Bantering with punk-stasi-victim was Re: Slavery was Formally Abolished Today, Happy Freedom Day

Wed Feb 3 12:58:14 PST 2021

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:23:01 -0500
Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/2/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 14:44:34 -0500
> > Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/2/21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 <punks at tfwno.gf> wrote:
> >> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 15:48:18 -0500
> >> > Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Juan, you don't mean these things you say here.
> >> >
> >> > 	Of course I mean what I say. And I say what I mean.
> >>
> >> And I'm one of the many reincarnations of hope, but that doesn't mean
> >> people should ever make decisions based off of that.
> >
> >
> > 	That sounds kinda cryptic so I guess it's aligned with the cryptographic
> > principles of the list.
> 
> Well, the universe sure is cryptic.  But I am just mirroring that what
> you say is hard to believe in a way that is relevant to the
> conversation, assuming we are both speaking dictionary english.


	I listed a bunch of basic facts that you are methodically ignoring. And you keep pretending I don't know what I'm talking about or 'don't mean it'. That's both insulting and a complete waste of time on your part. (and mine)


> >
> > 	because it's not slavery nor 'human trafficking'. Like I said, 'human
> > trafficking' is an euphemism/codeword/propaganda term for prostitution.
> 
> Nah, you have misinformation.  Sex work (prosititution) is selling sex
> for money.  Human trafficking is selling other humans for money.  They
> overlap because most slavery is for prostitution (sex work), 


	nah, you're just repeating propaganda, pretending that prostitution overlaps with 'human trafficking'. 

	of course, whatever alleged problems are there in the prostitution market are the fault of the government(duh!) that makes prostitution 'illegal'. 

	so again, the solution here to whatever alleged problems there are is abolition of government, not more government and more government propaganda (like the one you keep posting)
 

> where the
> money goes to the pimp instead of the woman.  It's not true of all sex
> work.

	same thing. Whatever problems there supposedly are, are the result of government intervention. 


> 
> > 	Alternatively, if the term is supposed to refer to, say, 'illegal'
> > immigrants being taken advantage of, then the obvious solution is the
> > abolition of state borders and the abolition of the insane idea that there's
> > such a thing as 'illegal' immigration.
> 
> I've heard that immigrants will enter slavery in order to get into the
> states.  I don't know a lot about it.  I can imagination abolition of
> borders would reduce that, but we still have slavery for other
> reasons.  I never made my trip to the desert at the southern border.
> 
> How do you feel about breaking coercive and deadly codes of totally
> ridiculous silence?


	such as? 


> In the USA, slavery is hated, and human trafficking is ignored. The
> words are synonymous.

	In the US cesspool slavery is part of the 'law of the land'. Why do you keep ignoring the most basic facts? 

	
> human trafficking is ignored

	
	I don't think so. It's a pretty common government propaganda theme. 


> 
> from dictionary.com:
> slavery:
> - the condition of being enslaved, held, or owned as human chattel or
> property; bondage.
> - a practice or institution that treats or recognizes some human
> beings as the legal property of others.
> [some synonyms listed]
> human trafficking:

> - the illegal practice of procuring or trading in human beings for the
> purpose of prostitution, 

	yeah, first thing that is mentioned is prostitution, thanks form making my point. 

	furthermore what does 'procuring' even mean? Posting an ad for prostitution is 'procuring' of course. 


> forced labor, or other forms of exploitation.
> [no synonyms listed]

	ah yes, prostitution is 'exploitation'. Thanks for making my point, yet again. 


> > 	On the other hand, if taken literally 'human trafficking' would be the
> > opposite of a human right, but like I said it's just propaganda.
> 
> There is no propaganda to working in an organisation where you
> actively rescue people from being confined, controlled, and abused,
> interacting with these people on a regular basis.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to argue this so much.  It's nice that we're not
> yelling.  This is a topic I care a lot about.  Would you rather I
> consider you here a victim of human trafficking, a paid employee of a
> cause, or somebody who has been very misled?


	I am somebody taking your propaganda apart for truth's sake.


> 
> I suppose I'll consider that, until I see a paystub, it's likely
> you've been illegally enslaved to post to this list against your will.


	Ok, you had your fun. Don't start playing the victim when you get treated the way you deserve to be treated. 

	Pay attention : YOU are parroting US fascist propaganda of the 'progressive' kind  and I'm calling your bullshit out. I do this because I'm on the anti-government camp, out of my own free will of course. 


> >> > 	Maybe you shouldn't be promoting the US govt on this list? And painting
> >> > the
> >> > US govt as being opposed to slavery, a preposterous idea.
> >>
> >> There are at least two different US governments:
> >> 1. the words written on paper
> >> 2. the behaviors that people actually engage in
> >> and they're blurry.
> >> On paper, the US govt is firmly opposed to slavery.
> >
> >
> > 	Didn't you read my previous message? The so called US constitution
> > EXPLICITLY ENABLES SLAVERY.
> 
> ow! just trying to defend the tiny freedom avenues we have.  i don't
> see the quote about the constitution in your message now.  i'll try to
> find your email for what message you're talking about.


	If you don't read what I write why do you bother replying. 
	
	Here's my first reply to your propaganda 
	https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2021-February/086600.html
	
	you completely ignored all the facts I mentioned there and in turn made this idiotic reply 

	https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2021-February/086602.html

	"Juan, you don't mean these things you say here." 


        I MEAN what I say.


> 
> i don't see anything about a constitution in the messages i've
> received from you regarding this.  maybe it was dropped somewhere.
> the written laws we discuss outlaw slavery.
> 
> > 	Plus, of course, the whole notion of government and its implementation IS
> > SLAVERY. Taxation being theft, for starters.
> 
> I try to get them rescuing the slaves they acknowledge as enslaved,
> before I point that out to them.  It takes move through a few
> different disciplines of conventional study to make a clear strong
> argument.


	sure sure. The slaves the US govt is saving...


> 
> >> Most people believe in the paper and hate the actions.
> >
> > 	Not sure what you mean. The US 'laws' are a collection of crimes against
> > humanity, and are 'enforced' by the US govt and its supporters. (same is
> > true for any other govt of course)
> 
> I'm just talking about helping victims of abuse.  The fact that it's
> illegal makes it stronger, since laws have effect.


	....


> 
> >> It would be ideal if we could share human trafficking rescue avenues
> >> that are run by anarchists, but if I did that they would get
> >> obliterated by their local government's unwritten behaviors.
> >
> > 	As I think you know the US has the highest incarceration rate on the planet
> > and...then there is this
> >
> > 	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
> >
> > 	oops, that looks a lot closer to actual slavery than 'human trafficking'
> > eh? And who is responsible for 'penal labor'?
> 
> ?? these are obviously both slavery.
> 
> Although enslavement due to trial by jury is still legal for now,
> there are a lot of illegal inhuman things that happen in prisons where
> people are further enslaved.


	yes, so why do you pretend that the US govt and its supporters are opposed to slavery? 


> 
> It's obvious the US government is crummy.  

	crummy? 


> I think you're confusing
> that with whether or not freedom is valuable to discuss, maybe because
> it's hard for you to discuss freedom from ongoing slavery, itself.


	I think you have to stop pretending that I don't know what I'm saying. 


> 
> >> > 	https://humantraffickinghotline.org/national-hotline-overview
> >> > 	
> >> > 	"received $3.5 million through competitive funding through the U.S.
> >> > Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children
> >> > and
> >> > Families, Grant # 90ZV0134-01-00. The project will be financed with
> >> > 71.87%
> >> > of federal funds and 28.13% ($1.37 million) by non-governmental
> >> > sources"
> >> >
> >> > 	of course that '28%' of 'non govt sources' comes from 'private'
> >> > fascists of
> >> > the bill gates-soros kind.
> >>
> >> It's shitty that our avenues are the ones that are "authorised".
> >
> > 	That's not about authorisation but about getting stolen money from
> > taxpayers and dollar holders (slaves) to use it to promote US govt
> > propaganda.
> 
> those enslaved dollar holders often spend their money on things made
> by people who actually have their physical muscle enslaved, possibly
> by severe ongoing physical injury, as opposed to "just" their avenues
> of choice and income.

	
	are you trying to downplay the most basic nature of government, i.e. it being  based on extortion, theft, slavery, murder? 


> 
> > 	People who want to end slavery should be planning how to destroy
> > government, not taking stolen money from government.
> 
> I was thinking of people actively enslaved.  Not just wanting to end it.


	....


> >
> >
> > 	Yeah well. It's obvious to me that indeed professor rat is a govt agent and
> > harkness a trumpofascist(duh). As to you, at least in this case, you are
> > posting US govt propaganda as well.
> 
> All 4 of us.  And that's just 4 tips out of so many icebergs.  (this
> is a united states euphemism for saying there is much much more to the
> situations).


	Yeah well. You indeed are a US government agent now. Not me. 
	
	Plus, I am still waiting for you to point out any lack of logic in what I say. If anything lacks logic here it is the pretense that so called 'NGOs' that are a front for the US govt are not evil. 


> 
> > 	I on the other hand am not posting govcorp propaganda in any shape or form.
> > Au contraire, what I mostly do on this list is tear apart the propaganda
> > other people post.
> 
> Eh, I don't really like bantering, but I guess we'll all be able to
> describe each other accurately if we do it long enough.


	yeah. The characters on the play are pretty well described already anyway. 


> 
> >> The things we're posting help the interests of people with a lot of
> >> money.
> >
> >
> > 	How am I doing that?
> 
> You disrupt community things people say.  It's done pretty commonly.
> Your work bending that towards other disruption is heartening.  It
> often seems the only way we survive =/


	"disrupt community things" 

	In other words, your claim is false, hand-wavy nonsense. 

	Try again?


> 
> >>Those people have probably effectively enslaved us in some
> >> way.  Some of us may be viscerally and highly aware of that being the
> >> case, and that set of people may not be related to the set of people
> >> able to talk about it, but all of us can get government aid for being
> >> abused if we demonstrate real symptoms of abuse.
> >
> > 	....
> 
> ...