On 12/23/2016 05:27 PM, jim bell wrote:

   From: Rayzer [1]<Rayzer@Riseup.net>
   On 12/23/2016 04:07 PM, jim bell opined:

   >>That outburst simply shows that you don't believe in the concept of
   'private property', which is often defined as 'the right to exclude
   others'.   Ironically, Communists (of which you are obviously one)
   believe in the concept of public, or collective, ownership.
   >>Nations such as Venezuela are doing so well these days due to the
   wonders of Socialism.
   >>            Jim Bell

   >You aren't talking about "Collective" anything because collectives
   don't "Exclude" anyone in the sense you mean it...
   If a "collective" doesn't take the position that a given property is
   owned by everyone in the world, it is "excluding" the rest.

   Collective. Let's say I'm a carpenter who makes furniture with
   political leanings towards anarchism and the collective I meet is
   within those parameters. In an anarchist society you wouldn't be
   "Excluded" from that collective. You may not have decision making
   rights until some other criteria are met, but you ARE part of that
   collective. Exclusion IS NOT an Anarchist ethic. You don't carry a
   card.
   Some collectives a larger and more encompassing... For instance the IWW
   and more recently CrimethInc.

   > and not-so-ironically I don't believe you're anything more than a
   right-wing Republican.
   And you are pretending to be unaware that for 40+ years, libertarians
   have been viewed by lefties as "right-wing Republicans", and have been
   viewed by righties as "left-wing Democrats".   Your saying what you
   think libertarians are classifies you as well as anything.

   In the US they are right wing republicans.  Whereas there's a great
   deal of confusion about what left means because anything to the 'left'
   of ... Oh let's say Donald Trump, is 'left'... But Libertarian has
   definable parameters that are easily observed in the US. White. Middle
   Class. Socially Liberal with a NOT SO LIBERAL economic belief. Use
   words like Communist, Marxist, Anarcho-Syndicalist, etc if you want to
   define what you mean by left because a Dixiecrat Democrat (constituting
   the majority philosophical underpinning of the Democratic party whether
   they're from "Dixie" or not) is not to the left of anything socially or
   economically.

   >Obviously.
   >There are at least 35 million homeless citizens in the US. That's
   about ten percent of the total population. Many of them are working and
   living in cars and shelters. Many of them are children.
   And there are probably 20+ million illegal aliens in America.

   Eaten any good strawberries or lettuce recently? Actually, I mis-speak
   because I drove truck from the fields of California and they ALL had
   green cards. Every single one of them I ever met. Which is good.
   Because you wouldn't have any strawberries or lettuce without them
   seeing as white people have an aversion to hard labor that won't make
   the rent pay-wise.
   So where exactly are the illegal aliens? Doing nudie photoshoots
   without work permits and marrying Donald Trump. Working at an Armour
   meat packing plant in Iowa after the company arranged to have them
   brought directly there. Making US military supplies at a Pentagon
   contracted factory in Maine (the company was allowed to keep the
   contract too)
   In other words, rich white males hire them, and a LOT of those RWMs
   would consider themselves libertarian too!
   And you still haven't responded to the contention below that the
   Venezuelan "Socialist" government isn't the primary reason for their
   economic woes, albeit a dependence on a very volatile oil market isn't
   helping, OR Saudi Arabia's failing economy for that matter, that
   Venezuela is continually being destabilized by direct US covert
   operations and it's surrounding US Satrap nations like the narco-state
   Colombia.
   The Cuban economy is doing quite fine... Has done quite fine over the
   last half century despite the fact that CIA gusanos dropped diseased
   chickens on the island and wiped out their poultry industry etc.
   You'd be a fucking idiot if you think the CIA isn't doing that sort of
   thing to Venezuela.
   Rr

     "Photo: Associated Press reporter Matt Lee laughs at a US State
     Department Spokesperson’s contention the U.S. is NOT involved in the
     recent Venezuelan coup attempt"

     I notice that anti-government Venezuelans control about 2/3s of its
     legislature, and are following the law to have Maduro removed from
     power, but they are being illegally and unconstitutionally thwarted
     by  Maduro and his cronies.

      Jim Bell

References

   1. mailto:Rayzer@Riseup.net