[saga-rg] Fwd (s.newhouse at omii.ac.uk): Re: SAGA - WG?

[Andre Merzky]

Hi Craig, 


Quoting [Craig Lee] (Jan 25 2006):
> 
> All,
> 
> First of all, allow me to say that this is a good problem to have.
> The fact that the GFSG is considering whether SAGA should
> be one WG or an umbrella RG for multiple WGs means that
> people view it as important.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the SAGA-RG could continue as
> this umbrella organization, but to follow through with the
> original SAGA intent, an initial WG should be formed that is
> focused on _S_AGA.

I agree to that, that would be the simpliest way forward I
guess.  _if_ other WGs will form, and if the RG can be
useful beyond its current scope is mainly a question of
participation I guess...



> To emphasize the _simple_ in
> SAGA I keep coming back to the analogy of "the six calls
> in MPI".  Whether the current SAGA API is simple enough
> is separate discussion.  In any case, the API should be
> (a) minimally complete, (b) easy for implementers to implement
> and (c) easy for new grid users to use.

Right.  That should be (and I think is) the focus of our
current API spec.

Cheers, Andre.



> As long as the umbrella SAGA-RG persists, it can consider
> issues of enhancing the API in various functional areas,
> e.g., data movement, and also establishing a common
> look-and-feel across them all.  WGs could be spun-off
> as necessary.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> --Craig
> 
> At 10:13 AM 1/24/2006, Andre Merzky wrote:
> >Dear group,
> >
> >as you know, we are currently in transition from a GGF
> >Research Group to a GGF Working Group, which will enable
> >us to submit documents into the standardization track.
> >The last action from our side was to submit the proposed
> >WG charter to our Area Directors (Steven and Dieter), and
> >wait for the last step in the process, the GFSG approval of
> >that charter.
> >
> >Below you find the answer we got from the GFSG.  I know
> >people will have strong opinions about that, both positive
> >and negative (well, certainly I do anyway :-P ), so we would
> >like to discuss the GFSG answer on this list.  It would be
> >favourable to come to a group internal conclusion, and a
> >solid opinion, about the groups future before GGF16 - that
> >means within the next two weeks.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >  your friendly group chairs ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Forwarded message from Steven Newhouse <s.newhouse at omii.ac.uk> -----
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:38:45 +0000
> >> From: Steven Newhouse <s.newhouse at omii.ac.uk>
> >> To: Andre Merzky <andre at merzky.net>, Shantenu Jha <s.jha at ucl.ac.uk>,
> >>       Tom Goodale <goodale at cct.lsu.edu>
> >> CC: Dieter Kranzlmueller <dk at gup.jku.at>
> >> Subject: Re: SAGA - WG?
> >>
> >> Dear Andre, Shantenu & Tom,
> >>
> >> At the GFSG meeting last week, there was a general discussion as to how
> >> GFSG should/could steer the standards areas to increase the impact of
> >> GGF. One of the discussions related to the Applications area and how we
> >> (as Area Directors) could help to structure the activity to align work
> >> with activities in the Architecture (i.e. OGSA) area.
> >>
> >> There was considerable interest from the rest of the GFSG in the SAGA
> >> activities and the potential uptake that the generation of stable
> >> client-side interfaces (and potentially command line tools that build on
> >> these interfaces) could provide. The GFSG saw SAGA-RG as an important
> >> step forward for grids being adopted by the wider community.
> >>
> >> That's the good news!
> >>
> >> We mentioned the pending SAGA-WG charter and that this was the next step
> >> to move things forward. Some concern was expressed about focus and broad
> >> scope. Especially as other domains would like to bring forward their own
> >> domains (data access, data movement, etc) for client side API
> >> standardisation.
> >>
> >> One proposed solution to this is that SAGA-RG stays as it is. It is
> >> doing very valuable work collecting use cases, developing the strawman
> >> API that supports these use cases and discussing implementation issues
> >> through real experience. However, clearly there are elements within the
> >> strawman that are ready to move to the next level.
> >>
> >> It is proposed that these aspects should be developed as standalone WG's
> >> starting with a common look and feel, and then picking up on (say) jobs
> >> & file movement to drive some domain specific applications of the common
> >> look and feel. The result would be an umbrella-RG (SAGA) with a set of
> >> coupled WGs for the different aspects.
> >>
> >> So there are two ways forward - you have _our_ support which ever way
> >> _you_ choose to go forward.
> >>
> >> If you go forward with then the current charter then you will need to be
> >> explicit as to which areas you will be doing (to allow space for other
> >> WG's to come forward), i.e. you need to define your API scope. Elements
> >> of the API will change at different rates and putting this all into one
> >> specification adds to its complexity. Small tightly focussed
> >> specifications have had much greater success within GGF. This may be
> >> something else to consider.
> >>
> >> As a conclusion we hope that you will think about this great opportunity
> >> to take the responsibility for the bigger picture, and that you will
> >> adapt your plans accordingly from this feedback. We would certainly be
> >> available to support you in this quest. At the same time, it has also
> >> been agreed to continue the regular bit-flipping procedure with your
> >> charter, should you insist on your currently proposed approach.
> >>
> >> Steven & Dieter
> >--
> >+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
> >| Andre Merzky                      | phon: +31 - 20 - 598 - 7759 |
> >| Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) | fax : +31 - 20 - 598 - 7653 |
> >| Dept. of Computer Science         | mail: merzky at cs.vu.nl       |
> >| De Boelelaan 1083a                | www:  http://www.merzky.net |
> >| 1081 HV Amsterdam, Netherlands    |                             |
> >+-----------------------------------------------------------------+



-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andre Merzky                      | phon: +31 - 20 - 598 - 7759 |
| Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) | fax : +31 - 20 - 598 - 7653 |
| Dept. of Computer Science         | mail: merzky at cs.vu.nl       |
| De Boelelaan 1083a                | www:  http://www.merzky.net |
| 1081 HV Amsterdam, Netherlands    |                             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+