On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:41 PM, <[1]xorcist@sigaint.org> wrote:

     > No, this is Putin's baby. He's set it up so that if he can't have
     Ukraine,
     > nobody will.
     No, it is quite likely that the coup in Ukraine was instigated and
     organized by U.S. interests.
     There are a lot of interests that would have good reason to do so.
     Economic: Soros, Geithner, and pals have been looking to depress the
     Russian currency for years. At least back to 2008, that I am aware
     of. One
     can speculate why, the simplest reason is to make money themselves.
     NATO: Yanukovych's government was Russian-leaning, while there were
     "Orange Revolution" leaning politicians, activists, and so on in
     Western
     Ukraine. Having Ukraine be Russian-leaning, and theoretically
     independent
     puts NATO in a difficult position. Poland and Romania are NATO
     members,
     with Ukraine right between them. For supply-line and airspace
     reasons, it
     is strongly desirable to NATO interests to bring Ukraine under the
     umbrella. This also provides another, angle of attack on Moscow.
     Understand the situation: NATO is encircling Moscow. Estonia and
     Lativa to
     it's NW, Lithuania due-West, with Belarus as a buffer. Both
     countries are
     positioned to place rockets within 800km of Moscow. If Ukraine were
     to go
     NATO, it also would be able to position rockets or troops within
     800km of
     Moscow from the SW, with no buffer. Assuming Russia is unconcerned
     about
     Lithuania, trusting Belarus to be able to intercept any aerial
     attacks,
     that still leaves the possibility for simultaneous attacks from two
     directions.
     It is entirely unacceptable, from a purely strategic of view. These
     nations going to NATO represents an existential threat to Russia.
     Putin's response, of "taking" Crimea, was quite measured, in my
     opinion.
     The Black Sea is of vital national interest. Were  NATO able to get
     a
     carrier group into the to Black Sea, along with the other listed
     positions, it would be impossible to stop the capital from getting
     captured in an invasion.
     Finally, your suggestion that Putin is somehow not letting the "poor
     Ukrainians" from exercising their rights is blinded. The fact is,
     there
     are BOTH strong pro-Western, and pro-Russian sides to Ukraine. This
     is not
     a recent development. The tensions have been there for several
     generations.
     Whether you like it or not, it is Putin's job to protect his country
     and
     to prevent the very ABILITY for foreign nations to have that
     potential,
     regardless of whether or not you believe NATO has the will to do so.
     Regardless of the will, it should not be POSSIBLE from Russia's
     perspective.
     That said, it is also arguably NATO's job to expand, and to position
     itself so that Russia joining NATO, becomes the only strategy left
     to the
     Russians.
     This, of course, is called Empire

   I staked out a stronger position than I actually hold, a hopefully
   forgivable mistake in response to Zenaan's black-and-white "Russia
   good, US evil" propagandizing. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

References

   1. mailto:xorcist@sigaint.org