Cryptocurrency: $32T Debt, Banksters Manipulate Crypto Price Down To Hide Escape Route
grarpamp
grarpamp at gmail.com
Sun Jun 4 21:10:32 PDT 2023
Crypto Price Dips Stunning Correlation to US Banksters Hours
$5 TRILLION to $32 TRILLION in less than 20 years (i.redd.it)
[–]KAX1107[S] 222 points223 points224 points 4 days ago
WTF happened in 1971?
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[–]Flat4Power4Life 29 points30 points31 points 4 days ago
It’s also around that time when we switched to a credit based system.
1966 was the beginning of credit cards and a system of endless
borrowing and interest.
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[–]hotasanicecube 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
It was also the oil crisis, 99% of the population uses gasolines and
oil. It was also Vietnam. Look at GDP and other numbers and you will
see how the government was running tight on money. As was everyone’s
disposable income.
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[–]duper12677 138 points139 points140 points 4 days ago
Yeah I was gonna say you can see plain as day where the gold standard
ended and they just started to rev up the ol green back printer. That
was the decision that made the system bound to fail
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[–]roofgram 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
The dollar was pegged to $35 for an ounce of gold. Today gold is worth
around $2,000 which means the dollar has lost around 50x its value
since it was unpegged and continues to fall.
Without the peg the government can spend without limit. Inflation is
the ‘tax’ you pay for this overspending. Nothing is free. 13 trillion
in Corona spending is being paid for right now with higher prices
everywhere, and it will never go away.
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[–]SamwiseGamgee87 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago
But you can see how it's start getting worse after the crisis of the
current century, in 2000/1 - 2007/8 - 2020/1 they system can't handle
another crisis
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[–]duper12677 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Those events should have brought the system down, but the money
printer is their only support. Something will eventually give
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[–]BuyRackTurk 62 points63 points64 points 4 days ago
WTF happened in 1971?
Red herring; gold was illegal to own in 1971. So the gold standard was a joke.
The date of infamy is 1913.
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[–]theekman 39 points40 points41 points 4 days ago
Illigal for citizens to own but other countries were able to
repatriate until 71. After that there was nothing holding back money
printing
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[–]Junior_Client3022 13 points14 points15 points 4 days ago
No one entity or group should have the power to manipulate currency
and economy. 1971 doesn't mean jack. The US owned 90% of the gold in
the world. Even if you could redeem it. Gold still sucked then just
like it does now. The money manipulators and currency creators are the
true problem.
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[–]anonymouscitizen2 23 points24 points25 points 4 days ago
Point is the US governments ability to create more paper dollars was
dependent on some proportion of physical gold bullion in their
custody. It was not the ideal scenario for the average citizen but it
very obviously was better than the monetary system we have now.
Money needs to be separated from the state if we ever want it to work
for us again. Probably the most important issue to a citizens
prosperity and more people need to be educated on it
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[–]Junior_Client3022 -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago*
The point is that it isn't possible to manipulate the currency or
economy. Policy isn't going to change anything meaningfully. Policy
isn't going to change the fact that voters are going to vote
themselves money, or that lobbyists are going to Lobby politicians.
Only the free market knows where money goes and how it should be
spent. There is no magic formula or an all seeing economist that could
turn the ship around. Control of the money is the single problem.
Remove that and fix the world. Going to a gold standard for some
arbitrary amount of time ran by some temporary state actor who you
have to trust to not sell off or just not change the law on a whim
isn't going to solve anything.
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[–]theekman 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
Just need decentralized money… that would fix things
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[–]anonymouscitizen2 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
“The point is that it isn't possible to manipulate the currency or economy”
What? Yes it is and it happens non stop. That is why money and state
need to be separated.
“Policy isn't going to change anything meaningfully. Policy isn't
going to change the fact that voters are going to vote themselves
money, or that lobbyists are going to Lobby politicians.”
I agree, which is why I said money and state need to be seperated.
“There is no magic formula or an all seeing economist that could turn
the ship around. Control of the money is the single problem.”
Same answer, you are repeating yourself.
“Going to a gold standard for some arbitrary amount of time ran by
some temporary state actor who you have to trust to not sell off or
just not change the law on a whim isn't going to solve anything.”
No, it won’t which is why I said money needs to be seperate from the
state. Simply pointing out the gold standard acted as a roadblock to
runaway money creation we have now, that is an objective fact. Not the
ideal solution of course. Money needs to be entirely removed from the
state for true prosperity.
We are in agreement.
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[–]theekman 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago*
Im not saying it was right but there was still supposed to be one oz
of gold per $35 USD. Once they completely went away from that they
could openly cheat.
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[–]CoolioMcCool 6 points7 points8 points 4 days ago
1971 still holds significance even if the events in 1913 were more
fundamental to the fuckery that we see today.
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[–]GoblinsStoleMyHouse 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Woah… what the f*
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[+]cabbage-collector -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 days ago
We decided to kick ass?
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
1977 the USA abandoned the gold standard.
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[–]TehSillyKitteh 51 points52 points53 points 4 days ago
Trend reversal incoming. Buy calls.
Fuck. Wrong subreddit
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[–]Tvaticus 10 points11 points12 points 4 days ago
Lol short Fiat currency!
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[–]garmzon 16 points17 points18 points 4 days ago
This is gonna end well
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
"Bitcoin holder not affected."
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[–]in4life 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
The chart seems to be steep enough to form one half of a well, if
that’s what you mean.
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[–]PurpleFlamingoFarmer 71 points72 points73 points 4 days ago
And they'll keep it going forever, in every country. Buy BTC
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[–]KAX1107[S] 8 points9 points10 points 4 days ago
Make the only vote you have count
Opt out
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[–]BitcoinFan7 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Relevant
https://youtu.be/cOubCHLXT6A
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[–]btcluvr 16 points17 points18 points 4 days ago
it is accelerating in geometric progression and will result in
hyperinflation at some point. people will loose trust in system, this
is easy to understand by lack of motivation to work.
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[–]togetherwem0m0 14 points15 points16 points 4 days ago
What's the point of working when 90 percent of your work value is sent
up the corporate chain to profit the already wealthy, either directly
or by way of inflation
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[–]Ragefan66 4 points5 points6 points 4 days ago*
Whats the point of working? I dunno, maybe being able to pay bills and
pay rent? Whats the alternative? Being homeless or living with mom+dad
and sitting at home all day?
Want the profits for yourself? Why don't you take out a loan and start
your own business and hire employees? If all jobs are gouging as much
as you say they are you'd be stupid not to pursue opening literally
any business.
Also do you seriously think that companies make a 900% return on
investment on every single employee per their hours paid? Did you not
include overhead of running the business, all the other positions that
sales/revenue positions need to pay for, rent and all other expenses?
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[–]togetherwem0m0 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
its my position that the fiat monetary system has instituted, for the
past 50 years and accelerating more recently, a deviation of the value
of work to the compensation of work. people know this is true, if not
in their minds then in their hearts. they can feel the real world
effects of their labor not being able to pay for what it used to pay
for, whether it be housing, other peoples services, or other physical
goods. this is all in spite of the tremendous productivity gains from
the vast amounts of automation and technological advancement that has
occurred.
my statement is meant to give voice to the way people are feeling,
especially those entering the labor market on the low end. they know
something's fucked but many are blind to it, so there's a malaise or a
demotivational thing happening. people are finding ways to live
without work or minimum work, one way or another, because its not
worth it to work for them.
bitcoin, the ideal digital sound money, has the opportunity to bring
balance to the system by undermining the cantillon effect and undoing
the corruptive influence of systemic control.
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[–]Ragefan66 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
"bitcoin, the ideal digital sound money, has the opportunity to bring
balance to the system by undermining the cantillon effect and undoing
the corruptive influence of systemic control."
I call bullshit. Minimum wage and corporate tax rates/structure is
still controlled by our government. BTC changes absolutely none of
this other than having the risk of dropping/mooning on the whims of
billionaires gambling on crypto.
Government still controls everything in essence. They can make BTC
worthless by taxing every BTC transaction by an insane amount, BTC
will never replace the USD and problems like inflation and wage
disparity just suddenly don't go away because we got rid of USD and
replaced it with a crypto that moves on the whims of the worlds
richest people.
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 27 points28 points29 points 4 days ago
What's the point of working ...?
For me, living my childhood dreams -- that's been the point of
working. I started in poverty with nothing and WORKED my way up.
Now I drive a decent car, one that doesn't break down all the time...
one that I never have to fix - I can pay the mechanic.
I no longer live in roach-infested apartments with thin walls, noisy
plumbing and obnoxious neighbors. I live in a dream home in a very
nice part of town with my loving partner.
I can go to just about any store or restaurant and buy whatever I
want, as much as I want. I can drink whatever brand of wine, beer, or
booze I want - no need to shop by price.
I can still go car camping if I choose, but I often choose to vacation
in places like Paris, staying in fine hotels and eating at fine
restaurants. I worked and earned the ability to make that choice.
I don't owe anybody any money.
Am I the richest person I know? Not by a long shot when measured in
fiat currency. Still, I get to live out my dream life.
Am I making the owners of the companies I work for rich? Hell yeah -
that's my job, that's why they hire me. I'm okay with that. They pay
me well because I have spent the time and effort to learn new skills
to allow me to earn more and more.
If you're stuck in a dead end, minimum wage job, either do what I did
or shut the fuck up and learn to enjoy the life and career you choose.
HERE'S THE BEST PART:
Along the way, I learned a lot of things:
* You won't be happy having what you want until you learn to want what
you already have. * You can be rich and still be miserable.
* You can be poor and still be happy.
* Be thankful in all situations (easier said than done). * Take care
of your health - or else. * Get enough sleep. * Relax. * Be patient. *
Never stop learning.
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[–]togetherwem0m0 10 points11 points12 points 4 days ago
I appreciate your post, and that is all true for me, but it's becoming
less and less true and harder to achieve than it was for us.
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[+]Umpire_State_Bldg -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 days ago
They guys at the car wash are working hard.
The owner of the car wash is working smart.
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[–]togetherwem0m0 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
You can't own a car wash by working at a car wash
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 days ago
So, don't work at a car wash if owning a car wash is your objective.
If you're currently working at a car wash and want to own one, then
YOU need to change, YOU need to come up with a plan and then take
actions to move yourself along your planned path. You also need to
evaluate your plan from time to time, and make changes when things
turn out to be different than you planned for them to be.
The world isn't going to say, "You want to own the car wash? Oh, boo
hoo. Let's change everything: Human nature, competition, risk-reward,
the entire global economy, the laws made by government, the laws of
nature... so YOU can just magically have a car wash."
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[–]togetherwem0m0 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
ah you're one of those bootstrap people
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[–]Jedimastah 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
The boomer has revealed himself
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[–]StomachMysterious308 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
I was gonna say BOOTSTRAP but you already beat me to it.
You can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps when your hands have
been chopped off
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[–]nerojt 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Wrong, you need to work there first to figure out how to run a car
wash business.
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[–]FUSeekMe69 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
And neither actually produces anything. Why do we need car washes in
the first place? Is it convenience, because we don’t have time because
we’re always at work?
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 days ago
When you run the world, you can outlaw car washes. Enjoy.
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[–]FUSeekMe69 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
I just see a completely different world on a bitcoin standard.
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[–]Fabs_- 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
A true pain to read, especially the self-help / insta-quotes.
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[–]FUSeekMe69 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
You have a great work ethic, and I admire it. But you could be
spending way less time working and doing other things (even if that
meant “working”) if the fiat system didn’t hamstring us into believing
we need to work harder on the hamster wheel to get ahead in life.
Technology can and will eventually come for every job. Ask yourself
what that looks like on an inflationary standard, then what it looks
like on a standard without manipulation.
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[+]Umpire_State_Bldg -7 points-6 points-5 points 4 days ago
if the fiat system didn’t hamstring us
Why do you think I donate my time to help strangers to understand and
appreciate Bitcoin?
Don't just work harder. Work smarter, too.
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[–]Fabs_- 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
Most of your comments that I get to read are copy-pastes without much
effort, or straight up whacky shit.
You truly are a weird one.
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[–]FUSeekMe69 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
do what I did and shut the fuck up
Maybe take your own advice if this is how you plan to help
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[–]We_are_all_monkeys 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Do you want a cookie?
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[–]Chonk-de-chonk 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
If you're stuck in a dead end, minimum wage job, either do what I
did or shut the fuck up and learn to enjoy the life and career you
choose.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/13w4z37/the_answer_to_get_a_better_job/
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -2 points-1 points0 points 4 days ago
Did posting that nonsense get her a living wage? No.
Welcome to reality.
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[–]Chonk-de-chonk 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
*Welcome to the reality of Capitalism.
Where the poor deserve to die and the rich say, "fuck you I got mine."
Seriously, some people can't find better work. And minimum wage jobs
still need to be filled. Saying that these people should just "get a
better job" ignores their personal circumstances and demonstrates a
lack of empathy.
I'm very happy for you. It sounds like you worked hard and achieved
everything you want in life. But as they say in the infomercials:
results may vary.
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 days ago
How much money did that post put into your checking account?
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[–]Chonk-de-chonk 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I'm very confused what you're trying to say? That posting on social
media is a waste of time, and time is money? Then what are you doing
here?
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
The FACT is, there is competition for resources, wealth, mates, jobs,
college entrance, living space, etc.
That's the way it is.
If you're not willing or able to compete to get ahead, you won't get
ahead - even if you bitch about the system.
The world is not keeping you down - you are keeping yourself down, and
your unrealistic attitude works against you. It's hard to get ahead,
YES, it is. The world and the system put downward pressure upon us -
yes, that's true. Still you won't get ahead unless you get your
attitude straight, turn off your TV, get off your ass, make a plan for
how you are going to get ahead and then put in the time and effort to
execute that plan.
That's right, getting ahead is going to cost you time and effort over
a long period of time.
Not everybody is willing to turn off the TV and start learning a new
skill to help them get ahead.
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continue this thread
[–]rottiesrule88 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I award you no point and may god have mercy on your soul!
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
You can't even spell God correctly.
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continue this thread
[–]Eskogito_ 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
What are you willing to trade for the riches Which the devil will give
you? In return for the favor You must be his servant and he will give
you new opportunities There was an exam... He who was ready, he has
long been calm. He who came here will begin his life from scratch.
Good evil in our hearts..." Don't ask me about the times And the
actors in this story ♪ Literally picking myself up in bits and pieces
♪ Like a book in pages, they escaped grief "As you go up the spiral of
life Remember what awaited you in the beginning How long ago did we
fall asleep with a smile on our lips? It's not enough a lifetime to
learn to right your wrongs." It's enough to try so that one day
everyone Can find within himself the flow of an unrelenting thirst.
"There are so many wonders around, go for it! Be the discoverer, the
inventor." Soul volcanoes formidable, Measure with steps the stars,
Believe in wonder. Lead through the needle's ear a caravan of camels
Be the captain of your ship Go on a journey through piles of books One
hard road ahead, climb to the heights Down to the depths
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[–]2xfun -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
And yet the majority of the normies are blind
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[–]dghmuiytd 10 points11 points12 points 4 days ago
And they feel the effects of money printing and inflationary policy
like we all do, but then ask for even more of what caused it....The
only way to ever truly get wealth redistribution is through sound
money, which gives workers back the power. Right now, we're just on
the proverbial treadmill, working jobs to stay afloat. There is not a
lot of power in that model because you can never store all that
energy.
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[–]nerojt 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
To build skills to start your own thing.
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[–]Ragefan66 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 days ago
People who think hyperinflation is coming to the US are legit bonkers
and have no idea what they're talking about lol.
If the US enters hyperinflation than a speculative asset like BTC
isn't going up as the entire world will be extremely strapped for cash
and unwilling to gamble into crypto.
Bitcoin performed worst than cash since this inflation shit started,
so why would anythink that hyperinflation would somehow bring BTC to
the fucking moon?
It's all speculation and its all one giant gamble.
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[–]BrotherAmazing 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
I think they’re bonkers too, but because the Fed will obviously raise
rates to 6% or 7% or even more if required and would ultimately just
put us in a Recession on purpose rather than face hyperinflation.
So I reject the thesis the U.S. will face hyperinflation any time soon.
There is definitely a problem brewing out on the horizon though, just
not hyperinflation.
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[–]Rey_Mezcalero 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
The world will be in a big hurt if the US goes to hyperinflation. No
other major country want she USD or the US to fall. It’s the worlds
market and cash register and the pain will reach everywhere.
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
The rest of the world will be forced to buy the debt in order to
protect their economies from USD collapse.
At least until a viable alternative system exists.
Btc is still not ready. Lightning needs better deployment and
integration. Chargebacks and subscription services need to be
possible. Credit agencies and lending services and escrow services
need to be more widely adopted. Btc is great but the legacy financial
system is way more capable and nuanced for handling complicated
financial scenarios. Eventually BTC will get there. But it’s not there
yet.
If China pushes out a robust and feature rich CBDC that includes
privacy (something they claim to be doing) That could be a threat to
global financial usd dominance. Eventually BTC wins. But in the phase
in between it could get ugly.
The best thing would be if the USA gov started buying and holding BTC.
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[–]btcluvr 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
in economics of hyperinflation people will need alternative money
system. bitcoin is an absolutely evident place to run to. you'll
change your "speculative asset" talk as soon as your real earnings
drop 2x from now. this moment is closer than you think. inflation
isn't going anywhere.
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[–]Ragefan66 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 days ago
Not when all BTC transactions are heavily taxed and a fucking headache
and that the government can set whatever tax they want to render BTC
completely useless.
Not to mention what's needed for hyperinflation to occure and that
inflation has already been reduced to nearly 3% YOY at this rate and
that the FED is already considering rate cuts in the near future.
Not to mention BTC will still be heavily manipulated far down the line
and if we transfer to a BTC system the price/fiat ratio of BTC can
drop 50% overnight based on the trading activity of billionaires/govts
in another country.
BTC replacing USD will never happen, flat out, even if hyperinflation
would magically occur in the US
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[–]treehermit 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
…said Caesar confidently about the denarius towards the fall of the
Roman Empire!
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[–]Ragefan66 -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
If the US/US dollar falls on the level how Rome did then you'll have a
lot more to worry about than inflation or the hardships of life in a
scenario where the US completely collapses.
Not to mention any govt wherever you live can completely negate any
positives BTC can provide, either by taxing each transaction by an
ungodly amount or many other methods.
Thinking BTC will save you in that scenario is foolish
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[–]treehermit -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
If you can envision this, then I think perhaps governments around the
world can too.
Maybe that's why the BRICS nations are currently in the process of
launching their own commodity-backed currency? And Central banks in
Europe and Asia are in a race to sell off their US treasury holdings?
And smaller nations are quietly taking baby steps to move away from
dollar based trade?
Dedollarization was unthinkable a decade ago but is now being openly
talked about in international conversations.
I don't know if BTC will replace the dollar. But I know something
WILL. A basket of currencies perhaps.
I guess the threat that "we will bomb/ invade you and topple your
government if you dare to trade in anything else except USD" tends to
lose steam and becomes pretty much tiresome for everyone eventually..
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[–]Ragefan66 -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago*
The BRICS currency is literally being developed by Russia and was
specifically made because they started a war in Ukraine. Your argument
is in no good faith if you legitimately bring that up as even a slight
potential cause for the fall of USD.
Your other point of other countries selling off US treasuries is
something that happens every single year. Every single major country
on the planet has had an upward trajectory for US based treasuries in
the last 8 years. What data are you looking at that suggests
irregulaties in the pace of selling US treasuries? Also to no suprise
countries might sell off their investments during times of economic
crisis, its not like any other country is seeing a surge of treasury
debt buys.
A basket of currencies as trade is just beyond stupid and would never
work lol, there's a reason why a dollar ETF hasn't been made and even
considered among countries for the past 200 years, nor does it even
make a lick of sense on paper lol.
In reality there is no competition. A Russia developed currency that
you first mentioned is laughable and the next best bet is China which
the world would never adopt because of how they aren't transparent.
The Euro or Canadians dollar?? 🤣🤣
I get the hate for USD, but you're kidding yourself with these points
and I can't imagine you based your US treasury holding from actual
statistics you saw and its more likely you saw a few article titles or
two.
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[–]Rey_Mezcalero 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
You are correct. But you wasting your time trying to convince some of
the day dreamers else wise.
When I hear “BRICS” I have to laugh because anyone that has been in
international business knows how well the BRICS threat went a couple
decades ago…
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[–]btcluvr 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
heavily taxed by US gov or heavily taxed by bitcoin as network? US gov
is taxing your dollars under the pillow even more effectively, just by
emission and inflation. opt out, don't pay them.
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[–]Ragefan66 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Govt can tax your BTC transactions. Why don't you try hiding your
Bitcoin profits, not report any of it to the IRS and then let me know
how that ends up for ya in 5 years 🤣🤣
Also in a world where BTC replaces USD the govt would need to tax the
shit out of BTC to keep the country running. If everyone takes their
notes from you then you can say goodbye to every single tax funded
thing including paved roads lol.
"JuSt dOn't pAy YoUr TaXeS" Brilliant move mate.
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[–]btcluvr 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
the choice is completely yours, i made my own.
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Actually if USD goes to hyperinflation then BTC will be worth
$1,000,000 very fast!
Only problem is that a loaf of bread will cost $400.
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[–]Laiteuxxx 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago*
This.
The only fair currency – the only one that matters.
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[–]Rey_Mezcalero 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
People want a variety of services from the gov and gov workers want
juicy pensions and benefits
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[–]BossKitten99 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Just wait. It gets a whole lot worse
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[–]Bunker_Beans 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Can’t wait to see where we’re at in another twenty years.
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[–]poluting -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
It’s probably best to not stick around and find out. Working a remote
job while living in Europe is looking more desirable than ever.
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[–]sfink06 6 points7 points8 points 4 days ago
Why do you think Europe is immune?
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[–]poluting 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
I don’t. The only benefit would be a cheaper cost of living for the
same quality of life. I can work remotely and earn a high salary while
living in a place that costs 1/3 of what it costs in America
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[–]JakoDel 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
factor out all countries above ~italy/austria and I can agree
otherwise it's bs
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[–]eroweenflow 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Depends where in Europe and where in America. SF and NYC don't have
the same cost that somewhere lost in the middle of Wyoming. Same for
London and South italy. Daily expenses are typically cheaper in
America (expect their crap healthcare system)
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[–]rock-island321 10 points11 points12 points 4 days ago
That looks scary, shown inversely, like it's diving to hell!
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[–]fisherprice1234_1776 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Lol because it is.....
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[–]kwanijml 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Nah Mate, it's because this is actually Australia's debt graph.
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[–]liquefire81 18 points19 points20 points 4 days ago
Wonder what happened in the 1970s…. Dont answer, i know.
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[–]Flat4Power4Life 8 points9 points10 points 4 days ago
1966 saw the birth of credit cards, the years that followed saw a
switch to a credit based system economy. Endless borrowing, interest,
and debt for the whole economy.
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[–]roofgram 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Money printing, and subsequent lending was made possible from
unpegging the dollar from gold.
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[+]2xfun -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 days ago
1971*
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[–]PrimaryThrowawayName 15 points16 points17 points 4 days ago
Which was in the 1970s
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[–]Blom-w1-o 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
Can confirm. I was the 70s.
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[–]2xfun 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
I guess op was right.
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[–]dexter_048 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
🤓
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[–]Huge_Yak6380 9 points10 points11 points 4 days ago
one of the only good things about inflation is it lessens of the
impact of the national debt
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[–]Optimistic-Cat 8 points9 points10 points 4 days ago
And personal debt, the monthly payment on 30 year mortgage is like 1/2
the original real cost by the end
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[–]Huge_Yak6380 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
That is a really interesting angle of this that I hadn't thought about
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
That's one thing I LOVE about Bitcoin - I am no longer forced to
subsidize my neighbors' stupidity-based debts. There will NEVER be
more than 21 million Bitcoins created.
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Interesting POV. But only viable if the mortgage is fixed rate.
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[–]2xfun 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
I guess that's the goal now... Hyperinflation here we go
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
It is a form of theft.
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[–]in4life -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
True. However, the debt growth has to stay within reason of GDP growth
or even that is out the window.
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[–]toqelowkey 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Can we do a log chart ?
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[–]RTGold 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Nope, that'd be too helpful. This makes it looks worse and follows the
narrative.
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[–]kirovreported 13 points14 points15 points 4 days ago
I think it must be compared with GDP grow for honesty.
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[–]Lord-Dongalor 10 points11 points12 points 4 days ago
The point is that it’s all fake.
If GDP and debt both go up and the PPP of a currency goes down, then
it’s all just for show.
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[–]kirovreported 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Agree. But I am interested in the mathematical side. I think the
decline in dollar PPP should correlate with the difference between GDP
and debt growth.
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[–]2xfun -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
Here's the way I see it: when you're in debt your borrowers own your
ass. I'd rather be debt free.
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[–]Lord-Dongalor 6 points7 points8 points 4 days ago
For personal finance that works great. But for a fiat or debt backed
currency, being debt free is not a good thing. The debt is what gives
the currency value. The greater the debt, the greater the interest in
repayment.
Of course this is bad for the citizens, which is why Bitcoin was
developed in the first place.
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[–]Bad_Camel 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
GDP grew because of cheap money, stimulus and lots of debt.
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[–]BrotherAmazing 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
You left out productivity. That is actually key to sustainable GDP
increases in a nation whose populations aren’t growing.
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[–]kwanijml 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
GDP grew because of cheap money, stimulus and lots of debt.
Nominal GDP. For short spurts.
Inflation and debt don't produce wealth and dont create increases in
real (inflation adjusted) GDP in the long run.
So we can measure debt to real GDP and get something approaching a
useful picture of the growth in debt.
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[–]FUSeekMe69 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Jeff booth makes the point that for everything to work, everything
must always go up (debt, production, consumption, etc.), yet that
can’t happen on a finite world.
I always like to think why do we need 100s of flavors and brands of
cereal? Because they have to continue to grow.
In the weeds a little bit, but why do we need cereal at all? Just
convenience because we have to work so much.
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[–]Lynxes_are_Ninjas 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Compare it to average or median income.
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[–]will042082 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
Point to the graph where the bad men fucked you, decoupling the dollar and gold
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[–]PumperNikel0 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
We’ll triple those numbers in no time, baby.
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[–]mathaiser 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
It’s like “who’s line is it anyway” where everything is made up and
the points don’t matter.
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[–]shadowmage666 7 points8 points9 points 4 days ago
Almost like money not backed by anything devalues heavily over time, hmmm
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[–]roofgram 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
A fiat currency needs to be ‘backed’ by leaders with enough self
control to not run the money printers at full throttle. Since that
seems impossible now, the only answer is gold or bitcoin.
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[–]Firebelley 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Nice little spiral we have going on. It's politically impossible to
make the budget reforms necessary, so we're just gonna see what level
of debt will completely destroy the global economy. At least it might
be a learning experience for future governments (probably not though).
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Welcome to the United States of Zimbabwe Economics.
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[–]PopLock-N-Hold-it 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Compounding interest right in the ass
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[–]National-Ad630 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
What a time to be alive!
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[–]Holdino01 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
If you flip it upside down it I’ll soon be the bitcoin chart
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[–]theproblemofevil666 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Quadrillion debt, now in the crosshairs.
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[–]aed38 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Would this be called a blow-off bottom? I think we've gone past the
point of no return.
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[–]sescobreezy727 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
double that by 2030, 62 trillion.
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[–]therobohour 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Does...does it matter?
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[–]SuspiciousStable9649 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago
In theory, eventually the interest payment on the debt will overwhelm
the annual budget. I have no idea what will happen to regular folks.
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[–]therobohour 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
And that would be different how?
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[–]BradBiondo 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Complete morons running the country
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
What would you do differently ?
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[–]duckofdeath87 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
I don't think Federal Debt and USD money printing should be thought of
as the same thing
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[–]Classic_Ad3154 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I guess if this was a stock the rest of the world would have been
shorting it since the 70's!
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[–]Zanakant 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
these are rookie numbers
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[–]unholyphysics 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Does anyone have a logged graph of this?
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[–]Friendly-Western-677redditor for 3 months 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Negative debt means they are rich though. LOL
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[–]rottiesrule88 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
It is to protect us from the speculators.
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
LMAO! YES!!
THAT is what Nixon claimed! What a criminal stooge he was!
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[–]fisherprice1234_1776 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
That's why a home now costs 600k for a POS
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[–]steaveaseageal 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I see -32t 🚀🚀🚀🔥🔥
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[–]DetectiveTank 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Nothing a couple platinum shitcoins can't fix, right?!
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[–]SecureCross 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Fed’s money printer:
BUT WAIT! There’s more
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[–]SrDiluca1992 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
A toast to the land of opportunities.
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[–]swingerfinger 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
but nvda !!!!
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[–]r4wbon3 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I get the Nixon drop, but what the heck about the 1940s where we
comparatively spent ~1 Trillion, that just seems so off.
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[–]CodyInColor 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
The mustache man was trying to take over Europe (and then the world)
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
War
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[–]Flat4Power4Life 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
You can see exactly when we switched to a credit based system in the 80’s.
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[–]Mummy_Disciplineredditor for 3 weeks 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Yikes....DCA BTC
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[–]SaggeeDot 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
As they say, “This is good for Bitcoin.”
Actually
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[–]Traditional_Tomato48 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
America has been spreading wealth around the world and concentrating
wealth in the financial sector.
As much as I love global trade, it feels like there will have to be
some kind of change at some point and price stabilization.
The most powerful nation on earth being that far in debt is dangerous
for everyone.
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[–]Equal-Wave-8443 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Apparently, money printers go brrr.
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[–]Brickback721 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Blame the Taxcuts for the wealthy and Reagan
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[–]allenout[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
The conomy has grown a lot since 1980, there are companies now which
are more valuable than the entire GDP of the US back then.
You need to look at Debt as of % of GDP to get an accurate figure.
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[–]18476 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Another interesting fact. The ENTIRETY OF WWII cost the USA 4.1
Trillion adjusted for inflation. Debt/GDP is fawked.
Source
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[–]Alternative-Maybe183 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
debt forever.. usa wont be able to payback even 50% debt. This sort of
overspending will collapse USA sooner or later. things can only go on
for a period and nit forever.. collapse is Imminent ..
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[–]Alternative-Maybe183 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Yearly bill of 800 billion usd for milliatry? no doubt the inflated debt..
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[–]One_Scratcho 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
What debt if they prints money? If i print momey its crime tho...
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[–]wall_st_yoda 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Clearly going away from the gold standard is what started this and led
to where we are at now
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[–]TriggeredUBruh82 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
This!
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[–]waffles4us 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
As a country, this is also representative of what our physical
activity levels have done
And inversely what our caloric intake has done
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[–]overcooked_sap 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
So old I remember when it crossed the 1 trillion mark and it was all
over the news.
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[–]monkofnow 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
Very thankful for this!!!
Without this, Bitcoin wouldn't have been created! :)
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[–]monkofnow 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Witnessing the rise of Bitcoin is like
Witnessing Van Gogh in person paint Starry Night.
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[–]AtlaStar 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
And the national wealth to debt ratio has gone from 6.67 since 1990 to
4.38, which is a much more interesting metric.
So even though our debt has increased by about x10 since 1990, our
overall wealth has only increased by about x7.
Overall we have less wealth per debt than before, so I agree we need
to reign in debt or put our debt to better use...but showing debt in a
vacuum is meaningless. This also doesn't account for any wealth hiding
shenanigans the uber rich pull, but it is still apt even without that
data because that hidden wealth is functionally not benefitting the
rest of society anyway; if overall wealth has increased to a greater
amount, or even surpassed debt increases, it'd just show that our
national debt is being used in a way to assist the uber wealthy which
would be even worse than wealth not increasing as much as our debts.
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[–]bmorehalfazn 4 points5 points6 points 4 days ago
Right - after seeing this I immediately googled the US GDP over 20
years as well. It hasn’t increased as drastically, but there’s a clear
correlation. The prevailing idea from a public service POV is that
debt we saddle is used to improve the country for all (in theory). We
take on debt to invest in infrastructure because that has long term
payouts (increase in commerce, reduction in traffic congestion,
increase in metropolitan revenues); we invest in education because
that has long term payouts (innovation, skilled labor, efficiency,
etc); we invest in military for long term payouts (won’t go into
this); we invest in healthcare for long term payouts (healthier
populace means less expenditure for more expensive treatments, less
public funding required for communicable disease tx and remedies,
etc). I’m less worried about our debt as I am our GDP growth. In
theory, we’re putting a lot of this money into areas that will pay
dividends. When our GDP starts dropping drastically while the debt
continues to grow is where we’ll hit real problems. Understandably,
continuing to run a deficit is not ideal, but under liberal/moderate
leadership I have more confidence that this money is going towards
infrastructure, healthcare, and education, rather than funding tax
breaks for the rich at the expense of the country. 8 trillion over the
4 years from the previous administration was insane for what little
went into actual forward thinking policies and investments.
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[–]AtlaStar 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
This is my thought as well, but as I said there definitely is a
shrinking of that ratio, which suggests that the debt is being used in
a less effective way than it was previously. Now this could be due to
a multitude of factors, and as I couldn't find a chart of that ratio
but had to derive it myself I would be interested how such a chart
would correlate to recessions and increases in corporate wealth.
Edit: to clarify the numbers I was posted was not the debt to GDP
ratio but household wealth to debt, of which there is not a chart
comparison of like there is for debt to GDP.
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Shush up with your reason and logic! This is Reddit where only FUD and
panic are allowed.
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[–]CodyInColor 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Government debt in isolation is a strange/irrelevant number to look at.
The relevant number is debt/GDP ratio, and for most healthy economies
it's between 50%-100% (although there are exceptions).
The US sits around ~120% last time I checked (which is prob a bit bloated).
For reference: Japan is 230% Greece is 170% France, Spain, Egypt, &
Canada are all ~100% Germany is 60% South Korea is 40%
I frequently see people talk about how "America debt bad", which is a
poor criticism. I don't disagree that we have too much debt, but it's
not bad because number big, it's bad because it represents an outsized
percentage of our GDP.
Debt/GDP doesn't tell the whole economic story, but it is a better
metric than just the debt. It's the equivalent of telling me how much
debt Microsoft has. Like okay? and what were their earnings last year?
What are they investing their debt into? etc.
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[–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
US debt to gdp sits at 129%. Since 1800, 51 of 52 countries that
reached 130% debt to gdp eventually defaulted. The one exception is
Japan which is hanging off a cliff, buy their own bonds with the
central bank and engaging yield curve controls. Greece already
defaulted a few years ago.
The US is literally in a debt spiral in which it has to keep borrowing
more to pay debts rolling over. As the national debt grows, more and
more of the gdp will have to go to interest payments. Its own Treasury
department released a report titled "An Unstainable Path" in which it
projects debt to gdp to reach 200% by 2040, and exceed 400% by 2060...
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[–]CodyInColor 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago*
It's important to keep two things in mind
1) The US is incapable of defaulting regardless of debt. Even in the
worst case scenario, we still print the currency that our debt is
issued in.
2) That treasury report is made to explain our current fiscal
situation & persuade government officials that change is needed before
a problem gets too big. It's NOT a real prediction. It assumes
"current policy will continue indefinitely".
"To determine if current fiscal policy is sustainable, the projections
based on the assumptions discussed in the Financial Report assume
current policy will continue indefinitely.1 The projections are
therefore neither forecasts nor predictions. Nevertheless, the
projections demonstrate that policy changes need to be enacted for the
actual financial outcomes to differ from those projected"
So, the real concern is something like: How likely is US fiscal policy
to change, such that, it stabilizes &/or reverses the current trend of
increasing debt/GDP?
I would posit that it's much more likely than not, but in a democratic
system you never truly know what will happen lol. That's one of the
many reason BTC is an attractive option - a fixed monetary policy, not
subjected to election cycles, politicians, or democratic whims.
edit: formatting
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[–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
1) The US is incapable of defaulting regardless of debt. Even in
the worst case scenario, we still print the currency that our debt is
issued in.
This is not true. As debt to gdp rises, more and more of government
tax revenue has to go to interest payments. Printing the currency
doesn't work forever because 1) This increases inflation and at some
point you get hyperinflation and the currency collapses and 2)
Government bond yields become worthless as inflation outpaces their
yield. The government has to yield curve control which increases debt
payments or risk not being able borrow money anymore. Worst case it
has its own central bank buy its own bonds (seen japan)
2) That treasury report is made to explain our current fiscal
situation & persuade government officials that change is needed before
a problem gets too big. It's NOT a real prediction. It assumes
"current policy will continue indefinitely".
Idk if you've noticed by the government has not changed course since
the 1970s. The only way to get out of this is to cut spending or raise
taxes which are both political suicide. And we're past the point of no
return. It has to keep borrowing. It's not going to reverse.
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[–]CodyInColor 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Printing the currency doesn't work
Except it literally does. Yes this causes inflation. Yes it's bad for
ordinary citizens as it devalues their currency and lowers PPP. Yes
bond yields will go down. This isn't the best option (literal worst
case scenario & very unlikely), but it is possible.
The only way to get out of this is to cut spending or raise taxes
which are both political suicide
So you see spending cuts & raising taxes as political suicide.... But
you don't see the US government defaulting on it's debts as political
suicide? One of these things is clearly worse than the others. Also,
being anti-default is a bi-partisan issue. Nobody, democrats or
republicans, wish to default. They disagree about the best way to
avoid it, but nobody is pro-default lol.
And we're past the point of no return ... It's not going to reverse
Nope. Like you mentioned spending cuts and/or higher taxes would do
the job. Also, higher gdp does the job too. A hallmark of the American
economy is the ability to innovate your way out of problems.
So, austerity measures, innovation, or some combination of the two is
what avoids a default. Not past the point of no return just yet.
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[–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
So you see spending cuts & raising taxes as political suicide....
But you don't see the US government defaulting on it's debts as
political suicide? One of these things is clearly worse than the
others. Also, being anti-default is a bi-partisan issue. Nobody,
democrats or republicans, wish to default. They disagree about the
best way to avoid it, but nobody is pro-default lol.
I agree no one is pro-default. Defaulting is obviously worse and
that's why they will keep raising the debt ceiling and kick the can
down the road. This supports my point that they cannot reverse course.
Nope. Like you mentioned spending cuts and/or higher taxes would
do the job. Also, higher gdp does the job too. A hallmark of the
American economy is the ability to innovate your way out of problems.
I admire your optimism on this topic but congress has not indicated
they will cut spending or raise taxes enough to reverse course for
decades. They don't have the political will and the actions needed
would be quite drastic.
Higher gdp is less likely because 1) the workforce is shrinking, not
growing due to lower birth rates and 2) productivity needs to increase
gdp several fold to even make a dent in the debt to gdp ratio.
This is a serious problem that no is even trying to solve. It's not
turning around.
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[–]DrRobertBottle 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Rule #3 of bitcoin, all graphs should be plotted on a log graph
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Agreed
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[–]Knerd5 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Funny how things go out of control when Regan was elected and
absolutely slashed taxes at the top end.
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[–]dkstyle702 4 points5 points6 points 4 days ago
Yup that’s capitalism and trickle down method. It works so well
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[–]Knerd5 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Yup, it makes total sense if you don’t think about.
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[–]rnddude4828 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Haha and they say bitcoin is a bubble
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[–]Most-Detective3786 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
The dollar is worth zero ... The thing is: people haven't realized yet. 🤣
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[–]Quiet_International 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
Btc is also worth zero of dollar is worth zero.
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[–]PM_ME_YOUR_THESES 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
I love bitcoin and I agree with the sentiment on debt here. But this
number is just stupid. Nobody cares what the debt’s size is by itself.
The relevant number is a ratio of debt to budget income, or debt to
GDP.
If you saw two people on the street, and one was $100 in debt and the
other was $100,000 in debt, you wouldn’t necessarily think the guy
with the bigger debt was poorer. But if I told you the guy with $100
in debt was jobless and had a disability that prevented him from work,
and his debt was to a drug dealer, and the other guy was an exec
making $500,000 a year and his debt was his mortgage, then you’d
understand that the guy with $100 debt was worse off…
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[–]CodyInColor 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Exactly. "Big debt bad" is a poor argument.
"Debt/GDP ratio too high" is a more reasonable argument
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[–]reggie_crypto 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
I think the takeaway here is the progression of the trend over time,
rather than the size.
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[–]PM_ME_YOUR_THESES 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
But if income were rising faster than debt, what would it matter?
My point isn’t that it’s wrong to worry. My point is that the other
figure (debt/gdp ratio) is more resistant to criticism.
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[–]ElderBlade 2 points3 points4 points 4 days ago
Add at least another $4 trillion over the next 2 years with the debt
ceiling SUSPENDED.
We likely won't ever have a debt ceiling again. Expect the debt to
accelerate moving forward.
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
We likely won't ever have a debt ceiling again.
Ooof.
You're right. Move over Zimbabwe...
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[–]Brettanomyces78 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
The debt ceiling has nothing to do with this.
Congress is not limited by it when appropriating funds. The issue of
the debt ceiling is only a question of if we pay the bills we already
committed money for. Not unlike paying your credit card balance, or
not. The money was spent in advance.
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[–]ElderBlade -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
The debt ceiling is suspended until January 1st, 2025. That is beyond
the approved budget for fiscal year 2024, and there are no caps after
fiscal 2025.
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[–]Brettanomyces78 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
I'm not sure what your point is.
The debt ceiling is political theater. It serves no practical purpose,
and never has. Suspending it for two years just removes the theater
for almost 2 years.
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[–]ElderBlade -2 points-1 points0 points 3 days ago
The point is they have a window of unlimited spending. And my original
point is saying they will just extend it again in 2025, effectively
eliminating the debt ceiling.
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[–]Brettanomyces78 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago
That's where you're fundamentally wrong on this (i.e., there is not a
new window of unlimited spending). I believe it's because you don't
understand how the budgeting process works and how Congress
appropriates funds. Specifically, you seem to be under the mistaken
impression that the debt ceiling limits the spending of the federal
government. It does not, and never has.
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[–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
It seems you are misunderstanding the details of the bill. I know that
congress has already budgeted and approved the spending for this year.
The debt ceiling needs to be raised in order to pay for the already
approved spending.
This bill completely suspends the debt ceiling until 2025 with some
caps on non-defense spending. And after 2025, there are no caps. This
is effectively unlimited spending in this 2 year period and beyond.
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[–]Brettanomyces78 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
First paragraph indicates you probably do get this. But to be fair,
you weren't displaying that earlier.
So what caps existed on spending prior to this bill? What changed,
exactly? You're implying there were hard caps before?
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[–]ElderBlade 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
The cap that existed prior to the bill was the debt ceiling. With the
debt ceiling suspended, they are placing caps on spending until 2025
as a way of limiting spending, but it only applies to non-defense
spending.
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[–]Brettanomyces78 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
So we're back to square one. You really don't get that the debt
ceiling does not cap spending after all. Never has.
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continue this thread
[–]independenthinkerdc 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Ronald Reagan and the rest of the GOP cutting taxes for the rich and
starting endless wars…
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[–]DetectiveTank 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
This is a bipartisan effort my friend.
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[–]independenthinkerdc 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Reagan was president in the entire 80s and cut taxes for the rich and
corporations across the board. Look again at the timeline - that is
when things started snowballing.
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[–]DetectiveTank 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Well I'm not going to argue that Reaganomics wasn't a scam. It definitely was.
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[–]magnetichira 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
They ain't paying that back
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[–]red325is 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
you think? lol
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[–]magnetichira 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY3VVhx__qo
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[–]BrotherAmazing 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Yes they are, just in dollars whose purchasing power is less than what
it is today! 😆
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[–]RTGold 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Show a chart that was GDP. It'll look nearly the same.
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[–]SaneLad 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Yes it's bad. These kind of charts really need to be adjusted for
inflation though. National debt numbers are only meaningful if
adjusted for inflation or relative to GDP.
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[–]Responsible_Cod_1453 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Interesting, no wonder they hoarding gold coz eventually it'll have to
go to gold standard or standard that the masses choose
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[–]poluting 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
I was just thinking the only way out of this is to go back to the gold
standard. But that won’t happen until the value of the dollar is
absolutely obliterated.
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[–]republicans_are_aids -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
It will fake a whole new currency backed by gold... Which is what
brics is attempting to do.
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[–]Jezzes 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Good thing we have a debt ceiling lol
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[–]volcanonacho 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
That house seems to be remodeled quite often.
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[–]Familiar-Unfamiliar 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Love how the only lateral movement in recent years was Obama
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[–]steezyleadhook 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
doesn't mean anything in reality. Inflation, GDP increase, etc etc.
This shit is just scaremongering propoganda
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[–]rudy_batts 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Actually 80% of it was printed in the past 14 years
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[–]Wrldtrvlr2021 -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
It is only going to go higher with all the illegals pouring in.
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[–]narrowphoenix_2006 -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
And not much to show for it……🤮
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[–]SusanMilberger 1 point2 points3 points 4 days ago
Besides the military lol
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[–]Timelapze -1 points0 points1 point 4 days ago
What’s the debt to GDP ratio look like over that time period?
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[+]Zealousideal_Neck78 -9 points-8 points-7 points 4 days ago
Entitlements out of control will do that.
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[–]nyaaaa 5 points6 points7 points 4 days ago
No. Stop getting brainwashed by capitalists.
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[–]DaddyDontTakeNoMess 3 points4 points5 points 4 days ago
If you mean “entitlements” to mean “tax breaks for the rich”, then,
yes, I agree with you.
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[–]mandrake92 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
2 wars and several interventions sure didn't help. Really especially
the invasion of Iraq was used to line the pockets of the rich. Not
even stealing oil. Dick Cheney was a former ceo of a company that got
the largest dod contract at the time. Suspicious how his buddies got
that.
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[–]motbackwords -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 days ago
This goes to my theory that everything went to shit with Ronald
Reagan. He had Alzheimer’s, and the deep state took full advantage of
that, and it’s been downhill ever sense.
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[–]Jim_Reality 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Wait. Who are we in debt too????
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[–]Umpire_State_Bldg 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
The people we're paying interest payments on that debt to.
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[–]Last_Nefariousness88 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
What is that 5 trillion in today's dollars?
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[–]Beesters2005 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Its fine
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[–]Analog_AI 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
When I see the froth from 5 T to 32 T in just 20 years, I’m impressed
at the growth rate. 9.75% growth rate per year is fantastic!
Then I realized that’s the growth rate of the debt. Not looking so fret now.
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[–]DarthBen_in_Chicago 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
It is unrealistic for this to be paid down as it would require
sacrifices by all and bold decisions by politicians.
Save yourself by saving in bitcoin.
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[–]eternalpenguin 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Debt should be depicted in logarithmic scale. This will ensure that it
does not look frightening
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[–]jonesocnosis 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
The better chart is the one that shows the revenue and the deficit on
the same chart.
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[–]RattleSnakeSkin 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Love budget season. Best advert for BTC!
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[–]Tjomek 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
These guys need a reddit account so they can post this loss porn on
r/wallstreetbets
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[–]PhysicalConnection80 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Yeah but it's not real money. Physical gold is real money. What it is.
Is a private central bank issuing instruments of debt to a corrupt -
fake company called US. Gov. You have to be real stupid not see that
its nothing more then toilet paper printed 100 usd on it - fooling the
public as real money.
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[–]Mpc1300 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
I think it’s helpful to stop looking at the debt as “money we owe” but
rather as “currency we’ve exported” then you will understand why, for
better or worse, a voluntary default is never gonna happen. The US
military industrial complex has become a corporation that sells debt,
and inherent in this is an ever rising national deficit. The byproduct
of this that “they” (the socio economic elite in America) get
extremely wealthy and powerful, the average US citizen gets a
devaluing pension (social security) and the rest of the world gets
enslaved by inflation. The system is working exactly as it’s intended
to; an exponentially rising national deficit is a feature not a bug.
This whole structure is backed by war and the assumption that America
will remain productive enough to prob up the system.
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[–]No-Calligrapher255 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Still 21milli!
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[–]Academic-Geologist-1 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
I thank the geriatric community of America
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[–]FrizzleFrazzleFrickredditor for 3 months 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Looks like a scalable mountain.
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[–]BITMiningLimited 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
The newly minted bitcoin chart looks like the exact opposite
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[–]Professional-Kiwi144 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Don’t be scared, it is just upside down
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[–]HornyDudeLB 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Yea, ppl are freeloaders and like their social programs without
budgeting, money has to come from somewhere, it doesn’t magically
appear. Long time ago, I knew this lady who was getting ebt and buying
so much food, she was giving it away because it was about to expire. I
understand cost of living is high and people sometimes need help, but
there’s a fine line between help and abusing. Also, we want to create
all these programs to help homelessness, it’s a problem, but they’re
not cheap either, and people love tax cuts but not paying taxes, which
is the only way the gov makes money
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[–]DontMindMeJustTripinredditor for 7 weeks 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
When this is compared to an inflation and total us currency char it matches up
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[–]Anonyman0009 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Big crash of tech stocks in 2000, then after 9/11 in 2001 and the keep
America rolling campaign launched by Bush Jr with 0% rates, it's been
piling on and that money printer has been on fire
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[–]steve21585 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
And they have the nerve to give us credit scores. The hypocrisy
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[–]Stew-Cee23 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
The way it's increased exponentially... Yikes
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[–]stayyfr0styy 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Ah yes, after leaving the gold standard 50 years ago, spending and
debt has become exponential
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[–]SleepPressure 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Self inflicted.
Starve the beast doesn't work if you cut revenues but don't cut spending.
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[–]deepaltvalue 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Well yeah when you see the economy start collapsing you've got to
spend more to prop it up artificially so that everything else doesn't
collapse too.
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[–]marlinmarlin99 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Used to be awe in middle school when debt was under 10 trillion. Shits
getting crazy
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[–]forgotmypassword4714redditor for 4 weeks 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
We definitely can't afford to be always sending billions of dollars to
other countries. In fact I'd guess that the countries we give money to
aren't as deep in debt as we are.
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[–]wowridiculous 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
What’s next? The $1000 dollar bill is on the way?
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[–]Demonyx12 0 points1 point2 points 4 days ago
Tulips doing what tulips do.
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[–]Robinhood-is-a-scam 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
In debt to who? Aliens? That’s the problem. Who is the Don? What
entities are those that have no debt and have enslaved every country
with these debt mountains? The globe is something like 150 -250
trillion dollars in debt.
“Central banks” isn’t a good enough answer.
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[–]this_is_me_1990 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
This is a good question. Like, who’s the debtee here?
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[–]DrNO811 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/05/the-federal-government-has-borrowed-trillions-but-who-owns-all-that-debt#:\~:text=Investors%20in%20Japan%20and%20China,purchases%20of%20U.S.%20Treasury%20securities.
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[–]egpayne93 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Take this chart, rotate 180, and realize thousands if not more
benefitted from this. I am mad “sips beer”
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[–]whodatus 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
I like how pointy it is now, looks sharp 😎
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[–]ExtraSir6817 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Tax cuts to the rich-look at the trend for income inequality too
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[–]ComplexWatercress113redditor for 7 weeks 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Apparently, someone forgot to carry the Bitcoin.
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[–]Smilejester 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Capitalism is fragile
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[–]System900rrCity 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Can this get steep enough that we travel back in time
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[–]bowdo 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
https://youtu.be/O1hCLBTD5RM
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[–]Albertsongman 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Stock market returns are heavily mitigated by the devaluation of the dollar.
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[–]Spartanarrow2023redditor for 2 weeks 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
i saw the future... 230 trillions in 2100... USD is strong!
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[–]419Patrone 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago
Because there are more things over the time and u all like thinks .
the 500 coins from a kingdom in the middle age wont be enough to give
everything it’s worth. That’s y the print enough money for everything
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[–]karmassacre 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago
1971 and 2001... oof.
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