Cryptocurrency: Says FUCK YOU To 1984 Euro Crypto ID Law
grarpamp
grarpamp at gmail.com
Tue May 16 21:22:02 PDT 2023
1984: EU passes law requiring ID for all crypto transactions.
[–]IramDei_ 183 points184 points185 points 11 hours ago (8 children)
“prevent the misuse of crypto industry for the purposes of money
laundering and financing of terrorism”
Misuse? isnot thats the only use of crypto?
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[–]SnarkConfidant 53 points54 points55 points 11 hours ago (6 children)
"It's all misuse?" :O
"Always has been" :|
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[–]broodkiller 17 points18 points19 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
🌎🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
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[+]purekillforce1 comment score below threshold-44 points-43 points-42
points 9 hours ago (4 children)
Good job other currencies can't be used to launder or finance
terrorism! The criminal empire will crumble without their precious
cyber money muahaha
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[–]powercow 27 points28 points29 points 8 hours ago (2 children)
OH sure sure sure. Thats why we have regulations for suspicious
activity reports and know your customer laws for stock exchanges.
ALso this might blow your fucking mind. You can kill people with a
knife. But its a lot easier with an AR-15. Your comment is like saying
"OMG you want to regulate AR-15s, when people can kill each other with
a knife" YEAH, because one is more easy to do than the other. ITs not
complicated. SO You need more of a debate than "OMG YOU CAN LAUNDER IN
FIAT TOO!!!"
I can launder in toasters if i want, its just not very convenient or
easy. Pointing this fact out is fairly meaningless for the
conversation.
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[+]purekillforce1 comment score below threshold-21 points-20 points-19
points 7 hours ago (1 child)
Seems pretty easy with cash laws for the stock exchange? They work well...
I'm not saying it can't be regulated and shouldn't be, but by design
you can avoid it. You can keep your own node and wallet and not have
to give identification to own and access your own wallet. Maybe for
criminal activity, maybe for privacy, maybe for security.
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[–]PresidentoftheSun 13 points14 points15 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Look, you can disconnect yourself from the rest of society however you
want, but most laws exist to control potential abuses carried out on
people when they try to interact with other people.
Existing financial regulations surrounding fraud are being actively
danced around using crypto. This is why more regulation targeting
crypto fraud specifically are coming. This isn't complicated to
understand.
Also, crypto is being treated different to how money is treated
because nobody uses it as money. If you think that's a stupid thing to
say, then you don't understand the function of money. Crypto is not
money.
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[–]nachof 5 points6 points7 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
You known, you say that like it's obvious that banning crypto would
not do anything to reduce those issues, but in reality, we know that
this is going to help. We know this because since crypto started being
everywhere, ransomware exploded everywhere. So yes, crypto does help
criminals.
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[–]rich-evans 12 points13 points14 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
“We are trying to prevent the misuse of bombs for the purpose of
blowing shit up”
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[–]LaughingAddict 45 points46 points47 points 10 hours ago (6 children)
Just in: all crypto pulls out of EU.
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[–]Y_Sam 35 points36 points37 points 9 hours ago (3 children)
Oooh nooo what will become of us 🙁🙁🙁 How will I pay for my groceries ?
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[–]hiuslenkkimakkara 16 points17 points18 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
This filthy fiat Euro that can instantly settle my sauerkraut purchases, nooo
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[–]foxsheepgato 4 points5 points6 points 6 hours ago (1 child)
it's over for us eurobros 😞 tyranny won ✊😥
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 3 points4 points5 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
"This is totalitarian, Europe will never be a developed country"
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[–]Noisebug 6 points7 points8 points 7 hours ago (1 child)
More like the EU pulls out of crypto. 😏
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
😏👌
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[–]SemiCurrentGuy 53 points54 points55 points 10 hours ago (12 children)
Seeing the loudest idiots say either "good luck with enforcement" or
"how would this work with defi" shows truly how ignorant the typical
cryptobro is right now.
For point 1, they are basically saying the quiet part out loud and
willing to risk their entire lifesavings as well as that which belongs
to any potential greater fools they can attract, even if it means they
are breaking the law - as long as they do not actually get caught.
As for the second point, while true it would be quite hard to enforce
specific ID or KYC-related rules when it comes to that aspect of
crypto, it doesn't matter at all because those same rules would still
block all the entrances and all exists unless you actually comply.
These morons will be trading their magic internet money with each
other and starving to death on the way to homelessness if they
continue to avoid reality. The doors are closing and my popcorn stash
is not ready yet. When harvest?
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[–]PresidentoftheSun 19 points20 points21 points 7 hours ago (9 children)
Government: Passes law that makes it illegal to process blockchain traffic.
ISP Providers: "What you mean free up some bandwidth by shutting down
anything with protocols matching blockchain functionality? Hell yeah
brother."
The only people left using crypto will be turbo nerds whose networks
don't interact with the internet at large, and everyone in it as a get
rich quick machine gets left holding keys to wallets they can't access
anymore because their ISP completely blocks them out.
Now I think this would be a terrible overreach by the government of
course, but it'd be funny in a cosmic sort of way.
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[–]Ok-Row-6131 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (6 children)
This might be hard to enforce because the ports could be changed
faster than ISPs can humanly react.
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[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 7 points8 points9 points 4 hours ago (5 children)
Port jumping only really works for a small number of people. They need
tens of thousands of machines all coordinating. They can't do that if
the machines don't know what phone number to call.
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[–]phire 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (4 children)
There are ways around it.
For example, BitTorrent clients typically select random ports
automatically, and the currently active port numbers are communicated
via a 3rd party (the tracker, or the DHT network). They already needed
to share the active IPs via a third party so clients can connect to
each other, easy enough to bundle a port too.
Bittorrent also implements protocol encryption, because some ISPs were
using deep packet inspection to identify connections using the
bittorrent protocol. Encrypting the BitTorrent protocol neatly blocks
this method, as long as both clients support encryption.
Some ISPs tried pretty hard to block BitTorrent a decade ago, and they
never found a successful method. It would be the same if they tired to
block bitcoin.
Bitcoin already has methods for communicating ip:port pairs to other
peers, as the port is configurable by the user. Bitcoin would just
need to add a feature to automatically randomise the ports.
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[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (3 children)
Ah, you're making me work for it this time.
The 3rd party is the real vulnerability. Everyone would need to know
about it, meaning it can't be a secret, which means the government can
easily find and block or shut down it.
The advantage of BitTorrent is that it is a truly decentralized
system. If you fragment the BitTorrent network into a dozen different
pieces, each of those pieces will continue to work. A particular
fragment might not have the file you need, but it's going to have a
lot of files in those files are going to be accessible.
Bitcoin is distributed, but it's not decentralized. It needs to be one
cohesive network at pretty much at all times. If the network is broken
into two, what's known as a network partition, it has no means of
recovery other than dropping all of the completed transactions on one
side or the other of the partition once it heals.
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[–]phire 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (2 children)
Yes, the third party is a bit of a vulnerability.
Though the cat and mouse goes a bit further. If ISPs or goverments
start trying to block 3rd parties, then they will switch to using
shared third parties. For example, putting the lists of peers on S3,
reddit or facebook ways that the connections can't be blocked without
massively inconveniencing legitimate services.
And nodes only need to find one valid IP/port to connect to the
network and then the fetch more node addresses from there. To
effectively block the P2P layer, a government would eventually be
forced to just maintain blocklists of every single node.
I don't think a government would ever go down that route, because
there are much easier methods. The on-ramps/off-ramps (exchanges) are
much more vulnerable to targeted legal attacks and that produces more
or less the same result. If money can't flow in and out, bitcoin is
pragmatically worthless.
If they really wanted to shut the network down, they are better off
going after the miners and preventing more blocks from being created.
I've talked about this attack vector before.
It needs to be one cohesive network at pretty much at all times.
If the network is broken into two, what's known as a network
partition,
Sure, there could be multiple partitions. But multiple partitions with
different mining pools is unlikely to happen more than once or twice.
Goes against their ideals of decentralisation, but in the face of such
an attack, the mining pools would quickly learn to keep private
encrypted connections between eachother. It would be impossible for
governments to disrupt these links and partition mining pools, unless
they directly attack the miners.
Any partition that doesn't have communication with any mining pool
will never see any new blocks, or have their transactions included.
It has no means of recovery other than dropping all of the
completed transactions on one side or the other of the partition once
it heals.
This is less of a problem that you suggest.
The dropped transaction go back into the mempool and simply get
included in future blocks. The block size limitations would make this
scenario suck, but it doesn't fundamentally break anything. Someone
might manage to pull off a double spend in the chaos, but that
wouldn't be easy.
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[–]grauenwolfAgent of Poe 1 point2 points3 points 27 minutes ago (1 child)
I don't think a government would ever go down that route, because
there are much easier methods. The on-ramps/off-ramps (exchanges) are
much more vulnerable to targeted legal attacks
I agree with that wholeheartedly.
We'll probably never learn which of us is right on the other points
because it would be stupid for the government to not just use the easy
route.
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[–]phire 0 points1 point2 points 3 minutes ago (0 children)
Yeah.
Most governments simply don't have the infrastructure to censor the
internet at a per-connection level, but they already have large
amounts of infrastructure for policing companies that enable money
laundering and other illegal movement of money.
And the one government that already had the level of internet
censorship infrastructure to even start thinking about doing this
(China), already cracked down on cryptocurrency and they went with
route of suppressing on-ramps/off-ramps and outlawing mining
operations.
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[–]drdaeman 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (1 child)
“Hell yeah?” You, good sir, must have no idea what you’re talking about.
ISPs hate being forced to set up any non-trivial traffic filtering.
That’s extra work that doesn’t bring any money - neither clients nor
governments pay for this. If anything, it consumes money - either in
engineering hours or in licensing costs. And liabilities for not
blocking something (especially sometime vaguely defined) is definitely
not something that makes ISPs happier. Large telecoms (especially
monopolies) can sorta shrug it off (still not being exactly happy
unless there’s some scheme how to spend money in a way it goes in
desirable pockets), smaller companies hate such ideas.
Bandwidth saving is approached differently, most commonly by
optimizing peering or deploying local caches.
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[–]PresidentoftheSun 0 points1 point2 points 28 minutes ago (0 children)
no idea what you're talking about
I mean yeah probably.
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[–]PatchworkFlames 8 points9 points10 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Who needs exit ramps when they never plan to sell?
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago* (0 children)
They say : " this will send Europe back into the stone age"."Europe
really wants to be set back against the developed world and Chinaaa!!"
"Eu is the worst country on the planet" 🤣🤣
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[–]Malfrum 75 points76 points77 points 11 hours ago (2 children)
I mean I think we've said for years that any world government could,
at any moment, raid the crypto party and shut the whole shitshow down
in a heartbeat. They just don't care to... yet
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[–]powercow 20 points21 points22 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
well i have always been amused when so many in the crypto subs think
the SEC and the GOV are scared of crypto. If they were scared the game
would be over already. The fact they want to label alt coins.. NOT
BITCOIN but other alt coins as securities doenst mean they are scared
of anything.
and fuck like anything else, if it took off big business would be up
to the neck in crypto. Banks already do have some investments into
crypto. SO the idea they are scared is rather laughable.
Yeah gov cant kill crypto, its sorta like tor in that respect, but
they can hobble the fuck out of it, so its only useful for .. well the
shit its used for right now. Illegal activity.
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[–]easyj86 10 points11 points12 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Ya, the goal of government isn't to stop crime entirely, it's to be in
control. Right now, crypto offers them a trail to target those if and
so they wish. If they came down on it entirely, they'd lose that
power.
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[–]Kooky_General_3292 11 points12 points13 points 8 hours ago (4 children)
how am I supposed to buy coke now
edit: i'm not kidding how am I supposed to buy my benzos now?
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[–]amyo_b 11 points12 points13 points 7 hours ago (1 child)
The traditional way, I guess. Make a connection with a shady dealer
and exchange cash for the goods hoping that the sketchy dealer is too
motivated by future profits to bump off his customers by selling
tainted junk or just plain robbing them.
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[–]doubleyewdee 5 points6 points7 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Literally you can just befriend (genuinely befriend, not be a
schmoozing jerk) people in service industry, at least in the US coke
flows through restaurant kitchens like water.
I've had so many buddies who are servers/kitchen staff just say 'hey
do you want a bump?' casually, they'll hook you up.
(should note: never actually DONE the bumps, but just because cocaine
isn't my personal preference in drugs, no judgment either way.)
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Like all bros do, ask mom for it
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[–]LaughingAddict 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
The only good thing about crypto was drugs delivered to your door.
With pharmacies and fucking doctors scared shitless of getting
financially ruined, it’s become increasingly harder in the states to
get help for pain management. It’s so much easier to just order what
you need off the dark web.
I hope society and doctors quit flipping the fuck out and get back to
actually helping people.
Now every doctor in my area is like Mother Theresa with the mindset of
“suffering is what brings you closer to god, so you should suffer.”
I wish I was joking.
The pendulum has swung too fucking far toward Mother Theresa.
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[–]marcio0 5 points6 points7 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
would be the future of finance, if not for those pesky regulators!
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[–]mangotree65 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Crypto brought the level of intelligence required for successful money
laundering down to that of the average cryptobro. Laundering has been
done by intelligent people for a long time. It remains to be seen if
Bitcoin Bobby and Ethereum Ellie can pull it off without their crypto
crutch but the tilted heads and dripping drool I see when I gaze their
way doesn’t inspire confidence.
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[–]Mongorize 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Cue the meltdown in r/cc
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[–]ililillillllili 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago* (1 child)
is this entire sub just feds circlejerking each other?
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Yes we are
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[–]EricBeTrappin 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
just to be the devils advocate here, this applies to crypto asset
service providers so it’s still equally as decentralized as it always
has been, i mean nothing decentralized about going to a centralized
site lol
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[–]deadpanjunkie 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Cash is the only true decentralised currency, no one knows where it is
at any one time.
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[–]AmericanScream 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (1 child)
Congratulations crypto bros!
You wanted to convince people crypto = money?
This is the result!
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[–]Ok-Row-6131 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
Turns out they just wanted money without the laws associated with it
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[–]homezlice 2 points3 points4 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Laws. Turns out they exist.
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[–]Glad_Cauliflower8032 -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 hours ago (1 child)
people can send to eachother via there private wallets, this is just
for exchanges
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[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 9 points10 points11 points 6 hours ago (0 children)
Gotta cash out though.
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[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron comment score below threshold-10
points-9 points-8 points 4 hours ago (7 children)
So you celebrate government control over the people? Weirdos…
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[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 5 points6 points7 points 3 hours ago* (4 children)
You’re the same people that cry about your funds being stolen and that
there are too many scams. Crytpobros cry about how it needs to be
regulated to prevent such a thing. Then when regulations happen you
cry about it being too much. You people are delusional!
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[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron -1 points0 points1 point 47 minutes
ago (3 children)
“You people are delusional” or maybe you make a wrong generalisation
about two or more kinds of people who match the scenarios above?
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[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 1 point2 points3 points 31 minutes ago (2 children)
Bro you are all the same. Crying about don’t put your money on CEX’s
you can’t trust them, Meme coins are pump and dumps. , and etc. What
you crypto bros want is legality and legitimacy without the legality
and legitimacy part.
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[+]TIRBU6ONAwarning, I am a moron -1 points0 points1 point 23 minutes
ago (1 child)
Sure, millions of people are exactly the same, very sane theory.
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[–]Pablanomexicano[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 minutes ago (0 children)
Sooo you want to continue to get scammed and get ripped off from your
money!? Lol you people are dumb
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[–]Ok-Row-6131 6 points7 points8 points 4 hours ago (0 children)
Yes, yes we do.
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Yeeeeeess we fucking do 👮
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[–]montuckyv2 -21 points-20 points-19 points 8 hours ago (4 children)
Tells you how scared they are of losing control.
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[–]IAMA_Plumber-AMA 20 points21 points22 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Lol, "scared".
More like they've been letting cryptobros play store, and now that
people are getting scammed, they're bringing the hammer down.
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[–]VintageLunchMeat 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children)
Control? Cryptocoins don't benefit society. Moreover, they cause
demonstrable harm, be it co2 emissions, money laundering, asset
hiding, exchange administrators running thefts, or, perhaps most
importantly, defrauding newbies by telling them cryptocoins are a
reliable technology and are a safe investment.
Why tolerate their existence?
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[–][deleted] 5 hours ago (1 child)
[removed]
[–]spookmann👻[M] 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago (0 children)
Un-called for.
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[+]auron66 comment score below threshold-30 points-29 points-28 points
8 hours ago (3 children)
Government and banks really can’t digest crypto isn’t? Money laundry
my ass, criminal and rich people will always find their way to laundry
their dirty money, is just an excuse to not let the banks be replaced
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[–]IAMA_Plumber-AMA 18 points19 points20 points 7 hours ago (0 children)
Lol, get real. Governments could regulate crypto out of existence
tomorrow if they wished.
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[–]thehoesmakethemanincendiary and presumptuous (but not always wrong)
4 points5 points6 points 5 hours ago (0 children)
banks be replaced? has crypto ever issued even a single mortgage, ever?
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[–]Ok-Possible-8440 1 point2 points3 points 2 hours ago (0 children)
Are you sad cause your bank account is empty🥲
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[+]areq13warning, I am a moron comment score below threshold-62
points-61 points-60 points 11 hours ago (8 children)
And I just passed gas, which has the same effect on the blockchain.
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[–]SpandexPanFried 53 points54 points55 points 11 hours ago (3 children)
Nobody gives a shit about the coins themselves, or what they do on the
blockchain. They care when people try to convert them to fiat.
Go ahead, try and sell even one bitcoin for cash without using an
exchange to do it.
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[–]fattybread83 14 points15 points16 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
They're gonna have to move to South America to be able to live...
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[–]LaughingAddict 15 points16 points17 points 10 hours ago (1 child)
Only possible through IRL transactions. As in you hand me briefcase of
money and I give you frou frou token. Seems like a good deal….
This will push crypto into shadier corners. I don’t know how much rope
they have left honestly before they hang themselves with it.
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[–]dubov 8 points9 points10 points 9 hours ago (0 children)
Future of finance
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[–]BigFreakingPope 13 points14 points15 points 10 hours ago (0 children)
Good luck paying your taxes, rent, mortgage or anything else
meaningful in crypto.
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[–]SufficientAnalyst383 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
Flair checks out.
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[–]PatchworkFlames 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago (0 children)
That's because the blockchain is divorced from reality.
You understand it doesn't matter how much bitcoin you have, you need
to convert it to cash to buy that lambo, right?
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[–]sometimesworkhard 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children)
This is good for Bitcoin.
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