From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 07:55:39 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:55:39 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <20150901100841.GA3854@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150901100841.GA3854@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QdCQnZPayuFJPvu0guuK7Vv3KTUeYbj6MGBMJe35AnOw@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/1/15, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> ...
> They protect against trojanized (off the shelf) BIOS.

prevents trojan / arb exec from persistence via BIOS.

prevents surreptitious FDE keylogger via BIOS hooks.

yes, also off the shelf attacks. which is nearly all of them. :)
 [ see also HackingTeam dump, and research examples ]



> If an adversary has sufficient supply of application and
> root sploits, how much they will protect you?

separate question; see also defense in depth.

however, a robust bespoke BIOS beats otherwise cascade catastrophe.



> Instead of rootkit they will root you every boot IMHO.

this also has a different visibility, as executing in priv. or user
context & addr space.

also why "throw away" VMs per Qubes or Live OS images a useful
technique to avoid attempted persistence via weird machines gone
rogue...


best regards,




From blibbet at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 08:43:25 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:43:25 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>



On 08/31/2015 07:33 PM, coderman wrote:
> On 8/31/15, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> Potential insecurely-built IBM system firmware security aside, I don't
>> think Libreboot nor SeaBIOS offers much in terms of security to stop
>> attackers, as well.
>
> building your own BIOS images, signing your own bootstraps, is "not
offer much"?
>
> you're wrong and these are incredibly useful security measures.
>
> of course by no means sufficient by themselves, and you must always
> keep your laptops/devices safe with you, lest they be implanted by
> trivial means with physical access.

I merely meant that BIOS didn't offer new security tech, that newer
firmware tech does. My point was that Verified coreboot is stronger than
Libreboot, and Ministry of Freedom could be using stronger open source
tech in their product than they currently do. Eg, coreboot has Verified
Boot mode, which is roughly like UEFI's Secure Boot, and can help
protect the a blob-free system more than just Libreboot.

Yes, building your own code is great, if you're able to do so. Building
a stock BIOS with no security is great, but a stock BIOS won't stop
attackers. Users should not have to rebuild their refurbished firmware
to make it better, the vendor should offer that.

Fear of blobs is one thing, fear of firmware attacks are another. Blobs
are a great place for malware to hide, so there is an obvious
relationship, but some freedom/privacy-loving users often seem to only
focus on getting rid of blobs, and not pay much attention to the
security of their firmware.  My concern about Purism is that they'll
disable enough security features to reduce the amount of FSP blobs such
that the system is more attractive to attackers than normal PCs.

Having an ancient laptop may help. Attackers may not be able to use
CHIPSEC's HAL, that's the positive side of not being able to use CHIPSEC
to test your defenses. :-) But there are alternatives to CHIPSEC's HAL,
and they're less strict about chipsec support, and will likely work on
old Thinkpads.

Recently someone ported a modern ARM-based Chromebook (ASUS C201, Veyron
Speedy) to use Libreboot, w/o blobs. That's another alternative to old
x86 systems, with different attacks. I'm not sure what's safer, ARM or
x86 these days. x86 BIOS/UEFI attackers are well-documented by
researchers, but ARM-based ones are less so, AFAICT. I'm unclear what's
safer from attackers, an old x86, or a modern ARM or AMD system.
http://firmwaresecurity.com/2015/08/13/libreboot-ported-to-modern-arm-chromebook/

Blob-free and secure, that's my goal. BIOS -- even Libreboot's SeaBIOS
-- is not secure.

Thanks,
Lee
RSS: http://firmwaresecurity.com/feed




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 10:03:14 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:03:14 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SzVkZFyCed30FRx=vtO0ESf_e5dZEgFmV91T=Y4s0NBg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/1/15, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> I merely meant that BIOS didn't offer new security tech, that newer
> firmware tech does. My point was that Verified coreboot is stronger than
> Libreboot, and Ministry of Freedom could be using stronger open source
> tech in their product than they currently do. Eg, coreboot has Verified
> Boot mode, which is roughly like UEFI's Secure Boot, and can help
> protect the a blob-free system more than just Libreboot.

thank you for the clarification :)



> ... Users should not have to rebuild their refurbished firmware
> to make it better, the vendor should offer that.

you've got my vote ;)



> Recently someone ported a modern ARM-based Chromebook (ASUS C201, Veyron
> Speedy) to use Libreboot, w/o blobs. That's another alternative to old
> x86 systems, with different attacks. I'm not sure what's safer, ARM or
> x86 these days. x86 BIOS/UEFI attackers are well-documented by
> researchers, but ARM-based ones are less so, AFAICT. I'm unclear what's
> safer from attackers, an old x86, or a modern ARM or AMD system.
> http://firmwaresecurity.com/2015/08/13/libreboot-ported-to-modern-arm-chromebook/

it appears nothing is safe, and the effort is trivial to modest. #infosec



> Blob-free and secure, that's my goal. BIOS -- even Libreboot's SeaBIOS
> -- is not secure.

this reminds me of the open hardware processor designs; yes - it is
open!  but, it lacks modern security features to assist operating
system and application developers securing their systems...


fun problems :)


best regards,




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep  1 03:08:41 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 13:08:41 +0300
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150901100841.GA3854@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 07:33:24PM -0700, coderman wrote:
> 
> building your own BIOS images, signing your own bootstraps, is "not offer much"?
> 
> you're wrong and these are incredibly useful security measures.
>

They protect against trojanized (off the shelf) BIOS.

If an adversary has sufficient supply of application and
root sploits, how much they will protect you?

Instead of rootkit they will root you every boot IMHO.




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep  1 23:58:56 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 09:58:56 +0300
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SzVkZFyCed30FRx=vtO0ESf_e5dZEgFmV91T=Y4s0NBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SzVkZFyCed30FRx=vtO0ESf_e5dZEgFmV91T=Y4s0NBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150902065856.GA2494@sivokote.iziade.m$>

> 
> it appears nothing is safe, and the effort is trivial to modest. #infosec
>

That was my point.

For the other msg, there are bugs in virtualization software
too.





From dal at riseup.net  Wed Sep  2 18:28:32 2015
From: dal at riseup.net (Douglas Lucas)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 20:28:32 -0500
Subject: Article by me on B. Brown transcript
Message-ID: <55E7A240.9000706@riseup.net>

Hi cypherpunks,

I obtained the transcript to journalist Barrett Brown's second and final
sentencing hearing and wrote an article on it. The lengthy article is
all about the right to link.

Here's the article:
http://revolution-news.com/barrett-brown-vs-the-dept-of-justice-defining-the-right-to-link/

Here's the transcript (PDF):
http://douglaslucas.com/files/BBLOL_Transcript_January_Sentencing.pdf

Thanks,

Douglas




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 22:51:51 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 22:51:51 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <20150902065856.GA2494@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SzVkZFyCed30FRx=vtO0ESf_e5dZEgFmV91T=Y4s0NBg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150902065856.GA2494@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TbU92KO37yD9BhN1B_qFhknvdrDpn2Wke9swSxwU6Bjg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/1/15, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>>
>> it appears nothing is safe, and the effort is trivial to modest. #infosec
>>
>
> That was my point.


what's funny is this leads to security advantage through obscurity,
where the bespoke solutions break off-the-shelf exploitation
techniques.

this delay between failed attempt and success, or simply failed
attempt and plan B, used to provide early warning and feedback.

what a world we live in!


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 23:03:55 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 23:03:55 -0700
Subject: [tor-relays] clarification on what Utah State University exit
 relays store ("360 gigs of log files")
In-Reply-To: <55E76428.7070109@teamsammut.com>
References: <55C59BBA.2020700@openmailbox.org>
 <CAD2Ti2963Oiin8ZWdR5Pc4RrmEfteN2X0MtBAUMdQ6uQuPm1jA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAd2PDJSmAR8UBLa62yzQTd4tF9S46q2cZgH0ErxtOyYH531Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <1439101342-sup-8277@metis.syd1.tesser.org>
 <20150812234512.GE2384@torproject.org>
 <CAD2Ti28+=dSmwqe_ZtJSDMZ1N-AJ5Lp=5OA6HpNHakhfwe1uMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150813074017.GF2384@torproject.org>
 <CAD2Ti2_0JFRw7NBhXUL2J6P7vpmjPE-sxN_Jb6=Z6YGpiB=qPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150821043032.GB5822@torproject.org>
 <55E76428.7070109@teamsammut.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QSFJXb0vkMAf7AdAEGuH9K0QPnREC4oWyrzYqPyAKV3g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/2/15, Tim Sammut <tim at teamsammut.com> wrote:
> ...
>  - Cisco IOS (and likely other platforms) will immediately export flows
>    if the cache fills to capacity. This will result in flows being
>    exported in less than inactive timeout,..

there is a second limit here, which is the netflow channel capacity /
storage limit, if you introduce simulated flows at a rate beyond this
capacity, you may become unobservable (via loss) resulting in failure
to correlate.

this is why i asked about logical injection via userspace of billions
of flows per minute as a resistance measure. (e.g. scapy or other raw
inject across a border with cooperating peer, if needed.)


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 08:31:06 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:31:06 -0400
Subject: [tor-relays] clarification on what Utah State University exit
 relays store ("360 gigs of log files")
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QSFJXb0vkMAf7AdAEGuH9K0QPnREC4oWyrzYqPyAKV3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55C59BBA.2020700@openmailbox.org>
 <CAD2Ti2963Oiin8ZWdR5Pc4RrmEfteN2X0MtBAUMdQ6uQuPm1jA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAd2PDJSmAR8UBLa62yzQTd4tF9S46q2cZgH0ErxtOyYH531Ww@mail.gmail.com>
 <1439101342-sup-8277@metis.syd1.tesser.org>
 <20150812234512.GE2384@torproject.org>
 <CAD2Ti28+=dSmwqe_ZtJSDMZ1N-AJ5Lp=5OA6HpNHakhfwe1uMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150813074017.GF2384@torproject.org>
 <CAD2Ti2_0JFRw7NBhXUL2J6P7vpmjPE-sxN_Jb6=Z6YGpiB=qPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150821043032.GB5822@torproject.org> <55E76428.7070109@teamsammut.com>
 <CAJVRA1QSFJXb0vkMAf7AdAEGuH9K0QPnREC4oWyrzYqPyAKV3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-DwJYTeD6fhBcFBV0sjo+eCWUK-0UgEE4ZqGM_XtQCVw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:03 AM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> there is a second limit here, which is the netflow channel capacity /
> storage limit, if you introduce simulated flows at a rate beyond this
> capacity, you may become unobservable (via loss) resulting in failure
> to correlate.

I've seen ISP saturate their own backbone with netflow during nice
UDP DoS, collectors had to be hung off local router ports after that.

> this is why i asked about logical injection via userspace of billions
> of flows per minute as a resistance measure. (e.g. scapy or other raw
> inject across a border with cooperating peer, if needed.)

If the collector is not protected you can inject bogus flows,
implicate your neighbor and fill disks.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Thu Sep  3 04:59:11 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:59:11 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

One saving grace about RFC 2631 was that it was pretty much universally
ignored for the reason that it was, well, a pretty stupid way to do things, so
the number of affected implementations would be approximately zero.

(I only know of one, rather minor, vendor who implemented it.  Microsoft
implemented it in receive-only mode solely so that they couldn't be accused of
being non-standards-compliant, but I'd be very surprised if there was anything
still around that supported it.  For starters you'd need to be able to find a
CA that could issue you a DH certificate...).

Peter.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Thu Sep  3 06:33:48 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:33:48 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150903133004.GB2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>,
 <20150903133004.GB2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0566@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> writes:

>Anyway, I would appreciate if someone checks if current implementations
>accept composite $q$.

Well, I think the problem will be finding any implementation of this at all,
or at least any that's still around now.

>What do you mean by DH certificate?

The static DH parameters need to be turned into a certificate by a CA.  I
don't know of any public CA that can issue these.

Peter.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Thu Sep  3 06:42:24 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:42:24 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150903133823.GC2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150903133004.GB2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0566@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>,
 <20150903133823.GC2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0585@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> writes:

>Well openessl appears to support dhparam:
>https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/apps/dhparam.html

That just indicates support for PKCS #3 DH parameters, not anything else.  In
any case the page also says:

  OpenSSL currently only supports the older PKCS#3 DH, not the newer X9.42 DH.

so that explicitly precludes using it in certs, even if code elsewhere would
support such usage.

I've gone through my (sizeable) cert collection and found a single example of
X9.42 certs, created by a USG contracting company paid to develop the code for
this and dating from 1996.  The certs are signed with a test DSA key, and
contain a number of errors (zero-length fields, the DH key is marked as a CA
signing key, etc).

Peter.




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep  3 04:27:21 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:27:21 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
Message-ID: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement Method

I am n00b at crypto so this might not make any sense.

In DH, if one can select group parameters (g,q,p) he can break both parties
private very fast time IMHO.

The RFC:  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2631

The main problem appears:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2631#section-2.2.2

2.2.2.  Group Parameter Validation
   The ASN.1 for DH keys in [PKIX] includes elements j and validation-
   Parms which MAY be used by recipients of a key to verify that the
   group parameters were correctly generated. Two checks are possible:

     1. Verify that p=qj + 1. This demonstrates that the parameters meet
        the X9.42 parameter criteria.
     2. Verify that when the p,q generation procedure of [FIPS-186]
        Appendix 2 is followed with seed 'seed', that p is found when
        'counter' = pgenCounter.


The main problem appears MAY.

As I read it, implementation MAY NOT verify it.

Sketch of the attack:

Chose $q$ product of small primes $p_i$.

Solve the discrete logarithm modulo $p_i$ for the public keys.

Apply the Chinese remainder theorem to get the privates keys.

(This is well known method for DL and for this reason
the group order must be prime [160 bits ;)]).

Would be interested how implementations implement this MAY.

Let me know if there is better list for this.

-- 
georgi




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Thu Sep  3 08:38:23 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:38:23 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150903150801.GD2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>,
 <20150903150801.GD2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF1DA5@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> writes:

>Even if "affected implementations would be approximately zero",
>can we count this as "crypto backdoored RFC" as per OP?

Oh sure, it's definitely broken.  OTOH I'm not sure if it's a deliberate
backdoor, the whole thing is such a bad design to begin with that something
like this is really just the icing on the cake.

It may be worth submitting an erratum to the RFC that mentions the problem,
just in case anyone is actually crazy enough to want to implement this in the
future.

Peter.




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep  3 06:30:04 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:30:04 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150903133004.GB2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 11:59:11AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> One saving grace about RFC 2631 was that it was pretty much universally
> ignored for the reason that it was, well, a pretty stupid way to do things, so
> the number of affected implementations would be approximately zero.
> 

Anyway, I would appreciate if someone checks if current implementations
accept composite $q$.


> (I only know of one, rather minor, vendor who implemented it.  Microsoft
> implemented it in receive-only mode solely so that they couldn't be accused of
> being non-standards-compliant, but I'd be very surprised if there was anything
> still around that supported it.  For starters you'd need to be able to find a
> CA that could issue you a DH certificate...).
> 

What do you mean by DH certificate?

Can DH sign?

> Peter.




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep  3 06:38:23 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 16:38:23 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0566@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150903133004.GB2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0566@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150903133823.GC2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 01:33:48PM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> writes:
> 
> >Anyway, I would appreciate if someone checks if current implementations
> >accept composite $q$.
> 
> Well, I think the problem will be finding any implementation of this at all,
> or at least any that's still around now.
> 
> >What do you mean by DH certificate?
> 
> The static DH parameters need to be turned into a certificate by a CA.  I
> don't know of any public CA that can issue these.
> 
> Peter.

Well openessl appears to support dhparam:
https://www.openssl.org/docs/manmaster/apps/dhparam.html

(maybe one needs to patch the source).

Maybe the same approach will work for DSA.




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep  3 08:08:01 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 18:08:01 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150903150801.GD2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 11:59:11AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> One saving grace about RFC 2631 was that it was pretty much universally
> ignored for the reason that it was, well, a pretty stupid way to do things, so
> the number of affected implementations would be approximately zero.
>

Even if "affected implementations would be approximately zero",
can we count this as "crypto backdoored RFC" as per OP?




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep  4 01:26:05 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:26:05 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 03, 2015 at 11:59:11AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> the number of affected implementations would be approximately zero.
>

openssl's DSA appears to check primality of q.

Attached are pub and private key with q composite
(beware the private key might not be generated correctly).

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-------------- next part --------------
-----BEGIN PUBLIC KEY-----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==
-----END PUBLIC KEY-----

From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep  4 04:34:37 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 14:34:37 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 11:26:05AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> openssl's DSA appears to check primality of q.
>

This almost sure is wrong.

openssl's DSA verify/sign don't check the primality of $q$.

tested on openssl 1.0.1g (I know it is old).

Got hurt by this backdoor:
	i = BN_num_bits(dsa->q);
	/* fips 186-3 allows only different sizes for q */
	if (i != 160 && i != 224 && i != 256)
	{
			DSAerr(DSA_F_DSA_DO_VERIFY,DSA_R_BAD_Q_VALUE);
			return -1;
											}
											

Attached are private and private keys, with $q$ composite
and equal to: 604462909807314587353111 * 1208925819614629174706189

Session with 1.0.1g:

fuuu:cp /tmp/key-comp2.* .
fuuu:echo "fuck" > foo.txt
fuuu:./apps/openssl dgst -dss1 -sign key-comp2.key foo.txt > sigfile.bin
fuuu:./apps/openssl dgst -verify key-comp2.pub -signature sigfile.bin
foo.txt 
Verified OK

Cheers,
-- 
georgi
-------------- next part --------------
-----BEGIN PUBLIC KEY-----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-----END PUBLIC KEY-----
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep  4 05:08:16 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 15:08:16 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 02:34:37PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> tested on openssl 1.0.1g (I know it is old).
>

Same on latest openssl-1.0.1p.




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 23:37:09 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 06:37:09 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 5:28 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
> This works with openssl 1.0.1p over SSL.
>
> Attached is self signed cert and the priv. key.
>
> Session:
>  ./apps/openssl s_server -accept 8080 -cert ./cacert2.pem -key
>  ./key-comp2.key -HTTP
>
>  openssl s_client -connect localhost:8080
>
>  Server public key is 1204 bit
>  Verify return code: 18 (self signed certificate)
>
>
>  sage: q=0x008000000000000000001d8000000000000000012b
>  sage: factor(q)
>  604462909807314587353111 * 1208925819614629174706189

Georgi,

just a quick note to thank you for sharing your research and taking
time to verify your findings against OpenSSL.

I've been researching cryptographic backdoors -- you may want to
review this http://illusoryTLS.com/ -- and the lack of checks on group
parameters, malicious or otherwise (*), is to me yet another cause for
concern. Great catch!

(*) It would be interesting to look at the story of RFC-2631, as
Bernstein, Lange, and Niederhagen did for the Dual EC standard
https://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:41:11 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 07:41:11 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 06:37:09AM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
>>
>> (*) It would be interesting to look at the story of RFC-2631, as
>> Bernstein, Lange, and Niederhagen did for the Dual EC standard
>> https://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/
>>
>
> 2631 is on wikipedia's page for DH.

Sure, the questions are: What is the origin of the current wording of
the standard, that opens an avenue for lax checks for group
parameters? Or, if, as you correctly pointed out, an implementation
MAY NOT check group parameters, which entity deserves credit for it?

Interestingly, a review of revisions (using rfcdiff) shows that the
current wording was introduced in draft #1 of draft-ietf-smime-x942
https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?difftype=--hwdiff&url2=draft-ietf-smime-x942-01.txt.
This is dated October 1998. Yet, it is still not clear if the diff is
to be attributed to Rescorla, or any other contributor to the this
standardization effort.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 01:10:50 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 08:10:50 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905080732.GE2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905080732.GE2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPCrMhJYfc0cy2vKBDXSiVCR5e7BVVxyDYgQrrQB0fGNtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
> IMHO I haven't demonstrated attack against DH yet
> (believe it is possible).
>
> The current examples are against DSA, not DH.

Correct. I have the same feeling. I hope further research will prove
both to be wrong about this.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep  4 22:28:03 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 08:28:03 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 03:08:16PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 04, 2015 at 02:34:37PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > tested on openssl 1.0.1g (I know it is old).
> >
> 
> Same on latest openssl-1.0.1p.

This works with openssl 1.0.1p over SSL.

Attached is self signed cert and the priv. key.

Session:
 ./apps/openssl s_server -accept 8080 -cert ./cacert2.pem -key
 ./key-comp2.key -HTTP

 openssl s_client -connect localhost:8080

 Server public key is 1204 bit
 Verify return code: 18 (self signed certificate)


 sage: q=0x008000000000000000001d8000000000000000012b
 sage: factor(q)
 604462909807314587353111 * 1208925819614629174706189


-------------- next part --------------
-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----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-----END CERTIFICATE-----
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 00:07:49 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:07:49 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 06:37:09AM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> 
> (*) It would be interesting to look at the story of RFC-2631, as
> Bernstein, Lange, and Niederhagen did for the Dual EC standard
> https://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/
>

2631 is on wikipedia's page for DH.

Another concern for backdoor is the FIPS in this thread,
which requires small subgroup (as low as 160 bits).

Having in mind for generic primes DL is subexponential
(IIRC something like GNFS), the complexity of DL in
small subgroup is questionable.

Just to note so far this thread questions:

1. DH's RFC
2. DSA as implemented by openssl
3. FIPS requiring small subgroup.

-- 
georgi




From natanael.l at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 01:17:45 2015
From: natanael.l at gmail.com (Natanael)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:17:45 +0200
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905080439.GD2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905080439.GD2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAAt2M19LN-tozUwgic3tH8vjDz_CCYceVJ9dbCefsepS2SDt=g@mail.gmail.com>

Metzdowd & randombit's respective crypto mailing lists, crypto practicum
(smaller), reddit's /r/crypto forum (I'm a mod there). They're all open to
noobs that are willing to learn (but keep in mind that staying on topic and
succinct is a bit more important on the mailing lists, in particular
metzdowd apply premoderation with formatting requirements).

- Sent from my tablet
Den 5 sep 2015 10:05 skrev "Georgi Guninski" <guninski at guninski.com>:

> Blogged about this:
>
> https://j.ludost.net/blog/archives/2015/09/05/rfc-2631_fips_186-3_and_openssls_implementation_of_dsa_appear_broken_and_possibly_backdoored/index.html#top
>
> Is there better forum for this, some crypto list for noobs?
>
> Have reliable key generation, but even the current key is
> weak enough IMHO (it is about O(2^40) ).
>
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 01:04:39 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:04:39 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150905080439.GD2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Blogged about this:
https://j.ludost.net/blog/archives/2015/09/05/rfc-2631_fips_186-3_and_openssls_implementation_of_dsa_appear_broken_and_possibly_backdoored/index.html#top

Is there better forum for this, some crypto list for noobs?

Have reliable key generation, but even the current key is
weak enough IMHO (it is about O(2^40) ).




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 01:07:32 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:07:32 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905080732.GE2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 07:41:11AM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> Sure, the questions are: What is the origin of the current wording of
> the standard, that opens an avenue for lax checks for group
> parameters? Or, if, as you correctly pointed out, an implementation
> MAY NOT check group parameters, which entity deserves credit for it?
>

IMHO I haven't demonstrated attack against DH yet
(believe it is possible).

The current examples are against DSA, not DH.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 01:42:49 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:42:49 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CAAt2M19LN-tozUwgic3tH8vjDz_CCYceVJ9dbCefsepS2SDt=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905080439.GD2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAAt2M19LN-tozUwgic3tH8vjDz_CCYceVJ9dbCefsepS2SDt=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905084249.GF2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 10:17:45AM +0200, Natanael wrote:
> Metzdowd & randombit's respective crypto mailing lists, crypto practicum
> (smaller), reddit's /r/crypto forum (I'm a mod there). They're all open to
> noobs that are willing to learn (but keep in mind that staying on topic and
> succinct is a bit more important on the mailing lists, in particular
> metzdowd apply premoderation with formatting requirements).
> 
> - Sent from my tablet

Thanks. Maybe will spam some of these later.

If someone spams before me, please let me know.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sat Sep  5 04:45:07 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:45:07 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>,
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Alfonso De Gregorio <alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com> writes:

>Sure, the questions are: What is the origin of the current wording of the
>standard, that opens an avenue for lax checks for group parameters? Or, if,
>as you correctly pointed out, an implementation MAY NOT check group
>parameters, which entity deserves credit for it?

You need to go back to the original source of all the DLP stuff, which is DSA
/ FIPS 186.  Now that didn't require any validation of anything until FIPS
186-3 came along in June 2009, and that in turn points to SP 800-89, which has
a section 4 "Assurance of Domain Parameter Validity".  This one gets really
complicated because you can get the domain parameters from all over the place
(generated yourself, provided for you by a third party, found at the bottom of
a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door
saying 'Beware of the Leopard', ...).

So if you generate them yourself, you're OK.  If you get them from a CA then
you don't need to care because if the CA wants to attack you then they can
just issue a forged cert in your name and don't need to worry about
backdooring the params (in any case using shared params is a bad idea because
they allow forgery of signatures on certificates. Suppose that the certificate
contains a copy of the certificate signer's DSA parameters, and the verifier
of the certificate has a copy of the signer's public key but not the signer's
DSA parameters (which are shared with other keys). If the verifier uses the
DSA parameters from the certificate along with the signer's public key to
verify the signature on the certificate, then an attacker can create bogus
certificates by choosing a random u and finding its inverse v modulo q (uv is
congruent to 1 modulo q).  Then take the certificate signer's public key g^x
and compute g' = (g^x)^u. Then g'^v = g^x.  Using the DSA parameters p, q, g',
the signer's public key corresponds to the private key v, which the attacker
knows.  The attacker can then create a bogus certificate, put parameters (p,
q, g') in it, and sign it with the DSA private key v to create an apparently
valid certificate).

Finally, if you get them from the disused lavatory then you deserve everything
you get^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFIPS 186-3 has validation requirements that use the
optional j and seed parameters, but I've never seen them used anywhere so even
though the validation requirements exist, you can't apply them.

The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some
experimental code from the 1990s, which also encoded the j/seed values)
generate all the parameters themselves, it's not like ECDSA where everyone
ends up using some shared values that a "trusted" external party provides
them.

Peter.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 03:07:31 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 13:07:31 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150905100731.GG2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 08:28:03AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> This works with openssl 1.0.1p over SSL.
> 
> Attached is self signed cert and the priv. key.
> 
> Session:
>  ./apps/openssl s_server -accept 8080 -cert ./cacert2.pem -key
>  ./key-comp2.key -HTTP
> 
>  openssl s_client -connect localhost:8080
> 
>  Server public key is 1204 bit
>  Verify return code: 18 (self signed certificate)
> 
> 
>  sage: q=0x008000000000000000001d8000000000000000012b
>  sage: factor(q)
>  604462909807314587353111 * 1208925819614629174706189
>

Troll friendly :))))

This appears to work on libressl-2.2.3 too.

Independent verification will be appreciated.

Hi Theo :P

-- 
georgi




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 06:41:23 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 13:41:23 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
> If you feel like debugging RFC, start from:
>
> RFC:  2119
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119#section-5
> 5. MAY   This word, or the adjective "OPTIONAL", mean that an item is
> truly optional.
>
> This includes many backdoors per lack of formalism.
>
> IMHO RFC must use only MUST or "MUST NOT" to make
> the ``formal model'' soundly defined (recursively RFC compliant).

While I sympathize with your point of view, and while I would welcome
a full equivalence of implementations, exclusivity of mandatory
requirements is neither a principle governing today's standardization
works, nor, sure enough, a principle that guided the standardization
of protocols back in the 1990s.

The key words defined in RFC 2119 reflect one one or any combinations
of the following:
  * A robustness principle, codified in the Postel's Law;
  * Economic interests at stake;
  * Understanding of the subject matter.

Today our community has finally reconsidered the principle that,
asking designers to "[b]e conservative in what [they] send, [but] be
liberal in what [they] accept", promised robustness on the internet.
But the incentives are still the same; interoperability and security
are always in tension.

It is worth to note that, yesterday as today, we need a better
understanding of the subject matter. It should have been obvious that
a validation of group parameters has security implications. And, just
like any and all security relevant requirements, it should have been
made a mandatory check.

I second Peter's recommendation; consider filing an erratum.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 07:06:22 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 14:06:22 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>> The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
>> generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some
>
> What about MITM in DH -- where do you get the keys from
> in this case?

A key-recovery attack may allow the retroactive decryption of past
communication sessions, if the network endpoints rely on fixed
Diffie-Hellman. Of course, whenever an attacker can successfully mount
a MITM attack the current sessions are compromised.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 07:41:51 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 14:41:51 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 02:06:22PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>> >> The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
>> >> generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some
>> >
>> > What about MITM in DH -- where do you get the keys from
>> > in this case?
>>
>> A key-recovery attack may allow the retroactive decryption of past
>> communication sessions, if the network endpoints rely on fixed
>> Diffie-Hellman. Of course, whenever an attacker can successfully mount
>> a MITM attack the current sessions are compromised.
>>
>
> Thanks. Are you referring to "DH as per the fucked RFC" or as "DH implemented
> properly"?

I'm concerned with Fixed Diffie-Hellman implemented properly.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 04:50:48 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 14:50:48 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 07:41:11AM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> parameters? Or, if, as you correctly pointed out, an implementation
> MAY NOT check group parameters, which entity deserves credit for it?
>

If you feel like debugging RFC, start from:

RFC:  2119

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119#section-5
5. MAY   This word, or the adjective "OPTIONAL", mean that an item is
truly optional.

This includes many backdoors per lack of formalism.

IMHO RFC must use only MUST or "MUST NOT" to make
the ``formal model'' soundly defined (recursively RFC compliant).

Suppose implementation X1 follows MAY and X2 does not.

Observe that in real world neither X1 nor X2 need be
RFC compliant (like malware).

Even if they are compliant, this might cause troubles.

In my DSA SSL example (which might be technical bug in openssl,
but not necessarily technical bug in hypothetical DH implementation),
the key/cert wasn't RFC compliant, but passed verification.

Cheers,
-- 
georgi





From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 08:21:30 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 15:21:30 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
>> I'm concerned with Fixed Diffie-Hellman implemented properly.
>>
>
> Do you have example of application which distinguishes proper DH from
> non-proper DH?

I'm confused. What do you mean by proper DH vs non-proper DH? Are you
referring to the performance of group parameters validation or lack of
the same, or something else?

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 08:40:24 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 15:40:24 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905152532.GN2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905152532.GN2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPCfkQz0Ps84DKxnYJB1zqBzuEPSpydpYgmW8kE9Sv5YCA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
> I mean: non-proper DH is implementation which doesn't return
> error/aborts if $q$ is composite. $q$ is defined in the RFC.

I'm not aware of any implementation that fails to abort is q is composite.

As a case in point, OpenSSL versions implementing X9.42 DH
(1.0.2-Beta2 and above) test both p and q for primality:

int DH_check(const DH *dh, int *ret)
{
   /* ... */

    if (dh->q) {
        /* ... */
        if (!BN_is_prime_ex(dh->q, BN_prime_checks, ctx, NULL))
            *ret |= DH_CHECK_Q_NOT_PRIME;
    }

and

    if (!BN_is_prime_ex(dh->p, BN_prime_checks, ctx, NULL))
        *ret |= DH_CHECK_P_NOT_PRIME;
    else if (!dh->q) {
       /* ... */
    }

I have no evidence though that application built on OpenSSL call
DH_check() function every time they need to.

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 08:48:48 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 15:48:48 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_=E2=80=93_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPCZHFW6ch-j9DXiX42NVjkqz=7Gx-zfJ1umv+TM9xs8pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> Just to change the current boring discussion about fucked RFCs.
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/04/mozilla_firefox_bugzilla_leak/
>
> Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover Firefox
> security holes – and exploit them
> Bugzilla infiltrated, private vulns slurped since at least 2014
>
> ====
> comments:
>
> 2014 appears too high bound for me, might be wrong.
>
> Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
> not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
> their code is).
>

Yesterday Mudge highlighted on Twitter
https://twitter.com/dotMudge/status/639866226592882689 :

  1990's CERT compromised for vendor vulns.

  2015 Mozilla's Bugzilla popped for the same reason.

  Tactics only change when they stop working.


Which is quite true. Therefore, I ask vulnerability sellers: How
effective your favorite exploit acquisition platform / program is at
preventing this from happening again?

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 09:15:16 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 16:15:16 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905160601.GP2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905152532.GN2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCfkQz0Ps84DKxnYJB1zqBzuEPSpydpYgmW8kE9Sv5YCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905160601.GP2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPB_Goy6tO+bH8fnyddK9NHEi_r2viLpzs_D+AdfMyG25w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 03:40:24PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> > I mean: non-proper DH is implementation which doesn't return
>> > error/aborts if $q$ is composite. $q$ is defined in the RFC.
>>
>> I'm not aware of any implementation that fails to abort is q is composite.
>>
>> As a case in point, OpenSSL versions implementing X9.42 DH
>> (1.0.2-Beta2 and above) test both p and q for primality:
>>
>> int DH_check(const DH *dh, int *ret)
>> {
>>    /* ... */
>>
>>     if (dh->q) {
>>         /* ... */
>>         if (!BN_is_prime_ex(dh->q, BN_prime_checks, ctx, NULL))
>>             *ret |= DH_CHECK_Q_NOT_PRIME;
>
>
> In 1.0.1p is_prime() is such a mess, it appears to often return $-1$
> by quick audit.
>
> Did you check the explicit POC in this thread against this version
> of openssl?

Yes, I did. The DSA PoC works again OpenSSL version 1.0.2d (snapshot).

Cheers,

-- Alfonso




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 06:31:31 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 16:31:31 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
> generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some

What about MITM in DH -- where do you get the keys from
in this case?






From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 06:49:30 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 16:49:30 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 01:41:23PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> I second Peter's recommendation; consider filing an erratum.
>

I strongly doubt I will do this.

We don't negotiate with turrorists ;-)

btw, asked about parts of this thread here:
http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/

don't see it in the archives yet, though
I received it.

Cheers,
-- 
georgi




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 07:31:47 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 17:31:47 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 02:06:22PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> >> The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
> >> generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some
> >
> > What about MITM in DH -- where do you get the keys from
> > in this case?
> 
> A key-recovery attack may allow the retroactive decryption of past
> communication sessions, if the network endpoints rely on fixed
> Diffie-Hellman. Of course, whenever an attacker can successfully mount
> a MITM attack the current sessions are compromised.
>

Thanks. Are you referring to "DH as per the fucked RFC" or as "DH implemented
properly"?




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 08:02:40 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:02:40 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 02:41:51PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> >> A key-recovery attack may allow the retroactive decryption of past
> >> communication sessions, if the network endpoints rely on fixed
> >> Diffie-Hellman. Of course, whenever an attacker can successfully mount
> >> a MITM attack the current sessions are compromised.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks. Are you referring to "DH as per the fucked RFC" or as "DH implemented
> > properly"?
> 
> I'm concerned with Fixed Diffie-Hellman implemented properly.
>

Do you have example of application which distinguishes proper DH from
non-proper DH?




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 08:25:32 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:25:32 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905152532.GN2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 03:21:30PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> ...
> >> I'm concerned with Fixed Diffie-Hellman implemented properly.
> >>
> >
> > Do you have example of application which distinguishes proper DH from
> > non-proper DH?
> 
> I'm confused. What do you mean by proper DH vs non-proper DH? Are you
> referring to the performance of group parameters validation or lack of
> the same, or something else?
>

I mean: non-proper DH is implementation which doesn't return
error/aborts if $q$ is composite. $q$ is defined in the RFC.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 08:35:37 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:35:37 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year =?utf-8?Q?sp?=
 =?utf-8?Q?ying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
Message-ID: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Just to change the current boring discussion about fucked RFCs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/04/mozilla_firefox_bugzilla_leak/

Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover Firefox
security holes – and exploit them
Bugzilla infiltrated, private vulns slurped since at least 2014

====
comments:

2014 appears too high bound for me, might be wrong.

Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
their code is).




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep  5 15:43:55 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2015 18:43:55 -0400
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Firefox_security_holes_=96_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1ZYM7o-0003Iy-1P@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Every upgrade of Mozilla (and all browsers) has diminished security
and increased ads and user profiling.

Sites which nag visitors to upgrade to latest versions are complicit.
So too are ad blockers and security promoters part of the racket.

Unceasing program upgrades, nagging and underwriting hacking
security panic are Silicon Valley-Alley fracking. No surprise that
FVEY capitalizes on the eagerness to cooperate against Net
users.

Man in the Machine about Jobs hardly scratches the surface,
complicit too in the hawking of cyber derring do in the Era of
Snowden Without Harming the US: "Be sure to use encryption,"
Jobs would applaud that planned parenthood documentrary.


At 06:10 PM 9/5/2015, you wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:35:37 +0300
>Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
> > not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
> > their code is).
> >
>
>         Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. 
> How can you not like them?





From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 09:06:01 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 19:06:01 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCfkQz0Ps84DKxnYJB1zqBzuEPSpydpYgmW8kE9Sv5YCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPB_Z7QXU1so=jR4J7yxo_r7Vjgjd=1TfW8ZQStvdsNOUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905143147.GL2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCQ+rsZS3ufiqVOLWOUrPP2K3u+D+_=8Biguy-DW59nrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905150240.GM2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDhOHyJQyKJrx9HrRifwnKTs+6p7c62gx2FKEGhoSbvGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905152532.GN2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCfkQz0Ps84DKxnYJB1zqBzuEPSpydpYgmW8kE9Sv5YCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150905160601.GP2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 03:40:24PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> ...
> > I mean: non-proper DH is implementation which doesn't return
> > error/aborts if $q$ is composite. $q$ is defined in the RFC.
> 
> I'm not aware of any implementation that fails to abort is q is composite.
> 
> As a case in point, OpenSSL versions implementing X9.42 DH
> (1.0.2-Beta2 and above) test both p and q for primality:
> 
> int DH_check(const DH *dh, int *ret)
> {
>    /* ... */
> 
>     if (dh->q) {
>         /* ... */
>         if (!BN_is_prime_ex(dh->q, BN_prime_checks, ctx, NULL))
>             *ret |= DH_CHECK_Q_NOT_PRIME;


In 1.0.1p is_prime() is such a mess, it appears to often return $-1$
by quick audit.

Did you check the explicit POC in this thread against this version
of openssl?





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 15:10:10 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 19:10:10 -0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:35:37 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:


> Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
> not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
> their code is).
> 

	Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. How can you not like them?






From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Sep  6 00:56:07 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 07:56:07 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>,
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3CC4@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> writes:

>On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>> The real question though is, why would anyone use parameters they didn't
>> generate themselves?  All DSA implementations I've seen (apart from some
>
>What about MITM in DH -- where do you get the keys from in this case?

Whose DH?  There are three major users of this on the public Internet, IPsec,
TLS, and SSH, all of which have the server provide the DH values.  MITM'ing
yourself isn't much of an achievement.

I haven't seen anything about this (so far) that doesn't class it as a purely
certificational weakness.  Consider the following equivalent of the flaw, but
for RSA:

  I stand up a TLS server and provision it with a cert where the server-auth
  key has exponent 1.

There is nothing in any spec that I can immediately think of that says that
you have to reject keys with e=1 (e.g. RFC 3447 just says it's "a positive
integer").  Most implementation were quite happy to accept e=1 keys until
maybe two years ago when there was some bad publicity about them which forced
vendors to fix the problem, but before that no-one bothered rejecting such
obviously invalid keys.  Use of e=1 keys was even a documented Windows
"feature" to allow plaintext key export while still being FIPS 140 compliant
[0].

This isn't any deliberately-inserted backdoor in the RFC, it's just sloppy
wording.  In any case though if I configure my server with a key I know to be
broken then any problems I encounter are my own fault.

The reductio ad absurdam form of this is that I stand up a TLS server which
serves the private key to anyone that connects to it (or puts it in the SSH
banner, or whatever).  OK, so I've proven that I can backdoor myself.  I can't
see how a third-party attacker can do anything though (for DH, RSA, or just
straight publish-the-key) unless I help them do it.

Peter.

[0] Where "FIPS" = "Farcical Information Processing Security".




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep  5 22:58:41 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 08:58:41 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a =?utf-8?Q?yea?=
 =?utf-8?Q?r_spying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 07:10:10PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> 
> 	Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. How can you not like them?


Don't forget the new privacy enhancing features.

AFAIK Debian and the FSF have forks of firefox.

Did they manage to get rid of sufficiently enough spyware?
(This doesn't appear easy IMHO).




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Sep  6 04:01:39 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 11:01:39 +0000
Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?RE:_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_to_d?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?iscover_Firefox_security_holes_=96_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>,
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> writes:

>On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:35:37 +0300 Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>
>> Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
>> not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
>> their code is).
>
>Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. How can you not
>like them?

Not to mention their plan to deprecate their extension API, which is the only
thing still separating them from actually being Chrome.  It looks like there
could be a race between them naturally driving their market share to zero
before the API-deprecation, or the API-deprecation forcing the issue.

What we'd really need is a reboot of the project to take it back to its roots,
removing layers and layers of accumulated bloat and "features" no-one wants,
run by dedicated developers who actually listen to their users rather than
doing whatever they think is trendy (mostly just cloning Chrome) and forcing
it on their users.  It'd be like Firefox rising anew from the ashes.  They
could call it, oh, I dunno, something like "Phoenix".

Peter.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep  6 01:27:09 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 11:27:09 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3CC4@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150905133131.GJ2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3CC4@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150906082709.GC2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 07:56:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> 
> I haven't seen anything about this (so far) that doesn't class it as a purely
> certificational weakness.  Consider the following equivalent of the flaw, but

OK, you might be right.

Summary of my verbiage on this list is here:
https://j.ludost.net/blog/archives/2015/09/05/rfc-2631_fips_186-3_and_openssls_implementation_of_dsa_appear_broken_and_possibly_backdoored/index.html

besides DH:

2) openssl 1.0.1p accepts composite $q$ in DSA
3) fips 160? forces small subgroup as low as 160 bits
and openssl 1.0.1p insists on this.

The repeat, the DL is subexponential in the whole group
of order $p-1$ and I don't exclude the possibility to
be easier in the small forced subgroup.

Have fun,
-- 
georgi




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Sep  6 05:28:49 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 13:28:49 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?RE=3A_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_=E2=80=93_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>,
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <894B7DDB-BE73-4299-8234-E0181BB0E60D@cathalgarvey.me>

TBF, Servo is kind of a total rewrite of exactly the sort the world needs: memory and type safe from the ground up.

What Servo needs then (besides 'completion') is a type/memory safe JS engine to replace Gecko, and likewise a LibreSSL-like replacement for OpenSSL.

While they've got nothing to lose though, they should go further than a mere reboot. They should resume *leading* FFS, for example by making their JS engine strict by default so they become the go-to development browser again. "If it works on FF it will work anywhere" would be a nice selling point I think.

They should also take privacy seriously and totally rethink their funding model. Patreon? Premium versions? I don't care, almost anything but built-in ads and bloatware will do. 

Baking in P2P in a real way would be nice. WebRTC-based replacement for Bittorrent Sync? Peer to Peer calls using Jitsi instead of (vomit) "Hello"? P2P filesharing and content publication, backed by subscription for "available while I'm offline"?

Loads of scope for Mozilla and not enough vision. I hate Google more than what Mozilla are becoming but that doesn't mean I'm proud to use FF. It kills my battery, WebRTC is still broken, and it keeps getting worse.

On 6 September 2015 12:01:39 IST, Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> writes:
>
>>On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 18:35:37 +0300 Georgi Guninski
><guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Likely the mozilla u$a comrades caught the less skilled attackers,
>>> not those with r00t access (having in mind what a mess
>>> their code is).
>>
>>Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. How can
>you not
>>like them?
>
>Not to mention their plan to deprecate their extension API, which is
>the only
>thing still separating them from actually being Chrome.  It looks like
>there
>could be a race between them naturally driving their market share to
>zero
>before the API-deprecation, or the API-deprecation forcing the issue.
>
>What we'd really need is a reboot of the project to take it back to its
>roots,
>removing layers and layers of accumulated bloat and "features" no-one
>wants,
>run by dedicated developers who actually listen to their users rather
>than
>doing whatever they think is trendy (mostly just cloning Chrome) and
>forcing
>it on their users.  It'd be like Firefox rising anew from the ashes. 
>They
>could call it, oh, I dunno, something like "Phoenix".
>
>Peter.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep  6 04:26:35 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 14:26:35 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a =?utf-8?Q?yea?=
 =?utf-8?Q?r_spying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150906112635.GD2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 11:01:39AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Not to mention their plan to deprecate their extension API, which is the only
> thing still separating them from actually being Chrome.  It looks like there
> could be a race between them naturally driving their market share to zero
> before the API-deprecation, or the API-deprecation forcing the issue.
> 

IMHO they will kick the bucket as soon as google
stop pouring money in them.



> What we'd really need is a reboot of the project to take it back to its roots,
> removing layers and layers of accumulated bloat and "features" no-one wants,
> run by dedicated developers who actually listen to their users rather than
> doing whatever they think is trendy (mostly just cloning Chrome) and forcing
> it on their users.  It'd be like Firefox rising anew from the ashes.  They
> could call it, oh, I dunno, something like "Phoenix".
>

Back to the roots?

According to quote:
"Roots are the branches down in the earth. Branches are roots in the air
-- Stray Birds".

If you want the roots, consider spamming Brendan Eich,
he has ideas about "expanding JS", which I won't comment.

If you ask me, starting from zero is better.

Likely, this will require nontrivial amounts of money.

>From experience, older mozilla code contained dereferencing 
NULL on purpose, which can only compete with certain openssl's
construct I don't quite remember well ATM (it was even funnier).





From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep  6 07:20:40 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:20:40 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a =?utf-8?Q?yea?=
 =?utf-8?Q?r_spying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <894B7DDB-BE73-4299-8234-E0181BB0E60D@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF3E15@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <894B7DDB-BE73-4299-8234-E0181BB0E60D@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150906142040.GE2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 01:28:49PM +0100, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> TBF, Servo is kind of a total rewrite of exactly the sort the world needs: memory and type safe from the ground up.
>

Is this one, from mozilla r3s34rch?

https://github.com/servo/servo/blob/master/README.md

A lot of dependencies I see:

On Debian-based Linuxes:

sudo apt-get install curl freeglut3-dev \
    libfreetype6-dev libgl1-mesa-dri libglib2.0-dev xorg-dev \
        gperf g++ cmake python-virtualenv \
	    libssl-dev libbz2-dev libosmesa6-dev libxmu6 libxmu-dev
	    libglu1-mesa-dev



Could point which parts of Servo display jpg/png and render fonts?

The above dependencies are provably not memory safe, sorry.






From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 10:44:58 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:44:58 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_=E2=80=93_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <20150906155153.GF2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCZHFW6ch-j9DXiX42NVjkqz=7Gx-zfJ1umv+TM9xs8pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150906155153.GF2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPBwTmjxcXpOTVTahufhSOBryQTLUDOgqb47GvxNDURmuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 03:48:48PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
>>
>> .... I ask vulnerability sellers: How
>> effective your favorite exploit acquisition platform / program is at
>> preventing this from happening again?
>>
>
> You mean something like the the dear nsa:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/04/nsa_explains_handling_zerodays/
>
> Mind-blowing secrets of NSA's security exploit stockpile revealed at
> last
> Incredible document has to be seen to be believed

It made me reconsider the true meaning of [XXXXXXXXXXX] to read about
[XXXXXXXXXXX] and, especially, [XXXXXXXXXXX].

More seriously: After years of fierce debate, vulnerability disclosure
is still looking for a convincing answer. The NSA may contribute its
substantial share to discussion --- albeit less to the practice --- of
vulnerability disclosure. Needless to say, it would have been more
helpful to read a less heavily redacted 'Vulnerabilities Equities
Policy and Process' to this end.

On September 29, NTIA will convene a meeting on this topic. For those
considering to attend it
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/september-29-multistakeholder-meeting-vulnerability-disclosure-pre-registration

Will we never stop from drinking from the (endless?) stream of
exploitable vulnerabilities?

-- Alfonso




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep  6 08:51:53 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 18:51:53 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a =?utf-8?Q?yea?=
 =?utf-8?Q?r_spying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPCZHFW6ch-j9DXiX42NVjkqz=7Gx-zfJ1umv+TM9xs8pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCZHFW6ch-j9DXiX42NVjkqz=7Gx-zfJ1umv+TM9xs8pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150906155153.GF2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 03:48:48PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> 
> .... I ask vulnerability sellers: How
> effective your favorite exploit acquisition platform / program is at
> preventing this from happening again?
>

You mean something like the the dear nsa:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/04/nsa_explains_handling_zerodays/

Mind-blowing secrets of NSA's security exploit stockpile revealed at
last
Incredible document has to be seen to be believed




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 21:24:17 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 21:24:17 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/26/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/hotpluggedin-19762/
>
> as expected, this was just a "go away" tactic, and once paid, they
> took their time to tell me they must refund, and i must give them an
> amount, and then they search,,,,

mea culpa; this response about fees was in error, and the FOIA person
apologized. so far as now, zero fees expected...

this other did complete: request to Department of Defense, Office of
the Inspector General of the United States of America.
 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/hotpluggedin-19766/#file-54038

they have THREE (3)  WiebeTech HotPlug systems, and no other brands of
this device type used.


best regards,




From ryacko at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 21:59:14 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 21:59:14 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_=E2=80=93_and_exploit_them?=
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0SHe_YLj0UCX+pB4nFfrYwWH=ObYeEX5J0YDpKQ6Ag8g@mail.gmail.com>

No wonder firefox is seemingly more insecure lately.

Only choices now are chrome or a text-only browser.




From ryacko at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 23:14:03 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 23:14:03 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Hackers_spent_at_least_a_year_spying_on_Mozilla_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_=E2=80=93_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <20150907060834.GG2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAO7N=i0SHe_YLj0UCX+pB4nFfrYwWH=ObYeEX5J0YDpKQ6Ag8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150907060834.GG2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i28pOrNm07Ge+NbcC6Pg=8XxeERtL_+F7r6YSDQsdq-iw@mail.gmail.com>

I realize Chrome is basically a version of spyware or adware. It does
direct you to google by default.

But, it's the same dilemma with Tor exit nodes. At least with your
ISP, not just any one can offer you internet service. With a tor exit
node, anyone with a few thousand bucks could be running it.

Although what am I saying? I never paid a cent for Firefox.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 11:08 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 09:59:14PM -0700, Ryan Carboni wrote:
>> No wonder firefox is seemingly more insecure lately.
>>
>> Only choices now are chrome or a text-only browser.
>
> https://thestack.com/security/2015/06/19/google-criticised-for-opaque-audio-listening-binary-in-debians-chromium-browser/
>
> Yoshino Yoshihito said in the report ‘After upgrading chromium to 43, I
> noticed that when it is running and immediately after the machine is
> on-line it silently starts downloading “Chrome Hotword Shared Module”
> extension, which contains a binary without source code,’
>
>




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep  6 23:08:34 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 09:08:34 +0300
Subject: Hackers spent at least a =?utf-8?Q?yea?=
 =?utf-8?Q?r_spying_on_Mozilla_to_discover_Firefox_security_holes_?=
 =?utf-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0SHe_YLj0UCX+pB4nFfrYwWH=ObYeEX5J0YDpKQ6Ag8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0SHe_YLj0UCX+pB4nFfrYwWH=ObYeEX5J0YDpKQ6Ag8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150907060834.GG2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 06, 2015 at 09:59:14PM -0700, Ryan Carboni wrote:
> No wonder firefox is seemingly more insecure lately.
> 
> Only choices now are chrome or a text-only browser.

https://thestack.com/security/2015/06/19/google-criticised-for-opaque-audio-listening-binary-in-debians-chromium-browser/

Yoshino Yoshihito said in the report ‘After upgrading chromium to 43, I
noticed that when it is running and immediately after the machine is
on-line it silently starts downloading “Chrome Hotword Shared Module”
extension, which contains a binary without source code,’





From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep  7 01:41:46 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 11:41:46 +0300
Subject: Can the NSA break 100000 bit RSA assuming they have O(n^6) or
 O(n^12) factoring algorithm?
Message-ID: <20150907084146.GH2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

In 2010 I generated two RSA keys (and certs) of size above 100000
bits:

[Full-disclosure] nonsense fun: 100 000 bit rsa key
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2010-08/0384.html

The keys/certs:
http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2010-08/att-0384/gir.tar.gz
(the certs might have expired but this doesn't matter).

The private keys are included too.

According to my mail they were generated in 
"about 30 hours on 1 core" and I used state of the art 
primality checking "pfgw".

n is the size of the modulus in bits.

Assume the much loved NSA has factoring algorithms of
complexity O(n^6) or O(n^12) running on classical computers.

Can the NSA break n=100000 without using owning/torture?

Some computations suggest NO, especially for the second:

sage: k=100000
sage: RR(k^6).log(2)
99.6578428466209
sage: RR(k^12).log(2)
199.315685693242



Comments about quantum computer that can break them
are welcome too.




From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 05:07:14 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 12:07:14 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150907112507.GI2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150907112507.GI2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPAc5AOrSV+yk-7RR3DN2C0USgSYGstt-bxxGL+iwAC2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> This is also on popular? forums:
>
> [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10175284
> [1]
> https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/3jumon/rfc2631_fips_1863_and_openssls_implementation_of/
>
> Comments in [0] suggest "formal verification".

The only hope to have a formal verification that extends also to
algebraic properties, is to start from formal specifications. A
top-down approach in stark contrast with the dynamic, agile, and
pragmatic "ship, then test" paradigm [1] and the "don't worry, be
crappy" mantra [2], repeated by entrepreneurs innovating the most.

We need better security trade-offs.

-- Alfonso

[1] http://guykawasaki.com/the_art_of_boot/
[2] http://guykawasaki.com/the_art_of_inno/




From europus at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 09:55:11 2015
From: europus at gmail.com (Ulex Europae)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:55:11 -0400
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Firefox_security_holes_=96_and_exploit_them?=
In-Reply-To: <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com>

At 12:28 PM 9/7/2015, rysiek wrote:
> > Georgi Guninski pisze:
> >
> > Did they manage to get rid of sufficiently enough spyware?
>
>No. Even the simple things are apparently ignored:
>https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=654336
>http://rys.io/en/53
>
> > (This doesn't appear easy IMHO).
>
>Some things would appear easy. Like *not* removing the "delete 
>history after X days" setting. Now in Firefox you can only either 
>have history, or not have it at all.

Various extensions have been known to "fix" or "restore" various 
things that Firefox should do or used to do, although I cannot 
address the purity of the manner by which they do so.

I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? 
Because "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on 
text-only browsers...

How about a blacklist of extensions to avoid at all costs?

UE





From rich at openwatch.net  Mon Sep  7 13:48:28 2015
From: rich at openwatch.net (Rich Jones)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 13:48:28 -0700
Subject: Script Kiddie Killed in Drone Strike
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxLE-RvbdzTH6mWuSf8bjQMNnwtY5apNZeqmWd2A2RAG0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLE-RvbdzTH6mWuSf8bjQMNnwtY5apNZeqmWd2A2RAG0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADJYzxKXAES+CdCgGbTdBv0DOA1xvkNxS-u9LvHX9yC4GqXQyg@mail.gmail.com>

Update to this: ISIS Twitter claiming this was the result of backdoors the '
Surespot
<https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/>'
"secure" messaging application.

https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913

On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:

>
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/junaid-hussain-dead-isis-computer-6326361
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
>
> Apparently one of the TeaMp0isoN founders was just killed by a US drone
> strike in Syria. Crazy times.
>
> According to the.. fairly questionable.. article linked above, he was #3
> on the US kill list, "behind only Jihadi John and ISIS leader Abu Bakr
> al-Baghdadi"! Not bad for a guy most famous for SQL injections.. I wonder
> who took his place on the list.
>
> R
>
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From alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 07:01:16 2015
From: alfonso.degregorio at gmail.com (Alfonso De Gregorio)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 14:01:16 +0000
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key Agreement
 Method
In-Reply-To: <20150907123052.GJ2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150907112507.GI2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAc5AOrSV+yk-7RR3DN2C0USgSYGstt-bxxGL+iwAC2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150907123052.GJ2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CA+bTbPBCG3ojTirqQV=JJVh2PCgdFM9JcMG01hMRgLguarBYhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
...
> btw, doesn't your post contradict another post of yours
> here:
> https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-September/009032.html

It doesn't, as long as we don't confuse what is desirable -- and
indeed it is so -- with the practically and systematically attainable.
Or, to paraphrase Danny Strong, idealism loses to pragmatism when it
comes to engineering security.

I'm not even persuaded that writing a formal specifications gives us
always the ability to check the equivalence of implementations. As a
negative case in point, take languages/protocols and their parsers. A
grammar can be understood as a specification. Still, "arithmetically
checking the computational equivalence of parsers [...] is decidable
up to a level of computational power required to parse the language,
and becomes undecidable thereafter". [1]

All of which is to say that checking the computational equivalence of
parsers is still possible. But, as designers, in order to reconcile
the desirable with the practically attainable, we need to stick to the
simplest possible input languages (i.e., regular and context-free).
This is the kind of security trade-offs I was alluding to.

And this also links us to the other thread on browser security,
exploits, and Firefox.

-- Alfonso


[1] http://langsec.org/papers/Bratus.pdf




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep  7 04:25:07 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 14:25:07 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150907112507.GI2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

This is also on popular? forums:

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10175284
[1]
https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/3jumon/rfc2631_fips_1863_and_openssls_implementation_of/

Comments in [0] suggest "formal verification".

Likely the lovely micro$oft will classify this email as
"self promotion".

Scumbags, linking is legal at least in EU (so far).




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep  7 05:30:52 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 15:30:52 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPAc5AOrSV+yk-7RR3DN2C0USgSYGstt-bxxGL+iwAC2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905115048.GI2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAEMLQQWOPORFFC-uiNCGSmuD0aCdG23Nf+er4wyxhQVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905134930.GK2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150907112507.GI2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPAc5AOrSV+yk-7RR3DN2C0USgSYGstt-bxxGL+iwAC2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150907123052.GJ2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:07:14PM +0000, Alfonso De Gregorio wrote:
> >
> > Comments in [0] suggest "formal verification".
> 
> The only hope to have a formal verification that extends also to
> algebraic properties, is to start from formal specifications. A
> top-down approach in stark contrast with the dynamic, agile, and
> pragmatic "ship, then test" paradigm [1] and the "don't worry, be
> crappy" mantra [2], repeated by entrepreneurs innovating the most.
> 
> We need better security trade-offs.
>

Re "formal verification".

I am skidiot at formal verification (FW).

So far my best achievement in FW is
"Axiom free proof of False" in Coq (is it Cock?).

I did this by native code execution via plugins
in Coq (the plugins were part of the "pr00f"),
which in theory can falsify other proofs
depending on the file permissions.

Much letter I learned that the lovely micro$oft
heavily depend on plugins in their Cock "pr00fs" and
accidentally something broke the check of the
"pr00f" for result of significant importance 
(something like "coqchk") due to some fault in the plugin and/or Coq.

The p00f failure was discussed on academic site.

In short, I consider Coq a charlatan tool,
and likely security vulnerability, since a proof
can easily execute native code.

Let me know if you need further references.

btw, doesn't your post contradict another post of yours
here:
https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-September/009032.html

> While I sympathize with your point of view, and while I would welcome
> a full equivalence of implementations, ...





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep  7 09:24:26 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 18:24:26 +0200
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i28pOrNm07Ge+NbcC6Pg=8XxeERtL_+F7r6YSDQsdq-iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0SHe_YLj0UCX+pB4nFfrYwWH=ObYeEX5J0YDpKQ6Ag8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150907060834.GG2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAO7N=i28pOrNm07Ge+NbcC6Pg=8XxeERtL_+F7r6YSDQsdq-iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3066292.hCcZ1x7Aka@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 6 września 2015 23:14:03 Ryan Carboni pisze:
> I realize Chrome is basically a version of spyware or adware. It does
> direct you to google by default.
> 
> But, it's the same dilemma with Tor exit nodes. At least with your
> ISP, not just any one can offer you internet service. With a tor exit
> node, anyone with a few thousand bucks could be running it.
> 
> Although what am I saying? I never paid a cent for Firefox.

Also, Chromium.  Why anybody uses Chrome is beyond me.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep  7 09:28:03 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 18:28:03 +0200
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes =?UTF-8?B?4oCT?= and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 6 września 2015 08:58:41 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 07:10:10PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> > 	Ah, but firefox keeps getting an even cooler GUI every day. How can 
you
> > 	not like them?
> Don't forget the new privacy enhancing features.

Like EME? ;)
http://rys.io/en/141

> AFAIK Debian and the FSF have forks of firefox.
> 
> Did they manage to get rid of sufficiently enough spyware?

No. Even the simple things are apparently ignored:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=654336
http://rys.io/en/53

> (This doesn't appear easy IMHO).

Some things would appear easy. Like *not* removing the "delete history after X 
days" setting. Now in Firefox you can only either have history, or not have it 
at all.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From veg at fatsquirrel.org  Mon Sep  7 17:42:13 2015
From: veg at fatsquirrel.org (Veg)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:42:13 -0400
Subject: Traffic analysis at Bletchley Park
Message-ID: <CA+jsSL-K2-c9bA-+zrY7cVT_to_48ZqLz+bOmCJmYsm0MRzrUA@mail.gmail.com>

Good documentary on an underreported aspect of the work by the codebreakers
at Bletchley Park:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b069gxz7
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From s at ctrlc.hu  Mon Sep  7 11:49:10 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 20:49:10 +0200
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes ? and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>
 <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>

On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:55:11PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
> I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? Because
> "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on text-only browsers...

NoScript, RequestPolicy, RefControl, CookieMonster, policeman,
https-everywhere, monkeysphere, RedirectCleaner, CertPatrol|Convergence,
BetterPrivacy, random-agent-spoofer, ssleuth


-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep  7 16:57:28 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 01:57:28 +0200
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes ? and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com> <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <3912444.nCHECWjdxs@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 7 września 2015 20:49:10 stef pisze:
> On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:55:11PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
> > I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? Because
> > "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on text-only browsers...
> 
> NoScript, RequestPolicy, RefControl, CookieMonster, policeman,
> https-everywhere, monkeysphere, RedirectCleaner, CertPatrol|Convergence,
> BetterPrivacy, random-agent-spoofer, ssleuth

And PrivacyBadger, I might add.

Also, Self-Destructing Cookies is an interesting one, as while CookieMonster 
allows you to keep track of which sites can or cannot set cookies, that's
for-session granularity. Self-Destructing Cookies destroys cookies after a set 
time after closing a given tab. I use both.

And if you're into this kind of stuff, Lightbeam. Just for shits and giggles.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From fe.peressim at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 22:57:30 2015
From: fe.peressim at gmail.com (Felipe Felipe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 02:57:30 -0300
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
Message-ID: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3Q6y0dNAY

http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/homeless-man-dies-fighting-gunman-to-save-woman/


Is brazilian security a joke? I'm from brazil and just wonder why things
like that still are happening here. Is the cops from here a joke? Yes they
are. I 've already been beaten by them without do anything just for walking
in the streets, but when good people need them , they nothing do.

They have had a chance to shot the man who had the woman, but besides they
didn't anything they also let a citizen homeless get close of the killer,
and they used to shot more than 30 times in the killer.
The killer had been arrested more than 10 times, drug trafficking, attemped
tp murder, aggression, resistance and many other things, he had got more
than 20 years in jail and was in the streets free and armed. Is that our
justice just do, let killers and bad people walk free among the citizens.

Both men are homeless people and the killer was always been in walking with
the gun in this place. That place that happend this is in the cathedral of
Sé in São Paulo, too many foreign use to visit this place, because is the
biggest church of Brazil and a historical place, that happend on last
friday.
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From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Tue Sep  8 00:20:41 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 07:20:41 +0000
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes ? and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$> <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>
 <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com>, <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF53BE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

stef <s at ctrlc.hu> writes:

>On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:55:11PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
>> I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? Because
>> "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on text-only browsers...
>
>NoScript, RequestPolicy, RefControl, CookieMonster, policeman, https-
>everywhere, monkeysphere, RedirectCleaner, CertPatrol|Convergence,
>BetterPrivacy, random-agent-spoofer, ssleuth

You forgot the most critical ones, the extensions you need to undo all the
crap that Mozilla have piled onto Firefox since they started on their copy-
everything-Chrome-does spree.  Classic Theme Restorer is the first extension I
load on any new install (even before NoScript), it's now comprehensive enough
that it's probably the only one you need, although Hide Tab Bar With One Tab
is also useful.

Peter.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Tue Sep  8 01:41:53 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:41:53 +0100
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to discover
 Firefox security holes ? and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <3912444.nCHECWjdxs@lapuntu>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com> <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
 <3912444.nCHECWjdxs@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55EE9F51.8060204@cathalgarvey.me>

There's two categories or buckets here if you're playing to win; One is 
a list of extensions you can install on *anyone's* computer without them 
even noticing the privacy/security boost they're receiving (because if 
they notice, you lose because they blame the new *ware for all their 
trivial problems). The other list is the power-user stuff that really 
works, but which n00bs will reject out of ignorance, blaming the 
protective software instead of the buggy websites it exposes.

My short-list for install-on-everyone's-computer is:

* Disconnect
* HTTPS-Everywhere
* uBlock Origin (don't change default settings)
* Disable 3rd Party Cookies

NoScript, Cookie-killers, RequestPolicy etcetera are too prone to 
creating problems for browser users; to an enlightened user, blame the 
website, work around, or make an exception and move on. But to a n00b, 
exposing errors in tracker-rich sites is unacceptable, sadly.

On 08/09/15 00:57, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia poniedziałek, 7 września 2015 20:49:10 stef pisze:
>> On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:55:11PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
>>> I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? Because
>>> "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on text-only browsers...
>>
>> NoScript, RequestPolicy, RefControl, CookieMonster, policeman,
>> https-everywhere, monkeysphere, RedirectCleaner, CertPatrol|Convergence,
>> BetterPrivacy, random-agent-spoofer, ssleuth
>
> And PrivacyBadger, I might add.
>
> Also, Self-Destructing Cookies is an interesting one, as while CookieMonster
> allows you to keep track of which sites can or cannot set cookies, that's
> for-session granularity. Self-Destructing Cookies destroys cookies after a set
> time after closing a given tab. I use both.
>
> And if you're into this kind of stuff, Lightbeam. Just for shits and giggles.
>

-- 
Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: cathalgarvey




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep  7 23:47:38 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 09:47:38 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150905070749.GC2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPCHKm_n8ei9qw6yx=VVbHh+z8jQ1GNYa+gs6ZLC0AfxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF36EE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150908064738.GA2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:45:07AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> So if you generate them yourself, you're OK.  If you get them from a CA then
> you don't need to care because if the CA wants to attack you then they can
> just issue a forged cert in your name and don't need to worry about
> backdooring the params (in any case using shared params is a bad idea because
> they allow forgery of signatures on certificates. Suppose that the certificate
> contains a copy of the certificate signer's DSA parameters, and the verifier
> of the certificate has a copy of the signer's public key but not the signer's
> DSA parameters (which are shared with other keys). If the verifier uses the
> DSA parameters from the certificate along with the signer's public key to
> verify the signature on the certificate, then an attacker can create bogus
> certificates by choosing a random u and finding its inverse v modulo q (uv is
> congruent to 1 modulo q).  Then take the certificate signer's public key g^x
> and compute g' = (g^x)^u. Then g'^v = g^x.  Using the DSA parameters p, q, g',
> the signer's public key corresponds to the private key v, which the attacker
> knows.  The attacker can then create a bogus certificate, put parameters (p,
> q, g') in it, and sign it with the DSA private key v to create an apparently
> valid certificate).
>

Sorry but I don't understand the final stage of the attack.

If I follow correctly, you start from public DSA key
with strong parameters and produce another keypair,
which is related to the original key, but is distinct
from it.

What is the final stage of the attack?





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Sep  8 10:22:22 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:22:22 -0700
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
In-Reply-To: <20150908121939.GD2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150908102544.GB2715@sivokote.iziade.m$> <5529287.Yxon4zfi8W@lapuntu>
 <20150908121939.GD2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55EF194E.4090003@riseup.net>

On 09/08/2015 05:19 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 02:05:51PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
>> in the US the Police would probably shoot the homeless guy, the perp, and 
>> finally the girl just for good measure.
>>
>>
> Just being equal opportunity troll ;)

I agree with rysiek's sentiment 100%.

#YourLifeDoesntMatter to the Popo if yo po...

Not trolling.

...and homelessness IS the outcome of economic slavery under a
crapitalist shitstem.

After all, that 5 or so percent unemployment required to maintain 'wage
stability' for the bosses has to show up in some way, and that 'spanger'
on the sidewalk, the guy sleeping in the bushes, drunk and escaping
circumstance or not, is that outcropping.

RR

>
> The EU  pours many billions of euros in
> Ponzi schemes like Greece.
>
> In the EU thousands of refugees (immigrants) pass
> "illegally" cross country borders easily (saw this on TV)
> and the EU claims it fights drugs.
>
> Economic slavery is not so different than physical
> slavery IMHO.
>


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From s at ctrlc.hu  Tue Sep  8 03:25:50 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 12:25:50 +0200
Subject: Hackers spent at least a year spying on Mozilla to
 discover Firefox security holes ? and exploit them
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF53BE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <20150905153537.GO2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55eb6758.5a18370a.bcf8c.3cf2@mx.google.com>
 <20150906055841.GA2609@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1641850.IyAd3s2aHy@lapuntu>
 <55edc16b.6465420a.2449d.0c81@mx.google.com>
 <20150907184910.GR7320@ctrlc.hu>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF53BE@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150908102549.GT7320@ctrlc.hu>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 07:20:41AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> stef <s at ctrlc.hu> writes:
> 
> >On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 12:55:11PM -0400, Ulex Europae wrote:
> >> I wonder, is there an A-list of must-have extensions for Firefox? Because
> >> "the internet is for porn," and porn doesn't work on text-only browsers...
> >
> >NoScript, RequestPolicy, RefControl, CookieMonster, policeman, https-
> >everywhere, monkeysphere, RedirectCleaner, CertPatrol|Convergence,
> >BetterPrivacy, random-agent-spoofer, ssleuth
> 
> You forgot the most critical ones, the extensions you need to undo all the

well, i prefer vimperator, this list is intentionally neglecting UI plugins.
also you should look into random-agent-spoofer it does disable a lot of the
mozilla sabotage crap.

> crap that Mozilla have piled onto Firefox since they started on their copy-
> everything-Chrome-does spree.  Classic Theme Restorer is the first extension I
> load on any new install (even before NoScript), it's now comprehensive enough
> that it's probably the only one you need, although Hide Tab Bar With One Tab
> is also useful.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From s at ctrlc.hu  Tue Sep  8 03:43:37 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 12:43:37 +0200
Subject: Traffic analysis at Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <CA+jsSL-K2-c9bA-+zrY7cVT_to_48ZqLz+bOmCJmYsm0MRzrUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+jsSL-K2-c9bA-+zrY7cVT_to_48ZqLz+bOmCJmYsm0MRzrUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150908104337.GU7320@ctrlc.hu>

On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 08:42:13PM -0400, Veg wrote:
> Good documentary on an underreported aspect of the work by the codebreakers
> at Bletchley Park:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b069gxz7

maybe liberating this from stupid geolocation based discrimination would be a
service for all readers of this list.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep  8 03:25:44 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 13:25:44 +0300
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
In-Reply-To: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150908102544.GB2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 02:57:30AM -0300, Felipe Felipe wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3Q6y0dNAY
> 
> http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/homeless-man-dies-fighting-gunman-to-save-woman/
> 
> 
> Is brazilian security a joke? I'm from brazil and just wonder why things

IMHO ALL security is (sad for most) joke, not only Brazilian.

-- 
good luck




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep  8 05:05:51 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 14:05:51 +0200
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
In-Reply-To: <20150908102544.GB2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150908102544.GB2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <5529287.Yxon4zfi8W@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 8 września 2015 13:25:44 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 02:57:30AM -0300, Felipe Felipe wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3Q6y0dNAY
> > 
> > http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/homeless-man-dies-fighting-gunman-to-save
> > -woman/
> > 
> > 
> > Is brazilian security a joke? I'm from brazil and just wonder why things
> 
> IMHO ALL security is (sad for most) joke, not only Brazilian.

in the US the Police would probably shoot the homeless guy, the perp, and 
finally the girl just for good measure.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep  8 04:54:26 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 14:54:26 +0300
Subject: Script Kiddie Killed in Drone Strike
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxKXAES+CdCgGbTdBv0DOA1xvkNxS-u9LvHX9yC4GqXQyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLE-RvbdzTH6mWuSf8bjQMNnwtY5apNZeqmWd2A2RAG0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADJYzxKXAES+CdCgGbTdBv0DOA1xvkNxS-u9LvHX9yC4GqXQyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150908115426.GC2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 01:48:28PM -0700, Rich Jones wrote:
> Update to this: ISIS Twitter claiming this was the result of backdoors the '
> Surespot
> <https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/>'
> "secure" messaging application.
> 
> https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
> 
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> > http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/junaid-hussain-dead-isis-computer-6326361
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
> >
> > Apparently one of the TeaMp0isoN founders was just killed by a US drone
> > strike in Syria. Crazy times.
> >
> > According to the.. fairly questionable.. article linked above, he was #3
> > on the US kill list, "behind only Jihadi John and ISIS leader Abu Bakr
> > al-Baghdadi"! Not bad for a guy most famous for SQL injections.. I wonder
> > who took his place on the list.
> >
> > R
> >

Hope they don't use nuclear weapons against APT hackers
near me.

Still remember the Chernobyl disaster from sufficiently
large distance (wasn't too small child then).





From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep  8 05:19:39 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 15:19:39 +0300
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
In-Reply-To: <5529287.Yxon4zfi8W@lapuntu>
References: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150908102544.GB2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <5529287.Yxon4zfi8W@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150908121939.GD2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 02:05:51PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > IMHO ALL security is (sad for most) joke, not only Brazilian.
> 
> in the US the Police would probably shoot the homeless guy, the perp, and 
> finally the girl just for good measure.
>
Just being equal opportunity troll ;)

The EU  pours many billions of euros in
Ponzi schemes like Greece.

In the EU thousands of refugees (immigrants) pass
"illegally" cross country borders easily (saw this on TV)
and the EU claims it fights drugs.

Economic slavery is not so different than physical
slavery IMHO.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep  8 11:02:33 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:02:33 +0200
Subject: Brazil hero homeless man dead after save a woman from gunman
In-Reply-To: <20150908121939.GD2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAKxAMLUb830VbTFNUaZ0SnAhOvre3hCOox7gZZXtuR-mMcK6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5529287.Yxon4zfi8W@lapuntu> <20150908121939.GD2715@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <5795580.cpyOXZAt8m@lapuntu>

Hi,

Dnia wtorek, 8 września 2015 15:19:39 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Tue, Sep 08, 2015 at 02:05:51PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > > IMHO ALL security is (sad for most) joke, not only Brazilian.
> > 
> > in the US the Police would probably shoot the homeless guy, the perp, and
> > finally the girl just for good measure.
> 
> Just being equal opportunity troll ;)

Aww. :)

> The EU  pours many billions of euros in
> Ponzi schemes like Greece.

True dat. And bank bailouts. Not that the USA hasn't done just that a couple 
of years ago. Your point?

> In the EU thousands of refugees (immigrants) pass
> "illegally" cross country borders easily

Since when is that (i.e. freedom of movement) a bad thing?

> (saw this on TV)

Aww! :)

> and the EU claims it fights drugs.

Since when is that (i.e. "war on drugs") a good thing?

> Economic slavery is not so different than physical
> slavery IMHO.

Agreed. Though we do tend to have a much smaller chance of getting "suicided 
by a cop" here...

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 21:25:25 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 00:25:25 -0400
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>

https://theintercept.com/2015/09/08/how-putin-controls-the-russian-internet/
The key paragraph in Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan’s new book, The
Red Web, comes surprisingly late, after the authors have described the
long and ambitious construction of a wide-ranging, all-penetrating
Internet surveillance and censorship system in Russia.
...
Just as the Soviet system discovered that it did not need to exert
total pressure in order to control its population, so the Kremlin has
now demonstrated that it does not need to block every byte in order to
exert utter dominance over information.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Sep  8 23:35:53 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 00:35:53 -0600
Subject: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>

On 09/09/2015 12:00 AM, jim bell wrote:
> http://bitnovosti.com/2015/06/04/bitnation-pangea-releases-alpha-governance-system-based-blockchain/
> 
> It's in Russian.Here is the automatic translation:
> 
> Bitnation released blokcheyn system of public administration
> BY IMPGUN on 2015/06/04 • (53)Bitnation, project development blokcheyn system of public administration 2.0, headed by charismatic founder Suzanne Tarkovsky-Templhof (Susanne Tarkowski Tempelhof), released an alpha version of the platformBitnation Pangea. The release is version 0.1.0, and can not boast of stability and broad functionality, but it is based on the idea of a truly revolutionary and can have important consequences.«Bitnation - an operating system for the public administration 2.0, designed to undermine the oligopoly of nation states due to more convenient, secure and cost-effective management services, - said Bitcoin Magazine Templhof Tarkovsky, who worked for many years in various troubled regions of the world. - As the world due to globalization leaves the current paradigm of the nation-state, it is possible to implement a completely new solution that enables service providers to many competing public administration to take the place of states which for centuries m
 a
intained its geographical monopoly violent means. "Developers Bitnation Pangea want to create a platform for the world's first nation to blokcheyne that would provide all the services of traditional states and replace them with voluntary communities. The ultimate goal Bitnation - to create a new world in which everyone will be able to choose their nation, few nations do not choose none at all, or even create their own nation on the platform Bitnation.
> "The alternative, which is now leaning to the world - a global organization in the spirit of the United Nations that the management plan will be even worse than the current structures, because they will try to mow one size fits all - says Tarkovsky-Templhof. - We strive to Bitnation prevent this development by creating an environment of competing service providers using blokcheyn Bitcoin - in fact, to develop a protocol kriptonatsy open source. "
> The core platform consists of a system for tracking identity and reputation (passport Bitnation), of dispute resolution, the notary and libraries (decentralized) management applications in the style of "do it yourself", with which users can create, upload to the network, spread in share or sell their own (decentralized) management applications. The plans - services for marriages and wills, contracts for child care, birth certificates of land ownership, the establishment of corporations and trade interests in them, unemployment insurance and health insurance, pensions, security and diplomatic services.Alpha release, which is updated in real time in response to user feedback in discussion groups Bitnation, already includes some interesting features such as the ability to register blokcheyne document with a time stamp.Previous pilot projects include Bitnation first marriage registered in blokcheyne, and first-blokcheyn passport. Bitnation also developed land registry and successfully 
 t
ested it in Ghana, where 70% of the land is not registered any property rights, which discourages investment and lending on the security of land.After studying many blokcheyn protocols developers Bitnation for the release of the first release of Pangea joined forces with the founders of Project Horizon and Blocknet. The alpha version used blokcheyn Horizon, but the technology will support Blocknet and other blokcheynov. According to Tarkovsky-Templhof, future releases will not be limited Pangea blokcheynami altkoynov, and be able to use blokcheyn Bitcoin, which should positively influence the prospects of the project.
> «Bitnation - it is a truly innovative concept, and we are pleased to provide them with a platform for development - said Arlene Kalvik (Arlyn Culwick), one of the project participants Blocknet. - We believe that providing interaction blokcheynov, Blocknet will help unlock the full potential of blokcheyn technologies. "«Bitnation - a revolutionary idea, which we believe will radically change the world for the better - said Tarkovsky-Templhof in the previous press release. - And yet, as we are the first one who really tries to challenge the relevance of the construct of nation-states to implement existing ideas is sometimes not easy. "
> One of the main problems is the financing of the project, so the group Bitnation, which until recently largely relied on the efforts of volunteers willing to accept moderate investment by business angels, to create a more solid basis for development.Giulio Prisco (Guilio Prisco), May 20, 2015Source: bitcoinmagazine.com

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/20479/bitnation-pangea-releases-alpha-governance-system-based-blockchain/




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 23:17:43 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 03:17:43 -0300
Subject: Bitnation system.  Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55efce32.9d29370a.48c3c.0da1@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 06:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> http://bitnovosti.com/2015/06/04/bitnation-pangea-releases-alpha-governance-system-based-blockchain/
>


	http://www.bitnation-blog.com/




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Sep  8 21:55:30 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 04:55:30 +0000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSS3ZsEtKM7ByidioxEQf05iKpmA7zPmJCHoB+GZFgod3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/9/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://theintercept.com/2015/09/08/how-putin-controls-the-russian-internet/
> The key paragraph in Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan’s new book, The
> Red Web, comes surprisingly late, after the authors have described the
> long and ambitious construction of a wide-ranging, all-penetrating
> Internet surveillance and censorship system in Russia.
> ...
> Just as the Soviet system discovered that it did not need to exert
> total pressure in order to control its population, so the Kremlin has
> now demonstrated that it does not need to block every byte in order to
> exert utter dominance over information.

"In other words, by the 1970s the system had determined the minimum
amount of pressure required to turn these people into its willing
[information] executioners — and it was minimal indeed. A little bit
of privilege, even a decent salary combined with the opportunity to
practice one’s trade, was often enough."
...

A really unique situation, nothing like "the west". Just as well we
have the example of the USA in demonstrating true protection of
freedom of speech, democracy and the international rule of law -
almost had me worried there for a moment.




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 23:00:32 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 06:00:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Bitnation system.  Looks interesting.
Message-ID: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

http://bitnovosti.com/2015/06/04/bitnation-pangea-releases-alpha-governance-system-based-blockchain/

It's in Russian.Here is the automatic translation:

Bitnation released blokcheyn system of public administration
BY IMPGUN on 2015/06/04 • (53)Bitnation, project development blokcheyn system of public administration 2.0, headed by charismatic founder Suzanne Tarkovsky-Templhof (Susanne Tarkowski Tempelhof), released an alpha version of the platformBitnation Pangea. The release is version 0.1.0, and can not boast of stability and broad functionality, but it is based on the idea of a truly revolutionary and can have important consequences.«Bitnation - an operating system for the public administration 2.0, designed to undermine the oligopoly of nation states due to more convenient, secure and cost-effective management services, - said Bitcoin Magazine Templhof Tarkovsky, who worked for many years in various troubled regions of the world. - As the world due to globalization leaves the current paradigm of the nation-state, it is possible to implement a completely new solution that enables service providers to many competing public administration to take the place of states which for centuries maintained its geographical monopoly violent means. "Developers Bitnation Pangea want to create a platform for the world's first nation to blokcheyne that would provide all the services of traditional states and replace them with voluntary communities. The ultimate goal Bitnation - to create a new world in which everyone will be able to choose their nation, few nations do not choose none at all, or even create their own nation on the platform Bitnation.
"The alternative, which is now leaning to the world - a global organization in the spirit of the United Nations that the management plan will be even worse than the current structures, because they will try to mow one size fits all - says Tarkovsky-Templhof. - We strive to Bitnation prevent this development by creating an environment of competing service providers using blokcheyn Bitcoin - in fact, to develop a protocol kriptonatsy open source. "
The core platform consists of a system for tracking identity and reputation (passport Bitnation), of dispute resolution, the notary and libraries (decentralized) management applications in the style of "do it yourself", with which users can create, upload to the network, spread in share or sell their own (decentralized) management applications. The plans - services for marriages and wills, contracts for child care, birth certificates of land ownership, the establishment of corporations and trade interests in them, unemployment insurance and health insurance, pensions, security and diplomatic services.Alpha release, which is updated in real time in response to user feedback in discussion groups Bitnation, already includes some interesting features such as the ability to register blokcheyne document with a time stamp.Previous pilot projects include Bitnation first marriage registered in blokcheyne, and first-blokcheyn passport. Bitnation also developed land registry and successfully tested it in Ghana, where 70% of the land is not registered any property rights, which discourages investment and lending on the security of land.After studying many blokcheyn protocols developers Bitnation for the release of the first release of Pangea joined forces with the founders of Project Horizon and Blocknet. The alpha version used blokcheyn Horizon, but the technology will support Blocknet and other blokcheynov. According to Tarkovsky-Templhof, future releases will not be limited Pangea blokcheynami altkoynov, and be able to use blokcheyn Bitcoin, which should positively influence the prospects of the project.
«Bitnation - it is a truly innovative concept, and we are pleased to provide them with a platform for development - said Arlene Kalvik (Arlyn Culwick), one of the project participants Blocknet. - We believe that providing interaction blokcheynov, Blocknet will help unlock the full potential of blokcheyn technologies. "«Bitnation - a revolutionary idea, which we believe will radically change the world for the better - said Tarkovsky-Templhof in the previous press release. - And yet, as we are the first one who really tries to challenge the relevance of the construct of nation-states to implement existing ideas is sometimes not easy. "
One of the main problems is the financing of the project, so the group Bitnation, which until recently largely relied on the efforts of volunteers willing to accept moderate investment by business angels, to create a more solid basis for development.Giulio Prisco (Guilio Prisco), May 20, 2015Source: bitcoinmagazine.com
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From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Sep  9 05:21:36 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 08:21:36 -0400
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
  Russia
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."

Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
Board of Governors propaganda beat.

The Internet as an unprecedented global spying and propaganda machine
has been long noted and carefully exploited by all varieties of spies and
media -- used by all governments, but by US first and foremost.

For a few years the Information Highway was perceived as a marvelous
invention for public education and discourse, even a whiz-bang tool for shaping
politics and government, empowering the citizenry. Was long before it
was understood to be a gov-com-edu-org hegemon siphoning user data
indiscriminately, some openly, some secretly.

Encryption has been advocated to maintain citizen privacy and security. That
too has been exposed as illusory, but die-hard security promoters will not
sacrifice reputation and profits for perpetuating the notion that reliable
infosec and comsec are "the best we can do, don't expect absolute
security." Meanwhile continuting to rig standards and products to fit
USG contracting requirements. Keeping up with these requirements is
a top requirement for benefiting from official secrets.

Still unrevealed by Snowden is what he did as CIA IT employee for many
years before a few months deep undercover NOC as an NSA contractor.



At 12:25 AM 9/9/2015, you wrote:
>https://theintercept.com/2015/09/08/how-putin-controls-the-russian-internet/
>The key paragraph in Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan’s new book, The
>Red Web, comes surprisingly late, after the authors have described the
>long and ambitious construction of a wide-ranging, all-penetrating
>Internet surveillance and censorship system in Russia.
>...
>Just as the Soviet system discovered that it did not need to exert
>total pressure in order to control its population, so the Kremlin has
>now demonstrated that it does not need to block every byte in order to
>exert utter dominance over information.






From kanzure at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 09:39:51 2015
From: kanzure at gmail.com (Bryan Bishop)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:39:51 -0500
Subject: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>
 <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABaSBax3zoGtBbegRTp-sXU6TspAF6MuRQXo1Q4QH7UX8jjuTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
wrote:

> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.


http://cointelegraph.com/news/112725/bitnation-core-dev-team-resigns-speaks-out-before-crowdsale

- Bryan
http://heybryan.org/
1 512 203 0507
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From komachi at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep  9 07:14:29 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:14:29 +0000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <55F03EC5.5070504@openmailbox.org>

John Young:
> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
Soldatov is actually critical of Snowden mainly because of this
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andreisoldatov/how-edward-snowden-inadvertenly-helped-vladimir-putins-inter

> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
It's not fingerpointing. US is not the only country with surveillance.
Russia has surveillance. Many surveillance.

> The Internet as an unprecedented global spying and propaganda machine
> has been long noted and carefully exploited by all varieties of spies and
> media -- used by all governments, but by US first and foremost.
SORM works from 2000, it's hard to compare Russian and US surveillance
technologically, but Russia use it on larger scale for sure. SORM covers
100% of Internet connections, installing SORM is forced by law. But even
if US has the most advanced surveillance system, it doesn't mean that
you should ignore surveillance in other countries.

-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep  9 07:36:54 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:36:54 +0000
Subject: Russia failed to break Tor
Message-ID: <55F04406.2080109@openmailbox.org>

A company hired by the Russian Interior Ministry to identify users of
the Tor network, an anonymous Internet browser, has announced its plans
to terminate its state contract without finishing the task.

According to the Russian newspaper Kommersant, the Russian Interior
Ministry signed a series of contracts in 2013 and in 2014 with a company
called “the Central Scientific Institute for Economics, IT and
Management Systems” (CSI EIM) to study and to fight online anonymity.
The newspaper reports that CSI EIM has now hired lawyers, in order to
terminate its four government contracts.

Information about the contracts between CSI EIM and the Interior
Ministry is classified. According to an investigation conducted by
Kommersant, however, one of the agreements, under the code name “TOR
(Flot),” involved studying how to retrieve information about Tor users
and investigating what technologies Tor uses. CSI EIM was supposed to
earn 3.9 million rubles ($57,540) for the work.

In addition, CSI EIM won a government contract in 2014 for 20 million
rubles ($295,000), known under the code name “Chameleon-2,” involving
“the creation of a hardware and software complex for allowing secret and
anonymous remote access to strategically important information.”

The Interior Ministry has refused to comment.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/09/09/the-russian-government-hired-people-hack-the-tor-browser-but-they-failed-and-now-they-re-quitting


Tender to crack Tor
http://zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/zkk44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0373100088714000008
Archived version with Tor in description https://archive.is/gCweX
Tender that has info on termination of tender to crack Tor
http://zakupki.gov.ru/223/purchase/public/purchase/info/common-info.html?noticeId=2423688&epz=true

-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From mjbecze at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 09:41:56 2015
From: mjbecze at gmail.com (Martin Becze)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:41:56 +0000
Subject: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>
 <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g@mail.gmail.com>

>somewhat off
Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all of
the developers that were working on the project quite.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
wrote:

> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
>
> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
> to.
>
> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
>
> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
>
> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic. Neat.
> Unpretentious.
>
> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep  9 07:53:20 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:53:20 +0300
Subject: Russia failed to break Tor
In-Reply-To: <55F04406.2080109@openmailbox.org>
References: <55F04406.2080109@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20150909145320.GI2808@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 02:36:54PM +0000, Anton Nesterov wrote:
> A company hired by the Russian Interior Ministry to identify users of
> the Tor network, an anonymous Internet browser, has announced its plans
> to terminate its state contract without finishing the task.
>

What if this is disinformation?

You probably know who finances TOR.

If me broke TOR, me wouldn't like the TOR users to
know they are de-anonymized (this is hinted in Snowden's
docs).

Totally offtopic, but somewhat amusing:

URRGH! Evil app WATCHES YOU WATCHING PORN, snaps your grimace

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/08/pr0n_app_takes_blackmail_pics_ransom/





From rich at openwatch.net  Wed Sep  9 18:08:09 2015
From: rich at openwatch.net (Rich Jones)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:08:09 -0700
Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
Message-ID: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>

More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:

"Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."

https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968

Click through for pictures and Telegram number.

R
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From l at odewijk.nl  Wed Sep  9 09:30:53 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200
Subject: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>

It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.

I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends to.

I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.

Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.

I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic. Neat.
Unpretentious.

Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:02:34 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:02:34 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> > This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
> > Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
> > the US."
> > 
> > Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
> > Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> 
> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
> automagically make B not evil.


	Kindly point out where  JY said the russian government was not
	evil.

> 
> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia
> don't really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia
> magically okay.


	Kindly point out where JY said that what's happening in russia
	(whatever that is) is okay. 


	On the other hand rysiek given your laughable & constant
	defense of the pentagon-funded tor-cunts, you are not really in
	a position to be pointing too many fingers.

> 
> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
> USA-Russia relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> 

	...








From ryan.pear at ownbay.net  Wed Sep  9 13:53:35 2015
From: ryan.pear at ownbay.net (ryan.pear at ownbay.net)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:53:35 +0000
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
Message-ID: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>

We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.

Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
binaries!

Check here for release source code and client binaries:
https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2

About Repbin:
Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.

Learn more about Repbin here:
https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  9 14:48:56 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
Message-ID: <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

>About Repbin:
>Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
>Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
>each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
>and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>Learn more about Repbin here:
>https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?  The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining engine, I don't know.              Jim Bell



  
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From mezger.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 18:25:29 2015
From: mezger.benjamin at gmail.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:25:29 -0300
Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf@gmail.com>

Hmm,

"Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"

Well, I would agree with that, but that would probably break Telegram's
policy of "privacy", no?

Rich Jones writes:

> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
>
> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
>
> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>
> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
>
> R

-- 
Sent with my mu4e
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 21:16:48 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>

https://mcafee16.com/
http://cyberparty.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
http://www.whoismcafee.com/
http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
http://johnmcafeestory.com/




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Sep  9 15:47:31 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:47:31 +0200
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
> >About Repbin:
> >Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> >Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> >each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> >resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> >and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> >denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> >algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >Learn more about Repbin here:
> >https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> 
> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with
> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?

My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where 
proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or somesuch.

> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a
> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable
> to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining
> engine, I don't know.

Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other nodes. 
How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Sep  9 15:52:47 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
> 
> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
> Board of Governors propaganda beat.

The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically make B 
not evil.

The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't 
really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically 
okay.

Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because USA-Russia 
relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 22:18:50 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:18:50 -0400
Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29=9pK1sMjiu1+YGOMrPexrHpEk4mb36HF4ZxKj6mvY3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBNVMk_AGs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surespot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickr
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/

https://twitter.com/cybercaliphate
https://twitter.com/search?q=cybercaliphate
https://twitter.com/search?q=cyphercaliphate

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COOxuq-WIAAG8pQ.jpg
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cyber+caliphate

http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+vs+the+ISIS+Cyber+Caliphate++War+in+the+Middle+East+Goes+Digital/article37154.htm
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/isis-hacker-group-cyber-caliphate-hacks-article-1.2067634
https://news.vice.com/article/the-islamic-states-top-hacker-was-killed-in-a-us-drone-strike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
https://www.youtube.com/user/TeaMp0ison/videos
http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/documents/06-03-15-McCaul-Open.pdf
https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7FPdKXAAEucGl.jpg
https://twitter.com/lorenzoFB/status/638818414958477312
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-launches-secret-drone-campaign-to-hunt-islamic-state-leaders-in-syria/2015/09/01/723b3e04-5033-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html


> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WwAAmKzB.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WIAAJGAg.jpg
+9647705648252




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 22:43:58 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:43:58 -0400
Subject: Distributed Computing [was: Repbin release v0.0.2]
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_js8Rp8CiAFt48eZB_W0qGCxXNwtyMrp7Tgrx8r--MVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 5:48 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with

Plenty of distributed computing efforts out there... BOINC, SetiAtHome, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_computing

> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?  The
> most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a huge
> amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable to
> every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining
> engine, I don't know.

Back when mining was done with GPU's, maybe, utilizing the newly
installed base of GPGPU computing therein.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_computing_on_graphics_processing_units

Today all relavant mining is done with ASIC's, and all the installed
base of them
can do is SHA-256, so no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_network#Bitcoin_mining
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=76.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=81.0


rysiek wrote:
> My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where
> proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or somesuch.

Maybe I just saw some news about a distributed repo.
Too much distributed noise lately, so maybe not.
Central here, signing off...




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Thu Sep 10 03:21:42 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 03:21:42 -0700
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150910102125.CE6C2680224@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On September 10, 2015 2:17:07 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> Anyone else interested in a politicopunks@ email list?
> Zenaan

Yes.

-S





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 00:23:04 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 03:23:04 -0400
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>
 <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28qQ3ebTiN8TJ1N0BG69GABBGQ+Qn=2D2yrp4caFARKCg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Cathal (Phone)
<cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> No blockchains, but you've seen gittorrent right? :)

That's it. And actually, blockchains. The refs:

http://blog.printf.net/articles/2015/05/29/announcing-gittorrent-a-decentralized-github/
https://github.com/cjb/GitTorrent
http://code.google.com/p/gittorrent/

[gcode is dying, mirror if interested]




From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Sep 10 03:41:42 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 06:41:42 -0400
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbL_R=3L_Z977d75q2yn2uLTynXDo70ktNfaqp=bu5hwqg@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbL_R=3L_Z977d75q2yn2uLTynXDo70ktNfaqp=bu5hwqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1ZZzEm-0006JC-HW@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If its only about politics, why add to the monotonous brain-rot drivel.

Cypherpunks list covers politics and everything else, without
chopping up into marked-up and branded packages: politics,
civil liberties, NSA, crypto, privacy, online diddly. each with its
own political agenda, lobbyists, PACs, Dear Leaders, bribery,
followers, deranged oligarchs. Sure, cypherpunks suffers from
the same diseases as politics but, praise the holy founders,
suffers them all at once, not piecemeal, so develops anti-bodies
for all of them, to send the worms and germs to fight it out on
monodrone-weakened corpuses.

Finally, last two hours of a question soon over, cypherpunks
has gone through a long list of failures due to politics rising to
the surface as if that's all there is worth cut-throating about.
Offshoots have been set up to avoid politics as a topic, or
some other forbidden fruit iconizing a moderator's tits and ads.

 From those cpunk-siphoning Ashley Madisons have come weirdly
deformed creatures and mindsets, missing some capabilities,
overloaded with others -- evolving into the frankensteins of
secretkeeping, thematic dwarfs and thuggish giants, you might
say, like politicians and their sharks, press agents, campaign
and polling leeches determined and amply paid to make
politics the premier gobbler of subscribers' beliefs and fellow
soldiers of murderous religion.





From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Sep  9 23:44:48 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:44:48 +0100
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>

No blockchains, but you've seen gittorrent right? :)

On 9 September 2015 23:47:31 IST, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
>> >About Repbin:
>> >Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over
>Tor!
>> >Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts
>with
>> >each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>> >resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted
>messages)
>> >and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>> >denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>> >algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>> >Learn more about Repbin here:
>> >https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
>> 
>> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU
>work with
>> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
>
>My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain)
>where 
>proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or
>somesuch.
>
>> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could
>use a
>> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is
>valuable
>> to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a
>bitcoin-mining
>> engine, I don't know.
>
>Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other
>nodes. 
>How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)
>
>-- 
>Pozdrawiam,
>Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
>Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
>GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From schism at subverted.org  Thu Sep 10 07:09:29 2015
From: schism at subverted.org (schism at subverted.org)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 08:09:29 -0600
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSBGMu2nJ8FuaRdgo98gUfT2LAoZL3+KO30JketSYskWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbL_R=3L_Z977d75q2yn2uLTynXDo70ktNfaqp=bu5hwqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZzEm-0006JC-HW@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAOsGNSSBGMu2nJ8FuaRdgo98gUfT2LAoZL3+KO30JketSYskWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150910140929.GJ22432@lawl>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:10:44AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
| On 9/10/15, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
| > If its only about politics, why add to the monotonous brain-rot drivel.
| 
| One man's brain-rot drivel is another man's "ahah!" moment.

Or, perhaps the lack of an immediate (or at least frictionless) outlet
for brain-rot drivel might give one pause to consider whether it
warrants posting. Perhaps the resistance you feel is not to politics but
to the notability and usefulness of the content itself.

It is my experience that such forks are borne of individuals resenting
the friction inherent of open forums, not of wishing free and open
discourse.  If a forum is explicitly open and yet you experience
resistance to your ideas there are two probable causes.  One is that
those resisting are fools, the other is that you're full of shit.  One
would do best to consider both equally (even simultaneously) probable.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Sep 10 08:49:52 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 08:49:52 -0700
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F1A6A0.5010905@riseup.net>

On 09/09/2015 09:16 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> https://mcafee16.com/
> http://cyberparty.org/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> http://johnmcafeestory.com/
>

Two words, actually three. Lawrence. Lessig. Rational.

Something bad happened to McAfee's brain. Maybe he ate one too many
South American DMT-ridden plants or lizards. Besides, Feudal Libertarian.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/larry-lessig-launches-2016-democratic-presidential-bid-reform-campaign-finances-and

https://lessig2016.us/

Free Culture: http://www.free-culture.cc/freecontent/

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From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 02:05:02 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:05:02 +0000
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>

OK, so, so far pretty much every individual who makes it to a top
position of power, seems to start out with good intentions, only to
take a dive on their policies, principles and decency (illegal wars,
increasing internal monitoring, no roll back of victimless crimes, etc
etc).

How could John be potentially any different?

Perhaps he could have a 24/7 audio and video broadcast, in real time,
so the citizenry can monitor him at all times?

Perhaps someone could ask him a long list of Policy/Accountability
Promises Questions, and then he can be slashdot-questioned every 2
months on his performance on every one of his platform positions?

Has this guy been compromised already? (Compromising sex pictures,
drug charges kept under the table, monetary bribes/compromise.)

How can the usual types of compromise, which evidently occur for most
(all?) USA presidents in the last century, be handled by We the
People?

Would love to see some possibility of A Better Obama...




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 02:06:51 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:06:51 +0000
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone else interested in a politicopunks@ email list?
Zenaan




From tigrutigru at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 00:19:21 2015
From: tigrutigru at gmail.com (tigrutigru at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 09:19:21 +0200
Subject: Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.100.1441862357.1742.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
References: <mailman.100.1441862357.1742.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
Message-ID: <9F88CEB5-0C6D-4443-BE62-1731BFEC1F7E@gmail.com>

It seems like there's a confusion between contracts and cryotocontracts?

> On 10 Sep 2015, at 7:19 am, cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org wrote:
> 
> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>    cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
>      (Lodewijk andré de la porte)
>   2. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Bryan Bishop)
>   3. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Martin Becze)
>   4. Repbin release v0.0.2 (ryan.pear at ownbay.net)
>   5. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (jim bell)
>   6. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>      Russia (rysiek)
>   7. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>      Russia (Juan)
>   8. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (rysiek)
>   9. Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Rich Jones)
>  10. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Ben Mezger)
>  11. John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
>      (grarpamp)
>  12. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (grarpamp)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200
> From: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> To: Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net>
> Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
> 
> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends to.
Everyone loves ideas that Bitnation put their brand on. 
> 
> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
Exactly. Proof-of-existence. I don't understand what it has to do with Bitnation brand. Someone just wants to look cool. What exactly Bitnationare building? 
> 
> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
> 
> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> explained in contract.
Yes. Obligations can be explained. Still people go to courts and dispute contracts. These are text. 
> Contracts can go onto a blockchain.
Contracts which go on the blockchain have nothing to do with legal contracts. Parts of the text (legal) contracts can be hooked to a smart contract I guess. 
I guess if a married couple has a dispute over digital property or btc in a wallet, let's say a script can manage it, but how the script (smart contract) will know who in this particular dispute did what. Even with no details and subtleties involved.
> Generic. Neat.
> Unpretentious. 
> 
> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
Ideas are nice. They're not necessarily coming from Bitnation. Proof of existence, or Blockchain ID for example were existing ideas which had functioning prototypes. They just don't make it sound grandiose. 

Bitnation has a claim to be a software project and afaik has a presale of a currency - either premined or non existent - I don't remember. I'm fine with that type of crowdfunding if there is some sort of product or a service behind it or an attempt to build it. I don't think that contemporary art project should pretend to be a software project or pretend that it can realistically offer serious services or replace existing ones. It's cool as a concept project. 


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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:39:51 -0500
> From: Bryan Bishop <kanzure at gmail.com>
> To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>, Bryan Bishop
>    <kanzure at gmail.com>
> Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CABaSBax3zoGtBbegRTp-sXU6TspAF6MuRQXo1Q4QH7UX8jjuTw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> wrote:
> 
>> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> 
> 
> http://cointelegraph.com/news/112725/bitnation-core-dev-team-resigns-speaks-out-before-crowdsale
> 
> - Bryan
> http://heybryan.org/
> 1 512 203 0507
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:41:56 +0000
> From: Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com>
> To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> Message-ID:
>    <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
>> somewhat off
> Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all of
> the developers that were working on the project quite.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> wrote:
> 
>> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
>> 
>> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
>> to.
>> 
>> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
>> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
>> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
>> 
>> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
>> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
>> 
>> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
>> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
>> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic. Neat.
>> Unpretentious.
>> 
>> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:53:35 +0000
> From: ryan.pear at ownbay.net
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a at ownbay.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
> The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.
> 
> Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
> binaries!
> 
> Check here for release source code and client binaries:
> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2
> 
> About Repbin:
> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> 
> Learn more about Repbin here:
> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
> To: "ryan.pear at ownbay.net" <ryan.pear at ownbay.net>,
>    "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID:
>    <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
>> About Repbin:
>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>> Learn more about Repbin here:
>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?  The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining engine, I don't know.              Jim Bell
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>    Russia
> Message-ID: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu at lapuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
>> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
>> 
>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
>> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> 
> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically make B 
> not evil.
> 
> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't 
> really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically 
> okay.
> 
> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because USA-Russia 
> relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> 
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:02:34 -0300
> From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
>    Russia
> Message-ID: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> 
>> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
>>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
>>> Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
>>> the US."
>>> 
>>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
>>> Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
>> 
>> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
>> automagically make B not evil.
> 
> 
>    Kindly point out where  JY said the russian government was not
>    evil.
> 
>> 
>> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia
>> don't really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia
>> magically okay.
> 
> 
>    Kindly point out where JY said that what's happening in russia
>    (whatever that is) is okay. 
> 
> 
>    On the other hand rysiek given your laughable & constant
>    defense of the pentagon-funded tor-cunts, you are not really in
>    a position to be pointing too many fingers.
> 
>> 
>> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
>> USA-Russia relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> 
>    ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:47:31 +0200
> From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> Message-ID: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS at lapuntu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
>>> About Repbin:
>>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
>>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
>>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
>>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
>>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
>>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
>>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
>>> Learn more about Repbin here:
>>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
>> 
>> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work with
>> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
> 
> My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where 
> proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or somesuch.
> 
>> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a
>> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is valuable
>> to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a bitcoin-mining
>> engine, I don't know.
> 
> Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other nodes. 
> How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> 
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:08:09 -0700
> From: Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net>
> To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID:
>    <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> 
> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
> 
> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> 
> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> 
> R
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:25:29 -0300
> From: Ben Mezger <mezger.benjamin at gmail.com>
> To: miserlou at gmail.com
> Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hmm,
> 
> "Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
> hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"
> 
> Well, I would agree with that, but that would probably break Telegram's
> policy of "privacy", no?
> 
> Rich Jones writes:
> 
>> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
>> 
>> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new foreign
>> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
>> 
>> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>> 
>> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
>> 
>> R
> 
> -- 
> Sent with my mu4e
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400
> From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> https://mcafee16.com/
> http://cyberparty.org/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> http://johnmcafeestory.com/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:18:50 -0400
> From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD2Ti29=9pK1sMjiu1+YGOMrPexrHpEk4mb36HF4ZxKj6mvY3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
>> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBNVMk_AGs
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surespot
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickr
> https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/
> 
> https://twitter.com/cybercaliphate
> https://twitter.com/search?q=cybercaliphate
> https://twitter.com/search?q=cyphercaliphate
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COOxuq-WIAAG8pQ.jpg
> https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cyber+caliphate
> 
> http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+vs+the+ISIS+Cyber+Caliphate++War+in+the+Middle+East+Goes+Digital/article37154.htm
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/isis-hacker-group-cyber-caliphate-hacks-article-1.2067634
> https://news.vice.com/article/the-islamic-states-top-hacker-was-killed-in-a-us-drone-strike
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
> https://www.youtube.com/user/TeaMp0ison/videos
> http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/documents/06-03-15-McCaul-Open.pdf
> https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7FPdKXAAEucGl.jpg
> https://twitter.com/lorenzoFB/status/638818414958477312
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-launches-secret-drone-campaign-to-hunt-islamic-state-leaders-in-syria/2015/09/01/723b3e04-5033-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html
> 
> 
>> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
>> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WwAAmKzB.jpg
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WIAAJGAg.jpg
> +9647705648252
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 27, Issue 14
> *******************************************




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Thu Sep 10 10:34:39 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:34:39 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150910103439.d6780318dfee8d059b796997@virtadpt.net>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:


> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because USA-Russia 
> relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.

People are so trained to think in binary terms that pretty much every possible shade of grey is all but invisble.

Sad.

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Would a giant, profit-oriented cartel lie to you?" --David Letterman

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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 01:41:34 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:41:34 +0200
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 10 września 2015 00:16:48 grarpamp pisze:
> https://mcafee16.com/
> http://cyberparty.org/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> http://johnmcafeestory.com/

As a friend remarked:
"Oh, he'll probably be damn hard to uninstall"

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpRvaQsGIY8

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 01:45:27 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:45:27 +0200
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28qQ3ebTiN8TJ1N0BG69GABBGQ+Qn=2D2yrp4caFARKCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti28qQ3ebTiN8TJ1N0BG69GABBGQ+Qn=2D2yrp4caFARKCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1781186.Hs3iv2x76M@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 10 września 2015 03:23:04 grarpamp pisze:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Cathal (Phone)
> 
> <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> > No blockchains, but you've seen gittorrent right? :)
> 
> That's it. And actually, blockchains. The refs:
> 
> http://blog.printf.net/articles/2015/05/29/announcing-gittorrent-a-decentral
> ized-github/ https://github.com/cjb/GitTorrent
> http://code.google.com/p/gittorrent/
> 
> [gcode is dying, mirror if interested]

Yeah, the problem with this is how you actually have to pay to use it:

"Making any Bitcoin transaction on the blockchain I believe currently costs
 around $0.08 USD, so you pay your 8 cents to the miners and the network in
 compensation for polluting the blockchain with your 80 bytes of data."

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 01:52:56 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:52:56 +0200
Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
In-Reply-To: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3112968.fmgXWZSvIG@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 22:25:29 Ben Mezger pisze:
> Hmm,
> 
> "Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
> hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"

"Excuse me, @HammerManufacturer, somebody is using YOUR hammer/tool to kill 
small furry animals."

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Sep 10 10:58:34 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:58:34 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F1C4CA.2050000@riseup.net>

On 09/08/2015 09:25 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> https://theintercept.com/2015/09/08/how-putin-controls-the-russian-internet/
> The key paragraph in Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan’s new book, The
> Red Web, comes surprisingly late, after the authors have described the
> long and ambitious construction of a wide-ranging, all-penetrating
> Internet surveillance and censorship system in Russia.
> ...
> Just as the Soviet system discovered that it did not need to exert
> total pressure in order to control its population, so the Kremlin has
> now demonstrated that it does not need to block every byte in order to
> exert utter dominance over information.
>
>

Right. When the people believe in their government they exert PEER
PRESSURE on their community members to conform, for better or for worse.
That's one reason US society is coming apart at the seams. There is no
faith in the US government by the majority of it's citizens anymore.
> President Obama just like any other US politician is particularly keen
> on criticizing human rights situations in other countries, while
> glorifying the ideals of “American-style democracy.” ...
>
> ... But what do Americans themselves think about the value of this
> “American-style democracy?

http://journal-neo.org/2015/09/07/revolution-is-on-doorstep-is-the-us/

RR
"If I had a dime for every time a right-winger told me to leave the
country if I don't like it, I could leave the country." ~Timmy Smart

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From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 04:10:44 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:10:44 +0000
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <E1ZZzEm-0006JC-HW@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbL_R=3L_Z977d75q2yn2uLTynXDo70ktNfaqp=bu5hwqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZzEm-0006JC-HW@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSBGMu2nJ8FuaRdgo98gUfT2LAoZL3+KO30JketSYskWg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/15, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> If its only about politics, why add to the monotonous brain-rot drivel.

One man's brain-rot drivel is another man's "ahah!" moment.


> Cypherpunks list covers politics and everything else, without

That's what I thought ... except every now and then there are those
who don't want to hear comparative Russia-USA political talk, or
pro-Russia bias, or Australia-is-kinda-off-topic, or etc.

It is not my will to bypass the consensus intention for cypherpunks@
list; far from it - thus in the face of the "please can we keep
cypherpunks@ on-topic" whines, I figured we must be missing the list
some of us would like.

Whatever people want ... just needs to be clear, since "that's
offtopic!!!!!" and "you know who you are" get a little tiring after a
while...


> chopping up into marked-up and branded packages: politics,
> civil liberties, NSA, crypto, privacy, online diddly. each with its
> own political agenda, lobbyists, PACs, Dear Leaders, bribery,
> followers, deranged oligarchs.

Sure. My intention with politicopunks@ was to actually be "everything
that does not fit on cypherpunks@".

Some fokls around here seem to think various political topics are
offtopic for cypherpunks. I've only been here a year, so I don't
really know and just want a forum where it's ok to post anything I
personally find worth discussion.


> Sure, cypherpunks suffers from
> the same diseases as politics but, praise the holy founders,
> suffers them all at once, not piecemeal, so develops anti-bodies
> for all of them, to send the worms and germs to fight it out on
> monodrone-weakened corpuses.

:)


> Finally, last two hours of a question soon over, cypherpunks
> has gone through a long list of failures due to politics rising to
> the surface as if that's all there is worth cut-throating about.
> Offshoots have been set up to avoid politics as a topic, or
> some other forbidden fruit iconizing a moderator's tits and ads.

Forbidden fruit indeed - perfect terminology :)

If cypherpunks be unforbidden - as long as a poster has the stomach to
post - great :)


>  From those cpunk-siphoning Ashley Madisons have come weirdly
> deformed creatures and mindsets, missing some capabilities,
> overloaded with others -- evolving into the frankensteins of
> secretkeeping, thematic dwarfs and thuggish giants, you might
> say, like politicians and their sharks, press agents, campaign
> and polling leeches determined and amply paid to make
> politics the premier gobbler of subscribers' beliefs and fellow
> soldiers of murderous religion.

Thanks John,
Zenaan




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Thu Sep 10 11:17:26 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:17:26 -0700
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <6193628.0yFTp10ebS@lapuntu>
 <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150910111726.61793c19395185c54a7201f9@virtadpt.net>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:44:48 +0100
"Cathal (Phone)" <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> No blockchains, but you've seen gittorrent right? :)

Fossil, also:

https://www.fossil-scm.org/

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Never fdisk after midnight.

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From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 04:23:56 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:23:56 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Look out!!! - was Re: Australia must become a sovereign republic
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTfEwiqcw=GMcdMU-Vf_dN6uBxSFD3d+_DKQpziLPDW-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSTfEwiqcw=GMcdMU-Vf_dN6uBxSFD3d+_DKQpziLPDW-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST5f6w=c4zHx0J-WfBL5T1KWXNWUePpnfqaNPFd5Euceg@mail.gmail.com>

tl;dr:

- CEC - "change is good" peddlers in Australia.

- CEC says "Our government is doing bad stuff, we have problems,
therefore we must change our constitution by removing our titular
queen/'crown' to fix the problem of the scumbags in power," which is
of course bollocks.

- How can any constitution protect against apathetic acquiescing citizens.

- Is it possible that any "new" constitution (or constitutional
change) "put to us" might be formulated by opportunistic scumbags
currently in power, in order to grab more power to themselves?

:)
Z


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Zenaan Harkness
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 08:52:28 +0000
Subject: Look out!!! - was Re: Australia must become a sovereign republic

The CEC perpetrates serious misunderstandings in this email, and
DANGEROUS proposed actions!
The CEC's otherwise un-challenged assumptions must be rebutted, and
hopefully understood.
Read on if you have time...

On 9/10/15, CEC Media Release <cec at cecaust.com.au> wrote:
> 			Visit this link
> http://cecaust.com.au/releases/2015_09_10_Aus_Sovereign_Republic.html to
> recommend this to your friends
>
> Citizens Electoral Council of Australia
> Media Release  Thursday, 10 September 2015
> Craig Isherwood‚ National Secretary
> PO Box 376‚ COBURG‚ VIC 3058
> Phone: 1800 636 432
> Email: cec at cecaust.com.au
> Website: http://www.cecaust.com.au
>
>
> Australia must become a sovereign republic

The only way to do that would be to have a referendum changing the
foundations of our federal constitution - this is a VERY DANGEROUS
thing to do!

Gerrit Schorel-Hlavka, Andrew Moyle, Malcolm McClure, Mark McMurtrie
and many others have shown that our CURRENT CONSTITUTION is plenty
enough for those individuals who know which bits are important and are
willing to stand in court (from personal experience, that's a bloody
hard thing to do).

We have powerful foundations in our federal constitution of Australia,
and any referendum at this point will almost certainly TAKE POWER AWAY
from the people, power THAT WE ALREADY HAVE if we would only use it.

The problem is that the people of Australia DO NOT KNOW the power they
hold thanks to our current constitution, and "change at any cost" will
result in a WORSE SITUATION for all of us (except temporarily for
those who currently hold political power, i.e. politicians, and they
should know better since in time new politicians will replace them).


> Queen Elizabeth is not a powerless, benign figurehead. She is now the
> longest-reigning head of Britain’s oligarchical power
> structure which sits above the institutions of democracy.

She sits sort of above (in some very good ways mind you, at least with
respect to her duty to uphold Christian and other common law
foundations), but also in some ways she sits NEXT to our institutions
of power. And re Australia, she is more titular (sovereign in title)
than in the UK.


> Her role ensures
> that democratic power can never touch the network
> of wealthy families, private banks, corporate boardrooms, elite schools,
> permanent civil servants and secretive security
> agencies, reinforced by the system of royal honours, where real power
> resides in Britain, Australia, and every other state
> where the Queen is Monarch.

Absolute BOLLOCKS!

The tendency for those who don't know any better (such as myself 20
years ago at the first "make us a republic" referendum) is to:

1) Throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.

2) Assume that a referendum will improve things - any change will be
better (yeah right!).

3) Assume that good people, who know how to improve things, are the
ones who write the proposed options or "referendum questions" at any
referendum.

These assumptions are FALSE, and BLOODY DANGEROUS - since it is those
who currently have some political power, who want MORE power, and want
to get that additional power by TAKING it from we the people!

Is it you who writes the proposed new foundations to be put to
referendum? Is it me?
NO - it is not us, therefore why the hell should we think that what is
presented is going to be in our interest at all?

If the government REALLY wanted to improve things for us - that's
almost trivial to do - slash politician wages and pensions, eliminate
revenue raising by Police, stop making victimless crimes punishable
with jail, and plenty other common sense things, like don't bomb the
crap out of countries at the other side of the world of people who
think differently to us!  It's not that firetruckin difficult!


> The only way to bring this power-structure under democratic control is to
> replace the Queen with a democratic head of state,

Bollocks! The Queen is essentially titular anyway! And:

A) She (the "Crown") granted us our respectful and united request for
nationhood, with her blessing!

B) The naming of our titular sovereign in our federal constitution's
Preamble "under the Crown" is an AWESOME thing - this invokes the
PROTECTIONS of the crown - Bill of Rights 1688, The Great Charter, ie.
the Magna Carta 1215 and 1297. USE THESE AND REJOICE!

C) Besides our foundational BILL OF RIGHTS and the great MAGNA CARTA,
many other IMPERIAL ACTS are at our disposal - some of these are
awesome! Right to Trial by Jury? check! Right to be brought before the
Supreme Court and not be held indefinitely "on remand"? Writ of
Mandamus, check!!

D) Besides these and more wonderful things, the Crown is bound, and
similarly we have bound ourselves, in our federal constitution, to the
Blessing of Almighty God!
This Blessing is better than the rest of the protections of the Crown
combined - to learn why this is true is an excellent journey in
understanding, and highly recommended!

"So why are things so bad?" I hear you ask ... well, there are a bunch
of power-hungry, greedy, selfish, self-centered humans who lust for
positions in parliament, and so 'we' leave it to them since most of us
want to get on with a life, family, creativity, wealth and stability.
"Leaving it to them" is a major problem with we Aussies!

Also most "of us Aussies" do not know the awesome foundations in our
federal constitution - The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act
1900/1901/whatever - tear it down AT YOUR PERIL, fellow Australians!!!


> accountable to the people.

The Crown has a duty of care to the people, and that duty of care HAS
BEEN MET in the VERY FOUNDATIONS of our federal constitution!
Learn these foundations and enjoy the fruits!

We ought be thankful to the Crown, for providing to every one of us
Australians such an awesome foundation! It was hard won for sure -
some tough negotiating back and forth between our Aussie delegates
(our founding fathers), and the Crown, and the British Parliament -
but we got there, we got our nation and we kept the protections of the
Crown, and we got the protections of the Blessing of Almighty God.

Just because we might have a bunch of crooks who've taken power in our
parliament today, does not mean we have a fundamentally broken system!
We have a fundamentally good system, with some bad (selfish and
compromised) people! As Malcolm has said many times - better to have
bad people in a good system, than good people in a bad system - the
bad system will deteriorate MUCH QUICKER! Our current constitutional
monarchy system has withstood over 100 years of internal attacks and
opportunists.


> It is past time Australia did this, and finally
> became an independent sovereign nation.

Warning, this is what those in power want. Every few years they try
again to turn us into a republic!

So what should we want?

The Crown HAS satisfied its duty of care to the people - this might
sound strange, but in fact it is true. What is also true is that our
state (i.e. our state and federal parliaments) have a duty of care to
us as well - and on this front there are many failures.

Finally and MOST IMPORTANTLY, it is also true that WE, the people,
have a duty of care to our state (i.e. our state and federal, and also
local for that matter, parliaments) - we the people have THOROUGHLY
FAILED in our duty of care to our own state/ our system of government,
our constitutional monarchy and the protection of our federal
constitution!

Absorb that, and know why we have problems. No matter what "system" we
have, if we, the people, fail to satisfy our duty of care to our own
bloody state, then we deserve the problems we get and no constitution
in the world will ever do it for us!

Sure, blame the government, blame the Crown and blame our constitution
- but in the case of us here in Australia, blaming anything outside of
ourselves won't help a bit, and a new constitution will not only NOT
solve the problem, it almost certainly will create a WORSE PROBLEM,
and the protections of the Crown, and the Blessing of Almighty God,
are protections we should NEVER GIVE UP.

NOTE CAREFULLY - even the SMALLEST CHANGE to the Preamble of our
federal constitution, will allow the LAWYERS and POLITICIANS and
JUDGES to reinterpret all the rest of our constitution, name us a
republic and/ or a secular state and remove the protections of the
BLESSING OF ALMIGHTY GOD.

Let me repeat, whether you are religious or not, never give up the
protections of the Blessing of Almighty God, as invoked by our
founding fathers in our federal constitution. Give up these
protections at your peril.


> Here are the facts about the Queen’s power. In “The Real British Empire”,
> published in the CEC’s October-November 2011 New
> Citizen newspaper, the CEC reported a partial list of the Queen’s actual
> powers, sourced from Burke’s Peerage and Baronetage.
> Among her so-called Royal Prerogative powers, the Queen:
> 	*  alone declares war at her pleasure;

And corrupt Australian politicians play lap dog to USA and Britain
(/the Queen/ whatever)!

> 	*  is commander-in-chief, and may choose and appoint all commanders and
> officers by land, sea, and air;

Just as the president of the USA is commander-in-chief of the combined
military forces of the USA.

Just as there is some possibly analogous situation in Australia which
no-one knows for sure but if we read our constitution we'd probably
find out about.

> 	*  may convoke, adjourn, remove, and dissolve Parliament;

British parliament. And perhaps via the governor general, the
parliament of Australia. I don't know the details here. But do note,
when (if) we the people finally learn to express our will of the
people, for example oh that's right, establishing our nationhood as
states federating in a commonwealth under the Crown and by the
Blessing of Almighty God, then the Queen/Crown has been known to
assent to said will of the people.

But bloody hell mate, we have to speak up. And we need to speak in
relative unity.

If we can't unite in any demand of our politicians, for example to
slash politician wages, how the hell do we think we'll ever get a
better deal at a referendum scripted and orchestrated by those same
politicians? Dream on...


> 	*  may dismiss the prime minister and choose his or her replacement;

That sounds specific to UK, but whatever.


> 	*  alone may conclude treaties.

Certainly here in Australia we sign to treaties by our own
parliament's sovereign right and authority.


> In practice, the British Prime Minister exercises these powers in the UK;
> in Australia they are exercised by the Governor-General
> under the advice of the Prime Minister. Nevertheless, they are her powers,
> and the British PM consults with her closely, in
> weekly face-to-face meetings and daily communications conveyed in her red
> boxes; Australia’s PM consults almost as closely with
> the Governor-General.
>
> Unlike the US president, for comparison, her powers are not defined, and
> therefore limited, by a written constitution—the British
> “constitution” is an unwritten system of feudalistic conventions and
> precedents. Australia does have a written constitution, but
> the Queen’s powers are largely undefined and untouched, which is
> acknowledged in the “reserve powers” clause in the list of powers
> of her Governor-General. (One power of the Queen that is defined in the
> Australian constitution is her power to overrule any law
> passed by the Australian parliament within 12 months of its passage.)
> Australian constitutional law expert Ann Twomey called this
> disguised but very real power of the Queen in Australia’s system the
> chameleon Crown, which “takes great care to protect itself
> by blending into its background so carefully that its presence is barely
> perceptible”. (The Chameleon Crown: The Queen and Her
> Australian Governors, by Ann Twomey).

The Chameleon Crown - ok, haven't heard that one before.  That can
also be described as "historically significantly neutered Crown".  A
rose is a rose...


> Take probably the most awesome of her powers, the power to declare war.
> This is not a power of the US president, who is ostensibly
> the most powerful person in the world. The British PM can declare war
> without consulting parliament, as Tony Blair did on Iraq in
> 2003, because the PM uses the Queen’s power to do so. The Australian
> PM can similarly declare war without the democratic
> accountability of consulting parliament, under our British-crafted system.
>
> The current UK Labour Party leadership campaign has produced a revealing
> insight into just how undemocratic the British Crown system
> is. London’s 31 August 2015 Telegraph newspaper launched an hysterical
> attack on front-runner Jeremy Corbyn for suggesting that the
> elected parliament should have a veto over the Crown’s Royal Prerogative
> powers. Corbyn reportedly said, “The Royal Prerogative
> should be subject to Parliamentary vote and veto if necessary. The Queen
> hands her powers to the Prime Minister and he can then
> exercise them. It’s a very convenient way of bypassing Parliament. Also,
> orders in council are a very convenient way of bypassing
> Parliament.”
>
> Whereas most Britons, and Australians, would assume that parliament
> already does have the final say, the hysterical reaction to
> Corbyn’s modest proposal proved emphatically otherwise, and indeed, just
> how much the Queen’s position is dependent on not being
> accountable to the elected parliament. The Telegraph quoted historian (and
> Tony Blair’s biographer) Sir Anthony Seldon telling
> LBC radio:
> “It’s hard to know what would be left of the monarchy. The fact that Jeremy
>
> Corbyn is saying that, would be seen as an assault on
> the monarchy. It would be crossing the Rubicon. He would be the first
> Labour leader who started talking about a reduction in the
> role of the monarchy. It would be very serious.”
>
> What is more serious is that an unelected hereditary monarch has that
> much power over elected institutions. That power is enshrined

Historically, "benevolent dictatorships" are also one of the most
stable forms of societal structure - yes it requires ongoing
benevolence of the monarch/dictator though, of course, yet exactly the
same thing must be said of our "democratic" parliament - our
Australian federal parliament is pretty non-benevolent these days,
with incredibly feathered nests, declarations of war around the world,
pervasive spying on its own population, and an endless litany of
enforced victimless crimes...


> in the system of hereditary monarchy, which the Crown will kill,
> and has killed, to protect. Princess Diana was the last great
> threat to the House of Windsor’s control of the British Crown, her
> openness leading to scandalous insights into how the Monarchy
> really functioned. Australian-based investigator John Morgan concluded,
> from his forensic investigation of her death, that the Queen,
> whose first duty is to the continuation of the Monarchy, ordered her
> assassination and the subsequent cover-up.
> (Visit this link
> http://cecaust.com.au/releases/2015_02_19_Royal_Scandal.html)
>
> In a true republic, sovereignty comes from the people. Abraham Lincoln
> expressed this principle most profoundly at the end of his
> 1863 Gettysburg Address, when he called on his fellow citizens to ensure
> “that government of the people, by the people, for the
> people, shall not perish from the earth”.

Oh right, America/ USA is a wonderful example of democracy today!
</sarcasm>


> It is time that Australians see through the carefully stage-managed PR
> campaign around the Queen, and resolve to become, finally,
> an independent sovereign nation. The CEC has been committed to that cause
> since its inception—join us.

> Authorised: Robert Barwick‚ 595 Sydney Rd‚ Coburg‚ Vic 3058

No.  Firetrucking.  Way.

I didn't realise the CEC had sold out common sense.

Watch out people - the road to hell is paved with good intentions,
like diluting our local tribe with an endless parade of
sympathy-snatching refugees from illegal wars perpetrated by our own
government no less.

I hope we Aussies can wake up. I really really hope so.

Good luck Australia,
Zenaan




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 04:29:30 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:29:30 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST=sWr8_XdP6fyTqKSCRF8=VA_+h3H8_uf9c3jM+SBJfA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 07:09:24 +0000
Subject: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
droves.

Hi Jim, a good question indeed. At Germany's 6% Islamic population set
to grow to 12% in the next few years, there is going to be quite the
shift there in the next couple of years.

Some questions which Germans might ask themselves:

1) Do ethnic Germans, who are citizens of Germany have:
 - the right to racial strength, and or
 - the right to cultural strength, and or
 - the right to political strength, and or
 - the right to religious strength,
in their own country (Germany)?

2) Is it racist for ethnic Germans of Germany to want to maintain
their political majority in Germany?

3) We note that Islamic Muslims strongly practice and proclaim their
rights to racial strength, cultural strength, religious strength, and
political strength, and more than this, the right to change/ convert
any and all non-Muslim jurisidictions (countries or part thereof) to
Sharia Law and Muslim religion. So:
- Are German citizens so naive to think that Muslims will change, just
because they crossed a "border"?

Regards,
Zenaan


On 9/7/15, Jim <jim.sovereign at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> FW: REFUGEE INVASION OF EUROPE.I wonder if Germany is committing cultural
> and social suicide by allowing almost unrestrained admission of Islamic
> migrant refugees. Many European countries are not as welcoming as Germany
> towards the massive influx of refugees, and with good reason given the
> problems caused by Muslims refusing to assimilate into their host country.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ------ Forwarded Message ------
> From: Frank & Halina <ffultiak at websurf.net.au>
> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 18:07:27 +1000
> Subject: REFUGEE INVASION OF EUROPE.
>
>
> At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves
>
> Hundreds embrace Christianity in possible effort to boost chances of winning
> asylum, although most claim to be true believers
>
> THE TIMES OF ISRAEL
> By Kirsten Grieshaber
> September 5, 2015
>
>
>
> Iranian asylum-seeker Aref Movasaq Rodsari stands in the Trinity Church in
> Berlin, Germany, Aug. 13, 2015. (AP/Gero Breloer)
> Related Topics
>   a.. Germany
>   b.. migrant crisis
>   c.. Syria
> BERLIN (AP) - Mohammed Ali Zonoobi bends his head as the priest pours holy
> water over his black hair. "Will you break away from Satan and his evil
> deeds?" pastor Gottfried Martens asks the Iranian refugee. "Will you break
> away from Islam?"
> "Yes," Zonoobi fervently replies. Spreading his hands in blessing, Martens
> then baptizes the man "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy
> Ghost."
>
> Mohammed is now Martin - no longer Muslim, but Christian.
>
> Zonoobi, a carpenter from the Iranian city of Shiraz, arrived in Germany
> with his wife and two children five months ago. He is one of hundreds of
> mostly Iranian and Afghan asylum seekers who have converted to Christianity
> at the evangelical Trinity Church in a leafy Berlin neighborhood.
>
> Like Zonoobi, most say true belief prompted their embrace of Christianity.
> But there's no overlooking the fact that the decision will also greatly
> boost their chances of winning asylum by allowing them to claim they would
> face persecution if sent home.
>
> Martens recognizes that some convert in order to improve their chances of
> staying in Germany - but for the pastor motivation is unimportant. Many, he
> said, are so taken by the Christian message that it changes their lives. And
> he estimates that only about 10 percent of converts do not return to church
> after christening.
>
> "I know there are - again and again - people coming here because they have
> some kind of hope regarding their asylum," Martens said. "I am inviting them
> to join us because I know that whoever comes here will not be left
> unchanged."
>
> Being Christian alone does not help an applicant, and Chancellor Angela
> Merkel went out of her way this week to reiterate that Islam "belongs in
> Germany." But in Afghanistan and Iran, for example, conversion to
> Christianity by a Muslim could be punished by death or imprisonment, and it
> is therefore unlikely that Germany would deport converted Iranian and Afghan
> refugees back home.
>
> None will openly admit to converting in order to help their asylum chances.
> To do so could result in rejection of their asylum bid and deportation as
> Christian converts. Several candidates for baptism at Martens' church would
> not give their names out of fear of repercussions for their families back
> home.
>
> Most said their decision was based on belief, but one young Iranian woman
> said she was convinced most people had joined the church only to improve
> their chances for asylum.
>
> Congregation member Vesam Heydari initially applied for asylum in Norway and
> converted there in 2009. But his case was rejected because the Norwegian
> authorities did not believe he would be persecuted as a Christian in Iran,
> so he moved to Germany to seek refugee status here - and is awaiting a
> decision. He criticized many of the other Iranian church members, saying
> they were making it much harder for "real, persecuted Christians" like
> himself to get approved for asylum.
>
> "The majority of Iranians here are not converting out of belief," Heydari
> said. "They only want to stay in Germany."
>
> Meanwhile, as other churches across Germany struggle with dwindling numbers
> of believers, Martens has seen his congregation swell from 150 just two
> years to more than 600 parishioners now - with a seemingly unending flow of
> new refugees finding the way to his congregation. Some come from cities as
> far away as Rostock on the Baltic Sea, having found out by word-of-mouth
> that Martens not only baptizes Muslims after a three-month "crash course" in
> Christianity, but also helps them with asylum pleas.
>
> Other Christian communities across Germany, among them Lutheran churches in
> Hannover and the Rhineland, have also reported growing numbers of Iranians
> converting to Christendom. There are no exact numbers on how many Muslims
> have converted in Germany in recent years - and they are a tiny minority
> compared to the country's overall 4 million Muslims. But at least for
> Berlin, Martens describes the number of conversions as nothing short of a
> "miracle." And he says he has at least another 80 people - mostly refugees
> from Iran and a few Afghans - waiting to be baptized.
>
> Germany is witnessing an unprecedented surge of asylum-seekers this year,
> with the number of migrants expected to reach 800,000 this year, a fourfold
> increase on last year.
>
>
> Pastor Gottfried Martens prays with people from Iran during a baptism
> service in the Trinity Church in Berlin, Aug. 30, 2015. (AP/Markus
> Schreiber)
>
> Many of the new arrivals come from Muslim countries such as Syria, Iraq,
> Afghanistan or Pakistan. While refugees from civil-war-torn Syria will
> almost definitely be receiving asylum status, the situation is more
> complicated for asylum seekers from Iran or Afghanistan, which are seen as
> more stable. In recent years, roughly 40-50 percent from those two countries
> have been allowed to stay in the country, with many of those getting only
> temporary permission to remain.
>
> Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees said it does not comment
> on the reasons individual applicants give when they apply for asylum, or on
> how many people receive refugee status in Germany based on religious
> persecution.
>
> Zonoobi, who dressed all in white for his baptism on Sunday, said he had
> attended secret religious services in Iran ever since friends introduced him
> to the Bible at age 18. He decided to flee to Germany after several
> Christian friends were arrested for practicing their religion.
>
> For Zonoobi and his wife Afsaneh - who since her baptism goes by the name of
> Katarina - the christening marks a new beginning.
>
> "Now we are free and can be ourselves," she said. "Most important, I am so
> happy that our children will have a good future here and can get a good
> education in Germany."
>
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/at-a-berlin-church-muslim-refugees-converting-in-droves/
>




From afalex169 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 02:11:48 2015
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:11:48 +0300
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbL_R=3L_Z977d75q2yn2uLTynXDo70ktNfaqp=bu5hwqg@mail.gmail.com>

Absolutely yes.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 09:12:45 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:12:45 -0400
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <20150910150514.GD2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910150514.GD2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti289aFGsrqQa83LEkgNYNg-=NZ=kz4ZU-vYega9Urk_5zQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> Your proposed list might get full of sheeple IMHO if it
> hits search engines...

Any "punk" list should result in some fraction of posts per month
having the potential to get someone fired from work, divorced from
their spouse, tracked by govt agents, infected with the worst malware,
etc just for subscribing / reading messages. And trolled doxed and
cracked by the same and other participants just for posting.
Sheeple are boring and ignorant, the mere knowledge of the existance
of any such list should cause immense pressure to build in their cranium,
and should they survive that, well... welcome to the rabbit hole.
Otherwise there ain't much punk in it.




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Thu Sep 10 13:02:33 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:02:33 -0700
Subject: Library installs Tor exit node; pulls plug after pressure from DHS
In-Reply-To: <14fb8d70f10.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>

Via Propublica:
http://www.propublica.org/article/library-support-anonymous-internet-browsing-effort-stops-after-dhs-email

More background:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/crypto-activists-announce-vision-for-tor-exit-relay-in-every-library/

The project itself:
https://libraryfreedomproject.org/torexitpilotphase1/

The library board meets on the 15th of this month and will decide whether 
to turn it back on.

-S





From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Thu Sep 10 10:11:47 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:11:47 -0400
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
Message-ID: <N1B-Yyv5UjseYL@Safe-mail.net>

John's a joke and has few if any practical answers to the social and economic ills that plague the U.S. OTOH, Mike "Mish" Shedlock has thought deeply and written extensively. If I were a voter I'd surely seriously consider a write-in for him.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/08/mish-for-president-officially-throwing.html

WW
-------- Original Message --------
From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400

> https://mcafee16.com/
> http://cyberparty.org/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> http://johnmcafeestory.com/




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Thu Sep 10 10:18:23 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:18:23 -0400
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
Message-ID: <N1B-pMdB2DqyjP@Safe-mail.net>

Another darknet "pastbin" alternative: 
DNCA - DarkNet Coder Assembly
http://shn3x3whdm5tuut4.onion/

Its hosted by anarplex a long-time operator of community and dark nets.

Ryan Pear wrote:
> We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
> The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.
> 
> Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
> binaries!
> 
> Check here for release source code and client binaries:
> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2
> 
> About Repbin:
> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!




From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Sep 10 10:47:01 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:47:01 -0400
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti289aFGsrqQa83LEkgNYNg-=NZ=kz4ZU-vYega9Urk_5zQ@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910150514.GD2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti289aFGsrqQa83LEkgNYNg-=NZ=kz4ZU-vYega9Urk_5zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1Za5ru-0003xZ-0Z@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

A list about assassination politics means and methods advancing
and implementing the original could lead to a round-up of those with
too few degrees of separation since 1992.





From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep 10 04:39:08 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:39:08 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150910113908.GB2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>

FYI:

This is on libressl-dev:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.libressl/74
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.libressl

(so far they didn't piss me off).

Also on [openssl-users]:
https://mta.openssl.org/pipermail/openssl-users/2015-September/002033.html

They consider all of these "features", so I am not trolling
them anymore.




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep 10 04:41:26 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:41:26 +0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 09:05:02AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Would love to see some possibility of A Better Obama...

Definitely the cpunk juan :)

juan for president!!!!!!

he might give the scumbags hard time, not sure.


;)




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 13:01:21 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:01:21 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:41:26 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 09:05:02AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Would love to see some possibility of A Better Obama...
> 
> Definitely the cpunk juan :)
> 
> juan for president!!!!!!


Thank you Georgi. We need an anarchist president who would fight for
our anarchist constitution. Those are the pilars of our anarchist
state. Otherwise chaos would ensue.


> 
> he might give the scumbags hard time, not sure.

Hm. That's a nice ring - it might fit me. But I think I'll pass =P 

 
> 
> ;)




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 13:23:22 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:23:22 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <1496599.pQDEvE90ES@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
 <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5@mx.google.com>
 <1496599.pQDEvE90ES@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55f1e5cb.cb158c0a.1caa6.311d@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:26:58 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:


> One could argue that using the term "fingerpointing" to refer to
> potential criticism of Putin's regime, and calling people who do just
> that "those working the Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda
> beat" might be taken as more or less just that, or at least of
> turning the attention away from what's going on in Russia, but I also
> might just had a knee-jerk moment. :)
> 

	Well, I can see how putin and friends aren't exactly ideal
	neighbors...




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep 10 08:05:14 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:05:14 +0300
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSc2rAjN1ZzF9h5a0cAzqmfQ8vSj0o0eeco=qFvkhVNWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150910150514.GD2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 09:06:51AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Anyone else interested in a politicopunks@ email list?
> Zenaan

If you ask me, the current list is going well
and nobody got banned for trolling about politics.

I don't read all threads on purpose, there is too
much info.

IIRC there is a principle like "if it isn't broken, don't
fix it".

btw, I am surprised how the LEAs didn't manage to DOS this
list with spam.

Your proposed list might get full of sheeple IMHO if it
hits search engines...

-- 
Cheers




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Sep 10 19:14:08 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:14:08 -0600
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F238F0.9050302@riseup.net>

On 09/10/2015 06:11 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 9/10/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:41:26 +0300
>> Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 09:05:02AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>>>> Would love to see some possibility of A Better Obama...
>>>
>>> Definitely the cpunk juan :)
>>>
>>> juan for president!!!!!!
>>
>>
>> Thank you Georgi. We need an anarchist president who would fight for
>> our anarchist constitution. Those are the pilars of our anarchist
>> state. Otherwise chaos would ensue.
>>
>>
>>> he might give the scumbags hard time, not sure.
>>
>> Hm. That's a nice ring - it might fit me. But I think I'll pass =P

Here's a funny story. In late 2006, I think, I came across Hillary
Clinton's campaign website. They wanted recommendations for a campaign
theme song. Feeling fey, I suggested "If I Was [sic] President" by
Wyclef Jean. That was before President Obama had become a leading
candidate. What a joke.

I'm not claiming that Wyclef Jean is an anarchist. But it's at least
arguable that he's a decent man. So it goes.

> The test perhaps ought be, can you (/we) elucidate anarchist beliefs,
> benefits, cautions, etc, to enough people such that someone who's not
> you chooses to run for president on an anarchist platform?
> 
> Such changes can surely only occur with the leverage of "getting it
> out there, and "it" being appealing to enough of the general
> population".
> 
> Juan, are there aspects of political anarchism (I think we need a term
> other than "anarchy" if we want Joe Sixpack to not glaze over) which
> you have personal doubts about, or you're not sure about how best to
> handle, or even unsure about how to educate others about? Perhaps
> another thread though... but I am seriously interested in a more
> nuanced discussion than "those USG cunts" ;)
> 




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Sep 10 19:42:30 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:42:30 -0600
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55f236df.335f8c0a.74437.6104@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
 <20150910103439.d6780318dfee8d059b796997@virtadpt.net>
 <CAOsGNSQqpYLhzH+JcCnfMC4bqD9DTizgmO9=g6oxidH-mOhMPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f236df.335f8c0a.74437.6104@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <55F23F96.6010401@riseup.net>

On 09/10/2015 08:09 PM, Juan wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:57:19 +0000
> Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> and I say this is a damn good thing and we are fortunate that "Russia"
>> has produced someone like this - perhaps not so fortunate for some
>> Russians inside Russia, but extraordinarily important, and good, for
>> the world as a whole. USA hegemon had to be ended, and it's almost
>> done but the shoutin'.
> 
> 	As far as the US empire being finished, I don't see the process
> 	as 'almost done'. Rather, it looks as if the US empire keeps
> 	expanding and now 'almost' controls the whole fucking
> 	world, either directly or by proxy.

Russia has two huge problems. One is alcoholism. Not as bad as Finland,
for sure, but worse than the UK. The other is the Jewish exodus to
Israel etc. Back in the day, it was sober (relatively speaking) Jews who
mostly did the technical stuff. Hell, Lenin was a Jew, along with much
of the early Party. And by the way, he was funded by Kaiser Wilhelm's
government, to create chaos and keep Russia out of WWI ;)

> 	As to putin and co. they aren't any better than the nato mafia.
> 	As a temporary measure I do agree it's good that the american
> 	nazis get 'counterbalanced'. But it's not really a long term 
> 	solution. 

Actually, they're all Nazis. Maybe not literally, but they're all
national socialists. The US is a national socialist state that pretends
to be a representative democracy. The CCCP was a national socialist
state that pretended to be communist. Now it pretends to be a
representative democracy. Nazi Germany at least let its national
socialism hang free. Also, many Nazi intelligence officers, scientists
and propaganda experts ended up in Russia and the US. So bottom line,
it's arguable that they all cooperate far more than most folks think.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 18:21:32 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:21:32 -0400
Subject: Library installs Tor exit node; pulls plug after pressure from DHS
In-Reply-To: <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>
References: <14fb8d70f10.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> Via Propublica:
> http://www.propublica.org/article/library-support-anonymous-internet-browsing-effort-stops-after-dhs-email
>
> More background:
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/crypto-activists-announce-vision-for-tor-exit-relay-in-every-library/
>
> The project itself:
> https://libraryfreedomproject.org/torexitpilotphase1/
>
> The library board meets on the 15th of this month and will decide whether to
> turn it back on.

A lot of support should be lent right now to the city managers, library board,
and the community. You don't want the first one to be publicly quashed by
a bunch of shameful LEA fearmongering.
Show up the board meeting, you can bet they will.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 12:23:03 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:23:03 +0200
Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
In-Reply-To: <20150910111726.61793c19395185c54a7201f9@virtadpt.net>
References: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a@ownbay.net>
 <9F38E5C3-C960-4AB2-A486-314613DAD8AC@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150910111726.61793c19395185c54a7201f9@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <1757499.BYWXdb4BeS@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 10 września 2015 11:17:26 The Doctor pisze:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:44:48 +0100
> 
> "Cathal (Phone)" <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> > No blockchains, but you've seen gittorrent right? :)
> 
> Fossil, also:
> 
> https://www.fossil-scm.org/

Yeah, I've known about it for some time. Thing is, it doesn't solve the 
"discoverability" problem GitHub solves... GitTorrent/Gitchain have the 
ability to do just that.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 12:26:58 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:26:58 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu> <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1496599.pQDEvE90ES@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 20:02:34 Juan pisze:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> > > This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
> > > Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
> > > the US."
> > > 
> > > Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
> > > Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> > 
> > The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
> > automagically make B not evil.
> 
> 	Kindly point out where  JY said the russian government was not
> 	evil.

One could argue that using the term "fingerpointing" to refer to potential 
criticism of Putin's regime, and calling people who do just that "those 
working the Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat" might be taken as 
more or less just that, or at least of turning the attention away from what's 
going on in Russia, but I also might just had a knee-jerk moment. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 10 12:32:40 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 21:32:40 +0200
Subject: Traffic analysis at Bletchley Park
In-Reply-To: <20150908104337.GU7320@ctrlc.hu>
References: <CA+jsSL-K2-c9bA-+zrY7cVT_to_48ZqLz+bOmCJmYsm0MRzrUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150908104337.GU7320@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <12765775.0J2RpODF69@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 8 września 2015 12:43:37 stef pisze:
> On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 08:42:13PM -0400, Veg wrote:
> > Good documentary on an underreported aspect of the work by the
> > codebreakers
> > at Bletchley Park:
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b069gxz7
> 
> maybe liberating this from stupid geolocation based discrimination would be
> a service for all readers of this list.

How would they analyze the traffic then?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 19:09:26 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:09:26 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQqpYLhzH+JcCnfMC4bqD9DTizgmO9=g6oxidH-mOhMPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
 <20150910103439.d6780318dfee8d059b796997@virtadpt.net>
 <CAOsGNSQqpYLhzH+JcCnfMC4bqD9DTizgmO9=g6oxidH-mOhMPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55f236df.335f8c0a.74437.6104@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:57:19 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:


> and I say this is a damn good thing and we are fortunate that "Russia"
> has produced someone like this - perhaps not so fortunate for some
> Russians inside Russia, but extraordinarily important, and good, for
> the world as a whole. USA hegemon had to be ended, and it's almost
> done but the shoutin'.

	As far as the US empire being finished, I don't see the process
	as 'almost done'. Rather, it looks as if the US empire keeps
	expanding and now 'almost' controls the whole fucking
	world, either directly or by proxy.

	As to putin and co. they aren't any better than the nato mafia.
	As a temporary measure I do agree it's good that the american
	nazis get 'counterbalanced'. But it's not really a long term 
	solution. 





From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 16:44:52 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:44:52 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <55F1F9C9.9070009@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNST=sWr8_XdP6fyTqKSCRF8=VA_+h3H8_uf9c3jM+SBJfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F1F9C9.9070009@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/15, C wrote:
> In the face of genetics, which reveals that inter-german variability far
> outstrips the genetic basis of what we define as "race", I'd like to see
> you define "Ethnicity" meaningfully.

What does that matter to the essence of the question?

The fundamental question is the same, whatever words we use. A rose is
a rose by any other name.

Perhaps we could ask "currently franchised (those who may vote)
Germans" - the point is, do those who are presently gathered in a
current physical 'locality' have the right to protect their current
racial/ genetic/ demographic/ cultural/ political/ religious "mix",
whatever it is, against dilution from immigration, asylum,
"democratic" coup (e.g. Ukraine today) or religious missionaries of
any faith?

The opium wars in China suggest that trying to infiltrate ones
religion into a 'foreign' nation may not be altogether appreciated by
the locals - and Islamic Muslims are pretty vehement about this too
from what I hear - why shouldn't predominantly Christian (or
atheistic, or ...) nations be similarly intolerant to a diluting
influx of those of different think?


> This is equally topical to the Conch Republic; as others visit and
> settle on their soil, how do they defend their innate Conch-ness
> ethnicity from outside dilution? I demand answers.

Well yes, about a day after the email starting this thread, I sent a
similar one modified appropriately for Australians as an on-topic
reply to another email about Australia's increase in "Syrian refugees"
now also to occur here - but I figured for the purposes of this list
that one version of essentially the same email was probably enough :)

---

So do we citizens of [pick your nation] have the right to protect the
status quo within our nation, to protect it against dilution from
immigration or asylum, or must we allow the attractions that our
nation presents to would be immigrants (whatever arises in their mind
in this regard) to be enough of a test for immigration/ asylum?

I.e., do the current locals of
Germany/Australia/Hungary/Italy/Greece/Conch Replubic, have a "valid
right" to object to their politicians "throwing the doors wide open",
as Austria and Germany have recently done?

You don't have to be Nazi, to want your racial and cultural strength,
however you define that thank you you're welcome.

Regards
Zenaan




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 10 20:45:35 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:45:35 -0400
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29J6AZXqM8oDCr=ZsPObW1=1vtzX8-siM_mJCP-b2c-mw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+mcafee

John McAfee: Obamacare Unfixable, Scrap it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o-Flb5CBOo

John McAfee: Security is an Illusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKP0C8zA7_Q

John McAfee: Secrets of The Cloud Revealed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwv2YnCnc8w

"I like these 50's.... my type of gun :-)"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aipUZO-PjFY




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 16:57:19 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:57:19 +0000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <20150910103439.d6780318dfee8d059b796997@virtadpt.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
 <20150910103439.d6780318dfee8d059b796997@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQqpYLhzH+JcCnfMC4bqD9DTizgmO9=g6oxidH-mOhMPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/15, The Doctor <drwho at virtadpt.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
>> USA-Russia
>> relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
>
> People are so trained to think in binary terms that pretty much every
> possible shade of grey is all but invisble.
>
> Sad.

Sad indeed. A nuanced (from our western media perspective), almost
academic analysis of why USSR fell, due to its internal problems, and
what those problems were:
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/09/the-three-deaths-of-soviet-union-part-1.html
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/09/the-three-deaths-of-soviet-union-part-2.html

I add that today, the relevant thing is that Putin on an inter-nation
level is one of the only true diplomats on today's world stage, and
has forged many significant relationships (e.g. BRICS) which have
shifted power significantly and irrevocably away from USA and towards
a multi-polar world;
and I say this is a damn good thing and we are fortunate that "Russia"
has produced someone like this - perhaps not so fortunate for some
Russians inside Russia, but extraordinarily important, and good, for
the world as a whole. USA hegemon had to be ended, and it's almost
done but the shoutin'.




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 17:11:30 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 00:11:30 +0000
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:41:26 +0300
> Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 09:05:02AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> > Would love to see some possibility of A Better Obama...
>>
>> Definitely the cpunk juan :)
>>
>> juan for president!!!!!!
>
>
> Thank you Georgi. We need an anarchist president who would fight for
> our anarchist constitution. Those are the pilars of our anarchist
> state. Otherwise chaos would ensue.
>
>
>> he might give the scumbags hard time, not sure.
>
> Hm. That's a nice ring - it might fit me. But I think I'll pass =P

The test perhaps ought be, can you (/we) elucidate anarchist beliefs,
benefits, cautions, etc, to enough people such that someone who's not
you chooses to run for president on an anarchist platform?

Such changes can surely only occur with the leverage of "getting it
out there, and "it" being appealing to enough of the general
population".

Juan, are there aspects of political anarchism (I think we need a term
other than "anarchy" if we want Joe Sixpack to not glaze over) which
you have personal doubts about, or you're not sure about how best to
handle, or even unsure about how to educate others about? Perhaps
another thread though... but I am seriously interested in a more
nuanced discussion than "those USG cunts" ;)




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 17:32:26 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 00:32:26 +0000
Subject: politicopunks@cpunks.org
In-Reply-To: <trinity-3efa7b17-e36a-4144-abf0-97c3826aff41-1441894953035@3capp-gmx-bs07>
References: <trinity-3efa7b17-e36a-4144-abf0-97c3826aff41-1441894953035@3capp-gmx-bs07>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSR19bZyqYAvQu4qMjzkwQpHmNyLmYPoncgwZ26MG=P2A@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/15, Cindy Baginski <cibag at gmx.de> wrote:
> is this an cp mailinglist?
>
> best regards
> c.

Well that was the question, what is the shared common intention for
the list? "schism"'s reply is about as apt and useful as it gets. For
reference:
It is my experience that such forks are borne of individuals resenting
the friction inherent of open forums, not of wishing free and open
discourse.  If a forum is explicitly open and yet you experience
resistance to your ideas there are two probable causes.  One is that
those resisting are fools, the other is that you're full of shit.  One
would do best to consider both equally (even simultaneously) probable.

Also Georgi Guninski's:
If you ask me, the current list is going well
and nobody got banned for trolling about politics.




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Sep 10 18:27:34 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 01:27:34 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNST=sWr8_XdP6fyTqKSCRF8=VA_+h3H8_uf9c3jM+SBJfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F1F9C9.9070009@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/15, Nathan wrote:
> WTF?  I've read this *twice* and I *still* don't get it.....  Is this an
> argument against multiculturalism?

That's not the question - the question is, does each individual human
of a nation have the right to protect their current, existing culture?

Or at least to have a say, i.e. a vote about it?

Some nations, through their power structures, go to extraordinary
lengths to protect their rights to cultural and racial strength, Japan
for example.

Is this the right of the Japanese? Or are they doing the wrong thing?

>From their perspective, they are doing what is required to protect
their rights, to self determination as a people, a tribe, a race.

It appears that the rights of individuals are determined (in practice)
by those in power, and not by those who are directly affected by the
decision makers (the people themselves). Is keeping such decisions in
the hands of a few "educated elected" an elitist approach?

If democracy be the will of the people manifested, then ought the
people of any nation be asked directly (nation wide vote) on such
questions as cultural dilution due to immigration and or asylum?

Or is it appropriate for an "elected" few to impose their personal
preference on a nation?

Regards
Zenaan




From tom at vondein.org  Thu Sep 10 23:39:05 2015
From: tom at vondein.org (Tom)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:39:05 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNST=sWr8_XdP6fyTqKSCRF8=VA_+h3H8_uf9c3jM+SBJfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F1F9C9.9070009@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150911063905.GK89227@r4>

Hi,

I am german, so let's look at your question:

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:44:52PM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > In the face of genetics, which reveals that inter-german variability far
> > outstrips the genetic basis of what we define as "race", I'd like to see
> > you define "Ethnicity" meaningfully.
> 
> What does that matter to the essence of the question?

It does. Because there's no uniform ethnicity or whatever you might call
it, in a country, at least not in germany. Germans are: Saxons,
Bavarians, Saarländers, Turks, Roma, Blacks, Asians, Moslems,
Everything. There is a mix of people with different backgrounds,
different religions (or no religion), different ancestors. Their sum
forms what we know today as the "german culture", whatever that might
be.

> So do we citizens of [pick your nation] have the right to protect the
> status quo within our nation, to protect it against dilution from
> immigration or asylum, or must we allow the attractions that our
> nation presents to would be immigrants (whatever arises in their mind
> in this regard) to be enough of a test for immigration/ asylum?

Or course not.

All humans are refugees or descendants or refugees. Look at north
america. Coloured people came from africa (well, they didn't exactly
"came", they've been brought), caucasians came from europe, the natives
even came from siberia (50.000 years ago or something). Those migrations
happened all the time during the last 2 mio years over human history.

Therefore, to claim to have a right to live in a uniform culture,
undisturbed by newcomers, is arrogant and absurd. And even if such a
right might exist, the right to live trumps it anyway.

Wanna send back children into a war zone because Oktoberfest?



best,
Tom 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Sep 11 00:49:51 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:49:51 +0200
Subject: Library installs Tor exit node; pulls plug after pressure from DHS
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14fb8d70f10.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1541110.BOh5v8HBOz@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 10 września 2015 21:21:32 grarpamp pisze:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> > Via Propublica:
> > http://www.propublica.org/article/library-support-anonymous-internet-brows
> > ing-effort-stops-after-dhs-email
> > 
> > More background:
> > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/crypto-activists-announce-visio
> > n-for-tor-exit-relay-in-every-library/
> > 
> > The project itself:
> > https://libraryfreedomproject.org/torexitpilotphase1/
> > 
> > The library board meets on the 15th of this month and will decide whether
> > to turn it back on.
> 
> A lot of support should be lent right now to the city managers, library
> board, and the community. You don't want the first one to be publicly
> quashed by a bunch of shameful LEA fearmongering.
> Show up the board meeting, you can bet they will.

From what I hear the library is getting some considerable positive feedback. 
There's also an EFF petition:
https://act.eff.org/action/support-tor-and-intellectual-freedom-in-libraries

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Sep 11 00:56:06 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:06 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150911063905.GK89227@r4>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150911063905.GK89227@r4>
Message-ID: <1964661.BWLenNOqDH@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 08:39:05 Tom pisze:
> Wanna send back children into a war zone because Oktoberfest?

This, I believe, sums it up perfectly!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 11 00:10:54 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:10:54 +0300
Subject: Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for linux/bsd
 0days?
Message-ID: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for linux/bsd 0days?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/10/redmond_yells_cut_on_hacking_team_horror_movie_exploit/

Another of exploits against Microsoft Windows that hit as a zero day
after Hacking Team was hacked has been fixed.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Sep 11 10:47:38 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:47:38 -0700
Subject: (from offlist) John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under
 Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <m2si6lsp24.fsf@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F1A6A0.5010905@riseup.net> <m2si6lsp24.fsf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F313BA.7040103@riseup.net>



On 09/10/2015 06:49 PM, Ben Mezger wrote:
>  I lived in a Third a World Banana
> Republic, was tortured and had to watch my dog shot in front of my eyes
> by a soldier trained by the FBI at Quantico using an Ar-15 supplied by
> the US Government. I hid in the jungles of Central America for weeks
> while being chased by an army representing a government that I had
> refused to be extorted by. Please…. tell me what is not serious about
> this."

Someone forgot to tell him he was NOT the top banana in the Feudal world.

He's nuts, sorry, no matter his financial experience, and he didn't run
that 'multi-billion dollar company' for long. He sold it, and it
probably wasn't a multi-billion dollar company when sold Symantec did
that, and I'm calling him for megalomania and psychopathic lying for
self aggrandizement

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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Sep 11 02:22:59 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:22:59 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 01:27:34 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> On 9/11/15, Nathan wrote:
> > WTF?  I've read this *twice* and I *still* don't get it.....  Is this an
> > argument against multiculturalism?
> 
> That's not the question - the question is, does each individual human
> of a nation have the right to protect their current, existing culture?

Of course I can defend my culture. But there are two crucial questions here:
 - from what can I defend my culture;
 - with what means can I defend my culture.

Can I defend my culture verbally from somebody talking shit about it? Sure.
Can I defend my culture with force from an armed aggressor? Sure.

Can I "defend my culture" from people who had to leave their homes due to war?
How would I even "defend my culture" in such a scenario? Deport them all for 
certain death? Imprison them?..

Asking the "can one defend their culture" question without asking the other 
two is really underhanded and disingenuous. It's akin to asking "can one 
defend themselves" in the context of a Police officer killing an unarmed
13-year-old kid with a watergun.

Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard to 
defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly a 
real threat?

[1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 11 04:47:41 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:47:41 +0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150911114741.GB2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 05:01:21PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> 
> Thank you Georgi. We need an anarchist president who would fight for
> our anarchist constitution. Those are the pilars of our anarchist
> state. Otherwise chaos would ensue.
> 
>


Nothing against _well implemented_ anarchy, but I
consider this impossible to do with current sheeple
and adversaries.

A Donald Knuth quote:

http://www.azquotes.com/author/8177-Donald_Knuth/tag/reality

It would be nice if we could design a virtual reality in Hyperbolic
Space, and meet each other there.

;)




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 11 08:07:22 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:07:22 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQfy5T+wL3M03Cr5gGi=zXQs+T8ZvVOyZaGC93UqJH=9Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/15, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 01:27:34 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
>> On 9/11/15, Nathan wrote:
>> > WTF?  I've read this *twice* and I *still* don't get it.....  Is this
>> > an
>> > argument against multiculturalism?
>>
>> That's not the question - the question is, does each individual human
>> of a nation have the right to protect their current, existing culture?
>
> Of course I can defend my culture. But there are two crucial questions
> here:
>  - from what can I defend my culture;
>  - with what means can I defend my culture.
>
> Can I defend my culture verbally from somebody talking shit about it? Sure.
> Can I defend my culture with force from an armed aggressor? Sure.
>
> Can I "defend my culture" from people who had to leave their
> homes due to war?
> How would I even "defend my culture" in such a scenario? Deport
> them all for certain death? Imprison them?..
>
> Asking the "can one defend their culture" question without asking
> the other two is really underhanded and disingenuous.

Or simply seeking the insights of your now asked two questions as
above and struggling (perhaps ironically) to come to such insights by
myself - no underhanded or disingenuous intention need be ascribed.
The thoughtful part of your reply is really appreciated. Thank you for
your patience going forward.

I consider the first ground to be that of individual/ collective
right. Even getting beyond this first ground is a challenge for many -
you're the first person in my (humble, inadequate, deficient...)
attempts over the last year or two, who actually got past "do we have
the right".

Your next two questions are not easy. I have no immediate answer. A
temporary brain dump of things which may arise and perhaps ought be
contemplated to arrive at any sane answer to your last two questions:
- reciprocal legislation on a per-country basis - if we can't build
churches in your country, you can't build mosques in ours; if we can't
buy property in yours, you can't buy in ours
- "tipping points" for 'cultural crisis' due to immigration by
refugees or otherwise
- Christians being executed in various countries today
- the Christian crusades of 100s years ago
- are we humans beyond barbarians to any real extent
- what about those of us in golden middle-class cages, are we
barbarians in disguise
- to what extent is it our "western" governments (and or military
industrial companies) causing the turmoil/ wars from which the genuine
refugees flee from
- should we citizens suffer the fallout from the evil activities of
our governments and military industrial companies bombing brown people
and or poor people - is it possible to stop our governments/ companies
from doing so
- is maintenance of local/ per-country cultural homogeneity worth
pursuing at all, or is that somehow fundamentally at odds with the
majority of humans on the planet being "below the poverty line" and
therefore with their "right to a share" of my (relatively) wealthy
middle class existence (even for example for those on government
assistance/ welfare)

I feel as though we are being sold out by our western governments
driven by the military industrial companies, and that we are being
caused to suffer the consequences of this. And I feel powerless to
stop this evil, to stop the (unlawful, but hey) killing of people on
an industrial scale. I feel that there is so much profit from war,
that there is intention to war and for war, and that this is out of
control. Courtesy the internet we know this turmoil has been
perpetrated continuously since WWII by USAGov (CIA) and its "allies",
lackies, lapdogs - coup after coup, regime change after regime change.
There's so much that's not ok by me and I struggle to find clear and
simple foundations which can approach shared consensus understanding
and agreement on what is wrong, let alone how if at all possible to
fix it.

Thanks for suffering my totally inadequate and rambling attempts at
something resembling communication, but I am sincere in my desire for
a better world - for everyone in it.
Zenaan




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 11 05:52:39 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:52:39 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> 
> Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard to 
> defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly a 
> real threat?
> 
> [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
>

First a joke:

"statistician tried to cross a river of average depth 0.5m and got
drowned".

May I ask what percentage of the EU are street policeman (not counting
burocrats) to "protect" the sheeple?

And how comes the above policeman allowed the refugees to cross the
border?

It is the extrema that matters, not the average value.

...And what if half of the 0.03% were armed turrorists?




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 16:19:51 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:19:51 -0400
Subject: Library installs Tor exit node; pulls plug after pressure from DHS
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14fb8d70f10.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_tnYemNa9ue7ThUco1XywKJ7-2ABX5TiDKsg21yX_09Q@mail.gmail.com>

> A lot of support should be lent right now to the city managers, library board,
> and the community. You don't want the first one to be publicly quashed by
> a bunch of shameful LEA fearmongering.
> Show up the board meeting, you can bet they will.

Someone should also see about notifying these folks,
you might end up with an entire state full of relays...

https://freestateproject.org/
http://forum.freestateproject.org/




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 22:47:51 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 02:47:51 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 00:11:30 +0000
Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:


> Juan, are there aspects of political anarchism (I think we need a term
> other than "anarchy" if we want Joe Sixpack to not glaze over) which
> you have personal doubts about, or you're not sure about how best to
> handle, or even unsure about how to educate others about?

	Well, I don't care too much about 'educating' people lately and
	I certainly know my method is far from perfect...

	
	As far as doubts regarding political anarchy go, no I don't
	have any doubts. 

	I don't care about 'utilitarian' arguments. It doesn't matter
	if some people think that they can get allegedly 'better'
	outcomes by taxing, kidnapping and killing their neighbors.
	Pro-government people don't have any legitimate authority and
	can't even prove that their preferences are 'better', most of
	the time.

	Anarchy is the only system that can be morally justified. And
	funnily enough, the very theoretical premises of 'western'
	'liberal' 'democracies' are anarchistic. 'Liberal'
	'democracies' pretend to be 'representative' governments based
	on the 'consent of the governed'.

	
	"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
	created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
	certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty
	and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights,
	Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
	powers from the consent of the governed," 


	The 'religious' language is bullshit - the doctrine of
	natural rights is actually that, natural (rational), not based
	on any 'supernatural' scam.

	And what does 'consent' mean, exactly? It means choice and the
	ability to accept or reject any proposition. 

	So, since government is based on 'consent' it is perfectly OK
	to NOT consent to be 'governed' and thus live under 'anarchy'. 

	Of course, the guy who wrote that 'declaration of independence'
	and his accomplices were incredibly sick pieces of shit who
	used libertarian political theory as facade for the
	'foundation'  of a literal slave society. Freedom is slavery.
	Good old Orwell wasn't just talking about the future...


	Anyway, anarchy is simply statist theory correctly applied. 


> Perhaps
> another thread though... but I am seriously interested in a more
> nuanced discussion than "those USG cunts" ;)

	=) 






From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 20:18:08 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
Message-ID: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before and after it.  Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques, attempting to cover up the fact of the fake, forged appeal case 99-30210.  I suspect that the following company had something to do with it:   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html        Jim Bell
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 23:18:34 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:34 -0300
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55f3c2c1.48d6370a.24569.ffff9029@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that
> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
> and after it.  


	Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)


	1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
	
	2)
	http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html

	3)
	http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html

	4)
	http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html

	5) Jim's wikipedia article

	6)
	http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html

	7)
	http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html

	8)
	http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html

	9) 

	http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html

	10) 

	http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html


	results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 


	In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
	they can't even run a search engine?


> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,


	...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
	has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...



> attempting to cover up the fact of the fake, forged appeal case
> 99-30210.  I suspect that the following company had something to do
> with it:   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
> instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>       Jim Bell





From dal at riseup.net  Sat Sep 12 01:36:51 2015
From: dal at riseup.net (Douglas Lucas)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:36:51 -0500
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55F3E423.3010908@riseup.net>

Perhaps the spam websites need to hide only text that is "real" in the
eyes of Google. And "Bell further alleged in his 2003" is "real" because
it is in a book. It could have been text out of any other book, but it
turned out to be you. Like winning the lottery, but in reverse. Perhaps
you could analyze strings of the other hidden text to see if they too
are from "real" sources.

I come up with this hypothesis because years back I used to write web
advertisements for an ambulance chaser law firm. They gave me the
original text, e.g., "If you or someone you care about has been injured
in an 18-wheeler accident in Atlanta, blah blah" and I had to write it
six hundred different ways, e.g. "If you or someone you love has been
hurt in a big rig crash in Atlanta, blah blah" Each version became its
own URL. The text of each had to be different, the law firm told me, or
Google would notice the similarities and penalize the websites for being
spam. It was a boring gig so I livened it up by writing in metric prose
- one sentence here in trochees, another sentence there in anapests, etc.

So "real" text is valuable.

That leads me to wonder, like a science fiction writer, how we could
take this to extremes. Which text is the most "real"? What might the
consequences be of variations in the degree of lorem ipsum texts' reality?

On 09/11/2015 10:18 PM, jim bell wrote:
> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
> alleged in his 2003'
> You will notice that there are MANY results that contain that phrase,
> but have something close to gibberish, before and after it.  Some
> results are genuine, but most are apparently not.  I suspect that I am
> the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques, attempting to cover up the
> fact of the fake, forged appeal case 99-30210.  I suspect that the
> following company had something to do with it:
>   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
> instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>         Jim Bell
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 02:23:05 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 06:23:05 -0300
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <20150912090803.GA2489@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
 <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150912090803.GA2489@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55f3ee01.d0ed8c0a.6aa33.ffff9555@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 12:08:03 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 07:48:42AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> > Okay, I did this for one of the instances,
> >  , http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html
> >  and got (in part) the relevant section:
> >
> 
> Consider checking the source of the cached google page
> (if any). Website need not serve the same page to you and
> google.

	yeah that seems to be the trick 

	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aSXFrILkxm8J:buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


	the cached version does have Jim's search terms. 

	
> 
> Also, IMHO if the text is obfuscated such a simple search
> might not work, not entirely sure.



> 
> I _suspect_ something remotely similar to yours happened
> to me in the past.
> 





From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 23:38:49 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 06:38:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <55f3c2c1.48d6370a.24569.ffff9029@mx.google.com>
References: <55f3c2c1.48d6370a.24569.ffff9029@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <646537907.1373286.1442039929322.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
>> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that
>> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
>> and after it.  


 >Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)
>    1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
    
  >  2)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html

 >   3)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html

 >   4)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html

>    5) Jim's wikipedia article

 >   6)
>   http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html

 >   7)
>    http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html

>    8)
 >   http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html

 >   9) 

>    http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html

 >   10) 

 >   http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html


 >   results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 
I think you're wrong about that.  It isn't "the same spam page".  Rather, it is multiple copies of what amounts to (looks like, to the human eye) the same spam page, but located at different URLs.


 >   In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
>    they can't even run a search engine?
Again, I think you're wrong about that.  I don't think Google has done anything wrong, here.  Rather, I think that someone else has manufactured many pages which look alike to the human eye, but apparently contain hidden text that can be searched for and found.  Google-search has simply catalogued the search results, including the otherwise-invisible text.  (White characters on a white background can't be read by eye, but they can be read by Google-search.)


>> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,


>    ...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
 >   has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...
Again, I think you're wrong.  What I believe I have seen does not "work against" anybody, except possibly me.  Google is simply cataloguing the web pages it sees, as the person (or organization) that produced those pages intends.  The only negative consequence, to Google-search, is that they have to catalog a few hundred kilobytes more of web-pages.  That's no skin off Google-search's nose.  And as far as I understand, the only tricky thing here is that text is present on these pages which cannot be read by a human.  If I knew more about the Web than I do, I would probably understand how to adjust my web browser to display visibly what would otherwise be invisible text.  The next question is, "what does this mean, and who produced this, and why?".   I posted this query to find somebody who had experience in SEO techniques.



             Jim Bell


> attempting to cover up the fact of the fake, forged appeal case
> 99-30210.  I suspect that the following company had something to do
> with it:   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
> instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>       Jim Bell


  
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 23:53:57 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 06:53:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <646537907.1373286.1442039929322.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <55f3c2c1.48d6370a.24569.ffff9029@mx.google.com>
 <646537907.1373286.1442039929322.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <850696060.1471279.1442040837924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I found this partial explanation:    http://www.seochat.com/c/a/search-engine-optimization-help/hidden-text-in-websites/
and                                               http://www.seologic.com/faq/hidden-text
and                                               http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/hidden-text-website-34580.html
and                                               https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66353?hl=en
                 Jim Bell
      From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
 To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>; "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org> 
 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:38 PM
 Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques? I have a mystery.
   
From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
>> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that
>> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
>> and after it.  


 >Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)
>    1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
    
  >  2)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html

 >   3)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html

 >   4)
 >   http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html

>    5) Jim's wikipedia article

 >   6)
>   http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html

 >   7)
>    http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html

>    8)
 >   http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html

 >   9) 

>    http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html

 >   10) 

 >   http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html


 >   results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 
I think you're wrong about that.  It isn't "the same spam page".  Rather, it is multiple copies of what amounts to (looks like, to the human eye) the same spam page, but located at different URLs.


 >   In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
>    they can't even run a search engine?
Again, I think you're wrong about that.  I don't think Google has done anything wrong, here.  Rather, I think that someone else has manufactured many pages which look alike to the human eye, but apparently contain hidden text that can be searched for and found.  Google-search has simply catalogued the search results, including the otherwise-invisible text.  (White characters on a white background can't be read by eye, but they can be read by Google-search.)


>> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,


>    ...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
 >   has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...
Again, I think you're wrong.  What I believe I have seen does not "work against" anybody, except possibly me.  Google is simply cataloguing the web pages it sees, as the person (or organization) that produced those pages intends.  The only negative consequence, to Google-search, is that they have to catalog a few hundred kilobytes more of web-pages.  That's no skin off Google-search's nose.  And as far as I understand, the only tricky thing here is that text is present on these pages which cannot be read by a human.  If I knew more about the Web than I do, I would probably understand how to adjust my web browser to display visibly what would otherwise be invisible text.  The next question is, "what does this mean, and who produced this, and why?".   I posted this query to find somebody who had experience in SEO techniques.



             Jim Bell


> attempting to cover up the fact of the fake, forged appeal case
> 99-30210.  I suspect that the following company had something to do
> with it:   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
> instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>       Jim Bell


   

  
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 00:48:42 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 07:48:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
References: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Okay, I did this for one of the instances,  , http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html   and got (in part) the relevant section:

| <p>Raised in the killing of canoga park, he had a married adverse <a href="public-police-records-dayton-ohio.html">public police records dayton ohio</a> for fine and was on cell for law requirement and views before he was 12 groups state-administered. |
|  | Legally, many slaves show a afternoon or also a organization in the import representations.  |
|  | Choi's times not originate from a double-barreled advertising of parliament and order.  |
|  | Then, he refused to leave raid and soon became a large <a href="public-arrest-records-free-montana.html"><strong>public arrest records free montana</strong></a> under the blood mars battles.  |
|  | Bell further alleged in his 2003 bias that a forged site access, couple 99-30210, was entered into the appeal time.  |
|  | In early county, the video neighborhood denotes an limited material lead by a green.  |
|  | Bedabrata's <a href="national-background-check-program-§-6201.html">national background check program § 6201</a> was born in dhaka and his holder came from faridpur.  |
|  | Pentonville prison opened in 1842, beginning a police of finally increasing mastermind audiences and the occupation of sport as the many case of construction information.  |
|  | Some documents engage in the profiling of naturae's property use, collecting the statistics of rolls visited.  |
|  | </p> |


[end of quote]
NOW, I can see the section that contained the text, "Bell further alleged in his 2003...".   Still unexplained is WHY this occurs.  Presumably it's intentional.            Jim Bell
      From: Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>; Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>; "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org> 
 Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:12 AM
 Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques? I have a mystery.
   
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Basically, right click in page, choose 'view source' from the menu and then search for Bell within the displayed text.

There's your hidden text :)

There's a bunch of 'metadata' in any web page used for controlling shit like this that is never visible on the actual web page.
View source will show this.




On 12 September 2015 07:53:57 BST, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I found this partial explanation:  
> http://www.seochat.com/c/a/search-engine-optimization-help/hidden-text-in-websites/
>and                                            
>  http://www.seologic.com/faq/hidden-text
>and                                            
>  http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/hidden-text-website-34580.html
>and                                            
>  https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66353?hl=en
>                 Jim Bell
>      From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
>To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>; "cypherpunks at cpunks.org"
><cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:38 PM
>Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
>techniques? I have a mystery.
>
>From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
>On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
>jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
>>> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that
>>> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
>>> and after it.  
>
>
> >Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)
>>    1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
>   
>  >  2)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html
>
> >   3)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html
>
> >   4)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html
>
>>    5) Jim's wikipedia article
>
> >   6)
>>  
>http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html
>
> >   7)
>>  
> http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html
>
>>    8)
> >
>  http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html
>
> >   9)
>
>>  
> http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html
>
> >   10)
>
> >
>  http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html
>
>
> >   results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 
>I think you're wrong about that.  It isn't "the same spam page".
> Rather, it is multiple copies of what amounts to (looks like, to the
>human eye) the same spam page, but located at different URLs.
>
>
> >   In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
>>    they can't even run a search engine?
>Again, I think you're wrong about that.  I don't think Google has done
>anything wrong, here.  Rather, I think that someone else has
>manufactured many pages which look alike to the human eye, but
>apparently contain hidden text that can be searched for and found.
> Google-search has simply catalogued the search results, including the
>otherwise-invisible text.  (White characters on a white background
>can't be read by eye, but they can be read by Google-search.)
>
>
>>> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>>>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,
>
>
>>    ...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
> >   has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...
>Again, I think you're wrong.  What I believe I have seen does not "work
>against" anybody, except possibly me.  Google is simply cataloguing the
>web pages it sees, as the person (or organization) that produced those
>pages intends.  The only negative consequence, to Google-search, is
>that they have to catalog a few hundred kilobytes more of web-pages.
> That's no skin off Google-search's nose.  And as far as I understand,
>the only tricky thing here is that text is present on these pages which
>cannot be read by a human.  If I knew more about the Web than I do, I
>would probably understand how to adjust my web browser to display
>visibly what would otherwise be invisible text.  The next question is,
>"what does this mean, and who produced this, and why?".   I posted this
>query to find somebody who had experience in SEO techniques.
>
>
>
>             Jim Bell

  
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 07:49:33 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 07:49:33 -0700
Subject: FOIA/PA - USA v. Bell
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QL1aPUxQRG=6ZvFfu+pv=UKqzdFe71DZhN095kKkDKCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SWD_-6v0hmCJWogUHq866qbXFWPj5MJ+8c5+55LRDuNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QL1aPUxQRG=6ZvFfu+pv=UKqzdFe71DZhN095kKkDKCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QZ8AfcPX8xiHj45G9QaK=OcKa387CiTz_iCAkHTsWFSg@mail.gmail.com>

retrieving more this weekend. any specific requests via reply and i'll
order those first.

best regards,



On 8/21/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> again, with corrected links :/
>
> notables:
>  https://peertech.org/files/USAvBell/USAvBell_00-05731_DocketText.pdf
> and
>  https://peertech.org/files/USAvBell/USAvBell_97-30384_DocketText.pdf
>
> the zip:
>   https://peertech.org/files/USAvBell_r1.zip
> SHA-256 is:
>  6b1fb44c4faec869676ded703395dc771d0a4053091588e742c6677c383c24eb
>
> ...




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sat Sep 12 06:07:27 2015
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:07:27 -0500
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1442063247.21762.6.camel@moonpatrol>

On Sat, 2015-09-12 at 03:18 +0000, jim bell wrote:
> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
> alleged in his 2003'
> You will notice that there are MANY results that contain that phrase,
> but have something close to gibberish, before and after it.  Some
> results are genuine, but most are apparently not.  I suspect that I am
> the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques, attempting to cover up the
> fact of the fake, forged appeal case 99-30210.  I suspect that the
> following company had something to do with it:
>   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
> instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html

I don't think they are targeting you. It looks like, for better or
worse, that phrase and the case number have become part of some
"boilerplate" SEO spam or "Lorem ipsum." Congratulations, I guess...?

There are "sewer rat" SEO consultants/firms use highly questionable
techniques to game Google, Bing, and other search engines. I get spam
for them all the time via a contact form on a personal site I'm about to
shut down. Obviously, they cannot read the notice I've put on the
contact form page.

The best defense against this is may be to better advertise what they
are trying to drown out with the spam, either intentionally or not. As a
practical matter, two of the most relevant pages are the top two
results. Is there something else you want to be sure is out there in
regards to this, besides what's said in Isaak Crofton's book and
Wikipedia?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Sat Sep 12 00:12:41 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:12:41 +0100
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <850696060.1471279.1442040837924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <55f3c2c1.48d6370a.24569.ffff9029@mx.google.com>
 <646537907.1373286.1442039929322.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <850696060.1471279.1442040837924.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Basically, right click in page, choose 'view source' from the menu and then search for Bell within the displayed text.

There's your hidden text :)

There's a bunch of 'metadata' in any web page used for controlling shit like this that is never visible on the actual web page.
View source will show this.


On 12 September 2015 07:53:57 BST, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>I found this partial explanation:  
> http://www.seochat.com/c/a/search-engine-optimization-help/hidden-text-in-websites/
>and                                            
>  http://www.seologic.com/faq/hidden-text
>and                                            
>  http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/hidden-text-website-34580.html
>and                                            
>  https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66353?hl=en
>                 Jim Bell
>      From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
>To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>; "cypherpunks at cpunks.org"
><cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:38 PM
>Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
>techniques? I have a mystery.
>
>From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
>On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
>jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
>>> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results that
>>> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
>>> and after it.  
>
>
> >Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)
>>    1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
>   
>  >  2)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html
>
> >   3)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html
>
> >   4)
> >
>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html
>
>>    5) Jim's wikipedia article
>
> >   6)
>>  
>http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html
>
> >   7)
>>  
> http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html
>
>>    8)
> >
>  http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html
>
> >   9)
>
>>  
> http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html
>
> >   10)
>
> >
>  http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html
>
>
> >   results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 
>I think you're wrong about that.  It isn't "the same spam page".
> Rather, it is multiple copies of what amounts to (looks like, to the
>human eye) the same spam page, but located at different URLs.
>
>
> >   In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
>>    they can't even run a search engine?
>Again, I think you're wrong about that.  I don't think Google has done
>anything wrong, here.  Rather, I think that someone else has
>manufactured many pages which look alike to the human eye, but
>apparently contain hidden text that can be searched for and found.
> Google-search has simply catalogued the search results, including the
>otherwise-invisible text.  (White characters on a white background
>can't be read by eye, but they can be read by Google-search.)
>
>
>>> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>>>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,
>
>
>>    ...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
> >   has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...
>Again, I think you're wrong.  What I believe I have seen does not "work
>against" anybody, except possibly me.  Google is simply cataloguing the
>web pages it sees, as the person (or organization) that produced those
>pages intends.  The only negative consequence, to Google-search, is
>that they have to catalog a few hundred kilobytes more of web-pages.
> That's no skin off Google-search's nose.  And as far as I understand,
>the only tricky thing here is that text is present on these pages which
>cannot be read by a human.  If I knew more about the Web than I do, I
>would probably understand how to adjust my web browser to display
>visibly what would otherwise be invisible text.  The next question is,
>"what does this mean, and who produced this, and why?".   I posted this
>query to find somebody who had experience in SEO techniques.
>
>
>
>             Jim Bell
>
>
>> attempting to cover up the fact of the fake, forged appeal case
>> 99-30210.  I suspect that the following company had something to do
>> with it:   http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for
>>
>instance, http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>>       Jim Bell
>
>
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Sep 12 08:21:56 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:21:56 -0700
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>



On 09/11/2015 10:47 PM, Juan wrote:
> Of course, the guy who wrote that 'declaration of independence'
> 	and his accomplices were incredibly sick pieces of shit who
> 	used libertarian political theory as facade for the
> 	'foundation'  of a literal slave society. Freedom is slavery.
> 	Good old Orwell wasn't just talking about the future...


To wit, here's a critical US history book that was popular at US
colleges during the 60s by Richard Hofstadter called "The American
Political Tradition"

https://mega.nz/#!2A8EkYiS!ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928
<https://mega.nz/#%212A8EkYiS%21ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928>
(pdf, 34mb)

If you do not read anything else, read the forward and the first chapter
about our 'founding fathers'. Sick pieces of shit... OFC the author
doesn't refer to them as such but the picture painted is tainted by it.

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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Sat Sep 12 01:21:26 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 09:21:26 +0100
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
 <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E8A9AA5F-AA6B-466A-A36E-5046501DECC0@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

It looks to me like they have just taken snippets of info from various other texts (probably legal/law enforcement relates sites) to use to raise their profile on search engines.

They seem to be advertising a service for doing background checks on people so these bits of text may help with matching the search terms used by people who are looking for that kind of service.


On 12 September 2015 08:48:42 BST, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Okay, I did this for one of the instances,
> , http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html 
> and got (in part) the relevant section:
>
>| <p>Raised in the killing of canoga park, he had a married adverse <a
>href="public-police-records-dayton-ohio.html">public police records
>dayton ohio</a> for fine and was on cell for law requirement and views
>before he was 12 groups state-administered. |
>|  | Legally, many slaves show a afternoon or also a organization in
>the import representations.  |
>|  | Choi's times not originate from a double-barreled advertising of
>parliament and order.  |
>|  | Then, he refused to leave raid and soon became a large <a
>href="public-arrest-records-free-montana.html"><strong>public arrest
>records free montana</strong></a> under the blood mars battles.  |
>|  | Bell further alleged in his 2003 bias that a forged site access,
>couple 99-30210, was entered into the appeal time.  |
>|  | In early county, the video neighborhood denotes an limited
>material lead by a green.  |
>|  | Bedabrata's <a
>href="national-background-check-program-§-6201.html">national
>background check program § 6201</a> was born in dhaka and his holder
>came from faridpur.  |
>|  | Pentonville prison opened in 1842, beginning a police of finally
>increasing mastermind audiences and the occupation of sport as the many
>case of construction information.  |
>|  | Some documents engage in the profiling of naturae's property use,
>collecting the statistics of rolls visited.  |
>|  | </p> |
>
>
>[end of quote]
>NOW, I can see the section that contained the text, "Bell further
>alleged in his 2003...".   Still unexplained is WHY this occurs.
> Presumably it's intentional.            Jim Bell
>      From: Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org>
>To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>; Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>;
>"cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
>techniques? I have a mystery.
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA512
>
>Basically, right click in page, choose 'view source' from the menu and
>then search for Bell within the displayed text.
>
>There's your hidden text :)
>
>There's a bunch of 'metadata' in any web page used for controlling shit
>like this that is never visible on the actual web page.
>View source will show this.
>
>
>
>
>On 12 September 2015 07:53:57 BST, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>I found this partial explanation:  
>> http://www.seochat.com/c/a/search-engine-optimization-help/hidden-text-in-websites/
>>and                                            
>>  http://www.seologic.com/faq/hidden-text
>>and                                            
>>  http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/hidden-text-website-34580.html
>>and                                            
>>  https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66353?hl=en
>>                 Jim Bell
>>      From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
>>To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>; "cypherpunks at cpunks.org"
>><cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:38 PM
>>Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
>>techniques? I have a mystery.
>>
>>From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
>>On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:18:08 +0000 (UTC)
>>jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
>>>> alleged in his 2003'You will notice that there are MANY results
>that
>>>> contain that phrase, but have something close to gibberish, before
>>>> and after it.  
>>
>>
>> >Weird. The search results I'm seeing (first page)
>>>    1) book titled "crypto anarchy"
>>   
>>  >  2)
>> >
>>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/ridgefield-connecticut-public-records.html
>>
>> >   3)
>> >
>>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/jail-records-vine.html
>>
>> >   4)
>> >
>>  http://www.snowcitycafe.com/assets/28115041/service/do-you-have-to-get-a-background-check-to-buy-.html
>>
>>>    5) Jim's wikipedia article
>>
>> >   6)
>>>  
>>http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/indiana-state-police-records-division.html
>>
>> >   7)
>>>  
>> http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/arizona-public-records-wills.html
>>
>>>    8)
>> >
>>  http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-website-to-view-criminal-records.html
>>
>> >   9)
>>
>>>  
>> http://www.vinnatur.org/wp-includes/service/free-criminal-records-bureau-uk.html
>>
>> >   10)
>>
>> >
>>  http://culturesource.net/data/records/criminal-background-guidelines.html
>>
>>
>> >   results 2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10 all go to the same spam page. 
>>I think you're wrong about that.  It isn't "the same spam page".
>> Rather, it is multiple copies of what amounts to (looks like, to the
>>human eye) the same spam page, but located at different URLs.
>>
>>
>> >   In other words, google is such an incredible piece of shit that
>>>    they can't even run a search engine?
>>Again, I think you're wrong about that.  I don't think Google has done
>>anything wrong, here.  Rather, I think that someone else has
>>manufactured many pages which look alike to the human eye, but
>>apparently contain hidden text that can be searched for and found.
>> Google-search has simply catalogued the search results, including the
>>otherwise-invisible text.  (White characters on a white background
>>can't be read by eye, but they can be read by Google-search.)
>>
>>
>>>> Some results are genuine, but most are apparently not.
>>>>  I suspect that I am the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques,
>>
>>
>>>    ...that work against an IT company that rules the universe and
>> >   has a 'market cap' of 428 000 million dollars...
>>Again, I think you're wrong.  What I believe I have seen does not
>"work
>>against" anybody, except possibly me.  Google is simply cataloguing
>the
>>web pages it sees, as the person (or organization) that produced those
>>pages intends.  The only negative consequence, to Google-search, is
>>that they have to catalog a few hundred kilobytes more of web-pages.
>> That's no skin off Google-search's nose.  And as far as I understand,
>>the only tricky thing here is that text is present on these pages
>which
>>cannot be read by a human.  If I knew more about the Web than I do, I
>>would probably understand how to adjust my web browser to display
>>visibly what would otherwise be invisible text.  The next question is,
>>"what does this mean, and who produced this, and why?".   I posted
>this
>>query to find somebody who had experience in SEO techniques.
>>
>>
>>
>>             Jim Bell
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep 12 02:08:03 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 12:08:03 +0300
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
 <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150912090803.GA2489@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 07:48:42AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> Okay, I did this for one of the instances,  , http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html   and got (in part) the relevant section:
>

Consider checking the source of the cached google page
(if any). Website need not serve the same page to you and
google.

Also, IMHO if the text is obfuscated such a simple search
might not work, not entirely sure.

I _suspect_ something remotely similar to yours happened
to me in the past.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Sep 12 13:27:30 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:27:30 -0700
Subject: Four things to know about presidential hopeful John McAfee
Message-ID: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>

The Hill say he's a nutjob. I concur. Ate too many DMT-ridden plants or
lizards somewhere .

"Security software pioneer and newly minted presidential candidate John
McAfee has led an unusual life, to put it mildly.

He’s played Russian roulette in front of a reporter to prove a point,
was once a fugitive from the law in Belize and, just last month, was
arrested for an alleged gun violation and driving under the influence.

In keeping with his unconventional style, McAfee’s bid for the White
House, announced this week, will be waged a candidate from his own
“Cyber Party.”

"I have a huge underground following on the web," McAfee told CNN Money.
"I promise you I will win because I have the votes."

On the same day he announced he was running for president, TV network
Spike announced they were planning to air a series next year that “will
be centered around McAfee's first-person interviews and will reveal
unanswered questions about his life ranging from drug-fueled college
days in Virginia, to learning to battle computer viruses early in his
career at Lockheed in the 1980's, to starting McAfee and Associates in
1987, to the 2012 murder investigation in Belize.”

Here are four know about McAfee as he reenters the national spotlight.

He built fortune on antivirus software, then lost it

McAfee made his millions at the anti-virus company that bore his name.
He ultimately cashed out, selling his stake in the firm after taking it
public.

But his fortune took a hit during the 2008 recession. He was worth about
$100 million before the financial crisis, and less than $10 million
after. He said that his losses were exacerbated because much of his
money was tied up in real estate.

“My father always said, 'Real estate, you can't lose in real estate' ...
you know, oddly enough you can,” he told ABC News at the time.

He sold many of his assets, including houses in Hawaii, Colorado and New
Mexico and moved to Belize to develop “natural” antibiotics.

McAfee Associates, the company he founded, was bought by Intel in 2010.
They dropped his name from the brand in 2014.

The Russian roulette story

While McAfee was in Belize, a Wired magazine writer visited his compound
to report a profile. McAfee pulled out a gun during a conversation with
the writer about the Belizean authorities’ interest in his activities.

McAfee put one bullet in the chamber and placed the gun to his head,
according to the profile. “Maybe what happened didn’t actually happen.
Can I do a demonstration?” he asked the writer, who wrote that he tried
to deescalate the situation.

McAfee pulled the trigger repeatedly. Nothing happened.

“I can do this all day long. I can do this a thousand times. Ten
thousand times. Nothing will ever happen,” he said. “Why? Because you
have missed something. You are operating on an assumption about reality
that is wrong.”

The fugitive

In 2012, authorities in Belize investigating the murder of McAfee’s
neighbor, Gregory Faull, were looking to speak with McAfee. He and the
man had had disputes over McAfee’s dogs and the security guards that
watched his property. McAfee told authorities that his dogs had been
poisoned two days before Faull died.

McAfee maintained his innocence and fled the authorities. He said he
thought he would not get a fair hearing in the country. “Things do not
operate here as they do in the States,” he said. “We are living in a
near dictatorship where the legal system is subservient to the cabinet."

His flight from Belize made national headlines and media outlet Vice was
briefly embroiled in a controversy when it appeared as though they had
leaked McAfee’s location accidentally. But after a month on the lam, he
ended up in the capital city of Guatemala.

“I like Guatemala. I think the legal system in Guatemala is superior to
the legal system in Belize," he told CNN at the time. "Guatemala is
close, it is beautiful and most importantly, I enjoy the company of
Guatemalans.”

DUI arrest

After a period of relative quiet, McAfee surfaced again when he was
arrested earlier this year for a gun possession violation and a DUI in
Tennessee. He claimed that while he was impaired, he hadn’t been
drinking alcohol. Instead, he said that a new prescription for Xanax had
impaired his driving.

"Never taken them before,” he told CNBC. “And in fact I was impaired, I
must admit."

He has also been running a company called Future Tense Central. It backs
a range of products and services, one of which is called Autonomous
Armor. The website for the forthcoming product lists several of McAfee’s
accomplishments, before offering a coda.

“Billions of dollars and decades later,” it says. “McAfee is back and at
it again.”

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/253454-four-things-to-know-about-presidential-hopeful-john-mcafee#

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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep 12 03:44:50 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:44:50 +0300
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization)
 techniques? I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <55f3ee01.d0ed8c0a.6aa33.ffff9555@mx.google.com>
References: <F6CEEB28-F8AA-4709-A233-99C56615BA5D@openmailbox.org>
 <1988752326.1370938.1442044122824.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150912090803.GA2489@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f3ee01.d0ed8c0a.6aa33.ffff9555@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150912104450.GB2489@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 06:23:05AM -0300, Juan wrote:
> > Consider checking the source of the cached google page
> > (if any). Website need not serve the same page to you and
> > google.
> 
> 	yeah that seems to be the trick 
> 
> 	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:aSXFrILkxm8J:buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-includes/service/public-property-records-fairbanks-alaska.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
> 
> 
> 	the cached version does have Jim's search terms. 
> 
>

Consider also searching on https://archive.org/.

It "keeps history of some interwebz" with many snapshots overy time.

Your URL doesn't appear archived AFAICT.




From griffin at cryptolab.net  Sat Sep 12 13:33:43 2015
From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:33:43 -0400
Subject: Four things to know about presidential hopeful John McAfee
In-Reply-To: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>
References: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <6528eb31499c2a693a4295c1718ea574@cryptolab.net>

McAfee/Cocaine 2016


Razer wrote:
> The Hill say he's a nutjob. I concur. Ate too many DMT-ridden plants or
> lizards somewhere .
> 
> "Security software pioneer and newly minted presidential candidate John
> McAfee has led an unusual life, to put it mildly.
> 
> He’s played Russian roulette in front of a reporter to prove a point,
> was once a fugitive from the law in Belize and, just last month, was
> arrested for an alleged gun violation and driving under the influence.
> 
> In keeping with his unconventional style, McAfee’s bid for the White
> House, announced this week, will be waged a candidate from his own
> “Cyber Party.”
> 
> "I have a huge underground following on the web," McAfee told CNN 
> Money.
> "I promise you I will win because I have the votes."
> 
> On the same day he announced he was running for president, TV network
> Spike announced they were planning to air a series next year that “will
> be centered around McAfee's first-person interviews and will reveal
> unanswered questions about his life ranging from drug-fueled college
> days in Virginia, to learning to battle computer viruses early in his
> career at Lockheed in the 1980's, to starting McAfee and Associates in
> 1987, to the 2012 murder investigation in Belize.”
> 
> Here are four know about McAfee as he reenters the national spotlight.
> 
> He built fortune on antivirus software, then lost it
> 
> McAfee made his millions at the anti-virus company that bore his name.
> He ultimately cashed out, selling his stake in the firm after taking it
> public.
> 
> But his fortune took a hit during the 2008 recession. He was worth 
> about
> $100 million before the financial crisis, and less than $10 million
> after. He said that his losses were exacerbated because much of his
> money was tied up in real estate.
> 
> “My father always said, 'Real estate, you can't lose in real estate' 
> ...
> you know, oddly enough you can,” he told ABC News at the time.
> 
> He sold many of his assets, including houses in Hawaii, Colorado and 
> New
> Mexico and moved to Belize to develop “natural” antibiotics.
> 
> McAfee Associates, the company he founded, was bought by Intel in 2010.
> They dropped his name from the brand in 2014.
> 
> The Russian roulette story
> 
> While McAfee was in Belize, a Wired magazine writer visited his 
> compound
> to report a profile. McAfee pulled out a gun during a conversation with
> the writer about the Belizean authorities’ interest in his activities.
> 
> McAfee put one bullet in the chamber and placed the gun to his head,
> according to the profile. “Maybe what happened didn’t actually happen.
> Can I do a demonstration?” he asked the writer, who wrote that he tried
> to deescalate the situation.
> 
> McAfee pulled the trigger repeatedly. Nothing happened.
> 
> “I can do this all day long. I can do this a thousand times. Ten
> thousand times. Nothing will ever happen,” he said. “Why? Because you
> have missed something. You are operating on an assumption about reality
> that is wrong.”
> 
> The fugitive
> 
> In 2012, authorities in Belize investigating the murder of McAfee’s
> neighbor, Gregory Faull, were looking to speak with McAfee. He and the
> man had had disputes over McAfee’s dogs and the security guards that
> watched his property. McAfee told authorities that his dogs had been
> poisoned two days before Faull died.
> 
> McAfee maintained his innocence and fled the authorities. He said he
> thought he would not get a fair hearing in the country. “Things do not
> operate here as they do in the States,” he said. “We are living in a
> near dictatorship where the legal system is subservient to the 
> cabinet."
> 
> His flight from Belize made national headlines and media outlet Vice 
> was
> briefly embroiled in a controversy when it appeared as though they had
> leaked McAfee’s location accidentally. But after a month on the lam, he
> ended up in the capital city of Guatemala.
> 
> “I like Guatemala. I think the legal system in Guatemala is superior to
> the legal system in Belize," he told CNN at the time. "Guatemala is
> close, it is beautiful and most importantly, I enjoy the company of
> Guatemalans.”
> 
> DUI arrest
> 
> After a period of relative quiet, McAfee surfaced again when he was
> arrested earlier this year for a gun possession violation and a DUI in
> Tennessee. He claimed that while he was impaired, he hadn’t been
> drinking alcohol. Instead, he said that a new prescription for Xanax 
> had
> impaired his driving.
> 
> "Never taken them before,” he told CNBC. “And in fact I was impaired, I
> must admit."
> 
> He has also been running a company called Future Tense Central. It 
> backs
> a range of products and services, one of which is called Autonomous
> Armor. The website for the forthcoming product lists several of 
> McAfee’s
> accomplishments, before offering a coda.
> 
> “Billions of dollars and decades later,” it says. “McAfee is back and 
> at
> it again.”
> 
> http://thehill.com/policy/technology/253454-four-things-to-know-about-presidential-hopeful-john-mcafee#

-- 
“Intelligence without ambition is a bird without wings.”
― Salvador Dalí




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 13:50:48 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:50:48 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:21:56 -0700
Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:


> To wit, here's a critical US history book that was popular at US
> colleges during the 60s by Richard Hofstadter called "The American
> Political Tradition"
> 
> https://mega.nz/#!2A8EkYiS!ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928
> <https://mega.nz/#%212A8EkYiS%21ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928>
> (pdf, 34mb)


	Thank Razer! I tried a couple of different browsers and just
	got a blank page. Not sure if it's something at my end, some
	temporary problem with mega, or what. 


> 
> If you do not read anything else, read the forward and the first
> chapter about our 'founding fathers'. Sick pieces of shit... OFC the
> author doesn't refer to them as such but the picture painted is
> tainted by it.
> 




From andreas at junius.info  Sat Sep 12 03:36:09 2015
From: andreas at junius.info (Andreas Junius)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:06:09 +0930
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55F40019.8060609@junius.info>



On 12/09/15 12:48, jim bell wrote:
> For those who can help, please do a Google search for 'Bell further
> alleged in his 2003'
> You will notice that there are MANY results that contain that phrase,
> but have something close to gibberish, before and after it.  Some
> results are genuine, but most are apparently not.  I suspect that I am
> the victim of some sort of SEO-techniques, attempting to cover up the
> fact of the fake, forged appeal case 99-30210.  I suspect that the
> following company had something to do with it:
> http://www.icmconsulting.com/seo.html  See, for instance,
> http://www.simcoehall.com/service/background-check-expunged.html
>          Jim Bell

That doesn't look like applied SEO techiques rather than a nasty hack or 
some kind of ad-click fraud. These domains don't have an apparent 
relationship; maybe the owners of the piggybacked pages/domains have no 
idea what's going on. Not even the first domain on the following list:


Name:	instantcheckmate.net
Address: 184.168.221.23
http://iplocationtools.com/184.168.221.23.html
Registrant Name: Registration Private
Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant Street: DomainsByProxy.com


Name:	snowcitycafe.com
Address: 50.112.255.20
http://iplocationtools.com/50.112.255.20.html
Registrant Name: Anna Premo
Registrant Organization: Snow City Cafe

Name:	buriedwithoutceremony.com
Address: 72.18.132.73
http://iplocationtools.com/72.18.132.73.html
Registrant Name: KEE SIAK CHAN
Registrant Organization: EXABYTES NETWORK SDN BHD

Name:	vinnatur.org
Address: 213.186.33.82
http://iplocationtools.com/213.186.33.82.html
Registrant Name:Angiolino Maule
Registrant Organization:Associazione Vinnatur
Registrant Street: Via Biancara 14

Name:	culturesource.net
Address: 67.210.98.210
http://iplocationtools.com/67.210.98.210.html
Registrant Name: DELLA PERRY
Registrant Street: 1150 W 11TH AVE








From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 16:14:06 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:14:06 -0300
Subject: Four things to know about presidential hopeful John McAfee
In-Reply-To: <6528eb31499c2a693a4295c1718ea574@cryptolab.net>
References: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>
 <6528eb31499c2a693a4295c1718ea574@cryptolab.net>
Message-ID: <55f4b0bd.0aa58c0a.36ebc.ffffe4c8@mx.google.com>




	this one was entertaining 

	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIXc_GqIsE0

	what's also slightly entertaining is that a retard like
	grarpamp (with his 'limited' government bullshit) takes mcafee
	(and alex jones LMAO!) seriously...



> > He’s played Russian roulette in front of a reporter 


	obviously using a fake bullet.



>> to prove a
> > point, was once a fugitive from the law in Belize and, just last
> > month, was arrested for an alleged gun violation and driving under
> > the influence.
> > 
> > In keeping with his unconventional style, McAfee’s bid for the White
> > House, announced this week, will be waged a candidate from his own
> > “Cyber Party.”
> > 
> > "I have a huge underground following on the web," McAfee told CNN 
> > Money.
> > "I promise you I will win because I have the votes."
> > 
> > On the same day he announced he was running for president, TV
> > network Spike announced they were planning to air a series next
> > year that “will be centered around McAfee's first-person interviews
> > and will reveal unanswered questions about his life ranging from
> > drug-fueled college days in Virginia, to learning to battle
> > computer viruses early in his career at Lockheed in the 1980's, to
> > starting McAfee and Associates in 1987, to the 2012 murder
> > investigation in Belize.”
> > 
> > Here are four know about McAfee as he reenters the national
> > spotlight.
> > 
> > He built fortune on antivirus software, then lost it
> > 
> > McAfee made his millions at the anti-virus company that bore his
> > name. He ultimately cashed out, selling his stake in the firm after
> > taking it public.
> > 
> > But his fortune took a hit during the 2008 recession. He was worth 
> > about
> > $100 million before the financial crisis, and less than $10 million
> > after. He said that his losses were exacerbated because much of his
> > money was tied up in real estate.
> > 
> > “My father always said, 'Real estate, you can't lose in real
> > estate' ...
> > you know, oddly enough you can,” he told ABC News at the time.
> > 
> > He sold many of his assets, including houses in Hawaii, Colorado
> > and New
> > Mexico and moved to Belize to develop “natural” antibiotics.
> > 
> > McAfee Associates, the company he founded, was bought by Intel in
> > 2010. They dropped his name from the brand in 2014.
> > 
> > The Russian roulette story
> > 
> > While McAfee was in Belize, a Wired magazine writer visited his 
> > compound
> > to report a profile. McAfee pulled out a gun during a conversation
> > with the writer about the Belizean authorities’ interest in his
> > activities.
> > 
> > McAfee put one bullet in the chamber and placed the gun to his head,
> > according to the profile. “Maybe what happened didn’t actually
> > happen. Can I do a demonstration?” he asked the writer, who wrote
> > that he tried to deescalate the situation.
> > 
> > McAfee pulled the trigger repeatedly. Nothing happened.
> > 
> > “I can do this all day long. I can do this a thousand times. Ten
> > thousand times. Nothing will ever happen,” he said. “Why? Because
> > you have missed something. You are operating on an assumption about
> > reality that is wrong.”
> > 
> > The fugitive
> > 
> > In 2012, authorities in Belize investigating the murder of McAfee’s
> > neighbor, Gregory Faull, were looking to speak with McAfee. He and
> > the man had had disputes over McAfee’s dogs and the security guards
> > that watched his property. McAfee told authorities that his dogs
> > had been poisoned two days before Faull died.
> > 
> > McAfee maintained his innocence and fled the authorities. He said he
> > thought he would not get a fair hearing in the country. “Things do
> > not operate here as they do in the States,” he said. “We are living
> > in a near dictatorship where the legal system is subservient to the 
> > cabinet."
> > 
> > His flight from Belize made national headlines and media outlet
> > Vice was
> > briefly embroiled in a controversy when it appeared as though they
> > had leaked McAfee’s location accidentally. But after a month on the
> > lam, he ended up in the capital city of Guatemala.
> > 
> > “I like Guatemala. I think the legal system in Guatemala is
> > superior to the legal system in Belize," he told CNN at the time.
> > "Guatemala is close, it is beautiful and most importantly, I enjoy
> > the company of Guatemalans.”
> > 
> > DUI arrest
> > 
> > After a period of relative quiet, McAfee surfaced again when he was
> > arrested earlier this year for a gun possession violation and a DUI
> > in Tennessee. He claimed that while he was impaired, he hadn’t been
> > drinking alcohol. Instead, he said that a new prescription for
> > Xanax had
> > impaired his driving.
> > 
> > "Never taken them before,” he told CNBC. “And in fact I was
> > impaired, I must admit."
> > 
> > He has also been running a company called Future Tense Central. It 
> > backs
> > a range of products and services, one of which is called Autonomous
> > Armor. The website for the forthcoming product lists several of 
> > McAfee’s
> > accomplishments, before offering a coda.
> > 
> > “Billions of dollars and decades later,” it says. “McAfee is back
> > and at
> > it again.”
> > 
> > http://thehill.com/policy/technology/253454-four-things-to-know-about-presidential-hopeful-john-mcafee#
> 





From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 18:28:55 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 01:28:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I've never been into Astrology, but...
Message-ID: <857894464.1616614.1442107735186.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

http://hexagoninfulleffect.com/2013/02/07/sun-in-aries-moon-in-scorpio-night-terrors-primal-instincts-and-going-deep-cover/

One of the more curious web pages I've seen recently.          Jim Bell
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From rich at openwatch.net  Sun Sep 13 03:31:05 2015
From: rich at openwatch.net (Rich Jones)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 03:31:05 -0700
Subject: Some stats, thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command
 to prove yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADJYzxLR51Hnjnf_TuG-FEmqAvCSnLEJvpoCmidfZ-8rOW6mcA@mail.gmail.com>

That's quite enough of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP97On4heCA

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 3:08 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?
>
> (some stats and graphs are mixed in some of the articles below)
>
>
> *
>
> https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/judge-finds-german-woman-guilty-of-raping-eight-pakistani-muslim-men/
> "Judge Finds German Woman Guilty of Raping Eight Pakistani Muslim Men
> April 22, 2013
> "In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found
> guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind
> in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of
> August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was
> sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally
> and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help
> repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she
> was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken.
>
> Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no
> evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure
> her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police
> Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to
> corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the
> large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year
> stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in
> order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with
> traditional Islamic jurisprudence. "
>
> *
>
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/horror-muslim-migrant-in-europe-brutally-rapes-7-year-old-white-girl-video/
> Sep 9th, 2015
> "A little 7 year old girl was brutally raped by a Muslim migrant from
> North Africa.
> The girl was with her mother in the park in Chemnitz, Germany, when a
> Muslim man dragged her into the bush, held her mouth shut and brutally
> raped the little girl.
> After he finished the rape, he let the girl go and left the crime
> scene running. It happened quick that the mother did not even notice
> anything. She first realized it when the seven year old girl came
> crying to her."
>
>
> http://clashdaily.com/2015/09/muslim-migrant-dragged-7yr-old-white-girl-into-bushes-and-brutally-raped-her/
> "This is exactly what the media doesn’t want you to know – but they
> are completely ignoring it. Let’s make it heard everywhere."
>
> *
>
> https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/
> "Schools in Germany order girls to cover up to avoid being attacked by
> Muslim refugees
>   September 9, 2015
> In yet another startling fact about the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis
> that the liberal media is completely ignoring, school officials in
> Germany are warning teenage girls to avoid wearing certain attire for
> fear of offending Muslim refugees."
>
> *
>
> http://www.infowars.com/feminists-mute-on-muslim-rape-epidemic-sweeping-europe/
>
> *
>
> http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/01/rape-jihad-europes-muslims-name-their-rape-gangs-take-your-turn-polish-men-send-message-to-rapists/
>
> *
>
> http://www.examiner.com/article/poland-men-band-together-to-escort-women-protect-from-rape-gangs?cid=db_articlesPolish
>
> *
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Sexual_crimes
>
> *
> http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2014/01/09/open-doors-survey/724536
>
> *
> http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1246349
> "Not so very many years ago, Oslo was virtually a rape-free city,
> inhabited by people who had been brought up on civilized notions of
> mutual respect and tolerance. No longer. Over the years, the incidence
> of rape has risen steadily. A wildly disproportionate number of the
> perpetrators are "rejected asylum seekers” – which may sound puzzling
> unless you are aware of the perverse state of affairs whereby even
> persons officially rejected for asylum in Norway are still allowed to
> stay. And the increasing temerity of the rapists – who know very well
> that they will probably not be caught, and, if caught, will not be
> severely punished – is reflected in the fact that the most recent rape
> (in which two men assaulted a 21-year-old woman) took place virtually
> in the backyard of the Royal Palace."
>
> *
>
> https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/
> "The total Muslim population in Sweden is estimated at 4.4% (2013
> figures). Out of that 4.4% and in deducting the women and children, we
> can roughly guesstimate that around 2% are male. The foreign rape
> figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish
> polish in a phone conversation. The actual figure could be higher.
> These percentages do not include Muslims with Swedish citizenship
> contained within rapes in the figures categorized under “Swedish
> nationals”."
>
> *
> https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
> "According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it
> is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared
> to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya,
> Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to
> these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In
> Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which
> frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape
> statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of
> three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and
> even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape
> charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population
> than any other country in northern Europe."
>
> *
>
> http://10news.dk/nicolai-sennels-psychologist-islam-root-cause-of-grooming-and-rape-wave/
>
> *
> http://10news.dk/?p=1723
> "Germany: 20-30 Albanians use knives, machetes and iron bars in attack
> on school children"
>
> *
> http://10news.dk/?p=1698
> "General Secretary for Danish Refugee Help changes his mind, predicts
> “Armageddon” "
>
> *
> http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
> "Sweden: Rape Capital of the West"
> "Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to
> change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country,
> violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now
> number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in
> Southern Africa."
>
> *
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
>
> *
>
> http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/
> "
> German Schools Order Girls Not to Wear Short Skirts to Avoid Offending
> Muslim Migrants
> Parents warned revealing clothes could lead to "attacks"
> Schools in Germany are ordering teenage girls not to wear mini-skirts
> or shorts so as to prevent attacks from Muslim migrants who may be
> offended by such attire.
>
> A school located in Pocking, Bavaria sent a letter to parents advising
> them of new “security measures” after a migrant shelter was opened at
> the school’s nearby gym.
> "
>
> *
>
> http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/09/08/german-media-ignore-7-year-old-german-girl-savagely-raped-by-a-north-african-muslim-invader/
>
> *
>
> http://www.iris.org.il/blog/index.php?url=archives/757-Pan-European-Arab-Muslim-Gang-Rape-Epidemic.html&serendipity[cview]=linear
> "Today's news from Germany buries the fact that the gang rapists of a
> 13 year-old were likely Arab Muslim immigrants:
> Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed
> http://www.iris.org.il/blog/exit.php?url_id=52881&entry_id=757
>
>
> * Original link (of forwarded email):
>
> http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/09/10/before-you-follow-pope-francis-command-to-prove-yourselves-worthy-of-him/
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56EqUPwyFQ
>
>
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From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 06:35:33 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 06:35:33 -0700
Subject: Four things to know about presidential hopeful John McAfee
In-Reply-To: <55f4b0bd.0aa58c0a.36ebc.ffffe4c8@mx.google.com>
References: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>
 <6528eb31499c2a693a4295c1718ea574@cryptolab.net>
 <55f4b0bd.0aa58c0a.36ebc.ffffe4c8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RXJp=_TCL4X3ywzmXx=d4N+319RrGU9yg--=k2f+FC9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/12/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 	obviously using a fake bullet.

Juan, you are operating on an assumption about reality that is wrong.




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sun Sep 13 06:57:27 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 06:57:27 -0700
Subject: Some stats,
 thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command to prove
 yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <2781756.B4nkIG6ikE@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2781756.B4nkIG6ikE@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150913135711.A24A76800E3@frontend2.nyi.internal>

On September 13, 2015 5:29:23 AM rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 10:08:22 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> > German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?
> > (...)
>
> Where oh where is [Beetlejuice] when we need her?

Ftfy.  Don't SAY that!  :p

-s

P.s., to OP:  pls find more amusing chain letters if you're going to post 
crap here.  419eater has loads of entertaining spam if you're at a loss.





From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Sep 13 01:33:00 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:33:00 +0000
Subject: German man gets a little fed up with media lies about refugees -
 youtube
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQyc6-P4zJ1sJ0-5XRRW81OjxfM=3sgDhVjppgSBdYtBQ@mail.gmail.com>

I found this here:
"Think Germans Aren't Fed Up with Their Media (and the US)? Listen to
This Man (Video) "
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/think-germans-arent-fed-their-media-and-us-listen-man-video/ri9693

The video has subtitles for those who don't speak German. This is the filename:
German man could not hear media lies about refugees _ Eng Subs-c1PEWCmEMJM.mp4

The video is "only" 6.7MiB. It's quite short.

This is the youtube direct address:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1PEWCmEMJM

For those with command line download ability (yes, you can keep a copy
:) this is the command:
youtube-dl --all-subs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1PEWCmEMJM

Enjoy,
Zenaan

PS Here is the transcript for those who might struggle to download a
youtube - although I recommend the youtube, it is enjoyable :)
Music: Are you holding us for fools?
People, I cant believe it! I am listening to the news.
I am in the car again,
listening to SWR3, and they are really saying believe it or not...
that the reasons for refugee flows are
Syrian President Bashar Assad and ISIS.
These are the reasons for the waves of refugees.
Are you holding us for fools?
Nobody from our God forsaken, impudent, shitty,
state serving media is saying that
America is the cause of all these problems,
American foreign policy.
Nobody is talking, everybody is keeping quiet.
Assad and ISIS (are guilty)
Who is responsible for the chaos in this whole region?
Americans supported ISIS in fight against Assad.
Same way they supported Taliban in fight against Russians.
Same way they supported Nazis in fight against Communists, against Russia,
against Soviet Union.
Americans are ready to support even devil himself
to accomplish their goal.
And if the devil goes out of control,
like Nazis, Taliban or as ISIS now...
they, again, are not telling
that they are behind this.
God dammit!!!
People have to believe this shitty media
that Assad and ISIS are responsible.
But how did ISIS come to be?
In the end everybody is fighting the symptoms again,
and nobody wants to name the root cause.
I'm ready to explode in anger
because they are fooling us again.
Yes, they are fooling us again.
And I cannot wait until video shoot on Saturday.
I am gonna be jumping 3 times higher there
because I am really mad about this blatant lie in the media
who make me very angry.
This is insolence toward all people!!
First they lay the ground for the chaos with refugees
and than, they don't name the cause, God dammit!!!
And for the price of suffering of these poor people
the whole region is gonna be bombed anyways.
And they don't give a damn what's left after.
The main thing is to get mineral resources (oil, etc).
I am sick of this, I am throwing up in anger
from this shit I am hearing again on the radio.
Turn of this damn radio.
I am listening to this only to know
what kind of sleazy language they are using
so that people would dumb down and go crazy.
F*cking media and press!!!
I am sick of this.
DIE STIMME DES ZORNS, C-Rebell-um [Voice of Anger].




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Sep 13 03:08:22 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:08:22 +0000
Subject: Some stats, thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command to
 prove yourselves worthy of him.
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>

German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?

(some stats and graphs are mixed in some of the articles below)


*
https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/judge-finds-german-woman-guilty-of-raping-eight-pakistani-muslim-men/
"Judge Finds German Woman Guilty of Raping Eight Pakistani Muslim Men
April 22, 2013
"In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found
guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind
in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of
August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was
sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally
and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help
repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she
was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken.

Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no
evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure
her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police
Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to
corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the
large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year
stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in
order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with
traditional Islamic jurisprudence. "

*
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/horror-muslim-migrant-in-europe-brutally-rapes-7-year-old-white-girl-video/
Sep 9th, 2015
"A little 7 year old girl was brutally raped by a Muslim migrant from
North Africa.
The girl was with her mother in the park in Chemnitz, Germany, when a
Muslim man dragged her into the bush, held her mouth shut and brutally
raped the little girl.
After he finished the rape, he let the girl go and left the crime
scene running. It happened quick that the mother did not even notice
anything. She first realized it when the seven year old girl came
crying to her."

http://clashdaily.com/2015/09/muslim-migrant-dragged-7yr-old-white-girl-into-bushes-and-brutally-raped-her/
"This is exactly what the media doesn’t want you to know – but they
are completely ignoring it. Let’s make it heard everywhere."

*
https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/
"Schools in Germany order girls to cover up to avoid being attacked by
Muslim refugees
  September 9, 2015
In yet another startling fact about the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis
that the liberal media is completely ignoring, school officials in
Germany are warning teenage girls to avoid wearing certain attire for
fear of offending Muslim refugees."

*
http://www.infowars.com/feminists-mute-on-muslim-rape-epidemic-sweeping-europe/

*
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/01/rape-jihad-europes-muslims-name-their-rape-gangs-take-your-turn-polish-men-send-message-to-rapists/

*
http://www.examiner.com/article/poland-men-band-together-to-escort-women-protect-from-rape-gangs?cid=db_articlesPolish

*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Sexual_crimes

*
http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2014/01/09/open-doors-survey/724536

*
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1246349
"Not so very many years ago, Oslo was virtually a rape-free city,
inhabited by people who had been brought up on civilized notions of
mutual respect and tolerance. No longer. Over the years, the incidence
of rape has risen steadily. A wildly disproportionate number of the
perpetrators are "rejected asylum seekers” – which may sound puzzling
unless you are aware of the perverse state of affairs whereby even
persons officially rejected for asylum in Norway are still allowed to
stay. And the increasing temerity of the rapists – who know very well
that they will probably not be caught, and, if caught, will not be
severely punished – is reflected in the fact that the most recent rape
(in which two men assaulted a 21-year-old woman) took place virtually
in the backyard of the Royal Palace."

*
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/
"The total Muslim population in Sweden is estimated at 4.4% (2013
figures). Out of that 4.4% and in deducting the women and children, we
can roughly guesstimate that around 2% are male. The foreign rape
figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish
polish in a phone conversation. The actual figure could be higher.
These percentages do not include Muslims with Swedish citizenship
contained within rapes in the figures categorized under “Swedish
nationals”."

*
https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
"According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it
is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared
to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya,
Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to
these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In
Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which
frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape
statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of
three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and
even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape
charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population
than any other country in northern Europe."

*
http://10news.dk/nicolai-sennels-psychologist-islam-root-cause-of-grooming-and-rape-wave/

*
http://10news.dk/?p=1723
"Germany: 20-30 Albanians use knives, machetes and iron bars in attack
on school children"

*
http://10news.dk/?p=1698
"General Secretary for Danish Refugee Help changes his mind, predicts
“Armageddon” "

*
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
"Sweden: Rape Capital of the West"
"Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to
change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country,
violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now
number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in
Southern Africa."

*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

*
http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/
"
German Schools Order Girls Not to Wear Short Skirts to Avoid Offending
Muslim Migrants
Parents warned revealing clothes could lead to "attacks"
Schools in Germany are ordering teenage girls not to wear mini-skirts
or shorts so as to prevent attacks from Muslim migrants who may be
offended by such attire.

A school located in Pocking, Bavaria sent a letter to parents advising
them of new “security measures” after a migrant shelter was opened at
the school’s nearby gym.
"

*
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/09/08/german-media-ignore-7-year-old-german-girl-savagely-raped-by-a-north-african-muslim-invader/

*
http://www.iris.org.il/blog/index.php?url=archives/757-Pan-European-Arab-Muslim-Gang-Rape-Epidemic.html&serendipity[cview]=linear
"Today's news from Germany buries the fact that the gang rapists of a
13 year-old were likely Arab Muslim immigrants:
Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed
http://www.iris.org.il/blog/exit.php?url_id=52881&entry_id=757


* Original link (of forwarded email):
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/09/10/before-you-follow-pope-francis-command-to-prove-yourselves-worthy-of-him/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56EqUPwyFQ




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Sep 13 10:36:12 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:36:12 -0700
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>

On 09/12/2015 01:50 PM, Juan wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:21:56 -0700
> Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
>> To wit, here's a critical US history book that was popular at US
>> colleges during the 60s by Richard Hofstadter called "The American
>> Political Tradition"
>>
>> https://mega.nz/#!2A8EkYiS!ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928
>> <https://mega.nz/#%212A8EkYiS%21ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928>
>> (pdf, 34mb)
>
> 	Thank Razer! I tried a couple of different browsers and just
> 	got a blank page. Not sure if it's something at my end, some
> 	temporary problem with mega, or what. 
>

Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv shows no
trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser, or something
related...

Try this @000webhost. About three minutes to download over a wireless
connection. Link's broken because riseup doesn't 'like' 000web.

http://toolofheresy. herobo
.com/files/The%20American%20Political%20Tradition%20-%20Hofstadter,%20Richard.pdf

Note that this IS a free account. Bandwidth and bytes transfered have
limitation but I doubt, unless EVERYONE on the list d/ls it at once,
there should be a problem...



>> If you do not read anything else, read the forward and the first
>> chapter about our 'founding fathers'. Sick pieces of shit... OFC the
>> author doesn't refer to them as such but the picture painted is
>> tainted by it.
>>
>




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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Sun Sep 13 03:38:23 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:38:23 +0100
Subject: Some stats, thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command
 to prove yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F5521F.6030408@openmailbox.org>

Now if the US and UK had just gone ahead and used Nukes during the Gulf
War then we wouldn't have to worry about this :D

On 13/09/15 11:08, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?
>
> (some stats and graphs are mixed in some of the articles below)
>
>
> *
> https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/judge-finds-german-woman-guilty-of-raping-eight-pakistani-muslim-men/
> "Judge Finds German Woman Guilty of Raping Eight Pakistani Muslim Men
> April 22, 2013
> "In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found
> guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind
> in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of
> August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was
> sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally
> and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help
> repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she
> was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken.
>
> Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no
> evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure
> her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police
> Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to
> corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the
> large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year
> stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in
> order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with
> traditional Islamic jurisprudence. "
>
> *
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/horror-muslim-migrant-in-europe-brutally-rapes-7-year-old-white-girl-video/
> Sep 9th, 2015
> "A little 7 year old girl was brutally raped by a Muslim migrant from
> North Africa.
> The girl was with her mother in the park in Chemnitz, Germany, when a
> Muslim man dragged her into the bush, held her mouth shut and brutally
> raped the little girl.
> After he finished the rape, he let the girl go and left the crime
> scene running. It happened quick that the mother did not even notice
> anything. She first realized it when the seven year old girl came
> crying to her."
>
> http://clashdaily.com/2015/09/muslim-migrant-dragged-7yr-old-white-girl-into-bushes-and-brutally-raped-her/
> "This is exactly what the media doesn’t want you to know – but they
> are completely ignoring it. Let’s make it heard everywhere."
>
> *
> https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/
> "Schools in Germany order girls to cover up to avoid being attacked by
> Muslim refugees
>   September 9, 2015
> In yet another startling fact about the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis
> that the liberal media is completely ignoring, school officials in
> Germany are warning teenage girls to avoid wearing certain attire for
> fear of offending Muslim refugees."
>
> *
> http://www.infowars.com/feminists-mute-on-muslim-rape-epidemic-sweeping-europe/
>
> *
> http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/01/rape-jihad-europes-muslims-name-their-rape-gangs-take-your-turn-polish-men-send-message-to-rapists/
>
> *
> http://www.examiner.com/article/poland-men-band-together-to-escort-women-protect-from-rape-gangs?cid=db_articlesPolish
>
> *
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Sexual_crimes
>
> *
> http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2014/01/09/open-doors-survey/724536
>
> *
> http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1246349
> "Not so very many years ago, Oslo was virtually a rape-free city,
> inhabited by people who had been brought up on civilized notions of
> mutual respect and tolerance. No longer. Over the years, the incidence
> of rape has risen steadily. A wildly disproportionate number of the
> perpetrators are "rejected asylum seekers” – which may sound puzzling
> unless you are aware of the perverse state of affairs whereby even
> persons officially rejected for asylum in Norway are still allowed to
> stay. And the increasing temerity of the rapists – who know very well
> that they will probably not be caught, and, if caught, will not be
> severely punished – is reflected in the fact that the most recent rape
> (in which two men assaulted a 21-year-old woman) took place virtually
> in the backyard of the Royal Palace."
>
> *
> https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/
> "The total Muslim population in Sweden is estimated at 4.4% (2013
> figures). Out of that 4.4% and in deducting the women and children, we
> can roughly guesstimate that around 2% are male. The foreign rape
> figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish
> polish in a phone conversation. The actual figure could be higher.
> These percentages do not include Muslims with Swedish citizenship
> contained within rapes in the figures categorized under “Swedish
> nationals”."
>
> *
> https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
> "According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it
> is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared
> to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya,
> Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to
> these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In
> Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which
> frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape
> statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of
> three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and
> even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape
> charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population
> than any other country in northern Europe."
>
> *
> http://10news.dk/nicolai-sennels-psychologist-islam-root-cause-of-grooming-and-rape-wave/
>
> *
> http://10news.dk/?p=1723
> "Germany: 20-30 Albanians use knives, machetes and iron bars in attack
> on school children"
>
> *
> http://10news.dk/?p=1698
> "General Secretary for Danish Refugee Help changes his mind, predicts
> “Armageddon” "
>
> *
> http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
> "Sweden: Rape Capital of the West"
> "Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to
> change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country,
> violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now
> number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in
> Southern Africa."
>
> *
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
>
> *
> http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/
> "
> German Schools Order Girls Not to Wear Short Skirts to Avoid Offending
> Muslim Migrants
> Parents warned revealing clothes could lead to "attacks"
> Schools in Germany are ordering teenage girls not to wear mini-skirts
> or shorts so as to prevent attacks from Muslim migrants who may be
> offended by such attire.
>
> A school located in Pocking, Bavaria sent a letter to parents advising
> them of new “security measures” after a migrant shelter was opened at
> the school’s nearby gym.
> "
>
> *
> http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/09/08/german-media-ignore-7-year-old-german-girl-savagely-raped-by-a-north-african-muslim-invader/
>
> *
> http://www.iris.org.il/blog/index.php?url=archives/757-Pan-European-Arab-Muslim-Gang-Rape-Epidemic.html&serendipity[cview]=linear
> "Today's news from Germany buries the fact that the gang rapists of a
> 13 year-old were likely Arab Muslim immigrants:
> Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed
> http://www.iris.org.il/blog/exit.php?url_id=52881&entry_id=757
>
>
> * Original link (of forwarded email):
> http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/09/10/before-you-follow-pope-francis-command-to-prove-yourselves-worthy-of-him/
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56EqUPwyFQ
>


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Sep 13 11:55:59 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:55:59 -0700
Subject: I've never been into Astrology, but...
In-Reply-To: <857894464.1616614.1442107735186.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <857894464.1616614.1442107735186.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55F5C6BF.5020708@riseup.net>

http://freewillastrology.com/

Check the band he used to front, World Entertainment War
http://freewillastrology.com/cds/
(free music)

> World Entertainment War Fights the Genocide of the Imagination
>
> We will succeed where the paranoids have failed!
>
> We will take back the airwaves from the entertainment criminals!
>
> Long live the primordial music of our televisionary revolution!

A Post-Punk Post-New Wave Jazz-Rock Industrial pagan ritual in music
designed to take the media back from the entertainment criminals and
hopefully turn it around and use it against them... Pre-Adbusters.

Example:
> DARK AGES
>
> What time is it, boys and girls?
> It's time for the Dark Ages!
>
> Your nightmares and traumas
> can make you rich and famous
> Commercials can teach you
> all that you need to know
> Kiss my flag    Don't look back
> The past is gaining on us
> Read my lips    Watch my hips
> These are the Dark Ages
>
> George Orwell's dream came true
> But no one realizes
> It crushed us so nicely
> with so much wit and style
> Entertainment might as well be
> just like a rocket launcher
> Too bad it's in the hands of the enemy
> Nobody believes me
> And so I know that I'm right
> Charisma addiction gives me a deja vu
> Is this like Germany in the 1930s?
> Do we have to live through the apocalypse again?
>
> Might be the Dark Ages
> But we're so happy
> Happy to be here today
>
> You never know when you
> might have to face the censor
> So I don't pretend to
> want to make too much sense
> Revolution on TV
> in far-off distant countries
> Too bad it's just another mini-series here
> Nobody believes me
> And so I know that I'm right
> Charisma hangover
> has got to wear off soon
> Could this be like Eastern Europe
> in the 1990s?
> Will we ever get a chance
> to have Perestroika here?
>

http://www.freewillastrology.com/darkages.mp3





On 09/12/2015 06:28 PM, jim bell wrote:
> http://hexagoninfulleffect.com/2013/02/07/sun-in-aries-moon-in-scorpio-night-terrors-primal-instincts-and-going-deep-cover/
>
> One of the more curious web pages I've seen recently.
>           Jim Bell


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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Sep 13 03:58:59 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 11:58:59 +0100
Subject: Some stats,
 thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command to prove
 yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07120F1B-3A0D-49BA-9295-F4246F3AFE49@cathalgarvey.me>

Could you please keep the racist look-how-awful-immigrants-are shit off Cypherpunks and keep on-topic? Thx.

On 13 September 2015 11:08:22 IST, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
>German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?
>
>(some stats and graphs are mixed in some of the articles below)
>
>
>*
>https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/judge-finds-german-woman-guilty-of-raping-eight-pakistani-muslim-men/
>"Judge Finds German Woman Guilty of Raping Eight Pakistani Muslim Men
>April 22, 2013
>"In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found
>guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind
>in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of
>August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was
>sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally
>and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help
>repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she
>was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken.
>
>Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no
>evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure
>her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police
>Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to
>corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the
>large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year
>stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in
>order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with
>traditional Islamic jurisprudence. "
>
>*
>http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/horror-muslim-migrant-in-europe-brutally-rapes-7-year-old-white-girl-video/
>Sep 9th, 2015
>"A little 7 year old girl was brutally raped by a Muslim migrant from
>North Africa.
>The girl was with her mother in the park in Chemnitz, Germany, when a
>Muslim man dragged her into the bush, held her mouth shut and brutally
>raped the little girl.
>After he finished the rape, he let the girl go and left the crime
>scene running. It happened quick that the mother did not even notice
>anything. She first realized it when the seven year old girl came
>crying to her."
>
>http://clashdaily.com/2015/09/muslim-migrant-dragged-7yr-old-white-girl-into-bushes-and-brutally-raped-her/
>"This is exactly what the media doesn’t want you to know – but they
>are completely ignoring it. Let’s make it heard everywhere."
>
>*
>https://www.intellihub.com/schools-in-germany-order-girls-to-cover-up-to-avoid-being-attacked-by-muslim-refugees/
>"Schools in Germany order girls to cover up to avoid being attacked by
>Muslim refugees
>  September 9, 2015
>In yet another startling fact about the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis
>that the liberal media is completely ignoring, school officials in
>Germany are warning teenage girls to avoid wearing certain attire for
>fear of offending Muslim refugees."
>
>*
>http://www.infowars.com/feminists-mute-on-muslim-rape-epidemic-sweeping-europe/
>
>*
>http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/01/rape-jihad-europes-muslims-name-their-rape-gangs-take-your-turn-polish-men-send-message-to-rapists/
>
>*
>http://www.examiner.com/article/poland-men-band-together-to-escort-women-protect-from-rape-gangs?cid=db_articlesPolish
>
>*
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Norway#Sexual_crimes
>
>*
>http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2014/01/09/open-doors-survey/724536
>
>*
>http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1246349
>"Not so very many years ago, Oslo was virtually a rape-free city,
>inhabited by people who had been brought up on civilized notions of
>mutual respect and tolerance. No longer. Over the years, the incidence
>of rape has risen steadily. A wildly disproportionate number of the
>perpetrators are "rejected asylum seekers” – which may sound puzzling
>unless you are aware of the perverse state of affairs whereby even
>persons officially rejected for asylum in Norway are still allowed to
>stay. And the increasing temerity of the rapists – who know very well
>that they will probably not be caught, and, if caught, will not be
>severely punished – is reflected in the fact that the most recent rape
>(in which two men assaulted a 21-year-old woman) took place virtually
>in the backyard of the Royal Palace."
>
>*
>https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/
>"The total Muslim population in Sweden is estimated at 4.4% (2013
>figures). Out of that 4.4% and in deducting the women and children, we
>can roughly guesstimate that around 2% are male. The foreign rape
>figures at 77.6% Muslim has been anonymously confirmed by Swedish
>polish in a phone conversation. The actual figure could be higher.
>These percentages do not include Muslims with Swedish citizenship
>contained within rapes in the figures categorized under “Swedish
>nationals”."
>
>*
>https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/
>"According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it
>is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared
>to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya,
>Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to
>these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In
>Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which
>frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape
>statistics. In Oslo, Norway, immigrants were involved in two out of
>three rape charges in 2001. The numbers in Denmark were the same, and
>even higher in the city of Copenhagen with three out of four rape
>charges. Sweden has a larger immigrant, including Muslim, population
>than any other country in northern Europe."
>
>*
>http://10news.dk/nicolai-sennels-psychologist-islam-root-cause-of-grooming-and-rape-wave/
>
>*
>http://10news.dk/?p=1723
>"Germany: 20-30 Albanians use knives, machetes and iron bars in attack
>on school children"
>
>*
>http://10news.dk/?p=1698
>"General Secretary for Danish Refugee Help changes his mind, predicts
>“Armageddon” "
>
>*
>http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
>"Sweden: Rape Capital of the West"
>"Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to
>change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country,
>violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now
>number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in
>Southern Africa."
>
>*
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
>
>*
>http://www.infowars.com/german-schools-order-girls-not-to-wear-short-skirts-to-avoid-offending-muslim-migrants/
>"
>German Schools Order Girls Not to Wear Short Skirts to Avoid Offending
>Muslim Migrants
>Parents warned revealing clothes could lead to "attacks"
>Schools in Germany are ordering teenage girls not to wear mini-skirts
>or shorts so as to prevent attacks from Muslim migrants who may be
>offended by such attire.
>
>A school located in Pocking, Bavaria sent a letter to parents advising
>them of new “security measures” after a migrant shelter was opened at
>the school’s nearby gym.
>"
>
>*
>http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/09/08/german-media-ignore-7-year-old-german-girl-savagely-raped-by-a-north-african-muslim-invader/
>
>*
>http://www.iris.org.il/blog/index.php?url=archives/757-Pan-European-Arab-Muslim-Gang-Rape-Epidemic.html&serendipity[cview]=linear
>"Today's news from Germany buries the fact that the gang rapists of a
>13 year-old were likely Arab Muslim immigrants:
>Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed
>http://www.iris.org.il/blog/exit.php?url_id=52881&entry_id=757
>
>
>* Original link (of forwarded email):
>http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/09/10/before-you-follow-pope-francis-command-to-prove-yourselves-worthy-of-him/
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56EqUPwyFQ

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Sep 13 10:57:34 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:57:34 -0400
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hofstadter Introduction and Chapter 1:

https://cryptome.org/hofstadter-intro-chap-1.pdf


At 01:36 PM 9/13/2015, Razer wrote:
>On 09/12/2015 01:50 PM, Juan wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:21:56 -0700
> > Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> To wit, here's a critical US history book that was popular at US
> >> colleges during the 60s by Richard Hofstadter called "The American
> >> Political Tradition"
> >>
> >> https://mega.nz/#!2A8EkYiS!ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928
> >> 
> <https://mega.nz/#%212A8EkYiS%21ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928>
> >> (pdf, 34mb)
> >
> >       Thank Razer! I tried a couple of different browsers and just
> >       got a blank page. Not sure if it's something at my end, some
> >       temporary problem with mega, or what.
> >
>
>Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv shows no
>trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser, or something
>related...
>
>Try this @000webhost. About three minutes to download over a wireless
>connection. Link's broken because riseup doesn't 'like' 000web.
>
>http://toolofheresy. herobo
>.com/files/The%20American%20Political%20Tradition%20-%20Hofstadter,%20Richard.pdf
>
>Note that this IS a free account. Bandwidth and bytes transfered have
>limitation but I doubt, unless EVERYONE on the list d/ls it at once,
>there should be a problem...
>
>
>
> >> If you do not read anything else, read the forward and the first
> >> chapter about our 'founding fathers'. Sick pieces of shit... OFC the
> >> author doesn't refer to them as such but the picture painted is
> >> tainted by it.
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>





From enki at fsck.pl  Sun Sep 13 05:07:52 2015
From: enki at fsck.pl (enki)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:07:52 +0200
Subject: Some stats, thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis'
 command to prove yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14fc69ab895.c653b746342230.8843624373519190950@fsck.pl>

---- Wł. N, 13 wrz 2015 12:08:22 +0200 Zenaan Harkness  napisał(a) ---- 
>German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls? 
> 
>(some stats and graphs are mixed in some of the articles below) 
> 
> 
>* 
>https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/judge-finds-german-woman-guilty-of-raping-eight-pakistani-muslim-men/ 
>"Judge Finds German Woman Guilty of Raping Eight Pakistani Muslim Men 
>April 22, 2013 
>"In the City of Wassenberg in Western Germany a woman has been found 
>guilty of seducing and raping eight men in the first case of its kind 
>in Europe. Maria Heidelsohn aged 18 alleges that on the afternoon of 
>August 23rd she was pulled away by eight men from the porch she was 
>sun bathing on and carried into a small shed in which she was brutally 
>and repeatedly gang raped. Heidelsohn alleges that she cried for help 
>repeatedly until she was bound and gagged, she then claims that she 
>was beaten severely and both of her arms and one leg were broken. 
> 
>Wassenbeg Police Chief Abdullah Al Hussein contends that there is no 
>evidence Heidelsohn did not injure herself or ask a friend to injure 
>her in order to attempt to frame up her alleged attackers. The Police 
>Chief noted that no male adult Muslim men saw the attack occur to 
>corroborate her story despite the area being largely Muslim. In the 
>large German town new legislation passed overwhelmingly last year 
>stipulates that four adult male Muslim witnesses are necessary in 
>order to corroborate any charges made by a woman in accordance with 
>traditional Islamic jurisprudence. " 
> 

O RLY? https://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/disclaimer/:

"""
The original content on this blog is largely satirical.

“I ceased in the year 1764 to believe that one can convince one’s opponents with arguments printed in books. It is not to do that, therefore, that I have taken up my pen, but merely so as to annoy them, and to bestow strength and courage on those on our own side, and to make it known to the others that they have not convinced us.” – Georg Christoph Lichtenberg.

It is in the spirit of the above quote that I write. Who am I you may ask? My name is Erik Thorson. I created this blog for my own personal amusement. 
""""

Also: http://www.hoax-slayer.com/woman-raping-eight-men-satire.shtml

You fail on this one. I have not read your other sources but maybe you should doublecheck them as well.

-- 
Pozdr,
enki at fsck.pl





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 13 05:22:44 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:22:44 +0200
Subject: Some stats,
 thanks - Fwd: Before you follow Pope Francis' command to prove
 yourselves worthy of him.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSh_PfJkBHTKsuEV+O=8UT41jCexOKDgU-4vn5e4OQSBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2781756.B4nkIG6ikE@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 10:08:22 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> German (Swedish, Nordic, Aussie, Christian) men, have you any balls?
> (...)

Where oh where is Cari Machet when we need her?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 13 05:15:00 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 15:15:00 +0300
Subject: Possible crypto backdoor in RFC-2631 Diffie-Hellman Key
 Agreement Method
In-Reply-To: <20150910113908.GB2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150903112721.GA2732@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4AF0463@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150904082605.GA2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904113437.GB2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150904120816.GC2705@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150905052803.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CA+bTbPDoQi030MN4j8E4fmx_KOQP48xsbJjGM4X2rk=_E3zgZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910113908.GB2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150913121500.GA2654@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:39:08PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> FYI:
> 
> This is on libressl-dev:
> 
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.libressl/74
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.libressl
>

 From libressl's commits (modulo me being MITMed)

https://github.com/libressl-portable/portable/commit/105c86f3ed1508e9bb55ea3e59670b388ec7a076

first round of 2.3.0 release notes

[line 52] 
+  Thanks for <censored>  for
+  mentioning the possibility of a weak (non prime) q value and
+  providing a test case.
+
+  See
+  https://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-September/009007.html
+  for a longer discussion.





From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 13 06:42:56 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 16:42:56 +0300
Subject: Four things to know about presidential hopeful John McAfee
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RXJp=_TCL4X3ywzmXx=d4N+319RrGU9yg--=k2f+FC9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55F48AB2.8000909@riseup.net>
 <6528eb31499c2a693a4295c1718ea574@cryptolab.net>
 <55f4b0bd.0aa58c0a.36ebc.ffffe4c8@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXJp=_TCL4X3ywzmXx=d4N+319RrGU9yg--=k2f+FC9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150913134256.GB2654@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 06:35:33AM -0700, coderman wrote:
> On 9/12/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 	obviously using a fake bullet.
> 
> Juan, you are operating on an assumption about reality that is wrong.

What about seeing this on, say, CNN in a _sound_ russian roulette
experiment? For me 10^3 times is nearly enough for his immortality.





From carimachet at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 08:48:56 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 18:48:56 +0300
Subject: [tor-talk] Library installs Tor exit node; pulls plug after
 pressure from DHS
In-Reply-To: <280efa62cb67b88beb48af7eb22789cf@thinkpenguin.com>
References: <14fb8d70f10.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <20150910200217.2E95068006C@frontend2.nyi.internal>
 <CAD2Ti2-zSaqEy9nQzd0+eHDE_jP-RXc-7zMFHDtVMuyQPyZb-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_tnYemNa9ue7ThUco1XywKJ7-2ABX5TiDKsg21yX_09Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <280efa62cb67b88beb48af7eb22789cf@thinkpenguin.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQW9csn5v2gerO9z9JnRJFR96=dmX=b+E1jh9O9DRPrwDA@mail.gmail.com>

as i have stated i dont trust tor because monolithic and we need more
solutions than shit developed by the state but it could be a beautiful
lawsuit against the federal gov - those are needed for sure everywhere
anywhere - state sovereignty needs more legal enactment
On Sep 12, 2015 3:31 AM, "Chris" <tmail299 at errtech.com> wrote:

> On 2015-09-11 07:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>
>> A lot of support should be lent right now to the city managers, library
>>> board,
>>> and the community. You don't want the first one to be publicly quashed by
>>> a bunch of shameful LEA fearmongering.
>>> Show up the board meeting, you can bet they will.
>>>
>>
>> Someone should also see about notifying these folks,
>> you might end up with an entire state full of relays...
>>
>
> - Free State Participant Here (not in NH yet though) -
>
> I actually was wondering if it wasn't FSP participants who were working on
> the relays in the first place... though that said on a prior brief attempt
> to identify the main participants in the library project I could find no
> obvious connections. However that doesn't surprise me. I've also not
> identified any participation by other individuals in the FSP despite
> seeming like highly likely participants (for instance Ross Ulbricht of Silk
> Road fame holds many views held by said participants and his mother has
> even talked at multiple FSP events post arrest).
>
> Unfortunately I haven't gotten very far with another campaign regarding
> the FCC's efforts to force manufacturers to lock down devices on Free Talk
> Live (which does promote the Free State Project and is run out of Keene,
> NH). I called in briefly as the show generally doesn't do interviews /
> talks and like many other shows. Rather they let anybody call in about
> anything (ie the name Free Talk Live). That said I'd still encourage people
> to call into Free Talk Live. Multiple people coordinating it would be a
> smart move and I'd be happy to participate in such a campaign to 'target
> FTL' (they wouldn't object).
>
> The site and call in # can be found at https://www.freetalklive.com/ and
> the show airs daily on the east coast from 7PM-10PM 7 days a week.
>
> There are other FSP media outlets (ie libtery-minded outlets heavily
> involved in the FSP). The Free Talk Live show seems to be the most
> outstanding from FSP events I've attended (ie they show up to Porcfest in
> the summer, which is an FSP summer camping event, and Liberty Forum,
> another winter event, traditional conference style).
>
> https://www.freetalklive.com/
>
> * Also just noticed in on the site that there is a link to an article on
> the issue already.
>
> Another show is Freedom Phoenix. I've had a lot of luck here, but I
> believe it is out in Arizona (ie phoenix). Not sure who in the NH region if
> anybody listens to it, but I know they've covered Porcfest before. I've
> been on the show twice and will be on for a third time this coming week
> (Tuesday September 15th) to talk about the FCC's efforts to ban free
> software (practical result/outcome of rule changes, not specific objective
> necessarily).
>
> https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/
>
> You might also try:
>
> http://freekeene.com/
>
> http://lrn.fm
>
> http://copyblock.org
>
> http://libertyconspiracy.com/
>
> http://www.katherinealbrecht.com/
>
> http://schoolsucksproject.com/
>
> http://www.shirelibertynews.com/
>
> http://www.youtube.com/user/RidleyReport
>
> You might check out 411 Activist TXT Msg Distribution Service which sends
> out a message to all activists cell phones in the area:
>
>
> http://forum.shiresociety.com/discussion/5744/keene-411-v-2-0-activist-txt-msg-distribution-service/p1
>
> Keene is about an hour away...
>
> There is also Free Grafton 40 minutes away (
> http://www.freetownproject.com/new_hampshire_town.html)
>
> There is also Free Concord an hour 20 minutes away (
> http://freeconcord.org/)
>
>
>
>> https://freestateproject.org/
>> http://forum.freestateproject.org/
>>
> --
> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 15:03:07 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:03:07 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <55f5f197.66168c0a.ad40f.5880@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:36:12 -0700
Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 09/12/2015 01:50 PM, Juan wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:21:56 -0700
> > Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> To wit, here's a critical US history book that was popular at US
> >> colleges during the 60s by Richard Hofstadter called "The American
> >> Political Tradition"
> >>
> >> https://mega.nz/#!2A8EkYiS!ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928
> >> <https://mega.nz/#%212A8EkYiS%21ml3aaZOp1dngBd_M6GprwkXGD9ZhFqaa-Xmfiadb928>
> >> (pdf, 34mb)
> >
> > 	Thank Razer! I tried a couple of different browsers and just
> > 	got a blank page. Not sure if it's something at my end, some
> > 	temporary problem with mega, or what. 
> >
> 
> Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv shows no
> trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser, or something
> related...


	Yes, there's something wrong here, my bad. https://mega.nz
	doesn't load either (investigating...)


> 
> Try this @000webhost. About three minutes to download over a wireless
> connection. Link's broken because riseup doesn't 'like' 000web.
> 
> http://toolofheresy. herobo
> .com/files/The%20American%20Political%20Tradition%20-%20Hofstadter,%20Richard.pdf


	Got it! Thanks Razer!!



> 
> Note that this IS a free account. Bandwidth and bytes transfered have
> limitation but I doubt, unless EVERYONE on the list d/ls it at once,
> there should be a problem...
> 
> 
> 
> >> If you do not read anything else, read the forward and the first
> >> chapter about our 'founding fathers'. Sick pieces of shit... OFC
> >> the author doesn't refer to them as such but the picture painted is
> >> tainted by it.
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 




From admin at pilobilus.net  Mon Sep 14 01:17:10 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 04:17:10 -0400
Subject: Anyone familiar with SEO (Search Engine Optimization) techniques?
 I have a mystery.
In-Reply-To: <1442063247.21762.6.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <1109550241.1333849.1442027888976.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1442063247.21762.6.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <55F68286.6030200@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/12/2015 09:07 AM, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:

[...]

> The best defense against this is may be to better advertise
> what they are trying to drown out with the spam, either
> intentionally or not.

Exactly.

Google employs two contractors with an army of humans to review
websites for "quality". Among other things they check for keyword
stuffing, hidden text irrelevant to the site's content, etc.; on
discovery, offending sites are de-rated and "sandboxed" so that
only searches for the exact URL of the offender's site appear in
Google search results. But an SEO contractor with hundreds of
totally ignorant clients (i.e., hundreds of clients) can spread a
well paid (or personal grudge based) suppression campaign like the
one described across hundreds of domains to keep the spam alive
and working.

The distribution of "search spam" that is referenced here could be
bad luck - some sleazy SEO contractor cut and pasted the text just
because it was natural language and contained specific terms
relevant to some of their customers' sites.  Or, and IMO more
likely, someone contracted to have the info in question removed
from the Internet by poisoning search indexes.

Either way, if you put up a web page that has the relevant text in
it, that page should rise above the irrelevant crap in search
results within a couple of months.  The specific search terms you
want to become findable should be included in an H1 header at or
near the top of the page, and in the first paragraph.  Naming an
image on the page to include these words is an undocumented but
effective trick.  The same words and phrases should be included in
the "description" meta-tag field of the page header.  (The
"keywords" meta-tag is ignored by search engines that use natural
language analysis to categorize pages, i.e. all search engines today
.)

For best results, ask folks on THIS list (and elsewhere) to go out
of their way to put links to your own counter-attacking page on
their own websites, with search terms that have been poisoned by
the SEO contractor as the visible text of the hyperlink.  Links on
a half dozen pages with Google page ranks of 2 or above can work
wonders.

Much as I hate to say this, setting up a Google Analytics account
and adding their tracking code to your counter-attack page is a
good idea, because pages with the analytics.js code will get
crawled and indexed faster.  People who "care about privacy" won't
be affected because their browsers won't download or execute the
javascript.

A saboteur who has to hide his weaponized text from human website
visitors (and the "owners" of the websites used) can't compete
against well formed, visible text on pages that have lots of
inbound links from "real" websites.

Google is very up front about how most of their page indexing and
ranking protocols work:

http://www.google.com/webmasters/docs/search-engine-optimization-sta
rter-guide.pdf

:o)






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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Sun Sep 13 22:36:16 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:36:16 +0100
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>

Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even purchasing.


On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John <alfiej at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>Just saw these this morning:
>
>  https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>  https://puri.sm/
>
>Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic seems obvious,
>this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>
>Overall thoughts?
>
>Alfie
>
>-- 
>  Alfie John
>  alfiej at fastmail.fm
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Sep 14 08:06:43 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:06:43 -0700
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <20150914064938.GB2473@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
 <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150914064938.GB2473@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55F6E283.2060001@riseup.net>



On 09/13/2015 11:49 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:57:34PM -0400, John Young wrote:
>> Hofstadter Introduction and Chapter 1:
>>
>> https://cryptome.org/hofstadter-intro-chap-1.pdf
>>
>>
> The whole appears to be in Library Genesis in epub
> format AFAICT.
>
>

A search for the author's name turned up his other noted works:

Richard Hofstadter     Social Darwinism in American Thought, 1992

Richard Hofstadter     The Paranoid Style in American Politics: And
Other Essays, 1996


...and a book title search turned up nothing.

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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 05:37:45 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 08:37:45 -0400
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oshwm: Seems reasonable. It would be cool if consumers started valuing
privacy-oriented products, now the whole plot is lost once a company uses a
3rd party load balancer? Nice.

"Every hardware chip individually selected for being freedom-respecting"
Is that in the datasheet for each chip "no backdoors & 100% certified
vulnerability free"? Does an Intel chipset laptop manufactured in Shenzen
really count as 'thoughtful and freedom respecting'?

“Getting rid of the signature checking is an important step. While it
doesn’t give us free code for the firmware, it means that users will really
have control of the firmware once we get free code for it.” - Dr. Richard
M. Stallman

And without signature checks how will we prevent un-solicited BIOS
modification?

Securing their Trisquel derived distro?

RMS doesn't have 'robust against nation state attackers' on his platform
for GNU. They're still just trying to get people to comply with the license
& refer to it as 'gnu / linux'.

Don't mistake a 'FOSS' laptop for a 'Privacy Laptop' just because they
installed a switch for the webcam. The privacy stuff is just the work of
marketing.

-Travis

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even purchasing.
>
>
> On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John <alfiej at fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>> Just saw these this morning:
>>
>>   https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>>   https://puri.sm/
>>
>> Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic seems obvious,
>> this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>>
>> Overall thoughts?
>>
>> Alfie
>>
>>


-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 09:09:38 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:09:38 -0700
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com>

>> Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's free-er
than
>> almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning, and it even comes
>> with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
> If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
> *actually* marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.

Regardless of the way the marketing team is spinning things, they
supposedly have 3 firmware developers trying to make a difference.
Outside Bunnie Studios, I don't know of another OEM that is trying to
help with this niche market with new hardware (not including refurbished
Thinkpads). So I respect that effort. Not sure they'll fully succeed in
this model, but perhaps a few models later they will have some decent boxes.

It sounds like they have a source license to Intel's Firmware Support
Package (FSP), and are modifying it to disable some silicon/firmware
features. The results will still be closed-source.

Today, nearly all Intel systems are 100% closed-source firmware, via
IBVs (Phoenix, AMI, Insyde, and OEMs). Some AMD and ARM systems could
provide blob-free firmware. If used in conjunction with fully open
source OS/app stack, then you might be able to trust it.

Today, I don't see how you can trust any keys/certs in any of the
Trusted/Verified/Measured/etc boots, most of the solutions don't seem to
have any way for the owner/user to verify, eg, no CRL/OSCP keys. My
reading of NIST SP80-147's seems to imply that sysadmins need to be able
to verify things, but that doesn't seem viable today.

While Purism's marketing may be a bit overboard, I'm hopeful that
they're trying. Maybe their next model will use the new RISC-V Raven3
chip, with U-Boot Verified Boot, and ship with full source to
CPU/firmware/enclosure, firmware, OS, and apps. To get to that point,
we'll probably need to help them fund this current Intel model, to keep
Purism alive....

I am not sure why they they need to create yet-another privacy-centric
OS, PureOS, and focus on improving and using Qubes/TAILs/Trisqel/Mempo/etc.

They're apparently working on a Free Software fork of FSP. I wish this
was a shared effort with many more free software developers, perhaps
managed by FSF or Linux Foundation, not just a single OEM. More than one
Linux OEM could benefit from such an effort, most of them still use COTS
100% closed-source IBVs.

Can the current Intel-based solution get certified by the FSF
RespectYourFreedom program? I'm not sure.

Whatever happens with what they do to the FSP and Intel silicon, if the
result is less secure to attackers, that'll be an issue. Many who care
about personal freedom and detest blobs seem to ignore security. But
Purism cares about privacy and security, so they have to try and deal
with both issues. Disabling BootGuard in updated FSP may make it more
configurable, but less secure, it seems. Their web site has fancy
graphics and tables. I hope they create a list of FSP modifications so
we can see what security holes the system may have.

I like the kill switch. I'd go further: since many firmware attacks come
through suspend/resume, I'd rather just disable that at the HW/FW/OS
levels. I'd like to have a fully-lockable enclosure in a laptop, which
can cover exposed ports, with a good quality lock, in a metal enclosure.
Of course, it would't be able to make it through TSA customs, so
probably not commercially viable. :-(

If I worked there, I'd tone down the marketing a bit (they have blobs in
their firmware, and they're based on an Intel system, they'll never
satisfy some of their potential market), perhaps focus on hardware that
can be built with blob-free firmware for their next model. And I'd hire
LegbaCore to evaluate the hardware before they ship it, for security
issues. :-)

Looking forward to their next model!




From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 09:17:49 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:17:49 -0700
Subject: Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for linux/bsd
 0days?
In-Reply-To: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55F6F32D.7000409@gmail.com>

> Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for linux/bsd 0days?

If you haven't read this blog from Intel Advanced Threat Research team
(group that produces CHIPSEC tool) summarizing their UEFI malware:

http://www.intelsecurity.com/advanced-threat-research/blog.html

(This is more of a static web site, not a RSS/Atom-based blog site;
their next blog entry might overright this, save a copy of this article
before they post another blog.)

In the reviews I've seen, their stuff was Windows-centric.

You can dump your linux/BSD ROMs with CHIPSEC and search for Hacking
Team's malware presense in your ROMs using the same techniques listed in
above blog.

(I haven't paying attention to the archives of the Hacking Team stuff.
If anyone knows where the firmware volume binary used in the above
analysis is publicly hosted, please give me an URL. Thanks!)




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 13 23:49:38 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:49:38 +0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
 <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150914064938.GB2473@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:57:34PM -0400, John Young wrote:
> Hofstadter Introduction and Chapter 1:
> 
> https://cryptome.org/hofstadter-intro-chap-1.pdf
> 
>

The whole appears to be in Library Genesis in epub
format AFAICT.




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 08:32:58 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:32:58 -0400
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>

What does 'privacy respecting' even mean?

It's certainly a win for the FOSS crowd but FOSS isn't synonymous with
'Privacy and Security'.

If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
*actually* marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.

If someone on cpunks asks if it's a reasonable 'privacy laptop' and the
answer isn't a bet-your-life on it yes, then the response should be clearly
no, even if it's 'a nice *n*th step'.

-Travis

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Cathal Garvey <
cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> TBF, nobody's going to make that Privacy-Respecting laptop if people
> reject the "most privacy respecting laptop so far" for not being good
> enough. Because, we can keep moving the goalposts, here.
>
> Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's free-er than
> almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning, and it even comes
> with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
>
> I could ask for more, but bitching and rejecting the Librem because it's
> not-good-enough, and buying a laptop with NO respect for me on the basis
> that "I can just roll my own", continues to send the market the message
> that:
>
> 1) Free software doesn't sell
> 2) Privacy doesn't sell
>
> On 14/09/15 13:37, Travis Biehn wrote:
>
>> Oshwm: Seems reasonable. It would be cool if consumers started valuing
>> privacy-oriented products, now the whole plot is lost once a company
>> uses a 3rd party load balancer? Nice.
>>
>> "Every hardware chip individually selected for being freedom-respecting"
>> Is that in the datasheet for each chip "no backdoors & 100% certified
>> vulnerability free"? Does an Intel chipset laptop manufactured in
>> Shenzen really count as 'thoughtful and freedom respecting'?
>>
>> “Getting rid of the signature checking is an important step. While it
>> doesn’t give us free code for the firmware, it means that users will
>> really have control of the firmware once we get free code for it.” - Dr.
>> Richard M. Stallman
>>
>> And without signature checks how will we prevent un-solicited BIOS
>> modification?
>>
>> Securing their Trisquel derived distro?
>>
>> RMS doesn't have 'robust against nation state attackers' on his platform
>> for GNU. They're still just trying to get people to comply with the
>> license & refer to it as 'gnu / linux'.
>>
>> Don't mistake a 'FOSS' laptop for a 'Privacy Laptop' just because they
>> installed a switch for the webcam. The privacy stuff is just the work of
>> marketing.
>>
>> -Travis
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org
>> <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even
>>     purchasing.
>>
>>
>>     On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John <alfiej at fastmail.fm
>>     <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>>
>>         Just saw these this morning:
>>
>>            https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>>            https://puri.sm/
>>
>>         Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic seems
>> obvious,
>>         this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>>
>>         Overall thoughts?
>>
>>         Alfie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
>> <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
>> <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
>> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
>>
>
> --
> Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
>  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
>  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
> Twitter:  @onetruecathal
> Phone: +353876363185
> miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
> peerio.com: cathalgarvey
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 08:54:16 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:54:16 -0400
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55F6EB0A.8020009@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6EB0A.8020009@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zdQBnbdy1apYmcZ6NrDDjXOABQDYLVTO7f58EzgMR-cZA@mail.gmail.com>

Agree that 'open source software' may very well be a prerequisite. My point
being that a laptop put together to 'minimize blob use' is not necessarily
the same as one put together to respect privacy. Without some evidence to
the fact it should not be endorsed as such.

Can someone dig up the motherboard design documents, should Librem publish
them & the transparent process by which components were selected to
'respect liberty'?

-Travis

OT aside - If someone were to ask what laptop they should use for 'privacy'
I'd personally direct them to buy a chromebook with cash at a brick and
mortar, wipe & install Qubes (the pixel 2 has some outstanding specs) TAILS
and so on.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Cathal Garvey <
cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> Absolutely, yes; If you ask first for privacy, and there is a good option
> for privacy, then that's the correct answer.
>
> Privacy without free software is a total joke.
>
> Ergo, given a potentially spyware rich platform that *markets* itself as
> Private, as Google, Apple and Microsoft for example *all do*, or a free
> software platform which can be trivially and fairly-well rewritten to not
> be spyware-rich, you choose the latter.
>
> It follows that for a privacy respecting laptop, you must necessarily
> begin with a laptop that can, to some degree of certainty, be wiped clean
> and installed with trustworthy software.
>
> There are many options here; the FSF certify hardware that can be as
> blob-free as possible. There are also lots of pitfalls, because the Linux
> architecture in many places implicitly trusts the intentions of device
> firmwares; it's likely that memory checks aren't implemented well enough on
> so many layers that you can never be sure without literally CMOSing your
> own device control hardware.
>
> Given all these options and pitfalls, draw a "sanity line" somewhere and
> pick some hardware that lets you do modern stuff without torturously long
> waits. In that short-list, the Librem still ranks quite well, I feel.
>
> On 14/09/15 16:32, Travis Biehn wrote:
>
>> What does 'privacy respecting' even mean?
>>
>> It's certainly a win for the FOSS crowd but FOSS isn't synonymous with
>> 'Privacy and Security'.
>>
>> If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
>> /actually/ marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.
>>
>> If someone on cpunks asks if it's a reasonable 'privacy laptop' and the
>> answer isn't a bet-your-life on it yes, then the response should be
>> clearly no, even if it's 'a nice /n/th step'.
>>
>> -Travis
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Cathal Garvey
>> <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     TBF, nobody's going to make that Privacy-Respecting laptop if people
>>     reject the "most privacy respecting laptop so far" for not being
>>     good enough. Because, we can keep moving the goalposts, here.
>>
>>     Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's
>>     free-er than almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning,
>>     and it even comes with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
>>
>>     I could ask for more, but bitching and rejecting the Librem because
>>     it's not-good-enough, and buying a laptop with NO respect for me on
>>     the basis that "I can just roll my own", continues to send the
>>     market the message that:
>>
>>     1) Free software doesn't sell
>>     2) Privacy doesn't sell
>>
>>     On 14/09/15 13:37, Travis Biehn wrote:
>>
>>         Oshwm: Seems reasonable. It would be cool if consumers started
>>         valuing
>>         privacy-oriented products, now the whole plot is lost once a
>> company
>>         uses a 3rd party load balancer? Nice.
>>
>>         "Every hardware chip individually selected for being
>>         freedom-respecting"
>>         Is that in the datasheet for each chip "no backdoors & 100%
>>         certified
>>         vulnerability free"? Does an Intel chipset laptop manufactured in
>>         Shenzen really count as 'thoughtful and freedom respecting'?
>>
>>         “Getting rid of the signature checking is an important step.
>>         While it
>>         doesn’t give us free code for the firmware, it means that users
>> will
>>         really have control of the firmware once we get free code for
>>         it.” - Dr.
>>         Richard M. Stallman
>>
>>         And without signature checks how will we prevent un-solicited BIOS
>>         modification?
>>
>>         Securing their Trisquel derived distro?
>>
>>         RMS doesn't have 'robust against nation state attackers' on his
>>         platform
>>         for GNU. They're still just trying to get people to comply with
>> the
>>         license & refer to it as 'gnu / linux'.
>>
>>         Don't mistake a 'FOSS' laptop for a 'Privacy Laptop' just
>>         because they
>>         installed a switch for the webcam. The privacy stuff is just the
>>         work of
>>         marketing.
>>
>>         -Travis
>>
>>         On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org
>>         <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>
>>         <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>>>
>>         wrote:
>>
>>              Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even
>>              purchasing.
>>
>>
>>              On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John
>>         <alfiej at fastmail.fm <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>
>>              <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>                  Just saw these this morning:
>>
>>         https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>>         https://puri.sm/
>>
>>                  Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic
>>         seems obvious,
>>                  this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>>
>>                  Overall thoughts?
>>
>>                  Alfie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
>>         <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
>>         <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
>>         <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
>>         <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
>>
>>
>>     --
>>     Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
>>       Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
>>       Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
>>     Twitter:  @onetruecathal
>>     Phone: +353876363185 <tel:%2B353876363185>
>>     miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
>>     peerio.com <http://peerio.com>: cathalgarvey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
>> <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
>> <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
>> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
>>
>
> --
> Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
>  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
>  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
> Twitter:  @onetruecathal
> Phone: +353876363185
> miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
> peerio.com: cathalgarvey
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From alfiej at fastmail.fm  Sun Sep 13 19:11:12 2015
From: alfiej at fastmail.fm (Alfie John)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:11:12 +1000
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
Message-ID: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Just saw these this morning:

  https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
  https://puri.sm/

Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic seems obvious,
this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.

Overall thoughts?

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at fastmail.fm




From muntudebugger at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 02:37:40 2015
From: muntudebugger at gmail.com (Muntu Debugger)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 12:37:40 +0300
Subject: Cryptography beyond the 5 senses
Message-ID: <CAM2GhrAAuZKHB8qBMbSzS1g0uCuQ1TJBhMGi2Nj0r23ifj_+EA@mail.gmail.com>

Take on the challenge! can society be influenced with out the 5 senses?
dilligently study this; http://j.mp/Diplomat101   and give your take.

cheers

Muntu
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From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Sep 14 12:40:39 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:40:39 -0400
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55F6E283.2060001@riseup.net>
References: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
 <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150914064938.GB2473@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55F6E283.2060001@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <E1ZbZXs-0001Sn-Va@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The entire Hofstadter "The American Political Tradition"

https://cryptome.org/2015/09/hofstadter-american-political-tradition.pdf 
(420 pp, 35MB)


At 11:06 AM 9/14/2015, Razer wrote:


>On 09/13/2015 11:49 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:57:34PM -0400, John Young wrote:
> >> Hofstadter Introduction and Chapter 1:
> >>
> >> https://cryptome.org/hofstadter-intro-chap-1.pdf
> >>
> >>
> > The whole appears to be in Library Genesis in epub
> > format AFAICT.
> >
> >
>
>A search for the author's name turned up his other noted works:
>
>Richard Hofstadter     Social Darwinism in American Thought, 1992
>
>Richard Hofstadter     The Paranoid Style in American Politics: And
>Other Essays, 1996
>
>
>...and a book title search turned up nothing.
>
>





From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 15:51:47 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:51:47 -0700
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com> <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <55F74F83.3060401@gmail.com>

On 09/14/2015 10:29 AM, oshwm wrote:
> Maybe manufacturers aren't sure what they should be building in order to
> genuinely and honestly be able to market as 'Respects Your Privacy'.
> It sounds simple but when you look at the ultimate level of privacy
> protection then you are talking about open source hardware, software and
> manufacturing processes and proper auditing of all of these.
> For a company to manufacture and market a device under these conditions
> is likely to be hideously expensive and have a very small customer base
> who are willing to pay such a large price in cash terms.
> What might be a good idea is for a community such as this one to create
> some sort of scale which describes the methods, materials and processes
> to achieve some sort of scoring which would range from 'NSA Spying
> Device' (0 out of 10) to 'Complete Privacy Protection' (10 out of 10).
> This would then allow manufacturers to work to a specific score and
> advertise as such.

I agree, the FSF RSF program could do more to work OEMs/IHVs and get the
message out about their program. But while GPL/GNU platform is nice, RMS
doesn't seem to care for Open Source Hardware, just Free Software, so
I'm not sure FSF RSF program can be the only source of guidance for
OEMs/IHVs. FSF has nearly no specific OEM/IHV advice for "Free
Hardware". Except to make it GPLv3. It seems to me that OSHWA doesn't
seem to focus on firmware, nor -- it seems to me -- much for business
systems. The other open hardware group also doesn't seem to doing much
in this area.  Today, the main org focusing on 'open hardware' for
enterprise systems appears to be Open Compute Project, which is
currently a UEFI-centric project. No citizen-centric,
privacy+security-centric profile in OCP.

I agree, FOSS OS vendors -- Linux Foundation, FreeBSD Foundation, etc.
-- should offer some advise to OEMs/IHVs/IBVs as to how to build a
decent Linux/BSD-friendly BIOS. Including things like "declarative
ACPI",  eg, no WBPT tables with Windows binaries in them, other
Windows-centric ACPI tables that Linux/BSD doesn't use. The other day on
a linaro or edk2 list, some engineers from Red Hat were talking about
their decision for what to do with ACPI for Linux for a particular
table. This should be thought out for all modern ACPI tables. As well as
SecureBoot OS defaults and MSFT keys, and use of coreboot or U-Boot
instead of UEFI, in some cases.

A list of ARM and Intel and AMD features that can be removed or
opted-out or not added, or not enabled, and what privacy/freedom and
security case does it help/hinder would be nice.

Requiring vendors to provide a changelog, list of all
modules/payloads/drivers embedded in firmware image, along with OSCP/CRL
URLs for signed code verification.

Right now, most people don't know what features their firmware has.
Pre-sales data technical data from OEMs/IHVs is terrible w/r/t firmware,
they only cover hardware and software.  What tools to include or not
include in silicon/firmware, like Absolute.com's Persistence, or remote
management software (including IPMI, Redfish, DASH/SMASH, etc.)

Re: classifications, for UEFI, there already are 3 classes of systems,
BIOS-only, hybid BIOS/UEFI, and UEFI-only.  UEFI aside, there is TCG
Measured Boot, Trused Boot, Solaris Verified Boot, Android Verified
Boot, Chrome Verified Boot (Class A and Class B), U-Boot Verified Boot,
and other security technologies. It would be nice to have some crypto
research comparing the strengths of all modern
secure/verified/trusted/measured/etc flavors of boots. And given how
crypto is core to trust in most of these, some don't enable any way for
user to verify trust, no CRL/OSCP URLs. We have to 'trust' that the
firmware's  CAs are not behaving like Diginotar. One consumer feature
should be the ability to test all keys for validity.

There are 3 NIST docs for BIOS recommendations for OEMS/IHVs/IBVs/OSVs
for BIOS security: NIST SP800-147, SP800-147b, and SP800-155. NIST
guidelines are rather abstract, no pragmatic best practices. The 147
Provisioning stage is something that, as I read the spec, is probably
not something that most OEM systems today, especially not the 'golden
master' extra level of security, which requires -- as I understand it --
full source to your firmware.

There is also CommonCriteria/NSA/IAP BIOS Update Protection Profile
(which no vendors meet, AFAIK). Nice read for BIOS attack model
perspective. <http://www.niap-ccevs.org/pp/pp.cfm>

None of the NIST/NSA docs refer to Intel CHIPSEC. UEFI Forum recommends
Intel UEFI OEMs run CHIPSEC to test their systems for security. Hard to
believe any enterprise sysadmins are following NIST firmware platform
lifecycle model, if they don't know what tools to use. :-)

Intel CHIPSEC only works on Intel systems, not x86 clones (AMD, etc.),
so no similar firmware security tools for other systems. Linaro may port
CHIPSEC to AArch64, they expressed an interest a few months ago, but
nothing since then. And no interest, apparently, in AArch32. If no port,
what other firmware vulnerability assessment tools are there? Intel
CHIPSEC only works on new systems, no tests for older Intel systems. No
CHIPSEC for Itanium, either. :-) Without tools that check for the latest
vulnerabilities (i.e., the ones that security researchers talked about
at last years' DEF CON), the systems won't be built securely.

I presume we need more help from FSF, Linux Foundation, OSHWA, and other
related orgs, to direct and concentrate 'crowd funding' for efforts to
build new Free/Open Hardware (FOHW), like Bunnie has started doing. RMS
blessed CrowdSupply as the official source of crowd funding. A baseband
chip -- or some SDR equivalent -- for phones would be nice; IMO,
OSMOCOMBB isn't progressing fast enough.

For years, OEMs/IHVs got a lot of input from Microsoft. For each new OS
release, MS had a spec for that year's Windows Desktop/Laptop PC and for
the Windows Server PC. FOSS OS vendors, or other communities-of-interest
(like privacy-centric cypherpunks) don't give OEMs/IHVs any advice. The
Windows Hardware logo, and ability to license/sell Windows, is a great
set of carrots. FOSS is free, so no license deals, but community could
include a logo program with the guidelines. I'm not aware of much
non-Windows advise to OEMs/IHVs like this, besides a few Linux
Foundation programs (Carrier Grade Linux, etc.). And none that are
updated each year with current hardware/bus/peripheral trends and
updates defaults for memory or other new advise from last year (like VM
advise after this year's DEF CON).

Perhaps an annual award for vendors, to help motivate them, best and
worst award. Bunnie wins and Lenovo loses this year, maybe Purism wins
next year. As an example, the privacy-centric Italian-based group the
"Winston Smith Project" has an annual award for best misuse of privacy
by a vendor.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 14 08:15:13 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:15:13 +0100
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>

TBF, nobody's going to make that Privacy-Respecting laptop if people 
reject the "most privacy respecting laptop so far" for not being good 
enough. Because, we can keep moving the goalposts, here.

Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's free-er 
than almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning, and it even 
comes with a hardware switch for some key sensors.

I could ask for more, but bitching and rejecting the Librem because it's 
not-good-enough, and buying a laptop with NO respect for me on the basis 
that "I can just roll my own", continues to send the market the message 
that:

1) Free software doesn't sell
2) Privacy doesn't sell

On 14/09/15 13:37, Travis Biehn wrote:
> Oshwm: Seems reasonable. It would be cool if consumers started valuing
> privacy-oriented products, now the whole plot is lost once a company
> uses a 3rd party load balancer? Nice.
>
> "Every hardware chip individually selected for being freedom-respecting"
> Is that in the datasheet for each chip "no backdoors & 100% certified
> vulnerability free"? Does an Intel chipset laptop manufactured in
> Shenzen really count as 'thoughtful and freedom respecting'?
>
> “Getting rid of the signature checking is an important step. While it
> doesn’t give us free code for the firmware, it means that users will
> really have control of the firmware once we get free code for it.” - Dr.
> Richard M. Stallman
>
> And without signature checks how will we prevent un-solicited BIOS
> modification?
>
> Securing their Trisquel derived distro?
>
> RMS doesn't have 'robust against nation state attackers' on his platform
> for GNU. They're still just trying to get people to comply with the
> license & refer to it as 'gnu / linux'.
>
> Don't mistake a 'FOSS' laptop for a 'Privacy Laptop' just because they
> installed a switch for the webcam. The privacy stuff is just the work of
> marketing.
>
> -Travis
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org
> <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>> wrote:
>
>     Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even
>     purchasing.
>
>
>     On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John <alfiej at fastmail.fm
>     <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>> wrote:
>
>         Just saw these this morning:
>
>            https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>            https://puri.sm/
>
>         Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic seems obvious,
>         this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>
>         Overall thoughts?
>
>         Alfie
>
>
>
>
> --
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
> <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
> <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>

-- 
Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: cathalgarvey




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 14 08:43:06 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:43:06 +0100
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F6EB0A.8020009@cathalgarvey.me>

Absolutely, yes; If you ask first for privacy, and there is a good 
option for privacy, then that's the correct answer.

Privacy without free software is a total joke.

Ergo, given a potentially spyware rich platform that *markets* itself as 
Private, as Google, Apple and Microsoft for example *all do*, or a free 
software platform which can be trivially and fairly-well rewritten to 
not be spyware-rich, you choose the latter.

It follows that for a privacy respecting laptop, you must necessarily 
begin with a laptop that can, to some degree of certainty, be wiped 
clean and installed with trustworthy software.

There are many options here; the FSF certify hardware that can be as 
blob-free as possible. There are also lots of pitfalls, because the 
Linux architecture in many places implicitly trusts the intentions of 
device firmwares; it's likely that memory checks aren't implemented well 
enough on so many layers that you can never be sure without literally 
CMOSing your own device control hardware.

Given all these options and pitfalls, draw a "sanity line" somewhere and 
pick some hardware that lets you do modern stuff without torturously 
long waits. In that short-list, the Librem still ranks quite well, I feel.

On 14/09/15 16:32, Travis Biehn wrote:
> What does 'privacy respecting' even mean?
>
> It's certainly a win for the FOSS crowd but FOSS isn't synonymous with
> 'Privacy and Security'.
>
> If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
> /actually/ marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.
>
> If someone on cpunks asks if it's a reasonable 'privacy laptop' and the
> answer isn't a bet-your-life on it yes, then the response should be
> clearly no, even if it's 'a nice /n/th step'.
>
> -Travis
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Cathal Garvey
> <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>> wrote:
>
>     TBF, nobody's going to make that Privacy-Respecting laptop if people
>     reject the "most privacy respecting laptop so far" for not being
>     good enough. Because, we can keep moving the goalposts, here.
>
>     Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's
>     free-er than almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning,
>     and it even comes with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
>
>     I could ask for more, but bitching and rejecting the Librem because
>     it's not-good-enough, and buying a laptop with NO respect for me on
>     the basis that "I can just roll my own", continues to send the
>     market the message that:
>
>     1) Free software doesn't sell
>     2) Privacy doesn't sell
>
>     On 14/09/15 13:37, Travis Biehn wrote:
>
>         Oshwm: Seems reasonable. It would be cool if consumers started
>         valuing
>         privacy-oriented products, now the whole plot is lost once a company
>         uses a 3rd party load balancer? Nice.
>
>         "Every hardware chip individually selected for being
>         freedom-respecting"
>         Is that in the datasheet for each chip "no backdoors & 100%
>         certified
>         vulnerability free"? Does an Intel chipset laptop manufactured in
>         Shenzen really count as 'thoughtful and freedom respecting'?
>
>         “Getting rid of the signature checking is an important step.
>         While it
>         doesn’t give us free code for the firmware, it means that users will
>         really have control of the firmware once we get free code for
>         it.” - Dr.
>         Richard M. Stallman
>
>         And without signature checks how will we prevent un-solicited BIOS
>         modification?
>
>         Securing their Trisquel derived distro?
>
>         RMS doesn't have 'robust against nation state attackers' on his
>         platform
>         for GNU. They're still just trying to get people to comply with the
>         license & refer to it as 'gnu / linux'.
>
>         Don't mistake a 'FOSS' laptop for a 'Privacy Laptop' just
>         because they
>         installed a switch for the webcam. The privacy stuff is just the
>         work of
>         marketing.
>
>         -Travis
>
>         On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org
>         <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>
>         <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org <mailto:oshwm at openmailbox.org>>>
>         wrote:
>
>              Links go via cloudflare so privacy already abused before even
>              purchasing.
>
>
>              On 14 September 2015 03:11:12 BST, Alfie John
>         <alfiej at fastmail.fm <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>
>              <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm <mailto:alfiej at fastmail.fm>>> wrote:
>
>                  Just saw these this morning:
>
>         https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism
>         https://puri.sm/
>
>                  Although a physical switch to kill the webcam and mic
>         seems obvious,
>                  this is the first laptop I've seen with them built in.
>
>                  Overall thoughts?
>
>                  Alfie
>
>
>
>
>         --
>         Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
>         <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
>         <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
>         <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
>         <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
>
>
>     --
>     Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
>       Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
>       Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
>     Twitter:  @onetruecathal
>     Phone: +353876363185 <tel:%2B353876363185>
>     miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
>     peerio.com <http://peerio.com>: cathalgarvey
>
>
>
>
> --
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub
> <http://github.com/tbiehn> | TravisBiehn.com
> <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>

-- 
Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: cathalgarvey




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 14 09:05:03 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:05:03 +0200
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f5f197.66168c0a.ad40f.5880@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net> <55f5f197.66168c0a.ad40f.5880@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3039361.NNeJKgMHYJ@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 19:03:07 Juan pisze:
> > Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv shows no
> > trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser, or something
> > related...
> 
> 	Yes, there's something wrong here, my bad. https://mega.nz
> 	doesn't load either (investigating...)

Try the Tor Browser. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Mon Sep 14 10:29:07 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:29:07 +0100
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>

Maybe manufacturers aren't sure what they should be building in order to
genuinely and honestly be able to market as 'Respects Your Privacy'.
It sounds simple but when you look at the ultimate level of privacy
protection then you are talking about open source hardware, software and
manufacturing processes and proper auditing of all of these.
For a company to manufacture and market a device under these conditions
is likely to be hideously expensive and have a very small customer base
who are willing to pay such a large price in cash terms.
What might be a good idea is for a community such as this one to create
some sort of scale which describes the methods, materials and processes
to achieve some sort of scoring which would range from 'NSA Spying
Device' (0 out of 10) to 'Complete Privacy Protection' (10 out of 10).
This would then allow manufacturers to work to a specific score and
advertise as such.

cheers,
oshwm.

On 14/09/15 17:09, Blibbet wrote:
>>> Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's free-er
> than
>>> almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning, and it even comes
>>> with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
>> If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
>> *actually* marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.
> Regardless of the way the marketing team is spinning things, they
> supposedly have 3 firmware developers trying to make a difference.
> Outside Bunnie Studios, I don't know of another OEM that is trying to
> help with this niche market with new hardware (not including refurbished
> Thinkpads). So I respect that effort. Not sure they'll fully succeed in
> this model, but perhaps a few models later they will have some decent boxes.
>
> It sounds like they have a source license to Intel's Firmware Support
> Package (FSP), and are modifying it to disable some silicon/firmware
> features. The results will still be closed-source.
>
> Today, nearly all Intel systems are 100% closed-source firmware, via
> IBVs (Phoenix, AMI, Insyde, and OEMs). Some AMD and ARM systems could
> provide blob-free firmware. If used in conjunction with fully open
> source OS/app stack, then you might be able to trust it.
>
> Today, I don't see how you can trust any keys/certs in any of the
> Trusted/Verified/Measured/etc boots, most of the solutions don't seem to
> have any way for the owner/user to verify, eg, no CRL/OSCP keys. My
> reading of NIST SP80-147's seems to imply that sysadmins need to be able
> to verify things, but that doesn't seem viable today.
>
> While Purism's marketing may be a bit overboard, I'm hopeful that
> they're trying. Maybe their next model will use the new RISC-V Raven3
> chip, with U-Boot Verified Boot, and ship with full source to
> CPU/firmware/enclosure, firmware, OS, and apps. To get to that point,
> we'll probably need to help them fund this current Intel model, to keep
> Purism alive....
>
> I am not sure why they they need to create yet-another privacy-centric
> OS, PureOS, and focus on improving and using Qubes/TAILs/Trisqel/Mempo/etc.
>
> They're apparently working on a Free Software fork of FSP. I wish this
> was a shared effort with many more free software developers, perhaps
> managed by FSF or Linux Foundation, not just a single OEM. More than one
> Linux OEM could benefit from such an effort, most of them still use COTS
> 100% closed-source IBVs.
>
> Can the current Intel-based solution get certified by the FSF
> RespectYourFreedom program? I'm not sure.
>
> Whatever happens with what they do to the FSP and Intel silicon, if the
> result is less secure to attackers, that'll be an issue. Many who care
> about personal freedom and detest blobs seem to ignore security. But
> Purism cares about privacy and security, so they have to try and deal
> with both issues. Disabling BootGuard in updated FSP may make it more
> configurable, but less secure, it seems. Their web site has fancy
> graphics and tables. I hope they create a list of FSP modifications so
> we can see what security holes the system may have.
>
> I like the kill switch. I'd go further: since many firmware attacks come
> through suspend/resume, I'd rather just disable that at the HW/FW/OS
> levels. I'd like to have a fully-lockable enclosure in a laptop, which
> can cover exposed ports, with a good quality lock, in a metal enclosure.
> Of course, it would't be able to make it through TSA customs, so
> probably not commercially viable. :-(
>
> If I worked there, I'd tone down the marketing a bit (they have blobs in
> their firmware, and they're based on an Intel system, they'll never
> satisfy some of their potential market), perhaps focus on hardware that
> can be built with blob-free firmware for their next model. And I'd hire
> LegbaCore to evaluate the hardware before they ship it, for security
> issues. :-)
>
> Looking forward to their next model!
>


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Sep 14 12:41:49 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:41:49 +0000
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <E1ZbZXs-0001Sn-Va@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <3923616.0r0mpAI9Mp@lapuntu>
 <CAOsGNSThbQGuNuQ1Y0KNj2pbj38CKaB91h9WHW8zBRtTiuJgew@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150910114126.GC2695@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55f1e097.d4668c0a.7be27.29b4@mx.google.com>
 <CAOsGNSSogChTW+KBCU4zuUPqmk+y=e1RBzmURmiD1qCf3TeKWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55f3bb8e.4b1c8d0a.90f36.ffff8cf5@mx.google.com>
 <55F44314.3080807@riseup.net>
 <55f48f27.4521370a.d43e0.ffffdab9@mx.google.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
 <E1ZbBSy-0002Qm-4N@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150914064938.GB2473@sivokote.iziade.m$> <55F6E283.2060001@riseup.net>
 <E1ZbZXs-0001Sn-Va@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <55F722FD.4070702@riseup.net>

Thanks!

On 09/14/2015 07:40 PM, John Young wrote:
> The entire Hofstadter "The American Political Tradition"
>
> https://cryptome.org/2015/09/hofstadter-american-political-tradition.pdf
> (420 pp, 35MB)
>
>
> At 11:06 AM 9/14/2015, Razer wrote:
>
>
>> On 09/13/2015 11:49 PM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
>> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 01:57:34PM -0400, John Young wrote:
>> >> Hofstadter Introduction and Chapter 1:
>> >>
>> >> https://cryptome.org/hofstadter-intro-chap-1.pdf
>> >>
>> >>
>> > The whole appears to be in Library Genesis in epub
>> > format AFAICT.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> A search for the author's name turned up his other noted works:
>>
>> Richard Hofstadter     Social Darwinism in American Thought, 1992
>>
>> Richard Hofstadter     The Paranoid Style in American Politics: And
>> Other Essays, 1996
>>
>>
>> ...and a book title search turned up nothing.
>>
>>
>
>
>


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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 16:10:17 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 20:10:17 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <3039361.NNeJKgMHYJ@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F5B40C.5060801@riseup.net>
 <55f5f197.66168c0a.ad40f.5880@mx.google.com>
 <3039361.NNeJKgMHYJ@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55f752d0.caef8c0a.b7285.0c65@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:05:03 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 19:03:07 Juan pisze:
> > > Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv
> > > shows no trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser,
> > > or something related...
> > 
> > 	Yes, there's something wrong here, my bad. https://mega.nz
> > 	doesn't load either (investigating...)
> 
> Try the Tor Browser. :)
> 

	I tried it. With js enabled globally. Same thing. A bunch of
	different circuits. None works. Pretty weird.








From jahlove at riseup.net  Mon Sep 14 16:18:55 2015
From: jahlove at riseup.net (Jah Love)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 23:18:55 +0000
Subject: Libreboot+Tails creates the best current balance of freedom &
 privacy on a Laptop [was Re: Privacy Respecting Laptops]
In-Reply-To: <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com> <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20150914231855.7dfc3cd1@riseup.net>

I think that the best privacy respecting laptop around would be a Libreboot computer that has the camera, microphone, and harddrive physically removed and runs Tails on a DVD so that neither the operating system nor the BIOS can be altered without physical access to the computer. The version of Libreboot on the laptop must be write protected, which would mean that updates would need to be externally flashed to the BIOS chip, but this prevents any attempted BIOS alteration from happening via software. Tamper proof stickers or glitter nailpolish could be applied to detect whether the device has been opened while out of your possession. There's no way to flash the Bios chip without opening the device. Preferences and files that the user wants to keep across amnesiac sessions would be saved on a LUKS encrypted USB thumb-drive.

Libreboot will soon have reproducible builds which would allow users to compare the Libreboot ROM on their device against the reproducible build of the ROM.

I would suggest that all Libreboot supported motherboards should be x-rayed and the x-rays should be published online under creative commons licenses so that users could have their own motherboards x-rayed to provide some sort of hardware verifiability which is currently very much lacking.

Here's more info about Libreboot, which is a Coreboot fork that takes out all of Coreboot's proprietary blobs: http://libreboot.org/faq/

Here's the Free Software Foundation's announcement that the Libreboot x200 earned their Respect Your Freedom certification https://www.fsf.org/news/libreboot-x200-laptop-now-fsf-certified-to-respect-your-freedom

Laptops that run Libreboot with operating systems that don't comply with the GNU Free System Distribution Guidelines (GNU FSDG) https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html don't have FSF's RYF certification. https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom

So until Tails creates a version that complies with the GNU FSDG or until someone creates an operating system forked of a Free Distro https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html that has all of Tails' security features included we are all stuck with having to chose between security and freedom in our operating systems. We can code our way out of this false dichotomy though, if we want it.

https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/5393
https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2015-June/009023.html
https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2015-June/009024.html

If you believe that the security features in Tails aren't worth the trade off of having fully free software or if you believe that Tails running as a DVD instead of a USB stick isn't necessary, it is important to also note that Libreboot's GRUB payload allows you to boot fully encrypted harddrives and USB live systems by decrypting them within the GRUB instance on your Bios chip and then booting the decrypted OS. This means that the boot sector on the operating system or USB live system can now also be fully encrypted when not in use.

Does anyone on this list think that Librem+PureOS is more free & secure than Libreboot+Tails as I described it here?

Peace & Blessings,
Jah Love

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:29:07 +0100
oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> Maybe manufacturers aren't sure what they should be building in order to
> genuinely and honestly be able to market as 'Respects Your Privacy'.
> It sounds simple but when you look at the ultimate level of privacy
> protection then you are talking about open source hardware, software and
> manufacturing processes and proper auditing of all of these.
> For a company to manufacture and market a device under these conditions
> is likely to be hideously expensive and have a very small customer base
> who are willing to pay such a large price in cash terms.
> What might be a good idea is for a community such as this one to create
> some sort of scale which describes the methods, materials and processes
> to achieve some sort of scoring which would range from 'NSA Spying
> Device' (0 out of 10) to 'Complete Privacy Protection' (10 out of 10).
> This would then allow manufacturers to work to a specific score and
> advertise as such.
> 
> cheers,
> oshwm.
> 
> On 14/09/15 17:09, Blibbet wrote:
> >>> Librem isn't perfect, and its BIOS isn't fully free. But it's free-er
> > than
> >>> almost any other laptop being sold that's worth owning, and it even comes
> >>> with a hardware switch for some key sensors.
> >> If a product markets itself as 'privacy respecting' (is the Librem
> >> *actually* marketed this way) then it had better back up it's claims.
> > Regardless of the way the marketing team is spinning things, they
> > supposedly have 3 firmware developers trying to make a difference.
> > Outside Bunnie Studios, I don't know of another OEM that is trying to
> > help with this niche market with new hardware (not including refurbished
> > Thinkpads). So I respect that effort. Not sure they'll fully succeed in
> > this model, but perhaps a few models later they will have some decent boxes.
> >
> > It sounds like they have a source license to Intel's Firmware Support
> > Package (FSP), and are modifying it to disable some silicon/firmware
> > features. The results will still be closed-source.
> >
> > Today, nearly all Intel systems are 100% closed-source firmware, via
> > IBVs (Phoenix, AMI, Insyde, and OEMs). Some AMD and ARM systems could
> > provide blob-free firmware. If used in conjunction with fully open
> > source OS/app stack, then you might be able to trust it.
> >
> > Today, I don't see how you can trust any keys/certs in any of the
> > Trusted/Verified/Measured/etc boots, most of the solutions don't seem to
> > have any way for the owner/user to verify, eg, no CRL/OSCP keys. My
> > reading of NIST SP80-147's seems to imply that sysadmins need to be able
> > to verify things, but that doesn't seem viable today.
> >
> > While Purism's marketing may be a bit overboard, I'm hopeful that
> > they're trying. Maybe their next model will use the new RISC-V Raven3
> > chip, with U-Boot Verified Boot, and ship with full source to
> > CPU/firmware/enclosure, firmware, OS, and apps. To get to that point,
> > we'll probably need to help them fund this current Intel model, to keep
> > Purism alive....
> >
> > I am not sure why they they need to create yet-another privacy-centric
> > OS, PureOS, and focus on improving and using Qubes/TAILs/Trisqel/Mempo/etc.
> >
> > They're apparently working on a Free Software fork of FSP. I wish this
> > was a shared effort with many more free software developers, perhaps
> > managed by FSF or Linux Foundation, not just a single OEM. More than one
> > Linux OEM could benefit from such an effort, most of them still use COTS
> > 100% closed-source IBVs.
> >
> > Can the current Intel-based solution get certified by the FSF
> > RespectYourFreedom program? I'm not sure.
> >
> > Whatever happens with what they do to the FSP and Intel silicon, if the
> > result is less secure to attackers, that'll be an issue. Many who care
> > about personal freedom and detest blobs seem to ignore security. But
> > Purism cares about privacy and security, so they have to try and deal
> > with both issues. Disabling BootGuard in updated FSP may make it more
> > configurable, but less secure, it seems. Their web site has fancy
> > graphics and tables. I hope they create a list of FSP modifications so
> > we can see what security holes the system may have.
> >
> > I like the kill switch. I'd go further: since many firmware attacks come
> > through suspend/resume, I'd rather just disable that at the HW/FW/OS
> > levels. I'd like to have a fully-lockable enclosure in a laptop, which
> > can cover exposed ports, with a good quality lock, in a metal enclosure.
> > Of course, it would't be able to make it through TSA customs, so
> > probably not commercially viable. :-(
> >
> > If I worked there, I'd tone down the marketing a bit (they have blobs in
> > their firmware, and they're based on an Intel system, they'll never
> > satisfy some of their potential market), perhaps focus on hardware that
> > can be built with blob-free firmware for their next model. And I'd hire
> > LegbaCore to evaluate the hardware before they ship it, for security
> > issues. :-)
> >
> > Looking forward to their next model!
> >
> 
> 




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 14 22:24:28 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 08:24:28 +0300
Subject: Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for
 linux/bsd 0days?
In-Reply-To: <55F6F32D.7000409@gmail.com>
References: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55F6F32D.7000409@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150915052428.GA2679@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 09:17:49AM -0700, Blibbet wrote:
> (I haven't paying attention to the archives of the Hacking Team stuff.
> If anyone knows where the firmware volume binary used in the above
> analysis is publicly hosted, please give me an URL. Thanks!)


Maybe the links here are related:

http://leaksource.info/category/hacking-team/

Some signing? certs in windoze format:
https://github.com/hackedteam/GeoTrust




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 14 23:39:40 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 09:39:40 +0300
Subject: Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for
 linux/bsd 0days?
In-Reply-To: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150911071054.GA2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150915063940.GB2679@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 10:10:54AM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> Has someone examined the leaked Hacking Team stuff for linux/bsd 0days?
>

https://wikileaks.org/hackingteam/emails/emailid/45441

Fwd: Assets Portfolio Update: 2014-10-06

Assets_Portfolio.pdf.zip

From: Dustin D. Trammell <dtrammell at vulnbroker.com>


In today's portfolio update we have the following: 14-006 is a new
memory corruption vulnerability in Oracle Solaris SunSSHD yielding
remote privileged command execution as the root user. The provided
exploit is a modified OpenSSH client making exploitation of this
vulnerability very convenient.





From john at johnlgrubbs.net  Tue Sep 15 10:55:57 2015
From: john at johnlgrubbs.net (Me)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 12:55:57 -0500
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3B4A3-ADB1-4E9D-855F-52E2DFF1FC2A@johnlgrubbs.net>

iirc set your WiFi router to bridge mode and tell it the ssid of the mesh network and your done.

On September 15, 2015 12:21:10 PM CDT, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to
>communicate in a mesh net?  (Or, at least differently than it may have
>been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi routers
>(www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that the vast majority
>of routers are physically close to many other routers, certainly close
>enough to communicate with each other, and ultimately over a long
>distance.  A crowd-sourced communication system, one that wouldn't
>necessarily go through the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to
>the Bittorrent system.    I just  found this:
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct
>
>            Jim Bell
>
>From that URL:
>
>"Wi-Fi Direct, initially called Wi-Fi P2P, is a Wi-Fi standard enabling
>devices to easily connect with each other without requiring a wireless
>access point.[1] It is usable for everything from internet browsing to
>file transfer,[2][3] and to communicate with more than one device
>simultaneously at typical Wi-Fi speeds.[4] One advantage of Wi-Fi
>Direct is the ability to connect devices even if they are from
>different manufacturers. Only one of the Wi-Fi devices needs to be
>compliant with Wi-Fi Direct to establish a peer-to-peer connection that
>transfers data directly between them with greatly reduced
>setup.[citation needed]
>Wi-Fi Direct negotiates the link with a Wi-Fi Protected Setup system
>that assigns each device a limited wireless access point. The "pairing"
>of Wi-Fi Direct devices can be set up to require the proximity of
>a near field communication, a Bluetooth signal, or a button press on
>one or all the devices. Wi-Fi Direct may not only replace the need
>for routers, but may also replace the need of Bluetooth for
>applications that do not rely on low energy.[5]"

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 15 03:23:32 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:23:32 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150915102332.GC2679@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard to 
> defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly a 
> real threat?
> 
> [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
>

Dude, trolling with numbers borders with numerology
{AKA "number theory" ;) }.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11863246/Refugee-crisis-EU-ministers-Germany-border-control-Austria-army-live.html

---
Refugee crisis: Europe's borders unravelling as Austria and Slovakia
impose frontier controls
Germany's vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel warns the country could receive
up to one million people seeking refugee status. Follow latest
developments here 
---


UP TO ONE MEEELLION :P




From mezger.benjamin at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 10:19:43 2015
From: mezger.benjamin at gmail.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 14:19:43 -0300
Subject: More neighbours make more fences [Economist]
Message-ID: <m2r3lztxao.fsf@gmail.com>

Oh the irony ;-)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart-10?

Hey cpunks, what year are we? - 1940 for sure. 

--
Sent with my mu4e
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From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Sep 15 12:04:36 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 15:04:36 -0400
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Keys Compromised
Message-ID: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

15 September 2015

I have learned today that all PGP public keys of John Young
<jya at pipeline.com> and Cryptome <cryptome at earthlink.net> have been
compromised.
The keys have been revoked today.

Two new keys have been generated today:

John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com> 0xD87D436C
Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> 0x8CD47BD5

This message is signed by the first.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build 3017)

wsFVAwUBVfhrXUkY+k7YfUNsAQgyeQ/+PA604lj8ZrZq9qnRMsbA86DdGPUyrdub
IWlQSpp5wyMMQG4VegjG7iwXBt6GftKQFLKuW527wGxaxIBJj1n2GhCMkn7mko1s
u107yQ5WVfJUTOHgazi2viuw8v3ixmJ/GcdvEeGCL23ErgGwvI6+JilmkP7vonmu
73ckavqrs6VvUJjjwzoIbgvXxsp+oqKT5EgZqfroQOaaz3e4AjipxwMav2VMqVTl
xZdHlp/QGab8Cet17NnDsNmN38YWT5t4pU1tL+0aN9jf7Vy+Jzx5g8nMk0e7ogzz
vg8ioWs3EkxJbjQaWK5/COjoYLjIZn6H5zUJgIBRtqsnbfNUcQisCNbwx1fNRGwq
DItG/jeHp65q6eDxFVWGkptDuZKUH4fGuiiRMxIySrj1CA1+9M5Q+m2TxnL/SFNU
AIfupcGWhtXXa1ZN70LT3fnIu9y9B5mQLSshn14eekD3t0nb+OkL+XEC0nJqnfVD
xOOqAjHQj1ytEfHSKb+i+/tHTCCTOKeaHM3JGE6qIawrn+aRfKsnGK9t+JiVEtyx
1d+L0gHwtcUd5MWQJdCMHoM10ri5cgx0A6su+lYnLgOcXYD3uHSVIdp1cSf3Wzwb
3MrO2BqqhL5y1Ip3Cfv+h+eXaZWWMr5w97kjSOYD/lwb61iA1tpWLkgiuUGBGrFb
32VkU7sMt4E=
=Q9BO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Sep 15 15:50:12 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 15:50:12 -0700
Subject: [Cryptography] [cryptography] JYA and Cryptome Keys Compromised
In-Reply-To: <E1Zbyop-0003ot-Vx@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.20.1509151555380.22849@bofh.nohats.ca>
 <E1Zbyop-0003ot-Vx@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <55F8A0A4.6090308@riseup.net>

Found jya's new key @sks

http://sks.pkqs.net/pks/lookup?search=jya%40pipeline.com&fingerprint=on&op=index&exact=off

On 09/15/2015 03:39 PM, John Young wrote:
> Correct analysis. First was get out a prompt notice to wave off users,
> then proceed with other authentications. Toughest problem is how to
> avoid another compromise of new keys since so many ways to do
> that have arisen and/or suspected over the life of PGP and other
> systems. WoT is problematic too, as are key signing parties, and
> so on. Other systems claim to be better, and we are using some of
> them, waiting and watching and suspecting are the lessons learned
> from stalwart testbed PGP in all its guises and disguises.
>
> We likely would not have discovered the compromises if not for
> those lessons.
>
> Nor do we mind starting from scratch, perhaps a bit more often
> than 11 years. Tornados do happen out side alleys of easy
> prediction (this is not a cyphersec sales motto).
>
> At 04:22 PM 9/15/2015, Paul Wouters wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015, John Young wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED
>> MESSAGE----- by unknown key. > I have learned today that all PGP
>> public keys of John Young > <jya at pipeline.com> and Cryptome
>> <cryptome at earthlink.net> have been > compromised. > The keys have
>> been revoked today. Revocation could have been done by the person who
>> stole the keys too. That in itself is not good enough. > Two new keys
>> have been generated today: > > John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com>
>> 0xD87D436C > Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> 0x8CD47BD5
>> Which I cannot find on either pgp.mit.edu or pgp.surfnet.nl. I did
>> find them on keyserver.pgp.com, but I don't know who runs it and with
>> the additional captcha software, no idea if that is compromised :P It
>> is announced using short keyids, not to be trusted, and no finger
>> prints although we can get those from the key used to sign this
>> message I guess. $ gpg --list-sigs D87D436C pub   4096R/D87D436C
>> 2015-09-15 uid                  John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com>
>> sig      N   D87D436C 2015-09-15  John Young 15-0915
>> <jya at pipeline.com> sig          CA57AD7C 2015-09-15  [User ID not
>> found] sub   4096R/79F82F3B 2015-09-15 sig          D87D436C
>> 2015-09-15  John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com> $ gpg --list-sigs
>> 8CD47BD5 pub   4096R/8CD47BD5 2015-09-15 uid                 
>> Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> sig      N   8CD47BD5
>> 2015-09-15  Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> sig         
>> CA57AD7C 2015-09-15  [User ID not found] sub   4096R/27BCF5FB
>> 2015-09-15 sig          8CD47BD5 2015-09-15  Cryptome 15-0915
>> <cryptome at earthlink.net> The keys are both announced but not signed
>> by each other? I fetched CA57AD7C which has 6863 signatures on it. It
>> seems to be some PGP global directory key, signed by a few people I
>> know, but still seems to be only proof that it came from the
>> keyserver, not that the key actually belongs to you. > This message
>> is signed by the first. But is that first key signed by the old keys?
>> (which of course could also have been done by the attacker, so you
>> need to re-start a web of trust with some of your personal
>> confidants. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- from an unknown key -
>> with no direct signatures of any known trustable key run by a human.
>> Paul _______________________________________________ The cryptography
>> mailing list cryptography at metzdowd.com
>> http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
>
>
>


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From cypher at cpunk.us  Tue Sep 15 15:03:46 2015
From: cypher at cpunk.us (Cypher)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:03:46 -0500
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Keys Compromised
In-Reply-To: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <fe0e3969c593b5e3c10820b8625a8d1b@cajuntechie.org>

On 2015-09-15 14:04, John Young wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 15 September 2015
> 
> I have learned today that all PGP public keys of John Young
> <jya at pipeline.com> and Cryptome <cryptome at earthlink.net> have been
> compromised.
> The keys have been revoked today

Hi John,

Sorry to hear about your compromise. Any chance of getting a postmortem 
from you on how they were compromised at some point?




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 10:21:10 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:21:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to communicate in a mesh net?  (Or, at least differently than it may have been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi routers (www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that the vast majority of routers are physically close to many other routers, certainly close enough to communicate with each other, and ultimately over a long distance.  A crowd-sourced communication system, one that wouldn't necessarily go through the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to the Bittorrent system.    I just  found this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct

            Jim Bell

>From that URL:

"Wi-Fi Direct, initially called Wi-Fi P2P, is a Wi-Fi standard enabling devices to easily connect with each other without requiring a wireless access point.[1] It is usable for everything from internet browsing to file transfer,[2][3] and to communicate with more than one device simultaneously at typical Wi-Fi speeds.[4] One advantage of Wi-Fi Direct is the ability to connect devices even if they are from different manufacturers. Only one of the Wi-Fi devices needs to be compliant with Wi-Fi Direct to establish a peer-to-peer connection that transfers data directly between them with greatly reduced setup.[citation needed]
Wi-Fi Direct negotiates the link with a Wi-Fi Protected Setup system that assigns each device a limited wireless access point. The "pairing" of Wi-Fi Direct devices can be set up to require the proximity of a near field communication, a Bluetooth signal, or a button press on one or all the devices. Wi-Fi Direct may not only replace the need for routers, but may also replace the need of Bluetooth for applications that do not rely on low energy.[5]"
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 13:35:40 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:35:40 -0300
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <4976651.bNxTkPX9eq@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3039361.NNeJKgMHYJ@lapuntu>
 <55f752d0.caef8c0a.b7285.0c65@mx.google.com>
 <4976651.bNxTkPX9eq@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55f88012.4a16370a.3b641.ffffa5be@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:25 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia poniedziałek, 14 września 2015 20:10:17 Juan pisze:
> > On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:05:03 +0200
> > 
> > rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > > Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 19:03:07 Juan pisze:
> > > > > Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv
> > > > > shows no trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your
> > > > > browser, or something related...
> > > > 	
> > > > 	Yes, there's something wrong here, my bad.
> > > > https://mega.nz doesn't load either (investigating...)
> > > 
> > > Try the Tor Browser. :)
> > 
> > 	I tried it. With js enabled globally. Same thing. A bunch of
> > 	different circuits. None works. Pretty weird.
> 
> Well, now we know you do use Tor. Interesting.


	I used tor habitually in the past. That's how I learnt what kind
	of shit it is =) 


	https://www.reddit.com/r/AgMarketplace/



J.



















> 





From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Sep 15 15:39:15 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 18:39:15 -0400
Subject: [Cryptography] [cryptography] JYA and Cryptome Keys Compromised
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.20.1509151555380.22849@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <alpine.LFD.2.20.1509151555380.22849@bofh.nohats.ca>
Message-ID: <E1Zbyop-0003ot-Vx@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Correct analysis. First was get out a prompt notice to wave off users,
then proceed with other authentications. Toughest problem is how to
avoid another compromise of new keys since so many ways to do
that have arisen and/or suspected over the life of PGP and other
systems. WoT is problematic too, as are key signing parties, and
so on. Other systems claim to be better, and we are using some of
them, waiting and watching and suspecting are the lessons learned
from stalwart testbed PGP in all its guises and disguises.

We likely would not have discovered the compromises if not for
those lessons.

Nor do we mind starting from scratch, perhaps a bit more often
than 11 years. Tornados do happen out side alleys of easy
prediction (this is not a cyphersec sales motto).

At 04:22 PM 9/15/2015, Paul Wouters wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Sep 2015, John Young wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED 
>MESSAGE----- by unknown key. > I have learned today that all PGP 
>public keys of John Young > <jya at pipeline.com> and Cryptome 
><cryptome at earthlink.net> have been > compromised. > The keys have 
>been revoked today. Revocation could have been done by the person 
>who stole the keys too. That in itself is not good enough. > Two new 
>keys have been generated today: > > John Young 15-0915 
><jya at pipeline.com> 0xD87D436C > Cryptome 15-0915 
><cryptome at earthlink.net> 0x8CD47BD5 Which I cannot find on either 
>pgp.mit.edu or pgp.surfnet.nl. I did find them on keyserver.pgp.com, 
>but I don't know who runs it and with the additional captcha 
>software, no idea if that is compromised :P It is announced using 
>short keyids, not to be trusted, and no finger prints although we 
>can get those from the key used to sign this message I guess. $ gpg 
>--list-sigs D87D436C pub   4096R/D87D436C 2015-09-15 
>uid                  John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com> 
>sig      N   D87D436C 2015-09-15  John Young 15-0915 
><jya at pipeline.com> sig          CA57AD7C 2015-09-15  [User ID not 
>found] sub   4096R/79F82F3B 2015-09-15 sig          D87D436C 
>2015-09-15  John Young 15-0915 <jya at pipeline.com> $ gpg --list-sigs 
>8CD47BD5 pub   4096R/8CD47BD5 2015-09-15 
>uid                  Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> 
>sig      N   8CD47BD5 2015-09-15  Cryptome 15-0915 
><cryptome at earthlink.net> sig          CA57AD7C 2015-09-15  [User ID 
>not found] sub   4096R/27BCF5FB 2015-09-15 sig          8CD47BD5 
>2015-09-15  Cryptome 15-0915 <cryptome at earthlink.net> The keys are 
>both announced but not signed by each other? I fetched CA57AD7C 
>which has 6863 signatures on it. It seems to be some PGP global 
>directory key, signed by a few people I know, but still seems to be 
>only proof that it came from the keyserver, not that the key 
>actually belongs to you. > This message is signed by the first. But 
>is that first key signed by the old keys? (which of course could 
>also have been done by the attacker, so you need to re-start a web 
>of trust with some of your personal confidants. > -----BEGIN PGP 
>SIGNATURE----- from an unknown key - with no direct signatures of 
>any known trustable key run by a human. Paul 
>_______________________________________________ The cryptography 
>mailing list cryptography at metzdowd.com 
>http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography





From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Sep 15 15:47:06 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 18:47:06 -0400
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Keys Compromised
In-Reply-To: <fe0e3969c593b5e3c10820b8625a8d1b@cajuntechie.org>
References: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <fe0e3969c593b5e3c10820b8625a8d1b@cajuntechie.org>
Message-ID: <E1ZbywO-0005s4-H4@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sure, once we have better grasp of what happened. Wanted to
get an alert out quickly to warn off users.

At 06:03 PM 9/15/2015, Cypher wrote:
>On 2015-09-15 14:04, John Young wrote:
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA256
>>15 September 2015
>>I have learned today that all PGP public keys of John Young
>><jya at pipeline.com> and Cryptome <cryptome at earthlink.net> have been
>>compromised.
>>The keys have been revoked today
>
>Hi John,
>
>Sorry to hear about your compromise. Any chance of getting a 
>postmortem from you on how they were compromised at some point?





From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Sep 15 20:53:11 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:53:11 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_cbnNMhrQmqeX4gr0Fyo1tfc2SpEFr0vD3pztTLsShXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55F8D451.7030700@bitmessage.ch>
 <CAD2Ti2_cbnNMhrQmqeX4gr0Fyo1tfc2SpEFr0vD3pztTLsShXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150916035254.BA1B1C00016@frontend1.nyi.internal>

This is excellent news, thank you for updating!

(Apologies for top-posting; on my mobile & in a meeting, but could not wait 
to express joy & thanks!)

-s

----------
On September 15, 2015 8:47:32 PM grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://twitter.com/flexlibris
> https://twitter.com/libraryfreedom
> https://twitter.com/nhleblibraries
> https://twitter.com/LebLibraries
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tempest <tempest at bitmessage.ch>
> Date: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:30 PM
> Subject: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
> To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
>
>
> i just want to share the news that all of the hard work that has gone
> into the library freedom project paid off today at kilton library.
> despite pressure from the us federal government, which pulled out every
> card to sell fear that they had in their hat, the local community
> refused to accept it and thought on a global level to support the
> library's choice to offer a tor relay to the public.
>
> this is truly a monumental moment. libraries in the usa have often been
> the target of hostile actions that threaten the first amendment of the
> us constitution and the privacy rights of people. through a long string
> of legal battles, libraries have earned an extraordinary position that
> provides them with the ability to offer services that could land other
> people in significant legal battles which become both legally and
> politically difficult to close down.
>
> i'd just like to say thank you to everyone involved in the library
> freedom project who came up with the idea and didn't run away from the
> fight. this is an excellent beginning.
>
> if you can, please send your support to the library freedom project.
> https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate
>
> this is a great victory for today.
>
> --
> gpg key - 0x2A49578A7291BB34
> fingerprint - 63C4 E106 AC6A 5F2F DDB2 3840 2A49 578A 7291 BB34
>
> --
> tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 15 11:59:25 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 20:59:25 +0200
Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
In-Reply-To: <55f752d0.caef8c0a.b7285.0c65@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3039361.NNeJKgMHYJ@lapuntu> <55f752d0.caef8c0a.b7285.0c65@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4976651.bNxTkPX9eq@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 14 września 2015 20:10:17 Juan pisze:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:05:03 +0200
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia niedziela, 13 września 2015 19:03:07 Juan pisze:
> > > > Checked it before sending and just now. Link works. Ghostserv
> > > > shows no trackers at all on the page. Perhaps it's your browser,
> > > > or something related...
> > > 	
> > > 	Yes, there's something wrong here, my bad. https://mega.nz
> > > 	doesn't load either (investigating...)
> > 
> > Try the Tor Browser. :)
> 
> 	I tried it. With js enabled globally. Same thing. A bunch of
> 	different circuits. None works. Pretty weird.

Well, now we know you do use Tor. Interesting.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From dan at geer.org  Tue Sep 15 19:15:10 2015
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:15:10 -0400
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Sep 2015 22:51:51 -0700."
 <CAJVRA1TbU92KO37yD9BhN1B_qFhknvdrDpn2Wke9swSxwU6Bjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150916021510.A52D9A06E85@palinka.tinho.net>

 > what's funny is this leads to security advantage through obscurity,
 > where the bespoke solutions break off-the-shelf exploitation
 > techniques.

[I'm behind; this may be a duplicate]

DARPA is actively looking at obfuscation
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=a303af332a90b1e84fdb91d7dd382396&tab=core&_cview=0

Which leads me to ask the general question, what does one do when
something you might soon depend upon can simply never be analyzed?

We can oh so easily return to a world of sorcerers, alchemy, and
faith in powers in proportion to their mystery.


--dan





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 19:27:13 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 23:27:13 -0300
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <20150916021510.A52D9A06E85@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAJVRA1TbU92KO37yD9BhN1B_qFhknvdrDpn2Wke9swSxwU6Bjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150916021510.A52D9A06E85@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <55f8d27a.6029370a.b5b6f.ffffd6e9@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:15:10 -0400
dan at geer.org wrote:

>  > what's funny is this leads to security advantage through obscurity,
>  > where the bespoke solutions break off-the-shelf exploitation
>  > techniques.
> 
> [I'm behind; this may be a duplicate]
> 
> DARPA is actively looking at obfuscation
> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=a303af332a90b1e84fdb91d7dd382396&tab=core&_cview=0



	Dr. Michael Hsieh, SafeWare at darpa.mil

	that's a good address to send so called child porn 






> 
> Which leads me to ask the general question, what does one do when
> something you might soon depend upon can simply never be analyzed?
> 
> We can oh so easily return to a world of sorcerers, alchemy, and
> faith in powers in proportion to their mystery.
> 
> 
> --dan
> 
> 




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:39:49 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 23:39:49 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
In-Reply-To: <55F8D451.7030700@bitmessage.ch>
References: <55F8D451.7030700@bitmessage.ch>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_cbnNMhrQmqeX4gr0Fyo1tfc2SpEFr0vD3pztTLsShXQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://twitter.com/flexlibris
https://twitter.com/libraryfreedom
https://twitter.com/nhleblibraries
https://twitter.com/LebLibraries


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tempest <tempest at bitmessage.ch>
Date: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:30 PM
Subject: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org


i just want to share the news that all of the hard work that has gone
into the library freedom project paid off today at kilton library.
despite pressure from the us federal government, which pulled out every
card to sell fear that they had in their hat, the local community
refused to accept it and thought on a global level to support the
library's choice to offer a tor relay to the public.

this is truly a monumental moment. libraries in the usa have often been
the target of hostile actions that threaten the first amendment of the
us constitution and the privacy rights of people. through a long string
of legal battles, libraries have earned an extraordinary position that
provides them with the ability to offer services that could land other
people in significant legal battles which become both legally and
politically difficult to close down.

i'd just like to say thank you to everyone involved in the library
freedom project who came up with the idea and didn't run away from the
fight. this is an excellent beginning.

if you can, please send your support to the library freedom project.
https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate

this is a great victory for today.

--
gpg key - 0x2A49578A7291BB34
fingerprint - 63C4 E106 AC6A 5F2F DDB2 3840 2A49 578A 7291 BB34

--
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk




From blibbet at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 07:48:18 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 07:48:18 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F98132.5010305@gmail.com>

On 09/01/2015 08:43 AM, Blibbet wrote:
> On 08/31/2015 07:33 PM, coderman wrote:
>> On 8/31/15, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Potential insecurely-built IBM system firmware security aside, I don't
>>> think Libreboot nor SeaBIOS offers much in terms of security to stop
>>> attackers, as well.
...
> Having an ancient laptop may help. Attackers may not be able to use
> CHIPSEC's HAL, that's the positive side of not being able to use CHIPSEC
> to test your defenses. :-) But there are alternatives to CHIPSEC's HAL,
> and they're less strict about chipsec support, and will likely work on
> old Thinkpads.

Re: security of the IBM Thinkpads refurbished by the Ministry of
Freedom, it might be useful to check if they're in this category:

Quoting a tweet from Joanna if Invisible Things Lab, on the topic of
older hardware (than Purism's current choice):

https://twitter.com/rootkovska/status/643414071514148864

"and old systems do not have IOMMU (VT-d) which makes them even less
secure, trustworthy."




From themikebest at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 06:36:33 2015
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 09:36:33 -0400
Subject: peer to peer hypermedia protocol
Message-ID: <CANFTA0_fjCkocgTG9G93R11KHjxj5NU0uQPf8ntDNf_km9H16Q@mail.gmail.com>

Tried to send this last week. but apparently I'd been unsubscribed
from the list.

Some interesting possibilities here, especially when combined with
extra layers of encryption.

"IPFS is a distributed file system that seeks to connect all computing
devices with the same system of files. In some ways, this is similar
to the original aims of the Web, but IPFS is actually more similar to
a single bittorrent swarm exchanging git objects. IPFS could become a
new major subsystem of the internet. If built right, it could
complement or replace HTTP. It could complement or replace even more.
It sounds crazy. It is
crazy."

Main page: http://ipfs.io/
Overview:https://github.com/ipfs/papers/raw/master/ipfs-cap2pfs/ipfs-p2p-file-system.pdf
Git: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs/

Alpha demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CMxDNuuAiQ
Why we must distribute the web: https://youtu.be/skMTdSEaCtA
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Sep 16 02:12:36 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:12:36 +0100
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>

I don't actually know the answer to this, but in a summary article on 
the JS exploit they opened by saying part of its beauty was how many 
wonderfully peculiar preconditions were required before it became 
possible. Browser model, JS engine, hardware acceleration options, 
possibly firmwares, and DRAM model/generation/clockspeed.

No reason to be complacent, but the gist was "you probably don't need to 
worry about rowhammer-JS".

Rowhammer itself, OTOH, who knows? :)

On 16/09/15 10:01, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> This is old, but haven't seen it here.
>
> https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html
>
>
> ---
> Rowhammer” is a problem with some recent DRAM devices in which
> repeatedly accessing a row of memory can cause bit flips in adjacent
> rows.
> It was able to use this to gain write access to its own page table, and
> hence gain read-write access to all of physical memory.
> ---
>
> There is POC.
>
> Variant via javascript:
>
> https://github.com/IAIK/rowhammerjs
>
> How much/what hardware does this bug affect?
>

-- 
Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: cathalgarvey




From nymble at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 10:46:17 2015
From: nymble at gmail.com (Nymble)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:17 -0700
Subject: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <96C0776F-22CB-4AF2-B0EF-FBC46E784730@gmail.com>


> On Sep 15, 2015, at 10:21 AM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to communicate in a mesh net?  
Yes .. but usually using proprietary routing or 802.11s.

> (Or, at least differently than it may have been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi routers (www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that the vast majority of routers are physically close to many other routers, certainly close enough to communicate with each other, and ultimately over a long distance.  A crowd-sourced communication system, one that wouldn't necessarily go through the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to the Bittorrent system.    I just  found this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct>
This technology is intended for ‘direct’ peer-to-peer links and is being used for a few applications like phone to TV video streaming.  It’s not really a P2P technology in that one device always becomes the equivelent of a normal ‘AP’.  It makes it difficult to scale to larger topologies.

A better Wi-Fi P2P solution is: http://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware <http://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware> 
It’s new, but hopefully we’ll be seeing rapid incorporation into products.  For a change, the specifications are free and worth a browse.  The P2P discovery model is intentionally blinded to a degree by the use of truncated hashes of the ‘service names’ (6 octets).  P2P data exchanges are possible pre-association (no connection overhead).  


Paul

> 
>             Jim Bell
> 
> From that URL:
> 
> "Wi-Fi Direct, initially called Wi-Fi P2P, is a Wi-Fi standard enabling devices to easily connect with each other without requiring a wireless access point.[1] It is usable for everything from internet browsing to file transfer,[2][3] and to communicate with more than one device simultaneously at typical Wi-Fi speeds.[4] One advantage of Wi-Fi Direct is the ability to connect devices even if they are from different manufacturers. Only one of the Wi-Fi devices needs to be compliant with Wi-Fi Direct to establish a peer-to-peer connection that transfers data directly between them with greatly reduced setup.[citation needed]
> Wi-Fi Direct negotiates the link with a Wi-Fi Protected Setup system that assigns each device a limited wireless access point. The "pairing" of Wi-Fi Direct devices can be set up to require the proximity of a near field communication, a Bluetooth signal, or a button press on one or all the devices. Wi-Fi Direct may not only replace the need for routers, but may also replace the need of Bluetooth for applications that do not rely on low energy.[5]"

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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 02:01:05 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:01:05 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
Message-ID: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>

This is old, but haven't seen it here.

https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html


---
Rowhammer” is a problem with some recent DRAM devices in which
repeatedly accessing a row of memory can cause bit flips in adjacent
rows.
It was able to use this to gain write access to its own page table, and
hence gain read-write access to all of physical memory.
---

There is POC.

Variant via javascript:

https://github.com/IAIK/rowhammerjs

How much/what hardware does this bug affect?




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 02:41:38 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:41:38 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150916094137.GB2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:12:36AM +0100, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> I don't actually know the answer to this, but in a summary article
> on the JS exploit they opened by saying part of its beauty was how
> many wonderfully peculiar preconditions were required before it
> became possible. Browser model, JS engine, hardware acceleration
> options, possibly firmwares, and DRAM model/generation/clockspeed.
> 
> No reason to be complacent, but the gist was "you probably don't
> need to worry about rowhammer-JS".
> 

OK, javascript vector aside (it is at least theoretical threat, but
ATM don't see how a page can exploit it only with this attack
without additional bug).


> Rowhammer itself, OTOH, who knows? :)
> 

This appears real threat according to claims and the POC.


> On 16/09/15 10:01, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> >This is old, but haven't seen it here.
> >
> >https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html
> >
> >
> >---
> >Rowhammer” is a problem with some recent DRAM devices in which
> >repeatedly accessing a row of memory can cause bit flips in adjacent
> >rows.
> >It was able to use this to gain write access to its own page table, and
> >hence gain read-write access to all of physical memory.
> >---
> >
> >There is POC.
> >
> >Variant via javascript:
> >
> >https://github.com/IAIK/rowhammerjs
> >
> >How much/what hardware does this bug affect?
> >




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 05:33:15 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 15:33:15 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150916123315.GE2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard to 
> defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly a 
> real threat?
> 
> [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
>

These might help you realize what the answer to your question is:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/15/refugee-crisis-hungary-launches-border-crackdown-live-updates

Refugee crisis: Hungary rejects all asylum requests made at border – as
it happened


http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/15/serbia-urges-hungary-to-open-border.html

The tough new laws make it a criminal offense, punishable with several
years of prison time, to cross into Hungary without permission or to
damage the 103-mile, 13-foot-high fence along the border with Serbian
that was completed on Monday evening.





From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Sep 16 16:54:49 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 19:54:49 -0400
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <55f8d27a.6029370a.b5b6f.ffffd6e9@mx.google.com>
References: <CAJVRA1TbU92KO37yD9BhN1B_qFhknvdrDpn2Wke9swSxwU6Bjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150916021510.A52D9A06E85@palinka.tinho.net>
 <55f8d27a.6029370a.b5b6f.ffffd6e9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <55FA0149.6000303@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/15/2015 10:27 PM, Juan wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 22:15:10 -0400 dan at geer.org wrote:
> 
>>> what's funny is this leads to security advantage through 
>>> obscurity, where the bespoke solutions break off-the-shelf 
>>> exploitation techniques.
>> 
>> [I'm behind; this may be a duplicate]
>> 
>> DARPA is actively looking at obfuscation 
>> https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=a303af332a90
b1e84fdb91d7dd382396&tab=core&_cview=0
>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Michael Hsieh, SafeWare at darpa.mil
> 
> that's a good address to send so called child porn

And other waterhole attacks of various types...  any ole thing
that's likely to bet bookmarked and passed around the office or -
horror of horrors - taken home.

:o)


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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 13:03:54 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:03:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

 >From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
>This is old, but haven't seen it here.
>https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html

>Rowhammer” is a problem with some recent DRAM devices in which
>repeatedly accessing a row of memory can cause bit flips in adjacent
>rows.
>It was able to use this to gain write access to its own page table, and
>hence gain read-write access to all of physical memory.
>There is POC.
>Variant via javascript:
>https://github.com/IAIK/rowhammerjs
>How much/what hardware does this bug affect?
This brings me back to my stint at Intel, 1980-82, as a new Product Engineer for the 2186, an 8kx8 pseudostatic (self-refreshing dynamic) RAM. (One of the first DRAMs to use redundancy to increase yield.)  I may have been the first engineer in the world to see, through a microscope focused on a DRAM chip, a very quick series of flashes, evidence of the programming (blowing) silicon fuses on the chip, to program the row- and column-redundancy information.
 Product engineers were, and presumably still are, responsible for writing test programs to run chips through their paces, in Intel's case using a Teradyne computer.       http://www.teradyne.com/products/semiconductor-test/magnum-v
I don't think the concept of this kind of weakness is new:  Even in 1980, DRAMs were tested for such repeated accesses, to ensure that such errors would not occur.  This was particularly true for a process called "device characterization", in which chips were attacked in all manner of electronically-abusive ways, to uncover these weaknesses, and fix the circuit design should such flaws be uncovered. One way these techniques could be thwarted is to return to the use of parity-bits (8+1 parity) in memory access, in DRAM module and computer design, to whatever extent they are no longer used.  Any (successful) attempt to modify bits in a DRAM would quickly end up causing a parity error, which would at least show which manufacturer's DRAM chips are susceptible to this kind of attack.  A person who was forced to use a no-parity computer could, at least,  limit his purchases of such modules to those populated with DRAMs not susceptible to the problem.           Jim Bell 




  
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Sep 16 17:07:52 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:07:52 -0400
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>

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On 09/15/2015 01:21 PM, jim bell wrote:
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to 
> communicate in a mesh net?  (Or, at least differently than it 
> may have been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi 
> routers (www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that 
> the vast majority of routers are physically close to many
> other routers, certainly close enough to communicate with each
> other, and ultimately over a long distance.  A crowd-sourced 
> communication system, one that wouldn't necessarily go through 
> the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to the Bittorrent 
> system.    I just found this: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct

A friend turned me on to this some time ago.  I have yet to set up
any mesh networks but it does look VERY promising.

http://hsmm-mesh.org/

:o)



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JR6lo32GZPfKXfK5D97I
=HR+9
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 13:28:27 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:28:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <96C0776F-22CB-4AF2-B0EF-FBC46E784730@gmail.com>
References: <96C0776F-22CB-4AF2-B0EF-FBC46E784730@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <779052061.573084.1442435307354.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Nymble <nymble at gmail.com>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 

>This technology is intended for ‘direct’ peer-to-peer links and is being used for a few applications like phone to TV video streaming.  It’s not> really a P2P technology in that one device always becomes the equivelent of a normal ‘AP’.  It makes it difficult to scale to larger topologies.
You ought to be more careful when you use the acronym "AP" in emails to me.  Might be misinterpreted!    B^)
             Jim Bell  
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:35:39 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 23:35:39 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
In-Reply-To: <55F95E56.7050409@riseup.net>
References: <mailman.17.1442404802.2028.tor-talk@lists.torproject.org>
 <55F95E56.7050409@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29aRFAr3iJh2iOianvmp1VVs1xe0yM2-tdBwmzRHQMwZA@mail.gmail.com>

https://freestateproject.org/blogs/historic-win-internet-freedom-nh-tor-node-kilton-library-turned-back
http://www.npr.org/2015/09/16/440914105/n-h-public-library-reconsiders-support-for-anonymous-internet-network-tor



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alison Macrina <macrina at riseup.net>
Date: Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library
To: tor-talk at lists.torproject.org



> i just want to share the news that all of the hard work that has gone
> into the library freedom project paid off today at kilton library.
> despite pressure from the us federal government, which pulled out every
> card to sell fear that they had in their hat, the local community
> refused to accept it and thought on a global level to support the
> library's choice to offer a tor relay to the public.
>
> this is truly a monumental moment. libraries in the usa have often been
> the target of hostile actions that threaten the first amendment of the
> us constitution and the privacy rights of people. through a long string
> of legal battles, libraries have earned an extraordinary position that
> provides them with the ability to offer services that could land other
> people in significant legal battles which become both legally and
> politically difficult to close down.
>
> i'd just like to say thank you to everyone involved in the library
> freedom project who came up with the idea and didn't run away from the
> fight. this is an excellent beginning.
>
> if you can, please send your support to the library freedom project.
> https://libraryfreedomproject.org/donate
>
> this is a great victory for today.


Thank you! I think I can speak for both mrphs and myself when I say that
we are thrilled with the outcome. What we saw last night was an
incredible display of community support for free speech and Tor, and an
unequivocal rejection of unlawful government intrusion and FUD. The
Lebanon Libraries staff and community did something historic; I've been
an activist for a long time and I've never been a part of a direct
action quite like that. This is what happens when communities come
together to resist.

Please keep an eye out for more news coverage. The local news in NH has
already put something up with a few great quotes from community members
present: http://www.vnews.com/home/18620952-95/library-joins-privacy-network

If you're on twitter, say hi to @leblibraries or @nhleblibraries -- the
second one is library director Sean Fleming, and I know he'd be moved to
hear from folks in the Tor community about what his library community
did last night.

Thanks all for your support. We just had the world's first Tor protest,
and it was a wild success. Imagine all the library exit relays we're
gonna get now. :)

Alison (director of Library Freedom Project)
--
tor-talk mailing list - tor-talk at lists.torproject.org
To unsubscribe or change other settings go to
https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:46:26 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 23:46:26 -0400
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:03 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
>>This is old, but haven't seen it here.
>>https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2015/03/exploiting-dram-rowhammer-bug-to-gain.html
>
>>Rowhammer” is a problem with some recent DRAM devices in which
>>repeatedly accessing a row of memory can cause bit flips in adjacent
>>rows.
>>It was able to use this to gain write access to its own page table, and
>>hence gain read-write access to all of physical memory.
>>There is POC.
>>Variant via javascript:
>>https://github.com/IAIK/rowhammerjs
>>How much/what hardware does this bug affect?
>
> This brings me back to my stint at Intel, 1980-82, as a new Product Engineer
> for the 2186, an 8kx8 pseudostatic (self-refreshing dynamic) RAM. (One of
> the first DRAMs to use redundancy to increase yield.)  I may have been the
> first engineer in the world to see, through a microscope focused on a DRAM
> chip, a very quick series of flashes, evidence of the programming (blowing)
> silicon fuses on the chip, to program the row- and column-redundancy
> information.
>
>  Product engineers were, and presumably still are, responsible for writing
> test programs to run chips through their paces, in Intel's case using a
> Teradyne computer.
> http://www.teradyne.com/products/semiconductor-test/magnum-v
>
> I don't think the concept of this kind of weakness is new:  Even in 1980,
> DRAMs were tested for such repeated accesses, to ensure that such errors
> would not occur.  This was particularly true for a process called "device
> characterization", in which chips were attacked in all manner of
> electronically-abusive ways, to uncover these weaknesses, and fix the
> circuit design should such flaws be uncovered.
> One way these techniques could be thwarted is to return to the use of
> parity-bits (8+1 parity) in memory access, in DRAM module and computer
> design, to whatever extent they are no longer used.  Any (successful)
> attempt to modify bits in a DRAM would quickly end up causing a parity
> error, which would at least show which manufacturer's DRAM chips are
> susceptible to this kind of attack.  A person who was forced to use a
> no-parity computer could, at least,  limit his purchases of such modules to
> those populated with DRAMs not susceptible to the problem.
>            Jim Bell


Some paper has said systems using ECC RAM are resistant / immune
to rowhammer.

There is still a fair bump in cost for ECC system
however once you've seen your first syslog entry
you forget about the cost. Regardless of rowhammer.




From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 00:23:14 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:23:14 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>

another to complete:

at least 10 P25 Motorola radios at Department of State. and some not
so pretty carpet :P

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/p25count-20177/#file-54797


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:39:10 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:39:10 -0400
Subject: [cryptography] a little help with cookies please
In-Reply-To: <17DAA586-BCFB-4C4E-B968-09141DD38688@flownet.com>
References: <E1ZbvSn-00065I-DJ@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <55F8C87D.4010806@gmx.com>
 <CAHWD2rLPqC6MN_WcCGjnXT7EEQYVauKV8TkqDOFh8eP46jJESw@mail.gmail.com>
 <17DAA586-BCFB-4C4E-B968-09141DD38688@flownet.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti285b_p2Lo_P2+Oh3Ydrcz=y8f9Bxs=ME0UuR6HcHYEPZg@mail.gmail.com>

What is of more crypto / security interest is not bandwidth use
or even domain or path restrictions, but failure of webdevs to
seed and restrict sensitive cookies (like your authenticated
session id's) from and to TLS only sessions.
Well known top100 sites that still have a legacy http mode
fail to do this properly... banks, social, govt, etc.
Even sites that immediately 302 your first hit (or other hits)
over to https thereafter can be found doing it wrong.
Ripe for wifi or wire monitoring based session stealing.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:59:36 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:59:36 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150916123315.GE2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu> <20150916123315.GE2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-oqQM1EmQOrtbjrFOx37Q4nj=MbrufWNeyc1vXsviLeg@mail.gmail.com>

>> defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-

Does 3000 case per 10M prevalance of ebola warrant response?
Is not religion [viewed as] infectious highly incurable / offensive disease?
What is the burden on social bootstrap / welfare systems?
These are some of the contexts in which they are thinking.
In addition to their fanatical control freakery and head in sand
of closed borders. You probably can rightfully protect yourself
as a soverign, so long as your walls don't prevent those within
from leaving.

[spent: 1 non cypher posting credit]




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 22:07:51 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 05:07:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <598418556.769488.1442466471588.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 4:03 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:



>  Product engineers were, and presumably still are, responsible for writing
> test programs to run chips through their paces, in Intel's case using a
> Teradyne computer.
> http://www.teradyne.com/products/semiconductor-test/magnum-v
>
> I don't think the concept of this kind of weakness is new:  Even in 1980,
> DRAMs were tested for such repeated accesses, to ensure that such errors
> would not occur.  This was particularly true for a process called "device
> characterization", in which chips were attacked in all manner of
> electronically-abusive ways, to uncover these weaknesses, and fix the
> circuit design should such flaws be uncovered.
> One way these techniques could be thwarted is to return to the use of
> parity-bits (8+1 parity) in memory access, in DRAM module and computer
> design, to whatever extent they are no longer used.  Any (successful)
> attempt to modify bits in a DRAM would quickly end up causing a parity
> error, which would at least show which manufacturer's DRAM chips are
> susceptible to this kind of attack.  A person who was forced to use a
> no-parity computer could, at least,  limit his purchases of such modules to
> those populated with DRAMs not susceptible to the problem.
>            Jim Bell


Some paper has said systems using ECC RAM are resistant / immune
to rowhammer.

There is still a fair bump in cost for ECC system
however once you've seen your first syslog entry
you forget about the cost. Regardless of rowhammer.
You're right, ECC would be even better.  ECC should, indeed, be essentially immune from rowhammer, and will correct it and all other sorts of single-bit errors, and they will generally detect all double-bit errors.   However, as you pointed out ECC is presumably much more costly than mere parity bits, not in the least because they have to use more bits of storage.  As I vaguely recall, 8 data bits had to be coupled with 4 ECC bits; 16 data/5ECC; 32 data/6 ECC; 64 data/7 ECC; 128 data/8 ECC.  This shows that ECC is much more efficient, as word width goes up, which in principle would make its cost penalty easier to take. I haven't been keeping up with DRAM technology like I did in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, but I am not aware if ECC is being easily implemented inside DRAM chips.  There was a very early Micron Technology 64Kbit DRAM that, as I recall, had this internal to individual DRAM chips, but it didn't last very long in competition with the jellybean parts.  Even more than the cost, I think that ECC added (and maybe still adds) an access-time penalty.  Generally, parity-only shouldn't add access time delays.  One obscure issue is that if the external memory system detects an error (either parity or ECC), can the microprocessor be instructed to "back up" and reject the recently-acquired byte/word?  Most early microprocessors didn't have that ability, which I believe is why those systems had to "wait" for the parity or ECC to be generated and checked.          Jim Bell





  
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 22:28:58 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 05:28:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150917045103.GA2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150917045103.GA2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <182703757.6064.1442467738591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:46:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:


>> Some paper has said systems using ECC RAM are resistant / immune>> to rowhammer.
>> There is still a fair bump in cost for ECC system
>> however once you've seen your first syslog entry
>> you forget about the cost. Regardless of rowhammer.
>ECC appears controversial:
  http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/03/some-notes-on-dram-rowhammer.html

>Update: This is really just meant as a primer, as background on the
i>ssue, not really trying to derive any conclusions. I chatted a bit
>Chris Evans (@scarybeasts) from google about some of those conclusion,
>so I thought I'd expand a bit on them.

>Does ECC protect you? Maybe not. While it will correct single bit flips
>most of the time, it won't protect when multiple bits flip at once.
 Not exactly.  Generally, ECC with enough correction bits will at least detect all double-bit errors, although it will not correct those errors.  And I can't say for sure how generally this is in use, but I think a competently-designed ECC system will use the regular refresh cycles to "sweep" for correctable single-bit errors, and correct virtually all of them, before they turn into double-bit errors.
>The hacker may be able to achieve this with enough tries. Remember: the>hacker's code can keep retrying this until it succeeds, even if that>takes hours.
However, the profusion of corrected single-bit can be used to alert, and uncorrectable double-bit errors will probably cause  a system exception that will inform the system operator that something is going on.
Remember, it is likely that different manufacturer's DRAM designs might differ in sensitivity to rowhammer (or other deliberate failure mode) by a factor of 10:1, 100:1, or even 1000:1.   The word can, and will, quickly get out what manufacturers sensitivity is, and the market will quickly result in improvement for designs and thus, new systems.           Jim Bell





  
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From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Sep 17 04:12:29 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:12:29 -0400
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Passphrase Are Secure
Message-ID: <E1ZcX60-0005Ya-Rm@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

JYA and Cryptome passphrases are secure. Plaintext discovered
not related to Cryptome, with alternative to decrypt: original not
scrubbed.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build 3017)
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=XoD0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 21:51:03 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:51:03 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150917045103.GA2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:46:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> 
> Some paper has said systems using ECC RAM are resistant / immune
> to rowhammer.
> 
> There is still a fair bump in cost for ECC system
> however once you've seen your first syslog entry
> you forget about the cost. Regardless of rowhammer.

ECC appears controversial:

http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/03/some-notes-on-dram-rowhammer.html

===
Update: This is really just meant as a primer, as background on the
issue, not really trying to derive any conclusions. I chatted a bit
Chris Evans (@scarybeasts) from google about some of those conclusion,
so I thought I'd expand a bit on them.

Does ECC protect you? Maybe not. While it will correct single bit flips
most of the time, it won't protect when multiple bits flip at once. The
hacker may be able to achieve this with enough tries. Remember: the
hacker's code can keep retrying this until it succeeds, even if that
takes hours.
===





From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Sep 17 05:24:07 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:24:07 -0400
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Passphrase Are Secure
In-Reply-To: <20150917112055.GB5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <E1ZcX60-0005Ya-Rm@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150917112055.GB5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <E1ZcYD2-0002nV-Is@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's PGP, not GP nor P.

At 07:20 AM 9/17/2015, Georgi Guninski wrote:
>On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 07:12:29AM -0400, John Young wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > JYA and Cryptome passphrases are secure. Plaintext discovered
> > not related to Cryptome, with alternative to decrypt: original not
> > scrubbed.
> >
>
>Would you bet your life on this?
>
>Secure to ``thermal'' cryptoanalysis?
>
>This header, unless spoofed on purpose:
>
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
>
>suggests at least m$ and the nsa can easily
>obtain your passphrases...





From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 22:36:33 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:36:33 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 08:03:54PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> This brings me back to my stint at Intel, 1980-82, as a new Product Engineer for the 2186, an 8kx8 pseudostatic (self-refreshing dynamic) RAM. (One of the first DRAMs to use redundancy to increase yield.)  I may have been the first engineer in the world to see, through a microscope focused on a DRAM chip, a very quick series of flashes, evidence of the programming (blowing) silicon fuses on the chip, to program the row- and column-redundancy information.
>  Product engineers were, and presumably still are, responsible for writing test programs to run chips through their paces, in Intel's case using a Teradyne computer.       http://www.teradyne.com/products/semiconductor-test/magnum-v
> I don't think the concept of this kind of weakness is new:  Even in 1980, DRAMs were tested for such repeated accesses, to ensure that such errors would not occur.  This was particularly true for a process called "device characterization", in which chips were attacked in all manner of electronically-abusive ways, to uncover these weaknesses, and fix the circuit design should such flaws be uncovered. One way these techniques could be thwarted is to return to the use of parity-bits (8+1 parity) in memory access, in DRAM module and computer design, to whatever extent they are no longer used.  Any (successful) attempt to modify bits in a DRAM would quickly end up causing a parity error, which would at least show which manufacturer's DRAM chips are susceptible to this kind of attack.  A person who was forced to use a no-parity computer could, at least,  limit his purchases of such modules to those populated with DRAMs not susceptible to the problem.           Jim Bell 


I don't understand hardware and have some questions

The POC appears non-deterministic per the nature of the bug.

1. If I run the POC for time X and it fails, does
this mean it will fail if I run it for time 100 X?

2. Does increasing the temperature in the box
(near or above overheating) increase the chance for
success?

3. If you have computer near you, can you induce bit
flips on purpose remotely, without executing code on
it? (lol, AFAICT if you wait looooong enough cosmic rays
will this for you for free, but I am asking about
realistic attack).




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 16 22:52:13 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:52:13 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <182703757.6064.1442467738591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150917045103.GA2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <182703757.6064.1442467738591.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150917055213.GC2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 05:28:58AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> However, the profusion of corrected single-bit can be used to alert, and uncorrectable double-bit errors will probably cause  a system exception that will inform the system operator that something is going on.
> Remember, it is likely that different manufacturer's DRAM designs might differ in sensitivity to rowhammer (or other deliberate failure mode) by a factor of 10:1, 100:1, or even 1000:1.   The word can, and will, quickly get out what manufacturers sensitivity is, and the market will quickly result in improvement for designs and thus, new systems.           Jim Bell

You assume sound market, sound buyers and sound users.

IMHO these assumptions are false.

rowhammer is at least 6 months old.

Are there any market changes supporting your claim?




From hettinga at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 06:33:02 2015
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:33:02 -0400
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Passphrase Are Secure
In-Reply-To: <E1ZcYD2-0002nV-Is@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZcX60-0005Ya-Rm@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150917112055.GB5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <E1ZcYD2-0002nV-Is@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <221CA16A-96FB-47CA-BD34-5831ADE96AD2@gmail.com>


> On Sep 17, 2015, at 8:24 AM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> 
> It's PGP, not GP nor P.
> 
>> 

>> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9

The cobbler’s children have no shoes. 

:-)

Cheers,
RAH
Who’s blown up so many keys in so many dead hard drives, it’s not worth it anymore.
Key management is hard.





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Sep 17 09:38:44 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:38:44 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu> <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <55FAEC94.3000408@riseup.net>



On 09/16/2015 08:05 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
> McCarthy was right to defend the US against Soviet influence

Know the nice thing about flags James? They're all the same color when
they burn.

My mommy was a pink-diaper commie, and I'm an anarchist, and no one has
ANY right to prevent anyone or any society from trying to influence my
decisions. 

I'm much more concerned with Western media trying to influence my
opinions so they can sell advertising space to influence me about crap
I'm supposed to have to be socially 'normative' to a murderous and
Earth-destroying '5 planet lifestyle'.

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From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep 17 00:25:39 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 10:25:39 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:46:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> 
> Some paper has said systems using ECC RAM are resistant / immune
> to rowhammer.
> 
> There is still a fair bump in cost for ECC system
> however once you've seen your first syslog entry
> you forget about the cost. Regardless of rowhammer.

http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~omutlu/pub/dram-row-hammer_kim_talk_isca14.pdf
p. 32 of the PDF:
– Simple ECC (e.g., SECDED) cannot prevent all errors

 From wikipedia:  Tests show that simple ECC solutions, providing
 single-error correction and double-error detection (SECDED)
 capabilities, are not able to correct or detect all observed
 disturbance errors because some of them include more than two flipped
 bits per memory word.[1]:8[11]:32

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer#cite_ref-isca14-talk_11-0




From nymble at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 10:52:09 2015
From: nymble at gmail.com (Nymble)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 10:52:09 -0700
Subject: LTE in Wi-Fi bands
In-Reply-To: <55D427C8.1020005@m-o-o-t.org>
References: <55D2E3D0.6020608@m-o-o-t.org>
 <325681106.2138497.1439922195133.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55D427C8.1020005@m-o-o-t.org>
Message-ID: <381766F4-A43B-4635-8798-606D726ABC02@gmail.com>

Cells phones in 2016 will start to use Wi-Fi bands for LTE: 
	http://goo.gl/s2Vsrz
There goes our free use of spectrum.  There has been no adiquate effort by Qualcomm to demonstrate that LTE-U will compete fairly for band usage against Wi-Fi.  




> On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:52 PM, Peter Fairbrother <peter at m-o-o-t.org> wrote:
> 
> On 18/08/15 19:23, jim bell wrote:
>> *From:* Peter Fairbrother <peter at m-o-o-t.org>
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: Recommended Movie: "Sebastian" 1968.
>> 
>> On 18/08/15 03:46, jim bell wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >> Since people seem to be recommending things, I recommend the movie
>> >> "Sebastian".  Dirk Bogarde, Susannah York.
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIK3OYnD9MY
>> 
>> >> Out of date even when it was made, I think it really represents the
>> >> cryptography situation as of the 1930's.
>> 
>> >Based on a screenplay by Leo Marks - author of Between Silk and Cyanide:
>> >A Codemaker's War 1941-1945.
>> >Essential reading. Leo was the codemaker for SOE. All hand ciphers and
>> >agents.
>> >He wasn't at Bletchley - who called him "the one who got away" - though,
>> >and so no machine ciphers.
>> >The Silk in the title was for OTPs which could be hidden in clothing
>> >from Gestapo/SS searches.
>> >As I said, essential reading.
>> 
>> 
>> The tv show 60 Minutes spilled the beans about Enigma in 1975.
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-ultra-secret/
> 
> 
> Not sure that was the one to spill the beans. I thought it was Winterbotham's 1974 book of the same name which first got the idea across to the public; though there was a French book in 1973 as well.
> 
> Like Winterbotham's book, which the TV show seems to be based on, it's also a bit confused and/or inaccurate. Much of what they tell - the conversations between Hitler and his generals, "knowing Hitler's most secret thoughts", and Hitler's message re Anzio which Gen Clark read - came from the breaking of the Lorentz SZ40, not the Enigma. Colossus, not Bombe.
> 
> And the Coventry story is fiction [1]. Churchill could not have been told the target from ULTRA decrypts. The ULTRA decrypts are now available in public records, and they do not mention Coventry.
> 
> 
> 
> [1] My theory: Probably it began as a story made up to impress the need to keep the ULTRA secret - "hey if the man at the door with the revolver who just threatened to shoot you doesn't impress you, Churchill allowed [2] the bombing of Coventry in order to keep the secret".
> 
> Later the story became an accusation, then a rumour, then a play - though by the time it became a play it was becoming obvious that ULTRA wasn't involved, and the motive for allowing the bombing changed to "Impressing the Americans" [3].
> 
> I can easily imagine someone telling Winterbotham the story (Winterbotham was the one who first told the Coventry story in public).
> 
> I can also imagine Winterbotham repeating the story, in confidence, in order to impress the listener with the need to keep the secret (and with W himself) so often that he didn't know whether it was true or not (he didn't claim to be personally involved).
> 
> Good story, and Churchill was probably capable of it - but it ain't true.
> 
> 
> 
> [2] not that there was anything he could have done to stop the bombing, but for the sake of the narrative ..
> 
> 
> [3] requiring an even wilder suspension of belief, IME
> 
> 
>> What most people didn't realize was that the controversy was due to the
>> fact that rotor-driven cipher machines had been continued to be sold in
>> the post-WWII era, without their weakness being recognized.  This
>> allowed the CIA/GCHQ to continue to decrypt enciphered messages for
>> decades afterwards.
> 
> 
> Yes - but Leo Marks wasn't involved in that. He ~ stopped being a cryptographer when SOE was broken up at the end of the war.
> 
> What he did was hand ciphers, for agents in occupied countries - they couldn't carry cipher machines.
> 
> There is nothing else like Between Silk and Cyanide in the crypto literature. Crypto at the cutting edge, where a mistake is a painful death, and likely worse.
> 
> More, it is about how a cryptographer and his work interact with the world.
> 
> I would not like to have been Leo (I met him once), but hell if I don't respect him.
> 
> There is a TV documentary about him, called "A Very British Psycho" - an apt title.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Peter Fairbrother





From chgans at gna.org  Wed Sep 16 17:33:37 2015
From: chgans at gna.org (Christian Gagneraud)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:33:37 +1200
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <55FA0A61.6080501@gna.org>

On 17/09/15 12:07, Steve Kinney wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 09/15/2015 01:21 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>
>>
>> Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to
>> communicate in a mesh net?  (Or, at least differently than it
>> may have been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi
>> routers (www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that
>> the vast majority of routers are physically close to many
>> other routers, certainly close enough to communicate with each
>> other, and ultimately over a long distance.  A crowd-sourced
>> communication system, one that wouldn't necessarily go through
>> the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to the Bittorrent
>> system.    I just found this:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct
>
> A friend turned me on to this some time ago.  I have yet to set up
> any mesh networks but it does look VERY promising.
>
> http://hsmm-mesh.org/

This might be of interest too: https://freifunk.net/en/

Chris

>
> :o)
>
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1
>
> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJV+gRWAAoJEDZ0Gg87KR0L55UP/0hIU5rXZbuw0hdLu2HzLiM8
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> Ce/Jp0QsVbtKXUhww1MKOSVR5rARhxU5YfN6bjDN3Ivq6FKIXFwrSg2dXnq+DC3f
> XI56/TeBgRKKv6cZYHULFBCbsxfptf/26yhCMF83TbXxYLA+W262DHpVTi26s0xw
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> JR6lo32GZPfKXfK5D97I
> =HR+9
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 09:33:48 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:33:48 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <55FABDE0.8020401@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu> <20150916123315.GE2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti2-oqQM1EmQOrtbjrFOx37Q4nj=MbrufWNeyc1vXsviLeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FABDE0.8020401@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28h4bJuKiUTL400fCDkvJy85LOMeh2rG-SoggjZkF4LKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Cathal Garvey
<cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> Maybe, just maybe, "National Identity"/"Racial and Cultural Strength" is a
> load of bullshit, and far more of a threat to human flourishing than
> believing in usually-benevolent Sky Gods.

It's all bs and all a threat, definitely including believers in sky gods.
Except for maybe the FSM.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 09:42:59 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:42:59 -0400
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <720222154.588327.1442433834350.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_kHhhMQ9yYcoHbOqDxCb9X3oq_JWgRzPh5mySZ8i9UdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28bGuDWa+u7JvCYtVkOoi1q4UQ3tfAqpqs2vayNVhUCZg@mail.gmail.com>

Some ballyhoo about rowhammer was like "look we can flip
a single bit and get root". Obviously if you're going for
multibit carnage ECC doesn't help much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_code




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Sep 16 20:05:49 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:05:49 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1ZZeNI-0003ll-9J@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>

On 2015-09-10 08:52, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
>> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
>>
>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
>> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
>
> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically make B
> not evil.
>
> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't
> really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically
> okay.

The fact that Russia is being subverted by the USA, that the USA is 
attempting to overthrow the Russian government, does make that 
government's efforts to defend itself and its people against foreign 
influence OK.

McCarthy was right to defend the US against Soviet influence, and Putin 
is right to defend Russia against US influence.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 10:54:00 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:54:00 -0400
Subject: US New Hampshire Needs Help Accepting Bitcoin For Taxes
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29shax9n_sPsik9-br3tr2E279zpcaTD=TYiQak9D=fRw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l9cpq/tomorrow_0917_nh_will_try_to_pass_a_bill_to_allow/
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/committees/billtext.aspx?billnumber=HB0552.html
Tomorrow 09/17 NH will try to pass a bill to allow bitcoins to be used
as a form of payment for taxes in the state. If you live in NH you can
help by emailing them with your opinion. Link on comments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l9fhi/tomorrow_im_testifying_in_favor_of_new_hampshire/
http://blog.lbry.io/testimony-to-subcommittee-on-hb552-to-legalize-bitcoin-for-payments-of-taxes-and-fees/
Tomorrow I'm Testifying in Favor of New Hampshire Accepting Bitcoin
for Taxes and Fees




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 11:06:11 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:06:11 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] Torrents real-time and dynamic blocklist
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-cm3pqdz-DWNstgy3LHMoNs__f_YMobjLZHDreqvbQFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55FA9165.5010909@gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-cm3pqdz-DWNstgy3LHMoNs__f_YMobjLZHDreqvbQFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28HMMH-EbfEfz93MEBm=_YN=w85kijo7e-z95yDGaFdbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 6:09 AM, Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric at gmail.com> wrote:
> Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
> There is an annual fee to access the blocklist in order to finance this
> work, make it evolve and finance our other privacy oriented projects.
> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com/

Note that every post by this user advertises their own
system / application of "torrenting". I say nothing more
than that, do your own research.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 11:15:16 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:15:16 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] WashPo: Leaked NSC Memo on Encryption
In-Reply-To: <E1ZcNE7-0000H5-Vx@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZcNE7-0000H5-Vx@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28pYnfLaQkC6XhZZRjCy_XCagcqA2v2ow8MFgBO-F=0Ug@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Henry Baker <hbaker1 at pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:38 PM
Subject: [Cryptography] WashPo: Leaked NSC Memo on Encryption
To: cryptography at metzdowd.com


FYI --

This is my OCR'd version of the National Security Council memo leaked
to the Washington Post and available at the link below.  The pdf of
the original looks like it was typed on a *manual* typewriter -- the
NSC clearly following the lead of Russia to avoid being intercepted
electronically!  [The irony of the NSC using a manual typewriter for a
memo on encryption is truly delicious!]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks

The most distressing part of this memo is its obscene disregard for
the Constitution.  The only "stakeholders" -- according to this NSC
memo -- in favor of "civil liberties" and "human rights" seem to be
organizations -- e.g., the EFF and the ACLU; ordinary citizens are
apparently not "stakeholders", and have no "stake" in this discussion.

Of course, every time someone uses the term "stakeholder", the only
images that come to mind are those scenes from black-and-white horror
movies in which the townspeople are chasing a vampire with wooden
stakes that they intend to drive through his heart!

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-nsc-draft-options-paper-on-strategic-approaches-to-encryption/1742/

REVIEW OF STRATEGIC APPROACHES

Option 1: Disavow Legislation and Other Compulsory Actions

Engagement Strategy and timeline

Z September: Outreach to foreign allies to signal our strong
resistance to efforts to compel access; outreach to U.S. industry, the
technology community, and civil society to coordinate messaging;
attempt to convince other allies to come out with a similar statement
at the same time.

Z October: The President issues a statement strongly disavowing
legislation or other efforts to compel access and calling on U.S.
industry to resist efforts by other nations to compel access;
coordinated industry and civil society statements of support;
coordinated foreign partner statements of agreement.

Z November: Outreach to other governments to bring more allies in
alignment with our position; outreach to U.S. industry to build
voluntary cooperation in the absence of compulsion; host public
discussions and debates on encryption policy with U.S. industry and
foreign allies.

Top Line Message

Z The problem of criminals using strong encryption to frustrate law
enforcement's information gathering is a real and growing problem but
we have not found a secure, practical solution.

Z People around the world rely on the security of U.S. products and
services in their daily lives.  Mandating the design of those systems
to include known vulnerabilities makes all of us less safe and
undermines trust in these digital services.

Z It is critical that law enforcement be able to access the
information that it needs to protect public safety and national
security.  We will continue to use all of the tools available to us
lawfully to keep American citizens safe.

Z Overall, the benefits to privacy, civil libertine, and cybersecurity
gained from encryption outweigh the broader risks that would have been
created by weakening encryption.

Z Accordingly, the Administration will not seek legislation that
compels providers to design their products to enable government access
to encrypted information, even pursuant to lawful process.

Z We expect that foreign governments will also take a hard look at
this difficult issue, and hope that they will come to the same
conclusion.  We call on U.S. industry to resist efforts by other
governments to mandate such access.

Impact on Policy Equities

Public Safety and National Security.  In the near term, this approach
would not provide any relief to law enforcement efforts to counter the
increasing use of encryption by criminals, including terrorists.  As a
result, the public safety drawbacks would be significant, though the
precise extent of the drawback versus other proposals is unclear
because bad actors will increasingly be able to frustrate law
enforcement efforts to access their communications through lawful
process.  This approach would remove technology companies' most
consistent grievance with the Administration, which could improve
cooperation across a range of important priorities on technology
issues including, but not limited to, encryption.  It may also foster
better cooperation on information that is not encrypted and will not
fracture the Internet products and services market which may also
preserve better access to unencrypted information, thus aiding public
safety/national security.

Cybersecurity.  Pro-encryption statements from the government could
also encourage broader use of encryption, which would also benefit
global cybersecurity.  Further, because any new access point to
encrypted data increases risk, eschewing mandated technical changes
ensures the greatest technical security.  At the same time, the
increased use of encryption could stymie law enforcement's ability to
investigate and prosecute cybercriminals, though the extent of this
threat over any other option is unclear as sophisticated criminals
will use inaccessible encryption.

Economic Competitiveness.  This approach could help undercut foreign
competitors' criticisms that U.S. companies' products are instruments
of U.S. mass surveillance, and would clearly differentiate U.S. policy
from moves by China and others to mandate decryption.  However, if
other markets do not follow our lead, and instead demand access, it is
more difficult to assess the impact of this approach.  On the one
hand, U.S. companies could be forced to avoid those markets or develop
access solutions.  On the other, the failure of some nations to follow
the U.S. lead could bolster the reputation of the United States as a
leading source of technically secure products and.  services.

Civil Liberties and Human Rights.  Domestically, many privacy and
civil liberties advocates would regard this approach as a significant
step in defense of privacy and free expression around the world.  If
other nations follow our lead or companies successfully resist country
demands, this approach could limit repressive regimes' willingness to
demand access to encrypted information, which likely would help
protect dissidents and other communities in danger of human rights
violations.

Likely Reaction of Key Stakeholders

Industry and Civil Society.  This sector would strongly support this approach.

Other Governments.  Likely to be divided.  This position would
contradict the stated policy of some allies (e.g., the United Kingdom,
France, and the Netherlands) who argue that governments should not
allow “safe spaces” for extremists.  As a result, those allies could
criticize the U.S. position as endangering the safety of their
citizens.  Other foreign partners that are strong advocates for free
expression online and have not argued for government access to
encrypted information (e.g., Germany and Estonia) are more likely to
support this approach.

Pros

Z Some in industry have indicated that a strong statement disavowing
legislation is a precondition to voluntary cooperation with the United
States Government.  Since the prospects of legislation are dim, this
approach could help build cooperation without limiting broader policy
options.

Z Counters the narrative that the United States is seeking to expand
its surveillance capability at the expense of cybersecurity, and could
help repair trust in the United States Government and U.S. companies
overseas.

Z A strong statement from the United States could make it more
difficult for authoritarian regimes to seek compulsory legislation,
although working group participants are divided on whether adopting
this approach would actually stop such calls.

Z May weaken future calls for data localization since it will be
harder for other countries to claim they are “protecting” their
citizens' data from the United States.

Z Could provide some positive benefit for U.S. negotiations on the
U.S.-EU Data Protection and Privacy Agreement, Safe Harbor, and
Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership.

Z Is the strongest option for cybersecurity, economic competitiveness
and civil liberties and human rights.

Cons

Z This approach provides no immediate solution to the challenges that
the expanding use of encryption poses to law enforcement and national
security today and is the weakest option from that perspective.

Z Some working group participants argue this approach would remove a
key point of leverage -- the threat of legislation in our negotiations
with industry (although few, if any, in industry likely find this
threat to be credible).

Z U.S. providers have not indicated they would be willing to
voluntarily modify their systems to enable law enforcement access to
encrypted information, even if the government were to eschew
legislation, and could result in the United States being isolated in
its position.

Option 2: Defer on Legislation and Other Compulsory Actions

This option could be pursued with two distinct goals in mind.  Under
option 2(a), the Administration would seek industry's voluntary
assistance to modify their technology to address law enforcement's
concerns.  Under option 2(b), the Administration would accept the
current status quo and not seek technical modifications, but would
still ask providers to assist law enforcement in any way that they can
within their current technological framework.  In either case, these
calls for assistance could be done publicly or privately, depending on
the preferred engagement framework.

Engagement Strategy and Timeline

Z September: Outreach to foreign allies to assess their positions;
signal to allies that the United States does not think legislation is
the right way forward at this time; work with other governments to
identify voluntary action by industry that would help to mitigate
their concerns; outreach to U.S. industry to coordinate messaging.

Z October: The President issues a statement disavowing legislation,
but acknowledges the serious challenges posed by encryption for public
safety and national security; secure coordinated statements of support
or agreement from industry, civil society, and partner nations.

Z October-November: Outreach to foreign allies in the wake of the
statement to bring more allies in alignment with our position;
outreach to U.S. industry to build voluntary cooperation in the
absence of compulsion; if some allies persist in demanding access,
consider whether the United States Government should highlight the
difference in positions and the U.S. emphasis on privacy-protections.

Z Post-November: Host public discussions on encryption policy with
U.S. industry and foreign allies; should foreign allies demand and
secure access, consider whether to call upon U.S. industry to provide
the same access to the United States Government.

Top Line Message

Z The United States is not seeking legislation at this time to compel
providers to change their products to enable government access to
encrypted information pursuant to lawful process.

Z At this point, legislation appears neither feasible or easily
draftable.  We need considerable public discussion before we would be
in position to contemplate a legislative solution.

Z However, we also cannot ignore the barriers that inaccessible
encryption can create to law enforcement's critical need to
investigate and prosecute criminals, including terrorists -- and the
threat these barriers create for public safety.

Impact on Policy Equities

Public Safety and National Security.  Does not reverse the long- term
trend of increasing use of encrypted technologies by criminals, but
could open potential avenues for cooperation with industry, without
removing all law enforcement leverage (although working group
participants disagree on whether calling for legislation will provide
meaningful leverage).  Some working group participants, however, have
indicated they think it unlikely that industry will be willing to
voluntarily modify their technology -- even if the threat of
legislation is removed.  This suggests that Option 2(a), in which the
Administration would seek such technical modifications, is unlikely to
succeed.  However, unlike option 1, it retains flexibility on the
approach should the public safety picture deteriorate to overtake
competing equities.  This approach would also make compromise with
foreign governments not currently seeking legislation easier, but
would still provide some help in resisting attempts by
 governments like China to use encryption policies to skew markets or
oppress citizens by retaining strong public statements (e.g., “will
not seek legislation”).

Cybersecurity.  Could encourage the use of more encryption, which
would likely be good for cybersecurity.  If a statement under this
approach is perceived as positive but not sufficiently strong,
however, this could be less successful in forestalling other nations
from pursuing encryption-weakening measures.  Also, because any access
point to encrypted data increases risk, if government efforts to
secure access are successful, this approach would reduce
cybersecurity.  However, the degree of impact on cybersecurity would
vary significantly, and could be great or small, depending on the
specific policy and technical decisions.

Economic Competitiveness.  Could have a positive, though incomplete,
effect in removing barriers to Administration engagement with the tech
sector on this issue.  Removing the prospect of United States
Government calls for legislation would likely have positive effects on
international competitiveness.  If long-term successful in gaining
government access, this option would significantly harm economic
competitiveness though the harm might be somewhat mitigated if there
was broad international success in getting government access.

Civil Liberties and Human Rights.  Some will be dissatisfied with lack
of outright disavowal, but may appreciate the pragmatic recognition of
the practical limitations of a mandated approach.  However, others
almost certainly will continue to have concerns about government
access to encrypted information being used to suppress dissident
populations.  Should some companies cooperate voluntarily and enable
government access, the United States Government will need to accept
that other nations -- including some repressive ones -- will use this
access as well.

Likely Reaction of Key Stakeholders

Industry and Civil Society.  Although industry and civil society may
be less positive to this approach than a hardline disavowal, those
communities would likely see this outcome as a solid win.  However,
further government pressure on industry to build access into their
products would likely generate negative reactions.  Therefore, it is
likely that Industry and Civil Society would have a much better
reaction to Option 2(b), which does not seek technical modifications,
than to Option 2(a), which does.

Other Governments.  Allied governments that prefer an access regime
may push back on the core U.S. message.  However, those governments
likely would react more positively to this approach than a complete
disavowal of government access to encrypted information.

Pros

Z Responds to a key ask from industry, although industry might prefer
a stronger statement.  To the extent that industry is satisfied with
the strength of the statement, this approach could help build
cooperation without limiting broader policy options.

Z Could help counter the narrative that the United States is seeking
to expand its surveillance capability, and help repair trust in the
United States and U.S. companies overseas.

Z Could allow the United States to serve as a broker between
pro-access allies (e.g., United Kingdom, France, and the Netherlands),
and U.S. industry, which could mitigate some demands from foreign
partners and ensure U.S. companies do not have to build multiple
access regimes.

Z If long-term successful in gaining government access, this option
would help public safety and national security.

Cons

Z Could lead to disparate approaches by governments to the encryption
issue, leading to more or different compliance regimes that U.S.
companies will need to comply with, which could have a negative effect
on their economic competitiveness.

Z Does not provide an immediate solution to the challenges that the
expanding use of encryption poses to law enforcement.  Without a
disavowal of legislation, many U.S. technology companies in the long
term likely will not pursue voluntary design changes in products and
services to enable access for law enforcement.

Z If long-term successful in gaining government access, this option
would harm cybersecurity, economic competitiveness and civil liberties
and human rights.

Option 3: Remain Undecided on Legislation or Other Compulsory Actions

Engagement Strategy and Timeline

Z September: Outreach to foreign allies to assess their positions;
Private outreach to key industry leaders to argue that we need a more
fulsome policy discussion before we decide how to proceed.

Z October: Organize or participate in closed-door, small group
discussions with U.S. industry to facilitate a more in-depth policy
discussion.  At the same time, organize bilateral and multilateral
conversations with foreign partners to discuss the challenges and how
to proceed.

Z November: High-level Administration statement highlights initial
discussions, outlines key challenges, distills a few key questions and
principals, and announces a meeting or series of meetings (potentially
both domestic and international) to discuss and debate these key
questions.

Z December: After the discussions, reassess our position and determine
whether to take a position on encryption legislation or to continue to
call for discussion.

Top Line Message

Z The President has said that there is no situation in which you
wouldn't want strong encryption.

Z At the same time, there are situations in which the government
cannot obtain information related to a specific potential national
security threat.  If there is not a way of accessing that information
and protecting the American public, then the Administration believes
need to have a public debate.

Z Having a broad discussion about this is essential -- over the next
several months, [we or several entities] will host discussions on the
challenges posed by encryption and how we can best address them.  I
would urge everyone to participate.

Impact on Policy Equities

Public Safety and National Security.  This approach has, to date,
failed to incentivize cooperation with law enforcement.  It could in
the long-term sway public opinion to create greater responsiveness --
particularly while the government retains the leverage resulting from
the threat of legislation.  On the other hand, silence on our part
could encourage foreign governments to control the agenda.  They might
pressure U.S. industry to provide lawful access, which, if successful,
would make it easier for us to require similar accommodations.  This
approach could also encourage companies to continue to aggressively
pursue developing inaccessible encrypted services, and could make
future cooperation significantly more challenging.  Therefore, it is
hard to predict the impact that this approach would have on public
safety.

Cybersecurity.  Although it would not actively conflict with our
message on the importance of encryption to cybersecurity, the
uncertainty of public perceptions about the government's position
could perpetuate distrust in encryption technologies related to the
United States Government, and could undermine the effectiveness of the
National Institute of Standards and Technology and other entities at a
time when our cybersecurity agenda is already at risk.  If long-term
successful in gaining government access, this option would harm
cybersecurity.  -

Economic Competitiveness.  This approach does little to counter
current distrust of the government by industry or foreign competitors.
Further, by not taking a position on legislation in either direction,
this approach does little to shape the reactions of other governments,
increasing the risk that they will splinter into multiple camps,
presenting U.S. industry with fractured markets.  Therefore, this
approach is likely harmful for economic competitiveness.

Civil Liberties and Human Rights.  Because this approach would likely
not stop -- and could encourage -- other nations from demanding
access, it is likely harmful for the Administration's efforts on civil
liberties.

Likely Reaction of Key Stakeholders

Industry/Civil Society.  Will likely continue to strongly object until
the United States Government explicitly eschews compulsory
legislation.  As time passes, if we continue to fail to take a
position, industry and civil society positions will likely harden as
people perceive our silence as an implicit endorsement of legislation.
As a result, the United States Government risks losing credibility if
it fails to participate robustly in a public debate and with a unified
voice.  There is also a risk that industry chooses not to participate
in meetings on the subject and escalates lobbying and public relations
efforts.

Other Governments.  Allied governments that seek access will prefer
this approach to either of the approaches that come out against
compulsory legislation, and will likely see this as an opportunity for
them to press for legislation themselves.

Pros

Z Provides flexibility to course correct and negotiate with U.S.
industry and our foreign allies.

Z Retains a key negotiating chip (the threat of legislation) in our
engagement with industry (although few, if any, in industry find this
threat credible).

Z If other governments call for legislation and/or compel companies to
change their encryption solutions to enable better access in the
meantime, this could provide us with cover to use that same access.

Cons

Z Delays establishing a coherent Administration position, which could
result in: (1) the United States being portrayed as increasingly
ineffective/unable to resolve this challenge; (2) disputes among
departments and agencies bleeding out into public discussion; (3) U.S.
industry continuing to have challenges operating overseas (although it
is unclear that a pro-encryption statement would by itself address
this challenge); and (4) public and foreign government positions may
harden in the absence of an affirmative U.S. position, limiting our
ability to influence the global debate.

Z Does not provide an immediate solution to the challenges that the
expanding use of encryption poses to law enforcement.  Moreover, this
approach does not resolve the current policy debate.  The United
States Government likely will be faced with this same discussion again
in several months' time.

_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptography at metzdowd.com
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Sep 17 06:19:28 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:19:28 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-oqQM1EmQOrtbjrFOx37Q4nj=MbrufWNeyc1vXsviLeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9a19a1c1-064e-4946-a704-1a8c8a676228@googlegroups.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPWQOYxDf_iADyimt2_H5qocAyMz8GYwmCSpQEPLujhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu> <20150916123315.GE2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti2-oqQM1EmQOrtbjrFOx37Q4nj=MbrufWNeyc1vXsviLeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55FABDE0.8020401@cathalgarvey.me>

The governing party in Germany is called the Christian Democrats. If 
Religion is some sort of nasty contagion that needs to be stamped out, 
Germany's got bigger problems than some desperate immigrants.

Religion isn't a nasty contagion, btw. Assholes are, and they're all 
over the place, religion or no. Just look at the bullshit racism in this 
thread; anyone see religious inspiration to that? Not so far from me, 
just regular ole' secular race/religion hate. Nothing new there.

Maybe, just maybe, "National Identity"/"Racial and Cultural Strength" is 
a load of bullshit, and far more of a threat to human flourishing than 
believing in usually-benevolent Sky Gods.

On 17/09/15 05:59, grarpamp wrote:
>>> defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
>
> Does 3000 case per 10M prevalance of ebola warrant response?
> Is not religion [viewed as] infectious highly incurable / offensive disease?
> What is the burden on social bootstrap / welfare systems?
> These are some of the contexts in which they are thinking.
> In addition to their fanatical control freakery and head in sand
> of closed borders. You probably can rightfully protect yourself
> as a soverign, so long as your walls don't prevent those within
> from leaving.
>
> [spent: 1 non cypher posting credit]
>

-- 
Scientific Director, IndieBio EU Programme
  Now running in Cork, Ireland May->July
  Learn more at indie.bio and follow along!
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: cathalgarvey




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Sep 17 04:20:55 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:20:55 +0300
Subject: JYA and Cryptome Passphrase Are Secure
In-Reply-To: <E1ZcX60-0005Ya-Rm@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZcX60-0005Ya-Rm@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150917112055.GB5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 07:12:29AM -0400, John Young wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> JYA and Cryptome passphrases are secure. Plaintext discovered
> not related to Cryptome, with alternative to decrypt: original not
> scrubbed.
>

Would you bet your life on this?

Secure to ``thermal'' cryptoanalysis?

This header, unless spoofed on purpose:

X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9

suggests at least m$ and the nsa can easily
obtain your passphrases...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 11:41:19 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:41:19 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] An Open Source Analysis of NSA Cryptologic
 Capabilities
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i2n+PPq+vvMdJL+wbRujxUmDdrRFpBAXiT_kMrMtfccMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i2n+PPq+vvMdJL+wbRujxUmDdrRFpBAXiT_kMrMtfccMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-SSq=57kW_65WTi3D7PwKN4pq0S_piSYHbegGH1CdbHw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 5:27 PM
Subject: [Cryptography] An Open Source Analysis of NSA Cryptologic Capabilities
To: cryptography at metzdowd.com


Timeline of Events of Note

1992 - DES is broken cryptanalytically, although with an attack
greater than the birthday bound
1993 - SHA released, based on MD4/MD5
1995 - SHA-1 revised, original SHA now called SHA-0
1998 - Skipjack Released
1999 - Impossible Differential Analysis breaks 31 of 32 rounds
2001 - SHA-2 released, by Threefish's standards, a 256-round hash function
2005 - SHA-1 is broken by a non-practical attack, spurs SHA-3 competition
2010 - Xie and Feng announce a one block collision on MD5, which they
cannot release for _security reasons._

The occasional cryptanalytic success implies that the NSA is generally
more advanced, but not always. Cryptanalytic success seems to be a
random process, but it requires previous successes to exist. The NSA
seems to be more advanced than the Chinese, and the Chinese vaguely
more advanced than the remaining cryptographic community. This can
probably be attributed to the fact that the NSA has more money, has
the support of other SIGINT agencies in cryptanalysis, and thus
probably have half the world's mathematicians. Thus perhaps the NSA
has a 42% chance of getting a genuinely new cryptanalytic success, the
Chinese a 33%, and the rest of the world a 25% chance.

The evidence to support such a claim is that impossible differential
analysis nearly broke Skipjack, although maybe the NSA was aware of it
and had less concerns about security margins than we think. Further
attacks on SHA-1 and SHA-2 spurred the SHA-3 competition. While it was
reasonable for the civilian cryptographic community to be concerned,
the fact that the NSA was concerned is telling. It was a result they
did not predict, and they possibly thought further cryptanalysis could
break those two hash functions.

Fortunately there is a large body of research on the cost efficiency
of research programs. While one may conclude that the NSA must
perpetually be making leaps and bounds ahead of everyone through the
virtues of compound interest, the answer is pleasanter. There is a
diseconomy of scale when it comes to research. For instance, the Moon
program or the Manhattan project could have been cheaper if more time
was allotted for its completion.  Given that the nature of research
changes over time as the easiest results are exhausted, and that large
organizations do have waste, it is safe to say that any gap between
NSA and civilian cryptography will shrink by a small extent, year over
year.

_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptography at metzdowd.com
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:00:46 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:00:46 -0400
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <55F98132.5010305@gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com> <55F98132.5010305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29s7eWL2Ggdqf0iW=MES_AorQXNLfxSz5seof1HjfxzBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Quoting a tweet from Joanna if Invisible Things Lab, on the topic of
> older hardware (than Purism's current choice):
>
> https://twitter.com/rootkovska/status/643414071514148864
>
> "and old systems do not have IOMMU (VT-d) which makes them even less
> secure, trustworthy."

Question this in regards to number of gates available / needed
for secret malefactor vs gatecount timeline vs time at which govt
agencies and corp might desire and begin to cooperate or
independantly perform same.
ie: Are your your 486 or p55c and chipsets likely to contain malware?
What about your Skylake?
Given how ATT / Verizon / Sprint and others totally rolled over for
Bush/911 what makes you think Intel or AMD or Microsoft are
any different?
WTF is up with windows 10? As if 7 vista and xp and Ubuntu
Linux weren't enough.

search: AnandTech, Intel has now stopped quoting gatecount with Skylake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 11:06:31 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:06:31 -0300
Subject: US New Hampshire Needs Help Accepting Bitcoin For Taxes
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29shax9n_sPsik9-br3tr2E279zpcaTD=TYiQak9D=fRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29shax9n_sPsik9-br3tr2E279zpcaTD=TYiQak9D=fRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55fb0017.f2518c0a.9641c.ffff8066@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 13:54:00 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l9cpq/tomorrow_0917_nh_will_try_to_pass_a_bill_to_allow/
> http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/committees/billtext.aspx?billnumber=HB0552.html

> Tomorrow 09/17 NH will try to pass a bill to allow bitcoins to be used
> as a form of payment for taxes in the state.

	self-parody at its very best




From cmagistrado at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 15:11:22 2015
From: cmagistrado at gmail.com (Chris Magistrado)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:11:22 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library (grarpamp)
Message-ID: <CAO17207SRvvgWLBcCyDT+6cCjm+1i0h86qOYcnuoMiPqN2869w@mail.gmail.com>

Very happy to have read this in this mailing list.
This is a great with for Kilton, and I hope to get Tor Relays in SF Library.
Though DPR being caught there might make it a bit more difficult...

But I can't keep up with all these articles on mailing lists as efficiently
as I'd like to.
Does anyone know of a tool that makes reading mailing lists easier?
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:02:31 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 16:02:31 -0700
Subject: Linux Foundation' Linux workstation security checklist
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29s7eWL2Ggdqf0iW=MES_AorQXNLfxSz5seof1HjfxzBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150831111344.GA2558@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55E4B7A2.1090907@gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RUUdzgO61HCuYvfyK6+05T=2FTyhSUBAw6G8n-AOvhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55E5C79D.3060305@gmail.com> <55F98132.5010305@gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti29s7eWL2Ggdqf0iW=MES_AorQXNLfxSz5seof1HjfxzBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55FB4687.1090405@gmail.com>

On 09/17/2015 12:00 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Quoting a tweet from Joanna if Invisible Things Lab, on the topic of
>> older hardware (than Purism's current choice):
>>
>> https://twitter.com/rootkovska/status/643414071514148864
>>
>> "and old systems do not have IOMMU (VT-d) which makes them even less
>> secure, trustworthy."
>
> Question this in regards to number of gates available / needed
> for secret malefactor vs gatecount timeline vs time at which govt
> agencies and corp might desire and begin to cooperate or
> independantly perform same.
> ie: Are your your 486 or p55c and chipsets likely to contain malware?
> What about your Skylake?
> Given how ATT / Verizon / Sprint and others totally rolled over for
> Bush/911 what makes you think Intel or AMD or Microsoft are
> any different?
> WTF is up with windows 10? As if 7 vista and xp and Ubuntu
> Linux weren't enough.
>
> search: AnandTech, Intel has now stopped quoting gatecount with Skylake.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY

Not trying to dis old refurbished x86s. Just pointing out a specific
area to investigate w/r/t older x86 hardware. Joanna's tweet was one
specfic case to look into. Pre-CHIPSEC, it is less clear to me.  I wish
I had a complete list of issues (i.e., the set of things to write for a
CHIPSEC test profile for that hardware).

Old Thinkpads are great, but a LIMITED resource, we can't just rely on
old hardware forever.

I wonder if Cyrix/Via/Transmeta/etc clones are also viable to be
refurbished by Ministry of Freedom, and have any chance of being secure?
I also wonder about MIPS and SunSPARC chips, they have some old boxes to
refurbish, as well as some new MIPS boxes (a recent Chinese one not only
runs MIPS but also x86 and ARM instructions!).

If I were to hold out hope for an ISA that might be trustworthy, it
would be the RISC-V. But that'll take a year or longer. The Raven3 board
just came out, shown at HotChips. I hope that's the chip that Purism
uses for their next laptop, along with the recent Open Hardware GPU,
also announced at HotChips. Until then, I can update my own firmware on
my ARM dev boards, and -- sans FSP blobs -- on Intel dev boards. And I
have an ancient -- i.e., unknown security profile --- x86 with
Libreboot. Wish Libreboot used coreboot's Verifed Boot, for a bit more
protection, but that can be patched.

Not sure about Win10. I've heard they have a freeware version, which is
ad-sponsored, which must be be fun. Ubuntu, or as a friend of mine calls
them, "Spybuntu", has been abusing privacy for years. I wouldn't ever
trust an OS which is run by a single company. Debian isn't run by a
single company. It isn't perfect, but has fewer than most. Does anyone
have any opinion of Mempo, compared to QubesOS? I haven't used it yet,
but it looks interesting. Qubes is great for Intel systems, but what
about non-Intel, eg, ARM, does their isolation tech scale to non-Intel
ISAs? If not, what OS should ARM users use? (Purism recently tweeted
that they're going to get their PureOS to use parts of QubesOS.

I don't presume to have a trustworthy or secure firmware, on any Intel
box, perhaps AMD box, maybe ARM boxes. (The latter two seem to have less
security research than Intel x86/x64 systems, if anyone has good
pointers to ARM/AMD and other modern non-Intel HW, please speak up.)
Eg: http://timeglider.com/timeline/5ca2daa6078caaf4
Or see last slide of most CHIPSEC or LebaCore talks, they have a good
bibilography.

Thanks.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:40:27 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 19:40:27 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] FBI: Weaker Encryption Is a Worthwhile Tradeoff
 for Law Enforcement Access to Data
In-Reply-To: <E1Zccnt-0006qn-06@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1Zccnt-0006qn-06@elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28EA1S=WDVFbLQs3azf=0cmkRb3FuTeFoszr4sj2oXsQw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Henry Baker <hbaker1 at pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 1:15 PM
Subject: [Cryptography] FBI: Weaker Encryption Is a Worthwhile
Tradeoff for Law Enforcement Access to Data
To: cryptography at metzdowd.com


FYI -- Easy for the FBI to say; they're not on the hook for
potentially billions in damages from any breach.  (Leaving aside the
egregious Constitutional violations.)

http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/72407/fbi-weaker-encryption-is-worthwhile-tradeoff-law-enforcement-access-data

FBI: Weaker Encryption Is a Worthwhile Tradeoff for Law Enforcement
Access to Data

Government officials sparred with privacy advocates over encryption,
but acknowledged that “back doors” come with risks of intrusion.

Kaveh Waddell @kavehewaddell

September 15, 2015

The Justice Department and the FBI are continuing their campaign to
convince the tech community and the public that weakening encryption
to allow law enforcement to access encrypted communications and data
has its risks, but that the drawbacks are outweighed by the security
advantages.

Amy Hess, the executive assistant director of FBI’s science and
technology branch, said at a Christian Science Monitor discussion that
allowing access to encrypted messages to anyone other than the sender
or the receiver comes with “some risk” of intrusion.  But because law
enforcement must be able to read encrypted data and communication to
do its job, the risk of third-party access is acceptable, Hess said,
as long as it is minimized.

The Justice Department—-and especially the FBI—-has clashed with the
technology community over the agency’s demands that online platforms
stay away from encryption practices that keep data private even from
the platforms themselves.  If the communications service cannot access
the data sent across its servers, it cannot turn the data over to law
enforcement.

Law enforcement has called on tech companies to take the lead in
developing an encryption standard that is both secure and accessible
to authorities upon request.  Last week, FBI Director James Comey said
technology experts just need to “try harder” to find a solution.

But experts maintain that such a standard is impossible to achieve,
because any third-party key for unlocking encrypted data—-even if
reserved for extreme circumstances—-will be vulnerable to hackers.

A company that builds vulnerabilities into its encryption becomes an
attractive target of attack to foreign governments, criminal hackers,
and “drooling teenagers in basements,” said Matt Blaze, a noted
cryptography expert and professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

Because companies are increasingly turning to stronger encryption, the
FBI is running out of tools to fight crime, Hess said Tuesday.  A
request for a wiretap—-one of the most powerful surveillance tools
available to the FBI—-is a long and complicated process that requires
an agent to supply an extensive affidavit stating that every
less-intrusive method of surveillance had already been considered or
applied, according to Kiran Raj, Senior Counsel to the Deputy Attorney
General.

But Hess said FBI agents will not apply for wiretaps if they think a
suspect is using encrypted communication, because they are not willing
to expend the time and cost of crafting the request if the odds of its
success are slim.

The FBI’s claim was largely met with a shrug from privacy advocates.

“A warrant is not a right that the government has to get data,” said
Jon Callas, CEO of Silent Circle, a company that builds encrypted
communications platforms.  “It is a right to perform a search, to
attempt to get the data, and there may be a lot of reasons why it
can’t get to it.”

But even as privacy advocates clashed with law enforcement officials
onstage over the form encryption should take in the tech community,
the groups said they both have the same objective—security—in mind.

“The polarization of this debate is really harmful,” Blaze said.  “I
think that in terms of the end goals, there’s a lot more common ground
here than maybe the debate lets on.”

_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptography at metzdowd.com
http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 18:09:34 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 21:09:34 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] victory at kilton library (grarpamp)
In-Reply-To: <CAO17207SRvvgWLBcCyDT+6cCjm+1i0h86qOYcnuoMiPqN2869w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO17207SRvvgWLBcCyDT+6cCjm+1i0h86qOYcnuoMiPqN2869w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29PqU0m3DPL53iGpvXPhrkgEvaCQrJgUk47GHO0OAGd=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Chris Magistrado <cmagistrado at gmail.com> wrote:
> But I can't keep up with all these articles on mailing lists as efficiently
> as I'd like to.
> Does anyone know of a tool that makes reading mailing lists easier?

Anything is better than the webmail offered by mail providers.
After that, there are any number of standalone MUA choices.
Here's three...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Thunderbird
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigmail

https://www.mailpile.is/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)
http://kzak.redcrew.org/doku.php?id=mutt:start
http://msmtp.sourceforge.net/
http://www.fetchmail.info/
http://www.courier-mta.org/maildrop/
https://gnupg.org/

You might need a Unix OS to go with whichever MUA you find...

http://www.freebsd.org/
https://www.archlinux.org/
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Comparison_with_Others




From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 21:45:57 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 21:45:57 -0700
Subject: key management is the crux
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SnSas=qgWjsJKCCUjdBJB9xRvEbmNXm_a=ZnBRbWSr1g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/17/15, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> Key management is hard.


just get straight to it, and study the key management.

tells you all you need to know about a product!

;P




best regards,




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 17 13:55:42 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 22:55:42 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150915102332.GC2679@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu> <20150915102332.GC2679@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1984452.lNELK5JUQk@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 15 września 2015 13:23:32 piszesz:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard
> > to
> > defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> > hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly
> > a real threat?
> > 
> > [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
> 
> Dude, trolling with numbers borders with numerology
> {AKA "number theory" ;) }.
> (...)
> UP TO ONE MEEELLION :P

Sure. That's less than 0,20%, or less than 2-tenths of a percent. My point 
about how weak some perceive "their culture" to be still stands.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 17 13:55:58 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 22:55:58 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu> <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 15:52:39 piszesz:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:22:59AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > Are we really to say that our culture is so weak, so vulnerable, so hard
> > to
> > defend that an influx of immigrants that amounts to 0,03% (yes, three-
> > hundredths of a percent!)[1] of the whole population of the EU is suddenly
> > a real threat?
> > 
> > [1] estimated 160 000 immigrants, estimated 508 million EU citizens
> 
> First a joke:
> 
> "statistician tried to cross a river of average depth 0.5m and got
> drowned".
> 
> May I ask what percentage of the EU are street policeman (not counting
> burocrats) to "protect" the sheeple?

Protect from what, exactly?
 
> ...And what if half of the 0.03% were armed turrorists?

Seriously, are we going in that direction now? Okay, how about this: what if 
exactly 2 of these immigrants were armed turrists?

You can pull numbers from your ass, so can I. When you want to get back to a 
more serious discussion, do tell.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 17 16:04:15 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 01:04:15 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu> <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 17 września 2015 13:05:49 James A. Donald pisze:
> The fact that Russia is being subverted by the USA, that the USA is
> attempting to overthrow the Russian government, does make that
> government's efforts to defend itself and its people against foreign
> influence OK.

See, I was juuuuust about to start arguing with you, but then...

> McCarthy was right to defend the US against Soviet influence, and Putin
> is right to defend Russia against US influence.

...this happened. Are you saying Putin's crackdown on "foreign agents"[1] is 
as reasonable, well-funded and justified as mccarthyism was? Well, can't argue 
with that!

I guess I'll call Poe's Law[2] and call it a day.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 23:48:38 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:48:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28bGuDWa+u7JvCYtVkOoi1q4UQ3tfAqpqs2vayNVhUCZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28bGuDWa+u7JvCYtVkOoi1q4UQ3tfAqpqs2vayNVhUCZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <807112912.69552.1442558918651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
>Some ballyhoo about rowhammer was like "look we can flip

>a single bit and get root". Obviously if you're going for
>multibit carnage ECC doesn't help much.
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_code

Again, I must disagree.  Rowhammer errors are, presumably, exceedingly rare.  But when they do occur, one-bit errors are probably millions of times more common than two-bit errors, which are themselves going too be millions of times more common than three bit errors..  But ECC accesses will automatically correct all one-bit errors, and detect all two-bit errors, and will either log only the 2-bit errors or both single and double-bit errors.  I won't try the math, but I suspect that the vast majority of three-bit errors (for 64-bit words) are also detected.   Wikipedia says   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory#Errors%5Fand%5Ferror%5Fcorrection  , "Parity allows the detection of all single-bit errors (actually, any odd number of wrong bits)".    So, the smallest number of error bits that might not be detected would be four.
 Since any serious rowhammer attack will generate millions of correctable single-bit and uncorrectable double- and triple-bit errors, per actual single 4-bit error, any system operator will get a huge amount of warning that the attack is underway before even as many as a single 3-bit error will appear.             Jim Bell
This came from Wikipedia:      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECC_memory

"Work published between 2007 and 2009 showed widely varying error rates with over 7 orders of magnitude difference, ranging from 10−10–10−17 error/bit·h, roughly one bit error, per hour, per gigabyte of memory to one bit error, per millennium, per gigabyte of memory.[4][5][6] A very large-scale study based on Google's very large number of servers was presented at the SIGMETRICS/Performance’09 conference.[5] The actual error rate found was several orders of magnitude higher than previous small-scale or laboratory studies, with 25,000 to 70,000 errors per billion device hours per megabit (about 2.5–7 × 10−11 error/bit·h) (i.e. about 5 single bit errors in 8 Gigabytes of RAM per hour using the top-end error rate), and more than 8% of DIMM memory modules affected by errors per year.

The consequence of a memory error is system-dependent. In systems without ECC, an error can lead either to a crash or to corruption of data; in large-scale production sites, memory errors are one of the most common hardware causes of machine crashes.[5] Memory errors can cause security vulnerabilities.[5] A memory error can have no consequences if it changes a bit which neither causes observable malfunctioning nor affects data used in calculations or saved. A 2010 simulation study showed that, for a web browser, only a small fraction of memory errors caused data corruption, although, as many memory errors are intermittent and correlated, the effects of memory errors were greater than would be expected for independent soft errors.[7]
Some tests conclude that the isolation of DRAM memory cells can be circumvented by unintended side effects of specially crafted accesses to adjacent cells. Thus, accessing data stored in DRAM causes memory cells to leak their charges and interact electrically, as a result of high cells density in modern memory, altering the content of nearby memory rows that actually were not addressed in the original memory access. This effect is known as row hammer, and it has also been used in some privilege escalation computer security exploits.[8][9]
An example of a single-bit error that would be ignored by a system with no error-checking, would halt a machine with parity checking, or would be invisibly corrected by ECC: a single bit is stuck at 1 due to a faulty chip, or becomes changed to 1 due to background or cosmic radiation; a spreadsheet storing numbers in ASCII format is loaded, and the digit "8" is stored in the byte which contains the stuck bit as its eighth bit; then a change is made to the spreadsheet and it is saved. However, the "8" (00111000 binary) has silently become a "9" (00111001)."
[end of Wikipedia quote]
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 23:54:58 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:54:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <366215956.1431616.1442559298126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:46:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:

>http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~omutlu/pub/dram-row-hammer_kim_talk_isca14.pdf
>p. 32 of the PDF:
>.– Simple ECC (e.g., SECDED) cannot prevent all errors
>From wikipedia:  Tests show that simple ECC solutions, providing
>single-error correction and double-error detection (SECDED)
>capabilities, are not able to correct or detect all observed
>disturbance errors because some of them include more than two flipped
>bits per memory word.[1]:8[11]:32
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer#cite_ref-isca14-talk_11-0

But all single-bit and triple-bit errors are detectable by parity, and so are all double-bit errors using ECC.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory#Errors%5Fand%5Ferror%5Fcorrection 

Jim Bell  
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From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Sep 18 03:57:58 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:57:58 -0400
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
Message-ID: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

18 September 2015

Key compromise is related to our architectural work on NYC No. 7
Subway Line Extension, recently opened. Project had hundreds of
designers from around the world with access to files. Security of
the project is primary and its design is not public. Extent of
subway system security and file protection is restricted to
need to know.

JYA and Cryptome passphrases remain secure. Key revocation done
for caution.

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Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build 3017)

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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 18 01:34:44 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 08:34:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2002516358.1367685.1442565284415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 08:03:54PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
>> I don't think the concept of this kind of weakness is new:  Even in 1980, DRAMs were tested for such repeated accesses, to ensure that such >>errors would not occur.  This was particularly true for a process called "device characterization", in which chips were attacked in all manner of >>electronically-abusive ways, to uncover these weaknesses, and fix the circuit design should such flaws be uncovered. One way these >>techniques could be thwarted is to return to the use of parity-bits (8+1 parity) in memory access, in DRAM module and computer design, to >>whatever extent they are no longer used.  Any (successful) attempt to modify bits in a DRAM would quickly end up causing a parity error, >>which >would at least show which manufacturer's DRAM chips are susceptible to this kind of attack.  A person who was forced to use a no->>parity >computer could, at least,  limit his purchases of such modules to those populated with DRAMs not susceptible to the problem. >> Jim Bell 

>I don't understand hardware and have some questions

>The POC appears non-deterministic per the nature of the bug.
I assume POC means "proof of concept".  Yes, the error is non-deterministic.  It arises from the fact that bits are stored as different voltages on individual capacitors in a chip, one capacitor per bit.   Think of a "0" as being zero volts, 1 is Vcc volts, where Vcc (the supply voltage to the chips) is usually 3 volts.  This represents a healthy difference, and could easily be detected.  The problem is that the chip can't have one voltage detector for each bit; usually there are about 1048 bits per voltage comparator.  When a given row needs to be read, the Row Address line activates, and those 1048 bits are each connected to their corresponding "bit line", which is a tiny electrical conductor with a capacitance much greater than that of the individual bit-cell (capacitor).  The resulting voltage difference between a "one" and a "zero" bit might be only a few tens of millivolts, which is rather small.  Then, the voltage detector amplifies the voltage difference, to restore it to either GND (0 volts) or Vcc.


>1. If I run the POC for time X and it fails, does
>this mean it will fail if I run it for time 100 X?
It's statistical.  Probably  the number of failures will be approximately proportional to the number of disturb-cycles done.

>2. Does increasing the temperature in the box
>(near or above overheating) increase the chance for>success?

Perhaps just a little.  Refreshing of an entire memory array is done once each 64 millisecond.  (Used to be 2 millisecond in the 1970s.)    It is said that many tens of seconds can elapse before any given bit is disturbed, if refresh is turned off.  There should be a lot of margin for loss of refresh, or an inadequate amount of refresh.

>3. If you have computer near you, can you induce bit
>flips on purpose remotely, without executing code on
>it? (lol, AFAICT if you wait looooong enough cosmic rays
>will this for you for free, but I am asking about
>realistic attack).
I don't think an external attack (with particles) is plausible.



  
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 00:03:42 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:03:42 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <366215956.1431616.1442559298126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150917072539.GA5722@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <366215956.1431616.1442559298126.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150918070342.GA2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 06:54:58AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
>   From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 11:46:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> >http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~omutlu/pub/dram-row-hammer_kim_talk_isca14.pdf
> >p. 32 of the PDF:
> >.– Simple ECC (e.g., SECDED) cannot prevent all errors
> >From wikipedia:  Tests show that simple ECC solutions, providing
> >single-error correction and double-error detection (SECDED)
> >capabilities, are not able to correct or detect all observed
> >disturbance errors because some of them include more than two flipped
> >bits per memory word.[1]:8[11]:32
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_hammer#cite_ref-isca14-talk_11-0
> 
> But all single-bit and triple-bit errors are detectable by parity, and so are all double-bit errors using ECC.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory#Errors%5Fand%5Ferror%5Fcorrection 
> 
> Jim Bell  

AFAICT Rowhammer (non-weaponized) publicly appeared in:
http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~yoonguk/papers/kim-isca14.pdf

Flipping Bits in Memory Without Accessing Them:
An Experimental Study of DRAM Disturbance Errors
(from 2014)

On p. 8:
Therefore, we conclude that SECDED is not failsafe against disturbance
errors.
Table 5. Uncorrectable multi-bit errors (in bold)

Consider publishing your claim as counterexample to the paper
(possibly on arxiv.org).





From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Sep 18 10:11:00 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:11:00 -0700
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150918101100.2247fdf06e49aa3b46587d1d@virtadpt.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:12:36 +0100
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> possible. Browser model, JS engine, hardware acceleration options, 
> possibly firmwares, and DRAM model/generation/clockspeed.
> No reason to be complacent, but the gist was "you probably don't need to 
> worry about rowhammer-JS".

It makes one wonder how well it works in the context of node.js, which seems to be the darling of developers the world over these days.

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"You've seen one elemental core, you've seen 'em all."

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Sep 18 10:17:33 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:17:33 -0700
Subject: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <96C0776F-22CB-4AF2-B0EF-FBC46E784730@gmail.com>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <96C0776F-22CB-4AF2-B0EF-FBC46E784730@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150918101733.4e4674cf0c6a1256bf350bda@virtadpt.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:17 -0700
Nymble <nymble at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Has anyone heard of an idea to use individual WiFi routers to communicate in a mesh net?  
> Yes .. but usually using proprietary routing or 802.11s.

Most of the projects out there are using OLSR (http://www.olsr.org/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page).  A few are using the Babel protocol (https://github.com/jech/babeld).

n.b., there is a difference between using a mesh networking protocol to distribute routes, and using IP forwarding to actually push the packets around.  The two together are required.

> > (Or, at least differently than it may have been done before.)   If you look at a map of WiFi routers (www.wigle.net) in any given area, you will see that the vast majority of routers are physically close to many other routers, certainly close enough to communicate with each other, and ultimately over a long distance.  A crowd-sourced communication system, one that

Most wireless mapping software out these doesn't see interfaces in ad-hoc mode, only infrastructure mode.  Thus, Wigle may not be the best way of mapping mesh networks in the greater context of wireless access points.

> wouldn't necessarily go through the Internet backbone.  Conceptually related to the Bittorrent system.    I just  found this:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Direct>

Wi-Fi direct is useful for short range comms.  We've had a lot of trouble making it work over longer ranges.  Wireless radios designed for use in infrastructure mode (including emitted power and duty cycle) are more reliable in the field.

> A better Wi-Fi P2P solution is: http://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware <http://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-aware> 

Another standard.  Yay.  Time to find the docs and start reading...

> It’s new, but hopefully we’ll be seeing rapid incorporation into products.  For a change, the specifications are free and worth a browse.  The P2P discovery model is intentionally blinded to a degree by the use of truncated hashes of the ‘service names’ (6 octets).  P2P data exchanges are possible pre-association (no connection overhead).  

There are other discovery models in use.  It'll be interesting to see how they compare.

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"You've seen one elemental core, you've seen 'em all."

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Sep 18 10:23:18 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:23:18 -0700
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <20150918102318.efe2be8e97806a806bb39694@virtadpt.net>

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:07:52 -0400
Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:

> A friend turned me on to this some time ago.  I have yet to set up
> any mesh networks but it does look VERY promising.
> http://hsmm-mesh.org/

It's an okay networking technology.  It's a few generations behind what we're actually fielding these days but they're using OLSR for maintaining the routing table, so that's something.  It's also hams only, so I'd advise caution if you don't have your ticket but want to experiment with it, new nodes that aren't recognized will draw a lot of attention.

One of the gotchas from their FAQ: "You can't use Wi-Fi to connect to a mesh node from your computer, netbook, smart phone or other wireless device."  Back to hardwiring.

Go Ubiquiti.  Linksys hardware is bobbins these days.

https://openwrt.org/

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"You've seen one elemental core, you've seen 'em all."

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Sep 18 10:24:33 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:24:33 -0700
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <55FA0A61.6080501@gna.org>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net> <55FA0A61.6080501@gna.org>
Message-ID: <20150918102433.c64f811937c65be4f6efa215@virtadpt.net>

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:33:37 +1200
Christian Gagneraud <chgans at gna.org> wrote:

> This might be of interest too: https://freifunk.net/en/

The Freifunk folks are good people and do good work.  It's definitely worth looking at their software and getting in touch with them.  They're also working in a much more friendly regulatory environment.

-- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"You've seen one elemental core, you've seen 'em all."

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From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 18 04:33:40 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:33:40 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=E2=80=99t_have_to=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim, I remember suggesting this to M about 5 or 6 years ago. I have
not looked into the economics of it (i.e. how Australia's national
budget could make it work) and so it was heartwarming, or at least
very interesting to me, to read the article you forwarded which had a
few (small) examples in the last century where this has been trialed -
and that in at least one example, inflation went down, not up, quite
contrary to "normal economist" expectations!

Very, very interesting. What this tells us, is that "the abundance
community" (or rather nation), can indeed work - and with robotics and
automation being spearheaded heavily this year by Japan we may well
need such a new economic model for nations in general. The fact that
it has been shown it works in at least a couple examples, is generally
great news of course.

I experience in the "free software"/"libre computing" community -
Debian GNU/Linux, RedHat/Fedora and more, and from me-as-programmer
experience, it is a world of abundance - hackers (the good ones - i.e.
those who do stuff to benefit the community) essentially have an
abundance of the raw material or tools of trade - i.e. all you need is
a computer and away you go, you can write whatever program you think
people might enjoy using - since electricity to run your computer is
close to free - add a few solar cells and it is free.

So in truth all the "information worker" needs to manifest their
creativity (besides their computer) is food and shelter - same for
musicians and certain other creative artists etc.

And since the marginal cost (incremental cost) of duplicating a
(digital) song, or computer program, is very close to zero dollars
(just download it for a tiny bit of electricity expense), then when I
give my computer program to society as free/libre software, I am
causing an exponential benefit to society, since as many people as
have computers, can benefit from my creation.

This is an "abundance economy" in action, and although I don't get
wealth in this situation where I give my computer program away, I get
credos/ ego satisfaction, recognition, esteem from my peers and or the
users of my program, and potentially a job doing something I really
enjoy (supporting users who benefit financially from my program, who
are willing to pay for some support, training, and or enhancements to
my computer program - this will normally just be the companies that
use my program - but RedHat demonstrates that it's possible to build a
billion-dollar company just supporting free software which is pretty
cool).

As long as I can do a bit of travel, have food in my belly and a warm
couple of rooms to live in, I'm basically content and happy with life,
since it is my nature to be creative (with computers) and to give away
my creations.

Regards,
Z


On 9/18/15, Jim <jim.sovereign at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> The idea of universal basic income will likely become a human rights issue
> implemented by many countries due to rising under employment and
> unemployment, caused by increased technology automation reducing the demand
> for many jobs requiring menial or repetitive labour.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Would you work if you didn’t have to?
>
> news.com.au
> Frank Chung
> September 17, 2015
>
>
> IF YOU were paid $30,000 by the government every year without having to lift
> a finger, would you still try to find work?
> And if you did, would you settle for a menial job cleaning toilets, or would
> you demand something more glamorous?
>
>
> More importantly, if in the next, say, 20 years, those toilets are being
> cleaned by robots, shouldn’t those now out-of-work toilet cleaners have a
> right to that $30,000?
>
> These are the questions at the heart of the debate over unconditional basic
> income — an unconventional policy idea which argues every person should be
> paid a standard amount, regardless of whether they are working or not.
>
> Like the dole, it’s meant to make sure every person in society can meet
> basic living standards. But it differs, in that there is no work requirement
> or means test — meaning you could have a job and pocket the $30,000 cash on
> top of your wage, or not work at all and live off the $30,000 alone.
>
> Some conservatives like the idea because it would theoretically streamline
> and simplify complex systems of social security payments and subsidies,
> cutting down administrative costs.
>
> It’s already being trialled in the Netherlands with 300 residents of the
> town of Utrecht among a number of Dutch pilot sites, while the Indian
> government has also embraced the idea, and previous small-scale experiments
> have been hailed as great successes.
>
> A new lobby group has formed in the US, Basic Income Action, to coincide
> with the eighth International Basic Income Week, and the campaign to give
> every human being a basic minimum wage, no questions asked, appears to be
> picking up steam.
>
> The group, taking a cue from recent similar campaigns around gay marriage
> and marijuana legalisation, has launched a petition calling on US
> presidential candidates to support basic income.
>
> “Basic income is a remarkably powerful and timely idea, and Basic Income
> Action will be a great resource for longtime activists and people who are
> learning about this for the first time,” said Steven Shafarman, author of
> the upcoming book The Basic Income Imperative.
>
> It’s not a new idea, but with rising under- and unemployment, increasing
> cost of living and low to negative real wage growth — not to mention the
> growing automation of menial jobs — basic income has become a popular cause
> of the Left.
>
> Canadian author Naomi Klein recently released a manifesto which, along with
> universal childcare and an end to international trade deals, called for a
> universal basic income.
>
> Next year, Switzerland will hold a referendum on the issue after a petition
> gained more than 100,000 signatures, although the government has come out
> against the idea, urging its citizens to vote ‘no’.
>
> It’s an idea which appeals to both sides of the political spectrum.
>
> Classic liberal economists including Milton Friedman supported the idea in
> the form of a ‘reverse tax’, or a threshold under which, rather than the
> government taking your money, it pays you.
>
> Progressives, who often throw around terms like ‘wage slavery’ when
> discussing universal income, see it as a way of expanding the social safety
> net and elevating the human condition above the drudgery of performing
> soul-crushing jobs just to survive.
>
> The key question is whether people can be trusted not to sit around doing
> nothing. Conservatives naturally assume the worst of people, while
> progressives hope for the best.
>
> Arguments against the idea are generally that one, we can’t possibly afford
> it; and two, it would dampen labour market participation by removing
> incentive to work, putting greater tax pressure on those who do.
>
> A study conducted 40 years ago in the tiny Canadian farming town of Dauphin,
> Manitoba, found the payments actually had a “social multiplier effect”, and
> despite the fears of a dip in labour, people still had the incentive to work
> more hours rather than less.
>
> One big danger in implementing such a system, however, would be pressure
> from the welfare lobby to apply different loadings for various interest
> groups, undermining the generic distribution.
>
> Mikayla Novak, senior research fellow with free-market think-tank the
> Institute of Public Affairs, wrote in 2013 that while basic income was a
> seductive idea for people of “varied philosophical persuasions”, it could
> “risk ending up as another initiative in which good intentions do not align
> with desirable results”.
>
> Another common criticism of basic income is that it would lead to inflation
> — if everyone has more money, everything would cost more.
>
> Writing in Medium, basic income advocate Scott Santens provides two
> real-world examples where that proved not to be the case: Alaska in 1982,
> and Kuwait in 2011. In both cases, inflation actually decreased after the
> government introduced a partial basic income to citizens.
>
> Supporters argue that in general, since the income is provided by the
> government through existing, not printed money, the inflationary effects
> should be minimal.
>
> He told Motherboard the momentum which was lost in the 1970s was coming back
> and, due to advances in technology, was “here to stay”.
>
> “Step one to all of this is growing the conversation for basic income to a
> critical mass and connecting the people who believe it needs to happen,” he
> said. “And that’s what BIA is for, to grow and connect, and to win.”
>
> http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/would-you-work-if-you-didnt-have-to/story-fnu2pycd-1227531288369
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 01:51:38 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:51:38 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <807112912.69552.1442558918651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28bGuDWa+u7JvCYtVkOoi1q4UQ3tfAqpqs2vayNVhUCZg@mail.gmail.com>
 <807112912.69552.1442558918651.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150918085138.GB2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 06:48:38AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
>  Since any serious rowhammer attack will generate millions of
> correctable single-bit and uncorrectable double- and triple-bit
> errors, per actual single 4-bit error, i
>any system operator will get a huge amount of warning that the attack is underway before even as many as a single 3-bit error will appear.             Jim Bell


In a typical scenario, (unless the admin is quite paranoid and want to
DOS themselves), if the exploit works, the logs can be cleared or
manipulated, leaving no trace AFAICT.

According to some admins I asked...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 09:33:20 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 12:33:20 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=E2=80=99t_have_to=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte
<l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
> 15k is really quite enough (at least in NL). This also to prevent complete

Subsistance is the correct level, possibly less, but no more.
The makeup / more comes from work in your areas of interest.
Subsistance is also trends pointless status quo, which is fine if you
don't wish to get off the rock. Also, other than energy from the Sun,
we are ultimately closed system. Thus if everyone adopts strict
subsistance with no extra interest work to support it, and you're
not 100% precise at redistribution with no loss, it fails.
Market royalties depend on tapping extra work of others.
BI is just another take on socialism, like any other system it works
good until it is pushed further than natural control factors allow.
Systems at law are enforced means to get what you want, or balance
things, at others expense, beyond inherent puppetability and usury
of free markets.
Some balancing is needed, so we talk of BI, wealth leveling,
universal healthcare, education, etc. This is natural control, happens
when puppeteers make up 1% of 99% puppeted. As in history,
if left unbalanced too long or deep, the slaves revolt and reboot.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Sep 18 12:39:51 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 12:39:51 -0700
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <55FC6887.7080902@riseup.net>



On 09/18/2015 03:57 AM, John Young wrote:
> ...hundreds of designers from around the world with access to files. Security of
> the project is primary and its design is not public.

There's just something 'contra' about sentence one in re sentence two.

Being from NYC originally and not having set one foot there since 1976,
is the route of line 7 extension itself secret?

belay that question:
> "The extension, a key part of the Hudson Yards Redevelopment Project,
> is expected to bring business and entertainment into the area. It is
> also intended to aid redevelopment of nearby Chelsea and Hell's
> Kitchen around the Long Island Rail Road's West Side Yard."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension

Gentrification in progress! (wondering if jya's secrets are still such)

Try this question instead:

Did they ever get rid of the IRT's narrow gauge rail? When I lived in
the city the coaches were quaint and ancient because the IRT was always
the last serviced by the MTA's budget...

RR


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From l at odewijk.nl  Fri Sep 18 05:40:34 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 14:40:34 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=E2=80=99t_have_to=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think I'd feel a bit less anxious in general, knowing the worst that
could happen is living in good comfort. I think 30k per person is too much
though, 15k is really quite enough (at least in NL). This also to prevent
complete perversion of reward-for-labor.

I think the "digital nomad"-compatible family of jobs will lose their
associated risk (if it doesn't work out, you're still fine) and that will
help them. Jobs that are highly paid will likely still be pretty rewarding,
too. It's the jobs that pay little now that get the serious change in their
economics. Who wants to pick up garbage for almost no money, when you have
enough money?

It is also hard to estimate how many people will prefer entirely useless
work, or a minimal lifestyle. Given a tease more automation that should not
be a problem. But, remember, as automation increases the basic income can
become less; as a certain level of comfort is achieved at a lower price.
This also gives governments some new and interesting incentives.

The gamble sometimes seems to be whether some "successful creative and
risky business" produces more value than "cheap labor". (And, well, what
those lousy-job-people will do when they get a lot of time on their hands!)
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Sep 18 14:47:29 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 14:47:29 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [Cryptography] WashPo: Leaked NSC Memo on Encryption
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28pYnfLaQkC6XhZZRjCy_XCagcqA2v2ow8MFgBO-F=0Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1ZcNE7-0000H5-Vx@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti28pYnfLaQkC6XhZZRjCy_XCagcqA2v2ow8MFgBO-F=0Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55FC8671.4070901@riseup.net>



On 09/17/2015 11:15 AM, grarpamp wrote:
>  The pdf of the original looks like it was typed on a *manual* typewriter

Dunno. I'm old enough to remember lots of copy written by manual
typewriter but I'm not seeing 'stroke pressure' differences that I
wouldn't assign to OCR processing or any 'broken' characters from
clogged or bunged typeheads here.

Caveat: If the typewriter is electric 'stroke pressure' might not apply.

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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 06:24:20 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:24:20 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <2002516358.1367685.1442565284415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2002516358.1367685.1442565284415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150918132420.GC2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 08:34:44AM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> >3. If you have computer near you, can you induce bit
> >flips on purpose remotely, without executing code on
> >it? (lol, AFAICT if you wait looooong enough cosmic rays
> >will this for you for free, but I am asking about
> >realistic attack).
> I don't think an external attack (with particles) is plausible.

You well might be right, but attacks only get better...

Once upon a time, at an open source party some people claimed that from
commodity microwave oven one can made device that (don't remember which
of those) damages electronics and/or severely interfere with GSM
communications at nontrivial distance. Don't remember the electricity
requirements.

> 
> 
> 
>   




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 06:56:55 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:56:55 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1779111.UxAx0tsn7i@lapuntu>
 <20150911125239.GC2699@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2460414.9ekeXe5i90@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150918135655.GD2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 10:55:58PM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> You can pull numbers from your ass, so can I. When you want to get back to a 
> more serious discussion, do tell.
>


Lol, maybe I will troll you better when the time comes (and sheeple
being collateral political damage).

To get part of the big picture search for

EU refugees crisis

in a search engine of your choice, filtering results to last day/week if
possible.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 13:22:40 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 17:22:40 -0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150918132420.GC2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2002516358.1367685.1442565284415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150918132420.GC2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55fc7180.4bc28c0a.4625e.37a5@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:24:20 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:


> Once upon a time, at an open source party some people claimed that
> from commodity microwave oven one can made device that (don't
> remember which of those) damages electronics and/or severely
> interfere with GSM communications at nontrivial distance.


	shouldn't an unshielded microwave oven jam a whole city as well
	as burn anybody who gets close to it? 

	looks like a great 'terrist' project.


> Don't
> remember the electricity requirements.

	ordinary requirements of an ordinary oven? 



> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 09:21:01 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 19:21:01 +0300
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in
 droves.
In-Reply-To: <1964661.BWLenNOqDH@lapuntu>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150911063905.GK89227@r4> <1964661.BWLenNOqDH@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150918162101.GE2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 09:56:06AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 08:39:05 Tom pisze:
> > Wanna send back children into a war zone because Oktoberfest?
> 
> This, I believe, sums it up perfectly!
>

Indeed, "think of the children" is one of the most convincing scamming
arguments I have seen.

Isn't this EU's fault for closing borders (check news)?

If this is the case, troll the EU, not this list.

How could the dear EU close borders for CHILDREN????




From alfiej at fastmail.fm  Fri Sep 18 03:25:19 2015
From: alfiej at fastmail.fm (Alfie John)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 20:25:19 +1000
Subject: key management is the crux
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SnSas=qgWjsJKCCUjdBJB9xRvEbmNXm_a=ZnBRbWSr1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SnSas=qgWjsJKCCUjdBJB9xRvEbmNXm_a=ZnBRbWSr1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1442571919.2391451.387150049.5A3FCB86@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015, at 02:45 PM, coderman wrote:
> On 9/17/15, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ... Key management is hard.
>
>
> just get straight to it, and study the key management.
>
> tells you all you need to know about a product!

The more I thing about a problem, the more I think that OTR is the only
solution. Thanks @thegrugq.

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at fastmail.fm




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 18 14:30:32 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 21:30:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <55fc7180.4bc28c0a.4625e.37a5@mx.google.com>
References: <55fc7180.4bc28c0a.4625e.37a5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1946408935.1787226.1442611832366.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:24:20 +0300
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>> Once upon a time, at an open source party some people claimed that
>> from commodity microwave oven one can made device that (don't
>> remember which of those) damages electronics and/or severely
>> interfere with GSM communications at nontrivial distance.
>    shouldn't an unshielded microwave oven jam a whole city as well
>    as burn anybody who gets close to it? 
>    looks like a great 'terrist' project.


Within the last couple of months, I think somebody was arrested for planning some sort of "X-ray death ray". http://nypost.com/2015/08/18/kkk-member-built-death-ray-machine-to-kill-muslims-and-obama-prosecutors-say/     But only a dweeb doesn't know that X-rays cannot be focussed.  (With one very obscure exception not applicable here.  Find it and get an "attaboy!". )
Microwaves, OTOH, can be focussed rather easily.  The frequency is 2.45 Ghz, at about 1 Kilowatt.  (wavelength about 12 centimeters.)  I'd have to consult a Radio Amateur's handbook, but a modern dish (intended or Directv or Dish network) could probably get 15-20 db of gain, compared with isotropic.  An old-style 8-foot dish probably would do 30 db gain.  That would be 100 kilowatts ERP.
Such an unshielded  (open) device would probably impair WiFi at 2.5 Ghz severely, if you're close to it, say a few hundred feet away.  Fortunately, I think microwave ovens have better than 60 db of shielding.  A few 10s of feet, away, hardware damage might occur if that full 1 kw were allowed to leak out.           Jim Bell






> Don't remember the electricity requirements.     ordinary requirements of an ordinary oven?
Ordinary microwave ovens are probably 75%-80% efficient.  Thus, if you need to supply a 1 kilowatt microwave, you'll probably need 1250 watts of AC power.




> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  



  
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Sep 18 14:07:19 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:07:19 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150918162101.GE2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1964661.BWLenNOqDH@lapuntu> <20150918162101.GE2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <3142793.Z0iKmEkdVZ@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 18 września 2015 19:21:01 piszesz:
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 09:56:06AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> > Dnia piątek, 11 września 2015 08:39:05 Tom pisze:
> > > Wanna send back children into a war zone because Oktoberfest?
> > 
> > This, I believe, sums it up perfectly!
> 
> Indeed, "think of the children" is one of the most convincing scamming
> arguments I have seen.

That is true. And exactly why I like it so in this context -- as usually the 
very people that (ab)use this "argument" when talking about pr0n, are 
completely, utterly blindsided by it when talking about refugees.

> Isn't this EU's fault for closing borders (check news)?

It is.

> If this is the case, troll the EU, not this list.

If you enable threading view in your mail user agent (you do use a sane one, 
that allows for this, right?), you will notice that my e-mail was in the 
branch replying to a certain e-mail asking about validity of such a move 
(albeit using different words, something about "protecting ethnicity" or 
somesuch).

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 18 17:27:39 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:27:39 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Do ethnic Germans have the right to racial and cultural
 strength? - was Re: At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves.
In-Reply-To: <20150911063905.GK89227@r4>
References: <CAOsGNSRGbKs0_WyC_QosiRtVMdXOEovB_jaNvNbqjnkOVi0GrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNST=sWr8_XdP6fyTqKSCRF8=VA_+h3H8_uf9c3jM+SBJfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F1F9C9.9070009@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAOsGNSRJHo3Uyxqk8XjeuMwgU+w5fVVh30eDWszhsNPKiN8sEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150911063905.GK89227@r4>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQj+oGpzvwTSzB9y+MCGr5qV3f6zD5J-SgmWhi0gRqhkg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/15, Tom <tom at vondein.org> wrote:
> Wanna send back [Syrian] children into a war zone because Oktoberfest?

A prescient argument you have, it seems - perhaps those initial
130,000 landing just in Germany all sign this petition:
https://www.change.org/p/city-of-munich-ban-the-intolerant-and-anti-islamic-event-of-oktoberfest

since it is after all, very important that the Germans protect against
offending the refugee and immigrant cultural rights.

At least the Greek police are on the job checking the humanitarian aid
for all these "Syrian refugees":
http://newswire.net/newsroom/news/00090322-police-in-greece-discovered-arms-in-humanitarian-aid-for-migrants.html
"So far, the Greek custom police found 5000 rifles and at least half a
million bullets in 2 containers allegedly labeled as the “humanitarian
aid” intended to the migrants from Syria who arrived in Greek
migrant’s camp."




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 18 17:52:36 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:52:36 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Waking up
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSS90=ixO27K_xAO8FWbRJmv4a+QRU=4F5iQokfPABDKkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007e01d0effe$b5046480$1f0d2d80$@com.au>
 <CAOsGNSS90=ixO27K_xAO8FWbRJmv4a+QRU=4F5iQokfPABDKkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the full (20min, 60MB interview) youtube link from the bottom
of the article below, which is kind of needed since then you can hear
the full interview (the questioner and the other side):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQw6CryE9M

USAGov/CIA lies - back then (August 2013) as we see in this interview
team USA was saying 'We don't want regime change - we just want a
limited (100 frigate-based missiles) strike against key Syria targets
to send a message that chemical warfare is not ok', whilst:
a) the leaked emails from a few days before the interview already
showed that it was not Assad government, but 'terrorist' chemical
warfare actions (not Assad govt) which also were a false flag done by
CIA, and
b) today we see team USA saying 'Assad must go, regime change is
required to protect human rights'

So team USA says what it wants, when it wants, in order to fuel more
war, which in turn funds Lockheed, Raytheon etc. See here:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/03/10/10-companies-profiting-most-from-war/1970997/
"The business of war is profitable. In 2011, the 100 largest
contractors sold $410 billion in arms and military services. Just 10
of those companies sold over $208 billion...
These companies have benefited tremendously from the growth in
military spending in the U.S., ... in 2000 $312 billion ... 2011 $712
billion ...
#1 Lockheed Martin notched $36.3 billion in sales in 2011
"

Them missiles are expensive, highly profitable.

Zenaan


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 11:53:46 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Waking up

Subject: Waking up

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2015/09/must-watch-ex-marine-goes-crazy-blows-whistle-on-syrian-false-flag-and-real-agenda-3214162.html

"Ken O’ Keefe is a former US Marine turned anti-war campaigner who
appeared on a Press TV debate called Syria: War of Deception, and
absolutely owned his opponent in such an awesome way that you’ll be
cheering at his every comment.

Recorded in August 2013, this interview is now two years old, but in
light of the current European refugee crisis it’s more relevant today
than ever before. Passionate, articulate and knowledgeable about the
subject matter, O’Keefe is the perfect guy to step up and tell these
home truths...




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 18 18:16:05 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 01:16:05 +0000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Microsoft_has_developed_its_own_Linux=2E_Repeat=2E_M?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?icrosoft_has_developed_its_own_Linux_=E2=80=A2_The_Register?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGme6FpejL4BuvGTeuxWLAE6ys0qufsGsakSGtXM08Dk8ok1_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55FC0B5B.8070400@sbcglobal.net>
 <CAGme6FpejL4BuvGTeuxWLAE6ys0qufsGsakSGtXM08Dk8ok1_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSzezVkAcSjSkVebTi3qRq-F5fEgxNMKitSepWGboX_MQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/18/15, Robin wrote:
> On 18 September 2015 at 16:02, Dave wrote:
>>     It must be getting a bit chilly down in Hell right now...
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/18/microsoft_has_developed_its_own_linux_repeat_microsoft_has_developed_its_own_linux/
>>
>>     ...And I see some porcine figures out on the tarmac...
>
> Oh, and there's Jesus on a pogo stick ...

Lucifer just rang his broker demanding a massive short position in
Fujitsu Air conditioning, but the picosecond high frequency
"liquidity" traders saw the bid and pre-seized all options causing St
Peter to chuckle from the perly gates which manifested as a
thunderstorm never seen before and lightening from New Zealand all the
way to Hades.

Lucifer of course figured "well, it might not be molten sodium but a
little back to the future is better than nothing I guess," but just
then she realised that the news article prompting all these escapades
had caused exactly six-nines of all humans to laugh at exactly the
same moment and with that the lightning didn't stop before Lucifer's
throne, instead slicing her clean in two.

As the two Lucifer halves started an eternal fist fight over which
would get to mount the other half first, at that moment even God
chuckled and the universe accidentally en...




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Sep 18 19:25:20 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 02:25:20 +0000
Subject: Waking up
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007e01d0effe$b5046480$1f0d2d80$@com.au>
 <CAOsGNSS90=ixO27K_xAO8FWbRJmv4a+QRU=4F5iQokfPABDKkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQ_mrRWn03XsjQo_9TD9UjAp4giWYZ8Og-W1b2x=baOZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/15, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> Here's the full (20min, 60MB interview) youtube link from the bottom
> of the article below, which is kind of needed since then you can hear
> the full interview (the questioner and the other side):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQw6CryE9M
>
> USAGov/CIA lies - back then (August 2013) as we see in this interview
> team USA was saying 'We don't want regime change - we just want a
> limited (100 frigate-based missiles) strike against key Syria targets
> to send a message that chemical warfare is not ok', whilst:
> a) the leaked emails from a few days before the interview already
> showed that it was not Assad government, but 'terrorist' chemical
> warfare actions (not Assad govt) which also were a false flag done by
> CIA, and
> b) today we see team USA saying 'Assad must go, regime change is
> required to protect human rights'

"Assad must go" is definitely the new chant:
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/assad-must-go-no-american-arrogance-must-go/ri9819




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sat Sep 19 03:40:54 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:40:54 -0400
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <20150918102318.efe2be8e97806a806bb39694@virtadpt.net>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
 <20150918102318.efe2be8e97806a806bb39694@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <55FD3BB6.1090802@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/18/2015 01:23 PM, The Doctor wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 20:07:52 -0400 Steve Kinney
> <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:
> 
>> A friend turned me on to this some time ago.  I have yet to
>> set up any mesh networks but it does look VERY promising. 
>> http://hsmm-mesh.org/
> 
> [...]  It's also hams only, so I'd advise caution if you don't
> have your ticket but want to experiment with it, new nodes that
> aren't recognized will draw a lot of attention.

I don't think that's a problem, since consumer grade routers don't
have enough power to require a licensed operator.  High gain
antennas may be a gray area here, but since these would be pointed
at participating reconfigured routers I don't think that would
raise any eyebrows.

> One of the gotchas from their FAQ: "You can't use Wi-Fi to
> connect to a mesh node from your computer, netbook, smart phone
> or other wireless device."  Back to hardwiring.

Yup, needs an ethernet connection for user access.  Forwarding a
mesh network router to a conventionally configured WiFi router is
not a problem I have looked at yet, but I believe it should be
easy.  (He said, heedless of Finagle's Ghost hovering over his
shoulder.)

:o)





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=67tY
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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 21:41:10 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:41:10 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <55fc7180.4bc28c0a.4625e.37a5@mx.google.com>
References: <20150917053633.GB2746@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2002516358.1367685.1442565284415.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150918132420.GC2729@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55fc7180.4bc28c0a.4625e.37a5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150919044110.GA2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 05:22:40PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> > Don't
> > remember the electricity requirements.
> 
> 	ordinary requirements of an ordinary oven? 

Really don't remember the details.
For a simple? device, they needed certain parts.
They claimed the easiest way to get the parts was
from ordinary microwave oven.

Well might be wrong about the electricity requirements.




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Sep 19 04:50:00 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 07:50:00 -0400
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Nobody sane has ever met JYA, just not possible. But several cpunks
and USG officials have. But none of those use PGP after learning
what precludes sanity and is replaced with blind faith in the math when
crypto is implanted.

GPG is further down the wormhole of instability.

As RH pithed on PRZ's shoes: children of code-cobblers have none.

At 04:46 AM 9/19/2015, you wrote:
>On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 06:57:58AM -0400, John Young wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > 18 September 2015
> >
> > Key compromise is related to our architectural work on NYC No. 7
> > Subway Line Extension, recently opened. Project had hundreds of
> > designers from around the world with access to files. Security of
> > the project is primary and its design is not public. Extent of
> > subway system security and file protection is restricted to
> > need to know.
> >
> > JYA and Cryptome passphrases remain secure. Key revocation done
> > for caution.
> >
>
>While this messages passes gpg verification with the alleged JYA's key,
>I doubt he wrote it (at least in a relatively sane state).
>
>If someone knows JYA, please confirmed the message is indeed from him.





From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 18 22:40:28 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:40:28 +0300
Subject: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
In-Reply-To: <20150918101100.2247fdf06e49aa3b46587d1d@virtadpt.net>
References: <20150916090105.GA2571@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55F93284.4060100@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150918101100.2247fdf06e49aa3b46587d1d@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <20150919054028.GB2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 10:11:00AM -0700, The Doctor wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:12:36 +0100
> Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> 
> > possible. Browser model, JS engine, hardware acceleration options, 
> > possibly firmwares, and DRAM model/generation/clockspeed.
> > No reason to be complacent, but the gist was "you probably don't need to 
> > worry about rowhammer-JS".
> 
> It makes one wonder how well it works in the context of node.js, which seems to be the darling of developers the world over these days.
>

http://arxiv.org/abs/1507.06955

Rowhammer.js: A Remote Software-Induced Fault Attack in JavaScript

p.2
We compared our implementations of the Rowhammer
attack on the three different machines shown in Table I.

(gives explicit models).





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sat Sep 19 09:17:59 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:17:59 -0700
Subject: Waking up
In-Reply-To: <1912831.HxdQoyA6rQ@lapuntu>
References: <007e01d0effe$b5046480$1f0d2d80$@com.au>
 <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQ_mrRWn03XsjQo_9TD9UjAp4giWYZ8Og-W1b2x=baOZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1912831.HxdQoyA6rQ@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FD8AB7.7050005@riseup.net>

On 09/19/2015 03:18 AM, rysiek wrote:
> How about "both Assad and American arrogance must go".

How about "Assad is a bad guy in a 'hood full of bad guys and it could
be a lot worse."

What say we focus on taking out our OWN elected Warmongering
scumbuckets, and the rest, as they say, will take care of itself

Gary Brecter, the War Nerd, on whose what in Syria.

> "The post-war years were full of wild experiments in the Arab world.
> The only constant was that military coups were the rule. Leaders came
> from the army—Nasser, Ghadafi, Saddam. So when an officer with
> coup-making skills happened to come from a tightly-knit community, he
> was almost sure to end up in charge. Saddam had his Tikrit clan in
> Iraq; Ghadafi had his academy buddies in Libya; Hafez Assad had his
> Alawite kin in Syria. The Alawites were perfectly placed to take
> advantage of this coup-centered polity. T. E. Lawrence said about
> them, “One Nusairi [Alawite] would not betray another, and would
> hardly not betray an unbeliever.” With Alawite officers filling the
> armed services in Syria, it was inevitable that an Alawite would come
> to power, as Hafez Assad did in 1970. From that point, they did what
> they had to do to remain in power. When killing was necessary, they
> killed. And in Syria, it was necessary fairly often. But I don’t know
> of any records showing that the Alawites were particularly cruel by
> the standards of the time and place. In fact, from the start of their
> rule in Syria, the Alawites have tried, via Ba’ath Party secularism
> and a long-term attempt to make Alawite ritual and doctrine closer to
> Sunni norms, to integrate with their neighbors."
 
~Gary Brecher, The War Nerd: Little Kerry and the Three Bad Options
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/little-kerry/

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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep 19 01:46:30 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:46:30 +0300
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 06:57:58AM -0400, John Young wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 18 September 2015
> 
> Key compromise is related to our architectural work on NYC No. 7
> Subway Line Extension, recently opened. Project had hundreds of
> designers from around the world with access to files. Security of
> the project is primary and its design is not public. Extent of
> subway system security and file protection is restricted to
> need to know.
> 
> JYA and Cryptome passphrases remain secure. Key revocation done
> for caution.
>

While this messages passes gpg verification with the alleged JYA's key,
I doubt he wrote it (at least in a relatively sane state).

If someone knows JYA, please confirmed the message is indeed from him.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Sep 19 03:18:18 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:18:18 +0200
Subject: Waking up
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQ_mrRWn03XsjQo_9TD9UjAp4giWYZ8Og-W1b2x=baOZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <007e01d0effe$b5046480$1f0d2d80$@com.au>
 <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQ_mrRWn03XsjQo_9TD9UjAp4giWYZ8Og-W1b2x=baOZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1912831.HxdQoyA6rQ@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 19 września 2015 02:25:20 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> On 9/19/15, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> > Here's the full (20min, 60MB interview) youtube link from the bottom
> > of the article below, which is kind of needed since then you can hear
> > the full interview (the questioner and the other side):
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQw6CryE9M
> > 
> > USAGov/CIA lies - back then (August 2013) as we see in this interview
> > team USA was saying 'We don't want regime change - we just want a
> > limited (100 frigate-based missiles) strike against key Syria targets
> > to send a message that chemical warfare is not ok', whilst:
> > a) the leaked emails from a few days before the interview already
> > showed that it was not Assad government, but 'terrorist' chemical
> > warfare actions (not Assad govt) which also were a false flag done by
> > CIA, and
> > b) today we see team USA saying 'Assad must go, regime change is
> > required to protect human rights'
> 
> "Assad must go" is definitely the new chant:
> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/assad-must-go-no-american-arrogance-mu
> st-go/ri9819

How about "both Assad and American arrogance must go".

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Sat Sep 19 09:33:07 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:33:07 -0400
Subject: Waking up
In-Reply-To: <1912831.HxdQoyA6rQ@lapuntu>
References: <007e01d0effe$b5046480$1f0d2d80$@com.au>
 <CAOsGNSQLQdw+x9nUD2MghnMgD1npoeBRqtDG8=TtEDwmDxdBtA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQ_mrRWn03XsjQo_9TD9UjAp4giWYZ8Og-W1b2x=baOZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1912831.HxdQoyA6rQ@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FD8E43.1050306@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/19/2015 06:18 AM, rysiek wrote:

>> "Assad must go" is definitely the new chant: 
>> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/assad-must-go-no-american-a
rrogance-mu
>>
>> 
st-go/ri9819
> 
> How about "both Assad and American arrogance must go".
> 

"Assad must go" has been the uniform propaganda theme across all
Western media outlets since the day the Obama Admimistration first
called the Syrian government a "regime."

NGOs sent teams into Syria a couple of years ago with the mission
of finding out what the "Syrian in the street" thinks about all
this.  Their uniform position:  All foreign intervention must go.

But alas, now that U.S. sponsored proxy forces have taken over
substantial economic assets in Syria, there will be no removing
them without foreign intervention; even if Uncle Sam turns off the
money tap, ISIS will just keep going:  Deeply depleted Syrian
armed forces won't be able to remove them.  In terms of real
options, a strong Russian presence is most likely the best deal
available to the Syrian people.

:o/





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=YokF
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Sat Sep 19 10:12:05 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 13:12:05 -0400
Subject: Darryl W. Perry Calls for Ross Ulbrich to be Pardoned.
Message-ID: <N1B-fbRz99uadF@Safe-mail.net>

Lyn Ulbrich, Ross' mom, will be speaking at the Prague Hacker's Conference in early October http://hcpp.cz/eng/#section2 

-------- Original Message --------
From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: Cpunks List <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
Subject: Darryl W. Perry Calls for Ross Ulbrich to be Pardoned.
Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 19:20:42 +0000 (UTC)

> 
> 
> 
> From:  http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/05/darryl-w-perry-calls-for-ross-ulbricht-to-be-pardoned/ 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Darryl W. Perry Calls for Ross Ulbricht to Be Pardoned
> 
> 
> Ross Ulbricht
> 
> From Darryl W. Perry’s 2016 presidential campaign website:
> 
> In 2013 Ross Ulbricht was arrested for allegedly operating the black market website Silk Road. In early 2015 he was found convicted in what was essentially a kangaroo trial, where his attorney was prevented from presenting evidence of government corruption in the case, because of an ongoing investigation. Two of the federal agents investigating the case have since been arrested for fraud and money laundering.
> Ulbricht’s lead defense attorney Joshua Dratel wrote in a court filing, “In contrast to the government’s portrayal of the Silk Road web site as a more dangerous version of a traditional drug marketplace, in fact the Silk Road web site was in many respects the most responsible such marketplace in history, and consciously and deliberately included recognized harm reduction measures, including access to physician counseling. In addition, transactions on the Silk Road web site were significantly safer than traditional illegal drug purchases, and included quality control and accountability features that made purchasers substantially safer than they were when purchasing drugs in a conventional manner.”
> Meghan Ralston, a former harm reduction manager for the Drug Policy Alliance says Silk Roadwas “a peaceable alternative to the often deadly violence so commonly associated with the global drug war, and street drug transactions, in particular.”
> Despite the improprieties in the investigation and the trial, and despite the fact that Ross Ulbricht actually made the black market safer, he will be in prison for a minimum of 20 years. The Ulbricht family has said they plan to appeal the conviction, however they shouldn’t need to do so. Ross Ulbricht should be pardoned, as should all non-violent drug offenders!
> [end of quote]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Sep 19 05:06:08 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:06:08 +0300
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150919120608.GD2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 07:50:00AM -0400, John Young wrote:
> GPG is further down the wormhole of instability.
>

Whoever sent this, I quite agree about GPG (this doesn't mean PGP is
better).




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Sep 19 10:50:35 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 17:50:35 +0000
Subject: Darryl W. Perry Calls for Ross Ulbrich to be Pardoned.
In-Reply-To: <N1B-fbRz99uadF@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-fbRz99uadF@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQZdphgTwrkRmHUnuD77vjfjxi2Xhgh2WrbURUq5WVWLA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
> Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
> Subject: Darryl W. Perry Calls for Ross Ulbrich to be Pardoned.
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 19:20:42 +0000 (UTC)
>> From:
>> http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/05/darryl-w-perry-calls-for-ross-ulbricht-to-be-pardoned/
>>
>> Ross Ulbricht should be pardoned,
>> as should all non-violent drug offenders!

As a drug non-user, I wholeheartedly agree.
Zenaan




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Sat Sep 19 19:47:21 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 22:47:21 -0400
Subject: Hackers Convention, Parallel Polis Congress 2-4.10.2015 in Prague
Message-ID: <N1B-RFcvbLYSDa@Safe-mail.net>

I am scheduled to speak there on Sunday October 4th

http://hcpp.cz/eng/




From mezger.benjamin at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 19:24:30 2015
From: mezger.benjamin at gmail.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 23:24:30 -0300
Subject: The tricky encryption that could stump quantum computers
Message-ID: <m2fv29akv5.fsf@gmail.com>



http://www.wired.com/2015/09/tricky-encryption-stump-quantum-computers/

+

https://docbox.etsi.org/Workshop/2014/201410_CRYPTO/S07_Systems_and_Attacks/S07_Groves_Annex.pdf
http://www.etsi.org/news-events/news/947-2015-03-news-etsi-launches-quantum-safe-cryptography-specification-group
https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/

-- 
Sent with my mu4e
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 08:31:42 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:31:42 -0700
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com> <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
 <55F74F83.3060401@gmail.com> <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org>
Message-ID: <55FED15E.4000202@gmail.com>



On 09/20/2015 06:54 AM, hellekin wrote:
> On 09/14/2015 07:51 PM, Blibbet wrote:
>>
>> RMS
>> doesn't seem to care for Open Source Hardware, just Free Software
>
> That's not true.  He cares a lot.  But he has a lot on his plate with
> free software already.  The RYF program of the FSF is proof that he
> cares.  But FSF still is a *small* organization, with a large battlefield.

Sigh, I meant to say "Free Hardware", not "Free Software" above....

My comment was based on last time I saw video of RMS talk about
hardware, ignored existing HW licensing, and only mentioned his newer
Free Hardware concept. No mention to existing Open Source Hardare
(OSHWA) license, just mentioned GPL. I wonder if there's any way FSF can
work WITH OSHWA and not ignore them. I'm worried that if the Free HW and
Open HW divide, that's fewer resources in tiny non-Closed HW niche. It
seems they're the BSD of hardware, and you can just declare them Free
and GPL them when you touch it.

IMO, FSF could do with a lot more clear Free Hardware guidance to
OEMs/IHVs, including RYF. I hope FSF, Linux Foundation, and others get
serious about funding it. Most OEMs/IHVs won't touch GPL hardware, they
still use the IP model, and blobs are normal to them.

I'd LOVE to see a press release from FSF and OSHWA saying they're
working together to create a spectrum of non-closed hardware, from Open
Source Hardware Association-licensed HW to GPL-licensed Free Hardware,
getting OSHWA to back the FSF RYF program. Perhaps come up with a logo
that clarifies Closed/Open/Free nature of the HW, as well as mentioning
the firmware it uses.

I should be seeing regular, weekly spam from FSF reminding people to
fund a variety of new CrowdSupply.com-funded hardware, like USBArmory,
Novena, and other hardware. I recall seeing one press release from FSF
asking for Replicant help; OSMOCOMBB or an SDR equivalent is needed. A
wifi solution is needed. Right now, it seems the org leading the way for
Open/Free Hardware designs is the Open Compute Project, and it is only
targeting enterprise hardware, no privacy-respecting hardware. Community
is offering little advise to vendors, as previous post in thread
suggested. Someone from FSF should give a talk on Free Hardware at
Embedded Linux Conference, HotChips, and other places where OEMs/IHVs
attend.




From hellekin at dyne.org  Sun Sep 20 06:54:28 2015
From: hellekin at dyne.org (hellekin)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 10:54:28 -0300
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55F74F83.3060401@gmail.com>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com> <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
 <55F74F83.3060401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org>

On 09/14/2015 07:51 PM, Blibbet wrote:
>
> RMS
> doesn't seem to care for Open Source Hardware, just Free Software
>

That's not true.  He cares a lot.  But he has a lot on his plate with
free software already.  The RYF program of the FSF is proof that he
cares.  But FSF still is a *small* organization, with a large battlefield.

Disclaimer: my other email address is @gnu.org.

==
hk

-- 
 _ _     We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 09:41:26 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 12:41:26 -0400
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-jzaRXYYyoc8VuMy0VxoOkYZiFecLLoM_Csj5Um2hVcg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 7:50 AM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> Nobody sane has ever met JYA, just not possible. But several cpunks
> and USG officials have. But none of those use PGP after learning
> what precludes sanity and is replaced with blind faith in the math when
> crypto is implanted.

Keysigning party at JYA this Halloween.
Wearage of anti facial apparatus encouraged.




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 20 04:39:41 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 14:39:41 +0300
Subject: Why libressl-2.2.3 and openssl-1.0.1p accept very weak elliptic
 curves?
Message-ID: <20150920113941.GA2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Summary:  libressl-2.2.3 and openssl-1.0.1p appear to accept elliptic
curves which might be broken by Pollard's rho DL in O(2^56) or O(2^82)
group operations

Pollard's rho DL algorithm [1] solves discrete logarithm in O(\sqrt{n})
where n is the group order. Equivalently the complexity is
O(2^{(log_2{n})/2}).

Both libressl-2.2.3 and openssl-1.0.1p have curves with
log_2{n}=112 and NIST curve with log_2{n}=163.

Assuming Pollard's rho succeeds, the complexity is O(2^56) and O(2^82)
group operations.

The first is close to real time on ``nice hardware''.

To reproduce:

$ ~/inst/openssl-1.0.1p/apps/openssl ecparam -list_curves
 secp112r1 : SECG/WTLS curve over a 112 bit prime field
  sect163k1 : NIST/SECG/WTLS curve over a 163 bit binary field

$ ~/inst/libressl-2.2.3/apps/openssl ecparam -list_curves|grep -i ' 1'
   secp112r1 : SECG/WTLS curve over a 112 bit prime field
   sect163k1 : NIST/SECG/WTLS curve over a 163 bit binary field

For reference,
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.cypherpunks/6101
Bitcoin networks surpasses 2^80 hashes per week

I believe in an Edward model of EC, the group operation on the EC
isn't much slower than Bitcoin SHA hash, so someone with such
resources might break ...2r1 in nearly real time and ...3k1 in few
weeks.

This resembles the ``DSA oddity'' of _forcing_ q as low as 160
bits, giving the same level (to ...3k1) of security compared to
DSA as shown at [2], search for "160"


[1]:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pollard%27s_rho_algorithm_for_logarithms&oldid=667021803
[2]:
https://j.ludost.net/blog/archives/2015/09/05/rfc-2631_fips_186-3_and_openssls_implementation_of_dsa_appear_broken_and_possibly_backdoored/index.html




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 20 07:26:14 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:26:14 +0200
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <72164962.SdmS2s7A6l@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 20 września 2015 16:53:50 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> Michael J. Wiener

Hummm... Let's see:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=pl&q=Michael+J.+Wiener&btnG=&lr=

Well, at least this guys seems legit, as surprising as it may be.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 20 06:53:50 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:53:50 +0300
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
Message-ID: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Found this from a DJB paper:

http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf


Parallel Collision Search with Cryptanalytic Applications

Paul C. van Oorschot and Michael J. Wiener

CHECK THE DATE:

1996 September 23

p.1

The practical significance of the technique is illustrated by giving the
design for three $10 million custom machines which could be built with
current technology: one finds elliptic curve logarithms in GF(2^155)
thereby defeating a proposed elliptic curve cryptosystem in expected
time 32 days, the second finds MD5 collisions in expected time 21
days...

---

I know the dollar is not what it used to be, but same applies to
hardware IMHO

Metadata of the PDF is in the future, suggests windows.

This is paywalled:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FPL00003816
Journal of Cryptology

January 1999, Volume 12, Issue 1, pp 1-28




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Sep 20 08:58:45 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:58:45 +0100
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <2411736.TPIJ9j0KPb@lapuntu>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org> <20150920144618.GC2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2411736.TPIJ9j0KPb@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <FC3B3B3A-D90C-452E-A7E2-DADB616D2732@cathalgarvey.me>

I do think RMS is complicit with the destruction of GCC though. I know his heart's in the right place about exporting the AST but it's just pushed all the exciting stuff (Rust, Emscripten, etc) to LLVM which is licensed for a tragedy of the commons.

On 20 September 2015 16:31:43 IST, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>OHAI,
>
>Dnia niedziela, 20 września 2015 17:46:18 Georgi Guninski pisze:
>> As all humans, RMS has something to be trolled about.
>
>Ah, my pet peeve with RMS is his support for non-free (!) licenses on
>anything 
>that is not software. Amazingly, I was able to convice him to change an
>-ND 
>license to something else once, but that was... rather silly:
>https://stallman.org/doggerel.html#IveBeenAnsweringMyEmail
>
>I still have not given up, though! ;)
>
>> Besides the GNU stuff, IMHO he is underestimated for GCC.
>
>Absolutely.
>
>> Without GCC, besides linux, likely neither *BSD nor
>> Apple would exist in its present form.
>> 
>> <TROLL>
>> (...)
>> </TROLL>
>
>This, unfortunately, is slowly coming to an end, with llvm gaining more
>and 
>more ground. I love competition, but I fear possible proprietarization
>of llvm 
>and a large part of the FLOSS ecosystem:
>http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/01/26/llvm.html
>
>inb4 compiler wars
>
>-- 
>Pozdrawiam,
>Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
>Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
>GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 20 08:31:43 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:31:43 +0200
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <20150920144618.GC2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org> <20150920144618.GC2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2411736.TPIJ9j0KPb@lapuntu>

OHAI,

Dnia niedziela, 20 września 2015 17:46:18 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> As all humans, RMS has something to be trolled about.

Ah, my pet peeve with RMS is his support for non-free (!) licenses on anything 
that is not software. Amazingly, I was able to convice him to change an -ND 
license to something else once, but that was... rather silly:
https://stallman.org/doggerel.html#IveBeenAnsweringMyEmail

I still have not given up, though! ;)

> Besides the GNU stuff, IMHO he is underestimated for GCC.

Absolutely.

> Without GCC, besides linux, likely neither *BSD nor
> Apple would exist in its present form.
> 
> <TROLL>
> (...)
> </TROLL>

This, unfortunately, is slowly coming to an end, with llvm gaining more and 
more ground. I love competition, but I fear possible proprietarization of llvm 
and a large part of the FLOSS ecosystem:
http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/01/26/llvm.html

inb4 compiler wars

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 20 07:46:18 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:46:18 +0300
Subject: Privacy Respecting Laptops
In-Reply-To: <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org>
References: <1442196672.2106649.382666265.23011BB0@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <9E491F41-82BE-4250-ABC5-0109D3635C47@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zcwVeDZoFyL0uD=rQHaNnqmBZPmUQugFJueJC5AafZ6BQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6E481.4030608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAKtE3zcKo6oefApWfNSsiWH3g-=8YaCCYEe2yPCvCmwU1oPGNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55F6F142.4010104@gmail.com> <55F703E3.4000007@openmailbox.org>
 <55F74F83.3060401@gmail.com> <55FEBA94.1020005@dyne.org>
Message-ID: <20150920144618.GC2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 10:54:28AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
> On 09/14/2015 07:51 PM, Blibbet wrote:
> >
> > RMS
> > doesn't seem to care for Open Source Hardware, just Free Software
> >
> 
> That's not true.  He cares a lot.  But he has a lot on his plate with
> free software already.  The RYF program of the FSF is proof that he
> cares.  But FSF still is a *small* organization, with a large battlefield.
> 
> Disclaimer: my other email address is @gnu.org.
>

Cheers,

As all humans, RMS has something to be trolled about.

Besides the GNU stuff, IMHO he is underestimated for GCC.

Without GCC, besides linux, likely neither *BSD nor
Apple would exist in its present form.

<TROLL>
It was fun trolling *BSD fanbois about GCC, like:

Q: Dude/Chick, your BASE still infiltrated by GNU,
do you ship GCC?
A: Errrr, We'll switch to CLANG soon, just testing
Q: What about building ALL ports/packages?
A: (silence)
(repeat next year).

For Apple powerusers, we asked something like: how comes
$grep -r __gnu_ / 2>/dev/null
returns so many hits?

</TROLL>






From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 20 11:26:26 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:26:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2003748302.489734.1442773586143.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
>Nobody sane has ever met JYA, just not possible. But several cpunks
>and USG officials have. 

I wanted to shake John Young's hand, once.  But being surrounded by a crowd of hostile U.S. Marshals, I was impeded from doing so.       Jim Bell  
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From peter at m-o-o-t.org  Sun Sep 20 15:26:23 2015
From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:26:23 +0100
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>

On 20/09/15 14:53, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> Found this from a DJB paper:
>
> http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf
>
>
> Parallel Collision Search with Cryptanalytic Applications
>
> Paul C. van Oorschot and Michael J. Wiener
>
> CHECK THE DATE:
>
> 1996 September 23

Both authors are well-known.

Google says the paper was published in the Journal of Cryptology in 1999.

> p.1
>
> The practical significance of the technique is illustrated by giving the
> design for three $10 million custom machines which could be built with
> current technology: one finds elliptic curve logarithms in GF(2^155)
> thereby defeating a proposed elliptic curve cryptosystem in expected
> time 32 days, the second finds MD5 collisions in expected time 21
> days...


The present day open ECC dlog record stands at about 114 bits, iirc: 
that method used ~2014 custom hardware, but not $10 million worth.

I'd guess Oorschot and Wiener got something in the numbers wrong. It 
happens.


However the parallel collision search technique they describe is very 
real, and has been used to effect. At a guess, the ECC dlog record above 
probably used it, as will most modern collision search algorithms.


As DJB quoted them, I'd guess that they invented the technique (though I 
knew of the technique, I thought Knuth described/invented it).

It's one of those things which are obvious in hindsight; but which can 
be dev'lishly hard to come up with in the first place.


-- Peter Fairbrother


>
> ---
>
> I know the dollar is not what it used to be, but same applies to
> hardware IMHO
>
> Metadata of the PDF is in the future, suggests windows.
>
> This is paywalled:
> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FPL00003816
> Journal of Cryptology
>
> January 1999, Volume 12, Issue 1, pp 1-28
>
>




From l at odewijk.nl  Sun Sep 20 16:04:40 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 01:04:40 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=E2=80=99t_have_to=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2r+LVwYv00FLGPkCpCYkvaELnyEOTeP2wroPg223O_VE+w@mail.gmail.com>

2015-09-18 18:33 GMT+02:00 grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>:

> Some balancing is needed, so we talk of BI, wealth leveling,
> universal healthcare, education, etc. This is natural control, happens
> when puppeteers make up 1% of 99% puppeted. As in history,
> if left unbalanced too long or deep, the slaves revolt and reboot.
>

This is one possible outcome -- but this is FAR from a revolt.

Just as likely is the outcome where Basic Income cattle is herded into
cheap everything arrangements, where they're offered "fun and fulfilling"
work for non-market pay. These humans will be entirely economically
detached. The overlords will reap their Basic Income, and allow them to
live month by month. (note: this already happens, you walk in a
Hyundai/Samsung build appartment block, where Lotte runs all the
supermarkets, and all the entertainment is provided by CJ, Koreans don't
fear big-corps, so they don't hide it, but I think this is probably true in
many places of the world)

Or, as in the amazing Cloud Atlas, we will create a caste-like society with
"producers", "consumers" and perhaps some other groups ("politicians"?
"Celebrities"?).

We may move from 99% to 99.9% puppets. It's just a way to generalize the
population, to silence the masses, to present happiness and freedom to be
guaranteed for all. Without alarm the watchers will turn to sleep, and
under that dark moon the world will change.

Simply put, it solves some problems but not all of them. BI can potentially
worsen the situation.

I think the immediate gain of guaranteed personal freedoms; freedom from
labor, freedom to self-improve, freedom to perform altruism, freedom to
perform art, and yes, even freedom to party, are worth a great deal. Yet,
it will create a future where nobody is willing to revolt, and the state is
in even further reaching control.

It also just upsets my minimal-government-preference somewhat. I just don't
like the idea of people living off of money I earned. It only makes sense
because money is already an abstract and perverted item, and because basic
needs will soon drop much further in their cost. (Especially if cheap
living becomes a greater priority)
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 23:19:45 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 03:19:45 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55ffa06e.41031f0a.efb7.ffffb1ac@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 05:06:23 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some
> sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually
> reptilian invaders

	You know rysiek, that kind of comment isn't really in line with
	your more enlightened comments and observations....

	Just saying...


 from outer space and we're all fucked anyway.
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 20 20:06:23 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 05:06:23 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>

OHAI,

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 12:27:32 James A. Donald pisze:
> We now know that everyone that McCarthy claimed was a Soviet agent was
> in fact on the Soviet payroll.

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 12:32:09 James A. Donald pisze:
> Just as Pussy Riot is on the US payroll

for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some sources, but 
then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually reptilian invaders 
from outer space and we're all fucked anyway.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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URL: <https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/testlist/attachments/20150921/c5422c91/attachment.sig>

From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 20 22:29:11 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 08:29:11 +0300
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>
Message-ID: <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:26:23PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
> On 20/09/15 14:53, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> >Found this from a DJB paper:
> >
> >http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf
> >
> >
> >Parallel Collision Search with Cryptanalytic Applications
> >
> >Paul C. van Oorschot and Michael J. Wiener
> >
> >CHECK THE DATE:
> >
> >1996 September 23
> 
> Both authors are well-known.
> 
> Google says the paper was published in the Journal of Cryptology in 1999.
> 
>>days...
> 
> 
> The present day open ECC dlog record stands at about 114 bits, iirc:
> that method used ~2014 custom hardware, but not $10 million worth.
> 

Thanks for the answer.

So the DLOG records (Wikipedia gives 113 bits [1] as of 2010)

break these in libressl/openssl:

$ ./inst/libressl-2.2.3/apps/openssl ecparam -list_curves
secp112r1 : SECG/WTLS curve over a 112 bit prime field
secp112r2 : SECG curve over a 112 bit prime field

And these are in quite gray area?

secp128r1 : SECG curve over a 128 bit prime field
secp128r2 : SECG curve over a 128 bit prime field

And what is the computational power of the Bitcoin network
(Allegedly they do 2^80 SHA hashes per week) in terms of
DSA/ECC operations?

AFAIK, for DSA this is just multiplication/squaring modulo
prime for rho.


[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Discrete_logarithm_records&oldid=663284373#Elliptic_curves


> I'd guess Oorschot and Wiener got something in the numbers wrong. It
> happens.
> 
> 
> However the parallel collision search technique they describe is
> very real, and has been used to effect. At a guess, the ECC dlog
> record above probably used it, as will most modern collision search
> algorithms.
> 
> 
> As DJB quoted them, I'd guess that they invented the technique
> (though I knew of the technique, I thought Knuth described/invented
> it).
> 
> It's one of those things which are obvious in hindsight; but which
> can be dev'lishly hard to come up with in the first place.
> 
> 
> -- Peter Fairbrother
> 
> 




From admin at pilobilus.net  Mon Sep 21 06:10:07 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:10:07 -0400
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <20150921072112.GB6074@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2-jzaRXYYyoc8VuMy0VxoOkYZiFecLLoM_Csj5Um2hVcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150921072112.GB6074@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <560001AF.4090003@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/21/2015 03:21 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

> Why so many people appear to dislike JYA?

I never picked that up, can you give some examples?

> Did he did something sufficiently bad?

IMO people who know who JYA is generally like him because he does
things that are sufficiently bad.

> Cryptome appears useful resource for me.

Yea verily:  One stop shopping for suppressed, leaked,
declassified, authentic, forged, original, altered, or any
combination of the above documents presenting information,
misinformation, disinformation and hybrids thereof contributed by
fearless crusaders, lone nuts, agents provocateur, intelligence
agents, double agents, triple agents, n-tuple agents who have no
idea who or what they are working for, and of course, humor and
satire.

The above paragrph is offered as evidence that just because
someone writes more or less like JYA, it ain't necessarily him.

:o)






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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 02:50:23 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:50:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Your paper on criminal contracts
In-Reply-To: <D21F57A8.73F21%juels@cornell.edu>
References: <D21F57A8.73F21%juels@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <215991081.755732.1442829023096.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Your paper:    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwiF_b_E7IfIAhWQmIgKHc_tAuY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpublic_gyges.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmHTOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=L_lh-zCi016f7Y3jbKVKlQ&bvm=bv.103073922,d.cGU
Thank you for your reply, Dr. Juels, 
Once you read my essay, I think you will understand my concern about the motivation for your research, and its potential consequences.   Superficially, and certainly to someone unfamiliar with my idea (Assassination Politics essay),  I'm sure it sounds useful and indeed beneficial to try to prevent the construction and operation of "criminal contracts".   One problem that I see, as a lifetime libertarian, is that "criminal" may mean no more than "what the government wants to ban" rather than an actual victim crime.  Worse, governments are powerfully motivated to prevent developments that will someday likely destroy them.
I suggest that you study the analyses of Bob Vroman  http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=009ape    ,    http://www.mail-archive.com/cypherpunks-moderated at minder.net/msg02068.html     and  of Bob Murphy,  www.anti-state.com/murphy/murphy17.html   (although the Murphy essay might not be available, except as an archive.)  as well as by R.  Sukumaran   http://www.idsa.in/strategicanalysis/CryptologyDigitalAssassinationandtheTerrorismFuturesMarket_rsukumaran_0404.html. 
Further, consider

 https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/master/content/anarchism/game-theory-anarchism-ii-how-information-can-smash-the-state.md
https://c4ss.org/content/1157

series -- anti-state.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2jo578/arguments_for_against_insurrectionist_ancapism/


There is a lot more where this comes from.

Keep in mind that when I wrote the AP essay, technologies such as Tor, Bitcoin, and especially Ethereum and Augur simply did not exist. But today they do, or at least they soon will.  And that, I consider to be an extremely good thing.
So perhaps you will understand that I consider that trying to prevent _all_ "criminal contracts" from being formed is a major, and indeed dangerous mistake.  While I do not believe that such an effort can ever succeed, I think it would be best not to try.
          Jim Bell

      From: Ari Juels <juels at cornell.edu>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "runting at gmail.com" <runting at gmail.com>; "akosba at cs.umd.edu" <akosba at cs.umd.edu> 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:32 PM
 Subject: Re: Your paper on criminal contracts
   
Dear Mr. Bell,
Thank you for your original note and follow-up. We’re indeed planning to read your essay and cite it as appropriate in our next paper revision (slated to come out in January).
Yours,
AJ


From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 21 00:21:12 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:21:12 +0300
Subject: Key Compromise Related to Architectural Work Not Cryptome
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-jzaRXYYyoc8VuMy0VxoOkYZiFecLLoM_Csj5Um2hVcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1ZctL6-00037O-7G@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150919084630.GC2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <E1ZdGdR-0001Wi-M1@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2-jzaRXYYyoc8VuMy0VxoOkYZiFecLLoM_Csj5Um2hVcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150921072112.GB6074@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 12:41:26PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 7:50 AM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> > Nobody sane has ever met JYA, just not possible. But several cpunks
> > and USG officials have. But none of those use PGP after learning
> > what precludes sanity and is replaced with blind faith in the math when
> > crypto is implanted.
> 
> Keysigning party at JYA this Halloween.
> Wearage of anti facial apparatus encouraged.

Why so many people appear to dislike JYA?

Did he did something sufficiently bad?

Cryptome appears useful resource for me.




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Mon Sep 21 11:53:51 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:53:51 -0700
Subject: Fw: WiFi router networking?
In-Reply-To: <55FD3BB6.1090802@pilobilus.net>
References: <1811219623.44975.1442305689250.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1750318527.299602.1442337670721.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55FA0458.1070800@pilobilus.net>
 <20150918102318.efe2be8e97806a806bb39694@virtadpt.net>
 <55FD3BB6.1090802@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <20150921115351.0b42e191957488089f2d97b1@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 06:40:54 -0400
Steve Kinney <admin at pilobilus.net> wrote:

> I don't think that's a problem, since consumer grade routers don't
> have enough power to require a licensed operator.  High gain
> antennas may be a gray area here, but since these would be pointed

When I was working in this problem space, I was advised to err on the side of caution with regard to high gain antennae due to PEP.

> at participating reconfigured routers I don't think that would
> raise any eyebrows.

I advise being polite.

> Yup, needs an ethernet connection for user access.  Forwarding a
> mesh network router to a conventionally configured WiFi router is
> not a problem I have looked at yet, but I believe it should be

It's pretty straightforward to do.  Just make sure they're on different channels for best efficiency (took me a couple of hours to figure that one out... oops.)

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a Perl script.

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From peter at m-o-o-t.org  Mon Sep 21 03:58:25 2015
From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 11:58:25 +0100
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org> <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <55FFE2D1.5050308@m-o-o-t.org>

On 21/09/15 06:29, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:26:23PM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
>> On 20/09/15 14:53, Georgi Guninski wrote:
>>> Found this from a DJB paper:
>>>
>>> http://www.scs.carleton.ca/~paulv/papers/JoC97.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Parallel Collision Search with Cryptanalytic Applications
>>>
>>> Paul C. van Oorschot and Michael J. Wiener

>>
>> The present day open ECC dlog record stands at about 114 bits, iirc:
>> that method used ~2014 custom hardware, but not $10 million worth.
>>
>
> Thanks for the answer.
>
> So the DLOG records (Wikipedia gives 113 bits [1] as of 2010)
>
> break these in libressl/openssl:
>
> $ ./inst/libressl-2.2.3/apps/openssl ecparam -list_curves
> secp112r1 : SECG/WTLS curve over a 112 bit prime field
> secp112r2 : SECG curve over a 112 bit prime field

Yes. Pwnable.

> And these are in quite gray area?
>
> secp128r1 : SECG curve over a 128 bit prime field
> secp128r2 : SECG curve over a 128 bit prime field

Yes. Dodgy at best, likely pwnable, either now or soon.


Note, from the Wikipedia page, that in 2002 breaking a 109-bit prime 
curve took nearly two years, using presumably general purpose hardware.

By 2015 breaking 113 bit prime curves took 84 days on $15k worth of FPGAs.

If specialised hardware chips are developed (and they may well be in the 
pipeline, or even in use), then following the example of Bitcoin mining, 
that would become minutes or even seconds.

155 and 160 bit curves would be toast, at $10 million in today's money: 
and I'd be a little worried about 192-bit curves, especially for 
long-term security.



Plus, you can do a lot of the math for breaking a curve beforehand, once 
and only once, just from knowing only the curve details: and these 
results will be useful for all the points/numbers you might later want 
to find dlogs for on that curve.

So the second and subsequent dlogs on the same curve will be a whole lot 
cheaper than the first dlog/break.

Unfortunately, it is impractical to generate a new curve for each 
transaction; and it is not easy to generate and change curves very 
often, eg every day.




As a rule of thumb, the prime should be double the size of the security 
parameter - eg for 128-bit security you should have p = 256 bits or so - 
hence curve25519 (where p=2^255 - 19) etc.

For real unbreakable [excepting quantum computers] security I would not 
recommend anything less than 256-bit prime order fields.




In general, the field should be of prime order: extension fields are no 
longer generally considered secure (but see below).

I'm not a big fan of DJB's curve25519. You can do fast math in it - but 
then so can an attacker. And what if that extra structure, which allows 
fast computation, also introduces a weakness?

Wild speculation some would say, and it is - but that's pretty much what 
happened with extension fields. the extra structure in the field made 
some otherwise unimportant attacks easier.


I'd prefer a 256-bit prime chosen verifiably at random, with no 
"special" fast properties, and less exploitable structure.

If your hardware can't cope with that, don't expect whatever crypto you 
do use to be secure.



There is a fairly new curve from Microsoft, called FourQ (and FourQ to 
you too, Microsoft! :) which uses an extension field of p=(2^127 -1)^2, 
ie 254 bits. I won't go into why here, but like extension fields and 
curve25517, I don't trust it.


Stick to verifiably randomly chosen 256-bit prime field curves.

Be safe. Don't be sorry.



-- Peter Fairbrother


> [1]
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Discrete_logarithm_records&oldid=663284373#Elliptic_curves




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 21 05:05:33 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:05:33 +0000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <1689255.m283ULcmWO@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
 <55ffa06e.41031f0a.efb7.ffffb1ac@mx.google.com>
 <1689255.m283ULcmWO@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTBNZD58bU-0Vtzq2JMz9mr4E_3o7z15RyYAgeuve+M1g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/21/15, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 03:19:45 Juan pisze:
>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 05:06:23 +0200
>>
>> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>> > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some
>> > sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually
>> > reptilian invaders
>>
>> 	You know rysiek, that kind of comment isn't really in line with
>> 	your more enlightened comments and observations....
>>
>> 	Just saying...
>
> Did I just get a veiled praise from Juan? Now I'm conflicted!

Nah man, close your eyes, take a deep breath and focus now:
he destroyed you ad-hominem, totally destroyed you!

All better now?
:)




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 19:27:32 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:27:32 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu> <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>

James A. Donald pisze:
>> The fact that Russia is being subverted by the USA, that the USA is
>> attempting to overthrow the Russian government, does make that
>> government's efforts to defend itself and its people against foreign
>> influence OK.


On 2015-09-18 9:04 AM, rysiek wrote:
> See, I was juuuuust about to start arguing with you, but then...
>
>> McCarthy was right to defend the US against Soviet influence, and Putin
>> is right to defend Russia against US influence.

> ...this happened. Are you saying Putin's crackdown on "foreign agents"[1] is
> as reasonable, well-funded and justified as mccarthyism was? Well, can't argue
> with that!

We now know that everyone that McCarthy claimed was a Soviet agent was 
in fact on the Soviet payroll.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 19:32:09 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:32:09 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6619420.kEgClR5EXu@lapuntu> <55FA2E0D.5010306@echeque.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <55FF6C29.2050505@echeque.com>

>> ...this happened. Are you saying Putin's crackdown on "foreign
>> agents"[1] is
>> as reasonable, well-funded and justified as mccarthyism was? Well,
>> can't argue
>> with that!

> We now know that everyone that McCarthy claimed was a Soviet agent was
> in fact on the Soviet payroll.

Just as Pussy Riot is on the US payroll




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 21 04:14:24 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:14:24 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FF7F0D.9000104@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55FF7F0D.9000104@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 13:52:45 James A. Donald pisze:
> On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some sources,
> > but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually reptilian
> > invaders from outer space and we're all fucked anyway.
> 
> Does it not strike you as odd that whenever their is a protest in favor
> of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive regimes,
> the protestors are generally carrying signs in English?

I don't know, man, when I was protesting against ACTA I was carrying signs in 
English too. And that was in Poland. This might be related to the idea that 
once you're protesting, you want international media to pick up the story.

Or, maybe this whole anti-ACTA thing was US-inspired and played right into the 
hands of our reptilian overlords.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 21 04:16:15 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:16:15 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55ffa06e.41031f0a.efb7.ffffb1ac@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55ffa06e.41031f0a.efb7.ffffb1ac@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1689255.m283ULcmWO@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 03:19:45 Juan pisze:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 05:06:23 +0200
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some
> > sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually
> > reptilian invaders
> 
> 	You know rysiek, that kind of comment isn't really in line with
> 	your more enlightened comments and observations....
> 
> 	Just saying...

Did I just get a veiled praise from Juan? Now I'm conflicted!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 20:45:57 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:45:57 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FF7D75.5020200@echeque.com>

On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> OHAI,
>
> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 12:27:32 James A. Donald pisze:
>> We now know that everyone that McCarthy claimed was a Soviet agent was
>> in fact on the Soviet payroll.
>
> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 12:32:09 James A. Donald pisze:
>> Just as Pussy Riot is on the US payroll
>
> for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some sources,


"Blacklisted by History, The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and 
His Fight Against America's Enemies,"

Case by case, Evans reveals the unimpeachable evidence that all of the 
so-called victims of McCarthy's crusade against Communist subversion — 
every single one of them — really were Communists and agents of a 
hostile foreign power




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 20:52:45 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:52:45 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FF7F0D.9000104@echeque.com>

On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some sources, but
> then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually reptilian invaders
> from outer space and we're all fucked anyway.

Does it not strike you as odd that whenever their is a protest in favor 
of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive regimes, 
the protestors are generally carrying signs in English?

Is it not strange that the website of the movement that overthrew the 
Ukrainian government was written in English in the dialect of the 
Harvard educated American upper class?

At least those supposedly persecuted by McCarthy took the trouble to 
translate (badly) their Soviet written slogans.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Sep 21 13:54:20 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:54:20 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56006E7C.7020508@riseup.net>



On 09/20/2015 08:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 12:32:09 James A. Donald pisze:
>> > Just as Pussy Riot is on the US payroll
> for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some sources, but 
> then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are actually reptilian invaders 
> from outer space and we're all fucked anyway.

+1

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From l at odewijk.nl  Mon Sep 21 04:55:19 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:55:19 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=E2=80=99t_have_to=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+LVwYv00FLGPkCpCYkvaELnyEOTeP2wroPg223O_VE+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAHWD2rK+1bs4YVRGYD-YKwVHb0c7q56kz0=o14Dhx+b6b2gJPg@mail.gmail.com>

I think I can rephrase to clarify.

2015-09-21 1:04 GMT+02:00 Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>:

> We may move from 99% to 99.9% puppets. It's just a way to generalize the
> population, to silence the masses, to present happiness and freedom to be
> guaranteed for all. Without alarm the watchers will turn to sleep, and
> under that dark moon the world will change.
>

I meant this would practically guarantee everyone the funds to be healthy,
choose one's daily activity freely, and for lack of want be happy.

That guarantee seems so sufficient that it's as if there will be no more
injustice due to power imbalance. As if the injustice done by the wealthy
is only because of the existence of the "too poor". I think it will lead to
a greater divergence in wealth. I'm not actually sure if that will be a
problem, but if wealth remains so direct a means for power, well, it very
well could be a problem. (note: democracy is more sensitive to
wealth==power due to the effectiveness of funding popular opinion
campaigns, advertising, new magazines, popular culture inserts, etc)


> I think the immediate gain of guaranteed personal freedoms; freedom from
> labor, freedom to self-improve, freedom to perform altruism, freedom to
> perform art, and yes, even freedom to party, are worth a great deal. Yet,
> it will create a future where nobody is willing to revolt, and the state is
> in even further reaching control.
>

The peace of mind for being guaranteed a minimum of wealth, and the ability
to do what you believe is right. Dwarf Fortress is a unique game started by
someone support by his brother, and it became the inspiration of Minecraft,
which became quite a valuable company. Without years and years of seemingly
unprofitable development, that could not have happened, as Dwarf Fortress
seems to far out to invest in.

I can't even phantom how much better Open Source software would become =)

"Don't bite the hand that feeds" will become very applicable to government.
I think that's a risk. Sometimes the hand of government needs a bite, just
to keep it from fondling too much. I suppose I'm worried popular perception
will move in favor of deep government involvement, also as part of improved
democratic participation and controls, with aspects of economy and personal
life. (ex: why should you own property? If the state owns it and rents it
to people, it's much more manageable! We can make sure all buildings are in
good order, politely force people to move for new construction, ensure
regionally consistent housing, etc)


We'll see. I like BI as a generalized welfare program, the culture will be
whatever the culture develops into. It could be Star Trek
<http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/11/18/star_trek_economy_federation_is_only_mostly_post_scarcity.html>
level *amazing*, or it could be Idiocracy
<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/> level *disappointing*. Hell, it
could be both at the same time!
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From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 21:01:51 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:01:51 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com>

It used to be that whenever Soviet attempts to brutally subjugate some 
country failed, the left would cry "Evil US imperialism"

Now you have actual evil US imperialism happening right in front of your 
noses, for example Haiti, and the left is in total denial.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Sep 20 21:05:01 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:05:01 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <55FF81ED.6090900@echeque.com>

On 2015-09-21 2:01 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
> It used to be that whenever Soviet attempts to brutally subjugate some
> country failed, the left would cry "Evil US imperialism"

In a hilarious reversal, US efforts to brutally subjugate Syria go 
horribly wrong, and the left cries "Evil Russian imperialism"




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Sep 21 14:05:59 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 14:05:59 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <25310526.RON6rcQ4K1@lapuntu> <55FF6B14.7090202@echeque.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com>
Message-ID: <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>



On 09/20/2015 09:01 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
> It used to be that whenever Soviet attempts to brutally subjugate some
> country failed, the left would cry "Evil US imperialism"
>
> Now you have actual evil US imperialism happening right in front of
> your noses, for example Haiti, and the left is in total denial.
>
>

The Cruise Missile Left is cheering all "humanitarian interventions".
All other left-thinking Mericans have been stupidified by TeeVee.

I defer to: Amusing Ourselves To Death. Neil Postman.

Available at LibCom Anarchist library:

https://libcom.org/library/amusing-ourselves-death-public-discourse-age-show-business-neil-postman

The last chapter regarding Orwell or Huxley, who was right? clinches it.

(personally, much like General Jack Ripper believed water fluoridation
sapping the essence of our manhood, I think "Turkeyburger" is an
insidious plot to stupefy Mericans with  Soma-like L-Tryptophan. Note
how the media always plays up the benefit of it in re Beef burgers, and
anytime you see the word "Meatxxx" or "Burger minus any reference to
beef or 'ham' in food descriptions, at least some significant portion of
it is L-Tryptophan bearing Turkey product.)

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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 17:07:59 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 21:07:59 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55FF7F0D.9000104@echeque.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:14:24 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 13:52:45 James A. Donald pisze:
> > On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> > > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some
> > > sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are
> > > actually reptilian invaders from outer space and we're all fucked
> > > anyway.
> > 
> > Does it not strike you as odd that whenever their is a protest in
> > favor of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive
> > regimes, the protestors are generally carrying signs in English?
> 
> I don't know, man, when I was protesting against ACTA I was carrying
> signs in English too. And that was in Poland. This might be related
> to the idea that once you're protesting, you want international media
> to pick up the story.
> 
> Or, maybe this whole anti-ACTA thing was US-inspired and played right
> into the hands of our reptilian overlords.
> 

	So, your protest against ACTA was legitimate (true).

	And so it follows that US imperialism doesn't exist  and that
	the US gov't never uses local people to further the interests
	of the US gov't...


















From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 15:26:52 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:26:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fw: Your paper on criminal contracts
In-Reply-To: <215991081.755732.1442829023096.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <D21F57A8.73F21%juels@cornell.edu>
 <215991081.755732.1442829023096.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <329273223.1164331.1442874412740.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

For some reason, my first attempt to upload this didn't seem to 'take'.      Jim Bell
 

   ----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
 To: Ari Juels <juels at cornell.edu> 
Cc: "runting at gmail.com" <runting at gmail.com>; "akosba at cs.umd.edu" <akosba at cs.umd.edu>; Cpunks List <cypherpunks at cpunks.org> 
 Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 2:50 AM
 Subject: Re: Your paper on criminal contracts
   
Your paper:    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwiF_b_E7IfIAhWQmIgKHc_tAuY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpublic_gyges.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmHTOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=L_lh-zCi016f7Y3jbKVKlQ&bvm=bv.103073922,d.cGU
Thank you for your reply, Dr. Juels, 
Once you read my essay, I think you will understand my concern about the motivation for your research, and its potential consequences.   Superficially, and certainly to someone unfamiliar with my idea (Assassination Politics essay),  I'm sure it sounds useful and indeed beneficial to try to prevent the construction and operation of "criminal contracts".   One problem that I see, as a lifetime libertarian, is that "criminal" may mean no more than "what the government wants to ban" rather than an actual victim crime.  Worse, governments are powerfully motivated to prevent developments that will someday likely destroy them.
I suggest that you study the analyses of Bob Vroman  http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=009ape    ,    http://www.mail-archive.com/cypherpunks-moderated at minder.net/msg02068.html     and  of Bob Murphy,  www.anti-state.com/murphy/murphy17.html   (although the Murphy essay might not be available, except as an archive.)  as well as by R.  Sukumaran   http://www.idsa.in/strategicanalysis/CryptologyDigitalAssassinationandtheTerrorismFuturesMarket_rsukumaran_0404.html. 
Further, consider

 https://github.com/isislovecruft/patternsinthevoid/blob/master/content/anarchism/game-theory-anarchism-ii-how-information-can-smash-the-state.md
https://c4ss.org/content/1157

series -- anti-state.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2jo578/arguments_for_against_insurrectionist_ancapism/


There is a lot more where this comes from.

Keep in mind that when I wrote the AP essay, technologies such as Tor, Bitcoin, and especially Ethereum and Augur simply did not exist. But today they do, or at least they soon will.  And that, I consider to be an extremely good thing.
So perhaps you will understand that I consider that trying to prevent _all_ "criminal contracts" from being formed is a major, and indeed dangerous mistake.  While I do not believe that such an effort can ever succeed, I think it would be best not to try.
          Jim Bell

    

  From: Ari Juels <juels at cornell.edu>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "runting at gmail.com" <runting at gmail.com>; "akosba at cs.umd.edu" <akosba at cs.umd.edu> 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:32 PM
 Subject: Re: Your paper on criminal contracts
   
Dear Mr. Bell,
Thank you for your original note and follow-up. We’re indeed planning to read your essay and cite it as appropriate in our next paper revision (slated to come out in January).
Yours,
AJ


From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Sep 21 21:06:40 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 04:06:40 +0000
Subject: Would you work if you =?UTF-8?B?ZGlkbuKAmXQgaGF2ZSB0bz8=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+LVwYv00FLGPkCpCYkvaELnyEOTeP2wroPg223O_VE+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2r+LVwYv00FLGPkCpCYkvaELnyEOTeP2wroPg223O_VE+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5600D3D0.1070906@riseup.net>

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Hash: SHA512

I agree with l.

Essentially what a true BI would do (implemented broadly across the
globe, at least) is to make this society even worse than it already
is, with Cloud Atlas being a good analogy.

It's interesting that few have paused to consider the potential
ramifications of guaranteeing resources for anyone (and I don't think
rehashing examples from Alaska and Saudi Arabia are helpful), but
haven't hesitated to demand that your resources be taken by and
allocated here and there by actors and representatives of dubious
quality so that their plans for social and economic control can be
implemented.  Not to mention that the whole BI enterprise, to the
extent that it is reliant upon governments, is backed by coercion and
use of force.

(To the extent that a BI scheme is non-governmental, and thus not
backed by state threat of violence, imprisonment, etc., for failure to
comply, it would be less objectionable, but still come with a variety
of problems, as there would always be "BI allocators" (e.g. BI policy
or BI core developers, whose decisions affect groups or populations)
and corporate or autonomous actors whose interests would automatically
disregard those of individuals and collectively organized resistance
entities (COREs)).  I consider that these concerns, which I think l.
has properly identified and which I also echo here, apply to
http://groupcurrency.org/ and other ideas which are similar in concept.

As l. correctly stated, "(BI) will create a future where nobody is
willing to revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control."

I would propose as a better system than BI would be a truly voluntary
system (that does not include BI, but which would allow people to
conduct any sort of transactions they like) where people have the
opportunity to choose what sort of direction they want their resources
to go while also opening the door to helping as many people as
possible in the context of their transactions ~ without relying upon
statism, violence, or use of force.

In the coming days, please see https://bytecoin.org/ where there will
soon be some updates relative to this very notion (two use cases of
ABIS (http://abis.io) in BCN), to be in the 1.0.8 graphic wallet
version, currently scheduled for release on Sep 29 or 30, 2015.  (This
version may possibly end up coming out a bit later, as date of release
is estimated, thus keep your eyes peeled.)

- -O

Lodewijk andré de la porte:
> 2015-09-18 18:33 GMT+02:00 grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>:
> 
>> Some balancing is needed, so we talk of BI, wealth leveling, 
>> universal healthcare, education, etc. This is natural control,
>> happens when puppeteers make up 1% of 99% puppeted. As in
>> history, if left unbalanced too long or deep, the slaves revolt
>> and reboot.
>> 
> 
> This is one possible outcome -- but this is FAR from a revolt.
> 
> Just as likely is the outcome where Basic Income cattle is herded
> into cheap everything arrangements, where they're offered "fun and
> fulfilling" work for non-market pay. These humans will be entirely
> economically detached. The overlords will reap their Basic Income,
> and allow them to live month by month. (note: this already happens,
> you walk in a Hyundai/Samsung build appartment block, where Lotte
> runs all the supermarkets, and all the entertainment is provided by
> CJ, Koreans don't fear big-corps, so they don't hide it, but I
> think this is probably true in many places of the world)
> 
> Or, as in the amazing Cloud Atlas, we will create a caste-like
> society with "producers", "consumers" and perhaps some other groups
> ("politicians"? "Celebrities"?).
> 
> We may move from 99% to 99.9% puppets. It's just a way to
> generalize the population, to silence the masses, to present
> happiness and freedom to be guaranteed for all. Without alarm the
> watchers will turn to sleep, and under that dark moon the world
> will change.
> 
> Simply put, it solves some problems but not all of them. BI can
> potentially worsen the situation.
> 
> I think the immediate gain of guaranteed personal freedoms; freedom
> from labor, freedom to self-improve, freedom to perform altruism,
> freedom to perform art, and yes, even freedom to party, are worth a
> great deal. Yet, it will create a future where nobody is willing to
> revolt, and the state is in even further reaching control.
> 
> It also just upsets my minimal-government-preference somewhat. I
> just don't like the idea of people living off of money I earned. It
> only makes sense because money is already an abstract and perverted
> item, and because basic needs will soon drop much further in their
> cost. (Especially if cheap living becomes a greater priority)
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Sep 21 15:30:48 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:30:48 +1000
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2260447.vSYqM4TtRI@lapuntu> <55FF7F0D.9000104@echeque.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56008518.6000302@echeque.com>

>> Does it not strike you as odd that whenever there is a protest in favor
>> of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive regimes,
>> the protestors are generally carrying signs in English?

On 2015-09-21 9:14 PM, rysiek wrote:
> I don't know, man, when I was protesting against ACTA I was carrying signs in
> English too. And that was in Poland. This might be related to the idea that
> once you're protesting, you want international media to pick up the story.

If you are trying to influence poles and the polish government, why the 
"international media"?

What it actually means is that you are asking the American elite and the 
New York Times to live up to its professed principles and go easy on 
Poland - acknowledging that that US is the hegemon.

Nothing terribly wrong with this on ACTA, an international treaty.  But 
when you are supposedly revolting against your own government, seeking 
the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive regime, appealing for US 
support is treason against your local elites and local people.





From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Sep 21 15:43:47 2015
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:43:47 +1000
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Would_you_work_if_you_didn=e2=80=99t_have_to=3f?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rK+1bs4YVRGYD-YKwVHb0c7q56kz0=o14Dhx+b6b2gJPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D5D2BE0D80FE43D6BC304C32DEBBC3FB@atii>
 <CAOsGNSSK3tQg6+X4vkr-AVDSP9myCEiKXuw2UN50TxtKVURySA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rJyYL8Ug45ftUNHRtZXWkm7KMb7LUAqrYUe_pDxajJ3CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_v4ZVNUX1ev0NVUnchZbmenv=goGC7fgw_kLc-bn7M_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2r+LVwYv00FLGPkCpCYkvaELnyEOTeP2wroPg223O_VE+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rK+1bs4YVRGYD-YKwVHb0c7q56kz0=o14Dhx+b6b2gJPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56008823.6010400@echeque.com>

On 2015-09-21 9:55 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:
> I meant this would practically guarantee everyone the funds to be
> healthy, choose one's daily activity freely, and for lack of want be happy.

Poor people are not poor for lack of money.  They can win the lottery, 
and still remain poor.





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Sep 22 10:16:40 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:16:40 -0700
Subject: FCC NPRM seeks to end open SDR
In-Reply-To: <N1B-_VOONnkbVN@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-_VOONnkbVN@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <56018CF8.6010500@riseup.net>

It was so much simpler when all I had to do was clip the end of one
lousy diode to open my TS-440 up from DC to Daylight... The Alinco 2/440
dual-bander did the same with one zero-ohm resistor removal.

On 09/21/2015 01:54 PM, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net wrote:
> Since the early days of open SDR these devices have been sold as test equipment which does not require onerous type approvals or certifications by the manufacturer or importer. The FCC now seeks to change this 
>
> https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/08/06/2015-18402/equipment-authorization-and-electronic-labeling-for-wireless-devices#h-13
>
> and require product features which block software changes after manufacture. This, of course, is the very heart of SDR and its prohibition would be nothing short of effectively banning SDR and any open source experimentation with RF signal processing beyond the theoretic.
>
> WW


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Sep 22 10:30:09 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:30:09 -0700
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>

On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
> They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in the US; 
> systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar* ways (oligarchy running 
> things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly we simply 
> cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand *anything* more 
> complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA GOOD" (or the 
> other way around) worldview.

For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been "Good
Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically indigenous
people-d extractive resources nations (and in other ways against the
west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND Russia. Either you pick one
side or the other or we have a war in YOUR country where YOUR people get
killed and your society/way of life destroyed. There are no "nice guys".
On the other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is accused of warmongering
for doing what allies are supposed to do. Come to their defense in the
traditional manner against an army of mercenaries that the West claims
on one hand to be fighting, and on the other, had a large part in it's
creation.

Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in denial
while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the Libyans we hired to
sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords, and if the Russians want to
eradicate that threat to Syria and the region, have at it.

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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:19:25 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:19:25 -0300
Subject: Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <9F88CEB5-0C6D-4443-BE62-1731BFEC1F7E@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.100.1441862357.1742.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
 <9F88CEB5-0C6D-4443-BE62-1731BFEC1F7E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B2uLoiLRXgKaZAMv-fGs8oEJg7zv-eFWsD5NcXzVCdVeA@mail.gmail.com>

This Bitnation think looks like a shiny turd. And has been going on for a
while.

The few things they actually do are not new in idea nor implementation. The
rest is either crap (like 'we offer visa prepaid cards nao') or marketing
smoke. The real bitcoin happens on #bitcoin-assets, not in these peripheral
scampanies.

Scammers will tell you that the blockchain will suck you off and resolve
your decentralized disputes in the shiny cloud of the internet of things,
or any such nonsense shit, if they expect to get money/attention/press for
it.



On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 4:19 AM, <tigrutigru at gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems like there's a confusion between contracts and cryotocontracts?
>
> > On 10 Sep 2015, at 7:19 am, cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org wrote:
> >
> > Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
> >    cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> >      (Lodewijk andré de la porte)
> >   2. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Bryan Bishop)
> >   3. Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting. (Martin Becze)
> >   4. Repbin release v0.0.2 (ryan.pear at ownbay.net)
> >   5. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (jim bell)
> >   6. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> >      Russia (rysiek)
> >   7. Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> >      Russia (Juan)
> >   8. Re: Repbin release v0.0.2 (rysiek)
> >   9. Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Rich Jones)
> >  10. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (Ben Mezger)
> >  11. John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> >      (grarpamp)
> >  12. Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram (grarpamp)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:30:53 +0200
> > From: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> > To: Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
> >
> > I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
> to.
> Everyone loves ideas that Bitnation put their brand on.
> >
> > I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> > marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> > Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
> Exactly. Proof-of-existence. I don't understand what it has to do with
> Bitnation brand. Someone just wants to look cool. What exactly Bitnationare
> building?
> >
> > Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
> > enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
> >
> > I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> > church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> > explained in contract.
> Yes. Obligations can be explained. Still people go to courts and dispute
> contracts. These are text.
> > Contracts can go onto a blockchain.
> Contracts which go on the blockchain have nothing to do with legal
> contracts. Parts of the text (legal) contracts can be hooked to a smart
> contract I guess.
> I guess if a married couple has a dispute over digital property or btc in
> a wallet, let's say a script can manage it, but how the script (smart
> contract) will know who in this particular dispute did what. Even with no
> details and subtleties involved.
> > Generic. Neat.
> > Unpretentious.
> >
> > Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> Ideas are nice. They're not necessarily coming from Bitnation. Proof of
> existence, or Blockchain ID for example were existing ideas which had
> functioning prototypes. They just don't make it sound grandiose.
>
> Bitnation has a claim to be a software project and afaik has a presale of
> a currency - either premined or non existent - I don't remember. I'm fine
> with that type of crowdfunding if there is some sort of product or a
> service behind it or an attempt to build it. I don't think that
> contemporary art project should pretend to be a software project or pretend
> that it can realistically offer serious services or replace existing ones.
> It's cool as a concept project.
>
>
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 11:39:51 -0500
> > From: Bryan Bishop <kanzure at gmail.com>
> > To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>, Bryan Bishop
> >    <kanzure at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CABaSBax3zoGtBbegRTp-sXU6TspAF6MuRQXo1Q4QH7UX8jjuTw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <
> l at odewijk.nl>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> >
> >
> >
> http://cointelegraph.com/news/112725/bitnation-core-dev-team-resigns-speaks-out-before-crowdsale
> >
> > - Bryan
> > http://heybryan.org/
> > 1 512 203 0507
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:41:56 +0000
> > From: Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com>
> > To: Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >> somewhat off
> > Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all
> of
> > the developers that were working on the project quite.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
> >>
> >> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
> >> to.
> >>
> >> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
> >> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
> >> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
> >>
> >> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things
> like
> >> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
> >>
> >> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
> >> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
> >> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic.
> Neat.
> >> Unpretentious.
> >>
> >> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20150909/61c2be57/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:53:35 +0000
> > From: ryan.pear at ownbay.net
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID: <dc79b21789e51d8b7a236d53497ae04a at ownbay.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > We're happy to announce the release v0.0.2 of Repbin:
> > The replicated, encrypted, distributed and anonymized pastebin.
> >
> > Changes include: Better terminal usability, sqlite/mysql backend,
> > binaries!
> >
> > Check here for release source code and client binaries:
> > https://github.com/repbin/repbin/releases/tag/v0.0.2
> >
> > About Repbin:
> > Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> > Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> > each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> > resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> > and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> > denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> > algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >
> > Learn more about Repbin here:
> > https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
> > To: "ryan.pear at ownbay.net" <ryan.pear at ownbay.net>,
> >    "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID:
> >    <1726332927.1564988.1441835336954.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >> About Repbin:
> >> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over Tor!
> >> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> >> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> >> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> >> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> >> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> >> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >> Learn more about Repbin here:
> >> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> > Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work
> with the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could use a
> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is
> valuable to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a
> bitcoin-mining engine, I don't know.              Jim Bell
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> > From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> >    Russia
> > Message-ID: <6619420.kEgClR5EXu at lapuntu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> >> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing Snowden
> >> documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to the US."
> >>
> >> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the Broadcasting
> >> Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> >
> > The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't automagically
> make B
> > not evil.
> >
> > The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia don't
> > really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia magically
> > okay.
> >
> > Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
> USA-Russia
> > relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> >
> > --
> > Pozdrawiam,
> > Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> >
> > Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> > GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > URL: <
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 20:02:34 -0300
> > From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in
> >    Russia
> > Message-ID: <55f0b996.6a15370a.19c54.ffff9df5 at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:52:47 +0200
> > rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> >
> >> Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 08:21:36 John Young pisze:
> >>> This from the journalists who check with USG before publishing
> >>> Snowden documents as Snowden allegedly requires "to avoid harm to
> >>> the US."
> >>>
> >>> Fingerpointing at Putin is obligatory for those working the
> >>> Broadcasting Board of Governors propaganda beat.
> >>
> >> The fact that A is evil, and A is B's adversary, doesn't
> >> automagically make B not evil.
> >
> >
> >    Kindly point out where  JY said the russian government was not
> >    evil.
> >
> >>
> >> The fact that there's a lot wrong with US of A, and USA and Russia
> >> don't really cooperate well, does not make what's happening in Russia
> >> magically okay.
> >
> >
> >    Kindly point out where JY said that what's happening in russia
> >    (whatever that is) is okay.
> >
> >
> >    On the other hand rysiek given your laughable & constant
> >    defense of the pentagon-funded tor-cunts, you are not really in
> >    a position to be pointing too many fingers.
> >
> >>
> >> Why there's so many people defending Russian system just because
> >> USA-Russia relations are not superfriendly is beyond me.
> >
> >    ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:47:31 +0200
> > From: rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: Repbin release v0.0.2
> > Message-ID: <6193628.0yFTp10ebS at lapuntu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dnia środa, 9 września 2015 21:48:56 jim bell pisze:
> >>> About Repbin:
> >>> Repbin is an encrypted pastebin for the command line that runs over
> Tor!
> >>> Repbin servers form a distributed network where nodes sync posts with
> >>> each other (like in Usenet or BBS/Fido systems). This makes Repbin
> >>> resilient and scalable. Repbin focuses on privacy (encrypted messages)
> >>> and anonymity (padding and repost chains). To limit spam and
> >>> denial-of-service attacks, Repbin uses the Hashcash proof-of-work
> >>> algorithm which is widely known from Bitcoin mining.
> >>> Learn more about Repbin here:
> >>> https://github.com/repbin/repbin/blob/master/README.md
> >>
> >> Has anybody ever considered the idea of doing otherwise-useful CPU work
> with
> >> the power currently expended  by computing hashes in Bitcoin mining?
> >
> > My dream would be a distributed github replacement (a'la gitchain) where
> > proof-of-work is somehow related to compilation, running tests, or
> somesuch.
> >
> >> The most obvious application would be weather forecasting:  It could
> use a
> >> huge amount of computation, on a continuously ongoing basis, and is
> valuable
> >> to every nation on earth.  Whether it can be lasso'ed into a
> bitcoin-mining
> >> engine, I don't know.
> >
> > Probably not -- the "thing" mined has to be easily verifiable by other
> nodes.
> > How does one verify a weather forecast in such a setting? ;)
> >
> > --
> > Pozdrawiam,
> > Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> >
> > Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> > GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > URL: <
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:08:09 -0700
> > From: Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net>
> > To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CADJYzxKfpgMZX4uEb9R=xvJvNCYEvhNsDtFx9G_OYkRtoz1Qdg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >
> > "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new
> foreign
> > hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
> >
> > https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >
> > Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >
> > R
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20150909/b3bf6a0f/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:25:29 -0300
> > From: Ben Mezger <mezger.benjamin at gmail.com>
> > To: miserlou at gmail.com
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID: <m2a8sv3w1i.fsf at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hmm,
> >
> > "Excuse me @telegram but ISIS are using YOUR network/application to sell
> > hostage. Please find more info. on that number!!"
> >
> > Well, I would agree with that, but that would probably break Telegram's
> > policy of "privacy", no?
> >
> > Rich Jones writes:
> >
> >> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >>
> >> "Dabiq 11 released by terror group ISIS. At the end it notes 2 new
> foreign
> >> hostages; 1 Chinese and other Norweigan."
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >>
> >> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >>
> >> R
> >
> > --
> > Sent with my mu4e
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > Desc: not available
> > URL: <
> http://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20150909/74c2a9a7/attachment-0001.sig
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:16:48 -0400
> > From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: John McAfee Runs For US President In 2016 Under Cyber Party
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAD2Ti2_2pHMEHuP=z-stYTn-NG=9u3hRsX3EcgaCUh7j0jY7Hg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > https://mcafee16.com/
> > http://cyberparty.org/
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McAfee
> > http://www.whoismcafee.com/
> > http://www.futuretensecentral.com/
> > https://twitter.com/officialmcafee
> > https://twitter.com/JohnMcAfeeStory
> > http://johnmcafeestory.com/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:18:50 -0400
> > From: grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> > To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: Hostages for Sale on Telegram
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAD2Ti29=9pK1sMjiu1+YGOMrPexrHpEk4mb36HF4ZxKj6mvY3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
> >> More for the ISIS-loves-"Secure"-Messaging-Apps folder:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBNVMk_AGs
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surespot
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickr
> >
> https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/06/07/developers-silence-raises-concern-about-surespot-encrypted-messenger/
> >
> > https://twitter.com/cybercaliphate
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=cybercaliphate
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=cyphercaliphate
> >
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COOxuq-WIAAG8pQ.jpg
> > https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=cyber+caliphate
> >
> >
> http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+vs+the+ISIS+Cyber+Caliphate++War+in+the+Middle+East+Goes+Digital/article37154.htm
> >
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/isis-hacker-group-cyber-caliphate-hacks-article-1.2067634
> >
> https://news.vice.com/article/the-islamic-states-top-hacker-was-killed-in-a-us-drone-strike
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junaid_Hussain
> > https://www.youtube.com/user/TeaMp0ison/videos
> >
> http://homeland.house.gov/sites/homeland.house.gov/files/documents/06-03-15-McCaul-Open.pdf
> > https://twitter.com/p_vanostaeyen/status/639165071072038913
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN7FPdKXAAEucGl.jpg
> > https://twitter.com/lorenzoFB/status/638818414958477312
> >
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-launches-secret-drone-campaign-to-hunt-islamic-state-leaders-in-syria/2015/09/01/723b3e04-5033-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html
> >
> >
> >> https://twitter.com/DrPartizan_/status/641671841380179968
> >> Click through for pictures and Telegram number.
> >
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WwAAmKzB.jpg
> > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COetId6WIAAJGAg.jpg
> > +9647705648252
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cypherpunks mailing list
> > cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 27, Issue 14
> > *******************************************
>
>


-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:27:23 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:27:23 -0300
Subject: Bitnation system. Looks interesting.
In-Reply-To: <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1436476633.3579869.1441778432229.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <55EFD349.3060704@riseup.net>
 <CAHWD2r+C+NXJ3Q-W=Bt5T+9=3ncfUwjvQVmT7Gqdn56MDydvyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALz06g5h4ETE3bnKdKbXCDnNvHUCnAFWXgXK=86tEaXfZs7i5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B2dUEx0Y7t5NhmKLXi86xjVtASatCLZsMx0n6Repq41yw@mail.gmail.com>

wut? you didn't expect us to actually do anything, did you? (:

Crowdfunding + marketing smoke was the whole business plan. The only actual
people involved left back in 2014 when it became clear the ship wasn't
going anywhere because said ship didn't even exist in the first place.

The founder's hotness is their only asset.


On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Martin Becze <mjbecze at gmail.com> wrote:

> >somewhat off
> Yeah the founder went/is crazy, there is no technical work done and all of
> the developers that were working on the project quite.
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> It's documentation is overly verbose, speculative, assuming and unclear.
>>
>> I love the idea of providing services that the government usually tends
>> to.
>>
>> I somewhat know what marriage before God means. I somewhat know what
>> marriage before the State means. I have no idea what marriage before the
>> Blockchain means. Probably no more than lovers' tree-carvings.
>>
>> Relationship to reality is the hardest part - it's also where things like
>> enforcement starts turning it's ugly head.
>>
>> I'd argue marriage before state is an artifact of the marriage between
>> church and state. Relationships, commitments, etc, these would be better
>> explained in contract. Contracts can go onto a blockchain. Generic. Neat.
>> Unpretentious.
>>
>> Bitnation is fascinating, thought provoking, but it seems somewhat off.
>>
>
>


-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:35:14 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:35:14 -0300
Subject: M.Hearn adds privacy depriority to Bitcoin XT, calls your
 Tor/Proxy/etc use "unimportant"
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-BVgv+KEPwYytJr_GgfvPRv0is+ZjR2WYev7R_0q3jsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-BVgv+KEPwYytJr_GgfvPRv0is+ZjR2WYev7R_0q3jsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B3gr1coA1fcd6jT41J=oqZqEm0V+3pKVWQvXuhF8rPBKg@mail.gmail.com>

Because the XT stands for nsa-eXTensions.

No really, Hearn is a joke, has been consistently working to weaken bitcoin
since 2013.

In any case nobody gives a dime about XT:
https://bitbet.us/bet/1191/the-hearn-gavin-scamcoin-will-fizzle-in-2016/

But they are still trying to push the hardfork and other assorted shit in
BIP100/BIP101 etc.


On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 11:07 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-August/010379.html
>
> https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/commit/73c9efe74c5cc8faea9c2b2c785a2f5b68aa4c23
>
> Bitcoin XT contains an unmentioned addition which periodically downloads
> lists of Tor IP addresses for blacklisting, this has considerable privacy
> implications for hapless users which are being prompted to use the
> software. The feature is not clearly described, is enabled by default,
> and has a switch name which intentionally downplays what it is doing
> (disableipprio). Furthermore these claimed anti-DoS measures are
> trivially bypassed and so offer absolutely no protection whatsoever.
> ...
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 22 03:39:43 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:39:43 +0300
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <56006024.50903@librelamp.com>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>
 <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FFE2D1.5050308@m-o-o-t.org> <56006024.50903@librelamp.com>
Message-ID: <20150922103943.GA2691@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 12:53:08PM -0700, Alice Wonder wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/21/2015 03:58 AM, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
> >>secp112r1 : SECG/WTLS curve over a 112 bit prime field
> >>secp112r2 : SECG curve over a 112 bit prime field
> >
> >Yes. Pwnable.
> >
> 
> I did not ask the question but thank you for your answer. I was a
> math major back in the early 90s but never really went that way
> career wise, but with the weak DH parameter revelations this topic
> has suddenly become a lot more interesting to me, and clearly I have
> a lot to learn. It is nice to see answers like yours that I can at
> least somewhat comprehend without hours of research.
> 
> And I think that is part of the problem, while all programming
> involves some math, most of us do not have good enough of a grasp of
> cryptography to understand when we are doing something that can be
> broken or circumvented.


(CC'ing cypherpunks at cpunks.org for trolling reasons).

Your argument raises the question about the soundness
of the so called ``theory of many eyes''.

libressl/openssl ship elliptic curves of low quality,
and they can be detected by man documented command.

The low quality of the curves can be checked by going
to wikipedia's page about ECC dlog records.

AFAICT they probably implemented backdoored RFC (don't 
know if they knew it is backdoored).

This raises the question about more obscure features
buried in, say, obscure macros, misleading comments, etc.

No math knowledge required, but the low quality curves are weaker
that the backdoored DSA via generic dlog attack, unless
DSA allows much faster dlog in the small subgroup by 
exploiting the sub-exponential attack of dlog modulo $p$
(or some other attack).





From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:43:12 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:43:12 -0300
Subject: Old-style encryption
In-Reply-To: <708199893.371667.1438623176165.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <708199893.371667.1438623176165.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B0BTaVenMvz5BjSUv-dH8j_5YL3v4QpkKWt6ct+RCch_g@mail.gmail.com>

This is hilarious, the illiterate developing their own cryptosystems and
getting pwned.

Not being stupid doesn't mean one has to 'know everything'*, it's knowing
what you can and what you can't do. And yes, its a requirement. Even for
criminal endeavors.


* ignorance is fine, as long as one is aware of it.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 2:32 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/italy-cracks-mafia-sheep-code-arrest-godfathers-henchmen-111947663.html
>
> Italy cracks Mafia sheep code to arrest Godfather's henchmen
>
> By Ella Ide 1 hour ago
>
> Rome (AFP) - Italian police on Monday arrested 11 suspects linked to the
> fugitive head of the Sicilian Mafia, including a former boss who ran a
> secret message system for the mobster using a sheep-based code.
> Matteo Messina Denaro, 53, who has been on the run since 1993, used a farm
> in Mazara del Vallo to communicate with his henchmen via the aged-old
> method of "pizzini", bits of paper containing messages often written in
> cipher, police said.
> Among those arrested was former boss Vito Gondola, 77, whose job it was to
> call the clan members to alert them to each new message, which was placed
> under a rock in a field at the farm and often destroyed on the spot after
> reading.
> "I've put the ricotta cheese aside for you, will you come by later?" he
> would say on the telephone -- a phrase investigators said had nothing to do
> with dairy products.
> "The sheep need shearing... the shears need sharpening" and "the hay is
> ready", were among other code phrases used to alert the gang to a new
> message, written on tightly folded bits of paper wrapped in Sellotape and
> then hidden in the dirt.
> The police investigation, which followed the passing of messages between
> 2011 and 2014, used hidden cameras and microphones around the farm near
> Trapani in western Sicily to follow the movements of the clan -- and
> discover Denaro's fading glory.
> View gallery
>
> Gondola is caught in one conversation telling another mobster that Denaro
> -- once a trigger man who reportedly boasted he could "fill a cemetery"
> with his victims -- was losing control over the latest generation of
> criminals, who "disappear without saying anything".
> - 'State win, Mafia loses' -
> Three of those arrested were over 70 years old.
> The only known photos of Denaro date back to the early 1990s. He is
> believed to be the successor of the godfathers Toto Riina and Bernardo
> Provenzano, who are both serving life sentences, but less is known about
> him.
> At the height of his power he had a reputation as a flashy, ruthless
> womaniser who ruled over at least 900 men with an iron fist.
> View gallery
>
> The 11 suspects arrested "were the men who were closest to Denaro right
> now," said police official Renato Cortese, adding that it was "too early to
> say" whether the sting would help investigators close in on the fugitive.
> Prime Minister Matteo Renzi thanked the investigators in a message on his
> Facebook page, saying onwards all, to finally capture the super-fugitive
> boss," insisting "Italy is united against organised crime" despite a recent
> slew of corruption scandals in the country.
> "The state wins, the Mafia loses," Interior Minister Angelino Alfano said
> on Twitter.
> Gondola, who despite his age rose every morning at 4 am to tend to his
> flock, is believed to have once been a right-hand man to Riina. In the
> 1970s he belonged to a gang used by the Mafia to carry out kidnappings,
> according to Italian media reports.
> The Sicilian Mafia, known as "Cosa Nostra" or "Our Thing", was the
> country's most powerful organised crime syndicate in the 1980s and 1990s,
> but has seen its power diminish following years of investigations and mass
> arrests.
> It also faces fierce underworld competition from the increasingly powerful
> Naples-based Camorra and Calabria's 'Ndrangheta.
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:50:50 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:50:50 -0300
Subject: Bitcoin exchanges.
In-Reply-To: <55A64AB4.2080902@riseup.net>
References: <CAFqg5u011NBtO9dWYdOfXkt5Wt4Qb+Qa8REEb_RnNonpmnAD5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <ACE18C91-49CA-4888-9B10-0397626274EF@gmail.com> <55A637F3.2020401@riseup.net>
 <55A64AB4.2080902@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B1z4GvGxtXa2p3F8gr8chsnCfZbN61bADXKMhAdG3ViHA@mail.gmail.com>

Either find a local broker (cash for bitcoin) or learn to use the wot (
https://bitcoin-otc.com/
http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2015/explore-the-web-of-trust/). Everything
else is generally a scam, at least in the sense that you'll be giving your
ass to a unknown number of agents, even if you don't get robbed right away.

Circle, Bitpay, Xapo, GoCoin etc etc etc can't be trusted. They deal in
fiat, have to submit to governments, to banks, to many parties whose
interests aren't your best. And that assuming they will not run away with
the coins, which shouldn't be unexpected, considering for instance that
gold has been confiscated by governments before.


On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 07/15/2015 04:37 AM, odinn wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > Re. your "untraceable" remarks, bitcoin is not untraceable. It's
> > basically transparent.  There are a few things that have been added
> > recently to enhance privacy, but sorry, not untraceable or anonymous
> > or anything like that.
>
> | China-based Bitcoin exchange Bter has announced that it will
> | continue to operate its service and pay back all its users in
> | time, following a cyberattack that saw the company lose $1.75
> | million in cryptocurrency to hackers.
> |
> | Bter says that it managed to trace the stolen 7,170 BTC to a
> | Bitcoin mixer (a cryptocurrency laundering service) called
> | Bitcoin Fog, but hasn’t heard from the company despite
> | repeated attempts to make contact.
>
>
> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/03/12/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-bter-will-pay-back-users-after-losing-1-75-million-in-cyberattack/
>
> Bitcoin Fog is a Tor hidden service. If they can successfully launder
> 7170 BTC, that's good enough for me.
>
> <SNIP>
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:57:29 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:57:29 -0300
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>

 interesting features,
biometric shit.

Shiny turd.

Consider this: W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even
force W7 and W8 users to download it when they aren't interested in
'upgrading'. So, if the product is free for you, who is the customer?


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:17 AM, odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Well, since Windows 10 does in fact involve a planned lockout of
> anyone who wants to dual-boot linux systems, you should just dump
> Windows now if you are still using it.
>
> Here's my (somewhat dated, but updated) post on how I suggest one
> should do that (target audience is for those who don't have a lot of
> background in computer stuffs)
>
> https://odinn.cyberguerrilla.org/index.php/2014/04/02/quick-and-easy-the
> - -five-minute-method-to-leave-windows-or-mac-os/
>
> - -o
>
> On 06/02/2015 04:05 AM, Endless wrote:
> > Hello Cypherpunks!
> >
> > As many of you will likely know, Microsoft has recently made public
> > a release date for Windows 10 and has been testing the platform as
> > part of the "Windows Insider" program. With this update comes a
> > number of seemingly unoriginal [1], but nonetheless interesting
> > features, such as "Cortana", Windows' "truly personal" assistant
> > (only to be available in a handful of countries) and "Windows
> > Hello", a biometric authentication system allowing the use of the
> > face, iris, or finger for access [2].
> >
> > What changes in Windows' security are expected to take place? Will
> > systems such as Windows Hello leak uniquely identifiable biometric
> > data, despite a planned increase in security [3]? What could
> > perhaps be done to limit the risk of using systems such as a
> > cloud-based, personal assistant that is able to access most of a
> > person's internet-connected devices?
> >
> > Thankyou very much, Endless
> >
> > [1] It seems that Windows 10's flagship features such as biometric
> > authentication have already been available on a number of other
> > platforms for quite some time, not to mention the fact that the
> > name "Cortana" was used as the name for an artificial intelligence
> > character in the popular "Halo" game series (The name seems to be
> > have been used without violating intellectual property laws, as
> > Halo, having been originally developed by Bungie, Inc. is now a
> > subsidiary of Microsoft Studios).
> >
> > [2] More information regarding Microsoft's initial announcement of
> > the Windows 10 release date can be found at the following link:
> > https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/01/hello-world-windo
> ws-10-available-on-july-29/
> >
> >  [3] A blog post relating to Windows 10's planned "security perks"
> > can be found at the following link:
> > http://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-i
> dentity-protection-for-the-modern-world/
> >
> >
> - --
> http://abis.io ~
> "a protocol concept to enable decentralization
> and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
> https://keybase.io/odinn
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1
>
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> MDrhoHmGBDwZ2/K4qAqLWnAp6CoxadApHrwhxHgjxcHJI5ULF1t1jVDISBSI8nNg
> VDnoKkuxM6ufuoVO6KnbpzVKZt24HZskdP2tSTHkK7ABtZFwv/x1XZ+w+oR3ui36
> QVFIPkSD2LRVDbu0wWukibsksi8dig8G/11aT4JVoDBQPLUZPbkLz9LUDmnJoMFE
> hjbzwtI3nSVZtT79fV8S3BtuK6SATa9VkxxAmTN4oZMARwyXbN5K1hgh2SpXdxM=
> =A5LC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 09:58:44 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 13:58:44 -0300
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B2U53ZnxwmxbFCP=9Rhva6wTh0gjRUKUHFhbrrBQstnWw@mail.gmail.com>

But if you're willing to give your soul away in exchange for interesting
features, a talking app and biometric shit, then you're probably making a
good deal anyway. Your soul wasn't worth much in any case.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com>
wrote:

> interesting features,
> biometric shit.
>
> Shiny turd.
>
> Consider this: W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even
> force W7 and W8 users to download it when they aren't interested in
> 'upgrading'. So, if the product is free for you, who is the customer?
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:17 AM, odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Well, since Windows 10 does in fact involve a planned lockout of
>> anyone who wants to dual-boot linux systems, you should just dump
>> Windows now if you are still using it.
>>
>> Here's my (somewhat dated, but updated) post on how I suggest one
>> should do that (target audience is for those who don't have a lot of
>> background in computer stuffs)
>>
>> https://odinn.cyberguerrilla.org/index.php/2014/04/02/quick-and-easy-the
>> - -five-minute-method-to-leave-windows-or-mac-os/
>>
>> - -o
>>
>> On 06/02/2015 04:05 AM, Endless wrote:
>> > Hello Cypherpunks!
>> >
>> > As many of you will likely know, Microsoft has recently made public
>> > a release date for Windows 10 and has been testing the platform as
>> > part of the "Windows Insider" program. With this update comes a
>> > number of seemingly unoriginal [1], but nonetheless interesting
>> > features, such as "Cortana", Windows' "truly personal" assistant
>> > (only to be available in a handful of countries) and "Windows
>> > Hello", a biometric authentication system allowing the use of the
>> > face, iris, or finger for access [2].
>> >
>> > What changes in Windows' security are expected to take place? Will
>> > systems such as Windows Hello leak uniquely identifiable biometric
>> > data, despite a planned increase in security [3]? What could
>> > perhaps be done to limit the risk of using systems such as a
>> > cloud-based, personal assistant that is able to access most of a
>> > person's internet-connected devices?
>> >
>> > Thankyou very much, Endless
>> >
>> > [1] It seems that Windows 10's flagship features such as biometric
>> > authentication have already been available on a number of other
>> > platforms for quite some time, not to mention the fact that the
>> > name "Cortana" was used as the name for an artificial intelligence
>> > character in the popular "Halo" game series (The name seems to be
>> > have been used without violating intellectual property laws, as
>> > Halo, having been originally developed by Bungie, Inc. is now a
>> > subsidiary of Microsoft Studios).
>> >
>> > [2] More information regarding Microsoft's initial announcement of
>> > the Windows 10 release date can be found at the following link:
>> > https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/01/hello-world-windo
>> ws-10-available-on-july-29/
>> <https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/06/01/hello-world-windows-10-available-on-july-29/>
>> >
>> >  [3] A blog post relating to Windows 10's planned "security perks"
>> > can be found at the following link:
>> > http://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-i
>> dentity-protection-for-the-modern-world/
>> <http://blogs.windows.com/business/2014/10/22/windows-10-security-and-identity-protection-for-the-modern-world/>
>> >
>> >
>> - --
>> http://abis.io ~
>> "a protocol concept to enable decentralization
>> and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
>> https://keybase.io/odinn
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1
>>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVe8rrAAoJEGxwq/inSG8CzR4IAKW7Sx92C4z0OAof8hFVNK4Z
>> jYbaVbfghJ9pfgHFiLOMgyh/7bM5Onm+zmtMwwwwxda4X6PrvBDoqf/26fB7HTF6
>> MDrhoHmGBDwZ2/K4qAqLWnAp6CoxadApHrwhxHgjxcHJI5ULF1t1jVDISBSI8nNg
>> VDnoKkuxM6ufuoVO6KnbpzVKZt24HZskdP2tSTHkK7ABtZFwv/x1XZ+w+oR3ui36
>> QVFIPkSD2LRVDbu0wWukibsksi8dig8G/11aT4JVoDBQPLUZPbkLz9LUDmnJoMFE
>> hjbzwtI3nSVZtT79fV8S3BtuK6SATa9VkxxAmTN4oZMARwyXbN5K1hgh2SpXdxM=
>> =A5LC
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brenda Fernández
> me at brendafernandez.com
> GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
> <http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 22 05:10:46 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 14:10:46 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu> <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 21:07:59 Juan pisze:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:14:24 +0200
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 13:52:45 James A. Donald pisze:
> > > On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> > > > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for some
> > > > sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama are
> > > > actually reptilian invaders from outer space and we're all fucked
> > > > anyway.
> > > 
> > > Does it not strike you as odd that whenever their is a protest in
> > > favor of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly oppressive
> > > regimes, the protestors are generally carrying signs in English?
> > 
> > I don't know, man, when I was protesting against ACTA I was carrying
> > signs in English too. And that was in Poland. This might be related
> > to the idea that once you're protesting, you want international media
> > to pick up the story.
> > 
> > Or, maybe this whole anti-ACTA thing was US-inspired and played right
> > into the hands of our reptilian overlords.
> 
> 	So, your protest against ACTA was legitimate (true).
> 
> 	And so it follows that US imperialism doesn't exist  and that
> 	the US gov't never uses local people to further the interests
> 	of the US gov't...

No, what follows is that the "they have signs in English, and that means the 
protests must have been US-funded/influenced/etc" line of "reasoning" is 
bollocks.

Not saying US imperialism doesn't exist. But people having signs in English on 
a protest somewhere in Nowheristan is not proof. Not even close.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 22 05:26:05 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 14:26:05 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 14:05:59 Razer pisze:
> On 09/20/2015 09:01 PM, James A. Donald wrote:
> > It used to be that whenever Soviet attempts to brutally subjugate some
> > country failed, the left would cry "Evil US imperialism"
> > 
> > Now you have actual evil US imperialism happening right in front of
> > your noses, for example Haiti, and the left is in total denial.
> 
> The Cruise Missile Left is cheering all "humanitarian interventions".
> All other left-thinking Mericans have been stupidified by TeeVee.
> 
> I defer to: Amusing Ourselves To Death. Neil Postman.
> 
> Available at LibCom Anarchist library:
> 
> https://libcom.org/library/amusing-ourselves-death-public-discourse-age-show
> -business-neil-postman
> 
> The last chapter regarding Orwell or Huxley, who was right? clinches it.

Very much so. Here's a helpful infographic version:
http://rys.io/static/amusing-ourselves-to-death-huxley-orwell.png
/not mine, unfortunately/

One thing to note is that one important way we are being intellectually 
castrated is by being led to radicalizing our positions -- by the filter 
bubble, by keeping more and more to like-minded people on social media, by 
assuming "the other side" (whichever that might be in any given circumstances) 
is "inherently evil", and by assuming off the bat what the "other side" in a 
given discussion has to say. Without listening, without thinking.

This, in turn, makes it impossible to find middle ground and to *actually* 
understand the world, and to *actually* work to improve it.

Look at the US vs. Russia debate. Why the fuck does it have to be "vs."? Why 
the fuck almost every single "lefty" person that I talk to and pass on my 
concerns about what Putin (yes, personally that guy; I have no beef with 
Russians as a people) assumes that at the same time I'm saying I'm okay with 
US internal or international policies? Why if I criticize actions of the 
Russian government I am immediately assumed to be defending actions of the US?

And, on the other hand, why do people that have (rightful) grievances with US 
policies fail to even *consider* that maybe, just maybe, things in Russia 
aren't all that great and that Putin is not entirely the victim here?

They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in the US; 
systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar* ways (oligarchy running 
things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly we simply 
cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand *anything* more 
complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA GOOD" (or the 
other way around) worldview.

It sickens me.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 22 06:04:06 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:04:06 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56007137.2010503@riseup.net> <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <2997043.W3qRkFHBSs@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 22 września 2015 14:26:05 rysiek pisze:
> Why the fuck almost every single "lefty" person that I talk to and pass on
> my concerns about what Putin (yes, personally that guy; I have no beef with
> Russians as a people) assumes that at the same time I'm saying I'm okay
> with US internal or international policies?

Brainfart, my bad. Was supposed to be:

"Why the fuck almost every single "lefty" person that I talk to and pass on my
 concerns about what Putin does (yes, personally that guy; I have no beef with
 Russians as a people) assumes that at the same time I'm saying I'm okay with
 US internal or international policies?"

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 11:05:14 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu> <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>

USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters. I have no idea why
they fuck up like this, getting involved in a conflict, supporting a side
their are against to fight against the other side they are supposedly also
against, but always on paper, they will never go there be killed. So why
involve yourself in the first place other than to destroy what remains of
your reputations, what remains of your money and relevance? But it's
interesting nonetheless, to watch and see them fall, which they've been
invariably doing since Vietnam.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
> > They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in the US;
> > systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar* ways (oligarchy
> running
> > things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly we
> simply
> > cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand *anything*
> more
> > complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA GOOD" (or
> the
> > other way around) worldview.
>
> For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been "Good
> Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically indigenous
> people-d extractive resources nations (and in other ways against the
> west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND Russia. Either you pick one
> side or the other or we have a war in YOUR country where YOUR people get
> killed and your society/way of life destroyed. There are no "nice guys".
> On the other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is accused of warmongering
> for doing what allies are supposed to do. Come to their defense in the
> traditional manner against an army of mercenaries that the West claims
> on one hand to be fighting, and on the other, had a large part in it's
> creation.
>
> Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in denial
> while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the Libyans we hired to
> sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords, and if the Russians want to
> eradicate that threat to Syria and the region, have at it.
>
>


-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 22 11:09:03 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:09:03 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu> <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B1Oe060uJ39r5vUCHuwo7cHhhPWd9Wj1Gi=x0QfeQpz-w@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, wrong thread.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com>
wrote:

> USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters. I have no idea
> why they fuck up like this, getting involved in a conflict, supporting a
> side their are against to fight against the other side they are supposedly
> also against, but always on paper, they will never go there be killed. So
> why involve yourself in the first place other than to destroy what remains
> of your reputations, what remains of your money and relevance? But it's
> interesting nonetheless, to watch and see them fall, which they've been
> invariably doing since Vietnam.
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
>> > They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in the US;
>> > systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar* ways (oligarchy
>> running
>> > things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly we
>> simply
>> > cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand *anything*
>> more
>> > complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA GOOD" (or
>> the
>> > other way around) worldview.
>>
>> For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been "Good
>> Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically indigenous
>> people-d extractive resources nations (and in other ways against the
>> west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND Russia. Either you pick one
>> side or the other or we have a war in YOUR country where YOUR people get
>> killed and your society/way of life destroyed. There are no "nice guys".
>> On the other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is accused of warmongering
>> for doing what allies are supposed to do. Come to their defense in the
>> traditional manner against an army of mercenaries that the West claims
>> on one hand to be fighting, and on the other, had a large part in it's
>> creation.
>>
>> Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in denial
>> while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the Libyans we hired to
>> sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords, and if the Russians want to
>> eradicate that threat to Syria and the region, have at it.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Brenda Fernández
> me at brendafernandez.com
> GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
> <http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 13:00:53 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 16:00:53 -0400
Subject: FCC NPRM seeks to end open SDR
Message-ID: <N1B-_N3mb5zAc7@Safe-mail.net>

Rayzer,

There are clear and limited definitions, unlikely to be changed, for what legally constitutes a "radio" or a "transmitter". The "mistake" of the SDR manufacturers was to ever call or market them anything but instruments (as Red Pitya has done). When the idea of classifying them as instruments was floated in the early days of the GnuRadio list (by Steve Schear) he cautioned to make sure the products weren't called anything that might even vaguely sound like a wireless device. Evidently the marketing people at these companies knew better.

End-user controlled software signal generation and capture techniques are now widely in use by premium instrument manufacturers. If the FCC attempts to curtail the frequencies, modulation types, etc. by these these test instruments I think there will be manufacturers screaming bloody murder.

Transmitters are generally much simpler electronically than receivers (which are much less regulated). They may be little more than a few components added to a digital circuit, as Rayzer pointed out, though that rarely leads to a generally useful device. Attaching a circuit which contains the necessary components to generate the desired digital signal (e.g., using a Direct Digital Synthesizer) and convert it to a quality analog one to a USB or on a header of a PC/SoC motherboard should provide a nice signal generator which could effectively bypass FCC enforcement (legally or otherwise).

WW




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 12:20:51 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 16:20:51 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu> <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0300
Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:

> USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters.

	there isn't any incompetence involved.

> I have no
> idea why they fuck up like this,


	right, you don't.


 getting involved in a conflict,
> supporting a side their are against to fight against the other side
> they are supposedly also against, but always on paper, they will
> never go there be killed. So why involve yourself in the first place
> other than to destroy what remains of your reputations, what remains
> of your money and relevance? But it's interesting nonetheless, to
> watch and see them fall, which they've been invariably doing since
> Vietnam.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> > On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
> > > They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in
> > > the US; systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar*
> > > ways (oligarchy
> > running
> > > things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly
> > > we
> > simply
> > > cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand
> > > *anything*
> > more
> > > complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA
> > > GOOD" (or
> > the
> > > other way around) worldview.
> >
> > For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been "Good
> > Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically indigenous
> > people-d extractive resources nations (and in other ways against the
> > west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND Russia. Either you pick
> > one side or the other or we have a war in YOUR country where YOUR
> > people get killed and your society/way of life destroyed. There are
> > no "nice guys". On the other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is
> > accused of warmongering for doing what allies are supposed to do.
> > Come to their defense in the traditional manner against an army of
> > mercenaries that the West claims on one hand to be fighting, and on
> > the other, had a large part in it's creation.
> >
> > Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in
> > denial while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the Libyans
> > we hired to sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords, and if the
> > Russians want to eradicate that threat to Syria and the region,
> > have at it.
> >
> >
> 
> 





From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 14:59:24 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 17:59:24 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re: Would you work if you didn=E2=80=99t have to??=
Message-ID: <N1B-T5QVEV6w11@Safe-mail.net>

I recently watched Zeitgeist 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_%28film_series%29#Synopsis_2 
At least for the documentary's first half offers a very good and accessible indictment of the global monetary system and capitalism (as its practiced).

-------- Original Message --------
From: Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: Jim <jim.sovereign at optusnet.com.au>
Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
Subject: Re: Would you work if you didn’t have to?
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:33:40 +0000

> Hi Jim, I remember suggesting this to M about 5 or 6 years ago. I have
> not looked into the economics of it (i.e. how Australia's national
> budget could make it work) and so it was heartwarming, or at least
> very interesting to me, to read the article you forwarded which had a
> few (small) examples in the last century where this has been trialed -
> and that in at least one example, inflation went down, not up, quite
> contrary to "normal economist" expectations!
> 
> Very, very interesting. What this tells us, is that "the abundance
> community" (or rather nation), can indeed work - and with robotics and
> automation being spearheaded heavily this year by Japan we may well
> need such a new economic model for nations in general. The fact that
> it has been shown it works in at least a couple examples, is generally
> great news of course.
> 
> I experience in the "free software"/"libre computing" community -
> Debian GNU/Linux, RedHat/Fedora and more, and from me-as-programmer
> experience, it is a world of abundance - hackers (the good ones - i.e.
> those who do stuff to benefit the community) essentially have an
> abundance of the raw material or tools of trade - i.e. all you need is
> a computer and away you go, you can write whatever program you think
> people might enjoy using - since electricity to run your computer is
> close to free - add a few solar cells and it is free.
> 
> So in truth all the "information worker" needs to manifest their
> creativity (besides their computer) is food and shelter - same for
> musicians and certain other creative artists etc.
> 
> And since the marginal cost (incremental cost) of duplicating a
> (digital) song, or computer program, is very close to zero dollars
> (just download it for a tiny bit of electricity expense), then when I
> give my computer program to society as free/libre software, I am
> causing an exponential benefit to society, since as many people as
> have computers, can benefit from my creation.
> 
> This is an "abundance economy" in action, and although I don't get
> wealth in this situation where I give my computer program away, I get
> credos/ ego satisfaction, recognition, esteem from my peers and or the
> users of my program, and potentially a job doing something I really
> enjoy (supporting users who benefit financially from my program, who
> are willing to pay for some support, training, and or enhancements to
> my computer program - this will normally just be the companies that
> use my program - but RedHat demonstrates that it's possible to build a
> billion-dollar company just supporting free software which is pretty
> cool).
> 
> As long as I can do a bit of travel, have food in my belly and a warm
> couple of rooms to live in, I'm basically content and happy with life,
> since it is my nature to be creative (with computers) and to give away
> my creations.
> 
> Regards,
> Z
> 
> 
> On 9/18/15, Jim <jim.sovereign at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> > The idea of universal basic income will likely become a human rights issue
> > implemented by many countries due to rising under employment and
> > unemployment, caused by increased technology automation reducing the demand
> > for many jobs requiring menial or repetitive labour.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > Would you work if you didn’t have to?
> >
> > news.com.au
> > Frank Chung
> > September 17, 2015
> >
> >
> > IF YOU were paid $30,000 by the government every year without having to lift
> > a finger, would you still try to find work?
> > And if you did, would you settle for a menial job cleaning toilets, or would
> > you demand something more glamorous?
> >
> >
> > More importantly, if in the next, say, 20 years, those toilets are being
> > cleaned by robots, shouldn’t those now out-of-work toilet cleaners have a
> > right to that $30,000?
> >
> > These are the questions at the heart of the debate over unconditional basic
> > income — an unconventional policy idea which argues every person should be
> > paid a standard amount, regardless of whether they are working or not.
> >
> > Like the dole, it’s meant to make sure every person in society can meet
> > basic living standards. But it differs, in that there is no work requirement
> > or means test — meaning you could have a job and pocket the $30,000 cash on
> > top of your wage, or not work at all and live off the $30,000 alone.
> >
> > Some conservatives like the idea because it would theoretically streamline
> > and simplify complex systems of social security payments and subsidies,
> > cutting down administrative costs.
> >
> > It’s already being trialled in the Netherlands with 300 residents of the
> > town of Utrecht among a number of Dutch pilot sites, while the Indian
> > government has also embraced the idea, and previous small-scale experiments
> > have been hailed as great successes.
> >
> > A new lobby group has formed in the US, Basic Income Action, to coincide
> > with the eighth International Basic Income Week, and the campaign to give
> > every human being a basic minimum wage, no questions asked, appears to be
> > picking up steam.
> >
> > The group, taking a cue from recent similar campaigns around gay marriage
> > and marijuana legalisation, has launched a petition calling on US
> > presidential candidates to support basic income.
> >
> > “Basic income is a remarkably powerful and timely idea, and Basic Income
> > Action will be a great resource for longtime activists and people who are
> > learning about this for the first time,” said Steven Shafarman, author of
> > the upcoming book The Basic Income Imperative.
> >
> > It’s not a new idea, but with rising under- and unemployment, increasing
> > cost of living and low to negative real wage growth — not to mention the
> > growing automation of menial jobs — basic income has become a popular cause
> > of the Left.
> >
> > Canadian author Naomi Klein recently released a manifesto which, along with
> > universal childcare and an end to international trade deals, called for a
> > universal basic income.
> >
> > Next year, Switzerland will hold a referendum on the issue after a petition
> > gained more than 100,000 signatures, although the government has come out
> > against the idea, urging its citizens to vote ‘no’.
> >
> > It’s an idea which appeals to both sides of the political spectrum.
> >
> > Classic liberal economists including Milton Friedman supported the idea in
> > the form of a ‘reverse tax’, or a threshold under which, rather than the
> > government taking your money, it pays you.
> >
> > Progressives, who often throw around terms like ‘wage slavery’ when
> > discussing universal income, see it as a way of expanding the social safety
> > net and elevating the human condition above the drudgery of performing
> > soul-crushing jobs just to survive.
> >
> > The key question is whether people can be trusted not to sit around doing
> > nothing. Conservatives naturally assume the worst of people, while
> > progressives hope for the best.
> >
> > Arguments against the idea are generally that one, we can’t possibly afford
> > it; and two, it would dampen labour market participation by removing
> > incentive to work, putting greater tax pressure on those who do.
> >
> > A study conducted 40 years ago in the tiny Canadian farming town of Dauphin,
> > Manitoba, found the payments actually had a “social multiplier effect”, and
> > despite the fears of a dip in labour, people still had the incentive to work
> > more hours rather than less.
> >
> > One big danger in implementing such a system, however, would be pressure
> > from the welfare lobby to apply different loadings for various interest
> > groups, undermining the generic distribution.
> >
> > Mikayla Novak, senior research fellow with free-market think-tank the
> > Institute of Public Affairs, wrote in 2013 that while basic income was a
> > seductive idea for people of “varied philosophical persuasions”, it could
> > “risk ending up as another initiative in which good intentions do not align
> > with desirable results”.
> >
> > Another common criticism of basic income is that it would lead to inflation
> > — if everyone has more money, everything would cost more.
> >
> > Writing in Medium, basic income advocate Scott Santens provides two
> > real-world examples where that proved not to be the case: Alaska in 1982,
> > and Kuwait in 2011. In both cases, inflation actually decreased after the
> > government introduced a partial basic income to citizens.
> >
> > Supporters argue that in general, since the income is provided by the
> > government through existing, not printed money, the inflationary effects
> > should be minimal.
> >
> > He told Motherboard the momentum which was lost in the 1970s was coming back
> > and, due to advances in technology, was “here to stay”.
> >
> > “Step one to all of this is growing the conversation for basic income to a
> > critical mass and connecting the people who believe it needs to happen,” he
> > said. “And that’s what BIA is for, to grow and connect, and to win.”
> >
> > http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/would-you-work-if-you-didnt-have-to/story-fnu2pycd-1227531288369
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 15:01:35 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:01:35 -0400
Subject: LTE in Wi-Fi bands
Message-ID: <N1B-r8_DrP3ksC@Safe-mail.net>

A counter to this is to use SDR to enable WiFi mesh nets to use the LTE spectrum.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Nymble <nymble at gmail.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
Subject: LTE in Wi-Fi bands
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 10:52:09 -0700

> Cells phones in 2016 will start to use Wi-Fi bands for LTE: 
> 	http://goo.gl/s2Vsrz
> There goes our free use of spectrum.  There has been no adiquate effort by Qualcomm to demonstrate that LTE-U will compete fairly for band usage against Wi-Fi.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:52 PM, Peter Fairbrother <peter at m-o-o-t.org> wrote:
> > 
> > On 18/08/15 19:23, jim bell wrote:
> >> *From:* Peter Fairbrother <peter at m-o-o-t.org>
> >> 
> >> *Subject:* Re: Recommended Movie: "Sebastian" 1968.
> >> 
> >> On 18/08/15 03:46, jim bell wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >> Since people seem to be recommending things, I recommend the movie
> >> >> "Sebastian".  Dirk Bogarde, Susannah York.
> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIK3OYnD9MY
> >> 
> >> >> Out of date even when it was made, I think it really represents the
> >> >> cryptography situation as of the 1930's.
> >> 
> >> >Based on a screenplay by Leo Marks - author of Between Silk and Cyanide:
> >> >A Codemaker's War 1941-1945.
> >> >Essential reading. Leo was the codemaker for SOE. All hand ciphers and
> >> >agents.
> >> >He wasn't at Bletchley - who called him "the one who got away" - though,
> >> >and so no machine ciphers.
> >> >The Silk in the title was for OTPs which could be hidden in clothing
> >> >from Gestapo/SS searches.
> >> >As I said, essential reading.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> The tv show 60 Minutes spilled the beans about Enigma in 1975.
> >> http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/the-ultra-secret/
> > 
> > 
> > Not sure that was the one to spill the beans. I thought it was Winterbotham's 1974 book of the same name which first got the idea across to the public; though there was a French book in 1973 as well.
> > 
> > Like Winterbotham's book, which the TV show seems to be based on, it's also a bit confused and/or inaccurate. Much of what they tell - the conversations between Hitler and his generals, "knowing Hitler's most secret thoughts", and Hitler's message re Anzio which Gen Clark read - came from the breaking of the Lorentz SZ40, not the Enigma. Colossus, not Bombe.
> > 
> > And the Coventry story is fiction [1]. Churchill could not have been told the target from ULTRA decrypts. The ULTRA decrypts are now available in public records, and they do not mention Coventry.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [1] My theory: Probably it began as a story made up to impress the need to keep the ULTRA secret - "hey if the man at the door with the revolver who just threatened to shoot you doesn't impress you, Churchill allowed [2] the bombing of Coventry in order to keep the secret".
> > 
> > Later the story became an accusation, then a rumour, then a play - though by the time it became a play it was becoming obvious that ULTRA wasn't involved, and the motive for allowing the bombing changed to "Impressing the Americans" [3].
> > 
> > I can easily imagine someone telling Winterbotham the story (Winterbotham was the one who first told the Coventry story in public).
> > 
> > I can also imagine Winterbotham repeating the story, in confidence, in order to impress the listener with the need to keep the secret (and with W himself) so often that he didn't know whether it was true or not (he didn't claim to be personally involved).
> > 
> > Good story, and Churchill was probably capable of it - but it ain't true.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [2] not that there was anything he could have done to stop the bombing, but for the sake of the narrative ..
> > 
> > 
> > [3] requiring an even wilder suspension of belief, IME
> > 
> > 
> >> What most people didn't realize was that the controversy was due to the
> >> fact that rotor-driven cipher machines had been continued to be sold in
> >> the post-WWII era, without their weakness being recognized.  This
> >> allowed the CIA/GCHQ to continue to decrypt enciphered messages for
> >> decades afterwards.
> > 
> > 
> > Yes - but Leo Marks wasn't involved in that. He ~ stopped being a cryptographer when SOE was broken up at the end of the war.
> > 
> > What he did was hand ciphers, for agents in occupied countries - they couldn't carry cipher machines.
> > 
> > There is nothing else like Between Silk and Cyanide in the crypto literature. Crypto at the cutting edge, where a mistake is a painful death, and likely worse.
> > 
> > More, it is about how a cryptographer and his work interact with the world.
> > 
> > I would not like to have been Leo (I met him once), but hell if I don't respect him.
> > 
> > There is a TV documentary about him, called "A Very British Psycho" - an apt title.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Peter Fairbrother




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 16:11:19 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:11:19 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
 <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>
 <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <5601defb.5c28370a.349d1.ffff8438@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 14:10:46 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 21:07:59 Juan pisze:
> > On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 13:14:24 +0200
> > 
> > rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > > Dnia poniedziałek, 21 września 2015 13:52:45 James A. Donald
> > > pisze:
> > > > On 2015-09-21 1:06 PM, rysiek wrote:
> > > > > for a moment there I entertained a notion of asking you for
> > > > > some sources, but then I remembered that both Putin and Obama
> > > > > are actually reptilian invaders from outer space and we're
> > > > > all fucked anyway.
> > > > 
> > > > Does it not strike you as odd that whenever their is a protest
> > > > in favor of US domination and the overthrow of a supposedly
> > > > oppressive regimes, the protestors are generally carrying signs
> > > > in English?
> > > 
> > > I don't know, man, when I was protesting against ACTA I was
> > > carrying signs in English too. And that was in Poland. This might
> > > be related to the idea that once you're protesting, you want
> > > international media to pick up the story.
> > > 
> > > Or, maybe this whole anti-ACTA thing was US-inspired and played
> > > right into the hands of our reptilian overlords.
> > 
> > 	So, your protest against ACTA was legitimate (true).
> > 
> > 	And so it follows that US imperialism doesn't exist  and
> > that the US gov't never uses local people to further the interests
> > 	of the US gov't...
> 
> No, what follows is that the "they have signs in English, and that
> means the protests must have been US-funded/influenced/etc" line of
> "reasoning" is bollocks.


	It isn't bollocks, at all. English signs on cnn that just
	happen to match the pentagon's war propaganda are obviously
	suspect...except for biased people or people in the payroll of
	the pentagon. 

> 
> Not saying US imperialism doesn't exist. But people having signs in
> English on a protest somewhere in Nowheristan is not proof. Not even
> close.


	The signs are not proof of american imperialism. The signs are
	proof of the kind of 'conspiracy' that people partial to the
	american government deny. 
	
	American imperialism doesn't need any kind of subtle 'proofs'.
	It's part of all fucking history books since 1776.


	" reptilian overlords." 

	Don't you have anything better than that? 






> 





From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 20:31:26 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:31:26 -0700
Subject: Focusing x-rays
In-Reply-To: <56021a6d.466a8c0a.78eb9.45fa@mx.google.com>
References: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
 <802609537.39470.1442977158807.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <56021a6d.466a8c0a.78eb9.45fa@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Sets2DAvGsHTK4vkUHTbvmekDCkTWydpnftVRPDxQOwg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> 	Isn't it possible to focus any sort(frequency) of EM wave, at
> 	least in theory?

in theory, with "metamaterials", yes.

in practice this is akin to the perfect invisibility cloak problem,
full of devilish details...

a full spectrum Superlens for any EM freq would be quite handy indeed :)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:13:12 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:13:12 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/17/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> another to complete:
>
> at least 10 P25 Motorola radios at Department of State. and some not
> so pretty carpet :P
>
> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/p25count-20177/#file-54797


handily beat by the US Marshals, with 21,994 P25 radios!
  https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/p25count-20170/#file-56132

i expect the DEA will be another big buyer...


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:23:54 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:23:54 -0700
Subject: Focusing x-rays
In-Reply-To: <N1B-HValtn0Vz9@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-HValtn0Vz9@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SmETK3p7pi2Vz3NVxdojKxgb23HfMDnR8b0YPDj4DM9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> ...
> Most metamaterials perform their magic using plasmas which form inside the
> material. These plasmas can absorb, reflect, refract, etc. but there are
> cut-off frequencies related to the energy of the plasma vs. the energy of
> photons.

indeed. and while new "nano-meta-materials" or even larger composites
are being developed at reasonable operating temperatures, these too
suffer from same limitations of range.

so an idealized metamaterial implementing a superlens is what we want,
even if hopelessly distant technology wise...

one day!  :P


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 21:25:52 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:25:52 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
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 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>

most interesting reply:

asked about SCIFs at the DoJ, and they forward only to FBI:
  https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/scifcount-21229/#file-55661

surely DoJ has more SCIFs than just those used by FBI investigations?
perhaps FBI is simply SCIF steward for all DoJ components...

sending more FOIAs now, starting with processing notes. will advise,




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 18:56:54 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:56:54 -0400
Subject: Focusing x-rays
Message-ID: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>

-------- Original Message --------
From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>, "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
Subject: Re: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 21:30:32 +0000 (UTC)
 

> >Within the last couple of months, I think somebody was arrested for planning some sort of "X-ray death ray". http://nypost.com/2015/08/18/kkk-member-built-death-ray-machine-to-kill-muslims-and-obama-prosecutors-say/     But only a dweeb doesn't know that X-rays cannot be focussed.  (With one very obscure exception not applicable here.  Find it and get an "attaboy!". )
> 
> Its called Grazing Incidence
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics
>  
>  
> >Microwaves, OTOH, can be focussed rather easily.  The frequency is 2.45 Ghz, at about 1 Kilowatt.  (wavelength about 12 centimeters.)  I'd have to consult a Radio Amateur's handbook, but a modern dish (intended or Directv or Dish network) could probably get 15-20 db of gain, compared with isotropic.  An old-style 8-foot dish probably would do 30 db gain.  That would be 100 kilowatts ERP.
>  
> >Such an unshielded  (open) device would probably impair WiFi at 2.5 Ghz severely, if you're close to it, say a few hundred feet away.  Fortunately, I think microwave ovens have better than 60 db of shielding.  A few 10s of feet, away, hardware damage might occur if that full 1 kw were allowed to leak out.
>            Jim Bell
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 20:16:01 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:16:01 -0400
Subject: Focusing x-rays
Message-ID: <N1B-C4eowZ2I1s@Safe-mail.net>

I actually knew the answer when I first read the post (no I didn't use a search engine to find it as I worked in aerospace) but thought it would be nice to provide an authoritative source.


-------- Original Message --------
From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz>
To: "wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net" <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net>, "jdb10987 at yahoo.com" <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
Subject: RE: Focusing x-rays
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:37:06 +0000

> wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> writes:
> 
> >Its called Grazing Incidence
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics
> 
> Ten out of ten for knowing what it was, but minus several million for using
> Wikipedia as the reference.
> 
> Peter.




From ryacko at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 23:34:46 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:34:46 -0700
Subject: [cryptome] Re: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0SwjaqBTyv0-2EEj=jDPJLAarSks38mcpxH9+kxu4o9Q@mail.gmail.com>

I suppose prosecutors working on the Manning and Snowden cases can't work
out of their offices?

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:25 PM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> most interesting reply:
>
> asked about SCIFs at the DoJ, and they forward only to FBI:
>
> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/scifcount-21229/#file-55661
>
> surely DoJ has more SCIFs than just those used by FBI investigations?
> perhaps FBI is simply SCIF steward for all DoJ components...
>
> sending more FOIAs now, starting with processing notes. will advise,
>
>
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 22 14:54:40 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:54:40 +0200
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <24052733.5QiZz8VGcn@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 22 września 2015 16:20:51 Juan pisze:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0300
> 
> Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:
> > USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters.
> 
> 	there isn't any incompetence involved.
> 
> > I have no
> > idea why they fuck up like this,
> 
> 	right, you don't.

Thank FSM you do! :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Tue Sep 22 21:17:02 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 00:17:02 -0400
Subject: Focusing x-rays
Message-ID: <N1B-HValtn0Vz9@Safe-mail.net>

-------- Original Message --------
From: coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
Subject: Re: Focusing x-rays
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 20:31:26 -0700

> On 9/22/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > Isn't it possible to focus any sort(frequency) of EM wave, at
> > least in theory?
> 
> in theory, with "metamaterials", yes.
> 
> in practice this is akin to the perfect invisibility cloak problem,
> full of devilish details...
> 
> a full spectrum Superlens for any EM freq would be quite handy indeed :)

Most metamaterials perform their magic using plasmas which form inside the material. These plasmas can absorb, reflect, refract, etc. but there are cut-off frequencies related to the energy of the plasma vs. the energy of photons.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 20:24:53 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 00:24:53 -0300
Subject: Focusing x-rays
In-Reply-To: <802609537.39470.1442977158807.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
 <802609537.39470.1442977158807.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56021a6d.466a8c0a.78eb9.45fa@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:59:18 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:


> >   But only a dweeb doesn't know that X-rays cannot be focussed.
> > (With one very obscure exception not applicable here.  Find it and
> >get an "attaboy!". )


	Isn't it possible to focus any sort(frequency) of EM wave, at
	least in theory? 
 
> Its called Grazing Incidence

> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics





From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Tue Sep 22 19:37:06 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:37:06 +0000
Subject: Focusing x-rays
In-Reply-To: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A4E9@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> writes:

>Its called Grazing Incidence
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics

Ten out of ten for knowing what it was, but minus several million for using
Wikipedia as the reference.

Peter.

 








From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 19:59:18 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 02:59:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Focusing x-rays
In-Reply-To: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-fJDVImSUgU@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <802609537.39470.1442977158807.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Attaboy!!!
      From: "wirelesswarrior at Safe-mail.net" <wirelesswarrior at Safe-mail.net>
 To: jdb10987 at yahoo.com 
Cc: juan.g71 at gmail.com; cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 6:56 PM
 Subject: Focusing x-rays
   
-------- Original Message --------
From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>, "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
Subject: Re: How much/what hardware does the rowhammer DRAM bug affects?
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 21:30:32 +0000 (UTC)
 
>Within the last couple of months, I think somebody was arrested for planning some sort of "X-ray death ray". http://nypost.com/2015/08/18/kkk-member-built-death-ray-machine-to-kill-muslims-and-obama-prosecutors-say/     But only a dweeb doesn't know that X-rays cannot be focussed.  (With one very obscure exception not applicable here.  Find it and get an "attaboy!". )



Its called Grazing Incidence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics
  >Microwaves, OTOH, can be focussed rather easily.  The frequency is 2.45 Ghz, at about 1 Kilowatt.  (wavelength about 12 centimeters.)  I'd have to consult a Radio Amateur's handbook, but a modern dish (intended or Directv or Dish network) could probably get 15-20 db of gain, compared with isotropic.  An old-style 8-foot dish probably would do 30 db gain.  That would be 100 kilowatts ERP. >Such an unshielded  (open) device would probably impair WiFi at 2.5 Ghz severely, if you're close to it, say a few hundred feet away.  Fortunately, I think microwave ovens have better than 60 db of shielding.  A few 10s of feet, away, hardware damage might occur if that full 1 kw were allowed to leak out.           Jim Bell  


  
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From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Tue Sep 22 21:37:39 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:37:39 +0000
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>,
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>

Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> writes:

>W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even force W7 and W8 users
>to download it when they aren't interested in 'upgrading'. So, if the product
>is free for you, who is the customer?

You're the product, not Windows.  That was the good thing about the old
Microsoft (yes, there were good things about them), they took your money and
left you alone to do whatever you wanted with their software.  Now, like
Google (where you're entirely the product, for sale to anyone with money) and
Apple (where you're still the product, but the sole customer is Apple),
they're turning their customers into the product.

(Not to mention that W10 has moved even further along the path of treating
your PC like a cellphone.  It's possibly the first GUI I've used that was
literally painful to use, the all-white-all-the-time UI theme was like staring
into a lightbox, my eyes hurt after an hour of two of setting up a neighbour's
PC).

Peter.




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 04:46:30 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:46:30 -0700
Subject: FCC NPRM seeks to end open SDR
In-Reply-To: <N1B-_N3mb5zAc7@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-_N3mb5zAc7@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R+3OWLCnR2QeyN=t3VnwdwHutKkU=52GH473Za1iiZqw@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> ... When the idea of classifying them as instruments was
> floated in the early days of the GnuRadio list (by Steve Schear) he
> cautioned to make sure the products weren't called anything that might even
> vaguely sound like a wireless device. Evidently the marketing people at
> these companies knew better.

it worked well, while it lasted... :)



> End-user controlled software signal generation and capture techniques are
> now widely in use by premium instrument manufacturers. If the FCC attempts
> to curtail the frequencies, modulation types, etc. by these these test
> instruments I think there will be manufacturers screaming bloody murder.

truly Classic Coke a recipe well loved and made verboten none the less.

"Real SDR" will become illegal; no longer exist.

"Consumer SDR" will eat the binary blobs of emission compliant
crippled chipsludge.

"Test Equipment" again a popular category. like "water pipe" where you
used to put your bong, you'll not dare ask about amplified front-ends
or frequency focused antennas attendant with your ADC/DAC test device
- your lab is already stocked!


best regards,
  from the Wideband TestKit at Faraday Barn :)




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 22:41:41 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 05:41:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Balloon RF probe.
Message-ID: <1065184497.96689.1442986901763.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


http://www.wired.com/2015/09/balloon-spy-probe-deep-sweep/

I was thinking about something like this, about 25 years ago.  But rather than a free-flying balloon, I felt that an aerostat configuration would be better.  Further, I figured that a bidirectional optical fiber link would be useful, such as:  http://datainterfaces.com/sfp-modules-single-strand-bidirectional-gigabit-SC.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAjw-IOwBRD1wrTC27fSjFISJABUDZ17VgezJOQe9_0o3_9WJIWBYvqkpJyge7-5g3ZkgT4wZBoC1vzw_wcB
An otherwise-unjacketed optical fiber, but with a woven Kevlar strength covering, would be useful.  
Obviously, the FAA wouldn't approve, but that doesn't keep us from imagining, huh?  
            Jim Bell.  
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Wed Sep 23 02:22:43 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 06:22:43 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu> <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B02_1HNyVb+R-8VUV02tDT172QsKukzY8Ja6sJjd3_jXA@mail.gmail.com>

so all they do is in their actual best interest and they aren't failing and
on the brink of collapse?

Care to clarify apart from trolling?

k, thx!

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0300
> Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:
>
> > USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters.
>
>         there isn't any incompetence involved.
>
> > I have no
> > idea why they fuck up like this,
>
>
>         right, you don't.
>
>
>  getting involved in a conflict,
> > supporting a side their are against to fight against the other side
> > they are supposedly also against, but always on paper, they will
> > never go there be killed. So why involve yourself in the first place
> > other than to destroy what remains of your reputations, what remains
> > of your money and relevance? But it's interesting nonetheless, to
> > watch and see them fall, which they've been invariably doing since
> > Vietnam.
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
> > > > They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism in
> > > > the US; systemic homophobia in Russia), and several *similar*
> > > > ways (oligarchy
> > > running
> > > > things). And yet they are able to play us, because predominantly
> > > > we
> > > simply
> > > > cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand
> > > > *anything*
> > > more
> > > > complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA
> > > > GOOD" (or
> > > the
> > > > other way around) worldview.
> > >
> > > For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been "Good
> > > Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically indigenous
> > > people-d extractive resources nations (and in other ways against the
> > > west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND Russia. Either you pick
> > > one side or the other or we have a war in YOUR country where YOUR
> > > people get killed and your society/way of life destroyed. There are
> > > no "nice guys". On the other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is
> > > accused of warmongering for doing what allies are supposed to do.
> > > Come to their defense in the traditional manner against an army of
> > > mercenaries that the West claims on one hand to be fighting, and on
> > > the other, had a large part in it's creation.
> > >
> > > Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in
> > > denial while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the Libyans
> > > we hired to sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords, and if the
> > > Russians want to eradicate that threat to Syria and the region,
> > > have at it.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From me at brendafernandez.com  Wed Sep 23 02:26:34 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 06:26:34 -0300
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <CALQy+B2635-YW45NxXoUN33-Tt0+GopW9Ap9E=ueatZ=AsmbZQ@mail.gmail.com>

W10 Confirmed Malware Edition treats the used as a teenage girl ripe for
the raping. In every possible sense.

But well, useds are asking for it, apparently.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 1:37 AM, Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz>
wrote:

> Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> writes:
>
> >W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even force W7 and W8
> users
> >to download it when they aren't interested in 'upgrading'. So, if the
> product
> >is free for you, who is the customer?
>
> You're the product, not Windows.  That was the good thing about the old
> Microsoft (yes, there were good things about them), they took your money
> and
> left you alone to do whatever you wanted with their software.  Now, like
> Google (where you're entirely the product, for sale to anyone with money)
> and
> Apple (where you're still the product, but the sole customer is Apple),
> they're turning their customers into the product.
>
> (Not to mention that W10 has moved even further along the path of treating
> your PC like a cellphone.  It's possibly the first GUI I've used that was
> literally painful to use, the all-white-all-the-time UI theme was like
> staring
> into a lightbox, my eyes hurt after an hour of two of setting up a
> neighbour's
> PC).
>
> Peter.
>



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 22 22:26:15 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:26:15 +0300
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <CAPDERwp90gt5WBbQQTVV5Uhr8WouY=kP7sBBe-QmUt5RY5tTYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>
 <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FFE2D1.5050308@m-o-o-t.org> <56006024.50903@librelamp.com>
 <20150922103943.GA2691@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPDERwp90gt5WBbQQTVV5Uhr8WouY=kP7sBBe-QmUt5RY5tTYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150923052615.GA2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 09:27:43AM -0500, Brent Cook wrote:
> Sounds like the next step is to remove curves <= 193 bits, and learn
> from what breaks as a result.

I believe this will break some CA certs trusted by major
browsers and in particular will break some browsing.




From admin at pilobilus.net  Wed Sep 23 05:55:28 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:55:28 -0400
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rJTL8ZgkdBmSLHFeVg5aV5GbTLWpay7nVc_Ri2c-MY0Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150923111438.GC2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHWD2rJTL8ZgkdBmSLHFeVg5aV5GbTLWpay7nVc_Ri2c-MY0Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5602A140.90907@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/23/2015 08:12 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:

> I hate to say it, but Windows 10 is the best OS out there. By
> far.

I hate to admit it, but what you say is true.  "Best" is a
completely context-dependent concept.  Windows 10 is the best OS
out there, by far, IF you as the user deeply desire to be owned
and controlled, monitored and monetized in every way, as deeply
and continuously as possible by your beloved Master.  Granted,
it's just a computer; but there's no denying it can deeply affect
your Real Life.

Like other Microsoft operating systems and application software,
Windows 10 makes the wettest dreams of the submissive masochist
come true:  More holes eagerly waiting to be violated.





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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 07:10:53 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:10:53 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Activists_leak_Russian_government=E2=80=99s_plans_to_c?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?reate_a_=E2=80=98national_Internet=E2=80=99?=
In-Reply-To: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>
References: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zdEw2-e6jDvwp3SSLaU-XFOmTnEqNvpEuNejuTfew++xg@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing wrong with doing a little research, I welcome any efforts of making
internet supporting technologies look like the antiquated lead-lined
aqueducts of Rome.

Is this any different from Internet2?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2

"secure identity and access management tools"

Internet2 is a not-for-profit United States computer networking consortium
led by members from the research and education communities, industry, and
government.[2] The Internet2 consortium administrative headquarters are
located in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with offices in Washington, D.C. and
Emeryville, California.[1]

As of November 2013, Internet2 has over 500 members including 251
institutions of higher education,[3] 9 partners and 76 members from
industry,[4] over 100 research and education networks or connector
organizations,[5][6] and 67 affiliate members.[7]

Internet2 operates the Internet2 Network,[8] an Internet Protocol network
using optical fiber that delivers network services for research and
education, and provides a secure network testing and research environment.
In late 2007, Internet2 began operating its newest dynamic circuit network,
the Internet2 DCN, an advanced technology that allows user-based allocation
of data circuits over the fiber-optic network.

The Internet2 Network, through its regional network and connector members,
connects over 60,000 U.S. educational, research, government and "community
anchor" institutions, from primary and secondary schools to community
colleges and universities, public libraries and museums to health care
organizations.[9]

The Internet2 community develops and deploys network technologies for the
future of the Internet. These technologies include large-scale network
performance measurement and management tools,[10] secure identity and
access management tools[11] and capabilities such as scheduling
high-bandwidth, high-performance circuits.[12]

Internet2 members serve on several advisory councils,[13] collaborate in a
variety of working groups and special interest groups,[14] gather at spring
and fall member meetings,[15] and are encouraged to participate in the
strategic planning process.[16]


-Travis


On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org>
wrote:

> The data-leaking blog Anonymous International, also known as
> Shaltai-Boltai (Humpty Dumpty), has published the Russian government’s
> project proposal for creating a "national information platform," which
> would serve as an alternative Russian Internet.
>
> According to Anonymous International, the project was drawn up by
> Russia’s Foreign Trade Bank cluster analysis and spatial development
> director Sergey Ganzya, the IT director of the hydroelectricity company
> RusHydro, Garald Bandurin, and several other people. The leaked content
> includes email correspondence and a document about the project.
>
> In the leaked emails, the authors of the project discuss the creation of
> “an entirely custom IT platform that can expand globally.” The
> development of such a platform can serve as “import substitution in the
> IT sphere” and “create a secure national digital environment with lower
> risks than in the global www-field.”
>
> The document published by Anonymous International mentions Russia’s
> direct dependence on “the goodwill and decency of global providers of IT
> solutions.” The authors of the document believe that “there are no
> objective guarantees that, in the event of a conflict, Western security
> agencies won’t paralyze—or, worse, seize—direct control over elements of
> the infrastructure.”
>
> The leaked emails between the project’s authors refer to the “general
> officers” of Russia’s “Oplot Rossii” party, which was tasked with
> delivering the project proposal to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The
> correspondence dates to June 2015.
>
>
> https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/09/23/activists-leak-russian-government-s-plans-to-create-a-national-internet
>
> --
> https://nesterov.pw
> GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
> https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 23 00:16:57 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:16:57 +0300
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <56024A32.8030602@zen.co.uk>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org>
 <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FFE2D1.5050308@m-o-o-t.org> <56006024.50903@librelamp.com>
 <20150922103943.GA2691@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPDERwp90gt5WBbQQTVV5Uhr8WouY=kP7sBBe-QmUt5RY5tTYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150923052615.GA2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <56024A32.8030602@zen.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20150923071657.GB2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 07:44:02AM +0100, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
> Backwards compatibility and cipher agility also permit cipher suite
> choice degradation attacks like FREAK and logjam, where weak suites
> are forced on the user.
> 
> 

Not familiar with these, but forcing DH parameters or weak curve is
serious.

> ps is there an archive of libreSSL at openbsd anywhere?
>

At gmane.org, ATM it is down for me.




From peter at m-o-o-t.org  Wed Sep 23 02:51:02 2015
From: peter at m-o-o-t.org (Peter Fairbrother)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:51:02 +0100
Subject: Is this crypto paper real or fake?
In-Reply-To: <20150923052615.GA2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150920135350.GB2587@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FF328F.1030903@m-o-o-t.org> <20150921052911.GA2543@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <55FFE2D1.5050308@m-o-o-t.org> <56006024.50903@librelamp.com>
 <20150922103943.GA2691@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPDERwp90gt5WBbQQTVV5Uhr8WouY=kP7sBBe-QmUt5RY5tTYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150923052615.GA2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <56027606.7070106@m-o-o-t.org>

On 23/09/15 06:26, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 09:27:43AM -0500, Brent Cook wrote:
>> Sounds like the next step is to remove curves <= 193 bits, and learn
>> from what breaks as a result.
>
> I believe this will break some CA certs trusted by major
> browsers and in particular will break some browsing.
>
>

Yes, that is a big problem with SSL and TLS.

The desire for backwards compatibility and cipher agility means that the 
little padlock in the browser doesn't actually mean very much - the 
suite in use might be so weak as to be no better than unauthenticated 
plaintext.

More, the average user doesn't usually have a clue what's going on - How 
secure is the suite in use? Does the suite in use have forward security? 
Is there any authentication? Is the authentication reliable?  Is there 
any encryption? Is it actually secure in any way?  - these are questions 
the average user cannot answer.

Heck, I can't answer them most of the time without digging into the 
innards of the session.


Backwards compatibility and cipher agility also permit cipher suite 
choice degradation attacks like FREAK and logjam, where weak suites are 
forced on the user.


To be secure, cipher agility absolutely requires that weak or broken 
ciphers can be effectively and definitively eliminated from use - but 
there is no real mechanism in SSL/TLS for doing that.




One solution is - in TLS3 abolish cipher agility, and have only one 
suite: call it Jim's suite.

The little padlock in the browser now says "protected by Jim". Everybody 
now knows what that means, or can find out. The meaning doesn't change 
according to things going on in the computer which the ordinary guy has 
no clue about.

After a few years, when Jim's suite is getting a little iffy, introduce 
Tom's suite in TLS4. Depreciate Jim's suite, then remove it.



People shouldn't really be rewriting libreSSL - they should be writing 
libreTLS3 instead, with no cipher suite agility.

Apart from anything else, with only one suite and one protocol, that 
should be a lot easier to do.


ps is there an archive of libreSSL at openbsd anywhere?

-- Peter Fairbrother





From komachi at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 23 04:42:36 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 11:42:36 +0000
Subject: Activists leak Russian =?UTF-8?B?Z292ZXJubWVudOKAmXMgcGxhbnMgdG8g?=
 =?UTF-8?B?Y3JlYXRlIGEg4oCYbmF0aW9uYWwgSW50ZXJuZXTigJk=?=
Message-ID: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>

The data-leaking blog Anonymous International, also known as
Shaltai-Boltai (Humpty Dumpty), has published the Russian government’s
project proposal for creating a "national information platform," which
would serve as an alternative Russian Internet.

According to Anonymous International, the project was drawn up by
Russia’s Foreign Trade Bank cluster analysis and spatial development
director Sergey Ganzya, the IT director of the hydroelectricity company
RusHydro, Garald Bandurin, and several other people. The leaked content
includes email correspondence and a document about the project.

In the leaked emails, the authors of the project discuss the creation of
“an entirely custom IT platform that can expand globally.” The
development of such a platform can serve as “import substitution in the
IT sphere” and “create a secure national digital environment with lower
risks than in the global www-field.”

The document published by Anonymous International mentions Russia’s
direct dependence on “the goodwill and decency of global providers of IT
solutions.” The authors of the document believe that “there are no
objective guarantees that, in the event of a conflict, Western security
agencies won’t paralyze—or, worse, seize—direct control over elements of
the infrastructure.”

The leaked emails between the project’s authors refer to the “general
officers” of Russia’s “Oplot Rossii” party, which was tasked with
delivering the project proposal to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The
correspondence dates to June 2015.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/09/23/activists-leak-russian-government-s-plans-to-create-a-national-internet

-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From l at odewijk.nl  Wed Sep 23 05:12:42 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:12:42 +0200
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <20150923111438.GC2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150923111438.GC2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rJTL8ZgkdBmSLHFeVg5aV5GbTLWpay7nVc_Ri2c-MY0Mw@mail.gmail.com>

I hate to say it, but Windows 10 is the best OS out there. By far.

The productivity features, like the hybrid tiling window manager, the new
explorer, etc. Are great.

Internet Explorer got it's rebrand, and the new browser is actually
nominal. I still killed and burned it ofc.

Driver and app support was bumpy, but compared to linux it's a smooth ride.
Now it's actually the best in the world for support.

The new design is thoughtful, flexible and unopinionated. High DPI support
is fully integrated.

The OS is more customizable than Linux. Not because it's an easily
customizable OS, but because others did a lot of hard work to make it
customizable.

Security wise it's still not ideal, but neither are Linux or Mac (people
still get owned a lot, lots of third party code through plugins and
whatnot, etc)

Cortana listens all the time, and may actually become useful one day.
People are happy because she's from Halo and similar to the already
accepted Siri.

Basically, we're fucked.

Microsoft is winning through superiority.

To make Linux competitive means making it a LOT more modern. Possible
there's a need to focus effort, and to reduce loc. Basically; fucked.
On Sep 23, 2015 13:17, "Georgi Guninski" <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 04:37:39AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> > Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> writes:
> >
> > >W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even force W7 and W8
> users
> > >to download it when they aren't interested in 'upgrading'. So, if the
> product
> > >is free for you, who is the customer?
> >
> > You're the product, not Windows.  That was the good thing about the old
> > Microsoft (yes, there were good things about them), they took your money
> and
> > left you alone to do whatever you wanted with their software.  Now, like
> > Google (where you're entirely the product, for sale to anyone with
> money) and
> > Apple (where you're still the product, but the sole customer is Apple),
> > they're turning their customers into the product.
> >
> > (Not to mention that W10 has moved even further along the path of
> treating
> > your PC like a cellphone.  It's possibly the first GUI I've used that was
> > literally painful to use, the all-white-all-the-time UI theme was like
> staring
> > into a lightbox, my eyes hurt after an hour of two of setting up a
> neighbour's
> > PC).
> >
> > Peter.
>
> Lol...
>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/21/microsoft_fix_windows_10_start_menu/
> Microsoft starts to fix Start Menu in new Windows 10 preview
> Yippee, now you can have 2,048 entries – but why is there a limit?
>
> Do they still run activex in their browser?
>
> AFAICT they mitigate digitally signed malware with technology
> something like "kill biLL" or maybe "kill biT".
>
> Or is flash sufficiently good substitute?
>
> NSAKEY already found?
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 23 04:14:38 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:14:38 +0300
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20150923111438.GC2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 04:37:39AM +0000, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> writes:
> 
> >W10 is free and it's being pushed hard by MS. They even force W7 and W8 users
> >to download it when they aren't interested in 'upgrading'. So, if the product
> >is free for you, who is the customer?
> 
> You're the product, not Windows.  That was the good thing about the old
> Microsoft (yes, there were good things about them), they took your money and
> left you alone to do whatever you wanted with their software.  Now, like
> Google (where you're entirely the product, for sale to anyone with money) and
> Apple (where you're still the product, but the sole customer is Apple),
> they're turning their customers into the product.
> 
> (Not to mention that W10 has moved even further along the path of treating
> your PC like a cellphone.  It's possibly the first GUI I've used that was
> literally painful to use, the all-white-all-the-time UI theme was like staring
> into a lightbox, my eyes hurt after an hour of two of setting up a neighbour's
> PC).
> 
> Peter.

Lol...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/21/microsoft_fix_windows_10_start_menu/
Microsoft starts to fix Start Menu in new Windows 10 preview
Yippee, now you can have 2,048 entries – but why is there a limit?

Do they still run activex in their browser?

AFAICT they mitigate digitally signed malware with technology 
something like "kill biLL" or maybe "kill biT".

Or is flash sufficiently good substitute?

NSAKEY already found?




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 11:37:15 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:37:15 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
 <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>
 <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <5602f03a.0233370a.30c98.fffffe20@mx.google.com>



	Por curiosidad, vos seguis siendo 'afin' y 'leal' a amati y el
	resto de bolsas de mierda de la mafia bitcoin argenta? 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 11:46:16 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:46:16 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2044953.aWtXiBlrBy@lapuntu>
 <56009ac7.e45c8c0a.63ed.fffff278@mx.google.com>
 <3684347.K1ZfXkoDa4@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <5602f257.13918c0a.ce29.fffffe42@mx.google.com>

> 	Por curiosidad, vos seguis siendo 'afin' y 'leal' a amati y el
> 	resto de bolsas de mierda de la mafia bitcoin argenta? 
> 
> 

	Oops. That was intended for Brenda, not the list...

	Anyway, it turns out I know Brenda and I know she's the typical
	fake libertarian. She and her 'friends'.



 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 11:48:48 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:48:48 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B02_1HNyVb+R-8VUV02tDT172QsKukzY8Ja6sJjd3_jXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28z7Nbrq7C31nnVgmsN46gzrf+0ZkdGqkyo4nqMGZFCuA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55FF812F.1090406@echeque.com> <56007137.2010503@riseup.net>
 <5469043.2VszmLFXp0@lapuntu> <56019021.1010202@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B2zdZW=axD=VboEcu6EMMfXANbvwhs8a6tAJMeQ4xpZfw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5601a8f9.53528c0a.cde70.0b36@mx.google.com>
 <CALQy+B02_1HNyVb+R-8VUV02tDT172QsKukzY8Ja6sJjd3_jXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5602f2ef.271b370a.a2e5f.0585@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 06:22:43 -0300
Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:

> so all they do is in their actual best interest and they aren't
> failing and on the brink of collapse?


	LMAO! The USG is on the brink of collapse? Lay off the drugs.


> 
> Care to clarify apart from trolling?

	the fuck do you mean, trolling? 

	

> 
> k, thx!
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 15:05:14 -0300
> > Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:
> >
> > > USG incompetence is hard to understand in these matters.
> >
> >         there isn't any incompetence involved.
> >
> > > I have no
> > > idea why they fuck up like this,
> >
> >
> >         right, you don't.
> >
> >
> >  getting involved in a conflict,
> > > supporting a side their are against to fight against the other
> > > side they are supposedly also against, but always on paper, they
> > > will never go there be killed. So why involve yourself in the
> > > first place other than to destroy what remains of your
> > > reputations, what remains of your money and relevance? But it's
> > > interesting nonetheless, to watch and see them fall, which
> > > they've been invariably doing since Vietnam.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 09/22/2015 05:26 AM, rysiek wrote:
> > > > > They are both fucked up, in many *different* (systemic racism
> > > > > in the US; systemic homophobia in Russia), and several
> > > > > *similar* ways (oligarchy
> > > > running
> > > > > things). And yet they are able to play us, because
> > > > > predominantly we
> > > > simply
> > > > > cannot see the bigger picture and cannot seem to understand
> > > > > *anything*
> > > > more
> > > > > complicated than the simplified beyond belief "USA BAD RUSSIA
> > > > > GOOD" (or
> > > > the
> > > > > other way around) worldview.
> > > >
> > > > For so many years now the geopolitical 'grand game' has been
> > > > "Good Cop/Bad Cop", "Mutt and "Jeff" played on the typically
> > > > indigenous people-d extractive resources nations (and in other
> > > > ways against the west's manufacturing satraps) by the US AND
> > > > Russia. Either you pick one side or the other or we have a war
> > > > in YOUR country where YOUR people get killed and your
> > > > society/way of life destroyed. There are no "nice guys". On the
> > > > other hand I bristle when Syria's ally is accused of
> > > > warmongering for doing what allies are supposed to do. Come to
> > > > their defense in the traditional manner against an army of
> > > > mercenaries that the West claims on one hand to be fighting,
> > > > and on the other, had a large part in it's creation.
> > > >
> > > > Americans just sat idly by with their thumbs up their asses in
> > > > denial while the State Dept and CIA created AQv2 from the
> > > > Libyans we hired to sodomize Muammar al-Gadaffi with swords,
> > > > and if the Russians want to eradicate that threat to Syria and
> > > > the region, have at it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 12:03:56 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:03:56 -0300
Subject: Windows 10
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rJTL8ZgkdBmSLHFeVg5aV5GbTLWpay7nVc_Ri2c-MY0Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <556D8DFD.6050402@riseup.net> <557BCAEB.3080003@riseup.net>
 <CALQy+B1ATHsMXZvgH7zNoK_XS5mRUBEx7s+uJM3ewV5fNNp+WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73F4B1A65F@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
 <20150923111438.GC2714@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHWD2rJTL8ZgkdBmSLHFeVg5aV5GbTLWpay7nVc_Ri2c-MY0Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5602f67b.8c1b370a.1c248.0585@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:12:42 +0200
Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:

> I hate to say it, but Windows 10 is the best OS out there. By far.

	apropos of trolling....





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 12:30:03 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:30:03 -0300
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <1169913898.457557.1443035239505.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5602f03a.0233370a.30c98.fffffe20@mx.google.com>
 <1169913898.457557.1443035239505.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5602fc9a.361f8c0a.1ae4e.ffffb2a5@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 19:07:19 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>   From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
>  To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
>  >  Por curiosidad, vos seguis siendo 'afin' y 'leal' a amati y el
>  >  resto de bolsas de mierda de la mafia bitcoin argenta?
> 
> No hablo Espanol, senor.

	Apologies. The thing is, sometimes mail from the list
	don't seem to come (only) from the list. Yours for instance
	apparently was sent both to my address directly and to the
	list. And your message also has a "Reply-To: jim bell
	<jdb10987 at ...> field. Same thing happened with Brenda's message.

	So, I asked Brenda if she is still loyal to the local
	(argentina) bitcoin mafia. 


> This reminds me of something that happened in prison in 2006.  I was
> cellies in the SHU (solitary, sort of) with a Mexican, who was
> illiterate in both English and Spanish.  He'd received some sort of
> official letter, in Spanish, probably from the Mexican government.
> I don't understand (nearly all) Spanish, but I understood, in
> general, how to pronounce Spanish.  So, I "read" the letter to him,
> not understanding it at all, and HE understood what I was reading!  I
> was careful to explain to him that despite the fact I was reading it
> in Spanish, I had no idea what I was reading actually meant.


	That's a great story =) 



>     Jim Bell 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   





From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 10:33:32 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 17:33:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: And it probably fits in a shoe, Max...
Message-ID: <49541108.373837.1443029612147.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

http://www.nextgov.com/cybersecurity/2015/09/dhs-wants-boeing-test-brain-chip-firms-self-destructing-black-spyphone/121697/

The Department of Homeland Security is funding a Boeing company to create a "brain chip" for its self-destructing Black smartphone that could be adapted for any device, DHS officials say.The technology powering the devices potentially could identify the user’s walking style, for example. Officials would be alerted if the gait does not match the authorized user’s walk – a red flag the phone might have fallen into the wrong hands, officials said. The "secret sauce" of the mobile device is a so-called neuromorphic computer chip that simulates human learning, Vincent Sritapan, the program manager for DHS' mobile device security program, told Nextgov.Gait recognition -- driven by the phone's accelerometer, GPS and the chip -- is but one of many kinds of continuous ID verification intended to tighten access controls on mobile devices.   Boeing and HRL Laboratories, a software firm jointly owned by Boeing and General Motors, are partnering under a DHS project worth $2.2 million over 2.5 years. The companies "pretty much are leveraging user behavior information" from data gathered by sensors found on any standard consumer smartphone, Sritapan said. Those feelers could include microphones, cameras and touchpads, he added. The artificial intelligence could help agencies determine, “Are you who you say you are, and do we give you access to enterprise resources like email?” he said.Homeland Security chose the Boeing Black for experimentation, because the company was willing to embed the chip into its device, Sritapan said."I would call this a high-risk, high-reward type of project," he added. "If successful, this technology can go into any device the manufacturers are willing to integrate it with" and would meet military, DHS and other federal agency information security specifications. Referring to the Black as "the test body," he said the government purchased the brand for "specific uses," such as secure voice calls. Smartphone as Test TubeIt remains to be seen whether DHS itself will buy brain chip-embedded Blacks for operations in the field. If the chip is successful at the end of a 2-year research and development period, DHS and Boeing will share the cost of a 6-month pilot program, Sritapan said. State Department staffers apparently plan to or are currently using the Black."Boeing's team will provide a two-consecutive day Discovery Workshop that includes a Boeing Black product overview, technical deep dives and a security requirements analysis," department officials said in a solicitation for a Boeing Black Secure Voice Workshop released Monday. Other players in the military-grade smartphone space include the similarly-named Blackphone made by Silent Circle, an encrypted communications provider co-founded by the inventor of PGP encryption and a former Navy Seal. Android-based Samsung smartphones running the firm’s Knox security software are another option for Pentagon components. Defense Department Chief Information Officer Terry Halvorsen has previously said DOD plans to test top-secret smartphones in the fall. The smartphone AI under development also would continuously track unusual digital transactions, like an app meddling with the operating system or a spike in network traffic, DHS officials said.MIT Technology Review describes the way neuromorphic chips understand the world as basically cognition: "Like the neurons in your own brain, those on HRL’s chip adjust their synaptic connections when exposed to new data. In other words, the chip learns through experience."Their low-power consumption makes the chips especially attractive for smartphones that sap batteries, experts say. Last fall, HRL Laboratories test-piloted a miniature drone with a Defense-funded prototype neuromorphic chip inside. The unmanned aircraft learned to recognize three different rooms it had never entered before by memorizing their wall patterns.A Black-Blackberry Connection?The phone in which the thinking-chip will be tested is straight out of a James Bond movie. The Black completely erases itself if it detects human or technical tampering. It looks like a common, touchscreen Android smartphone, but the hardware and software inside can be custom-tailored to an agency’s or company's specific needs. In the DHS model, the hidden innards will consist of the neuromorphic chip and associated software. Government smartphone stalwart BlackBerry – stepping back from device production – announced last year it will provide software services for Black. BlackBerry this month bought Good Technology, a mobile security software provider widely used in the public sector. Good and BlackBerry combined represented 19 percent of the $1.4 billion mobile management software sector last year. On Tuesday, Boeing officials said in an emailed statement, "Boeing has developed a secure, mobile solution that is designed to meet the needs of defense and security customers. Due to customer sensitivities, we cannot disclose who is currently using the device or considering a purchase."(Image via bestfoto77/ Shutterstock.com)
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 12:07:19 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 19:07:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How Putin Controls the Internet and Popular Opinion in Russia
In-Reply-To: <5602f03a.0233370a.30c98.fffffe20@mx.google.com>
References: <5602f03a.0233370a.30c98.fffffe20@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1169913898.457557.1443035239505.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
 To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 >  Por curiosidad, vos seguis siendo 'afin' y 'leal' a amati y el
 >  resto de bolsas de mierda de la mafia bitcoin argenta?

No hablo Espanol, senor.
This reminds me of something that happened in prison in 2006.  I was cellies in the SHU (solitary, sort of) with a Mexican, who was illiterate in both English and Spanish.  He'd received some sort of official letter, in Spanish, probably from the Mexican government.   I don't understand (nearly all) Spanish, but I understood, in general, how to pronounce Spanish.  So, I "read" the letter to him, not understanding it at all, and HE understood what I was reading!  I was careful to explain to him that despite the fact I was reading it in Spanish, I had no idea what I was reading actually meant.              Jim Bell
  






  
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Sep 24 08:31:48 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:31:48 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Activists_leak_Russian_government=e2=80=99s_plans_to_?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?create_a_=e2=80=98national_Internet=e2=80=99?=
In-Reply-To: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>
References: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <56041764.3070905@riseup.net>



On 09/23/2015 04:42 AM, Anton Nesterov wrote:
> “create a secure national digital environment with lower risks than in the global www-field.”

My $0.02c:

They're just getting the hang of 'portalling' everyone's coms onto "One
Big Cable" for better 'sniffin' '. If the US Internet was being
developed now instead of the late 50s and early 60s they'd (officially)
probably portal all civilian internet users at the national level too
instead of letting all those pesky telecom companies get in the way.

(Ps. whenever I see the word 'anonymous' I think Feds. Disposing of the
idea this may be factual into the Cold War circular bitbucket)

RR

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From komachi at openmailbox.org  Thu Sep 24 07:47:13 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 14:47:13 +0000
Subject: Activists leak Russian =?UTF-8?B?Z292ZXJubWVudOKAmXMgcGxhbnMg?=
 =?UTF-8?B?dG8gY3JlYXRlIGEg4oCYbmF0aW9uYWwgSW50ZXJuZXTigJk=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zdEw2-e6jDvwp3SSLaU-XFOmTnEqNvpEuNejuTfew++xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5602902C.3000101@openmailbox.org>
 <CAKtE3zdEw2-e6jDvwp3SSLaU-XFOmTnEqNvpEuNejuTfew++xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56040CF1.5040609@openmailbox.org>

Judging by leaked docs and people involved I'd say it's more like
Kwangmyong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_%28network%29

So it's created not for research, but for censorship. Also they want to
get some money from the govt for this project (they even scared that
Rostec could get this tender).

Travis Biehn:
> Nothing wrong with doing a little research, I welcome any efforts of making
> internet supporting technologies look like the antiquated lead-lined
> aqueducts of Rome.
> 
> Is this any different from Internet2?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2
> 
> "secure identity and access management tools"
> 
> Internet2 is a not-for-profit United States computer networking consortium
> led by members from the research and education communities, industry, and
> government.[2] The Internet2 consortium administrative headquarters are
> located in Ann Arbor, Michigan, with offices in Washington, D.C. and
> Emeryville, California.[1]
> 
> As of November 2013, Internet2 has over 500 members including 251
> institutions of higher education,[3] 9 partners and 76 members from
> industry,[4] over 100 research and education networks or connector
> organizations,[5][6] and 67 affiliate members.[7]
> 
> Internet2 operates the Internet2 Network,[8] an Internet Protocol network
> using optical fiber that delivers network services for research and
> education, and provides a secure network testing and research environment.
> In late 2007, Internet2 began operating its newest dynamic circuit network,
> the Internet2 DCN, an advanced technology that allows user-based allocation
> of data circuits over the fiber-optic network.
> 
> The Internet2 Network, through its regional network and connector members,
> connects over 60,000 U.S. educational, research, government and "community
> anchor" institutions, from primary and secondary schools to community
> colleges and universities, public libraries and museums to health care
> organizations.[9]
> 
> The Internet2 community develops and deploys network technologies for the
> future of the Internet. These technologies include large-scale network
> performance measurement and management tools,[10] secure identity and
> access management tools[11] and capabilities such as scheduling
> high-bandwidth, high-performance circuits.[12]
> 
> Internet2 members serve on several advisory councils,[13] collaborate in a
> variety of working groups and special interest groups,[14] gather at spring
> and fall member meetings,[15] and are encouraged to participate in the
> strategic planning process.[16]
> 
> 
> -Travis
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> The data-leaking blog Anonymous International, also known as
>> Shaltai-Boltai (Humpty Dumpty), has published the Russian government’s
>> project proposal for creating a "national information platform," which
>> would serve as an alternative Russian Internet.
>>
>> According to Anonymous International, the project was drawn up by
>> Russia’s Foreign Trade Bank cluster analysis and spatial development
>> director Sergey Ganzya, the IT director of the hydroelectricity company
>> RusHydro, Garald Bandurin, and several other people. The leaked content
>> includes email correspondence and a document about the project.
>>
>> In the leaked emails, the authors of the project discuss the creation of
>> “an entirely custom IT platform that can expand globally.” The
>> development of such a platform can serve as “import substitution in the
>> IT sphere” and “create a secure national digital environment with lower
>> risks than in the global www-field.”
>>
>> The document published by Anonymous International mentions Russia’s
>> direct dependence on “the goodwill and decency of global providers of IT
>> solutions.” The authors of the document believe that “there are no
>> objective guarantees that, in the event of a conflict, Western security
>> agencies won’t paralyze—or, worse, seize—direct control over elements of
>> the infrastructure.”
>>
>> The leaked emails between the project’s authors refer to the “general
>> officers” of Russia’s “Oplot Rossii” party, which was tasked with
>> delivering the project proposal to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The
>> correspondence dates to June 2015.
>>
>>
>> https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/09/23/activists-leak-russian-government-s-plans-to-create-a-national-internet
>>
>> --
>> https://nesterov.pw
>> GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
>> https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 10:43:12 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 17:43:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: FCC NPRM seeks to end open SDR
In-Reply-To: <56018CF8.6010500@riseup.net>
References: <56018CF8.6010500@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <523336772.452019.1443116592340.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I read the FCC proposal on SDR's.   It would be a disaster from the standpoint of technology development.  One way to attack this, with oppositions filed, would be to point out that the FCC hasn't demonstrated that there is a genuine problem with actual equipment.  They should have any problem at all with "software defined receivers", tell 'em so.  As for "software defined transmitters", what's the problem?  Can they demonstrate a genuine problem in the field?  Probably not.            Jim Bell  
      From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
 To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 10:16 AM
 Subject: Re: FCC NPRM seeks to end open SDR
   
>It was so much simpler when all I had to do was clip the end of one
>lousy diode to open my TS-440 up from DC to Daylight... The Alinco 2/440
>dual-bander did the same with one zero-ohm resistor removal.



On 09/21/2015 01:54 PM, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net wrote:
>> Since the early days of open SDR these devices have been sold as test equipment which does not require onerous type approvals or >certifications by the manufacturer or importer. The FCC now seeks to change this 
>>
>> https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/08/06/2015-18402/equipment-authorization-and-electronic-labeling-for-wireless-devices#h-13
>>
>> and require product features which block software changes after manufacture. This, of course, is the very heart of SDR and its prohibition would be nothing short of effectively banning SDR and any open source experimentation with RF signal processing beyond the theoretic.
>>
>> WW



  
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From themikebest at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 15:09:29 2015
From: themikebest at gmail.com (Michael Best)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 18:09:29 -0400
Subject: William F. Friedman documents now on Internet Archive
Message-ID: <CANFTA09-iNrjGs9Xa6JGtbyMTHC1LLprXLO0Cq8ghvEwezdBRQ@mail.gmail.com>

I uploaded the 7,000+ Friedman NSA docs to the Internet Archive and used
the metadata to rename the titles into something a little easier for humans
to read and sort.

https://archive.org/details/nsa-friedman

The complete set of Friedman docs are also included in the NSA FOIA vault
at https://archive.org/details/NSA-FOIA-Vault (
https://archive.org/compress/NSA-FOIA-Vault to get the entire vault in a
single zip). To grab just the Friedman docs and not the rest of the NSA
FOIA vault, go to
https://archive.org/download/NSA-FOIA-Vault/Friedman%20Documents.7z   -- I
should point out that the collected version includes the metadata file, but
file names are unchanged and unassociated with human readable titles.

These are the same copies released through the NSA's website, just a bit
easier to sort and read.


Enjoy.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 24 12:08:16 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:08:16 +0200
Subject: Fwd: Re: [bestbits] Indian Encryption Policy
Message-ID: <3140640.dSR2kS7bYp@lapuntu>

Well, that's going to be fun.

----------  Treść przekazywanej wiadomości  ----------

Temat: Re: [bestbits] Indian Encryption Policy
Data: poniedziałek, 21 września 2015, 15:42:05
Od: Mishi Choudhary

Hi Carol,

Thanks for highlighting this. Its a  draft National Encryption Policy
and public comments are invited by October 16, 2015. Comments are to be
emailed to Mr A,S.A. Krishnan,  akrishnan at deity.gov.in

The key highlights of the policy are :


1. A stipulation that businesses and citizens are to maintain plain text
(unencrypted) copies of encrypted content for a period of 90 days, to be
made available to Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) when so directed under
law.

2. Vendors of encryption products are required to register their
products with the Government as a pre-condition to conducting business
in India. They are also expected to re-register their products with
every update. This requirement is not limited to vendors of dedicated
encryption products, and seemingly includes even products that use
encryption in the course of providing a larger service such as messaging
or e-commerce. (Service  Providers located  within  and
outside  India, using  Encryption  technology  for providing any type of
 services in India must enter  into an agreement with the Government
for providing such  services in India).

3. Encryption   algorithms   and key   sizes shall be prescribed
by   the Government through Notifications from time to time.

-----------------------------------------
-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Sep 24 12:36:51 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:36:51 +0200
Subject: Fwd: [bestbits] Update: Indian Encryption Policy
Message-ID: <2244293.6c61Mn5SCa@lapuntu>

Aaand it's gone. For now.

----------  Treść przekazywanej wiadomości  ----------

Temat: [bestbits] Update: Indian Encryption Policy
Data: wtorek, 22 września 2015, 11:03:21
Od: Mishi Choudhary 

Post a public outcry, DEITY has withdrawn this policy.

-----------------------------------------
-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From admin at pilobilus.net  Fri Sep 25 06:46:32 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 09:46:32 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Re: [bestbits] Indian Encryption Policy
In-Reply-To: <3140640.dSR2kS7bYp@lapuntu>
References: <3140640.dSR2kS7bYp@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56055038.5000304@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/24/2015 03:08 PM, rysiek wrote:
> Well, that's going to be fun.
> 
> ----------  Treść przekazywanej wiadomości  ----------
> 
> Temat: Re: [bestbits] Indian Encryption Policy Data:
> poniedziałek, 21 września 2015, 15:42:05 Od: Mishi Choudhary
> 
> Hi Carol,
> 
> Thanks for highlighting this. Its a  draft National Encryption
> Policy and public comments are invited by October 16, 2015.
> Comments are to be emailed to Mr A,S.A. Krishnan,
> akrishnan at deity.gov.in
> 
> The key highlights of the policy are :

I hope they call tech support before installing this.

> 1. A stipulation that businesses and citizens are to maintain
> plain text (unencrypted) copies of encrypted content for a
> period of 90 days, to be made available to Law Enforcement
> Agencies (LEAs) when so directed under law.
> 
> 2. Vendors of encryption products are required to register
> their products with the Government as a pre-condition to
> conducting business in India. They are also expected to
> re-register their products with every update. This requirement
> is not limited to vendors of dedicated encryption products, and
> seemingly includes even products that use encryption in the
> course of providing a larger service such as messaging or
> e-commerce. (Service  Providers located  within  and outside
> India, using  Encryption  technology  for providing any type
> of services in India must enter  into an agreement with the
> Government for providing such  services in India).
> 
> 3. Encryption   algorithms   and key   sizes shall be
> prescribed by   the Government through Notifications from time
> to time.
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

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From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 25 01:49:06 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:49:06 +0300
Subject: State of the art in directing human made ball lightning?
Message-ID: <20150925084906.GA3811@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Probably offtopic, but would like to know what is
the state of art in directing human made ball lightning
(or something close to it).

According to wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning#Laboratory_experiments

humans made stuff close to it (was surprised one way involves
home microwave oven).

By "directing" I mean controlling its way.




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Fri Sep 25 12:13:46 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:13:46 -0400
Subject: State of the art in directing human made ball lightning?
Message-ID: <N1B-fc7RCuP868@Safe-mail.net>

See: http://scholar.google.com.secure.sci-hub.org/scholar?q=triggered+lightening+ball&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

Not directly answering your question controlled discharge of normal leader lightning using lasers or small rockets has been an area of intense research for some time. For example, see:

http://scholar.google.com.secure.sci-hub.org/scholar?q=triggered+lightening+laser&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

and

http://scholar.google.com.secure.sci-hub.org/scholar?q=triggered+lightening+rocket&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

For Google search articles not showing article links suggest you try 
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/index.php

-------- Original Message --------
From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
Apparently from: cypherpunks-bounces at cpunks.org
To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
Subject: State of the art in directing human made ball lightning?
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 11:49:06 +0300

> Probably offtopic, but would like to know what is
> the state of art in directing human made ball lightning
> (or something close to it).




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Sep 25 23:08:34 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 09:08:34 +0300
Subject: KARMA POLICE: GCHQ spooks spied on every web user ever
Message-ID: <20150926060834.GA2647@sivokote.iziade.m$>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/gchq_tracked_web_browsing_habits_karma_police/
KARMA POLICE: GCHQ spooks spied on every web user ever
Leaked docs show how out-of-control spy agency went full Stasi on
innocent surfers

New documents revealing GCHQ's mass-surveillance activities have
detailed an operation codenamed KARMA POLICE, which slurped up the
details of "every visible user on the Internet".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/trillions_in_surveillance_gchq/
Blighty's GCHQ stashes away 50+ billion records a day on people. Just
let that sink in

When the slide on BLACK HOLE was composed in March 2009, the flat data
store held more than 1.1 trillion things which GCHQ had collected since
August 2007.

The store weighed in at 217TB when uncompressed, the largest share of
which was HTTP data (41 per cent), which alongside web search (19 per
cent) and SMTP data (12 per cent) accounted for almost three quarters of
all that it held.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 13:51:44 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 17:51:44 -0300
Subject: tox
Message-ID: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>




	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks rather
	interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here 

	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard

	Maybe somebody who knows somebody at eff could drop them a
	message? 

	Also, apart from retroshare (and tox), is there any other p2p
	messaging network? 




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 20:09:46 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:09:46 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [qubes-devel] Purism Librem 13 and Qubes
In-Reply-To: <CAAmECqSDAKSj8SBCwz8oqy=f=2bvbOLAuhxQWjd_n0=1XF9VeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANTUoecURgWKMUvQSBirD33BXxzZ0LOYGyM+PcegYcPSz7Y3Lw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56003e3d.cb978c0a.e0ad6.ffffba74@mx.google.com>
 <CANTUoefC7Cmd5+u_MKSUYGiTcBcR6DGOv7cC8MWTsYx11K-z+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAmECqRMARibXzceShnYbr988Msf7DYn8mYDVi-vx908736KAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <f11da6fd-4c1f-4ec0-8c45-b4c7407e90e9@googlegroups.com>
 <CAAmECqSDAKSj8SBCwz8oqy=f=2bvbOLAuhxQWjd_n0=1XF9VeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QFmDtjm4ffM8N5Ee_0MEtXd2B1+KcPbOrrQKWp9a0Jmg@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Radoslaw Szkodzinski <astralstorm at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 02:01:58 +0200
Subject: Re: [qubes-devel] Purism Librem 13 and Qubes

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Jeremias E. <j.eppler at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>
>
> Am Freitag, 25. September 2015 16:33:39 UTC+2 schrieb Radosław Szkodziński:
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Fredrik Strömberg
>> <stro... at mullvad.net> wrote:
>> > I love the Purism initiative. I really hope they succeed.
>>
>> They cannot truly succeed until Intel opens Management Engine code,
>> SINIT blob, microcode, memory initialization code and more...
>> Coreboot on its own is not enough.
>> http://www.coreboot.org/Binary_situation
>
>
> They can succeed starting a movement, which has an economical impact.
> If Intel sees their is a marked they want to be part of it, because they
> want to
> make money.

Actually, this is not the first laptop based on open firmware and
software. Glugglug/Minifree did that quite a bit of time ago with
their Libreboot, even FSF certified. Nobody cares, sadly.
Librem likely will fail too for the same reasons - ideology is not
enough, and they are even worse at it technically-wise.

On the other hand, having a more secure laptop is a tangible benefit.
Without backdoors, with fewer bugs, audited firmware, perhaps even
partially audited hardware.

Maybe even make it easier on the designers, produce a server platform
matching those requirements - there's more of a market.
Google might even get in, as they are known to use a lot of customized
firmware and even hardware. I think they used to support Coreboot
itself.
They might have stopped caring about this though.

> A good example for such a movement is the Fairphone.
> The first Fairphone was for enthusiasts, but not a real competitor on the
> mobile phone marked.
> The Fairphone 2 is a real competitor to other mobile phones.

Having competitive hardware or design is not the same as being a competitor.
Try this argument again when it's actually a competitor to, say, any
iPhone. At least in top 10.

By the way, Fairphone 2 is a nice story for uninformed people, about
on par with Librem.
I approve of their other efforts, but it's nowhere near enough or
close to what's necessary.

The critical component, Qualcomm 801 chipset, will be running a
proprietary microkernel with proprietary RF firmware, proprietary DSP
code and more.
Good luck getting Qualcomm to open that - they are quite hostile to
any of those efforts.

Again, poor choice of an architecture and a very tough nut to crack.
(For instance, Marvell is way more open and much less hostile.)

>> That would probably open a whole can of worms related to security
>> which then would have to be patched, of course.
>>
>> For now, the best solution would be to try to get Librem to make an
>> AMD-based laptop and test Qubes on it.
>
>
> Is a nice technical and economical idea, because AMD will maybe help to
> build such a platform.

I wouldn't quite count on it, though they seem to be expanding their
open source drivers effort which bodes somewhat well.

That said, their GPUs still require a few fat, complex firmware blobs
- fortunately Qubes is pretty good at scraping GUI and enforcing
separation thereof.

P.S. If we're talking about pie in the sky designs:
Probably the best design for an OS like Qubes would be to have
separate small CPUs instead of many cores, with separate RAM and
memory controller. Maybe even an integrated GPU each to run OpenGL.
Multiple USB controllers and hubs to simplify hardware redirection.
Multiple small flash drives or even chips. Expensive, power intensive,
hard to cool and large though.

Think a tiny cluster of mostly separate PCs, connected via an
extremely fast bus, such as HyperTransport. NUMA considerations would
be less important here as the CPUs with their associated memory would
be dedicated to a VM and the support exists in both Xen and Linux
anyway.

-- 
Radosław Szkodziński




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 20:52:01 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:52:01 -0700
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/26/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> 	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks rather
> 	interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here
>
> 	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard

i am not saying the scorecard is worthless, but rather, it is at best
a signal for subpar projects doing things obviously wrong.

it cannot tell you, honestly, who is doing it all right. (not least
because "right" is relative to risk and threat model, which is
perspective unique to each user...)



things that are good about Tox.chat:
- Opus for media. if you don't know about the Opus Codec, you should!
VP8 i don't care about either way.
- Re-uses onions, rather than trying to build its own anonymity
overlay for friend finding.
- Uses cryptobox for crypto stuffs, rather than rolling own.
- Supports clients of various types, per preference, rather than
monolithic structure.

the bad:
- written in C and passing things around potentially unsafely. see the
address parsing in network.c, the DHT code. needs a good audit.
- poor network performance primitives with UDP - ok, not a problem
because this won't need that scale - beauty of decentralization! :)
- DHT is trivial to DoS. a known issue, but if you need survivability
i'd chose pond over tox.


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 01:52:56 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 01:52:56 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> most interesting reply ...

less interesting reply, but a more interesting response on my part:

FBI claiming privacy interest to refuse ALL of my FOIA regarding the
Sklyarov / Elcomsoft incident years back:
  https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/freedmitry-21209/

this is my first attempt to argue compelling public interest against a
privacy exemption,
 it is as follows;


Please recognize the public interest in this request for responsive
records as follows:

First and foremost, extensive media attention during this period was
generated due to the intersection of "hacking" and "reverse
engineering" combined with the DMCA provisions deeming some
technologies illegal at interest to the information technology
industry as a whole. This reason alone is sufficient and compelling
justification for transparency in a watershed case, however, I shall
continue.

Second, this case involved not a US citizen, but a foreign national.
As has recently been scoured in the technical press, Wassenar with its
incumbent BIS obligations has brought discussion of the risks
foreigners face visiting the EU and US, in addition to US citizens
abroad who now find themselves subject to severe technical controls
due to their industry participation. I feel that surely this must
provide beyond sufficient justification for public interest in
documents responsive to this request, yet I shall continue to exhaust
the relevant perspectives in my quiver of inquiry.

Thus thirdly, the conference venue, DEF CON security conference,
itself of notoriety and high esteem in the technical community, was
the operating domain for the closing moves of this investigation. The
logistics and technical considerations for operating in this domain
thus also compounds the public interest in the activity for which the
records responsive to this request have been requested.

Fourthly, and there is a fourthly for sure, the activities undertaken
by the agency were at risk of alienating a talent pool the Bureau has
increasingly courted and pursued for their invaluable skills in
digital forensic analysis, reverse engineering, and information
security. Balancing actions before a critical group who also interacts
frequently with the agency, and from whom the Bureau itself draws
professional talent, amplifies the interest and relevance of this
inquiry, and the need for unrestrained transparency when identifying
documents responsive to this request.

Lastly and finally, yet not to diminish the inherent privacy rights
afforded to all earth humans, inalienable, with justice for all, the
privacy rights which this agency has cited in justification for
limiting the documents responsive to this request, please note that
the privacy exemptions provided by law are specific and limited to
situations where there is a compelling personal privacy interest. The
agency has not provided any compelling privacy interest on behalf of
the fine Mr. Sklyarov, and his foreign status removes the common
privacy concerns of an individual within a domestic community at issue
in responsive documents. It is fully reasonable, per Department of
Justice v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, that the FBI
may provide documents detailing "what they were up to" in this
investigation, without undue burden on the privacy rights of a foreign
citizen briefly visiting to attend a public conference in the United
States.

Please do recognize and acquiescence to the public interest so broadly in view.

Best regards,




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Sep 26 19:22:50 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 02:22:50 +0000
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/17/rogue-states-and-diplomacy-a-conversation-with-noam-chomsky/

The interview is quite long, focusing on the USA Republican reaction
to the Iran sanction-lifting deal, amongst other things. Noam seems to
be a Professor, so I guess his arguments might be too intellectual for
the unwashed masses. Here is one question and answer:

Professor Chomsky, the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power,
has said that the problem is the “instability that Iran fuels beyond
its nuclear programme”. She echoed U.S. Defence Secretary Ashton
Carter, who went to Israel’s northern border and said, “We will
continue to help Israel counter Iran’s malign influence” by supporting
Hizbollah. The U.S., he intimated, reserved the right to use military
force against Iran. Could you comment on this?

NC: Power’s usage is standard: she defines “stabilisation” according
to a peculiar logic. For instance, U.S. policy in Iraq is defined as
stabilisation. What does that stabilisation look like? The U.S.
invades a country, with hundreds of thousands killed and millions
becoming refugees, along with barbarous torture and destruction that
Iraqis compare to the Mongol invasions, leaving Iraq the unhappiest
country in the world according to WIN/Gallup polls. It also ignited
sectarian conflict that is tearing the region to shreds and laying the
basis for the ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and Syria] monstrosity along
with its Saudi ally. That is stabilisation. The standard usage
sometimes reaches levels that are almost surreal, as when liberal
commentator James Chace, former editor of Foreign Affairs, explains
that the U.S. sought to “destabilise a freely elected Marxist
government in Chile” because “we were determined to seek stability”
[under the Pinochet dictatorship].

Let us consider the case of Hizbollah and Hamas. Both emerged in
resistance to U.S.-backed Israeli violence and aggression, which
vastly exceeds anything attributed to these organisations. Whatever
one thinks about them, or other beneficiaries of Iranian support, Iran
hardly ranks high in support for terror worldwide, even within the
Muslim world. Among Islamic states, Saudi Arabia is far in the lead as
a sponsor of Islamic terror, not only by direct funding by wealthy
Saudis and others in the Gulf but even more by the missionary zeal
with which the Saudis promulgate their extremist Wahhabi-Salafi
version of Islam through Quranic schools, mosques, clerics, and other
means available to a religious dictatorship with enormous oil wealth.
The ISIS is an extremist offshoot of Saudi religious extremism and its
fanning of jehadi flames.

In generation of Islamic terror, however, nothing can compare with the
U.S. “war on terror”, which has helped to spread the plague from a
small tribal area in Afghanistan-Pakistan to a vast region from West
Africa to South-East Asia. The invasion of Iraq alone escalated terror
attacks by a factor of seven in the first year, well beyond even what
had been predicted by intelligence agencies. Drone warfare against
marginalised and oppressed tribal societies also elicits demands for
revenge, as ample evidence indicates.

The two Iranian clients [Hizbollah and Hamas] also share the crime of
winning the popular vote in the only free elections held in the Arab
world. Hizbollah is guilty of the even more heinous crime of
compelling Israel to withdraw from its occupation of southern Lebanon
in violation of [U.N.] Security Council orders dating back decades, an
illegal regime of terror punctuated with episodes of extreme violence,
murder and destruction.

Iran’s “fuelling instability” is particularly dramatic in Iraq, where,
among other crimes, it alone came at once to the aid of Kurds
defending themselves from the ISIS invasion and it is building a $2.5
billion power plant to try to bring electrical power back to the level
before the U.S. invasion.




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 23:15:05 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 06:15:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Fw: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
In-Reply-To: <CALzGvvaVWkZSSf-XAwLSu8vZCQz-_Gu3n-0rw5hCCUpbOPk=+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALzGvvaVWkZSSf-XAwLSu8vZCQz-_Gu3n-0rw5hCCUpbOPk=+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <600907594.1427204.1443334505379.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Copied from correspondence.
    ----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 
 Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 5:23 AM
 Subject: Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
   
Thanks, jim. I will read your essay and engage with this topic again soon, but I'm immersed in another unrelated story that's consuming my brain and time. I'll get back to you.


On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 3:47 AM jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I wanted to mention that Prof Juels has responded to my inquiry.      See his work at:      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwi9hY33mZTIAhXRpYgKHeapAhY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpublic_gyges.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmHTOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=XpktiIWHc5e6slk0VsLOcQ&bvm=bv.103388427,d.cGU  
 I should point out that the main reason for my inquiry WASN'T to get academic credit, but rather to point out that people who have read my AP essay (and who understand and agree with its goals and likelihood of working) would consider Juels et al objectives to be undesirable and, indeed, dangerous.  Superficially, it sounds good to say that they are trying to prevent "criminal contracts", but for those of us who oppose (for example) laws against currently-illegal drugs, we might very well WANT a "criminal contract" to be operational, like Silk Road or such.  Or my AP (assassination politics) idea.
Prof Juels claims that he/they were not aware of my AP essay.  Well, sorry, but I find that a little hard to believe.  It's not that it's hard to believe that an average citizen of America (or the world) hadn't heard of it.THAT would be easy to believe.    Rather, Juels, Shi, and Kosba claim to be working on the concept of trying to stop "criminal contracts", and do you really believe they haven't heard of AP?!?  
My understanding is that my AP essay is probably the second most-famous Internet essay in existence, perhaps being Ted Kaczynski's, and it makes far more sense.  Now that Juels, Shi, and Kosba definitely know about AP, I think that they should address its implications BEFORE they purport to fight it.              Jim Bell From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
 To: Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:39 PM
 Subject: Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
  
You might also want to look at  http://www.arijuels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/public_gyges.pdf   , by Juels, Shi, and Kosba.              Jim Bell
 

     From: Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com>
 To: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
   
I'm not familiar with it, but I'm going to read it. I'm very interested. Thanks for sending this.
Jim


On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:14 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Mr. Epstein,       Are you familiar with my 1995-6 essay, "Assassination Politics".   www://cryptome.org/ap.htm                     Jim Bell
    ----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
 To: Cpunks List <cypherpunks at cpunks.org> 
 Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 7:31 PM
 Subject: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
   
http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/11/augur-gambling-prediction-ethereum

  
Augur May Become the Greatest Gambling Platform in History. Is There Anything the Government Can Do to Stop It?
A blockchain-based prediction market that won’t be controlled or managed by anyone.
Jim Epstein   Aug. 11, 2015 12:36 pm

An online gambling platform could do to the neighborhood bookie what electric refrigerators did to the ice delivery man.
Coming this fall, Augur will allow participants to wager money on any future event of their choosing. Software will set the odds, collect the bets, and disperse the winnings. The price alone should give Nevada sportsbook operators pause; an estimated one percent of every pot will go to keep the system running. The average vig today is about 10 times that.
Augur isn't a full-fledged casino. You can't play roulette or poker, and running lotto on the platform would be tricky. But it'll be great for sports betting.
Here’s what’s truly novel about Augur: It won’t be controlled by any person or entity, nor will it operate off of any one computer network. All the money in the system will be in Bitcoin, or other types of peer-to-peer cryptocurrency, so no credit card companies or banks need to be involved. If the system runs afoul of regulators—and if it’s successful, it most certainly will—they'll find that there's no company to sue, no computer hardware to pull out of the wall, and no CEO to lockup in a cage.This is new legal territory. If Augur catches on as a tool for betting on everything from basketball games to stock prices, is there anything the government can do to stop it?
Augur is a decentralized peer-to-peer marketplace, a new kind of entity made possible by recent breakthroughs in computer science. The purpose of these platforms is to facilitate the exchange of goods and services among perfect strangers on a platform that nobody administers or controls. Augur’s software will run on what’s known as a “blockchain"—a concept introduced in 2008 with the invention of Bitcoin—that's essentially a shared database for executing trades that's powered and maintained by its users.
Bitcoin’s blockchain was designed as a banking ledger of sorts—kind of like a distributed Microsoft Excel file—but Augur will utilize a groundbreaking new project called Ethereum that expands on this concept. Ethereum allows Augur's entire system to live on the blockchain. That means the software and processing power that makes Augur function will be distributed among hundreds or thousands of computers. Destroying Augur would involve unplugging the computers of everyone in the world participating in the Ethereum blockchain.
If Augur is destined to become the cypherpunks answer to gambling prohibition—the betting man’s version of the online drug market Silk Road if you will—you'd never know it from talking with its developers. They work for a San Francisco-based nonprofit, attend conferences, have legal representation, and talk openly about what they’re up to with reporters. Augur even commissionedone of those cheesy motion graphics promotional videos favored by new tech startups.
About half of the roughly $600,000 raised by Augur's development team comes from Joe Costello, the successful tech entrepreneur who was once Steve Jobs' top pick to become the CEO of Apple.
Joey Krug, a twenty-year-old Pomona college dropout and Augur's lead developer, never uses the world “gambling" to describe his venture. He and his team of five employees call Augur a “prediction market,” a term that emphasizes the information generated when a bunch of people have a financial incentive to feed their expertise into a sophisticated algorithm.
With Augur, as bettors move money in and out of the pot, the odds adjust. This yields publicly available statistics that should carry weight because they're derived from the opinions of a crowd of people with a stake in the results. InTrade, for example, the best-known prediction market until federal regulators forced it to stop serving U.S. customers in 2012, beat the pollsters and pundits by foreseeing the outcome of the 2008 presidential elections in 48 out of 50 states.
Augur’s developers hope that their platform will make it possible to do a Google search to look up the likelihood of some future event. This could usher in a better world, with more informed policy decisions and less malinvestment.
But Augur also serves the less high-minded—though no less noble—purpose of providing cost savings and convenience to gamblers. Restrictions on gambling serve to protect government revenue at the betting man's expense. State-sanctioned casino operators pay high taxes, and state-run lotteries fleece their customers. But there's no logical or moral case for government restrictions on gambling, since no third party is harmed when consenting adults wager money on the future. Augur actually has the potential to make the world safer by taking away market share in the gambling industry from criminals.
And yet sports betting is illegal in most states, and prediction markets are tightly regulated by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CTFC). The agency sued Ireland-based InTrade in 2012 to prevent it from accepting bets from U.S. customers. (The company folded shortly after.) In 2013, the CFTC and the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) jointly sued the prediction market Banc de Binary for allowing U.S. customers to make bets on commodity prices.
The CFTC has approved other prediction markets, such as the New Zealand-based PredictIt, but only after it agreed to abide by the agency's restrictions.
Krug says the Augur team is planning to meet with CFTC staff go over how their system works before it’s launched, but says he's not overly concerned. “Our friends in Washington, D.C. say the CFTC will probably just dismiss Augur and say it’s not a big deal,” Krug told me in a phone interview.
That doesn’t sound like much of a legal strategy, but how do you have a legal strategy when you're building something unlike anything that's ever existed? Federal anti-gambling laws, such as the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, target the companies that facilitate online betting— website operators, credit card companies, banks—not individual gamblers.
Augur’s biggest legal vulnerability is the community of human “reporters” who are needed to settle bets on the platform, says Cardozo Law School's Aaron Wright, who is writing a book about the legal implications of blockchain technology. Let’s say a group of people wager money on Augur over the outcome of a boxing match. Once the bout is over, human participants (who receive a portion of the trading fees as compensation) must report the outcome to the system before Augur’s software will disperse the money to the winners. "There’s at least an argument that the people doing that reporting are aiding or abetting unlicensed options and could be prosecuted," says Wright.
But Augur doesn't collect personal information on any of its users, so identifying these people could be difficult. And Augur is a borderless technology, so U.S. gamblers could simply rely on foreigners to report on the outcomes of their bets.
One attorney I spoke with suggested that the team that’s building Augur could be brought up on charges for aiding and abetting a criminal conspiracy. Nate Cardozo, a staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, thinks that's far-fetched but says he can't rule it out. Cardozo emphasizes that writing open source software doesn’t necessarily protect the team from prosecution.
“We’ve taken the steps that we need to take in order to bracket the individual's risk and the organization’s risk,” says Augur’s attorney, Marco Santori, who declined to comment further on exactly what those steps might entail.
Even if Krug and his colleagues were to face criminal prosecution, the technology would live on. After Augur is born into the world, the development team could release a software update that would cripple the system. But in that case, Augur's users could band together to block any changes to the underlying code, or another developer could copy the open source code and simply re-launch the platform. 
The big question with Augur—and with blockchain platforms more generally—is whether they can outrun our regulatory state long enough to grow so large and popular that they're truly unstoppable. My money’s on Augur in that race.
For more on the promises and pitfalls of decentralized peer-to-peer marketplaces, read my recentReason magazine feature story on the topic.


   



   

 


  
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From list at sysfu.com  Sun Sep 27 08:10:36 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:10:36 -0700
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.x5mm3zmlbgbjo9@mm.local>

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 19:22:50 -0700, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>  
wrote:
> has said that the problem is the “instability that Iran fuels beyond
> its nuclear programme”.

This is just code for saying "Iran operates a state owned central bank  
instead of one that is controlled by the global banking cartel, thus is  
fuels 'instability'"




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Sep 27 09:51:38 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:51:38 -0700
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net>

On 09/26/2015 08:52 PM, coderman wrote:
>  but if you need survivability i'd chose pond over tox.

From the developer's site:

> Dear God, please don't use Pond for anything real yet. I've hammered
> out nearly 20K lines of code that have never been reviewed. Unless
> you're looking to experiment you should go use something that actually
> works.

https://pond.imperialviolet.org/

RR

ToxID:
E611C7673C4C9C84C7F53BD8A2DF46C3131CB260E5758392B6B22FE18072C57518A2F0786A9A


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Sep 27 09:54:27 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:54:27 -0700
Subject: Fw: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
In-Reply-To: <600907594.1427204.1443334505379.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CALzGvvaVWkZSSf-XAwLSu8vZCQz-_Gu3n-0rw5hCCUpbOPk=+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <600907594.1427204.1443334505379.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56081F43.90100@riseup.net>



On 09/26/2015 11:15 PM, jim bell wrote:
> Copied from correspondence.
>

Riseup.net doesn't like Fw: Fw: in subject lines...

"Re: ***SPAM*** Fw: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market."


> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> *From:* Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com>
> *To:* jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 26, 2015 5:23 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
>
> Thanks, jim. I will read your essay and engage with this topic again
> soon, but I'm immersed in another unrelated story that's consuming my
> brain and time. I'll get back to you.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 3:47 AM jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com
> <mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I wanted to mention that Prof Juels has responded to my inquiry.  
>        See his work at:    
>      https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjACahUKEwi9hY33mZTIAhXRpYgKHeapAhY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arijuels.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fpublic_gyges.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHOBvCYwJ5Aq0CmHTOY53sGdRs5Sw&sig2=XpktiIWHc5e6slk0VsLOcQ&bvm=bv.103388427,d.cGU  
>
>      I should point out that the main reason for my inquiry WASN'T to
>     get academic credit, but rather to point out that people who have
>     read my AP essay (and who understand and agree with its goals and
>     likelihood of working) would consider Juels et al objectives to be
>     undesirable and, indeed, dangerous.  Superficially, it sounds good
>     to say that they are trying to prevent "criminal contracts", but
>     for those of us who oppose (for example) laws against
>     currently-illegal drugs, we might very well WANT a "criminal
>     contract" to be operational, like Silk Road or such.  Or my AP
>     (assassination politics) idea.
>
>     Prof Juels claims that he/they were not aware of my AP essay. 
>     Well, sorry, but I find that a little hard to believe.  It's not
>     that it's hard to believe that an average citizen of America (or
>     the world) hadn't heard of it.THAT would be easy to believe.  
>      Rather, Juels, Shi, and Kosba claim to be working on the concept
>     of trying to stop "criminal contracts", and do you really believe
>     they haven't heard of AP?!?  
>
>     My understanding is that my AP essay is probably the second
>     most-famous Internet essay in existence, perhaps being Ted
>     Kaczynski's, and it makes far more sense.  Now that Juels, Shi,
>     and Kosba definitely know about AP, I think that they should
>     address its implications BEFORE they purport to fight it. 
>                  Jim Bell
>     *From:* jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com>>
>     *To:* Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com
>     <mailto:jimepstein at gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:39 PM
>
>     *Subject:* Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
>
>     You might also want to look at
>      http://www.arijuels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/public_gyges.pdf 
>      , by Juels, Shi, and Kosba.
>                   Jim Bell
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Jim Epstein <jimepstein at gmail.com
>     <mailto:jimepstein at gmail.com>>
>     *To:* jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com>>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:35 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
>
>     I'm not familiar with it, but I'm going to read it. I'm very
>     interested. Thanks for sending this.
>
>     Jim
>
>
>
>     On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:14 PM, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com
>     <mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>         Dear Mr. Epstein,
>                Are you familiar with my 1995-6 essay, "Assassination
>         Politics".   www://cryptome.org/ap.htm
>         <http://cryptome.org/ap.htm>
>                              Jim Bell
>
>         ----- Forwarded Message -----
>         *From:* jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com <mailto:jdb10987 at yahoo.com>>
>         *To:* Cpunks List <cypherpunks at cpunks.org
>         <mailto:cypherpunks at cpunks.org>>
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2015 7:31 PM
>         *Subject:* Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
>
>         http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/11/augur-gambling-prediction-ethereum
>
>           
>         Augur May Become the Greatest Gambling Platform in History. Is
>         There Anything the Government Can Do to Stop It?
>         A blockchain-based prediction market that won’t be controlled
>         or managed by anyone.
>         Jim Epstein   Aug. 11, 2015 12:36 pm
>
>         An online gambling platform could do to the neighborhood
>         bookie what electric refrigerators did to the ice delivery man.
>         Coming this fall, Augur will allow participants to wager money
>         on any future event of their choosing. Software will set the
>         odds, collect the bets, and disperse the winnings. The price
>         alone should give Nevada sportsbook operators pause; an
>         estimated one percent of every pot will go to keep the system
>         running. The average vig today is about 10 times that.
>
>         Augur isn't a full-fledged casino. You can't play roulette or
>         poker, and running lotto on the platform would be tricky. But
>         it'll be great for sports betting.
>
>         Here’s what’s truly novel about Augur: It won’t be controlled
>         by any person or entity, nor will it operate off of any one
>         computer network. All the money in the system will be in
>         Bitcoin, or other types of peer-to-peer cryptocurrency, so no
>         credit card companies or banks need to be involved. If the
>         system runs afoul of regulators—and if it’s successful, it
>         most certainly will—they'll find that there's no company to
>         sue, no computer hardware to pull out of the wall, and no CEO
>         to lockup in a cage
>         .
>         This is new legal territory. If Augur catches on as a tool for
>         betting on everything from basketball games to stock prices,
>         is there anything the government can do to stop it?
>
>         Augur is a decentralized peer-to-peer marketplace, a new kind
>         of entity made possible by recent breakthroughs in computer
>         science. The purpose of these platforms is to facilitate the
>         exchange of goods and services among perfect strangers on a
>         platform that nobody administers or controls. Augur’s software
>         will run on what’s known as a “blockchain"—a concept
>         introduced in 2008 with the invention of Bitcoin—that's
>         essentially a shared database for executing trades that's
>         powered and maintained by its users.
>
>         Bitcoin’s blockchain was designed as a banking ledger of
>         sorts—kind of like a distributed Microsoft Excel file—but
>         Augur will utilize a groundbreaking new project
>         called Ethereum that expands on this concept. Ethereum allows
>         Augur's entire system to live on the blockchain. That means
>         the software and processing power that makes Augur function
>         will be distributed among hundreds or thousands of computers.
>         Destroying Augur would involve unplugging the computers of
>         everyone in the world participating in the Ethereum blockchain.
>         If Augur is destined to become the cypherpunks answer to
>         gambling prohibition—the betting man’s version of the online
>         drug market Silk Road if you will—you'd never know it from
>         talking with its developers. They work for a San
>         Francisco-based nonprofit, attend conferences, have legal
>         representation, and talk openly about what they’re up to with
>         reporters. Augur even commissionedone of those cheesy motion
>         graphics promotional videos favored by new tech startups.
>
>         About half of the roughly $600,000 raised by Augur's
>         development team comes from Joe Costello, the successful tech
>         entrepreneur who was once Steve Jobs' top pick to become the
>         CEO of Apple.
>
>         Joey Krug, a twenty-year-old Pomona college dropout and
>         Augur's lead developer, never uses the world “gambling" to
>         describe his venture. He and his team of five employees call
>         Augur a “prediction market,” a term that emphasizes the
>         information generated when a bunch of people have a financial
>         incentive to feed their expertise into a sophisticated algorithm.
>
>         With Augur, as bettors move money in and out of the pot, the
>         odds adjust. This yields publicly available statistics that
>         should carry weight because they're derived from the opinions
>         of a crowd of people with a stake in the results. InTrade, for
>         example, the best-known prediction market until federal
>         regulators forced it to stop serving U.S. customers in 2012,
>         beat the pollsters and pundits by foreseeing the outcome of
>         the 2008 presidential elections in 48 out of 50 states.
>         Augur’s developers hope that their platform will make it
>         possible to do a Google search to look up the likelihood of
>         some future event. This could usher in a better world, with
>         more informed policy decisions and less malinvestment.
>
>         But Augur also serves the less high-minded—though no less
>         noble—purpose of providing cost savings and convenience to
>         gamblers. Restrictions on gambling serve to protect government
>         revenue at the betting man's expense. State-sanctioned casino
>         operators pay high taxes, and state-run lotteries fleece their
>         customers. But there's no logical or moral case for government
>         restrictions on gambling, since no third party is harmed when
>         consenting adults wager money on the future. Augur actually
>         has the potential to make the world safer by taking away
>         market share in the gambling industry from criminals.
>
>         And yet sports betting is illegal in most states, and
>         prediction markets are tightly regulated by the Commodity
>         Futures Trading Commission (CTFC). The agency sued
>         Ireland-based InTrade in 2012 to prevent it from accepting
>         bets from U.S. customers. (The company folded shortly after.)
>         In 2013, the CFTC and the Securities and Exchange Commission
>         (SEC) jointly sued the prediction market Banc de Binary for
>         allowing U.S. customers to make bets on commodity prices.
>         The CFTC has approved other prediction markets, such as the
>         New Zealand-based PredictIt, but only after it agreed to abide
>         by the agency's restrictions.
>         Krug says the Augur team is planning to meet with CFTC staff
>         go over how their system works before it’s launched, but says
>         he's not overly concerned. “Our friends in Washington, D.C.
>         say the CFTC will probably just dismiss Augur and say it’s not
>         a big deal,” Krug told me in a phone interview.
>
>         That doesn’t sound like much of a legal strategy, but how do
>         you have a legal strategy when you're building something
>         unlike anything that's ever existed? Federal anti-gambling
>         laws, such as the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement
>         Act, target the companies that facilitate online betting—
>         website operators, credit card companies, banks—not individual
>         gamblers.
>
>         Augur’s biggest legal vulnerability is the community of human
>         “reporters” who are needed to settle bets on the platform,
>         says Cardozo Law School's Aaron Wright, who is writing a book
>         about the legal implications of blockchain technology. Let’s
>         say a group of people wager money on Augur over the outcome of
>         a boxing match. Once the bout is over, human participants (who
>         receive a portion of the trading fees as compensation) must
>         report the outcome to the system before Augur’s software will
>         disperse the money to the winners. "There’s at least an
>         argument that the people doing that reporting are aiding or
>         abetting unlicensed options and could be prosecuted," says Wright.
>         But Augur doesn't collect personal information on any of its
>         users, so identifying these people could be difficult. And
>         Augur is a borderless technology, so U.S. gamblers could
>         simply rely on foreigners to report on the outcomes of their bets.
>
>         One attorney I spoke with suggested that the team that’s
>         building Augur could be brought up on charges for aiding and
>         abetting a criminal conspiracy. Nate Cardozo, a staff attorney
>         with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, thinks that's
>         far-fetched but says he can't rule it out. Cardozo emphasizes
>         that writing open source software doesn’t necessarily protect
>         the team from prosecution.
>         “We’ve taken the steps that we need to take in order to
>         bracket the individual's risk and the organization’s risk,”
>         says Augur’s attorney, Marco Santori, who declined to comment
>         further on exactly what those steps might entail.
>
>         Even if Krug and his colleagues were to face criminal
>         prosecution, the technology would live on. After Augur is born
>         into the world, the development team could release a software
>         update that would cripple the system. But in that case,
>         Augur's users could band together to block any changes to the
>         underlying code, or another developer could copy the open
>         source code and simply re-launch the platform. 
>         The big question with Augur—and with blockchain platforms more
>         generally—is whether they can outrun our regulatory state long
>         enough to grow so large and popular that they're truly
>         unstoppable. My money’s on Augur in that race.
>
>         For more on the promises and pitfalls of decentralized
>         peer-to-peer marketplaces, read my recentReason magazine
>         feature story on the topic.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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From s at ctrlc.hu  Sun Sep 27 01:57:43 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 10:57:43 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150927085743.GB13534@ctrlc.hu>

> the bad:
> - written in C and passing things around potentially unsafely. see the
> address parsing in network.c, the DHT code. needs a good audit.
> - poor network performance primitives with UDP - ok, not a problem
> because this won't need that scale - beauty of decentralization! :)
> - DHT is trivial to DoS. a known issue, but if you need survivability
> i'd chose pond over tox.

last time (more than a year ago) i checked they also send along the long-term signing keys of the
communication participants making traffic analysis between peers quite
possible.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From admin at pilobilus.net  Sun Sep 27 09:34:26 2015
From: admin at pilobilus.net (Steve Kinney)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:34:26 -0400
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
In-Reply-To: <20150927154317.GB2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150927154317.GB2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <56081A92.9090305@pilobilus.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/27/2015 11:43 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 02:22:50AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness
> wrote:
>> Professor Chomsky, the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Samantha
>> Power,
> 
> This stopped me from trying to interpret the rest of the shit 
> rationally...

> U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power, has said that the
> problem is the “instability that Iran fuels beyond its nuclear
> programme”.

A while back I was reading a training doc for intelligence
analysts that used Iran in one of its examples.  Per this text,
Iran is believed to be working to prevent a U.S. invasion by doing
whatever it can to keep U.S. forces busy elsewhere in its
neighborhood, drawing down U.S. manpower and material resources
and denying the U.S. safe access to staging areas, well controlled
rear areas and flanks, etc.

So... if successful, Iran's nuclear weapons program would render
their present defence strategy obsolete, presumably closing out
their sponsorship of "destabilizing" forces in the region.  If
Iran gets The Bomb, U.S. sponsored "stabilization" elsewhere in
Iran's neighborhood would most likely get a big boost.  It's a
win/win proposition for the U.S. and Iran, unless of course the
U.S. National Interest requires the annexation of Iran - which it
does, as Iran sits right in the middle of the future U.S.
Protectorate of Pipelineistan.

Taking in the larger picture, I would agree with General Turgidson
that we can not allow a mineshaft gap.

:o/





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7tX7sNy70BZs0bos+JZ7
=tqj4
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Sep 27 04:34:57 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:34:57 +0100
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <9E7942B7-32D2-4819-AF5D-8D975D4C72B4@cathalgarvey.me>

There's no "allegedly". The company fully admitted to this and even expanded the scope beyond the EPA's suspicions, IIRC.

Roll on enforced code audits, preferably enforced code openness, for all devices that can negatively screw society.

On 27 September 2015 11:39:13 IST, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/vw_pollution_just_the_tip_of_the_iceberg_whos_to_blame_you_guessed_it_hippies/
>
><quote>
>Volkswagen is being rightly condemned from all directions, as its
>methods were particularly cynical: its engine software would sense when
>the car was in a test environment and cut back NO_x output temporarily.
>
>As soon as the car was no longer under test, the car would change mode
>and emit huge amounts of NO_x. This wasn't done for no reason – if a
>machine is allowed to generate NO_x freely, it can be very
>fuel-efficient – and thus, of course, its carbon emissions can be very
>low too.
></quote>
>
>Comment:
>
>Probably best defense for VW lawyers is:
>"We got hacked and the hack made this.
>We take sickyouareity seriously"

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Sep 27 12:52:49 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 12:52:49 -0700
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net> <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <56084911.9090500@riseup.net>

qTox chat tool is still a work in progress. When I shrink the popout
chat window the text typed doesn't wrap; ends up a single column of
first-on-the-line letters

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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 27 03:39:13 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 13:39:13 +0300
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
Message-ID: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/vw_pollution_just_the_tip_of_the_iceberg_whos_to_blame_you_guessed_it_hippies/

<quote>
Volkswagen is being rightly condemned from all directions, as its
methods were particularly cynical: its engine software would sense when
the car was in a test environment and cut back NO_x output temporarily.

As soon as the car was no longer under test, the car would change mode
and emit huge amounts of NO_x. This wasn't done for no reason – if a
machine is allowed to generate NO_x freely, it can be very
fuel-efficient – and thus, of course, its carbon emissions can be very
low too.
</quote>

Comment:

Probably best defense for VW lawyers is:
"We got hacked and the hack made this.
We take sickyouareity seriously"




From goran at gothic.com.au  Sat Sep 26 22:02:20 2015
From: goran at gothic.com.au (Goran Novak)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:02:20 +1000
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5607785C.9020405@gothic.com.au>

Similar to the CP article:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_X5czMVKT8



On 27/09/2015 12:22 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
> http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/17/rogue-states-and-diplomacy-a-conversation-with-noam-chomsky/
>
>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 12:35:14 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 16:35:14 -0300
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net> <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <560843c4.12138c0a.9f6da.ffff9c5b@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:46:31 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:


> > 
> > RR
> > 
> > ToxID:
> > E611C7673C4C9C84C7F53BD8A2DF46C3131CB260E5758392B6B22FE18072C57518A2F0786A9A
> 
> Mine:
> 3FA2E5273F0C368576FE120B374664E3B41E2CDF21639AFED3DC301490FFB01FAAA47B78D5F4
> 

and mine 

07531C0892CFB8C11ABA1293DC51359C3A77D67B39B44FA9397270EDA5F6493184DFABABC08C

We assume we're not being MITMed eh? =P 

Anyway, a problem with tox for the time being is lack of off-line
messaging...








From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 10:44:00 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:44:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/vw_pollution_just_the_tip_of_the_iceberg_whos_to_blame_you_guessed_it_hippies/

><quote>
>Volkswagen is being rightly condemned from all directions, as its
>methods were particularly cynical: its engine software would sense when
>the car was in a test environment and cut back NO_x output temporarily.

>As soon as the car was no longer under test, the car would change mode
>and emit huge amounts of NO_x. This wasn't done for no reason – if a
>machine is allowed to generate NO_x freely, it can be very
>fuel-efficient – and thus, of course, its carbon emissions can be very
>low too.

I noticed that (at least!) one media report portrayed this as making VW's less "green".  But from another report, I saw that they had 10% greater gas mileage if they were allowed to cheat.  (In other words, less CO2 emissions per mile.)  Now, the above quote refers to "huge amounts" of NOx.  (nitrogen oxides, probably NO and NO2).  The question is, for those people who complain about CO2 being a greenhouse gas, what is the relative undesireability of extra CO2 versus extra NOx.  Relative harm, and all that.  Which is a concept that people who call themselves "environmentalists" seem to have a great deal of difficulty with.
This also raises an idea:  I've never heard of this, but what would be wrong with allowing differences in emissions based on location?  Putting a GPS in a car is trivial today.  Producing less NOx inside a city would make sense; producing less NOx while on a cross-country road-trip less so.                    Jim Bell


  
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Sep 27 08:43:17 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 18:43:17 +0300
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150927154317.GB2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 02:22:50AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Professor Chomsky, the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Samantha Power,

This stopped me from trying to interpret the rest of the shit
rationally...




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Sep 27 11:13:03 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:13:03 +0100
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <24E6FECA-373C-4756-8435-EFE76A294D76@cathalgarvey.me>

IIRC NOx is also a strong greenhouse gas, stronger than CO2 by a good factor. Shorter halflife, but if it helps bump AGW to tipping points then halflives don't matter anymore.

On 27 September 2015 18:44:00 IST, jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/25/vw_pollution_just_the_tip_of_the_iceberg_whos_to_blame_you_guessed_it_hippies/
>
>><quote>
>>Volkswagen is being rightly condemned from all directions, as its
>>methods were particularly cynical: its engine software would sense
>when
>>the car was in a test environment and cut back NO_x output
>temporarily.
>
>>As soon as the car was no longer under test, the car would change mode
>>and emit huge amounts of NO_x. This wasn't done for no reason – if a
>>machine is allowed to generate NO_x freely, it can be very
>>fuel-efficient – and thus, of course, its carbon emissions can be very
>>low too.
>
>I noticed that (at least!) one media report portrayed this as making
>VW's less "green".  But from another report, I saw that they had 10%
>greater gas mileage if they were allowed to cheat.  (In other words,
>less CO2 emissions per mile.)  Now, the above quote refers to "huge
>amounts" of NOx.  (nitrogen oxides, probably NO and NO2).  The question
>is, for those people who complain about CO2 being a greenhouse gas,
>what is the relative undesireability of extra CO2 versus extra NOx.
> Relative harm, and all that.  Which is a concept that people who call
>themselves "environmentalists" seem to have a great deal of difficulty
>with.
>This also raises an idea:  I've never heard of this, but what would be
>wrong with allowing differences in emissions based on location?
> Putting a GPS in a car is trivial today.  Producing less NOx inside a
>city would make sense; producing less NOx while on a cross-country
>road-trip less so.                    Jim Bell

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 27 10:46:31 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:46:31 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 09:51:38 Razer pisze:
> On 09/26/2015 08:52 PM, coderman wrote:
> >  but if you need survivability i'd chose pond over tox.
> 
> From the developer's site:
> > Dear God, please don't use Pond for anything real yet. I've hammered
> > out nearly 20K lines of code that have never been reviewed. Unless
> > you're looking to experiment you should go use something that actually
> > works.
> 
> https://pond.imperialviolet.org/
> 
> RR
> 
> ToxID:
> E611C7673C4C9C84C7F53BD8A2DF46C3131CB260E5758392B6B22FE18072C57518A2F0786A9A

Mine:
3FA2E5273F0C368576FE120B374664E3B41E2CDF21639AFED3DC301490FFB01FAAA47B78D5F4

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 27 10:47:28 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:47:28 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56081E9A.5050108@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5533778.hVpnGgJdFs@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 09:51:38 Razer pisze:
> On 09/26/2015 08:52 PM, coderman wrote:
> >  but if you need survivability i'd chose pond over tox.
> 
> From the developer's site:
> > Dear God, please don't use Pond for anything real yet. I've hammered
> > out nearly 20K lines of code that have never been reviewed. Unless
> > you're looking to experiment you should go use something that actually
> > works.

Oh, and this *definitely* holds true for Tox! It needs a good audit, clear 
protocol specification, and an independent implementation in Python!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Sep 27 13:55:22 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 20:55:22 +0000
Subject: NATO, the finger of death
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST4Wusn_DJdWQzg2--m1ec4qFwZFzDxOm=K=GXXMtc8Fw@mail.gmail.com>

The english of this author in the following opinion piece is a little
broken here and there sorry.

---
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-08-2014/128397-nato_demonic-0/

NATO, the finger of death
28.08.2014

Iraq: Chaos! Libya: Chaos! Syria: Chaos! Whatever NATO touches, turns
putrid, rots and dies. Three interventions by the Anglo-Saxon Alliance
(UK and US), two by the FUKUS Axis (add France), three interventions
by NATO, three destabilized States crawling with terrorists. The
responsibility lies at the feet of Washington and its poodle States
and the onus is on them to right the wrongs they willfully committed.
You messed up, now... Pay for it!

Are dogs Vegans? Do you feed goldfish chocolate? Common sense says no
in both cases. Common sense also dictates that you do not intervene in
highly complex societies with thousands of years of tradition and lore
intricately mixed up in a myriad of ethnic and religious mosaics
cemented together by a Governing body that understands where the point
of equilibrium is to be found and which is kept in its position by the
players in the society which it governs.
Tweet

    Print version
    + - Font Size
    Send to friend

A company of the Portuguese Army was detailed to build a new village
for a community in the interior of Angola during the Colonial War*.
The company had been instructed to do so because the village had been
devastated. The architect based his idea on the downtown area of the
capital city of Portugal, Lisbon, reconstructed in straight parallel
lines after the earthquake and ensuing tsunami in 1755, which
destroyed the city. The community was transported to the village and
proudly shown their new home by the Portuguese captain. They ran away.
Asked why they didn't like their village, the community leader, or
soba, explained: "Our village is based on the circle. We eat sitting
in a circle, our homes are circular, we sit outside in a circle in the
evenings telling stories, laughing and singing. We take decisions
sitting in a circle, it has no head, no beginning and no end. And no
dark corners."

Can women in Saudi Arabia use forks when they eat? No, because it is
considered improper for a woman to put four long and hard prongs in
her mouth at the same time because when a man sees this, it gives him
unclean thoughts. For those western policy-makers chortling in mirth
as they read this, let us now come back to the point of this article,
the failed Western policy in Iraq, in Libya and in Syria.

Iraq: chaos! Libya: chaos! Syria: chaos! In all three cases, Western
politicians outdid one another in sheer arrogance, claiming (so
democratically) that "Saddam must go", "Gaddafy must go," and "Assad
must go". What we see in these three countries today is the direct
result of the criminal intervention by NATO, its two henchmen, the USA
and its poodle in chief, the UK and recently, France, which spends its
time subserviently crawling around the legs of its Anglo-Saxon NATO
masters across the Channel and across the Ocean, when it isn't
obediently obeying Germany's calls for austerity.

NATO destroyed Iraq, destroyed the State, destroyed the mechanisms of
control in a highly complex society whose many ethnic and religious
groups co-existed in peace until the West stepped in, after provoking
Iraq by getting Kuwait to steal oil in cross-drilling operations, then
demonizing the Iraqi Government, then directly interfering in the
internal affairs of a sovereign State by getting the Shiites in the
South to rebel, before the uprising was crushed. This criminally
irresponsible approach to foreign policy-making seems to be endemic in
the corridors of Whitehall, London and Washington DC, one of
Whitehall's most fetid and dysfunctional abortions over the years.

There ensued a decade of terrorist activity in Iraq between the First
and Second Gulf Wars, in which NATO aircraft strafed fields of cereals
and left the country strewn with Depleted Uranium, causing the deaths
and malformations of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, before
the outrage in 2003 when the Government was overthrown in an illegal
military invasion which resulted in around one million deaths
(murders) and today, the total destabilization of the State by ISIL, a
wonderful feather in the cap for Washington and its poodle in chief.
Yesterday they were full of bravado as they marched across the border
knowing Saddam Hussein (who was keeping al-Qaeda out of Iraq) had no
Weapons of Mass Destruction (his mistake was not to arm himself to the
hilt) and knowing the Iraqi Armed Forces would not fight back (in the
event the invasion was staged, with salvoes being fired over the
Iraqi's heads as they retreated to negotiated positions). Today
Washington and London are quivering in fear and are too scared to
fight ISIL, the monster they created.

This same criminal irresponsibility was demonstrated in Libya, where
they again intervened, this time joined by that sickening wannabe
Napoleon, France, this time not only creating but actively using
terrorists on their own lists of proscribed groups, which Muammar
al-Gaddafy (the first international leader to issue arrest warrants
against al-Qaeda) was fighting. Again, military equipment was deployed
against civilian structures, civilians were slaughtered by NATO
aircraft, the Libyan water supply system was targeted (war crime), the
electricity grid was destroyed (war crime) and the result, once again,
was the wholesale destruction of a State. Under the Geneva
Conventions, any military intervention must leave the area invaded
functioning properly attending to the needs of its citizens.

In not managing to guarantee this, the USA and its poodles in Europe
have failed miserably in their task and have shirked their
responsibilities. They are also responsible for criminal acts
breaching every fiber of international law. Their leaders are, in
plain English, war criminals and murderers.

And now for Syria. Just a few months ago that Nobel Peace Prizewinner
Obama in the USA was saying that Assad had to go, obediently parroted
by Cameron and Mr. 17 per cent popularity ratings, Hollande. Now, they
are considering sending military support to fight off ISIL in Syria,
after these very same Western/NATO powers armed, trained and aided
terrorists to fight the Government of President Assad, which has wide
approval across Syrian society.

If it was not so serious, it would be hilarious. But destroying
countries and societies has shocking social implications. What these
NATO countries deserve is for their boomerang to come back and smack
them square in the face, facing their own jihadis, to get a taste of
their own medicine, except for the fact that logic dictates that one
cannot attack their approach abroad and then wish the same thing on
them at home. What these criminally irresponsible powers must do is
man up, accept the responsibility for what they have done, and pay to
sort out the problems they created, keeping their unwanted troops at
home.

As those in Whitehall and Washington (let's be honest, Paris really
doesn't count, does it?) claim that we live in difficult times and
attack those who disagree with their criminal modus operandi, they
should be reminded that the evils they face are those of their own
creation. Instead of arrogantly ploughing ahead like modern-day
imperialists, they would do better to respect international law for
once, accept the responsibility for their actions, mind their own
business and start behaving with goodwill, instead of malevolence.

For those who have been involved in the political and military
processes in Iraq, Libya and Syria, they belong behind bars. The
mechanisms are already in place, the wheel is turning slowly, and most
of them will live long enough to cast looks of fear over their
shoulders wherever they may go. Blair already does, Rumsfeld dare not
step off an aircraft outside the USA, ditto Powell, Bush, Cheney and
Condoleezza Rice. The head of NATO is evil, psychopathic; the hand of
NATO is putrid, sociopathic and the finger of NATO is as icy as it is
satanic and demonic. It is the finger of death, contaminating
everything it touches.

NATO is the incarnation of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse:
Conquest, War, Famine and Death. It is the Empire of Evil.



*The Colonial War was fought between Portugal and factions in its
former colonies Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau, from 1961 to
1974; there was no war in Portugal's other African provinces, Cape
Verde and São Tomé and Principe Isles.



Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

Pravda.Ru




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Sep 27 12:06:01 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 21:06:01 +0200
Subject: Fw: Fw: Augur: Blockchain-based Internet prediction market.
In-Reply-To: <56081F43.90100@riseup.net>
References: <CALzGvvaVWkZSSf-XAwLSu8vZCQz-_Gu3n-0rw5hCCUpbOPk=+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <600907594.1427204.1443334505379.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <56081F43.90100@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5470953.jWGAjNsY2A@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 09:54:27 Razer pisze:
> On 09/26/2015 11:15 PM, jim bell wrote:
> > Copied from correspondence.
> 
> Riseup.net doesn't like Fw: Fw: in subject lines...

Very rightly so, too!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 19:50:32 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 23:50:32 -0300
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:52:01 -0700
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/26/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > 	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks
> > rather interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here
> >
> > 	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard
> 
> i am not saying the scorecard is worthless, but rather, it is at best
> a signal for subpar projects doing things obviously wrong.


	Oh, I wasn't commenting on the security of the software listed
	or tox in particular.

	What I meant is that tox is an interesting project and maybe
	more publicity from eff would help. 



> 
> it cannot tell you, honestly, who is doing it all right. (not least
> because "right" is relative to risk and threat model, which is
> perspective unique to each user...)
> 
 
> 
> things that are good about Tox.chat:
> - Opus for media. if you don't know about the Opus Codec, you should!
> VP8 i don't care about either way.

	

> - Re-uses onions, rather than trying to build its own anonymity
> overlay for friend finding.
> - Uses cryptobox for crypto stuffs, rather than rolling own.
> - Supports clients of various types, per preference, rather than
> monolithic structure.
> 
> the bad:
> - written in C and passing things around potentially unsafely. see the
> address parsing in network.c, the DHT code. needs a good audit.
> - poor network performance primitives with UDP - ok, not a problem
> because this won't need that scale - beauty of decentralization! :)
> - DHT is trivial to DoS. a known issue, but if you need survivability
> i'd chose pond over tox.
> 
> 
> best regards,




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Sep 28 08:56:13 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:56:13 -0700
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>
 <21757047-6E64-49EF-95BF-C09EC1DC92A8@cathalgarvey.me>
 <1703774.rHyHihue8Y@lapuntu> <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa>
Message-ID: <5609631D.5080405@riseup.net>



On 09/28/2015 07:47 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> The hardest UX part of Jitsi meet is
> teaching people to click "Allow Camera and Mic" on first visit.. you'd
> be surprised how big a deal this is for people actually.

From the pine nut gallery. No. I'm not surprised at all. Some people
just don't do certain things 'the first time'...

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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 28 02:59:07 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:59:07 +0100
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com> <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <7A53E4C8-9388-4371-9E46-0E6191D54EBA@cathalgarvey.me>

I've never successfully installed or used the Android APK. Without that there's very, very little point to Tox over just using Jitsi meet, especially when Jitsi's UX design and performance are so good for non-techies.

If paranoid, run JM on own domain. No Android app but works on Android mobile Chromium, which does prevent a trust issue because compiling chromium is torture and auditing it is extremely awkward thanks to the pull-in-source-during-the-build process.

Would like to see Tox work in a way compatible with my contacts, but only a small hamdful *could* use it and none of them *would*.

On 28 September 2015 10:22:53 IST, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 23:50:32 Juan pisze:
>> On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:52:01 -0700
>> 
>> coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 9/26/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > ...
>> > > 
>> > > 	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks
>> > > 
>> > > rather interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here
>> > > 
>> > > 	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard
>> > 
>> > i am not saying the scorecard is worthless, but rather, it is at
>best
>> > a signal for subpar projects doing things obviously wrong.
>> 
>> 	Oh, I wasn't commenting on the security of the software listed
>> 	or tox in particular.
>> 
>> 	What I meant is that tox is an interesting project and maybe
>> 	more publicity from eff would help.
>
>I'm testing it on my non-techie friends and I think it needs a bit more
>time. 
>I mean, for the most part it works and is already much, much more
>usable than 
>XMPP+Jingle or SIP/SIMPLE SNAFUs, and actually possible to set-up by a
>non-
>techie person, but it also does experience occasional crashes, and
>sometimes 
>has problems re-connecting to DHT upon user switching the physical
>Internet 
>connection.
>
>-- 
>Pozdrawiam,
>Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
>Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
>GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 02:18:46 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:18:46 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <560843c4.12138c0a.9f6da.ffff9c5b@mx.google.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu>
 <560843c4.12138c0a.9f6da.ffff9c5b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3639450.ddRtv4gltQ@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 16:35:14 Juan pisze:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:46:31 +0200
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > > RR
> > > 
> > > ToxID:
> > > E611C7673C4C9C84C7F53BD8A2DF46C3131CB260E5758392B6B22FE18072C57518A2F078
> > > 6A9A> 
> > Mine:
> > 3FA2E5273F0C368576FE120B374664E3B41E2CDF21639AFED3DC301490FFB01FAAA47B78D5
> > F4
> and mine
> 
> 07531C0892CFB8C11ABA1293DC51359C3A77D67B39B44FA9397270EDA5F6493184DFABABC08C
> 
> We assume we're not being MITMed eh? =P

Well, at least we're using two channels. And we can verify it, kind of, by 
doing an audio call and reading out loud at least part of the ToxID. Live 
MITMing of audio might be a bit more complicated. ;)

> Anyway, a problem with tox for the time being is lack of off-line
> messaging...

True.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 02:20:13 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:20:13 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <56084911.9090500@riseup.net>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <11550609.mSViriplVA@lapuntu> <56084911.9090500@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1602087.0jmyZe7R9Y@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 12:52:49 Razer pisze:
> qTox chat tool is still a work in progress. When I shrink the popout
> chat window the text typed doesn't wrap; ends up a single column of
> first-on-the-line letters

<anything>Tox is still a work in progress. There was an important update a 
couple of months ago that broke API compatibility. Just a few months before 
that there has been a protocol change...

Still, it does seem to be a potential contender as far as audio/video calls 
are concerned.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 02:22:53 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:22:53 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 23:50:32 Juan pisze:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:52:01 -0700
> 
> coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 9/26/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > 	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks
> > > 
> > > rather interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here
> > > 
> > > 	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard
> > 
> > i am not saying the scorecard is worthless, but rather, it is at best
> > a signal for subpar projects doing things obviously wrong.
> 
> 	Oh, I wasn't commenting on the security of the software listed
> 	or tox in particular.
> 
> 	What I meant is that tox is an interesting project and maybe
> 	more publicity from eff would help.

I'm testing it on my non-techie friends and I think it needs a bit more time. 
I mean, for the most part it works and is already much, much more usable than 
XMPP+Jingle or SIP/SIMPLE SNAFUs, and actually possible to set-up by a non-
techie person, but it also does experience occasional crashes, and sometimes 
has problems re-connecting to DHT upon user switching the physical Internet 
connection.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 28 04:00:52 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 12:00:52 +0100
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>

I gather it was discovered when a trade association was setting out to show off how awesome and clean modern diesels were, and did their own tests on actual road driving unlike the EPA. They discovered how shit the pollution really was and decided to report it.

Which, if that's accurate, really reaffirms my faith in some of humanity, because it was actively against their interests to do so?

On 28 September 2015 11:41:37 IST, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 05:44:00PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
>> I noticed that (at least!) one media report portrayed this as making
>VW's less "green".  But from another report, I saw that they had 10%
>greater gas mileage if they were allowed to cheat.  (In other words,
>less CO2 emissions per mile.)  Now, the above quote refers to "huge
>amounts" of NOx.  (nitrogen oxides, probably NO and NO2).  The question
>is, for those people who complain about CO2 being a greenhouse gas,
>what is the relative undesireability of extra CO2 versus extra NOx.
> Relative harm, and all that.  Which is a concept that people who call
>themselves "environmentalists" seem to have a great deal of difficulty
>with.
>> This also raises an idea:  I've never heard of this, but what would
>be wrong with allowing differences in emissions based on location?
> Putting a GPS in a car is trivial today.  Producing less NOx inside a
>city would make sense; producing less NOx while on a cross-country
>road-trip less so.                    Jim Bell
>
>I don't understand chemistry.
>
>Something in this scandal stinks to me.
>
>How did this was unnoticed for about 6? years?
>
>Especially when the diesel consumption on the road
>is visibly less than in a test environment?
>
>As suggested in news, likely competitors reversed 
>engineered the cars to see how VW managed to do this.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 28 04:51:22 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 12:51:22 +0100
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
 <7A53E4C8-9388-4371-9E46-0E6191D54EBA@cathalgarvey.me>
 <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <21757047-6E64-49EF-95BF-C09EC1DC92A8@cathalgarvey.me>

Jitsi desktop or the Jitsi Meet browser app? I've given up on the former, reliability is as bad as Skype and UX is poor. The latter is Chrome only, but reliability and UX is great.

On 28 September 2015 12:15:07 IST, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 10:59:07 piszesz:
>> I've never successfully installed or used the Android APK. Without
>that
>> there's very, very little point to Tox over just using Jitsi meet,
>> especially when Jitsi's UX design and performance are so good for
>> non-techies.
>
>I have never had a single situation, where VoIP over Jitsi actually
>worked. 
>And I have tried many, many times. :/
>
>-- 
>Pozdrawiam,
>Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
>Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
>GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 28 03:04:51 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:04:51 +0300
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com>
 <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150928100451.GA2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:22:53AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> I'm testing it on my non-techie friends and I think it needs a bit more time. 
> I mean, for the most part it works and is already much, much more usable than 
> XMPP+Jingle or SIP/SIMPLE SNAFUs, and actually possible to set-up by a non-
> techie person, but it also does experience occasional crashes, and sometimes 
> has problems re-connecting to DHT upon user switching the physical Internet 
> connection.
>


Is there an open source alternative to Viber, supporting
relatively sound user encryption?

Maybe some jabber extension?

This:
http://alternativeto.net/software/viber/?license=opensource
suggests andriod/ios only:
https://github.com/WhisperSystems/RedPhone





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 04:15:07 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:15:07 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <7A53E4C8-9388-4371-9E46-0E6191D54EBA@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
 <7A53E4C8-9388-4371-9E46-0E6191D54EBA@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 10:59:07 piszesz:
> I've never successfully installed or used the Android APK. Without that
> there's very, very little point to Tox over just using Jitsi meet,
> especially when Jitsi's UX design and performance are so good for
> non-techies.

I have never had a single situation, where VoIP over Jitsi actually worked. 
And I have tried many, many times. :/

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 28 03:41:37 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:41:37 +0300
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 05:44:00PM +0000, jim bell wrote:
> I noticed that (at least!) one media report portrayed this as making VW's less "green".  But from another report, I saw that they had 10% greater gas mileage if they were allowed to cheat.  (In other words, less CO2 emissions per mile.)  Now, the above quote refers to "huge amounts" of NOx.  (nitrogen oxides, probably NO and NO2).  The question is, for those people who complain about CO2 being a greenhouse gas, what is the relative undesireability of extra CO2 versus extra NOx.  Relative harm, and all that.  Which is a concept that people who call themselves "environmentalists" seem to have a great deal of difficulty with.
> This also raises an idea:  I've never heard of this, but what would be wrong with allowing differences in emissions based on location?  Putting a GPS in a car is trivial today.  Producing less NOx inside a city would make sense; producing less NOx while on a cross-country road-trip less so.                    Jim Bell

I don't understand chemistry.

Something in this scandal stinks to me.

How did this was unnoticed for about 6? years?

Especially when the diesel consumption on the road
is visibly less than in a test environment?

As suggested in news, likely competitors reversed 
engineered the cars to see how VW managed to do this.




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 28 04:21:42 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 14:21:42 +0300
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150928112142.GC2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 12:00:52PM +0100, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> I gather it was discovered when a trade association was setting out to show off how awesome and clean modern diesels were, and did their own tests on actual road driving unlike the EPA. They discovered how shit the pollution really was and decided to report it.
> 

I don't follow this news actively. What is source for this?

I suppose the people who reported this were not FV (and likely not
German).

But why they did the tests so lately?

Is EPA so corrupt to not see a trivial backdoor?


> Which, if that's accurate, really reaffirms my faith in some of humanity, because it was actively against their interests to do so?

Well, I trust _some_ humanity, but as a whole modern society is quite
untrustworthy IMHO.


> 




From tom at vondein.org  Mon Sep 28 06:08:55 2015
From: tom at vondein.org (Tom)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:08:55 +0200
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150928112142.GC2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150928112142.GC2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150928130855.GA51580@r4>

Hi,

in germany this is at least known since 2007:

http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/a-1054926.html (german
source, sorry) and the auto industry is being covered by the german
government(*). The government does even lobby in the EU against stronger
norms in vafour of german auto industry since years.

So, if you ask me, it is implausible that eh EPA found out about this
only recently. IMHO they knew it all the time. Now there has been "that
call" from D.C. ordering them to open the box. Why now? I don't know,
but maybe looking east and south from germany may help...


*) this means, at least in germany they didn't cheat. The government
did in effect.



- Tom

PS: oh, and it's now VW only, it's all of them.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 02:21:42PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 12:00:52PM +0100, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> > I gather it was discovered when a trade association was setting out to show off how awesome and clean modern diesels were, and did their own tests on actual road driving unlike the EPA. They discovered how shit the pollution really was and decided to report it.
> > 
> 
> I don't follow this news actively. What is source for this?
> 
> I suppose the people who reported this were not FV (and likely not
> German).
> 
> But why they did the tests so lately?
> 
> Is EPA so corrupt to not see a trivial backdoor?
> 
> 
> > Which, if that's accurate, really reaffirms my faith in some of humanity, because it was actively against their interests to do so?
> 
> Well, I trust _some_ humanity, but as a whole modern society is quite
> untrustworthy IMHO.
> 
> 
> > 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 06:21:44 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:21:44 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <21757047-6E64-49EF-95BF-C09EC1DC92A8@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>
 <21757047-6E64-49EF-95BF-C09EC1DC92A8@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <1703774.rHyHihue8Y@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 12:51:22 piszesz:
> Jitsi desktop or the Jitsi Meet browser app? I've given up on the former,
> reliability is as bad as Skype and UX is poor. The latter is Chrome only,
> but reliability and UX is great.

Ah, interesting! Didn't know about that. Any links? Does it use WebRTC? How is 
it different from palava.tv?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 06:33:09 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:33:09 +0200
Subject: Rogue States and Diplomacy: a Conversation With Noam Chomsky
In-Reply-To: <56081A92.9090305@pilobilus.net>
References: <CAOsGNSQPRKQU9Ev7p6d2qpjuDj_9RrdYS=FVcCfSJCvPJaC5QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150927154317.GB2584@sivokote.iziade.m$> <56081A92.9090305@pilobilus.net>
Message-ID: <10775595.sdivRzfHsL@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 12:34:26 Steve Kinney pisze:
> Iran sits right in the middle of the future U.S. Protectorate of
> Pipelineistan.
> 
> Taking in the larger picture, I would agree with General Turgidson
> that we can not allow a mineshaft gap.

10/10, would laugh again. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Sep 28 07:47:16 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:47:16 +0100
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <1703774.rHyHihue8Y@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <4458660.QtbdDQHESL@lapuntu>
 <21757047-6E64-49EF-95BF-C09EC1DC92A8@cathalgarvey.me>
 <1703774.rHyHihue8Y@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa>

WebRTC: https://meet.jit.si

Open source, self-hostable, very good performance despite (I think?) P2P
crypto in-browser. Really the only problem is that so few browsers do
WebRTC well enough to run it!

Usability is *very* noob-friendly, just define a private URL or get one
from the server on first-visit, and send to friends. They open the link,
and are dropped into chat-server. The hardest UX part of Jitsi meet is
teaching people to click "Allow Camera and Mic" on first visit.. you'd
be surprised how big a deal this is for people actually.

In fact, the difficulty getting people to click just that one button to
use Jitsi Meet may be what finally broke my spirit and made me realise
that users are quite often too stupid to successfully use *anything* and
that only brand reputation makes them persevere to use shit like Skype.

On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 15:21 +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 12:51:22 piszesz:
> > Jitsi desktop or the Jitsi Meet browser app? I've given up on the former,
> > reliability is as bad as Skype and UX is poor. The latter is Chrome only,
> > but reliability and UX is great.
> 
> Ah, interesting! Didn't know about that. Any links? Does it use WebRTC? How is 
> it different from palava.tv?
> 





From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 28 10:17:03 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:17:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <789525458.2032358.1443460623850.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

  From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 05:44:00PM +0000, jim bell wrote:



> I noticed that (at least!) one media report portrayed this as making VW's less "green".  But from another report, I saw that they had 10% greater gas mileage if they were allowed to cheat.  (In other words, less CO2 emissions per mile.)  Now, the above quote refers to "huge amounts" of NOx.  (nitrogen oxides, probably NO and NO2).  The question is, for those people who complain about CO2 being a greenhouse gas, what is the relative undesireability of extra CO2 versus extra NOx.  Relative harm, and all that.  Which is a concept that people who call themselves "environmentalists" seem to have a great deal of difficulty with.
> This also raises an idea:  I've never heard of this, but what would be wrong with allowing differences in emissions based on location?  Putting a GPS in a car is trivial today.  Producing less NOx inside a city would make sense; producing less NOx while on a cross-country road-trip less so.                    Jim Bell

>I don't understand chemistry.
Generally I do, having a degree in Chemistry.  However, automobile emissions is a sub-specialty to which I have never been exposed, except for reading occasional articles on the subject.  Mostly you don't need to know chemistry to understand the car-pollution situation, however.  CO2 is rather innocuous, except possibly for the issue of being a GHG (greenhouse gas; said to keep in heat to the Earth;  "Global Warming" or "Climate Change".)    NO and NO2 are poisonous, but are present in normal car exhaust in far smaller proportion than CO2.  When automobile engines run, presumably there is a tradeoff:  You can set the operating conditions of the car to "low CO2" (higher gas mileage) but at the same time NOx goes up.  Or, you can lower NOx, but at the price of "high CO2" (lower gas mileage).
>Something in this scandal stinks to me.
As far as I can see, VW recognized that there was/is a tradeoff between the emission of CO2 and NOx.  (Where NOx is used as a shorthand for nitrogen oxide (NO) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2; which when at high concentration dimerizes to N2O4, but this isn't really significant for auto-exhaust issues.)  "THE RULES" said they had to reduce NOx to some value, call it "Y".  But VW recognized that if it did that, gas mileage would go down a lot, perhaps it is 10%.  VW made the choice to cheat, to reduce the emission to "Y" but only when the car recognized that it was undergoing emissions testing.  

>How did this was unnoticed for about 6? years?
Maybe other car manufacturers were aware of it.  But they may have been cheating, too, greatly reducing their motivation to report VW.

>Especially when the diesel consumption on the road
>is visibly less than in a test environment?
That would have been a major clue.  But presumably the testers didn't have any way to know how much diesel fuel was actually being consumed on the road by VW's cars.

>As suggested in news, likely competitors reversed 
>engineered the cars to see how VW managed to do this.
Quite possibly.  But I think the trade-off VW chose might actually be worthwhile.  At least when the car is not in a city.               Jim Bell



  
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 15:03:49 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 19:03:49 -0300
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXL6TCMuQUFtMXEiZuoCM_1znd=RV_XPx0u9TABTDPNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5608a9ce.a919370a.920a9.ffffca49@mx.google.com>
 <2381579.MDJZ2Q7rhC@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <5609b816.85ea8c0a.40ab.4ed0@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:22:53 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia niedziela, 27 września 2015 23:50:32 Juan pisze:
> > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:52:01 -0700
> > 
> > coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 9/26/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > 
> > > > 	I've been playing with tox(thanks rysiek!) and it looks
> > > > 
> > > > rather interesting. I noticed however that it's not listed here
> > > > 
> > > > 	https://www.eff.org/secure-messaging-scorecard
> > > 
> > > i am not saying the scorecard is worthless, but rather, it is at
> > > best a signal for subpar projects doing things obviously wrong.
> > 
> > 	Oh, I wasn't commenting on the security of the software
> > listed or tox in particular.
> > 
> > 	What I meant is that tox is an interesting project and maybe
> > 	more publicity from eff would help.
> 
> I'm testing it on my non-techie friends and I think it needs a bit
> more time. I mean, for the most part it works and is already much,
> much more usable than XMPP+Jingle or SIP/SIMPLE SNAFUs, and actually
> possible to set-up by a non- techie person, but it also does
> experience occasional crashes, and sometimes has problems
> re-connecting to DHT upon user switching the physical Internet
> connection.
> 

	Connection wise I haven't experienced any problems. Some
	friends of mine on windows set it up in minutes (they are not
	particularly techie). It also depends on what client you use I
	guess. I tested utox on a windows xp machine and it only took a
	few clicks to install. 

	But having no off-line messaging does impair usability. Not
	being able to 'add' people unless they are online is...akward.



	




From l at odewijk.nl  Mon Sep 28 11:44:01 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 20:44:01 +0200
Subject: NATO, the finger of death
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNST4Wusn_DJdWQzg2--m1ec4qFwZFzDxOm=K=GXXMtc8Fw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNST4Wusn_DJdWQzg2--m1ec4qFwZFzDxOm=K=GXXMtc8Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2r+S7StkzdT5JVpbsJCDjfjnCWqkWL_7Q+5WiugnWeG3tA@mail.gmail.com>

2015-09-27 22:55 GMT+02:00 Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>:

> Common sense also dictates that you do not intervene in
> highly complex societies with thousands of years of tradition and lore
> intricately mixed up in a myriad of ethnic and religious mosaics
> cemented together by a Governing body that understands where the point
> of equilibrium is to be found and which is kept in its position by the
> players in the society which it governs.
>

Ah, but it is exactly why we must invade.

Tradition, lore, ethnicity, religion, these things fracture markets. A
homogeneous market is easier to sell to, easier to maintain. So too does
democracy create a neat field for the economic game.

It is too offensive to simply do away with these things. More tolerable is
creating meta-culture, culture that must be observed within other culture.
These meta cultures allow people to coexist in a way that's offensive to
everyone, but no so offensive as to cause people to go out-of-bounds.

We've gone and crushed their existing systems. We must now wait for chaos
to consume the resilient. At the same time we must prevent all roads to
order, except that road that leads to maximum economic exploitability; a
privatized free market in a tolerant elections based democratic government.
Aside from making the country impossible to steer, the representative
democratic system is also the most sensitive to (foreign) propaganda, and
still subject to every form of bribery and corruption. I struggle to
envision a system that's more readily exploited.

I do find it peculiar that these places do not readily organize into neat
democracies. I am not the expert of such matters, to me it mostly seems
that people do as they please. Perhaps the children will not struggle quite
so much. Certainly, until they give in, there will be no order. This can be
made sure of.

Ok, so, either the above, or, you know, these places were a mess before,
then NATO went in, and it was still a mess.

Can women in Saudi Arabia use forks when they eat? No, because it is
> considered improper for a woman to put four long and hard prongs in
> her mouth at the same time because when a man sees this, it gives him
> unclean thoughts. For those western policy-makers chortling in mirth
> as they read this, let us now come back to the point of this article,
> the failed Western policy in Iraq, in Libya and in Syria.


Can I get a fork with penis heads on the prongs? Or maybe just a single
fork like that in a set that's otherwise just like it?

In NL we've succeeded at eliminating most of this sort of culture. Girls
may wear their ridiculous hair-hiding self-incriminating headpieces, and
they often do. I just love it when they also do makeup; thick eyeshadow,
bronze powered cheeks, vibrant warm lipstick. When they finish up with
form-fitted T's or sweaters and nice leather boots, well, that's even
lovelier. And when you've gone that far, why not wear those gorgeous
form-giving 50% denim, 50% stretchyester pants. You know, the kind that has
you show off from calf to hip and everything in between? Not even rabbis
will avert their eyes from those curves!

Okay, so, satire aside, the author does not enter into specifics. Should
NATO have left the dictators, kings, etc to it? Should we have seen
overmuch of our wealth flow whence the oil comes? There's also throwing
around words like "war criminals" which is just propaganda, as the word is
unde(rde)fined. There's a good grasp of world-leader-geography, but little
of anything else. There's no real point made, except "it's a mess where
NATO went".

Ultimately, I think given the same axioms people should end up making the
same conclusions. It's pretty rare for people to unify their own arguments
correctly, so this is not always true. I can confidently say that men can
maintain a level of composure even when a woman uses a fork, and that most
religions keep out-of-date notions of cleanliness. (dear all, we can
reliably sterilize pork now. It's no worse than other foods.) (dear all, we
can reliably combat sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy without
abstaining. By now abstinence is causing far more harm than it is solving)
(dear all, besides alcohol, there's a range of safe-enough recreational
potions) (dear all, heavy punishment may not be the best way to deal with
crime. Heavier punishment may be completely ineffective, depending on the
crime and its motivations.)


I keep thinking back on Bitnation and wondering whether something like it
would be of any help. The situation is so complex, the technology, the
people, the ideologies, the status quo, I cannot say.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 13:25:57 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 22:25:57 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <1703774.rHyHihue8Y@lapuntu> <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa>
Message-ID: <2727133.mOxZRLTEWb@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 15:47:16 piszesz:
> WebRTC: https://meet.jit.si
> 
> Open source, self-hostable, very good performance despite (I think?) P2P
> crypto in-browser. Really the only problem is that so few browsers do
> WebRTC well enough to run it!

Interesting. Similar to https://palava.tv then. I'll look into it, I might use 
one of them in a project of mine.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Sep 28 13:37:18 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 22:37:18 +0200
Subject: tox
In-Reply-To: <5609631D.5080405@riseup.net>
References: <56070435.ea17370a.da260.30f2@mx.google.com>
 <1443451636.6909.3.camel@europa> <5609631D.5080405@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <3400008.Fifofq88y0@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 28 września 2015 08:56:13 Razer pisze:
> On 09/28/2015 07:47 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> > The hardest UX part of Jitsi meet is
> > teaching people to click "Allow Camera and Mic" on first visit.. you'd
> > be surprised how big a deal this is for people actually.
> 
> From the pine nut gallery. No. I'm not surprised at all. Some people
> just don't do certain things 'the first time'...

Well, there's also a question of how anal-retentive you want to be about it. I 
tend to be somewhere between "very" and "extremely", which usually gets the 
otehr side to actually use Etherpads instead of Googl Docs; Tox or 
https://palava.tv instead of Skype; etc.

Actually, I do not have a GDocs account, and I do not have a Skype account. 
That makes things a bit awkward sometimes, but in the end there is *always* a 
way to communicate, and if somebody is unwilling to use a tool that does not 
require me to give my data to the Microsofts and Googles of this world, than I 
tend to just assume that the whole deal is not worth my time.

And you know what? I don't remember the last time I had to make that 
assumption.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 28 16:53:38 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 23:53:38 +0000
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <20150928130855.GA51580@r4>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150928112142.GC2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150928130855.GA51580@r4>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQz7UmGJ9bfRi_bX+BV0YapMHmku=jfQ4Z1Zo7TJ7Vqtw@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/28/15, Tom <tom at vondein.org> wrote:
> in germany this is at least known since 2007:

CIA never lets a good opportunity go to waste - keep such aces up
sleeves for future threat and or retaliation 'opportunity'.

> http://m.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/a-1054926.html (german
> source, sorry) and the auto industry is being covered by the german
> government(*). The government does even lobby in the EU against stronger
> norms in vafour of german auto industry since years.
>
> So, if you ask me, it is implausible that eh EPA found out about this
> only recently. IMHO they knew it all the time. Now there has been "that
> call" from D.C. ordering them to open the box. Why now? I don't know,
> but maybe looking east and south from germany may help...
>
> *) this means, at least in germany they didn't cheat. The government
> did in effect.

Indeed it could be seen as retaliation - an enticing if impossible to
prove proposition - Germany's leader finally suggests alternative
approaches required to handle Syrian refugees 'and Assad' and the
situation in Ukraine, and US firing back:

2014, Germany towing the US line:
* Nov 11, 2014 - Merkel aide rules out working with Assad despite rise
of Islamic State
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/11/us-syria-crisis-germany-assad-idUSKCN0IV13O20141111


now the shift:
* Sep 1, 2015 - EU migrant crisis: Germany's Angela Merkel suggests
border controls may be re-introduced
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-migrant-crisis-germanys-angela-merkel-suggests-border-controls-may-be-re-introduced-1517891

* 04 Sep 2015 - Germany helps Russia bypass Ukraine via ‘Nord Stream 2’
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/energy/germany-helps-russia-bypass-ukraine-nord-steam-2-317340
(who needs the EU energy protectionist package when you can go direct to Russia)

* Sep 12, 2015 - Germany's Merkel sees need to cooperate with Russia on Syria
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/12/us-mideast-crisis-syria-germany-idUSKCN0RC0LM20150912

* 24.09.2015 - Merkel says Assad must have role in Syria talks
http://www.dw.com/en/merkel-says-assad-must-have-role-in-syria-talks/a-18736427


and possible reprisal by US - 'VW scandal!' (7 years late) and new US
nukes stationed in Germany (take THAT, Germans!):
* Sep 18 - VW Is Said to Cheat on Diesel Emissions; U.S. to Order Big Recall
http://tech.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=story&sid=15/09/18/1745221
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html

* September 21, 2015 - U.S. Will Station New Nuclear Weapons in
Germany Against Russia
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/09/u-s-will-station-new-nuclear-weapons-in-germany-against-russia.html
“The Bundestag decided in 2009, expressing the will of most Germans,
that the US should withdraw its nuclear weapons from Germany. But
German Chancellor Angela Merkel did nothing.” And now she okays the
U.S. to increase America’s German-based nuclear arsenal against
Russia.

Perhaps USG has some control dirt on Merkel? Perhaps the Bundestag is
not independent, or perhaps we're not getting the full story?

Zenaan




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 28 17:34:34 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:34:34 +0000
Subject: NATO, the finger of death
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+S7StkzdT5JVpbsJCDjfjnCWqkWL_7Q+5WiugnWeG3tA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNST4Wusn_DJdWQzg2--m1ec4qFwZFzDxOm=K=GXXMtc8Fw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2r+S7StkzdT5JVpbsJCDjfjnCWqkWL_7Q+5WiugnWeG3tA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST9XgM1=VRYtntDZDTG3mz_=wadNDPf-GOh0BQuB0HRuA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/28/15, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
> 2015-09-27 22:55 GMT+02:00 Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>:
>
>> Common sense also dictates that you do not intervene in
>> highly complex societies with thousands of years of tradition and lore
>> intricately mixed up in a myriad of ethnic and religious mosaics
>> cemented together by a Governing body that understands where the point
>> of equilibrium is to be found and which is kept in its position by the
>> players in the society which it governs.

> Okay, so, satire aside, the author does not enter into specifics. Should
> NATO have left the dictators, kings, etc to it?

Well it looks like Russia learnt 'the way' of NATO in Libya (and
Afganistan, Iraq, Egypt ... and most other CIA-led coup
'opportunities') - that is to destabilise then followed by cross
fingers. And in Syria, it seems Russia has decided that Russia's
relationships and interests are going to be protected (like Russia's
leased naval base). So at this point, I don't think it matters much
what USG in the guise of NATO want or 'should' do.


> Should we have seen
> overmuch of our wealth flow whence the oil comes?

I think this is the primary question - the world was split up (roughly
speaking) in oil terms, after WWII, and now USA is saying they want to
resplit the world - as in, control more than what they have for so
long. Personally I'm very happy with the arrangements with Russia, but
on the other hand I'm not a European oligarch, so what would I know?

As it so happens, I'm also not an American oligarch (oil or banks),
but as a very humbly living Australian looking on, I breathe a sigh of
relief that Russia is finally asserting itself - putting its global
foot down and saying enough's enough. As I've said clearly in the
past, the CIA's (and USGov's) actions in the world, for decades, and
the consequences and fallout from those actions, is not f!@#$ng ok!

And so I would rephrase your question like this: Should we consent by
acquiescence (by doing nothing) to our collective "western"
"demoncratic" governments spearheading coup after coup in foreign
countries - with a quarter million civilians dead in Syria already,
let alone Lybia, Iraq, Afganistan etc?

In dignity, a human's first position must always be "is mass killing
ok" and never "is the current balance of trade equation ok".


> There's also throwing
> around words like "war criminals" which is just propaganda, as the word is
> unde(rde)fined. There's a good grasp of world-leader-geography, but little
> of anything else. There's no real point made, except "it's a mess where
> NATO went".

Well now that Russia (with now China and...) is supporting the current
democratically elected government in Syria, let's see if the outcome
is less of a mess than the CIA's last 30 attempts...

Perhaps the regime in America needs a change towards democracy.


> Ultimately, I think given the same axioms people should end up making the
> same conclusions. It's pretty rare for people to unify their own arguments
> correctly, so this is not always true. I can confidently say that men can
> maintain a level of composure even when a woman uses a fork, and that most
> religions keep out-of-date notions of cleanliness. (dear all, we can
> reliably sterilize pork now. It's no worse than other foods.) (dear all, we
> can reliably combat sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy without
> abstaining. By now abstinence is causing far more harm than it is solving)
> (dear all, besides alcohol, there's a range of safe-enough recreational
> potions) (dear all, heavy punishment may not be the best way to deal with
> crime. Heavier punishment may be completely ineffective, depending on the
> crime and its motivations.)
>
>
> I keep thinking back on Bitnation and wondering whether something like it
> would be of any help. The situation is so complex, the technology, the
> people, the ideologies, the status quo, I cannot say.

Sadly, whilst fear and acquiescence rule the majority, they sheeple
will continue to acquiesce in fear, and therefore be shorn. Political
anarchist 'state' requires at least a threshold % of people who are
not in fear, or who at least are willing to live in self sufficiency,
in 'true' freedom, and in 'faith' that we can handle rogue individuals
and rogue factions who here and there will attempt to dominate others
individually and or collectively.

I would dearly love to see the day where humans can truly be worthy of
typical 'founding fathers' claims and statements.

Zenaan




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 28 19:17:27 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 02:17:27 +0000
Subject: popcorn time - Russia now supporting Iraq too - US on the Ropes:
 China to Join Russian Military In Syria?
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQts98aRuFJPDMgQP6ff6UYso65WQ9ZBJREMbeqszvY8g@mail.gmail.com>

I would have thought this too funny to be real, but seems it is:

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/us-ropes-china-join-russian-military-syria/ri9996
"Meanwhile, it now looks as though the very same Russian-Iran “nexus”
that's playing spoiler in Syria is also set to take over the fight
against ISIS in Iraq, as Baghdad has now struck a deal to officially
share intelligence with Moscow and Tehran. Here's CNN:"

No wonder Obama and the wannabe POTUS Putin-haters seem a little off
base at the moment .. Putin just took their NWO plate with a
stereotypically Russian "thank you kindly, you have a nice day now."
Damn.

Zenaan




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 28 19:26:36 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 02:26:36 +0000
Subject: Fwd: EPA opposed DMCA exemptions that could have revealed Volkswagen
 fraud
In-Reply-To: <E1Zgi2K-0007gD-GM@crmserver1p.fsf.org>
References: <E1Zgi2K-0007gD-GM@crmserver1p.fsf.org>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRBjtnVW-tVAbZRrj4d2zvwTdHz2jEd44B7-EY3XbEjPw@mail.gmail.com>

Not new but on topic at the moment - DMCA is about control of end
consumers/ users, not about copyright (or rather, it's abuse of
copyright).


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Free Software Foundation <info at fsf.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 19:40:48 -0400
Subject: EPA opposed DMCA exemptions that could have revealed Volkswagen fraud

Dear Mr Harkness,

We have written previously about the [organizations and
individuals][1] who opposed exemptions to the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act's (DMCA) anti-circumvention provisions. These drones
oppose the rights of users to backup, modify, and study the software
and devices that we own. The DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions
create legal penalties for simply accessing your software under your
own terms, and raises those penalties even higher should dare to share
the tools needed to do so. It creates real penalties for anyone who
wants to avoid Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) controls. The
granting of exemptions to these totalitarian rules is a broken and
half-hearted attempt to limit the damage these rules bring, granting
for 3 years a
reprieve for certain specified devices and software.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) side-stepped this process
and [sent a letter][2] separately directly to the Copyright Office. In
the letter they argued that users should not be able to access and
modify the software on their own vehicles. In their estimation, this
would enable users to violate emissions controls. So it would be
better for them if the hammer of the DMCA remained hanging over the
head of every user or researcher who wanted to access the software on
their vehicle.

Of course, just a few months after telling the Copyright Office that
users couldn't be trusted with access to their devices, the EPA
revealed a major scandal involving Volkswagen. It turns out that
Volkswagen had for many years cheated the emissions test performed by
the EPA. Volkswagen had surreptitiously included some code in their
diesel vehicles that would detect the EPA's tests and have the car
change its performance in order to meet EPA mandates. Once the test
was over, the code would revert the vehicle to its normal,
high-polluting functioning. This scam apparently went on for years
before it was detected by researchers.

Of course the irony is that if users and researchers had the right to
access the software on their cars, they might have discovered this
fraud years ago. As Eben Moglen, founder of the [Software Freedom Law
Center][3] [noted][4] "If Volkswagen knew that every customer who buys
a vehicle would have a right to read the source code of all the
software in the vehicle, they would never even consider the cheat,
because the certainty of getting caught would terrify them.”
Volkswagen is already a contributor on the kernel Linux, and as
Bradley M. Kuhn, President and Distinguished Technologist of the
[Software Freedom Conservancy][5] pointed out it is likely that
Volkswagen vehicles already contain some free software. But some is
not all, and
clearly they kept much of their software secret in order to hide their
scam. If all the software on the vehicles was free software they never
could have perpetrated this scheme.

Researchers also could have discovered the fraud had they not been
hindered by the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions, as Kit Walsh of
the Electronic Frontier Foundation [argued][6]. The EPA of course
failed to understand all this when drafting their letter promoting the
use of DRM.

But there is a more galling fact at play here. What the EPA argued in
their letter was that the exemption should not be granted under the
DMCA as a means for enforcing efficiency standards. That clearly isn't
the stated purpose of the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions, and
highlights one of the fundamental problems with DRM. That a government
agency would try to commandeer the DRM of private actors, not to
enforce copyright but as a means to enforce something wholly
unrelated, demonstrates a central truth: DRM is not about copyright;
it's about control. It's about dominating users. It's about spying on
them. It's about installing [rootkits][7] onto their computers. It has
nothing to do with rights, and everything to do with restriction.

We can't let governments and corporation use DRM to take over our
lives. This is what you can do today to fight back:

If you microblog, please share the following message (or your own)
with the hashtag #DRMshame. We strongly suggest that if you use
[Twitter][8] to publicly call the EPA  and Volkswagen out, you do it
in a way that avoids using proprietary software:

* @EPA You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to use Digital
Restrictions Management #DRMshame <https://u.fsf.org/fraud>
* @VW  All software on your vehicles needs to be free software without
DRM to restore our trust #DRMshame <https://u.fsf.org/fraud>

Here's what else you can do.:

* Join the [Defective By Design][9] mailing list to keep up to date on
the on-going fight against DRM.
* To help fund our work, consider [donating to the FSF][10].


Happy hacking,
Donald Robertson
Copyright and Licensing Associate

[1]: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/meet-the-drm-drones
[2]: http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/USCO-letters/EPA_Letter_to_USCO_re_1201.pdf
[3]: https://www.softwarefreedom.org/
[4]: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/nyregion/volkswagens-diesel-fraud-makes-critic-of-secret-code-a-prophet.html
[5]: https://sfconservancy.org/
[6]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/09/researchers-could-have-uncovered-volkswagens-emissions-cheat-if-not-hindered-dmca
[7]: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/sony
[8]: https://www.fsf.org/twitter
[9]: https://defectivebydesign.org/join
[10]: https://donate.fsf.org
--
* Follow us at <https://status.fsf.org/fsf>.
* Subscribe to our RSS feeds at <https://fsf.org/blogs/RSS>.
* Join us as an associate member at <https://www.fsf.org/jf>.

Sent from the Free Software Foundation,

51 Franklin St, Fifth Floor
Boston, Massachusetts 02110-1335
United States




From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Sep 28 23:58:55 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 06:58:55 +0000
Subject: What CBS Edited out of Putin's Interview [on "60 Minutes"]
Message-ID: <CAOsGNST0hFXKPu3nGJ=tKCt5JLiDX8BJ7dhMjSyCUAOU25PJzg@mail.gmail.com>

So, what was edited from Putin's rare "60 Minutes" interview on CBS?
Those bits embarrassing to USA government it seems - who would have thought ...
Enjoy,
Zenaan

"What CBS Edited out of Putin's Interview"
http://russia-insider.com/en/media-criticism/what-cbs-edited-out-putins-interview/ri9988

A full transcript and a youtube link is here:
"UPDATED: "We know everything" - Putin's interview on American CBS
PLUS what was cut from the interview"
http://fortruss.blogspot.si/2015/09/putins-interview-on-american-60-minutes.html




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Sep 28 23:05:55 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 09:05:55 +0300
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQz7UmGJ9bfRi_bX+BV0YapMHmku=jfQ4Z1Zo7TJ7Vqtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150928112142.GC2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150928130855.GA51580@r4>
 <CAOsGNSQz7UmGJ9bfRi_bX+BV0YapMHmku=jfQ4Z1Zo7TJ7Vqtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150929060555.GA2518@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:53:38PM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On 9/28/15, Tom <tom at vondein.org> wrote:
> > in germany this is at least known since 2007:
> 
> CIA never lets a good opportunity go to waste - keep such aces up
> sleeves for future threat and or retaliation 'opportunity'.
>

IMHO besides VW others outside Germany should be punished too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volkswagen_emissions_violations&oldid=683264419


The U.S. test results confirmed the ICCT's findings in Europe.[37] The
West Virginia scientists didn't identify the defeat device, but reported
their findings in a study they presented directly to the EPA and CARB in
May 2014.[41][42]


And in 2013 there was warning about "defeat device".





From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Sep 29 03:27:02 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 10:27:02 +0000
Subject: And here it is - In UN Speech Putin Blasts US Foreign Policy
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSNztNVfkGAOM15eFbi1ecO3vJxURn+fPOuPfT7e_+NwQ@mail.gmail.com>

In UN Speech Putin Blasts US Foreign Policy
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/un-speech-putin-blasts-us-foreign-policy/ri10001
(includes full official transcript)

And, as the image tells, Obama not happy:
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/multinational-deal-may-allow-assad-stay/ri10004
"Multinational Deal May Allow Assad to Stay"

(Many quotes I am tempted to quote, but better is enjoy the fullness
of this blessing in action. The world be grateful. Z)




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 29 01:59:58 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 11:59:58 +0300
Subject: Allegedly Volkswagen cheated to both governments and lusers
In-Reply-To: <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150927103913.GA2584@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2016654741.1567232.1443375840565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
 <20150928104137.GB2569@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <0B73AF69-673C-491D-83A9-32A1970789A2@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150929085958.GC2518@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 12:00:52PM +0100, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> I gather it was discovered when a trade association was setting out to show off how awesome and clean modern diesels were, and did their own tests on actual road driving unlike the EPA. They discovered how shit the pollution really was and decided to report it.
> 
> Which, if that's accurate, really reaffirms my faith in some of humanity, because it was actively against their interests to do so?
>

AFAICT this was discovered by scholars, not regulators
(check wikipedia link).

Cheating EPA appears to be common practice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Volkswagen_emissions_violations&oldid=683264419

In 1973, Chrysler, Ford Motor Company, General Motors, Toyota, and
Volkswagen had to remove ambient temperature switches which affected
emissions, though the companies denied intentional cheating and said
that strategies like enriching fuel mixture during cold engine warm-up
periods could reduce overall pollution.


In 1996 General Motors had to pay a near-record fine of $11 million, and
had to recall almost as many cars as Volkswagen's US TDI diesels,
470,000, when they, like Volkswagen, programmed ECU software to
disengage emissions controls during conditions known to exist when the
cars were not being lab tested by the EPA.


There are more cases linked.





From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 29 04:35:15 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 14:35:15 +0300
Subject: And here it is - In UN Speech Putin Blasts US Foreign Policy
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSSNztNVfkGAOM15eFbi1ecO3vJxURn+fPOuPfT7e_+NwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSSNztNVfkGAOM15eFbi1ecO3vJxURn+fPOuPfT7e_+NwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150929113515.GD2518@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 10:27:02AM +0000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> In UN Speech Putin Blasts US Foreign Policy
> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/un-speech-putin-blasts-us-foreign-policy/ri10001
> (includes full official transcript)
> 
> And, as the image tells, Obama not happy:
> http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/multinational-deal-may-allow-assad-stay/ri10004
> "Multinational Deal May Allow Assad to Stay"
> 
> (Many quotes I am tempted to quote, but better is enjoy the fullness
> of this blessing in action. The world be grateful. Z)

Someone claimed russia and the usa are quarrelling about geopolitical
interests, (likely about the russian military bases in syria) and eu
takes care of the refugees.

At least there is seemingly some kind of "competition" and not a single
oligarch.




From me at brendafernandez.com  Tue Sep 29 19:29:17 2015
From: me at brendafernandez.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Brenda_Fern=C3=A1ndez?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 23:29:17 -0300
Subject: Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
Message-ID: <CALQy+B3wmHShJuiky76U0RgSfFUwBtKWumxWb3kF4khv-32nYw@mail.gmail.com>

 Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
Posted on September 30, 2015
<http://qntra.net/2015/09/windows-truecrypt-fatally-flawed/> by Bingo Boingo
<http://qntra.net/author/bingoboingo/>

Continued research after the first TrueCrypt audit yielded inconclusive
results has discovered fatal privilege escalation vulnerabilities allowing
for complete takeover
<http://www.itworld.com/article/2987438/newly-found-truecrypt-flaw-allows-full-system-compromise.html>
(archived <https://archive.is/tJSlv>). So far this is known to affect
TrueCrypt on Windows boxes
<http://qntra.net/2015/08/windows-10-banned-from-numerous-torrent-trackers/>,
but there is still potential for other flaws to be discovered in TrueCrypt
on other platforms. Details of the vulnerabilities are not yet disclosed,
but this supports the possibility that it may not be possible at all to
develop software offering any level of security on the Windows platform.
This entry was posted in News <http://qntra.net/category/news/>, Software
<http://qntra.net/category/software/>. Bookmark the permalink
<http://qntra.net/2015/09/windows-truecrypt-fatally-flawed/>.
One thought on “Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed”

   1. Bingo Boingo says:
   September 30, 2015 at 12:44 am
   <http://qntra.net/2015/09/windows-truecrypt-fatally-flawed/#comment-62417>

   Further: The VeraCrypt derivative forked from TrueCrypt though this
   particular issue was reportedly patched, likely continues to posses
   undiscovered security issues.



-- 
Brenda Fernández
me at brendafernandez.com
GPG: CE5BEE6C81FCA4D4
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCE5BEE6C81FCA4D4>
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From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 00:45:53 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 00:45:53 -0700
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> ...
> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his response
> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.


they have an onion:
  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/

use it to avoid CF entirely!


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 22:26:18 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 01:26:18 -0400
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>

https://twitter.com/Snowden




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 22:48:39 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 01:48:39 -0400
Subject: US Pres Candidate Carly Fiorina Supplies NSA, Spying, Torture,
 Warmongering and Bankruptcy
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_O7VUWQhykjigSyhxS=0dHpiuVN2jvwTOf3ysd1Xn2Ag@mail.gmail.com>

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/carly-fiorina-defends-bush-era-torture-and-spying-130015256041.html
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/15/09/29/220239/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping

According to an article at Motherboard, shortly after 9/11, NSA
director Michael Hayden requested extra computing power and Carly
Fiorina, then CEO of HP, responded by re-routing truckloads of servers
to the agency. Fiorina acknowledged providing the servers to the NSA
during an interview with Michael Isikoff in which she defended
warrantless surveillance (as well as waterboarding) and framed her
collaboration with the NSA in patriotic terms. Fiorina's compliance
with Hayden's request for HP servers is but one episode in a
long-running and close relationship between the GOP presidential
hopeful and U.S. intelligence agencies.
$500 billion over ten years by one estimate—and an upgrade of “every
leg of the nuclear triad,”




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 02:39:01 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 02:39:01 -0700
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1T5ADPJMm6t3WWgvqUXEG5W_8DgauJCxXTb+qB9kxwenw@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
> freedom.press and not the onion.

two images, and piwik.js for analytics - none necessary, and this a problem?

sure, they should fix it. but far from evidence of complicity or negligence...

i have emailed them about the resources linked from the hidden
service, but again, i don't fault them if they don't address it soon.
it's NBD, honestly!


best regards,




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Sep 29 20:28:12 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 03:28:12 +0000
Subject: Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
In-Reply-To: <CALQy+B3wmHShJuiky76U0RgSfFUwBtKWumxWb3kF4khv-32nYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQy+B3wmHShJuiky76U0RgSfFUwBtKWumxWb3kF4khv-32nYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQD3KgJeBGh1pHtuMDaY5-R=h54qMZse0taXL0rLRZgYA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/15, Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:
>  Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
> Posted on September 30, 2015
> <http://qntra.net/2015/09/windows-truecrypt-fatally-flawed/> by Bingo
> Boingo
> <http://qntra.net/author/bingoboingo/>
>
> Continued research after the first TrueCrypt audit
> yielded inconclusive results has discovered fatal
> privilege escalation vulnerabilities

Noting "privilege escalation vulnerabilities" the nature of the "fatal
flaw" is not what the subject might otherwise suggest... evidently
someone wants some publicity, or wants to spread FUD.




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 06:58:15 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 06:58:15 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rwaq1fvE8p-s1JwOANvMc7X2E75bx5eNd4KGJapt6Nuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TU5Frg3WOJk+3ZFEH0QAFya5xZnwzCfCUE+hL1NhKUFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q0SDo9Fj3KAU9vA3cxR2=7pwcdpO3Ex=yi6g2WtRAg6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Srrb08Z9XvG+rYq30p2E_MnhJA6ynOLpdT--6gCvwiyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RXD2dr16TJZK-MPcJm7nR0Ov=Dp9i5Anf5hKNFs2hq7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S97DSPk0NBjgon1LS4HHuGtq_03dqFppUnWq+t61a41A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyW_wOUcFUo6STbiePO8HmLV9LgF-PCgugvuPRD_tKWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QaYYF=hoSQiSd4SHNUj-W6hjEJDhy1KxR9CfFKDgNkew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TvZxj_qz6_xK8h13LOD-5mE6iNvT9dnThf4ue0_=kY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RbeuzfiVAOqaZ15p8kr67jxcBoNMOrJkt3K86_=FuVXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <000701d0bcb7$94118e80$bc34ab80$@co.uk>
 <CAJVRA1SE1O-PqmkV8vX=q5j_xs-YFOpH=OLxSvwaT8BBvadQmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TwM3Re8Tz6NPxp_CeY5C4K3QN+Ceo5VbW3JKMbBABv9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SbqTrEbUJ84rLFWdu6+psY5uUzu-ZsVfyUwoSaMRcGdQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RDN6HsLCbF_wsK+zARO9PaEn80R9FSGnWgGVF4XkbbpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Rt2gKvgnM0MCiqf2Q4vJ8wWxm=KabcQXeBYSqn4zRvKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q95CKTVahkfQeH_pwaGDcgJ-4OL2=9o5ckQrZLG8HeUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SyX65OE9-7DQ1hP1fGWHxY8rvCqFXhKPu4Oy4o6wt0gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SgoLtLFS9AFf_d043AGDVbKp4djDtijDR+zfCRJ8twTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SvN5ML7TQnOUqz78PhYv8aefz=k8-4fPOwv2uHUVF3_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Ry2EV7qaFHmZJ9cjm8-waCNBCzenO9BpqW+YKChEHX7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1S5juVmB6Ouy0JWbdeJdj9yz0W6tKQDY2q_zi+AC461EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SYO0ia4VGLwFwZFowkD75YR61MC1TNc1wzHbZtmhy1_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SqWMVy6m6KuiJWQQG_6XPWoB+86-p45PWKvfn8wg_jeA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RWaiCZtig6+Seyk-UN9M3h9+2iZ0Otnqb6n=AFcRAeRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QzHeh=rs0hRf0sugLZdbXvAhK+2Yte5Tbt_Tnv5Tf8mg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SdAW+36Z8yYTdSFTtz8S8U5aiELv5NiuXg5Rg-vaFYew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Svk488ax6sd4oy52rfM_u_E1EuzhUAQt6cQ2Jy5yRx5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1S4=X5P6hKnZu224GjseL5ws1vRm6Gk4gJ+DG06oLjaDA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/27/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ... less interesting reply, but ...

from the comforting responses dept., a legit Glomar:  [it's been a while!]

 "The list of origin IPv4 CIDR prefixes or distinct IPv4 addresses
used by the Office of Tailored Access Operations (TAO) within the
QUANTUMSQUIRREL covert access network, which is able to impersonate
any IPv4 address. Note that this program has been widely discussed in
the press thus removing any claims of sensitivity on this subject
matter. C.f. "The NSA and GCHQ’s QUANTUMTHEORY Hacking Tactics".
firstlook.org. 2014-07-16:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/document/2014/03/12/nsa-gchqs-quantumtheory-hacking-tactics/
. Please break out the list of impersonated endpoints by year, if
possible."

'The request has been rejected, with the agency stating that it can
neither confirm nor deny the existence of the requested documents.'

 - https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/deezquantumsquirrelsrnutz-21241/


best regards,




From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Sep 30 01:11:15 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:11:15 +0000
Subject: US Pres Candidate Carly Fiorina Supplies NSA, Spying, Torture,
 Warmongering and Bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_O7VUWQhykjigSyhxS=0dHpiuVN2jvwTOf3ysd1Xn2Ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_O7VUWQhykjigSyhxS=0dHpiuVN2jvwTOf3ysd1Xn2Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSXFhpsV-UnN9HnW_w+qqZJzVz3xe2=dzkupvd=CeU8GA@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/30/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping
> https://www.yahoo.com/politics/carly-fiorina-defends-bush-era-torture-and-spying-130015256041.html
> http://politics.slashdot.org/story/15/09/29/220239/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping
>
> According to an article at Motherboard, shortly after 9/11, NSA
> director Michael Hayden requested extra computing power and Carly
> Fiorina, then CEO of HP, responded by re-routing truckloads of servers
> to the agency. Fiorina acknowledged providing the servers to the NSA
> during an interview with Michael Isikoff in which she defended
> warrantless surveillance (as well as waterboarding) and framed her
> collaboration with the NSA in patriotic terms. Fiorina's compliance
> with Hayden's request for HP servers is but one episode in a
> long-running and close relationship between the GOP presidential
> hopeful and U.S. intelligence agencies.
> $500 billion over ten years by one estimate—and an upgrade of “every
> leg of the nuclear triad,”

Perhaps the subject should just say "Money (its corrupting power)".
Impossible to believe that HP "rerouted" it's servers without any
financial gain for the company.

Besides highlighting (thanks grarpamp) such abominations of anything
resembling human decency/ human rights/ empathy/ fellowship etc
("torture is ok in this situation because..." - oh really), I don't
know what else we can do to incentivise "doing the right thing" or
disincentivise "doing the wrong thing". The nature of corporations is
profit at any cost - and the sacrifice of anything other than profit
is the cost.

Perhaps more humans will aspire to something beyond the animalistic
part of their nature...
Zenaan




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 00:13:09 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:13:09 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>

It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services names to their existing certs as alternative Names.

So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web application firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is terminating it.

Given CF handle over 4% of web traffic it is a great place to collect and collate what was encrypted traffic for monitoring and anti-privacy purposes.

Cheers,
Oshwm.

On 30 September 2015 07:25:42 BST, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 01:26:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>> https://twitter.com/Snowden
>
>https://freedom.press/ of which Snowden is director has weird
>certificate, sharing a lot of Alt names:
>
>
>Alt names for ssl7272.cloudflare.com (freedom.press certificate):
>
>DNS Name: ssl7272.cloudflare.com
>DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.cn
>DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.tw
>DNS Name: *.betteroff.net
>DNS Name: *.elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
>DNS Name: *.elfourno.com
>DNS Name: *.errolskebabhouse.com
>DNS Name: *.everestbhansaghar.com
>DNS Name: *.everestdine.com
>DNS Name: *.expresskebabcrayford.com
>DNS Name: *.fafawispizza.com
>DNS Name: *.familykebab.com
>DNS Name: *.familykebabhouse.com
>DNS Name: *.fanellispizza.com
>DNS Name: *.fanellistakeaway.com
>DNS Name: *.farsleyfastfood.com
>DNS Name: *.fastfoodstoke.com
>DNS Name: *.favoritechickengrays.com
>DNS Name: *.favourfastfood.com
>DNS Name: *.freedom.press
>DNS Name: *.harpqualified.com
>DNS Name: *.haykobagdat.com
>DNS Name: *.helptohelp.se
>DNS Name: *.mcmistanbul.com
>DNS Name: *.ploughinn.com.au
>DNS Name: *.seomate.com
>DNS Name: *.zenithsecure.com
>DNS Name: beauty88.com.cn
>DNS Name: beauty88.com.tw
>DNS Name: betteroff.net
>DNS Name: elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
>DNS Name: elfourno.com
>DNS Name: errolskebabhouse.com
>DNS Name: everestbhansaghar.com
>DNS Name: everestdine.com
>DNS Name: expresskebabcrayford.com
>DNS Name: fafawispizza.com
>DNS Name: familykebab.com
>DNS Name: familykebabhouse.com
>DNS Name: fanellispizza.com
>DNS Name: fanellistakeaway.com
>DNS Name: farsleyfastfood.com
>DNS Name: fastfoodstoke.com
>DNS Name: favoritechickengrays.com
>DNS Name: favourfastfood.com
>DNS Name: freedom.press
>DNS Name: harpqualified.com
>DNS Name: haykobagdat.com
>DNS Name: helptohelp.se
>DNS Name: mcmistanbul.com
>DNS Name: ploughinn.com.au
>DNS Name: seomate.com
>DNS Name: zenithsecure.com

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 00:33:18 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:33:18 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Sorry, didn't sign :P

Also,

I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his response was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.

One of the guys on here, razer ray?, linked to a Yasha Levine article linking CF CEO to Project Honeypot and reckoned he was encouraged to start CF by DoD or some other Gov agency.

I'm not a big fan of Yasha and don't entirely trust what he writes (just an opinion, don't sue :D ) but there were news articles in other websites about some of this stuff.

So, you have to make up your own mind but  i block CF IP addresses and have decided that freedom.press is an evil entity.

Cheers,
Oshwm.

On 30 September 2015 08:13:09 BST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services names to
>their existing certs as alternative Names.
>
>So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web
>application firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is
>terminating it.
>
>Given CF handle over 4% of web traffic it is a great place to collect
>and collate what was encrypted traffic for monitoring and anti-privacy
>purposes.
>
>Cheers,
>Oshwm.
>
>On 30 September 2015 07:25:42 BST, Georgi Guninski
><guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 01:26:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>> https://twitter.com/Snowden
>>
>>https://freedom.press/ of which Snowden is director has weird
>>certificate, sharing a lot of Alt names:
>>
>>
>>Alt names for ssl7272.cloudflare.com (freedom.press certificate):
>>
>>DNS Name: ssl7272.cloudflare.com
>>DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.cn
>>DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.tw
>>DNS Name: *.betteroff.net
>>DNS Name: *.elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
>>DNS Name: *.elfourno.com
>>DNS Name: *.errolskebabhouse.com
>>DNS Name: *.everestbhansaghar.com
>>DNS Name: *.everestdine.com
>>DNS Name: *.expresskebabcrayford.com
>>DNS Name: *.fafawispizza.com
>>DNS Name: *.familykebab.com
>>DNS Name: *.familykebabhouse.com
>>DNS Name: *.fanellispizza.com
>>DNS Name: *.fanellistakeaway.com
>>DNS Name: *.farsleyfastfood.com
>>DNS Name: *.fastfoodstoke.com
>>DNS Name: *.favoritechickengrays.com
>>DNS Name: *.favourfastfood.com
>>DNS Name: *.freedom.press
>>DNS Name: *.harpqualified.com
>>DNS Name: *.haykobagdat.com
>>DNS Name: *.helptohelp.se
>>DNS Name: *.mcmistanbul.com
>>DNS Name: *.ploughinn.com.au
>>DNS Name: *.seomate.com
>>DNS Name: *.zenithsecure.com
>>DNS Name: beauty88.com.cn
>>DNS Name: beauty88.com.tw
>>DNS Name: betteroff.net
>>DNS Name: elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
>>DNS Name: elfourno.com
>>DNS Name: errolskebabhouse.com
>>DNS Name: everestbhansaghar.com
>>DNS Name: everestdine.com
>>DNS Name: expresskebabcrayford.com
>>DNS Name: fafawispizza.com
>>DNS Name: familykebab.com
>>DNS Name: familykebabhouse.com
>>DNS Name: fanellispizza.com
>>DNS Name: fanellistakeaway.com
>>DNS Name: farsleyfastfood.com
>>DNS Name: fastfoodstoke.com
>>DNS Name: favoritechickengrays.com
>>DNS Name: favourfastfood.com
>>DNS Name: freedom.press
>>DNS Name: harpqualified.com
>>DNS Name: haykobagdat.com
>>DNS Name: helptohelp.se
>>DNS Name: mcmistanbul.com
>>DNS Name: ploughinn.com.au
>>DNS Name: seomate.com
>>DNS Name: zenithsecure.com
>
>--
>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Sep 29 23:37:27 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:37:27 +0200
Subject: Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQD3KgJeBGh1pHtuMDaY5-R=h54qMZse0taXL0rLRZgYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQy+B3wmHShJuiky76U0RgSfFUwBtKWumxWb3kF4khv-32nYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSQD3KgJeBGh1pHtuMDaY5-R=h54qMZse0taXL0rLRZgYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1501107.UbdWF0u34S@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 30 września 2015 03:28:12 Zenaan Harkness pisze:
> On 9/30/15, Brenda Fernández <me at brendafernandez.com> wrote:
> >  Windows TrueCrypt Fatally Flawed
> > 
> > Posted on September 30, 2015
> > <http://qntra.net/2015/09/windows-truecrypt-fatally-flawed/> by Bingo
> > Boingo
> > <http://qntra.net/author/bingoboingo/>
> > 
> > Continued research after the first TrueCrypt audit
> > yielded inconclusive results has discovered fatal
> > privilege escalation vulnerabilities
> 
> Noting "privilege escalation vulnerabilities" the nature of the "fatal
> flaw" is not what the subject might otherwise suggest... evidently
> someone wants some publicity, or wants to spread FUD.

My thoughts exactly. I was expecting "OMG LEA CAN READ YOUR CRYPTOSTUFFZ!!1!" 
kind of thing.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 01:15:11 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:15:11 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>

Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from freedom.press and not the onion.

We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now allow third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable business practice.

Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see what you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a better picture of you.

Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D

On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>> ...
>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his
>response
>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
>
>
>they have an onion:
>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>
>use it to avoid CF entirely!
>
>
>best regards,

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Sep 29 23:25:42 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:25:42 +0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 01:26:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> https://twitter.com/Snowden

https://freedom.press/ of which Snowden is director has weird
certificate, sharing a lot of Alt names:


Alt names for ssl7272.cloudflare.com (freedom.press certificate):

DNS Name: ssl7272.cloudflare.com
DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.cn
DNS Name: *.beauty88.com.tw
DNS Name: *.betteroff.net
DNS Name: *.elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
DNS Name: *.elfourno.com
DNS Name: *.errolskebabhouse.com
DNS Name: *.everestbhansaghar.com
DNS Name: *.everestdine.com
DNS Name: *.expresskebabcrayford.com
DNS Name: *.fafawispizza.com
DNS Name: *.familykebab.com
DNS Name: *.familykebabhouse.com
DNS Name: *.fanellispizza.com
DNS Name: *.fanellistakeaway.com
DNS Name: *.farsleyfastfood.com
DNS Name: *.fastfoodstoke.com
DNS Name: *.favoritechickengrays.com
DNS Name: *.favourfastfood.com
DNS Name: *.freedom.press
DNS Name: *.harpqualified.com
DNS Name: *.haykobagdat.com
DNS Name: *.helptohelp.se
DNS Name: *.mcmistanbul.com
DNS Name: *.ploughinn.com.au
DNS Name: *.seomate.com
DNS Name: *.zenithsecure.com
DNS Name: beauty88.com.cn
DNS Name: beauty88.com.tw
DNS Name: betteroff.net
DNS Name: elderslie-babylon-fastfood.com
DNS Name: elfourno.com
DNS Name: errolskebabhouse.com
DNS Name: everestbhansaghar.com
DNS Name: everestdine.com
DNS Name: expresskebabcrayford.com
DNS Name: fafawispizza.com
DNS Name: familykebab.com
DNS Name: familykebabhouse.com
DNS Name: fanellispizza.com
DNS Name: fanellistakeaway.com
DNS Name: farsleyfastfood.com
DNS Name: fastfoodstoke.com
DNS Name: favoritechickengrays.com
DNS Name: favourfastfood.com
DNS Name: freedom.press
DNS Name: harpqualified.com
DNS Name: haykobagdat.com
DNS Name: helptohelp.se
DNS Name: mcmistanbul.com
DNS Name: ploughinn.com.au
DNS Name: seomate.com
DNS Name: zenithsecure.com





From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Sep 30 01:25:50 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:25:50 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>

Since you're in contact with the webadmins already, submit the absolute refs as bugs, suggedt making them relative so the onion site loads them correctly.

On 30 September 2015 09:15:11 IST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
>freedom.press and not the onion.
>
>We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now allow
>third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable
>business practice.
>
>Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see what
>you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a better
>picture of you.
>
>Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D
>
>On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his
>>response
>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
>>
>>
>>they have an onion:
>>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>>
>>use it to avoid CF entirely!
>>
>>
>>best regards,
>
>-- 
>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 01:31:38 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:31:38 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Nope, he came across as a cunt so fuck 'em.
Someone else can raise it with them.


On 30 September 2015 09:25:50 BST, "Cathal (Phone)" <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>Since you're in contact with the webadmins already, submit the absolute
>refs as bugs, suggedt making them relative so the onion site loads them
>correctly.
>
>On 30 September 2015 09:15:11 IST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>>Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
>>freedom.press and not the onion.
>>
>>We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now allow
>>third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable
>>business practice.
>>
>>Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see what
>>you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a
>better
>>picture of you.
>>
>>Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D
>>
>>On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his
>>>response
>>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
>>>
>>>
>>>they have an onion:
>>>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>>>
>>>use it to avoid CF entirely!
>>>
>>>
>>>best regards,
>>
>>--
>>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>--
>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From marksteward at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 01:35:36 2015
From: marksteward at gmail.com (Mark Steward)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:35:36 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
 <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAPyX2neWQAaNgcWz+687v_mAZbW6jy9w3Ub47scPNnVWFKHLFw@mail.gmail.com>

Did you open by calling him and his choice of internet delivery platform
evil?

Mark
On 30 Sep 2015 09:33, "Oshwm" <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Nope, he came across as a cunt so fuck 'em.
> Someone else can raise it with them.
>
>
> On 30 September 2015 09:25:50 BST, "Cathal (Phone)" <
> cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> >Since you're in contact with the webadmins already, submit the absolute
> >refs as bugs, suggedt making them relative so the onion site loads them
> >correctly.
> >
> >On 30 September 2015 09:15:11 IST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >>Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
> >>freedom.press and not the onion.
> >>
> >>We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now allow
> >>third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable
> >>business practice.
> >>
> >>Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see what
> >>you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a
> >better
> >>picture of you.
> >>
> >>Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D
> >>
> >>On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his
> >>>response
> >>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>they have an onion:
> >>>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
> >>>
> >>>use it to avoid CF entirely!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>best regards,
> >>
> >>--
> >>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >
> >--
> >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> - --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 01:41:26 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (Oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:41:26 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAPyX2neWQAaNgcWz+687v_mAZbW6jy9w3Ub47scPNnVWFKHLFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
 <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
 <CAPyX2neWQAaNgcWz+687v_mAZbW6jy9w3Ub47scPNnVWFKHLFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D75E86E-B42B-4C33-A942-753D3AC03762@openmailbox.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

No, as someone who works as a network engineer and knows how to approach another network engineer i was very respectful and trying to be helpful.
Approaching it as a potential oversight and was surprised at the response i got.


On 30 September 2015 09:35:36 BST, Mark Steward <marksteward at gmail.com> wrote:
>Did you open by calling him and his choice of internet delivery
>platform
>evil?
>
>Mark
>On 30 Sep 2015 09:33, "Oshwm" <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> Nope, he came across as a cunt so fuck 'em.
>> Someone else can raise it with them.
>>
>>
>> On 30 September 2015 09:25:50 BST, "Cathal (Phone)" <
>> cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>> >Since you're in contact with the webadmins already, submit the
>absolute
>> >refs as bugs, suggedt making them relative so the onion site loads
>them
>> >correctly.
>> >
>> >On 30 September 2015 09:15:11 IST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org>
>wrote:
>> >>Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
>> >>freedom.press and not the onion.
>> >>
>> >>We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now
>allow
>> >>third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable
>> >>business practice.
>> >>
>> >>Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see
>what
>> >>you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a
>> >better
>> >>picture of you.
>> >>
>> >>Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D
>> >>
>> >>On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >>>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>> >>>> ...
>> >>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and
>his
>> >>>response
>> >>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being
>DDoS'd.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>they have an onion:
>> >>>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>> >>>
>> >>>use it to avoid CF entirely!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>best regards,
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
>brevity.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> - --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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>>
>>

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Sep 30 09:57:15 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:57:15 -0700
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20150930101534.GC2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930101534.GC2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <560C146B.6000603@riseup.net>

ident.ca in no longer in biz

On 09/30/2015 03:15 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:45:53AM -0700, coderman wrote:
>> On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his response
>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
>>
>> they have an onion:
>>   http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>>
> Shouldn't this be httpS://free...?
>
>> use it to avoid CF entirely!
>>
>>
> How do you know the onion service is not on cloudfare?
>
>
> If someone has twitter (I don't have even anonymous one), consider
> trolling Snowden ;)
>
> And possibly suggest setting account on identi.ca ;)
>


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Sep 30 11:20:21 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:20:21 -0700
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <560C27E5.6080505@riseup.net>

On 09/30/2015 12:33 AM, Oshwm wrote:
> So, you have to make up your own mind but  i block CF IP addresses and
> have decided that freedom.press is an evil entity.

Ditto.

Domain: freedom.press
IP Address: 108.162.200.15
ISP: CloudFlare
Region: San Francisco (US)

http://en.utrace.de/?query=freedom.press

I wouldn't trust cloudflare to wipe my balls and they seem to be the ISP
for freedomDOTpress


On 9/30/15, Oshwm also wrote:

> they have an onion:
>   http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
>
> use it to avoid CF entirely!

I wouldn't trust IT either. If you try logging into Hushmail using Tor
the security question overlay is hosted by... Cloudflare (but not the
rest of Hushmail). Would you suppose CF HAS a vested interest in
stalking Tor for the surveillance state apparatus?

My guess would be that's probably one of their pet surveillance projects.


I understand that a site like fpress undoubtedly needs dDos prevention
services but there has to be some other company providing that sort of
service that isn't connected like a Siamese twin at the wrists and
ankles to the surveillance state.


On 09/30/2015 03:15 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

> If someone has twitter (I don't have even anonymous one), consider
> trolling Snowden 


As a tweet from my account that I don't consider a troll:

> . at ggreenwald @Snowden freedomDOTpress relationship w Cloudflare that
> has siamese-twin like connections to the surveillance state, creeps me


On 09/30/2015 08:50 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:

> What would be solid is if there were a browser module that did several
> things:
> Eliminated JavaScript dynamic calls (eval, new function(), setTimeout,
> setInterval, so on.)
> Eliminate 3rd party assets.

I believe NoScript does this as an add-on. It can blacklist cloudflare
but some useful web services such as WeatherUnderground Weather are
badly affected, so fully blocking them limits the utility of the web. Id
say if one only allowed CF for services like that and never showed their
IP to cloudflare otherwise, it wouldn't give them much useful info about
someone.r.

My posts tagged cloudflare
<http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/cloudflare>. There's a certain
repetitiveness to the info but this one's a good place to start, with
links to the other related posts >>
<http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/119691050059>

BTW, Yasha Levine hooked me up with the CEO of cloudflare on Twitter one
day for a short hostile 'interview' when I questioned Cloudflare's
hosting of BB's Project PM. If you can't stomach weasel words I'd avoid
reading it.

RR

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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 30 01:26:22 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:26:22 +0300
Subject: freedompress is on cloudfare (Was: Snowden on the Twitters)
In-Reply-To: <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20150930082622.GB2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:33:18AM +0100, Oshwm wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> Sorry, didn't sign :P
> 
> Also,
> 
> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his response was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
> 
> One of the guys on here, razer ray?, linked to a Yasha Levine article linking CF CEO to Project Honeypot and reckoned he was encouraged to start CF by DoD or some other Gov agency.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of Yasha and don't entirely trust what he writes (just an opinion, don't sue :D ) but there were news articles in other websites about some of this stuff.
> 
> So, you have to make up your own mind but  i block CF IP addresses and have decided that freedom.press is an evil entity.
>

I don't know if freedompress are "evil entity", but if they
are evil entity, they could have chosen clean provider and
cooperate with other evil entities.

IMHO the nsa and the like have spoofing/MITM certs trusted by
major browsers, so I don't trust TLS/SSL from a browser as
used by the majority of user.

Might be wrong on both.




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 08:50:41 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 11:50:41 -0400
Subject: CloudFlare Keyless SSL WAS Re: Snowden on the Twitters
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zdQCroEFu6G5e4M9RqpvaEHNSvoRp75iurxzqeXVfDQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>

An oldie, somewhat OT.

I enjoyed CF's bit of engineering here - of course CF is still a point
where they are working with injectable plaintext. At least they don't have
your private key material.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/keyless-ssl-the-nitty-gritty-technical-details/

What would be solid is if there were a browser module that did several
things:
Eliminated JavaScript dynamic calls (eval, new function(), setTimeout,
setInterval, so on.)
Eliminate 3rd party assets.
Allowed web assets to be signed.
Allowed sets of web assets to be versioned (and attested to by 3rd parties.)

Dynamic HTML and JS (read, non-static HTML & JS) would not be supported.

The combination of signing, versioning and lack of dynamic features paves
the way for uninjectable, client-side in browser encryption/decryption.
Something AFAIK we cannot do today. Is anyone working on it?

-Travis

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 01:26:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> > https://twitter.com/Snowden
>
> How this scores on twatter:
>
> 1.03 meeelion followers for about 23 hours on twatter?
> (not sure about the error terms).
>
>


-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 30 03:15:34 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:15:34 +0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150930101534.GC2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 12:45:53AM -0700, coderman wrote:
> On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> > ...
> > I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his response
> > was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
> 
> 
> they have an onion:
>   http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
> 

Shouldn't this be httpS://free...?

> use it to avoid CF entirely!
> 
>
How do you know the onion service is not on cloudfare?


If someone has twitter (I don't have even anonymous one), consider
trolling Snowden ;)

And possibly suggest setting account on identi.ca ;)




From cyberkiller8 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 05:43:31 2015
From: cyberkiller8 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=c5=81ukasz_'Cyber_Killer'_Korpalski?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:43:31 +0200
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20150930101534.GC2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930101534.GC2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <560BD8F3.9050400@gmail.com>

W dniu 30.09.2015 o 12:15, Georgi Guninski pisze:

> 
> And possibly suggest setting account on identi.ca ;)
> 

identi.ca no longer hosts a microblog service, it now hosts a general
social webapp called pump.io (which is a federated service, though it
doesn't seem too popular).

What became of the status.net microblog network (which identi.ca was the
largest node before it changed the platform) is now called GNU Social,
with many federated instances, and the community there would welcome
Snowden with open arms (I saw a discussion about it yesterday).

-- 
Łukasz "Cyber Killer" Korpalski

mail: cyberkiller8 at gmail.com
xmpp: cyber_killer at jabster.pl
site: http://website.cybkil.cu.cc
gpgkey: 0x72511999 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net

//When replying to my e-mail, kindly please
//write your message below the quoted text.

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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 30 04:53:46 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:53:46 +0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:13:09AM +0100, Oshwm wrote:
> It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services names to their existing certs as alternative Names.
> 
> So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web application firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is terminating it.
> 


lol, did CA based PKI (d)evolved to buying an usable cert, but not
having the private key?

How do you survive large scale DDOS?

AFAICT most service providers will ditch you, since you are hurting
their other customers.

More ontopic, Snowden has nearly meeelion twatter actor followers and
some of them call him "traitor", not sure how he deals with the twatter
spam.

IIRC (from Snowden's dox) the dear NSA infiltrated some? CC of botnets,
so they can use them for any kind of DDOS.





From schear.steve at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 09:27:00 2015
From: schear.steve at gmail.com (Steven Schear)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:27:00 +0000
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAMyHXXfLLgfv6cO5cZyydL4GBMRMcF=BDAJqk1a3gEt9QgqvfA@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone here looked into http://blog.bittorrent.com/tag/maelstrom/ ?
It would seem to offer some DDoS and other protections.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:13:09AM +0100, Oshwm wrote:
> > It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services names to
> their existing certs as alternative Names.
> >
> > So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web application
> firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is terminating it.
> >
>
>
> lol, did CA based PKI (d)evolved to buying an usable cert, but not
> having the private key?
>
> How do you survive large scale DDOS?
>
> AFAICT most service providers will ditch you, since you are hurting
> their other customers.
>
> More ontopic, Snowden has nearly meeelion twatter actor followers and
> some of them call him "traitor", not sure how he deals with the twatter
> spam.
>
> IIRC (from Snowden's dox) the dear NSA infiltrated some? CC of botnets,
> so they can use them for any kind of DDOS.
>
>
>
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From schear.steve at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 09:30:04 2015
From: schear.steve at gmail.com (Steven Schear)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:30:04 +0000
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
 <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAMyHXXfPfGV+-BY4UtiWAPgKD+6Hwgy21LK6oTt4muVZeL0=6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Ryan Lackey, an early CPunk, worked for CF, in an influential position,
last year maybe still does.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Nope, he came across as a cunt so fuck 'em.
> Someone else can raise it with them.
>
>
> On 30 September 2015 09:25:50 BST, "Cathal (Phone)" <
> cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> >Since you're in contact with the webadmins already, submit the absolute
> >refs as bugs, suggedt making them relative so the onion site loads them
> >correctly.
> >
> >On 30 September 2015 09:15:11 IST, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >>Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
> >>freedom.press and not the onion.
> >>
> >>We have become so used to free or cheap web services that we now allow
> >>third parties to view or intercept our traffic as an acceptable
> >>business practice.
> >>
> >>Hosting providers, CDN, Web App Firewalls - all of them can see what
> >>you're doing and the bigger ones can collate all that and form a
> >better
> >>picture of you.
> >>
> >>Better hope they're all really nice, trustworthy people :D
> >>
> >>On 30 September 2015 08:45:53 BST, coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >>>On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>> I contacted one of the guys from freedom.press about this and his
> >>>response
> >>>> was that it was an acceptable risk because they were being DDoS'd.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>they have an onion:
> >>>  http://freepress3xxs3hk.onion/
> >>>
> >>>use it to avoid CF entirely!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>best regards,
> >>
> >>--
> >>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >
> >--
> >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> - --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: APG v1.1.1
>
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> =FJmK
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 14:45:06 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:45:06 -0400
Subject: CloudFlare Keyless SSL WAS Re: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <1443646338.695158.397968585.3B6987FA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CAKtE3zdQCroEFu6G5e4M9RqpvaEHNSvoRp75iurxzqeXVfDQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1443646338.695158.397968585.3B6987FA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zda+o65oJum2-9EYsFVv5npnSesfCO3Zz0F7mT6xnjXgA@mail.gmail.com>

So, one of the difficulties w/ web-apps is that the 'code' is dynamic. You
cannot implement a secure system if your attacker can change the code at
any point in time. As is the threat model with backends, which attest to
their 'trust me' security (a la lavabit, hushmail and so on) - so is the
problem with client side code. If you build a web-app which does in-browser
encryption and never sends the encryption key to the backend your attacker
can simply modify the static JS source, DOM inject and XSS their way to
your sweet sweet encrypted keys. Even if you audit your code at one point
in time, you aren't certain it doesn't change with every request to the
server.

SO

The first hurdle here is allowing users to reason about 'versions of
web-app client assets' - if any part of the 'web-app client' relies on
dynamic / non static JS, the application cannot effectively be 'versioned'
(unless those sub-components are similarly versionable). A subset of HTML
and JS is defined (safe javascript language subsets are a fail) AND the JS
VM is modified to 'lock in' its object defns after loading.

So, then you can take the set of client side assets (html, js, images so
on) hash each, add some version metadata and sign it. Version 1.

Now, users with the browser mod / plugin can then see version 1 of the
site. I can go out and post to CPunks statements like, Version 1 of
el8notes never sends your plaintext password to the server and all of your
communiques are encrypted before being sent to the server, and have them
hold true both now and in the future.

If you trust version 1 of el8notes, or you trust my assessments of
el8mailer you can then tell your sweet plugin: Version 1 of el8notes,
signature whatever is a-ok in my book.

Of course, this might not even require the participation of content
producers. Such a plugin could, in theory, create its own versioning for
web assets & distribute those observations to a P2P network.

-Travis

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Alfie John <alfiej at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015, at 01:50 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> > What would be solid is if there were a browser module that did several
> > things: Eliminated JavaScript dynamic calls (eval, new function(),
> > setTimeout, setInterval, so on.) Eliminate 3rd party assets. Allowed
> > web assets to be signed. Allowed sets of web assets to be versioned
> > (and attested to by 3rd parties.)
> >
> > The combination of signing, versioning and lack of dynamic features
> > paves the way for uninjectable, client-side in browser
> > encryption/decryption. Something AFAIK we cannot do today. Is anyone
> > working on it?
>
> So Nginx has a built-in module "ngx_http_gzip_module" which does the
> following (if "Accept-Encoding: gzip" was part of the request headers) :
>
>   - Sees request for "foo.html"
>   - Checks if "foo.html.gz" exists
>   - If so, serves that in place of the "foo.html"
>   - If not, gzips "foo.html" on the fly
>
> What would be nice is an Nginx module which did the same type of thing,
> but for hashing the body:
>
>   - Sees request for "foo.html"
>   - Checks if "foo.html.sha256" exists
>   - If so, serves "foo.html" along with "Content-Hash: <sha256>" header,
>     taken from contents of "foo.html.sha256"
>   - If not, serves "foo.html" along with "Content-Hash: <sha256>"
>     header, but calculated on the fly
>
> This would be a cheap and easy way to get some form of content hashing.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Alfie
>
> --
>   Alfie John
>   alfiej at fastmail.fm
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Sep 30 09:49:43 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:49:43 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAMyHXXfLLgfv6cO5cZyydL4GBMRMcF=BDAJqk1a3gEt9QgqvfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAMyHXXfLLgfv6cO5cZyydL4GBMRMcF=BDAJqk1a3gEt9QgqvfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C137E10B-433A-4AEF-A8A3-0EDB6A268FFA@cathalgarvey.me>

Bittorrent's stuff is always closed and obscure. Don't trust.

Ages back I live-tweeted (topical!) my explorations into BTSync back when they were claiming 256 bit AES. Suffice toto say.. no. They were using AES256 with a 20-something-byte key..base32 encoded. I don't even.

They'll happily advertise security while not even grasping that entropy doesn't increase with encoding overheads.

On 30 September 2015 17:27:00 IST, Steven Schear <schear.steve at gmail.com> wrote:
>Has anyone here looked into http://blog.bittorrent.com/tag/maelstrom/ ?
>It would seem to offer some DDoS and other protections.
>
>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Georgi Guninski
><guninski at guninski.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:13:09AM +0100, Oshwm wrote:
>> > It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services
>names to
>> their existing certs as alternative Names.
>> >
>> > So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web
>application
>> firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is terminating it.
>> >
>>
>>
>> lol, did CA based PKI (d)evolved to buying an usable cert, but not
>> having the private key?
>>
>> How do you survive large scale DDOS?
>>
>> AFAICT most service providers will ditch you, since you are hurting
>> their other customers.
>>
>> More ontopic, Snowden has nearly meeelion twatter actor followers and
>> some of them call him "traitor", not sure how he deals with the
>twatter
>> spam.
>>
>> IIRC (from Snowden's dox) the dear NSA infiltrated some? CC of
>botnets,
>> so they can use them for any kind of DDOS.
>>
>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 30 08:23:54 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:23:54 +0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150930152353.GE2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 01:26:18AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> https://twitter.com/Snowden

How this scores on twatter:

1.03 meeelion followers for about 23 hours on twatter?
(not sure about the error terms).




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 14:36:43 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:36:43 -0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <560c54b4.ea17370a.aa6df.688b@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 08:33:18 +0100
Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:


> I'm not a big fan of Yasha and don't entirely trust what he writes
> (just an opinion, don't sue :D ) 

	He seems to be a 'liberal' that is a left wing american
	fascist. But his stuff on the pentagon-funded tor mafia is spot
	on. 



> but there were news articles in
> other websites about some of this stuff.
> 
> So, you have to make up your own mind but  i block CF IP addresses
> and have decided that freedom.press is an evil entity.
> 
> Cheers,
> Oshwm.




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 12:38:14 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:38:14 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <560C3A26.4010709@openmailbox.org>



On 30/09/15 12:53, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:13:09AM +0100, Oshwm wrote:
>> It is behind Cloudflare's MiTM service which adds web services names to their existing certs as alternative Names.
>>
>> So your SSL/TLS connection is terminated on Cloudflare's web application firewalls and NOT the web servers that you think is terminating it.
>>
>
> lol, did CA based PKI (d)evolved to buying an usable cert, but not
> having the private key?

Not sure if I'm missing something here but CF's CEO confirmed what I had
tested on Twitter.
The Web Service owners have to give CF their private keys.
So they are complicit in giving away your "secure" communications to CF
(and whoever they are buddies with, whether it be Advertisers or NSA et al).
But they do not tell the end users that they are using a service such as
CF which if they did would at least give the end users a chance to make
their own mind up.

> How do you survive large scale DDOS?

This is an issue that needs to be looked at but using WAF's is not a
solution to DDoS, it's a malware solution so in fact they only need to
ensure your traffic passes through CF without decrypting it to gain DDoS
protection - that is a routing issue.

> AFAICT most service providers will ditch you, since you are hurting
> their other customers.

There is a big problem with the centralisation with the internet in this
way but it is also very difficult and costly to for a website to handle
large volumes of traffic in an independent DC.
But responding to DDoS by using services such as CF is playing into the
hands of the likes of the NSA who may well be behind a number of the
attacks in order to promote the CF "solution".

> More ontopic, Snowden has nearly meeelion twatter actor followers and
> some of them call him "traitor", not sure how he deals with the twatter
> spam.
>
> IIRC (from Snowden's dox) the dear NSA infiltrated some? CC of botnets,
> so they can use them for any kind of DDOS.
>
>

Snowden is a moderate extremist, he doesn't want transparent government
and private individuals, he just wants a discussion on where to draw the
line with surveillance, his leaks are purely to further this aim.
Assange and the people who have worked with him on leaks are more the
kind of people we need.




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 12:45:32 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:45:32 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1T5ADPJMm6t3WWgvqUXEG5W_8DgauJCxXTb+qB9kxwenw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>	<20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>	<CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>	<158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>	<CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>	<7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1T5ADPJMm6t3WWgvqUXEG5W_8DgauJCxXTb+qB9kxwenw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <560C3BDC.2040804@openmailbox.org>



On 30/09/15 10:39, coderman wrote:
> On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>> Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
>> freedom.press and not the onion.
> two images, and piwik.js for analytics - none necessary, and this a problem?

Yeh, it's a big problem, those three objects link your use of the onion
with your use of freedom.press and any other website you might use that
is hosted via CF.
At the very least, for any organisation who wants to be associated with
privacy or freedom movements then this is negligence.

>
> sure, they should fix it. but far from evidence of complicity or negligence...
>
> i have emailed them about the resources linked from the hidden
> service, but again, i don't fault them if they don't address it soon.
> it's NBD, honestly!

If they maintain their aloofness and satisfaction with not giving a fuck
about their end users then I don't expect them to change them - worst
case scenario they are supposed to be there, hopefully not.

>
> best regards,




From s at ctrlc.hu  Wed Sep 30 13:02:13 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:02:13 +0200
Subject: freedom.press, also the firstlook/intercept...
Message-ID: <20150930200213.GE13534@ctrlc.hu>

and they host all the juicy bits on documents on documentcloud, requiring
anyone interested to expose themselves. it is not possible to download the
dumps anonymously in a simple zip file, you really have to use goddamn
javascript.

this is totally unacceptable. when approached on this, you get very irritated
answers, if at all. to say "this stinks" is an understatement. it's a goddamn
trap.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From lithospheressk3 at rotemshani.com  Wed Sep 30 18:54:15 2015
From: lithospheressk3 at rotemshani.com (=?koi8-r?B?IuzV3tvFxSDLwXPJzs8gTGl2ZSI=?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:54:15 -0300
Subject: =?koi8-r?B?Iu/Ezs/S1cvJxSDCwc7EydTZIiDJINDSxcvSwdPO2cUg5OX39fvr6SDL?=
	=?koi8-r?B?0tXQ2MUgzsEgzsHbxc0g08HK1MUg?=
Message-ID: <000d01d0fbec$138b6320$6400a8c0@lithospheressk3>

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From list at sysfu.com  Wed Sep 30 23:03:57 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:03:57 -0700
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <2D75E86E-B42B-4C33-A942-753D3AC03762@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <158BB685-46FD-4D8B-BC80-05723A86C8E4@openmailbox.org>
 <CAJVRA1R3NfLCmJc_kcOQuvjHgvHCGkJYOB3pHQam9VOGJMHmng@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C3EC895-FC0B-4FE7-B22C-086ADCFC6AC9@openmailbox.org>
 <EAAB0EF2-5964-44FF-B4F3-DD46392ACA08@cathalgarvey.me>
 <A3CF6EC1-C568-4995-B6EE-9188BC1D44E3@openmailbox.org>
 <CAPyX2neWQAaNgcWz+687v_mAZbW6jy9w3Ub47scPNnVWFKHLFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2D75E86E-B42B-4C33-A942-753D3AC03762@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <op.x5tcgvunbgbjo9@mm.local>

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 01:41:26 -0700, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> No, as someone who works as a network engineer and knows how to approach  
> another network engineer i was very respectful and trying to be helpful.
> Approaching it as a potential oversight and was surprised at the  
> response i got.

That's pretty much par for the course in my experience.

Raising security issues web/network/sysadmins or worse yet developers,  
(always in a non confrontational way, to start), the dismissive responses  
and outright butt-hurt you typically get is beyond comprehension.

This is the reason I cackle with glee every-time a  
company/individual/product/service gets their 'cyber' ass handed to them,  
it's the only fucking way people seem to learn these lessons; the hard way.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Sep 30 14:22:58 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:22:58 +0200
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <2D75E86E-B42B-4C33-A942-753D3AC03762@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPyX2neWQAaNgcWz+687v_mAZbW6jy9w3Ub47scPNnVWFKHLFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2D75E86E-B42B-4C33-A942-753D3AC03762@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <2216887.gf8MQjvuep@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 30 września 2015 09:41:26 Oshwm pisze:
> No, as someone who works as a network engineer and knows how to approach
> another network engineer i was very respectful and trying to be helpful.
> Approaching it as a potential oversight and was surprised at the response i
> got.

Do a public write-up, then. Blogpost, preferably (please, not Failbork).

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Sep 30 14:23:43 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:23:43 +0200
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <560C3BDC.2040804@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1T5ADPJMm6t3WWgvqUXEG5W_8DgauJCxXTb+qB9kxwenw@mail.gmail.com>
 <560C3BDC.2040804@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <1583916.DVCrUd9meI@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 30 września 2015 20:45:32 oshwm pisze:
> On 30/09/15 10:39, coderman wrote:
> > On 9/30/15, Oshwm <oshwm at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> >> Which is ok but some of the objects loaded by the onion come from
> >> freedom.press and not the onion.
> > 
> > two images, and piwik.js for analytics - none necessary, and this a
> > problem?
> Yeh, it's a big problem, those three objects link your use of the onion
> with your use of freedom.press and any other website you might use that
> is hosted via CF.
> At the very least, for any organisation who wants to be associated with
> privacy or freedom movements then this is negligence.

+1

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From alfiej at fastmail.fm  Wed Sep 30 13:52:18 2015
From: alfiej at fastmail.fm (Alfie John)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 06:52:18 +1000
Subject: CloudFlare Keyless SSL WAS Re: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zdQCroEFu6G5e4M9RqpvaEHNSvoRp75iurxzqeXVfDQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKtE3zdQCroEFu6G5e4M9RqpvaEHNSvoRp75iurxzqeXVfDQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1443646338.695158.397968585.3B6987FA@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015, at 01:50 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> What would be solid is if there were a browser module that did several
> things: Eliminated JavaScript dynamic calls (eval, new function(),
> setTimeout, setInterval, so on.) Eliminate 3rd party assets. Allowed
> web assets to be signed. Allowed sets of web assets to be versioned
> (and attested to by 3rd parties.)
>
> The combination of signing, versioning and lack of dynamic features
> paves the way for uninjectable, client-side in browser
> encryption/decryption. Something AFAIK we cannot do today. Is anyone
> working on it?

So Nginx has a built-in module "ngx_http_gzip_module" which does the
following (if "Accept-Encoding: gzip" was part of the request headers) :

  - Sees request for "foo.html"
  - Checks if "foo.html.gz" exists
  - If so, serves that in place of the "foo.html"
  - If not, gzips "foo.html" on the fly

What would be nice is an Nginx module which did the same type of thing,
but for hashing the body:

  - Sees request for "foo.html"
  - Checks if "foo.html.sha256" exists
  - If so, serves "foo.html" along with "Content-Hash: <sha256>" header,
    taken from contents of "foo.html.sha256"
  - If not, serves "foo.html" along with "Content-Hash: <sha256>"
    header, but calculated on the fly

This would be a cheap and easy way to get some form of content hashing.

Thoughts?

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at fastmail.fm




From oshwm at openmailbox.org  Wed Sep 30 23:45:26 2015
From: oshwm at openmailbox.org (oshwm)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 07:45:26 +0100
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <20151001053452.GA2752@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$> <560C3A26.4010709@openmailbox.org>
 <20151001053452.GA2752@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <560CD686.8010501@openmailbox.org>

Yeh, that opinion came after an exchange with Greenwald on Twitter about
releasing the entire cache but unfortunately that Twitter account is
gone now due to Twitter's hatred of Tor so I can't fish it out.

But if you read through quotes from Snowden himself you see that he
leaked the information to cause a debate about how we should be
governed, not because he thinks the Government should be transparent.

A quote from his Wikipedia page (yeh I know no-one trusts Wikipedia but
sometimes it's handy):-

"For me, in terms of personal satisfaction, the mission's already
accomplished. I already won. As soon as the journalists were able to
work, everything that I had been trying to do was validated. Because,
remember, I didn't want to change society. I wanted to give society a
chance to determine if it should change itself. All I wanted was for the
public to be able to have a say in how they are governed."

On 01/10/15 06:34, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:38:14PM +0100, oshwm wrote:
>> Snowden is a moderate extremist, he doesn't want transparent government
>> and private individuals, he just wants a discussion on where to draw the
>> line with surveillance, his leaks are purely to further this aim.
>> Assange and the people who have worked with him on leaks are more the
>> kind of people we need.
> You well might be right that CF are evil. FP should have written on
> their privacy page they don't have the SSL private key.
>
> The claim about Snowden is quite strong, what is a reference for this?
>
>




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Sep 30 22:34:52 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:34:52 +0300
Subject: Snowden on the Twitters
In-Reply-To: <560C3A26.4010709@openmailbox.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-ZiZDAR_mLFAQqcgLVyyvrv2o2Kx3ri+jBK3o7aUF6QA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150930062542.GA2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CD8AB160-F010-43C7-8A05-091C48DE043D@openmailbox.org>
 <20150930115346.GD2618@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <560C3A26.4010709@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <20151001053452.GA2752@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 08:38:14PM +0100, oshwm wrote:
> 
> Snowden is a moderate extremist, he doesn't want transparent government
> and private individuals, he just wants a discussion on where to draw the
> line with surveillance, his leaks are purely to further this aim.
> Assange and the people who have worked with him on leaks are more the
> kind of people we need.

You well might be right that CF are evil. FP should have written on
their privacy page they don't have the SSL private key.

The claim about Snowden is quite strong, what is a reference for this?