Morning Spam

[Undiscussed Groomed for Male Slavery, One Victim of Many]

confidential & proprietary recently started burning messages after 24
hours which is sketchy imho

i engaged a knee jerk banter habit. i think i might have learned this
habit for this list not certain.

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM] my attitudes towards MS and Apple
are basically the same; there are plenty of legitimate things to
complain about, we don't need to come up with bullshit ones

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:13 PM] I like how you think

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:14 PM] idk I just try to live down here in
the real world instead of in FSF/etc fantasyland

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:14 PM] capitalism is the problem,
microsoft is a symptom

ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:16 PM] Exactly this.

ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:16 PM] And if you’re really going to be that
dogmatic, why don’t you make your own entirely open source computer,
rather than buying one made by a corporation?

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:17 PM] whining about dumb BS just makes it
less likely that people will listen when you complain about actual
problems

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:17 PM] pick ur battles people

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:18 PM] >_>

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:19 PM] the answer to this always boils
down to "...cuz it would be shit"

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:19 PM] case in point
https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:20 PM] round 2: still pretty shit
https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:20 PM] about the best you can do is
probably pinebook pro? which only gets away as blob-free on a
technicality

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:21 PM] it's shit until the goonies stop beating
you up so their bosses can keep setting higher prices, and then
everybody installs your kernel on their android phones

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:22 PM] ahem wat by which i mean, "I
understood those words but I am not at all sure what you mean"

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:23 PM] apple started in a garage microsoft
started by ripping off apple linux is everywhere and behind corporate
machine learning etc the novena is great it doesn't upload random
snippets of your voice to the cloud to run arbitrary algorithms on
what you say

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:24 PM] the first two things listed
literally mean nothing

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] > microsoft started by ripping off
apple I think you'll find microsoft started by pulling one over on IBM
actually

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] ;P go peddle closed software elsewhere

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] hey they copied Xerox too

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] you're probably right, i was thinking of
the windows ui

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] EVERYONE copied xerox because xerox
WANTED everyone to copy them

ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:25 PM] “copied” snickers

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] because xerox upper management were
entirely uninterested in letting them actually make a vaguely consumer
product

ㅤ, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] And yet you use the closed-source
Telegram messaging service. Curious

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] a dead friend recommended it to me
because it was popular and had an open-source cli client that worked
at the time

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] double standards? in
MYYYYYYYYYYYYYY open source evangelism?!

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:26 PM] weird take, the group name is
literally “Confidential & Proprietary”

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] i just used it to message her, but now
here i am on c&p

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] also at what point did I peddle any software

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] dude

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] if you want to go all the way and make
open hardware

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:27 PM] you didn’t do the FSF circlejerk thing :((

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] join the thousands of people doing so
with the help of leaks shared on this telegram channel

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] I like that you think I don't do that

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] no I said didn’t

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] nono that was @ k

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] like just now

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] O

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] LMAO

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:28 PM] oops

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:29 PM] I do make open hardware

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:29 PM] what open hardware do you make

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] and I spend quite a bit of my
non-wageslave time (and some of my wageslave time tbh, remember
stealing from ur employer is morally correct in a capitalist society)
adding software support for semi-open hardware to things

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] also adding open software support
to closed hardware

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:30 PM] ok look i have adhd and most of
what I've done so far is unfinished and/or unreleased BUT

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:31 PM] https://neggles.github.io/electronics

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:31 PM] nice

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:32 PM] idk why there's this obsession with
absolutes? perfect is the enemy of better

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:33 PM] we can praise companies when they
do things right while still admonishing them for what they do wrong

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:34 PM] especially since a lot of the time
they literally had no choice; most wifi router vendors are doing
secure boot nonsense because the FCC won't certify their shit if they
don't, for example

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:34 PM] same w/ wifi card firmware blorbs,
releasing sources gets them in trouble especially with modern wifi
radios which are basically 2.4/5/6GHz band SDRs with ludicrous
capabilities

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:42 PM] do I wish things were vastly more
open? of course I fucking do, but they aren't, and there are reasons
they aren't, many of which are beyond the control of the
company/companies responsible for making the hardware.

This is the world we live in, a world ruled by greedy billionaires,
lawyers, politicians, and an uninformed, purposefully uneducated,
reactionary public who largely don't give a shit. We would all be
better off if things were different, even the billionaires would be,
but they're too fuckin' dumb to see it.

now you can sit around wasting time and energy whining about how we
should already be over the luxury gay space communist finish line, or
you spend that time and energy looking for ways to push things in the
right direction and making whatever difference you can

which sounds more productive?

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:42 PM] ok im done being a condescending
preachy asshole just ugh, u kno?

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] it’s inspiring how things are so
billionaired that a single individual changes the world on a regular
basis

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] no they don't

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] they get the credit, because they steal it

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] on a _regular_ basis…?

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] elon musk did nothing on his own,
jeff bezos did nothing on his own, steve jobs did nothing on his own,
<insert name> did nothing on their own, elizabeth holmes did nothing
at all

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:44 PM] seems random to me but people seem to
appreciate stealing just as much

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] see: "an uninformed, purposefully
uneducated, reactionary public"

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] i mean like linus torvalds or this chat
and all the stuff in between

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] wait

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:45 PM] if it hadn't been torvalds it
would've been someone else

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] okay this is what I thought you meant

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] lol

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] and right from day one he had other
people helping

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] maybe openbsd would run the world then

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:46 PM] BSD would probably run the world if
not for AT&T et. al. and lawyers yes

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:47 PM] arguably that'd be worse, given how
unrestrictive the BSD licenses are

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:47 PM] around 1999 a popular computer game
series went defunct it was the end i went on the forums and said i was
making a fan-based sequel and had started development and to contact
me if anybody wanted to help over a hundred people contacted me and we
started a huge project

but if i had never made that post and done that initial work it would
have never happened it would have just been a corporate product

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:48 PM] consider that any of those other
hundred people could've been the one to do it as well i'm sure several
of them had already had the idea

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:48 PM] if it hadn't been you it would've
been someone else

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] few people are both software developers
and community leaders

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] but it’s not hard

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] you just have to actually do the work,
and the outreach, both

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:49 PM] yes, anyone can be if they decide
they want to

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it’s easy to decide to

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] so few people do that we have linus
torvaldses everywhere

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it’s hard to actually do it for most people

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] did I say it was easy? :P

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] it's not

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] but there are enough people on this
rock - were even then - that someone else would've done it, if it was
worth doing

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] that was a response to this :)

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:50 PM] but what i mean is that a single person
can change the course of history

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] a single person can appear to
change the course of history yes

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] by being the person to actually tell
chatgpt to make an opensource copy of itself in a classic ai form, and
going everywhere and giving it to everybody

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] uh

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] that's not how that works

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] this is a joke right?

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:52 PM] fucking americans i swear to god

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:52 PM] that deeply-ingrained concept of
"you're special" and "one <person> can change the world" is exactly
what's kept you all where you are

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] you're not special, linus torvalds
isn't special, maia isn't special, I'm not special

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] that doesn't matter one fuckin bit mind u but

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] it’s a temporary state of reality until
the massive sheeping of everyone reduces so it isn’t so easy

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:53 PM] mmk this is a pointless discussion

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:51 PM] and until somebody does that, the world
is not yet changed

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] america, land of the special

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] everybody is special, nobody is
special, both these things are true and neither of them matter

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] “you’re special so you deserve more
than other people”

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] everyone who appears to be a single
special individual is actually just the one who has been assigned
responsibility and credit for the work of thousands, even millions of
others

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] I mean christ look at fucking Musk

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] no!!! he sent a car to mars!!!!!!!!!

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] man is clearly an abject fucking moron

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] he did it, himself

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] 10000%

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:54 PM] “don’t let anyone tell you you’re
not special. you are!”

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] he was in the right place at the
right time with the right puddle of blood money

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] if it hadn't been him it would've
been someone else

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:56 PM] it doesn't take a genius to work
out that you can probably build a rocket engine comparable to the
RL-10 for less than the $20m they cost

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:57 PM] nor does it take a genius to work
out "lithium batteries will likely reach a level where electric
vehicles are practical inside the next 5-10 years"

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:57 PM] i have an ongoing project to design a
rocketship made out of toiletpaper (hrm off topic, might be
destabilizing, thanks for the banter)

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:58 PM] (and it certainly doesn't take a
genius to halfway torpedo twitter)

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:58 PM] Gwynne Shotwell deserves more
credit for SpaceX than Musk does

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] how dare you say that about our
lord and savior elon musk

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] he deserves all the credit because
he’s a literal genius!

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:59 PM] and definitely did not fake a few degrees

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 8:55 PM] i’d agree with you but people do more
stuff if you give them credit, it’s nice to have stuff done. it’s also
risky and hard.

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] seems more like brute force to me tbh

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] but there are undoubtedly countless
others who could've done the same, and at least some of them with a
bit less in the way of pissing off the SEC

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] ehh i am lead to believe he's not a
completely useless engineer, and he clearly made at least a few good
choices at some point

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] but

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] he's not special

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] mostly he got lucky

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:01 PM] well he sold a piece of software 30
years ago so yeah

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] bezos got lucky, gates got lucky,
jobs got lucky a solid half a dozen times

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] torvalds got lucky!

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:00 PM] he's not entirely unskilled, he got
some of the right people into the right places at the right time and
pointed them in a somewhat correct direction

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] /s

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] welp

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] das just how it be sometimes

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] note that it’s luck*working your butt off
when you’re doing the work yourself

K, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:05 PM] but it’s generally fun to do that if
you’re succeeding and appreciated

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:06 PM] are death threats a form of appreciation?

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:06 PM]

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:07 PM] it’s the ultimate form of appreciation

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:07 PM] if you're doing something to get
admiration and appreciation for it you're doing it wrong

Raymonf, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:02 PM] curl dev did not get lucky :(

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM] was torvalds doing it for appreciation?

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM] appreciation is nice, sure, but
it's not the goal

neggles, [Feb 19, 2023 at 9:11 PM]
https://lwn.net/2001/0823/a/lt-announcement.php3