[dais-wg] DAIS telcon minutes for 3 May 2005

[Susan Malaika]

DAIS Telcon - 03/05/05
======================

Chair : Norman Paton
Notes : Mario Antonioletti

Attendees:
----------

Mario Antonioletti, EPCC
Dave Pearson, Oracle
Norman Paton, University of Manchester
Allen Luniewski, IBM
Susan Malaika, IBM
Hemant Kolwalkar, IBM
Simon Laws, IBM

Agenda:
-------

Review Relational Schema Model for CIM.

Actions:
--------

[Norman] Create a list of options for update of disconnected data sets.

[Simon]  Write up the top level IO operation to go in the core spec.

[Mario/Simon/Amy] Look at DAIS issue 1200 and either decide what needs
to done to resolve this and respond accordingly on
Grid Forge or flag it as an issue that needs to be
discussed at some future telcon.

[Mario] Continue working on the DAIS contribution to the data
architecture.

[Susan] Look into how the XML attributes and elements for the resource
properties relate to the DMTF CIM model.

-----


Key points for discussion:

- (1) Determine what has to be done so that the CIM model and resulting
schema are acceptable to DAIS.
- (2) Walk through the current model.
- Note: do not have XML schemas yet - no consensus regarding the style
or tooling to be used to generate the XML schema.

Summary Of Follow Up Items Needed:
- Go after a namespace for the XML representation of the properties of the 
resources in the model
- Clarify namespace scope (entry point, version etc)
- Give feedback to DMTF on XML style required for DAIS
- Clarify how vendor specific extensions work in the CIM model
- Clarify where capabilities go 

See discussion from the call below
.................................................

Default speaker is Susan Malaika.

Can we just rely on a name space or do we require a schema?

Norman: will not block the DAIS progress regarding the generation of
the XML schema but it would be nice to have some input into
its generation.

Likely to be a while before the XML schema is sorted. Trying to
get agreement on a namespace. Can give feedback/input into the
XML Schema through a white paper.

Dave: do we think that the document that Susan and Norman wrote gives
enough direction for the DMTF to specify schema?

Not that one. We do not want XMI style XML.

The schemas will be fairly flat, need to determine how they are
wrapped - the root element - and how we would use them. There is a
second document which I've worked on - not public yet - which could
have some examples. Some extra pieces that we would like to the CIM
model.

There is a change request underway at the DMTF to try to define where the 
relational mdel ties into the current CIM model

...

*A rational representation of the model is presented and a walk
through is made*

Norman: to what extent do vendors follow an SQL 99 standard in their
data dictionary?

The CIM model can include vendor specific extensions.

Dave: from what is being described vendors will be able to map a
vanilla SQL99 on to this model. Can vendors extend the model
though in a way which reflect specific vendor implementations?

That is "business as usual" for the DMTF.

Dave: but there needs to be a standard way of generating extensions
though so that users can interpret the data in the extensions.

The UML and the MOF that the DMTF produces allows for vendor specific
extensions.

Dave: I'm sure that DMTF provides standard mechanisms but they have
to try and define them in the same way.

I think that there is a typing mechanism - there is some form of
extensions.  Will make sure that this is very clear.

...

Norman: the more of the SQL 99 spec that gets incorporated the better.
Also the case that it would be fine for DAIS if this came
through in steps. Completeness is good but a rolling program
would be alright but the sooner this is done the better.

Do we expect one XML schema for the whole thing? and people would issue
XPath into the whole thing? Where does the relevant part of the CIM
model start?

We could make a recommendation for DAIS to start off at the SQL object
root.

Norman: that would be fine.

Hemant: just cleaning up the model at the moment

Mario: is the namespace going to be used as a versioning mechanism?

That is another decision that we need to make - would have to specify
what version of the CIM model is used.

Dave: that is something that we will need to identify - what version
of the CIM model is being used.

Do we want to tie the DAIS spec to the SQLObject and then a version?

Dave: we need an attribute that gives us the version.

Norman: do not want to tie down to a given version.

We need to determine what version is being used then...

Norman: we need to understand what versioning and naming scheme they
will use.


Dave: what about the resource capabilities? Does the current
definition include those descriptions?

No, seen as being outside the SQL99 model.

Dave: DMTF have started to define this ...

capabilities are required then

Dave: with distributed queries it is important to be able to determine
this.

are we saying that we would like the DMTF to take this on-board?

Dave: we ought to make them aware that we are interested in
information that describes the capabilities and that we would
also be willing to give input about what capabilities are
important.

Do we have a place where capabilities could go?

Hemant: there is something in the catalogue...

We would have to see where capabilities can go, if there is a good
place already.

Norman: worth noting, something needs to be said in the DAIS specs
about extensions to the CIM model - if capabilities were to be
included in the CIM model then one could provide this
information in DAIS ... it might be possible to have hooks
where we put metadata which state what bits of the CIM model
this DAIS implementation populates

The whole model being in one namespace?

Norman: just how people populate ... the version of the product that you
run behind the scenes. You might - or might not - want to expose
that.

So SQL Object may not be the root as you might be interested in another
things?

Norman: we are interested in several distinct things. This has some
bearing on how you approach the whole thing.

Dave: I agree, it would be interesting to see if CIM offers different
entry points that you might want to investigate.

So, we just want an XML representation without any management stuff.

Simon: we are just interested in the types.

Will circulate my document in a few days and update the model and
make it public on the DAIS web site.

Will give checkpoints on progress.

Mario: so do we pull the explicit CIM stuff from the relational spec.

Norman: yes.

---


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Mario Antonioletti:EPCC,JCMB,The King's Buildings,Edinburgh EH9 3JZ.   |
|Tel:0131 650 5141|mario at epcc.ed.ac.uk|http://www.epcc.ed.ac.uk/~mario/ |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.ogf.org/pipermail/dais-wg/attachments/20050506/e9d2a961/attachment.htm