Up Front Discussion

[Karl]

Hi Zenaan, thanks so much for your communication.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:36 PM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:

> [Apologies for the top posting - I started doing that in this thread.]
>

I infer there is a norm against that on this list like on most.  My phone
with internet makes bottom-posting hard right now.

Some learn that going to a movie with really high expectations, results
> often in a disappointment, especially with the endless Jewish agenda to
> miscegenate, pornify, glorify violence, and de-white, all of white culture
> (which agenda as many know is well documented by many Jewish sources).
>

I wasn't aware of the Jewish thing and would be interested in seeing this
documentation.

I reread what I wrote and added this: Most movies are disappointing, and
some are blockbusters.  Anybody can make a fan sequel to a blockbuster and
become a youtube star.  If the sequel is crucial, it gets used by everyone,
even if it is only a few minutes long.  I guess I repeat that a lot below.
It's hard to speak in analogy.

Notwithstanding the political and cultural attacks we appear to be
> permanently under, the principle


I think things are hoping to be temporary.  Might be important to relate
around permanent, since that is my fear too.

applies to keep grounded, don't get carried away, take a realistic view of
> the work involved etc - a slow and steady appoach and determination to get
> your project done - it's much better than a flash in the pan which dies out
> before you've barely begun.
>

This sounds wonderful, and would work well in a group.

I'm thinking around any hacker can make a good tool, but they won't reach
the oppressed unless it is eventually normalized.  Jim and I are likely
already surveiled, so things we talk about that stay small and isolated
could get censored for people who need them.

Karl, if a "cautiously positive" message is so upsetting to you, you might
> also struggle with the persistence of intention required to complete the
> work you set out to do.
>

I don't think we are hearing each other here.  The work happening isn't
about my feelings.  I struggle for reasons other than having feelings, but
I can still contribute a little code to projects.

It was possibly unfair for me to release my stress from responding to other
discouraging messages, on your message attempting support.  I hear your
comfort.  I still worry for the project.

Big public projects have many people in them.  I am asking to find others
who are or want to be those people, too.  This makes better persistance.

If you stay the course,

there's every possibility you will bring it to fruition though, so I remain
> cautiously optimistic for the time being...


Jim's running it now.

Forget cautious optimism: if you like an idea or hope for something, get
involved, connect people together, and make it happen faster!  Or it will
happen on its own and you may never learn about it while assuming it might
not (points to blockchained tianmen tank video and active git archive of
ongoing police brutality evidence posted earlier).  What are you trying to
communicate?

IQNets is neither legit, nor illegit -


A lot of resources, like Tor itself, have strong assumptions of not
addressing major public concerns.  Of course they are all legit, but
struggling.  They provide known avenues for compromise without being aware
of it.  It can be hard to make code that works, or even collect public
information together, without stumbling into a situation that results in
that.

it is simply a collection of thoughts and email threads from this list, as
> to how one might go about improving Tor - although hopefully there are
> sufficient ideas somewhere to actually improve Tor (it needs improvement).
> If 'iqnets' still lingers, I even hope to have time next year to have a
> crack at it myself...


Sounds like we need to link that idea list with active Tor forks for
community implementation, or start one.  Do you need help doing that?
Kinda realizing that if you think the idea is silly, disregardable, or
nonurgent, which I receive a lot, that might be a strong "yes I do need
that, many of these software issues have gone unaddressed for years and are
affecting people in serious real danger and i may have been manipulated to
stop this from working somehow, which I do not want at all" expression
which would be right in context but really not very clear.  Maybe a fork is
linked with them somewhere already and I should know that?

Thank you for messaging with me.  It is hard to communicate.

Listen I hope you don't stress about the CC thing - just remember that
> folks need only one copy of an email to be able to read it, and some of us
> prefer one copy (not two) of each email and don't have automatic
> de-duplication, that's all - no biggie.
>

Sounds like errors are okay if I remember the norm.  Among groups of the
severely politically targeted, we have found that sending the same message
a whole mess of times, even when the mailperson's job is to delete it, can
eventually get it through.  How does it land to hear this?

Many folks understand big mood swings, and most have experinced them at
> some stage in our life or another.  How you handle the need to not go too
> wildly up and down on the rush those swings provide, is a matter for you -
> good luck achieving what your heart/Soul truly seeks in your life, and
> remember, if you get confronted, that might be a sign someone is trying to
> help you - may be to see something they think might be good for you to see.


Sorry if I have upset or worried you too much, and thank you for your
tolerance.  I worry more about the distracting spam than the tears.

Good luck and God speed fellow Soul,
>


And to you, Honorable Hero.


> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:59:48AM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > Ehh I read "there may be a chance" prior to what you wrote, which I still
> > see quoted below.  I hear it as assuming low likelihood of what comes
> after.
> >
> > Just looking for collaboration, Zenaan.  I github'd you and found IQNets
> > with its empty codebase: do you guys need help taking that somewhere?
> >
> > Since iqnets replaces tor and has no code in it, it looks pretty legit,
> > although I wouldn't expect that to make sense to anybody.
> >
> > I've calmed down and am remembering to take you out of the To: field this
> > time.  Sorry about that.
> >
> > I've struggled for years against many obstacles to move forward on
> reliable
> > logging and was excited to see Jim's project.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:46 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Seems you misread what I wrote...
> > >
> > > I wrote "this project could have a positive net effect" ...
> > >
> > > Did you misread my words?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:19:43AM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:06 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen at freedbms.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 06:29:30PM -0400, Karl wrote:
> > > > > > Checking to see if anybody is interested in working on this,
> possibly
> > > > > with
> > > > > > me, on the software side.  I don't know you and am half crazy,
> but I
> > > > > still
> > > > > > know some code.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > grarpamp, Jim said the device has room for an SDR.  A generalized
> > > secure
> > > > > > network would also be a great thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have not read most of this list, if that's not obvious.  I read
> > > source
> > > > > > code a lot better than english.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There may be a chance this project could have a positive net
> effect.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <cries>
> > > >
> > > > Zenaan how can you assume in public like this that this project is
> > > > horrible, without any discussion of its merits, on a thread about
> working
> > > > on it with no other replies?
> > > >
> > > > Have I hurt you?  Does this project hurt you?
> > > >
> > > > You collapse all our impact into one "net effect" and say it is
> bad!  I
> > > > have tried to kill myself repeatedly, Zenaan, and it just gets you
> locked
> > > > in a hospital still alive, crying and wishing you could die!  We
> need to
> > > > try to do something with our efforts!
> > > >
> > > > What projects are you working or dreaming of?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > In terms of device, step PRIMARY, is to free you and your users
> from
> > > the
> > > > > clutches of google/apple etc.  For example the Librem 5 may be a
> good
> > > base
> > > > > platform on which to add any daughter board you guys come up
> with...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > At the very least, rooting your mainstream 'tard-phone is likely
> up on
> > > > > your list already, of course.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck,
> > > > >
> > >
>
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