Bantering with punk-stasi-victim was Re: Slavery was Formally Abolished Today, Happy Freedom Day

[Karl]

Here we go again with totally different answers!

On 2/6/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:34:57 -0500
> Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/6/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > 	I'll reply to *some*  points.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> > 	nah, you're just repeating propaganda, pretending that prostitution
>> >> > overlaps with 'human trafficking'.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe this doesn't happen where you're from, I don't know.
>> >
>> >
>> > 	It doesn't happen anywhere. It's US anti-sex propaganda. So either you
>> > know
>> > little to  nothing about the anti-culture in which you live in - the US
>> > puritan fascist cesspool - or you're being dishonest.
>>
>> Punk, I bumped into a weirdo.  He said I had to draw a square on the
>> wall, and if I ever told anybody about him, the instructions, or the
>> square, he would kill me!
>
>
> 	Do you like to speak in riddles? Or do you do it because you think it
> serves some purpose? Problem is, I don't understand your riddles. I can try
> half guessing, but it takes effort and makes the discussion even harder to
> follow.

It's not a riddle.  It's a summarisation of things that have happened
to me.  The parts were changed to ones I made up.  It's meant
straight, plus obvious similarity.

>> >> There are many solutions to every problem.
>> >
>> > 	This is an allegedly 'anarchist'(LMAO) mailing list and I am an
>> > anarchist,
>> > so the relevant solution here is abolition of government. Which is the
>> > the
>> > only morally correct solution by the way.
>>
>> I'll keep this quoted in the hope that you do too.  Helps us have some
>> shared ground, to know that you chose to say that.
>
>
> 	I don't need to keep it quoted. But it looks like something you need to
> keep in mind. So do that. Keep that in mind, not on your computer screen.

I don't really know how to do that.  Maybe I could make a notes file
regarding our conversations.

> 	You know, you write in an articulated/elaborated way and you don't sound
> like a fool or crazy to me. At the same time you keep saying you are crazy
> or hinting that you don't remember what you wrote an hour ago. Those two
> things put together don't make sense. So my tentative conclusion is that
> you're not being serious.

I was well-educated before this happened to me.

>> >> I'm down for an abolition-of-government solution to human trafficking,
>> >> which is obviously just a much more personal and violent form of
>> >> 'governance'.
>> >
>> > 	abolition of government isn't 'obviosly a much more violent form of
>> > governance' - what are you talking about.
>>
>> Let me say that part again, which looks grammatically correct when I
>> review what you quoted:
>> "that thing we're pretending is propaganda, is obviously just a much
>> more personal and violent form of 'governance'"
> 	
>
> 	Sorry, your clarification doesn't really clarify much. Last try :
>
> 	"I'm down for an abolition-of-government solution to human trafficking"
> 	
> 	Ok, that statement is clear and non-ambiguous. But then you add
>
> 	"which is obviously just a much more personal and violent form of
> 'governance'"
>
> 	What is the word "which" pointing at? What is this thing you're describing
> as "a much more personal and violent form of 'governance'"? As far as I can
> tell you're saying that abolition of government is a more violent form of
> government. Which is absurd.

Personal slavery.  Where the government is not a large organised body
but rather a smaller representative of pain.

>> >> We'd have to make sure to prevent slavery, in the
>> >> government-abolition.
>> >
>> > 	that sounds like typical anti anarchist propaganda.
>>
>> ? When you abolish government you pretty much solve every problem
>> because you can directly address them instead of going through
>> bureaucrats and enforcement officers.
>
> 	No. When you abolish government, all the problems that governmetn causes
> dissapear. That's the whole point of abolishing government.

Sorry, thought you were blaming all problems on government.

So you do you propose abolishing "government" and not abolishing "slavery"?

Personally, like, anarchism is cool, but to me govcorp looks pretty
blurry.  The USA government would basically disappear by actually
respecting people if the powers pulling their strings were wrangled.

>> But often people leave stuff  out when planning.
>
> 	social planners are interested in planning. Social planners are the
> opposite of anarchists.

These similarity of "planning" does not mean that planners are
governments.  Me, I'd like to live in a community where we do not
enslave people, but rather respect everyone in it.

What do you think of the idea of offering a service to governments and
anarchists both, where young women can be forced to seduce activists,
possibly even marry them, to take them out of their activism?

>> > 	Not sure what you mean. 'Legislation' in the US is clearly fascist and
>> > it
>> > is obviously enforced and supported by people in the US. The words,
>> > beliefs
>> > and behaviours are all aligned.
>>
>> Since I'm the dirty cop here, you gotta believe me that the written
>> law is different from what is going on here.
>
>
> 	There's no reason for me to believe you and ignore plain evidence. But
> maybe you're talking about 'laws' that include bullshit like "we love human
> rights bla bla"?

Tired response.

You're more tired than me in some ways, but may not get to say this.

"laws".  "we love human rights bla bla".

Many people believe those laws and follow and live by them.  Many of
these people are where the government's power comes from, so they
actually defend the laws for those people.

> 	Those 'human rights' 'laws' are of course more propaganda. In practice the
> US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet, it's the most dangerous
> rogue state on the planet, has military bases all over the planet, etc, etc,
> and does all that according to their 'laws'.

Most of that stuff is picked by humans, kind of outside the laws.
Like, the law might say some human can pick stuff, and the human picks
that bad stuff.

But, like, yeah, laws are bad.  It's really hard to talk like the
die-hard antigov you pretend to be after my brainwashing.  Is there a
word for not actually being a government agent but being about as
gross as one?  I'm about as gross as a government agent, just in a way
that yields great pity, so I think of laws as helpful, now.

I was running a story-analogy in this thread-part and I don't remember
what it was.

>> [apologies to any real
>> law enforcement or mafia workers in the crowd, presently engaging a
>> new psychotic break, it's up in the air whether i keep this public
>> moniker]
>>

I'll trim that away if punk doesn't.

>> > 	Yes, I want to focus on the crimes that the US slavers commit
>> > worldwide
>> > whereas you're focusing on their 'anti human trafficking' propaganda,
>> > which
>> > has the exact purpose of hiding their crimes and trying to pretend that
>> > they
>> > are the 'good guys'.
>>
>> Really, with a good blockchain'd camera and a big and diverse crowd,
>> you could win lawsuits altering the harmful behaviors of the US, based
>> on antislavery laws.
>
>
> 	Haha. Win lawsuits? By definition the govt owns the courts.

I've had success in two court battles myself.

> 	So  what kind of anarchist thinks he's going to fight government by hiring
> government lawyers to discuss pseudo legal bullshit in governmetn courts?
>
>> > 	So let me know when you start your anti US govcorp campaign instead of
>> > relaying their anti-sex, anti-prostitution propaganda.
>>
>> Happy to run whatever campaign is willing to welcome all supporters,
>> and listen to all their ideas.  If you're intentionally excluding
>> people who want to support you, or their ideas, that's a recipe for
>> disaster, leave me out.
>
>
> 	Why wouldn't I exclude people who parrot govt propaganda.

Obviously because somebody would train everybody to parrot it, so that
they got the people instead of you.

>> >> The united nations is one of many, many organizations that produces
>> >> information on human trafficking.  Here is their 2020 report:
>> >> https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/tip/2021/GLOTiP_2020_15jan_web.pdf
>> >> .  It describes sexual slavery as around half the documented human
>> >> trafficking.
>> >
>> > 	here we go - 'sexual slavery'.
>>
>> here we go - ignored everything i said and focused on only one small
>> part, pretending it represents something relevant and meaningful.
> 	
> 	The only thing you've been doing is pretending that all this 'human
> trafficking' bullshit isn't US propaganda.

Say there were a tiny bit of human trafficking.  Say I had even
experienced it!  What would be a respectful way to engage this,
without spreading bullshit propaganda?

Anyway, here's how to start a human trafficking ring.

Clean out your basement.

Go out on the streets and kidnap some kids.  Tie them up in your
basement.  Keep them separate.

Whenever the kids complain, hit them.  When they are nice to you, give
them nice things.

Then, untie them and open the doors.

If they try to leave, hit them and tie them back up.

Then give them nice things, like food and water and kind words.

Repeat until they stay.

They train one of them for the others.  This one will come and try to
'rescue' them.  The path will be believable.

The rescue will lead to the punishment area.  Practice running rescues
until every falls for the rescue and gets punished.

Now, repeat the rescue training until nobody ever tries to escape.

Great!  Now train all these kids to do what you just did, to other people.

_Awesome_.  You have an automated business that runs itself!  Ching-chaching!

These people will find new ways to discuss being rescued.  But you can
train people to get good at finding new strategies to prevent it.
Punishment is worth more money than there is on the planet.

Here's what's actually true, rather than that bullshit:
When somebody tries to control your behavior, they vomit on your soul
in a way you can never, ever forget.  Like they have told you they
hate you in a way so real that you become it.  Maybe you consciously
forget everything that hurt, everything that is bad, maybe you can't
bring to mind any memories of this.  But it is written on ever fibre
of your being, in a way every part of you understands and knows, like
nothing else.

This is why government cannot last.  Not because of some fake world rebellion.

>> > 	Nobody told me what to do here. And when I'm told what to do I usually
>> > do
>> > the opposite.
>>
>> Yeah?  Who would you love to disobey the most?  \0xDynamite told me
>> they were in charge, I think.
>
> 	Oh yes, he's literally a jew theocrat. You can imagine how much I would
> obey him.

So you're speaking backwards-language?  You were told what to do, and
you are following orders?

>> >> I found some of it.  You don't trust the law because Lincoln wasn't
>> >> really that strong on Freedom, even though they signed it in?
>> >
>> >
>> > 	it's pretty clear that 'The North' didn't intend to abolish slavery.
>> > It
>> > just happened as a side-effect of the civil war to keep the nazi US
>> > union.
>> > Hell the name of the FUCKING CESSPOOL is UNITED STATES!!
>>
>> Maybe you were talking for them, then, but you care about me and still
>> want to help me, now?
>
> 	Am I talking for whom? I'm presenting the historical facts.

Sounds like those older facts are still pretty important.  What could
happen to make them right?

>> The anti-human-trafficking laws didn't help establish trust?
>> https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/chapter-78
>
> 	establish trust? I don't know what you mean. Trust in government? Why would
> you want that?

This was another analogy-story that I forget.

>> >> You also quoted that slavery is only legal in the united states as
>> >> punishment for a crime the victim has been duly convicted of.
>> >
>> > 	so slavery IS STILL LEGAL. What part you don't get?
>>
>> It sounds like you are really interested in helping close the last
>> loopholes?
>
> 	last loopholes? The 'loophole' is the existence of government itself.
>
> 	And no I'm not particulary interested in making govt laws look prettier.
> The fact that the US govt makes slavery explicitly 'legal' is a good
> reminder of what governments actually are.

Totally.  Justice is run by human beings, not laws.  That justice can
be a mob of people, a court of law, a mediation, it can be anything.
But we need to take action and talk with people, to make it happen.

Anyway, sorry you were enslaved to downplay my sharing of rescue
information.  Obviously I'd be upset at whoever did that, not you.

>> >> For me, I haven't engaged in any serious crime, but I can still be
>> >> convicted in illegal ways that utilise loopholes, coercion, etc.  So
>> >> it's helpful to have documentation and a friend with some resources,
>> >> of which there may be many on this list.
>> >
>> > 	again, I don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>> Oh.  We'd better talk about it more.  What don't you understand?
>
> 	Government can put anybody they want in jail for any reason (that is, for
> no reason at all). That's what government is all about.

You mean organised crime!  It's organised crime that does that.  In
the USA laws get in the way of government immediately imprisoning
people.

> 	If what you want is to 'reform' government you're anything but an
> anarchist.

I glanced at the bottom of the email after my last writing was lost,
and am guessing you're asking for more people.  Any idea how to access
/proc/*/mem on a redhat system?  I keep getting "Input/output error".

>> >> > 	sure sure. The slaves the US govt is saving...
>> >>
>> >> Nah, the US govt doesn't do too much.  It's mostly churches and
>> >> whatnot.
>> >
>> > 	it's...what? Ah US churches. The worst kind of puritan garbage out
>> > there
>> > and their anti prostitution crusades. Thanks for making my point yet
>> > again.
>>
>> And did you know that _oxygen_ causes _fires_?  My god!  Can you
>> believe it?  And the planet is _covered_ in it!
>
> 	You think you're teaching me something with your false analogy? Churches
> are a fucking criminal cancer.

So is carbon monoxide and ozone!  It's obviously because they have
oxygen in them!

>> I'm not big on churches, but I like a ton that they help slaves, and
>> also the homeless, everywhere.  I also like some of their rituals and
>> values a lot, but not the common belief that other religions could be
>> wrong.
>
> 	Yeah, nothing says 'anarchism' like US jew-christiano fascists and their
> 'charity'.

[insert lost story around coordinating with an organiser of a quaker
meeting, and how our cultures prevented us from organising the city to
resolve homelessness]

>> >> I'm actually pretty scared to guess what kinds of people
>> >> help these things!  I'm worried they'd get hurt.  Let's guess who they
>> >> are when we've made it clear we're going to support them.
>> >
>> > 	I am an anarchist. I support the destruction of fucking US
>> > jew-kristian
>> > churches. And you know what? I MEAN WHAT I SAY.
>>
>> Arright, we better understand each other.
>>
>> Since I'm not aware of any jew churches, I think what you mean is that
>> we REALLY need to fight BAD STUFF.  And we need to do this almost more
>> than anything else.  Is that accurate?
>
> 		
> 	"I'm not aware of any jew churches"
>
> 	yeah right. You need to open your eyes then - learn the basic history of
> jew-kkkristian fascism. Look up "puritanism" in joogle? Go to a library?
>
> 	You can start with this : christianity is a form of totalitarianism derived
> from jew savagery and totalitarianism.

Although many people make that logical sloppiness, nobody really does
it in this context.

Thinking on the value of speaking straight.  Wrote a lot more last
time.  Experiencing some cognitive issues here.

>> >> > 	so why do you pretend that the US govt and its supporters are
>> >> > opposed
>> >> > to slavery?
>> >>
>> >> To try to help it be more true than it already is, so we can be free
>> >> sooner.
>> >
>> >
>> > 	What the hell are you saying exactly? You keep lying and helping the
>> > US
>> > govt criminals spread propaganda so that they become the 'good guys'?
>> > Talk
>> > about meaningless absurdities...
>>
>> Lemme rephrase for you:
>> If you are stuck in the fucking USA, and you need some fucking freedom
>> before we take down the fucking government, the fucking USA human
>> trafficking hotline might be able to help.
>
> 	See? You can talk in a clear way with little effort. And the clear reply is
> : the  'human trafficking' 'hotline' is just for show. It's propaganda to
> get people to believe that the government is good and caring. The 'human
> trafficking' 'hotline' does more harm than good.

My names is FakeAnarchistGimmeMoreBeerAndWeed
FakeAnarchistLetsFuckingBlowUpTheFuckingWhiteHouse

Anyway, if you want to fucking die in the street while fucking cops
rip your fucking tent to shreds and fucking brutalise your fucking
body, be my guest, but shit do fucking smart people fucking sign up
for fucking government aid and talk to a fucking therapist who doesn't
fucking slur through a pile of fucking forties to say everything.

I dunno, man.  Maybe you don't know how nice it is to be able to
contact a freedom resource when what you've been through is beyond
what anybody you talk to seems able to comprehend.  I asked my
therapist if he could find somebody who had experience working with
torture victims.  He said he'd try a little bit.

I can't fend for myself anymore.  I've always given to others.  When
I'm on the streets, people can tell that I had a middle-class
experience.  But now I need to take to myself to survive.  I'm a
software developer.  It's like all I know how to do well.  It would be
really powerful if I could do anything useful with it, but I'm
brainwashed not to.  Hmm.

I'm so confused.

Are you asking me to join street communities instead of calling the
human trafficking hotline?  Why are you speaking in riddles when you
do this?

I like doing that.  I love being outdoors.

Okay here's why I'm weird:  I want to talk to someone who understands,
and the streets are full of people who understand.  I don't have to
hop through 200 therapists to find this.

That's an interesting idea.

>> [aside: I don't consent to swearing; I need some tool that helps me
>> build habits I choose.]
>>
>> >> >> It's obvious the US government is crummy.
>> >> >
>> >> > 	crummy?
>> >>
>> >> Functions as a tool of denied global systemic murder, acting with
>> >> great obsession to stay that way.  This is obvious, and people work
>> >> hard to slowly change it.
>> >
>> >
>> > 	So the US govt isn't crummy. It's the *most efficient* and most toxic
>> > criminal organization on the planet.
>>
>> Sounds like your conversation is more important than mine for a reason
>> you know really well.  I didn't mean at all to not say the true thing
>> you said.
>
> 	Ok, maybe I got the meaning of 'crummy' wrong. I haven't seen that word
> used much (not making excuses).  I thought 'crummy' meant something like "
> dirty and run-down; shabby."

Yeah, it means like "a little bad".  I was just moving focus back
towards providing more options for victims of slavery.

>> >> You keep assuming in your talk that there is no such thing as
>> >> modern-day slavery, and you seem unable to discuss this.
>> >
>> > 	modern day slavery is the political system we live in.
>>
>> And we can reduce it!  Tada!
> 	
>
> 	Yes, but certainly not by calling the government's 'human trafficking'
> 'hotline'.

Actually, this is helpful.

> 	If you call the governmetn's 'human trafficking' 'hotline' you'll increase
> modern day  slavery by playing into the governmetn's hands.

Well, due to phone surveillance and culture organisation, yes, but
you'll also expend their resources monitoring you and influencing the
people working there, and you they'll have to listen to some of the
story and could turn into rebels.

Anyway, so, you work for a government?  Since you're clearly doing a
job here and keep blaming the government for slavery.

>> >> This makes it clear that you are experiencing it, in a way that is
>> >> very hard to understand.
>> >
>> > 	I'm experiencing what? Slavery at the hands of govcorp? well yeah. Is
>> > that
>> > news?
>>
>> It's always news if you can't talk about the details of it.
>
> 	The details are everywhere. Did you hear about the fake 'covid' 'pandemic'
> and the fact that that half the world has been/is under house arrest? What's
> your take on all that?

Hey this long answer was where my email closed!

So, as far as I know, it's the response that's fake.  Covid is real,
the response is fake.  So that's just 1 layer of unclear communication
with you there.  Usually many more it seems.

It seems to be a way to gain better control of the world as technology
and communicatoin resulting from grassroots activism develop, dunno.

Kinda looks like it also helps people stimulating disruption, what
with the public masks hiding faces and all.

Oh, it reduces the need for surveillance infrastructure, since
everybody is indoors and online.  This probably helps defuse the
ongoing cold war.  The nice thing about that is that people with
urgent importance can of course leave their home to do things, but
most people won't which probably satisfies a lot of powerful people.

Oh, and it supports internet businesses, showing development between
big social / big tech / whatnot and international crime.

Maybe it's a mediation point between many possibly-secret
international power groups who may be quite happy to take down
government if protected in doing so.  What was left out for your
values?

>> > 	worse than being in government jails? Oh wait, you just keep parroting
>> > bullshit from US TV and pentagon sponsored TV series, sorry. Yeah, I'm
>> > sure
>> > that 'reality' is pretty bad.
>>
>> _Yeah_.  _Worse_than_being_in_government_jails_.  In jail they
>> _feed_you_.  They _protect_you_a_tiny_bit_.  They
>> _give_you_a_way_to_talk_with_others_.
>>
>> You can die of injuries but they usually aren't as grotesque.
>>
>> If you kill yourself somebody finds you and sees you, pretty quickly,
>> and your family find out.
>>
>> Not only that, your family has a reliable way of finding you and talking
>> to you.
>>
>> In a USA jail you get work that is clearly described, and further
>> punishments that are clear.
>>
>> In jail, you don't get forced to return to your family, lie to them,
>> and secretly harm them!  Isn't that great?
>>
>> What show am I copying?
>
>
> 	Anything produced in the US. Everything you say is pretty cliche. Your ode
> to US jails was quite something. I think this discussion is past its shelf
> life.

Well, the jail I was in was maybe nicer than others.

I hear the prisons are where the real torture happens.

My request for a show was serious.  Most shows I find are kinda
stupid, assuming there is no corruption or that it isn't deeply
intertwined with everything.

I have never seen a show where somebody has to adopt a secret life of
slavery for a corporate mafia and cover it up.  I haven't watched a
lot of shows, most seem uninteresting.

I watch shows sometimes because my brainwashing accepts the behavior
as me not engaging in rebellion.  Lets me rebuild some of my memory,
for example.

>> I need good shows that talk about real
>> things.  I have found very few.
>>
>> >> >> > 	People who want to end slavery should be planning how to destroy
>> >> >> > government, not taking stolen money from government.
>> >>
>> >> Regarding anarchism, this is faulty logic.  You have more power if you
>> >> steal money from your government.
>> >
>> > 	1) the govt doesn't  'own' any money. All they have, they stole it.
>> > When
>> > you take govt money you just become an accomplice of government theft.
>> > The
>> > exact opposite of what any actual anarchist would do.
>>
>> The government makes the money.  But yeah it's all stolen from their
>> people.
>
> 	right, the govt prints the pseudo money, but the actual resources are
> stolen from all the holders of money. In the case of US dollars, the US govt
> is STEALING from people ALL OVER THE WORLD.

obviously, why are you saying this

i suppose because you don't know what to say, and don't want to talk
about slavery.

>> > 	2) the govt only gives money to their accomplices and other useful
>> > idiots
>> > who are not a threat, at all, to government.
>>
>> Whistleblowers.
>
> 	whistleblowers are not paid for what they do. They are persecuted by the
> govt.

they were paid before they blew their whistle.

>> Social aid.
>
> 	propaganda, vote buying, crums to keep the masses from revolting, etc.
> 'social aid' is obviously bad, unless you're a social democrat who is
> selling statism.

i've got an idea
let's find all those homeless bums living off social aid because they
were enslaved by a street-representative of their local law
enforcement and some pharmaceuticals, steal all their money, and
invest it in cryptocurrency right before a bubble, then we can use the
money to make a brainwashing camp where we train the homeless to hate
the government more.  whaddaya think?

>> Also, hackers who have been influenced
>> to work for them, of which many are likely on this list, honestly
>> believing themselves to be anarchists.
>
> 	if you're talking about 'hackers' working for the govt, those worthless
> scumbags need killing. They belong in the "sellout" category and in the
> "enabler-of-child-murder" category.

did you get that phrasing from pr?  i didn't know we were killing
people.  is the service available to people looking for suicide after
being forced to do something they hate for years?

>> You can get paid a ton as a  hacker.
>
> 	yeah the more corrupt you are, the bigger your govcorp paycheck is.

we were trained since we were kids that money was the only way to
survive, i mean give us a little break here.  how do you survive
without money?

> 	So, hopefully you see that taking money from the govt is bad in many
> different ways.

none of them seemed convincing to me.  seems to me the biggest danger
is being tracked, really, as well as developing habits that aren't
helpful where you spend the money to survive, and using up time if you
are working for it with your time.

>> > 	So, 'regarding anarchism', it's now obvious who is the one using
>> > faulty
>> > logic, and it isn't me.

this doesn't seem realistic to me.  and i am really good at
interpreting things as realistic.  but i also have a horrible memory,
in that i tend to only remember what i already can see.

>> >> You just need to avoid all their
>> >> traps and influence.
>> >
>> > 	Yeah sure. So you take stolen money, but you think you're so clever
>> > you're
>> > going to use the stolen money against the thieves. "The end justifies
>> > the
>> > means", oldest govcorp slogan ever. And not only that, you are arrogant
>> > enough to believe you're going to outsmart the biggest criminals in
>> > town.

I never totally understood that arrogance but it seems to actually
make a difference.

>> They watch people with money and act when it's used.  That means you
>> get one big expenditure.
>>
>> I also was able to spread money around safely a lot by using small
>> amounts of cash.  Just make a habit of holding more and more cash, and
>> then you'll have it to use in ways that are less dangerous [i.e. visit
>> the people in need and leave it for them to find].
>>
>> >> [This is a debate I haven't been exposed to, to
>> >> know the details of.
>> >
>> > 	now you have
>>
>> Juan-Sensei.
>>
>> So.  How do we take them down?
>
>
> 	we need some critical mass of people who know what they are talking about.

we need some critical mass of people who know what they are talking about.

- how do we know whether they know what they are talking about?
- note: people who know about everything and talk about it get
seriously harmed.  so we would probably have people who know about
different things, that they are talking about.

any further thoughts?