Cryptocurrency: Newbs Analyze
grarpamp
grarpamp at gmail.com
Fri Dec 30 22:35:35 PST 2022
Wondering why BTC is still red when it’s purpose of existence was
exactly what’s happening yet again (self.Bitcoin)
submitted 13 hours ago by 91TB
firm believer here. Since it’s birth rightfully happened as a
consequence of the financial crisis, I don’t get why BTC is still
moving like the common market. I know the whole world is on fire with
COVID, wars and governments printing money like there’s no tomorrow.
But when I see the stock market crashing I always have the hope that
BTC moves independently since it’s a whole different ball game. I mean
everyone who understands Bitcoin (compared to many here I’m still a
rookie) wouldn’t be so stupid to gamble or yet short it. I know
everyone got their shy which would make you sell some. But unlikely
during a bear.
So it would be nice to enlighten me if it’s still a question of
adoption or what has to happen for the baby to become an adult. PS:
DCA IS THE WAY
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[–]Micksar 260 points 12 hours ago
Because majority of people that buy Bitcoin see it as an investment
vehicle (like a stock). I’d say there’s a small number of folks who
actually see it as “converting my fiat into Bitcoin”. They are buying
something with the intention of selling it for more money.
So it moves with the market because that’s how people treat it. When
they think it’s going up, they put money in. When they are worried
it’ll go down, they take money out. And the stock market and interest
rates are all indicators that people use for “the economic forecast”.
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[–]Shaved_Wookie 24 points 8 hours ago
There's also the issue that all the derivatives have popped up for
BTC, along with many of the issues associated with the presence of
those vehicles in conventional markets.
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[–]Future-Spirit7874redditor for 6 weeks 18 points 7 hours ago
Yes, I hate that they exist.
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[–]LagunaJaguar[🍰] 9 points 5 hours ago
Me when I go out in public.
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[–]Since1785 6 points 4 hours ago
Currency based derivatives exist for pretty much all major currency
pairs, so it would only make sense that if BTC's primary goal was to
be a digital currency that these same derivatives markets also exist
for BTC.
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[–]Shaved_Wookie 1 point an hour ago
It's predictable, but no less detrimental to the reason BTC was
conceived - the derivatives sacrifice (and often undermine) the bulk
of the benefit of BTC, bringing it more in line with the currencies it
tried to improve upon.
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[–]StoneHammers 4 points 4 hours ago
This is the real answer just look at FTX they created probably
billions worth of paper bitcoins.
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[–]Daddio_87 37 points 11 hours ago
I agree 💯💯 💯
Once people start seeing Bitcoin as more than just an investment, I
think this will be when nearly everyone jumps on-board and starts
using it in one form or another.
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[–]suphater 15 points 8 hours ago
...use it for what?
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[–]itsthehappyman 50 points 8 hours ago
I could give you 100s of uses, here's one, My business receives money
from overseas, it has to go to a bank (which has nothing to do with
what we sell or create) that sets its own unfair exchange rate and
takes a fee for the exchange before it passes it on to our business,
It costs us thousands of £££ a year, and Bitcoin fixes this.
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[–][deleted] 8 hours ago*
[deleted]
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[–]Electronic1000 6 points 7 hours ago
This is why we need BTC
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[–]guy_fuckesredditor for 3 months 2 points 4 hours ago
I think one problem currently is Bitcoin has little stability and a
lot of businesses don't want something that could wildly fluctuate
from day to day
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[+]BitcoinTulipredditor for 1 week -6 points 7 hours ago
Bank has nothing to do with what you create but it enables you to get
money for the goods you sell. If you don't trust banks you can always
send your money in a postal envelope :)
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[–]4reddityo [score hidden] 49 minutes ago
“the answer”
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[–]StunningWar972 8 points 8 hours ago
As a medium of exchange for products and services maybe? (Like to buy
a house, car or hire an expensive B2B service idk)
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[–]tenthousandbottles 5 points 8 hours ago
I thought Bitcoin isn't for payments anymore, people here generally
say it's for storing value. I guess because the fees can get pretty
high
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[–]Daddio_87 2 points 8 hours ago
Daily transactions once more merchants are using it in their business structure.
Store of value for sure.
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[–]blackthrowawaynj 0 points 5 hours ago
world isnt using BTC as its intended use and its instead being
used for price speculation. So it tracks other traditional investments
pretty well.
I have a 100 Trillion dollar Zimbabwe note that's worth nothing. If
you are in the west with a semi solid monetary policy that has limited
inflation Bitcoin use case may not be apparent but if you are in one
of these hyperinflation countries even with the price drop owning
Bitcoin is a lifesaver and a means of preserving some of your wealth
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[–]Electronic1000 -1 points 7 hours ago
Try thinking for yourself
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[–]Sean4123 1 point 8 hours ago
Collateral for low interest loans, potential trade across for other
assets such as land and homes, and if needed, sold for fiat. It’s
mostly used as a hedge against inflation and a store of value. Of
course, the entire discussion on this thread is that the general
public hasn’t flipped to that sentiment yet. If bitcoin succeeds it’ll
likely see all the use cases above.
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[–]pocketmonstar 2 points 6 hours ago
How does one buy and use bitcoin if they want to “jump on board”?
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[–]Daddio_87 2 points 6 hours ago
I suggest you use the Bitcoin newcomers guide that is pinned to the main page.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wds6fs/bitcoin_newcomers_faq_please_read/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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[–]Modna 1 point 3 hours ago
Assuming the average person does start seeing Bitcoin as that, how
would that even work in the long run?
There is a finite amount of bitcoin possible. But there will always be
more people, more hours worked, more wages, more businesses collecting
payment.
At some point the supply ends and we only have what is left (let along
what has been lost forever in dead wallets).
How could an economy work like that?
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[–]Cold-Change5060 2 points 6 hours ago
Because majority of people that buy Bitcoin see it as an
investment vehicle (like a stock).
And they should. Most of it's price is speculation right now. If you
aren't buying it for this reason you are making a mistake because you
can't justify it's price without it.
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[–]CryptoBehemoth 1 point 2 hours ago
I'm one of those people who are transfering their wealth with no
intention of going back.
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[–]TDawgF 186 points 12 hours ago
The problem is that most people still value BTC in fiat and use it for
speculation to make more fiat.
Until this changes BTC will largely continue to behave like a speculative asset.
I personally think it will take a major financial crisis that causes
everyone to loose faith in fiat to significantly change this dynamic.
Which many people believe isn't so far away.
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[–]LadyAnarki 53 points 12 hours ago
Yes. And when people lose faith during a crisis in one fiat currency
they usually move to another one that is already established in their
mind (100 years of USD supremacy that we were dupped into). Bitcoin is
still not considered a "currency" in most people's minds. Evolution
takes time, changing your mindset takes time, becoming comfortable
with new tech takes time.
While time is linear on this plane of existence, we have to wait for
the majority to catch up. The only thing we can do is keep teaching,
explaining, and helping others to get to where we are mentally
(understanding & believing that Bitcoin is a superior form of money
based on its fundamentals) and physically (actually showing how to
buy, transfer, hold, and control their own bitcoins).
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[–]dalahnar_kohlyn 3 points 6 hours ago
To me, the bitcoin market is still very volatile. I mean look at how
far it can fall in one day
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[–]LadyAnarki 0 points 6 hours ago
Because it's attached to very volatile fiat currencies and legalcy
financial machinations, yes.
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[–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago
Lol well that’s not true…if it were, the “volatile fiat” would you
know, be more volatile than bitcoin if it were the true reason.
Bitcoins volatility comes from lower volume which means it’s easier to
move the price, has nothing to do with other fiat or any of that mess
smh
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[–]Wonderingbye 1 point 11 hours ago
Welcome LadyAnarki, it’s nice to have you here
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[–]LadyAnarki 5 points 11 hours ago
Haha thanks! Been here a lot more the past year.
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[–]Rich_Isle 13 points 10 hours ago
Yeah…the only problem is if the fiat system collapses that basically
means governments would collapse which means society collapses, which
means we live in chaos. The idea of a smooth transition and
realization of using BTC without massive upheaval is naive. If it does
happen, sure our Bitcoin will be worth a lot (same with gold and other
commodities) but you’re basically living in a post societal world that
is completely different from what we currently live in today.
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[–]EarthseedEquipment 5 points 8 hours ago
Good luck sending and receiving Bitcoin without electricity
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[–]itsthehappyman 4 points 8 hours ago
Or buying food, getting clean water, and heating your house.
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[–]LastLivingSouls 17 points 11 hours ago
Exactly.
"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" - Keynes
People need to understand what is going on here. All of the fiat
believers who thought BTC was just a tech stock are being flushed out
right now. While BTC was born out of a financial crisis similar to
whats going on now, it has never been tested as an established
alternative option in these conditions.
I'm excited right now. Whether its 6 months or a few years, I think
all of the speculative money is going to drain out which will drop the
fiat value, allowing more true believers to exchange more of their
dirty fiat, and the next stage will be true world wide acceptance.
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[–]Fosforus 11 points 11 hours ago
Sure, though I think every bear market flushes out some speculators,
and every bull market brings in some fresh ones.
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[–]suphater 3 points 8 hours ago
"This is good for crypto," they've said about every scam since mt gox.
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[–]Leading-Fail-7263 3 points 11 hours ago
Yes.
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[–]Wide-Bend-6558 2 points 10 hours ago
Will it ever change?
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[–]michael-streeter -1 points 10 hours ago
Good news: yes!
Bad news: 30 years to fully realise the dream.
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[–]itsthehappyman 1 point 8 hours ago
Everything changes, the world is nothing like it was 20 years ago.
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[–]Mindless-Range-7764 3 points 11 hours ago
People will not migrate to the new system until the old system fails.
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[–]TheAspiringFarmer 3 points 9 hours ago
and they are forced to do it, otherwise, forget it. we are creatures
of habit who despise change on any scale.
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[–]itsthehappyman 1 point 8 hours ago
Took most of the world 5 years to adapt to the internet and less time
to start using social media, change comes fast and swift.
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[–]TheAspiringFarmer 1 point 8 hours ago
well it was a shiny new thing with no alternative. unfortunately for
BTC and the other cryptos, fiat is a great alternative that just keeps
ticking. and it's not gonna stop any time soon.
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[–]itsthehappyman 2 points 8 hours ago
False, people doubted email and thought letters and fax machines would
live for ever
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[–]GuNDaL 1 point 8 hours ago
We already have entire countries moving to it. El Salvador was first
and other have followed. It's coming!
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[–]insanemetal187 2 points 8 hours ago
It took a crash to create bitcoin. It's going to take another crash
for people to see what it's for.
We're screaming the end is near and until people see something that
looks like an end, they will just think we're crazy.
Everyone gets the entry price they deserve.
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[–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago
Not sure that would be the case unless there is a crash that results
in a large amount of people being unable to retrieve money from their
bank, bc otherwise, bitcoin will only have shown that you can have
complete control of an asset that will lose 80% of its value in a bear
market
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[–]mihaialexmihaialexredditor for 3 months 1 point 10 hours ago
!lntip 1000
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[–]lntipbot 1 point 10 hours ago
Hi u/mihaialexmihaialex, thanks for tipping u/TDawgF 1000 satoshis!
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[–]Womec 1 point 5 hours ago
BTC went up as they printed money.
Worked as intended. Its a debasement hedge not an inflation.
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[–]CmpltlyPrvtPblcAccnt 1 point 5 hours ago
*lose
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[–]Since1785 1 point 4 hours ago
I don't know. People speculate on currencies all the time, so I think
there's more to why BTC hasn't been accepted as a unit of exchange and
digital currency. BTC behaves like a speculative asset because it is
designed as a speculative asset.
If the true goal with BTC was to have it be a unit of exchange then it
should have been designed with properties of a currency and not
properties of an asset.
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[–]jtmoney7423 52 points 11 hours ago
Because 99% of the people who participate in Bitcoin are like you.
They say "Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation," or "bitcoin was
supposed to save us from a financial crisis."
The truth about bitcoin is not this, but a truly decentralized
monetary system. If you are looking at the value of bitcoin and
comparing it to USD, you don't get it.
This is what most people do, they claim to "invest" in bitcoin for all
of these reasons (and more), but all of these reasons are to just
eventually sell the bitcoin and make fiat dollars. People need to
shift their mindset and narrative behind bitcoin
Go look at people fleeing Ukraine and Russia as VISA and Mastercard
freeze all of their credit cards and banks restricting assets so these
people can't leave the Country with their money. Those who have
Bitcoin, can flee with most of their personal wealth.
Go look at people in Venezuela who went from literally buying concrete
cinder blocks to retain value, to buying bitcoin so their savings
weren't inflated into oblivion.
Most countries and people are so financially privileged all we care
about is "when moon?"
TLDR; Until Bitcoin is looked at an actual Currency or Commodity, and
not some risk asset to balance out portfolios, it will act like every
other risk asset on the market.
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[–]HearMeSpeakAsIWill 11 points 9 hours ago
I doubt 99% see it as a hedge against inflation, or we wouldn't have
seen such a significant sell-off in 2022. The majority see it as a get
rich quick scheme, and YOLO in on leverage. Any macro headwinds and we
see people running for the exits. That tells me that a lot of people
who hold Bitcoin don't know why they hold it, other than "green candle
go brrrrr"
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[–]michael-streeter 10 points 10 hours ago
I donated BTC to the Ukraine government for de-mining at the start of
the invasion. Now they are not accepting BTC. Why do you think that
is?
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[–]Zaskoda 1 point 9 hours ago
"Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation,"
I still believe it is. The Fed is doing a lot right now to tighten the
money supply and restrain inflation. This is inadvertently tanking a
number of currencies.
"bitcoin was supposed to save us from a financial crisis."
I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say this.
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[–]GuNDaL 2 points 7 hours ago
Inadvertently?? What world do you live in?
Umm.. SATOSHI himself said that was why he created it?.
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[–]Zaskoda 2 points 7 hours ago
I believe you misunderstood my comment. The fed is tightening the
money supply. This is being done to "fight" inflation. The less
currency there is in circulation, the less inflation should be
occurring. The fed did not do this with the intention of tanking other
currencies, that was a byproduct, hence why I said "inadvertently."
However, as we approach the new year, we're also approaching another
liquidity crisis - which means there's not enough money in the system
to provide liquidity between banks. Thus, the fed will likely ramp up
QE or something to prevent the crisis. This would, however, cause more
inflation. We're basically in an impossible position where we either
will have crazy inflation or a horrible recession, perhaps a
depression. But even in the best case, inflation will continue to some
degree over the long term. Satoshi constrained the supply of Bitcoin
to hedge against inflationary fiat. There's nothing in the design
relevant to a recession. Like other global currencies, the current
fight against inflation will constrain the growth in value for Bitcoin
a bit.
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[–]GuNDaL 1 point 6 hours ago
Yes but you said it was never designed to fight a financial crisis.
But it was indeed designed to protect the common man and his
accumulated wealth from faulty governments that simply declare a
currency worthless and replace it with a new one. That scenario to
constitutes a financial crisis. Something we've never dealt with in
the North America, buy many other 3rd world countries have seen happen
on multiple occasions.
As for intent, and the first point .. I understood you but it's my
belief that while it may not be something they want openly known...
they have every intention of causing suffering for the middle and
lower classes. Debatable of course, but the more people are struggling
the less they influence they have to bring about changes that remove
those in power.
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[–]TheCommodore777 2 points 6 hours ago
I'd say it's more of a hedge against increase in the money supply. As
the supply of dollars increases, BTC increases in value in the long
run. Right now we're in a time of contraction of the money supply.
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[–]Zaskoda 1 point 5 hours ago
Yes, exactly. An increase in the money supply is generally correlated
with inflation.
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[–]sztormwariat 1 point 5 hours ago
Not correlated, it's literally inflation by definition
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[–]green9206 1 point 4 hours ago
But even after escaping their country their bitcoin value is still
based on usd. So if they had usd instead of bitcoin it would be the
same or actually better
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[–]TetraCGT 1 point 4 hours ago
!lntip 700
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[–]lntipbot 1 point 4 hours ago
Hi u/TetraCGT, thanks for tipping u/jtmoney7423 700 satoshis!
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[–]Late-Quarter-5719 1 point an hour ago
Well said this is so true.
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[–]choochoomthfka 23 points 12 hours ago
As long as the traditional financial market isn't bottoming,
traditional investors need to unload their BTC holdings to cover other
losses. My 2ct
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[–]TBo74 3 points 2 hours ago
Ummm bitcoin started tanking long before traditional markets began
tanking, that’s bc it’s a risk on asset. People get out of bitcoin to
avoid the much greater losses and actually go into safer investments
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[–]downtownjj 27 points 12 hours ago
the path is not a straight one.
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[–]lordrenovatio 2 points an hour ago
A true statement. Peoples time horizones as an "inflation hedge" are
too short. Need a multi year hold to experience the fun that is
inflation when it hits BTC. Watch what happens to the BTC price when
the central money printer (inflation) starts up again. Right now
everything is going down.
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[–]TheSilverCalf 0 points 8 hours ago
I bet you are a lot of fun at parties… 😘
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[–]leeosanches 12 points 11 hours ago
Change is like falling asleep... slowly and then all at once.
It was the same with the Internet, smartphones, social media etc..
Can't wait for the next few years!!
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[–]Haywood-Jablomei 8 points 11 hours ago
If FTX and Binance actually allocated funds received into Bitcoin as
intended the price of Bitcoin would be much higher imo. Having a
digital iou is dumber than fiat. Buy and self custody.
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[–]LiveDirtyEatClean 8 points 11 hours ago
The western world isnt using BTC as its intended use and its instead
being used for price speculation. So it tracks other traditional
investments pretty well.
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[–]TrymWS 8 points 10 hours ago
It's being tested hard.
It only needs to survive.
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[–]roliasedor 4 points 9 hours ago
Tropicthunder.png
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[–]cipher-zer0 7 points 9 hours ago
Spoiler: HUMANS (are not rational beings)
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[–]TheSilverCalf 2 points 8 hours ago
I rest my wealth in your hands.
Rest yours in mine.
A more factual statement has never been said.
Much love.
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[–]zlogic 46 points 12 hours ago
Don't underestimate how long people who can print infinite money can
delay the inevitable.
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[–]gvictor808 7 points 12 hours ago
Yup. Deficit spending and impossible liabilities can have only one
outcome. When not If.
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[–]mcnello 1 point 12 hours ago
This is a non-answer
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[–]vt75rredditor for a day 3 points 11 hours ago
You certainly don't like it and we know you don't like bitcoin and
spend a lot of time in a sub whose subject you don't like.
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[–]zlogic 2 points 12 hours ago
You're a non-answer
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[–]TheSilverCalf 2 points 8 hours ago
Fucking prove that shit, u/zlogic
Money where you put your mouth… or something.
(How to prove someone is a non-answer, I’m not certain how to gauge
your answer if/when it arrives)
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[–]mercme2023 7 points 11 hours ago
Because Bitcoin is still 100% dependent on fiat. It still doesn’t stand alone.
It’s not recognized as a currency yet, just an investment directly
tied to fiat and the markets. 🤷♂️
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[–]GuNDaL 2 points 7 hours ago
I'm the west.. you are correct.
In 3rd world countries with openly/blatant corrupt govs (ours are just
hide it better) it is a gamechanger.
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[–]etmetm 6 points 10 hours ago
There's a lot of information asymmetry in the market - people do not
fully realize the purpose of Bitcoin's existence as an exit vavle from
the debt fiat monetary system.
The price of BTC in USD has gone up from ~4k in March 2020 to ~69k in
November 2021 precisely as a function of massive inflation in the USD
quantity of money and near zero interest rates as means of cheaply
getting access to this new money.
There has been exaggeration on the way up just the same as there is or
will be exaggeration on bottoming out USD price wise.
The price is back to end of 2020 levels because central banks around
the world, foremost the FED, are tightening interest rates, thereby
decreasing debt and reducing the amount of money in circulation. They
will not manage to decrease it back down to pre-COVID levels of early
2020 though without sending the economy into a deflationary collapse.
All this while Bitcoin is still inflating into existence at the same
fixed rate set during the last halving in May 2020.
BTC will be up again on demand increasing both from education closing
the information asymmetry and from central banks needing to pivot from
raising interest rates and/or having to inject money into the system
in other ways (for example through yield curve control on govt bonds)
and from supply tightening on the BTC side on the next halving in
2024...
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[–]ThisIsKoo 3 points 7 hours ago
The #BitBang
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[–]SpitinMYm0uth 6 points 9 hours ago
People are treating bitcoin like a stock
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[–]CornerEntire9163 5 points 10 hours ago
Delusional. It is the early stages. Where we want X, but we can't wait
to Y to happen so X becomes real. Now, just make simple math. Do you
know how many wallets are out there? How many of them have the most of
btc? When was the latest transaction? Then bear this and accept it!
If you trust in, spread the word, invest, and wait for the years to come.
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[–]Brucifer99 21 points 13 hours ago
Same reason the internet took so long to change the game.
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[–]DaVirus 5 points 11 hours ago
Also because people sold to shield themselves against exactly what is
happening. Dipping during the hard time is normal since no one is
using it directly. It's being sold for fiat by people that were ready.
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[–]mredda 2 points 11 hours ago
How long did it take?
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[–]atomic_cattleprod 1 point 8 hours ago
Not anywhere close to 17 years.
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[–]mredda 2 points 6 hours ago
Did it take more?
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[–]atomic_cattleprod 1 point 4 hours ago
No.
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[–]ColdFreeezer 15 points 12 hours ago
Because Bitcoin is an investment and always has been. One day it might
be another form of money but let’s be real no one here uses Bitcoin
for anything.
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[–]amtib00 6 points 10 hours ago
That's not rrue. At a minimum I use btc on fountain value for value
podcasting app. I'd also pay for drinks or a meal with btc. As options
present themselves I will. With solutions like Breeze POS being
developed that might not be far off
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[–]justanta 2 points 6 hours ago
So you're saying you'd like to use bitcoin, but after THIRTEEN YEARS
of existence there's still hardly anything you can spend it on?
Does that not make you think?
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[–]TBo74 1 point 2 hours ago
That’s completely true…doesn’t matter how a small Amount of people use
it or see it as, it’s what the majority view it or see it as. And the
majority of people do not use it for monetary purposes or purchases
nor does anywhere close to even 1/4 of retailers accept is as a form
of payment.
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[–]Svoboda1 1 point 3 hours ago
Until the tax laws change, this is me. I’m not tracking TX and going
through that headache at tax time.
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[–]bsjohnston 8 points 11 hours ago
BTC is entirely a speculative asset. Just like gold, it doesn't do
anything for someone who is holding it. It is going to decline as long
as people are getting squeezed.
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[–]Mediocre_Piccolo8542 4 points 10 hours ago
Because most people don't use it as as intended, to transfer value, as
P2P e-cash. They do simple buy and hold it, which by definition means
they are speculating. Add some typical traders and you get the entire
picture of what moves price of BTC = speculation and traders which are
correlated with classical markets.
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[–]ConclusionMaleficent 3 points 10 hours ago
They treat it as a tech stock, so currently it does NOT serve as a
hedge against inflation at this time. I bought 2 BTC as an inflation
hedge last year. Huge mistake as my 6 figure inflation hedge turned
into 5 figures. I would have been farther ahead holding cash
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[–]llCharisma 8 points 12 hours ago
Bitcoins upside was severely muted do to the paper bitcoin FTX was
selling. The fact is the space got hit with constant scams and things
take time to play out.
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[–]JJCTHE1 2 points 11 hours ago
I agree w you here however we are speculating. I can’t wait till
someone actually applies the analytics to this and gets us some real
numbers, it’s probably in the works now. I truly believe that will
move the market based on those results.
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[–]jwmoz 9 points 11 hours ago
The inflation hedge narrative is dead.
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[–]suphater 3 points 8 hours ago
That's good for bitcoin!
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[–]FIAT_IS_TRASH 4 points 10 hours ago
Your opinion is transitory
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[–]Free_Idea_ 6 points 12 hours ago
There are still a lot of domino's left to fall. Binance is looking
suspect, a lot of non regulated crypto exchanges are insolvent. With
the price so low and mining difficulty so high, big miners are playing
a deadly game of chicken with bankruptcy.
I think we have to get through another couple of FTX like implosions
before we can say we are clear for take off out of this bear market.
Bitcoin/related crypto markets still need some more cleansing.
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[–]HH0115 3 points 10 hours ago
I thought Mt. Gox was the last one. Boy was I wrong 😂. I didn’t
believe in a mass psychosis event either but now I get it, most people
are already in one.
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[–]bathroomworld 3 points 11 hours ago
It's a maturity process. At first it wasn't correlated to anything,
now it's correlated to tech sector, and eventually it'll be correlated
to safe haven assets
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[–]DatBuridansAss 3 points 10 hours ago
Bitcoin, for whatever reason, is boring until it isn't. It will move
sideways for months, or break your heart with fake out bull runs over
and over again, before adding a 0 and never letting go again. It was
$1 then a few years later it was $10, then a few years later it was
$100, then $1000, then $10,000. I expect it to dick around this range
for another few years before it adds another 0. Then another.
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[–]trimbandit 1 point 7 hours ago
The fact that it is at the a same price as it was 5 years ago does not
agree with your statement. Until bitcoin can show a shred of
stability, it will just a risky speculation
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[–]DatBuridansAss 1 point 6 hours ago
Floor vs ceiling. Pretty basic. I know people who bought in during
peak mania of 2017 might feel like Bitcoin has stalled out, but anyone
who was here a cycle or more earlier recognizes the pattern. Even the
most cynical bears don't think we're going back to $400 (the price
when I started buying).
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[–]trimbandit 1 point 5 hours ago
The only thing that is relevant is the the price now, not some high
that it did not sustain. It could have gone to 250k, but the price is
&16500 now and that is what it is worth. I got in before the 2017
highs, so I am still up so I don't care too much, but your theory that
every few years it will add another zero is inaccurate. The easy 10x
gain days are behind us.
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[–]TheAspiringFarmer 3 points 9 hours ago
it's been mentioned but the truth is...so long as the majority see BTC
= USD$ as the value metric, nothing will change. most people consider
and utilize BTC purely and strictly as an investment vehicle to make
more fiat.
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[–]lwc-wtang12 3 points 9 hours ago*
Because 99% of people simply do not get the point of bitcoin. Most of
the people in r/cryptocurrency don't get the point of bitcoin. If they
did they wouldn't, under any circumstances, be investing in ANY of the
newer layer 1 chains because they are all (almost) permissioned
blockchains. In other words, they are what bitcoin sought to destroy
-- a centralized system.
And most investors just view it as a tech bet. They don't get supply
and demand economics, scarcity, disinflation, etc.
But it isn't. Instead, it's just following along with the Nasdaq and
QQQ because people think it's just a tech play when in reality, it is
significantly more nuanced and deep than that. ve easing is?
Blockchain, if it ever manages to scale while remaining decentralized,
will become just as ubiquitous as smartphones and the internet, but
the problem is that these things are too abstract and intangible for
people to understand.
Phones/the internet didn't become mainstream because they could
protect the value of the users' money. They went mainstream because
they're convenient. And most people don't think -"gee if I make this
investment now my life will be more easy and more convenient in 10
years." They think in the now. Most people that are buying bitcoin now
are doing so to get rich NOW, not later. Bitcoin and crypto do not
make anyone's life easier right now. It's not more convenient than a
debit card and a bank account. Only in specific situations like
remittance payments or a frozen bank account is it more convenient.
But you're exactly right. Bitcoin should be absolutely pumping in the
current state of the world. It's fundamentally designed to protect
against inflation, human error, greed, conflicts of interest,
censorship, etc.
But it isn't. Instead, it's just following along with the Nasdaq and
QQQ because people think it's just a tech play when in reality, it is
significantly more nuanced and deep than that. So, put simply, bitcoin
isn't up right now because of a lack of understanding and the greed
and lack of patience all humans have. Time will tell
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[–]Doughboy3531 3 points 6 hours ago
The market can remain irrational longer than one can stay solvent or
something like that 🤷♂️
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[–]The_Realist01 3 points 3 hours ago
“Risk asset” - Macro says risk off.
Until capital moves back to the people (doubtful), btc as a savings
mechanism for people won’t outweigh the capital allocation from
current day capital allocators.
It’ll happen the next decade. Just have to outlast any competition.
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[–]R33sh0 2 points 11 hours ago
At this point we have all been proven to not know much of anything but
the fact that the whole space is unpredictable.
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[–]Rhyndir 2 points 11 hours ago
Because BTC is a market like anything else. Youre talking about human
emotion. Fear. Greed.
Markets have been moving the same way for hundreds of years, BTC is no
different.
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[–]FIAT_IS_TRASH 2 points 10 hours ago
Feds are still tightening monetary policy. There is a lot of debt out
there in all forms: Government, Consumer(credit card and mortgage) and
Corporate. The interest on that debt is substantial relative to
existing Money supply. When the Fed is tightening money supply it puts
the squeeze on debtors(like a game of musical chairs) there is
literally not enough money for everyone to make their nut each month.
So many people are forced to sell their stuff in order to make debt
payments. Bitcoin price hit by this similar to QQQ owners. When the
Fed can't politically get away with tightening any more and (when/if)
they are forced to re-open the monetary floodgates...Bitcoin will do
better than most.
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[–]liveduhlife 2 points 10 hours ago
Most common people still have faith in fiat. Proof is that when
markets crashed, the DXY shot up and has stayed strong.
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[–]vinsane38 2 points 10 hours ago
Fear
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[–]michael-streeter 2 points 10 hours ago
It's too small at the moment (market cap). The last I heard its value
strongly correlates with US tech stocks and is classed as a "risk off
asset" meaning increased risk (of what?) means many traders will sell
and the price will fall. Keep stacking and when there's a bull run
that will be a trailing indicator the recession is over. I could be
wrong though! 😜
It will behave differently in the long term and go up when people are
looking for somewhere to keep their fiat that's not gold or real
estate.
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[–]TBo74 0 points 2 hours ago
Risk on…gold and other investments are “risk off” which means less
volatile but much lower rate of return
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[–]Ok_Relationship_9557 2 points 9 hours ago
If Bitcoin reacts to liquidity then it's acting just as one would expect.
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[–]JuryNo90redditor for a day 2 points 9 hours ago
There is more to fiat than some (majority) of bitcoiners often get.
Fiat has come a long way and is highly controlled. Bitcoin has and
will always be a threat to fiat. That's why i have always expected
serious damages to the system from the other side. Fiat runners, (the
big guns of the society) will commit suicide before witnessing the
kind of success most bitcoiners expect. Thus, expect more damages to
come. This crisis is just one of such episodes loading. expect more
attacks (and i dare to say, well calculated attacks) on BTC and its
siblings. Bitcoin is synonymous to economic freedom/liberation for
all. Who wants that? Definitely, those who think there should be such
freedom. Unfortunately, sorry! That's not how this (earth business )
is meant to operate. Fiat is a great tool of stabilizing society. It
gives power to a selected few to govern and regulate. That's why
Bitcoin must not exist. If you are like me, see no randomness in
sensitive stuffs like this. It's all calculated to say the least.
Unless bitcoiners rise above these clouds and see things for what they
truly are, I'm afraid even the next gen will still be having tis sort
of conversations. The introduction of BTC meant war against the New
York barons and its closest associates. It was war and has been
carefully watched as strategies to take it down were being developed.
Interestingly, Centralization, the most dreaded demon that Bitcoin's
creators thought they had conquered was easily resurrected. It is this
demon that's being use against the efforts of Nakamoto (s).
Centralization is dangerous. And unless it is thoroughly regulated,
disaster is always it's other name. And of course, we know what
regulations mean! Bottom line, bitcoin either function as fiat and
bend the knee to the Dollar, Euro, Pound, or dies. Easy as that!
Whatever bitcoiners are experiencing today, it was eminent and anyone
who bothered understanding the real structure of society would have
easily spotted this scenario. Wise up!
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[–]OrionMessier 2 points 9 hours ago
We're in the middle of crypto winter. No need to even look at the
price until 2024 or 2025.
I'm not saying don't look, but when you do, get a blanket, throw
another log on the fire, and watch the snow fall.
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[–]WayLayFries 2 points 9 hours ago
Money and power against an accountable ledger are strong. I can’t imagine why.
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[–]itsthehappyman 2 points 8 hours ago
We are still early
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[–]StugDrazil 2 points 8 hours ago
BTC is the same as fiat, it’s something from nothing and
fractionalized, much like the banking industry that this sub seems to
hate so much.
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[–]tbjfi 2 points 8 hours ago
Check back in 50 years and compare it to the dollar
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[–]mr-fybxoxo 2 points 8 hours ago
10-20 years from now everyone will wish they’d just put $1,000 into
BTC. It’s part of it, I remember Apple stock around 2009, I was too
young to have any money but I thought this company will be a good one…
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[–]mr-fybxoxo 2 points 8 hours ago
I’m holding 20+ years, by then I’ll be nicely retired.
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[–]BrotherAmazing 2 points 7 hours ago
It’s “purpose”? Speak for yourself!
I use the Bitcoin payment network to perform secure peer-to-peer
transactions that require no trusted third party intermediary with
final settlement occurring faster than ACH or Visa that are
censor-resistant. For me, that is the purpose of Bitcoin and it has
been operating perfectly without any problems for many many years now.
I could give a shit if BTC price in USD changes day-to-day or
month-to-month as long as there is no incredible slippage from the
time I send until final settlement.
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[–]TBo74 0 points 2 hours ago
So what then after the settlement? You think businesses can hold and
risk the asset falling much lower than the goods they sold? Bitcoin
has also been seized and banned so it’s far from censor resistant
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[–]BrotherAmazing 1 point 1 hour ago
I fail to understand your first question. I don’t give a shit what
someone does with my cash after I pay them in cash, I don’t give a
shit what they do with my Bitcoin after it’s no longer mine and I paid
for a product or service with it. Done as far as I al concerned. If
they want to convert it to cash, I could care less. The Bitcoin
payment network did its job and worked to settle the transaction.
No, Bitcoin is not able to be censored. You clearly don’t have a clue
what you are talking about from any kind of firsthand experience
because if you have a valid wallet address and you sign a transaction
to send to that address, it doesn’t get denied and goes through. No
government or bank can stop it from going through. You’re reading 2nd
and 3rd hand popular media and blog accounts of events that occurred
written by people who don’t understand how Bitcoin works.
As far as Bitcoin being “seized”, first off that is not what we are
talking about as censor resistant. We are talking about how a bank or
Visa can declined my transactions, even lawful transactions. Bitcoin
does not “decline” my transactions ever.
Second, with respect to someone “seizing” Bitcoin, that is nearly
impossible to do unless the full force of the government is brought
upon you with search warrants and you are committing some sort of
financial crime tied to the Bitcoin ownership. You would need to not
only get my h/w wallet, but also get into at least one (of not more!)
of my safe deposit boxes, and good luck with all this without a
warrant and not being the government.
Third, when you read stories of the government seizing BTC, it’s never
ever what the headlines make it sound like. Every single case I have
followed up on where they “seize” BTC goes like this: Warrant is
issued and there is a crime tied to the BTC like ransomeware attack.
Government ends up finding unencrypted seed words with passphrase
stored on a computer or stored on paper at scene of h/w wallet in same
location; i.e., dumb criminals doing dumb things.
It’s kind of like you’re arguing AES-256 encryption is weak because it
has been broken and governments could ban it. Well, no. It hasn’t been
“broken”, but if the keys/passphrase is left out written on paper, yes
I can access the encrypted info, duh. And governments can ban anything
in theory, so that’s not a good argument. Sticking with the encryption
argument, governments tried to ban encryption and they can. They can
do whatever they want—they can ban having more than 1 child, ban
certain thoughts, ban the internet. But that is not an argument at all
for why the Bitcoin payment network isn’t useful to someone using it,
especially in a non-shithole country that doesn’t ban it!
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[–]StackOwOFlow 2 points 6 hours ago
But when I see the stock market crashing I always have the hope
that BTC moves independently since it’s a whole different ball game
The stock market hasn't really crashed yet. It has only deleveraged
tech stocks from crazy ATHs. The S&P is still hovering around 3800, we
ain't seen nothing yet.
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[–]Cymballism 2 points 5 hours ago
Because some people would like you to not believe in Bitcoin.
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[–]slokiebear 2 points 5 hours ago
Lots of "synthetic" bitcoin in the market imo. Price is being
manipulated just like any other asset at this point. If 70+% of
bitcoin are currently in cold storage and off of exchanges it is
confusing that the prices steadily keeps going down.
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[–]Conflagrate247 2 points 5 hours ago
Almost like crypto is manipulated like everything else
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[–]Astrofide 2 points 4 hours ago
BTC is red? Pretty sure mine is orange.
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[–]jt7855 2 points 3 hours ago
There was a bubble in the price of BTC that was fueled by low interest
rates and cheap LEVERAGE created by the Fed and other central banks.
The bubble has deflated in BTC. The bubble is deflating in the stock
market. The gov also changed the “mark to market” accounting after the
2008 crisis and so stock prices unwind more slowly now. How much the
“plunge protection team” is involved with the slow movement downward
in stocks is unknown. They don’t answer to anyone. BTC doesn’t have
that and tends to be disliked by certain governments. So here we are.
Individual investors buy and hodl. Knowing it is worth the time and
investment.
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[–]Solottica 2 points 2 hours ago
Because only 2% of people truly understand bitcoin, the rest are speculators.
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[–]Bitcoin_Maximalistredditor for 6 weeks 2 points 11 hours ago
you are so lucky to stack sats that cheap
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[–]boiledpangolin 1 point 12 hours ago
It's USD vs everything atm. FED pivot will lead to the great decoupling.
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[–]TheNeoOne001 1 point 11 hours ago
Because a lot of people arent actualy in for BITCOIN, they just want a
quick buck, but for us that can actually see the bigger picture this
price is just momental. See you in a decade or 2. Until then, Good
luck and have fun!
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[–]kingofthejaffacakes 1 point 10 hours ago
Each bottom is higher than the previous.
Each bottom tells us the quantity of money that believes in bitcoin
for more than just speculation.
Ignore the highs, they are from the fomo crowd.
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[–]JanPB 1 point 8 hours ago
Because due to the lack of clear legal status (regulation) practically
all Big Money institutions stay away from BTC, both in the US and
abroad. They simply cannot do it until the SEC clears up the path.
So today it's mostly retail which means low volume (relatively
speaking wrt what it should be) and acting on whims. Both are
reflected in the price chart.
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[–]Shortalamuhl 1 point 5 hours ago
Because. It. Has. No. Utility.
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[–]ebk_eraredditor for 7 weeks -3 points 12 hours ago
1 BTC = 1 BTC is the right answer.
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[–]TurkeyLuver 9 points 12 hours ago
Correct but meaningless
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[–]ReignOfKaos 2 points 10 hours ago
Which is great if the only thing you care about is exchanging bitcoin
for bitcoin
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[–]sc2bigjoe 1 point 11 hours ago
1 BTC UTXO != 1 BTC UTXO
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[–]SmoothGoing -2 points 13 hours ago
Did you just assume my pronouns bitcoin's purpose?
What if that was to go from zero to $5000? Then it exceeded
expectations with flying colors.
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[–]mcnello -1 points 12 hours ago
In reality, you bought BTC at $69k and are HODL'ing
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[–]vt75rredditor for a day 1 point 11 hours ago*
You're trying too hard to emphasize a down market. Tamper it a bit or
else people will see you're trying to suppress sentiment. They'll just
point to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
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[–]New-Post-7586 0 points 11 hours ago
Zoom out.
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[–]wee_d 0 points 10 hours ago
It’s original purpose was to be a peer to peer electronic cash system.
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[–]InternetGuy_962redditor for 6 days 0 points 7 hours ago
Because markets have cycles, and we’re currently in a bear.
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[–]Dplayerx 0 points 7 hours ago
I’m a big crypto believer. Been using crypto for payment since 2020
and I’m the only one I know doing it. That’s the problem
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[–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago
You never going outside so you don't know anybody is a you problem.
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[–]Dplayerx 1 point 6 hours ago
Cries in my mansion alone
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[–]aaronVRN -1 points 8 hours ago
It’s red cause it’s down
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[–]InitialAdvertising98 -1 points 3 hours ago
M Nv lol kyjyjj Iulm C c
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[+]NargazoidThings -15 points 12 hours ago
btc is fake, buy something with real world value like silver and gold
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[–]Thanis_in_Eve 4 points 12 hours ago
☝️ Came to Bitcoin subreddit to push....shiny rocks... 😭🤣
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[–]spicywizard420 3 points 11 hours ago
They’d have better luck pushing alts here lolol
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[–]TomSurman 1 point 12 hours ago
Well, that's me convinced.
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[–]gevorgemin 1 point 9 hours ago
Yeah, buy tulips.
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[–]gvictor808 1 point 12 hours ago
Market
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[–]actum_tempus 1 point 11 hours ago
i wonder when the day comes just one wealthy mug deceides to buy all
the btc there is and the price goes moom
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[–]amtib00 2 points 10 hours ago
Wealthy people are sometimes smart and the ones that see value in
bitcoin certainly are. They won't come in to the market that way. The
intent will be buying as much as they can for as little fiat as they
can. They know if they buy too much it spikes the price. They also
know fud suppresses the price.
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[–]actum_tempus 1 point 9 hours ago
wall street smart
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[–]OfWhomIAmChief 1 point 11 hours ago
Because its still speculative, the world has yet to agree on what 1
BTC is worth.
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[–]No-Marzipan-2423 1 point 10 hours ago
So the run up to 67k was bitcoin responding almost instantly to
increasing inflation - the problem is that the rest of the economy
measures inflation with lagging indicators and now this bear market
was almost entirely created by the measures they have used to try and
combat inflation in 2022.
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[–]norwegianmorningw00d 1 point 10 hours ago
Human psychology is doing its thing right now. Many people are
de-risking from speculative equities.
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[–]999999999989 1 point 10 hours ago
"wallstreet" algorithms infected BTC markets and they have it under
control for now.
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[–]RlzJohnnyM 1 point 10 hours ago
If you are using this as a store of value, Why do you care? Stack sats
and Come back in 10 years
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[–]robotsdev 1 point 10 hours ago
Have exchange.
Let people trade Bitcoin.
Realize that 80% of Bitcoin traded never leaves.
Sell Bitcoin to people and just add some numbers in their account.
Now people have bought 1000 BTC, and exchange only has 100 BTC.
If a whale wants their Bitcoin I tell them to wait and scale back a bit.
"Get hacked".
???
Profit!
This is why everyone needs to withdraw their BTC into their own
wallets as soon as they buy it.
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[–]samsquantchtpb1 1 point 10 hours ago
Still early days. Risk asset. Risk off. And people are idiots and
don't accept change fast enough.
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[–]cr0n_dist0rti0n 1 point 10 hours ago
Despite all the theories, beliefs and desires, BTC functionally acts
as a commodity. Digital scarcity with value. I doubt that’s going to
change for the foreseeable future of ever. To be a functional currency
you need price stability. Hence why central banks attempt to peg
inflation at 2%. Since most people who buy BTC are looking it as an
investment with the expectation of return relative to fiat BTC will
not function as a currency with price stability. And would you want
that anyway. To say peg deflation at 2% a year? Or manipulate it’s
value in any way? You probably want a healthy ROI. But a business can
run on a speculative “currency”. If I sell a loaf of bread I need to
know my cost inputs and have a reasonable expectation of profit in
relation to those cost inputs. I cannot have the risk of massive
speculative swings in my base currency. If I made a widget in Nov.
2021 with Bitcoin my cost inputs would have increased massively and
all of them would be selling at a loss or I’d have to sit on my
widgets in the hope of a price shift.
In other words I would not expect BTC for function massively outside
the norms of speculative assets.
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[–]Bigmoh-08 1 point 10 hours ago
Past market trend shouldn’t be used to predict future price. With BTC
having absolute scarcity it’s just a matter of time until people
realise it’s true value.
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[–]Nohoula 1 point 10 hours ago
It will gradually happen over time. Lower transaction fees through
using bitcoin will be the Trojan Horse.
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[–]DPXD93 1 point 10 hours ago
Keep buying we need more buys and more bitcoin mining
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[–]koonface2787 1 point 10 hours ago
There really isnt any reason for it to behave any which way. As btc is
one of the only markets in which has the least amount of manipulation
( derivatives markets put downward pressure enabled by custodial
platfroms ie binance bitmex) with btcs ability for self custody which
no other assets really have we're able to move the market. Everyone
just needs to custody their UTXOs and transact P2P. When we do so
price reflects that.
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[–]cockusino 1 point 10 hours ago
Look at btc chart divided by m2/m3 money supply and there is your answear
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[–]SaggeeDot 1 point 10 hours ago
If you’re still converting your BTC value against any fiat, you’re not
deep enough down the rabbit hole
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[–]ch-dev 1 point 10 hours ago
Most people in crypto see it as an investment / get rich quick
opportunity and not as a utility. I know plenty of folks who have
Bitcoin but not a single one who have used it to purchase any goods or
services.
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[–]Signal-Judgment 1 point 9 hours ago
Why would they? It's a huge pain in the ass to use for purchasing
goods and services compared to USD.
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[–]edL222 1 point 10 hours ago
It’s being manipulated by financial institutions. They don’t want hard
assets like this to show good returns in economic downturn even though
it’s actually the case. They’ve accumulated enough to put downward
pressure for a long time . One of them will try to 51% bitcoin soon
and take it down to pave the way for cbdc
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[–]ProfessorPurrrrfect 1 point 10 hours ago
95% of people in crypto have no idea what it does or what it’s purpose
it. They don’t even know you can take it off exchanges
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[–]Introvert-Beaverredditor for 2 weeks 1 point 9 hours ago*
As long as there are fractional reserve banking and a fiat monetary
system in place, there will always be actors in the financial markets
who are willing to short-sell BTC, funded by a low-interest rate
credit from a central bank.
The fewer central banks there are, the more accurate the BTC price will be.
Have patience, we are still early.
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[–]Educational-Guide-63 1 point 9 hours ago
Market rigged
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[–]CryptoCrackLord 1 point 9 hours ago
Bitcoin is worth $16,000 per coin. People should really keep things in
perspective.
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[–]AlwaysReady4444 1 point 9 hours ago
People really don’t understand markets
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[–]Grand-Marsupial-5291 1 point 9 hours ago
Bitcoin it red because banks and rich cunts bought the majority
control in bitcoin so they could slowly drop the price and fuck as
many people as they possibly could over before next leg.
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[–]Responsible_Falcon_7 1 point 9 hours ago
The major problem is centralized exchanges are not buying BTC on lit
markets until you move to Dex or personal wallet
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[–]ferociousdonkey 1 point 9 hours ago
its*
Yes, I'm that guy
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[–]MilkMySpermCannon 1 point 8 hours ago
Btc has become a tech stock on steroids. It will follow the world
market for the most part
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[–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago
Nope.
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[–]Guilty-bnb 1 point 8 hours ago
We the ppl can make BTC grow or shrink and that is always going to be
the case , you listen to the supposed to be “experts” and you can see
95% of them still have no clue on if BTC is moving up or down , they
all tell you things like it went down because of hike on interest, or
because of inflation when it actually is anti inflation , and they all
tell you after the action never before, so what really drives BTC up
or down ? Bears and bulls , nothing else but who creates bulls and
bears , driven by sentiment we the ppl can create huge avalanches of
either unfortunately things are different now compare to a few years
ago when smart money investors and most whales were skeptical about
Crypto , then the common crowd created the bull or bear avalanches
driven by pure sentiment, pushing Crypto to ATHs and ATLs , now
institutions and whales are at the drivers seat and the common
investor must learn certain investing tactics for its own protection,
institutions and whales do not chase price but wait for price to come
to them and once they sincronice they can benefit from a sideways
market unlike most of the rest , smart money could be the reason the
market is bearish and not so much inflation, interest hikes nor any
war going on, what was the purpose of BTC do we remember it was
created to be crisis proof in certain way ? and to be anti inflation ?
Well.
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[–]kosmoskolio 1 point 8 hours ago
I’m into software development my whole career (something like 13
years). There’s one thing I can tell you from experience:
what a product is intended for is not what it’s used for.
users decide what to do with given piece of software
You can do a lot to push users in way way or another but in the end of
the day it’s their choice. Bitcoin might have been designed as a
day-to-day money or as an independent store of value. But if people
decide to only gamble with it than that’s what it is.
So I’m calling you to question your opinion on what is Bitcoin for and
how it should be used.
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[–]Postman_Rings_Thrice 1 point 8 hours ago
There will have to be a complete paradigm sea change in
value-for-value acceptance on a global scale. There will inevitably be
a "shot heard 'round the world", and until that happens, BTC will be
bought, sold, and manipulated like a commodity. I hold some and will
likely buy more as I am able, but my main holdings are U.S. and
Western European stocks, precious metals, and some U.S. real estate.
My stocks are mostly conventional energy (oil), and pharma. My metals
are 40/40/20 Au/Pt/Ag. My RE is rental income condos. Good wishes to
all in 2023!
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[–]Miqag 1 point 8 hours ago
Bitcoin was not born as a result of the financial crisis. The timing
was purely coincidence. Digital currency rooted in cryptography had
been in the works for decades. Satoshi’s breakthrough occurred when it
did and was disconnected from the financial crisis of 2008.
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[–]StateNo6103 1 point 8 hours ago
It will become more apparent that it's the best money when we have to
continually print our way out of calamity. The next QEs coming will
DWARF what happened in 2020.
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[–]FUS-RO-DONT 1 point 8 hours ago
Highly liquid with a 24/7 market. More people need dollars in the short term.
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[–]mankycrack 1 point 8 hours ago
Because it's not being used as a currency it's still an asset to everyone.
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[–]birdman332 1 point 8 hours ago
Because you and other don't understand Bitcoin. It was made to be
global, censorship resistant, peer to peer momey outside the control
of a central authority. Last time, and every time, I've check, Bitcoin
still roduces blocks roughly every ten minutes which releases a set
amount of new supply into the network while securing past
transactions. It is usable anywhere with internet access and you don't
need any permissions to use it.
So it's doing exactly what it was designed for. The USD price is
irrelevant if you understand Bitcoin.
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[–]TheOneTruePavil 1 point 8 hours ago
Because most folks that buy and leave it on exchanges don't realize
that they're buying a derivative product called a Contract for
Difference. It only becomes real once you remove it from the exchange.
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[–]aceasarsalad 1 point 8 hours ago
I think it's because the big investors of BTC are the same folks that
own many stocks. Their buying and selling behaviour is still in that
old framework
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[–]help-me-retire-early 1 point 8 hours ago
Capitulation by dude
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[–]Constant-Ad9398 1 point 8 hours ago
If a financial collapse were to happend the price of bitcoin wont
matther, the true value lies in it's properties as a medium of
exchange
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[–]DrShaqra 1 point 7 hours ago
Because people don’t trust it.
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[–]BitcoinMaxiBurgerredditor for 6 days 1 point 7 hours ago
Because Tax Authorities treat it as an invesment. If ever Tax
Authorities treat disposal of BTC as a non-CGT event, I would be
buying and spending BTC like i do with money.
In my country, BTC is only treated as personal use when you use it
immediately. but i dont use Fiat immediately.
If i bought BTC and let it sit on my wallet and i spent it a month
later ( at that time it appreciated by 5%), now its a CGT event.
I am hoping legislation will change once more of the population gets into BTC.
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[–]kittywrastler 1 point 7 hours ago*
If the Fed gets to 2% the economy will get destroyed, debt to GDP is like 400%.
With the 31t debt every 1% rate hike will be 310 billion. 10% of tax revenue.
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[–]Gman76_2 1 point 7 hours ago
Supply and demand
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[–]qlz19 1 point 7 hours ago
Just be patient and don’t put in what you can’t afford to lose. DCA
and HODL are cliche for a reason…
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[–]amalvarez 1 point 6 hours ago
It's not red. It's still yellow-orange.
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[–]lunaticz0r 1 point 6 hours ago
IMO purpose for bitcoin as of now is to make big money transactions
easy and anonymous. That's just a summary of big gang crime stuff...
It's not as easy as paying with bank card yet, the big media is also
against it obviously and not making look like something not easy and
secure.
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[–]Cold-Change5060 1 point 6 hours ago
It does this on a 4 year cycle. It's done it several times now.
It peaks from lack of new coins after the halving. Goes to ridiculous
levels from speculation. Then it crashes and levels out still much
higher than the previous cycle's low.
We are in the low part of the cycle. Outside of this it follows the
market because when other investments go down they are on sale, so
people sell BTC to buy those, and vice versa.
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[–]longstreakof 1 point 6 hours ago
Bitcoin hasn’t developed as the created expected. It has become a
speculative investment with no real day to day usage despite being
around for a long time.
The amount of scams and criminals in the crypto space is not helping
to get new money into the system either. I know these scams are
separate to bitcoin but it hurts confidence and take up.
We are in a dangerous space. If we continue to see frauds and scams in
crypto the whole space will be regulated heavily and that will be very
bad for bitcoin.
I am personally waiting to see what happens in the first half of 2023.
If a few more exchanges fail and more alt coins or stable coins
collapse then it won’t be pretty.
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[–]ClassyDumpster 1 point 6 hours ago
It's only red if you got in after institution money came in. I'm still green.
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[–]ou8bbq 1 point 6 hours ago
Until you can use it to buy stuff it’s another vehicle for investors
to kite and dump.
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[–]Spartacus_Nakamoto 1 point 5 hours ago
If you look at the size of the bond market and the moves being made to
manipulate interest rates it starts to make sense why everything moves
together. It’s just distortions in the value of money. The entire
global economy is like trying to measure something with a yard stick
that keeps changing length arbitrarily. Long term these fluctuations
don’t matter as much, and if you zoom out bitcoin is reacting as it
should.
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[–]oneluv_hug 1 point 5 hours ago
Institutions that have large holdings will soon be able to manipulate
prices, just like the stock market.
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[–]Particular_Relief154 1 point 5 hours ago
I think the problem is in the people investing in it. Most see it as a
get rich quick scheme- and I’m not going to lie- that’s exactly how I
entered the crypto space. It’s simply seen by the world as an asset at
best. And a scam by people who don’t understand it.
Adoption and usage via the lightning network is key to getting it to
breakaway and decouple from the stock markets.
I fear that the only real way to get joe-public on board is via the
mainstream banks. Look at how sceptical the world was at contactless,
Apple/Google pay etc, and now it’s mainstream. And more used than
cash. The investment banks have already started to move in and include
it in their portfolios, and before too long the high street banks will
have done the same. They know they have to either embrace it and offer
it, or risk their futures. So they’ll embrace it and start to offer
Bitcoin services where they skim a profit on transactions. Once this
happens then the public see Bitcoin as a serious thing (it’s not just
some friend or person at work banging on about it like a conspiracy
theorist anymore, it’s real because my bank said so), and start to
adopt it too..
That and that halvings, coupled with inflation of fiat- should see it
decouple and climb (in relation to fiat).
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[–]iHatecats-1337 1 point 5 hours ago
Shhhhhh. Some of us are still trying to stack in these trying times.
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[–]the-faded-ferret 1 point 5 hours ago
If you overlay the BTC chart with periods of tightening or money
printing you’ll see very clear lines
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[–]my21streddit 1 point 4 hours ago
I'd argue it isn't red. It went from not existing last time to
being worth $17k. That's a pretty good hedge!
The #1 problem facing bitcoin is ease of use. Us technical people
have no problem, but my parents can't figure out how to use
Apple/Google maps (partly because they don't want to, partly because
they 'can't'). So the concept of backing up a private key/secret words
is utterly foreign to them, no matter how many times you explain it.
And, sadly, it isn't just the 70+ crowd who is this way, I know plenty
of 20-30 somethings who are the same.
Ease of use part 2: The real game changer would be if someone
could create a distributed, trustless, bitcoin exchange that accepted
the same Financial Messages that banks use in order to move money via
wires/ACH, but instead those dollars got written to a blockchain right
alongside the crypto they were being exchanged for. The reason nobody
does this is because access to the FM system is human controlled, so
someone has to give you access. Similar to trying to run your own
postfix server; receiving e-mail is easy. Good luck sending one
without relaying it through Google, your ISP, or some other 'trusted'
party.
Removal of capital gains filing requirement. It's too much of a
headache to remember every transaction you had and file capital gains
on it.
By FAR, number 3 is the biggest deal. Build a trustless way to convert
fiat to crypto (and I mean in big volumes, $100k-$100m volumes per
single user) and you've got something really worth having. This DOES
NOT mean 'no KYC'. The fact that it's designed to interface with the
traditional FM system means KYC is a requirement from day 0. If you
want that changed, well, lobby for that and #4 at the same time, as
both of those are legislative changes.
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[–]The-BEAST 1 point 4 hours ago
These past few years were “oh boy I hope this goes to 1 million I will
be rich” instead of the reasons stated. Once that’s not true it’s been
first to the exit. With the collapse of multiple massive exchanges and
liquidations people don’t have the same faith and or money to throw at
it anymore.
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[–]Bootiluvr 1 point 4 hours ago
I for one, welcome more of a downturn. Cheaper bitcoin.
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[–]bigwavedave000 1 point 4 hours ago
Lots of BTC "trading", has nothing to do with BTC.
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[–]halt_spell 1 point 4 hours ago
Raising interest rates was likely due in part to the Fed watching
people successfully dump their USD (and not just exchange it for USD
denominated assets).
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[–]Outrageous_Result_43 1 point 4 hours ago
How long after the internet goes down from an SHTF event, will BTC be
accessible?
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[–]Old-Bluebird8461 1 point 4 hours ago
Politicians
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[–]MyNameIsJoe68 1 point 3 hours ago
The reason is because Bitcoin became institutionalized in the last 3 years
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[–]zenethics 1 point 3 hours ago
Because some bought at 1 penny and some bought at 70k.
There is no possible way an asset like this could capitalize like it
needs to without the volatility we're seeing.
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[–]4Sal13 1 point 3 hours ago
Because just like fiat, btc has slowly ended up in the hands of the
wealthy. Let’s face it, the rich will always get richer and the poor
will remain poor. (The are few exceptions of course). To think that
these people with more money than they will ever need, didn’t watch
two insane bull runs with btc and haven’t hopped aboard would be short
sighted in my opinion. Small fish are barely staying afloat right now.
Let alone being able to fuel a new bull. Money printer no longer
brrrrring….
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[–]Bryanadamz 1 point 3 hours ago
If you have to make the choice between paying rent / feeding your kids
or holding your bitcoin, the choice is obvious
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[–]CorneliusFudgem 1 point 3 hours ago
Because history repeats itself and the true value of bitcoin can only
be grasped by groups of people experiencing centralized oppression.
I would bet every penny I have that bitcoin becomes $10,000,000+ in a
universe where hyperinflation becomes rampant (aka the universe we’re
currently in lol).
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[–]certifiedforgedcheck 1 point 3 hours ago
BTC is being used primarily for speculation. Unless it fundamentally
replaces fiat, it will most likely move with the market.
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[–]soooofa_king 1 point 2 hours ago
BTC is speculative like other tech stocks. It will move accordingly.
The only thing that will change that paradigm is if people actually
believe it is something different than a speculative investment.
Nothing indicates that will happen anytime soon.
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[–]robothistorian 1 point 2 hours ago*
Interesting question. A lot of interesting and thought provoking answers too.
Let me add one more dimension to the answers already shared.
As many have said, folks are (1) uneasy (due to lack of familiarity)
with digital assets (2) transacting with it remains a stumbling block
as it's not as easy as pulling out a few notes of fiat or presenting a
card (3) folks remain trapped by the mindset that it is a "store of
value" and thus somewhat (but not wholly) analogous to gold.
I suggest that there is a deeper and more problematic reason that
underwrites the whole Bitcoin phenomenon. Bitcoin as many know was one
of the consequences of the financial crisis. It was (and remains)
envisioned as an alternate and innovative way to distribute wealth.
But because of precisely this reason, it was and continues to be
considered to be a critical threat by the State.
This is because a State has three primary "rights"/duties that it
performs ostensibly on behalf of its citizens. These are: (1) the
right to raise armies and wage war (2) the right to lay down the law
and to enforce it, and (3) the right to levy taxes and to redistribute
wealth.
Bitcoin, arguably, challenges this last right. If you look at the
history of the evolution of the State (regardless of its various
manifestations), you will find that whenever an entity or agency has
threatened to undermine any one of these primary "rights"/duties of
the State, it has retaliated to preserve its exclusiveness.
Bitcoin effectively takes away from the State the right to
redistribute wealth. This is a threat to the State. Thus notice the
nature and character of the debates that are taking place across
legislative bodies across the world about Bitcoin.
For example, often we hear Senator Warren arguing in her
self-righteous and shrill manner about the need for regulation of
"cryptos" (Bitcoin included). While the question of regulation remains
open (what kind of regulation, who will regulate, how can models of
restitution be built into a digital system etc), she also claims that
"cryptos" are used for money laundering, enabling terrorist states
etc. (We heard her make these arguments during the recent FTX-related
hearings). What she does not state - rather omits to say - is that
fiat - specially the US$ - is the primary instrument which has been
used for money laundering, drug trafficking, financing narco-terrorism
etc. And what's interesting is that the State wholly
controls/regulates the circulation of fiat.
Recognizing this, the State and it's agents have designed this
narrative that digital entities like Bitcoin are dangerous; they are
entities that only have a speculative value; they are "created out of
thin air" (which is one of the more specious of arguments given that
fiat is backed by nothing but "the fiat" of the State, that is to say,
by it's propensity to engage in violence), among other things.
So for widespread adoption to take place, a conceptual change will be
necessary. That will take time but, I strongly suspect, it will
happen.
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[–]bender-io 1 point an hour ago
Just give it time and deepen your understanding in the mean time. Once
it gets to a market cap of $10 trillion or so, it should have enough
liquidity to break free of its stock market correlation. The more Ive
grown to appreciate Bitcoin, the less I care about it’s price action
at any point in time.
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[–]MT_Blockchain [score hidden] 48 minutes ago
Educating people is the key. The more people understand BTC and opt
in, the more you see it valued, denominated in USD term
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[–]ThunderPigGaming [score hidden] 41 minutes ago
If BTC were to remain in this price range (or steady at any price
range), it will serve its purpose as an alternative currency. You do
not want a currency to be as volatile as BTC has been. Imagine if the
US Dollar had been as volatile as BTC has been. Our economy would be a
wreck.
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