[saga-rg] Details for call 08/09/2005
Andre Merzky
andre at merzky.net
Thu Sep 8 09:59:44 CDT 2005
Hi,
the current issue list is attached.
Cheers, Andre
Quoting [Tom Goodale] (Sep 08 2005):
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:17:50 +0100 (BST)
> From: Tom Goodale <goodale at cct.lsu.edu>
> To: saga-rg at ggf.org
> Subject: [saga-rg] Details for call 08/09/2005
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Sorry for not sending this earlier. Today's details are
>
> Date: Thu 25 August 2005
> Time: 1700 Central European Summer Time
> 1600 British Summer Time
> 1000 Central Summer Time
> 0800 Pacific Summer Time
> Number: 0844 888 8888 (UK)
> 01805 004 102 (Germany)
> +44 870 088 5706 (Others)
> Code: 808044
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom
--
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| Andre Merzky | phon: +31 - 20 - 598 - 7759 |
| Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (VU) | fax : +31 - 20 - 598 - 7653 |
| Dept. of Computer Science | mail: merzky at cs.vu.nl |
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Peter Kunszt <Peter.Kunszt at cern.ch>
Kalman Kovari <Kalman.Kovari at cern.ch>
=====================================
1) The examples are sometimes more misleading than useful...
-> why?
-> DONE ANDRE: clearify, discuss on list
2) The error handling and error semantics are not defined well
enough. This is essential in order to assure proper
interoperability.
-> compile list of error codes, check for consistency
-> TODO TOM: create proposal for procedural and OO
3) There is a lack of structure in terms of interface layering. High
level interfaces (like JobManagement) and low level interfaces
(like Stream) are not distinguished, motivated, or put into
context. E.g. why is there a need of a networkstream-level
interface for a grid application?
-> intentional, see use cases!
-> DONE ANDRE: CLEARIFY in intro
4) Example (P18): OO structured, not like the iface.
(eg. i = dir.getNumEntries() instead of dir.getNumEntries(a) ? )
-> DONE ANDRE: cleanup, also session handle etc.
5) Example (P29): an exact copy of Ex. 1.
-> check
-> DONE ANDRE
6) Description - Streams (P62): close or destroyStream? maybe close,
but not consistent.
-> see Notes in Streams
-> DONE ANDRE: use <constructor> or so. - check SIDL
==> not specified in SIDL,
proposal: use "CONSTRUCTOR" and "destructor"
7) General: sometimes bitwise OR-s are used for multiple options
(Stream/ActivityType, P59), sometimes arrays of values
(NameSpace/CopyFlags, P9). Why no convention?
-> I agree, bitwise OR is simplier
-> DONE ANDRE: check for languages, fix
8) Interface NSDir: what are the semantics of the copy method? of
getName and getURL?
-> ?
-> DONE ANDRE: ask for clearification, sync with GFS
Thorsten Sch"utt:
-----------------
9) isFile -> isEntry?
-> should we revive NSEntry (more reasons?)?
-> DONE ANDRE: ask mailing list
- no feedback - I think we should, for clearer naming and
structure.
10) SIDL docs on wiki!
-> TODO TOM/JOHN
11) fix all examples in respect to session and context
-> DONE ANDRE.
Use a default session handle if none is specified
-> examples are still valid :-D
12) flags
-> DONE ANDRE: see above
13) Attribute -> AttributeSet
-> TODO TOM: leave naming, but better describe idea
Steven Newhouse:
----------------
14) Inconsistent use of security! Its only in the stream
section, nowhere else. "Not specifying a security system
makes sense, but I think all of these methods should have
a security token being passed into them or it should be an
argument in the relevant object constructor."
-> should be fixed by session and context
-> DONE ANDRE
15) I assume the URL can support a number of protocols -
http/https/file/gridftp. I see no way to register plugins in the
interface (may be this is an 'internal' interface as opposed to a
user funtion. Maybe there needs to be aet of interfaces to help
the developers, e.g. register protocol plugins.
-> plugin: implementation level
-> url support: util class? any://? -> language specific
-> need good error codes
16) State example language each time! Do examples in multiple
languages!
-> TODO:
17) How are you going to handle partial functionality implementations?
Should _all_ operations support a NotImplementedException? Should
there be a standard static method in each section to discover what
is implemented? e.g. supported protocols & supported methods.
- methods need ALL to be implemented.
- protocols etc: hmmm...
- discussed at GGF, DONE
- was discussed at GGF...
- there WILL be partial implementation, but they are not SAGA
conform then.
- necessary (session, context, ...)
- sufficient (one other subsys)
- CAN implement packages -> complete packages (partial
compliant)
- DONE ANDRE
- should we allow query of implemented packages?
- OPEN ISSUE
18) You have an 'LSF' schema for >>, >, < & <<. But in the
file/directory area you use a series of attribute flags. I think
you should carry these attribute flags forward into the job
definition area - either way I think you should have one model not
two!
- DONE ANDRE: mark as known issue
19) I. General Model.
Language mapping.
Standard attribute model.
Security.
Tasks
II. Tier 1 Interfaces.
III. Tier 2 and above Interfaces.
- II and III on same level!
- DONE
20) What is to come in version 2?
- steering and monitoring
- possibly combining logical/physical files (read on
logical files)
- advert service
- GridRPC
- GridCPR
- Task dependencies (simple work flows and batches)
- extensions to existing classes
- we have no explicit roadmap!!
Others:
=======
21) 'The URL Problem'
- should we approach it?
- DONE ANDRE:
- explain problem, leave it open
- an implementation MAY be able to translate, or use any://
- MUST throw good exception otherwise
22) advert service
-> easy: NS + Attribute + find on attribute!
why not do it?
DONE ANDRE: proposal to the mailing list.
23) find in name spaces?
-> why not, at least for names!?
But over attributes?
What about query language then?
DONE ANDRE: proposal to the mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre:
======
24) list only on dir - why not on file?
25) go from getSize to real stat
26) namespace ops on files - why not on wildcards?
27) should callbacks be introduced for some things? Best on tasks,
but also for streams (is factory!) Necessary for
monitoring/streaming, so best introduce in general...
28) integrate GridRPC / GridCPR / JSDL? What else? Use Cases?!
29) check if bulk operations can be done with task containers
(explicit support needed/wanted for argument list generation?)
30) ACLs!
31) Authorization (call outs?)
32) task = ftf.read (1, buffer, &n);
task.run ();
When are 'n' and 'buffer' available? I would say after
wait (state = finished or cancelled).
Should we have a state 'failed'? For simplicity - otherwise you
have to check every job which 'finish'ed if it actually finished
successfully... (was discussion feedback at VU)
33) into intro:
default is to define semantics everywhere.
point out parts where semantics is up to the implementation
GGF14:
======
34) DONE SHANTENU: send UC doc to editors!
TODO SHANTENU: follow up
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Phone calls:
============
35) relation to OGSA into intro
DONE ANDRE:
36) - example are not normative for language binding
- state in intro
DONE ANDRE
- provide one examples in various languages
- DONE ANDRE: C, C++, Perl, Java (DONE ROB)
- TODO TOM: Fortran
- TODO HARTMUT: Python
37) better state consistency model in intro:
DONE ANDRE.
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Various:
========
38) add myproxy context type
DONE ANDRE
39) check Nathans CPR implementation
DONE ANDRE
40) put JSDL, GridRPC etc specs onto WIKI
TODO ANDRE
41) how to query LAST job state before STOPPED? History possible?
how to query reason for job error condition? - ask list
DONE CHRIS/ANDRE
42) job states: PRESTAGING POSTAGING - ask list
DONE CHRIS
43) jobs: what about sandboxing?
DONE ANDRE
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
44) email use case authors to map Strawman to Use Case,
propose AG or conf call
DONE ANDRE
45) map strawman to GridLab UC
DONE ANDRE
46) add unix permission like ownership etc
DONE ANDRE
47) check JSDL compliance
TODO ANDRE
48) document realation of other GGF APIs and pieces
TODO: ?
49) do a list of examples on the WIKI
DONE ANDRE
50) a context should get added only once to a session.
DONE ANDRE
51) wait on tasks: return immediatly if task is already done, only
throw on cancelled (why even then?)
DONE ANDRE
52) getContext --> listContexts (consistency)
DONE ANDRE
53) getState on TaskContainer, giving vec of states?
54) link/copy/move/remove: default use pwd? if yes, what is state
after move/remove?
DONE ANDRE: don't allow (check POSIX) -> BadParameter
DONE ANDRE: introduce stale handle exception
55) check strawman for references
56) cancel blocking?
57) saga::job self = getSelf (); ?
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