On 10/30/2015 11:02 AM, Sean Lynch wrote:

   On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 10:33 AM Razer <[1]Rayzer@riseup.net> wrote:

     I think there's a place for individualism within collectivism but
     the
     collective comes first.

   This I can't really agree with. There is no collective without the
   individual, and why should any individual be part of such a thing if it
   doesn't benefit him or her?

   In a word "Survival".

   I recognize that we share the planet and that we all benefit from the
   existence of society, but I think the only obligation that places upon
   us is to give at least as much as we take.

   Sorry, as an anarchist I have to say it's an anarchist's responsibility
   to take responsibility for the well-being of all members of the
   collective, which for me includes ALL humankind.

   But at the end of the day the only people qualified to make the
   determination of whether an individual's contribution is adequate is
   the individual and anyone considering entering into some kind of
   exchange/relationship/whatever with that individual.

   That is the antithesis of collectivism.

   It is the sum total of these decisions and interactions from which
   society emerges.

   Feudal or industrial capitalist society perhaps.

   My longer term hope is that sharing the planet is just a temporary
   constraint that we'll eventually overcome. There is a lot of room in
   the galaxy and even the solar system. "If you don't like it, leave"

   More like "We fucked it up. Let's go somewhere else and fuck it up now"
   (visualizes moon-based fast-food chain trash fired from a rocket
   hitting alien on head starting an intergalactic war humans are
   unprepared for leading to their annihilation)
   You like "Role-Playing" games Sean? I've watched people create
   alternative personas just as fucked up as their pre-existing one. That
   IS the lesson from role-playing. If you can't get your 'first life'
   right, good luck with any other you might conceive.
   I've had thoughts about letting all the people who think escape from
   the planet is an option do it, and kill each other off elsewhere so the
   rest of us who remain can live in peace repairing the damage ...
   collectively. Almost every enthusiast of the relocation-to-space idea
   I've ever met is a closeted feudalist. Good luck.. Bon voyage!

   is a lot more realistic of an option when the choices and resources
   available are practically infinite.

   No known resource is infinite.

   This is not to say I'm sympathetic to the Venus Project and its' ilk; I
   don't think they're wrong about a future of abundance, I just think
   their language and thinking is rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding
   of the meaning of economic scarcity.

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