From arma at mit.edu  Fri Oct  1 00:19:44 2004
From: arma at mit.edu (Roger Dingledine)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 03:19:44 -0400
Subject: Tor 0.0.9pre1 is out
Message-ID: <mailman.1035.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

We've fixed quite a few bugs. We've also added compression for
directories, and client-side directory caching on disk so you'll have
a directory when Tor restarts.

tarball:   http://freehaven.net/tor/dist/tor-0.0.9pre1.tar.gz
signature: http://freehaven.net/tor/dist/tor-0.0.9pre1.tar.gz.asc
(use -dPr tor-0_0_9pre1 if you want to check out from cvs)

Changes from 0.0.8:
  o Bugfixes:
    - Stop using separate defaults for no-config-file and
      empty-config-file. Now you have to explicitly turn off SocksPort,
      if you don't want it open.
    - Fix a bug in OutboundBindAddress so it (hopefully) works.
    - Improve man page to mention more of the 0.0.8 features.
    - Fix a rare seg fault for people running hidden services on
      intermittent connections.
    - Change our file IO stuff (especially wrt OpenSSL) so win32 is
      happier.
    - Fix more dns related bugs: send back resolve_failed and end cells
      more reliably when the resolve fails, rather than closing the
      circuit and then trying to send the cell. Also attach dummy resolve
      connections to a circuit *before* calling dns_resolve(), to fix
      a bug where cached answers would never be sent in RESOLVED cells.
    - When we run out of disk space, or other log writing error, don't
      crash. Just stop logging to that log and continue.
    - We were starting to daemonize before we opened our logs, so if
      there were any problems opening logs, we would complain to stderr,
      which wouldn't work, and then mysteriously exit.
    - Fix a rare bug where sometimes a verified OR would connect to us
      before he'd uploaded his descriptor, which would cause us to
      assign conn->nickname as though he's unverified. Now we look through
      the fingerprint list to see if he's there.
    - Fix a rare assert trigger, where routerinfos for entries in
      our cpath would expire while we're building the path.

  o Features:
    - Clients can ask dirservers for /dir.z to get a compressed version
      of the directory. Only works for servers running 0.0.9, of course.
    - Make clients cache directories and use them to seed their router
      lists at startup. This means clients have a datadir again.
    - Configuration infrastructure support for warning on obsolete
      options.
    - Respond to content-encoding headers by trying to uncompress as
      appropriate.
    - Reply with a deflated directory when a client asks for "dir.z".
      We could use allow-encodings instead, but allow-encodings isn't
      specified in HTTP 1.0.
    - Raise the max dns workers from 50 to 100.
    - Discourage people from setting their dirfetchpostperiod more often
      than once per minute
    - Protect dirservers from overzealous descriptor uploading -- wait
      10 seconds after directory gets dirty, before regenerating.

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct  1 06:07:42 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:07:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: "ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"
Message-ID: <9215533.1096636063534.JavaMail.root@daisy.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 30, 2004 5:06 PM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: "ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"

...
>For instance, is it indeed possible that revealing this rule would pose an 
>additional security risk? If such a rule exists (and it does) then hijackers 
>obviously already know about it. Could this rule also reveal some deeper 
>secrets about how hijackers can be detected? I seriously doubt it.

One possibility raised by Dan Simon (I think) on Eric Rescorla's excellent blog is that the rule is part of some monthly briefing that is sent out, which might include some kind of information they'd rather not have published, e.g., "be especially careful about anyone carrying a guitar case; we've heard rumors about using one to bring a Tommy gun onboard."  

>Then of course, the argument may be that the government wanted to hide the 
>rule for the very reason of making it more unassailable. In other words, if 
>the rule were known, then it might be more easily contested in court. Hiding 
>the rule protects the law which in turn protects national security.

Maybe.  I guess the thing that's confusing about any of these answers is that the rules as they're applied must be propogated to thousands of people.  It's not like they could easily hide guidance like "no more than 10 Arabs per flight" or "double-screen anyone with brown skin and a Koran"--someone would leak it.  Perhaps the written rules include things like this that they don't want to subject to court scrutiny, but then how do they get that down to the people doing the screening at the gate?  

The whole idea of laws that the citizens aren't allowed to see just sounds like something you'd expect in some godawful third-world dictatorship, not in the US.  

>-TD

--John Kelsey




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  1 06:43:30 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:43:30 -0400
Subject: "ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"
Message-ID: <BAY24-F34EEs5VFFy8P0001e664@hotmail.com>

John Kelsey wrote...

>Maybe.  I guess the thing that's confusing about any of these answers is 
>that the rules as they're >applied must be propogated to thousands of 
>people.  It's not like they could easily hide guidance >like "no more than 
>10 Arabs per flight" or "double-screen anyone with brown skin and a 
>Koran"-->someone would leak it.  Perhaps the written rules include things 
>like this that they don't want to >subject to court scrutiny, but then how 
>do they get that down to the people doing the screening >at the gate?

That's a good point. And those screeners ain't exactly the cream of the 
crop, if ya' know what I mean. A year ago they were making minimum wage, so 
if someone wanted a copy of those guidelines, it'd be easy as hell to con it 
out of one of em. (INVOKE SPIRIT OF TIM MAY HERE)...dress all official-like 
with a clipboard and some random badge, and start quizzing the locals about 
the current rules. Maybe that wouldn't work at JFK, but go to the airport 
at, say, Lexington So Carolina or Bumfuck Idaho and you'd get the 
information faster than a hillbilly can skin a possum for dinner.

So no way they could keep such a big secret, and I would suspect that the 
Brazil-factor is not so great that the TSA doesn't already know that.

I think you may be onto something w.r.t the Profiling issue. That may have 
more to do with it than anything. In other words, they don't want the thing 
contested in court, and the powers that be may not want to be personally 
liable.

So in other words, this law is basically secret so that it can be secret. If 
nothing else, the Iraq WMD debacle should teach that they really don't have 
some deep, secret and "justifiable" information.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 07:10:39 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:10:39 -0400
Subject: ShmooCon. 2005. No moose. We swear.
Message-ID: <p06110479bd8315ae4f15@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.shmoocon.org/about.html>

ShmooCon.  2005.  No moose.  We swear.

 ShmooCon will be an all-new, annual East coast hacker convention hell-bent
on offering an interesting and new atmosphere for demonstrating technology
exploitation, inventive software & hardware solutions, as well as open
discussion of critical information security issues.  The first annual
ShmooCon will be held February 4-6 2005, at the Wardman Park Marriott
Hotel, in Washington, D.C., just minutes from your choice of overly-curious
3-letter agencies.  So register early to keep the feds from taking up all
the space.

ShmooCon will be a different breed of security convention.

 In a nutshell, over three days, there are three tracks:

 "Break It!" - a track dedicated to the demonstration of  techniques,
software, and devices devised with only one purpose in mind--technology
exploitation.  You will bear witness to some of the most devious minds,
source code, and gadgets on the planet that focus their energies on
breaking the technology we mindless sheep keep on buying.  Baaaaa.

 "Build It!" - a track that showcases inventive software & hardware
solutions--from distributed computing or stealth p2p networks to miniature
form-factor community wireless network node hardware or robotics even.  Let
loose your inner geek, and feel free to gawk.  With all the neat stuff,
it's important to take notes--that way we all have evidence to shoot down
some sleazeball patents 5 years from now.

 "BoF It!" - a track that promotes the open discussion of critical
information security issues in a "birds of a feather" format.  From
lightning open source code audits or wireless insecurity discussion panels
to DRM rants or anonymity & privacy strategies--it's down and dirty, with
plenty of controversy for folks who like hashing it out with fellow
hackers.  Feel free to throw your Shmooball here, but no fisticuffs,
please.  Settle your differences at Hack-or-Halo in the evening, instead.

ShmooCon will be thought provoking.

 Naturally, with one entire track dedicated to getting similar minds in one
room to openly discuss interesting topics, and with each topic discussion
being chaired by one or more intensely involved experts in that particular
field, people who attend ShmooCon are bound to give the muscle between
their ears a good workout.  You see, that's a key goal of this
conference--to get people thinking.  Whether it's thinking about the
future, thinking outside the box, thinking about where some of your freedom
has run off to, or perhaps rethinking that uber-secure .gov architecture
you just paid 5 million dollars to deploy that actually blows some serious
swiss-cheese chunks--it's high time you contributed some CPU cycles to your
own cause and future existence.  And once you start thinking, or hell,
maybe even before you start thinking, you can open your mouth and start
gabbing with people that have the same concerns and interests as you.  Get
your two cents in, and pick up a lifetime's worth of experience and
knowledge in return from the people around you.

ShmooCon will be entertaining.

 We might not have DefCon debauchery, but we heavily stress the might part
of that.  Damn near anything could happen when nearly a thousand hackers
descend upon the nation's capital.  While the Winter chill is sure to keep
most folks clothing on, the bar-crawls, club dancing, Hack-or-Halo
tournament, WLAN Bash 4 Cash, Shmooball violence, and unsanctioned attempts
at penetrating the 100+ .gov or Beltway Bandit wireless networks within 5
miles should make for quite an interesting time.  We've even convinced the
NFL to have the big game that weekend, so you and your buds can immediately
follow up the convention watching terribly expensive and mind-numbing
commercials while you try compiling all the cool code that was presented
earlier in the day.

ShmooCon will be affordable.

 As you can see, we're certainly not spending money on a web developer, but
don't be fooled by our l33t html Fu, ShmooCon is about high-quality without
the high price.  If you wait to register until the last minute, oh yeah,
you're going to pay out the ass--$250, in fact.  However, if you're not a
fed that has to wait until next fiscal year to get permission from your
mommy, daddy, and Uncle Sam, and you positively know that you are going to
ShmooCon, then we're down with that, as it were.  And so is the
cost--ShmooCon is $99 for anyone who registers before September 30, 2004! 
Aww, just shy of the new fiscal year, see?  No, we're not sorry for the
feds.  They can afford full price--have you seen your paycheck lately? 
Uncle Sam and cousin FICA could pay for ALL of us to go to ShmooCon, but
nooooooo.  Regardless, space IS limited, so register before the feds do.

 Can't afford $99?  Check out the call for papers!  Selected speakers AND
alternates get free admission to ShmooCon!

ShmooCon will be accessible.

 Well, except for our West coast friends.  Doh.  ShmooCon will be at the
Wardman Park Marriott Hotel in Washington, D.C., just a few steps from a
Metro stop.  That means you can catch a train from New York, Boston, or
Philadelphia to Union Station, hop on the D.C. Metro, and voila, you're
there.  Or, if you intend to fly, you can land at Reagan National, wave to
the good guys in uniform manning the mobile rocket launchers, grab a cab OR
hop on the D.C. Metro, and you'll be at ShmooCon before you know it.

 Can't afford to fly?  Submit your own !  The overall winner gets free
admission AND airfare from anywhere in the continental U.S. to ShmooCon
2005!

 So check out the site, keep visiting for news and schedule updates, and
tell your friends to register their asses for ShmooCon ASAP.  It's going to
be a blast, and we can't wait to see you there!


news


about


registration


cfp


program


schedule


location


sponsors


links






contact us . privacy policy
 )2004, The Shmoo Group




-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 07:11:29 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:11:29 -0400
Subject: Call for Papers: ShmooCon. 2005. No moose. We swear.
Message-ID: <p06110478bd83154a37a2@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.shmoocon.org/cfp.html>

 Washington, D.C.

 Call for Papers [PDF]

 http://www.shmoocon.org

 The Shmoo Group is soliciting papers and presentations for the first
annual ShmooCon. ShmooCon 2005 will be a highly-technical and entertaining
East coast hacker convention focused on technology exploitation, inventive
software and hardware solutions, as well as open discussion on a variety of
technology and security topics. ShmooCon 2005 will be held on February 4-6,
2005 at the Wardman Park Marriott in Washington, D.C., just minutes from
your choice of 3-letter agencies.

 ShmooCon 2005 will have three tracks, each dedicated to the following:
 Break It! - Technology Exploitation
 Build It! - Inventive Software and Hardware Solutions
 BoF It! - Open Discussion of Technology and Security Topics

 Topics for the "Break It!" track may include, but are not limited to,
EXPLOITATION of:
 - Consumer electronic devices
 - Application, host, and network security
 - Telephony
 - Physical security

 Topics for the "Build It!" track may include, but are not limited to,
inventive software and hardware SOLUTIONS in:
 - Robotics
 - Distributed computing
 - Community wireless networking
 - Mobile personal computing

 Topics for the "BoF It!" track may include, but are not limited to, open
DISCUSSION of the following:
 - Privacy and anonymity
 - Exploit and vulnerability disclosure / databases
 - DRM (Digital Rights Management), fair use, copyright infringement
 - Open source software world domination strategies

 Presentation Format
 All presentations and discussions will be 55 minutes in length.
Presentations in the "Break It!" and "Build It!" tracks must include
demonstrations of personally developed techniques, working code, and/or
devices, with code and/or schematics being open-source and released to the
public for free. Initiating an open discussion for "BoF It!" requires
subject matter expertise, active involvement with the topic at hand, and a
brief presentation of the topic/problem scope.

 Shmooballs will be issued to the audience, to facilitate a frank and open
discussion of opinions. Speakers are encouraged to present innovative ideas
that not everyone agrees with.

 Submission Procedure
 To submit, email cfp at shmoocon.org with the following information:
 1. Speaker name(s) and/or handle(s)
 2. Presentation Title
 3. Track preference
 4. Two to three paragraph presentation description and/or outline
 5. List facilities required. Projector for use with VGA input, flipchart,
sound projection, Internet connectivity will be provided.
 6. Speaker bio
 7. Contact info for speaker (email AND mobile number, please)

 Accepted speakers will receive free admission to the conference, as well
as a $100 honorarium after evaluation of their completed presentation. 6
runner-ups will receive free admission as hot-alternates. They should come
to ShmooCon 2005 prepared to speak, and, if it becomes necessary for them
to speak as an alternate, they too will receive a $100 honorarium after
evaluation of their completed presentation. NOTE: select presentation
submissions which are not accepted will be awarded a 50% discounted
admission to ShmooCon 2005. Presentations must be designed to include
source code, schematics, or other substantial details that demonstrate the
topic being discussed.

 Presentation proposals will be reviewed by members of the Shmoo Group. A
list of the reviewers will be posted on the ShmooCon 2005 web site when the
Call For Papers is formally issued.

 If you feel you have a presentation that would be appropriate but that
does not meet these guidelines, feel free to submit it anyway but be sure
to include a cover letter explaining your reasoning so we can evaluate your
proposal.

 All questions regarding this call for papers should be addressed to
cfp at shmoocon.org.

 Schedule
 Check the web site for final dates
 July 30, 2004 CFP opens
 Early Fall 2004 papers for preferential first round consideration due
 Middle Fall 2004 final due date for all papers
 Late Fall 2004 speakers notified

 Submissions are due by late fall 2004. Preference will be given to
submissions received by early fall 2004. Selected speakers will be notified
by Halloween, 2004. We look forward to receiving your submissions as well
as seeing you at ShmooCon 2005!

 ShmooCON 2005 CFP 1.0 RC6


news


about


registration


cfp


program


schedule


location


sponsors


links






contact us . privacy policy
 )2004, The Shmoo Group




-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From hal at finney.org  Fri Oct  1 10:11:38 2004
From: hal at finney.org (Hal Finney)
Date: Fri,  1 Oct 2004 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Federal program to monitor everyone on the road
Message-ID: <20041001171138.B8E7457E2A@finney.org>

There was a brief mention of this technology at the Crypto conference.
I provided some pointers in a comment to an Ed Felten blog entry at
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/archives/000677.html#comments (scroll
down to the 3rd comment).

Dan Boneh et al presented a proposal for a group signature scheme so that
the data collected would not be personally identifiable.  The problem is
that the data needs to be authenticated, otherwise rogue transmitters
could send false data and perhaps cause traffic flow problems or even
serious accidents.  So they want to use some cryptographic method.
Putting a common key in the whole system would make it too easy for
rogues to get access to, would be unrevocable, and we are back to the
rogue transmitter problem.  Using individual certified keys is the
default solution but has privacy problems: everyone would be constantly
transmitting a cryptographically verifiable record of their driving
patterns, speed, lane changing and who knows what else.

With the group signature, everybody has a unique key but their
transmissions are not bound to that key.  And if a key gets scraped
out and goes rogue, it can be revoked.  This is supposed to provide
flexibility, authentication, and privacy.

In practice I am skeptical that society will choose to protect privacy at
the expense of security.  One optional feature of group signatures is a
trusted party who can penetrate the anonymity and learn the identity of
the author of a particular message.  I suspect that any vehicle based
embedded communications system will retain that capability, a sort of
"license plate" in the virtual realm.  The ability to track the paths of
bank robbers and terrorists would be too inviting for society to give up,
especially if the data is only available to government agents.

Hal




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Fri Oct  1 07:22:08 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 01 Oct 2004 10:22:08 -0400
Subject: "ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F34EEs5VFFy8P0001e664@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F34EEs5VFFy8P0001e664@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1096640528.15664.184.camel@daft>

Talking out his ass, Tyler Durden wrote:

> That's a good point. And those screeners ain't exactly the cream of the 
> crop, if ya' know what I mean. A year ago they were making minimum wage, so 
> if someone wanted a copy of those guidelines, it'd be easy as hell to con it 
> out of one of em. (INVOKE SPIRIT OF TIM MAY HERE)...dress all official-like 
> with a clipboard and some random badge, and start quizzing the locals about 
> the current rules. Maybe that wouldn't work at JFK, but go to the airport 
> at, say, Lexington So Carolina or Bumfuck Idaho and you'd get the 
> information faster than a hillbilly can skin a possum for dinner.

Have you ever done penetration testing? It would be harder at a small
airport because the people all know each other. It's the larger
organizations in which you're able to cloak yourself in anonymity.

You are correct, however, in your characterization of the screeners.
Sheesh, what a bunch of mouth-breathing imbeciles and petty thieves. I
haven't flown since 2001, but I bring people to NYC airports frequently,
and am always impressed with TSA's level of professionalism. Not
favorably impressed, mind you, but impressed.




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 07:32:42 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:32:42 -0400
Subject: Suit complicates First Data's move to cut porn tie
Message-ID: <p06110483bd831ab87d8d@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~2438413,00.html>


 DenverPost.com - BUSINESS

Friday, October 1, 2004
 Denver, CO


 Article Published: Friday, October 01, 2004

 Suit complicates First Data's move to cut porn tie

By Aldo Svaldi
 Denver Post Staff Writer

 First Data Corp. says it has sworn off porn, but a lawsuit could
complicate the Greenwood Village company's efforts to cut its ties to the
lucrative industry.

 First Data stopped payment processing for Internet Billing Co. after its
contract with First Data expired Sept. 15. Internet Billing is a Florida
company that Forbes.com describes as one of the country's largest middlemen
between Internet porn sites and banks.

 "First Data regularly evaluates its lines of business to ensure they are a
good fit for the company," the company said in a statement. "We have
determined that processing payments of the adult entertainment marketplace
is inconsistent with our core values."

 Internet Billing, also known as iBill, filed a lawsuit two days later
against the company and asked a New York state court to force First Data to
work with it until it could switch to a new processor in November.



 The court denied iBill's request. Internet Billing did not respond to an
interview request.

 Penthouse International purchased the company in March for $23.5 million.

 First Data, which in the past has kept its involvement with the adult
entertainment industry quiet, said it had given iBill plenty of notice the
contract was ending.

 "First Data provided iBill with multiple notices that its contract would
not be extended after expiration," the company said.

 First Data has been terminating all of its contracts with adult
entertainment providers as they expire, a spokeswoman said.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 07:40:34 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:40:34 -0400
Subject: Patriot Act Misinformation
Message-ID: <p0611048ebd831cc2f7dd@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109659214177033379,00.html>

The Wall Street Journal


 October 1, 2004

 REVIEW & OUTLOOK


Patriot Act Misinformation
October 1, 2004; Page A14

The American Civil Liberties Union has been spinning its victory in a
federal court in New York this week as a blow against the USA Patriot Act.
One typical headline: "Federal Judge Calls Patriot Act Secret Searches
Unconstitutional." An ACLU press release hails the decision as "a landmark
victory against the Ashcroft Justice Department."

Well, no. If reporters had bothered to read Judge Victor Marrero's
decision, they would have learned that the law he actually struck down was
a provision of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986. Section
2709 authorizes the FBI to issue "National Security Letters" to obtain
information from wire communications companies about their subscribers.
NSLs are issued secretly and the recipient is prohibited from notifying
anyone about the request.

As Judge Marrero noted in his ruling, "Section 2790 has been available to
the FBI since 1986." He concludes that there must have been "hundreds" of
NSLs issued since that time. The Patriot Act did amend Section 2790, but
that amendment has nothing to do with the part that Judge Marrero says is
unconstitutional.

One more thing: The Electronics Communications Act was not the invention of
John Ashcroft. It was sponsored by that famous and menacing right-winger,
Vermont Senator Patrick Leahy, who said at the time that Section 2790
"provides a clear procedure for access to telephone toll records in
counterintelligence investigations."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Fri Oct  1 01:46:39 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:46:39 +0200
Subject: Tor 0.0.9pre1 is out (fwd from arma@mit.edu)
Message-ID: <20041001084639.GG1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Roger Dingledine <arma at mit.edu> -----


From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct  1 11:59:40 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:59:40 -0700
Subject: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F39Lwy5scK8t80001aabb@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F39Lwy5scK8t80001aabb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200410020618.i926IOIZ025986@positron.jfet.org>

At 05:12 PM 9/30/2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

>What's a "quantum repeater" in this context?

It's also known as a "wiretap insertion point"...

 > As for "Hype Watch", I tend to agree, but I also believe that Gelfond
 > (who I spoke to last year) actually does have a 'viable' system.
 > Commerically viable is another thing entirely, however.

"Practical" implies that there's a crossover point between
cost and benefit and that implementation is on the "benefit" side.

Implementation may now be possible, and the costs may be lower
than their previous infinite value, but the main benefits I see are
public relations hype to impress the rubes and protect against
zero-day exploits against Diffie-Hellman or Cisco IOS.
But you could protect against the Cisco exploits just as easily
with a conventional-key encryption hardware box,
and you wouldn't need contiguous fiber.




From sunder at sunder.net  Fri Oct  1 10:03:12 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:03:12 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Federal program to monitor everyone on the road
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410011252520.12162@silkworth.sunder.net>

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/01/federal_program_to_m.html

 Federal program to monitor everyone on the road

Interesting article about the Fed's plans to develop an all-knowing 
intelligent highway system.

    Most people have probably never heard of the agency, called the 
Intelligent Transportation Systems Joint Program Office. And they haven't 
heard of its plans to add another dimension to our national road system, 
one that uses tracking and sensor technology to erase the lines between 
cars, the road and the government transportation management centers from 
which every aspect of transportation will be observed and managed.

    For 13 years, a powerful group of car manufacturers, technology 
companies and government interests has fought to bring this system to 
life. They envision a future in which massive databases will track the 
comings and goings of everyone who travels by car or mass transit. The 
only way for people to evade the national transportation tracking system 
they're creating will be to travel on foot. Drive your car, and your every 
movement could be recorded and archived. The federal government will know 
the exact route you drove to work, how many times you braked along the 
way, the precise moment you arrived -- and that every other Tuesday you 
opt to ride the bus.


Link to actual story: http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/news_cover.html

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 11:55:46 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:55:46 -0400
Subject: 'Frustrated' U.S. Cybersecurity Chief Abruptly Resigns
Message-ID: <p061104a8bd835883f962@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.local6.com/print/3776699/detail.html?use=print>

local6.com

'Frustrated' U.S. Cybersecurity Chief Abruptly Resigns

POSTED: 11:32 AM EDT October 1, 2004
WASHINGTON -- The government's cybersecurity chief has abruptly resigned
after one year with the Department of Homeland Security, confiding to
industry colleagues his frustration over what he considers a lack of
attention paid to computer security issues within the agency.

 Amit Yoran, a former software executive from Symantec Corp., informed the
White House about his plans to quit as director of the National Cyber
Security Division and made his resignation effective at the end of
Thursday, effectively giving a single's day notice of his intentions to
leave.

 Yoran said Friday he "felt the timing was right to pursue other
opportunities." It was unclear immediately who might succeed him even
temporarily. Yoran's deputy is Donald "Andy" Purdy, a former senior adviser
to the White House on cybersecurity issues.

 Yoran has privately described frustrations in recent months to colleagues
in the technology industry, according to lobbyists who recounted these
conversations on condition they not be identified because the talks were
personal.

 As cybersecurity chief, Yoran and his division - with an $80 million
budget and 60 employees - were responsible for carrying out dozens of
recommendations in the Bush administration's "National Strategy to Secure
Cyberspace," a set of proposals to better protect computer networks.

 Yoran's position as a director -- at least three steps beneath Homeland
Security Secretary Tom Ridge -- has irritated the technology industry and
even some lawmakers. They have pressed unsuccessfully in recent months to
elevate Yoran's role to that of an assistant secretary, which could mean
broader authority and more money for cybersecurity issues.

 "Amit's decision to step down is unfortunate and certainly will set back
efforts until more leadership is demonstrated by the Department of Homeland
Security to solve this problem," said Paul Kurtz, a former cybersecurity
official on the White House National Security Council and now head of the
Washington-based Cyber Security Industry Alliance, a trade group.

 Under Yoran, Homeland Security established an ambitious new cyber alert
system, which sends urgent e-mails to subscribers about major virus
outbreaks and other Internet attacks as they occur, along with detailed
instructions to help computer users protect themselves.

 It also mapped the government's universe of connected electronic devices,
the first step toward scanning them systematically for weaknesses that
could be exploited by hackers or foreign governments. And it began
routinely identifying U.S. computers and networks that were victims of
break-ins.

 Yoran effectively replaced a position once held by Richard Clarke, a
special adviser to President Bush, and Howard Schmidt, who succeeded Clarke
but left government during the formation of the Department of Homeland
Security to work as chief security officer at eBay Inc.

 Yoran cofounded Riptech Inc. of Alexandria, Va., in March 1998, which
monitored government and corporate computers around the world with an
elaborate sensor network to protect against attacks. He sold the firm in
July 2002 to Symantec for $145 million and stayed on as vice president for
managed security services.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct  1 17:04:49 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:04:49 -0700
Subject: Suit complicates First Data's move to cut porn tie
In-Reply-To: <p06110483bd831ab87d8d@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <415D8E31.23299.1146DC45@localhost>

    --
On 1 Oct 2004 at 10:32, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>  First Data has been terminating all of its contracts with 
>  adult entertainment providers as they expire, a spokeswoman
>  said.

Way back at the beginning, cypherpunks said that the internet 
could result in alarming loss of privacy, or alarming 
improvement in privacy.  As events turned out, it went to 
alarming loss of privacy, as Bill Gates, Oliver North and the 
porn sites have discovered.

The problem is not irreversible.  If Oliver North had consulted 
a ten year old, the kid probably would have told him how to 
make sure his emails were really deleted.

I would have thought that the anti-trust debacle would have 
inspired Bill Gates to give higher priority to privacy 
preserving software.

Now that we finally see potential threats becoming real, 
perhaps people will, eventually, belatedly, start covering 
themselves from these threats. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     OLPBj3P5+a0AMi3yjd+CWMKIt31RADZCuotKF/Ih
     4pWB1qcPC2GT4Gah22MCAlXN4mbYb7039CZzAK4UZ




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 16:04:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:04:35 -0400
Subject: How small towns are reversing a century of corporate personhood
Message-ID: <p0611043abd8385758251@[66.149.49.5]>

Mopping off the leftist drivel from the facts below, :-), the idea of
abolishing the personhood of corporations, as a step towards freeing
enterprise from the claws of the state, is a very attractive idea. A
limited partnership can get the same results, without the "artifical
person" nonsense.

Financial cryptography actually has solutions in this regard, of course,
with bearer equity, anonymous voting, m-of-n key sharing, etc.

By way of a Google cache. Sue me.

Cheers,
RAH
-------

<http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:vfcFKfyJ3qYJ:www.sevendaysvt.com/-thisweek/feat/03.html+seven+days+newspaper+%22bad+company%22&hl=en>

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http://www.sevendaysvt.com/-thisweek/feat/03.html as retrieved on Sep 24,
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v


Bad Company?

How small towns are teversing a century of corporate personhood

STORY:
 KEN PICARD

Tom Linzey speaks at Vermont Law School, South Royalton, Thursday,
September 30 at 12:45 & 7 p.m.

Image: Tim Newcomb

Porter Township in northwestern Pennsyl-vania was an unlikely hotbed for an
anti-corporate uprising. The tiny rural community about an hour north of
Pittsburgh has a population of only 1500 people, many of whom are staunch
Republicans with deeply-held conservative values.

But after the Alcosan Corporation, a Pennsylvania sewage-sludge hauler,
threatened to sue Porter Township in 2002 for passing a local ordinance
regulating the dumping of sludge in their community, town officials decided
that their citizens had taken enough crap from corporations. Literally. So
on December 9, 2002, Porter became the first municipality in the United
States to pass a law denying corporations their rights as "persons" under
the law. Weeks later, Licking Township, another rural Pennsylvania
community facing a similar lawsuit, passed a more expansive ordinance
revoking all constitutional rights of corporations within their
jurisdiction.

Since then, dozens of other municipalities across Pennsylvania, some with
as few as 1000 residents, have followed suit, reversing nearly 120 years of
corporate encroachment on the rights guaranteed to all citizens under the
U.S. Constitution. Prompted by the failure of state and federal regulatory
agencies to protect citizens' health, safety and quality of life from
large-scale corporate activities, these municipalities took matters into
their own hands and reclaimed their right of self-rule. Though the laws fly
in the face of more than a century's worth of legal precedents that say
corporations are "persons" protected by the Bill of Rights and the 14th
Amendment, thus far these ordinances seem to be working.

Now some Vermonters are looking to follow Pennsylvania's example and draft
similar ordinances here to address environmental and public-health problems
stemming from large corporate activities: the influx of big-box stores, the
spreading of toxic sludge, even the proposed power increase at the Vermont
Yankee nuclear power plant. Proponents of this strategy suggest that these
laws may even be used one day to challenge undemocratic principles that
were written into the World Trade Organization charter and the North
American Free Trade Agreement.

Championing this fight is Tom Linzey, a 35-year-old Alabama-born attorney
who is the executive director and co-founder of the Community Environmental
Legal Defense Fund. Founded in 1995, the Pennsylvania-based CELDF was
initially set up to provide free legal services to small community groups
that were fighting big environmental battles: toxic-waste incinerators,
landfills, municipal sludge fields and corporate factory farms. Since then,
however, the nonprofit law firm has expanded its mission to help
municipalities around the country roll back corporate rights through local
ordinances. CELDF conducts "democracy schools" - intensive, weekend-long
seminars that trace the history of corporate rights and help citizens
reframe local issues according to a new paradigm. Once such democracy
school was held two weeks ago in Putney for 20 Vermonters from the
Brattleboro area.

Linzey, who speaks on September 30 at Vermont Law School, explained in a
recent interview how this movement began. In the mid- to late-1990s, large
out-of-state agribusinesses began applying for permits to build large-scale
hog farms in rural Pennsylvania. Local residents, who overwhelmingly
opposed these farming operations, sought the help of state and federal
regulatory agencies like the EPA. However, these communities soon realized
that waging their battle on the regulatory front wouldn't stop undesirable
businesses from moving into town - it would merely lessen the harm those
activities caused.

The proposed factory farms were huge operations - 5000- to 6000-head hog
farms - that would dwarf neighboring family farms. Before long, CELDF was
inundated with phone calls from local officials across Pennsyl-vania - some
400 townships in all - seeking their help at fending off these corporate
farms. So CELDF began researching how this issue had been handled in other
states, particularly in the Midwest, where 300,000- to 400,000-head hog
farms are common.

This was when Linzey made a startling discovery: Nine Midwestern states
have laws banning large corporations from owning or controlling farms.

In fact, Nebraska and South Dakota went so far as to incorporate that ban
into their state constitutions. So CELDF copied the South Dakota
constitutional amendment and used it as a model for local ordinances. Ten
townships and five counties in Pennsylvania have adopted the anti-corporate
farming ordinance. To date, only one has been overturned by the courts.

During this same period in the 1990s, CELDF also began receiving calls from
community groups and local officials who were trying to stop the permitting
of sludge fields. Sludge, the solid-waste byproduct of wastewater treatment
plants, is not considered a "hazardous waste" by the federal government.
Although it can contain as many as 600,000 different toxic contaminants,
the U.S. Environ-mental Protection Agency requires testing for only 11 of
those contaminants.

Spreading sludge on farmland, a practice known as "biosolid land
application," was already a controversial issue in rural Pennsylvania
because of its impact on human and animal health. In 1995, two youths died
after coming into contact with a newly applied sludge field. In an effort
to prevent more sludge from being dumped in their communities, 68
Pennsylvania townships passed anti-sludge ordinances.

The corporate waste haulers didn't take these ordinances lying down. They
challenged the laws in court, arguing that townships were denying them
their constitutional rights and didn't have the legal authority to pass
these laws. The corporations also tried to hold town officials personally
liable for passing these laws. They based their argument on a federal civil
rights law that was passed in the aftermath of the Civil War in orders to
protect African-Ameri-cans from state-sanctioned discrimination.

Since these corporate sludge haulers had deep pockets, it wasn't even
necessary that they win in court. All they had to do was deplete a town's
financial resources by waging a long and costly legal battle. How did CELDF
respond? As Linzey explains, CELDF helped Porter and Licking townships
draft a "Corporate Rights Elimination Ordinance," which effectively
stripped the corporation of its right to sue. Though these laws were an
unprecedented challenge to corporate empowerment, they remain in effect
today and have yet to be challenged in court.

"Corporate rights sometimes get talked about as some academic or abstract
concept like something that's taught in a college political science class,"
Linzey says. "Here, what folks have said is that our vision for our
community does not include land-applied sludge. It does not include factory
farms. And that's the community we want."

Critics were quick to label the movement the work of liberal, anti-business
activists. But as Linzey points out, about 80 percent of the communities he
works with are overwhelmingly conservative and Republican. "Keep in mind,
these are rural township officials with the shit-kicker boots and the John
Deere hats. These are the guys who clear and salt the roads in the
wintertime," he says. "These are not activists. They are folks who saw a
problem and tried to do something about it."

How effective have the ordinances been? Very, says Linzey. "In the 68
townships that have passed sludge ordinances, not one new teaspoon of
sludge has been land-applied," he says. The same holds true for the ban on
corporate hog farms. In the 10 townships that passed anti-corporate farm
ordinances, Linzey says, not one new corporate hog farm has been
established, even though those areas were targeted for more factory farms.

Vermont is no stranger to the legal perversion of corporate "personhood."
In April 1994, the Vermont Legislature passed the nation's first law
requiring the labeling of dairy products containing the genetically altered
growth hormone, rBGH. In response, agribusiness giant Monsanto and a
coalition of dairy-industry groups sued the state, asserting that the law
was unconstitutional. A federal judge agreed, ruling that the new law
violated Monsanto's First Amendment right "not to speak."

Several weeks ago, 20 people from southern Vermont spent a weekend at
Landmark College in Putney, attending one of CELDF's democracy schools.
Among them was Larry Bloch, a small-business owner from Brat-tleboro who is
with Vermonters Restoring Democracy. It's an umbrella organization of
groups that deal with issues ranging from genetically modified organisms to
nuclear power to social and economic justice. Though its members come from
a variety of political backgrounds, what unites them, Bloch explains, is a
desire to combat corporate dominance over local decision-making.

"When a predatory corporation comes in and says, 'We're moving in no matter
what and we don't care if we push out your independently owned local
businesses,' that doesn't affect only progressives or only conservatives,"
Bloch says. "To hear the stories from Pennsylvania was inspiring because
these were people who had never been activists and weren't blessed with a
lot of free time or money or the inclination to shake things up."

Representative Sarah Edwards (P-Brattleboro) agrees. Edwards, who also
attended the democracy school, says the seminar helped reframe the debate
in her mind, especially on the issue of nuclear power. "It's helping me to
know who my adversary is," Edwards says. "I'm not talking about
individuals. I'm talking about the corporations.

"I have friends who work at [Vermont] Yankee. I know management who work at
Yankee," she adds. "This is not about them. This is about the system, the
machine of the corporation squeezing out the diversity of voices that is
necessary to have a good and healthy democracy.

Democracy schools already have been held in six states. By next year, there
will be five permanent "Daniel Pennock Democracy Schools" - named for one
of the two boys who died after coming into contact with the toxic sludge.
In the past, these schools have largely addressed environmental issues. But
that's charging, Linzey notes. Activists in Roxbury, Massa-chusetts, for
example, hope the Pennsylvania model can be used to challenge the
pharmaceutical industry on its policies pertaining to AIDS drugs.

Others see the approach as a way to counter international agreements like
NAFTA. John Berkowitz is executive director of Southern Vermonters for a
Fair Economy and Environmental Protection. He points to a law passed in
Massachusetts 10 years ago that prohibited municipalities from signing
contracts with companies that do business with Burma - a country with an
abysmal human rights record. After Japan and the European Union filed a
complaint about the law with the WTO, in 1997 the U.S. Supreme Court struck
down the Massachusetts laws as unconstitutional.

"Wait a minute. Who's deciding what's best for a community?" Berkowitz
asks. "Is it absentee corporations and people working for trade
organizations like the WTO? We're finding that people's local
decision-making abilities are being trumped by trade agreements that
basically say, 'You can't decide that at the local level.'"

But as Linzey reminds people who attend CELDF's democracy schools, local
communities can reclaim the power of self-rule. Like hurricanes that feed
off warmer waters, the anti-corporate movement draws strength through legal
provocation. Says Linzey, "This is about shifting the paradigm to let
people understand that the courts do step in to defend community rights
over corporate rights."

) Seven Days Newspaper, 2004

www.sevendaysvt.com

web queries?


d

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 17:11:06 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:11:06 -0400
Subject: How small towns are reversing a century of corporate 
  personhood
In-Reply-To: <p0611043abd8385758251@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611043abd8385758251@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <p06110446bd839fbeab9d@[66.149.49.5]>

At 7:04 PM -0400 10/1/04, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>the idea of
>abolishing the personhood of corporations

Of course, the act of abolition, using the law itself, is an exercise in
mental masturbation, which is what is really happening in Pennsylvania.

Financial cryptography gives us at least the hope of property -- or control
of property -- without legislation, if not prior legal agreement. David
Friedman's private law without public law.

Corporations, as creatures of this state wouldn't have to exist in such a
world, where limited liability could be done the old fashioned way: with
anonymity. :-)

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 17:56:36 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:56:36 -0400
Subject: Effort to Create Terror Watch List Is Falling Behind, Report
  Finds
Message-ID: <p06110449bd83ac9dafba@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109658864511433243,00.html>

The Wall Street Journal


 October 1, 2004

 PAGE ONE


Effort to Create Terror Watch List
 Is Falling Behind, Report Finds

By ROBERT BLOCK and GARY FIELDS
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
October 1, 2004; Page A1


A government report concludes that efforts to protect U.S. borders and
better identify terrorist suspects by compiling a single consolidated watch
list -- from more than a dozen currently in use by federal agencies -- have
badly foundered.

The inspector general of the Homeland Security Department, in the sometimes
scathing report, cites poor cooperation among many agencies and says his
own agency failed "to play a lead role" in oversight. The report has been
delivered to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge and congressional
leaders.


Compiling a viable, unified list of terrorist suspects was mandated by
Congress and ordered by President Bush after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Such a list is considered by law-enforcement agents as the most basic tool
in their arsenal and vital for protecting the country.

But now dozens of agencies, from the Federal Aviation Administration to the
Federal Bureau of Investigation, continue to use different lists that
sometimes contain outdated or incorrect information and even contradict
each other. That can hamper the sharing of vital data and identifying of
suspects -- and make it easier for terrorists to slip through cracks in the
system, officials say.

"The watch list is the poster child for information sharing for all our
intelligence and government agencies," said Daniel B. Prieto, research
director for the Homeland Security Partnership Initiative at the Kennedy
School of Government at Harvard University. "It has been the one project
that is the most straightforward; the most defined, the most politically
accepted idea, supported by every investigative commission since 9/11. If
they can't get this one right, then shame on them." Mr. Prieto is a former
Democratic congressional staffer who monitored the watch-list issue.

An edited version of the inspector general's report is to be publicly
released on Sunday. A copy was reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The findings come amid an intense debate about improving intelligence in
the wake of the 9/11 Commission's damning findings about government
failures before and after the Sept. 11 attacks. Congress is wrestling over
the creation of a new intelligence czar to better coordinate government
counterterrorism efforts. Intelligence changes also have become a campaign
issue, with the Bush administration asserting it has dramatically improved
information-sharing among law-enforcement agencies.

In the first presidential debate last night, Sen. John Kerry said the
president had failed to support police, firefighters and other programs,
saying, "This president thought it was more important to give the
wealthiest people in America a tax cut rather than invest in homeland
security. Those aren't my values. I believe in protecting America first."

REPORT EXCERPTS Below is an excerpt of the draft report to be issued by the
U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General on
challenges in consolidating terrorist watch list information.

Results in Brief
DHS is not playing a lead role in consolidating terrorist watch list
information. Instead, these consolidation activities are generally
administered by the entities that were responsible for collecting and
disseminating terrorist information prior to DHS's formation. DHS officials
said that the new department lacked the resources and infrastructure to
assume leadership for the consolidation. While this contention has merit,
DHS can still play a more robust role than at present by overseeing and
coordinating watch list consolidation activities across agency lines. Such
oversight would help DHS fulfill the role required by the Homeland Security
Act and better ensure that the past ad hoc approach to managing watch list
consolidation is not continued.

Stronger DHS leadership and oversight would also help improve current watch
list consolidation efforts. Although some progress toward streamlined
processes and enhanced interagency information sharing has been made, the
consolidation is hampered by a number of issues that have not been
coordinated effectively among interagency participants. Specifically, in
the absence of central leadership and oversight for the watch list
consolidation, planning, budgeting, staffing, and requirements definition
continue to be dealt with on an ad hoc basis, posing a risk to successful
accomplishment of the goal. A number of additional challenges, such as
identifying links between violent criminals and terrorism, privacy, and
duplicative federal activities related to watch list programs, could be
pursued in the context of a centrally coordinated approach to watch list
management.


In response, the president said his administration had tripled spending on
homeland security to $30 billion, worked with Congress to create the
Homeland Security Department and added protection and guards to the
nation's borders. "We're doing our duty to provide the funding," he said.
In reference to American military action overseas, he added, "But the best
way to protect this homeland is to stay on the offense." (See a related
article3.)

The inspector general's report notes that arguments over who is in charge
of consolidating a terrorist database have dogged the creation of the watch
list almost from the start.

"While the requirement to consolidate the multiple watch lists was clear,"
it says, "the approach to accomplish it has not been so. Responsibility for
consolidating multiple databases of watch lists has shifted among various
federal organizations..."

It further notes, "The manner through which the watch list consolidation
has unfolded has not helped the nation break from its pattern of ad hoc
approaches to counterterrorism."

Inspector General Clark Kent Ervin says the law creating Homeland Security
in 2002 gave the agency prime authority in the matter, and that subsequent
presidential decrees, including one creating a Terrorist Screening Center
under the FBI's purview, supplement, rather than supplant, the agency's
authority.

But a department spokesman rejects that conclusion, saying that the
Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation have the primary
responsibility for creating the watch list, not Homeland Security.

"It's the FBI that is charged with the lead role, not us," said Homeland
Security spokesman Brian Roherkasse.

The FBI declined to comment.

The report also states that a number of organizations involved in the
watch-list consolidation were "conducting a number of data mining
activities without central oversight" to make sure they were not violating
any policies or laws governing personal privacy. Data mining, or the
analysis of large amounts of commercial and other data to extract new kinds
of information useful to law enforcement, is very controversial and opposed
by groups like the American Civil Liberties Union.

Mr. Ervin, a Texas Republican who is known for his unfailing politeness,
came to Homeland Security from the State Department, where he served the
same role after following President Bush to Washington in 2001. Mr. Ervin
also worked in the White House from 1989 to 1991 under President George
H.W. Bush.

Mr. Ervin has issued several reports criticizing various efforts at
Homeland Security. Last week, he released one on Transportation Security
Administration screeners that found they did a poor job finding guns,
knives and potential bombs smuggled through security checkpoints by covert
testing from July to November 2003.

A White House spokesman said the president appointed Mr. Ervin and
appreciates his service.

Law-enforcement agencies have long considered the creation of automated
information or "watch lists" of potential or known terrorists and criminals
as a vital tool to help protect the country. Names on the list are checked
against the names of foreign nationals attempting to enter or already
present in the U.S.

The government's need for a unified, accurate and meaningful terrorist list
first surfaced after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
Investigators learned that two of the bombers, Sheik Rahman and Ali
Mohammed, were on an FBI watch list but still got visas because the State
Department and the old Immigration and Naturalization Service didn't have
access to FBI data.

After Sept. 11, a single watch list was considered vital to keeping
terrorists from gaining access to the U.S. as well as to coordinate the
fight against al Qaeda. But in April 2003, the investigative arm of
Congress, the General Accounting Office, now known as the General
Accountability Office, found that efforts to create such a list were going
nowhere and said that the lack of a single master list was constraining
efforts to protect and control U.S. borders.

Part of the problem has been confusion over whose job it is to take the
lead. In his 2003 State of the Union speech, President Bush called for the
creation of the Terrorist Threat Integration Center. The effort was meant
to unite the heads of the FBI, Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence
Agency and the Department of Defense in developing a single entity for
merging, analyzing and disseminating terrorist-threat information. The
Threat Center, which answers to the director of the CIA, opened on May 1,
2003, two months after the Department of Homeland Security opened its doors.

Less than five months later, on Sept. 16, 2003, Mr. Bush signed a directive
calling for the creation of another body, the TSC, to take the work of the
Threat Center and other government departments with terrorist information
and produce a unified database that could be accessed and shared by all
law-enforcement officials in the nation, from border guards in Arizona to
detectives in New York City.

Mr. Ridge, Secretary of State Colin Powell, then-CIA director George Tenet
and Attorney General John Ashcroft signed a memorandum of understanding
that the TSC would be run by the FBI and use the State Department's
terrorist watch list as the backbone of a new database that would integrate
all other existing data. TSC operatives would supposedly weed out
duplications and obsolete data and remove people who in the past had been
wrongly identified as terrorists or who had shared the same name as
suspects.

The TSC also was to work with new technologies to include identifying
features such as fingerprints, distinguishing scars and birthmarks, as well
as credit-card accounts and other data, to distinguish real suspects from
others.

The inspector general's report states that there has been some progress in
the effort, noting that as of March 12, 2004, the database contains more
than 100,000 names. It also says that the TSC has brought together
representatives from the FBI, State Department, Homeland Security, Secret
Service, Coast Guard and Customs and Border Protection to help in
consolidating the information into a form useful to share with law
enforcement.

However, the report finds there also have been problems in creating a
technological system that meets the competing requirements of the different
agencies contributing information. The head of the terrorist screening
center, Donna Bucella, reported to Congress earlier this year that she was
having problems getting some agencies, particularly at the Department of
Defense, to provide the screening center with its terrorist information.
The reason, in part, was that they were not satisfied with the security of
the screening center's computer system.

An FBI official familiar with the continuing problems over the Terrorist
Screening Center and the consolidation of a terror watch list said there
continues to be compatibility problems with the various databases the FBI
is trying bring together. Some issues revolve around various computer
systems being unable to communicate electronically. Other problems arise
because of different criteria for placing someone on the list in the first
place.

The report comes on the heels of several high-profile snafus caused by
proliferating watch lists. British singer Yusuf Islam, formerly known as
Cat Stevens, recently was stopped from traveling in the U.S. because his
name was on one list -- but not the Transport Security Administration's
official "No-Fly List." Similarly, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, Mass.) and Rep. Don
Young (R., Alaska) have said they at times have been mistaken for
terrorists at airline counters because of namesakes on the watch list.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  1 18:43:04 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:43:04 -0400
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
Message-ID: <p0611045cbd83ad74e21c@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://nytimes.com/2004/10/01/politics/01airports.html?pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 1, 2004

Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

EWARK, Sept. 30 - Laetitia Bohn walked into Newark Liberty International
Airport on Thursday, dazed and sleepy after an eight-hour flight from
Paris, and was jolted from her reverie when an immigration officer asked
for her photograph and fingerprints along with her passport.

 The officer took a digital scan of her left index finger, then her right,
and then snapped her picture with a tiny camera. The entire process took
only a few seconds, but for Ms. Bohn, a 29-year-old tourist from France, it
was an unnerving symbol of how much the United States had changed since the
terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"It made me feel kind of guilty, like a prisoner," Ms. Bohn said. "You can
feel the difference since 9/11. I was in New York seven years ago and
people were happy to have visitors. I don't think it's the case anymore."

 And so the day went - with a click of a camera and sharply conflicting
emotions as foreign visitors across the country arrived at American
airports, where officials for the first time began photographing and
electronically fingerprinting travelers from 27 industrialized nations,
including longtime allies like England, France, Germany, Spain, Japan and
Australia.

The policy shift, which was announced in April and took effect on Thursday,
will affect about 13 million visitors each year from 22 European countries
as well as Brunei, Singapore, Japan, Australia and New Zealand, who can
currently travel to the United States for up to 90 days without a visa.

 The change was made after intelligence reports indicated that terrorists
might take advantage of that provision, which allows travelers from Europe
and other industrialized countries to travel to the United States with
little scrutiny.

Until now, only travelers who needed visas to visit the United States were
fingerprinted and photographed at American airports in a program started in
January to ensure that suspected terrorists, criminals and violators of
immigration law do not enter the country. The program, which is now
expected to screen about 20 million foreign visitors at 115 airports and 14
seaports annually, is the latest security measure to affect foreign
visitors since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Last year, American embassies and consulates around the world began
collecting digital fingerprints from foreigners applying for visas.

 And beginning this fall, officials will require overseas visitors at some
airports and seaports to be fingerprinted and photographed before they
leave the United States to monitor whether visitors are in fact returning
to their home countries.

 "America has been a welcoming country and it continues to be one, but in
the post-9/11 era it has been necessary to make sure we know who is
traveling to our country," said Commissioner Robert C. Bonner, who directs
the customs and border protection unit at the Department of Homeland
Security.

Reaction from foreign governments was mostly muted. But some officials said
the policy raised privacy concerns. Japanese officials said they had asked
that the fingerprints and photographs be deleted when their citizens leave
this country.

"We understand the necessity of the U.S.'s new measures," Motohisa Suzuki,
who coordinates antiterrorism programs for Japan's Cabinet Office, said on
Thursday. But Mr. Suzuki added, "We need to be fully discreet about the
handling of the private information."

Airline and airport officials were bracing for longer lines on Thursday.
But customs officials, who surveyed about 20 airports on Thursday
afternoon, said that only 40 of the 1,500 flights reported slower than
normal waiting times attributed to the new procedures.

Officials noted, however, that September was typically a slow month for
overseas arrivals and that Thursday was typically a quiet travel day.

"So far, so good," said Joseph A. Cardinale, acting port director for
passport control at the Newark airport. "We've had the experience of doing
the fingerprints and the photographs for several months now, so it's not
new to the officers. That's a tremendous help.''

Tourists greeted the system with a mixture of nonchalance and irritation.

 Bruce Reid, a 59-year-old doctor from Australia, said he did not object.
"I haven't got a criminal record, so it doesn't worry me much," said Dr.
Reid, who flew into Los Angeles.

 Marleen Maas, 43, a homemaker from Frankfurt, disagreed.

"What's next? Are they going to take pieces of my hair, too?" asked Ms.
Maas, who flew into Miami to visit her daughter. "It didn't take long, but
it made me feel like a criminal."

In Newark, Marc Eisenchteter of Paris said the process moved efficiently.
Ms. Bohn agreed and said that despite her misgivings she would still return
to the United States.

 "It was more easy to visit before," she said. "But I will still come back."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct  1 23:22:05 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:22:05 -0700
Subject: Nightclub you'll want to skip - RFID microchipping the guests  
  [BBC article]
Message-ID: <200410020632.i926WWUq026133@positron.jfet.org>

Here's a nightclub you'll want to skip, unless you feel like hacking RFIDs...
("Nothing up my sleeve but this Rivest RFID Blocker!")

** Barcelona clubbers get chipped **
Some clubbers in Barcelona have opted to have a microchip implanted which
lets them pay for drinks.
< http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm >

BBC Science producer Simon Morton goes clubbing in Barcelona with a
microchip implanted in his arm to pay for drinks.

Imagine having a glass capsule measuring 1.3mm by 1mm, about the size of a
large grain of rice injected under your skin.

Implanting microchips that emit a Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
into animals has been common practice in many countries around the world,
with some looking to make it a legal requirement for domestic pet owners.

The idea of having my very own microchip implanted in my body appealed. I
have always been an early adopter, so why not.

Last week I headed for the bright lights of the Catalan city of Barcelona
to enter the exclusive VIP Baja Beach Club.

The night club offers its VIP clients the opportunity to have a
syringe-injected microchip implanted in their upper arms that not only
gives them special access to VIP lounges, but also acts as a debit account
from which they can pay for drinks.

This sort of thing is handy for a beach club where bikinis and board shorts
are the uniform and carrying a wallet or purse is really not practical.

Thumping heart

I met the owner of the club, Conrad Chase, who had come up with the idea
when trying to develop the ultimate in membership cards and was the first
person implanted with the capsule, made by VeriChip Corporation.

With a waiver in his hand Conrad asked me to sign my life away, confirming
that if I wanted the chip removed it was my responsibility.

Four aspiring VIP members sat quietly sipping their beverages as the nurse
Laia began preparing the surgical materials.

Like a scene from a sci-fi movie, latex gloves and syringes were laid out
on the table as the DJ played loud dance tunes that made my heart thump, or
was it just fear?

Questions were going through my mind. Would it hurt? What are the risks?
What if I want to get it out?

I ordered another drink.

Comfortably numb

Laia started by disinfecting my upper arm and then administered a local
anaesthetic to numb the area where the chip would be implanted.

With the large needle in her hand, she tested the zone which made me flinch
and led to another dose of the anaesthetic.

With a numb arm, Laia held up the rather large needle containing the
microchip and inserted it beneath the layer of skin and fat on my arm.

She pressed the injector and it was in - my very own 10 digit number safely
located in my body.

The chip is made of glass and is inert so there is no risk of it reacting
with my body.

It sits dormant under the skin sending out a very low range radio frequency
so it will not set off airport security systems.

The chip responds to a signal when a scanner is held near it and supplies
its own unique ID number.

The number can then be linked to a database that is linked to other data,
at the Baja beach club it make charges to a customers account.

If I want to leave the club then I can have it surgically removed - a
pretty simple procedure similar to having it put in.

Now, the question of did it hurt. Having the chip inserted was a breeze, no
real pain to report of.

The real pain was the sore head the following day after a night on an open
bar tab.

You can hear more about Simon's experiences on the BBC World Service
programme Go Digital
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm

Published: 2004/09/29 08:17:45 GMT

) BBC MMIV




From eugen at leitl.org  Sat Oct  2 01:36:13 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:36:13 +0200
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <p0611045cbd83ad74e21c@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611045cbd83ad74e21c@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041002083612.GH1457@leitl.org>

On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 09:43:04PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

>  "It was more easy to visit before," she said. "But I will still come
back."

Well, no, I won't. (And quite a number of others).

No biometrics ID for me either.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  2 17:50:03 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:50:03 -0400
Subject: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
Message-ID: <BAY24-F41eIIffEBhZT00027c38@hotmail.com>

Yes, I am indeed a little suspicious. Clearly, this "quantum repeater" can't 
be doing an O/E, or no amount of hype will budge this product an inch.

Quantum Crypto utilizes pairs of correlated photons, so we can't be talking 
about an optical amplifer.

So since I've been away from the literature for a while, is there a device 
that can repair a deteriorating, about-to-be-collapsed superposition state? 
I can't see how this could occur without the requirement of acting on the 
other (correlated) photon either, and if that photon is physically removed 
from the first, then forget about it. (Though theoretically I think I can 
conceive of the possibility of two "correlated quantum repeaters" exchanging 
'information' (including gating) about the photon pair they are collectively 
handling*, but no way that can be useful commerically.)

*: This isn't quite as farfetched as it seems: Even 5 to 10 years ago it was 
shown that there can be quantum Forward Error Correction, and simple devices 
were demonstrated in the laboratory.

-TD




>From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart at pobox.com>
>To: "Tyler Durden" <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>CC: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net, rah at shipwright.com
>Subject: RE: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
>Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:59:40 -0700
>
>At 05:12 PM 9/30/2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
>
>>What's a "quantum repeater" in this context?
>
>It's also known as a "wiretap insertion point"...
>
> > As for "Hype Watch", I tend to agree, but I also believe that Gelfond
> > (who I spoke to last year) actually does have a 'viable' system.
> > Commerically viable is another thing entirely, however.
>
>"Practical" implies that there's a crossover point between
>cost and benefit and that implementation is on the "benefit" side.
>
>Implementation may now be possible, and the costs may be lower
>than their previous infinite value, but the main benefits I see are
>public relations hype to impress the rubes and protect against
>zero-day exploits against Diffie-Hellman or Cisco IOS.
>But you could protect against the Cisco exploits just as easily
>with a conventional-key encryption hardware box,
>and you wouldn't need contiguous fiber.

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct  3 09:49:53 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:49:53 -0700
Subject: comfortably numb
Message-ID: <41602DB1.B543AFFF@cdc.gov>

t 11:22 PM 10/1/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Questions were going through my mind. Would it hurt? What are the
risks?
>What if I want to get it out?
>
>I ordered another drink.

In the US its generally illegal to tattoo someone who is drunk.

>Comfortably numb

In many ways this fellow is.

------------

I recently read that DoCoMo is moving towards using cellphones as
wallets for all kinds of value.

Though they could have the phone be an anonymous bearer
token like cash or a prepaid token
(which, like cash, limits the loss to the stored value if the phone is
lost
or stolen), they "thought customers would prefer transaction records".
Japs don't care for privacy, it seems.   If they lose the phone, its
just one call to DoCoMo instead of several to credit companies,
which is touted as a plus.  Makes analyzing behavior easier if
its centralized.  Insects.




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Sun Oct  3 07:22:53 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 03 Oct 2004 10:22:53 -0400
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>
References: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>
Message-ID: <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>

On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote:

> The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through
> the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure,
> the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
> wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...

Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall
to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant
to keep out a demonstrated threat.

Now, we can productively discuss the effectiveness of the US
government's actions (ie, not very damn effective), but that's a
different topic.




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct  3 10:26:15 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:26:15 -0700
Subject: Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
Message-ID: <41603636.A5665693@cdc.gov>

At 11:37 AM 10/3/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> Unlike the TSA's recently announced program to use computer databases
to
>scan for suspicious individuals whose names occur on passenger lists,
SPOT
>is instead based squarely on the human element: the ability of TSA
>employees to identify suspicious individuals by using the principles of

>surveillance and detection. Passengers who flag concerns by exhibiting
>unusual or anxious behavior will be pointed out to local police, who
will
>then conduct face-to-face interviews to determine whether any threat
>exists.

Nice to see another euphemism for cultural prejudgice:
"the human element", mein fuhrer (insert Dr Strangelove image)

Reminds me of how you can't use race in eg loan application processing,
but you *can* use neural nets whose behaviors are hidden in the nodes.

(As a lib, I know its wrong to tell folks they can't use predicate-X;
but for the state to use eg race disguised as "the human element"
is criminal.)

PS: do cargo planes have kevlar doors yet?




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct  3 07:44:45 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:44:45 -0400
Subject: Fixing the Vote
Message-ID: <p06110409bd85c07959e2@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=00018DD5-73E7-1151-B57F83414B7F0000>
  

Scientific American

Fixing the Vote

 September 17, 2004

Fixing the Vote

Electronic voting machines promise to make elections more accurate than
ever before, but only if certain problems--with the machines and the wider
electoral process--are rectified

By Ted Selker

 Voting may seem like a simple activity--cast ballots, then count them.
Complexity arises, however, because voters must be registered and votes
must be recorded in secrecy, transferred securely and counted accurately.
We vote rarely, so the procedure never becomes a well-practiced routine.
One race between two candidates is easy. Half a dozen races, each between
several candidates, and ballot measures besides--that's harder. This
complex process is so vital to our democracy that problems with it are as
noteworthy as engineering faults in a nuclear power plant.

 Votes can be lost at every stage of the process. The infamous 2000 U.S.
presidential election dramatized some very basic, yet systemic, flaws
concerning who got to vote and how the votes were counted. An estimated
four million to six million ballots were not counted or were prevented from
being cast at all--well over 2 percent of the 150 million registered
voters. This is a shockingly large number considering that the decision of
which candidate would assume the most powerful office in the world came to
rest on 537 ballots in Florida.

 Three simple problems were to blame for these losses. The first, which
made up the largest contribution, was from registration database errors
that prevented 1.5 million to three million votes; this problem was
exemplified by 80,000 names taken off the Florida lists because of a poorly
designed computer algorithm. Second, a further 1.5 million to two million
votes were uncountable because of equipment glitches, mostly bad ballot
design. For example, the butterfly ballot of Palm Beach County confused
many into voting for an unintended candidate and also contributed to
another appalling outcome: 19,235 people, or 4 percent of voters, selected
more than one presidential candidate. Equipment problems such as clogged
punch holes resulted in an additional 682 dimpled ballots that were not
counted there. Finally, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, about one
million registered voters reported that polling-place difficulties such as
long lines prevented them from casting a vote.

 Thus, registration and polling-place troubles accounted for about two
thirds of the documentable lost votes in 2000. The remaining one third were
technology-related, most notably ballot design and mechanical failures. In
the aftermath of the 2000 election, officials across the country, at both
the federal and local levels, have scrambled to abandon old approaches,
such as lever machines and punch cards, in favor of newer methods. Many are
turning to electronic voting machines. Although these machines offer many
advantages, we must make sure that these new systems simplify the election
process, reduce errors and eliminate fraud.

 Some countries have introduced electronic systems with great success.
Brazil started testing electronic voting machines in the mid-1990s and
since 2000 has been using one type of machine across its vast pool of 106
million voters. It has multiple organizations responsible for different
aspects of voting equipment development as part of the safeguards. It also
introduced the machines in carefully controlled stages--with 40,000 voters
in 1996 (7 percent of whom failed to record their votes electronically) and
150,000 in 1998 (2 percent failure). Improvements based on those
experiments reduced the failure rate to an estimated 0.2 percent in 2000.

 Voting Technology
 Voting systems have a long history of advancing with technology. In
ancient Greece, Egypt and Rome, marks were made for candidates on pieces of
discarded pottery called ostraca. Paper superseded pottery in the
hand-counted paper ballot, which is still used by 1.3 percent of U.S.
voters. Other modern technologies are lever machines, punch cards and
mark-sense ballots (where each candidate's name is next to an empty oval or
other shape that must be marked correctly to indicate the selection, and a
scanner counts the votes automatically). The table on pages 94 and 95
summarizes the benefits and drawbacks of each of these methods and suggests
ways to improve them. A lengthier discussion of nonelectronic systems is at
www.sciam. com/ontheweb.

 Electronic voting machines have been around for 135 years--Thomas Edison
patented one in 1869. Elections started testing electronic voting machines
in the 1970s, when displaying and recording a ballot directly into a
computer file became economical. At first, many were mixed-media machines,
using paper to present the selections and buttons to record the votes.
Officials had to carefully align the paper with the buttons and indicator
lights. Electronic voting machines that use such paper overlays are still
on the market. More modern direct record electronic (DRE) voting machines
present the ballot and feedback information on an electronic display, which
may be combined with audio.

 Such machines have many advantages: they can stop a voter from choosing
too many candidates (called overvoting), and they can warn if no candidate
is picked on a race (undervoting). For instance, when Georgia changed over
to DREs in 2002, residuals (the total of overvotes and undervotes combined)
were reduced from among the worst in the nation at 3.2 percent on the top
race in 2000 to 0.9 percent in 2002. So-called ballotless voting allows the
machines to eliminate tampering with physical ballots during handling or
counting. (Lever machines, dating back to 1892, share many of those
features.)

 Yet the birthing of DRE voting equipment in the U.S. has not been easy.
The voting machine industry is fragmented, with numerous companies pursuing
a variety of products and without a mature body of industry-wide standards
in place. Deciding what is a good voting machine is still being discussed
by various advocacy organizations and groups such as the IEEE Project 1583
on voting equipment standards. Allegations of voting companies using money
to influence testing and purchasing of equipment are not uncommon.

 Complicating matters, local jurisdictions across the country have
different rules and approaches to testing and using voting equipment. Some
counties, such as Los Angeles, are sophisticated enough that they
commission voting machines built to their own specifications. Many other
municipalities know so little about voting that they employ voting
companies to run the election and report the results.

 Polling-place practices add further hazards of insecurity and potential
malfunctions. I recall walking into the central election warehouse (where
the voting machines are stored and the precinct vote tallies are combined)
in Broward County, Florida, when it was being used for a recount in
December 2002. The building's loading dock was opened to the outdoors for
ventilation. The control center for tallying all the votes was a small
computer room; the door to that room was ajar and no log was kept of
personnel entering and leaving.

 Beyond external issues, DRE machines themselves have had technological
shortcomings that have slowed their adoption. Voters have found their
displays confusing or challenging to use. Software bugs and difficulties in
setting up DREs have also presented problems. During the 2002 Broward
County recount, I was allowed to try out machines from Electronic Systems
and Services (ESS), one of the country's major election machine makers. The
ESS machines had an excessive undervote because the "move to next race"
button was too close to the "deposit my ballot" button. An audio ballot was
so poorly designed it took about 45 minutes to vote.

 On machines made by the company Sequoia, people who chose a straight party
vote and then tried to select that party's presidential candidate were
unaware that they were deselecting their presidential choice. A massive 10
percent undervote was registered in one county using Sequoia machines in
New Mexico.

 Examining the insides of new voting machines still reveals many physical
security faults. For example, some machines have a lifetime electronic
odometer that is supposed to read every vote that the machine makes. But
the odometer is connected to the rest of the machine by a cable that a
corrupt poll worker could unplug to circumvent it without breaking a seal.

 Source code for voting machines made by different companies, like most
commercial software, is a trade secret. Election machine companies allow
buyers to show the source code to experts under confidential terms.
Unfortunately, the local election officials might not know how to find a
qualified expert. And when they find one, will the voting companies be
required to listen? For instance, in 1997 Iowa was considering a voting
machine made by Global Election Systems, which was later bought out by
Diebold. Computer scientist Douglas W. Jones of the University of Iowa
pointed out security issues, and the state bought Sequoia machines instead.
In February 2003 Diebold left its software on unsecured servers, and DRE
critics posted Diebold's code on the Internet for everyone to see. The
problems that Jones saw six years earlier had not been fixed. Any person
with physical access to the machines and a moderate amount of computer
knowledge could have hacked into them to produce any outcome desired.

 The best computer security available depends on sophisticated encryption
and carefully designed protocols. Yet to know the system has not been
compromised requires testing. DRE machines have not received the constant
testing that they require. Security of today's voting machines is wholly
dependent on election workers and the procedures that they follow.

 Because virtually all tallies, no matter what voting method is used, are
now stored and transmitted in some electronic form, computer fraud is
possible with all voting systems. The advent of DRE machines potentially
allows such tampering to go unchecked from the point at which the voter
attempts to cast a ballot. Schemes for altering ballots have always
existed, but a computerized attack could have widespread effects were it
waged on a large jurisdiction that uses one kind of software on one type of
machine. Using a single system allows large jurisdictions to get organized
and improve their results but must be accompanied by stringent controls.

 The successful reduction of residuals across all of Georgia, mentioned
earlier, is a case in point. Thorough tests on the DREs at Kenisaw State
University found many problems, which were resolved before the machines
were put into use. This rigorous testing and careful introduction of the
machines were central to the state's success.

 Electronic Fraud
 How can we find all the dangers created by bad software and prevent or
correct them before they compromise an election? Reading source code
exposes its quality and its use of security approaches and can reveal bugs.
But the only completely reliable way to test software is by running it
through all the possible situations that it might be faced with.

 In 1983 Ken Thompson, on receipt of the Association for Computing
Machinery's Turing Award (the most prestigious award in computer science),
gave a lecture entitled "Reflections on Trusting Trust." In it he showed
the possibility of hazards such as "Easter eggs"--pieces of code that are
not visible to a reader of the program. In a voting machine, such code
would do nothing until election day, when it would change how votes were
recorded. Such code could be loaded into a voting machine in many ways: in
the voting software itself, in the tools that assemble the software
(compiler, linker and loader), or in the tools the program depends on
(database, operating system scheduler, memory management and
graphical-user-interface controller).

 Tests must therefore be conducted to catch Easter eggs and bugs that occur
only on election day. Many electronic voting machines have clocks in them
that can be set forward to the day of the election to perform a test. But
these clocks could be manipulated by officials to rerun an election and
create bogus voting records, so a safer voting machine would not allow its
clock to be set in the field. Such machines would need to be tested for
Easter egg fraud on election day. In November 2003 in California a random
selection of each electronic voting system was taken aside on the day of
election, and careful parallel elections were conducted to show that the
machines were completely accurate at recording votes. These tests
demonstrated that the voting machines were working correctly.

 To prepare for a fraud-free voting day requires that every effort be made
to create voting machines that do not harbor malicious code. The computer
science research community is constantly debating the question of how to
make provably secure software. Computer security experts have devised many
approaches to keep computers reliable enough for other purposes, such as
financial transactions. Financial software transfers billions of dollars
every day, is extensively tested and holds up well under concerted attacks.
The same security techniques can be applied to voting machines. Some
researchers believe that the security precautions of "open source" (making
the programs available for anyone to examine) and encryption techniques can
help but not completely guard against Easter eggs.

 Guarding votes against being compromised has always required multiple
human agents watching each other for mistakes or malice. The best future
schemes might include computer agents that check one another and create
internal audits to validate every step of the voting process. The Secure
Architecture for Voting Electronically (SAVE) at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology is a demonstration research project to explore such
an approach. SAVE works by having several programs carry out the same
tasks, but while using such different methods that each program would have
to be breached separately to compromise the final result. The system knows
to call foul when too many modules disagree.

 Audit Trails
 Some critics insist that the best way to ameliorate such attacks is by
providing a separate human-readable paper ballot. This widely promoted
scheme is the voter-verified paper ballot (VVPB) suggested by Rebecca
Mercuri, then at Bryn Mawr College. The voting machine prints out a
receipt, and the voter can look at it after voting and assure himself that
at least the paper records his intention. The receipt remains behind a
clear screen so no one can tamper with it during its inspection, and it is
retained by the machine. If a dispute about the electronic count arises, a
recount can be conducted using the printed receipts. (It is not a good idea
for the voter to have a copy, because such receipts could encourage the
selling of votes.)

 Although the VVPB looks quite appealing at first glance, a deeper
inspection exposes some serious flaws. First, it is complicated for the
voter. Elections in this country often have many races. Validating all the
selections on a separate paper after the ballot has been filled out is not
a simple task. Experience shows that even when confronted with a printout
that tells voters in which race they have made a mistake, few are willing
to go back and correct it. Anything that takes a voter's attention away
from the immediate act of casting a ballot will reduce the chances of the
person voting successfully. Every extra button, every extra step, every
extra decision is a source of lost votes.

 The scheme is also complicated for the officials. If a voter claims fraud,
what is the official to do? The voter claims she voted for Jane, but both
the DRE screen and the receipt show a vote for John. Should they close the
polling station? On top of this, the officials are not legally allowed to
see an individual voter's ballot.

 VVPB addresses only a small part of the fraud problem. The paper trails
themselves could be made part of a scheme for defrauding an election if a
hacker tampers with the printing software. The paper can be manipulated in
all the usual ways after the election.

 A better option would allow people to verify their selections with
recorded audio feedback. An audio transcript on tape or a CD has an
integrity that is harder to compromise than a collection of paper receipts.
Most current electronic voting machines can be set up to speak the choices
to the voter while he looks at the visual interface. The tape can be read
by a computer or listened to by people. Because misreads of paper are a
major difficulty with all counting machines today, the tape can be better
verified than paper receipts. An audio receipt is also preferable to a
paper receipt because it is hard to change or erase the audio verifications
without such alterations being noticed (think about the 18-minute gap on
the Watergate tapes). Also, a small number of cassette tapes or CDs are
easier to store and transport than thousands of paper receipts.

 Other proposals for voter verification include recording the video image
of the DRE and showing the ballot as it has been received by the central
counting databases while the voter is in the booth. The advantage of these
techniques is that they are passive--they do not require additional actions
on the part of the voter.

 Here is how voting might go using a well-designed audio record. Imagine
you are voting on a computer. You like Abby Roosevelt, Independent. You
press the touch-screen button for your choice. The name is highlighted, and
the vote button on one side is replaced with an unvote button on the other
side. The tab on the screen for this race shows that a selection has been
made. The earphones you are wearing tell you that you have voted for "Ben
Jefferson" (and these words are recorded on a backup tape).

 Wait a minute! "Ben Jefferson"? You realize that you must have pressed the
wrong button by mistake. You study the screen and see a prominent "cancel
vote" button. You press it. "Vote for Ben Jefferson for president
canceled," the computer intones onto a tape and into your ears. The screen
returns to its prevote state, and this time you press more carefully and
are rewarded with "Vote cast for Abby Roosevelt, Independent, for
president." You go on to the Senate race.

 The features just described are designed to give feedback in ways you are
most adept at understanding. People are good at noticing labels moving,
tabs changing, and contrast and texture changes. We have trouble doing
things accurately without such feedback. The audio verification comes right
at a time when the user is performing the action. Perceptual tasks (seeing
movement and hearing the audio) are easier to perform than cognitive ones
(reading a paper receipt and remembering all the candidates one intended to
vote for). A tape or CD recording is a permanent, independent transcript of
your vote.

 These features are all implementable now as ballot improvements on current
voting machines. Extra work would be needed to allow sight- or
hearing-impaired people to verify multiple records of their ballot as well.

 Some researchers are studying alternatives to DREs, in the form of
Internet voting or voting using familiar devices such as the phone. Since
May 2002, England has been experimenting with a number of systems intended
to increase turnout. These methods include mailing in optically readable
paper ballots (absentee voting), using a standard phone call and the
phone's keypad, using the instant-messaging facilities on cell phones and
using interactive TV that is available in English homes. Swindon Borough,
for example, included more than 100,000 voters in an experiment using the
Internet and telephones. A 10-digit PIN was hand-delivered to voters'
homes. This PIN was used in conjunction with a password the voters had been
sent separately to authorize them to vote. No fraud was detected or
reported. But the effort only improved turnout by 3 percentage points (from
28 to 31 percent).

 In contrast, introducing the option of absentee voting increased voter
turnout by 15 percentage points--but with a downside: large-scale vote
buying was reported in Manchester and Bradford. (Being able to prove whom
you have voted for, such as by showing the ballot you are mailing in,
enables vote buying.)

 What Must Be Done
 The universal adoption of perfect voting machines will not be happening
anytime soon. But quite independent of the specific machines used, much can
and should be done simply to ensure that votes are collected and accurately
counted in the U.S. We must be adamant about the following improvements:

 1. We must simplify the registration system. The largest loss of votes in
2000 occurred because errors in registration databases prevented people
from voting. Registration databases must be properly checked to make sure
they include all eligible people who want to be registered. We must develop
national standards and technology to ensure that people can register
reliably but that they do not register and vote in multiple places.

 2. Local election officials must understand the operation of their
equipment and test its performance thoroughly when it is delivered and
before each election. DREs should be tested on election day, using dummy
precincts.

 3. Local election officials must teach their workers using simple
procedures to run the equipment and other processes. Ballot making,
marking, collecting and counting all must be carefully set up to avoid
error and fraud. Many voting officials inadvertently use procedures that
compromise accuracy, security and integrity of ballots by, for example,
turning off precinct scanning machines that check for overvotes and
inspecting and "correcting" ballots.

 4. Each step in the voting process must be resistant to tampering.
Collecting, counting and storing of ballots must be done with documentation
of who touches everything and with clear procedures for what to do with the
materials at each stage. Multiple people must oversee all critical
processes.

 5. Each task in the voting process must be clear and accessible, have
helpful feedback and allow a person to validate it. Perceptual, cognitive,
motor and social capabilities of people must be taken into account when
designing machines and ballots. Ballot designs should pass usability and
countability tests before being shown for final approval to the parties
invested in the election. Voters must be able to understand how to make
their selections, and votes must be easy to count in mass quantities.

 6. The government should invest in research to develop and test secure
voting technology, including DREs and Internet voting. Rushing to adopt
present-day voting machines is not the best use of funds in the long term.

 7. Standards of ethics must be set and enforced for all poll workers and
also for voting companies regarding investments in them and donations by
them or their executives.

 Only when these requirements are met will we have a truly secure and
accurate voting system, no matter what underlying technology is used.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct  3 08:37:57 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:37:57 -0400
Subject: Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
Message-ID: <p0611040dbd85c15b8ee6@[66.149.49.5]>

Wherein the TSA thinks they can observe a lot by watching...

Cheers,
RAH
-------

<http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,708924,00.html>

 Saturday, Oct. 02, 2004
Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
TIME exclusive: A new airport security system soon to be tested will rely
on human judgment
By  SALLY B. DONNELLY/WASHINGTON

 TIME exclusive: A new airport security system soon to be tested will rely
on human judgment  The most dangerous threat to commercial aviation is not
so much the things bad people may be carrying, but the bad people
themselves. That refrain heard constantly from airline security experts
over the past three years appears to have finally been heeded by the
Transportation Security Administration (TSA). Aviation sources tell TIME
that the TSA plans to address the problem by launching its own passenger
profiling system. The system known as SPOT (Screening of Passengers by
Observation Techniques) relies more on the human dimension in detecting
threats, and is to be tested at two northeastern airports starting later
this month.

 "This is a radical change to aviation security," says Sgt. Peter
DiDomenica, the Massachusetts State Police officer who developed the
racially-neutral profiling program in place at Boston's Logan Airport, on
which SPOT is based. "This is a very subtle but very effective program."

 Unlike the TSA's recently announced program to use computer databases to
scan for suspicious individuals whose names occur on passenger lists, SPOT
is instead based squarely on the human element: the ability of TSA
employees to identify suspicious individuals by using the principles of
surveillance and detection. Passengers who flag concerns by exhibiting
unusual or anxious behavior will be pointed out to local police, who will
then conduct face-to-face interviews to determine whether any threat
exists. If such inquiries turn up other issues of concern, such as travel
to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq or Sudan, for example, police officers
will know to pursue the questioning or alert Federal counter-terrorism
agents.

 DiDomenica has first-hand experience of the effectiveness of the system.
He was using his own observation techniques - called BASS (Behavior
Assessment Screening System) - last year when he saw man acting oddly near
the checkpoint and stopped him. The suspect passenger turned out to be an
agent from the Department of Homeland Security who had been trying to test
the system by sneaking a prohibited device onto a plane.

 Although the profiling programs are aimed primarily at stopping
terrorists, they have had other benefits. The Massachusetts State Police
have arrested about 20 people for infractions ranging from being in the
country illegally to failing to answer outstanding warrants for various
offenses.

 The TSA plans to test SPOT for 60 days before committing to taking it
nationwide, eventually to all of the country's 429 commercial airports.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Oct  3 12:01:31 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 12:01:31 -0700
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
References: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>  <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <200410031910.i93JAEUH027623@positron.jfet.org>

At 07:22 AM 10/3/2004, Steve Furlong wrote:

>On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> > The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get 
> through
> > the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this 
> measure,
> > the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
> > wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...

There's already a wall / fence built to keep Mexicans out.

>Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall
>to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant
>to keep out a demonstrated threat.

They're primarily intended to create a climate of fear and dependence
and reassure the American public that the government's in charge.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct  3 11:32:36 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:32:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
References: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01> <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <20041003133056.D50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Steve Furlong wrote:

> On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>
> > The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through
> > the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure,
> > the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
> > wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...
>
> Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall
> to keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant
> to keep out a demonstrated threat.

(1) There are also a number of non-rebar+concrete "walls" in place to keep
US citizens from leaving;

(2) The "demonstrated threat" folks are not generally the ones being
targetted.

The US *is* the Fourth Reich.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

  "...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them."      Osama Bin Laden
	- - -

  "There aught to be limits to freedom!"    George Bush
	- - -

Which one scares you more?




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct  3 12:14:30 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:14:30 -0400
Subject: A Proposed Nomenclature for the Four Horseman of The
  Infocalypse
Message-ID: <p06110433bd85f5dcdd81@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've been talking about this for the last decade, and never found a
reference on the web whenever I was thinking about it. Thanks to
Google, it was well within my prodigiously diminished attention span
this morning.

Given the events on the net over the past few years, I figure we
might as well have fun with the idea. Humor is good leverage, and
these days we need *lots* of leverage.

In arbitrary order (in other words, *I* chose it. :-)), and with
apologies to Toru Iwatani, by way of Michael Thomasson at
<http://www.gooddealgames.com/articles/Pac-Man%20Ghosts.html>, here
it is:


A Proposed Nomenclature for the Four Horseman of The Infocalypse

   Horseman             Color      Character   Nickname

1  Terrorism            Red        Shadow      "Blinky"
2  Narcotics            Pink       Speedy      "Pinky"
3  Money Laundering     Aqua       Bashful     "Inky"
4  Paedophilia          Yellow     Pokey       "Clyde"

It is acceptable to refer to a horseman by any of the above, i.e.,
"Horseman No. 1", "The Red Horseman", "Shadow", or "Blinky".

Apparently there was a, um, pre-deceased, dark-blue ghost, used in
Japanese tournament play, named "Kinky", I leave that particular
horseman for quibblers.


Cheers,
RAH

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Version: PGP 8.0.3

iQA/AwUBQWBN/MPxH8jf3ohaEQKfBwCfYAtDGjP6jjsUHfhWcddqDYTEWfEAoOTU
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=/tt7
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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From adam at cypherspace.org  Sun Oct  3 12:41:25 2004
From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 15:41:25 -0400
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>
References: <p0611045cbd83ad74e21c@[66.149.49.5]>
  <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>
Message-ID: <20041003194125.GA14492@bitchcake.off.net>

I don't know if my info is still current (and I did not read the
article), but the last time I went to the US (early this year) my H1B
was no longer in effect (I quit microsoft last year, and H1B visas are
tied to employer), and I did not get fingerprinted.

However they had a camera and fingerprinting equipment, and notice
saying that if you _did_ have H1B and other such temporary US visa
documents you would be photographed and fingerprinted.

Adam

On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:18:24PM +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> "R. A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com> writes:
> 
> >NEWARK, Sept. 30 - Laetitia Bohn walked into Newark Liberty International
> >Airport on Thursday, dazed and sleepy after an eight-hour flight from Paris,
> >and was jolted from her reverie when an immigration officer asked for her
> >photograph and fingerprints along with her passport.
> 
> The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through
> the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure,
> the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
> wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...
> 
> Peter (who'll be thinking really hard about any future conference trips to the
>        US).




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct  3 13:25:17 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:25:17 -0400
Subject: Passengers refuse to fly with two women in black on board
Message-ID: <p0611044fbd8610901fbe@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://english.pravda.ru/printed.html?news_id=14300>

       - PRAVDA.Ru


 Passengers refuse to fly with two women in black on board - 09/23/2004 13:51

 Incidents when Russian passengers refuse to fly due to suspicious-looking
females of Middle Eastern descent are becoming a norm these days.

  On September 1, the day of the Beslan tragedy, passengers of a
Moscow-bound flight from Sharm el Sheih (Egypt) refused to fly with two
Muslim women in traditional clothes onboard. This time, another flight from
Moscow to Khurgada has been delayed.

  ?Two Egyptian women were set to fly aboard a TU-154 airplane ofKrasAir?
departing for Khurgada,? stated RIANovosti?s? spokesman.

  A group of five students from Dagestan were the last ones to board the
aircraft. Among them were two Egyptian women dressed in black.

  ?Considering the recent events, security services searched them
thoroughly. Their documents were fine; nothing was wrong with the luggage
either. However, due to such time-consuming security check, they were the
last ones to board the plane. This in turn caused major uproar among the
passengers. People demanded them to be taken off the flight,? added he.

  ?A young man accompanied by a woman and two children was the last one to
step aboard due to a long security check. They were on their way to Egypt,
where they?ve been living for five years. As soon as the rest of the
passengers saw them aboard, people simply refused to fly  perhaps, they
were fearful of a possible terrorist act,? noted the airline company?s
spokesman.

  In the course of the following two hours, airport and airline
spokespeople were trying to persuade the passengers to fly along with the
Egyptians. People however remained steadfast.

  All the passengers were then escorted back to the airport where each one
of them had to undergo additional security check. The two Egyptian women
have been examined publicly.

  There were 120 people aboard the Tu-154 airplane. As a result of this
little incident, the flight Moscow-Khurgada had eventually departed for
Egypt with a four-and-a-half-hour delay.

  Similar incident took place in Egypt on 1 September, 2004. Passengers
along with crew members of a Moscow-bound airplane (KrasAir) from Sharm el
Sheih refused to continue the flight after Egyptian personnel had allowed 2
Middle Eastern women to board the plane.

   According to the crew, both of the females behaved rather suspiciously:
they locked themselves up in the lavatory right after boarding. In the end,
due to the crew?s and the passenger?s protest, they were asked to leave the
plane.


--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct  3 16:54:15 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 16:54:15 -0700
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
Message-ID: <41609126.3DF831C8@cdc.gov>

At 08:30 PM 10/3/04 +0000, Justin wrote:
>On 2004-10-03T13:32:36-0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>>
>> The US *is* the Fourth Reich.
>
>Personally, I will take what comes.

You will make fine soap.




From die at dieconsulting.com  Sun Oct  3 15:37:13 2004
From: die at dieconsulting.com (Dave Emery)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 18:37:13 -0400
Subject: [TSCM-L] Technology boosts use of wiretaps
Message-ID: <20041003223713.GA11278@pig.dieconsulting.com>

Original URL: http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/oct04/263737.asp 


Technology boosts use of wiretaps
By DERRICK NUNNALLY
dnunnally at journalsentinel.com
Posted: Oct. 2, 2004
Madison - In an unassuming office building on a leafy street near Dane County Regional Airport, a couple rooms of computer equipment are quietly changing the nature of law enforcement in Wisconsin.

When they're clicking into action, most people won't even know they're there. And that's the point. They are wiretap machines, meant to allow police to listen in on the private phone conversations of suspected criminals.

For years, police here rarely resorted to wiretaps, which require a court order, and that was mostly limited to cases involving severe violence or the threat of it.

On average, it happened less than twice a year.

Now it happens more than once a month, due in large part to new computer technology that has streamlined much of what officials describe as a cumbersome, painstaking process. It included tracking down the phone company's switching equipment, setting up huge recorders and manually starting them with each call, and amassing half a room's worth of tapes, then methodically indexing them all.

"You'd have to have three reel-to-reel recorders for every line you'd want to wiretap," said Edward Wall, a special agent for covert surveillance in the state Department of Justice.

Wall held up a disk drive from the new system he said could hold 900 hours of recorded conversations, indexed at least half a dozen different ways. It was a little bigger than two CD cases held together, and, he said, held the power to make Wisconsin investigators much more willing to ask for wiretaps to investigate crime.

"When they find these are not as hard as they used to be, that mind-set is changing," Wall said.

Since the state acquired the new wiretap setup from the Office of National Drug Control Policy in summer 2003, the system has been used in the completed taps of 13 separate phone numbers, Wall said. That's a marked increase from recent years. Federal records indicate that from 1999-2002, while the nation averaged 1,200 wiretaps yearly, Wisconsin police had only run five.

While the system has not been discussed much outside of police circles, law enforcement agencies already have used it in at least a couple of high-profile operations, including the kidnapping of Heddy Braun in Walworth County in 2003 and a Milwaukee investigation this spring that led to the arrests of more than 30 people charged with being part of a cocaine-selling ring.

The role of the new wiretap machines has been kept hush-hush in part because of the state law restricting their use.

Because phone surveillance intrudes so seriously on someone's right to privacy, information gleaned from wiretaps only becomes public well into the court process, which can take months. Milwaukee police announced the dozens of arrests in the big drug case in a May news release, but much of the information about them remains under wraps and only has a chance of becoming public this month, long after the defendants have been formally charged and begun working their way through the judicial system.

Another reason for the new system's low profile until now was that police believed no good could come of advertising their new capability, Wall said.

Both the Milwaukee Police Department and the Milwaukee County sheriff's office, through spokespeople, declined to discuss the new technology.

Wall agreed to talk about it after the Department of Justice was asked specifically about its acquisition. He said he wanted to de-mystify a subject that, while not officially a secret, has inspired fears among some that the government, enabled by the USA Patriot Act of 2001, is tapping phones excessively.

"Those of us who do wiretaps just sit there and roll our eyes," Wall said of those concerns. "God, if you only knew what we had to go through for a wiretap. It's the most cumbersome thing in the world."

Police must get a judge's authorization for each phone number they want to monitor. To get that, investigators must put together a detailed affidavit explaining the kind of conversation they expect to hear, and why such evidence can't be obtained some other way.

Few of those affidavits have become public. Wall and other officials described them as onerous, but justly so. Now that the taps themselves are simpler to run and yield better data, authorities are exploring a wider range of reasons to ask for them.

"There was a time that I was much more reluctant to use wiretaps," said Milwaukee District Attorney E. Michael McCann, "but the violence attendant to various activities has persuaded me to the contrary."

Now cases such as the alleged drug ring - in which no violence or threat is evident in the small part of the allegations that have been made public - are coming into courts.

More are likely, and in more disparate parts of the state, as word of the new system's capabilities filters out, Wall said. Where formerly police in any part of the state had to seek out switching equipment - mostly in Madison or Milwaukee - to set up a wiretap, the new computer system can be run from Madison on "a phone from anywhere in the world" and piped out to any part of the state.

"When they give it to us, they're essentially giving it to 72 county sheriffs and 700 police departments," Wall said. "When you call me and you're from the Podunk Police Department, we're there."

Ray Dall'Osto, a Milwaukee defense attorney and former legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, said he is interested in examining the kinds of new wiretap cases and whether Wisconsin authorities use a wider range of justifications for listening in on citizens' conversations.

The right to privacy in certain situations, he said, is very fragile, like an egg.

"Once it's gone, it's very hard, if not impossible, to put back together," Dall'Osto said.

He also expects the uptick in wiretap usage to continue.

"They've got this stuff, and they've got to use it," Dall'Osto said.


-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  die at dieconsulting.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sun Oct  3 15:44:52 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:44:52 -0400
Subject: Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
Message-ID: <BAY24-F1753ZpEVmkWF0002bcc8@hotmail.com>

"DiDomenica has first-hand experience of the effectiveness of the system.
He was using his own observation techniques - called BASS (Behavior
Assessment Screening System) - last year when he saw man acting oddly near
the checkpoint and stopped him. The suspect passenger turned out to be an
agent from the Department of Homeland Security who had been trying to test
the system by sneaking a prohibited device onto a plane."

Come on. Variola or May or somebody wrote this shit, I'm no fool. Actually, 
it's quite hilarious. I couldn't have done any better myself.

-TD


>From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
>Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:37:57 -0400
>
>Wherein the TSA thinks they can observe a lot by watching...
>
>Cheers,
>RAH
>-------
>
><http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,708924,00.html>
>
>  Saturday, Oct. 02, 2004
>Spotting the Airline Terror Threat
>TIME exclusive: A new airport security system soon to be tested will rely
>on human judgment
>By  SALLY B. DONNELLY/WASHINGTON
>
>  TIME exclusive: A new airport security system soon to be tested will rely
>on human judgment  The most dangerous threat to commercial aviation is not
>so much the things bad people may be carrying, but the bad people
>themselves. That refrain heard constantly from airline security experts
>over the past three years appears to have finally been heeded by the
>Transportation Security Administration (TSA). Aviation sources tell TIME
>that the TSA plans to address the problem by launching its own passenger
>profiling system. The system known as SPOT (Screening of Passengers by
>Observation Techniques) relies more on the human dimension in detecting
>threats, and is to be tested at two northeastern airports starting later
>this month.
>
>  "This is a radical change to aviation security," says Sgt. Peter
>DiDomenica, the Massachusetts State Police officer who developed the
>racially-neutral profiling program in place at Boston's Logan Airport, on
>which SPOT is based. "This is a very subtle but very effective program."
>
>  Unlike the TSA's recently announced program to use computer databases to
>scan for suspicious individuals whose names occur on passenger lists, SPOT
>is instead based squarely on the human element: the ability of TSA
>employees to identify suspicious individuals by using the principles of
>surveillance and detection. Passengers who flag concerns by exhibiting
>unusual or anxious behavior will be pointed out to local police, who will
>then conduct face-to-face interviews to determine whether any threat
>exists. If such inquiries turn up other issues of concern, such as travel
>to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq or Sudan, for example, police officers
>will know to pursue the questioning or alert Federal counter-terrorism
>agents.
>
>  DiDomenica has first-hand experience of the effectiveness of the system.
>He was using his own observation techniques - called BASS (Behavior
>Assessment Screening System) - last year when he saw man acting oddly near
>the checkpoint and stopped him. The suspect passenger turned out to be an
>agent from the Department of Homeland Security who had been trying to test
>the system by sneaking a prohibited device onto a plane.
>
>  Although the profiling programs are aimed primarily at stopping
>terrorists, they have had other benefits. The Massachusetts State Police
>have arrested about 20 people for infractions ranging from being in the
>country illegally to failing to answer outstanding warrants for various
>offenses.
>
>  The TSA plans to test SPOT for 60 days before committing to taking it
>nationwide, eventually to all of the country's 429 commercial airports.
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From justin-cypherpunks at soze.net  Sun Oct  3 13:30:22 2004
From: justin-cypherpunks at soze.net (Justin)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:30:22 +0000
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <20041003133056.D50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01> <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
  <20041003133056.D50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041003203022.GB20745@arion.soze.net>

On 2004-10-03T13:32:36-0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> 
> The US *is* the Fourth Reich.

Personally, I will take what comes.

-- 
The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth,
and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails.  -- L. Ron Hubbard 




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Sun Oct  3 11:38:36 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:38:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <20041003133056.D50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01> <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft> 
  <20041003133056.D50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <0410032037550.0@somehost.domainz.com>

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> (1) There are also a number of non-rebar+concrete "walls" in place to keep
> US citizens from leaving;

Please elaborate?




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Sun Oct  3 12:54:25 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:54:25 +0100
Subject: comfortably numb
In-Reply-To: <41602DB1.B543AFFF@cdc.gov>
References: <41602DB1.B543AFFF@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <416058F1.3050703@gmx.co.uk>

Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> t 11:22 PM 10/1/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
> In the US its generally illegal to tattoo someone who is drunk.
Not sure about that - certainly its illegal in the UK to tattoo for a 
number of reasons, but the drunkenness one usually comes down to "is not 
capable of giving informed consent"
Not sure it would be illegal for someone to agree to the tattoo, then 
indulge in "dutch courage" before going though with it.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Oct  3 02:18:24 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:18:24 +1300
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <p0611045cbd83ad74e21c@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <E1CE2Vc-0008KP-00@medusa01>

"R. A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com> writes:

>NEWARK, Sept. 30 - Laetitia Bohn walked into Newark Liberty International
>Airport on Thursday, dazed and sleepy after an eight-hour flight from Paris,
>and was jolted from her reverie when an immigration officer asked for her
>photograph and fingerprints along with her passport.

The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through
the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure,
the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...

Peter (who'll be thinking really hard about any future conference trips to the
       US).




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Sun Oct  3 07:59:57 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 03:59:57 +1300
Subject: Foreign Travelers Face Fingerprints and Jet Lag
In-Reply-To: <1096813373.6398.3.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <E1CE7q9-0008VW-00@medusa01>

Steve Furlong <sfurlong at acmenet.net> writes:
>On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 05:18, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>>The US now has the dubious distinction of being more obnoxious to get through
>>the borders than the former East Germany (actually even without this measure,
>>the checks had become at least as obnoxious as the East German ones).  I
>>wonder whether the next step will be building a wall...
>
>Reign in the overheated rhetoric. The East German state built their wall to
>keep the East Germans from leaving, while the US policies are meant to keep
>out a demonstrated threat.

I never made any comment about who's keeping what in or out (the wall was
officially an anti-fascist protection barrier, also meant to keep out a
demonstrated threat).  What I was pointing out was that having been through
both East German and US border controls, the US ones were more obnoxious.

Peter.




From measl at mfn.org  Mon Oct  4 09:15:47 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:15:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Passengers refuse to fly with two women in black on board
In-Reply-To: <p0611044fbd8610901fbe@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611044fbd8610901fbe@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041004111430.C50014@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

>   All the passengers were then escorted back to the airport where each one
> of them had to undergo additional security check. The two Egyptian women
> have been examined publicly.

Publicly?  I'll go out on a limb here, since this is a "thorough search "
for terrorism, and assume this was a cavity search???

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

  "...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them."      Osama Bin Laden
	- - -

  "There aught to be limits to freedom!"    George Bush
	- - -

Which one scares you more?




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct  4 19:59:11 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:59:11 -0400
Subject: Internet Porn Gets A New Banker
Message-ID: <p0611045dbd87bd1d92c7@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.forbes.com/2004/09/27/cz_sl_0927ibill_print.html>

Forbes



Financial
Internet Porn Gets A New Banker
Seth Lubove,   09.27.04, 2:00 PM ET

South Jordan, Utah, just south of Salt Lake City, is an otherwise
forgettable suburb. Other than the fact that it's the home of the Jordan
River Utah Temple, which boasts the largest capacity of any Mormon church
in the world, there isn't much else going on.


 South Jordan has another claim to fame the Chamber of Commerce is probably
less eager to boast about: It's the hometown of what has likely become the
largest U.S. processor of credit cards used to purchase Internet porn.

 That dubious distinction comes courtesy of a little-noticed lawsuit filed
Sept. 17 by Internet Billing against First Data (nyse:  FDC -  news  -
people  ). IBill acts as a middleman between 4,000 small, mostly porn,
sites and the banks that are critical to any credit card transaction. In
iBill's case, the bank was an obscure unit of First Data, a financial
services giant that expects 2004 sales of $10 billion. But apparently fed
up with the connection to the controversial business, First Data finally
got out of porn on Sept. 15 when its contract with iBill expired, leaving
iBill in the lurch (but still holding $14.5 million of iBill's deposits).

 For now, at least. iBill has another bank lined up to process its $300
million or so in annual credit card purchases. But the name of the bank may
raise eyebrows amongst the tee totaling, clean-cut Mormons of South Jordan,
as well as the heathens on Wall Street: Merrick Bank, a $500 million-asset
bank whose parent company, credit card-servicer CardWorks, is partly owned
by a fund controlled by Lewis Ranieri, the bond trading legend immortalized
by Michael Lewis' Liar's Poker who is now chairman of Computer Associates
(nyse:  CA -  news  -  people  ).

 It turns out Merrick, which says it "believes in bettering the community
in which it operates," knows a thing or two about porn. The company is
already processing credit cards for CCBill, a big aggregator like iBill of
credit card purchases for Internet porn. CCBill handles sites that include
Soundpunishment.com, GothicSluts.com, and Threepillows.com.

 Not surprisingly, the bankers who handle porn don't advertise the fact.
First Data, for instance, managed to avoid any connection with porn until
it was revealed in public filings as the company that owned the bank that
handled iBill's porn processing. Merrick's name popped up for the first
time in iBill's lawsuit against First Data, in which iBill blamed First
Data for reneging on a deal to process its credit card accounts until it
gets set up at Merrick in November. The court denied iBill's request for a
preliminary injunction on Wednesday, Sept. 22.

 "We have determined that processing payments of the adult entertainment
marketplace is inconsistent with our core values," sniffs a First Data
spokesman. He adds that the company warned iBill with "multiple notices"
that its contract would not be extended after its expiration.

 In a written statement, Merrick would not comment on whether it also
processes credit cards for CCBill, and claims it is "not now processing
credit card transactions for iBill," and "has no signed agreement to
process credit card transactions for iBill." But in iBill's lawsuit against
First Data, iBill claims Merrick sent a "commitment letter" to First Data
on Sept. 15 in which Merrick states that its board of directors has
"approved" iBill as a "merchant" account.

 Christopher Steele, the attorney for Ranieri & Co., would only say that
Merrick's affairs are "handled much more from CardWorks perspective. I
can't give you a comment on that."

 iBill still managed to find other ways to handle its accounts in the
interim. But news of the lawsuit, and the apocalyptic language of
"catastrophic consequences" iBill used to argue for a temporary restraining
order, has set the gossipy porn industry into a full lather.

 "Industry Watching iBill, Hoping For The Best," trumpeted industry trade
Adult Video News. "This would be devastating," wailed a poster on a porn
business bulletin board.

 Adding insult to injury, the closing of a deal for iBill to be sold to
Care Concepts I (amex:  IBD -  news  -  people  ) in exchange for 20% of
Care's stock was rescinded Friday. The company said the American Stock
Exchange threatened to delist its stock, in part because the acquisition of
iBill "raises public interest concerns." The statement is a cryptic
reference to a section of the exchange's policies that allows it to delist
a company if it does anything that is "contrary to the public interest."

 Care said it will work with the Amex to resolve the exchange's issues and
acquire iBill after that. But perhaps proving that the temptations of the
flesh are hard to resist, Care said it will go ahead with the deal even if
the Amex disapproves, and take its stock elsewhere.




-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct  5 07:49:02 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:49:02 -0400
Subject: City Challenged on Fingerprinting Protesters
Message-ID: <p06110409bd883e355dee@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/nyregion/05prints.html?th=&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 5, 2004

City Challenged on Fingerprinting Protesters
By DIANE CARDWELL

ince coming under fire for their handling of protesters arrested during the
Republican convention, Bloomberg administration officials have said that
sluggish fingerprint processing in Albany was a major cause of the long
delays in releasing detainees, although state officials have denied any
tardiness.

Now it looks as if much of the fingerprinting may not have been legal in
the first place. According to lawyers at the New York Civil Liberties
Union, the city may have violated state law by routinely fingerprinting
arrested protesters.

 In a letter sent yesterday to Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly,
officials of the organization wrote that although the law allowed the
police to fingerprint people charged with minor offenses in certain
circumstances, "this could not justify the routine fingerprinting of the
nearly 1,500 people reportedly arrested during the convention for minor
offenses."

The officials, Donna Lieberman and Christopher Dunn, the group's executive
director and associate legal director respectively, wrote that state
criminal-procedure law defined narrow circumstances for fingerprinting when
the offenses are minor. Those circumstances are when the police cannot
establish the person's identity, when they suspect that the identification
supplied is not accurate, or when they suspect that there is an outstanding
warrant.

Legal questions about the fingerprinting policy have come up before. At a
hearing in September over the city's treatment of arrested protesters,
Justice John Cataldo of State Supreme Court in Manhattan noted that the
city could have dispensed with the fingerprinting entirely as most of the
offenses were so minor that state law did not require it.

Ms. Lieberman and Mr. Dunn also wrote that they found the "blanket
fingerprinting" of people arrested at demonstrations troubling because "the
entry of fingerprints into law enforcement databases can have lifelong
consequences."

 Normally, when a person is arrested and fingerprinted in New York, the
State Division of Criminal Justice Services checks the prints in its system
and sends them to the Federal Bureau of Investigation as well, state
officials said. Information about arrest records and outstanding warrants
is then sent back to the city's Police Department.

As a result, the lawyers wrote, they are "deeply troubled by the notion
that the N.Y.P.D. may have forced hundreds of political activists," as well
as "a number of innocent bystanders arrested during the convention, to
surrender their fingerprints for entry into state and federal databases."

Saying that they were prepared to sue the city if necessary, the lawyers
asked that any illegally obtained fingerprints held by the police, the
state or the F.B.I. be destroyed.

John Feinblatt, criminal justice coordinator for the Bloomberg
administration, defended the city's actions, saying the fingerprints were
automatically destroyed and therefore could not pose a threat to those
arrested in the future.

 "The normal procedure for violation arrests is to take fingerprints for
one purpose and one purpose only: to definitively establish who the person
is and whether he has a warrant or other law-enforcement hold," he said.
"After that the prints are destroyed and not made part of any permanent
record. That's exactly what was done with every violation during the
R.N.C., no more, no less."

Without commenting on whether the city had broken the law, he added, "In an
age of identity theft and high-quality fake ID's, fingerprints are the only
surefire way to establish who's in front of you." State and federal
officials said they did keep fingerprints from violation arrests.

 In the view of Mr. Dunn of the civil liberties union, though, destroying
the fingerprints would not remedy the fact that they were illegally taken.

"The practice has to stop," he said. "It's an unlawful practice. And more
importantly, we're skeptical that fingerprints that were sent to New York
State or the F.B.I. have been destroyed."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct  5 07:55:01 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:55:01 -0400
Subject: House 9/11 Bill Will Set Up A Database On All Americans, Create
   National ID Card
Message-ID: <p06110461bd886621b968@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.gunowners.org/a100404.htm>

www.gunowners.org
Oct 2004


GOA Alert-- October 04, 2004

 House 9/11 Bill Will Set Up A Database On All Americans, Create National
ID Card

 Gun Owners of America
 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102
 Springfield, VA 22151
 (703)321-8585

 Monday, October 4, 2004

 What part of "Constitution" don't they understand?

 In a frightening move, House Republicans -- members of the party that
supposedly favors "limited government" -- are pushing an Orwellian
nightmare in Congress in the name of "national security."

 In the wake of the 9/11 Commission's recommendations, the Senate -- unlike
the House -- has prepared legislation which would closely track that
Commission's findings by reorganizing the intelligence services in the
federal government. The Senate bill is relatively innocuous compared to the
House version, HR 10.

 Unfortunately, many of the so-called Republicans in the House are pushing
this nightmarish legislation which would:
 * Create a massive government database containing personal information on
every American man, woman and child;
 * Standardize (i.e., nationalize) the process of issuing driver's licenses
-- thereby taking the final step toward creating a national ID card; and
 * Set up a system whereby any employer or industry identified by the
Attorney General would have to submit employment applicants to the
government for approval -- complete with fingerprints or other "biometric
identifiers."

 Now, let's look at how each of these problems could affect your rights --
gun rights in particular:

 (1) The government database is created by section 2173 of HR 10, a bill
introduced by House Speaker Dennis Hastert. It would allow airline
passengers to be screened against lists containing "all appropriate
records." What would be "appropriate" would be within the exclusive
discretion of the bureaucrats, but could include medical records,
confidential financial records, library records, and gun records.

 (2) The driver's license standards are in section 3052. They would allow
the federal government to set standards as high as desired to determine who
may or may not obtain a driver's license. Please note that you need a
driver's license (or similarly regulated state-issued photo ID) to purchase
a gun from a dealer. But, increasingly, you also need it to travel on any
form of transportation (airplane, bus, train, car), to get a job, to open a
checking account, to cash a check, to check into a hotel, to rent a car, or
to purchase cigarettes or alcohol. If the federal government can set
standards so high as to deny you a driver's license or photo ID, it has
effectively turned you into a non-person.

 (3) Section 2142 would allow the U.S. attorney general to promulgate any
regulations he desires concerning (a) what employers must submit the names
and fingerprints of all employment applicants to the FBI, (b) what
standards the government will use in approving or disapproving the
employment applicants, and (c) whether or not the government's
"disapproval" will prevent the applicant from being hired.

 There is nothing in section 2142 which would prohibit an anti-gun attorney
general from (a) requiring the resumes and fingerprints of every employment
applicant in the country, (b) disapproving them on the basis of gun
ownership or, for that matter, any factor he viewed as not being
politically correct, and (c) prohibiting any employer from hiring an
applicant thus blacklisted.

 ACTION: Write your representative. Ask him, in the strongest terms, to
vote against any "9/11 legislation" that (1) creates a government database
of personal information on law-abiding Americans, (2) moves toward the use
of a driver's license as a National ID Card, or (3) sets up a system for
fingerprinting and approving job applicants in the private sector.

 You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by
visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm (where phone and fax numbers are also
available).

 ----- Pre-written message -----

 Dear Representative:

 Movement toward an oppressive government does not make me feel more "secure."

 Therefore, I would urge you, in the strongest terms, to please vote
against HR 10, The 9/11 Recommendations Implementation Act, if it:

 * Creates a massive government database containing personal information on
every American man, woman and child [section 2173];

 * Standardizes (i.e., nationalizes) the process of issuing driver's
licenses -- thereby taking the final step toward creating a national ID
card [section 3052];

 * Sets up a system whereby any employer or industry identified by the
Attorney General would have to submit employment applicants to the
government for approval -- complete with fingerprints or other "biometric
identifiers" [section 2142].

 Frankly, the ideas which are being floated with respect to this
legislation are simply horrible, and are surely unworthy of those who have
sworn to protect the Constitution.

 Sincerely,

 ***************************

 GOA Candidate Ratings Now Online

 The 2004 version of GOA's famous Candidate Ratings Guide has now been
posted at http://www.gunowners.org/votetb04.htm on the web.

 A survey was mailed to every identifiable candidate nationwide for this
year's Congressional elections. And every incumbent was rated based on his
or her gun rights voting record while in office. The result is a truly
comprehensive voter's guide that will prove invaluable to gun owners this
November. Be sure to take note of where your candidates stand on the Second
Amendment!

 Up to Home

Copyright, Contact and Credits

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct  5 07:56:29 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:56:29 -0400
Subject: National IDs for everybody?
Message-ID: <p06110411bd87a895c2f7@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.com.com/2102-1028_3-5395386.html?tag=st.util.print>

CNET News

 National IDs for everybody?

 By  Declan McCullagh
  http://news.com.com/National+IDs+for+everybody/2010-1028_3-5395386.html

 Story last modified October 4, 2004, 12:01 PM PDT


Rep. David Dreier wants to force all Americans to carry a national ID card
around with them.

The California Republican is not about to describe his new bill in those
terms, but that's the reality.

 Dreier's legislation would prohibit employers from hiring people unless
the job applicants first obtain new federal ID cards with their photograph,
Social Security number and an "encrypted electronic strip" with additional
information. Any employer who fails to comply faces hefty fines and prison
terms of up to five years.

 Dreier is smart enough to realize that these federal IDs would be
immediately forged, so he takes the next step of linking them to an
employment eligibility database that's queried by card readers whenever the
ID is swiped. The employment database is required to include "all such data
maintained by the Department of Homeland Security," combined with what the
Social Security Administration has on file.

 Most all bills die without the dignity of a floor vote. But Dreier is a
rising star in the Republican Party with the influence to enact legislation
quickly.

 As a chairman, he's one of the youngest to head the powerful House Rules
Committee, not to mention acting as co-chair of Californians for Bush and
chairman of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's transition team. In 1998, his
conservative voting record garnered a perfect 100 percent rating from the
Christian Coalition--and a zero percent rating from the left-leaning
Americans for Democratic Action. Last week, Dreier appeared on MSNBC as a
Republican spokesman before the presidential debate.

 Any employer who fails to comply faces hefty fines and prison terms of up
to five years.
 The ostensible reason Dreier gives for a federal ID: curbing illegal
immigration, the subject of a recent Time magazine cover story. "The
explosion in counterfeit identity documents and employers who are unable or
unwilling to establish the authenticity of documents presented by job
applicants severely undermines our national security," Dreier said when
introducing his bill, which he calls the Illegal Immigrant Enforcement and
Social Security Protection Act.

 The real reasons are slightly more complicated.

 Tight re-election campaign
 Dreier is used to commanding handsome victories at the polls every two
years over his Democratic rivals. But since 1996, Dreier's re-election
percentages have dipped below 60 percent a few times, and events in the
last month slammed the powerful Republican with a series of embarrassing
pre-Election Day setbacks.

 First came allegations in the LA Weekly newspaper and the New York Post
that Dreier, who has amassed a slew of anti-gay votes, is homosexual. Then
two local talk show hosts, John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou of KFI-AM 640,
became fed up with Dreier's stand on immigration.

 They organized a "Fire Dreier" rally on Sep. 15 on charges that illegal
immigrants from Mexico have wreaked havoc on California's economy. Held
outside Dreier's Glendora, Calif., office, it drew hundreds of protesters
armed with signs and bullhorns who called for a "political human
sacrifice," according to the Pasadena Star-News.

 The real problem with Dreier's plan is not that it creates an ID card.
Driver's licenses do that today.
 Conservative publications continued the attack--a worrisome sign for a
Republican who won't deny wanting to be speaker of the House someday.
WorldNetDaily columnist Jane Chastain wrote an article on Sept. 16
endorsing the Fire Dreier scheme: "It will leave congressmen, who have done
little or nothing to help stem the tide of illegal immigrates, quaking in
their boots."

 The upshot? Just hours before the Fire Dreier protest, the embattled
congressman informed the Claremont Kiwanis Club that he would introduce his
national ID bill. Six days later, Dreier did just that.

 The real problem with Dreier's plan is not that it creates an ID card.
Driver's licenses do that today.

 But Dreier would create a back-end database for authentication purposes
that could track whenever the ID is swiped. Just as the Social Security
Number's uses grew, those readers would appear just about everywhere:
banks, office buildings, supermarkets. Such a database would overflow with
detailed records of all of our life's activities and create an irresistible
temptation for misuse by corrupt officials or electronic intruders.

 Dreier isn't alone. A Senate bill introduced last month in response to the
9/11 Commission's report would give the Department of Homeland Security
unfettered power to regulate state drivers' licenses and ID cards. The
House version takes a similar approach.

 Both measures say federal agencies will only accept licenses and ID cards
that comply--a requirement that would affect anyone who wants to get a U.S.
passport, obtain Social Security benefits, or even wander into a federal
courthouse. States would be strong-armed into complying. Warns Barry
Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union: "Congress shouldn't be
providing a blank check to the Department of Homeland Security to design a
national driver's license."

 It's not just a liberal sentiment. Says Stephen Lilienthal, a policy
analyst at the conservative Free Congress Foundation: "Many conservatives
have expressed concern that proposals such as the Dreier bill are placed on
the books with a limited set of objectives but will expand bit by bit to
include all sorts of other information and be monitored constantly by the
government to keep track of individuals from cradle to grave."

 Dreier should take note. Talking loudly about ID cards may boost his
re-election bid next month, but voters won't be pleased when they've
figured out what it actually means.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From brands at credentica.com  Tue Oct  5 10:55:30 2004
From: brands at credentica.com (Stefan Brands)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:55:30 -0400
Subject: Credentica Web site is up
Message-ID: <mailman.1036.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Dear All,

This e-mail is to inform you that our corporate Web site at
http://www.credentica.com is up. We welcome any suggestions for
improvement, and encourage you to establish links to our home-page from
your blogs, news postings, and Web sites!

Best regards,
Stefan Brands
Credentica
740 Notre Dame W, #1500
Montreal, QC
Canada H3C 3X6
Tel: +1 (514) 866.6000

PS Pages that may be of particular interest:

- http://www.credentica.com/about.php (overview of what we do and how we
differ)

- http://www.credentica.com/solutions.php & submenus (explanations of
product benefits in key markets)

- http://www.credentica.com/the_mit_pressbook.php (the entire MIT Press
book available for free download)

White papers and product data sheets are in preparation and will be
posted in the next couple of months.

PPS The site is best viewed with a Javascript-enabled browser, and has
been tested only with leading browsers.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct  5 11:27:27 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:27:27 -0400
Subject: Credentica Web site is up
Message-ID: <p061104eabd8897de6292@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From adam at cypherspace.org  Tue Oct  5 14:13:47 2004
From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 17:13:47 -0400
Subject: Brands credential book online (pdf)
Message-ID: <20041005211347.GA26930@bitchcake.off.net>

For people interested in ecash / credential tech: Stefan Brands book
on his credential / ecash technology is now downloadable in pdf format
from credentica's web site:

	http://www.credentica.com/the_mit_pressbook.php

(previously it was only available in hardcopy, and only parts of the
content was described in academic papers).

also the credentica web site has gone live, lots of content. 

(credentica is Stefan's company around digital credentials).

Adam




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Tue Oct  5 09:48:30 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:48:30 +0100
Subject: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
In-Reply-To: <p061104f7bd822d38d257@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p061104f7bd822d38d257@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <4162D05E.8080605@gmx.co.uk>

R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> Two factors have made this possible: the
> vast stretches of optical fiber (lit and dark) laid in metropolitan areas,
which very conveniently was laid from one of your customers to another 
of your customers (not between telcos?) - or are they talking only 
having to lay new links for the "last mile" and splicing in one of the 
existing dark fibres (presumably ones without any repeaters on it)




From gnu at toad.com  Tue Oct  5 19:07:59 2004
From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:07:59 -0700
Subject: Interesting report on Dutch non-use of traffic data
Message-ID: <mailman.1037.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

 From EDRI-gram via Wendy Seltzer:

============================================================
4. Dutch police report: traffic data seldom essential
============================================================

Telephone traffic data are only necessary to solve crimes in a minority of
police investigations. Most cases can be solved without access to traffic
data, with the exception of large fraud investigations.

These are the conclusions of a Dutch police report produced at the request
of the Dutch ministry of Justice. The report was recently obtained by the
Dutch civil liberties organisation Bits of Freedom through a public access
request.

The report undermines the Dutch government's support to the EU draft
framework decision on data retention. The report makes no case for the
proposed data retention as Dutch police already uses traffic data in 90%
of all investigations. The police can already obtain, with a warrant, the
traffic data that telecommunication companies store for their own billing-
and business purposes. The report also shows that the use of traffic data
is a standard tool in police investigations and it not limited to cases of
organised crime or terrorism.

The report is the result of an evaluation of past investigations by the
Dutch police of Rotterdam. Two-thirds of all investigations could have
been solved if no traffic data would have been available at all. The three
main purposes of traffic data in police investigations are: network
analysis (searching for associations of a person to other individuals),
tactical support for surveillance and checking of alibis (through GSM
location data).

Police investigators can compensate a possible lack of traffic data by
other investigative methods such as wiretapping, surveillance, a
preservation order for traffic data and a longer investigative period. The
report states that police officers seldom ask for traffic data older than
six months.

The report was never sent to the Dutch parliament although members of
parliament previously asked for research results about the effectiveness
of mandatory data retention. After Bits of Freedom published the report
new questions have been raised in the Dutch parliament about the reason
for withholding the report.

The use of (historic) traffic data in investigations (April 2003, in Dutch)
http://www.bof.nl/docs/rapport_verkeersgegevens.pdf

(Contribution by Maurice Wessling, EDRI-member Bits of Freedom)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at metzdowd.com

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 17:32:35 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:32:35 -0400
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
Message-ID: <BAY24-F3407MJJQ873T000404a4@hotmail.com>

Actually, that's an interesting point.

In places like downtown NYC, if the fiber doesn't actually go to the 
basement of a building, it will certainly go within a few 100 feet, so that 
last hop is trivial. (But the kind of companies this would be targeted for 
this would already have fiber to the premises or FTTP anyway....however, 
that fiber will only on occasion make it all the way to the telecom 
room...the internal building wiring will often be copper.)

However, it's not like you'd have a continuous piece of fiber all the way 
from Customer X Location A to Customer X Location B...you'd definitely go 
through at least one fiber distributing frame (FDF) aka an optical "patch 
panel". However, the connectors will almost certainly be at least slightly 
anisotropic, so you'd get a wavefunction collapse, or at least diminish the 
distance you can go.

So I imagine they actually perform a splice and remove the connectors...this 
will limit you of course to new, high quality fiber (which is extremely 
isotropic, and I know this for a fact having previously done a lot of 
testing for PMD, or Polarization Mode Dispersion.)

An interesting thing to think about is the fact that in dense metro areas, 
you pretty much have a "star" from the CO out to a premise (which is the 
cause of deployment of "Collapsed SONET Rings"). This means the other photon 
of your encrypted pair might easily pass through the same CO somewhere, 
which would make the system suscpetible to a sort of man in the middle 
attack. Or at least, your fancy quantum crypto system has defaulted back to 
standard crypto in terms of its un-hackability.

Moral of this story is, even if this thing is useful, you'll probably have a 
very hard time finding a place it can be deployed and still retain its 
"advantages".

-TD


>From: Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk>
>To: Email List: Cryptography <cryptography at metzdowd.com>,        Email  
>List: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
>Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:48:30 +0100
>
>R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>>Two factors have made this possible: the
>>vast stretches of optical fiber (lit and dark) laid in metropolitan areas,
>which very conveniently was laid from one of your customers to another of 
>your customers (not between telcos?) - or are they talking only having to 
>lay new links for the "last mile" and splicing in one of the existing dark 
>fibres (presumably ones without any repeaters on it)

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement




From mv at cdc.gov  Tue Oct  5 22:33:58 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:33:58 -0700
Subject: City Challenged on Fingerprinting Protesters
Message-ID: <416383C6.E60C96EE@cdc.gov>

At 10:49 AM 10/5/04 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>Now it looks as if much of the fingerprinting may not have been legal
in
>the first place. According to lawyers at the New York Civil Liberties
>Union, the city may have violated state law by routinely fingerprinting

>arrested protesters.

There is a bill in this year's Ca election to require DNA sampling of
anyone arrested.  Not convicted of a felony, but arrested.




From rabbi at abditum.com  Wed Oct  6 02:54:44 2004
From: rabbi at abditum.com (Len Sassaman)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 02:54:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CodeCon 2005 Call for Papers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410060254160.9602@thetis.deor.org>

CodeCon 4.0
February 11-13, 2005
San Francisco CA, USA
www.codecon.org

Call For Papers

CodeCon is the premier showcase of cutting edge software development. It
is an excellent opportunity for programmers to demonstrate their work and
keep abreast of what's going on in their community.

All presentations must include working demonstrations, ideally accompanied
by source code. Presenters must be done by one of the active developers of
the code in question. We emphasize that demonstrations be of *working*
code.

We hereby solicit papers and demonstrations.

    * Papers and proposals due: December 15, 2005
    * Authors notified: January 1, 2005

Possible topics include, but are by no means restricted to:

    * community-based web sites - forums, weblogs, personals
    * development tools - languages, debuggers, version control
    * file sharing systems - swarming distribution, distributed search
    * security products - mail encryption, intrusion detection, firewalls

Presentations will be a 45 minutes long, with 15 minutes allocated for
Q&A. Overruns will be truncated.

Submission details:

Submissions are being accepted immediately. Acceptance dates are November
15, and December 15. After the first acceptance date, submissions will be
either accepted, rejected, or deferred to the second acceptance date.

The conference language is English.

Ideally, demonstrations should be usable by attendees with 802.11b
connected devices either via a web interface, or locally on Windows,
UNIX-like, or MacOS platforms. Cross-platform applications are most
desirable.

Our venue will be 21+.

To submit, send mail to submissions-2005 at codecon.org including the
following information:

    * Project name
    * url of project home page
    * tagline - one sentence or less summing up what the project does
    * names of presenter(s) and urls of their home pages, if they have any
    * one-paragraph bios of presenters, optional, under 100 words each
    * project history, under 150 words
    * what will be done in the project demo, under 200 words
    * slides to be shown during the presentation, if applicable
    * future plans

General Chairs: Jonathan Moore, Len Sassaman
Program Chair: Bram Cohen

Program Committee:

    * Jeremy Bornstein, AtomShockwave Corp., USA
    * Bram Cohen, BitTorrent, USA
    * Jered Floyd, Permabit, USA
    * Ian Goldberg, Zero-Knowledge Systems, CA
    * Dan Kaminsky, Avaya, USA
    * Klaus Kursawe, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, BE
    * Ben Laurie, A.L. Digital Ltd., UK
    * David Molnar, University of California, Berkeley, USA
    * Jonathan Moore, Mosuki, USA
    * Len Sassaman, Nomen Abditum Services, USA

Sponsorship:

If your organization is interested in sponsoring CodeCon, we would love to
hear from you. In particular, we are looking for sponsors for social meals
and parties on any of the three days of the conference, as well as
sponsors of the conference as a whole and donors of door prizes. If you
might be interested in sponsoring any of these aspects, please contact the
conference organizers at codecon-admin at codecon.org.

Press policy:

CodeCon provides a limited number of passes to bona fide press.
Complimentary press passes will be evaluated on request. Everyone is
welcome to pay the low registration fee to attend without an official
press credential.

Questions:

If you have questions about CodeCon, or would like to contact the
organizers, please mail codecon-admin at codecon.org. Please note this
address is only for questions and administrative requests, and not for
workshop presentation submissions.




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 03:27:37 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:27:37 +0100
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F3407MJJQ873T000404a4@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F3407MJJQ873T000404a4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4163C899.5040708@gmx.co.uk>

Tyler Durden wrote:
> An interesting thing to think about is the fact that in dense metro 
> areas, you pretty much have a "star" from the CO out to a premise (which 
> is the cause of deployment of "Collapsed SONET Rings"). This means the 
> other photon of your encrypted pair might easily pass through the same 
> CO somewhere, which would make the system suscpetible to a sort of man 
> in the middle attack. Or at least, your fancy quantum crypto system has 
> defaulted back to standard crypto in terms of its un-hackability.
   Unless I am mistaken as to the Quantum Key Exchange process, only one
photon is ever transmitted, with a known orientation; the system doesn't
use entanglement AFAIK.
   I note also that, as QKE is *extremely* vulnerable to MitM attacks, a
hybrid system (which need only be tactically secure, not strategically
secure) can be used to "lock out" a MitM attacker for long enough that
his presence can be detected, without having to resort to a classical
but unblockable out of band data stream.  I think this is part of the
purpose behind the following paper:
http://eprint.iacr.org/2004/229.pdf
which I am currently trying to understand and failing miserably at *sigh*

> Moral of this story is, even if this thing is useful, you'll probably 
> have a very hard time finding a place it can be deployed and still 
> retain its "advantages".
I have yet to see an advantage to QKE that even mildly justifies the
limitations and cost over anything more than a trivial link (two
buildings within easy walking distance, sending high volumes of
extremely sensitive material between them)


> 
> -TD
> 
> 
>> From: Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk>
>> To: Email List: Cryptography <cryptography at metzdowd.com>,        
>> Email  List: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>> Subject: Re: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
>> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:48:30 +0100
>>
>> R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>>
>>> Two factors have made this possible: the
>>> vast stretches of optical fiber (lit and dark) laid in metropolitan 
>>> areas,
>>
>> which very conveniently was laid from one of your customers to another 
>> of your customers (not between telcos?) - or are they talking only 
>> having to lay new links for the "last mile" and splicing in one of the 
>> existing dark fibres (presumably ones without any repeaters on it)
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how 
> to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement




From Claudia.Diaz at esat.kuleuven.ac.be  Wed Oct  6 03:45:49 2004
From: Claudia.Diaz at esat.kuleuven.ac.be (Claudia Diaz)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:45:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Announcement 5th APES Workshop
Message-ID: <mailman.1038.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>





Dear,

we are happy to announce the 5th Anonymity and Privacy in Electronic
Services Workshop. In the first part of the workshop, we will have two
invited talks (by Jan Camenisch and Dogan Kesdogan). During the second
part, the research partners of APES will present the results of the last
year.

You are kindly invited to attend. In order to estimate the number of
participants, we ask you to register by sending an email to Pila Noe
(Pela.Noe at esat.kuleuven.ac.be). Feel free to forward this email to anyone
who may be interested on the topic.

For more information on this project, you may look at the APES website
(https://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/apes)



5th APES WORKSHOP
-----------------

Date:       Tuesday, November 23rd
Location:   Auditorium A (ESAT, K.U. Leuven)
            Kasteelpark Arenberg 10
            B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee, Belgium

Fee: Free of charge. We kindly ask you to register in advance by sending
     an email to our secretary Pila Noe (Pela.Noe at esat.kuleuven.ac.be)


AGENDA
------

13:00-13:10 Welcome and Introduction by Bart Preneel (COSIC/KULeuven)

13:10-13:50 Invited talk: "Security and Privacy for E-Transactions" by Jan
            Camenisch (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory)

13:50-14:30 Invited talk: "Personal risk management" by Dogan Kesdogan
            (University of Aachen)

14:30-14:50 Coffee break

14:50-15:30 Anonymous communication infrastructure by Claudia Diaz
            (COSIC/KULeuven)

15:30-16:10 Controlled anonymous email by Vincent Naessens
            (DISTRINET/KULAK)

16:10-16:30 Controlled anonymous databases by Svetla Nikova
            (COSIC/KULeuven)



_______________________________________________
NymIP-res-group mailing list
NymIP-res-group at nymip.org
http://www.nymip.org/mailman/listinfo/nymip-res-group

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct  6 11:12:42 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:12:42 -0400
Subject: Announcement 5th APES Workshop
Message-ID: <p061104e2bd89e60ab68c@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From bjonkman at sobac.com  Wed Oct  6 13:29:29 2004
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:29:29 -0400
Subject: "ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F19Q6mBySsxVY00019bdb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41641D69.5090.D9F9EB@localhost>

This is what Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com> said
about ""ID Rules Exist, But Can't Be Seen"" on 30 Sep 2004 at 17:06

> For instance, is it indeed possible that revealing this rule would
> pose an additional security risk? If such a rule exists (and it does)
> then hijackers obviously already know about it. Could this rule also
> reveal some deeper secrets about how hijackers can be detected? I
> seriously doubt it.

There's some wonderful Sicilian Reasoning in that: We can't reveal the rule because 
the Bad Guys would figure out what we're looking for.  But the Bad Guys already know 
what we're looking for, but we'll keep the rule secret anyway because we know they 
know what we're looking for. The thing is, the Bad Guys know that too...




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 09:04:49 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:04:49 +0100
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <4163C899.5040708@gmx.co.uk>
References: <BAY24-F3407MJJQ873T000404a4@hotmail.com>
  <4163C899.5040708@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <416417A1.8090308@gmx.co.uk>

Dave Howe wrote:
>  I think this is part of the
> purpose behind the following paper:
> http://eprint.iacr.org/2004/229.pdf
> which I am currently trying to understand and failing miserably at *sigh*
Nope, finally strugged to the end to find a section pointing out that it 
does *not* prevent mitm attacks.
Anyone seen a paper on a scheme that does?




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct  6 09:06:51 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:06:51 +0100
Subject: City Challenged on Fingerprinting Protesters
In-Reply-To: <416383C6.E60C96EE@cdc.gov>
References: <416383C6.E60C96EE@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <4164181B.4090203@gmx.co.uk>

Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> There is a bill in this year's Ca election to require DNA sampling of
> anyone arrested.  Not convicted of a felony, but arrested.
Doesn't surprise me - the UK police collected a huge bunch of 
fingerprints and dna samples "for elimination purposes" during one of 
the child-murder witchhunts, with written promises given that the 
samples were just for that one task, and would be destroyed once the 
hunt was over.
They still kept them anyway of course, and made them the basis for their 
new "national dna database".




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct  6 16:31:30 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:31:30 -0400
Subject: Micropayments Are Multiplying
Message-ID: <p06110446bd8a308f2e12@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.emarketer.com/Article.aspx?1003079&printerFriendly=yes>

 Emarketer.com

Micropayments Are Multiplying

October 07, 2004

 Exactly 14 million Americans made online purchases for less than $2.00
over the past year, reports Ipsos.

A survey from Ipsos-Insight on the small payments market, released
yesterday at the Micropayments Conference in New York City, reported that
more than 14 million Americans, ages 12 and older, purchased digital
content for less than $2.00 in the past twelve months.

 The rate of small purchases is going up fast. In July, Ipsos-Insight
reported that more than 10 million Americans purchased digital content for
less than $2.00 in the past year, and in November the number of US
purchasers in the past year was approximately 4 million.

 In all, the 14 million represents an increase of over 10 million
micro-purchasers since October 2003, a 350% yearly increase.

 By comparison, the survey found that more than an estimated 37 million
Americans are willing to use credit, debit or charge cards for purchases of
$5.00 or less. "The data suggest that increasing the availability and
consumer awareness of compelling online content for less than $2.00 could
be the key to sparking growth in this emerging online commerce area," says
Matt Kleinschmit, Director, Ipsos-Insight.

 The survey estimates that 30 million Americans are at least somewhat
likely to purchase content for less than $2.00 in the next twelve months,
and states that the primary reason consumers have not yet made an online
purchase for $2 or less is lack of compelling content in the price range.

 In fact, more than 44% of those surveyed have made an online purchase in
the past year - and over 50% of them indicated that the main reasons they
have not made a micropayment was because it was not worth the effort, lack
of interesting content or availability of content.

 "The technology is available today to enable cost-effective sales of
low-priced digital content," emphasizes Mr. Kleinschmit. "The most
significant challenge is packaging and pricing the content to meet consumer
demand."

 Among consumers who had made online purchases of $2.00 or less, the most
commonly purchased items were ring tones, music, games and articles, so it
is not surprising that teens were the age group most likely to make
micro-purchases in the near future. Teenagers are also the most likely to
make purchases of under $20.00.

 While the Ipsos-Insight survey focused exclusively on the US and the
online environment, a study recently released by Juniper Research, "Mobile
Commerce (M-Commerce) & Micropayment Strategies," looked at the worldwide
micropayment market with an emphasis on the mobile channel.

 Juniper projects that the global mobile commerce market - excluding mobile
entertainment - will become a $40 billion industry by 2009, fuelled by a
growth in micropayments. Juniper reports: "Large numbers of small payments
will make up the vast majority of sales via mobile phones, with the average
Western European making approximately 28 transactions a year via the mobile
phone by 2009. The average cost of each transaction in 2009 in Western
Europe is expected to be worth approximately $3.00."

 Foreseeing the day when the mobile phone could develop into a full-fledged
digital wallet, the author of the report, Marc Ambasna-Jones, says the key
to m-commerce growth is simplicity: "Will it be easier to use than a credit
card for example? Can it ever be more convenient than cash? Ultimately the
success or failure of mobile commerce comes down to this."

 Bruce Cundiff, an analyst with Jupiter Research, told CNET that "what it
comes down to is that there simply must be a viable transaction model for
smaller-cost products to make a dollar off e-commerce sales."

 As these two new reports make clear, both online and on the phone, a lot
is riding on consumers' ability to pay very little - quickly, securely and
conveniently. But can the micropayment market put its history of failures
(Beenz, Flooz and DigiCash) behind and really start to churn out macro
revenues? As for now, no one knows for sure.

 


 )2004 eMarketer Inc. All rights reserved

  

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From shmoocon-news at lists.shmoo.com  Wed Oct  6 16:34:24 2004
From: shmoocon-news at lists.shmoo.com (shmoocon-news at lists.shmoo.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 19:34:24 -0400
Subject: [ShmooCon-News] First selected BoF run by Jon Callas, CTO,
	PGP Corporation
Message-ID: <mailman.1039.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

We're pleased to announce our first selected though-provoking and
potentially controversial BoF for ShmooCon 2005 will be run by Jon
Callas, CTO, PGP Corporation.  For more information check out:

http://www.shmoocon.org/program.html#callas

We look forward to folks discussing how "Information wants to be free,
but programmers want to eat."  Check it out!

Sincerely,

Beetle
_______________________________________________
Shmoocon-News mailing list
Shmoocon-News at lists.shmoo.com
https://lists.shmoo.com/mailman/listinfo/shmoocon-news

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Wed Oct  6 11:07:17 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:07:17 +0200
Subject: Interesting report on Dutch non-use of traffic data (fwd from
  gnu@toad.com)
Message-ID: <20041006180717.GW1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from John Gilmore <gnu at toad.com> -----


From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct  6 17:14:41 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:14:41 -0400
Subject: [ShmooCon-News] First selected BoF run by Jon Callas, CTO, 	PGP
   Corporation
Message-ID: <p0611044ebd8a3ac692ec@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From mv at cdc.gov  Wed Oct  6 20:38:53 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 20:38:53 -0700
Subject: City Challenged on Fingerprinting Protesters
Message-ID: <4164BA4D.C3086FE6@cdc.gov>

At 05:06 PM 10/6/04 +0100, Dave Howe wrote:
>Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>> There is a bill in this year's Ca election to require DNA sampling of

>> anyone arrested.  Not convicted of a felony, but arrested.

[as in arrested for protesting]

>Doesn't surprise me - the UK police collected a huge bunch of
>fingerprints and dna samples "for elimination purposes" during one of
>the child-murder witchhunts, with written promises given that the
>samples were just for that one task, and would be destroyed once the
>hunt was over.
>They still kept them anyway of course, and made them the basis for
their
>new "national dna database".

The UK is a fantastic example of the US in a few years.  In a way,
the UK population are beta testers for the statism of the future here.
If it passes in the UK, they'll try it in the US in a 'wee bit'.

Its when Ross Anderson ends up detained as an enemy combatant
that the sleeper cells (tm) will be triggered.

Not only DNA, of course; surveillance cameras, papers on demand,
domestic CIA (MI-blah) powers, etc.  And y'all are our obediant and
faithful military poodles.  Only the Aussies and Iberians have gotten
the feedback though.  Your turn will come.  Batman in a turban, mofo.

We sympathize, of course, protestant angliospeaking folks are regarded
as human, but bemoan your lack of constitutional
protections (here my more cynical friends accuse me of bill-o'-rights
religion)
and you must pay penance for Benny Hill, anyway.

<insert Franklin's security for freedom subversion here>

------
No one expects the BSA (in a silly voice)
------
\begin{TMay}
Funny how those needing killing are nearly universally elected or
appointed...
what was that old-school Frog's comment about democracy?
\end{TMay}

-----
Got ANFO?




From kapil_ds at MIT.EDU  Wed Oct  6 22:03:15 2004
From: kapil_ds at MIT.EDU (Kapil Dev Singh)
Date: Thu,  7 Oct 2004 01:03:15 -0400
Subject: RFID special interest group
Message-ID: <mailman.1040.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>


Hello Mr Hettinga,
  You had attended the RFID privacy workshop last fall at MIT, so i would like
to invite you to a RFID SIG event on behalf of MIT enterprise forum. Details
are given below. Please do come.

Thanks,
Kapil



RFID Special Interest Group (RFID SIG), a SIG established under MIT
Enterprise forum of Cambridge, would like invite you to its upcoming event.

     'Case Presentation: RFID Challenges in the Pharmaceutical Industry'

Keynote
       Jack DeAlmo: Vice President of Store Replenishment and Inventory
Management, CVS

Panel
      Nick Beim: General Partner, Matrix Partners
      Sanjay Sarma:Chief Technology Officer, Oat Systems
      Noha Tohamy: Principal Analyst, Forrester Research

When & Where:
     Wednesday, October 13, 2004,  5:30 PM ,
     STATA CENTER, Room 123 (Kirsch Auditorium), 32 Vassar Street, MIT


      The details are also at http://www.mitforumcambridge.org/events/oct04.htm

       RFID Special Interest Group seeks to establish a community around RFID.
The schedule of upcoming events, one every month, is available at

http://www.mitforumcambridge.org/RFIDSIG.html

       Join the community.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct  6 22:04:54 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 01:04:54 -0400
Subject: RFID special interest group
Message-ID: <p061104a8bd8a7edf891f@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From sunder at sunder.net  Thu Oct  7 03:19:43 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 06:19:43 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Most Disturbing Yet - Senate Wants Database Dragnet 
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410070615150.11233@silkworth.sunder.net>

http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,65242,00.html
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,65242,00.html

Senate Wants Database Dragnet 

By Ryan Singel  

02:00 AM Oct. 06, 2004 PT

The Senate could pass a bill as early as Wednesday evening that would let 
government counter-terrorist investigators instantly query a massive 
system of interconnected commercial and government databases that hold 
billions of records on Americans.

The proposed network is based on the Markle Foundation Task Force's 
December 2003 report, which envisioned a system that would allow FBI and 
CIA agents, as well as police officers and some companies, to quickly 
search intelligence, criminal and commercial databases. The proposal is so 
radical, the bill allocates $50 million just to fund the system's 
specifications and privacy policies. 

<SNIP>

To prevent abuses of the system, the Markle task force recommended 
anonymized technology, graduated levels of permission-based access and 
automated auditing software constantly hunting for abuses.

{Huh?  How would anonimized access PREVENT abuses?}

An appendix to the report went so far as to suggest that the system should 
"identify known associates of the terrorist suspect, within 30 seconds, 
using shared addressees, records of phone calls to and from the suspect's 
phone, e-mails to and from the suspect's accounts, financial transactions, 
travel history and reservations, and common memberships in organizations, 
including (with appropriate safeguards) religious and expressive 
organizations."

<SNIP>



----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From nobody at dizum.com  Wed Oct  6 23:20:04 2004
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Thu,  7 Oct 2004 08:20:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.
Message-ID: <8e5b8994046e2cba50b02a5311eb8d62@dizum.com>

Mexican Attorney General, Staff Get Chip Implants

Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.

The Attorney General of Mexico, Rafael Macedo de la Concha, recently 
announced at the opening of Mexico's National Information Center that
he
and some of his staff had been implanted with VeriChips to replace
their
ID 
tags for access to restricted areas, and to access the country's
crime 
database.

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/channel_story.php?channel=24&id=90885




From lloyd at randombit.net  Thu Oct  7 08:23:19 2004
From: lloyd at randombit.net (Jack Lloyd)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:23:19 -0400
Subject: Most Disturbing Yet - Senate Wants Database Dragnet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410070615150.11233@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410070615150.11233@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <20041007152319.GB12268@acm.jhu.edu>

On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 06:19:43AM -0400, Sunder wrote:

> <SNIP>
> 
> To prevent abuses of the system, the Markle task force recommended 
> anonymized technology, graduated levels of permission-based access and 
> automated auditing software constantly hunting for abuses.
> 
> {Huh?  How would anonimized access PREVENT abuses?}

One would hope that they meant anonymizing the subjects, much the same way some
medical databases are. It's nontrivial to implement well, though. And more
likely than not it won't be implemented at all, since it's much easier to just
give everyone full search abilities.

-Jack




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  7 08:57:50 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:57:50 -0400
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
Message-ID: <BAY24-F15wFDxchdpqp00050858@hotmail.com>

Oops. You're right. It's been a while. Both photons are not utilized, but 
there's a Private channel and a public channel. As for MITM attacks, 
however, it seems I was right more or less by accident, and the collapsed 
ring configuration seen in many tightly packed metro areas (where potential 
customers of Quantum Key Exchange reside) does indeed make such attacks much 
easier.

Come to think of it, an intruder that were able to gain access to a CO 
without having to notify the public (Patriot Act) should easily be able to 
insert themselves into a QKE client's network and then do whatever they want 
to (provided, of course, they have the means to crack the 'regular' 
encryption scheme used to encode the bits--NSA).

Which means that, should a $75K/year NSA employee want to strike it really, 
really rich, they'd be able to procure advanced notice of any 
mergers/acquisition deals.

-TD






>From: Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk>
>To: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
>Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:26:32 +0100
>
>Tyler Durden wrote:
>>An interesting thing to think about is the fact that in dense metro areas, 
>>you pretty much have a "star" from the CO out to a premise (which is the 
>>cause of deployment of "Collapsed SONET Rings"). This means the other 
>>photon of your encrypted pair might easily pass through the same CO 
>>somewhere, which would make the system suscpetible to a sort of man in the 
>>middle attack. Or at least, your fancy quantum crypto system has defaulted 
>>back to standard crypto in terms of its un-hackability.
>   Unless I am mistaken as to the Quantum Key Exchange process, only one 
>photon is ever transmitted, with a known orientation; the system doesn't 
>use entanglement AFAIK.
>   I note also that, as QKE is *extremely* vulnerable to MitM attacks, a 
>hybrid system (which need only be tactically secure, not strategically 
>secure) can be used to "lock out" a MitM attacker for long enough that his 
>presence can be detected, without having to resort to a classical but 
>unblockable out of band data stream.  I think this is part of the purpose 
>behind the following paper:
>http://eprint.iacr.org/2004/229.pdf
>which I am currently trying to understand and failing miserably at *sigh*
>
>>Moral of this story is, even if this thing is useful, you'll probably have 
>>a very hard time finding a place it can be deployed and still retain its 
>>"advantages".
>I have yet to see an advantage to QKE that even mildly justifies the 
>limitations and cost over anything more than a trivial link (two buildings 
>within easy walking distance, sending high volumes of extremely sensitive 
>material between them)
>
>
>>
>>-TD
>>
>>
>>>From: Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk>
>>>To: Email List: Cryptography <cryptography at metzdowd.com>,        Email  
>>>List: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>>>Subject: Re: QC Hype Watch: Quantum cryptography gets practical
>>>Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:48:30 +0100
>>>
>>>R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>>>
>>>>Two factors have made this possible: the
>>>>vast stretches of optical fiber (lit and dark) laid in metropolitan 
>>>>areas,
>>>
>>>which very conveniently was laid from one of your customers to another of 
>>>your customers (not between telcos?) - or are they talking only having to 
>>>lay new links for the "last mile" and splicing in one of the existing 
>>>dark fibres (presumably ones without any repeaters on it)
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
>>get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
>>
>>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From sunder at sunder.net  Thu Oct  7 11:14:17 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:14:17 -0400 (edt)
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410071412100.24940@silkworth.sunder.net>

So the cops and RFID h4x0rZ can know your true name from a distance.  and 
since RFID tags, are what, $0.05 each, the terrorists and ID 
counterfitters will be able to make fake ones too... Whee!


http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,65243,00.html

RFID Driver's Licenses Debated 
By Mark Baard

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,65243,00.html

09:50 AM Oct. 06, 2004 PT

Some federal and state government officials want to make state driver's 
licenses harder to counterfeit or steal, by adding computer chips that 
emit a radio signal bearing a license holder's unique, personal 
information.

In Virginia, where several of the 9/11 hijackers obtained driver's 
licenses, state legislators Wednesday will hear testimony about how radio 
frequency identification, or RFID, tags may prevent identity fraud and 
help thwart terrorists using falsified documents to move about the 
country.

Privacy advocates will argue that the radio tags will also make it easy 
for the government to spy on its citizens and exacerbate identity theft, 
one of the problems the technology is meant to relieve.

<SNIP>

Because information on RFID tags can be picked up from many feet away, 

<SNIP>

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Thu Oct  7 12:09:50 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 15:09:50 -0400
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <4163C899.5040708@gmx.co.uk>
References: <BAY24-F3407MJJQ873T000404a4@hotmail.com> 	
  <4163C899.5040708@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1097176190.6564.7.camel@daft>

On Wed, 2004-10-06 at 06:27, Dave Howe wrote:
> I have yet to see an advantage to QKE that even mildly justifies the
> limitations and cost over anything more than a trivial link (two
> buildings within easy walking distance, sending high volumes of
> extremely sensitive material between them)

But it's cool!

More seriously, it has no advantage now, but maybe something will come
up. The early telephones were about useless, too, remember. In the mean
time, the coolness factor will keep people playing with it and
researching it.




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Thu Oct  7 12:16:34 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 07 Oct 2004 15:16:34 -0400
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <41658FDD.7010809@gmx.co.uk>
References: <BAY24-F15wFDxchdpqp00050858@hotmail.com> 	
  <41658FDD.7010809@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1097176594.6564.14.camel@daft>

On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 14:50, Dave Howe wrote:
> The "regular encryption scheme" (last I looked at a QKE product) was XOR....

Well, if it's good enough for Microsoft, it's good enough for everyone.
I have it on good authority that Microsoft's designers and programmers
are second to none. (Microsoft's marketing department is a good
authority, right?)




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 11:50:05 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:50:05 +0100
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F15wFDxchdpqp00050858@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F15wFDxchdpqp00050858@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41658FDD.7010809@gmx.co.uk>

Tyler Durden wrote:
> Oops. You're right. It's been a while. Both photons are not utilized, 
> but there's a Private channel and a public channel. As for MITM attacks, 
> however, it seems I was right more or less by accident, and the 
> collapsed ring configuration seen in many tightly packed metro areas 
> (where potential customers of Quantum Key Exchange reside) does indeed 
> make such attacks much easier.
> 
> Come to think of it, an intruder that were able to gain access to a CO 
> without having to notify the public (Patriot Act) should easily be able 
> to insert themselves into a QKE client's network and then do whatever 
> they want to (provided, of course, they have the means to crack the 
> 'regular' encryption scheme used to encode the bits--NSA).
> 
> Which means that, should a $75K/year NSA employee want to strike it 
> really, really rich, they'd be able to procure advanced notice of any 
> mergers/acquisition deals.
Unless someone has come up with a new wrinkle to this since I last 
looked, the QKE system indeed requires three channels - the key photon 
one which must be optical, and a conventional comms pair (the latter of 
course can be substituted with any comms pair you have handy, but if you 
are running fibre from A to B you might as well run three)
As all three require MiTM to be mounted, it would be better to have a 
physically diverse path for the conventional pair - but in a small city 
where you are patching the optical channel though the nearest exchange, 
this may not be practicable.
The "regular encryption scheme" (last I looked at a QKE product) was XOR....




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Thu Oct  7 13:23:13 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 21:23:13 +0100
Subject: Quantum cryptography gets "practical"
In-Reply-To: <1097176594.6564.14.camel@daft>
References: <BAY24-F15wFDxchdpqp00050858@hotmail.com> 	 
  <41658FDD.7010809@gmx.co.uk> <1097176594.6564.14.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <4165A5B1.4050802@gmx.co.uk>

Steve Furlong wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 14:50, Dave Howe wrote:
>>The "regular encryption scheme" (last I looked at a QKE product) was XOR....
> Well, if it's good enough for Microsoft, it's good enough for everyone.
> I have it on good authority that Microsoft's designers and programmers
> are second to none. (Microsoft's marketing department is a good
> authority, right?)
well, what they *don't* tell you is the question was "which would you 
prefer to impliment security, a microsoft programmer or none at all" and 
they *still* came second :)




From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net  Fri Oct  8 00:01:59 2004
From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FBI Raids Indymedia
Message-ID: <200410080701.i9871xsa027591@artifact.psychedelic.net>

According to http://www.indymedia.it/, the FBI seized Indymedia's servers 
from their host, Rackspace.

> Thursday Oct 7 2004, at 6 PM, FBI issued an order to Rackspace in the US 
> (Indymedia's provider with offices in the US and London) to remove 
> physically two of our servers. The order was so short term that 
> Rackspace had to give away our hard drives in the UK. The servers 
> hosted numerous local IMCs, including italy.indymedia.org. If you find 
> a site is down: that might be the reason The reason why the hard drives 
> were taken are unknown.

And at http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/08/1097089554894.html

-----

The FBI has issued an order to hosting provider Rackspace in the US, 
ordering it to turn over two of the servers hosting the Independent Media 
Centre's websites in the UK, a statement from the group says.

Rackspace has offices in the US and the UK. Independent Media Center, 
which is better known as Indymedia, was set up in 1999 to provide 
grassroots coverage of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) protests in 
Seattle.

Rackspace complied with the FBI order, without first notifying Indymedia, 
and turned over Indymedia's server in the UK. This affects over 20 
Indymedia sites worldwide, the group said.

Indymedia said it did not know why the order had been issued as it was 
issued to Rackspace. Rackspace told some of the group's volunteers "they 
cannot provide Indymedia with any information regarding the order." ISPs 
have received gag orders in similar situations which prevent them from 
updating the parties involved on what is happening.

Indymedia said a second server was taken down at Rackspace. This provided 
streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (a Linux distribution), 
and a handful of miscellanous things.

In August the US Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt 
the New York city Independent Media Center before the Republican National 
COnvention by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the 
Netherlands.

Last month the US Federal Communications Commission shut down community 
radio stations around the US. Two weeks ago the FBI asked Indymedia to 
remove a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss 
police and IMC volunteers in Seattle were visited by the FBI on the same 
issue.

Indymedia said the list of local media collectives affected included 
Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, 
Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege, 
East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal, 
Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, UK, part of the Germany site, and the 
global Indymedia Radio site.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Thu Oct  7 16:35:23 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 01:35:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410071412100.24940@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410071412100.24940@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <0410080125570.11413@somehost.domainz.com>

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Sunder wrote:

> So the cops and RFID h4x0rZ can know your true name from a distance.  and 
> since RFID tags, are what, $0.05 each, the terrorists and ID 
> counterfitters will be able to make fake ones too... Whee!

Given the power requirements for doing anything more than dumb sequence 
repeat, I'd worry about the potential for replay attack and licence 
cloning.

Make a proof-of-concept device early after they start rolling the scheme 
out, publish on Slashdot, and see them retracting it as fast as they were 
deploying it.


A defense is a metal board in a wallet, close to the RFID chip's antenna. 
It is readable when the licence is taken out of the wallet. When inside, 
the antenna is quite effectively shielded. As a bonus, for many people 
this method can be seamlessly integrated to their mode of the document 
usage (leaving the privacy implications of the "legitimate" readers aside 
for now, talking about the unauthorized remote readers only here).




From measl at mfn.org  Fri Oct  8 02:00:16 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 04:00:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: FBI Raids Indymedia
In-Reply-To: <200410080701.i9871xsa027591@artifact.psychedelic.net>
References: <200410080701.i9871xsa027591@artifact.psychedelic.net>
Message-ID: <20041008035702.O70364@ubzr.zsa.bet>

Unfortunately, which the Angry Little Fascist Midget Fuck (formerly known
as George W. Bush) may have started this ball rolling, the Tall Fascist
NotAtAll Midget Fuck (formerly known as Kerry) will not do anything to
curb this kind of illegal and immoral behaviour if elected.

They are both within a few blocks of me for tomorrows debate.  Will
someone please just nuke the whole 1 mile square block and get it over
with?  My coordinates are in DNS ("loc").

<disclaimer> This is a WISH, not a threat.  I am way too much of a pussy
to just do it myself, but would die happy knowing I was sharing a fireball
with these two evil fuckers...
</disclaimer>




On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Eric Cordian wrote:

> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Eric Cordian <emc at artifact.psychedelic.net>
> To: cypherpunks at minder.net
> Subject: FBI Raids Indymedia
>
>
> According to http://www.indymedia.it/, the FBI seized Indymedia's servers
> from their host, Rackspace.
>
> > Thursday Oct 7 2004, at 6 PM, FBI issued an order to Rackspace in the US
> > (Indymedia's provider with offices in the US and London) to remove
> > physically two of our servers. The order was so short term that
> > Rackspace had to give away our hard drives in the UK. The servers
> > hosted numerous local IMCs, including italy.indymedia.org. If you find
> > a site is down: that might be the reason The reason why the hard drives
> > were taken are unknown.
>
> And at http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/08/1097089554894.html
>
> -----
>
> The FBI has issued an order to hosting provider Rackspace in the US,
> ordering it to turn over two of the servers hosting the Independent Media
> Centre's websites in the UK, a statement from the group says.
>
> Rackspace has offices in the US and the UK. Independent Media Center,
> which is better known as Indymedia, was set up in 1999 to provide
> grassroots coverage of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) protests in
> Seattle.
>
> Rackspace complied with the FBI order, without first notifying Indymedia,
> and turned over Indymedia's server in the UK. This affects over 20
> Indymedia sites worldwide, the group said.
>
> Indymedia said it did not know why the order had been issued as it was
> issued to Rackspace. Rackspace told some of the group's volunteers "they
> cannot provide Indymedia with any information regarding the order." ISPs
> have received gag orders in similar situations which prevent them from
> updating the parties involved on what is happening.
>
> Indymedia said a second server was taken down at Rackspace. This provided
> streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (a Linux distribution),
> and a handful of miscellanous things.
>
> In August the US Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt
> the New York city Independent Media Center before the Republican National
> COnvention by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the
> Netherlands.
>
> Last month the US Federal Communications Commission shut down community
> radio stations around the US. Two weeks ago the FBI asked Indymedia to
> remove a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss
> police and IMC volunteers in Seattle were visited by the FBI on the same
> issue.
>
> Indymedia said the list of local media collectives affected included
> Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes,
> Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege,
> East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal,
> Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, UK, part of the Germany site, and the
> global Indymedia Radio site.
>
>

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

  "...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them."      Osama Bin Laden
	- - -

  "There aught to be limits to freedom!"    George Bush
	- - -

Which one scares you more?




From sunder at sunder.net  Fri Oct  8 04:00:20 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:00:20 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Bush "wins"
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410080659030.5136@silkworth.sunder.net>

http://www.boingboing.net/images/wbay.jpg

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/07/tv_station_reports_t.html

Thursday, October 7, 2004
TV station reports that Bush has been elected President
WBAY TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin is running an AP article reporting that 
Bush has won the election, weeks before the election is to take place. 
(Click image for enlargement."

    wbayAt this hour, President Bush has won re-election as president by a 
47 percent to 43 percent margin in the popular vote nationwide. Ralph 
Nader has 1 percent of the vote nationwide. That's with 51 percent of the 
precincts reporting....

<SNIP>


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct  8 16:14:08 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:14:08 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
  real  money)
Message-ID: <p061104d1bd8cca8045b9@[66.149.49.5]>

Okay. So I'm coming to the conclusion that book-entry settlement, with its
absolute requirement for both "identity" and float between transactions, is
becoming more and more *un*-safe to use as internet ubiquity increases.

Anyone want to pick up the other side of this and tell me why not?

No bugbears or horsemen need apply...

Cheers,
RAH
-------


<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6175738/print/1/displaymode/1098/>
  MSNBC.com

Fake companies, real money
Elaborate con wrings cash out of stolen credit cards
By Bob Sullivan
Technology correspondent
MSNBC
Updated: 7:15 p.m. ET Oct. 7, 2004


T-Data, a small New-York based software company, doesn't take credit cards
-- never has in its 20-year history. But a few weeks ago, owner Jeff Duhl
found himself looking over $15,000 worth of credit card charges seemingly
accepted by his store.

A quick investigation revealed most of the charges had been made using
stolen credit cards. Slowly, he caught on: Someone had stolen a batch of
credit card accounts, then stolen his company's name, set up an imposter
version of T-Data, and rung up thousands of dollars worth of fake
purchases. The "profits" were then desposited into checking accounts
controlled by the imposters.

"It is ingenious," said Dan Clements, who operates merchant advocacy site
CardCops.com.

Duhl wasn't the only victim of this new brand of corporate identity theft:
At least 50 other firms apparently also had their identities stolen in the
scheme. For credit card thieves doing their best to wring money out of a
stash of stolen accounts, it seems like the perfect scam.

How to profit from stolen credit cards
While millions of credit card account numbers are stolen every year -- 60
million last year, and perhaps 120 million this year, according to one
estimate -- turning them into cash can be tricky. Merchandise ordered with
the card must be delivered somewhere, which is risky. Massive cash
withdrawals are quickly spotted by credit card associations. 

 The scheme Duhl's firm was caught up in is a heady, complex alternative:

First, credit card thieves find a legitimate company unlikely to already be
accepting credit card transactions. They then impersonate that company and
set up accounts with merchant processing providers, whose role it is to
transfer funds between credit card companies and merchants.

 Using stolen credit cards, the thieves then start sending small payments,
usually $498 or $598 at a time, to the fraudulent merchant accounts. The
credit card companies send funds to the processors and they in turn send
the funds off to bank accounts controlled by the criminals.

"They are flying under the radar on each transaction unless someone does a
whole lot of work," Duhl said.

 A key part of the scheme: The thieves went to the trouble of registering
the domain www.T-datasoftware.com, then set up a fake Web site. The site
looked like a believable business to the merchant processing providers, who
gave the thieves their accounts.

Duhl's imposters were able to set up accounts at seven different payment
processing firms. When Duhl investigated, he discovered some 50 other Web
sites -- most mere imitations of one another -- all sitting on the same
computer server.

"They got away with $15,000 (in charges) at my company," Duhl said.
"Multiply that by the number of sites, the number of companies, these folks
could be getting away with millions of dollars," he said.

It's not clear how much money the criminals really did get away with in the
end. Many of the processing firms interviewed for this article claimed they
caught on to the fraud after the transactions had cleared, but before the
suspects had withdrawn the money from various checking accounts around the
country.  One did concede, however, that the scheme has real potential.

'Hundreds of thousands' over a weekend
"If you don't catch it you could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over
a weekend," said David Steinberg, chief credit officer at Merchant E
Solutions, one of the processing firms used by the thieves. 

 Steinberg said his company had never suffered such a loss, but that the
industry is bustling with fraud attempts. Some 5 to 10 percent of all
applications his firm receives are turned away as potentially fraudulent,
he said.

Phyllis McNeill, a spokeswoman for Global Payments, another processing firm
hit in the scam, confirmed a fake account had been set up in T-Data's name
with her company. She said the account was actually set up through a
reseller, and was shut down after eight transactions had been performed.

Randy Lobban, director of risk management at North American Bancard, said
the con artists were able to open up an account at his firm and pass eight
charges through the system, but the funds were never released.

"They never got any money," Lobban said. He alerted the U.S. Postal
Inspection Service to the incident.

Representatives at First Data and Wells Fargo also confirmed that fake
accounts had been opened at their firms.

 An official at Beacon Bank in Minnesota, where one of the checking
accounts used to receive the stolen funds had been set up, confirmed that
he had discussed the situation with Duhl, but would not provide further
comment.

 Corporate ID theft
Whoever impersonated T-Data were clever enough to throw a few monkey
wrenches in the path of anyone trying to detect them.

When applying for the compulsory credit check needed to obtain the fake
merchant account, for example, the thieves didn't use T-Data's tax ID
number. Instead, they used the name and credit profile of a man unconnected
with the company. Steven Wiencek, who lives on Long Island near the
company, didn't even know his credit had been checked until contacted by
MSNBC.com for this story.

But the application, which listed Wiencek as company president, gives his
Social Security number and driver's license number, suggesting the people
behind this scheme have access to a wide swath of stolen credit cards and
stolen identities.

Another attempt at misdirection was foiled by an alert mail carrier.

 The application for the merchant account used a slight variation of Duhl's
address -- apparently an attempt to ensure that mail to Duhl would be lost.
But a knowledgeable local postal worker recognized the company name anyway,
leading Duhl to discover the dupe.

"Without that, I may not have found out about this for a long time," he said.

 The thieves were also persistent. Using one stolen credit card, they
attempted to steal $2,500 through five separate faked merchant accounts,
according to an affidavit of credit card fraud supplied by Duhl.

 Another corporate ID victim, John Bartholomew of Abcom Services, said he
was lucky, because Duhl contacted him just as the scam began.

 "We are a management company in long-term health care. We would have no
reason to use credit cards," he said. The firm had been in business for 21
years, and never accepted a single charge -- until the criminals stole his
company's name, Bartholomew said.

True to form, the criminals hijacked his brand name and set up merchants
accounts using his company's name and a similar -- but slightly altered --
street address.

 The good news is, Bartholomew was able to warn the merchant account
providers soon enough that only about $4,000 in charges were run through
his company's name. The bad news is, some of the providers are still trying
to make him pay the bill for the charges. He figures he's spent about
$5,000 in legal fees trying to clean up the mess.

Who are they working with?
Rob Douglas, a consultant who operates PrivacyToday.com, blames the
merchant account providers for never checking to see if the name on the
account application actually represented a real person who worked at the
firm.

"You have to ask what the companies that set up the merchant accounts are
doing?" he said. "Who has the responsibility to do due diligence that they
are in fact working with who they think they are working with when they
open an account?"

But several of the merchant service providers pointed out the difficulty of
stopping all fraudulent applications in a world where identities are so
easily stolen. 

 "For all of us, it's a tough business," Steinberg, of Merchant E Services,
said. "It's a large, large problem."

Duhl himself blames the banks where the money was to eventually wind up --
wondering how the thieves were able to set up accounts in the post-Patriot
Act era. Apparently worried as much about security implications as his
personal loss, Duhl contacted the FBI, the Secret Service and the U.S.
Postal Inspector's Office.  None of the agents he spoke to returned phone
calls placed by MSNBC.com.

 He says he is frustrated that none of the agencies seem to have taken any
interest in the incident -- particularly because at least one phone call
was placed to Pakistan using the cell phone purchased in his company's
name, and one of the bank accounts used to funnel money was established by
suspects who presented Russian passports as identification, he says his own
research revealed. 

 "No one in the government seems like they are going to get interested in
establishing a case," Duhl said.

 Douglas, who consults with firms trying to deal with the new trend of
corporate identity theft, says there's little small companies like Duhl's
can do to prevent this kind of incident. But one piece of practical advice
he offers larger firms: search the Web once a week for evidence of
impersonation.

"As strange as it sounds, companies need to have one or more people
assigned to surf the Web and see if there are mirror sites out there, just
like we tell parents to surf for their child's name," he said.

Bob Sullivan is the author of Your Evil Twin: Behind the Identity Theft
Epidemic

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct  8 22:57:28 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:57:28 -0700
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
In-Reply-To: <0410080125570.11413@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410071412100.24940@silkworth.sunder.net> 
  <0410080125570.11413@somehost.domainz.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041008225450.0424ab78@pop.idiom.com>

>On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Sunder wrote:
> > So the cops and RFID h4x0rZ can know your true name from a distance.  and
> > since RFID tags, are what, $0.05 each, the terrorists and ID
> > counterfitters will be able to make fake ones too... Whee!
>At 04:35 PM 10/7/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
>A defense is a metal board in a wallet, close to the RFID chip's antenna.
>It is readable when the licence is taken out of the wallet. When inside,
>the antenna is quite effectively shielded.

Tinfoil Wallets, anybody?  :-)

Actually, does anybody know if metallized mylar would do a good job
of blocking RFID readers, or if that carbon-fiber insulating cloth
that's useful for RF-shielded rooms would work well enough?

Also sounds like a good reason to carry a Rivest RFID blocker in your wallet.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Sat Oct  9 04:44:53 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 07:44:53 -0400
Subject: Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.
In-Reply-To: <8e5b8994046e2cba50b02a5311eb8d62@dizum.com>
References: <8e5b8994046e2cba50b02a5311eb8d62@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <1097322293.12743.12.camel@daft>

On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 02:20, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Mexican Attorney General, Staff Get Chip Implants
> 
> Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.

I think I'd get the implant under my scalp somewhere. If the implant
gave access to a really critical place, I wouldn't want to risk losing
an arm or whatever. Also, I'd be able to block the implant's signals
with my nifty tinfoil hat. I've been waiting for a use for that thing.




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct  9 09:03:22 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 09:03:22 -0700
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
Message-ID: <41680BCA.BF9B9C8E@cdc.gov>

At 10:57 PM 10/8/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>At 04:35 PM 10/7/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
>>A defense is a metal board in a wallet, close to the RFID chip's
antenna.
>>It is readable when the licence is taken out of the wallet. When
inside,
>>the antenna is quite effectively shielded.
>
>Tinfoil Wallets, anybody?  :-)

When you get your driver's license, you should run a magnet over
it to keep iron oxides from staining your wallet.  And apparently
you should now microwave it to clean those DMV-employee pathogens
from it.  Then it will be safe to carry, and you can see for yourself
what it tells
everyone else ---part of the definition of safety.




From rsw at jfet.org  Sat Oct  9 07:28:27 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:28:27 -0500
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041008225450.0424ab78@pop.idiom.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410071412100.24940@silkworth.sunder.net>
  <0410080125570.11413@somehost.domainz.com>
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041008225450.0424ab78@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <20041009142826.GA9218@jfet.org>

Bill Stewart <bill.stewart at pobox.com> wrote:
> Tinfoil Wallets, anybody?  :-)

My wallet is a metal cigarette case.  It's quite effective at blocking
RFID, proxcards, &c.

Plus, it's chic enough that almost no one considers the paranoia aspect.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct  9 06:52:05 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:52:05 -0400
Subject: Once Again, America First
Message-ID: <p06110410bd8d98b09a35@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/books/review/10FOERL.html?8bu=&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 10, 2004
ESSAY

Once Again, America First
By FRANKLIN FOER

N May 4, American conservatism took an unexpected turn. That morning,
George Will -- the movement's most influential columnist, one of its icons
-- slapped George W. Bush with a tart reprimand. For a year, Will had
obliquely hinted of his grave misgivings about the Iraq war and the push to
democratize the Middle East. But with the insurgency escalating, he now
felt obliged to state his frustration bluntly. ''This administration cannot
be trusted to govern if it cannot be counted on to think and, having
thought, to have second thoughts,'' he wrote.

 From the war's start, a few stray conservatives have criticized it. The
columnist Patrick J. Buchanan vociferously opposed Bush's campaign against
Saddam Hussein, just as he had opposed the one waged by Bush's father.
Other opponents resided in heterodox corners of the movement like the
libertarian Cato Institute and the traditionalist Chronicles magazine. But
Will's migration toward the antiwar camp represented a significant shift:
full-fledged members of the conservative establishment were now expressing
doubts about the prospects for American success in Iraq. Indeed, Will has
been joined by a small legion, from the powerful Representative Henry Hyde
to the influential lobbyist Stephen Moore. ''I supported the war and now I
feel foolish,'' the conservative commentator Tucker Carlson confessed to
The New York Times.

 While this backlash against the war may seem unexpected -- the Bush
presidency has inspired fierce loyalty from conservatives -- it is hardly
surprising if one looks at the movement's past. The right's skepticism of
the state has long reverberated within its foreign policy. Conservatives
have raised questions about the ability of the American government to
spread democracy abroad, just as they have doubted its ability to deliver
social welfare at home. They have long feared that wartime is like a strong
fertilizer heaped on government, causing it to sprout new departments and
programs that never manage to disappear once peace resumes. For most of the
cold war, conservatism sublimated these doubts to pursue its overriding
objective of eliminating global Communism. But with the Iraq war hitting a
rough patch, this anti-interventionist tradition is suddenly poised for
revival.

 The conservative movement has its own creation myth, told in books like
William A. Rusher's ''Rise of the Right.'' Before the early 1950's, these
histories usually begin, there was no such thing as a conservative. Sure,
you could find scattered libertarians and traditionalists camped in obscure
little magazines. But they hardly constituted a movement, and they
certainly didn't have a coherent ideology. In the early 50's, however, the
tide began to turn. Whittaker Chambers unleashed his masterwork,
''Witness,'' in 1952, and Russell Kirk published ''The Conservative Mind''
a year later. Two years after that, National Review was founded to bottle
this new energy and serve as a vanguard for a coalescing movement.

 This version of events almost makes it seem as if the right mystically
appeared from nowhere. It's easy to understand why conservatives would want
their movement's biography to exclude its earlier history. Before World War
II, isolationism had been a major tendency, perhaps the major tendency, on
the right. And by the 50's, isolationism had been badly (often unfairly)
stigmatized.

 One of conservatism's early and now largely forgotten folk heroes was
Albert Jay Nock, the flamboyant author of ''Memoirs of a Superfluous Man,''
who wore a cape and celebrated Belgium as his ideal society. In 1933, Nock
wrote about ''the Remnant,'' borrowing the term from Matthew Arnold and the
Book of Isaiah. By the Remnant he meant an enlightened elite that rejected
the phoniness of mass society. A few historians have used Remnant as a
synonym for the pre-National Review right -- a group that included the
economic journalists Garet Garrett and Frank Chodorov, Ayn Rand, Rose
Wilder Lane (Laura Ingalls Wilder's daughter) and, to an extent, H. L.
Mencken. Nock's allusion to Isaiah works nicely for these polemicists, who
issued thunderous, Old Testament-like warnings about American decline.
Finding themselves at the forefront of opposition to World War II, they
turned to the America First movement. Their hatred for war followed from
their radical individualism. As the essayist Randolph Bourne (not a
conservative) famously put it about World War I, ''War is the health of the
state.'' Since these writers disliked the state, they came to dislike war,
too.

 While the greatest generation has become deeply etched into the national
mythology, only a smattering of scholarly monographs, like Wayne S. Cole's
''Roosevelt and the Isolationists, 1932-1945,'' have dwelt on the
opposition to World War II. But the America First Committee achieved a
significant following in the late 30's. At its pre-Pearl Harbor peak, it
claimed approximately 800,000 members -- and not just angry farmers and
protofascists. Its Yale Law School chapter included Gerald Ford and Potter
Stewart, the future Supreme Court justice; John F. Kennedy sent the
organization a $100 check.

 Even though the antiwar movement drew support from across the political
spectrum, it included many of the intellectuals and activists who would
help revitalize the conservative movement in the 50's. Russell Kirk
supported the Socialist Norman Thomas because of his antiwar stand. Henry
Regnery, the seminal conservative publisher (whose house, now run by his
son, Alfred, has had a recent success with ''Unfit for Command''), broke
into the business with pro-German tracts critical of the Nuremberg trials.
Willmoore Kendall, William F. Buckley's intellectual mentor at Yale and the
inspiration for Saul Bellow's short story ''Mosby's Memoirs,'' began on the
far left. But when his comrades renounced their neutrality to side with the
Allies, a disillusioned Kendall took a major leap in his journey rightward.
As a precocious child, Buckley followed his father's anti-interventionist
politics and named his first sailboat Sweet Isolation. At times, these
conservatives foreshadowed the arguments made by 60's radicals opposing
American intervention in Vietnam. In a wartime speech, the Ohio senator
Robert A. Taft intoned, ''Political power over other nations, however
benevolent its purposes, leads inevitably to imperialism.''

 So how did these isolationists turn into the cold war's most fervent
hawks? The most persuasive explanation is also the most obvious: Communism.
National Review -- filled with Catholics and former leftists -- viewed the
Soviet Union as such an overwhelming threat that it willingly set aside its
fear that the cold war would create a Leviathan federal government. In
fact, anti-Communism's primary importance to the movement came to be
enshrined in a doctrine called fusionism, formulated by the National Review
writer Frank Meyer, an ex-Communist. The doctrine, which Meyer hashed out
in his 1962 book, ''In Defense of Freedom,'' held that conservatism's
competing wings, traditionalist and libertarian, should make ideological
peace. Above all, they faced a common Red enemy.

 Even if they hadn't been so eager to combat Communism, conservatives would
have had good political reasons to distance themselves from their earlier
isolationism. After Pearl Harbor, public opinion swung heavily in support
of the war. In the process, isolationism emerged as a synonym for
disloyalty and anti-Semitism. At the height of the so-called Brown Scare,
Walter Winchell read the names of isolationists on the radio and pronounced
them ''Americans we can do without.''

 Given the abuse suffered by isolationists during World War II, it may seem
surprising that they often became the most fervent boosters of the fierce
cold warrior Joseph McCarthy. But in fact, McCarthy helped ease the
isolationists into their new hawkish identity. In his history of the
postwar era, ''Troubled Journey,'' Fred Siegel argues that McCarthy served
as the isolationists' ''tribune of revenge.'' He enabled them to retaliate
against the internationalist liberals who had sent our boys to war, and to
strike back at the very men who had tarred them as traitors during the
struggle against fascism. As George H. Nash put it in his classic book,
''The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America Since 1945,'' Joseph
McCarthy's crusade had drawn many of the embattled conservatives together
in ''a bruising common struggle.''

 But it hadn't drawn all of them together. Conservatism emerged out of the
McCarthyite moment with a new enemy: that small band of conservatives who
continued clinging to isolationism. National Review, for one, didn't have
any place for them in its pages. According to Buckley's biographer John B.
Judis, with the founding of the magazine, and its masthead brimming with
stalwart interventionists like James Burnham, Buckley ''was turning his
back on much of the isolationist and anti-Semitic Old Right that had
applauded his earlier books and that his father had been politically close
to.'' And he did more than turn his back. He waged war against them. After
the John Birch Society announced its opposition to the Vietnam War in 1965,
National Review spent 14 pages denouncing the group and its conspiracy
theories. (The Birchers considered Communist infiltration of the American
government the threat that required attention.) Upon the death of the
libertarian isolationist Murray Rothbard in 1995, Buckley quipped, ''We
extend condolences to his family, but not to the movement he inspired.''
The historian Jonathan M. Schoenwald has documented many of these struggles
between National Review and its fellow conservatives in his book, ''A Time
for Choosing.''

 Without a home in the conservative movement, the isolationists had no
choice but to search for allies in unlikely quarters. During the late 60's,
they often teamed up with the New Left, becoming stalwarts of the antiwar
movement. Karl Hess, a speechwriter for Barry Goldwater's 1964 campaign and
the author of the memoir-cum-political tract ''Dear America,'' argued,
''Vietnam should remind conservatives that whenever you put your faith in
big government for any reason, sooner or later you wind up an apologist for
mass murder.'' In 1969, Hess joined with a libertarian antiwar faction that
quit the Young Americans for Freedom (Y.A.F.), the campus conservative
group. And a few on the New Left returned the favor, heartily embracing the
apostates. In 1975, the historian Ronald Radosh (then a man of the left)
published ''Prophets on the Right,'' a book championing the prescience of
Robert A. Taft and other ''conservative critics of American globalism.''

 This long history of residing on the fringe ended suddenly with the
collapse of the Berlin Wall. In 1992, Buchanan ran a surprisingly strong
campaign in the Republican presidential primaries on an explicitly
''anti-imperialist'' platform -- a platform that he further developed in
his revisionist history, ''A Republic, Not an Empire.'' ''When we hear
phrases like 'New World Order,' we release the safety catches on our
revolvers,'' he wrote in one of his newspaper columns. Even if his party
ultimately rejected him, it co-opted much of his program, and in 1995, a
year after Republicans ascended to the majority in the House of
Representatives, 190 of them voted to deny funds for American troops
stationed in Bosnia. By the end of the decade, condemnations of ''foreign
policy as social work'' and ''nation building'' had become standard in
conservative boilerplate.

 Buchananite foreign policy has an intellectual wing, paleoconservatism.
Long before French protesters and liberal bloggers had even heard of the
neoconservatives, the paleoconservatives were locked in mortal combat with
them. Paleocons fought neocons over whom Ronald Reagan should appoint to
head the National Endowment for the Humanities, angrily denouncing them as
closet liberals -- or worse, crypto-Trotskyists. Even their self-selected
name, paleocon, suggests disdain for the neocons and their muscular
interventionism.

 Clustered around journals like Chronicles and Southern Partisan, the
paleocon ranks included the syndicated columnist Sam Francis and the
political theorist Paul Gottfried. Their writings have been anthologized in
''The Paleoconservatives: New Voices of the Old Right,'' edited by Joseph
Scotchie. The paleocons explicitly hark back to Garrett, Nock and the
Remnant, what they lovingly call the ''Old Right.'' Like their mentor,
Russell Kirk, the paleocons venerate traditional society, celebrating
hierarchy, patriarchy and even the virtues of the antebellum South. They
bemoan feminism, immigration and multiculturalism. A foreign policy
naturally follows from these domestic views. The dismal state of American
civilization so depresses them that they see no point in exporting its
values abroad. Kirk announced in a 1990 lecture to the Heritage Foundation
that America's contribution to the world will be ''cheapness -- the
cheapest music, the cheapest comic books and the cheapest morality that can
be provided.''

 Counterattacking, the neocons often accused the paleocons of
anti-Semitism. David Frum, for instance, built this case in his 1994 book,
''Dead Right.'' Indeed, this is a charge that has dogged isolationists --
from Nock to Charles Lindbergh (who is elected president in Philip Roth's
new counterfactual novel, ''The Plot Against America'') to Buchanan. With
their pleas for ''America first'' and their rejection of cosmopolitan
foreign policy, they have occasionally vilified the oldest symbol of
cosmopolitanism -- the Jew. During the gulf war debate, Buchanan spoke of
the Israel defense ministry's ''American amen corner.'' Even the best
thinkers in this tradition haven't been immune from repeating canards about
Jewish dual loyalties. In 1988, Kirk accused the neocons of mistaking ''Tel
Aviv for the capital of the United States.''

 George W. Bush entered office implicitly promising agnosticism in the
long-running debate between neocons and paleocons. On the 2000 campaign
trail, he promised a ''distinctly American internationalism'' that would
provide ''idealism, without illusions; confidence, without conceit;
realism, in the service of American ideals.'' Of course, after 9/11, Bush
dispensed with this doctrinal neutrality. And in adopting a neocon foreign
policy, he rallied most conservatives behind his ambitious agenda, a
dramatic turnabout in opinion from the 90's.

 Will this consensus hold? Already, many conservative writers seem primed
to abandon it. Even when they haven't gone as far as Will or Carlson in
their criticisms of the war, they have flashed their discomfort with Bush's
goal of planting democracy in Iraq. National Review has called this policy
''largely, if not entirely, a Wilsonian mistake.'' With these signs of
restlessness, it's easy to imagine that a Bush loss in November, coupled
with further failures in Iraq, could trigger a large-scale revolt against
neoconservative foreign policy within the Republican Party. A Bush victory,
on the other hand, will be interpreted by many Republicans as a vindication
of the current course, and that could spur a revolt too. If the party tilts
farther toward an activist foreign policy, antiwar conservatives might
begin searching for a new political home. In the meantime, the publishing
industry may be providing a test of the Bush consensus: Pat Buchanan's new
book, ''Where the Right Went Wrong: How Neoconservatives Subverted the
Reagan Revolution and Hijacked the Bush Presidency,'' has already climbed
onto the New York Times best-seller list.

 Perhaps the movement's current state of mind is best reflected in its
godfather, William F. Buckley. In June, he relinquished control of National
Review. When asked about Iraq by The New York Times, he confessed: ''With
the benefit of minute hindsight, Saddam Hussein wasn't the kind of
extraterritorial menace that was assumed by the administration one year
ago. If I knew then what I know now about what kind of situation we would
be in, I would have opposed the war.'' It is noteworthy that Buckley's
departure from the right's flagship journal should be accompanied by such
ambivalence and profound questions about the movement's first principles.
Conservatives could soon find themselves retracing Buckley's steps,
wrestling all over again with their isolationist instincts.

 Franklin Foer, a senior editor at The New Republic and a contributing
editor for New York magazine, is the author of ''How Soccer Explains the
World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization.''

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Sat Oct  9 11:14:01 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 09 Oct 2004 14:14:01 -0400
Subject: RFID Driver's licenses for VA
In-Reply-To: <41680BCA.BF9B9C8E@cdc.gov>
References: <41680BCA.BF9B9C8E@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <1097345641.16558.1.camel@daft>

On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 12:03, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

> When you get your driver's license, you should run a magnet over
> it to keep iron oxides from staining your wallet.  And apparently
> you should now microwave it to clean those DMV-employee pathogens
> from it.  Then it will be safe to carry, and you can see for yourself
> what it tells
> everyone else ---part of the definition of safety.

And rub that funny black and white smudge thing with nail polish remover
-- looks like someone with wet nail polish was handling the card, and
you don't want that smudge to cover up whatever was written under it.




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct  9 13:33:55 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:33:55 -0400
Subject: Technology | Top 20 computer threats unveiled
Message-ID: <p0611043fbd8df94a3e49@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/3727692.stm>

The BBC

Saturday, 9 October, 2004, 11:41 GMT 12:41 UK

 Top 20 computer threats unveiled The yearly hit parade of hackers'
favourite security vulnerabilities has been published.

 Issued by the respected Sans Institute, the Top 20 list helps
organisations find out if they are closing the most commonly exploited
loopholes.

 With more than 2,500 software vulnerabilities found every year many
organisations need help to know which ones to tackle first.

 The list includes loopholes found in both Windows and Unix/Linux software.

 Big hitter

"It's a first things first list," said Alan Paller, head of the Sans
Institute, a non-profit group which trains and certifies computer security
professionals.

 "It can be very helpful for people that are trying to fix their
vulnerabilities."

 He told BBC News Online that it was the list of the vulnerabilities
hackers were attacking now.

 TOP 10 WINDOWS

 1. Web servers & services
 2. Workstation service
 3. Windows remote access services
 4. Microsoft SQL server
 5. Windows authentication
 6. Web browsers
 7. File-sharing applications
 8. LSAS
 9. E-mail programs
 10. Instant messaging

 Each entry in the Top 20 mentions a category of software and the
accompanying report fleshes out individual vulnerabilities and what
organisations can do to close these holes.

 Almost 60% of the loopholes listed this year were in the 2003 Top 20 list.
Mr Paller said this was because only half of all organisations bother to
patch their systems.

 "These vulnerabilities are like little diseases that you cannot wipe out
if 50% of people do not have the vaccine," he said.

 Mr Paller said we will only see significant changes in the Top 20 when
organisations get to the point of finding and fixing vulnerabilities
automatically.

 Shrinking holes

 Gerhard Eschelbeck who studies vulnerabilities for online security firm
Qualys said: "It gives people a benchmark to measure themselves against."

 TOP 10 UNIX/LINUX

 1. Bind domain name system
 2. Web server
 3. Authentication
 4. Version control systems
 5. Mail transport services
 6. Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP)
 7. Open secure sockets layer (SSL)
 8. Misconfiguration of enterprise services
 9. Databases
 10. Kernel

 He said that better information about vulnerabilities popular with the
virus writing and hacking communities can help organisations protect
themselves.

 "The underground knows this data very well," he said. "We want to level
the playing field here between the guys that have the data and the bad
intentions and the people that need to know about this so they can do their
job effectively."

 Mr Eschelbeck's work on vulnerabilities shows that every 21 days, on
average, the number of web-facing systems vulnerable to a particular
loophole shrinks by 50% as people patch machines.

 For internal machines, such as the PCs on workers' desktops, the number
shrinks 50% every 62 days.

 This difference, said Mr Eschelbeck, comes about because of the sheer
number of PCs have on desktops and the time it takes to scan them and see
which vulnerabilities they are hosting.



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct  9 13:38:45 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:38:45 -0400
Subject: Papers Show Confusion as Government Watch List Grew Quickly
Message-ID: <p06110449bd8dfc97047a@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/09/politics/09nofly.html?oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times
October 9, 2004

Papers Show Confusion as Government Watch List Grew Quickly
By ERIC LICHTBLAU

ASHINGTON, Oct. 8 - The government's list of banned airline passengers has
grown from just 16 names on Sept. 11, 2001, to thousands of people today
amid signs of internal confusion and dissension over how the list is
implemented, newly disclosed government documents and interviews showed
Friday.

 A transportation security official acknowledged in one internal memorandum
that the standards used to ban passengers because of terrorism concerns
were "necessarily subjective," with "no hard and fast rules."

 More than 300 pages of internal documents, turned over by the Justice
Department on Friday as part of a lawsuit brought by the American Civil
Liberties Union, provide a rare glimpse inside the workings of the
government's so-called no-fly list.

 Federal officials have maintained tight secrecy over the list, saying
little publicly about how it is developed, how many people are on it or how
it is put into practice, even as prominent people like Senator Edward M.
Kennedy have been mistakenly blocked from boarding planes.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued the federal government last year
under the Freedom of Information Act on behalf of two San Francisco women
who said they suspected their vocal antiwar protests led to their being
banned from flying.

 The Justice Department fought the release of information on the no-fly
list on national security grounds, leading a federal judge in San Francisco
to admonish government lawyers for making "frivolous claims" to justify the
unusual secrecy. He ordered the government to comply with the Freedom of
Information Act, prompting the Justice Department to turn over the internal
documents to the A.C.L.U. on Friday.

 Federal officials said they could not discuss the documents Friday because
of the pending lawsuit.

 In general, said Brian Roehrkasse, spokesman for the Department of
Homeland Security, "we have taken numerous steps to refine the no-fly
system, including better definition of the criteria for the watch list and
putting in place an effective redress system that allows passengers who are
mistakenly put on the list to be removed."

But Thomas R. Burke, a lawyer representing the A.C.L.U., said the documents
raised "some very serious concerns about the criteria the government is
using in developing the no-fly list and the internal miscommunication in
implementing it."

In an internal e-mail message in May 2002, for instance, an F.B.I.
supervisor, whose name was deleted, complained that the Transportation
Security Administration had made the F.B.I. responsible for pursuing
possible matches from the list but had failed to inform the bureau about
changes in no-fly security directives.

 "Despite my best efforts, the T.S.A. just motors along, and I and the
agents are being whipped around the flagpole trying to do the right thing,"
the official wrote.

In another internal message in October 2002, an F.B.I. official in St.
Louis cited difficulties in getting suspects put on the no-fly list and in
coordinating different watch lists. The various watch lists "are not
comprehensive and not centralized," said the official, whose name was also
deleted. Some people "appear on one list but not the others. Some of the
lists are old and not current. We are really confused."

Federal officials have been developing a master terrorist watch list to
consolidate the no-fly list and nine others kept by different agencies. But
a report last week by Clark K. Ervin, the Department of Homeland Security's
inspector general, found serious coordination problems in that effort.

 The documents released Friday show that the government's no-fly list as of
Sept. 11, 2001, had only 16 names on it - fewer than the number of
terrorists who hijacked the four airliners that day. Several investigations
have criticized the government's failure to put two of the hijackers on
watch lists even after their terrorist ties became known.

 The no-fly list grew drastically after the attacks, and one document in
Friday's material said the number of banned passengers ballooned to nearly
600 within about two months. Another 365 names were put on a secondary list
that allows them to board a plane after getting closer scrutiny. The two
lists had grown to about 1,000 names by December 2002, one document showed.

The documents do not give a current total, but a law enforcement official,
speaking on condition of anonymity, said Friday the names on the no-fly and
secondary flight lists total about 10,000, with the no-fly list accounting
for "a few thousand." Another government official corroborated that account.

 Copyrigh
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct  9 13:38:53 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 16:38:53 -0400
Subject: Faulty 'No-Fly' System Detailed
Message-ID: <p0611044abd8dfcb70c07@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18735-2004Oct8?language=printer>

The Washington Post

washingtonpost.com
Faulty 'No-Fly' System Detailed


By Sara Kehaulani Goo
 Washington Post Staff Writer
 Saturday, October 9, 2004; Page A01

 The federal government's "no-fly" list had 16 names on it on Sept. 11,
2001. Today, it has more than 20,000.

 The list, which identifies suspected terrorists seeking to board
commercial airplanes, expanded rapidly even though the government knew that
travelers were being mistakenly flagged, according to federal records. The
records detail how government officials expressed little interest in
tracking or resolving cases in which passenger names were confused with the
growing number of names on the list.

More than 2,000 people have complained to the Transportation Security
Administration. Airlines, at one point, were calling the agency at least 30
times a day to say that they had stopped a passenger whose name was similar
to one on the list but after further investigation was determined not to be
a terror suspect, according to a TSA memo.

 More than 300 pages of documents related to the no-fly and related lists
were released late Thursday night by the TSA and the FBI in response to a
federal court order. The American Civil Liberties Union had filed suit on
behalf of Jan Adams and Rebecca Gordon, two peace activists who wanted to
know why their names had turned up on a no-fly list.

The documents reveal early symptoms of what are now known to be flaws with
the watch lists. Travelers who were flagged by the lists said they now foil
the system by altering how their names are spelled on their tickets --
adding their middle initials, full middle names or titles, for example.

Government officials do not announce when they stop passengers actually on
the lists. The only publicly known case involved Yusuf Islam, once known as
the pop singer Cat Stevens, who was prevented last month from entering the
country.

The information revealed by the documents is "not very comforting," said
Thomas R. Burke, a San Francisco attorney representing the peace activists
and the ACLU.

The TSA acknowledges that the system for checking passenger names for
suspected terrorists needs fixing, and it plans to overhaul it in a new
program called Secure Flight. The Justice Department declined to comment.

The false matches "underscore the need we have to get more information on
passengers to adjudicate those that are not a risk," said Department of
Homeland Security spokesman Brian Roehrkasse.

Every time a passenger books a ticket, the airline checks the traveler's
name against two enormous government databases, or watch lists, of people
the government believes pose a threat. The FAA created two lists in 2001: a
no-fly list and a so-called selectee list, both of which airlines compare
against reservation records. When the TSA was formed in 2002, it took over
maintenance of the lists from the FAA. The no-fly list grew from 16 names
supplied by the FBI in 2001 to 1,000 names by the end of 2002, according to
the newly released TSA documents. There are now more than 20,000 names on
the no-fly list, some which are aliases, according to a homeland security
source who is not allowed to release such numbers. There are several
thousand names on the selectee list, according to the source.

Internal TSA memos direct airlines to refuse boarding to a passenger on the
no-fly list and to alert the local FBI. Travelers on the selectee list are
to be directed to a law enforcement officer and put through additional
security procedures in order to board the plane, the documents said.

 Airlines declined to say exactly what kind of technology they use to match
names. But the documents make clear that in the months after Sept. 11,
carriers were having difficulty with the task. The Air Transport
Association, the airline trade group, met with the TSA's top policy
director in December 2002 to address the "false positives problem,"
according to a TSA memo.

"This has been such a headache for me," wrote one Alaska Airlines
executive, whose name was redacted, in an e-mail to the TSA a week before
the meeting. "Any solutions . . . would be greatly appreciated."

TSA officials wrote letters and e-mails of apology to passengers who
complained of being mistakenly flagged by the lists. But in an internal
memo, officials said there was little the agency could do.

"While a few carriers keep track of 'false positives' the majority do not,"
wrote Chad Wolf, now TSA's number-two policy official, in a December 2002
e-mail to agency legislative affairs official Cori Sieger. "Consequently,
TSA does not have the ability to record this data nor is there a pressing
need to do so."

 Passengers are falsely flagged by the lists in such large numbers because
of the kind of technology airlines use to compare the reservation lists to
the watch lists, according to experts in name-matching technology. Each
airline conducts the matches differently. Many major carriers use a system
that strips the vowels from each passenger's name and assigns it a code
based on the name's phonetic sound, according to the Air Transport
Association.

The name-matching technology is "too simplistic for a very complex
problem," said Jack Hermansen, co-founder of Language Analysis Systems Inc.
in Herndon, a company that has a competing name-matching technology that
factors in a name's cultural origin. "It's these accidental matches that
cause the big problem."

The phonetic-code concept is traced back to a program called Soundex
patented in 1918, which was used by Census Bureau officials to help sort
out names that sounded similar but might be spelled differently. The name
"Kennedy," for example, would be assigned the Soundex code K530, which is
the same code assigned to Kemmet, Kenndey, Kent, Kimmet, Kimmett, Kindt and
Knott, according to genealogy Web sites that use the technology. Today's
systems are more sophisticated than Soundex, but they grew from the same
origins, experts said.

"The reason this technology is used is you're really trying to protect
against typing errors," said Steven Pollock, executive vice president at
TuVox Inc., a company that sells speech-recognition software. "When someone
types in a name, the problem and the challenge is people will spell names
incorrectly. . . . Names are definitely the toughest things to get [right],
no doubt about it."

But the phonetic coding systems tend to ensnare people who have
similar-sounding names, even though a human being could tell the
difference. Earlier this month, for example, Rep. Donald E. Young
(R-Alaska), said he was flagged on the "watch list" when the airline
computer system mistook him for a man on the list named Donald Lee Young.

 ) 2004 The Washington
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sat Oct  9 19:11:12 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:11:12 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Libertarian and Green Party Presidential Candidates  
  Arrested!
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041009190641.04178728@pop.idiom.com>

>Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:08:55 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Libertarian and Green Party Presidential Candidates Arrested!
>From: (another list)



>While trying to enter the Bi-Partisan Press Conference tonight to serve
>legal papers to the CPD:
>
>http://badnarik.org/supporters/blog/2004/10/08/michael-badnarik-arrested/
>
>8:38PM CT
>
>The first report from St. Louis is in - and presidential candidates
>Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) and David Cobb (Green Party) were just
>arrested. Badnarik was carrying an Order to Show Cause, which he intended
>to serve the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Earlier today,
>Libertarians attempted to serve these same papers at the Washington, D.C.
>headquarters of the CPD - but were stopped from approaching the CPD office
>by security guards.
>
>Fred Collins reported to me from the ground that Badnarik and Cobb are in
>great physical condition and great spirit.
>
>As soon as more details are available, they will be posted here immediately.
>
>8:51PM CT
>
>I just spoke with Jon Airheart on his cellular telephone. He reports that
>while he could see no handcuffs, both Badnarik and Cobb had their hands
>behind their backs, as if they were handcuffed. Airheart also confirms
>that Badnarik did have the papers to serve the CPD in his jacket pocket.
>
>9:09PM CT
>
>The first AP report just hit Google News:
>
>     Just as the debate began, two third-party presidential candidates
>purposely crossed a police barricade and were arrested. Green Party
>presidential candidate David Cobb and Libertarian Party candidate
>Michael Badnarik were protesting their exclusion from the debate
>
>And a whole lot more on the blog page...
>
>Mark

----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 10 05:45:15 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:45:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TSCM-L] Interception capabilities 2000 (EC report on Echolon)
  (fwd)
Message-ID: <20041010074431.B77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>

No doubt many here will have an interest in this as well.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:40:41 -0000
From: contranl <contranl at yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: TSCM-L at yahoogroups.com
To: TSCM-L at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TSCM-L] Interception capabilities 2000 (EC report on Echolon)



.

Good morning...

I gues (not)everybody has read this:

"Interception capabilities 2000"

http://www.europarl.eu.int/stoa/publi/pdf/98-14-01-2_en.pdf

(http://tinyurl.com/4lxds)

This is an official report carried out for the
European Commision in 2000.

It deals with the "Echolon" network and the "alleged" use of it by
the US and friends for militairy and industrial espionage...

Yes i know it's old stuff but not outdated and makes very good
reading...

So i tried to upload it to the files section...but it was refused
since it is to big.

I consider this standard reading and it should be in the files
section since it is not that easy to find if you don't know where to
look for it (yes i know now).

Maybe someone can cut it into 2 pieces (Pdf) and upload it ?

Tnx

73's

Tetrascanner









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From jrandom at i2p.net  Sun Oct 10 07:57:17 2004
From: jrandom at i2p.net (jrandom)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:57:17 -0700
Subject: [i2p] 0.4.1.2 is available
Message-ID: <mailman.1041.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone,

We've got a new 0.4.1.2 release out and about with a bunch of
bugfixes, tools to help monitor the health of your node, reduce
memory churn, and help cut down on the per-hop message processing
time.  I don't expect any sort of revolutionary performance
improvements with this, but I do hope it'll make the latency a bit
smoother.  Upgrading is highly recommended.

The full list of whats been added since 0.4.1.1 is up and available
at http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2p/history.txt?rev=HEAD

Its all backwards compatible, and duck has been helping me test out
these updates as they've been made (as well as gather truckloads of
stats to help identify the bottlenecks on his fairly active router).

As always, the goods are up @ http://www.i2p.net/download

=jr

SHA1(i2p.tar.bz2)= 455b936f0b49ee58ab50739e7b00a482678b9291
SHA1(i2p_0_4_1_2.tar.bz2)= 124ce2e680f8a194d573edc9e688c6ab1f085d05
SHA1(i2pupdate.zip)= e6f140f9a4ccdb59e3784510c9bff5d336dafca4
SHA1(install.jar)= 5a92ffdac4edce942faa2f8fa3b9c468f646a6db

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.1

iQA/AwUBQWlNgBpxS9rYd+OGEQJcBQCghZVED/5eHT3L8mEwIiRM34jS9hwAoJ8O
hdm6AaL62BKroSQHNfFuXzNH
=oKAI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
i2p mailing list
i2p at i2p.net
http://i2p.dnsalias.net/mailman/listinfo/i2p

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 10 16:00:18 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:00:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] WWII cryptography: the dark side (fwd)
Message-ID: <20041010180008.T77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:57:15 +0200
From: Christian Leber <christian at leber.de>
To: full-disclosure at lists.netsys.com
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] WWII cryptography: the dark side

On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 07:52:20PM +0200, Feher Tamas wrote:
>(in german only or bablefish, sorry):

I bablefished it and corrected the worst errors:

-------
Secret code TELWA cracked: Nazi decoder developed computer forerunner

23. September 2004

Hanover - the decoder Reinhold Weber decoded the US
secret code TELWA in the Second World War and built a decoding machine
to crack M-209-Nachrichten. This was now revealed by Klaus Schmeh, author
at the InterNet magazine Telepolis

That German decoding specialists decoded in the the Second World War
secret code of the allied was even not well known by experts until a few
years ago. According to report of the former president of the Federal
Office for security in the information technology (BSI), Dr Otto
Leiberichm the Germans in the Second World War cracked the US coding
machine M-209.
These remarks served the Telepolis author Klaus Schmeh as
important source of information, when he worked on his book
'Die Welt der geheimen Zeichen - Die faszinierende Geschichte der Verschl|sselung'
('The world of the secret signs - the fascinating history of encryption).
When he published excerpts of this book with Telepolis first, this led to a
small sensation: A 84 year old man from Frankfurt contacted him and reported
that he was in WWII involved in the crackong of the mentioned US coding machine M-209.

The 1920 in Austria born Reinold Weber, which had spent six years of
his childhood in the USA, was drawn in 1941 to the armed forces. Due to
excellent knowledge of the english language he was first trained as a message
interpreter and later as decoder. Inserted in the decoding unit
FNAST5, he succeeded to decode the TELWA messages from US radiograms
and decipher also machine keys. In this time Weber and his
colleagues cracked the codes of the US coding machine M-209 and intercepted
explosive information. Thus there were again and again hints referring to
forthcoming bombardments of German cities, which were announced usually
about six to eight weeks before execution in radiograms. What counter
measures the German military did with the help of these information,
weber however never experienced.

In April 1944 Weber had the idea to build a machine which should
automate a part of the laborious deciphering computations. The company
Hollerith, late IBM, was positive in an evaluation, explained however
the building of such a machine takes about two years. Thus Weber with a
colleague made itself alone to the work. They created a machine, which
consisted of two boxes: one in the size of a desk, which contained the
relays and the four turning rollers, as well as a further box with 80 x
80 x 40 cm edge length. Latter box contained 26 times 16 bulb sockets,
with which by bulbs the letters of the relative attitude could be
copied. Thus Webers and his colleague wrote an interesting piece of
technology history, because their construction had already many thing in common
with a computer with their binary logic. The computer was still
not at all invented at this time, if one refrains from the British
machine Colossus likewise developed for decoding, which developed about
at the same time.

In the middle of September 1944 Weber could prove the strength of its computer
forerunner for the first time: During a night duty he
determined with his machine - without the support of his
colleagues - an M209 key. Which would have meant one week work without machine
assistance for a three-team at least, he created within approximately
seven hours. At the beginning of of 1945, weber had landed over several
detours in Salzburg, wanted to use his decoding machine again. However
the necessary radio engineering was missing. The equipment proved as
useless. Its superior instructed to destroy the machine. With pickel,
hatchet, hammer and stahlsaege Weber scrapped thereupon the equipment,
whose construction had employed him several months long.

Thus a historically extremely interesting computer forerunner
disappeared again from the scene. Until today this equipment in no
source of literature is mentioned to computer history.
-------

Here is the complete Telepolis article (german):
http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/18371/1.html


Christian Leber

-- 
  "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur,
   nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est."       (Aurelius Augustinus)
  Translation: <http://gnuhh.org/work/fsf-europe/augustinus.html>

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html




From brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org  Sun Oct 10 12:26:02 2004
From: brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org (brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org)
Date: 10 Oct 2004 19:26:02 -0000
Subject: Indymedia Seizures Initiated In Europe
Message-ID: <mailman.1042.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/10/1716256
Posted by: timothy, on 2004-10-10 17:18:00

   from the fbi-just-along-for-the-ride dept.
   [1]daveschroeder writes "According to [2]this Indymedia.org article
   and [3]AFP report, the request to seize Indymedia servers hosted by a
   U.S. company in the UK (covered in this [4]previous slashdot story)
   originated from government agencies in Italy and Switzerland, not the
   United States. Because Indymedia's hosting company, Rackspace.com, is
   a U.S. company, the FBI coordinated the request and accompanied UK
   Metropolitan Police on the seizure under the auspices of the [5]Mutual
   Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT), an international legal treaty, but,
   according to an FBI spokesman, 'It is not an FBI operation. Through
   [MLAT], the subpoena was on behalf of a third country.'" Read on below
   for more.

   daveschroeder continues: "Rackspace's statement reads, 'In the present
   matter regarding Indymedia, Rackspace Managed Hosting, a U.S. based
   company with offices in London, is acting in compliance with a court
   order pursuant to a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT), which
   establishes procedures for countries to assist each other in
   investigations such as international terrorism, kidnapping and money
   laundering. Rackspace responded to a Commissioner's subpoena, duly
   issued under Title 28, United States Code, Section 1782 in an
   investigation that did not arise in the United States. Rackspace is
   acting as a good corporate citizen and is cooperating with
   international law enforcement authorities. The court prohibits
   Rackspace from commenting further on this matter.'"

References

   1. mailto:dasNO at SPAMdoit.wisc.edu
   2. http://www.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/112047.shtml
   3.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1509&ncid=738&e=6&u=/afp/2004
1008/tc_afp/us_internet_justice
   4. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/07/204217&tid=153
   5. http://travel.state.gov/law/mlat.html

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 10 19:03:52 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:03:52 -0400
Subject: E-Commerce Sites Make Great Laboratory For Today's Economists
Message-ID: <p06110461bd8f9a12ef50@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109744444984841427,00.html>

The Wall Street Journal


 October 11, 2004

 PORTALS
 By LEE GOMES


E-Commerce Sites
 Make Great Laboratory
 For Today's Economists
October 11, 2004

Calling them eBayologists doesn't sound quite right; Amazonists is even
worse. There may not be a good name for them, but for a growing number of
academics trying to test ivory-tower theories in the real world, the big
online commerce sites are the new place to be.

Especially for economists, Web sites and their untold millions of
interactions are perfect real-world laboratories. For instance, a
fast-growing specialty in economics is "auction theory," which, as the name
suggests, tries to tease out the basic patterns by which auctions operate.
Before eBay, an aspiring auction theorist didn't have much data to work
with. As a result, many of them spent time sifting and resifting through a
limited set of data on government wireless spectrum auctions of the 1990s
for their auction insights.

But now, with eBay and the rest, there are more data than even the most
dedicated graduate student would know what to do with. EBay itself even
helps with this, supplying anonymized data to university researchers under
special arrangement.

What exactly are economists learning? Frankly, the conclusions aren't the
sort that would cause a layperson's jaw to drop; many are the sort that
only a microeconomist would love.

For instance, one of the cardinal rules of eBay involves the importance of
a seller's reputation, or the rating given the person by those who have
done business with him or her.

Luis M.B. Cabral, an economist at NYU's business school, says that for an
economist, it wouldn't have been immediately obvious that the eBay ranking
would be important -- partly because reputations on eBay, unlike those in
the real world, are essentially anonymous.

But not only is reputation important, Prof. Cabral found, but it affects
the prices sellers can charge and the amount of merchandise they can move.
In one study, he looked at what happens to sellers with perfect ratings who
receive their first piece of negative feedback.

Not only did they begin selling less, but they entered a kind of downward
spiral, with fewer sales and a declining reputation. "It really makes a
huge difference," Prof. Cabral says.

Another academic foray into the online world ended up confirming the power
of brand names. Conventional wisdom among most American economists would be
that prices on Web sites should be essentially the same. After all,
Internet users all have "perfect information" about what everyone is
charging, and they face few, if any, "switching costs" in moving from one
supplier to the next.

But Judith A. Chevalier, an economist at the University of Chicago business
school, looked at price differences between Amazon and Barnes & Noble and
found that Amazon was consistently able to charge more. And in a separate
study, she found that Amazon's customer-written reviews of books do indeed
affect sales, with negative reviews having more of an impact than positive
ones. Prof. Chevalier theorized that prospective shoppers may suspect
positive reviews are some sort of shill for the author but don't bring
comparable skepticism to negative notices.

Even with all the interest by researchers, some of the questions posed by
the e-commerce sites remain unresolved. One of them involves the usefulness
of "sniping," which occurs when a prospective buyer in an auction doesn't
get involved in the bidding until the last minute, and then makes an offer
the others don't have time to top.

The practice works only on eBay-style auctions, which have fixed time
limits. There are many eBay users who swear by the practice. In fact, there
are even a number of services that will snipe for you automatically.

David Reiley, a University of Arizona economist, says that for certain
kinds of auction items -- including standardized electronic gear with many
different bidders -- studies suggest that snipers don't do better than
anyone else, either in their success rate in winning their items or in the
price they end up paying.

But he says there may be other kinds of merchandise, such as those with
fewer bidders or prices that aren't easy to determine, where buyers should,
in fact, snipe. Even that could change, he notes, if everyone sniped. It is
currently unclear how many people on eBay engage in the practice.

Not all of the work being done online by economists is theoretical, and
savvy eBay traders would be wise to acquaint themselves with some of the
literature. Lucking Reiley, for instance, along with a colleague, Rama
Katkar, wanted to find out if it was better to publicly set a minimum bid
for an item or to use an eBay feature called a "secret reserve," which
rejects bids below a certain dollar amount without telling bidders what the
minimum is.

By comparing 50 pairs of identical items, one with the secret minimum and
one without, the economists concluded that the secret minimum dissuaded
buyers from participating in the auction, thus driving down prices. The
study was done using Pokimon cards, but the finding, presumably, could hold
true for anything: Beanie Babies, lawn gnomes, you name it.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Sun Oct 10 14:33:00 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:33:00 +0200
Subject: [i2p] 0.4.1.2 is available (fwd from jrandom@i2p.net)
Message-ID: <20041010213300.GW1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from jrandom <jrandom at i2p.net> -----


From eugen at leitl.org  Sun Oct 10 15:03:01 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:03:01 +0200
Subject: Indymedia Seizures Initiated In Europe (fwd from
  brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
Message-ID: <20041010220301.GZ1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org -----


From brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org  Mon Oct 11 00:26:00 2004
From: brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org (brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org)
Date: 11 Oct 2004 07:26:00 -0000
Subject: China Rewards Porn Snitches
Message-ID: <mailman.1043.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/11/0239205
Posted by: timothy, on 2004-10-11 05:29:00

   from the don't-look-just-tell dept.
   [1]MinimeMongo writes that the "Associated Press reports that China's
   police ministry on Sunday [2]handed out rewards of up to $240 to
   people who reported pornographic Web sites in a campaign to stamp out
   online smut...The online crackdown is part of a sweeping official
   morality campaign launched this year on orders from communist
   leaders."

References

   1. mailto:6cgi-9w09.xemaps at com
   2.
http://www.newsday.com/technology/business/wire/sns-ap-china-porn-rewards,0,1
812553.story?coll=sns-ap-technology-headlines

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From eugen at leitl.org  Mon Oct 11 01:08:01 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:08:01 +0200
Subject: China Rewards Porn Snitches (fwd from
  brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
Message-ID: <20041011080801.GK1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org -----


From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 07:38:32 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:38:32 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
  real money)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F25eyyfIIhs6h0006a5dc@hotmail.com>

OK, I'll bite. Or rather...

Well, your initial postulate was stated in such a way as to be fairly 
unrefutable, the key word being "float". Only companies, etc...provide that 
by requiring that the transacted funds flow through their coffers for a 
moment, where they extract their discount revenue. At this stage of the 
game, nobody when their head screwed on tight would argue that 
Internet-based businesses don't represent an increase in Risk (whether that 
increase will eventually make float-based business models impossible is an 
entirely different matter).

Interestingly, the Visa organization recently launched a Purchasing Card 
platform which merely facilitates EFTs (a step towards your oft-mentioned 
"Geodesic Society"?)...there's a fixed and small discount revenue touch 
that's independent of the size of the transaction (and they can afford to do 
this because there's no float, ergo no risk). In this case, Visa is 
providing "value added" information systems for the transactions, but in a 
sense they're allowing their member banks to more or less completely step 
out of the transaction if they wish.

Now of course, Paragraph 2 is only related to Paragraph 1 by the fact that I 
wrote both of them in one post. To my knowledge, Visa's new PCard platform 
has nothing to do with Internet-based risk PER SE, but in the long run I'll 
doubt we'll lable this a coincidence.

-TD

>From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>To: cryptography at metzdowd.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,  real  
>money)
>Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:14:08 -0400
>
>Okay. So I'm coming to the conclusion that book-entry settlement, with its
>absolute requirement for both "identity" and float between transactions, is
>becoming more and more *un*-safe to use as internet ubiquity increases.
>
>Anyone want to pick up the other side of this and tell me why not?
>
>No bugbears or horsemen need apply...
>
>Cheers,
>RAH
>-------
>
>
><http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6175738/print/1/displaymode/1098/>
>   MSNBC.com
>
>Fake companies, real money
>Elaborate con wrings cash out of stolen credit cards
>By Bob Sullivan
>Technology correspondent
>MSNBC
>Updated: 7:15 p.m. ET Oct. 7, 2004
>
>
>T-Data, a small New-York based software company, doesn't take credit cards
>-- never has in its 20-year history. But a few weeks ago, owner Jeff Duhl
>found himself looking over $15,000 worth of credit card charges seemingly
>accepted by his store.
>
>A quick investigation revealed most of the charges had been made using
>stolen credit cards. Slowly, he caught on: Someone had stolen a batch of
>credit card accounts, then stolen his company's name, set up an imposter
>version of T-Data, and rung up thousands of dollars worth of fake
>purchases. The "profits" were then desposited into checking accounts
>controlled by the imposters.
>
>"It is ingenious," said Dan Clements, who operates merchant advocacy site
>CardCops.com.
>
>Duhl wasn't the only victim of this new brand of corporate identity theft:
>At least 50 other firms apparently also had their identities stolen in the
>scheme. For credit card thieves doing their best to wring money out of a
>stash of stolen accounts, it seems like the perfect scam.
>
>How to profit from stolen credit cards
>While millions of credit card account numbers are stolen every year -- 60
>million last year, and perhaps 120 million this year, according to one
>estimate -- turning them into cash can be tricky. Merchandise ordered with
>the card must be delivered somewhere, which is risky. Massive cash
>withdrawals are quickly spotted by credit card associations.
>
>  The scheme Duhl's firm was caught up in is a heady, complex alternative:
>
>First, credit card thieves find a legitimate company unlikely to already be
>accepting credit card transactions. They then impersonate that company and
>set up accounts with merchant processing providers, whose role it is to
>transfer funds between credit card companies and merchants.
>
>  Using stolen credit cards, the thieves then start sending small payments,
>usually $498 or $598 at a time, to the fraudulent merchant accounts. The
>credit card companies send funds to the processors and they in turn send
>the funds off to bank accounts controlled by the criminals.
>
>"They are flying under the radar on each transaction unless someone does a
>whole lot of work," Duhl said.
>
>  A key part of the scheme: The thieves went to the trouble of registering
>the domain www.T-datasoftware.com, then set up a fake Web site. The site
>looked like a believable business to the merchant processing providers, who
>gave the thieves their accounts.
>
>Duhl's imposters were able to set up accounts at seven different payment
>processing firms. When Duhl investigated, he discovered some 50 other Web
>sites -- most mere imitations of one another -- all sitting on the same
>computer server.
>
>"They got away with $15,000 (in charges) at my company," Duhl said.
>"Multiply that by the number of sites, the number of companies, these folks
>could be getting away with millions of dollars," he said.
>
>It's not clear how much money the criminals really did get away with in the
>end. Many of the processing firms interviewed for this article claimed they
>caught on to the fraud after the transactions had cleared, but before the
>suspects had withdrawn the money from various checking accounts around the
>country.  One did concede, however, that the scheme has real potential.
>
>'Hundreds of thousands' over a weekend
>"If you don't catch it you could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over
>a weekend," said David Steinberg, chief credit officer at Merchant E
>Solutions, one of the processing firms used by the thieves.
>
>  Steinberg said his company had never suffered such a loss, but that the
>industry is bustling with fraud attempts. Some 5 to 10 percent of all
>applications his firm receives are turned away as potentially fraudulent,
>he said.
>
>Phyllis McNeill, a spokeswoman for Global Payments, another processing firm
>hit in the scam, confirmed a fake account had been set up in T-Data's name
>with her company. She said the account was actually set up through a
>reseller, and was shut down after eight transactions had been performed.
>
>Randy Lobban, director of risk management at North American Bancard, said
>the con artists were able to open up an account at his firm and pass eight
>charges through the system, but the funds were never released.
>
>"They never got any money," Lobban said. He alerted the U.S. Postal
>Inspection Service to the incident.
>
>Representatives at First Data and Wells Fargo also confirmed that fake
>accounts had been opened at their firms.
>
>  An official at Beacon Bank in Minnesota, where one of the checking
>accounts used to receive the stolen funds had been set up, confirmed that
>he had discussed the situation with Duhl, but would not provide further
>comment.
>
>  Corporate ID theft
>Whoever impersonated T-Data were clever enough to throw a few monkey
>wrenches in the path of anyone trying to detect them.
>
>When applying for the compulsory credit check needed to obtain the fake
>merchant account, for example, the thieves didn't use T-Data's tax ID
>number. Instead, they used the name and credit profile of a man unconnected
>with the company. Steven Wiencek, who lives on Long Island near the
>company, didn't even know his credit had been checked until contacted by
>MSNBC.com for this story.
>
>But the application, which listed Wiencek as company president, gives his
>Social Security number and driver's license number, suggesting the people
>behind this scheme have access to a wide swath of stolen credit cards and
>stolen identities.
>
>Another attempt at misdirection was foiled by an alert mail carrier.
>
>  The application for the merchant account used a slight variation of 
>Duhl's
>address -- apparently an attempt to ensure that mail to Duhl would be lost.
>But a knowledgeable local postal worker recognized the company name anyway,
>leading Duhl to discover the dupe.
>
>"Without that, I may not have found out about this for a long time," he 
>said.
>
>  The thieves were also persistent. Using one stolen credit card, they
>attempted to steal $2,500 through five separate faked merchant accounts,
>according to an affidavit of credit card fraud supplied by Duhl.
>
>  Another corporate ID victim, John Bartholomew of Abcom Services, said he
>was lucky, because Duhl contacted him just as the scam began.
>
>  "We are a management company in long-term health care. We would have no
>reason to use credit cards," he said. The firm had been in business for 21
>years, and never accepted a single charge -- until the criminals stole his
>company's name, Bartholomew said.
>
>True to form, the criminals hijacked his brand name and set up merchants
>accounts using his company's name and a similar -- but slightly altered --
>street address.
>
>  The good news is, Bartholomew was able to warn the merchant account
>providers soon enough that only about $4,000 in charges were run through
>his company's name. The bad news is, some of the providers are still trying
>to make him pay the bill for the charges. He figures he's spent about
>$5,000 in legal fees trying to clean up the mess.
>
>Who are they working with?
>Rob Douglas, a consultant who operates PrivacyToday.com, blames the
>merchant account providers for never checking to see if the name on the
>account application actually represented a real person who worked at the
>firm.
>
>"You have to ask what the companies that set up the merchant accounts are
>doing?" he said. "Who has the responsibility to do due diligence that they
>are in fact working with who they think they are working with when they
>open an account?"
>
>But several of the merchant service providers pointed out the difficulty of
>stopping all fraudulent applications in a world where identities are so
>easily stolen.
>
>  "For all of us, it's a tough business," Steinberg, of Merchant E 
>Services,
>said. "It's a large, large problem."
>
>Duhl himself blames the banks where the money was to eventually wind up --
>wondering how the thieves were able to set up accounts in the post-Patriot
>Act era. Apparently worried as much about security implications as his
>personal loss, Duhl contacted the FBI, the Secret Service and the U.S.
>Postal Inspector's Office.  None of the agents he spoke to returned phone
>calls placed by MSNBC.com.
>
>  He says he is frustrated that none of the agencies seem to have taken any
>interest in the incident -- particularly because at least one phone call
>was placed to Pakistan using the cell phone purchased in his company's
>name, and one of the bank accounts used to funnel money was established by
>suspects who presented Russian passports as identification, he says his own
>research revealed.
>
>  "No one in the government seems like they are going to get interested in
>establishing a case," Duhl said.
>
>  Douglas, who consults with firms trying to deal with the new trend of
>corporate identity theft, says there's little small companies like Duhl's
>can do to prevent this kind of incident. But one piece of practical advice
>he offers larger firms: search the Web once a week for evidence of
>impersonation.
>
>"As strange as it sounds, companies need to have one or more people
>assigned to surf the Web and see if there are mirror sites out there, just
>like we tell parents to surf for their child's name," he said.
>
>Bob Sullivan is the author of Your Evil Twin: Behind the Identity Theft
>Epidemic
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From nobody at dizum.com  Mon Oct 11 01:50:01 2004
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:50:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Money Laundering for the Nazis by President Bush's family
Message-ID: <e6dec283ecb7f32bf2e15a49475afe35@dizum.com>

The subject says it all. Read more here:
http://www.debatecomics.org/BushFamilyFortune/

We must retire this criminal from office now!

Link to the full 89 MB pdf below

http://www.debatecomics.org/assets/Sources/US_Fascism/
A-2%20FascistFriendly%20Power%20Brokers/
Roaming%20Ghost%20Case/Whole/full.pdf

(Concat above rows to one URL)




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 11 08:09:03 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:09:03 -0400
Subject: Chance plays a key role in start-up company's success
Message-ID: <p0611047dbd90525c2175@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://istresults.cordis.lu/popup.cfm?section=news&tpl=article&ID=70263&AutoPrint=True>

 IST Results

Chance plays a key role in start-up company's success

Using randomly generated numbers to ensure the security of encryption
applications seems counter-intuitive but is a fundamental part of quantum
cryptography. Pioneering the approach is an award-winning Swiss start-up
company, id Quantique, that launched the world's first commercial quantum
random number generator and quantum cryptography system.

 In fact, numerous applications require random numbers. Besides potential
quantum cryptographic applications, such as bank transfers and e-voting,
further examples include scientific calculations and games involving chance
such as national lotteries. Initially though, id Quantique's products
mainly target demand from customers of high security encryption systems
such as financial, government and military institutions.

 id Quantique was founded in October 2001 as a spin-off from the University
of Geneva by four researchers from the University's Applied Physics
Department - Grigoire Ribordy, Olivier Guinnard, Nicolas Gisin and Hugo
Zbinden. December 2003 marked a milestone in the company's evolution: the
entrepreneurs successfully raised 1 million euros from the Luxemburg-based
i2i venture capital fund in a first round of funding and they concluded a
worldwide exclusivity agreement with the University of Geneva regarding two
important quantum cryptography patents.

 Over a short period of time, the fledgling company and its founders have
won several prestigious prizes. The company was a recipient of the European
Innovation Awards from the Wall Street Journal Europe in 2001; Olivier
Guinnard and Grigoire Ribordy were winners of the de Vigier's prize for
Swiss entrepreneurs in 2002; and this year the company was a winner of the
annual Swiss Technology Award.

 id Quantique supplies three products. Firstly, a physical random number
generator, Quantis, which relies on an elementary quantum optical process -
namely the perfectly random reflection or transmission of a photon, or
light particle, on a semi-transparent mirror - in order to produce binary
random numbers. Next, a quantum key distribution (QKD) system that enables
cryptographic keys, which are required for encrypting and decrypting
information, to be securely transmitted over standard optical fibres
between two parties. Finally, a Single Photon Detection Module (SPDM), id
200, which is a photon counter used in quantum cryptography and other
quantum optical applications.

 In March 2004, id Quantique and the University of Geneva launched the
first ever website offering perfectly random numbers created by the Quantis
generator. Grigoire Ribordy, id Quantique's CEO, remarks, "We launched the
www.randomnumbers.info website to promote our new quantum random number
generator and to provide a service to the scientific community. In the long
term, we would like it to become the reference point for random numbers."

 Despite the demand for perfectly random numbers, their generation remains
a difficult task. Conventional computers use a rule to produce
pseudo-random numbers, which can sometimes introduce unwanted bias.
"Quantum physics is the only physical theory predicting that the outcome of
certain phenomena is random," emphasises Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the
University of Geneva. "It is thus a natural choice to use it to generate
true random numbers."

 id Quantique is a partner in the IST project SECOQC which began in April
2004 under the Sixth Framework Programme. The project is focused on
evaluating quantum cryptography technology as well as developing standard
specifications for secure global digital communication systems.

 Recently, the project consortium performed the world's first ever bank
transfer using quantum cryptography by sending $3000 over a 1.45 km link
between Vienna City Hall and the headquarters of Bank-Austria
Creditanstalt. "The SECOQC project makes it possible for id Quantique's
engineers to interact with some of the best groups worldwide in the field
of quantum cryptography," observes Ribordy. "And because of the
multidisciplinary nature of this project, it is an extremely enriching
platform to exchange ideas and find new ways to solve problems."

 More recently, id Quantique has teamed up with the Deckpoint, a Swiss
Internet Service Provider, to develop and implement the world's first data
archiving network secured using quantum cryptography. The official opening
of the new archiving network took place on 29 September 2004 in the
presence of Carlo Lamprecht, the Minister of Economy, Labour and Foreign
Affairs of the Republic and Canton of Geneva. Data stored on a farm of 30
servers at Deckpoint Housing Centre, in the middle of Geneva, was backed up
to servers located at the Cern Internet Exchange Point, in the city suburbs
some 10 kms away. "This world premiere is an excellent illustration of the
of the potential of this technology " says Ribordy. "We are convinced that
security has become critical, in particular with the implementation of the
Basel II standards in the banking industry as of 2006," adds Dominique
Perisset, Director of Deckpoint. "The economic world cannot afford anymore
not to have a complete information security strategy."

 Contact:
Grigoire Ribordy
Chief Executive Officer
id Quantique SA
Chemin de la Marbrerie, 3
CH-1227 Carouge / Geneva
Switzerland
Tel: + 41-22-3018371/2
Fax: + 41-22-3018379
Email: gregoire.ribordy at idquantique.com

Sources: Based on information from id Quantique


  


 
Information :

DATE :
11 Oct 2004

TECHNOLOGY AREA:

 Trust/security


MARKET APPLICATION:

Electronics/IT manuf


USEFUL LINKS:
id Quantique website
SECOQC project
SECOQC factsheet on CORDIS
www.randomnumbers.info website



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 11 09:05:50 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 12:05:50 -0400
Subject: Chance plays a key role in start-up company's success
Message-ID: <BAY24-F26Un3AkTR60o0006b68f@hotmail.com>

Well, as a research toy QC seems gee-wiz super cool.

I'm still not super-impressed by the current set of applications.

In particular, consider that random number generator. Although QM does 
indeed predict that experimental outcomes will be 'random', they are random 
within the weightings imposed by the measuring apparatus. In a sense, this 
is the perfect analog to the notion that, "Your crypto algorithm may be 
unbreakable, but your hard/software ain't."

Consider...I set up my random number generator to spit out a 1 every time a 
photon passes through a half-silvered mirror, and a 0 every time it 
reflects. Over time the silvering on the mirror is going to degrade, or 
perhaps it's already not perfect but you need a large number of 
'measurements' and/or analysis to begin to see it. In any event, your 
probabilities are going to shift over time, yielding an imperfect 
distribution of 0s/1s. Sure, it's still "random", but the probability 
density function is no longer useful for many applications.

Right now I can't see why this would be any more desirable than, for 
instance, grabbing the outcome of some distinctly nonlinear process, or 
perhaps many other approaches to RNG. The only thing this does is allow 
users/buyers to think their system is now free of any deep technical issues 
that may make classical systems insecure.

-TD

>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>To: cryptography at metzdowd.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Chance plays a key role in start-up company's success
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:09:03 -0400
>
><http://istresults.cordis.lu/popup.cfm?section=news&tpl=article&ID=70263&AutoPrint=True>
>
>  IST Results
>
>Chance plays a key role in start-up company's success
>
>Using randomly generated numbers to ensure the security of encryption
>applications seems counter-intuitive but is a fundamental part of quantum
>cryptography. Pioneering the approach is an award-winning Swiss start-up
>company, id Quantique, that launched the world's first commercial quantum
>random number generator and quantum cryptography system.
>
>  In fact, numerous applications require random numbers. Besides potential
>quantum cryptographic applications, such as bank transfers and e-voting,
>further examples include scientific calculations and games involving chance
>such as national lotteries. Initially though, id Quantique's products
>mainly target demand from customers of high security encryption systems
>such as financial, government and military institutions.
>
>  id Quantique was founded in October 2001 as a spin-off from the 
>University
>of Geneva by four researchers from the University's Applied Physics
>Department - Grigoire Ribordy, Olivier Guinnard, Nicolas Gisin and Hugo
>Zbinden. December 2003 marked a milestone in the company's evolution: the
>entrepreneurs successfully raised 1 million euros from the Luxemburg-based
>i2i venture capital fund in a first round of funding and they concluded a
>worldwide exclusivity agreement with the University of Geneva regarding two
>important quantum cryptography patents.
>
>  Over a short period of time, the fledgling company and its founders have
>won several prestigious prizes. The company was a recipient of the European
>Innovation Awards from the Wall Street Journal Europe in 2001; Olivier
>Guinnard and Grigoire Ribordy were winners of the de Vigier's prize for
>Swiss entrepreneurs in 2002; and this year the company was a winner of the
>annual Swiss Technology Award.
>
>  id Quantique supplies three products. Firstly, a physical random number
>generator, Quantis, which relies on an elementary quantum optical process -
>namely the perfectly random reflection or transmission of a photon, or
>light particle, on a semi-transparent mirror - in order to produce binary
>random numbers. Next, a quantum key distribution (QKD) system that enables
>cryptographic keys, which are required for encrypting and decrypting
>information, to be securely transmitted over standard optical fibres
>between two parties. Finally, a Single Photon Detection Module (SPDM), id
>200, which is a photon counter used in quantum cryptography and other
>quantum optical applications.
>
>  In March 2004, id Quantique and the University of Geneva launched the
>first ever website offering perfectly random numbers created by the Quantis
>generator. Grigoire Ribordy, id Quantique's CEO, remarks, "We launched the
>www.randomnumbers.info website to promote our new quantum random number
>generator and to provide a service to the scientific community. In the long
>term, we would like it to become the reference point for random numbers."
>
>  Despite the demand for perfectly random numbers, their generation remains
>a difficult task. Conventional computers use a rule to produce
>pseudo-random numbers, which can sometimes introduce unwanted bias.
>"Quantum physics is the only physical theory predicting that the outcome of
>certain phenomena is random," emphasises Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the
>University of Geneva. "It is thus a natural choice to use it to generate
>true random numbers."
>
>  id Quantique is a partner in the IST project SECOQC which began in April
>2004 under the Sixth Framework Programme. The project is focused on
>evaluating quantum cryptography technology as well as developing standard
>specifications for secure global digital communication systems.
>
>  Recently, the project consortium performed the world's first ever bank
>transfer using quantum cryptography by sending $3000 over a 1.45 km link
>between Vienna City Hall and the headquarters of Bank-Austria
>Creditanstalt. "The SECOQC project makes it possible for id Quantique's
>engineers to interact with some of the best groups worldwide in the field
>of quantum cryptography," observes Ribordy. "And because of the
>multidisciplinary nature of this project, it is an extremely enriching
>platform to exchange ideas and find new ways to solve problems."
>
>  More recently, id Quantique has teamed up with the Deckpoint, a Swiss
>Internet Service Provider, to develop and implement the world's first data
>archiving network secured using quantum cryptography. The official opening
>of the new archiving network took place on 29 September 2004 in the
>presence of Carlo Lamprecht, the Minister of Economy, Labour and Foreign
>Affairs of the Republic and Canton of Geneva. Data stored on a farm of 30
>servers at Deckpoint Housing Centre, in the middle of Geneva, was backed up
>to servers located at the Cern Internet Exchange Point, in the city suburbs
>some 10 kms away. "This world premiere is an excellent illustration of the
>of the potential of this technology " says Ribordy. "We are convinced that
>security has become critical, in particular with the implementation of the
>Basel II standards in the banking industry as of 2006," adds Dominique
>Perisset, Director of Deckpoint. "The economic world cannot afford anymore
>not to have a complete information security strategy."
>
>  Contact:
>Grigoire Ribordy
>Chief Executive Officer
>id Quantique SA
>Chemin de la Marbrerie, 3
>CH-1227 Carouge / Geneva
>Switzerland
>Tel: + 41-22-3018371/2
>Fax: + 41-22-3018379
>Email: gregoire.ribordy at idquantique.com
>
>Sources: Based on information from id Quantique
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Information :
>
>DATE :
>11 Oct 2004
>
>TECHNOLOGY AREA:
>
>  Trust/security
>
>
>MARKET APPLICATION:
>
>Electronics/IT manuf
>
>
>USEFUL LINKS:
>id Quantique website
>SECOQC project
>SECOQC factsheet on CORDIS
>www.randomnumbers.info website
>
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 11 12:19:00 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:19:00 -0400
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
Message-ID: <p061104a1bd908ceddbc6@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109744462285841431,00.html>

The Wall Street Journal


 October 11, 2004


Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
Fingerprints May Replace
 Money, Passwords and Keys;
 One Downside: Gummi Fakes

By WILLIAM M. BULKELEY
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
October 11, 2004; Page B1


Fingerprints aren't just for criminals anymore. Increasingly, they are for
customers.

Fingerprint identification is being used to speed up checkouts at Piggly
Wiggly supermarkets in South Carolina, and to open storage lockers at the
Statue of Liberty. Fingerprints are also being used as password substitutes
in cellphones and laptop computers, and in place of combinations to open up
safes.

But these aren't the fingerprints of yore, in which the person placed his
hand on an ink pad, then on paper. Instead, the user sets his hand on a
computerized device topped with a plate of glass, and an optical reader and
special software and chips identify the ridges and valleys of the
fingertips.

Fingerprint technology seems to be reaching critical mass and is spreading
faster than other widely promoted "biometric" identification methods, such
as eyeball scanning, handprint-geometry reading and facial recognition.
Interest in these and other new security systems was heightened by the
September 2001 terror attacks.

"Fingerprints will be dominant for the foreseeable future," says Don
McKeon, the product manager for biometric security at International
Business Machines Corp.

One reason fingerprint-security is spreading is that technological advances
are bringing the cost down. Microsoft Corp. recently introduced a
stand-alone fingerprint reader for $54, and a keyboard and a mouse with
fingerprint readers. Last week, IBM said it would start selling laptop
computers with fingerprint readers built in. These products reduce the need
for personal-computer users to remember passwords.

A customer uses a fingerprint reader to pay at a Piggly Wiggly store,
cutting his checkout time.



Earlier this year, American Power Conversion Corp., a Rhode Island company
that makes backup computer batteries, started selling a fingerprint reader
for PCs with a street price of $45 -- less than half the price of
competitors at the time. American Power says it has sold tens of thousands
of the devices since.

Korea's LG Electronics Inc. has introduced a cellphone with a silicon chip
at its base that requires the owner's finger to be swiped across its
surface before the phone can be used. This summer, NTT DoCoMo Inc. started
selling a similar phone reader that is being used on Japanese trains as an
electronic wallet to pay fares or to activate withdrawals from on-board
cash machines.

Proponents have never had trouble explaining the benefits of fingerprints
as payment-and-password alternatives: Each person has a unique set, and
their use is established in the legal system as an authoritative means of
identification. But some people are uneasy about registering their
fingerprints because of the association with criminality and the potential
that such a universal identifier linked to all personal information would
reduce privacy.

Moreover, numerous businesses and governments have tested fingerprint
systems in the past only to rip them out when the hype failed to match
reality. That's partly because the optical readers have had problems with
certain people's fingers. Elderly people with dry skin, children who
pressed down too hard, even women with smaller fingers -- including many
Asians -- were often rejected as unreadable.

Security experts also have successfully fooled some systems by making
plaster molds of fingers and then creating fake fingers by filling the
molds with Silly-Putty-type plasticizers or gelatin similar to that used in
candy Gummi Bears.

But advocates say the rate of false rejections of legitimate users has been
greatly reduced by improved software. "I'd say 99% of people can register"
their fingers, says Brad Hill, who installed fingerprint-controlled lockers
at his souvenir store at the Statue of Liberty this summer when the
National Park Service forbade tourists from entering the statue while
carrying packages. Mr. Hill was worried that tourists would lose locker
keys when security screeners forced them to empty their pockets.

Some makers of readers also say their technology can solve the fake-finger
problem by taking readings from below the surface skin layer. Or they
suggest combining four-digit ID codes with fingerprint scanning to
virtually eliminate false readings.

Makers of fingerprint readers acknowledge the privacy concerns. But they
maintain that the threat of personal invasion is minimized because most
systems don't store the actual print, but instead use it to generate a
unique series of numbers that can't be reverse-engineered to re-create the
print. And public willingness to submit to fingerprint readers has soared
since the 2001 terrorist attacks, as the need for security overcomes
worries about unwarranted intrusion.

While the market for fingerprint readers is small, it is growing fast.
International Biometric Group, a New York market-research firm, predicts
that sales will rise 86% to $368 million this year from $198 million last
year. AuthenTec Inc., of Melbourne, Fla., which makes the
fingerprint-reading chips used in the LG cellphone, expects to ship more
than three million of them this year, triple the level of 2003. Their price
has fallen below $6 apiece, and Scott Moody, AuthenTec's chief executive,
sees that dropping below $4 next year.

Ubiquitous use of fingerprints could eliminate a huge consumer headache:
remembering passwords for various Web sites. With American Power's
fingerprint reader, users register all of their passwords online, along
with the associated Web sites. Then they never have to type in a password
again.

"Our parents didn't deal with the problem of remembering 20 passwords, and
our grandkids won't even know what they are," says IBM's Mr. McKeon.

Potentially, fingerprint readers also could replace credit and debit cards.
Pay by Touch Co., a closely held San Francisco company that is working with
IBM, installs fingerprint readers in retail stores where customers can
register their fingers by touching the pad five times. Then they can
register supermarket loyalty cards and several credit card-numbers. They
even can use the fingerprint reader to withdraw money from a checking
account at the cash register.

Another use: A consumer could register a driver's license and his or her
age with the system, so clerks won't have to examine identification cards
for purchases of beer or cigarettes. The next time the customer checks out,
he or she just touches the pad, enters his or her phone number and selects
from the list of payment options. Pay by Touch, which charges retailers 5
to 10 cents per transaction, claims the system reduces checkout time by 30%.

One early user of Pay by Touch are a handful of Piggly Wiggly supermarkets.
After installing the system in four stores in July, "a good, strong
percentage of our transactions are done by touch" already, says David
Schools, senior vice president of Piggly Wiggly Carolina Inc., based in
Charleston. He declined to be more specific. The chain hopes that customers
will register checking accounts and make electronic withdrawals via
fingerprint ID to pay for purchases, which would save the grocer steep
credit-card or debit-card fees.

IBM says that convenience stores are experimenting with fingerprints as an
alternative to radio-frequency identification cards like Exxon Mobil
Corp.'s Speedpass, to deal with the "sweaty jogger problem" -- cashless
runners coming in for coffee or Gatorade. The problem with RFID cards is
that anyone can use one that is lost or stolen. Not so with fingerprints.

Jeff Baughan, vice president of information technology at Catholic Health
Systems in Buffalo, N.Y., says he anticipates some day installing wireless
readers on the carts used by nursers that would read patients' fingers, to
double-check that the right patient gets the right medicine. Currently, the
health-care system is installing Ultra-Scan Corp. devices that read fingers
to register incoming patients and make sure that different people aren't
using the same insurance card.

Fingerprint-scanner authorization also is being used by business owners as
a replacement for lock combinations on safes. "Traditionally, two people
are given the same combination, and if there's a loss, how can you figure
out who took it?" says Edward McGunn, president of Corporate Safe
Specialists Inc., of Posen, Ill. He predicts that within two years, 80% of
his sales will be fingerprint safes, partly because it's much simpler to
train an unskilled manager to open one. "This is the most exciting time to
be in the safe business in my lifetime," says Mr. McGunn, a
third-generation safe maker.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From franks at mcs.anl.gov  Mon Oct 11 17:34:19 2004
From: franks at mcs.anl.gov (Frank Siebenlist)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:34:19 -0700
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
In-Reply-To: <p061104a1bd908ceddbc6@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p061104a1bd908ceddbc6@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <416B268B.2010908@mcs.anl.gov>

Can anyone explain how sophisticated those fingerprint readers are?

Are there readers out there that by themselves are secure devices and 
essentially are able to talk with their servers thru the 
PCs/workstations over a protocol such that any man-in-the-middle, like a 
driver, can not learn anything from the traffic?
(...and all that for less than $40, of course...)

If not, would a trojan then be able to capture your fingerprint's 
digital-fingerprint, and impersonate you from any other node on the network?

-Frank.



R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> <http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109744462285841431,00.html>
>
> The Wall Street Journal
>
>
> October 11, 2004
>
>
> Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
> Fingerprints May Replace
> Money, Passwords and Keys;
> One Downside: Gummi Fakes
>
> By WILLIAM M. BULKELEY
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> October 11, 2004; Page B1
>
>
> Fingerprints aren't just for criminals anymore. Increasingly, they are for
> customers.
>
> Fingerprint identification is being used to speed up checkouts at Piggly
> Wiggly supermarkets in South Carolina, and to open storage lockers at the
> Statue of Liberty. Fingerprints are also being used as password 
> substitutes
> in cellphones and laptop computers, and in place of combinations to 
> open up
> safes.
>
> But these aren't the fingerprints of yore, in which the person placed his
> hand on an ink pad, then on paper. Instead, the user sets his hand on a
> computerized device topped with a plate of glass, and an optical 
> reader and
> special software and chips identify the ridges and valleys of the
> fingertips.
>
> Fingerprint technology seems to be reaching critical mass and is spreading
> faster than other widely promoted "biometric" identification methods, such
> as eyeball scanning, handprint-geometry reading and facial recognition.
> Interest in these and other new security systems was heightened by the
> September 2001 terror attacks.
>
> "Fingerprints will be dominant for the foreseeable future," says Don
> McKeon, the product manager for biometric security at International
> Business Machines Corp.
>
> One reason fingerprint-security is spreading is that technological 
> advances
> are bringing the cost down. Microsoft Corp. recently introduced a
> stand-alone fingerprint reader for $54, and a keyboard and a mouse with
> fingerprint readers. Last week, IBM said it would start selling laptop
> computers with fingerprint readers built in. These products reduce the 
> need
> for personal-computer users to remember passwords.
>
> A customer uses a fingerprint reader to pay at a Piggly Wiggly store,
> cutting his checkout time.
>
>
>
> Earlier this year, American Power Conversion Corp., a Rhode Island company
> that makes backup computer batteries, started selling a fingerprint reader
> for PCs with a street price of $45 -- less than half the price of
> competitors at the time. American Power says it has sold tens of thousands
> of the devices since.
>
> Korea's LG Electronics Inc. has introduced a cellphone with a silicon chip
> at its base that requires the owner's finger to be swiped across its
> surface before the phone can be used. This summer, NTT DoCoMo Inc. started
> selling a similar phone reader that is being used on Japanese trains as an
> electronic wallet to pay fares or to activate withdrawals from on-board
> cash machines.
>
> Proponents have never had trouble explaining the benefits of fingerprints
> as payment-and-password alternatives: Each person has a unique set, and
> their use is established in the legal system as an authoritative means of
> identification. But some people are uneasy about registering their
> fingerprints because of the association with criminality and the potential
> that such a universal identifier linked to all personal information would
> reduce privacy.
>
> Moreover, numerous businesses and governments have tested fingerprint
> systems in the past only to rip them out when the hype failed to match
> reality. That's partly because the optical readers have had problems with
> certain people's fingers. Elderly people with dry skin, children who
> pressed down too hard, even women with smaller fingers -- including many
> Asians -- were often rejected as unreadable.
>
> Security experts also have successfully fooled some systems by making
> plaster molds of fingers and then creating fake fingers by filling the
> molds with Silly-Putty-type plasticizers or gelatin similar to that 
> used in
> candy Gummi Bears.
>
> But advocates say the rate of false rejections of legitimate users has 
> been
> greatly reduced by improved software. "I'd say 99% of people can register"
> their fingers, says Brad Hill, who installed fingerprint-controlled 
> lockers
> at his souvenir store at the Statue of Liberty this summer when the
> National Park Service forbade tourists from entering the statue while
> carrying packages. Mr. Hill was worried that tourists would lose locker
> keys when security screeners forced them to empty their pockets.
>
> Some makers of readers also say their technology can solve the fake-finger
> problem by taking readings from below the surface skin layer. Or they
> suggest combining four-digit ID codes with fingerprint scanning to
> virtually eliminate false readings.
>
> Makers of fingerprint readers acknowledge the privacy concerns. But they
> maintain that the threat of personal invasion is minimized because most
> systems don't store the actual print, but instead use it to generate a
> unique series of numbers that can't be reverse-engineered to re-create the
> print. And public willingness to submit to fingerprint readers has soared
> since the 2001 terrorist attacks, as the need for security overcomes
> worries about unwarranted intrusion.
>
> While the market for fingerprint readers is small, it is growing fast.
> International Biometric Group, a New York market-research firm, predicts
> that sales will rise 86% to $368 million this year from $198 million last
> year. AuthenTec Inc., of Melbourne, Fla., which makes the
> fingerprint-reading chips used in the LG cellphone, expects to ship more
> than three million of them this year, triple the level of 2003. Their 
> price
> has fallen below $6 apiece, and Scott Moody, AuthenTec's chief executive,
> sees that dropping below $4 next year.
>
> Ubiquitous use of fingerprints could eliminate a huge consumer headache:
> remembering passwords for various Web sites. With American Power's
> fingerprint reader, users register all of their passwords online, along
> with the associated Web sites. Then they never have to type in a password
> again.
>
> "Our parents didn't deal with the problem of remembering 20 passwords, and
> our grandkids won't even know what they are," says IBM's Mr. McKeon.
>
> Potentially, fingerprint readers also could replace credit and debit 
> cards.
> Pay by Touch Co., a closely held San Francisco company that is working 
> with
> IBM, installs fingerprint readers in retail stores where customers can
> register their fingers by touching the pad five times. Then they can
> register supermarket loyalty cards and several credit card-numbers. They
> even can use the fingerprint reader to withdraw money from a checking
> account at the cash register.
>
> Another use: A consumer could register a driver's license and his or her
> age with the system, so clerks won't have to examine identification cards
> for purchases of beer or cigarettes. The next time the customer checks 
> out,
> he or she just touches the pad, enters his or her phone number and selects
> from the list of payment options. Pay by Touch, which charges retailers 5
> to 10 cents per transaction, claims the system reduces checkout time 
> by 30%.
>
> One early user of Pay by Touch are a handful of Piggly Wiggly 
> supermarkets.
> After installing the system in four stores in July, "a good, strong
> percentage of our transactions are done by touch" already, says David
> Schools, senior vice president of Piggly Wiggly Carolina Inc., based in
> Charleston. He declined to be more specific. The chain hopes that 
> customers
> will register checking accounts and make electronic withdrawals via
> fingerprint ID to pay for purchases, which would save the grocer steep
> credit-card or debit-card fees.
>
> IBM says that convenience stores are experimenting with fingerprints as an
> alternative to radio-frequency identification cards like Exxon Mobil
> Corp.'s Speedpass, to deal with the "sweaty jogger problem" -- cashless
> runners coming in for coffee or Gatorade. The problem with RFID cards is
> that anyone can use one that is lost or stolen. Not so with fingerprints.
>
> Jeff Baughan, vice president of information technology at Catholic Health
> Systems in Buffalo, N.Y., says he anticipates some day installing wireless
> readers on the carts used by nursers that would read patients' fingers, to
> double-check that the right patient gets the right medicine. 
> Currently, the
> health-care system is installing Ultra-Scan Corp. devices that read 
> fingers
> to register incoming patients and make sure that different people aren't
> using the same insurance card.
>
> Fingerprint-scanner authorization also is being used by business owners as
> a replacement for lock combinations on safes. "Traditionally, two people
> are given the same combination, and if there's a loss, how can you figure
> out who took it?" says Edward McGunn, president of Corporate Safe
> Specialists Inc., of Posen, Ill. He predicts that within two years, 80% of
> his sales will be fingerprint safes, partly because it's much simpler to
> train an unskilled manager to open one. "This is the most exciting time to
> be in the safe business in my lifetime," says Mr. McGunn, a
> third-generation safe maker.
>
>

-- 
Frank Siebenlist franks at mcs.anl.gov
The Globus Alliance - Argonne National Laboratory

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From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 11 18:48:45 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:48:45 -0400
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
Message-ID: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://nytimes.com/2004/10/11/politics/11identity.html?pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 11, 2004

Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
By MATTHEW L. WALD

ASHINGTON, Oct. 10 - Following a recommendation of the Sept. 11 commission,
the House and Senate are moving toward setting rules for the states that
would standardize the documentation required to obtain a driver's license,
and the data the license would have to contain.

 Critics say the plan would create a national identification card. But
advocates say it would make it harder for terrorists to operate, as well as
reduce the highway death toll by helping states identify applicants whose
licenses had been revoked in other states.

The Senate version of the intelligence bill includes an amendment, passed
by unanimous consent on Oct. 1, that would let the secretary of homeland
security decide what documents a state would have to require before issuing
a driver's license, and would also specify the data that the license would
have to include for it to meet federal standards. The secretary could
require the license to include fingerprints or eye prints. The provision
would allow the Homeland Security Department to require use of the license,
or an equivalent card issued by motor vehicle bureaus to nondrivers for
identification purposes, for access to planes, trains and other modes of
transportation.

The bill does not give the department the authority to force the states to
meet the federal standards, but it would create enormous pressure on them
to do so. After a transition period, the department could decide to accept
only licenses issued under the rules as identification at airports.

 The House's version of the intelligence bill, passed Friday, would require
the states to keep all driver's license information in a linked database,
for quick access. It also calls for "an integrated network of screening
points that includes the nation's border security system, transportation
system and critical infrastructure facilities that the secretary determines
need to be protected against terrorist attack."

 The two versions will go to a House-Senate conference committee.

 Some civil liberties advocates say they are horrified by the proposal.

"I think it means we're going to end up with a police state, essentially,
by allowing the secretary of homeland security to designate the sensitive
areas and allowing this integrating screening system," said Marv Johnson,
the legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. If the
requirement to show the identification card can be applied to any mode of
transportation, he said, that could eventually include subways or highways,
and the result would be "to require you to have some national ID card,
essentially, in order to go from point A to point B."

James C. Plummer Jr., a policy analyst at Consumer Alert, a nonprofit
organization based here, said, "You're looking at a system of internal
passports, basically."

But a Senate aide who was involved in drafting the bipartisan language of
the amendment said that in choosing where to establish a checkpoint, the
provision "does not give the secretary of homeland security any new
authority."

The aide, who asked not to be identified because of his involvement in
drafting the measure, said it would not create a national identification
card but would standardize a form of identification routinely issued by
states.

 Representative Candice S. Miller, the Michigan Republican who drafted the
license section of the House measure, said, "I don't think this is anything
that should cause anyone concern."

Of the 50 states, 48 are members of interstate compacts that exchange
information on moving violations, so that a driver from, say, Maryland, who
picks up a speeding ticket in Florida will accumulate points in his home
state. But Michigan and Wisconsin are not members of a compact. Ms. Miller
said one purpose of the provision she wrote was to fix that problem.

 A spokesman for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrations,
which represents the state officials who issue driver's licenses, said
linking the databases and strengthening control over who could get a
license was long overdue. "The American public should be outraged to know
that departments of motor vehicles nationwide lack the capability to do the
jobs we've asked them to do," said the spokesman, Jason King.

In both houses, the legislation is geared to respond to numerous
recommendations made by the Sept. 11 commission. For years before the
terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, law enforcement officials, especially
those concerned with identity theft, argued that the states should have
more rigorous standards for issuing driver's licenses. But the commission
pointed out that "fraud in identification documents is no longer just a
problem of theft."


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Mon Oct 11 22:56:48 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:56:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>

> In both houses, the legislation is geared to respond to numerous
> recommendations made by the Sept. 11 commission. For years before the
> terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, law enforcement officials, especially
> those concerned with identity theft, argued that the states should have
> more rigorous standards for issuing driver's licenses. But the commission
> pointed out that "fraud in identification documents is no longer just a
> problem of theft."

Which of course neatly sidesteps the issue that a DRIVERS LICENSE is not
"identification", it is proof you have some minimum competency to operate
a motor vehicle...

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rsw at jfet.org  Tue Oct 12 06:15:10 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:15:10 -0500
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]> <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet> <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org>

Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> Few liquor stores (for example) accept anything else.

...except (ta-daaaa) the passport, which is universally accepted by
liquor stores AFAICT.

Imagine that.  An _actual_ document of identification being used for
approximately the correct purpose.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 12 06:49:00 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:49:00 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
   real money)
Message-ID: <28535172.1097588941261.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>Sent: Oct 8, 2004 7:14 PM
>To: cryptography at metzdowd.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies, real money)

>Okay. So I'm coming to the conclusion that book-entry settlement, with its
>absolute requirement for both "identity" and float between transactions, is
>becoming more and more *un*-safe to use as internet ubiquity increases.

Hmmm.  I guess I don't see why this story supports that argument all that well.  Clearly, book entry systems where I can do transactions in your name and you are held liable for them are bad, but that's like looking at Windows 98's security flaws and deciding that x86 processors can't support good OS security.   

The aspect of this that's generally spooky is not the existence of book entry payment systems, it's the ease with which someone can get credit (in one form or another) in your name, based on information they got from public records and maybe a bit of dumpster diving, some spyware installed on your machine, or a phishing expedition.   How the payment systems are cleared isn't going to change that, right?  (I know you've thought about this stuff a lot more than I have, so maybe I'm missing something....)

>Anyone want to pick up the other side of this and tell me why not?

>No bugbears or horsemen need apply...

>Cheers,
>RAH

--John Kelsey




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 12 06:53:17 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:53:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.
Message-ID: <12183129.1097589198935.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Steve Furlong <sfurlong at acmenet.net>
>Sent: Oct 9, 2004 7:44 AM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.

>On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 02:20, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> Mexican Attorney General, Staff Get Chip Implants
>> 
>> Implant replaces ID cards for access to restricted areas.

>I think I'd get the implant under my scalp somewhere. If the implant
>gave access to a really critical place, I wouldn't want to risk losing
>an arm or whatever. Also, I'd be able to block the implant's signals
>with my nifty tinfoil hat. I've been waiting for a use for that thing.

Actually, I think the protocol requires that it be placed on your forehead, right under the tattooed sixes.  Or maybe I'm getting my protocols mixed up....

--John




From rsw at jfet.org  Tue Oct 12 08:09:26 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:09:26 -0500
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <416BD933.9000105@gmx.co.uk>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]> <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet> <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk> <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org> <416BD933.9000105@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041012150926.GC4332@jfet.org>

Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> And how many americans have a passport,and carry one for identification 
> purposes?

Probably not all that many.

Tangentially, I was once told that, at least in Massachusetts liquor
stores, even an _expired_ passport was useful identification.  Can
anyone confirm that this is true other than at Sav-Mor Liquors?

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 07:52:32 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:52:32 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
    real money)
In-Reply-To: <28535172.1097588941261.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <28535172.1097588941261.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06110468bd91939f6ebb@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 9:49 AM -0400 10/12/04, John Kelsey wrote:
>Hmmm.  I guess I don't see why this story supports that argument all
>that well.

More like the straw that broke the camel's back, admittedly.

A long time ago I came to the conclusion that the closer we get to
transaction instantaneity, the less counterparty identity matters at
all. That is, the fastest transaction we can think of is a
cryptographically secure glop of bits that is issued by an entity who
is responsible for the integrity of the transaction and the quality
of assets that the bits represent. Blind signature notes work fine
for a first-order approximation. In other words, an internet bearer
transaction.

In such a scenario, nobody *cares* who the counterparties are for two
reasons. The first reason is existential: title to the asset has
transferred instantaneously. There is *no* float. I have it now, so I
don't *care* who you were, because, well, it's *mine* now. :-).

Second, keeping an audit trail when the title is never in question
is, in the best circumstances superfluous and expensive, and, in the
worst, even dangerous for any of a number of security reasons,
depending on the color of your adversary's hat, or the color your
adversary thinks his hat is, or whatever. Keeping track of credit
card numbers in a database is an extant problem, for instance, with a
known, shall we say, market cost. We'll leave political seizure  and
other artifacts of totalitarianism to counted by the actuaries.

> Clearly, book entry systems where I can do transactions in your
>name and you are held liable for them are bad, but that's like
>looking at Windows 98's security flaws and deciding that x86
>processors can't support good OS security.

I'm walking out on a limb here, in light of what I said above, and
saying that when there's *any* float in the process, your liability
for identity theft increases with the float involved. Furthermore,
book-entry transactions *require* float, somewhere. They are
debt-dependent. Someone has to *borrow* money to effect a
transaction. (In a bearer transaction, the shoe's on the other foot,
the purchaser is *loaning* money, at zero interest, but that's what
the buyer wants so the system compensates accordingly, but that's
another story.) Because the purchaser has to borrow money to pay, and
because you *cannot* wring the float out of a transaction (that is,
you can get instantaneous execution, but the transaction clears and
settles at a later date; 90 days is the maximum float time for a
non-repudiated credit-card transaction, for instance), I claim that
book-entry transactions will *always* be liable for "identity" theft.

Put another way, remember Doug Barnes' famous quip that "and then you
go to jail" is not an acceptable error handling step for a
transnational internet transaction protocol.

I would claim that enforcement of identity as a legal concept costs
too much in the long run to be useful, and that the cheapest way to
avoid the whole problem is to go to systems which not only don't
require identity, but they don't even require book-entry *accounts*
at all to function at the user level.

Financial cryptography has had that technology for more than two
decades now, so long that the patent's about expired on it, if it
hasn't already.

>The aspect of this that's generally spooky is not the existence of
>book entry payment systems, it's the ease with which someone can get
>credit (in one form or another) in your name, based on information
>they got from public records and maybe a bit of dumpster diving,
>some spyware installed on your machine, or a phishing expedition.
>How the payment systems are cleared isn't going to change that,
>right?  (I know you've thought about this stuff a lot more than I
>have, so maybe I'm missing something....)

See above. When you use book-entry transactions, by definition, you
need identity. Biometric, is-a-person,
go-to-jail-if-you-lie-about-a-book-entry identity. With bearer
transactions, digital/internet or otherwise, you don't have identity.
You don't *need* identity to execute, clear, and settle the
transaction, primarily because all three happen at once. There's no
float between the three activities. You don't have to send someone to
jail if they lie, because the transaction never executes in the first
place if they do.

Now, there are tradeoffs. The first one is key management, which as
Schneier likes to point out, is a hard problem. Personally, I think
that if you don't have to associate a key with a flesh-and-blood body
in meatspace, a whole continent full of problems just disappears. In
a bearer transaction, it's orthogonal to the issue of security
anyway, and all it does is cost you money to do for no added benefit.

The second one is security of the digital bearer notes and coins
themselves, which, frankly, scares people in the finance business
most of all. However, I would claim that all organizations, and even
people :-), do their *database* and document backups already, and
that proper system hygiene will evolve, particularly if literal money
is involved. Frankly, there already is a market for distributed data
storage, and there are even working systems using m-of-n distributed
data storage, which would be the most secure way to solve the
problem. And, as we all know, digital bearer transactions are the
best *way* to pay for those kinds of m-of-n services anyway, so it
feeds on itself nicely.


I think that it's less of a chicken-and-egg problem than it used to
be, and I think that reality is catching up to all the theory we've
kicked around on these lists for more than a decade now.  The
ultimate solution to the problem of identity theft is to not use
identity at all, and, frankly, not even to use book-entries at all.

Cheers,
RAH






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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From lloyd at randombit.net  Tue Oct 12 08:16:28 2004
From: lloyd at randombit.net (Jack Lloyd)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:16:28 -0400
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <20041012150926.GC4332@jfet.org>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet> <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>
  <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org> <416BD933.9000105@gmx.co.uk>
  <20041012150926.GC4332@jfet.org>
Message-ID: <20041012151628.GE11270@acm.jhu.edu>

On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:09:26AM -0500, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
> Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> > And how many americans have a passport,and carry one for identification 
> > purposes?
> 
> Probably not all that many.
> 
> Tangentially, I was once told that, at least in Massachusetts liquor
> stores, even an _expired_ passport was useful identification.  Can
> anyone confirm that this is true other than at Sav-Mor Liquors?

Some states will take an expired passport as valid identification.

-Jack




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 08:28:47 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:28:47 -0400
Subject: How key Microsoft legal emails 'autodestruct'
Message-ID: <p06110486bd91a88c564f@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/ms_legal_mail_autodestruct/print.html>

The Register


 Biting the hand that feeds IT

 The Register ; Software ;

 Original URL:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/ms_legal_mail_autodestruct/

How key Microsoft legal emails 'autodestruct'
By John Lettice (john.lettice at theregister.co.uk)
Published Monday 11th October 2004 07:23 GMT

The latest court documents to be unsealed by Judge Frederick Motz in
Burst.com's suit against Microsoft paint a picture of Microsoft document
handling procedures which destroyed the very emails that were likely to be
most relevant to several antitrust actions, Burst's included. According to
Burst's lawyers Microsoft's status as "a defendant in major antitrust cases
since at least 1995" means that it has a duty to preserve potentially
relevant evidence. But "Microsoft adopted policies that, to put it mildly,
encouraged document destruction from 1995 forward."

Microsoft is still resisting Burst's attempts to have it hand over
documents defining its retention policies, but a Burst brief of 27th
September puts forward a forensic examination of the net effect of whatever
these policies might be, accompanied by a certain amount of rolling of
eyes. We, and the technology press in general, are indebted to PBS
columnist Robert X Cringely for his dogged and single-handed pursuit of
Burst v Microsoft. You can read his take on the latest developments here,
(http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20041007.html) and links to the
court documents here. (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/links/links20041007.html)

As Microsoft's retention policies remain for the moment a closely-guarded
secret it would be absolutely wrong of us to draw any inference as to what
they might be solely from what happens. What happens, though, is pretty
damn peculiar. The system as a whole defaults to swift destruction of
employees' emails, while there is clear evidence that Microsoft takes a
very narrow view of whose documents may be relevant to a particular case.
In some cases its choice of 'relevant' employees to be subject to retention
seems perverse and misleading.

So in the normal course of events documents would be destroyed swiftly,
documents would be saved only by a document retention notice, and if
document retention notices were not sent to the right people (the Burst
brief argues that they were not), then by the time those people were
properly identified the documents would almost certainly have been
destroyed. Microsoft exec Jim Allchin, who seems to be shaping up as a star
exhibit, instructed Windows division employees in January 2000 to delete
emails from their hard drives after 30 days. "Do not be foolish," he said,
"do not archive your e-mail." In response to emails about this instruction
Allchin sends another which confirms the existence of an "official policy"
on document retention sent company-wide in the summer of 1996, and says
that this is the only written policy. Allchin however reiterates his 30 day
instruction, adding an exception only for those who "have received specific
instructions from Legal to retain certain documents or email that may be
related to pending litigation. These instructions override the general
policy."

Microsoft has not yet yielded the 1996 policy, but Allchin's reference to
it plus his insistence on 30 days suggests that the general policy was 30
days, from 1996 onwards. The retention of legally-relevant documents is
therefore clearly dependent on Legal sending retention notices to the right
people at the right time. Burst's brief at this point notes that Microsoft
has confirmed it did not produce any of the Allchin email string in 12
prior cases, including DoJ v Microsoft, on the basis that, it claims,
nobody asked for them. But in Sun v Microsoft, Microsoft undertook to
"produce documents concerning Microsoft business policies, procedures or
guidelines for document retention, to the extent such documents exist, for
the period January 1, 1998 to November 30, 2002." This period covers the
Allchin string, but the string was not produced, so when Microsoft
confirmed that it had completed the production of documents, it was not
telling the truth.

The general policy, if it is the policy, of 30 days covers local storage.
Email could also be saved on the Exchange servers. Microsoft however
enforces rigorous limits on employee storage on these servers, and on
average there appears to be space for about a month's emails per employee.
No storage allocation left, no email until you delete some. In addition,
emails could be saved on servers maintained by the Operations Technology
Group. But as made clear previously in this case (reported here
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/24/allchin_destroy_email_claim/)),
company policy is that emails should not be archived on these servers. This
policy was strengthened by the addition of the words "Due to legal
reasons..." in 1997, but weirdly, Microsoft claims that this bit was made
up by information technology employee Candy Stark, purely to add weight to
her campaign to save on storage costs. In fairness, therefore, we should
consider the possibility that many other apparently incriminating things in
surviving emails have been made up too. Is there a company policy on when
to believe what an exec is telling you? And if there is, has it been made
up? Frightening, isn't it?

But the Burst brief declines to believe Stark made it up, and suggests the
"legal reasons" may track back to the elusive 1996 policy, which again is
cited by Stark.

Archive location number four at Microsoft is provided by the servers
maintained by the IT person for each individual business group. The servers
most relevant to the Burst case were maintained by a Mr Ochs, who did not
receive a retention notice, and who testified to routinely destroying
documents on the servers. These are the very servers Microsoft has
previously said it cannot reasonably search for documents, because it does
not know who uses which servers.

The brief puts forward several examples of cases where Microsoft failed to
identify relevant employees and send them retention notices. In response to
a DoJ request in 1997 it failed to identify Chris Phillips and his boss
Eric Engstrom, although Phillips had led negotiations with RealNetworks and
the ensuing deal was sometimes referred to internally as "the Chris
Phillips deal." Microsoft did identify the in-house lawyer brought in to
draft the contracts, but not Phillips or Engstrom, so both destroyed their
emails. Neatly, as a Microsoft attorney the lawyer's emails were protected
by attorney-client privilege, so Microsoft doesn't have to release them.
Similarly Engstrom emails relevant to Intel's decision to drop development
of its JMF Java Media Player have been destroyed.

The Burst brief only asks for Microsoft's retention policies to be produced
in camera, so even if Redmond does cough up there's no certainty we'll ever
know if they explain the apparent weirdness of Microsoft document and
archiving policies. But if Microsoft does have a policy to diligently
retain relevant documents, well, it clearly needs to write a new policy
that works instead. We at The Register have a humble suggestion. Seeing
Rick Rashid of MS Labs is in the habit of touring the world telling people
that storage is now pretty well cheap enough for you to just record your
whole life in a lifeblog, couldn't everybody at Microsoft just...

Related links

Allchin named, as proof of MS email destruction policy is sought
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/24/allchin_destroy_email_claim/)
Cringely PBS column (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20041007.html)
Links to court documents (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/links/links20041007.html)

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From sunder at sunder.net  Tue Oct 12 08:29:05 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:29:05 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <20041012150926.GC4332@jfet.org>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>  <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>
 <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>  <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org>
 <416BD933.9000105@gmx.co.uk> <20041012150926.GC4332@jfet.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410121127470.17055@silkworth.sunder.net>


Right, just because your Passport or driver's license expired, doesn't 
mean that you got any younger and therefore shouldn't drink.

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Riad S. Wahby wrote:

> Tangentially, I was once told that, at least in Massachusetts liquor
> stores, even an _expired_ passport was useful identification.  Can
> anyone confirm that this is true other than at Sav-Mor Liquors?




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Tue Oct 12 04:05:27 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:05:27 +0100
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>

J.A. Terranson wrote:
> Which of course neatly sidesteps the issue that a DRIVERS LICENSE is
> not "identification", it is proof you have some minimum competency to
> operate a motor vehicle...
IIRC, several states have taken to issuing a "no compentency" driving
licence (ie, the area that says what that licence allows you to
drive/ride, normally occupied by car, motorcycle, truck or whatever, is
blank) purely for use as identification. Few liquor stores (for example) 
accept anything else.




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 10:12:40 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:12:40 -0400
Subject: UK ID cards to be issued with first biometric passports
Message-ID: <p0611048fbd91adea9877@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/new_passport_equals_new_id_card/print.html>

The Register


 Biting the hand that feeds IT

The Register ; Internet and Law ; Digital Rights/Digital Wrongs ;

 Original URL:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/new_passport_equals_new_id_card/

UK ID cards to be issued with first biometric passports
By John Lettice (john.lettice at theregister.co.uk)
Published Monday 11th October 2004 07:35 GMT

What's left of the 'voluntary' figleaf to the UK's ID scheme will erode in
the next few months, when Home Secretary David Blunkett introduces
legislation that will allow implementation of the scheme and include
provision for a rolling programme to issue ID cards along with passport
renewals. The new model passports are closely linked to the scheme anyway,
so even without the ID card, being issued one would mean you were added to
the national identity register, but the arrival of an actual card along
with the new passport will make its presence far more visible, far earlier,
to the general public. Previously the Home Office had said it would
designate passports and driving licences as ID documents, but hadn't
mentioned issuing actual ID cards with them.

Blunkett announced the move some considerable way into his speech to the
Labour Party Conference ten days ago. Reporting of the speech at the time
concentrated on anti-crime measures and more funding for counter-terrorism,
and the full text of the speech was mysteriously unavailable until a few
days ago. According to this text: "... we will legislate this winter to
upgrade our secure passport system, to create a new, clean database on
which we will understand and know who is in or country, who is entitled to
work, to services, to the something for something society which we value.
As people renew their passports, they will receive their new identity card.
The cost of biometrics and the card will be added to the total of
passports."

The increased cost of the new model passport has previously been justified
on the basis that the biometrics will be needed in order for the passport
to conform to new international standards. Adding the cost of the
"voluntary" ID card to the passport is therefore a novel innovation.

A similar approach could be adopted as the ID system rolls out to driving
licences, with the licence-renewing public having no choice but to accept
the ID card if they want a licence, and no choice then but to pay for it.
Blunkett did not cover this in his speech, but it may be covered in the
forthcoming legislation, and once these two key ID document areas are
covered, the rest of the population can be slowly mopped up.

The David Blunkett who announced this effectively compulsory ID regime is,
strange but true, the very same David Blunkett who, in his introduction to
"Legislation on Identity Cards - A Consultation" (CM6178, presented to
Parliament in April 2004) said: "...we would proceed by incremental steps,
building first on existing, widely held voluntary identity documents, and
only taking a final decision later to move to compulsion. Eventually
everyone lawfully resident in the UK would be required to register for a
card - but there would be no compulsion to carry the card or to produce it
without good reason. This move to compulsion would only happen once the
initial stage of the scheme had proved to be successful and following a
further debate and the approval of both Houses of Parliament."

This is actually a pretty useful way to put it, because it allows MPs to
kid themselves that we have here an incremental scheme that Parliament will
have the final say-so on while giving Blunkett the freedom to crash along
as fast as he likes without having actually told a flat-out lie. In this
picture compulsion comes in two flavours, compulsion to register for a card
and compulsion to carry one. It will not - at least in the current rounds
of legislation - be compulsory to carry a card, so Parliament's approval of
the move towards compulsion covers compulsion to register.

The fact that people who want passports, then probably driving licences
(then benefits and healthcare, as indicated in the "consultation") will
have no choice but to be registered need not be viewed as tripping the
compulsion switch, because within a steadily shrinking service-free pen it
will be possible for people to exist without being registered. The draft
bill does however include powers "to set a date when it would become
compulsory to register and be issued with a card" and "This provision could
only be brought in once the initial stage of the identity cards scheme was
in place and following a vote in both Houses of Parliament on a detailed
report which sets out all the reasons for the proposed move to compulsion."

We think we can save the Home Office some money here. The report should
say: "We might as well because nearly everyone has a card already."

And, Blunkett hopes, because it's loved. In his speech he went on to say:
"We will have, for the first time, an opportunity to use the card not
simply in terms of protection, but to promote our citizenship, to value the
fact that being a citizen, taking on citizenship is a tremendous step as
part of our mutuality, as communities and a nation." So once we've all been
compelled to register for it and pay for it, we'll rejoice over it, and the
ID card will become a symbol of national pride, social cohesion and unity.
Nice hive you've got there, David...

Blunkett's speech also mentioned Tony Blair's electronic border
surveillance announcement, made the previous day with considerably more
fanfare. This meant, he said: "In two years time we will have up and
running the most sophisticated system in the world." Which, as we pointed
out here,
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/29/uk_intros_semaphore_capps_uk/) is
tripe. It checks the lists of passengers bound for the UK against
"databases of individuals who pose a security risk," and if this counts as
sophistication round at the Home Office we're in just as bad a mess as we
think we're in.
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 10:40:56 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:40:56 -0400
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
Message-ID: <BAY24-F197B2NlzKdBQ0001bf3a@hotmail.com>

Can't specifically confirm that, but this last summer I traveled to several 
countries (and back into the US) using an expired passport as ID (and no, 
they didn't just forget to read the date, the expired passport was 
officially acceptable).

-TD

>From: "Riad S. Wahby" <rsw at jfet.org>
>To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:09:26 -0500
>
>Dave Howe <DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> > And how many americans have a passport,and carry one for identification
> > purposes?
>
>Probably not all that many.
>
>Tangentially, I was once told that, at least in Massachusetts liquor
>stores, even an _expired_ passport was useful identification.  Can
>anyone confirm that this is true other than at Sav-Mor Liquors?
>
>--
>Riad S. Wahby
>rsw at jfet.org

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 10:43:47 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:43:47 -0400
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
Message-ID: <BAY24-F15MDrxxnSYe400020047@hotmail.com>

Very interesting question. I'd bet almost any amount of money that it's 
fairly trivial to simply alligator-clip-out the fingerprint's file from 
almost any of the cheaper devices. Hell, I'd bet that's true even of more 
expensive "secure" devices as well.
-TD




>From: Frank Siebenlist <franks at mcs.anl.gov>
>To: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>CC: cryptography at metzdowd.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:34:19 -0700
>
>Can anyone explain how sophisticated those fingerprint readers are?
>
>Are there readers out there that by themselves are secure devices and 
>essentially are able to talk with their servers thru the PCs/workstations 
>over a protocol such that any man-in-the-middle, like a driver, can not 
>learn anything from the traffic?
>(...and all that for less than $40, of course...)
>
>If not, would a trojan then be able to capture your fingerprint's 
>digital-fingerprint, and impersonate you from any other node on the 
>network?
>
>-Frank.
>
>
>
>R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>
>><http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109744462285841431,00.html>
>>
>>The Wall Street Journal
>>
>>
>>October 11, 2004
>>
>>
>>Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
>>Fingerprints May Replace
>>Money, Passwords and Keys;
>>One Downside: Gummi Fakes
>>
>>By WILLIAM M. BULKELEY
>>Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>>October 11, 2004; Page B1
>>
>>
>>Fingerprints aren't just for criminals anymore. Increasingly, they are for
>>customers.
>>
>>Fingerprint identification is being used to speed up checkouts at Piggly
>>Wiggly supermarkets in South Carolina, and to open storage lockers at the
>>Statue of Liberty. Fingerprints are also being used as password 
>>substitutes
>>in cellphones and laptop computers, and in place of combinations to open 
>>up
>>safes.
>>
>>But these aren't the fingerprints of yore, in which the person placed his
>>hand on an ink pad, then on paper. Instead, the user sets his hand on a
>>computerized device topped with a plate of glass, and an optical reader 
>>and
>>special software and chips identify the ridges and valleys of the
>>fingertips.
>>
>>Fingerprint technology seems to be reaching critical mass and is spreading
>>faster than other widely promoted "biometric" identification methods, such
>>as eyeball scanning, handprint-geometry reading and facial recognition.
>>Interest in these and other new security systems was heightened by the
>>September 2001 terror attacks.
>>
>>"Fingerprints will be dominant for the foreseeable future," says Don
>>McKeon, the product manager for biometric security at International
>>Business Machines Corp.
>>
>>One reason fingerprint-security is spreading is that technological 
>>advances
>>are bringing the cost down. Microsoft Corp. recently introduced a
>>stand-alone fingerprint reader for $54, and a keyboard and a mouse with
>>fingerprint readers. Last week, IBM said it would start selling laptop
>>computers with fingerprint readers built in. These products reduce the 
>>need
>>for personal-computer users to remember passwords.
>>
>>A customer uses a fingerprint reader to pay at a Piggly Wiggly store,
>>cutting his checkout time.
>>
>>
>>
>>Earlier this year, American Power Conversion Corp., a Rhode Island company
>>that makes backup computer batteries, started selling a fingerprint reader
>>for PCs with a street price of $45 -- less than half the price of
>>competitors at the time. American Power says it has sold tens of thousands
>>of the devices since.
>>
>>Korea's LG Electronics Inc. has introduced a cellphone with a silicon chip
>>at its base that requires the owner's finger to be swiped across its
>>surface before the phone can be used. This summer, NTT DoCoMo Inc. started
>>selling a similar phone reader that is being used on Japanese trains as an
>>electronic wallet to pay fares or to activate withdrawals from on-board
>>cash machines.
>>
>>Proponents have never had trouble explaining the benefits of fingerprints
>>as payment-and-password alternatives: Each person has a unique set, and
>>their use is established in the legal system as an authoritative means of
>>identification. But some people are uneasy about registering their
>>fingerprints because of the association with criminality and the potential
>>that such a universal identifier linked to all personal information would
>>reduce privacy.
>>
>>Moreover, numerous businesses and governments have tested fingerprint
>>systems in the past only to rip them out when the hype failed to match
>>reality. That's partly because the optical readers have had problems with
>>certain people's fingers. Elderly people with dry skin, children who
>>pressed down too hard, even women with smaller fingers -- including many
>>Asians -- were often rejected as unreadable.
>>
>>Security experts also have successfully fooled some systems by making
>>plaster molds of fingers and then creating fake fingers by filling the
>>molds with Silly-Putty-type plasticizers or gelatin similar to that used 
>>in
>>candy Gummi Bears.
>>
>>But advocates say the rate of false rejections of legitimate users has 
>>been
>>greatly reduced by improved software. "I'd say 99% of people can register"
>>their fingers, says Brad Hill, who installed fingerprint-controlled 
>>lockers
>>at his souvenir store at the Statue of Liberty this summer when the
>>National Park Service forbade tourists from entering the statue while
>>carrying packages. Mr. Hill was worried that tourists would lose locker
>>keys when security screeners forced them to empty their pockets.
>>
>>Some makers of readers also say their technology can solve the fake-finger
>>problem by taking readings from below the surface skin layer. Or they
>>suggest combining four-digit ID codes with fingerprint scanning to
>>virtually eliminate false readings.
>>
>>Makers of fingerprint readers acknowledge the privacy concerns. But they
>>maintain that the threat of personal invasion is minimized because most
>>systems don't store the actual print, but instead use it to generate a
>>unique series of numbers that can't be reverse-engineered to re-create the
>>print. And public willingness to submit to fingerprint readers has soared
>>since the 2001 terrorist attacks, as the need for security overcomes
>>worries about unwarranted intrusion.
>>
>>While the market for fingerprint readers is small, it is growing fast.
>>International Biometric Group, a New York market-research firm, predicts
>>that sales will rise 86% to $368 million this year from $198 million last
>>year. AuthenTec Inc., of Melbourne, Fla., which makes the
>>fingerprint-reading chips used in the LG cellphone, expects to ship more
>>than three million of them this year, triple the level of 2003. Their 
>>price
>>has fallen below $6 apiece, and Scott Moody, AuthenTec's chief executive,
>>sees that dropping below $4 next year.
>>
>>Ubiquitous use of fingerprints could eliminate a huge consumer headache:
>>remembering passwords for various Web sites. With American Power's
>>fingerprint reader, users register all of their passwords online, along
>>with the associated Web sites. Then they never have to type in a password
>>again.
>>
>>"Our parents didn't deal with the problem of remembering 20 passwords, and
>>our grandkids won't even know what they are," says IBM's Mr. McKeon.
>>
>>Potentially, fingerprint readers also could replace credit and debit 
>>cards.
>>Pay by Touch Co., a closely held San Francisco company that is working 
>>with
>>IBM, installs fingerprint readers in retail stores where customers can
>>register their fingers by touching the pad five times. Then they can
>>register supermarket loyalty cards and several credit card-numbers. They
>>even can use the fingerprint reader to withdraw money from a checking
>>account at the cash register.
>>
>>Another use: A consumer could register a driver's license and his or her
>>age with the system, so clerks won't have to examine identification cards
>>for purchases of beer or cigarettes. The next time the customer checks 
>>out,
>>he or she just touches the pad, enters his or her phone number and selects
>>from the list of payment options. Pay by Touch, which charges retailers 5
>>to 10 cents per transaction, claims the system reduces checkout time by 
>>30%.
>>
>>One early user of Pay by Touch are a handful of Piggly Wiggly 
>>supermarkets.
>>After installing the system in four stores in July, "a good, strong
>>percentage of our transactions are done by touch" already, says David
>>Schools, senior vice president of Piggly Wiggly Carolina Inc., based in
>>Charleston. He declined to be more specific. The chain hopes that 
>>customers
>>will register checking accounts and make electronic withdrawals via
>>fingerprint ID to pay for purchases, which would save the grocer steep
>>credit-card or debit-card fees.
>>
>>IBM says that convenience stores are experimenting with fingerprints as an
>>alternative to radio-frequency identification cards like Exxon Mobil
>>Corp.'s Speedpass, to deal with the "sweaty jogger problem" -- cashless
>>runners coming in for coffee or Gatorade. The problem with RFID cards is
>>that anyone can use one that is lost or stolen. Not so with fingerprints.
>>
>>Jeff Baughan, vice president of information technology at Catholic Health
>>Systems in Buffalo, N.Y., says he anticipates some day installing wireless
>>readers on the carts used by nursers that would read patients' fingers, to
>>double-check that the right patient gets the right medicine. Currently, 
>>the
>>health-care system is installing Ultra-Scan Corp. devices that read 
>>fingers
>>to register incoming patients and make sure that different people aren't
>>using the same insurance card.
>>
>>Fingerprint-scanner authorization also is being used by business owners as
>>a replacement for lock combinations on safes. "Traditionally, two people
>>are given the same combination, and if there's a loss, how can you figure
>>out who took it?" says Edward McGunn, president of Corporate Safe
>>Specialists Inc., of Posen, Ill. He predicts that within two years, 80% of
>>his sales will be fingerprint safes, partly because it's much simpler to
>>train an unskilled manager to open one. "This is the most exciting time to
>>be in the safe business in my lifetime," says Mr. McGunn, a
>>third-generation safe maker.
>>
>>
>
>--
>Frank Siebenlist franks at mcs.anl.gov
>The Globus Alliance - Argonne National Laboratory
>
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From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 11:15:53 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:15:53 -0400
Subject: Airline ID requirement faces legal challenge
Message-ID: <p061104aebd91cf5c6f2b@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/surveillance/2004-10-10-privacy_x.htm>

USA Today



Airline ID requirement faces legal challenge
By Richard Willing, USA TODAY
At a time when Americans have come to expect tight security for air travel,
it might seem to be an odd question: Does requiring airline passengers to
show identification before they board domestic flights amount to an
"unreasonable search" under the Constitution?

John Gilmore is challenging the federal domestic airline ID requirement,
saying it violates his right to travel in the USA anonymously.
File photo

Yes, says John Gilmore, a computer whiz who made a fortune as an early
employee of Sun Microsystems. His challenge of the federal ID requirement,
which soon could get a hearing before a U.S. appeals court in San
Francisco, is one of the latest court battles to test the balance between
security concerns and civil liberties.

 At issue is Gilmore's claim that checking the IDs of passengers on
domestic flights violates his right to travel throughout the USA
anonymously, without the government monitoring him.

 Lawyers involved in the case say it apparently is the first such challenge
to the federal rules that require airline passengers to provide
identification. In a similar case, two peace activists are suing the U.S.
government to determine how their names came to be placed on a federal
"no-fly list." Rebecca Gordon and Janet Adams were not allowed to board a
San Francisco to Boston flight in August 2002 after they were told that
their names were on a "secret FBI" list of potential security threats,
their court filing says.

"I believe I have a right to travel in my own country without presenting
what amounts to an internal passport," Gilmore, 49, said in an interview.
"I have a right to be anonymous, (to not) be tracked by my government for
no good reason."

Gilmore said he has no problem with security checks that focus on
passengers' luggage. He says he also does not object to having to present a
passport to board flights to other countries.

 Some privacy groups say Gilmore has a point. But others who support the ID
requirement have cast the San Francisco resident as being out of touch with
the realities of air travel since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Kent Scheidegger, counsel for the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, a
conservative group in Sacramento, says the ID requirement is good policy
and "eminently constitutional."

"The Fourth Amendment forbids not searches that you don't like, it forbids
unreasonable searches," he says. "Nothing could be more reasonable at this
time than to know who you're flying with."

 The Justice Department is fighting Gilmore's claim. Acting on the
department's motion, a U.S. district court judge in San Francisco dismissed
the suit last March. Gilmore has appealed; a hearing before the 9th Circuit
Court of Appeals is likely to be scheduled after briefs are filed next
month.

In court papers, the Justice Department has not defended the ID policy, or
even acknowledged it exists. It has said national security law requires
that this aspect of the case be argued in a courtroom closed to the public,
including Gilmore. The appeals court denied the government's secrecy
request Sept. 20, and the government has asked the court to reconsider.

 Rules on the Transportation Security Administration's Web site say
passengers 18 and older need one form of government-issued photo
identification or two forms of non-photo identification to board domestic
flights.

 Airlines adopted such a policy on their own after terrorists bombed an
international flight over Lockerbie, Scotland, in December 1988. The bomb
that killed all 270 passengers on the jet was said to have been placed in a
passenger's luggage by a terrorist who got into a restricted area. The
airlines say checking IDs against luggage and passenger information is a
way to deny terrorists access to flights.

The TSA, formed two years ago in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, checks
IDs to verify passenger identities and to check them against "watch lists"
of known or suspected terrorists.

Gilmore's suit says the requirement amounts to an unreasonable search, a
"burden" on the right to travel and a form of self-incrimination because it
singles out "anonymous travelers" for searching.

Gilmore said the ID requirement does little to ensure security. "Ordinary
citizens may show correct identification, but do we really think that
someone who is willing to commit a terrorist act won't also be willing to
present false identification?"

Gilmore's suit was filed in 2002, after he was denied seats on two flights
at the airport in Oakland. It was his first domestic flight since the 9/11
attacks. Before then, Gilmore said, he was permitted to board flights after
presenting a Federal Aviation Administration document that said showing IDs
was optional.

In 1982, Gilmore, a computer programmer, was the first person hired by the
founders of what became Sun Microsystems. He retired eight years ago with
what his publicist, Bill Scannell, calls "multiples" of millions of dollars.

Since then, Gilmore said, he has worked to promote "individual rights," in
part by sponsoring a foundation that is critical of travel restrictions and
what he considers violations of speech and privacy rights.

Last year, before taking off on a British Airways flight from San Francisco
to London, Gilmore angered fellow travelers by refusing to remove a blue
button on his lapel that had the words "suspected terrorist" imposed over
the picture of an airliner. After a delay, the pilot went back to the gate
and ordered Gilmore off the jet.

While his case moves through court, Gilmore has remained grounded when it
comes to domestic travel.

He hired friends to drive him to San Diego and across the country to attend
board meetings of corporate and non-profit groups. He took a driving
vacation to Oregon. Invited to a family reunion in Massachusetts, he
thought of chartering a private plane but balked at the $33,000 price.

"Yes, it can be inconvenient at times," Gilmore said of his fight against
the ID requirement. "But I believe I'm right."


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 11:16:20 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:16:20 -0400
Subject: U.S. Funds Chat-Room Surveillance Study
Message-ID: <p061104adbd91cf4d6bb4@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25272-2004Oct11?language=printer>

The Washington Post

washingtonpost.com
U.S. Funds Chat-Room Surveillance Study


By Michael Hill
 The Associated Press
 Monday, October 11, 2004; 8:31 PM

 TROY, N.Y. -- Amid the torrent of jabber in Internet chat rooms - flirting
by QTpie and BoogieBoy, arguments about politics and horror flicks - are
terrorists plotting their next move?

The government certainly isn't discounting the possibility. It's taking the
idea seriously enough to fund a yearlong study on chat room surveillance
under an anti-terrorism program.

A Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute computer science professor hopes to
develop mathematical models that can uncover structure within the
scattershot traffic of online public forums.

 Chat rooms are the highly popular and freewheeling areas on the Internet
where people with self-created nicknames discuss just about anything:
teachers, Kafka, cute boys, politics, love, root canal. They are also
places where malicious hackers have been known to trade software tools,
stolen passwords and credit card numbers. The Pew Internet & American Life
Project estimates that 28 million Americans have visited Internet chat
rooms.

Trying to monitor the sea of traffic on all the chat channels would be like
assigning a police officer to listen in on every conversation on the
sidewalk - virtually impossible.

Instead of rummaging through megabytes of messages, RPI professor Bulent
Yener will use mathematical models in search of patterns in the chatter.
Downloading data from selected chat rooms, Yener will track the times that
messages were sent, creating a statistical profile of the traffic.

If, for instance, RatBoi and bowler1 consistently send messages within
seconds of each other in a crowded chat room, you could infer that they
were speaking to one another amid the "noise" of the chat room.

"For us, the challenge is to be able to determine, without reading the
messages, who is talking to whom," Yener said.

In search of "hidden communities," Yener also wants to check messages for
certain keywords that could reveal something about what's being discussed
in groups.

The $157,673 grant comes from the National Science Foundation's Approaches
to Combat Terrorism program. It was selected in coordination with the
nation's intelligence agencies.

The NSF's Leland Jameson said the foundation judged the proposal strictly
on its broader scientific merit, leaving it to the intelligence community
to determine its national security value. Neither the CIA nor the FBI would
comment on the grant, with a CIA spokeswoman citing the confidentiality of
sources and methods.

Security officials know al-Qaida and other terrorist groups use the
Internet for everything from propaganda to offering tips on kidnapping. But
it's not clear if terrorists rely much on chat rooms for planning and
coordination.

Michael Vatis, founding director of the National Infrastructure Protection
Center and now a consultant, said he had heard of terrorists using chat
rooms, which he said offer some security as long as code phrases are used.
Other cybersecurity experts doubted chat rooms' usefulness to terrorists
given the other current options, from Web mail to hiding messages on
designated Web pages that can only be seen by those who know where to look.

"In a world in which you can embed your message in a pixel on a picture on
a home page about tea cozies, I don't know whether if you're any better if
you think chat would be any particular magnet," Jonathan Zittrain, an
Internet scholar at Harvard Law School.

Since they are focusing on public chat rooms, authorities are not violating
constitutional rights to privacy when they keep an eye on the traffic,
experts said. Law enforcement agents have trolled chat rooms for years in
search of pedophiles, sometimes adopting profiles making it look like they
are young teens.

But the idea of the government reviewing massive amounts of public
communications still raises some concerns.

Mark Rasch, a former head of the Justice Department's computer crimes unit,
said such a system would bring the country one step closer to the
Pentagon's much-maligned Terrorism Information Awareness program.

Research on that massive data-mining project was halted after an uproar
over its impact on privacy.

"It's the ability to gather and analyze massive amounts of data that
creates the privacy problem," Rasch said, "even though no individual bit of
data is particularly private."

 ) 2004 The Asso
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Tue Oct 12 06:16:35 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:16:35 +0100
Subject: Congress Close to Establishing Rules for Driver's Licenses
In-Reply-To: <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org>
References: <p0611043abd90ce783887@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041012005554.G77998@ubzr.zsa.bet> <416BBA77.1090200@gmx.co.uk>
  <20041012131509.GC2415@jfet.org>
Message-ID: <416BD933.9000105@gmx.co.uk>

Riad S. Wahby wrote:
> ...except (ta-daaaa) the passport, which is universally accepted by
> liquor stores AFAICT.
And how many americans have a passport,and carry one for identification 
purposes?




From sunder at sunder.net  Tue Oct 12 11:33:25 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:33:25 -0400 (edt)
Subject: cryptome.org down?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410121432200.17055@silkworth.sunder.net>

DNS seems to resolve, but never get to the web server.


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 12 12:46:10 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:46:10 -0400
Subject: [osint] Al-Qa'ida 'Survival Kit' Instructs Workers on
  Individual  Conduct
Message-ID: <p061104bdbd91e4f9801a@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text


To: "Bruce Tefft" <btefft at community-research.com>
Thread-Index: AcSwgCBCG86YBOQdR3ixx7GwrZekMQAC8ROg
From: "Bruce Tefft" <btefft at community-research.com>
Mailing-List: list osint at yahoogroups.com; contact osint-owner at yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list osint at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:47:48 -0400
Subject: [osint] Al-Qa'ida 'Survival Kit' Instructs Workers on Individual
Conduct
Reply-To: osint at yahoogroups.com






Al-Qa'ida 'Survival Kit' Instructs Workers on Individual Conduct



An Al Qaeda survival kit, available to the media in the United States and
obtained also by Dawn, reveals how Osama bin Laden's network and its
supporters among the Taliban and other similar groups are preparing to
survive the US-led "war against terrorism".

The kit has been printed in several languages and is being distributed
secretly among Al Qaeda followers in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The
instructions aim to prepare the Taliban and Al Qaeda workers and their
sympathizers to survive on their own and also on how to communicate with
their central leaders without exposing them.

The contents show the groups are well aware of the changes brought about by
the "war on terrorism" and realise they can no longer work openly. That's
why they seem to be preparing for a long, clandestine war with the United
States and its allies.

Decentralization and secrecy are the two key elements of their new strategy,
which they hope to prolong also by exploiting religious sentiments of the
people they live with.

The point the survival kit emphasizes repeatedly is the need for the Taliban
and Al Qaeda workers to "merge with the masses" and thus "become
indistinguishable" from the rest of the people.

The copy obtained by Dawn comes complete with the pictures of 18 Al Qaeda
leaders who are on the FBI's most-wanted list. The first picture is that of
the network's leader Osama bin Laden, followed by his deputy Aiman al
Zawahiri and other top operatives. A caption above the pictures declares:
"These are Mujahideen, not dangerous religious terrorists".

"Every member will take all necessary precautions in his personal and social
life to protect the group and its leadership ... in his personal life, each
member shall merge completely with the society he lives in so that he is
indistinguishable from other members of the society."

Some of the instructions in the kit for Al Qaeda and Taliban units are: "If
you live in an area where people wear Western dresses, you also dress like
them ... if the majority in that area has a secular mindset, do not express
your religious sentiments."

"Look closely at the ethnic complexion of your neighbourhood ... if the area
has a large number of people from ethnic groups that support the government,
stay away from them because they often spy for intelligence agencies."

"Don't visit the local mosque regularly. Instead say your prayers at your
residence, even the weekly Friday prayer ... while looking for a residence,
have a credible, cover story that you will tell the landlord. Always stick
to that story."

"Don't roam around with beard and Islamic dress in fashionable
neighbourhoods. Always take out the chip of the mobile [phone] while
sleeping to avoid being caught. Use mobile [phone] from a crowded place so
police don't locate the position. Don't write the original numbers of
Mujahideen in a notebook; try to memorize the last three digits.

"If you live in an area where people do not have cars, avoid using vehicles
... if you have to stay inside your residence when other people go to work,
be quiet. Do not draw attention."

The kit also contains tips on the use of a cellphone: "Use a cellphone only
when you must and an alternative means of communication is not available ...
it is better not to use cell phones at all ... if you must use a cell phone,
use the one obtained under fake name and address ... never use a phone
provided by your 'nazm' [management] for calling a friend or a relative ...
if you ask your friends to call you, give them a specific time and keep your
phone open only when you are expecting a call."

"Do not receive a phone at your residence, do so at a bazaar or at an open
space and shut off the phone and disconnect the battery as soon as you
finish the conversation."

How Al Qaeda members must use the Internet: "For using the Internet, you
must go to an internet cafe ... never visit a site that can reveal your
identity, such as those belonging to FBI, Al Qaeda or the Mujahideen ...
when opening an e-mail account, go to an internet cafe, never do it at home
... never use the same internet cafe again and again ... before leaving the
cafe, remove all evidence, never leave any trace ... while sending an
e-mail, never use the language that could reveal your ideological
commitment."

"Write your message in a word processor, compose, cut, paste and send. And
then disconnect. Never let your e-mail open to write a message." police
interrogation: How to deal with police interrogation: "If unfortunately, a
friend is arrested, he should remember two things: do not assume that the
police know everything because they do not and always try to protect your
friends and colleagues."

"The police may try to make you believe that they already know everything
and that if you lie or try to hide information from them, you will
unnecessarily expose yourself to torture."

"The place you are arrested from is important. If you are arrested from
home, you will face a different set of questions than those arrested from a
place of operation or from a Mujahideen hideout."

"While being interrogated, try to guess if the interrogator suspects that
you are a Mujahid or he knows you are one and vary your responses
accordingly ... the investigators are humans like you, so do not let them
bully you or enjoy unnecessary influence over you."

"The key point is: you are not guilty unless proven, so do not let your
answers (be used) as evidence against you. Do not let your answers lead the
interrogators to other friends."

[Description of Source: Karachi Dawn in English -- Internet version of most
widely read English-language daily]

FBIS Source-Date: 10/12/2004



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Tue Oct 12 13:10:10 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:10:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
Message-ID: <19372866.1097611811150.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 12, 2004 1:43 PM
>To: franks at mcs.anl.gov
>Cc: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?

...
>Very interesting question. I'd bet almost any amount of money that it's 
>fairly trivial to simply alligator-clip-out the fingerprint's file from 
>almost any of the cheaper devices. Hell, I'd bet that's true even of more 
>expensive "secure" devices as well.

I don't think the readers store an image of the fingerprint, just some information to make it easy to verify a match.  I don't think you could reconstruct a fingerprint from that information, though you could presumably reconstruct a fingerprint image that would fool the detector.

>From what I've seen, the whole field of biometrics needs a lot of work on characterizing the attacks and defenses against them, and coming up with reasonable ways to verify that a reader resists some attack.  I think individual vendors often have some ideas about this (though I gather their defenses are often disabled to keep the false reject rate acceptably low), but there doesn't seem to be a clean process for determining how skilled an attacker needs to be to, say, scan my finger once, and produce either a fake finger or a machine for projecting a fake fingerprint into the reader.   Anyone know whether some kind of standard for this exists?  

>-TD

--John




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Oct 12 16:19:21 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:19:21 -0700
Subject: cryptome.org down?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410121432200.17055@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <E1CHTBM-0002ZU-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

The site has been overloaded for a couple of days due
to heavy hits on files on the Indymedia UK takedown
and the "Bush bulge." A Slashdot attack added to that
yesterday but has gone away. Today The Reg cited
the Bush bulge file and the overload restarted. It'll
pass shortly, maybe.




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 12 13:59:06 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:59:06 -0400
Subject: Airline ID requirement faces legal challenge
Message-ID: <BAY24-F7AyHsjCGvseE000046d3@hotmail.com>

Actually, this story is quite the media bellweather. This one treats the 
case purely as "Gilmore wants to fly anonymously", while even some other 
mainline media are reporting it as, "Gilmore is questioning the legality of 
hidden laws".

I guess USA Today still feels it has an audience worth pandering to.

-TD




>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net, cryptography at metzdowd.com
>Subject: Airline ID requirement faces legal challenge
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:15:53 -0400
>
><http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/surveillance/2004-10-10-privacy_x.htm>
>
>USA Today
>
>
>
>Airline ID requirement faces legal challenge
>By Richard Willing, USA TODAY
>At a time when Americans have come to expect tight security for air travel,
>it might seem to be an odd question: Does requiring airline passengers to
>show identification before they board domestic flights amount to an
>"unreasonable search" under the Constitution?
>
>John Gilmore is challenging the federal domestic airline ID requirement,
>saying it violates his right to travel in the USA anonymously.
>File photo
>
>Yes, says John Gilmore, a computer whiz who made a fortune as an early
>employee of Sun Microsystems. His challenge of the federal ID requirement,
>which soon could get a hearing before a U.S. appeals court in San
>Francisco, is one of the latest court battles to test the balance between
>security concerns and civil liberties.
>
>  At issue is Gilmore's claim that checking the IDs of passengers on
>domestic flights violates his right to travel throughout the USA
>anonymously, without the government monitoring him.
>
>  Lawyers involved in the case say it apparently is the first such 
>challenge
>to the federal rules that require airline passengers to provide
>identification. In a similar case, two peace activists are suing the U.S.
>government to determine how their names came to be placed on a federal
>"no-fly list." Rebecca Gordon and Janet Adams were not allowed to board a
>San Francisco to Boston flight in August 2002 after they were told that
>their names were on a "secret FBI" list of potential security threats,
>their court filing says.
>
>"I believe I have a right to travel in my own country without presenting
>what amounts to an internal passport," Gilmore, 49, said in an interview.
>"I have a right to be anonymous, (to not) be tracked by my government for
>no good reason."
>
>Gilmore said he has no problem with security checks that focus on
>passengers' luggage. He says he also does not object to having to present a
>passport to board flights to other countries.
>
>  Some privacy groups say Gilmore has a point. But others who support the 
>ID
>requirement have cast the San Francisco resident as being out of touch with
>the realities of air travel since the Sept. 11 attacks.
>
>Kent Scheidegger, counsel for the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, a
>conservative group in Sacramento, says the ID requirement is good policy
>and "eminently constitutional."
>
>"The Fourth Amendment forbids not searches that you don't like, it forbids
>unreasonable searches," he says. "Nothing could be more reasonable at this
>time than to know who you're flying with."
>
>  The Justice Department is fighting Gilmore's claim. Acting on the
>department's motion, a U.S. district court judge in San Francisco dismissed
>the suit last March. Gilmore has appealed; a hearing before the 9th Circuit
>Court of Appeals is likely to be scheduled after briefs are filed next
>month.
>
>In court papers, the Justice Department has not defended the ID policy, or
>even acknowledged it exists. It has said national security law requires
>that this aspect of the case be argued in a courtroom closed to the public,
>including Gilmore. The appeals court denied the government's secrecy
>request Sept. 20, and the government has asked the court to reconsider.
>
>  Rules on the Transportation Security Administration's Web site say
>passengers 18 and older need one form of government-issued photo
>identification or two forms of non-photo identification to board domestic
>flights.
>
>  Airlines adopted such a policy on their own after terrorists bombed an
>international flight over Lockerbie, Scotland, in December 1988. The bomb
>that killed all 270 passengers on the jet was said to have been placed in a
>passenger's luggage by a terrorist who got into a restricted area. The
>airlines say checking IDs against luggage and passenger information is a
>way to deny terrorists access to flights.
>
>The TSA, formed two years ago in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, checks
>IDs to verify passenger identities and to check them against "watch lists"
>of known or suspected terrorists.
>
>Gilmore's suit says the requirement amounts to an unreasonable search, a
>"burden" on the right to travel and a form of self-incrimination because it
>singles out "anonymous travelers" for searching.
>
>Gilmore said the ID requirement does little to ensure security. "Ordinary
>citizens may show correct identification, but do we really think that
>someone who is willing to commit a terrorist act won't also be willing to
>present false identification?"
>
>Gilmore's suit was filed in 2002, after he was denied seats on two flights
>at the airport in Oakland. It was his first domestic flight since the 9/11
>attacks. Before then, Gilmore said, he was permitted to board flights after
>presenting a Federal Aviation Administration document that said showing IDs
>was optional.
>
>In 1982, Gilmore, a computer programmer, was the first person hired by the
>founders of what became Sun Microsystems. He retired eight years ago with
>what his publicist, Bill Scannell, calls "multiples" of millions of 
>dollars.
>
>Since then, Gilmore said, he has worked to promote "individual rights," in
>part by sponsoring a foundation that is critical of travel restrictions and
>what he considers violations of speech and privacy rights.
>
>Last year, before taking off on a British Airways flight from San Francisco
>to London, Gilmore angered fellow travelers by refusing to remove a blue
>button on his lapel that had the words "suspected terrorist" imposed over
>the picture of an airliner. After a delay, the pilot went back to the gate
>and ordered Gilmore off the jet.
>
>While his case moves through court, Gilmore has remained grounded when it
>comes to domestic travel.
>
>He hired friends to drive him to San Diego and across the country to attend
>board meetings of corporate and non-profit groups. He took a driving
>vacation to Oregon. Invited to a family reunion in Massachusetts, he
>thought of chartering a private plane but balked at the $33,000 price.
>
>"Yes, it can be inconvenient at times," Gilmore said of his fight against
>the ID requirement. "But I believe I'm right."
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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From morlockelloi at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 12 23:19:19 2004
From: morlockelloi at yahoo.com (Morlock Elloi)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (un)intended anonymity feature of gmail
Message-ID: <20041013061919.9527.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com>

Unless I'm missing something obvious, it seems impossible to divine the
origination IP address from gmail-sourced e-mail headers. The first IP (the
last header) has 10.*.*.* form and is of course internal to google.

This is not the case with any other e-mail service I know of (mixmaster
excluded), the real originating IP is always included.

So the recipient of gmail message has no way of determining what the sender's
real IP is.


=====
end
(of original message)

Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:


		
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From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 13 01:50:21 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 03:50:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Poor privacy protection in the states
In-Reply-To: <e7a477a9c51166d266a319a3d4e78b36@dizum.com>
References: <e7a477a9c51166d266a319a3d4e78b36@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <20041013034759.S77998@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> Why don't Americans honour security and privacy higher?

Good question.

Basically, we're a bunch of closet fascists.


> Look at this page
> http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/police/prostitution_photos_current.ht
> ml

Hey,
	Tinklenberg, Chi Christine
	Home: Saint Paul, MN
	Age: 34
	Height: 5-03
	Weight: 120

is kinda cute!


> Which is from a police department!
> http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/police/
>
>
> If we look at the spirit of this quote I don't see how it is ok to
> behave in this abusive manner by the authorities.

Join the club.  next...


> "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
> papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall
> not be violated..."
>
> (from the fourth amendment, US constitution)

Um, I'm sorry - maybe you hadn't heard yet: that old piece of paper was
superceded on 11 Sep 01, when "everything changed".

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 13 09:27:20 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:27:20 -0700
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
   real money)
In-Reply-To: <p06110468bd91939f6ebb@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <28535172.1097588941261.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <416CF4F8.1291.53B440E@localhost>

    --
On 12 Oct 2004 at 10:52, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> A long time ago I came to the conclusion that the closer we
> get to transaction instantaneity, the less counterparty
> identity matters at all. That is, the fastest transaction we
> can think of is a cryptographically secure glop of bits that
> is issued by an entity who is responsible for the integrity
> of the transaction and the quality of assets that the bits
> represent. Blind signature notes work fine for a first-order
> approximation. In other words, an internet bearer 
> transaction.
>
> In such a scenario, nobody *cares* who the counterparties are
> for two reasons. The first reason is existential: title to
> the asset has transferred instantaneously. There is *no*
> float. I have it now, so I don't *care* who you were,
> because, well, it's *mine* now. :-).
>
> Second, keeping an audit trail when the title is never in
> question is, in the best circumstances superfluous and
> expensive, and, in the worst, even dangerous for any of a
> number of security reasons,

Two problems:

1.  Instantaneous and complete transfer is irrevocable, thus
attractive to ten million phishing spammers, virus witers etc.

2.  Governments want everyone to keep records on everyone else,
and make those records available to the government, thus
discriminate against the more cashlike forms of internet money.

It is clear that the world needs a fully cashlike form of
internet money, that there is real demand for this, but the low
security of personal computers makes it insecure from thieves,
and the hostility of national governments make it insecure from
governments. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     DomXDn/9ASGjDlA7/rM0YxIpV6BFP/F2G82U5fRF
     4q51oYmi85ShC8+0oDT4+4nUVsGKolpQZ+8ozyJWM




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 13 06:40:44 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:40:44 -0400
Subject: Poor privacy protection in the states
Message-ID: <BAY24-F1482etvHGrvx00018148@hotmail.com>

JAT wrote...

>Basically, we're a bunch of closet fascists.

and

>Um, I'm sorry - maybe you hadn't heard yet: that old piece of paper was
>superceded on 11 Sep 01, when "everything changed".

I think that's the day we came out of the closet.

Read, "Radio Free Albemuth" by P.K. Dick and you'll get the picture of where 
we're headed.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 13 09:47:36 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: How key Microsoft legal emails 'autodestruct'
In-Reply-To: <p06110486bd91a88c564f@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <416CF9B8.26881.54DD2AD@localhost>

    --
On 12 Oct 2004 at 11:28, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> The latest court documents to be unsealed by Judge Frederick
> Motz in Burst.com's suit against Microsoft paint a picture of
> Microsoft document handling procedures which destroyed the
> very emails that were likely to be most relevant to several
> antitrust actions, Burst's included. According to Burst's
> lawyers Microsoft's status as "a defendant in major antitrust
> cases since at least 1995" means that it has a duty to
> preserve potentially relevant evidence. But "Microsoft 
> adopted policies that, to put it mildly, encouraged document 
> destruction from 1995 forward."

Reflect on all the people and businesses that got into legal
trouble by keeping documents.

Now reflect on all the peole and business that got into legal
trouble by destroying documents.

Clearly it is better to be charged for destroying documents,
than charged for what is in those documents.

> But if Microsoft does have a policy to diligently retain
> relevant documents, well, it clearly needs to write a new
> policy that works instead.

Any law that requires people to be diligent and competent in
making a noose and placing it on their own necks, is likely to
encounter truly amazing levels of incompetence.  I lose
documents I actually *want* to retain often enough.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     +ZAfeUcS9FaQ5e/s/KtKhDOzmNZSqOwi4NG3FEkT
     45Viouthce4l/DdT+MgqjhbEeA7iBBCUDG84cD2Iq




From nobody at dizum.com  Wed Oct 13 01:30:03 2004
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:30:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Poor privacy protection in the states
Message-ID: <e7a477a9c51166d266a319a3d4e78b36@dizum.com>

Why don't Americans honour security and privacy higher?

Look at this page
http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/police/prostitution_photos_current.ht
ml

Which is from a police department!
http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/police/


If we look at the spirit of this quote I don't see how it is ok to
behave in this abusive manner by the authorities.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall
not be violated..." 

(from the fourth amendment, US constitution)

It is one thing if we're talking about very dangerous individuals who
are being sought after by the police and who the public needs to be
aware of but here we have a completely different situation.

Why is the integrity and security of the simple man on the street not
honoured in the US society today? It's a big difference between the
protection of personal privacy in Europe and in the US and all
Americans should really ask themselves why this has to be.




From apb at cequrux.com  Wed Oct 13 01:38:30 2004
From: apb at cequrux.com (Alan Barrett)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:38:30 +0200
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
In-Reply-To: <19372866.1097611811150.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <19372866.1097611811150.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041013083830.GC8532@apb-laptoy.apb.alt.za>

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, John Kelsey wrote:
> but there doesn't seem to be a clean process for determining how
> skilled an attacker needs to be to, say, scan my finger once, and
> produce either a fake finger or a machine for projecting a fake
> fingerprint into the reader.

... or a replacement reader that fakes the signals to the rest of the
security system.

--apb (Alan Barrett)




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 13 12:51:22 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:51:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
 real money)
Message-ID: <mailman.1044.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

>From: Chris Kuethe <chris.kuethe at gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 13, 2004 1:15 PM
>To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Cc: cryptography at metzdowd.com,
>	"cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
>real money)

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:27:20 -0700, James A. Donald <jamesd at echeque.com> wrote:
> Two problems:
...

>> It is clear that the world needs a fully cashlike form of
>> internet money, that there is real demand for this, but the low
>> security of personal computers makes it insecure from thieves,
>> and the hostility of national governments make it insecure from
>> governments.

>Agreed. I would hope that users of "iCash" get fully educated on what
>that entails: that that blob of bits is just as much $20 as that green
>piece of paper or that big pile of quarters. And if someone gets it
>and spends it, you may as well have been mugged.

Okay, but there's a problem:  If you want to mug me personally, you have to
show up where I am, catch me unaware, take some personal risk that I'll
fight back or shoot you or something, or that a cop will happen by at an
inopportune moment, or that there's some surveilance camera you don't know
about catching the whole thing on tape.  At the end of that, you've done
one mugging, and made maybe $100 or so.  This is why mugging, armed
robbery, etc., is basically a crime for people who don't think too far
ahead.

If you want to steal anonymous bearer assets from networked computers,
you're going to contrive to do a whole lot of it at once, and you're going
to have enormous incentives to develop new attacks to do so.  I have to
care about attackers everywhere on Earth, and about the most capable
getting past my defenses.  It's not like trying to keep random bored
teenagers from breaking into your house by putting a proper lock on a
properly installed door, it's like trying to keep a team of ex-SEALs,
safecrackers, locksmiths, and demolition experts from breaking into your
house.

Today, most of what I'm trying to defend myself from online is done as
either a kind of hobby (most viruses), or as fairly low-end scams that
probably net the criminals reasonable amounts of money, but probably don't
make them rich.  Imagine a world where there are a few hundred million
dollars in untraceable assets waiting to be stolen, but only on Windows XP
boxes with the latest patches, firewalls and scanners installed, and
reasonable security settings.  IMO, that's a world where every day is day
zero.  All bugs are shallow, given enough qualified eyeballs, and with that
kind of money on the table, there would be plenty of eyeballs looking.

And once it's done, several thousand early adopters are out thousands of
dollars each.  This isn't much of an advertisement for the payment system.
It's anonymous and based on bearer instruments, so there's no way to run
the fraudulent transactions back.  The money's gone, and the attackers are
richer, and the next, more demanding round of attacks has been capitalized.

>People do eventually learn when it costs them something out of pocket.
>Now that they've learned that the white headphones mean "I'm a target
>with an iPod, mug me!" I see a lot of iPod users with boring old sony
>or koss headphones. Right now, insecurity doesn't cost the end-user
>enough. As soon as some virus comes along and wipes out some new york
>times columnist's savings, and he screams about it, then and only then
>will the slightest nonzero percentage of the sheeple pay attention for
>a bit.

They also have to be able to do something about it.  What would you tell a
reasonably bright computer programmer with no particular expertise in
security about how to keep a bearer asset as valuable as his car stored
securely on a networked computer?  If you can't give him an answer that
will really work in a world where these bearer assets are  common, you're
just not going to get a widespread bearer payment system working, for the
same reason that there's probably nobody jogging with an iPod through
random the streets of Sadr City, no matter how careful they're being.

...

--John Kelsey


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--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 13 15:38:42 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:38:42 -0400
Subject: FDA approves use of implantable chip in patients to pass
  medical  information to doctors
Message-ID: <p061104bcbd9353ad7413@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/a/2004/10/13/national0948EDT0497.DTL&type=printable>

 




          www.sfgate.com        

FDA approves use of implantable chip in patients to pass medical
information to doctors
 - DIEDTRA HENDERSON, AP Science Writer
 Wednesday, October 13, 2004



(10-13) 10:05 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

 The Food and Drug Administration on Wednesday approved an implantable
computer chip that can pass a patient's medical details to doctors,
speeding care.

 VeriChips, radio frequency microchips the size of a grain of rice, have
already been used to identify wayward pets and livestock. And nearly 200
people working in Mexico's attorney general's office have been implanted
with chips to access secure areas containing sensitive documents.

 Delray Beach, Fla.-based Applied Digital Solutions said it would give away
$650 scanners to roughly 200 trauma centers around the nation to help speed
its entry into the health care market.

 A company spokesman would not say how much implanting chips would cost for
humans, even though chips have been implanted in some, including Scott R.
Silverman, the company's chief executive officer.

 The company is targeting patients with diabetes, chronic cardiac
conditions, Alzheimer's disease and those who undergo complex treatments
like chemotherapy, said Dr. Richard Seelig, Applied Digital Solutions' vice
president of medical applications.

 It's the first time the FDA has approved medical use of the device, though
in Mexico, more than 1,000 scannable chips have been implanted in patients.
The chip's serial number pulls up the patients' blood type and other
medical information.

 With the pinch of a syringe, the microchip is inserted under the skin in a
procedure that takes less than 20 minutes and leaves no stitches.

 Silently and invisibly, the dormant chip stores a code -- similar to the
identifying UPC code on products sold in retail stores -- that releases
patient-specific information when a scanner passes over the chip.

 At the doctor's office those codes stamped onto chips, once scanned, would
reveal such information as a patient's allergies and prior treatments.

 The FDA in October 2002 said that the agency would regulate health care
applications possible through VeriChip. Meanwhile, the chip has been used
for a number of security-related tasks as well as for pure whimsy: Club
hoppers in Barcelona, Spain, now use the microchip much like a smartcard to
speed drink orders and payment.
 On the Net:

 VeriChip: www.4verichip.com/index.htm


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From arma at mit.edu  Thu Oct 14 03:36:18 2004
From: arma at mit.edu (Roger Dingledine)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:36:18 -0400
Subject: Tor 0.0.9pre3 is out
Message-ID: <mailman.1045.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Along with the bugfixes from 0.0.8.1, plus more bugfixes, this release
makes the dirservers file obsolete (finally) in favor of config option
lines to specify the location and fingerprint of each dirserver you
want to trust. We also now support the use of an http proxy for fetching
directories.

tarball:   http://freehaven.net/tor/dist/tor-0.0.9pre3.tar.gz
signature: http://freehaven.net/tor/dist/tor-0.0.9pre3.tar.gz.asc
(use -dPr tor-0_0_9pre3 if you want to check out from cvs)

  o Bugfixes on 0.0.8.1:
    - Better torrc example lines for dirbindaddress and orbindaddress.
    - Improved bounds checking on parsed ints (e.g. config options and
      the ones we find in directories.)
    - Better handling of size_t vs int, so we're more robust on 64
      bit platforms.
    - Fix the rest of the bug where a newly started OR would appear
      as unverified even after we've added his fingerprint and hupped
      the dirserver.
    - Fix a bug from 0.0.7: when read() failed on a stream, we would
      close it without sending back an end. So 'connection refused'
      would simply be ignored and the user would get no response.

  o Bugfixes on 0.0.9pre2:
    - Serving the cached-on-disk directory to people is bad. We now
      provide no directory until we've fetched a fresh one.
    - Workaround for bug on windows where cached-directories get crlf
      corruption.
    - Make get_default_conf_file() work on older windows too.
    - If we write a *:* exit policy line in the descriptor, don't write
      any more exit policy lines.

  o Features:
    - Use only 0.0.9pre1 and later servers for resolve cells.
    - Make the dirservers file obsolete.
      - Include a dir-signing-key token in directories to tell the
        parsing entity which key is being used to sign.
      - Remove the built-in bulky default dirservers string.
      - New config option "Dirserver %s:%d [fingerprint]", which can be
        repeated as many times as needed. If no dirservers specified,
        default to moria1,moria2,tor26.
    - Make moria2 advertise a dirport of 80, so people behind firewalls
      will be able to get a directory.
    - Http proxy support
      - Dirservers translate requests for http://%s:%d/x to /x
      - You can specify "HttpProxy %s[:%d]" and all dir fetches will
        be routed through this host.
      - Clients ask for /tor/x rather than /x for new enough dirservers.
        This way we can one day coexist peacefully with apache.
      - Clients specify a "Host: %s%d" http header, to be compatible
        with more proxies, and so running squid on an exit node can work.

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Oct 14 03:45:03 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:45:03 +0200
Subject: Tor 0.0.9pre3 is out (fwd from arma@mit.edu)
Message-ID: <20041014104503.GV1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Roger Dingledine <arma at mit.edu> -----


From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 14 11:42:22 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:42:22 -0400
Subject: Certicom sees lift from entertainment industry
Message-ID: <p06110417bd9478f03112@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1097704208483&call_pageid=968350072197>

TheStar.com

Oct. 14, 2004. 01:00 AM
Certicom sees lift from entertainment industry


Certicom Corp. sees growing demand for its data encryption technology in
both government and the private sector, its CEO told the annual meeting
yesterday.

 The explosion of digital music, movies and books that are easily copied is
causing companies such as The Walt Disney Co. and Time Warner Inc. to
demand electronic devices and distribution networks be fully secure, Ian
McKinnon said.

 "DVD players, set-top boxes and digital cable carry vast amounts of
valuable content, all of which is very easy to copy," McKinnon said. "Very
soon, every consumer device needs to have security embedded in its hardware
to protect content. That's obviously a vast market."

 The technology at the core of Certicom's products - elliptic-curve
cryptography, or ECC - is well suited to such purposes since it can work
faster and requires less computing power and storage than conventional
forms of cryptography, he said.

 Certicom got a lift from a $25 million (U.S.) contract to supply software
to the U.S. National Security Agency, giving the Mississauga-based company
its first profitable year and endorsing ECC as its new encryption standard,
McKinnon said.

 The security agency's purchase provided most of Certicom's revenue of
$34.5 million in its financial year ended April 30. The year's profit was
$16.8 million, or 47 cents per share.

 The contract was followed by a deal with Research In Motion Ltd., which is
embedding Certicom's technology in its BlackBerry wireless e-mail products
and paying royalties over a number of quarters.

 In the first quarter of its current fiscal year, Certicom's revenue was up
by $700,000, or nearly 32 per cent, from $2.2 million a year earlier. But
the company fell back into the red in the May-July quarter, albeit with a
$1.2 million loss that was 25 per cent smaller than the $1.6 million
reported a year earlier.

 Asked by a shareholder when Certicom would achieve sustainable
profitability, McKinnon said he is "extremely upbeat about the company's
future" but is not prepared to provide guidance on revenue or profitability.

 "As goes ECC adoption will go the growth of the company."

CANADIAN PRESS



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 14 16:08:59 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:08:59 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <p06110441bd9498c8a7e3@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/printct20041013.shtml>

Townhall.com

Airport insanity
Cal Thomas (back to web version) | Send

October 13, 2004

Ted Kennedy and I have something in common. We are both on airline lists as
potential terror suspects.

Kennedy was recently denied access to a US Airways flight out of
Washington, one he has taken for 40 years.

I am on a US Airways list of some type that apparently requires airline
employees to take my driver's license behind closed doors, have a
conference and then stamp my ticket with a code that mandates my person and
my carry-on bag be searched. Every time I fly, which is sometimes several
times a week. I especially appreciate the crotch grab to make sure I'm not
hiding any weapons of mass destruction. How would you like to be the
trainer for this procedure?

The idiocy virus is now spreading to other airlines. It seems someone who
shares my name is wanted by authorities. I hope he is getting some of my
hate mail. Logic should dictate that once I prove I am not the guy they are
looking for, they would take me off the suspect list. But, no, our misnamed
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is anything but logical.

US Airways gives me a TSA phone number to call. I am not surprised when a
machine answers. The machine promises a "prompt" response. I leave a
message. There is no response. A few days later, I call again. Same
recording, same message, same non-response. I send an e-mail to TSA. This
time I receive an "automated reply," assuring me of a prompt response. Two
days later, I receive another e-mail informing me I will have to fill out a
form to prove I am not a terrorist. This is an interesting twist on the
"innocent until proven guilty" standard in law.

The confusion plot thickens. Two weeks ago, TSA approved my application for
"registered traveler" status as part of an experimental program at some
airports for frequent travelers. I recorded my "eye print" and fingerprint,
and now a machine can identify me and allow me to go to the head of the
security line, but only at the airport where I applied.

Other participating airports require applications to be made at each of
those airports, even though the paperwork presumably goes to TSA
headquarters. Why can't TSA look at that one application that has been
approved and take me off their "watch list," or whatever they call it? Is
"logic" not in government dictionaries?

Things have become so ridiculous on the road that a TSA screener in Duluth,
Minn., last week required me to open my computer bag, whereupon she used
one of those devices that resemble a deodorant pad and wiped every
electrical cord. When I asked why, she responded, "The downed Russian
airliners." When I noted that Duluth was the only airport in the country
where my electrical cords had been wiped, she replied, "Everyone is
supposed to."

The arbitrariness of all of this makes me think the "security" system isn't
very secure and that it is all a sham created by politicians to fool the
public into believing they are protecting us. Meanwhile, millions cross our
borders illegally, including untold numbers from countries that hate us.

Why isn't the Bush administration doing something about illegal immigration
instead of pretending these people are coming here solely to do manual
labor we native Americans don't want to do? Wouldn't we be safer if we
prevented those who wish us harm from getting into the country?

Thanks to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's misguided policy of
refusing to profile travelers, we get equal opportunity inconvenience and
stupidity. Imagine if cops were prohibited from describing gender, race or
other physical characteristics when broadcasting an all-points bulletin for
a suspect.

My profile is radically different from all those who killed nearly 3,000 of
my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My "holy book" of choice is the Bible.
My race is Caucasian. I am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
English-as-first-language, natural-born American. If profiling were
allowed, I wouldn't be the one filling out government forms to prove I'm
not a terrorist. The other guys would.

This is an outrage! The form will soon be in the mail. They'll probably
send me a note assuring me of a prompt reply, before misplacing the
application. Senator Kennedy, can you help?


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org  Thu Oct 14 12:26:02 2004
From: brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org (brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org)
Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:26:02 -0000
Subject: New Technique Could Trace Documents By Printer
Message-ID: <mailman.1046.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/14/1742224
Posted by: timothy, on 2004-10-14 18:28:00

   from the better-than-a-notch-in-the-e dept.
   An anonymous reader submits "From [1]this article at Purdue News,
   'Researchers at Purdue University have developed a method that will
   enable authorities to trace documents to specific printers, a
   technique law-enforcement agencies could use to investigate
   counterfeiting, forgeries and homeland security matters.' The neat
   thing is that they are exploiting the characteristics of the print
   process itself to identify the printer." One of the folks e-mailed me
   to say that [2]the HP LaserJet 9000dn was one of the big ones tested
   with.

   IFRAME: [3]pos6

References

   1.
http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2004/041011.Delp.forensics.html
   2. http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/page.pl?tid=10541
   3.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2936&alloc_id=10685&site_id=1&request_id=2825914

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Thu Oct 14 13:25:24 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:25:24 +0100
Subject: Certicom sees lift from entertainment industry
In-Reply-To: <p06110417bd9478f03112@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p06110417bd9478f03112@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <416EE0B4.407@gmx.co.uk>

R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>  The technology at the core of Certicom's products - elliptic-curve
> cryptography, or ECC - is well suited to such purposes since it can work
> faster and requires less computing power and storage than conventional
> forms of cryptography, he said.
Well, best of luck to them. any scheme where they *have* to give you the 
decryption key before you can use the product is doomed from the start, 
its just a matter of how long it takes. The satellite/cable companies 
are fighting hard to stay ahead of the game with their live-to-view 
product - by frequently changing the crypto whenever it is broken; no 
recorded product can possibly hold out more than a few months after launch.




From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Oct 14 12:26:28 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:26:28 +0200
Subject: New Technique Could Trace Documents By Printer (fwd from
  brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
Message-ID: <20041014192628.GZ1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org -----


From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 07:02:46 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:02:46 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com>

First of all, the guy is a major dumbass...

>My profile is radically different from all those who killed nearly 3,000 of
>my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My "holy book" of choice is the Bible.
>My race is Caucasian. I am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
>English-as-first-language, natural-born American. If profiling were
>allowed, I wouldn't be the one filling out government forms to prove I'm
>not a terrorist. The other guys would.

I'm thinking that the state-of-the-art on Cypherpunks is such that no real 
comment here is necessary.


>The arbitrariness of all of this makes me think the "security" system isn't
>very secure and that it is all a sham created by politicians to fool the
>public into believing they are protecting us. Meanwhile, millions cross our
>borders illegally, including untold numbers from countries that hate us.

This is precisely why Al-Qaeda sent 19 (or probably more) true-believers. 
Even if TSA lowers the odds, all you have to do is roll the dice many more 
times, and a few of the faithful will definitely get through the checkpoint. 
Security measures might stop a lone crazy, but the odds don't stand up if 
they send dozens of people into airports all around the country. And Iraq II 
is promising us a bumper crop of new 'terrorists'.

Seems to me it's going to be much easier for the US to stop fucking around 
over there. Oh wait, we can't do that because "then the terrorists have 
won". Waitaminute...doesn't Algeria prove that terrorism wins, eventually?

-TD



>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net, cryptography at metzdowd.com
>Subject: Airport insanity
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:08:59 -0400
>
><http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/printct20041013.shtml>
>
>Townhall.com
>
>Airport insanity
>Cal Thomas (back to web version) | Send
>
>October 13, 2004
>
>Ted Kennedy and I have something in common. We are both on airline lists as
>potential terror suspects.
>
>Kennedy was recently denied access to a US Airways flight out of
>Washington, one he has taken for 40 years.
>
>I am on a US Airways list of some type that apparently requires airline
>employees to take my driver's license behind closed doors, have a
>conference and then stamp my ticket with a code that mandates my person and
>my carry-on bag be searched. Every time I fly, which is sometimes several
>times a week. I especially appreciate the crotch grab to make sure I'm not
>hiding any weapons of mass destruction. How would you like to be the
>trainer for this procedure?
>
>The idiocy virus is now spreading to other airlines. It seems someone who
>shares my name is wanted by authorities. I hope he is getting some of my
>hate mail. Logic should dictate that once I prove I am not the guy they are
>looking for, they would take me off the suspect list. But, no, our misnamed
>Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is anything but logical.
>
>US Airways gives me a TSA phone number to call. I am not surprised when a
>machine answers. The machine promises a "prompt" response. I leave a
>message. There is no response. A few days later, I call again. Same
>recording, same message, same non-response. I send an e-mail to TSA. This
>time I receive an "automated reply," assuring me of a prompt response. Two
>days later, I receive another e-mail informing me I will have to fill out a
>form to prove I am not a terrorist. This is an interesting twist on the
>"innocent until proven guilty" standard in law.
>
>The confusion plot thickens. Two weeks ago, TSA approved my application for
>"registered traveler" status as part of an experimental program at some
>airports for frequent travelers. I recorded my "eye print" and fingerprint,
>and now a machine can identify me and allow me to go to the head of the
>security line, but only at the airport where I applied.
>
>Other participating airports require applications to be made at each of
>those airports, even though the paperwork presumably goes to TSA
>headquarters. Why can't TSA look at that one application that has been
>approved and take me off their "watch list," or whatever they call it? Is
>"logic" not in government dictionaries?
>
>Things have become so ridiculous on the road that a TSA screener in Duluth,
>Minn., last week required me to open my computer bag, whereupon she used
>one of those devices that resemble a deodorant pad and wiped every
>electrical cord. When I asked why, she responded, "The downed Russian
>airliners." When I noted that Duluth was the only airport in the country
>where my electrical cords had been wiped, she replied, "Everyone is
>supposed to."
>
>The arbitrariness of all of this makes me think the "security" system isn't
>very secure and that it is all a sham created by politicians to fool the
>public into believing they are protecting us. Meanwhile, millions cross our
>borders illegally, including untold numbers from countries that hate us.
>
>Why isn't the Bush administration doing something about illegal immigration
>instead of pretending these people are coming here solely to do manual
>labor we native Americans don't want to do? Wouldn't we be safer if we
>prevented those who wish us harm from getting into the country?
>
>Thanks to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's misguided policy of
>refusing to profile travelers, we get equal opportunity inconvenience and
>stupidity. Imagine if cops were prohibited from describing gender, race or
>other physical characteristics when broadcasting an all-points bulletin for
>a suspect.
>
>My profile is radically different from all those who killed nearly 3,000 of
>my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My "holy book" of choice is the Bible.
>My race is Caucasian. I am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
>English-as-first-language, natural-born American. If profiling were
>allowed, I wouldn't be the one filling out government forms to prove I'm
>not a terrorist. The other guys would.
>
>This is an outrage! The form will soon be in the mail. They'll probably
>send me a note assuring me of a prompt reply, before misplacing the
>application. Senator Kennedy, can you help?
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 15 08:58:43 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:58:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <32421624.1097855923779.JavaMail.root@fozzie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 15, 2004 10:02 AM
>To: rah at shipwright.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net, cryptography at metzdowd.com
>Subject: RE: Airport insanity

>First of all, the guy is a major dumbass...

>>My profile is radically different from all those who killed nearly 3,000 of
>>my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My "holy book" of choice is the Bible.
>>My race is Caucasian. I am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
>>English-as-first-language, natural-born American. If profiling were
>>allowed, I wouldn't be the one filling out government forms to prove I'm
>>not a terrorist. The other guys would.

>I'm thinking that the state-of-the-art on Cypherpunks is such that no real 
>comment here is necessary.

"Ahh, thanks for flying, Mr McVeigh.  You're in seat 1A, just behind the cockpit.  We like to put patriotic Americans there to make sure there's no risk of in-flight terrorism."  

>This is precisely why Al-Qaeda sent 19 (or probably more) true-believers. 
>Even if TSA lowers the odds, all you have to do is roll the dice many more 
>times, and a few of the faithful will definitely get through the checkpoint. 
>Security measures might stop a lone crazy, but the odds don't stand up if 
>they send dozens of people into airports all around the country. And Iraq II 
>is promising us a bumper crop of new 'terrorists'.

Yep.  It gives you a warm feeling all over to know that we're spending billions of dollars on running a nation-sized terrorist training camp.  Ah, but not to worry.  *These* terrorists won't get WMDs.  We know, because apparently there's not a gram of WMD anywhere in Iraq.  And besides, A.G. Khan has been brought to justice, and is now requiring proof of identity and a major credit card before shipping you the Nuclear Weapons Program in a Box set, and North Korea is too busy stockpiling nukes and missiles for an upcoming "negotiated settlement to certain border questions" to sell any of them to any (other) crazies.  Why the only other place where there's a risk of nuclear proliferation is in the old Soviet Union--and we all know *they* don't have any Islamic fundamentalist terrorists running about.  So we can clearly rest easy.  

It's a good thing we've got an administration in the White House who cares about security and the war on terror.  Otherwise, I'd be a mite worried about now....

...
>-TD

--John Kelsey




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 15 12:14:33 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:14:33 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>

    --
> >My profile is radically different from all those who killed 
> >nearly 3,000 of my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My 
> >"holy book" of choice is the Bible. My race is Caucasian. I 
> >am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating, 
> >English-as-first-language, natural-born American. If 
> >profiling were allowed, I wouldn't be the one filling out 
> >government forms to prove I'm not a terrorist. The other 
> >guys would.

On 15 Oct 2004 at 10:02, Tyler Durden wrote:
> I'm thinking that the state-of-the-art on Cypherpunks is such 
> that no real comment here is necessary.

Has anyone who does not look a terrorist done a suicide mission 
outside Israel or Russia? Recall the shoe bomber.   You just
had to look at him. You would think the airport screeners would
need to be half brain dead to let him on the plane.  Come to
think of it, they are half brain dead, but laws that require
them to pretend to be stupider than they actually are do not
help.

> This is precisely why Al-Qaeda sent 19 (or probably more) 
> true-believers. Even if TSA lowers the odds, all you have to 
> do is roll the dice many more times, and a few of the 
> faithful will definitely get through the checkpoint.

Just don't let anyone who looks like the shoe bomber fly. 
Problem solved.  A restaurant should be able to turn away those 
whose looks they do not like, and an airline likewise.

There are probably a few innocents in Guantenamo, but they 
released at least one Al Quaeda terrorist who promptly got back 
in business murdering large numbers of people, and was caught 
doing it - so presumably they have released lots of others who 
have committed lots of murders, and not been caught doing it.

Anyone who was non Afghan and in Afghanistan in the middle of 
the war without a good explanation should have been executed by 
the Northern Alliance or imprisoned permanently in Guatenamo.

Yes, I do support internment, as wartime measure, during real 
war, against an ethnically based enemy. Similarly I support 
shelling enemies who surround themselves with captive women and 
children, as Sadr did in Najaf.   That hostage crisis was ended 
by negotiation, but because the administration were reluctant 
to shell the mosque, the deal was settled on very unfavorable 
terms. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     wI0xr9ayXv/a3zae3P/aa8cP2yCVMsnUHEQvlSZ4
     4biccsub2YZowuf9Kq6OzR5YpJQrEGdamGR4hGonc




From dgerow at afflictions.org  Fri Oct 15 12:32:56 2004
From: dgerow at afflictions.org (Damian Gerow)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:32:56 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
References: <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com>
  <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>

Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd at echeque.com) [15/10/04 15:19]:
: Has anyone who does not look a terrorist done a suicide mission 
: outside Israel or Russia? Recall the shoe bomber.   You just
: had to look at him. You would think the airport screeners would
: need to be half brain dead to let him on the plane.  Come to
: think of it, they are half brain dead, but laws that require
: them to pretend to be stupider than they actually are do not
: help.

I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount to basically:
"You look like you've just left a terrorist training camp."  For whatever
reason, pictures of me always come out looking like some crazed religious
fanatic.  But that doesn't mean that I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure
hope that I'm not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I
*look*, alone.




From jya at pipeline.com  Fri Oct 15 15:55:49 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:55:49 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>
References: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost> 
  <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com> 
  <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
Message-ID: <E1CIYFF-0003z7-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Most of the Boston Red Sox team look as if they have just
come from a terrorist training camp for blind, handless barbers, 
decked-out in ill-fitting sports gear, staring wild-eyed at 
RPGs being fired at their heads and nuts, swinging clubs futilely 
at the inerrant missiles, their ass-wipe paws swollen into giant 
shit-covered patties, muttering homicidal jihads against devil-bred 
yankees.




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 15 13:17:08 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:17:08 -0400
Subject: Human Lie Detectors Almost Never Miss, Study Finds
Message-ID: <p061104cdbd95e0b384aa@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.reuters.co.uk/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6506170>
  



Human Lie Detectors Almost Never Miss, Study Finds
 Thu October 14, 2004 05:18 PM ET

 By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - As he lies, the young man shrugs, flutters his
eyelids and shakes his head. Another, on a witness stand, grimaces for a
millisecond as he answers a question.

 Most people believe they could easily detect such lying behavior, but in
fact most miss a good 50 percent of lies, says deception expert Maureen
O'Sullivan of the University of California San Francisco.

 But O'Sullivan says she has found a special group -- just 1 percent of
those she has tested -- who catch a lie nearly 90 percent of the time.

 "We call them wizards," O'Sullivan told a briefing sponsored by the
American Medical Association on Thursday. "Wizardry is a special skill that
seems magical if you don't have it."

 These wizards have a special ability to ferret out little tics that show
when a person is lying.

 She and her colleagues have so far screened 13,000 people for their
ability to catch a liar on videotape. "We found 14 people who we called
ultimate experts," she said.

 They could tell when people deliberately lied about feelings, committing a
crime or their own opinions.

 Another 13 were good at detecting specific types of lies. For example, she
said, "There was a group of cops who got very good scores -- they got 80
percent or more on crime but none of them did well on the video about
feeling."

 Now O'Sullivan is trying to find out how they do it. She finds they have
little in common so far, except a motivation to catch liars. Some have
advanced degrees, some only a high school education. About 20 percent had
alcoholic parents.

 "They are located all over the country. We sit down and go over the ...
videotapes. I ask them to think aloud. I tape record them thinking aloud,"
she said.

 While most people know to look for certain cues as a person lies, these
wizards intuitively find an individual's peculiar cues. One may shrug when
lying, and another may make fleeting expressions of disgust or even
amusement.

 "There are lots of clues. The problem is how do you put them together and
how to you make any sense of them?"

 O'Sullivan said her findings could help train better lie detectors -- for
instance, federal agents or therapists who need to know when someone is
telling the truth.

 She is not sure about other real-world applications.

 "We have made an offer to the federal government that it might be
interesting to have them as sort of panel when they have high profile
investigations," she said.

 What about analyzing the presidential debates between President Bush and
his Democratic challenger, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry?

 O'Sullivan just laughed.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 15 13:19:27 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:19:27 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <E1CIYFF-0003z7-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>   
  <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com>   
  <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost> 
  <E1CIYFF-0003z7-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p061104d0bd95e136a35b@[66.149.49.5]>

At 3:55 PM -0700 10/15/04, John Young wrote:
>Most of the Boston Red Sox team look as if they have just
>come from a terrorist training camp for blind, handless barbers,
>decked-out in ill-fitting sports gear, staring wild-eyed at
>RPGs being fired at their heads and nuts, swinging clubs futilely
>at the inerrant missiles, their ass-wipe paws swollen into giant
>shit-covered patties, muttering homicidal jihads against devil-bred
>yankees.

Yeah, but just wait until next year...

;-)

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 15 13:32:37 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:32:37 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F35rOc0Ne0PaL00000a5e@hotmail.com>

OK, Mr Donald...you're shittin' me, right?

>Has anyone who does not look a terrorist done a suicide mission
>outside Israel or Russia?

If you define a suicide mission a priori as the act of a terrorist (I guess 
I do), then by definition anyone who performs such an act is a terrorist. 
Therefore, anyone who performs a suicide mission looks like a terrorist. 
Guess it's simple, then eh?

>Recall the shoe bomber.   You just
>had to look at him.

Yer trollin me, I just know it! YAAGH but I can't help myself...I gotta 
respond! I guess it's OK then if we don't allow strange looking people on 
the planes. Come to think of it, I think YOU look like a terrorist...

>You would think the airport screeners would
>need to be half brain dead to let him on the plane.  Come to
>think of it, they are half brain dead, but laws that require
>them to pretend to be stupider than they actually are do not
>help.

OK, so you not only want to stop anybody odd looking from getting on an 
airplane, you want near-welfare, minimum-wage HS dropouts be responsible for 
determining what "odd" means?


>Just don't let anyone who looks like the shoe bomber fly.
>Problem solved.

Huh? The one flaw in this logic is that this only works if you can send this 
particular definition of suspicious "looks" backwards in time. The 
shoe-bomber is a particularly interesting case, as I believe the dude was 
ethnically British. He might have looked odd from the photo you saw 
circulated in the press, but I'd bet a lot of money no one would have picked 
him as looking like a terrorist. However, since we now know about what the 
shoe-bomber looks like, it should be relatively easy to stop his genetic 
clones or identical twins from boarding planes in the future. "Problem 
Solved" indeed. However, this might not work against people that DON'T look 
like the shoe-bomber.

>
>There are probably a few innocents in Guantenamo, but they
>released at least one Al Quaeda terrorist who promptly got back
>in business murdering large numbers of people, and was caught
>doing it - so presumably they have released lots of others who
>have committed lots of murders, and not been caught doing it.

Hum. An interesting, Stalinist logic. Well, Stalin was on a certain level 
immensely practical. I say we build a big electrified fence around Cobble 
Hill Brooklyn and fuck 'em...SOMEONE in there is definitely Al-Qaeda, 
therefore let's assume everyone in there's guilty until proven innocent.

>Anyone who was non Afghan and in Afghanistan in the middle of
>the war without a good explanation should have been executed by
>the Northern Alliance or imprisoned permanently in Guatenamo.

So likewise would you agree that if any non-citizen US soldiers (there are 
10s of thousands non-citizen soldiers in the US) are captured in the 
numerous future wars, then they captors have the right to execute them on 
the spot? Uhm...no Geneva convention or anything? What the hell, it's a 
free-for-all anyway!


>Yes, I do support internment, as wartime measure, during real
>war, against an ethnically based enemy.

Wow. Since Iranians are Indo-European (ie, white), then in the event of war 
with Iran would you advocate rounding up all Americans of Indo-European 
ancestry? Does this have to be "pure", or should we grab the African 
Americans too (which have large % of Indo-European genes)?

Oh wait, most of the Afghans are Indo-Europeans too. So if you're arrested 
then you'll certainly understand that we're really just protecting the US 
from your possible collusion with your relatives in Afghanistan...

What seems to be clear to me is that you believe that your opinions 
originate from some self-consistent logical framework that is "unpopular" in 
some quarters. What also seems clear to me that it's really an inconsistent 
hodgepodge thrown up around the real goal, American domination at all costs, 
damn the logic and damn the consequences.

-TD



>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      wI0xr9ayXv/a3zae3P/aa8cP2yCVMsnUHEQvlSZ4
>      4biccsub2YZowuf9Kq6OzR5YpJQrEGdamGR4hGonc

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Thu Oct 14 23:59:53 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:59:53 +1300
Subject: Cash, Credit -- or Prints?
In-Reply-To: <20041013083830.GC8532@apb-laptoy.apb.alt.za>
Message-ID: <E1CIM49-0005R0-00@medusa01>

Alan Barrett <apb at cequrux.com> writes:

>On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, John Kelsey wrote:
>>but there doesn't seem to be a clean process for determining how
>>skilled an attacker needs to be to, say, scan my finger once, and
>>produce either a fake finger or a machine for projecting a fake
>>fingerprint into the reader.
>
>... or a replacement reader that fakes the signals to the rest of the
>security system.

I've seen a number of smart card/PCMCIA combo devices that to this, they have
a discrete fingerprint sensor device connected to a discrete crypto device.
You can fake out the fingerprint check portion by tying one of the connecting
lines to Vcc or GND.

Peter.




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Fri Oct 15 01:13:46 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:13:46 +1300
Subject: At least there's some (attempt at) common sense in airline
  security
Message-ID: <E1CINDe-0005V3-00@medusa01>

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3600794&thesection=news&thesubsection=general

Ease off says air security boss
15.10.2004

Security on domestic flights is too strict and should be downgraded, says the
head of the Aviation Security Service.

General manager Mark Everitt, a former police detective with 21 years'
experience, said if he had his way passengers would be able to take Swiss Army
knives and other small, sharp objects on board domestic flights.

"I'm actually an advocate for letting these things back on the aircraft. It's
time to back up a little," he told delegates at the Police Association's
annual conference yesterday.

But New Zealand had to meet international security standards and his personal
view was not enough to instigate a review of security standards.

Knowing levels of risk was the key to ensuring flights were safe, said Mr
Everitt. The banning of small knives did not stop attacks in the air.

[...]




From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Fri Oct 15 01:21:56 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:21:56 +1300
Subject: Vote-counting glitch in NZ local elections
Message-ID: <E1CINLY-0005VN-00@medusa01>

Looks like you can mess up voting even if there is a paper trail.  These are
paper votes that are electronically counted, so the problem was in the
electronic processing, not the actual voting procedure.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3600391&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&thesecondsubsection=&reportid=1162640

Let me count the ways ...
14.10.2004

[...]

An electronic processing and counting botch-up has left the results for seven
city and district councils and 18 district health boards up in the air. Final
results, due yesterday, have been delayed indefinitely.

Mr Carter blamed the company Datamail, which was contracted by Electionz.com -
the company hired by many councils to manage their elections - to count the
votes from electronically scanned voting papers.

[...]

Peter.




From mv at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 15 21:43:42 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:43:42 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <4170A6FE.403C8BF7@cdc.gov>

At 12:14 PM 10/15/04 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>    --
>> >My profile is radically different from all those who killed
>> >nearly 3,000 of my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My
>> >"holy book" of choice is the Bible. My race is Caucasian. I
>> >am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
>> >English-as-first-language, natural-born American.

As was Timmy McV, Zeus rest his soul.

Got ANFO?




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Fri Oct 15 17:01:22 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:01:22 +0100
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>
References: <BAY24-F14zsVA2aiVkl0002a49b@hotmail.com> 
  <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
  <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>
Message-ID: <417064D2.8070601@gmx.co.uk>

Damian Gerow wrote:
> I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount to basically:
> "You look like you've just left a terrorist training camp."  For whatever
> reason, pictures of me always come out looking like some crazed religious
> fanatic.  But that doesn't mean that I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure
> hope that I'm not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I
> *look*, alone.
No, of course not. even if you had a turban, carried a koran and your 
briefcase made a suspicious ticking noise, that would be *profiling* and 
therefore bad.

Now, if your name happened to sound like someone who doesn't look like 
you, but a FBI agent had once misheard in passing... that would get you 
detained.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 16 11:27:19 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 11:27:19 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>
References: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
Message-ID: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Has anyone who does not look a terrorist done a suicide 
> > mission outside Israel or Russia? Recall the shoe bomber. 
> > You just had to look at him. You would think the airport 
> > screeners would need to be half brain dead to let him on 
> > the plane.  Come to think of it, they are half brain dead, 
> > but laws that require them to pretend to be stupider than 
> > they actually are do not help.

Damian Gerow
> I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount 
> to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist 
> training camp."

Nonetheless you can probably start fiddling with your shoes on 
a plane without the passengers seated near you jumping you.

> For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking 
> like some crazed religious fanatic.  But that doesn't mean 
> that I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure hope that I'm 
> not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I 
> *look*, alone.

If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have 
to drive, or use public transport.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     OSAEtsROBjQx7D9gY/VOYIR6gP2XT4W4uGtNsB+l
     4IvEFcdiZu/zuBnyVhVYTnXbtIfk7mIE7YK5jQFN7




From dgerow at afflictions.org  Sat Oct 16 11:41:15 2004
From: dgerow at afflictions.org (Damian Gerow)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:41:15 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
References: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost>
  <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041016184115.GN26676@afflictions.org>

Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd at echeque.com) [16/10/04 14:33]:
: > I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount 
: > to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist 
: > training camp."
: 
: Nonetheless you can probably start fiddling with your shoes on 
: a plane without the passengers seated near you jumping you.

Perhaps, I don't know.  But we're not talking about the other passengers,
we're talking about screening based on looks, no?

: > For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking 
: > like some crazed religious fanatic.  But that doesn't mean 
: > that I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure hope that I'm 
: > not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I 
: > *look*, alone.
: 
: If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have 
: to drive, or use public transport.

So by that rationale, every Arab should have to drive or use public
transport?  Oh, and every white American (recall numerous references to Mr.
McVeigh), too.  Shit, by that rationale, the only people allowed left to fly
will be cats and dogs.

Just not pit bulls.




From steve49152 at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct 16 12:21:20 2004
From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:21:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041015193255.GC26676@afflictions.org>
Message-ID: <20041016192120.35835.qmail@web51809.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- Damian Gerow <dgerow at afflictions.org> wrote: 
> Thus spake James A. Donald (jamesd at echeque.com)
> [15/10/04 15:19]:
>>[laws making stupidity mandatory for gov't
officials]
> 
> I've had more than one comment about my ID photos
that amount to basically: "You look like you've just
left a terrorist training camp."  For whatever reason,
pictures of me always come out looking like some
crazed religious  fanatic.  But that doesn't mean that
I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure hope that I'm
not going to be detained or denied entry because of
how I *look*, alone.

Way back when phrenology was all the rage they did not
have terrorists.  Since it is evidently vital to the
security of the state for its officials to have the
capability of committing arbitrary civil rights
violations, I can see a need for the resurrection of
phrenology, suitably updated, as a screening tool. 
The shape of your head; the cadence of your gait; the
way your eyes shift according to carefully structured
stimulae, and of course your spending patterns -- all
these things will help the cause of profiling.

Remember: petty inconveniences that make travel on
average less pleasant and more onerous are not at all
intended to facilitate tightened centralised control
of civilian life.  That it may actually do so is an
unintended side-effect.

As for me, I have resigned myself to the current
lamentable state of world affairs.  Until the world's
policeman finishes flushing the terrorists out into
the open for the purpose of apprehension, we will all
have to make sacrifices for the greater good.


Regards,

Steve


______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca




From steve49152 at yahoo.ca  Sat Oct 16 12:36:25 2004
From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:36:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <E1CIYFF-0003z7-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20041016193625.51777.qmail@web51802.mail.yahoo.com>

 --- John Young <jya at pipeline.com> wrote: 
> Most of the Boston Red Sox team look as if they have
> just
> come from a terrorist training camp for blind,
> handless barbers, 
> decked-out in ill-fitting sports gear, staring
> wild-eyed at 
> RPGs being fired at their heads and nuts, swinging
> clubs futilely 
> at the inerrant missiles, their ass-wipe paws
> swollen into giant 
> shit-covered patties, muttering homicidal jihads
> against devil-bred 
> yankees.

Our Maple Leafs' hockey team might look similarly if
it weren't for the lockout.  As it is, all of our
players are well-fed and well-rested (if a little
restless, ha ha ha).  I imagine they have no trouble
whatsoever convincing airport security of their
benignity when they flit about on their vactions.

We might as well face it.  Whether one is designated
as  resembling a terrorist or not, according to
security screeners, is really a matter of random
happenstance in many cases.  Did you purchase a 12ga
Remington Defender  sometime in the last twenty years?
 No?  Well then please step onboard.  Yes?  Oh, well
you're going to have to wait while we send your thong
to the lab for analysis, Mr. Alleged, just to check
for accelerant or explosives residue.

Net result?  Just one more obstacle on the highway of
life.  Ho hum.


Regards,

Steve



______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 16 16:01:47 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:01:47 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4170A6FE.403C8BF7@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <417145EB.4301.10A2D4D@localhost>

    --

> > > > My profile is radically different from all those who 
> > > > killed nearly 3,000 of my countrymen on September 11, 
> > > > 2001. My "holy book" of choice is the Bible. My race is 
> > > > Caucasian. I am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, 
> > > > evil-hating, English-as-first-language, natural-born 
> > > > American.

On 15 Oct 2004 at 21:43, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> As was Timmy McV, Zeus rest his soul.

Tim McVeigh did not target innocents, nor was he a suicide 
bomber.

Nor, incidentally, was he a fundamentalist or a racist. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     i/wi0GDzGBP3KiIep9bir5YTYPAboMCPrhTWaYVr
     4eGGeI7f9F42sygpTIyTsY7S6kmUE63duxZ5yn0Nf




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 16 16:01:49 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:01:49 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F35rOc0Ne0PaL00000a5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417145ED.15338.10A32DB@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Just don't let anyone who looks like the shoe bomber fly. 
> > Problem solved.

On 15 Oct 2004 at 16:32, Tyler Durden wrote:
> Huh? The one flaw in this logic is that this only works if
> you can send this particular definition of suspicious "looks"
> backwards in time. The shoe-bomber is a particularly
> interesting case, as I believe the dude was ethnically
> British.

The passengers who jumped him, however, were looking forwards
in time.

Suicide bombers seldom look, or act, like normal people.  You
might think a suicide bomber is the ultimate guided missile,
but the Palestinian experience is that they are more like
unguided missiles, or dumb bombs.  The handler accompanies the
suicide as close to the target as he dares, then activates the
suicide's control, hoping they do not explode on the spot.

> He might have looked odd from the photo you saw circulated in
> the press, but I'd bet a lot of money no one would have
> picked him as looking like a terrorist.

But the people sitting beside him did pick him as looking like
a terrorist.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     z1bJgk/rjP4UAOrP7RtOBaH6cZp3IPBz72kegLH0
     4Swd9FlAVwnfuYyk6bFcKfWrQDQDVgIGBVWN+86wq




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 16 16:22:08 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:22:08 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041016184115.GN26676@afflictions.org>
References: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
Message-ID: <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>

    --
Damian Gerow
> > > I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that 
> > > amount to basically: "You look like you've just left a 
> > > terrorist training camp."

James A. Donald:
> > Nonetheless you can probably start fiddling with your shoes 
> > on a plane without the passengers seated near you jumping 
> > you.

Damian Gerow
> Perhaps, I don't know.  But we're not talking about the other 
> passengers, we're talking about screening based on looks, no?

When the other passengers jumped the shoe bomber, they were 
screening based on looks.

> So by that rationale, every Arab should have to drive?

Every young male Arab past puberty, with a few exceptions for 
special cases.

> Oh, and every white American (recall numerous references to 
> Mr. McVeigh)

Mc Veigh did not target innocents, and if he did target a plane 
full of innocents, perhaps in order to kill one guilty man on 
board, there is no way in hell he himself would be on that 
plane. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     SctyT6AMk6jzONQcbBrn1oGEBCejpOtCC/nsGPQk
     4z3Lf7lP4Ga/hyRqICf9o0gSKTkO+1Sl3szjRgoxV




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Sat Oct 16 16:08:23 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 16 Oct 2004 19:08:23 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4170A6FE.403C8BF7@cdc.gov>
References: <4170A6FE.403C8BF7@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <1097968103.9223.0.camel@daft>

On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 00:43, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> At 12:14 PM 10/15/04 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> >    --
> >> >My profile is radically different from all those who killed
> >> >nearly 3,000 of my countrymen on September 11, 2001. My
> >> >"holy book" of choice is the Bible. My race is Caucasian. I
> >> >am a loyal, taxpaying, patriotic, evil-hating,
> >> >English-as-first-language, natural-born American.
> 
> As was Timmy McV, Zeus rest his soul.

The unidentified John Doe #2 looked awfully Arabic, though.




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 16 16:37:40 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:37:40 -0400
Subject: Google Desktop privacy branded 'unacceptable'
Message-ID: <p0611046fbd97601360eb@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/15/google_desktop_privacy/print.html>

The Register

Biting the hand that feeds IT


Google Desktop privacy branded 'unacceptable'
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco (andrew.orlowski at theregister.co.uk)
Published Friday 15th October 2004 22:47 GMT

Google's Desktop represents a privacy disaster just waiting to happen, a
rival has warned. David Burns, Copernic CEO, says users should know that
the giant ad broker intends to mix public and private queries in the
future, leveraging its key moneyspinning product: contextual advertising.

"If you lined people and said, 'Stick your hand up if you want Google to
know what pictures you have, and what MP3 files you have,' I don't think
many would." Burns had offered these capabilities to partners before, but
received some pushback.

"Major brands don't want to compromise their reputation. We've offered this
in the past to potential partners, and had a major PC hardware company and
major portals say 'No, we can't do this'", Burns told us.

With the subpoena-happy RIAA getting support from state law enforcement in
its war on copyright infringers, Google represents a single point of
compromise for millions of file traders.

Copernic offers a native Windows search application both as a free download
and as a branded offering to partners, and has toyed with merging the two
before. But it's realized personal archives are very different to Google's
snapshot of the web - and the queries are different too.

"I don't deny desktop and web on the same page is attractive," he added.
"But we're not going to do it."

Burns was former US chief of FAST, which created the All The Web search
site before selling it to Overture. Yahoo! now owns both.

Google Desktop Search allows users to opt out of sending the company back
detailed usage data, but it isn't possible to firewall it completely. Much
more ominously, reckons Burns, Google's product manager Marissa Mayer said
she expected the private queries to generate more hits for google.com. Most
people, she believed, would choose to combine personal and web searches
resulting in more revenue for Google's ad business.

"As a result, we will serve more Web results pages and more ads, and those
ads have more chances of getting clicked on. So there will be incremental
Web search revenue from this product," she told the Washington Post.

In January, Eric Schmidt said the company's goal was to create a "Google
that knows you". With the addition of personal information, it's just taken
a giant step towards that goal.
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm  Sat Oct 16 16:42:34 2004
From: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm (Adam)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:42:34 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417145EB.4301.10A2D4D@localhost>
References: <417145EB.4301.10A2D4D@localhost>
Message-ID: <1097970154.24148.206617768@webmail.messagingengine.com>

First of all, there were 19 children killed in the OKC bombing. Were
these children guilty of some crime worthy of being killed by a truck
bomb?

Second of all, you make it sound like McVeigh was just your average-Joe
American. How could a non-fundamentalist knowingly kill 168 people? 

Third, does not being a suicide bomber make your cause more noble?

Curious why you seem to think McVeigh was justified in his actions. 

-Adam

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:01:47 -0700, "James A. Donald"
> Tim McVeigh did not target innocents, nor was he a suicide 
> bomber.
> 
> Nor, incidentally, was he a fundamentalist or a racist. 
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald




From sunder at sunder.net  Sat Oct 16 19:12:52 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:12:52 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
References: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
  <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410162211200.3251@silkworth.sunder.net>

There is still of course the matter of the unexploded bombs in that 
building that were dug out, and that the ATF received a "Don't come in to 
work" page on their beepers, and the seize and classification of all 
surveilance video tapes from things like ATM's across the street.


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> Mc Veigh did not target innocents, and if he did target a plane 
> full of innocents, perhaps in order to kill one guilty man on 
> board, there is no way in hell he himself would be on that 
> plane. 




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 17 00:03:49 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:03:49 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <1097970154.24148.206617768@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <417145EB.4301.10A2D4D@localhost>
Message-ID: <4171B6E5.10686.2C37DF9@localhost>

    --
On 16 Oct 2004 at 19:42, Adam wrote:
> First of all, there were 19 children killed in the OKC 
> bombing. Were these children guilty of some crime worthy of 
> being killed by a truck bomb?

He was not targeting children.

> Second of all, you make it sound like McVeigh was just your 
> average-Joe American. How could a non-fundamentalist 
> knowingly kill 168 people?

Osama Bin Laden is not a fundamentalist, yet he killed three 
thousand people.  His religion is more like the Muslim
equivalent of liberation theology, which is as far from
fundamentalism as you can get.

> Third, does not being a suicide bomber make your cause more 
> noble?

Not being a suicide bomber means there is no need to screen you 
from flying on planes.

> Curious why you seem to think McVeigh was justified in his 
> actions.

BATF. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     jn1FZy8NQFwnLH6A/ePT+CTiAROr7+lergg2poqX
     44kTUpiFNIutpZGh02oJsBCI9pZVnZ/MDSF8OJEsG




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 17 00:13:55 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:13:55 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410170215420.0@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
Message-ID: <4171B943.16994.2CCBB21@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > > > If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you 
> > > > should have to drive, or use public transport.

Thomas Shaddack
> Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?

Hard biscuit

> Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?

They do.

> This is a measure good for pissing off (which is often the 
> first step to radicalizing) the quite secularized majority of 
> American Arabs.

The proposition that we need to walk delicately for fear of 
disturbing the tender sensibilities of arabs seems laughable. 
Are the arabs walking delicately to avoid offending our 
sensibilities?

> You also seem to forget there is another potential factor - 
> not only the visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't 
> obvious to visual evaluation - religion. There is a 
> significant black minority that inclines to Islam, some of 
> them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning 
> blacks from flying too?

Seen any black suicide bombers?   Black Muslim radicalism tends 
to express itself by mugging Jews and stealing television sets.
Strapping dynamite to one's chest just does not seem to be a
black thing. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     uLiSKEXFvsVnqDyPsqAGijbT0mXs6uHpYOBtYg/0
     4Q3Bb6ObO9F9G9008I8Z1Au4iNO8XH/JLmEyqrcqP




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Oct 17 00:50:58 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:50:58 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4171B6E5.10686.2C37DF9@localhost>
References: <417145EB.4301.10A2D4D@localhost> 
  <4171B6E5.10686.2C37DF9@localhost>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041017001606.037cd390@pop.idiom.com>

At 12:03 AM 10/17/2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>On 16 Oct 2004 at 19:42, Adam wrote: [...]
> > Second of all, you make it sound like McVeigh was just your
> > average-Joe American. How could a non-fundamentalist
> > knowingly kill 168 people?

Fundamentalism doesn't make people kill people.
Being pissed off does.  Being scared does.
Believing that those people are a threat to a Higher Cause
you Believe In does, whether it's religion, country, family, etc.
Wanting other people's stuff does.
Failing to believe that other people matter does
if they happen to be in your way.
Failing to believe that other people matter does
if it looks like it'll help you get what you want.
Being stupid might not directly make people kill people,
but it can affect whether you think the other conditions apply
and/or who you kill if you're going to kill people.

Some of those things make you willing to die in the process
of killing the people you want killed, and some don't,
though there's the intermediate case of being willing to have
people on Your Side get killed as long as it's not you.

McVeigh was pissed off, and he believed that the Feds
as a whole were a threat to America, so he decided to kill
Feds who were an easy target, as opposed to, say,
raiding a well-armed BATF headquarters.
The kids in the next buildings were just collateral damage.

Bush, on the other hand, doesn't believe other people matter,
and getting US soldiers killed or Iraqi children killed
or lying to the American public about them being Safer is fine,
though Saddam trying to kill his Daddy really pissed him off,
and war is the health of the state, which is him and his buddies.

> > Third, does not being a suicide bomber make your cause more noble?
>
>Not being a suicide bomber means there is no need to screen you
>from flying on planes.

You really don't want Carlos the Jackal on your flight.
Non-suicidal airplane bombers might bring a bomb onto a plane
and hide it under the seat so it'll blow up on the next flight,
or hide it inside somebody else's luggage so it'll blow up on
_their_ next flight, or whatever.  And they've usually done
more thinking about how to get away with it, though they're
trying to solve a much harder problem than suicide bombers are.

James Bamford's latest book "A Pretext for War"
is mainly about the Bush Administration's willingness
to use 9/11 as an excuse for the war they wanted even before
they got into office, but he spends a while excoriating the CIA
for being a bunch of bleeding incompetents.
The CIA spent a while trying to chase and kill bin Laden,
while constantly losing track of most of his organizations,
but they didn't ever try infiltrating Al Qaeda, because they
thought it would be too difficult to pass off their infiltrators
as credible due to cultural differences.
Yet Johnny Walker Lindh and Richard Shoebomber Reid
didn't much trouble joining them.  Bamford apparently
believes that Reid was the genuine article, though Reid sure
looks like the ideal guy you'd use if you wanted to
scare the public by planting an unsuccessful crazy bomber wannabee.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Sat Oct 16 17:27:00 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 02:27:00 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
References: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
  <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410170215420.0@somehost.domainz.com>

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> > > If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have to 
> > > drive, or use public transport.

Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?
Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?

> > So by that rationale, every Arab should have to drive?
> 
> Every young male Arab past puberty, with a few exceptions for 
> special cases.

This is a measure good for pissing off (which is often the first step to 
radicalizing) the quite secularized majority of American Arabs.

You also seem to forget there is another potential factor - not only the 
visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't obvious to visual 
evaluation - religion. There is a significant black minority that inclines 
to Islam, some of them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning 
blacks from flying too? If so, what reaction are you expecting to get?




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 17 06:31:12 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:31:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <10795261.1098019872641.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Sent: Oct 16, 2004 7:22 PM
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity

...
>> Oh, and every white American (recall numerous references to 
>> Mr. McVeigh)

>Mc Veigh did not target innocents, and if he did target a plane 
>full of innocents, perhaps in order to kill one guilty man on 
>board, there is no way in hell he himself would be on that 
>plane. 

Well, he targeted a building full of innocents, so he could get some BATF people in one part of the building, right?  I guess I'm missing the part where he took especial care not to blow up people who had no connection with the Waco disaster.  How would you differentiate his target selection from that of the 9/11 attackers who hit the Pentagon?

Though you're right, he didn't do the suicide bomber thing.  Does that constitute a guarantee that no white terrorist ever will do so?  (After all, an awful lot of Arab terrorists also plan on living to fight another day.)  

>   --digsig
>         James A. Donald

--John




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 17 06:36:16 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:36:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <16288411.1098020177358.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Sent: Oct 16, 2004 2:27 PM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity

>> For whatever reason, pictures of me always come out looking 
>> like some crazed religious fanatic.  But that doesn't mean 
>> that I'm going to bomb anything.  And I sure hope that I'm 
>> not going to be detained or denied entry because of how I 
>> *look*, alone.

>If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have 
>to drive, or use public transport.

>    --digsig
>         James A. Donald

Surely this is a matter best left to the private companies offering transportation, subject only to restrictions to prevent future 9/11 attacks.  

--John




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 17 06:43:37 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:43:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <9063289.1098020617716.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Sent: Oct 16, 2004 7:01 PM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: RE: Airport insanity

...
>On 15 Oct 2004 at 16:32, Tyler Durden wrote:


...
>> He might have looked odd from the photo you saw circulated in
>> the press, but I'd bet a lot of money no one would have
>> picked him as looking like a terrorist.

>But the people sitting beside him did pick him as looking like
>a terrorist.

What's the false positive rate?  It's one thing if you see some guy lighting a fuse sticking out of his shoe, and quite another if you say "You look kinda terroristy; I'm sending you off the plane."  This works as a reasonable strategy only if:

a.  The probability ratios don't work out so that the overwhelming majority of people you throw off planes are innocent.  (They almost certainly will, just because terrorists are so rare.)

b.  The terrorists can't figure out how to make themselves look less threatening.  

>    --digsig
>         James A. Donald

--John




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct 17 10:47:40 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:47:40 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <4172B03C.269E5910@cdc.gov>

At 04:01 PM 10/16/04 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>Tim McVeigh did not target innocents, nor was he a suicide
>bomber.

Neither did M. Atta et al. target innocents, he targeted those who
elected the Caesars.  And they were not pursuing suicide (a
Moslem sin), since they are enjoying a comfy afterlife for
their martyrdom.

>Nor, incidentally, was he a fundamentalist or a racist.

Neither is Osama et al.; only infidels call him a fundie, and
the Jihadists have no problem with lighter or asian folks who subscribe.

In fact, they can be quite useful, as they don't fit the rascist
profiling
that the TSA goons practice...




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct 17 10:50:17 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:50:17 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <4172B0D9.A5B57390@cdc.gov>

At 07:42 PM 10/16/04 -0400, Adam wrote:
>First of all, there were 19 children killed in the OKC bombing. Were
>these children guilty of some crime worthy of being killed by a truck
>bomb?

They were being used as human shields by the fedcriminals in the
building.  They were collateral damage, in the modern parlance.
Ask the Iraqis to explain it to you.

>Second of all, you make it sound like McVeigh was just your average-Joe

>American. How could a non-fundamentalist knowingly kill 168 people?

He was a retired US soldier, carrying out his mission to protect the
Constitution.




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 17 11:39:11 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:39:11 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity.."Ethnicity" is Bullshit
Message-ID: <BAY24-F13USp3sJWGYd00022c73@hotmail.com>

> > > You also seem to forget there is another potential factor -
> > > not only the visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't
> > > obvious to visual evaluation - religion. There is a
> > > significant black minority that inclines to Islam, some of
> > > them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning
> > > blacks from flying too?
> >
> > Seen any black suicide bombers?

OK, let's just say it outright. In this case "Ethnicity" is just pure 
camaflauge for "People who don't agree with my right-wing American Century 
politics". Just to remind us of the basics:

Afghans and Iranians are not Arabs.
Sub-saharan Africa has tens of millions of fully black Muslims.
Arabs are Semites.


> > Black Muslim radicalism tends to express itself by mugging Jews and
> > stealing television sets. Strapping dynamite to one's chest just does
> > not seem to be a black thing.

Uh...what? If you're talking about the Nation of Islam (in the US), you 
almost NEVER find members in good standing "mugging Jews or stealing TV" 
sets here in New York, and any other location is going to be a statistical 
blip.

Let's also remember that we don't have US-backed/paid-for tanks rolling 
through black neighborhoods every day. If we did I suspect Black Muslims 
might start fighting back.

Let's just state the obvious: September 11th occurred not because we had a 
few "crazy Muslim fundamentalists" out there that decided they "hate our 
freedoms". The struck us because we've been fuckin' over a large swath of 
the Muslim (not only Arab) world for 100 years or so now. They're tired of 
us being there and muckin' around in their politics, and they want it to 
stop. The "fundamentalist" part is sort of a 'strengthener', let's 
say...here's people who know they're probably going to have to kill large 
numbers of civilians to get their point across, so how can they justify 
this? Well, a nicely-tuned Wahabism will do just nicely thank you. Seems 
fairly predictable, really.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
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From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Sun Oct 17 07:33:42 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:33:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4171B943.16994.2CCBB21@localhost>
References: <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
  <4171B943.16994.2CCBB21@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410171543290.0@somehost.domainz.com>

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> 
>     --
> James A. Donald:
> > > > > If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you 
> > > > > should have to drive, or use public transport.
> 
> Thomas Shaddack
> > Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?
> 
> Hard biscuit

Do I interpret this statement correctly as the endorsement of 
ethnicity-based travel restrictions?

Didn't domething like this been here already, in the form of Jim Crow 
laws, and later found unconstitutional?

> > Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?
> 
> They do.

I am afraid either I don't understand you correctly, or you are 
contradicting yourself. The "...or use public transport" from your earlier 
statement seems to mean that you said something along the lines "if they 
can't fly, they should use public transportation, which includes 
airplanes".

> > This is a measure good for pissing off (which is often the 
> > first step to radicalizing) the quite secularized majority of 
> > American Arabs.
> 
> The proposition that we need to walk delicately for fear of 
> disturbing the tender sensibilities of arabs seems laughable. 

Being told I can't use some quite common resource, in this case an 
important means of transportation, because of so irrelevant factor as 
ethnicity, isn't exactly delicate. What would you do if you'd be in the 
receiving end of such policy? Add more such restrictions and some 
percolating time - would you just bow and obey? How long it would take to 
get you pissed and eventually revolting?

> Are the arabs walking delicately to avoid offending our 
> sensibilities?

Vast majority of them yes. But you don't perceive them because they don't 
offend you and don't make the news.

> > You also seem to forget there is another potential factor - 
> > not only the visible one (ethnicity), but also one that isn't 
> > obvious to visual evaluation - religion. There is a 
> > significant black minority that inclines to Islam, some of 
> > them potentially radical. Do you want to suggest banning 
> > blacks from flying too?
> 
> Seen any black suicide bombers?

Not yet. But maybe I just didn't look deep enough through the mass-medial 
fog of the terrorism "war".

> Black Muslim radicalism tends to express itself by mugging Jews and 
> stealing television sets. Strapping dynamite to one's chest just does 
> not seem to be a black thing.

With the proper leadership, everything is possible. Don't forget the 
WW2 kamikaze pilots, who weren't quite Arabs.




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 18 04:24:51 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:24:51 -0400
Subject: [osint] Screening of Protesters Unconstitutional, Court Rules
Message-ID: <p06110480bd995874d2d6@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text


To: "Bruce Tefft" <btefft at community-research.com>
Thread-Index: AcS0kySSChdBPRLEQbu8o9ie8LOH1AAbmsxQ
From: "Bruce Tefft" <btefft at community-research.com>
Mailing-List: list osint at yahoogroups.com; contact osint-owner at yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list osint at yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:00:09 -0400
Subject: [osint] Screening of Protesters Unconstitutional, Court Rules
Reply-To: osint at yahoogroups.com






Screening of Protesters Unconstitutional, Court Rules

By C.G. Wallace
Associated Press
Sunday, October 17, 2004; Page A13

ATLANTA, Oct. 16 -- Fears of a terrorist attack are not sufficient reason
for authorities to search people at a protest, a federal appeals court has
ruled, saying Sept. 11, 2001, "cannot be the day liberty perished."

A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit ruled
unanimously Friday that protesters may not be required to pass through metal
detectors when they gather next month for a rally against a U.S. training
academy for Latin American soldiers.

Authorities began using the metal detectors at the annual School of the
Americas protest after the 2001 terrorist attacks, but the court found that
practice to be unconstitutional.

"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on
Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly
over," Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. "Sept. 11, 2001, already a
day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this
country."

City officials in Columbus, Ga., contended the searches were needed because
of the elevated risk of terrorism, but the court threw out that argument,
saying it would "eviscerate the Fourth Amendment."

"In the absence of some reason to believe that international terrorists
would target or infiltrate this protest, there is no basis for using Sept.
11 as an excuse for searching the protesters," the court said.

Columbus Mayor Bob Poydasheff and Police Chief Willie Dozier did not return
messages seeking comment Saturday.

Michael Greenberger, law professor and director of the University of
Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security, said the ruling could
have broader implications if it is used to challenge aspects of the USA
Patriot Act.

It was surprising, he said, coming from the conservative-leaning 11th
Circuit, based in Atlanta, but the opinion was "very well reasoned" and
reflected "conventional application of constitutional principles."

The Rev. Roy Bourgeois, a priest who founded the protest group called School
of the Americas Watch, praised the ruling for safeguarding essential rights.


"I felt that they were using 9/11 as an excuse, along with the Patriot Act,
to interfere with our First Amendment rights," he said. "They are using this
to get around what the Constitution is really rooted in."

The metal detectors caused long lines and congestion outside the protest
area, he said, comparing it to routing 10,000 people through a single
security gate at an airport.

"It was not just an inconvenience, it was a nightmare. We couldn't get to
the place of assembly in an orderly fashion," he said.

About 15,000 demonstrators attend the annual vigil, demanding the closing of
the center, formerly called the School of the Americas. The facility at Fort
Benning was reopened in 2001 as the Western Hemisphere Institute for
Security Cooperation.

The protests began in 1990. This year's demonstration is scheduled for Nov.
20-21.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38747-2004Oct16.html?referrer
=email



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 18 04:32:24 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 07:32:24 -0400
Subject: Negroponte Evangelizes Internet Bearer Transactions in 
  InformationWeek (was re: Peer-To-Peer Payoff)
Message-ID: <p06110481bd9958bde40b@[66.149.49.5]>

Negroponte sat on the board of DigiCash, once...

Cheers,
RAH
-------

<http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=49901099>



Peer-To-Peer Payoff



By Nicholas Negroponte,    InformationWeek
 Oct. 18, 2004
 URL:
http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=49901099



 The next 25 years of information technology will blur boundaries between
previously well-formed and discrete concepts, entities, or states of being.
For example, work and play, nation and individual, rich and poor will be
interpreted differently, with more overlaps than differences because of the
porous nature of "being digital." A fully interconnected world with a
common language is a very different place than one delimited by distance
and Newtonian physics. Without question, the generation of kids born a
quarter of a century hence will have totally different views about some of
the most basic tenets of society, from love and family to business and
pleasure. Of these basic elements, I have chosen to focus on one: money.
How will transactions change over the next 25 years? Perhaps surprisingly.

Cattle are widely considered the oldest form of money, used over 10,000
years ago to make payments and to account for debts and credits. The
inherent value was in the cow itself. Only much later, after the Stone Age,
did currency emerge in which its worth was established by convention and
trust, using objects like shells and shell imitations. Modern coinage and
paper money can be traced to China 500 B.C. and 100 B.C., using metal and
leather, respectively. Paper banknotes emerged at the end of the 17th
century as a promise to pay the bearer a sum on demand. These were
handwritten and signed by cashiers. Only in the middle of the 18th century
did printed, fixed denominations start to appear. It then took another 100
years for fully printed notes to emerge without need for filling in the
name of the payee and signing each one individually. We call this stuff
cash.

Today, cash has been replaced increasingly by electronic credit and debit.
In excess of three trillion dollars is moved around the planet daily.
Conversions occur, accounts are changed, addressers and addressees are
modified. But no money moves in the sense of coins or pigs going from my
pocket or pen to yours. Everything is a scheme of pointers. The bits used
to achieve such accounting don't have value unto themselves. They're only
the means.

Some people, including myself, believe the next step is for some of those
bits to have value. That is to say, consider a string of bits to be like a
virtual cow or shell. In order to distinguish these bits (like telling the
difference between a beautiful seashell and a piece of coal), they would
need an agreed identity. To avoid forgery, they would need a unique and
secure ID. And to stop multiple spending of the same bits, there would need
to be a clearing process or a means to reveal the identity of anybody who
tries to double-spend. All of these requirements are easily achieved in
both traceable and anonymous systems of E-cash. In these cases, the money
does move. The bits are money. The more you have, the richer you are. This
is the future, though maybe only in part.

A parallel and more intriguing form of trade in the future will be barter.
Swapping is a very attractive form of exchange because each party uses a
devalued currency, in some cases one that would otherwise be wasted. Many
of us are too embarrassed to run yard sales or too lazy to suffer the
inconvenience and indignity of eBay. But imagine if you weren't. The unused
things in your basement can be converted into something you need or want.
Likewise, the person with whom you're swapping is giving something of value
to you which is less so to them. With minimal computation, three-way,
four-way, and n-way swaps can emerge, thereby removing the need for any
common currency.

Swapping is extended easily to baby-sitting for a ride to New York, a
mansion for a two-hundred-foot yacht, or leftover food for a good laugh. In
some cases, people will swap for monetary or nonmonetary currencies.
Without question, we'll see new forms of market-making and auctions. But
the most stunning change will be peer-to-peer, and peer-to-peer-to-peer-
... transaction of goods and services. If you fish and want your teeth
cleaned, you need to find a dentist who needs fish, which is so unlikely
that money works much better. But if a chauffeur wanted fish and the
dentist wanted a driver, the loop is closed. While this is nearly
impossible to do in the physical world, it's trivial in cyberspace. Add the
fact that some goods and services themselves can be in digital form, and it
gets easier and more likely. An interesting side benefit will be the value
of one's reputation for delivering on your promises--thus, identities will
have real value and not be something to hide.

The point can be generalized beyond money. Peer-to-peer is a much deeper
concept than we understand today. We're limited by assumptions rooted in
and derived from the physical world. Information technology over the next
25 years will change those limits through force of new habits. Let me cite
just one: I think nothing of moving millions of bits from one laptop to
another (inches away) by using the Internet and transferring those bits
through a server 10,000 miles away. Imagine telling that to somebody just
25 years ago.

Nicholas Negroponte is the founding chairman of MIT's Media Laboratory and
the author of the seminal work on the digital revolution, "Being Digital"
(Knopf, 1995).

Illustration by Dan Brown

Return to: 25 Years Of InformationWeek


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 10:07:26 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:07:26 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <9063289.1098020617716.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>

    --
John Kelsey
> It's one thing if you see some guy lighting a fuse sticking 
> out of his shoe, and quite another if you say "You look kinda 
> terroristy; I'm sending you off the plane."  This works as a 
> reasonable strategy only if:
>
> a.  The probability ratios don't work out so that the 
> overwhelming majority of people you throw off planes are 
> innocent.

Provided the number of people you throw off planes is rather 
small, I don't see the problem.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     jppN6hyI9eo1ip7n6mKRd1QNRbKAQeKb06J6pxY2
     4NqUTiLGU0XOpAJ3Rm5yFmdrm/+4BWSzcv6y9YT/U




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 10:07:28 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:07:28 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <10795261.1098019872641.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <417395E0.32333.1EC04B@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Mc Veigh did not target innocents, and if he did target a 
> > plane full of innocents, perhaps in order to kill one 
> > guilty man on board, there is no way in hell he himself 
> > would be on that plane.

John Kelsey
> Well, he targeted a building full of innocents, so he could 
> get some BATF people in one part of the building, right?  I 
> guess I'm missing the part where he took especial care not to 
> blow up people who had no connection with the Waco disaster. 
> How would you differentiate his target selection from that of 
> the 9/11 attackers who hit the Pentagon?

If the 9/11 attackers had *only* targeted the pentagon, that 
would have been fine by me.  I am one of those who cheered in 
the movie theater when the aliens blow up Washington in the 
movie "Independence day"

> Though you're right, he didn't do the suicide bomber thing. 
> Does that constitute a guarantee that no white terrorist ever 
> will do so?

It is a good indication that sufficiently few will ever do so 
that it is not worth while checking shoes during boarding 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     tvzXxqFqeKwLL20vEBehl+eK0AJ0cAAzrXFkno0
     44yKcITMM8GEtW/RIPtI+Em4Ylp7aOgWb/fCmC9AG




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 10:27:38 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:27:38 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410171543290.0@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <4171B943.16994.2CCBB21@localhost>
Message-ID: <41739A9A.16465.31363B@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > > > > > If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you 
> > > > > > should have to drive.

> > Thomas Shaddack
> > > Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?

James A. Donald:
> > Hard biscuit

Thomas Shaddack
> Do I interpret this statement correctly as the endorsement of 
> ethnicity-based travel restrictions?

No.  You can take a boat, if they will have you, drive to 
Mexico to fly with people less likely to be the target of mad 
bombers who look like you, hire a private plane, or take a long 
swim.

> > > Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?

> > They do.

> I am afraid either I don't understand you correctly, or you 
> are contradicting yourself.

I was unclear.  To clarify:  So far the terrorists have not 
struck at buses outside Israel.  When they do start striking at 
buses, then people who look like mad bombers should not be 
allowed on buses.  Until then, they should be allowed on buses.

> > The proposition that we need to walk delicately for fear of 
> > disturbing the tender sensibilities of arabs seems 
> > laughable.

> Being told I can't use some quite common resource, in this 
> case an important means of transportation, because of so 
> irrelevant factor as ethnicity, isn't exactly delicate.

A very large number of muslims, particularly arab muslims- a 
small minority in the US, a large minority or substantial 
majority in many muslim countries, continually seek to confront 
the infidel in a wide variety of ways, and interpret our 
politeness and care to avoid harming muslims as weakness and 
fear.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Kn476w4tT/gvivWH76W69/lBhHE5o0IKQ1oYJggS
     4AiBUDha46+ldVnTeFiyvMwJoG9A/oE/Ac0FEd/uH




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 10:37:47 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:37:47 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410181911460.11598@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
Message-ID: <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>

    --
Thomas Shaddack:
> > > a.  The probability ratios don't work out so that the 
> > > overwhelming majority of people you throw off planes are 
> > > innocent.

James A. Donald:
> > Provided the number of people you throw off planes is 
> > rather small, I don't see the problem.

Thomas Shaddack wrote:
> It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows 
> when being interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to 
> blacklist *you*.

I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people 
interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)

People who are, for the most part, not like us are trying to 
kill people like us. Let us chuck all those people not-like-us 
off those planes where most of the passengers are people like 
us.  This really is not rocket science. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     KbVFhnyRmgiunG9XxU98lrDIIf2ZSXYFmkT7Dfe
     4TIi2Ou/RGdPMFC3/LaIxWHM688e/B3FsA3jjPjK0




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 11:38:15 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:38:15 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity.."Ethnicity" is Bullshit
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F13USp3sJWGYd00022c73@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4173AB27.19505.71DE28@localhost>

    --
Tyler Durden
> Let's just state the obvious: September 11th occurred not
> because we had a few "crazy Muslim fundamentalists" out there
> that decided they "hate our freedoms". The struck us because
> we've been fuckin' over a large swath of the Muslim (not only
> Arab) world for 100 years or so

And the reason they are murdering Iraqi Christians, Filipinos,
Ambionese and Timorese is?


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     m2hVqEkFSYQ0PKxyclcvEkjwbbFYMElmQS5ao0Uh
     47AIr2bZ3JXSCGM1iNSQlysfAVI6XHBVHWeEvaM/E




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 11:48:25 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:48:25 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F5dAefpGtS79A00036605@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > A very large number of muslims, particularly arab muslims-
> > a small minority in the US, a large minority or substantial
> > majority in many muslim countries, continually seek to
> > confront the infidel in a wide variety of ways, and
> > interpret our politeness and care to avoid harming muslims
> > as weakness and fear."

Tyler Durden
> I would bet that statements that sound very, very close to
> this were uttered prior to Iraq II.
>
> "Care to Avoid harming Muslims"?
>
> You are either trolling or [...]

Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children as
human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to show
more concern for Iraqi lives than he did. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     z0Tj1tmeI/AaMuuBMu2Z8xH7q6Mx5bQYJFqN5xU1
     4zftsnadKxHqaGDRsPhgFcT8bZCLY79W7Yk0HjGwc




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 12:07:58 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:07:58 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410182017070.0@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>
Message-ID: <4173B21E.8724.8D1245@localhost>

 On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
> > People who are, for the most part, not like us are trying to kill
> > people like us. Let us chuck all those people not-like-us off those
> > planes where most of the passengers are people like us.

Thomas Shaddack 
> Define "us"?

Easier to define "them"

"Us" is those people who do not much resemble them.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 12:18:39 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:18:39 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost>
References: <BAY24-F5dAefpGtS79A00036605@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>

    --
Tyler Durden
> "Care to Avoid harming Muslims"?
>
> You are either trolling or [...]

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
: :	Despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to
: :	renounce violence, at least seven former prisoners
: :	of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have
: :	returned to terrorism, at times with deadly
: :	consequences.
: :
: :	At least two are believed to have died in fighting
: :	in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a
: :	raid of a suspected training camp in Afghanistan,
: :	Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman, said
: :	last week. Others are at large.

: :	Additional former detainees have expressed a desire
: :	to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers
: :	in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russian
: :	soldiers in Chechnya.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     gZPWnxSpOCzn/7t/pyram/Z9ixbExE1haS5OzFBm
     4i6xvRLGqBtHJfp8bm6GLFqF6pwABThwj/PjOpaVx




From hal at finney.org  Mon Oct 18 12:49:27 2004
From: hal at finney.org (Hal Finney)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:49:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Crypto blogs?
Message-ID: <mailman.1047.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Does anyone have pointers to crypto related weblogs?  Bruce Schneier
recently announced that Crypto-Gram would be coming out incrementally
in blog form at http://www.schneier.com/blog/.  I follow Ian Grigg's
Financial Cryptography blog, http://www.financialcryptography.com/.
Recently I learned about Adam Shostack's http://www.emergentchaos.com/,
although it seems to be more security than crypto.

Any other good ones?

Hal Finney

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Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at metzdowd.com

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jya at pipeline.com  Mon Oct 18 13:35:38 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:35:38 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410181911460.11598@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost> 
  <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
Message-ID: <E1CJbUF-000289-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

James is wired to be unempathetic about victims, as was McVeigh,
as are fearless military and criminal killers, as are national leaders 
of a yellow stripe who never taste the bitter end of their exculpatory
spin.

What makes the wire work is that they do not believe that what 
they do unto others will be done to them. This is their faith, blind, 
cross-eyedly focussed vision which sees a right safe path down 
the thinnest of righteous tunnels of imagined invulnerability.

Call it the armor of cowards. 

Call it fundamentalism, or patriotism, or pinheads up their tiny 
assholes.

Been there: saw the vision, sniffed the odor, licked the sides
of the honey-dripping tunnel, gagged, muttered what the shit is 
this stuff I've been preached is myrhh out of the backdoors
of virgins, yelled, hey, sarge, get me out of my hole. Sarge was 
long gone, preaching and laughing like the devil.

AIDS of the mind is hard to cure.




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 10:45:41 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:45:41 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F5dAefpGtS79A00036605@hotmail.com>

"A very large number of muslims, particularly arab muslims- a
small minority in the US, a large minority or substantial
majority in many muslim countries, continually seek to confront
the infidel in a wide variety of ways, and interpret our
politeness and care to avoid harming muslims as weakness and
fear."

I would bet that statements that sound very, very close to this were uttered 
prior to Iraq II.

"Care to Avoid harming Muslims"?

You are either trolling with better skill than even I, the Great Tyler 
Durden could muster, or else you are completely and totally ignorant of 
world history.

Go read some history books and you will understand the reason we (the US) 
has been targeted in particular. You'll quickly find that their hatred of us 
in not accidental.

As for your "looks like a mad bomber" ideas, are you suggesting that, the 
day after a militant Indonesian muslim commits an act of terrorism, we 
should then exclude all asians from our airplanes, buses and subways?

I don't think you've thought this out very well.

-TD


>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:27:38 -0700
>
>     --
>James A. Donald:
> > > > > > > If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you
> > > > > > > should have to drive.
>
> > > Thomas Shaddack
> > > > Ever tried to drive to Europe? Or to Hawaii?
>
>James A. Donald:
> > > Hard biscuit
>
>Thomas Shaddack
> > Do I interpret this statement correctly as the endorsement of
> > ethnicity-based travel restrictions?
>
>No.  You can take a boat, if they will have you, drive to
>Mexico to fly with people less likely to be the target of mad
>bombers who look like you, hire a private plane, or take a long
>swim.
>
> > > > Why airplanes don't count as a form of public transport?
>
> > > They do.
>
> > I am afraid either I don't understand you correctly, or you
> > are contradicting yourself.
>
>I was unclear.  To clarify:  So far the terrorists have not
>struck at buses outside Israel.  When they do start striking at
>buses, then people who look like mad bombers should not be
>allowed on buses.  Until then, they should be allowed on buses.
>
> > > The proposition that we need to walk delicately for fear of
> > > disturbing the tender sensibilities of arabs seems
> > > laughable.
>
> > Being told I can't use some quite common resource, in this
> > case an important means of transportation, because of so
> > irrelevant factor as ethnicity, isn't exactly delicate.
>
>A very large number of muslims, particularly arab muslims- a
>small minority in the US, a large minority or substantial
>majority in many muslim countries, continually seek to confront
>the infidel in a wide variety of ways, and interpret our
>politeness and care to avoid harming muslims as weakness and
>fear.
>
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      Kn476w4tT/gvivWH76W69/lBhHE5o0IKQ1oYJggS
>      4AiBUDha46+ldVnTeFiyvMwJoG9A/oE/Ac0FEd/uH

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From sunder at sunder.net  Mon Oct 18 11:22:02 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:22:02 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>
References: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
  <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410181417340.30214@silkworth.sunder.net>

I think you need to read this remake of the "First they came for the 
commies" poem.  Short translation - whenever anyone's rights are being 
trampled upon, whether it affects you or not, you should protest.

Goes along with one of the unsaid credos about cypherpunks: "I absolutely 
disagree with what she said, but I'll defend to the death her right to say 
it." which along with "Cypherpunks write code" fell quite short of its 
goal.


http://buffaloreport.com/021123rohde.html

Here I'll save you the trouble.

- - -

They came for the Muslims, and I didn't speak up...

By Stephen Rohde
 
(Author's Note:  The USA Patriot Act became law a little over one year 
ago.)
 
First they came for the Muslims, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a  
Muslim.
 
Then they came for the immigrants, detaining them indefinitely solely on 
the certification of the attorney general, and I didn't speak up because I  
wasn't an immigrant.
 
Then they came to eavesdrop on suspects consulting with their attorneys, 
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a suspect.
 
Then they came to prosecute noncitizens before secret military 
commissions, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a noncitizen.
 
Then they came to enter homes and offices for unannounced "sneak and peak"  
searches, and I didn't speak up because I had nothing to hide.
 
Then they came to reinstate Cointelpro and resume the infiltration and  
surveillance of domestic religious and political groups, and I didn't 
speak up because I no longer participated in any groups.
 
Then they came to arrest American citizens and hold them indefinitely  
without any charges and without access to lawyers, and I didn't speak up 
because I would never be arrested.
 
Then they came to institute TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention  
System) recruiting citizens to spy on other citizens and I didn't speak up 
because I was afraid.
 
Then they came for anyone who objected to government policy because it 
only aided the terrorists and gave ammunition to America's enemies, and I 
didn't  speak up ... because I didn't speak up.
 
Then they came for me, and by that time, no one was left to speak up.

    Forum Column (from the Daily Journal, 11/20/02). Stephen Rohde is an 
attorney. He edited American Words of Freedom and was was president of the 
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California.


Does Rohde's text seem familiar? It should. He based it on one of the 
web's most widely-circulated texts about silence in the face of evil:

        In Germany, the Nazis first came for the communists, and I didn't 
speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I 
didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade 
unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then 
they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I was a 
protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left 
to speak for me.


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people 
> interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)
> 
> People who are, for the most part, not like us are trying to 
> kill people like us. Let us chuck all those people not-like-us 
> off those planes where most of the passengers are people like 
> us.  This really is not rocket science. 




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 12:31:25 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:31:25 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F38JXsNQptgFr000002fa@hotmail.com>

"Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children as
human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to show
more concern for Iraqi lives than he did."

There are giant, glaring holes in your logical processing, Mr Donald.

In this case let us remember that the whole situation is because WE are over 
THERE. This particular incident would not occur if we hadn't invaded.

Aside from that, your posts are completely saturated with the "They're more 
evil than we are therefore it's OK for us to be fuckin them over" logic.

This is also why your (mostly faulty) examples of Muslim violence are 
basically irrelevant, or at least in the case(s) where the US has taken 
unilateral action to undermine or destabilise regimes that don't happen to 
serve us (guess that's just a coincidence, eh).

-TD


>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:48:25 -0700
>
>     --
>James A. Donald:
> > > A very large number of muslims, particularly arab muslims-
> > > a small minority in the US, a large minority or substantial
> > > majority in many muslim countries, continually seek to
> > > confront the infidel in a wide variety of ways, and
> > > interpret our politeness and care to avoid harming muslims
> > > as weakness and fear."
>
>Tyler Durden
> > I would bet that statements that sound very, very close to
> > this were uttered prior to Iraq II.
> >
> > "Care to Avoid harming Muslims"?
> >
> > You are either trolling or [...]
>
>Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children as
>human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to show
>more concern for Iraqi lives than he did.
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      z0Tj1tmeI/AaMuuBMu2Z8xH7q6Mx5bQYJFqN5xU1
>      4zftsnadKxHqaGDRsPhgFcT8bZCLY79W7Yk0HjGwc

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 18 12:47:06 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:47:06 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F13nGKenykohs0002b5cb@hotmail.com>

WOW!

Let's examine your little clip here.


>Tyler Durden
> > "Care to Avoid harming Muslims"?

Your statement was that the US took special care in avoiding harm to 
Muslims. In this case we have Muslims tortured at Guantanamo and now angry 
as hell. And you expected...what?

>http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
>: :	Despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to
>: :	renounce violence, at least seven former prisoners
>: :	of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have
>: :	returned to terrorism, at times with deadly
>: :	consequences.

Wow! Tortured prisoners signed statements and then went back on their 
promises? The nerve!

Note the incredible linguistic bias. "Returned to terrorism?...That's a 
laughable statement for people who returned to their own country to fight an 
invader. And the word "Despite" it's arguable even more hilarious.

And of course, your quote of this piece in this context points to your 
ever-present logic of "They're more evil than we are therefore it's OK if we 
fuck them over".

>: :	Additional former detainees have expressed a desire
>: :	to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers
>: :	in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russian
>: :	soldiers in Chechnya.

Hum. Muislims helping Muslims to push the US or Russians out of their 
occupied countries. I've seen worse uses for religion.

But more importantly, are you seeing where this is headed? Let's forget 
differing ideologies and get really, really practical here. If you or I were 
grabbed in our own country and brought 7000 miles away, and then tortured 
for 2 years, wouldn't you most likely become convinced that the torturing 
nation was a great evil that had to be stopped? Even more, what if your life 
sucked in your own country and you didn't have a lot to live for anyway?

The violence sown by Western powers will continue to result in further 
Septemeber 11ths. Simply increasing the scope or intensity (a la Iraq II) 
isn't going to make things better.

-TD




>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      gZPWnxSpOCzn/7t/pyram/Z9ixbExE1haS5OzFBm
>      4i6xvRLGqBtHJfp8bm6GLFqF6pwABThwj/PjOpaVx

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 18 12:59:05 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:59:05 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4173B21E.8724.8D1245@localhost>
References: <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost> 
  <4173B21E.8724.8D1245@localhost>
Message-ID: <p061104a8bd99c9e769db@[66.149.49.5]>

At 12:07 PM -0700 10/18/04, James A. Donald wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>> > People who are, for the most part, not like us are trying to kill
>> > people like us. Let us chuck all those people not-like-us off those
>> > planes where most of the passengers are people like us.
>
>Thomas Shaddack
>> Define "us"?
>
>Easier to define "them"
>
>"Us" is those people who do not much resemble them.

Here's *my* current definition of "us":

<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=philodox-20&path=tg%2Fdetail%2F-%2F0385720386%2Fqid%3D1098128506%2Fsr%3D8-1%2Fref%3Dpd_csp_1%3Fv%3Dglance%26s%3Dbooks%26n%3D507846>

A great book. The world's greatest business plan.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Mon Oct 18 14:52:58 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 17:52:58 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410182112090.11608@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost> 	
  <0410182112090.11608@somehost.domainz.com>
Message-ID: <1098136378.1451.7.camel@daft>

On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 15:17, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
> Pentagon protects their people by distance - being it by bombing from high 
> altitude, or by using cruise missiles.
> 
> Everybody uses the technology available to them. What's bad on it?
> 
> Invariably, the side that uses the defensive measure - being it smart 
> weapons[1] or human shields - classifies it as tactical, while the other 
> side considers it cowardly.
> 
> A nice example of symmetry in asymmetry.
> 
> 
> [1] The defensive aspect here is to allow the attackers to attack from 
> distance beyond the reach of the other side's active defenses, thus not 
> risking anything more than a piece of overpriced electronics.

If some asshole is coming at you with a knife, it's cowardly to shoot
him before he's in range? Dumbass.




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Mon Oct 18 10:14:01 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:14:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
References: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410181911460.11598@somehost.domainz.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> > a.  The probability ratios don't work out so that the 
> > overwhelming majority of people you throw off planes are 
> > innocent.
> 
> Provided the number of people you throw off planes is rather 
> small, I don't see the problem.

It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows when being 
interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to blacklist *you*.

Do you propose a way to appeal the decision? Will the flight (and 
associated losses, eg. lost contract due to a missed meeting, etc.) 
reimbursed?




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 18 17:23:28 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:23:28 -0400
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
Message-ID: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/3753886.stm>

The BBC

 |  Entertainment  |  Have Your Say  | In Pictures  |  Week at a Glance
Monday, 18 October, 2004, 16:58 GMT 17:58 UK

 Printers betray document secrets That staple of crime novels - solving a
case by identifying the typewriter used to write a ransom note - is being
updated for the modern day.

 US scientists have discovered that every desktop printer has a signature
style that it invisibly leaves on all the documents it produces.

 They have now found a way to use this to identify individual laser printers.

 The work will help track down printers used to make bogus bank notes, fake
passports and other important papers.

 Spot colour

 Before now it was thought that the differences between cheap,
mass-produced desktop printers were not significant enough to make
individual identification possible.

 But a team from Purdue University in Indiana led by Professor Edward Delp
has developed techniques that make it possible to trace which printer was
used to produce which document.

 In 11 out of 12 tests, the team's methods identified which model of
desktop laser printer was used to print particular documents.

 "We also believe that we will be able to identify not only which model of
printer was used but specifically which printer was used," Professor Delp
said.

 The image processing software developed by Professor Delp's team looks for
the "intrinsic signatures" that each printer produces.

 Professor Jan Allebach, who helped develop the ID techniques, said the
production methods demanded by competition in the desktop printer market
meant there was quite a lot of variation in the way different machines
printed pages.

 "For a company to make printers all behave exactly the same way would
require tightening the manufacturing tolerances to the point where each
printer would be too expensive for consumers," he said.

 The differences emerge in the way that a laser printer lays down ink on
the paper and which can be spotted with the Purdue system.

 Inkjet is next

 Typically, different printers lay down ink in distinct bands that can be
spotted by image processing software.

 "We extract mathematical features, or measurements, from printed letters,
then we use image analysis and pattern-recognition techniques to identify
the printer," said Professor Delp.

 Desktop printers coupled with scanners have become favourites with forgers
as they produce high-quality copies of banknotes and personal documents
that can fool a casual glance.

 The team is now working to extend its techiques to cover inkjet printers.

 The team is also working on ways to manipulate printers so they lay down
ink with more easily identifiable signatures.

 The researchers will present their detailed findings at the International
Conference on Digital Printing Technologies in early November.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 20:31:25 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:31:25 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity.."Ethnicity" is Bullshit
In-Reply-To: <4173AB27.19505.71DE28@localhost>
References: <BAY24-F13USp3sJWGYd00022c73@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4174281D.12916.259FCA0@localhost>

    --
Tyler Durden
> > Let's just state the obvious: September 11th occurred not 
> > because we had a few "crazy Muslim fundamentalists" out
> > there that decided they "hate our freedoms". The struck us
> > because we've been fuckin' over a large swath of the Muslim
> > (not only Arab) world for 100 years or so

James A. Donald:
> And the reason they are murdering Iraqi Christians,
> Filipinos, Ambionese and Timorese is?

And I forgot to mention a hundred thousand or more Sudanese,
not to mention that Al Quaeda murdered far more Afghans than
Americans. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     U7+z5L2eeFW+S1IwpXSNX1hEyOCuQCcGDFWykNQj
     4klCW0iUxAJl1ub0DnUbDZKbwXJdS70AuL86+gLTI




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Mon Oct 18 11:38:17 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:38:17 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>
References: <417395DE.22913.1EB882@localhost>
  <41739CFB.25055.3A7F7A@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410182017070.0@somehost.domainz.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> Thomas Shaddack wrote:
> > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows 
> > when being interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to 
> > blacklist *you*.
> 
> I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people 
> interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)

Never underestimate the power of the combination of the People With 
Agendas with Classified Computerized Profiling Algorithms. :)

Be vigilant.

> People who are, for the most part, not like us are trying to kill people 
> like us. Let us chuck all those people not-like-us off those planes 
> where most of the passengers are people like us.

Define "us"?

> This really is not rocket science. 

Personally, as a relatively frequent flyer, I worry much more about things 
like cutting corners of fuselage and engine maintenance and quality of 
fuel (and, perhaps even more, the quality of onboard coffee) than about 
bombers on board. (On the other hand, local states grew out of their 
imperial-lust phase couple decades/centuries ago, which makes their people 
less disliked. Somehow lesser tendency to trigger-happy gung-ho a-ramboin' 
seems to be helpful too.)

Seeing things in perspective sometimes helps.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 20:41:29 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:41:29 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410182112090.11608@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost>
Message-ID: <41742A79.25304.2633680@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children
> > as human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to
> > show more concern for Iraqi lives than he did.

Thomas Shaddack
> Pentagon protects their people by distance - being it by
> bombing from high altitude, or by using cruise missiles.
>
> Everybody uses the technology available to them. What's bad
> on it?
>
> Invariably, the side that uses the defensive measure - being
> it smart weapons[1] or human shields - classifies it as
> tactical, while the other side considers it cowardly.

But no one would ever use human shields as a protection against
Sadr.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     baNQWrpILKDhhFIBGXuMuSPmLUwgDjnVj7KGTDrs
     4cKV4IqQITCwrJCTQCt5kQpfh5eiP+IX2EqGFdRA8




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 20:51:34 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:51:34 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F38JXsNQptgFr000002fa@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41742CD6.810.26C6FA1@localhost>

    --
On 18 Oct 2004 at 15:31, Tyler Durden wrote:
> Aside from that, your posts are completely saturated with the 
> "They're more evil than we are therefore it's OK for us to be 
> fuckin them over" logic.

They are more evil that we are, as demonstrated by their 
propensity to kill all sorts of people, including each other, 
and including us. This forces us to do something violent. 
Imposing democracy on Iraq at gunpoint was probably a bad idea, 
but it was selected as the option that would raise the least 
objection.  Any more effectual measure is going to piss you lot 
off even more.  A more effectual measure and considerably less 
costly measure would have been to confiscate Iraq's and Saudi 
Arabia's oil reserves, and ethnically cleanse all male muslims 
above the age of puberty from the oil bearing areas.  This 
democracy stuff did not work in Haiti and things look 
considerably more difficult, and more expensive, in Iraq. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     sN+N7EZrY5IEjAANVirGQOOx7UYwBe9YPumiQ4uI
     4PHJIbv0IpxzyH8CXPzWKj/497VCciWU9zZler22L




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Mon Oct 18 20:54:02 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:54:02 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
References: <416FBF29.17594.AD343E@localhost> 
  <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
Message-ID: <200410190637.i9J6bhtd018079@positron.jfet.org>

>Damian Gerow
> > I've had more than one comment about my ID photos that amount
> > to basically: "You look like you've just left a terrorist
> > training camp."

As Erma Bombeck wrote, by the time you look like your
passport photo, it's time to come home from vacation.
An extra couple of red-eye flights don't help, either.

At 11:27 AM 10/16/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>If you really look like the shoe bomber, then you should have
>to drive, or use public transport.

James misspoke here - the only public air transport I'm aware of
in the US is run by the military, and or if he meant
that people who look like shaggy-haired Brits with real leather shoes
should be banned from privately-run transportation systems like
airplanes and Greyhound, that pretty much leaves
Amtrack as the only long-distance transport option for civilians,
since city and county busses normally don't go very far.

At 11:27 AM 10/16/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
 > > Provided the number of people you throw off planes is
 > > rather small, I don't see the problem.

Depends a lot on how high up the planes are when you throw them off...

There's the concept of "due process of law" that
the Bush administration isn't very familiar with
that determines when you're Constitutionally permitted
to deprive people of their liberties.


At 11:38 AM 10/18/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
 > Personally, as a relatively frequent flyer, I worry much more about things
 > like cutting corners of fuselage and engine maintenance and quality of
 > fuel (and, perhaps even more, the quality of onboard coffee) than about
 > bombers on board.
Unfortunately, cutting the quality of the onboard coffee means that
you're more likely to look like a shoe-bomber by the time the
plane arrives.



----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com  




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Mon Oct 18 20:54:51 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:54:51 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>
References: <BAY24-F5dAefpGtS79A00036605@hotmail.com> 
  <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <200410190637.i9J6bhFc018078@positron.jfet.org>

James Donald recently wrote
 > Thomas Shaddack wrote:
 > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who knows
 > > when being interested in anon e-cash will become a ground to
 > > blacklist *you*.

 > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people
 > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)

More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being accused of
funding terrorist activities.

At 11:38 AM 10/18/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
>Never underestimate the power of the combination of the
>People With Agendas with Classified Computerized Profiling Algorithms. :)

Unfortunately, the primary algorithm seems to work like this:
- Somebody puts a name on some list because it seems like a
         good idea at the time, and there's no due process required.
- Everybody copies lists from everybody else,
         with minimal attempt to track where the information comes from.
- Database corruption propagates rapidly, so anybody who's on
         any list because of political corruption like Neo-Cointelpro
         stays there because of database corruption.




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Mon Oct 18 21:04:14 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:04:14 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041018202225.037d3b20@pop.idiom.com>
References: <BAY24-F5dAefpGtS79A00036605@hotmail.com> 
  <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041018202225.037d3b20@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <200410190637.i9J6bhX5018080@positron.jfet.org>

At 12:18 PM 10/18/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
>: :     Despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to
>: :     renounce violence, at least seven former prisoners
>: :     of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have
>: :     returned to terrorism, at times with deadly
>: :     consequences.
>: :
>: :     At least two are believed to have died in fighting
>: :     in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a
>: :     raid of a suspected training camp in Afghanistan,
>: :     Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman, said
>: :     last week. Others are at large.
>
>: :     Additional former detainees have expressed a desire
>: :     to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers
>: :     in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russian
>: :     soldiers in Chechnya.

None of those things sound like terrorism to me,
just basic military violence, though certainly the
American and Russian militaries aren't the only ones
engaging in terrorist activities in South Asia
and some of these ~146 people may be among them.
But most of the Warlord-vs-Warlord fighting in Afghanistan
isn't terrorism, and most of the Iraqi Resistance isn't either,
and I'd have expected that a staunch anti-communist like James
wouldn't mind people shooting at Russian soldiers even though
they're no longer Soviets.

At 11:38 AM 10/18/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>Tyler Durden
> > Let's just state the obvious: September 11th occurred not
> > because we had a few "crazy Muslim fundamentalists" out there
> > that decided they "hate our freedoms". The struck us because
> > we've been fuckin' over a large swath of the Muslim (not only
> > Arab) world for 100 years or so
>
>And the reason they are murdering Iraqi Christians, Filipinos,
>Ambionese and Timorese is?

While the ones murdering Iraqi Christians may be doing it out of
religious hatred as well as the perception that the
Americans are running a Christian crusade against the Muslim world,
the Indonesian invasions of their neighbors such as East Timor
are just good old nationalist expansion -
the US has been funding the Indonesian military for ~40 years
because they're our Anti-Communist buddies,
and who cares about their human rights records.
You didn't expect that behaviour to stop just because there
were no longer any Commies around, did you?




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Mon Oct 18 12:17:42 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:17:42 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost>
References: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410182112090.11608@somehost.domainz.com>

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> Sadre protected himself with Iraqi women and young children as
> human shields, showing that he expected the Pentagon to show
> more concern for Iraqi lives than he did. 

Pentagon protects their people by distance - being it by bombing from high 
altitude, or by using cruise missiles.

Everybody uses the technology available to them. What's bad on it?

Invariably, the side that uses the defensive measure - being it smart 
weapons[1] or human shields - classifies it as tactical, while the other 
side considers it cowardly.

A nice example of symmetry in asymmetry.


[1] The defensive aspect here is to allow the attackers to attack from 
distance beyond the reach of the other side's active defenses, thus not 
risking anything more than a piece of overpriced electronics.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 21:31:48 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:31:48 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <E1CJbUF-000289-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <0410181911460.11598@somehost.domainz.com>
Message-ID: <41743644.30414.291467E@localhost>

    --
On 18 Oct 2004 at 13:35, John Young wrote:
> James is wired to be unempathetic about victims, as was
> McVeigh, as are fearless military and criminal killers, as
> are national leaders of a yellow stripe who never taste the
> bitter end of their exculpatory spin.
>
> What makes the wire work is that they do not believe that
> what they do unto others will be done to them.

So you think our enemies should try to be even more savage and
cruel than they already are?

That would be difficult.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     8jFPc5YyznRSoFsz/euu3E71jE/C2JzYp7OIfB5b
     4xNxnhSKG4pS9CinRKGV1bL4JQv8SATqhIxtUwoyy




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 18 21:31:50 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:31:50 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F13nGKenykohs0002b5cb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41743646.17407.2914EE7@localhost>

    --
Tyler Durden
> Your statement was that the US took special care in avoiding
> harm to Muslims. In this case we have Muslims tortured at
> Guantanamo and now angry as hell. And you expected...what?

I expected them to be KEPT in Guantanamo.

Furthermore, they were not tortured, though they should have
been. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     wCUg52ZJNzaMD0ZPioMTruGISGd3DDwU6jUMELl/
     41LiTXyUsja0zJksTRtCgVaYxSideYIzzbGD/3Qq5




From sunder at sunder.net  Mon Oct 18 18:43:31 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:43:31 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041018215517.GA17541@arion.soze.net>
References: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost> 
  <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>  
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410162211200.3251@silkworth.sunder.net> 
  <20041018215517.GA17541@arion.soze.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410182138160.16560@silkworth.sunder.net>

RTFGoogle?

Google revealed:

http://www.jubilee-newspaper.com/atf_last_operation.htm
http://www.constitution.org/okc/jdt03-01.htm
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/qa/23076.html
http://www.lpsf.org/LPSF_Newsletters/nl_10_01.html
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:vrlZD0TAzU8J:www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ac7e1b57dbf.htm+ATF+paged+not+to+come+in+to+work+murrah&hl=en
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/proof-of-coverup.html
http://www.uwsa.com/pipermail/uwsa/2001q2/006627.html

and so on.


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Justin wrote:

> On 2004-10-16T22:12:52-0400, Sunder wrote:
> > There is still of course the matter of the unexploded bombs in that 
> > building that were dug out, and that the ATF received a "Don't come in to 
> > work" page on their beepers, and the seize and classification of all 
> > surveilance video tapes from things like ATM's across the street.
> 
> Sources?
> 
> -- 
> The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth,
> and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails.  -- L. Ron Hubbard 




From justin-cypherpunks at soze.net  Mon Oct 18 14:55:17 2004
From: justin-cypherpunks at soze.net (Justin)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:55:17 +0000
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410162211200.3251@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <41710597.1030.EE613@localhost>
  <41714AB0.20448.11CD039@localhost>
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410162211200.3251@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <20041018215517.GA17541@arion.soze.net>

On 2004-10-16T22:12:52-0400, Sunder wrote:
> There is still of course the matter of the unexploded bombs in that 
> building that were dug out, and that the ATF received a "Don't come in to 
> work" page on their beepers, and the seize and classification of all 
> surveilance video tapes from things like ATM's across the street.

Sources?

-- 
The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth,
and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails.  -- L. Ron Hubbard 




From cme at acm.org  Tue Oct 19 03:18:16 2004
From: cme at acm.org (Carl Ellison)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 03:18:16 -0700
Subject: CFP 2005 PKI R&D Workshop - Deadline soon
Message-ID: <mailman.1048.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

4th Annual PKI R&D Workshop: Multiple Paths to Trust
April 19-21, 2005
NIST -- Gaithersburg, MD
Papers and Proposals Due: October 29, 2004

Website: http://middleware.internet2.edu/pki05/
Registration Fee: $125.00

This workshop considers the full range of public key technology used
for security decisions and supporting functionalities, including
authentication, authorization, identity (syndication, federation, and
aggregation), and trust.  This year, the workshop has a particular
interest in how PKI and emerging trust mechanisms will interact with
each other at technical, policy and user levels to support trust
models that lack a central authority.  This workshop has three goals:

1. Explore the current state of public key technology and
   emerging trust mechanisms in different domains including
   web services; grid technologies; authentication systems,
   et al., in academia, research, government, and industry.

2. Share & discuss lessons learned and scenarios from vendors
   and practitioners on current deployments.

3. Provide a forum for leading security researchers to explore
   the issues relevant to PKI space in areas of security
   management, identity, trust, policy, authentication, and
   authorization.

CALL FOR PAPERS

We solicit papers, case studies, panel proposals, and participation
from researchers, systems architects, vendor engineers, and users.
Submitted works should address one or more critical areas of inquiry.

Topics include (but are not limited to):

* Federated versus Non-Federated trust models
* Standards related to PKI and security decision systems such as
  x509, SDSI/SPKI, PGP, XKMS, XACML, XRML, XML signature, and SAML.
* Cryptographic and alternative methods for supporting security
  decisions, including the characterization and encoding of data
* Intersection of policy based systems and PKI
* Privacy protection and implications
* Scalability of security systems
* Security of the components of PKI systems
* Security Infrastructures for constrained environments
* Improved human factor designs for security-related interfaces
  including authorization and policy management, naming, use of
  multiple private keys, and selective disclosure
* New paradigms in PKI architectures
* Reports of real-world experience with the use and deployment of
  PKI, including future research directions

Deadlines for conference paper and panel submissions are:

* Papers and Proposals Due: October 29, 2004
* Authors Notified:         December 10, 2004
* Final Materials Due:      February 18, 2005

Submissions should be provided electronically, in PDF, for standard
US letter-size paper (8.5 x 11 inches). Paper submissions must not
exceed 15 pages (single space, two column format with 1" margins
using a 10 pt or larger font) and have no header or footer text
(e.g., no page numbers). Proposals for panels should be no longer
than five pages and include possible panelists and an indication of
which panelists have confirmed availability.

Please submit the following information to pkichairs at internet2.edu:

* Name, affiliation, email, phone, postal address for the primary
  contact author
* First name, last name, and affiliation of each co-author
* The finished paper in PDF format as an attachment

All submissions will be acknowledged.

Submissions of papers must not substantially duplicate work that any
of the authors have published elsewhere or have submitted in parallel
to any other conferences or journals.

Accepted papers will be published in a proceedings of the workshop.

REGISTRATION

The registration fee of $125 per person includes workshop materials,
coffee breaks, lunches, and a dinner.  There will be no on-site
registration. Please pre-register by April 12, 2005 at

 https://rproxy.nist.gov/CRS/conf_ext.cfm?conf_id=1065

Teresa Vicente
NIST
Phone: (301) 975-3883
Fax: (301) 948-2067
email: teresa.vicente at nist.gov

An agenda will be available in late December at
http://middleware.internet2.edu/pki05/

ACCOMMODATIONS

A block of rooms has been reserved at the Gaithersburg Holiday Inn,
(301) 948-8900, at a special rate of $99, single or double, plus 12%
tax. Reservations must be received by April 4, 2005, in order to
receive the special rate.  Please mention you are attending the
"NIST/PKI Workshop".




+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Carl M. Ellison         cme at acm.org      http://theworld.com/~cme |
|    PGP: 75C5 1814 C3E3 AAA7 3F31  47B9 73F1 7E3C 96E7 2B71       |
+---Officer, arrest that man. He's whistling a copyrighted song.---+
--------------------------------------------------------------------- The
SPKI Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe spki" to
majordomo at metzdowd.com

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 19 09:39:05 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <200410190637.i9J6bhFc018078@positron.jfet.org>
References: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>
Message-ID: <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>

    --
Thomas Shaddack:
>  > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who 
>  > > knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a 
>  > > ground to blacklist *you*.

James A. Donald:
>  > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people 
>  > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)

Bill Stewart
> More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being 
> accused of funding terrorist activities.

When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money 
laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but 
they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly, 
even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly, 
for if they stopped them from doing business there would be 
nothing to steal.

When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek 
to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using 
repressive measures against everyone.

We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't 
sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists 
are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the 
more he looks like a patriot.

When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to 
kill and destroy.  Lashing out an external enemy, real or 
imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal 
enemies.  We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice 
between war against external or internal enemies.   Clearly, 
war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.

War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of 
peace.  The question is where the war is to be fought - in 
America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely destroy 
freedom.

What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front 
and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as 
big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a
threat as Middle Eastern Muslims. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD
     4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 19 09:59:15 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:59:15 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F39twD43oFLaq00031f9a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost>

    --
On 19 Oct 2004 at 10:23, Tyler Durden wrote:
> Most Cypherpunks would agree that free markets are a good
> thing. Basically, if you leave people alone, they'll figure
> out how to meet the needs that are out in there and, in the
> process, get a few of the goodies available to us as vapors
> on this world. I assume you would agree to this.

There are however some bad people, who want to conquer and
rule.  Some of them are nastier than others.  Those people need
to be killed.   Killing some of them is regrettably
controversial.  Killing terrorists should not be controversial.

> More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out
> or prevented from influencing have been modernizing rapidly,
> the most obvious example is China and Vietnam.

Your history is back to front. China and Vietnam stagnated,
until they invited capitalists back in, and promised they could
get rich.  Mean while the countries that we were not "kicked
out of" for example Taiwan and South Korea, became rich.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     y7IV2I3RzvTRwezbeYDac49MQJFtu4pLd09CpaV1
     4wwT8kfGpRCZY7aO/mhgeoOcaR9vYeYFWae8aMM/M




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 19 09:59:16 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:59:16 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <200410190637.i9J6bhX5018080@positron.jfet.org>
References: <6.0.3.0.0.20041018202225.037d3b20@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <4174E574.25619.1BDB9AD@localhost>

    --
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
> >: :     Despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to 
> >: :     renounce violence, at least seven former prisoners 
> >: :     of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have 
> >: :     returned to terrorism, at times with deadly 
> >: :     consequences.

On 18 Oct 2004 at 21:04, Bill Stewart wrote:
> None of those things sound like terrorism to me, just basic
> military violence,

Terrorists seldom engage in basic military violence, which
requires courage.

For example one of those released from Guatenamo captured
several chinese foreign aid workers working in Pakistan,
threatening to murder them:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-pak13.html

> though certainly the American and Russian militaries aren't
> the only ones engaging in terrorist activities in South Asia 
> and some of these ~146 people may be among them. But most of
> the Warlord-vs-Warlord fighting in Afghanistan isn't
> terrorism, and most of the Iraqi Resistance isn't either,

What Al Quaeda and the Taliban do is terrorism.  What the
Northern Alliance does to stop them is not terrorism.  When did
the Northern alliance massacre civilians in territories it
controlled, launch car bombs in market places, and so on and so
forth?

> and I'd have expected that a staunch anti-communist like
> James wouldn't mind people shooting at Russian soldiers even
> though they're no longer Soviets.

These guys prefer to shoot at children.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     qeXTtjIfy8jstPbn09dKRXMxQSVaG2t3WybJOFOP
     4YnrjDudDubJLxMto2Ny0HL2d18PndoDUq+pjm+kd





From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 19 07:23:09 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:23:09 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F39twD43oFLaq00031f9a@hotmail.com>

>On 18 Oct 2004 at 15:31, Tyler Durden wrote:
> > Aside from that, your posts are completely saturated with the
> > "They're more evil than we are therefore it's OK for us to be
> > fuckin them over" logic.
>
>They are more evil that we are, as demonstrated by their
>propensity to kill all sorts of people, including each other,
>and including us. This forces us to do something violent.
>Imposing democracy on Iraq at gunpoint was probably a bad idea,
>but it was selected as the option that would raise the least
>objection.  Any more effectual measure is going to piss you lot
>off even more.  A more effectual measure and considerably less
>costly measure would have been to confiscate Iraq's and Saudi
>Arabia's oil reserves, and ethnically cleanse all male muslims
>above the age of puberty from the oil bearing areas.  This
>democracy stuff did not work in Haiti and things look
>considerably more difficult, and more expensive, in Iraq.

Well, let's dig into this. It appears on the surface to harbour a lot of the 
common myths shared in the hallowed corridors of DC.

Most Cypherpunks would agree that free markets are a good thing. Basically, 
if you leave people alone, they'll figure out how to meet the needs that are 
out in there and, in the process, get a few of the goodies available to us 
as vapors on this world. I assume you would agree to this.

That said, the question is whether American interference abroad has helped 
or possibly greatly hindered the formation of free markets. And I think the 
verdict is beocmming increasingly clear that American interference hurts 
free markets. Of course, there are the arguable exceptions: Post-war Germany 
and Japan, but these countries not only had a strong history of free markets 
at the time they both ahd large corporations and a rapidly modernizing 
infrastrcture.

In developing markets the US track record is terrible. The more we interfere 
and set up puppet governments and petty dictators, the result has always 
been the near elimination of any kind of real modern economy.

More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out or prevented 
from influencing have been modernizing rapidly, the most obvious example is 
China and Vietnam. Bolivia is interesting to watch.

One could in fact argue that the faster a country removes our shadowy 
"help", the sooner they can get on their own two feet and start developing. 
In this light, US influence starts to look like it's on some levels designed 
to quash the local development of modern industrialization and perhaps this 
is no suprise: We don't really want the competition.

In the long run this is unsustainable, and can only lead to even bigger 
September 11ths.  under there and examine the substance of what he's saying.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 19 07:34:06 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:34:06 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F10dZjfNLnlyg00004563@hotmail.com>

Bill Stewart wrote...

>Unfortunately, the primary algorithm seems to work like this:
>- Somebody puts a name on some list because it seems like a
>         good idea at the time, and there's no due process required.
>- Everybody copies lists from everybody else,
>         with minimal attempt to track where the information comes from.
>- Database corruption propagates rapidly, so anybody who's on
>         any list because of political corruption like Neo-Cointelpro
>         stays there because of database corruption.

And if we add local "intelligence" in the form of allowing airport screeners 
to act on their hunches, then there's one more step:

Airport Screener didn't get her child-support check from the ex and as a 
result is saving her crack for lunchtime...frisks well-heeled and arguably 
spolied white-guy with a little 'tude who proceeds to give said screener 
some 'feedback'...Airport screener figures she'll brighten up her own 
morning and prevents said white-guy from flying: "Hey, something told me 
this guy was trouble, so fire me and I'll work for Starbucks instead."

One day, I may be willing to subscribe to the commonly held cypherpunk 
belief that any law from a government is basically a bad thing, but AFAIC we 
don't need to get that far yet. When laws boil down the decision-in-a-vacuum 
and whim of the enforcer, Break out the Zombie patriots.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 19 10:21:06 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:21:06 -0400
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
Message-ID: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>

>War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of peace.  The 
>question is where the war is to be fought - in America, or elsewhere.  War 
>within America will surely destroy freedom.

So. Why don't we see terrorist attacks in Sweden, or Switzerland, or Belgium 
or any other country that doesn't have any military or Imperliast presence 
in the middle east? Is this merely a coincidence?

What I strongly suspect is that if we were not dickin' around over there in 
their countries, the threat of terrorism on US soil would diminish to very 
nearly zero. In other words, we DO have a choice of peace, and our choice 
was to pass on it.

-TD

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700
>
>     --
>Thomas Shaddack:
> >  > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who
> >  > > knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a
> >  > > ground to blacklist *you*.
>
>James A. Donald:
> >  > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people
> >  > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)
>
>Bill Stewart
> > More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being
> > accused of funding terrorist activities.
>
>When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money
>laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but
>they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly,
>even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly,
>for if they stopped them from doing business there would be
>nothing to steal.
>
>When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek
>to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using
>repressive measures against everyone.
>
>We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't
>sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists
>are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the
>more he looks like a patriot.
>
>When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to
>kill and destroy.  Lashing out an external enemy, real or
>imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal
>enemies.  We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice
>between war against external or internal enemies.   Clearly,
>war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.
>
>War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of
>peace.  The question is where the war is to be fought - in
>America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely destroy
>freedom.
>
>What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front
>and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as
>big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a
>threat as Middle Eastern Muslims.
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD
>      4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From measl at mfn.org  Tue Oct 19 11:40:23 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:40:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Humor] [TSCM-L] secret agent man!!! (fwd)
Message-ID: <20041019134009.U92842@ubzr.zsa.bet>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:02:53 -0700
From: A.Lizard <alizard at ecis.com>
Reply-To: TSCM-L at yahoogroups.com
To: TSCM-L at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TSCM-L] secret agent man!!!




>Sad state of spying
>Intelligence vets are still musing over Michael Kostiw, whose reported
>shoplifting forced his withdrawal this month as the CIA's prospective
>executive director. But what dismays the spooks most isn't the ethics or
>the propriety of the case--it's that Kostiw had served as a case officer
>for 10 years and still couldn't manage to shoplift a package of bacon
>without getting caught in a Northern Virginia market. Says one old spy:
>"It's a perfect metaphor for the sorry state of the CIA"

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/041025/whispers/25whisplead.htm

While I don't think this the place for political debate, I think the state
of US intelligence services is something of interest to everyone on the list.

I only hope this guy hasn't been training people.

A.Lizard
--
member The Internet Society (ISOC), The HTML Writers Guild.
"Feudal societies go broke. These top-heavy crony capitalists of the Enron
ilk are nowhere near so good at business as they think they are." Bruce
Sterling
Personal Website http://www.ecis.com/~alizard
business Website http://reptilelabs.com
backup address (if ALL else fails) alizard at gmail.com
PGP 8.0 key available by request or keyserver. Download PGP from:
http://www.pgpi.org for e-mail privacy.
Disaster prep info: http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/y2k.html
***Looking for INTELLIGENT new technology public policy alternatives?***
                  http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/technology.html






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========================================================
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    "In a multitude of counselors there is strength"

     To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit:
	   http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L

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 It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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From ocorrain at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 19 05:09:20 2004
From: ocorrain at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tiarn=E1n_=D3_Corr=E1in?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:09:20 +0200
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <1098136378.1451.7.camel@daft> (Steve Furlong's message of
  "18 	Oct 2004 17:52:58 -0400")
References: <4173AD89.18179.7B2C37@localhost> 
  <0410182112090.11608@somehost.domainz.com> 
  <1098136378.1451.7.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <m2k6tmhpu7.fsf@cascade.local>

Steve Furlong <sfurlong at acmenet.net> writes:
>> [1] The defensive aspect here is to allow the attackers to attack from 
>> distance beyond the reach of the other side's active defenses, thus not 
>> risking anything more than a piece of overpriced electronics.
>
> If some asshole is coming at you with a knife, it's cowardly to shoot
> him before he's in range? Dumbass.

Except that ol' Sodom didn't come for you...




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 19 14:21:36 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:21:36 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of 
> > peace. The question is where the war is to be fought - in 
> > America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely 
> > destroy freedom.

Tyler Durden wrote:
> So. Why don't we see terrorist attacks in Sweden, or 
> Switzerland, or Belgium or any other country that doesn't 
> have any military or Imperliast presence in the middle east? 
> Is this merely a coincidence?

In fact we have seen Islamic terrorist attacks in Sweden and 
Switzerland, particularly Switzerland.  Don't know about 
Belgium.

Doubtless keeping US troops in Saudi Arabia was a bad idea,
since it enabled Saudis to blame the evil of their government
on the US, rather than themselves, but Bin Laden's indictment
not only mentions US troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the
reconquest of Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah law. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     /ocDcxC+cUo2DuIZWmQPcxCdoBKzBv64t/JGFD/n
     4HbLfMXzuc00iivMRHO8xd9PCitZawSai9lJGyfi3




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 19 14:41:49 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:41:49 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <E1CJz4F-0002Pq-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <4174E574.25619.1BDB9AD@localhost>
Message-ID: <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>

    --
On 19 Oct 2004 at 14:46, John Young wrote:
> you appear not to understand that much of current US military 
> doctrine is aimed at terrorizing enemy forces, en masse, into 
> submission, not merely courageously killing each combatant, 
> mano a mano.
>
> Carpet bombing, bunker-busting, cruise missles, stealth 
> attacks, artillery barrages, and tactical and strategic 
> attacks with overwhelming forces in multiples of the opposing 
> force, the so-called "shock and awe," are intended to 
> demoralize and terrify the opposition including civilian 
> supporters. These attacks require little or no courage to 
> execute, for most are accomplished with stand-off or 
> remote-controlled platforms, guided by long-radar, GPS, and 
> satellites, systems operated by clean-uniformed technicians 
> who don't bear personal arms, even take showers daily and 
> watch TV of their carnage for entertainment.

If only it were true.  That is why I recommend readily 
achievable goals, like stealing the oil, rather than goals that 
require direct involvment mano a mano.

But in reality, the US government is pursuing goals such as 
"building democracy" that require Americans to walk the streets 
of Baghdad, a daily exercise of tremendous courage.

Here is my prescription for winning the war on terrorism

We SHOULD rely on shock and awe, administered by men in white 
coats far from the scene.

A number of governments are disturbingly tolerant of terror. 
Usually they are only tolerant of terror against their non 
Islamic subjects, and disapprove of external terror committed 
by their subjects against outsiders, but the two cannot readily 
be separated.  One leads to the other.

The US government should expose and condemn these objectionable 
practices, subvert moderately objectionable regimes, and 
annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The pentagon should 
deprive moderately objectionable regimes of economic resources, 
by stealing their oil, destroying their water systems, and 
cutting off their trade and population movements with the 
outside world.

Syria should suffer annihilation, Iran subversion, Sudan some 
combination of annihilation and subversion, Saudi Arabia and 
similar less objectionable regimes should suffer confiscation 
of oil, destruction of water resources, and loss of contact 
with the outside world. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     e1oHDIrpt6CyLSJ0viuvD+nsJlXpjVCUxG/FZL0R
     4eteebtmUGC9WtT7zAMaOVdF81wmFCSz8fug2AQef




From jya at pipeline.com  Tue Oct 19 14:46:21 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 14:46:21 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4174E574.25619.1BDB9AD@localhost>
References: <200410190637.i9J6bhX5018080@positron.jfet.org> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041018202225.037d3b20@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <E1CJz4F-0002Pq-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

James,

I appreciate your valiant if futile effort to defend honorable
militarism, but you appear not to understand that much of 
current US military doctrine is aimed at terrorizing enemy 
forces, en masse, into submission, not merely courageously 
killing each combatant, mano a mano.

Carpet bombing, bunker-busting, cruise missles, stealth
attacks, artillery barrages, and tactical and strategic attacks
with overwhelming forces in multiples of the opposing force, 
the so-called "shock and awe," are intended to demoralize 
and terrify the opposition including civilian supporters. These
attacks require little or no courage to execute, for most are
accomplished with stand-off or remote-controlled platforms,
guided by long-radar, GPS, and satellites, systems operated
by clean-uniformed technicians who don't bear personal
arms, even take showers daily and watch TV of their
carnage for entertainment.

This contrasts with the special forces which do aim at
small scale, precision killing, and which does require courage.
Not much of that goes on, way too cheap for the military-
industrial empire which treasures big iron, gigantic iron,
humongous iron, unbelievably expensive metal, costing
millions of dollars per kill, rather imaginary deaths in the
Cold War manner.

Don't mistake the language and literature of war for
the real thing. You find yourself 100 yards from a bomb
blast, and your organs go into shutdown from the
concussion, yours vision blurs, your limbs won't
function, you shit and piss your britches, then another
bomb falls 50 yards away and blood squirts from ears
eyes and gums due to air compression of your veins
and arties, you flop senselessly out of control and
try to cry for momma, no air in your lungs, skin turning
red from heat, then a third bomb hits 25 yards away
and your body begins to come apart from the blast
or being scythed by shrapnel -- if your head doesn't
leave the carcass, it'll be fried by the metal helmet,
your skin will sizzle, boiling blood will spray out
of all your orifices, but you'll not get to appreciate this
sacrifice for your country, you'll be chatting with
your maker, the bodybag team scraping you memorial
into the barbage bag, heading for the flag-draped
tube.

Back in the control room which directed the friendly
fire, the boys and girls are whooping at the bomb
pattern, high-fiving and fist knocking at the perfect
fit of thinking machine and killing machine, no risk 
to the comfy killers manning the mouses, just like 
the gameboys taught.




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 19 13:52:45 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:52:45 -0400
Subject: CFP 2005 PKI R&D Workshop - Deadline soon
Message-ID: <p06110439bd9b2f102223@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 19 14:27:05 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:27:05 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
    real money
Message-ID: <p06110452bd9b36d7f4bc@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 19 14:27:51 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:27:51 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
    real money)
Message-ID: <p06110450bd9b3661d8fc@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 19 14:29:09 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:29:09 -0400
Subject: Crypto blogs?
Message-ID: <p06110453bd9b37731941@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 19 14:47:33 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:33 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
     real money
In-Reply-To: <p06110452bd9b36d7f4bc@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p06110452bd9b36d7f4bc@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <p0611046cbd9b3bc51cb1@[66.149.49.5]>

At 5:27 PM -0400 10/19/04, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>David

Somebody named David, apparently...

;-)

Shoot me now,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Tue Oct 19 11:25:25 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:25:25 +0100
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41755C15.7000308@gmx.co.uk>

Tyler Durden wrote:
> So. Why don't we see terrorist attacks in Sweden, or Switzerland, or 
> Belgium or any other country that doesn't have any military or 
> Imperliast presence in the middle east? Is this merely a coincidence?
> 
> What I strongly suspect is that if we were not dickin' around over there 
> in their countries, the threat of terrorism on US soil would diminish to 
> very nearly zero. In other words, we DO have a choice of peace, and our 
> choice was to pass on it.
TBH the UK *did* have a major terrorist threat for decades - because we 
were dicking around in *their* country :)




From iang at systemics.com  Tue Oct 19 13:14:50 2004
From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:14:50 +0100
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <417575BA.8090205@systemics.com>

R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/3753886.stm>

>  US scientists have discovered that every desktop printer has a signature
> style that it invisibly leaves on all the documents it produces.

I don't think this is new - I'm pretty sure it was
published about 6 or 7 years back as a technique.

iang




From isn at c4i.org  Tue Oct 19 19:40:06 2004
From: isn at c4i.org (InfoSec News)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [ISN] NZ jails Aussie bank hacker
Message-ID: <mailman.1049.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,11087415%5E15331%5E%5Enbv%5E15306%2D15318,00.html

Amanda Hodge
OCTOBER 16, 2004

AN Australian IT whiz who stole $2.15 million after hacking into the
New Zealand Health Ministry's bank account and then offered to brief
the department on the weaknesses in its computer security system was
yesterday jailed for three years.

With university degrees in science and mathematics, an MBA and years
of international computer experience, John Denison, 49, cruised into a
senior job with the NZ Health Ministry in March.

But in six months of service, in which he headed a national
meningococcal B vaccination program, Denison tried unsuccessfully five
times to crack the ministry's computer banking system.

On his final attempt, in late September, he found fleeting success,
hacking into the system and redirecting $2.15 million bound for
doctors and medical laboratories to his own bank account, which he set
up with a false passport and driver's licence in the name of Alan
Bennett.

Denison tried to use almost $800,000 as a down payment on a luxury
apartment overlooking Sydney's Hyde Park before he was caught.

He had been planning to return to Sydney to be near his critically ill
sister but confessed to the thefts and passport fraud shortly after
several laboratories rang the ministry to complain about the missing
money.

All the money has since been recovered.

Wellington District Court judge Robert Kerr permanently suppressed
details of how Denison hacked into the system. The crime was a gross
abuse of trust that was partly motivated by a desire to maintain a
certain quality of life, Judge Kerr said.

Denison's lawyer, Greg King, argued the offence had arisen out of
"something of a mid-life crisis" because his client's annual income
had plunged from $200,000 to $103,000 when he took the new job. But
Denison had also been under extreme financial pressure, supporting an
acutely deaf and depressed brother, a sister who was still in hospital
after suffering a brain aneurism in July, and also paying child
maintenance.

Yesterday, Denison's NSW-based former wife said she and her three
children were devastated by the outcome but were trying to keep the
news from Denison's brother and sister, who were too ill to withstand
the trauma.

Mr King said the Health Ministry had acted arrogantly by refusing an
offer by a penitent Denison to talk them through the security gaps in
its system.

Crown prosecutor Cherie Clarke said the ministry did not want or need
Denison's help.



_________________________________________
Open Source Vulnerability Database (OSVDB) Everything is Vulnerable -
http://www.osvdb.org/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From isn at c4i.org  Tue Oct 19 19:40:22 2004
From: isn at c4i.org (InfoSec News)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [ISN] 2-Fingerprint Border ID System Called Inadequate
Message-ID: <mailman.1050.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43276-2004Oct18.html

By Robert O'Harrow and Jr. Scott Higham
Washington Post Staff Writers
October 19, 2004

Terrorists who alter their fingerprints have about an even chance of
slipping past U.S. border watch-list checks because the government is
using a two-fingerprint system instead of one that relies on all 10
prints, a lawmaker said in a letter he made public yesterday to
Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge.

Rep. Jim Turner (D-Tex.) wrote that a study by researchers at Stanford
University concluded the two-finger system "is no more than 53 percent
effective in matching fingerprints with poor image quality against the
government's biometric terrorist watch-list." Turner said the system
falls far short of keeping the country secure.

"It's going to be a coin toss as to whether we can identify
terrorists," Turner, the ranking member of the House Select Committee
on Homeland Security, said in an interview yesterday. "It's a 50-50
chance, and that's not good enough."

Turner's Oct. 15 letter comes as government officials supervising the
burgeoning border security system, known as US-VISIT, have been
touting their use of fingerprints for identifying people crossing the
border and checking them against watch lists of suspected terrorists.

The US-VISIT program aims to create a "virtual border" using computer
networks, databases, fingerprints and other biometric identifiers. The
program requires foreign visitors to register their names before
traveling to the United States and have their fingerprints checked
when they arrive and depart. Officials estimate the system could cost
up to $10 billion and take a decade to build.

The border security program is relying on technology first developed
for a program at the former Immigration and Naturalization Service
called IDENT. Government officials have known for years that IDENT did
not work well with the identification system used by the Justice
Department, a 10-fingerprint system called the Integrated Automated
Fingerprint Identification System. That system is known for producing
good results, even with poor-quality fingerprint images, Turner's
letter said.

But homeland security officials have told Congress they decided to use
the IDENT system for the first phase of US-VISIT as a way to quickly
improve security at the borders, and move to a 10-fingerprint system
later. "It was a logistical issue we had to deal with," said Robert A.
Mocny, deputy director of US-VISIT. "It will get better. . . . It's a
matter of what we can do right now."

Turner's letter said the Department of Homeland Security ignored
numerous warnings from the "government's top biometric scientists"
that the "two-fingerprint system could not accurately perform watch
list searches and the ten-fingerprint system was far preferable."

The letter quotes Stanford researcher Lawrence M. Wein, who said his
study found that at best, with a software fix, the two-finger system
would properly identify only about three of four people. Two weeks
ago, Wein told the Homeland Security Committee that the "implications
of our findings are disturbing."

Turner accused homeland security officials of failing to be "more
forthcoming" about the limitations of their approach. Turner asked
Ridge to direct homeland security officials to "preserve all documents
and electronic communications" relating to their decision on
fingerprints.

"I understand your desire to deploy biometric screening at our borders
as quickly as possible," Turner said in his letter. "But more than
three years after the 9/11 attacks, we have invested more than $700
million in an entry-exit system that cannot reliably do what the
Department so often said it would: Use a biometric watch-list to keep
known terrorists out of the country."

A spokesman for the Republican-controlled Homeland Security Committee,
Ken Johnson, said the release of Turner's letter was driven by
election-year politics. Johnson acknowledged that there are "some
concerns" with the current system, but he said US-VISIT continues to
evolve. "In a perfect world, where money is not an issue, and people
wouldn't mind spending countless hours or days at the border, the
10-fingerprint system would be preferable. But that's not reality,"
Johnson said. "They're playing politics with some very sensitive
issues."




_________________________________________
Open Source Vulnerability Database (OSVDB) Everything is Vulnerable -
http://www.osvdb.org/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Tue Oct 19 19:04:46 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 22:04:46 -0400
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <417575BA.8090205@systemics.com>
References: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]> 	
  <417575BA.8090205@systemics.com>
Message-ID: <1098237886.9165.0.camel@daft>

On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 16:14, Ian Grigg wrote:
> R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/3753886.stm>
> 
> >  US scientists have discovered that every desktop printer has a signature
> > style that it invisibly leaves on all the documents it produces.
> 
> I don't think this is new - I'm pretty sure it was
> published about 6 or 7 years back as a technique.

I think you're thinking of color copiers.




From isn at c4i.org  Tue Oct 19 23:41:32 2004
From: isn at c4i.org (InfoSec News)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:41:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [ISN] Worldwide Phishing Attacks May Stem from Few Sources
Message-ID: <mailman.1051.1575948427.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1679953,00.asp

By Dennis Fisher
October 19, 2004

Research from an e-mail security provider suggests that a handful of
people are responsible for the vast majority of the phishing attacks
on the Internet and the perpetrators are using a rotating series of
zombie networks to launch them.

Researchers at CipherTrust Inc. analyzed more than four million
e-mails collected from the company's customers during the first two
weeks of October and found that nearly a third of all of the zombie
machines sending the phishing messages are based in the United States.
That's twice as many as the 16 percent that are found in South Korea.

However, these findings do not mean that these attacks are originating
from inside these countries. The global nature of the Internet allows
attackers anywhere in the world to compromise machines in any
location. In fact, many experts believe that the majority of phishers
are in some way connected to organized crime groups in Russia or
Eastern Europe and that most such attacks begin there.

The most surprising conclusion of the research is that the attackers
sending out the phishing messages are using zombie networks of only
about 1,000 PCs.

"That's a pretty small bot network for the volume of stuff that these
guys are doing," said Dmitri Alperovitch, the research engineer at
Atlanta-based CipherTrust Inc. who conducted the study. "But the trick
is that they rotate to a different set of compromised machines each
day. They don't keep going to the same ones each time."

Crackers for years have been accumulating large networks of machines
compromised with small programs that give them the ability to control
the PCs remotely. They routinely sell or trade access to the networks
to others in the cracker underground and the PCs typically are used
either for launching DDoS (distributed denial of service attacks).

But as authorities began cracking down on spammers in recent years,
the spammers have begun relying on these networks to send out their
messages, too. Now, phishers have gotten into the game.

Alperovitch said that there are fewer than five operators in control
of the zombie networks that he identified in his research. And, even
though they're generating thousands of fraudulent e-mails every day,
their output was still a tiny fraction.less than one percent--of the
four million messages CipherTrust examined.

Phishers seem to be concentrating their efforts on a few high-profile
targets, as well. In the sample CipherTrust looked at, 54 percent of
the phishing messages used CitiGroup's Citibank name to entice
recipients. Another 13 percent use Citigroup Global Markets Inc.'s
Smith Barney's brand and eBay Inc. is the victim in about four percent
of the scams.



_________________________________________
Open Source Vulnerability Database (OSVDB) Everything is Vulnerable -
http://www.osvdb.org/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 20 04:31:16 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:31:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>
References: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> ... but Bin Laden's indictment
> not only mentions US troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the
> reconquest of Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
> Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah law.

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?  The US can go
after BL for not following US [constitutional] law, so why can't he come
after us for not following Shariah (or any other) law?

This is but one of the many fatal flaws in the Bush Doctrine of
nation-building.

>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From sunder at sunder.net  Wed Oct 20 03:32:23 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:32:23 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>
References: <4174E574.25619.1BDB9AD@localhost>
  <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410200620310.8042@silkworth.sunder.net>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> Here is my prescription for winning the war on terrorism
> 
> We SHOULD rely on shock and awe, administered by men in white 
> coats far from the scene.

<SNIP> 

> The US government should expose and condemn these objectionable 
> practices, subvert moderately objectionable regimes, and 
> annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The pentagon should 
> deprive moderately objectionable regimes of economic resources, 
> by stealing their oil, destroying their water systems, and 
> cutting off their trade and population movements with the 
> outside world.
> 
> Syria should suffer annihilation, Iran subversion, Sudan some 
> combination of annihilation and subversion, Saudi Arabia and 
> similar less objectionable regimes should suffer confiscation 
> of oil, destruction of water resources, and loss of contact 
> with the outside world. 

I see.  I'm sure that Dubbya has his own agenda filled with Shoulds, as
does Bin Ladin, as did Lenin, as did Hitler, as did Nero, as do you.  
Each saw (or see) their views as the way to Utopia.  Trouble is, which one
of you megalomaniacs is/was right?

Further to the point, reality is, and what clearly "should" and makes
sense to to you, clearly "doesn't" to another.  The only difference
between you and the others above is that you lack the power to bend
reality to your whims, and IMHO, that is a very good thing.  It is sad the
the above list contained megalomaniacs who did possess that power and used
it to cause great misery to others, and had to be removed from inflicting
their whims on the world at great expense.  Perhaps in a couple of weeks,
US Citizens will vote one of those out the list as he's already done
plenty of damage in the last four years, and save us another miserable 
four years.

So yes, perhaps, in the fine tradition of what should be instead of what
is, you, sir, should go fuck yourself.



----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 04:59:37 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:59:37 -0400
Subject: [ISN] 2-Fingerprint Border ID System Called Inadequate
Message-ID: <p0611040abd9c0399f303@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 04:59:48 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:59:48 -0400
Subject: [ISN] NZ jails Aussie bank hacker
Message-ID: <p06110409bd9c0376ead4@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 05:00:23 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:00:23 -0400
Subject: [ISN] Worldwide Phishing Attacks May Stem from Few Sources
Message-ID: <p0611040bbd9c03c3fcf4@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 20 07:32:03 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:32:03 -0400
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
Message-ID: <BAY24-F3uevz176RbFG0001105d@hotmail.com>

Well, when push comes to shove I have to admit Mr Donald doesn't mince 
words. Guess that's what Cypherpunks is for!

However...

>The US government should expose and condemn these objectionable
>practices, subvert moderately objectionable regimes, and
>annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The pentagon should
>deprive moderately objectionable regimes of economic resources,
>by stealing their oil, destroying their water systems, and
>cutting off their trade and population movements with the
>outside world.

As was stated elesewhere, there is sfirst of all the problem of -who- 
determines the meaning of objectionable. Is it the latest DC regime? You 
make it seem like you espouse a philosophy that makes it easy and obvious to 
see what's objectionable.

More than that, however, this may be completely self-defeating. Most 
governments are not static entities. Some will evolve or die via relatively 
Darwinian processes, and interference really ends up being self-defeating, 
or possibly far worse.

I won't belabor my favorite example of China--Vietnam--Cambodia, but it's 
clear to me things could have been completely different had the US not 
espoused blatantly aggressive policies towards China in particular. In this 
context a very strong case can be made that the US caused the Khmer Rouge to 
come to power, precisely by performing in a way similar to what you espouse. 
We also had opportunities to ally with China early on, and let's remember we 
were allies with Ho Chi Min during WWII. But all we did is blindly pursue a 
policy that ended up devliering precisely OPPOSITE to what you would seem to 
espouse. And we're doing the same thing in the middle east.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Wed Oct 20 10:46:42 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:46:42 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <41755C15.7000308@gmx.co.uk>
References: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com> 
  <41755C15.7000308@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041020104251.037d1e10@pop.idiom.com>

At 11:25 AM 10/19/2004, Dave Howe wrote:
>TBH the UK *did* have a major terrorist threat for decades -
>because we were dicking around in *their* country :)

Do you mean the terrorists who raised their funding in
bars in Boston and San Francisco?  They haven't been
doing much active terror lately, though they still
try to raise funds in the bars on Geary Street.

The Bush Administration says that they'll go bomb any country
that harbors anti-US terrorists, but if the UK felt the
same way and bombed Boston I bet they'd be a bit upset.
(Bombing San Francisco wouldn't bother the Bush League as much.)




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 20 11:40:18 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:40:18 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>
Message-ID: <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US troops 
> > in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of Spain, the 
> > massacre committed by the crusaders in Jerusalem, and the 
> > failure of Americans to obey Shariah law.

J.A. Terranson
> Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?  The 
> US can go after BL for not following US [constitutional] law, 
> so why can't he come after us for not following Shariah (or 
> any other) law?

But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.  The US 
goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin Laden goes 
after us for not accepting second class citizenship under
Muslim rule. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     TwiD9R90EdvKqsjuevEp63cmJRnD0ia7+K9+fllS
     4NIKSw8Ax0afFEysgsliifJiwl/5SxotTzQc3ZPe3




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 20 11:50:25 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:50:25 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <0410201418320.0@somehost.domainz.com>
References: <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>
Message-ID: <41765101.28265.564925@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > The US government should expose and condemn these 
> > objectionable practices, subvert moderately objectionable 
> > regimes, and annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The 
> > pentagon should deprive moderately objectionable regimes of 
> > economic resources, by stealing their oil, destroying their 
> > water systems, and cutting off their trade and population 
> > movements with the outside world.

Thomas Shaddack
> Meanwhile, the world will get pissed, Arabian Bloc will 
> finally agree on the concept of Monetary Jihad and switch 
> from dollar-per-barrel to euro-per-barrel and later perhaps 
> even to a gold-backed Islamic Dinar.

If the US has Saudi and Iraqi oil reserves, this would not be 
any big problem.

> Arabs have difficulties to agree on something, but give them 
> an enemy and they flock together

Like they flocked together over Israel?  They unite only in 
words, not deeds.  Look at the civil war now going on Iraq. The
Iraqi insurgency has not united, but rather are busy killing
each other.


> Other countries will stop caring about unilateral embargos 
> and will trade with the affected areas anyway, to great 
> dismay of American planners.

I had in mind not paper embargos which no one ever observes 
anyway, least of all those proclaiming them, but rather the
mining of ports, and key roads at the borders, the destruction
of airports, planes, ships, and vehicles travelling on those
roads. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     PqA9fV/rkBDLiQiY7Z7tvI+4ZspciWsOt6Ks6eJs
     4QCdWD0mLhMSVH+y9iESXjeIvzTOTeI0fTqxiC5zy




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 20 12:00:47 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:00:47 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F3uevz176RbFG0001105d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4176536F.23839.5FC7E7@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > The US government should expose and condemn these 
> > objectionable practices, subvert moderately objectionable 
> > regimes, and annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The 
> > pentagon should deprive moderately objectionable regimes of 
> > economic resources, by stealing their oil, destroying their 
> > water systems, and cutting off their trade and population 
> > movements with the outside world.

Tyler Durden
> As was stated elesewhere, there is sfirst of all the problem 
> of -who- determines the meaning of objectionable.

As I said, an Islamic regime is objectionable if it tolerates 
terror against non islamic minorities, thus creating, perhaps 
unintentionally, an environment that facilitates terror against 
external infidels - that is to say, terror against me and 
people like me.

> In this context a very strong case can be made that the US 
> caused the Khmer Rouge to come to power, precisely by 
> performing in a way similar to what you espouse.

That "case" is a nutty rationalization put forward by the 
former fans of the Khmer Rouge to rationalize their bad 
conduct.

The Khmer Rouge came to power in the same way communists did in 
Laos: because the North Vietnamese created them armed them, and 
then engaged in major military intervention to bring them to 
power. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Hc9DKz2cMbczPC73mgjALFsceb/aslSBwH9Id4Ng
     4ySC7lfzG04xzWAMEFTVW74ePloZsF8IukGPBMSwD




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 20 12:10:52 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:10:52 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410201303360.25380@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <41743646.17407.2914EE7@localhost>
Message-ID: <417655CC.696.690339@localhost>

    --
On 20 Oct 2004 at 13:05, Sunder wrote:
> Re: Gitmo
>
> And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, 
> interrogator, and prisoner to make sure that the POW's 
> weren't tortured?

Lots of murderous terrorists have been released from Guatanamo, 
and in the nearly all cases the most serious of their 
complaints make it sound like a beach resort, except for the 
fact that they could not leave.

A few have more serious complaints.  Either they are lying or, 
those who say they were well treated apart from being held 
captive are lying. It is hard to believe that people like 
Slimane Hadj Abderrahmane (who after release announced his 
intention to resume terrorist activities and that he would
attempt to murder his hosts who lobbied to get him release) are
lying to cover up torture by the US army.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Meu5wR4zsEnwQaSoYnwnxQo72h782HS6ulS1SVk4
     4T0/nieL1lPNTnXWv1TDyaVzHPZZ4tnKN/PpnAawT




From sunder at sunder.net  Wed Oct 20 10:05:01 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:05:01 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41743646.17407.2914EE7@localhost>
References: <41743646.17407.2914EE7@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410201303360.25380@silkworth.sunder.net>

Re: Gitmo

And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, interrogator, 
and prisoner to make sure that the POW's weren't tortured?

Wow, you are good...  or phrased another way, what brand of crack are you 
smokin' 'cause the rest of us thin it's some really good shit and would 
like to have some too...

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> I expected them to be KEPT in Guantanamo.
> 
> Furthermore, they were not tortured, though they should have
> been. 




From rsw at jfet.org  Wed Oct 20 11:27:03 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:27:03 -0500
Subject: test
Message-ID: <20041020182701.GA28172@jfet.org>

This is a test.  Please disregard.  [1]

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From rsw at jfet.org  Wed Oct 20 11:37:40 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:37:40 -0500
Subject: test [2]
Message-ID: <20041020183740.GA20206@positron.jfet.org>

This is another test; hopefully it's the last one.

Sorry for the trouble.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From rsw at jfet.org  Wed Oct 20 11:39:13 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:39:13 -0500
Subject: test [3]
Message-ID: <20041020183913.GB20206@positron.jfet.org>

This is another test.  Please disregard.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From shaddack at ns.arachne.cz  Wed Oct 20 05:45:41 2004
From: shaddack at ns.arachne.cz (Thomas Shaddack)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:45:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>
References: <4174E574.25619.1BDB9AD@localhost>
  <417527AD.4552.2C06A3D@localhost>
Message-ID: <0410201418320.0@somehost.domainz.com>

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> The US government should expose and condemn these objectionable 
> practices, subvert moderately objectionable regimes, and 
> annihilate more objectionable regimes.  The pentagon should 
> deprive moderately objectionable regimes of economic resources, 
> by stealing their oil, destroying their water systems, and 
> cutting off their trade and population movements with the 
> outside world.

Meanwhile, the world will get pissed, Arabian Bloc will finally agree on 
the concept of Monetary Jihad and switch from dollar-per-barrel to 
euro-per-barrel and later perhaps even to a gold-backed Islamic Dinar. 
Arabs have difficulties to agree on something, but give them an enemy and 
they flock together (not entirely unlike Americans) and make decisions.

Once the switch is done, there will not be the necessity to keep so high 
dollar reserves anymore. The USD will lose most of its market power and 
gradually becomes Just Another Currency.

Other countries will stop caring about unilateral embargos and will trade 
with the affected areas anyway, to great dismay of American planners. US 
will attempt to retaliate and cut trade with the offenders. However, the 
world is big and patents on embargoed goods aren't usually respected in 
the affected areas. Also don't forget that you foolishly offshored most 
manufacturing years ago, so patents or not, the rest of the world will 
keep buying Taiwan and China and Malaysia and Japan. And Ireland-made 
CPUs. The transnational corporations won't have the incentive to respect 
US-imposed rules, as they will cut into their profit; the ones that didn't 
made it yet will move outside of the influence of US law, with the 
corresponding impact on US tax revenue and the ability to finance further 
military adventures. Hey - even students are already increasingly choosing 
non-US universities and scientists are in process of moving conferences 
elsewhere, in long term influencing your ability of weapon research, 
further weakening you military-wise. Your policies are signing your own 
demise, and your beloved free market will stab your own back.

Meanwhile, the Empire will cut itself off the world, in a failed attempt 
to punish the world for non-compliance.

What will you do then? You can't bomb everyone. The world needs you much 
less than you like to think.

Now, when you see PNAC won't work, what's your revised plan?




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Wed Oct 20 14:36:20 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 20 Oct 2004 17:36:20 -0400
Subject: 13yo arrested for kiddie porn
Message-ID: <1098308180.11194.9.camel@daft>

First saw the story linked from Drudge, then googled up a handful of
stories:

http://www.kptv.com/global/story.asp?s=2435549&ClientType=Printable
Boy,13. arrested on child porn charges

10-15-04

TACOMA, Wash. -- A 13-year-old Lacey boy is accused of child pornography
by taking pictures of himself and posting them on the Internet.

The boy was arrested Wednesday by investigators from the State Patrol's
Missing and Exploited Children task force. They also seized three
computers.

The boy is being held in juvenile detention without bail. Prosecutors
expect to file charges by Monday.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1246411/posts
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20041015/topstories/15049.shtml




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 15:16:29 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:16:29 -0400
Subject: Technology Review: Ari Juels of RSA "Top Young Innovator" for 
  RFID Blocker Tag
Message-ID: <p06110434bd9c92e188d6@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/10-19-2004/0002287400&EDATE=>

RSA Security CEO Art Coviello Awarded Top Honors from New England Business
and Technology Association
                         

 Dr. Ari Juels of RSA Laboratories also recognized as one of the world's Top
             Young Innovators by MIT's Technology Review Magazine

    BEDFORD, Mass., Oct. 19 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- RSA Security Inc.
(Nasdaq: RSAS) today announced that it has been awarded top honors by two
leading technology organizations - the New England Business and Technology
Association (NEBATA), and the Technology Review, MIT's Magazine of Innovation.
Art Coviello, president and chief executive officer at RSA Security, was
recognized with a New England Business and Technology Award for his
significant impact in developing and deploying technologies that have
addressed critical business issues, while at the same time, contributing to
the prosperity of New England.  RSA Laboratories' director and chief
scientist, Dr. Burt Kaliski, was awarded this honor in 2003.
    "The New England Business and Technology Awards program recognizes New
England business and technology leaders who have made significant strides in
the development, deployment or utilization of technology," said Thomas
Hopcroft, president, NEBATA.  "We are proud to recognize Mr. Coviello for his
contributions to the New England business community."
    Under his direction and leadership, Coviello has been instrumental in
establishing RSA Security as an industry leader in information security,
increasing its customer base to more than 15,000 organizations around the
globe, and company revenue from $25 million in 1995, to $259 million in 2003.
Coviello is also an established authority on industry and national cyber
security issues, consumer identity protection, and necessary steps to enable
further Internet innovation.
    "I am honored to be recognized by NEBATA for our accomplishments as both
an industry-leading identity and access management solutions provider, but
also for our healthy increase in both revenue and workforce, including those
employed at our headquarters in New England," said Coviello.  "Recognition
from this prestigious organization proves that we're making great progress in
important areas, and setting a more positive tone for the information security
industry as a whole."
    In addition to Coviello's honors last week, Technology Review, MIT's
Magazine of Innovation, recently named Dr. Ari Juels, RSA Laboratories'
principal research scientist and manager of Applied Research, to the 2004 list
of the world's 100 Top Young Innovators.  Chosen by the editors of Technology
Review and an elite panel of judges, the TR100 consists of 100 individuals
under age 35 whose innovative work in technology has created a profound
impact.
    "In the five years since we began naming our annual selection of the
world's top innovators under age 35, inclusion among the TR100 has become one
of the most prestigious awards for young innovators around the world," said
David Rotman, executive editor of Technology Review.  "This year's winners are
all pioneering fascinating innovations in the fields of biomedicine, computing
and nanotechnology, and were chosen after a rigorous selection and judging
process.  The result is an elite group whose visions and inventions will shape
the future of technology."
    Dr. Juels was recognized for his key role in the development of the RSA(R)
Blocker Tag, a technology designed to enforce consumer privacy while allowing
consumers and businesses to reap the full benefits of Radio-Frequency
Identification (RFID) technology.  Dr. Juels, who completed his Ph.D. in
Computer Science at U.C. Berkeley, focuses his research at RSA Laboratories,
the research division of RSA Security, on data security, with emphases on
authentication, biometrics, electronic voting and financial cryptography.

    About The New England Business and Technology Association
    The New England Business and Technology Association, Inc. (NEBATA), is a
non-profit business association that brings together providers and users of
technology in business, education and government to foster knowledge-sharing
and business development in a professional environment.  NEBATA Programs
explore the critical business and leadership issues at the intersection of
technology and business.  Continuing series include the Leadership Roundtable,
New England Business and Technology Awards, Critical Issues Series, and unique
programs focusing on the Financial Services, Health & Life Sciences, and
Retail & Logistics industries.  These initiatives support the overall vitality
of the New England economy.

    About the Technology Review
    Technology Review, Inc., an MIT Enterprise, delivers essential information
about emerging technologies and their impact on business leaders.  Since 1998,
paid circulation for the company's magazine, Technology Review, has more than
tripled, climbing from 92,000 to 315,000.  Combined with its signature events,
newsletters, and online businesses, Technology Review reaches over two million
business leaders throughout the world each month.

    About RSA Security Inc.
    RSA Security Inc. helps organizations protect private information and
manage the identities of people and applications accessing and exchanging that
information.  RSA Security's portfolio of solutions - including identity &
access management, secure mobile & remote access, secure enterprise access,
secure transactions and consumer identity protection - are all designed to
provide the most seamless e-security experience in the market.  Our strong
reputation is built on our history of ingenuity, leadership, proven
technologies and our more than 15,000 customers around the globe.  Together
with more than 1,000 technology and integration partners, RSA Security
inspires confidence in everyone to experience the power and promise of the
Internet. For more information, please visit http://www.rsasecurity.com.
    RSA is a registered trademark of RSA Security Inc. in the United States
and/or other countries.  All other products and services mentioned are
trademarks of their respective companies.

    For more information:
     Wendy Bulawa                            Matt Buckley
     McGrath/Power Public Relations          RSA Security Inc.
     (978) 994-1447                          (781) 515-6212
     wendyba at mcgrathpower.com                mbuckley at rsasecurity.com


 SOURCE RSA Security Inc.
 Web Site: http://www.rsasecurity.com

More news from PR Newswire...

Issuers of news releases and not PR Newswire are solely responsible for the
accuracy of the content.
Terms and conditions, including restrictions on redistribution, apply.
 Copyright ) 1996-2004 PR Newswire Association LLC. All Rights Reserved.
 A United Business Media company.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 15:18:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:18:35 -0400
Subject: Certicom Hosts First Annual ECC Conference
Message-ID: <p06110430bd9c92cc83fe@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/10-20-2004/0002289069&EDATE=>

Certicom Hosts First Annual ECC Conference
                         
    Industry experts, the creators of ECC and users convene in Toronto to
    discuss best practices and growing adoption of Elliptic Curve
    Cryptography

    MISSISSAUGA, ON, Oct. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ - Certicom Corp.
(TSX: CIC), the authority for strong, efficient cryptography, today announced
it will host the Certicom ECC Conference 2004, the first-ever conference that
brings together Elliptic Curve Cryptography researchers, industry experts and
users. During the two-day conference, participants from North America, Europe
and Asia will discuss the growing adoption of ECC and share best
implementation practices and insights for future applications. The conference
begins with an evening reception on November 15 with sessions running
November 16-17 at the Four Seasons Hotel in Toronto, Canada.
    Keynote speakers include Mike Lazaridis, president and co-CEO of Research
In Motion, and Dr. Scott Vanstone, Certicom founder and EVP strategic
technology. Also participating are Norm Kern, Unisys; Dr. Jerry Krasner of
Embedded Market Forecasters; Herb Little, Research In Motion; Dr. Ralph
Merkle, Georgia Tech; and Dr. Leon Pintsov, Pitney Bowes. During the
conference, Certicom will present recognition awards to ECC creators Dr. Neal
Koblitz, University of Washington and Dr. Victor Miller, Institute for Defense
Analyses Center for Communication Research, as well as an ECC visionary award
to Dr. Walt Davis, Motorola (retired).
    ECC, which is often referred to as the next-generation public-key
cryptography system, is used in a growing number of sectors ranging from
consumer electronics, wireless devices and semiconductors to government and
financial services. Specifically, its implementations protect content,
securely transmit data and digitally sign documents. The small size of ECC is
a main driver behind its growing adoption. It provides equivalent security to
competing public-key cryptosystems but at a fraction of the size, making it
ideally suited for resource-constrained devices such as smart phones,
semiconductors and smart cards.
    Software developers, hardware engineers, and anyone responsible for
buying or implementing cryptographic systems will benefit from this conference
and the free exchange of practical ideas and real-world lessons. They also
will gain insights into future applications of ECC, including standards and
protocols.
    "This conference is a dynamic forum for ECC proponents to get together
and engage in open discussions about the technology: its roots, how it is used
today and where it's going," said Scott Vanstone. "We've pulled together a
stellar roster of the who's who in the ECC world and representatives from some
of North America's leading companies. This conference promises to advance the
understanding of ECC and accelerate its adoption."

    To register or for more information, visit
 http://www.certicom.com/conference2004/registration .

    About Certicom
    Certicom Corp. (TSX:CIC) is the authority for strong, efficient
cryptography required by software vendors and device manufacturers to embed
security in their products. Adopted by the US Government's National Security
Agency (NSA), Certicom technologies for Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC)
provide the most security per bit of any known public key scheme, making it
ideal for constrained environments. Certicom products and services are
currently licensed to more than 300 customers including Motorola, Oracle,
Research In Motion, Terayon, Texas Instruments and Unisys. Founded in 1985,
Certicom is headquartered in Mississauga, ON, Canada, with offices in Ottawa,
ON; Reston, VA; San Mateo, CA; and London, England. Visit
http://www.certicom.com .

    Certicom, Certicom Security Architecture, Certicom CodeSign, Security
Builder, Security Builder Middleware, Security Builder API, Security Builder
Crypto, Security Builder SSL, Security Builder PKI, and Security Builder GSE
are trademarks or registered trademarks of Certicom Corp. Intel is registered
trademarks of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries in the United States and
other countries. All other companies and products listed herein are trademarks
or registered trademarks of their respective holders.

    Except for historical information contained herein, this news release
contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.
Actual results may differ materially. Factors that might cause a difference
include, but are not limited to, those relating to the acceptance of mobile
and wireless devices and the continued growth of e-commerce and m-commerce,
the increase of the demand for mutual authentication in m-commerce
transactions, the acceptance of Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) technology
as an industry standard, the market acceptance of our principal products and
sales of our customer's products, the impact of competitive products and
technologies, the possibility of our products infringing patents and other
intellectual property of fourth parties, and costs of product development.
Certicom will not update these forward-looking statements to reflect events or
circumstances after the date hereof. More detailed information about potential
factors that could affect Certicom's financial results is included in the
documents Certicom files from time to time with the Canadian securities
regulatory authorities.


 SOURCE Certicom Corp.

More news from PR Newswire...

Issuers of news releases and not PR Newswire are solely responsible for the
accuracy of the content.
Terms and conditions, including restrictions on redistribution, apply.
 Copyright ) 1996-2004 PR Newswire Association LLC. All Rights Reserved.
 A United Business Media company.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 20 16:25:24 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:25:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>
References: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>
  <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041020182423.I14115@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> James A. Donald wrote:
> > > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US troops
> > > in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of Spain, the
> > > massacre committed by the crusaders in Jerusalem, and the
> > > failure of Americans to obey Shariah law.
>
> J.A. Terranson
> > Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?  The
> > US can go after BL for not following US [constitutional] law,
> > so why can't he come after us for not following Shariah (or
> > any other) law?
>
> But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.  The US
> goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin Laden goes
> after us for not accepting second class citizenship under
> Muslim rule.

No. He goes after us for the very same reason: for [our] murdering of
*hundreds of thousands* of people, both directly (Iraq) and by proxy
(Israel).

>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 15:56:50 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:56:50 -0400
Subject: Berkeley Hack Yields 1.4 Million SSNs
Message-ID: <p06110460bd9c9d35f49f@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=50900249>



Break-In At Berkeley May Have Compromised Data Of 1.4 Million Californians

State officials say it's not clear if names and Social Security numbers
were accessed or stolen but urge individuals to take precautions against
identity theft.


By Thomas  Claburn,    InformationWeek
 Oct. 20, 2004
 URL:
http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=50900249



 California state officials revealed Tuesday that in August a hacker broke
into a University of California, Berkeley, computer containing a database
with the names and Social Security numbers of some 1.4 million Californians.

 Carlos Ramos, assistant secretary at the California Health and Human
Services Agency, said the breach occurred on Aug. 1 but wasn't detected
until the end of the month. It was reported to the state Sept. 21. He
confirmed that the California Highway Patrol and the Federal Bureau of
Investigation are pursuing the incident and that the hacker has not been
found.

 He also stressed that it has not been determined whether the information
in the database on the compromised system was actually accessed or stolen.
"Really, this announcement is a precautionary measure," he says.

 The database in question contained the names, addresses, Social Security
numbers, and dates of birth of caregivers and care recipients participating
in California's In-Home Supportive Services (IHSS) program since 2001. The
data was being used in a UC Berkeley study of the effect of wages on
in-home care and was obtained with authorization from the California
Department of Social Services.

 The Social Services Department is urging IHSS participants to follow the
recommendations of the Office of Privacy Protection, which include
contacting the three major credit bureaus in order to review their credit
reports for signs of identity theft and related fraud.

 UC Berkeley officials were not immediately available for comment.

 "It's a bit ironic," says Jonathan Bingham, president of Intrusic Inc., a
security software company focused on internal threats. "The same thing
happened to UC Berkeley back in 1998. What it highlights are a couple of
factors that are inherently flawed within the industry and within the
security profile of not just UC Berkeley but all of the organizations that
are out there today."

 The university's approach to security is focused too much on keeping
unauthorized intruders out and not enough on policing the actions of users
deemed by the system to be legitimate, Bingham contends. He points to the
fact that the intruder operated for a month before being detected as a sign
that those with access need to be watched more closely.

 "UC Berkeley has a fairly open network, as most universities do," he says.
"They want to give access to as many people as possible, especially in
their research network. When you start introducing confidential information
into open network settings, you need to have a better ability to detect
compromises."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 20 19:27:44 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:27:44 -0700
Subject: stealth
Message-ID: <41771EA0.4DE9EEC7@cdc.gov>

Various ways to stego pharmaceuticals:

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/bulletins_index.html




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 20 19:36:51 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:36:51 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <20041020182423.I14115@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>
Message-ID: <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > > > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US
> > > > troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of
> > > > Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
> > > > Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah
> > > > law.

J.A. Terranson
> > > Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right? 
> > > The US can go after BL for not following US
> > > [constitutional] law, so why can't he come after us for
> > > not following Shariah (or any other) law?

James A. Donald:
> > But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.  The
> > US goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin Laden
> > goes after us for not accepting second class citizenship
> > under Muslim rule.

J.A. Terranson
> No. He goes after us for the very same reason: for [our]
> murdering of *hundreds of thousands* of people, both directly
> (Iraq) and by proxy (Israel).

What then is the reason for the murder of Afghans and Sudanese? 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     k+G5vLtBGRUbtmGjb+iAoDxnN3CsLibGbd6SVq/s
     4caCsK9kczuZW8ZoOGyjeQwD2fLxwUImuZ05kSJrK




From sunder at sunder.net  Wed Oct 20 18:27:41 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:27:41 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417655CC.696.690339@localhost>
References: <41743646.17407.2914EE7@localhost>
  <417655CC.696.690339@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410202125170.25380@silkworth.sunder.net>

I repeat:

And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, interrogator, 
and prisoner to make sure that the POW's weren't tortured?

And I add:

And you were there and witnessed the attrocities that said prisoners 
committed in order to be placed in Gitmo?

No? to both questions?  Then your comment is worthless.

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>     --
> On 20 Oct 2004 at 13:05, Sunder wrote:
> > Re: Gitmo
> >
> > And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, 
> > interrogator, and prisoner to make sure that the POW's 
> > weren't tortured?
> 
> Lots of murderous terrorists have been released from Guatanamo, 
> and in the nearly all cases the most serious of their 
> complaints make it sound like a beach resort, except for the 
> fact that they could not leave.
> 
> A few have more serious complaints.  Either they are lying or, 
> those who say they were well treated apart from being held 
> captive are lying. It is hard to believe that people like 
> Slimane Hadj Abderrahmane (who after release announced his 
> intention to resume terrorist activities and that he would
> attempt to murder his hosts who lobbied to get him release) are
> lying to cover up torture by the US army.




From mv at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 20 21:33:40 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:33:40 -0700
Subject: RF stories
Message-ID: <41773C24.47D224D8@cdc.gov>

Read a story about some college student whose plasma TV
was emitting quite a lot of 121.5 MHz.  He got a nice visit
from S&R & Sheriffs types telling him to shut his TV off.
Or else.  121.5 is a satellite-received distress freq.  Toshiba will
send him a new TV for free.

Chatting with an Aussie from work.  He was surprised that
I knew what Pine Hills, where his dad worked, was.
He told me a story about working there as a kid, painting a fence.
The wind took his and his friend's hats flying towards some
antennae, he went chasing.  The Italian supervisor was very
distressed when he returned to the fence.  Gesticulated towards
the antennae, then the ground,  went "boom".   Nice field there,
apparently,
when it was on.
I wonder if it was a 'roo or a staffer who first found this out.

I explained that the NSA was the Adversary, so We monitored Them;
he was surprised, thought it was the Russkies.  But he's a bit
of a republican-yokel.  I explained Little Sister vs. Big
Brother; who had the $ and acres of computers (etc), and that
Technical Means is Technical Means, regardless of your politics.
Also mentioned that terraserver.microsoft.com recently added
"urban area" pix, so you can see in full color the cars in your
'hood early morning last spring.  Why UBL doesn't use his sat
phone, fibre optics hurt but WiFi is great, or not, and in any case
if the CounterIntel folks at the FBI and CIA go for under $2mill
it really doesn't matter much anyway.

Got Keyloggers?




From mv at cdc.gov  Wed Oct 20 21:55:11 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:55:11 -0700
Subject: immune system diseases, TSA, false positives
Message-ID: <4177412F.78DB468F@cdc.gov>

An immune system is a great thing until it attacks the self.

In part this can be due to the limited size of recognized motifs.
For instance, the string "David Nelson" triggers the TSA goons.
If you add the phonetic-similarity recognition (required
when you transcode arabic names), the matching string-set
grows even larger.  Any reports from Dave Nelsohns out there?

At work the IT-dept-installed AV software on my PC found a virus.
Only it was an object file I had just cross-compiled, for an obscure
Freescale (nee Motorola) CPU.  It promptly notified me and
moved my binary.  Breaking my build.  Costing the company
my time, and another engineer's to resolve it.  By suppressing
the immune system, at least in one region; the cornea is readily
transplanted because the immune system can't touch it.

I suppose anyone who's pregnancy has been endangered by
Rh incompatability knows the dangers of friend or foe vigilance.
Interesting
security parable, I thought, anyway.

........

Another case: Bush campaigning in FLA.  His security parade prevents my
folks, living there, from voting, that day.   (One of many states with
early
voting, now.)  The irony overwhelms.

"Terrorists are the only true avant-garde artists because they're the
only ones who are still capable of really surprising people."
---Laurie Anderson (official artist of NASA..)




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 20 19:59:07 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:59:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>
References: <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>
  <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041020215830.Y12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> James A. Donald wrote:
> > > > > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US
> > > > > troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of
> > > > > Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
> > > > > Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah
> > > > > law.
>
> J.A. Terranson
> > > > Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
> > > > The US can go after BL for not following US
> > > > [constitutional] law, so why can't he come after us for
> > > > not following Shariah (or any other) law?
>
> James A. Donald:
> > > But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.  The
> > > US goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin Laden
> > > goes after us for not accepting second class citizenship
> > > under Muslim rule.
>
> J.A. Terranson
> > No. He goes after us for the very same reason: for [our]
> > murdering of *hundreds of thousands* of people, both directly
> > (Iraq) and by proxy (Israel).
>
> What then is the reason for the murder of Afghans and Sudanese?
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

My enemy's friend is my enemy.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 20 19:11:48 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:11:48 -0400
Subject: Get Out Of Jail Freeree
Message-ID: <p06110492bd9ccb44c066@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1020041forge1.html>



  The Smoking Gun



 Get Out Of Jail Freeree

 Indiana man charged with forging court records in escape bid


OCTOBER 20--Meet Jared Bailey. The 20-year-old Indiana man was locked up in
a Bloomington jail when he recently hatched a unique escape plot,
investigators allege. Jailed on felony forgery and theft charges--and being
held on $100,000 bond--Bailey fabricated court documents ostensibly
dropping his bond to $500, according to a probable cause affidavit. A
supposed Monroe Circuit Court order, which included the signatures of a
judge and clerk, recounted a September 29 pretrial hearing during which
Judge Douglas Bridges drastically cut Bailey's bond. However, Bailey's
gambit failed when a friend on the outside mistakenly faxed the phony court
order (and an accompanying docket sheet) to Monroe County Correctional
Center, where officials were immediately suspicious of the documents. It
surely didn't help that the material--apparently fashioned in Bailey's jail
cell--was faxed from a nearby Kinko's and, on one line of the order, the
county was spelled "MONROEROE." For his efforts, Bailey was hit with a few
more felonies and had his bond boosted to $250,000. (5 pages)


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 20 20:13:55 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:13:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [2] Re: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>
References: <41764EA2.5706.4D07E1@localhost>
  <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041020220758.I12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:


> James A. Donald wrote:
> > > > > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US
> > > > > troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of
> > > > > Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
> > > > > Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah
> > > > > law.
>
> J.A. Terranson
> > > > Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
> > > > The US can go after BL for not following US
> > > > [constitutional] law, so why can't he come after us for
> > > > not following Shariah (or any other) law?
>
> James A. Donald:
> > > But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.  The
> > > US goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin Laden
> > > goes after us for not accepting second class citizenship
> > > under Muslim rule.
>
> J.A. Terranson
> > No. He goes after us for the very same reason: for [our]
> > murdering of *hundreds of thousands* of people, both directly
> > (Iraq) and by proxy (Israel).
>
> What then is the reason for the murder of Afghans and Sudanese?


As much as I hate to followup to myself, I can't help this one: I just
fucked up.  In my earnest to provide a timely answer (at a moment when I
am precisely *out* of any time whatsoever), I made the wrong choice by
trying to reply at all.  What came out was a single line of words which
had concepts so compressed that they were lost amongst the very bits
surrounding them: my one line flippant and idiotic looking answer is just
meaningless, and pointless.  I should not have given in to the urge to
reply *now* just because I wanted to put *something* on the record before
I could approach this properly (read: at lengths I didn't have available
at this moment).

I both apologize for this idiocy, and retract that crap answer I just
foisted upon you and the rest of the readers - that I spewed it at all is
embarrasing enough!

I promise to answer this properly, but I'm afraid it'll have to wait till
saturday for me to have the time to do it right (the way I *should* have
done it three minutes ago, or else STFU).

Sorry - you (as in the cosmic "you" as well as in "JAD") deserved better.
Hell, so did I.

Barf...

>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

Did that make any sense to anyone but me?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Wed Oct 20 22:44:58 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:44:58 -0700
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com>

At 05:23 PM 10/18/2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>  <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/3753886.stm>

It turns out that their techniques aren't all that useful.
Changing laser printer cartridges changes the results.
You might find that two documents were printed
by the same printer, but it doesn't give you the
options for tracking it down that manual typewriters did.
And the differences don't identify a specific printer
in a way that can be tracked, e.g. identifying a serial number
that could be looked up from warranty records.

It's not clear that they work at all with inkjet printers,
and changing ink cartridges is even more common than
changing laser printer cartridges.  If you're sloppy,
you've probably got a bunch of partly-used cartridges around,
so even if you want to print out a bunch of ransom notes
or whatever, you don't even have to go to Kinko's
to get them to be different.

If printer makers want to build in watermarking to
make everything they print traceable, the way many of them
check for documents that look like money and don't print them,
they could hide patterns that survive cartridge changes
(would you notice a few inverted pixels on a 600x600dpi printout?)
But even then, inkjet printers are dirt cheap;
when they're on sale, they're essentially a free enclosure
in a box of overpriced printer cartridges,
so even of the printer wants to rat out the user and
it's not easy to change the serial number PROM,
you can just replace the printer.

----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From steve49152 at yahoo.ca  Wed Oct 20 20:28:50 2004
From: steve49152 at yahoo.ca (Steve Thompson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:28:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <417575BA.8090205@systemics.com>
Message-ID: <20041021032850.70048.qmail@web51802.mail.yahoo.com>

I seem to recall hearing a rumour that suggested that for years now, photocopiers have been leaving their serial number on the copies they produce.  If true, and I am inclined to believe it, it follows naturally that something similar might happen with laser-printers and ink-jet printers.

Ian Grigg <iang at systemics.com> wrote: R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> 

> US scientists have discovered that every desktop printer has a signature
> style that it invisibly leaves on all the documents it produces.

I don't think this is new - I'm pretty sure it was
published about 6 or 7 years back as a technique.

iang





---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 02:20:51 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:20:51 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410202125170.25380@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <417655CC.696.690339@localhost>
Message-ID: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>

    --
On 20 Oct 2004 at 21:27, Sunder wrote:

> I repeat:
>
> And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, 
> interrogator, and prisoner to make sure that the POW's 
> weren't tortured?

We know torture did not occur, because lots of people have been 
released who were and are extremely hostile to the US, and who 
do not claim torture.

> And you were there and witnessed the attrocities that said 
> prisoners committed in order to be placed in Gitmo?

Why do you assert that the US must be guilty unless it can be
proven innocent by extraordinary evidence, but the detainees
must be innocent unless they can be proven guilty by
extraordinary evidence?

Doubtless there are some innocents in Gautenamo - but the usual 
reason they are there is for being foreigners in Afghanistan in 
the middle of a war with no adequate explanation. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     PwxWpHJKrzapMUAE8Xc1hvpY0CWDO780ZY/6zW7b
     4b9RBklMS97dzSSANw7jVcZlASDxbNnLMhwLptK+Z




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 02:30:55 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:30:55 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <20041020215830.Y12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <4176BE53.4821.2015090@localhost>
Message-ID: <41771F5F.21684.1DBE94@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > > > > > ... but Bin Laden's indictment not only mentions US 
> > > > > > troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the reconquest of 
> > > > > > Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in 
> > > > > > Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey
> > > > > > Shariah law.

J.A. Terranson
> > > > > Whats good for the goose is good for the gander,
> > > > > right? The US can go after BL for not following US 
> > > > > [constitutional] law, so why can't he come after us
> > > > > for not following Shariah (or any other) law?

James A. Donald:
> > > > But these laws are not as like as geese and ganders.
> > > > The US goes after Bin Laden for murdering people.  Bin
> > > > Laden goes after us for not accepting second class
> > > > citizenship under Muslim rule.

J.A. Terranson
> > > No. He goes after us for the very same reason: for [our] 
> > > murdering of *hundreds of thousands* of people, both
> > > directly (Iraq) and by proxy (Israel).

James A. Donald:
> > What then is the reason for the murder of Afghans and
> > Sudanese?

J.A. Terranson
> My enemy's friend is my enemy.

But Al Quaeda and like groups were murdering Afghans in large
numbers long before the US renewed their old alliances. *

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     VeAfgPXsu8hMd159ebYkMe4IMwec2ScP1h/9frn/
     40jZWcrteGmlLGXGPABh60Da4xPqu9PUZow53bsJs




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 09:43:16 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:43:16 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410211021240.6685@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
Message-ID: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>

    --
On 21 Oct 2004 at 10:26, Sunder wrote:
> IMHO, you are a misguided armchair general who sees yourself 
> as equal to those scumbags that have risen in power to lead 
> or enslave nations since you seem to constantly say "they 
> should have done X, and not Y"

When people are under attack, you cannot tell them to suck it 
up, which is what you are doing.  If we had no government, we 
might well be doing pogroms against american muslims - and a 
good thing to.

War causes governments, and causes governments to gain power, 
but the US government was not the aggressor in this war.   US 
government meddling in the middle east was unwise and 
unnecessary, but it did not provoke, nor does it justify, this 
war.

The intent of a large minority of muslims was to start a holy 
war between the west and Islam, and the majority of muslims 
lack the will or courage to stop them, or even criticize them. 
That was not the intent of Americans, or the American 
government.  They started it, they meant to start it. Americans
tried to avoid it, some of them are still trying to avoid it. 
All Americans are still trying to conduct the war on the
smallest possible scale, against the smallest possible subset
of Islam, disagreeing only on how small that subset can be. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     YeXgmiDN23gKNejAXLPSgfGxzFPVqFa/9pEDbWNr
     41sYVdSvXQCEQniQVEIYWhWw2HjtvpvuHtQ0QXUaI




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 09:53:24 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:53:24 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41778714.25243.1B2D86B@localhost>

    --
On 21 Oct 2004 at 12:19, Tyler Durden wrote:
> Basically the way I see it. I've felt for a long time that
> the US (even while pursuing it's questionable goals) should
> have jumped all over the chance to buddy-up with China after
> the Sino-Soviet split, and knowing Mao's practicality I'd bet
> he could have been pursuaded

But the US did try (enventually somewhat successfully) to buddy
up with China after the Sino Soviet split.

> But of course, we were still in the middle of McCarthy-ism,
> so way too ideologically blind to see the obvious

The Sino Soviet split occurred long, long, long after
McCarthy-ism, and the McCarthyism you imagine never existed.

> As a result we continued to mindlessly pursue ideology rather
> than practicality and so ended really making things worse in
> SE Asia, in a place where Marxism was really a useful but
> temporary veneer over local politics (again we were too blind
> to see that Marxism was a western transplant that wasn't
> going to do too well in Asia)

Marxism collapsed in IndoChina when the Soviet Union collapsed. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     tZmcZdj//R58tp4DiAG0IC4pOHohzacYZQvAALA8
     4giYjxVqF5lKWmPpdSglZvGiAEMgB4qWZL08Rt4LN




From sunder at sunder.net  Thu Oct 21 06:57:28 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:57:28 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <20041021032850.70048.qmail@web51802.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041021032850.70048.qmail@web51802.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410210956200.6685@silkworth.sunder.net>

Simple way to test.  Get two printers of the same make and model.  Print 
identical documents on both printers, scan them, diff the scans.  Some 
will be noise, repeat several times, see which noise repeats and you get 
closer and closer to the serial #'s.

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Steve Thompson wrote:

> I seem to recall hearing a rumour that suggested that for years now, photocopiers have been leaving their serial number on the copies they produce.  If true, and I am inclined to believe it, it follows naturally that something similar might happen with laser-printers and ink-jet printers.
> 
> Ian Grigg <iang at systemics.com> wrote: R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> > 
> 
> > US scientists have discovered that every desktop printer has a signature
> > style that it invisibly leaves on all the documents it produces.
> 
> I don't think this is new - I'm pretty sure it was
> published about 6 or 7 years back as a technique.
> 
> iang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 10:09:28 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:09:28 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F96OISo1WYi3N000061b8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41778AD8.28509.1C18F66@localhost>

    --
On 21 Oct 2004 at 10:28, Tyler Durden wrote:
> No. You've got to do more reading. Sihoanouk was in power and
> loosely held a coalition together. In part because he
> believed it and in part because it was necessary to hold this
> coalition together, Sihoanouk did not spout particularly
> pro-American rhetoric. As a result, the US/CIA backed Lon Nol
> to overthrow Sihoanouk.

This used to be a self flattering delusion, is now a lie. US
records have been opened, we know that the overthrow came as a
complete surprise to the US, and that initially the US did not
know whose side Lon Nol was on.

What happened was that Sihanouk's allies, the North Vietnamese,
attacked him.   This discredited Sihanouk's foreign policy, and
Sihanouk himself, and led to those who sought to save Cambodia
from Vietnamese domination, sought to avoid the installation of
the (then seemingly puppet) Khmer Rouge, overthrowing Sihanouk.
Shawcross, no friend of the US, reluctantly conceded this after
doing a big freedom of information thing.

> The US was in Vietnam trying to fight their way up. So it
> would have been pretty evident to anyone watching that the US
> was trying to undermine the PRC.

You live in a world of delusion.  Your dates are all wrong,
your events are all fiction.

> Mao did the reasonable thing and fought us (and won) in all 3 
> theaters. I'll agree with you pretty quickly if you say Mao
> was a fairly Stalinist butcher, but in any event he made use
> of the Khmer Rouge to push a US-backed puppet out of the
> peninsula

The Khmer Rouge were primarily backed by the Soviet Union at
first.  When it became apparent that they were not the puppets
that those who organized them and initially armed them intended
them to be, they subsequently received more backing from China,
and less from the Soviet Union, but they were brought to power
by support from both China and the Soviet Union.

> What if the US had not followed such an aggressive policy
> towards the PRC?

The US never followed an aggressive policy towards the PRC.

> Chinese history gives us a clear indication: They would never 
> have backed the Khmer Rouge. (Sihoanouk regularly traveled to
> China before and after that time, BTW, and was moderately
> friendly with Jong Nan Hai.)

Sihanouk was friendly, indeed abjectly servile, to the North
Vietnamese and the Soviet Union, yet the North Vietnamese
created the Khmer Rouge and attacked Cambodia.

Same thing happened with Laos, where the Americans never got
involved at all to any significant extent. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     zb5a74rNSc9lJdS/j1FjUvRf0YLLcKMfJtnK+yY8
     4vGyjijdoPOZR1s3LKxaVmjbOBleszE0W5/7pQmoR




From sunder at sunder.net  Thu Oct 21 07:26:44 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:26:44 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
References: <417655CC.696.690339@localhost>
  <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410211021240.6685@silkworth.sunder.net>

I made no claims, you did, rather I asked you sarcastically to validate
your claims, after which you further assumed on top of other mistaken
assumptions, that I made claims countering yours, which I did not.

Perhaps you should examine your own words.

IMHO, you are a misguided armchair general who sees yourself as equal to 
those scumbags that have risen in power to lead or enslave nations since 
you seem to constantly say "they should have done X, and not Y" and are 
constantly seeking to go against with reality with "W should be the case, 
not X" even though W cannot happen while X does.  Yes, that is my 
unprofessional opinion.  And yet, while impotent to achive your views of 
reality, you insist on sharing it, as if anyone gives a rats ass.

It was entertaining, but it's getting old.


I doubt that it would be long before you'll be sporting a tin foil hat.


----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>     --
> On 20 Oct 2004 at 21:27, Sunder wrote:
> 
> > I repeat:
> >
> > And you were there and kept an eye on each and every guard, 
> > interrogator, and prisoner to make sure that the POW's 
> > weren't tortured?
> 
> We know torture did not occur, because lots of people have been 
> released who were and are extremely hostile to the US, and who 
> do not claim torture.
> 
> > And you were there and witnessed the attrocities that said 
> > prisoners committed in order to be placed in Gitmo?
> 
> Why do you assert that the US must be guilty unless it can be
> proven innocent by extraordinary evidence, but the detainees
> must be innocent unless they can be proven guilty by
> extraordinary evidence?
> 
> Doubtless there are some innocents in Gautenamo - but the usual 
> reason they are there is for being foreigners in Afghanistan in 
> the middle of a war with no adequate explanation. 
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      PwxWpHJKrzapMUAE8Xc1hvpY0CWDO780ZY/6zW7b
>      4b9RBklMS97dzSSANw7jVcZlASDxbNnLMhwLptK+Z




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 07:28:33 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:33 -0400
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
Message-ID: <BAY24-F96OISo1WYi3N000061b8@hotmail.com>

>As I said, an Islamic regime is objectionable if it tolerates
>terror against non islamic minorities, thus creating, perhaps
>unintentionally, an environment that facilitates terror against
>external infidels - that is to say, terror against me and
>people like me.

You say a lot of wacky stuff, so it suprises me that I find this pragraph to 
actually make some sense.



> > In this context a very strong case can be made that the US
> > caused the Khmer Rouge to come to power, precisely by
> > performing in a way similar to what you espouse.
>
>That "case" is a nutty rationalization put forward by the
>former fans of the Khmer Rouge to rationalize their bad
>conduct.

No. You've got to do more reading. Sihoanouk was in power and loosely held a 
coalition together. In part because he believed it and in part because it 
was necessary to hold this coalition together, Sihoanouk did not spout 
particularly pro-American rhetoric. As a result, the US/CIA backed Lon Nol 
to overthrow Sihoanouk. Lon Nol could by no means hold things together , so 
in swept the Khmer Rouge, backed by Mao and the Chicoms.

Let's remember some facts here: The US backed the ferociously corrupt Chiang 
regime, even helping them sack China's treasuries. The US fought China in 
Korea and was now occupying it. MacArthur threatened to make China a nuclear 
"Parking Lot". The US was in Vietnam trying to fight their way up. So it 
would have been pretty evident to anyone watching that the US was trying to 
undermine the PRC. In fact, this was also a main motivation for the Cultural 
Revolution: Mao wanted to move heavy industry out into the countryside, away 
from easy bomb-ability by the Americans. (Of course, that idea was actually 
used by Mao for consolidating his politcal power which was always with the 
peasants, but that's besides the point).

Mao did the reasonable thing and fought us (and won) in all 3 theaters. I'll 
agree with you pretty quickly if you say Mao was a fairly Stalinist butcher, 
but in any event he made use of the Khmer Rouge to push a US-backed puppet 
out of the peninsula. Note that only after Mao kicked our asses repeatedly 
did Nixon and Kissinger decide to make friends with Mao and the PRC (which 
was the smart thing to do all along after the Sino-Soviet split).

What if the US had not followed such an aggressive policy towards the PRC? 
Chinese history gives us a clear indication: They would never have backed 
the Khmer Rouge. (Sihoanouk regularly traveled to China before and after 
that time, BTW, and was moderately friendly with Jong Nan Hai.) In addition, 
the notion of having to hide Chinese industry from the Americans could never 
have been used as a credible reason for lauching the Cultural Revolution.

In the end, our policies in SE Asia likely caused millions to be killed, and 
in the end were self-defeating. A complete fiasco. And the same thing is 
happening in the Middle East.

So even if one agrees that your goals are 'admirable' (and I question that), 
your methods would also be a complete, unmitigated disaster.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From llister at vitagroup.com  Thu Oct 21 10:57:55 2004
From: llister at vitagroup.com (Lori Lister)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:57:55 -0600
Subject: Do you know anyone looking for a Cryptography position?
Message-ID: <mailman.1052.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Dear R.A.,
I am a technical recruiter, looking of for a Senior Security Engineer /
Cryptography expert for an outstanding client of mine in Colorado. Your
name has come up as someone strong in cryptography so I was wondering if
you might know anyone who is looking for a full-time position in
cryptography and who may be interested in a new opportunity?

I am looking for a security engineer with strong experience in
developing systems using a variety of standards (RSA, DES, AES, and/or
PKI). Additional experience with DRM would be a plus, but is not
required. This is a visionary position so the most important piece is
in-depth and broad-based practical knowledge of the standards and their
uses in high-tech systems. This is an outstanding opportunity for the
right person - hands-on and leadership opportunity in a great company
with super benefits and work on the cutting edge of very exciting
technology developments.
Please feel free to pass on my information or to contact me direct if
you know of anyone who might be interested.


This is message is being sent directly to you and is not intended as
SPAM in any way.  You have not been added to any mailing lists and your
information has not been shared.  If you do not wish to receive any
further emails from Vita Group, Inc., please let me know and I will make
sure that you do not.


Thank you very much!

Lori A. Lister, President
Vita Group, Inc. - bringing life to business!
Recruiting Services for IT, Engineering & Biotech
Ph: 303.465.4944
email: llister at vitagroup.com
URL: http://www.vitagroup.com/

Our mission is to always provide professional, ethical, and honest
services.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 09:19:48 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:19:48 -0400
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
Message-ID: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>

Will Morton wrote...

>    In addition, the whole of Indochina was (and is) a clusterfuck of 
>rivalries and feuds going back centuries.  The (relatively) sudden 
>appearance of a bunch of new regimes, all with revolutionary mindsets 
>through which to apply their old vendettas, probably made the bloodshed 
>inevitable - although US intervention undoubtedly made it worse.

Basically the way I see it. I've felt for a long time that the US (even 
while pursuing it's questionable goals) should have jumped all over the 
chance to buddy-up with China after the Sino-Soviet split, and knowing Mao's 
practicality I'd bet he could have been pursuaded (hell, not long after it 
was Mao and Zhou who initated contact with the US). Relations with Vietnam 
and Cambodia could have proceeded very differently in that environment. 
Would the cultural revolution still have happened? Probably. Would the 
Khmers have gotten into power...possibly but I actually doubt it.

But of course, we were still in the middle of McCarthy-ism, so way too 
ideologically blind to see the obvious. As a result we continued to 
mindlessly pursue ideology rather than practicality and so ended really 
making things worse in SE Asia, in a place where Marxism was really a useful 
but temporary veneer over local politics (again we were too blind to see 
that Marxism was a western transplant that wasn't going to do too well in 
Asia). And we're doing it again...(eg, we had some chances with Iran 
recently that we passed up...that was really stupid, and the Iranians seem 
to know it).

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 21 10:39:45 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:39:45 -0400
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
Message-ID: <BAY24-F8A7OIkUqLpHk0000c3af@hotmail.com>

Uh...wha?

I said...
> > The US was in Vietnam trying to fight their way up. So it
> > would have been pretty evident to anyone watching that the US
> > was trying to undermine the PRC.
>

And you said...
>You live in a world of delusion.  Your dates are all wrong,
>your events are all fiction.

So there was no Vietnam war? The US was not involved? It didn't occur in the 
60s? Are you saying that the cultural revolution didn't begin in 
approximately 1966? That the Sino-Soviet split didn't occur in the late 
1950s?

>The US never followed an aggressive policy towards the PRC.

Like I said: Uh...wha?

Let's put it this way: Mao and China clearly interpreted US involvement 
around China (ie, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc...) as having a lot to do 
with containing the 'communist meanace' and restoring the Chiang regime to 
power (we had funded Chiang and the incredibly corrupt Soongs with billions 
of $ during the 30s and 40s). Whether you agree with this actually 
constituting "aggression" or not is almost irrelevant. Clearly, our 
involvement in all of those areas (along with the rhetoric along with 
MacArthur's words which got him fired) could easily be interpreted as such.

But let's sidestep this and point out that it's the US that did this then 
and is doing this in the middle east. Almost no other countires can be said 
to be involved in a meaningful way. So is it your belief that the US is 
somehow more moral/courageous/godfearing than all the other countries in the 
world? Why is it always us (and not other countries) meddling in foreign 
affairs? Doesn't that strike you as odd? Is it merely a coincidence that we 
continue to be the focus of lots of international hostility?

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From sunder at sunder.net  Thu Oct 21 10:41:55 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:41:55 -0400 (edt)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
References: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
  <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410211340070.6685@silkworth.sunder.net>

No you imbecile, I'm telling no one anything, other than you to get a 
clue.  Where did I tell people who are under attack to suck it up?

All I did was point out that you weren't there and therefore any comment 
you care to make about it is bound to be flawed.

Please find yourself a clue store and open your wallet - wide.

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>     --
> On 21 Oct 2004 at 10:26, Sunder wrote:
> > IMHO, you are a misguided armchair general who sees yourself 
> > as equal to those scumbags that have risen in power to lead 
> > or enslave nations since you seem to constantly say "they 
> > should have done X, and not Y"
> 
> When people are under attack, you cannot tell them to suck it 
> up, which is what you are doing.  If we had no government, we 
> might well be doing pogroms against american muslims - and a 
> good thing to.
> 
> War causes governments, and causes governments to gain power, 
> but the US government was not the aggressor in this war.   US 
> government meddling in the middle east was unwise and 
> unnecessary, but it did not provoke, nor does it justify, this 
> war.
> 
> The intent of a large minority of muslims was to start a holy 
> war between the west and Islam, and the majority of muslims 
> lack the will or courage to stop them, or even criticize them. 
> That was not the intent of Americans, or the American 
> government.  They started it, they meant to start it. Americans
> tried to avoid it, some of them are still trying to avoid it. 
> All Americans are still trying to conduct the war on the
> smallest possible scale, against the smallest possible subset
> of Islam, disagreeing only on how small that subset can be. 
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      YeXgmiDN23gKNejAXLPSgfGxzFPVqFa/9pEDbWNr
>      41sYVdSvXQCEQniQVEIYWhWw2HjtvpvuHtQ0QXUaI




From jerrold.leichter at smarts.com  Thu Oct 21 11:09:19 2004
From: jerrold.leichter at smarts.com (Jerrold Leichter)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:09:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com>
References: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0410211350270.8938@frame>

| It turns out that their techniques aren't all that useful.
| Changing laser printer cartridges changes the results.
| You might find that two documents were printed
| by the same printer, but it doesn't give you the
| options for tracking it down that manual typewriters did.
Actually, they say they can identify the make and model - which is about all
you could do with a typewriter.  Going further, in either case, means tying a
particular piece of text to a particular writing instrument to which you have
gained access.

Changing printer cartridges will certainly work, but then again simply replac-
ing the typewriter will, too.  Any identification of physical objects can only
work as long as the physical object isn't replaced.  In practice, there's a
great deal of inertia in replacing physical objects, for cost, convenience, and
other reasons.  So such identifications may still be useful.

| And the differences don't identify a specific printer
| in a way that can be tracked, e.g. identifying a serial number
| that could be looked up from warranty records.
A bullet can't be tied to a gun's serial number, but that doesn't make it
useless to examine bullets.

| It's not clear that they work at all with inkjet printers,
| and changing ink cartridges is even more common than
| changing laser printer cartridges.
The technique is based on variations in dot pattern that ultimately come down
to small variations in mechanical parts, usually the gears that drive the
paper.  Laser printer cartridges are deliberately designed so that (just
about) all moving/wearing parts are part of the cartridge.  So most variations
in the results are necessarily tied to the cartridge.  That's not true for ink
jets. While the paper describing all this isn't yet available, from what is
published I don't think they are making any claims about inkjets, just laser
printers. However, they seem to believe the same general approach - look for
variations due to variations in manufacture that don't produce artifacts that
are visible to the naked eye, so don't need to be and hence are not controlled
- would work.  Whether the source of the variation would be in the ink
cartridge or in the fixed mechanicals, who can say at this point.

|				      If you're sloppy,
| you've probably got a bunch of partly-used cartridges around,
| so even if you want to print out a bunch of ransom notes
| or whatever, you don't even have to go to Kinko's
| to get them to be different.
|
| If printer makers want to build in watermarking to
| make everything they print traceable, the way many of them
| check for documents that look like money and don't print them,
| they could hide patterns that survive cartridge changes
| (would you notice a few inverted pixels on a 600x600dpi printout?)
Actually, this would probably be noticable in certain pictures.  But slight
variations in pixel spacing - which is what these guys look for - is not
visible.  (In fact, the origin of this work seems to have been work in the
opposite direction:  Early laser printers had a problem with banding, due to
periodic variations in paper movement causing variations in pixel spacing.
The trick was to find out how much variation you could allow without visible
artifacts and then get to that level cheaply.  But there is still plenty of
variation left for appropriate software to find.)  You could probably play
games with pixel sizes, too.

| But even then, inkjet printers are dirt cheap;
| when they're on sale, they're essentially a free enclosure
| in a box of overpriced printer cartridges,
| so even of the printer wants to rat out the user and
| it's not easy to change the serial number PROM,
| you can just replace the printer.
One could say the same about most physical objects that end up being used
for identification.  You would think that fibers would be useless for
identification, for example - you can always throw out the clothing you were
wearing and buy a new tee shirt.  Still ... the real world has a great deal
of inertia.
							-- Jerry




From jya at pipeline.com  Thu Oct 21 14:45:04 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:45:04 -0700
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0410211350270.8938@frame>
References: <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com> 
  <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <E1CKi07-0000nh-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Bear in mind that typewrites have been traced by the
minute, unique characteristics of the metal face of 
character producers, whether lever-type or ball. The 
FBI has been doing this quite a while.

Micro-forensics of the unique printing mechanism of each
machine is likely possible. Identification in this manner 
would have nothing to do with toner cartridges or machine 
numbers, although it would probably take a sophisticated
laboratory to make the match.

As with most intelligence involving technology, it is not
the obvious that reveals but conceals the less than
obvious, at several depths of deception. Software 
registration numbers don't mean much compared to 
what is snarfed when you log on to register a product -- 
not to mention those sneaky handshakes of PKs and 
TTPs and SSHs and Extra-Secure Certificates.

Take a gander at a Wash Post Op-Ed from a few
days ago that explained what has been explained
years ago on this sacred list about technological
and intelligence deception, in particular the role
of media yokeling the public:


http://cryptome.org/intel-pr.htm

To be sure the Op-Ed, written by someone at MIT's
Security Studies Center (wah!), may be an example of 
what it speaks, but not this message from god: there will
be no casualities, James, dogdamn it, no pain and
suffering, just lip flapping about the horror deserved.




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 21 13:09:37 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:09:37 -0400
Subject: e-gold
Message-ID: <p061104d0bd9daec41398@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 5:32 PM -0400 10/20/04, Somebody wrote:
>How much do you know about the e-gold crew? I've sent them a couple
>of queries and I've gotten answers back that haven't been very
>pleasing.

The short story is that they're a
Jesus-is-coming-and-boy-is-he-pissed pre-millennium gold transaction
startup, and the millennium came and went sans datequake and/or
rapture. Good news is they're good businessmen after all, they're
making money, and they've honored their internet transactions for
more than a dozen years. They even pre-date the commercial net by a
few years. Bad news is when they ever do go sideways one of the
partners is a tax-lawyer from, er, heck, (the money partner is an
oncologist; they met in a bible-study class... not, um, the end of
the world, Rockefeller was a bible-thumping baptist, remember...) and
the russian-doll puzzle of domiciles subsidiaries and governance
documents goes through about six countries including Nevis, Bermunda,
etc., not to mention separate gold depository accounts around the
world.

The long story is, well, long. I trust 'em to do the gold
transactions. It's not cheap, though. It's gold, it needs to be
stored, and there are storage charges. You need a currency-exchange
provider, to get money into and out of the system. The ones I like
most are ice-gold <http://www.icegold.com>, in, of all places,
Estonia (Latvia???). Jim Ray  <jray at free-market.net>, a former
cypherpunk, is a good guy, and e-gold's original internet evangelist,
and has been with them for about 10 years.

Another reputable gold-transaction outfit is Goldmoney
<http://www.goldmoney.com>. They're just plain-old-fashioned
gold-bugs from the old school. You know, a financial calamity around
the corner but it's okay, because we're gonna get rich. :-).
Seriously, James Turk, the founder there has been a gold bug since
the heyday of the Oil Embargo. He used to work at Citibank in the far
east, back in the day. And, instead of down in Florida somewhere as
it is for E-Gold, GoldMoney's office is in midtown, even if the
gold's at ViaMAT in London and the domicile's the Channel Islands,
Jersey, I think. Turk's been in the gold bug business so long that he
*patented* the whole idea of electronic gold transactions way back
when, submarined it until e-gold was hauling it down, and is now
collecting royalties.

Of course, you know me. I'm not much into the whole
commodities-as-money thing, I'd rather do bearer forms of
depository-held collateral, like, say, dollars -- or the S&P. :-).


So, what kind of problems are you having?

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 21 13:11:06 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:11:06 -0400
Subject: e-gold
Message-ID: <p061104d1bd9daeeb1ca9@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 10:17 AM -0400 10/21/04, Somebody wrote:
>"R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com> writes:
>> So, what kind of problems are you having?
>
>I can't seem to figure out how one deposits or removes gold from
>e-gold.

They got out of the business of exchanging other forms of money into
e-gold a long time ago. Think of them more as an on-line book-entry
central securities depository, ala DTC
<http://www.dtc.org/dtcpublic/html/>, CREST
<http://www.crestco.co.uk> (now apparently part of Euroclear
<http://euroclear.com>), etc.

The minute they got out of the business and spun their own exchange
department off into its own firm, literally tens of companies, if not
hundreds since, popped up and started competing. As far as E-Gold was
concerned, it was a hell of a lot better than taking in people's
Kruggerands etc., and turning it into debits and credits into a
database, and the size of their reserves went up accordingly. Imagine
being an individual investor in the US, going to DTC and trying to
figure out what they do or whether you can do business with them.
Same problem with E-Gold, anymore. Actually, CREST *does*, last time
I looked at them, have retail accounts, so maybe they're more
applicable than the strictly-institutional DTC.


The companies that do the in/out exchange (for a fee) are now called
"exchange providers". There are lots of them, and they range from
professional, like IceGold <http://www.icegold.com>, who I talked
about, to, well, anyone who'll take your check in the mail, wait for
it to clear, and then click you some gold to your e-gold account. The
big ones do more different kinds of money from wires to credit cards
etc., but not PayPal, because it's against the PayPal user agreement
to buy and sell securities. PayPal freezes exchange provider accounts
whenever they show up. In the meantime, expect to wait for the money
you send them to completely and irrevocably clear before you see an
increase in the account at E-Gold.

> They post no information on that at all, and when I've asked
>them, they've more or less evaded the question. An operation like
>this, if it was on the up and up, would have to be taking bailments
>and permitting removals of gold on a frequent basis, but they're
>apparently set up to do nothing of the kind.

See above. They're taking large wholesale in/out orders only, mostly
from the aforementioned exchange providers, who then click you retail
amounts of E-Gold for a fee, sometimes less than E-Gold would on a
hypothetical retail rate, sometimes less, depending on how they
gold's moving that day.

>Their online examiner shows exactly the same amount of gold in the
>system over a very extended period of time -- call it $25M worth --
>and shows perhaps $1.5M a day in transactions. That transaction
>level is surprisingly high given that no gold comes into or out of
>the
>system at all so far as I can tell.

See above. The transaction level is surprisingly high given the
transaction costs as well, but remember what I said about storing
gold, etc., and, of course, the fact that they're doing book-entry
transactions and their attendant, non-repudiation, auditing, etc.,
costs.

>Overall, I'm wondering a lot about whether there is funny business
>of some sort going on -- but I can't tell what the nature of the
>funny
>business might be.

I don't think so. If you count up all the fees, they're making enough
money on the throughput, storage, in/out exchange fees, and so on.
Since they're only handling the depository management function
anymore, they don't have nearly as much overhead as you would think.

The larger and better firms in this business, like E-Gold and
Goldmoney, have sufficiently complicated arrangements with their
storage firms, governments where they're domiciled, and so on, that
there is probably sufficient oversight for all this. They are doing
book-entry trades, remember. They have to call the cops for
enforcement themselves if someone rips *them* off somewhere. E-Gold
and Goldmoney's officers are US citizens residing and working, for
the most part, on US soil. Everyone knows who they are and where they
are. We're a long way from TCMay's Cryptopia here, um, Toto.


Obviously, caveat emptor, and all that. There's always lots of risk
in any kind of financial intermediary business, up to, and including
the risk that the entrepreneurs dodging off with the reserve assets,
and all you have in terms of risk prediction -- in the absence of
financial controls -- is what David Hume called "constant
conjunction": they are honest today, were honest yesterday, and every
other day so far, so we can, in theory, expect them to be honest
tomorrow.

As for the lack of growth of the reserve pool, after bursting
internet bubbles, terrorism attacks, and wars on same, the bloom is
certainly off the rose. We're way past the whizzy, "holy cow, we can
do *gold* transactions, on the *internet*, isn't that *kewl*" stage,
and the business is now cruising along on the people who actually
find it useful, and/or profitable, to do business that way, and less
on enthusiasts, privacy, theological, political, financial, or
otherwise. Jesus didn't come, or he wasn't pissed, or the date didn't
quake, or the state didn't collapse, or whatever. It's just a
business now.

For a while there were lots of scamsters getting paid in digital gold
currencies, exploiting the "gee-whiz" factor for the rubes, but that
seems to have died down a bit, between the efforts of various
federales, the just-plain mundane ubiquity of the internet increasing
the pervasivity of net.clues, and, I expect, the judicious expulsion
from the system by an operator or two.

Being more financial gold-bugs than um, apocalyptic eschatologists
(libertarian, anacharcapitalist, or otherwise -- okay, a gold-bug, by
definition, is a *financial* apocalyptic eschatologist, sue me :-))
Goldmoney is particular about the know-your-customer stuff, and about
kicking potential scamsters off their system than e-gold is, but
e-gold isn't about to lose their shirts by associating themselves
with scamsters either, modulo an early investment in them by a
cryptofundamentalist disaster-maven who ended up by the feds and/or
in their custody, and, IIRC, much of whose investment in E-Gold has
since been returned to the people who were originally scammed. Live
and learn, and all that.

Speaking of that, I think, in e-gold's case, at least, they have been
more e-sheep than e-goat, certainly at the hands of various
cypherpunks and fellow travellers, who saw them coming, proposed
yet-another-crypto-currency, :-), managing to score some seriously
nice temporary villa-digs in erst-Crypto-Paradise in the process,
resulting in one now famous c-punk bailing out (persona-no-grata in
hand on the ferry leaving Blowing Point) in the pure horror at the
sheer complexity of the algorithm involved, and the rest literally
suing each other off the island and into several other subsequent
jurisdictions.

Learning occurs, as I said before.

So, sure, after more than a decade in business, E-Gold is, and has
been, legitimate. Goldmoney's legitimate, too, though a little
younger, and for the same reason.

Doesn't mean that you shouldn't be careful, and, for the most part,
you shouldn't be using *any* internet transaction method, including
credit cards over SSL, unless you have an excellent business case for
doing so.

The cost of anything is the foregone alternative, and all that.
Getting paid in E-Gold costs money for the seller and they buyer of
the good or service traded for it, especially if your customer
converts to E-Gold to pay you, and you immediately convert out of
E-Gold to get actual dollars to buy stuff with.

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 21 13:13:39 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:13:39 -0400
Subject: Do you know anyone looking for a Cryptography position?
Message-ID: <p061104dcbd9dc8ce2df5@[66.149.49.5]>

I guess the bubble's over officially, now...

:-).

Cheers,
RAH

--- begin forwarded text



From macavity at well.com  Thu Oct 21 08:22:25 2004
From: macavity at well.com (Will Morton)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:22:25 +0100
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F96OISo1WYi3N000061b8@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F96OISo1WYi3N000061b8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4177D431.9030801@well.com>

Tyler Durden wrote:

> What if the US had not followed such an aggressive policy towards the 
> PRC? Chinese history gives us a clear indication: They would never 
> have backed the Khmer Rouge. (Sihoanouk regularly traveled to China 
> before and after that time, BTW, and was moderately friendly with Jong 
> Nan Hai.) In addition, the notion of having to hide Chinese industry 
> from the Americans could never have been used as a credible reason for 
> lauching the Cultural Revolution.
>
> In the end, our policies in SE Asia likely caused millions to be 
> killed, and in the end were self-defeating. A complete fiasco. And the 
> same thing is happening in the Middle East.
>
>
    I certainly wouldn't argue that US policy in Indochina was anything 
other than a fiasco, nor that the current misadventure in the Middle 
East will be spared the same fate, but the Chinese had another very 
important reason to back the Khmer Rouge against Vietnam - Russia.

    The Soviets supplied heavy military and financial aid to Vietnam, in 
return for an anticipated naval base through which they could extend 
their power into the South Seas.  They never got the base - the 
Vietnamese played them like a fiddle - but the threat was enough for the 
PRC to view Vietnam as an enemy-by-proxy, and so to back the Khmer Rouge.

    In addition, the whole of Indochina was (and is) a clusterfuck of 
rivalries and feuds going back centuries.  The (relatively) sudden 
appearance of a bunch of new regimes, all with revolutionary mindsets 
through which to apply their old vendettas, probably made the bloodshed 
inevitable - although US intervention undoubtedly made it worse.

    W




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 17:54:30 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:54:30 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <4177F2E2.1070508@well.com>
References: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4177F7D6.6216.2FADD5@localhost>

    --
On 21 Oct 2004 at 18:33, Will Morton wrote:
> The US missed a real trick when Khatami got into power in 
> 1997; he had a huge swell of popular support behind him, and 
> with significant US backing he could probably have 
> outmaneuvered the conservatives and made some real changes. 
> A truly democratic Persian state would be a huge boost to 
> stability in the Middle East

How could the US have given him support, short of violent 
means, such as bombing Tehran, which he was reluctant to
accept?

> Instead, we had the 'axis of evil' hogwash, and lo: the 
> conservatives marginalise Khatami, and we're back to abayas, 
> beards and jihad.

You have this back to front.  Khatami was marginalized by the 
mullahs, and BECAUSE he was marginalized, because democracy in 
Iran was suppressed, the US government THEN included Iran in
the axis of evil. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     bOnKco+tbdVSGb2A96fIOzqUlk5hPdfyqVii+Kw6
     4n8dzssBv4gYRUzzCUZUGZRnJ7jaPM6R5ewts5h7t




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 18:04:35 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:04:35 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F8A7OIkUqLpHk0000c3af@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4177FA33.19975.38E93B@localhost>

    --
Tyler Durden
> > > The US was in Vietnam trying to fight their way up. So it 
> > > would have been pretty evident to anyone watching that
> > > the US was trying to undermine the PRC.

James A. Donald:
> > You live in a world of delusion.  Your dates are all wrong, 
> > your events are all fiction.

Tyler Durden
> So there was no Vietnam war? The US was not involved? It
> didn't occur in the 60s? Are you saying that the cultural
> revolution didn't begin in approximately 1966? That the
> Sino-Soviet split didn't occur in the late 1950s?

Your claim was that the Vietnam war represented the US trying
to attack China.  In fact it represented the Soviet Union
trying to conquer Indochina, as was demonstrated in the bloody
and horrifying events that unfolded when the US fled.

> other countries in the world? Why is it always us (and not
> other countries) meddling in foreign affairs?

In your version the war in Korea was a US attempt to attack
China, but in fact we know the war was ordered by Stalin to
expand communist domination - the records of his directives
came into our hands when the Soviet Union fell.

 When Pakistan creates the taliban, funds it, arms it, and
sends it from Pakistan to Afghanistan to attack Afghans, this
is non interference according to you, but when the US arms the
Northern Alliance and gives it air support, this is
interference.

Similarly, when the Soviet Union fell, it swiftly became
apparent who had been causing all that trouble in South
America.

> Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Yes, I find your delusions extremely odd. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     DN7cdnmrH9zX3nRagGm67SiI6pLZnOIjYLToV2Wa
     4C5cyR+u2DuxdY3674t5KX11ODbCXHXaK5XIjMrho




From jamesd at echeque.com  Thu Oct 21 18:14:50 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:14:50 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410211340070.6685@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
Message-ID: <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>

    --
On 21 Oct 2004 at 13:41, Sunder wrote:
> No you imbecile, I'm telling no one anything, other than you 
> to get a clue.  Where did I tell people who are under attack 
> to suck it up?

When you tell us it is horrible to lock up in Gautenamo people 
who show every sign of trying to kill us , and that we deserve 
their past efforts to kill us, efforts that some of them 
promptly resumed on release.  We are under attack, and you are
telling us to suck it up. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     bsIXWc4h29VIJkgExpNjUGgUXb/7oelyrYSTY5hy
     4z2stYnmTb7JHw3AHWCBnz9grbOob/owyJwY6xDJS




From macavity at well.com  Thu Oct 21 10:33:22 2004
From: macavity at well.com (Will Morton)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:33:22 +0100
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <4177F2E2.1070508@well.com>

Tyler Durden wrote:

> But of course, we were still in the middle of McCarthy-ism, so way too 
> ideologically blind to see the obvious. As a result we continued to 
> mindlessly pursue ideology rather than practicality and so ended 
> really making things worse in SE Asia, in a place where Marxism was 
> really a useful but temporary veneer over local politics (again we 
> were too blind to see that Marxism was a western transplant that 
> wasn't going to do too well in Asia). And we're doing it again...(eg, 
> we had some chances with Iran recently that we passed up...that was 
> really stupid, and the Iranians seem to know it).
>
    The US missed a real trick when Khatami got into power in 1997; he 
had a huge swell of popular support behind him, and with significant US 
backing he could probably have outmaneuvered the conservatives and made 
some real changes.  A truly democratic Persian state would be a huge 
boost to stability in the Middle East, not to mention the psyops 
benefits of having a poster-child for moderate, tolerant Islam.  
Instead, we had the 'axis of evil' hogwash, and lo: the conservatives 
marginalise Khatami, and we're back to abayas, beards and jihad.

    Of course the more cynical might think that this lack of stability 
is entirely deliberate on the part of the US.  Better to have pet 
tyrants who require American military aid to suppress dissent, and hence 
ensure ongoing access to oil fields, or else loonies who spit vitriol 
about The Great Satan and ensure their own irrelevance (in which case 
the oil stays underground, waiting for a more economically realistic 
owner).  Stable regimes with the ability to sell oil on the world stage 
might start throwing their geopolitical weight around.  Venezuela, anyone?

    W




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 21 15:59:46 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:59:46 -0400
Subject: Are new passports [an] identity-theft risk?
Message-ID: <p06110406bd9defa94996@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41030>

WorldNetDaily

Thursday, October 21, 2004

YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE 

Are new passports
 identity-theft risk?
Privacy advocates warn data chips can be 'seen' by anyone with reader
Posted: October 21, 2004
5:00 p.m. Eastern


 While the U.S. State Department prepares to switch over to passports that
include embedded data chips, privacy experts worry the new technology will
open Americans to identity theft and fraud.

 New passports will be fitted with chips using RFID, or radio frequency
identification, technology. Reader devices at borders and customs
checkpoints will be able to read the information stored on the chip,
including the person's name, address and digital photo.

 Kelly Shannon is a spokesperson for the State Department.

 She told Wired News: "The reason we are doing this is that it simply makes
passports more secure. It's yet another layer beyond the security features
we currently use to ensure the bearer is the person who was issued the
passport originally."

 RFID technology has been used for tracking everything from store inventory
to family members visiting an amusement park. It is also used in the
Digital Angel human implant that recently was approved by the FDA for
storing medical information.

 Wired reports civil libertarians and some technologists say the passport
chips are actually a boon to identity thieves, stalkers and commercial data
collectors, since anyone with the proper reader can download a person's
biographical information and photo from several feet away.

 "Even if they wanted to store this info in a chip, why have a chip that
can be read remotely?" Barry Steinhardt, who directs the American Civil
Liberty Union's Technology and Liberty program, asked Wired. "Why not
require the passport be brought in contact with a reader so that the
passport holder would know it had been captured? Americans in the know will
be wrapping their passports in aluminum foil."

 Last week, the government contracted with four companies to develop the
chips and readers for the program. The report stated diplomats and State
Department employees will be issued the new passports as early as January,
while others applying for new passports will receive the new version
starting in the spring.

 Electronic Frontier Foundation attorney Lee Tien told Wired RFID chips in
passports are a "privacy horror" and would be even if the data were
encrypted, which it isn't.

 "If 180 countries have access to the technology for reading this thing,
whether or not it is encrypted, from a security standpoint, that is a very
leaky system," Tien said. "Strictly from a technology standpoint, any
reader system, even with security, that was so widely deployed and
accessible to so many people worldwide will be subject to some very
interesting compromises."

 An engineer and RFID expert with Intel claims there is little danger of
unauthorized people reading the new passports. Roy Want told the newssite:
"It is actually quite hard to read RFID at a distance," saying a person's
keys, bag and body interfere with the radio waves.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Oct 21 10:34:23 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:34:23 +0200
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
References: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
  <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041021173422.GO1457@leitl.org>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 09:43:16AM -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

> When people are under attack, you cannot tell them to suck it
> up, which is what you are doing.  If we had no government, we

I'm not under attack. Are you? The Ghengis Khan thing's
been a while back.

> might well be doing pogroms against american muslims - and a
> good thing to.

This ways lies much rotting severed heads on stakes, and
screaming. We've been there before. No need for a repetition.

> War causes governments, and causes governments to gain power,
> but the US government was not the aggressor in this war.   US

Your reality model is rather unique. Given that what your alleged
representatives are doing results in massive loss of prestige, you don't want
to associate with defectors. That stink's going to cling for a while.

> government meddling in the middle east was unwise and
> unnecessary, but it did not provoke, nor does it justify, this
> war.
>
> The intent of a large minority of muslims was to start a holy
> war between the west and Islam, and the majority of muslims

The only war there is was started by ShrubCo, and was tacitly approved by
about half of your countrymen. This isn't Nuremberg, but I color your guilty.

> lack the will or courage to stop them, or even criticize them.
> That was not the intent of Americans, or the American
> government.  They started it, they meant to start it. Americans

Ha ha.

> tried to avoid it, some of them are still trying to avoid it.
> All Americans are still trying to conduct the war on the
> smallest possible scale, against the smallest possible subset
> of Islam, disagreeing only on how small that subset can be.

Your reality distortion field manages to make bearded fanatics look good.
Quite an accomplishment. Herr Reichspropagandaminister would have been proud.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org  Thu Oct 21 15:26:01 2004
From: brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org (brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org)
Date: 21 Oct 2004 22:26:01 -0000
Subject: WiMax Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless
Message-ID: <mailman.1053.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Link: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/21/1657253
Posted by: timothy, on 2004-10-21 22:00:00

   from the beaming-it-out-there dept.
   [1]Dozix007 (Kurt Kaylor) writes "Daniel Sweeney, a technical writer,
   business reporter, and industry analyst is coming full circle in his
   series of wireless related writings with his latest book WiMax
   Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless Networks. Sweeney brings
   the WiMax 802.16 standard into the context of a ISP solution for the
   masses. WiMax is a recent standard from the IEEE that is similar to
   conventional wireless technology, however WiMax supports higher data
   rates and longer distance transmissions than other standards from the
   IEEE. This book drifts away from the recent flood of wireless books by
   conveying all needed knowledge to establish, understand, operate and
   potentially profit from an 802.16 wireless network, rather than a
   specific look at one aspect of the technology. This book is not only
   for the business minded, but for a consumer looking to establish a
   quality long-distance wireless network of their own." Read on for the
   rest of Kaylor's review.

   [2]Click Here

   WiMax Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless Networks is
   primarily a utilitarian book rather than conceptual. It provides a
   background in broadband wireless fundamentals, packet data, and
   overall network operation and management to enable a network operator
   to set up a network with standards-based equipment and to run it
   profitably thereafter. Sweeney notes early in the book : "Nothing is
   particularly admirable about purism in terms of wireless technology,
   and if wire line technologies serve the same purpose better over some
   portion of the network footprint, then wise network operators will
   avail themselves of them." This theme of realism in relation to the
   application of a wireless network is prevalent though out the book.

   Wired networks in the same footprint will almost always beat a
   wireless network in speed, reliability, and cost. This is primarily
   due to the previously created infrastructure available to Internet
   carriers. The goal that Sweeney promotes is to find an ideal region
   that has not yet been exploited by a wired service provider. These
   regions are ideal due to the low-cost setup for a wireless network
   compared to the cost of a wired network. Sweeney describes and informs
   the user of ways to find and establish these networks in an efficient
   manner to maximize profitability.

   Sweeney also discusses network security in the later chapters of his
   book. He acknowledges the increasing need to secure the network's own
   infrastructure, the safety of its customers, and a nation itself. In
   relation to wireless networks, Sweeney notes "[Security] is becoming
   increasingly important in network operations today and cannot be
   considered optional at this point." To this end, the network security
   section is devoted to security policies, secure electrical systems,
   cyber warfare, and other information on safeguarding your network.
   Another concern also addressed is the Communications Assistance for
   Law Enforcement Act. CALEA is a complex piece of federal legislation
   that expands law enforcement's authority to conduct electronic
   surveillance, including surveillance over public networks. Sadly, as
   of yet there is no real way to combat this intrusive act.

   WiMax Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless Networks is a great
   resource for businesses and individuals looking to establish their own
   802.16 network. I enjoyed the foresight provided in this book for
   potential problems faced by network operators. The honesty in the
   practicality of an 802.16 network as a realistic network solution also
   made the book a great resource. There was no fantasy scenario or white
   lies to convince a user of the merit of a 802.16 network beyond what
   it can do.

   The gripe I do have with this book is its complete utilitarian nature.
   A little more theory and insight into the standard itself would have
   been great. This book stands purely as an Operator's Manual, and not
   an exploration of WiMax as a standard, but rather a tool. Otherwise,
   this book was highly enjoyable and well written. I would recommend
   this book to anyone looking to establish a network beyond the
   standards commonly available (e.g. 802.11a - 802.11g). This book is
   unique in its topic and sheer honesty, and is one of the few
   references available on the specific subject.
     _________________________________________________________________

   You can purchase [3]WiMax Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless
   Networks from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to
   see your own review here, read the [4]book review guidelines, then
   visit the [5]submission page.

References

   1. mailto:dozix007 at uberhacker.com
   2.
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=4826&alloc_id=10297&site_id=1&request_id=7629555&o
p=click&page=%2farticle%2epl
   3.
http://service.bfast.com/bfast/click?bfmid=2181&sourceid=39391960&isbn=159059
357X
   4. http://slashdot.org/book.review.guidelines.shtml
   5. http://slashdot.org/submit.pl

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From measl at mfn.org  Thu Oct 21 22:05:04 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 00:05:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>
References: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
  <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041022000144.G12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> On 21 Oct 2004 at 13:41, Sunder wrote:
> > No you imbecile, I'm telling no one anything, other than you
> > to get a clue.  Where did I tell people who are under attack
> > to suck it up?
>
> When you tell us it is horrible to lock up in Gautenamo people
> who show every sign of trying to kill us ,

Which is why your great white leader is releasing them?


> and that we deserve
> their past efforts to kill us,

We do.

> efforts that some of them
> promptly resumed on release.  We are under attack, and you are
> telling us to suck it up.

No.  We are under attack by those DEFENDING THEMSELVES.  We shouldn't be
doing anything put putting a bullet into Georgies brain (not that any
projectile is likely to find a target consisting entirely of two
already deficient cells, but...) and minding our own business.  Oh, and
cutting off every single nickel of funding to our partners in the
mass-murderer olympics - Israel.


>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct 22 02:27:34 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:27:34 -0700
Subject: Dr. Hunter S. Thompson on the Election
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041022022445.03a31178@pop.idiom.com>

A lot of columnists are trying to look fair and balanced in their
election coverage, expressing their biases opinions while claiming
to be reasonable; I'm most recently mad at Safire for this.

So it's nice to be able to recommend a column by someone
who's making no pretense of balance, the good Doctor himself:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6562575?rnd=1098436549411&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040



----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Oct 21 20:08:20 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:08:20 +0200
Subject: WiMax Operator's Manual: Building 802.16 Wireless (fwd from
  brian-slashdotnews@hyperreal.org)
Message-ID: <20041022030820.GA1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from brian-slashdotnews at hyperreal.org -----


From eugen at leitl.org  Thu Oct 21 20:46:39 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:46:39 +0200
Subject: echelon hardware
Message-ID: <20041022034638.GG1457@leitl.org>

http://www.techworld.com/storage/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2430

15 October 2004

Want to know the hardware behind Echelon?

Uncle Sam using Texas' SAM.


By Chris Mellor, Techworld











You've probably heard about Echelon, the vast listening system run by the US,
UK, Canada and Australia that scans the world's voice traffic looking for key
words and phrases.



Aside from using the system for industrial espionage and bypassing
international and national laws to listen in on people, it is also used to
listen out for people like Osama bin Laden and assorted terrorists in the
hope of preventing attacks.



All this is out in the relative open thanks to investigative journalists and
a European Commission report into the system, concerned and annoyed that the
Brits and Yanks has got there first.



It works like this: The calls are recorded by geo-stationary spy satellites
and listening stations, such as the UK's Menworth Hill, which combine
satellite-intercepted calls and trunk landline intercepts and forward them on
to centres, such as the US' Fort Meade, where supercomputers work on the
recordings in real time.



But what, you ask, can deal with that overwhelming mass of data that helps
our government spy on the world? And how does it work?



Well, a Texas Memory Systems SAM product - a combined solid-state disk (SSD)
and DSP (digital signal processor). Woody Hutsell, an executive VP at TMS,
said: "Fifty percent of our revenue this year will come from DSP systems,
more than last year. The systems are a combination of SSD with DSP ASICs."
ASICs are application-specific integrated circuits - chips dedicated to a
specific purpose.



TMS has a TM-44 DSP chip which has 8 GFLOPS of processing power - that's
eight billion floating point operations per second. The processing uses
floating point arithmatic operations to supply the accuracy needed for the
analysis. A DSP chip turns analogue signals from a sensor or recorder into
digital information usable by a computer. Digital cameras will use a DSP to
turn the light signals coming through the lens into digital picture element,
or pixel, information.



A SAM-650 product is called a 192 GFLOPS DSP supercomputer by TMS. It is just
3U high and has 24 DSP chips and is positioned as a back-end number cruncher
controlled by any standard server - a similar architecture to that used by
Cray supercomputers. There are vast streams of information coming from
recorded telephone conversations. The ability to have the DSPs work in
parallel speeds up analysis enormously. Spinning hard drives can't feed the
DSPs fast enough, nor are they quick enough for subsequent software analysis
of the data. Consequently TMS uses its solid state technology to provide a
buffer up to 32GB that keeps the DSPs operating at full speed.



A cluster of five SAM-650's provides a terra flop of processing power; one
trillion floating point operations per second.



Echelon is a global surveillance network set up in Cold War days to provide
the US goverment with intelligence data about Russia. One of the main
contractors is Raytheon. Lockheed Martin has been involved in writing
software for it. Since then it has expanded into a general listening
facility, an electronic vacuum cleaner, sucking up the world's telephone
conversations. Information about it's existence has been reluctantly
revealed, prompted by scandals such as the recordings of Princess Diana's
telephone calls by the NSA.



Recorded signals are fed into the TMS SAM systems where the DSPs filter out
the noise to produce much clearer signals that software can work on to detect
individual voices, perform voice recognition, and listen out for keywords,
such as, for example, "Semtex". Decryption of encrypted calls is also a
likely activity.



Hutsell says the SAM systems, "are supplied to intelligence agencies and the
military though system integrators like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Zeta.
It's an intelligence community application involving data from various
sources. This is loaded into RAM and then real-time analysis is carried out
on it. Step one is to filter out the noise and our DSP chips are used for
that. Then they look into patterns using other tools - images or voice. It's
very high-speed."



TMS has supplied its RAMsan high-speed SSD technology to several US
government agencies. Hutsell said, "We have recently sold another terabyte
system to a federal agency. It's installed in the DC [District of Columbia]
area via our partner Vion. There's another in a government data centre with
Oracle indices that needed to be accelerated."



TMS has had 40 percent year on year growth for three years. It has no debt
and is privately-owned. Hutsell said: "This year is the healthiest year
ever." Half the company's revenue comes from the government sector.



Fast, very fast, database and recorded signal access is the name of this
game. The US government wants to know what you and I are talking about. Spy
in the sky satellites listen in to what we say and look at what we do. Then
solid state disk keeps the real time analysis of these calls and images
operating at full speed. The world's fastest storage system is used in the
world's most sophisticated spying operation.



Impressive and scary at the same time.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 22 09:21:09 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:21:09 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041022000144.G12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <4178D105.15430.15D9FB@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > We are under attack, and you are telling us to suck it up.

J.A. Terranson
> No.  We are under attack by those DEFENDING THEMSELVES.

All of the terrorists came from countries that were
beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi Arabia
was certainly not under attack.  If they were Palestinians, and
they hit the Pentagon but not the two towers, then they would
be defending themselves.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     TazBQdvcQ8iq915Dug3d8ZVm8QLxZw7X3TzUYyIl
     4DkboB4fOyw1vcB2E48rceVjwQYN583Qs6efqDL8Z




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 22 09:21:11 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:21:11 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <4178D5FB.6@well.com>
References: <4177F7D6.6216.2FADD5@localhost>
Message-ID: <4178D107.30266.15E264@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> > How could the US have given him support, short of violent 
> > means, such as bombing Tehran, which he was reluctant to 
> > accept?

Will Morton
>     Money.  Push it through your favourite UN department. 
>     Schools and hospitals == goodwill.

But Khatami was knackered shortly after being elected, so any 
aid would be aiding the terrorists.  We saw how well that 
worked in Fallujah and Sadr city.

> > You have this back to front.  Khatami was marginalized by 
> > the mullahs, and BECAUSE he was marginalized, because 
> > democracy in Iran was suppressed, the US government THEN 
> > included Iran in the axis of evil.

>     June 2001: Khatami re-elected

A few months or weeks thereafter, Khatami knackered.

>     January 2002: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' speech February 2004: 
>     Rigged parliamentary elections lead to conservative 
>     majority

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     awTWa50VppXAeloD/WWVz2J1joqO+pSreygahZBW
     4jOiLYK/ThEv65/df4FnAeG1XfpolTTv2+g9uXCPU




From macavity at well.com  Fri Oct 22 02:42:19 2004
From: macavity at well.com (Will Morton)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:42:19 +0100
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <4177F7D6.6216.2FADD5@localhost>
References: <BAY24-F37ZCHusMjQHt0000767d@hotmail.com>
  <4177F7D6.6216.2FADD5@localhost>
Message-ID: <4178D5FB.6@well.com>

James A. Donald wrote:

>How could the US have given him support, short of violent 
>means, such as bombing Tehran, which he was reluctant to
>accept?
>
>  
>
    Money.  Push it through your favourite UN department.  Schools and 
hospitals == goodwill.

>You have this back to front.  Khatami was marginalized by the 
>mullahs, and BECAUSE he was marginalized, because democracy in 
>Iran was suppressed, the US government THEN included Iran in
>the axis of evil.
>

    June 2001: Khatami re-elected
    January 2002: Bush's 'Axis of Evil' speech
    February 2004: Rigged parliamentary elections lead to conservative 
majority

    Where do you source your data?

    W




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct 22 11:12:33 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:12:33 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
References: <417655CC.696.690339@localhost> 
  <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041022104908.03a30e50@pop.idiom.com>

At 02:20 AM 10/21/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>Doubtless there are some innocents in Gautenamo - but the usual
>reason they are there is for being foreigners in Afghanistan in
>the middle of a war with no adequate explanation.

At 09:21 AM 10/22/2004, James A. Donald wrote:
 > J.A. Terranson
 > > No.  We are under attack by those DEFENDING THEMSELVES.
 > All of the terrorists came from countries that were
 > beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.


James - Many, perhaps most, of the POWs at Gitmo weren't foreigners,
they were Afghans.  Many of the POWs at Gitmo probably were Al-Qaeda
or other organized paramilitary groups.  But many of them were
described by the US propagandists as "Taliban fighters" -
the military arm of the local central government who were
"legitimate" to the extent that any group of warlords
who are the current king of the hill are legitimate,
and not too many months before the invasion,
the US government was giving those same Taliban $43million
because they were so helpful in our War on Drugs.
And sure, they're a nasty bunch, but so are many of the
anti-communist military juntas the US supported over the years.

It wasn't like the US didn't know the Taliban were
tolerating anti-American terrorist groups at the time -
Clinton's Pentagon had bombed some of the camps in ~97
as well as the Sudan medical factory in response to
bin Laden's bombing of the US embassies in Africa.

Also, perhaps you don't realize this, but many countries
with central governments do allow foreigners to stay there,
whether as immigrants, tourists, guestworkers, businessmen,
students, or attendees of terrorist training camps like the
School of the Americas or the Osama bin Laden gang.
Countries without effective central governments are usually
more flexible about such things, and cultures that are
tribally organized with colonialist-drawn boundaries
are also less likely to be picky about it, though they may
be more picky about whose tribal land you're in.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com  




From iang at systemics.com  Fri Oct 22 03:45:59 2004
From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:45:59 +0100
Subject: Are new passports [an] identity-theft risk?
In-Reply-To: <p06110406bd9defa94996@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p06110406bd9defa94996@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <4178E4E7.70007@systemics.com>

R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> <http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41030>

>  An engineer and RFID expert with Intel claims there is little danger of
> unauthorized people reading the new passports. Roy Want told the newssite:
> "It is actually quite hard to read RFID at a distance," saying a person's
> keys, bag and body interfere with the radio waves.

Who was it that pointed out that radio waves don't
interfere, rather, receivers can't discriminate?

iang




From sunder at sunder.net  Fri Oct 22 10:06:28 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:06:28 -0400 (edt)
Subject: James A. Donald's insanity
In-Reply-To: <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>
References: <417784B4.12601.1A99348@localhost>
  <4177FC9A.23843.424C2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410221257170.10950@silkworth.sunder.net>

Where did I write to you that it's horrible thing to lock people up in
Gitmo, or that "we" (whomever that is) deserve to be attacked?  Show me
the email, with headers that says such a thing.

Oh, wait, you can't, because I never wrote such.  


Let's see, so you've got lots of people questioning your version of 
various events, and you've got claims that various people wrote things 
that they did not, and lots of people challenging the accuracy and indeed, 
truth of your statements.

Hmmm... So what is the obvious conclusion there?  The whole world must be
against you?  Nah, you're not important enough to be paranoid.  

So, what is the obvious conclusion?  No, no, 2+2 is not 5, even for
extremely large values of 2...  

Come on, come on, out with it, say it, say it...  That's right!  *Ding*
you're reality challenged.


Ah!  There, doesn't that feel better?  Now, please, go back and take your
meds before the nice men in the white coats come to take you to the funny
farm.



----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>     --
> On 21 Oct 2004 at 13:41, Sunder wrote:
> > No you imbecile, I'm telling no one anything, other than you 
> > to get a clue.  Where did I tell people who are under attack 
> > to suck it up?
> 
> When you tell us it is horrible to lock up in Gautenamo people 
> who show every sign of trying to kill us , and that we deserve 
> their past efforts to kill us, efforts that some of them 
> promptly resumed on release.  We are under attack, and you are
> telling us to suck it up. 




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 22 14:08:11 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:08:11 -0700
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <417939A8.9060308@well.com>
References: <4178D107.30266.15E264@localhost>
Message-ID: <4179144B.21618.11CA531@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > But Khatami was knackered shortly after being elected, so 
> > any aid would be aiding the terrorists.  We saw how well 
> > that worked in Fallujah and Sadr city.

> > >    June 2001: Khatami re-elected

> > A few months or weeks thereafter, Khatami knackered.

Will Morton
> Either you're trolling, in which case I salute you as a 
> master of your art, or you are wilfully ignorant.

BBC June 6 2001, a few days after Khatami's election 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1373476.stm
: :	Much of the press that backs Mr Khatami's reforms 
: :	has been silenced, and many of the president's 
: :	supporters have been jailed or face charges

Had the US "supported Khatami", it would have in fact been
supporting not Khatami, but rather those who imprison his
supporters, and who seek to murder people like me. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     q7pyxdArlCfDAnZE5d3/+IxkWI7iTjT8piFY8Z9P
     4EqVTUwRFAWA5KaO8hX5bsicPYMeirjqN7jA2dTqy




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 22 11:59:26 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:59:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <11324503.1098471567437.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 19, 2004 10:23 AM
>To: jamesd at echeque.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)

...
>In developing markets the US track record is terrible. The more we interfere 
>and set up puppet governments and petty dictators, the result has always 
>been the near elimination of any kind of real modern economy.

>More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out or prevented 
>from influencing have been modernizing rapidly, the most obvious example is 
>China and Vietnam. Bolivia is interesting to watch.

So, Taiwan and South Korea seem like rather obvious counterexamples.

>-TD

--John
(Not a fan of interventionist foreign policy, FWIW)




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 22 14:44:56 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:44:56 -0400
Subject: Poll: Antiterror tech plans are flawed
Message-ID: <p0611046cbd9f2f89268a@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.com.com/2102-1009_3-5401058.html?tag=st.util.print>

CNET News


 Poll: Antiterror tech plans are flawed
 By Charles Cooper
 http://news.com.com/Poll+Antiterror+tech+plans+are+flawed/2100-1009_3-5401058.html


 Story last modified October 18, 2004, 4:00 AM PDT



Americans don't believe the government is doing enough with technology to
improve homeland security, according to a national survey conducted jointly
by CNET News.com and Harris Interactive.

 Drawn from a poll of 1,133 people in late August, the results portray a
nation eager to embrace technology to reduce security threats but unsure
how best to proceed. Only 15 percent of those polled believe they are safer
today than they were a year ago, and just 20 percent predict that they will
be safer in the future.
 Despite widespread confidence in technology itself, only 45 percent agreed
that the government's current technology initiatives are working, according
to the survey. The results reflect concerns raised by taxpayer
organizations and other government watchdog groups. Such groups have been
critical of technology spending and related operations since the creation
of the Department of Homeland Security.

 "From the beginning, we were concerned that this reorganization had gone
the way of the Department of Energy--bigger bureaucracy and few results to
show for it," said Pete Sepp, vice president of the nonprofit National
Taxpayer Union. "The picture isn't complete, but the brush strokes we've
seen so far are pretty ugly."

 The survey indicates that the issue could be a pivotal factor in the
elections next month. About 92 percent of the poll's respondents said a
presidential candidate's position on security would affect their vote, and
62 percent said they would support a tax increase to pay for new security
measures.

 The support for security is so strong that the survey's respondents were
apparently willing to back measures that have been sharply criticized by
civil libertarians as too intrusive. About 53 percent of respondents
expressed at least some willingness to repeal certain privacy laws, while
70 percent favored the legalization of more aggressive interrogation
methods.

 More than 80 percent of respondents indicated a willingness to carry some
type of national ID card, and about 70 percent said such a card would be a
useful tool to improve security. The poll also revealed support for the
greater use of cameras and advanced surveillance technologies in public
places, including hand and eye scanners.

 Some technology experts attributed the response at least partly to a
limited knowledge of technology and what it can accomplish.

 "People are putting too much faith in technology," said Bruce Schneier,
founder of Counterpane Internet Security. "They don't understand how eye
scanners work or how authentication fits into security. They don't
understand what a national ID card means or haven't read any of the studies
about the effectiveness of security cameras. They're giving opinions based
on superstition, not real facts."

 Nevertheless, the poll's results seem to reflect a general erosion of
public confidence in the federal government, a trend that began decades
ago. For homeland security in particular, nearly 53 percent of respondents
said the government could do more with the technology it already has.

 Zoe Baird, co-chair of the Markle Foundation's Task Force on National
Security in the Information Age, said the lack of faith in the government's
ability to use technology was understandable, until recently. But she said
recent changes in Washington have made her more optimistic.
 "Over the last year, the government, at very senior levels, has finally
come to terms with how technology can make us safer," Baird said. "I hope
that over the course of the next year, the public's faith in government to
use technology to make us safer will increase."

 Party affiliations of respondents to the CNET News.com-Harris Interactive
Poll spanned the political spectrum. About 32 percent said they were
Democrats, and roughly 35 percent identified themselves as Republicans.
Another 11 percent were registered as independents, and the rest gave no
party affiliation.

 Other findings in the poll:

 * 80 percent expressed varying degrees of support for a closed-border policy.

* 69 percent believe that more security at home would improve the nation's
diplomacy.

 * 55 percent say press reports exaggerate the threat of terrorism to their
security.

This survey was conducted online within the United States between Aug. 25
and Sept. 1 among a nationwide cross-section of 1,133 adults of voting age,
all of whom have Internet access. The results carry a statistical sampling
error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

  

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 22 14:46:04 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:46:04 -0400
Subject: Patriot Act redux?
Message-ID: <p0611046dbd9f2fe33ba0@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.com.com/2102-1071_3-5414087.html?tag=st.util.print>



 Patriot Act redux?
 By Declan McCullagh
 http://news.com.com/Patriot+Act+redux/2010-1071_3-5414087.html

 Story last modified October 18, 2004, 4:00 AM PDT



With Election Day fast approaching, it was only a matter of time before the
usual congressional shenanigans that typically punctuate the political
season.

 This time, politicians appear to have seized on what could be called the
Patriot Act strategy, drafting antiterrorism legislation in secret and then
ramming it through the Senate and House of Representatives with minimal
debate. Then it's back to the home districts to boast how they protected
voters from the bad guys.

 The vehicles chosen for this strategy are two bills described as being
inspired by the 9/11 Commission's report, a politically potent text that's
become a best-selling book. The Senate and House have approved their own
versions of the legislation, and negotiators are now meeting privately to
decide on the final draft.

 Early indications are not promising. While portions of the massive
legislation are no doubt praiseworthy, other important sections--especially
those envisioning stuffing more information into government
databases--deserve special scrutiny from privacy hawks.

 Both the House and Senate bills coerce state governments into creating
what critics are calling a national ID card.
 Because the House version is nearly three times as long, its authors had
more room to promote private agendas.

 One section anticipates storing the "lifetime travel history of each
foreign national or United States citizen" into a database for the
convenience of government officials. It mentions passports, but there's
nothing that would preclude recording the details of trips that Americans
take inside the United States.

 President Bush would be required to create a "secure information sharing"
network to exchange data among law enforcement, military and spy agencies.
Aside from a bland assurance that "civil liberties" will be protected,
there are zero details on what databases will be vacuumed in or what
oversight will take place.

 A second network would be created by the first person to get the new job
of national intelligence director. That network must "provide immediate
access to information in databases of federal law enforcement agencies and
the intelligence community that is necessary to identify terrorists."

 It hardly needs to be said that snaring terrorists is what our government
should be doing. But it's not clear that the House bill is a step in the
right direction.

 Jim Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy and
Technology, hopes that the aides negotiating the final bill end up adopting
the Senate language instead. It also would create an information-sharing
network--while requiring that Congress receive semiannual reports on how
the network is being used.

  "There are dozens if not hundreds of government programs under way to do
just that (already)," Dempsey warns. "They are fragmented; they are
overlapping. They are occurring outside of any framework of oversight."

 Still, the Senate bill is no prize. A last-minute amendment added by Sen.
John McCain, R-Ariz., would require the Department of Homeland Security to
create an "integrated screening system" inside the United States.

 McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points,"
near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings,
telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure"
facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary Tom Ridge would
appear to be authorized to issue new federal IDs--with biometric
identifiers--that Americans could be required to show at checkpoints.

 Both the House and Senate bills coerce state governments into creating
what critics are calling a national ID card. Under the proposals, federal
agencies will accept only licenses and state ID cards that comply with
specific to-be-established standards--a requirement that would affect
anyone who wants to get a U.S. passport, obtain Social Security benefits,
or even wander into a federal courthouse.

 That's why Jim Harper, director of information policy studies at the Cato
Institute, is no fan of either bill. "They say that if we just put
appropriate rules and restrictions in place, everything will be fine,"
Harper said. "But of course those rules and restrictions will drop away
over the years or if there are new terrorist attacks. They say, 'Of course
lion-taming is safe. They're our friends.' But then one day the lion grabs
you by the neck and drags you off the stage."

 A few other courageous Washingtonians have raised similar concerns. Rep.
Ron Paul, R-Texas, warned last week that the House bill "will not make
America safer (but will definitely) make us less free." And 25 former
senior officials from the FBI, CIA and military have sent a letter to
Congress indicating that the 9/11 Commission's recommendations are flawed
because the report whitewashed what went wrong on Sept. 11, 2001.

 Unfortunately, with only 15 days left before the election, politicians
will be tempted to place expedience over sober analysis of what's permitted
by the U.S. Constitution. That's what happened in October 2001 with the mad
scramble to enact the Patriot Act, and history is about to repeat itself.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From macavity at well.com  Fri Oct 22 09:47:36 2004
From: macavity at well.com (Will Morton)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:47:36 +0100
Subject: Seld-defeating US foreign policy
In-Reply-To: <4178D107.30266.15E264@localhost>
References: <4177F7D6.6216.2FADD5@localhost>
  <4178D107.30266.15E264@localhost>
Message-ID: <417939A8.9060308@well.com>

James A. Donald wrote:

>
>But Khatami was knackered shortly after being elected, so any 
>aid would be aiding the terrorists.  We saw how well that 
>worked in Fallujah and Sadr city.
>
>  
>
<snip>

>>    June 2001: Khatami re-elected
>>    
>>
>
>A few months or weeks thereafter, Khatami knackered.
>
>  
>
    Hmm.

    Either you're trolling, in which case I salute you as a master of 
your art, or you are wilfully ignorant.

    *plonk*

    W




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 22 18:03:56 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:03:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <21220522.1098493436859.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Sent: Oct 20, 2004 3:10 PM
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity

>Lots of murderous terrorists have been released from Guatanamo, 
>and in the nearly all cases the most serious of their 
>complaints make it sound like a beach resort, except for the 
>fact that they could not leave.

Maybe I missed that.  All but one of the comments I read about involved a lot of complaints about mistreatment, albeit often with the admission that Gitmo was still better than being in an Afghan prison.  As a nitpick, though, it's not at all clear that most of the people at Gitmo were really terrorists, or even murderers.  None of them has had a trial, few have even had hearings, and many were released as not a threat to us.  (They may still be a threat to everyone else around them.)  

>A few have more serious complaints.  Either they are lying or, 
>those who say they were well treated apart from being held 
>captive are lying. 

Surely the other alternative is that only some prisoners are subjected to torture, e.g., the ones that look to have some serious intelligence value.

>         James A. Donald

--John




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 22 18:04:11 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:04:11 -0400
Subject: James A. Donald's insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F15yZty1sh4As0000cf99@hotmail.com>

Sunder wrote...

"Come on, come on, out with it, say it, say it...  That's right!  *Ding*
you're reality challenged."

Well, perhaps, but Mr Donaldson's brain has been turned into a host/vector 
for a very powerful set of memes. In a sense, one can't blame him: He has an 
answer for everything, and his answers emanate from a set of beliefs that 
feel quite consistent in his mind, or at least that can be derived from a 
fairly elementary set of principals. That's a hell of a lot more than I can 
say for most of the rest of us Cypherpunks, for whom the world is a lot more 
complex.

Sometimes, I suspect it would be kind of comfy living in Mr Donald's world: 
Good and Evil are very distinct entities, and you know who they are. 
Unfortunately for me the world looks a hell of a lot more complex and 
shadowy, shades of gray.

Ah well. Pass that crack pipe of absolute certainty over here Mr Donald...

-TD

>From: Sunder <sunder at sunder.net>
>To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>CC: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: James A. Donald's insanity
>Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:06:28 -0400 (edt)
>
>Where did I write to you that it's horrible thing to lock people up in
>Gitmo, or that "we" (whomever that is) deserve to be attacked?  Show me
>the email, with headers that says such a thing.
>
>Oh, wait, you can't, because I never wrote such.
>
>
>Let's see, so you've got lots of people questioning your version of
>various events, and you've got claims that various people wrote things
>that they did not, and lots of people challenging the accuracy and indeed,
>truth of your statements.
>
>Hmmm... So what is the obvious conclusion there?  The whole world must be
>against you?  Nah, you're not important enough to be paranoid.
>
>So, what is the obvious conclusion?  No, no, 2+2 is not 5, even for
>extremely large values of 2...
>
>Come on, come on, out with it, say it, say it...  That's right!  *Ding*
>you're reality challenged.
>
>
>Ah!  There, doesn't that feel better?  Now, please, go back and take your
>meds before the nice men in the white coats come to take you to the funny
>farm.
>
>
>
>----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
>  + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
>   \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
><--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
>   /|\  :                                                             \|/
>  + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>
> >     --
> > On 21 Oct 2004 at 13:41, Sunder wrote:
> > > No you imbecile, I'm telling no one anything, other than you
> > > to get a clue.  Where did I tell people who are under attack
> > > to suck it up?
> >
> > When you tell us it is horrible to lock up in Gautenamo people
> > who show every sign of trying to kill us , and that we deserve
> > their past efforts to kill us, efforts that some of them
> > promptly resumed on release.  We are under attack, and you are
> > telling us to suck it up.

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 22 18:08:34 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:08:34 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F16cFxrPg3mHO0000cf96@hotmail.com>

Well, yes there are counterexamples I guess. The kind of retardation I'm 
talking about seems to happen when the influence in through covert, 
destabilising channels.

Taiwan is a particularly odd example...it definitely has started forming a 
modern economy, but then again it had many decades of oppression. It also 
had swiped billions upon billions of dollars of gold and other substances 
that backed the Chinese monetary system prior to 1949, so arguably that 
money had to go somewhere.

-TD






>From: John Kelsey <kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com>
>Reply-To: John Kelsey <kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com>
>To: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>, jamesd at echeque.com, 
>cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
>Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:59:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
> >From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Oct 19, 2004 10:23 AM
> >To: jamesd at echeque.com, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
> >Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
>
>...
> >In developing markets the US track record is terrible. The more we 
>interfere
> >and set up puppet governments and petty dictators, the result has always
> >been the near elimination of any kind of real modern economy.
>
> >More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out or prevented
> >from influencing have been modernizing rapidly, the most obvious example 
>is
> >China and Vietnam. Bolivia is interesting to watch.
>
>So, Taiwan and South Korea seem like rather obvious counterexamples.
>
> >-TD
>
>--John
>(Not a fan of interventionist foreign policy, FWIW)

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 22 21:41:24 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:41:24 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <21220522.1098493436859.JavaMail.root@grover.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41797E84.21487.2BB9092@localhost>

    --
On 22 Oct 2004 at 0:00, John Kelsey wrote:
> All but one of the comments I read about involved a lot of 
> complaints about mistreatment, albeit often with the 
> admission that Gitmo was still better than being in an Afghan 
> prison. As a nitpick, though, it's not at all clear that most 
> of the people at Gitmo were really terrorists, or even 
> murderers.

Most of them were non Afghans in Afghanistan in the middle of a 
war and no plausible explanation of their presence, which makes 
it fairly certain they had signed up Bin Laden and company.  So 
if they had not personally targeted women and children, they 
had signed up with an organization that they know rapes and 
murders.   Don't give me that moral relativism crap that their 
view of themselves as heroes is as just as valid as our view of 
them as vicious subhuman monsters.

> None of them has had a trial, few have even had hearings, and 
> many were released as not a threat to us.  (They may still be 
> a threat to everyone else around them.)

Different rules apply in war.

Now if the president got away with the principle that an "enemy 
combatant captured in time of war" is anyone the president 
designates as an enemy combatant, *then* I would be worried 
about the fact that they did not get trials and all that.

In a guerilla war or terrorist war, war rules are even more 
dangerous to liberty than usual since the battlefield is 
everywhere.   However in this case the application of the rules 
of war, rather than peace, is legitimate.  They are for the 
most part foreigners picked up in Afghanistan, where the usual 
wartime rule is that if you cannot give a plausible account of 
yourself, they will skin you.

While we should be very concerned that the chronic war on 
terror may lead to rules of war extending to everyday life, 
rules of war are still necessary to deal with large scale 
enemies with the capability to control territory and exclude 
the forces of justice.  We should not apply rules of war to 
some terrorists snatched in New York - that would be dangerous 
to the freedom of the ordinary New Yorker, but if the 
government snatches terrorists in Afghanistan or near Fallujah, 
rules of war should apply.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     L9l0XwGGAOnDTD1f/nlXg15rkevzTJFhQEhPA0e1
     4HxKjMzjQlUTID/enTbsses+z2wda2UXVev2ZKUSS




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 22 21:51:33 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:51:33 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F16cFxrPg3mHO0000cf96@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417980E5.6857.2C4DB9D@localhost>

    --
On 22 Oct 2004 at 21:08, Tyler Durden wrote:
> Taiwan is a particularly odd example...it definitely has
> started forming a modern economy, but then again it had many
> decades of oppression. It also had swiped billions upon
> billions of dollars of gold and other substances that backed
> the Chinese monetary system prior to 1949, so arguably that
> money had to go somewhere.

liar. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Ctgvg/767xVvEfZle9c/+vxKC3xtkjiX3R4NVIxk
     4EMcaYvfC/Hefr1mG/wP4lnapr70KOuFu4ofYdQSC




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 22 19:42:26 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:42:26 -0400
Subject: US enacts tough new security measures on visitors, foreign 
  student pilots
Message-ID: <p061104aebd9f75477fe9@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/print/113045/1/.html>

Channelnewsasia.com

Title
 :
 US enacts tough new security measures on visitors, foreign student pilots

 By
 :


 Date
 :
 23 October 2004 0853 hrs (SST)

 URL
 :
 http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/113045/1/.html



 WASHINGTON: The United States on Friday tightened security measures on
foreign visitors and non-US citizens taking flying lessons.

 The Department of Homeland Security said foreign visitors seeking
admission under the Visa Waiver Program would need machine-readable
passports beginning Tuesday.

 Those not complying will get one free pass and a letter explaining the new
rules, with the one-time exemption noted in the visitor's permanent
computer record, said the DHS.

 A machine-readable passport carries an unalterable barcode containing a
wealth of encrypted information about the bearer, which an immigration
officer can read by scanning the document much like a supermarket checkout
clerk scans food prices.

 The new US passport requirement had been scheduled to take effect a year
ago but was extended to give VWP participating countries time to issue
machine-readable passports and inform their citizens of the new rules.

 Also, the Transportation Security Agency has begun requiring non-US
citizens seeking training at US flight schools to submit to fingerprinting
and provide security data for training on any type or size of aircraft.

 Following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Transportation
Security Act mandated the Justice Department to do threat assessments on
non-US citizens seeking training on aircraft weighing 12,500 pounts or
more, including commercial aircraft.

 This month, new legislation transferred that responsibility to the
Transportation Security Administration and gave enforcers new teeth.

 "September 11 taught us that terrorists exploited the use of US flight
schools," said retired Admiral David Stone, Assistant Secretary of Homeland
Security for TSA. "Fortifying security by knowing who trains at these
schools is an integral part of our mission to secure the homeland."

 The 19 September 11 hijackers who commandeered four commercial airliners
and crashed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in
Pennsylvania trained at US flight schools.

 The tightened security program, the TSA said in a statement, "is designed
to prevent terrorists from receiving pilot training from flight schools.

 "As a prerequisite to flight training, non-US citizens must provide to the
TSA fingerprints, biographical information...and training specifics."

 The flight schools will have to provide the TSA with the student's photo
"to ensure the student reporting for flight training is the same individual
who successfully complete a security threat assessment," it said. - AFP

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct 23 09:12:02 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:12:02 -0700
Subject: US enacts tough new security measures on visitors, foreign 
   student   pilots
Message-ID: <417A82D2.9F0F099F@cdc.gov>

At 10:42 PM 10/22/04 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> :
> US enacts tough new security measures on visitors, foreign student
pilots

Also unmentioned: all foreign flight schools are now heavily
bugged/surveilled
and swarthy and/or moslem students have that fact added to their
Permenant Record.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 23 11:23:17 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:23:17 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041022104908.03a30e50@pop.idiom.com>
References: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
Message-ID: <417A3F25.1160.1F9F09D@localhost>

    --
On 22 Oct 2004 at 11:12, Bill Stewart wrote:
> James - Many, perhaps most, of the POWs at Gitmo weren't
> foreigners, they were Afghans.  Many of the POWs at Gitmo
> probably were Al-Qaeda or other organized paramilitary
> groups.  But many of them were described by the US
> propagandists as "Taliban fighters" - the military arm of the
> local central government who were "legitimate" to the extent
> that any group of warlords who are the current king of the
> hill are legitimate,

Firstly, much of the Taliban is Pakistani, not Afghan.

Secondly, if the Taliban were legitimate, their enemies may
lock them up for the duration of the war as POWs, Since some
elements of the Taliban have not laid down their arms, Taliban
prisoners may held for the duration, as POWs, even if they
fought in a manner equivalent to fighting in uniform.

The Taliban were illegitimate, not on legal grounds, but
because they were evil.

 If someone was in the Taliban, then those threatened by the
Taliban have a strong case for locking him up, just as we
locked up nazis. Thirdly a government that systematically
depopulates large areas of the territory it supposedly rules is
not as legitimate as warlords with genuine local roots and
traditional authority, who for the most part came to power
through religious or military leadership in a spontaneous
revolution against tyranny.  No one in the Northern alliance
ever controlled territory though ethnic cleansing.

I can easily imagine circumstances where ethnic cleansing is a
legitimate response to an intransigent enemy with strong roots
in the local population - but the fact that the Taliban used
such measures shows they did not have strong roots in the local
population. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     CDUSjXr1dmDzlVeda1332HqM96GZ31CTX2n8IhAm
     4Cc7h7PYP1ZhoxEDC8UNo32CFcXQrpBdEEegTPYZ1




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 23 11:23:19 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:23:19 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <30783420.1098551006084.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>

    --
"James A. Donald"
> > All of the terrorists came from countries that were 
> > beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi 
> > Arabia was certainly not under attack.  If they were 
> > Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two 
> > towers, then they would be defending themselves.

John Kelsey
> I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you 
> differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City 
> bombing.

The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers. 
BATF had an office in the Murrah building.

> So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had 
> nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including 
> people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.

Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?

Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing 
business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and
all that. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     F1A5ubUDIrbSNLUuleFdhNEKrRgGGTlY3WAjUS9V
     4IOaq8sP0KR47YXUJterj5PKXQM9mYdBplIzlApRI




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Sat Oct 23 10:03:25 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:03:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <30783420.1098551006084.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>Sent: Oct 22, 2004 12:21 PM
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity

>All of the terrorists came from countries that were
>beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi Arabia
>was certainly not under attack.  If they were Palestinians, and
>they hit the Pentagon but not the two towers, then they would
>be defending themselves.

I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City bombing.  McVeigh (not a branch davidian) wanted to strike back at the BATF for the Waco massacre, so he killed a whole bunch of people, a few of whom were BATF employees, but not, as far as I know, anyone directly involved in the decisions that led to all the deaths in Waco.  The 9/11 hijackers wanted to strike at the US for a variety of reasons, probably mostly that we're a big, visible target, but presumably also that we're propping up states like Saudi Arabia.  So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.

If McVeigh had used a sniper rifle to kill the specific BATF agent who called for the raid/media event on the Branch Davidians' compound, I'd still think he deserved to either die or spend his life in prison, but at least I could somehow fathom the moral decision to do what he'd done--like the pro-life terrorists (ah, the irony) who assassinate abortionists.  They need to be locked up, but you can at least see what they were thinking.  Blowing up a building full of random people because a few of them are associated with some action you really disagree with is just outside the realm of the sort of moral decision I can figure out.  Just like flying planes into buildings full of people with almost nothing to do with what you're really getting at.  

>         James A. Donald

--John Kelsey




From measl at mfn.org  Sat Oct 23 13:14:22 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:14:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>
References: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041023151243.R12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> "James A. Donald"
> > > All of the terrorists came from countries that were
> > > beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi
> > > Arabia was certainly not under attack.  If they were
> > > Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two
> > > towers, then they would be defending themselves.
>
> John Kelsey
> > I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you
> > differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City
> > bombing.
>
> The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers.
> BATF had an office in the Murrah building.

Bzzzt!  Try again.

There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING atf, all the
various branches of the armed services, and a large number of spook proxy
points.


> > So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had
> > nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including
> > people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
>
> Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?
>
> Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing
> business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and
> all that.

Personal knowledge?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Oct 23 15:15:25 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:15:25 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>
References: <30783420.1098551006084.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <E1CLRQa-0002sa-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

There were several USG offices in the Twin Towers, some of
them intelligence. In addition, CIA was located in 7 WTC, along 
with Secret Service and military offices. The military offices
were used as cover for the others. There was far more USG in 
WTC than in Murrah, and the lesson learned in OKC was no doubt 
useful to the attackers: collateral hurt to innocents is magnitudes
more powerful than hitting military targets -- that is what
strategic bombing was invented to demonstrate, not to say 
threatening with WMDs, a practice invented by the US and
which remains its primary defense strategy.

The cause and effect between USG WMD threats and terrorist 
attacks is yet to be fully admitted outside military circles: the
military accepts that innocents will be slaughtered, and the
winner must slaughter the most. 

Terrorism to the military is a nuisance even when a few of its 
troops are picked off.

The losses in Iraq do not even make a blip on expected
casualties of a major war. More military have died in
conventional accidents, murders and suicides around the 
world than have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

But those in the Middle East have greater utility for the military 
to boost its suck for more funds and more "our boys and girls"
sacrifice and more bawling in congress and the presidential 
campaign about protecting the nation, defense cut-back not
even a dream since ever so convienent 9/11.

Murrah bombing helped the battle against homeland militants,
and WTC got the ball rolling for battle overseas.

Who planned them is yet to be revealed, but the usual suspects
don't mean shit.




From measl at mfn.org  Sat Oct 23 13:17:25 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:17:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417A3F25.1160.1F9F09D@localhost>
References: <41771D03.929.1485EC@localhost>
  <417A3F25.1160.1F9F09D@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041023151452.E12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> The Taliban were illegitimate, not on legal grounds, but
> because they were evil.

Using this line of "reasoning", Shrub is ripe for that overdue case of
high velocity lead poisoning.


>  If someone was in the Taliban, then those threatened by the
> Taliban have a strong case for locking him up, just as we
> locked up nazis. Thirdly a government that systematically
> depopulates large areas of the territory it supposedly rules is
> not as legitimate as warlords with genuine local roots and
> traditional authority, who for the most part came to power
> through religious or military leadership in a spontaneous
> revolution against tyranny.

And if the local warlords are also participating in a vast depopulation,
then what?

>  No one in the Northern alliance
> ever controlled territory though ethnic cleansing.
>
> I can easily imagine circumstances where ethnic cleansing is a
> legitimate response to an intransigent enemy with strong roots
> in the local population - but the fact that the Taliban used
> such measures shows they did not have strong roots in the local
> population.


You don't see a circular problem here?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Sat Oct 23 17:25:41 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:25:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F3c00goZolmRB00011bba@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F3c00goZolmRB00011bba@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041023192447.D12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

There are all "givens" to the rest of us - I am trying to fit these
arguments into Donald's Reality Distortion Field.

//Alif



On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:41:45 -0400
> From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
> To: measl at mfn.org, jamesd at echeque.com
> Cc: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
> Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>
> Let us not forget the more tangible 'value' in bombing the WTC and messing
> up things downtown. First of all, the companies in the WTC were, to say the
> least, impacted (actually, the company I work for lost 11 people and
> relocated to NJ for about a year)....hitting them (and their workers) was
> probably not considered "collateral damage" by Al Qaeda, any more than
> bombing German or japanese urban production centers was considered that for
> the allies in WWII. Next comes the financial district and Wall Street as a
> whole. The third (and as it turned out by far the most impactful) was the
> destruction of the Telecom Central Office in #4 World Trade Center, along
> with bringing off-line the big Verizon CO across the street. These actually
> caused Wall Street to be knocked off line for several days, an impact that
> is hard to underestimate. And while I suspect that Al-Qaeda were probably
> unaware in advance of the impact on Telecom, the rest was certainly a
> conscious decision.
>
> -TD
>
> >From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl at mfn.org>
> >To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
> >CC: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
> >Subject: Re: Airport insanity
> >Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:14:22 -0500 (CDT)
> >
> >On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
> >
> > > "James A. Donald"
> > > > > All of the terrorists came from countries that were
> > > > > beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi
> > > > > Arabia was certainly not under attack.  If they were
> > > > > Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two
> > > > > towers, then they would be defending themselves.
> > >
> > > John Kelsey
> > > > I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you
> > > > differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City
> > > > bombing.
> > >
> > > The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers.
> > > BATF had an office in the Murrah building.
> >
> >Bzzzt!  Try again.
> >
> >There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING atf, all the
> >various branches of the armed services, and a large number of spook proxy
> >points.
> >
> >
> > > > So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had
> > > > nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including
> > > > people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
> > >
> > > Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?
> > >
> > > Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing
> > > business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and
> > > all that.
> >
> >Personal knowledge?
> >
> >--
> >Yours,
> >
> >J.A. Terranson
> >sysadmin at mfn.org
> >0xBD4A95BF
> >
> >	"An ill wind is stalking
> >	while evil stars whir
> >	and all the gold apples
> >	go bad to the core"
> >
> >	S. Plath, Temper of Time
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
> School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx
>
>

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 23 16:41:45 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:41:45 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <BAY24-F3c00goZolmRB00011bba@hotmail.com>

Let us not forget the more tangible 'value' in bombing the WTC and messing 
up things downtown. First of all, the companies in the WTC were, to say the 
least, impacted (actually, the company I work for lost 11 people and 
relocated to NJ for about a year)....hitting them (and their workers) was 
probably not considered "collateral damage" by Al Qaeda, any more than 
bombing German or japanese urban production centers was considered that for 
the allies in WWII. Next comes the financial district and Wall Street as a 
whole. The third (and as it turned out by far the most impactful) was the 
destruction of the Telecom Central Office in #4 World Trade Center, along 
with bringing off-line the big Verizon CO across the street. These actually 
caused Wall Street to be knocked off line for several days, an impact that 
is hard to underestimate. And while I suspect that Al-Qaeda were probably 
unaware in advance of the impact on Telecom, the rest was certainly a 
conscious decision.

-TD

>From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl at mfn.org>
>To: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>CC: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:14:22 -0500 (CDT)
>
>On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
>
> > "James A. Donald"
> > > > All of the terrorists came from countries that were
> > > > beneficiaries of an immense amount of US help.  Saudi
> > > > Arabia was certainly not under attack.  If they were
> > > > Palestinians, and they hit the Pentagon but not the two
> > > > towers, then they would be defending themselves.
> >
> > John Kelsey
> > > I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which you
> > > differentiate hitting the two towers from the Oklaholma City
> > > bombing.
> >
> > The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two towers.
> > BATF had an office in the Murrah building.
>
>Bzzzt!  Try again.
>
>There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING atf, all the
>various branches of the armed services, and a large number of spook proxy
>points.
>
>
> > > So they killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom had
> > > nothing to do with what they opposed, but surely including
> > > people who were doing business with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
> >
> > Was McViegh targeting people who do business with BATF?
> >
> > Besides which the terrorists did not target them for doing
> > business with Israel, but for "World Trade" - globalization and
> > all that.
>
>Personal knowledge?
>
>--
>Yours,
>
>J.A. Terranson
>sysadmin at mfn.org
>0xBD4A95BF
>
>	"An ill wind is stalking
>	while evil stars whir
>	and all the gold apples
>	go bad to the core"
>
>	S. Plath, Temper of Time

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct 23 20:27:39 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:27:39 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <417B212B.EC852DAD@cdc.gov>

At 01:03 PM 10/23/04 -0400, John Kelsey wrote:
>Blowing up a building full of random people because a few of them are
associated with >some action you really disagree with is just outside
the realm of the sort of moral decision I >can figure out.  Just like
flying planes into buildings full of people with almost nothing to do
>with what you're really getting at.
>--John Kelsey

Osama et al suffer from the belief that Americans chose their leaders
and thus are responsible for their actions.  They also observe that
the only language americans understand is dead civilians inside the
CONUS.
Ergo WTC feedback.

Tim McV may have somewhat analogously assumed that all Feds would
take notice of his feedback.

(In addition, the WTC demolishion got a disproportionate number
of jews, just as Okla did get a few BATF goons.  But the message was
more generally intended.)

Consider: If a crip whacks your homey, you needn't pop *that* crip to
make your
point.  Any crip will do.  Snipe a few tax collectors and all Caesar's
centurions
take note.

Capiche?




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sat Oct 23 20:36:57 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:36:57 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041023151243.R12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>
Message-ID: <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>

    --
John Kelsey
> > > I'm still trying to understand the moral theory on which
> > > you differentiate hitting the two towers from the
> > > Oklaholma City bombing.

James A. Donald:
> > The pentagon did not have a branch office in the two
> > towers. BATF had an office in the Murrah building.

"J.A. Terranson"
> Bzzzt!  Try again.
>
> There were a number of federales in the towers, INCLUDING
> atf, all the various branches of the armed services, and a
> large number of spook proxy points.

 You guys just keep making up facts.

There were no branches of the armed services in the towers.
You are just spouting bullshit, like the story that Osama Bin
Laden was trained by the CIA, that Saddam was installed in a
CIA coup, and all those similar lies made up to rationalize
terror.  Just a few posts ago someone posted that old one that
the US started the Korean war by attacking North Korea, in
order to make the US rich by imposing poverty on Koreans,
despite the fact that we now have the records of Stalin
ordering the attack, and despite the obvious and dramatic
difference in wealth everywhere between the two sides of the
line where the iron curtain used to be - and still is in Korea.

The same people spout the new lies in the same breath as they
spout the old lies. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     dvBfWIZqEu161Mjru/y6SQOfX5yCTWwAzV2e8e/N
     40oki+XXmhK7vuYZqXY+Sr2pWASXQo+gx9TqdXW7/




From adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm  Sat Oct 23 19:58:23 2004
From: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm (Adam)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:58:23 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost>
References: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost>
Message-ID: <1098586703.4480.207123613@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I am curious, Mr. Donald, how exactly you define the word "terrorist". I
request that your definition be generic; i.e. not a definition like
"anyone who attacks the US".

I'd be willing to bet that you cannot provide a clear generic definition
of "terrorist". Moreover, I can guarantee that you cannot provide a
definition that isn't self-contradictory.

-Adam


On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:59:15 -0700, "James A. Donald"
<jamesd at echeque.com> said:
>     --
> On 19 Oct 2004 at 10:23, Tyler Durden wrote:
> > Most Cypherpunks would agree that free markets are a good
> > thing. Basically, if you leave people alone, they'll figure
> > out how to meet the needs that are out in there and, in the
> > process, get a few of the goodies available to us as vapors
> > on this world. I assume you would agree to this.
> 
> There are however some bad people, who want to conquer and
> rule.  Some of them are nastier than others.  Those people need
> to be killed.   Killing some of them is regrettably
> controversial.  Killing terrorists should not be controversial.
> 
> > More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out
> > or prevented from influencing have been modernizing rapidly,
> > the most obvious example is China and Vietnam.
> 
> Your history is back to front. China and Vietnam stagnated,
> until they invited capitalists back in, and promised they could
> get rich.  Mean while the countries that we were not "kicked
> out of" for example Taiwan and South Korea, became rich.
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      y7IV2I3RzvTRwezbeYDac49MQJFtu4pLd09CpaV1
>      4wwT8kfGpRCZY7aO/mhgeoOcaR9vYeYFWae8aMM/M




From adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm  Sat Oct 23 20:11:55 2004
From: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm (Adam)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:11:55 -0400
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F31xhJTANZwwP00018876@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1098587515.6153.207123704@webmail.messagingengine.com>

The problem is, of course, that the US simply cannot keep their dicks
out of the affairs of other countries. We are obsessed with controlling
how the world develops, so as to guarantee to force countries to evolve
in such a way that is beneficial to the US. Such is an inevitable hazard
of becoming the last remaining super-power; we know we can control the
world, and have now (with the declaration of war in Iraq) let the world
know that there's nothing anyone can do about it. 

The US wants the world to operate like a giant corporation run by old
white fudge-packers who smile on TV and fuck us all behind closed doors.
Terrorism, as you say, is the response of other countries who violently
resent American involvement in affairs that, at their core, have nothing
to do with the US. Unfortunately, the US's "war on terror" completely
misses this point, and only serves to further the problem. 

Sure, we might kill a few existing "terrorists", but where do
"terrorists" come from? Won't these actions create a larger and more
hostile breeding ground for more people to lash out at US involvement in
foreign affairs? The US government just doesn't understand, or just
doesn't care.

-Adam

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:21:06 -0400, "Tyler Durden"
<camera_lumina at hotmail.com> said:
> >War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of peace.  The 
> >question is where the war is to be fought - in America, or elsewhere.  War 
> >within America will surely destroy freedom.
> 
> So. Why don't we see terrorist attacks in Sweden, or Switzerland, or
> Belgium 
> or any other country that doesn't have any military or Imperliast
> presence 
> in the middle east? Is this merely a coincidence?
> 
> What I strongly suspect is that if we were not dickin' around over there
> in 
> their countries, the threat of terrorism on US soil would diminish to
> very 
> nearly zero. In other words, we DO have a choice of peace, and our choice 
> was to pass on it.
> 
> -TD
> 
> >From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
> >To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
> >Subject: Re: Airport insanity
> >Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700
> >
> >     --
> >Thomas Shaddack:
> > >  > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who
> > >  > > knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a
> > >  > > ground to blacklist *you*.
> >
> >James A. Donald:
> > >  > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people
> > >  > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)
> >
> >Bill Stewart
> > > More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being
> > > accused of funding terrorist activities.
> >
> >When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money
> >laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but
> >they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly,
> >even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly,
> >for if they stopped them from doing business there would be
> >nothing to steal.
> >
> >When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek
> >to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using
> >repressive measures against everyone.
> >
> >We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't
> >sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists
> >are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the
> >more he looks like a patriot.
> >
> >When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to
> >kill and destroy.  Lashing out an external enemy, real or
> >imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal
> >enemies.  We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice
> >between war against external or internal enemies.   Clearly,
> >war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.
> >
> >War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of
> >peace.  The question is where the war is to be fought - in
> >America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely destroy
> >freedom.
> >
> >What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front
> >and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as
> >big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a
> >threat as Middle Eastern Muslims.
> >
> >     --digsig
> >          James A. Donald
> >      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
> >      cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD
> >      4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
> to 
> School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm  Sat Oct 23 20:26:47 2004
From: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm (Adam)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:26:47 -0400
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417522F0.25614.2ADE804@localhost>
  <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <1098588407.6637.207124209@webmail.messagingengine.com>

This brings up thoughts of prior debates on whether or not US citizens
are subject to the International Court. We (the US) are making a habit
of forcing our laws on other countries, but yet we are not subject to
the laws of an established INTERNATIONAL court; one who's laws are
created from a consensus of people of many nations and backgrounds. The
hypocrisy of the "Bush Doctrine" is simply mind-boggling.

-Adam


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:31:16 -0500 (CDT), "J.A. Terranson"
<measl at mfn.org> said:
> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
> 
> > ... but Bin Laden's indictment
> > not only mentions US troops in Saudi Arabia, but also the
> > reconquest of Spain, the massacre committed by the crusaders in
> > Jerusalem, and the failure of Americans to obey Shariah law.
> 
> Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?  The US can go
> after BL for not following US [constitutional] law, so why can't he come
> after us for not following Shariah (or any other) law?
> 
> This is but one of the many fatal flaws in the Bush Doctrine of
> nation-building.
> 
> >     --digsig
> >          James A. Donald
> 
> -- 
> Yours,
> 
> J.A. Terranson
> sysadmin at mfn.org
> 0xBD4A95BF
> 
> 	"An ill wind is stalking
> 	while evil stars whir
> 	and all the gold apples
> 	go bad to the core"
> 
> 	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm  Sat Oct 23 20:37:02 2004
From: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm (Adam)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:37:02 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>
References: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>
  <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>
Message-ID: <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>

You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that
he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered. It is
quite apparent from reading his responses that he is obviously an
exceptionally intelligent (academically anyway) individual. I find it
hard to believe that such intelligence could reside in a person with
such critically flawed core beliefs. 

I have a hunch that Mr. Donald is instead playing the role of an
elaborate "devil's advocate", furiously defending his stance against
retaliations by our fellow Cypherpunks. Tyler Durden mentioned this
hypothesis many emails ago, and I believe him to be accurate, especially
since Mr. Donald never responded to the charge.

None-the-less, this has been one of the more inteteresting (and
infuriating) threads in recent memory of Cypherpunks. I'm glad we're
going through it with such vigor.

-Adam


On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700, "James A. Donald"
<jamesd at echeque.com> said:
>     --
> Thomas Shaddack:
> >  > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who 
> >  > > knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a 
> >  > > ground to blacklist *you*.
> 
> James A. Donald:
> >  > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people 
> >  > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)
> 
> Bill Stewart
> > More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being 
> > accused of funding terrorist activities.
> 
> When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money 
> laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but 
> they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly, 
> even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly, 
> for if they stopped them from doing business there would be 
> nothing to steal.
> 
> When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek 
> to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using 
> repressive measures against everyone.
> 
> We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't 
> sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists 
> are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the 
> more he looks like a patriot.
> 
> When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to 
> kill and destroy.  Lashing out an external enemy, real or 
> imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal 
> enemies.  We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice 
> between war against external or internal enemies.   Clearly, 
> war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.
> 
> War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of 
> peace.  The question is where the war is to be fought - in 
> America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely destroy 
> freedom.
> 
> What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front 
> and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as 
> big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a
> threat as Middle Eastern Muslims. 
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD
>      4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 23 21:04:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 00:04:35 -0400
Subject: James may be a dick, but y'all sound like pussies to me...(was 
  Re: Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>  
  <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost> 
  <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <p06110463bda0d4d9e81f@[66.149.49.5]>

At 11:37 PM -0400 10/23/04, Adam wrote:
>You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that
>he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered.

No, that was Tim May. The world champion troll if there ever was one --
among other things. :-).

James is right, of course. He may be a dick, but you guys are starting to
sound an awful lot like assholes. Or maybe just pussies who are full of
shit. :-).

See below for details, and click the link, if you want more gems. Better
yet, go see the movie. I'm still laughing.


BTW, the correct response to my argument, above, the one Tim would take,
anyway, is that Team America is puerile, and so, he might add in passing,
am I for citing it. Don't forget to do Tim May mocking Team America with a
perfectly puerile imitation, or something, while you're at it. Don't forget
to correct their or my grammar, haircuts, etc., either, for that matter...

Cheers,
RAH
-------

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/quotes>



Memorable Quotes from
Team America: World Police (2004)

Gary Johnston : We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And
the Film Actors Guild are pussies. And Kim Jong Il is an asshole. Pussies
dont like dicks because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck
assholes. Assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think
they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck a
asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is they fuck too
much or fuck when it isn't appropriate. And it takes a pussy to show them
that. But sometimes pussies can be so full of shit that they become
assholes themselves. Because pussies are a inch and half away from
assholes. I don't know much about this crazy crazy world, but I do know
this. If you don't let us fuck this asshole we're going to have our dicks
and pussies all covered in shit.




-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 03:43:51 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:43:51 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098586703.4480.207123613@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost>
Message-ID: <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost>

    --
On 23 Oct 2004 at 22:58, Adam wrote:
> I am curious, Mr. Donald, how exactly you define the word
> "terrorist". I request that your definition be generic; i.e.
> not a definition like "anyone who attacks the US".On 23 Oct
> 2004 at 22:58, Adam wrote: I am curious, Mr. Donald, how
> exactly you define the word "terrorist". I request that your
> definition be generic; i.e. not a definition like "anyone who
> attacks the US".

Terrorist:  One who uses terror as a means of coercion.

The word was originally coined to describe the committee of
public safety created by the french revolution, and was
subsequently used to decribe similar regimes, most of them
revolutionary, for example Lenin's.  However it is equally
applicable to non government groups who use similar measures. 
The difference between guerrilas and non government terrorists
is that terrorists target random innocents - for example
blowing up schoolchildren for accepting candy from US soldiers,
as recently happened in Iraq.  Similarly the deliberately
capricious executions by most communist regimes, intended to
produce a sense of fear and helplessness in their subjects.

McViegh did not target innocents.  Bin Laden did target
innocents. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Kiq2Py/gfRNvDbIgFETkSh12S9ilsTHs1STZ0G+i
     4YtWt9FfhBsS+aa3NSU17iXdsABNEuxtdCDwkYKjY




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 03:53:55 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:53:55 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041023151452.E12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417A3F25.1160.1F9F09D@localhost>
Message-ID: <417B2753.19890.2639C0@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > The Taliban were illegitimate, not on legal grounds, but 
> > because they were evil.

J.A. Terranson
> Using this line of "reasoning", Shrub is ripe for that 
> overdue case of high velocity lead poisoning.

Doubtless he is, but to suggest that he is comparably evil to 
the taliban casts doubt on your sanity.

James A. Donald:
> > Thirdly a government that systematically depopulates large 
> > areas of the territory it supposedly rules is not as 
> > legitimate as warlords with genuine local roots and 
> > traditional authority, who for the most part came to power 
> > through religious or military leadership in a spontaneous 
> > revolution against tyranny.

J.A. Terranson
> And if the local warlords are also participating in a vast 
> depopulation, then what?

But the "Warlords" are not.  Under the Taliban, huge numbers of 
people fled Afghanistan, under the Northern alliance, they 
returned. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     qMEkoNR+blkRZmztAFF4sDeSBoKW6Qe4JhwStmV
     4j0SHTtKdNY/S/nI2Tmj5ngKX5y1hL7JFg7xma9t5




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 04:00:34 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 04:00:34 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041023192447.D12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <BAY24-F3c00goZolmRB00011bba@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417B28E2.30573.2C51C4@localhost>

    --
On 23 Oct 2004 at 19:25, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> There are all "givens" to the rest of us - I am trying to fit
> these arguments into Donald's Reality Distortion Field.

Is it also a "given" to you, as it is to Tyler, that the US
attacked North Korea, and that the reason for this attack was
to make Koreans poor so that Americans could be rich?

Is it also a given to you that the CIA trained Bin Laden?

Is it also a given to you that the CIA installed Saddam?

Is it a given to you, as it is to Tyler, that the countries on
the communist side of the former iron curtain were more
successful economically than their neighbors or countrymen on
the other side?

Is it a given to you that Jews did not turn up for work in the
two towers the day they fell?

Is it a given to you that Arbenz was democratically elected, and that 
the guerrilas in Guatemala were an indigenous popular movement that 
could have won free and fair elections had they been permitted?

Is it a given to you that Alger Hiss was framed?

Perhaps you need to check some of these givens.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     2xBHaKKtew47vYubi0WVdchRmiM1osWLaPLEM3IJ
     4th8Ep6rf2PcPWOoYxyby9cpMSlFehq6Z+8yzjPuc




From gnu at toad.com  Sun Oct 24 04:44:16 2004
From: gnu at toad.com (John Gilmore)
Date: October 24, 2004 4:44:16 AM EDT
Subject: TSA Says It Can Decide Who Can Learn
Message-ID: <mailman.1054.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

[for I-P]

TSA has started issuing "Learner's Permits" and demanding that people
who wish to learn get a Learner's Permit from TSA.  Every innocent
student is to be forced to be "assessed" for their "threat potential".

This violates the fundamental right of freedom of inquiry, which is
guaranteed to all persons in the United States, whether they are
citizens or not.

For the moment, these permits are only required if you want to learn
about flying, but I predict that they will soon be required for other
areas of forbidden knowledge.  Unless the education community and the
citizenry reject the whole concept that the government can tell them
who is permitted to study and what subjects they are permitted to learn.

Don't worry though -- today it only applies at a few schools, and only
to non-US citizens.  It only delays the student by four to six weeks,
and only requires them to provide their full name, passport and visa,
current photograph, specifics about their course of study, and
$130.  Approval is, of course, not guaranteed.

It doesn't threaten *you* -- probably.  By the time they come for your
school and your students and your subject, nobody will remember who
Rev. Martin Niemoller was.

	John Gilmore


October 22, 2004

Media Contact: TSA Public Affairs
571-227-2829

TSA Takes Over Security Threat Assessments on Non-U.S. Citizens Seeking
Flight School Training
Agency also expands program scope to include non-commercial pilot
candidates

LONG BEACH, CALIF. -- The Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
today announced it is now requiring security threat assessments for
non-U.S. citizens seeking training at U.S. flight schools, regardless of
the type and size of the aircraft.

Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the Aviation and
Transportation Security Act mandated the U.S. Department of Justice to
conduct threat assessments for non-U.S. citizens who sought training on
aircraft weighing 12,500 pounds or more including commercial aircraft.
Vision 100 -- Century of Aviation Reauthorization Act transferred this
responsibility from Justice to TSA as of October 5, 2004.

"September 11th taught us that terrorists exploited the use of U.S
flight
schools," said Rear Adm. David M. Stone, USN (Ret.), Assistant Secretary
of Homeland Security for TSA.  "Fortifying security by knowing who
trains
at these schools is an integral part of our mission to secure the
homeland."

The program is designed to prevent terrorists from receiving pilot
training from flight schools.  As a prerequisite to flight training,
non-U.S. citizens must provide to TSA fingerprints, biographical
information, including full name, passport and visa information, and
training specifics such as the type of aircraft the candidate seeks
instruction to operate.

In addition to security assessments, TSAs new initiative will:

*  Streamline the threat assessment process from 45 to 30 days for most
applicants, and 5 days for some

*  Require flight schools to submit a students photograph to TSA to
ensure the student reporting for flight training is the same individual
who successfully completed a security threat assessment

*  Implement an application fee of $130 for the security threat
assessment

*  Require flight schools to provide security awareness training for
appropriate staff on an annual basis.  To help fulfill this requirement,
TSA plans to offer an on-line course on the agencys Web site within a
few
weeks.

Beginning this week, TSA will accept applications for non-U.S. citizens
seeking flight training in aircraft weighing 12,500 pounds or less who
do
not currently hold a FAA or foreign pilots certificate.  Starting on
December 19, 2004, TSA will accept applications for all non-U.S.
citizens
who seek training in aircraft weighing 12,500 pounds or less, including
those who already have an airmans certificate and seeking additional
training for a new certificate and/or rating.

For more information, please visit our Web site at www.tsa.gov and click
on "Industry Partners" and find "Flight Training for non-U.S. Citizens."

# # #


-------------------------------------
You are subscribed as eugen at leitl.org
To manage your subscription, go to
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----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 24 05:50:11 2004
From: jtrjtrjtr2001 at yahoo.com (Sarad AV)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 05:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blowfish C code still chokes
In-Reply-To: <417B28E2.30573.2C51C4@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041024125011.68027.qmail@web21206.mail.yahoo.com>

hello,

The C code for the blowfish encryption algorithm
posted in Mr.Schneier's site, acocording to Michael.B
still 'chokes' as it is not corrected even though the
bug report, mentions that it is a fatal bug.
The bug report is available at
http://www.schneier.com/blowfish-bug.txt 

His opinion is that the code  still 'chokes' in
http://www.schneier.com/code/bfsh-sch.zip 


Though Mr.Mike Morgan in the bug report attrbutes the
bug to "non-standard use of the 'union' construct", I
think it is automatic type cast form type signed char
to unsigned long,is responsible for this bug. 

Please see his comments below.

Regards,
Sarad A.V

Forwarded on request by Michael.B
---------------------------------

Also the bug IS a very serious security issue if you
read into the bug doc, making Blowfish a very easy
crackable cipher... and yes you are right every
responsible programmer should use test vectors etc., I
do, but how do I know someone else did if I can't
review the code and have no other means of testing,
for example with (proper - see below) test vectors? 

And... (you really did not read into the bug-doc)...
standard test vectors DO NOT SHOW the bug. Which is
why it is such an evil one, aside the extreme security
loss. 

150 products use Blowfish so far, as counterpane.org
states, and many of them don't have a verification
scheme at all. I recall a Secure Shell for example,
implementing Blowfish as an optional cipher to choose
from among others. Now with that (commercial) product
I would choose Blowfish never more since I can't
review the code or test with selected test vectors.
And this is the point. The bug thing coming directly
from Schneier does create a general distrust in
Blowfish for me.

now this is an ORIGINAL quote from the bug-describing
doc taking direct from schneier's website. 

next, please consider this ORIGINAL paste of the
ref-installation by schneier 

short InitializeBlowfish(char key[], short keybytes) 
{ 
   unsigned long  data; 

  ... //lots of code ommitted 

      j = 0; 
      for (i = 0; i < N + 2; ++i) { 
        data = 0x00000000; 
        for (k = 0; k < 4; ++k) { 
          data = (data << 8) | key[j]; //(my comment)
CHOKE! see above 

   ...
}

The discussion is available here

http://www.security-forums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21640&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=8



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 




From dave at farber.net  Sun Oct 24 03:27:32 2004
From: dave at farber.net (David Farber)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 06:27:32 -0400
Subject: [IP] TSA Says It Can Decide Who Can Learn
Message-ID: <mailman.1055.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>



Begin forwarded message:


From eugen at leitl.org  Sat Oct 23 22:38:38 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 07:38:38 +0200
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost>
  <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>
  <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20041024053838.GC1457@leitl.org>

On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 11:37:02PM -0400, Adam wrote:

> None-the-less, this has been one of the more inteteresting (and
> infuriating) threads in recent memory of Cypherpunks. I'm glad we're
> going through it with such vigor.

That thread bores me to tears.

I miss technical content. Or, at least, a few pointers of where the action
is. I'm tinkering with Nehemiah's RNG (/dev/hw_random is next to useless
without a patch), and about to start using PadLock patches, once C5P hardware
arrives. I'm also going to look into OpenBSD, once 3.6 is up on mirrors.

What is happening in TCP/IP level traffic remixing? P2P apps? Can someone in
the know provide a boilerplate, or at least a list of raw URLs?

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From roy at rant-central.com  Sun Oct 24 08:58:32 2004
From: roy at rant-central.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 11:58:32 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost>
References: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost> 	
  <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost>
Message-ID: <1098633512.11829.16.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>

On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 03:43 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

> McViegh did not target innocents.  Bin Laden did target
> innocents. 

I'm confused.  Is Mr. Donald saying McVeigh did not surveil his target
sufficiently to know that there was a day care center in the damage
pattern?  Or is he saying it only takes one "non-innocent" in a damage
zone to justify an attack? (in which case, how is he privy to Bin
Laden's attack plan, such that he can rule out any "non-innocent"
targets)

Or is the problem perhaps that any reasonable definition of "terrorist"
must describe both McVeigh and Bin Laden?  Ends do not justify means.  A
reasonable man would argue that attacking an occupied building with
highly destructive weapons is an act intended to incite terror, without
needing to even consider the motive.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is roy at rant-central.com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 12:09:26 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:09:26 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <1098588407.6637.207124209@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <417B9B76.8517.1EC0AF6@localhost>

    --
Adam:
> This brings up thoughts of prior debates on whether or not US 
> citizens are subject to the International Court. We (the US) 
> are making a habit of forcing our laws on other countries, 
> but yet we are not subject to the laws of an established 
> INTERNATIONAL court; one who's laws are created from a 
> consensus of people of many nations and backgrounds. The 
> hypocrisy of the "Bush Doctrine" is simply mind-boggling.

The same consensus as runs the international human rights 
commission that condemns Israel while blessing Sudan?

The ICC and the world court have a track record that resembles 
the lowest common demoninator of the governments that sponsor 
it - They support tyrrany, terror, and slavery, and shattering 
confiscation of property.

For all that is wrong with the US government, remember the 
condition  of people under the great majority of the world: 
poverty and fear, where the political privilege of a few 
shatters the economy and forces the vast majority into poverty, 
for example India, Burma, Nigeria, Vietnam, Pakistan, Cuba 
Indonesia, and all the rest.

If we were subject to the power of those governments that 
compose the majority of the world's governments, we would be as 
poor, unfree, and frightened as the subjects of those 
governments. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     FIkvqRtdx4mKda8MY0+7FCzRw09CvdTSH2IjDCV3
     4H7vUDccMZaaLjHdsx+DkMirimYrUgLbOx8ZpmAjm




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 12:19:29 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:19:29 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>
Message-ID: <417B9DD1.24166.1F53FC9@localhost>

    --
On 23 Oct 2004 at 23:37, Adam wrote:
> You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I
> believe that he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have
> ever encountered.

Why don't you pick one particular factual claim, for example
that Bin Laden was a CIA agent, and defend it, instead of
confidently asserting all this wild baloney, and deffending
past baloney with an endless stream of new baloney, pronounced
with equal confidence? 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     xOlAusokL6372cJOfxYIKssrD7fRmaOORj2kjput
     4y6M4TN/NDS5VmHOHQML2KCnZmUaNTCeosglcxYJE




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 12:49:50 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:49:50 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098633512.11829.16.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
References: <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost>
Message-ID: <417BA4EE.648.2110924@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > McViegh did not target innocents.  Bin Laden did target 
> > innocents.

Roy M. Silvernail
> I'm confused.  Is Mr. Donald saying McVeigh did not surveil 
> his target sufficiently to know that there was a day care 
> center in the damage pattern?

Bin Laden's intent was to make anyone in America afraid - thus 
the use of airliners, rather than truck bombs.   McViegh's 
intent was to make BATF afraid.

Analogously, in Iraq, the murder of schoolchildren for 
accepting candy from Americans, the use of children as human 
shields.

If group A, acting as an organized cohesive entity with single 
central will, makes people belonging to group B rationally 
afraid by violent and evil acts, and someone in group B strikes 
back at group A in order to make group A afraid to do wrong, 
this is not terrorism, even if innocents happen to get in the 
way. If instead he goes after the guy who washes the windows
for someone in group A, and the friend of the little sister in 
someone in group A, and the child who smiled at someone in 
group A, this is terrorism. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     9z/D+14dhYWqJz3LanaRzjhsYSdPrA+GrFSJrVNJ
     4lnTkcOSZD+o/0b5hjEfABYlF305Ice+SWzVDUsTs




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 12:49:52 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:49:52 -0700
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041024132038.X12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>
Message-ID: <417BA4F0.5827.211118D@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald wrote:
> >  You guys just keep making up facts.
> >
> > There were no branches of the armed services in the towers. 
> > You are just spouting bullshit, like the story that Osama 
> > Bin Laden was trained by the CIA, that Saddam was installed 
> > in a CIA coup, and all those similar lies made up to 
> > rationalize terror.

"J.A. Terranson" <measl at mfn.org>
> OK - I'm out of this "discussion".  This is either just the 
> worlds most elaborate troll, or Donald's brain is dense 
> enough to used when we finally run out of depleted uranium.

In other words you are not willing to either disown or defend 
any of the claims listed above.  Like Chomsky, you want to 
imply they are obviously true, without quite committing 
yourself to say in so many words that they are true.

Nail your colors to the mast. Pick one of the above and defend
it. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Z+DB496uVoR/FHJetoWJv6cYEL8yFUDYet7Av/Hs
     4SdfwHFAFX9A0KROEm1bmE/hxcqwo480srRy24zrC




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 11:13:45 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:13:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098633512.11829.16.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
References: <4174E573.7315.1BDB5AF@localhost> 
  <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost> 
  <1098633512.11829.16.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
Message-ID: <20041024131034.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:

> > McViegh did not target innocents.  Bin Laden did target
> > innocents.
>
> I'm confused.

So is Mr. Donald.

>  Is Mr. Donald saying McVeigh did not surveil his target
> sufficiently to know that there was a day care center in the damage
> pattern?  Or is he saying it only takes one "non-innocent" in a damage
> zone to justify an attack? (in which case, how is he privy to Bin
> Laden's attack plan, such that he can rule out any "non-innocent"
> targets)

No, Mr. Donald is demonstrating irrational thought processes.

You see, McVeigh isn't a terrorist because he had purity of purpose.  But
Bin Laden IS a terrorist because he had purity of purpose.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 11:16:22 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F23HzGkzMcvsq0001b85a@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F23HzGkzMcvsq0001b85a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041024131514.W12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

> I've just never
> encountered anyone who had NO doubt about anything the current regime is
> doing.

Really?  I have - every single person voting for Shrub seems to be
exhibiting this particular blindness.

> -TD

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 11:22:36 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:22:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>
References: <417A3F27.19934.1F9F73A@localhost>
  <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041024132038.X12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

>  You guys just keep making up facts.
>
> There were no branches of the armed services in the towers.
> You are just spouting bullshit, like the story that Osama Bin
> Laden was trained by the CIA, that Saddam was installed in a
> CIA coup, and all those similar lies made up to rationalize
> terror.

OK - I'm out of this "discussion".  This is either just the worlds most
elaborate troll, or Donald's brain is dense enough to used when we finally
run out of depleted uranium.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 24 10:24:16 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:24:16 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
Message-ID: <BAY24-F23HzGkzMcvsq0001b85a@hotmail.com>

>I have a hunch that Mr. Donald is instead playing the role of an
>elaborate "devil's advocate", furiously defending his stance against
>retaliations by our fellow Cypherpunks. Tyler Durden mentioned this
>hypothesis many emails ago, and I believe him to be accurate, especially
>since Mr. Donald never responded to the charge.

Well, specifically my suspicion was (and to some extent still is) that part 
of Mr Donald's job description may involve posting to cypherpunks...he may 
be part of some Ministry of Love somewhere, probably in the DC beltway.

Either that or perhaps it's not an official part of his job, but he's trying 
to defend the actions he takes as part of his job. I've just never 
encountered anyone who had NO doubt about anything the current regime is 
doing.

-TD



>From: "Adam" <adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity
>Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:37:02 -0400
>
>You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that
>he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered. It is
>quite apparent from reading his responses that he is obviously an
>exceptionally intelligent (academically anyway) individual. I find it
>hard to believe that such intelligence could reside in a person with
>such critically flawed core beliefs.
>
>I have a hunch that Mr. Donald is instead playing the role of an
>elaborate "devil's advocate", furiously defending his stance against
>retaliations by our fellow Cypherpunks. Tyler Durden mentioned this
>hypothesis many emails ago, and I believe him to be accurate, especially
>since Mr. Donald never responded to the charge.
>
>None-the-less, this has been one of the more inteteresting (and
>infuriating) threads in recent memory of Cypherpunks. I'm glad we're
>going through it with such vigor.
>
>-Adam
>
>
>On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:39:05 -0700, "James A. Donald"
><jamesd at echeque.com> said:
> >     --
> > Thomas Shaddack:
> > >  > > It isn't a problem for you until it happens to you. Who
> > >  > > knows when being interested in anon e-cash will become a
> > >  > > ground to blacklist *you*.
> >
> > James A. Donald:
> > >  > I know when it will happen.  It will happen when people
> > >  > interested in anon ecash go on suicide missions.   :-)
> >
> > Bill Stewart
> > > More likely, when anon ecash money-launderers start being
> > > accused of funding terrorist activities.
> >
> > When e-currency handlers (cambists) are accused of money
> > laundering terrorist's money, the feds steal the money, but
> > they do not obstruct them from travelling, or, surprisingly,
> > even from doing business - well, perhaps not so surprisingly,
> > for if they stopped them from doing business there would be
> > nothing to steal.
> >
> > When the state uses repressive measures against those that seek
> > to murder us, there is still a large gap between that and using
> > repressive measures against everyone.
> >
> > We are not terrorists, we don't look like terrorists, we don't
> > sound like terrorists. Indeed, the more visible real terrorists
> > are, the less even Tim McViegh looks like a terrorist and the
> > more he looks like a patriot.
> >
> > When people are under attack they are going to lash out, to
> > kill and destroy.  Lashing out an external enemy, real or
> > imaginary, is a healthy substitute for lashing out at internal
> > enemies.  We do not have a choice of peace, merely a choice
> > between war against external or internal enemies.   Clearly,
> > war against external enemies is less dangerous to freedom.
> >
> > War is dangerous to freedom, but we do not have a choice of
> > peace.  The question is where the war is to be fought - in
> > America, or elsewhere.  War within America will surely destroy
> > freedom.
> >
> > What we need to fear is those that talk about the home front
> > and internal security, those who claim that Christians are as
> > big a threat as Muslims - or that black Muslims are as big a
> > threat as Middle Eastern Muslims.
> >
> >     --digsig
> >          James A. Donald
> >      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
> >      cGrCJvmIhJnYLWO2RB3qmnqijcHlOOsA7iklRoZD
> >      4Ar75eLN10XbfJw/mqPpGQeUW0SzMlz4CLrpHIeEe

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 24 10:27:34 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:27:34 -0400
Subject: FATF cracks down on cash movements
Message-ID: <p06110486bda19529fbbd@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.philstar.com/philstar/News200410250404.htm>

Philstar.com - The Filipino Global Community
 
  HEADLINE NEWS

 FATF cracks down on cash movements

By Des Ferriols
The Philippine Star 10/25/2004

  

The Paris-based Financial Action Task Force (FATF) against money laundering
has passed a new measure requiring countries to crack down on the movement
of cash across borders.

The measure came in the wake of the scandal involving Armed Forces of the
Philippines (AFP) Maj. Gen. Carlos Garcia, whose two sons were apprehended
by US Customs personnel for failure to declare $100,000 in cash as they
entered the US through Los Angeles in December last year.

Officials said they expected the Philippines' Anti-Money Laundering Council
(AMLC) to use the Garcia case as an example in persuading Congress to pass
new legislative measures that would strengthen the Anti-Money Laundering
Act (AMLA).

 Meeting for its October plenary session, the FATF passed a measure known
as Special Recommendation IX calling on countries to stop cross-border
movements of currency and monetary instruments related to terrorist
financing and money laundering.

The FATF said countries should confiscate such funds while sharing
information on the movement of illicit cash related to terrorist financing
or money laundering.

"We want to put an end to cash smuggling used to fund terrorism and
criminal activities," said FATF president Jean-Louis Fort. "We're going to
make it tougher to move terrorist money across borders and make it harder
for terrorists to operate."

According to Fort, the FATF would now require countries to institute
measures to detect the physical cross-border transportation of currency and
bearer-negotiable financial instruments. This would include a declaration
system or other disclosure obligation.

The FATF's Recommendation IX also required countries to ensure that their
competent authorities have the legal muscle to stop or restrain currency or
bearer-negotiable instruments that are suspected to be related to terrorist
financing or money laundering, or that are falsely declared or disclosed.

"Countries should ensure that effective, proportionate and dissuasive
sanctions are available to deal with persons who make false declaration(s)
or disclosure(s)," the FATF said. "In cases where the currency or bearer
negotiable instruments are related to terrorist financing or money
laundering, countries should also adopt measures, including legislative
ones consistent with Recommendation III and Special Recommendation III,
which would enable the confiscation of such currency or instruments."

During the meeting, the FATF announced that it was withdrawing the
counter-measures against Myanmar and Nauru, as these countries have now
introduced new measures to remedy anti-money laundering deficiencies.

 The FATF said Myanmar enacted rules for the Mutual Assistance in Criminal
Matters Law on Oct. 14, while the rich island nation of Nauru has taken
several significant steps to ensure that offshore banks previously licensed
in Nauru no longer exist and no longer conduct banking activity there.

 However, both countries will remain on the list of non-cooperative
countries and territories (NCCTs) until they address the remaining
deficiencies and adequately implement the necessary laws, the FATF said.

 Fort also said the FATF welcomed the additional progress made by the Cook
Islands, Indonesia and the Philippines, confirming that the task force
planned to visit these countries to confirm the effective implementation of
their reforms.

The current list of NCCT countries includes: The Cook Islands, Indonesia,
Myanmar, Nauru, Nigeria and the Philippines. The FATF said these countries
would be delisted after working towards ensuring that they were
implementing effective anti-money laundering/counter-terrorist financing
systems.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 12:21:15 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:21:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <417B9B76.8517.1EC0AF6@localhost>
References: <20041020062904.M12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
  <417B9B76.8517.1EC0AF6@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041024141837.Y12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> The ICC and the world court have a track record that resembles
> the lowest common demoninator of the governments that sponsor
> it - They support tyrrany, terror, and slavery, and shattering
> confiscation of property.

Agreed.


> For all that is wrong with the US government, remember the
> condition  of people under the great majority of the world:
> poverty and fear, where the political privilege of a few
> shatters the economy and forces the vast majority into poverty,
> for example India, Burma, Nigeria, Vietnam, Pakistan, Cuba
> Indonesia, and all the rest.

You forgot to list the US.

> If we were subject to the power of those governments that
> compose the majority of the world's governments, we would be as
> poor, unfree, and frightened as the subjects of those
> governments.

And we are not?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Sun Oct 24 11:46:16 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:46:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Airport insanity
Message-ID: <22586327.1098643576627.JavaMail.root@donald.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 23, 2004 7:41 PM
>To: measl at mfn.org, jamesd at echeque.com
>Cc: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Airport insanity

>Let us not forget the more tangible 'value' in bombing the WTC and messing 
>up things downtown. First of all, the companies in the WTC were, to say the 
>least, impacted (actually, the company I work for lost 11 people and 
>relocated to NJ for about a year)....hitting them (and their workers) was 
>probably not considered "collateral damage" by Al Qaeda, any more than 
>bombing German or japanese urban production centers was considered that for 
>the allies in WWII. 

Right.  I don't visualize OBL & Co sitting up nights trying to decide whether their next attack needlessly terrorizes civilians, I think that's a decision they already made.  I'm pointing out that once you've started justifying acts of terror by people you agree with, it seems to be quite hard to draw any meaningful line between them and Al Qaida.  Now, this causes no problem for me--OBL, Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber, they all look like remorseless murderers to me, and I see the differences between them mainly in terms of how effective and dangerous they are.  

...
>And while I suspect that Al-Qaeda were probably 
>unaware in advance of the impact on Telecom, the rest was certainly a 
>conscious decision.

I don't know if this was a goal, exactly, but the other thing the 9/11 attacks achieved was to scare the hell out of the power elite in the country, especially the people at the top of government, media, and finance.  That made all kinds of dumb responses (some parts of the Patriot act, Bush's breathtaking claim of the power to lock up citizens without trial, his administration's equally breathtaking claim that he could ignore laws and treaties against torture on his authority, the invasion of Iraq) possible.  

>-TD

--John




From pcapelli at gmail.com  Sun Oct 24 14:16:36 2004
From: pcapelli at gmail.com (Pete Capelli)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:16:36 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041024131514.W12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <BAY24-F23HzGkzMcvsq0001b85a@hotmail.com> 	
  <20041024131514.W12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <bf846337041024141624481d03@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 (CDT), J.A. Terranson <measl at mfn.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
> 
> > I've just never
> > encountered anyone who had NO doubt about anything the current regime is
> > doing.
> 
> Really?  I have - every single person voting for Shrub seems to be
> exhibiting this particular blindness.

Yet what of your blindness, which doubts *everything* the current
administration does?

-- 

Pete Capelli                                              pcapelli at ieee.org
http://www.capelli.org                                 PGP Key ID:0x829263B6
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither 
liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Sun Oct 24 10:08:18 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:08:18 +0100
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <4173B49F.28896.96D8EF@localhost> 
  <4174E0B9.16781.1AB40CE@localhost>
  <1098589022.7067.207124419@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <417BE182.30507@gmx.co.uk>

Adam wrote:
> You know, the more I read posts by Mr. Donald, the more I believe that
> he is quite possibly the most apt troll I have ever encountered. It is
> quite apparent from reading his responses that he is obviously an
> exceptionally intelligent (academically anyway) individual. I find it
> hard to believe that such intelligence could reside in a person with
> such critically flawed core beliefs. 
You forget SternFud so easily?




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 24 18:15:55 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:15:55 -0700
Subject: "Give peace a chance"? NAH...
In-Reply-To: <20041024141837.Y12015@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417B9B76.8517.1EC0AF6@localhost>
Message-ID: <417BF15B.21090.1D1384@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald
> > For all that is wrong with the US government, remember the 
> > condition  of people under the great majority of the
> > world's governments: poverty and fear, where the political
> > privilege of a few shatters the economy and forces the vast
> > majority into poverty, for example India, Burma, Nigeria,
> > Vietnam, Pakistan, Cuba Indonesia, and all the rest.

J.A. Terranson:
> You forgot to list the US.

You have shown many signs of psychotic loss of contact with
reality.  The proposition that the government of the US causes
similar effects to the government of Burma is over the top even
for you.

James A. Donald
> > If we were subject to the power of those governments that 
> > compose the majority of the world's governments, we would
> > be as poor, unfree, and frightened as the subjects of those
> > governments.

J.A. Terranson:
> And we are not?

Uh, no. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     e0paVHj/6w7mGUq7SxSrbVSLTQLi5dWgOYMAlHSF
     4w1k4b0rDwMkdMVwrQc2sFCweO4HqwGhhOQDKA3Q7




From eugen at leitl.org  Sun Oct 24 09:40:25 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:40:25 +0200
Subject: [IP] TSA Says It Can Decide Who Can Learn (fwd from
  dave@farber.net)
Message-ID: <20041024164024.GQ1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from David Farber <dave at farber.net> -----


From eugen at leitl.org  Sun Oct 24 12:56:56 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:56:56 +0200
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <417BA4F0.5827.211118D@localhost>
References: <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>
  <417BA4F0.5827.211118D@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041024195656.GD1457@leitl.org>

Can you guys please take it outside? The majority of us just isn't
interested.

On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 12:49:52PM -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

> Nail your colors to the mast. Pick one of the above and defend
> it.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 19:59:58 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:59:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "In matters economic, it is and will continue to be
  conservative.  On issues of civil rights and individual liberties, it
  is consistently  liberal." (fwd)
Message-ID: <20041024215921.R26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

Hey!  James!  Are you LISTENING?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time



 Latest Editorials


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Sunday, October 24, 2004



For President: None of the Above



The Detroit News
 J. Scott Applewhite / Associated Press

President George W. Bush pushed for the war in Iraq but has been a poor manager of the postwar conflict.

 Gerald Herbert / Associated Press

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has a 20-year record of hostility to the auto industry.

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Agonizing choice comes down to this: Neither Bush nor Kerry meets our endorsement test

As Election Day approaches, we find ourselves, like many Americans, agonizing over the presidential election.

Four years ago, the choice was clear. We endorsed George W. Bush based on his promises of fiscal conservatism, limited government and prudence in foreign affairs.

Today, we sadly acknowledge that the president has failed to deliver on those promises.

At the same time, we are fearful of the approaches to government advocated by the Democratic challenger, Sen. John Kerry, because they are at odds with the conservative vision of government that has long shaped this newspaper's editorial positions.

So we are left with a decision we detest but are nonetheless compelled to make: The Detroit News will not lend its endorsement to a candidate who has made too many mistakes, nor to one who offers a governing philosophy that we reject.

This decision to remain silent will disappoint readers who expect The Detroit News to stand with the Republican presidential candidate come hell or high water. Their expectations are not unwarranted - we have never endorsed a Democrat for president, and only failed to endorse twice before, both times during the Franklin Roosevelt years.

For those readers, we restate the philosophy first printed on these pages in 1958: "The News is bound to no political party. In matters economic, it is and will continue to be conservative. On issues of civil rights and individual liberties, it is consistently liberal."

To that we add: We will never feel obliged to defend a president whose blunders and misjudgments have hurt the nation.

Nor will we settle for an equally bad choice. John Kerry's record in the Senate and the promises he's made on the campaign trail suggest an administration that will be indecisive in the face of terror, raise taxes and spending, over-regulate business and stifle Michigan's economy.

Rather than an endorsement, we offer instead our assessment of the two candidates.

George W. Bush

The president succeeded in a critical area. When America most needed a strong leader following September 11, George W. Bush stood tall. He filled an historically important role of holding our nation together, of giving us strength and resolve, and of epitomizing our spirit and our will. For that we will be forever grateful.

Bush also responded with force against al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan, an action that was long overdue. And his economic stimulus plan helped move the country out of recession and minimized the financial impact of September 11.

But this president has a knack for squandering success.

With the nation and the world firmly behind his operation in Afghanistan, he turned his sights too quickly to Iraq and Saddam Hussein, his family's old nemesis.

Acting on intelligence that was faulty and too eagerly interpreted by the administration to match its agenda, Bush moved against Iraq without the support of key allies.

We backed the invasion of Iraq, accepting the Bush assertion that Saddam's weapons programs presented a gathering threat to the United States. While America, the world and the Iraqi people are better off with Saddam gone, we now believe that Iraq was a fight that might have waited, or been avoided altogether.

Regardless, a president who takes the nation to war has an obligation to win that war as quickly, efficiently and painlessly as possible.

Bush has not done that. The management of the conflict in Iraq is abysmal. The United States went into Iraq without enough international support and brought too few of our own troops to complete the job.

In shorting the generals, in allowing political concerns to trump military strategy, in assuming too much cooperation from the Iraqi people, Bush allowed Iraq to become a hotbed of terrorism, the very condition he struck to prevent. The messy result has allowed our enemies to portray the United States as a villain, and use our role as a rallying cry for terrorists elsewhere.

There were too many poor calls, including disbanding the Iraqi army, leaving the borders undefended and trusting shady Iraqi nationals, all of which combined to turn what could have been a stunning liberation into a still uncertain, nation-building morass. Iraq has stretched America's military capabilities, strained friendships and will hamstring future strikes against rogue regimes.

Such bad management cannot be forgiven in a wartime president.

At home, Bush has shocked us with his free-spending ways. Non-defense, domestic spending increased more than 30 percent during his term. At the same time, the president cut taxes. Together, the two resulted in a massive federal budget deficit that could have been mitigated had Bush kept his promise of fiscal conservatism.

This was a failure of leadership. The American people will accept a call to sacrifice in times of crisis. But instead of asking for sacrifice, Bush delivered excess.

He plunged the federal government even deeper into the day-to-day operations of local school districts with the ill-advised No Child Left Behind Act; he failed to veto even one of Congress' pork-laden spending bills; he pushed ahead with his own spending agenda, including a confusing and deceptively expensive prescription drug plan, without regard to the budget demands of homeland security and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. On trade, he exhibited protectionist tendencies that hurt American industry.

Finally, on the matter of civil liberties, Bush has turned away from the conservative doctrine that the Constitution must be strictly observed. His Patriot Act contained many important elements to break down the walls between law enforcement agencies and allow them to respond to advancements in technology.

But it also trashed personal privacy protections, suspended due process safeguards and upset the balance between the power of the government and the rights of the individual.

The president's record does not recommend him for re-election.

John Kerry

John Kerry is well-spoken, polished and would perform well in the world's courts and capitals.

He has spent two decades in the Senate and that experience would be valuable in a president. He has ideas, energy and intelligence. And he served his country admirably in Vietnam.

But all Michigan voters need to know about John Kerry is that he is no friend of the domestic auto industry. In 20 years as a senator from Massachusetts, Kerry has stood against automakers on every vote. Even those Michigan voters who support other aspects of his agenda must view his approach to the auto industry as a fatal flaw.

In January, he told the Associated Press that he supports a 50 percent increase in Corporate-Average Fuel Economy standards over 10 years. Kerry now says that his 36 miles per gallon proposal is a goal, not a mandate, and that he would never do anything to hurt autoworkers.

We are not convinced. The 25 years of CAFE regulations have placed the Big 3 automakers at a crushing disadvantage against their foreign competitors, while not reducing per capita gasoline consumption. It is a failed strategy, and yet Kerry wants more of it.

He would also make the federal government a full partner in the auto industry, proposing $10 billion in federal funds to help automakers develop alternative fuel vehicles. Then he'd spend billions more on tax credits to create an artificial market for those vehicles.

If consumers clamor for alternative fuel vehicles, Detroit will build them, and will make money doing so. But if they don't, no amount of government subsidies will make Kerry's scheme work.

Kerry would also roll back recent reforms in air and water regulations that we believe better balance environmental protection with economic growth. Those changes have allowed power companies to meet growing energy demands and manufacturers to create new jobs, while still improving overall air and water quality.

On the campaign trail, Kerry has proposed a dizzying array of new spending programs, ranging from tuition credits to government-funded health insurance.

By some estimates, Kerry's programs will cost $2 trillion extra over 10 years. To pay for them, Kerry says he will raise taxes on those making more than $200,000 a year, which by his own estimates will net $860 billion over a decade.

Who will make up the difference?

Kerry's tax-the-wealthy-plan, in reality, will fall most heavily on the upper middle class. The truly wealthy - like Kerry himself, who paid a 12 percent tax rate on a household income of $6.7 million last year - have at their disposal a wide range of tax shelters, loopholes and dodges to shield them from tax hikes.

Kerry sees a big government solution to every problem. When he talks about his agenda, we grab tight to our wallets, as should you.

Kerry promises to move Iraq toward resolution by bringing in the allies who shunned the United States under Bush. That seems like wishful thinking, given that both France and Germany have said they will not join the Iraq coalition no matter who wins on Nov. 2.

We also worry that Kerry has a wait-and-see attitude toward combatting terrorism. This is a new war against a new enemy, and it requires a new strategy. Waiting for the enemy to strike before taking action will lead to disaster.

While now promising to be a strong military leader, John Kerry has consistently voted in the Senate against a strong military. And although he speaks haughtily now of the Bush administration's failure to get United Nations backing for the invasion of Iraq, Kerry voted against the first Gulf War, which did have U.N. approval.

Had the Democrats offered a viable alternative to Bush, we would not be in this position of indecisiveness. Kerry is not a viable alternative.

The Ideal President

So what are we looking for in a president?

Someone who will be a good steward of the people's money; someone who trusts citizens to use their own resources to solve their own problems, and those of their communities.

Someone who is willing to set priorities and stick to them; someone who places the needs of the nation above political agendas.

Someone who understands that business, commerce and profits are not dirty words - they're where the jobs come from. Someone who sees America still as a land of economic opportunity and encourages citizens to pursue their dreams, rather than constantly reminding them of the obstacles in their path.

Someone who respects the Constitution and recognizes that the document should not be twisted by each generation to answer passing threats.

We want a president whose character and temperament match the demands of the office. We want a president who appreciates that the responsibility of being the world's military superpower requires a deft touch to maintain harmonious relationships.

That person is not on the ballot this time. We are unwilling to settle for less.




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 24 19:07:06 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:07:06 -0400
Subject: Airport insanity
In-Reply-To: <20041024195656.GD1457@leitl.org>
References: <417AC0E9.12186.3F4D631@localhost>  
  <417BA4F0.5827.211118D@localhost> <20041024195656.GD1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <p0611049fbda1f8b04fc7@[66.149.49.5]>

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At 9:56 PM +0200 10/24/04, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>Can you guys please take it outside? The majority of us just isn't
>interested.

Oh, please. <Tanto>Who's this "us", white man?</Tanto>

Personally, I'm having a lot of fun watching this.

What amazes me the most is that no matter how finely James cuts his
logic, I'm still following him through the changes -- and I end up
agreeing with him to boot. Tim McVeigh made a direct attack on his
own nation-state because he thought it impeded progress and freedom.
Islamist barbarians, and other luddite neo-feudal terrorists, attack
the public in order to weaken their resolve to support their
nation-state so they can impose, well, luddite neo-feudal barbarism.
Fuck that.

The libertarian argument against war is the most ethical one that
exists, as far as ethics goes, but physics causes philosophy, not the
other way around. From where I sit it looks to me that, whether he's
trying to or not, James has been making about the best case for
classic liberalism -- as opposed to recent cryptocommunist
"liberalism" that can't even use that heisted label anymore -- I've
seen in a very long time, and certainly around here.


Look, guys, the internal and external use of force is just about the
only legitimate act of a state there is anymore, and ethics has
almost nothing to do with it. Force monopolies are an *economic* fact
of life, no matter how much anarcho-capitalists -- like myself --
wish it weren't so.

Call it Coase's revenge, or whatever you want, but transaction costs
are sufficiently high in markets for force that they create local
monopolies. These monopolies tend to gigantism because high-speed --
but still human-mediated -- communication in those markets causes
large information hierarchies and concomitant economies of scale.

Modern geodesic communications have started to reverse that, the
Afghan war is a case in point, heck, the collapse of the Soviet Union
into multiple states, possibly recursively from now on, is a
canonical example.  China's current cohesivity is a perfect exception
to the rule, more a testament to their common 5000-year cultural
heritage and their rapid adoption of market economics than anything
else, the same as America's, for the time being, though for a much
shorter period of time and for entirely different cultural reasons,
freedom vs. feudalism, and all that.

Nonetheless, humanity is probably a long way from completely
*private* markets for force with a collapse to the bottom of
recursively smaller nation-state "firms" in the meantime.


My point is, you dance with the girl that brung ya. If the only way
to kill barbarians is to kill barbarians in their bed before they
kill you in yours, to pave over nation-states that support them,
starting with the easiest first, it can't happen fast enough, as far
as I'm concerned, and I'll gladly "vote" my expropriated tax-dollars
for the purpose of draining the swamp that is the Middle East.

Hell, the fact that every middle-class born-again
islamofundamentalist jihadi "freedom-fighter" in the world is making
a beeline for Fallujah, makes me *happy*. They're doing our work for
us. Concentrate their forces, go in in force, shoot whoever shoots at
you, and let Allah sort 'em out; wait for newbies to fill the bowl
again and flush, um, liberally, until they stop clogging the
porcelain like so much human excrement.

Finally, the more that those expenditures on external force bankrupt
the "welfare" system, and all the other anticoagulant bribes that
"democratic" force-monopolies use to keep the tax-catheter from
clotting up, the happier I'll be anyway. That's what Reagan did,
deficits and all, and if it puts second-tier genocides out of
business the way that he did to the first-tier ones, then "America,
Fuck Yeah".

Finally,  apropos of every political development on this list since
November 2000, and especially 9/11, doesn't everyone find it
positively apocryphal that all the former Republican "libertarians",
"anarcho-capitalists", "crypto-anarchists", whatever, reverted
instantlyl to Republicans, and the former Democrats doing the same?
Even the "lifelong Libertarians" are positively transparent in their
underlying politics at times like these.

Binary choices are such a bitch, ?Si?

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Sun Oct 24 20:21:59 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:21:59 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417BA4EE.648.2110924@localhost>
References: <417B24F7.28262.1D00C7@localhost>
  <417BA4EE.648.2110924@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041024221949.D26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> James A. Donald:
> > > McViegh did not target innocents.  Bin Laden did target
> > > innocents.
>
> Roy M. Silvernail
> > I'm confused.  Is Mr. Donald saying McVeigh did not surveil
> > his target sufficiently to know that there was a day care
> > center in the damage pattern?
>
> Bin Laden's intent was to make anyone in America afraid - thus
> the use of airliners, rather than truck bombs.   McViegh's
> intent was to make BATF afraid.


This is idiotic.  You're claiming that the definition of "terrorist" is
dependent not on the act, but on why the act was committed.  So if I was
to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of Ci into the local subway
system "As payback for Ruby Ridge", this would not be an act of terrorism?

You're a fucking moron.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 25 00:06:13 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:06:13 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <20041024221949.D26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417BA4EE.648.2110924@localhost>
Message-ID: <417C4375.21977.15DC88A@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Bin Laden's intent was to make anyone in America afraid - 
> > thus the use of airliners, rather than truck bombs. 
> > McViegh's intent was to make BATF afraid.

J.A. Terranson:
> This is idiotic.  You're claiming that the definition of 
> "terrorist" is dependent not on the act, but on why the act 
> was committed.

Analogously, the definition of "murderer" depends on why the 
act was committed.

> So if I was to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of Ci 
> into the local subway system "As payback for Ruby Ridge", 
> this would not be an act of terrorism?

That would be terrorism, because regardless of what you *said*
your intent was, you would not be targeting those responsible
for Ruby Ridge. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     VD3OmstfdjDi423472WFnOcF4OoAi0gOL2FZR45Y
     4G2LCL/l1ZIVyRLfDcdladNssQtPhB0PR3mZs2VbO




From justin-cypherpunks at soze.net  Sun Oct 24 18:58:31 2004
From: justin-cypherpunks at soze.net (Justin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 01:58:31 +0000
Subject: Interventionism
In-Reply-To: <11324503.1098471567437.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <11324503.1098471567437.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20041025015831.GB8273@arion.soze.net>

On 2004-10-22T14:59:26-0400, John Kelsey wrote:
> 
> >From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Oct 19, 2004 10:23 AM
> >Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
> 
> >More than that, some of the countries we've been kicked out or prevented 
> >from influencing have been modernizing rapidly, the most obvious example is 
> >China and Vietnam. Bolivia is interesting to watch.
> 
> So, Taiwan and South Korea seem like rather obvious counterexamples.
> 
> (Not a fan of interventionist foreign policy, FWIW)

I'm torn on Interventionism, and I suppose everyone is in some way.  I
believe that no matter how "oppressed" someone is, they can still
accomplish great things.  Based on that alone, there is little reason to
intervene in other countries' societies even if their governments are
perpetuating discrimination.

I also think it's a mistake to say that the U.S. has been so successful
because it's a democratic republic.  Wasn't it the spirit of those who
rebelled against British rule, rather than the particular form of
government they established, that was critical in establishing the U.S.
as a progress-oriented nation?

A semi-free society that has fewer economic regulations will have more
companies, and more capital that can be directed to pay people to do
research or to fund development of abstract ideas into usable
technologies.  However, even though economic deregulation aides
progress, is that a justification for rebellion or for war?


Consider Saudi Arabia.  Ignore the House of Saud's ties with the Bush
family, for a moment.  I hope everyone will agree that Saudi society and
government discriminates significantly in its treatment of men vs women.

Hopefully everyone will also agree that there are some, though certainly
a minority, of both men and women in Saudi Arabia who do not like their
rights under sharia and under the monarchy.  They want some guarantee of
equal rights, at least equal treatment by government (in matters of
divorce, voting, women's travel w/o closest-male-relative's permission,
etc.).  Ignore the "dress code" -- abaya and all that -- of Islamic law.
I'm interested in more substantive rights, rather than purely social
(non-government-enforced) discrimination.

1) Do individuals in that minority have a right to equal treatment by
government?

2) Does the fact that they are not numerous enough to foment a rebellion
mean they don't have that right?

3) Is there something inherently different about
equal-treatment-by-government, vs a discriminatory system under sharia,
that makes aiding a rebellion "good" or at least "neutral" in an
absolute moral sense?  Can intervention be justified?

4) If (3), can secondary considerations (oil access, "friendly
democracies" in the middle east, etc.) nullify any moral right to
intervene on behalf of an oppressed minority?

5) If (3), do a people with the means to displace discriminatory
governments have a _duty_ to do so?  (whether the U.S. has the means,
given that any military operation will increase government debt, is
debatable.)


If the U.S. has a right to invade other countries based on
government-enforced discrimination, do they have a right to invade the
U.S. based on democracies' tendency to produce a population rendered
brain-dead by the media and by demagogues?  How does the U.S. tendency
to create world-leading corporations mitigate the fact that many of its
citizens are vegetables?

Do I have a right not to live in a society where people are brainwashed
by the educational system, by media, and by government?  Because in such
a society, there is really no democracy.

-- 
The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth,
and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails.  -- L. Ron Hubbard 




From measl at mfn.org  Mon Oct 25 02:57:57 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 04:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417C4375.21977.15DC88A@localhost>
References: <417BA4EE.648.2110924@localhost>
  <417C4375.21977.15DC88A@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041025045726.Y26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> James A. Donald:
> > > Bin Laden's intent was to make anyone in America afraid -
> > > thus the use of airliners, rather than truck bombs.
> > > McViegh's intent was to make BATF afraid.
>
> J.A. Terranson:
> > This is idiotic.  You're claiming that the definition of
> > "terrorist" is dependent not on the act, but on why the act
> > was committed.
>
> Analogously, the definition of "murderer" depends on why the
> act was committed.
>
> > So if I was to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of Ci
> > into the local subway system "As payback for Ruby Ridge",
> > this would not be an act of terrorism?
>
> That would be terrorism, because regardless of what you *said*
> your intent was, you would not be targeting those responsible
> for Ruby Ridge.

And if the station I chose just happened to be the one servicing ATF?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 06:40:12 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:40:12 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
Message-ID: <BAY24-F40l6HhlIPyx900020462@hotmail.com>

Well, the Bush "supporters" I've met aren't normally so sure. They'll kind 
of hem and haw, or saw "Well, he's got advisors...", or "Well, Kerry ain't 
any better." Once in a while they'll point to Buh's believability or 
decisiveness, but I've never seen anyone (besides Mr Donald) attempt the 
role of super-apolegist for anything the current regime has done.

Oddly, when I see Bush speak, I actually in a weird way kind of like him. Or 
at least, I believe that he believes in what he's doing. Don't get me wrong 
now: he's completely wrong, and a wan smile would cross my lips if his 
meeting with Jesus were hastened quite a bit.

-TD

Old mother Reagan went to heaven at the pearly gates she was stopped.
(Violent Femmes)



>From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl at mfn.org>
>To: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>CC: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Donald's Job Description
>Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:16:22 -0500 (CDT)
>
>
>On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:
>
> > I've just never
> > encountered anyone who had NO doubt about anything the current regime is
> > doing.
>
>Really?  I have - every single person voting for Shrub seems to be
>exhibiting this particular blindness.
>
> > -TD
>
>--
>Yours,
>
>J.A. Terranson
>sysadmin at mfn.org
>0xBD4A95BF
>
>	"An ill wind is stalking
>	while evil stars whir
>	and all the gold apples
>	go bad to the core"
>
>	S. Plath, Temper of Time

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From dailyarticle at mises.org  Mon Oct 25 06:45:20 2004
From: dailyarticle at mises.org (Mises Daily Article)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:45:20 -0400
Subject: How Empires Really End
Message-ID: <mailman.1056.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

How Empires Really End

by Sean Corrigan

<http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?Id=1656>[Posted October 25, 2004]

 Here is what the standard historical textbooks will tell you. The Romans,
after nearly four centuries of occupation, abandoned Britain in the year
410 a.d., when the western Emperor Honorius sent a "Rescript"or official
proclamationto the leaders of the British municipalities, telling them,
thereafter, to look to their own defense.

Those same bookswith their urge to chop history up into neatly packaged
sliversthen roundly declare that Civilization was abolished and that the
"Dark Ages" promptly began.

They will inform you that, within the space of barely two generations, the
feeble British had abandoned the fertile lowland fields and farms, which
their ancestors had tended since the last Ice Age, giving them up to a few
boatloads of Germanic pirates and that they began to flee, finding a bleak
refuge in the harsher highlands on the oceanic fringes of their island.

And why would this not be trueno less than Rome herself was sacked by
Alaric and his Goths that same year, was it not?

As for Honorius, well, he was sheltering safely in Ravenna while his people
were enduring the barbarian siege. The story goes that when he heard the
news of its ruin, he thought it was a lesser evil than would be the death
of his pet cockerel of the same name!

But rather than using the words of a fool in purple, historians consider
the cataclysm was better encapsulated by the pen of St. Jerome, who gave
out a whole series of lamentations, wailing, in one letter, that:

"...the bright light of all the world was put out, or, rather, when the
Roman Empire was decapitated, and, to speak more correctly, the whole world
perished in one city."

Here and now, sixteen centuries later, in my line of work as an investment
analyst, you come across more and more latter-day St. Jeromes, wherever you
turn.

I know of people who are selling up and moving to seek Shangri-La in the
Southern Alps of New Zealand. Ive met those who think Paradise is to be
found among the palm trees of the Dominican Republic or Costa Rica.

A smart and very highly-educated American with whom Im friendly speaks for
many when he ends an e-mail with the words: "Im looking forward to seeing
you in Zurich. The way things are here, I might even stay."

In fact, its becoming increasingly common for well-to-do professional
folks and retired businessmen to reveal, in the course of a conversation,
that they are prey to increasing anxieties about their future.

These people evidently fear that their quality of life can no longer be
guaranteed and they often dont know what they can do about it.

Meanwhile, out in the wider world, the Gold Bugs and the more extreme
religious crazies (of all faiths) have seemingly set up a joint venture.

These two incongruous lobby groups have joined hands in trying to persuade
people that the End of Daysfinancial or universalis at hand.

What they seem to have agreed upon is that when God/Jehovah/Allah/Shiva is
shortly revealed in all His mighty wrath and when He causes credit to
collapse and the stock market to plunge, He will expect the Faithful not to
be caught up in the rout.

Oh, no! For the mark of the True Believer is that, when the Crash comes, he
should be ready to take the Lord straight to where he has his gold coins
buried instead!

As that mellifluous voice of carefully-crafted pessimism, Bill Bonner, put
it, in a recent piece:

"We like gold the way we like stacks of firewood, jars of canned green
beans and cheerful women. They make the going so much more fun when the
going gets rough. As we mention above, the going has never been easier. So
easy have things become that people no longer see the need for reserves. .
. . But someday, the going may not be so good. We hold it in inventory for
the day when just in time fails and just in case comes back into style
. . ."

This sounds eminently more reasonable, but, in truth, it is simply more of
the same doom-mongeringjust more soothingly and articulately expressed by
a master of the art.

For my part, Ill admit that our rulers chickens finally may be coming
home to roost, and that ours will be the generation up to our necks in
guano.

However, Im among those who also find this vogue for paranoiathis cult of
the Apocalypseboth unattractive and unfruitful.

The lesson of history

This is where the story of Rome and the manner of its tellingis
particularly instructive. This is because, as frequently happens in life,
if we look beyond the banner headlines of despair, we can find cause for
hope.

We can also draw several parallels with what is happening to us
todaythough not on the way our present crop of St. Jeromes would do it.

Lets take a glimpse at how Rome and her history can give us a
reaffirmation of our unshaken belief in the ability of Everyman, acting as
a free individual, to repair all the damage ever done by historys tyrants
and their tax gatherers.

The first thing to be pointed out is that, however dramatic the official
version of those past events, what historiansand, more emphatically,
archaeologistsare coming to realize is that, changes in political
leadership aside, nothing very much at all can otherwise be found to
distinguish the days before 410 a.d. with those afterwards.

Rome may have swapped leaders. Violence may have been done and property
destroyed on a considerable scale. Individual tragedy was, we suspect, both
undeniable and heart-rending, as it always is in such times.

Yet, the vast majority of men and women still lived their lives, tended
their livestock, took their goods to market, and worshipped their gods, as
they had always doneRome, or no Rome.

The thrifty and the enterprising still, on the whole, fared better than the
prodigal and the unthinking. In fact, freed of the crushing exactions laid
upon them by a Rome always eager to bribe its vast, unproductive military
class into quietude, they may even have been left to enjoy more of the
fruits of their own labors than usual.

But, the academic historians have always sought to ignore things like this,
for these are concerns of common peopleof traders and farmersand
historians focus mainly on the swaggering fools at the head of the Stateon
generals and governors.

Even if we momentarily share their obsession and even if we stick to the
old texts, unbacked by any harder evidence, the accepted view does not bear
much scrutiny.

Take the case of those feeble Britons, for instance.

Here, it should be noted that Honorius letter was not a denial of some
grovelling plea for aid, but a recognition of their de facto and
self-attained independence.

In early 5th-century Britain, memories still burned with the flames of the
pogrom unleashed by Emperor Constantius IIs emissary, Paulus Catena, sixty
years before, after the native leaders had backed the wrong contender in a
struggle for his masters throne.

Many of the current leaders fathers had probably collaborated in fomenting
what the texts call the "Barbarian Conspiracy," in 367 a.d.traditionally
viewed as yet another mark of Britains weakness, but now being revised
into what may actually have been another concerted attempt to shed the
Imperial yoke.

In fact, far from being wretched, the Britons invaded the continent several
times themselves after this supposed disaster; notably, under Maximus in
383 a.d., and, again, under Constantine III in 409 a.d. They even deposed
two previous, more circumspect leaders in swift succession in order to give
Constantine his shot at the title!

Thus, just a year before Honorius wrote his famous missive, one faction of
the Island Celts had already come close to deposing him, while another
spurned his rule completely.

As Zosimus wrote of the period:

". . . [events saw] some of the Celtic peoples defecting from the Roman
rule and living their own lives, independent from the Roman laws. The
Britons therefore took up arms and, braving the danger on their own behalf,
freed their cities from the barbarian threat. And all Armorica and the
other Gallic provinces followed their example, freed themselves in the same
way, expelling the Roman officials and setting up a constitution such as
they pleased . . ."

If this was the case, if some Celtic Washingtons and Jeffersons had,
indeed, won and formalized their peoples freedom, what of the notorious
Groans of the Britons letter, addressed to Generalissimo Aetius a
generation later? Surely this must prove that British sheep were still
being shorn by Saxon wolves?

Well, perhaps not, for it can better be read as the futile obsecration of
one pro-Roman (and Augustinian?) faction, losing out to their retro-Celtic
(Pelagian?) foes.

Note that, in it, the plaintiffs were bleating that the barbarians push us
to the sea; the sea pushes us back to the barbarians: between these two
kinds of death, we are either slaughtered or drowned.

Anglo-historians swell with pride here, assuming that their virile Saxon
forebears are pushing the effete Welsh off the cliffs of Cornwall, but a
far more realistic construction is that supreme commander Vortigerns men
are riding the imperial faction into the surf in Kent!

Moreover, as late as 470 a.d.when the Saxons had supposedly started their
"ethnic cleansing"it was a contingent of 12,000 Britons under King
Riothamus (tentatively identified by some as Vortigerns disobedient
warrior son, Vortimer) which is said to have sailed up the Loire in the
unsuccessful effort to succor the Emperor Anthemius against his Gothic foes.

So, contrary to popular belief, military aid and military adventurism did
not always flow West from Rome, but often it was directed the other way
around!

The victors write the history

But, no matter.

Objective truth counted for little when generations of Englishmen had been
schooled in the ways of Rome and were taught to treat its authors
propagandistic Latin as plain fact.

Who understood that these same worthies and their teachers were all too
eager to trace their contemporary naval and commercial pre-eminence back to
the alleged superiority of their race?

Who realized that history must bend if Victorian overlords were eager to
see in their own Empire a reflection of more ancient glories?

Thus was conjured up the myth of the Anglo-Saxon supremacy and its
counterpoise, the rapid descent of the degenerate post-Roman Britons back
to the mud huts and pig sties from which their Italian masters had briefly
roused them.

As evidence for this, the historians cited the collapse of urban society.

They noted the dwindling of the cash economy as the barely-civilized
savages retreated to rural isolation and relied, once more, upon barter for
the exchange of their few, poor goods.

Deprived of their Tacituses and Cassius Dios, they scorned the natives
lack of learning and mocked the dearth of literacy, which had replaced the
renowned intellectual salons of the auxiliary castra.

The fact that the Celtic Church, sponsored by the sovereign Celtic princes,
was the re-educator of continental Europe and that its footsore saints were
the proselytizers of both Faith and Science throughout these times, was
neatly overlooked.

Even on the economic front, the distortions are plain.

New archaeological evidence and recent reinterpretations of old data
suggest the towns had been undergoing a continual period of slow decay for
many years prior to 410 a.d. and that the cause was not to be found in
barbarian depredations, but in Romes own dysfunctional society.

For far too long, Rome had lived by conquestthrough seizing, by force of
arms, what its spendthrift patricians and Caesarian mafiosi could not hope
to gain by trade alone.

But once the Empire came to butt up against lands too infertile to be worth
the taking, or against terrain too inhospitable for its Legions to control
in the face of active native "insurgents," this predatory State turned
increasingly inward to devour its own wealth producers instead.

Punitive taxes were needed, above all, to pay the vast numbers of soldiers.

In some strikingly modern ways, it was mainly the military contractors and
the tradesmen (and trollops) in the towns (vici) which sprang up alongside
the legionary camps who did well out of equipping and servicing (in all
sorts of ways) their oppressors.

Naturally, in response to these tolls, rich men sought to keep their wealth
to themselves, as far as was possible.

Rather than squandering moneysome of it borrowed at hefty rates of
interestto build public edifices, such as baths and temples, solely for
reasons of prestige, the urban elite began actively to avoid such
impositions.

Indeed, the former privilege of Roman citizenship and the pride of holding
the offices which accrued to it became such a burden that the wealthy
retired to the Dominican Republics of their day, their country villas.

There, they could minimize the loss of their property to overt taxation and
there they could avoid the constant, unsubtle pressure for those
contributions aimed at displaying their loyalty to the regime.

So, unrepaired and unfrequented, town centers began to look dilapidated,
long before any unwelcome barbarian tongues were heard in their near empty
streets.

Fex urbis, lex orbis

Added to all this was the presence of that perennial, wasting affliction,
that debilitating disease so often visited by reckless rulers on their
long-suffering subjectsmonetary inflation.

Long before Alarics Goths had plundered the so-called Eternal City, its
money had become so debased that Imperial tribute and taxes were having to
be levied in kind, not in cash.

This greatly decreased the efficiency of the process. It also hurt the
leadership indirectly, because it made tax collection more personal and
more violently confrontational.

Gradually, then, the whole empire had become little more than an arena in
which competing warlords would raise forces to bid for the throne.

Increasingly, its farmers and merchants were seen as nothing more than tax
slaves to be exploited in order to provide the Dole to the restless urban
proletariat and to buy the fickle loyalties of the ever-important soldiers.

Over time, the difference between the "barbarians" and the Romans was
becoming blurred, too.

For one, the legions military pre-eminence became eroded as the hardy
peasants of Italy in its ranks gave way to the unwilling sons of the
conquered who were conscripted in their place.

Additionally, many sons of the unconquered would volunteer to join
themattracted by the pay and conditions and by the very modern enticement
of the chance to learn a trade.

There was also the prospect of becoming a man of mark back home when the
volunteers term was up. This was an advancement aided substantially by the
often sizeable retirement bonus with which nervous emperors made further
attempts to keep the military caste onside.

That bonus, could, of course, be most readily employed as capital in a
business which relied on the veterans ability to use his inside contacts.
He could call in a few favors, grease a few palms and so win a lucrative
tender to supply his old army mess mates with their victuals, their gear,
or their trinkets.

Once more, the parallels with todays "revolving doors" are obvious, Mr.
Cheney.

But, it wasnt just the soldiers: "foreign" tradesmen and artisans, too,
had learned what there was to learn from Rome and they applied it both in
their home markets and inside the imperial lines.

While this meant tribal leaders far beyond the empires boundaries were
able to show off their collections of Roman jewellery and plate and to
quaff the best Roman wines when feasting with their henchmenjust as their
unsavory equivalents today all drive Mercedes and sport Rolex watchesit
was they who often had the better of the terms of trade.

This must have discomfited the Romans then no less than China's new
manufacturing competitiveness or Indias growing software programming
skills frighten British and American union bosses today.

Rome, then, was not only undermined from within, but it became much less
singular in its abilities, as knowledge of its technologies and innovations
diffused across its borders.

The lessons we should draw from all this is that though things were, in
some senses, gradually getting worse as the Fifth Century began, many of
the evils were not the result of sudden irruptions of savages from the
outer fringes of the world, but were due primarily to a slow corrosion from
within.

Inflation, arbitrary government, swingeing taxation, the confiscation of
propertyoften undertaken on the flimsy pretext of punishing dissent, or
after the accidental infringement of some obscure regulation: these we
would all recognize as things which plague us today.

The development of an increasingly remote, self-serving and fabulously
wealthy governing elite; the destruction of the bedrock middle class; the
reliance of the poor on State grants and subsidies; the inhibition of free
enterprise and the pervasive militarization of societythese are all things
we also know all too well.

Our Rome, too, may be ending in exactly this fashion and in this, the
End-of the-World crowd may be right about a coming reckoning.

But, just like Ancient Rome was lost long before the Goths invaded her
precincts, it will not be our empires external foes who bring it down, but
the self-inflicted wounds from which it has been suffering for decades.

Should we care?

At the margin, perhaps, we should, for we may have to work that bit harder
to make our way against people outside the empire who will now be able to
compete on a more level playing field than before.

But what we should also remember is that Romes passing was not universally
mournedcertainly not by those at risk of its institutionalized terror.

As the noted British archaeologist, Sir Mortimer Wheeler summed it up,
after a lifetime of work in the field:

"I suffered from a surfeit of things Roman. I felt disgusted by the
mechanistic quality of their art and by the nearness of their civilization
at all times to cruelty and corruption."

We should recall also the passages above which showed that the Briton and
some of their Gaulish cousins thrived under their new found freedoms and
their recovered self-determination.

We should listen to the testimony of the present generation of
less-hidebound archaeologists and historians who are beginning to see
matters in a different light to that by which their professors worked.

Men such as Francis Pryor, who goes to great lengths to point out that
history (and prehistory, too, in his case) provides much more evidence of
continuity, overlaid with gradual change, than it does of revolutions or
mass invasions.

In fact, based on a careful study of settlement patterns, artifact finds
and burial practices, Pryor even doubts whether the "Anglo-Saxons"
themselves might not be largely or wholly a post-dated fiction, constructed
to give one set of relatively successful British kinglets a suitably
glorious lineage, the better to distinguish themselves more clearly from
their losing opponents among the other, no-less British kinglets!

At present, that seems too far a stretch for me, but his point is
nonetheless well made.

To return to the main issue, will the fall of our Rome mean a fundamental
change in the way our lives will be lived?

I would contend not and to support this contention, I would ask you to
consider the historical record again.

Life goes on

Over four centuries of occupationand countless more of commercial
trafficBritons adopted certain Roman mannerisms, were influenced by Roman
religious cults, and sought to purchase Roman consumer goods, just as
people in Tehran today wear Levi Jeans and Nike trainers while listening to
REM or Eminem on their iPods.

But, at heart they remained Britons and, beyond even that broad
classification, they were individual acting humans, each driven to provide
for himself and his family through working to satisfy their needs.

In their labors, these Britons were aided by the use of what capital they
had and they appreciated the benefits which came from specializing in a
trade.

In this, they did best when their property was most secure from either
legal or criminal jeopardy.

Then, just as now, they would look for opportunities to exchange the
surplus to which their trade gave rise. They would swap it for others
surplus goods at the best mutually agreed rate they felt they could achieve.

In short, their liveslike ourswere dominated, not so much by their
rulers, as by plain old economic necessity: by matters such as scarcity,
choice, capital, income, profit, and enterprise.

Do you suppose that all of this was called into question because a Pope
died, or an Emperor was usurped?

Do you suppose people thought that the local warrior princeeven if he
spoke German, or Welsh, not Latinwas any less, or any more, of an
inevitable ill with which to put up than were the procurators and legates
of a distant sovereign?

Do you think it will matter now if a President is thrown out, or if a Prime
Minister resigns?

No.

Now, as then, Men will adapt to their new circumstancesas they always do,
if their government allows them the necessary freedom.

Yes, there may be economic upsets and, yes, certain long-standing trading
networks might become defunct. Conversely, new business ventures will
suggest themselves as being potentially profitable and ships will still ply
the deep oceans, with holds stuffed full of goods to exchange.

No doubt, different loyalties will be expressed as the balance of political
risks changes.

Threats to life and property will take newer forms, though not necessarily
less bearable ones.

Crucially, the blessings of thrift and hard work and the fruits of
enterprise will still be enjoyedespecially where the States footprint
lies a little less heavily on the soil.

In summary, life will go on today, as it did even when the mightiest Empire
history had known was sinking into legend.

Life will go on, in the 21st Century as it did in the 5thdifferent, yet
the same.

If we cut through the religious intolerance and ascetic distaste evident in
the words of the sour old monk we met earlier, Saint Jerome himself, from
his hermits cell in Bethlehem, had already recognized this, well before
the embers had ceased to smoulder in his erstwhile City of Light:

"The world sinks into ruin . . . he wrote, as mournful as ever. The
renowned city, the capital of the Roman Empire, is swallowed up in one
tremendous fire; and there is no part of the earth where Romans are not in
exile. . . ."

But, pay particular attention to what he had to say next:

". . . and yet we have our minds set on the desire of gain. We live as
though we are going to die tomorrow; yet we build as though we are going to
live always in this world"

Well, of course, his contemporaries did just thatand it was no sin that
they did, either, but rather a matter for thanksgiving!

For, why wouldnt we expect people to go about their daily lives in much
the same fashion as they did before; buying and selling, building and
dreaming, speculating and investing?

And why wont we carry on, pretty much regardless, even if our modern
Western Empire loses its pre-eminence in its turn?

No. The one thing of which we can be sure is thatwhatever the details of
the looming changemore will stay the same than will be altered by it.

What you should do about it

Buy gold, then, if you willbut only because you share the view that it is
very much harder to acquire than paper money is to create and that this
means it should tend to maintain its value
better.                                                                                                              

But, whatever you do, dont buy it as part of a retreat from life you are
making just because times seem more uncertain than they used to appear.

In trying to preserve your liberty from the zealots in charge of todays
increasingly Roman State, dont surrender it instead to your fears by
becoming either a metaphorical or an actual survivalist.

Dont be tempted to hole up in the mountains with only your water purifier,
your rifle, and your Krugerrands for company for, if the end of the world
does come, no amount of gold is going to comfort you very much.

But if it is only our version of Rome which fallsthis will not invalidate
the lasting truth that your own wealth is best preserved when it helps
another entrepreneur in the process of creating his.

This means you must not hoard what is yours, for its real worth will only
dwindle, if you do, eaten away by inflation, confiscated by the tax farmers.

No, rather, you must keep on trying to invest it wisely by using it to
participate in undertakings which make their owners a living through
serving their post-Imperial, just as their pre-Imperial, customers better
than their competitors can.

All in all, you know the Emperor Honorius may not have been such a fool,
after all.

Maybe his roostera most useful bird, economically speaking did matter
more than the fate of any ruler or regime, for the final lesson we must
draw is that, as long as Men are Men, entrepreneurship will always outlast
empire.

So, take note, you historians of decline: our times will be no exception!

______________________________________

Sean Corrigan is the Investment Strategist at Sage Capital Zuerich AG
(<http://www.sagecapital.com/>www.sagecapital.com), a Swiss-based
organization dedicated to the cause of capital
preservation and is co-adviser to the Bermuda-based
<http://www.edelweissfund.com/>Edelweiss Fund. See his Mises.org
<http://www.mises.org/articles.asp?mode=a&author=Corrigan>Articles Archive,
or send him mail
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--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 07:00:46 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:00:46 -0400
Subject: Doubt
Message-ID: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>

Peter Capelli wrote...

>Yet what of your blindness, which doubts *everything* the current
>administration does?

1. Abu Ghraib
2. WMD in Iraq
3. Patriot Act
4. Countless ties between this administration and the major contract winners 
in Iraq

Hum. Seems a decent amount of doubt is called for.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 09:23:53 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:23:53 -0400
Subject: How Empires Really End
Message-ID: <p061104b4bda2d14212e4@[66.149.49.5]>

One of the reasons I habitually use the Gibon quote in my .sig.

Cheers,
RAH
-------
--- begin forwarded text



From pcapelli at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 09:41:16 2004
From: pcapelli at gmail.com (Pete Capelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:41:16 -0400
Subject: Doubt
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf846337041025094158c0d2f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:00:46 -0400, Tyler Durden
<camera_lumina at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Peter Capelli wrote...
> 
> >Yet what of your blindness, which doubts *everything* the current
> >administration does?
> 
> 1. Abu Ghraib
> 2. WMD in Iraq
> 3. Patriot Act
> 4. Countless ties between this administration and the major contract winners
> in Iraq
> 
> Hum. Seems a decent amount of doubt is called for.

Without doubt.  But total doubt is what is reality (by both sides,
actually).  Does either cadidate/side ever credit the other with
*anything* positive (except hoary platitudes about being a 'family
man)?

Can't anyone have a discussion anymore without resorting to slogans?

-- 

Pete Capelli                                              pcapelli at ieee.org
http://www.capelli.org                                 PGP Key ID:0x829263B6
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither 
liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759




From pcapelli at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 09:52:11 2004
From: pcapelli at gmail.com (Pete Capelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:52:11 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F40l6HhlIPyx900020462@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F40l6HhlIPyx900020462@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf84633704102509526462e3ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:40:12 -0400, Tyler Durden
<camera_lumina at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, the Bush "supporters" I've met aren't normally so sure. They'll kind
> of hem and haw, or saw "Well, he's got advisors...", or "Well, Kerry ain't
> any better." Once in a while they'll point to Buh's believability or
> decisiveness, but I've never seen anyone (besides Mr Donald) attempt the
> role of super-apolegist for anything the current regime has done.

What percentage of Kerry supporters are supporters, and not just an
anti-Bush vote?

> Oddly, when I see Bush speak, I actually in a weird way kind of like him. Or
> at least, I believe that he believes in what he's doing. Don't get me wrong
> now: he's completely wrong, and a wan smile would cross my lips if his
> meeting with Jesus were hastened quite a bit.

This is my point.  He hasn't done *everything* wrong, yet given the
shrill denouncements from both sides, you'd think that both the
candidates were complete morons.  I'd think there would be some
measured discussion on this list, but its the same slogans spewed out.

Do you really think Kerry wouldnt have signed the Patriot Act if he
was president?  Federalized the drivers license requirements?  Pushed
for socialized medicine with central controls?  Kerry or Bush, Kang or
Kodos, in the end it means the same thing.

-- 

Pete Capelli                                              pcapelli at ieee.org
http://www.capelli.org                                 PGP Key ID:0x829263B6
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither 
liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759




From measl at mfn.org  Mon Oct 25 11:57:40 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:57:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041025135638.J28878@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

> You MUST be new here, Pete ole boy...
>
> >Do you really think Kerry wouldnt have signed the Patriot Act if he
> >was president?  Federalized the drivers license requirements?  Pushed
> >for socialized medicine with central controls?  Kerry or Bush, Kang or
> >Kodos, in the end it means the same thing.
>
> I'm sure there are several Cypherpunks  who would be very quick to describe
> Kerry as "needs killing".

Here: Allow me to be the very first - Kerry Very Definitely NEEDS KILLING.
But not until Georgie has had *his* turn.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 11:10:14 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:10:14 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
Message-ID: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>

You MUST be new here, Pete ole boy...

>Do you really think Kerry wouldnt have signed the Patriot Act if he
>was president?  Federalized the drivers license requirements?  Pushed
>for socialized medicine with central controls?  Kerry or Bush, Kang or
>Kodos, in the end it means the same thing.

I'm sure there are several Cypherpunks  who would be very quick to describe 
Kerry as "needs killing".

You MIGHT find some Cypherpunks put up a weak counter-argument just to keep 
an open mind on the matter, but I doubt it.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From pcapelli at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 11:33:06 2004
From: pcapelli at gmail.com (Pete Capelli)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:33:06 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:10:14 -0400, Tyler Durden
<camera_lumina at hotmail.com> wrote:
> You MUST be new here, Pete ole boy...

Not exactly ... 

> I'm sure there are several Cypherpunks  who would be very quick to describe
> Kerry as "needs killing".

I'm not advocating Tim May style actions, although I do miss his
postings.  He did keep things active, and was an excellent
counterbalance to RAH.  Not that I can boast of adding much to the
discussions.

> 
> You MIGHT find some Cypherpunks put up a weak counter-argument just to keep
> an open mind on the matter, but I doubt it.

I'd prefer more discussions about encryption/anonymity than
discussions of the fitness, or lack thereof of the presidential
candidates.  So I need to look internally for that, and contribute
myself.

-- 

Pete Capelli                                              pcapelli at ieee.org
http://www.capelli.org                                 PGP Key ID:0x829263B6
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither 
liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 11:38:14 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:38:14 -0400
Subject: Follow the Money: From St. Moritz to Singapore
Message-ID: <p061104c2bda2d36d94ff@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB109865726182354106,00.html>

The Wall Street Journal


 October 25, 2004

 BUSINESS EUROPE


Follow the Money:
 From St. Moritz to Singapore

By ANTON KELLER
October 25, 2004


GENEVA -- Built on the unique appreciation and goodwill the French kings
had developed over centuries for the lives and treasures of Swiss
mercenaries, Hans-Konrad Hottinger of Zurich started in Paris in 1786 what,
seven generations later, is still a family-owned, discreet
wealth-management enterprise in the service of sophisticated clients.

Today, the pillars of society and the economy, the inherently and the newly
rich are still looking forward to open accounts with Swiss bankers in
Zurich, St. Moritz, Singapore, etc. For both foreign friends of Heidiland
and concerned Swiss citizens, the question is whether this obliging
heritage is still in safe hands, whether this unique trust, awe -- and the
premium service charges that go with it -- are still justified.

"In most cases no longer!" answered the American Iconoclast Philip
Wainwright, adding: "But don't despair either, for while the Swiss have a
penchant for near-perfection of mediocrity, the next generation of Swiss
bankers may again be able and willing to play hardball when needed, to
effectively stand up for their clients and not to sell them out, and thus
again become successful because and not despite of themselves."

The Wall Street Journal's Allan Otten gave the alert back in 1982, saying
that "A change in attitude is taking place here that makes Switzerland a
less attractive center than it used to be." Deploring Switzerland's
adoption of "Lex Americana," he and others have "been trying to alert the
Swiss to the American regulatory bureaucracy's penchant for growing real
problems if given fertile ground."

Since then, it has only gotten worse. Swiss laws and codes have been
focused less on investors' legitimate needs than on what some short-sighted
bureaucrats here and there have felt comfortable with. Mostly "under
foreign and especially U.S. pressure," foreign agendas were thus
accommodated, undermining Switzerland's position in the global financial
market. Gone are the days when demand for Swiss banking services was such
that foreign clients could bring in more money only with an annual negative
interest penalty of 10%.

What produced the "Swiss Banking Miracle" -- and what could bring it back?

Take Charles Pictet-de Rochemont's public-service record. The gratitude of
the Swiss people and government is written in stone at his statue in front
of the City Hall of Geneva (in 1814/5 he negotiated Geneva's accession to
Switzerland, obtained universal recognition for Switzerland's permanent
armed neutrality, and contributed to the foundation of Europe's
industrialization).

Paul Pictet (another outstanding member of the family, which has served
discerning banking clients since 1805), took the fight to preserve treaty
rights concerning Geneva's "zones franches" in 1923 to the Swiss people and
won, despite the government's sell out to France.

Jacques Darier (of the 1796-founded private bank bearing his family name),
while visiting his clients in Paris after World War II, was followed by
French taxmen and arrested to compel him to inform on his clients. At the
commissariat, rather than betraying his clients, he grabbed and swallowed
the paper slip that the police officer had found on him listing their
telephone numbers.

After Francois Mitterrand's election as French president in 1981, Pierre
Darier, with Charles and Pierre Pictet, effectively neutralized the French
government's fiscal attacks on their clients, persuading the Swiss
Parliament to reject as "diplomatic treason" what the Swiss Bankers'
Association and the Swiss Government had already granted to the French
socialists.

The Geneva Stock Exchange followed up with imaginative countermeasures
directed against bureaucratic lawmaking by the OECD, U.N. and EU. But that
also caught the ire of colleagues who, single-mindedly, eyed the U.S.
market. They ignored the lessons of the World War II-era dormant-accounts
disaster, snubbing and free-loading on the pro-market, pro-sovereignty and
pro-privacy efforts that had derailed the OECD's Interfipol convention, its
truly harmful "Harmful Tax Competition" initiative and the EU's
tax-data-exchange program.

Indeed, these principled stands have proved the exception rather than the
rule for over 50 years in Switzerland. Over the decades, in a misguided
attempt to curry favor with tax authorities in the U.S. and Europe, Swiss
bankers have acceded to the adoption U.S. insider-trading laws,
money-laundering and anti-corruption rules, and IRS Qualified Intermediary
regulations, and most recently to breaches of privacy and liberties on
purported antiterrorism concerns. All of these short-sighted measures could
not fail to degrade the investment climate to the point where Switzerland
is now threatened by a macroeconomic tailspin. After September 11, 2001,
the compliance mentality became nigh-universal, paralyzing and asphyxiating
the remaining productive forces, with the compliance departments often the
only growth shows in town.

But it also offered a renewal opportunity, a dignified path with a distinct
future appreciably away from all foreign and home-made obstacles to
legitimate market opportunities. For those with a corresponding public
service-oriented vision focusing on both the enterprising responsible
citizen and the common good, there always was and will be a bright future
-- if they are capable and willing to admit past errors as preconditions
for not repeating but correcting them.

Swiss bankers can start by regaining the lost wisdom of the Pictets and the
Dariers; they will only thrive if they can see the necessity of acting on
behalf of the ever-growing number of individual clients here and there with
legitimate surplus earnings, not against them. These clients don't need
bankers turned agents of the state, but competent and trustworthy allies
against an increasingly overbearing state bureaucracy.

Mr. Keller is secretary of the Swiss Investors Protection Association.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 11:44:26 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:44:26 -0400
Subject: Proxy trading thriving at DSM bourse
Message-ID: <p061104bbbda2d36091fb@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.menafn.com/qn_print.asp?StoryID=67783&subl=true>

MENAFN - Middle East North Africa . Financial Network

Proxy trading thriving at DSM bourse

The Peninsula - 25/10/2004


Doha: DSM officials have urged Qataris not to encourage outsiders to
indulge in proxy trading, as demand for identity (ID) cards of nationals
and power of attorney issued by them, is said to be increasing in view of
the forthcoming mega public issue of Qatar Gas Transport Company (QGTC).

According to Al Sharq, there is a thriving black market as demand for ID
cards of Qataris for proxy subscription to QGTC issue to be launched in
January next year, is picking up fast.

Al Sharq quoted DSM sources as saying there are many takers for ID cards of
Qataris for the initial public offering of QGTC set for floatation on
January 16, 2005.

DSM sources told The Peninsula yesterday that some rich investors from
Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia were coming to Qatar and persuading some
nationals to lend their as well as their family members' ID cards for the
purpose of proxy trading.

According to DSM rules, a national can sign a power of attorney endorsed by
the legal documentation department at the Ministry of Justice authorising a
relative, a friend or a foreign partner to buy shares in his name. "This
facility we have in place considering that a Qatari cannot be expected be
physically present in Doha all the time, so he has the right to appoint a
nominee for purchasing or selling local stocks," a DSM source told The
Peninsula.

In case the stocks are to be sold, a separate power of attorney is issued
authorising a relative or friend, who could be a non-Qatari. However, the
cheque (of the amount of sale proceeds) is issued by a broker only in the
name of the Qatari buyer of the shares concerned. The cheque is not bearer,
so the money is transferred to the bank account of the national.

It is okay as long as an ID of a Qatari and the power of attorney issued by
him or her is for genuine reasons. But the problem is that some Qataris are
being offered large sums by outsiders, especially some rich investors from
neighbouring countries, for using their ID cards for proxy trading, DSM
sources said.

Lending an ID and giving a power of attorney for the purpose of proxy
trading is not only illegal but also hurts the interest of small Qatari
investors, a DSM source said. "That is why we are urging nationals not to
encourage this trend. Instead of violating law and looking for easy money
Qataris should take loans from local banks and invest in stocks
themselves," the source added.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From justin-cypherpunks at soze.net  Mon Oct 25 07:58:33 2004
From: justin-cypherpunks at soze.net (Justin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:58:33 +0000
Subject: Doubt
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041025145833.GA17569@arion.soze.net>

On 2004-10-25T10:00:46-0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
> 
> Peter Capelli wrote...
> 
> >Yet what of your blindness, which doubts *everything* the current
> >administration does?
> 
> 1. Abu Ghraib
> 2. WMD in Iraq
> 3. Patriot Act
> 4. Countless ties between this administration and the major contract 
> winners in Iraq
5. Campaign Finance Reform
6. Abortion
7. Faith-based initiatives
8. Bush, Ashcroft, and most others in the administration are prudish

-- 
The old must give way to the new, falsehood must become exposed by truth,
and truth, though fought, always in the end prevails.  -- L. Ron Hubbard 




From jamesd at echeque.com  Mon Oct 25 14:59:56 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:59:56 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <20041025045726.Y26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <417C4375.21977.15DC88A@localhost>
Message-ID: <417D14EC.1640.17BC08C@localhost>

    --
J.A. Terranson:
> > > So if I was to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of
> > > Ci into the local subway system "As payback for Ruby
> > > Ridge", this would not be an act of terrorism?

James A. Donald:
> > That would be terrorism, because regardless of what you
> > *said* your intent was, you would not be targeting those
> > responsible for Ruby Ridge.

J.A. Terranson:
> And if the station I chose just happened to be the one
> servicing ATF?

If your intent was to nail passing BATF employees, surely
hitting closer to their office would be more effectual.  Spray
some radioactives in the entrance lobby. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     KWVunJBmZ52AZSOdaQb2Q5Zoz2Crn5g0U31NRSlo
     4iLTYoVpo0AgmiEow46ObxjN4dPkqPP6I0kKDTG+9




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 12:15:25 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:15:25 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041025135638.J28878@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <20041025135638.J28878@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p061104f7bda2fed7c233@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:57 PM -0500 10/25/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Here: Allow me to be the very first - Kerry Very Definitely NEEDS KILLING.
>But not until Georgie has had *his* turn.

Exactly the point I was making before. Binary politics are a bitch, boys
and girls.

viz, "I'm as cryptoanarchist as the next guy, but kill the
[democrats/republicans] first" means that we are, in fact, democrats or
republicans and not cryptoanarchists, and will remain so until there aren't
democrats/republicans/libertarians/greens/whatever, to vote for to begin
with.

That means a structural change in *physics*, and not politics. In the vein
of another canonical cypherpunk, "cypherpunks write code".

Doesn't mean that politics is not a topic of discussion around here, far
from it. This list is, has been, mostly, since its inception, a watering
hole and not a working list, but we have to remember not the put the
political cart before the physical/financial/economic horse.

To mangle my favorite Clinton (George): Free (as in liberty...) your code
and your political mind will follow.

Cheers,
RAH



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 12:20:28 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:20:28 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>

At 2:33 PM -0400 10/25/04, Pete Capelli wrote:
>He did keep things active, and was an excellent
>counterbalance to RAH.

*Nobody* was a counterbalance to Tim, me or anyone else. Simple fact, no
matter how much he pissed on my shoes, or anyone else's.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Mon Oct 25 12:23:35 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:23:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Donald's Job Description
Message-ID: <6305464.1098732216171.JavaMail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina at hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 25, 2004 9:40 AM
>To: measl at mfn.org
>Cc: adam.cypherpunks at fastmail.fm, cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Donald's Job Description

>Well, the Bush "supporters" I've met aren't normally so sure. They'll kind 
>of hem and haw, or saw "Well, he's got advisors...", or "Well, Kerry ain't 
>any better." Once in a while they'll point to Buh's believability or 
>decisiveness, but I've never seen anyone (besides Mr Donald) attempt the 
>role of super-apolegist for anything the current regime has done.

This is my experience, too.  Bush supporters I know prefer him to Kerry, not because he's a great and infallable leader, but because they think he's doing a reasonable job relative to what Kerry would do.  It's not like this is an entirely nutty position to take, since Kerry really does seem to blow a lot of smoke when talking about Iraq, albeit less than Bush does.

...

--John




From deafbox at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 08:31:39 2004
From: deafbox at hotmail.com (Russell Turpin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:31:39 +0000
Subject: [FoRK] "Your papers, citizen"
Message-ID: <mailman.1057.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

This was on Slashdot's political feed. Here's the jaw-dropper:

McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed
"screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations,
train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies,
Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure"
facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary
Tom Ridge would appear to be authorized to issue new
federal IDs--with biometric identifiers--that Americans
could be required to show at checkpoints.

Here's the article:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5415111.html

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

_______________________________________________
FoRK mailing list
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From measl at mfn.org  Mon Oct 25 14:33:18 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:33:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <p061104fdbda319f81e26@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>  
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com> 
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
  <p061104fdbda319f81e26@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041025163218.A26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> Here we go...
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&scoring=d&q=%22Tim+May%22&btnG=Search

Wow!  He's gotten even worse!

	""US Code 10" does not enslave me to some "militia" that holds views
	generally counter to my own (that negroes mostly need killing, that
	abortion is fully legal, that all drugs are legal, that women are too
	hormone-addled to have the right to vote, and that many tens of
	millions of Jews, niggers, Mexicans, PRs, and other criminals ought to
	be sent up in smoke)."

Someone please send him a refill for that thorazine scrip!

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 13:58:05 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:58:05 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>  
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>  
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <p061104fcbda31937f0e6@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:32 PM +0200 10/25/04, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>What's he up to these days?

Probably in jail. :-).

I told him not to throw rocks at cop-cars...

Cheers,
RAH
Okay, so he's probably not in *jail*...
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Mon Oct 25 14:00:50 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:00:50 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>  
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>  
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <p061104fdbda319f81e26@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:32 PM +0200 10/25/04, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>What's he up to these days? It seems he got tired of of USENET, too
>
>
>	http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tcmay%40got.net&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=off&sa=G&scoring=d
>
>Too bad.

Here we go...

http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&scoring=d&q=%22Tim+May%22&btnG=Search
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Mon Oct 25 08:35:14 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:35:14 +0200
Subject: [FoRK] "Your papers, citizen" (fwd from deafbox@hotmail.com)
Message-ID: <20041025153513.GG1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from Russell Turpin <deafbox at hotmail.com> -----


From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 18:03:00 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:03:00 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F30BkHP4aXQRm000286f1@hotmail.com>

Well, perhaps your comment was made entirely toungue-in-cheek, but I still 
think you're missing the point.

The point is this: Almost and "side" in this world that has committed or 
commits atrocities can find a true-believing apolegist. And in most cases 
the best of these can concoct an answer to anything you throw at him. As far 
as I'm concerned, that's the whole point of going through this excersize 
(ie, of finding a way to rationalize pretty much ANY form of 
violence/terrorism.) The danger comes when a nation (ie, the guys who 
control the guns) is run by the apolegists, or people who hold similar 
viewpoints.

Put in another way, just because you really really REALLY believe you are 
right doesn't give anyone the right to create huge amounts of turmoil and 
death in someone else's country.

-TD

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
>Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:59:56 -0700
>
>     --
>J.A. Terranson:
> > > > So if I was to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of
> > > > Ci into the local subway system "As payback for Ruby
> > > > Ridge", this would not be an act of terrorism?
>
>James A. Donald:
> > > That would be terrorism, because regardless of what you
> > > *said* your intent was, you would not be targeting those
> > > responsible for Ruby Ridge.
>
>J.A. Terranson:
> > And if the station I chose just happened to be the one
> > servicing ATF?
>
>If your intent was to nail passing BATF employees, surely
>hitting closer to their office would be more effectual.  Spray
>some radioactives in the entrance lobby.
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      KWVunJBmZ52AZSOdaQb2Q5Zoz2Crn5g0U31NRSlo
>      4iLTYoVpo0AgmiEow46ObxjN4dPkqPP6I0kKDTG+9

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From justin-cypherpunks at soze.net  Mon Oct 25 15:09:07 2004
From: justin-cypherpunks at soze.net (Justin)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:09:07 +0000
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <20041025220907.GA18059@arion.soze.net>

On 2004-10-25T22:32:48+0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 03:20:28PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> 
> > *Nobody* was a counterbalance to Tim, me or anyone else. Simple fact, no
> > matter how much he pissed on my shoes, or anyone else's.
> 
> What's he up to these days? It seems he got tired of of USENET, too

Maybe an assassin got past his home defense network?




From eugen at leitl.org  Mon Oct 25 13:32:48 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:32:48 +0200
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com>
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org>

On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 03:20:28PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

> *Nobody* was a counterbalance to Tim, me or anyone else. Simple fact, no
> matter how much he pissed on my shoes, or anyone else's.

What's he up to these days? It seems he got tired of of USENET, too

	http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tcmay%40got.net&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&safe=of
f&sa=G&scoring=d

Too bad.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 26 14:19:35 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:19:35 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F30BkHP4aXQRm000286f1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost>

    --
On 25 Oct 2004 at 21:03, Tyler Durden wrote:
> The point is this: Almost and "side" in this world that has
> committed or commits atrocities can find a true-believing
> apolegist.

Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny
and slavery.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     9UPtpcIvFgtu2JFnBNLIA/QPpXk7MkK68mtvmQya
     45I4CX0wox3d7YrExie7R1Q+2YFGk2ao4amh5DlM6




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 26 14:38:39 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:38:39 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F38c0y82gv5Gm00038080@hotmail.com>

>Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny
>and slavery.

Exactly.

-TD



>
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      9UPtpcIvFgtu2JFnBNLIA/QPpXk7MkK68mtvmQya
>      45I4CX0wox3d7YrExie7R1Q+2YFGk2ao4amh5DlM6

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From roy at rant-central.com  Tue Oct 26 15:23:55 2004
From: roy at rant-central.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:23:55 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost>
Message-ID: <1098829435.25310.15.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:19 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

> Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend tyranny
> and slavery.

Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent
conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the
correctness of their interpretation.  When the conflict is of a historic
scale, the loser is often too dead to object.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is roy at rant-central.com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 26 15:38:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:38:35 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098829435.25310.15.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost> 
  <1098829435.25310.15.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
Message-ID: <p061104d3bda4825ade3b@[66.149.49.5]>

At 6:23 PM -0400 10/26/04, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
>Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent
>conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the
>correctness of their interpretation.  When the conflict is of a historic
>scale, the loser is often too dead to object.

...and your point is?

:-).

Same as it ever was,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'





From roy at rant-central.com  Tue Oct 26 16:14:20 2004
From: roy at rant-central.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:14:20 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <p061104d3bda4825ade3b@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost> 	
  <1098829435.25310.15.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com> 	
  <p061104d3bda4825ade3b@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <1098832460.27087.2.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 18:38 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> At 6:23 PM -0400 10/26/04, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
> >Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given violent
> >conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to proclaim the
> >correctness of their interpretation.  When the conflict is of a historic
> >scale, the loser is often too dead to object.
> 
> ...and your point is?

Oh, sorry... I thought we were stating and restating the very obvious.

> Same as it ever was,

Indeed.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is roy at rant-central.com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com




From cme at acm.org  Tue Oct 26 21:00:01 2004
From: cme at acm.org (Carl Ellison)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:00:01 -0700
Subject: Deadline extended to November 5th - Fourth Annual PKI R&D Workshop
Message-ID: <mailman.1058.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

The deadline for paper submissions to the "Fourth Annual PKI R&D Workshop:
Multiple Paths to Trust" and has been extended until 5:00 PM Pacific time
on Friday November 5th.

<http://middleware.internet2.edu/pki05/>http://middleware.internet2.edu/pki05/

This year, the workshop has a particular interest in how emergent trust
mechanisms will interact with each other mechanisms at the technical,
policy and user levels.

Clifford Neuman

Program Committee Chair



--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jamesd at echeque.com  Tue Oct 26 21:10:03 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:10:03 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098829435.25310.15.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost>
Message-ID: <417EBD2B.29322.EAC06@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend 
> > tyranny and slavery.

Roy M. Silvernail
> Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given 
> violent conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to 
> proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.

A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian 
as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, 
that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist 
conspiracy, so in place of obvious truths, we can substitute 
any ridiculous fantasy that we find politically conforting, for 
example  Tyler Durden's fantasy that the US attacked Korea, and 
attacked to impose poverty on Koreans so that the US can be 
rich, or the widely popular fantasy that the CIA trained Osama 
Bin Laden.  Seeing as Bin Laden's contribution to the 
revolutionary war against the Soviets was merely roadbuilding, 
did they train him in roadbuilding? 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     AErjoTRu9URKg4L+F5xjlOq35GQBD2reuyMhDJ5b
     46ur5/+9ZCqnZu8EDgtmmeUH93ImKPyfT6+Pj/QUE




From rah at shipwright.com  Tue Oct 26 19:51:43 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:51:43 -0400
Subject: E-Vote Vendors Hand Over Software
Message-ID: <p06110402bda4bda7c45c@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,65490,00.html>

Wired News

E-Vote Vendors Hand Over Software 
By Kim Zetter?

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65490,00.html

03:00 PM Oct. 26, 2004 PT

In an effort to increase the integrity of next week's presidential
election, five voting machine makers agreed for the first time to submit
their software to the National Software Reference Library for safekeeping,
federal officials said on Tuesday.

 The stored software will serve as a comparison tool for election officials
should they need to determine whether anyone tampered with programs
installed on voting equipment.


 The National Software Reference Library is part of an election security
initiative launched by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, a new
federal entity that Congress created after the Florida 2000 election
problems. The EAC is the first federal entity established to improve the
integrity and efficiency of elections.

 DeForest Soaries, chairman of the EAC, in June requested software from the
largest voting companies, which provide 90 percent of the software to be
used in computerized voting machines on Tuesday. The EAC will eventually
ask all voting companies, even those that produce counting software for
punch card machines, to submit their software.

 Soaries called the library a major step and praised the vendors for their
willingness to increase the transparency of elections.

 "Their acceptance of our request to submit their software begins the
process that assures the country that we will have (a) higher level of
security and therefore confidence in e-voting than we have ever had
before," Soaries said in a press conference.

 The National Institute of Standards and Technology -- the agency that sets
official measurements and defines standards for all kinds of commercial
products -- will maintain the voting software library. NIST already manages
a library of other types of software, like the Windows 2000 operating
system, to help law enforcement investigate crimes involving computers.
Doug White, the library's project leader, said NIST stores applications on
CDs in a room that is similar to a criminal investigator's evidence locker,
which means the software can be used as evidence in a court.

 Counties and states will eventually be able to use the library to verify
that they are using a certified version of software. This is good news to
Scott Konopasek, the registrar of voters for San Bernardino County in
California. In September, after California certified a new version of
software for his county's voting system, the vendor, Sequoia Voting
Systems, sent Konopasek the software to load on his machines. But when
Konopasek asked the state to verify that the software the vendor gave him
was unchanged from the version the state certified, state officials told
him they had no means to verify it and that Konopasek would have to trust
the vendor.

 Vendor trust was precisely the measure of verification the state was using
last November when it discovered that Diebold Election Systems had
installed uncertified software on machines in 17 California counties
without telling the state.

 NIST's voting software library was established too late this year to
examine software that has already been loaded onto locked voting machines,
so election officials won't be able to verify that they have unchanged,
certified software before Tuesday's election.

 But if questions about the veracity of a voting system arise after the
election, computer forensic experts will be able to compare the software
used on machines with the software in the NIST library to see if the
software was altered. They can do this by comparing hash files, which are
digital fingerprints that identify the integrity of software. The hash is a
mathematical sum derived from the software code. If someone changes the
software, the mathematical sum changes as well.

 "This gives us one more mechanism for assuring voters that their votes
have been recorded and reported correctly and haven't been tampered with,"
Konopasek said. "There's no one single thing that election officials will
ever be able to do to convince everyone. But the more we can add to our
inventory of audits and controls, the more we can establish confidence of
voters -- not just the technically savvy voters, but all voters."

 Soaries acknowledged that the library alone can't secure elections and
voting systems but can only work in concert with other procedures. And the
EAC still has to work out several issues related to the library, such as
who will be responsible for checking hashes before an election if county
election officials don't have someone knowledgeable on staff to do so. EAC
has to determine how best to handle patches, or last-minute fixes and
upgrades to machines. Currently, it will be up to the county and vendor to
decide whether to resubmit that software to the library before an election.
And the EAC has to establish a policy for dealing with false positives --
that is, when a hash check indicates that software has changed when it
actually hasn't.

 In addition to the library, the Commission has instigated several measures
to increase the integrity of elections. These include developing new voting
machine standards that would require voting machine companies to make
machines that are more secure.

 The commission is also looking at developing national standards for
election procedures to establish uniform methods for physically securing
voting machines and providing checks and balances to prevent and catch
voter fraud. Additionally, the commission has been speaking about creating
a clearinghouse to gather reports from states and counties about problems
they encounter with voting equipment.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From alan at clueserver.org  Wed Oct 27 03:18:58 2004
From: alan at clueserver.org (alan)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <1098874216.9814.9.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0410270317400.19797-100000@www.fnordora.org>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:

> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:10 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> >     --
> > James A. Donald:
> > > > Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend 
> > > > tyranny and slavery.
> > 
> > Roy M. Silvernail
> > > Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given 
> > > violent conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to 
> > > proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.
> > 
> > A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian 
> > as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, 
> > that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist 
> > conspiracy, 
> 
> No claim in evidence.  Just the observation that any justificaton for a
> violent conflict is necessarily subjective.

It does not have to be *true*, you just have to get others to believe it.

Of course, the current administration has been handing them example after 
example to point to to make the point...

-- 
chown -R us ./base




From roy at rant-central.com  Wed Oct 27 03:50:15 2004
From: roy at rant-central.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:50:15 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417EBD2B.29322.EAC06@localhost>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost> 	
  <417EBD2B.29322.EAC06@localhost>
Message-ID: <1098874216.9814.9.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>

On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:10 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>     --
> James A. Donald:
> > > Moral equivalence, the rationale of those who defend 
> > > tyranny and slavery.
> 
> Roy M. Silvernail
> > Moral superiority, the rationale of both sides of any given 
> > violent conflict.  The winner gets to use the victory to 
> > proclaim the correctness of their interpretation.
> 
> A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian 
> as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted, 
> that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist 
> conspiracy, 

No claim in evidence.  Just the observation that any justificaton for a
violent conflict is necessarily subjective.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is roy at rant-central.com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com




From chris.kuethe at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 07:57:34 2004
From: chris.kuethe at gmail.com (Chris Kuethe)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:57:34 -0600
Subject: Fwd: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <91981b3e04102707563314f6b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 	  
  <91981b3e04102707563314f6b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91981b3e0410270757f528084@mail.gmail.com>

meant to send this to the list too....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Chris Kuethe <chris.kuethe at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:56:45 -0600
Subject: Re: the simian unelected is blocking the world
X-Approval-Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net:    Non-member submission from [Chris Kuethe <chris.kuethe at gmail.com>]   
To: Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org>


On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:11:59 +0200, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:
>
> Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
> space.
>
> Access Denied
> You don't have permission to access "http://www.georgewbush.com/" on this
> server.

Hrmmmmm. Shrub
a) has now disabled the geo-ip test or
b) considers .ca to be part of .us because

from my cable modem (rDNS = .net) I can get to the site just fine, and
I can also get to it from work (rDNS = .ca)

> ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org

Germany, no? Have your politicians pissed of Shrub lately? I'm
surprised I can see the site, what with various provincial governments
tossing around memos referring to him as "Shrub".

--
GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?


-- 
GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 07:02:48 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:02:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <20041027090209.N26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
> space.

Works from 204.238.179.0/24.  Where are your coming in from?

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 06:37:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:37:35 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <417EBD2B.29322.EAC06@localhost>
References: <417E5CF7.7950.453E0B9@localhost> 
  <417EBD2B.29322.EAC06@localhost>
Message-ID: <p06110405bda552e6bff1@[66.149.49.5]>

At 9:10 PM -0700 10/26/04, James A. Donald wrote:
>fantasy that the US attacked Korea, and
>attacked to impose poverty on Koreans so that the US can be
>rich,

This is actually the running fantasy in Marxism since the 1950's, when it
turned out that that, instead of the "workers" eating the "bourgeoisie" by
the firelight or some Glorious Revolution or another, would instead be come
"bourgeoisie" themselves.

So, seeing their utter failure to create "workers" paradise in the
industrial West, they decided to change their unit of "analysis" from
people to nation-states.

Of course, India, various parts of broken up legislated or
forcibly-conquered pseudostates, like Slovenia, the Baltics, even Mongolia
and China itself, have shown that "capitalism" -- Marx's word for
"economics", or "markets", or "individual freedom" depending on your scale
of "analysis" -- has the same effect there that it did in the US and Europe
in the 1950's. Or the 1850's, for that matter.

Marxists, and their fellow-travellers of all dilutions, from actual
card-carriers to "liberals" in the US are such worthess assholes, and such
"state-is-a-person" "analyses" are so much projectile excrement from same.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From kathrynb at oreilly.com  Wed Oct 27 09:38:28 2004
From: kathrynb at oreilly.com (Kathryn Barrett)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:38:28 -0700
Subject: "Spam Kings" Released by O'Reilly
Message-ID: <mailman.1059.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

For Immediate Release
For more information, a review copy, cover art, or an interview with
the author, contact:
Kathryn Barrett (707) 827-7094 or kathrynb at oreilly.com

The Real Story Behind the High-Rolling Hucksters Pushing Porn, Pills,
and @*#?% Enlargements
O'Reilly Releases "Spam Kings"

Sebastopol, CA--At one time, spammer Davis Wolfgang Hawke grossed more
than $600,000 per month selling herbal male enhancement products over the
Internet. His customers came from all walks of life--CEOs, mutual fund
managers, soldiers, housewives, landscapers--in other words, people who
should have known better. Most people consider spam to be at least an
irritation; many consider it to be more: a scourge, a significant drain on
resources and money, a violation of the sanctity of one's personal
computer, even an assault against one's moral sensibilities.

With spam making up more than sixty percent of today's email traffic, it
is indeed a problem, but is the problem solely the fault of the spammers?
Brian McWilliams, author of "Spam Kings: The Real Story Behind the
High-Rolling Hucksters Pushing Porn, Pills, and @*#?% Enlargements"
(O'Reilly, US $22.95, hardback), explores the shadowy world of the people
responsible for today's junk email epidemic. McWilliams reveals the
motivations and practices of the people who fill our email in-boxes with
spam, but he also points out, "Hawke's customer list just underscores one
of the key issues of the book. Spammers are willing to put up with all
sorts of wrath and attacks because they honestly believe customers want
what they have to offer."

McWilliams, an experienced investigative journalist who gained
international attention in 2002 when he wrote about the contents of Saddam
Hussein's email in-box for "Wired News," offers a fascinating account of
activities of spam entrepreneurs in search of easy money. He chronicles
the careers of several spam kings, including Hawke, the notorious Jewish-
born neo-Nazi leader.  The book traces this twenty-year old neophyte's
rise in the trade, which would make him a major player in the penis
enlargement pill market--and eventually a millionaire and the target of
lawsuits from AOL and others.

"Like a lot of people, I get tons of junk email," McWilliams explains. "But
in May, 2003, I was deluged with over one hundred spams for pills from  the
same company, all in a two-week span. I managed to trace the messages
to a firm in nearby Manchester, New Hampshire. I discovered spammers
practically in my backyard, and I decided to tell the world about it."

"I set out to write about the dozen or so spammers whom I thought were the
best representatives of this strange species," McWilliams continues. "But
in the process of researching the book, I was surprised to learn how
interconnected many of them were.  There's definitely less than seven
degrees of separation between the spam kings--and sometimes even
between the spammers and their antagonists, the anti-spammers."

In addition to Hawke, McWilliams introduces readers to other bizarre
denizens of the spam underworld, including Sanford Wallace, one of the
original spam kings, who insists that spam is a First Amendment right;
Jason Vale, the champion arm-wrestler and cancer survivor whose spam
messages promote Laetrile as a cure for cancer; Alan Moore, known as Dr.
Fatburn to his diet-pill customers; Rodona Garst, middle-class,
white-collar suburbanite by day, running stock pump-and-dump scams in her
spare time; and a fascinating assortment of others.

But "Spam Kings" isn't just about spammers; it also tells the story of
anti-spam cyber-activists, like Susan Gunn, a computer novice in
California whose outrage led her to join a group of anti-spammers.
McWilliams reports that in September 2004, the FTC recommended that
Congress consider creating a bounty system for people who help catch
spammers. Says McWilliams, "At present, anti-spammers hunt down spammers
as unpaid volunteers, but that could change if Congress decides to put a
bounty on a spammer's pelt."

In June, 2004, McWilliams notes, "AOL revealed that one of its employees
had sold AOL's entire member database to spammers. One of the people who
bought that list was Davis Hawke, the central figure of 'Spam Kings.'
Hawke's partner, Brad Bournival, was the unidentified source who
cooperated with law enforcement and enabled them to arrest two men in June
for the theft. The case is still pending, with indictments due any day."

McWilliams acknowledges that there are much bigger problems in the world
than spam, "But on the Internet, it's arguably THE biggest problem, since
junk email is limiting our ability to communicate, and communication is
the whole point of the Internet." McWilliams believes that eventually
technology will reduce spam back to a minor nuisance.  "But in the
meantime," he says, "the root of the spam problem is people; specifically,
the folks who buy from spammers. There's a big market out there of what I
call 'furtive shoppers'--people who want convenient, anonymous access to
shady products like porn, fake Rolex watches, drugs without prescriptions,
cable de-scramblers, and 'free' government grants."

"Spam Kings" sheds light on the technical sleight-of-hand--forged headers,
open relays, harvesting tools, and bulletproof hosting--and other sleazy
business practices that spammers use; the work of top anti-spam attorneys;
the surprising new partnership developing between spammers and computer
hackers; and the rise of a new breed of computer viruses designed to turn
the PCs of innocent bystanders into secret spam factories.

Praise for "Spam Kings":

"The inside story of who's behind all that junk filling up your inbox is
both good reporting and a good read. All the scum-sucking bottom-dwellers
of the spam underworld are represented, as well as many of the unsung
heroes in the war against unwanted email. "Spam Kings" should be required
reading for anyone who hates spam--which includes just about everybody
except spammers."
--Daniel Tynan, contributing editor, PC World

"Spam Kings" deftly exposes these creeps, humanizes them, and helps us to
understand how and why they do what they do. It isn't a pretty picture but
is one we all should look at and understand. Read this book."
--Robert X. Cringely, creator of the PBS documentary, "Triumph of the Nerds"

"Like a deep-sea photographer, McWilliams brings us a shocking series of
portraits of the bizzare creatures feeding and fighting at the bottom of
the Internet. Anyone who has wondered what kind of person would send spam
can find the answer here. The truth is stranger than fiction, and more
disturbing, as their tentacles reach us daily."
--Jason Catlett, founder and president of Junkbusters Corporation

Further reviews of "Spam Kings" can be read at:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/spamkings/reviews.html

Additional Resources:

Chapter 1, "Birth of a Spam King," is available online at:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/spamkings/chapter/index.html

For more information about the book, including table of contents, index,
author bio, and samples, see:
http://www.spamkings.biz

For a cover graphic in JPEG format, go to:
ftp://ftp.ora.com/pub/graphics/book_covers/hi-res/0596007329.jpg

Spam Kings
Brian McWilliams
ISBN 0-596-00732-9, 333 pages, $22.95 US, $33.95 CA
order at oreilly.com
1-800-998-9938
1-707-827-7000
http://www.oreilly.com

About O'Reilly
O'Reilly Media, Inc. is the premier information source for leading-edge
computer technologies. The company's books, conferences, and web sites
bring to light the knowledge of technology innovators. O'Reilly books,
known for the animals on their covers, occupy a treasured place on the
shelves of the developers building the next generation of software.
O'Reilly conferences and summits bring alpha geeks and forward-thinking
business leaders together to shape the revolutionary ideas that spark new
industries. From the Internet to XML, open source, .NET, Java, and web
services, O'Reilly puts technologies on the map. For more information:
http://www.oreilly.com

# # #

O'Reilly is a registered trademark of O'Reilly Media, Inc. All other
trademarks are property of their respective owners.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 07:41:44 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:41:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027140854.GJ1457@leitl.org>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
  <20041027090209.N26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <20041027140854.GJ1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <20041027094048.H26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> > > Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^

Ooops, I mangled your report.  Ugh.

<Emily Litella>

	Never Mind...

</EmilyLitella>

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 06:53:06 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:53:06 -0400
Subject: New 32-bit SIM Chip from STMicroelectronics
Message-ID: <p0611040bbda557e8ec76@[66.149.49.5]>

>The core includes dedicated DES (Data Encryption Standard) instructions
>for Secret Key cryptography, and a fast Multiply and Accumulate
>instruction for Public Key (RSA) and Elliptic Curve cryptography, plus a
>CRC (Cyclic Redundency Check) instruction. A firmware cryptographic
>subroutine library is located in a secure ROM area to save designers the
>need to code first-layer functions.


<http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2004/Oct/1087666.htm>

Technology Marketing Corporation
TMCNet



[October 27, 2004]

New 32-bit SIM Chip from STMicroelectronics Will Benefit Mobile Phone
Multimedia Services
 GENEVA, Oct. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- STMicroelectronics has announced
a new smartcard MCU in its ST22 range -- based on the SmartJ(TM)
Java-accelerated RISC architecture -- which integrates 256-kbytes of EEPROM
memory with a high performance CPU to support the demands of multimedia
applications on the latest mobile phones.


 With sales of multimedia-equipped handsets booming, mobile communications
operators supporting 3G (Third Generation) and 2.5G mobile phones need
(U)SIM cards (Universal Subscriber Identity Modules) that have sufficient
memory capacity to store Multimedia Messaging System (MMS) data, video, and
photographic images, coupled with the capability to transfer and use this
data efficiently to provide advanced phonebooks and audio-visual services.
2.5G is an intermediate level of service that uses an enhanced
second-generation technology to provide some of the 3G features over GPRS
(General Packet Radio Service).
 "The ST22N256 is perfectly in line with the growing demand for secure
high-performance chips with high-speed interfaces and a large memory
capacity, for use in 2.5 and 3G SIMs," said Reza Kazerounian, General
Manager of ST's Smart Card ICs Division. "ST already offers the largest
range of secure 32-bit processors for smartcard systems, and will remain at
the forefront of smartcard silicon suppliers as 3G takes off."
 The SmartJ CPU core at the heart of ST22 Family -- which the new ST22N256
now combines with 256-kbytes of EEPROM -- is a 32-bit RISC-architecture
core developed specifically to provide very fast execution of Java, the
programming language commonly used for small applications, or applets,
downloaded to mobile phones. The ST22 augments its own highly efficient
native RISC instruction set with a hardware decoder that directly converts
Java bytecodes into native microcode instructions, thereby eliminating the
overhead and lower performance of processors based on Java emulation. The
result is not only very fast Java execution but also reduced power
consumption.
 An essential component of all GSM (Global System for Mobile
Communications) mobile phones, the SIM card stores critical subscriber
authentication information; private data such as personal phone
directories, messages, audio, and images; and the operating system and
operator's multimedia environment. With the quantity and size of users' MMS
messages increasing, operators will now be able to provide increased
storage for subscriber data without impacting user friendliness, due to the
exceptional performance of the ST22N256's SmartJ processor, and its
communication through a fast Asynchronous Serial Interface (ASI) which
enables 440-kbit/s communication speeds with mobile equipment, in line with
the fastest deployments of ISO 7816 in the GSM world. Two additional serial
I/O ports are also provided.
 The Java-accelerated CPU ensures that the ST22N256 not only provides the
memory needed for today's multimedia services (M-services), but also the
processing power to exploit it. The core, with 24-bit linear memory
addressing, is complemented by 368-kbytes of on-chip ROM, 16-kbytes of RAM,
and a set of standard peripherals and custom plug-in circuits. Logical and
physical security mechanisms are fully integrated into the silicon,
including a hardware Memory Protection Unit for application firewalling and
peripheral access control, and a protected Context Stack. The core includes
dedicated DES (Data Encryption Standard) instructions for Secret Key
cryptography, and a fast Multiply and Accumulate instruction for Public Key
(RSA) and Elliptic Curve cryptography, plus a CRC (Cyclic Redundency Check)
instruction. A firmware cryptographic subroutine library is located in a
secure ROM area to save designers the need to code first-layer functions.
 The ST22 product platform is supported by a comprehensive Integrated
Development Environment, which allows coding, compilation, and debugging
using a common interface. It provides a code-generation chain that includes
a C/C++ compiler, a native and JavaCard assembler and a linker, plus a
SmartJ instruction set simulator, C/C++ source level debugger, and hardware
emulation tools. Operating System developers currently working with the
128-kbyte ST22L128 will be able to benefit from the design continuity
offered by the ST22N256, as well as its immediate availability and
compliance with the fastest communication standard adopted by handset
manufacturers.
 The SmartJ development methodology allows customers to significantly
reduce the time and cost of developing secure applications. It supports
concurrent hardware and software development, multiple development teams
and IP reuse, as well as security evaluation to the Common Criteria and the
use of formal methods for security assurance through executable high-level
specifications and model checking techniques.
 Development of the ST22N256 follows more than 20 years' experience in the
design of silicon products to the highest levels of security. ST is a major
manufacturer for the smartcard market, and is the number one supplier of
secure ICs to the financial sector for card applications. Over the years it
has evolved a "security culture" across design and manufacturing functions,
in addition to meeting the stringent requirements of formal security
certification.
 The ST22N256 is manufactured using 0.15-micron technology, and is
currently the only secure IC to combine 32-bit processing power with 256-
kbytes of EEPROM and 368-kbytes of ROM. It is available in sample form now,
with volume production starting 2005. US pricing for the product is between
$4 and $5, depending on quantity and final packaging.
 About STMicroelectronics
 STMicroelectronics is a global leader in developing and delivering
semiconductor solutions across the spectrum of microelectronics
applications. An unrivalled combination of silicon and system expertise,
manufacturing strength, Intellectual Property (IP) portfolio and strategic
partners positions the Company at the forefront of System-on-Chip (SoC)
technology and its products play a key role in enabling today's convergence
markets. The Company's shares are traded on the New York Stock Exchange, on
Euronext Paris and on the Milan Stock Exchange. In 2003, the Company's net
revenues were $7.24 billion and net earnings were $253 million. Further
information on ST can be found at http://www.st.com/.
 For further information, please contact

 INVESTOR RELATIONS:

 Stanley March Fabrizio Rossini Benoit de Leusse
 Vice President Senior Manager Director
 Investor Relations Investor Relations Investor Relations
 Tel: +1.212.821.89.39 Tel : +41.22.929.69.73 Tel : +41.22.929.58.12
 Fax : +1.212.821.89.23 Fax : +41.22.929.69.61 Fax : +41.22.929.69.61
 Email: Email: Email:
 stan.march at st.com fabrizio.rossini at st.com benoit.de-leusse at st.com

 MEDIA RELATIONS:

 Maria Grazia Prestini Michael Markowitz
 Director, Corporate Media Relations Director, U.S. Media Relations
 Tel: +41.2.29.29.69.45 Tel: +1.212.821.8959
 Fax: +41.2.29.29.69.50 Fax: +1.212.821.8922
 Email: mariagrazia.prestini at st.com Email: michael.markowitz at st.com

 STMicroelectronics


 CONTACT: INVESTORS: Stanley March, Vice President, Investor
Relations,+1-212-821-89-39, or fax, +1-212-821-89-23, stan.march at st.com, or
FabrizioRossini, Senior Manager, Investor Relations, +41-22-929-69-73, or
fax,+41-22-929-69-61, fabrizio.rossini at st.com, or Benoit de Leusse,
Director,Investor Relations, +41-22-929-58-12, or fax,
+41-22-929-69-61,benoit.de-leusse at st.com; or MEDIA: Maria Grazia Prestini,
Director, CorporateMedia Relations, +41-2-29-29-69-45, or fax,
+41-2-29-29-69-50,mariagrazia.prestini at st.com, or Michael Markowitz,
Director, U.S. MediaRelations, +1-212-821-8959, or fax, +1-212-821-8922,
michael.markowitz at st.com,all of STMicroelectronics


 Web site: http://www.st.com/

[ Back To TMCnet.com's Homepage ]





-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 06:55:08 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:55:08 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F28o8KK8ZtP0k0000fc2a@hotmail.com>

Mr Donald wrote...

>A claim that presupposes that the west is just as totalitarian
>as its enemies, that well known reality is not to be trusted,
>that newsmen and historians are servants of the vast capitalist
>conspiracy, so in place of obvious truths, we can substitute
>any ridiculous fantasy that we find politically conforting, for
>example  Tyler Durden's fantasy that the US attacked Korea, and
>attacked to impose poverty on Koreans so that the US can be
>rich

Once again you make the mistake that, because YOU are drinking from a spigot 
of hype, that because I disagree with you I must be drinking from some other 
spigot.

There are plenty of counter-examples to the "benefits" of US 
interventionism, particularly throughout central America. But I don't really 
want to debate that point, but instead focus on Iraq.

In Iraq this philosophy of "saving the locals from tyrrany" has taken a new 
turn. In this case, I actually believe that George W, Dick Cheney and the 
whole cabal believe that:

1. The best thing for the Iraqis would be a western-style free-market 
economy. (Check?)
2. An Iraqi free market would slowly stabilise the whole middle east region. 
(Check?)
3. Iraq has resources (ie, oil) that could be utilized to kick-start a true 
industrialized economy (Check?)
4. The US has the ability to extract that oil and then turn those dollars 
into local goods-and-services, thus kickstarting forementioned Iraqi 
industrialization (Check?)
5. Meanwhile, Saddam was really, really bad and a terrorist and he's got all 
sorts of scary WMDs.
6. It is therefore in everybody's best interests for the US to kick out 
Saddam and get this party started.
7. Oh, and the US will benefit too (as we should) as we help ole' man Iraq 
get back on his feet.

But apparently, the locals are not particularly happy about the unilateral 
decisions we've been making in their benefit. Of course, you might chalk 
this up to fanaticism/Islam or whatever, but I suspect they just don't trust 
us (Abu Ghraib), and remember the fact that it was the US that propped up 
Saddam as long as he stuck to the script.

Who knows? If Bush & Co are able to steal this election, maybe in a year or 
two (after the death toll hits the 5 digit mark) we'll start hearing about 
how Saddam wasn't so bad after all, and why don't we give him a second 
chance? (We'll watch him closely, so don't you worry!)

-TD




>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      AErjoTRu9URKg4L+F5xjlOq35GQBD2reuyMhDJ5b
>      46ur5/+9ZCqnZu8EDgtmmeUH93ImKPyfT6+Pj/QUE

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 06:56:44 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:56:44 -0400
Subject: US Bancorp teams up with VeriSign on banking security
Message-ID: <p0611040cbda558f72c03@[66.149.49.5]>

>The bank will use VeriSign's Unified Authentication service to validate
>and secure interactions with commercial banking customers, providing them
>with a secure USB token that they must use when accessing services online.


>Those tokens will hold a digital certificate that identifies the bearer
>and will need to be inserted into machines before accessing web-based
>commercial banking applications, Lin said.



<http://www.computerweekly.com/print/ArticlePrinterPage.asp?liArtID=134593&liFlavourID=1>


Printed from ComputerWeekly.com

Technology: Security Products
Wednesday 27 October 2004
US Bancorp teams up with VeriSign on banking security
US Bancorp will use a hardware-token based authentication service from
VeriSign to secure access to commercial banking services for its customers.

The bank will use VeriSign's Unified Authentication service to validate and
secure interactions with commercial banking customers, providing them with
a secure USB token that they must use when accessing services online.

The deal is just the latest evidence of renewed interest in so-called
"multifactor" authentication within the banking industry, which is
struggling with an epidemic of sophisticated online identity theft scams,
according to Judy Lin, executive vice-president for VeriSign's security
services.

As part of the programme, US Bancorp will make VeriSign security tokens
available to more than 10,000 commercial banking customers. Those tokens
will hold a digital certificate that identifies the bearer and will need to
be inserted into machines before accessing web-based commercial banking
applications, Lin said.

The Unified Authentication service combines VeriSign-branded eToken USB
authentication devices from Aladdin Knowledge Systems with a managed
validation service that runs on VeriSign's infrastructure.

It also includes software modules that plug into a bank's existing back-end
infrastructure. Banks can also choose to operate their own validation
server as part of the service, Lin said.

At US Bancorp, the authentication service will be integrated with existing
user directory and identity management technology, validating interactions
between the bank and its customers. A server operated by VeriSign will
handle token validation, but no customer information will leave US
Bancorp's network in the process, she said.

VeriSign launched the Unified Authentication service in September as an
extension of its Intelligence and ControlSM Services, which offer
businesses network security information and tools.

User login and permission information resides in the customer's user
directory, but is linked to a unique serial number for a secure token or
other authentication device stored on a VeriSign server. Login requests by
users will be passed to the VeriSign server, where a stored algorithm will
validate that the serial number of the secure token or the one-time
password is valid for the user requesting access, VeriSign said.

US Bancorp  is the eighth largest bank in the US.

The bank is looking into a similar programme for its consumer banking
customers, although such a service would likely forgo use of USB hardware
tokens, which can cost $20 or more each. Instead, inexpensive solutions
such as plastic cards with lists of single-use passwords could be employed,
she said. 

Paul Roberts writes for IDG News Service


) 2004 ComputerWeekly.com Ltd. All rights reserved



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 06:59:47 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:59:47 -0400
Subject: Deadline extended to November 5th - Fourth Annual PKI R&D 
  Workshop
Message-ID: <p0611040dbda55a4a7b88@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 07:23:13 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:23:13 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>

At 12:11 PM +0200 10/27/04, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>Ha Ha Curious George.

Just for fun, I bet the reason is economics. No need to have yew furriners
hammerin' our http ports, 'cuz ya cain't vote, here, anyway.

Okay. Except in Florida and Ohio.

;-)

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From andrew at ceruleansystems.com  Wed Oct 27 10:36:38 2004
From: andrew at ceruleansystems.com (J. Andrew Rogers)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:36:38 -0700
Subject: [FoRK] Google buys Keyhole
Message-ID: <mailman.1060.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

Finally.

I've been sitting on this story for weeks, and I was looking forward to
this morning because there is a lot about this deal that is worth
talking about, particularly with regard to how this fits into Google's
portfolio.  Even though I knew about the deal, I have no clue as to the
reasoning why Google bought them.  All the talk about them being a "map
provider" is a bit of nonsense, since Keyhole is a hell of a lot more
than a map provider.  If they wanted maps they could have gone to the
source, since it isn't like Keyhole creates their own map data --
Keyhole is more of a data integrator.

Salient points:

- Keyhole is fussy Windows-only client software (something that won't
change soon), which appears to be a departure from Google's normally
web-centric applications.

- Keyhole can consume some serious bandwidth, and isn't really something
that will scale to average home use (in many different ways) without
wholesale re-architecting of the system.

- Keyhole has terabytes of very interesting databases, many of which are
not public.  For example, the US DoD has become fond of using Keyhole to
process all sorts of reconnaissance, intelligence, and battle planning
data.  And more Federal agencies and foreign governments are moving to
do the same.



I've maintained for some time that Google is very aggressively trying to
position themselves as a very deep data-mining operation, and are
facilitating that by arranging that as much data as possible flow
through their systems.  I've stated in the past that they have the
potential to be super-evil, if only because of the access they are being
granted to vast ranges of data, which many people seem more than happy
to grant.  From that perspective, I find the above points worrisome.

It will be very interesting to see what they do with this.

cheers,

j. andrew rogers

_______________________________________________
FoRK mailing list
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

----- End forwarded message -----
--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 27 10:41:39 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:41:39 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <26293622.1098893251282.JavaMail.root@scooter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <417F7B63.13654.82F781@localhost>

    --
"R.A. Hettinga"
> > This is actually the running fantasy in Marxism since the
> > 1950's, when it turned out that that, instead of the
> > "workers" eating the "bourgeoisie" by the firelight or some
> > Glorious Revolution or another, would instead be come
> > "bourgeoisie" themselves.

John Kelsey
> I think this bit gets at the heart of why the Islamic
> fundamentalists are hard to deal with.  For most people I
> know, some notion of peace and prosperity is the thing we
> want from our governments. [...]
>
> The Islamic fundamentalists can't offer that.  [...] No
> peace, not much prosperity, but a lot of capital-P Purpose. 
> A place in history, a part of the Jihad.  In this sense, it's
> a lot like Marxism was, back when it had serious adherents;
> it's a mass movement, like Eric Hoffer talks about.

Mass movements of this kind require the promise of inevitable
victory. When communism suffered one decisive, uncomplicated,
unambiguous defeat, the dominos fell one after another all the
way to Moscow.  The remaining communists have made some
psychological recovery - see for example Tyler Durden's
peculiar version of recent history, where in his universe the
communists actually won and are still winning, and similarly
the Islamists have made a considerable psychological recovery
from Afghanistan, but the ideal of date with destiny tends to
lose its appeal when you keep picking yourself off the dirt
with a bloody nose.

In Iraq we face a guerrila movement, and discover, yet again,
that guerrilas can only be defeated by local forces - and the
boys from Baghdad are not all that local.  This gives the
Islamicists renewed hope.

So what do you do, if, like Israel, you face terrorists
embedded in a local population that supports thems sufficiently
they can melt into the people?  Withdrawal did not work, for
the terrorists keep sending car bombs and the like from their
stronghold, as in Fallujah.

What worked in Afghanistan was to find some local warlord we
could live with, someone in no hurry to get his six pack of
virgins, someone who might want to put sacks over the heads of
the women of his town, but had no grandiose ambitions to stuff
all the women of the world into bags, and then we cut a deal
with him - we help him his slay his enemies, he helps us slay
our enemies.

Unfortunately the US plan to bring democracy to the middle
east, and to preserve Iraq as a unitary state, keeps getting in
the way of this sort of deal. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     o32eoG4KhmccNjDBkOW9upEtn8Lka3zsooGJn8lY
     4dMgCNOmt5z/S3km7vma/L6RECrRaVEmnhEZ4E2hb




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 27 10:57:14 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:57:14 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F28o8KK8ZtP0k0000fc2a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417F7F0A.9207.913D0A@localhost>

    --
On 27 Oct 2004 at 9:55, Tyler Durden wrote:
> There are plenty of counter-examples to the "benefits" of US 
> interventionism, particularly throughout central America.

We saw that when the Soviet Union fell, the US lost interest in 
central America, and peace and democracy broke out in central 
America with the victory of those forces that had formerly 
received US backing, and the defeat of those forces that had 
formerly received Soviet backing, showing that US meddling in 
central America, was, as it was claimed to be, a defensive 
response to Soviet meddling, a defensive response that had the 
support of the people of central America, and that the 
suffering of central America was in substantial part caused by 
Soviet meddling.

> But apparently, the locals are not particularly happy about 
> the unilateral decisions we've been making in their benefit. 
> Of course, you might chalk this up to fanaticism/Islam or 
> whatever, but I suspect they just don't trust us (Abu 
> Ghraib),

Sure they don't trust us, but observe that in the Afghan 
election, Karzai got 56% of the vote, and the 
soft-on-the-taliban guys got much the same vote as the supposed 
representatives of the oppressed masses in Central America - 
down in the asterixes.  I predict a very similar election 
outcome in Iraq.  Sadr may get a dangerously large vote,
possibly as large as the Nazis got in the Weimar republic, but
anyone who looks aligned with the car bombers will be down in
the asterixes.

> and remember the fact that it was the US that propped up 
> Saddam as long as he stuck to the script.

Another tale from your odd parallel universe where the US 
attacked Korea. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     zEWlCJhdBBReeJ2Tnl5midyyezqcb0uz+y18EzpX
     4OAEBY/Hw5iw7juSxIfTFKJsXQRt7junqQKOiLZ07




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Wed Oct 27 09:07:30 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:07:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <26293622.1098893251282.JavaMail.root@scooter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>Sent: Oct 27, 2004 9:37 AM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)

...

>This is actually the running fantasy in Marxism since the 1950's, when it
>turned out that that, instead of the "workers" eating the "bourgeoisie" by
>the firelight or some Glorious Revolution or another, would instead be come
>"bourgeoisie" themselves.

I think this bit gets at the heart of why the Islamic fundamentalists are hard to deal with.  For most people I know, some notion of peace and prosperity is the thing we want from our governments.  Different people differ on how to do that (like, whether the government should employ most of the doctors or the teachers),  but that's the kind of goal that makes sense.  And that's largely what the West has to offer.  Not membership in a master race, or a date with destiny, or as vision of yourself as part of a great, centuries-old Jihad, but safe streets, working sewers, functioning markets, and a rising tide that promises to life all boats eventually, so that one day, your poor people, like ours, will be overweight from spending too much time sitting in front of the TV in an air conditioned room.  

The Islamic fundamentalists can't offer that.  A country run by these guys is just not going to be in the forefront of technology, its economy will grow slowly, and it's likely to always be close to going to war with some infidels around it.  No peace, not much prosperity, but a lot of capital-P Purpose.  A place in history, a part of the Jihad.  In this sense, it's a lot like Marxism was, back when it had serious adherents; it's a mass movement, like Eric Hoffer talks about.  What Hayek called the liberal order (e.g., working minimal government, liberal democracy, rule of law) can't offer any of that.   It offers safe streets and working sewers and peace and prosperity, but you have to come up with your own purpose.  

The irony is that the neocons seemed to be trying to build up a kind of mass movement mentality in the US, which clearly has caught George Bush and his top advisors--this wonderful notion that we're going to go out and civilize these heathens, bring them democracy and free markets, and then they'll stop wanting to be part of crazy mass movements that tell them to strap dynamite to themselves and blow up bus stops full of people.   This seems doomed to fail.  A lot of people in the Middle East clearly want what we're selling, but it doesn't take many suicide bombers to make that sort of thing break down.  

--John




From eugen at leitl.org  Wed Oct 27 03:11:59 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:11:59 +0200
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
Message-ID: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>

Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
space.

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.georgewbush.com/" on this
server.

http://www.anonymization.net/http://www.georgewbush.com works with no
problems, though.

Ha Ha Curious George.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 10:20:52 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:20:52 -0400
Subject: "Spam Kings" Released by O'Reilly
Message-ID: <p0611049fbda589688698@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 10:43:05 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:43:05 -0400
Subject: Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine
Message-ID: <p0611047dbda5769d1efb@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX>


Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

(Redirected from RDX)

Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine, also known as RDX, cyclonite, or hexogen,
is an explosive material widely used by the military.

There are many interpretations of its acronym including (but not limited
to) Royal Demolition eXplosive and Research Department Explosive. In fact
the latter is nearest to the mark. New explosives were given an
identification number preceded by the letters 'RD' indicating 'Research and
Development'. For some reason, this explosive was unable to be given a
number (the story goes that the department that issued the numbers had just
blown itself up - but this may be apocryphal). Instead the letter 'X' was
appended to indicate 'unknown' with the intention of adding the number
later. Although a number was issued, the term 'RDX' stuck.

In its pure synthesised state it is a white crystalline solid. As an
explosive it is usually used in mixtures with other explosives and
plasticizers or desensitizers. It is stable in storage and is considered
the most powerful and brisant of the military high explosives.

RDX forms the base for a number of common military explosives: Composition
A (wax-coated, granular explosive consisting of RDX and plasticizing wax),
composition A5 (mixed with 1.5% stearic acid), composition B (castable
mixtures of RDX and TNT), composition C (a plastic demolition explosive
consisting of RDX, other explosives, and plasticizers), composition D, HBX
(castable mixtures of RDX, TNT, powdered aluminium, and D-2 wax with
calcium chloride), H-6, Cyclotol and C-4.
[edit]

Properties
It is a colourless solid, of density 1.82 g/cm3. It is obtained by reacting
concentrated nitric acid on hexamine. It is a heterocycle and has the shape
of a ring. It starts to decompose at about 1700C and melts at 2040C. Its
structural formula is: hexahydro-1,3,5-trinitro-1,3,5-triazine or
(CH2-N-NO2)3

At room temperatures, it is a very stable product. It burns rather than
explodes, and only detonates with a detonator, being unaffected even by
small arms fire. It is less sensitive than pentaerythritol tetranitrate
(PETN). However, it is very sensitive when crystalized, below -40C.

Under normal conditions, RDX has a Figure of Insensitivity of 80.

The manufacture of RDX can easily pollute soil and groundwater.
[edit]

History

The discovery of RDX dates from the 1890s when a German (Hans Henning)
offered it as a medicine. Its explosive properties were not recognized
until 1920 (Herz?). In the 1920s RDX was produced by the direct nitration
of hexamine. It was only in 1940 that an efficient production method was
found, possibly at the McGill University Department of Chemistry
(Meissner?). It was widely used during WW II, often in explosive mixtures
with TNT such as Torpex (TNT (42%),RDX (40%) and aluminium (18%)). RDX was
used in one of the first plastic explosives.



Categories: Explosive chemicals | Heterocyclic bases | Nitroamines

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 10:56:42 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:56:42 -0400
Subject: Inadvertent Iraqi anarchocapitalism (Re: US Retardation of Free
   Markets (was Airport insanity))
In-Reply-To: <417F7B63.13654.82F781@localhost>
References: <417F7B63.13654.82F781@localhost>
Message-ID: <p061104acbda58f69ef00@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:41 AM -0700 10/27/04, James A. Donald wrote:
>What worked in Afghanistan was to find some local warlord we
>could live with, someone in no hurry to get his six pack of
>virgins, someone who might want to put sacks over the heads of
>the women of his town, but had no grandiose ambitions to stuff
>all the women of the world into bags, and then we cut a deal
>with him - we help him his slay his enemies, he helps us slay
>our enemies.
>
>Unfortunately the US plan to bring democracy to the middle
>east, and to preserve Iraq as a unitary state, keeps getting in
>the way of this sort of deal.

Except, apparently, in Iraqi Kurdistan:

<http://www.livejournal.com/users/giantlaser/58953.html>

Wherein Ryan Lackey's boss has left Baghdad for a nice hotel upstate...

:-)

Ryan, apparently remains downtown where all the fun is...

<http://www.livejournal.com/users/giantlaser/59447.html>

page down to see Ryan in all his former dry-suited Sealand glory...

I recommend Tyler <http://www.livejournal.com/users/giantlaser/> and
Jayme's <http://www.livejournal.com/users/slownewsday/> Iraq Livejournal
blogs as a wonderful example of inadvertant anarchocapitalism in action.

Inadvertent, because, of course, they *really* wanna be statists, liberal
ones in fact, in spite of evidence all around them to the contrary.

I still think they're heroes. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, *Ryan's* a
hero at this point.

Nick Berg lives.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 10:58:42 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:58:42 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F16AP3x3FQzKT00037ab2@hotmail.com>

John Kelsey wrote...

>The irony is that the neocons seemed to be trying to build up a kind of 
>mass movement mentality >in the US, which clearly has caught George Bush 
>and his top advisors--this wonderful notion that >we're going to go out and 
>civilize these heathens, bring them democracy and free markets, and >then 
>they'll stop wanting to be part of crazy mass movements that tell them to 
>strap dynamite to >themselves and blow up bus stops full of people.   This 
>seems doomed to fail.  A lot of people in >the Middle East clearly want 
>what we're selling, but it doesn't take many suicide bombers to make >that 
>sort of thing break down.

Let's remember that any regime is only temporary, no matter how 
fundamentalist. The main flaw in the whole "save the world" logic is that it 
assumes that some regime (Islamist, Communist or whatever) would actually be 
able to hold on to everybody in perpetuity, and I think history is now at 
the point where we have a good indication that this ain't the case.

In the case of China, Vietnam and, to some extent, the Islamists, I don't 
get the impression that a hatred of free markets was he underlying reason 
for the adoption of commusim (or whatever). Communism was merely a political 
pole that could be held on to so as to crystallize a movement whereby 
outside influences could be pushed out, and then the internal issues 
resolved. I would argue that the more we proclaim ourselves to be the 
evanglists for free markets throughout the world, and then ram our cocks up 
Abu Ghraib inmates asses, to the same extent what we have to offer looks 
tainted and foul. They need to puish us out so they need to reject free 
markets. They need to reject free markets so a new "pole" is created.

Mr Donald woul think that I argue against free markets, but instead what I 
am arguing against is methodology which retards free markets.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/




From jamesd at echeque.com  Wed Oct 27 15:12:17 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:12:17 -0700
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F40GzrLCCtgx8000447da@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <417FBAD1.18242.17ABD9E@localhost>

    --
James A. Donald:
> > The remaining communists have made some psychological
> > recovery - see for example Tyler Durden's peculiar version
> > of recent history, where in his universe the communists
> > actually won and are still winning,"

Tyler Durden
> Again, you live in a world that's evenly divided between
> black and white. Since I'm not white you figure I must be
> black.

Whatever you are, you have told us a story of the world where
the Koreans bravely repelled the evil capitalist American
attack, and enjoyed prosperity and progress thereby. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     EqHk0rek72pGIAIvZCiBmJDtn1yvQHDXnJ/0n/ks
     4jknM3llghisRUJE2X+8tiw6yn8yqEdesC8+Fy4HC




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 27 12:23:26 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:23:26 -0400
Subject: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
Message-ID: <BAY24-F40GzrLCCtgx8000447da@hotmail.com>

"The remaining communists have made some
psychological recovery - see for example Tyler Durden's
peculiar version of recent history, where in his universe the
communists actually won and are still winning,"

Again, you live in a world that's evenly divided between black and white. 
Since I'm not white you figure I must be black.

To reiterate a point your world view does not seem prepared to understand, 
communism (like Whabism these days) is a fleeting ideological counter-pole 
to the perceived evils of America and capitalism. To make an analogy, let's 
say someone on the street tried to force-feed you the most healthy food in 
the world at gun point. There's a good chance that, after that, you will not 
eat that healthy food any longer because you perceive it to be "evil". 
Likewise with Imperliasm and free markets: The more we try to shove it down 
the throats of the Islamic world the more they will reject both us as well 
as whatever we're trying to give 'em.

-TD

>From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd at echeque.com>
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: US Retardation of Free Markets (was Airport insanity)
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:41:39 -0700
>
>     --
>"R.A. Hettinga"
> > > This is actually the running fantasy in Marxism since the
> > > 1950's, when it turned out that that, instead of the
> > > "workers" eating the "bourgeoisie" by the firelight or some
> > > Glorious Revolution or another, would instead be come
> > > "bourgeoisie" themselves.
>
>John Kelsey
> > I think this bit gets at the heart of why the Islamic
> > fundamentalists are hard to deal with.  For most people I
> > know, some notion of peace and prosperity is the thing we
> > want from our governments. [...]
> >
> > The Islamic fundamentalists can't offer that.  [...] No
> > peace, not much prosperity, but a lot of capital-P Purpose.
> > A place in history, a part of the Jihad.  In this sense, it's
> > a lot like Marxism was, back when it had serious adherents;
> > it's a mass movement, like Eric Hoffer talks about.
>
>Mass movements of this kind require the promise of inevitable
>victory. When communism suffered one decisive, uncomplicated,
>unambiguous defeat, the dominos fell one after another all the
>way to Moscow.  The remaining communists have made some
>psychological recovery - see for example Tyler Durden's
>peculiar version of recent history, where in his universe the
>communists actually won and are still winning, and similarly
>the Islamists have made a considerable psychological recovery
>from Afghanistan, but the ideal of date with destiny tends to
>lose its appeal when you keep picking yourself off the dirt
>with a bloody nose.
>
>In Iraq we face a guerrila movement, and discover, yet again,
>that guerrilas can only be defeated by local forces - and the
>boys from Baghdad are not all that local.  This gives the
>Islamicists renewed hope.
>
>So what do you do, if, like Israel, you face terrorists
>embedded in a local population that supports thems sufficiently
>they can melt into the people?  Withdrawal did not work, for
>the terrorists keep sending car bombs and the like from their
>stronghold, as in Fallujah.
>
>What worked in Afghanistan was to find some local warlord we
>could live with, someone in no hurry to get his six pack of
>virgins, someone who might want to put sacks over the heads of
>the women of his town, but had no grandiose ambitions to stuff
>all the women of the world into bags, and then we cut a deal
>with him - we help him his slay his enemies, he helps us slay
>our enemies.
>
>Unfortunately the US plan to bring democracy to the middle
>east, and to preserve Iraq as a unitary state, keeps getting in
>the way of this sort of deal.
>
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald
>      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>      o32eoG4KhmccNjDBkOW9upEtn8Lka3zsooGJn8lY
>      4dMgCNOmt5z/S3km7vma/L6RECrRaVEmnhEZ4E2hb

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From jya at pipeline.com  Wed Oct 27 15:48:34 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:48:34 -0700
Subject: Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine
In-Reply-To: <p0611047dbda5769d1efb@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <E1CMtqt-0000bO-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Generously, the US government offers a complete set of
photos, drawings, process diagrams and descriptions for 
an RDX manufacturing plant. Library of Congress has 
the info in its Historic American Engineering Record.


http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/

Search on "RDX."

Now it could be disinfo to get a wild bunch to blow themselves 
up, but that happens pretty often with the USG plant too. See
the prolific explosion barriers and escape chutes throughout
the groundbreaking, heh, facility.




From iang at systemics.com  Wed Oct 27 08:01:08 2004
From: iang at systemics.com (Ian Grigg)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:01:08 +0100
Subject: MCI set to offer secure two-way messaging with strong encryption
Message-ID: <mailman.1061.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

http://www.gcn.com/vol1_no1/daily-updates/27748-1.html

MCI set to offer secure two-way messaging with strong encryption
10/27/04
By William Jackson,
GCN Staff

MCI Inc. will offer secure two-way messaging through its SkyTel
Communications subsidiary next month, encrypting wireless text
with the Advanced Encryption Algorithm.

"It was initially designed to meet the security needs of our
government customers," SkyTel marketing director Michael Barnes
said.

The company plans to get the device for its Secure 2Way service
certified for Federal Information Processing Standard 140-2,
which applies to cryptological devices used by the government.

The company also is promoting the service as compliant with the
Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act and expects
the health care and financial service industries to be early users.

Text messaging and paging has emerged as a reliable-sometimes
the only-means of communication during emergencies that disrupt
other media, such as wired and cellular telephone systems and
the Internet.

The Secure 2Way service uses the handheld ST900 2Way messaging
device from Sun Telecom Inc. of Norcross, Ga. Messages are
encrypted between the device and an encryption server at SkyTel's
secure network operations center.

Two levels of service are offered. Device-level security provides
device-to-device encryption when both users have the ST900. When
messages are received from nonsecure devices, traffic is encrypted
only between the operations center server and the ST900. With
end-to-end security, all traffic is blocked except that from
other secure ST900 devices so there is no unencrypted link on
any message.

The service uses 128-bit encryption keys with AES and the ANSI
X9.63 key management standard for symmetrical keys. The National
Security Agency has approved AES with 128-bit keys for use up to
secret classification. The key on each device is automatically
changed every 30 days or after 5,000 messages. The initial key
generation and exchange takes about eight minutes. Subsequent
key changes take two or three minutes.

Each device also is password protected with an eight-character
alphanumeric password.

"It was tough to build the AES encryption into the device,"
Barnes said. "It is not done through add-on hardware."

After buying the ST900, there's no extra charge for the device-
level service. End-to-end service incurs an additional fee.

) 1996-2004 Post-Newsweek Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cryptography Mailing List
Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo at metzdowd.com

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Wed Oct 27 07:08:54 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:08:54 +0200
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027090209.N26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
  <20041027090209.N26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041027140854.GJ1457@leitl.org>

On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 09:02:48AM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> > Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
> > space.
>
> Works from 204.238.179.0/24.

Of course it works. For you. It's US according to ip2location.com

204.238.179.1	US	UNITED STATES		MISSOURI	CLAYTON
MISSOURI FREENET

> Where are your coming in from?

Germany, and I'm still blocked.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From cypherpunks at kubieziel.de  Wed Oct 27 08:49:53 2004
From: cypherpunks at kubieziel.de (Jens Kubieziel)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:49:53 +0200
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>
Message-ID: <20041027154953.GC3912@kubieziel.de>

* Eugen Leitl schrieb am 2004-10-27 um 12:11 Uhr:
> Access to http://www.georgewbush.com/ is blocked but from US IP address
> space.

ACK, tried it from various german ISPs.

> Ha Ha Curious George.

Too much traffic from outside US?

--
Jens Kubieziel                                   http://www.kubieziel.de
FdI#305: Inter Personnel Synergies
Teamwork (Jonas Luster)

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Wed Oct 27 18:14:13 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:14:13 -0700
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com>

At 05:11 PM 10/27/2004, Dave Howe wrote:
>Tyler Durden wrote:
>>I'm sure there are several Cypherpunks who would be very quick to
>>describe Kerry as "needs killing".
>but presumably, lower down the list than shrub and his current advisors?

Oh, definitely much lower(even if he wins :-).
And if he loses, he ought to take Nader's place as the
"spoiled the election" guy, or at least Dukakis's.
They say we've got the best politicians money can buy,
but we sure should be able to buy better politicians than him.

Kerry was one of the worst runnable Democrats they could find.
Edwards was worse, and at the time I thought Gephardt was worse,
though Kerry's chickened out enough that he might not win,
which would be worse than Gephardt winning.
Kerry's a content-free stuffed shirt who no longer has the guts
that he had during his anti-war days, which is a big problem
in a campaign about emotions and values and Fearmongering,
and Edwards is all pretty face with no apparent soul either.

He's thoroughly failed to propose anything positive or concrete
(saying "Help is on the way" just doesn't cut it,
especially if you don't have anything to offer except not being Bush)
and he's let his "I'm a war hero" stance
get in the way of bashing Bush's incompetence in the war
and bashing Bush's fundamental dishonesty.
He's let Karl Rove dominate the emotional campaign,
and failed to take the high road aggressively
but tried to fight back against Rove on Rove's territory, which is futile.

The only time he really got anywhere emotionally was during
the parts of the debates where he would talk about how Bush's father did x/y/z
and Bush Jr. wasn't up to it, which left Bush squirming at his podium,
and he failed to catch on to the fact that Bush-o-nomics is
the same Voodoo Economics that Bush Sr. criticized when he was
running against Reagan.

Howard Dean would have been fun, but he was enough of a threat
to the establishment that they had to stop him
(especially the Democratic establishment,
because he was rebuilding an actual political party with
some grass roots in it as opposed to the current pure astroturf.)
And MoveOn seems to have mostly disappeared.




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 15:46:41 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:46:41 -0400
Subject: The Big Rig
Message-ID: <p06110446bda5d5b8e8ab@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=454&print=yes>

www.bostonmagazine.com Archives
The Big Rig
by Jake Halpern
 Copyright October 2004.

Could someone steal your vote on election day? Let us count the ways.

Lately it seems that virtually everyone I know -- Democrats, Republicans,
and Naderites alike -- is espousing outlandish theories about plots to
sway, postpone, or outright steal next month's election. "You just watch,"
a normally levelheaded friend of mine told me. "Three days before election
day they're going to bring Osama out of his subterranean cell and parade
him around like the Republican mascot."

 Of course, I realize that we are a nation of X-Files-watching, Art
Bell-listening, wigged-out paranoiacs, but it's really getting to me, and
this is why I decided to visit Ben Adida, who is a star Ph.D. student at
MIT in the field of cryptography and information security. Adida's area of
focus is voting machines and processes, and his specialty is breaking into
them. It's his job, as part of the Caltech-MIT/Voting Technology Project,
to determine the ways in which an election can be stolen right out of the
ballot box.

 When I meet Adida at his cubbyhole of an office on the MIT campus, he is
wearing jeans, a black T-shirt, and a pair of blue Puma sneakers. In short,
he has the look of your classic twentysomething hacker from the movies,
though he is quick to point out that the proper term for cyber-scoundrels
is "cracker."

 "Technically, a hacker is simply a clever programmer, whereas a cracker is
someone who actually breaks into systems," Adida explains. When it comes to
voting machines, he is emphatic. "Every machine can be cracked into," he
says.

 These days, most of the publicized concerns about voting machines involve
the direct-recording electric (DRE) models-generally, touch-screen systems
that resemble ATMs. The chief problem with these is that they leave no
paper trail, and this could create quite a ruckus when George W. Bush
and/or John Kerry demand recounts.

 If you haven't heard much about DREs in the Boston press, that's because
they are not currently approved for use in Massachusetts. This doesn't mean
you'll be using the punch cards that caused so much trouble in Florida;
that system has been banned in this state since 1997. Those creaky old
mechanical-lever machines once commonplace here, meanwhile, also have been
outlawed effective with next month's election.

 As a result, if you live in Massachusetts, you will likely be voting via
the optical scanner system, which requires you to indicate your choices by
filling in the bubbles on a sheet of paper, much like on the SAT. This
method will be used by 55 million people, or 32 percent of voters, in the
United States and is generally regarded as the most reliable.

 Time to breathe easy? Not exactly. According to Adida, "No one will be
able to crack into the [optical scanning] system via the Internet from
their basement and skew the results. However, the crackers can succeed if
they have hands-on access to the actual machine."

 Here is one possible scenario for how this could be done: Several weeks
before the election, a cracker might gain access to an optical scanning
device and reprogram it to favor a particular candidate. This is where
things get interesting. Because the list of candidates is often not entered
into the system until hours before an election, the crackers have no way of
knowing which candidate to pick -- A, B, or C. So they program the machine
to favor the candidate who gets the most votes between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m.,
then tell their supporters to vote first thing in the morning. "Usually,
when people hear this type of scenario for the first time they freak out,"
Adida says with a mischievous smile.

 There are simpler methods, too. For example, many optical scanning
machines use red lasers to scan, which means that they cannot read red ink.
Theoretically, someone could pass out red pens at a voting station in a
precinct known to vote a certain way, invalidating many of that precinct's
votes.

 As Adida continues to ramble about potential weaknesses in our voting
system, I can't help but feel that some amount of paranoia is justified.
According to the Caltech-MIT/Voting Technology Project, some 120,000 votes
by Massachusetts residents were not counted in the 2000 presidential
election. You have to wonder whether all of these invalidated ballots were
the result of simple errors. Perhaps this is why at least 12 members of
Congress have signed a letter asking the United Nations to monitor this
year's election. Perhaps it is time to get nervous.

 When I express this to Adida, he nods somberly. "It's my job to be
completely paranoid about elections," he tells me with a heavy sigh.
"Because the stakes in presidential elections are so high, the motivation
to do evil is also quite high, and so we have a plan for every possible
scenario."

 This is all good and fine, I tell him. Plan, plan, plan away. What I
wanted to know was whether any of this might really happen. What I wanted
was peace of mind. "I don't know of any optical scanning system being
cracked," Adida says finally. "But then again, it's conceivable that
someone could alter the results discreetly enough that no one would ever
know until it was too late."



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Wed Oct 27 10:39:16 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:39:16 +0200
Subject: [FoRK] Google buys Keyhole (fwd from
  andrew@ceruleansystems.com)
Message-ID: <20041027173916.GV1457@leitl.org>

----- Forwarded message from "J. Andrew Rogers" <andrew at ceruleansystems.com>
-----


From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 18:54:19 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:54:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
  <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <20041027205334.R26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Bill Stewart wrote:

> And MoveOn seems to have mostly disappeared.

So, I'm not the only one who's noticed this?  Obviously, Kerry was coming
a bit too close to an actual win...    :-(

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 17:55:12 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:55:12 -0400
Subject: Suprynowicz: Why isn't Kerry way ahead?
Message-ID: <p06110460bda5e8f56ae8@[66.149.49.5]>

>Bush and Kerry: Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Brie.

:-)

Cheers,
RAH
-------

<http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Oct-24-Sun-2004/opinion/25022791.html>


Sunday, October 24, 2004
Las Vegas Review-Journal

 Why isn't Kerry way ahead?

Most liberals think those stupid heartland voters just don't get it

 By VIN SUPRYNOWICZ
REVIEW-JOURNAL


 I was reminded why I usually don't bother with the canned PBS "Washington
Week" program when I accidentally tuned it in last Sunday. (OK, I found it
shamefully riveting -- like slowing down to inspect the carnage of a
traffic accident.)

 In an attempt to assemble an even-handed panel to discuss how George Bush
and John Kerry did in the debates, host Gwen Ifill and her tax-funded PBS
producers assembled four folks, one each from The New York Times, The
Washington Post, Time magazine and National Public Radio.

 Jim Bovard and Doug Bandow and Walter Williams and Bumper Hornberger were
all out on the tennis court? PBS can't afford to fly in a single token
conservative or libertarian from the Orange County Register, the Colorado
Springs Gazette or even the Detroit News?

 Are any of these people likely to discuss (or even grasp) what a Kerry
administration would do to the business environment in this country? Has
any of them (or Sen. Kerry, for that matter) ever run or even worked for a
small business?

 Ms. Ifill even fed her panel a line straight out of those hundreds of spam
e-mail letters we received -- generally beginning some hours before the
debates -- saying, "What I saw tonight was John Kerry looking presidential."

 Listen up, gang: This isn't 1960. No one was watching to see if the
"young, callow" Sen. John Kennedy -- er, Kerry -- could hold his own
against that master of political minutiae on the global stage, eight-year
veteran Vice President Richard Nixon.

 John Kerry was cast in the role (I use the verb advisedly) by the chiefs
of the military-industrial status quo (gotta discredit that Howard Dean; he
might actually cut off the Halliburton contracts) because he looks like
someone swiped the audio-animatronic Lincoln from Disneyland and shaved off
his beard. Of course he looks presidential.

 No one ever doubted John Kerry studied harder in prep school and is more
likely to speak in complete sentences than former longtime heavy drinker
George Bush. What people wonder about the guy is whether, if he's elected,
he wouldn't be likely to pull on a striped jersey and a black beret, light
up a Gauloise and promptly go sell us out to Jacques Chirac, who loaned and
sold billions worth of stuff to Saddam Hussein after Sept. 11, and to Kofi
Annan, who with his son is currently up to his ears in the crooked Iraq
oil-for-food cash diversion scandal.

 Ms. Ifill, who is about as likely to ever vote for George Bush as she is
to request major dental surgery without an anaesthetic, seemed genuinely
puzzled as she asked her panelists about the undecided voters, again and
again, "Who are these people?"

 After all, folks of Ms. Ifill's intellectual stature decided how to vote
in this election back in November 2000. What kind of unwashed
snake-handling Bible-thumpers could still be undecided? They still out at
the stock car races, or what?

 Two to 4 percent of the populace will indeed decide this election, which
looks close as to the popular vote. But frankly, I doubt the Electoral
College vote will look that close -- precisely because the Electoral
College was designed to protect small rural states from having our national
elections decided in a few corrupt urban cesspools.

 The socialists in California, Daleytown, New York and New England have
convinced themselves -- with the co-dependent aid of the thoroughly
left-leaning bicoastal press that I saw on display on PBS last Sunday --
that this election is a close call. But why then is John Kerry, who they're
bugling as having "won every debate by a landslide," still running behind?

 Remember, this is the bunch who couldn't imagine how their hero, Adlai
Stevenson, could possibly lose to that slow-talking dimwit, Dwight D.
Eisenhower -- twice. And they only beat the skulking Richard Nixon in 1960
by outright union-run vote fraud in West Virginia and Illinois.

 No, as the Electoral College votes are tallied Nov. 2, I think it may be
clearer that there are now (again?) two Americas: a "sophisticated" urban
kleptocracy made up of California and Hawaii, Daleyville and New York and
New England, still moaning that our tax rates lag behind those of
"progressive" Europe and Japan, and the rest, a huge red mass of pickups
with dogs in the back, shouting "Yahoo" and -- I'm not saying this doesn't
make me a bit uneasy, mind you -- anxious to go kick some serious A-rab ass.

 The reason these leftist spinmeisters can't seem to parse the thoughts of
the "undecided voters" is that they're asking the wrong question. These
voters are not trying to make a decision between George Bush and John Kerry.

 About two-thirds of this "final 4 percent" are trying to decide whether to
go with their lower-tax, less-government principles and vote for
Libertarian Michael Badnarik, or whether John Kerry and his
"internationalist" socialist pals are so truly dangerous that these final
holdouts should hold their noses and vote for simpleminded warmonger George
Bush and his hideous Patriot Act.

 The remaining one-third of this "final 4 percent" are trying to decide
whether to vote their pacifist principles and cast a ballot for Ralph Nader
or the Greens -- or whether George Bush and his hideous Patriot Act are so
dangerous that they should hold their noses and vote for John Kerry -- who,
after all, voted for the war in Iraq, and for the hideous Patriot Act.

 Evidence of how large this unreported phenomenon has become arises now in
the form of Web sites such as www.votepair.org, which seeks to "pair up"
Kerry voters in states that are not in play in this election, with
third-party voters in battleground states. Goal? The Kerryites in New York
and California (Massachusetts? Illinois?) offer to vote for Nader, Cobb or
Badnarik (in states that Kerry will win, anyway), thus assuring these
third-party candidates of the same nationwide totals, "freeing up"
third-party voters in the swing states to cast a vote for John Kerry.

 I'm not saying such technically illegal schemes will work, mind you --
just that they recognize the real conundrum the truly undecided voter now
faces.

 No, in the end, George Bush is likely to win because Americans prefer "the
devil they know"; because Bush at least talks about leaving us in control
of some part of our lives; because Americans rarely elect U.S. senators;
because Americans rarely elect "progressive liberals" (the preferred modern
euphemism for socialists); because Americans never elect anyone who admits
he's going to raise our taxes (where's the Walter Mondale Presidential
Library?); and because Americans have never changed presidents in the
middle of a war.

 What's that? It's "not a real war"? Howard Dean could have made that case,
as do Mr. Badnarik and Mr. Nader. But Kerry voted for the war in Iraq ...
and for the hideous Patriot Act, while he was at it. Bush and Kerry:
Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Brie.

 None of this is to deny George Bush is inarticulate and has done little or
nothing to downsize government. But does anyone think John Kerry would do
better at that task, simply because he's a better public speaker? If that
were the case, wouldn't Jesse Jackson already be president?

 George Bush is likely to win a substantial Electoral College victory in
part because Americans figure he comes by his simple-minded (but still, in
the end, right and decent) principles of honestly and sincerely, whereas
John Kerry's only known principle, his sole anchor of conscience, was his
belief that interventionist, "unwinnable" foreign wars such as Vietnam were
bad. He has now abandoned that anchor and principle in vowing to continue
the war in Iraq, because the focus groups told him so.

 And George Bush is also likely to win because John Kerry really is dangerous.

 Remember, the Clinton-Gore ticket won election only because they claimed
to be "new Democrats" from conservative small Southern states who would
downsize government and "end welfare as we know it."

 When Al Gore showed his true colors four years ago -- especially on gun
control and socialized medicine -- he went down in flames, even in the
South.

 Bush is actually likely to run more strongly this time -- especially as
Iraq is a wash, what with Kerry absurdly promising to win it with his
friends, the French.

 Why? Americans have no intention of turning tail and running from Iraq,
and thus handing Islam a huge recruiting victory in the Arab heartland --
which is precisely what we all know John Kerry really wants to do, despite
his absurd contention that Jacques Chirac and Kofi Annan will pull on their
hip boots and wade in to save our bacon.

 But more importantly, John Kerry served as lieutenant governor of "Have a
Gun, Go to Jail" Massachusetts. Hello? I know retired servicemen who get
from New Hampshire to New York by driving around Massachusetts so they
won't be jailed for possession of a self-defense weapon -- they don't want
to pay the governor of that state $5 in taxes on a dinner and gas.

 John Kerry would hand over one-seventh of the American economy to Hillary
Clinton and her socialized medicine scheme. He would embrace the crippling
Kyoto Treaty (he blamed George Bush, during the debates, for "distancing
our allies" by refusing to sign) and put the Derek Shearer-Roberta
Achtenburg gang back in charge of environmental and workplace regulation.
(You think American factory jobs are fleeing overseas now? Elect this guy
and it would be, "Last person out of the Rust Belt, please turn out the
light.")

 John Harris of the Post told Ms. Ifill that John Kerry has never led in
the polls because "he has a problem connecting personally with the voters."
Well, that's true. But couldn't it also be because they can clearly see
he's lying about all that "job creation" -- that in fact he can't wait to
turn over the country to a bunch of regulation-happy socialist academics
out of Harvard, Columbia and the People's Republic of Santa Monica?

 Nah. Voters out in the heartland couldn't be concerned about that. Them
tobacco-chewing cowboys is too dumb.

 Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal.
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"Every election is a sort of advance auction of stolen goods." -- H.L. Mencken




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 18:57:19 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:57:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>  <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Steve Furlong wrote:

> Missouri and Illinois also have a good record for registering children,
> the dead, and other people who would normally not vote.

In Missouri you'll find that dead people are quite real - hell, we elected
a dead guy recently :-)

As for *kids*, we recently had an 11 year old bride (legal here with
parental consent) who was on the news for being the youngest *divorcee* at
12!  Why not give her the vote?  She can't do any worse than the rest of
these rednecks.

Yours, From Sunny Wonderful Missouri...

--
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Wed Oct 27 18:21:21 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 27 Oct 2004 21:21:21 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 	
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 10:23, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> Just for fun, I bet the reason is economics. No need to have yew furriners
> hammerin' our http ports, 'cuz ya cain't vote, here, anyway.

Not that the French or other dickless wonders would attempt to conduct a
DDoS on GWB's site, or anything.


> Okay. Except in Florida and Ohio.

Missouri and Illinois also have a good record for registering children,
the dead, and other people who would normally not vote. Why should
furriners be denied the chance to participate in these strongholds of
Democracy?




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 19:33:12 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:33:12 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>  
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>   <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>
  <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041027213213.U26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> At 8:57 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> >Yours, From Sunny Wonderful Missouri...
>
> A great place to be *from*.

You didn't finish it :-)

"And a great place to *leave*!"


> Go Sox.

Rah! Rah!


> Cheers,
> RAH
> BA Philosophy, Mizzou, '81(okay, '84...)

You graduated after all that beer???

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 18:52:47 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:52:47 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>   
  <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <p06110400bda5fe6bb5dc@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 6:14 PM -0700 10/27/04, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Kerry's a content-free stuffed shirt

*I* coulda told you that. I'm from Massachusetts.

Here's what I wrote about the War Hero (2.0) on another list:

>A guy just like, say, John Kerry, back-door preppie turned
>social-climber turned military opportunist medal-fabricator turned
>communist (Viet Cong) turned dishonorably discharged gigolo ($300
>million) turned Democratic ward-heelling coatholder turned Dukakis
>snot-wipe turned Kennedy snot-wipe turned car-living beer-bummer
>turned "Liveshot" camera-hog turned gigolo (just south of a billion)
>turned crocodile-teared POW-sop turned communist (Sandinista) turned
>do-nothing Senator, whose accent went from Yiddish to Brahamin to
>Southie Irish to middle-america received pronounciation to
>(apparently last week) redneck "get me a huntin' license", all of
>which, just like his opinion on any issue you could name, turned on
>a dime to give you nine cents change, depending on who he was
>talking
>to at the time.

In the immortal words of Mr. Parker, Kerry's a pussy who's so full of
shit he might as well be an asshole.

In a lot of ways, he's just Dukakis, stretched out on the Marxist
rack, only his voice got lower.

>who no longer has the guts
>that he had during his anti-war days

Sorry. Even then, he was a pussy. He had Karl Marx and Uncle Ho
shoved so far into both lower orifices he had sticky fluid coming out
all of his *upper* ones...

In the meantime, Bill, I um, feel your pain. He's *my* senator. And
the *liberal* one, too.


Cheers,
RAH

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=ARaU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From kline at tao.thought.org  Wed Oct 27 22:00:57 2004
From: kline at tao.thought.org (Gary Kline)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:00:57 -0700
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Re: Death Notice: Matt Heckaman
In-Reply-To: <20041027230736.K26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027230736.K26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041028050057.GB86369@thought.org>

On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 11:11:20PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> 
> [Posted to a variety of places, as Matt was a prolific coder who
> maintained many ports and worked on literally dozens of projects]
> 
> -- 
> Yours,
> 
> J.A. Terranson
> sysadmin at mfn.org
> 0xBD4A95BF
> 
> 	"An ill wind is stalking
> 	while evil stars whir
> 	and all the gold apples
> 	go bad to the core"
> 
> 	S. Plath, Temper of Time
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> http://obit.pumphreyfuneralhome.com/obit_display.cgi?id=161939&listing=Current
> 
> Matthew Heckaman Ferraro
> Born in Mishawaka, IN on Jan. 4, 1982
> Departed on Oct. 20, 2004 and resided in Gaithersburg, MD.
> 
> Memorial Service: 	Oct. 30, 2004
> Cemetery: 	Arlington National Cemetery Columbarium
> Please click on the links above for locations, times, maps, and
> directions.
> 
> 
> Matthew Heckaman Ferraro (age 22)
> Matthew of Gaithersburg, MD, formerly of Montreal Canada,
> passed away on Wednesday, October 20, 2004. He was the beloved
> husband of Stacie Jo Ferraro; loving son of Claire Ferraro
> (husband, Eddy) and Marshall Heckaman (wife, Sharon) of Indiana;
> loving brother of Andria, David and Allan; stepbrother of Cynthia
> Ferraro (Daniel Aston) son-in-law of Mike and Marjorie Bland of
> Maryland and their daughters, Resha and Stephanie; grandson of
> Adrien and Cecile Blanchette of Montreal, Canada and John and
> Ruth Heckaman of Indiana; grandson-in-law of Anastacia Quitania.
> He was predeceased by a stepbrother Jonathan Ferraro. Also survived
> by his aunts and uncles, Helene Blanchette (Denis Pare) and Pierre
> Blanchette of Montreal, Canada, Nicole Blanchette (Brian Smith) of
> London, Ont., Dorothy (Doc) Anderson of Illinois and by all his
> extended family and friends in Montreal, Indiana, Maryland and
> elsewhere. Matthew was an active duty PV2 of the United States
> Army. A memorial service will be held at PUMPHREY.S COLONIAL FUNERAL
> HOME, 300 West Montgomery Avenue (Rte 28 just off I-270, exit 6-A)
> Rockville, MD on Saturday, October 30, 2004 at 1 PM. Inurnment service
> with Military Honors will be held at Arlington National Cemetery
> Columbarium on Thursday, November 4, 2004 at 10 AM.
> 

	thanks for this post; it honors matt.  we're all the poorer
	for his death.  we are all the richer for his having lived.
	... .


	-g

-- 
   Gary Kline     kline at thought.org   www.thought.org     Public service Unix

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 20:16:34 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:16:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

Interesting: although it triggered for the wrong reason, it did trigger
appropriately - I do not accept generic rdns.  You want to be seen as
legit, you need to have fdns==rdns on your mx.

Yes, I run extra-tight here, since (a) there's less than 700 users, (b)
they are all free accounts, and therefore have to live at *my* tolerance
level (it is good to be king :-), and (c) I don't believe email is all
that important, and I'd rather toss real mail in error than allow crap in
error.

Sigh...

Thanks for the heads up though :-)

//Alif



On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:43:58 -0400
> From: R.A. Hettinga <rah at shipwright.com>
> To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
> Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
>
>
>
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
> From: MAILER-DAEMON at ibuc.com (Mail Delivery System)
> Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
> To: rah at shipwright.com
>
> Content-Description: Notification
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> This is the Postfix program at host bullae.ibuc.com.
>
> I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
> below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>
>
> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> delete your own text from the message returned below.
>
> 			The Postfix program
>
> <measl at mfn.org>: host mx1.mfn.org[204.238.179.8] said: 554
>     <user-119ac85.biz.mindspring.com[66.149.49.5]>: Client host rejected: We do
>     not accept mail from .biz (in reply to RCPT TO command)
>
> Content-Description: Delivery error report
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; bullae.ibuc.com
> Arrival-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:42:02 -0400 (EDT)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; measl at mfn.org
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.0.0
> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host mx1.mfn.org[204.238.179.8] said: 554
>     <user-119ac85.biz.mindspring.com[66.149.49.5]>: Client host rejected: We do
>     not accept mail from .biz (in reply to RCPT TO command)
>
>
> <snip...>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
>

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 20:26:20 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:26:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> Sorry for the open channel, folks.
>
> At 10:16 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> >Thanks for the heads up though :-)
>
> Tell ya what. You send me (directly, I think. :-)) pointers to how to bash
> RDNS out of earthlink's hands and into mine, and I'll buy you a beer.

If that's your dns, I'll whitelist it.  But I can also send you the
requested info ;-)


> I know, I know. You drink downstream beer... :-).

Know what?  I'm a pussy when it comes to beer!  One 40oz and I'm ready for
the hospital!  Hard drugs are another story though <smirk>...


> Cheers,
> RAH


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 19:28:37 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:28:37 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>   
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>  <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft> 
  <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 8:57 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Yours, From Sunny Wonderful Missouri...

A great place to be *from*.

Go Sox.

Cheers,
RAH
BA Philosophy, Mizzou, '81(okay, '84...)


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WjrGsiJfqdh2OBlFN/73P0qQ
=yosl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 20:29:42 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:29:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> > Sorry for the open channel, folks.

Yes - let me restate that for the record: My personal apologies.

RAH: Try it now.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 19:41:00 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:41:00 -0400
Subject: Interventionism
In-Reply-To: <20041025015831.GB8273@arion.soze.net>
References: <11324503.1098471567437.JavaMail.root@ernie.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
   <20041025015831.GB8273@arion.soze.net>
Message-ID: <p06110408bda60cad0d3c@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:58 AM +0000 10/25/04, Justin wrote:
>I also think it's a mistake to say that the U.S. has been so successful
>because it's a democratic republic.  Wasn't it the spirit of those who
>rebelled against British rule, rather than the particular form of
>government they established, that was critical in establishing the U.S.
>as a progress-oriented nation?

Um.... No.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 19:41:53 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:41:53 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027213213.U26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>   
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>  <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft> 
  <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027213213.U26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p06110409bda60cd61701@[66.149.49.5]>

At 9:33 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>You graduated after all that beer???

Beer *and* philosophy. I must be a genius, or something.

:-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From MAILER-DAEMON at ibuc.com  Wed Oct 27 19:42:05 2004
From: MAILER-DAEMON at ibuc.com (Mail Delivery System)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <mailman.1062.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 19:43:58 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:43:58 -0400
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
Message-ID: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 19:50:28 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:50:28 -0400
Subject: Europe opts for biometric passports
Message-ID: <p0611040cbda60ecc8c72@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.com.com/2102-1012_3-5429679.html?tag=st.util.print>

CNET News

 Europe opts for biometric pasports
 By Lars Pasveer
 http://news.com.com/Europe+opts+for+biometric+pasports/2100-1012_3-5429679.html


 Story last modified October 27, 2004, 5:56 PM PDT


Ministers for European Union member states agreed on Tuesday to adopt
biometric passports.

The first biometric passports are set to arrive in 18 months and initially
will record the facial characteristics of the bearer.

 In three years, European travelers will also have to provide a fingerprint
for the passport. The facial and fingerprint data will be stored on an
embedded chip, along with a digital copy of the bearer's photo.

 The decision, made at a meeting of interior ministers in Luxembourg, is
not yet final. Austria, Finland and the Netherlands have voiced minor
concerns about the proposal, but they will probably not turn out to be
insurmountable obstacles.

 The European push for biometrics is heavily influenced by a United States
policy change for passports for people from "visa waiver" countries after
the Sept. 11 attacks. U.S. plans to introduce a biometric passport
requirement by this fall for these countries were widely seen as
unrealistic. However, by Oct. 26 next year, all visitors from these
countries will have to provide a machine-readable passport with biometric
data.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 20:51:45 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:51:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041027225122.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>
> > > Sorry for the open channel, folks.
>
> Yes - let me restate that for the record: My personal apologies.
>
> RAH: Try it now.

I saw the bounce, and found the line I missed.  Try it one more time :-)



-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 20:55:20 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:55:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Turtles all the way down... (was  Re: Attention Alif: RDNS
  is  a bitch...)
In-Reply-To: <p0611041abda61d2aea77@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <20041028035012.C718F8C3129@bullae.ibuc.com> 
  <p0611041abda61d2aea77@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041027225401.G26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

To all of you who have been forced to witness this shameful exhibition of
open channel abuse - my apologies.  But it's over now, so we now return
you to your regularly scheduled, um,.... Hrmmmm... Nothings ever "regular"
around here....

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:09:56 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:09:56 -0400
Subject: Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
Message-ID: <p06110413bda613539c1a@[66.149.49.5]>

I'll see you one fizzled October surprise, and raise you...

Are we having fun, now?

Cheers,
RAH
--------

<http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20041027-101153-4822r>

The Washington Times
 www.washingtontimes.com

Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published October 27, 2004
Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and
related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003
U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
     John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international
technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian
troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the
high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south
of Baghdad.
     "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole
series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all
evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis.
The others were transportation units."
     Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloguing the tons of conventional
arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained
reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European
intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi
weapons collaboration.
     Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from
other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon,
and possibly to Iran, he said.
     The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons,
including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX is still being investigated, Mr.
Shaw said.
     The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and
nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
     Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
     The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10
from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
     Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story
was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who
accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
     Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw
said.
     "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of
[special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And
Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got
there."
     The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was
defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi
military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders
around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said
in a statement yesterday.
     A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th
Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May
27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past
by the IAEA.
     The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of
explosives from the facility after April 6.
     "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens
of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat
divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd
Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
     The statement also said that the material may have been removed from
the site by Saddam's regime.
     According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives
at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that
the seals were not broken.
     It is not known if the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The
U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20,
2003.
     A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to
Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special
forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct
counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western
intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
     The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov,
the former Russian intelligence chief, could not convince Saddam to give in
to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
     A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of
conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the
U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign
supplier of weaponry, he said.
     However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to
have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program.
"The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
     The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the
country.
     Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians
worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out
special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related
technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms
depots.
     The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and
possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
     Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons
and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt"
in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency
operations in Iraq.
     The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by
March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies
to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
     Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with
arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations,
he said.
     "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian
border," the defense official said.
     Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military
units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in
the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and
chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
     The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al
Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms
holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
     Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence
disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written
by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military
industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
     The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU
military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys
for the weapons removal, the official said.
     Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7
metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons
of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or
pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
     The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military
"plastic" high explosive.
     Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what
happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of
the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened
to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
     
     
     
     
     


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From measl at mfn.org  Wed Oct 27 21:11:20 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:11:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Death Notice: Matt Heckaman
Message-ID: <20041027230736.K26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>

[Posted to a variety of places, as Matt was a prolific coder who
maintained many ports and worked on literally dozens of projects]

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://obit.pumphreyfuneralhome.com/obit_display.cgi?id=161939&listing=Current

Matthew Heckaman Ferraro
Born in Mishawaka, IN on Jan. 4, 1982
Departed on Oct. 20, 2004 and resided in Gaithersburg, MD.

Memorial Service: 	Oct. 30, 2004
Cemetery: 	Arlington National Cemetery Columbarium
Please click on the links above for locations, times, maps, and
directions.


Matthew Heckaman Ferraro (age 22)
Matthew of Gaithersburg, MD, formerly of Montreal Canada,
passed away on Wednesday, October 20, 2004. He was the beloved
husband of Stacie Jo Ferraro; loving son of Claire Ferraro
(husband, Eddy) and Marshall Heckaman (wife, Sharon) of Indiana;
loving brother of Andria, David and Allan; stepbrother of Cynthia
Ferraro (Daniel Aston) son-in-law of Mike and Marjorie Bland of
Maryland and their daughters, Resha and Stephanie; grandson of
Adrien and Cecile Blanchette of Montreal, Canada and John and
Ruth Heckaman of Indiana; grandson-in-law of Anastacia Quitania.
He was predeceased by a stepbrother Jonathan Ferraro. Also survived
by his aunts and uncles, Helene Blanchette (Denis Pare) and Pierre
Blanchette of Montreal, Canada, Nicole Blanchette (Brian Smith) of
London, Ont., Dorothy (Doc) Anderson of Illinois and by all his
extended family and friends in Montreal, Indiana, Maryland and
elsewhere. Matthew was an active duty PV2 of the United States
Army. A memorial service will be held at PUMPHREY.S COLONIAL FUNERAL
HOME, 300 West Montgomery Avenue (Rte 28 just off I-270, exit 6-A)
Rockville, MD on Saturday, October 30, 2004 at 1 PM. Inurnment service
with Military Honors will be held at Arlington National Cemetery
Columbarium on Thursday, November 4, 2004 at 10 AM.




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:21:13 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:21:13 -0400
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>

Sorry for the open channel, folks.

At 10:16 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Thanks for the heads up though :-)

Tell ya what. You send me (directly, I think. :-)) pointers to how to bash
RDNS out of earthlink's hands and into mine, and I'll buy you a beer.

I know, I know. You drink downstream beer... :-).

Cheers,
RAH
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:50:01 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:50:01 -0400
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
  <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p06110419bda61cddd877@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:29 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>RAH: Try it now.

'mkay...

This work?

Cheers,
RAH
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:52:12 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:52:12 -0400
Subject: Turtles all the way down... (was  Re: Attention Alif: RDNS is a
   bitch...)
In-Reply-To: <20041028035012.C718F8C3129@bullae.ibuc.com>
References: <20041028035012.C718F8C3129@bullae.ibuc.com>
Message-ID: <p0611041abda61d2aea77@[66.149.49.5]>

At 11:50 PM -0400 10/27/04, Mail Delivery System wrote:
><measl at mfn.org>: host mx1.mfn.org[204.238.179.8] said: 554
>    <user-119ac85.biz.mindspring.com[66.149.49.5]>: Client host rejected:
>We do
>    not accept mail from .biz (in reply to RCPT TO command)

Nope not yet...

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:52:34 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:52:34 -0400
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <20041027225122.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027222448.O26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
  <20041027222908.F26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <20041027225122.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p0611041bbda61d7afd63@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:51 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>I saw the bounce, and found the line I missed.  Try it one more time :-)

Uno mas...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Wed Oct 27 20:58:25 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:58:25 -0400
Subject: Turtles all the way down... (was  Re: Attention Alif: RDNS 
    is  a bitch...)
In-Reply-To: <20041027225401.G26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041028035012.C718F8C3129@bullae.ibuc.com>   
  <p0611041abda61d2aea77@[66.149.49.5]>
  <20041027225401.G26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p06110420bda61ed24ddc@[66.149.49.5]>

At 10:55 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Nothings ever "regular"
>around here....

Er, regular means nothing around here?

Thanks everyone.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Oct 28 01:02:37 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:02:37 -0700
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <p06110409bda60cd61701@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>  <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft> 
  <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027213213.U26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110409bda60cd61701@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028010135.03c01c80@pop.idiom.com>

At 07:41 PM 10/27/2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>At 9:33 PM -0500 10/27/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> >You graduated after all that beer???
>Beer *and* philosophy. I must be a genius, or something.

<a href="that Monty Python drunken philosophers song...">

>:-).




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 17:09:37 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:09:37 +0100
Subject: Doubt
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F234vKhBxT18j00023b2f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <418038C1.7050400@gmx.co.uk>

Tyler Durden wrote:
>> Yet what of your blindness, which doubts *everything* the current
>> administration does?
> 1. Abu Ghraib
> 2. WMD in Iraq
> 3. Patriot Act
> 4. Countless ties between this administration and the major contract 
> winners in Iraq
> Hum. Seems a decent amount of doubt is called for.
For that matter - a healthy dose of doubt is called "the scientific 
method" - its how you actually find things out.

Mind you, that would be "reality based" which is shunned by the current 
administration - presumably in favour of "fantasy based"




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 17:11:05 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:11:05 +0100
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk>

Tyler Durden wrote:
> I'm sure there are several Cypherpunks  who would be very quick to 
> describe Kerry as "needs killing".
but presumably, lower down the list than shrub and his current advisors?




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Wed Oct 27 17:13:06 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:13:06 +0100
Subject: E-Vote Vendors Hand Over Software
In-Reply-To: <p06110402bda4bda7c45c@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p06110402bda4bda7c45c@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <41803992.2070204@gmx.co.uk>

R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>  The stored software will serve as a comparison tool for election officials
> should they need to determine whether anyone tampered with programs
> installed on voting equipment.
IIRC during the last set, the manufacturers themselves updated 
freshly-minted software from their ftp site onto the machines mere hours 
before the polls opened.....




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Oct 28 01:14:03 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:14:03 -0700
Subject: Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
In-Reply-To: <p06110413bda613539c1a@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p06110413bda613539c1a@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028010416.03c4f8a8@pop.idiom.com>

At 08:09 PM 10/27/2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>I'll see you one fizzled October surprise, and raise you...

The Bush Administration succeeded in delaying it until
late enough in October not to ruin the election,
and in the Commie-Colored states it's probably mostly
playing as "that Eeeevillll Saddam had lots of Ammo,
aren't we glad that Fearless Leader took him out!"



>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

There's the Liberal Media at work :-)

>reliable information

         The Bush Administration keeps using phrases like
"reliable information" and "credible sources".
I don't think it means what _they_ think it means.

>on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that 
>have
>detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.

Russians collaborating with Iraqis?  I thought the Iraqis
were supposed to be on the side of Moslem Terrorists,
like the Chechens.  I guess propaganda has no more reason to be
self-consistent than Middle Eastern political behaviour, though.

>      Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from
>other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon,
>and possibly to Iran, he said.

Saddam giving weapons to the Iranians?  Fat chance.
Syria's not real likely either, though less improbable,
and Lebanon's mostly under Syrian control but has enough
people there who are anti-Israel that it's possible.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Oct 28 01:35:11 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:35:11 -0700
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <20041025220907.GA18059@arion.soze.net>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <bf8463370410251133127c52b4@mail.gmail.com> 
  <p061104f9bda302358c52@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041025203248.GM1457@leitl.org> 
  <20041025220907.GA18059@arion.soze.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028013259.03bf05b8@pop.idiom.com>

At 03:09 PM 10/25/2004, Justin wrote:

>On 2004-10-25T22:32:48+0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 03:20:28PM -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> >
> > > *Nobody* was a counterbalance to Tim, me or anyone else. Simple fact, no
> > > matter how much he pissed on my shoes, or anyone else's.
> >
> > What's he up to these days? It seems he got tired of of USENET, too
>
>Maybe an assassin got past his home defense network?

No, if you google for timcmay and got.net, you'll find him.
(He changed from tcmay to timcmay a couple of years ago
after getting too much spam or something,
and there's spam-harvester-distraction in his posted domain name.)
He's posted on ba.food in the last week, among other places.


----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Thu Oct 28 01:37:17 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 01:37:17 -0700
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <p06110400bda5fe6bb5dc@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com> 
  <p06110400bda5fe6bb5dc@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028013523.03c0b408@pop.idiom.com>

At 06:52 PM 10/27/2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> > .. > ... Kerry ...
>In the meantime, Bill, I um, feel your pain.
>He's *my* senator.  And the *liberal* one, too.

Hey, we've got DiFi here, who's unfortunately been
more effective at getting things she wants.
But it's Barbara Boxer who's up for election this round.


Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 05:10:10 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:10:10 -0400
Subject: Donald's Job Description
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028013523.03c0b408@pop.idiom.com>
References: <BAY24-F15MyQlmLFQG10001dd32@hotmail.com> 
  <41803919.8090408@gmx.co.uk> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041027175344.03bffb18@pop.idiom.com> 
  <p06110400bda5fe6bb5dc@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041028013523.03c0b408@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <p06110426bda691e14609@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:37 AM -0700 10/28/04, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 06:52 PM 10/27/2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>> > .. > ... Kerry ...
>>In the meantime, Bill, I um, feel your pain.
>>He's *my* senator.  And the *liberal* one, too.
>
>Hey, we've got DiFi here,

"*liberal*" as opposed to Kennedy, of course. :-).

"Ever see a Senator swim? You will, in Massachusetts..."

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 05:22:51 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:22:51 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028010135.03c01c80@pop.idiom.com>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]> <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft> 
  <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110405bda60960473c@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027213213.U26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <p06110409bda60cd61701@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041028010135.03c01c80@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <p06110427bda69272680c@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:02 AM -0700 10/28/04, Bill Stewart wrote:
><a href="that Monty Python drunken philosophers song...">
>
>>:-).

There is NO.... Rule Six.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rsw at jfet.org  Thu Oct 28 06:40:39 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:40:39 -0500
Subject: Attention Alif: RDNS is a bitch...
In-Reply-To: <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <p0611040abda60d402fa5@[66.149.49.5]> <20041027221320.T26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> <p06110417bda6157c1db1@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <20041028134039.GA3366@positron.jfet.org>

"R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com> wrote:
> Tell ya what. You send me (directly, I think. :-)) pointers to how to bash
> RDNS out of earthlink's hands and into mine, and I'll buy you a beer.

Earthlink gobbles balls like a twelve-year-old Thai hooker.

Surprisingly, SBC was willing to delegate RDNS of my /29 to me.  How's
_that_ for unexpected?

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 06:04:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:04:35 -0400
Subject: U.K. Borough Council Selects PGP Universal
Message-ID: <p0611042bbda69ea3439e@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://news.scotsman.com/print.cfm?id=3683738&referringtemplate=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Escotsman%2Ecom%2Flatest%2Ecfm&referringquerystring=id%3D3683738>
print
  
The Scotsman

Thu 28 Oct 2004

8:46am (UK)
Pgp Corporation Announces That U.K. Borough Council has Selected Pgp Universal

"PA"


 Business Editors/Technology Writers

 PALO ALTO, Calif. - (BUSINESS WIRE) - Oct. 28, 2004 - Bournemouth will use
award-winning encryption solution to secure email communications and help
comply with regulations

 PGP Corporation, a global leader in enterprise encryption

 solutions, today announced that the Bournemouth Borough Council in Dorset,
U.K., has selected PGP(R) Universal to secure electronic communications
containing personal information between the Council and its residents,
merchants, and other government agencies.

 "A great deal of the information held by the Council is private, including
personal and health information, data about schools and students, and tax
and voting records," said Fred Baert, Bournemouth's Information
Communication Technology (ICT) Security Officer. "The 1998 Data Protection
Act and the Freedom of Information Act both require the Council to ensure
the security of electronic communications, and the Council's own security
policy states that confidential information must be encrypted. PGP
Corporation is the market leader in encryption, so choosing a PGP solution
seemed like the right thing to do."

 "Regulatory mandates and societal concerns continue to pressure all types
of organizations to secure confidential information in electronic
communications," said Phillip Dunkelberger, president and CEO for PGP
Corporation. "We are pleased the Bournemouth Borough Council chose PGP
Universal to help comply with requirements for encrypting private data
transmitted via email."

 About PGP Corporation

 Recognized worldwide as a leader in enterprise encryption technology, PGP
Corporation develops, markets, and supports products used by more than
30,000 enterprises, businesses, and governments worldwide, including 90% of
the Fortune 100 and 75% of the Forbes International 100. PGP products are
also used by thousands of individuals and cryptography experts to secure
proprietary and confidential information.

 During the past ten years, PGP(R) technology has earned a global
reputation for standards-based, trusted security products. PGP Corporation
is the only commercial security vendor to publish source code for peer
review. The unique PGP encryption product suite includes PGP Universal --
an automatic, self-managing, network-based solution for enterprises -- as
well as desktop, mobile, and FTP/batch transfer solutions. Contact PGP
Corporation at www.pgp.com or 650-319-9000.

 About Bournemouth Borough Council

 The Bournemouth Borough Council is the government body that sets policies
for the 164,000 residents of the Borough of Bournemouth in Dorset. The
Council is the largest provider of services for children and adults in home
or residential care and landlord to more than 15,000 people. It is
responsible for maintaining local roads/highways, caring for the
environment, and supporting the town's schools as well as sports, leisure,
and entertainment facilities. For more information, visit
http://www.bournemouth.gov.uk.

 PGP is a registered trademark and the PGP logo is a trademark of PGP
Corporation. Product and brand names used in the document may be trademarks
or registered trademarks of their respective owners. Any such trademarks or
registered trademarks are the sole property of their respective owners.

 - 30 - BRM/se*

 CONTACT: Jump Start Communications, LLC for PGP Corporation Lori Curtis,
970-887-0044 (U.S.)

 +44 0845 331 2059 (U.K.)

 lori at jumpstartcom.com


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 06:15:39 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:15:39 -0400
Subject: Poll Finds Most Americans Have Not Prepared for a Terror Attack
Message-ID: <p06110431bda6a0dcc8e8@[66.149.49.5]>

See .sig, below...

:-)

Cheers,
RAH


<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/28/national/28homepoll.html?th=&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times
October 28, 2004

Poll Finds Most Americans Have Not Prepared for a Terror Attack
By CALVIN SIMS

mericans are closely divided on whether they think the United States is
prepared to deal with another terrorist attack, but the overwhelming
majority have done nothing to prepare for such an attack themselves,
according to a recent New York Times poll.

 The poll found that most Americans are not worried that they or a family
member will become a victim of terrorism, with the majority of the
respondents saying they do nothing different even when the government
raises the terror-alert level.

The survey was conducted for use in a documentary produced by New York
Times Television on the status of security in the United States.

 While domestic security has been a major issue in the presidential
campaign with Republicans and Democrats warning that another terrorist
attack is inevitable, the Times poll suggests that for most Americans the
issue is not a preoccupation.

 "I guess the reason I'm not terribly worried about it is probably the
location I'm in," Angela Loston, 24, a writer from Dallas, said in a phone
interview after the survey. "Even though I'm in a major city, I am in the
state of Texas, so I don't really see something happening here."

David Ropeik, who teaches risk communications at the Harvard School of
Public Health, said the survey results reflect a well-established,
intuitive human response to risk known as optimism bias, in which
individuals disproportionately believe that they will not be victims of a
peril even though they widely acknowledge that it will occur.

"We see the same phenomenon with smoking, obesity and natural disasters. If
you don't think it will happen to you, then you won't take any
precautions," Mr. Ropeik said. "When it comes to terrorism, there is some
truth here. If an attack happens, it's unlikely that you or I will be a
victim. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be prepared."

In the survey, 46 percent of the respondents said they did not think the
United States was prepared for a terrorist attack, while 43 percent said
the country was prepared. To questions of personal readiness, 61 percent
responded that they did not have a stockpile of food and water at home in
preparation for a terrorist attack. More than 70 percent said they had not
selected a family meeting place in case of an evacuation due to terrorism,
nor had they established a plan to communicate with relatives.

Asked why her family had not designated a gathering place or plan to stay
in touch, Gloria Peters, a retiree from San Pablo, Calif., said, "We really
haven't discussed that, but we should." She added, "The roads are going to
be so packed jammed that it's going to be insane."

The survey found that women were more likely to regard both the country and
their local communities as ill prepared to deal with another attack. Women
are also more apt to express concern that someone in their family could
become a victim of terrorism: 46 percent of women said they were very or
somewhat concerned compared with 26 percent of men.

The Times poll, of 554 adults, was conducted nationwide by telephone Oct.
12 to 13 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus four
percentage points.

Citing the federal government's handling of the current flu vaccine
shortage, Eugene Ladisky, a retired engineer from New York, said: "I get
the impression that were there a terrorist attack, our government would let
us fend for ourselves."

Copyrigh
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"When I was your age we didn't have Tim May! We had to be paranoid
on our own! And we were grateful!" --Alan Olsen




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 06:34:27 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:34:27 -0400
Subject: Russia Hid Saddam's WMDs
Message-ID: <p0611044cbda6a4fcc093@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=10111>

Front Page Magazine

Russia Hid Saddam's WMDs
By Ion Mihai Pacepa
Washington Times | October 2, 2003


On March 20, Russian President Vladimir Putin denounced the U.S.-led
"aggression" against Iraq as "unwarranted" and "unjustifiable." Three days
later, Pravda said that an anonymous Russian "military expert" was
predicting that the United States would fabricate finding Iraqi weapons of
mass destruction. Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov immediately started
plying the idea abroad, and it has taken hold around the world ever since.

 As a former Romanian spy chief who used to take orders from the Soviet
KGB, it is perfectly obvious to me that Russia is behind the evanescence of
Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. After all, Russia helped
Saddam get his hands on them in the first place. The Soviet Union and all
its bloc states always had a standard operating procedure for deep sixing
weapons of mass destruction - in Romanian it was codenamed "Sarindar,
meaning "emergency exit." I implemented it in Libya. It was for ridding
Third World despots of all trace of their chemical weapons if the Western
imperialists ever got near them. We wanted to make sure they would never be
traced back to us, and we also wanted to frustrate the West by not giving
them anything they could make propaganda with.

All chemical weapons were to be immediately burned or buried deep at sea.
Technological documentation, however, would be preserved in microfiche
buried in waterproof containers for future reconstruction. Chemical
weapons, especially those produced in Third World countries, which lack
sophisticated production facilities, often do not retain lethal properties
after a few months on the shelf and are routinely dumped anyway. And all
chemical weapons plants had a civilian cover making detection difficult,
regardless of the circumstances.

The plan included an elaborate propaganda routine. Anyone accusing Moammar
Gadhafi of possessing chemical weapons would be ridiculed. Lies, all lies!
Come to Libya and see! Our Western left-wing organizations, like the World
Peace Council, existed for sole purpose of spreading the propaganda we gave
them. These very same groups bray the exact same themes to this day. We
always relied on their expertise at organizing large street demonstrations
in Western Europe over America's "war-mongering" whenever we wanted to
distract world attention from the crimes of the vicious regimes we
sponsored.

Iraq, in my view, had its own "Sarindar" plan in effect direct from Moscow.
It certainly had one in the past. Nicolae Ceausescu told me so, and he
heard it from Leonid Brezhnev. KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and later, Gen.
Yevgeny Primakov, told me so, too. In the late 1970s, Gen. Primakov ran
Saddam's weapons programs. After that, as you may recall, he was promoted
to head of the Soviet foreign intelligence service in 1990, to Russia's
minister of foreign affairs in 1996, and in 1998, to prime minister. What
you may not know is that Primakov hates Israel and has always championed
Arab radicalism. He was a personal friend of Saddam's and has repeatedly
visited Baghdad after 1991, quietly helping Saddam play his game of
hide-and-seek.

 The Soviet bloc not only sold Saddam its WMDs, but it showed them how to
make them "disappear." Russia is still at it. Primakov was in Baghdad from
December until a couple of days before the war, along with a team of
Russian military experts led by two of Russia's topnotch "retired"generals:
Vladislav Achalov, a former deputy defense minister, and Igor Maltsev, a
former air defense chief of staff. They were all there receiving honorary
medals from the Iraqi defense minister. They clearly were not there to give
Saddam military advice for the upcoming war-Saddam's Katyusha launchers
were of World War II vintage, and his T-72 tanks, BMP-1 fighting vehicles
and MiG fighter planes were all obviously useless against America. "I did
not fly to Baghdad to drink coffee," was what Gen. Achalov told the media
afterward. They were there orchestrating Iraq's "Sarindar" plan.

 The U.S. military in fact, has already found the only thing that would
have been allowed to survive under the classic Soviet "Sarindar" plan to
liquidate weapons arsenals in the event of defeat in war - the
technological documents showing how to reproduce weapons stocks in just a
few weeks.

 Such a plan has undoubtedly been in place since August 1995 - when
Saddam's son-in-law, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who ran Iraq's nuclear, chemical
and biological programs for 10 years, defected to Jordan. That August,
UNSCOM and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors searched a
chicken farm owned by Kamel's family and found more than one hundred metal
trunks and boxes containing documentation dealing with all categories of
weapons, including nuclear. Caught red-handed, Iraq at last admitted to its
"extensive biological warfare program, including weaponization," issued a
"Full, Final and Complete Disclosure Report" and turned over documents
about the nerve agent VX and nuclear weapons.

 Saddam then lured Gen. Kamel back, pretending to pardon his defection.
Three days later, Kamel and over 40 relatives, including women and
children, were murdered, in what the official Iraqi press described as a
"spontaneous administration of tribal justice." After sending that message
to his cowed, miserable people, Saddam then made a show of cooperation with
UN inspection, since Kamel had just compromised all his programs, anyway.
In November 1995, he issued a second "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure"
as to his supposedly non-existent missile programs. That very same month,
Jordan intercepted a large shipment of high-grade missile components
destined for Iraq. UNSCOM soon fished similar missile components out of the
Tigris River, again refuting Saddam's spluttering denials. In June 1996,
Saddam slammed the door shut to UNSCOM's inspection of any "concealment
mechanisms." On Aug. 5, 1998, halted cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA
completely, and they withdrew on Dec. 16, 1998. Saddam had another four
years to develop and hide his weapons of mass destruction without any
annoying, prying eyes. U.N. Security Council resolutions 1115, (June 21,
1997), 1137 (Nov. 12, 1997), and 1194 (Sept. 9, 1998) were issued
condemning Iraq-ineffectual words that had no effect. In 2002, under the
pressure of a huge U.S. military buildup by a new U.S. administration,
Saddam made yet another "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure," which was
found to contain "false statements" and to constitute another "material
breach" of U.N. and IAEA inspection and of paragraphs eight to 13 of
resolution 687 (1991).

 It was just a few days after this last "Disclosure," after a decade of
intervening with the U.N. and the rest of the world on Iraq's behalf, that
Gen. Primakov and his team of military experts landed in Baghdad - even
though, with 200,000 U.S. troops at the border, war was imminent, and
Moscow could no longer save Saddam Hussein. Gen. Primakov was undoubtedly
cleaning up the loose ends of the "Sarindar" plan and assuring Saddam that
Moscow would rebuild his weapons of mass destruction after the storm
subsided for a good price.

 Mr. Putin likes to take shots at America and wants to reassert Russia in
world affairs. Why would he not take advantage of this opportunity? As
minister of foreign affairs and prime minister, Gen. Primakov has authored
the "multipolarity" strategy of counterbalancing American leadership by
elevating Russia to great-power status in Eurasia. Between Feb. 9-12, Mr.
Putin visited Germany and France to propose a three-power tactical
alignment against the United States to advocate further inspections rather
than war. On Feb. 21, the Russian Duma appealed to the German and French
parliaments to join them on March 4-7 in Baghdad, for "preventing U.S.
military aggression against Iraq." Crowds of European leftists, steeped for
generations in left-wing propaganda straight out of Moscow, continue to
find the line appealing.

 Mr. Putin's tactics have worked. The United States won a brilliant
military victory, demolishing a dictatorship without destroying the
country, but it has begun losing the peace. While American troops unveiled
the mass graves of Saddam's victims, anti-American forces in Western Europe
and elsewhere, spewed out vitriolic attacks, accusing Washington of greed
for oil and not of really caring about weapons of mass destruction, or
exaggerating their risks, as if weapons of mass destruction were really
nothing very much to worry about after all.

 It is worth remembering that Andrei Sakharov, the father of the Soviet
hydrogen bomb, chose to live in a Soviet gulag instead of continuing to
develop the power of death. "I wanted to alert the world," Sakharov
explained in 1968, "to the grave perils threatening the human race
thermonuclear extinction, ecological catastrophe, famine." Even Igor
Kurchatov, the KGB academician who headed the Soviet nuclear program from
1943 until his death in 1960, expressed deep qualms of conscience about
helping to create weapons of mass destruction. "The rate of growth of
atomic explosives is such," he warned in an article written together with
several other Soviet nuclear scientists not long before he died, "that in
just a few years the stockpile will be large enough to create conditions
under which the existence of life on earth will be impossible."

 The Cold War was fought over the reluctance to use weapons of mass
destruction, yet now this logic is something only senior citizens seem to
recall. Today, even lunatic regimes like that in North Korea not only
possess weapons of mass destruction, but openly offer to sell them to
anyone with cash, including terrorists and their state sponsors. Is anyone
paying any attention? Being inured to proliferation, however, does not
reduce its danger. On the contrary, it increases it.



-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rsw at jfet.org  Thu Oct 28 09:30:40 2004
From: rsw at jfet.org (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:30:40 -0500
Subject: camophone
Message-ID: <20041028163040.GA8947@positron.jfet.org>

http://www.camophone.com/

Caller ID spoofing for the masses.  Give them the target phone number,
your phone number, and the number you want to appear on the caller ID.

One wonders (1) how long this will last and (2) just how eager they'll
be to bend over to the first TLA who comes along.

-- 
Riad S. Wahby
rsw at jfet.org




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Thu Oct 28 10:38:05 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 13:38:05 -0400
Subject: Turtles all the way down... (was  Re: Attention Alif: RDNS
  is  	a bitch...)
In-Reply-To: <20041027225401.G26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041028035012.C718F8C3129@bullae.ibuc.com> 	
  <p0611041abda61d2aea77@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <20041027225401.G26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <1098985085.2719.9.camel@daft>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 23:55, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> Nothings ever "regular"
> around here....

On the contrary, there's a constant stream of shit on this list.
_Someone_ must be pretty regular.




From sfurlong at acmenet.net  Thu Oct 28 11:28:43 2004
From: sfurlong at acmenet.net (Steve Furlong)
Date: 28 Oct 2004 14:28:43 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 	
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>  <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft> 
   <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <1098988123.2719.12.camel@daft>

On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 21:57, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> As for *kids*, we recently had an 11 year old bride (legal here with
> parental consent) who was on the news for being the youngest *divorcee* at
> 12!  Why not give her the vote?  She can't do any worse than the rest of
> these rednecks.

After the divorce, was she still related to her ex? Or am I thinking of
Mississippi?




From measl at mfn.org  Thu Oct 28 13:11:53 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:11:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <1098988123.2719.12.camel@daft>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org> 
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>   <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>
   <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet>  <1098988123.2719.12.camel@daft>
Message-ID: <20041028151112.N37875@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Steve Furlong wrote:

> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 21:57, J.A. Terranson wrote:
> > As for *kids*, we recently had an 11 year old bride (legal here with
> > parental consent) who was on the news for being the youngest *divorcee* at
> > 12!  Why not give her the vote?  She can't do any worse than the rest of
> > these rednecks.
>
> After the divorce, was she still related to her ex? Or am I thinking of
> Mississippi?

Missippi is often indistinguishable from Missouri :-/

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 12:27:04 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 15:27:04 -0400
Subject: MCI set to offer secure two-way messaging with strong
  encryption
Message-ID: <p06110474bda6f87851f1@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz  Wed Oct 27 20:08:57 2004
From: pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:08:57 +1300
Subject: Cyclotrimethylene trinitramine
In-Reply-To: <E1CMtqt-0000bO-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <E1CN0en-0002ab-00@medusa01>

John Young <jya at pipeline.com> writes:

>Generously, the US government offers a complete set of photos, 
>drawings, process diagrams and descriptions for an RDX manufacturing 
>plant. Library of Congress has the info in its Historic American 
>Engineering Record.

It's not all too hard to make from hexamine (although quite inefficient,
the bulk manufacture isn't done that way) for someone with access to a 
bit of chemical equipment.  I couldn't believe the fuss they're making 
over this, it's just another HE, although more brisant than most.  The 
story is about as interesting as "Stick of dynamite discovered in 
Baghdad parking lot", the media is making it sound like someone's 
absconded with a live nuke.  I guess they couldn't spend the necessary
30 seconds or so it'd take to look it up somewhere and see what was
involved.

Peter.




From sattva at pgpru.com  Thu Oct 28 02:34:07 2004
From: sattva at pgpru.com (Vlad "SATtva" Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:34:07 +0700
Subject: Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20041028010416.03c4f8a8@pop.idiom.com>
Message-ID: <NPEFJKANDJHEFKJNINIMCEHJCLAA.sattva@pgpru.com>

> >on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence
> services that
> >have
> >detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
>
> Russians collaborating with Iraqis?  I thought the Iraqis
> were supposed to be on the side of Moslem Terrorists,
> like the Chechens.  I guess propaganda has no more reason to be
> self-consistent than Middle Eastern political behaviour, though.

Iraq under Saddam had always been a sort of temporal country in the Muslim
world. Since late '70s (just since CIA's protege Saddam ran out of control)
Soviet Union collaborated with Iraq in the arms sphere, but as with most
governments of the region, used this "partnership" and the region itself as
a playground, not unlike the US.

After the collapse of the USSR, Russian weapons collaboration with Iraq
gained pure business nature. (Yet it still was an attempt to annoy the US.
Probably exactly this aspect was the main driver of all this business thing;
after all, Iraq hadn't been the most significant weapons buyer even on the
Middle East.) And now Saddam is gone, but not the Iraqi's ~4 bln dollars
debt on weapon supplies which the new administration is refusing to return
(that is wholly logical from the US side - they have nothing in common with
this debt :-).

Saddam was a tyrant, but he was the only one who could control the borders
and not allow all this Al Quaeda scum to flood Iraq. That was predicted when
it was evident that the "liberation" operation is imminent, that is what we
see right now. So, did Russia collaborated with Iraq? Yes, it did. But not
with Al Quaeda terrorists.




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 13:57:42 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:57:42 -0400
Subject: Palladiated Handheld Security Spec
Message-ID: <p0611049fbda70d7b3eb4@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.eweek.com/print_article/0,1761,a=138221,00.asp>

EWeek




'Palladium' Echoes in New Handheld Security Spec


October 27, 2004
 By   Mark Hachman


 Intel, IBM and NTT DoCoMo have released a specification to create a
"trusted mobile platform," which appears to take the foundation of
Microsoft's own trust initiative, "Palladium," into the mobile space.

 The three companies placed the Trusted Mobile Platform specification on
the Internet for public review. An executive at Santa Clara, Calif.-based
Intel said the company hopes to have TMP products on the market by 2005,
although the timing will be heavily dependent on OEM participation.

 ADVERTISEMENT

The problem is that, as of now, the TMP group does not include a
participating handset OEM, an operating-system manufacturer, a
radio-component manufacturer, an application provider or a manufacturer of
the trusted platform module (TPM) components that will be used to secure
the platform.

 The lack of these elements led one analyst to state that the triumvirate
will need many more players to achieve the critical mass it will need to
move forward. But things move quickly in the mobile space, other analysts
said, and even an aggressive 2005 launch date might not be out of reach.

 The goal is to provide a means of "trust" inside a mobile platform,
similar to the "Palladium" initiative Microsoft Corp. began floating in
2002 and later referred to as the Next Generation Secure Computing Base.


NGSCB is supposed to be a feature of Longhorn, Microsoft's next-generation
OS. In May, Microsoft said it would tweak the Palladium architecture to
make it simpler for developers to produce compatible applications.

 Like Palladium, the TMP initiative is designed to secure mobile commerce
and protect the system from viruses and/or worms designed to modify the
internal code.

 Intel's contributions are as a chip provider, while DoCoMo contributed the
"key usage scenarios" that guided the research into creating the
specification, said Jeff Krisa, director of marketing for Intel's cellular
handheld group.

 Next Page: A lack of support from key vendors.
 Intel has already placed some elements of the TMP within its "Bulverde"
wireless applications processor, known as the PXA27X family, Krisa said.

 "The level of digital rights management will be implemented on the
software level within the middleware, and will procedurally determine what
you can pass forward and save on the handset as well," Krisa said, adding
that it will be managed by IBM's WebSphere team.

 IBM contributed software "expertise," June Namioka, a spokeswoman for
IBM's Asia-Pacific headquarters in Tokyo, said in an interview. Intel's
Krisa said work focused on some of the higher-end software protocols used
by the technology.

 One analyst called IBM's involvement significant. "Enterprise wireless
apps are more of a concern for the average IT manager than for the average
consumer," said Julie Ask, a wireless analyst with Jupitermedia Corp.'s
JupiterResearch division. "The risk isn't so much in bringing down my
phone, it's hacking into my system or making sure the workers on the
factory floor can't talk to one another, which could be disastrous."

 However, the initiative currently lacks the support of a number of other
key vendors. For his part, Krisa said the 2005 launch date is "highly
dependent on other members, middleware ecosystem and OS vendors." A
representative from Symbian, a U.K.-based provider of embedded OSes, did
not return a call for comment.

 Although both the hardware and software specifications were released
Wednesday, the software document indicates that it was authored June 23.

 Analyst reaction was mixed. "Without having details, I see this '05 thing
as questionable," said Neil Strother, senior analyst with In-Stat/MDR in
Phoenix. "Even if they move quickly, I'm skeptical."

 If you want to build trust in the trust model, "you have to get the
banking guys on board," he said.

 Cliff Raskind, director of wireless enterprise strategies at Boston-based
Strategy Analytics, said his first impression was that the triumvirate
didn't have the clout that a trio of Microsoft, Intel and Cisco Systems
Inc. might have in trying to establish standards for the Wi-Fi space.
Wireless, by contrast, encompasses too many players. "You need buy-in
across the board," he said.

Click here to learn what vendors were plugging at this week's CTIA Wireless
show.

On the other hand, the life cycle for phones has shrunk to between six and
eight months, forcing handset makers and carriers alike to implement new
technology quickly or risk losing market share, analysts said. In a recent
executive study, JupiterResearch found that 30 percent of the respondents
cited poor device security as their chief barriers to adopting new wireless
devices. Thirty-one percent cited poor network security.

 "Things do move quickly in the mobile space, and Intel is very serious in
growing its communications business and putting in the marketing dollars to
do so," JupiterResearch's Ask said.


"When you announce with a carrier, that's good," Ask added. "I'm not sure
if it's going to turn into a North American thing, though, versus a
Japanese one." Asian carriers are usually on the leading edge of OS and
technology advances, she said. Other analysts pointed out that NTT DoCoMo
is a major player only in the GSM space, and a European and American
carrier would need to sign on.

 None of the analysts reached for comment said they had been briefed on the
TMP technology, which they found unusual.

 The TMP initiative creates a "boundary of trust" around some of the
central components within the handheld system. The system initially boots
from a trusted OS stored on a secure ROM, and through the applications
processor that's checked against the Trusted Platform Module, or TPM. Data
stored on removable devices such as flash cards must be securely encrypted,
and the specification also lists the SIM card, used to identify the phone
to the carrier, as a trusted device that can authenticate the user.

 Intel's Krisa said the Trusted Computing Group, which oversees the TPM
specifications, will have to come up with a derivative designed for mobile
handsets to minimize the platform's power consumption.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Thu Oct 28 14:03:52 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:03:52 -0400
Subject: the simian unelected is blocking the world
In-Reply-To: <20041028151112.N37875@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <20041027101159.GB1457@leitl.org>   
  <p06110464bda55f7fb3f4@[66.149.49.5]>   <1098926481.2719.3.camel@daft>
     <20041027205451.J26123@ubzr.zsa.bet> 
  <1098988123.2719.12.camel@daft>  <20041028151112.N37875@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <p061104a1bda70f1fa12b@[66.149.49.5]>

At 3:11 PM -0500 10/28/04, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Missippi is often indistinguishable from Missouri :-/

Only if you went to the St. Louis public schools and can't spell...

;-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 28 21:17:02 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:17:02 -0700
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
Message-ID: <4181C43E.2F55FF6F@cdc.gov>

At 10:07 PM 10/24/04 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
 If the only way
>to kill barbarians is to kill barbarians in their bed before they
>kill you in yours, to pave over nation-states that support them,
>starting with the easiest first, it can't happen fast enough, as far
>as I'm concerned, and I'll gladly "vote" my expropriated tax-dollars
>for the purpose of draining the swamp that is the Middle East.

Is this geodesic neo-conservativism?   Where can I start
bearer-document goose-stepping?

Whatever happened to leaving the barbarians to kill themselves,
and getting the fuck out of family spats?




From mv at cdc.gov  Thu Oct 28 21:19:01 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:19:01 -0700
Subject: 2000 curies of Ci
Message-ID: <4181C4B5.472AAED0@cdc.gov>

t 10:21 PM 10/24/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:

>This is idiotic.  You're claiming that the definition of "terrorist" is

>dependent not on the act, but on why the act was committed.  So if I
was
>to go out tomorrow and spread 2000 curies of Ci into the local subway
>system "As payback for Ruby Ridge", this would not be an act of
terrorism?

Just for correctness' sake, there is no element named "Ci", its an
abbrev
for Curies, ie the activity of a gram of Ra.

Perhaps you meant Cs-137.  Halliburton loses mCi of Am-241 etc
monthly.




From dahonig at cox.net  Thu Oct 28 23:21:33 2004
From: dahonig at cox.net (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:21:33 -0700
Subject: "Scan design called portal for hackers"
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20041028232133.00867a30@pop.west.cox.net>


EETimes 25 Oct 04 has an article about how 
the testing structures on ICs makes them 
vulnerable to attacks.  The basic idea is
that to test a chip, you need to see inside
it; this can also reveal crypto details 
(e.g., keys) which compromise the chip.  

This has been known to us with an interest
in both crypto and IC design for some time,
but its nice to see it exposed in the public
lit.  There are methods that avoid this,
such as BIST, but they are less popular.





=================================================
36 Laurelwood Dr
Irvine CA 92620-1299

VOX: (714) 544-9727 (home) mnemonic: P1G JIG WRAP

ICBM: -117.7621, 33.7275
PGP PUBLIC KEY: by arrangement

Send plain ASCII text not HTML lest ye be misquoted.  Really.

------

"Don't 'sir' me, young man, you have no idea who you're dealing with"
Tommy Lee Jones, MIB



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From isn at c4i.org  Fri Oct 29 01:31:38 2004
From: isn at c4i.org (InfoSec News)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:31:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [ISN] Secret Service busts online organized crime ring
Message-ID: <mailman.1063.1575948428.62801.testlist@lists.cpunks.org>

http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,97017,00.html

By Dan Verton
OCTOBER 28, 2004
COMPUTERWORLD

In what it called an "Information Age undercover investigation," the
U.S. Secret Service today announced that it has arrested 28 people
from eight U.S. states and six countries allegedly involved in a
global organized cybercrime ring.

Charges filed against the suspects include identity theft, computer
fraud, credit card fraud and conspiracy.

The investigation, code-named Operation Firewall, resulted in what the
Secret Service described as a significant disruption of organized
criminal activity online that was targeting the financial
infrastructure of the U.S. The suspects are alleged to have
collectively trafficked in at least 1.7 million stolen credit card
numbers.

Financial institutions have estimated their losses associated with the
suspects targeted by the investigation to be more than $4.3 million.

"Led by the Secret Service Newark Field Office, investigators from
nearly 30 domestic and foreign Secret Service offices and their global
law enforcement counterparts have prevented potentially hundreds of
millions of dollars in loss to the financial and hi-tech communities,"
Secret Service Director W. Ralph Basham said in a statement. "These
suspects targeted the personal and financial information of ordinary
citizens, as well as the confidential and proprietary information of
companies engaged in e-commerce."

Operation Firewall began in July 2003 and quickly evolved into a
transnational investigation of global credit card fraud and online
identity theft. The underground criminal groups have been identified
as Shadowcrew, Carderplanet and Darkprofits. The organizations
operated Web sites used to traffic counterfeit credit cards and false
identification information and documents. The groups allegedly used
the sites to share information on how to commit fraud and sold the
stolen information and the tools needed to commit such crimes.

International law enforcement organizations that took part in the
investigation and arrests included the U.K.'s National Hi-Tech Crimes
Unit, the Vancouver Police Department's Financial Crimes Section, the
Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Europol.

Officials in Bulgaria, Belarus, Poland, Sweden, the Netherlands and
Ukraine also were involved.



_________________________________________
Open Source Vulnerability Database (OSVDB) Everything is Vulnerable -
http://www.osvdb.org/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 29 04:06:19 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:06:19 -0400
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <4181C43E.2F55FF6F@cdc.gov>
References: <4181C43E.2F55FF6F@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <p061104f0bda7cc9b0ac1@[66.149.49.5]>

For the most part, I'm going to answer this (mostly) seriously, though I
expect it wasn't asked in the same fashion.

At 9:17 PM -0700 10/28/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>Is this geodesic neo-conservativism?   Where can I start
>bearer-document goose-stepping?

Impedance mismatch. You're using a (now) cryptocommie codeword for Jewery
("neo-conservative") with Nazi imagery. Everybody knows that Jews are
communists, right? ;-). Except, of course, to a cryptocommie, *everyone*'s
a fascist. Must be like eskimos and 19 different names for snow, or
something.

It has always amused me that libertarians and anarcho-capitalists insist on
using the language of the left to describe the things they don't like. One
of the reasons that the right in this country has been so successful has
been their development of a useful analytic apparatus, and corresponding
language, over the past 50 years, certainly more so than the left, which is
nothing but marxism, dilluted or otherwise.


>Whatever happened to leaving the barbarians to kill themselves,
>and getting the fuck out of family spats?

When they can't seem to kill themselves fast enough, it's time to help them
along a bit, especially when they start killing *you*? :-).

At the moment force-monopoly is, by definition of monopoly, a hierarchical
market. Hence the "dance with the girl that brung ya" bit. They have
already *stolen* my money, they might as well be doing something with it
that goes back to their existential principle ("a bandit who doesn't move"
as Mancur Olsen says), i.e. the use of force itself instead of bread and
circuses, and furthermore in killing people (and their friends, and the
camel they rode in on) who now have a demonstrated ability to kill me,
personally.


Sure, there's something to be said for the notion that terrorism is some
form of geodesic warfare, but, notice, when you take out certain
nation-states, terrorism subsides. Or, at least, it returns to that
nation-state, where terrorists can be killed faster. Better there than
here, certainly.

So, I would say that geodesic war consists of (bearer settled :-)) cash
auctions for force. That exists in certain, um, informal markets, but
transaction costs aren't low enough for general use yet. I think we're
we're going to get there, though.

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 29 06:26:39 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:26:39 -0400
Subject: [ISN] Secret Service busts online organized crime ring
Message-ID: <p0611043abda7f55a9831@[66.149.49.5]>

--- begin forwarded text



From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 07:20:56 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:20:56 -0400
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
Message-ID: <BAY24-F23yg35sQtgTI0002e6eb@hotmail.com>

Sounds good, but there's a little flaw in the logic:

>At 10:07 PM 10/24/04 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>  If the only way
> >to kill barbarians is to kill barbarians in their bed before they
> >kill you in yours, to pave over nation-states that support them,
> >starting with the easiest first, it can't happen fast enough, as far
> >as I'm concerned, and I'll gladly "vote" my expropriated tax-dollars
> >for the purpose of draining the swamp that is the Middle East.

We're not reducing the quantity of government, just consolidating under a 
single growing Borg-like government, namely the US. I consider one giant 
government a far more dangerous situation that lots of little ones.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net  Fri Oct 29 10:39:34 2004
From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 100,000 Deaths in Iraq
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F140gxapzhad20004fdca@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200410291739.i9THdZVW014004@artifact.psychedelic.net>

Tyler Durden writes:

> Well make 'em free even if we have to kill every last one of them, right Mr 
> Donald?

Most AmeriKKKans are too stupid to know that when their Poodle Press talks 
about airstrikes against "insurgent safehouses", they really mean bombing 
civilian neighborhoods to scare the resistance out of the people.

I wonder how many skyscrapers you'd have to fly planes into in order to 
kill 100,000 civilians.  THe crimes of Bush et al greatly exceed the 
crimes of the "terrorists."

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Fri Oct 29 10:54:38 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:54:38 -0700
Subject: 2000 curies of Ci
In-Reply-To: <4181C4B5.472AAED0@cdc.gov>
References: <4181C4B5.472AAED0@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041029104830.043e40c0@pop.idiom.com>

At 09:19 PM 10/28/2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>Perhaps you meant Cs-137.  Halliburton loses mCi of Am-241 etc monthly.

MilliCuries?  That's a bit surprising,
though losing microCuries of it would be more likely.
An average home smoke detector has 1-5 microcuries,
and industrial detectors go up to 15, according to
one or two articles on the web which may be outdated.
So you're saying they lose hundreds to thousands of
smoke detectors a month?



----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Fri Oct 29 10:26:33 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:26:33 -0400
Subject: 100,000 Deaths in Iraq
Message-ID: <BAY24-F140gxapzhad20004fdca@hotmail.com>

A large percentage of these are women and children, and dying directly due 
to American bombing.
Well make 'em free even if we have to kill every last one of them, right Mr 
Donald?

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=RelatedStories&pitem=AP%2DIraq+Death+Toll&rev=20041029&pub_tag=APONLINE&relatedTo=942972&from=relatedstory&rsNum=4

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx




From roy at rant-central.com  Fri Oct 29 11:45:41 2004
From: roy at rant-central.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:45:41 -0400
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
    real  money)
In-Reply-To: <41828356.2030102@gmx.co.uk>
References: <20041024133530.2912F1BF97F@absinthe.tinho.net> 
  <1098744061.21969.3.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
  <41828356.2030102@gmx.co.uk>
Message-ID: <41828FD5.3070909@rant-central.com>

Dave Howe wrote:

> Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
>
>> I'd thought it was so Microsoft could offer an emulation-based migration
>> path to all the apps that would be broken by Longhorn.  MS has since
>> backed off on the new filesystem proposal that would have been the
>> biggest source of breakage (if rumors of a single-rooted, more *nix-like
>> filesystem turned out to be true).
>
> To be fair to MS, that is already here - you can "mount" NFS volumes 
> as subfolders in 2K and above, just like unix. however, MS don't 
> really seem to want to crow about that - just in case someone points 
> out unix did this literally decades ago....

I was thinking more of the rumor that Longhorn's filesystem would start 
at '/', removing the 'X:' and the concept of separate drives (like unix 
has done for decades :) ).  When I first saw this discussed, the 
consensus was that it would break any application that expected to use 
'X:\PATH'-style filenames or chdrive() (or whatever that lib call to 
change the default drive is).  Someone suggested that MS might ship an 
emulator to handle translation (at some non-trivial cost in performance, 
else no one would have an incentive to refactor) until the vendors could 
rewrite their apps to use the new native filesystem.

-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is roy at rant-central.com, and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 29 15:19:17 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:19:17 -0700
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F23yg35sQtgTI0002e6eb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <41825F75.31931.BCDDEC8@localhost>

    --
On 29 Oct 2004 at 10:20, Tyler Durden wrote:
> We're not reducing the quantity of government, just
> consolidating under a single growing Borg-like government,
> namely the US.

This presupposes the US intends to rule Afghanistan and Iraq,
which is manifestly false. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     TCB2vWoGyhVihGigpgZNddyxcR+FX8/hDPZankmv
     4jNqo70KLA5nfPvXptDt0z6bJGMJ0LDIX5iVsCD/p




From jamesd at echeque.com  Fri Oct 29 15:19:18 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:19:18 -0700
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <p061104f0bda7cc9b0ac1@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <4181C43E.2F55FF6F@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <41825F76.5480.BCDE347@localhost>

    --
Major Variola (ret):
> > Is this geodesic neo-conservativism?   Where can I start 
> > bearer-document goose-stepping?

R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> Impedance mismatch. You're using a (now) cryptocommie 
> codeword for Jewery ("neo-conservative") with Nazi imagery. 
> Everybody knows that Jews are communists, right? ;-). Except, 
> of course, to a cryptocommie, *everyone*'s a fascist. Must be 
> like eskimos and 19 different names for snow, or something.

The underlying theory is that Zionism/Neo Conservatism is 
pretty much the same thing as national socialism, only with 
"Jewish" substituted for Aryan.  There is some truth in the
theory, but those so sensitive to the mote in Israel's eye,
fail to notice the beam in their own eye - fail to notice that
Communism etc is pretty much the same thing as national
socialism, only with various oppressed masses substituted for
Aryan. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     wCJhHoX6NaUOg9bzELh3wQAX0TvI/0xSpIOmC1vM
     4LSyiD05pLm9WYrKDI9oyxCi8ABMK6tMoAkxIOGhU




From kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com  Fri Oct 29 13:16:54 2004
From: kelsey.j at ix.netcom.com (John Kelsey)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:16:54 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
Message-ID: <1137376.1099081015301.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <rah at shipwright.com>
>Sent: Oct 29, 2004 7:06 AM
>To: cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net
>Subject: Re: Geodesic neoconservative empire

...
>It has always amused me that libertarians and anarcho-capitalists insist on
>using the language of the left to describe the things they don't like. One
>of the reasons that the right in this country has been so successful has
>been their development of a useful analytic apparatus, and corresponding
>language, over the past 50 years, certainly more so than the left, which is
>nothing but marxism, dilluted or otherwise.

Is there a better term than "empire" for what gets built when your country goes out, invades lots of other countries, takes them over, and runs them?  I don't know about other peoples' objections to this, but mine mainly involve my belief that this is an expensive and not very effective way to deal with terrorism.  

...
>At the moment force-monopoly is, by definition of monopoly, a hierarchical
>market. Hence the "dance with the girl that brung ya" bit. They have
>already *stolen* my money, they might as well be doing something with it

Well, the question is, what ought they to be doing with it.  Invading Iraq to build a democracy there, in hopes of somehow fixing the root causes of terrorism (as similarly goofy idealists on the left once thought they could do for crime in the US), looks like a waste of time and money.  I suspect we're causing ourselves more problems, as Iraq is not only a place where terrorists can go to attack the US and be attacked by us in turn, it's also a place where there are lots of people learning the basic skills of being a terrorist, gaining some experience in doing so, etc.  Do you think we're going to kill all of those people?  Do you think they'll all abandon terrorist tactics when things quiet down in Iraq?  

I know the Republican line these days is that we're safer because the bad guys are all shooting at Marines in Iraq, rather than at civilians in Des Moines.  But that only makes sense if we don't end up with a much bigger problem later, as a result.  Perhaps we should all have rested more secure in our beds when the jihadis were streaming into Afghanistan, where they would be killed in large numbers by the Red Army.  But it's not clear that was a long-term win....  

Anyway, you sound like there's some willingness on the part of this administration (or the one Kerry may set up in January) to actually cut government spending to other things, in order to do the nation building thing.  What evidence have you seen for that, so far?  

...
>Cheers,
>RAH




From rah at shipwright.com  Fri Oct 29 13:35:35 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:35:35 -0400
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <1137376.1099081015301.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <1137376.1099081015301.JavaMail.root@kermit.psp.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06110456bda859f42cae@[66.149.49.5]>

At 4:16 PM -0400 10/29/04, John Kelsey wrote:
>looks like a waste of time and money

I suppose we'll find out sooner or later.

I'm not going to piss in the wind here on this anymore.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 29 17:33:43 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:33:43 -0700
Subject: 2000 curies of Ci
Message-ID: <4182E167.1B2184DC@cdc.gov>

At 10:54 AM 10/29/04 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 09:19 PM 10/28/2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>>Perhaps you meant Cs-137.  Halliburton loses mCi of Am-241 etc
monthly.
>
>MilliCuries?  That's a bit surprising,
>though losing microCuries of it would be more likely.
>An average home smoke detector has 1-5 microcuries,
>and industrial detectors go up to 15, according to
>one or two articles on the web which may be outdated.
>So you're saying they lose hundreds to thousands of
>smoke detectors a month?

They lose the neutron sources used for well logging.
They contain mCi amounts of Am241 and other hot
'topes.  They use a reaction with Be to produce neutrons
from alphas, like the early nukebomb initiators.

More often, soil-density gauges are lost/stolen from
road crews.  They also have fractional Ci amounts of
RDD-able topes.  But they're very useful; fairly sturdy;
acceptable risk.

See
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2004/
and read a few days' reports.




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 10:50:55 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:50:55 +0100
Subject: Printers betray document secrets
In-Reply-To: <417D7BD9.2030803@systemics.com>
References: <p061104d3bd9a08e62dca@[66.149.49.5]>
  <6.0.3.0.0.20041020222838.0439a390@pop.idiom.com>
  <p0620053abd9d90eb0302@[129.46.153.119]>
  <417D1A62.2050708@algroup.co.uk> <417D7BD9.2030803@systemics.com>
Message-ID: <418282FF.7020201@gmx.co.uk>

Ian Grigg wrote:
> It's actually quite an amusing problem.  When put
> in those terms, it might be cheaper and more secure
> to go find some druggie down back of central station,
> and pay them a tenner to write out the ransom demand.
> Or buy a newspaper and start cutting and pasting the
> letters...
or slightly more professional - lettraset rub-down lettering. available 
in a wide range of fonts, requires no special equipment to use, and 
(although not of any value in this application) sufficiently acid 
resistant to be used on etch boards.




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 10:52:22 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:52:22 +0100
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
  real  money)
In-Reply-To: <1098744061.21969.3.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
References: <20041024133530.2912F1BF97F@absinthe.tinho.net>
  <1098744061.21969.3.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com>
Message-ID: <41828356.2030102@gmx.co.uk>

Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
> I'd thought it was so Microsoft could offer an emulation-based migration
> path to all the apps that would be broken by Longhorn.  MS has since
> backed off on the new filesystem proposal that would have been the
> biggest source of breakage (if rumors of a single-rooted, more *nix-like
> filesystem turned out to be true).
To be fair to MS, that is already here - you can "mount" NFS volumes as 
subfolders in 2K and above, just like unix. however, MS don't really 
seem to want to crow about that - just in case someone points out unix 
did this literally decades ago....




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 10:54:18 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:54:18 +0100
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
  real  money)
In-Reply-To: <20041027030725.F357E1BF969@absinthe.tinho.net>
References: <20041027030725.F357E1BF969@absinthe.tinho.net>
Message-ID: <418283CA.6010600@gmx.co.uk>

dan at geer.org wrote:
> This is what I love about the Internet -- ask a question
> and get silence but make a false claim and you get all the
> advice you can possibly eat.
   Yup. give wrong advice, and you look like a fool. correct someone 
else's wrong advice, and you make them look foolish (unless you make a 
mistake in your correction, which seems to be some sort of tradition for 
spelling flames :)
   Probably the only reason I even post is because I don't mind looking 
like a fool, if it lets me correct some misconception I am labouring 
under :)




From mv at cdc.gov  Fri Oct 29 21:01:24 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:01:24 -0700
Subject: Ruling the planet
Message-ID: <41831214.6BBBBE6@cdc.gov>

At 09:24 PM 10/29/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Agreed.  Our interest in not in Afghanistan/Iraq per se.  Our interest
is
>in ruling the *planet*, rather than any individual pissant player.

Silly JA, we want to rule the frickin' solar system.  Give GWB a line
of Peruvian and he'll go off on Mars.   The more cluefull know about
certain
more proximate artificial and aggressive satellites, but we can't
discuss them.

Got Shutter Authority?    The Zionists do...

I'll see your Iranian UF6 and raise you a Dimona...




From DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk  Fri Oct 29 13:22:44 2004
From: DaveHowe at gmx.co.uk (Dave Howe)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:22:44 +0100
Subject: Financial identity is *dangerous*? (was re: Fake companies,
      real  money)
In-Reply-To: <41828FD5.3070909@rant-central.com>
References: <20041024133530.2912F1BF97F@absinthe.tinho.net>  
  <1098744061.21969.3.camel@mesmer.rant-central.com> 
  <41828356.2030102@gmx.co.uk> <41828FD5.3070909@rant-central.com>
Message-ID: <4182A694.1090407@gmx.co.uk>

Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
> I was thinking more of the rumor that Longhorn's filesystem would
> start at '/', removing the 'X:' and the concept of separate drives
> (like unix has done for decades :) ).  When I first saw this
> discussed, the consensus was that it would break any application that
> expected to use 'X:\PATH'-style filenames or chdrive() (or whatever
> that lib call to change the default drive is).  Someone suggested
> that MS might ship an emulator to handle translation (at some
> non-trivial cost in performance, else no one would have an incentive
> to refactor) until the vendors could rewrite their apps to use the
> new native filesystem.
The more likely solution though is that longhorn will *default* to a \ 
rooted file system for fixed drives, rather than the current situation 
where it defaults to a set of drive letters.




From measl at mfn.org  Fri Oct 29 19:24:20 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:24:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <41825F75.31931.BCDDEC8@localhost>
References: <41825F75.31931.BCDDEC8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20041029212318.M41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:

> On 29 Oct 2004 at 10:20, Tyler Durden wrote:
> > We're not reducing the quantity of government, just
> > consolidating under a single growing Borg-like government,
> > namely the US.
>
> This presupposes the US intends to rule Afghanistan and Iraq,
> which is manifestly false.

Agreed.  Our interest in not in Afghanistan/Iraq per se.  Our interest is
in ruling the *planet*, rather than any individual pissant player.

>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time




From measl at mfn.org  Sat Oct 30 09:25:16 2004
From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:25:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: "We are revealed by what we hate." (fwd)
Message-ID: <20041030112442.G41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>

I think George's handlers have finally found their Inner Truth.  They have
finally come out openly to declare that hate is what drives them.

-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin at mfn.org
0xBD4A95BF

	"An ill wind is stalking
	while evil stars whir
	and all the gold apples
	go bad to the core"

	S. Plath, Temper of Time

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:52:16 -0400
From: GeorgeWBush.com <BushCheney04 at GeorgeWBush.com>
To: Alif Terranson <measl at mfn.org>
Subject: ICYMI:Two Articles on Osama Politics

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT...

The Osama Litmus Test
By DAVID BROOKS
The New York Times
10/30/04
....

Bush's response yesterday to the video was exactly right. He said we would not be intimidated. He tried to take the video out of the realm of crass politics by mentioning Kerry by name and assuring the country that he was sure Kerry agreed with him.

Kerry did say that we are all united in the fight against bin Laden, but he just couldn't help himself. His first instinct was to get political.

On Milwaukee television, he used the video as an occasion to attack the president: "He didn't choose to use American forces to hunt down Osama bin Laden. He outsourced the job." Kerry continued with a little riff from his stump speech, "I am absolutely confident I have the ability to make America safer."
...

But politics has shaped Kerry's approach to this whole issue. Back in December 2001, when bin Laden was apparently hiding in Tora Bora, Kerry supported the strategy of using Afghans to hunt him down. He told Larry King that our strategy "is having its impact, and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I think we have been doing this pretty effectively, and we should continue to do it that way."

But then the political wind shifted, and Kerry recalculated. Now Kerry calls the strategy he supported "outsourcing." When we rely on allies everywhere else around the world, that's multilateral cooperation, but when Bush does it in Afghanistan, it's "outsourcing." In Iraq, Kerry supports using local troops to chase insurgents, but in Afghanistan he is in post hoc opposition.

This is why Kerry is not cleaning Bush's clock in this election. Many people are not sure that he gets the fundamental moral confrontation. Many people are not sure he feels it, or feels anything. Since he joined the Senate, what cause has he taken a political risk for? Has he devoted himself selflessly and passionately to any movement larger than himself?

We are revealed by what we hate. When it comes to Osama bin Laden, Kerry hasn't revealed whatever it is that lies inside.

To View the Article Please Visit:
www.nytimes.com/2004/10/30/opinion/30brooks.html


Politicizing The Bin Laden Tape
By William Kristol and Stephen F. Hayes
The Weekly Standard Online
10/29/04
...

The Bush campaign wisely avoided going political. But the Kerry campaign--in comments from a top adviser and the candidate himself--did not.

Kerry gave what appear to be his first extemporaneous comments about the tape in a previously scheduled satellite interview with Kathy Mykleby, a veteran anchor with WISN TV in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
...

But Kerry finally couldn't resist politicizing the tape: "I am prepared to wage a more effective war on terror than George Bush," he added.

Kerry's comment was unfortunate, and mild compared to those made later in the day by his senior foreign policy adviser, Richard Holbrooke. In an appearance on CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports, Holbrooke, who has rejected the notion that we are in a "war on terror," said this:

"The U.S. is determined to defeat al Qaeda and its allies and the war against their use of terrorist tactics."

Holbrooke then went on the attack. "The tape shows that he's still around. We should have captured him and we haven't. And the other thing it shows, illustrates a key point which is that Senator Kerry in his relentless pursuit of terrorism is going to be very aggressive. The tape doesn't show that but Senator Kerry's comments continually--his experience shows that Osama bin Laden will draw no comfort from a Kerry presidency."
...

Blitzer: "Are you concerned though that when Americans see this videotape--it'll be all over the news media as you can imagine, not only today but in the days to come--they will be reminded of what happened on 9/11 and they'll say, 'You know what, I'd better vote for Bush because he's tougher in dealing with al Qaeda than Kerry.'"

Said Holbrooke: "I don't think so. I think it also raises a much deeper question: How can this grotesque mass murderer be out there on worldwide television more than three years after 9/11?"

Holbrooke punctuated the next sentence with exasperated pauses between his words. "Why--haven't--we--captured--him--if the Bush administration was going to be so effective in the war on terror? President Bush said in the debates that he's rolled up 75 percent of al Qaeda. Well, it sure doesn't sound like it now."

When Blitzer pointed out that Bush claimed to have captured or killed 75 percent of "al Qaeda leadership," Holbrooke scoffed. "He did not say 'leadership' at all. And how does he know? And as Secretary Rumsfeld himself said in that leaked memo, 'Aren't we creating more terrorists than we're killing?'"
...

Is there any development in the war on terror, however grave, that the Kerry campaign won't try to exploit for partisan advantage?

To View the Article Please Visit:
www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/856mpsdl.asp

******************************************************

Not Sent at Taxpayers' Expense
+---------------------------------------------+
| Paid for by BUSH-CHENEY '04, Inc.           |
+---------------------------------------------+

Copyright 2003, BUSH-CHENEY '04, Inc.

Privacy Policy:
http://www.georgewbush.com/privacypolicy.aspx




From ericm at lne.com  Sat Oct 30 12:26:02 2004
From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:26:02 -0700
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>; from
  camera_lumina@hotmail.com on Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 02:29:51PM -0400
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041030122602.A4507@slack.lne.com>

On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 02:29:51PM -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
> GodDAMN George W is a dumb fuck.
> 
> If the guy's IQ had broken the 3-digit barrier he might have figured out 
> that by nearly directly replying to the new bin Laden video he's basically 
> elevating bin Laden to a hostile head-of-state.

Bush needs bin Laden to be as scary as possible.
I'm amused by the timing.  Its almost as if they're both
following Karl Rove's playbook.

Eric




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Oct 30 12:48:54 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:48:54 -0700
Subject: "We are revealed by what we hate." (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20041030112442.G41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Brooks on The Lehrer Report last night did indeed go berzerk
in the face of Shield's superior defense of Kerry's reasonable
approach. Brooks repeatedly agreed with Shield's analysis
showing Bush/Cheney was dogmatic, inflexible and incapable
of admitting error, then went on to defend their fundamental
righteousness as being what you have to do to win against
others having the same characteristics.

He said reasonable people like us, meaning the three on the
show, are not typical of those Bush/Cheney are appealing to.
Their base consituency does not want equivocation they want
to be right, and win, no matter what other countries may want.

Brooks conceded that this desire for being a winner take all,
by force if necessary, concealed a fear of being ignorantly
wrong, and that any candidate which exploited this fear by
promising might is more powerful than knowledge and doubt
will do very well.

This argument is made here by James Donald, and before
him, Tim May and groupies.

To be sure the armaments makers aplaud this rock-headedness
of the cowards who always advocate that others die -- preferably
in large numbers -- for the safety of the yellow-striped shickenhawks 
needing their necks wrung.

Yeah, yeah, they'll rooster-crow about popping their peashooters
at anybody who violates their isolationist piss-markings of triadic
carriers, boomers and stategic bombers. But what the cowards 
want is for somebody to cuddle them like mommy did, to keep a 
tit ready to slumber-suck away nightmare doubts.

Brooks got so worked up, Shield's had to pat him on the back
to assure the weenie his futile defense of idiot hatemongerers 
didn't mean he'd get booted from the elite in-nut-hut.




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sat Oct 30 13:36:47 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:36:47 -0700
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <20041029212318.M41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <41825F75.31931.BCDDEC8@localhost> 
  <20041029212318.M41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041030132232.04096908@pop.idiom.com>

>On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, James A. Donald wrote:
> > This presupposes the US intends to rule Afghanistan and Iraq,
> > which is manifestly false.

Since this chain started by ragging on RAH about it being a
_geodesic_ neo-{Khan, con-men} empire, you're both correct -
there isn't a conflict between ruling them by proxy
and not ruling them directly, assuming that the Commander-in-Chief
can get Our Puppet Iraqis to take over ruling their country for us
as was supposed to magically happen when we knocked off
our previous puppet.  It didn't help that the Iraqis have
con-men of their own like Ahmad Chalabi telling our con-man
how easy it would be (which is what they wanted to hear)
and we've not only had to get a new puppet, we've had to
do an awful lot more work that we were supposed to.

At 07:24 PM 10/29/2004, J.A. Terranson wrote:
>Agreed.  Our interest in not in Afghanistan/Iraq per se.
>Our interest is in ruling the *planet*,
>rather than any individual pissant player.

I've never been clear how much the neo-con gang
(Wolfowitz, Leo Strauss, et al.) desire to
give America a cohesive sense of national purpose
through empire was because they cared about actually
controlling the rest of the world and
how much was because they cared about ruling America.



----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 10:53:00 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:53:00 -0400
Subject: "We are revealed by what we hate." (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p06110462bda985635c4f@[66.149.49.5]>

At 12:48 PM -0700 10/30/04, John Young wrote:
>The Lehrer Report

I think that says enough.

;-)

Stupidly,
RAH
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 30 11:29:51 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:29:51 -0400
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
Message-ID: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>

GodDAMN George W is a dumb fuck.

If the guy's IQ had broken the 3-digit barrier he might have figured out 
that by nearly directly replying to the new bin Laden video he's basically 
elevating bin Laden to a hostile head-of-state.

OK you TLA snoops...surely some of you montioring this list must have 
noticed that? Where are Mr Asswipe's brilliant advisors? Isn't this kind of 
acknowledgement practically Rule 1 in your anti-terrorist manuals? Or do you 
tacitly cooperate for the sake of job security? (ie, bin Laden gains more 
followers-->more terrorism-->more need for laws and YOU guys.) And don't get 
me wrong, I think this image shift for bin Laden will probably end up being 
a good thing (ie, we stop fuckin' around over there), but unfortunately a 
bunch of us will probably end up getting blowed-up or whatever in the 
process.

We know you're there so why not come in on an anonymous remailer and tell us 
how it feels to be you these days.

-TD

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From sunder at sunder.net  Sat Oct 30 11:42:25 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:42:25 -0400 (edt)
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>

As usual, South Park is a great source of wisdom.  So, are you voting for 
the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich?

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 13:59:27 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 16:59:27 -0400
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com> 
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <p061104aabda9b1239d9a@[66.149.49.5]>

At 2:42 PM -0400 10/30/04, Sunder wrote:
>the Turd Sandwich?

Turd Sandwich, of course.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 14:01:38 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:01:38 -0400
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <20041030122602.A4507@slack.lne.com>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com> 
  <20041030122602.A4507@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <p061104abbda9b191b737@[66.149.49.5]>

At 12:26 PM -0700 10/30/04, Eric Murray wrote:
>Its almost as if they're both
>following Karl Rove's playbook.

Yeah, that's it. Bin Laden's in Karl Rove's pocket.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 14:09:29 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:09:29 -0400
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
Message-ID: <p061104adbda9b208d338@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:36 PM -0700 10/30/04, Bill Stewart wrote:
>RAH about it being a
>_geodesic_ neo-{Khan, con-men} empire

Okay. Enough pissing in the wind. Time for a Turd Sandwich...

Cheers,
RAH
--------

<http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/hanson/hanson200410290825.asp>

The National Review
 October 29, 2004, 8:25 a.m.
The Power of Will
Winning still matters.

Victor Davis Hanson


The terrorists cannot win either a conventional or an asymmetrical war
against the United States, should it bring its full array of assets to the
struggle. Indeed, the Middle East, for all its revenue from inflated oil
prices, has a smaller economy than Spain's. It has never won a war against
a Western power. Arab nations lost in 1967, 1973, 1991, and 2004. Hence the
fatwas must go back to millennia-old glories about Saladin, the siege of
Cyprus, the Moors, and the Caliphate - about the last examples of Islamic
victories over the West. The Middle East's only successes in 1956, or
during the 1980s in Afghanistan, were due to either a United States' veto
of British operations or the importation of American stinger missiles. The
Iranian hostage crisis, Lebanon, and Mogadishu were Western retreats, not
battlefield defeats - grievous, yes, but hardly arbiters of relative
military advantage. The present terrorists are a nasty sort, but they are
still not the SS or millions of Tojo's crack Japanese troops; nor do they
have the organization or the skill of the Vietcong or NVA. These are losing
hundreds of jihadists every week in Iraq and have failed to retake
Afghanistan.

So why do the now-surrounded and desperate insurgents in Fallujah think
they can prevail, especially after the rout of the Taliban in six weeks and
the implementation of a consensual government in less than three years in
Afghanistan? In a word, the jihadists and their fellow-travelers are once
again convinced that this time it will be different because the West, and
the United States in particular, have neither the patience nor the will to
endure their primeval killing of a post-Saddam Iraq.

 Beheadings, suicide bombings, mass executions, and improvised explosive
devices are not intended to destroy or even defeat the U.S. military.
Rather, they are aimed at the taxpaying citizens back home who fuel it. In
a globalized world of instant communications, a bin Laden or Zarqawi trusts
that most of us would prefer to take out the garbage than watch a
blood-curdling video clip of yet another Western hostage kneeling before a
half-dozen psychopaths as they begin to saw off his vertebrae. They hope
that we the sickened ask, "Why waste our billions and hundreds of lives on
such primordial folk?" - wrongly equating 26 million who wish freedom with
a few thousand criminals and terrorists.

The improvised explosive device is a metaphor for our time. The killers
cannot even make the artillery shells or the timers that detonate the
bombs, but like parasites they use Western or Western-designed weaponry to
harvest Westerners. They cannot blow up enough Abrams tanks or even Humvees
to alter the battlefield landscape. But what they can accomplish is to maim
or kill a few hundred Westerners in hopes that our own media will magnify
the trauma and savagery of their attack - and do so often enough to make
300 million of us become exhausted with the entire "mess." The message of
Arabic television is that the Iraqis are supposed to blame us, not their
brethren who are killing them, for the carnage. Not our power, but our
will, is the target.

 Al Qaeda and their appendages in Iraq do not know the requisite numbers of
dead or wounded Americans necessary to break the resolve of the United
States, but brag that with 1,000 fatalities they are nearing their goal -
and thus a few more will give them a change of administration, schedules
for withdrawal, an abandoned interim Iraqi government ripe to pluck, and a
Lebanon-like paradise to reconstruct the lost sanctuary of Afghanistan. In
other words, they are desperate for a reprieve from their looming
destruction. Al Qaeda - "the Base" - without a base is not much of a
terrorist organization since its own proud appellation has become an ironic
joke.

Despite the three-week victory over the Baathists, there is some reason for
the Islamists' optimism that they can break our will - given a decade of
nonchalance after the first World Trade Center attack, the Khobar towers,
the USS Cole, and an assortment of other unanswered murders in the 1990s.
The April withdrawal from Fallujah - whether due to worry about Iraqi
civilian or our own casualties - was a grievous blow. The Spanish debacle
was an even worse Western defeat. Killing about 200 Spaniards got a
Socialist and anti-American prime minister elected and an almost-immediate
troop withdrawal from Iraq - even though such appeasement was met not with
thanks but with a subsequent attempt to blow up the judges of the Spanish
High Court.

Meanwhile, here at home, John Kerry talks about timetables for departure
and cessation of the present course. His supporters on the extreme left
from George Soros to Michael Moore blame George Bush, not Osama bin Laden
or Saddam Hussein, for the current televised butchery. There is a reason
why candidate Kerry now painfully insists that he would not precipitously
withdraw - because everyone else worldwide, from a Chirac and Schroeder to
Arafat and most of the Arab world - suspect that, in fact, he will.

 An American flight would shame Tony Blair and John Howard, leave eastern
Europe to the bullying of Paris and Berlin, destroy the Iraq interim
government, take the heat off Arab autocracies, and send a message that
American policy was back to Clintonian-like law enforcement, replete with
jargon such as "sensitive" and "nuisance." It does not matter what Kerry
would "really" wish to do, since the last two years of campaign rhetoric
have earned him the worldwide reputation of the Bush antithesis, and thus
his victory would, rightly or wrongly, be interpreted as a complete
rejection of toppling Saddam and fostering a constitutional government in
his place. His supporters and financial backers on the left would not
tolerate anything less than a withdrawal.

 Because of our astounding weaponry and superb military, the terrorists in
Fallujah count on the help of such postmodern Western guilt and internecine
blame to supply constraints on the American military every bit as effective
as the old Soviet nuclear deterrent. Again, a Michael Moore - or so they
believe - is worth an entire jihadist cell. Our parents were terrified
that, should America resort to military force abroad, they would be nuked;
we are even more scared that our lethality will earn us the parlor disdain
of the French and Germans. The terrorists are assured that the Western
press is obsessed with Abu Ghraib, but not at all with Saddam's necropolis
or their own slaughter of innocents. They suspect that those who endured
Omaha and Utah or scaled Suribachi are long sleeping in their graves, and
that a few thousand creeps in Fallujah scare us more than a quarter million
in the Bulge did our parents.

So yes, it is a strange war. Jihadists are amused that a few American
soldiers, worried over their safety, can refuse orders, call 7,000 miles
home in anguish, and expect that their complaints, handed over by Mom to
the local TV station, will turn up on national cable news before their own
commanders in the field even know what is up. A teenaged terrorist with a
RPG, being filmed as he is killed, is every bit as an effective soldier
through his globally broadcast death than had he lived on to hit his target
Humvee with his rocket in the first place. We don't ask, "Which
school-builder or power-restorer was he trying to obliterate?" but rather
"Why did we have to kill him?"

When the Islamists behead a tearful Englishman or American, it is more
likely that his surviving dad or sibling back home will be on television
all over the Middle East within minutes damning Tony Blair or George Bush,
without a word of censure for the Dark-Age head-loppers. After all, we are
not Nepalese who storm the local mosque and put the fear of God into
Islamists when they butcher our own. We are more likely to be frightened,
turn on ourselves, and condemn some American somewhere who cannot stop
"this."

 But cannot our self-induced forbearance vanish as soon as we decide enough
is enough? Should the American government ignore the EU hysteria, tell Kofi
Annan to worry about his son's crooked shenanigans and not Americans'
killing terrorists, and simply take Fallujah - as part of a larger effort
to correct the laxity of the past and finish the war - then we would surely
win. The fallout would be as salutary as our present restraint is
disastrous. Like the murderous Pakistani madrassa zealots who flocked to
Tora Bora only to be incinerated, Fallujah would not stand as a mecca for
the jihadists, but an Armageddon better to watch on television than die in.

 The truth is that war remains the same the more it changes. For all the
technological gadgetry, foreign landscapes, baffling global communications,
and endemic pacifism of the present age, war is still a struggle of the
human spirit. The morality, materiel, and technology are all on our side.
But we are confused in this postmodern age that such advantages should
automatically equate to near-instantaneous and costless victory as they
sometimes do in Panama and Serbia - as if the heart of the medieval
caliphate next to Syria and Iran, replete with terrorism and a 30-year past
of mass murder, is a mere Haiti or Grenada.

 In the heart of even the most ardent liberal lies a dormant but still
alive desire for victory, and in every strutting hawk there lingers the
fear of abject defeat. Had we secured Iraq by June 2003, the sputtering
Kerry candidacy would by now have been faulting Bush for not going into
Iran. But blink, falter, and witness beheadings and hostage-taking on
television, and Kerry can reinvent himself as the apostle of peace all
along - and a bizarre group of creepy people come out of the woodwork
professing Biblical wisdom about George Bush's purported catastrophes.

 In short, the more sophisticated, the more technological, the more hyped
and televised war becomes, the more pundits and strategists warn us about
"fourth-generational," "asymmetrical," "irregular," and "new dimensional"
conflict, the more we simply forget the unchanging requisite of the will to
win that trumps all other considerations. John Kerry has no more secret a
plan than George Bush - because there is no secret way to pacify Iraq other
than to kill the killers, humiliate their cause through defeat, and give
the credit of the victory, along with material aid and the promise of
autonomous freedom, to moderate Iraqis. Victory on the battlefield - not
the mysterious diplomacy of "wise men," or German and French sanction, or
Arab League support - alone will allow Iraq an opportunity for humane
government.

 Meanwhile, we all vote. One candidate urges us to return to the mindset of
pre-September 11 - law enforcement dealing with terrorists as nuisances. He
claims the policies that have led to an absence of another attack at home,
the end of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, idealistic efforts to extend
freedom, and radical and positive changes in Pakistan, Libya, the West
Bank, and the Gulf have made things worse. In contrast, the other reminds
us that we are in a real war against horrific enemies and are no longer
passive targets, but will fight the terrorists on their home turf, win, and
leave behind humane government. No choice could be clearer. It is America's
call.

 - Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the
Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.
-----

The New York Post


  A 'FAHRENHEIT 9/11' FAN
  BY JOHN PODHORETZ


October 30, 2004 --  CONGRATULATIONS, Michael Moore - America's worst enemy
and one of the world's most evil men is a big fan of yours.

 The most startling moment on the Osama bin Laden videotape shown yesterday
was his description of the morning of 9/11, which is certainly derived -
albeit in garbled form - from a viewing of Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11."

 "It never occurred to us that he, the commander in chief of the country,
would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to face those horrors alone,
because he thought listening to a child discussing her goats was more
important," bin Laden said.

 Just think. If the reprehensible Moore wins an Oscar for his disgusting
piece of propaganda, Hollywood will be seconding the favorable opinion of
Osama bin Laden.

 I want to caution my friends on the Right about claiming that the Osama
tape somehow is an endorsement of John Kerry. No doubt bin Laden would like
to claim credit for changing the American president. Thankfully, the
American people know better than to believe bin Laden will somehow go
easier on us if John Kerry wins on Tuesday.

 They know this monster attacked America when Bill Clinton was president
and that he and his minions will continue to plot the mass murder of
Americans no matter who is in the White House.

 But something does jump out at you when you consider the message bin Laden
was delivering to the United States. It was remarkably defensive, with bin
Laden offering some kind of bizarre truce to the American people: "To the
U.S. people," he said, "my talk is to you about the best way to avoid
another disaster."

 How thoughtful of him.

 He told us that neither Bush nor Kerry could protect America: "Your
security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda," he said. "Your
security is in your own hands."

 In other words, if the American people would somehow agree to consider the
security needs of bin Laden and his followers (whether that means just al
Qaeda or the entire Arab and Muslim world isn't clear), we'd be safe.


 "Do not play with our security, and spontaneously you will secure
yourself," he said.

 This is, I think, a profound rhetorical change from the man who vowed in
2002 that "the United States will not survive, will not feel any safety or
any security."

 Usually, bin Laden and his people tend to use the most purple and
terrifying language about the damage they're going to do to the United
States, as we saw earlier in the week when the American al Qaeda follower
"Azzam" said on his videotape that "the streets of America will run red
with blood."

 Now bin Laden is talking truce.

 What's changed, perhaps, is the ferocity of the American response to 9/11.
Since then, Osama has been on the run, his Afghanistan safe haven
destroyed, his movement under relentless financial and military assault. By
offering America a deal, no matter how twisted and pointless the deal might
be, the quality that he might be showing us isn't strength, but weakness.

 Maybe he's feeling the weariness suggested in the videotaped statement
last month by his No. 2 man, Ayman al-Zawahiri: "Oh young men of Islam," he
said, "if we are killed or captured, you should carry on the fight."

 Maybe they're buckling.

-----
<http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/hanson/hanson.asp>

The National Review

Victor Davis Hanson

October 15, 2004, 8:23 a.m.
The Therapeutic Choice
A war for our lives, or a nuisance to our lifestyle?



Americans are presented with a choice in this election rare in our history.
This is not 1952, when Democrats and Republicans did not differ too much on
the need to stay in Korea, or even 1968 when Humphrey and Nixon alike did
not wish to withdraw unilaterally from Vietnam. It is more like 1972 or
1980, when a naove McGovern/Dukakis worldview was sharply at odds with the
Nixon/Reagan tragic acknowledgement of the need to confront Soviet-inspired
Communism. Is it to be more aid, talk, indictments, and summits - or a
tough war to kill the terrorists and change the conditions that created
them?

Mr. Kerry believes that we must return to the pre-9/11 days when terrorism
was but a "nuisance." In his mind, that was a nostalgic sort of time when
the terrorist mosquito lazily buzzed about a snoring America. And we in
somnolent response merely swatted it away with a cruise missile or a few
GPS bombs when embassies and barracks were blown up. Keep the tribute of
dead Americans low, and the chronic problem was properly analogous to
law-enforcement's perpetual policing of gambling and prostitution. Many of
us had previously written off just such naoveti, but we never dreamed that
our suspicions would be confirmed so explicitly by Kerry himself.

In the now-lost age of unperturbed windsurfing and skiing, things were not
all that bad before al Qaeda overdid it by knocking down skyscrapers and a
corner of the Pentagon - followed by George Bush's commensurate
overreaction in Afghanistan and Iraq that brought on all the present messy
and really bothersome cargo of IEDs, beheadings, and promises of dirty
bombs to come. The Taliban and Saddam were, of course, bad sports. But
really, going all the way over there to topple them, implant democracy, and
change the status quo of the Middle East? Tsk, tsk, tsk - well, that was a
bit much, was it not?

Terrorist killing, like the first World Trade Center bombing or the USS
Cole, certainly was not seen as the logical precursor to 9/11 - the
expected wages of a quarter century of appeasement that started with the
weak Carter response to the Iranian hostages and was followed by dead
soldiers, diplomats, and tourists about every other year. No, these were
"incidents" like 9/11 itself - "law-enforcement" issues that called for the
DA, writs, and stern prison sentences, the sort of stuff that barristers
like Kerry, Edwards, Kennedy, and McAuliffe handle so well.

This attitude is part of the therapeutic view of the present struggle that
continually suggests that something we did - not the mass murdering out of
the Dark Age - brought on our present bother that is now "the focus of our
lives." We see this irritation with the inconvenience and sacrifice once
more reemerging in the Atlantic Monthly, Harpers, and the New York Times:
We, not fascists and Islamist psychopaths, are blamed for the mess in Iraq,
the mess in Afghanistan, the mess on the West Bank, and the mess here at
home, but never credited with the first election in 5,000 years in
Afghanistan or consensual government replacing autocracy in the heart of
the ancient caliphate.

 Sometimes our problems arise over our past failure to chastise the
Russians over Chechnya. Or was it not enough attention to Mr. Arafat's
dilemmas? Or maybe we extended prior support for corrupt sheiks? All that
and more - according to rogue CIA "experts," best-selling authors, and the
omnipresent Richard Clarke - earned us the wrath of the Islamists. Thus
surely our past transgressions can be alleviated by present contrition,
dialogue, aid, and policy changes of the European kind.

 To all you of the therapeutic mindset, listen up. We can no more reason
with the Islamic fascists than we could sympathize with the Nazis' demands
over supposedly exploited Germans in Czechoslovakia or the problem of
Tojo's Japan's not getting its timely scrap-metal shipments from
Roosevelt's America. Their pouts and gripes are not intended to be
adjudicated as much as to weaken the resolve of many in the United States
who find the entire "war against terror" too big, or the wrong kind, of a
nuisance.

Instead, read the fatwas. You hear not just of America's injustice in
Palestine or Chechnya - not to mention nothing about saving Kuwait, Bosnia,
Kosovo or Afghanistan of the 1980s - but also of what we did in Spain in
the 15th century and in Tyre, Gaza, and Jerusalem in the 12th. The mystery
of September 11, 2001, is not that it happened, but that it did not quite
happen when first tried in 1993 during Bill Clinton's madcap efforts to
move a smiling Arafat into the Lincoln Bedroom and keep our hands off bin
Laden. Only an American with a JD or PhD would cling to the idea that there
was not a connection between Group A Middle Eastern terrorists who attacked
the WTC in 1993 and Group B who finished the job in 2001.

A Kerry presidency, we know now, will go back to the tried and true
institutions so dear to the therapeutic mind that please the elite and
sensitive of our society. How silly that most Americans are about through
with the U.N. Indeed, we Neanderthals want it relegated to something like
the Red Cross tucked away at the Hague, if not on the frontlines in Nigeria
or Bolivia. Yes, we dummies have seen enough of its General Assembly
resolutions aimed at the only democracy in the Middle East, its promotion
of rogue states such as Syria, Cuba, Iran, and Libya to human-rights
watchdogs, its corrupt Oil-for-Food program, and its present general
secretary and his role in nepotism and sweet-heart contracts at the expense
of the Iraqi people. No surprise that a shaken perpetual-president Hosni
Mubarak is calling for a U.N. conference on terror with wonderful Arab
League logic: 'You kill Jews on your own soil, good; you kill them on mine
and lose me money, bad.'

 The artists, musicians, and entertainers have also railed against the war.
In the therapeutic mindset, the refinement and talent of a Sean Penn,
Michael Moore, Al Franken, Bruce Springsteen, or John Fogerty earn respect
when they weigh in on matters of state policy. But in the tragic view, they
can be little more than puppets of inspiration. Their natural gifts are not
necessarily enriched by real education or learning. Indeed, they are just
as likely to be high-school or college dropouts and near illiterates,
albeit with good memories, voices, and looks. The present antics of these
influential millionaire entertainers should remind us why Plato banished
them - worried that we might confuse the inspired creative frenzies of the
artisans with some sort of empirical knowledge. But you can no more sing,
or write, or act al Qaeda away than the equally sensitive novelists and
intellectuals of the 1930s or 1940s could rehabilitate Stalin.

And then there are the new green billionaires who no longer worry about the
struggle to make any more money, much less about state, federal, and
payroll taxes that can eat up half of a person's income. A George Soros may
have made his pile by trying to destroy the British financial system, but
now he wishes to leave the world safe for currency traders to come by
defeating George Bush. The up-from-the-bootstraps struggle to create the
dough for the Heinz fortune is a century past and forgotten - thus the
post-capitalist Teresa in her private jet and John Kerry on his $500,000
power boat can lecture us about Americans' shameless oil profligacy and
George Bush's blood for oil gambit in Iraq.

Our mainstream media also cannot quite believe we are at war with evil
people who wish us dead - something like the crises that have faced all
civilizations at one time or another. Instead, to ponder Rathergate or the
recent ABC memo advocating bias in its reporting is to fathom the arrogance
of the Enlightenment, and the learned's frustration with those of us
less-gifted folk who don't quite wish to follow where they lead us. Such
anointed ones have taken on the burden of saving us from George Bush and
his retrograde ideas. After all, who believes that anyone would really wish
to reinstate a mythical caliphate, a Muslim paradise of sharia, gender
apartheid, and theocracy spreading the globe through Islamic nukes and
biological and chemical bombs? How one dimensional and unsophisticated.

Meanwhile most Americans have already quietly made up their minds. They
think the Democratic party is run not by unionists, farmers, miners,
truckers, and average folk, but by those rich enough not to have to make a
living, and who wish out of either guilt or noblesse oblige to force the
dumber upper middle class to be more sensitive, generous, or utopian.
Americans also believe Europe has lost its way and is bogged down in a
hopeless and soon-to-be scary task of legislating by fiat heaven on earth.
We of the tragic persuasion wish them well with Turkey and their
unassimilated Islamic populations, but we don't want our hurtful combat
troops there after 60 years of subsidized peacekeeping. Americans also
don't care much about the Nobel prizes anymore - not when a Jimmy Carter is
praised after trying to undermine his own president on the eve of war, and
not when the most recent peace-prize winner rants on that AIDS is a
Western-created germ agent unleashed to hurt Africa but silent about $15
billion in American aid to stop what her own continent is spreading.

John Kerry is probably going to lose this election, despite the "Vote for
Change" rock tour, despite Air America, despite Kitty Kelley's fraud hyped
on national media, despite Soros's moveon.org hit pieces, despite
Fahrenheit 9-11, despite the Nobel Prizes and Cannes Film Awards, despite
Rathergate and ABC Memogate, despite the European press, despite Kofi
Annan's remonstrations, despite a barking Senator Harkin or Kennedy,
despite the leaks of rogue CIA Beltway insiders, despite Jimmy Carter's
sanctimonious lectures, despite Joe Wilson, Anonymous, and Richard Clarke -
and more. You all have given your best shot, but I think you are going to
lose.

Why? Because the majority of Americans does not believe you. The majority
is more likely to accept George Bush's tragic view that we really are in a
war for our very survival to stop those who would kill us and to alter the
landscape that produced them - a terrible war that we are winning.

 When all is said and done, it still is as simple as that.

 - Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the
Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.
  

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Oct 30 17:23:15 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:23:15 -0700
Subject: "We are revealed by what we hate." (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <p06110462bda985635c4f@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> 
  <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <E1CO0lB-0000Fj-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Now, Bob, master your knee jerk eye-poke: Brooks is a 
regular on the Lehrer show, paired with Shields for, cough, 
balance. Muddle v. muddle, judge-judied by muddle.

Brooks is the only one of the three without orange hair,
the other two a generation older. And he's near wattleless.
His sparse hair is honest compared to the henna, hair 
enhancer, make-up and wrinkle filler on the two 
turkied-geezers seeming coutured by the same Madame
Toussaint as Peter Jennings' boyish mortician deathshead.

Which returns to the Osama make-over. His nose looks
much bigger, longer and wider, eyes closer together. The 
sage-of-the-desert color combination of his face and hands, 
beard, robe, hat and backdrop look as if it was shot in 
New Mexico, or maybe Israel pretending Lawrence of
Arabia remake.

So who's holding the sage, and where, who's scripting the
spiel, who's got the most to gain to keep Osama unburied,
dead or alive?

Most exciting, though, is who's gonna launch the election
day massive massacre on behalf of the pret a porter suspects,
in the can and ready to show.




From sunder at sunder.net  Sat Oct 30 14:26:59 2004
From: sunder at sunder.net (Sunder)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:26:59 -0400 (edt)
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <p061104aabda9b1239d9a@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>   
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net> 
  <p061104aabda9b1239d9a@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301726100.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>

No! You must vote for the Giant Douche!  Or the Terrorists Win!

But won't someone think of the chiiiildren!  If you vote for the Douche, 
the ChiiiillLdren will die!


ROTFL!

----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
 + ^ + :"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.  /|\
  \|/  :They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country /\|/\
<--*-->:and our people, and neither do we." -G. W. Bush, 2004.08.05 \/|\/
  /|\  :                                                             \|/
 + v + :    War is Peace, freedom is slavery, Bush is President.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, R.A. Hettinga wrote:

> At 2:42 PM -0400 10/30/04, Sunder wrote:
> >the Turd Sandwich?
> 
> Turd Sandwich, of course.
> 
> Cheers,
> RAH
> 
> -- 
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Oct 30 17:30:25 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:30:25 -0700
Subject: "We are revealed by what we hate." (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <p06110462bda985635c4f@[66.149.49.5]>
References: <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> 
  <E1CNwTg-0003Hm-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <E1CO0s6-0002BV-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

No, Madame Toussaint is the fake Madame Tussaud.




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 14:46:57 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:46:57 -0400
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301726100.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>     
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>   
  <p061104aabda9b1239d9a@[66.149.49.5]> 
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301726100.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <p061104b0bda9bc172eb4@[66.149.49.5]>

At 5:26 PM -0400 10/30/04, Sunder wrote:
>No! You must vote for the Giant Douche!  Or the Terrorists Win!


Dude. Go see the episode.

Look at the font on the Turd Sandwich float.

Of *course* I'm for the Turd Sandwich.

I can even give you the torrent file, so you can confirm your error...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jya at pipeline.com  Sat Oct 30 17:50:00 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:50:00 -0700
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <p061104adbda9b208d338@[66.149.49.5]>
Message-ID: <E1CO1B3-0001OR-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Hoover Institution says it all. Heh.

Will to win is the opium of warmongerers, Nietszchean
armchair blowhards.

Come on, Bob, you did the philosophy turn, poke holes
in the blather coming from these righteous pedants hustling
for the military/natsec ghouls, extorting the public for
expensive useless hardware, exhorting families to 
breed dead-heading patriotic youngsters.

Rhetorical bloodlusters, they be, who never took a bullet 
in the spine, no spine in fork-tongued snakes.

Put these vapid thinktankers in a veteran hospital toting 
bedpans, sniffing gangrene, hearing a quadriplegic
beg god to headchop clubhouse shits who drunkenly
cry for war.




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 14:58:16 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:58:16 -0400
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <E1CO1B3-0001OR-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <E1CO1B3-0001OR-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p061104b1bda9be88c154@[66.149.49.5]>

At 5:50 PM -0700 10/30/04, John Young wrote:
>Rhetorical bloodlusters, they be

Absolutely.

Go read Hanson's "Carnage and Culture". Feed your bloodlust.

:-).

Cheers,
RAH
Who knows who Brooks is, too:

<http://nytimes.com/2004/10/30/opinion/30brooks.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times
October 30, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST

The Osama Litmus Test
By DAVID BROOKS

he nuisance is back!

 Remember when John Kerry told Matt Bai of The Times Magazine that he
wanted to reduce the terrorists to a nuisance? Kerry vowed to mitigate the
problem of terrorism until it became another regrettable and tolerable fact
of life, like gambling, organized crime and prostitution.

 That was the interview in which he said Sept. 11 "didn't change me much at
all." He said it confirmed in him a sense of urgency, "of doing the things
we thought we needed to be doing."

 Well, the Osama bin Laden we saw last night was not a problem that needs
to be mitigated. He was not the leader of a movement that can be reduced to
a nuisance.

 What we saw last night was revolting. I suspect that more than anything
else, he reminded everyone of the moral indignation we all felt on and
after Sept. 11.

 Here was this monster who killed 3,000 of our fellows showing up on our TV
screens, trying to insert himself into our election, trying to lecture us
on who is lying and who is telling the truth. Here was this villain
traipsing through his own propaganda spiel with copycat Michael Moore
rhetoric about George Bush in the schoolroom, and Jeb Bush and the 2000
Florida election.

 Here was this deranged killer spreading absurd theories about the American
monarchy and threatening to murder more of us unless we do what he says.

 One felt all the old emotions. Who does he think he is, and who does he
think we are?

 One of the crucial issues of this election is, Which candidate
fundamentally gets the evil represented by this man? Which of these two
guys understands it deep in his gut - not just in his brain or in his
policy statements, but who feels it so deep in his soul that it consumes
him?

 It's quite clear from the polls that most Americans fundamentally think
Bush does get this. Last March, Americans preferred Bush over Kerry in
fighting terrorism by 60 percent to 33 percent, according to the Gallup
Poll. Now, after a furious campaign and months of criticism, that number is
unchanged. Bush is untouched on this issue.

 Bush's response yesterday to the video was exactly right. He said we would
not be intimidated. He tried to take the video out of the realm of crass
politics by mentioning Kerry by name and assuring the country that he was
sure Kerry agreed with him.

 Kerry did say that we are all united in the fight against bin Laden, but
he just couldn't help himself. His first instinct was to get political.

 On Milwaukee television, he used the video as an occasion to attack the
president: "He didn't choose to use American forces to hunt down Osama bin
Laden. He outsourced the job." Kerry continued with a little riff from his
stump speech, "I am absolutely confident I have the ability to make America
safer."

 Even in this shocking moment, this echo of Sept. 11, Kerry saw his
political opportunities and he took 'em. There's such a thing as being so
nakedly ambitious that you offend the people you hope to impress.

 But politics has shaped Kerry's approach to this whole issue. Back in
December 2001, when bin Laden was apparently hiding in Tora Bora, Kerry
supported the strategy of using Afghans to hunt him down. He told Larry
King that our strategy "is having its impact, and it is the best way to
protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will. I
think we have been doing this pretty effectively, and we should continue to
do it that way."

 But then the political wind shifted, and Kerry recalculated. Now Kerry
calls the strategy he supported "outsourcing." When we rely on allies
everywhere else around the world, that's multilateral cooperation, but when
Bush does it in Afghanistan, it's "outsourcing." In Iraq, Kerry supports
using local troops to chase insurgents, but in Afghanistan he is in post
hoc opposition.

 This is why Kerry is not cleaning Bush's clock in this election. Many
people are not sure that he gets the fundamental moral confrontation. Many
people are not sure he feels it, or feels anything. Since he joined the
Senate, what cause has he taken a political risk for? Has he devoted
himself selflessly and passionately to any movement larger than himself?

 We are revealed by what we hate. When it comes to Osama bin Laden, Kerry
hasn't revealed whatever it is that lies inside.

 E-mail: dabrooks at nytimes.com

Copyrigh
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From eugen at leitl.org  Sat Oct 30 11:28:55 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:28:55 +0200
Subject: Geodesic neoconservative empire
In-Reply-To: <20041029212318.M41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>
References: <41825F75.31931.BCDDEC8@localhost>
  <20041029212318.M41612@ubzr.zsa.bet>
Message-ID: <20041030182855.GG1457@leitl.org>

On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 09:24:20PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:

> Agreed.  Our interest in not in Afghanistan/Iraq per se.  Our interest is
> in ruling the *planet*, rather than any individual pissant player.

Empires never last, and if there's going to be a new one, it's going to be
Chinese. (Of course it won't last, either).

It sucks to be old-growth in a large new-growth market.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct 30 21:09:11 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:09:11 -0700
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion, UBL=Moses
Message-ID: <41846567.85E4BCF4@cdc.gov>

At 10:16 PM 10/30/04 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 02:42:25PM -0400, Sunder wrote:
>
>> As usual, South Park is a great source of wisdom.  So, are you voting
for
>> the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich?
>
>My candidate is Mr Hanky, Poo party.
>

I'm voting for Kodos.  [Simpsons ref]

UBL was pleasantly rational in this one.  Even explained the origin
of the tower-dropping plans, which was a nice bit for the historians.
I'm surprised
the "Ask yourselves why we didn't attack Sweden" comment
isn't discussed more; then again I find even intelligent people
refractory to that obvious question.
UBL still thinks lay Americans elect their leaders, or have
a clue what they're doing, but he is a man of strong faith.  He even
gave
a succint reminder of the way out, "Leave my people alone", Moses
like.  Time for more locusts, frogs, red tides, or modern equivalents,
I'm afraid.  Extra points for the commentary on Bush Sr learning about
dynasty from
the Saudis, etc, and installing his sons as governors.

------
M. Atta -an Army of One




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct 30 21:21:17 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:21:17 -0700
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
Message-ID: <4184683C.7F3667D9@cdc.gov>

At 05:09 PM 10/30/04 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>The terrorists cannot win either a conventional or an asymmetrical war
>against the United States, should it bring its full array of assets to
the
>struggle.

The large pit of smoldering radioactive glass is probably not an
option..

>The improvised explosive device is a metaphor for our time. The killers

>cannot even make the artillery shells or the timers that detonate the
>bombs, but like parasites they use Western or Western-designed weaponry
to
>harvest Westerners.

The "cannot even make" is patently offensive; why do nitration when what
you
need is around?  And how many Americans could wire a Casio or Nokia
to a det cap on their own?

They cannot blow up enough Abrams tanks or even Humvees
>to alter the battlefield landscape.

Obviously the US mil industrial machine is not the weak link.

But what they can accomplish is to maim
>or kill a few hundred Westerners in hopes that our own media will
magnify
>the trauma and savagery of their attack - and do so often enough to
make
>300 million of us become exhausted with the entire "mess."

Say 10 years from now, the dead marine count is in the high 5 figures,
(perhaps they are drafted), there's more snuff-videos than porn on the
web, the US *will* give up and leave, and the Jihad LLC will have won.

10 years, 20 years, whatever.   Persistance works.  And the martyrs
enjoy
the virgins, at best the infidels play harps and fly around the clouds,
yawn.

I'll see your IED and raise you Brittney's belly-button.




From mv at cdc.gov  Sat Oct 30 21:23:19 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:23:19 -0700
Subject: Osama's makeover
Message-ID: <418468B7.F7214786@cdc.gov>

At 05:23 PM 10/30/04 -0700, John Young wrote:

>Which returns to the Osama make-over. His nose looks
>much bigger, longer and wider, eyes closer together. The
>sage-of-the-desert color combination of his face and hands,
>beard, robe, hat and backdrop look as if it was shot in
>New Mexico, or maybe Israel pretending Lawrence of
>Arabia remake.

And did you see the wire up his back and the earpiece?

Or maybe its hard to get good tailors in Pakistan.




From eugen at leitl.org  Sat Oct 30 13:16:07 2004
From: eugen at leitl.org (Eugen Leitl)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 22:16:07 +0200
Subject: bin Laden gets a Promotion
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
References: <BAY24-F3298vvwNeZsj00011bb9@hotmail.com>
  <Pine.BSO.4.58.0410301441480.3488@silkworth.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <20041030201607.GR1457@leitl.org>

On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 02:42:25PM -0400, Sunder wrote:

> As usual, South Park is a great source of wisdom.  So, are you voting for
> the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich?

My candidate is Mr Hanky, Poo party.

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144            http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org         http://nanomachines.net

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 31 00:22:09 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:22:09 -0700
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <4184683C.7F3667D9@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <41843031.16766.12E53DC1@localhost>

    --
At 05:09 PM 10/30/04 -0400, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> > The terrorists cannot win either a conventional or an 
> > asymmetrical war against the United States, should it bring 
> > its full array of assets to the struggle.

Major Variola
> The large pit of smoldering radioactive glass is probably not 
> an option..

Why not?

You keep assuming that Muslims unite, escalate, etc, but if 
they do, US will escalate also.

In fact, there is not much the Islamicists can do to escalate
beyond their current extremes.   There is a great deal the US
could do to escalate beyone its current measures. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     odq504QOMD1tmYFgnLderv0nS117FbcIG83t4MIX
     4GzccezZIfj7BfeEbPLrXimv+SU42yCuvTxkLS+Rn




From rah at shipwright.com  Sat Oct 30 21:28:06 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:28:06 -0400
Subject: "Ask yourselves why we didn't attack Sweden"
In-Reply-To: <41846567.85E4BCF4@cdc.gov>
References: <41846567.85E4BCF4@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <p061104ecbdaa17799a37@[66.149.49.5]>

At 9:09 PM -0700 10/30/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>I'm surprised
>the "Ask yourselves why we didn't attack Sweden" comment
>isn't discussed more


<http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=5096>


HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944

'Europe Will Be Islamic by the End of the Century'

by Robert Spencer
Posted Sep 16, 2004 How quickly is Europe being Islamized? So quickly that
even historian Bernard Lewis, who has continued throughout his honor-laden
career to be strangely disingenuous about certain realities of Islamic
radicalism and terrorism, told the German newspaper Die Welt forthrightly
that "Europe will be Islamic by the end of the century."

 Or maybe sooner. Consider some indicators from Scandinavia this past week:

Sweden's third-largest city, Malmx, according to the Swedish Aftonbladet,
has become an outpost of the Middle East in Scandinavia: "The police now
publicly admit what many Scandinavians have known for a long time: They no
longer control the situation in the nations's third largest city. It is
effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants. Some of the
Muslims have lived in the area of Rosengerd, Malmx, for twenty years, and
still don't know how to read or write Swedish. Ambulance personnel are
attacked by stones or weapons, and refuse to help anybody in the area
without police escort. The immigrants also spit at them when they come to
help. Recently, an Albanian youth was stabbed by an Arab, and was left
bleeding to death on the ground while the ambulance waited for the police
to arrive. The police themselves hesitate to enter parts of their own city
unless they have several patrols, and need to have guards to watch their
cars, otherwise they will be vandalized."


The Nordgerdsskolen in Aarhus, Denmark, has become the first Dane-free
Danish school. The students now come entirely from Denmark's
fastest-growing constituency: Muslim immigrants.


Also in Denmark, the Qur'an is now required reading for all upper-secondary
school students. There is nothing wrong with that in itself, but it is
unlikely, given the current ascendancy of political correctness on the
Continent, that critical perspectives will be included.


Pakistani Muslim leader Qazi Hussain Ahmed gave an address at the Islamic
Cultural Center in Oslo. He was readily allowed into the country despite
that fact that, according to Norway's Aftenposten, he "has earlier make
flattering comments about Osama bin Laden, and his party, Jamaat-e-Islami,
also has hailed al-Qaeda members as heroes." In Norway, he declined to
answer questions about whether or not he thought homosexuals should be
killed.

 Elsewhere in Europe the jihad is taking a more violent form. Dutch
officials have uncovered at least fifteen separate terrorist plots, all
aimed at punishing the Netherlands for its 1,300 peacekeeping troops in
Iraq. And in Spain, Moroccan Muslims, including several suspected
participants in the March 11 bombings in Madrid, have taken control of a
wing of a Spanish prison. From there they broadcast Muslim prayers at high
volume, physically intimidated non-Muslim prisoners, hung portraits of
Osama bin Laden, and boasted, "We are going to win the holy war." The
guards' response? They asked the ringleaders please to lower the volume on
the prayers.

 What are European governments doing about all this? France is pressing
forward with an appeasement campaign to free two French journalists held
hostage by jihadists in Iraq. The Swedish state agency for foreign aid is
sponsoring a "Palestinian Solidarity Conference," which aims, among other
things, to pressure the European Union to remove the terrorist group Hamas
from the EU's list of terrorist groups -- despite Hamas's long history of
encouraging and glorifying the murder of civilians by suicide bombers.

 What Europe has long sown it is now reaping. Bat Ye'or, the pioneering
historian of dhimmitude, the institutionalized oppression of non-Muslims in
Muslim societies, chronicles in her forthcoming book Eurabia how it has
come to this. Europe, she explains, began thirty years ago to travel down a
path of appeasement, accommodation, and cultural abdication before Islam in
pursuit of short-sighted political and economic benefits. She observes that
today "Europe has evolved from a Judeo-Christian civilization, with
important post-Enlightenment/secular elements, to a 'civilization of
dhimmitude,' i.e., Eurabia: a secular-Muslim transitional society with its
traditional Judeo-Christian mores rapidly disappearing."

 After the Beslan child massacres, however, there are signs from Eastern
Europe that this may be changing. Last Sunday Poland turned away one
hundred Chechen Muslims who were trying to enter the country from Belarus.
This is the sort of measure that the countries west of Poland have been so
far unwilling to take. But since one cannot by any means screen out the
jihadists from the moderate Muslims, and the moderates are not helping
identify the jihadists either, what choice did the Poles have?

 It might not be too long before they will have to turn away entrants from
Scandinavia and France as well.

-----


<http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20031028-083517-4718r>

The Washington Times
 www.washingtontimes.com

Anti-Semitism in Sweden
By Arnold Beichman
Published October 29, 2003

    By now we've come to accept that, as Germany was once the hotbed of
anti-Semitism, it is the Middle East -- from Egypt to Damascus to Saudi
Arabia to the PLO -- which today is a seething cauldron of racism. What,
however, is even more alarming is that anti-Semitism is spreading to what
would hitherto be considered the most unlikely places.
     I have before me a study published Oct. 20 in a leading Swedish daily,
Dagens Nyheter, which reports that "Arab and Muslim attacks on Jews are
rising sharply in Swedish society [while] silence surrounds Muslim
Jew-hatred." The study, inadequately translated from Swedish, was prepared
by two Swedish social scientists, Sverker Oredssom, a professor of history,
and Mikael Tossavainen, his research assistant.
     The situation has become so bad, they report, that "Jews in Sweden
today often feel compelled to hide their religious identity in public:
necklaces with stars of David are carefully hidden under sweaters, and
orthodox Jewish men change their kippot [skullcaps] to more discreet caps
or hats when they are outdoors. Jews in Sweden nowadays get secret
telephone numbers to avoid harassment. In Sweden. Today."
     In a Swedish population of some 9 million, there are about 20,000
Jews, mostly in Stockholm, Sweden's capital. The social scientists blame
the Muslim migrants, now 3.9 percent of the Swedish population, for the
growth of anti-Semitism. (Sweden has the second-largest percentage Muslim
population in Western Europe. France has the highest Muslim population
percentage, 7 percent.)
     "Most Swedes believe that anti-Semitism is an extinct problem in our
country," they write. "Most Swedes believe that our society has evolved and
that we are more enlightened today. ... Unfortunately, they are wrong.
During the last year, the security police registered 131 anti-Semitic
crimes. Nobody knows how many incidents go unreported. but the security
police expect the number to be large."
     Jewish congregations in Sweden have noted a sharp increase in
"harassment, threats and attacks by Arabs and Muslims against Jews in
Swedish society during the last few years," the report states. "The problem
is furthermore aggravated by the almost complete silence which surrounds
this form of Jew-hatred. If anti-Semitism among Arabs and Muslims in Sweden
is discussed at all in Swedish media, it tends to be in the form of
trivializations or denials of the problem."
     The report's authors say anti-Semitism was once "only found among
marginalized groups at the extreme right and left. That is not the case
anymore. During the last decade, another form of anti-Semitism has started
to spread in the suburbs of large Swedish towns: a Jew-hatred often
imported from the Middle East and not seldom presented under an Islamic
flag which also wins adherents among groups of Arabs and Muslims in Sweden."
     Teachers in Swedish suburbs report widespread hostility against Jews
among Arab and Muslim students. Several Internet Web sites in Swedish
report on Muslim political and religious topics and at the same time spread
anti-Semitic propaganda in this fashion: the Holocaust is dismissed as a
Zionist fiction, an event that never happened. Then comes another
declaration, this one full of admiration for Adolf Hitler and regret that
he didn't live long enough to complete his extermination campaign.
     One Swedish Web site announces the existence of a Jewish conspiracy to
take over the world, an announcement with which Malaysia's Prime Minister
Mahatir Mohammed would be in full agreement.
     At some point the European democracies, like Sweden, will have to
decide how far freedom of expression and other civil liberties extend when
Web sites in several European languages, including Swedish, are publishing
blood libels against Jewish citizens. The American philosopher, Arthur O.
Lovejoy, has written:
     "The conception of freedom is not one which implies the legitimacy and
inevitability of its own suicide. It is, on the contrary, a conception
which defines the limits of its own applicability; what it implies is that
there is one kind of freedom which is inadmissible -- the freedom to
destroy freedom. The defender of freedom of thought and speech is not
morally bound to enter the fight with both hands tied behind his back."
     
     Arnold Beichman, a Hoover Institution research fellow, is a columnist
for The Washington Times.
     


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 05:27:49 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:27:49 -0400
Subject: Uk.gov database 'rationalisation', the ID scheme way
Message-ID: <p06110404bdaa7f4339bd@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/29/id_scheme_eats_cip/print.html>

The Register


 Biting the hand that feeds IT

The Register ; Internet and Law ; Digital Rights/Digital Wrongs ;

 Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/29/id_scheme_eats_cip/

Uk.gov database 'rationalisation', the ID scheme way
By John Lettice (john.lettice at theregister.co.uk)
Published Friday 29th October 2004 17:01 GMT

Among the Home Office "concessions" on ID cards hailed (with quite
remarkable promptness) this week by Home Affairs Committee chairman John
Denham MP (Lab) was "the rationalisation of current database proposals and
the dropping of the Citizen Information Project." Denham appears however to
have been in error in cheering the demise of the CIP on behalf of his
Committee, for just 24 hours later Treasury Chief Secretary Paul Boateng
issued a written statement to Parliament indicating the CIP is actually
being reworked to use the national ID register.

Or vice versa? According to Boateng's statement: "The CIP team has
investigated the costs and benefits of a range of potential options for
delivering a population register. It has recommended that proposals for a
national identity register (NIR), as part of the Government's proposals for
ID cards, mean that if ID cards were to become compulsory then it may be
more cost effective to deliver these benefits through the NIR, rather than
develop a separate register. The Government has accepted this
recommendation."

The CIP has been going through the works via the Office of National
Statistics
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/08/05/uk_birth_certificates_to_morph/)
as a sort of cuddlier cousin to the ID scheme. The modernisation of births,
marriages, deaths and the like led government thoughts to turn to what kind
of additional related services could be offered to the citizen, with these
ideas being fairly neatly encapsulated in the concept of the "through life
record". As the white paper Civil Registration: Vital Change tells us "the
creation of a central database of registration records provides the
opportunity to make improvements..." Which is all well and good until
alongside this particular register of names addresses and sundry details
about the population there arrives another register with, as the Home
Affairs Committee report put it, "a very large degree of overlap".

In its response on Wednesday the Home Office did not say 'dropping' - it
did say: "The Government believes that the NIR has the longer term
potential to fulfil some of the functions envisaged for the national
population register. In the light of developments to the NIR, CIP is no
longer actively exploring options to improve the quality and effectiveness
of existing registers, including the possible use of personal reference
numbers." So the CIP is no longer developing its own population register as
the electronic implementation of births, marriages and deaths, and the
National Identity Register becomes that population register, with the CIP
going ahead, but now hinging on the NIR.

Which you might view as more of an expansion of the ID scheme than a
concession, as such. Alongside the specific CIP complaint, Home Affairs
expressed its concern over the growing number of government databases in
general. "We believe that the Government must tackle this proliferation of
databases, examining in each case whether the number, identifier or
database is needed, what its relationship to other existing or planned
databases, how data will be shared or verified and other relevant issues.
For this action to be effective, it must be co-ordinated at the highest
levels of the Civil Service... an identity card should enable access to all
Government databases, so that there would be no need for more than one
government-issued card."

In its response the Home Office appears to indicate that the CIP-NIR
approach could present a model for other services, saying "we believe that
the identity card will provide an opportunity for more joined up Government
by providing a consistent and standard business key for future systems
evolution." Which represents a strengthening rather than a weakening of the
ID scheme. Here however the Committee was effectively arguing for a
strengthening, and as David Blunkett envisages the ID card and register as
becoming the key to everything, this is precisely the kind of "concession"
he wants to make. It does rationalise (as Denham put it) current government
database proposals in the sense that it makes them dependent on the NIR.
The databases themselves will continue to proliferate though.

It's possible that shoehorning CIP functionality into the ID scheme may
cause some delay to the ID scheme bill itself. Spy Blog points out
(http://www.spy.org.uk/spyblog/archives/000482.html) that if the CIP stage
2 feasibility study plans aren't to come (as Boateng said) before Ministers
until June 2005, they might knock the ID bill back beyond the next
election. It's possible the CIP study might be accelerated, but Gordon
Brown's Treasury might on the other hand not view it as a top priority. Or
worse. Spy also notes that the change will mean incorporating children
under 16 in the NIR, and raises the issue of the Children's Bill. This sets
up another universal database, of children this time, and will operate with
a number of other databases, including the NHS one and Connexions.

In its Home Affairs response the Home Office said that the "National
Programme for IT (NPfIT) is putting into place an infrastructure of card
readers across the NHS, which will facilitate the checking of cards" and
that in the case of the Connexions card readers, which are issued free to
schools and colleges, there may be "cost savings to be realised for
identity cards by exploiting the existing infrastructure." So some more
opportunities for rationalisation here, no doubt. .

Related stories

Blunkett sets out store on compulsory ID cards
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/27/blunkett_hac_response/)
Everything you never wanted to know about the UK ID card
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/05/complete_idcard_guide/)
Blunkett poised to open ID scheme offensive tomorrow
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/26/blunkett_prepares_hac_response/)
Home Office seeks spin doctor to sell cuddly ID card brand
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/13/id_marketeer_sought/)
UK ID cards to be issued with first biometric passports
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/11/new_passport_equals_new_id_card/)
Biometric gear to be deployed in hospitals and GPs' surgeries
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/29/blear_confirms_nhs_biometrics/)
UK gov pilots passenger tracking in fight against terror
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/29/project_semaphore/)
Tag, track, watch, analyse - UK goes mad on crime and terror IT
(http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/20/home_office_strategic_plan/)

) Copyright 2004

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 06:20:37 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:20:37 -0400
Subject: RFID in Passports Could Lead to Identity Theft
Message-ID: <p06110413bdaaa4e50be1@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/RFID-in-Passports-Could-Lead-to-Identity-Theft-37595.html>


CRM Buyer

 THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE
 FOR CRM SYSTEM PURCHASERS


RFID in Passports Could Lead to Identity Theft
By John Jerney
The Yomiuri Shimbun
 10/31/04 5:00 AM PT

Privacy advocates, by and large, are not against the idea of using a chip
in identity documents to store additional information. But many are asking
about the wisdom of including information that can be read remotely,
without the document holder being aware.

Personal privacy is fast becoming a thing of the past. And helping secure
its demise is a technology called Radio Frequency Identification (RFID).

I wrote about RFID systems a few months ago, at which time I proposed a
scenario in which these diminutive devices begin to appear in all sorts of
objects, ranging from currency, postal mail, and even our shoes and
clothing.

RFID systems typically consist of a small tag containing a microprocessor,
a small amount of memory, and an antenna. An RFID device communicates with
an external system using radio waves. These external systems can then, in
turn, be connected to networks of computers, enabling rather sophisticated
information processing of the collected data.

The core application of RFID systems is to enable the tracking of objects
and people. The beef industry, for example, was an early adopter of RFID
technology, using it to monitor the movement of cattle from grazing to
slaughter. Governments also are planning to use RFID, in this case to
monitor the movement of people by embedding RFID technology into our
principal systems of identification.

 Embedding in Passports

 The most recent news on this front came from the U.S. State Department,
which revealed that it would begin including RFID devices into all new
passports starting around the middle of next year.

The State Department says the idea is to make passports more difficult to
forge, and to ensure that the bearer of the document matches the
identification.

This means that each RFID device, in each passport, will contain at least
the name, address, and birthplace of the holder, along with a digital
photo. The first set of devices, equipped with 64 kilobyte, of memory, will
likely be capable of storing additional information, as required.

Immigration and border officials will no longer need to physically swipe
the document through a reader. Instead, since the RFID device uses radio
waves to communicate, the passport only needs to come within reasonable
proximity of a listening device in order for the information to be read.

And herein lies the chief problem, as identified by privacy advocates.
Without requiring the passport to be physically handled in order to
retrieve information, just about anyone will be able to read your passport
contents, remotely, and without your knowledge.

It all seems like a massive recipe for disaster.

 Abuse Opportunities

 Encryption could help the situation, slightly, but none of the data stored
on the RFID device in the proposed new U.S. passport will be scrambled,
either on the device itself or as it passes through the air.

Instead, the device will communicate a special digital signature
identifying it as an official government document.

Imagine the possibilities for abuse. As you walk through the main door,
hotels will immediately be able to determine your name, nationality, and
place of birth, beginning the profiling of guests even before reaching the
counter.

Sophisticated thieves, or even those less clever but with a few dollars to
spare on an RFID reader, will be able to comb crowds of people, searching
for individuals of a specific nationality or, by extension, those of a
particular religion.

Identity theft will become orders of magnitude easier, and stalkers at
overseas shops and boutiques will be able to quickly collect personal
information on targets of interest.

 Remote Access Concerns

 Privacy advocates, by and large, are not against the idea of using a chip
in identity documents to store additional information. But many are asking
about the wisdom of including information that can be read remotely,
without the document holder being aware.

Proponents of the new technology and security-minded individuals point out
that the RFID devices proposed for use in U.S. passports will be passive,
meaning without a self-contained power source, thereby restricting the
range through which information can be transmitted.

But that hardly addresses cases where people are either forced to pass
close to a reader, as when they are walking through a doorway to enter a
building, or when a reader is unknowingly brought close to them, as an
identity thief or stalker might do.

Once collected, the information can easily be processed and correlated
using any of a number of commercially available databases. The best-case
scenario is that enterprises will use this unknowingly mined information to
sell you additional services, based on existing marketing and behavioral
profiles.

More sinister scenarios could easily involve confidence schemes or other
serious trickery.

With the inclusion of RFID in passports, governments could turn to using
the system as a means of monitoring not only entry and exit, but also
movements within a country.

 Our Vulnerabilities Increase

 Today, so-called FastPass systems that enable motorists to speed through
tollbooths on highways and bridges are also being used in certain
metropolitan areas to monitor traffic patterns and automobile use, far from
the bridge or highway. Few motorists are aware of this additional use of an
otherwise helpful RFID system.

Interestingly, it's not really clear to me that the inclusion of RFID
devices will make passports that much harder to forge. The information on
each chip will remain unencrypted, making it straightforward to reverse
engineer.

In fact, as is often the case, our reliance and belief in advanced
technology may make us even more vulnerable to deception. Put another way,
the more we believe that technology is the answer to personal and national
security, the more we leave ourselves open to being fooled when those
systems are inevitably compromised.

Adding RFID technology to passports, and making the information available
unencrypted to anyone with a simple reader seems like folly on both sides
of the technology equation.

It's highly unlikely that it will contribute to our safety and security in
any meaningful way, and may instead open us to a new type of criminal, well
versed in the simple uses of high technology and ready to pounce on
unsuspecting travelers.

All you can ask is, what were they thinking?

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From bill.stewart at pobox.com  Sun Oct 31 12:03:08 2004
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:03:08 -0800
Subject: Osama's makeover
In-Reply-To: <418468B7.F7214786@cdc.gov>
References: <418468B7.F7214786@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20041031120106.0414f900@pop.idiom.com>

At 08:23 PM 10/30/2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>And did you see the wire up his back and the earpiece?
>
>Or maybe its hard to get good tailors in Pakistan.

Nah - he's allowed to use a Teleprompter,
unlike Bush and Kerry at the debate-o-mercials.

And unlike Bush, he can actually read.



----
Bill Stewart  bill.stewart at pobox.com 




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 08:20:20 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:20:20 -0400
Subject: Need for Draft Is Dismissed by Officials at Pentagon
Message-ID: <p06110430bdaac13db0a8@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/politics/31draft1.html?pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 31, 2004

Need for Draft Is Dismissed by Officials at Pentagon
By THOM SHANKER

ASHINGTON, Oct. 30 - Rumors of a secret plan to reinstate the draft are
churning across the Internet, worrying some in Congress and even coloring
the presidential campaign, but senior Pentagon personnel officials and Army
officers insist that there is no need for a draft - and that they do not
want one, either.

 To counter public fears that conscription is returning, these officials
produced internal studies to illustrate the economic and demographic
reasons why a draft is not necessary, and why it would be a step backward
for the quality of the current all-volunteer force.

Army and Pentagon officials hope that efforts under way to reorganize the
service to form at least 43 combat brigades from today's 33 will create
additional deployable units and alleviate the stress on the Army. And as
both the Air Force and Navy shrink their personnel rosters, some of those
departing personnel are being courted by the Army in a program that also
serves as antidote to the draft.

 If a decision is made that the American military should grow, then the
Pentagon could ask Congress to finance a permanent expansion in personnel,
including enough money to attract recruits and retain those in uniform
without undercutting accounts for operations and weapons systems.

Officials note that Congressional proposals for expanding the military,
mostly in the range of 30,000 to 40,000 more troops, would hardly require a
new draft to force conscripts from across the approximately
two-million-strong cohort of current 18-year-old Americans.

In fact, the demographics of America are cited by Pentagon officials as a
major reason why the draft makes no sense today.

The Pentagon's top personnel officer, David S. C. Chu, said the size of
today's military - 1.4 million in the active component, and 1.2 million in
the National Guard and Reserve - is a much smaller percentage of a much
larger pool of possible recruits than the United States faced during World
War II and into the 1950's.

And since the military could not possibly absorb all the 18-year-olds in
the population should a draft be reinstated, there is little doubt that a
system of deferrals would be established that, just as in the Vietnam era,
could create a caste-like system separating the privileged of America from
the others.

"What do you do when not all need to be called and only a few are chosen?"
said Mr. Chu, who is under secretary of defense for personnel and
readiness. "It becomes a question of fairness."

Today's high-technology military also benefits from personnel who are
committed to staying in the service for several years, allowing the armed
services to reap full benefit from their costly training. During the draft,
soldiers were required to stay in the service for only two years. But
Pentagon studies show that current recruits need one to three years to
reach full competency in combat or support skills.

A study by Mr. Chu's office makes that point in arguing against reinstating
a draft that was allowed to lapse on July 1, 1973.

"Draftees quit early; volunteers stay - so today's midgrade and senior
noncommissioned officers are well experienced," said the study, written by
Bill Carr, deputy under secretary for military personnel policy.

"During the most recent draft, 90 percent of conscripts quit after their
initial two-year hitch, whereas retention of volunteers is five times
better - about half remain after their initial (normally four-year)
military service obligation," said the study, which was published in the
spring 2004 edition of "World Defense Systems," a military journal.

Those statistics may not be persuasive to those who believe the United
States is poised for a broader array of offensive military operations
against other adversaries that would require a draft, nor to those who feel
that a program of required national service would benefit the nation and
America's 18-year-olds.

But senior officers stress that the all-volunteer military is also more
competent, better educated and more disciplined than in the final years of
the draft.

"I served in the draftee Army," said Gen. Richard A. Cody, who is now vice
chief of staff for the Army, the service most under stress from worldwide
deployments.

"Those soldiers were just as loyal as today," he said. "But it was like
Forrest Gump. You know, 'Life is like a box of chocolates.' With
conscripts, you never know what you're going to get."

General Cody said the strain to meet current global commitments cannot be
minimized - nor the strain to meet recruiting goals. But he said the young
men and women who signed up today were of a higher quality than any he had
seen in 29 years of command.

"I don't have rose-colored glasses on," General Cody said. "But we don't
need the draft and we don't want the draft. There are plenty of Americans
who still want to be in the military."

Perhaps the most often-cited reason for opposition to a draft is the
motivation of the all-volunteer force.

"The most important thing about a draft is that the people you draft, by
definition, don't all want to be there," Mr. Chu said. "The great strength
of the volunteer force is the ranks of people who all made a positive,
voluntary decision that this is what they want to do."

The current American military "is also smarter than the general population"
from which conscripts would be drawn, according to the study by Mr. Chu's
office. "Over 90 percent of new recruits have a high school diploma, while
only 75 percent of the American youth do; 67 percent score in the upper
half of the enlistment (math/verbal aptitude) test," it stated.

"These attributes translate to lower attrition, faster training and higher
performance," it concluded.

 Mr. Chu said that studies of the military also showed that the
all-volunteer force had fewer disciplinary problems than a draftee service.

 "All that comes together in the performance of the force in the field,
which is the ultimate test," Mr. Chu said. "How does this force fight? How
well does it carry out the nation's objectives? How disciplined is it in
the face of challenges? I don't think anyone can look at the events of the
three-plus years since 9/11 and not see the payoff in the volunteer force."

Copyrigh
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 08:37:01 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:37:01 -0400
Subject: Check This Out
Message-ID: <p06110426bdaab877a23f@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/opinion/01mon2.html?th=&pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 31, 2004
EDITORIAL

Check This Out
Never content to pass savings along to customers, banks - with a little
help from their friends in Congress - are again poised to turn a basic
service into a profit center.

 Last week, federal law began allowing banks greater latitude to process
checks electronically, reducing to minutes or hours the time it takes for
the money to be deducted from a check writer's account. But there is no
change in the length of time that banks can hold deposited checks before
making the funds available - up to two days for local checks, five days for
nonlocal checks and 11 days for checks over $5,000. So in addition to
saving an estimated $2 billion a year in paper processing costs, the banks
will make loads of money on the float.

And not just from that. By processing checks faster while placing holds on
deposits, banks are increasing the chances of bouncing a check. As banks
start using the new procedures, unsuspecting consumers will bounce an
estimated seven million more checks a month and pay an additional $170
million in monthly bounced-check fees. Worse yet, to promptly correct
problems that may arise from electronic processing, such as double payment
of a single check or payment in the wrong amount, the new rules require a
customer to present a copy of the check's electronic image, known as a
"substitute check." There's nothing to prevent a bank from charging a fee
for providing the copy.

Groups like Consumers Union and the Consumer Federation of America have
come out strongly against the law's lack of customer protection. The banks
should listen. At the least, banks that use the new electronic procedures
should adopt a no-hold policy for deposits by customers with problem-free
accounts. If the banks do not change their policies, the Federal Reserve
should force them to by changing the rules on fund availability. We would
also like to see a major bank step up and pledge to re-credit accounts
within 10 days of a customer's reporting an error, without the need for a
substitute check. That would, in effect, extend the same protection to
electronically processed checks that debit cards enjoy, as well as set a
standard of customer service for other banks to match.

 Banks do not have to gouge their customers just because the law permits it.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct 31 13:12:06 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:12:06 -0800
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
Message-ID: <41855526.39FC10C9@cdc.gov>

12:22 AM 10/31/04 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>Major Variola
>> The large pit of smoldering radioactive glass is probably not
>> an option..
>
>Why not?

They're called downwinders.  Which way do the winds blow in the middle
east?

>You keep assuming that Muslims unite, escalate, etc, but if
>they do, US will escalate also.

No, I assume you can nuke whereever you want, just because we can.
This is my take on your thesis that we are discussing.  Kicking hegemony

up a notch, finishing the job, let's roll...  It will get easier when a
US city
gets nuked.

The folks on the West coast might not like a few trillion curies in
their soup even
if we did get rid of the Indonesian Problem in the process.
Maybe they just need to suck it up,
ask not what their country can do for them, but how they can bend over
for it.
Childhood leukemia is getting easier to cure anyway.




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct 31 13:18:47 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:18:47 -0800
Subject: Osama's makeover
Message-ID: <418556B7.517A8E97@cdc.gov>

At 12:03 PM 10/31/04 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 08:23 PM 10/30/2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>>And did you see the wire up his back and the earpiece?
>>
>>Or maybe its hard to get good tailors in Pakistan.
>
>Nah - he's allowed to use a Teleprompter,
>unlike Bush and Kerry at the debate-o-mercials.
>
>And unlike Bush, he can actually read.

C'mon Bill, that's not fair.  Even Osama commented on how
Bush was making good progress on that book about the goats
in the school on 9/11.  How W didn't even want to put it down,
he enjoyed it so much.

His fine reading skills even got shown in Fahrenheight 911,
along with some amusing footage of his handlers,
and that's a documentary, so it must be true.




From camera_lumina at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 31 11:12:44 2004
From: camera_lumina at hotmail.com (Tyler Durden)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 14:12:44 -0500
Subject: Osama's makeover
Message-ID: <BAY24-F37N8yxdZjfNL000175f0@hotmail.com>

Yeah...wasn't there an X-Files that was similar? I remember someone picking 
up a photo of Sadam Hussein and the TLA-dude saying, "Him? He was a truck 
driver in Detroit we found."

Perhaps the reason Bush hasn't 'caught' bin Laden yet is because he thinks 
he (ie, Bush) will win the election. He does have Florida locked up...

-TD

>From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv at cdc.gov>
>To: "cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net" <cypherpunks at al-qaeda.net>
>Subject: Osama's makeover
>Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:23:19 -0700
>
>At 05:23 PM 10/30/04 -0700, John Young wrote:
>
> >Which returns to the Osama make-over. His nose looks
> >much bigger, longer and wider, eyes closer together. The
> >sage-of-the-desert color combination of his face and hands,
> >beard, robe, hat and backdrop look as if it was shot in
> >New Mexico, or maybe Israel pretending Lawrence of
> >Arabia remake.
>
>And did you see the wire up his back and the earpiece?
>
>Or maybe its hard to get good tailors in Pakistan.

_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/




From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Oct 31 16:34:58 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:34:58 -0800
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <41855526.39FC10C9@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <E1CONQ5-0000qO-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

There is a decreasing chance the US can apply its military
might to defeat an unconventional enemy. That kind of enemy
is not what long-standing military strategy and most tactics
are aimed at. Rumsfeld was hoping to revise that when yet
one more mighty military war appeared to head off changing
military policy.

The US has demonstrated in Afghanistan and post-Hussein
Iraq that it does not know how to fight unconventionally. That
inability appeared in Korea, then Viet Nam and has been shown
in every combat the US has engaged in since WW 2.

Military professionals know this and are hamstrung by the
narcotic dependency the defense industry and its beneficiaries
has for big iron and every bigger and more expensive platforms.
This has been coupled with gigantism in intelligence, big science
and big technological research advocated and overseen by giant
corporations and institutions. And to gloss this a huge spin
and propoganda machine has been funded to pump up the
threats and the hefty defense tax boondogling.

Special forces and operations were devised to piss-ant an alternative 
to this spread across the US pork-barrell behemothicism. But they 
have seldom been applied beyond pinprick displays, with much 
hoorahing about their stealthy effectiveness: "we can tell you about 
our successes, only failures make it to the media."

Commentators have noted the corrupting influence of empire
Britain thinking its global navy would assure continuance of
hegemony. The more that conceit was believed the weaker
the military became by its failure to recognize new forms of
warfare and new ways of thinking. That empire was undermined
by non-hegemonic forms of combat and thinking.

The US might get a bye with its arrogant belief in military might
for another generation if its lucky, if unlucky it will not survive this 
one. Well, parts of it may survive, away from the cities. Imagine
one of the few cypherpunks holed-up in northwest Utah and
one bunkered in Corralito escape the food-and-water-borne 
disease.

President Attila or May?




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 12:44:53 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:44:53 -0400
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <41855526.39FC10C9@cdc.gov>
References: <41855526.39FC10C9@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <p06110449bdaaff273400@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:12 PM -0800 10/31/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
> Which way do the winds blow in the middle
>east?

East of Jerusalem. :-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 12:55:37 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:55:37 -0400
Subject: Osama's makeover
In-Reply-To: <418556B7.517A8E97@cdc.gov>
References: <418556B7.517A8E97@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <p0611044abdaaff7e4856@[66.149.49.5]>

At 1:18 PM -0800 10/31/04, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
>>And unlike Bush, he can actually read.
>
>C'mon Bill, that's not fair.

You keep thinking that, Mr. Pox. That's just the way he likes it...

Cheers,
RAH
-------


<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/24/politics/campaign/24points.html?pagewanted=print&position=>

The New York Times

October 24, 2004
POLITICAL POINTS

Secret Weapon for Bush?
By JOHN TIERNEY


To Bush-bashers, it may be the most infuriating revelation yet from the
military records of the two presidential candidates: the young George W.
Bush probably had a higher I.Q. than did the young John Kerry.

 That, at least, is the conclusion of Steve Sailer, a conservative
columnist at the Web magazine Vdare.com and a veteran student of
presidential I.Q.'s. During the last presidential campaign Mr. Sailer
estimated from Mr. Bush's SAT score (1206) that his I.Q. was in the
mid-120's, about 10 points lower than Al Gore's.

 Mr. Kerry's SAT score is not known, but now Mr. Sailer has done a
comparison of the intelligence tests in the candidates' military records.
They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough
to make reasonable extrapolations.

Mr. Bush's score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test at age 22 again
suggests that his I.Q was the mid-120's, putting Mr. Bush in about the 95th
percentile of the population, according to Mr. Sailer. Mr. Kerry's I.Q. was
about 120, in the 91st percentile, according to Mr. Sailer's extrapolation
of his score at age 22 on the Navy Officer Qualification Test.

Linda Gottfredson, an I.Q. expert at the University of Delaware, called it
a creditable analysis said she was not surprised at the results or that so
many people had assumed that Mr. Kerry was smarter. "People will often be
misled into thinking someone is brighter if he says something complicated
they can't understand," Professor Gottfredson said.

 Many Americans still believe a report that began circulating on the
Internet three years ago, and was quoted in "Doonesbury," that Mr. Bush's
I.Q. was 91, the lowest of any modern American president. But that report
from the non-existent Lovenstein Institute turned out to be a hoax.

 You might expect Kerry campaign officials, who have worried that their
candidate's intellectual image turns off voters, to quickly rush out a
commercial trumpeting these new results, but for some reason they seem to
be resisting the temptation.

Upon hearing of their candidate's score, Michael Meehan, a spokesman for
the senator, said merely: "The true test is not where you start out in
life, but what you do with those God-given talents. John Kerry's 40 years
of public service puts him in the top percentile on that measure."
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah at ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From jya at pipeline.com  Sun Oct 31 17:21:16 2004
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:21:16 -0800
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <E1CONQ5-0000qO-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <41855526.39FC10C9@cdc.gov>
Message-ID: <E1COO8s-0004SN-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

To state the obvious to Major Variola, CDC will have first
indication of a devastating US attack, reported fragmentarily
under its links to hospitals, clinics and physicians, against 
which the might military and law enforcement have no defenses.

By time the attack is understood it will be too late to mount
a national defense. Food and water are the means and methods,
not the hardware and electronic infrastructure, seaports and
airports, so loudly warned about. The last terrorist attack is not
the next one.

Elderly and children first to show the signs. Those not watched
all that carefully by the big warfighters, indeed overlooked by
design, so disdainful are they of caregivers.




From jamesd at echeque.com  Sun Oct 31 21:09:31 2004
From: jamesd at echeque.com (James A. Donald)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:09:31 -0800
Subject: Winning still matters, etc...
In-Reply-To: <E1CONQ5-0000qO-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <E1CONQ5-0000qO-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <4185C50B.10904@echeque.com>

     --
John Young wrote:
 > There is a decreasing chance the US can apply its military might to
 > defeat an unconventional enemy. That kind of enemy is not what
 > long-standing military strategy and most tactics are aimed at.
 > Rumsfeld was hoping to revise that when yet one more mighty military
 > war appeared to head off changing military policy.

The US never intended to use its military might to defeat an
unconventional enemy.

It intended to use its military might in the entirely conventional way
to destroy or deter governments that foster terrorism, as was
accomplished very successfully in Afghanistan.

Regime change in Iraq was supposed to deter Syria and Iran, but they
have not in fact been deterred.  Saudi Arabia and Libya have been
deterred.  Indonesia has changed its policy on terror, but it is
unclear whether this was the result of the spectacle of Saddam and his
bullet ridden sons or honest soul searching.

     --digsig
          James A. Donald
      6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
      nVs3V7urdcH8GOjfhlNYzb0/JWqCDKupA3RE8WE3
      4YdwLgC/LWPMsXcHeSFlqJW/NrcK/eDjuprNNcJok




From mv at cdc.gov  Sun Oct 31 21:11:55 2004
From: mv at cdc.gov (Major Variola (ret))
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:11:55 -0800
Subject: The "plagues" are Mosaic asymmetric attacks, not biological
Message-ID: <4185C59B.38011E8@cdc.gov>

At 05:21 PM 10/31/04 -0800, John Young wrote:
>To state the obvious to Major Variola, CDC will have first
>indication of a devastating US attack, reported fragmentarily
>under its links to hospitals, clinics and physicians, against
>which the might military and law enforcement have no defenses.

You thought I meant bio plagues?!  Jeezus John, is your metaphorizer
broken?  Any
bio hazard is accidental, or Detrick, not Osama.  A *succession of
attacks against the Empire* is what I mean, alluding to the Jews
attacking
the Pharaoh, until he let them alone.    Pharoah=US, Moses=UBL,
Jews=Moslems.
Get your head around that one.

News:
The infectious biological "attack" will be an accident of the modularity

and recombination of influenza on some chinese duck/pig/human
farm.  It will not be intentional but it will kill a lot before the
vaccine
can be produced, which takes ca. 6 mos..  See 1918 pandemic,
and add jet airplanes.  A recent _Science_ article described
a model of this.  You are one or two days away from that duck/pig/human
incubator nowadays, no matter where you live.  That will happen,
but it won't be intentional.  The geopoli implications will be fun, but
UBL is not involved there.

Observation:
A non-infectious biological attack (eg anthrax which isn't
infectious) is cheap, but not Al Q's preferred MO.  They go
for the special effects type attacks, simultaneous so you
know its them.  (Otherwise it could be a suicical egyptian,
a rudder jerked too hard, a screw-jack improperly lubricated,
the NTSC is very creative.)

Of course the Ft Detrick folks enjoy sending
the occasional sporulated letter to senators, but hey, their funding was

running out, you do what you gotta do.

Implementation:
A chem attack is pretty nifty, and in many ways easier than
fission or RDDs.  Since there are so many chems moving
around, and rad sources are so easy to detect, by virtue of the
energy of the emissions, and controlled/surveilled materials.

A tanker into a school is double the fun,
its been years since Columbine, and the underbelly is itching
for a scratch.  (Again, you need to pull off 2 the same day.)
I wonder if there is a school that enrolls only
first born sons, that would be interesting to read about in your mosaic
er netscape er IE browser, eh?   Since your allusion-detector is broken,

"mosaic", get it?

History:
"Let my people go" and taking a beating only works if you have
wannabe-moral brits who want to divest anyway and your name is
Ghandi.  Otherwise the biblical plagues, aka asymmetric attack, approach
is
guaranteed to work in the limit.  All you need is enough popular
support.
Its there.

It only took 200 dead marines and one bomb
to evict us from Lebanon, maybe 50K corpses for S. Nam, don't know about

N Korea, but do the math.   .mil are disposable, but they have families
that
whine and vote.  And the press is not *entirely* 0wn3d by the .gov, yet.

Conclusion:
Again, the Mosaic approach of repeated asymmetric attacks on the Pharoah
is what Al Q
is up to.  Eventually the Pharoah/US gets fed up and says fuck it.
Maybe not this election, but eventually, and Al has time.  GW has only
4 more years, at best, and Rummy & Cheney are scheduled for a box in the
ground pretty
soon.  Wolfy has more time, but after a few more kilocorpses will lose
power with
Joe Sixpack and Joe's post-Bush "leader".

Operation Just Cause
Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I have to ignore
Egyptian/Hebrew history.
Just because I live here doesn't mean I don't think the US deserves the
treatment
that any Empire deserves.  Just because I'm an American doesn't mean I
can't use
sophisticated allusions.  Just because I say Mosaic Plagues doesn't mean
I'm
talking about frogs & locusts.  Dig?




From rah at shipwright.com  Sun Oct 31 18:43:31 2004
From: rah at shipwright.com (R.A. Hettinga)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:43:31 -0400
Subject: The Revolutionary
Message-ID: <p0611045abdab10ac4f05@[66.149.49.5]>

<http://www.keepmedia.com/jsp/article_detail_print.jsp>   

Esquire

The Revolutionary
Dick Cheney is the calmest man in the room. Too calm.

by Walter Russell Mead | Nov 01 '04

 He has many faces, all gray. He is a symphony in gray. He ranges the
spectrum from vanilla to colorless to dull. Even the pink of his lip and
the blue of his eyes are gray. As the Trojan horse for a contemporary
American revolution, he is magnificent, as radical behavior would be the
last thing suspected of someone who comports himself as he does. He is an
accident of history. He is a world-historic figure. He is the greatest
enigma in American public life. His name is Dick Cheney.


 1. The West Wing

 Portraits of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson-the country's first two
vice-presidents-gaze benignly past the cream-colored walls toward the
blue-carpeted floor. A copy of a Remington sculpture and a
nineteenth-century painting of the Grand Tetons add a hint of the West.

 Vice-President Cheney meets me at the door, shakes my hand, and shows me
to a seat in the half of his office furnished for guests.

 I think and write about U. S. foreign policy for a living at the Council
on Foreign Relations in New York. Before getting this far-my first contact
with the vice-president-I'd gone through months of screening. My latest
book had circulated among the vice-president's staff to determine whether
my political attitudes passed muster. Call me unaligned; there are days
when I can't decide whether to worry more about the Bush administration or
its critics.

 But I had come to the White House on a mission. This man, and this
administration, were wrecking my life. I wanted to know why.

 I hate the decision I'm being forced to make this November. I hate the
choices that the war on terrorism is imposing on us. The gravest threats of
an unimaginably difficult and challenging future are coming together with
some of the unhappiest unresolved conflicts in our national life, creating
a perfect political shit storm. I don't like the storm and I don't like the
choice. But the war is real, our divisions are real, and the choice isn't
going away.

 You can talk about Bush all you want, but for me the choice is not so much
either hating Bush or voting for him (or hating him  and  voting for him,
which quite a few people I know seem to be doing) but about the man in
whose office I was now sitting, the most powerful vice-president in history.

 In a very real sense, the Bush administration is a Cheney administration.
There are a lot of people-and a fair few are among my friends and
relations-who think of Dick Cheney much the way Captain Ahab thought of
Moby Dick. In poll after poll last summer, he scored the lowest approval
ratings of any of the four top national candidates. One poll showed that
four times as many people think he needs his teeth whitened as think John
Edwards does.

 That's not quite my beef with Dick Cheney. Rather, for virtually his
entire adult life, he's been engaged in the systematic destruction of what
I was raised to believe was progressive, decent, and forward-looking in the
United States of America. Now, with Cheney's determined backing, the Bush
administration had invaded Iraq in the teeth of world opinion, had stumbled
into an occupation for which it was clearly unprepared, and, whether you
looked at the Atlantic alliance or the United Nations, seemed to be
mounting an assault on what two generations of American statesmen had grown
accustomed to regarding as the fundamental principles of sound American
foreign policy. And they won't even tell us why they really did it. Their
stated reason-Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction-was patently
wrong. They had bigger and even better reasons for what they did, reasons
that would calm their critics if not win them over, but we are in the last
laps of an endless presidential campaign, and on this momentous subject
they remain mute. Ronald Reagan was the Great Communicator. George W. Bush
and Dick Cheney are as silent as the Sphinx.

 And so, how to make coherent what is incoherent-U. S. foreign policy in
the Bush years? The great question in America today is this: Are Cheney and
Bush the bearers of bad news who are adjusting American foreign policy to a
new and ugly reality, or are they themselves the bad news, making the world
more squalid and more dangerous as they mislead the country on a ruinous
course?

 You have to give Cheney credit: Although he sits in the eye of the
tremendous shit storm encircling the world, you will never find a calmer,
more rational guy.

 "Looking back on the last three years," I ask, "what would you say are the
administration's lessons learned from fighting the war on terrorism?"

 Looking a bit like Jeeves bringing his hangover remedy to Bertie Wooster,
Cheney deflects the question with reassuring blandness about the difficult
task.

 Cheney projects calm no matter what it is he is saying, which makes it
possible to miss the portent of things that come from his mouth, which is
of course the way he likes it. He'll tell you your house is on fire as if
he were complimenting you on your tie.

 He is also, I am told by those who love him, the funniest man in the room.
And while one's first thought might be that those must certainly be some
pretty bleak rooms, I have heard him crack wise. I once heard someone ask
him how he felt about being the one left to kneecap Senator Kerry, to make
the down-and-dirty attacks so the president can keep his hands clean.
"Well," he said, "I prefer to think of them as statesmanlike appraisals."
Dry chuckles all around. Or there was the line he got off at the Gridiron
Club this year, when he described his role in the Bush White House as being
"a dark, insidious force pushing Bush toward war and confrontation."

 Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told me that "he doesn't tell long
shaggy-dog jokes. He's got a quick sense of humor. And it's a  wry  sense
of humor with a nifty manner about it. He brought the situation room to
tears the other day. There was a terrible article in the press about
something that was going on in one of the departments. And he walked in and
sat down and made a comment about it and everyone just howled. And he was
late. And he walked in with his stack of papers, stuck them down on the
table. I can't remember what it was. I've got enough trouble doing my job
here without trying to remember humorous things Cheney said, but it was
just terrific."

 For thirty years, Cheney has traveled through Washington surrounded by
fog. Moderates-like his House of Representatives mentor and leader Bob
Michel-think he's a moderate. Mildly conservative but still somewhat
centrist Republicans like Bush 41 confidant and national-security advisor
Brent Scowcroft thought he was one of them-conservative, yes, but sensible
and prudent at the end of the day. Neoconservative intellectuals committed
to the global spread of democracy think he's a fellow traveler. And the
rabid fire-eaters from the fever swamps think he's one of them.

 Not that Cheney dissembles.  The Washington Post  once ran a story about
Congressman Cheney that gushed about what a moderate he was. Cheney
instructed someone in his office to call the paper to demand a correction.

 Five feet away from him, I behold this Trojan horse. What hair he's got is
gray; his physique is more Homer Simpson than Arnold Schwarzenegger. Bald
and gray is the right look for him, by the way; in old pictures with hair,
he somehow manages to look shifty. Now he seems like the old family lawyer.

 His body language is, well, there's not much. No chopping hands, no
pointing fingers, no scowls, and, except for the occasional dry snort of
amusement, no smiles or laughs.

 He's no war hero, either; he took five deferments during the Vietnam War
because he had "other priorities than military service." So he isn't a
stud, a hero, a charmer, an orator, or one of the boys.

 Even so, he's surrounded by his own fervent cult of fiercely loyal staff.
The only public figure I've ever met with a staff this devoted and this
good at insulating its principal from the world is Fidel Castro. Only when
you sit down with Fidel, he talks. Cheney mostly shimmers.

 But here we are now, speaking about the problems we face with Iran,
slowly, sagely, soporifically. Of course, Iran was now demonstrably what
Cheney had once called Iraq: an aborning nuclear power with ties to
terrorists. Nothing could have been more obvious or more clear as he
explained why Iran's quest for nuclear weapons represents a serious threat
to American interests and to our friends and allies. He spoke about his
hopes that a diplomatic solution can be found and praised the widespread
support of Iranians for a more democratic government and, presumably, a
more peaceful foreign policy.

 I'd asked a senior administration official whose views reflect the
vice-president's what we should do in the future if intelligence is suspect
or diplomacy fails and the mullahs go for the bomb. He shrugged and smiled.
"Of course I can't predict what would happen," he said. "But allowing
certain types of regimes to get their hands on nuclear weapons exposes you
to all kinds of unacceptable risks and dangers."

 Then he spoke the magic words: "At some point, you just have to do the
cautious and prudent thing."

 Ah, cautious and prudent-who wouldn't want to do that?

 Allow me to translate: The vice-president believes that there are
circumstances-not remote and unlikely circumstances, but possible and quite
conceivable circumstances-that could lead us toward war with yet another
nasty Middle Eastern regime.

 For many people, the "cautious and prudent" course would be to leave Iran
alone, avoid war, and try to work out some way of living with its bomb.
Russia has the bomb, China has the bomb; Israel, India, England, and
Pakistan have the bomb; we've even learned to live in a world where France
has the bomb. Why not do the "cautious and prudent" thing-and learn to live
with a nuclear Iran?

 A few days later, I spoke to former secretary of state George Shultz about
this principle, and he immediately understood and agreed. Tie goes to the
runner in those cases, Shultz says. That is, when you are facing unknown,
possibly grave dangers, and you really don't and perhaps can't know exactly
what to do, it is safer to act than to wait. It's a positively radical
idea, at the heart of George Bush's doctrine of preventative war. It is
precisely this kind of thinking that got the United States into Iraq. And
never before in our history, perhaps never before in the history of war and
peace, have  prudent  and  cautious  added up to  invade  .

 There's the rub. And Cheney is still quietly and calmly explaining that
it's the right thing to do. Worse still, I think I believe him.


 2. Don't ask about that

 TO GET FROM CHENEY'S suite in the West Wing to his staff quarters in the
Eisenhower Executive Office Building, you go downstairs past a small
gallery of photographs, including one of the vice-president on a couch on
Air Force Two  watching a bearded, captured Saddam Hussein on a flat-screen
TV.

 Then it's out onto a walkway across the White House lawn over to what,
during much of modern history, was the main building that held the
departments of state, war, and navy; today, it is just an annex for White
House overflow.

 As I followed Cheney's press secretary, Kevin Kellems, across the lawn, I
found myself thinking about my last visit to the EEOB. That was during the
Clinton years, and they seemed very far away. I had come because someone in
Madonna's entourage was toying with the idea of a Madonna concert in
Havana. The question was whether a concert like that could be staged under
a "cultural loophole" in the U. S. embargo against Cuba. It might be a
stretch, said the Clinton official I talked to. Madonna concerts, after
all, were just entertainment. If only I had come, the official lamented,
with a request for someone with a more substantive claim to cultural
status-like Bruce Springsteen.

 Ah, the old days.

 Kellems led me up to I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's office in what used to be
the assistant secretary of the Navy's office. This is the room from which
Teddy Roosevelt ordered the U. S. fleet toward Manila in preparation for
the Spanish-American War-and the room he left to take the Rough Riders up
San Juan Hill; it is the room in which Franklin Roosevelt worried that his
failure to serve in combat during World War I would doom his political
ambitions. In the anteroom is a desk that used to be in the White House.
Libby opened the drawer to show me where Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower
had scratched their names.

 As we settled into the Roosevelts' old office, Libby asked me what I
wanted to know. Libby is a slight, fit man with sandy hair and a penchant
for secrecy that rivals his boss's. Indeed, the vice-president's chief of
staff is known as Cheney's Cheney. He is courtly yet intense and is given
to saying, "Please, call me Scooter."

 Well, I said, like most Americans, I know well the actions taken by this
administration; I'm less clear on why. So I'm interested in the
vice-president's overall view of the world-how he sees our grand strategy
in the war on terrorism, how that fits in with his broader ideas about how
the world and the United States are changing.

 This was like farting in church. The sunny day seemed suddenly overcast
and the temperature in TR's old digs dropped 15 degrees.

 "That's a conversation stopper," he warned me. "Don't try it."

 In subsequent weeks and months, as I pursued the great white whale across
the United States, I would get this reaction quite a bit. "Never ask him
about his worldview," Kevin Kellems warned me. "He doesn't like to talk
about it."

 Aaron Friedberg, a Princeton professor and Cheney's deputy
national-security advisor, gave me the same advice. "Don't ask about his
worldview," Friedberg had warned me at the coffee shop across the street
from the EEOB, where Cheney staff members occasionally stop in for
quasi-confidential talks with the press. "He isn't comfortable with that
kind of conversation."

 People who've known him for years say that Cheney's not one to talk about
"deep philosophy." Alan Simpson, the former senator from Wyoming, just
laughed when I asked him about it. "Dick Cheney isn't interested in that
kind of crap," he said.


 3. What he doesn't say

 LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE who work on American foreign policy, I spend a fair
amount of time at home and abroad talking to foreigners about what we are
doing. Some of this is organized by the State Department, which brings
foreigners to the U. S. and sends Americans (of many different political
points of view) to help foreigners try to understand what the crazy
Americans are up to.

 Since September 11, I've made it my business to do as much of this as I
reasonably can.

 This experience has made me deeply aware of just how angry many of our
traditional friends are about American foreign policy in the Bush years.

 At home it's been more of the same. A few days after September 11, I began
getting hysterical e-mails from people who saw the attacks as a plot by
powerful corporations and interests to facilitate some kind of a military
coup in the United States. It was the kind of sick spew of half-baked
conspiracy theories, uninformed speculation, and paranoid fantasy that I
remembered, hazily, from the pot smoke of the Vietnam era. As an
eighteen-year-old, I had fallen for all kinds of silly theories about
American energy companies having designs on the allegedly huge oil deposits
off the Vietnamese coast, or the CIA's need for funds that could be
obtained only through control of the rich opium routes of the Golden
Triangle of Southeast Asia. Oh, and Nixon was planning to cancel the
elections, and the FBI was secretly building concentration camps to hold
the antiwar movement.

 I've watched as new fantasies have crept steadily toward mainstream
discourse. It's not just best-selling books in France saying that Bush was
behind September 11. It's an increasingly paranoid tone in American
political discourse as more and more people go off the deep end in
confusion and bitterness about the Bush administration's war policy.

 The return of Vietnam-era politics to American foreign policy can only end
in disaster from every point of view-especially at a time when the war we
are fighting, however ineptly, is a war of survival. We could always come
home from Vietnam; we don't have that option in the war against terrorism.

 The Bush administration's sometimes misleading, sometimes contradictory
stories about why it invaded Iraq have accelerated the rapid Vietnamization
of American politics. The war in Iraq in my judgment was both necessary and
just, but you would never know this from the conflicting, incoherent, and
inarticulate justifications that from time to time the administration has
produced. Combine the incoherence of the war rationale with the
catastrophic failures of policy in the aftermath of the military victory
and it is easy to see why so many patriotic people have found themselves
sinking into quagmires of conspiracy thinking and why an antiwar movement
has grown up so quickly.

 I frankly would have hoped and expected that Cheney and Rumsfeld, who
served in the Nixon and Ford administrations, when Vietnam-era bitterness
reached its poisonous apogee, would have understood the importance of, as
far as they could, preventing or at least slowing the rise of a similar
political movement today. An America divided is an America weakened, and we
are deeply and painfully divided today.

 As I traveled into the American heartland to watch Cheney perform on the
hustings, I was looking for signs that the administration was coming to
grips with its failure to communicate and hoping that by leveling with the
people it would begin to restore trust and consensus.

 At a "town hall" meeting in a convention center in Joplin, Missouri, to
which only identified supporters had been invited to ask "questions,"
Cheney gave as close to a full and comprehensive review of administration
war policy as I'd yet heard in public.

 He started by setting out the state of the world when he and Bush took
office. On January 20, 2001, Cheney said, "the planning for the attack of
9/11 was already well under way." The terrorists had been recruited and
trained. The money was raised; the attack was planned. The Taliban had
turned Afghanistan into a vast safe haven for Al Qaeda and others. Twenty
thousand terrorists had already been trained.

 In Iraq, Cheney charged, Saddam Hussein was also providing a safe haven
for terrorists. He was paying $25,000 to families of suicide bombers. In
the past, he'd produced and used weapons of mass destruction and had booted
the UN inspectors out of his country.

 A nuclear bazaar was operating out of Pakistan. Muammar Qaddafi was
spending "millions of dollars" to get nuclear weapons.

 Beyond all that, terrorists had come to the conclusion that using force
against the United States got results. Going back to Ronald Reagan's
withdrawal from Beirut in 1983 after 241 marines died in an attack on their
barracks, Cheney ran down a list of attacks on U. S. targets that were met
with mild or ineffective responses-or with changes in U. S. policy that
suited the goals of the terrorists.

 That, he argued, was where things were when they took over. Since then,
they'd overthrown the Taliban, scattered Al Qaeda, jailed Saddam Hussein,
closed down the Pakistani nuclear bazaar, and put Libya out of the nuclear
business. Borrowing a phrase Churchill used in World War II, Cheney said
that we hadn't reached the beginning of the end, but perhaps were coming to
the end of the beginning of the war.

 Not surprisingly, this worked for the Republican crowd in Missouri. To
give him full credit, Cheney spoke without the condescension that creeps
into the voices of so many politicians when they speak to a wide audience.
The Cheney I saw on the platform in Joplin looked and sounded exactly the
same as the one I saw in his private office in the West Wing.

 In an age of image consultants and hair fluffers, there's a certain
discreet charm to a politician who comes across as if he were just sitting
in your living room. Cheney has a solidly middle-class background and still
looks and sounds like one of the neighbors. He famously drove a beat-up VW
Bug while working in the Ford administration; after the defeated Ford left
Washington, the story goes, Dick and Lynne Cheney drove the Bug to
McDonald's for a hamburger.


 BUT AS THEY USED TO SAY say about Chinese food, half an hour later you're
hungry again. A partisan crowd might lap it up, but there isn't much there
for the skeptic or even for the open-minded swing voter. There are some
basic and obvious questions that Cheney didn't even try to address: Could
we have gained more allies in Iraq if we had moved more slowly and
deliberately toward war? If invading Iraq was the right decision, what
about the difficulties of the occupation? Should there have been more
"boots on the ground" in the beginning to establish security before the
insurgency got off the ground? Rather than disbanding the Iraqi army,
should we have tried to turn at least some of it into the nucleus of the
security forces of the new Iraqi government? And-even assuming its basic
policies were right-why was the administration doing such a poor job at
winning hearts and minds, not only in France, not only in the Muslim world,
but virtually everywhere in the world?

 And what did Cheney's silence on these topics mean? Had the administration
not really thought about these problems or learned anything from its
experience in the terror war? In that case, would another four-year mandate
mean more of the same?

 We then got back into the press SUVs for the motorcade out to the airport.
Past a scattering of protesters-Halliburton, falling wages, war in Iraq,
that sort of thing-we then clambered onto  Air Force Two.

 In Battle Creek, Michigan, and again in Dayton, Ohio, I watched with
diminishing hope as Cheney continued to utter slogans-often slogans I agree
with-but without performing what I remain naive enough to believe is an
essential task of a national leader in wartime: giving the public a serious
and thoughtful exposition of the country's policies in a time of great
danger.

 In Battle Creek, the motorcade took us past protesters into the back lot
of a local high school, and we walked through the industrial-shop classroom
into a gym with bunting and flags-not all that different from a pep rally,
except that most of the crowd hadn't seen a high school classroom in twenty
years.

 Cheney came out on the stage and greeted the partisan, cheering crowd.
"This is not an enemy we can reason with, or negotiate with, or appease,"
he said. "This is, to put it simply, an enemy that we must destroy."
Applause.

 "President Bush will never seek a permission slip to defend the United
States." The only line that gets more applause than that trope is Cheney's
courageous defense of the Pledge of Allegiance: "We believe that our nation
is one nation under God, and we believe that Americans ought to be able to
say 'under God' when they pledge allegiance to their flag."

 The next morning in Dayton, Cheney attacked Senator Kerry for proposing
that the U. S. should adopt a more "sensitive" war strategy against Al
Qaeda. "President Lincoln and General Grant did not wage sensitive
warfare," he said. "Nor did President Roosevelt, nor Generals Eisenhower
and MacArthur. . . . The men who beheaded Daniel Pearl and Paul Johnson
will not be impressed by our sensitivity."

 The sound bite made the national news that night, and the talking heads
tut-tutted over whether this was a fair attack or an unfair attack. In
context, the Kerry quote was about being sensitive to our allies and
neutral opinion, not going soft on Al Qaeda, but by the time Cheney's
through with him, it sounds as if Kerry wants to coddle Al Qaeda the way
liberal Democrats used to be accused by Lee Atwater of coddling criminals:
Willie Al-Horton.

 Yet there's a more substantive point as well. Cheney is a military-history
buff and is very well read on the U. S. Civil War. Lincoln made a lot of
mistakes in that war. There were times when things looked very bleak for
the United States. International public opinion was on the side of the
South. Enormous scandals rocked the government, analysts and pundits
blasted Lincoln's administration, and even his allies sometimes despaired.

 But Lincoln knew that he had to hold on, to fight the war through thick
and thin, to engage the enemy and grind him down with the North's superior
numbers and wealth. In Grant he found the general who could fight this kind
of warfare: ugly, costly, and at times ruinously unpopular.

 Cheney sees this kind of persistence as the essential quality of wartime
leadership. I don't think he's wrong. Churchill, too, was a leader who saw
the essential logic of the fight against Hitler and was willing to follow
it wherever it led-to the alliance with Bolshevik Russia, which he hated
with every fiber of his being; to the destruction of the British Empire,
which he had dedicated his life to preserving; to the very gates of hell.

 Suppose that the invasion of Iraq  was  a blunder, goes this quiet,
unspoken argument. Yes, the news from Iraq is bad. And yes, it is the Bush
administration's fault. Well, Lincoln made one blunder after another.
Churchill failed in Norway, failed in France, failed in Yugoslavia, failed
in Crete, failed in Singapore. And he won the war. You cannot ask a leader
to be infallible or ever-victorious in a real war. You can only ask him to
persevere.

 Lincoln, Churchill, and Grant: I don't think Cheney invokes them just to
drop names. These are clues to the kind of world he believes we live in and
to the war of survival he believes we must fight. These names are a measure
of the stakes he sees, of the risks he will run, the price he will pay, the
suffering and damage he is willing to sustain and inflict.

 But as much as Cheney and Bush might like to compare themselves to
Churchill, the real problem isn't that they are excessively Churchillian;
it's that they aren't Churchillian enough. Churchill believed that the
united will of the British people to fight was the secret weapon that would
win the war, and preserving and toughening that united will was the course
that he took. His wartime speeches acknowledged defeats and setbacks.
Unpleasant facts were frankly stated and faced. He earned the trust of a
people at war by voicing their doubts even as he stoked their resolve.

 Dick Cheney is not going to spellbind like Winston Churchill, nor should
he try. But read Grant's memoirs; there is a plainspoken American way of
laying out the remorseless logic of necessary war.

 Scoring rhetorical points against an opponent is okay; reducing complex
arguments to sound bites is also okay. But what we see in the
administration's communication strategy is tactical brilliance unhinged
from any strategic vision of the long-term requirements of the war-just as
its conduct of the war on terrorism in the field often seems to be
strategically brilliant but tactically weak. In both cases, the result is
too often summed up by a phrase that Colin Powell said to me last spring to
describe the result of the invasion of Iraq, one that by August had been
picked up by the president: catastrophic success.


 4. Cheney's Cheney

 THERE'S A BLUE mountain bike leaning against the desk in Scooter Libby's
waiting room; GOP-friendly publications like  The Weekly Standard  and
National Review  lie scattered on the tabletops. You can also find an
occasional copy of  People  .

 As we sit down at Scooter's conference table, I put the tape recorder down
and edge it closer as Scooter greets me in a quiet voice, drowned out by
the rumble of a nearby air conditioner. Why hasn't the administration been
more forthcoming with a fuller and more convincing argument for its
policies? I ask.

 Scooter smiles demurely. I don't know the answer to your question, he
says. When nice people like you bother to come talk to small little old
insignificant people like me, then we try and make the argument.

 With the battered air of someone who knows it won't do any good, Scooter
then reminds me of all the terrible things that war critics predicted but
that didn't happen in Iraq: the siege of Baghdad that was going to turn
into a new Battle of Stalingrad with thousands of U. S. combat deaths, the
civil war between Kurds and Arabs, the millions of refugees, the collapse
of moderate governments around the Arab world, the rush of Shiite Iraqis
into the arms of the Iranian mullahs. All of it predicted, none of it
happened-but none of it matters now. The failure to find WMD and the
president's proclamation of "Mission Accomplished" on the USS  Abraham
Lincoln  have forever marked neocon Iraq policy as a "miscalculation."

 Outside Scooter's office, a loud drone resolved itself into the
whup-whup-whup  of a helicopter landing nearby. "I guess the president
decided to drop in to see you, Walter," Kellems shouted.

 But what were the real reasons for going into Iraq? I'd asked a senior
administration official.

 There were two basic reasons, the official said. "One was to be rid of the
Saddam Hussein regime, whose defiance of the world community had multiple
consequences-not the least of which were very bad consequences for America
at the strategic level."

 The other was containment. Most people who opposed the war argued that
containment was working, that, as the phrase went, "Saddam was in his box."
"The containment of Saddam, while not as costly in the short term as war,
was still a very costly endeavor. It cost money, obviously. But that was a
small part of it.

 "It resulted in large American forces being stationed in Saudi Arabia. It
resulted in a very bad message to the world, including to Islamic
terrorists, that America and the world could be defied successfully. It
advanced the radicalization of certain Saudis and the glorification of
Saddam. Every day he succeeded in flouting us was another day in which the
message to the Islamic world would be that America could be defied."

 And the connection between containment and Al Qaeda? I asked. Between our
Iraq policy and September 11?

 The official pointed out fatwas from Osama that cited the effects of
sanctions on Iraqi children and the presence of U. S. troops as a sacrilege
that justified his jihad. In a real sense, September 11 was part of the
cost of containing Saddam. No containment, no U. S. troops in Saudi Arabia.
No U. S. troops there, then bin Laden might still be redecorating mosques
and boring friends with stories of his mujahideen days in the Khyber Pass.

 As it was, the administration took what looked like the path of least
resistance in making its public case for the war: WMD and intelligence
links with Al Qaeda. If the public read too much into those links and
thought Saddam had a hand in September 11, so much the better.

 This must have looked good at the time, but the failure to find WMD and
the insurgency in Iraq have brutally exposed the political miscalculation
in the administration's strategy.

 Suppose the administration had taken on the tougher job of laying out the
full strategic case for the war: that Saddam's refusal to implement the
cease-fire agreement was endangering the United States and its allies, and
that the United States would act to enforce full compliance with the
cease-fire. Saddam's persistent obstruction and ultimate expulsion of
weapons inspectors would be one of the items on the charge sheet, but not
the only one. Not everyone in the United States or abroad would have
accepted this case or agreed with the president's decision for war if
coercive diplomacy failed, but we would clearly be in better shape today if
the administration had done more to put the full range of its views on the
table.

 Again, this is the way Winston Churchill would have done it. When the
French capitulated to the Germans in 1940, Churchill realized that the
French government had broken its pledge to Britain that it would keep its
fleet out of German hands. Add France's naval strength to Germany's and
Hitler was within striking distance of the naval superiority that would
have enabled him to invade Britain. Churchill determined on a preventative
attack; French ships could turn themselves over to Britain, sink
themselves, or be sunk by the British.

 Churchill did what he had to do, but he also stated his purpose and his
reasoning openly and clearly. He did not hype his case-he didn't fluff up
evidence to say that Hitler was an imminent threat to integrate the ships
into the German navy. He confined himself to the facts, and the case he
made in public was essentially the case he made in the secret deliberations
of the war cabinet. As a wartime prime minister, Churchill won and kept the
trust of British, allied, and, ultimately, most neutral public opinion
during a long and deadly war marked (as all wars must be) by its fair share
of failures, blunders, deceptions, and tough moral choices that, judged by
the calmer and higher standards of peacetime, looked dubious at best.

 Bush and Cheney chose another path, and we are all living with the
consequences.


 5. Tough Town...

 "FUCKING CRAZIES" is what Secretary of State Colin Powell is said to have
called the Cheney camp in a 2002 phone call to Jack Straw, the British
foreign secretary, as the administration pushed for an early war in Iraq.

 And while it seems objectively true that neither is likely to be high on
the other's Christmas list, Powell has never lost his broad sympathy for
much of what the Bush administration has accomplished.

 "We stopped a friggin' war!" a senior State Department official bellowed
into my phone when I asked about what American foreign policy had
accomplished in the Bush years-referring to American mediation of the
crisis between India and Pakistan, when intelligence analysts (for what
that's worth, I'm compelled to add after the Iraq WMD fiasco) thought
nuclear war was less than a week away.

 Officials also run down a list of great powers with whom the Bush
administration has enjoyed stable and businesslike relations: China,
Russia, India, and Japan. France and Germany aren't on that list-which may
say something about how the Bush administration defines "great powers."
When Secretary Powell is asked about administration miscalculations in
Iraq, he is blunt. "We did the right thing at the right place and the right
time," he says about the invasion, but admits that the administration
miscalculated the difficulty of achieving its goals in Iraq. The
insurgency, he concedes, is not under control, and the Pentagon has been
forced to increase troop deployments beyond its original plans.

 From a State Department point of view, the biggest miscalculation was the
failure in postwar Iraq. The State Department had a cadre of experts who
worked on a detailed plan for the occupation, but the White House was
steadfast. Nobody who wasn't what one official called a "true believer,"
nobody who wouldn't drink the Kool-Aid that Ahmad Chalabi was serving up,
was allowed to play a major role in the postwar planning.

 This meant that, among other things, the Coalition Provisional Authority
had a weak plan and a thin team when it woke up one morning as the
government of Iraq. I saw this myself in Amman, Jordan, last spring, when I
spent the evening with a group of CPA officials-young, bright, and in jobs
way too big for them. Kids fresh out of grad school who, if they were in
Washington, would be interning and making copies were running major
programs for a country whose history they knew nothing about and whose
language they didn't speak. The CPA did not remake Iraq.

 The State Department official I spoke with notes with some satisfaction
that Iraq policy is now back in the hands of the institutions and
bureaucracies that, whatever their faults, have the resources to plan and
administer large-scale efforts.

 Interestingly, the one question about Cheney to which I could never get a
clear answer was whether he had a direct role in supporting Chalabi-the
now-discredited figure whom neoconservatives had plugged for years as the
answer to America's question of who could and should replace Saddam.

 "Since Chalabi lost some of his luster, it's amazing how many people
really never met him," the State Department official says. "Well, maybe
once or twice. He's been airbrushed out of a lot of pictures. I know. Tough
town, my friend."


 OF COURSE, listening to the State Department has not always been the best
way to predict what the Bush administration will do. I decide to go find
out what the rest of the war Cabinet thinks about lessons learned and what
they can mean for the future. There's nobody better to start with than Paul
Wolfowitz, former protigi of Dick Cheney, former boss of Scooter Libby, and
currently serving as deputy secretary of defense in Donald Rumsfeld's
Pentagon.

 Wolfowitz is probably the most hated person I've ever met. In much of the
Arab world, he's so symbolic of what many see as the Jewish control of
American foreign policy that I've taken to using him in my lectures there.
I point out that George Soros has been identified by former Malaysian prime
minister Mahathir Mohamad as the leader of the worldwide Jewish plot to
keep Muslims down. And Paul Wolfowitz, I tell my Arab audiences, is of
course widely seen as the Jewish evil genius behind Bush-administration
policy in the Middle East. And yet George Soros is so angry with Paul
Wolfowitz's foreign policy that he's spending millions of dollars to drive
Bush, and therefore Wolfowitz, out of office.

 So even if we imagine that America is run by the Jews, there are at least
two Jewish conspiracies.

 I don't know what's more frightening: that in the year 2004 we have to use
arguments like this at all; that in most of the places where I've given
this talk, the idea that American Jews aren't an organized, controlling
bloc with a single agenda is new; that many of the people who think
American foreign policy is a Jewish plot are professional diplomats; or
that I'm starting to have to make some of these points to European as well
as Arab audiences.

 In person, Wolfowitz is a perfectly calm and friendly guy. He looks and
sounds much more like a kindly professor of international relations than an
evil genius heading a Jewish clique determined to plunge the world into
misery and destruction.

 Wolfowitz has bent under these blows, but he's still unbowed. "I've still
got the scars," he says of the negative press coverage he's received as the
insurgency has gained strength. But he's still hopeful "that eight months
from now, a year from now, you have a situation in Iraq where Iraqis have
largely taken charge."

 When I ask him about where the administration is headed, he goes back to
the late 1940s and to Democrats like George Marshall and Dean Acheson who
laid the foundations of what became the bipartisan consensus for the cold
war. He reminds me that Acheson decided to be "clearer than truth" in
explaining the communist menace to the American people and points out that
this era, which we now think of as characterized by bipartisan consensus,
was actually a bitter and divisive time-featuring Joe McCarthy, for one
thing.

 But it's clear enough that Wolfowitz, widely regarded as the scariest
neocon this side of Richard Perle, is spending real time thinking about
consensus building in foreign policy. That was not a prominent
neoconservative theme before Iraq.

 When Wolfowitz looks ahead to a Bush second term, he sees a return to the
Middle East peace process. "We were on the verge, I think, last May, with
that Sharm al-Sheikh meeting, of really starting to make some breakthroughs
. . . and you could almost feel it slipping away as the situation in Iraq
got more difficult."

 Even as this reminds me how expensive the war has been, it's reassuring.
Serious moves by the Bush administration on the Arab-Israeli front would do
more than any other single step to rebuild relations in Europe and in parts
of the Middle East.

 I take advantage of my time with Wolfowitz to learn more about Cheney.
Wolfowitz had worked for Cheney in the Defense Department back under Bush
41. And unlike Cheney, "Wolfie," as he's affectionately known, is
comfortable having conversations on the dreaded worldview question. So I
ask him: Is Cheney a neocon?

 It's a question that's debated in Washington, as the war in Iraq is seen
as a brainchild of the neocons. Wolfowitz thinks for a minute. "No," he
says. "Cheney can't be a neocon. He isn't Jewish."

 There's an interesting subtext to this line. The rap about Jewish
intellectuals in Wasp circles a generation or so ago was that Jews were
bright but "too ideological." They allegedly valued theory over practice,
consistency over efficiency. They took good ideas and carried them "too
far"; they learned their statesmanship from books and professors rather
than at their grandfathers' knees. There's a whiff of that old fault line
in the Bush administration today; especially after Iraq, you can sense a
recoil from following the full neocon logic to its furthest and hardest
conclusions.

 Seriously, though, I say to Wolfowitz. Is Cheney a neocon?

 Again, Wolfowitz thinks. "Not really," he says finally, "though he has
moved in that direction."

 I would get almost exactly the same answer from William Kristol, neocon
editor of  The Weekly Standard  .

 For both Kristol and Wolfowitz, Cheney is at heart a realist. That is,
Cheney is more concerned about things like the national interest than
abstract ideas like democracy. Spreading democracy might be good in itself,
and it might also be good for American power, but Cheney was more likely to
start from the position of wanting to defend and advance American power
than wanting to defend and advance democracy worldwide.

 Cheney is a realist, and the neocons themselves are feeling a little
chastened. Rebuilding a domestic consensus and reviving the peace process
stand high on Wolfowitz's agenda. This is progress.


 NEXT ON MY LIST comes Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the man who
brought Dick Cheney into government in 1969. Rumsfeld, too, seems to be
singing out of the multilateral hymnbook these days. "There are an awful
lot of things the United States can't do alone that we simply have to have
the cooperation of other countries on," he tells me.

 The Defense Department is engaged in a review of post-hostility efforts,
and Rumsfeld says it is clear that successful post-hostility policy
"requires all elements of government cooperating." This was not DOD policy
in the Chalabi era.

 And when it comes to questions of grand strategy in the war on terrorism,
Rumsfeld again sounds very much in the American mainstream. Pet
conservative causes of the 1990s, such as abolishing the United States
Information Agency and substantially downgrading our efforts in public
diplomacy, now look like mistakes to him. Rumsfeld wants to revive the USIA
to make America's case more effectively abroad. And like Wolfowitz, like
Libby, like Powell, Rumsfeld these days is looking back to the early years
of the cold war for how to develop strategies and political support for a
long struggle in which ideology could count as much as military strength.
In the Pentagon these days, this war is looking more like the cold war than
like World War II.

 Rumsfeld makes a point about Cheney's conservatism. "I don't know that
he's that conservative," he says. "I never thought of him as being
particularly conservative. He's kind of a western Republican. His views and
his positions are more rooted in understanding our country and the people
of our country than in any theoretical underpinning."

 So: the Pentagon has gone soft and the war Cabinet is retreating to the
center?

 Not quite.

 On the need for preemptive war, Rumsfeld isn't giving an inch. What about
the fact that our intelligence was faulty in Iraq? I ask. Does that mean we
need to hold back on the use of force?

 Not at all, Rumsfeld says. The combination of unreliable intelligence and
the danger of WMD could lower, not raise, the threshold for preemptive war.

 "If someone is threatening you with a snowball," Rumsfeld says, "you can
afford to think he won't throw it and take the hit if you're wrong. No
great loss.

 "But if you start thinking about the potential of biological weapons, if
you take the hit, you could affect tens of thousands of people, and you
could have that run down through another generation or two."

 As Cheney might put it, at some point you have to do the cautious and
prudent thing.


 THERE ARE SOME who look at these facts and hope that the Cheney Revolution
in American foreign policy has burned itself out-that the neocons had their
tail feathers scorched in Iraq and won't be flying so high in the future.
Cheneyism was tried, and it failed. W.'s second term will look more like
his father's first.

 That's not how I read it. Cheneyism as an approach to post-cold-war
American foreign policy was first articulated in a 1992 draft of a
national-defense review paper that shocked many readers in the U. S. and
abroad with a call for the U. S. to deter other countries, even its allies,
from ever challenging American military supremacy. The outcry was so great
that the paper was disavowed and a sanitized version appeared in the waning
days of the first Bush administration.

 The famous National Security Strategy document of 2002 is a direct
intellectual descendent of that earlier paper. That document contains both
sides of Cheney's agenda: unchallengeable and untrammeled American
strength-including preemptive war-and the kinder, gentler words about
cooperating with allies and working in multilateral institutions.

 The confusion and tension between the traditional and radical elements in
Cheneyism reflect the confusion and tension most Americans feel as we look
at the war on terrorism. On the one hand, we know that we need the help of
others to defeat this enemy, and that we somehow need to win over the
hearts and minds of the Muslim world, especially, to stop the growth of
terrorist ideology. On the other hand, we want the president to take any
military steps necessary to protect us from our enemies-and we don't rule
out anything against people who want to use dirty bombs or biological
weapons in our cities. We want to be loved-but 64 percent of us are willing
to use torture in some cases if that's what it takes.

 This tension in Cheney's worldview is our tension. If Cheneyism doesn't
cohere, it is because we live in an incoherent time.


 6. The Cheney Era

 BRENT SCOWCROFT, who was George Herbert Walker Bush's national-security
advisor, told me a story about the vice-president that reminded me just how
unlikely this Cheney era has been. We all remember that in 2000 Cheney was
asked to pick the perfect running mate for Governor Bush. An
elder-statesman role. And of course we all know that after his exhaustive
search, Cheney said, Governor, I have found him, and he is me.

 Scowcroft says that when Cheney joined Halliburton in the nineties, he
thought he was leaving public life for good. "I'm convinced he made a
strategic decision," Scowcroft says. "He turned his back on government, and
he decided he was in a new career. I saw him at a panel discussion held at
the Bush Library in the late nineties. It was crystal clear that he wasn't
following foreign policy closely. He had turned his sights to a different
career and thrown himself into it, and I don't think he had any intention
when Bush asked him to look for a vice-presidential candidate to end up
with the job."

 Now, no American vice-president has ever had anything like Cheney's power,
and no one in the government knows as much about American foreign policy
and how it is made as Cheney does. For an accidental vice-president,
Cheney's behavior has been radical and his impact profound.

 And yet, as I watch him fielding questions from the daily press in a swirl
of aides, he's the calmest man in the room.

 The vice-president is in a back room at a convention center in Dayton,
Ohio, where he's just finished delivering a slashing attack on John Kerry.
The speech was vintage Cheney: defining the differences between the tough
leadership and clear stands that the country needs and the indecisive
waffling of his despicable opponents. Nuance is just a fancy French word
for flip-flop. And as for the war in Iraq: The danger from Saddam's WMD
program and his ties to Al Qaeda left us no choice. Cheney has been
criticized over and over by the national press for this defense of the Iraq
war-especially the links to Al Qaeda, which neither the 9/11 Commission nor
anyone else thinks are as strong as Cheney insists they are. But he's got
his story and he's sticking to it.

 And as he sits next to his wife at a small table in a room crowded with
staffers and daughter Liz carrying her four-week-old baby in a basket, he
looks somewhat vital.

 The cast-iron certainty has been that a second term would be the end for
him, but as we now know, this man is capable of upending cast-iron
certainties by the score. Let Bush win in November and by, say, 2006,
Cheney might start to think that his stented heart is feeling better, and
maybe he's ready for the big job. The urgency of the task facing America as
he sees it is not likely to lessen in four years, and who better to carry
on the work than the man who has been the principal author for the entire
post-9/11 era? After all, he is only three years older than John Kerry.
Bush might give him the  dedazo  , as the Mexicans call the blessing a
retiring president gives the designated heir. Members of the Bush family
are mindful that the country might not be dynastically inclined, thus
freezing brother Jeb out in 2008. A caretaker Cheney presidency, goes this
thinking, would keep the seat warm for Jeb and prevent somebody else from
remaking the Republican party in the meantime.

 As he finished his speech, I realized that he made no reference to the
dramatic military events of the day, with U. S. forces on the brink of
assaulting the holiest shrine in Shiite Islam during its confrontation with
the Mahdi militia.

 It was stunning. Clearly the campaign is moving down a scripted and
predetermined path, and responding to the uncertainty and concern many
Americans feel in response to historic events in the war isn't part of the
script. The look crossing the vice-president's face spoke loudly: This is a
campaign rally. Who in his right mind would bring bad news to these good
people?

 And so as my time with the war Cabinet comes to an end, I'm afraid that
they've missed the most important lesson of all.

 "Never, never, never," Winston Churchill once wrote, "believe any war will
be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can
measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who
yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no
longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and
uncontrollable events."

 Those who take a democracy to war must build the kind of support that can
see them through the setbacks and disasters that must inevitably come. If
it's your war, you must embrace it, good and bad. And you owe it to the
people to explain yourself. This the Bush administration has not yet
learned to do, and the consequences could be severe.

 Meanwhile, a few feet away, Vice-President Cheney speaks in the flat calm
that is his authority. And we are put at ease.



-- 
-----------------
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The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
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"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'