Cryptocurrency: Noting The Carnage
grarpamp
grarpamp at gmail.com
Wed Nov 9 12:22:44 PST 2022
We’re about to find out about effective altruism (i.redd.it)
submitted 4 hours ago by mehtabot
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[–]leducdeguisethis is not financial advice 150 points 4 hours ago
CZ probably didn't like the recipe used at FTX to cook the books.
Cooking is a very personal thing
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[–]Zhukov-74 33 points 3 hours ago
This is exactly why Regulations exist.
It’s insane that this was just allowed to happen for years on end.
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[–]bobj33The margin call is coming from inside the scam! 5 points 2 hours ago
Bankman Fraud has made millions in campaign contributions
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[–]FPL_Harry 6 points an hour ago
hundreds of millions.
I know it's a common dumb whataboutist claim from the butters but
truly the American system of government that allows "official bribing"
under the moniker of "lobbying" is in incredible scam on their people
too.
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[–]bigmean3434 3 points an hour ago
Amen
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[–]paul__k 36 points 3 hours ago
Take 2 parts Enron, 1 part Lehman, add dangerously high levels of
leverage, and let simmer on medium heat for 12-18 months.
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[–]Couve_do_Lidlrecognizes genius 8 points 3 hours ago
Goes well with a glass of Stampante Paolo Ardoino D.O.P.
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[–]Boollish 22 points 3 hours ago
Or it was always just a scheme to prop up confidence in markets while
they ran for the exits.
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[–]Grig134 3 points an hour ago
This is my thought as well.
Binance is fully aware of the financial chicanery FTX is up to.
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[–]shemanese 21 points 3 hours ago
I knew this was dead when they said they needed to do a due diligence
and a non-binding LOI...
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[+]realhuman8762 comment score below threshold (5 children)
[–]ShotgunMage 35 points 4 hours ago
CZ fucked up the shorts. Now he's going after the longs.
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[–]AprilSpektra 4 points 2 hours ago
Oh no, not Justin Long!
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[–]Elimaris 7 points 3 hours ago
Captain Cook and the chili pepper signature eh?
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[–]TheRealSlimKami 111 points 4 hours ago
“FTX is going to bail out Celsius!!! They fucked up bad but FTX is
totally solvent and the funds are safe!!”
a few moments later
“Binance is going to bail out FTX!!! They fucked up bad but Binance is….”
What could happen next?! No one knows! All we know is, funds are safu!
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[–]Socalwarrior485 52 points 4 hours ago
Safu? Like “Seriously All Fucked Up”. Nailed it.
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[–]_volkerball_ 36 points 4 hours ago
stolen away from us
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[–]current_the 24 points 2 hours ago
That is pretty much what Darth Roubini's take on the whole thing was:
First FTX bails out collapsing crypto Ponzi scams. Now FTX is
collapsing & being bailed out by Binance. But who will bail out
Binance when that crappy house of cards collapses? Crypto is Mother Of
All Ponzi Schemes!
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[–]LogicIsTheSecret 8 points 2 hours ago
It's like Russian dolls ... one ponzi within another ponzi ... and so
on and on ...
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[–]clint125warning, I am a moron 76 points 4 hours ago
Tether is going to need another printer.
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[–]SnarkConfidant 27 points 4 hours ago
"We're gonna need a bigger boat sucker."
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[–]FlightOfThePigs 14 points 3 hours ago
Paolo is going to need a printing assistant or a big raise. No way can
he man 2 printers on his own
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[–]magicspellingbee 2 points an hour ago
Paolo is investigating extradition treaties.
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[–]Arma_Diller 1 point 2 hours ago
Why do you have that flair?
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[–]magicspellingbee 0 points an hour ago
Another minter.
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[–]anyprophet 50 points 4 hours ago
FTX is looking increasingly like a ponzi but, no shit? what did anyone
expect it to be? does anything thing binance's books are clean? this
was always about destroying a competitor. if there was anything worth
salvaging they were going to take it.
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[–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 41 points 3 hours ago
if there was anything worth salvaging they were going to take it.
I think what was worth salvaging was entirely a look into their books.
FTX obviously has holdings in crypto. Knowing exactly how much and in
which coins means they know which currencies will drop when FTX
liquidates. Whole thing seems like a bit of insider trading—they can
short the entire market, including the coins FTX is most invested in
and control the timing, since only they know exactly when they will
announce the deal "fell through".
It's the kind of scam that is brazenly illegal in the stock market,
but not in a completely unregulated scam market.
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[–]polishlastnames 7 points 2 hours ago
Oh wow. Never thought of it this way. SBF let the Trojan horse in his compound.
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[–]A_Sexual_Tyrannosaur 0 points an hour ago
And by compound, you mean asshole.
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[–]TomStanford67 1 point an hour ago
That sure sounds like fraud that wouldn't escape prosecution
regardless of the lack of regulation around crypto. Just because
crypto is unregulated doesn't mean players in this space are free to
commit all manner of crimes already on the books.
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[–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 1 point an hour ago
Insider trading typically only applies to stocks. If FTX was
publically traded and they pulled the same tricks to short the stock,
the FTC would hunt him to the ends of the earth. But while crypto has
many of the same functions as stocks, but is not covered by the
regulations. Insider trading and open price manipulation have been
rampant in the crypto space for years, as have a number of other
things that are illegal in stocks. They are never prosecuted. What
Elon did with Dogecoin and Bitcoin, for example, would absolutely have
been criminal if he did it with a stock. In fact it was and he was
punished for it when he did it with Tesla (albeit mildly).
There's no fraud here. It's all financial crimes which are
specifically illegal in trading stocks. Half the appeal of the crypto
space is that it operates enough like a stock market for old style
crimes to be reused, but is different enough to not be regulated the
same way.
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[–]HugeBernieExcellent roadmap! 18 points 4 hours ago
Things worth salvaging: SBF's rights to acquire previously bailed out
crypto companies for cheap List of gambling addicts (users)
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[–]TheAnalogKoalaMichael Saylor Poe 11 points 4 hours ago
For sure. The most effective people to scam are previous scam victims.
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[–]Traditional-Ad3161 7 points 3 hours ago
Bingo.
That's why every poster on r/Scams gets dms from recovery scammers and
why people who buy NFTs are common spear-phishing targets.
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[–]brock_h 8 points 3 hours ago
Lol. Let it go into insolvency and the legal system will release the
lists for free like Celsius. Victims of FTX fraud won't win from this.
It needs to be repeated over and over: SBF is a fraudster and a con
artist. People are shifting blame.
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[–]HugeBernieExcellent roadmap! 2 points 2 hours ago
If I'm a casino, I want to buy my rival's contact list and keep it
private. I don't want it leaked. And notably, the Binance and FTX arms
involved here are non-US so no US citizens should even have claims
against them (lol).
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[–]paul__k 14 points 3 hours ago
Spoiler: Crypto in its entirety is all a bunch of highly levered,
interlinked Ponzis.
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[–]Chaaaaaaaarles 1 point an hour ago
"Within spreadsheet cells - interlinked."
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[–]monkorn 1 point 2 hours ago
All Crypto Are Bastards.
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[–]MKorostoffNot Big Tony. Anything but Big Tony! 53 points 3 hours ago
SBF: "Please buy my insolvent company."
CZ: "Yes."
[CZ looks at the books]
CZ: "I can't buy this, it's insolvent."
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[–]UmichAgnos 36 points 4 hours ago
So no one is getting rescued now? Who is going to rescue voyager and celcius?
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[–]barsoapguy 19 points 4 hours ago
No one that’s who .
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[–]PityJ91 23 points 4 hours ago
That no one guy is really generous
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[–]thebabaghanoush 7 points 3 hours ago
Founders already embezzled their cut, and a few early whales cashed out.
They would like to thank all the plebeians who lost money for the extra wealth!
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[–]JennItalia269 10 points 4 hours ago
Waiting for Superman to come to their rescue.
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[–]Nahbjuwet363 4 points 3 hours ago
I hear Alex mashinsky has some GPUs
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[–]MacHaggis 44 points 4 hours ago
Ah, they're pulling an Elon.
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[–]anyprophet 43 points 4 hours ago
lol yeah apt comparison.
"i'm going to buy twitter so i can fix the bot problem!"
"i can't buy twitter there's a bot problem!"
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[–]cromatkastar 37 points 4 hours ago
binance at least learned from elons mistake. signed a non intent
rather than whatever the fuck elon did that made him lose 44 billion
dollars
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[–]Traditional-Ad3161 14 points 3 hours ago
Elon signed an airtight legally binding contract. This was none of those things.
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[–]TheFasterBlaster 4 points 2 hours ago
If by learned you mean listened to anyone with an iota of insight into M&A.
If you’re going to spend billions on a company you might want to
conduct Due Diligence on it first!
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[–]ShouldersofGiants100And DON'T COME BACK! 26 points 3 hours ago
Nah, Elon was dumb enough to make an actual offer, sight unseen. CZ
wrote a deliberately non-binding Letter of Intent—he could show up,
decide he didn't like the colour of a lawyer's tie and drop the deal
for that if he wanted to.
I think most people called this from the start—he was never going
through with it. Use the offer to get access to a whole bunch of
information that might be useful (like, for example, what currencies
he might want to short when FTX collapses because of their holdings)
and then pull out, letting them die.
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[–]DifferentRole 8 points 2 hours ago
To be fair- someone on the internets dared Elon to buy Twitter, his
hands were tied
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[–]current_the 21 points 2 hours ago
If Coindesk keeps doing actual journalism like this there will soon be
no more coins on their desk to write about.
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[–]coriolisFX 3 points an hour ago
inshallah
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[–]barsoapguy 12 points 4 hours ago
The only reason they wanted to see the books is so that they could
figure out who to short ,that’s it .
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[–]recycledbits 6 points 3 hours ago
Also get more time to offload their FTT bag?
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[–]barsoapguy 3 points 3 hours ago
That too
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[–]campionesidd 2 points an hour ago
Wouldn’t that be considered insider trading? Or do cryptos not fall
under that purview?
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[–]barsoapguy 3 points an hour ago
Crypto is new technology, old laws like insider trading don’t apply
because “new”
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[–]campionesidd 2 points an hour ago
A scammer’s paradise indeed.
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[–]IsilZha 2 points an hour ago
Which is a "feature" to cryptovangelists.
Until they want to be saved by the same system that they didn't want
to be regulated by.
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[–]DongerTheWhitewarning, i am a moron Troll 25 points 4 hours ago
“After glancing” lolol
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[–]ShadowHound75 10 points 4 hours ago
Called it!
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[–]Traditional-Ad3161 8 points 3 hours ago
The funniest kind of rugpull.
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[–]mnamilt 8 points 2 hours ago*
Note: this comment is mainly for myself to talk myself through what is
happening. Pure speculation/based on feelings, not on facts.
CZ participates in the flywheel scheme with BNB, and knows that
FTT, CEL and Luna/Terra are flywheel schemes.
CEL and Luna blow up, and the public widely learns about the
existence of flywheel schemes, and how they work.
FTX bails out Alameda over the summer, and CZ somehow privately
learns about this. He now knows that FTX is insolvent, and that this
means impending unavoidable doom for FTX in the future.
Early november the CoinDesk article comes out alleging the
insolvency of FTX.
Based on this, CZ estimates that is inevitable that FTX will blow
up pretty soon, since once the knowledge spreads about this, a bankrun
is inevitable.
CZ holds an 500M USD worth of FTT that will thus soon become
worthless. This spooks CZ into finding a plan how to get as much value
out of the coming disaster, both from the sale of FTT, as well as
other options to profit.
First, he sells as much FTT as possible without moving too much of
the price. Its probably not that much, but its the most he can get out
of it.
Then, he announces of Twitter that they will divest from their
FTT. This ensures that the bankrun will kick off immediately and
happen extremely quickly.
SBF has very little time to respond as when he sees the bankrun
start happen. After the first few hours he can tweet that everything
is fine. A few hours later he has to start beginning people to save
FTX to the tune of a billion dollars. Another few hours later he is in
a 6 billion hole. Everyone says no, because lol. SBF is completely
desperate.
CZ calls SBF to buy FTX and fix the issue, pending he do due
diligence and see the entire orderbook. SBF is so desperate he says
yes, not thinking it through that it is obviously a trap by CZ, as CZ
will obviously back out of the deal.
CZ now has access to the entire orderbook. Binance can now trade
significantly more effectively in the market, and make significantly
more money of it.
CZ cancels the deal, because lol he does not want to have to pay
billions of dollars to people.
Binance tries to extract much assets from FTX by trading against it.
EDIT 15min later: Traders with money in their FTX account now
start trading with funny money, and try to extract as much money from
their accounts as well.
This both leads to money being sucked out of the space at a rapid
speed. This causes the significant drop in prices now.
These prices will continue to drop more and more rapidly, as
everyone will want to put their money out of the system. This might
actually be a deathspiral for the full ecosystem then?
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[–]devliegende 3 points 2 hours ago
I think in general you are spot on in that CZ played the whole thing
to sink SBF. Except that it is likely more about ego than profit. CZ
could end up a loser as well, because next stop maybe more regulations
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[–]blackmobius 6 points 3 hours ago
They dont want to capsize by directly absorbing the losses, a d figure
they can withstand the partial collapse on their own
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[–]TheAnalogKoalaMichael Saylor Poe 7 points 4 hours ago
Wow. Literally no one saw that coming.
No one.
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[–]feignignorencewarning, I am a moron 3 points 3 hours ago
I don't mean to be mean, but SBF's appearance didn't really inspire
confidence... Is it no surprise that his little thing fell apart?
CZ and Kris also don't inspire confidence too btw, lol
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[–]Finnegan_Faux 2 points 2 hours ago
CZ may not bail out SBF after all. That’s FTX’d up.
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[–]YoungMaleficent9068 2 points 2 hours ago
Anyone thought they pull through? Biance has it's cash in musk now.
He's going to sink Twitter. Then Biance collapse.
I am only familiar with chicken nuggies
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[+]BenjyMemeMan 1 point 4 hours ago (0 children)
[–]anonymousnuisance 0 points 2 hours ago
Didn't we just see this with Elon? Won't this go to court? I say this
because he signed a Letter of Intent. Pretty sure that's the same
thing Elon did.
Maybe because of different circumstances this won't be as bad?
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[–]devliegende 4 points 2 hours ago
Elon waived due diligence and signed an actual offer
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[–]Effective_Try_again 2 points an hour ago
Nah they signed a non binding letter, very different from what Musk did
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[+]drlogwasoncemine comment score below threshold (5 children)
[–]LoongBoat 1 point 2 hours ago
When a guy with supposedly a $20 billion net worth keeps playing the
double or nothing game that got him there… eventually the coin lands
tails (unless you’re in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, and
their luck doesn’t last forever either).
Could have taken a few bil and bought something in the real world.
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[–]Remarkable-Ad155 1 point 2 hours ago
Love "glancing" 😂
Wonder what put them off? 🤔
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[–]joyoftoy 1 point 2 hours ago
Gee, didn’t see this one coming
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[–]polishlastnames 1 point 2 hours ago
This is it boys. This is the beginning of the end.
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[–]MightSuggestSex 1 point 2 hours ago
Last chance to get in below...hold on, let me check...17,000! Few understand
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[–]Humble-Economics-648 1 point 2 hours ago
There’s always a way.
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[–]Acceptable-Brain-334 1 point 2 hours ago
Basically all of these crypto exchanges might be handed over to the
Banking Institutions.
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[–]entered_bubble_50 2 points an hour ago
The funniest part of this crypto collapse for me is the number of
crypto bros finding out they never even owned any crypto in the first
place. They "bought" some in these exchanges, and are now finding out
the coins never existed. They just had a number on an account on a
website.
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[–]Jimger_1983 1 point an hour ago
This is good for Bitcoin!!!
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