I'd rather talk about evil though. What do you do when people are led
to believe that good people are evil, and engage in great harm upon
them to try to make the world right, and are then labeled as evil
themselves because of this harm?
Personally I believe that all evil is such situations. Every single fucking person has a deeply caring
heart if you sit down and listen to them. _Every_single_person_.
K
-
There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a
marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A
virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and
changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters
political behavior en masse, for profit.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 9:28 AM Karl <[1]gmkarl@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Zenaan.
You have written too many strange interpretations of my words here for
me to comprehend them. It sounds like you are implying I misspoke?
I VALUE THE PRESERVATION OF _ALL_ SOULS, AND SO DO YOU.
K
-
There is proof inside many peoples' electronics. Proof that a
marketing group would contract development of a frightening virus. A
virus that responds to peoples' keystrokes and browsing habits, and
changes what people see on their devices. A virus that alters
political behavior en masse, for profit.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 9:07 AM Zenaan Harkness <[2]zen@freedbms.net>
wrote:
On Mon, Aug 03, 2020 at 07:26:11AM -0400, Karl wrote:
> I'll respond to each thing you said with fewer words than you
used, for
> clarity.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 12:09 AM Zenaan Harkness
<[3]zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 11:13:37PM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > > You didn't respond to my one question to understand you other
than
> > "no"! =(
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 10:32 PM Zenaan Harkness
<[4]zen@freedbms.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I'm aware of whites killing blacks for sport, in the
present day. I
> > > > don't
> > > > > have exposure to blacks killing whites, and honestly there
are so
> > many of
> > > > > us and our way of life seems so harmful to me, it seems
the lesser
> > issue
> > > > to
> > > > > me.
> >
> >
> > Karl, you said: "whites [are] killing blacks for sport"
> >
> > You then said: "[regarding] blacks killing whites ... there are
so many of
> > us and our way of life seems so harmful ..., it seems the lesser
issue to
> > me"
> >
> >
> > Karl, do you wish to rephrase these words you used?
> >
> > At the moment, I am hearing you sanctioning the killing of
Whites, by
> > Blacks, because "there are so many of us" and also because, you
say, "our
> > way of life seems so harmful".
> >
>
> I do not sanction any kind of killing. I prioritize whose life to
save.
Karl, you say, and I'll quote only one last time: "blacks killing
whites ... seems the lesser issue to me", and you say this
immediately after alleging "whites killing blacks for sport", and so
with these words, and with this juxtaposition that you put to us,
you dismiss the killing of whites, by blacks, as "the lesser issue
to [you]".
You then give two justifications for the killing of whites by blacks
(in comparison to the purported by you, killing of blacks by whites)
when you say both a) "honestly there are so many of us" and b) "our
way of life seems so harmful to me".
>From these words there is no statement from you that you wish to
preserve the lives of whites, only to blame them for "killing blacks
for sport" which you allege to be true in "recent times", and in
fact, you dismiss (in these words you use) the preservation of the
lives of whites, repeatedly, with your stated justifications and
with your statement further below that "Death happens: the question
is whether we hold it as a goal".
So according to you Karl, when it comes to whites killing blacks it
happens as you allege "for sport" and you seem to imply that we must
stop this "to preserve blacks" and according to you we must "fight
to preserve .. their [blacks] numbers", but when it comes to blacks
killing whites, you justify your failure to defend the right of
whites to live (to "preserve their numbers") because you say
"honestly there are so many of us" and further you add that 'our way
of life is "so harmful"', and you say these things without any
suggestion that the numbers ought be irrelevant (in fact you raised
the very issue that the numbers of "white lives" is in fact a ground
on which you dismiss the preservation of white lives).
Karl, based on this exchange so far, you are using words, and
defending positions which you are putting to us, which are abhorrent
to any Soul who values all others, all lives irrespective of skin
color, and these positions when held sufficiently, lead directly to
great despotism upon people.
Further, you appear either intentionally or unintentionally
oblivious to the plain implications which normal people infer and
take from your apparently quite carefully chosen words (and if you
did not personally choose your words, but merely parrot what others
have said to you, then you are not a thinking person of these words,
and in that case you are speaking carelessly, but still very
dangerously).
Further, you repeatedly deny the existence of evil, and below say
that you "do not believe in evil", and that you "do not believe
anything opposes the life of another" (again, these are your exact
words) and you say further that bullets used to murder another are
not an example of evil, but instead show us only that bullets and
murderers are according to you "[only] isolated parts of the system
that relate to producing the death, coming out in placing human
blame on a metal bullet without context" - and you say this is
without context, even though the context was named (murder) and even
though in fact it was you who raised this very context (the
purported killing of blacks for "sport") and you conclude all this
by saying that "behaviour we hate can exist in systems we love" (as
though those words explain your position and as though "hate" has
nothing to do with evil, since evil according to you does not exist,
and whites who you purport 'murder blacks for sport' are not evil
but are merely people who according to you "just believe different
things are good than we do").
Karl I take an opposite position on evil to you, I stand for
righteousness, and I stand against evil, I choose to stand in the
face of those who engage in evil, in particular murder and genocide
of any sub group in our community, and I seek that such people be
held to full account for such evil deeds.
I have a conscience, and by my conscience I know good from evil, and
I stand for good, and I stand opposed to evil!
Karl, to me you appear very mixed up, unable to acknowledge simple
evil acts which you yourself put to us, and you appear mixed up to
the point of being a real danger, a cog in a machine which has a
hidden intention to bring a great evil upon us all.
To the extent that you are highlighting this brainwashing to us, you
are useful to us.
To the extent that you brainwash others with the same program which
you are evidently enmeshed within, and to the extent that you
support this evil program within others who are already brainwashed
(by your words both denying and justifying evil), then you are
acting in a way both contrary to your own interests, but critically,
as a menace to us all.
By holding so strongly to your contradictions of the basic question
of good versus evil, Karl you demonstrate that you are quite
possibly a great danger, a source of evil propaganda which has a
"denied agenda", possibly not visible even to your own self, and a
source of a quite sophisticated justification for evil acts done by
others.
Karl, I suggest you pray for redemption, and pray that your eyes and
your conscience be opened so that you might see that which is hidden
to you and is inside the words you are using, and pray that you see
such things so that you might stop spreading such damaging words,
and so that you might therefore not damage others with your
confusion.
If you find it difficult to pray, then find Christians who pray, and
ask them to pray for you.
---------------------------------
> Death happens: the question is whether we hold it as a goal.
>
> It was clear in what I said that I was not sanctioning killing.
>
> It sounds like you are shocked or angered hearing my views of
whites as
> having a harmful way of life, and being less important to fight to
preserve
> due to their numbers? Please answer this question, I am still a
beginner
> in learning to hear and understand others and need some guidance I
> understand.
>
> And again Karl, when I read these words you used, I hear you
sanctioning,
> > that is justifying and almost explicitly supporting "blacks
killing whites"
> > for those two reasons that you cited.
>
>
> >
> > Again I ask you Karl, do you wish to retract what you appear to
be saying?
> >
>
> Your words, not mine. I murder children already myself, learning
to stop
> with this kind BLM movement as inspiration. Saw a lot of black
people die.
>
> Or, do you wish to re-word what you are saying so that it is
clearer,
> > reflecting more accurately in some way, what you're (trying to)
say?
>
>
> >
> > The rest of the conversation below, whether you meant it to or
not, flows
> > from this beginning of this conversation, and so until we get
clarity and
> > reach an accord or understanding of one another here at the
beginning, then
> > the rest will likely be, at best, talking at "crossed purposes
to one
> > another" as they say...
> >
>
> This is because we have emotions, I suppose.
>
> >
> > (PS, you complain at the top there, of me providing
"insufficient" answer
> > to one of your many unclear sentences which was at the very
bottom of your
> > email, yet we appear stuck at the beginning, where you have
either
> > overlooked, or perhaps not understood what I was asking you in
some detail
> > and clarity (see immediately below)...)
> >
>
> You imply blame on me for you sticking at the beginning here.
Maybe you
> picked up my frustration at responding to so many following things
that
> charge the emotions from a place I don't understand.
>
> What's relevent is that asking the question comes before stating
> differences. Reduces disconnection.
>
> > > Your almost explicit sanctioning (in the words you chose to
use) of the
> > > > "culling of one subgroup of our community" is abhorrent, no
matter the
> > skin
> > > > colour of the sub group you target in this way.
> > > >
> > > > And your stated excuse that "our way of life seems harmful
to me" can
> > > > never ever be a sufficient excuse for the culling of ANY sub
group of
> > ANY
> > > > colour.
> > > >
> > > > Sanction the culling of one sub group (as these words just
did) and you
> > > > sanction the culling of any and every sub group, i.e.
everybody, which
> > is
> > > > despotism, and makes you look like a despot when you say
such things.
> >
> >
> >
> > > You are saying that all groups (all people) are precious,
right? I agree
> > > with this strongly. And what do you think of long term trends
of change?
> >
>
> To reiterate, I believe all groups (all people) are precious,
quoted
> above. This clarifies my starting statement.
>
> >
> > > This is one of the problems in the "Black" Lives Matter
movement - people
> > > > get lulled into literal extermination agendas, thinking they
are
> > signalling
> > > > great virtue by doing so.
> > > >
> > >
> > > This makes no sense to me.
> >
> > I have asked you again - see above.
> >
>
> We don't want to exterminate people. <== Please reread my sentence
and
> understand it. "We" here refers to you, and me.
>
> This is a connecting point between us and opens an avenue to
discuss how to
> work together.
>
> > When we sanction the murder of a sub group, we sanction the
destruction of
> > > > the lives of our fellow Souls, and this is a despotic
position, an evil
> > > > position that you appear to take (evil is that which opposes
my life,
> > for
> > > > any individual value of "my").
> > > >
> > >
> > > By finding a shared concept between us, you are mediating.
> > >
> > > I do not believe in evil. I do not believe anything opposes
the life of
> > > another.
> >
> > Bullets, when accurately shot, directly oppose the life of a
human.
> >
> > Are you saying this is not true?
> >
>
> Yes; you're focusing only on the isolated parts of the system that
relate
> to producing the death, coming out in placing human blame on a
metal bullet
> without context.
>
> > Engaging another life at all indicates value for its spirit in
> > > some way.
> >
> > You said evil does not exist.
> >
> > You earlier said that you are personally aware of Whites
shooting Blacks
> > for sport.
> >
> > And, now you say that evil does not exist.
> >
>
> I'm used to holding both of these. It means behavior we hate can
exist in
> systems we love. With some contemplation you can see they don't
contradict.
>
> The fact that you say both that you are personally aware of Whites
shooting
> > Blacks for sport, and that evil does not exist, is very strange.
> >
> > As puported by you, those "Whites shooting Blacks for sport",
would seem
> > on any view of your assertion (presented to us with zero facts
in support)
> > to be a plain and simple example of some people opposing the
lives of
> > others (with such intent that they would murder them "for
sport").
> >
> > Why do you say that your own assertion (as fact-free as it is at
this
> > point in time to me) that you know of "Whites killing Blacks for
sport", is
> > NOT an example of evil?
> >
>
> What is evil to you? To me it seems made up to cause war. People
who harm
> just believe different things are good than we do. Productive
> communication both parties value and hear resolves that.
>
> > We must live a higher ethic collectively, and Karl, I encourage
you to do
> > > > so.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks. Let's archive this list on a blockchain.
> >
> > I think there is not a lot of benefit to doing so, and many more
important
> > jobs we could do anyway.
> >
>
> It is great to start working with you. What do you know to be
important?
> I make a lot of decisions based on fear of cover-up/cleanup. I
see
> preservation as saving lives and aiding in making good decisions
later.
>
> > > Before we came to the USA where I lived, it was covered in
free black
> > > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > This makes no sense to me. I cannot understand what you are
saying, by
> > > > reading the words you wrote.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sorry, I wrote "lived" instead of "live". Does that clear it
up? Before
> >
> > No.
> >
>
> Hrm .. is this related to China?
>
>
> > > white people came to the western continent I live on, it was
covered in
> > > indigenous folk who had well established ways of life that
mostly need
> >
> > So "indigenous folk of North America" are black, or I guess you
just
> > referred to them as black?
>
>
> > There are very real and different racial issues in the USA, and
I don't
> > think conflating them is very useful.
> >
>
> Seems to be to me. African and Native people both had their
aboriginal
> cultures and histories destroyed by the urges of white people; the
> similarity is helpful in making decisions to protect the world.
There.is
> something about us we [5]need.to reign in, or people die en masse.
>
> > large tracts of healthy wilderness in order to not die off.
> >
> > So, some "bad shit" has happened in the past.
> >
> > I agree with you.
> >
> > There are many examples, for example the current Australian
Aborigines are
> > actually from India, and only some 4000 years on this continent,
before
> > which there were an exclusively Polynesian population who were
almost
> > completely massacred into non-existence by the migrating
Indians. There
> > were also the smalls who lived in the Blue Mountains area West
of Sydney,
> > New South Wales, and they were also massacred into non existence
by the
> > present day "Aborigines" from sub continental India.
> >
> > Yes, some bad shit has happened and inside of humans is the
capacity for
> > great evil.
>
>
> Here I can more agree with the word "evil" - behaviors, not
people.
>
> Roughly, all people need to be able to live their lives. We are
asking for
> ways to come together to make things right.
>
> We're arguing a lot as we learn to listen before ourselves
expressing.
>
> --------- end of responses
> >
> >
> >
> > > > We have yet to give their few remaining cultures and
grandchildren
> > > > > recompense for their genocide for us to replace their
culture with
> > ours.
> > > >
> > > > Again, this is, unfortunately, very unclear, and appears to
assume
> > > > collectivist guilt (a fundamentally Marxist propaganda) and
other
> > > > communication problems.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tell me about collectivist guilt; never heard of it. Is
Marxism relevent
> > > and inherently bad? I don't know its details.
> > >
> > > My main point is not culling these numerous groups.
> > >
> > > Indigenous groups appear to struggle to survive. Their
treaties are not
> > > respected. Their land is craftily taken for profit like
mining
> > > operations. Their people are indoctrinated to buy and consume
things as
> > a
> > > new way of life. These things are a small subset of how we
are culling
> > > them.
> > >
> > > If you wish to help heal the world, I suggest learning to
speak (write)
> > > > more clearly, for example, by limiting each sentence to a
single
> > concept.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what's new to you, but I've edited some sentences
to
> > separate
> > > things out.
> > >
> > > (It is a bully tactic to combine multiple unclear and
unsupported
> > concepts
> > > > into one mashed up sentence, and for those unaware, presents
too great
> > a
> > > > barrier to defend themselves, or to defend sanity, against
such
> > bullying.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is a bad habit I have. I used to call it oppression and
avoid it, I
> > > don't remember what kind.
> > >
> > > It seems a little helpful to bully back when there's too much,
confusing.
> > >
> > >
> > > ====Cool sentence below====
> > >
> > > > Please stop using such bullying techniques.
> > > >
> > > ====Rad sentence above====
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > We then went to Africa and did the same. We have had 1 male
black
> > > > > president; my black roommate in college said his high
school advisor
> > told
> > > > > him he would never be able to go to college. Mine gave me
many to
> > choose
> > > > > from.
> > > >
> > > > Again a mish mash of concepts and partial "non" facts - I
realise you
> > may
> > > > be trying to speak from facts, but your facts are not my
facts except
> > that
> > > > you slow down, presenting them in a way that others can
hear, and
> > actually
> > > > discuss with you.
> > > >
> > > > If you don't want discussion, then again this would be your
choice to
> > use
> > > > such bullying tactics.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you say what you mean here? It's not helpful to slow
down? What
> > kind
> > > of facts do you have?
> > >
> > > > I have been a cyberslave myself, and know some terror of
running until
> > > > your
> > > > > shoes break and your feet get frostbite, to escape from an
> > environment
> > > > > where everybody you can reach supports you not being
free. There are
> > > > still
> > > > > people who believe blacks to be slaves, and they act on
their
> > beliefs in
> > > > > terrifying ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are fewer black people than white people. We need
to protect
> > them
> > > > or
> > > > > they will die off.
> > > >
> > > > Again you make assertions without support of facts.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you asking for supporting evidence to believe what I say?
If so it's
> > > not hard to find and I may be able to add a little if you
really don't
> > > believe these things; but I am on a $20 mobile phone.
> > >
> > > That is a diatribe, not a conversation.
> > > >
> > > > You may or may not want conversation - that is a matter for
you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I feel this way about your end too.
> > >
> > > You might want to ground your words in truth rather than in
propaganda.
> > > > Without truth, how do you know whose agenda you are pushing,
perhaps
> > even
> > > > thinking it is your own agenda?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't know what you are talking about here, and I'm
irritated to have
> > to
> > > say that. Agendas are in all of our culture. Truth is
reality which I
> > > stated. Personal reasons are also very important for me, and
it would be
> > > good if we could give each other the trust of relating our
experienced
> > with
> > > relevent honesty. Are you asking for evidence? Of something
in
> > particular?
> > >
> > > (For one example, why are you proposing to massively increase
the
> > > > population in China of blacks, just to achieve some
misguided idea of
> > > > "equality in China" - do you thing the Chinese would agree
with you
> > that
> > > > they should massively increase theil Black population so you
can
> > "appease
> > > > your White guilt"??)
> > > >
> > >
> > > It seems.obvious to me that what you are saying here makes no
sense.
> > China
> > > was the tiananmen thing some time ago?
> > >
> > > Mediation comes from my heart. I've never been to China.
> > >
> > > > People talking about white racism seem to be describing
minority
> > rights as
> > > > > unfair ... That it hurts white people to defend black
people?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It is so hard to learn from such a short answer. It sounds
like you
> > > believe white people are being wiped out by black people?
> > >
> > > (I'm imagining a graph of population here, but I don't want to
argue with
> > > you when I need to learn where you come from to stop
threatening your
> > > views.)
> > >
> > > Karl, good communication is not easy, it takes real effort and
practice
> > and
> > > > writing, and reviewing your own words and rewriting as
necessary.
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is so painful and reminds me of my childhood of
bullying! You talk
> > > about China like it is relevent!
> > >
> > > What you mean to say is that both of us are rapidly learning
to become
> > > incredibly good communicators ;P
> > >
> > > But thank you I do need the pressure. Hard next to politics.
> > >
> > > If you make efforts, some will assist. If you stick to cheap
bullying and
> > > > other tactics, little space is left for meaningful
communication.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Spirit never dies. Meaningful communication is the only thing
that
> > exists.
> >
>
> - phone signature goes here
>
> >
References
1. mailto:gmkarl@gmail.com
2. mailto:zen@freedbms.net
3. mailto:zen@freedbms.net
4. mailto:zen@freedbms.net
5. http://need.to/