From demonfighter at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 09:02:32 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 12:02:32 -0500
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i32fsemAqUJjZ2jc3aL2J2KGfTtX3kB8_CKDPdjv5=T9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANAJOb5rmke1xhBM1iBE2DZLH_DiAvS52Bc2s-TuKQcRiVUuAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used for child
porn

If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related to child
porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly not taking it at
face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already know the marketplaces to go
to and don't need to search for them.

Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I typed
"lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search engines. (That
last one was a typo, but the engine took it well enough.)

-- 
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 10:10:49 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 15:10:49 -0300
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQXXJCh+Rw=V-bt1nQSgR4nih0U4ot1+M1yn=QxrjQ2u3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i32fsemAqUJjZ2jc3aL2J2KGfTtX3kB8_CKDPdjv5=T9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANAJOb5rmke1xhBM1iBE2DZLH_DiAvS52Bc2s-TuKQcRiVUuAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXXJCh+Rw=V-bt1nQSgR4nih0U4ot1+M1yn=QxrjQ2u3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54a58d18.0910e00a.6060.ffff8945@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 09:06:45 +0100
Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> juan it is common knowledge that the snowden so called fucking leaks
> are given to the US gov before publication
> 

	Yes - I should have worded my comment a bit differently.

	What I was getting at is that they are not even pretending to
	somewhat hide the fact. Or even slightly obscure it? =P

	Then again, perhaps to the 'general public' the 'leaked' stuff
	looks oh so top secret...


> always remember and never forget gg was fully behind the war in iraq
> and why was he fully behind it ? revenge ... that tells you the mind
> that is working on the so called leaks
> 
> also laura she was an embed journo in iraq - something an activist
> journo wouldnt even think about doing lets not even fully talk about
> that she blindly backs the assange wikileaks 'merger' into one entity
> 
> and jeremy scahill did a selfie (among other ethical violations
> against woman) in samalia with a dead body in a morgue for his little
> movie, again something journalists dont do - even pond scum
> journalists dont get their picture took with dead bodies for camera -
> these are the ethical parameters of the people working with the info
> 
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > john likes to be poetic as a wall - dear john please listen to the
> > smart people and have a small bit of humility - it will make you
> > better at your job and we need EVERYONE to step up and be better at
> > their jobs
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 7:38 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:20 AM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hash this motherfucker, said math to germ.
> >>
> >> JYA, you, as the original publisher of various and valued
> >> datasets... the responsibility to calculate, sign, and publish
> >> said hashes rests with you alone. Please consult with any trusted
> >> parties should you need assistance in such matters. A future of
> >> archivers, disseminators, and analysts will thank you.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cari Machet
> > NYC 646-436-7795
> > carimachet at gmail.com
> > AIM carismachet
> > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> >
> > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> >
> > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are
> > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of
> > this information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> > email without permission is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 10:26:27 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 15:26:27 -0300
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CANAJOb5rmke1xhBM1iBE2DZLH_DiAvS52Bc2s-TuKQcRiVUuAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
> perfect plan...

	You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
	'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
	examples of statism. 

	
	"you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
want" 

	Yeah, it's called freedom.



> 
> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
> > > for
> > child porn
> >
> > If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
> > correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
> > to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
> > not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
> > know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
> >
> > Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
> > typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
> > engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
> > enough.)
> >
> > --
> > Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
> >
> 
> 
> 




From carimachet at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 09:45:48 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i32fsemAqUJjZ2jc3aL2J2KGfTtX3kB8_CKDPdjv5=T9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANAJOb5rmke1xhBM1iBE2DZLH_DiAvS52Bc2s-TuKQcRiVUuAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>

good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting (through
practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn sounds accurate
to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then you are left to your
own devices to do whatever the fuck you want - perfect plan...

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> > also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used for
> child porn
>
> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related to child
> porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly not taking it at
> face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already know the marketplaces to go
> to and don't need to search for them.
>
> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I typed
> "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search engines. (That
> last one was a typo, but the engine took it well enough.)
>
> --
> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 13:10:41 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 22:10:41 +0100
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CANAJOb5rmke1xhBM1iBE2DZLH_DiAvS52Bc2s-TuKQcRiVUuAA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUL9TP5nkFj5VGZdLsD0_UiANHdH5nb-FXePMAQgFiX3w@mail.gmail.com>

the state is left to its own devices to do whatever the fuck it wants
because the people are morons is the point ... freedom is over rated ... it
like the word candy to children ... i prefer structures of community
agreements and i can clearly state as an anarchist, that that kind of
structure has nothing to do with the state

plus the state has long been extra judicial so...

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
> > (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
> > sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
> > you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
> > perfect plan...
>
>         You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
>         'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
>         examples of statism.
>
>
>         "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
> want"
>
>         Yeah, it's called freedom.
>
>
>
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
> > > > for
> > > child porn
> > >
> > > If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
> > > correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
> > > to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
> > > not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
> > > know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
> > > typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
> > > engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
> > > enough.)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan  2 04:40:18 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:40:18 -0700
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
 <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>

On 01/02/2015 01:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of libertarianism.
> I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched
> hardware, thx.

No, it's the "children should be free to decide when they're ready to
have sex, in consultation with their parents and/or guardians" brand of
libertarianism. In my experience, young men fuck literally anything that
let's them, while young women have far better sense. But maybe that
reflects my patriarchic childhood.

> On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
>> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
>>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
>>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
>>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
>>> perfect plan...
>>
>>     You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
>>     'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
>>     examples of statism.
>>
>>     
>>     "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
>> want"
>>
>>     Yeah, it's called freedom.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
>>>>> for
>>>> child porn
>>>>
>>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
>>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
>>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
>>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
>>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
>>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
>>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
>>>> enough.)
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Jan  2 00:32:16 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 08:32:16 +0000
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>

Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of libertarianism. 
I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched 
hardware, thx.

On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
>> perfect plan...
>
> 	You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
> 	'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
> 	examples of statism.
>
> 	
> 	"you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
> want"
>
> 	Yeah, it's called freedom.
>
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
>>>> for
>>> child porn
>>>
>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
>>> enough.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 11:47:43 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 16:47:43 -0300
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
 <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54a6f54e.4b318c0a.79a1.ffff96e2@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 08:32:16 +0000
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of
> libertarianism. I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when
> I switched hardware, thx.


	So Cathal was even more of a retard than I
	originally thought. 

	Then again Cathal likes to argue against online markets for
	drugs in a cypherpunk mailing list, so I shouldn't be surprised.







> 
> On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
> > On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
> > Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
> >> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
> >> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
> >> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
> >> perfect plan...
> >
> > 	You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
> > 	'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
> > 	examples of statism.
> >
> > 	
> > 	"you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck
> > you want"
> >
> > 	Yeah, it's called freedom.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong
> >> <demonfighter at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet
> >>> <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
> >>>> for
> >>> child porn
> >>>
> >>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the
> >>> findings correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web
> >>> searches related to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose,
> >>> though I'm certainly not taking it at face value. If I wanted to
> >>> buy drugs, I already know the marketplaces to go to and don't
> >>> need to search for them.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
> >>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
> >>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
> >>> enough.)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 14:50:10 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 17:50:10 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] New Encryption Standard of the Russian Federation
 GOST Grasshopper
In-Reply-To: <54A6E5F2.9090506@iang.org>
References: <CAC_yZCqL8XJoNeOGLSUwbKFeM7xxMqbPnooVg91bivBuT028tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A6E5F2.9090506@iang.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_diBRpbe=tim=9DxZz2xQV1FpmpkaSjZLJbEKcKHd9bQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM, ianG <iang at iang.org> wrote:
> On 2/01/2015 11:37 am, Eric Filiol wrote:
>> The Russian Federation has recently published (in Russian only) the
>> tchnical description of its new Encryption Standard.
>> I have translated the document into English and implemented this
>> algorithm in C (under GPLv3).
>> http://cvo-lab.blogspot.fr/2015/01/the-new-gost-standard-from-russian.html
>
> *Interesting* and it would be very interesting to hear what the real
> cryptographers think of the Russian cryptographer's invention!  Good work!

So there are no real Russian cryptos? Umm.

> fair and open competition) did the net voluntarily swing to AES.

The competition was part of the swing, so was govt's saying
AES(256) was good for TOP SECRET (not that they use it over their
own suites), so was it's speed/hardware/simplicity.

> What do people say?  Should GOST be supported in SSL? Is there any merit in
> the "national government mandates" argument?

There are govt laws for what the govt itself will only use.
 (Are you going to not sell to and profit from that govt?)
There are govt laws for what the populace will only use.
 (Are you going to jail for breaking that ban, or will you bow?)
There are paths between all the laws for what obediant
 users can use.
And rebels will use whatever they want.

If you personally use crap ciphers, that's your own problem.
If you support (absent force of law) crap ciphers, or more
than the best few in each class such that community has no
time to properly analyze them all, that's a community problem.
If you don't resist crap law, crap ciphers, or the spawning of endless
new ciphers of the month just because, that's a community problem.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Jan  2 09:53:38 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 17:53:38 +0000
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVw8XBx4A-AX0DyBn68oAsUUdxhWW4_Sq54_iOLMmK9vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
 <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me> <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVw8XBx4A-AX0DyBn68oAsUUdxhWW4_Sq54_iOLMmK9vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BA9D52F-75CB-479F-8EEB-6198C71D0C05@cathalgarvey.me>

It is of course well understood, these days, that paedophilia is exclusively the domain of white men.

On 2 January 2015 17:37:33 GMT+00:00, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>that is a seriously narrow scope of a side topic - considering we were
>talking specifically about kiddie porn watching ... by old white fat
>men
>basically
>
>On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01/02/2015 01:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> > Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of
>libertarianism.
>> > I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched
>> > hardware, thx.
>>
>> No, it's the "children should be free to decide when they're ready to
>> have sex, in consultation with their parents and/or guardians" brand
>of
>> libertarianism. In my experience, young men fuck literally anything
>that
>> let's them, while young women have far better sense. But maybe that
>> reflects my patriarchic childhood.
>>
>> > On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
>> >> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
>> >>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie
>porn
>> >>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up
>then
>> >>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want
>-
>> >>> perfect plan...
>> >>
>> >>     You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
>> >>     'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
>> >>     examples of statism.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
>> >> want"
>> >>
>> >>     Yeah, it's called freedom.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong
><demonfighter at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet
><carimachet at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>> child porn
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the
>findings
>> >>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches
>related
>> >>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
>> >>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
>> >>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for
>them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up.
>I
>> >>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
>> >>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
>> >>>> enough.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Cari Machet
>NYC 646-436-7795
>carimachet at gmail.com
>AIM carismachet
>Syria +963-099 277 3243
>Amman +962 077 636 9407
>Berlin +49 152 11779219
>Reykjavik +354 894 8650
>Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
>7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
>Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
>addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
>the
>intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
>information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
>without
>permission is strictly prohibited.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 15:31:12 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 18:31:12 -0500
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>

After TrueCrypt, many tens of proposed continuations,
and even brand new competing projects appeared, such as:
https://www.gostcrypt.org/

Have any of those many projects gained following, review,
support, opensource license, and ongoing development
work such that they can now be considered the in fact
TrueCrypt successor / new independant solution?




From carimachet at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 09:37:33 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 18:37:33 +0100
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1Y5ONg-0007vK-TO@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAO7N=i2xWrm-c3MUYxV7mRAWtphXQ76GfAJLGTebapKZrCbNwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com> <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
 <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVw8XBx4A-AX0DyBn68oAsUUdxhWW4_Sq54_iOLMmK9vA@mail.gmail.com>

that is a seriously narrow scope of a side topic - considering we were
talking specifically about kiddie porn watching ... by old white fat men
basically

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 01/02/2015 01:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> > Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of libertarianism.
> > I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched
> > hardware, thx.
>
> No, it's the "children should be free to decide when they're ready to
> have sex, in consultation with their parents and/or guardians" brand of
> libertarianism. In my experience, young men fuck literally anything that
> let's them, while young women have far better sense. But maybe that
> reflects my patriarchic childhood.
>
> > On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
> >> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
> >> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
> >>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
> >>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
> >>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
> >>> perfect plan...
> >>
> >>     You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
> >>     'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
> >>     examples of statism.
> >>
> >>
> >>     "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
> >> want"
> >>
> >>     Yeah, it's called freedom.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
> >>>>> for
> >>>> child porn
> >>>>
> >>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
> >>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
> >>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
> >>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
> >>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
> >>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
> >>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
> >>>> enough.)
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Jan  2 10:43:41 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 18:43:41 +0000
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVOg+irbqGYisF3McM3ueUdGEZUMqNKFQi6rN50F0=HxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com>
 <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me> <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVw8XBx4A-AX0DyBn68oAsUUdxhWW4_Sq54_iOLMmK9vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1BA9D52F-75CB-479F-8EEB-6198C71D0C05@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAGRDzQVOg+irbqGYisF3McM3ueUdGEZUMqNKFQi6rN50F0=HxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96FF15D2-2A11-4796-B6C2-2DCB7FF06529@cathalgarvey.me>

...

On 2 January 2015 17:59:48 GMT+00:00, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>hence the liberatarian protectionism of old fat white men doing
>anything
>they fucking want to whoever the fuck they want no matter what ... THEY
>ARE
>WHITE MEN SO... its like a syndicate - WHITE MEN UNITE !!!! KILL
>EVERYONES
>SOUL!!!! BECAUSE LIBERATARIANISM!!!
>
>On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Cathal (Phone)
><cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me
>> wrote:
>
>> It is of course well understood, these days, that paedophilia is
>> exclusively the domain of white men.
>>
>>
>> On 2 January 2015 17:37:33 GMT+00:00, Cari Machet
><carimachet at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> that is a seriously narrow scope of a side topic - considering we
>were
>>> talking specifically about kiddie porn watching ... by old white fat
>men
>>> basically
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2015 01:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>>> > Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of
>libertarianism.
>>>> > I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched
>>>> > hardware, thx.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's the "children should be free to decide when they're ready
>to
>>>> have sex, in consultation with their parents and/or guardians"
>brand of
>>>> libertarianism. In my experience, young men fuck literally anything
>that
>>>> let's them, while young women have far better sense. But maybe that
>>>> reflects my patriarchic childhood.
>>>>
>>>> > On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
>>>> >> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
>>>> >> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
>>>> >>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie
>porn
>>>> >>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up
>then
>>>> >>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
>want -
>>>> >>> perfect plan...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>     You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
>>>> >>     'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
>>>> >>     examples of statism.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>     "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck
>you
>>>> >> want"
>>>> >>
>>>> >>     Yeah, it's called freedom.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <
>>>> demonfighter at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet
><carimachet at gmail.com>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be
>used
>>>> >>>>> for
>>>> >>>> child porn
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the
>findings
>>>> >>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches
>related
>>>> >>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm
>certainly
>>>> >>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I
>already
>>>> >>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for
>them.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches
>up. I
>>>> >>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion
>search
>>>> >>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it
>well
>>>> >>>> enough.)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Cari Machet
>NYC 646-436-7795
>carimachet at gmail.com
>AIM carismachet
>Syria +963-099 277 3243
>Amman +962 077 636 9407
>Berlin +49 152 11779219
>Reykjavik +354 894 8650
>Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
>7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
>Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
>addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
>the
>intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
>information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
>without
>permission is strictly prohibited.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 09:59:48 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 18:59:48 +0100
Subject: [cryptography] NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <1BA9D52F-75CB-479F-8EEB-6198C71D0C05@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <E1Y5N0C-0004yU-O8@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <54A0DD86.60805@entersection.org> <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <54A10A7C.20106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E1Y5aCI-0006r7-L6@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti29FuSwuM8qZ3MsuyiPLEV7LJ4Lprx98crR7Ho1umCUfeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQX=ZfNcm91XiBYXpPvmg8_wMGhVFAP22rFkkwC2uXULLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1Y5vg3-0003vO-Hy@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAD2Ti2_zUnS=c1KJeQU-Du9xLKTXoRDfy+09P26s9n+_jstr-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQXM=DTok7YquBXt0=xkR2QxHC+_vkK4cWpp+zhsSBM13Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQV509hShJJ_Yhs5+RqAsdf6OGmdqgsRnM5qvU1G2dFv=g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm1aE0F10QqkOJOhKx8taTpfuS-+NEm=xaohux18t3y94Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWMJP33O4H76EPEJxZ=zbQL2XhWWP0pT24v-y4dPokj9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <54a590c2.11158c0a.71ab.0e75@mx.google.com> <54A65790.5020607@cathalgarvey.me>
 <54A691B2.5070605@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVw8XBx4A-AX0DyBn68oAsUUdxhWW4_Sq54_iOLMmK9vA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1BA9D52F-75CB-479F-8EEB-6198C71D0C05@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVOg+irbqGYisF3McM3ueUdGEZUMqNKFQi6rN50F0=HxA@mail.gmail.com>

hence the liberatarian protectionism of old fat white men doing anything
they fucking want to whoever the fuck they want no matter what ... THEY ARE
WHITE MEN SO... its like a syndicate - WHITE MEN UNITE !!!! KILL EVERYONES
SOUL!!!! BECAUSE LIBERATARIANISM!!!

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Cathal (Phone) <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me
> wrote:

> It is of course well understood, these days, that paedophilia is
> exclusively the domain of white men.
>
>
> On 2 January 2015 17:37:33 GMT+00:00, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> that is a seriously narrow scope of a side topic - considering we were
>> talking specifically about kiddie porn watching ... by old white fat men
>> basically
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/02/2015 01:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>> > Cool, the "we should be free to rape children" brand of libertarianism.
>>> > I'd entirely forgotten to add you to my devnull when I switched
>>> > hardware, thx.
>>>
>>> No, it's the "children should be free to decide when they're ready to
>>> have sex, in consultation with their parents and/or guardians" brand of
>>> libertarianism. In my experience, young men fuck literally anything that
>>> let's them, while young women have far better sense. But maybe that
>>> reflects my patriarchic childhood.
>>>
>>> > On 01/01/15 18:26, Juan wrote:
>>> >> On Thu, 1 Jan 2015 18:45:48 +0100
>>> >> Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> good point - so, the US government is interested in supporting
>>> >>> (through practice) the society doing drugs and watching kiddie porn
>>> >>> sounds accurate to me - keep the populous stupid and fucked up then
>>> >>> you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you want -
>>> >>> perfect plan...
>>> >>
>>> >>     You seem to be missing the poing...Legislation against
>>> >>     'drugs'  and so called 'age of consent' 'laws' are prime
>>> >>     examples of statism.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>     "you are left to your own devices to do whatever the fuck you
>>> >> want"
>>> >>
>>> >>     Yeah, it's called freedom.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Steve Furlong <
>>> demonfighter at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>> also seth it appears that dark web is 80 % estimated to be used
>>> >>>>> for
>>> >>>> child porn
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If I read the report correctly (and the report reported the findings
>>> >>>> correctly), the estimate was that 83% of dark web searches related
>>> >>>> to child porn. That's plausible, I suppose, though I'm certainly
>>> >>>> not taking it at face value. If I wanted to buy drugs, I already
>>> >>>> know the marketplaces to go to and don't need to search for them.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Anyway, I just did my part to keep the kidzor pr0n searches up. I
>>> >>>> typed "lolita", "loli", or "loil" into a handful of onion search
>>> >>>> engines. (That last one was a typo, but the engine took it well
>>> >>>> enough.)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From griffin at cryptolab.net  Fri Jan  2 20:02:17 2015
From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2015 23:02:17 -0500
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - =?UTF-8?Q?status=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <54A754F2.1040208@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A754F2.1040208@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <a202b34519629d6138d5c90961984359@cryptolab.net>

   I hear good things about Zulucrypt, probably because it can also 
manage truecrypt volumes and devices.  I've got truecrypt-encrypted 
drives that I use truecrypt for, so I'm also really curious to see what 
the best solution will be long-term.  (Preferably awesome and usable and 
audited).

~Griffin


On 2015-01-02 21:33, odinn wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> see the thing on cryptsetup discussed in part here:
> 
> http://grugq.tumblr.com/post/60464139008/alternative-truecrypt-implementations
> (this is a older post from just before mid-2014 I think)
> 
> I had suggested cryptsetup actually to a few people.  I still think it
> is a good thing.
> 
> 
> grarpamp:
>> After TrueCrypt, many tens of proposed continuations, and even
>> brand new competing projects appeared, such as:
>> https://www.gostcrypt.org/
>> 
>> Have any of those many projects gained following, review, support,
>> opensource license, and ongoing development work such that they can
>> now be considered the in fact TrueCrypt successor / new independant
>> solution?


-- 
"The apparent safety of modern life is just a shallow skin atop
an ocean of blood, guts and bricked devices."
~Pearce Delphin




From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Fri Jan  2 17:07:59 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 01:07:59 +0000
Subject: [Cryptography] New Encryption Standard of the Russian Federation
 GOST Grasshopper
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_diBRpbe=tim=9DxZz2xQV1FpmpkaSjZLJbEKcKHd9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC_yZCqL8XJoNeOGLSUwbKFeM7xxMqbPnooVg91bivBuT028tw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A6E5F2.9090506@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti2_diBRpbe=tim=9DxZz2xQV1FpmpkaSjZLJbEKcKHd9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54A740EF.7050900@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Five things

1) Please publish suggested guid(es) here in Russian and English for
how people should install and maintain Gnupg - gpg - seems like after
many years that program is not getting the support it needs - so here
is the fundraiser link again for it.  (Look at all the payment methods!)
https://www.wauland.de/en/donation.html#61

Some suggestions are in English here at only the most basic level and
not dealing with any complexities, but I suggest people start talking
about standards for how to reply to lists and forums as well as how to
communicate amongst each other just one on one for example:
https://securityinabox.org/thunderbird_main
http://futureboy.us/pgp.html#GettingStarted
http://www.g-loaded.eu/2010/11/01/change-expiration-date-gpg-key/

2) I know someone here will say "off topic" but there is nothing off
topic about having people address what needs to be addressed, like
hopefully getting more people talking about the possibilities of
learning different and better ways of strong (and hopefully easier to
use) crypto.

2.a) if you don't like seeing it here please start new thread, which
is probably a great idea.  If questions about that, please see prior
item, if that does not address the issue of OT, please see item 3 below.

3) You think this is off topic? see number 2.a above.

4) More back OT:  People will use what they want to use no matter
where they are in the world.  There are Russians using Gnupg, but it
would be not a good idea for me to say who I've observed does so.
There are Russians examining this GOST thing.  Russian Federation /
Waasenaar arrangment (a stupid idea meant to appease people who think
that gov't controls on cryptography actually have meaning or purpose)
- - involves import, export, and use.  Anyway, no matter what country
you are in, do what you want, and take care that you are not harmed in
the process, basically.  And this gets back to my push for Gnupg -
gpg.  Using that to the best of one's ability and hopefully
encouraging others to do so is going to be useful in terms of securing
communications in 2015.

Thank you and excuse the longish post.

- -O

grarpamp:
> On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 1:39 PM, ianG <iang at iang.org> wrote:
>> On 2/01/2015 11:37 am, Eric Filiol wrote:
>>> The Russian Federation has recently published (in Russian only)
>>> the tchnical description of its new Encryption Standard. I have
>>> translated the document into English and implemented this 
>>> algorithm in C (under GPLv3). 
>>> http://cvo-lab.blogspot.fr/2015/01/the-new-gost-standard-from-russian.html
>>
>>
>>> 
*Interesting* and it would be very interesting to hear what the real
>> cryptographers think of the Russian cryptographer's invention!
>> Good work!
> 
> So there are no real Russian cryptos? Umm.
> 
>> fair and open competition) did the net voluntarily swing to AES.
> 
> The competition was part of the swing, so was govt's saying 
> AES(256) was good for TOP SECRET (not that they use it over their 
> own suites), so was it's speed/hardware/simplicity.
> 
>> What do people say?  Should GOST be supported in SSL? Is there
>> any merit in the "national government mandates" argument?
> 
> There are govt laws for what the govt itself will only use. (Are
> you going to not sell to and profit from that govt?) There are govt
> laws for what the populace will only use. (Are you going to jail
> for breaking that ban, or will you bow?) There are paths between
> all the laws for what obediant users can use. And rebels will use
> whatever they want.
> 
> If you personally use crap ciphers, that's your own problem. If you
> support (absent force of law) crap ciphers, or more than the best
> few in each class such that community has no time to properly
> analyze them all, that's a community problem. If you don't resist
> crap law, crap ciphers, or the spawning of endless new ciphers of
> the month just because, that's a community problem.
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Fri Jan  2 18:33:22 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 02:33:22 +0000
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54A754F2.1040208@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

see the thing on cryptsetup discussed in part here:

http://grugq.tumblr.com/post/60464139008/alternative-truecrypt-implementations
(this is a older post from just before mid-2014 I think)

I had suggested cryptsetup actually to a few people.  I still think it
is a good thing.

Some discussion of this in May 2014 led to I think, led to some
question about what to select?

https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/replace_truecrypt/ (this is dated 21
July 2014)

Anyway this seemed nice:
https://code.google.com/p/cryptsetup/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions


But what is in TAILS at the moment so far as the link to the LUKS and
cryptsetup stuff that's being used, it's a little hard to see through
to the links to find that exact code (where, what exactly to look for,
for the average person  / user who just wants to see it). It's
probably something obvious I missed becasuse I'm tired.
If you know exactly what to link to please drop it here.


grarpamp:
> After TrueCrypt, many tens of proposed continuations, and even
> brand new competing projects appeared, such as: 
> https://www.gostcrypt.org/
> 
> Have any of those many projects gained following, review, support,
> opensource license, and ongoing development work such that they can
> now be considered the in fact TrueCrypt successor / new independant
> solution?
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sat Jan  3 02:18:58 2015
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 04:18:58 -0600
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax>

On Fri, 2015-01-02 at 18:31 -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> After TrueCrypt, many tens of proposed continuations,
> and even brand new competing projects appeared, such as:
> https://www.gostcrypt.org/
> 
> Have any of those many projects gained following, review,
> support, opensource license, and ongoing development
> work such that they can now be considered the in fact
> TrueCrypt successor / new independant solution?

The thing that really irks me the most about TrueCrypt being withdrawn
was that it was the only true multi-platform (GNU/Linux and Windows at
least, was there a Mac OS X version?) full-disk encryption software
available under a free software license. Every other full disk
encryption solution out there is either proprietary, only available for
one operating system, or both.

To me, any true successor to TrueCrypt will be available under GPLv3
(not sure I like the idea of someone forking a BSD/MIT licensed clone
and then not sharing the source, aka the "BSD/MIT Tuck And Run"), and
for at least GNU/Linux and Windows (ideally Mac OS X as well). While I
never really needed something like TrueCrypt while it was maintained,
that doesn't mean I won't in the future, and I know there are others who
need TrueCrypt (including multi-platform support).

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 04:42:59 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 04:42:59 -0800
Subject: full year 2014 corpus
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RbFaTZHHmF8_C_znqm3itUzYuyV6L5a3bTy5D_+tpfeg@mail.gmail.com>

> ...
>  "This is a trap, witting and unwitting.
>   Do not use it or use at own risk.
>   Source and this host is out to pwon and phuck you in complicity
>    with global Internet authorities.
>
>   Signed Batshit Cryptome and Host,
>   ^H^H^H^H Dec 2014

it is:
 47G, 63504 files, sig attached.
https://peertech.org/files/fy2014lst.txt

hidden service distribution to begin soon. we'll be collecting and
reporting on performance results obtained. e.g.
https://bugs.torproject.org/8902
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 09:26:17 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 09:26:17 -0800
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbJ+w=kP2_CDjNn-tv=Gq1=VS_Tfg8LL8hTnUvNDGytROw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A754F2.1040208@riseup.net>
 <a202b34519629d6138d5c90961984359@cryptolab.net>
 <CAEm6KbJ+w=kP2_CDjNn-tv=Gq1=VS_Tfg8LL8hTnUvNDGytROw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54A82639.9050104@gmail.com>

> https://<ANYTHING>.codeplex.com/
> Not bad at all.

Microsoft runs CodePlex.com, ...so don't trust any project binaries,
only perhaps the project's sources.

And it'll likely not last long term, so someone will eventually need to
make a snapshot of the sources and put them on another FOSS hosting
site, when Microsoft kills off CodePlex. So starting a mirror would be
useful.





From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 01:40:56 2015
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 11:40:56 +0200
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <a202b34519629d6138d5c90961984359@cryptolab.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A754F2.1040208@riseup.net> <a202b34519629d6138d5c90961984359@cryptolab.net>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbJ+w=kP2_CDjNn-tv=Gq1=VS_Tfg8LL8hTnUvNDGytROw@mail.gmail.com>

https://veracrypt.codeplex.com/
Not bad at all.

https://ciphershed.org/
On 15.12.2014 - pre-Alpha tested strted.
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sat Jan  3 09:23:48 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 17:23:48 +0000
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax>
Message-ID: <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>

Truecrypt itself actually wasn't licensed under an OSI/FSF approved 
license, was it? I recall reading it had some strange clauses in there 
that they never elaborated upon that made it unsuitable for packaging.

What are the critical truecrypt features people actually want, that made 
it special? Trivial symmetric file encryption? That could be hacked 
together pretty simply. Or something more esoteric? Deniable volumes? 
Detachable headers? Keyfiles?

On 03/01/15 10:18, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> On Fri, 2015-01-02 at 18:31 -0500, grarpamp wrote:
>> After TrueCrypt, many tens of proposed continuations,
>> and even brand new competing projects appeared, such as:
>> https://www.gostcrypt.org/
>>
>> Have any of those many projects gained following, review,
>> support, opensource license, and ongoing development
>> work such that they can now be considered the in fact
>> TrueCrypt successor / new independant solution?
>
> The thing that really irks me the most about TrueCrypt being withdrawn
> was that it was the only true multi-platform (GNU/Linux and Windows at
> least, was there a Mac OS X version?) full-disk encryption software
> available under a free software license. Every other full disk
> encryption solution out there is either proprietary, only available for
> one operating system, or both.
>
> To me, any true successor to TrueCrypt will be available under GPLv3
> (not sure I like the idea of someone forking a BSD/MIT licensed clone
> and then not sharing the source, aka the "BSD/MIT Tuck And Run"), and
> for at least GNU/Linux and Windows (ideally Mac OS X as well). While I
> never really needed something like TrueCrypt while it was maintained,
> that doesn't mean I won't in the future, and I know there are others who
> need TrueCrypt (including multi-platform support).
>




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 17:37:35 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 20:37:35 -0500
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax> <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Cathal Garvey
<cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> What are the critical truecrypt features people actually want, that made it
> special?

Windows + third party + opensource + gui + full disk encryption.
I doubt its volumes were portable like ZFS. You could Windows
mount iSCSI/SMB/NFS from a VM of FreeBSD+GELI+ZFS.

Please stop top posting.


> On 03/01/15 10:18, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>> To me, any true successor to TrueCrypt will be available under GPLv3
>> (not sure I like the idea of someone forking a BSD/MIT licensed clone
>> and then not sharing the source, aka the "BSD/MIT Tuck And Run")

This is a bogus argument. If you don't like that someone has copied it,
closed it, and gone off and done their own thing with it... make your
own copy and continue open development. BSD is about honoring
freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat under threat
of suit. World of difference there. Make no mistake, the more freedom
a license gives YOU, the more free it is. What you do with the freedoms
you are given is up to you... if you choose to jerk people around, no one
will care, they'll just ignore and route around you.
Though not as free as BSD, take similar CDDL ZFS example... Sun
opened it, FreeBSD ported it, Oracle closed it, open and free people
ignored Oracle and eventually congregated at open-zfs.org. Both Oracle
and open-zfs won. If it were GPL only open-zfs would have. That's not
very free.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 17:49:09 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 20:49:09 -0500
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax> <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2935VLOy3T1jQs9qLzw0BzqubyKdKNr-svyWG0d9U60ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:37 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Cathal Garvey
>> What are the critical truecrypt features people actually want, that made it
>> special?
>
> Windows + third party + opensource + gui + full disk encryption.

That being the minimal basics on that platform.

> Trivial symmetric file encryption? ... Deniable volumes? Detachable headers? Keyfiles?

Icing in conjunction with basic above.

Maybe it'll be a few more years before a post truecrypt Windows solution
settles out and is widely adopted and recommended.




From cyberkiller8 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 01:13:23 2015
From: cyberkiller8 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?xYF1a2FzeiAnQ3liZXIgS2lsbGVyJyBLb3JwYWxza2k=?=)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:13:23 +0100
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2935VLOy3T1jQs9qLzw0BzqubyKdKNr-svyWG0d9U60ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax> <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2935VLOy3T1jQs9qLzw0BzqubyKdKNr-svyWG0d9U60ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54A90433.3040606@gmail.com>

W dniu 04.01.2015 o 02:49, grarpamp pisze:
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 8:37 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Cathal Garvey
>>> What are the critical truecrypt features people actually want, that made it
>>> special?
>>
>> Windows + third party + opensource + gui + full disk encryption.
> 
> That being the minimal basics on that platform.
> 
>> Trivial symmetric file encryption? ... Deniable volumes? Detachable headers? Keyfiles?
> 
> Icing in conjunction with basic above.
> 

I'd say the killer feature was that it was trustworthy and it had an
easy way of backing up the volume header with the key and password. Use
case: in a company an employee forgets their password or something
messes up the volume header, comes to the IT dept for help and they can
easily restore that.

So basically saying it was pretty disaster-proof, at least for typical
cases (because people never fuc**** make backups, especially the company
vips).

-- 
Łukasz "Cyber Killer" Korpalski

mail: cyberkiller8 at gmail.com
xmpp: cyber_killer at jabster.pl
site: http://website.cybkil.cu.cc
gpgkey: 0x72511999 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net

//When replying to my e-mail, kindly please
//write your message below the quoted text.

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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Jan  4 02:52:55 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 10:52:55 +0000
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax> <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54A91B87.8020603@cathalgarvey.me>

 > Please stop top posting.

When replies are excessive, I will trim them. When a particular snippet 
of quoted text is immediately relevant (as above) I will top-quote. 
However, sorry, but I'll continue emailing as I always have done; if I 
come from a different internet culture to you, and if top-posting is 
anathema to you but not I, that's just a difference we'll have to 
reconcile to stay high-signal and on-topic.

However, in the spirit of 2015, which will consist mostly of code-golf 
and optimism, here's a Python one-liner in the most brutalist sense that 
will solve your problem, at least for the "offending" email to which you 
were replying. It may be broken across lines by my or your email client 
or an ignorant intermediary; filter newlines to resolve. Sorry it's so 
verbose, inlining those imports might help, but by now I'm bored.

(lambda 
P=__import__('email',fromlist=['parser']).parser.Parser(),A=__import__('sys').argv,Re=__import__('re'):(lambda 
E=P.parse(open(A[1])),B=P.parse(open(A[1])).get_payload(),R=Re.compile('On.+?wrote:(?=\n>[^>])'),O=open(A[2],'w'):(E.is_multipart()and 
str(E))or(O.write('\n'.join([': '.join(i)for i in 
E.items()]+['']+[R.search(B).group()if R.search(B)else ""]+[L for L in 
B.splitlines()if Re.match('>[^>]',L)]+['']+[L for L in 
B.splitlines()if(not L)or(not Re.match('(>|On.+?wrote:)',L))])+"\n")))())()


On 04/01/15 01:37, grarpamp wrote:
> Windows + third party + opensource + gui + full disk encryption.
> I doubt its volumes were portable like ZFS. You could Windows
> mount iSCSI/SMB/NFS from a VM of FreeBSD+GELI+ZFS.
>
> Please stop top posting.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan  4 03:30:52 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 12:30:52 +0100
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <54A82639.9050104@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbJ+w=kP2_CDjNn-tv=Gq1=VS_Tfg8LL8hTnUvNDGytROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A82639.9050104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9628759.BC7S4tvaQR@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 3 stycznia 2015 09:26:17 Blibbet pisze:
> > https://<ANYTHING>.codeplex.com/
> > Not bad at all.
> 
> Microsoft runs CodePlex.com, ...so don't trust any project binaries,
> only perhaps the project's sources.
> 
> And it'll likely not last long term, so someone will eventually need to
> make a snapshot of the sources and put them on another FOSS hosting
> site, when Microsoft kills off CodePlex. So starting a mirror would be
> useful.

Also, take note of licensing there, Microsot pushes the Ms-PL hard for 
CodePlex projects:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29

Guess what? Ms-PL is not compatible with GPL. Of course.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan  4 04:00:37 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 13:00:37 +0100
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL (was: Re: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?)
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 3 stycznia 2015 20:37:35 grarpamp pisze:
> > On 03/01/15 10:18, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
> >> To me, any true successor to TrueCrypt will be available under GPLv3
> >> (not sure I like the idea of someone forking a BSD/MIT licensed clone
> >> and then not sharing the source, aka the "BSD/MIT Tuck And Run")
> 
> This is a bogus argument. If you don't like that someone has copied it,
> closed it, and gone off and done their own thing with it... make your
> own copy and continue open development. BSD is about honoring
> freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat under threat
> of suit. World of difference there. Make no mistake, the more freedom
> a license gives YOU, the more free it is. What you do with the freedoms
> you are given is up to you... if you choose to jerk people around, no one
> will care, they'll just ignore and route around you.

The good old BSD vs. GPL, eh?

The problem with this simplified view is that there are a number of good 
reasons for copyleft clauses, and many of them were verified during 
Heartbleed, for instance.

Apparently Facebook used a modified OpenSSL version that was accidentally not 
vulnerable. Had OpenSSL been licensed under a copyleft license, maybe we 
wouldn't have Heartbleed at all.

Another reason is a bit broader. In the digital world selling *products* 
(think: Windows licenses) simply does not work -- the basic operation here is 
*copying*, trying to make copying hard is not really that smart, is it. We all 
know how well DRM schemes work, right?

The answer here is to move towards selling *services* -- something that is not 
easily copy-able. Services like support, deployment, etc. But I guess we all 
know that already, don't we?

So why exactly does anybody here feel the need to retain the right to close 
their (or anybody else's, for that matter) software? That doesn't seem like 
it's required for selling services based on a given software, moreover -- 
getting it out on a strong copyleft license (like GPLv3 or AGPL) makes it 
*harder* for large corporations to close that work and out-sell it, and at the 
same time makes it easier to get all the patches/fixes/etc other people made 
in particular software.

I see huge practical and economical benefits from using copyleft licenses, and 
the only argument *against* them is -- as far as I can see -- the "MUH 
FREEDUMS" aka "I might want to close-off some of my (or somebody else's) 
work".

I actually feel copyleft licenses give me *more* freedom: I am at least sure 
nobody can close-off any version of a given (including: mine) program from me.



I have no problem with people advocating BSD/MIT-style licenses as long as we 
can have a civil discussion about it.

This:
> BSD is about honoring freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat
> under threat of suit. 

...is not exactly what I am talking about here.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 03:54:19 2015
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 13:54:19 +0200
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <9628759.BC7S4tvaQR@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbJ+w=kP2_CDjNn-tv=Gq1=VS_Tfg8LL8hTnUvNDGytROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A82639.9050104@gmail.com> <9628759.BC7S4tvaQR@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbLO4TvrqMDAQitKwhsFnAOQg3h7o=SvOUtDDrpbOMjzfw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Microsoft runs CodePlex.com, ...so don't trust any project binaries,
> only perhaps the project's sources.
>
> Also, take note of licensing there.
> Guess what? Ms-PL is not compatible with GPL. Of course.
>

Oh, didnt pay attention to that one.
Thank you, rysiek.

So lets watch the CipherShed team (https://ciphershed.org/)
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Jan  4 07:29:01 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 17:29:01 +0200
Subject: John Gilmore: Cryptography list is censoring my emails
In-Reply-To: <E1Y6I8p-0004za-UN@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1Y6I8p-0004za-UN@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150104152901.GC2498@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 07:16:04AM -0500, John Young wrote:
> http://cryptome.org/2014/12/gilmore-crypto-censored.htm

Didn't follow all details, but the same happened to me on Fyodor's
full disclosure last time I checked several? months ago.

If you ask me, admins like these deserve to lose their backup (if any)
say due to cosmic rays.

-- 
cheers




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 17:02:12 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2015 20:02:12 -0500
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL (was: Re: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt,
 *Crypt - status?)
In-Reply-To: <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 7:00 AM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Apparently Facebook used a modified OpenSSL version that was accidentally not
> vulnerable. Had OpenSSL been licensed under a copyleft license, maybe we
> wouldn't have Heartbleed at all.

No. GPL does not require redistribution of mods used privately,
only if redistribution occurs are such mods required to be
redistributed.  Facebook chose not to redistribute, therefore GPL
would have made no difference because it would not trigger.

> makes it easier to get all the patches/fixes/etc other people made

No, not unless redistribution triggers. All these giant
companies modifying GPL code to their internal purposes,
not so many @bigcorp.com's present on the mailing lists.

> In the digital world selling *products* (think: Windows licenses)
> simply does not work

Yeah, apparently not...
https://www.google.com/finance/related?q=MSFT
https://www.google.com/finance/related?q=FOX

Restrictions on piracy are what does not work.
Neither GPL or any other license apply in that realm.

> The answer here is to move towards selling *services*

No, people are free to choose their careers.

> [GPL] makes it *harder* for large corporations to close that work
> and out-sell it

Both GPL and BSD can dual license and make millions as their own
corporations.

> So why exactly does anybody here feel the need to retain the right to close
> their [own software]

People are free to choose that for their own software.  It's "all
rights reserved", an inalienable moral right.  Berne says so...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/06/msg00252.html

> (or [close] anybody else's, for that matter) software?

No, that is not what happens with BSD. You cannot close the authors
own rights, or replace their license with your own, it's "all rights
reserved". You can only close your copy of the BSD work the author
gave you.

http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2009/2/12/are-you-sure-you-want-to-use-gpl/

Tomorrow, Linus/Stallman could, via Berne, slap a Microsoft style
license on all their own work contributions they ever subsequently
released to Linux/GNU under the GPL and seed their own companies
with it and be under no obligation to ever let you see it or any
future mods they make to it. You, having already received an
earlier GPL copy, can keep on with that.


"copyleft" GPL is, in fact, a restriction of freedom.
"permissive" BSD is, in fact, a granting of freedom.
There can be no argument there.

NetBSD says...
"We don't think it's right to require people who add to our work
and want to distribute the results (for profit or otherwise) to
give away the source to their additions; they made the additions,
and they should be free to do with them as they wish."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permissive_free_software_licence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses
http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html
http://www.netbsd.org/about/redistribution.html#why-berkeley
https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/committers-guide/article.html#pref-license
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Illinois/NCSA_Open_Source_License

The BSD is about freedom. If someone copies BSD work and closes it,
griping happens, yet the BSD community doesn't really care because
they granted and expected that beforehand, and they keep on developing
openly. That honoring and/or supporting of free choice is their ethos.
Turns out, after getting out from under the AT&T issues, and doing
lots of cleanroom work (eg: LLVM/CLANG, adoption of BSD utils over
GPL), and enforcing what work they will accept, they're getting
that returned to them more and more and won't be disappearing anytime
soon...

https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/
http://www.netbsd.org/foundation/

> economical benefits

BSD folks also enjoy making BSD products and working for BSD companies
that GPL folks like to falsely claim "stole" BSD licensed software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_based_on_FreeBSD
https://www.freebsd.org/commercial/commercial.html
http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/products.html
http://www.openbsd.org/products.html

Not being able to sell software because it's been forced open
largely wipes out an entire economic sector.

> I see [...] benefits from [GPL ...]

... so do perhaps communists/communals and say religious believers.
In a way, GPL folks could be seen as a bit afraid, lacking independance
or confidence, so as action in commons, (or even if not seen that
way but instead only on a mission to push and test new social paradigm).
they slap on the GPL to chain others to their belief under threat.
That doesn't seem very free.

> This: ["MUH FREEDUMS" ...]
>> BSD is about honoring freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat
>> under threat of suit.

... is the boiled down distinction between BSD and GPL.
GPL is pushing something on you once you touch it, BSD lets you
choose freely as suits you best, including from among the social
paradigm GPL is pushing.

Laws do not prevent people from doing bad things, neither do
people need licensed to do good things.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Jan  4 13:11:06 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 21:11:06 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54A9AC6A.8040502@cathalgarvey.me>

 > The problem with this simplified view is that there are a number of
 > good reasons for copyleft clauses, and many of them were verified
 > during Heartbleed, for instance.

Earlier, in fact. The phrase "tragedy of the commons" derives from 
nobel-prize-winning research that found that unregulated commons more 
often than not are abused to the point of collapse. It's hard to see how 
this can happen to a source-code commons, but only as far as you see the 
"commons" in source code being the code itself, rather than the free 
labour it represents on the part of well-meaning programmers.

By propping up proprietary shitware with your lovingly crafted code, you 
are undermining not only yourself, but the others out there lovingly 
crafting and then freeing their code. Of course, the shitware doesn't 
develop as quickly as the "real" curated stuff, so we see Linux thriving 
in so many ways technically versus Windows and Mac..but then, the lack 
of protections against theft of the commons is the reason Mac is doing 
so well in the first place. Where'd they get that Kernel again? Hmm.

On 04/01/15 12:00, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia sobota, 3 stycznia 2015 20:37:35 grarpamp pisze:
>>> On 03/01/15 10:18, Shawn K. Quinn wrote:
>>>> To me, any true successor to TrueCrypt will be available under GPLv3
>>>> (not sure I like the idea of someone forking a BSD/MIT licensed clone
>>>> and then not sharing the source, aka the "BSD/MIT Tuck And Run")
>>
>> This is a bogus argument. If you don't like that someone has copied it,
>> closed it, and gone off and done their own thing with it... make your
>> own copy and continue open development. BSD is about honoring
>> freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat under threat
>> of suit. World of difference there. Make no mistake, the more freedom
>> a license gives YOU, the more free it is. What you do with the freedoms
>> you are given is up to you... if you choose to jerk people around, no one
>> will care, they'll just ignore and route around you.
>
> The good old BSD vs. GPL, eh?
>
> The problem with this simplified view is that there are a number of good
> reasons for copyleft clauses, and many of them were verified during
> Heartbleed, for instance.
>
> Apparently Facebook used a modified OpenSSL version that was accidentally not
> vulnerable. Had OpenSSL been licensed under a copyleft license, maybe we
> wouldn't have Heartbleed at all.
>
> Another reason is a bit broader. In the digital world selling *products*
> (think: Windows licenses) simply does not work -- the basic operation here is
> *copying*, trying to make copying hard is not really that smart, is it. We all
> know how well DRM schemes work, right?
>
> The answer here is to move towards selling *services* -- something that is not
> easily copy-able. Services like support, deployment, etc. But I guess we all
> know that already, don't we?
>
> So why exactly does anybody here feel the need to retain the right to close
> their (or anybody else's, for that matter) software? That doesn't seem like
> it's required for selling services based on a given software, moreover --
> getting it out on a strong copyleft license (like GPLv3 or AGPL) makes it
> *harder* for large corporations to close that work and out-sell it, and at the
> same time makes it easier to get all the patches/fixes/etc other people made
> in particular software.
>
> I see huge practical and economical benefits from using copyleft licenses, and
> the only argument *against* them is -- as far as I can see -- the "MUH
> FREEDUMS" aka "I might want to close-off some of my (or somebody else's)
> work".
>
> I actually feel copyleft licenses give me *more* freedom: I am at least sure
> nobody can close-off any version of a given (including: mine) program from me.
>
>
>
> I have no problem with people advocating BSD/MIT-style licenses as long as we
> can have a civil discussion about it.
>
> This:
>> BSD is about honoring freedom, not about ramming freedom down your throat
>> under threat of suit.
>
> ...is not exactly what I am talking about here.
>




From rob at robmyers.org  Sun Jan  4 21:35:33 2015
From: rob at robmyers.org (Rob Myers)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2015 21:35:33 -0800
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>

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On 04/01/15 05:02 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> "copyleft" GPL is, in fact, a restriction of freedom. "permissive"
> BSD is, in fact, a granting of freedom. There can be no argument
> there.

There can.

Both restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts.

The GPL ensures that you are free to use the software even if you
receive it from a third party.

BSD doesn't do that.

Therefore BSD "grants" less freedom than the GPL.

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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Sun Jan  4 16:23:22 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 00:23:22 +0000
Subject: John Gilmore: Cryptography list is censoring my emails
In-Reply-To: <20150104152901.GC2498@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <E1Y6I8p-0004za-UN@elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150104152901.GC2498@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54A9D97A.9000900@riseup.net>

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It's unclear to me what exactly is causing said censorship lately.

But I've seen some unusual amount of what (in my eyes) is censorship
occur across totally different lists and forums over the past few
weeks.  It's hard to say "oh that occured here, here and here!"
because your thought may be way different than mine on where that
actually occurred, so I'll just shut up on that threshold piece. (IMHO
it's when someone keeps your content from appearing or just disappears
something you've posted, in a very simplistic overview, of the list
question) However...  In each case the common thread which seemed to
actually result in censorship being initiated (wherever you might
think it was), was someone posting something (or trying to express
something) relating to crypto, identity, or anonymity related.  No
surprise there.  It also seemed to occur in the last few weeks of this
year, or more recently which was kind of odd.  I disagree with anyone
who might propose the whole "lizard theory" of censorship, as I think
that any list or forum censorship (where it does occur) has nothing
(or almost zero) to do with any lizard antics and much more to do with
underlying "earth core displacement" issues that touch on major
differences both within crypto communities themselves and also within
(probably overly) curious members of investigatory / LEO communities.

Finally, it has not escaped my attention that the recent attacks on
Tor or portions of the Tor network, could have been enough to broaden
block lists (whether this block list / spam effect bit would be
intentional or not) which would result in delivery of  information to
- - http://www.sorbs.net/ and  http://barracudacentral.org/ (see
http://cryptome.org/2014/12/gilmore-crypto-censored.htm) - where sorbs
and barracudacentral for example might then become recipients
(inexpensively and quickly) of even larger amounts of IP addresses
than before, which could be in certain situations shown as spam
addresses, at least during the time of the brief and limited attacks
on Tor late last year.  See for example:
http://barracudacentral.org/rbl/how-to-use and look towards bottom of
page thing.  This might have briefly caused some (Tor) users, for
example, to have had limited accessibility to some sites, in some
circumstances - even if unintentional.  I am not going to go on some
long ass rantarola on how this could or could not happen. It hurts my
back to be sitting here typing so I'll slow down and stop real soon.
Tear me to shreds on this idea if you wish, but it is entirely
possible that this could have occurred in some parts of the network(s).

As to the actual result of this process in _intentional_ censorship,
wherever and however that actually occurs:  Unacceptable.

I have also noticed that pybitmessage / bitmessage has been having
more lag issues lately esp. when the messages are being sent /
received to / from China.  This is less a problem if sent from a
"free-er" zone (e.g. Macao, Japan... the latter of which is, well...
really not freeish at all) but still... can be issues. Not sure if
anyone here has experienced same things so I've been encouraging
people to be cautious with pybitmessage / bitmessage atm and use gpg
more in 2015.  Best encryption is best thing... I truly hope gnupg -
gpg will get fully funded soon
( hey! see this! includes bitcoin as option for donation to gpg project:
 https://www.wauland.de/en/donation.html#61 )

Then that which is is decentralized is best thing.  This is why I will
keep yammering about why we should be using truly decentralized
solutions such as... not just btc but also things like bcn, hopefully
we will see zerocash in early 2015 sometime, and openbazaar is already
working.  We have models which will work without requiring a state
model, but which don't require that we participate in the same
tiresome and violent struggles time and time again either.  T. May's
thoughts in 1992 seemed crazy to most people who would have read them
at that time.
Now they just sort of seem like a first step in whatever's next.

So.

What's next?



Just kind of rolling this around in my brain, by the way:
[EN] http://en.flossmanuals.net/bypassing-censorship/ch011_get-creative/
[EN/CH]
http://qz.com/131368/how-to-beat-chinas-great-firewall-one-salvaged-weibo-message-at-a-time/
openbazaar.org
abis.io (my microgiving project)
some announcements to come about that soon I hope.
cheers.


Georgi Guninski:
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 07:16:04AM -0500, John Young wrote:
>> http://cryptome.org/2014/12/gilmore-crypto-censored.htm
> 
> Didn't follow all details, but the same happened to me on Fyodor's 
> full disclosure last time I checked several? months ago.
> 
> If you ask me, admins like these deserve to lose their backup (if
> any) say due to cosmic rays.
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan  4 23:59:33 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 02:59:33 -0500
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Rob Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
> Both restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts.

No. Copyright exists automatically in default state of "all rights
reserved". Any "restoration" you may wish or take for yourself
within that is an abuse of the author's rights as you have none. Any
rights to the author's work you may have are granted to you as the
author chooses. Subject to various limited notions...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_safety_valves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing

> The GPL ensures that you are free to use the software even if you
> receive it from a third party.
> BSD doesn't do that.

Yes it does. The author can slap BSD or GPL on it, give it to Alice
who gives it to Bob who gives it Carl who gives it to you which you
then "use". There's no difference between the two there.

> Therefore BSD "grants" less freedom than the GPL.

No it doesn't. This has already been explained. GPL people often
confuse freedom vs force(d open source redistribution), and permissive
vs restrictive. Don't get confused.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_treaties
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_copyright
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-copyright
Yarr!




From jesse at jbcrawford.us  Mon Jan  5 17:28:14 2015
From: jesse at jbcrawford.us (Jesse B. Crawford)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 17:28:14 -0800
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>

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On 2015-01-05 12:29, odinn wrote:
> This led me to ask if maybe there was just a way to release it
> into domain (public domain) without the whole licensing system and 
> multitude of restrictions and competing licensing restrictions 
> (including Unlicense) coming into play, depending on the project / 
> projects being considered.  (Again I think we are twirling in
> circles here)

This isn't unheard of, the main example would be SQLite which is
completely public domain to great success. Although it depends on
jurisdiction, they explain this licensing arrangement as "Anyone is
free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or distribute the
original SQLite code, either in source code form or as a compiled
binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
means," which sounds about as free as it can get to me.

I had a discussion with RMS about this not that long ago. In fact, the
discussion began with the BSD project, which he seems to view
primarily as an attempt to undermine the work of the FSF (an opinion
that he expresses in some of his public talks as well). Anyway, I
think it is apparent from talking to RMS that he feels that it is a
goal of GPL to prevent "user-subjugating" software vendors ever
obtaining any commercial advantage from GPL-licensed code. The theory
of it is a bit like not selling ammunition to KKK members or
something, RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use the tools he
creates.

Of course I don't agree with him in this regard, but that's because I
don't feel that closed-source software is intrinsically evil. From
RMS's perspective, that closed-source software is fundamentally a
violation of the rights of the user, it makes a great deal of sense.

I think that even FSF advocates increasingly don't align fully with
RMS on this issue, but his ideas have certainly influenced the GPL.

jc
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Jan  5 12:29:58 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 20:29:58 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net>

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I read this and I just get more confused. One I feel like this is
topic drift (but don't worry about that, I'm glad for a little drift
here) and two... what about bitcoin which is.... MIT right?  I don't
mean to drift it further... but I feel like this gets to be a circular
thing.  M. Gogulski had an argument (not sure if on this list but
maybe it was on Unsystem) sometime I think early last year in which he
had some arguments I hadn't considered for different types of
unlicensing approaches.  Which again, I just hadn't considered before
he had elaborated on it at length.  In comparison the whole thing I
found at the time a bit befuddling.

This led me to ask if maybe there was just a way to release it into
domain (public domain) without the whole licensing system and
multitude of restrictions and competing licensing restrictions
(including Unlicense) coming into play, depending on the project /
projects being considered.  (Again I think we are twirling in circles
here)

But part of this in the final analysis should be what software
projects have succeeded and really circled the globe (and resisted
various kinds of intrusions/attacks) regardless of what labels we have
slapped on them?

Well, they have been:

Non-corporate, generally non-organizational also
open source
Consider some of the conclusions from both 30c3 and 31c3

I'm repeating the obvious now so I'll shut up

grarpamp:
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Rob Myers <rob at robmyers.org>
> wrote:
>> Both restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts.
> 
> No. Copyright exists automatically in default state of "all rights 
> reserved". Any "restoration" you may wish or take for yourself 
> within that is an abuse of the author's rights as you have none.
> Any rights to the author's work you may have are granted to you as
> the author chooses. Subject to various limited notions... 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_safety_valves 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
> 
>> The GPL ensures that you are free to use the software even if
>> you receive it from a third party. BSD doesn't do that.
> 
> Yes it does. The author can slap BSD or GPL on it, give it to
> Alice who gives it to Bob who gives it Carl who gives it to you
> which you then "use". There's no difference between the two there.
> 
>> Therefore BSD "grants" less freedom than the GPL.
> 
> No it doesn't. This has already been explained. GPL people often 
> confuse freedom vs force(d open source redistribution), and
> permissive vs restrictive. Don't get confused.
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_treaties
>
> 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_copyright
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-copyright Yarr!
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 16:35:20 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 21:35:20 -0300
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54ab2d35.6e608c0a.788a.7e84@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2015 02:59:33 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Rob Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
> > Both restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts.
> 
> No. Copyright exists automatically in default state of "all rights
> reserved".


	No. Copyright is just a state-granted privilege. A part of the
	fake 'intellectual property' collection of 'rights'.


	


> Any "restoration" you may wish or take for yourself
> within that is an abuse of the author's rights as you have none. Any
> rights to the author's work you may have are granted to you as the
> author chooses. Subject to various limited notions...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_safety_valves
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
> 
> > The GPL ensures that you are free to use the software even if you
> > receive it from a third party.
> > BSD doesn't do that.
> 
> Yes it does. The author can slap BSD or GPL on it, give it to Alice
> who gives it to Bob who gives it Carl who gives it to you which you
> then "use". There's no difference between the two there.
> 
> > Therefore BSD "grants" less freedom than the GPL.
> 
> No it doesn't. This has already been explained. GPL people often
> confuse freedom vs force(d open source redistribution), and permissive
> vs restrictive. Don't get confused.
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_treaties
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_copyright
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-copyright
> Yarr!




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Jan  5 13:38:24 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:38:24 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAG2tq=RyZHHe-yUdpuQ0CqM975XGPys1RyMw1=Bss7gvhPsoCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>	<54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>	<CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>	<2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>	<54A9AC6A.8040502@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAG2tq=RyZHHe-yUdpuQ0CqM975XGPys1RyMw1=Bss7gvhPsoCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54AB0450.7040304@cathalgarvey.me>

It's worth pointing out for clarity that I wasn't rabbiting the point 
used by the powerful to enclose commons, where regulation means 
enclosure, but rather referring to enclosure itself as the tragedy.

I will happily read the directed Manifesto, thanks. But I think it's 
also clear that commons are often abused, though the classical abuse 
appears uncommon.. because unregulated commons simply collapse early. 
Those that appear "unregulated" are more often regulated by social 
structures; no less significant than threats of reprisal in the right 
context!

However, online, we lack the means to enforce social censure 
effectively, particularly against large enclosing actors.

On 05/01/15 20:52, Chrrles Paul wrote:
> It might be good to give Peter Linebaugh's "Magna Carta Manifesto" a
> read for some understanding both on how the "tragedy of the commons"
> never actually happened, and how the popular struggle for access to
> the commons is what eventually gave rise to Parliament and
> participatory democracy.
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Cathal Garvey
> <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>
>> Earlier, in fact. The phrase "tragedy of the commons" derives from
>> nobel-prize-winning research that found that unregulated commons more often
>> than not are abused to the point of collapse.




From charles.paul at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 12:52:51 2015
From: charles.paul at gmail.com (Chrrles Paul)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 21:52:51 +0100
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54A9AC6A.8040502@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu> <54A9AC6A.8040502@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAG2tq=RyZHHe-yUdpuQ0CqM975XGPys1RyMw1=Bss7gvhPsoCQ@mail.gmail.com>

It might be good to give Peter Linebaugh's "Magna Carta Manifesto" a
read for some understanding both on how the "tragedy of the commons"
never actually happened, and how the popular struggle for access to
the commons is what eventually gave rise to Parliament and
participatory democracy.

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Cathal Garvey
<cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

> Earlier, in fact. The phrase "tragedy of the commons" derives from
> nobel-prize-winning research that found that unregulated commons more often
> than not are abused to the point of collapse.




From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Jan  5 23:29:05 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 07:29:05 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net> <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>
Message-ID: <54AB8EC1.1090005@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hello Jesse,

Jesse B. Crawford:
> On 2015-01-05 12:29, odinn wrote:
>> This led me to ask if maybe there was just a way to release it 
>> into domain (public domain) without the whole licensing system
>> and multitude of restrictions and competing licensing
>> restrictions (including Unlicense) coming into play, depending on
>> the project / projects being considered.  (Again I think we are
>> twirling in circles here)
> 
> This isn't unheard of, the main example would be SQLite which is 
> completely public domain to great success.

Hmm.

> Although it depends on jurisdiction,

Here, then. Why would it necessarily depend on jurisdiction?  Isn't
the jurisdiction primarily something that really is something that one
imagines and then imposes?  Or is the imagination and imposition
something that occurs simultaneously?  Past, present, future,
"necessarily" chosen perceptions in order to prevent one's mind from
popping before the realization that it is not the spoon that bends, it
is you. :-)  In any event, are our notions of "jurisdiction"
regardless of how they are implemented or put into practice in what we
consider to be "real world," practical and reasonable, or are they
merely part of a mental prison which we routinely impose upon
ourselves?

Too many words, though.

Wrapping up:

The Gateless Gate  (1228)  by Mumon, translated by Nyogen
Koan number 29 out of 49 in this work (published 1228, translated 1934)

Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: "The flag is moving."

The other said: "The wind is moving."

The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: "Not the
wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

    Mumon’s comment: The sixth patriarch said: "The wind is not
moving, the flag is not moving. Mind is moving." What did he mean? If
you understand this intimately, you will see the two monks there
trying to buy iron and gaining gold. The sixth patriarch could not
bear to see those two dull heads, so he made such a bargain.

        Wind, flag, mind moves,
        The same understanding.
        When the mouth opens
        All are wrong.


Then, here.

> they explain this licensing arrangement as "Anyone is free to copy,
> modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or distribute the original
> SQLite code, either in source code form or as a compiled binary,
> for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any means,"
> which sounds about as free as it can get to me.
> 
> I had a discussion with RMS about this not that long ago. In fact,
> the discussion began with the BSD project, which he seems to view 
> primarily as an attempt to undermine the work of the FSF (an
> opinion that he expresses in some of his public talks as well).
> Anyway, I think it is apparent from talking to RMS that he feels
> that it is a goal of GPL to prevent "user-subjugating" software
> vendors ever obtaining any commercial advantage from GPL-licensed
> code. The theory of it is a bit like not selling ammunition to KKK
> members or something, RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use
> the tools he creates.
> 
> Of course I don't agree with him in this regard, but that's because
> I don't feel that closed-source software is intrinsically evil.
> From RMS's perspective, that closed-source software is
> fundamentally a violation of the rights of the user, it makes a
> great deal of sense.
> 
> I think that even FSF advocates increasingly don't align fully
> with RMS on this issue, but his ideas have certainly influenced the
> GPL.
> 
> jc
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Tue Jan  6 00:43:18 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 08:43:18 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net> <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>
Message-ID: <54ABA026.7020100@cathalgarvey.me>

 > RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use the tools he
 > creates.

Well, no; he wants them to use it as much as they like, as long as they 
give back to the commons on which they built their foundations. There's 
nothing at all wrong with asking that.

RMS would likely be insulted at the idea that he would forbid essential 
freedoms to *anyone*, including the companies he hates.

There's an undercurrent in some patches of this discussion, if I may, 
that suggests that openness is orthogonal to commercial success; the 
idea being that GPL is "anti-business" and weaker licenses are 
"pro-business". I'll just throw in "citation needed" with the reminder 
that correlation does not imply causation.

Users (more like "Used") buy Windows all the time even though everyone 
knows it can be had for free. Music lovers continue to pay for music 
even though it's common knowledge that it can be had with less malware 
on torrent sites, or simply cribbed from friends. Same for books, same 
for everything.

Artificial scarcity creates artificial demand, but a natural abundance 
does not diminish natural demand. And if you want to sell open code, it 
had better be GPL, or your competitors will steal all your best ideas 
and leave you with an inferior product. With GPL, you *invite* your 
competitors to improve with you, while you both crib one another's work 
and get better and more usefully distinct over time.

On 06/01/15 01:28, Jesse B. Crawford wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 2015-01-05 12:29, odinn wrote:
>> This led me to ask if maybe there was just a way to release it
>> into domain (public domain) without the whole licensing system and
>> multitude of restrictions and competing licensing restrictions
>> (including Unlicense) coming into play, depending on the project /
>> projects being considered.  (Again I think we are twirling in
>> circles here)
>
> This isn't unheard of, the main example would be SQLite which is
> completely public domain to great success. Although it depends on
> jurisdiction, they explain this licensing arrangement as "Anyone is
> free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or distribute the
> original SQLite code, either in source code form or as a compiled
> binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
> means," which sounds about as free as it can get to me.
>
> I had a discussion with RMS about this not that long ago. In fact, the
> discussion began with the BSD project, which he seems to view
> primarily as an attempt to undermine the work of the FSF (an opinion
> that he expresses in some of his public talks as well). Anyway, I
> think it is apparent from talking to RMS that he feels that it is a
> goal of GPL to prevent "user-subjugating" software vendors ever
> obtaining any commercial advantage from GPL-licensed code. The theory
> of it is a bit like not selling ammunition to KKK members or
> something, RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use the tools he
> creates.
>
> Of course I don't agree with him in this regard, but that's because I
> don't feel that closed-source software is intrinsically evil. From
> RMS's perspective, that closed-source software is fundamentally a
> violation of the rights of the user, it makes a great deal of sense.
>
> I think that even FSF advocates increasingly don't align fully with
> RMS on this issue, but his ideas have certainly influenced the GPL.
>
> jc
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From zen at freedbms.net  Mon Jan  5 16:57:04 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:57:04 +1100
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQDZiWJAMsO4wOQiRSx_pOXh4p8WN-kh37KBrMEhfQbzA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/5/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Rob Myers <rob at robmyers.org> wrote:
>> Both restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts.
>
> No. Copyright exists automatically in default state of "all rights
> reserved".

But that shifts the ground on what Rob was speaking to.

Sure you can say 'in the default state of "all rights reserved"', that
'copyright exists automatically', and we can even go so far as to say
the --current legal regime-- grants 'copyright protection by default',
which in jurisdictions I am aware of, is the case.

BUT, copyright itself, is a legal fiction. THIS (as I read it) is the
foundation on which Rob makes his point. So, we most of us do in fact
live in an artificial statutory regime of various legal fictions, one
of which is called copyright, the right to make copies, and the right
to grant (or restrict, by default or otherwise) others the right to
make "copies".
In THIS regime (default statutory fiction rights, re copying), the BSD
and GPL licenses "restore rights that copyright otherwise restricts" -
Rob's words are precise, correct, and clear.


> Any "restoration" you may wish or take for yourself
> within that is an abuse of the author's rights as you have none.

This is a non-argument, and I'm not sure you're making a point, or
making your point in a way I can understand.
The "restoration" that Rob speaks to is **the author's** choice of
license, the *author*, who by "statutory legal fiction right by
default" is granted exclusive right to make copies of --author's own
work--, chooses, of --his own free will-- to "restore" to recipients
of author's said works, certain rights otherwise restricted by said
statute fiction rights.

Rob's words are clear and simple. Mine are verbose. Grarpamp, am I
understanding your position correctly, or am I missing something (as
in, from my viewpoint, you were missing Rob's point)?


> Any
> rights to the author's work you may have are granted to you as the
> author chooses.

In the regime of legal fiction rights, yes...


> Subject to various limited notions...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_safety_valves
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing
>
>> The GPL ensures that you are free to use the software even if you
>> receive it from a third party.
>> BSD doesn't do that.
>
> Yes it does.

No it does not. GPL ensures that recipients may not -further restrict-
the freedoms 'granted' by the GPL (which is presumably the author's
desire and reason for choosing to license under GPL); BSD only ensures
-first recipient- has "GPL like" freedoms, in addition to the "freedom
to futher distribute under proprietary license", which some of us
consider to be a freedom that ought not be granted, and for those who
consider this way, the GPL is therefore a much better choice - the
point being, if the -first recipient- of BSD licensed software
thereafter distributes under freedom-removing license (proprietary),
said recipients are no longer using free/libre software, but
proprietary software - this is what GPL attempts to handle/ improve
upon, and yes, some people prefer to distribute their software with
the right for recipients to distribute as proprietary ("the freedom to
take away freedom").


> The author can slap BSD or GPL on it, give it to Alice
> who gives it to Bob who gives it Carl who gives it to you which you
> then "use". There's no difference between the two there.

:)  Your liberal viewpoint is technically correct, -for the example
you give-; but as you must well know, Alice or Bob may "remove the BSD
license when they distribute" (or to use your term, "slap on a
proprietary license") to Bob and Carl respectively. Ignoring this
alternative pathway in your argument, does not make that pathway
non-existent.


>> Therefore BSD "grants" less freedom than the GPL.
>
> No it doesn't. This has already been explained. GPL people often
> confuse freedom vs force(d open source redistribution), and permissive
> vs restrictive. Don't get confused.

On this point I agree with you. BSD grants all the freedoms that GPL
does, -as well as- the freedom for the recipient to add restrictions
of any sort when he further distributes. So in that technical sense,
the BSD license provides "more freedom".

GPL proponents (which include myself), consider that the GPL's 'hack'
of the legal fiction rights granted by statute law, is a useful
mechanism to work towards maximising the amount of free/libre software
available in the world, over the long term. It is a valid, and
apparently effective, strategy.

And one I wholeheartedly support :)


I welcome reviews of my new play, Pirates of the Commons:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_treaties
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_copyright


Pirates of the Commons.
=================
A play by the freedom-deprived, of the freedom-deprived,
and for the freedom-deprived.
Arr!

<parrot>
No freedom. No freedom. Arr. Arr.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-copyright
> Yarr!

<the ghost of christmas Apple>
Arrgh me hardies, let us pillage and plunderrr the code of the mighty
ship BSD Commons.
She sits with her sails a flappin' promiscuously in the breeze tharrr!
Arr.

<draws out monocular and views the tarrrget>
Ay lads, she's sittin' vulnerable in them tharr waters of statutory
easy lays and a wealth of booty for us 'n' us alone does she provide.
Arr.

<sound of whips cracking>
Code laddies, code!
No slack till the walled garrrden is done lads!

<parrot>
No freedom. No freedom. Arr. Arr.

END.




From jerry at jerryrw.com  Tue Jan  6 09:31:55 2015
From: jerry at jerryrw.com (Jerry)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:31:55 -0500
Subject: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt, *Crypt - status?
In-Reply-To: <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1420280338.8889.7.camel@klax> <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <F539826A-D160-48FC-B0A7-50625B68C54C@jerryrw.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Jan 3, 2015, at 12:23 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:

> 
> What are the critical truecrypt features people actually want, that made it special? 

For me the features were many but mainly; Near seamless big three multi platform compatibility, TC volumes on thumb drives and in the dropbox open pretty much everywhere.  

While I nver had the need to use them the deniable containers seemed useful for travelers.

The consternation that governments have had with it is a bonus.  If they can break it, they are classifying it high enough to not break it in public.  Would make it seem to be fairly secure.
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0eO5jF4nOA9fjvMo4yKvB79IOXKoxyKDB9g9tBXzBMzmukYGb4OXtWAZo4Unhgfn
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=cPF1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From dwhite at olp.net  Tue Jan  6 11:21:22 2015
From: dwhite at olp.net (Dan White)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 13:21:22 -0600
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150106192121.GC3976@dan.olp.net>

On 01/06/15 19:51 +0200, Georgi Guninski wrote:
>Let me make a rant on BSD vs GPL licenses.
>
>It is well known fact that Micro$oft used *BSD TCP stack in earlier
>versions of their shit. In addition on _old_ versions of windows,
>grepping for "Berkeley" returned the bsd license in userland, likely
>in the shit called "ftp.exe".
>
>I am not a coder, though have released some non-destructive stuff.
>
>If I were a coder, I would have been pissed off if micro$oft
>profited from my codeZ$ (though a lot a of sheeple don't care about
>this).

My googlefu is failing me, but I recall that Microsoft came to some sort of
agreement back in the 90s with the Regents of the University of California,
meaning someone got payed.

>If I were a coder, GPL is assumed to guarantee me that shit like m$
>can't profit from codeZ$.

https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+making+money+from+linux

-- 
Dan White
vi, debian, C, mutt, sysvinit, /usr/local/, su -, and I dress to the right




From john at johnlgrubbs.net  Tue Jan  6 11:29:39 2015
From: john at johnlgrubbs.net (John)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 13:29:39 -0600
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <54ABA026.7020100@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <54A825A4.8010104@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAD2Ti2_MyZytf-d1d7fS+4maUanyxK93hVwiNAgNrmJLcVADMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AA22A5.4060306@robmyers.org>
 <CAD2Ti28M7Udj+LSxSgOcoGWhEhogsGy_6LRnAcPzecW5qfGYSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54AAF446.3050605@riseup.net> <54AB3A2E.5030106@jbcrawford.us>
 <54ABA026.7020100@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <414FAC59-21EC-49DC-8D63-3FB071EE3BE6@johnlgrubbs.net>

Yay! Bikeshed!

/getspopcorn

On January 6, 2015 2:43:18 AM CST, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> > RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use the tools he
> > creates.
>
>Well, no; he wants them to use it as much as they like, as long as they
>
>give back to the commons on which they built their foundations. There's
>
>nothing at all wrong with asking that.
>
>RMS would likely be insulted at the idea that he would forbid essential
>
>freedoms to *anyone*, including the companies he hates.
>
>There's an undercurrent in some patches of this discussion, if I may, 
>that suggests that openness is orthogonal to commercial success; the 
>idea being that GPL is "anti-business" and weaker licenses are 
>"pro-business". I'll just throw in "citation needed" with the reminder 
>that correlation does not imply causation.
>
>Users (more like "Used") buy Windows all the time even though everyone 
>knows it can be had for free. Music lovers continue to pay for music 
>even though it's common knowledge that it can be had with less malware 
>on torrent sites, or simply cribbed from friends. Same for books, same 
>for everything.
>
>Artificial scarcity creates artificial demand, but a natural abundance 
>does not diminish natural demand. And if you want to sell open code, it
>
>had better be GPL, or your competitors will steal all your best ideas 
>and leave you with an inferior product. With GPL, you *invite* your 
>competitors to improve with you, while you both crib one another's work
>
>and get better and more usefully distinct over time.
>
>On 06/01/15 01:28, Jesse B. Crawford wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 2015-01-05 12:29, odinn wrote:
>>> This led me to ask if maybe there was just a way to release it
>>> into domain (public domain) without the whole licensing system and
>>> multitude of restrictions and competing licensing restrictions
>>> (including Unlicense) coming into play, depending on the project /
>>> projects being considered.  (Again I think we are twirling in
>>> circles here)
>>
>> This isn't unheard of, the main example would be SQLite which is
>> completely public domain to great success. Although it depends on
>> jurisdiction, they explain this licensing arrangement as "Anyone is
>> free to copy, modify, publish, use, compile, sell, or distribute the
>> original SQLite code, either in source code form or as a compiled
>> binary, for any purpose, commercial or non-commercial, and by any
>> means," which sounds about as free as it can get to me.
>>
>> I had a discussion with RMS about this not that long ago. In fact,
>the
>> discussion began with the BSD project, which he seems to view
>> primarily as an attempt to undermine the work of the FSF (an opinion
>> that he expresses in some of his public talks as well). Anyway, I
>> think it is apparent from talking to RMS that he feels that it is a
>> goal of GPL to prevent "user-subjugating" software vendors ever
>> obtaining any commercial advantage from GPL-licensed code. The theory
>> of it is a bit like not selling ammunition to KKK members or
>> something, RMS does not want to allow his enemies to use the tools he
>> creates.
>>
>> Of course I don't agree with him in this regard, but that's because I
>> don't feel that closed-source software is intrinsically evil. From
>> RMS's perspective, that closed-source software is fundamentally a
>> violation of the rights of the user, it makes a great deal of sense.
>>
>> I think that even FSF advocates increasingly don't align fully with
>> RMS on this issue, but his ideas have certainly influenced the GPL.
>>
>> jc
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUqzotAAoJEBPrCUVAhb3Bn+kH+gLE/UOT4KPtf41ZKDr8L4UC
>> wl6F2GD6Pph7IFFzctpG4L5X84onFX45785Q3l56fmheIrt/FrBQJRmIkaLj3l0P
>> K7nRtHo0pAxrixTPc9CZ/6wnrVg0jHhayqnnXMKJjL6JqX/AUj9eE3qmG9X5EhmW
>> bHpmsl6tmqAMWGWUktEfRdjBpaAMnTCiOIzrSn3SXpILaPU1plK3XHP/pxlHdhnc
>> ULVZ2GbCNPwCU7LgZOHeCZyaC6yFez2VwsxtFO04vLPh9KCoe7cPO+6G/sO5dLrq
>> Mu06kiSUla08eLLTa6soR3meMGGfbQAQq/IkRCKdzLnWz4bH4n6r+t7AsX26ItQ=
>> =ytXp
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.




From l at odewijk.nl  Tue Jan  6 12:45:16 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:45:16 -0600
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rLykCccGA9JhCV_d=Dz+_SaT4=pp-DEgGJ+tK1EPSEAmg@mail.gmail.com>

2015-01-06 18:51 GMT+01:00 Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>:

> Haskell language shit depending on GCC and claiming they "compile with
> portable
> assembler" don't make sense to me too, fuck Haskelli and its monads,
> sorry.
>

Not really sure how this factors into it. There's more than one Haskell
compiler, you know? Haskell and monads are languages, and do not depend
upon compilation to have meaning. Monads are like, kinda inevitable. You
have them in your code, you just don't know.

As for the rest, GPL when something is everyone's property, BSD when you're
actually just a company pushing a product or just don't care. There's not
much between GPL and BSD. I'd like a structure where you have to pay to get
in, but once you're in it's like GPL (but only with others who are "in"),
instead of every closed source license out there.

Meanwhile we must not depend upon the bullshit copyright system to provide
us with compensation. Distribution is no longer a challenge and no profit
can be extracted from it anymore. Stop it already. Please stop ruining
reality to create artificial scarcity, I want it not.
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From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 15:51:10 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 15:51:10 -0800
Subject: What the hell can be done with this trinity?
In-Reply-To: <E1Y8RCk-0003xh-Lq@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <f6a0cf58-efc4-4135-a6e6-43875506e9c1@email.android.com>
 <E1Y8RCk-0003xh-Lq@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Q6P58N1rEQnmLiixM8A6G4jv9LjNdaFZvv1ajqQFp=ow@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/6/15, Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>Could you email me your past posts on FIPS 140 ...
>
> Uhh, I don't keep records of them, or at least there are mail logs but...


i was awaiting Peter's response to this.  unfortunately (fortunately?)
it did not turn out as exhaustive authoritative reference :P


best regards from 2015,
  most crypto ever end-to-end across the planet!




From cryptography at patrickmylund.com  Tue Jan  6 16:46:20 2015
From: cryptography at patrickmylund.com (Patrick Mylund Nielsen)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 19:46:20 -0500
Subject: TrustLeap: provably-secure, "forever unbreakable" security
In-Reply-To: <20150107000404.c912ec189145511fef0faaf8@enigmabox.net>
References: <20150107000404.c912ec189145511fef0faaf8@enigmabox.net>
Message-ID: <CAEw2jfwRvpJr_6ON-QE-pxn6D3TPsY+bQP5AtLE6mCL8V=gA5g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:04 PM, 42 <42 at enigmabox.net> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> The CEO of TrustLeap contacted me recently to boast about his
> "unbreakable" security, and that 'we' are doing everything wrong and
> "all open source software is backdoored".
>
> Quotes from the website:
>
> > TrustLeap can mathematically prove that it has "unbreakable
> > encryption" against unlimited computing power, forever, and by-design.
>
> > As a result, "modern" cryptography (all the algorithms used today,
> > either standard or custom) is _provably unsafe_.
> http://twd-industries.com/faq.html#tab3
>
> What do you think about that?
>
> There is a challenge: http://twd-industries.com/challenge.html
> > This is a page for real experts in cryptography
> ...so I thought I'll share it with you guys.
>

All that text and I still have no idea what this thing does. The exercise
is pointless: I could give you some plaintext and blob of random garbage
(or just use a one-time pad) and make all the same claims. And the
customers listed on their Customers page are using their Remote Desktop
product, not this.

But all you really need to know is they're only offering $1,000 as a reward
to people who break their
provably-secure-everybody-else-is-an-idiot-yadda-yadda system. Maybe they
should convince themselves that it's secure first.
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From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Jan  6 09:51:02 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 19:51:02 +0200
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
Message-ID: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Let me make a rant on BSD vs GPL licenses.

It is well known fact that Micro$oft used *BSD TCP stack in earlier
versions of their shit. In addition on _old_ versions of windows,
grepping for "Berkeley" returned the bsd license in userland, likely
in the shit called "ftp.exe".

I am not a coder, though have released some non-destructive stuff.

If I were a coder, I would have been pissed off if micro$oft
profited from my codeZ$ (though a lot a of sheeple don't care about
this).

If I were a coder, GPL is assumed to guarantee me that shit like m$
can't profit from codeZ$.

As an aside, appears to me because of GCC (C compliler) BSD exists in
its current form. It it still fun trolling *BSD fanatics "Dudes, you
still using GPL GCC?")).

Haskell language shit depending on GCC and claiming they "compile with portable
assembler" don't make sense to me too, fuck Haskelli and its monads,
sorry.

cheers,
-- 
j




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Tue Jan  6 02:17:38 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 23:17:38 +1300
Subject: What the hell can be done with this trinity?
In-Reply-To: <f6a0cf58-efc4-4135-a6e6-43875506e9c1@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <E1Y8RCk-0003xh-Lq@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>

>Could you email me your past posts on FIPS 140 and the NSA rule? I would like
>to include them in a future post on /r/badBIOS on reddit.com. Thanks.

Uhh, I don't keep records of them, or at least there are mail logs but that's
an awful lot of stuff to cover.  In addition others have commented on it as
well not just me, the best way to find it would be to search the cryptography
list archives for "FIPS 140".

Peter.




From 42 at enigmabox.net  Tue Jan  6 15:04:04 2015
From: 42 at enigmabox.net (42)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 00:04:04 +0100
Subject: TrustLeap: provably-secure, "forever unbreakable" security
Message-ID: <20150107000404.c912ec189145511fef0faaf8@enigmabox.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The CEO of TrustLeap contacted me recently to boast about his
"unbreakable" security, and that 'we' are doing everything wrong and
"all open source software is backdoored".

Quotes from the website:

> TrustLeap can mathematically prove that it has "unbreakable
> encryption" against unlimited computing power, forever, and by-design.

> As a result, "modern" cryptography (all the algorithms used today,
> either standard or custom) is _provably unsafe_.
http://twd-industries.com/faq.html#tab3

What do you think about that?

There is a challenge: http://twd-industries.com/challenge.html
> This is a page for real experts in cryptography
...so I thought I'll share it with you guys.


- -- 
42 <42 at enigmabox.net>

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Kyyxt5DAcslRFZbOJA/6
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 22:57:25 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 01:57:25 -0500
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rLykCccGA9JhCV_d=Dz+_SaT4=pp-DEgGJ+tK1EPSEAmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHWD2rLykCccGA9JhCV_d=Dz+_SaT4=pp-DEgGJ+tK1EPSEAmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_2E0x=sg2gSHvwgqiu6FG2PcuFwr6G8RvY9_oL-9GBUA@mail.gmail.com>

> Georgi write:
> Dudes, you still using GPL GCC?

Actually, no.

https://bitrig.org/10.html
http://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/pkgsrc/clang/
https://wiki.freebsd.org/BuildingFreeBSDWithClang
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/49906/why-is-freebsd-deprecating-gcc-in-favor-of-clang-llvm
http://www.dragonflydigest.com/2014/10/22/14942.html
http://www.dragonflybsd.org/docs/developer/clang/
http://www.thejemreport.com/more-on-openbsds-new-compiler/
http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20091228231142
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=137530560232232&w=2

http://clang.debian.net/
http://llvm.linuxfoundation.org/

https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/


On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
> GPL when something is everyone's property,

Unless you're not "in", then suddenly they get ugly like you
broke their communal bong hit or something. They used to cry
if you didn't pass the code around, now they sic their lawyers
on you. That's not very free.

> BSD when you ... just don't care.

Exactly, everyone is in, do whatever you want. And it's almost
as unlimited as you can get under today's mandatory law for
those who say copyright is fiction. These days BSD says
basically two things:
1) Do what you want.
2) Author disclaims liability.

It's hard to be more free than that under current law, yet...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 16:32:33 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 16:32:33 -0800
Subject: full year 2014 corpus - better concurrent continue
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RxPBnxEVqBEeyzM54wtiYjGhF9RJGiikNk4UkNZPgGgw@mail.gmail.com>

"why this format?"
 - it is lowest common denominator, in a sense. the rest explained later...

but first, a fix. there is an issue with commands that won't continue
past the PDF and small file bundles.  use fix below to run or more
continuation downloaders:


### The gist of a quick continue download: (many can be run in parallel)
#
# Update torsunget.sh and run dl-fy2014.sh to complete.
#
# assumes a copy of https://peertech.org/files/fy2014lst.txt
# or 84fe6b33e5b6f2478523432514fcb24b844105c4a38635ba97543e9c7152f90e
# in current working directory where ./dl-fy2014.sh is run.
#
# E.g.: curl -x http://127.0.0.1:8778/ -o fy2014lst.txt \
#  http://bigsun36arflx75h.onion/shid/84f/e6b/84fe6b33e5b6f247..7543e9c7152f90e
#
rm -f torsunget.sh >/dev/null 2>&1
curl -x http://127.0.0.1:8778/ -o torsunget.sh \
 http://bigsundaawafn36e.onion/torsunget.sh.txt \
  && chmod +x torsunget.sh
curl -x http://127.0.0.1:8778/ -o dl-fy2014.sh \
 http://bigsundaawafn36e.onion/dl-fy2014.sh.txt \
  && chmod +x dl-fy2014.sh
time ./dl-fy2014.sh




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 20:00:38 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu>
 <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu>
 <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
>         while being a crass statist.

It's a trap!




From skquinn at rushpost.com  Sun Jan 11 23:17:15 2015
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 01:17:15 -0600
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54b2fb93.8ca1e00a.5c2f.46ab@mx.google.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu> <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <25843553.h0z12NAziY@lapuntu> <54b2fb93.8ca1e00a.5c2f.46ab@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1421047035.15245.2.camel@klax>

On Sun, 2015-01-11 at 19:41 -0300, Juan wrote:
> As to who 'owns' it, the
>         question doesn't make much sense because, again, intellectual
>         'property' doesn't really work liky physical property.

More correctly stated: there is really no such thing as "intellectual
property" at all. Copyright, trademark, patent, and whatever else really
have little to nothing in common with each other, and have very little
to nothing in common with property laws.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 21:36:27 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 02:36:27 -0300
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu>
 <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu>
 <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54b35cc9.a9288c0a.4794.ffff8fc6@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
> >         while being a crass statist.
> 
> It's a trap!

	Well if it is trap, it is a poorly designed trap. 


	


	




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 21:39:31 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 02:39:31 -0300
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu>
 <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu>
 <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
> >         while being a crass statist.
> 
> It's a trap!


	Ha. Wait!

	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html

	 When I first read it I missed this line 

	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided this
	notice is preserved. " 
	
	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.






From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 11 22:22:51 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 07:22:51 +0100
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54b2fb93.8ca1e00a.5c2f.46ab@mx.google.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <25843553.h0z12NAziY@lapuntu> <54b2fb93.8ca1e00a.5c2f.46ab@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2063435.zT1b51l2R7@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 11 stycznia 2015 19:41:44 Juan pisze:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:09:41 +0100
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia niedziela, 11 stycznia 2015 18:34:24 Juan pisze:
> > > > I would say: that individuals should have the right to use their
> > > > *tools* however they like, including fixing them, modifying them
> > > > and helping their neighbours by lending them.
> > > 	
> > > 	Which boils down to : this is my stuff - I do with it
> > > 
> > > whatever I want.
> > 
> > So, if I write a program, whose "stuff" is it? Mine? Yours if you're
> > using it? the "boils down to" is a bit simplified, isn't it.
> 
> 	I was referring to physical property - computer hardware in this
> 	case. Again, the argument is that since people own the hardware
> 	they should control it (otherwise they don't really own it).

Hence we agree (and Stallman, too).

> 	If you write a program you are the author. You can keep it
> 	secret but you can't prevent people from copying it/using it
> 	if you somehow make it public. As to who 'owns' it, the
> 	question doesn't make much sense because, again, intellectual
> 	'property' doesn't really work liky physical property.

So again, agreed. :)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Jan 11 21:38:10 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 07:38:10 +0200
Subject: Microsoft patch batch pre-alerts now for paying customers ONLY
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Sje2YS3EqhLYsgGotq0D3zQ1Si+jNTMyE+1bXuhdPoJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150109132018.GA2552@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAJVRA1Sje2YS3EqhLYsgGotq0D3zQ1Si+jNTMyE+1bXuhdPoJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150112053810.GB2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 03:09:08PM -0800, coderman wrote:
> On 1/9/15, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/09/ms_restricts_security_pre_alerts/
> >
> > Microsoft is facing fierce criticism over its decision to
> > make pre-notification of upcoming patches available only to
> > paid subscribers.
> 
> 
> can you pay extra for priority rank in the notification queue?

Won't be surprised if at least part of this leaks on torrents
and the like.

Though not sure about leaking SYSTEM preauth.




From gfoster at entersection.org  Mon Jan 12 06:26:22 2015
From: gfoster at entersection.org (Gregory Foster)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 08:26:22 -0600
Subject: Ronen Horowitz on "needles in the haystack" in Israel
Message-ID: <54B3D98E.1090607@entersection.org>

Israel Defense (Jan 3) - '"Quite a few Terrorists lost their lives owing
to Big Data"':
http://www.israeldefense.com/?CategoryID=484&ArticleID=3288

> An exclusive interview granted to Israel Defense by Ronen Horowitz, the Head of the Information Technology Division of [Israel Security Agency], provides a rare glimpse (at least to the extent that may be revealed) at one of the least familiar aspects of counterintelligence work: advanced information technology methods enabling the mining of significant bits of intelligence from the infinite ocean of information that flows in the present era through countless cellular telephones, computers, wireless communication channels, WhatsApp messages and even encrypted messages exchanged through social networks.
>
> This is Horowitz's first-ever public interview. He completed his term in office in October 2014. So far, his activity has been taking place only behind the shadows of the national defense system. Even his name was a secret. Horowitz was awarded several prizes during his career, including the Israel Security Prize. Following his retirement he has taken up a position in the private sector as head of technologies at the credit company Visa CAL.

gf

-- 
Gregory Foster || gfoster at entersection.org
@gregoryfoster <> http://entersection.com/




From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Jan 12 09:07:05 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:07:05 -0700
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu> <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu> <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>

On 01/11/2015 10:39 PM, Juan wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
> grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
>>>         while being a crass statist.
>>
>> It's a trap!
> 
> 
> 	Ha. Wait!
> 
> 	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html

Stallman opines therein:

| Above all, we need a state in order to have democracy, which
| is the system by which the many non-rich [aka beta, weak,
| clueless, stupid, etc] join together to overcome the power
| of the rich [aka alpha, powerful, skilled, smart, etc] and
| thus deny them control over society.

I agree, but only provisionally, and only if the alphas don't control
the state. However, alphas typically do end up controlling the state,
and that's the fatal defect. What's needed long term is conversion of
betas into gammas. With enough gammas, the state will arguably wither
away. But I'll be dead long before then, so I focus on the process.

> 	 When I first read it I missed this line 
> 
> 	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
> 	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided this
> 	notice is preserved. " 
> 	
> 	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.

No, he's just saying that he'll track you down and kick your ass if you
fuck with his shit. There's no state required for that ;)




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 10:12:43 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:12:43 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>
 <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-BoJ2Y2VBtKJ9NVc2bmdSkGrrseMNJBJJb1pC1=VBBrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Un Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> escrit Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:05:53:
> I would like to know what is offtopic and what should be avoided
> on this list.

The current official charter on the homepage is:

"The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing
cryptography and its effect on society."

> Appears to me wide variety of topics are discussed.

That's probably because a wide variety of topics are applicable to
charter.

Understanding and merits of various licenses? Certainly applies to
crypto licensing, society's use of crypto, and surrounding trappings.

History of computing? Surely if you want to understand where crypto
runs and came from.

Traditional message formatting, plain text, English language?
Yes if you want to communicate broadly and effectively, especially
with people who were around well before you, to learn and carry on.

> commercial spam.

Spam is filtered from lists everywhere. People selling and tagging
every post with their own crypto related wares? They are often
technically debunked, look dumb, and end up going home.

> gross nonsense

The decades of cypherpunks list has plenty of moments and characters...
radicals, pros and antis, corporates, govts, citizens, assholes,
frauds, dreamers, tinhatters, philosophers, savants, ALT's,
shills/SP's, notorious actors, and more. All part of its history
and makes it what it is. A few people bitching or leaving is nothing
out of the ordinary in that context, in fact, that's a compliment
to the list. Unless you think Cypherpunk is all about happy
homogenized pasteurized consensus and submission, particularly with
and regarding the enemy... governments, oppressives, monitors,
privacy invaders and whatever else. Ain't no punk in that. Oi!


The magic of unmoderated lists, outside of literal spam, is that
they're usually self moderating and come back around before long.

Of further relevance to your query...
Recent thread "The Muslim Problem".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk#Cypherpunk_mailing_list
http://cryptome.org/cpunks/cpunks-92-98.zip

> Just trying to avoid being banned from unmoderated list ;)

Doubt anyone here has anything to worry about in that regard.

> the way the heavily censored (in theory small moderated)
> Fyodor's full disclosure blocked me at SMTP level.

Forking a similarly strict cypherpunks is not restricted by any
"license" if people want that (maybe the same conformists and
sheeple who complained about al-qaeda.net).

Cypherpunk, Oi!




From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Jan 12 12:35:52 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:35:52 -0700
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <9DA4621F-6086-4936-88A9-069BC1E438DB@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu> <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu> <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com> <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
 <9DA4621F-6086-4936-88A9-069BC1E438DB@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B43028.1070106@riseup.net>

On 01/12/2015 12:47 PM, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> I think it inappropriate to insert your own text in a quoted
> block without making it clear that you're misquoting someone
> deliberately. Whatever your (provably false with well established
> psych/sociological research) notions of personal merit vs. wealth,
> they are not Stallman's: keep them out of the block, or don't
> pretend it's a quote.

My condolences if you were misled. Enclosing insertions in quotes
between square brackets is standard practice, I believe.

I'm not arguing strongly that non-wealth reflects weakness, cluelessness
or stupidity. The game is clearly rigged. And there are many worthy
goals besides money. But I do believe strongly that victimhood is
maladaptive.

> On 12 January 2015 17:07:05 GMT+00:00, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> On 01/11/2015 10:39 PM, Juan wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
>>> grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
>>>>>         while being a crass statist.
>>>>
>>>> It's a trap!
>>>
>>>
>>> 	Ha. Wait!
>>>
>>> 	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html
>>
>> Stallman opines therein:
>>
>> | Above all, we need a state in order to have democracy, which
>> | is the system by which the many non-rich [aka beta, weak,
>> | clueless, stupid, etc] join together to overcome the power
>> | of the rich [aka alpha, powerful, skilled, smart, etc] and
>> | thus deny them control over society.
>>
>> I agree, but only provisionally, and only if the alphas don't control
>> the state. However, alphas typically do end up controlling the state,
>> and that's the fatal defect. What's needed long term is conversion of
>> betas into gammas. With enough gammas, the state will arguably wither
>> away. But I'll be dead long before then, so I focus on the process.
>>
>>> 	 When I first read it I missed this line 
>>>
>>> 	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
>>> 	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided this
>>> 	notice is preserved. " 
>>> 	
>>> 	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.
>>
>> No, he's just saying that he'll track you down and kick your ass if you
>> fuck with his shit. There's no state required for that ;)
> 




From demonfighter at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 10:42:35 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:42:35 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm3TuEhVoqyLwnhm10kxueCEMF2Q5wrE8SC23TPb0x-0QQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:
>
> Though the list is unmoderated, I suspect the dudes in
> charge of the list might take action against flooding with
> gross nonsense ...

Years ago, some people were warning that the NSA and other agencies were
monitoring *every* electronic communication, were running half of the TOR
nodes, had bribed crypto companies to insert weaknesses, and I don't know
what else. Real tin foil hat conspiracy nonsense.

Except it wasn't. Revelations from Snowden and others shows that not only
were the "nonsense" claims correct, they didn't go far enough.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to be very cautious before
calling anything nonsense.


--
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From nathan at squimp.com  Mon Jan 12 04:59:29 2015
From: nathan at squimp.com (Nathan Andrew Fain)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 13:59:29 +0100
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am not authoritative here but I can say how I consume this list.
It's different from any other list I know. Consumption is more similar
to IRC. There is no real structure and many write under pseudonyms. I
don't think you can have a serious discussion of topics that hover
around anonymity without accepting the cruft that comes with anonymous
contributions. Some people use these "qualities" in this environment
and simply masturbate intellectually with. On IRC one develops a way
to find interesting comments in-between this noise. And over time one
develops interesting mental reflexes and intuitions from these space.
This might seem like a description for "how to survive the cypherpunk
mailinglist" but these reflexes, once developed, then apply in very
interesting ways in other areas of society. One example is the
application of anonymous behavior and hierarchies to political
science. That is, the role of non-branded ideology and action in politics.

or to put simply
in some ways the cypherpunks mailing list is 4chan via smtp.

thus far I dont think you would find yourself getting banned. though
some may just add a mute filter for you if you spam.


On 07/01/2015 13:05, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
> 
> I would like to know what is offtopic and what should be avoided on
> this list.
> 
> Looking for an answer from authoritative source, not a subscriber
> of doubtful quality.
> 
> Appears to me wide variety of topics are discussed.
> 
> Though the list is unmoderated, I suspect the dudes in charge of
> the list might take action against flooding with gross nonsense or
> commercial spam.
> 
> Just trying to avoid being banned from unmoderated list ;), the way
> the heavily censored (in theory small moderated) Fyodor's full
> disclosure blocked me at SMTP level.
> 
> Best of luck,
> 
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=nvHy
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From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Jan 12 11:25:46 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:25:46 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm3TuEhVoqyLwnhm10kxueCEMF2Q5wrE8SC23TPb0x-0QQ@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAOFDsm3TuEhVoqyLwnhm10kxueCEMF2Q5wrE8SC23TPb0x-0QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1YAkbH-0007kJ-Rk@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At 01:42 PM 1/12/2015, you wrote:
>Except it wasn't. Revelations from Snowden and others shows that not 
>only were the "nonsense" claims correct, they didn't go far enough.
>
>I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to be very cautious 
>before calling anything nonsense.

Excellent reminder those who claim to know, don't. Or won't tell all 
they know, just enough
to build a reputation of responsibility. This applies to Snowden's 
team of "responsible"
releases of a tiny fraction of the full dump Snowden says he gave to 
the public, then was
hi-jacked in transit, most of it in private storage to enhance its 
value of restricted access.
Meanwhile, replacment spy tools are being developed in order that 
Snowden's gift can
be dimissed as nonsense -- a process well underway: NSA head now 
claims that the
Snowden material was not as damaging to natsec as first alleged. 
Could be psyop to
hide the damage, or indicates new means and methods are coming along just fine. 





From rich at openwatch.net  Mon Jan 12 11:28:26 2015
From: rich at openwatch.net (Rich Jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 14:28:26 -0500
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
Message-ID: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure if anybody else here has been paying attention to the incredibly
weird USCENTCOM social media accounts, but they both just got taken over by
ISIS supporters:

https://twitter.com/CENTCOM
https://www.youtube.com/user/centcom

(both now suspended). Likely connected to the (now also suspended)
@CyberCaliphate.

Now how will CENTCOM selectively release war footage to the public? This
was the only public-facing source of direct footage of the current bombing
campaign I knew about and now it's gone. I guess we're just going to be
kept completely in the dark now if they don't bring the account back online.

R

ps - if anybody has a few spare bucks, I've got an outstanding related FOIA
that needs payment:
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/kill-death-youtube-us-centcom-13572/#files
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 12:04:23 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] open hardware as a defence against state-level
 attacks
In-Reply-To: <54B3A5F7.8020608@iang.org>
References: <54ACE91A.3050808@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti29RxX51Mdzu5ghAij65shKzd_-BoHnvcaD1WNu88ewmPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54B3A5F7.8020608@iang.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29dPJ5==de5H9LYxcr9Tb_b2xyGF2dwy7rgx+Ny5k_XNA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:46 AM, ianG <iang at iang.org> wrote:
>
> mathematics. We’ve also built an open-source processor with security
> features designed to protect both the Tor relay and slow market
> applications. This is achieved by separating those processes from the host
> operating system with hardware-anchored cryptographic isolation. The system
> on chip is based on an OpenSPARC T1 by Sun Microsystems with substantial
> enhancements to the hypervisor and two cryptographic co-processors. That
> will be released in about a month and the designs for the development board
> and the logic of the system on chip will be of course open source.

> On 12/01/2015 05:49 am, grarpamp wrote:
>> Sorry, but unless your own trusted third party observers are following
>> your
>> "open" hardware at every step from design to microcode to lithography
>> fab through to binary exhaustive test vectors... you are subject to
>> potential
>> compromise at any step along the way. Please stop claiming otherwise.

> Seems like you are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Defence in
> depth.  Defence against fierce & persistent attacks is not about defeating
> the enemy totally & utterly but about raising the cost of the easy attacks
> to just above the cost of the next easy attack. Rinse & repeat.

Yes, incremental helps. Yet let me open another related line of thinking...

Where are the open fabs for makers instead of submitting open
designs to closed fabs? It's 2015, crowdfunding, open source,
non-profits, and public monitoring are done.
We're not talking TSMC scale tech here, but a basic backyard shed
capability to print useable, useful, marketable silicon. ie: Print off
some USB RNG's, radios, DACs/ADCs, even 74 series and discretes,
whatever works.
Then with that open initial platform, start taking commercial
production contracts (even private runs) to pay for growing the
open fab. Even including openly replicating yourself. What is the
minimum capital and endowment needed to gear up to put 1k, 100k,
500k, 1M, 100M, 1B gates that someone, including makers, would
buy down on silicon?




From rsw at jfet.org  Mon Jan 12 12:13:21 2015
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:13:21 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <E1YAkbH-0007kJ-Rk@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAOFDsm3TuEhVoqyLwnhm10kxueCEMF2Q5wrE8SC23TPb0x-0QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YAkbH-0007kJ-Rk@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150112201321.GA13669@antiproton.jfet.org>

This list has no moderation other than requiring messages to be from
either a subscriber or a known remailer exit. There's also no policy
on banning people for "misbehaving." The only addresses I remove from
the list are those that become undeliverable.

People on the list are expected to be sufficiently internet-savvy that
they're able to deal with blacklisting on their end. I suppose if a
person decided to DoS the machine running the mailing list I'd do what
I could to mitigate, though that's mostly a game of whack-a-mole and,
for a sufficiently dedicated adversary, not a game I would win.

I've given some thought to an alternative setup, i.e., a new version
of the CDR. At some point I hope to find more time for that project.

-=rsw




From demonfighter at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 12:33:55 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:33:55 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <20150112201321.GA13669@antiproton.jfet.org>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAOFDsm3TuEhVoqyLwnhm10kxueCEMF2Q5wrE8SC23TPb0x-0QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YAkbH-0007kJ-Rk@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150112201321.GA13669@antiproton.jfet.org>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm1CfE5FSVqP_ugEkuKjZhRniGgD2Rny34CVvvUMcsu5LQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Riad S. Wahby <rsw at jfet.org> wrote:
>
> At some point I hope to find more time for that project.

When you find or make a time dilator, let me know. I could use one. Two,
even.

--
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 11:22:35 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 16:22:35 -0300
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu>
 <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu>
 <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com>
 <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54b41e65.8ca1e00a.5c2f.5a28@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:07:05 -0700
Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> > 	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html
> 
> Stallman opines therein:
> 
> | Above all, we need a state in order to have democracy, which
> | is the system by which the many non-rich [aka beta, weak,
> | clueless, stupid, etc] join together to overcome the power
> | of the rich [aka alpha, powerful, skilled, smart, etc] and
> | thus deny them control over society.
> 
> I agree, but only provisionally, and only if the alphas don't control
> the state. However, alphas typically do end up controlling the state,
> and that's the fatal defect. 

	Yep.

	You quoted and refuted (a part of) Stallman's more general
	theory. 

	What first caught my attention though was that somebody who's
	allegedly concerned with freedom, is an advocate of, among other
	things, public education and 'national' 'defense'. 

	Also, all the rest of 'free' socialist programs he favors
	require high levels of taxation. But of course, robbery is
	freedom. 



> What's needed long term is conversion of
> betas into gammas. With enough gammas, the state will arguably wither
> away. But I'll be dead long before then, so I focus on the process.
> 
> > 	 When I first read it I missed this line 
> > 
> > 	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
> > 	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided
> > this notice is preserved. " 
> > 	
> > 	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.
> 
> No, he's just saying that he'll track you down and kick your ass if
> you fuck with his shit. There's no state required for that ;)


	Well, the copyright notice looks like a US government copyright
	notice. But that's not what I was getting at anyway. 

	The thing is, as Rysiek pointed out, Stallman's position
	doesn't seem fully consistent.

	And Mirimir, you've just violated Stallman's copyright! It says
	"verbatim copying" but you added a comment of your own inside
	Stallman's text. Brace yourself!










From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Jan 12 07:20:40 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 17:20:40 +0200
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>
Message-ID: <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Replying to top post with the same.

As I clearly wrote, "not a subscriber of doubtful quality",
so I consider yours borderline spam.

Nothing personal against you (don't know you), but if this
list is of enough importance, it likely has paid whore
subscribers and me definitely doesn't want advice from them.

Cheers,
-- 
georgi


On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 01:59:29PM +0100, Nathan Andrew Fain wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I am not authoritative here but I can say how I consume this list.
> It's different from any other list I know. Consumption is more similar
> to IRC. There is no real structure and many write under pseudonyms. I
> don't think you can have a serious discussion of topics that hover
> around anonymity without accepting the cruft that comes with anonymous
> contributions. Some people use these "qualities" in this environment
> and simply masturbate intellectually with. On IRC one develops a way
> to find interesting comments in-between this noise. And over time one
> develops interesting mental reflexes and intuitions from these space.
> This might seem like a description for "how to survive the cypherpunk
> mailinglist" but these reflexes, once developed, then apply in very
> interesting ways in other areas of society. One example is the
> application of anonymous behavior and hierarchies to political
> science. That is, the role of non-branded ideology and action in politics.
> 
> or to put simply
> in some ways the cypherpunks mailing list is 4chan via smtp.
> 
> thus far I dont think you would find yourself getting banned. though
> some may just add a mute filter for you if you spam.
> 
> 
> On 07/01/2015 13:05, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
> > 
> > I would like to know what is offtopic and what should be avoided on
> > this list.
> > 
> > Looking for an answer from authoritative source, not a subscriber
> > of doubtful quality.
> > 
> > Appears to me wide variety of topics are discussed.
> > 
> > Though the list is unmoderated, I suspect the dudes in charge of
> > the list might take action against flooding with gross nonsense or
> > commercial spam.
> > 
> > Just trying to avoid being banned from unmoderated list ;), the way
> > the heavily censored (in theory small moderated) Fyodor's full
> > disclosure blocked me at SMTP level.
> > 
> > Best of luck,
> > 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlSzxTEACgkQveagdEkPM4CGQQCg9Eufk2DquCj54krPvW/cqnFD
> nxwAoP2zVLYp1cc8Y9AJPvbIF4F4Oc+s
> =nvHy
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Jan 12 11:47:37 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 19:47:37 +0000
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu> <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu> <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com> <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <9DA4621F-6086-4936-88A9-069BC1E438DB@cathalgarvey.me>

I think it inappropriate to insert your own text in a quoted block without making it clear that you're misquoting someone deliberately. Whatever your (provably false with well established psych/sociological research) notions of personal merit vs. wealth, they are not Stallman's: keep them out of the block, or don't pretend it's a quote.

On 12 January 2015 17:07:05 GMT+00:00, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>On 01/11/2015 10:39 PM, Juan wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:00:38 -0500
>> grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>         about serious stuff like constantly invoking freedom
>>>>         while being a crass statist.
>>>
>>> It's a trap!
>> 
>> 
>> 	Ha. Wait!
>> 
>> 	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html
>
>Stallman opines therein:
>
>| Above all, we need a state in order to have democracy, which
>| is the system by which the many non-rich [aka beta, weak,
>| clueless, stupid, etc] join together to overcome the power
>| of the rich [aka alpha, powerful, skilled, smart, etc] and
>| thus deny them control over society.
>
>I agree, but only provisionally, and only if the alphas don't control
>the state. However, alphas typically do end up controlling the state,
>and that's the fatal defect. What's needed long term is conversion of
>betas into gammas. With enough gammas, the state will arguably wither
>away. But I'll be dead long before then, so I focus on the process.
>
>> 	 When I first read it I missed this line 
>> 
>> 	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
>> 	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided this
>> 	notice is preserved. " 
>> 	
>> 	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.
>
>No, he's just saying that he'll track you down and kick your ass if you
>fuck with his shit. There's no state required for that ;)

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From cypherpunks at cheiraminhavirilha.com  Mon Jan 12 12:22:12 2015
From: cypherpunks at cheiraminhavirilha.com (Virilha)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 20:22:12 +0000
Subject: Hohoho, m$ calls google "irresponsible" :))))
In-Reply-To: <20150112135108.GC2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150112202212.Horde.QyocpcGTlgnS9-3j765Kyw1@127.0.0.1>

if a company can not fix an issue in 90 days, they should not be  
writing software.

+1 for google, this 90 days policy also prevents m$ feeding 3-letters  
agencies with 0-days.

--Virilha

----- Message from Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> ---------
    Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 15:51:08 +0200
    From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
Subject: Hohoho, m$ calls google "irresponsible" :))))
      To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/google_microsoft_coordinated_vulnerability_disclosure_policy_battle/
>
> Microsoft's feels Google's acted irresponsibly because it not only
> planned a fix for the problem on January 13th but also asked Google not
> to go public until that day.
> -----
>
> As i wrote on my blog:
> Hohohoh, I am enjoying this :))))
>
> Hope they enter a deadly fight on all fronts :))))
>
> Once upon a time the shits used the same words for me.


----- End message from Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> -----






From rich at openwatch.net  Mon Jan 12 20:29:26 2015
From: rich at openwatch.net (Rich Jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 23:29:26 -0500
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>

Screenies: https://imgur.com/a/8XtnR#0 Honestly, the "i love you isis"
makes me think this is just a kid hanving a laugh..
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From politynews at gmx.com  Mon Jan 12 21:05:03 2015
From: politynews at gmx.com (Polity News)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 00:05:03 -0500
Subject: CISPA 2015 posted online
Message-ID: <54B4A77F.1050204@gmx.com>

A copy of the CISPA 2015 bill has been posted online. Article
http://piratetimes.net/exclusive-a-sneak-peek-at-cispa-2015/

Link to new CISPA bill
http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/01/RUPPER_001_xml-1.pdf




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 00:30:59 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 03:30:59 -0500
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>
 <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29zq66jTZz_6NC_+w+372cKOoz3o0Bj-6ALahKj1a66Uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> Replying to top post with the same.

Is no license to follow nor clear rebuke.

> As I clearly wrote, "not a subscriber of doubtful quality",
> so I consider yours borderline spam.

Cyphunk is welcome here.

> if this
> list is of enough importance, it likely has paid whore
> subscribers and me definitely doesn't want advice from them.

A high class whore occupies the subconscious and controls therein.
Cheap whores just stand out on the corner. Rubber up.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 01:10:28 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 04:10:28 -0500
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>

How, if at all, should cryptography IP be licensed, patented,
and incentivised? (Hardware, software, books, etc.)
How, if at all, to tune such formalities to Cypherpunk Theory?
Are things like HESSLA of relevant basis?




From demonfighter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 05:57:37 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 08:57:37 -0500
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm2HUNSFGb-rzVsKpNj33U17trcbiPXSodzQgUiX-qw45w@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:39 AM, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If it’s encrypted, and I have the key, it’s my property. That’s it.

Unless the NSA has backdoored the algorithm or Google/Apple/Amazon have
their own keys to your cloud storage or the TLAs have tapped the
unencrypted communications channels or ...

-- 
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 05:39:06 2015
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 09:39:06 -0400
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>

If it’s encrypted, and I have the key, it’s my property. That’s it.

Cheers,
RAH





From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Jan 13 00:29:58 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:29:58 +0200
Subject: How come search engines don't crawl the list and I can't find
 'robots.txt'?
In-Reply-To: <20140413135352.GA2487@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20140413135352.GA2487@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150113082958.GA2589@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 04:53:52PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> AFAICT the list archives don't show in search engines
> and in addition don't see /robots.txt.
> 
> How so?

As of now this list appears archived on gmane and is indexed on google:
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.cypherpunks






From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 06:33:11 2015
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:33:11 -0400
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm2HUNSFGb-rzVsKpNj33U17trcbiPXSodzQgUiX-qw45w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm2HUNSFGb-rzVsKpNj33U17trcbiPXSodzQgUiX-qw45w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D0C2244-80A7-4B42-90F3-6DAB298BA35B@gmail.com>


> On Jan 13, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Unless the NSA has backdoored the algorithm or Google/Apple/Amazon have their own keys to your cloud storage or the TLAs have tapped the unencrypted communications channels or ...
> 

Then it’s not encrypted, is it?

Cheers,
RAH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman ;-)




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Tue Jan 13 02:43:17 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 10:43:17 +0000
Subject: Review appreciated: Golang Crypto/Cert system
Message-ID: <54B4F6C5.6000904@cathalgarvey.me>

Hi all,
This is intended for use in a larger project but I felt the need to 
abstract and containerise some of the crypto. It uses ECDSA and NaCl as 
provided in the Golang libraries, and I've tried to join them in as 
sensible a way as possible without making too many assumptions.

Would appreciate some review to make sure I'm not screwing anything up:
https://github.com/cathalgarvey/easykeys

Thanks,
Cathal




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Tue Jan 13 12:20:54 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 12:20:54 -0800
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B57E26.5080506@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 01/13/2015 10:46 AM, Daniel Van Wagenen wrote:
> Does anyone else find it odd that they posted personnel data on
> senior US military officials yet the US Government denies that any
> military networks were compromised?

Not at all.  It is possible (maybe even likely) that whoever wrote the
press release about it was told to omit any mention of the personnel
data in an attempt to downplay it.  People will remember what was
talked about, not what was conveniently not talked about.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"You leave Jack Burton alone!" --Egg Shen, _Big Trouble In Little China_

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5YG2RWGZXfQDb8JVZqFaBfgHWP0PWG7IDHJi8ycl1FXAS0Wgpr7lrflMmw5c5WCm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=ol4q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 05:12:25 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:12:25 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia, including bitcoin.org
Message-ID: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>

So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it (162.159.245.241,
162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com (188.40.102.131 was blocked
country-wide, because Neviansky's court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule
2-978/2014 on 30 September 2014. Text of this judgment is not known,
it's not on their website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish
their judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for
exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to block
Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.


http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)

-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 12:14:05 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:14:05 -0700
Subject: Rant on BSD vs GPL was [Good ol' BSD vs. GPL]
In-Reply-To: <54b41e65.8ca1e00a.5c2f.5a28@mx.google.com>
References: <20150106175102.GA2495@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4707594.I3Idj6CXql@lapuntu> <54b06d42.4380e00a.7a70.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
 <2535522.7yjQvbBdOJ@lapuntu> <54b2ebcb.8641e00a.70b7.13e2@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti29xaRiReXLwFwjk2aRs2XtwW75wmBK2519pgS1eN3xgvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54b35d82.0950e00a.2192.ffff9e33@mx.google.com> <54B3FF39.6070509@riseup.net>
 <54b41e65.8ca1e00a.5c2f.5a28@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <54B57C8D.1080302@riseup.net>

On 01/12/2015 12:22 PM, Juan wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:07:05 -0700
> Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>>> 	https://stallman.org/articles/why-we-need-a-state.html
>>
>> Stallman opines therein:
>>
>> | Above all, we need a state in order to have democracy, which
>> | is the system by which the many non-rich [aka beta, weak,
>> | clueless, stupid, etc] join together to overcome the power
>> | of the rich [aka alpha, powerful, skilled, smart, etc] and
>> | thus deny them control over society.
>>
>> I agree, but only provisionally, and only if the alphas don't control
>> the state. However, alphas typically do end up controlling the state,
>> and that's the fatal defect. 
> 
> 	Yep.
> 
> 	You quoted and refuted (a part of) Stallman's more general
> 	theory. 
> 
> 	What first caught my attention though was that somebody who's
> 	allegedly concerned with freedom, is an advocate of, among other
> 	things, public education and 'national' 'defense'. 
> 
> 	Also, all the rest of 'free' socialist programs he favors
> 	require high levels of taxation. But of course, robbery is
> 	freedom. 

Right, all of that stuff ought to be funded by voluntary contributions,
either from self-interest or compassion and generosity. Robbery is
unprovoked aggression.

>> What's needed long term is conversion of
>> betas into gammas. With enough gammas, the state will arguably wither
>> away. But I'll be dead long before then, so I focus on the process.
>>
>>> 	 When I first read it I missed this line 
>>>
>>> 	"Copyright (c) 2013 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and
>>> 	redistribution of this entire page are permitted provided
>>> this notice is preserved. " 
>>> 	
>>> 	LMAO! unintentional self-parody at its best.
>>
>> No, he's just saying that he'll track you down and kick your ass if
>> you fuck with his shit. There's no state required for that ;)
> 
> 
> 	Well, the copyright notice looks like a US government copyright
> 	notice. But that's not what I was getting at anyway. 

Yes, you're right. He could have used non-state terminology.

> 	The thing is, as Rysiek pointed out, Stallman's position
> 	doesn't seem fully consistent.
> 
> 	And Mirimir, you've just violated Stallman's copyright! It says
> 	"verbatim copying" but you added a comment of your own inside
> 	Stallman's text. Brace yourself!

Not at all. Short quotes in reviews etc are fair use.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 12:21:21 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:21:21 -0700
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-BoJ2Y2VBtKJ9NVc2bmdSkGrrseMNJBJJb1pC1=VBBrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com> <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti2-BoJ2Y2VBtKJ9NVc2bmdSkGrrseMNJBJJb1pC1=VBBrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B57E41.2080509@riseup.net>

On 01/12/2015 11:12 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> Un Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> escrit Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:05:53:
>> I would like to know what is offtopic and what should be avoided
>> on this list.
> 
> The current official charter on the homepage is:
> 
> "The Cypherpunks mailing list is a mailing list for discussing
> cryptography and its effect on society."
> 
>> Appears to me wide variety of topics are discussed.
> 
> That's probably because a wide variety of topics are applicable to
> charter.

<SNIP>

>> gross nonsense
> 
> The decades of cypherpunks list has plenty of moments and characters...
> radicals, pros and antis, corporates, govts, citizens, assholes,
> frauds, dreamers, tinhatters, philosophers, savants, ALT's,
> shills/SP's, notorious actors, and more. All part of its history
> and makes it what it is. A few people bitching or leaving is nothing
> out of the ordinary in that context, in fact, that's a compliment
> to the list. Unless you think Cypherpunk is all about happy
> homogenized pasteurized consensus and submission, particularly with
> and regarding the enemy... governments, oppressives, monitors,
> privacy invaders and whatever else. Ain't no punk in that. Oi!

I recall toto, with great fondness :)

<SNIP>




From dvanwag at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 10:46:37 2015
From: dvanwag at gmail.com (Daniel Van Wagenen)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:46:37 -0500
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone else find it odd that they posted personnel data on senior
US military officials yet the US Government denies that any military
networks were compromised?

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Rich Jones <rich at openwatch.net> wrote:
> Screenies: https://imgur.com/a/8XtnR#0 Honestly, the "i love you isis" makes
> me think this is just a kid hanving a laugh..




From hozer at hozed.org  Tue Jan 13 11:52:32 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:52:32 -0600
Subject: What is offtopic and what should be avoided on this list?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29zq66jTZz_6NC_+w+372cKOoz3o0Bj-6ALahKj1a66Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150107120553.GC2512@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B3C531.7070802@squimp.com>
 <20150112152040.GD2645@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti29zq66jTZz_6NC_+w+372cKOoz3o0Bj-6ALahKj1a66Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150113195232.GA14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 03:30:59AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> > Replying to top post with the same.
> 
> Is no license to follow nor clear rebuke.
> 
> > As I clearly wrote, "not a subscriber of doubtful quality",
> > so I consider yours borderline spam.
> 
> Cyphunk is welcome here.
> 
> > if this
> > list is of enough importance, it likely has paid whore
> > subscribers and me definitely doesn't want advice from them.
> 
> A high class whore occupies the subconscious and controls therein.
> Cheap whores just stand out on the corner. Rubber up.


Such flattery.

	Use the data force luke

and put a rubber on your smtp if you are worried about catching something





From hozer at hozed.org  Tue Jan 13 12:01:41 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 14:01:41 -0600
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
Message-ID: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>

Theory of the day:

1) Naked short bitcoin (not sure how, but I'm sure some bankster did)
2) http://blog.cex.io/news/cex-io-temporarily-suspends-cloud-mining-services/
3) use profits from shorting to hire cex.io 'idled' capacity
4) double-spend on competing exchanges (or against competing investors funds)
5) buy an island or three, or a politician or 5

Plausibility on a scale of 1-5 .. I say 4, what say you all?




From demonfighter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 11:08:27 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 14:08:27 -0500
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm2g6u1EPpcHTSm=CAr81TgYd9oBAHxfqeEQZBu-LPH5CA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Daniel Van Wagenen <dvanwag at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Does anyone else find it odd that they posted personnel data on senior
> US military officials yet the US Government denies that any military
> networks were compromised?

The government spokesman is ignorant or dishonest. What's odd about that?

-- 
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 11:09:26 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 14:09:26 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
If so, what should it look like? Who are its priests? What are its
idols? What happens to alms? For whom is its mission? How does it
go about things and/or serve its people in the famliar (or unfamiliar)
ways of other churches? Is it purely internal or does it have
political or other external elements? Etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Church_of_Kopimism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raelism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_organization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_religious_movements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements




From hozer at hozed.org  Tue Jan 13 12:19:41 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 14:19:41 -0600
Subject: Cryptography Imaginary Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <5807656.bEsV81r7Cy@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>
 <CA29A7FF-57D2-418A-AE2C-BE9AF3C5A512@gmail.com>
 <5807656.bEsV81r7Cy@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150113201941.GC14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 08:31:03PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 15:14:06 Robert Hettinga pisze:
> > > The question is not about encrypted materials, but about encryption
> > > algorithms and tools, as far as I understand.
> > 
> > Patents and copyrights aren’t property. They’re government granted
> > monopolies. They’re no more property than your driver’s license.
> 
> Well, I have posted this link on this list at least several times, but here it 
> goes again:
> http://copyspeak.org/intellectual-property
> 
> tl;dr we're agreed here
> 
> > Property is the application of mind to *matter*, to quote a great Flash
> > animation.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > An idea can not be property. Ever.
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> > So. Again. If it’s *encrypted*, and I have the key, it’s my property. I
> > control the physical bits.
> > Otherwise it’s not my property.
> 
> It is not, actually. If you're going for such a strong definition of property, 
> with which I can agree, than let's stay coherent, shall we? The property of 
> yours is the physical device the bits are saved on. The harddrive, DVD, 
> pendrive, whatever. That's your *property*. The encrypted data is just this: 
> encrypted data.
> 
> Otherwise you would find yourself in an interesting world where applying 
> encryption to data (both of which are not property, right) magically 
> transforms something immaterial and "not-property" into "property".

If I have an image I took of my farm, turn it into digital bits, and put
the DVD in a safe, so nothing can copy it, it's my property.

If encrypt the image, and keep the private key in my safe, so nothing can
copy the original image, it's my property. Now maybe I install some robots
with guns to defend the safe too....

If I slap a creative commons license on the image... well, that's asking
the government (which is a lot like a robot) to hold a gun to anyone's
head who tries to modify the image and pass it off as their 'property'.

Is the last one still my property? I guess that depends on your viewpoint
on the validity of the robots of buearocracy, and if they have their guns
pointed at you or not.

> That's the world the MPAA's/RIAA's/MAFIAA's are trying to create, look no 
> further than the DMCA, under which even the simplest encryption algorithm 
> (say, ROT13) applied to copyrighted material by the rights holder makes it 
> illegal for others to publish the key (in this case, 13), as it becomes the 
> "property" of the encrypting party. Look it up.
> 
> Data, encrypted or not, are not property; however, they can fall under a 
> number of state-granted monopolies, as you have said. Here, I even changed the 
> topic of this e-mail for your convenience.
> 
> And in this vein my previous mail has been written -- as far as I understand, 
> the original question was about how encryption *algorithms* (and *not* 
> encrypted data itself) should be handled from the Imaginary Property Law 
> standpoint (so: patents, copyrights, etc).
> 
> And I have provided an answer from my perspective in said previous mail.
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
> 
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'                  hozer at hozed.org
7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul        grid.coop

      Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
         nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash




From kyboren at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 06:03:12 2015
From: kyboren at riseup.net (Andrew)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:03:12 +0100
Subject: CISPA 2015 posted online
In-Reply-To: <54B4A77F.1050204@gmx.com>
References: <54B4A77F.1050204@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <54B525A0.6080600@riseup.net>

On 01/13/15 06:05, Polity News wrote:
> A copy of the CISPA 2015 bill has been posted online. Article
> http://piratetimes.net/exclusive-a-sneak-peek-at-cispa-2015/
>
> Link to new CISPA bill
> http://piratetimes.net/wp-uploads/news/2015/01/RUPPER_001_xml-1.pdf
>

Thanks for this.

IANAL, and I only quickly perused the draft bill.  However, I'm having 
trouble wrapping my head around what this bill is really *about*.  It 
seems vague, and as far as I can see has no clear purpose.  It smells of 
being written to look like one thing, while providing legal cover for 
something totally different.

I have a lot of questions.  Maybe those with more experience or cynicism 
can answer.

I'll start with the definitions:
 > 9   (2) CYBER THREAT INFORMATION, CYBER
 > 10  THREAT INTELLIGENCE, CYBERSECURITY CRIMES,
 > 11  CYBERSECURITY PROVIDER, CYBERSECURITY PUR-
 > 12  POSE, AND SELF-PROTECTED ENTITY.The terms
 > 13  ‘‘cyber threat information’’, ‘‘cyber threat intel-
 > 14  ligence’’, ‘‘cybersecurity crimes’’, ‘‘cybersecurity pro-
 > 15  vider’’, ‘‘cybersecurity purpose’’, and ‘‘self-protected
 > 16  entity’’ have the meaning given those terms in sec-
 > 17  tion 1104 of the National Security Act of 1947, as
 > 18  added by section 3(a) of this Act.

CYBER THREAT INFORMATION:
 > 13  ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL. The term ‘cyber
 > 14  threat information’ means information directly
 > 15  pertaining to
 > 16  ‘‘(i) a vulnerability of a system or net-
 > 17  work of a government or private entity or
 > 18  utility;
 > 19  ‘‘(ii) a threat to the integrity, con-
 > 20  fidentiality, or availability of a system or
 > 21  network of a government or private entity
 > 22  or utility or any information stored on,
 > 23  processed on, or transiting such a system
 > 24  or network;
 > 1   ‘‘(iii) efforts to deny access to or de-
 > 2   grade, disrupt, or destroy a system or net-
 > 3   work of a government or private entity or
 > 4   utility; or
 > 5   ‘‘(iv) efforts to gain unauthorized ac-
 > 6   cess to a system or network of a govern-
 > 7   ment or private entity or utility, including
 > 8   to gain such unauthorized access for the
 > 9   purpose of exfiltrating information stored
 > 10  on, processed on, or transiting a system or
 > 11  network of a government or private entity
 > 12  or utility.
 > 13  ‘‘(B) EXCLUSION. Such term does not in
 > 14  clude information pertaining to efforts to gain
 > 15  unauthorized access to a system or network of
 > 16  a government or private entity or utility that
 > 17  solely involve violations of consumer terms of
 > 18  service or consumer licensing agreements and
 > 19  do not otherwise constitute unauthorized access.

This appears identical (as far as I can see) to the language used for 
"cybersecurity intelligence", which is the same thing but origination 
from the "intelligence community" (so, NSA).

So, information "directly pertaining to" a vulnerability, a threat to a 
network, DoS attacks, efforts to gain "unauthorized access" (but not to 
be construed as including ToS violations).

What kind of information is "directly pertaining to" these?  Why does 
the bill provide for "anonymization and minimization" of such data?  And 
most of all, what prevented the sharing of such information before? The 
third party doctrine means any entity could share nearly any information 
at hand with the Feds and they could still use it in court.  But this 
talk of excluding ToS violations and "minimizing" this information 
smacks a lot like a concern about criminal matters.

Further, this bill does not appear to give or modify any FedGov 
authority to use its cybersecurity systems on private networks *for the 
protection of those networks*:
 > 14  ‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
 > 15  USE OF CYBERSECURITY SYSTEMS. Nothing in this
 > 16  section shall be construed to provide additional au-
 > 17  thority to, or modify an existing authority of, any
 > 18  entity to use a cybersecurity system owned or con-
 > 19  trolled by the Federal Government on a private-sec-
 > 20  tor system or network to protect such private-sector
 > 21  system or network.

Did I miss something about giving authority to place systems on private 
networks for the protection of FedGov networks?





Also interesting to note that it defines "cybersecurity crime" as 
anything that violates CFAA *or* state law--IMO a very bad idea, as 
legislators in states like Mississippi have even less experience in 
computer security than Federal legislators, and fewer resources to make 
informed decisions--if they even intend to.
CYBERSECURITY CRIME:
 > 4   ‘‘(6) CYBERSECURITY CRIME. The term
 > 5   ‘cybersecurity crime’ means
 > 6   ‘‘(A) a crime under a Federal or State law
 > 7   that involves
 > 8   ‘‘(i) efforts to deny access to or de-
 > 9   grade, disrupt, or destroy a system or net-
 > 10  work;
 > 11  ‘‘(ii) efforts to gain unauthorized ac-
 > 12  cess to a system or network; or
 > 13  ‘‘(iii) efforts to exfiltrate information
 > 14  from a system or network without author-
 > 15  ization; or
 > 16  ‘‘(B) the violation of a provision of Federal
 > 17  law relating to computer crimes, including a
 > 18  violation of any provision of title 18, United
 > 19  States Code, created or amended by the Com-
 > 20  puter Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 (Public
 > 21  Law 99474).



And of course, our corporate overlords are the only ones this applies 
to; individuals cannot avail themselves of the new information sharing 
bonanza.  What's the reason (both claimed and ulterior) for excluding 
individuals?
 > 15  ‘‘(11) PROTECTED ENTITY. The term ‘pro
 > 16  tected entity’ means an entity, other than an indi-
 > 17  vidual, that contracts with a cybersecurity provider
 > 18  for goods or services to be used for cybersecurity
 > 19  purposes.
 > 20  ‘‘(12) SELF-PROTECTED ENTITY. The term
 > 21  ‘self-protected entity’ means an entity, other than an
 > 22  individual, that provides goods or services for
 > 23  cybersecurity purposes to itself.



Maybe I missed something, but the very last page is concerning:
 > 5   Nothing in this Act or the amendments made by this
 > 6   Act shall be construed to provide authority to a depart-
 > 7   ment or agency of the Federal Government to require a
 > 8   cybersecurity provider that has contracted with the Fed-
 > 9   eral Government to provide information services to provide
 > 10  information about cybersecurity incidents that do not pose
 > 11  a threat to the Federal Government’s information.

So: there's no obligation to provide information about incidents that do 
not pose a threat to the FedGov.  Is there a section which *does* 
obligate these corporations to share information about incidents which 
*do* pose a threat to FedGov?!?



Now, about the use of the data....
 > 12  ‘‘(7) LIMITATION ON SURVEILLANCE. Nothing
 > 13  in this section shall be construed to authorize the
 > 14  Department of Defense or the National Security
 > 15  Agency or any other element of the intelligence com-
 > 16  munity to target a United States person for surveil-
 > 17  lance.

This paragraph, as we all know, is completely meaningless, as the 
surveillance machine is untargeted.  If you target everyone rather than 
someone in particular, this "restriction" is totally useless.

Very interesting language here:
 > 19  ‘‘(2) AFFIRMATIVE RESTRICTION.
 > 20  The Federal Government may not affirmatively
 > 21  search cyber threat information shared with the
 > 22  Federal Government under subsection (b) for a pur-
 > 23  pose other than a purpose referred to in paragraph
 > 24  (1).

What is an "affirmative search", and how is it different from "search"? 
  Is this another weasel-term to prohibit "human" searches while 
allowing automated searches?

In any case, the FedGov is allowed to use the information for:
 > 18  ‘‘(c) FEDERAL GOVERNMENT USE OF INFORMA-
 > 19  TION .
 > 20  ‘‘(1) LIMITATION.The Federal Government
 > 21  may use cyber threat information shared with the
 > 22  Federal Government in accordance with subsection
 > 23  (b)
 > 24  ‘‘(A) for cybersecurity purposes;
 > 1   ‘‘(B) for the investigation and prosecution
 > 2   of cybersecurity crimes;
 > 3   ‘‘(C) for the protection of individuals from
 > 4   the danger of death or serious bodily harm and
 > 5   the investigation and prosecution of crimes in-
 > 6   volving such danger of death or serious bodily
 > 7   harm; or
 > 8   ‘‘(D) for the protection of minors from
 > 9   child pornography, any risk of sexual exploi-
 > 10  tation, and serious threats to the physical safe-
 > 11  ty of minors, including kidnapping and traf-
 > 12  ficking and the investigation and prosecution of
 > 13  crimes involving child pornography, any risk of
 > 14  sexual exploitation, and serious threats to the
 > 15  physical safety of minors, including kidnapping
 > 16  and trafficking, and any crime referred to in
 > 17  section 2258A(a)(2) of title 18, United States
 > 18  Code.

So, protecting minors from "any risk of sexual exploitation" and 
generally "thinking of the children", preventing murder and kidnapping, 
for protection against any of the four "cyber threats" defined in the 
first quote above, and... drumroll please... for prosecuting hackers.

I'm guessing (B) is the real key here.

----------


It's hard to piece this all together, and I really want to hear others' 
impressions.  My impression is that:
1) DNI collected by NSA can be very useful in investigations, but 
prosecutors cannot use the evidence without disclosing sources and methods.
1a) The old solution to this problem was "parallel construction".
1b) Parallel construction is now under scrutiny, and they can't use it 
as easily as before.
2) But what if that data wasn't collected in an intelligence 
operation--what if organizations gave us this data directly?
3) Then FBI/NSA can still use the same DNI they've always been 
collecting, and acquired in the same way it always has benn, but they 
can now just claim that the organization concerned gave it to them, so 
a) it can be used in court without 4th amd. challenges, and b) there's 
no risk of disclosing sources and methods.

What does everyone else think?




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:09:05 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:09:05 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_znL0Y=vzJgwUP+MTRnkxQxYTPwGOakSdTJnHET3jNJw@mail.gmail.com>

> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?

Having been informed of potentially relevant links/models,
be they serious, officially recognized, related to tech or not,
discuss the cypherpunk...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_paganism




From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 11:14:06 2015
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:14:06 -0400
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com> <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CA29A7FF-57D2-418A-AE2C-BE9AF3C5A512@gmail.com>


> On Jan 13, 2015, at 2:34 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> 
> The question is not about encrypted materials, but about encryption algorithms 
> and tools, as far as I understand.

Patents and copyrights aren’t property. They’re government granted monopolies. They’re no more property than your driver’s license. 

Property is the application of mind to *matter*, to quote a great Flash animation. 

An idea can not be property. Ever.

So. Again. If it’s *encrypted*, and I have the key, it’s my property. I control the physical bits. 

Otherwise it’s not my property.

Cheers,
RAH





From demonfighter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:20:09 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:20:09 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm2vmqHN3ge_yO1ACkWkuvbomw97dr+=UMbQJSn0ZiC3Lg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:09 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?

Maybe 15 years ago I put together the paperwork for the Church of
Cybernetic Certainty. The IRS (IIRC; it may have been the NYS tax
department) basically told me to screw off. On the plus side, it was
amusing to put together my church's policies and it didn't cost anything to
put in the paperwork, and it annoyed a bureaucrat.

-- 
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:35:14 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:35:14 -0500
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
In-Reply-To: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_tRcpp+t4yEo5zpyhUCg-6mL8zdA1N=mRGFjODac9V5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:
> Theory of the day:
>
> 1) Naked short bitcoin (not sure how, but I'm sure some bankster did)
> 3) use profits from shorting to hire cex.io 'idled' capacity
> 4) double-spend on competing exchanges (or against competing investors funds)
> 5) buy an island or three, or a politician or 5
>
> Plausibility on a scale of 1-5 .. I say 4, what say you all?

There are certainly some people with a plan... make money
on both the up and down. Mining is experiencing a hiccup but
not affecting tx flow or fees yet. What will the next Bitcoin peak
and return look like? The path new currencies and economic
models take to stady state is interesting. It's good to have them
appear once in a while.

If you're buying politicians from your Bitcoin plays, both of you
probably need Bitcoin to continue to exist. Longer existance
results in better legitimacy, stability, and more participants
in the average... making some games a bit harder to play.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:50:45 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:50:45 -0500
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
 <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28tpcfvg=vKORPhyAva8b4nEaqjEqQ_V23Dmum=uy1EYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 1:34 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 09:39:06 Robert Hettinga pisze:
>> If it’s encrypted, and I have the key, it’s my property. That’s it.
>
> The question is not about encrypted materials, but about encryption algorithms
> and tools, as far as I understand.

As in OP, it is. ,,,the ideas, expressed, and tuning
their license etc to cypherpunk the same way gpl
tunes to their vision of 'freedom'. Hessla theirs, etc.
Robert could be viewed as that key is itself the
definition of one plain answer to the question.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 15:00:07 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 16:00:07 -0700
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B5A377.7020008@riseup.net>

On 01/13/2015 02:08 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:47 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 14:09:26 grarpamp pisze:
>>> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
>>
>> Don't we have more pressing issues to deal with?
>>
>> Here, let's get this over with:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
> 
> Many people have a need to identify with, participate in, and derive
> support from, a formal structure or at least a well defined meme...
> before they can independantly or collectively deal with issues.
> Even if what they follow ends up being Invisible Discordia.

I'm an agnostic Discordian. All Hail Eris! Or maybe All Hail Popper ;)




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 08:03:53 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 16:03:53 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org>

coinspot.io and indacoin.com was blocked too, so it's 5 websites.

Quote from the judgment posted by RKN:

"As article 27 of Federal law "On Central bank of Russian Federation"
says, official monetary unit (currency) of Russian Federation is ruble.
Introduction others monetary units and issuing money surrogates on the
territory of Russia is prohibited.

Under such conditions, cryptocurrencies, including "Bitcoin", are money
surrogates, they contribute to the rise of underground economy, and
can't be used by citizens and entitles on the territory of Russian
Federation"

https://vk.com/wall-76229642_16558

Anton Nesterov:
> So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it (162.159.245.241,
> 162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com (188.40.102.131 was blocked
> country-wide, because Neviansky's court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule
> 2-978/2014 on 30 September 2014. Text of this judgment is not known,
> it's not on their website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish
> their judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for
> exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to block
> Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.
> 
> 
> http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 13:08:11 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 16:08:11 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:47 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 14:09:26 grarpamp pisze:
>> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
>
> Don't we have more pressing issues to deal with?
>
> Here, let's get this over with:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

Many people have a need to identify with, participate in, and derive
support from, a formal structure or at least a well defined meme...
before they can independantly or collectively deal with issues.
Even if what they follow ends up being Invisible Discordia.




From 4chaos.onelove at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 14:20:47 2015
From: 4chaos.onelove at gmail.com (Henry Rivera)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:20:47 -0500
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <54B57E26.5080506@virtadpt.net>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADJYzxLbXRVrxEkPjDdaw=w7gTNCsDz+mMZ+ZXR1nkPzJb3c1w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54B57E26.5080506@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <CAMdUVLxpuk96DBnimD2sLwd0bgd0qacnCF-ySeu81e0-XGNPow@mail.gmail.com>

Media I saw reported that the personnel info published was all publicly
available. Thus the intent was to create the impression that networks were
compromised. Govt line however is that the info was not confidential. I
haven't done any research however to confirm even the face validity of that.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:20 PM, The Doctor <drwho at virtadpt.net> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 01/13/2015 10:46 AM, Daniel Van Wagenen wrote:
> > Does anyone else find it odd that they posted personnel data on
> > senior US military officials yet the US Government denies that any
> > military networks were compromised?
>
> Not at all.  It is possible (maybe even likely) that whoever wrote the
> press release about it was told to omit any mention of the personnel
> data in an attempt to downplay it.  People will remember what was
> talked about, not what was conveniently not talked about.
>
> - --
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> "You leave Jack Burton alone!" --Egg Shen, _Big Trouble In Little China_
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUtX4hAAoJED1np1pUQ8RkK6wP/0EPGEcFaKAD+c0p/Zb7bbs6
> 5YG2RWGZXfQDb8JVZqFaBfgHWP0PWG7IDHJi8ycl1FXAS0Wgpr7lrflMmw5c5WCm
> 7qBmLcJX8pHvBd522t5y/W5DoJu+YRJwMHYAPq4xwnFdwWZ3tEdLxlPZ7YwNp7tg
> 1RdrZyaEYIlzx3fVBahhHnVRI+9+v7m2mJW8mKkoNXbU2ajX8YwCojxVhgQTbNT/
> lNYrVwxSYJKGfyPs2YeN3BWyYvPXm1wdVUSgeBrGC5uPTZCCEWzWrlqRRr3+Kmne
> IetwlosYUebgN8v83RDRjvSCz+rOZmx67Z3v41e7l+VysShc5B1rdsRp4S0uq9v7
> V+osI6uZ4dXWfXnOIUGvmsiA/fwIKr2No35i64hQYHw100Poqn1lMq7L4gvBbK5r
> n6bqMTYlm4k3Qq2SEblVatwe9Qdc3Sos3PaGZvcHRWfoK5HxSsGr0FG7+QJy2Elm
> l/yc55lViRT/skX/IF90jnqpjX5Kl9c7oHcjHFNxc2Ji/MeASj5IbjAJ/uudJdAE
> 0KCXfro+CIetvTl7TezhfrV3hFnIwRPi7vPyrv7gAdC4pRU9/oBPJ6CczUsdpSfS
> sXeUG7ALmIxMbKvLIgTJsBfdTwlxz2LC/uo8CMB1MVtVdviy4sSzGUa/7AxiHr4i
> 86ewbMl+hTxHHknuFDGf
> =ol4q
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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From adi at hexapodia.org  Tue Jan 13 17:56:32 2015
From: adi at hexapodia.org (Andy Isaacson)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:56:32 -0800
Subject: [Cryptography] open hardware as a defence against state-level
 attacks
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29dPJ5==de5H9LYxcr9Tb_b2xyGF2dwy7rgx+Ny5k_XNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54ACE91A.3050808@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti29RxX51Mdzu5ghAij65shKzd_-BoHnvcaD1WNu88ewmPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54B3A5F7.8020608@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti29dPJ5==de5H9LYxcr9Tb_b2xyGF2dwy7rgx+Ny5k_XNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150114015632.GM13243@hexapodia.org>

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 03:04:23PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> Yet let me open another related line of thinking...
> 
> Where are the open fabs for makers instead of submitting open
> designs to closed fabs? It's 2015, crowdfunding, open source,
> non-profits, and public monitoring are done.

The LowRISC project aims to build a complete open SoC based on the
RISC-V architecture and get chips fabbed.

http://www.lowrisc.org/

-andy




From groundhog593 at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 15:26:54 2015
From: groundhog593 at riseup.net (Bethany)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:26:54 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <1421187348.570082.213528425.7D1BB7F1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1421187348.570082.213528425.7D1BB7F1@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <54B5A9BE.1000107@riseup.net>


On 13/01/15 05:15 PM, Alfie John wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 08:08 AM, grarpamp wrote:
>> Many people have a need to identify with, participate in, and derive
>> support from, a formal structure or at least a well defined meme...
>> before they can independantly or collectively deal with issues. Even
>> if what they follow ends up being Invisible Discordia.
> Isn't this antithesis to idea of cypherpunks in general? Once there is a
> formal structure, it can be controlled.

A religion is not necessarily a structure. Look at the Eastern religions
for example. Or at Quakerism.

>
>> Who are its priests? What are its idols?
> Priests can be discredited and marginalised leading to abandonment by
> the followers. That's why Anonymous has it right - with nobody at the
> top to take down, you can't collapse the group. Their power comes from
> shared idealism, not a dogmatic religion.
>
> Alfie

It would have no need for priests ... better to call them "philosophers"
anyway.

As an example, a Socratic question: what is the difference according to
you between a "shared idealism" and a "dogma"? Can you explain with
examples?




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 16:02:54 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:02:54 -0500
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28O=a3WjJtNyqSK7ed3dh-wKDQyPb+cNU5AwYj8Bzc7CQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> prohibited by Russian law, and the law allow courts to prohibit
> distribution of any information in Russia.

This is sad. Forget about cryptocurrency law for minute. Where
are the status of Russian populace voices in making these
speech prohibition laws? Are they rebelling? wtf, serious biz.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 18:22:04 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:22:04 -0700
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <1421196433.600399.213577109.4BB3C1EA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org> <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net>
 <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>
 <1421196433.600399.213577109.4BB3C1EA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <54B5D2CC.9030008@riseup.net>

On 01/13/2015 05:47 PM, Alfie John wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 11:17 AM, rysiek wrote:
>> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 23:24:46 odinn pisze:
>> Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_to_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/
>>
>> Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles,
>> is there any chance to stop this madness?
> 
> Don't try to stop it. In fact, we should all be rallying the people of
> the UK to champion this and put this in affect. Once the election
> results are over, the new government are sworn in, and the laws are
> passed, encryption is turned off throughout the UK. Awesome job. Pat on
> the back. Then watch how the banking sector no longer guarantee online
> transactions safe, the proles stop using credit cards online for
> ecommerce, and businesses stop using their company VPNs.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for David.
> 
> Alfie

I'm sure that the UK would just require registration for using SSH, TLS,
IPsec, OpenVPN, etc, etc. Consider Iran's approach in 2013.[0]

| "Within the last few days illegal VPN ports in the country have
| been blocked," Ramezanali Sobhani-Fard, the head of the Iranian
| parliament's information and communications technology committee,
| told Mehr news agency, according to Reuters. "Only legal and
| registered VPNs can from now on be used."

[0]
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/11/iran_blocks_vpns_facebook_youtube_down/




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 10:34:41 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:34:41 +0100
Subject: Cryptography Intellectual Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <9C09A84C-FA60-4288-BD20-46346C37C934@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 09:39:06 Robert Hettinga pisze:
> If it’s encrypted, and I have the key, it’s my property. That’s it.

The question is not about encrypted materials, but about encryption algorithms 
and tools, as far as I understand.

Anybody reading the BSD vs GPL thread knows what I would say: no patents; 
licensing under a strong colyleft free software license with patent 
granting/shielding clauses and clauses against TiVoization[1].

But hey, that's just me.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 11:31:03 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:31:03 +0100
Subject: Cryptography Imaginary Property: Formalities of Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <CA29A7FF-57D2-418A-AE2C-BE9AF3C5A512@gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti29owLs2tqvn5+VnFJjgtqxGd7fBye5Y9W4=4eUqx9H82w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3932827.c1u7vRUG6D@lapuntu> <CA29A7FF-57D2-418A-AE2C-BE9AF3C5A512@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5807656.bEsV81r7Cy@lapuntu>

Hi there,

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 15:14:06 Robert Hettinga pisze:
> > The question is not about encrypted materials, but about encryption
> > algorithms and tools, as far as I understand.
> 
> Patents and copyrights aren’t property. They’re government granted
> monopolies. They’re no more property than your driver’s license.

Well, I have posted this link on this list at least several times, but here it 
goes again:
http://copyspeak.org/intellectual-property

tl;dr we're agreed here

> Property is the application of mind to *matter*, to quote a great Flash
> animation.

Yes.

> An idea can not be property. Ever.

Absolutely.

> So. Again. If it’s *encrypted*, and I have the key, it’s my property. I
> control the physical bits.
> Otherwise it’s not my property.

It is not, actually. If you're going for such a strong definition of property, 
with which I can agree, than let's stay coherent, shall we? The property of 
yours is the physical device the bits are saved on. The harddrive, DVD, 
pendrive, whatever. That's your *property*. The encrypted data is just this: 
encrypted data.

Otherwise you would find yourself in an interesting world where applying 
encryption to data (both of which are not property, right) magically 
transforms something immaterial and "not-property" into "property".

That's the world the MPAA's/RIAA's/MAFIAA's are trying to create, look no 
further than the DMCA, under which even the simplest encryption algorithm 
(say, ROT13) applied to copyrighted material by the rights holder makes it 
illegal for others to publish the key (in this case, 13), as it becomes the 
"property" of the encrypting party. Look it up.

Data, encrypted or not, are not property; however, they can fall under a 
number of state-granted monopolies, as you have said. Here, I even changed the 
topic of this e-mail for your convenience.

And in this vein my previous mail has been written -- as far as I understand, 
the original question was about how encryption *algorithms* (and *not* 
encrypted data itself) should be handled from the Imaginary Property Law 
standpoint (so: patents, copyrights, etc).

And I have provided an answer from my perspective in said previous mail.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 15:33:30 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:33:30 -0300
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm2vmqHN3ge_yO1ACkWkuvbomw97dr+=UMbQJSn0ZiC3Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm2vmqHN3ge_yO1ACkWkuvbomw97dr+=UMbQJSn0ZiC3Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54b5aab8.95538c0a.7a80.ffffff95@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 15:20:09 -0500
Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:09 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
> 
> Maybe 15 years ago I put together the paperwork for the Church of
> Cybernetic Certainty. The IRS (IIRC; it may have been the NYS tax
> department) basically told me to screw off. On the plus side, it was
> amusing to put together my church's policies and it didn't cost
> anything to put in the paperwork, and it annoyed a bureaucrat.
> 

	Things seem to be somewhat different in sweden =P


	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-kANR1vJkM


	(there's a woman from the swedish government commenting on the
	church of kopimism)




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Tue Jan 13 12:46:24 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:46:24 +0000
Subject: Bittorrent Mainline DHT and Tor
Message-ID: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>

Hey all,
I'm aware that (for pretty good reasons) bittorrent is "blocked" by most 
exits on Tor. However, I'm unsure how this blockage is implemented, and 
it just emerged as a relevant item in my thought-process: the Bittorrent 
"Mainline" DHT is not necessarily useful to Bittorrent alone, but is 
frequently used as an experimental platform for other P2P applications.

Is the bittorrent DHT blocked by Tor exits, or just the Bittorrent 
file-transfer protocol? If the latter, how is that block enacted when 
most bittorrent apps support protocol obfuscation and dynamic ports?




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 11:47:58 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:47:58 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 14:09:26 grarpamp pisze:
> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?

Don't we have more pressing issues to deal with?

Here, let's get this over with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 15:49:03 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:49:03 -0300
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia, including
 bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <54b5ae59.0424e00a.58ff.fffff52a@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:12:25 +0000
Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it (162.159.245.241,
> 162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com (188.40.102.131 was blocked
> country-wide,

	What about proxies? Are all blocked too? 



 because Neviansky's court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule
> 2-978/2014 on 30 September 2014. Text of this judgment is not known,
> it's not on their website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish
> their judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for
> exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to block
> Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.
> 
> 
> http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 11:50:49 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 20:50:49 +0100
Subject: USCENTCOM Social Accounts Hacked
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm2g6u1EPpcHTSm=CAr81TgYd9oBAHxfqeEQZBu-LPH5CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADJYzxLYpfP6z27JO_TjZCKBWk2W6w+KQrC7JhvGAC8qcLeu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANwYVDAj=7warYVGR-Auas93JdG+9d+cy2jKk2F1vDbsvZwqeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm2g6u1EPpcHTSm=CAr81TgYd9oBAHxfqeEQZBu-LPH5CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1899313.jkYk46Lx2Z@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 14:08:27 Steve Furlong pisze:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Daniel Van Wagenen <dvanwag at gmail.com>
> 
> wrote:
> > Does anyone else find it odd that they posted personnel data on senior
> > US military officials yet the US Government denies that any military
> > networks were compromised?
> 
> The government spokesman is ignorant or dishonest. What's odd about that?

The fact that they're not using this to trump-up the to-be-expected "HURR DURR 
ISIS SUCH DANGEROUS HERP DERP WE NEED MORE SURVEILLANCE GOBBLY-GOOP TERRISTS 
ARE CYBERWARRING MURICAH!!1!" tripe.

Either they have not caught up with what's up, or they're trying to *actually 
play it down*, which might or might not be indicative of the importance of 
data posted.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 13:20:40 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:20:40 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>

Full judgment is avalable, thanks to Russian Pirate Party
http://www.slideshare.net/temychk/bitcoin-43468448 All in all, there is
7 websites, two others is bitcoinconf.ru and hashbitcoin.ru. That two
addresses not blocked (yet?), but presented in the judgment. One of them
shows just parked domain page, the other one is a website of Russian
Bitcoin conference set to 2 April 2015 in Moscow.

Judgment basically says it's illegal to use Bitcoin because the only one
currency in Russia is ruble, and Bitcoin is a money surrogate, which is
prohibited by Russian law, and the law allow courts to prohibit
distribution of any information in Russia.

For reason, it says that: "Free distribution of information about
electronic currency causes active use of cryptocurrencies for drug,
arms, and forgery dealing and other criminal activity. These facts, as
well as ability to uncontrollable transboundary money transfer followed
by cashing in, are hight-risk approaches for potential using
cryptocurrencies in schemes for legalization (money laundering) incomes
from criminal activity, and the financing of the terrorism."


http://rublacklist.net/9833/

Anton Nesterov:
> coinspot.io and indacoin.com was blocked too, so it's 5 websites.
> 
> Quote from the judgment posted by RKN:
> 
> "As article 27 of Federal law "On Central bank of Russian Federation"
> says, official monetary unit (currency) of Russian Federation is ruble.
> Introduction others monetary units and issuing money surrogates on the
> territory of Russia is prohibited.
> 
> Under such conditions, cryptocurrencies, including "Bitcoin", are money
> surrogates, they contribute to the rise of underground economy, and
> can't be used by citizens and entitles on the territory of Russian
> Federation"
> 
> https://vk.com/wall-76229642_16558
> 
> Anton Nesterov:
>> So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it (162.159.245.241,
>> 162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com (188.40.102.131 was blocked
>> country-wide, because Neviansky's court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule
>> 2-978/2014 on 30 September 2014. Text of this judgment is not known,
>> it's not on their website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish
>> their judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for
>> exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to block
>> Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.
>>
>>
>> http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)
>>
> 
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 14:28:09 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 22:28:09 +0000
Subject: Bittorrent Mainline DHT and Tor
In-Reply-To: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B59BF9.3080105@openmailbox.org>

With "Reduced Exit Policy" that allows connections only on some ports,
so dynamic ports are the reason why it works
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ReducedExitPolicy

Cathal Garvey:
> Hey all,
> I'm aware that (for pretty good reasons) bittorrent is "blocked" by most
> exits on Tor. However, I'm unsure how this blockage is implemented, and
> it just emerged as a relevant item in my thought-process: the Bittorrent
> "Mainline" DHT is not necessarily useful to Bittorrent alone, but is
> frequently used as an experimental platform for other P2P applications.
> 
> Is the bittorrent DHT blocked by Tor exits, or just the Bittorrent
> file-transfer protocol? If the latter, how is that block enacted when
> most bittorrent apps support protocol obfuscation and dynamic ports?
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From demonfighter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 20:08:04 2015
From: demonfighter at gmail.com (Steve Furlong)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:08:04 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAOFDsm2vmqHN3ge_yO1ACkWkuvbomw97dr+=UMbQJSn0ZiC3Lg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOFDsm2vmqHN3ge_yO1ACkWkuvbomw97dr+=UMbQJSn0ZiC3Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOFDsm2VraZFtf1e+5L9bQ24hB7fRWtBoc6Q-3kYiofFRKB5MQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Steve Furlong <demonfighter at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Maybe 15 years ago I put together the paperwork for the Church of
Cybernetic
> Certainty. The IRS (IIRC; it may have been the NYS tax department)
basically
> told me to screw off. On the plus side, it was amusing to put together my
> church's policies and it didn't cost anything to put in the paperwork,
and it
> annoyed a bureaucrat.

Several people emailed me, asking if I had any of the paperwork. No, I
don't. The computer that had the documents was disposed of when I wasn't
looking (It's amazing how much of my stuff mysteriously gets thrown away or
goes missing when I'm out of state or otherwise away from home for several
days. Truly astounding.) and the backup tapes were encrypted and I can't
remember the password. (Lesson for all: Yes, encrypt your backups. No,
don't lose the passwords.)

The actual tax department paperwork was nothing much. It was either paper
forms sent by the department or PDFs I printed. Just a few pages either way.

The supporting documentation was the credo, rites, and so on. I made up
stuff supporting the idea of worship through writing code and collecting
donations in exchange for receiving the blessing of working code, and
programming education under the name of training in the sacred rites. Don't
look for any deep theological meaning, as this was somewhere between a
prank and an attempted tax scam. Also, don't look to my work for guidance,
as I didn't get anywhere with it.

-- 
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. -- Arnaud-Amaury, 1209
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Tue Jan 13 15:24:46 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:24:46 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org> <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Anyone's use of encryption for any purpose is beyond the means of any
state to control, this should have been obvious in 1992, but it seems
various states "missed the memo" and are now waking up (though they'll
always be asleep at the wheel)

http://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/crypto-anarchy.html

I honestly think everyone will be better off as the people begin to
reclaim more of their ability to work together using new and
technological capabilities that are growing well beyond the capacity
of governmental systems that were popularized around the world in
systems that grew in popularity and "revolution-arity" approximately
226 years ago.  In other words, governments will be needed less and
less and we'll understand we need each other more and more.  It may
not be clear when governments will diminish (or disappear) and to what
extent that will happen, but I don't think obedience to them is
helpful at all.

Even so, with trustless systems, I still consider that for many
circumstances, "the relationship is the ultimate technology,"  though
one system or another we create may fail, we work together mindful of
the necessity to create new communities and systems that look forward.



Anton Nesterov:
> Full judgment is avalable, thanks to Russian Pirate Party 
> http://www.slideshare.net/temychk/bitcoin-43468448 All in all,
> there is 7 websites, two others is bitcoinconf.ru and
> hashbitcoin.ru. That two addresses not blocked (yet?), but
> presented in the judgment. One of them shows just parked domain
> page, the other one is a website of Russian Bitcoin conference set
> to 2 April 2015 in Moscow.
> 
> Judgment basically says it's illegal to use Bitcoin because the
> only one currency in Russia is ruble, and Bitcoin is a money
> surrogate, which is prohibited by Russian law, and the law allow
> courts to prohibit distribution of any information in Russia.
> 
> For reason, it says that: "Free distribution of information about 
> electronic currency causes active use of cryptocurrencies for
> drug, arms, and forgery dealing and other criminal activity. These
> facts, as well as ability to uncontrollable transboundary money
> transfer followed by cashing in, are hight-risk approaches for
> potential using cryptocurrencies in schemes for legalization (money
> laundering) incomes from criminal activity, and the financing of
> the terrorism."
> 
> 
> http://rublacklist.net/9833/
> 
> Anton Nesterov:
>> coinspot.io and indacoin.com was blocked too, so it's 5
>> websites.
>> 
>> Quote from the judgment posted by RKN:
>> 
>> "As article 27 of Federal law "On Central bank of Russian
>> Federation" says, official monetary unit (currency) of Russian
>> Federation is ruble. Introduction others monetary units and
>> issuing money surrogates on the territory of Russia is
>> prohibited.
>> 
>> Under such conditions, cryptocurrencies, including "Bitcoin", are
>> money surrogates, they contribute to the rise of underground
>> economy, and can't be used by citizens and entitles on the
>> territory of Russian Federation"
>> 
>> https://vk.com/wall-76229642_16558
>> 
>> Anton Nesterov:
>>> So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it
>>> (162.159.245.241, 162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com
>>> (188.40.102.131 was blocked country-wide, because Neviansky's
>>> court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule 2-978/2014 on 30 September
>>> 2014. Text of this judgment is not known, it's not on their
>>> website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish their
>>> judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for 
>>> exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to
>>> block Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From plaunit61398 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 15:34:52 2015
From: plaunit61398 at gmail.com (bh)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:34:52 +0000
Subject: Bittorrent Mainline DHT and Tor
In-Reply-To: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B5AB9C.40204@gmail.com>

The DHT uses UDP(not TCP) as its transport, which Tor does not support.

Some references:

DHT spec:
http://bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html

Tor and other transports:
https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq#TransportIPnotTCP

On 2015-01-13 20:46, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm aware that (for pretty good reasons) bittorrent is "blocked" by most
> exits on Tor. However, I'm unsure how this blockage is implemented, and
> it just emerged as a relevant item in my thought-process: the Bittorrent
> "Mainline" DHT is not necessarily useful to Bittorrent alone, but is
> frequently used as an experimental platform for other P2P applications.
> 
> Is the bittorrent DHT blocked by Tor exits, or just the Bittorrent
> file-transfer protocol? If the latter, how is that block enacted when
> most bittorrent apps support protocol obfuscation and dynamic ports?
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 14:58:12 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 23:58:12 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1653173.Gnp7AIyXMM@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 16:08:11 grarpamp pisze:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 2:47 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 14:09:26 grarpamp pisze:
> >> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
> > 
> > Don't we have more pressing issues to deal with?
> > 
> > Here, let's get this over with:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
> 
> Many people have a need to identify with, participate in, and derive
> support from, a formal structure or at least a well defined meme...
> before they can independantly or collectively deal with issues.
> Even if what they follow ends up being Invisible Discordia.

That's Invisible *Pink* Discordia, you insensitive clod! ;)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 15:00:26 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 00:00:26 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_znL0Y=vzJgwUP+MTRnkxQxYTPwGOakSdTJnHET3jNJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_znL0Y=vzJgwUP+MTRnkxQxYTPwGOakSdTJnHET3jNJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17125317.24pVrax2ye@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 15:09:05 grarpamp pisze:
> > Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
> 
> Having been informed of potentially relevant links/models,
> be they serious, officially recognized, related to tech or not,
> discuss the cypherpunk...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_religion
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_religion
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_paganism

Let's not forget His Noodlyness and his Pastafarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 13 16:17:28 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 01:17:28 +0100
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org> <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 23:24:46 odinn pisze:
> Anyone's use of encryption for any purpose is beyond the means of any
> state to control, this should have been obvious in 1992, but it seems
> various states "missed the memo" and are now waking up (though they'll
> always be asleep at the wheel)

Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_to_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/

Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles, is 
there any chance to stop this madness?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From lblissett at paranoici.org  Tue Jan 13 19:39:42 2015
From: lblissett at paranoici.org (L)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 01:39:42 -0200
Subject: NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <1731342.CgRZqsvXkn@lapuntu>
References: <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org>
 <20141230150908.GY29130@nl.grid.coop>
 <20141230164610.GB2519@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <1731342.CgRZqsvXkn@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150114033942.GA31197@tagesuhu-pc.batista.in>

On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 02:13:33AM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 30 grudnia 2014 18:46:10 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 09:09:08AM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > > The US government benefits greatly from dissidents in North Korea,
> > > China, Russia, Japan, and Germany being able to effectively use Tor
> > > to exfiltrate business intelligence and leak it to the people that
> > > run this country, the campaign contributors.
> > 
> > Sorry, but I don't believe this.
> > 
> > I agree with juan that tor has many bugs and quite likely is
> >  _heavily_ backdoored, the bugs we see are probably just the top of
> > the iceberg.
> > 
> > I suppose sufficiently many people got busted because of trusting tor
> > naively.
> 
> Show us the bugs, the backdoors, the examples of busted people, eh?

Well, I for one, have been busted real hard. They call it PITA.
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From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 17:58:55 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 01:58:55 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54b5ae59.0424e00a.58ff.fffff52a@mx.google.com>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54b5ae59.0424e00a.58ff.fffff52a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <54B5CD5F.8010507@openmailbox.org>

No, proxies still not blocked, as well as websites of Tor/I2P/VPN
providers/etc.

There was some rumors about a bill to block proxies for years (FSB said
that they want to write it, then MP Yaroslav Nilov, then FSB again,
leaked emails of MP Robert Shlegel contained some discussion, etc.), but
still no draft.

Juan:
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 13:12:25 +0000
> Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> 
>> So today bitcoin.org (208.64.123.130), bitcoin.it (162.159.245.241,
>> 162.159.246.241) and btcsec.com (188.40.102.131 was blocked
>> country-wide,
> 
> 	What about proxies? Are all blocked too? 
> 
> 
> 
>  because Neviansky's court of Sverdlovsk oblast rule
>> 2-978/2014 on 30 September 2014. Text of this judgment is not known,
>> it's not on their website yet (Russian laws force courts to publish
>> their judgments on the Internet), so this is hard to say what for
>> exactly this websites was blocked. The bill that allow to block
>> Bitcoin-related websites is still a draft.
>>
>>
>> http://tjournal.ru/paper/bitcoin-org-rkn (Russian)
>>
> 
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From komachi at openmailbox.org  Tue Jan 13 19:03:11 2015
From: komachi at openmailbox.org (Anton Nesterov)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 03:03:11 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28O=a3WjJtNyqSK7ed3dh-wKDQyPb+cNU5AwYj8Bzc7CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org> <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
 <CAD2Ti28O=a3WjJtNyqSK7ed3dh-wKDQyPb+cNU5AwYj8Bzc7CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B5DC6F.9090502@openmailbox.org>

First law Internet censorship law (2012) was met by some protest,
Russian Wikipedia was closed for a day, Russian Google & Yandex placed
censorship doodle, the law was criticized hardly by everyone in the
industry, etc., but it was passed anyway.

There was mass rallies followed election fraud in 2011-2012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9313_Russian_protests , and it
was probably the reason for all these crazy laws. 2011-2012 rallies
didn't brought to any positive changes, but made it clear that there is
many people who can go on the streets.

Rallies still going on (latest was on 30 December, organized all of
sudden in a day
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/30/alexei-navalny-sentenced-thousands-expected-protest-putin
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/world/europe/aleksei-navalny-convicted.html
, and there will be more).

And of course there is special law that allows general prosecutor to
immediately block websites with calls for unsanctioned rallies and
extremist activities.

grarpamp:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Anton Nesterov <komachi at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>> prohibited by Russian law, and the law allow courts to prohibit
>> distribution of any information in Russia.
> 
> This is sad. Forget about cryptocurrency law for minute. Where
> are the status of Russian populace voices in making these
> speech prohibition laws? Are they rebelling? wtf, serious biz.
> 


-- 
https://nesterov.pw
GPG key: 0CE8 65F1 9043 2B11 25A5 74A7 1187 6869 67AA 56E4
https://keybase.io/komachi/key.asc




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 01:03:54 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 04:03:54 -0500
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B5DC6F.9090502@openmailbox.org>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B541E9.3030409@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
 <CAD2Ti28O=a3WjJtNyqSK7ed3dh-wKDQyPb+cNU5AwYj8Bzc7CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54B5DC6F.9090502@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_G5EwEw-EeJt=sn19f813iFvvXuZAuAJ6NBoOPHdmptA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:03 PM, Anton Nesterov
<komachi at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> There was mass rallies followed election fraud in 2011-2012
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9313_Russian_protests , and it

I remember this history now. thx.




From alfiej at fastmail.fm  Tue Jan 13 14:15:48 2015
From: alfiej at fastmail.fm (Alfie John)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:15:48 +1100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <3954649.aPyGTqJOMT@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti28YEGzrWyNPuGiaY-W_oGzNv9+xWkx6duRUbam8f0xgXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1421187348.570082.213528425.7D1BB7F1@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 08:08 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> Many people have a need to identify with, participate in, and derive
> support from, a formal structure or at least a well defined meme...
> before they can independantly or collectively deal with issues. Even
> if what they follow ends up being Invisible Discordia.

Isn't this antithesis to idea of cypherpunks in general? Once there is a
formal structure, it can be controlled.

> Who are its priests? What are its idols?

Priests can be discredited and marginalised leading to abandonment by
the followers. That's why Anonymous has it right - with nobody at the
top to take down, you can't collapse the group. Their power comes from
shared idealism, not a dogmatic religion.

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at fastmail.fm




From marksteward at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 01:58:20 2015
From: marksteward at gmail.com (Mark Steward)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:58:20 +0000
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org> <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net>
 <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAPyX2nf=GPpzXdjo21ZcQvoEJ0w+7GgAx5j_c0GJFqiyp8ZP7g@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 Jan 2015 00:31, "rysiek" <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>
> Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_to_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/
>
> Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles, is
> there any chance to stop this madness?
>

We're mostly still laughing at it.

Mark
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From billstclair at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 07:10:14 2015
From: billstclair at gmail.com (Bill St. Clair)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 10:10:14 -0500
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAARJRB5L8U=dJdrU-OwXaxvuZ+GaXGC1OfSUWOY4EULE1Lwitg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me
> wrote:

> Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really nice design.
> Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files and messages, 1.3Gb of
> storage for free. No ads.
>
> https://peerio.com


​Promise of no ads ever. No sign of any usage fees. May be good technology,
but I see no business plan.​

-Bill St. Clair
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Jan 14 10:24:39 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:24:39 -0700
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <3072189.BWStVeFPzq@lapuntu>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <1421196433.600399.213577109.4BB3C1EA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54B5D2CC.9030008@riseup.net> <3072189.BWStVeFPzq@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54B6B467.9060009@riseup.net>

On 01/14/2015 07:12 AM, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 19:22:04 Mirimir pisze:
>> On 01/13/2015 05:47 PM, Alfie John wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 11:17 AM, rysiek wrote:
>>>> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 23:24:46 odinn pisze:
>>>> Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_t
>>>> o_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles,
>>>> is there any chance to stop this madness?
>>>
>>> Don't try to stop it. In fact, we should all be rallying the people of
>>> the UK to champion this and put this in affect. Once the election
>>> results are over, the new government are sworn in, and the laws are
>>> passed, encryption is turned off throughout the UK. Awesome job. Pat on
>>> the back. Then watch how the banking sector no longer guarantee online
>>> transactions safe, the proles stop using credit cards online for
>>> ecommerce, and businesses stop using their company VPNs.
>>>
>>> Be careful what you wish for David.
>>>
>>> Alfie
>>
>> I'm sure that the UK would just require registration for using SSH, TLS,
>> IPsec, OpenVPN, etc, etc. Consider Iran's approach in 2013.[0]
>>
>> | "Within the last few days illegal VPN ports in the country have
>> | been blocked," Ramezanali Sobhani-Fard, the head of the Iranian
>> | parliament's information and communications technology committee,
>> | told Mehr news agency, according to Reuters. "Only legal and
>> | registered VPNs can from now on be used."
> 
> Exactly. I'm sure the banking sector and the government would find some 
> amicable solution. For instance, banks could be exempt, as they already 
> provide any and all info the government asks them to.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for, Alfie. This, like many other laws, would be a 
> classic example of "give me a man and I'll find a crime". Magically, *some* 
> users of encryption would not be hindered/persecuted, and some would be to the 
> full extent permissible by law -- and far beyond.

This is the way with all weapons that threaten state monopoly of force.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Jan 14 10:32:25 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:32:25 -0700
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>

On 01/14/2015 07:22 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really nice
> design. Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files and messages,
> 1.3Gb of storage for free. No ads.
> 
> https://peerio.com

Very cool. Thanks :)

> I expect that the "product" will end up being "storage space", which is
> fine by me! Right now the server code isn't open, though the protocol
> (and therefore API) is very well documented in the git source:
> 
> https://github.com/PeerioTechnologies/peerio-client
> 
> Expect to see it banned in the UK soon. :)

It's an obvious vulnerability to use a domain that's controlled by the
US and its allies.




From alfiej at fastmail.fm  Tue Jan 13 16:47:13 2015
From: alfiej at fastmail.fm (Alfie John)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:47:13 +1100
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <54B58C28.1020503@openmailbox.org>
 <54B5A93E.3010205@riseup.net> <3085397.QYFgBRiLbh@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <1421196433.600399.213577109.4BB3C1EA@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 11:17 AM, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 23:24:46 odinn pisze:
> Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_to_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/
>
> Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles,
> is there any chance to stop this madness?

Don't try to stop it. In fact, we should all be rallying the people of
the UK to champion this and put this in affect. Once the election
results are over, the new government are sworn in, and the laws are
passed, encryption is turned off throughout the UK. Awesome job. Pat on
the back. Then watch how the banking sector no longer guarantee online
transactions safe, the proles stop using credit cards online for
ecommerce, and businesses stop using their company VPNs.

Be careful what you wish for David.

Alfie

-- 
  Alfie John
  alfiej at fastmail.fm




From aestetix at aestetix.com  Wed Jan 14 11:49:42 2015
From: aestetix at aestetix.com (aestetix)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:49:42 -0800
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It's also worth noting that they are using Cloudflare. Has Cloudflare
made any statements about whether they log traffic and/or hand over
data to governments?

On 1/14/15 11:32 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> It's an obvious vulnerability to use a domain that's controlled
>> by the US and its allies.
> 
> More good reasons to implement an open server! :)
> 
> On 14/01/15 18:32, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 01/14/2015 07:22 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>> Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really
>>> nice design. Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files
>>> and messages, 1.3Gb of storage for free. No ads.
>>> 
>>> https://peerio.com
>> 
>> Very cool. Thanks :)
>> 
>>> I expect that the "product" will end up being "storage space",
>>> which is fine by me! Right now the server code isn't open,
>>> though the protocol (and therefore API) is very well documented
>>> in the git source:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/PeerioTechnologies/peerio-client
>>> 
>>> Expect to see it banned in the UK soon. :)
>> 
>> It's an obvious vulnerability to use a domain that's controlled
>> by the US and its allies.
>> 
> 
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From chgans at gna.org  Tue Jan 13 14:59:51 2015
From: chgans at gna.org (Christian Gagneraud)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:59:51 +1300
Subject: Bittorrent Mainline DHT and Tor
In-Reply-To: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B58420.50009@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B5A367.6050004@gna.org>

On 14/01/15 09:46, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm aware that (for pretty good reasons) bittorrent is "blocked" by most
> exits on Tor. However, I'm unsure how this blockage is implemented, and
> it just emerged as a relevant item in my thought-process: the Bittorrent
> "Mainline" DHT is not necessarily useful to Bittorrent alone, but is
> frequently used as an experimental platform for other P2P applications.
>
> Is the bittorrent DHT blocked by Tor exits, or just the Bittorrent
> file-transfer protocol? If the latter, how is that block enacted when
> most bittorrent apps support protocol obfuscation and dynamic ports?

TOR exit nodes allow/forbid a fixed set of TCP port, that all they do AFAIK.

Chris




From dwhite at olp.net  Wed Jan 14 10:29:25 2015
From: dwhite at olp.net (Dan White)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 12:29:25 -0600
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150114182925.GC21463@dan.olp.net>

On 01/14/15 11:30 -0500, John Young wrote:
>Comsec dream: secure means uniquely controllable by each person.
>Free of faith, scripture, authorities, investors, apologists, exploiters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof

-- 
Dan White




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 11:17:12 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:17:12 -0500
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: <20150114182925.GC21463@dan.olp.net>
References: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150114182925.GC21463@dan.olp.net>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3ze8b2q_v2Nr+G_BW4pYFk9p38qG94E=d5BOXK3z3VKMcw@mail.gmail.com>

John might consider applied cryptography to be: faith, scripture,
authorities, investors, apologists, exploiters.

It's the best scripture we've got.

-Travis

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Dan White <dwhite at olp.net> wrote:

> On 01/14/15 11:30 -0500, John Young wrote:
>
>> Comsec dream: secure means uniquely controllable by each person.
>> Free of faith, scripture, authorities, investors, apologists, exploiters.
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
>
> --
> Dan White
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 14 06:22:16 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:22:16 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
Message-ID: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>

Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really nice 
design. Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files and messages, 
1.3Gb of storage for free. No ads.

https://peerio.com

I expect that the "product" will end up being "storage space", which is 
fine by me! Right now the server code isn't open, though the protocol 
(and therefore API) is very well documented in the git source:

https://github.com/PeerioTechnologies/peerio-client

Expect to see it banned in the UK soon. :)




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Wed Jan 14 14:39:34 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:39:34 -0800
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54B6F026.5090002@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 01/14/2015 04:41 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

> An admin I trolled about religion countertrolled he believes in the
> "god of servers".

The rantmedia.ca folks used to talk semi-seriously about SERVER, and
whether or not it had the Buddha nature.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"So light your candles, and may SERVER protect us all." --Sean Kennedy VI

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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Jan 14 04:41:55 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:41:55 +0200
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 02:09:26PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
> If so, what should it look like? Who are its priests? What are its
> idols? What happens to alms? For whom is its mission? How does it
> go about things and/or serve its people in the famliar (or unfamiliar)
> ways of other churches? Is it purely internal or does it have
> political or other external elements? Etc...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Church_of_Kopimism
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raelism
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_organization
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_religious_movements
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements

I suppose if this religion needs a deity, the heterogeneous
crowd will have hard time agreeing on deity/deities :)

An admin I trolled about religion countertrolled he believes
in the "god of servers".




From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Jan 14 13:52:00 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:52:00 -0700
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>

On 01/14/2015 01:01 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> Has Cloudflare made any statements about whether they log traffic
>> and/or hand over data to governments?
> 
> Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements from a US
> company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to jail over an NSL.

:)

> What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in, probably
> what their username/keyID is, and how much they're talking to the server.
> 
> Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential exists
> for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs it seems the
> server maintains an entry for which user is allowed to access which
> encrypted files, and therefore reveals to an observer who's the recipient.
> 
> So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard than
> email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed and unless you
> set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of private keys even on your
> computer, so it's also quite secure when crossing borders.

So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix of
VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
no traces to be inspected by adversaries.

Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?

> Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant clients, where
> you can delete files from the server including copies sent to clients.
> Obviously if the attached files are downloaded from the system, this
> can't reach them, but it will destroy any "authenticated" copies of the
> messages from the server, if it works (you're trusting the server).
> OPSEC wise, this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up
> after yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end of
> a conversation to a minimum.
> 
> On 14/01/15 19:49, aestetix wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> It's also worth noting that they are using Cloudflare. Has Cloudflare
>> made any statements about whether they log traffic and/or hand over
>> data to governments?
> 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 14 06:08:32 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:08:32 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <4971932.UYAX8xIp6F@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 14 stycznia 2015 14:41:55 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 02:09:26PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> > Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
> > If so, what should it look like? Who are its priests? What are its
> > idols? What happens to alms? For whom is its mission? How does it
> > go about things and/or serve its people in the famliar (or unfamiliar)
> > ways of other churches? Is it purely internal or does it have
> > political or other external elements? Etc...
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Church_of_Kopimism
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raelism
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_organization
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_religious_movements
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_religious_movement
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_new_religious_movements
> 
> I suppose if this religion needs a deity, the heterogeneous
> crowd will have hard time agreeing on deity/deities :)

I think the diety should be anonymous, nameless, but it should be imperative 
to create and use as many impromptu names for it as possible. I would also 
consider a rule saying that it is imperative for the faithful to draw 
caricatures of said deity at least once a year, and publish them.

> An admin I trolled about religion countertrolled he believes
> in the "god of servers".

I can see that. Come Monday morning, an admin comes to his workplace, notices 
there's, say, some random leakage of water from a pipe above the server room 
and goes: "oh god, the servers!"

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 14 06:12:25 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:12:25 +0100
Subject: 3 Bitcoin-related websites blocked in Russia,
 including bitcoin.org
In-Reply-To: <54B5D2CC.9030008@riseup.net>
References: <54B519B9.8040002@openmailbox.org>
 <1421196433.600399.213577109.4BB3C1EA@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <54B5D2CC.9030008@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <3072189.BWStVeFPzq@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 19:22:04 Mirimir pisze:
> On 01/13/2015 05:47 PM, Alfie John wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2015, at 11:17 AM, rysiek wrote:
> >> Dnia wtorek, 13 stycznia 2015 23:24:46 odinn pisze:
> >> Tel that to David Censormoron, or whatever his surname really is.
> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/12/iranuk_in_accord_as_pm_promises_t
> >> o_block_encrypted_comms_after_election/
> >> 
> >> Seriously, anybody from the UK here? How's the situation on the Isles,
> >> is there any chance to stop this madness?
> > 
> > Don't try to stop it. In fact, we should all be rallying the people of
> > the UK to champion this and put this in affect. Once the election
> > results are over, the new government are sworn in, and the laws are
> > passed, encryption is turned off throughout the UK. Awesome job. Pat on
> > the back. Then watch how the banking sector no longer guarantee online
> > transactions safe, the proles stop using credit cards online for
> > ecommerce, and businesses stop using their company VPNs.
> > 
> > Be careful what you wish for David.
> > 
> > Alfie
> 
> I'm sure that the UK would just require registration for using SSH, TLS,
> IPsec, OpenVPN, etc, etc. Consider Iran's approach in 2013.[0]
> 
> | "Within the last few days illegal VPN ports in the country have
> | been blocked," Ramezanali Sobhani-Fard, the head of the Iranian
> | parliament's information and communications technology committee,
> | told Mehr news agency, according to Reuters. "Only legal and
> | registered VPNs can from now on be used."

Exactly. I'm sure the banking sector and the government would find some 
amicable solution. For instance, banks could be exempt, as they already 
provide any and all info the government asks them to.

Be careful what you wish for, Alfie. This, like many other laws, would be a 
classic example of "give me a man and I'll find a crime". Magically, *some* 
users of encryption would not be hindered/persecuted, and some would be to the 
full extent permissible by law -- and far beyond.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 14 06:19:21 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:19:21 +0100
Subject: NSA Attacks on VPN, SSL, TLS, SSH, Tor
In-Reply-To: <20150114033942.GA31197@tagesuhu-pc.batista.in>
References: <54A0F5A8.5050708@metaverse.org> <1731342.CgRZqsvXkn@lapuntu>
 <20150114033942.GA31197@tagesuhu-pc.batista.in>
Message-ID: <1613935.gg0MLHGOQg@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 14 stycznia 2015 01:39:42 L pisze:
> On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 02:13:33AM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> > Dnia wtorek, 30 grudnia 2014 18:46:10 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 09:09:08AM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > > > The US government benefits greatly from dissidents in North Korea,
> > > > China, Russia, Japan, and Germany being able to effectively use Tor
> > > > to exfiltrate business intelligence and leak it to the people that
> > > > run this country, the campaign contributors.
> > > 
> > > Sorry, but I don't believe this.
> > > 
> > > I agree with juan that tor has many bugs and quite likely is
> > > 
> > >  _heavily_ backdoored, the bugs we see are probably just the top of
> > > 
> > > the iceberg.
> > > 
> > > I suppose sufficiently many people got busted because of trusting tor
> > > naively.
> > 
> > Show us the bugs, the backdoors, the examples of busted people, eh?
> 
> Well, I for one, have been busted real hard. They call it PITA.

Great. Can we try to locate and identify the backdoor? The code is open, so it 
*should* be possible, right?

inb4 trusting trust, use your own compiler or something ;)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 14 07:25:06 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:25:06 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <CAARJRB5L8U=dJdrU-OwXaxvuZ+GaXGC1OfSUWOY4EULE1Lwitg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAARJRB5L8U=dJdrU-OwXaxvuZ+GaXGC1OfSUWOY4EULE1Lwitg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B68A52.7070605@cathalgarvey.me>

Which mildly concerns me also, however it's in Beta so I suspect when 
1.0 lands it'll be "additional disk space" plus additional features.

Besides, the threat model is pretty transparent (content is invisible 
but senders/recipients/times all visible to server owner) and the client 
is open source and runs on a vetted crypto-scheme. The server is not 
open (yet?) but the documentation on the github makes the entire 
protocol very clear, so re-implementing would be time consuming but 
straightforward.

Implementing a third-party server that federates, and extending the code 
to allow for cross-domain messages could make this a nice 
websocket-based standard replacement for email that's crypto-first, at 
last. In the mean-while, I'm happy to use Nadim's server and see where 
he takes it.

On 14/01/15 15:10, Bill St. Clair wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Cathal Garvey
> <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me <mailto:cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>> wrote:
>
>     Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really nice
>     design. Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files and
>     messages, 1.3Gb of storage for free. No ads.
>
>     https://peerio.com
>
>
> ​Promise of no ads ever. No sign of any usage fees. May be good
> technology, but I see no business plan.​
>
> -Bill St. Clair

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 10:47:33 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 15:47:33 -0300
Subject: bitcomedy
Message-ID: <54b6b92f.c733e00a.0da7.ffffcd45@mx.google.com>



https://www.bitstamp.net/article/relaunch-faq/

What law enforcement agencies are involved in the investigation?

Bitstamp is working closely with US and international law enforcement
agencies specializing in digital-currency.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Jan 14 15:40:37 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 16:40:37 -0700
Subject: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]
In-Reply-To: <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>

On 01/14/2015 03:09 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix
>> of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
>> speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
>> no traces to be inspected by adversaries.
> 
> Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with
> real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is therefore a
> step up in security for me even if I continue to go by my usual name and
> use my usual IPs.
> 
> If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over regular
> email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a significant threat
> to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when setting up a peerio
> account (no longer required after setup, probably a throwback to
> email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact discovery by known email
> address), then use through Tor (do research whether websockets are
> tor-safe?).
> 
>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?
> 
> Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas Peerio
> seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client email. It's
> down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and a nice UI.

How about Pond as email replacement?

> As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who
> interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better, more
> secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels at making
> crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding a significant
> privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".

I'm curious what you (and others here) think about Keybase, which also
seems heavily targeted at normal users. There was some discussion here
in mid 2014, but Keybase has been tweaked a lot since then. I'm quite
impressed with its usability, but I don't have the expertise to properly
evaluate its security. I am uncomfortable with the option of uploading
private GnuPG keys, and counting on symmetric encryption for securing
them. Better I think would be helping users understand how to properly
migrate keys between devices, or perhaps to use smartcards.

> On 14/01/15 21:52, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 01/14/2015 01:01 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>> Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements from a US
>>> company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to jail over an NSL.
>>
>> :)
>>
>>> What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in, probably
>>> what their username/keyID is, and how much they're talking to the
>>> server.
>>>
>>> Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential exists
>>> for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs it seems the
>>> server maintains an entry for which user is allowed to access which
>>> encrypted files, and therefore reveals to an observer who's the
>>> recipient.
>>>
>>> So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard than
>>> email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed and unless you
>>> set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of private keys even on your
>>> computer, so it's also quite secure when crossing borders.
>>
>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix of
>> VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
>> speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
>> no traces to be inspected by adversaries.
>>
>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?
>>
>>> Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant clients, where
>>> you can delete files from the server including copies sent to clients.
>>> Obviously if the attached files are downloaded from the system, this
>>> can't reach them, but it will destroy any "authenticated" copies of the
>>> messages from the server, if it works (you're trusting the server).
>>> OPSEC wise, this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up
>>> after yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end of
>>> a conversation to a minimum.
> 




From chgans at gna.org  Tue Jan 13 20:26:27 2015
From: chgans at gna.org (Christian Gagneraud)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:26:27 +1300
Subject: [Cryptography] open hardware as a defence against state-level
 attacks
In-Reply-To: <20150114015632.GM13243@hexapodia.org>
References: <54ACE91A.3050808@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti29RxX51Mdzu5ghAij65shKzd_-BoHnvcaD1WNu88ewmPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <54B3A5F7.8020608@iang.org>
 <CAD2Ti29dPJ5==de5H9LYxcr9Tb_b2xyGF2dwy7rgx+Ny5k_XNA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114015632.GM13243@hexapodia.org>
Message-ID: <54B5EFF3.2050105@gna.org>

On 14/01/15 14:56, Andy Isaacson wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 03:04:23PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
>> Yet let me open another related line of thinking...
>>
>> Where are the open fabs for makers instead of submitting open
>> designs to closed fabs? It's 2015, crowdfunding, open source,
>> non-profits, and public monitoring are done.

Chip fabs are not cheap, you need billions of dollars/euros to start one 
up[1].
A more reasonable approach would be to buy an old one, but you would 
still need lot of millions. And this is without taking running costs 
into account. Running a fabrication plant is quite different from 
running a fablab or a hacker space....

Having micro-electonics background and being an open-source proponent, i 
have been thinking about this kind of problems for a while.

Before going for a semiconductor fabrication plant, maybe it would be 
better to start with something more simple like resistors, capacitors, 
diodes, transistors, ... (Look at the GNU project, they bootstrapped 
their "complete free Unix-like system" with  gcc, make, libc and the 
likes, they didn't start with gimp or gnome)

10/20 years ago, you would make your PCBs yourself (Printed Circuit 
Board [2]), the technology started with single layer PCB, and then came 
the 2 layers (double-sided) PCBs, it was a bit more difficult, but it 
was still doable. By 2015 the standard is 4, 6, 8+ layers, and I've 
never heard of DIY method to make such 4+ layers PCBs. Single and double 
layers PCBs are still useful, and i'm sure there's plenty of 
fablabs/hackespaces with the right gears to help you make them. But if 
your goal is to make a phone, a PC, ... you need way more advanced 
technology.

I see Open-Hardware as a myth and an utopia (I'm OK with this I am an 
utopian myself):
- A myth because so far people have created open electronics design with 
proprietary physical electronics and electro-mechnical components. I 
could go for hours on this one, just get one of this board in your hand 
(a Pi, beagleborad, arduino, ...) and look at it, every single physical 
part is proprietary, every single one! They usually used proprietary EDA 
software, with proprietary 3rd party libraries, they certainly sent 
their open designs to the PCB manufacturer using a proprietary format. 
And then they load it with open-source software and claim the thing to 
be open-hardware... (don't get me wrong, hat off to these awesome guys!)
- An utopia because we are light-years away from being able to produce 
100.0% open-hardware. As I said, a 100.0% open-hardware piece of 
equipment means that you have access to the technology of all parts 
being used to produce the final product (the equivalent of the source 
code of all open-source projects (and standards) needed to create a 
Linux distro for example). but as of today, nothing is open-technology, 
even a simple plastic connector or a ceramic capacitor are protected by 
patents all over the place! The manufacturers of these parts usually 
kindly provides you with models of their components (electronic symbol, 
3D model, PCB footprint, Ibis model, spice models, ...), nice, isn't it? 
Well, no, their license are not even compatible with any open-source 
ones, which mean you cannot use them to make an open-design, you have to 
start from scratch, almost each time!

To go towards a world where 100.0% open-hardware (electronics) is 
thinkable we would need:
- open technology to fabricate multi-layers PCBs ([3] looks promising)
- open technology to fabricate simple electronic and mechanical 
components (think resistors, capacitors, transistors, connectors, LEDs, ...)
- open technology to fabricate complex chips (CPU, memories, FPGAs, ...)
- open SW technology to create these electronics designs (using SW 
called EDA, CAD, ...)[4]
- And above all we need open standards! Fuck IEEE, IEC, IPC, etc... (As 
an exercise to the reader: try to imagine how the internet and the web 
would be if W3C and IETF were producing only closed and pricey standards)

Some interesting projects in case you don't know them:
http://opensourceecology.org
http://opencores.org/
http://www.ohwr.org/

PS: I know you started with open-source micro-electronics projects like 
a CPU chip, and i replied more on the above level (make a motherboard 
with the said CPU), but I think my point still stands: We first need 
open basic physical blocks (components) with which we will then create 
open complex parts.

Chris


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board
[3] Sorry can't find the link, but it's about printed carbon tracks on a 
piece of paper instead of using chemical process to create copper tracks 
on flame retardant material...
[4] If you're interested in these, just compare FreeCAD against 
SolidWorks and KiCAD against Altium, both FreeCAD and KiCAD are lacking 
far, far, far behind:
  FreeCAD (open source): http://www.freecadweb.org/
  SolidWorks (proprietary): http://www.solidworks.com/
  KiCAD (open source): http://www.kicad-pcb.org
  Altium (proprietary): http://www.altium.com/
And I didn't even talk about monsters like Cadence () to make your own 
IC (chip), there's virtually nothing to compare to in the free world!

>
> The LowRISC project aims to build a complete open SoC based on the
> RISC-V architecture and get chips fabbed.
>
> http://www.lowrisc.org/
>
> -andy
>




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 14 11:32:45 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 19:32:45 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me>

 > It's an obvious vulnerability to use a domain that's controlled by the
 > US and its allies.

More good reasons to implement an open server! :)

On 14/01/15 18:32, Mirimir wrote:
> On 01/14/2015 07:22 AM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> Just landed beta: open source, minilock-based crypto, really nice
>> design. Server side storage of end-to-end encrypted files and messages,
>> 1.3Gb of storage for free. No ads.
>>
>> https://peerio.com
>
> Very cool. Thanks :)
>
>> I expect that the "product" will end up being "storage space", which is
>> fine by me! Right now the server code isn't open, though the protocol
>> (and therefore API) is very well documented in the git source:
>>
>> https://github.com/PeerioTechnologies/peerio-client
>>
>> Expect to see it banned in the UK soon. :)
>
> It's an obvious vulnerability to use a domain that's controlled by the
> US and its allies.
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 14 12:01:17 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 20:01:17 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
Message-ID: <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me>

 > Has Cloudflare made any statements about whether they log traffic
 > and/or hand over data to governments?

Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements from a US 
company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to jail over an NSL.

What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in, probably 
what their username/keyID is, and how much they're talking to the server.

Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential exists 
for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs it seems the 
server maintains an entry for which user is allowed to access which 
encrypted files, and therefore reveals to an observer who's the recipient.

So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard than 
email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed and unless you 
set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of private keys even on your 
computer, so it's also quite secure when crossing borders.

Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant clients, where 
you can delete files from the server including copies sent to clients. 
Obviously if the attached files are downloaded from the system, this 
can't reach them, but it will destroy any "authenticated" copies of the 
messages from the server, if it works (you're trusting the server). 
OPSEC wise, this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up 
after yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end of 
a conversation to a minimum.

On 14/01/15 19:49, aestetix wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> It's also worth noting that they are using Cloudflare. Has Cloudflare
> made any statements about whether they log traffic and/or hand over
> data to governments?




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 14 14:09:12 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:09:12 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>

 > So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix
 > of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
 > speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
 > no traces to be inspected by adversaries.

Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with 
real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is therefore a 
step up in security for me even if I continue to go by my usual name and 
use my usual IPs.

If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over regular 
email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a significant threat 
to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when setting up a peerio 
account (no longer required after setup, probably a throwback to 
email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact discovery by known email 
address), then use through Tor (do research whether websockets are 
tor-safe?).

 > Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?

Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas Peerio 
seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client email. It's 
down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and a nice UI.

As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who 
interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better, more 
secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels at making 
crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding a significant 
privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".


On 14/01/15 21:52, Mirimir wrote:
> On 01/14/2015 01:01 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>> Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements from a US
>> company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to jail over an NSL.
>
> :)
>
>> What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in, probably
>> what their username/keyID is, and how much they're talking to the server.
>>
>> Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential exists
>> for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs it seems the
>> server maintains an entry for which user is allowed to access which
>> encrypted files, and therefore reveals to an observer who's the recipient.
>>
>> So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard than
>> email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed and unless you
>> set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of private keys even on your
>> computer, so it's also quite secure when crossing borders.
>
> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix of
> VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
> speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
> no traces to be inspected by adversaries.
>
> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?
>
>> Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant clients, where
>> you can delete files from the server including copies sent to clients.
>> Obviously if the attached files are downloaded from the system, this
>> can't reach them, but it will destroy any "authenticated" copies of the
>> messages from the server, if it works (you're trusting the server).
>> OPSEC wise, this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up
>> after yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end of
>> a conversation to a minimum.

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From hozer at hozed.org  Wed Jan 14 20:24:27 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:24:27 -0600
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
In-Reply-To: <20150115034640.8D080228211@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <20150115034640.8D080228211@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <20150115042427.GD14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:46:40PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
>  > Plausibility on a scale of 1-5 .. I say 4, what say you all?
> 
> When trying to execute a pump&dump scheme, it is more effective
> to attack something thinly traded, assuming, of course, that there
> are enough marks available to fleece.  In other words, pick a
> different coin:
> 
> http://alt19.com/19/cryptocurrency.php
> 
> 
> --dan
> 

Interesting, what do they mean by 'capitalization hard limit'

A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up.. 

And it's rather important to read the code and not the coins
marketing. Some of this stuff is kinda hilarious

https://github.com/fourtytwo42/42/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L835




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 14 14:54:02 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 23:54:02 +0100
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 14 stycznia 2015 22:09:12 Cathal Garvey pisze:
>  > So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix
>  > of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
>  > speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
>  > no traces to be inspected by adversaries.
> 
> Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with
> real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is therefore a
> step up in security for me even if I continue to go by my usual name and
> use my usual IPs.
> 
> If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over regular
> email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a significant threat
> to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when setting up a peerio
> account (no longer required after setup, probably a throwback to
> email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact discovery by known email
> address), then use through Tor (do research whether websockets are
> tor-safe?).
> 
>  > Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?
> 
> Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas Peerio
> seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client email. It's
> down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and a nice UI.
> 
> As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who
> interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better, more
> secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels at making
> crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding a significant
> privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".

With server code closed, it doesn't make sense to me to "sell" it to anybody.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From ryacko at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 01:57:56 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:57:56 -0800
Subject: Russian blockade of common bitcoin sites
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i3mexqQwsKQJbVmeVkDAScw2TWHnvjWGEg8eB-rihVvGw@mail.gmail.com>

>
> This is a different issue. As I read the Perspecsys piece, it's about
> protecting Russian users' data from the NSA etc, and not about censoring
> online activity.


And the Nazi invasion of Poland was to protect ethnic Germans from Polish
atrocities. The same goes for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I think Putin is trustworthy. His most trustworthy moment was when Snowden
called in to his yearly TV show and he told Snowden that Russia does not
spy on it's citizens like the NSA.

Let's take the word of a politician at face value, what could go wrong?
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Jan 15 03:20:22 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:20:22 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>

If the server code were open, how would you know the server was actually 
running that code anyway? Having the protocol documented so thoroughly 
makes the task of writing an alternative server trivial if 
time-consuming. I'd obviously prefer the server were AGPL, and I hope 
someone will write an AGPL'd server and federation.

For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't suck, the 
UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty transparent. I'm *never* 
going to inflict PGP on friends, but I'll happily inflict this on them.

On 14/01/15 22:54, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia środa, 14 stycznia 2015 22:09:12 Cathal Garvey pisze:
>>   > So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some mix
>>   > of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for anonymity vs
>>   > speed). And using devices with removable local storage, there would be
>>   > no traces to be inspected by adversaries.
>>
>> Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with
>> real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is therefore a
>> step up in security for me even if I continue to go by my usual name and
>> use my usual IPs.
>>
>> If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over regular
>> email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a significant threat
>> to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when setting up a peerio
>> account (no longer required after setup, probably a throwback to
>> email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact discovery by known email
>> address), then use through Tor (do research whether websockets are
>> tor-safe?).
>>
>>   > Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for example?
>>
>> Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas Peerio
>> seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client email. It's
>> down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and a nice UI.
>>
>> As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who
>> interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better, more
>> secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels at making
>> crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding a significant
>> privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".
>
> With server code closed, it doesn't make sense to me to "sell" it to anybody.
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Jan 15 03:24:43 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:24:43 +0000
Subject: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]
In-Reply-To: <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me>

 > How about Pond as email replacement?

I've looked at Pond long enough to see that it calls upon Tor for most 
of the anonymity heavy-lifting, and that it is clearly targeted at 
technical users. Most of the people in my life who I speak privately to 
are not technical. I don't think trivial UX is near in Pond's 
development roadmap.

 > I'm curious what you (and others here) think about Keybase, which also
 > seems heavily targeted at normal users. There was some discussion here
 > in mid 2014, but Keybase has been tweaked a lot since then. I'm quite
 > impressed with its usability, but I don't have the expertise to properly
 > evaluate its security. I am uncomfortable with the option of uploading
 > private GnuPG keys, and counting on symmetric encryption for securing
 > them. Better I think would be helping users understand how to properly
 > migrate keys between devices, or perhaps to use smartcards.

Keybase could have been a great way to encourage PGP uptake among normal 
people years ago when things were accepted to be difficult universally, 
but PGP's days are behind us. PGP makes a good way to sign code but 
remains a terrible way to communicate securely, because although it's 
"uncrackable" when used correctly, it's very easy to accidentally screw 
up using PGP on either end of the conversation. Also, the lack of PFS 
ignores parts of the modern threat model that were speculative when PGP 
was created.

Suffice to say that, even ignoring the issues with Keybase encouraging 
key escrow by "allowing" or encouraging key upload (!!!), I don't think 
it helps. Perhaps as a basis on which to build a web-of-trust that can 
be transposed into newer cryptosystems, but the key escrow part makes 
falsification of trust a real possibility.

Anyway, maybe that's just me.

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Jan 15 03:26:22 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:26:22 +0000
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
In-Reply-To: <20150115042427.GD14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <20150115034640.8D080228211@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150115042427.GD14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <54B7A3DE.5030404@cathalgarvey.me>

 > A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
 > drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
 > limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up..

To a libertarian, inflation is a "bug", but not necessarily to others. 
Models that allow infinite inflation over a long time-period are 
different economic models, rather than badly implemented crypto-code.

Personally, I think inherently deflationary is a bad economic model, so 
I'd be more inclined towards an inflationary currency.

On 15/01/15 04:24, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:46:40PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
>>   > Plausibility on a scale of 1-5 .. I say 4, what say you all?
>>
>> When trying to execute a pump&dump scheme, it is more effective
>> to attack something thinly traded, assuming, of course, that there
>> are enough marks available to fleece.  In other words, pick a
>> different coin:
>>
>> http://alt19.com/19/cryptocurrency.php
>>
>>
>> --dan
>>
>
> Interesting, what do they mean by 'capitalization hard limit'
>
> A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
> drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
> limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up..
>
> And it's rather important to read the code and not the coins
> marketing. Some of this stuff is kinda hilarious
>
> https://github.com/fourtytwo42/42/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L835
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Jan 15 10:57:55 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:57:55 -0700
Subject: Russian blockade of common bitcoin sites
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i3mexqQwsKQJbVmeVkDAScw2TWHnvjWGEg8eB-rihVvGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i3mexqQwsKQJbVmeVkDAScw2TWHnvjWGEg8eB-rihVvGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54B80DB3.7090409@riseup.net>

On 01/15/2015 02:57 AM, Ryan Carboni wrote:
>>
>> This is a different issue. As I read the Perspecsys piece, it's about
>> protecting Russian users' data from the NSA etc, and not about censoring
>> online activity.
> 
> 
> And the Nazi invasion of Poland was to protect ethnic Germans from Polish
> atrocities. The same goes for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Given how many nations are recreating their stuff to protect their
citizens' data from NSA etc, the Russian efforts are not unusual. But of
course Russia has a long history of social repression. One can argue
that it's all defensive, and driven by fear of the Allies. Or instead,
one can argue that it's just Russian mafia/oligarchs protecting their
turf and sheeple. Reality is probably some mix of all that, with maybe
even some idealism thrown in.

> I think Putin is trustworthy. His most trustworthy moment was when Snowden
> called in to his yearly TV show and he told Snowden that Russia does not
> spy on it's citizens like the NSA.
> 
> Let's take the word of a politician at face value, what could go wrong?

Calling Putin a politician is in itself amusing :)




From comzeradd at fsfe.org  Thu Jan 15 04:12:26 2015
From: comzeradd at fsfe.org (Nikos Roussos)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:12:26 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
 <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <E8DF3BB7-5C97-4BD2-8CA3-B0785D356950@fsfe.org>



On January 15, 2015 1:20:22 PM EET, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>If the server code were open, how would you know the server was
>actually 
>running that code anyway? Having the protocol documented so thoroughly 
>makes the task of writing an alternative server trivial if 
>time-consuming. I'd obviously prefer the server were AGPL, and I hope 
>someone will write an AGPL'd server and federation.
>
>For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't suck, the
>
>UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty transparent. I'm
>*never* 
>going to inflict PGP on friends, but I'll happily inflict this on them.

Since this is mostly for synchronous communication, you can inflict jabber+otr, which has all the benefits you mention above.




From dan at geer.org  Thu Jan 15 09:20:33 2015
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:20:33 -0500
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Jan 2015 11:30:15 -0500."
 <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150115172033.557B82280ED@palinka.tinho.net>

John Young writes:
 | Comsec dream: secure means uniquely controllable by each person.
 | Free of faith, scripture, authorities, investors, apologists, exploiters.


Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy.  The 
savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.
Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
                        -- Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead (1943)





From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Jan 15 04:35:00 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 12:35:00 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <E8DF3BB7-5C97-4BD2-8CA3-B0785D356950@fsfe.org>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
 <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>
 <E8DF3BB7-5C97-4BD2-8CA3-B0785D356950@fsfe.org>
Message-ID: <63D2B3A6-FFA1-419D-8906-5C252CF45AAE@cathalgarvey.me>

Who said synchronous? It's a chatlike, but this is server-hosted async message and file storage.

Also, the failure of xmpp/jabber to attract the masses in the last decade is no accident.

On 15 January 2015 12:12:26 GMT+00:00, Nikos Roussos <comzeradd at fsfe.org> wrote:
>
>
>On January 15, 2015 1:20:22 PM EET, Cathal Garvey
><cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>>If the server code were open, how would you know the server was
>>actually 
>>running that code anyway? Having the protocol documented so thoroughly
>
>>makes the task of writing an alternative server trivial if 
>>time-consuming. I'd obviously prefer the server were AGPL, and I hope 
>>someone will write an AGPL'd server and federation.
>>
>>For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't suck,
>the
>>
>>UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty transparent. I'm
>>*never* 
>>going to inflict PGP on friends, but I'll happily inflict this on
>them.
>
>Since this is mostly for synchronous communication, you can inflict
>jabber+otr, which has all the benefits you mention above.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 09:52:22 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 14:52:22 -0300
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
In-Reply-To: <54B7A3DE.5030404@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <20150115034640.8D080228211@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150115042427.GD14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <54B7A3DE.5030404@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54b7fdbf.4778e00a.0f02.ffffbd2a@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:26:22 +0000
Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

>  > A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
>  > drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
>  > limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up..
> 
> To a libertarian, inflation is a "bug", but not necessarily to
> others.


	LMAO!!!!

	Of course. To a parasite, the ability to steal isn't a 'bug'
	but a feature. 



	

> Models that allow infinite inflation over a long time-period
> are different economic models, rather than badly implemented
> crypto-code.
> 
> Personally, I think inherently deflationary is a bad economic model,
> so I'd be more inclined towards an inflationary currency.
> 
> On 15/01/15 04:24, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:46:40PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
> >>   > Plausibility on a scale of 1-5 .. I say 4, what say you all?
> >>
> >> When trying to execute a pump&dump scheme, it is more effective
> >> to attack something thinly traded, assuming, of course, that there
> >> are enough marks available to fleece.  In other words, pick a
> >> different coin:
> >>
> >> http://alt19.com/19/cryptocurrency.php
> >>
> >>
> >> --dan
> >>
> >
> > Interesting, what do they mean by 'capitalization hard limit'
> >
> > A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
> > drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
> > limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up..
> >
> > And it's rather important to read the code and not the coins
> > marketing. Some of this stuff is kinda hilarious
> >
> > https://github.com/fourtytwo42/42/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L835
> >
> 




From list at sysfu.com  Thu Jan 15 15:19:21 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:19:21 -0800
Subject: DHS fingered Mt. Gox's Mark Karpales as original Silk Road founder
Message-ID: <op.xsi1qjrcbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

Hat tip to UnSYSTEM mailing list

http://www.dailydot.com/crime/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-mark-karpales-fbi/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sjuvu/defense_in_silk_road_trial_arguing_mark_karpeles/cnq7f3i




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 15 05:42:33 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 15:42:33 +0200
Subject: Official RFC:  Opportunistic Security: Some Protection Most of the
 Time
Message-ID: <20150115134233.GA2557@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Official RFC:  http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7435.txt

Opportunistic Security: Some Protection Most of the Time

V. Dukhovni
Two Sigma
December 2014




From hozer at hozed.org  Thu Jan 15 15:04:56 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: <20150115172033.557B82280ED@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150115172033.557B82280ED@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <20150115230456.GE14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:20:33PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
> John Young writes:
>  | Comsec dream: secure means uniquely controllable by each person.
>  | Free of faith, scripture, authorities, investors, apologists, exploiters.
> 
> 
> Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy.  The 
> savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.
> Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
>                         -- Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead (1943)

>From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

Does this not describe the copyleft and copyfree software? Or maybe
it describes a world where farmers figure out they can make more 
money by giving away all the food the world needs, and knowing 
when to sell the rest for profit?

But I have a hard time believing that mathematics is anything other
than a testable shared belief, in which we all share faith.




From hozer at hozed.org  Thu Jan 15 15:14:10 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:14:10 -0600
Subject: bitcoin tinfoil-hattery
In-Reply-To: <54b7fdbf.4778e00a.0f02.ffffbd2a@mx.google.com>
References: <20150113200141.GB14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <20150115034640.8D080228211@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150115042427.GD14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <54B7A3DE.5030404@cathalgarvey.me>
 <54b7fdbf.4778e00a.0f02.ffffbd2a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20150115231410.GF14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 02:52:22PM -0300, Juan wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:26:22 +0000
> Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> 
> >  > A couple of those coins have ongoing block rewards that never
> >  > drop to zero, or proof-of stake, so there's not really a hard
> >  > limit. And then there are non-obvious bugs that can blow up..
> > 
> > To a libertarian, inflation is a "bug", but not necessarily to
> > others.
> 
> 
> 	LMAO!!!!
> 
> 	Of course. To a parasite, the ability to steal isn't a 'bug'
> 	but a feature. 

Libertarians are such easy marks...

http://quickercoins.com/42coins/

Can you tell if 42coin is inflationary, or follows proper orthodoxy
and actually has a hard limit?

The problem with Ultra-orthadox religious libertarians is they can't
seem to believe that the code might do anything other than what the 
marketing says it does.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 14:29:31 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:29:31 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk reviews of products [was: peerio.com]
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_CvY4PQN_ceHpy1n-TJZsNv_tBU8serN2AUafcnNhrEg@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding peerio.com thread...

The issue there is that so far it appears they're just another
commercial startup of the day trying to figure out if they
can monetize it by witholding the server. Their interest does
not yet appear to be in you, but in holding your accounts.
Which they or govt can cancel (censor) at any time. Just like any
other centralized commercial service on the net. While not the
content, they apparently have access to all your messaging
and storage metadata and friend lists, so that's a non
improvement. And non-optional read message notification
back to the sender? Well, if you like being trapped by senders.
They claim to be 'peer reviewed' and "professionally
audited' in big letters but provide no such backing papers
anywhere. They say "tested and proven security" and all
sorts of other marketing drivel and hype (look at their github site
commits) and provide few self-caveats. Their source probably doesn't
match the binaries they're distributing. How exactly do they plan
on being "free and ad-free and not selling you" while existing past
year one. Wasn't one of the author's Cryptocat flawed too? Etc.
Here's another classic game being played...
"we [...] require the user to confirm their email or phone number."
Really, wtf, default to that if you want for the masses security/recovery
illusion, but make it optional for those that don't want the tracking
reality. Don't forget, their "invites" are not just a fun party and
name reservation, but tracking too.

Interesting API/model, it may even be a step in the game such
that you might consider inflicting on your friends, or even paying
for yourself (because free isn't free so you will pay somehow),
nothing wrong with that. But just saying its neat looks good and
whatever other two-bit reviews were made is not doing
the public much service.

Cypherpunks should in fact review and endorse "step in the
game" commercial services as they come along, if they're worthy.
(All the upstart browser based on the fly crypto central email services
not being one of them, that's what Thunderbird and Enigmail are for.)
Just know that in this field, a good review needs to call out the
marketing BS and be seriously candid about what exactly the stepwise
advances in the game are, what they defeat, how any caveats make
them moot in particular or on the whole compared to more mature
solutions, and where if anything can be improved. This isn't email,
texting, facebook, using the phone or giving a speech in public.
Privacy and crypto assertions and statements to uses for such
purposes made by products to a new and clueless user base are
serious business and have highly different needs requiring careful
analysis (even if the bottom line summary attached to it is "looks
good").

And as cypherpunks, why not also swipe parts of its model,
replace the backend with some sort of distributed anonymous
p2p storage grid where you get what you donate over it.
Similarly, with a $10 shell account and the server side you could
have an analog to the group messaging and storage of peerio.
Further what about RetroShare and other similar things that already
exist.

It's clear that with many new products appearing, there needs to
be the emergence of reviews by reviewers that are steeped in
the same space.

Consider what could be done similar to this:
https://www.prism-break.org/
with review centric nature of these (before they went pop)
https://www.anandtech.com/
mashed with more detailed facts and tables and openness like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_P2P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_disk_encryption_software
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_sharing_applications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_webmail_providers




From shelley at misanthropia.info  Thu Jan 15 17:40:37 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.info (shelley at misanthropia.info)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:40:37 -0800
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B6F026.5090002@virtadpt.net> <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015, at 04:05 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

> Or cats.
> 
> Ceiling Cat
> Basement Cat
> Catoshi, the patron of low-market altcoins

Catoshi!  Good one.  Of course, our sabbath would be Caturday, at the
altar of LongCat.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 15 08:44:19 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:44:19 +0100
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
 <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <1863566.54vnLKHria@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 11:20:22 Cathal Garvey pisze:
> If the server code were open, how would you know the server was actually
> running that code anyway?

Not much. But it would allow others to run the server code and offer similar 
service, at the very least.

> Having the protocol documented so thoroughly makes the task of writing an
> alternative server trivial if time-consuming. I'd obviously prefer the
> server were AGPL, and I hope someone will write an AGPL'd server and
> federation.

Of course. The "time-consuming" part is what bothers me. I *could* throw in an 
hour or two to set-up a peerio server had the code been available; I have 
absolutely *no way in hell* of throwing in days or weeks of work to implement 
their protocol.

> For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't suck, the
> UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty transparent. I'm *never*
> going to inflict PGP on friends, but I'll happily inflict this on them.

So far, as far as I can see, you're not even inflicting PGP on us here, let 
alone your friends.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From hozer at hozed.org  Thu Jan 15 16:05:02 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 18:05:02 -0600
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <54B6F026.5090002@virtadpt.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54B6F026.5090002@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 02:39:34PM -0800, The Doctor wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On 01/14/2015 04:41 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> 
> > An admin I trolled about religion countertrolled he believes in the
> > "god of servers".
> 
> The rantmedia.ca folks used to talk semi-seriously about SERVER, and
> whether or not it had the Buddha nature.
> 
> - -- 
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
> Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/
> 
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
> 
> "So light your candles, and may SERVER protect us all." --Sean Kennedy VI

Or cats.

Ceiling Cat
Basement Cat
Catoshi, the patron of low-market altcoins




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Thu Jan 15 11:45:59 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 19:45:59 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <1863566.54vnLKHria@lapuntu>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
 <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me> <1863566.54vnLKHria@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54B818F7.9070307@cathalgarvey.me>

 > So far, as far as I can see, you're not even inflicting PGP on us
 > here, let alone your friends.

I did for a while, but then I moved hardware and didn't see any reason 
to set up PGP again. At best, it was a signal to people that I cared 
about security/privacy, at worst it was making everything I posted 
non-repudiable for no useful reason.

The fact that miniLock is authenticated but repudiable makes it a better 
bet for PGP-usecase purposes *anyway*, and my minilock ID is in my 
signature (again, had lapsed by accident) for people who want to use 
miniLock outside of peerio.

But, miniLock isn't (opportunistic pun) "turn-key", it requires 
launching, authenticating, dropping a file to encrypt, typing in a 
miniLock ID to encrypt to (encrypting to yourself probably makes it 
non-repudiable if someone acquires your private key, beware!), 
downloading the encrypted file, and then transmitting the encrypted file 
out-of-band.

Now, implementing Peerio server is something I endorse. If I weren't too 
busy, I'd investigate doing it myself, it looks like fun. If anyone does 
feel like it, they have miniLock for JS-based servers, and deadLock for 
Python-based servers (needs some work/bugfixes).

On 15/01/15 16:44, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 11:20:22 Cathal Garvey pisze:
>> If the server code were open, how would you know the server was actually
>> running that code anyway?
>
> Not much. But it would allow others to run the server code and offer similar
> service, at the very least.
>
>> Having the protocol documented so thoroughly makes the task of writing an
>> alternative server trivial if time-consuming. I'd obviously prefer the
>> server were AGPL, and I hope someone will write an AGPL'd server and
>> federation.
>
> Of course. The "time-consuming" part is what bothers me. I *could* throw in an
> hour or two to set-up a peerio server had the code been available; I have
> absolutely *no way in hell* of throwing in days or weeks of work to implement
> their protocol.
>
>> For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't suck, the
>> UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty transparent. I'm *never*
>> going to inflict PGP on friends, but I'll happily inflict this on them.
>
> So far, as far as I can see, you're not even inflicting PGP on us here, let
> alone your friends.
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From tbiehn at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 17:02:21 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 20:02:21 -0500
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: <20150115230456.GE14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150115172033.557B82280ED@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150115230456.GE14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zesLco3iFWfh91xUg36x7tTo+PKhgRKTcNbdHaV6_GTNA@mail.gmail.com>

The distinction is crypto is applied. The axioms and rules don't require
belief or faith - applied crypto has shown time and time again to require
belief and faith.

Crypto is opaque - but open.

DES was once thought to be secure.
RSA was once thought to be secure.
PKI was once thought to be secure.

-Travis

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 12:20:33PM -0500, dan at geer.org wrote:
> > John Young writes:
> >  | Comsec dream: secure means uniquely controllable by each person.
> >  | Free of faith, scripture, authorities, investors, apologists,
> exploiters.
> >
> >
> > Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy.  The
> > savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe.
> > Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
> >                         -- Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead (1943)
>
> From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
>
> Does this not describe the copyleft and copyfree software? Or maybe
> it describes a world where farmers figure out they can make more
> money by giving away all the food the world needs, and knowing
> when to sell the rest for profit?
>
> But I have a hard time believing that mathematics is anything other
> than a testable shared belief, in which we all share faith.
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Fri Jan 16 01:11:05 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:11:05 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B818F7.9070307@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <1510607.vrVj6zLLcz@lapuntu>
 <54B7A276.9010705@cathalgarvey.me> <1863566.54vnLKHria@lapuntu>
 <54B818F7.9070307@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B8D5A9.2090206@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On this whole point of Gnupg (gpg) and some of the issues with using
it (and transitions etc), may I (well, I just will) recommend this,
from sources I've compiled in a way that people seem to like and have
found helpful:

Crazy Strong: @gnupg "learn or die" in 2015 #31c3 All systems
https://securityinabox.org/thunderbird_main
See also http://futureboy.us/pgp.html#GettingStarted
http://www.g-loaded.eu/2010/11/01/change-expiration-date-gpg-key/

on twitter as:
https://twitter.com/AnonyOdinn/status/550826144014934016

which has caused Gnupg / thunderbird / etc. awareness to reach 14,685
accounts that might otherwise not have seen it.

based on an analysis from http://tweetreach.com/reports/12801475
Learn or die folks.

but you may ask, what about the transitions? new machine? older key
issues? proper use? getting stronger new key? etc.

valid questions! which is what I am asking myself right now (since I
have some old key issues that I am trying to work through and I didn't
have good answers).

fortunately, rysiek came to the rescue in a very timely way, and gave
me permission to republish (rysiek's) statement which appears below:
rysiek explains:
GPG Key Transition: http://rys.io/en/147
Zmieniam klucz GPG: http://rys.io/pl/147

twitter:
https://twitter.com/AnonyOdinn/status/552630836747456512

The instructions are very clear and helpful.  (Thank you rysiek!)

I'll be developing my own transition statement at some point soon
using rysiek's page as a guide. Not sure of when, but rysiek's page
will be my guide.


Cathal Garvey:
>> So far, as far as I can see, you're not even inflicting PGP on
>> us here, let alone your friends.
> 
> I did for a while, but then I moved hardware and didn't see any
> reason to set up PGP again. At best, it was a signal to people that
> I cared about security/privacy, at worst it was making everything I
> posted non-repudiable for no useful reason.
> 
> The fact that miniLock is authenticated but repudiable makes it a
> better bet for PGP-usecase purposes *anyway*, and my minilock ID is
> in my signature (again, had lapsed by accident) for people who want
> to use miniLock outside of peerio.
> 
> But, miniLock isn't (opportunistic pun) "turn-key", it requires 
> launching, authenticating, dropping a file to encrypt, typing in a 
> miniLock ID to encrypt to (encrypting to yourself probably makes
> it non-repudiable if someone acquires your private key, beware!), 
> downloading the encrypted file, and then transmitting the encrypted
> file out-of-band.
> 
> Now, implementing Peerio server is something I endorse. If I
> weren't too busy, I'd investigate doing it myself, it looks like
> fun. If anyone does feel like it, they have miniLock for JS-based
> servers, and deadLock for Python-based servers (needs some
> work/bugfixes).
> 
> On 15/01/15 16:44, rysiek wrote:
>> Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 11:20:22 Cathal Garvey pisze:
>>> If the server code were open, how would you know the server was
>>> actually running that code anyway?
>> 
>> Not much. But it would allow others to run the server code and
>> offer similar service, at the very least.
>> 
>>> Having the protocol documented so thoroughly makes the task of 
>>> writing an alternative server trivial if time-consuming. I'd
>>> obviously prefer the server were AGPL, and I hope someone will
>>> write an AGPL'd server and federation.
>> 
>> Of course. The "time-consuming" part is what bothers me. I
>> *could* throw in an hour or two to set-up a peerio server had the
>> code been available; I have absolutely *no way in hell* of
>> throwing in days or weeks of work to implement their protocol.
>> 
>>> For now though, the client is open source, the crypto doesn't
>>> suck, the UX is excellent, and the threat model is pretty
>>> transparent. I'm *never* going to inflict PGP on friends, but
>>> I'll happily inflict this on them.
>> 
>> So far, as far as I can see, you're not even inflicting PGP on
>> us here, let alone your friends.
>> 
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=6gAV
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Fri Jan 16 01:48:02 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 09:48:02 +0000
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
 <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

tl'dr

Look... Cathal, I do like what you've done in the tiny realm of code ~
short, simple, and to the point, some examples being:

Deadlock ~ dead simple encryption
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/deadlock


P2P, serverless microstatus system in 30 lines of pure python
https://github.com/cathalgarvey/tinystatus

(slooooowwwwww claaaaaaaappssssss)

So with that out of the way, I have to say, though, your criticism
which has appeared on my TL before of PGP is in my view, unwarranted,
because,  GnuPGP just aren't getting the funding need(ed) to get what
should be done, done.  It's been done essentially by one person.  And
frankly they could use a bit of help in getting out the word.

Here's a thoughtful post from bytemark on this subject:
(Please read it)

https://blog.bytemark.co.uk/2014/12/31/gnupg-funding-drive
(from Dec. 31, 2014)

Then go on to read this thing:

https://gnupg.org/donate/index.html

As you see they accept all kinds of payment vehicles (and also bitcoin
is one of them)

And now here's the kicker:  This two-person team which they are trying
to get funded, IS NOT FUNDED!

Take a look here:

https://gnupg.org/index.html

Again:

NOT. FUNDED.

And yes, interfaces like Keybase.io _are_ the future (I've been
playing around with it and currently have it in my signature, though I
use a different key block (not keybase) for people to use for to
import in association with my e-mail), because they make it easier for
a larger number of people to access keys either through something like
keybase service where they host keys, or through a CLI where you hold
all that closely.  Merkle tree, blockchain, etc.  But this begins in
my view with a strong froundation, which we have from the work which
was done from Gnupg.  (In fact, Keybase.io, and any business like it
in the future, relies on Gnupg.)  If I was rolling in dough ($$) right
now I would dump a giant fat amount of 86,000 € that they are missing
so that they would be able to get going on the Gnupg second
developer's work right away.

So... enough of the rambling on, can someone who knows someone who has
benefited from this economic ups and downs, please forward this e-mail
on to them and ask them if they'd be willing to contribute to
https://gnupg.org/donate/index.html

I have absolutely zero financial interest in seeing this happen but I
know it would help make a better world.

- -O








Cathal Garvey:
>> How about Pond as email replacement?
> 
> I've looked at Pond long enough to see that it calls upon Tor for
> most of the anonymity heavy-lifting, and that it is clearly
> targeted at technical users. Most of the people in my life who I
> speak privately to are not technical. I don't think trivial UX is
> near in Pond's development roadmap.
> 
>> I'm curious what you (and others here) think about Keybase, which
>> also seems heavily targeted at normal users. There was some
>> discussion here in mid 2014, but Keybase has been tweaked a lot
>> since then. I'm quite impressed with its usability, but I don't
>> have the expertise to properly evaluate its security. I am
>> uncomfortable with the option of uploading private GnuPG keys,
>> and counting on symmetric encryption for securing them. Better I
>> think would be helping users understand how to properly migrate
>> keys between devices, or perhaps to use smartcards.
> 
> Keybase could have been a great way to encourage PGP uptake among
> normal people years ago when things were accepted to be difficult
> universally, but PGP's days are behind us. PGP makes a good way to
> sign code but remains a terrible way to communicate securely,
> because although it's "uncrackable" when used correctly, it's very
> easy to accidentally screw up using PGP on either end of the
> conversation. Also, the lack of PFS ignores parts of the modern
> threat model that were speculative when PGP was created.
> 
> Suffice to say that, even ignoring the issues with Keybase
> encouraging key escrow by "allowing" or encouraging key upload
> (!!!), I don't think it helps. Perhaps as a basis on which to build
> a web-of-trust that can be transposed into newer cryptosystems, but
> the key escrow part makes falsification of trust a real
> possibility.
> 
> Anyway, maybe that's just me.
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=ntrD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 16 01:04:12 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:04:12 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <43090368.ccXnftFsfm@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 17:40:37 shelley at misanthropia.info pisze:
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015, at 04:05 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > Or cats.
> > 
> > Ceiling Cat
> > Basement Cat
> > Catoshi, the patron of low-market altcoins
> 
> Catoshi!  Good one.  Of course, our sabbath would be Caturday, at the
> altar of LongCat.

And for the moral relativists among us that would be Unsigned LongCat.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From list at sysfu.com  Fri Jan 16 10:11:48 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 10:11:48 -0800
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
 <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:48:02 -0800, odinn  
<odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
> And now here's the kicker:  This two-person team which they are trying
> to get funded, IS NOT FUNDED!
>
> Take a look here:
>
> https://gnupg.org/index.html
>
> Again:
>
> NOT. FUNDED.

This line of argument seems to imply that throwing money at GnuPG will  
somehow fix its well-known usability issues. http://secushare.org/PGP




From cypher at cpunk.us  Fri Jan 16 10:02:33 2015
From: cypher at cpunk.us (Cypher)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:02:33 -0600
Subject: Replacing email with XMPP...why not?
In-Reply-To: <20150116175722.GB7630@ctrlc.hu>
References: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us> <20150116175722.GB7630@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <54B95239.9030304@cpunk.us>

On 01/16/2015 11:57 AM, stef wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:31:58AM -0600, Cypher wrote:
>> Thoughts?
> 
> you want to avoid xml based "solutions". langsec should be
> considered from the beginning. also i'm unsure of the
> store-and-forward-properties of xmpp.

Agreed. From running an XMPP server, XMPP does (or can) have store and
forward capabilities but that is something that would need to be
addressed. For maximum security, there needs to be a way for the
messages to be encrypted to a key controlled by only the recipient
while it's sitting on the server. I suppose using PKI could accomplish
that.

Cypher




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Jan 16 14:25:18 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:25:18 -0800
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$> <54B6F026.5090002@virtadpt.net>
 <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <54B98FCE.8020503@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 01/15/2015 05:40 PM, shelley at misanthropia.info wrote:

> Catoshi!  Good one.  Of course, our sabbath would be Caturday, at
> the altar of LongCat.

The altars of Longcat are all rooms devoid of ladders, for Longcat is
Long, and capable of stretching to reach all the high things.  Though
not necessarily the tops of the curtains, those require climbing
(which is much more entertaining).

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

YOUR ROBOTIC SEEKER HAS ENTERED A ROOM THAT IS FILLED WITH A DEADLY
NARCOTIC GAS

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Jan 16 14:25:46 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 14:25:46 -0800
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <43090368.ccXnftFsfm@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <43090368.ccXnftFsfm@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54B98FEA.7090204@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 01/16/2015 01:04 AM, rysiek wrote:

> And for the moral relativists among us that would be Unsigned
> LongCat.

Well played, sapient.  Well played.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

YOUR ROBOTIC SEEKER HAS ENTERED A ROOM THAT IS FILLED WITH A DEADLY
NARCOTIC GAS

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=MVn3
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From loki at obscura.com  Fri Jan 16 15:50:09 2015
From: loki at obscura.com (Lance Cottrell)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 15:50:09 -0800
Subject: Replacing email with XMPP...why not?
In-Reply-To: <20150116221346.A4967EA9FE@snorky.mixmin.net>
References: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
 <20150116221346.A4967EA9FE@snorky.mixmin.net>
Message-ID: <4B723E1C-96A7-4519-A8AF-5F27B71707C2@obscura.com>

Anonymity is much easier and much stronger in a uni-directional store and forward environment. Real time is a killer and creates all kinds of attack paths.

	-Lance

--
Lance Cottrell
loki at obscura.com



> On Jan 16, 2015, at 2:13 PM, StealthMonger <StealthMonger at nym.mixmin.net> wrote:
> 
> Cypher <cypher at cpunk.us> writes:
> 
>> I've been reading a lot about the need to replace email and I'm not
>> quite sure why we're not moving to an XMPP based model.
> 
> Because it's /connection based/ and therefore low latency, so cannot be
> used by an untraceable pseudonym (endpoint IP packet correlation).
> 
> Contrast with email, where the security is /message based/ and can use
> anonymizing remailers having deliberately long, random latency.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> -- StealthMonger
>    Long, random latency is part of the price of Internet anonymity.
> 
> 
> Key: mailto:stealthsuite[..]nym.mixmin.net?subject=send%20stealthmonger-key
> 

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From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan 16 17:02:40 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:02:40 -0700
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
 <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
 <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <54B9B4B0.3070101@riseup.net>

On 01/16/2015 11:11 AM, Seth wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:48:02 -0800, odinn
> <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
>> And now here's the kicker:  This two-person team which they are trying
>> to get funded, IS NOT FUNDED!
>>
>> Take a look here:
>>
>> https://gnupg.org/index.html
>>
>> Again:
>>
>> NOT. FUNDED.
> 
> This line of argument seems to imply that throwing money at GnuPG will
> somehow fix its well-known usability issues. http://secushare.org/PGP

OK, I'll bite :)

| 1. Downgrade Attack: The risk of using it wrong.
...
| The mere existence of an e-mail address in the process is a problem.
...
| 2. The OpenPGP Format: You might as well run around the city naked.
...
| 3. Transaction Data: Mallory knows who you are talking to.

Well, correspondents ought to:
1) always use pseudonyms if they care about attribution;
2) avoid meaningful subject lines; and
3) use VPNs, JonDonym and Tor to obscure network connectivity.

Given that, why care that adversaries see OpenPGP?

| 4. No Forward Secrecy: It makes sense to collect it all.

So what? Just secure your shit properly!

| 5. Cryptogeddon: Time to upgrade cryptography itself?

Smart folk who care about attribution never put anything online that
links their pseudonyms to their real names. Just sayin'. And they rotate
their pseudonyms periodically. So stored messages go stale within a year
or two, tops.

| 6. Federation: Get off the inter-server super-highway.

That's prudent for stuff that matters. But OpenPGP is still good within
the transport layers.

| 7. Discovery: A Web of Trust you can't trust.

I've never used WoT, and tend to agree. WoT is especially impractical
because I don't at all mix meatspace and online activity. I am starting
to like Keybase, however.

I don't worry very much about sharing publicly who my conversation
partners are. I always use pseudonyms, and so do many of my conversation
partners. Sometimes we all use multiple pseudonyms, just for fun :)

| 8. PGP conflates non-repudiation and authentication.

Again, use those pseudonyms!

| 9. Statistical Analysis: Guessing on the size of messages.

Having my pseudonyms profiled doesn't worry me greatly.

| 10. Workflow: Group messaging with PGP is impractical.

Why bother? Just set up a Tor hidden-service forum, or whatever.

| 11. Complexity: Storing a draft in clear text on the server

I use both IMAP and POP, and I've never seen plaintext drafts stored on
the server. I believe that Enigmail's "convenient encryption settings"
(in particular "auto send encrypted") prevent this, as long as you have
the public key of the person whom you're drafting a message to. It's
also prudent to switch to manual mode, and to set "confirm before
sending" to "Always".

| 12. Overhead: DNS and X.509 require so much work.

Who's enslaved? One uses whatever tools are appropriate.

| 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible

This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending on the KeyID,
or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an identity that's multiply
and independently authenticated.

| 14. TL;DR: I don't care. I've got nothing to hide.

I hide in many ways, and don't depend on message encryption ;) My
"preferences, habits and political views" are fragmented among multiple
unlinked personas. How to do that is one of my key soapbox topics ;)

| 15. The Bootstrap Fallacy: But my friends already have e-mail!

Again, it's a tool. But of course it's not the only tool.




From s at ctrlc.hu  Fri Jan 16 09:57:22 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 18:57:22 +0100
Subject: Replacing email with XMPP...why not?
In-Reply-To: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
References: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
Message-ID: <20150116175722.GB7630@ctrlc.hu>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:31:58AM -0600, Cypher wrote:
> Thoughts?

you want to avoid xml based "solutions". langsec should be considered from the
beginning. also i'm unsure of the store-and-forward-properties of xmpp.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From StealthMonger at nym.mixmin.net  Fri Jan 16 14:13:46 2015
From: StealthMonger at nym.mixmin.net (StealthMonger)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:13:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Replacing email with XMPP...why not?
In-Reply-To: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us> (cypher@cpunk.us's message of "Fri,
 16 Jan 2015 11:31:58 -0600")
References: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
Message-ID: <20150116221346.A4967EA9FE@snorky.mixmin.net>

Cypher <cypher at cpunk.us> writes:

> I've been reading a lot about the need to replace email and I'm not
> quite sure why we're not moving to an XMPP based model.

Because it's /connection based/ and therefore low latency, so cannot be
used by an untraceable pseudonym (endpoint IP packet correlation).

Contrast with email, where the security is /message based/ and can use
anonymizing remailers having deliberately long, random latency.


-- 


 -- StealthMonger
    Long, random latency is part of the price of Internet anonymity.


Key: mailto:stealthsuite[..]nym.mixmin.net?subject=send%20stealthmonger-key

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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 16 14:16:17 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:16:17 +0100
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B8D5A9.2090206@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me>
 <54B818F7.9070307@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8D5A9.2090206@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1787840.WkblaVRWtp@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 16 stycznia 2015 09:11:05 odinn pisze:
> (...)
> but you may ask, what about the transitions? new machine? older key
> issues? proper use? getting stronger new key? etc.
> 
> valid questions! which is what I am asking myself right now (since I
> have some old key issues that I am trying to work through and I didn't
> have good answers).
> 
> fortunately, rysiek came to the rescue in a very timely way, and gave
> me permission to republish (rysiek's) statement which appears below:
> rysiek explains:
> GPG Key Transition: http://rys.io/en/147
> Zmieniam klucz GPG: http://rys.io/pl/147

Now hold on a minute, while I appreciate the spotlight, the instructions are 
not really mine, I stole them from Teh Intertubes (well, linked them, rather). 
If somebody finds it useful, great, but I am not the person to credit.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147

P.S.
This footer is now awkward. Damn.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 16 14:19:27 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:19:27 +0100
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
 <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <2207880.jHoTrlyqB6@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 16 stycznia 2015 10:11:48 Seth pisze:
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:48:02 -0800, odinn
> 
> <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
> > And now here's the kicker:  This two-person team which they are trying
> > to get funded, IS NOT FUNDED!
> > 
> > Take a look here:
> > 
> > https://gnupg.org/index.html
> > 
> > Again:
> > 
> > NOT. FUNDED.
> 
> This line of argument seems to imply that throwing money at GnuPG will
> somehow fix its well-known usability issues. http://secushare.org/PGP

Some of those issues are not easily fixable (or at all, because of how e-mail 
works); but some of them are fixable, if only the right incentives show up.

Maybe we could find a way to fund GnuPG/Enigmail/MailPile in a way that would 
incentivise good UI/UX? I don't know... we seem to have a _crowd_ here, maybe 
we could find a way _fund_ such an endaevour?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From ryacko at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 05:26:50 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 05:26:50 -0800
Subject: on money /2 (resend)
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0wkHaM5FtQHfeWxmUBMhuTX0kBWOeHSdsd3sbCrDXmvw@mail.gmail.com>

so....

Bitcoin gift cards?

Blah, all criminals know that gift cards and loadable debit cards are all
the rage for laundering.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 02:44:18 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 05:44:18 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [secu-share] A GNU Internet, the missing videos
In-Reply-To: <20150117001600.GA28477@lo.psyced.org>
References: <20150117001600.GA28477@lo.psyced.org>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-Xw=zsmxX=NGYATmvqWXQgwUXwcD3Qw5qewVuXG4HJ4Q@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: carlo von lynX <lynX at time.to.get.psyced.org>
Date: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:16 PM
Subject: [secu-share] A GNU Internet, the missing videos
To: secu-share at lists.tgbit.net


Since 31c3 has been very interesting in terms of
politics and hacking, but not as much concerning
technologies that are supposed to lead us out of
the broken Internet, here are the missing videos
from the #youbroketheinternet sessions, exploring
the options for a GNU Internet built from scratch.


Routing panel feat. I2P, cjdns, secushare and others:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/congress/2013/workshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Routing-Panel_I2P_GNUnet_Tor_secushare.webm

Sybil-attack resistant mesh routing using GNUnet:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/congress/2013/workshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Mesh-Bart_Polot-GNUnet_Wireless_Mesh_DHT.webm

cjdns, Hyperboria and Project Meshnet:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/congress/2013/workshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Mesh-Caleb_J_Delisle-cjdns-Hyperboria.webm

Mesh networking panel feat. Freifunk, cjdns and GNUnet:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/congress/2013/workshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_Mesh_Routing-Panel-cjdns_freifunk_GNUnet_net2o.webm

NaCl, a Networking and Cryptography library:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/congress/2013/workshops/30c3-WS-en-YBTI_OS-Bernstein_Lange_Schwabe-NaCl_and_TweetNaCl.webm

"We'll make ourselves a GNU one" - YBTI project presentation
    in German at Easterhegg 2014:
        http://cdn.media.ccc.de/events/eh2014/webm/eh14-5808-de-Well_make_ourselves_a_GNU_one_webm.webm
    in English at ThinkTwice 2014:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGxjN-lfr_Y

Enjoy, and keep your mind open for exciting new thinking.


--
            http://youbroketheinternet.org
 ircs://psyced.org/youbroketheinternet

-- secu-share at lists.secushare.org
   https://lists.secushare.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/secu-share




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Jan 16 23:55:50 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 08:55:50 +0100
Subject: Replacing email with XMPP...why not?
In-Reply-To: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
References: <54B94B0E.2090306@cpunk.us>
Message-ID: <18970754.4CNqRHk4zu@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 16 stycznia 2015 11:31:58 Cypher pisze:
> I've been reading a lot about the need to replace email and I'm not
> quite sure why we're not moving to an XMPP based model.

Because these are two completely different beasts, used for two completely 
different things.

Also, if I were to replace e-mail with something, I'd go with something 
serverless. RetroShare is an interesting project, for instance. It needs some 
love, but the direction is right, AFAIK.

Also, one does not simply replace e-mail...

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From electromagnetize at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 07:35:27 2015
From: electromagnetize at gmail.com (brian carroll)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 09:35:27 -0600
Subject: on money /2 (resend)
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0wkHaM5FtQHfeWxmUBMhuTX0kBWOeHSdsd3sbCrDXmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0wkHaM5FtQHfeWxmUBMhuTX0kBWOeHSdsd3sbCrDXmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADhsnxcWvvJAHma7-k4yDtTT+oCSSvbj+85z4B0gAu-1528YYw@mail.gmail.com>

> Bitcoin gift cards?

I don't know know enough to know, though what would actually be gained
in comparison to an existing mainstream credit card (Visa, Am-Ex,
Mastercard) and a Square or other device for point-to-point or
horizontal transfers?  Seemingly, not going through a central system
to exchange money. And would the state itself implement such a system
in terms of a US electronic currency model, or allow an alternative
currency to exist within a context of taxation that could exist
outside centralized banking as mediators.

It seems the issues of routing and sustaining money inside/outside the
banking system involves all the connected issues of financing, loans,
predatory monetary practices that benefit some more than others, and
thus the existing institutionalization of standardized or legitimate
money then is effected by these forces, which if electronic currency
could stay outside of then perhaps would function differently,
autonomously in regards to these controlling if not exploitative
forces, in certain parameters. What is gained by Bitcoin or other
cryptocurrency if outside the banking system: supposedly privacy and
autonomy, perhaps a security gain in certain factors and a loss of
security (guarantees) in others.

If Bitcoin were an electronic currency model enacted by the State, how
would that differ from existing USD in electronic form, except to
provide a monetary system operating outside the global banking
infrastructure.

This is why it appears to have more in common with existing welfare
payment systems (EBT cards) than the existing credit/debit cards,
because those can be parallel systems, both cash payments that allow
access to money and also food support, where the money is only virtual
or electronic (dollar sign) that can be used at a cash register in
exchange for food, yet seemingly is like a stored value or exists in a
private account in a state system of food support accounting. It is to
bring up the issue of parameters or zones where cards may or may not
function, and in different terms, such as prepaid, and how this may be
a particular realm where alternative currencies could exist, or if
implemented by government, could be operational yet outside the
banking system altogether (via same principle, disconnected from money
system, more like barter, in that what if Bitcoin was not tied to USD
and instead food or services.)

Others know lots about these things, though a larger framework may
help consider the options or dynamics involved especially as there is
not a default single approach for any of the issues though
'cryptocurrency' seems to imply a replacement for an existing monetary
system or to become the standard e-currency, and if that is the
premise, how would this relate to the US government using such a
system, inside or outside the operational context of the Federal
Reserve, or in various capacities, or globally. Or is it just against
all this.

(My guess is that Bitcoin is on the inside of these dynamics and is
thoroughly embedded in all of these scenarios, part of a strategic
planning and development experiment, and I would not underestimate the
role of economists to be on the side of humanity in these issues, nor
the government, nor many in banking and finance, despite the existing
gaming of systems. Perhaps it all is leading towards resolving this
electronic currency question in terms of equity, security, privacy,
and grounding of information as a currency model.)




From electromagnetize at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 08:13:00 2015
From: electromagnetize at gmail.com (brian carroll)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:13:00 -0600
Subject: on money /2 (resend) EX.
Message-ID: <CADhsnxcU+T+M2kJNBeKgZ7X1DmgU-EFbS7wCBB1YdfOOpH2sXw@mail.gmail.com>

here is an example of how cryptocurrency could be approached in a
different framework than simply the default 'replace global monetary
standard' via new alternative electronic currency... which has a
good/bad utopian aspect where realism ranges from the potential to the
impossible, and if not differentiating these, could bring about its
own destruction as a model if not streamlining and doing what it is
best at or focusing on its innovative aspects versus trying to be
everything to all people.

In this way what if Bitcoin were applied in specific controlled
contexts or closed ecosystems where its symbolic value as 'symbolic
money' or rather -currency- (which could span data-to-money and vice
versa) could function as or mediate electronic ~banknotes (sans bank,
or state as bank minus the middlemen and middle-management layer) and
function in parallel to the US dollar, outside the system instead of
tied into it. Like an island ecosystem that is self-sustaining in its
own terms and not directly connected to other existing systems beyond
environmental influences, systemic ebbs & flows.

Troy Benjegerdes <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:

> Does this not describe the copyleft and copyfree software? Or maybe
> it describes a world where farmers figure out they can make more
> money by giving away all the food the world needs, and knowing
> when to sell the rest for profit?


What if the food supply and issue of government subsidization of
farming, where money is pad *not to distribute* food, to maintain
market conditions, were instead brought into a parallel system that is
detached from the US dollar as the mediating currency, and that if
farmers can indeed provide all the food necessary, if this were a
closed system or a chain of interactions that could be mediated
(within certain parameters, perhaps not all) where there are barter or
other contracts, say between those connected in a functional ecosystem
or food system ecology, (from chemical & product manufacturing to
grocers and food-based manufacturers) where an alternative currency
like Bitcoin mediated these exchanges in terms of contracts, based on
volume and quality per exchange, which could remove entire volatile
sectors from the existing speculative monetary system and stabilize
these relations, to have a beet farmer trade 100% of their output, and
have grocery stores receive this fresh produce at a much lower cost
(if not at cost, feasibly) and then resell produce this way, perhaps
more like organic coop approaches of bags of vegetables for a fixed
price or as a subscription approach to produce, where it would be
cashed out or mediated as dollars -- or even better, if the USG has
the same symbolic currency, it could be loaded onto EBT or citizen
electronic cards and exchanged for every citizen at the grocery store
(via Bitcoin/other) for what has already been paid for by the
government once already, the citizens then gaining access to food,
instead of paying multiple times (akin to multiple taxation, though
multiple payments as per the standard realm of public-private overlap
and repurchasing scenarios).  What if grocers had certain early-chain
or direct-link inventories (fresh produce infrastructure moving from
farms to stores) and that this was outside the existing money system
and yet everything would be okay, remain balanced otherwise, because
it is a closed loop, and does not require cashing out within that
dynamic. In that an island of interconnections, exchanges, could be
mediated in non-monetary though currency terms, and make fair
equitable trades. Such that perhaps farmers could trade between
themselves this way, or for government services or support via this
same system. And stabilize or regulate markets or livelihoods versus
using middlemen corporations to do this, in terms of US currency which
then is the maximal exploitation of this same chained system, to
global biased markets and dynamics, moving money and power away from
people into concentrated groups for maximal leverage that functions
against people in the system, as a form of subjugation. In other
words, what if bitcoin were Farmcoin, etc. Or foodcoin. And what kind
of systems could function like this, and how would *value* be
determined if it is actually based on information and data, and not
relegated to definition in an ever-fluctuating condition of volatile
/price/, which is chaos compared to a stable ordering of interactions
and fair exchange.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 17 10:22:02 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:22:02 -0700
Subject: Keybase
In-Reply-To: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu>
References: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54BAA84A.1010002@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/17/2015 03:52 AM, rysiek wrote:
> So,
> 
> Mirmir wrote:
>> | 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible
>>
>> This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending on the KeyID,
>> or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an identity that's multiply
>> and independently authenticated.
> 
> I keep hearing more and more about keybase, and I have a problem with it. It's 
> a centralised service, owned and controlled by a single entity; moreover, the 
> keys are tied to online identities controlled by corporate third parties 
> (Twitter, Facebook, et al). I don't see a Diaspora/The Federation support, for 
> instance.

As I understand it, Keybase is an API. The website/service is merely a
demonstration. The developers are aiming for mass adoption, and so
they've targeted the most popular sites. With some coding, arbitrary
sites could be used, with two requirements. First, it must be possible
for users to post persistent signed proofs. Second, it must be possible
for the API to access those signed proofs, in order to verify them.

> My problem with this is two-fold:
> 
> 1. It might allow abuse, esp. MITM attacks. If Keybase becomes a /de facto/ 
> standard of acquiring keys, it seems trivial to me for them to replace a 
> valued target's key with something a LEA would provide.

That's the value of trackers. Those tracking such a comprised target
would see that various public signed proofs are no longer valid for the
target's key on Keybase. The adversary could alter all of the target's
public signed proofs. But even that wouldn't suffice, because trackers
have independent snapshot histories of public proofs. And furthermore,
snapshot histories are embedded in the Bitcoin blockchain.

> 2. It still promotes the closed, walled-gardens. Diaspora or GNU Social 
> support would not be that hard to implement.

Signed proofs could be placed anywhere that's accessible to the API. But
that takes coding, and developers have priorities. One can request.

Anyway, I've created a test identity: https://keybase.io/Proba. Once
I've added enough proofs, and have enough trackers, I plan to mess with
it by replacing the public key held by Keybase, altering some of the
proofs, and so on. Then we can see how that shows up for its trackers,
and for other users. I'll also explore impacts of malicious trackers.
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pRYFxXWOsk5a4vYfVh6CMsLTlH9M7adhv08Vs+wEDuIjDLFgUR6H+u3c8NdWd5w=
=6k0+
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 17 10:27:59 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:27:59 -0700
Subject: on money /2 (resend)
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i0wkHaM5FtQHfeWxmUBMhuTX0kBWOeHSdsd3sbCrDXmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i0wkHaM5FtQHfeWxmUBMhuTX0kBWOeHSdsd3sbCrDXmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54BAA9AF.4050001@riseup.net>

On 01/17/2015 06:26 AM, Ryan Carboni wrote:
> so....
> 
> Bitcoin gift cards?
> 
> Blah, all criminals know that gift cards and loadable debit cards are all
> the rage for laundering.

How statist of you!

Or are you referring to the state as criminals?





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 17 02:35:33 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:35:33 +0100
Subject: Comsec Dream
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zesLco3iFWfh91xUg36x7tTo+PKhgRKTcNbdHaV6_GTNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1YBQoy-0002Nq-Hv@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <20150115230456.GE14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <CAKtE3zesLco3iFWfh91xUg36x7tTo+PKhgRKTcNbdHaV6_GTNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2693943.9GdGxRsQyl@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 20:02:21 Travis Biehn pisze:
> The distinction is crypto is applied. The axioms and rules don't require
> belief or faith - applied crypto has shown time and time again to require
> belief and faith.
> 
> Crypto is opaque - but open.
> 
> DES was once thought to be secure.
> RSA was once thought to be secure.
> PKI was once thought to be secure.

Secure to protect what and from whom?

The threat model changes.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 17 02:52:21 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:52:21 +0100
Subject: Keybase
Message-ID: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu>

So,

Mirmir wrote:
> | 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible
> 
> This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending on the KeyID,
> or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an identity that's multiply
> and independently authenticated.

I keep hearing more and more about keybase, and I have a problem with it. It's 
a centralised service, owned and controlled by a single entity; moreover, the 
keys are tied to online identities controlled by corporate third parties 
(Twitter, Facebook, et al). I don't see a Diaspora/The Federation support, for 
instance.

My problem with this is two-fold:

1. It might allow abuse, esp. MITM attacks. If Keybase becomes a /de facto/ 
standard of acquiring keys, it seems trivial to me for them to replace a 
valued target's key with something a LEA would provide.

2. It still promotes the closed, walled-gardens. Diaspora or GNU Social 
support would not be that hard to implement.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 17 14:12:07 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:12:07 -0700
Subject: Keybase
In-Reply-To: <1625866.9aqJqEUJAd@lapuntu>
References: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu> <54BAA84A.1010002@riseup.net>
 <1625866.9aqJqEUJAd@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54BADE37.9020405@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 01/17/2015 01:34 PM, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia sobota, 17 stycznia 2015 11:22:02 Mirimir pisze:
>> On 01/17/2015 03:52 AM, rysiek wrote:
>>> So,
>>>
>>> Mirmir wrote:
>>>> | 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible
>>>>
>>>> This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending on the KeyID,
>>>> or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an identity that's multiply
>>>> and independently authenticated.
>>>
>>> I keep hearing more and more about keybase, and I have a problem with it.
>>> It's a centralised service, owned and controlled by a single entity;
>>> moreover, the keys are tied to online identities controlled by corporate
>>> third parties (Twitter, Facebook, et al). I don't see a Diaspora/The
>>> Federation support, for instance.
>>
>> As I understand it, Keybase is an API. The website/service is merely a
>> demonstration. The developers are aiming for mass adoption, and so
>> they've targeted the most popular sites. With some coding, arbitrary
>> sites could be used, with two requirements. First, it must be possible
>> for users to post persistent signed proofs. Second, it must be possible
>> for the API to access those signed proofs, in order to verify them.
>>
>>> My problem with this is two-fold:
>>>
>>> 1. It might allow abuse, esp. MITM attacks. If Keybase becomes a /de
>>> facto/
>>> standard of acquiring keys, it seems trivial to me for them to replace a
>>> valued target's key with something a LEA would provide.
>>
>> That's the value of trackers. Those tracking such a comprised target
>> would see that various public signed proofs are no longer valid for the
>> target's key on Keybase. The adversary could alter all of the target's
>> public signed proofs. But even that wouldn't suffice, because trackers
>> have independent snapshot histories of public proofs. And furthermore,
>> snapshot histories are embedded in the Bitcoin blockchain.
> 
> Wait, how/where does Bitcoin come into this? Did I miss it somehow? I admit I 
> didn't dive into keybase increadibly deep, but still...

See <https://keybase.io/docs/server_security> and re the blockchain
<https://keybase.io/docs/server_security/merkle_root_in_bitcoin_blockchain>.

| Every public announcement you make on Keybase is now verifiably
| signed by Keybase and hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain. To be
| specific, all of these:
|
| o announcing your Keybase username and your public key
| o identity proofs (twitter, github, your website, etc.)
| o public bitcoin address announcements
| o public tracking statements
| o revocations of any of these

>>> 2. It still promotes the closed, walled-gardens. Diaspora or GNU Social
>>> support would not be that hard to implement.
>>
>> Signed proofs could be placed anywhere that's accessible to the API. But
>> that takes coding, and developers have priorities. One can request.
> 
> Right.
> 
>> Anyway, I've created a test identity: https://keybase.io/Proba. Once
>> I've added enough proofs, and have enough trackers, I plan to mess with
>> it by replacing the public key held by Keybase, altering some of the
>> proofs, and so on. Then we can see how that shows up for its trackers,
>> and for other users. I'll also explore impacts of malicious trackers.
> 
> Oh, great, I really appreciate that effort. Please keep me posted!

Thanks. If you join, you can play :) I'm <https://keybase.io/mirimir>
and the test account is <https://keybase.io/proba>.
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=1QmD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From list at sysfu.com  Sat Jan 17 15:27:26 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:27:26 -0800
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.xsmrf0f1bgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 14:34:42 -0800, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> President Barack Obama said Friday that police and spies should not
> be locked out of encrypted smartphones and messaging apps...
>
> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/16/obama-sides-with-cameron-in-encryption-fight/
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/01/17/2156204/obama-govt-shouldnt-be-hampered-by-encrypted-communica
> tions

We all knew this was coming. Apex predators never appreciate their prey  
having the ability to communicate (privately!), organize and resist their  
predations.

> American should be in the streets over talk like this.

Taking it to the streets in my observation mostly results in innocent  
people getting viciously attacked by police.

I feel that it would be more effective long term to channel that anger  
into something productive. Something that tangibly tilts the balance of  
power back to the people, such as building out community owned networks,  
wireless or otherwise. [1] Or supporting open phone initiatives like  
Indie. [2] Growing your own food. Getting off the grid. etc. A self  
sufficient population is less easily brought to heel.

[1]  
http://peerproduction.net/issues/issue-6-disruption-and-the-law/peer-reviewed-articles/expanding-the-internet-commons-the-subversive-potential-of-wireless-community-networks/

[2] https://ind.ie/about/manifesto/




From badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com  Sat Jan 17 12:49:49 2015
From: badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com (Badbiosvictim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:49:49 -0500
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>

>From: Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>

As far as "where to get it", here's a copy: 
>https://ngrok.com:61924/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=264659e23e8733b528386eaa6f52d5ef
>
>Cert is self-signed:
>SHA1: 63:9B:E2:FA:D8:A9:66:DE:46:B7:E4:C2:18:47:73:04:C0:12:FE:1F
>SHA256: 
>CF:D2:82:0D:C8:65:CE:EB:2E:3F:36:EC:DA:9E:82:4E:2E:BD:51:19:6A:7E:11:65:50:40:57:9E:B8:79:8D:A2

I apologize for belatedly thanking you for TextSecure download link. Two days ago, I downloaded it despite the browser warning the certificate was not valid: 

"ngrok.com:61924 uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is not trusted because it is self-signed. The certificate is only valid for isadora-amd64 (Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer)"

 I installed TextSecure on my Droid 3 which does have a cellular account. TextSecure works if airplane mode is not on. Turning airplane mode on and wifi on, TextSecure does not work. Yet, description of TextSecure is that it works over wifi, data and/or SMS.

 I installed TextSecure on my Motorola droid 4. I use Droid 4 as a PDA. No cellular account. How can I get TextSecure to work over wifi? 

Thanks.
Badbiosvictim, formerly bluelotus




From list at sysfu.com  Sat Jan 17 15:49:50 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:49:50 -0800
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:49:49 -0800, Badbiosvictim  
<badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com> wrote:

>  I installed TextSecure on my Motorola droid 4. I use Droid 4 as a PDA.  
> No cellular account. How can I get TextSecure to work over wifi?

Do you have an SMS capable phone number that you can register?




From list at sysfu.com  Sat Jan 17 16:14:01 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 16:14:01 -0800
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <54B9B4B0.3070101@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
 <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
 <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <54B9B4B0.3070101@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <op.xsmtlnylbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:02:40 -0800, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> OK, I'll bite :)

I was going to do the point by point rebuttal but frankly it gets  
exhausting and the topic has been beat to death here and on other mailing  
lists.

My closing points are:

A) GnuPG is powerful and effective crypto tool for technically advanced  
users _who also_ have the discipline to practice good Opsec.

B) It's a terrible crypto tool for anyone else, they're going to phuk it  
up.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 14:34:42 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:34:42 -0500
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>

President Barack Obama said Friday that police and spies should not
be locked out of encrypted smartphones and messaging apps...

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/16/obama-sides-with-cameron-in-encryption-fight/
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/01/17/2156204/obama-govt-shouldnt-be-hampered-by-encrypted-communica
tions

American should be in the streets over talk like this.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 17 16:49:00 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:49:00 -0700
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <op.xsmtlnylbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6FE75.3090902@riseup.net>
 <54B7A37B.5010609@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
 <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <54B9B4B0.3070101@riseup.net>
 <op.xsmtlnylbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <54BB02FC.9000104@riseup.net>

On 01/17/2015 05:14 PM, Seth wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:02:40 -0800, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> OK, I'll bite :)
> 
> I was going to do the point by point rebuttal but frankly it gets
> exhausting and the topic has been beat to death here and on other
> mailing lists.

:)

> My closing points are:
> 
> A) GnuPG is powerful and effective crypto tool for technically advanced
> users _who also_ have the discipline to practice good Opsec.

The Internet embodies poor OPSEC :(

> B) It's a terrible crypto tool for anyone else, they're going to phuk it
> up.

*sigh*




From list at sysfu.com  Sat Jan 17 17:51:36 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:51:36 -0800
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <op.xsmx4a1obgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 16:06:25 -0800, Badbiosvictim  
<badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com> wrote:

> Yes. I have a $80 a year plan with page plus cellular on my older Droid  
> 3 phone.

I don't believe you can use utilize that number on your Droid 4 'PDA' with  
Textsecure. If it was a GSM phone maybe you could temporarily swap the  
active SIM card into the Droid 4 just to register the phone number with  
Textsecure. Then go back to Wifi for Textsecure comms, however this would  
require Google Services Framework.

Are you trying to pull all this off without using a Google account?  
Current versions of Textsecure require the GSF to communicate over IP (as  
opposed to SMS). GSF is only obtainable via the Google Play store to the  
best of my knowledge.

If someone knows of a way to install a current version of the Google  
Service Framework, without using the Google Play app, I'd be interested to  
know.

Otherwise you're stuck using older versions of Textsecure that support  
SMS, but again I'm pretty sure that requires an active cellular plan with  
SMS capable telephone number.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 17 17:18:57 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:18:57 -0700
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net>

On 01/17/2015 03:34 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> President Barack Obama said Friday that police and spies should not
> be locked out of encrypted smartphones and messaging apps...
> 
> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/16/obama-sides-with-cameron-in-encryption-fight/
> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/01/17/2156204/obama-govt-shouldnt-be-hampered-by-encrypted-communica
> tions
> 
> American should be in the streets over talk like this.

It was support for Clipper that denied Al Gore the Presidency in 2000.

But whatever, Democrats have zero chance in 2016 ;)





From badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com  Sat Jan 17 16:06:25 2015
From: badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com (Badbiosvictim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 19:06:25 -0500
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>

Yes. I have a $80 a year plan with page plus cellular on my older Droid 3 phone. 

During the installation of TextSecure on Droid 3, TextSecure didn't ask for a cell phone number to register. How to register a number?

On January 17, 2015 6:49:50 PM EST, Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:49:49 -0800, Badbiosvictim  
><badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com> wrote:
>
>>  I installed TextSecure on my Motorola droid 4. I use Droid 4 as a
>PDA.  
>> No cellular account. How can I get TextSecure to work over wifi?
>
>Do you have an SMS capable phone number that you can register?




From badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com  Sat Jan 17 16:13:37 2015
From: badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com (Badbiosvictim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 19:13:37 -0500
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <09795E60-CC6A-4333-A1BD-CAE056ADBF1D@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <09795E60-CC6A-4333-A1BD-CAE056ADBF1D@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <76a530d3-30ea-4fa6-b065-67fec12155d2@email.android.com>

'Data channel' includes wifi?

Your TS version works fine on activated Droid 3 in SMS only mode. Thanks.

On January 17, 2015 4:40:39 PM EST, "Cathal (Phone)" <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
>The way OWS designed TS, it requires Google account and Google Play /
>Apps to use the data channel. This build, at least, will/should work
>with SMS only mode.
>
>Warning, it's an old build. Want up to date builds? Ask moxie why OWS
>only distribute anti-surveillance software builds though a known NSA
>asset.
>
>On 17 January 2015 20:49:49 GMT+00:00, Badbiosvictim
><badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com> wrote:
>>>From: Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>
>>
>>As far as "where to get it", here's a copy: 
>>>https://ngrok.com:61924/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=264659e23e8733b528386eaa6f52d5ef
>>>
>>>Cert is self-signed:
>>>SHA1: 63:9B:E2:FA:D8:A9:66:DE:46:B7:E4:C2:18:47:73:04:C0:12:FE:1F
>>>SHA256: 
>>>CF:D2:82:0D:C8:65:CE:EB:2E:3F:36:EC:DA:9E:82:4E:2E:BD:51:19:6A:7E:11:65:50:40:57:9E:B8:79:8D:A2
>>
>>I apologize for belatedly thanking you for TextSecure download link.
>>Two days ago, I downloaded it despite the browser warning the
>>certificate was not valid: 
>>
>>"ngrok.com:61924 uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate
>>is not trusted because it is self-signed. The certificate is only
>valid
>>for isadora-amd64 (Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer)"
>>
>>I installed TextSecure on my Droid 3 which does have a cellular
>>account. TextSecure works if airplane mode is not on. Turning airplane
>>mode on and wifi on, TextSecure does not work. Yet, description of
>>TextSecure is that it works over wifi, data and/or SMS.
>>
>>I installed TextSecure on my Motorola droid 4. I use Droid 4 as a PDA.
>>No cellular account. How can I get TextSecure to work over wifi? 
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Badbiosvictim, formerly bluelotus




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 17 12:34:56 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 21:34:56 +0100
Subject: Keybase
In-Reply-To: <54BAA84A.1010002@riseup.net>
References: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu> <54BAA84A.1010002@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <1625866.9aqJqEUJAd@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 17 stycznia 2015 11:22:02 Mirimir pisze:
> On 01/17/2015 03:52 AM, rysiek wrote:
> > So,
> > 
> > Mirmir wrote:
> >> | 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible
> >> 
> >> This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending on the KeyID,
> >> or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an identity that's multiply
> >> and independently authenticated.
> > 
> > I keep hearing more and more about keybase, and I have a problem with it.
> > It's a centralised service, owned and controlled by a single entity;
> > moreover, the keys are tied to online identities controlled by corporate
> > third parties (Twitter, Facebook, et al). I don't see a Diaspora/The
> > Federation support, for instance.
> 
> As I understand it, Keybase is an API. The website/service is merely a
> demonstration. The developers are aiming for mass adoption, and so
> they've targeted the most popular sites. With some coding, arbitrary
> sites could be used, with two requirements. First, it must be possible
> for users to post persistent signed proofs. Second, it must be possible
> for the API to access those signed proofs, in order to verify them.
> 
> > My problem with this is two-fold:
> > 
> > 1. It might allow abuse, esp. MITM attacks. If Keybase becomes a /de
> > facto/
> > standard of acquiring keys, it seems trivial to me for them to replace a
> > valued target's key with something a LEA would provide.
> 
> That's the value of trackers. Those tracking such a comprised target
> would see that various public signed proofs are no longer valid for the
> target's key on Keybase. The adversary could alter all of the target's
> public signed proofs. But even that wouldn't suffice, because trackers
> have independent snapshot histories of public proofs. And furthermore,
> snapshot histories are embedded in the Bitcoin blockchain.

Wait, how/where does Bitcoin come into this? Did I miss it somehow? I admit I 
didn't dive into keybase increadibly deep, but still...

> > 2. It still promotes the closed, walled-gardens. Diaspora or GNU Social
> > support would not be that hard to implement.
> 
> Signed proofs could be placed anywhere that's accessible to the API. But
> that takes coding, and developers have priorities. One can request.

Right.

> Anyway, I've created a test identity: https://keybase.io/Proba. Once
> I've added enough proofs, and have enough trackers, I plan to mess with
> it by replacing the public key held by Keybase, altering some of the
> proofs, and so on. Then we can see how that shows up for its trackers,
> and for other users. I'll also explore impacts of malicious trackers.

Oh, great, I really appreciate that effort. Please keep me posted!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sat Jan 17 13:40:39 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 21:40:39 +0000
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <09795E60-CC6A-4333-A1BD-CAE056ADBF1D@cathalgarvey.me>

The way OWS designed TS, it requires Google account and Google Play / Apps to use the data channel. This build, at least, will/should work with SMS only mode.

Warning, it's an old build. Want up to date builds? Ask moxie why OWS only distribute anti-surveillance software builds though a known NSA asset.

On 17 January 2015 20:49:49 GMT+00:00, Badbiosvictim <badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com> wrote:
>>From: Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>
>
>As far as "where to get it", here's a copy: 
>>https://ngrok.com:61924/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=264659e23e8733b528386eaa6f52d5ef
>>
>>Cert is self-signed:
>>SHA1: 63:9B:E2:FA:D8:A9:66:DE:46:B7:E4:C2:18:47:73:04:C0:12:FE:1F
>>SHA256: 
>>CF:D2:82:0D:C8:65:CE:EB:2E:3F:36:EC:DA:9E:82:4E:2E:BD:51:19:6A:7E:11:65:50:40:57:9E:B8:79:8D:A2
>
>I apologize for belatedly thanking you for TextSecure download link.
>Two days ago, I downloaded it despite the browser warning the
>certificate was not valid: 
>
>"ngrok.com:61924 uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate
>is not trusted because it is self-signed. The certificate is only valid
>for isadora-amd64 (Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer)"
>
>I installed TextSecure on my Droid 3 which does have a cellular
>account. TextSecure works if airplane mode is not on. Turning airplane
>mode on and wifi on, TextSecure does not work. Yet, description of
>TextSecure is that it works over wifi, data and/or SMS.
>
>I installed TextSecure on my Motorola droid 4. I use Droid 4 as a PDA.
>No cellular account. How can I get TextSecure to work over wifi? 
>
>Thanks.
>Badbiosvictim, formerly bluelotus

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 23:36:09 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 02:36:09 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>

What of political license / subscription to theory, and actual
politiking like Pirate Party?
Are the various cypherpunk manifesto's serve as actual platform
and/or docs for same?
Who is forming such entities in today? Where are they now?
What are the platform/action?




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Jan 18 13:44:37 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:44:37 -0500
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL (was: Re: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt,
 *Crypt - status?)
In-Reply-To: <1748319.dEIj6q7VDI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748319.dEIj6q7VDI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti289xEZm+otJEDdEKF_3VvCEOt6c5ugZ0Azr0y+WJjcbFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:33 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Facebook's use of OpenSSL is hardly private, as if I were to use Facebook I
> would have to interact with their OpenSSL instance/copy/whatever-you-call-it.

No you're interacting with TLS, an open IETF standard protocol
that cryptographically will either secure or not the line connection
regardless of what's behind it is legit or not. Facebook's public
use of TLS front by OpenSSL library or any other implementation
of TLS protocol front is private license wise (while perhaps
unfortunate bug, market share, or otherwise).




From jesse at jbcrawford.us  Sun Jan 18 16:28:34 2015
From: jesse at jbcrawford.us (Jesse B. Crawford)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 17:28:34 -0700
Subject: Keybase
In-Reply-To: <54BADE37.9020405@riseup.net>
References: <129233355.dY2XzABZFc@lapuntu> <54BAA84A.1010002@riseup.net>
 <1625866.9aqJqEUJAd@lapuntu> <54BADE37.9020405@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54BC4FB2.50806@jbcrawford.us>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I have a Keybase profile at
	https://keybase.io/jcrawfordor
I have several invites available as well if anyone else is interested.

I think of Keybase very positively, it is perhaps not perfect but it's
a big improvement in usability for typical people than the
web-of-trust system. Attaching cryptographic keys to social network
identities matches how most people really use the internet very well.

Perhaps this has already been mentioned, but it's worth pointing out
that the Keybase service (keybase.io) is NOT trusted to verify the
proofs. The keybase command-line tool verifies the proofs
independently itself, preventing the keybase service lying.

That said, I would not advocate uploading your private key to keybase.
There is a huge usability tradeoff surrounding this, and while Keybase
is trying to maintain as much security as possible, I'm not yet
convinced that it is safe to provide the private key to a third party
even if they have zero knowledge (primarily because of problems with
web browser cryptographic implementation).

Jesse B. Crawford
Student, Information Technology
New Mexico Inst. of Mining & Technology

https://jbcrawford.us // jesse at jbcrawford.us
https://cs.nmt.edu/~jcrawford // jcrawford at cs.nmt.edu

On 2015-01-17 15:12, Mirimir wrote:
> On 01/17/2015 01:34 PM, rysiek wrote:
>> Dnia sobota, 17 stycznia 2015 11:22:02 Mirimir pisze:
>>> On 01/17/2015 03:52 AM, rysiek wrote:
>>>> So,
>>>> 
>>>> Mirmir wrote:
>>>>> | 13. Targeted attacks against PGP key ids are possible
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is an advantage of Keybase. Then we're not depending
>>>>> on the KeyID, or even on the fingerprint, but rather on an
>>>>> identity that's multiply and independently authenticated.
>>>> 
>>>> I keep hearing more and more about keybase, and I have a
>>>> problem with it. It's a centralised service, owned and
>>>> controlled by a single entity; moreover, the keys are tied to
>>>> online identities controlled by corporate third parties
>>>> (Twitter, Facebook, et al). I don't see a Diaspora/The 
>>>> Federation support, for instance.
>>> 
>>> As I understand it, Keybase is an API. The website/service is
>>> merely a demonstration. The developers are aiming for mass
>>> adoption, and so they've targeted the most popular sites. With
>>> some coding, arbitrary sites could be used, with two
>>> requirements. First, it must be possible for users to post
>>> persistent signed proofs. Second, it must be possible for the
>>> API to access those signed proofs, in order to verify them.
>>> 
>>>> My problem with this is two-fold:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. It might allow abuse, esp. MITM attacks. If Keybase
>>>> becomes a /de facto/ standard of acquiring keys, it seems
>>>> trivial to me for them to replace a valued target's key with
>>>> something a LEA would provide.
>>> 
>>> That's the value of trackers. Those tracking such a comprised
>>> target would see that various public signed proofs are no
>>> longer valid for the target's key on Keybase. The adversary
>>> could alter all of the target's public signed proofs. But even
>>> that wouldn't suffice, because trackers have independent
>>> snapshot histories of public proofs. And furthermore, snapshot
>>> histories are embedded in the Bitcoin blockchain.
> 
>> Wait, how/where does Bitcoin come into this? Did I miss it
>> somehow? I admit I didn't dive into keybase increadibly deep, but
>> still...
> 
> See <https://keybase.io/docs/server_security> and re the
> blockchain 
> <https://keybase.io/docs/server_security/merkle_root_in_bitcoin_blockchain>.
>
>  | Every public announcement you make on Keybase is now verifiably 
> | signed by Keybase and hashed into the Bitcoin blockchain. To be |
> specific, all of these: | | o announcing your Keybase username and
> your public key | o identity proofs (twitter, github, your website,
> etc.) | o public bitcoin address announcements | o public tracking
> statements | o revocations of any of these
> 
>>>> 2. It still promotes the closed, walled-gardens. Diaspora or
>>>> GNU Social support would not be that hard to implement.
>>> 
>>> Signed proofs could be placed anywhere that's accessible to the
>>> API. But that takes coding, and developers have priorities. One
>>> can request.
> 
>> Right.
> 
>>> Anyway, I've created a test identity: https://keybase.io/Proba.
>>> Once I've added enough proofs, and have enough trackers, I plan
>>> to mess with it by replacing the public key held by Keybase,
>>> altering some of the proofs, and so on. Then we can see how
>>> that shows up for its trackers, and for other users. I'll also
>>> explore impacts of malicious trackers.
> 
>> Oh, great, I really appreciate that effort. Please keep me
>> posted!
> 
> Thanks. If you join, you can play :) I'm
> <https://keybase.io/mirimir> and the test account is
> <https://keybase.io/proba>.
> 
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Version: GnuPG v2

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VpT2A4zVutLHkHUvD7hlxCUKaP+8JtK8EMMuJ1poqrRnmEmRcMNaYlqEuihpFgo=
=42Ig
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Jan 18 12:33:51 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 21:33:51 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 18 stycznia 2015 02:36:09 grarpamp pisze:
> What of political license / subscription to theory, and actual
> politiking like Pirate Party?

Politics breeds compromise, usually. THat's the problem. there are very few 
people that are able to stay in politics yet not compromise and keep their 
integrity.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Sun Jan 18 20:17:20 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 04:17:20 +0000
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

tl;dr ..... or not?

If it's free and open source and not part of what is produced by a
corporation (and is auditable) (and can be held in repositories in a
bunch of different places that can be compared to each other so as to
make sure that the place for public to download isn't just infected
with crap from government), then great!

If it is not free and open source and if it relies in any way on any
corporation and cannot be downloaded directly from github or a similar
repository system, then oh well, you aren't going to be able to rely
on it, because the corporation (in the US and in most places in the
world) isn't going to be able to legally operate and certainly won't
be able to legally distribute to the US without license from the USG.

And that is all, and the EFF can huff and puff but at the end of the
day there will be no large scale uprising because the level of apathy
in the US is at an all time high.  I mean, how many years has EFF been
with Jewel v. NSA in the courts?  Their lawyers might die before the
case gets resolution.

People are kind of excited about CISPA fight (and maybe the mailing
lists that are used to fight CISPA could also be used for fighting
Obama and Cameron on encryption), though I sense that is kind of
wearing thin after so many damn repeats of the same thing. Over and over.

One of the things I suggest doing is just saying screw humanity for a
while.  Put some of our best, most hardcore code, like Gnupg (gpg) and
some of the best stuff, that you could think of (I happen to like
textsecure) - look, I'm sure you could think of all kinds of amazing
things - just examples of really good crypto.  You know, like bitcoin
(BTC) and BCN.  And put all this stuff in as examples of like, an
undersea Voyager 1.  And then send it to the bottom of the ocean.  And
tell it to come back in like 10 years, or 50 years, but to, you know,
check back from a distance first, to make sure that we are not dead
first, to make sure we haven't killed ourselves off or that we haven't
screwed up even more than we have already.

So here is my concept project for an undersea Voyager 1:
https://twitter.com/AnonyOdinn/status/556952326347317248
On Github:
https://github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode
The idea is there is code and DNA kind of mixed together in an
Autonomous Knowledge Node, protected in a robotic hard shell as an
OpenROV, sort of like a little submarine, but it can reproduce in
certain conditions.  And it can then communicate with other species.
It will try to learn things to bring back from the depths to help us
survive, assuming we are still alive when we return.  (And of course
it will bring back the crypto it carried along as well sort of like
the Golden Platter of Voyager 1 or something)

This is kind of along ramble, so I'll just be quiet now.

- -O




Mirimir:
> On 01/17/2015 03:34 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> President Barack Obama said Friday that police and spies should
>> not be locked out of encrypted smartphones and messaging apps...
>> 
>> http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/01/16/obama-sides-with-cameron-in-encryption-fight/
>>
>> 
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/01/17/2156204/obama-govt-shouldnt-be-hampered-by-encrypted-communica
>> tions
>> 
>> American should be in the streets over talk like this.
> 
> It was support for Clipper that denied Al Gore the Presidency in
> 2000.
> 
> But whatever, Democrats have zero chance in 2016 ;)
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Jan 19 06:05:34 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:05:34 +0200
Subject: Feedback about startpage.com?
Message-ID: <20150119140534.GA2524@sivokote.iziade.m$>

https://startpage.com/do/search

Claims to use google and gives proxy option.

Any feedback?

(the number of results for some queries differ from
google, might be country/IP related).




From l at odewijk.nl  Mon Jan 19 08:21:21 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:21:21 +0100
Subject: Feedback about startpage.com?
In-Reply-To: <20150119140534.GA2524@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150119140534.GA2524@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rK0F6h8P7k+1-Rx0MpKmTerjwZULWLott8iCCGS7mbFug@mail.gmail.com>

Default for the Tor project, which is a red flag imho. (single point of
trust is also single point of failure, Tor project is commonly considered
dubious among experts and has large code, lack of independent code
validation and huge government funding. It's offtopic to futher discuss it
here, just why I call it a red flag)

(1) Unless you can validate that they do it safely, they don't. (2) I
cannot validate startpage. Thus, startpage does not do it safely. Q.E.D.

If you disagree with axiom 1, buy a (truly) random box of pills, swallow,
post results (they should cure you even if you didn't know you're sick) (by
your logic, not mine!) (assuming authority is a fallacy, which is debatable
but so often true I'd rather not depend on it)
If you can invalidate 2, please do!

Is it better than just using Google? Yes. Maybe okay is still better than
okay. (Swallow random pills if you're dying and can't improve upon random)

It's also much slower than Google, but at least it's faster than duckduckgo
and actually returns results worth querying for.


2015-01-19 15:05 GMT+01:00 Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>:

> https://startpage.com/do/search
>
> Claims to use google and gives proxy option.
>
> Any feedback?
>
> (the number of results for some queries differ from
> google, might be country/IP related).
>
>
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From s at ctrlc.hu  Mon Jan 19 08:50:58 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 17:50:58 +0100
Subject: Feedback about startpage.com?
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rK0F6h8P7k+1-Rx0MpKmTerjwZULWLott8iCCGS7mbFug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150119140534.GA2524@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAHWD2rK0F6h8P7k+1-Rx0MpKmTerjwZULWLott8iCCGS7mbFug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150119165058.GF7218@ctrlc.hu>

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 05:21:21PM +0100, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:
> It's also much slower than Google, but at least it's faster than duckduckgo
> and actually returns results worth querying for.

if you want to host your own superior search engine (although does proxying
only for image search) use: https://github.com/asciimoo/searx

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 15:46:24 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:46:24 -0500
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net> <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:17 PM, odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
> tl;dr ..... or not?

No, this is historical possibility. Might as well throw in a copy of
Wikipedia too. Just like the seed and genome banks out there
for if/when we fuck it up. Even the cryopreservation wonks. The
whole of human knowledge and existance thing. Humanity
goes in these long cycles of destroy and rebuild, some more
severe and complete than others. And odds of higher completion
increase with inventing more non natural processes over short time
like bioengineering and nukes that have not yet reached long time
evolutionary integration/protection toward natural defence/backoff.

> And that is all, and the EFF can huff and puff but at the end of the
> day there will be no large scale uprising because the level of apathy

It's not just the US. There are world protests, but lasting real success
anywhere in the world against the pro-surveillors and anti-cryptos and
nothing-to-hiders and thought-crimers, seems yet to be determined.

> People are kind of excited about CISPA fight (and maybe the mailing
> lists that are used to fight CISPA could also be used for fighting

That's because they apparently love using the internet for piracy so they
can watch the fucking Simpsons and football and movies and porn and
Beyonce. Portray the issues last above into them not being able to do that
anymore and you might see some riseup activity there. Probably more
than you'd see if you told them their corps/govts/friends were reading
their sexy text messages because they kindof already know that
and don't give a fuck because it's just being watched, not being *taken
away from them*. You have to take away the beer and candy and
gasoline and water and vaporize their cash flow to get a reaction.

> One of the things I suggest doing is just saying screw humanity for a
> while.  Put some of our best, most hardcore code, like Gnupg (gpg) and
> ...
> (BTC) and BCN.  And put all this stuff in as examples of like, an
> undersea Voyager 1.  And then send it to the bottom of the ocean.  And
> tell it to come back in like 10 years, or 50 years, but to, you know,
> check back from a distance first, to make sure that we are not dead
> first, to make sure we haven't killed ourselves off or that we haven't
> screwed up even more than we have already.
> ...
> https://twitter.com/AnonyOdinn/status/556952326347317248
> https://github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode
> The idea is there is code and DNA kind of mixed together in an
> Autonomous Knowledge Node, protected in a robotic hard shell as an
> OpenROV, sort of like a little submarine, but it can reproduce in
> certain conditions.  And it can then communicate with other species.
> It will try to learn things to bring back from the depths to help us
> survive, assuming we are still alive when we return.  (And of course
> it will bring back the crypto it carried along as well sort of like
> the Golden Platter of Voyager 1 or something)
>
> This is kind of along ramble, so I'll just be quiet now.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Jan 19 10:20:49 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 19:20:49 +0100
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL (was: Re: TrueCrypt, GostCrypt,
 *Crypt - status?)
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti289xEZm+otJEDdEKF_3VvCEOt6c5ugZ0Azr0y+WJjcbFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748319.dEIj6q7VDI@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti289xEZm+otJEDdEKF_3VvCEOt6c5ugZ0Azr0y+WJjcbFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23329451.PM0LsYv2cE@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 18 stycznia 2015 16:44:37 grarpamp pisze:
> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:33 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Facebook's use of OpenSSL is hardly private, as if I were to use Facebook
> > I
> > would have to interact with their OpenSSL
> > instance/copy/whatever-you-call-it.
>
> No you're interacting with TLS, an open IETF standard protocol

Let me stop you right here and let's all ponder for a while the notion of 
"interacting with a protocol".

What an interesting ontology you have!

I'll be conservative, though, and keep on claiming that I'm interacting with 
*software that implements* a given protocol.

Although when somebody takes a friend to court over some DDoS or port 
scanning, I'll be sure to remember this gem and use the "he wasn't attacking 
the software, he was only interacting with the *protocol*, Your Honour!" 
defence.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 17:16:04 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:16:04 -0500
Subject: [tor-relays-universities] afs / coda behind tor?
In-Reply-To: <d23ecf59633cee85fff622965c67ce6c@roundcube.lrz.de>
References: <mailman.354.1421713268.3013.tor-relays-universities@lists.torproject.org>
 <d23ecf59633cee85fff622965c67ce6c@roundcube.lrz.de>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti292bYi3Cy-0NysOVaMZ8Sv-Butk1gHZPaHCDUCJ+_qb1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Mueller, Alex
<alex.mueller at lrz.tu-muenchen.de> wrote:
>> has somebody an idea of the possiblity to protect afs / coda server
>> behind tor?

As a Hidden Service? Most anything TCP should be possible,
if you need UDP or to present IP binding and embedded semantics
to applications, you may want to try onioncat (at least for now), or
use a different [anonymity] network that is more IP[v6] friendly
like CJDNS or Phantom or somesuch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAFS
http://www.openafs.org/
https://www.onioncat.org/

As you mentioned filesystems, I'll include a recent thread below
which you may further look into...

========
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Greg Troxel <gdt at ir.bbn.com> wrote:
> ianG <iang at iang.org> writes:
grarpamp wrote:
>> I've come up with a problem that needs a secure cloudy (handwavy) data
>> storage solution.
>>
>> The only think I can think of is Tahoe-LAFS.  I get the feeling that
>> it is the only game in town... but why not ask?  Is there a plausible
>> "competitor" to Tahoe?
>
> Please explain your actual requirements.    Tahoe does well at not
> storing plaintext and redundancy across large numbers of servers.
> However, it doesn't do well at:
>   - mixing storage from different users (accounting)
>   - garbage collection (expiration vs lease renewal)
>   - acting like a posix filesystem (FUSE interface is weak)
>   - speed

You might find something here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaidSafe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_sharing_applications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_P2P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_distributed_file_systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_systems#Distributed_file_systems

I'm looking for something that will run entirely within an
anonymous p2p network, has data redundancy minimums
on the storage automatically handled by the system, some
number of redundant access points, and mounts posix-like
(nfs/zfs/iscsi/smb/cifs) for all participants. At least readonly
for everyone, and readwrite for the owner of any particular
subtree, like AFS.
========




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Mon Jan 19 12:47:44 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:47:44 +0000
Subject: Good ol' BSD vs. GPL
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti289xEZm+otJEDdEKF_3VvCEOt6c5ugZ0Azr0y+WJjcbFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-X78EVUr_DziqrznTR8W9-8TKL1fw5B7phFbO7aPKd=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <2657116.6mg9LyzkaY@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti281tfdbSLKDrz6Hy+=gBbDn6zJeXF9W+G=pKQp232sovQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748319.dEIj6q7VDI@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti289xEZm+otJEDdEKF_3VvCEOt6c5ugZ0Azr0y+WJjcbFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54BD6D70.1020707@cathalgarvey.me>

Very On-topic talk by Bradley Kuhn at Linux.conf.au this month: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ItFjEG3LaA

Still mid-way through it, very philosophical and very good background 
from a thoughtful and self-critical GPL advocate on "why GPL", and 
"should the GPL always be the way".

On 18/01/15 21:44, grarpamp wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 5:33 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>> Facebook's use of OpenSSL is hardly private, as if I were to use Facebook I
>> would have to interact with their OpenSSL instance/copy/whatever-you-call-it.
>
> No you're interacting with TLS, an open IETF standard protocol
> that cryptographically will either secure or not the line connection
> regardless of what's behind it is legit or not. Facebook's public
> use of TLS front by OpenSSL library or any other implementation
> of TLS protocol front is private license wise (while perhaps
> unfortunate bug, market share, or otherwise).
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Mon Jan 19 21:27:51 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (shelley at misanthropia.org)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:27:51 -0800
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <108f4d63ee0193fa5c0583030bd93dc9.squirrel@ruggedinbox.com>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmx4a1obgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <108f4d63ee0193fa5c0583030bd93dc9.squirrel@ruggedinbox.com>
Message-ID: <20150120052737.2FFA1C0001B@frontend1.nyi.internal>

On January 19, 2015 6:45:46 PM badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com wrote:

>> If someone knows of a way to install a current version of the Google
> > Service Framework, without using the Google Play app, I'd be interested 
> to know.

I don't use google-anything on my android phone; I use F-Droid and 
side-load everything else.  I'm sorry if I've missed it, but which version 
of android OS are you running?  Surely one of us can upload the 
corresponding GSF .apk for you?


> >
> > Otherwise you're stuck using older versions of Textsecure that support
> > SMS, but again I'm pretty sure that requires an active cellular plan with
> > SMS capable telephone number.
>
> You are correct. I will use older TextSecure on my activated phone. Works
> perfectly.
>
> On my unactivated "PDA,"&#61185;I will continue to email my contacts
> cellular text address unless I convince my contacts to use peerio or
> chatsecure or subrosa.
>
>





From list at sysfu.com  Tue Jan 20 01:10:17 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:10:17 -0800
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <1511762.augpjxmlFI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511762.augpjxmlFI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <op.xsq7rffdbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:30:40 -0800, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
You keep using that word:
>
> http://copyspeak.org/piracy
>
>
> Language is important. By using the language of the "other side" we  
> partially agree to their terms and fight an uphill battle.

So true. “The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.”  
-Confucious.

Never accept nor internalize the neuro-linguistic slave-speak programming  
of the control freaks.
-- 
Don't find fault, find a remedy. - Henry Ford
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From badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com  Mon Jan 19 17:52:58 2015
From: badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com (badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 02:52:58 +0100
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <op.xsmx4a1obgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmx4a1obgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <108f4d63ee0193fa5c0583030bd93dc9.squirrel@ruggedinbox.com>

 > If someone knows of a way to install a current version of the Google
> Service Framework, without using the Google Play app, I'd be interested to
> know.
>
> Otherwise you're stuck using older versions of Textsecure that support
> SMS, but again I'm pretty sure that requires an active cellular plan with
> SMS capable telephone number.

You are correct. I will use older TextSecure on my activated phone. Works
perfectly.

On my unactivated "PDA,"&#61185;I will continue to email my contacts
cellular text address unless I convince my contacts to use peerio or
chatsecure or subrosa.





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 00:56:02 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 03:56:02 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 3:33 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia niedziela, 18 stycznia 2015 02:36:09 grarpamp pisze:
>> What of political license / subscription to theory, and actual
>> politiking like Pirate Party?
>
> Politics breeds compromise, usually. THat's the problem. there are very few
> people that are able to stay in politics yet not compromise and keep their
> integrity.

Yes. However it would at the same time be effectively true to say
that there are no electeds anywhere holding some cypherpunk knowledge
and politik as part of their internal thought base, therefore no chance
to espouse and inject that even if under compromise.
ie: look how many elected truly 'get' computers or the internet.
Or court in DPR case that has to struggle with basic stuff.

Cypherpunks for elected reps! Where's the retired cypherpunks
anyways? We have a job for you...




From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Jan 19 20:13:15 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 04:13:15 +0000
Subject: Gnupg (gpg) [was Re: Pond and Keybase [was peerio.com]]
In-Reply-To: <2207880.jHoTrlyqB6@lapuntu>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B8DE52.4080901@riseup.net>
 <op.xskh5ydebgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <2207880.jHoTrlyqB6@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54BDD5DB.8060501@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512


rysiek:
> Dnia piątek, 16 stycznia 2015 10:11:48 Seth pisze:
>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 01:48:02 -0800, odinn
>> 
>> <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> And now here's the kicker:  This two-person team which they are
>>> trying to get funded, IS NOT FUNDED!
>>> 
>>> Take a look here:
>>> 
>>> https://gnupg.org/index.html
>>> 
>>> Again:
>>> 
>>> NOT. FUNDED.
>> 
>> This line of argument seems to imply that throwing money at GnuPG
>> will somehow fix its well-known usability issues.
>> http://secushare.org/PGP
> 
> Some of those issues are not easily fixable (or at all, because of
> how e-mail works); but some of them are fixable, if only the right
> incentives show up.

Yep.

> 
> Maybe we could find a way to fund GnuPG/Enigmail/MailPile in a way
> that would incentivise good UI/UX? I don't know... we seem to have
> a _crowd_ here, maybe we could find a way _fund_ such an
> endaevour?

If not from someone listening to this list, then from where?  It seems
ridiculous that it is not already funded given the threats to
encryption around the world.  Obama. Cameron. Putin.  Belafuckingrus.

Suggestions are welcome.  I would really rather see
https://gnupg.org/index.html funded than send a robot into the ocean
as we bomb ourselves into the abyss with unfunded programmers' last
words to the human race being, "I told you so" and the last noises
humanity makes being a few plaintive cries and the clinking of wine
glasses.  We really need to do better as a species.

github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode



> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 02:17:25 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 05:17:25 -0500
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <1511762.augpjxmlFI@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <1511762.augpjxmlFI@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-3eJKAY=1knLqN3HbyntuS7fDJC8vJBM0F88K_Q6EhgQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:30 AM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> http://copyspeak.org/piracy
> Language is important. By using the language of the "other side" we
> partially agree to their terms and fight an uphill battle.

People often fight the same battles in different ways, and
sometimes if focus/wait on words the grater point may be
blur/miss, even up to repress themselves and any flanking
contribution to battles. Here are words on same battles...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 02:45:00 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 05:45:00 -0500
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <54BE097D.9010708@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net> <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BE097D.9010708@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-X=3sRRuByh+d+GuHXPksxmGxcDaTsdtjScSS_Ct6kiA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:53 AM, odinn <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
> As stated in the github on ImmortalCode, I'm totally down for
> contributors,
>
> https://github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode
> ...
> also due to the complexity of merging Turritopsis dohrnii DNA with
> Open Worm DNA (in biological form, a Caenorhabditis Elegans, which has
> 302 neurons and 959 cells), as well as inserting a "human signal" in
> the form of a tiny segment of human DNA into the modified T. dohrnii

This is interesting life form and potential applications and
threads of thought.

> as well before protecting the creature within a modified OpenROV to
> help protect it and ensure its safe return to land. A significant

We must recall... the tech to build and hide the Ark usually implies
the memory and ability to find, maintain, covet, wager for, or destroy
the Ark before you lose such memory and ability. It is very hard to
hide a thing from oneself, particularly when under need or duress.
Agreed, these class of problem is interesting and worth solving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_of_the_Long_Now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain_nuclear_waste_repository
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence




From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Jan 19 23:07:42 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 07:07:42 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <54BDFEBE.2030408@riseup.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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no, peerio, problematic due to, in part,

1) third party broad spectrum surveillance from cromnibus.
(kind of a serious problem for anything that involves initial setup or
later login through website actually)
 See Title III, Subtitle A, Section 309
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr4681enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr4681enr.pdf

this is mitigated in part for such services where keys are not hosted
by the service (e.g. w/ keybase you can refuse to have stuff hosted on
keybase, and can (if you wish) do commands only from CLI after
deciding to host keys on your own machine, but assuming you log in
through web-app / website, then you end up subject to this third party
stuff mentioned above)

2) If I understand this correctly with peerio (and I don't possibly,
since I am unlikely to ever use it as it appears to be a centralized
service), but:
"Instead of dealing with key storage, Peerio generates a user’s
private key from his passphrase every time he or she logs in."
from:
http://www.wired.com/2015/01/peerio-free-encryption-app/
That may or may not accurately describe the process, however.

3) Free, or not?
Apparently there is a paid option, and a free option initially at
launch, there is a open source repository on github.  To the extent
that the crypto is tied to a company (kind of assumed, if there is a
paid option and there is an LLC or something like that), then the
corporation is vulnerable to being shut down or at the very least
"conditioned" ~ being told what to do when "crypto licenses" come into
play, which already exist in Russia, for example, are anticipated in
the UK (see also Belarus, where the Info Minister thinks that the
Internet exists to "serve the Fatherland"), and in the US, where Obama
is developing a really warm friendship with Cameron on the anti-crypto
front.

Frankly I am just going to stay far away as I can from anything that
involves this kind of web-based model.  There is too much compromise
involved and too much insecurity.

Cathal Garvey:
>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some
>> mix of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for
>> anonymity vs speed). And using devices with removable local
>> storage, there would be no traces to be inspected by
>> adversaries.
> 
> Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with 
> real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is
> therefore a step up in security for me even if I continue to go by
> my usual name and use my usual IPs.
> 
> If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over
> regular email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a
> significant threat to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when
> setting up a peerio account (no longer required after setup,
> probably a throwback to email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact
> discovery by known email address), then use through Tor (do
> research whether websockets are tor-safe?).
> 
>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for
>> example?
> 
> Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas
> Peerio seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client
> email. It's down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and
> a nice UI.
> 
> As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who 
> interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better,
> more secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels
> at making crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding
> a significant privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".
> 
> 
> On 14/01/15 21:52, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 01/14/2015 01:01 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>> Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements
>>> from a US company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to
>>> jail over an NSL.
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>>> What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in,
>>> probably what their username/keyID is, and how much they're
>>> talking to the server.
>>> 
>>> Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential
>>> exists for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs
>>> it seems the server maintains an entry for which user is
>>> allowed to access which encrypted files, and therefore reveals
>>> to an observer who's the recipient.
>>> 
>>> So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard
>>> than email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed
>>> and unless you set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of
>>> private keys even on your computer, so it's also quite secure
>>> when crossing borders.
>> 
>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some
>> mix of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for
>> anonymity vs speed). And using devices with removable local
>> storage, there would be no traces to be inspected by
>> adversaries.
>> 
>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for
>> example?
>> 
>>> Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant
>>> clients, where you can delete files from the server including
>>> copies sent to clients. Obviously if the attached files are
>>> downloaded from the system, this can't reach them, but it will
>>> destroy any "authenticated" copies of the messages from the
>>> server, if it works (you're trusting the server). OPSEC wise,
>>> this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up after
>>> yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end
>>> of a conversation to a minimum.
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net  Mon Jan 19 23:53:33 2015
From: odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net (odinn)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 07:53:33 +0000
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BB0A01.2050809@riseup.net> <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54BE097D.9010708@riseup.net>

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Hash: SHA512



grarpamp:
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 11:17 PM, odinn
> <odinn.cyberguerrilla at riseup.net> wrote:
>> tl;dr ..... or not?
> 
> No, this is historical possibility. Might as well throw in a copy
> of Wikipedia too. Just like the seed and genome banks out there for
> if/when we fuck it up. Even the cryopreservation wonks. The whole
> of human knowledge and existance thing. Humanity goes in these long
> cycles of destroy and rebuild, some more severe and complete than
> others. And odds of higher completion increase with inventing more
> non natural processes over short time like bioengineering and nukes
> that have not yet reached long time evolutionary
> integration/protection toward natural defence/backoff.


Yeah.

> 
>> And that is all, and the EFF can huff and puff but at the end of
>> the day there will be no large scale uprising because the level
>> of apathy
> 
> It's not just the US. There are world protests, but lasting real
> success anywhere in the world against the pro-surveillors and
> anti-cryptos and nothing-to-hiders and thought-crimers, seems yet
> to be determined.
> 
>> People are kind of excited about CISPA fight (and maybe the
>> mailing lists that are used to fight CISPA could also be used for
>> fighting
> 
> That's because they apparently love using the internet for piracy
> so they can watch the fucking Simpsons and football and movies and
> porn and Beyonce. Portray the issues last above into them not being
> able to do that anymore and you might see some riseup activity
> there. Probably more than you'd see if you told them their
> corps/govts/friends were reading their sexy text messages because
> they kindof already know that and don't give a fuck because it's
> just being watched, not being *taken away from them*. You have to
> take away the beer and candy and gasoline and water and vaporize
> their cash flow to get a reaction.


As stated in the github on ImmortalCode, I'm totally down for
contributors,

https://github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode

And, I haven't set up a mechanism to fund this, but I know from
memory, an OpenROV to ensconce it in costs not much ~ though the
polymerase chain reaction stuff, DNA work, crypto, seed and genome
bank you want to pack in, would certainly cost more than jut the
OpenROV machinery, but actually the overall project is low cost by the
time you are done with the thing. Greater difficulty would be to
determine how to ensure it would reproduce itself at depth, tougher
than just producing a wandering rover sort of thing, for sure (partly
due to that we don't know what happens in most parts of the deep), and
also due to the complexity of merging Turritopsis dohrnii DNA with
Open Worm DNA (in biological form, a Caenorhabditis Elegans, which has
302 neurons and 959 cells), as well as inserting a "human signal" in
the form of a tiny segment of human DNA into the modified T. dohrnii
as well before protecting the creature within a modified OpenROV to
help protect it and ensure its safe return to land. A significant
amount of initial design would be necessary to determine what
equipment and sensors it would have so that it would run with in
tandem with knowledge nodes that would enable it to share knowledge
between species across vast areas of the ocean without human
intervention.  That's the general idea, anyway.

I'm open to it.  I'll set up a donation address soon and put it on the
readme page.

- -O


> 
>> One of the things I suggest doing is just saying screw humanity
>> for a while.  Put some of our best, most hardcore code, like
>> Gnupg (gpg) and ... (BTC) and BCN.  And put all this stuff in as
>> examples of like, an undersea Voyager 1.  And then send it to the
>> bottom of the ocean.  And tell it to come back in like 10 years,
>> or 50 years, but to, you know, check back from a distance first,
>> to make sure that we are not dead first, to make sure we haven't
>> killed ourselves off or that we haven't screwed up even more than
>> we have already. ... 
>> https://twitter.com/AnonyOdinn/status/556952326347317248 
>> https://github.com/abisprotocol/ImmortalCode The idea is there is
>> code and DNA kind of mixed together in an Autonomous Knowledge
>> Node, protected in a robotic hard shell as an OpenROV, sort of
>> like a little submarine, but it can reproduce in certain
>> conditions.  And it can then communicate with other species. It
>> will try to learn things to bring back from the depths to help
>> us survive, assuming we are still alive when we return.  (And of
>> course it will bring back the crypto it carried along as well
>> sort of like the Golden Platter of Voyager 1 or something)
>> 
>> This is kind of along ramble, so I'll just be quiet now.
> 

- -- 
http://abis.io ~
"a protocol concept to enable decentralization
and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
https://keybase.io/odinn
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Mon Jan 19 23:30:40 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:30:40 +0100
Subject: Obama joins against crypto aka freedom
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_QKRyG4-4NjSMCDETaMrQhLh=Ov6=_s8J0AefxW93YPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <54BC8550.5080505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29WZm2tnqC-C+Bd0MeTDF1c_RfFYGTMbdfWdBa_mV-=Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1511762.augpjxmlFI@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 19 stycznia 2015 18:46:24 grarpamp pisze:
> > People are kind of excited about CISPA fight (and maybe the mailing
> > lists that are used to fight CISPA could also be used for fighting
> 
> That's because they apparently love using the internet for piracy

You keep using that word:
http://copyspeak.org/piracy

Language is important. By using the language of the "other side" we 
partially agree to their terms and fight an uphill battle.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Tue Jan 20 00:39:50 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:39:50 +0000
Subject: peerio.com
In-Reply-To: <54BDFEBE.2030408@riseup.net>
References: <54B67B98.6050608@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6B639.4030001@riseup.net>
 <54B6C45D.1020103@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6C856.1040905@aestetix.com>
 <54B6CB0D.1050706@cathalgarvey.me> <54B6E500.30400@riseup.net>
 <54B6E908.9010509@cathalgarvey.me> <54BDFEBE.2030408@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54BE1456.8050207@cathalgarvey.me>

 > 1) third party broad spectrum surveillance from cromnibus.

Metadata wise this is a real problem with the system as currently 
envisaged, but would frankly apply to any hosted-ciphertext platform.

 > "Instead of dealing with key storage, Peerio generates a user’s
 > private key from his passphrase every time he or she logs in."
 > from:
 > http://www.wired.com/2015/01/peerio-free-encryption-app/
 > That may or may not accurately describe the process, however.

This is correct; Peerio uses MiniLock under the hood for crypto, and 
private keys for minilock are generated deterministically; when you "log 
out" the key is not stored permanently (although JS can't wipe RAM so a 
closer-to-metal client would be nice).

 > 3) Free, or not?
 > Apparently there is a paid option, and a free option initially at
 > launch, there is a open source repository on github.  To the extent
 > that the crypto is tied to a company (kind of assumed, if there is a
 > paid option and there is an LLC or something like that), then the
 > corporation is vulnerable to being shut down or at the very least
 > "conditioned" ~ being told what to do when "crypto licenses" come

They're in free beta, my understanding is they'll charge for storage. 
There's not much that can be done to wind back the crypto as it's all 
client-side, and if their server were shut down, as I've mentioned 
before, the server behaviour is all documented on Github.

One useful way to look at this: GPG is what most recommend for crypto, 
but it's metadata rich and requires usually closed platforms to 
distribute ciphertexts (you may not use Yahooglesoft but your recipients 
will usually). In recent discussions on this list, the use of a 
centralised key distribution *company*, keybase, has also been accepted 
to some extent (though I'm not too happy..).

miniLock is designed as a spiritual descendent of PGP with many use-case 
improvements and a much simpler threat model. You can use miniLock 
instead of GPG across email, and it will leak less metadata than GPG by 
virtue of using ephemeral keys that don't directly link a message to its 
sender or recipients.

Peerio is like Gmail plus Keybase for miniLock; it serves exactly those 
purposes. We would all (me emphatically included) rather if it ran on a 
store/forward PGP mixnet, provided it retained good UX to appeal to the 
masses, but right now, it's a centralised service that hides the content 
and format of communications while unavoidably having total access to 
the metadata of from who, to whom, and when.

So yea, centralised and closed ain't good. They are the warts I'd like 
to see fixed with a federated and/or mixed backend. But the frontend is 
just as open as GPG is, and we already generally endorse the use of open 
front-ends to work around closed back-ends.

I may be motivated soon to re-implement miniLock in Go as a learning 
excercise (still a Golang noob here), in which case it could be a short 
hop from there to a server/client implementation for Peerio, too. But, 
I'm not committed to that yet and have written not an `iota` of code 
yet, so by all means beat me to it.

On 20/01/15 07:07, odinn wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> no, peerio, problematic due to, in part,
>
> 1) third party broad spectrum surveillance from cromnibus.
> (kind of a serious problem for anything that involves initial setup or
> later login through website actually)
>   See Title III, Subtitle A, Section 309
> http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr4681enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr4681enr.pdf
>
> this is mitigated in part for such services where keys are not hosted
> by the service (e.g. w/ keybase you can refuse to have stuff hosted on
> keybase, and can (if you wish) do commands only from CLI after
> deciding to host keys on your own machine, but assuming you log in
> through web-app / website, then you end up subject to this third party
> stuff mentioned above)
>
> 2) If I understand this correctly with peerio (and I don't possibly,
> since I am unlikely to ever use it as it appears to be a centralized
> service), but:
> "Instead of dealing with key storage, Peerio generates a user’s
> private key from his passphrase every time he or she logs in."
> from:
> http://www.wired.com/2015/01/peerio-free-encryption-app/
> That may or may not accurately describe the process, however.
>
> 3) Free, or not?
> Apparently there is a paid option, and a free option initially at
> launch, there is a open source repository on github.  To the extent
> that the crypto is tied to a company (kind of assumed, if there is a
> paid option and there is an LLC or something like that), then the
> corporation is vulnerable to being shut down or at the very least
> "conditioned" ~ being told what to do when "crypto licenses" come into
> play, which already exist in Russia, for example, are anticipated in
> the UK (see also Belarus, where the Info Minister thinks that the
> Internet exists to "serve the Fatherland"), and in the US, where Obama
> is developing a really warm friendship with Cameron on the anti-crypto
> front.
>
> Frankly I am just going to stay far away as I can from anything that
> involves this kind of web-based model.  There is too much compromise
> involved and too much insecurity.
>
> Cathal Garvey:
>>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some
>>> mix of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for
>>> anonymity vs speed). And using devices with removable local
>>> storage, there would be no traces to be inspected by
>>> adversaries.
>>
>> Well, I use my real name in most places and communicate a lot with
>> real-world friends and family by email, su using Peerio is
>> therefore a step up in security for me even if I continue to go by
>> my usual name and use my usual IPs.
>>
>> If you need hard anonymity, this is only a marginal gain over
>> regular email because metadata (when, who, how, where) is a
>> significant threat to anonymity. So yea, use a burner email when
>> setting up a peerio account (no longer required after setup,
>> probably a throwback to email-as-salt in miniLock plus contact
>> discovery by known email address), then use through Tor (do
>> research whether websockets are tor-safe?).
>>
>>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for
>>> example?
>>
>> Spideroak appears to be more about file storage and sync, whereas
>> Peerio seems to me to simply be a better approach to server:client
>> email. It's down to the bone: message-passing with attachments, and
>> a nice UI.
>>
>> As a crypto-app, it's targeted at the mainstream, and people who
>> interact with the mainstream. People on this list will have better,
>> more secure ways of communicating, but Nadim (to his credit) excels
>> at making crypto-apps that can appeal to normal users while adding
>> a significant privacy. It's an easier sell from "us" to "them".
>>
>>
>> On 14/01/15 21:52, Mirimir wrote:
>>> On 01/14/2015 01:01 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>>> Well, anyone with a brain knows they do, and that statements
>>>> from a US company are meaningless because nobody wants to go to
>>>> jail over an NSL.
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>> What a top-level observer can see (AFAIK) is who's logged in,
>>>> probably what their username/keyID is, and how much they're
>>>> talking to the server.
>>>>
>>>> Because peerio uses miniLock formatted messages, the potential
>>>> exists for minimal-knowledge service, but from the github docs
>>>> it seems the server maintains an entry for which user is
>>>> allowed to access which encrypted files, and therefore reveals
>>>> to an observer who's the recipient.
>>>>
>>>> So, it's a metadata-rich service, little better in that regard
>>>> than email.. although the encryption is pretty well designed
>>>> and unless you set up a "PIN" there's no permanent storage of
>>>> private keys even on your computer, so it's also quite secure
>>>> when crossing borders.
>>>
>>> So it would be prudent to use pseudonyms, and to access via some
>>> mix of VPN(s), JonDonym and Tor (according to ones need for
>>> anonymity vs speed). And using devices with removable local
>>> storage, there would be no traces to be inspected by
>>> adversaries.
>>>
>>> Cool. But still, how is peerio more secure spideroak, for
>>> example?
>>>
>>>> Also, there is a feature that clearly relies on compliant
>>>> clients, where you can delete files from the server including
>>>> copies sent to clients. Obviously if the attached files are
>>>> downloaded from the system, this can't reach them, but it will
>>>> destroy any "authenticated" copies of the messages from the
>>>> server, if it works (you're trusting the server). OPSEC wise,
>>>> this is a nice feature because it means you can clean up after
>>>> yourself and keep the authenticated-data-at-rest on either end
>>>> of a conversation to a minimum.
>>
>
> - --
> http://abis.io ~
> "a protocol concept to enable decentralization
> and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good"
> https://keybase.io/odinn
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 11:49:06 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 14:49:06 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <2014307.nsHC9fJGMD@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2014307.nsHC9fJGMD@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29T+kUgVJ9HPDtBT7=NJM98vomaOi71zCFHT7uX9bEXQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:33 AM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> have a look at Julia Reda in the European Parliament; Pirate Party (not a huge
> fan of the Pirates, but still, closest to Cypherpunks as you can get right
> now). Before there was Amelia Andersdotter.
> Sometimes all you need is to look around a bit.

Yes and I did say effectively as in a couple MPs may be
of muted influence... if you put 2 pro voices, 8 moderate voices
and 90 antis in a room (or any other best conceivable odds
at internal psyche on fringe issues like crypto rights) you're
unlikely to get much done other than arduously slow education.
On the other hand if getting on the ballot with a new platform is
relatively easy you can flood that with candidates and see what
happens. Either way, good thing is that we actually are now
nearing a point where odds of an elected having been exposed
to computers as an innate user and even some of these issues[1]
their whole life are getting better. Due to this maybe in another 10
years there will be an inflection and it'll just happen. Till
then we need more people strategically moving in, ie...
https://freestateproject.org/
Just know that the other side is moving theirs in too so you
have to beat the race. Right now is a good time to do it
because the only ones really steeped in these issues are
the original internet users (or the young github/twitter activist
generation), you wait and will get washed out by the general
masses coming online behind you as future candidates, then
your trusted voice "hey this MP knows CPU's, lets ask her" is
dimished before you can steer any 10/20/50 year guidance into
things.

[1] Like having personally used bittorrent, stumbled across
github, maybe followed a link to the EFF, etc... actual knowledge
beyond consumer use of internet.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 20 08:33:18 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:33:18 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2014307.nsHC9fJGMD@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 20 stycznia 2015 03:56:02 grarpamp pisze:
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 3:33 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia niedziela, 18 stycznia 2015 02:36:09 grarpamp pisze:
> >> What of political license / subscription to theory, and actual
> >> politiking like Pirate Party?
> > 
> > Politics breeds compromise, usually. THat's the problem. there are very
> > few
> > people that are able to stay in politics yet not compromise and keep their
> > integrity.
> 
> Yes. However it would at the same time be effectively true to say
> that there are no electeds anywhere holding some cypherpunk knowledge
> and politik as part of their internal thought base, therefore no chance
> to espouse and inject that even if under compromise.
> ie: look how many elected truly 'get' computers or the internet.
> Or court in DPR case that has to struggle with basic stuff.

have a look at Julia Reda in the European Parliament; Pirate Party (not a huge 
fan of the Pirates, but still, closest to Cypherpunks as you can get right 
now). Before there was Amelia Andersdotter.

Sometimes all you need is to look around a bit.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 15:42:55 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:42:55 -0500
Subject: FBI To Hack (and Radar Raid) You If Connected To TOR Or a VPN
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_9Qc+nhPOCJj7g9m=nPO=KznT_KT1Lzptz55=mh-UzYA@mail.gmail.com>

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/1540241/fbi-seeks-to-legally-hack-you-if-youre-connected-to-tor-or-a-vpn
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/15/01/20/1746241/police-nation-wide-use-wall-penetrating-radars-to-peer-into-homes




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Jan 20 12:36:50 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:36:50 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29T+kUgVJ9HPDtBT7=NJM98vomaOi71zCFHT7uX9bEXQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2014307.nsHC9fJGMD@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti29T+kUgVJ9HPDtBT7=NJM98vomaOi71zCFHT7uX9bEXQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1507150.8oNsLH3MgL@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 20 stycznia 2015 14:49:06 grarpamp pisze:
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:33 AM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > have a look at Julia Reda in the European Parliament; Pirate Party (not a
> > huge fan of the Pirates, but still, closest to Cypherpunks as you can get
> > right now). Before there was Amelia Andersdotter.
> > Sometimes all you need is to look around a bit.
> 
> Yes and I did say effectively as in a couple MPs may be
> of muted influence... if you put 2 pro voices, 8 moderate voices
> and 90 antis in a room (or any other best conceivable odds
> at internal psyche on fringe issues like crypto rights) you're
> unlikely to get much done other than arduously slow education.

That's one of the reasons ACTA got killed in the EU. Amelia Andersdotter, 
among a few others, was doing an amazing job in the EuroParliament around this 
topic.

Do not underestimate the power of a few well-motivated free radicals.

> On the other hand if getting on the ballot with a new platform is
> relatively easy you can flood that with candidates and see what
> happens.

Go for it.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Jan 21 03:16:03 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 11:16:03 +0000
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <1507150.8oNsLH3MgL@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2014307.nsHC9fJGMD@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti29T+kUgVJ9HPDtBT7=NJM98vomaOi71zCFHT7uX9bEXQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1507150.8oNsLH3MgL@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54BF8A73.9090807@cathalgarvey.me>

 > That's one of the reasons ACTA got killed in the EU. Amelia
 > Andersdotter, among a few others, was doing an amazing job in
 > the EuroParliament around this topic.

Indeed, the Pirates are seriously punching above their weight in terms 
of influence in EU. So much so that the other "mainstream" parties have 
started adopting pirate policies to greater/lesser extents; this 
actually lead to a drop in pirate votes, but on balance it's a good sign.

Now, Julia Reda is in charge of the draft proposals for copyright reform 
in the EU. They put a pirate in charge of that. And, she's done broad 
consultations through net and otherwise, she's publicised every visit 
from lobbyists, and she's released an evidence-heavy report with 
recommendations for serious reform; not the hardcore pirate outcome, but 
something no other kind of EU politician would have come out with.

Amelia and Julia are rockstars. I've been waiting and poking for a 
Pirate Party in Ireland to form so I can try and send more quality MEPs 
over to Brussels but we always lag behind on my island. :)

On 20/01/15 20:36, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 20 stycznia 2015 14:49:06 grarpamp pisze:
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:33 AM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
>>> have a look at Julia Reda in the European Parliament; Pirate Party (not a
>>> huge fan of the Pirates, but still, closest to Cypherpunks as you can get
>>> right now). Before there was Amelia Andersdotter.
>>> Sometimes all you need is to look around a bit.
>>
>> Yes and I did say effectively as in a couple MPs may be
>> of muted influence... if you put 2 pro voices, 8 moderate voices
>> and 90 antis in a room (or any other best conceivable odds
>> at internal psyche on fringe issues like crypto rights) you're
>> unlikely to get much done other than arduously slow education.
>
> That's one of the reasons ACTA got killed in the EU. Amelia Andersdotter,
> among a few others, was doing an amazing job in the EuroParliament around this
> topic.
>
> Do not underestimate the power of a few well-motivated free radicals.
>
>> On the other hand if getting on the ballot with a new platform is
>> relatively easy you can flood that with candidates and see what
>> happens.
>
> Go for it.
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 21 11:38:51 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 16:38:51 -0300
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <56882091.3orcsWcKjX@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1507150.8oNsLH3MgL@lapuntu> <54BF8A73.9090807@cathalgarvey.me>
 <56882091.3orcsWcKjX@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54bfffb2.0170e00a.46cf.ffffa8a2@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 20:09:46 +0100
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:


> but I think that even a small positive change in the
> copyright regime in the EU would be a huge step forward. 


	But it isn't. Small 'reforms' are one of the fundamental pilars
	of conservatism. You are playing into their hands. 


> And there is
> no way we're going to make any large changes, not with IFPI, ZAiKS
> and other "MAFIAA"'s of the EU.
> 
> > Amelia and Julia are rockstars. I've been waiting and poking for a
> > Pirate Party in Ireland to form so I can try and send more quality
> > MEPs over to Brussels but we always lag behind on my island. :)
> 
> Sadly, the Polish Pirate Party is a joke:
> http://rys.io/en/119
> 
> So be careful what you wish for.
> 




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Jan 21 08:25:47 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:25:47 +0200
Subject: NSA: We're in YOUR BOTNET (Snowden)
Message-ID: <20150121162547.GA2525@sivokote.iziade.m$>

journos:
NSA: We're in YOUR BOTNET
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/19/nsa_steals_malware/
> The NSA quietly commandeered a botnet targeting US Defence agencies to
> attack other victims including Chinese and Vietnamese dissidents,
> Snowden documents reveal.

Allegedly snowden doc from TFA:
http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35689.pdf

---
Questions:
I read some botnets use crypto to CC.

> 1. How the NSA broke the crypto?

> 2. Which browser the dear NSA used used
> in the alleged Snowden screenshots?
(maybe firefux)




From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Jan 21 15:39:03 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:39:03 -0500
Subject: Press release: Barrett Brown will finally be sentenced tomorrow
Message-ID: <E1YE4qf-0000cn-Tp@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

http://tumblr.freebarrettbrown.org/post/108769779474/press-release-barrett-brown-will-finally-be





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 21 11:09:46 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 20:09:46 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54BF8A73.9090807@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1507150.8oNsLH3MgL@lapuntu> <54BF8A73.9090807@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <56882091.3orcsWcKjX@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 21 stycznia 2015 11:16:03 Cathal Garvey pisze:
>  > That's one of the reasons ACTA got killed in the EU. Amelia
>  > Andersdotter, among a few others, was doing an amazing job in
>  > the EuroParliament around this topic.
> 
> Indeed, the Pirates are seriously punching above their weight in terms
> of influence in EU. So much so that the other "mainstream" parties have
> started adopting pirate policies to greater/lesser extents; this
> actually lead to a drop in pirate votes, but on balance it's a good sign.

Yup. Admittedly a bit naïvely, but here's something I wrote some time ago:
http://rys.io/en/78
http://rys.io/en/80

> Now, Julia Reda is in charge of the draft proposals for copyright reform
> in the EU. They put a pirate in charge of that. And, she's done broad
> consultations through net and otherwise, she's publicised every visit
> from lobbyists, and she's released an evidence-heavy report with
> recommendations for serious reform; not the hardcore pirate outcome, but
> something no other kind of EU politician would have come out with.

Absolutely. She's already getting some flak from the copyright reform 
maximalists, but I think that even a small positive change in the copyright 
regime in the EU would be a huge step forward. And there is no way we're going 
to make any large changes, not with IFPI, ZAiKS and other "MAFIAA"'s of the 
EU.

> Amelia and Julia are rockstars. I've been waiting and poking for a
> Pirate Party in Ireland to form so I can try and send more quality MEPs
> over to Brussels but we always lag behind on my island. :)

Sadly, the Polish Pirate Party is a joke:
http://rys.io/en/119

So be careful what you wish for.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 21 12:08:47 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:08:47 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54bfffb2.0170e00a.46cf.ffffa8a2@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56882091.3orcsWcKjX@lapuntu> <54bfffb2.0170e00a.46cf.ffffa8a2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1479312.IPYV2b01VZ@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 21 stycznia 2015 16:38:51 Juan pisze:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 20:09:46 +0100
> 
> rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > but I think that even a small positive change in the
> > copyright regime in the EU would be a huge step forward.
> 
> 	But it isn't. Small 'reforms' are one of the fundamental pilars
> 	of conservatism. You are playing into their hands.

You do it your way, I'll do it my way, we'll see what each of us gets through. 
I'd love a huge, sweeping copyright reform, so if you win, we both win. I am 
perfectly fine with such an arrangement.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com  Wed Jan 21 19:04:07 2015
From: badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com (Badbiosvictim)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 22:04:07 -0500
Subject: RedPhone Removed from Google Play Store
In-Reply-To: <20150120052737.2FFA1C0001B@frontend1.nyi.internal>
References: <54649217.4010106@cathalgarvey.me>
 <93178493-002f-4f61-b120-6c6e557fc9ef@email.android.com>
 <bd8dc4d2-b246-47d5-93f2-3a93442d7b27@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmshclhbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <45fc1d99-a0f1-4598-8f26-cb55ac9da478@email.android.com>
 <op.xsmx4a1obgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <108f4d63ee0193fa5c0583030bd93dc9.squirrel@ruggedinbox.com>
 <20150120052737.2FFA1C0001B@frontend1.nyi.internal>
Message-ID: <10a6bced-6f35-47c9-a2b4-873b8a145579@email.android.com>

I appreciate your suggestion. My Motorola Droid has android 4.1. Thanks.

On January 20, 2015 12:27:51 AM EST, shelley at misanthropia.org wrote:
>On January 19, 2015 6:45:46 PM badbiosvictim at ruggedinbox.com wrote:
>
>>> If someone knows of a way to install a current version of the Google
>> > Service Framework, without using the Google Play app, I'd be
>interested 
>> to know.
>
>I don't use google-anything on my android phone; I use F-Droid and 
>side-load everything else.  I'm sorry if I've missed it, but which
>version 
>of android OS are you running?  Surely one of us can upload the 
>corresponding GSF .apk for you?
>
>
>> >
>> > Otherwise you're stuck using older versions of Textsecure that
>support
>> > SMS, but again I'm pretty sure that requires an active cellular
>plan with
>> > SMS capable telephone number.
>>
>> You are correct. I will use older TextSecure on my activated phone.
>Works
>> perfectly.
>>
>> On my unactivated "PDA,"&#61185;I will continue to email my contacts
>> cellular text address unless I convince my contacts to use peerio or
>> chatsecure or subrosa.
>>
>>




From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Jan 22 07:16:19 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:16:19 -0500
Subject: Barrett Brown allocution statement in court today
Message-ID: <E1YEJVY-0000rY-5O@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Barrett Brown allocution statement in court today just released

http://cryptome.org/2015/01/BB_allocution.pdf
http://cryptome.org/2015/01/BB_allocution.doc





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 22 13:01:20 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:01:20 -0500
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <6652047.gukU60lQCF@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <4971932.UYAX8xIp6F@lapuntu> <20150122190016.GA9696@tau1.ceti.pl>
 <6652047.gukU60lQCF@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_mv4Q23n4G7PS1tmBEzC_qh31q4T+tT_57JRkzQihomg@mail.gmail.com>

I think this thread was meant to be relatively serious should
anyone have received revelation or feel divinely inspired to take
it up. ie: If there are people or higher powers creating churches,
truly believing and deriving something from attending, marrying,
preaching, needing, worshiping kopimi, aliens, god[s], or whatever...
what theological, moral, philosophical, social, even political and other
areas would the church of cypherpunk/crypto/code comparatively
reflect/inspire/direct. Great... God of Entropy, full stop, but that makes
for a pretty thin religion, at least as typical world religions go.
But sure, if you get it right you could hold the codex in hand, set your
cart upon encoder wheels, cultivate followers, go crusading and take
over the world ;-)




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Thu Jan 22 16:17:52 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (shelley at misanthropia.org)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:17:52 -0800
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <1502628.ObpxR6BFZQ@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <129276743.uc1ZHKSjte@lapuntu> <20150122215534.GB7520@ctrlc.hu>
 <1502628.ObpxR6BFZQ@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150123001737.191CBC00015@frontend1.nyi.internal>

On January 22, 2015 3:21:38 PM rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia czwartek, 22 stycznia 2015 22:55:34 stef pisze:
> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:40:23PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> > > Cypherpunks, as far as I can tell, at least try not to rely on dogmas.
> >
> > are you drunk?
>
> Aw come on, I hoped for the ruse to last at least a *bit* longer. Had to spoil
> it instantly like this? Not cool, man.
>

This is funny and all, but you are fortunate that the FSM (Sauce be upon 
Him) is a benevolent deity.

May his Noodly Appendages touch you all (but not in the swimsuit area), rAmen!





From rtomek at ceti.pl  Thu Jan 22 11:00:16 2015
From: rtomek at ceti.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 20:00:16 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <4971932.UYAX8xIp6F@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150114124155.GA18002@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <4971932.UYAX8xIp6F@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150122190016.GA9696@tau1.ceti.pl>

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 03:08:32PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> 
> I can see that. Come Monday morning, an admin comes to his
> workplace, notices there's, say, some random leakage of water from a
> pipe above the server room and goes: "oh god, the servers!"

There is untold battle between God of Sewer, a companion of Entropy,
and God of Server. Always going on. Tssssh. Do not write about it on
the net.

-- 
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 22 11:38:18 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 20:38:18 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <20150122190016.GA9696@tau1.ceti.pl>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <4971932.UYAX8xIp6F@lapuntu> <20150122190016.GA9696@tau1.ceti.pl>
Message-ID: <6652047.gukU60lQCF@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 22 stycznia 2015 20:00:16 Tomasz Rola pisze:
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 03:08:32PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> > I can see that. Come Monday morning, an admin comes to his
> > workplace, notices there's, say, some random leakage of water from a
> > pipe above the server room and goes: "oh god, the servers!"
> 
> There is untold battle between God of Sewer, a companion of Entropy,
> and God of Server. Always going on. Tssssh. Do not write about it on
> the net.

And from this dialectic tension between the God of Sewer and the God of Server 
emerges a new Deity: the God of Serwer.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 22 13:40:23 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:40:23 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_mv4Q23n4G7PS1tmBEzC_qh31q4T+tT_57JRkzQihomg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6652047.gukU60lQCF@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti2_mv4Q23n4G7PS1tmBEzC_qh31q4T+tT_57JRkzQihomg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <129276743.uc1ZHKSjte@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 22 stycznia 2015 16:01:20 grarpamp pisze:
> I think this thread was meant to be relatively serious should
> anyone have received revelation or feel divinely inspired to take
> it up. ie: If there are people or higher powers creating churches,
> truly believing and deriving something from attending, marrying,
> preaching, needing, worshiping kopimi, aliens, god[s], or whatever...
> what theological, moral, philosophical, social, even political and other
> areas would the church of cypherpunk/crypto/code comparatively
> reflect/inspire/direct. Great... God of Entropy, full stop, but that makes
> for a pretty thin religion, at least as typical world religions go.
> But sure, if you get it right you could hold the codex in hand, set your
> cart upon encoder wheels, cultivate followers, go crusading and take
> over the world ;-)

And then fuck it all up royally, because religions are based on dogmas and 
dogmas tend to create all sorts of problematic shit as time goes by.

Cypherpunks, as far as I can tell, at least try not to rely on dogmas. So, 
"Cypherpunk Church", to me at least, sounds like an oxymoron.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From s at ctrlc.hu  Thu Jan 22 13:55:34 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:55:34 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <129276743.uc1ZHKSjte@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6652047.gukU60lQCF@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti2_mv4Q23n4G7PS1tmBEzC_qh31q4T+tT_57JRkzQihomg@mail.gmail.com>
 <129276743.uc1ZHKSjte@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150122215534.GB7520@ctrlc.hu>

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:40:23PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> Cypherpunks, as far as I can tell, at least try not to rely on dogmas.

are you drunk?

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 22 14:30:30 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:30:30 +0100
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <20150122215534.GB7520@ctrlc.hu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <129276743.uc1ZHKSjte@lapuntu> <20150122215534.GB7520@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <1502628.ObpxR6BFZQ@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 22 stycznia 2015 22:55:34 stef pisze:
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:40:23PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> > Cypherpunks, as far as I can tell, at least try not to rely on dogmas.
> 
> are you drunk?

Aw come on, I hoped for the ruse to last at least a *bit* longer. Had to spoil 
it instantly like this? Not cool, man.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From politynews at gmx.com  Sat Jan 24 10:29:19 2015
From: politynews at gmx.com (Polity News)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:29:19 -0500
Subject: Illinois School Password Controversy, What the Mainstream News Is
 Getting Wrong
Message-ID: <54C3E47F.6080403@gmx.com>

There are a lot of news stories about the law which allows Illinois
schools to demand students' passwords. Many of the stories incorrectly
implicate a new anti-cyberbullying law. The law which allows schools to
demand student passwords is a different law that was passed in 2013.

http://piratetimes.net/exclusive-illinois-law-allows-schools-to-spy-on-students-what-fox-news-got-wrong/




From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Jan 25 08:04:31 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2015 11:04:31 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] Barrett Brown allocution statement in court today
In-Reply-To: <7D5382FD-C858-4240-9489-9F04F87D2084@icloud.com>
References: <E1YEJVY-0000rY-5O@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <7D5382FD-C858-4240-9489-9F04F87D2084@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <E1YFPfA-0007gp-9g@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

At 10:25 PM 1/24/2015, Mahlon Theobald wrote:
>Well what happened?

5 years 3 months sentence. Time served of 2.5 years to be credited.
Possible parole in 1 year.

http://cryptome.org/2015/01/brown-145-104.pdf

  Defiant statement after sentencing: "Mission now to report on FU prison
system after reporting on FU cyber system."






From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Jan 25 10:54:19 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2015 13:54:19 -0500
Subject: Citizenfour Snowden Documentary
In-Reply-To: <E1YFPfA-0007gp-9g@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YEJVY-0000rY-5O@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <7D5382FD-C858-4240-9489-9F04F87D2084@icloud.com>
 <E1YFPfA-0007gp-9g@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E1YFSJW-0000kz-TT@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Citizenfour Snowden Documentary (7-Zipped MP4, 1.2GB)

<http://t.co/wFhUAWJJVK>http://cryptome.org/Citizenfour.7z

http://cryptome.org/2015/01/Citizenfour-Screengrabs-pdfs.7z

Snowden releases tally: 
<http://t.co/ASJgpwJSVQ>http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm 


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From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 12:53:50 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 12:53:50 -0800
Subject: Cryptome banned from DocumentCloud.org and Amazon.com
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QXPsJ=oAUSXAhAKDbvz5KSMhUUJ3bzAX=D=MPwC8NLzA@mail.gmail.com>

"""
Bans of Cryptome by DocumentCloud.org and Amazon.com while both
publish Snowden's documents reveals corruption of profitable and NGO
media.

Amazon says it canceled offering of Cryptome Archive due to ban on
publishing government documents. Prohibited:
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/200685320
"""


banned library? banned librarian?




From cryptomars at cryptoparty.fr  Tue Jan 27 06:31:11 2015
From: cryptomars at cryptoparty.fr (Cryptoparty Marseille)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 15:31:11 +0100
Subject: Citizenfour Snowden Documentary
In-Reply-To: <E1YFSJW-0000kz-TT@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YEJVY-0000rY-5O@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <7D5382FD-C858-4240-9489-9F04F87D2084@icloud.com>
 <E1YFPfA-0007gp-9g@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1YFSJW-0000kz-TT@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <54C7A12F.7090104@cryptoparty.fr>

On 25/01/2015 19:54, John Young wrote:
> Citizenfour Snowden Documentary (7-Zipped MP4, 1.2GB)
>
> http://cryptome.org/Citizenfour.7z <http://t.co/wFhUAWJJVK>
>
> http://cryptome.org/2015/01/Citizenfour-Screengrabs-pdfs.7z
> <http://cryptome.org/2015/01/Citizenfour-Screengrabs-pdfs.7z>
>
> Snowden releases tally: http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm
> … <http://t.co/ASJgpwJSVQ>
>
It's also available as a torrent, at a higher resolution.

Torrent file: https://paf.lu/citizenfour

Size of mp4 file: 3.64 GB

Technical:
 Video H.264 1280x720 HD, Main profile, 4Mbps
 Audio English AAC 300Kbps
 Not a screener
 Some "for your consideration" writing a few times in the movie.
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 27 16:10:41 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:10:41 -0700
Subject: Cryptome banned from DocumentCloud.org and Amazon.com
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QXPsJ=oAUSXAhAKDbvz5KSMhUUJ3bzAX=D=MPwC8NLzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QXPsJ=oAUSXAhAKDbvz5KSMhUUJ3bzAX=D=MPwC8NLzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54C82901.4090300@riseup.net>

On 01/27/2015 01:53 PM, coderman wrote:
> """
> Bans of Cryptome by DocumentCloud.org and Amazon.com while both
> publish Snowden's documents reveals corruption of profitable and NGO
> media.
> 
> Amazon says it canceled offering of Cryptome Archive due to ban on
> publishing government documents. Prohibited:
> https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/200685320
> """
> 
> 
> banned library? banned librarian?

This is indeed puzzling.

I see this text on a 2015-01-24 version of the page,[0] but it's gone
now. And the link is just a seller login page.

But hey, I've discovered <https://www.changedetection.com/> :)

[0] http://63.249.66.211/comparecache.html




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 15:45:55 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 18:45:55 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] traffic analysis
In-Reply-To: <CABrd9ST1K1zw45BuOBq8fP3WCccp+sMyhAvwACZzNjuQmRq-+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH7M2h=S0n6aWoEEwP8b0c3Mtb8s6MWq1aHdjc1VmXCCHKH8MQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150124224855.BD6D5EA9FD@snorky.mixmin.net>
 <19D7B5ED-1C5E-4E31-B746-F8721E628BAD@vpnc.org>
 <20150126131726.82505EAA8C@snorky.mixmin.net>
 <54C6B4FA.6070108@av8n.com>
 <CAD2Ti2_qAW26wiaTo74ULXfeRAeAONA4a58=aFroamoYN9Z8=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <3731C61B-D8BB-49F2-9F92-4E5B845116CB@lrw.com>
 <CABrd9ST1K1zw45BuOBq8fP3WCccp+sMyhAvwACZzNjuQmRq-+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29gdxDQdenS1bcokZVLdBrMBSUuJgEV6ELsZ_7e=Ly+pQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Ben Laurie <benl at google.com> wrote:
> Yeah, but ... who can realistically afford that bandwidth?

One can afford what they wish to give to and thus expect to get from
the network in return, no more, no less, as always. (Be it literally
from the physical  NIC network, or the logical networks created by
their applications riding over and within the physical.)

> To every possible recipient? Clearly you have to make a tradeoff.

Full meshing of chaff addressed to all participants seems unnecessary.

> grarpamp wrote:
> Is there so much (possibly far less than correct) thought out there
> that fill bandwidth is evil, untolerable, unmanageable, and blocking
> of usability such that these networks are moot to even try coding
> for general deployment?

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Jerry Leichter <leichter at lrw.com> wrote:
> Google Fiber offers 1Gb/second - but how many customers running all
> out will overload any possible backbone behind the single link from the
> house to the concentrator?
>
> If everyone starts sending constant cover traffic, links will be quickly
> overloaded all over the place. At which point the providers will start
> charging [...] nobody will be happy

That's the simple man's kneejerk response when initially contemplating
chaffed networks.

> There's room to do much better.  For one thing, you don't need to saturate your link with cover traffic - you need to send enough cover traffic so that a listener can't tell the difference between cover and real traffic.

This depends on if you're network is a low latency one, or if it
uses a store and forward model. Even that is tricky due to
needs to hide the size of data each endpoint exchanges from
passive adversaries. It begins to approach constant higher
rate the more you data wish to pass securely.

> If your cover traffic rate equals your average rate over some period of time,
> you're not adding more traffic - you're simply replacing some of your cover
> messages with real messages.  But ... what happens when you have a
> peak demand way above your average?

Then you must wait until you can pass your wheat. Or plan your
needs according to the give and get model.

> As Stealthmonger has commented concerning anonymity, if you want
> security against traffic analysis, you have to accept delays:  Set your
> cover traffic rate somewhat higher than your average rate, and you'll
> *eventually* catch up with peaks (though as with any queueing system,
> the delays can grow without bound - requiring unbounded memory
> *somewhere*).

Delays (trading latency) are not the only way to achieve security.
You may also elect to trade available throughput bandwidth in a
wheat/chaff system.

> I'm not aware of any open research on these kinds of questions - though
> it may well be out there.  What's the optimum cover traffic rate under
> various assumptions about the real traffic rate and distribution?  When
> is it safe to use the traffic other users present as cover for your own?
> Clearly if there's only one other user sending traffic, you can't use him
> for cover as *he* can tell which of the packets are yours.  But is there a
> way to mix traffic from multiple users in a way that requires large numbers
> of them to conspire to reveal anything?  The mixmaster stuff looks at this
> specifically from the point of view of a store-and-forward node - is there
> some suitable useful analogue on a single link?  Can we somehow get
> the same guarantees without storage inside the network?

There were some research references posted in the threads below.

> we're now going to have to change our attitudes toward traffic analysis.

Yes, a lot of oppurtunity exists to create new working networks
in this area that utilize fill traffic and/or delay.


You may want to review the recent guardian-dev and tor-dev side
threads below on this exact subject of link padding, latency and
analysis. Relavent papers and talk have been posted.

https://lists.mayfirst.org/pipermail/guardian-dev/2014-November/004040.html
https://lists.mayfirst.org/pipermail/guardian-dev/2014-November/004069.html
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2014-November/007741.html
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2014-December/007934.html
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2015-January/008039.html
http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2015-January/024479.html
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2015-January/008099.html

[Copied a few places simply to include these ongoing links as
reference for anyone interested.]




From electromagnetize at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 17:55:00 2015
From: electromagnetize at gmail.com (brian carroll)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 19:55:00 -0600
Subject: AWO text available
Message-ID: <CADhsnxdEv7GHE5zo46KQPHehzJEkVzrtjyBDO_95Nq4RNE97RA@mail.gmail.com>

Apple Watch Observations. 123pp, btc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
no copyright. redistribution & mirroring ok (see disclaimer)
web-version: https://appleobservations.wordpress.com
pdf-version: http://tinyurl.com/AWO-final-01-25-15

Critique of the Apple Watch concept in a good-bad-&-ugly scenario,
accounting for app mania & the "apps apps apps" mantra preceding
creation of the App Watch, standing in for the watch of the future.
Thus proprietary apps, OS & ecosystem approach as a conceptual
and ideological limit, though also in a context of hidden politics,
exploitation of technology and rapidly developing police state.
In this way dual-use blackbox devices, antagonistic electronics
operating with competing value systems, human and antihuman,
truth absent within computer data models, no structural basis
for knowledge, the bit itself becomes 'the sign of truth', where
$=bit (on=money, off=no-money) in terms of evaluating data,
leading to slavery dynamics, censoring data by denying access
via authoritarian control over culture, on behalf of tyrannical
power politics of Big Daddy as state oppressor, not Big Brother.
In this way - as an optimistic view - establishing new rights to
data access via wearable technology, micro-data & -payments
in surrounding pervasive wireless infrastructure, beyond the
detached aristocratic mindset of Silicon Valley utopianism,
developing tools for humanity, to support & secure freedom.

/note: the gist for cypherpunks & crypto could involve an otherwise
off-the-books threat model & related security issues in a real-world
non-politically-correct analysis conveyed via plainspoken viewpoint/.

0.1   unveiling, cognitive dissonance, counterpoint, time = $$$
1.1   device name, seitiroirp, technocracy, culture & fitness profiles
1.2   watch of the future, Achilles heel, risk and reward, App Watch
1.3   timing, SoC as movement, GPS, XU, OS-determinism, sans AI
1.4   apps, middle-mgmt, ecosystem, ideology, iPhone, autonomy
2.1   aesthetics, inside/outside, gap, data-model, utility & futility
2.2   moonshot, wrist computer, security threat, proprietization
3.1   consumerism, QC and QA, revolution, ideas and processing
3.2   calligraphy v. helveticization, interface as facade, core-rot
3.3   forced perspective, junk|joke, mirroring, mundanity of evil
4.1   watches {mechanical, electronic, computer} w/A&D display
4.2   lessons unlearned, display-battery issues, value, economy
4.3   snsrs, smartwatch {digital watch}; set {subset}, subset {set}
4.4   the heart, biorhythmic movement, fitness, ID maze, dystopia
4.5   jumping spider, true innovation, seed, wristwatch data orrery
4.6   aesthetic substance, 1984, inhuman technology, Dark Ages 2.0
5.1   space-time-place device, brain|mind, consciousness, AI, QvA
5.2   time signals, delay, accuracy, GPS & atomic clocks, Project Apollo
5.3   context+sensors+datalogging+networking < user case studies
6.1   malproduction, surveillance, antagonistic electronics, crazy ones
6.2   more: dual-use, weaponization, unreality, hidden politics, errors
6.3   blackbox, eg. flashdrive, A/B, corruption, NSA, police state, trap
6.4   control. transparency, covert infrastructure, Taylorism, insecurity
6.5   flds+sgnls, diagnostics, forbidden fruit, Abuse, sexuality & power
6.6   fear, donuts, aristocracy, slavery, OS plantation, clockwork-apple
6.7   fortune telling, $=bit, wysinwyg, invisible states, watching spies
6.8   ideals, Big Daddy, neg.dev, IoT, bubble, conceptual shareholders
7.1   data infrastructure, the grid, 1950s, security, public-private.dev
7.2   lifespan, jewelry.ext, adaptive+assistive, mission, snake eyes
7.3   hybrid [touch'e, hands]. OS highway & App store, data.access
7.4   variation, design styling, extroversion, net.watch, tiers, gold
7.5   radar, wi-fi infrastructure, micro-data development, freedom
7.6   direction, cultural RD&D, calculator v. computer, human future


xtre: proposal for public email list to discuss & debate ideas...

It is wondered if anyone would be interested in establishing
an email discussion list related to general AWO themes as
a beginning point for any such artifact/infrastructure/system
issues, observations or analyses as the general framework.
A proposed list name, 'net.watch-list', is keyed from the text,
simultaneously referencing a potential Wi-Fi based wristwatch
with public access to pervasive data services, though also the
reality of being watched in surveillance-based global society,
as this also relates to watching the watchers, everyone an eye
as observations empirically correlate, find ground or fail to unify
as this increases isolation, alienation, silence, self-censoring.
The main concern with an open discussion (whether public or
private) is institutional and-or legal support or backing to limit
internal/external subversion or interference with list operation
so that people can feel safe communicating in "free society."
My vote would be for a public list connected to a University,
where a lot of people are discussing the same realm of ideas,
not limited of course to AWO or authorial perspective, though
involving dynamics mentioned, hypotheses, many viewpoints.

Any feedback or ideas on this appreciated. ~cc.nettime-l

electromagnetize at gmail.com


{The Internet Emporium}: related project
http://internetemporium.wordpress.com/




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Jan 27 20:18:29 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (shelley at misanthropia.org)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:18:29 -0800
Subject: Barrett Brown
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14b2ec30238.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

Hey now, my keyboard is clean!

No, we've never heard of BB or Project PM.  Never ever.  We do however 
appreciate your always sunny and informative transmissions.

Regards,

A non-capitalist who occasionally functions as a life form.


----------
On January 27, 2015 6:13:54 PM Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or like you're way too fucking
> parasiticly capitalistic and more interested in using your profound talents
> to dox workers on this list and press meaningless repetative buttons on a
> dirty keyboard and stare than actually functioning as a life form?





From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Jan 27 20:22:06 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (shelley at misanthropia.org)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 20:22:06 -0800
Subject: Barrett Brown
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14b2ec655c8.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

P.s. the previous reply was intentionally top-posted for Gwen, wherever he is.


----------
On January 27, 2015 6:13:54 PM Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or like you're way too fucking
> parasiticly capitalistic and more interested in using your profound talents
> to dox workers on this list and press meaningless repetative buttons on a
> dirty keyboard and stare than actually functioning as a life form?





From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Jan 27 23:36:54 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:36:54 -0700
Subject: Barrett Brown
In-Reply-To: <CANBOYLXXVgFAwS8mL+Z_D4FNLPZJu5Kcv+UgDFuF0fvZK0YUHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <14b2ec655c8.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <CANBOYLXXVgFAwS8mL+Z_D4FNLPZJu5Kcv+UgDFuF0fvZK0YUHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54C89196.7090108@riseup.net>

On 01/27/2015 10:55 PM, Eric Mill wrote:
> This is everything I ever wanted a cypherpunk mailing list to be

Have you ever read Toto's posts?

> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:22 PM, shelley at misanthropia.org <
> shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> 
>> P.s. the previous reply was intentionally top-posted for Gwen, wherever he
>> is.
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> On January 27, 2015 6:13:54 PM Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or like you're way too fucking
>>> parasiticly capitalistic and more interested in using your profound
>>> talents
>>> to dox workers on this list and press meaningless repetative buttons on a
>>> dirty keyboard and stare than actually functioning as a life form?
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 




From eric at konklone.com  Tue Jan 27 21:55:06 2015
From: eric at konklone.com (Eric Mill)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 00:55:06 -0500
Subject: Barrett Brown
In-Reply-To: <14b2ec655c8.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
References: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <14b2ec655c8.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <CANBOYLXXVgFAwS8mL+Z_D4FNLPZJu5Kcv+UgDFuF0fvZK0YUHA@mail.gmail.com>

This is everything I ever wanted a cypherpunk mailing list to be

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:22 PM, shelley at misanthropia.org <
shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:

> P.s. the previous reply was intentionally top-posted for Gwen, wherever he
> is.
>
>
> ----------
> On January 27, 2015 6:13:54 PM Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or like you're way too fucking
>> parasiticly capitalistic and more interested in using your profound
>> talents
>> to dox workers on this list and press meaningless repetative buttons on a
>> dirty keyboard and stare than actually functioning as a life form?
>>
>
>
>


-- 
konklone.com | @konklone <https://twitter.com/konklone>
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 17:19:44 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 02:19:44 +0100
Subject: Barrett Brown
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVrDBFMQ0HvNL5Q-b=8Si_-mgH1o5VfiWG2Buq-gSTrDg@mail.gmail.com>

Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or like you're way too fucking
parasiticly capitalistic and more interested in using your profound talents
to dox workers on this list and press meaningless repetative buttons on a
dirty keyboard and stare than actually functioning as a life form?
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From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 09:43:10 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 09:43:10 -0800
Subject: Barrett Brown precedent
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1ThYg6jxKozyYCbocz-eTe7+b3yxbm2y8tS=Pcw-T8E9A@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/27/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has this fucking list ever heard of barrett or...


my two favorite take-aways from the BB sentencing farce:

1. idling in IRC is consent for all activity there, and carries legal
culpability. (!!!)

2. reposting links from IRC is conspiracy, and adds aggravating
factors to your crimes. (!!!)

tried estimating my life sentences for #nottor on oftc but stopped
counting after a dozen...




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Jan 28 04:03:10 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 13:03:10 +0100
Subject: SilentCircle fail
Message-ID: <2378884.xJfEpLONTC@lapuntu>

So,

this:
http://blog.azimuthsecurity.com/2015/01/blackpwn-blackphone-silenttext-type.html

------------------------

While exploring my recently purchased BlackPhone, I discovered that the
messaging application contains a serious memory corruption vulnerability
that can be triggered remotely by an attacker.  If exploited
successfully, this flaw could be used to gain remote arbitrary code
execution on the target's handset. The code run by the attacker will
have the privileges of the messaging application, which is a standard
Android application with some additional privileges. Specifically, it is
possible to:

    decrypt messages / commandeer SilentCircle account
    gather location information
    read contacts
    write to external storage
    run additional code of the attacker's choosing (such as a privilege
escalation exploit aimed at gaining root or kernel-mode access, thus
taking complete control of the phone)


The only knowledge required by the attacker is the target's Silent
Circle ID or phone number - the target does not need to be lured in to
contacting the attacker (although the flaw is exploitable in this
scenario as well).

(...)

By resetting the jctx->msg->msgType field with the "dh2" attribute at
the end of the message, a type confusion vulnerability will occur where
the seq fields supplied in the "data" message will be incorrectly
interpreted as the pk field - a raw memory pointer. (In this case, the
low two bytes have been set to 0x8080.) Note that by utilizing messages
other than "data", we could arbitrarily modify the entire pointer (and
the pkLen field, indicating how much data pk points to). Assuming that
we are at the correct phase of protocol negotiation, sending this
message results in the following crash:

]Fatal signal 11 (SIGSEGV) at 0xdeadbaad (code=1), thread 17201
(com.silentcircl)
I/DEBUG   ( 9735): *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
*** *** ***
I/DEBUG   ( 9735): Revision: '0'
I/DEBUG   ( 9735): pid: 15611, tid: 17201, name: com.silentcircl  >>>
com.silentcircle.silenttext <<<
I/DEBUG   ( 9735): signal 11 (SIGSEGV), code 1 (SEGV_MAPERR), fault addr
deadbaad
I/DEBUG   ( 9735): Abort message: 'invalid address or address of corrupt
block 0x601b8078 passed to dlfree'

(...)

....a raw memory pointer....
....a raw memory pointer....
....a raw memory pointer....
....a raw memory pointer....

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Tue Jan 27 22:37:01 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 19:37:01 +1300
Subject: Barrett Brown
In-Reply-To: <CANBOYLXXVgFAwS8mL+Z_D4FNLPZJu5Kcv+UgDFuF0fvZK0YUHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1YGMFJ-0001jy-Be@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>

Eric Mill <eric at konklone.com> writes:

>This is everything I ever wanted a cypherpunk mailing list to be

I dunno, I think the Malcolm Tucker wannabe act from two or three messages ago
was pretty dire.  What makes Malcolm so entertaining is that he's a creative
artist when it comes to swearing ("This is like The Shawshank Redemption, only
with more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption" or "When I want
your opinion I'll give you the signal, and that signal's me being sectioned
under the mental fucking health act") while the OPs use came across as very
amateurish, no creativity at all, just some boilerplate swearing cobbled
together with rubber bands and matchsticks.  That wouldn't even get a conceded
pass mark for effort, it's a straight F.

Peter.




From hozer at hozed.org  Wed Jan 28 18:02:09 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:02:09 -0600
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
Message-ID: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop>

How did I wake up in a Douglas Adams novel today, did anyone check for vogons?
The only way it could be better is if he was drunk on russian vodka.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2015/01/28/after_white_house_crash_drone_maker_dji_restricts_its_uavs_flying_zone.html


The only logical explaination for this is someone who knows how completely
busted and broken the system has gotten is trying to make a point.

It's the complete absurdity of stuff like this that convinces me that no 'vast
government conspiracy' could ever survive the organizational incompetence.

Or at least, that's what the vogons want me to think. 




From hozer at hozed.org  Wed Jan 28 18:13:32 2015
From: hozer at hozed.org (Troy Benjegerdes)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:13:32 -0600
Subject: Does Cypherpunk need a Church?
In-Reply-To: <43090368.ccXnftFsfm@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti28+u2a3fsAAV9GFa=scCQagERRVcJ7mna6Xj8uoU4zBcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150116000502.GG14804@nl.grid.coop>
 <1421372437.1959955.214567793.03FDBCDF@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <43090368.ccXnftFsfm@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150129021332.GI14804@nl.grid.coop>

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:04:12AM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia czwartek, 15 stycznia 2015 17:40:37 shelley at misanthropia.info pisze:
> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015, at 04:05 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > > Or cats.
> > > 
> > > Ceiling Cat
> > > Basement Cat
> > > Catoshi, the patron of low-market altcoins
> > 
> > Catoshi!  Good one.  Of course, our sabbath would be Caturday, at the
> > altar of LongCat.
> 
> And for the moral relativists among us that would be Unsigned LongCat.

Just watch out for the followers of gcc "-DLong=\"`cat $long`\""
for they are subtle, and quick to buffer overflow.




From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Jan 29 06:30:58 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:30:58 -0500
Subject: How the CIA Made Google
Message-ID: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e

Fascinating research, with gobs of suspects besides TLAs, Brin and Page,
some here now, some here back then, as suspected then and now. Not
that there is anything wrong with suspecting cpunks was made similarly.





From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Jan 29 06:48:38 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 09:48:38 -0500
Subject: Why Google made the NSA
Message-ID: <E1YGqMn-0006sE-Uw@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/why-google-made-the-nsa-2a80584c9c1

Part 2 of the Google TLA allegations.





From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 29 00:17:46 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 10:17:46 +0200
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
In-Reply-To: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <20150129081746.GA4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 08:02:09PM -0600, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> How did I wake up in a Douglas Adams novel today, did anyone check for vogons?
> The only way it could be better is if he was drunk on russian vodka.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2015/01/28/after_white_house_crash_drone_maker_dji_restricts_its_uavs_flying_zone.html
> 
> 
> The only logical explaination for this is someone who knows how completely
> busted and broken the system has gotten is trying to make a point.
> 
> It's the complete absurdity of stuff like this that convinces me that no 'vast
> government conspiracy' could ever survive the organizational incompetence.
> 
> Or at least, that's what the vogons want me to think. 


LOL...

I see no vogons here.

Is it possible North Korea to be also involved? ;)




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 29 01:41:35 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 11:41:35 +0200
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 03:56:02AM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> Cypherpunks for elected reps! Where's the retired cypherpunks
> anyways? We have a job for you...

I am very sceptical about this happening.

About 99.999% of the voters are pure sheeple.

Just a bit of media manipulation and selected
excerpts of this list might marginalize the term
"cypherpunk".

Pirate Party gives the sheeple porn/music for free
AFAICT.

What can you trade to sheeple for their votes?


Just wait economically enslaved sheeple got hurt
and then tell them "We told you so".

The political situation in Greece appears to support
this.

OFFTOPIC:
vvvvvvvv


I have lived long enough in advanced socialism (AKA
communism) and alleged democracy.

The politicians are essentially the same IMHO.

It is hard for me to tell which implementation
sucks more.




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 29 03:07:29 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 12:07:29 +0100
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
In-Reply-To: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop>
References: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop>
Message-ID: <1553778.22Ie05jM8e@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 28 stycznia 2015 20:02:09 Troy Benjegerdes pisze:
> How did I wake up in a Douglas Adams novel today, did anyone check for
> vogons? The only way it could be better is if he was drunk on russian
> vodka.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2015/01/28/after_white_house_crash_d
> rone_maker_dji_restricts_its_uavs_flying_zone.html

Well.:
http://rys.io/en/54

"Quadcopters and similar, hovering-capable drones will be soon banned,
 probably as weapons, probably under "anti-terrorism" laws.

 (...)

 They will get banned, and will get banned as "terrorist devices". You will
 hear arguments that, for example, they are able to help "terrorists" plant
 explosives or create havoc and are very hard to take down once airborne.

 The funny part is: we had flying drones in the form of RC planes and copters
 for years upon years and nobody thought about banning them. Moreover, these
 would be much better-suited for the supposed "terrorists", as they are bigger
 and more powerful — able to carry a bigger amount of explosives, on a longer
 distance, faster and therefore harder to intercept."

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Thu Jan 29 15:09:37 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (shelley at misanthropia.org)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:09:37 -0800
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <14b37f3cea0.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54caa84e.ca25e00a.73e7.ffff817b@mx.google.com>
 <14b37f3cea0.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <14b37f4f780.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

----------
On January 29, 2015 2:32:01 PM Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> 	The judeo-christian western empire, I mean, Civilization, is the
> 	most civilized civilization there is.

And we will bomb the shit out of... er, i mean bring our civilized form of 
capitalistic FREEDOM (and jesus- same thing, amirite?!) to any nation that 
says otherwise (or, that has oil.  Again, same thing...)





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Thu Jan 29 06:20:53 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:20:53 +0100
Subject: What if GHOST was/is exploitable on sshd/openssl? ;)
In-Reply-To: <20150129134535.GD4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150129134535.GD4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2895526.076u0dnZvg@lapuntu>

Dnia czwartek, 29 stycznia 2015 15:45:35 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> If GHOST were slightly worse giving exploit on openssl,
> would it have been worse than HB? :P

/me grabs some popcorn

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 29 05:45:35 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:45:35 +0200
Subject: What if GHOST was/is exploitable on sshd/openssl? ;)
Message-ID: <20150129134535.GD4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Overflow in libc:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/28/ghost_linux_megavuln_analysis/

Allegedly exploitable on exim.

Question to those who feared Hearth Bleed:

If GHOST were slightly worse giving exploit on openssl,
would it have been worse than HB? :P





From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 29 07:15:48 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 17:15:48 +0200
Subject: How the CIA Made Google
In-Reply-To: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20150129151548.GF4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 09:30:58AM -0500, John Young wrote:
> some here now, some here back then, as suspected then and now. Not
> that there is anything wrong with suspecting cpunks was made similarly.

Glad to learn I am not the only one suspecting the same for cpunks ;)




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Jan 29 16:20:49 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 17:20:49 -0700
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
In-Reply-To: <1553778.22Ie05jM8e@lapuntu>
References: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop> <1553778.22Ie05jM8e@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <54CACE61.7040501@riseup.net>

On 01/29/2015 04:07 AM, rysiek wrote:

<SNIP>

> Well.:
> http://rys.io/en/54
> 
> "Quadcopters and similar, hovering-capable drones will be soon banned,
>  probably as weapons, probably under "anti-terrorism" laws.
> 
>  (...)
> 
>  They will get banned, and will get banned as "terrorist devices". You will
>  hear arguments that, for example, they are able to help "terrorists" plant
>  explosives or create havoc and are very hard to take down once airborne.
> 
>  The funny part is: we had flying drones in the form of RC planes and copters
>  for years upon years and nobody thought about banning them. Moreover, these
>  would be much better-suited for the supposed "terrorists", as they are bigger
>  and more powerful — able to carry a bigger amount of explosives, on a longer
>  distance, faster and therefore harder to intercept."

How about this? http://sourceforge.net/projects/osmissile/

History: http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/bio.shtml

This was squashed, as I recall.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Jan 29 16:23:35 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 17:23:35 -0700
Subject: Why Google made the NSA
In-Reply-To: <E1YGqMn-0006sE-Uw@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YGqMn-0006sE-Uw@elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <54CACF07.7010302@riseup.net>

On 01/29/2015 07:48 AM, John Young wrote:
> https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/why-google-made-the-nsa-2a80584c9c1
> 
> Part 2 of the Google TLA allegations.

_Silicon Jungle_ is entertaining backstory :)




From mirimir at riseup.net  Thu Jan 29 16:40:08 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 17:40:08 -0700
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54CAD2E8.2040306@riseup.net>

On 01/29/2015 02:41 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:

<SNIP>

> I have lived long enough in advanced socialism (AKA
> communism) and alleged democracy.

With some exceptions (batshit crazy ideologues, for the most part)
communism in practice has basically been kleptocracy. Ditto for
democracy (whether capitalist or socialist). Powerful just distract
sheeple in different ways.

> The politicians are essentially the same IMHO.

In my experience, yes.

> It is hard for me to tell which implementation
> sucks more.

They all suck. So it goes.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 14:42:49 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28mB84be9xSKTN+3AN-L36HCrfRLDPu_Rk5pW9p_Jf92A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> Just a bit of media manipulation and selected
> excerpts of this list might marginalize the term
> "cypherpunk".

Cypherpunk become savvy media manipulator too
like politicians. At least this list has evidence of
inteligient rational applied thought to pull from, where
a lot of born poiticians are just greasy things that care
not for problems but for themselves.

> Pirate Party gives the sheeple porn/music for free
> AFAICT.
> What can you trade to sheeple for their votes?

The ability, through crypto networks, for them to do
that anonymously without having to worry much any
longer about MAFIA breathing down their IP addresses.
They are a aware of mafia, they don't like mafia.
Cypherpunk is PP backup 2.0 there for them if PP
doesn't work to make actual free things there.

You can also give them power and encrypt all the things
to counter this spying stuff they hear on the news.

> Just wait economically enslaved sheeple got hurt
> and then tell them "We told you so".

This usually doesn't carry weight for you at that point
because the battle you proposed to fight back then has
already crumbled away and devolved into a more pressing
and different problem now.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 13:40:55 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 18:40:55 -0300
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54caa84e.ca25e00a.73e7.ffff817b@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 11:41:35 +0200
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:


> 
> 
> I have lived long enough in advanced socialism (AKA
> communism) and alleged democracy.
> 
> The politicians are essentially the same IMHO.
> 
> It is hard for me to tell which implementation
> sucks more.


	How can you say such horrible, and horribly misguided things? 

	The judeo-christian western empire, I mean, Civilization, is the
	most civilized civilization there is.









From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 15:34:24 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2015 20:34:24 -0300
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <14b37f4f780.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54caa84e.ca25e00a.73e7.ffff817b@mx.google.com>
 <14b37f3cea0.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <14b37f4f780.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <54cac2e7.e16a8c0a.5e6a.ffff9332@mx.google.com>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:09:37 -0800
"shelley at misanthropia.org" <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:

> ----------
> On January 29, 2015 2:32:01 PM Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > 	The judeo-christian western empire, I mean, Civilization,
> > is the most civilized civilization there is.
> 
> And we will bomb the shit out of... er, i mean bring our civilized
> form of capitalistic FREEDOM (and jesus- same thing, amirite?!) to
> any nation that says otherwise (or, that has oil.  Again, same
> thing...)
> 
> 

	It can't be helped. It's god's will.







From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 03:03:21 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 03:03:21 -0800
Subject: [liberationtech] The Future of Security Journalism
In-Reply-To: <54CA389D.6060107@porup.com>
References: <54C6AC47.40603@porup.com> <54C8E152.1020507@squimp.com>
 <54CA389D.6060107@porup.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Q4AyoxSFDe=LdyCvejXO=opY4VQ4r47yiV=nrN+1-j7w@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/29/15, J.M. Porup <jm at porup.com> wrote:
> ... If we don't wish to be serfs in the new feudal, digital
> world, we need to re-disrupt the disruption, and invent new tools that
> ensure human liberty and dignity. ... that time
> is short, and the New Dark Age is nearly upon us.


as one who is always fond of the question,
 "what's your threat model?"


the implication appears to be two fold:

1. good security journalism, aka "activist journalism", begs forth
selective and retributive prosecution through open-ended legislation
(CFAA, et. al.) as cover.

2. technical sophistication pursuing these prosecutions is now, thanks
to the cyber-industrial-complex, at a point where law enforcement uses
techniques recently considered nation state intelligence caliber.


thus to pursue "activist security journalism" that is not powers that
be sanctioned "mainstream security regurgitation" journalism,

your threat model is:
 securing yourself and your sources against
  nation state dragnet and targeted attacks,
   including tailored access and special collection.


this is currently considered a "Hard Problem" (TM)(R) even with
decades dedicated to the challenge.  i do take hope in the fact that
most earth humans are not coding to hard problems, but instead to
easy, well paying ones.  perhaps different incentives will play a
bigger role for security?




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 03:09:26 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 03:09:26 -0800
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how close
 the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick" their
 populace]
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>

"... 12,949 individuals would immediately be detained as a likely
threat to national security for their ties to "subversive
organizations."
 ^- your threat model also includes advance observation of unilateral
relocations . ;)



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: MuckRock <info at muckrock.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 11:00:09 +0000
Subject: Cold War-era FBI memos show how close the US came to
declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick" their populace

** The top secret Cold War plan to bring the United States under martial law
------------------------------------------------------------


** 12,949 individuals would immediately be detained as a likely threat
to national security for their ties to "subversive organizations."
------------------------------------------------------------

Starting on April 19, 1956, the federal government practiced and
planned for a near-doomsday scenario known as Plan C. When activated,
Plan C would have brought the United States under martial law, rounded
up over ten thousand individuals connected to "subversive"
organizations, implemented a censorship board, and prepared the
country for life after nuclear attack.

There was no Plan A or B.



** In Florida, clear guidelines give private prisons priority
------------------------------------------------------------
Those with serious medical or psychological issues are left to the state

Do private prisons “cherry pick” inmates, leaving state Corrections
departments saddled with offenders in need of more expensive care?
While it’s not quite selecting from a line up, they do set the
guidelines for who’s in or out.


** North Carolina’s 1033 program data is clearly public, says state
Attorney General
------------------------------------------------------------


** "Air Force Cyber Vision 2025" includes quantum processors,
self-healing code, and next-gen "cyber-warriors"
------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
Copyright © 2015 MuckRock, All rights reserved.
 You're receiving this e-mail because you're either a member of
MuckRock.com or asked to stay in touch with what we're up to.

Our mailing address is:
MuckRock
135 William T Morrissey Blvd ‎
Dorchester, Massachusetts 02125
USA




From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Jan 29 23:49:10 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:49:10 +0200
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28mB84be9xSKTN+3AN-L36HCrfRLDPu_Rk5pW9p_Jf92A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAD2Ti28mB84be9xSKTN+3AN-L36HCrfRLDPu_Rk5pW9p_Jf92A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150130074910.GB2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 05:42:49PM -0500, grarpamp wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> > Just a bit of media manipulation and selected
> > excerpts of this list might marginalize the term
> > "cypherpunk".
> 
> Cypherpunk become savvy media manipulator too
> like politicians. At least this list has evidence of
> inteligient rational applied thought to pull from, where
> a lot of born poiticians are just greasy things that care
> not for problems but for themselves.
>
SNIP

Hopefully last post in this thread due to common sense.

I well might be wrong, this happens.

You didn't convince me, but really wish you success!

-- 
The optimist learns English.
The pessimist learns Chinese.
The realist learns Kalashnikov rifle.





From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Jan 30 00:19:28 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:19:28 +0200
Subject: Bill Gates is worried about artificial intelligence too
Message-ID: <20150130081928.GC2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>

http://www.cnet.com/news/bill-gates-is-worried-about-artificial-intelligence-too/

Microsoft's co-founder and former CEO is the latest luminary from the
world of technology and science to warn against the threat of smart
machines.

=====

My comments:

I am worried about _any_ device using anything from
M$.

So if Gates (who has unorthodoxal opinion about complexity
of factoring PRIMES) is _really_ worried about this, he
MUST freeze all AI projects at M$.

This reminds me of the quote:

---
``It would be fun some day, Turing, to listen to a discussion, say on
the Fourth Programme, between two machines on why human beings think
that they think! ''
--Sir Geoffrey Jefferson (in: `Can Automatic Calculating Machines Be
Said to Think?', by M.H.A. Newman et al., a BBC broadcast recorded 10
Jan. 1952, Turing Archives, reprinted in ch. 7 of `The Turing Test', S.
Shieber, ed., MIT Press, 2004.)
---
http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/quotes.html




From list at sysfu.com  Fri Jan 30 11:13:06 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 11:13:06 -0800
Subject: How the CIA Made Google
In-Reply-To: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <op.xtaib4i3bgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 06:30:58 -0800, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e
>
> Fascinating research, with gobs of suspects besides TLAs, Brin and Page,
> some here now, some here back then, as suspected then and now. Not
> that there is anything wrong with suspecting cpunks was made similarly.

Related Documentary: http://www.worldbrainthefilm.com/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 10:17:36 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 13:17:36 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.nsa-observer.net/
https://github.com/nsa-observer/

fyi, coderman et al.




From ryacko at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 14:33:43 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 14:33:43 -0800
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i1xCHqJ=AXtS8hYzOfpRWeTrnShGqEK1Fmvp-m6q4pJYw@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps the best solution is the final solution.

Legalize assassination politics.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 11:39:48 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 14:39:48 -0500
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29gGAYGZPrygcAoXhyrhh9z8dOs-s_3upcsU_YmojMR0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 03:09:26AM -0800, coderman wrote:
>> ...Martial Law...
>
> I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.

When your country goes to war/shit, there is little difference.
These sorts of mix of rumors and facts have been circulating
since at least WWII, along with UFO's and other fun things.
Search terms: NWO, REX84, FEMA, AREA-51, etc... the list
goes on and on and on. Having actual facts on paper is
always good to hold perspective and enable analysis.

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2015/jan/26/plan-c-top-secret-cold-war-battle-plan-bring-unite/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_emergency




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 12:15:44 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 15:15:44 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54cac2e7.e16a8c0a.5e6a.ffff9332@mx.google.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54caa84e.ca25e00a.73e7.ffff817b@mx.google.com>
 <14b37f3cea0.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <14b37f4f780.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <54cac2e7.e16a8c0a.5e6a.ffff9332@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti287MEPPtxyEo19rosBN+t4sdbG8Z0tYLyLjQzxUvxOccA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:09:37 -0800
> "shelley at misanthropia.org" <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:

>> And we will bomb the shit out of... er, i mean bring our civilized
>         It can't be helped. It's god's will.
Insha'Allah




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Jan 30 07:08:06 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 17:08:06 +0200
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 03:09:26AM -0800, coderman wrote:
> ...Martial Law...

I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.

1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?

Since communism/advanced socialism is discussed:

2. What is the difference between torturing innocent people without trial
and (say) Stalin's approach to his sheeple (besides the scale)?


[-1]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture&oldid=643173952#Examples_of_torture_and_abuse_of_prisoners
-1 is permanent link, feel free to check current




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 14:58:38 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 17:58:38 -0500
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
In-Reply-To: <54CACE61.7040501@riseup.net>
References: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop> <1553778.22Ie05jM8e@lapuntu>
 <54CACE61.7040501@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28aCCyr-DoAZRaSTK87eHLRnAydOy+a-2PcpXF8oQmFJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> http://rys.io/en/54
>>  The funny part is: we had flying drones in the form of RC planes and copters
>>  for years upon years and nobody thought about banning them. Moreover, these

http://towerhobbies.com/

Hobbyists, tinkerers and hacks (and various baddies unrelated to them)
won't care about such bans. They'll just add relatively untraceable, unjammable,
SDR wideband radio as their remote control.

> How about this? http://sourceforge.net/projects/osmissile/
> History: http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/bio.shtml
> This was squashed, as I recall.

http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

Squashing inhibits the source of new tech at its very roots, the backyard.
And kills off innocently fun applications of same.

The way the US, UK, and other places have been acting lately,
they'd be happy with bombing your crypto back to the stone age.
Open up your local hackerspace today!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2506549/Uh-oh-Radioactive-Boy-Scout-built-nuclear-reactor-Detroit-shed-sparking-evacuation-40-000-wants-invent-lightbulb-lasts-100-years.html
http://www.spacex.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Q-Tel
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=backyard+invention




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 15:10:19 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i1xCHqJ=AXtS8hYzOfpRWeTrnShGqEK1Fmvp-m6q4pJYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i1xCHqJ=AXtS8hYzOfpRWeTrnShGqEK1Fmvp-m6q4pJYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29n=BhyKV9SVrgcWhdfwviopCToD3N2qUhHU82NxqkpdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> Legalize assassination politics.

Whether they're "real" or not, there are [or were] at least
a few pools set up in the various darknets. Tor-talk probably
had a relavent thread on them.




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 18:29:03 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:29:03 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://www.nsa-observer.net/
> https://github.com/nsa-observer/
>
> fyi, coderman et al.


thanks, checking them out. one thing i don't see mentioned is how the
OCR was performed. same as Reuters DocumentCloud service, or open
source tool, or ?

next bigsun update will demonstrate this challenge better, as i am
using a handful of techniques for text extraction, character
recognition, and annotation, as well.  in a sense, this is how the
sausage making gets started...

(i will see if there is a convenient way i can feed back out again,
like to nsa-observer, since bigsun is intended to be operated entirely
within hidden services - no public services, especially not github or
document cloud)


best regards,




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 15:39:14 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 18:39:14 -0500
Subject: Spies LEVITATE infohounds, filesharers, and Glee watchers
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_rKGKvky0xeG4cEp1T2dS8PcgFk3UTHDJKQ=X0ynMHDQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.cbc.ca/news/cse-tracks-millions-of-downloads-daily-snowden-documents-1.2930120
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/28/canada-cse-levitation-mass-surveillance/

So what do you do if you're a vast global adversary network of old
chums, with unlimited resources, a world citizenry that is perhaps
becoming unafraid of terrists as background noise, and some might
say an authority to keep?

Why, sit back and spy on everyday knowledge seekers, file sharers
and you tubers of course!

Everything cypherpunks were saying in 1984 is coming true.
The story continues...




From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan 30 18:33:18 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 19:33:18 -0700
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54CB64A2.307@gothic.com.au>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$> <54CAD2E8.2040306@riseup.net>
 <54CB64A2.307@gothic.com.au>
Message-ID: <54CC3EEE.7040006@riseup.net>

On 01/30/2015 04:01 AM, Goran Novak wrote:
> On 30/01/2015 11:40 AM, Mirimir wrote:
>>
>> With some exceptions (batshit crazy ideologues, for the most part)
>> communism in practice has basically been kleptocracy. Ditto for
>> democracy (whether capitalist or socialist). Powerful just distract
>> sheeple in different ways.
> Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek:
> κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2]
> hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government
> corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth
> and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense
> of the wider population, often with pretense of honest service.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy
> 
> Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal)[1][2] is a
> socioeconomic system structured upon the common ownership of the means
> of production and characterized by the absence of social classes,
> money,[3][4] and the state; as well as a social, political and economic
> ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
> 
> Communism has not been ever put to practice.

Yes, that was my point. I should have said "alleged communism" and
"alleged democracy".

>>> The politicians are essentially the same IMHO.
>> In my experience, yes.
>>
>>> It is hard for me to tell which implementation
>>> sucks more.
>> They all suck. So it goes.
>>
> 
> 




From mirimir at riseup.net  Fri Jan 30 19:19:11 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 20:19:11 -0700
Subject: [tor-talk] Tor -> VPN Clarification
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-32qPOMg+rGnQ=ph23UN08CN0ojsX5bDOzYBhCs-nbiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54CB577A.9000100@riseup.net> <54CB59D5.5040300@riseup.net>
 <54CB5D63.5000108@techwang.com> <54CB689A.3010402@riseup.net>
 <op.xtahyknnbgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <54CC27AE.5060805@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti2-32qPOMg+rGnQ=ph23UN08CN0ojsX5bDOzYBhCs-nbiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CC49AF.30703@riseup.net>

On 01/30/2015 06:48 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> JonDoNym / JAP
> 
> I'm seeing references to this tool pop up recently in various
> places. Keep in mind the controversie from years ago
> and read the label on the tin carefully. That's not to say
> it's not fit for use once you understand its fitness.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Anon_Proxy

I replied on tor-talk.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Jan 30 12:35:23 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 20:35:23 +0000
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54CBEB0B.8090904@cathalgarvey.me>

 > I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
 >
 > 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
 > torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?

Literally, Martial law means you can be shot for breaking the orders of 
the designated enforcers. It represents "ad hoc, brutalist law" in 
common usage.

On 30/01/15 15:08, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 03:09:26AM -0800, coderman wrote:
>> ...Martial Law...
>
> I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
>
> 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
> torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?
>
> Since communism/advanced socialism is discussed:
>
> 2. What is the difference between torturing innocent people without trial
> and (say) Stalin's approach to his sheeple (besides the scale)?
>
>
> [-1]:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Senate_Intelligence_Committee_report_on_CIA_torture&oldid=643173952#Examples_of_torture_and_abuse_of_prisoners
> -1 is permanent link, feel free to check current
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 17:48:18 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 20:48:18 -0500
Subject: [tor-talk] Tor -> VPN Clarification
In-Reply-To: <54CC27AE.5060805@riseup.net>
References: <54CB577A.9000100@riseup.net> <54CB59D5.5040300@riseup.net>
 <54CB5D63.5000108@techwang.com> <54CB689A.3010402@riseup.net>
 <op.xtahyknnbgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <54CC27AE.5060805@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-32qPOMg+rGnQ=ph23UN08CN0ojsX5bDOzYBhCs-nbiw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> JonDoNym / JAP

I'm seeing references to this tool pop up recently in various
places. Keep in mind the controversie from years ago
and read the label on the tin carefully. That's not to say
it's not fit for use once you understand its fitness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Anon_Proxy




From goran at gothic.com.au  Fri Jan 30 03:01:54 2015
From: goran at gothic.com.au (Goran Novak)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 22:01:54 +1100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54CAD2E8.2040306@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$> <54CAD2E8.2040306@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54CB64A2.307@gothic.com.au>

On 30/01/2015 11:40 AM, Mirimir wrote:
>
> With some exceptions (batshit crazy ideologues, for the most part)
> communism in practice has basically been kleptocracy. Ditto for
> democracy (whether capitalist or socialist). Powerful just distract
> sheeple in different ways.
Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: 
κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] 
hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government 
corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth 
and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense 
of the wider population, often with pretense of honest service.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal)[1][2] is a 
socioeconomic system structured upon the common ownership of the means 
of production and characterized by the absence of social classes, 
money,[3][4] and the state; as well as a social, political and economic 
ideology and movement that aims to establish this social order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism has not been ever put to practice.
>
>> The politicians are essentially the same IMHO.
> In my experience, yes.
>
>> It is hard for me to tell which implementation
>> sucks more.
> They all suck. So it goes.
>




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 20:40:36 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:40:36 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-+bU2g+XVdpNod41n2wgzKxF6rmxcvtTm-EWVX=fR6iw@mail.gmail.com>

n Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 9:29 PM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> thanks, checking them out. one thing i don't see mentioned is how the
> OCR was performed. same as Reuters DocumentCloud service, or open
> source tool, or ?

> next bigsun update will demonstrate this challenge better, as i am
> using a handful of techniques for text extraction, character
> recognition, and annotation, as well.  in a sense, this is how the
> sausage making gets started...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_optical_character_recognition_software

Or cheap labor from $thirdworld? Crowdsourcing? For that matter,
funding from special interests for a dedicated natural language
team would probably not be too hard to find if their ROI for input
to later analysis was good.

> (i will see if there is a convenient way i can feed back out again,
> like to nsa-observer, since bigsun is intended to be operated entirely
> within hidden services - no public services, especially not github or
> document cloud)

I see no problem with running cool projects even exclusively
within darknets. Announcements/links will find their way out to
clearnet. Those who wish to join or read will do so and be
exposed to learning and running some new privacy/crypto tech
needed to get to it as a byproduct. It's a win. More people
should do it for their related projects. And so long as the
darknets can be made to scale, in general.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 30 20:58:38 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:58:38 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-+bU2g+XVdpNod41n2wgzKxF6rmxcvtTm-EWVX=fR6iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-+bU2g+XVdpNod41n2wgzKxF6rmxcvtTm-EWVX=fR6iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28Dd7g2MmNrs4S8if1rGMP7qmqu56aeovFa4PPS7W-2Ww@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:40 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_optical_character_recognition_software

https://www.google.com/search?q="(pdftotxt|pdf2txt)"
http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/python/pdfminer/
 Note the "Sudden resurge of interests".

As a hack you could just auto iterate display and screenshot
of each page/slide of whatever doctype and shove them
through ocr for fun.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 01:43:08 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 01:43:08 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-+bU2g+XVdpNod41n2wgzKxF6rmxcvtTm-EWVX=fR6iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti2-+bU2g+XVdpNod41n2wgzKxF6rmxcvtTm-EWVX=fR6iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1S8LUUEEXP+tBQeGAVb3zCBDd=MMQDz4gXm6T0q=KD4ow@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/30/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> Or cheap labor from $thirdworld? Crowdsourcing?

this is a longer story, but yes, i'm using a handful of all of the
above. some are better than others. (and some proprietary tools, as
well)


> For that matter,
> funding from special interests for a dedicated natural language
> team would probably not be too hard to find if their ROI for input
> to later analysis was good.

i'm no good at funding, but cursory efforts were not productive.

part of my problem is focus on SIGINT/NatSec, when general purpose
tools would suffice. no one wants to touch the hot potato unless
they're already knee deep in the mash.


> I see no problem with running cool projects even exclusively
> within darknets. Announcements/links will find their way out to
> clearnet. Those who wish to join or read will do so and be
> exposed to learning and running some new privacy/crypto tech
> needed to get to it as a byproduct. It's a win. More people
> should do it for their related projects. And so long as the
> darknets can be made to scale, in general.

scaling distribution of tens of gigs of reference materials is a
challenge. technically it is working, but usability needs some help...
(next dist should be easier to mirror)

thanks grarpamp!

best regards,




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 31 05:59:18 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 08:59:18 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Swell initiatives by all the Snowden distributors. Except most
fall prey to PDF manipulation of tagging, implanting, tracking,
by willful intent or by technical ignorance.

It is virtually impossible to sanitize PDFs due to Adobe's inherent
design to meticulously spy on use of its products as well as
deluded user attempts to hide who, when, what, how by users
from creation to modification to wiping to stego to signing to
forging to stinging. Image or accessible-text or other PDF
formats, locked, redacted, watermarked, et al.

Well behind and below the metadata Adobe allows users and
abusers to see, lurks Adobe's advanced persistent meta-meta
to aim for NSA/Tor-multi-level obscurantism by which accessible
meta is used to hide inaccessible. Below dark is darker, ever
darkening as new tools are developed to pry farther into the
less visible and off-oscilloscopic spectrum. DoD issued today
a short directive on the Center for Countermeasures and
Counter-Countermeasures (including cyberweapons like PDFs).

Presume NSA, aided by Adobe, has tracked, will track, Snowden's
material in all its iterations from the time he snatched it to
the latest distributor, consumer and secret archiver in Oahu,
Maryland, Hong Kong, Berlin, Rio, NYC, DC, online and off.

PDFs (and DOCs) are more treacherous than log files, backdoors,
0-days, APTs, what have you due to their popularity. HTM and TXT
are much safer. Courier fonts are safer than other fonts, especially
those promoted by Adobe and others who use fonts to spy (all
rationalized as protection of IP -- ie, comparable to natsec).

At 09:29 PM 1/30/2015, you wrote:
>On 1/30/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> > https://www.nsa-observer.net/
> > https://github.com/nsa-observer/
> >
> > fyi, coderman et al.
>
>
>thanks, checking them out. one thing i don't see mentioned is how the
>OCR was performed. same as Reuters DocumentCloud service, or open
>source tool, or ?
>
>next bigsun update will demonstrate this challenge better, as i am
>using a handful of techniques for text extraction, character
>recognition, and annotation, as well.  in a sense, this is how the
>sausage making gets started...
>
>(i will see if there is a convenient way i can feed back out again,
>like to nsa-observer, since bigsun is intended to be operated entirely
>within hidden services - no public services, especially not github or
>document cloud)
>
>
>best regards,





From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 31 07:14:47 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 10:14:47 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] How the CIA Made Google
In-Reply-To: <E1YH1NS-0008DK-EK@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <E1YH1NS-0008DK-EK@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E1YHZjw-0006Y1-Cd@elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

An early program of Highlands Group was perception management by
which public opinion would be shaped by disparagement of opposition
to ubiquitous gov-com spying with gambits like "tin-foil hat," "conspiracy
theory," and other forms of reputation attacks. Chorusing these terms
becomes habitual with repetition, even among those who are otherwise
open-minded to novel scientific and theological innovations so long as
the innovations are peer-reviewed or sanctioned by authorities, even
when the authorities are revealed to be self-serving and corrupt, perhaps
especially so. That is the crippling effects of standards setting in all
human endeavors, the favoritism toward standards setting obedient
members and ostacism of dissenters to the dominants.

Fortunately, the tin-hatters and conspiriacists overturn the sclerotic
hegemons if not burned at the stake, imprisoned, die of impoverishment,
driven to suicide. Mercy is never a characteristic of certitude and
maddened crowd-minds compelled to admire miters, crowns, helmets,
wigs of judmentalist soothsayers self-anointed deitific and scientific
absolutist perception managers -- also known as spymasters.


At 09:31 PM 1/29/2015, Henry Baker wrote:
>At 06:30 AM 1/29/2015, John Young wrote:
> >https://medium.com/@NafeezAhmed/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e
> >
> >Fascinating research, with gobs of suspects besides TLAs, Brin and Page,
> >some here now, some here back then, as suspected then and now. Not
> >that there is anything wrong with suspecting cpunks was made similarly.
>
>In the same vein, but with a bit less tin foil hattery:
>
>http://steveblank.com/secret-history/





From bbrewer at littledystopia.net  Sat Jan 31 08:41:48 2015
From: bbrewer at littledystopia.net (Benjamin Brewer)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 11:41:48 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>


> On Jan 31, 2015, at 8:59 AM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> 
> Swell initiatives by all the Snowden distributors. Except most
> fall prey to PDF manipulation of tagging, implanting, tracking,
> by willful intent or by technical ignorance.
> 
> It is virtually impossible to sanitize PDFs due to Adobe's inherent
> design to meticulously spy on use of its products as well as
> deluded user attempts to hide who, when, what, how by users
> from creation to modification to wiping to stego to signing to
> forging to stinging. Image or accessible-text or other PDF
> formats, locked, redacted, watermarked, et al.
> 

Pardon my ignorance about this, and I will do my own research, but do these hidden formattings/stego/call-home functions disappear, get mutilated, become broken when ‘converting’ such PDF documents to other document types via use of many ‘conversion’ tools (Calibre comes to mind instantly) or are these embedded organisms a persistent across any automated conversion routine?

Cheers,
Benjamin





From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 31 09:39:11 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 12:39:11 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E1YHbz7-0003lz-Fl@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Depends on the converter, whether it keeps the Adobe spying
features witting or unwitting -- which it may be aware of or not.
And whether it has a deal with Adobe to retain disguised.

Adode hidden code is quite devious -- for example it may remain
hidden to use the converted version as a host germ carrier to
propagate itself, following the bio model in our guts to use
feces as fertilizer.

Be careful about using free products, such as Adobe Reader
and free converters of formats of all kinds. They often contain
germs similar to the way NSA and other spies implant germs
in innocuous programs and platforms -- "free" is as devious as
"open" to those who exploit public trust in freedom and openness.
Journalism a prime exploiter under the brand of freedom of the
press to exploit with constitutional protection.

Gmail is one of the most notorious germ transmitters. Tor not quite
as evil, but less because newer than the Internet itself, the Internet
Archive, Wikipedia, social media, PGP, and many more which may
have had noble origins but have been adopted (and bought) by
converters of good to evil -- most readily by government contracts,
vulture capitalism, desparately broke and in debt, entrapment and
coercion by law enforement -- or all of them.

This list is beyond good and evil, thus spoke Zarathrusta, aka
TCM, JG, EH. Though those gods are dead.

Benjamin Brewer wrote:

 > On Jan 31, 2015, at 8:59 AM, John Young 
<<https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks>jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
 >
 > Swell initiatives by all the Snowden distributors. Except most
 > fall prey to PDF manipulation of tagging, implanting, tracking,
 > by willful intent or by technical ignorance.
 >
 > It is virtually impossible to sanitize PDFs due to Adobe's inherent
 > design to meticulously spy on use of its products as well as
 > deluded user attempts to hide who, when, what, how by users
 > from creation to modification to wiping to stego to signing to
 > forging to stinging. Image or accessible-text or other PDF
 > formats, locked, redacted, watermarked, et al.
 >

Pardon my ignorance about this, and I will do my own research, but do 
these hidden formattings/stego/call-home functions disappear, get 
mutilated, become broken when 'converting' such PDF documents to 
other document types via use of many 'conversion' tools (Calibre 
comes to mind instantly) or are these embedded organisms a persistent 
across any automated conversion routine?

Cheers,
Benjamin


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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 31 06:02:44 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:02:44 +0100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti287MEPPtxyEo19rosBN+t4sdbG8Z0tYLyLjQzxUvxOccA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54cac2e7.e16a8c0a.5e6a.ffff9332@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti287MEPPtxyEo19rosBN+t4sdbG8Z0tYLyLjQzxUvxOccA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1695873.YLoGQs6Fg2@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 30 stycznia 2015 15:15:44 grarpamp pisze:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:09:37 -0800
> > 
> > "shelley at misanthropia.org" <shelley at misanthropia.org> wrote:
> >> And we will bomb the shit out of... er, i mean bring our civilized
> >> 
> >         It can't be helped. It's god's will.
> 
> Insha'Allah

Shalom alaykum.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 31 06:11:58 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:11:58 +0100
Subject: Spies LEVITATE infohounds, filesharers, and Glee watchers
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_rKGKvky0xeG4cEp1T2dS8PcgFk3UTHDJKQ=X0ynMHDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_rKGKvky0xeG4cEp1T2dS8PcgFk3UTHDJKQ=X0ynMHDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1737085.soARWq5SQ5@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 30 stycznia 2015 18:39:14 grarpamp pisze:
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/cse-tracks-millions-of-downloads-daily-snowden-docume
> nts-1.2930120
> https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/28/canada-cse-levitation-mass-su
> rveillance/
> 
> So what do you do if you're a vast global adversary network of old
> chums, with unlimited resources, a world citizenry that is perhaps
> becoming unafraid of terrists as background noise, and some might
> say an authority to keep?
> 
> Why, sit back and spy on everyday knowledge seekers, file sharers
> and you tubers of course!

Wasn't that the main idea all the time? Cf.:

1. http://www.stratfor.com/obstacles_capture_osama_bin_laden
tl;dr NSA-style spying doesn't really help that much in "anti-terrorism"

2. http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/05/24/why-does-the-nsa-engage-in-mass-surveillance-of-americans-when-it-s-statistically-impossible-for-such-spying-to-detect-terrorists/
tl;dr it is statistically impossible to have profiling (based, say, on dragnet 
surveillance) work well on large populations -- too many false positives and 
false negatives.

1. & 2. can be safely assumed to be known for the NSA and powers that are. So 
obviously anti-terrorism is not the real aim of all this. What is?

Shall we quote 2.?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Suppose that NSA’s system is really, really, really good, really,
really good, with an accuracy rate of .90, and a misidentification
rate of .00001, which means that only 3,000 innocent people are
misidentified as terrorists. With these suppositions, then the
probability that people are terrorists given that NSA’s system of
surveillance identifies them as terrorists is only p=0.2308, which is
far from one and well below flipping a coin. NSA’s domestic monitoring
of everyone’s email and phone calls is useless for finding terrorists.

NSA knows this. Bayes’ Theorem is elementary common knowledge.

Also, mass surveillance of the entire population is logically
plausible if NSA’s domestic spying is not looking for terrorists, but
looking for something else, something that is not so rare as
terrorists. For example, the May 19 Fox News opinion poll of 900
registered voters found that 30% dislike the Bush administration so
much they want him impeached. If NSA were monitoring email and phone
calls to identify pro-impeachment people, and if the accuracy rate
were .90 and the error rate were .01, then the probability that people
are pro-impeachment given that NSA surveillance system identified them
as such, would be p=.98, which is coming close to certainty (p_1.00).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> Everything cypherpunks were saying in 1984 is coming true.
> The story continues...

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 31 06:14:26 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:14:26 +0100
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2099489.qgx9fCPNvt@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 30 stycznia 2015 13:17:36 grarpamp pisze:
> https://www.nsa-observer.net/
> https://github.com/nsa-observer/

Wonder how long it will take GitHub to start taking down such "problematic" 
projects.

> fyi, coderman et al.

Cool.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 31 06:15:32 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:15:32 +0100
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1863938.ZY2pHoPlGa@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 30 stycznia 2015 17:08:06 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 03:09:26AM -0800, coderman wrote:
> > ...Martial Law...
> 
> I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
> 
> 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
> torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?

Cathal covered this one.

> Since communism/advanced socialism is discussed:
> 
> 2. What is the difference between torturing innocent people without trial
> and (say) Stalin's approach to his sheeple (besides the scale)?

None.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Jan 31 06:17:31 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:17:31 +0100
Subject: chinese drunk droner crashes spy into white house
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28aCCyr-DoAZRaSTK87eHLRnAydOy+a-2PcpXF8oQmFJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150129020209.GH14804@nl.grid.coop> <54CACE61.7040501@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti28aCCyr-DoAZRaSTK87eHLRnAydOy+a-2PcpXF8oQmFJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50815390.IRypkHtqCa@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 30 stycznia 2015 17:58:38 grarpamp pisze:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >> http://rys.io/en/54
> >> 
> >>  The funny part is: we had flying drones in the form of RC planes and
> >>  copters for years upon years and nobody thought about banning them.
> >>  Moreover, these
> http://towerhobbies.com/
> 
> Hobbyists, tinkerers and hacks (and various baddies unrelated to them)
> won't care about such bans. They'll just add relatively untraceable,
> unjammable, SDR wideband radio as their remote control.

Oh, I have not a shred of doubt about that! Thing is, such a ban (just as with 
encryption[1]) is not about banning 'copters (or encryption). It's about 
making their users easy to prosecute should need arise.

[1] http://rys.io/en/149

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From s at ctrlc.hu  Sat Jan 31 06:39:25 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:39:25 +0100
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <2099489.qgx9fCPNvt@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2099489.qgx9fCPNvt@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150131143925.GG7598@ctrlc.hu>

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 03:14:26PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> Wonder how long it will take GitHub to start taking down such "problematic" 
> projects.

and rightly so! wtf do you need js for accessing this content, surely only to
get a foothold in the interested parties host.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 16:06:13 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 16:06:13 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/15, Benjamin Brewer <bbrewer at littledystopia.net> wrote:
> ...
> Pardon my ignorance about this, and I will do my own research, but do these
> hidden formattings/stego/call-home functions disappear, get mutilated,
> become broken when ‘converting’ such PDF documents to other document types

we can wax lyrical about all the ways to sanitize a boundary through
constraint, perhaps twice over, to be sure?

that said, consider a Qubes OS setup where conversion between formats
(app domains) was always to least complicated, most easy to verify
well formed, even constraint through omission type simplifications,

then a PDF to plain-text 80 column by 42 lines per page fixed width
ASCII printable only

could probably be interpreted into sentences that would be a way to
collaborate separately without excessively leaking information among
participants, maybe.

in other words, PDFs and similar rich, obfuscated types are the
adversaries playground. does this mean all PDFs are compromised? Of
course not. But if you're a target, a specific PDF of specific
structure could very well be an effective honey token and target you
precisely.



> ...
> via use of many ‘conversion’ tools (Calibre comes to mind instantly) or are
> these embedded organisms a persistent across any automated conversion
> routine?

consider a watermark, that resized half, still persists. this is the
kind of meta leval manipulation of structure you may see in a rich
document (PDF) that could still persist in some transformations.

in other words, it depends on your threat model - who is tainting your
documents in-line, silently, without your awares,

and how complicated the formats and resulting transformations.


as another example, this is why referencing even simplified subsets of
text by a self certifying identifier, like
afb1e384e450d644703ad96cdfe9f728be509854388687eb65b7c622e2f798a9 ,
e.g. bigsundaawafn36e.onion/shid/afb/1e3/afb1e384e450d644..5b7c622e2f798a9
,
 or http://sunshineeevvocqr.onion/bigsun/raw/afb1e384e450d644..5b7c622e2f798a9
which is the same paragraph in ascii no matter PDF or Word or HTML
origin simplified to text paragraph.

then, mutually un-trusting individuals collaborating from a distance,
can use this shared address space as the base for cooperation.

if that doesn't make sense, i will explain it better, later, :)


best regards,




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 16:09:53 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 16:09:53 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
 <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TJ1QzPjMoAO1m6fAsHTsS1w8=s3c1NjA7JaMkjxz1HJA@mail.gmail.com>

and yes, some absolutely call home. e.g. the embedded tracking pixels and kin.

you should always load complex formats from a safe container without
network access! (if you care)

these are also the most easily stripped out from a simple format
conversion, as well. (pdf2txt, etc.)


best regards,




From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Jan 31 07:24:02 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:24:02 +0200
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <54CBEB0B.8090904@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54CBEB0B.8090904@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150131152402.GA2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 08:35:23PM +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> > I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
> >
> > 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
> > torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?
> 
> Literally, Martial law means you can be shot for breaking the orders
> of the designated enforcers. It represents "ad hoc, brutalist law"
> in common usage.
>

Thank you.

You mean something like the 2014 Ferguson unrest
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2014_Ferguson_unrest&oldid=644092498
where "police established curfews and deployed riot squads to maintain
order."?

curfew == вечерен час?




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sat Jan 31 09:59:39 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:59:39 +0000
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54CD180B.9070708@cathalgarvey.me>

Just don't forget to use markov chains + blot-width inference to fill in 
the censored portions. :)

On 31/01/15 02:29, coderman wrote:
> On 1/30/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>> https://www.nsa-observer.net/
>> https://github.com/nsa-observer/
>>
>> fyi, coderman et al.
>
>
> thanks, checking them out. one thing i don't see mentioned is how the
> OCR was performed. same as Reuters DocumentCloud service, or open
> source tool, or ?
>
> next bigsun update will demonstrate this challenge better, as i am
> using a handful of techniques for text extraction, character
> recognition, and annotation, as well.  in a sense, this is how the
> sausage making gets started...
>
> (i will see if there is a convenient way i can feed back out again,
> like to nsa-observer, since bigsun is intended to be operated entirely
> within hidden services - no public services, especially not github or
> document cloud)
>
>
> best regards,
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 18:03:05 2015
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:03:05 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <E1YHiq6-0000kC-MH@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
 <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TJ1QzPjMoAO1m6fAsHTsS1w8=s3c1NjA7JaMkjxz1HJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHiq6-0000kC-MH@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=i+iXZ3BRCnTkiGngKCQnEVvwPR+Mwnk971_U8Dk279_Ag@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 4:58 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> Acrobat needed to see the Additional Metadata, Reader does not show.
>

For Ubuntu users:

sudo apt-get install libimage-exiftool-perl
exiftool -a -G1
adobe-acrobat-xi-scan-paper-to-pdf-and-apply-ocr-tutorial-ue.pdf  | less -S
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sat Jan 31 10:07:30 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal Garvey)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:07:30 +0000
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <20150131152402.GA2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$> <54CBEB0B.8090904@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150131152402.GA2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54CD19E2.6000903@cathalgarvey.me>

Close, very close. Martial law would be if Ferguson protestors were 
actually shot for breaking the orders. It's the ultimate expression of 
Ferguson; think Syria, or Egypt.

On 31/01/15 15:24, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 08:35:23PM +0000, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>> I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
>>>
>>> 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
>>> torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?
>>
>> Literally, Martial law means you can be shot for breaking the orders
>> of the designated enforcers. It represents "ad hoc, brutalist law"
>> in common usage.
>>
>
> Thank you.
>
> You mean something like the 2014 Ferguson unrest
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2014_Ferguson_unrest&oldid=644092498
> where "police established curfews and deployed riot squads to maintain
> order."?
>
> curfew == вечерен час?
>

-- 
Twitter:  @onetruecathal
Phone: +353876363185
miniLock: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM
peerio.com: Use email or phone. Uses above miniLock key.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sat Jan 31 17:12:21 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:12:21 -0700
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <54CD7D75.7080503@riseup.net>

On 01/31/2015 06:59 AM, John Young wrote:
> Swell initiatives by all the Snowden distributors. Except most
> fall prey to PDF manipulation of tagging, implanting, tracking,
> by willful intent or by technical ignorance.

<much cool stuff snipped>

I don't see this as an issue for processors and distributors, as long as
their OPSEC is adequate. We may prudently assume that Snowden's
originals were tagged, watermarked, implanted, and so on. Given that, I
trust that everyone working with the documents has behaved accordingly.
If they haven't, it's all too likely that identities and relationships
have been inadvertently been revealed. Son las cosas de la vida.

But for casual enthusiasts and the general public, this could be a
serious issue. Even if documents were obtained securely, they could
phone home. Scans by anti-malware apps could be uploaded to servers.
Cloud-backup providers might look for them. ...

How might one prevent that? What comes to mind is a Tor hidden-service
site that serves scrubbed images, and doesn't readily permit downloads.
While OCR would be essential in processing documents, serving text
arguably puts users at risk. Maybe that's obvious.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 15:38:42 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:38:42 -0500
Subject: US Wiretap Report 2013
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti298GUv886U9cXUhGfiH0H320u_P8RxQZO-MNSMBKw_WAQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.uscourts.gov/Statistics/WiretapReports/wiretap-report-2013.aspx

According to Snowden and other sources... their numbers seem a little low.




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Jan 31 16:58:49 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 19:58:49 -0500
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TJ1QzPjMoAO1m6fAsHTsS1w8=s3c1NjA7JaMkjxz1HJA@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
 <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TJ1QzPjMoAO1m6fAsHTsS1w8=s3c1NjA7JaMkjxz1HJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1YHiq6-0000kC-MH@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

A sample 1-page PDF by Adobe with over 500 metadata
visible under "Properties" "Additional Metadata" "Advanced"

http://cryptome.org/adobe-acrobat-xi-scan-paper-to-pdf-and-apply-ocr-tutorial-ue.pdf

Acrobat needed to see the Additional Metadata, Reader does not show.

Curious 464 metadata under "xmpMM:History (bag container)".

And many more hidden but perusable with text scrutiny of the PDF.





From guninski at guninski.com  Sat Jan 31 10:08:05 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 20:08:05 +0200
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <20150131143925.GG7598@ctrlc.hu>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2099489.qgx9fCPNvt@lapuntu> <20150131143925.GG7598@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <20150131180805.GB2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 03:39:25PM +0100, stef wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 03:14:26PM +0100, rysiek wrote:
> > Wonder how long it will take GitHub to start taking down such "problematic" 
> > projects.
> 
> and rightly so! wtf do you need js for accessing this content, surely only to
> get a foothold in the interested parties host.
> 
> -- 
> otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt

indeed, why js?

this certainly can be implemented server side or static.

mozilla (tm) (r) (inc) pissed off the creator of js (BE)
due to made up gay scandal shortly after he came in power.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 15:15:47 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 20:15:47 -0300
Subject: Fusion Centers: IGNITE! [Fwd: Cold War-era FBI memos show how
 close the US came to declaring Martial Law | Private Prisons "cherry pick"
 their populace]
In-Reply-To: <20150131152402.GA2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <CAJVRA1SRwm_-Y+31=Xd9pXYy5bHiX9dWE-P9oHj2s8XP_RJ_wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150130150806.GD2504@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <54CBEB0B.8090904@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150131152402.GA2485@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <54cd618a.a7268c0a.641e.ffffaa18@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:24:02 +0200
Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:

> > > I am not native English speaker, so have 2 questions.
> > >
> > > 1. What is the difference between "Martial Law" and
> > > torturing innocent people without trial [-1]?


	None, as already pointed out. Although I'm guessing your
	question was a rhetorical question and didn't require an
	answer...

> > 
> > Literally, Martial law means you can be shot for breaking the orders
> > of the designated enforcers. 


	Sorry, wrong. Literally martial law means military law. Get a
	dictionary.

	And of course, all state law is martial law when you devote a
	couple of minutes to think the issue trough.



> It represents "ad hoc, brutalist law"
> > in common usage.
> >

> 
> Thank you.
> 
> You mean something like the 2014 Ferguson unrest
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2014_Ferguson_unrest&oldid=644092498
> where "police established curfews and deployed riot squads to maintain
> order."?
> 
> curfew == вечерен час?





From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 17:36:52 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 20:36:52 -0500
Subject: [Cryptography] How the CIA Made Google
In-Reply-To: <CAAMy4UQ961mC3F3My3=MkW61nNbfqoNT4o-HZsOm4ar2aJkbHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1YGq5l-0007bo-6B@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CABrqyHzsQ5u9fPR3-EWiBCFQVJBAcwZGzs-jUWWzPYEZRCvVaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54CABB01.7010701@iang.org>
 <BLU436-SMTP99D33E6D99A0E11272D403C8310@phx.gbl>
 <54CB4A8A.1080901@iang.org>
 <CAAMy4UQ961mC3F3My3=MkW61nNbfqoNT4o-HZsOm4ar2aJkbHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28KwKbkizD3_1oYwtr+D9-p+Nj1XRTbhR8+LS_7-BkLEA@mail.gmail.com>

Previously:
>>> They aren't handing data to NSA?  Show us, how?  The executive
>>> doesn't take their agenda from 'Highlands Forum' ?  Show us, that
>>> you don't. The pipes between data centers are encrypted by keys
>>> that aren't being leaked -- where's the evidence?  Your CSO doesn't
>>> have a phone in his shoe?  Let’s see!

>> Hmmm… proving negatives. Does that have something to do with
>> quantum entanglement?

No, it has to do with good old fashioned integrity, openness and
honesty with the public. People can spot that, or lack thereof,
from miles away.

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Tom Mitchell <mitch at niftyegg.com> wrote:
> I might also note that there has not been (yet?) a Snowden event disclosing
> bad behaviour initiated by Google.

Consensus is that the very first Snodwn release, the PRISM slides
and language therein, indicated some form of bilateral partnership
with a large number of internet companies. Plus the AT&T tap room
thing, and other known early parts of the storyline.
It is unreasonable to assume that there is a strictly arms length,
Judge signed, per transaction basis going on there. Where you
have any relationship at all, loose buddy relationships develop to
various degrees.

> The international nature of Google puts them in a much harder
> place than a TLA as serious blunders could roll up the business
> and give them no place to hide.

Google is an American company. Companies and govts don't
generally wish or extend their secret jewels to offshore risk.
Though occaisionally embassies and corps do get caught
off guard or are bound by certain rules.

> The reality I suspect is: Google protects its data with more
> care than most federal agencies.

Data protection regimen is separate from what you elect to
do with that data. Good regimen makes it easier to control
and manage your plans, ie: classification.

This is not to say these things are true, but that there is
less and/or unconvincing evidence that they are not, and
at least resonable cause to consider that they are.

On innocence...
Why are the Boards, CEO's, Officers and staff of these
companies not speaking up and saying they had and have no
non judicially forced role in the spying of Snowdens revelations?

On resistance...
QWEST (Nacchio) tried to stand up, for a few minutes at least
till resigning and later jailed. Replaced by, AT&T's (Notebaert).
Lavabit (Levison) stood up, and closed. We're now seeing some
companies doing "good things" in this space. But that doesn't
address the original question of innocence or guilt.

On guilt...
Or maybe they're not speaking up because... like the US
refuses to disclose any of the credible terror plots and
bad guys they claim to be rolling up as mass spying result...
maybe its because they have a bit of a problem with their story
there.

Who knows. But if you're clean and can back it, and are in the
middle of a hot mess, keeping silent is a pretty dumb thing to do
for your reputation.

Needs more openness.




From goran at gothic.com.au  Sat Jan 31 03:18:23 2015
From: goran at gothic.com.au (Goran Novak)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 22:18:23 +1100
Subject: Cypherpunk Politics
In-Reply-To: <54CC3EEE.7040006@riseup.net>
References: <CAD2Ti2_pGSsjvnvERDLJn=u_tj8DqTajgV_GAn4DJbotsM-qMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2861460.HQp4W9DS8A@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti291mL=k0O3s3x0itoHitJDmm1w+N5nyD9kbAYgJ1WmNRA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150129094135.GB4387@sivokote.iziade.m$> <54CAD2E8.2040306@riseup.net>
 <54CB64A2.307@gothic.com.au> <54CC3EEE.7040006@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <54CCB9FF.3050801@gothic.com.au>

On 31/01/2015 1:33 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> Yes, that was my point. I should have said "alleged communism" and 
> "alleged democracy".

I don't mind calling existing social systems as "alleged" - democracy or 
corporatrocracy or kleptocracy.
I don't agree with distorted descriptions of theoretical societies;
"oppressive government in communism" - oxymoron; it is a stateless society
"corrupted-money grabbing state in communism" - oxymoron; it is 
moneyless society

After all, an offer of "all natural cake made with unbleached flour and 
nothing but organic ingredients, baked in traditional way" would look 
less appealing if next to the label a statement says "may contain 
poisonous shit"...




From mixmaster at remailer.privacy.at  Sat Jan 31 13:54:23 2015
From: mixmaster at remailer.privacy.at (Anonymous Remailer (austria))
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 22:54:23 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Nafeez's Google History lacks US Customs & Secret Service
Message-ID: <4afa61163d4e9bc2280dbbd34c2eaf4c@remailer.privacy.at>


Nafeez's Google History lacks US Customs & Secret Service 

Re Nafeez's convoluted Google history that neglects to mention altavista et al were seized by us customs and us secret service, held by marshalls until transfer to DHS.

You neglect one of the most important historical factors that merged the commercial civil indexing systems with other monitoring: altavista (and others) was seized by US Customs for illegal export and laundering of stolen copywrite content with US Secret Service for computer crimes. Result was bot indexing rules and Yahoo. ALL of the large search systems are state managed.




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Jan 31 23:16:28 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2015 23:16:28 -0800
Subject: www.nsa-observer.net
In-Reply-To: <CAN9H=i+iXZ3BRCnTkiGngKCQnEVvwPR+Mwnk971_U8Dk279_Ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-8bsR53P6-0DF==S7SvO19MY1WYSiex=N96QDN6pZriQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1Q7s1HLMeH9zv8x88xnRMQ+VSSinptr0BjAUjqQyErJ+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHYYx-0007Fr-5q@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <88F21790-A209-4592-8FF5-A18F7605BADC@littledystopia.net>
 <CAJVRA1TRUh5_KP58RQ7EFzZG7Ryq0Zmo9ijc_iW1b4mD3b1Bvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TJ1QzPjMoAO1m6fAsHTsS1w8=s3c1NjA7JaMkjxz1HJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YHiq6-0000kC-MH@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAN9H=i+iXZ3BRCnTkiGngKCQnEVvwPR+Mwnk971_U8Dk279_Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TKZ5VX-0Z=3VA8XooaOc3aqx2TcoNnsQ_KT8gJ-NKtcA@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/15, Jason McVetta <jason.mcvetta at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> For Ubuntu users:
>
> sudo apt-get install libimage-exiftool-perl
> exiftool -a -G1
> adobe-acrobat-xi-scan-paper-to-pdf-and-apply-ocr-tutorial-ue.pdf  | less -S


per the python PDF tools, (with varied options),
 or reduced option command line pdf2txt, or pdftotext, or
   also:

strings --bytes=$varlength ... with varying --encoding= ... , for as
John mentioned, all the metadatas and annotations typically unseen,


consider that the specific "configuration and input parsing" as a
"profile" for a given "input document" identified by "self certifying
identifier" for all of the above results in collaborative simplified
text paragraphs as a working base.

so sha256(generated corpora) == sha256(sha256(doc)  ^ sha256(config of
parse opts) ^ sha256(parse-product) )

if i use a convenient generated slang, ...

this means at least a dozen "to text" engines with configuration,
(parse opts and parse products) per input document as a working state.

and ten to twenty times the input pages as simplified output text
paragraphs (common base) collected from the useful parts of the best
transformations, used for subsequent text based natural language
processing.

in a sense, this is devops come to document processing, where the
process itself is embodied in version controlled and complete archives
with self certifying integrity. this means boring, and also done
decades ago, more or less, in varying contexts. everything old is new
again ;P

there are a whole field of customer parser and data sets and scrapers
all dedicated to variations on this theme, although sadly they don't
live public lives, for the most part.


best regards,