bantering with punk was Re: What advantage does Signal protocol have over basic public key encryption?

[Karl]

>> It's really a lot of work to look up information to back up every
>> single point I make.
>
> 	.... A lot of work? Finding one reddit link?
<snip>
> 	I would never make such assumption. It's a perfect example of a 'non
> sequitur'. It doesn't follow that X being easy means X is being done.

Punk, my schizophrenia is really bad.  When I look around me, it is
effectively like looking through a piece of black paper with pinholes
poked into it, because my visual cortex freaks out about everything I
see.  WhenI try to move my body, it is kind of a guess that involves a
lot of flailing.  I'm addicted to computers, but it is hard to use
them nowadays.

More to the point, you argue absolutely everything I say in many
areas, so it is not very effective to look everything up for evidence,
if it is relatively obviously.

Here is a proof for you:
There are X billion people on the planet.  Each person is exposed to Y
different things and has Z different skills.  Each person has A%
downtime, during which they combine their Z skills with the Y things
they are exposed to.  Over the course of somebody's life, they will
sample the combinations of Z with Y, A% of the time.

Not only that, but they probably work a job B% of their remaining
time, where they also combine Z with Y in ways that other people
choose.

Now, their Z skills arrived from experience and practice, in exposure
to the Y things around them.  So, since they have these skills at all,
we can infer that there is a smaller set of skills Z_2, which they
used in thorough learning combination with Y_2, the things they were
exposed to earlier in life.

Ahhhh I don't know enough off-hand probability to make it look like a
real proof ;P

But the upshot is that if something is everywhere, and obviously
doable, people _do_ it.  People _try_ things.  If you give a set of
paints to a group of people without paints, and wait, you will produce
new, creative paintings.  It is what happens.  Every single time.
Unless somebody else is exposing them to artistry otherwise or
preventing them from engaging in it, which does not happen
universally.

>> >         On the other hand you cannot use the 'signal service' at
>> > signal.org without registering. As a side note of sorts :  "Signal is a
>> > registered trademark in the United States and other countries.". Plus :
>> >
>> >         "You agree to use our Services only for legal, authorized, and
>> > acceptable purposes. "
>> >         ('acceptable'? 'authorized'? 'legal'? LMAO)
>> >
>> >         "Signal’s Rights. We own all copyrights, trademarks, domains,
>> > logos, trade dress, trade secrets, patents, and other intellectual
>> > property rights associated with our Services."
>>
>> Trademark law doesn't seem to be a good point against anything here,
>> to me.  It is normal in the USA to register trademarks for words.
>
> 	
> 	Yes, 'normal' means it follows 'norms' or 'laws'. Following insane US laws
> is 'normal' only in that circular sense. Apart from that, it is insane.

This doesn't seem to be a logical argument point, as registering a
trademark is not following a law, and norms are emergent whereas laws
are prescriptive.

Do you do anything in your free time, punk-stasi?

I had a really unpleasant experience today where I lost a lot of
memory parts.  I cried for these lost memories.

Do you code in python?  Machine learning algorithms are big in python.
They're not hard to use.

Part of your name is "batsoup".  When I was caving it was so
wonderful.  Caves are incredibly beautiful inside.  It is like a
climbing gym, everywhere, often for miles and miles, sometimes
thousands of feet under the soil.  Some people camp out in caves
during long mapping trips.

I went into a new cave that had just been discovered once.  We had to
crawl through these tiny passageways, both sideways and up-and-down!
We also had to rapell down cliffs using ropes.  Eventually we got to a
room 300 ft wide and tall, with a giant waterfall coursing straight
down the middle of it.  That waterfall had cut the whole room.  People
climbed up the sides of the room, and their headlamps looked like
stars sparkling in the dark underground distance.  Around the edges of
the cave the water pooled, and flowed further into more unexplored
earth.

Caves often have crystals in them.  Bats hang upside down.  There are
also other creatures, insects and other things.

It would be easy to live deep in a cave using water for electricity.
But you'd need to manage your toilet well.

I have always loved being alone, silent, and in the darkness.  Caves
have these things to such an extreme.

>> This makes it harder for other people to co-opt them and pretend to be
>> you.  They are only legally protecting their name and logo.
>>
>> Yes, their mainstream client centralises registration, probably for
>> reliable identity management, a choice that has been discussed
>> extensively.
>
>
> 	.... has been discussed by whom?

They used to discuss it in bug reports and feature requests.  It's
also been discussed on this list extensively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle

> 	So anyway, my conclusion again : the signal PROTOCOL is more robust under
> CERTAIN attacks. The SIGNAL COMPANY is an untrustworthy organization that
> was 'founded' with 3 millions from the pentagon and 50 millions from some
> silicon valley oligarch and WHATSAP asshole.

Punk is participating in the incredibly harmful targeting of community
work.  He makes it obvious he is doing this, so he is an ally who
should not be trusted.  He has also acted to support this list, I
believe.

The idea of sharing mistrust of a nonprofit is interesting, as
nonprofits are also made to support the ends of profit-motivated
organisations.

The idea of pointing out behaviors that sound untrustworthy is also interesting.

The continued question is how do we know whom to trust.

Maybe a much better question, is whom can we trust better than whom
else, and in what ways, and for what?