On 6/17/2015 1:57 PM, Softy wrote:


     Surely, you understand why they did this? There is a perfectly good
     rationale for running these kind of operations. It's just that
     you're
     miffed about the fact that you're not able to do anything about it.
     So if you're part of some impotent government that does not know how
     to,
     or wants to project power, instantly you're at the mercy of
     institutions
     of governments that can. No amount of tree-hugging or moral high
     ground
     is going to save you from extinction.
     And it's not all that bad. It's mostly power-play and politics
     really.
     >
     >
     [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_t
     rafficking
     >
     > "Once you set up a covert operation to supply arms and money, it's
     > very difficult to separate it from the kind of people who are
     involved

   ​ Do you claim to understand why the Reagan administration "did this"
   operation which eventually came to be known as Iran-Contra?
   If so, then you can explain how "blocking the fall of [soviet]
   dominoes" directly correlates to the distribution of drugs in specific
   Black-American communities.​

   I'm not an expert on everything. but if you want to sell drugs, you
   don't do it in your own neighborhood. That is probably not the answer
   you'd expected but that's the level of pragmatism I'd expect.

   ​You can in hindsight claim to agree with the end goal of "blocking
   Communism" however, in hindsight, you would be lambasted as failing to
   see through the Administration's propaganda.

   I'll bite. True. I just feel to see how that's the underlying cause.
   After the second WW the US was left with a huge defense industry. Du-uh
   they want to keep making money so the underlying cause most likely is
   money and defense contracts. The rest is just icing on the cupcake.
   So, all-in-all you're kind of extrapolating here. And from this point
   on I know that you and I no longer speak the same language. Even though
   we use the same words, they convey different ideas.
   Communism in the the true sense of it's implementation means
   expropriation... by force. And the way that it happened in Russia, with
   all it's true communists is that everything effectively belonged to the
   state. You, in hindsight, can not deny this because it's a stupid fact.
   Like gravity. That is probably not what you read in Das Kapital.
   Regardless of how you feel about this form of government, this scared
   the shit out of the folks back here because it's Capitalism's
   antithesis. *disclaimer: I'm pointing stuff out.
   Now you might read propaganda from that day  and age, and come to an
   entirely different conclusion about the severity of this problem.
   Probably because your definition of communism is very much like that of
   Marx's Das Kapital. Which in the light of what the USSR effectively did
   was not that great.

   Still claiming to support the means to that end, squarely puts you in
   the realm of the Abusers of Power.
   Abuse because the voting population never had any chance to understand
   what was being done in their name.

   Okay, this is where you fall flat on your face. Americans, however you
   feel about them, do not identify themselves with their government.*1
   So, you don't get to be even close to understand how to make a
   difference even if you wanted to. Because if they actually took their
   government serious, things would have been different.
   -----
   1: You'll find that just about every American represents themselves and
   the country. This explains all those fricken flags. That is what makes
   us so loud and obnoxious. Because it's a continuous play of
   grandstanding, conceding in private... rinse, repeat. So the only thing
   you'd need to do is provide a viable alternative and wham bam not only
   will it be embraced, it will become American. That in a nutshell is why
   I like this country. Less superficial bullshit through the process of
   self-defeating properties of superficial bullshit.
   Like the Borg in Star Trek. But the Borg in this story are actually all
   hot sociable supermodels in their model cube-Home. That wave flags, eat
   nice food, have awesome entertainment, and shoot you if you are part of
   some weirdo hive-mind. They are much nicer then Borg really.

   This is the cycle of Power Abuse which has many in the world turned
   against the US (and increasingly its people not just government).  As
   long as the (secret) three-letter agencies conduct (secret) operations
   using (secret) means and continue to be governed with (secret) mandates
   driven by an administration's (secret) beliefs without Transparent and
   Democratic oversight this trend will continue until its logical
   conclusion.  Sadly.

   Turning against is such a ridiculous way to explain what is going on.
   It's called fallen from grace. People are trying to walk away from U.S.
   Hegemony. And that is fine with me. Foreign governments are relying too
   much on American military power as I see it. That is why they don't run
   very fast. If they are running at all.
   The only problem with this "logical" conclusion is that, to me, it can
   go ever which way. If tomorrow people are fed up, they'll change it to
   whatever. That is also why people in power decided they need secret
   courts with secret interpretations of secret laws.
   The U.S. population is not the U.S. government. And the way you sell it
   to them they don't want to be either.

References

   1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking