[Pgi-wg] Notes of OGSA_BES session at OGF27

[Johannes Watzl]

Dear all,

please see below the notes from the BES session at the OGF27 in Banff.

Best,
Johannes


Notes:

Requirements Cream/ARC

Steven:
GLUE2: XML rendering not ready
not talking about attributes

Andrew:
just relabelling

Morris:
in description of epr
problem in GLUE2:
circle dependecies
an epr can have numerous resources and one resource can have numerous ep

Andrew:
in originalBES spec: no info

Donal:
retain info for how long?

Andrew:
til it is finished
not make a minimum - imagine 10000 jobs -> huge amount of data
you should not be able to see other people's eprs

PGI requirements
createActivity

pending -> running
stay there?
was put out the original
pending, running, failed
list, delete, copy, write

Morris:
refine -> more detail in fault

Philipp:
lot of checking needed

Steven:
if element not supported -> throw fault
now: bit more information

Andreas:
no endpoint in JSDL

Andrew:
enumerate classes of problems

Morris:
do we want them in the spec?

Steven:
session directory

Andrew:
what is session directory?

Steven:
URI is returned to client
see from state machine -> kick off exec

Andrew:
rather profile

Morris:
never using service staging in

Steve:
avoid roundtrip

David:
no staging in
just running?

Andrew:
doc that comes in not for JSDL
-> activity doc that includes JSDL

Philipp:
activity ep doc

Andres:
BES ep profile

Morris:
when decide start/run/stop
hold point
spec. JSDL
S0    ->   S0'   ->   S1
         stop here

Andreas:
data staging described outside

Morris:
should it be interface or JSDL issue?

Andreas:
complex workflow
not good to put it in JSDL

Andrew:
stop:hold points

Morris:
also pre- and post processing
- call preproc, put data right
- job run
- post proc

Andrew:
not putting complete workflows

Andreas:
not in JSDL
-> specify

Morris:
working dir in JSDL but not working
you don't know where job is running

Dave:
underlying implementation

Andrew:
want run workflow on node!?

Morris:
single one

Andrew:
solve problem:
you need to come back to same container

Morris:
one BES; 4,5 nodes

Andrew:
local data management
how people mount file system

Steve's suggestion:
BES container epr

Philip:inUNICORE after job is done all dirs are cleaned
more like an implementation issue
session dir is no problem

Steve:
JSDL
control: do it or don't do it
finer control wanted

Andrew:
data motion is also a job
determine, add requirements
how are we going to handle these problems?
look at different mechanisms
have working dir, can persist
potentially run jobs in session dirs
-> data close

external reference

purge, create seperately
give scratch space

Morris:
what if lots of CPUs needed later?

Andrew:
scheduling decision

David:
two stages

Andrew:
two function calls: slower

Morris:
epr must be refined

Steve:
do you have a simple BES ep?
represent resource sharing in BES interface

Andrew:
BES has management interface

Steve:
Why does share of resources need to be reflected?


Andrew:
Behind the scenes we can have different BES for different queues.
-> separate BES resource for each phys. queue

Morris:
In EGEE: one BES container somewhere

David:
queueing on VOMS attributes
job manager does automatic queuing
WMS does not include queue name in the job description

Steven:
Why not reflected job requirements in JSDL doc?

Morris:
maybe

Andreas:
feature where are you submitting to

David:
complete different ways in lsf and Condor

Andrew:
that's why different BES

Steven:
BES endpoint
multiple resources

Morris:
JSDL: specify share
keeping contacts only once

Andrew:
encapsulate or not?

Steven:
GLUE2: coordinates of info about resources
-> GLUE2 service ep
BES ep described through GLUE2

Morris:
different containers

Steven:
different endpoints

Donal:
WS-addressing

Morris:
WSRF

Andrew:
WSRF and WS-addressing are not coupled

Morris:
reference parameters
black box to users

Andrew:
two choices
* let PGI dow what they need for the specification
* BES 1.1

going to BES 1.1
coupled with JSDL

Morris:
slide "Refinement concepts overview"

David:
information service

Steven:
What to do with GLUE2?

Steven:
job info in GLUE2 scheme

Andrew:
we talk to endpoint to find out the requirements
push or pull model?
for dynamic meta data push model
good notification system

Andrew:
HPC resource?
not an OGSA-BES thing

Steven:
back to session dir

Andrew:
one execution line to multiple execution lines

Andreas:
it is a workflow

Andrew:
you can do this with BES: Data-Transfer delegation
when BES service is running it does delegation

Philip:
activity instance schema
keep history what happened to activity

Andrew:
send log info to some place

Philip:
use case from D-Grid
Platform
UNICORE

Andrew:
profile

GLUE2 used for?

Andrew:
GLUE2 schema not an implementation

Alexander:
if you submit activity doc you get back an endpoitn

Steve:
will there be something from BES 1.0 in BES 1.1

Andrew:
everything will change
comepletely new namespace
supporting both port types in the same service

Steven:
backward compatiblilty
implementing the two different port types

Andrew:
1.1: superset of 1.0
implement 1.1 machinery on 1.0

Steven:
client with 1.0 should be able to use 1.1


next steps:
- Group is revising
- Strawman within BES
- Work on the concepts one at a time
- Not starting with delegation
- Different implementations





-- 
        _  _ _  _ _  _          Johannes Watzl
        |\/| |\ | |\/|          Institut für Informatik / Dept. of CS
        |  | | \| |  |          Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
     ======= TEAM =======       Oettingenstr. 67, 80538 Munich, Germany
                                Room D0.5, Phone +49-89-2180-9162
Munich Network Management Team  Email: watzl at nm.ifi.lmu.de
Münchner Netz-Management Team   http://www.nm.ifi.lmu.de/~watzl