[DFDL-WG] Fwd: TPF extension for pointers and offsets - Fw: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
Mike Beckerle
mbeckerle.dfdl at gmail.com
Thu May 30 12:56:52 EDT 2019
Just making sure this thread is archived in the dfdl-wg mail archives. Some
of the messages I see were addressed directly to participants.
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Beckerle, Mike <mbeckerle at tresys.com>
Date: Thu, May 2, 2019 at 12:03 PM
Subject: TPF extension for pointers and offsets - Fw: Latest OGF DFDL WG
Call Minutes
To:
Cc: mbeckerle.dfdl at gmail.com <mbeckerle.dfdl at gmail.com>
------------------------------
*From:* Bradd Kadlecik <braddk at us.ibm.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, May 2, 2019 9:58 AM
*To:* Steve Hanson
*Cc:* Beckerle, Mike; Michele Zundo
*Subject:* Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
I have the following DFDL that I have ready on a z/TPF system for the call
today that can do both unparse and parse.
*(See attached file: tpf_service_responses.gen.dfdl.xsd)*
It represents the following C structure:
typedef struct tpf_service_responses {
ushort version;
ushort respNum; /* Number of response formats */
uint resv;
csvc_resp *resp[5]; /* Array of response formats */
} __attribute__ ((packed)) csvc_resps;
typedef struct tpf_service_response {
int status; /* response status code */
int resv;
csvc_format_elms *format; /* response format */
} __attribute__ ((packed)) csvc_resp;
typedef struct tpf_service_format_elements {
char *schema;
char root[8];
} __attribute__ ((packed)) csvc_format_elms;
Regards,
*Bradd Kadlecik*
z/TPF Development
------------------------------
*Phone:* 1-845-433-1573
* E-mail:* *braddk at us.ibm.com* <braddk at us.ibm.com>
2455 South Rd
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601-5400
United States
[image: Inactive hide details for Steve Hanson---04/05/2019 12:42:34
PM---Regards]Steve Hanson---04/05/2019 12:42:34 PM---Regards
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM
To: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM at IBMUS
Cc: "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele Zundo" <
michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 04/05/2019 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
*No*
*Action *
*309*
*Create example scenarios to illustrate offset & pointer requirements
(Bradd)*
5/4/19: Daffodil have a draft proposal for offset support, TPF have
experimental implementation for pointer support. Need examples to show the
requirement, especially unparsing.
Regards
Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK
Architect, *IBM DFDL*
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html>
Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/>
*smh at uk.ibm.com* <smh at uk.ibm.com>
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Note: I work Tuesday to Friday
[image: Inactive hide details for Steve Hanson---05/04/2019 10:29:24---I
can see a difference between offsets and pointers. If I follo]Steve
Hanson---05/04/2019 10:29:24---I can see a difference between offsets and
pointers. If I follow an offset and parse an element x t
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM
To: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM at IBMUS
Cc: "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele Zundo" <
michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 05/04/2019 10:29
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
I can see a difference between offsets and pointers. If I follow an offset
and parse an element x then I won't automatically jump back to where I was
- the next element y I parse will continue from location offset + length x
unless I use offset again to jump back to the original location. If I
follow a pointer and parse an element x, then the next element y I parse
will continue from original location + length(pointer).
Regards
Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK
Architect, *IBM DFDL*
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html>
Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/>
*smh at uk.ibm.com* <smh at uk.ibm.com>
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Note: I work Tuesday to Friday
[image: Inactive hide details for Steve Hanson---04/04/2019 09:42:36---This
is a proposal from the Daffodil team for offset support, ne]Steve
Hanson---04/04/2019 09:42:36---This is a proposal from the Daffodil team
for offset support, needed for formats like TIFF and if we
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM
To: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM at IBMUS
Cc: "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele Zundo" <
michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 04/04/2019 09:42
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
This is a proposal from the Daffodil team for offset support, needed for
formats like TIFF and if we ever want to be able to handle zip files.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74687382
I think this proposal can implement your requirement - the dfdl:offset
property can be an expression that refers to another element (your pointer
element), which can be hidden so as not to appear in the infoset. I think
what you are proposing is a more convenient way of handling offsets that
are defined dynamically in the data, as opposed to defined statically with
fixed values (though as I said below I need unparsing explained). But I may
be mis-understanding your use cases.
Regards
Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK
Architect, *IBM DFDL*
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html>
Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/>
*smh at uk.ibm.com* <smh at uk.ibm.com>
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Note: I work Tuesday to Friday
[image: Inactive hide details for Bradd Kadlecik---03/04/2019
16:50:13---Ok, I'll work on putting a scenario together for various point]Bradd
Kadlecik---03/04/2019 16:50:13---Ok, I'll work on putting a scenario
together for various pointer setups (array, complex element, str
From: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM
To: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM at IBMGB
Cc: "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele Zundo" <
michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 03/04/2019 16:50
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
Ok, I'll work on putting a scenario together for various pointer setups
(array, complex element, string) and show how it looks for both the JSON
and the binary.
I'm currently at a conference this week but will be returning late Thursday
so expect to be available for the call Friday.
I presented the TPF specific pointer implementation at the conference this
week and there are some that will be trying to use it soon.
Regards,
*Bradd Kadlecik*
z/TPF Development
------------------------------
*Phone:* 1-845-433-1573
* E-mail:* *braddk at us.ibm.com* <braddk at us.ibm.com>
2455 South Rd
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601-5400
United States
[image: Inactive hide details for Steve Hanson---04/03/2019 10:29:25
AM---Hi Bradd I have a few questions please ... inline below.]Steve
Hanson---04/03/2019 10:29:25 AM---Hi Bradd I have a few questions please
... inline below.
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM
To: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM at IBMUS
Cc: dfdl-wg at ogf.org, "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele
Zundo" <michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 04/03/2019 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
Hi Bradd
I have a few questions please ... inline below.
I'm still going to need a real worked example, starting with some actual
data and its schema, what it appears like after paring in the infoset, and
how unparsing lays it back out again.
Are you able to make the rescheduled call this Friday?
Regards
Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration, Hursley, UK
Architect, *IBM DFDL*
<http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/se-dfdl/index.html>
Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/>
*smh at uk.ibm.com* <smh at uk.ibm.com>
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Note: I work Tuesday to Friday
[image: Inactive hide details for Bradd Kadlecik---27/02/2019
22:22:48---Regarding proposal for offsets and pointers: The following are]Bradd
Kadlecik---27/02/2019 22:22:48---Regarding proposal for offsets and
pointers: The following are the properties to be defined:
From: Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM
To: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM at IBMGB
Cc: dfdl-wg at ogf.org, "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele
Zundo" <michele.zundo at esa.int>
Date: 27/02/2019 22:22
Subject: Re: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
Regarding proposal for offsets and pointers:
The following are the properties to be defined:
SMH: I was expecting to see these properties only on dfdl:element,
especially as you say '...the element contents... ?
indirectKind Enum
Valid values 'pointer', 'offset' (there is also a thought of objectId or
refId for handling BSON but not at this time)
Specifies the type of indirection used to access the element contents in
the data stream.
Annotation: dfdl:element, dfdl:simpleType, dfdl:choice, dfdl:sequence,
dfdl:group
SMH: I am missing the distinction between offset and pointer. Is one
relative to current position and the other relative to start of bitstream?
SMH: In earlier DFDL proposals for offset support, we had used the term to
refer to a property to be used to establish position of the *current*
element instead of assuming the current element followed straight after the
previous one. It would allow sparse modelling of fixed structures. The
offset could be relative to start of bitstream or some other point. I don't
think that's what you mean when you say 'offset' so I will refer to your
new concept as 'pointer'.
SMH: Assuming that indirectKind is a normal DFDL property, it can be in
scope. It would therefore need to have an enum 'None' which would be the
default used in most schemas.
indirectLength Non-negative Integer or DFDL expression
Specifies the length of the indirection in units according to the
indirectUnits property.
Annotation: dfdl:element, dfdl:simpleType, dfdl:choice, dfdl:sequence,
dfdl:group
indirectUnits Enum
Valid values 'bytes','bits'
Specifies the units to be used for reading or writing the indirection
according to indirectLength.
The default value is 'bytes'.
Annotation: dfdl:element, dfdl:simpleType, dfdl:choice, dfdl:sequence,
dfdl:group
SMH: I think a better approach is to provide a property dfdl:indirectType,
instead of indirectLength/indirectUnits, which refers to a simple type (not
element) that carries its own lengthKind, length & lengthUnits properties.
Similar idea to dfdl:prefixLengthType. That allows a lot of flexibility on
how the pointer can appear.
offsetBase non-empty string containing an absolute or relative XPath
expression for the base element.
Annotation: dfdl:element, dfdl:simpleType, dfdl:choice, dfdl:sequence,
dfdl:group
The proposal would be to have the contents of the indirection be after the
LeadingAlignment and before the TrailingAlignment. This would mean the
aligment and skip factors apply to the indirection values in the data
stream instead of the the contents of the indirection.
SMH: Agree.
This also then means in an array element, each element has its own
indirection value (pointer or offset) and the alignment,skip factors then
apply to each of these indirection values.
SMH: Do you mean '...each occurrence...' ?
It would be thought that the indirection values apply only to the data
stream and not the infoset. During parse when the infoset is populated from
the data stream, the indirection values are replaced by the contents.
During unparse, the indirection values don't exist in the infoset and are
created during the writing to/creation of the data stream.
SMH: I agree that the indirection should be a purely physical thing, but I
am not clear how the value is filled in when unparsing. Where does the
value come from? outputValueCalc? Or maybe it's not needed when unparsing,
and the data is always contiguous?
For pointers, a null pointer creates the scenario of either nil
representation or empty representation depending on whether or not nillable
is defined as true. Unless default values (or 0 occurrence) are defined for
all underlying content, then this is a processing error. During unparse,
the only scenario in which a null pointer would be created is for a nil
representation.
SMH: This needs more thought. The nil & default properties apply to the
*contents* of the indirection, not to the pointer. If you want to give a
nil semantic to the pointer value itself, then that would require a new
enum for dfdl:nilKind. I don't see why a pointer value 0 can't be treated
like any other indirection value. A missing pointer is an error - it must
be present - there is no way to control optionality because
minOccurs/maxOccurs apply to the contents. (Alternatively, if you want the
concepts of nil, default, occurs to apply to the indirect value, then
dfdl:indirectType could point at an element instead of a simple type - but
that seems way too over engineered).
Examples:
The following is the definition for the address of a null-terminated string
in which the string address may be NULL as indicated by a nillable value of
true:
<xs:element name="myString" type="xs:string" dfdl:lengthKind="delimited"
dfdl:encoding="UTF-8" dfdl:terminator="%NUL;" dfdl:indirectKind="pointer"
dfdl:indirectLength="8" dfdl:indirectUnits="bytes" nillable="true" />
The following is the definition for an array of three 4 byte addresses of a
complex element defined by ns0:myStruct:
<xs:element name="myArray" type="ns0:myStruct" dfdl:lengthKind="implicit"
dfdl:indirectKind="pointer" dfdl:indirectLength="4"
dfdl:indirectUnits="bytes" minOccurs="3" maxOccurs="3"
dfdl:occursCountKind="fixed" />
The following is the definition for a 4 byte offset to a 100 byte hexBinary
value from the start of the parent element definition:
<xs:element name="myData" type="xs:hexBinary" dfdl:lengthKind="explicit"
dfdl:length="100" dfdl:lengthUnits="bytes" dfdl:indirectKind="offset"
dfdl:indirectLength="4" dfdl:indirectUnits="bytes" dfdl:offsetBase=".." />
SMH: I don't see how unparsing works. What provides the value?
The proposal would also allow for the following optional item but I don't
currently see a need for this:
dfdl:offsetKind with values "startToStart" or "endToStart" - indicates if
the offset is from the start of the base element or the end of the base
element.
I tried getting this out before my vacation so it might take a little bit
to respond for issues. Thank you for your time.
Regards,
*Bradd Kadlecik*
z/TPF Development
------------------------------
*Phone:* 1-845-433-1573
* E-mail:* *braddk at us.ibm.com* <braddk at us.ibm.com>
2455 South Rd
Poughkeepsie, NY 12601-5400
United States
[image: Inactive hide details for Steve Hanson---02/07/2019 12:32:26
PM---Please find minutes from the latest call at https://redmine.o]Steve
Hanson---02/07/2019 12:32:26 PM---Please find minutes from the latest call
at https://redmine.ogf.org/projects/dfdl-wg/newsRegards Ste
From: Steve Hanson/UK/IBM
To: dfdl-wg at ogf.org
Cc: "Mike Beckerle" <mbeckerle at tresys.com>, "Michele Zundo" <
michele.zundo at esa.int>, Bradd Kadlecik/Poughkeepsie/IBM at IBMUS
Date: 02/07/2019 12:32 PM
Subject: Latest OGF DFDL WG Call Minutes
------------------------------
Please find minutes from the latest call at
*https://redmine.ogf.org/projects/dfdl-wg/news*
<https://redmine.ogf.org/projects/dfdl-wg/news>
Regards
Steve Hanson
IBM Hybrid Integration
Architect, IBM DFDL,
Co-Chair, *OGF DFDL Working Group* <http://www.ogf.org/dfdl/>
*smh at uk.ibm.com* <smh at uk.ibm.com>
tel:+44-1962-815848
mob:+44-7717-378890
Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
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