From guy.roberts at geant.org Wed Jul 3 06:50:33 2019 From: guy.roberts at geant.org (Guy Roberts) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 10:50:33 +0000 Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 Message-ID: Hi NSI team, I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? Diego Lopez form Telefonica and Gert Grammel from Juniper. I think they are probably both aware of NSI. Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? Guy Guy Roberts PhD Senior Network Architect Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 Skype: guy1965 Networks ? Services ? People Learn more at www.geant.org? ? G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of Commerce in Amsterdam with registration number 40535155 and operates in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered office: Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK branch address: City House, 126-130 Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 1PQ, UK. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Alan.Sill at ttu.edu Wed Jul 3 07:03:27 2019 From: Alan.Sill at ttu.edu (Sill, Alan) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 11:03:27 +0000 Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83D1F26D-99EE-4445-BC60-0E7B53864075@ttu.edu> Thanks for the information, Guy. While I?m not familiar with the details of the IETF work, let me point out the provisions of the OGF copyright that allow (at the request of the group of course and with the permission of the OGF Board) removal of OGF copyright restrictions if necessary specifically for uploading and contribution of content for the purpose of creating other international standards. This would allow you to propose submitting NSI and/or other OGF material to the IETF if that is the direction the group would like to proceed. Let me know if there?s an interest in this direction. I?ll leave the technical discussions to the group. Thanks, Alan On Jul 3, 2019, at 5:50 AM, Guy Roberts > wrote: Hi NSI team, I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? Diego Lopez form Telefonica and Gert Grammel from Juniper. I think they are probably both aware of NSI. Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? Guy Guy Roberts PhD Senior Network Architect Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 Skype: guy1965 Networks ? Services ? People Learn more at www.geant.org? ? G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of Commerce in Amsterdam with registration number 40535155 and operates in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered office: Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK branch address: City House, 126-130 Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 1PQ, UK. _______________________________________________ nsi-wg mailing list nsi-wg at ogf.org https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ogf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fnsi-wg&data=02%7C01%7Calan.sill%40ttu.edu%7C27dd6681a0a541ac0ef108d6ffa451a3%7C178a51bf8b2049ffb65556245d5c173c%7C0%7C0%7C636977478566431594&sdata=QRarZvApJM31SylacQTcl8pwO6TaWNusy7gy6ab2s%2Bc%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htj at nordu.net Wed Jul 3 07:46:33 2019 From: htj at nordu.net (Henrik Thostrup Jensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:46:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone I don't this is anything new. At MPLSworld 2018 I saw at least 4-5 different re-implementations of NSI, most typically in the disguise of providing WAN solutions for companies across multiple providers, and I've seen this a couple of other places as well. Cisco even has a decidecated product/service for this multi-provider WAN. It was presented at Cisco NSO days in June this year. Presentation here: https://community.cisco.com/t5/nso-developer-hub-documents/nso-devdays-2019-marcus-hacke-s-keynote-sd-wan-as-a-service/ta-p/3875913 Don't let the ngena label fool you, it's Cisco :-). This one in particular requires buy-in on the Cisco XR and NSO platform to participate (as usual Cisco is at the forefront of developing business models), but there other solutions that are more vendor agnostic, but often the protocol isn't particularly well-defined, as the solutions have been more goal focussed. /Henrik On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, Guy Roberts wrote: > > Hi NSI team, > > > > I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 > > > > I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? Diego Lopez form Telefonica and > Gert Grammel from Juniper. I think they are probably both aware of NSI. > > > > Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? > > > > Guy > > > > > > > > Guy Roberts PhD > > Senior Network Architect > > Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 > > Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 > > Skype: guy1965 > > > > Networks ? Services ? People > > Learn more at www.geant.org? > > > ?G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of Commerce in Amsterdam with > registration number 40535155 and operates in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered > office: Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK branch address: City House, 126-130 > Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 1PQ, UK. > > > > > Best regards, Henrik Henrik Thostrup Jensen Software Developer, NORDUnet From jerry at nordu.net Wed Jul 3 08:01:14 2019 From: jerry at nordu.net (Jerry Sobieski) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 08:01:14 -0400 Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Diego was a reviewer for the Integrated Services Framework document we did in GEANT last year.? He made some good suggestions. ? That ISF document referenced NSI as a key foundational technology in several areas. Also, NSI was referenced in the 5G PPP Architecture released by the EC about 18 months ago.?? It recommended NSI - but lamented that it did not do full virtualization.?? This could be easily solved if we extend NSI to reflect the broader Service Definitions of the generic virtualization model being refined by the GNA team.?? The GVM is in fact just an extension of NSI... The best thing we need to do is to have NSI running in our production R&E networks - _/all of them./_ Properly engineered.? (Including the Open exchange points, regionals, campuses, etc. )? And make it available,? and promote it for new applications. ?? We have it running now, so this is not a hard or difficult thing... ? This will establish NSI as the defacto multi-domain atomic provisioning model for p2p circuits. BR Jerry On 7/3/19 1:50 PM, Guy Roberts wrote: > > Hi NSI team, > > I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 > > I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? > Diego Lopez form Telefonica and Gert Grammel from Juniper. I think > they are probably both aware of NSI. > > Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? > > Guy > > ** > > ** > > *Guy Roberts PhD* > > *Senior Network Architect* > > Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 > > Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 > > Skype: guy1965 > > Networks ? Services ? People > > Learn more at www.geant.org? > > ? > > G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of > Commerce in Amsterdam with registration number 40535155 and operates > in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered office: > Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK branch address: > City House, 126-130 Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 1PQ, UK. > > > _______________________________________________ > nsi-wg mailing list > nsi-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsi-wg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerry at nordu.net Wed Jul 3 09:59:33 2019 From: jerry at nordu.net (Jerry Sobieski) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:59:33 -0400 Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5e377b7c-ce28-ddc0-e6d9-a6b05dc7d9e5@nordu.net> Hi Afrodite- Thanks for this.? Yeah, we should engage more with IETF and/or ETSI, etc.? In the past this has been a bit difficult given lack of time and to some degree the need to get some of these technologies working and deployed... These ISGs also tend to be dominated by the commercials who often have significantly different drivers (and better budgets to support such activity).? ? It would be nice if we can actually influence the Cisco's et al with things like NSI - these really are strong technologies. As another aside... at an MEF meeting last summer in Paris one of the Cisco Dev't Directors was speaking...He said in his talk that Cisco *_/explicitly wants to work with the pre-standards groups/_* doing the R&D on these types of protocols and service concepts... His specific reason was that this gained R&E experience is what helps define good standards.? Without it, a "standard" is dramatically less likely to be used - or useful. I am heading off to the 4th of July weekend... I will ping you next week when I return...? Maybe you have some time in next few weeks to chat about this? ?? We really ought to revisit and refine that ISF document...? I think GEANT should still be looking and trying to understand it and its implications in more detail. Thanks again Jerry On 7/3/19 3:12 PM, Afrodite Sevasti wrote: > > Hi all, > > working as in independent expert for the EC on 5G PPP for the last 4 > years, I was repeatedly recommending to stakeholders there that > industry initiatives with EC funding should evaluate NSI against the > industry developments on the field (e.g. MEF LSO). As a result, I saw > some NSI appearances in relevant documents but only in the level of > state-of-art comparison. > > As long as NSI is detached from ETSI, MEF and other industry works, it > is difficult to get traction. > > That?s why (@Jerry) I had recommended a thorough, technical comparison > and evaluation when I reviewed the ISF document. This is still missing. > > best regards > > Afrodite > > *From:* nsi-wg *On Behalf Of *Jerry Sobieski > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:01 PM > *To:* Guy Roberts ; chin at es.net; Tomohiro Kudoh > (kudoh at nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp) ; John Macauley > ; Jerry Sobieski (jerry at sobieski.net) > ; Richard Hughes-Jones > > *Cc:* nsi-wg at ogf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 > > Diego was a reviewer for the Integrated Services Framework document we > did in GEANT last year.? He made some good suggestions. ? That ISF > document referenced NSI as a key foundational technology in several areas. > > Also, NSI was referenced in the 5G PPP Architecture released by the EC > about 18 months ago.?? It recommended NSI - but lamented that it did > not do full virtualization.?? This could be easily solved if we extend > NSI to reflect the broader Service Definitions of the generic > virtualization model being refined by the GNA team.?? The GVM is in > fact just an extension of NSI... > > The best thing we need to do is to have NSI running in our production > R&E networks - /_all of them._/? Properly engineered.? (Including the > Open exchange points, regionals, campuses, etc. )? And make it > available,? and promote it for new applications. We have it running > now, so this is not a hard or difficult thing... ? This will establish > NSI as the defacto multi-domain atomic provisioning model for p2p > circuits. > > BR > > Jerry > > On 7/3/19 1:50 PM, Guy Roberts wrote: > > Hi NSI team, > > I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 > > I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? > Diego Lopez form Telefonica and Gert Grammel from Juniper. I think > they are probably both aware of NSI. > > Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? > > Guy > > ** > > ** > > *Guy Roberts PhD* > > *Senior Network Architect* > > Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 > > Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 > > Skype: guy1965 > > Networks ? Services ? People > > Learn more at www.geant.org? > > ? > > G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of > Commerce in Amsterdam with registration number 40535155 and > operates in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered > office: Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK branch > address: City House, 126-130 Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 1PQ, UK. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nsi-wg mailing list > > nsi-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsi-wg > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jens.jensen at stfc.ac.uk Thu Jul 4 05:08:36 2019 From: jens.jensen at stfc.ac.uk (Jensen, Jens (STFC,RAL,SC)) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 10:08:36 +0100 Subject: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 In-Reply-To: <5e377b7c-ce28-ddc0-e6d9-a6b05dc7d9e5@nordu.net> References: <5e377b7c-ce28-ddc0-e6d9-a6b05dc7d9e5@nordu.net> Message-ID: <81603ec3-37f0-fc6f-a488-f5e5a3ba050c@stfc.ac.uk> Hi all, Engaging with ETSI should be possible, as OGF has an MoU with ETSI - we've had some cross-pollination in the past, and I'd think it should be possible to send someone from NSI to ETSI with an OGF hat. Another option might be ISO/IEC, although we may want additional advice on this because OGF's MoU is with SC38 (cloud and distributed computing) and I have personally less visibility of networking standardisation in ISO/IEC. Cheers --jens On 03/07/2019 14:59, Jerry Sobieski wrote: > > Hi Afrodite- > > Thanks for this.? Yeah, we should engage more with IETF and/or ETSI, > etc.? In the past this has been a bit difficult given lack of time and > to some degree the need to get some of these technologies working and > deployed... These ISGs also tend to be dominated by the commercials > who often have significantly different drivers (and better budgets to > support such activity).? ? It would be nice if we can actually > influence the Cisco's et al with things like NSI - these really are > strong technologies. > > As another aside... at an MEF meeting last summer in Paris one of the > Cisco Dev't Directors was speaking...He said in his talk that Cisco > *_/explicitly wants to work with the pre-standards groups/_* doing the > R&D on these types of protocols and service concepts... His specific > reason was that this gained R&E experience is what helps define good > standards.? Without it, a "standard" is dramatically less likely to be > used - or useful. > > I am heading off to the 4th of July weekend... I will ping you next > week when I return...? Maybe you have some time in next few weeks to > chat about this? ?? We really ought to revisit and refine that ISF > document...? I think GEANT should still be looking and trying to > understand it and its implications in more detail. > > Thanks again > > Jerry > > On 7/3/19 3:12 PM, Afrodite Sevasti wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> working as in independent expert for the EC on 5G PPP for the last 4 >> years, I was repeatedly recommending to stakeholders there that >> industry initiatives with EC funding should evaluate NSI against the >> industry developments on the field (e.g. MEF LSO). As a result, I saw >> some NSI appearances in relevant documents but only in the level of >> state-of-art comparison. >> >> As long as NSI is detached from ETSI, MEF and other industry works, >> it is difficult to get traction. >> >> That?s why (@Jerry) I had recommended a thorough, technical >> comparison and evaluation when I reviewed the ISF document. This is >> still missing. >> >> best regards >> >> Afrodite >> >> *From:* nsi-wg *On Behalf Of *Jerry Sobieski >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:01 PM >> *To:* Guy Roberts ; chin at es.net; Tomohiro >> Kudoh (kudoh at nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp) ; John >> Macauley ; Jerry Sobieski (jerry at sobieski.net) >> ; Richard Hughes-Jones >> >> *Cc:* nsi-wg at ogf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Nsi-wg] rfc8453 >> >> Diego was a reviewer for the Integrated Services Framework document >> we did in GEANT last year.? He made some good suggestions. ? That ISF >> document referenced NSI as a key foundational technology in several >> areas. >> >> Also, NSI was referenced in the 5G PPP Architecture released by the >> EC about 18 months ago.?? It recommended NSI - but lamented that it >> did not do full virtualization.?? This could be easily solved if we >> extend NSI to reflect the broader Service Definitions of the generic >> virtualization model being refined by the GNA team.?? The GVM is in >> fact just an extension of NSI... >> >> The best thing we need to do is to have NSI running in our production >> R&E networks - /_all of them._/ Properly engineered.? (Including the >> Open exchange points, regionals, campuses, etc. )? And make it >> available,? and promote it for new applications. ?? We have it >> running now, so this is not a hard or difficult thing... ? This will >> establish NSI as the defacto multi-domain atomic provisioning model >> for p2p circuits. >> >> BR >> >> Jerry >> >> On 7/3/19 1:50 PM, Guy Roberts wrote: >> >> Hi NSI team, >> >> I see that IETF are doing something that looks rather like NSI. >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8453 >> >> I recognise a couple of names in the contributor list at the end? >> Diego Lopez form Telefonica and Gert Grammel from Juniper. I >> think they are probably both aware of NSI. >> >> Has anyone from NSI tried to engage with the this group? >> >> Guy >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *Guy Roberts PhD* >> >> *Senior Network Architect* >> >> Tel: +44 (0)1223 371316 >> >> Mob: +44 (0)7881 336417 >> >> Skype: guy1965 >> >> Networks ? Services ? People >> >> Learn more at www.geant.org? >> >> ? >> >> G?ANT Vereniging (Association) is registered with the Chamber of >> Commerce in Amsterdam with registration number 40535155 and >> operates in the UK as a branch of G?ANT Vereniging. Registered >> office: Hoekenrode 3, 1102BR Amsterdam, The Netherlands. UK >> branch address: City House, 126-130 Hills Road, Cambridge CB2 >> 1PQ, UK. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nsi-wg mailing list >> >> nsi-wg at ogf.org >> >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsi-wg >> > > _______________________________________________ > nsi-wg mailing list > nsi-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsi-wg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: