On Tue, Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM <[1]jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:

     On 2020-10-28 06:46, Karl wrote:
     > The rest of things you say appear overstated (partly false) to
     me.  I
     > overstate things too.

   We should focus on things like what happened to Cecilia and everyone's
   pgp signatures.

     I would love to debate rape and sexual harassment with you.

   Maybe with more listening to views different from ours (and a victim's
   views present?).

     We, meaning we white straight Christian males, would love to
     suppress
     rape and sexual harassment, but women are not cooperating.
     The only way to suppress it is to go back to

     eighteenth century, or

     better, the very similar Old Testament, law and custom on sex and
     family, in which the victim and complainant is the man who has
     rightful
     authority over the woman's sexual and reproductive services, and her
     consent is only relevant to her guilt, not to the guilt of the man
     who
     had sex with her, or took her behind closed doors.

   No need for guilt; looking only for safety and predictability in
   communities.
   What brings you to share these expressions, here, on this list?
   There's a good chance many could see things very differently from you.

     Today's rural Hindu India still has the good stuff, as do some parts
     of
     Dar Al Islam.  Works fine for them.  Ours is not working for us.
     > I remember when a girl was raped in the bathroom on the floor
     above me in
     > college.
     >
     > Men from out of state stood outside it, guarding it, while it
     happened.
     > That one was real, at least.
     And were the men guarding it, and the man who did it, busted?
     How do you know it was real?

   (if you spend some time listening caringly to women, you learn it
   usually is, and is very widespread, and often accompanied by medically
   validated injuries and lifelong psychological traits retelling the
   experience in behavior.  But "for the list" , "of course" , "there is
   no rape".)

     If it was real, they got away with it.  If punished, unreal, or at
     least
     unreal in the sense that white Christian straight males conceive of
     rape.
     Everyone can see what is happening with sexual harassment charges.
     I
     can see, in a statistically insignificant number of cases, what is
     happening with rape charges, and data such as the University of
     Virginia
     gives me statistically significant confirmation.

References

   1. mailto:jamesd@echeque.com