From mezger.benjamin at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 04:16:00 2015
From: mezger.benjamin at gmail.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 08:16:00 -0300
Subject: Cryptoanarchist slogan
In-Reply-To: <E1YdCaL-0006w3-6J@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>
References: <CAMyHXXdUip3UvY=E5uyqqS-C5BPX-wAS3psCbAQmf7rGfeE2Ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YdCaL-0006w3-6J@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <CAFUJwR-CQ26zyPd=sgME45DXGsFhVtZjuL=+tJvkJLNtA5HjRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Except if you have a secret key somewhere.. :p, which in politics, will be
probably impossible.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz>
wrote:

> >"Encrypt the state and delete the key"
>
> That's not such a good idea, because when you swap your state back in again
> you can't decrypt it any more and end up with a kernel panic.
>
> Peter.
>



-- 
Kind regards,

*Ben Mezger*
www.benmezger.com
GPG Public Key
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7C19F16D575B7C1C>
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From sdw at lig.net  Wed Apr  1 08:32:49 2015
From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 08:32:49 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>

On 4/1/15 5:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
> Alfie John:
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015, at 10:01 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
>>> Looks like Australia has banned use of my idea.
>>>
>>> http://boingboing.net/2015/03/26/australia-outlaws-warrant-cana.html
>>>
>>> If its true that a man's status can be measured by his enemies.. then
>>> I've taken a position at the top of the cypherpunks heap :)
>> How about the reverse? As the point of canaries is to let people know a
>> warrant is in place while thinking that you're not breaking any laws by
>> telling them (good luck), hypothetically why not just be up front and
>> tell people that a warrant is in place via a tor and a hidden service
>> (let's call it WarrantWatch). Each post is a message from an admin of a
>> website saying that a warrant is in place, with the message being signed
>> via the website's TLS private key for verification.
>>
>> Alfie
>>
> So, you're suggesting that instead of going into a legal 'gray area',
> website operators should simply obviously violate the law and then
> publish a non-repudiable cryptographic proof of their lawbreaking.
>
> Am I missing something here?  Is the idea to get everyone flouting the
> law and thereby render it ineffectual, or is it just April Fools?
>
> Andrew

The point of a warrant canary is to communicate in a legal way something that is illegal for you to communicate directly.  That 
involves something like setting laws against each other in some prioritized way or otherwise splitting hairs so that no one can 
technically be prosecuted.  It is a bit of a legal arms race.

You have to find something you cannot be compelled to do or not do. A dead man's switch of some kind where not doing something is 
ambiguous and unassailable.  Can you be required by law to go to Starbucks every morning?  To report or not report on Facebook 
something factual, like you ate Wheaties that morning?  You have a headache?  Something that is protected by a higher priority law, 
although if the First Amendment is trumped by these laws that's going to be difficult.  Perhaps a group of people probabilistically 
do or not do something, but any evidence of collusion would be a problem so they would have to act independently.  Some mechanism 
that relies on someone's thoughts might be sacrosanct.  Visual dwell, polygraph (not that they work at all), etc.

Perhaps every day someone proposes that the warrant canary has triggered, and every day but one someone objects.

Is there or is there not a way to do this legally?  That seems like a gray area, if the First Amendment is trumped, along with other 
legal protections that could apply.
If there is no way to do this legally, what are the ways to dilute the situation as to be effectively legal, i.e. prosecution would 
be unlikely or ineffective?
Since the First Amendment is strained here, reasonable people could conclude that the conflicting law is unconstitutional.  That 
could lead to a sense of responsibility to do the right thing.

sdw

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  1 08:48:05 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 08:48:05 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <551C1335.6000008@riseup.net>



On 04/01/2015 05:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
> flouting the law and thereby render it ineffectual

works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.

Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet provider and
major website operating in the US to court?

Shut down Twitter and Yahoo!'s US ops?

Really!

Note that in the wake of the Snowden dox quite a few high profile
internet providers and services publicly asked the feds to let them
publish what they knew. That ALONE would be in vi-0-lation, wouldn't it?

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From softservant at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 10:04:49 2015
From: softservant at gmail.com (Softy)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 10:04:49 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
Message-ID: <CAGkjMSNZ2KdP-o4C_QoE3OHXeizREkE=-RF4j9OoanTsoERbnQ@mail.gmail.com>

​But that is the point of why there is no safety in "everyone flouting the
law".  Everyone is breaking the law and the persecutors get's to cherry
pick who they will target.  Most likely a pleasant mix of high profile
(with trivial/non-existent penalty) and peon targets (with disproportionate
penalty).

Consider various Jay Walking, Loitering, Trespassing laws which exist in
every town.  Do all people always use the crosswalk?  ​Do the persecutors
ever ticket people?  Not if the Mayor or Business Man Alpha are jay
walking, but if I shout to a persecutor driving their armoured patrol car
"get off the cell phone" ... you can bet your sweet un-free, psuedo-liberty
ass I would be.



> On 04/01/2015 05:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
> > flouting the law and thereby render it ineffectual
>
> works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.
>
> Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet provider and
> major website operating in the US to court?
>
> ​​
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Apr  1 09:24:08 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 10:24:08 -0600
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551C1BA8.3010901@riseup.net>

On 03/29/2015 05:01 PM, Steven Schear wrote:
> Looks like Australia has banned use of my idea.
> 
> http://boingboing.net/2015/03/26/australia-outlaws-warrant-cana.html
> 
> If its true that a man's status can be measured by his enemies.. then I've
> taken a position at the top of the cypherpunks heap :)
> 
> Steve

Congratulations!

But then, one simply doesn't do business in Australia that needs warrant
canaries. What am I missing?




From kyboren at riseup.net  Wed Apr  1 05:26:26 2015
From: kyboren at riseup.net (Andrew)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 12:26:26 +0000
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>

Alfie John:
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015, at 10:01 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
>> Looks like Australia has banned use of my idea.
>>
>> http://boingboing.net/2015/03/26/australia-outlaws-warrant-cana.html
>>
>> If its true that a man's status can be measured by his enemies.. then
>> I've taken a position at the top of the cypherpunks heap :)
> 
> How about the reverse? As the point of canaries is to let people know a
> warrant is in place while thinking that you're not breaking any laws by
> telling them (good luck), hypothetically why not just be up front and
> tell people that a warrant is in place via a tor and a hidden service
> (let's call it WarrantWatch). Each post is a message from an admin of a
> website saying that a warrant is in place, with the message being signed
> via the website's TLS private key for verification.
> 
> Alfie
> 

So, you're suggesting that instead of going into a legal 'gray area',
website operators should simply obviously violate the law and then
publish a non-repudiable cryptographic proof of their lawbreaking.

Am I missing something here?  Is the idea to get everyone flouting the
law and thereby render it ineffectual, or is it just April Fools?

Andrew




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  1 13:09:40 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 13:09:40 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net> <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>
 <CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551C5084.3040802@riseup.net>



On 04/01/2015 10:34 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte quotes me:
>
>     works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.
>     Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet
>     provider and
>     major website operating in the US to court?
>     Shut down Twitter and Yahoo!'s US ops?
>     Really!
>
>
>

...and replies:

> Have you heard of "punitive punishment"? Do you know the percentage of
> people breaking the Computer Fraud Act? What about Copyright? How many
> people have been selectively convicted of drug use? (bonus points for
> racial profiling!)
>
> Simply put: oh no, you are so, so very wrong. 

Of course I've heard of punitive punishment and CERTAINLY 'selective
enforcement', which IS how laws are enforced in my California coastal
tourist/college town, but it requires that the non-persecuted internet
providers sit idly by while their users are punished. NOT a good way to
keep current users or acquire new ones .

There have been instances here where the non-persecuted backed the
persecuted about local nuisance ordinances leading to their modification
or annulment.

The non-persecuted (Yuppies with dogs) successfully pressured the city
into quitting their selective enforcement of people who WERE being
persecuted for their pets downtown by often simply not LOOKING LIKE
'gentry' and confronting the judges with their disgust that such a law
as 'no dogs' should exist.

It would also be VERY HARD to get jury convictions IF the non-persecuted
internet providers scoffed a law en masse with impunity, and gubmint
went ahead with persecuting the other cohort without secret star
chamber-like trials for the proles.

At THAT point the gubmint may have bigger problems than site owners
ignoring a ban on Warrant Canaries.

"Simply put,": Your way of looking at the issue leads to stasis.

Dare to struggle.

"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..." ~John Lennon

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  1 13:23:02 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 13:23:02 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2r+CM_GOhHintnwkRYFh4utMi=SxnA8PWkbDarY3nCb0Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>	<1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>	<551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>	<CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>	<551C4725.6000100@riseup.net>
 <CAHWD2r+CM_GOhHintnwkRYFh4utMi=SxnA8PWkbDarY3nCb0Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551C53A6.6030109@riseup.net>

On 04/01/2015 01:00 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:

> You sent that to me alo

> Lennon and co did not succeed. Or did you not notice that? Maybe they
> did and new problems appeared, I'm too young to know.
>
> If you do struggle, let it be effective.
>

Sorry. Should have looked at the address line before hitting Send

61 years old. Been at it all my life from 14 year old anti-vietnam war
protester in NY stalked by the NYPD's red squad (using institutional
slander and harassment tactics that the NSA is now capable of using on
anyone anytime at the push of a PRISM search 'I feel lucky' button) to now.

Personally I think the 'powers that be' are too powerful to confront
head on except as a diversionary tactic. However, the
"Death-of-a-thousand-cuts" approach could conceivably work to change the
structure of American government (the only one I'm familiar with) ,
given a 'critical mass' of 'knife wielders'.

But, to paraphrase Thomas Jefferson, If you turn your back on the
bastids they're at it again, so the 'struggle' must continue unabated
with or without that mass support, or support from the non-affected . (A
labor of love really... Revolutionaries are guided by great feelings of
love. Che Guevarra said that)


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From sdw at lig.net  Wed Apr  1 13:27:34 2015
From: sdw at lig.net (Stephen D. Williams)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 13:27:34 -0700
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net> <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>
 <CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551C54B6.9090302@lig.net>

On 4/1/15 10:34 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:
> 2015-04-02 0:32 GMT+09:00 Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net <mailto:sdw at lig.net>>:
>
>     Since the First Amendment is strained here, reasonable people could conclude that the conflicting law is unconstitutional. 
>     That could lead to a sense of responsibility to do the right thing.
>
>
> What's this First Amendment thing that I have absolutely no protection from? Oh, right, something American! Geez, don't you 
> Americans realize the constitution is something of a moral code that you should uphold in law and practice, with force (hint: 
> guns, militia's) if need be?
>
> Anyway, again, unless you're one of the fortuitous/doomed 322 million people that have a US citizenship this grants NO PROTECTION 
> AT ALL EVER. Not even when in the US or whilst using a US service. FISA and "National Security Letters" prove the threadbare legal 
> holdfasts snapped ages ago anyway. I would swear there was something compelling the people to revolt when the government acts 
> against the people/the public's interests, but I cannot find it now. Filter bubble or a lively imagination, who knows what to blame.

If you are inside the US, you do have full protection of US laws, including the First Amendment, although there are some specific 
exceptions.  Outside the US, it varies.  Ideally, a local law provides similar protection.  US companies will operate as if you do 
have the same rights, so in some sense and range of situations, the rights extend to everyone globally.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2001/09/do_noncitizens_have_constitutional_rights.html
>
> the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, even /illegal/ immigrants. So an immigrant, legal or illegal, prosecuted under the 
> criminal code has the right to due process <http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761570222>, a speedy and public 
> trial, and other rights protected by the Fifth <http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentv> 
> and Sixth Amendments <http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentvi>. This 
> <http://www.nlg.org/wtc/know%20your%20rights.htm> fact sheet from the National Lawyers Guild outlines a host of rights afforded to 
> immigrants and citizens alike. (There are a few rights reserved for citizens. Among them are the right to vote, the right to hold 
> most federal jobs, and the right to run for political office.)
>
> But /immigration proceedings/ are matters of administrative law, not criminal law. (As a result, the consequence of violating your 
> immigration status is not jail but deportation.) And Congress has nearly full authority to regulate immigration without 
> interference from the courts. Because immigration is considered a matter of national security and foreign policy, the Supreme 
> Court has long held that immigration law is largely immune from judicial review. Congress can make rules for immigrants that would 
> be unacceptable if applied to citizens.
>


Somebody else wrote:
>
>     works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.
>     Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet provider and
>     major website operating in the US to court?
>     Shut down Twitter and Yahoo!'s US ops?
>     Really!
>
>
> Have you heard of "punitive punishment"? Do you know the percentage of people breaking the Computer Fraud Act? What about 
> Copyright? How many people have been selectively convicted of drug use? (bonus points for racial profiling!)
>
> Simply put: oh no, you are so, so very wrong.
>
>     But then, one simply doesn't do business in Australia that needs warrant
>     canaries. What am I missing?
>
>
> Uhh.. What?...

sdw
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From marksteward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 05:37:27 2015
From: marksteward at gmail.com (Mark Steward)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 13:37:27 +0100
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>

$ curl -i defcon.org:443
HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
...



On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 02:57:05PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
> > https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
> >
> > Other people can't too.
> >
> > Is it only us?
>
> $ openssl s_client -connect www.defcon.org:443
> CONNECTED(00000003)
> 19658:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake
> failure:s23_lib.c:188
>
> from at least 2 distinct IPs.
>
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  1 04:44:16 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 14:44:16 +0300
Subject: Cryptoanarchist slogan
In-Reply-To: <CAMyHXXdUip3UvY=E5uyqqS-C5BPX-wAS3psCbAQmf7rGfeE2Ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXdUip3UvY=E5uyqqS-C5BPX-wAS3psCbAQmf7rGfeE2Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150401114416.GA19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 09:06:28AM -0700, Steven Schear wrote:
>  "Encrypt the state and delete the key"
>

IMHO if someone does this, they should NOT use off the shelve
broken cryptography.




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  1 04:57:05 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 14:57:05 +0300
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
Message-ID: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>

As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html

Other people can't too.

Is it only us?




From marksteward at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 07:04:49 2015
From: marksteward at gmail.com (Mark Steward)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 15:04:49 +0100
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <20150401133510.GE19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150401133510.GE19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAPyX2ncJ77DRxosNu1yWZ7j-zPcLpLaYvYc4Fm9CkJP6WTWDug@mail.gmail.com>

Boring answer, but it's probably a badly configured load balancer.


Mark

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 01:37:27PM +0100, Mark Steward wrote:
> > $ curl -i defcon.org:443
> > HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
> > ...
> >
>
> Same for http://www.defcon.org/
>
> Is this a sound April first joke?
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 02:57:05PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > > > As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
> > > > https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
> > > >
> > > > Other people can't too.
> > > >
> > > > Is it only us?
> > >
> > > $ openssl s_client -connect www.defcon.org:443
> > > CONNECTED(00000003)
> > > 19658:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake
> > > failure:s23_lib.c:188
> > >
> > > from at least 2 distinct IPs.
> > >
> > >
>
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From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  1 05:18:44 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 15:18:44 +0300
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 02:57:05PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
> https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
> 
> Other people can't too.
> 
> Is it only us?

$ openssl s_client -connect www.defcon.org:443
CONNECTED(00000003)
19658:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake
failure:s23_lib.c:188

from at least 2 distinct IPs.




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  1 06:11:06 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:11:06 +0300
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150401131106.GD19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 01:37:27PM +0100, Mark Steward wrote:
> $ curl -i defcon.org:443
> HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
> ...
> 

So defcon.org is serving http over https?

Got the link from:
https://www.canarywatch.org/defcon/


> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 02:57:05PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > > As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
> > > https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
> > >
> > > Other people can't too.
> > >
> > > Is it only us?
> >
> > $ openssl s_client -connect www.defcon.org:443
> > CONNECTED(00000003)
> > 19658:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake
> > failure:s23_lib.c:188
> >
> > from at least 2 distinct IPs.
> >
> >




From danimoth at cryptolab.net  Wed Apr  1 07:27:38 2015
From: danimoth at cryptolab.net (danimoth)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:27:38 +0200
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <20150401131106.GD19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150401131106.GD19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <20150401142738.GA17401@miyamoto>

On 01/04/15 at 04:11pm, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 01:37:27PM +0100, Mark Steward wrote:
> > $ curl -i defcon.org:443
> > HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
> > ...
> > 
> 
> So defcon.org is serving http over https?


Is it a joke? Or am I missing something obvious here?




From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr  1 06:35:10 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 16:35:10 +0300
Subject: Problem browsing
 https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
In-Reply-To: <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150401115705.GB19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <20150401121844.GC19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAPyX2nd+TvrfqhQYfTR0hoRGLbxeZR0Org9Qmj-oh6somkd+2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150401133510.GE19153@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 01:37:27PM +0100, Mark Steward wrote:
> $ curl -i defcon.org:443
> HTTP/1.0 503 Service Unavailable
> ...
> 

Same for http://www.defcon.org/

Is this a sound April first joke?

> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 01, 2015 at 02:57:05PM +0300, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> > > As of Wed Apr  1 11:54:42 UTC 2015 can't browse:
> > > https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-transparency.html
> > >
> > > Other people can't too.
> > >
> > > Is it only us?
> >
> > $ openssl s_client -connect www.defcon.org:443
> > CONNECTED(00000003)
> > 19658:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake
> > failure:s23_lib.c:188
> >
> > from at least 2 distinct IPs.
> >
> >




From lnemitoff at foregroundsecurity.com  Wed Apr  1 11:11:04 2015
From: lnemitoff at foregroundsecurity.com (Leslie Nemitoff)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 18:11:04 +0000
Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1427904002.12710.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
References: <mailman.1.1427904002.12710.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
Message-ID: <DD445CC5-2EAA-45AD-8282-036203FA6EA5@foregroundsecurity.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:03 AM, "cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org> wrote:I
> 
> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>    cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Warrant Canaries (Razer)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 08:48:05 -0700
> From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: Warrant Canaries
> Message-ID: <551C1335.6000008 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> 
> 
>> On 04/01/2015 05:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
>> flouting the law and thereby render it ineffectual
> 
> works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.
> 
> Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet provider and
> major website operating in the US to court?
> 
> Shut down Twitter and Yahoo!'s US ops?
> 
> Really!
> 
> Note that in the wake of the Snowden dox quite a few high profile
> internet providers and services publicly asked the feds to let them
> publish what they knew. That ALONE would be in vi-0-lation, wouldn't it?
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 2
> ******************************************




From l at odewijk.nl  Wed Apr  1 07:33:49 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 23:33:49 +0900
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rKQ-pAVEpcrDgf8iiUTTT6dNMNKgYNX6xayGgbzJ1wYsg@mail.gmail.com>

2015-04-01 21:26 GMT+09:00 Andrew <kyboren at riseup.net>:
>
> Am I missing something here?  Is the idea to get everyone flouting the
> law and thereby render it ineffectual, or is it just April Fools?
>

This is not how law works. If you break the law, but so does everybody,
that's great for the police and whomever with them. It means that at any
time "they" like you can get picked up and jailed, legally.

Breaking a law everyone breaks is like giving the government a "send me to
jail"-freecard. The government does not really mind getting those
freecards, of course. Hence the bulk of outrageous laws.
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From l at odewijk.nl  Wed Apr  1 10:34:07 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 02:34:07 +0900
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net> <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rKHot6orQChavqaEQMO+nJTPdqrm6pvu0FHkQe31mscUA@mail.gmail.com>

2015-04-02 0:32 GMT+09:00 Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net>:

>  Since the First Amendment is strained here, reasonable people could
> conclude that the conflicting law is unconstitutional.  That could lead to
> a sense of responsibility to do the right thing.
>

What's this First Amendment thing that I have absolutely no protection
from? Oh, right, something American! Geez, don't you Americans realize the
constitution is something of a moral code that you should uphold in law and
practice, with force (hint: guns, militia's) if need be?

Anyway, again, unless you're one of the fortuitous/doomed 322 million
people that have a US citizenship this grants NO PROTECTION AT ALL EVER.
Not even when in the US or whilst using a US service. FISA and "National
Security Letters" prove the threadbare legal holdfasts snapped ages ago
anyway. I would swear there was something compelling the people to revolt
when the government acts against the people/the public's interests, but I
cannot find it now. Filter bubble or a lively imagination, who knows what
to blame.

works... IF EVERYONE cooperates to flaunt, flaut, and disregard it.
> Could you IMAGINE the gubmint trying to take every internet provider and
> major website operating in the US to court?
> Shut down Twitter and Yahoo!'s US ops?
> Really!


Have you heard of "punitive punishment"? Do you know the percentage of
people breaking the Computer Fraud Act? What about Copyright? How many
people have been selectively convicted of drug use? (bonus points for
racial profiling!)

Simply put: oh no, you are so, so very wrong.

But then, one simply doesn't do business in Australia that needs warrant
> canaries. What am I missing?


Uhh.. What?...
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From schear.steve at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 12:22:58 2015
From: schear.steve at gmail.com (Steven Schear)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:22:58 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAMyHXXe37aCgZjh9dvmbUBe6qRxKj2+SZdFsWhGTGVCWOR7BkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMyHXXcLbosjE_xtXKsWsB5arwEKfuAYGXEyv1C6R4f0q47XEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1427863270.2276337.247893441.38D7393D@webmail.messagingengine.com>
 <551BE3F2.1030609@riseup.net> <551C0FA1.9050204@lig.net>
 <CAMyHXXe37aCgZjh9dvmbUBe6qRxKj2+SZdFsWhGTGVCWOR7BkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMyHXXdv2hECPdEEaOF7r4jOo92uBZ1RtUd2XZUEzRmq7bm+3g@mail.gmail.com>

My thinking, when I first proposed what are now called Warrant Canaries,
was to rely on the U.S. constitutional protection against ex post facto. In
the same way that you can never know what laws might someday be passed
which could criminalize current, lawful, behavior or speech, a service can
never know in advance if they might someday receive a warrant or NSL. Can
someone be compelled to refrain from free speech because someday that
speech might be prohibited? If more than one person is engaged in the
creation or publication of a Warrant Canary could it be viewed as a
conspiracy? Can someone be compelled to speak falsities under court order?

Until there are prosecutions which reach high enough in the Federal courts
we may not know.

Steve

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Stephen D. Williams <sdw at lig.net> wrote:

>  On 4/1/15 5:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> Alfie John:
>
>  On Mon, Mar 30, 2015, at 10:01 AM, Steven Schear wrote:
>
>  Looks like Australia has banned use of my idea.
> http://boingboing.net/2015/03/26/australia-outlaws-warrant-cana.html
>
> If its true that a man's status can be measured by his enemies.. then
> I've taken a position at the top of the cypherpunks heap :)
>
>  How about the reverse? As the point of canaries is to let people know a
> warrant is in place while thinking that you're not breaking any laws by
> telling them (good luck), hypothetically why not just be up front and
> tell people that a warrant is in place via a tor and a hidden service
> (let's call it WarrantWatch). Each post is a message from an admin of a
> website saying that a warrant is in place, with the message being signed
> via the website's TLS private key for verification.
>
> Alfie
>
>
>  So, you're suggesting that instead of going into a legal 'gray area',
> website operators should simply obviously violate the law and then
> publish a non-repudiable cryptographic proof of their lawbreaking.
>
> Am I missing something here?  Is the idea to get everyone flouting the
> law and thereby render it ineffectual, or is it just April Fools?
>
> Andrew
>
>
> The point of a warrant canary is to communicate in a legal way something
> that is illegal for you to communicate directly.  That involves something
> like setting laws against each other in some prioritized way or otherwise
> splitting hairs so that no one can technically be prosecuted.  It is a bit
> of a legal arms race.
>
> You have to find something you cannot be compelled to do or not do.  A
> dead man's switch of some kind where not doing something is ambiguous and
> unassailable.  Can you be required by law to go to Starbucks every
> morning?  To report or not report on Facebook something factual, like you
> ate Wheaties that morning?  You have a headache?  Something that is
> protected by a higher priority law, although if the First Amendment is
> trumped by these laws that's going to be difficult.  Perhaps a group of
> people probabilistically do or not do something, but any evidence of
> collusion would be a problem so they would have to act independently.  Some
> mechanism that relies on someone's thoughts might be sacrosanct.  Visual
> dwell, polygraph (not that they work at all), etc.
>
> Perhaps every day someone proposes that the warrant canary has triggered,
> and every day but one someone objects.
>
> Is there or is there not a way to do this legally?  That seems like a gray
> area, if the First Amendment is trumped, along with other legal protections
> that could apply.
> If there is no way to do this legally, what are the ways to dilute the
> situation as to be effectively legal, i.e. prosecution would be unlikely or
> ineffective?
> Since the First Amendment is strained here, reasonable people could
> conclude that the conflicting law is unconstitutional.  That could lead to
> a sense of responsibility to do the right thing.
>
> sdw
>
>
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From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:04:43 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:04:43 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QUWV6ppyXKfhtG7_aL0pm+a0HdnW9OB=T6qvc8xuXCYA@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> c) Record/Information Dissemination Section (RIDS)
> FBI-Records Management Division
> 170 Marcel Drive, Winchester, VA 22602-4843
> ---
> Form DOJ-361 sent, currently:
> February 3, 2015 , 6:15 pm - Arrived at USPS Origin Facility -
> PORTLAND, OR 97218
> "Your item arrived at our USPS origin facility in PORTLAND, OR 97218
> on February 3, 2015 at 6:15 pm. The item is currently in transit to
> the destination."
> Tracking Number: 9405510200828494428195
>  [ i offered to send via FAX if mail was problematic and excessively latent.
> ]


oddly enough, it appears this form disappeared?

i have un-embargo'd the request; unlikely to produce sensitive results:
  https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/pet-15589/




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:25:33 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:25:33 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> February 4, 2015 , 11:41 pm - Arrived at USPS Facility - WASHINGTON, DC
> Tracking Number: 9405510200829494303833
>
> February 4, 2015 , 11:40 pm - Arrived at USPS Facility - WASHINGTON, DC
> Tracking Number: 9405510200830593742348
>
>
> c) Record/Information Dissemination Section (RIDS)
> ... [FBI request https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/pet-15589/ ]
> February 3, 2015 , 6:15 pm - Arrived at USPS Origin Facility -
> PORTLAND, OR 97218
> "Your item arrived at our USPS origin facility in PORTLAND, OR 97218
> on February 3, 2015 at 6:15 pm. The item is currently in transit to
> the destination."
> Tracking Number: 9405510200828494428195
>  [ i offered to send via FAX if mail was problematic and excessively latent.
> ]


what i meant by this, is that the DOJ form to FBI was mysteriously
delayed leaving Portland, while the others were unobstructed and
reached DC on opposite coast before form to FBI left PDX.

it now appears they "lost" the form and closed a bunch with
"Reasoning: No record letter mailed"

does this happen very frequently, i wonder? (i feel another FOIA coming on... :)




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:30:30 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:30:30 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures ending in "No record letter mailed"
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QpghqtVFVPeZVjCyHWMu62FOWLexV2JUGGmp=TszhD8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> does this happen very frequently, i wonder? (i feel another FOIA coming
> on... :)

https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/psdos-17156/




From ryacko at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:39:52 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 16:39:52 -0700
Subject: [cryptome] Re: FOIPA adventures ending in "No record letter
 mailed"
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QpghqtVFVPeZVjCyHWMu62FOWLexV2JUGGmp=TszhD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QpghqtVFVPeZVjCyHWMu62FOWLexV2JUGGmp=TszhD8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0i2XjQTZX-Dq0pUcYJ08a4G0jV39CzXMJpwmX0VBpmnw@mail.gmail.com>

i suggest mailing the form to muckrock so that they themselves can mail it.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:30 PM, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/3/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > does this happen very frequently, i wonder? (i feel another FOIA coming
> > on... :)
>
> https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/psdos-17156/
>
>
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 15:55:19 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 18:55:19 -0400
Subject: How I Wish You Were Here...
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-+rBtoUfVU3G2ghBKfdKPjUnY1uidG_FHq63SwnaHnwg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYa1Wmb2f8Y

Musician and bitcoin believer Andrew Kalleeen shows us how to stand up
for our rights as sovereign human beings with calmness dignity and
grace.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 16:46:02 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 20:46:02 -0300
Subject: How I Wish You Were Here...
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-+rBtoUfVU3G2ghBKfdKPjUnY1uidG_FHq63SwnaHnwg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-+rBtoUfVU3G2ghBKfdKPjUnY1uidG_FHq63SwnaHnwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <551f255a.8521370a.7870.fffffb8d@mx.google.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2015 18:55:19 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYa1Wmb2f8Y
> 
> Musician and bitcoin believer Andrew Kalleeen shows us how to stand up
> for our rights as sovereign human beings with calmness dignity and
> grace.



	Doesn't that guy 'own'  the US government grarpamp? Why does it
	look as if the cop owns him? 









From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 19:29:06 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 19:29:06 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> does this happen very frequently, i wonder?


i am content to let PA req stay nonexistant;

even better if i get my hw...

muckrock gets support even if i go on a FOIA vacation :P




From ryacko at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 21:11:47 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 21:11:47 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rLvhKYNKfn9ZaPuaJT0GU7bDsFmDDe6rRwA8043DuTEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i2j=WnJVwyunTOY5dh+u1EGg_7zYX0ZauKNtr=zaY2DmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHWD2rLvhKYNKfn9ZaPuaJT0GU7bDsFmDDe6rRwA8043DuTEKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i2=9NM15P8KgoSfh-1D5s1q0cL1XNbqz9ij+UMPhZ=47w@mail.gmail.com>

I am a thousand feet tall platypus-bear, prove me wrong.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl>
wrote:

> On Apr 5, 2015 4:29 AM, "Ryan Carboni" <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > IANAL, but laws are pretty clear. You cannot change your behavior in any
> way that a jury could judge would lead to someone being tipped off.
>
> This could force you to behave in any which way. It's a completely
> ridiculous law that expects superhuman feats of deception from every
> citizen. Many (all?), for example, cannot help but show it when they lie
> (generalized: hide the truth). Being a bad liar is a crime? Ok, wow.
>
> Having laws dictate what you should do instead of shouldn't do...
> absolutely retarded.
>
> Good luck there.
>
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From list at sysfu.com  Sat Apr  4 22:29:06 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
Message-ID: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

It's about damn time ;)

http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/


INTERNET — Glenn Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill announced they were leaving  
The Intercept, Saturday, citing conflicts of interest with Pierre Omidyar,  
founder and owner.

In an exclusive interview with the Internet Chronicle, Scahill said,  
“Firstly, I’m sorry to the folks at Pando. I ran my mouth off on twitter,  
but then I did my research and it was obvious that The Intercept’s  
founder, Pierre, was off fomenting world wars in Ukraine on behalf of the  
US government. I can’t report on anything and take money like that.”

Scahill heaved a sigh of relief and his eyes watered, “When I came to  
Glenn and told him why I had to step down, he laughed and told me, ‘Your  
bravery is inspiring,’ and then he said how guilty he was at backing Tor,  
a pseudo-activist internet cloaking device built and maintained by the US  
Navy.”

Greenwald apologized to Yasha Levine of Pando, who reported on Tor’s  
funding, saying, “I know I called you a conspiracy theorist, but I was  
just shooting from the hip. I’m sorry for that. I had backed Tor for too  
long. I now know that you’re basically right. Tor is a military-backed  
project working towards the military’s ends and I was a useful idiot that  
drew in countless thousands by promoting it. And Pierre Omidyar, he was  
always pushing me to put Tor into my stories even when it didn’t fit. The  
guilt will haunt me to my death, but at least if I speak out now I can  
minimize the damage to others, even though it damages me personally. It  
isn’t easy to admit you’ve been accidentally doing propaganda work for the  
US military, but it sure is a relief to get away from The Intercept.”

Greenwald’s eyes twinkled as he said, “Snowden’s dream can finally come  
true. We’re going to do it, finally. We’re going to publish the list of  
people who are in prison because of the NSA’s illegal parallel  
investigations, and they’re going to go free, god dammit!”

Both Greenwald and Scahill remain upbeat and have already joined the staff  
at Internet Chronicle, where they will take a massive pay cut and forego  
all bylines for a year in an act of voluntary penitence as they work on  
freeing the victims of illegal NSA wiretapping.




From zen at freedbms.net  Sat Apr  4 20:22:03 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:22:03 +1000
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAO7N=i2j=WnJVwyunTOY5dh+u1EGg_7zYX0ZauKNtr=zaY2DmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7N=i2j=WnJVwyunTOY5dh+u1EGg_7zYX0ZauKNtr=zaY2DmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQpHftHGYEZ4Fq1yxTbRNDnZ8v2xGFJuYOYeLvnZu7LBw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/15, Ryan Carboni <ryacko at gmail.com> wrote:
> IANAL, but laws are pretty clear. You cannot change your behavior in any
> way that a jury could judge would lead to someone being tipped off.

Whoa there cowboy!

IANAL but the common law is pretty clear: you cannot compel
performance (in general that is, certain writs excepted of course).

Now the rest is my unpacking, and a bit of ranting, and I realise you
added "IANAL", but if you're thin skinned, stop reading now and go to
law school (you need to).

When you use the phrase "You cannot change your behavior in any way",
you are speaking to acting, and leading the reader to presume an
"unlawfully demonstrative" action on the part of the actor; this is an
entirely different slant to that presumed by the warrant canary: that
is, performing lawful actions during a period of time, and later
ceasing to act or ceasing to do that thing. Ceasing to do something,
is lack of performance, which is entirely different legal territory to
acting, or performing an act.

In common law (in general), you cannot compel me to act, to perform
some action. Let's say we put up a web cam in an office across the
street from my office, and each morning I wave from my office at that
webcam - this could be my 'canary' for my "private email" customers.
Can a court (that is, lawfully), order that I wave out my office
window, in exactly the same manner as I have been doing for the last
three years, at exactly the same time, wearing exactly the same
clothes and same hairstyle (let's say I have been shaving my head). So
now, my shirt gets stained ("accidentally" of course:) with tomato
sauce, I miss my barbershop appointment for a few weeks, so my hair
grows, my razor stops working, so I can't shave and I grow a beard and
mustache, I'm really tired each day now, so I wave more slowly than I
used to, I also look subtly sad/happy compared to normal, and, oh how
could it have happened, the rent for my office doesn't get paid, and I
get an eviction notice, so sad, so sad, I can no longer wave out my
office window each morning.

How the FUCK is a court going to order me around to stop every one of
these "variations" in my "behaviour"?!! Are you serious when you say a
jury would convict me of unlawful non-behaviour? Or that a court is
going to order that I behave in precisely these
ways/times/fashions/etc?

Please!! Some people might be so stupid as to soak up such rubbish,
but I have some hope that not everyone is so dum/ uncreative as to
swallow such bullshit.

Secondly, when you say "...in any way that a jury could judge...", I
am reminded of one (USA) phrase to describe juries as "the gang of 12"
- a "gang" referring, AIUI, to the relative unpredictability of the
outcome one might get - but this has a very positive side, refer in
particular to the Trial of William Penn and Bushel's Case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Penn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushel%27s_Case

In the hindsight of the Trial of William Penn and Bushel's Case, one
might be inclined to consider such "random" legal outcomes from the
so-called "gang" of 12, to instead be rare "bastions of sanity"
(verdicts) from the "final stronghold of justice" (jury/"gang" of 12)!

Our language is somewhat required (for communication that is) on this
list or elsewhere; it is a tool - one we may use for good or for evil
(choose your definition, I won't argue your definition, although it
might not match mine).

Subtleties of implication, nuance of unspoken presumptions, leading
statements and questions, can lead the uninformed reader to thoughts
or (worse) conclusions, which thoughts and conclusions are most
definitely NOT in our interest!

Please, THINK before you type.

Thanks :)
Zenaan




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 10:47:49 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:47:49 -0400
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <2015159.YdJg2uZ1UC@lapuntu>
References: <CAD2Ti293V1u6nki3SpiVtB7pS44NcKjszGpiNMM59RRLvMsd3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <2015159.YdJg2uZ1UC@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-d7HEXVEkKHMjtyLnKtsS49-_SMQJCu1HiJcvhgUBc4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 12:14 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> Dnia wtorek, 24 lutego 2015 23:51:52 grarpamp pisze:
>> Anyone have links to studies made within the last five years that
>> have attempted to calculate the dollar value of datamined users?
>
> Have a look around here:
> http://www.inrialpes.fr/planete/people/lukasz/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-personal-data-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html

Privacy policies are obviously a scam.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 10:52:42 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:52:42 -0400
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-d7HEXVEkKHMjtyLnKtsS49-_SMQJCu1HiJcvhgUBc4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti293V1u6nki3SpiVtB7pS44NcKjszGpiNMM59RRLvMsd3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <2015159.YdJg2uZ1UC@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti2-d7HEXVEkKHMjtyLnKtsS49-_SMQJCu1HiJcvhgUBc4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28Uef5QRwF_buJrTGMj0f42unKTDcKz7mM9pBNJqYkw8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 1:47 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-personal-data-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html
>
> Privacy policies are obviously a scam.

http://www.radioshack.com/terms-and-conditions/terms.html
http://www.radioshack.com/privacy-policy/privacy.html

Information sharing and disclosure
Agents, employees and contractors of RadioShack who have access to
personally identifiable information are required to protect this
information in a manner that is consistent with this Privacy Policy
and the high standards of the corporation.

Information about you specifically will not be used for any purpose
other than to carry out the services you requested from RadioShack and
its affiliates. All of our affiliates have agreed to maintain the
security and confidentiality of the information we provide to them.
We will not sell or rent your personally identifiable information to
anyone at any time.
We will not use any personal information beyond what is necessary to
assist us in delivering to you the services you have requested.
We may send personally identifiable information about you to other
organizations when:

We have your consent to share the information (you will be provided
the opportunity to opt-out if you desire). For example, if you opt-in
for emails we will share this information with our marketing provider.
We need to share your information in order to provide the product or
service you have requested. For example, we need to share information
with credit card providers and shippers to bill and ship the product
you requested.
We are required to do so by law, for example, in response to a court
order or subpoena.


whatever




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:49:32 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 14:49:32 -0400
Subject: Warrant Canaries
In-Reply-To: <CAGkjMSNZ2KdP-o4C_QoE3OHXeizREkE=-RF4j9OoanTsoERbnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGkjMSNZ2KdP-o4C_QoE3OHXeizREkE=-RF4j9OoanTsoERbnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29NSuRUJ5dk9UmKArrWQk=-rYeoJ2Unb7xvrQUtQoanjw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Softy <softservant at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But that is the point of why there is no safety in "everyone flouting the
> law".  Everyone is breaking the law and the persecutors get's to cherry pick
> who they will target.  Most likely a pleasant mix of high profile (with
> trivial/non-existent penalty) and peon targets (with disproportionate
> penalty).
>
> Consider various Jay Walking, Loitering, Trespassing laws which exist in
> every town.  Do all people always use the crosswalk?  Do the persecutors
> ever ticket people?  Not if the Mayor or Business Man Alpha are jay walking,
> but if I shout to a persecutor driving their armoured patrol car "get off
> the cell phone" ... you can bet your sweet un-free, psuedo-liberty ass I
> would be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1CRIALZ_hI




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sun Apr  5 14:46:56 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 15:46:56 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <5521AD50.5040204@riseup.net>

On 04/04/2015 11:29 PM, Seth wrote:
> It's about damn time ;)
> 
> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/

<SNIP>

| Glenn Greenwald
| March 9, 2015 at 9:49 pm · Reply
|
| ***pokes you with digital pitchfork***

... and ...

| Britain Used Spy Team to Shape Latin American
| Public Opinion on Falklands
| By Andrew Fishman and Glenn Greenwald
| @AndrewDFish @ggreenwald   04/02/2015 10:51 AM

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/02/gchq-argentina-falklands/




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Apr  5 09:14:31 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 18:14:31 +0200
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti293V1u6nki3SpiVtB7pS44NcKjszGpiNMM59RRLvMsd3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti293V1u6nki3SpiVtB7pS44NcKjszGpiNMM59RRLvMsd3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2015159.YdJg2uZ1UC@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 24 lutego 2015 23:51:52 grarpamp pisze:
> (...)
> Anyone have links to studies made within the last five years that
> have attempted to calculate the dollar value of datamined users?

Have a look around here:
http://www.inrialpes.fr/planete/people/lukasz/

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Apr  5 11:17:22 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2015 20:17:22 +0200
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-d7HEXVEkKHMjtyLnKtsS49-_SMQJCu1HiJcvhgUBc4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti293V1u6nki3SpiVtB7pS44NcKjszGpiNMM59RRLvMsd3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <2015159.YdJg2uZ1UC@lapuntu>
 <CAD2Ti2-d7HEXVEkKHMjtyLnKtsS49-_SMQJCu1HiJcvhgUBc4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3453437.ETRkulUeq1@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 5 kwietnia 2015 13:47:49 grarpamp pisze:
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 12:14 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:
> > Dnia wtorek, 24 lutego 2015 23:51:52 grarpamp pisze:
> >> Anyone have links to studies made within the last five years that
> >> have attempted to calculate the dollar value of datamined users?
> > 
> > Have a look around here:
> > http://www.inrialpes.fr/planete/people/lukasz/
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-personal-da
> ta-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html
> 
> Privacy policies are obviously a scam.

No shit:
http://rys.io/en/143

;)

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 16:58:19 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2015 20:58:19 -0300
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>

On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:

> It's about damn time ;)
> 
> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
> 
> 


	is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?




From carimachet at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 18:35:10 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 03:35:10 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>

thank you!!

i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a (murdered) dead
body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a very sick
capitalist fascist

he has done more than this but i wont go on & on

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
> Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:
>
> > It's about damn time ;)
> >
> >
> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
> >
> >
>
>
>         is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From afalex169 at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 21:16:13 2015
From: afalex169 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?INCQ0LvQtdC60YHQsNC90LTRgCA=?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 07:16:13 +0300
Subject: Fwd: The West's Shame
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbJ12t7a2tPgzOj9SWa4n1t9JM9qgwz4+hEf3wUk9RRo3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEm6KbJ12t7a2tPgzOj9SWa4n1t9JM9qgwz4+hEf3wUk9RRo3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEm6KbLSWXzGrDCxO=aWJRcNKtK5Wm2+nRjaMxommYC6q5aDZA@mail.gmail.com>

Brad Cabana

The West's Shame

There is something so bizarre, so inhumane about Western countries
boycotting the parade for the 70th anniversary of the Soviet victory over
Germany in World War II that I just had to write on it. Recently, the prime
minister of the United Kingdom announced he will not be attending the
parade. Previous to that, countries like Germany and the United States had
announced the same. It's only a parade you say? No it's more than that.

The Soviet Union sacrificed 25 million people to defeat Nazi Germany in
World War II. A sacrifice beyond imagination, and far, far greater than all
the countries fighting Nazi Germany combined. In comparison, the Holocaust,
which is rightly remembered annually, claimed the lives of six million
people of the Jewish faith. These are really the two true tragedy's of
World War II unleashed on the world by Nazi Germany. The stories of Soviet
soldiers advancing without weapons to pickup the rifle of the next dead
soldier are well known. The bloodbath of Stalingrad, the siege of
Leningrad, the millions of Soviet soldiers killed and captured (only to
then die in POW camps) during the early days of the German invasion, and so
on, all markers of the brutality of man against his own, stand large in the
history of the world. In fact, the German invasion of the Soviet Union
stands as the largest military battle in the history of man.

Yet, western leaders have decided to not attend the parade that is meant to
honour that sacrifice. When Britain announced it would not attend, well,
that's the straw that broke the camel's back frankly. Of all the countries
in the world, Britain was saved by the massive waves of young Soviet men
and woman that bled the German army white. Hitler would have crushed
Britain in short order if he had not diverted millions of German men to the
invasion of the Soviet Union. Crucially, the diversion of aircraft,
fighters and bombers, to the Soviet front saved Britain from the entire
annihilation of a full blown, continuous air campaign, and the subsequent
naval invasion that would certainly have occurred. In reality, the western
allies left Stalin almost alone in Europe to battle the Nazi's, and take
the majority of the casualties in doing so. By the time D-Day finally
arrived, the German army and air force was only a shadow of it's former
self as it existed in 1941. As bad and hard as it was for the allies to
march east through Europe to Berlin, without the Soviet people's sacrifice,
it would have never happened.

It's a place of honour in human history. To quarrel with that is to go
beyond ignorance. To quarrel with that is the hateful and arrogant bastion
of the very seeds that caused World War II in the first place. And now, as
if history is repeating itself, Western leaders have entered that bastion
of ignorance and arrogance to punish Russia for the Ukrainian civil war. By
contrast, Russian president Putin, despite the ongoing conflict in Ukraine,
attended the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings in France last year. He
was given the proverbial cold shoulder by western leaders, yet he subjected
himself to that, in honour of the sacrifice of the men of Canada, Britain
and the United States. He did not ignore the history or the price in blood
of that action. He honoured it. He put the sacrifice ahead of his political
position, and it could even be said his personal shunning. Now that the
time is here to do the same for the Soviet Union's dead, we cannot bring
ourselves to do the same.

What that says about us is really quite obvious. It means we haven't
learned the lessons of history. That our political leadership has become so
petty, so detached from historical reality, that it attempts to rewrite the
history of 25 million souls. That is the danger of all of this. Russians
don't really need the West to honour their sacrifice. They know it all too
well. It's the West that needs to honour that sacrifice so it can clearly
see the dangers of war on a scale far more destructive than anything it
experienced on the western front, or anywhere else in history. Poland
started this train rolling by refusing to invite the Russian president to
the Holocaust remembrance at Auschwitz last year. This despite the fact
that the Soviet army liberated all of Poland, and specifically Auschwitz
from German armies.

The actions of our western politicians say more about us than the Russians
could ever say themselves. They have portrayed us as people who refuse to
honour the dead, those that gave their lives in another time to defeat a
tyrant bent on world domination, and in doing so dishonour those men and
women. As the son of a young man, training in England, fighting in North
Africa, Italy, Holland, and Germany through those tumultuous years of war
and senseless slaughter, I recognize the Soviet sacrifice that probably
saved my Dad's life. How could you not? Yet, that is exactly what our
politicians are doing today. You don't have to be a lover of this country,
or that country to recognize and honour grave human injustice committed on
a massive scale. You just have to be humane, and subordinate your own bias
in the remembrance of the fallen. Is that really so hard? Isn't that what
is expected of us all? Wouldn't we expect that from our children? I've
never been so ashamed of the actions of our governments than I am now with
the boycott of that parade in Moscow.

http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.ru/2015/03/the-wests-shame.html
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From blibbet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 11:30:45 2015
From: blibbet at gmail.com (Blibbet)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:30:45 -0700
Subject: Fwd: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free baseband
In-Reply-To: <1504060541.AA16885@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
References: <1504060541.AA16885@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <5522D0D5.5020505@gmail.com>

FYI

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:     A crowdfunding campaign to build a free baseband
Date:     Mon, 6 Apr 2015 05:41:54 GMT
From:     Spacefalcon the Outlaw <falcon at ivan.Harhan.ORG>
To:     replicant at lists.osuosl.org

Hello free phone lovers,

As we all know, the baseband/modem/radio processor is the big bone in
our collective throat: it is the most closed and proprietary part of
every currently available phone, no matter how free the rest of the
phone might be.

Well, without beating further around the bush, I just started a
crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo seeking to change this bleak
baseband situation:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/free-software-cellular-baseband

My project seeks to solve the problem of the closed and proprietary
baseband by producing a GSM modem module that will run 100% free
firmware.  And furthermore, I seek to produce such a free baseband not
by creating it from scratch, but by re-creating one that was already
made by someone else some years ago and later discontinued.  Please
read the campaign page for the full details.

Thanks for reading,
SF
_______________________________________________
Replicant mailing list
Replicant at lists.osuosl.org
http://lists.osuosl.org/mailman/listinfo/replicant




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 10:43:38 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 13:43:38 -0400
Subject: GPAs vs todays anonymous overlay networks
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-wW4QDj3S1G6A5HrcLyz+33XoVxTSdUd-xq9_HysoHpw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Alexis Wattel <alexiswattel at gmail.com> .
> https://cpunks.org//pipermail/cypherpunks/2015-April/007186.html

> traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat model. The problem
> is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability of adversaries.

> They say that randomized wait times at each relay would make the traffic too
> slow.

The delay parameters must be specified before using words like "too
slow[ed]" to describe the relative impacts to the full path. Further,
relevance to chosen application must be considered. Some users
do realtime HS2HS text/voice/video over it.

> The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy padding
> discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness.

Using a fixed length cell network and keeping links otherwise full of
chaff of said length is interesting defense to GPA correlation attack.
Random length cells, even if some cars are removed, still form a
uniquely identifiable train (particularly at entry/exit). Thus not useful.

> deliberate desire of keeping Tor at government's reach

[queue usual comments on funding, centralized dirauths, TCP
only, etc]

It's opensource, fork it.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 13:49:36 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 13:49:36 -0700
Subject: [Dead body ethics edition] Greenwald, Scahill step down from
 The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5522F160.9080607@riseup.net>



On 04/06/2015 09:59 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> happens 
>
> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand


I AM, for what it's worth, a journalist of sorts, and the FIRST RULE of
Journalism ethics is:

The journalist is NEVER supposed to be (and perhaps harder, 'become, in
the process of reporting...') part of the story they're covering.

There’s really nothing unethical about being with corpses in news
footage and I don't have the foggiest where you heard that, but it's
worth noting ABCCBSNBCCNN won't run images of their people with corpses
on the air, which is most likely why you claim 'it never happens'

Those aforementioned outlets aren't really journalistic media anyway.
They're propaganda outlets.

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From xezha at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 06:04:21 2015
From: xezha at riseup.net (xezha)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:04:21 +0100
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I think I may have to leave this list.

Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
something made up/joke/propaganda?
Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before
slandering someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will
demonstrate that you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy
Scahills unethical journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.

Xe


On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
> thank you!!
>
> i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a (murdered)
dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a very
sick capitalist fascist
>
> he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
<mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
>     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com>> wrote:
>
>     > It's about damn time ;)
>     >
>     >
http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
>     >
>     >
>
>
>             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>

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From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 13:13:20 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:13:20 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> 
>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
> person was hit by a drone strike
> 
>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> happens
> 
>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So gauche!"

You're being ironic, I trust.

I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
would have been priceless :)

<SNIP>




From groundhog593 at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 11:22:04 2015
From: groundhog593 at riseup.net (Bethany)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:22:04 -0400
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>


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On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
>
> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
person was hit by a drone strike
>
> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
happens
>
> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand



Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So gauche!"

> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Alexis Wattel <alexiswattel at gmail.com <mailto:alexiswattel at gmail.com>>
wrote:
>
>     Speaking about facts checking: intrigued by these allegations I
looked up wiki on Omydiar, and his network association is said to have
partnered with the CIA, which is not generally all about "philanthropy",
although this claim lack any reference.
>
>     Would someone know why is the Agency mentioned there?
>
>     Aside from that, financed projects include "mobile intelligence"
for prospectors and deploying banks onto mobile phones to make sure
everyone even in Africa pays his fees to the landlords. They even dare
to say it's cheaper than cash. I wonder how that is.
>
>
>     Anyway... Wild allegations are very entertaining, but seriously
what's the real meaning of this about Tor?
>     Because no technical evidence suggest it is "backdoored" (whatever
that would mean, this is a trendy word, makes the one who says it sound
so l33t in journalism circles).
>
>     On the other hand, Tor devs are more and more often prone on
reminding that traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat
model. The problem is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability
of adversaries.
>
>     I really can't help thinking this is a deliberate desire of
keeping Tor at government's reach because the eternal argument they
oppose do not stand. They say that randomized wait times at each relay
would make the traffic too slow. But I remember using Tor 8 years ago
when it took forever to load a Web page, and still did I use it in spite
of this major extra effort, because anonymous surfing was such a blast.
>     Today the network is fast enough to be able to swap 25% speed for
a massive increase of anonymity.
>     The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy
padding discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness.
>
>     I honestly can't see why they legitimately refuse to implement this.
>     They seem to think that the need to observe both ends is too hard.
Did they hear about the BGP routing attack that targeted Iceland? Funny
how the Silk Road server was found a month later in... Oh shit, Iceland.
>
>     When you claim to protect activists with government money, you'd
better not show dubious intentions if people trust are what you depend
on. Because that's why Tor was opened at first. The government officials
needed to hide among civilian traffic. They do need the people to run nodes.
>
>     Le 6 avril 2015 15:04:21 CEST, xezha <xezha at riseup.net
<mailto:xezha at riseup.net>> a écrit :
>
>
> I think I may have to leave this list.
>
> Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
something made up/joke/propaganda?
> Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before
slandering someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will
demonstrate that you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy
Scahills unethical journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.
>
> Xe
>
>
> On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
> > thank you!!
>
> > i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a
(murdered) dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ...
he is a very sick capitalist fascist
>
> > he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
>
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
<mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com>
<mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
> >     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com>
<mailto:list at sysfu.com> <mailto:list at sysfu.com>> wrote:
>
> >     > It's about damn time ;)
> >     >
> >     >
http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
> >     >
> >     >
>
>
> >             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > Cari Machet
> > NYC 646-436-7795 <tel:646-436-7795>
> > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
<mailto:carimachet at gmail.com> <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> > AIM carismachet
> > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > Berlin +49 152 11779219 <tel:%2B49%20152%2011779219>
> > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 <tel:%2B354%20894%208650>
> > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
<https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are
not the
> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
without
> > permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 14:58:21 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:58:21 -0700
Subject: [Dead body ethics edition] Greenwald, Scahill step down from
 The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV75p1xqPHwpVaH0H2tkpO_SqwtmAWuHh=hyWve3awt9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522F160.9080607@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV75p1xqPHwpVaH0H2tkpO_SqwtmAWuHh=hyWve3awt9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5523017D.6070907@riseup.net>

OK... How about a dying gutshot US Marine in Afghanistan photographed by
an AP reporter?

http://razedbywolves.blogspot.com/2010/05/crosspost-sanitizing-war-what-would.html#Ricks

AP made the right call, and it took a FEMALE PHOTOJOURNALIST to push
them despite fanaticism on the part of people who don't want us to know
soldiers die in GRUESOME WAYS EVEN IN WORTHLESS WARS, threats, and yes
claims of unethical behavior...

But it's all good to show pictures of 'brown bodies'



On 04/06/2015 02:39 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> show me an instance of someone posing with a corpse thats a journalist
> & have you done it? 
>
> i dont know what kind of journalist you are but it sounds like you are
> in america as you site specific news outlets - make assumptions that i
> am also in america - i dont watch that shit - i am an activist journalist 
>
> being an activist journalist makes part of my job to be critical of
> journalism and therefor maybe i am in a different position than you -
> if you are okay posing with corpses then i will call you out as well
> but as your identity is hidden here.... soooooo... that wouldnt be so
> easy would it...
>
> it is your idea that there is nothing unethical but that doesnt mean
> that there is nothing unethical about it and that standards are not
> breeched by jeremy doing it and your post has not proven otherwise in
> any way 
>
> you are presenting as if i said there is a journalist bible and it was
> written in there and also you are presenting as if he is just hanging
> out and woops a dead body came flying by and the camera was just like
> on and pointed at him .... and the slab they just like landed in the
> slab like that ... it is perfectly disgusting
>
> besides if its so nothing why are bothering to post about it
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net
> <mailto:Rayzer at riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 04/06/2015 09:59 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
>     > no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
>     > happens
>     >
>     > perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>
>
>     I AM, for what it's worth, a journalist of sorts, and the FIRST
>     RULE of
>     Journalism ethics is:
>
>     The journalist is NEVER supposed to be (and perhaps harder,
>     'become, in
>     the process of reporting...') part of the story they're covering.
>
>     There’s really nothing unethical about being with corpses in news
>     footage and I don't have the foggiest where you heard that, but it's
>     worth noting ABCCBSNBCCNN won't run images of their people with
>     corpses
>     on the air, which is most likely why you claim 'it never happens'
>
>     Those aforementioned outlets aren't really journalistic media anyway.
>     They're propaganda outlets.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>


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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Mon Apr  6 14:59:39 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 14:59:39 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQWBY40jCYLQD-gzMG0jSz4-8A52eh6v05izKVqiqcjN2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQWBY40jCYLQD-gzMG0jSz4-8A52eh6v05izKVqiqcjN2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14c90bef928.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

>> (sic) nazi's

And Godwin ends the thread!

Wondered how long it would take.  Cari doesn't disappoint (well, at least 
not in that regard...)

Troll on!

-S


----------
On April 6, 2015 2:28:57 PM Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> bethany you are obviously NOT a journalist... its called exploitation
>
> i dont remember the images of the baby at hiroshima or the girl burned
> naked running in vietnam having the journalists fat head in the frame
>
> guess who gets their picture took with dead bodies? smiling american
> soldiers have in afghanistan and nazi's - i am sure you can look those
> images up for yourself i wont be a party to it
>
> just because you dont understand ethics doesnt mean they dont exist
>
> being filmed with dead bodies is absolutely a breech of journalistic ethics
>
> ++++++++++++++++++
>
> thanks alexis for your analysis of tor i heartily agree with your
> conclusion
>
> look into a blow up of @emptywheel had regarding her protections of @pierre
> when the whole ukranian thing was revealed she has to do a lot of dancing
> to dodge the bullets coming her way ...
>
> when i get time later i will look it up for you
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Bethany <groundhog593 at riseup.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> >
> >
> > On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > > its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> > >
> > > there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a dead
> > body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the person was
> > hit by a drone strike
> > >
> > > no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> > happens
> > >
> > > perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> >
> >
> >
> > Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
> > investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination of
> > a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So gauche!"
> >
> > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Alexis Wattel <alexiswattel at gmail.com
> > <mailto:alexiswattel at gmail.com> <alexiswattel at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Speaking about facts checking: intrigued by these allegations I
> > looked up wiki on Omydiar, and his network association is said to have
> > partnered with the CIA, which is not generally all about "philanthropy",
> > although this claim lack any reference.
> > >
> > >     Would someone know why is the Agency mentioned there?
> > >
> > >     Aside from that, financed projects include "mobile intelligence" for
> > prospectors and deploying banks onto mobile phones to make sure everyone
> > even in Africa pays his fees to the landlords. They even dare to say it's
> > cheaper than cash. I wonder how that is.
> > >
> > >
> > >     Anyway... Wild allegations are very entertaining, but seriously
> > what's the real meaning of this about Tor?
> > >     Because no technical evidence suggest it is "backdoored" (whatever
> > that would mean, this is a trendy word, makes the one who says it sound so
> > l33t in journalism circles).
> > >
> > >     On the other hand, Tor devs are more and more often prone on
> > reminding that traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat
> > model. The problem is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability of
> > adversaries.
> > >
> > >     I really can't help thinking this is a deliberate desire of keeping
> > Tor at government's reach because the eternal argument they oppose do not
> > stand. They say that randomized wait times at each relay would make the
> > traffic too slow. But I remember using Tor 8 years ago when it took forever
> > to load a Web page, and still did I use it in spite of this major extra
> > effort, because anonymous surfing was such a blast.
> > >     Today the network is fast enough to be able to swap 25% speed for a
> > massive increase of anonymity.
> > >     The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy padding
> > discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness.
> > >
> > >     I honestly can't see why they legitimately refuse to implement this.
> > >     They seem to think that the need to observe both ends is too hard.
> > Did they hear about the BGP routing attack that targeted Iceland? Funny how
> > the Silk Road server was found a month later in... Oh shit, Iceland.
> > >
> > >     When you claim to protect activists with government money, you'd
> > better not show dubious intentions if people trust are what you depend on.
> > Because that's why Tor was opened at first. The government officials needed
> > to hide among civilian traffic. They do need the people to run nodes.
> > >
> > >     Le 6 avril 2015 15:04:21 CEST, xezha <xezha at riseup.net
> > <mailto:xezha at riseup.net> <xezha at riseup.net>> a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I may have to leave this list.
> > >
> > > Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
> > something made up/joke/propaganda?
> > > Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before
> > slandering someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will
> > demonstrate that you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy
> > Scahills unethical journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.
> > >
> > > Xe
> > >
> > >
> > > On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
> > > > thank you!!
> > >
> > > > i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a (murdered)
> > dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a very
> > sick capitalist fascist
> > >
> > > > he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
> > >
> > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
> > > >     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com> <list at sysfu.com>
> > <mailto:list at sysfu.com> <list at sysfu.com> <mailto:list at sysfu.com>
> > <list at sysfu.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >     > It's about damn time ;)
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > 
> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
> > > >     >
> > > >     >
> > >
> > >
> > > >             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cari Machet
> > > > NYC 646-436-7795 <tel:646-436-7795>
> > > > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> > <carimachet at gmail.com> <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> > <carimachet at gmail.com> <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> > <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > > > AIM carismachet
> > > > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > > > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > > > Berlin +49 152 11779219 <tel:%2B49%20152%2011779219>
> > > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 <tel:%2B354%20894%208650>
> > > > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > <https://twitter.com/carimachet> <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > >
> > > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> > >
> > > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > > > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
> > the
> > > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> > > > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> > without
> > > > permission is strictly prohibited.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cari Machet
> > > NYC 646-436-7795
> > > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> > <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > > AIM carismachet
> > > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > > Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> > >
> > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> > >
> > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> > > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> > without
> > > permission is strictly prohibited.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1
> >
> > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVIs7MAAoJELSH/HSoRBscScYH/i1n6ZzH77ZMwxNtHVFgX8kb
> > LCE18yEIlrh4fPPUyMC+JHOjR56jWJr6YTnr4XI359k+pVpOUujXd/LZq9655ws2
> > RS3Hs8dxhuYm4S3EdpIssEeN0wu5Z0+zOeoO2IE3VR2lO4sxe9tKRCjV5sSLUxGm
> > rIPc7BaknrGQjQoTtufJYVodT63uvKZ7r3OqMx/bwOIU60edcQrLjKAFaGeJ/Ges
> > aqrhd+QUE7DvpiRPv6BKfsOpcZT+isk2FyMmp/1muTQ/k+huZ85HwP7Ytc+DnKpj
> > d6lr06iQWaXFQD926cMsJIInsOQA6Sc2prig/MfF0XKTuzP5w7TQIhFojhf01Bk=
> > =9tv1
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
> permission is strictly prohibited.





From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr  5 22:02:12 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 15:02:12 +1000
Subject: The West's Shame
In-Reply-To: <CAEm6KbLSWXzGrDCxO=aWJRcNKtK5Wm2+nRjaMxommYC6q5aDZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEm6KbJ12t7a2tPgzOj9SWa4n1t9JM9qgwz4+hEf3wUk9RRo3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEm6KbLSWXzGrDCxO=aWJRcNKtK5Wm2+nRjaMxommYC6q5aDZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSncpBpDwum8-EbDMnUMMS7gtiZXvf9Mv3tegg1f1XZCw@mail.gmail.com>

"The West", as the "western media" and those families who control "the
western media", have a lot to answer for indeed.

Sadly, the cycle of famine war recovery wealth, has lead once again to
slothfulness, greed, corruption, impatience, pride and the fall (of
"the west") that we are now witnessing. It's an age old cycle on this
planet.

Zenaan


On 4/6/15, Александр <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad Cabana
>
> The West's Shame
>
> There is something so bizarre, so inhumane about Western countries
> boycotting the parade for the 70th anniversary of the Soviet victory over
> Germany in World War II that I just had to write on it. Recently, the prime
> minister of the United Kingdom announced he will not be attending the
> parade. Previous to that, countries like Germany and the United States had
> announced the same. It's only a parade you say? No it's more than that.
>
> The Soviet Union sacrificed 25 million people to defeat Nazi Germany in
> World War II. A sacrifice beyond imagination, and far, far greater than all
> the countries fighting Nazi Germany combined. In comparison, the Holocaust,
> which is rightly remembered annually, claimed the lives of six million
> people of the Jewish faith. These are really the two true tragedy's of
> World War II unleashed on the world by Nazi Germany. The stories of Soviet
> soldiers advancing without weapons to pickup the rifle of the next dead
> soldier are well known. The bloodbath of Stalingrad, the siege of
> Leningrad, the millions of Soviet soldiers killed and captured (only to
> then die in POW camps) during the early days of the German invasion, and so
> on, all markers of the brutality of man against his own, stand large in the
> history of the world. In fact, the German invasion of the Soviet Union
> stands as the largest military battle in the history of man.
>
> Yet, western leaders have decided to not attend the parade that is meant to
> honour that sacrifice. When Britain announced it would not attend, well,
...




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 12:16:18 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 15:16:18 -0400
Subject: [tor-talk] rant - just want a bit of music
In-Reply-To: <CAMJgV7bff-r4J0fRo=1TrTFzkVx=gWhjWGROTeJKAQGAVnaHzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSTqOfq5h2-V=SC7mnz9sJk3iRHjZ44bD2SksWXH_S+uOg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55221501.8040505@rawbw.com>
 <CAMJgV7bff-r4J0fRo=1TrTFzkVx=gWhjWGROTeJKAQGAVnaHzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-33btRQ+2T_J=u-USzAAaxvUg+1TC80EDsm5aJiGThKA@mail.gmail.com>

> Surely solving the ready-access to censored
> content problem would be a good start for our freedom lovin'
> community?

We have at least 2 (maybe even 3-5) anonymous overlay networks
that could be utilized to transport the final solution to this problem
(absent copyright regime change). Even plain old BT. Yet curiously,
no one seems to be building any solution at scale within them.

> rant - just want a bit of music

See above. Or keep on ranting.
At least until you convince certain communities to evolve beyond
their simpleminded value/ideal of leech and run, speed first (which
can actually be quite acceptable).

> We need some sort of bit-torrent for censored youtubes, where those
> who've already downloaded a youtube file, can automatically make it
> available to others

This is no different than BT with search. An engine to map
YT-ID to BT-info hashes is largely moot given you'd know
the title to search anyway.




From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 14:28:38 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 15:28:38 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the drone
> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
> 
> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion

The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
audience still needs to trust him.

> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your arsenal...
> i wont line up
> 
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
>>>
>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
>>> person was hit by a drone strike
>>>
>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
>>> happens
>>>
>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
>> gauche!"
>>
>> You're being ironic, I trust.
>>
>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
>> would have been priceless :)
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
> 
> 
> 




From alexiswattel at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 07:03:26 2015
From: alexiswattel at gmail.com (Alexis Wattel)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 16:03:26 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>

Speaking about facts checking: intrigued by these allegations I looked up wiki on Omydiar, and his network association is said to have partnered with the CIA, which is not generally all about "philanthropy", although this claim lack any reference. 

Would someone know why is the Agency mentioned there? 

Aside from that, financed projects include "mobile intelligence" for prospectors and deploying banks onto mobile phones to make sure everyone even in Africa pays his fees to the landlords. They even dare to say it's cheaper than cash. I wonder how that is. 


Anyway... Wild allegations are very entertaining, but seriously what's the real meaning of this about Tor? 
Because no technical evidence suggest it is "backdoored" (whatever that would mean, this is a trendy word, makes the one who says it sound so l33t in journalism circles). 

On the other hand, Tor devs are more and more often prone on reminding that traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat model. The problem is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability of adversaries. 

I really can't help thinking this is a deliberate desire of keeping Tor at government's reach because the eternal argument they oppose do not stand. They say that randomized wait times at each relay would make the traffic too slow. But I remember using Tor 8 years ago when it took forever to load a Web page, and still did I use it in spite of this major extra effort, because anonymous surfing was such a blast. 
Today the network is fast enough to be able to swap 25% speed for a massive increase of anonymity. 
The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy padding discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness. 

I honestly can't see why they legitimately refuse to implement this. 
They seem to think that the need to observe both ends is too hard. Did they hear about the BGP routing attack that targeted Iceland? Funny how the Silk Road server was found a month later in... Oh shit, Iceland. 

When you claim to protect activists with government money, you'd better not show dubious intentions if people trust are what you depend on. Because that's why Tor was opened at first. The government officials needed to hide among civilian traffic. They do need the people to run nodes. 

Le 6 avril 2015 15:04:21 CEST, xezha <xezha at riseup.net> a écrit :
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I think I may have to leave this list.
>
>Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
>something made up/joke/propaganda?
>Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before
>slandering someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will
>demonstrate that you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy
>Scahills unethical journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.
>
>Xe
>
>
>On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
>> thank you!!
>>
>> i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a
>(murdered)
>dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a
>very
>sick capitalist fascist
>>
>> he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
><mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
>>     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     > It's about damn time ;)
>>     >
>>     >
>http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cari Machet
>> NYC 646-436-7795
>> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
>> AIM carismachet
>> Syria +963-099 277 3243
>> Amman +962 077 636 9407
>> Berlin +49 152 11779219
>> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
>> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>>
>> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>>
>> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
>> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
>the
>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
>> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
>without
>> permission is strictly prohibited.
>>
>>
>
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From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 15:27:53 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 16:27:53 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2015 04:01 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and then
> prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what was
> in the mind of the filmmaker

I prove nothing. I have opinions.

> could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
> think maybe ? maybe possibly ?

What matters most, to me, is that he made the documentary. And in that
context, it seems odd to focus on his artistic (even moral) choices in
how to make it.

> plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him exploiting
> a dead body anyway

You say "exploiting", and I say "making it real".

> people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
> images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have a
> say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
> being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond all
> of that even - that is totally unethical

So you say. Do you have cites for that?

> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
>> drone
>>> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
>>>
>>> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
>>
>> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
>> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
>> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
>> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
>> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
>> audience still needs to trust him.
>>
>>> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
>> arsenal...
>>> i wont line up
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
>>>>>
>>>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
>>>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
>>>>> person was hit by a drone strike
>>>>>
>>>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
>>>>> happens
>>>>>
>>>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
>>>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
>>>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
>>>> gauche!"
>>>>
>>>> You're being ironic, I trust.
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
>>>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
>>>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
>>>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
>>>> would have been priceless :)
>>>>
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 




From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 09:59:30 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 18:59:30 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>

its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award

there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a dead
body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the person was
hit by a drone strike

no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never happens

perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand

it isnt 'slander' if it is true so maybe you dont know anything about law
either

just because you have not run across other people criticising the great
perfect white guy jeremy scahill doesnt mean it isnt happening - you seem
to assume a lot and not ask questions just flame out assuming you know
everything i think that is known as narcissism which people go to
psychiatrists to get help working out of as its such a lethal condition but
it isnt easy because narcissists think they are right all the time

besides even if i was the only one criticising jeremy that doesnt prove me
wrong - prove me wrong > go ahead try...

also i knew the 'report' was false that you assume i thought it was true
again proves my premise that you are narcissistic

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Alexis Wattel <alexiswattel at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Speaking about facts checking: intrigued by these allegations I looked up
> wiki on Omydiar, and his network association is said to have partnered with
> the CIA, which is not generally all about "philanthropy", although this
> claim lack any reference.
>
> Would someone know why is the Agency mentioned there?
>
> Aside from that, financed projects include "mobile intelligence" for
> prospectors and deploying banks onto mobile phones to make sure everyone
> even in Africa pays his fees to the landlords. They even dare to say it's
> cheaper than cash. I wonder how that is.
>
>
> Anyway... Wild allegations are very entertaining, but seriously what's the
> real meaning of this about Tor?
> Because no technical evidence suggest it is "backdoored" (whatever that
> would mean, this is a trendy word, makes the one who says it sound so l33t
> in journalism circles).
>
> On the other hand, Tor devs are more and more often prone on reminding
> that traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat model. The
> problem is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability of
> adversaries.
>
> I really can't help thinking this is a deliberate desire of keeping Tor at
> government's reach because the eternal argument they oppose do not stand.
> They say that randomized wait times at each relay would make the traffic
> too slow. But I remember using Tor 8 years ago when it took forever to load
> a Web page, and still did I use it in spite of this major extra effort,
> because anonymous surfing was such a blast.
> Today the network is fast enough to be able to swap 25% speed for a
> massive increase of anonymity.
> The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy padding
> discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness.
>
> I honestly can't see why they legitimately refuse to implement this.
> They seem to think that the need to observe both ends is too hard. Did
> they hear about the BGP routing attack that targeted Iceland? Funny how the
> Silk Road server was found a month later in... Oh shit, Iceland.
>
> When you claim to protect activists with government money, you'd better
> not show dubious intentions if people trust are what you depend on. Because
> that's why Tor was opened at first. The government officials needed to hide
> among civilian traffic. They do need the people to run nodes.
>
> Le 6 avril 2015 15:04:21 CEST, xezha <xezha at riseup.net> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> I think I may have to leave this list.
>>
>> Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
>> something made up/joke/propaganda?
>> Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before slandering
>> someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will demonstrate that
>> you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy Scahills unethical
>> journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.
>>
>> Xe
>>
>>
>> On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
>> > thank you!!
>> >
>> > i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a (murdered)
>> dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a very
>> sick capitalist fascist
>> >
>> > he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
>> >     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com> <list at sysfu.com>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     > It's about damn time ;)
>> >     >
>> >     >
>> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
>> >     >
>> >     >
>> >
>> >
>> >             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Cari Machet
>> > NYC 646-436-7795
>> > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
>> <carimachet at gmail.com>
>> > AIM carismachet
>> > Syria +963-099 277 3243
>> > Amman +962 077 636 9407
>> > Berlin +49 152 11779219
>> > Reykjavik +354 894 8650
>> > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>> <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>> >
>> > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>> >
>> > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
>> > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
>> the
>> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
>> > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
>> without
>> > permission is strictly prohibited.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>>
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>> =Gsmo
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 16:10:11 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 20:10:11 -0300
Subject: The West's Shame
In-Reply-To: <472203426.470880.1428342044873.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAEm6KbLSWXzGrDCxO=aWJRcNKtK5Wm2+nRjaMxommYC6q5aDZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <472203426.470880.1428342044873.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55231171.991b370a.742c.58c0@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 17:40:44 +0000 (UTC)
jim bell <jdb10987 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes, there was a Soviet "sacrifice", but it was
> made necessary by the actions of the Soviets themselves.       Jim
> Bell


	Look! Here's a cute family picture 
	https://cerebrovortex.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/stalin-roosevelt-churchill-1943-image-8.jpg



	So, what the commies did in WWII was part of the dirty work of
	the anglo-american fascists. 


	a) the anglo american nazis needed the commies to stop the
	german nazis

	b) both commies and anglo-american fascists needed each other
	and both were willing to 'collaborate' with their 'evil'
	'enemies' (communists and 'capitalists' respectively)

	
	A lot of russians got killed thanks to their own government of
	course. And so helped 'save' 'capitalism', that is to say,
	helped the anglo-american fascists.


	And now the anglo-american fascists don't want to be remined of
	their past association with the evil commies. Go figure. 





J.

	





> 
>      On Sunday, April 5, 2015 9:57 PM, Александр
> <afalex169 at gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
>  Brad Cabana
> 
> The West's Shame
> 
> There is something so bizarre, so inhumane about Western countries
> boycotting the parade for the 70th anniversary of the Soviet victory
> over Germany in World War II that I just had to write on it.
> Recently, the prime minister of the United Kingdom announced he will
> not be attending the parade. Previous to that, countries like Germany
> and the United States had announced the same. It's only a parade you
> say? No it's more than that.
> 
> The Soviet Union sacrificed 25 million people to defeat Nazi Germany
> in World War II. A sacrifice beyond imagination, and far, far greater
> than all the countries fighting Nazi Germany combined. In comparison,
> the Holocaust, which is rightly remembered annually, claimed the
> lives of six million people of the Jewish faith. These are really the
> two true tragedy's of World War II unleashed on the world by Nazi
> Germany. The stories of Soviet soldiers advancing without weapons to
> pickup the rifle of the next dead soldier are well known. The
> bloodbath of Stalingrad, the siege of Leningrad, the millions of
> Soviet soldiers killed and captured (only to then die in POW camps)
> during the early days of the German invasion, and so on, all markers
> of the brutality of man against his own, stand large in the history
> of the world. In fact, the German invasion of the Soviet Union stands
> as the largest military battle in the history of man.
> 
> Yet, western leaders have decided to not attend the parade that is
> meant to honour that sacrifice. When Britain announced it would not
> attend, well, that's the straw that broke the camel's back frankly.
> Of all the countries in the world, Britain was saved by the massive
> waves of young Soviet men and woman that bled the German army white.
> Hitler would have crushed Britain in short order if he had not
> diverted millions of German men to the invasion of the Soviet Union.
> Crucially, the diversion of aircraft, fighters and bombers, to the
> Soviet front saved Britain from the entire annihilation of a full
> blown, continuous air campaign, and the subsequent naval invasion
> that would certainly have occurred. In reality, the western allies
> left Stalin almost alone in Europe to battle the Nazi's, and take the
> majority of the casualties in doing so. By the time D-Day finally
> arrived, the German army and air force was only a shadow of it's
> former self as it existed in 1941. As bad and hard as it was for the
> allies to march east through Europe to Berlin, without the Soviet
> people's sacrifice, it would have never happened.
> 
> It's a place of honour in human history. To quarrel with that is to
> go beyond ignorance. To quarrel with that is the hateful and arrogant
> bastion of the very seeds that caused World War II in the first
> place. And now, as if history is repeating itself, Western leaders
> have entered that bastion of ignorance and arrogance to punish Russia
> for the Ukrainian civil war. By contrast, Russian president Putin,
> despite the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, attended the 70th
> anniversary of the D-Day landings in France last year. He was given
> the proverbial cold shoulder by western leaders, yet he subjected
> himself to that, in honour of the sacrifice of the men of Canada,
> Britain and the United States. He did not ignore the history or the
> price in blood of that action. He honoured it. He put the sacrifice
> ahead of his political position, and it could even be said his
> personal shunning. Now that the time is here to do the same for the
> Soviet Union's dead, we cannot bring ourselves to do the same.
> 
> What that says about us is really quite obvious. It means we haven't
> learned the lessons of history. That our political leadership has
> become so petty, so detached from historical reality, that it
> attempts to rewrite the history of 25 million souls. That is the
> danger of all of this. Russians don't really need the West to honour
> their sacrifice. They know it all too well. It's the West that needs
> to honour that sacrifice so it can clearly see the dangers of war on
> a scale far more destructive than anything it experienced on the
> western front, or anywhere else in history. Poland started this train
> rolling by refusing to invite the Russian president to the Holocaust
> remembrance at Auschwitz last year. This despite the fact that the
> Soviet army liberated all of Poland, and specifically Auschwitz from
> German armies.
> 
> The actions of our western politicians say more about us than the
> Russians could ever say themselves. They have portrayed us as people
> who refuse to honour the dead, those that gave their lives in another
> time to defeat a tyrant bent on world domination, and in doing so
> dishonour those men and women. As the son of a young man, training in
> England, fighting in North Africa, Italy, Holland, and Germany
> through those tumultuous years of war and senseless slaughter, I
> recognize the Soviet sacrifice that probably saved my Dad's life. How
> could you not? Yet, that is exactly what our politicians are doing
> today. You don't have to be a lover of this country, or that country
> to recognize and honour grave human injustice committed on a massive
> scale. You just have to be humane, and subordinate your own bias in
> the remembrance of the fallen. Is that really so hard? Isn't that
> what is expected of us all? Wouldn't we expect that from our
> children? I've never been so ashamed of the actions of our
> governments than I am now with the boycott of that parade in Moscow.
> 
> http://rocksolidpolitics.blogspot.ru/2015/03/the-wests-shame.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   





From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Apr  6 17:29:48 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:29:48 -0400
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5523177B.7040609@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5523177B.7040609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <E1YfHMI-0006nq-UR@elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Not showing dead bodies of warfare helps sustain wars.
Defense Dept doesn't want them shown so public will
support sanitized war. News media doesn't want to show
them so advertizers can show ads which seduce the
public to wanting only sanitized news and war.

Those who profit from sanitized war and news want to
thrill the public with sanitized gore and business glory.
Every war has a sanitization business supporting it,
hiding carnage, cadavers, maimed, insane with
film, books, video, literature, education, religion,
and popular entertainers who valorize bloodthirstiness
and cruelty, venality and greed with sanitized cariatures,
games, parades, medals, cemetaries, monuments,
pensions, vet hospitals, thanks for service.

That way those who have experience actual war can
find nobody who has not who can understand anything
except the sanitized version. Grieving survivors can
find nobody to grasp what they suffer. Traumatized
vets wander among the sanitized zombies, whacking
a few, noticing that none of the other zombies care
a bit, dreaming this Django will end, this Dirty War
will end, sure, take a photo of me with the ghoul,
give me a Pulitzer, an Oscar, an Snowden factory
byline.





From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Apr  6 17:43:48 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:43:48 -0400
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


>my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too 
>capitalistic and therein breech ethics

That's the crucial fault of the Snowden campaign, its corrupt core,
ambition and greed triumphant. Snowden is paying the high price
for others' profit. A nadir in contemporary journalism seemingly
without bottom.

Meanwhile obsessive handwringing about petty story fabrication,
as if to avoid the principal fabrication of 2013-2015, instead praising,
awarding, investing, promoting, recycling, gaming, streaming,
TEDing, Oscaring, glorifying, comedifying it.






From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 13:40:59 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:40:59 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQWBY40jCYLQD-gzMG0jSz4-8A52eh6v05izKVqiqcjN2g@mail.gmail.com>

bethany you are obviously NOT a journalist... its called exploitation

i dont remember the images of the baby at hiroshima or the girl burned
naked running in vietnam having the journalists fat head in the frame

guess who gets their picture took with dead bodies? smiling american
soldiers have in afghanistan and nazi's - i am sure you can look those
images up for yourself i wont be a party to it

just because you dont understand ethics doesnt mean they dont exist

being filmed with dead bodies is absolutely a breech of journalistic ethics

++++++++++++++++++

thanks alexis for your analysis of tor i heartily agree with your
conclusion

look into a blow up of @emptywheel had regarding her protections of @pierre
when the whole ukranian thing was revealed she has to do a lot of dancing
to dodge the bullets coming her way ...

when i get time later i will look it up for you

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Bethany <groundhog593 at riseup.net> wrote:

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> >
> > there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a dead
> body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the person was
> hit by a drone strike
> >
> > no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> happens
> >
> > perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>
>
>
> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination of
> a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So gauche!"
>
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Alexis Wattel <alexiswattel at gmail.com
> <mailto:alexiswattel at gmail.com> <alexiswattel at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Speaking about facts checking: intrigued by these allegations I
> looked up wiki on Omydiar, and his network association is said to have
> partnered with the CIA, which is not generally all about "philanthropy",
> although this claim lack any reference.
> >
> >     Would someone know why is the Agency mentioned there?
> >
> >     Aside from that, financed projects include "mobile intelligence" for
> prospectors and deploying banks onto mobile phones to make sure everyone
> even in Africa pays his fees to the landlords. They even dare to say it's
> cheaper than cash. I wonder how that is.
> >
> >
> >     Anyway... Wild allegations are very entertaining, but seriously
> what's the real meaning of this about Tor?
> >     Because no technical evidence suggest it is "backdoored" (whatever
> that would mean, this is a trendy word, makes the one who says it sound so
> l33t in journalism circles).
> >
> >     On the other hand, Tor devs are more and more often prone on
> reminding that traffic analysis/correlation is not part of their threat
> model. The problem is that it is nowadays a definitely proven capability of
> adversaries.
> >
> >     I really can't help thinking this is a deliberate desire of keeping
> Tor at government's reach because the eternal argument they oppose do not
> stand. They say that randomized wait times at each relay would make the
> traffic too slow. But I remember using Tor 8 years ago when it took forever
> to load a Web page, and still did I use it in spite of this major extra
> effort, because anonymous surfing was such a blast.
> >     Today the network is fast enough to be able to swap 25% speed for a
> massive increase of anonymity.
> >     The other solution, randomized length of packets with dummy padding
> discarded at each relay would impact even less on responsiveness.
> >
> >     I honestly can't see why they legitimately refuse to implement this.
> >     They seem to think that the need to observe both ends is too hard.
> Did they hear about the BGP routing attack that targeted Iceland? Funny how
> the Silk Road server was found a month later in... Oh shit, Iceland.
> >
> >     When you claim to protect activists with government money, you'd
> better not show dubious intentions if people trust are what you depend on.
> Because that's why Tor was opened at first. The government officials needed
> to hide among civilian traffic. They do need the people to run nodes.
> >
> >     Le 6 avril 2015 15:04:21 CEST, xezha <xezha at riseup.net
> <mailto:xezha at riseup.net> <xezha at riseup.net>> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > I think I may have to leave this list.
> >
> > Can you really not tell the difference between a real article and
> something made up/joke/propaganda?
> > Please be a little more critical and back up for claims before
> slandering someones name. Even 5 minutes of research with google will
> demonstrate that you are the only source of ANY claims about Jeremy
> Scahills unethical journalism. You seem to have a screw loose.
> >
> > Xe
> >
> >
> > On 06/04/15 02:35, Cari Machet wrote:
> > > thank you!!
> >
> > > i just want to say that @jeremyscahill took a selfie with a (murdered)
> dead body which no & i mean no journalist does - no one ... he is a very
> sick capitalist fascist
> >
> > > he has done more than this but i wont go on & on
> >
> > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com
> <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> <mailto:juan.g71 at gmail.com> <juan.g71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > >     On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 22:29:06 -0700
> > >     Seth <list at sysfu.com <mailto:list at sysfu.com> <list at sysfu.com>
> <mailto:list at sysfu.com> <list at sysfu.com> <mailto:list at sysfu.com>
> <list at sysfu.com>> wrote:
> >
> > >     > It's about damn time ;)
> > >     >
> > >     >
> http://chronicle.su/2015/03/07/greenwald-scahill-step-down-from-the-intercept/
> > >     >
> > >     >
> >
> >
> > >             is this some kind of stupid 'joke' ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > --
> > > Cari Machet
> > > NYC 646-436-7795 <tel:646-436-7795>
> > > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> <carimachet at gmail.com> <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> <carimachet at gmail.com> <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > > AIM carismachet
> > > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > > Berlin +49 152 11779219 <tel:%2B49%20152%2011779219>
> > > Reykjavik +354 894 8650 <tel:%2B354%20894%208650>
> > > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> <https://twitter.com/carimachet> <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> >
> > > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> >
> > > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
> the
> > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> > > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> > > permission is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cari Machet
> > NYC 646-436-7795
> > carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> <carimachet at gmail.com>
> > AIM carismachet
> > Syria +963-099 277 3243
> > Amman +962 077 636 9407
> > Berlin +49 152 11779219
> > Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> > Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> >
> > 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> >
> > Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> > addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> > information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> > permission is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 13:45:06 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:45:06 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>

scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the drone
strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake

ambulance chasing times 1 trillion

you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your arsenal...
i wont line up

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> >
> >> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
> > dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
> > person was hit by a drone strike
> >
> >> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> > happens
> >
> >> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> >
> >
> >
> > Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
> > investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
> > of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
> gauche!"
>
> You're being ironic, I trust.
>
> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
> would have been priceless :)
>
> <SNIP>
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 18:58:02 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 22:58:02 -0300
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>

On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:43:48 -0400
John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> 
> >my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too 
> >capitalistic and therein breech ethics
> 
> That's the crucial fault of the Snowden campaign, its corrupt core,
> ambition and greed triumphant. Snowden is paying the high price
> for others' profit. A nadir in contemporary journalism seemingly
> without bottom.
> 

	I watched the snowden/poitras documentary a few days ago and it
	wasn't that bad. 

	What I find somewhat puzzling is the fact that greenwald would
	cooperate with 'capitalists' like the ebay owner? Wasn't
	greenwald some kind of 'liberal'?

	Also, is the snowden affair really being handled in a way to
	maximize profits? For whom? 

	It's not as if the snowden affair is some kind of hollywood
	nazi fairy tale. I don't think western imperialists like to be
	reminded what kind of garbage they are.

		
	

> Meanwhile obsessive handwringing about petty story fabrication,
> as if to avoid the principal fabrication of 2013-2015, instead
> praising, awarding, investing, promoting, recycling, gaming,
> streaming, TEDing, Oscaring, glorifying, comedifying it.
> 
> 
> 




From kyboren at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 16:32:11 2015
From: kyboren at riseup.net (Andrew)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:32:11 +0000
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5523177B.7040609@riseup.net>

Cari Machet:
> mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and then
> prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what was
> in the mind of the filmmaker
> 
> could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
> think maybe ? maybe possibly ?
> 
> plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him exploiting
> a dead body anyway
> 
> people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
> images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have a
> say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
> being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond all
> of that even - that is totally unethical
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
>> drone
>>> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
>>>
>>> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
>>
>> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
>> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
>> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
>> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
>> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
>> audience still needs to trust him.
>>
>>> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
>> arsenal...
>>> i wont line up
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
>>>>>
>>>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
>>>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
>>>>> person was hit by a drone strike
>>>>>
>>>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
>>>>> happens
>>>>>
>>>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
>>>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
>>>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
>>>> gauche!"
>>>>
>>>> You're being ironic, I trust.
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
>>>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
>>>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
>>>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
>>>> would have been priceless :)
>>>>
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

Pictures of children, unconscious people, even--GASP--the dead can be
perfectly ethical.  Indeed, in my view a journalist usually has the
*duty* to show their audience what they see, no matter how
heart-wrenching or gruesome.  Not to show the uncomfortable truth is the
true breach of journalistic ethics.

Should we censor thousands upon thousands of hours of war footage
because the dead soldiers and civilians didn't get a say in it?  Or does
the public interest outweigh that concern?  It's a balancing act, and
depends on the broader context.

Putting yourself in a shot is different territory, but can be ethical in
some cases.  One of those cases, in my opinion, is in a documentary
showing the journalist's journey.  This can be, and in the case of Dirty
Wars in my opinion is, as illuminating as the 'ground truth' itself.  It
gives a context to the images which is otherwise missing and very
difficult to understand on anything more than an abstract, cerebral level.

Andrew





From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 14:39:44 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 23:39:44 +0200
Subject: [Dead body ethics edition] Greenwald,
 Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5522F160.9080607@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522F160.9080607@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQV75p1xqPHwpVaH0H2tkpO_SqwtmAWuHh=hyWve3awt9g@mail.gmail.com>

show me an instance of someone posing with a corpse thats a journalist &
have you done it?

i dont know what kind of journalist you are but it sounds like you are in
america as you site specific news outlets - make assumptions that i am also
in america - i dont watch that shit - i am an activist journalist

being an activist journalist makes part of my job to be critical of
journalism and therefor maybe i am in a different position than you - if
you are okay posing with corpses then i will call you out as well but as
your identity is hidden here.... soooooo... that wouldnt be so easy would
it...

it is your idea that there is nothing unethical but that doesnt mean that
there is nothing unethical about it and that standards are not breeched by
jeremy doing it and your post has not proven otherwise in any way

you are presenting as if i said there is a journalist bible and it was
written in there and also you are presenting as if he is just hanging out
and woops a dead body came flying by and the camera was just like on and
pointed at him .... and the slab they just like landed in the slab like
that ... it is perfectly disgusting

besides if its so nothing why are bothering to post about it






On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 04/06/2015 09:59 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> > happens
> >
> > perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>
>
> I AM, for what it's worth, a journalist of sorts, and the FIRST RULE of
> Journalism ethics is:
>
> The journalist is NEVER supposed to be (and perhaps harder, 'become, in
> the process of reporting...') part of the story they're covering.
>
> There's really nothing unethical about being with corpses in news
> footage and I don't have the foggiest where you heard that, but it's
> worth noting ABCCBSNBCCNN won't run images of their people with corpses
> on the air, which is most likely why you claim 'it never happens'
>
> Those aforementioned outlets aren't really journalistic media anyway.
> They're propaganda outlets.
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

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From mirimir at riseup.net  Mon Apr  6 22:41:57 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2015 23:41:57 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55236E25.3040304@riseup.net>

On 04/06/2015 10:13 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> Westerners like shit that makes money
> 
> glenn greenwald backed the invasion of iraq because >>>>>> vengeance

You are so full of shit!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/30/1182442/-Glenn-Greenwald-Responds-to-Widespread-Lies-About-Him-on-Cato-Iraq-War-and-more

> which means he aint that fucking bright

If he had, he wouldn't be, but he didn't. I think that he is.

> glenn greenwald was a corporate lawyer

"I was previously a constitutional law and civil rights litigator and am
now a journalist."

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/response-to-right-wing-personal.html

Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

> anyway liberals are not that bright too

I agree :)

> ALL snowden docs should go to EFF - should have gone there in the beginning
> for analysis snowden gave those docs to people unqualified to deal with
> them and they still are not qualified their capacity is far too low for
> them to ever be qualified the mere fact that they drip so slowly says so
> much

I'm also disappointed with their handling of the docs. But it was
Snowden's call, so hey.

> no-no laura greenwald and scahill arent making any money..> 
> 
. i think we
> should start a collection up for them i am afraid they arent eating actual
> food

:)

> On Apr 7, 2015 8:10 AM, "Juan" <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:43:48 -0400
>> John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too
>>>> capitalistic and therein breech ethics
>>>
>>> That's the crucial fault of the Snowden campaign, its corrupt core,
>>> ambition and greed triumphant. Snowden is paying the high price
>>> for others' profit. A nadir in contemporary journalism seemingly
>>> without bottom.
>>>
>>
>>         I watched the snowden/poitras documentary a few days ago and it
>>         wasn't that bad.
>>
>>         What I find somewhat puzzling is the fact that greenwald would
>>         cooperate with 'capitalists' like the ebay owner? Wasn't
>>         greenwald some kind of 'liberal'?
>>
>>         Also, is the snowden affair really being handled in a way to
>>         maximize profits? For whom?
>>
>>         It's not as if the snowden affair is some kind of hollywood
>>         nazi fairy tale. I don't think western imperialists like to be
>>         reminded what kind of garbage they are.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Meanwhile obsessive handwringing about petty story fabrication,
>>> as if to avoid the principal fabrication of 2013-2015, instead
>>> praising, awarding, investing, promoting, recycling, gaming,
>>> streaming, TEDing, Oscaring, glorifying, comedifying it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 




From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 15:01:36 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 00:01:36 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>

mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and then
prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what was
in the mind of the filmmaker

could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
think maybe ? maybe possibly ?

plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him exploiting
a dead body anyway

people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have a
say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond all
of that even - that is totally unethical



On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
> drone
> > strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
> >
> > ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
>
> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
> audience still needs to trust him.
>
> > you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
> arsenal...
> > i wont line up
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> >>>
> >>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
> >>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
> >>> person was hit by a drone strike
> >>>
> >>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> >>> happens
> >>>
> >>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when he's
> >>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the examination
> >>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
> >> gauche!"
> >>
> >> You're being ironic, I trust.
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains, and
> >> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
> >> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
> >> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's femur
> >> would have been priceless :)
> >>
> >> <SNIP>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Mon Apr  6 21:19:36 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 00:19:36 -0400
Subject: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free baseband
Message-ID: <N1B-wzs12W2IC1@Safe-mail.net>

SF,

Although creating an open GSM mobile modem is an interesting technical exercise it seems to make sense ONLY if there are secure mobile networks within which to operate. Although someday that might happen alas this not even close to being the case (there are several OS SDR projects for base station/network infrastructure creation). All standardized mobile networks were created with significant influence from intel agencies and even if OS SDR networks were deployed they could not be made secure if they integrated with the S7 backbone/interchange of the current networks. Even if your project manages to yield the result desired it will still be stuck in the "matrix".

A much simpler, more secure and generally useful mobile system might result from mobile devices with hardended kernals/OS' using only WiFi in conjunction with good wireless hygine to prevent data leakage, a variety of available technologies to enable secure end-to-end voice and data communications. Secure paging, to alert users who's devices are not currently connected, should even be possible by adding a RTL receiver dongle and using appropriate tradecraft with existing pager networks (yes, they still exist and are used heavily by professionals (including sex workers), government and even devices calling for repair).

WW

PS: Suggest you enable lower contribution steps for crowd funding. They are too high for many who might like to help but cannot afford or justify the current steps.




From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 17:02:01 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 02:02:01 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>

mirimir - heres some fucked up people (laura poitras) talkin about the shit

https://youtu.be/KzZfOOvwAMM?t=22m44s

i found that area of the report its at 22:44 the link should take you there

even laura at least thinks about when to film / when not to

btw she talked snowden into filming in hong kong - was it ethical for her
to do it as he was under incredible duress?? i dont know .... i question
her and glenns role and wikileaks role in him being now trapped in russia
but maybe its the best place for him i dont know ... but i still get to
question the ethics of their role... there are other places he could have
gone

my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too capitalistic and
therein breech ethics



On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 04/06/2015 04:01 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and
> then
> > prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what
> was
> > in the mind of the filmmaker
>
> I prove nothing. I have opinions.
>
> > could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
> > think maybe ? maybe possibly ?
>
> What matters most, to me, is that he made the documentary. And in that
> context, it seems odd to focus on his artistic (even moral) choices in
> how to make it.
>
> > plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him
> exploiting
> > a dead body anyway
>
> You say "exploiting", and I say "making it real".
>
> > people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
> > images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have a
> > say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
> > being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond all
> > of that even - that is totally unethical
>
> So you say. Do you have cites for that?
>
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
> >> drone
> >>> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
> >>>
> >>> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
> >>
> >> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
> >> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
> >> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
> >> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
> >> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
> >> audience still needs to trust him.
> >>
> >>> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
> >> arsenal...
> >>> i wont line up
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
> >>>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
> >>>>> person was hit by a drone strike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> >>>>> happens
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when
> he's
> >>>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the
> examination
> >>>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
> >>>> gauche!"
> >>>>
> >>>> You're being ironic, I trust.
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains,
> and
> >>>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
> >>>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
> >>>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's
> femur
> >>>> would have been priceless :)
> >>>>
> >>>> <SNIP>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 17:12:51 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 02:12:51 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQViOA+z9xQ00bpS6H_AnhAt5LX1zPWJGgSVhSaL4Azx9g@mail.gmail.com>

dear razor

soldiers sign up to be filmed as far as i am concerned they have sold
themselves - the journalist was not in the frame so i dont see why you
think it relates to this argument - i think soldiers should always be
filmed like the cops because i think the role they play is super psychotic
- maybe if the images of them and what they are doing were distributed more
it would be helpful

i think it would have been ethical for scahill to film the dead body in the
morgue - it would be great if they had the permission of the family but...
its that he was in the frame thats really my big problem

also the person in the scene with scahill - a white man - is a person of
color (POC) which also was super problematic for me



On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 2:02 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> mirimir - heres some fucked up people (laura poitras) talkin about the
> shit
>
> https://youtu.be/KzZfOOvwAMM?t=22m44s
>
> i found that area of the report its at 22:44 the link should take you there
>
> even laura at least thinks about when to film / when not to
>
> btw she talked snowden into filming in hong kong - was it ethical for her
> to do it as he was under incredible duress?? i dont know .... i question
> her and glenns role and wikileaks role in him being now trapped in russia
> but maybe its the best place for him i dont know ... but i still get to
> question the ethics of their role... there are other places he could have
> gone
>
> my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too capitalistic and
> therein breech ethics
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2015 04:01 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>> > mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and
>> then
>> > prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what
>> was
>> > in the mind of the filmmaker
>>
>> I prove nothing. I have opinions.
>>
>> > could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
>> > think maybe ? maybe possibly ?
>>
>> What matters most, to me, is that he made the documentary. And in that
>> context, it seems odd to focus on his artistic (even moral) choices in
>> how to make it.
>>
>> > plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him
>> exploiting
>> > a dead body anyway
>>
>> You say "exploiting", and I say "making it real".
>>
>> > people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
>> > images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have
>> a
>> > say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
>> > being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond
>> all
>> > of that even - that is totally unethical
>>
>> So you say. Do you have cites for that?
>>
>> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>> >>> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
>> >> drone
>> >>> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
>> >>>
>> >>> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
>> >>
>> >> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the
>> audience.
>> >> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
>> >> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time
>> for
>> >> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he
>> was
>> >> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
>> >> audience still needs to trust him.
>> >>
>> >>> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
>> >> arsenal...
>> >>> i wont line up
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>> >>>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
>> >>>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
>> >>>>> person was hit by a drone strike
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
>> >>>>> happens
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when
>> he's
>> >>>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the
>> examination
>> >>>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
>> >>>> gauche!"
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You're being ironic, I trust.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains,
>> and
>> >>>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
>> >>>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael
>> Moore.
>> >>>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's
>> femur
>> >>>> would have been priceless :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> <SNIP>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 22:29:55 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 02:29:55 -0300
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com>

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 06:13:30 +0200
Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> glenn greenwald backed the invasion of iraq because >>>>>> vengeance
> which means he aint that fucking bright
> glenn greenwald was a corporate lawyer


	I had assumed greenwald was a progressive/liberal (now leaning
	more libertarian) but looks I was partially wrong. A quick
	search suggests he was a bush supporter of sorts? And he used
	to write for salon.com. And for what it's worth, wikitrash
	now lists him as libertarian. So...kinda mixed.

	
> 
> anyway liberals are not that bright too
> 
> ALL snowden docs should go to EFF - should have gone there in the
> beginning for analysis snowden gave those docs to people unqualified
> to deal with them and they still are not qualified their capacity is
> far too low for them to ever be qualified the mere fact that they
> drip so slowly says so much

	
	Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
	from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
	the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
	want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.


> 
> no-no laura greenwald and scahill arent making any money... i think we
> should start a collection up for them i am afraid they arent eating
> actual food


	I'm guessing that's sarcasm =P - No, I don't think greenwald is
	starving either.

	My point is that I'm not sure how they are making money off the
	snowden docs...except if they are being paid to not publish
	them (which is a possibility)

	Also, I don't think greenwald and poitras are too loyal to the
	US government at this point. The ebay owner on the other hand...




J.
 




From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 17:38:45 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 02:38:45 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5523177B.7040609@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5523177B.7040609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUxo9hV7bT9v_8Q2O_CPkgVCYnWnbmo55x6enTMz46BWg@mail.gmail.com>

i dont remember ever a journalist putting themselves in a shot like that

i dont see how jeremy's head in that shot gives ANY context that brings it
out of the abstract cerebral place - that it isnt actually in in the first
place - dead bodies in mogadishu or the moon are not abstract or just
floaty... not in my head at least not in my gut either or my big toe

jeremy is from wisconsin i think is that what you think brings context?

please you will have to bring more to the table than that... i am not
swallowing

listen i am all for showing a lot of stuff truelly really i am... but if
you are on the ground as a journo you run across things that are just not
ok to even film - its just like that

i have other things as i originally posted that make all of this much worse
for me > jeremy attacked mona eltahawy on twitter over her media 'junkets'
in new york regarding the revolution in egypt he was really fucked up in
doing it and i was like after that questioning his ethics then i saw this
scene and i was like wtf

i do not think he is ethical and for other reasons as well so... things
pile up ya know and then you have to acknowledge them or you are a part of
it in a way

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:32 AM, Andrew <kyboren at riseup.net> wrote:

> Cari Machet:
> > mirimir - you prove you know what was in the mind of the filmmaker and
> then
> > prove that the overriding factor in any documentary is absolutely what
> was
> > in the mind of the filmmaker
> >
> > could it possible be that the story matters more than the filmmaker - ya
> > think maybe ? maybe possibly ?
> >
> > plus your 'proposiition' is not evidence - its no excuse for him
> exploiting
> > a dead body anyway
> >
> > people when you are an ethical journalist you are careful not to exploit
> > images of children, people that are unconscious etc as they do not have a
> > say in the image content - if this is breeched it is possible they are
> > being exploited but to then place oneself in the frame is just beyond all
> > of that even - that is totally unethical
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 04/06/2015 02:45 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>> scahill was being filmed in the fucking morgue not at the site of the
> >> drone
> >>> strike - the persons body was on a slab for fuck sake
> >>>
> >>> ambulance chasing times 1 trillion
> >>
> >> The point, which you seem to miss, was to make it real for the audience.
> >> It would have been better to shoot footage at the site of the drone
> >> strike, of course. But I presume that the crew didn't arrive in time for
> >> that. Anyway, by putting Scahill in the shot, they emphasize that he was
> >> there, and actually saw the victims. That could be CGIed, and so the
> >> audience still needs to trust him.
> >>
> >>> you humans can give him every fucking award that exists in your
> >> arsenal...
> >>> i wont line up
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 04/06/2015 12:22 PM, Bethany wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 06/04/15 12:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>>>>> its not a 'claim' watch his film that was up for an academy award
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> there is a scene in mogadishu where he is in the morgue there is a
> >>>>> dead body and him in the scene he is standing right next to it - the
> >>>>> person was hit by a drone strike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> no journalist gets filmed with dead bodies it is unethical it never
> >>>>> happens
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> perhaps if you were a journalist in the field you would understand
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Absolutely. The first thing any good journalist should think when
> he's
> >>>>> investigating drone strikes and is permitted to witness the
> examination
> >>>>> of a body of a victim is "shit, don't film me here, where I am! So
> >>>> gauche!"
> >>>>
> >>>> You're being ironic, I trust.
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Dirty Wars" should have shown lots of remains,
> and
> >>>> sequences of people looking for little burned bits scattered about.
> >>>> Maybe the film did feature too much of Scahill. He's no Michael Moore.
> >>>> But a scene showing Obama receiving some gift made from a victim's
> femur
> >>>> would have been priceless :)
> >>>>
> >>>> <SNIP>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> Pictures of children, unconscious people, even--GASP--the dead can be
> perfectly ethical.  Indeed, in my view a journalist usually has the
> *duty* to show their audience what they see, no matter how
> heart-wrenching or gruesome.  Not to show the uncomfortable truth is the
> true breach of journalistic ethics.
>
> Should we censor thousands upon thousands of hours of war footage
> because the dead soldiers and civilians didn't get a say in it?  Or does
> the public interest outweigh that concern?  It's a balancing act, and
> depends on the broader context.
>
> Putting yourself in a shot is different territory, but can be ethical in
> some cases.  One of those cases, in my opinion, is in a documentary
> showing the journalist's journey.  This can be, and in the case of Dirty
> Wars in my opinion is, as illuminating as the 'ground truth' itself.  It
> gives a context to the images which is otherwise missing and very
> difficult to understand on anything more than an abstract, cerebral level.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 21:13:30 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 06:13:30 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>

Westerners like shit that makes money

glenn greenwald backed the invasion of iraq because >>>>>> vengeance

which means he aint that fucking bright

glenn greenwald was a corporate lawyer

anyway liberals are not that bright too

ALL snowden docs should go to EFF - should have gone there in the beginning
for analysis snowden gave those docs to people unqualified to deal with
them and they still are not qualified their capacity is far too low for
them to ever be qualified the mere fact that they drip so slowly says so
much

no-no laura greenwald and scahill arent making any money... i think we
should start a collection up for them i am afraid they arent eating actual
food


On Apr 7, 2015 8:10 AM, "Juan" <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 20:43:48 -0400
> John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > >my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too
> > >capitalistic and therein breech ethics
> >
> > That's the crucial fault of the Snowden campaign, its corrupt core,
> > ambition and greed triumphant. Snowden is paying the high price
> > for others' profit. A nadir in contemporary journalism seemingly
> > without bottom.
> >
>
>         I watched the snowden/poitras documentary a few days ago and it
>         wasn't that bad.
>
>         What I find somewhat puzzling is the fact that greenwald would
>         cooperate with 'capitalists' like the ebay owner? Wasn't
>         greenwald some kind of 'liberal'?
>
>         Also, is the snowden affair really being handled in a way to
>         maximize profits? For whom?
>
>         It's not as if the snowden affair is some kind of hollywood
>         nazi fairy tale. I don't think western imperialists like to be
>         reminded what kind of garbage they are.
>
>
>
>
> > Meanwhile obsessive handwringing about petty story fabrication,
> > as if to avoid the principal fabrication of 2013-2015, instead
> > praising, awarding, investing, promoting, recycling, gaming,
> > streaming, TEDing, Oscaring, glorifying, comedifying it.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 10:08:00 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:08:00 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls
 pot capitalist edition]
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>



On 04/06/2015 05:02 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
>
>
> my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too capitalistic...
>
>

Wait what? The ONLY reference I find in a google search for "Cari Machet
Journalist" is one lonely piece you apparently didn't even write for
NBCNews, a Cattlepist(sic) 'news' source.

Your problem is you fail to capitalize the names and you speak of them
as if you know them when you undoubtedly don't. The latter marks you as
a nutcase in my estimation.

I truly believe, as the alt-news syndicated journalist
<https://archive.org/details/tth_090220> I wrote copy, archived, and
researched for once said:

What you know about Journalism Cari, "could be written on the head of a
pin by a spastic stone-cutter."

Personally, I think you're an attention-whoring troll, but I COULD be
wrong about that and you're just the plain vanilla variety.

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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 10:14:09 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:14:09 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
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 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
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 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
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Message-ID: <55241061.8090208@riseup.net>



On 04/06/2015 09:13 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> glenn greenwald was a corporate lawyer

 He IS a constitutional lawyer who, by the nature of ANY lawyer's job,
has worked for SOME corpo or another.

Point not made fuck not given.


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 10:22:14 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:22:14 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>



On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
> 	from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
> 	the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
> 	want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.

I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
to take on... head on.

Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be approached
at all in some way that MAY change it.

As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives the
booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
 


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From list at sysfu.com  Tue Apr  7 13:41:48 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 13:41:48 -0700
Subject: Nothing drives adoption of free software better than a good ole
 crackdown
Message-ID: <op.xwqo3yd7bgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

This is a case study of why I welcome crackdowns on online freedom and  
corporate silo censorship; it's highly effective in getting people off  
their ass and drives them into the warm and loving arms of free software  
and crypto.

reposted from the Free Software Foundation newsletter
-----------------------------------------------------

This guest post was submitted by Daniel Dianes, a Spanish free software  
activist. A Spanish language version of the post is coming soon.

The cancellation or temporary suspension of various Spanish Twitter  
accounts has led to a huge migration of Spaniards to GNU social, a  
microblogging service designed to foster user freedom and control. This is  
an exciting win for federated online services.

Unlike Twitter, which is controlled by a centralized authority, GNU social  
is a network of independent servers called nodes. Federation technology  
allows users to communicate between nodes, preserving the unified  
experience of traditional social media systems, and the free GNU social  
software allows anybody with an Internet connection to start their own  
public or private node and join the network. These administrators can even  
customize their nodes to suit the unique needs of their users.

Since GNU social is decentralized, it's harder for a company or government  
to censor content or shut down the network when they feel threatened by  
it. This is more than a hypothetical threat—it has been attempted multiple  
times by oppressive governments. Spreading out user data also makes bulk  
surveillance considerably more difficult, as there is no single database  
to crack into and copy.

Twitter user @Barbijaputa is popular in Spain, with more than 167,000  
followers. She's known for criticizing the government or any other  
political parties or groups of power.

On January 14th, Twitter suspended @Barbijaputa's account after she  
participated in a conversation about sexually transmitted diseases. The  
next day, she created a profile on GNU social node Quitter.se and started  
posting. Her Twitter followers proved willing to follow her all the way to  
GNU social, and began joining existing nodes en masse and starting their  
own.

The growth was so explosive that the some of the existing GNU social nodes  
were unable to handle the traffic. On January 15th, a Quitter  
administrator posted this note:

"Due to high traffic, I need to stop the registrations for some time to  
get back in control. Has been a crazy day (15.01.15) on quitter.no and .is  
- -regards @knuthollund"
The node Quitter.es (Quitter Spain) was created to handle some of the  
extra people that overloaded existing GNU social instances like Quitter.no  
and Quitter.is. Quitter Spain now has 6,667 users and counting and  
Quitter.se reports 4,982 users, due in part to the incoming Spanish users.

GNU social is not the only federated social network challenging the  
centralized status quo. GNU MediaGoblin lets users publish images, videos,  
3D models, and other files, Diaspora* provides a Facebook-like experience  
and pump.io is another option for microblogging. The Free Software  
Foundation runs a GNU social node at https://status.fsf.org.

Get started with GNU social today by picking from this list of nodes, and  
follow the Free Software Foundation at @fsf. Or try pump.io, and follow  
the FSF account @fsf there. Even if you don't have as many followers as  
@Barbijaputa, encourage them to follow you!

Daniel Dianes, FSF member #9171

Read online:  
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/thousands-of-spaniards-leave-twitter-for-gnu-social




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 13:22:45 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:22:45 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>

On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> dear mirimir you cannot read
> 
> 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
> institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
> and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in support
> of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that Saddam
> posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
> objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being done
> ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
> security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop
> a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
> would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
> 
> did you read the motherfucking article?

Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to do
more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
big deal in the current context. In my opinion.

> this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government says he
> didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard though

I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a little ;)

> also daily kos sucks

Yeah, I don't read that shit.

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
>>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
>>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
>>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
>>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
>>
>> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
>> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
>> to take on... head on.
>>
>> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
>> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be approached
>> at all in some way that MAY change it.
>>
>> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
>> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives the
>> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
>> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 12:04:16 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:04:16 -0400
Subject: The Government Can Perv My Junk... WTF!!!
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_jwJVrGqpQhNP97BLGy4UYfO8j1K-y_m6=oucTMvHvWw@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M

There are very few government checks on what America’s sweeping
surveillance programs are capable of doing. John Oliver sits down with
Edward Snowden to discuss the NSA, the balance between privacy and
security, and dick-pics.


http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/we-should-all-have-something-to-hide/




From list at sysfu.com  Tue Apr  7 15:06:43 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 15:06:43 -0700
Subject: HavenCo - Rebirth?
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_1Z=kk9=WYfnOz040tfUf9n1F1DdkitewWsT-1k=6uug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_1Z=kk9=WYfnOz040tfUf9n1F1DdkitewWsT-1k=6uug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.xwqs1he2bgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:44:29 -0800, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Highly doubt Ryan, Avi or any cpunks are involved, or
> that much of anything will actually be in SeaLand.
> Seems like a news driven oppurtunistic biz to cover
> tower operation and maintenance costs.
>
> Anyone have any facts?
> Such as who's behind it and why?
>
> http://www.sealandgov.org/sealand-news-1/HavenCo
> http://www.havenco.com/

Don't know the answer to the above but apparently their initial VPN  
service offering involved some pretty sloppy work, publishing private keys  
and what not. Havenco.com - seriously guys... wtf? "Private" keys not-so -  
https://cryptostorm.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=6017

Long live the necro-post.




From dan at geer.org  Tue Apr  7 14:31:54 2015
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:31:54 -0400
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 05 Apr 2015 13:52:42 -0400."
 <CAD2Ti28Uef5QRwF_buJrTGMj0f42unKTDcKz7mM9pBNJqYkw8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150407213154.886D9228290@palinka.tinho.net>

 | > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-personal-data-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html
 | >
 | > Privacy policies are obviously a scam.


Any policy lasts as long as the entity whose policy it is lasts.
Have you an alternative in mind that delivers immortality?

Perhaps a different but similar example: A certifying authority goes
bankrupt.  Who gets the keys?

--dan





From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 18:07:51 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 19:07:51 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55247F67.7060500@riseup.net>

On 04/07/2015 06:44 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> mirimir i would have to dig up the quote where the fuck says that basically
> it is good us is invading to get back at the iraqi's for 9-11

Please do. I don't believe that he could ever have said that. It's
inconceivable. I can imagine that he might have opined that the Hussein
regime had to go. But I don't believe that he was ever dumb enough to go
for the 9-11 bullshit.

> umn the iraqi's had nothing to do with 9-11 and he swallowed that tripe...
> i am sorry but that is just stupid x 5 million

They obviously didn't. But you need a cite for your claim about him.

> i dont care about his excuses my pet spider even knew it was crap

I blame it on the Saudi Caliphate backers. They fucking nailed it :(

> if you can give him a pass for being 'apathetic' which i wouldnt frame it
> like that then that says a lot about you - its not apathy to support a
> fucking invasion of a people - people that are apathetic are like i dont
> know not oh yay lets do it it is a totally different mindset

I'm a very practical guy :)

> and that he is here in daily kos framing out this lie says more to me about
> his lack of character than anything and you of course didnt address that
> part - if the fuck was an actual person he could be like yay i sucked but
> now i know better i changed its so great we get to change our minds in our
> lifetimes and fucking grow but does gleenny do that no he cant face himself
> its pathetic he lives in his ego

You have a point ;)

> ego doesnt want people saying they are wrong ever and its a death echo
> chamber

I agree.

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>> dear mirimir you cannot read
>>>
>>> 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
>>> institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
>>> and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in
>> support
>>> of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that Saddam
>>> posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
>>> objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being done
>>> ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
>>> security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to
>> develop
>>> a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
>>> would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
>>>
>>> did you read the motherfucking article?
>>
>> Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
>> and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to do
>> more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
>> cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
>> rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
>> big deal in the current context. In my opinion.
>>
>>> this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government says
>> he
>>> didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard
>> though
>>
>> I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a little ;)
>>
>>> also daily kos sucks
>>
>> Yeah, I don't read that shit.
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
>>>>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
>>>>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
>>>>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
>>>>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
>>>>
>>>> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
>>>> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
>>>> to take on... head on.
>>>>
>>>> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
>>>> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be approached
>>>> at all in some way that MAY change it.
>>>>
>>>> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
>>>> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives the
>>>> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
>>>> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 18:19:59 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 19:19:59 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQUimZeuRKxASYB+4OQ=sHUOBOaWNA3Ejgzc+BAhvOgpbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUimZeuRKxASYB+4OQ=sHUOBOaWNA3Ejgzc+BAhvOgpbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5524823F.30701@riseup.net>

On 04/07/2015 06:55 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> here:
> https://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/glenn-greenwald-supported-president-bush-as-he-signed-the-patriot-act/
> 
> he actually uses the fucking word 'vengeance' ... fuck

Yes, he does. But he says that about invading _Afghanistan_, not Iraq.
He says that he took W's word on Iraq. That does not reflect well on
him, and I'm disappointed that he hasn't acknowledged his error. But so
it goes.

It it were vengeance the US wanted, they should have invaded Saudi
Arabia :) Free oil! They should also have cut off the fucking Israelis,
who knew that the attack was immanent.

> someone sent this to me on twitter long ago so this isnt anything new i am
> pointing out
> 
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> mirimir i would have to dig up the quote where the fuck says that
>> basically it is good us is invading to get back at the iraqi's for 9-11
>>
>> umn the iraqi's had nothing to do with 9-11 and he swallowed that tripe...
>> i am sorry but that is just stupid x 5 million
>>
>> i dont care about his excuses my pet spider even knew it was crap
>>
>> if you can give him a pass for being 'apathetic' which i wouldnt frame it
>> like that then that says a lot about you - its not apathy to support a
>> fucking invasion of a people - people that are apathetic are like i dont
>> know not oh yay lets do it it is a totally different mindset
>>
>> and that he is here in daily kos framing out this lie says more to me
>> about his lack of character than anything and you of course didnt address
>> that part - if the fuck was an actual person he could be like yay i sucked
>> but now i know better i changed its so great we get to change our minds in
>> our lifetimes and fucking grow but does gleenny do that no he cant face
>> himself its pathetic he lives in his ego
>>
>> ego doesnt want people saying they are wrong ever and its a death echo
>> chamber
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
>>>> dear mirimir you cannot read
>>>>
>>>> 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
>>>> institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
>>>> and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in
>>> support
>>>> of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that
>>> Saddam
>>>> posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
>>>> objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being
>>> done
>>>> ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
>>>> security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to
>>> develop
>>>> a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
>>>> would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
>>>>
>>>> did you read the motherfucking article?
>>>
>>> Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
>>> and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to do
>>> more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
>>> cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
>>> rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
>>> big deal in the current context. In my opinion.
>>>
>>>> this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government
>>> says he
>>>> didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard
>>> though
>>>
>>> I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a little
>>> ;)
>>>
>>>> also daily kos sucks
>>>
>>> Yeah, I don't read that shit.
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
>>>>>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
>>>>>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
>>>>>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
>>>>>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
>>>>> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
>>>>> to take on... head on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
>>>>> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be
>>> approached
>>>>> at all in some way that MAY change it.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
>>>>> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives
>>> the
>>>>> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
>>>>> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cari Machet
>> NYC 646-436-7795
>> carimachet at gmail.com
>> AIM carismachet
>> Syria +963-099 277 3243
>> Amman +962 077 636 9407
>> Berlin +49 152 11779219
>> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
>> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>>
>> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>>
>> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
>> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
>> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
>> permission is strictly prohibited.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 




From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:38:14 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 19:38:14 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls pot
 capitalist edition]
In-Reply-To: <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>

oh great another person that thinks they know everything because they
punched some letters into a search engine

i worked at indymedia in new york city democracy now and pbs > wnet in the
field in the middle east so... and other weird journo watchdoggie things on
immi in iceland and on documentaries but besides that i am an activist and
but also cover that in different places

frankly i have no clue why you are making such a big deal out of all of
this - maybe ask yourself ... you take cheap base shots at people that are
boring and have no place in advanced thinking debate

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 04/06/2015 05:02 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >
> >
> > my problem with laura as with jeremy is that they are too capitalistic...
> >
> >
>
> Wait what? The ONLY reference I find in a google search for "Cari Machet
> Journalist" is one lonely piece you apparently didn't even write for
> NBCNews, a Cattlepist(sic) 'news' source.
>
> Your problem is you fail to capitalize the names and you speak of them
> as if you know them when you undoubtedly don't. The latter marks you as
> a nutcase in my estimation.
>
> I truly believe, as the alt-news syndicated journalist
> <https://archive.org/details/tth_090220> I wrote copy, archived, and
> researched for once said:
>
> What you know about Journalism Cari, "could be written on the head of a
> pin by a spastic stone-cutter."
>
> Personally, I think you're an attention-whoring troll, but I COULD be
> wrong about that and you're just the plain vanilla variety.
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 10:50:44 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 19:50:44 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>

dear mirimir you cannot read

'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in support
of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that Saddam
posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being done
("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to develop
a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'

did you read the motherfucking article?

this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government says he
didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard though

also daily kos sucks


On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
> > Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
> >       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
> >       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
> >       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
>
> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
> to take on... head on.
>
> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be approached
> at all in some way that MAY change it.
>
> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives the
> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 17:00:44 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 20:00:44 -0400
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <20150407213154.886D9228290@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <CAD2Ti28Uef5QRwF_buJrTGMj0f42unKTDcKz7mM9pBNJqYkw8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150407213154.886D9228290@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-YLMDEDaqxwcpvqPJAYOUXuuu8Tp8ftpYdjtfw4tiA3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 5:31 PM,  <dan at geer.org> wrote:
>  | > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-personal-data-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html
>  | >
>  | > Privacy policies are obviously a scam.
>
>
> Any policy lasts as long as the entity whose policy it is lasts.
> Have you an alternative in mind that delivers immortality?

Bankruptcy is a financial play and is prior to and different from actual
termination of the legal existance at the secretary of state.
Until then could sue for breach of contract/policy and possibly be
awarded injunction against sale, proceeds from sale as damages, etc.
Since the value of it has at that point been zeroed, then, as with the
subsequent legal status, the seeming ethical contract action is that
remaining data should vaporize.

Another perspective... the IA and similar projects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Archive

> Who gets the keys?

Depends on your contract with the CA.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 17:18:44 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 20:18:44 -0400
Subject: Massive License Plate Databases
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29LccNWqaSMfcrZcs3DU-ieLyw+SKCN35pYRo-uhFX-Pw@mail.gmail.com>

https://cdt.org/blog/government-keeps-its-eyes-on-the-road-with-invasive-license-plate-reader-program/

On April 2, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) released a
Privacy Impact Assessment (PIA) that describes how the DHS Immigration
and Customs Enforcement (ICE) – including ICE’s primary investigative
offices, Enforcement and Removal Operations and Homeland Security
Investigations – will find the present and past location of drivers by
accessing a massive private database of vehicle location information.
The program raises serious privacy concerns, with the specter of
individuals’ location data being collected on a mass scale, stored for
a prolonged period, and used without effective restrictions.

According to the PIA, both fixed and mobile license plate readers
record license plate number, a digital image of the license plate, the
vehicle’s make, model, and state of registration, GPS location, a time
stamp, and sometimes “the environment surrounding a vehicle, which may
include drivers and passengers.” A private company – probably Vigilant
Solutions, which has amassed of database of 2.5 billion license plate
location records, will hold the data. ICE can then use license plate
numbers to query a database, and provide a “hot list” of license plate
numbers under surveillance to the private company so that when there
is a hit on one of those numbers, ICE will receive immediate notice of
the location of the license plate. Queries can uncover all recorded
sightings of a license plate for the previous five years, or as far
back as the statute of limitations for the crime being investigated.
......




From mirimir at riseup.net  Tue Apr  7 19:39:49 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 20:39:49 -0600
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQVZunvEWQQ6fZC58K6da9W84sPmmKPyDxGyLTz_zW0JSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net>
 <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUimZeuRKxASYB+4OQ=sHUOBOaWNA3Ejgzc+BAhvOgpbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5524823F.30701@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVZunvEWQQ6fZC58K6da9W84sPmmKPyDxGyLTz_zW0JSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552494F5.4030803@riseup.net>

On 04/07/2015 07:42 PM, Cari Machet wrote:

<SNIP>

> i never heard the israelis knew about the attack beforehand ?????????? i
> mean zionists....

See http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theories#Israel

I suspect that the NSA was in on it too. Crazy shit.

<SNIP>




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Apr  7 14:56:59 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:56:59 +0200
Subject: The Government Can Perv My Junk... WTF!!!
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2_jwJVrGqpQhNP97BLGy4UYfO8j1K-y_m6=oucTMvHvWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2_jwJVrGqpQhNP97BLGy4UYfO8j1K-y_m6=oucTMvHvWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2407480.HIaMN3PW1o@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 7 kwietnia 2015 15:04:16 grarpamp pisze:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
> 
> There are very few government checks on what America’s sweeping
> surveillance programs are capable of doing. John Oliver sits down with
> Edward Snowden to discuss the NSA, the balance between privacy and
> security, and dick-pics.

I usually like John Oliver, but I feel that instead of grilling Snowden, he 
should have been grilling US pro-surveillance politicians.

> http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/we-should-all-have-something-to-hide/

Good one.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Apr  7 15:02:02 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 00:02:02 +0200
Subject: Dollar Value of a Datamined "Free" Service User?
In-Reply-To: <20150407213154.886D9228290@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <20150407213154.886D9228290@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <3685443.m21VNPgkHr@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 7 kwietnia 2015 17:31:54 dan at geer.org pisze:
>  | > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901028/radioshack-puts-customers-person
>  | > al-data-up-for-sale-in-bankruptcy-auction.html
>  | > 
>  | > Privacy policies are obviously a scam.
> 
> Any policy lasts as long as the entity whose policy it is lasts.
> Have you an alternative in mind that delivers immortality?

Putting users in control, instead of "entities".

> Perhaps a different but similar example: A certifying authority goes
> bankrupt.  Who gets the keys?

Nobody should have the keys, there should be no certifying authority. We know 
how to do that already while preserving trust, confidentiality and coherence 
of communication.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 16:59:08 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 01:59:08 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls pot
 capitalist edition]
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>

i decided no to really read this after you stated i was blowing my own horn
- you dont know me at all i didnt come to the table saying i worked at this
or that place and i know blah blah i didnt even want to say i have worked
at all the places mostly because it might come across as arrogant but i
have worked in all the places i stated and i can actually prove that so ...
and someone was point blank questioning wether i am even a journo so... i
think you need to take the personal attack thing down a notch this argument
isnt about me and thats another reason i didnt want to say where i have
worked but frankly anyone that is bringing up what i bring up would have to
know something ...maybe ya think?

here is a graph for you to analyse your debate functionality which i think
is incredibly low


On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> On 4/8/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> > oh great another person that thinks they know everything because they
> > punched some letters into a search engine
>
> Look (at least some of) the folks around here have a second brain
> cell, some even have third.
>
> > i worked at indymedia in new york city democracy now and pbs > wnet in
> the
> > field in the middle east so... and other weird journo watchdoggie things
> on
> > immi in iceland and on documentaries but besides that i am an activist
> and
> > but also cover that in different places
>
> You say you are a journalist, you say you are an activist, you say you
> worked in the middle east, you say all sorts of things.
>
> To me (TM) you're blowing your trumpet excessively. Once is ok, but to
> keep blowing your own trumpet, over and over again - as in, repeatedly
> - you know, more than once, carries implications; the exact
> implications will vary by listener and are likely -not- what you want
> arising within your reader's' minds.
>
> You also keep 'pushing' your journalistic 'cred' rather than spend
> that small effort to push the SHIFT key to capitalise your sentences
> and names - that's disrespectful or at least lazy. Some of us make the
> effort for you, yet you fail to return that courtesy. And a bloody
> small courtesy it is four a journalist.
>
>
> > frankly i have no clue why you are making such a big deal
> > out of all of this
>
> Ah ... who's making the big deal? Hmm...
>
> Listen I don't hold anything against you, I don't know you and I've
> been assuming ever since I first saw your emails on this list that you
> are posting with a fake name. I do know it's hard to see oneself - in
> the hindsight of reading my own emails after the fact I have
> embarrassed myself too many times, so I empathise with your plight.
>
>
> > - maybe ask yourself ... you take cheap base shots at people that
> > are boring and have no place in advanced thinking debate
>
> Pottle, meet ket :/
>
> Given your loud self proclamations I suggest raising -your- tone. I
> would appreciate that.
>
> Secondly consider letting your work do the speaking for you. We have
> these little things called hyperlinks, which look somewhat like this:
> http://my.domain/some-intro-page.html
> - such a link in your email footer would allow those who would bother
> to verify about you for themselves without your dismal trumpet
> practice getting in the way. That's a win win, especially for you.
>
> Thirdly show a little respect to the people you write about (in email)
> and press the SHIFT key at the same time as you type the first letter
> of each name you type.
>
> Fourthly if your intention is to demonstrate consideration to your
> readers then also press that SHIFT key simultaneously to pressing the
> first letter of the first word of each sentence (these are usually the
> ones coming after a period).
>
> Fifthly raise your own tone; those with that second or third brain
> cell I spoke of can see black kettles for what they are - screeching
> about that from the stove top is not becoming for a so called
> 'journalist'. Not in the slightest. Did I mention anything about
> dignity? Well it's about your own behaviour not what others say.
> Problem with said screeching is sometimes 'you' mistake a beautiful
> silver carafe temporarily placed on the stove next to you, for a nasty
> black kettle; others see the silver carafe and cover their ears from
> the "BLACK KETTLE! BLACK KETTLE!" screeching; you start looking
> distinctly pot like and rather black.
>
> By the way that's not a good look - I can vouch for this from painful
> first hand experience :P
>
> A single rule for self which may work for you (or not, I dunno) is
> 'assume good intent'. When someone challenges self, perhaps self needs
> a challenge. When someone calls self a black kettle perhaps a little
> polishing of self is needed, a rib extraction, that sort of thing. And
> if your assumption is wrong and bad intent is coming atcha, then at
> least you've taken that polishing your act opportunity and look a
> little shinier to onlookers.
>
> THAT's what some call a win win situation :D
>
> Good luck fellow human,
> Zenaan
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 17:44:13 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 02:44:13 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>

mirimir i would have to dig up the quote where the fuck says that basically
it is good us is invading to get back at the iraqi's for 9-11

umn the iraqi's had nothing to do with 9-11 and he swallowed that tripe...
i am sorry but that is just stupid x 5 million

i dont care about his excuses my pet spider even knew it was crap

if you can give him a pass for being 'apathetic' which i wouldnt frame it
like that then that says a lot about you - its not apathy to support a
fucking invasion of a people - people that are apathetic are like i dont
know not oh yay lets do it it is a totally different mindset

and that he is here in daily kos framing out this lie says more to me about
his lack of character than anything and you of course didnt address that
part - if the fuck was an actual person he could be like yay i sucked but
now i know better i changed its so great we get to change our minds in our
lifetimes and fucking grow but does gleenny do that no he cant face himself
its pathetic he lives in his ego

ego doesnt want people saying they are wrong ever and its a death echo
chamber

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > dear mirimir you cannot read
> >
> > 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
> > institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
> > and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in
> support
> > of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that Saddam
> > posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
> > objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being done
> > ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
> > security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to
> develop
> > a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
> > would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
> >
> > did you read the motherfucking article?
>
> Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
> and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to do
> more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
> cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
> rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
> big deal in the current context. In my opinion.
>
> > this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government says
> he
> > didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard
> though
>
> I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a little ;)
>
> > also daily kos sucks
>
> Yeah, I don't read that shit.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
> >>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
> >>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
> >>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
> >>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
> >>
> >> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
> >> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
> >> to take on... head on.
> >>
> >> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
> >> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be approached
> >> at all in some way that MAY change it.
> >>
> >> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
> >> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives the
> >> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
> >> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 17:55:28 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 02:55:28 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net> <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQUimZeuRKxASYB+4OQ=sHUOBOaWNA3Ejgzc+BAhvOgpbA@mail.gmail.com>

here:
https://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/glenn-greenwald-supported-president-bush-as-he-signed-the-patriot-act/

he actually uses the fucking word 'vengeance' ... fuck

someone sent this to me on twitter long ago so this isnt anything new i am
pointing out

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:

> mirimir i would have to dig up the quote where the fuck says that
> basically it is good us is invading to get back at the iraqi's for 9-11
>
> umn the iraqi's had nothing to do with 9-11 and he swallowed that tripe...
> i am sorry but that is just stupid x 5 million
>
> i dont care about his excuses my pet spider even knew it was crap
>
> if you can give him a pass for being 'apathetic' which i wouldnt frame it
> like that then that says a lot about you - its not apathy to support a
> fucking invasion of a people - people that are apathetic are like i dont
> know not oh yay lets do it it is a totally different mindset
>
> and that he is here in daily kos framing out this lie says more to me
> about his lack of character than anything and you of course didnt address
> that part - if the fuck was an actual person he could be like yay i sucked
> but now i know better i changed its so great we get to change our minds in
> our lifetimes and fucking grow but does gleenny do that no he cant face
> himself its pathetic he lives in his ego
>
> ego doesnt want people saying they are wrong ever and its a death echo
> chamber
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
>
>> On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
>> > dear mirimir you cannot read
>> >
>> > 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and media
>> > institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media outlets
>> > and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in
>> support
>> > of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that
>> Saddam
>> > posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
>> > objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being
>> done
>> > ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
>> > security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to
>> develop
>> > a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security really
>> > would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
>> >
>> > did you read the motherfucking article?
>>
>> Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
>> and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to do
>> more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
>> cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
>> rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
>> big deal in the current context. In my opinion.
>>
>> > this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government
>> says he
>> > didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard
>> though
>>
>> I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a little
>> ;)
>>
>> > also daily kos sucks
>>
>> Yeah, I don't read that shit.
>>
>> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
>> >>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
>> >>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
>> >>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
>> >>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
>> >>
>> >> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
>> >> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO STRONG
>> >> to take on... head on.
>> >>
>> >> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence) cuts'
>> >> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be
>> approached
>> >> at all in some way that MAY change it.
>> >>
>> >> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
>> >> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives
>> the
>> >> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
>> >> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>
>


-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 18:42:07 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 03:42:07 +0200
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <5524823F.30701@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com> <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
 <55243C95.9040601@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV_Q7o4_6XJjYWnCKiWwoaNODHgzY79XnXAYrnx8D=yvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUimZeuRKxASYB+4OQ=sHUOBOaWNA3Ejgzc+BAhvOgpbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5524823F.30701@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVZunvEWQQ6fZC58K6da9W84sPmmKPyDxGyLTz_zW0JSQ@mail.gmail.com>

i dont think he is just talking about afghanistan there but you are
entitled to your opinion

i think his mind was being changed after that about iraq thats what the 2
paragraphs say to me and it was a progression - he kind of came to on the
iraq thing but then still backed the invasion anyway

i have seen another quote someone sent me on twitter - as i use to fight
with glenn on twitter about pierre and shit ... and laura ... i cant find
it ... i will keep looking - these things were out in the press before this
book was published

fyi i fought a lot with laura over her unwavering support of wikileaks she
has a huge blindspot there for sure - it was like talking a kid out of
their lollipop or going back in time and talking people out of doing human
sacrifices

i never heard the israelis knew about the attack beforehand ?????????? i
mean zionists....

saudia arabia is too important for the interests of capitalist fucks
globally not just because they produce oil but because they have money and
dont give a fuck about their people in terms of advanced politic > monarchy
- the fascist capitalist built their infrastructure and maintain it - you
think that is a few dollawolfs rrrr some change in the coach?

read: confessions of an economic hitman

and you can watch john talk about the shit here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:19 AM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:

> On 04/07/2015 06:55 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> > here:
> >
> https://extremeliberal.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/glenn-greenwald-supported-president-bush-as-he-signed-the-patriot-act/
> >
> > he actually uses the fucking word 'vengeance' ... fuck
>
> Yes, he does. But he says that about invading _Afghanistan_, not Iraq.
> He says that he took W's word on Iraq. That does not reflect well on
> him, and I'm disappointed that he hasn't acknowledged his error. But so
> it goes.
>
> It it were vengeance the US wanted, they should have invaded Saudi
> Arabia :) Free oil! They should also have cut off the fucking Israelis,
> who knew that the attack was immanent.
>
> > someone sent this to me on twitter long ago so this isnt anything new i
> am
> > pointing out
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> mirimir i would have to dig up the quote where the fuck says that
> >> basically it is good us is invading to get back at the iraqi's for 9-11
> >>
> >> umn the iraqi's had nothing to do with 9-11 and he swallowed that
> tripe...
> >> i am sorry but that is just stupid x 5 million
> >>
> >> i dont care about his excuses my pet spider even knew it was crap
> >>
> >> if you can give him a pass for being 'apathetic' which i wouldnt frame
> it
> >> like that then that says a lot about you - its not apathy to support a
> >> fucking invasion of a people - people that are apathetic are like i dont
> >> know not oh yay lets do it it is a totally different mindset
> >>
> >> and that he is here in daily kos framing out this lie says more to me
> >> about his lack of character than anything and you of course didnt
> address
> >> that part - if the fuck was an actual person he could be like yay i
> sucked
> >> but now i know better i changed its so great we get to change our minds
> in
> >> our lifetimes and fucking grow but does gleenny do that no he cant face
> >> himself its pathetic he lives in his ego
> >>
> >> ego doesnt want people saying they are wrong ever and its a death echo
> >> chamber
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:22 PM, Mirimir <mirimir at riseup.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 04/07/2015 11:50 AM, Cari Machet wrote:
> >>>> dear mirimir you cannot read
> >>>>
> >>>> 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and
> media
> >>>> institutions, I assumed - since both political parties and media
> outlets
> >>>> and journalists from across the ideological spectrum were united in
> >>> support
> >>>> of the war - that there must be some valid basis to the claim that
> >>> Saddam
> >>>> posed a threat. My basic trust in these institutions neutralized the
> >>>> objections I had and led me to passively acquiesce to what was being
> >>> done
> >>>> ("I believed then that the president was entitled to have his national
> >>>> security judgment deferred to, and to the extent that I was able to
> >>> develop
> >>>> a definitive view, I accepted his judgment that American security
> really
> >>>> would be enhanced by the invasion of this sovereign country.").'
> >>>>
> >>>> did you read the motherfucking article?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I read the motherfucking article. He says that he was apathetic,
> >>> and trusted institutions (and even that asshole W). Maybe he needs to
> do
> >>> more mea culpas for that, or cut off his left pinkie. But unless you
> >>> cite some public statement where he actively supported the invasion,
> >>> rather than just deferred to arguably better-informed opinions, it's no
> >>> big deal in the current context. In my opinion.
> >>>
> >>>> this should tell you how duplicitous he is just like the government
> >>> says he
> >>>> didnt do anything - he didnt fuck that bitch - oh he fucked them hard
> >>> though
> >>>
> >>> I'd say rather that he let Uncle Dick finger fuck him, but just a
> little
> >>> ;)
> >>>
> >>>> also daily kos sucks
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, I don't read that shit.
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 04/06/2015 10:29 PM, Juan wrote:
> >>>>>> Well, everything should have been put in the public domain
> >>>>>>       from day zero. But Snowden thought that would hurt
> >>>>>>       the interests of the american nazi state. Or maybe he didn't
> >>>>>>       want to be killed like a dog. Who knows.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know. As many people who've attempted to change the Crypto-Fascist
> >>>>> shithole called "America" have noted, the powers that be ARE TOO
> STRONG
> >>>>> to take on... head on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Snowden has set in motion The 'death of a thousand (intelligence)
> cuts'
> >>>>> to weaken the surveillance state enough that the issue can be
> >>> approached
> >>>>> at all in some way that MAY change it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As far as whether Greenwald and co or Snowden's a capitalist, or a
> >>>>> libertard, a demoncrat or rethuglican (the ONLY diff is who receives
> >>> the
> >>>>> booty from our imperial adventurism where brown people die) ...is
> >>>>> absolutely irrelevant to the end result.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cari Machet
> >> NYC 646-436-7795
> >> carimachet at gmail.com
> >> AIM carismachet
> >> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> >> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> >> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> >> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> >> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
> >>
> >> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
> >>
> >> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> >> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not
> the
> >> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> >> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> >> permission is strictly prohibited.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
Cari Machet
NYC 646-436-7795
carimachet at gmail.com
AIM carismachet
Syria +963-099 277 3243
Amman +962 077 636 9407
Berlin +49 152 11779219
Reykjavik +354 894 8650
Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>

7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187

Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email without
permission is strictly prohibited.
-------------- next part --------------
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From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr  7 14:03:38 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 07:03:38 +1000
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E1YfHYz-00010W-DJ@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <552338c8.88c98c0a.37e3.7150@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVR_NoFkUSKwNDyXJ6gYOQKtbC1EVkaAtAEkxEKOdY0gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <55236a73.a218370a.4898.4d60@mx.google.com>
 <55241246.1070609@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQV8SrjXr41x+xvB5KJyffs6Se4MOY6FZuPhPKkmNvU-Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQW7LpgtnBciOqobUPn0rZkWCe7gEVasL_VG5ZyRpLAyA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/8/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> dear mirimir you cannot read
>
> 'Nonetheless, because of the general faith I had in political and
...

"had" looks like past tense to me. Perhaps we're getting too caught up
in personal ideologies and missing the 'most people here want
something better' woods for the 'this person said something I disagree
with' tree... just a thought. Now perhaps I'm missing context -
apologies if that's the case; anyway, folks around here can be
passionate and it seems for intentions towards "something better" and
although we see through personal lenses and therefore disagree here
and there on means, methods and what 'better' could even be, I'd
rather hang out here than on slashdog...

To every individual who expresses their passion in a guided or even
misguided way, I say thank you for speaking up, it's more than most
humans can say for themselves. I carry a vague hope that in such
forums as we be here now, we might occasionally lead ourselves to
thoughts constructive for the future. Even one truly constructive
thought in a few years is much better than none.

Good luck fellow humans,
Zenaan




From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr  7 15:17:54 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 08:17:54 +1000
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls pot
 capitalist edition]
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/8/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com> wrote:
> oh great another person that thinks they know everything because they
> punched some letters into a search engine

Look (at least some of) the folks around here have a second brain
cell, some even have third.

> i worked at indymedia in new york city democracy now and pbs > wnet in the
> field in the middle east so... and other weird journo watchdoggie things on
> immi in iceland and on documentaries but besides that i am an activist and
> but also cover that in different places

You say you are a journalist, you say you are an activist, you say you
worked in the middle east, you say all sorts of things.

To me (TM) you're blowing your trumpet excessively. Once is ok, but to
keep blowing your own trumpet, over and over again - as in, repeatedly
- you know, more than once, carries implications; the exact
implications will vary by listener and are likely -not- what you want
arising within your reader's' minds.

You also keep 'pushing' your journalistic 'cred' rather than spend
that small effort to push the SHIFT key to capitalise your sentences
and names - that's disrespectful or at least lazy. Some of us make the
effort for you, yet you fail to return that courtesy. And a bloody
small courtesy it is four a journalist.


> frankly i have no clue why you are making such a big deal
> out of all of this

Ah ... who's making the big deal? Hmm...

Listen I don't hold anything against you, I don't know you and I've
been assuming ever since I first saw your emails on this list that you
are posting with a fake name. I do know it's hard to see oneself - in
the hindsight of reading my own emails after the fact I have
embarrassed myself too many times, so I empathise with your plight.


> - maybe ask yourself ... you take cheap base shots at people that
> are boring and have no place in advanced thinking debate

Pottle, meet ket :/

Given your loud self proclamations I suggest raising -your- tone. I
would appreciate that.

Secondly consider letting your work do the speaking for you. We have
these little things called hyperlinks, which look somewhat like this:
http://my.domain/some-intro-page.html
- such a link in your email footer would allow those who would bother
to verify about you for themselves without your dismal trumpet
practice getting in the way. That's a win win, especially for you.

Thirdly show a little respect to the people you write about (in email)
and press the SHIFT key at the same time as you type the first letter
of each name you type.

Fourthly if your intention is to demonstrate consideration to your
readers then also press that SHIFT key simultaneously to pressing the
first letter of the first word of each sentence (these are usually the
ones coming after a period).

Fifthly raise your own tone; those with that second or third brain
cell I spoke of can see black kettles for what they are - screeching
about that from the stove top is not becoming for a so called
'journalist'. Not in the slightest. Did I mention anything about
dignity? Well it's about your own behaviour not what others say.
Problem with said screeching is sometimes 'you' mistake a beautiful
silver carafe temporarily placed on the stove next to you, for a nasty
black kettle; others see the silver carafe and cover their ears from
the "BLACK KETTLE! BLACK KETTLE!" screeching; you start looking
distinctly pot like and rather black.

By the way that's not a good look - I can vouch for this from painful
first hand experience :P

A single rule for self which may work for you (or not, I dunno) is
'assume good intent'. When someone challenges self, perhaps self needs
a challenge. When someone calls self a black kettle perhaps a little
polishing of self is needed, a rib extraction, that sort of thing. And
if your assumption is wrong and bad intent is coming atcha, then at
least you've taken that polishing your act opportunity and look a
little shinier to onlookers.

THAT's what some call a win win situation :D

Good luck fellow human,
Zenaan




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  8 10:24:11 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:24:11 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls
 pot capitalist from a soapbox]
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5525643B.80907@riseup.net>

The question is. "Is Cari having a rational conversation with other
posters or is it soapboxing?"

Let's see:



On 04/07/2015 04:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> i decided no to really read this after you stated i was blowing my own
> horn - you dont know me at all i didnt come to the table saying i
> worked at this or that place and i know blah blah i didnt even want to
> say i have worked at all the places mostly because it might come
> across as arrogant but i have worked in all the places i stated and i
> can actually prove that so ... and someone was point blank questioning
> wether i am even a journo so... i think you need to take the personal
> attack thing down a notch this argument isnt about me and thats
> another reason i didnt want to say where i have worked but frankly
> anyone that is bringing up what i bring up would have to know
> something ...maybe ya think?
>
> here is a graph for you to analyse your debate functionality which i
> think is incredibly low
>  
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net
> <mailto:zen at freedbms.net>> wrote:
>
>     On 4/8/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com
>     <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > oh great another person that thinks they know everything because
>     they
>     > punched some letters into a search engine
>
>     Look (at least some of) the folks around here have a second brain
>     cell, some even have third.
>
>     > i worked at indymedia in new york city democracy now and pbs >
>     wnet in the
>     > field in the middle east so... and other weird journo
>     watchdoggie things on
>     > immi in iceland and on documentaries but besides that i am an
>     activist and
>     > but also cover that in different places
>
>     You say you are a journalist, you say you are an activist, you say you
>     worked in the middle east, you say all sorts of things.
>
>     To me (TM) you're blowing your trumpet excessively. Once is ok, but to
>     keep blowing your own trumpet, over and over again - as in, repeatedly
>     - you know, more than once, carries implications; the exact
>     implications will vary by listener and are likely -not- what you want
>     arising within your reader's' minds.
>
>     You also keep 'pushing' your journalistic 'cred' rather than spend
>     that small effort to push the SHIFT key to capitalise your sentences
>     and names - that's disrespectful or at least lazy. Some of us make the
>     effort for you, yet you fail to return that courtesy. And a bloody
>     small courtesy it is four a journalist.
>
>
>     > frankly i have no clue why you are making such a big deal
>     > out of all of this
>
>     Ah ... who's making the big deal? Hmm...
>
>     Listen I don't hold anything against you, I don't know you and I've
>     been assuming ever since I first saw your emails on this list that you
>     are posting with a fake name. I do know it's hard to see oneself - in
>     the hindsight of reading my own emails after the fact I have
>     embarrassed myself too many times, so I empathise with your plight.
>
>
>     > - maybe ask yourself ... you take cheap base shots at people that
>     > are boring and have no place in advanced thinking debate
>
>     Pottle, meet ket :/
>
>     Given your loud self proclamations I suggest raising -your- tone. I
>     would appreciate that.
>
>     Secondly consider letting your work do the speaking for you. We have
>     these little things called hyperlinks, which look somewhat like this:
>     http://my.domain/some-intro-page.html
>     - such a link in your email footer would allow those who would bother
>     to verify about you for themselves without your dismal trumpet
>     practice getting in the way. That's a win win, especially for you.
>
>     Thirdly show a little respect to the people you write about (in email)
>     and press the SHIFT key at the same time as you type the first letter
>     of each name you type.
>
>     Fourthly if your intention is to demonstrate consideration to your
>     readers then also press that SHIFT key simultaneously to pressing the
>     first letter of the first word of each sentence (these are usually the
>     ones coming after a period).
>
>     Fifthly raise your own tone; those with that second or third brain
>     cell I spoke of can see black kettles for what they are - screeching
>     about that from the stove top is not becoming for a so called
>     'journalist'. Not in the slightest. Did I mention anything about
>     dignity? Well it's about your own behaviour not what others say.
>     Problem with said screeching is sometimes 'you' mistake a beautiful
>     silver carafe temporarily placed on the stove next to you, for a nasty
>     black kettle; others see the silver carafe and cover their ears from
>     the "BLACK KETTLE! BLACK KETTLE!" screeching; you start looking
>     distinctly pot like and rather black.
>
>     By the way that's not a good look - I can vouch for this from painful
>     first hand experience :P
>
>     A single rule for self which may work for you (or not, I dunno) is
>     'assume good intent'. When someone challenges self, perhaps self needs
>     a challenge. When someone calls self a black kettle perhaps a little
>     polishing of self is needed, a rib extraction, that sort of thing. And
>     if your assumption is wrong and bad intent is coming atcha, then at
>     least you've taken that polishing your act opportunity and look a
>     little shinier to onlookers.
>
>     THAT's what some call a win win situation :D
>
>     Good luck fellow human,
>     Zenaan
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>


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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr  8 10:28:33 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:28:33 -0700
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls
 pot capitalist edition]
In-Reply-To: <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55256541.6080208@riseup.net>

Link to chart, Are we having a rational discussion:

http://www.jamespegram.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/discussion-flow-chart.jpg



On 04/07/2015 04:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
> i decided no to really read this after you stated i was blowing my own
> horn - you dont know me at all i didnt come to the table saying i
> worked at this or that place and i know blah blah i didnt even want to
> say i have worked at all the places mostly because it might come
> across as arrogant but i have worked in all the places i stated and i
> can actually prove that so ... and someone was point blank questioning
> wether i am even a journo so... i think you need to take the personal
> attack thing down a notch this argument isnt about me and thats
> another reason i didnt want to say where i have worked but frankly
> anyone that is bringing up what i bring up would have to know
> something ...maybe ya think?
>
> here is a graph for you to analyse your debate functionality which i
> think is incredibly low
>  
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net
> <mailto:zen at freedbms.net>> wrote:
>
>     On 4/8/15, Cari Machet <carimachet at gmail.com
>     <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > oh great another person that thinks they know everything because
>     they
>     > punched some letters into a search engine
>
>     Look (at least some of) the folks around here have a second brain
>     cell, some even have third.
>
>     > i worked at indymedia in new york city democracy now and pbs >
>     wnet in the
>     > field in the middle east so... and other weird journo
>     watchdoggie things on
>     > immi in iceland and on documentaries but besides that i am an
>     activist and
>     > but also cover that in different places
>
>     You say you are a journalist, you say you are an activist, you say you
>     worked in the middle east, you say all sorts of things.
>
>     To me (TM) you're blowing your trumpet excessively. Once is ok, but to
>     keep blowing your own trumpet, over and over again - as in, repeatedly
>     - you know, more than once, carries implications; the exact
>     implications will vary by listener and are likely -not- what you want
>     arising within your reader's' minds.
>
>     You also keep 'pushing' your journalistic 'cred' rather than spend
>     that small effort to push the SHIFT key to capitalise your sentences
>     and names - that's disrespectful or at least lazy. Some of us make the
>     effort for you, yet you fail to return that courtesy. And a bloody
>     small courtesy it is four a journalist.
>
>
>     > frankly i have no clue why you are making such a big deal
>     > out of all of this
>
>     Ah ... who's making the big deal? Hmm...
>
>     Listen I don't hold anything against you, I don't know you and I've
>     been assuming ever since I first saw your emails on this list that you
>     are posting with a fake name. I do know it's hard to see oneself - in
>     the hindsight of reading my own emails after the fact I have
>     embarrassed myself too many times, so I empathise with your plight.
>
>
>     > - maybe ask yourself ... you take cheap base shots at people that
>     > are boring and have no place in advanced thinking debate
>
>     Pottle, meet ket :/
>
>     Given your loud self proclamations I suggest raising -your- tone. I
>     would appreciate that.
>
>     Secondly consider letting your work do the speaking for you. We have
>     these little things called hyperlinks, which look somewhat like this:
>     http://my.domain/some-intro-page.html
>     - such a link in your email footer would allow those who would bother
>     to verify about you for themselves without your dismal trumpet
>     practice getting in the way. That's a win win, especially for you.
>
>     Thirdly show a little respect to the people you write about (in email)
>     and press the SHIFT key at the same time as you type the first letter
>     of each name you type.
>
>     Fourthly if your intention is to demonstrate consideration to your
>     readers then also press that SHIFT key simultaneously to pressing the
>     first letter of the first word of each sentence (these are usually the
>     ones coming after a period).
>
>     Fifthly raise your own tone; those with that second or third brain
>     cell I spoke of can see black kettles for what they are - screeching
>     about that from the stove top is not becoming for a so called
>     'journalist'. Not in the slightest. Did I mention anything about
>     dignity? Well it's about your own behaviour not what others say.
>     Problem with said screeching is sometimes 'you' mistake a beautiful
>     silver carafe temporarily placed on the stove next to you, for a nasty
>     black kettle; others see the silver carafe and cover their ears from
>     the "BLACK KETTLE! BLACK KETTLE!" screeching; you start looking
>     distinctly pot like and rather black.
>
>     By the way that's not a good look - I can vouch for this from painful
>     first hand experience :P
>
>     A single rule for self which may work for you (or not, I dunno) is
>     'assume good intent'. When someone challenges self, perhaps self needs
>     a challenge. When someone calls self a black kettle perhaps a little
>     polishing of self is needed, a rib extraction, that sort of thing. And
>     if your assumption is wrong and bad intent is coming atcha, then at
>     least you've taken that polishing your act opportunity and look a
>     little shinier to onlookers.
>
>     THAT's what some call a win win situation :D
>
>     Good luck fellow human,
>     Zenaan
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cari Machet
> NYC 646-436-7795
> carimachet at gmail.com <mailto:carimachet at gmail.com>
> AIM carismachet
> Syria +963-099 277 3243
> Amman +962 077 636 9407
> Berlin +49 152 11779219
> Reykjavik +354 894 8650
> Twitter: @carimachet <https://twitter.com/carimachet>
>
> 7035 690E 5E47 41D4 B0E5 B3D1 AF90 49D6 BE09 2187
>
> Ruh-roh, this is now necessary: This email is intended only for the
> addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you are not the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of this
> information, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email
> without
> permission is strictly prohibited.
>
>


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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 11:38:10 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 14:38:10 -0400
Subject: Vulns of social/freedom initiatives, NSA 0wn3d CPUs, BTC,
 Infra and Politic
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28jhdy7Nq3FBMafSSCMkJgbKQ1mFME0OapTQXyeqLk=0Q@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-_KVkQfm-o

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/31umjo/3m_video_are_intel_processors_compromised/
http://invisiblethingslab.com/press/itl-press-2009-03.pdf
http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/vegas-toys-part-i-ring-3-tools.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFSvttMg6E
http://www.iamsatoshi.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/IamSatoshiNakamoto
http://vinay.howtolivewiki.com/blog/
http://re.silience.com/




From dal at riseup.net  Wed Apr  8 15:21:59 2015
From: dal at riseup.net (Douglas Lucas)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 17:21:59 -0500
Subject: Voting machine hacks
Message-ID: <5525AA07.4030506@riseup.net>

As U.S. election approaches...what are your least/favorite examples of
hacks of (esp. U.S.) computerized voting systems? You know, technical
ones, not propaganda and the idea of democractic voting itself.

BlackBoxVoting.org has an interesting collection of PDFs[1] of
technical material, including manuals, schematics, and troubleshooting,
for various voting system manufacturers, plus reports detailing
problems. (There are also the more straightforward non-technical issues,
like allowing people to actually watch the vote-counting.)

There's also the instance[2] of hackers putting Pac-Man on the Sequoia
AVC-Edge DRE voting machine without breaking any of the tamper-evident
seals.

Finally...in honor of all elections, to use a corporate term: blue-sky
thinking. If you were going after (esp. U.S.) computerized voting
systems, what would you do?

Douglas

[1] http://blackboxvoting.org/reports/voting-system-technical-information/

[2] https://jhalderm.com/pacman/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 15:29:13 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 18:29:13 -0400
Subject: Engineers vs Thugs... Building Institutions, Cpunks and Cohesion
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-7FxxcW7y+FhY82ovZs7knwaAyWkEHiLrm_o4spznAJA@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KybZAEm0stY




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 15:39:47 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 18:39:47 -0400
Subject: Voting machine hacks
In-Reply-To: <5525AA07.4030506@riseup.net>
References: <5525AA07.4030506@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti284ZsYKu0uubzQ+wXV3GfwdiTGcSuUes8LrxqoLZ8954w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Douglas Lucas <dal at riseup.net> wrote:
> Finally...in honor of all elections, to use a corporate term: blue-sky
> thinking. If you were going after (esp. U.S.) computerized voting
> systems, what would you do?

Besides smash them for being a completely unnecessary obfuscation?
... program them to discard votes for Rep or Dem candidates until
three or more parties and independants arise.




From hellekin at dyne.org  Wed Apr  8 18:36:07 2015
From: hellekin at dyne.org (hellekin)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 22:36:07 -0300
Subject: Voting machine hacks
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti284ZsYKu0uubzQ+wXV3GfwdiTGcSuUes8LrxqoLZ8954w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5525AA07.4030506@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti284ZsYKu0uubzQ+wXV3GfwdiTGcSuUes8LrxqoLZ8954w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5525D787.2070900@dyne.org>

On 04/08/2015 07:39 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> If you were going after (esp. U.S.) computerized voting
> systems, what would you do?
> 
*** Superglue.

==
hk

-- 
 _ _     We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/




From zen at freedbms.net  Wed Apr  8 15:22:00 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:22:00 +1000
Subject: Greenwald, Scahill step down from The Intercept [kettle calls pot
 capitalist from a soapbox]
In-Reply-To: <5525643B.80907@riseup.net>
References: <op.xwltisiqbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5521cb3c.88c98c0a.37e3.ffff93aa@mx.google.com>
 <CAGRDzQVkoEJe-vKEiBbeXVkz2V3EKWOhDmSX9Rc+BuMQz25fFg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55228455.5040500@riseup.net>
 <BE37C318-5D1E-4468-8947-B25EF1FE40EF@gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQWhCiLWPJ7D=Mefskz8_CjkTTv2wHKOokdHX1FeH7phJQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522CECC.9090404@riseup.net> <5522E8E0.2000006@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQVSjZUOiB7_zsX_G2NgLQcZ6wb8aCK1-mHXL3VO4_M0CQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5522FA86.4060404@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQW3zQ_=S=FN281=4+T7fdzGP8NXwDwQ=C7rsm3BzJNrKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55230869.9080102@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQX-A9d+Jjxd-cjDUBsBW5tYow5=haFGgHPA-a8yG8ohyQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <55240EF0.9010405@riseup.net>
 <CAGRDzQUr1vb7oi-kbhNofndZ648C3W9RguO3wZiM5dD0XCgHyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOsGNSTPfmxe53TqBy2a1fmbR5CO+e9CEKJga11rN3Jqtot_=A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGRDzQUX8Vboy5hPNoysHTEL-mNqAVK_5XFsD6DWfQ_fyGkp+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5525643B.80907@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRFL8bQ8THN8XCdNSJb_+rPEr3U-TM8vH9KUJcMMLTADA@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/9/15, Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net> wrote:
> The question is. "Is Cari having a rational conversation with other
> posters or is it soapboxing?"

> On 04/07/2015 04:59 PM, Cari Machet wrote:
...
>> wether i am even a journo so... i think you need to take the personal
>> attack thing down a notch this argument isnt about me and thats

Cari comes across to me as passionate, and wanting to see some justice
in the world for a change yet unfortunately for Cari, persists in
couching much of what is put in reply to her/him as a personal attack.

What may look like lack of rationality or soapboxing, may just be
failure to communicate effectively given what the person is
experiencing in themselves and their ability to communicate (ability
being one of those gradient vector scale type thingies).

Good luck all,
Zenaan




From dal at riseup.net  Thu Apr  9 13:24:34 2015
From: dal at riseup.net (Douglas Lucas)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:24:34 -0500
Subject: Voting machine hacks
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti284ZsYKu0uubzQ+wXV3GfwdiTGcSuUes8LrxqoLZ8954w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5525AA07.4030506@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti284ZsYKu0uubzQ+wXV3GfwdiTGcSuUes8LrxqoLZ8954w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5526E002.1090209@riseup.net>

Thanks all, I was thinking this would be more a Libtech question than a
cpunks one ;-)

I confess, editor asked me to do the topic, but I'm taking it on the
basis that 1) more skepticism about voting the better, since voting
sucks; 2) democracy sucks, and basically my strategy is becoming to
write an article such that I can add to the tweets promoting it a link
to a blog post or some such with more radical material like this one
against democracy altogether:
https://georgiebc.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/the-problems-with-democracy-2/

But still! If you have something creative or useful to say about
e-voting hacks, scandals, etc., please do chime in before this thread
meets the dustbin of history.

There's the case of the Karl Rove IT guy, present for many e-voting
scandals, who died in the suspicious plane crash right before
testifying:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/12/22/republican_it_specialist_dies_in_plane

On 04/08/2015 05:39 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Douglas Lucas <dal at riseup.net> wrote:
>> Finally...in honor of all elections, to use a corporate term: blue-sky
>> thinking. If you were going after (esp. U.S.) computerized voting
>> systems, what would you do?
> 
> Besides smash them for being a completely unnecessary obfuscation?
> ... program them to discard votes for Rep or Dem candidates until
> three or more parties and independants arise.
> 




From l at odewijk.nl  Thu Apr  9 06:30:14 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 22:30:14 +0900
Subject: Vulns of social/freedom initiatives, NSA 0wn3d CPUs, BTC, Infra
 and Politic
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28jhdy7Nq3FBMafSSCMkJgbKQ1mFME0OapTQXyeqLk=0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28jhdy7Nq3FBMafSSCMkJgbKQ1mFME0OapTQXyeqLk=0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rLoXM+WUcg8gBq8miFpkpjiTwZZ-NHdeQc7O8wL+aKV9Q@mail.gmail.com>

I've been pondering Intel's chips for a while now. It was what made me
decide against making a Bitcoin wallet service. Since my decision a slew of
services inferior to what I had failed for various reasons. Can't say what
would've happened, if I had proceeded.

Is there any evidence for or against the Intel chip exploits? (Other than
"They could do it, and why wouldn't they?")
Is there any reason to expect AMD to be any better?
What about (certain?) ARM chips?
What about MediaTek?
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From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 23:21:31 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 23:21:31 -0700
Subject: FOIPA adventures
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1SaJpNaPQx=s_7VVM==ony2sH0aUG3w11cjNX6escSm8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1TUfu40206TOzK2kBsgCvbgBYYXmyKZ3E5n4KQuoEtZyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1QtgMky_hsDLsmFwiXcxE528bZaDOQsjTqqj4tR-dbGBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RwoyoRs-REWnhGd8cHZM6EJvcziTUDXbU5A6TMigOT6A@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/4/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> i am content to let PA req stay nonexistant;


this was best addressed as a separate, dedicated effort, after all :P
  https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/foipa-17315/
    [ not even gonna embargo this one ... ]

coordinating DoJ-361 through MuckRock.com this time, and legal muscle
on retainer specialized in FOIA/PA for the next steps... let's
experiment with goal: no redactions; fight all omissions!

.
.
.

game theory says just one a compromise; potential for beneficial
resolution. yet negative sums as counter signal also apply... stay
tuned for onion site additions; SDRs and sensors see as well as thwart
:)




From list at sysfu.com  Thu Apr  9 23:59:29 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 23:59:29 -0700
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
Message-ID: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

Hat tip to Steve Weis twitter account @sweis

https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md

End User Tool Summary

This is a quick summary of tools that are generally recommended for end  
users. See the Encryption Works guide for more information.

GPG: Email encryption
TextSecure: Encrypted SMS Messaging
RedPhone: Encrypted voice calls
OTR: Encrypted instant messaging
Tor: Protect from network surveillance




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Fri Apr 10 09:28:25 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:28:25 -0700
Subject: Stingrays & Hailstorms
In-Reply-To: <5FA162B0-1EA6-4B24-AE71-DB6D9EF1E86B@gmail.com>
References: <5FA162B0-1EA6-4B24-AE71-DB6D9EF1E86B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14ca4292858.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

Thanks for posting this.

Btw, your hyperlink has hidden tracking.  Here is the direct url:
http://phys.org/news/2015-04-baltimore-police-surveil-cellphones-secrecy.html

-S

----------
On April 10, 2015 4:54:24 AM Henry Rivera <4chaos.onelove at gmail.com> wrote:

> Police and state prosecutors publicly acknowledge (albeit implicitly in 
> some cases) that they fail to disclose their frequent use of spoofed mobile 
> phone towers in criminal cases, which is very much in violation of 
> constitutional law on searches and law addressing disclosure in criminal 
> proceedings. They assert they can do so because the Feds told them to. What 
> other illegal surveillance are they routinely conducting and using in the 
> service of prosecutions that they fail to disclose?
> http://phys.org/news/2015-04-baltimore-police-surveil-cellphones-secrecy.html
>
>





From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Apr 10 02:17:44 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:17:44 +0100
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <CA107899-827B-4B12-96E3-2F3437AA87D3@cathalgarvey.me>

TextSecure no longer supports SMS and the data channel requires installing bundles from Google, an NSA asset. Use SMSSecure, an SMS-only fork of TextSecure, also on FDroid store now whereas TextSecure was pulled from FDroid by the devs to maintain their Google-only distribution system.

On 10 April 2015 07:59:29 GMT+01:00, Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:
>Hat tip to Steve Weis twitter account @sweis
>
>https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>
>End User Tool Summary
>
>This is a quick summary of tools that are generally recommended for end
> 
>users. See the Encryption Works guide for more information.
>
>GPG: Email encryption
>TextSecure: Encrypted SMS Messaging
>RedPhone: Encrypted voice calls
>OTR: Encrypted instant messaging
>Tor: Protect from network surveillance

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From hellekin at dyne.org  Fri Apr 10 06:44:02 2015
From: hellekin at dyne.org (hellekin)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:44:02 -0300
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>

On 04/10/2015 03:59 AM, Seth wrote:
> 
> https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>
*** When EFF launched the Secure Messaging Scoreboard, lynX and I were a
bit pissed that they even mentioned proprietary solutions, so we made an
alternate list:

http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard

==
hk

-- 
 _ _     We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/




From s at ctrlc.hu  Fri Apr 10 01:51:28 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:51:28 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <20150410085128.GA7166@ctrlc.hu>

On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 11:59:29PM -0700, Seth wrote:
> TextSecure: Encrypted SMS Messaging
> RedPhone: Encrypted voice calls

i dispute phones can handle any crypto in the interest of it's physical
operator. those devices are not yours, having keys on someone elses device is
the category "sucks". also consider the extreme malleability of the underlying
"platform" better described as bugdoor-by-design.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Apr 10 11:12:01 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:12:01 -0700
Subject: Stingrays & Hailstorms
In-Reply-To: <5FA162B0-1EA6-4B24-AE71-DB6D9EF1E86B@gmail.com>
References: <5FA162B0-1EA6-4B24-AE71-DB6D9EF1E86B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55281271.6020405@riseup.net>

Odd that the tracking tag, albeit apparently benign in this case
(/utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=ctgr-item&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter/),
didn't show up as text ... assuming it was a simple cut/paste.


On 04/10/2015 04:07 AM, Henry Rivera wrote:
> Police and state prosecutors publicly acknowledge (albeit implicitly
> in some cases) that they fail to disclose their frequent use of
> spoofed mobile phone towers in criminal cases, which is very much in
> violation of constitutional law on searches and law addressing
> disclosure in criminal proceedings. They assert they can do so because
> the Feds told them to. What other illegal surveillance are they
> routinely conducting and using in the service of prosecutions that
> they fail to disclose?
> http://phys.org/news/2015-04-baltimore-police-surveil-cellphones-secrecy.html
> <http://phys.org/news/2015-04-baltimore-police-surveil-cellphones-secrecy.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=ctgr-item&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter>
>
>
>
>


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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Apr 10 02:56:12 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 11:56:12 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <CA107899-827B-4B12-96E3-2F3437AA87D3@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <CA107899-827B-4B12-96E3-2F3437AA87D3@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <1862864.fxsS2YJMXV@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 10 kwietnia 2015 10:17:44 Cathal pisze:
> Use SMSSecure, an SMS-only fork of TextSecure, also on FDroid store now
> whereas TextSecure was pulled from FDroid by the devs to maintain their
> Google-only distribution system.

Didn't know about SMSSecure, thanks!

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From mike at confidantmail.org  Fri Apr 10 12:08:04 2015
From: mike at confidantmail.org (Mike Ingle)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:08:04 -0700
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
Message-ID: <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>

How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant Mail 
qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in transit.

On 4/10/2015 6:44 AM, hellekin wrote:
> On 04/10/2015 03:59 AM, Seth wrote:
>   
>> https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>>
>>     
> *** When EFF launched the Secure Messaging Scoreboard, lynX and I were a
> bit pissed that they even mentioned proprietary solutions, so we made an
> alternate list:
>
> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
>
> ==
> hk
>
>   




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Fri Apr 10 10:17:07 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:17:07 -0400
Subject: Covert wireless (was: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free
 baseband)
Message-ID: <N1B-UPHAC0etrW@Safe-mail.net>

"The device in your purse or jeans that you think is a cellphone — guess again. It is a tracking device that happens to make calls. Let’s stop calling them phones. They are trackers."

https://www.propublica.org/article/thats-no-phone.-thats-my-tracker


SF,

Most mobile phone users (like most citizens) are more than willing to sacrifice their privacy for convenience, socializing and entertainment. Educating them and changing their behaviours will, in the long run, probably bring the most benefits. Cypherpunks have been rather poor at this. A sucessful multiplayer game, requiring the use of criminal/spy/intel tradecraft and security tools, would be a great first step. Once these players integrate these tools and skills into their daily lives and pressure friends and family to do likewise it could prove insideous to law enforcement and intel agency privacy violations and turn the tide.

Having a fully open mobile phone is good first step which can improve privacy when used with existing mobile networks but its only a first step. Alternative networks (e.g., WiFi mesh and open femtocell networks) are an obvious direction for improvement but their build out is problematic. Another way is to enable alternative communications that either need no infrastructure (think amateur radio) or covertly utilize existing commercial services (I mentioned pagers in my last post). The mobile phones would offer excellent user interfaces and processing the element of an affordable and flexible software radio transceiver.

I delivered a paper last October regarding the reasons such alternatives are needed, reviewed recent developments and offered some practical directions for future work (some of which I am pursuing):

http://www.paralelnipolis.cz/pp-congress-2014/WWPP.pdf


Feedback from you and readers of this list is kindly sought.

WW


-------- Original Message --------
From: falcon at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Spacefalcon the Outlaw)
To: wirelesswarrior at Safe-mail.net
Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org, Blibbet <blibbet at gmail.com>
Subject: re: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free baseband
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 06:56:09 GMT

> Hi WW,
> 
> > Although creating an open GSM mobile modem is an interesting technical
> > exercise [...]
> 
> I take offense at the way you trivialize it.  It is not just "an
> interesting technical exercise", but a way to dramatically improve the
> quality of life for cellphone users.
> 
> Yes, I realize that it is possible to live without cellphones.  I lived
> without them for the first 20-odd years of my life, so I know it's
> possible.  But like many others, I am now addicted to the ability to
> call my significant other or receive calls from her no matter where I
> am.
> 
> Yes, it's an addiction, and arguably an unhealthy one, just like drugs.
> In that light my project may be seen as a harm reduction measure.  If,
> for example, a person is addicted to injectable heroin and won't quit
> no matter what, it would be better to have that person receive his/her
> heroin injections in a safe medical setting than to buy junk on the
> street and inject it with dirty needles.  It's called harm reduction.
> 
> By the same logic, if a person is addicted to the always-on reachability
> provided by traditional cellular networks and won't give it up no
> matter what, it would be much better if s/he can connect to these
> cellular networks using free software (in the FSF definition) than the
> utterly proprietary kind that all commercial handsets ship with.
> 
> In my own case, I am a cellphone addict, and my quality of life is
> currently very negatively impacted by the proprietary software running
> on my cellular phone handset.  The rest of life is completely free
> from proprietary software: no Windows, no MacOS, I run Slackware on my
> x86 devices and I also greatly enjoy my 1980s VAX minicomputers running
> my own version of BSD UNIX.  My home Internet connection is served by
> a modem which I designed and built myself - Open Source Hardware, of
> course.  But the moment I would like to pick up the phone to call my
> dear significant other and tell her how much I love her, I have to use
> a device that runs proprietary firmware.  This situation causes me an
> enormous amount of distress.
> 
> I seek to improve my quality of life by freeing it (my life) from
> proprietary software.  The cellphone in my purse (I'm M2F transgender)
> is the last frontier.  The handset hardware (it's a Pirelli DP-L10) is
> absolutely perfect for my needs, but the proprietary firmware ruins it.
> I need to replace this proprietary firmware with one which I compile
> from source myself and which I can improve as my needs evolve.
> 
> I hope that I am not the only cellphone addict whose quality of life
> can be improved by replacing proprietary firmware in the handset with
> free software.  When it comes to freeing my own life from proprietary
> software, I can do it on my own without any crowdfunding.  I already
> have an Openmoko phone and about 15 Pirellis, so I have everything I
> need.  But I very much hope that the number of people who can benefit
> from my work is greater than 15, and if it is, then my available stash
> of Pirellis won't be enough.
> 
> If there are more than 15 people in the world whose quality of life
> can be improved by replacing their handset proprietary fw with free
> sw, then we need to build our own hardware to solve the problem of the
> pre-existing old models being in too short supply.  This hardware work
> is what costs money, hence the crowdfunding campaign.
> 
> Thus regardless of whether my crowdfunding campaign succeeds or not, I
> *will* have a phone in my purse running 100% free firmware.  But if
> anyone else would also like to have such a phone, we need the
> crowdfunding campaign to succeed so we can build more phones than the
> 15 or so Pirellis in my stash.  The matter is now in your hands, where
> "you" refers to the community at large.
> 
> > PS: Suggest you enable lower contribution steps for crowd funding. They are
> > too high for many who might like to help but cannot afford or justify the
> > current steps.
> 
> There are no "steps"; one can donate as little as $1.  Those who donate
> $100 or more can opt to receive a "perk" (Indiegogo term) as a reward
> for his/her donation.
> 
> I am not able to offer perks for donations below $100 as the cost of
> fulfilling those perks would eat up the money and there would be little
> if anything left for the actual project, defeating the purpose.
> 
> SF




From mike at confidantmail.org  Fri Apr 10 13:43:51 2015
From: mike at confidantmail.org (Mike Ingle)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:43:51 -0700
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <3B7859B1-B363-49F2-8F3C-26BFB094FA64@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
 <3B7859B1-B363-49F2-8F3C-26BFB094FA64@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <55283607.5020802@confidantmail.org>

My software goes through Tor hidden services (or exit node if necessary) 
and sets up a TLS session inside that.
The From address of the mail only exists inside the encrypted envelope, 
which only the recipient can open.
If someone had a global view of the Tor nodes, they might be able to 
track a particular message via timing, but going through Tor prevents 
mass surveillance by a passive observer.

Mike

On 4/10/2015 12:28 PM, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> Metadata includes who speaks to who, which can only be hidden by 
> obfuscation in a mixnet, public-message-boards that recipients pull 
> randomly or fully from, or similar ways of removing means of 
> connecting endpoints.
>
> On 10 April 2015 20:08:04 GMT+01:00, Mike Ingle 
> <mike at confidantmail.org> wrote:
>
>     How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant Mail 
>     qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in transit.
>
>     On 4/10/2015 6:44 AM, hellekin wrote:
>
>         On 04/10/2015 03:59 AM, Seth wrote:
>
>             https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>
>
>         *** When EFF launched the Secure Messaging Scoreboard, lynX
>         and I were a bit pissed that they even mentioned proprietary
>         solutions, so we made an alternate list:
>         http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
>         == hk 
>
>
>         
>
>
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 12:41:44 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:41:44 -0400
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <20150410141350.GG7166@ctrlc.hu>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <20150410141350.GG7166@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2-y5Zzg5gZd16=QWAudAhDnyc7KhPzLp1Ts0FDWq7sRTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, stef <s at ctrlc.hu> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:44:02AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard

> grarpamp, what you say about goldbug in there? :)

Serious reservations about goldbug ethics, thus goldbug itself.
Do own research, start search: cypherpunks goldbug




From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Fri Apr 10 12:50:19 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 15:50:19 -0400
Subject: Kickstarter - Konekt Dash: Cellular Dev Kit + Free Global Data Plan
Message-ID: <N1B-EYh5TFUa82@Safe-mail.net>

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/konekt/konekt-dash-cellular-dev-kit-free-global-data-plan

The Konekt Dash is a cellular development kit for building Internet of Things (IoT) devices. You can use it to build all sorts of fun connected products like sensors, tracking devices, alarm systems, connected car applications, and more (see examples below).

The Konekt Platform is made to bring enterprise grade features to the individual developer, so its perfect for a solo hobby project or building the connected hardware business of your dreams!

Each Konekt Dash comes preloaded with a Konekt Global SIM and 6 months of our basic data plan (1MB/month or 6MB total).  If you need more data, thats cool too; we have great carrier agreements already in place to provide super affordable connectivity at higher data levels (check the deets below for pricing).

The Konekt Dash will work anywhere you get a cellular signal and can easily and securely communicate to the internet or other devices via the Konekt Cloud.  

Get started right away by choosing the SIM-only reward tier or one of our Cellular Ardunio, Pi, or Beaglebone Kits.  These rewards ship in May following the completion of the campaign.




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 16:11:15 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:11:15 -0700
Subject: Covert wireless (was: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free
 baseband)
In-Reply-To: <N1B-UPHAC0etrW@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-UPHAC0etrW@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1T2cu55xwOi7+hShP-a_OHOQBzwckeeH6hJCkpzs7MyHg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> ... I delivered a paper last October regarding the reasons such alternatives are
> needed, reviewed recent developments and offered some practical directions
> for future work (some of which I am pursuing):
>
> http://www.paralelnipolis.cz/pp-congress-2014/WWPP.pdf


i didn't see mention of MIMO / beam forming systems for both better
throughput and greater privacy.

and as common as HackRF is, there are better kits. why was this unit
in particular chosen?

hard problems ahead!




From s at ctrlc.hu  Fri Apr 10 07:13:50 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:13:50 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
 <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
Message-ID: <20150410141350.GG7166@ctrlc.hu>

On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:44:02AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard

i'm not sure the "mostly working" category is well researched,
grarpamp, what you say about goldbug in there? :)

also other items in there seem dubious. some less. ;)

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Apr 10 12:28:04 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 20:28:04 +0100
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
Message-ID: <3B7859B1-B363-49F2-8F3C-26BFB094FA64@cathalgarvey.me>

Metadata includes who speaks to who, which can only be hidden by obfuscation in a mixnet, public-message-boards that recipients pull randomly or fully from, or similar ways of removing means of connecting endpoints.

On 10 April 2015 20:08:04 GMT+01:00, Mike Ingle <mike at confidantmail.org> wrote:
>How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant Mail 
>qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in
>transit.
>
>On 4/10/2015 6:44 AM, hellekin wrote:
>> On 04/10/2015 03:59 AM, Seth wrote:
>>   
>>> https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>>>
>>>     
>> *** When EFF launched the Secure Messaging Scoreboard, lynX and I
>were a
>> bit pissed that they even mentioned proprietary solutions, so we made
>an
>> alternate list:
>>
>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
>>
>> ==
>> hk
>>
>>   

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net  Fri Apr 10 17:49:05 2015
From: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net (wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 20:49:05 -0400
Subject: Covert wireless (was: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free
 baseband)
Message-ID: <N1B-BufQc4mn7q@Safe-mail.net>

-------- Original Message --------
From: coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
To: wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net
Cc: falcon at ivan.harhan.org, cypherpunks at cpunks.org
Subject: Re: Covert wireless (was: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free baseband)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:11:15 -0700

> On 4/10/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> > ... I delivered a paper last October regarding the reasons such alternatives are
> > needed, reviewed recent developments and offered some practical directions
> > for future work (some of which I am pursuing):
> >
> > http://www.paralelnipolis.cz/pp-congress-2014/WWPP.pdf
> 
> 
> i didn't see mention of MIMO / beam forming systems for both better
> throughput and greater privacy.

I did not look closely at MIMO due to the lack of inexpensive SDR solutions and their lack of utility at lower bands.

> 
> and as common as HackRF is, there are better kits. why was this unit
> in particular chosen?

Mainly price and frequency coverage. Since my interest is mainly on apps that require transmitting I did not focus on receviers. Starting at twice the HackRF's cost the USRPs are a best buy at the low end.

The HackRF's weakness main weakness is its 8-bit ADC and lack of pre-selector to limit strong out-of-band input signals and reduce out-of-band transmiter spurs. However, it has an internal header to which daughter boards can be added and its CPDL can be reprogrammed for these add-ons and other changes. On the receive side a cheap coax bandstop filter, with acceptable insertion loss, can easily be fabricated to knock down the FM broadcast and pager transmitter signals instead of a pre-selector.

What other kits were you thinking of?

WW

> 
> hard problems ahead!




From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Apr 10 04:02:29 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:02:29 +1000
Subject: Joe SixPack - How to respond to Idiocracy? - was Fwd: WARNING: Mobile
 Phone Virus.
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQUptqs9iv35c7hgtkxTvfvPGQWFp_aNLC+sOd6zn_Mhg@mail.gmail.com>

So I got the email below in my inbox. From a well meaning person but
to me personally it's just spam - the well-paved road to hell of
course.

So then I thinks "what might be useful to the other recipients of this
well-meaning email sender?"

And I almost hit reply-all to whip up something which might actually
be useful to folks.

But "install CyanogenMod" is probably, may be, just slightly tiny bit
too technical for most people. They'd have to figure out how to sync/
backup their contacts, text messages, etc etc, let alone any sort of
"anti "dance of the pope" software :)

Sorry about my ignorance, perhaps cyanogen does all that via google,
I've no idea really - anyway, it's a real issue if I go running about
making recommendations to people.

So my conclusion is "right now, we have no ready answers for Joe SixPack".

Am I wrong?

TIA,
Zenaan


----- Original Message -----
From: Don Whitaker
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 7:46 PM
Subject: Fwd:

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 7:21 AM, David & Rosemarie wrote:

M:URGENT: Tell all contacts from your list not to accept a video called
the dance of the Pope. It is a virus that formats your mobile. Beware it
is very dangerous. They announced it today on the radio. Pass  on to as
many as you can. It was announced on the radio in USA.




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Apr 10 14:48:58 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:48:58 +0100
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <55283607.5020802@confidantmail.org>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
 <3B7859B1-B363-49F2-8F3C-26BFB094FA64@cathalgarvey.me>
 <55283607.5020802@confidantmail.org>
Message-ID: <555D8A88-AB0B-4925-838D-4FE24E188F8B@cathalgarvey.me>

Ah apologies, I thought you meant it only obfuscated "internal" metadata, ie headers.

On 10 April 2015 21:43:51 GMT+01:00, Mike Ingle <mike at confidantmail.org> wrote:
>My software goes through Tor hidden services (or exit node if
>necessary) 
>and sets up a TLS session inside that.
>The From address of the mail only exists inside the encrypted envelope,
>
>which only the recipient can open.
>If someone had a global view of the Tor nodes, they might be able to 
>track a particular message via timing, but going through Tor prevents 
>mass surveillance by a passive observer.
>
>Mike
>
>On 4/10/2015 12:28 PM, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
>> Metadata includes who speaks to who, which can only be hidden by 
>> obfuscation in a mixnet, public-message-boards that recipients pull 
>> randomly or fully from, or similar ways of removing means of 
>> connecting endpoints.
>>
>> On 10 April 2015 20:08:04 GMT+01:00, Mike Ingle 
>> <mike at confidantmail.org> wrote:
>>
>>     How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant
>Mail 
>>     qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in
>transit.
>>
>>     On 4/10/2015 6:44 AM, hellekin wrote:
>>
>>         On 04/10/2015 03:59 AM, Seth wrote:
>>
>>            
>https://github.com/sweis/crypto-might-not-suck/blob/master/README.md
>>
>>
>>         *** When EFF launched the Secure Messaging Scoreboard, lynX
>>         and I were a bit pissed that they even mentioned proprietary
>>         solutions, so we made an alternate list:
>>        
>http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
>>         == hk 
>>
>>
>>         
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Apr 10 18:31:17 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 03:31:17 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org>
Message-ID: <109903851.C4F1huL1SL@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 10 kwietnia 2015 12:08:04 Mike Ingle pisze:
> How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant Mail
> qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in transit.

Also, Tox seems in order, too.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 22:53:45 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 05:53:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Joe SixPack - How to respond to Idiocracy? - was Fwd: WARNING:
 Mobile Phone Virus.
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSQUptqs9iv35c7hgtkxTvfvPGQWFp_aNLC+sOd6zn_Mhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSQUptqs9iv35c7hgtkxTvfvPGQWFp_aNLC+sOd6zn_Mhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1816344740.905973.1428731626037.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Why did they have to name it "cyanogen", an extremely toxic gas.      Jim Bell 


     On Friday, April 10, 2015 4:45 AM, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
   

 So I got the email below in my inbox. From a well meaning person but
to me personally it's just spam - the well-paved road to hell of
course.

So then I thinks "what might be useful to the other recipients of this
well-meaning email sender?"

And I almost hit reply-all to whip up something which might actually
be useful to folks.

But "install CyanogenMod" is probably, may be, just slightly tiny bit
too technical for most people. They'd have to figure out how to sync/
backup their contacts, text messages, etc etc, let alone any sort of
"anti "dance of the pope" software :)

Sorry about my ignorance, perhaps cyanogen does all that via google,
I've no idea really - anyway, it's a real issue if I go running about
making recommendations to people.

So my conclusion is "right now, we have no ready answers for Joe SixPack".

Am I wrong?

TIA,
Zenaan


----- Original Message -----
From: Don Whitaker
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 7:46 PM
Subject: Fwd:

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 7:21 AM, David & Rosemarie wrote:

M:URGENT: Tell all contacts from your list not to accept a video called
the dance of the Pope. It is a virus that formats your mobile. Beware it
is very dangerous. They announced it today on the radio. Pass  on to as
many as you can. It was announced on the radio in USA.


  
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From zen at freedbms.net  Fri Apr 10 14:54:19 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 07:54:19 +1000
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-y5Zzg5gZd16=QWAudAhDnyc7KhPzLp1Ts0FDWq7sRTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <20150410141350.GG7166@ctrlc.hu>
 <CAD2Ti2-y5Zzg5gZd16=QWAudAhDnyc7KhPzLp1Ts0FDWq7sRTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSdTcGS7R8oOmZwRsqeE-T+Gi=-g0cBkVfVEBAD6CdH3g@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/11/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, stef <s at ctrlc.hu> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:44:02AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
>>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
>
>> grarpamp, what you say about goldbug in there? :)
>
> Serious reservations about goldbug ethics, thus goldbug itself.
> Do own research, start search: cypherpunks goldbug

Now that's an understatement :)

grarpamp, you did such good work exposing that bullshit, a link to the
last thread is definitely in order:
https://www.mail-archive.com/cypherpunks at cpunks.org/msg05277.html

My favourite new term from that thread is rysiek's "bullshit bingo".

Ordinarily I'd have serious concerns about anyone who slaps together a
list without any checking, but this appears to be an FSF wiki page. So
I've been an FSF member for years, and can log in at FSF proper, but
cannot log in on the wiki page. I've emailed FSF to find out what's
going on here... they definitely need a column for "important links"
and some other disclaimer(s) like "this page is updated by volunteers,
FSF takes NO responsibility for the veracity, validity or verily any
verifying verbatim about any virulent item below"; or something.

Cheers
Zenaan




From s at ctrlc.hu  Sat Apr 11 02:39:42 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:39:42 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <109903851.C4F1huL1SL@lapuntu>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <55281F94.7060105@confidantmail.org> <109903851.C4F1huL1SL@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <20150411093942.GA6888@ctrlc.hu>

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 03:31:17AM +0200, rysiek wrote:
> Dnia piątek, 10 kwietnia 2015 12:08:04 Mike Ingle pisze:
> > How does one go about getting on this list? I think Confidant Mail
> > qualifies. It uses GPG end to end, and encrypts the metadata in transit.
> 
> Also, Tox seems in order, too.

are these claims verified?

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From coderman at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 11:42:18 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 11:42:18 -0700
Subject: Covert wireless (was: A crowdfunding campaign to build a free
 baseband)
In-Reply-To: <N1B-BufQc4mn7q@Safe-mail.net>
References: <N1B-BufQc4mn7q@Safe-mail.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QE95h3j4dL_x-Tpsqh6oZz4qSAMu0HdZuec_6-3gw2Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/15, wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net <wirelesswarrior at safe-mail.net> wrote:
> ...
> Mainly price and frequency coverage. Since my interest is mainly on apps
> that require transmitting I did not focus on receviers. Starting at twice
> the HackRF's cost the USRPs are a best buy at the low end.
> ...
> The HackRF's weakness main weakness is its 8-bit ADC and lack of
> pre-selector to limit strong out-of-band input signals and reduce
> out-of-band transmiter spurs.

i like the USRP(n series), Pervices (noctar/crimson), BladeRF. you're
right about price. cost quickly becomes significant!

antennas and front-ends can help a modest radio be better, and here
too a dearth of good DIY information...

and sadly, power consumption is going to come home to roost before
these go mobile. might have to wait for direction conversion circuits
before SDR can be tiny, portable, efficient?  i am sadly short of
solutions, only full of more questions and complaints :)




From hellekin at dyne.org  Sat Apr 11 08:33:26 2015
From: hellekin at dyne.org (hellekin)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:33:26 -0300
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-y5Zzg5gZd16=QWAudAhDnyc7KhPzLp1Ts0FDWq7sRTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <5527D3A2.3030400@dyne.org>
 <20150410141350.GG7166@ctrlc.hu>
 <CAD2Ti2-y5Zzg5gZd16=QWAudAhDnyc7KhPzLp1Ts0FDWq7sRTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55293EC6.5090508@dyne.org>

On 04/10/2015 04:41 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM, stef <s at ctrlc.hu> wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 10:44:02AM -0300, hellekin wrote:
>>> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard
> 
>> grarpamp, what you say about goldbug in there? :)
> 
> Serious reservations about goldbug ethics, thus goldbug itself.
> Do own research, start search: cypherpunks goldbug
> 

I updated the page to reflect your position.

http://libreplanet.org/wiki/GNU/consensus/Secure_Messaging_Scoreboard#Demoted

As Zenaan suggested it, let me add that LibrePlanet is a public wiki and
thus does not reflect the opinions of the FSF but rather of the people
editing it.  That can be you :)

Thank you for the review.

==
hk

-- 
 _ _     We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Apr 11 03:40:04 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 12:40:04 +0200
Subject: Crypto Projects that Might not Suck
In-Reply-To: <20150411093942.GA6888@ctrlc.hu>
References: <op.xwu61fzubgbjo9@work-pc.lan> <109903851.C4F1huL1SL@lapuntu>
 <20150411093942.GA6888@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <2563111.UVekq5q1fe@lapuntu>

Dnia sobota, 11 kwietnia 2015 11:39:42 piszesz:
> > Also, Tox seems in order, too.
> 
> are these claims verified?

By briefly looking at the code and not finding any obvious WTFs. Sadly, that's 
a lot more than most crypto snakeoil stuff can offer these days...

Obviously it would be great to have a proper audit of Tox's code, and to have 
the protocol properly defined, but as far as seven rules of snakoil are 
concerned:

 - it is free software
 - doesn't run in the browser
 - the user generates and exclusively owns the private encryption key
 - does not use marketing-terminology like "cyber", "military-grade"

While the threat model isn't explicitly defined, I think it is pretty clear -- 
threat being eavesdropping on communication *in transit*; it does not provide 
anonymity, nor does it promise to do so. It implements forward secrecy, and by 
default does not save conversation logs.

Now:
 - there are experimental versions for Android and Jolla (and possibly other
   smartphones); but hey, there are GnuPG and OTR clients for those platforms
   too;
 - one might say that it neglects general sad state of host security pretty
   much in the same way as OTR or GnuPG do.

So, for a list of crypto projects that *MIGHT* not suck, I think it's worth a 
look and/or mention.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Sat Apr 11 14:51:23 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:51:23 -0700
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
 <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>

On April 11, 2015 1:18:35 PM Yush Bhardwaj <yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Text Secure is way better
*snip*

Quoting Cathal from a post earlier today:

>> TextSecure no longer supports SMS and the data channel requires installing 
>> bundles from Google, an NSA asset. Use SMSSecure, an SMS-only fork of 
>> TextSecure, also on FDroid store now whereas TextSecure was pulled from 
>> FDroid by the devs to maintain their Google-only distribution system.<<

-S





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sat Apr 11 11:05:41 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 20:05:41 +0200
Subject: Briar
Message-ID: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>

Hi all,

anybody has any info on Briar?
https://briarproject.org/

Just came across it.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 12:31:05 2015
From: yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com (Yush Bhardwaj)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:01:05 +0530
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>

Text Secure is way better

Its Features:->
Group chat support, share media and attachments
Advanced end-to-end encryption protocol applied for every message
Fast message delivery

Check out its paper here <https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/904.pdf>







*Yush Bhardwaj*


On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 11:35 PM, rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> anybody has any info on Briar?
> https://briarproject.org/
>
> Just came across it.
>
> --
> Pozdrawiam,
> Michał "rysiek" Woźniak
>
> Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
> GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Apr 12 08:08:53 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 08:08:53 -0700
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <552A8A85.9050701@riseup.net>



On 04/11/2015 11:05 AM, rysiek wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> anybody has any info on Briar?
> https://briarproject.org/
>
> Just came across it.
>

Made me look.

Earlier, perhaps related, the admin @sourceforge
http://sourceforge.net/u/akwizgran/profile/ had another project going
with some activity http://sourceforge.net/p/adtn/mailman/adtn-devel/

Twenty five postings to that mail list. None on the Briar list yet. The
email addresses of the people involved in the previous project are
'uncloaked'. Might want to contact some of them because that project and
the current ideation seem related.



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From und3rt4k3r at riseup.net  Sun Apr 12 03:42:34 2015
From: und3rt4k3r at riseup.net (Th3 Und3rt4k3r)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:42:34 +0000
Subject: Gag law in Spain
Message-ID: <8B037FCA-54D7-43BB-90DC-16A2D9DA83EC@riseup.net>

After approval of new gag law, protesters made an holographic demostration in front of Spain's Parliament, physical protests are now forbidden.

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/holographic-images-representing-a-protest-are-projected-in-news-photo/469209120
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From ygwald at brandeis.edu  Sun Apr 12 08:41:45 2015
From: ygwald at brandeis.edu (Y G)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:41:45 -0400
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
 <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <mge3np$aem$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 04/11/2015 05:51 PM, Shelley wrote:
> On April 11, 2015 1:18:35 PM Yush Bhardwaj
> <yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Text Secure is way better
> *snip*
> 
> Quoting Cathal from a post earlier today:
> 
>>> TextSecure no longer supports SMS and the data channel requires
>>> installing bundles from Google, an NSA asset. Use SMSSecure, an
>>> SMS-only fork of TextSecure, also on FDroid store now whereas
>>> TextSecure was pulled from FDroid by the devs to maintain their
>>> Google-only distribution system.<<
> 
> -S
> 
Also, isn't Briar aiming for Mesh Networking? Which is a whole nother
area than what TextSecure is aimed at.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Sun Apr 12 12:29:40 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:29:40 -0700
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <20150412160503.GD27503@nestor.local>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu> <552A8A85.9050701@riseup.net>
 <20150412160503.GD27503@nestor.local>
Message-ID: <552AC7A4.5050901@riseup.net>



On 04/12/2015 09:05 AM, Meredith L. Patterson wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 08:08:53AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> Twenty five postings to that mail list. None on the Briar list yet.
> Huh? http://sourceforge.net/p/briar/mailman/briar-devel/ has been
> active since 2011.
>
> The protocol is part of Michael Rogers' PhD thesis, which you can read
> at http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1322992/1/1322992.pdf. I'm not sure what
> happened to the spec docs that used to be on
> https://briarproject.org/; I'm not seeing them in
> https://code.briarproject.org/akwizgran/briar.git either.
>
> Cheers,
> --mlp
>
My bad... was looking @ -announce

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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Sun Apr 12 06:36:14 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:36:14 +0100
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <552A6F18.2070003@cs.helsinki.fi>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
 <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
 <552A6F18.2070003@cs.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <C1135DC3-38DF-4782-95C8-724D95FC30F5@cathalgarvey.me>

Acknowledged, yet TS as currently built requires NSA/Google binaries installed with root access and passes all data traffic through NSA/Google directly anyway. Even if one end uses Tor and we assume the binaries are totally beneficent, traffic analysis combined with social network data will rapidly determine who's who unless everyone's being so cautious they're likely to not carry a phone in any case.

Given this, I'd choose the option that doesn't require NSA binaries on my device and potentially passes data through a "dumb pipe" outside NSA's jurisdiction and budget. It costs them a lot more to tap Irish SMS networks than to simply receive, through Google, your messages directly, so at least I'm costing them more. ;)

On 12 April 2015 14:11:52 GMT+01:00, Markus Ottela <oottela at cs.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>NSA gets massive amounts of text messages through it's Dishfire
>program.
>Users should not assume they're excluded just because the program had
>limited scope of 200,000,000 SMS per day -- four years ago.
>
>The content is unavailable in both data channels, yet you get better
>protection against metadata analysis by routing TextSecure traffic
>through Tor.
>
>
>
>On 12.04.2015 00:51, Shelley wrote:
>> On April 11, 2015 1:18:35 PM Yush Bhardwaj <yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Text Secure is way better
>> *snip*
>> 
>> Quoting Cathal from a post earlier today:
>> 
>>>> TextSecure no longer supports SMS and the data channel requires
>>>> installing bundles from Google, an NSA asset. Use SMSSecure, an
>>>> SMS-only fork of TextSecure, also on FDroid store now whereas
>>>> TextSecure was pulled from FDroid by the devs to maintain their
>>>> Google-only distribution system.<<
>> 
>> -S
>> 
>> 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From oottela at cs.helsinki.fi  Sun Apr 12 06:11:52 2015
From: oottela at cs.helsinki.fi (Markus Ottela)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 16:11:52 +0300
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu>
 <CAPkBPbAd+xN++ZJNsPmSDpNQ4ktctei1EG=yy=u4B8Lj3sMCrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <14caa773790.276e.4d489027c0c4d0c1b1ca03a1f48f1ffb@misanthropia.org>
Message-ID: <552A6F18.2070003@cs.helsinki.fi>

NSA gets massive amounts of text messages through it's Dishfire program.
Users should not assume they're excluded just because the program had
limited scope of 200,000,000 SMS per day -- four years ago.

The content is unavailable in both data channels, yet you get better
protection against metadata analysis by routing TextSecure traffic
through Tor.



On 12.04.2015 00:51, Shelley wrote:
> On April 11, 2015 1:18:35 PM Yush Bhardwaj <yushbhardwaj91 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Text Secure is way better
> *snip*
> 
> Quoting Cathal from a post earlier today:
> 
>>> TextSecure no longer supports SMS and the data channel requires
>>> installing bundles from Google, an NSA asset. Use SMSSecure, an
>>> SMS-only fork of TextSecure, also on FDroid store now whereas
>>> TextSecure was pulled from FDroid by the devs to maintain their
>>> Google-only distribution system.<<
> 
> -S
> 
> 




From zen at freedbms.net  Sun Apr 12 14:05:46 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:05:46 +1000
Subject: Briar
In-Reply-To: <20150412160503.GD27503@nestor.local>
References: <2509253.5j6WuSbk5H@lapuntu> <552A8A85.9050701@riseup.net>
 <20150412160503.GD27503@nestor.local>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSSZ5qi9kWaSQFtEC6YuF4QSJXdMVMxQjP239WL9uUb=ig@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/13/15, Meredith L. Patterson <mlp at upstandinghackers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 08:08:53AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> Twenty five postings to that mail list. None on the Briar list yet.
>
> Huh? http://sourceforge.net/p/briar/mailman/briar-devel/ has been
> active since 2011.
>
> The protocol is part of Michael Rogers' PhD thesis, which you can read
> at http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1322992/1/1322992.pdf. I'm not sure what
> happened to the spec docs that used to be on
> https://briarproject.org/; I'm not seeing them in
> https://code.briarproject.org/akwizgran/briar.git either.

With a spec doc which is the primary/ foundation document for a
project, I wonder why it's -not- the first thing checked into that
project's (git) repo.




From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Apr 13 05:54:14 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:54:14 +0300
Subject: Linux 4.0 released: from Linus "we're all sheep" Torvalds
Message-ID: <20150413125414.GA2492@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Linux 4.0 released: from Linus "we're all sheep" Torvalds

https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/4/12/178
Subject: Linux 4.0 released

signature:
> Linus "we're all sheep" Torvalds

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Linux_kernel_names&oldid=656236946
4.0 	Hurr durr I'ma sheep[58] (Internet poll)

I hope this is sarchasm I don't get




From list at sysfu.com  Mon Apr 13 17:55:56 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 17:55:56 -0700
Subject: Engineers vs Thugs... Building Institutions, Cpunks and Cohesion
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-7FxxcW7y+FhY82ovZs7knwaAyWkEHiLrm_o4spznAJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti2-7FxxcW7y+FhY82ovZs7knwaAyWkEHiLrm_o4spznAJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.xw14vinsbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 15:29:13 -0700, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KybZAEm0stY

Important to keep in mind and reminds of this video:  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLhww65TkKw

Check out the solar powered boat he built in April 7th vid




From l at odewijk.nl  Mon Apr 13 07:13:30 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:13:30 +0900
Subject: Linux 4.0 released: from Linus "we're all sheep" Torvalds
In-Reply-To: <20150413125414.GA2492@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150413125414.GA2492@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2r+JNDuo6fdF73Ow=5HJ+MuvCJvZjV=o5ahApdbSGQ3xLA@mail.gmail.com>

This, my friend, is either a fun demonstration of tragedy of the commons,
or, depending on your opinion, an excellent way to come up with agreeable
release codenames.

I'm not entirely sure on why the mayor version should be bumped. But then,
versions are only there to increase. The logic has always been pretty
arbitrary.

Although; we're all sheep sounds like "so, this is when we insert the
secret government loophole". It still might, ofc ;)
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From eugen at leitl.org  Tue Apr 14 06:33:28 2015
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:33:28 +0200
Subject: lowRISC tagged memory preview release
Message-ID: <20150414133328.GS10743@leitl.org>


http://www.lowrisc.org/blog/2015/04/lowrisc-tagged-memory-preview-release/

lowRISC tagged memory preview release

Monday, April 13, 2015

We’re pleased to announce the first lowRISC preview release,
demonstrating support for tagged memory as described in our memo. Our
ambition with lowRISC is to provide an open-source System-on-Chip platform
for others to build on, along with low-cost development boards featuring a
reference implementation. Although there’s more work to be done on the
tagged memory implementation, now seemed a good time to document what
we’ve done in order for the wider community to take a look. Please see
our full tutorial which describes in some detail the changes we’ve made
to the Berkeley Rocket core, as well as how you can build and try it out for
yourself (either in simulation, or on an FPGA). We’ve gone to some effort
to produce this documentation, both to document our work, and to share our
experiences building upon the Berkeley RISC-V code releases in the hopes
they’ll be useful to other groups.

The initial motivation for tagged memory was to prevent control-flow
hijacking attacks, though there are a range of other potential uses including
fine-grained memory synchronisation, garbage collection, and debug tools.

Please note that the instructions used to manipulate tagged memory in this
release (ltag and stag) are only temporary and chosen simply because they
require minimal changes to the core pipeline. Future work will include
exploring better ISA support, collecting performance numbers across a range
of tagged memory uses and tuning the tag cache. We are also working on
developing an ‘untethered’ version of the SoC with the necessary
peripherals integrated for standalone operation.

If you’ve visited lowrisc.org before, you’ll have noticed we’ve
changed a few things around. Keep an eye on this blog (and its RSS feed) to
keep an eye on developments - we expect to be updating at least every couple
of weeks. We’re very grateful to the RISC-V team at Berkeley for all
their support and guidance. A large portion of the credit for this initial
code release goes to Wei Song, who’s been working tirelessly on the HDL
implementation.




From bizdevcon at icloud.com  Tue Apr 14 08:35:20 2015
From: bizdevcon at icloud.com (L0R3NZ 5Z4B0)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:35:20 +0200
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <20150414145336.GA2550@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150414145336.GA2550@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>

Which shows the "sophistication" (or lack of) of this fraud operation and makes me wonder why the penmens at TheReg would even publish this tidbit: $300 ransom targeting a police department?

Yeah.

– BizDevCon

> On 14 Apr 2015, at 16:53, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/13/us_police_ransomware/
> Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office hostage
> drama
> 
>> After trying to restore the encrypted files for a couple of days, the
>> police in Maine decided to pay the $300 ransom in Bitcoins.




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Apr 14 07:53:36 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:53:36 +0300
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
Message-ID: <20150414145336.GA2550@sivokote.iziade.m$>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/13/us_police_ransomware/
Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office hostage
drama

> After trying to restore the encrypted files for a couple of days, the
> police in Maine decided to pay the $300 ransom in Bitcoins.




From guninski at guninski.com  Tue Apr 14 10:18:53 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:18:53 +0300
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end
 office hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
References: <20150414145336.GA2550@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <20150414171853.GB2550@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 05:35:20PM +0200, L0R3NZ 5Z4B0 wrote:
> Which shows the "sophistication" (or lack of) of this fraud operation and makes me wonder why the penmens at TheReg would even publish this tidbit: $300 ransom targeting a police department?
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> – BizDevCon
>

Assuming it is true, the news is the cops assume the decrypted files
are the original.

Examples:

s/President of USA/grey dude in charge/

or just changing few IDs.




From blukami at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 01:18:11 2015
From: blukami at gmail.com (Edd thompson)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:18:11 -0400
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
Message-ID: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>

I am saving my pennies to build my pc that will be relatively secure and
private.
Raspberry pi b+
Cell shield add on for above
Prepaid sim (paid in cash)
Bluetooth stick
Wifi stick (looking for one with least security issues but they all seem to
be in bed with Al-Shaitain)
Lcd screen
Sdr transceiver

Punch the security holes that you see or possibly give me better
substitutes
Thanks for your time
TTFN
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From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Wed Apr 15 02:05:30 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:05:30 +0100
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>

The SOC in a raspi is probably no worse than the rest, but consider that the natural entropy available (for Crypto) to a SOC is much lower than a multi-component system like a laptop or tower. The Raspi 1.xx has an onboard entropy chip you can enable, if you trust it, and there'll be a new device in /dev you can read raw entropy from. Write that to /dev/random to seed the system pool and use /dev/urandom as your actual source.

Personally I'd draw from several sources to feed /dev/random: an internal hash-chain (quick Python script) (re)seeded on a password and urandom periodically, the hardware entropy generator, Ubuntu's seed server.. don't trust one source, mash them up once a minute/hour and feed them to /dev/random.

On 15 April 2015 09:18:11 GMT+01:00, Edd thompson <blukami at gmail.com> wrote:
>I am saving my pennies to build my pc that will be relatively secure
>and
>private.
>Raspberry pi b+
>Cell shield add on for above
>Prepaid sim (paid in cash)
>Bluetooth stick
>Wifi stick (looking for one with least security issues but they all
>seem to
>be in bed with Al-Shaitain)
>Lcd screen
>Sdr transceiver
>
>Punch the security holes that you see or possibly give me better
>substitutes
>Thanks for your time
>TTFN

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From jonas.hedman at fripost.org  Wed Apr 15 02:00:14 2015
From: jonas.hedman at fripost.org (jonas)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:00:14 +0200
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150415090014.GC4581@grond>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 04:18:11AM -0400, Edd thompson wrote:
> I am saving my pennies to build my pc that will be relatively secure and
> private.
> Raspberry pi b+
> Cell shield add on for above
> Prepaid sim (paid in cash)
> Bluetooth stick
> Wifi stick (looking for one with least security issues but they all seem to
> be in bed with Al-Shaitain)
> Lcd screen
> Sdr transceiver
> 
> Punch the security holes that you see or possibly give me better
> substitutes
> Thanks for your time
> TTFN

What is your threat model?
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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Wed Apr 15 11:03:26 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:03:26 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 04/15/2015 02:05 AM, Cathal (Phone) wrote:

> Personally I'd draw from several sources to feed /dev/random: an 
> internal hash-chain (quick Python script) (re)seeded on a password
> and urandom periodically, the hardware entropy generator, Ubuntu's
> seed server.. don't trust one source, mash them up once a
> minute/hour and feed them to /dev/random.

I've gotten some success with a USB enabled Geiger counter
(https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11345).  A little Python was used
to open the USB serial device and measure the amount of time that
passed in between characters being emitted, hash them, and cat the
hashes into /dev/random to give the kernel pool a little more to work
with.  The unit's pretty large (larger than the RasPi) and needs a
housing of some kind to really protect it.  I wouldn't use it for an
HSM but for experimenting at home it works decently well.  Now I just
need to get around to learning SciPy to profile the output of
/dev/urandom for biases...

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Good enough is the enemy of the best.

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From mirimir at riseup.net  Wed Apr 15 13:09:15 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:09:15 -0600
Subject: Whonix-like setup using Raspberry Pi 2
Message-ID: <552EC56B.3040808@riseup.net>

I've implemented physical isolation of networking (VPN plus Tor) and
workspace, using two Raspberry Pi 2 Model B v1.1 ARM-based
microcomputers.[0] Missing packages in Raspbian wheezy prevent building
Whonix on the Pi, and so I've replicated basic design features.

The gateway Pi connects to the Tor network through a VPN service, and
then reaches the Internet through Tor. Firewall rules allow outgoing
connections on WAN (eth0) only to the VPN servers, Raspbian wheezy
repository servers and NTP timeservers. No DNS servers are reachable via
WAN (eth0) and so all needed IPs are provided locally. Firewall rules
allow outgoing connections on the VPN tunnel interface (tun0) only by
the Tor client process. The Tor Browser and other apps on the workspace
Pi can reach the Internet only through the Tor client process on the
gateway Pi.

Both gateway and workspace employ full-disk encryption, using standard
Linux dm-crypt/LUKS plus LVM2. The LUKS volume on the gateway Pi can
only be unlocked via SSH (dropbear) from the workspace Pi. That protects
VPN credentials and any Tor hidden-service keys while the gateway Pi is
shutdown.

Next steps will include adding apps to the workspace, and hardening. I'm
looking at EMF shielding both networking Pi and workspace Pi, and
embedding the boards in Arctic Alumina.[1] The gateway Pi will have no
exposed USB or HDMI ports, just power and the two ethernet ports. And of
course, I'll test for leaks, both networking and EMF side-channel.[2]
Firmware flashing is another vulnerability that needs to be addressed.

I'd appreciate feedback, criticism and suggestions.

[0]
http://lwcl5doqq2uzjmom.onion/Raspian-wheezy-VPN-Tor-Gateway-Workspace-r0.html.
[1]
http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Alumina-Thermal-Adhesive-5g/dp/B0009IQ1BU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426546059
[2]
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/computer-stored-encryption-keys-are-not-safe-from-side-channel-attacks/




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Apr 15 21:16:47 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 21:16:47 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/15/15, The Doctor <drwho at virtadpt.net> wrote:
> ...
> I've gotten some success with a USB enabled Geiger counter
> (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11345).  A little Python was used
> to open the USB serial device and measure the amount of time that
> passed in between characters being emitted, hash them, and cat the
> hashes into /dev/random to give the kernel pool a little more to work
> with.  The unit's pretty large (larger than the RasPi) and needs a
> housing of some kind to really protect it.  I wouldn't use it for an
> HSM but for experimenting at home it works decently well.

the Pi has built-in camera capability; see the other threads about
LEDs into a CCD for stochastic measurement at high rates.

as amusing as ionizing radiation may be for entropy generation, there
are much more practical routes :P



> Now I just
> need to get around to learning SciPy to profile the output of
> /dev/urandom for biases...

DIHARDER over gigs will give you a great gist. is there a specific
type of (transient) bias you're after?




From drwho at virtadpt.net  Thu Apr 16 10:35:09 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 10:35:09 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>	<9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>	<552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>
 <CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <552FF2CD.3000708@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 04/15/2015 09:16 PM, coderman wrote:

> the Pi has built-in camera capability; see the other threads about 
> LEDs into a CCD for stochastic measurement at high rates.

I did.  This is an older project, from before the CCD measurement threads.

> as amusing as ionizing radiation may be for entropy generation,
> there are much more practical routes :P

Maybe.  It's been an instructive exercise, if nothing else.

> DIHARDER over gigs will give you a great gist. is there a specific 
> type of (transient) bias you're after?

I just want to see what might or might not be in there to satisfy my
curiosity (ala the visualizations in Michal Zalewski' _Strange
Attractors and TCP/IP Sequence Number Analysis*_).

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Only those who risk going too far find out how far they can go.

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From dan at geer.org  Thu Apr 16 14:24:50 2015
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:24:50 -0400
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:35:20 +0200."
 <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <20150416212450.6F97A2282B3@palinka.tinho.net>

 > Which shows the "sophistication" (or lack of) of this fraud
 > operation and makes me wonder why the penmens at TheReg would even
 > publish this tidbit: $300 ransom targeting a police department?

It's been shown more than once that total take in an online
extortion scheme is increased if the demanded price is modest.
Call it the Laffer Curve of cybercrime...

--dan




From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Apr 16 20:39:55 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 20:39:55 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <552FF2CD.3000708@virtadpt.net>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>
 <CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <552FF2CD.3000708@virtadpt.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1R0faHNYGQwcth+e8iU6xbW7YUpc9=XdakeHO49C9gBjg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/16/15, The Doctor <drwho at virtadpt.net> wrote:
> ...
> I did.  This is an older project, from before the CCD measurement threads.

it would be interesting to see what throughput you get with a CCD
implementation; i'm looking for a faster XSTORE :)



> I just want to see what might or might not be in there to satisfy my
> curiosity (ala the visualizations in Michal Zalewski' _Strange
> Attractors and TCP/IP Sequence Number Analysis*_).

a classic!  how about http://binvis.io/




From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 03:42:41 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 03:42:41 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1RFTvuOC14g6Us2SacArrsqCKHG7i=u4yuNhp=bvQcPag@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/15, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
>....  I think the Intel platform is too
> big to not be exploited (more or less) on the hardware level. I have a very
> little better feeling about AMD but I don't think it's based on much.
>
> The idea that ARM processors are much much smaller and therefore easier to
> audit makes them less attractive exploit targets. ...

essentially they're all suspect under some level of modest threat
(e.g. CUSTOMS interdiction or TAO enabling or ...)

so then you get to openRISC on an openFAB with strong chain of custody
along every step from sand to structure to send to self(and if you
lose proper custody of device that's your problem; see threat models
again :)

---

https://openrisc.github.io/
http://www.globalfoundries.com/ for openHW?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

---

oh, and of course the occasional FIB tear-down of fabricated cores to
confirm no surreptitious corruptions.  pick your favorite hard problem
:P


best regards,




From cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me  Fri Apr 17 00:15:32 2015
From: cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me (Cathal (Phone))
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:15:32 +0100
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC04AAAB-2D16-41B4-8D1A-A9F4CC899B9C@cathalgarvey.me>

A stand-out problem with trust in Broadcom SOCs like RasPi is the massive binary bootloader. If there's a sploit it need not be hardware based, because there's plenty of room in there for a whole hypervisor arrangement, methinks.

On 17 April 2015 08:02:47 GMT+01:00, "Lodewijk andré de la porte" <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
>2015-04-15 18:05 GMT+09:00 Cathal (Phone)
><cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>:
>
>> The SOC in a raspi is probably no worse than the rest,
>
>
>This is what I'm most concerned about! I think the Intel platform is
>too
>big to not be exploited (more or less) on the hardware level. I have a
>very
>little better feeling about AMD but I don't think it's based on much.
>
>The idea that ARM processors are much much smaller and therefore easier
>to
>audit makes them less attractive exploit targets. That, and that
>they've
>only recently come into use, are build by smaller companies, etc. When
>you
>build a SOC around it, well, that's kind of asking for trouble!
>
>The best avoidance method I've come up with so far is taking two units,
>(bitbanging) I2C (or whatever) over the IO pins to do "networking" from
>one
>to the other, connect one to the Internet and the other exclusively
>over
>those IO pins. That way, whatever exploit is present is VERY unlikely
>to be
>triggered. It's... still not 100% of course.. If the exploit is on the
>relevant IO pins, well, it just might be trigger-able by manipulating
>the
>network traffic. Maybe write high every so many bits just to meddle?
>It's
>closer then anything else, anyway.
>
>
>As for less paranoid exploits, you have to tell us the threat model!
>(the
>cell shield will very likely be remote exploitable, but only by the
>really
>bad goodies)

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Fri Apr 17 00:41:11 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 09:41:11 +0200
Subject: Globel Forum on Cyber Expertise
Message-ID: <15883582.nMgf9plvfi@lapuntu>

Hey,

I thought you guys might like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKzAdQ1Uc98

Remember to replace each occurence of "cyber" with "bullshit", otherwise it 
might not make any sense.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Apr 17 10:30:45 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:30:45 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R0faHNYGQwcth+e8iU6xbW7YUpc9=XdakeHO49C9gBjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>	<9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>	<552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>	<CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>	<552FF2CD.3000708@virtadpt.net>
 <CAJVRA1R0faHNYGQwcth+e8iU6xbW7YUpc9=XdakeHO49C9gBjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55314345.5050608@virtadpt.net>

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Hash: SHA512

On 04/16/2015 08:39 PM, coderman wrote:

> it would be interesting to see what throughput you get with a CCD 
> implementation; i'm looking for a faster XSTORE :)

I'll have to play around with that, then.

> a classic!  how about http://binvis.io/

Thanks for the link, I'll play around with it a little this weekend.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Television is reality, and reality is less than television." --Brian
O'Blivion

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Apr 17 10:30:45 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:30:45 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1R0faHNYGQwcth+e8iU6xbW7YUpc9=XdakeHO49C9gBjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>	<9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>	<552EA7EE.1090108@virtadpt.net>	<CAJVRA1TtY8Zeux8bXTQTVPaOU-0S7=ZW_r4-nEJZX5TENNpzVw@mail.gmail.com>	<552FF2CD.3000708@virtadpt.net>
 <CAJVRA1R0faHNYGQwcth+e8iU6xbW7YUpc9=XdakeHO49C9gBjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55314345.408@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On 04/16/2015 08:39 PM, coderman wrote:



I'll have to play around with that, then.



Thanks for the link, I'll play around with it a little this weekend.

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Television is reality, and reality is less than television." --Brian
O'Blivion

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From drwho at virtadpt.net  Fri Apr 17 10:32:40 2015
From: drwho at virtadpt.net (The Doctor)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 10:32:40 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553143B8.5030303@virtadpt.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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On 04/17/2015 12:02 AM, Lodewijk andré de la porte wrote:

>> The SOC in a raspi is probably no worse than the rest,
> This is what I'm most concerned about! I think the Intel platform
> is too

May I ask what your opinion of LowRISC is?

http://www.lowrisc.org/about/

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Television is reality, and reality is less than television." --Brian
O'Blivion

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From adi at hexapodia.org  Fri Apr 17 11:16:00 2015
From: adi at hexapodia.org (Andy Isaacson)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:16:00 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <20150417181600.GA12447@hexapodia.org>

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:05:30AM +0100, Cathal (Phone) wrote:
> The SOC in a raspi is probably no worse than the rest,

I contest this claim.  BRCM SoCs are probably not the *worst* SoCs in
the market (that distinction probably belongs to Mediatek or a chinese
vendor we've never heard of) but they are almost certainly not in the
first ranks.

Unfortunately I can't make a strong argument as to which SoCs are in the
first rank.  I'd give some of the TI chips a higher chance, but
brand-hunting is not the route to safety -- some of the TI chips are
almost certainly as bad or worse.

I am concerned about the following --

1. existing SoCs CPUs certainly have errata (known errors or
undocumented "features") that are not disclosed to the public, and never
fixed in patched chip releases.  Some of these are likely to cause
security issues.  Previous SoCs (circa 2008) have had undisclosed bugs
in instruction decode allowing privilege elevation, for example.  Even
Intel and AMD, who have a *much* larger team working on these systems
than places like Broadcom and Mediatek, still manage to ship security
bugs from time to time... I don't give BRCM much of a chance of shipping
bug-free silicon.

2. SoCs contain a multitude of "Intellectual Property Blocks" such as a
DRAM controller, an Ethernet controller, USB, SATA, AC97 Audio, etc.
These are all connected together by an interconnect bus.  Each block
comes from a different development group, often purchased from a
different company.  The company that sells you the SoC often doesn't
even know what the features and bugs of their purchased IP cores
*are*... and that undocumented ethernet core may well have a "feature"
that would allow arbitrary access to the interconnect.

3. SoC interconnects don't have much in the way of security.  When the
Ethernet controller bug lets a Evil Packet onto the interconnect, it's
probably just a hop skip and a jump to main memory.

-andy




From mrjones2020 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 05:20:53 2015
From: mrjones2020 at gmail.com (J.R. Jones)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 12:20:53 +0000
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1RFTvuOC14g6Us2SacArrsqCKHG7i=u4yuNhp=bvQcPag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1RFTvuOC14g6Us2SacArrsqCKHG7i=u4yuNhp=bvQcPag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDVf2LTk6TomrKPS9mjhHvtn2A6F77XCSXGTyNhxEc8w1-PGA@mail.gmail.com>

 On Fri, Apr 17, 2015, 6:58 AM coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/17/15, Lodewijk andré de la porte <l at odewijk.nl> wrote:
>....  I think the Intel platform is too
> big to not be exploited (more or less) on the hardware level. I have a
very
> little better feeling about AMD but I don't think it's based on much.
>
> The idea that ARM processors are much much smaller and therefore easier to
> audit makes them less attractive exploit targets. ...

essentially they're all suspect under some level of modest threat
(e.g. CUSTOMS interdiction or TAO enabling or ...)

so then you get to openRISC on an openFAB with strong chain of custody
along every step from sand to structure to send to self(and if you
lose proper custody of device that's your problem; see threat models
again :)

---

https://openrisc.github.io/
http://www.globalfoundries.com/ for openHW?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_of_custody

---

oh, and of course the occasional FIB tear-down of fabricated cores to
confirm no surreptitious corruptions.  pick your favorite hard problem
:P

best regards,



So what you guys are saying is... When I go Incognito Mode in Chrome, that
little spy guy isn't really protecting me from everyone spying?
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From blukami at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 10:06:11 2015
From: blukami at gmail.com (Edd thompson)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 13:06:11 -0400
Subject: Rasp pi security
Message-ID: <CAFqg5u1xrjo0q9TrNjhjxR0OUDC99E1OcPrTwv3ti=F4XFg-Bg@mail.gmail.com>

Just want a highly mobile, easily connected (ie cellular) netbook. Not
super worried about security but not easily exploitable by a script kiddie.
Which I know that is about my coding level.
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From l at odewijk.nl  Fri Apr 17 00:02:47 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:02:47 +0900
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rKFMGLoi-kUyGTt4h0ziLuL_3DTsnC=CqQ15DiJ5B92kw@mail.gmail.com>

2015-04-15 18:05 GMT+09:00 Cathal (Phone) <cathalgarvey at cathalgarvey.me>:

> The SOC in a raspi is probably no worse than the rest,


This is what I'm most concerned about! I think the Intel platform is too
big to not be exploited (more or less) on the hardware level. I have a very
little better feeling about AMD but I don't think it's based on much.

The idea that ARM processors are much much smaller and therefore easier to
audit makes them less attractive exploit targets. That, and that they've
only recently come into use, are build by smaller companies, etc. When you
build a SOC around it, well, that's kind of asking for trouble!

The best avoidance method I've come up with so far is taking two units,
(bitbanging) I2C (or whatever) over the IO pins to do "networking" from one
to the other, connect one to the Internet and the other exclusively over
those IO pins. That way, whatever exploit is present is VERY unlikely to be
triggered. It's... still not 100% of course.. If the exploit is on the
relevant IO pins, well, it just might be trigger-able by manipulating the
network traffic. Maybe write high every so many bits just to meddle? It's
closer then anything else, anyway.


As for less paranoid exploits, you have to tell us the threat model! (the
cell shield will very likely be remote exploitable, but only by the really
bad goodies)
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From coderman at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 16:46:19 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:46:19 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <20150417181600.GA12447@hexapodia.org>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150417181600.GA12447@hexapodia.org>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SUh2CTrkUjx0Tn_nfb93mJn=hcLB7AzyfSLrddUO4mTw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/15, Andy Isaacson <adi at hexapodia.org> wrote:
> ...
> 1. existing SoCs CPUs certainly have errata ...
> 2. SoCs contain a multitude of "Intellectual Property Blocks" ...
> 3. SoC interconnects don't have much in the way of security. ...
 [ more reasons to isolate SoCs ]


for a not designed to fail bus between SoCs,

an SPI based protobuf langsec barier'd link between distinct role
oriented isolated SoCs would be very useful. the ways to isolate
memory and address spaces is cumbersome in all cases for these
platforms, so far. and multi-path / multi-home for these links allows
as much capacity as you have physical support for.

anything bus based or complex like wireless or wired local area
networking are pwnholes, and to be avoided...

USB condom mode should not be after market; but a core built-in. these
are all well known arguments, and i am preaching to the choir :)

[ TrustZone, virtualization extensions for ARM, memory read and write
once protections, etc. if you trust these, then direct PCIe 4lane
interconnect is best, maybe. ]




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 15:28:44 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:28:44 -0400
Subject: German Soil, Thus Germany Itself, Approves Murder
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29xBY-BELpzJ7qkvviuFd9sULbdZk0VkNe+3Gmc1hZX1g@mail.gmail.com>

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/17/ramstein/


"The killing ... constitute[s]... being an accessory in an abuse
of international law." -- Thilo Marauhn

"It is quite simple: without Germany, U.S. drones would not fly."
The government should "admit its responsibility for civilian deaths
caused by U.S. drone warfare." -- Ali Jaber, et al

"The German government doesn't ask tough questions because they
obviously don't want to know what really happens." -- Wolfgang Kaleck

"It is simply murder." -- Bjorn Schiffbauer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgAoUEbJLVk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtubfJmGZs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFApyyJOICo




From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Apr 17 17:56:50 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:56:50 -0400
Subject: Memex Oil Gush
In-Reply-To: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
References: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1YjH32-0001u8-Ix@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Simple: how to provide security and privacy just by claiming to do so,
packaging attractive, easy to use programs, heavily promoted, say,
like HTTPS and crypto.

This is what Obama said the government intends to do and invited
corps and edus and experts to just that, oiled with a gush of It Tastes
Like Real Butter.

Easy-Grease DARPA has buttered Tor and others to gush spy the web
while shouting about privacy protection just like Google, Microsoft, IBM,
universities, security experts, cryptographers, freedom of information
hustlers, ACLU, the usual fossil fuel dispensers.

At 08:01 PM 4/17/2015, you wrote:


>How is this bullshit translated into plain english?
>
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/17/darpa-nasa-and-partners-show-off-memex/





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 17:01:42 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:01:42 -0300
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>



How is this bullshit translated into plain english? 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/17/darpa-nasa-and-partners-show-off-memex/







From jason.mcvetta at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 02:09:41 2015
From: jason.mcvetta at gmail.com (Jason McVetta)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 02:09:41 -0700
Subject: 
In-Reply-To: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
References: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9H=iLrvGKtKOE1W9itAw58zbHHTCtr8xGKCd7ek5QtiUnexg@mail.gmail.com>

On Apr 17, 2015 5:12 PM, "Juan" <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> How is this bullshit translated into plain english?

"Lotsa 'civilian' companies been developin' social control tech for das
gubmint."
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From oottela at cs.helsinki.fi  Fri Apr 17 18:22:32 2015
From: oottela at cs.helsinki.fi (Markus Ottela)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:22:32 +0300
Subject: One Laptop Per Terrorist
In-Reply-To: <551a0a4a.f72b8c0a.4021.28ae@mx.google.com>
References: <5510f31f.52668c0a.388b.ffffc478@mx.google.com>
 <CAD2Ti28Pg8BUh=J_zSeE9JgKibo18U-NusvdLdinFc-QyRKbog@mail.gmail.com>
 <551119e1.8d35370a.6656.ffffd086@mx.google.com>
 <CAHWD2rJNK-Ve4scG08opxowss3sK5+N07G-2wqDP2sMY3wetbQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJVRA1SkH9mQWtXAzY=MD5cayruFZ4xg8fbL-6QNVq_whstMkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMyHXXcWc0_1OksrTDuBn7Eg_YLhD-5ECqppOTUcXTPPzfqrxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALqxMTGkYhJ7qO0zWFR=b2y=9rspoSukFaKR30Bc4xSskYRUiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <5515fce0.c7ee8c0a.4c0b.ffffeae2@mx.google.com>
 <55172F30.7020308@cs.helsinki.fi> <551a0a4a.f72b8c0a.4021.28ae@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5531B1D8.1070304@cs.helsinki.fi>

Now that I think of it, SW implementations with the CEV version that
cascades symmetric ciphers are very very slow if SoCs such as RPi are
used. OTP and one time MAC is naturally very fast but I'm not sure how
large key storages can be added for micro controllers: users should
probably use OTF-encrypted HDDs to protect key data and avoid wear
levelling issues of flash memory.

Anyway, I pushed out 0.5.4. of TFC out yesterday. Lot's of fixes for
stability and usability, signed installer that checks SHA512 hashes of
other files. Probably the most important feature is hiding 'when' and
'how much' communication takes place. This is done by sending a constant
stream of noise messages and commands from the transmitter unit the
receivers transparently discard. This exhausts OTP keyfiles very quickly
so I'd recommend using the CEV version.

-maqp


On 31.03.2015 05:49, Juan wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 00:46:08 +0200
> Markus Ottela <oottela at cs.helsinki.fi> wrote:
> 
>> A microcontroller as TCB doing OTP with HWRNG-generated keys. Sounds a
>> lot like the OTP-version of Tinfoil Chat ( github.com/maqp/tfc ). 
> 
> 
> 	Splitting the application in two rx/tx physically isolated
> 	devices is clever...Although using two laptops or two
> 	raspberries seems a bit overkill?
> 
> 
> 	Now I'm wondering how easy it would be to hack a
> 	microcontroller through its serial link. Of course "a
> 	microcontroller" is horribly vague. For instance, what about a
> 	microcontroller that can't execute code from ram? 
> 
> 
> 
> J.
> 
> 
> 
> 




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 15:06:39 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 15:06:39 -0700
Subject: Memex Oil Gush
In-Reply-To: <E1YjH32-0001u8-Ix@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
 <E1YjH32-0001u8-Ix@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SRpJmQiegg9Q8=zODycFt+V74pOKkZtZzg5xkC_YTJNw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/15, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> ... Easy-Grease DARPA has buttered Tor.,.

mmm, delicious tasty shallots are tasty for everybody, John!

(see also, privacy floats all boats)


in seven degrees of kevin bacon funding, we're all abhorrent...




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 15:32:15 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 15:32:15 -0700
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <20150419161023.GA2514@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
 <20150416212450.6F97A2282B3@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150419161023.GA2514@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/19/15, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:
> ...
> I suspect cleaning the mess will be much more expensive
> than $300. This appears non-trivial in times of crisis
> like this and recent shutdowns.

Josh Gates & crew at Chernobyl were encouraged to take a special
liquid antidote as an additional precaution,

 "Thyroshield. Thyroid blocking in a radiation emergency only. Blueberry flavor.
Blueberry flavor? Who gives a **** what the flavor is? If the atom
bomb has just dropped, you don't care what the flavor is. It could be
any flavor. It could say, 'Feces flavor', and if there was a radiation
emergency, you'd be like, 'I WILL DRINK THIS.'"
 - Joshua Gates - Destination Truth : Ghosts of Chernobyl


in terms of pen-test through self evidence, a part BTC fee perfectly
logical resolution :P




From mirimir at riseup.net  Sun Apr 19 14:44:57 2015
From: mirimir at riseup.net (Mirimir)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 15:44:57 -0600
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <553421D9.4060505@riseup.net>

On 04/19/2015 10:58 AM, dans at openmailbox.org wrote:
> Hi everybody.
> 
> Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a
> microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking
> is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and improved.
> 
> Of course there'll be an app for the parents to later listen the chats
> of their kids with Barbie.
> 
> I think is not necessary to point out the implications of the subject

But how worse is that than the Internet panopticon generally? It does
add audio, and (soon, I'm sure) video. But just about everything will
end up online sooner or later.

Anyway, filtering and anonymizing would be trivial, using voice
recognition apps and your anonymity network(s) of choice.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 11:45:14 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 15:45:14 -0300
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <5533f6c0.551a370a.0f16.2b28@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:58:42 +0200
dans at openmailbox.org wrote:

> Hi everybody.
> 
> Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a 
> microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the
> talking is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written
> and improved.


	For half a second I thought it was pardoy coming from the
	onion...



> 
> Of course there'll be an app for the parents to later listen the
> chats of their kids with Barbie.
> 
> I think is not necessary to point out the implications of the subject




From dans at openmailbox.org  Sun Apr 19 09:58:42 2015
From: dans at openmailbox.org (dans at openmailbox.org)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:58:42 +0200
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
Message-ID: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>

Hi everybody.

Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a 
microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking 
is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and 
improved.

Of course there'll be an app for the parents to later listen the chats 
of their kids with Barbie.

I think is not necessary to point out the implications of the subject




From guninski at guninski.com  Sun Apr 19 09:10:23 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:10:23 +0300
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end
 office hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <20150416212450.6F97A2282B3@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
 <20150416212450.6F97A2282B3@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <20150419161023.GA2514@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 05:24:50PM -0400, dan at geer.org wrote:
> It's been shown more than once that total take in an online
> extortion scheme is increased if the demanded price is modest.
> Call it the Laffer Curve of cybercrime...
> 
> --dan

I suspect cleaning the mess will be much more expensive
than $300. This appears non-trivial in times of crisis
like this and recent shutdowns.

-- 
cheers




From coderman at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 22:29:22 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:29:22 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [tor-talk] Clarification of Tor's involvement with DARPA's Memex
In-Reply-To: <20150419232637.GK8172@moria.seul.org>
References: <5531370D.3010603@riseup.net>
 <20150419232637.GK8172@moria.seul.org>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1SOeeEsqRn9R0OX8JWwrP+n9TdvFHmUdWY33JmDqtQzpA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Roger Dingledine <arma at mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [tor-talk] Clarification of Tor's involvement with DARPA's Memex

On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 05:38:37PM +0100, Thomas White wrote:
> there is some references to DARPA collaborating with some
> developers from Tor Project. I'd like to ask the developers of Tor to
> clarify what this involvement entails and why effort is being put
> towards a LE tool instead of working on hiding Tor users through
> improving anonymity or developing more circumvention based-tech.

Hi Thomas,

Thanks for asking. I apologize for not explaining these answers
earlier. I'm still trying to find the right balance for my time between
mentoring people in the Tor community vs better broader communication too.

Let me give you some background, and then I'll answer your question.

First of all, yes indeed we've been getting some funding from the
Memex project. This is what has allowed us to pay attention to and move
forward on some of the really cool things we've been working on lately
for hidden services:

* Fixing many performance and consistency problems with hidden services,
e.g.:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/11447
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13211
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13447
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/13700
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/14219
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/14224

* Fleshing out the design and analysis for the "direct onion service"
option that folks like Facebook want:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2015-April/008625.html
plus discussing other tradeoffs between upcoming design choices:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2015-April/008597.html

* The work to let Tor controllers configure a hidden service directly
without using the torrc file, which the Globaleaks folks (among others)
are really excited to start using:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6411

* The privacy-preserving statistics that let us conclude numbers like
"3-4% of Tor traffic is hidden service related" and "there are around
30000 hidden services today":
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/some-statistics-about-onions

* Assessing, triaging, and putting out new Tor releases to fix
hidden service security (stability) bugs recently:
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-02512-and-0267-are-released

* I hear that Rob Jansen and others have been working on a more realistic
replacement for TorPerf (https://gitweb.torproject.org/torperf.git)
which will let us measure performance to a hidden service over time and
better understand where the bottlenecks are.

* I've also been talking to EFF about kicking off a Tor Onion Challenge
(to follow on from their Tor Relay Challenges), to a) get many people
to make their website or other service accessible as an onion site,
and b) come up with and/or build a novel use of onion services, to go
with the quite cool list that we have already but have done a poor job
of publicizing: Pond, Globaleaks, SecureDrop, Ricochet, OnionShare,
facebook's https onion, etc. You see, I used to be on the "making your
normal website reachable as an onion service is stupid" side of the fence,
but I have since come to realize that I was wrong. You know how, ten
years ago, website operators would say "I don't need to offer https for
my site, because my users ____" and they'd have some plausible-sounding
excuse? And now they sound selfish and short-sighted if they say that,
because everybody knows it should be the choice of the *user* what
security properties she gets when reaching a service? I now think onion
services are exactly in that boat: today we have plenty of people saying
"I don't need to offer a .onion for my site, because my users _____". We
need to turn it around so sites let their *users* decide what security
(encryption, authentication, trust) properties they want to achieve
while interacting with each site.

Our "3-4%" stat has actually been used by some of the other people (at
other groups) who are funded by Memex. They're talking to (among others)
the child porn division of the Department of Justice, and I've taught them
enough about Tor that they've basically turned into Tor advocates on our
behalf. They've found actual numbers to be really useful at countering the
FUD that some government people start out with. One of these people
explained to me last week that they listen to her more than she thinks
they'd listen to me, since she shows up as a neutral party. In any case
I am happy to have more people working on the "teach law enforcement
how Tor actually works" topic, which you can read more about here:
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/trip-report-tor-trainings-dutch-and-belgian-police
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/trip-report-october-fbi-conference

We do indeed need to be very careful and very thoughtful about what
things in the Tor network are safe to measure. The general heuristic we've
been using so far is: "Is that measurement taking advantage of something
that you could instead fix? If so, it's not ok to measure it." A prime
example here of what's over the line is running relays that get the
HSDir flag and then recording what hidden service descriptors they see
(and thus what hidden services they learn about). We would instead like
to treat that as a vulnerability and fix it:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/8106
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/8243
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/8244
and see also the "Attacks by Hidden Service Directory Servers" section of
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-need-some-love
as well as the section after it. (There are other researchers who have
used that technique, e.g.
http://freehaven.net/anonbib/#oakland2013-trawling and also Gareth Owen's
talk at 31c3. But we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard.)

On the other hand, if people publish a .onion address on a normal
website and Google runs across it and indexes the name, then it seems
clear that that's public information. There are many other ways to learn
about hidden service names which are ethically in-between, e.g.
http://blogs.verisigninc.com/blog/entry/new_from_verisign_labs_measuring1
These are great topics for us as a community to keep discussing.

Similarly, if your .onion address is public, and your webserver
doesn't require any authentication, and somebody fetches the content
on it... that also seems like public information. And if, for example,
the onion service is a forum, and users go there and then write their
names down or provide other identifying information, that isn't really
a bug or design flaw that Tor can fix.

These days there are services like Ahmia that list and index a bunch of
onion names and content:
https://ahmia.fi/search/
And to be clear, I think this is a great trend: we need to make onion
services easier to understand and more accessible (and faster and more
robust) for ordinary people, or we'll remain stuck with all the metaphors
that include the word 'dark'.

Ok, now that I've provided some background, I should try to answer your
question more clearly: we're using the Memex money to make hidden services
stronger, and we're teaching other people how Tor works. In terms of
teaching, it's the same thing I do for every other audience: explain about
all the projects Tor works on (Tor, Tor Browser, pluggable transports,
metrics, OONI, ...), which projects do what, how to measure and assess
Tor's anonymity, what problems we don't have great answers for, and so on.

Part of making Tor work better means that it works better for these people
too. And some of these people are indeed working on tools to gather and
organize public content from hidden services, with the intent that groups
like law enforcement will find their tools useful. We're not working
on these tools, but when Tor becomes better (for everybody) these tools
work better (for the groups they have in mind). It is a tricky balance,
but I think we have the balance right in this case.

Would I rather have funding where it's easier to find a good balance?
Absolutely. That's a major part of why we've been talking about funding
and funding diversity so much lately, and why we've been thinking about
crowdfunding specifically for hidden service design improvements, and
about growing our donation base and sustainability through donations
and other avenues. We need help from all of you to get there.

I don't want to play the "they'd do it anyway" card too strongly here --
first because who knows, maybe they wouldn't, and second because there
are definitely some activities that you stay away from no matter the
balance. I've talked a lot with the program manager of Memex, and he's
completely supportive of the "don't weaken Tor" mandate. In that sense
we're aligned: he very strongly believes that weakening Tor would screw up
this balance. I trust his intentions, and in any case we're the ones doing
the technical side of Tor so we can make sure that we do the right thing.

I should also make clear my opinion on some of the bad uses of Tor.
The folks who are using Tor for child porn, even though they are a tiny
fraction of overall Tor users, are greatly hurting Tor -- by changing
or reinforcing public perceptions of what privacy is for, and also
by attracting the attention and focus of law enforcement and making
that the way that law enforcement first learns about Tor. So, fuck
them, they should get off our network, that's not what Tor is for and
they're hurting all of us. Now, that doesn't mean we should weaken Tor,
even if we don't want them on the network. That slope is too easy to
slip down, and we must not get into the business of dictating what
is acceptable behavior for Tor users (which would eventually lead to
designing technical mechanisms to enforce these choices).

I just went back to re-read the Forbes article, and in retrospect it
sure makes it look like all of these companies are working on tools that
relate to Tor hidden services. They aren't. The main focus for Memex is
on automatically parsing and collecting info from ads on e.g. craigslist,
and generally getting better at the 'big data' side of searching and
organizing this data. More generally, Memex is made up of a bunch of
different companies, each doing their thing. I guess this is another
casualty of the ambiguity of the phrases 'dark web' and 'deep web',
since journalists find them hot to talk about but nobody reliably knows
what they refer to.

If you want to follow along with the actual technical work we're doing,
I invite you to observe or participate in the periodic "SponsorR"
meetings that happen on IRC:
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/SponsorR
http://meetbot.debian.net/tor-dev/

Thanks,
--Roger




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Sun Apr 19 13:31:11 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:31:11 +0200
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <5533f6c0.551a370a.0f16.2b28@mx.google.com>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
 <5533f6c0.551a370a.0f16.2b28@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2124891.SydbIfPH2l@lapuntu>

Dnia niedziela, 19 kwietnia 2015 15:45:14 Juan pisze:
> On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:58:42 +0200
> 
> dans at openmailbox.org wrote:
> > Hi everybody.
> > 
> > Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a
> > microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the
> > talking is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written
> > and improved.
> 
> 	For half a second I thought it was pardoy coming from the
> 	onion...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Works both ways, apparently.

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From list at sysfu.com  Sun Apr 19 23:38:05 2015
From: list at sysfu.com (Seth)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 23:38:05 -0700
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <op.xxdoprtnbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:58:42 -0700, <dans at openmailbox.org> wrote:
> Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a  
> microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking  
> is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and improved.

This product should be offered in a package deal with the Amazon Echo.

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkOCeAtKHIc

You might think it's a clever parody at first, but no folks, it's for real.

My favorite part of the video is the line at the end where the girl  
exclaims "with everything Echo can do, it's really become part of the  
family!!"

Caveat: DO NOT WATCH WHILE STONED




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 19 19:51:43 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 02:51:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <981784432.43907.1429498303550.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>




      From: coderman <coderman at gmail.com>
 To: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> 
Cc: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2015 3:32 PM
 Subject: Re: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office hostage drama
   
On 4/19/15, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com> wrote:


> ...
> I suspect cleaning the mess will be much more expensive
> than $300. This appears non-trivial in times of crisis
> like this and recent shutdowns.

>Josh Gates & crew at Chernobyl were encouraged to take a special
>liquid antidote as an additional precaution,

>"Thyroshield. Thyroid blocking in a radiation emergency only. Blueberry flavor.
>Blueberry flavor? Who gives a **** what the flavor is? If the atom
>bomb has just dropped, you don't care what the flavor is. It could be
>any flavor. It could say, 'Feces flavor', and if there was a radiation
>emergency, you'd be like, 'I WILL DRINK THIS.'"
>- Joshua Gates - Destination Truth : Ghosts of Chernobyl


>in terms of pen-test through self evidence, a part BTC fee perfectly
>logical resolution :P

So-called "anti-radiation pills" are made of potassium iodide (or sodium iodide; most any common iodide would work.).  They work by flooding the thyroid with iodine, so that extra radioactive iodine (from fallout) mostly passes through the body without effect.  They SHOULD be dirt-cheap; and they should have no expiration period.  (Although, I hear they are usually given such an expiration period; ignore it.)        Jim Bell



 



 
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From grarpamp at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 07:20:28 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 10:20:28 -0400
Subject: Memex Oil Gush
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SRpJmQiegg9Q8=zODycFt+V74pOKkZtZzg5xkC_YTJNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
 <E1YjH32-0001u8-Ix@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAJVRA1SRpJmQiegg9Q8=zODycFt+V74pOKkZtZzg5xkC_YTJNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28PORvP-Ow6Yj92BXX7a_TUSTpRCzgVQbxXzJNUB=9ABg@mail.gmail.com>

Some memex bits now open sourced...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/17/darpa-nasa-and-partners-show-off-memex/
http://www.darpa.mil/opencatalog/MEMEX.html




From bizdevcon at icloud.com  Mon Apr 20 02:41:51 2015
From: bizdevcon at icloud.com (Lorenz Szabo)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 11:41:51 +0200
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <op.xxdoprtnbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
 <op.xxdoprtnbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <B30EE0FD-4562-4468-9E51-09683DC296AA@icloud.com>

Kinda off-topic but, oh my gosh, what a happy Amazon family. Best part: “You actually don’t have to yell at it!” but dad always yells at it from the kitchen…


I wonder how many Samsung Smart TVs do the same with users not knowing or realising it.

– BizDevCon


> On 20 Apr 2015, at 08:38, Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:58:42 -0700, <dans at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>> Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and improved.
> 
> This product should be offered in a package deal with the Amazon Echo.
> 
> Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkOCeAtKHIc
> 
> You might think it's a clever parody at first, but no folks, it's for real.
> 
> My favorite part of the video is the line at the end where the girl exclaims "with everything Echo can do, it's really become part of the family!!"
> 
> Caveat: DO NOT WATCH WHILE STONED

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From guninski at guninski.com  Mon Apr 20 04:09:22 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 14:09:22 +0300
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end
 office hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
 <20150416212450.6F97A2282B3@palinka.tinho.net>
 <20150419161023.GA2514@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150420110922.GA2534@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 03:32:15PM -0700, coderman wrote:
> in terms of pen-test through self evidence, a part BTC fee perfectly
> logical resolution :P

This reminds me of the song "Bakerman:

"Bakerman is baking bread"

-- 
georgi




From s at ctrlc.hu  Mon Apr 20 07:46:23 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:46:23 +0200
Subject: Memex Oil Gush
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28PORvP-Ow6Yj92BXX7a_TUSTpRCzgVQbxXzJNUB=9ABg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55319df3.0a808c0a.3c9e.1308@mx.google.com>
 <E1YjH32-0001u8-Ix@elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAJVRA1SRpJmQiegg9Q8=zODycFt+V74pOKkZtZzg5xkC_YTJNw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2Ti28PORvP-Ow6Yj92BXX7a_TUSTpRCzgVQbxXzJNUB=9ABg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150420144623.GN6950@ctrlc.hu>

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 10:20:28AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> Some memex bits now open sourced...
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/04/17/darpa-nasa-and-partners-show-off-memex/

> TJBatchExtractor is what’s going open source today. It allows a user to
> extract data, such as a name, organisation or location, from advertisements.

this sounds interesting, there was open-calais so far from reuters which did
this, but only as a centralized service, if gratis, or you could build your
own corpuses if your domain is not covered by the widely available ones.
however there is lot's of problems with non-english names, for evaluation of
such entity-extractors i recommend to test them with some data set containing
eu public officials, with names in greek, bulgarian and some latin-speaking
country and some slavic speaking one and you have something that can confuse
such entity extraction quite sufficiently. i guess i'm gonna give this a test,
maybe it's better. but i guess this again also mostly depends on the corpus.

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From hettinga at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 03:21:27 2015
From: hettinga at gmail.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:21:27 -0400
Subject: What Exactly Is Encryption?  
Message-ID: <095DFB4C-A585-40E6-8031-D31EBF9C95E0@gmail.com>


http://www.wsj.com/articles/encryption-uncoded-a-consumers-guide-1429499476?tesla=y

What Exactly Is Encryption?

       
Encryption turns messages into a string of unreadable characters. Photo: Getty Images

By
Elizabeth Dwoskin
April 19, 2015 11:11 p.m. ET
In times like these, it’s easy to be paranoid.

Concerned by reports of hacking, data breaches and government spying, companies and consumers are looking for better ways to protect their data. Many are turning to encryption, a method of encoding messages that goes back millennia. Encryption is commonly used to secure online banking sessions and to protect credit-card data. But for the average computer user, it remains a mystery.

Here’s a brief guide to help readers unlock its secrets.

How does encryption work?

If you saw the recent movie “The Imitation Game,” you’ve seen a rudimentary, by modern standards, form of encryption. During World War II, the Germans used a machine to turn military messages into coded strings of symbols. These days, computers running complex mathematical formulas can do the same thing much faster, and the codes are much harder to crack.

What’s it used for?

If you’ve ever done banking online, you may have noticed a “lock” icon in the address bar, or that the bar turned green. That means the browser session is encrypted by your bank.

Consumers can download a growing crop of encryption tools for texting, browsing sessions and video and phone calls. Users usually must download an app or install software that scrambles messages as they are sent. (The recipient needs to be using the same app or software to unscramble the message.)

Apple has started encrypting personal data on its latest mobile operating system, iOS 8. This means an outsider who hacks into a device or into Apple’s servers would see a string of unreadable characters instead of actual messages or FaceTime videos.

Can I encrypt email messages?

Yes, but it’s tricky. Sender and receiver must use the same type of encryption. If you have encryption switched on, but the friend you’re emailing doesn’t have it, he or she won’t be able to read your message.

Since the revelations of former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden about electronic eavesdropping by the NSA, big tech companies have made moves to add encryption. Yahoo Inc. and Google Inc. both have announced plans to begin encrypting emails of users of their services, but the projects are moving slowly.

Can encryption really protect me from getting hacked?

ENLARGE
Maybe. If a hacker obtains the encryption keys, or the formula that unlocks the code, all that encrypting was for naught. And that happens all the time in corporate data breaches, says Avivah Litan, a vice president and senior analyst focusing on security issues at market-research firm Gartner Inc. For example, as part of the 2007 breach at TJX Cos., hackers stole a TJX point-of-sale card-reader system and brought it home. The hackers were able to break the code used to encrypt card transactions and stole data from tens of millions of customer accounts.

How can I get started?

In addition to Apple’s built-in encryption in its new mobile devices, Android users can download WhatsApp, which encrypts text messages. WhatsApp, a company owned by Facebook Inc., says it is working on offering encryption for all communication sent between WhatsApp users, including images, audio and text.

A number of vendors—including Voltage Security Inc., Protegrity and RSA Security, a unit of EMC Corp. —offer encryption of corporate data, including email and credit-card records. Silent Circle’s Blackphone is a phone for corporate users that can send encrypted voice calls, text, emails and other data—if both parties are using a Blackphone.

Why isn’t everything encrypted? 

There are plenty of reasons. Encryption is time-consuming and difficult to implement. It’s hard to properly manage who has access to encryption keys, and it slows system performance.

Ms. Dwoskin is a reporter in the San Francisco bureau of The Wall Street Journal. 




From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Apr 21 01:43:34 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:43:34 +0200
Subject: Welcome to the FUTURE: US cops pay Bitcoin ransom to end office
 hostage drama
In-Reply-To: <20150420110922.GA2534@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <8EDF9BD7-981A-498B-AD4E-6DB0E88BC841@icloud.com>
 <CAJVRA1QqUtyqwoEifjSQ=dtdbYRDkXAY=oSj1AXFg3Wm8oxC9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150420110922.GA2534@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <2354614.jTbPkH1KB9@lapuntu>

Dnia poniedziałek, 20 kwietnia 2015 14:09:22 Georgi Guninski pisze:
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 03:32:15PM -0700, coderman wrote:
> > in terms of pen-test through self evidence, a part BTC fee perfectly
> > logical resolution :P
> 
> This reminds me of the song "Bakerman:
> 
> "Bakerman is baking bread"

If the bakerman is red-haired, does that make him a ginger bread man?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From bizdevcon at icloud.com  Tue Apr 21 03:55:24 2015
From: bizdevcon at icloud.com (L0R3NZ 5Z4B0)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 12:55:24 +0200
Subject: What Exactly Is Encryption?
In-Reply-To: <095DFB4C-A585-40E6-8031-D31EBF9C95E0@gmail.com>
References: <095DFB4C-A585-40E6-8031-D31EBF9C95E0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8BA8F198-B807-4DB9-9388-DE65CAD3830E@icloud.com>

Oh my, the WSJ: No comment on Silent Circle, Signal, or Telegram but of all bad apps: WhatsApp – where they are working on it?

This WSJ article reads like a homework assignment.

– BizDevCon

> On 21 Apr 2015, at 12:21, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/encryption-uncoded-a-consumers-guide-1429499476?tesla=y
> 
> What Exactly Is Encryption?
> 
> 
> Encryption turns messages into a string of unreadable characters. Photo: Getty Images
> 
> By
> Elizabeth Dwoskin
> April 19, 2015 11:11 p.m. ET
> In times like these, it’s easy to be paranoid.
> 
> Concerned by reports of hacking, data breaches and government spying, companies and consumers are looking for better ways to protect their data. Many are turning to encryption, a method of encoding messages that goes back millennia. Encryption is commonly used to secure online banking sessions and to protect credit-card data. But for the average computer user, it remains a mystery.
> 
> Here’s a brief guide to help readers unlock its secrets.
> 
> How does encryption work?
> 
> If you saw the recent movie “The Imitation Game,” you’ve seen a rudimentary, by modern standards, form of encryption. During World War II, the Germans used a machine to turn military messages into coded strings of symbols. These days, computers running complex mathematical formulas can do the same thing much faster, and the codes are much harder to crack.
> 
> What’s it used for?
> 
> If you’ve ever done banking online, you may have noticed a “lock” icon in the address bar, or that the bar turned green. That means the browser session is encrypted by your bank.
> 
> Consumers can download a growing crop of encryption tools for texting, browsing sessions and video and phone calls. Users usually must download an app or install software that scrambles messages as they are sent. (The recipient needs to be using the same app or software to unscramble the message.)
> 
> Apple has started encrypting personal data on its latest mobile operating system, iOS 8. This means an outsider who hacks into a device or into Apple’s servers would see a string of unreadable characters instead of actual messages or FaceTime videos.
> 
> Can I encrypt email messages?
> 
> Yes, but it’s tricky. Sender and receiver must use the same type of encryption. If you have encryption switched on, but the friend you’re emailing doesn’t have it, he or she won’t be able to read your message.
> 
> Since the revelations of former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden about electronic eavesdropping by the NSA, big tech companies have made moves to add encryption. Yahoo Inc. and Google Inc. both have announced plans to begin encrypting emails of users of their services, but the projects are moving slowly.
> 
> Can encryption really protect me from getting hacked?
> 
> ENLARGE
> Maybe. If a hacker obtains the encryption keys, or the formula that unlocks the code, all that encrypting was for naught. And that happens all the time in corporate data breaches, says Avivah Litan, a vice president and senior analyst focusing on security issues at market-research firm Gartner Inc. For example, as part of the 2007 breach at TJX Cos., hackers stole a TJX point-of-sale card-reader system and brought it home. The hackers were able to break the code used to encrypt card transactions and stole data from tens of millions of customer accounts.
> 
> How can I get started?
> 
> In addition to Apple’s built-in encryption in its new mobile devices, Android users can download WhatsApp, which encrypts text messages. WhatsApp, a company owned by Facebook Inc., says it is working on offering encryption for all communication sent between WhatsApp users, including images, audio and text.
> 
> A number of vendors—including Voltage Security Inc., Protegrity and RSA Security, a unit of EMC Corp. —offer encryption of corporate data, including email and credit-card records. Silent Circle’s Blackphone is a phone for corporate users that can send encrypted voice calls, text, emails and other data—if both parties are using a Blackphone.
> 
> Why isn’t everything encrypted? 
> 
> There are plenty of reasons. Encryption is time-consuming and difficult to implement. It’s hard to properly manage who has access to encryption keys, and it slows system performance.
> 
> Ms. Dwoskin is a reporter in the San Francisco bureau of The Wall Street Journal. 




From dstainton415 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 08:47:28 2015
From: dstainton415 at gmail.com (David Stainton)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 15:47:28 +0000
Subject: What Exactly Is Encryption?
In-Reply-To: <8BA8F198-B807-4DB9-9388-DE65CAD3830E@icloud.com>
References: <095DFB4C-A585-40E6-8031-D31EBF9C95E0@gmail.com>
 <8BA8F198-B807-4DB9-9388-DE65CAD3830E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAFN1edqUCXOZ8s3+h=UzQuBy0dhUP3edDVRu4dWupwhgq7FXmw@mail.gmail.com>

This was a terribly uninformative article filled with various
inacuracies. Thanks for nothing punk.

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:55 AM, L0R3NZ 5Z4B0 <bizdevcon at icloud.com> wrote:
> Oh my, the WSJ: No comment on Silent Circle, Signal, or Telegram but of all bad apps: WhatsApp – where they are working on it?
>
> This WSJ article reads like a homework assignment.
>
> – BizDevCon
>
>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 12:21, Robert Hettinga <hettinga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.wsj.com/articles/encryption-uncoded-a-consumers-guide-1429499476?tesla=y
>>
>> What Exactly Is Encryption?
>>
>>
>> Encryption turns messages into a string of unreadable characters. Photo: Getty Images
>>
>> By
>> Elizabeth Dwoskin
>> April 19, 2015 11:11 p.m. ET
>> In times like these, it’s easy to be paranoid.
>>
>> Concerned by reports of hacking, data breaches and government spying, companies and consumers are looking for better ways to protect their data. Many are turning to encryption, a method of encoding messages that goes back millennia. Encryption is commonly used to secure online banking sessions and to protect credit-card data. But for the average computer user, it remains a mystery.
>>
>> Here’s a brief guide to help readers unlock its secrets.
>>
>> How does encryption work?
>>
>> If you saw the recent movie “The Imitation Game,” you’ve seen a rudimentary, by modern standards, form of encryption. During World War II, the Germans used a machine to turn military messages into coded strings of symbols. These days, computers running complex mathematical formulas can do the same thing much faster, and the codes are much harder to crack.
>>
>> What’s it used for?
>>
>> If you’ve ever done banking online, you may have noticed a “lock” icon in the address bar, or that the bar turned green. That means the browser session is encrypted by your bank.
>>
>> Consumers can download a growing crop of encryption tools for texting, browsing sessions and video and phone calls. Users usually must download an app or install software that scrambles messages as they are sent. (The recipient needs to be using the same app or software to unscramble the message.)
>>
>> Apple has started encrypting personal data on its latest mobile operating system, iOS 8. This means an outsider who hacks into a device or into Apple’s servers would see a string of unreadable characters instead of actual messages or FaceTime videos.
>>
>> Can I encrypt email messages?
>>
>> Yes, but it’s tricky. Sender and receiver must use the same type of encryption. If you have encryption switched on, but the friend you’re emailing doesn’t have it, he or she won’t be able to read your message.
>>
>> Since the revelations of former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden about electronic eavesdropping by the NSA, big tech companies have made moves to add encryption. Yahoo Inc. and Google Inc. both have announced plans to begin encrypting emails of users of their services, but the projects are moving slowly.
>>
>> Can encryption really protect me from getting hacked?
>>
>> ENLARGE
>> Maybe. If a hacker obtains the encryption keys, or the formula that unlocks the code, all that encrypting was for naught. And that happens all the time in corporate data breaches, says Avivah Litan, a vice president and senior analyst focusing on security issues at market-research firm Gartner Inc. For example, as part of the 2007 breach at TJX Cos., hackers stole a TJX point-of-sale card-reader system and brought it home. The hackers were able to break the code used to encrypt card transactions and stole data from tens of millions of customer accounts.
>>
>> How can I get started?
>>
>> In addition to Apple’s built-in encryption in its new mobile devices, Android users can download WhatsApp, which encrypts text messages. WhatsApp, a company owned by Facebook Inc., says it is working on offering encryption for all communication sent between WhatsApp users, including images, audio and text.
>>
>> A number of vendors—including Voltage Security Inc., Protegrity and RSA Security, a unit of EMC Corp. —offer encryption of corporate data, including email and credit-card records. Silent Circle’s Blackphone is a phone for corporate users that can send encrypted voice calls, text, emails and other data—if both parties are using a Blackphone.
>>
>> Why isn’t everything encrypted?
>>
>> There are plenty of reasons. Encryption is time-consuming and difficult to implement. It’s hard to properly manage who has access to encryption keys, and it slows system performance.
>>
>> Ms. Dwoskin is a reporter in the San Francisco bureau of The Wall Street Journal.
>




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 16:30:49 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:30:49 -0700
Subject: Raspberry pi safe?
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1SUh2CTrkUjx0Tn_nfb93mJn=hcLB7AzyfSLrddUO4mTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFqg5u1My-GJD+XaYKD5qzUL4766+DbzjhE1fZ7vGUUqAbcLQA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9A0AED52-625F-4A5E-957B-081D60BCB10C@cathalgarvey.me>
 <20150417181600.GA12447@hexapodia.org>
 <CAJVRA1SUh2CTrkUjx0Tn_nfb93mJn=hcLB7AzyfSLrddUO4mTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Tohr4HSuTBFj9iJ0cMj7a0PVKBdRdoFdK+Utf-uwvdgg@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/15, coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> for a not designed to fail bus between SoCs,
>
> an SPI based ... if you trust these, then direct PCIe 4lane


someone else brought up DRAM fill over JTAG, other JTAG based comms.
also not unreasonable, even if overkill for this purpose alone.




From coderman at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 17:43:51 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:43:51 -0700
Subject: jump the paywall
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>

Jumping the Paywall: How to freely share research without being arrested.

This workshop will identify and address two safety-critical problems
permeating research
today: lack of total free access to scholarship, and the looming
threat of apprehension for
trying to facilitate said free access.

The workshop will hypothesize workable solutions to the stated problem
sets by presenting
actionable intelligence and exploring tactical modes of engagement in
the on-going copyfight
via the exploration of securing free access to scholarship (in the
form of academic e-journal
articles and e-books), and via developing avoidance strategies to
forego existent and
emergent threats of apprehension resulting from participation in the
practices of free access.

Topics covered will include:

--> Content access procurement
--> Operational security during field deployment
--> Watermark, metadata and content-protection identification and removal
--> Content distribution


Huh?
Ever try to view a journal article only to slam into an extortionate paywall?
Then you should stop by.

Where?
PSH (NAB) 314
Goldsmiths, University of London
https://www.gold.ac.uk/find-us/

When?
Date: Friday, 24 April 2015
Time: 15.00-17.00




From shelley at misanthropia.org  Tue Apr 21 21:47:55 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:47:55 -0700
Subject: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28Z42scxSniyWbQxYFyV6zcm=crHO46-Nsei-yFWG-DgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28Z42scxSniyWbQxYFyV6zcm=crHO46-Nsei-yFWG-DgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150422044739.EB50EC00019@frontend1.nyi.internal>

On April 21, 2015 9:33:26 PM grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://gizmodo.com/dhs-secretary-begs-silicon-valley-to-stop-the-encryptio-1699273657
>
> "DHS has a specific agenda, which is to push back on the call for encryption"
> "help the government have more access to unencrypted data"
> "new DHS outpost is part of a much larger agenda"
> "attracting engineers away from the private sector"
> "Voluntary" Information" "Sharing"
> "We need your help to find the solution."
>
> Choose your own response:
> A) I'm a sheep.
> B) Sorry bruh, ain't happenin.

How about C) Not only is it *not* happening, we are going to crack them 
open wider than 100 Snowdens and Mannings combined?  Can we add that?

'Cause I choose C.





From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 19:02:17 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:02:17 -0300
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <2124891.SydbIfPH2l@lapuntu>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
 <5533f6c0.551a370a.0f16.2b28@mx.google.com>
 <2124891.SydbIfPH2l@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55370037.ce908c0a.1c91.ffffd9cf@mx.google.com>

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 22:31:11 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia niedziela, 19 kwietnia 2015 15:45:14 Juan pisze:
> > On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:58:42 +0200
> > 
> > dans at openmailbox.org wrote:
> > > Hi everybody.
> > > 
> > > Have you seen the next Barbie Doll called 'hello Barbie. It has a
> > > microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the
> > > talking is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are
> > > written and improved.
> > 
> > 	For half a second I thought it was pardoy coming from the
> > 	onion...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
> 
> Works both ways, apparently.
> 


	Indeed. 

	











From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 19:11:15 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:11:15 -0300
Subject: free enterprise
Message-ID: <55370258.d0948c0a.6e25.ffffdd85@mx.google.com>




http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 20:47:08 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 23:47:08 -0400
Subject: cryptography@metzdowd.com
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti28Z42scxSniyWbQxYFyV6zcm=crHO46-Nsei-yFWG-DgA@mail.gmail.com>

http://gizmodo.com/dhs-secretary-begs-silicon-valley-to-stop-the-encryptio-1699273657

"DHS has a specific agenda, which is to push back on the call for encryption"
"help the government have more access to unencrypted data"
"new DHS outpost is part of a much larger agenda"
"attracting engineers away from the private sector"
"Voluntary" Information" "Sharing"
"We need your help to find the solution."

Choose your own response:
A) I'm a sheep.
B) Sorry bruh, ain't happenin.




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 22:05:54 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 01:05:54 -0400
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <553421D9.4060505@riseup.net>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
 <553421D9.4060505@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti29QtGHgN9K6pm6xrkmKpfMe0xkQBBJYt8Y6nwa_yD4J6g@mail.gmail.com>

> On 04/19/2015 10:58 AM, dans at openmailbox.org wrote:
>> microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking
>> is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and improved.

Corp and Govt goldmine and programming tool...

Kid: My Daddy has a big tool, my Mommy grows plants in the basement,
my Sister has some kind of coin thingy on her puter, my name is Joey, I
like boys, my Auntie says she hates the IRS and is going to protest, and
you are my BFF.

Doll: ...

>> Of course there'll be an app for the parents to later listen the chats

Least of your worries.

Don't forget, Target knows when you're pregnant, expect free
shipping and steep discounts on Barbie dolls.




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Wed Apr 22 08:31:12 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 08:31:12 -0700
Subject: jump the paywall
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5537BEC0.4060702@riseup.net>



On 04/21/2015 05:43 PM, coderman wrote:
> Ever try to view a journal article only to slam into an extortionate paywall?
> Then you should stop by.
>
> Where?
> PSH (NAB) 314
> Goldsmiths, University of London
> https://www.gold.ac.uk/find-us/
>
> When?
> Date: Friday, 24 April 2015
> Time: 15.00-17.00

Snarkily... If I could afford the airfare I could afford to buy the
articles...


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From bizdevcon at icloud.com  Wed Apr 22 01:19:22 2015
From: bizdevcon at icloud.com (Lorenz Szabo)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:19:22 +0200
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti29QtGHgN9K6pm6xrkmKpfMe0xkQBBJYt8Y6nwa_yD4J6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <282909c69c813b9590461515fb8b5b4f@openmailbox.org>
 <553421D9.4060505@riseup.net>
 <CAD2Ti29QtGHgN9K6pm6xrkmKpfMe0xkQBBJYt8Y6nwa_yD4J6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D29406B-C7C4-44B5-9BE6-A7D4BE7464E5@icloud.com>

Last one from my side but this “drunk” YouTube review of the Echo is funny:

Amazon Echo - Drunk Tech Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHn_KP7hjHc

~ BizDevCon
___
Austria, Vienna
PGP: 3542726F

> On 22 Apr 2015, at 07:05, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 04/19/2015 10:58 AM, dans at openmailbox.org wrote:
>>> microphone and wi-fi conection, when the kids talk to 'her' the talking
>>> is sent to a server where the answers of Barbie are written and improved.
> 
> Corp and Govt goldmine and programming tool...
> 
> Kid: My Daddy has a big tool, my Mommy grows plants in the basement,
> my Sister has some kind of coin thingy on her puter, my name is Joey, I
> like boys, my Auntie says she hates the IRS and is going to protest, and
> you are my BFF.
> 
> Doll: ...
> 
>>> Of course there'll be an app for the parents to later listen the chats
> 
> Least of your worries.
> 
> Don't forget, Target knows when you're pregnant, expect free
> shipping and steep discounts on Barbie dolls.

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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Wed Apr 22 01:25:55 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:25:55 +0200
Subject: free enterprise
In-Reply-To: <55370258.d0948c0a.6e25.ffffdd85@mx.google.com>
References: <55370258.d0948c0a.6e25.ffffdd85@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3987607.nerncZYUDz@lapuntu>

Dnia wtorek, 21 kwietnia 2015 23:11:15 Juan pisze:
> http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

Copyfraud is fun!
http://rys.io/en/60

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 10:32:54 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:32:54 -0700
Subject: free enterprise within walled gardens
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Qw+Cr79kh4eAYdXxiaTa1+1=zh1Ymes18Qq3PjCZ81gw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/21/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/


happened to my hay guy; error code and no start. only recourse is a
certified John Deere (TM)(R) Service Agent (SM)(R)(C).

at some point, you piss off the wrong slice of the populace - you're
fucking with the livelihood of rugged routine loving folks. perhaps a
DVB beam steering obfuscated dead drop in a sunk well to seed all
tractor DMCA bypass for great justice results. who knows, (but i do
get 93Mbps d/11Mbps up at the barn! :)

DMCA infused in your Interweb of Things a special natured dystopia ...




From coderman at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 10:41:11 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:41:11 -0700
Subject: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <E1YkxRa-0006tE-8K@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1YkxRa-0006tE-8K@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Ta0g4dTNYA=SZSt89UMX0787KWEFSOnbqyK6Y-KJ5g5g@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/15, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> Adi Shamir at RSA Conference:
>
> Fully secure systems don't exist now and won't exist in the future.
>
> Cryptography won't be broken, it will be bypassed.
>
> Futility of trying to eliminate every single vulnerability in a given
> piece of software.
>
> https://threatpost.com/fully-secure-systems-dont-exist/112380#sthash.sKPz03sv.dpuf


not quite true, this assertion:
'“If you’re trying to find the last bug or stop the most
sophisticated, NSA-type attacker, you have to spend totally
unreasonable money,” he said.'

you may also spend totally unreasonable amounts of skilled time...




From wilfred at vt.edu  Wed Apr 22 13:20:59 2015
From: wilfred at vt.edu (Wilfred Guerin)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 11:20:59 -0900
Subject: Invalidity of ODNI Statements
In-Reply-To: <CAG+6jOYetdhqk9dwV8U1+HGnBDPq6D79VmYnfU8uhQ8f4ObLUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG+6jOYetdhqk9dwV8U1+HGnBDPq6D79VmYnfU8uhQ8f4ObLUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG+6jOa4uKpYTDqUuccVWHxDrhsm-zvuMHKYYRhpEJvYiTPtuA@mail.gmail.com>

With today's statistics from DNI and last month's "Privacy Statement" PDFs
from *some* of the American "IC" (sans DEA, US Marshals Domestic
Intelligence), you will notice some glaring exceptions: "experimental
research and training" and "Oversight"... ALL NSA and sigint is offloaded
to "Civil Liberties Infrastructure" to assure "Oversight" and mutual access
to "Global Partners" , and, OIG units all feed FBI OIC "Office of Integrity
and Compliance" whitch retains all data for exhaustive analysis with
certain military partners without limitation nor "Oversight" -- typical of
the mob who took over from Hoover in the 1970s. FBI OIC Kelley is uncle of
Petraeus' mistress Jill Kelley, DNI CLPO Alexander Joel is grandson of
Clarence Kelley. Oversight = absolute exploitation. Oh, and CIA analytics
director Kelley ran Dell Computer Japan. Snowed in with Miranda, right?
Nice to run the "Oversight" offices, eh Kelley? X-Ray that. "Experimental"
(exhaustive) NSA returns findings to "Official Story" NSA and others.
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From carimachet at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 03:08:32 2015
From: carimachet at gmail.com (Cari Machet)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 12:08:32 +0200
Subject: jump the paywall
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGRDzQVnPnS7caWeHMZOK-cQnD0gPN2B1z6ZUzNk-Qnje72+DQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yay!
On Apr 22, 2015 3:57 AM, "coderman" <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jumping the Paywall: How to freely share research without being arrested.
>
> This workshop will identify and address two safety-critical problems
> permeating research
> today: lack of total free access to scholarship, and the looming
> threat of apprehension for
> trying to facilitate said free access.
>
> The workshop will hypothesize workable solutions to the stated problem
> sets by presenting
> actionable intelligence and exploring tactical modes of engagement in
> the on-going copyfight
> via the exploration of securing free access to scholarship (in the
> form of academic e-journal
> articles and e-books), and via developing avoidance strategies to
> forego existent and
> emergent threats of apprehension resulting from participation in the
> practices of free access.
>
> Topics covered will include:
>
> --> Content access procurement
> --> Operational security during field deployment
> --> Watermark, metadata and content-protection identification and removal
> --> Content distribution
>
>
> Huh?
> Ever try to view a journal article only to slam into an extortionate
> paywall?
> Then you should stop by.
>
> Where?
> PSH (NAB) 314
> Goldsmiths, University of London
> https://www.gold.ac.uk/find-us/
>
> When?
> Date: Friday, 24 April 2015
> Time: 15.00-17.00
>
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From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Apr 22 09:24:20 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 12:24:20 -0400
Subject: Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
Message-ID: <E1YkxRa-0006tE-8K@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Adi Shamir at RSA Conference:

Fully secure systems don't exist now and won't exist in the future.

Cryptography won't be broken, it will be bypassed.

Futility of trying to eliminate every single vulnerability in a given 
piece of software.

https://threatpost.com/fully-secure-systems-dont-exist/112380#sthash.sKPz03sv.dpuf






From zen at freedbms.net  Tue Apr 21 21:15:50 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 14:15:50 +1000
Subject: cryptography@metzdowd.com
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti28Z42scxSniyWbQxYFyV6zcm=crHO46-Nsei-yFWG-DgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD2Ti28Z42scxSniyWbQxYFyV6zcm=crHO46-Nsei-yFWG-DgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSRs738jTrfJN+RQFUQUf17bERrrG5HrF081Q+jwB_QPGw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/22/15, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://gizmodo.com/dhs-secretary-begs-silicon-valley-to-stop-the-encryptio-1699273657
>
> "DHS has a specific agenda, which is to push back on the call for
> encryption"
> "help the government have more access to unencrypted data"
> "new DHS outpost is part of a much larger agenda"
> "attracting engineers away from the private sector"
> "Voluntary" Information" "Sharing"
> "We need your help to find the solution."
>
> Choose your own response:
> A) I'm a sheep.
> B) Sorry bruh, ain't happenin.

Baa aa aa aaa...




From s at ctrlc.hu  Wed Apr 22 07:43:23 2015
From: s at ctrlc.hu (stef)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:43:23 +0200
Subject: wth
Message-ID: <20150422144323.GV6914@ctrlc.hu>

a messenger admits its hard to do and makes a responsible decision, kudos:
https://hemlismessenger.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/sometimes-you-understand/

also one of my rules might be crumbling a bit:
https://grepular.com/An_NFC_PGP_SmartCard_For_Android
luckily the others hold also in this case ;)

-- 
otr fp: https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/otr.txt




From dstainton415 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 11:41:07 2015
From: dstainton415 at gmail.com (David Stainton)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 18:41:07 +0000
Subject: Quantum Insert detection for everyone
Message-ID: <CAFN1edqPWLSm-Ru6ZcQwa741YPqXtDOQBZxBnYVmruRhN4NxuA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

Did you all see this Wired article about Quantum Insert detection?

https://www.wired.com/2015/04/researchers-uncover-method-detect-nsa-quantum-insert-hacks

These TCP injection attacks are used by various entities around the
world (not just NSA!) to target individuals for surveillance or
perhaps to add their computers to a botnet for other purposes.

If you do not use a VPN or Tor you can run "Quantum Insert" detection
on your computer and detect when you receive an attack attempt.
However be advised that proper sandboxing is important here because
intrusion detection and protocol anylsis tools are notoriously
insecure and get pwned all the time.

If you are a Tor exit relay operator you have the options of running
detection software; However you should not publish the results
publicly without mixing in some noise or your published data might
make it possible for some adversaries to deanonymize Tor users. If
your country has strict telecommunications laws then it might only be
legal for you to perform this type of detection if you do not perform
logging.

For the past several months... in my free time I've been slowly
developing a very comprehensive TCP injection attack detection tool
called HoneyBadger:

https://github.com/david415/HoneyBadger

Quantum Insert is a NSA codeword for "TCP injection attack", however
either of these terms are too vague. During my research I was able to
classify 4 different types of TCP injection attack. When I say that
HoneytBadger is comprehensive what I mean is that Honeybadger can
detect ALL of these types of TCP injection attack types... I describe
them briefly here:

https://honeybadger.readthedocs.org/en/latest/

Here's the Fox-IT blog post about their Quantum Insert detection software:
http://blog.fox-it.com/2015/04/20/deep-dive-into-quantum-insert/

I am going to work on writing a much more comprehensive blog post; it
will be filled with gory technical details AND it will include
information on how to use HoneyBadger. HoneyBadger has optional (off
by default) full-take logging which could enable you to capture a
zero-day payload from a TCP attack; you should then responsibly
disclose to the software vendor or contact a malware analyst to help
out!


Sincerely,

David Stainton




From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Apr 22 17:02:15 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:02:15 -0400
Subject: NSA releases 52,000 pages of William F. Friedman Collection
Message-ID: <E1Yl4ZQ-0008Oh-DN@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

NSA releases 52,000 pages of William F. Friedman Collection, searchable:

<https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/friedman_documents/index.shtml>https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/friedman_documents/index.shtml

Document index spreadsheet:

<https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/friedmanDocuments/Friedman_Collection_Metadata.xlsx>https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/friedmanDocuments/Friedman_Collection_Metadata.xlsx  
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 16:08:21 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:08:21 -0300
Subject: wth
In-Reply-To: <CAD2Ti2-6A+KQzvhAS0sPRJA06Vu7J8Nu=jcRonwP_v6DdVaTLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150422144323.GV6914@ctrlc.hu>
 <CAD2Ti2-6A+KQzvhAS0sPRJA06Vu7J8Nu=jcRonwP_v6DdVaTLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553828e5.e4518c0a.0187.fffff08d@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:16:44 -0400
grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 10:43 AM, stef <s at ctrlc.hu> wrote:
> > https://hemlismessenger.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/sometimes-you-understand/
> 
> "I’m personally trying to influence people and politicians to make
> sure we don’t need systems like Heml.is. We should be protected by the
> governments instead of trying to protect ourselves from them. 


	Human stupidity knows no bounds? These people are supposed to
	be a bit more clever than the average? 


	



> It’s a
> multi-angle attack needed, technology, political work and
> transparency."
> 





From guninski at guninski.com  Wed Apr 22 10:16:50 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 20:16:50 +0300
Subject: jump the paywall
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1QyNu_ge5UeF_HXdEx6UdrAwArK_aw3ygxCB3XvnFBWCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150422171650.GA2552@sivokote.iziade.m$>

Are plagiarizing this pastebin? ;)

pastebin.com/raw.php?i=LPeaqQiP




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Wed Apr 22 03:29:07 2015
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:29:07 +1200
Subject: Finally Barbie became clever the new "hello Barbie"
In-Reply-To: <1D29406B-C7C4-44B5-9BE6-A7D4BE7464E5@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <E1Ykrtz-000560-Eo@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz>

Lorenz Szabo <bizdevcon at icloud.com> writes:

>Last one from my side but this “drunk” YouTube review of the Echo is funny:
>
>Amazon Echo - Drunk Tech Review
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHn_KP7hjHc

Lamarr's review is more amusing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eewlRCfewQ

Peter.




From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 18:52:25 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 22:52:25 -0300
Subject: free enterprise
In-Reply-To: <3987607.nerncZYUDz@lapuntu>
References: <55370258.d0948c0a.6e25.ffffdd85@mx.google.com>
 <3987607.nerncZYUDz@lapuntu>
Message-ID: <55384f5b.d5a58c0a.6472.ffffae72@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:25:55 +0200
rysiek <rysiek at hackerspace.pl> wrote:

> Dnia wtorek, 21 kwietnia 2015 23:11:15 Juan pisze:
> > http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
> 
> Copyfraud is fun!
> http://rys.io/en/60
> 


	Ah, lawyers. I didn't know this "First-sale doctrine" at least
	by name. Even funnier "The first-sale doctrine is one of the
	traditional safety valves." 

	As usual the government graciously saves its subjects from the
	monopolies the government creates. Sorry, I mean, pretends to
	save.

	Business as a usual.







From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 19:00:11 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 23:00:11 -0300
Subject: free enterprise within walled gardens
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Qw+Cr79kh4eAYdXxiaTa1+1=zh1Ymes18Qq3PjCZ81gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJVRA1Qw+Cr79kh4eAYdXxiaTa1+1=zh1Ymes18Qq3PjCZ81gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5538512e.4b978c0a.0cf8.ffffb150@mx.google.com>

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 10:32:54 -0700
coderman <coderman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/21/15, Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/
> 
> 
> happened to my hay guy; error code and no start. only recourse is a
> certified John Deere (TM)(R) Service Agent (SM)(R)(C).
> 
> at some point, you piss off the wrong slice of the populace - you're
> fucking with the livelihood of rugged routine loving folks. 


	You think they are going to take down washington and the
	pentagon with pitchforks? =) 


> perhaps a
> DVB beam steering obfuscated dead drop in a sunk well to seed all
> tractor DMCA bypass for great justice results. who knows, (but i do
> get 93Mbps d/11Mbps up at the barn! :)
> 
> DMCA infused in your Interweb of Things a special natured dystopia ...

	
	Yep. 







From ryacko at gmail.com  Wed Apr 22 23:56:56 2015
From: ryacko at gmail.com (Ryan Carboni)
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 23:56:56 -0700
Subject: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <CAJVRA1Ta0g4dTNYA=SZSt89UMX0787KWEFSOnbqyK6Y-KJ5g5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1YkxRa-0006tE-8K@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAJVRA1Ta0g4dTNYA=SZSt89UMX0787KWEFSOnbqyK6Y-KJ5g5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO7N=i0FKsOD9oNqNyvjh2LsoA46wgyHFNYNRJWjYHUvWKW0sg@mail.gmail.com>

not a totally unreasonable amount of money...

just the size of the entire US IT budget.
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From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Apr 23 06:13:15 2015
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:13:15 +0200
Subject: detecting Quantum Insert
Message-ID: <20150423131315.GC10743@leitl.org>


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9425778




From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Apr 24 08:54:42 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 08:54:42 -0700
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
Message-ID: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>


In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
U-Left, with whirlygig on top.

http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/



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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Apr 24 11:10:34 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:10:34 -0700
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <553A871A.5020505@riseup.net>


On 04/24/2015 09:53 AM, Georgi Guninski quoted me & wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
>>
>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
>>
>>
>>
> this appears unusable without javascript 

You miss the point. CODING. Besides, I'm absofuckinglutely sure BARCLAYS
put all sorts of nasty Jscripts onsite to tamper with kid's computers.

> and/or cookies.

I didn't inspect the text bodies but their names indicate they're there
to prove you viewed their cookie policy. Besides, the intertubz wouldn't
work very well without them. (Get out much?) Use a cookie cleaner
occasionally and block 3rd party cookies. Problem solved.

>
> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
>

GhostServ or NoScript blocks it. No site NEEDS it to function correctly.




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From shelley at misanthropia.org  Fri Apr 24 11:49:51 2015
From: shelley at misanthropia.org (Shelley)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:49:51 -0700
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150424184935.F14E8C00016@frontend1.nyi.internal>

On April 24, 2015 11:39:14 AM Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com> wrote:

> We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use of 
> javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing out.

Obviously not.  But the use of such nonsense (all of which I block) will 
keep people like me from wasting time by going to the site, so I thank 
Georgi for the heads-up.

-S


> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed
> playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?
>
> "If you*re aged 7- 17
> and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
> we’d love you to
> come along to a
> coding session in branch.
>
> <There*llThere'll be tips,
> ch at llengeschallenges
> and many more things to code.
>
> >Our trained Digital Eagles
> will be there
> to help you take your
> coding skills
> <to the next level."
>
> Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
> for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.
>
> -Travis
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> > >
> > > In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> > > U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> > >
> > > http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
> >
> > not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
> | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>





From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Apr 24 13:09:52 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:09:52 -0700
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <553AA310.9000707@riseup.net>



On 04/24/2015 10:48 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed playground where opsec
> is taught to toddlers? 

Cool! We getz to sling tarballs at each other too?

Re:
> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> comes off as a bit creepy.

What kind of creeps me is the Yellow Submarine-like graphics, a
throwback to my teen years. If they REALLY want to attract kids nowdays
Miley Cyrus 1/2 nekkid Twerking gifs and Call of Duty gamergore would
probably attract more.

BTW, and OT, I think I've found the first recorded use of the word "Twerk".

Frank Zappa's tender Autumn/Spring love ballad, Magdalena. Albeit none
of the lyrics sites show that word in the song, it's plainly there if
one listens to the track.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFUOnnSF0c (incl. Dog Breath).

> There was a man
> A little ole man
> Who lived in Montreal
> With a wife and a kid
> And a car and a house
> And a teenage daughter
> With a see-thru blouse
> Who loved to TWERK (grunt) and ball-
> And her name was Magdalena
>
> Magdalena . . .
>
> The little ole man
> Came home one night
> To his house in Montreal.
> He caught his daughter
> In the blouse by the light
> And he said to himself:
> "She looks all right!"
> And he reached for a tit
> And grabbed it tight
> And threw her up
> Against the wall
> (BLUE CROSS!)
> Magdalena . . .
>
> My daughter dear,
> Do not be concerned when your
> Canadian daddy comes near.
> My daughter dear
> Do not be concerned when your
> Canadian daddy comes near.
> I work so hard,
> Don't you understand,
> Making maple syrup
> For the pancakes of our land.



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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Fri Apr 24 13:11:56 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:11:56 -0700
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <553a91af.4cc28c0a.1bad.ffffead8@mx.google.com>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$> <553A871A.5020505@riseup.net>
 <553a91af.4cc28c0a.1bad.ffffead8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <553AA38C.2070201@riseup.net>

+1

On 04/24/2015 12:00 PM, Juan wrote:
> 	children like cookies
>
>
>


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From tbiehn at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 10:48:49 2015
From: tbiehn at gmail.com (Travis Biehn)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:49 -0400
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>

We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use of
javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing out.
I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed
playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?

"If you*re aged 7- 17
and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
we’d love you to
come along to a
coding session in branch.

<There*llThere'll be tips,
ch at llengeschallenges
and many more things to code.

>Our trained Digital Eagles
will be there
to help you take your
coding skills
<to the next level."

Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.

-Travis

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >
> > In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> > U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> >
> > http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> >
> >
> >
>
> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
>
> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
>



-- 
Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
| TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
<https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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From juan.g71 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 12:00:02 2015
From: juan.g71 at gmail.com (Juan)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:00:02 -0300
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <553A871A.5020505@riseup.net>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <553A871A.5020505@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <553a91af.4cc28c0a.1bad.ffffead8@mx.google.com>


	children like cookies




From guninski at guninski.com  Fri Apr 24 09:53:28 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:53:28 +0300
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
Message-ID: <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> 
> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> 
> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> 
> 
> 

this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.

not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Apr 25 07:44:47 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:44:47 -0400
Subject: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <CAG5KPzx+oZToDewMx=5d8ia0BuY47D4or1DZ47hcZ+nncO6g6Q@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <E1YkxRa-0006tE-8K@elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <CAG5KPzx+oZToDewMx=5d8ia0BuY47D4or1DZ47hcZ+nncO6g6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1Ym1Is-0004ua-W7@elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Indeed. Inherent leakiness of digital technology is a gift of Olympus,
aka James Bidzos aka RSA. Never enough fault-rich crypto.

Digitalization might be the quintessential foolhardiness, or comsec
opportunism, which had led to endless apologies, apologias, apoplexies.

And hurrahs among investors, urging hackers and insiders to spill
secrets sufficient to assure comsec-panicky buyers. Bug bounties
hilariously, assuredly, self-defeating as backdoor warnings.

At 09:49 AM 4/25/2015, Ben Laurie wrote:
>On 22 April 2015 at 17:24, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> > Futility of trying to eliminate every single vulnerability in a given piece
> > of software.
>
>The name of the game is to protect the secrets despite bugs. And I
>don't mean with cryptography.





From tigrutigru at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 13:04:56 2015
From: tigrutigru at gmail.com (tigrutigru at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 22:04:56 +0200
Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1429977602.12636.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
References: <mailman.1.1429977602.12636.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
Message-ID: <41E6A1E5-FE2C-4873-AE7C-30BAB5EBD2E7@gmail.com>

RE: Cypherpunk Kidz

@Travis Such a good point about "yellow submarine graphics". I didn't want to reply to the whole list, just wanted to say that it's a really spot on remark.
Kids are not idiots.
I'd rather come to a Minecraft server as a kid and as an adult. There are some good MC projects for learning code. Nothing with security twist though I came across.

Barclays is cool, ok, but, I wasn't sure what it has to do with Cypherpunk Kidz - it's not so much about security and encryption? 

We're up for setting up a Minecraft server for this purpose - learn code & security. Let me know if anyone would be interested to join: I can chat about it in detail in separate thread. 
@Rysiek - any thoughts? 
Also - multiplayers so make good live streams. 





Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Apr 2015, at 6:00 pm, cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org wrote:
> 
> Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
>    cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Georgi Guninski)
>   2. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Travis Biehn)
>   3. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
>   4. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Shelley)
>   5. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Juan)
>   6. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
>   7. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
>   8. Re: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm (John Young)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:53:28 +0300
> From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <20150424165328.GA2620 at sivokote.iziade.m$>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> 
>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
>> 
>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> 
> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
> 
> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:49 -0400
> From: Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com>
> To: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID:
>    <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use of
> javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing out.
> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed
> playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?
> 
> "If you*re aged 7- 17
> and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
> we’d love you to
> come along to a
> coding session in branch.
> 
> <There*llThere'll be tips,
> ch at llengeschallenges
> and many more things to code.
> 
>> Our trained Digital Eagles
> will be there
> to help you take your
> coding skills
> <to the next level."
> 
> Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
> for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.
> 
> -Travis
> 
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>>> 
>>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
>>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
>>> 
>>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
>> 
>> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
>> 
>> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
> | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:10:34 -0700
> From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <553A871A.5020505 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> 
>> On 04/24/2015 09:53 AM, Georgi Guninski quoted me & wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
>>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
>>> 
>>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
>> this appears unusable without javascript
> 
> You miss the point. CODING. Besides, I'm absofuckinglutely sure BARCLAYS
> put all sorts of nasty Jscripts onsite to tamper with kid's computers.
> 
>> and/or cookies.
> 
> I didn't inspect the text bodies but their names indicate they're there
> to prove you viewed their cookie policy. Besides, the intertubz wouldn't
> work very well without them. (Get out much?) Use a cookie cleaner
> occasionally and block 3rd party cookies. Problem solved.
> 
>> 
>> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> 
> GhostServ or NoScript blocks it. No site NEEDS it to function correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:49:51 -0700
> From: Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>
> To: <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <20150424184935.F14E8C00016 at frontend1.nyi.internal>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
> 
>> On April 24, 2015 11:39:14 AM Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use of 
>> javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing out.
> 
> Obviously not.  But the use of such nonsense (all of which I block) will 
> keep people like me from wasting time by going to the site, so I thank 
> Georgi for the heads-up.
> 
> -S
> 
> 
>> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
>> comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed
>> playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?
>> 
>> "If you*re aged 7- 17
>> and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
>> we’d love you to
>> come along to a
>> coding session in branch.
>> 
>> <There*llThere'll be tips,
>> ch at llengeschallenges
>> and many more things to code.
>> 
>>> Our trained Digital Eagles
>> will be there
>> to help you take your
>> coding skills
>> <to the next level."
>> 
>> Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
>> for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.
>> 
>> -Travis
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
>>>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
>>>> 
>>>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
>>> 
>>> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
>>> 
>>> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <http://github.com/tbiehn>
>> | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
>> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:00:02 -0300
> From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <553a91af.4cc28c0a.1bad.ffffead8 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> 
>    children like cookies
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:09:52 -0700
> From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <553AA310.9000707 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> 
>> On 04/24/2015 10:48 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
>> Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed playground where opsec
>> is taught to toddlers?
> 
> Cool! We getz to sling tarballs at each other too?
> 
> Re:
>> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
>> comes off as a bit creepy.
> 
> What kind of creeps me is the Yellow Submarine-like graphics, a
> throwback to my teen years. If they REALLY want to attract kids nowdays
> Miley Cyrus 1/2 nekkid Twerking gifs and Call of Duty gamergore would
> probably attract more.
> 
> BTW, and OT, I think I've found the first recorded use of the word "Twerk".
> 
> Frank Zappa's tender Autumn/Spring love ballad, Magdalena. Albeit none
> of the lyrics sites show that word in the song, it's plainly there if
> one listens to the track.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFUOnnSF0c (incl. Dog Breath).
> 
>> There was a man
>> A little ole man
>> Who lived in Montreal
>> With a wife and a kid
>> And a car and a house
>> And a teenage daughter
>> With a see-thru blouse
>> Who loved to TWERK (grunt) and ball-
>> And her name was Magdalena
>> 
>> Magdalena . . .
>> 
>> The little ole man
>> Came home one night
>> To his house in Montreal.
>> He caught his daughter
>> In the blouse by the light
>> And he said to himself:
>> "She looks all right!"
>> And he reached for a tit
>> And grabbed it tight
>> And threw her up
>> Against the wall
>> (BLUE CROSS!)
>> Magdalena . . .
>> 
>> My daughter dear,
>> Do not be concerned when your
>> Canadian daddy comes near.
>> My daughter dear
>> Do not be concerned when your
>> Canadian daddy comes near.
>> I work so hard,
>> Don't you understand,
>> Making maple syrup
>> For the pancakes of our land.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:11:56 -0700
> From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> Message-ID: <553AA38C.2070201 at riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> +1
> 
>> On 04/24/2015 12:00 PM, Juan wrote:
>>    children like cookies
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:44:47 -0400
> From: John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
> To: Ben Laurie <ben at links.org>
> Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>, cryptome at freelists.org,
>    Cryptography Mailing List <cryptography at metzdowd.com>, Crypto
>    discussion list <cryptography at randombit.net>
> Subject: Re: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
> Message-ID: <E1Ym1Is-0004ua-W7 at elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> 
> Indeed. Inherent leakiness of digital technology is a gift of Olympus,
> aka James Bidzos aka RSA. Never enough fault-rich crypto.
> 
> Digitalization might be the quintessential foolhardiness, or comsec
> opportunism, which had led to endless apologies, apologias, apoplexies.
> 
> And hurrahs among investors, urging hackers and insiders to spill
> secrets sufficient to assure comsec-panicky buyers. Bug bounties
> hilariously, assuredly, self-defeating as backdoor warnings.
> 
> At 09:49 AM 4/25/2015, Ben Laurie wrote:
>>> On 22 April 2015 at 17:24, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
>>> Futility of trying to eliminate every single vulnerability in a given piece
>>> of software.
>> 
>> The name of the game is to protect the secrets despite bugs. And I
>> don't mean with cryptography.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> cypherpunks mailing list
> cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
> *******************************************




From mrjones2020 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 02:13:23 2015
From: mrjones2020 at gmail.com (J.R. Jones)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 09:13:23 +0000
Subject: cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
In-Reply-To: <41E6A1E5-FE2C-4873-AE7C-30BAB5EBD2E7@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1429977602.12636.cypherpunks@cpunks.org>
 <41E6A1E5-FE2C-4873-AE7C-30BAB5EBD2E7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDVf2KcKtq_1pqeHfRA6+pPuV=kjjhbBQU4wvL2thyaUQxvXQ@mail.gmail.com>

@tigru my 10 yr old would absolutely be interested in MC/learning to code.
Please contact me with more information if this becomes a reality.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015, 4:21 PM  <tigrutigru at gmail.com> wrote:

> RE: Cypherpunk Kidz
>
> @Travis Such a good point about "yellow submarine graphics". I didn't want
> to reply to the whole list, just wanted to say that it's a really spot on
> remark.
> Kids are not idiots.
> I'd rather come to a Minecraft server as a kid and as an adult. There are
> some good MC projects for learning code. Nothing with security twist though
> I came across.
>
> Barclays is cool, ok, but, I wasn't sure what it has to do with Cypherpunk
> Kidz - it's not so much about security and encryption?
>
> We're up for setting up a Minecraft server for this purpose - learn code &
> security. Let me know if anyone would be interested to join: I can chat
> about it in detail in separate thread.
> @Rysiek - any thoughts?
> Also - multiplayers so make good live streams.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 25 Apr 2015, at 6:00 pm, cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org wrote:
> >
> > Send cypherpunks mailing list submissions to
> >    cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >    https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >    cypherpunks-request at cpunks.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >    cypherpunks-owner at cpunks.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of cypherpunks digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Georgi Guninski)
> >   2. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Travis Biehn)
> >   3. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
> >   4. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Shelley)
> >   5. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Juan)
> >   6. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
> >   7. Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz (Razer)
> >   8. Re: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm (John Young)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:53:28 +0300
> > From: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <20150424165328.GA2620 at sivokote.iziade.m$>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >>
> >> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> >> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> >>
> >> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> >
> > this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
> >
> > not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:48:49 -0400
> > From: Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com>
> > To: Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com>
> > Cc: "cypherpunks at cpunks.org" <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use
> of
> > javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing
> out.
> > I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> > comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks
> themed
> > playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?
> >
> > "If you*re aged 7- 17
> > and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
> > we’d love you to
> > come along to a
> > coding session in branch.
> >
> > <There*llThere'll be tips,
> > ch at llengeschallenges
> > and many more things to code.
> >
> >> Our trained Digital Eagles
> > will be there
> > to help you take your
> > coding skills
> > <to the next level."
> >
> > Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
> > for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.
> >
> > -Travis
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <guninski at guninski.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> >>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> >>>
> >>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> >>
> >> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
> >>
> >> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <
> http://github.com/tbiehn>
> > | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> > <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/attachments/20150424/2945ccd1/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:10:34 -0700
> > From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <553A871A.5020505 at riseup.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> >
> >> On 04/24/2015 09:53 AM, Georgi Guninski quoted me & wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> >>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> >>>
> >>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> >> this appears unusable without javascript
> >
> > You miss the point. CODING. Besides, I'm absofuckinglutely sure BARCLAYS
> > put all sorts of nasty Jscripts onsite to tamper with kid's computers.
> >
> >> and/or cookies.
> >
> > I didn't inspect the text bodies but their names indicate they're there
> > to prove you viewed their cookie policy. Besides, the intertubz wouldn't
> > work very well without them. (Get out much?) Use a cookie cleaner
> > occasionally and block 3rd party cookies. Problem solved.
> >
> >>
> >> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> >
> > GhostServ or NoScript blocks it. No site NEEDS it to function correctly.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:49:51 -0700
> > From: Shelley <shelley at misanthropia.org>
> > To: <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <20150424184935.F14E8C00016 at frontend1.nyi.internal>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
> >
> >> On April 24, 2015 11:39:14 AM Travis Biehn <tbiehn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We're left to guess at what the point is but I doubt that Barclay's use
> of
> >> javascript, cookies and analytics platforms are what Razer is pointing
> out.
> >
> > Obviously not.  But the use of such nonsense (all of which I block) will
> > keep people like me from wasting time by going to the site, so I thank
> > Georgi for the heads-up.
> >
> > -S
> >
> >
> >> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> >> comes off as a bit creepy. Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks
> themed
> >> playground where opsec is taught to toddlers?
> >>
> >> "If you*re aged 7- 17
> >> and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,
> >> we’d love you to
> >> come along to a
> >> coding session in branch.
> >>
> >> <There*llThere'll be tips,
> >> ch at llengeschallenges
> >> and many more things to code.
> >>
> >>> Our trained Digital Eagles
> >> will be there
> >> to help you take your
> >> coding skills
> >> <to the next level."
> >>
> >> Barclay's bank, you know they're cool because they use the wrong symbols
> >> for punctuation and substitute letters for look-alike glyphs.
> >>
> >> -Travis
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Georgi Guninski <
> guninski at guninski.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 08:54:42AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In case the 'adults' here can't find it, the control 'console' is
> >>>> U-Left, with whirlygig on top.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://barclayscodeplayground.co.uk/
> >>>
> >>> this appears unusable without javascript and/or cookies.
> >>>
> >>> not to mention it uses google analytics for spam.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Twitter <https://twitter.com/tbiehn> | LinkedIn
> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/travisbiehn> | GitHub <
> http://github.com/tbiehn>
> >> | TravisBiehn.com <http://www.travisbiehn.com> | Google Plus
> >> <https://plus.google.com/+TravisBiehn>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:00:02 -0300
> > From: Juan <juan.g71 at gmail.com>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <553a91af.4cc28c0a.1bad.ffffead8 at mx.google.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> >
> >    children like cookies
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:09:52 -0700
> > From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <553AA310.9000707 at riseup.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 04/24/2015 10:48 AM, Travis Biehn wrote:
> >> Perhaps Razer would like to see a Cpunks themed playground where opsec
> >> is taught to toddlers?
> >
> > Cool! We getz to sling tarballs at each other too?
> >
> > Re:
> >> I presume that Razer is miffed at the obvious indoctrination play that
> >> comes off as a bit creepy.
> >
> > What kind of creeps me is the Yellow Submarine-like graphics, a
> > throwback to my teen years. If they REALLY want to attract kids nowdays
> > Miley Cyrus 1/2 nekkid Twerking gifs and Call of Duty gamergore would
> > probably attract more.
> >
> > BTW, and OT, I think I've found the first recorded use of the word
> "Twerk".
> >
> > Frank Zappa's tender Autumn/Spring love ballad, Magdalena. Albeit none
> > of the lyrics sites show that word in the song, it's plainly there if
> > one listens to the track.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKFUOnnSF0c (incl. Dog Breath).
> >
> >> There was a man
> >> A little ole man
> >> Who lived in Montreal
> >> With a wife and a kid
> >> And a car and a house
> >> And a teenage daughter
> >> With a see-thru blouse
> >> Who loved to TWERK (grunt) and ball-
> >> And her name was Magdalena
> >>
> >> Magdalena . . .
> >>
> >> The little ole man
> >> Came home one night
> >> To his house in Montreal.
> >> He caught his daughter
> >> In the blouse by the light
> >> And he said to himself:
> >> "She looks all right!"
> >> And he reached for a tit
> >> And grabbed it tight
> >> And threw her up
> >> Against the wall
> >> (BLUE CROSS!)
> >> Magdalena . . .
> >>
> >> My daughter dear,
> >> Do not be concerned when your
> >> Canadian daddy comes near.
> >> My daughter dear
> >> Do not be concerned when your
> >> Canadian daddy comes near.
> >> I work so hard,
> >> Don't you understand,
> >> Making maple syrup
> >> For the pancakes of our land.
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 13:11:56 -0700
> > From: Razer <Rayzer at riseup.net>
> > To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > Subject: Re: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
> > Message-ID: <553AA38C.2070201 at riseup.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > +1
> >
> >> On 04/24/2015 12:00 PM, Juan wrote:
> >>    children like cookies
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 10:44:47 -0400
> > From: John Young <jya at pipeline.com>
> > To: Ben Laurie <ben at links.org>
> > Cc: cpunks <cypherpunks at cpunks.org>, cryptome at freelists.org,
> >    Cryptography Mailing List <cryptography at metzdowd.com>, Crypto
> >    discussion list <cryptography at randombit.net>
> > Subject: Re: [cryptography] Shamir Reveals Sisyphus Algorithm
> > Message-ID: <E1Ym1Is-0004ua-W7 at elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > Indeed. Inherent leakiness of digital technology is a gift of Olympus,
> > aka James Bidzos aka RSA. Never enough fault-rich crypto.
> >
> > Digitalization might be the quintessential foolhardiness, or comsec
> > opportunism, which had led to endless apologies, apologias, apoplexies.
> >
> > And hurrahs among investors, urging hackers and insiders to spill
> > secrets sufficient to assure comsec-panicky buyers. Bug bounties
> > hilariously, assuredly, self-defeating as backdoor warnings.
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 4/25/2015, Ben Laurie wrote:
> >>> On 22 April 2015 at 17:24, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:
> >>> Futility of trying to eliminate every single vulnerability in a given
> piece
> >>> of software.
> >>
> >> The name of the game is to protect the secrets despite bugs. And I
> >> don't mean with cryptography.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cypherpunks mailing list
> > cypherpunks at cpunks.org
> > https://cpunks.org/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of cypherpunks Digest, Vol 22, Issue 38
> > *******************************************
>
>
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From bmanning at karoshi.com  Tue Apr 28 12:37:45 2015
From: bmanning at karoshi.com (manning)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:37:45 -0700
Subject: Surveillance forces journalists to think and act like spies
In-Reply-To: <BA23F759-CEEC-48C4-98D8-0B5B201D73A6@icloud.com>
References: <BA23F759-CEEC-48C4-98D8-0B5B201D73A6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <2B067723-8931-4FB0-940F-C6A4B9FDC70B@karoshi.com>

see also:   http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2015/527409/EPRS_STU(2015)527409_REV1_EN.pdf

manning
bmanning at karoshi.com
PO Box 12317
Marina del Rey, CA 90295
310.322.8102



On 28April2015Tuesday, at 4:53, Lorenz Szabo <bizdevcon at icloud.com> wrote:

> Interesting read.
> 
> Found via HackerNews on ycombinator.com. Original here https://cpj.org/x/5fdd; cleaned up ASCII version below.
> 
> ~ BizDevCon
> ___
> Austria, Vienna
> PGP: 3542726F
> 
> 
> Surveillance forces journalists to think and act like spies
> 
> April 27, 2015
> 





From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Apr 28 08:35:56 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:35:56 +0200
Subject: An intro to coding for Cypherpunk kidz
In-Reply-To: <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <553A6742.6070008@riseup.net>
 <20150424165328.GA2620@sivokote.iziade.m$>
 <CAKtE3zcX9e6d0ghYRJkZSnYDOd6C4s5Hj24suB=d7YCDmMUX5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2006459.BtdDulWIxr@lapuntu>

Dnia piątek, 24 kwietnia 2015 13:48:49 Travis Biehn pisze:
> and enjoyed Barclays Code Playground,

Ah, Barclays and their playgrounds:
http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/2013/07/first-barclays-now-lloyds/

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From rysiek at hackerspace.pl  Tue Apr 28 08:43:41 2015
From: rysiek at hackerspace.pl (rysiek)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:43:41 +0200
Subject: wth
In-Reply-To: <20150422144323.GV6914@ctrlc.hu>
References: <20150422144323.GV6914@ctrlc.hu>
Message-ID: <2958361.qVHUWxWZQO@lapuntu>

Dnia środa, 22 kwietnia 2015 16:43:23 stef pisze:
> a messenger admits its hard to do and makes a responsible decision, kudos:
> https://hemlismessenger.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/sometimes-you-understand/

WTH heml.was?

-- 
Pozdrawiam,
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak

Zmieniam klucz GPG :: http://rys.io/pl/147
GPG Key Transition :: http://rys.io/en/147
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From skquinn at rushpost.com  Tue Apr 28 23:17:45 2015
From: skquinn at rushpost.com (Shawn K. Quinn)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 01:17:45 -0500
Subject: Opinions of qwertycards.com?
Message-ID: <1430288265.3622.19.camel@moonpatrol>

https://www.qwertycards.com

Has anyone on the list tried one of these? Thoughts?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>




From l at odewijk.nl  Wed Apr 29 00:32:44 2015
From: l at odewijk.nl (=?UTF-8?Q?Lodewijk_andr=C3=A9_de_la_porte?=)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 16:32:44 +0900
Subject: Opinions of qwertycards.com?
In-Reply-To: <1430288265.3622.19.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <1430288265.3622.19.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <CAHWD2rKJ2DZSKRfZEHLCPA0yB-rByP1G+E5=RZw5dMX_sRackA@mail.gmail.com>

"The 'site name' code ensures that all of your passwords are unique. This
protects you from having all of your passwords compromised by a security
lapse on any individual website."

Totally untrue. If any of the websites has failed to do proper password
hashing (or you password is intercepted due to keylogging, bad HTTPS, bad
remote host, etc) then the security of all your passwords will be VERY low,
depending on the length of the site's name. This is because the beginning
of the password is constant, and the latter part is a (partially
discovered) substitution.

Still, for "ye olde user" this isn't that bad. Could easily be improved
with some sort of substitution-ring-scheme, where you have various
substitutions and select the substitution based upon the website's name.
Shouldn't be much more expensive, but could be a bit bulkier (or less
readable hehe).

Would've been much cooler if they had actually put a display on the thing,
and made it hash the constant key, user secret and website name together.
But the price would be higher, so Yubikeys and the like enter the picture.
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From Rayzer at riseup.net  Thu Apr 30 10:04:48 2015
From: Rayzer at riseup.net (Razer)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:04:48 -0700
Subject: How are the Baltimore riots going?
In-Reply-To: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <554260B0.50407@riseup.net>


On 04/30/2015 07:39 AM, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> How are the Baltimore riots going?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Baltimore_riots
>
>> Mandatory curfew effective April 28 – May 5 from 10pm-5am


    "The Baltimore police have murdered 109 people since 2010, and have
    paid out more than $6 million in police brutality settlements since
    2011. Now they want us to believe that ‪#‎FreddieGray‬ broke his own
    neck??!  How stupid do the Baltimore City Police think we are??!"
    (src, Brave New Films @Farcebook
    <https://www.facebook.com/bravenewfilms/posts/10152732560177016>)


Here's how the legal end is going...

The Baltimore police say they will NOT issue a report Friday as planned
<http://www.trust.org/item/20150429204111-met7y/> regarding the
death-in-detention of Freddie Gray: The report will be turned over to a
prosecutor, even as they leak 'evidence' Gray 'beat himself to death'

Snap analysis of what this means:

Baltimore’s District Attorney, like ALL court prosecutorial staff, works
for the police. The prosecutor gets to pick and choose what evidence a
Freddie Gray Grand Jury might hear, and you can be SURE the evidence
will not show the victim to be non-culpable for his own death.

Further, according to US Department of Just-Us “guidelines’
<http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/104858503374> “/Law enforcement
actions based on fear, panic, misperception or even poor judgement do
not constitute wilful conduct prosecutable under the statute/.”. Proof
of malicious intent to kill is required for a police officer’s murder
conviction in the United States, and since no one but police officers know…

Right now, the Baltimore Police department has ‘indirectly provided
evidence
<http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/04/29/police_van_passenger_says_gray_trying_to_hurt_himself.html>’
that Freddie Gray beat himself to death banging his body against the
inside if the police van he was imprisoned in. Really?

The bottom line is this… If the public demands a murder charge in the
killing of Freddie Gray, or the prosecutor hypocritically charges the
officer/(s)/ with murder, the officer/(s)/ WILL be acquitted.

Expect no justice for Freddie Gray and you won’t be disappointed.

Cribbed from my Tumblr <http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/117775814059>

My Freddie Gray tags <http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/search/Freddie+Gray>

I DO want to point out someone's response
<http://auntieimperial.tumblr.com/post/117722043579> to white folks who
say shit like “we don’t burn down our neighborhoods when we get angry,”,
b/c American Narcissistic Myopia:

> “For all those white folks who say shit like “we don’t burn down our
> neighborhoods when we get angry,” this is true… We burn other
> people’s, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Panama, Vietnam, Laos,
> Cambodia, etc/(and for that matter, plenty of black and brown
> neighborhoods in THIS country–check the history of white-on-black race
> riots before engaging your uninformed, uneducated but always running
> mouths next time…)/ You’re welcome for the clarification…” 

What the author, anti-racism author and essayist Tim Wise who wrote that
says afterwards about what needs to be done to cause any change
whatsoever in US policing gets a "+1" from me.


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From dan at geer.org  Thu Apr 30 07:31:36 2015
From: dan at geer.org (dan at geer.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:31:36 -0400
Subject: Surveillance forces journalists to think and act like spies
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:53:59 +0200."
 <BA23F759-CEEC-48C4-98D8-0B5B201D73A6@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <20150430143136.E08E422809F@palinka.tinho.net>

The advance of technology seems to be making everyone like spies
and so forth.  Hal Varian somewhat famously said that what the
rich have today everyone will want tomorrow.  I'd suggest that
what the intelligence community has today the rich will want
tomorrow.  While some like to say that the cure for objectionable
(to them) speech is more speech (by them), that does not hold true
so much in the wider world where I have concluded that the cure for
technologic threats is not more technology, but less.

--dan

{
since I'm on the record, I may as well admit it

  We Are All Intelligence Officers Now
  2014 RSA Conference, California
  http://geer.tinho.net/geer.rsa.28ii14.txt

}




From coderman at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 11:40:15 2015
From: coderman at gmail.com (coderman)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:40:15 -0700
Subject: Surveillance forces journalists to think and act like spies
In-Reply-To: <20150430143136.E08E422809F@palinka.tinho.net>
References: <BA23F759-CEEC-48C4-98D8-0B5B201D73A6@icloud.com>
 <20150430143136.E08E422809F@palinka.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <CAJVRA1Ryj_oHNtV=thwitsOoi2kCDvMFbDi1F0_6_L5=-WUDXw@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/30/15, dan at geer.org <dan at geer.org> wrote:
> The advance of technology seems to be making everyone like spies
> and so forth.

you see cyber as dual use. does same apply to spy?
 ( gotta know side channels to close the side channels ... )



> Hal Varian somewhat famously said that what the
> rich have today everyone will want tomorrow.  I'd suggest that
> what the intelligence community has today the rich will want
> tomorrow.

and the hacker has today?

bespoke a powerful antidote to pre-enabled CUSTOMS interdicted shady
shipped consumer computer and network technology. Cisco shipping
slapstick[0] is fooling nobody :)



>  While some like to say that the cure for objectionable
> (to them) speech is more speech (by them), that does not hold true
> so much in the wider world where I have concluded that the cure for
> technologic threats is not more technology, but less.

where is the robustness of decentralized in this picture Dan? we
advocate end-to-end for privacy, why no less true for end to end at
every peer in the graph?

 [ ignore the many billion dollar business models for sake of
argument, and consider long investment decentralized technology
alternatives. though market alone may determine the fate full enough,
...]

just because it is difficult and novel, it need not be foolhardy.


best regards, with anticipation to your future word
 and cryptome++ for http://geer.tinho.net/geer.rsa.28ii14.txt re-up :P



0. "Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops - Kit sent
to SmallCo of Nowheresville to avoid NSA interception profiles"
  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/




From mezger.benjamin at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 08:26:58 2015
From: mezger.benjamin at gmail.com (Ben Mezger)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 12:26:58 -0300
Subject: Perhaps good news [The Slovak Constitutional Court cancelled mass
 surveillance of citizens]
Message-ID: <CAFUJwR8VKk+PH=5qf--1OnHT5jTPQoVNJ89j4Pmu9OwjtNXtig@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.eisionline.org/index.php/sk/projekty-m-2/ochrana-sukromia/109-the-slovak-constitutional-court-cancelled-mass-surveillance-of-citizens

ASCII:

An act, which ordered large-scale mass surveillance of citizens (so called
data retention) is now history. Today the Constitutional Court of the
Slovak Republic proclaimed the mass surveillance of citizens as
unconstitutional. The decision was rendered within proceedings initiated by
30 members of the Parliament on behalf of the European Information Society
Institute (EISi), a Slovakia based think-tank.
In a non-public session, the Grand Chamber of the Constitutional Court (PL.
ÚS 10/2014) proclaimed provisions § 58(5) to (7) and § 63(6) of the
Electronic Communications Act (Act No. 351/2011 Coll.), which until now
required mobile network providers to track the communication of their
users, as well as provisions of § 116 of the Penal Code (Act No. 301/2005
Coll.) and § 76(3) of the Police Force Act (Act No. 171/1993 Coll.), which
allowed access to this data, to be in contradiction to the constitutionally
guaranteed rights of citizens to privacy and personal data. As a
consequence, these provisions lost their binding effect.

According to now invalid provisions of the Electronic Communications Act,
the providers of electronic communications were obliged to store traffic
data, localization data and data about the communicating parties for a
period of 6 months (in the case Internet, email or VoIP communication) or
for a period of 12 months (in case of other communication). Hence, data
about who, for how long, when, how and from where the communication was
made, has been stored. Data about unsuccessful calls was also stored to the
same extent. Moreover, the legal framework regulating the access to data
retention data was completely arbitrary and much more benevolent than
comparable provisions on wire-tapping.

The obligation to store data, presented, for a long time, perceivable
interference with the private life of all Slovak citizens, who were subject
to extensive surveillance irrespective of their honesty or innocence.
Although the detailed reasoning of the Court is not available yet, it is
clear, that this kind of interference with a citizen's right to privacy
will not be possible in the future.

Today's decision of the Slovak Constitutional Court confirmed that the
initiative started by EISi more than five years ago was substantiated. “The
mass surveillance of electronic communications of Slovak citizens led to
years of continual unconstitutional violations of their privacy”, stated
Ľubomír Lukič, EISi's lawyerand one of the original initiators of the
action.

The decision of the Constitutional Court of the Slovak Republic was issued
almost a year after the Court of Justice of the European Union proclaimed
the Data Retention Directive invalid in the Spring of 2014. At that time,
the Constitutional Court of Slovakia promptly reacted by suspending the
collection of data through a preliminary measure. Today, data collection
was completely cancelled.

-- 
Kind regards,

*Ben Mezger*
www.benmezger.com
GPG Public Key
<http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7C19F16D575B7C1C>
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From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Apr 30 12:14:21 2015
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:14:21 -0400
Subject: Matt Blaze Testimony on Encrytion
Message-ID: <E1Ynts0-0005XA-0Y@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Matt Blaze testified yesterday at the House hearing on encryption

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/4-29-2015-IT-Subcommittee-Hearing-on-Encryption-Blaze.pdf

Others too:

http://oversight.house.gov/hearing/encryption-technology-potential-u-s-policy-responses/




From cryptography at patrickmylund.com  Thu Apr 30 12:23:27 2015
From: cryptography at patrickmylund.com (Patrick Mylund Nielsen)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:23:27 -0400
Subject: [cryptography] Matt Blaze Testimony on Encrytion
In-Reply-To: <E1Ynts0-0005XA-0Y@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1Ynts0-0005XA-0Y@elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAEw2jfynmDzW5HkKjuyEEFVMX6h85xrQA3PqrKrhoAf8jgzXmA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:14 PM, John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote:

> Matt Blaze testified yesterday at the House hearing on encryption
>
>
> http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/4-29-2015-IT-Subcommittee-Hearing-on-Encryption-Blaze.pdf
>
> Others too:
>
>
> http://oversight.house.gov/hearing/encryption-technology-potential-u-s-policy-responses/
>
>
Highly recommend watching the video (it gets good at around 28 minutes in,
and don't worry about the length--a big chunk of the video is just a "We'll
be back momentarily" banner.)

Very sobering to see sanity almost across the board, and I at least was
surprised that there are people with computer science degrees in Congress!
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From guninski at guninski.com  Thu Apr 30 07:39:47 2015
From: guninski at guninski.com (Georgi Guninski)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 17:39:47 +0300
Subject: How are the Baltimore riots going?
Message-ID: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>

How are the Baltimore riots going?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Baltimore_riots

> Mandatory curfew effective April 28 – May 5 from 10pm-5am




From griffin at cryptolab.net  Thu Apr 30 17:57:59 2015
From: griffin at cryptolab.net (Griffin Boyce)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 20:57:59 -0400
Subject: How are the Baltimore riots going?
In-Reply-To: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <1f0b8c1f7d7abd3695cb8313e4d3eef2@cryptolab.net>

Georgi Guninski wrote:
> How are the Baltimore riots going?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Baltimore_riots
> 
>> Mandatory curfew effective April 28 – May 5 from 10pm-5am

Aloha from Baltimore,

   The protests have been peaceful of late, and actually fairly peaceful 
overall.  The police, however, have not been.  Despite claiming to be 
basically terrified of black people congregating in large groups, 
Baltimore cops killed another unarmed man two days ago.  Earlier this 
week, I got trapped in DC overnight due to the curfew, and last night my 
boyfriend got trapped at my place despite living a block away.  I've got 
video of a hundred or so soldiers marching through the streets near the 
train station as the curfew takes effect (out of hundreds that did so).

   Last night, my kid sister had to come home at 10:10 and it was the 
first time that I've been worried about her safety since she's lived 
with me.  Because she's a minor, the curfew means that she's not even 
legally allowed outside for any reason without me present [0].  Not to 
go to a friend's house, or to grab a cup of coffee, or to volunteer.  
Because I'm her guardian, I of course have given her permission to do 
all of those things because Fuck That Noise [1].  But we're also about 
to make our exit because living under helicopter noise with cops driving 
around in vehicles that have gun turrets on them is not great for the 
psyche, and no kid should have to live in that environment.

~Griffin

[0] kids these days with their skinny jeans and their police state
[1] one of the many benefits of having a weird-hair hacker for a parent

-- 
“Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.”
― Dr. Seuss




From grarpamp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 23:51:24 2015
From: grarpamp at gmail.com (grarpamp)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 02:51:24 -0400
Subject: How are the Baltimore riots going?
In-Reply-To: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
References: <20150430143947.GA2661@sivokote.iziade.m$>
Message-ID: <CAD2Ti2_To=C330zU45XPHXrTxMew0xi1xFOCmmMx04zhtQ1t1A@mail.gmail.com>

>> Mandatory curfew

un-Constitutional and un-UDHR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PaoLy7PHwk

Yo Flava... what time is it?




From jdb10987 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 30 20:45:22 2015
From: jdb10987 at yahoo.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 03:45:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Opinions of qwertycards.com?
In-Reply-To: <1430288265.3622.19.camel@moonpatrol>
References: <1430288265.3622.19.camel@moonpatrol>
Message-ID: <343971346.200506.1430451922341.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I doubt whether anyone who regularly posts on CP would admit to using their system.It would make _a_bit_ more sense if a person appended a fixed randomized string (of their OWN construction, one that nobody else knows...) to their usual password, perhaps AFTER ALSO customizing that password using the name of the website too.  However, it would certainly be questionable to advertise this randomized string on a keyboard.  Perhaps an array of characters, which only the user knew what portion to employ.  (Right/left, Up/down, diagonal, etc.)Depends on the threat model, of course.                 Jim Bell
      From: Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>
 To: cypherpunks at cpunks.org 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:17 PM
 Subject: Opinions of qwertycards.com?
   
https://www.qwertycards.com

Has anyone on the list tried one of these? Thoughts?

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn <skquinn at rushpost.com>



  
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From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Apr 30 14:39:06 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 07:39:06 +1000
Subject: any going to Nepal?
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSR3C1KC+dWdgqM3NkqAiJPXhG_wsmys8C1ZsAj9p7zoXA@mail.gmail.com>

To help establish new mobile base stations, internet network, etc?

Ham radios are being used right now, but longer term there's lots of
tourist dollars that need mobile phone homes and connections, along
with the rest.

If you work ok with others, are able to travel and passionate for our
collective future, perhaps now is a moment.

I dunno where else to send this email. I tried searching for libre
mobile base station (thought there was some project in that regards)
but found only gnuradio.

Carpe diem.




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Apr 30 14:40:40 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 07:40:40 +1000
Subject: any going to Nepal?
In-Reply-To: <CAOsGNSR3C1KC+dWdgqM3NkqAiJPXhG_wsmys8C1ZsAj9p7zoXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOsGNSR3C1KC+dWdgqM3NkqAiJPXhG_wsmys8C1ZsAj9p7zoXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSTnBoryjQgz4oW0r=y1q=-cc0r510XK05HDRoKgbAe-+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Found it:
http://openbsc.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/OsmocomOverview




From zen at freedbms.net  Thu Apr 30 17:21:24 2015
From: zen at freedbms.net (Zenaan Harkness)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 10:21:24 +1000
Subject: any going to Nepal?
In-Reply-To: <op.xxxh44sbbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
References: <CAOsGNSR3C1KC+dWdgqM3NkqAiJPXhG_wsmys8C1ZsAj9p7zoXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <op.xxxh44sbbgbjo9@work-pc.lan>
Message-ID: <CAOsGNSQvDwLo=gzgPG_ZTDo8wWEb1N-oOWnXiRQgeBwA-BHLJA@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/1/15, Seth <list at sysfu.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:39:06 -0700, Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> wrote:
>> I dunno where else to send this email. I tried searching for libre
>> mobile base station (thought there was some project in that regards)
>> but found only gnuradio.
>
> A few other mailing lists you might hit up:
>
> diy-isp at lists.ffdn.org
> tech at openwireless.org
> autonomous-discuss at gnu.org

Done. Thanks.