On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Steve Kinney <[1]admin@pilobilus.net>
   wrote:

     On 09/23/2016 08:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
     > So the US government appears set on complete destruction of
     > Ukraine. Doesn't even make strategic sense at this point. I guess
     > unless you're an essentially evil Western oligarch who wants to
     > carve it up for purchase on the cheap, the people, the Russians,
     > and the world be damned.
     In the context of the Cold War, now arriving at the boiling point
     due
     to the Bush/Obama Administration's belligerent posture toward
     Russia,
     the U.S. annexation of Ukraine via a (literally) Nazi proxy force
     makes strategic sense:  It was a destabilizing military and economic
     provocation against the Russian Federation, and has been followed by
     a
     massive conventional force buildup on Europe's eastern borders,
     adding
     pressure to the weight of U.S. controlled strategic nuclear assets
     that were /already/ present on that border.  These deployments must
     be
     countered, which ties up Russian military assets and reduces that
     country's force projection capabilities in North Africa and the
     Middle
     East.
     Russia's continuing support of the ethnic Russian enclave on
     Ukraine's
     eastern border also makes strategic sense:  It prevents full
     consolidation of power by the U.S. installed government, prevents
     routine deployment of East-facing U.S. controlled forces on the
     Ukraine/Russian border, and provides a potential haven for Ukrainian
     insurgents working against the government in Kiev.
     Crimea's value to Russia is self explanatory, and I do not recall
     hearing anything about the populace turning out to protest the
     orderly
     handover of power to Russia in preference to a U.S. sponsored gang
     of
     (literal) Nazis.  Rather the opposite, and I saw no evidence that
     the
     U.S. even /tried/ to retain Crimea.

   I don't disagree with this, but I will say that I think there are other
   equally valid interpretations that don't involve words like "annex",
   which I think applies far more to Russia with Crimea than it does to
   the US w.r.t. the rest of Ukraine. On the other hand, the main
   innovation of the US flavor of imperialism is the more subtle/opaque
   means by which it achieves its ends, thus ensuring that one can easily
   interpret it as not imperialism. Not that the Russians are above
   subterfuge; they're just not in a position to as easily use it in this
   situation.

     The "USA Number One!" mentality of comfortable Middle Class
     Amerikans
     makes sense of a kind: Their continued material prosperity relative
     to
     the former Working Class /does/ depend on global terrorism, enforced
     poverty, mass murder, cities reduced to rubble and refugee columns,
     etc. as the U.S. war of global economic conquest continues.  They
     deserve to see the same things happen to their own children and
     families, and if they continue to get their own way they WILL see
     that
     - - unless they happen to be closer to ground zero "on the day."
     Unfortunately, this cheerful little scenario involves dragging those
     /not/ responsible for all that human misery and heaped, dead burnt
     bodies down into the same hell.

   This is by no means unique or even more prevalent in the United States
   than elsewhere. The way for any government to retain its power is by
   convincing a large enough segment of the population that it's better
   off than it would be under some other situation they think they can
   achieve. Cognitive assonance does the rest. I certainly suffer from it
   as much as anyone. I like to think I'm more enlightened than the
   average person in my position, but TBH I have no idea what I'll do when
   the shit hits the fan. What I do know is that my family comes before
   any kind of ideology. Which in a sense is just selfishness, but I do
   feel like I was far more able to do things on behalf of ideology that
   were not in my immediate self-interest before I had kids.

     The real conflict here is not West vs. East or even USA vs. The Rest
     Of The World.  It is the human race, vs. its own parasitic ruling
     class and their faithful servants.  The parasites have already lost;
     if they do not surrender their power voluntarily (impossible),
     environmental limits enforced by the laws of physics will destroy
     that
     power (inevitable).  Now the only game in town is about reducing the
     final body count, which no rational scenario places at less than a
     couple of billion, and preserving essential long term survival
     resources for the survivors.  And that's where radical populist
     politics enters the scene.  Communication is vitally important in
     political warfare, and providing the best possible tools to Our Side
     is the mission that makes "cypherpunk" bullshit worth doing.

    I don't share your pessimism as to bodycount, but that could be
   wishful thinking.

References

   1. mailto:admin@pilobilus.net