[OGSA-BES-WG] re-evaluate removal of container model from BESspec appendix
Christopher Smith
csmith at platform.com
Thu Sep 28 14:23:01 CDT 2006
So I'm still not sure that there is general consensus that this should be in
the BES specification. I still vote for this information to be in a separate
informational document. It doesn't provide any help or guidance to
implementers of this specification, and as such is not very helpful in a
normative specification.
-- Chris
On 28/9/06 06:22, "Hiro Kishimoto" <hiro.kishimoto at jp.fujitsu.com> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> Appendix J is just 3 pages and Ellen already commit to update this.
> I also can join review team. Thanks,
> ----
> Hiro Kishimoto
>
> Maguire_Tom at emc.com wrote:
>> This appendix needs to have terminology addressed. Appendix J uses the term
>> container which is not used anywhere else in the specification; this creates
>> a bit of a semantic chasm that needs to be bridged. Given the extensive use
>> of the container terminology I believe a fair bit of editing would be
>> necessary to make the appendix consistent with the rest of the
>> specification. This would necessitate another round of detailed reviews of
>> the specification by the WG. I think it comes down to a question of timing
>> wrt included or not.
>> Sorry if I have offended sensibilities with this note....
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tom Maguire
>> +1(845) 729-4806
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hiro Kishimoto [mailto:hiro.kishimoto at jp.fujitsu.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:47 PM
>> To: Maguire, Tom
>> Cc: Pulsipher, Darren; ogsa-bes-wg at ogf.org
>> Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] re-evaluate removal of container model from
>> BESspec appendix
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would keep this informative appendix in the BES spec.
>> As Ellen explained, this appendix is an important tool to ask
>> DMTF to extend/adjust their CIM model to meet BES needs.
>>
>> Thus it will be the first success example of OGSA
>> information/data modeling works by healthy collaboration
>> between OGF and DMTF.
>>
>> Since this appendix is *informative*, the overview section
>> should read:
>>
>>> The Container Model describes the managed objects and their
>>> relationships for defining the execution environment for activities in a
>>> grid. The CIMv2.10 final schema is the foundation for the development of
>>> this model. It is expected that this model will be folded into CIMv2.12
>>> preliminary. This appendix is informative.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> ----
>> Hiro Kishimoto
>>
>> Maguire_Tom at emc.com wrote:
>>> I'm usually one of the first to suggest removing non-normative text from a
>>> specification. However, I don't understand why an appendix of this nature
>>> is so objectionable. Sure it could be a separate info document, but is it
>>> that horrific to have an appendix that describes extensions/utilizations
>> of
>>> a standard information model for containers?
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tom Maguire
>>> +1(845) 729-4806
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Pulsipher_Darren at emc.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:53 PM
>>> To: ogsa-bes-wg at ogf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] re-evaluate removal of container model from
>>> BESspec appendix
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not heard a dissenting vote yet. Anyone out there?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> From: ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ogsa-bes-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Christopher Smith
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:03 PM
>>> To: Ian Foster; Ellen Stokes; Andrew Grimshaw; ogsa-bes-wg at ogf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OGSA-BES-WG] re-evaluate removal of container model from BES
>>> spec appendix
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> -- Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27/9/06 07:51, "Ian Foster" <foster at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to argue strongly against this. As I said earlier, I think this
>> is
>>> good material and I don't have any objection to it being published as an
>>> OGSA informational document. I just don't think it belongs in a BES
>>> specification, which should contain the minimum information needed to
>>> specify BES.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> At 09:49 AM 9/27/2006 -0500, Ellen Stokes wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> Per our discussion at the OGSA F2F Sep 14, I'd like the workgroup to
>>> re-evaluate the decision to remove the (general) container model from the
>>> BES specification appendix.
>>>
>>> The intent of this appendix is to provide the container model as an
>>> 'informational' appendix so it can be submitted to DMTF as concrete
>> proposal
>>> for inclusion in the DMTF CIM and a context for why a container model is
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> The inclusion of the model in the BES spec does not imply that OGSA must
>>> implement this CIM container model to implement BES; it is merely an
>>> abstraction for a general container model where BES can provide context
>> for
>>> the need and implementation of a specific container model. If this point
>>> doesn't come across in the appendix text, I have no problem modifying the
>>> text.
>>>
>>> I know the BES calls are generally scheduled for Thursdays; however, I am
>>> not available this Thursday Sep 28.
>>> Let me know when this topic can be scheduled as part of BES workgroup
>> call.
>>> Ellen
>>>
>>>
>>> Ellen Stokes
>>> STSM, Grid Computing
>>> TC Member, IBM Academy of Technology
>>> Austin, Texas
>>> tl 678 0552 outside +1 512 838 0552
>>> stokese at us.ibm.com
>>> --
>>> ogsa-bes-wg mailing list
>>> ogsa-bes-wg at ogf.org
>>> http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________
>>> Ian Foster -- Weblog: http://ianfoster.typepad.com
>>> <http://ianfoster.typepad.com/> <http://ianfoster.typepad.com/>
>>> Computation Institute: www.ci.uchicago.edu <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/>
>>> <http://www.ci.uchicago.edu/> & www.ci.anl.gov <http://www.ci.anl.gov/>
>>> <http://www.ci.anl.gov/>
>>> Argonne: MCS/221, 9700 S. Cass Ave, Argonne, IL 60439
>>> Chicago: Rm 405, 5640 S. Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637
>>> Tel: +1 630 252 4619 --- Globus Alliance: www.globus.org
>>> <http://www.globus.org/> <http://www.globus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> --
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>>> ogsa-bes-wg at ogf.org
>>> http://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ogsa-bes-wg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>
>
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