends a message that people are incapable of filtering out bad
>speech, that they need a censor to do it for them. (Again, I have no
>problem with competing "screeners," a la having Ray, Eric, or David
>Sternlight filtering what they think is OK and what is not. Let a
>   thousand filtering services bloom.) But the clear message by having
>   Sandy censor the main list (the default list, the list name with the
>   main name, the list we all know about, etc.) is that Cypherpunks need
>   Big Brother to shelter them from Bad Thoughts, from Naughty Words,
>   from Evil Flames, and from Impure Desires. Foo on that.
>
>* Psychologists might point to random reinforcement, even to the
>   effects of terror. How many of us are likely to write controversial
>   posts knowing that Sandy might wake up having a "bad hair day" and
>   thus reject our posts? How many will begin to skew their opinions to
>   match those of Sandy? (I would venture a guess that a Duncan Frissell
>   would almost certainly get a libertarian rant past Sandy while a
>   Phill Hallam-Baker might easily fail to get a leftist rant past him.)
>
>* Those who want "less noise" should subcontract with the filter
>   services of their own choosing. This is the "Cypherpunk Way." Having
>   Sandy as the censor is the easy way out.
>
>* By the way, the moderated list "RISKS"  works pretty well. But it is
>   not a _discussion_ group. It is, rather, a digest of news items
>   related to computer and technology risks, with some discussion by
>   various contributors, and with a long turnaround time of a few issues
>   per week, tops. Peter Neumann also devotes a lot of time to making it
>   run smoothly and bases part of his professional career on running it.
>   I surmise that Sandy is not prepared to do the same. Nor would this
>   be a good idea, as this would kill the spirit of the debate.
>
>* Had there been a debate about the policy, I can think of several
>approaches I'd like better. But inasmuch as John made it clear that
>   there would be no debate (and, perhaps as part of the "problem," John
>   has not really been a active member of the mailing list, in terms of
>   participating in the debates), this is all moot.
>
>In any case, my several years with the list have taken a huge amount of
>my time. Given the way this whole thing was handled, and the way the
>list is degenerating even further, it looks like it's good that I'm
>moving on to other things.
>
>
>* To summarize:
>
>- the decision to censor the list was made without any discussion on the
>list, without any discussion with at least some of the longterm core
>contributors, and was presented as a "fait accompli."
>
>- while John has every right to do with his hardware as he wishes, he
>   does not "own" the Cypherpunks group (though whether he owns the
>   "list" is a semantically debatable point)
>
>- whatever our group once was, or still is, is not dependent on having a
>particular mailing list running on someone's home machine...and it
>   cannot be claimed that any person "owns" the Cypherpunks group.
>
>- there is some talk of creating another Cypherpunks list, on other
>machines; I don't know whether or not this will fly, or if I'll devote
>   any time to such lists.
>
>- the effect of censorship, such as I have seen it so far, is not
>   producing a better list. In fact, as I would have expected, it is
>   producing a more boring and sheltered list.
>
>
>And so there you have it.
>
>I had no plans to set down my views, feeling it was a waste of my time
>and your time. Rather than foam and rant the way some did (and Vulis
>must have posted 100 messages on the subject), I chose to simply make
>my exit, quickly.
>
>But as I have recently seen several mentions of my absence (including a
>particularly complimentary comment from Asgaard--thanks), I do feel I
>owe it to you all to explain my views.
>
>Which I have done. Have a nice year, and a nice millenium in a couple
>of years.
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>
>
>
>Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
>We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't
>allowed.
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital
>money, tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital
>pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations,
>information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets,
>collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on
>the information superhighway."





From rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 26 10:01:05 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 10:01:05 -0700
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>



On 04/26/2016 05:56 AM, John Young wrote:
> Great repost. May is unique. And well armed and bunkered, physically,
> philosophically, politically.
>

Corralitos is a good place to 'bunker down' at. He still lives up there
last I knew (2015)

http://santacruzupdate.com/2015/05/06/how-do-you-maintain-a-balance-between-being-informed-and-staying-sane/

> At 01:27 AM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
>
>> From "Timothy C. May" <tcmay at got.net>
>> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:25:50 -0800 (PST)
>> To: cypherpunks at toad.com
>> Subject: My Departure, Moderation, and "Ownership of the List"
>>
>>
>>
>> A couple of people have sent me pinging messages, asking about my
>> status on the Cypherpunks list....apparently it has taken several weeks
>> for folks to notice my absence! :-}  This may speak volumes about why I
>> have left the list, and what the list has become.....
>>
>> I chose not to write a "departing flame" (or message, but some might
>> call it a flame) when I unsubscribed several weeks ago--within an hour
>> of reading that John and Sandy had decided to make "their" list a
>> moderated list, by the way--as I saw little benefit. I was also fed up
>> with things, and saw no point in wasting even more of my time arguing
>> against the New Cypherpunks World Order, as the NCWO was clearly
>> presented as a fait accompli, not something ablut which opinions of
>> list members (or even list _founders_, at least not me) were being
>> sought. It's my nature to just say "Fuck it" and leave when I feel I
>> have overstayed my time, or things are no longer fun, or I am made to
>> feel unwelcome.
>>
>> But since several people have pinged me, asking about my status, I'll
>> take some time to say a few things. I've had access to the hks.net
>> archive site, and/or the Singapore site, to occasionally see what was
>> being said on the list (old habits die slowly, so I sometimes drop in
>> to see what you people are flaming each other about...not
>> surprisingly--in fact utterly predictably--I see vast amounts of
>> bandwidth consumed by arguments about moderation, about the putative
>> biases of the Moderator and Director of the New Cypherpunks World
>> Order, about alternative moderation strategies (which is stupid, as
>> John and Sandy announced what they were going to do, not just some of
>> their preliminary thoughts), and so on. I've also noticed fewer
>> substantive essays. With no false modesty I tried awfully hard to
>> compose substantive essays on crypto-political topics, often more than
>> one per day. (Others did too, but they seem to be tapering off as well,
>> leaving the list to be dominated by something called a "Toto," the
>> "O.J. was framed!" ravings of Dale Thorn, the love letters between
>> Vulis and someone name Nurdane Oksas, and the occasional bit of crypto
>> news. Ho hum. I'm glad I'm not reading the list in e-mail, and thus can
>> easily avoid replying to these inanities...which would probably not be
>> approved for reading by Sandy, so why bother anyway?)
>>
>>
>> Rather than compose a traditional essay, I'll take the  easy way out and
>> list some bulleted points.
>>
>> * First, I don't argue that John Gilmore is unfree to do as he wishes
>>   with his machine, toad, which has been the major machine host for the
>> Cypherpunks list. John can tell us we have to write in Pig Latin if he
>> wishes. Much of the debate I saw in the archives was debate that missed
>>   the point about what John could and couldn't do. No one can seriously
>>   question the right of the owner of a machine, or the owner of a
>>   restaurant, etc., to set the policies he wishes. The owner of a
>>   restaurant is perfectly free--or used to be, and still is to anyone
>>   with even slightly libertarian or freedom tendencies--to set the
>>   rules of his "house." He may insist that shirts and shoes be worn, or
>>   that smoking is not allowed (or even is required, in theory), etc. He
>>   may say "All those eating in my restaurant must wear funny hats and
>>   have their costumes approved by Sandy Sandfort." This is
>>   unexceptionable.
>>
>> * However, anyone who disputes these rules (disputes in the sense of
>> disliking or disagreeing with them, not legally challenging them) is
>>   free to leave. Those who don't like crowded, noisy, smoke-filled
>>   sports bars are encourgaged to leave. And so on. Again,
>>   unexceptionable.
>>
>> (The more complicated case of contracts, verbal or written, and
>> "changing the rules," does not apply here. No one had a contract with
>> John, or Sandy, or Hugh, etc., so this is not germane.)
>>
>> * But the really important issue is this: is the _physical hosting_ of
>>   the Cypherpunks mailing list coterminous with the "Cypherpunks"? If
>>   the list was hosted by, say, UC Berkeley or PGP Incorporated, would
>>   we consider these hosts to be the "owners" of the Cypherpunks group?
>>   Would we think that a corporate host, say, would have the authority
>>   to direct what we could say on the list? (Again, not disputing their
>>   corporate property rights...as a libertarian, I cannot. Other issues
>>   are what I'm getting at.)
>>
>> * If a Boy Scout troop meets at a local church, and has for several
>>   years, continuously, would we consider the church to be the owner of
>>   the troop? Could the church insist on avoidance of certain "cuss
>>   words" and demand that prayers be said before each gathering?
>>   Certainly the church could tell the troop what policies were to be
>>   followed if the the facilities were to be used, etc., and the troop
>>   could leave if it didn't like the terms (or, in parallel with my
>>   situation, any troop member could choose to leave....). This is what
>>   we mean by "property rights": the legal right of a property owner to
>>   do with his property as he wishes, modulo prior contractual
>>   relationships, criminal laws, etc.
>>
>> * How did the mailing list for the group, now called Cypherpunks, get
>> started, and how did it end up being run off of John's hardare? Hugh
>>   Daniel got the actual mailing list rolling, based on a discussion
>>   Eric Hughes, Hugh, and I had the day after the first physical
>>   meeting, in September 1992. We thought the group we had just spent
>>   the day with ought to be able to stay in touch, and that a mailing
>>   list was the right way to go. There was talk of siting it on the UC
>>   Berkeley computers (actually, the Undergraduate Association
>>   computers, a la the Cypherpunks archive site at "csua"), but Hugh
>>   thought he might be able to use "toad," and this is what happened. (I
>>   have not heard from Hugh on his views of this New and Moderated
>>   Non-Anarchic List.)
>>
>> * I think we should all be very grateful to John for agreeing to let it
>>   run on his hardware, but not let our gratitude turn into some sort of
>> subservience and blather about how John "owns" the Cypherpunks group.
>>
>> * Again, is the "Cyherpunks community" the same as the mailing list?
>>   And is the mailing list, hosted at toad, the "property" of John
>>   Gilmore?
>>
>> * In my view, neither John nor Sandy in any sense "own" our group. It
>>   is a virtual community which sometimes has physical meetings at
>>   various places (including corporations, restaurants, and bookstores,
>>   none of which are even partial "owners" of the group) and which has
>>   had several instantiations on the Net, including sub-lists not
>>   connected to toad.com in any way. While John is of course free at any
>>   time to suspend his hosting of the list, I think it a serious
>>   misapprehension of the basic nature of virtual communities to accept
>>   the claim that John should decide on what is appropriate to bear the
>>   "Cypherpunks" list imprimatur and what is to be consigned to the
>>   flame list.
>>
>> * The mechanics of the announcement troubled me greatly. To be blunt, I
>>   was seething with anger. I was mightily annoyed to read that John had
>>   made a decision to appoint Sandy as his Moderator, with no discussion
>>   on the list. I don't know if Eric Hughes and Hugh Daniel were asked
>>   their opinions, but I certainly know I was not. I feel that as one of
>>   the two or three founders, depending on how one is counting, and as a
>>   frequent contributor to the list since its inception, and so on, I
>>   (and others) should at least have been told of this plan. Better yet,
>>   have the plans discussed on the list, as some good ideas may have
>>   been generated.
>>
>> I'll have more to say about my problems with how things were handled.
>> Frankly, it smacked of the same kind of fait accompli decision John made
>> with the unsubscribing of Vulis. While John had (and has) every legal
>> right to do with his property as he wished, the effect was very
>> negative. First, Vulis found other ways to post (duh). Second, the list
>> was consumed with flames about this, many from Vulis, and many from
>> others. Third, journalists (who love sizzle over substance any day of
>> the week) lept into the fray with articles which gave Vulis the
>> publicity he craved. Fourth, it sent a message to enemies of liberty
>> that "Even the Cypherpunks have found it necessary to abandon their
>> anarchic ways."
>>
>> (I'm well aware of the issues with pests like Vulis, who seek to destroy
>> virtual communities like ours. But the solution John used did not work,
>> and generated more crap. As you all should know, it was John himself
>> who coined the wonderful saying, "The Net interprets censorship as
>> damage and routes around it." A delicious irony.)
>>
>> * In the archives, I did see a bunch of "I support Sandy" and "John is
>>   our leader" comments from reasonable people. The obvious noise of
>>   Vulis and his cohorts like Aga made a "Do something!" attitude
>>   somewhat understandable. I don't think the decision made was a wise
>>   one, and I strongly doubt it will work to make the list a better one.
>>
>> * The proper solution to bad speech is more speech, not censorship.
>> Censorship just makes opponents of "speech anarchy" happy--it affirms
>>   their basic belief that censors are needed.
>>
>> * "Censorship" is another overloaded term. I don't think the
>>   "Definition 1" of dictionary definitions, about _governmental_
>>   restrictions, is the only meaningful definition. Everybody knows what
>>   it meant when we say that "Lockheed is censoring the views of
>>   employees," even though we know Lockheed is not using government
>>   power. A censor is one who censors. And even my "American Heritage
>>   Dictionary" gives this as its "definition 1":
>>
>> "censor n. 1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other
>> material and to remove or suppress morally, politically, or otherwise
>> objectionable."
>>
>> (Other dictionaries of course give similar definitions. The notion that
>> censors are confined to being government employees is a misconception.)
>>
>> * OK, even given that John had decided to censor "his" list, what about
>>   his choice of Sandy Sandfort as the censor? I've known Sandy for
>>   several years (I was the one who invited him to the second
>>   Cypherpunks meeting), but he's a poor choice as a censor, moderator,
>>   whatever. First, because he has so often gotten involved in
>>   protracted flame wars, such as with Vulis (remember the dozens of
>>   messages about the "bet" to bring Vulis out? I stayed out of the
>>   charade completely.), with Hallam-Baker, and with others. Second,
>>   because he has not been actively composing essays for a while,
>>   perhaps because of his job with Community Connexion. Other reasons,
>>   too.
>>
>> (I count Sandy as a friend, but I'm just being honest here. Sandy is
>> just not a "Peter Neumann" (moderator of the "RISKS" list).
>>
>> * Nor do the announced criteria make any sense. While the inane one-line
>> scatological insults have been filtered out, many "flames" make it
>>   through, based on what I've seen in perusing the hks archive site.
>>   And some reasonable comments get dumped in the flame bucket.
>>
>> * As expected, those who only want to talk about cryptography (but who
>> rarely do, themselves, also as expected) waste bandwidth saying the
>> "anarchist" and "libertarian" stuff ought to go in to the "rejected"
>>   list. More bandwidth wasted, as each group lobbies to have its
>>   ideological opponents censored by Sandy.
>>
>> * I would have had no problem had John announced that he was creating a
>>   new list, the "Good Stuff" list, with Sandy has his Chooser of Good
>>   Stuff. After all, both Eric Blossom and Ray Arachelian already offer
>>   just such lists, and more would not hurt.
>>
>> But by making the _main list_ the censored one, this skewed things
>> considerably.
>>
>> * (Frankly, one of my considerations in leaving was the feeling that I
>> would never know if an essay I'd spent hours composing would be
>>   rejected by Sandy for whatever reasons....maybe he might think my
>>   essay was off-topic, or used one of the Seven Deadly Words, or was
>>   "too flamish." Whatever. I realized that life is too short to have
>>   Sandy Sandfort deciding whether my essays should go out to the main
>>   list (which is really just a list like Eric Blossom's best-of list,
>>   except it is be edict now the main list) or be dumped into the flames
>>   list, to be read by a handful of people.)
>>
>> * Why, many reasonable people may ask, did I not simply unsubscribe from
>> the "Cypherpunks" list and subscribe to the "Cypherpunks-Unedited) (or
>> whatever it is called) list? Because of my overall anger with the issues
>> raised above. The imperiousness of the decision, the notion of favoring
>> Sandy's tastes in a more "first class" way than, say, the tastes of Eric
>> Blossom, Ray Arachelian, or, for that matter, me.  "Some censors are
>>   more equal than others."
>>
>> * The decision to "moderate" (censor) the Cypherpunks list is powerful
>> ammunition to give to our opponents, and Vulis is certainly gleeful that
>> his fondest wishes have been realized. And it won't work. People are
>> consuming even more bandwidth arguing the merits of John's decision, the
>> traffic is presumably being slowed down by the need for Sandy to wade
>> through the traffic and stamp "Approved" or "Rejected" on what he
>>   glances at, and people are "testing the limits" of what they can say
>>   and what they can't say.
>>
>> * It also sends a message that people are incapable of filtering out bad
>> speech, that they need a censor to do it for them. (Again, I have no
>> problem with competing "screeners," a la having Ray, Eric, or David
>> Sternlight filtering what they think is OK and what is not. Let a
>>   thousand filtering services bloom.) But the clear message by having
>>   Sandy censor the main list (the default list, the list name with the
>>   main name, the list we all know about, etc.) is that Cypherpunks need
>>   Big Brother to shelter them from Bad Thoughts, from Naughty Words,
>>   from Evil Flames, and from Impure Desires. Foo on that.
>>
>> * Psychologists might point to random reinforcement, even to the
>>   effects of terror. How many of us are likely to write controversial
>>   posts knowing that Sandy might wake up having a "bad hair day" and
>>   thus reject our posts? How many will begin to skew their opinions to
>>   match those of Sandy? (I would venture a guess that a Duncan Frissell
>>   would almost certainly get a libertarian rant past Sandy while a
>>   Phill Hallam-Baker might easily fail to get a leftist rant past him.)
>>
>> * Those who want "less noise" should subcontract with the filter
>>   services of their own choosing. This is the "Cypherpunk Way." Having
>>   Sandy as the censor is the easy way out.
>>
>> * By the way, the moderated list "RISKS"  works pretty well. But it is
>>   not a _discussion_ group. It is, rather, a digest of news items
>>   related to computer and technology risks, with some discussion by
>>   various contributors, and with a long turnaround time of a few issues
>>   per week, tops. Peter Neumann also devotes a lot of time to making it
>>   run smoothly and bases part of his professional career on running it.
>>   I surmise that Sandy is not prepared to do the same. Nor would this
>>   be a good idea, as this would kill the spirit of the debate.
>>
>> * Had there been a debate about the policy, I can think of several
>> approaches I'd like better. But inasmuch as John made it clear that
>>   there would be no debate (and, perhaps as part of the "problem," John
>>   has not really been a active member of the mailing list, in terms of
>>   participating in the debates), this is all moot.
>>
>> In any case, my several years with the list have taken a huge amount of
>> my time. Given the way this whole thing was handled, and the way the
>> list is degenerating even further, it looks like it's good that I'm
>> moving on to other things.
>>
>>
>> * To summarize:
>>
>> - the decision to censor the list was made without any discussion on the
>> list, without any discussion with at least some of the longterm core
>> contributors, and was presented as a "fait accompli."
>>
>> - while John has every right to do with his hardware as he wishes, he
>>   does not "own" the Cypherpunks group (though whether he owns the
>>   "list" is a semantically debatable point)
>>
>> - whatever our group once was, or still is, is not dependent on having a
>> particular mailing list running on someone's home machine...and it
>>   cannot be claimed that any person "owns" the Cypherpunks group.
>>
>> - there is some talk of creating another Cypherpunks list, on other
>> machines; I don't know whether or not this will fly, or if I'll devote
>>   any time to such lists.
>>
>> - the effect of censorship, such as I have seen it so far, is not
>>   producing a better list. In fact, as I would have expected, it is
>>   producing a more boring and sheltered list.
>>
>>
>> And so there you have it.
>>
>> I had no plans to set down my views, feeling it was a waste of my time
>> and your time. Rather than foam and rant the way some did (and Vulis
>> must have posted 100 messages on the subject), I chose to simply make
>> my exit, quickly.
>>
>> But as I have recently seen several mentions of my absence (including a
>> particularly complimentary comment from Asgaard--thanks), I do feel I
>> owe it to you all to explain my views.
>>
>> Which I have done. Have a nice year, and a nice millenium in a couple
>> of years.
>>
>>
>> --Tim May
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
>> We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't
>> allowed.
>> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>>
>> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital
>> money, tcmay at got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital
>> pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations,
>> information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets,
>> collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on
>> the information superhighway."
>
>
>


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From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Apr 26 10:35:37 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:35:37 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Right. A few days ago we slipped under the lasers, slithered past 
motion detectors,
aimed a night scope at the silhouette trying to calm a gaggle of 
squabbling cats,
quickly snapped a dozen of infrareds, setting off bam, bam, bam, 
instantly felt
the shadows fireball around us, singeing our asbestos foiled tents, 
stun grenades
blasting our shallows, swarm of drones peppering us with dum-dums, teams of
robots roaring and thrumming and spewing greenish skin-eating droplets and
lung ravaging vapors, thankfully we were ready for all that, except one little
oversight: a great chasm split the desert, a mushroom rose into the air, there
was begoggled Ninja'd Tim hanging upside down like a giant dope-wizened bat
from a black balloon, well, that's the last thing we saw before awakening atop
the Empire State Building, naked and afraid.


>Corralitos is a good place to 'bunker down' at. He still lives up there
>last I knew (2015)
>
>http://santacruzupdate.com/2015/05/06/how-do-you-maintain-a-balance-between-being-informed-and-staying-sane/





From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr 26 06:58:21 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:58:21 +0000
Subject: Australia's Secret Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis - Libertarian economics
 - perception of a free market
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSQX2zC__PW3vXKJp5Qip7DnjFqs+HANWS_D5ngFz6aNA@mail.gmail.com>

If you're an Australian with a mortgage, you might consider that you
owe it to yourself to investigate your own mortgage, by FOI, by
viewing, searching and pursuing - a time of crisis is almost always an
opportunity for some, and that might be you.

Carpe diem.


----- Original Message -----
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 08:08:24 +0800
Subject: Australian mortgages

Hi all,

The following link is to a 27 minute clip of some astounding
information regarding Australian mortgages. If you have or have had a
mortgage, this is a MUST WATCH. It is one of the best and most
accurate expose of this fraudulent activity by central banks that I've
ever seen.

Australia's Secret Sub-Prime Crisis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMcf4PUyOzY




From wb8foz at nrk.com  Tue Apr 26 10:58:34 2016
From: wb8foz at nrk.com (David)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:58:34 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com>


> Corralitos is a good place to 'bunker down' at. He still lives up there
> last I knew (2015)


Wow, all the times I went through there on the way up Eureka Canyon to 
Rider Road or Summmit, and I had no idea....





From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:33:08 2016
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:33:08 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com>
Message-ID: <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>


> On Apr 26, 2016, at 1:58 PM, David <wb8foz at nrk.com> wrote:
> 
> Wow, all the times I went through there on the way up Eureka Canyon to Rider Road or Summmit, and I had no idea....

Like Heinlein before him, and as John has already observed, Tim hates having hippies camp out on his driveway.

Cheers,
RAH





From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:57:19 2016
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:57:19 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQUpNEqXRCzv-R8cVd6z56E_fny_WTD16rgYUYQ5Vrp8ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUpNEqXRCzv-R8cVd6z56E_fny_WTD16rgYUYQ5Vrp8ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB7F8C76-6B02-48FE-BE08-08E1633E5A0D@gmail.com>


> On Apr 26, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> all fucking rich fucks hate the camping hippies?

Yup. Especially the rich fucks who earned their own money… Especially the hippies who smell bad. :-)

Cheers,
RAH





From rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 26 15:19:30 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:19:30 -0700
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <571FE972.7090603@riseup.net>

Watch out for the suspended animation Nazi shock troops squirreled away
in the bombed out for WWII Laurel train tunnel at the summit, and also
the area around Western Atomic Vaults (I think their name's changed) up
in Zayante hosts a plethora of Zombie Hippies hiding amongst the
Sillycon Valley crowd.


On 04/26/2016 10:35 AM, John Young wrote:
> Right. A few days ago we slipped under the lasers, slithered past
> motion detectors,
> aimed a night scope at the silhouette trying to calm a gaggle of
> squabbling cats,
> quickly snapped a dozen of infrareds, setting off bam, bam, bam,
> instantly felt
> the shadows fireball around us, singeing our asbestos foiled tents,
> stun grenades
> blasting our shallows, swarm of drones peppering us with dum-dums,
> teams of
> robots roaring and thrumming and spewing greenish skin-eating droplets
> and
> lung ravaging vapors, thankfully we were ready for all that, except
> one little
> oversight: a great chasm split the desert, a mushroom rose into the
> air, there
> was begoggled Ninja'd Tim hanging upside down like a giant
> dope-wizened bat
> from a black balloon, well, that's the last thing we saw before
> awakening atop
> the Empire State Building, naked and afraid.
>
>
>> Corralitos is a good place to 'bunker down' at. He still lives up there
>> last I knew (2015)
>>
>> http://santacruzupdate.com/2015/05/06/how-do-you-maintain-a-balance-between-being-informed-and-staying-sane/
>>
>
>
>


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From wb8foz at nrk.com  Tue Apr 26 12:31:15 2016
From: wb8foz at nrk.com (David)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:31:15 -0400
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571FC203.1010703@nrk.com>

On 4/26/16 2:33 PM, Robert Hettinga wrote:

 > Like Heinlein before him, and as John has already observed, Tim hates
 > having hippies camp out on his driveway.

I'm too old and round to be a hippie, alas. Besides which, my then-client 
had a 4600 ft driveway of his own there...and a few dozen acres. I stayed 
in a house in Aptos.







From rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 26 15:31:31 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:31:31 -0700
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571FEC43.2060109@riseup.net>



On 04/26/2016 11:33 AM, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> On Apr 26, 2016, at 1:58 PM, David <wb8foz at nrk.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow, all the times I went through there on the way up Eureka Canyon to Rider Road or Summmit, and I had no idea....
> Like Heinlein before him, and as John has already observed, Tim hates having hippies camp out on his driveway.
>
> Cheers,
> RAH
>
>

Before I arrived in the area (1976) Corralitos WAS where the 'hippies'
lived, and Aptos (gasp!), up on Cathedral... Before it was paved.
Yuppies hate it when the paint on their bimmer (update: Tesla) gets rock
chipped. As the road got paved, the commuters moved in. Even
Watsonville, after everyone figured out it wasn't much farther to go
over Hecker Pass and up 101. For a while Zayante Road, a tiny winding
two-laner without shoulders out of Felton became a commuter speedway
unsafe for kids walking to school b/c Zayante > Summit rd > Bear Creek
rd > 17 was much more fun and avoided the Highway 17 traffic almost to
Los Gatos. Los Gatos USED TO BE a outlaw biker hideaway!

Hipster Geek Invasion... and it's not over yet.

RR

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From rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr 26 15:36:27 2016
From: rayzer at riseup.net (Rayzer)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 15:36:27 -0700
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <FB7F8C76-6B02-48FE-BE08-08E1633E5A0D@gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net> <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUpNEqXRCzv-R8cVd6z56E_fny_WTD16rgYUYQ5Vrp8ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <FB7F8C76-6B02-48FE-BE08-08E1633E5A0D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571FED6B.3040600@riseup.net>



On 04/26/2016 11:57 AM, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> On Apr 26, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> all fucking rich fucks hate the camping hippies?
> Yup. Especially the rich fucks who earned their own money… Especially the hippies who smell bad. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> RAH
>
>
>


I've noted over the years that many software developers 'smell bad'. I
think it's the cocaine and alcohol.

RR

Ps. Most of those "Rich fucks who earned their own money" blew it off
just as fast as they earned it on hookers and lamborghinis (because they
had no class and didn't understand why they had to wait for delivery on
a Maserati) . A LOT of them can be found down on the San Lorenzo levee.
Burned out and sucking a bottle of two buck chuck.

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From dan at geer.org  Tue Apr 26 14:32:51 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 17:32:51 -0400
Subject: blockchain startup
Message-ID: <20160426213251.7B842A06DED@palinka.tinho.net>

Shocard
https://shocard.com/

Secure Public Data Layer
BLOCKCHAIN 2.0

The ShoCard Identity Platform is built on a public blockchain data
layer, so as a company we're not storing any data or keys that could
be compromised. All identity data is encrypted and hashed then
stored in the blockchain...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 14:46:40 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 17:46:40 -0400
Subject: Offtopic posts
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>

Recently there have been posts regarding offtopic posts.
Speculating that at least one user here has prompted those...

Zenaan got booted (or emigrated) from ubuntu fora
to some dead google group, till finding this place to
post his Rus-Aus etc stuff. This is not a personal swat
at Zenaan (or anyone else), he (and they) are surely
fine folks all around. And such posts are in fact interesting
to interested readers.
But instead is a note that there do need to be other places,
and referrals to such, where such things are ontopic and
uncensored, such that they may call them home.
Unfortunately, unless such posts here make reference
back to a somehow crypto, cpunk, c-tech, c-law context...
they're offtopic.
And frequently violating that should be expected to bring fire...
to the point that the violating author will be silently killfiled,
thus nullifying themselves.

I'm no ontopic angel, send me to hell if you want.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 14:55:09 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 17:55:09 -0400
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28kyGhMUxNhsBBo-P0Enw9RrVpx_xRhdZHX0HdP-C9PUw@mail.gmail.com>

And of course c-social, c-politics, c-whatever...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:03:09 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:03:09 -0400
Subject: blockchain startup
In-Reply-To: <20160426213251.7B842A06DED@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <20160426213251.7B842A06DED@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti283hSd8srBxFK5zDfpwpMYx7XHG3g3yG=4s6-13u=KVvg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/16, dan at geer.org <dan at geer.org> wrote:
> Shocard
> https://shocard.com/
>
> Secure Public Data Layer
> BLOCKCHAIN 2.0
>
> The ShoCard Identity Platform is built on a public blockchain data
> layer, so as a company we're not storing any data or keys that could
> be compromised. All identity data is encrypted and hashed then
> stored in the blockchain...

As with PGP, "driver licences", passports, databases, etc...
people may not have a problem with this new model.

What they may / do have a problem with is,
now they themselves being more educated and aware,
that such systems proposed by others wanting over them
may not be voluntary or actually necessary to any given purpose,
nor give them the fine grained "self source of authority"
controls they may desire.

Try again, inventors.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:09:43 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:09:43 -0400
Subject: [Cryptography] Darpa wants a secure messaging app based on
 blockchains
In-Reply-To: <7BB5F42B-1659-487D-98C6-20EF4C3031E7@lrw.com>
References: <E1av5gD-0000hz-5b@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <alpine.LRH.2.20.1604261425240.17097@ns0.nohats.ca>
 <7BB5F42B-1659-487D-98C6-20EF4C3031E7@lrw.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_onto+_bNPTxOP8C7hj+jqG8ar1fvUNMw9kNtE5FZEuw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/16, Jerry Leichter <leichter at lrw.com> wrote:
> There's nothing in the SBIR proposal that calls for back doors.
>
> Keep in mind that the FBI is at this point pretty much out there alone in
> demanding back doors (though they won't admit that that's what they really
> want).

Alone is no reason to ever cease putting the pressure on
those sorts of people / entities. After all, they do it to you,
courtesy of your taxes, and their whim, and your opponents,
24 x 7 x 365... no proposal needed.




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Apr 26 15:11:52 2016
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:11:52 -0400
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Definitely: a high paywall, start at $1,000 a post, to cull the deadbeats.
That's in bullion, no bitshit. Mis-post and price doubles, then goes geometric
after 3. Your PINs are known.

Here's the post ticket line: Hettinga hosts a deep "FC" vault packed
with RL ransom goodies any deadbeat nation would genocide to
expropriate for ignorant spenders of cognitive capital aka FC-CC.

Now you know why only 200 Panama Papers files of 11,500,000
have been released. Robert's vault PIN is way off planet.



At 05:46 PM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
>Recently there have been posts regarding offtopic posts.
>Speculating that at least one user here has prompted those...
>
>Zenaan got booted (or emigrated) from ubuntu fora
>to some dead google group, till finding this place to
>post his Rus-Aus etc stuff. This is not a personal swat
>at Zenaan (or anyone else), he (and they) are surely
>fine folks all around. And such posts are in fact interesting
>to interested readers.
>But instead is a note that there do need to be other places,
>and referrals to such, where such things are ontopic and
>uncensored, such that they may call them home.
>Unfortunately, unless such posts here make reference
>back to a somehow crypto, cpunk, c-tech, c-law context...
>they're offtopic.
>And frequently violating that should be expected to bring fire...
>to the point that the violating author will be silently killfiled,
>thus nullifying themselves.
>
>I'm no ontopic angel, send me to hell if you want.





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:12:57 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 18:12:57 -0400
Subject: [Cryptography] Darpa wants a secure messaging app based on
 blockchains
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_onto+_bNPTxOP8C7hj+jqG8ar1fvUNMw9kNtE5FZEuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1av5gD-0000hz-5b@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <alpine.LRH.2.20.1604261425240.17097@ns0.nohats.ca>
 <7BB5F42B-1659-487D-98C6-20EF4C3031E7@lrw.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_onto+_bNPTxOP8C7hj+jqG8ar1fvUNMw9kNtE5FZEuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28_zxk+eazNth1rZrrj3vDNc8=orz_h=g25dz40BESDpQ@mail.gmail.com>

All they need to do is catch you sleeping and you're done.
Better invest in coffee, coca, and your WWF Tag Team.




From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 11:43:43 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 20:43:43 +0200
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUpNEqXRCzv-R8cVd6z56E_fny_WTD16rgYUYQ5Vrp8ow@mail.gmail.com>

all fucking rich fucks hate the camping hippies?

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > On Apr 26, 2016, at 1:58 PM, David <wb8foz at nrk.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wow, all the times I went through there on the way up Eureka Canyon to
> Rider Road or Summmit, and I had no idea....
>
> Like Heinlein before him, and as John has already observed, Tim hates
> having hippies camp out on his driveway.
>
> Cheers,
> RAH
>
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From alfie at alfie.wtf  Tue Apr 26 14:08:04 2016
From: alfie at alfie.wtf (Alfie John)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:08:04 +0000
Subject: Australia's Secret Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis - Libertarian
 economics - perception of a free market
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSQX2zC__PW3vXKJp5Qip7DnjFqs+HANWS_D5ngFz6aNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSQX2zC__PW3vXKJp5Qip7DnjFqs+HANWS_D5ngFz6aNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160426210804.GL18036@dosf1.alfie.wtf>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 01:58:21PM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> If you're an Australian with a mortgage, you might consider that you
> owe it to yourself to investigate your own mortgage, by FOI, by
> viewing, searching and pursuing - a time of crisis is almost always an
> opportunity for some, and that might be you.
> 
> Carpe diem.

Even as an Australian with a mortgage, this post doesn't belong on cpunks.
Consider keeping this to /r/conspiracy.

Alfie

-- 
Alfie John
https://www.alfie.wtf




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 19:11:29 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:11:29 -0400
Subject: Bullion and BitShit
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29UaVrx383=4wGHCE-75Z=p5CWxEPpB8kteoh6tY4qrGQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/16, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> That's in bullion, no bitshit.

At least with the current generation and lineage of software
BitShit, you know exactly how much of it is in the ground,
how fast it's being mined, the pots it's held in, if it's moving,
what the metrics are and so on.
Even if you don't know who owns pots, or what the Grand Scheme
is, that's still better than most buillion schemes be it rocks, metals,
or paper. Though perhaps a bit more risky due to newness.

BTW, whatever shit is or isn't in Fort Knox hasn't seen
the light of day in over 40 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Point_Mint
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Depository
http://nymag.com/news/9-11/10th-anniversary/gold/
http://www.rediff.com/money/2001/nov/17wtc.htm

To understand BitShit, it's needed to understand some of this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullion_coin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock

> Now you know why only 200 Panama Papers files of 11,500,000
> have been released.

Another dataset, lost till time irrelavent.
Backup your BitShit.




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr 26 17:00:14 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:00:14 +0000
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV-URsdWxc-eB6PZ8ggmzQzp0_BYTZiYfJX-2hZvX7gdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAGRDzQV-URsdWxc-eB6PZ8ggmzQzp0_BYTZiYfJX-2hZvX7gdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRP24=WmhTnCQg=OpWq-sLQo4WJSvZDy_bqQDR_XHaAxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/16, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Zeenan wanted to make a fucking subgroup email group and was told fr others
> to keep it here
>
> Not fucking paying attention to reality ... what can we boot for that shit

There is evidently a tension between what some folks want to
read/write about, what others want, and what still some others want.

Me, I just want an uncensored list, where people who go off the rails
occasionally are forgiven and otherwise accommodated, and those who
stay off their derailed one track mind get killfiled so the rest get
on with life.

I always hold that we ought respect the founder's' intentions for any
particular list. Those who wish to host should have an expectation
that if they don't respect the founders' intentions repeatedly, they
will be routed around.

The intention of a group may shift over time too - and seems like some
hold that either the list is getting generally off topic for what it
should be, or that the intention of the list has shifted. It is my
intention to associate with others, both online and offline, who want
to have robust communication (which implies some accommodation and
forgiveness), who want to live freedom of speech and other "human
rights", and who might be competent to inform me personally when I'm
actually off the rails.

Instantiating online forums is relatively low friction and low cost these days.

The email list format is certainly preferable to me over forums and
blogs-with-comments - too much irresistible tendency to
censor^Wmoderate with forums and blogs.

The heady days of the crypto pioneers has transformed a little - we're
more settlers now although there is always room and excitement re the
pioneer. But life changes, history informs us, and right now our world
faces some rather big things - in the 1990s the big thing -was-
pgp/gpg, https, and all the variations and possibilities we could
imagine. Ebay, Amazon and Google seem to have won that game - is
anyone surprised? Now the crypto front is rapidly turning into a mono
culture as per that very poignant recent blog/article that was posted
a few weeks back - so we must bless each other and thank fruck for D J
Bernstein and the next wave of mega corporates who will ride that pony
to their billions. So inspiring, original and pioneering yeah?

At this point in history the global financial and political system
was/ is (or appears to be) on a precipice - some big and bold
geopolitical and financial plays are happening around the world and
there's plenty of turmoil, perhaps more than ever in history (e.g. for
those unaware, two of the BRICS nations are currently experiencing the
American CIAs anal "color revolution" probes - this battle certainly
ain't over yet).

I'm also very interested in private communication, pseudonymous
communication, digital currencies - unfortunately I see no silver
bullets to the real problems we face though.  Human dignity can only
be had by those who stand, who claim their rights rather than beg for
some safety and privileges, who value things beyond self, that part of
humans which strives for something greater than mere physical comfort
and indolence. The happy go yippee hippies are rightly derided when
they transform into 'hip' go yippee yuppies in their beemas or teslas
demanding a sealed road to their fancy new storybook house - this has
happened all up and down the eastern coast of Australia - once
pristine paradisaical surfing shanty nature spots have mostly all
become mini metropolii, supermarkets, parking lots, endless sealed
roads and creeaking mansions. This is really sad. And the Australian
eastern coast is ginormous - a few thousand kilometers.

Humans.




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr 26 17:19:26 2016
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:19:26 +0000
Subject: Australia's Secret Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis - Libertarian
 economics - perception of a free market
In-Reply-To: <20160426210804.GL18036@dosf1.alfie.wtf>
References: <CAOsGNSSQX2zC__PW3vXKJp5Qip7DnjFqs+HANWS_D5ngFz6aNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20160426210804.GL18036@dosf1.alfie.wtf>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSWsCvVFcRnXPcQECLn+JBheKFdw0WU6UDW5XRc993OHg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/16, Alfie John <alfie at alfie.wtf> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 01:58:21PM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> If you're an Australian with a mortgage, you might consider that you
>> owe it to yourself to investigate your own mortgage, by FOI, by
>> viewing, searching and pursuing - a time of crisis is almost always an
>> opportunity for some, and that might be you.
>>
>> Carpe diem.
>
> Even as an Australian with a mortgage, this post doesn't belong on cpunks.
> Consider keeping this to /r/conspiracy.

A Supreme Court precedent, and over 200 people known to have had their
mortgages cancelled (and an unknown number having settled out of court
under non disclosure) are anecdotes, but they are facts, and
therefore, no conspiracy here, just an opportunity for ~10% of
high-doc (normal) mortgagees and 100% of low-doc (high risk)
mortgagees (sample size 500 analysed, over 200 to mortgage
cancellation, PhD thesis guy).

It may be uncomfortable to file an FOI with your bank to obtain their
internal loan assessment form.

It may be mildly interesting to then discover they completely invented
a number of facts on their form.

It may be confronting and upsetting to even consider writing a letter
to the bank demanding an explanation and suggesting you'll take the
matter to court.

There are many ways this article can be described, but conspiracy is
definitely not one that will hold up in this instance.

If there's a general concensus, I'm happy for a
noncypherbutstillpunkpunks list. We certainly owe it to ourselves to
create 'spaces' which we find uplifting and inspiring.




From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 15:27:27 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 00:27:27 +0200
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQV-URsdWxc-eB6PZ8ggmzQzp0_BYTZiYfJX-2hZvX7gdA@mail.gmail.com>

Zeenan wanted to make a fucking subgroup email group and was told fr others
to keep it here

Not fucking paying attention to reality ... what can we boot for that shit
On Apr 27, 2016 1:21 AM, "John Young" <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> Definitely: a high paywall, start at $1,000 a post, to cull the deadbeats.
> That's in bullion, no bitshit. Mis-post and price doubles, then goes
> geometric
> after 3. Your PINs are known.
>
> Here's the post ticket line: Hettinga hosts a deep "FC" vault packed
> with RL ransom goodies any deadbeat nation would genocide to
> expropriate for ignorant spenders of cognitive capital aka FC-CC.
>
> Now you know why only 200 Panama Papers files of 11,500,000
> have been released. Robert's vault PIN is way off planet.
>
>
>
> At 05:46 PM 4/26/2016, you wrote:
>
>> Recently there have been posts regarding offtopic posts.
>> Speculating that at least one user here has prompted those...
>>
>> Zenaan got booted (or emigrated) from ubuntu fora
>> to some dead google group, till finding this place to
>> post his Rus-Aus etc stuff. This is not a personal swat
>> at Zenaan (or anyone else), he (and they) are surely
>> fine folks all around. And such posts are in fact interesting
>> to interested readers.
>> But instead is a note that there do need to be other places,
>> and referrals to such, where such things are ontopic and
>> uncensored, such that they may call them home.
>> Unfortunately, unless such posts here make reference
>> back to a somehow crypto, cpunk, c-tech, c-law context...
>> they're offtopic.
>> And frequently violating that should be expected to bring fire...
>> to the point that the violating author will be silently killfiled,
>> thus nullifying themselves.
>>
>> I'm no ontopic angel, send me to hell if you want.
>>
>
>
>
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:04:22 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:04:22 +0200
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <571FED6B.3040600@riseup.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com> <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FAC4A.6010400@nrk.com> <EDD32FC6-B2BB-4F2F-9B5A-818C3AB8A6A9@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUpNEqXRCzv-R8cVd6z56E_fny_WTD16rgYUYQ5Vrp8ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <FB7F8C76-6B02-48FE-BE08-08E1633E5A0D@gmail.com> <571FED6B.3040600@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQWFFQbAf8dXnTmOcw7ZKTX9Cb3JLHMmQAHemDz7RC7Tdw@mail.gmail.com>

jerry garcia was not rail thin as i recall and not fucking young

kurt cobain said he would only wear a tye died tshirt if it was made from
the blood and piss of jerry - hail hail

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:36 AM, Rayzer <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 04/26/2016 11:57 AM, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> >> On Apr 26, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> all fucking rich fucks hate the camping hippies?
> > Yup. Especially the rich fucks who earned their own money… Especially
> the hippies who smell bad. :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > RAH
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> I've noted over the years that many software developers 'smell bad'. I
> think it's the cocaine and alcohol.
>
> RR
>
> Ps. Most of those "Rich fucks who earned their own money" blew it off
> just as fast as they earned it on hookers and lamborghinis (because they
> had no class and didn't understand why they had to wait for delivery on
> a Maserati) . A LOT of them can be found down on the San Lorenzo levee.
> Burned out and sucking a bottle of two buck chuck.
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:08:07 2016
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 01:08:07 +0200
Subject: vintage cpunk
In-Reply-To: <571FE972.7090603@riseup.net>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <571e601b.a84d420a.26607.ffffdac2@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSTAMWfKAxo12DwPbBU1hTO5kimEvqU3WhTGkU3tZfHyPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSSdxaEMb8inmedOjppU8Wp7U4VBihG0LG51WZKspr3kMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28-OPEh6=PAQfB_imo8NFyOvG4YiRfajTd9UPBbLYWBMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <571efc1d.4952620a.d8b33.400a@mx.google.com>
 <E1av2WM-0006te-2G@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571F9ED1.6090906@riseup.net>
 <E1av6sn-0003Xg-Op@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <571FE972.7090603@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUtL-BOT_yBM4D4CsV4byPSPuvhV2EEfZf8gPNBGHnOQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Big rich boys earn their very own money when they grow up?

Hippies use anise

Rich people use toxic shit the capitalist chemists are murdering the planet
with
On Apr 27, 2016 1:29 AM, "Rayzer" <rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> Watch out for the suspended animation Nazi shock troops squirreled away
> in the bombed out for WWII Laurel train tunnel at the summit, and also
> the area around Western Atomic Vaults (I think their name's changed) up
> in Zayante hosts a plethora of Zombie Hippies hiding amongst the
> Sillycon Valley crowd.
>
>
> On 04/26/2016 10:35 AM, John Young wrote:
> > Right. A few days ago we slipped under the lasers, slithered past
> > motion detectors,
> > aimed a night scope at the silhouette trying to calm a gaggle of
> > squabbling cats,
> > quickly snapped a dozen of infrareds, setting off bam, bam, bam,
> > instantly felt
> > the shadows fireball around us, singeing our asbestos foiled tents,
> > stun grenades
> > blasting our shallows, swarm of drones peppering us with dum-dums,
> > teams of
> > robots roaring and thrumming and spewing greenish skin-eating droplets
> > and
> > lung ravaging vapors, thankfully we were ready for all that, except
> > one little
> > oversight: a great chasm split the desert, a mushroom rose into the
> > air, there
> > was begoggled Ninja'd Tim hanging upside down like a giant
> > dope-wizened bat
> > from a black balloon, well, that's the last thing we saw before
> > awakening atop
> > the Empire State Building, naked and afraid.
> >
> >
> >> Corralitos is a good place to 'bunker down' at. He still lives up there
> >> last I knew (2015)
> >>
> >>
> http://santacruzupdate.com/2015/05/06/how-do-you-maintain-a-balance-between-being-informed-and-staying-sane/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr 27 02:57:36 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 05:57:36 -0400
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbJgmUzf9_8TT7Kj1m71-DM2O+Z5jXc5Tt=oYP+R+75W1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAGRDzQV-URsdWxc-eB6PZ8ggmzQzp0_BYTZiYfJX-2hZvX7gdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRP24=WmhTnCQg=OpWq-sLQo4WJSvZDy_bqQDR_XHaAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbJgmUzf9_8TT7Kj1m71-DM2O+Z5jXc5Tt=oYP+R+75W1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57208D10.3050109@pilobilus.net>

On 04/27/2016 12:58 AM, Александр wrote:
 > So yes. fuck off with your whining. Not to mention that this list is 
based on PUNK and not just on crypto.
 > And that all those "punk without crypto issues"​​
 > AFFECT the crypto in the most serious way!

I was thinking along similar lines, given that "Fuck you, I do what I 
want" is as good a working definition of Punk as any.  On the other hand 
there is the Cypher- component of the title, so herding the anarchists 
in that general direction topic-wise is a community service in the 
category of maintenance:  A thankless menial task that makes the rest 
possible.

Anarchy is a journey, not a destination, so there is no point at which 
one can hang up a "mission accomplished" banner.  But Dilbert's pointy 
haired boss just got orders from /his/ boss to put back doors in the 
company's crypto-enabled products:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-18
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-19
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-20
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-21
http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-04-22

Also this:

"Michael Hayden, the former head of the CIA and the NSA, thinks the US 
government should stop railing against encryption and should support 
strong crypto rather than asking for backdoors."

https://motherboard.vice.com/read/former-nsa-chief-strongly-disagrees-with-current-nsa-chief-on-encryption

vs. https://tinyurl.com/gpoxmhl

It would not be accurate to say that the Cypherpunks have won the Crypto 
Wars that too is a journey, not a destination.  But damn.

Meanwhile, kicking around some of the "real world" topics that make 
crypto-anarchy relevant and necessary IRL seems appropriate to me, as 
long as the crypto- side of the equation doesn't get drowned out by the 
-anarchy side.  Subscribers who air their passionate ignorance on the 
political front serve as a reminder that propagandists see "smart 
people" as nothing but another demographic with exploitable weaknesses, 
an object lesson for all the "rebellious" folks out there.

:o)






From jnn at synfin.org  Wed Apr 27 04:41:06 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 07:41:06 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
References: <20160406124923.GA677@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <57053FB4.9070109@riseup.net>
 <20160420094943.GA1309@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <C8643470-3EF6-42EB-BFE4-B7C91EAD46D4@synfin.org>
 <571D73E8.40400@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of 
> farmhouses.

And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to raise
a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically stop raising
at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major coastal cities
- e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.

-- 
John 
jnn at synfin.org
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From afalex169 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:58:42 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 07:58:42 +0300
Subject: Offtopic posts
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRP24=WmhTnCQg=OpWq-sLQo4WJSvZDy_bqQDR_XHaAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29mkmVo00n8NuSaVV0dkCo0PLbqwx=T36mKpHCQ=XXROA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1avBCE-0007g0-70@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAGRDzQV-URsdWxc-eB6PZ8ggmzQzp0_BYTZiYfJX-2hZvX7gdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRP24=WmhTnCQg=OpWq-sLQo4WJSvZDy_bqQDR_XHaAxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbJgmUzf9_8TT7Kj1m71-DM2O+Z5jXc5Tt=oYP+R+75W1A@mail.gmail.com>

Most of the people WHO DO WANT to see "offtopic shit" on this list are
always silent. And the strict crypto-freaks - are so fucken noisy, God...

Believe it or not, but last year i got at least 20-25 different (personal)
emails from variety of people on Zenaan's/mine "offtopic" issues. (those
falks have got their own serious reasons not to publicly write here and
some of them explained it to me)

So yes. fuck off with your whining. Not to mention that this list is based
on PUNK and not just on crypto.
And that all those "punk without crypto issues"
​​
AFFECT the crypto in the most serious way!

P.s.
For crypto only - you've got the "cryptography at metzdowd.com".
Go whining there.
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From johnkoen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 07:01:51 2016
From: johnkoen at gmail.com (John C. Koen)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:01:51 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
Message-ID: <CAL4y8DVrU+0EkwT+-tA2zzkEE_WfQdXEN5WtP_ekv44pmedYYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting documentary called Chasing Ice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIZTMVNBjc4



> -----Original Message-----
> From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org] On Behalf Of
> John Newman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:41 AM
> To: James A. Donald <jamesd at echeque.com>
> Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
>
> * PGP Signed by an unknown key
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> > Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of
> > farmhouses.
>
> And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to raise a
> minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically stop raising at
> 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major coastal cities
> - e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
>
> --
> John
> jnn at synfin.org
>
> * Unknown Key
> * 0xD47A78C7
>



-- 
--johnk
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From dan at geer.org  Wed Apr 27 07:33:52 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:33:52 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:16:04 +0300."
 <20160425121604.GA683@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20160427143352.CE93BA06E0B@palinka.tinho.net>

As I read the literature, there is one whopping flywheel out there
(underwater) -- but it is unclear to me how that tiny sliver which
is land+air can be the driver.  Put differently, either it is
irrelevant or it is not; if irrelevant then we have to ask how it
is that the oceans are warming when the land+air which we are
modifying is so puny -or- if fully relevant then we have to ask how
much negative excursion the land+air has to take in order to wind
down that flywheel.  If it takes 300 years of burning coal to create
the warmed waters, then would one not have to scrub the atmosphere
clean of greenhouse gases for a couple of centuries to cool those
waters?  As I recall the models for "snowball earth," the presence
of ice down to the equator was a direct result of global algae
blooms that did, in fact, strip the atmosphere of greenhouse gases
and sequestered them in marine sediments leaving only volcanism as
the source of replenishment.

If taking the flywheel at face value, then one must conclude that
prevention is lost and only adaptation remains as an option.
Depopulating the coasts would thus be the most urgent target for
human-preservation planning, no?  Zurich would seem well positioned
to take over from London and NYC, for example.  The biggest public
display of scepticism to date w.r.t. global warming might have been
the $jillions of taxes spent to rebuild New Orleans' 9th Ward.  If
one remains convinced that action is possible and needful, the
question (for the anarchist persuasion, in particular) is what
government would you trust to administer compensatory global cooling?
Would you happily inject sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere(*)
for that purpose?  Should weather modification be subject to direct
democracy or does interventionist climate management require a
despotism?  Is this where sovereign unilateralism ends and world
government begins (wherein your personal needs and desires will be
vastly less relevant than they are even now)?

However satisfying, please to not pick one phrase in the above to
argue with; for cpunks relevance, the question is one of control
in a world of data-driven algorithmic regulation by non-human actors
acting in the name of the common good but uninterrogatable.

--dan

(*) "One kilogram of well placed sulfur in the stratosphere would
roughly offset the warming effect of several hundred thousand
kilograms of carbon dioxide."
  -- The Geoengineering Option, Foreign Affairs, March 2009




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr 27 11:15:03 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:15:03 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
Message-ID: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>

Annual token on-topic post:

Hardware considerations are inherent to the creation and solution of
practical crypto problems, because good crypto is best solved by
attacking the platforms it runs on.  The 'internet of things' creates a
massive comms attack surface, also best solved at the platform level
i.e. signals discipline.  When the scope of a project includes
non-attribution by 3rd parties, hit and run network access via tightly
controlled hardware is the only thing that can work against a well
funded State adversary.

I don't see much about hardware hacking on CPunks. I know that folks who
have worked on digital circuit design and manufacture are lurking out
there, also a bunch of ham radio people. Things they take for granted
are utterly mysterious to lesser mortals, including "computer experts"
focused on software and networking.

Field tested cheat sheets on security oriented, low tech DIY hardware
mods are among the most subversive things that can be published on the
technical front. CPunks subscribers may or may not personally need those
docs for the Nameless Mission or Big Show in our lifetimes, but others
do need them now.

How many lusers put tape over their laptop camera lens, but neglect to
cut the pins on the microphone?  How many people even know their shiny
new car has a GPS receiver and an IP capable two-way radio enabling
remote sabotage, and of these, how many know where the antenna
connections are?  There's a lot of room to educate a justifiably
paranoid public on practical aspects of these and similar matters, if
anyone has the time and interest to make that a Thing.

:o)


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 12:03:44 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:03:44 -0400
Subject: A complete guide to the new 'Crypto Wars'
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29=EvGnEZBL90bxUXabBESjq8rHwEXX=tHDbvce+nrNoQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/encryption-crypto-wars-backdoors-timeline-security-privacy/
The computer-science professors, cryptographers, and digital-rights
advocates who had beaten back similar demands in the 1990s experienced
deja vu. That series of fights, which they called the “Crypto Wars,”
had only been the first round of a prolonged conflict. Now it was time
to settle in for Crypto Wars, Round 2.
But where and when did this new phase began? Pinpointing that exact
moment may be impossible, but the timeline below provides a relatively
comprehensive overview of the different fights that constitute the new
Crypto War, from the early months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist
attacks to the present day.

[Not so complete... leaves out rise / spread of crypto, encrypted / anonymous
applications, networks, and activities, digital currencies, international
aspects. Someone should create and curate a better timeline, a wiki...]




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 12:03:48 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:03:48 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on influencing security in embedded, e.g., writing and
designing secure systems (comprehensively, starting with arch & code.) It's
an educational effort with embedded ISVs and OEMs at every step, you can
presume the market, if they're thinking of security at all, is currently
buying into 'fire-walling' and 'obfuscation' approaches.

There are some interesting groups like We Are the Cavalry working on that
as well.

Some fun uses of Raspberry Pi computers as air-gapped PGP / KeyStores and
Hardware Tor routers. DIY info-theoretic secure communications platforms
(opto-isolators and so on.)

On the topic of HWSec, I'm interested in detecting in-sil modification,
allowing end-users to simply and easily verify their hardware in the same
way that the OS community has become entranced with 'deterministic
verifiable builds'.

-Travis

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:

> Annual token on-topic post:
>
> Hardware considerations are inherent to the creation and solution of
> practical crypto problems, because good crypto is best solved by
> attacking the platforms it runs on.  The 'internet of things' creates a
> massive comms attack surface, also best solved at the platform level
> i.e. signals discipline.  When the scope of a project includes
> non-attribution by 3rd parties, hit and run network access via tightly
> controlled hardware is the only thing that can work against a well
> funded State adversary.
>
> I don't see much about hardware hacking on CPunks. I know that folks who
> have worked on digital circuit design and manufacture are lurking out
> there, also a bunch of ham radio people. Things they take for granted
> are utterly mysterious to lesser mortals, including "computer experts"
> focused on software and networking.
>
> Field tested cheat sheets on security oriented, low tech DIY hardware
> mods are among the most subversive things that can be published on the
> technical front. CPunks subscribers may or may not personally need those
> docs for the Nameless Mission or Big Show in our lifetimes, but others
> do need them now.
>
> How many lusers put tape over their laptop camera lens, but neglect to
> cut the pins on the microphone?  How many people even know their shiny
> new car has a GPS receiver and an IP capable two-way radio enabling
> remote sabotage, and of these, how many know where the antenna
> connections are?  There's a lot of room to educate a justifiably
> paranoid public on practical aspects of these and similar matters, if
> anyone has the time and interest to make that a Thing.
>
> :o)
>
>
>


-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 15:47:31 2016
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:47:31 -0700
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
 <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57214183.9030805@gmail.com>

>> I don't see much about hardware hacking on CPunks. [...]

I maintain FirmwareSecurity.com, a blog focused on firmware security and
developmen, mostly UEFI-focused. Hardware security is a topic, since
most firmware is very hardware-specific. It isn't a fancy blog, I still
haven't learned WordPress, it is mostly a paragraph or two of text and a
few URLs for a topic. I try to put personal research here so others can
benefit. The sad thing is I was looking for a better source and haven't
found it, so my lame blog is nearly the best there is. :-(

There are a few who teach hardware hacking classes, look at the
pre-conference training offerings of the normal infosec conference
circuit events, Black Hat, Def Con, Can Sec West, Infiltrate, REcon,
Troopers, etc. Look into the Stanford.edu LiberationTech mailing list,
there's a lot of personal technology security/privacy issues there, more
for activists but similar to OP's list of topics. I'm not sure of the
latest citizen-focused guidance for physical+cyber security. I expect
there's a link to the contenders on the LiberationTech list.

There is more happening on hardware/firmware security on Twitter than on
mailing lists. It would be nice to have a hardware/firmware hacking
mailing list. Not sure if some of the younger security researchers and
hackers will be able to spend time away from Twitter/Facebook/Reddit to
contribute to a mailing list, though. :-(

> I'm working on influencing security in embedded, e.g., writing and
> designing secure systems (comprehensively, starting with arch & code.)
It's
> an educational effort with embedded ISVs and OEMs at every step, you can
> presume the market, if they're thinking of security at all, is currently
> buying into 'fire-walling' and 'obfuscation' approaches. [..]

I'd love an URL to the above embedded security work, if any exists!





From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Apr 27 13:37:49 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:37:49 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
 <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5721231D.8060901@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 04/27/2016 03:03 PM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> I'm working on influencing security in embedded, e.g., writing and 
> designing secure systems (comprehensively, starting with arch &
> code.) It's an educational effort with embedded ISVs and OEMs at
> every step, you can presume the market, if they're thinking of
> security at all, is currently buying into 'fire-walling' and
> 'obfuscation' approaches.
> 
> There are some interesting groups like We Are the Cavalry working
> on that as well.
> 
> Some fun uses of Raspberry Pi computers as air-gapped PGP /
> KeyStores and Hardware Tor routers. DIY info-theoretic secure
> communications platforms (opto-isolators and so on.)
> 
> On the topic of HWSec, I'm interested in detecting in-sil
> modification, allowing end-users to simply and easily verify their
> hardware in the same way that the OS community has become entranced
> with 'deterministic verifiable builds'.
> 
> -Travis

I was thinking about step by step walk-throughs on things like:

* Generic and model-specific methods of reversibly (and not) disabling
automotive ECM radio.

* Positively preventing laptop WiFi signals from being broadcast
before the MAC address has been scrambled.

* Disabling built in microphones in computers and other network
capable devices

etc.

Most of the necessary info is on the networks, IF one knows the
applicable language and which sources to focus searches on.  Right now
I don't have the time for a new project but it's on my long term to-do
list until or unless somebody else does it.  Field testing - actually
doing the things described - makes a huge usability difference,
especially when writing for end users who do not have a background in
tinkering with electronics.  Things technologists take for granted and
would not mention can pop up as unbeatable obstacles when first timers
are trying to follow "simple" instructions.

A great example:  http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

:o)






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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 14:07:47 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:07:47 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <5721231D.8060901@pilobilus.net>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
 <CAKtE3zfvO-jda2xbGoTpaUQWjvOcxGwZdVY=K=7LpX2VUm47uA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5721231D.8060901@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zcHJg9reebkPLS1r3rCuq+YbFfoEqouX6-TVzvuA6hRWg@mail.gmail.com>

Ahh, neat project list - neutering your devices surface is certainly an
interesting bent.

I dig efforts to liberate access to embedded devices running flavors of
linux - usually you can find a guide to root shells on just about anything
that runs the kernel. RTOS, you aren't so lucky.

Your bits are much more complicated in physical land  - things are just so
much easier when a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0, no?

-Travis

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On 04/27/2016 03:03 PM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> > I'm working on influencing security in embedded, e.g., writing and
> > designing secure systems (comprehensively, starting with arch &
> > code.) It's an educational effort with embedded ISVs and OEMs at
> > every step, you can presume the market, if they're thinking of
> > security at all, is currently buying into 'fire-walling' and
> > 'obfuscation' approaches.
> >
> > There are some interesting groups like We Are the Cavalry working
> > on that as well.
> >
> > Some fun uses of Raspberry Pi computers as air-gapped PGP /
> > KeyStores and Hardware Tor routers. DIY info-theoretic secure
> > communications platforms (opto-isolators and so on.)
> >
> > On the topic of HWSec, I'm interested in detecting in-sil
> > modification, allowing end-users to simply and easily verify their
> > hardware in the same way that the OS community has become entranced
> > with 'deterministic verifiable builds'.
> >
> > -Travis
>
> I was thinking about step by step walk-throughs on things like:
>
> * Generic and model-specific methods of reversibly (and not) disabling
> automotive ECM radio.
>
> * Positively preventing laptop WiFi signals from being broadcast
> before the MAC address has been scrambled.
>
> * Disabling built in microphones in computers and other network
> capable devices
>
> etc.
>
> Most of the necessary info is on the networks, IF one knows the
> applicable language and which sources to focus searches on.  Right now
> I don't have the time for a new project but it's on my long term to-do
> list until or unless somebody else does it.  Field testing - actually
> doing the things described - makes a huge usability difference,
> especially when writing for end users who do not have a background in
> tinkering with electronics.  Things technologists take for granted and
> would not mention can pop up as unbeatable obstacles when first timers
> are trying to follow "simple" instructions.
>
> A great example:  http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
>
> :o)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Version: GnuPG v1
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> =zI8b
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 13:16:59 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:16:59 -0300
Subject: jamming spread spectrum
Message-ID: <57211df5.e100420a.23f7.fffff16a@mx.google.com>



http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1160&context=eesp
http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1234&context=eesp

feel free to add practical tips/relevant information/etc




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 27 13:06:06 2016
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:06:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
Message-ID: <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
>> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of 
>> farmhouses.

>And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to raise
>a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically stop raising
>at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major coastal cities
-> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9 millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters, or a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a minimum of 3 feet"?    Sea level rise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
  
|  
|   
|   
|   |    |

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Sea level rise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   |   |

  |

  |

 

Another thing:  While I haven't done the numbers, perhaps the practice of pumping water from wells, almost always ending up in the oceans, will have some effect.   If that turns out to be significant, what is needed is a practice of restoring fresh water to water tables where it started.  (Or at least where it relatively recently happened to be.)  
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From jnn at synfin.org  Wed Apr 27 18:21:32 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:21:32 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
 <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>

> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:06 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> >> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of 
> >> farmhouses.
> 
> >And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to raise
> >a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically stop raising
> >at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major coastal cities
> -> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
> 
> I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9 millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters, or a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a minimum of 3 feet"?   

A book called The Flooded Earth by Peter Ward, an astrobiologist with NASA.  But there are lots of places on the net that quote similar numbers - 

https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/future.html#sealevel

https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_gregory13sbsta.pdf

--
John
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From jnn at synfin.org  Wed Apr 27 18:55:32 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:55:32 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
 <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>
Message-ID: <3DC35CE2-E43C-44BB-9DCA-457C84EA7FE8@synfin.org>




--
John
> On Apr 27, 2016, at 9:21 PM, John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:06 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
>> >> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the ruins of 
>> >> farmhouses.
>> 
>> >And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to raise
>> >a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically stop raising
>> >at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major coastal cities
>> -> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
>> 
>> I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9 millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters, or a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a minimum of 3 feet"?   
> 
> A book called The Flooded Earth by Peter Ward, an astrobiologist with NASA.  But there are lots of places on the net that quote similar numbers - 
> 
> https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/future.html#sealevel
> 
> https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_gregory13sbsta.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_sea_level

--
John

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 19:26:11 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:26:11 -0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <3DC35CE2-E43C-44BB-9DCA-457C84EA7FE8@synfin.org>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
 <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>
 <3DC35CE2-E43C-44BB-9DCA-457C84EA7FE8@synfin.org>
Message-ID: <57217480.08e0420a.96059.072b@mx.google.com>



	http://notrickszone.com/2011/02/16/a-level-look-at-sea-levels/

	But if you want to know how all this bullshit really works look
	at what the great grarpamp commented on the topic 

	"And if it takes lies and propaganda and regulation to stop
	that now...then so be it."

	The guy is clearly admitting that lies, propaganda and
	murdering psychos with guns, aka 'the state', are 'legitimate
	means' for the scammers/green nutcases like him and all the
	rest of the 'scientific' mafia to further their interests.

	






On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:55:32 -0400
John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> --
> John
> > On Apr 27, 2016, at 9:21 PM, John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:06 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> >> >> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the
> >> >> ruins of farmhouses.
> >> 
> >> >And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to
> >> >raise a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically
> >> >stop raising at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major
> >> >coastal cities
> >> -> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
> >> 
> >> I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9
> >> millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters, or
> >> a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a minimum of
> >> 3 feet"?   
> > 
> > A book called The Flooded Earth by Peter Ward, an astrobiologist
> > with NASA.  But there are lots of places on the net that quote
> > similar numbers - 
> > 
> > https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/future.html#sealevel
> > 
> > https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_gregory13sbsta.pdf
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_sea_level
> 
> --
> John
> 




From dan at geer.org  Wed Apr 27 20:30:18 2016
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:30:18 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:15:03 -0400."
 <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <20160428033018.977D0A06E5D@palinka.tinho.net>

 | Field tested cheat sheets on security oriented, low tech DIY hardware
 | mods are among the most subversive things that can be published on the
 | technical front. CPunks subscribers may or may not personally need those
 | docs for the Nameless Mission or Big Show in our lifetimes, but others
 | do need them now.


Yes.

I want to know how to kill the black box on a new car
so I can stop having to weld up the rust on my existing
24 year old ride.

--dan




From jnn at synfin.org  Wed Apr 27 21:35:03 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 00:35:03 -0400
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <57217480.08e0420a.96059.072b@mx.google.com>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
 <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>
 <3DC35CE2-E43C-44BB-9DCA-457C84EA7FE8@synfin.org>
 <57217480.08e0420a.96059.072b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0075056C-763F-473C-A301-9C0E86CC710B@synfin.org>

Denying anthropomorphic climate change is the last bastion of cranks, anti-science republicans and fundamentalist religious nuts who want to teach creationism in school and claim the earth is 6000 years old.

--
John

> On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:26 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>    http://notrickszone.com/2011/02/16/a-level-look-at-sea-levels/
> 
>    But if you want to know how all this bullshit really works look
>    at what the great grarpamp commented on the topic 
> 
>    "And if it takes lies and propaganda and regulation to stop
>    that now...then so be it."
> 
>    The guy is clearly admitting that lies, propaganda and
>    murdering psychos with guns, aka 'the state', are 'legitimate
>    means' for the scammers/green nutcases like him and all the
>    rest of the 'scientific' mafia to further their interests.
> 
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:55:32 -0400
> John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> John
>>>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 9:21 PM, John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:06 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the
>>>>>> ruins of farmhouses.
>>>> 
>>>>> And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to
>>>>> raise a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically
>>>>> stop raising at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major
>>>>> coastal cities
>>>> -> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
>>>> 
>>>> I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9
>>>> millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters, or
>>>> a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a minimum of
>>>> 3 feet"?   
>>> 
>>> A book called The Flooded Earth by Peter Ward, an astrobiologist
>>> with NASA.  But there are lots of places on the net that quote
>>> similar numbers - 
>>> 
>>> https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/future.html#sealevel
>>> 
>>> https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_gregory13sbsta.pdf
>> 
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_sea_level
>> 
>> --
>> John
> 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 22:09:50 2016
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (juan)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:09:50 -0300
Subject: Do you notice significant persistent change in climate?
In-Reply-To: <0075056C-763F-473C-A301-9C0E86CC710B@synfin.org>
References: <20160427114106.GA74243@synfin.org>
 <1615989055.3524107.1461787566678.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <221876FF-13BB-4464-A023-5367BBB30023@synfin.org>
 <3DC35CE2-E43C-44BB-9DCA-457C84EA7FE8@synfin.org>
 <57217480.08e0420a.96059.072b@mx.google.com>
 <0075056C-763F-473C-A301-9C0E86CC710B@synfin.org>
Message-ID: <57219adb.db42620a.b3df2.0ee6@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 00:35:03 -0400
John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:

> Denying anthropomorphic climate change is the last bastion of cranks,
> anti-science republicans and fundamentalist religious nuts who want
> to teach creationism in school and claim the earth is 6000 years old.


	Sure. It's quite funny though how some people fail to
	notice that green nutcases are just a mutation of religious
	nutcases. They are just as fanatical and narrow minded as bible
	thumpers. 

	Then again, 75% of americans believe in the bible. Taking that
	amount of brain damage into account. it is to be expected that
	they also believe in all sort of pseudo scientific
	'progressive' eco bullshit. 

	Also the fact that eco bullshit is 'good' for the 'green'
	sector of the world fascist-corporatist economy is not to be
	taken lightly. The eco nutcases are not as interested in saving
	the planet as in saving their own bank accounts. 

	I wonder how much polution the batteries used in
	tesla-garbage-cars generate...

	

 
> --
> John
> 
> > On Apr 27, 2016, at 10:26 PM, juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    http://notrickszone.com/2011/02/16/a-level-look-at-sea-levels/
> > 
> >    But if you want to know how all this bullshit really works look
> >    at what the great grarpamp commented on the topic 
> > 
> >    "And if it takes lies and propaganda and regulation to stop
> >    that now...then so be it."
> > 
> >    The guy is clearly admitting that lies, propaganda and
> >    murdering psychos with guns, aka 'the state', are 'legitimate
> >    means' for the scammers/green nutcases like him and all the
> >    rest of the 'scientific' mafia to further their interests.
> > 
> >    
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 21:55:32 -0400
> > John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> John
> >>>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 9:21 PM, John Newman <jnn at synfin.org> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:06 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:33:28AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> >>>>>> Yes, the glaciers in Iceland are retreating - to reveal the
> >>>>>> ruins of farmhouses.
> >>>> 
> >>>>> And while they melt they raise global sea levels, projected to
> >>>>> raise a minimum of ~3ft bt 2100.  And sea levels won't magically
> >>>>> stop raising at 2100. This spells fucking catastrophe for major
> >>>>> coastal cities
> >>>> -> e.g. New York, Miami, Bangkok, New Orleans, etc etc.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I've recently read that sea level is rising about 2.6-2.9
> >>>> millimeters per year.  in 84 years, that would be 0.231 meters,
> >>>> or a bit less than one half foot.  Where do you get the "a
> >>>> minimum of 3 feet"?   
> >>> 
> >>> A book called The Flooded Earth by Peter Ward, an astrobiologist
> >>> with NASA.  But there are lots of places on the net that quote
> >>> similar numbers - 
> >>> 
> >>> https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/science/future.html#sealevel
> >>> 
> >>> https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/unfccc/cop19/3_gregory13sbsta.pdf
> >> 
> >> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_sea_level
> >> 
> >> --
> >> John
> > 
> 




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 06:41:57 2016
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 09:41:57 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <20160428033018.977D0A06E5D@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
 <20160428033018.977D0A06E5D@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zeRwJFj+Af=punGCcQW21dFy8=oyCEyqBC9ByDKpTOLRg@mail.gmail.com>

I think there is not any single black box module component.

All of the things are 'storing data' 'all the time' 'intentionally logging'
'inadvertently logging' - then data are recovered from all available
(non-smoldering) modules.

-Travis

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 11:30 PM, <dan at geer.org> wrote:

>  | Field tested cheat sheets on security oriented, low tech DIY hardware
>  | mods are among the most subversive things that can be published on the
>  | technical front. CPunks subscribers may or may not personally need those
>  | docs for the Nameless Mission or Big Show in our lifetimes, but others
>  | do need them now.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> I want to know how to kill the black box on a new car
> so I can stop having to weld up the rust on my existing
> 24 year old ride.
>
> --dan
>
>


-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Thu Apr 28 09:16:33 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:16:33 -0400
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zeRwJFj+Af=punGCcQW21dFy8=oyCEyqBC9ByDKpTOLRg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
 <20160428033018.977D0A06E5D@palinka.tinho.net>
 <CAKtE3zeRwJFj+Af=punGCcQW21dFy8=oyCEyqBC9ByDKpTOLRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57223761.20202@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 04/28/2016 09:41 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> I think there is not any single black box module component.
> 
> All of the things are 'storing data' 'all the time' 'intentionally 
> logging' 'inadvertently logging' - then data are recovered from
> all available (non-smoldering) modules.

The "black box" in recently made motor vehicles is the Electronic
Control Module, a computer usually located under the dashboard on the
passenger side, right against the firewall.  It reads sensors and runs
servos throughout the engine, and stores diagnostic error messages
about same.  Today's version of a "racing cam" is a custom chip
installed in the ECM.  A modern automotive engine can not run with its
ECM disconnected.

The ECM also accepts inputs from the driver's controls, runs the
anti-lock braking servos, and controls dashboard readouts.  Some can
even drive the car, as Michael Hastings seems to have learned the hard
way.

In recent vehicles equipped with GPS, the receiver should normally be
integral to the ECM, as is the radio that makes push updates to ECM
software and/or hostile remote control of the vehicle possible.
Factory supported LoJack style security systems and RF door keys would
also be integral to the ECM.

Details will vary, but ECMs made by one manufacturer for all of its
vehicles are usually very similar to one another.  Maintenance manuals
relevant to the make, model and year of the vehicle in question will
"tell all" - or at least, tell enough - if you can access the right ones
.

Most paranoid motor vehicle end users (I almost said "owners," silly
me) would be quite happy with their ECM's functions, IF its radios
were silenced.  Once the physical components of those radios have been
identified, "let me count the ways" to disable them without killing
the vehicle.

And that's were a project digging out those details, doing
constructive sabotage and publishing the details and results in one
place for e-z user access seems like a good idea to me.

:o)



> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 11:30 PM, <dan at geer.org
> <mailto:dan at geer.org>> wrote:
> 
> | Field tested cheat sheets on security oriented, low tech DIY
> hardware | mods are among the most subversive things that can be
> published on the | technical front. CPunks subscribers may or may
> not personally need those | docs for the Nameless Mission or Big
> Show in our lifetimes, but others | do need them now.
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I want to know how to kill the black box on a new car so I can stop
> having to weld up the rust on my existing 24 year old ride.
> 
> --dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn 
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub 
> <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com 
> <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus 
> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 12:25:37 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:25:37 -0400
Subject: US Case: Infinite Jail Contempt for Disk Crypto, 5th Amndmnt, All
 Writs, FileVault, Freenet CHKs
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_wowZUKNZ_FX889297=_fuEfioTVFr-H1JWuve7Z=GWw@mail.gmail.com>

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/04/27/2357253/child-porn-suspect-jailed-indefinitely-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives
http://thehackernews.com/2016/04/decrypt-hard-drive.html
https://www.scribd.com/doc/310741233/Francis-Rawls-Case
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/child-porn-suspect-jailed-for-7-months-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives/

Amici Curiae by EFF and ACLU

A Philadelphia man suspected of possessing child pornography has been in
jail for seven months and counting after being found in contempt of a court
order demanding that he decrypt two password-protected hard drives. The
suspect, a former Philadelphia Police Department sergeant, has not been
charged with any child porn crimes. Instead, he remains indefinitely
imprisoned in Philadelphia's Federal Detention Center for refusing to
unlock two drives encrypted with Apple's FileVault software in a case that
once again highlights the extent to which the authorities are going to
crack encrypted devices. The man is to remain jailed "until such time that
he fully complies" with the decryption order. The government successfully
cited a 1789 law known as the All Writs Act to compel (PDF) the suspect
to decrypt two hard drives it believes contain child pornography. The All
Writs Act was the same law the Justice Department asserted in its legal
battle with Apple.




From ryacko at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 15:52:02 2016
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:52:02 -0700
Subject: Cryptome
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i1f0RTWaEXcyd-+r5CQzmuiR2KZCaycQoQTS4y-ZT7=og@mail.gmail.com>

What is Cryptome?

"Cryptome welcomes documents for publication that are prohibited by
governments worldwide, in particular material on freedom of
expression, privacy, cryptology, dual-use technologies, national
security, intelligence, and secret governance -- open, secret and
classified documents -- but not limited to those."

A trollish statement saying, "everything in short".

Cryptome insinuated that Protonmail is less secure after using an
israeli reverse proxy (
https://web.archive.org/web/20160318180805/https://cryptome.org/2015/11/protonmail-ddos.htm
). How is it less secure?

Protonmail's response:
https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/protonmail-israel-radware/

It says something if Fox News allowed a favorable AP report on
Cryptome on their website:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/09/older-less-flashy-than-wikileaks-cryptome-perseveres-as-favored-site-for.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20160329170005/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/07/cryptome_on_wikileaks/
John Young states that Wikileaks is a criminal organization for needing money.

Compare and contrast Cryptome and Wikileaks:
The Wau Holland Foundation collected $1.2 million for Wikileaks, and
later no longer could recieve donations from Paypal, while it's
charitable status was challenged and revoked by German authorities.

Cryptome is now a non-profit.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Thu Apr 28 16:38:36 2016
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:38:36 -0400
Subject: Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i1f0RTWaEXcyd-+r5CQzmuiR2KZCaycQoQTS4y-ZT7=og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1f0RTWaEXcyd-+r5CQzmuiR2KZCaycQoQTS4y-ZT7=og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57229EFC.701@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/28/2016 06:52 PM, Ryan Carboni wrote:

> What is Cryptome?

Well I guess everyone who has seen Cryptome has their own opinion.
And flags set at NSA & GHCQ for full take and indefinite retention.

Cryptome is a website maintained by John Young and Deborah Natsios,
who do whatever they damn well please.  Go and do ye likewise.

Cryptome is a public nuisance, perpetrated with malice aforethought
and no remorse.  I like that.

Cryptome is your gateway to true wisdom, perfect happiness, and
perpetual bliss.  If you don't see that, look harder.

If you disapprove of Cryptome, register a domain name, rent server
space and do something you do approve of. I will write a review.

Cryptome is somebody's obsessive hobby.  If you want heroes, go buy a
comic book.

Cryptome is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.  When a
monkey looks into it, no wise philosopher looks back.

(I could go on all day.)

:o)








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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 22:41:38 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 01:41:38 -0400
Subject: Sci-Hub: Who's Downloading Pirated Papers? EVERYONE.
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29Jk+7U1XEXc8+CccwdKXPcggUCKn001yPuLRACsj77mQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/whos-downloading-pirated-papers-everyone
To protect the privacy of Sci-Hub users, we agreed that she would
first aggregate users’ geographic locations to the nearest city using
data from Google Maps...

http://scihub22266oqcxt.onion/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 22:55:38 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 01:55:38 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] US Case: Infinite Jail Contempt for Disk Crypto, 5th
 Amndmnt, All Writs, FileVault, Freenet CHKs
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbJWMHJMWdo4r1tma3y8LZzRZ-2_J1Gih7t1eNXM7h9vuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_wowZUKNZ_FX889297=_fuEfioTVFr-H1JWuve7Z=GWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbJWMHJMWdo4r1tma3y8LZzRZ-2_J1Gih7t1eNXM7h9vuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29_VZsFU00BUV7eHX0XFsHpdYwMhm1+9AjXj44Rhfup7g@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/29/16, Александр <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In the 60's/70's it was "the communist threat/spying for the bloody
> russians", now it's "child porn/terrrrorism"... they change their masks
> (that always seem so "beautiful"), BUT they can't change their ugly faces.

The "distrust, spy on, and rat out your neighbor theme" is always popular,
be it for commies or whatever. A handful of years ago they recruited postal
workers for that role too. Now...

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/28/letter-details-fbi-plan-for-secretive-anti-radicalization-committees/
Of the plans put forward by the federal government to identify and
stop budding terrorists, among the least understood are the FBI’s
“Shared Responsibility Committees.”
The idea of the committees is to enlist counselors, social workers,
religious figures, and other community members to intervene with
people the FBI thinks are in danger of radicalizing — the sort of
alternative to prosecution and jail time many experts have been
clamoring for. But civil liberties groups worry the committees could
become just a ruse to expand the FBI’s network of informants, and the
government has refused to provide details about the program.
The Intercept has obtained a letter addressed to potential committee
members from the FBI...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 02:05:53 2016
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 05:05:53 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] Supreme Court Gives FBI More Hacking Power
In-Reply-To: <5722B982.6090407@cyblings.on.ca>
References: <5722B982.6090407@cyblings.on.ca>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29sHx4TVeeFJ0JrpwUeAccZ8+vTPMHr3p2M3C0kPF5dNg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/28/16, krishna e bera <keb at cyblings.on.ca> wrote:
> https://theintercept.com/2016/04/28/supreme-court-gives-fbi-more-hacking-power/
> http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/frcr16_8mad.pdf
https://www.justsecurity.org/15018/justice-department-proposal-massive-expand-fbi-extraterritorial-surveillance/

Among others commenting on the lists...

Rule 41(b)(6)
"a magistrate judge with authority in *any* district
where activities related to a crime *may* have
occurred has authority to issue a warrant..."

Note *emphasis*.

Perhaps missing from the article is that, similar to FISC / DC
situation, this seems to allow LEA / Prosecutors to now cozy all
these requests up to the friendliest court they can find (if they
speculate, when concealed, that the activities *may* in fact be in
that district [1]), rather than forcing distribution of requests
randomly across them all (similar to the old principle of local
jurisdiction... crimes originate randomly, are dealt with locally).

That would be bad... bad precedents, much stuff under seal ex parte
en camera rubberstamp etc.

[1] Without such speculation, while still concealed, they would
probably end up being lodged by location of lead investigative
entity (even FBI HQ), or by other elements of the case, such
as victim location.


https://www.accessnow.org/cms/assets/uploads/archive/docs/Rule41botnettestimony.pdf

Rule 41(b)(6)(B)
18 USC 1030(a)(5)
And remote access of hacked protected computers... that's huge
procedural change, and likely to be very sloppy and outright abused
for ages.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_judicial_district




From jnn at synfin.org  Fri Apr 29 04:11:16 2016
From: jnn at synfin.org (John Newman)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:11:16 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] US Case: Infinite Jail Contempt for Disk Crypto,
 5th Amndmnt, All Writs, FileVault, Freenet CHKs
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29_VZsFU00BUV7eHX0XFsHpdYwMhm1+9AjXj44Rhfup7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_wowZUKNZ_FX889297=_fuEfioTVFr-H1JWuve7Z=GWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbJWMHJMWdo4r1tma3y8LZzRZ-2_J1Gih7t1eNXM7h9vuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti29_VZsFU00BUV7eHX0XFsHpdYwMhm1+9AjXj44Rhfup7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0695524C-F359-4782-A7EE-3A859921810A@synfin.org>


> On Apr 29, 2016, at 1:55 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/29/16, Александр <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In the 60's/70's it was "the communist threat/spying for the bloody
>> russians", now it's "child porn/terrrrorism"... they change their masks
>> (that always seem so "beautiful"), BUT they can't change their ugly faces.
> 
> The "distrust, spy on, and rat out your neighbor theme" is always popular,
> be it for commies or whatever. A handful of years ago they recruited postal
> workers for that role too. Now...
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2016/04/28/letter-details-fbi-plan-for-secretive-anti-radicalization-committees/
> Of the plans put forward by the federal government to identify and
> stop budding terrorists, among the least understood are the FBI’s
> “Shared Responsibility Committees.”
> The idea of the committees is to enlist counselors, social workers,
> religious figures, and other community members to intervene with
> people the FBI thinks are in danger of radicalizing — the sort of
> alternative to prosecution and jail time many experts have been
> clamoring for. But civil liberties groups worry the committees could
> become just a ruse to expand the FBI’s network of informants, and the
> government has refused to provide details about the program.
> The Intercept has obtained a letter addressed to potential committee
> members from the FBI...
> 

This sounds exactly like how the inform-on-your-neighbor
system worked in Stalinist regimes and in fascist Germany 
before that. There were never enough actual secret police
to keep an eye on everyone - the system relied on the
willingness of average citizens to vociferously out their neighbors
and friends who may have spoken or implied a line of thought
outside the state approved ideology.


--
John




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 21:36:10 2016
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:36:10 +0300
Subject: [tor-talk] US Case: Infinite Jail Contempt for Disk Crypto, 5th
 Amndmnt, All Writs, FileVault, Freenet CHKs
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_wowZUKNZ_FX889297=_fuEfioTVFr-H1JWuve7Z=GWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_wowZUKNZ_FX889297=_fuEfioTVFr-H1JWuve7Z=GWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbJWMHJMWdo4r1tma3y8LZzRZ-2_J1Gih7t1eNXM7h9vuA@mail.gmail.com>

2016-04-28 22:25 GMT+03:00 grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>:

>
> https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/04/27/2357253/child-porn-suspect-jailed-indefinitely-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives
> http://thehackernews.com/2016/04/decrypt-hard-drive.html
> https://www.scribd.com/doc/310741233/Francis-Rawls-Case
>
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/child-porn-suspect-jailed-for-7-months-for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives/
> >
> ​
>

​
In the 60's/70's it was "the communist threat/spying for the bloody
russians", now it's "child porn/terrrrorism"... they change their masks
(that always seem so "beautiful"), BUT they can't change their ugly faces.

As to the crypto theme - we knew from the beginning of all this shit about
pseudo war on terror/pedophiles -vs- privacy -> that this is what gonna
happen. And that's only the beginning.
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From charles.paul at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 16:01:36 2016
From: charles.paul at gmail.com (Chrrles Paul)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:01:36 +0900
Subject: Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i1f0RTWaEXcyd-+r5CQzmuiR2KZCaycQoQTS4y-ZT7=og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1f0RTWaEXcyd-+r5CQzmuiR2KZCaycQoQTS4y-ZT7=og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG2tq=QWDas5H0B-4dgZaJXshK5xe0bUEMXKkG8i100qwTeJUA@mail.gmail.com>

What *specifically* are you insinuating?



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is Cryptome?
>
> "Cryptome welcomes documents for publication that are prohibited by
> governments worldwide, in particular material on freedom of
> expression, privacy, cryptology, dual-use technologies, national
> security, intelligence, and secret governance -- open, secret and
> classified documents -- but not limited to those."
>
> A trollish statement saying, "everything in short"....
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Apr 29 07:47:17 2016
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 17:47:17 +0300
Subject: Needs more hardware hacking dox
In-Reply-To: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
References: <572101A7.3010402@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <20160429144717.GA680@sivokote.iziade.m$>

> How many lusers put tape over their laptop camera lens, but neglect to
> cut the pins on the microphone?  How many people even know their shiny

Wouldn't this kill the main functionality of the hardware (smart) phone?

OT: is enough tinfoil around hardware good enough Faraday cage? ;)




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Fri Apr 29 11:29:02 2016
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:29:02 +0000
Subject: Somebody logged into Telegram accounts of some Russian opposition
 activists
Message-ID: <5723A7EE.701@openmailbox.org>

Russian activists Georgy Alburov (member of Anti-corruption Foundation)
and Oleg Kozlovsky (member of Solidarnost movement) found their Telegram
accounts accessed from same NY IP address 162.247.72.27 (which is Tor
exit relay running by The Calyx Institute
https://globe.torproject.org/#/relay/6C143720FFF8469EF6A5C5B4066366340CF6C0D1
) using telegram-cli. They did not have two-factor authentication
enabled (Telegram by default uses one-time passwords received by SMS,
but you can also enable "two-factor authentication" which is asking a
password when you try to login with new device) and they didn't received
the SMS message, so it's looks like SS7 attack. Russian government known
for it's exploiting SS7 vulnerabilities (and those are not really
vulnerabilities which can be easily fixed, those vuls exists because SS7
was designed that way).

MTS, telecom provider used by Alburov and Kozlovsky, commented that SMS
receiving was disabled on their accounts for some time.

I also have some evidence that Russian authorities uses same method for
logging into Facebook accounts (Facebook also have a feature called
"one-time password" https://www.facebook.com/help/447046021986895 which
allows to send SMS with text "otp" to Facebook number and receive a code
which is enough to login into Facebook).

SS7 designed such way so this is not required for attacked to be in same
country as you. It's not required for your telecom provider to
cooperate. All you need is an access to SS7. Security services have it,
private spies have it, and you can have it: there is plenty of companies
selling SS7 access.

So if you use Telegram, enable two-factor authentification.

If you use Facebook, turn on login approvals
https://www.facebook.com/help/148233965247823

If you using any service which allows you to login just with code
received by SMS, find out a way to turn off this or stop using this service.

If you thinking about such feature in your service, please don't do so.

See also:

News report
https://meduza.io/news/2016/04/29/aktivisty-oppozitsii-pozhalovalis-na-vzlom-telegram-s-odnogo-ip-adresa
(in Russian)

Kozlovsky's post with details received from MTS
https://www.facebook.com/kozlovsky/posts/10208948934790884 (in Russian)

The Critical Hole at the Heart of Our Cell Phone Networks
https://www.wired.com/2016/04/the-critical-hole-at-the-heart-of-cell-phone-infrastructure/
which covers some previous SS7 attacks by Russian govt and SS7 design

SS7: Locate. Track. Manipulate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0I5tl0YLY great talk by Tobias Engel
on 31c3 about SS7

SS7map https://ss7map.p1sec.com map covering SS7 issues

-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc