Re: “Can the state withstand a full-blown Bitcoin offensive?”

Karl gmkarl at gmail.com
Mon Jan 25 16:48:38 PST 2021


On 1/25/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:25:57 -0500
> Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> you know what?  you're right.  bitcoin is waste of time and a
>> dangerous secret weapon.  I wonder what people do to preserve exotic
>> data without it.  i bet there are a lot of ways.
>
> 	bitcoin has at least one property that's unconditionally good : the supply
> is limited and the supply can't be manipulated. That's a fundamental
> requirement for any kind of 'money'.

Okay, so Karl does things that people say make people hurt you ... and
Punk says things that are in disagreement with what he's replying to
... this is incredibly hard to remember and act on, like really really
hard to remember and act on ...

> 	For the time being bitcoin is 'permisionless' and that's good as well.
> HOWEVER given the weak anonimity of bitcoin, the permisionless/censorship
> resistance aspect of it is kinda dubious in the long term. Also, ultimately,
> bitcoin can't work as money if it's not 'fungible' (and fungibility requires
> bitcoin to be untraceable/anonymous)

i wonder if some silent actors are prolonging some of bitcoin's
attributes behind different scenes

like, sending a lot of anti-cryptocurrency messaging prevents as much
experienced cronyism from developing as rapidly, as people who trust
the messaging avoid the currency.

>> what people do to preserve exotic  data
>
> 	preserving 'exotic data' is not the purpose of bitcoin, sorry. Bitcoin is
> (supposed to be) a cryptocurrency, not a file system.

oh yeah and the point of fighting is to win, of course.

>> but also you know what?  i really don't care about privacy.
>
> 	well now you're talking =) If you don't care about privacy feel free to
> publish your private keys.

i do that already, juan.

i did keep the one with coderman "private" but if coderman consents
i'm interested in publishde it.  it has more value unpublished.  and i
have a broken device with some old keys on it that i'd love to extract
=/

>> i need  cryptographic exchange to _reveal_ the _horrific_atrocities_ our
>> leaders are stimulating.
>
> 	that's pretty misguided. We need surveillance for govcorp criminals and
> privacy for common people. The opposite of what we have now.

we agree there.

immutable storage aids in surveilliing govcorp, because they can no
longer rubberhose things away.

>> we have cash for privacy.
>
>
> 	agreed. Physical cash is superior to anything computer based. But we don't
> actually have decent cash. We have pseudo money printed by govcorp (and it's
> being 'outlawed' as we speak)

real cash is obviously wise behavior.  death is our limited supply.

>> but if you're not aware, the way to be private online is to not
>> associate things with yourself.  jacob appelbaum talked about this a
>> lot.
>>
>> how are you doing punk
>
>
> 	the way to be private online is to not be online.

the way to not die a teenager is to not be online ;p

imagine your whole brain atrophying until all it understands is a
bright rectangle
all your best dreams, are the things you could be feeling all day if
you hadn't learned to sit in a chair.

but yeah online is a cool escape avenue for people enslaved by chairs
or violence

on the internet in the 90s a lot of nerds were people with broken
family lives, who had online lives because there were no living ones
around them.

>> >> Cryptocurrency could be a good lesson on the importance of taking
>> >> things carefully and methodically, and working with your enemies,
>> >> during emergencies.
>> >
>> > 	you should kill your enemies, not work with them.
>>
>> funny whenever i do that i get more, notably among their immediate
>> family.  i don't like having enemies, do you?
>
> 	some people deserve to be killed.

such as people who kill.  that cycle's important, but that's not my
culture.  it feels way more right to me to permanently prevent the
problem, than to kill the people who participated in it.

the killing is just a way to make the ongoing issue more intense.
things are already too intense.

what do you think of those of us, who feel like we are our enemies,
and feel viscerally any harm we see ourselves causing?  this pattern
is everywhere.

>> >> This evidenced by the price rising more than wall
>> >> street can believe exists, on a regular basis.
>> >
>> > 	....
>>
>> sounds like you need a link here.
>
>> Last year Bitcoin had over one  hundred times the return of a normal
>> investment account.
>
> 	I'm familiar with the price of bitcoin since it was $0.10 or so. The
> question is, what do you think the current high price of bitcoin proves?

I don't remember my quote is gone ;P

Okay, I scrolled up!  Yay!

The point is that by manipulating culture to discourage cryptocurrency
it is becoming a really big thing.  It is starting to break the global
economy because the global economy feared it.

>> > 	I think you should stop with the completely baseless 'techn-optimism'
>> > unless your aim is of course to spread misinformation.
>>
>> I'm trying to stimulate an apocalypse where all the worst stuff happens
>> ever =(
>>
>> I need to talk with somebody who doesn't like technology _or_
>> conflict, but I like you.
>
>
> 	I don't like conflict per se. It's just that I don't ignore all the
> conflict around me.

Any thoughts on reducing vs amplifying it?


More information about the cypherpunks mailing list