[saga-rg] job states...

[Thilo Kielmann]

Curious question:

SAGA should align job states with both BES and DRMAA ?
Are they the same to begin with?

Thilo

On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 03:54:16AM +0100, Andre Merzky wrote:
> X-Original-To: kielmann at localhost
> Delivered-To: kielmann at localhost.cs.vu.nl
> Delivered-To: grdfm-saga-rg-outgoing at mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
> X-Original-To: grdfm-saga-rg at mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
> Delivered-To: grdfm-saga-rg at mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 03:54:16 +0100
> From: Andre Merzky <andre at merzky.net>
> To: Christopher Smith <csmith at platform.com>
> Cc: Andre Merzky <andre at merzky.net>,
> 	Simple API for Grid Applications WG <saga-rg at ggf.org>
> Subject: Re: [saga-rg] job states...
> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at mailbouncer.mcs.anl.gov
> 
> I agree - the file transfer state models are needed for SAGA.
> We don't have any actions on these states anyway.
> 
> Andre.
> 
> 
> Quoting [Christopher Smith] (Feb 11 2006):
> > 
> > Sure.
> > 
> > As mentioned ... I think maybe supporting a subset of BES is ok. Much of the
> > state model wrt file transfer state modelling I think is not required for
> > SAGA.
> > 
> > -- Chris
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 10/2/06 18:46, "Andre Merzky" <andre at merzky.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Ok, then I'll do that in the strawman.  I would appreciate
> > > if you could glance over it after commit, for a sanity
> > > check.
> > > 
> > > Thanks, Andre.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Quoting [Christopher Smith] (Feb 11 2006):
> > >> 
> > >> It makes sense to keep the state models in sync.
> > >> 
> > >> -- Chris
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> On 10/2/06 18:26, "Andre Merzky" <andre at merzky.net> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> Quoting [Christopher Smith] (Feb 11 2006):
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> What I meant by that comment is that where it is a subset, it should
> > >>>> reflect
> > >>>> the BES terminology. I think that the number of states represented is
> > >>>> enough
> > >>>> already. ;-)
> > >>> 
> > >>> Would it make sense to just copy the BES state diagram?
> > >>> 
> > >>> It did not exist when we (== you ;-) drafted the SAGA job
> > >>> states - if it would have been around then, we might have
> > >>> had copied it already.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Apart from the SystemXXX/UserXXX states, and from Hold,
> > >>> it is not that much different from the SAGA model anyway.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Cheers, Andre.
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>>> -- Chris
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> On 10/2/06 17:30, "Andre Merzky" <andre at merzky.net> wrote:
> > >>>> 
> > >>>>> Hi Chris, 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> many thanks for the answers! :-)
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>>> By the way ... I believe that the state diagram should at least be a
> > >>>>>> subset
> > >>>>>> of the BES state diagram ... we should adopt the same names.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> I agree, kind of - I would say that the SAGA job state
> > >>>>> diagram should at _most_ be subset of the BES state diagram.
> > >>>>> It could be _S_implier :-)
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Cheers, Andre.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Quoting [Christopher Smith] (Feb 10 2006):
> > >>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:41:18 -0800
> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [saga-rg] job states...
> > >>>>>> From: Christopher Smith <csmith at platform.com>
> > >>>>>> To: Simple API for Grid Applications WG <saga-rg at ggf.org>
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> On 4/2/06 11:18, "Andre Merzky" <andre at merzky.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> Ok ... I'll try to answer these, at least from my viewpoint.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> I think that diagram is wrong, isn't it?  Well, here are my
> > >>>>>>> questions:
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>   - if we submit a job, its immediately Queued - is that
> > >>>>>>>     right?  Should it be pending before (e.g. as long as the
> > >>>>>>>     queuing request travels the middleware layers)?
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> To me, Queued is the same as Pending. Pending is probably a better word
> > >>>>>> for
> > >>>>>> this. Can't remember where the Queued name came from, as LSF uses PEND.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>   - can the hold and suspend states reached only from
> > >>>>>>>     'Running', or from elsewhere as well?
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> You can only go into a Hold state from Pending, I think, or directly into
> > >>>>>> Hold on submission.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>   - What is the difference between 'Hold' and 'Suspend'?
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> A Hold state tells the scheduler/broker not to consider this job for
> > >>>>>> scheduling/dispatch until the hold is explicitly released.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>   - Are there signals defined (apart from KILL) which shange
> > >>>>>>>     the job state?  I guess that is not as simple as saying
> > >>>>>>>     SUSP does suspend - that state is probably defined by
> > >>>>>>>     the scheduler, not by the OS...
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> Right ... this is implementation dependent on the mechanism used to
> > >>>>>> suspend
> > >>>>>> a job (might be a signal, might be some other mechanism). What is
> > >>>>>> important
> > >>>>>> is that there is an operation to initiate the state transition.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>   - What is the use case for distinguishing between UserHold
> > >>>>>>>     and SystemHold, or between UserSuspend and
> > >>>>>>>     SystemSuspend?
> > >>>>>>>    
> > >>>>>> If I preempt workload, the system will put it into a SystemSuspend state
> > >>>>>> that a user cannot cause a switch out of, otherwise a system may become
> > >>>>>> oversubscribed due to the preempted and preempting jobs running at the
> > >>>>>> same
> > >>>>>> time. A UserSuspend can be entered and exited by the user, and is often
> > >>>>>> used
> > >>>>>> to hold processing to check progress, etc.
> > >>>>>>  
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> By the way ... I believe that the state diagram should at least be a
> > >>>>>> subset
> > >>>>>> of the BES state diagram ... we should adopt the same names.
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> -- Chris
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "So much time, so little to do..."  -- Garfield
> 



-- 
Thilo Kielmann                                 http://www.cs.vu.nl/~kielmann/